Post on 02-Aug-2018
transcript
Wisconsin Department of Safety and Professional Services
Division of Policy Development 1400 E Washington Ave
PO Box 8366
Madison WI 53708-8366
Phone: 608-266-2112 Web: http://dsps.wi.gov
Email: dsps@wisconsin.gov
Scott Walker, Governor
Laura Gutiérrez, Secretary
PROFESSIONAL LAND SURVEYOR SECTION
Room 121A, 1400 East Washington Avenue, Madison
Contact: Erin Karow (608) 266-2112
July 27, 2017
The following agenda describes the issues that the Professional Land Surveyor Section plans to consider
at the meeting. At the time of the meeting, items may be removed from the agenda. Please consult the
meeting minutes for a record of the actions of the Professional Land Surveyor Section.
AGENDA
9:00 A.M.
OPEN SESSION – CALL TO ORDER – ROLL CALL
A. Adoption of Agenda (1-3)
B. Approval of Minutes of April 6, 2017 (4-6)
C. Administrative Updates
1) Department and Staff Updates
2) Board Members – Term Expiration Dates:
a. Bruce Bowden – 07/01/2014
b. Daniel Fedderly – 07/01/2013
c. Ruth G. Johnson – 07/01/2011
d. Christina Martin – 07/01/2019
D. Legislative/Administrative Rule Matters
1) Update on Pending Legislation and Pending and Possible Rulemaking Projects
E. Wisconsin Society of Land Surveyors Comments Regarding AE-7 (7-10)
F. Speaking Engagement(s), Travel, or Public Relation Request(s)
1) Travel Report from the 2017 NCEES Central/Western Zone Joint Interim Meeting in Denver
Colorado on May 18-19, 2017 – Christina Martin
G. Future Agenda Items
H. Deliberation on Items Added After Preparation of Agenda:
1) Introductions, Announcements and Recognition
2) Election of Officers
3) Appointment of Liaison(s)
4) Delegation of Authorities
5) Administrative Matters
6) Education and Examination Matters
7) Credentialing Matters
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8) Practice Matters
9) Legislative/Administrative Rule Matters
10) Liaison Reports
11) Board Liaison Training and Appointment of Mentors
12) Informational Items
13) Disciplinary Matters
14) Presentations of Petitions for Summary Suspension
15) Petitions for Designation of Hearing Examiner
16) Presentation of Stipulations, Final Decisions and Orders
17) Presentation of Stipulations and Interim Orders
18) Presentation of Proposed Final Decision and Orders
19) Presentation of Interim Orders
20) Petitions for Re-Hearing
21) Petitions for Assessments
22) Petitions to Vacate Orders
23) Requests for Disciplinary Proceeding Presentations
24) Motions
25) Petitions
26) Appearances from Requests Received or Renewed
27) Speaking Engagement(s), Travel, or Public Relation Request(s)
I. Public Comments
CONVENE TO CLOSED SESSION to deliberate on cases following hearing (s. 19.85(1)(a),
Stats.); to consider licensure or certification of individuals (s. 19.85(1)(b), Stats.); to consider
closing disciplinary investigations with administrative warnings (ss. 19.85 (1)(b), and 440.205,
Stats.); to consider individual histories or disciplinary data (s. 19.85 (1)(f), Stats.); and to confer
with legal counsel (s. 19.85(1)(g), Stats.).
J. Credentialing Matters
1) Application Reviews (11-12)
K. Deliberation on Division of Legal Services and Compliance Matters
1) Administrative Warnings
2) Stipulations, Final Decisions and Orders
3) Case Closing(s)
a. 16 LSR 006 (13-16) 4) Monitoring
L. Deliberation of Items Added After Preparation of the Agenda
1) Education and Examination Matters
2) Credentialing Matters
3) Disciplinary Matters
4) Monitoring Matters
5) Professional Assistance Procedure (PAP) Matters
6) Petitions for Summary Suspensions
7) Petitions for Designation of Hearing Examiner
8) Stipulations, Final Decisions and Order
9) Stipulations and Interim Orders
10) Administrative Warnings
11) Review of Administrative Warnings
12) Proposed Final Decision and Orders
13) Matters Relating to Costs/Orders Fixing Costs
14) Case Closings
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15) Board Liaison Training
16) Proposed Interim Orders
17) Petitions for Assessments and Evaluations
18) Petitions to Vacate Orders
19) Remedial Education Cases
20) Motions
21) Petitions for Re-Hearing
22) Appearances from Requests Received or Renewed
M. Consulting with Legal Counsel
RECONVENE TO OPEN SESSION IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING CLOSED SESSION
N. Vote on Items Considered or Deliberated Upon in Closed Session, if Voting is Appropriate
O. Open Session Items Noticed Above not Completed in the Initial Open Session
ADJOURNMENT
NEXT MEETING DATE: OCTOBER 12, 2017
************************************************************************************
MEETINGS AND HEARINGS ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, AND MAY BE CANCELLED
WITHOUT NOTICE.
