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AEE Episode 506: How To Get Into A Flow State When You Learn
English With Kevin Conwell
Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 506: “How to Get Into A Flow
State When You Learn English With Kevin Conwell”
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast, downloaded more than 16
million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection ™ with your
American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the ‘English Adventurer’, and Michelle
Kaplan, the ‘New York Radio Girl,’ coming to you from Boston and New
York City, USA.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: And to instantly download your transcript from today’s episode go to
AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts, AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Today you’ll meet our guest, Kevin, and we’ll talk about ways you can
challenge yourself in your English learning to get into the best state of
mind for maximum retention.
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Announcer: Today we have a guest on All Ears English. Our guest today is fueled most
by culture, music and personal development. He’s the creator of “The Feel
Good English” podcast where he teaches English through life and business
skills based on ideas from inspiring books and TED talks. His background is
in psychology and language learning. Our guest today is Kevin Conwell so
let’s welcome Kevin to the show.
Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Kevin, welcome to All Ears English, thank you so much for joining
us. How are you today?
Kevin: I’m great, Lindsay. How are you doing?
Lindsay: Welcome back. Kevin you are here from “Feel Good English” and you
were on our show way back in July of 2014 for episode 158 where you told
our listeners about how to use Facebook groups to find English speaking
friends. By the way, Kevin that episode was really popular. Thank you.
[laughter]
Kevin: Very cool, I’m glad it helped. Yeah (yes), I try to be as useful as possible.
Lindsay: Yes, yes.
Kevin: Sure.
Lindsay: Absolutely. Very good, Kevin. Thank you. You’re back today to talk about
a new topic which is really in line with the website, your new website and
your new podcast that you’re creating and you’re going tell us about “self-
awareness” today and how our listeners can use “self-awareness” to
become better English learners, is that right?
Kevin: Yeah (yes), you know it’s something that I have seen over the years of
teaching and being around so many students is you have to learn how to
enjoy the process of learning English and becoming better and like you
talked about connecting with people. You really have to know what works
for you.
Lindsay: Yes.
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Kevin: And what you enjoy and - and just keep doing those things and so we’ll
talk about that today and “self-awareness” might be a new topic or a new
word for some of the people out there.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes).
Kevin: But we’ll get into it.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), very cool Kevin. So let’s just get right into it now then. So the
word “self-awareness” as you said I feel like this word is a very kind of
western notion, the concept of ““self-awareness”” so for our listeners who
maybe haven’t heard of this term or haven’t been interested in this term
in the past what does it mean in practical terms when we say “self-
awareness”?
Kevin: So yeah (yes) in and just as far as the word “awareness” this might even be
new for some people, “awareness” is to be able to recognize something or
to be able to see something.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: So if you say “self-awareness”, it’s to be able to just see something inside
of you or to even feel something inside of you.
Lindsay: Ooo I like that. I like that. And we know that you know when we talk
about very successful people, people who perform at the highest levels in
business and sports they know about this and they tune into a very high
level so I think this is great. Well, let’s just get right into this, Kevin. I think
today you’re going to offer our listeners three core tips, practical tips on
how they can use “self-awareness” to reach to that advanced level. What
can they do, Kevin?
Kevin: So great first let me start with a quote.
Lindsay: Okay.
Kevin: This quote comes from a guy named Gary Vaynerchuk, he’s a marketer
and entrepreneur, he is a very outspoken guy.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
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Kevin: He’s big on this topic of “self-awareness” especially in business.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: And what we want to tie this into today is language learning so the quote
is this “Self-awareness allows people to recognize what things they do best
so that they can go hard on those aspects of their life. It also helps you
accept your weaknesses.”
Lindsay: Ooo, I like that. I like that. Okay. So Gary Vaynerchuk is a big thought
leader in the online business community, right? And so he has some
insight so maybe he knows what he’s talking about here. [laughter]
Kevin: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). I would say so and that is what he does. He studies
people and he – and he knows you know – he’s a speaker. He’s a big
public speaker and sees all of these people these days trying to do things
with business and what not that he thinks is maybe not for them but they
think they should be doing that but maybe that is not for them. Maybe
they should figure out more that is right for them. They should be
“aware”. They should recognize more what’s good for them.