Times listed for meeting items are approximate and depend on the length of discussion and voting. All meetings
are held at 1400 East Washington Avenue, Madison, Wisconsin, unless otherwise noted. In order to confirm a
meeting or to request a complete copy of the board’s agenda, please call the listed contact person. The board may
also consider materials or items filed after the transmission of this notice. Times listed for the commencement of
disciplinary hearings may be changed by the examiner for the convenience of the parties. Interpreters for the
hearing impaired provided upon request by contacting the Affirmative Action Officer, 608-266-2112.
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Professional Land Surveyor Section
Teleconference/Virtual Meeting Minutes
April 6, 2017
Page 1 of 3
LAND SURVEYOR SECTION
EXAMINING BOARD OF ARCHITECTS, LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS,
PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS, DESIGNERS AND LAND SURVEYORS
TELECONFERENCE/VIRTUAL MEETING MINUTES
April 6, 2017
PRESENT: Daniel Fedderly, Ruth G. Johnson, Christina Martin
EXCUSED: Bruce Bowden
STAFF: Brittany Lewin, Executive Director; Nifty Lynn Dio, Bureau Assistant; and other Department
Staff
CALL TO ORDER
Daniel Fedderly, Vice Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m. A quorum of three (3) members was
confirmed.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
MOTION: Ruth G. Johnson moved, seconded by Christina Martin, to adopt the agenda as published.
Motion carried unanimously.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
MOTION: Christina Martin moved, seconded by Ruth G. Johnson, to approve the minutes of
January 5, 2017 as published. Motion carried unanimously.
ADMINISTRATIVE UPDATES
Delegation of Authority to the Monitoring Liaison and Department Monitor
MOTION: Ruth G. Johnson moved, seconded by Christina Martin, to adopt the ‘Roles and
Authorities Delegated to the Monitoring Liaison and Department Monitor’ document as
presented. Motion carried unanimously.
SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS, TRAVEL, OR PUBLIC RELATION REQUESTS
2017 NCEES Zone Meeting
MOTION: Daniel Fedderly moved, seconded by Ruth G. Johnson, to designate Christina Martin to
attend the 2017 NCEES Central Zone Interim Meeting, and to authorize travel. Motion
carried unanimously.
MOTION: Daniel Fedderly moved, seconded by Ruth G. Johnson, to request Brittany Lewin attend
the 2017 NCEES Central Zone Interim Meeting, and to authorize travel. Motion carried
unanimously.
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Professional Land Surveyor Section
Teleconference/Virtual Meeting Minutes
April 6, 2017
Page 2 of 3
CLOSED SESSION
MOTION: Christina Martin moved seconded by Ruth G. Johnson, to convene to closed session to
deliberate on cases following hearing (s. 19.85(1)(a), Stats.); to consider licensure or
certification of individuals (s. 19.85(1)(b), Stats.); to consider closing disciplinary
investigations with administrative warnings (ss. 19.85 (1)(b), and 440.205, Stats.); to
consider individual histories or disciplinary data (s. 19.85 (1)(f), Stats.); and to confer
with legal counsel (s. 19.85(1)(g), Stats.). Daniel Fedderly, Vice Chair read the language
of the motion. The vote of each member was ascertained by voice vote. Roll Call Vote:
Daniel Fedderly-yes; Ruth G. Johnson-yes; Christina Martin-yes. Motion carried
unanimously.
The Section convened into Closed Session at 9:15 a.m.
RECONVENE TO OPEN SESSION
MOTION: Christina Martin moved, seconded by Ruth G. Johnson, to reconvene in Open Session at
9:42 a.m. Motion carried unanimously.
VOTE ON ITEMS CONSIDERED OR DELIBERATED UPON IN CLOSED SESSION,
IF VOTING IS APPROPRIATE
MOTION: Ruth G. Johnson moved, seconded by Christina Martin, to affirm all Motions made and
Votes taken in Closed Session. Motion carried unanimously.
(Be advised that any recusals or abstentions reflected in the closed session motions stand for the purposes of the
affirmation vote.)
DELIBERATION ON CREDENTIALING MATTERS
Application Reviews
Nicholas Brey
MOTION: Ruth G. Johnson moved, seconded by Christina Martin, to table the application of
Nicholas Brey, and request additional documentation regarding experience. Motion
carried unanimously.
DELIBERATION ON DIVISION OF LEGAL SERVICES AND COMPLIANCE (DLSC) MATTERS
Administrative Warning
16 LSR 003 – J.G.
MOTION: Ruth G. Johnson moved, seconded by Christina Martin, to issue an Administrative
Warning in the matter of DLSC Case No. 16 LSR 003. Motion carried unanimously.
BOARD TRAINING REVIEW
The Section reviewed training information relating to Public Records and Ethics and Lobbying requirements at
this meeting.
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Professional Land Surveyor Section
Teleconference/Virtual Meeting Minutes
April 6, 2017
Page 3 of 3
ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Ruth G. Johnson moved, seconded by Daniel Fedderly, to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 9:45 a.m.
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State of Wisconsin Department of Safety & Professional Services
AGENDA REQUEST FORM 1) Name and Title of Person Submitting the Request: 2) Date When Request Submitted:
7/21/2017 Erin Karow, Executive Director on behalf of Dan Fedderly Items will be considered late if submitted after 12:00 p.m. on the deadline
date which is 8 business days before the meeting
3) Name of Board, Committee, Council, Sections: Professional Land Surveyor Section
4) Meeting Date: 5) Attachments: 6) How should the item be titled on the agenda page? 7/27/2017 ~ Yes
D No Wisconsin Society of Land Surveyors comments regarding AE-7
7) Place Item in : 8) Is an appearance before the Board being 9) Name of Case Advisor(s), if required:
~ Open Session scheduled?
D Closed Session N/A
D Yes (Fill out Board Aggearance R~uest) IZJ No
10) Describe the issue and action that should be addressed:
The section will be discussing the comments received from WSLS, and consider initiating rule promulgation.
Possible motion language:
MOTION: Board Member Name moved, seconded by Board Member Name, to request DSPS staff draft a Scope Statement revising/creating citation, if known relating to topic. Motion carried unanimously.
Or
MOTION: Board Member Name moved, seconded by Board Member Name, to request DSPS staff draft a Scope Statement revising/creating citation, if known relating to topic and designate Board Member Name to advise DSPS staff. Motion carried unanimously.
11) Authorization Signature of person making this request Date
ifu:n,if ~ z,PtaC~,7
Supervisor (if required) Date
ifu:n,if ~ ;:,P?Pc~7 Executive Director signature (indicates approval to add post agenda deadline item to agenda) Date
Directions for including supporting documents: 1. This form should be attached to any documents submitted to the agenda. 2. Post Agenda Deadline items must be authorized by a Supervisor and the Policy Development Executive Director. 3. If necessary, provide original documents needing Board Chairperson signature to the Bureau Assistant prior to the start of a meeting.
Revised 1212016
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From: Towne, Jason
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 10:01 AM
Subject: FW: A-E7 points to change or discuss
See below. Here is your chance to have input on A-E7. Please reply directly to Joe, he would like comments
before Friday.
From: Joseph Granberg [mailto:joe@ ]
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 7:40 PM
To: 'Brian Halling'; 'Doug Zahler'; 'Ty Dodge'; 'Daniel Kugel'; 'Louie Filkins'; murphland@ ; 'Fran
Bleskacek'; mark.netterlund@ ; 'Edwin Flanum'; 'Steve Geiger'; 'Michael Markee'; 'Martin, Christina
- DOT'; 'Carlson, Thomas'; hetfeldc@ ; 'Douglas R. Crane, PLS'; Towne, Jason; jrusch@ ;
'JOEL A. BRANDT'; 'Jim Swanson'; 'Jerry Ripley'; 'Ron Hoffmann'
Subject: A-E7 points to change or discuss
Hi all
Attached is a bullet point list of my grievances with the “new” and / or revised A-E7. As you may be aware, both
Ed Flanum and myself are now on the WSLS legislative committee. I am also on the Ethics, Standards of practice
and survey map review committee. Ed and I are two of about 14 people on the legislative committee working to
adjust or modify A-E7.
Please open up the word document and ad your own items that you may want to see changed or amended.