Lindsay: Oh I love that concept. We had a guest on the show about a year and half
ago, her name was Laura Garnett and she talked about the “Zone of
Genius” and I think that would fall into this too. Really recognizing your
strengths and your weaknesses and trying to build your career or your
activities around what you do uniquely well, better than everyone else but
Kevin I want to hear from you today so let’s get straight into it. Let’s get
into your three tips for our listeners, I mean how can our listeners use the
concept of knowing ourselves looking inward to become better English
learners?
Kevin: Sure, so let’s start with a very practical tip first. What I want the listeners
to do is go into Google and search this word, “flow”. Flow is spelled F L O
W.
Lindsay: Yes.
Kevin: And what you’ll find is there is a thought leader in this area he is from
Hungary. His name is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
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Lindsay: No one can pronounce his name. It’s okay.
Kevin: Way too difficult and just start researching this topic of flow a little bit.
And what this means is “flow” is when you are doing an activity and the
activity is for – in simplifying it – the activity is “right” for you. It’s the
“right” level. So what that means is you’re going to feel good while doing
something. You’re going to feel motivated. You’re going to feel energized.
This comes from finding activities that are a little bit challenging for you
but not too challenging. It’s not too difficult also on the other hand it’s not
too easy.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: So which means it’s not boring, it’s not frustrating, it’s just a little bit
challenging for you and this is going to help you find activities that will
help you start to improve your English better mostly because you’ll be
enjoying what you’re doing and you’ll be learning from these enjoyable
experiences so that’s the first step. Just start learning about this idea for
“flow”.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Hey (Hi) guys, the transcripts are back because you have been asking for
them. You can get a professionally made transcript of today’s episode
when you got AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts, that’s
AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts.
[Instrumental]
Lindsay: Okay I like that, I like that and then we are we going to translate that into
specific activities, is that coming in the next tip or should we cover that
now like if our listeners – how can they find material, how do they know
that they are in “flow”? I mean how do we look for these materials?
Kevin: Lindsay, you are quite smart. That’s exactly the next step.
Lindsay: Oh, thank you. [laughter]
Kevin: So that’s the step two. So once we get this idea of how we can find
activities that are good for us and being “aware” of what makes us feel
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these emotions of energized, motivated and happy and just really paying
attention to these feelings that we’re experiencing while we are doing
these activities. We will start looking for a variety of activities that we can
do to experiment with and I’m a big believer in technology so you’re
listening to this – your listeners are listening to this podcast now so they
obviously are familiar with some technologies and going online and finding
places to speak with people or you know even watching certain videos or
watching certain content or going into certain chat rooms or whatever.
There’s so many options and just kind of trying different things out.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: And looking for these emotions that they will learn from studying a little
bit about “flow”.
Lindsay: Ooo, I like it.
Kevin: And this is big. This isn’t something you do in a day or an hour.
Lindsay: Yes.
Kevin: Like this is something can take weeks, you know and it’s experimenting
with different activities and seeing what works and not thinking that you
have to do this or you have to do that or you have to sit in a class room
and do this and read this book or you have to study grammar for hours or
that the only way to pass certain assessment tests is to get really deep into
grammar. It’s not for everyone. You have to be “aware”. You have to
recognize what works for you.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: And those activities are out there.
Lindsay: I love that Kevin that is fantastic so again so just to make sure it’s clear for
our listeners we are looking for something that is challenging but not too
challenging and not of course not boring. It should be somewhere in
between where we are striving, it’s not easy for us but it’s not impossible.
Right?
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Kevin: Exactly. It’s that “sweet spot”. It’s a “sweet spot” of finding something.
You’re going to have a little bit of courage, a little bit of confidence to put
yourself in these situations.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: But it should challenge you, I mean if your listeners think of something,
you know let’s say they play the piano or something like that.
Lindsay: Okay, Kevin, so what’s that example if we are playing piano? How do we
find “flow” for example?
Kevin: So imagine you’re a piano player taking another example not learning
English so you’re a piano player and you’re pretty good. You’re at the
intermediate level and you can play songs pretty well. The “right” state,
the state of “flow” or where you would want to be, what would keep you
progressing and enjoying what you’re doing would be finding somebody
who is just a little bit better than you and being able to practice with this
person.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: So you can kind of move up to their level.