Don’t be afraid to remove some of mine on the list if you do not agree with what I have written. The purpose of
completing and compiling the lists is to get a cross section of opinions to take to the WSLS legislative
committee. We would all like the statutes to represent a general consensus of what we, as a professional group,
think should be the rules that we need to follow. Everybody’s list will not look the same. Even if you could
spend just a few minutes to send me your opinions of what needs to be changed would be very helpful.
I know many more surveyors out there that are not on this e-mail simply because I do not have their e-mail
address. Please forward this to others and have them return their thoughts in bullet point form to me so that I
can forward them to the person leading this committee. This is your chance to put down what you see as issues
with the current A-E7. The bullet points will be compiled to see which ones need addressing from the largest
segment of the surveyors that have to deal with A-E7 on a daily basis.
If possible please try to have comments back to me before Friday so that I can forward them on to Peter Lewis.
Thank you.
JOE GRANBERG
Professional Land Surveyor WI & MN
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A-E7 ISSUES TO TALK ABOUT AND MODIFY ( or not )
A-E7.01 Scope - Do we want to apply a standard for property surveys to “every” survey that is
completed? What if we are surveying an easement?
A-E7.01(2) – Waiver – I think we should rethink this one. By requiring the client to sign on the map may
violate privacy concerns with the client. I do like having it on the map. It puts everyone on notice (
including the client ) what was waived for the purposes of the survey. That said, I know it is an issue for
some and I don’t want to put the surveyor or the client in a tough spot.
A-E7.02 Survey report – Why do we have to limit the survey report to a map that has been recorded and
filed within the last 6 years? If a plat or CSM is tied to the same corners that are currently being used,
should it be up the surveyors professional discretion to make the determination of whether the original
markers are still in place and in their original position?
A-E7.05(3)- Curve data shall be shown by any 3 of the following should be changed to “at least any three
of the following”
A-E7.05(4) – Remove the part about abbreviations on the map. It’s confusing to some people because
they think that you can no longer abbreviate anything. It was not intended to be read this way. For
instance: a bearing of N32°14’56”E should not have to be spelled out, North 32 degrees 14 minutes 56
seconds East. From the beginning of time the second oldest profession (yes surveying) has used
degrees. Even in other countries they use degrees and / or decimal degrees. If someone is reading a
map and doesn’t know what degrees ° minutes ‘ and seconds “ are on the map, they don’t know what
they are looking at anyway. Why burn the extra time, ink and paper to satisfy no one?
A-E7.05(5)- Remove the requirement to show observed evidence of possession or use by others in the
parcel or across any perimeter line of the property. This one has unnecessary multiple liability’s for
surveyors. What if we are only surveying on line of the property? What if the use does not leave
indications in the field for surveyors to observe or identify. What if we are not sure if structures, paths
or items belong to our client or a neighbor? A surveyor should show any structures, driveways, fences
or fence corners or possible use by others that may affect ownership, but sometimes use by others is
not obvious enough to be seen, especially occasional use or non obvious use. This portion of A-E7 open
surveyors up to all kinds liability from land owners and attorneys looking to sue because something was
not shown. Our job is to retrace the boundary. We do have a good working knowledge of ownership
and possession and encroachments. Probably as good or better than most attorneys. But we cannot be
held to the statute the way is currently written.
A-E7.05(7) – Identify the person or entity for whom the survey was made. I have had this issue only a
couple times but I know there are other surveyors that do work for some companies that do not want
their name associated with the survey work. There are privacy laws to consider and I think this statute
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may be a violation of the privacy laws. Even if it is not, we should not put the surveyor at risk and
require the surveyor to announce who he is working for. That said, it is on every map I do.
A-E7.08(c) – Remove all of this or rewrite this section. There are too many variables across the state
that need to be considered for this. At times, the way this section is written is perfectly viable. Other
times it is a huge waste of time and in many cases the county surveyor does not want additional tie
sheets coming in to add confusion to the already existing monuments and ties that he or she has to deal
with.
This is not an A-E7 agenda item but it ties in well. We have to stop making rules and doing surveys to
satisfy other surveyors. We need to remember that we work for the public and our work that we
produce benefits the public and the future users of that information. We need to have a discussion
about whether we have a “standard of practice” or a “best practices” recommendation. We need to not
have some segments of our surveying profession trying to make everybody else survey and draft to
“their preferences”. We need to not forget that it is ok to be profitable. Profit is not a dirty word. That
said, there needs to be an expectation that when a surveyor does his or her survey work, that certain
things have been attended to in the process and a “reasonable” amount of investigation and measuring
has been done to adequately ensure that the survey is correct and has accounted for those things which
may affect the survey.
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