Lindsay: Oh yeah (yes), I love that. There is so many examples. I remember when I
used to play a lot of tennis, this always happened. You wanted to play
with that person who was just a little bit better than you. But Kevin this is
a discipline, constantly searching for something that’s harder and
challenging ourselves. I mean how can we get ourselves to do this
everyday? How can we push ourselves?
Kevin: You know I think what needs to happen is you need to, just be patient for
let’s say a month and give yourself the time to try this out and see where
you get to in a month. What keeps us motivated in language learning is
seeing progress. We see that we are getting better. That’s what will keep
us going so it doesn’t come in a day but it comes with time and if you find
these experiences and these types of techniques that keep you interested
enough and then you just wait a little bit to actually see yourself getting
better by getting feedback from somebody or realizing that you’re
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understanding English better online or on TV and having these little signals
like wow my English is improving. This will keep you going so have
patience and wait for the progress to come.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes). No, totally. I love that idea, Kevin. I think this is really
resonating (really resonates) with a lot of our listeners because a lot of our
listeners are stuck on that plateau, right, that famous plateau, the
intermediate plateau.
Kevin: Sure.
Lindsay: Trying to break through to being natural and fluent in English but they
can’t find a way and I think what you’re saying to us today, is that we need
to look into ourselves. The problem is not our teachers or what we are
doing well it’s actually what we are doing but first looking into ourselves,
are we challenging ourselves, right, take the responsibility on ourselves.
Kevin: Sure and there are so many ways. I’ll go on to the third step.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: Of what your listeners can do.
Lindsay: Sounds good.
Kevin: And I will give you an example of how this worked for me so once you find
these activities that work for you, I want you “to go all in”, I mean put all
of your efforts into these activities.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: To give an example of how open this is, for me when I was living in Brazil
with a very big goal of becoming a fluent Portuguese speaker, what I
enjoyed was learning Portuguese through real conversations and
interactions with Brazilians there and this was most of the time at parties
or barbeques or things like that.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
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Kevin: So it was a fun environment however it wasn’t that easy to go and try to
speak and try to communicate especially when I was learning it. You feel
dumb sometimes, you feel stupid but…
Lindsay: [laughter]
Kevin: That was my learning environment and I said okay this is where I’m going
to learn, this is where I’m going to become fluent and so you know weekly
I would go to these parties and I’d put myself out there meaning I would
risk, you know I would risk looking stupid.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: To you know improve and to constantly communicate and practice and try
and make jokes and you know come up with a lot of stupid words of
course, everybody is teaching me, you know ridiculous words.
Lindsay: Right, right for sure.
Kevin: But that was my “flow state”, it was inspiring, it was challenging and it was
not too difficult, not too easy and you know over time you know I’m
talking months there would be progress and I would all of a sudden say
wow this is becoming easier. This is cool and then you would go into more
deeper (deeper) conversations and you just keep progressing like that.
Lindsay: Right. I love that. And not only that but we also feel more alive when we
are in this “flow state”, right, we are really alive. You know when we hit
this level of complacency we start to get bored and we start to get dull to
the world and the world becomes dull to us, right, because we’re not
feeling that challenge. We are not feeling that aliveness inside of us. So I
think for our listeners you know if you’re feeling bored not only with your
English learning but just with life in general, mix it up. Start pushing
yourself and get into that “flow state” and you’ll see it extending out to
other areas of your life, right Kevin?
Kevin: No, that’s awesome, yeah (yes), and feeling alive is a perfect way to say it.
You know what’s the opposite of that – think of you sitting in a classroom
with a book feeling close to death, you know you’re almost dead like this is
horrible and people probably felt that way so feel alive.
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Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: Those activities are out there, just look for them, put in the effort of
finding the activities more than putting in the effort, you know studying in
English or that word study, whatever that means.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Kevin: But sure.
Lindsay: Oh, I love that Kevin. Thank you so much for coming on today and talking
about this concept of really we have been talking today about how to feel
alive when we learn English and I love that concept that is going to
resonate with our listeners so much, Kevin. I have a feeling that you’re
talking a lot about how to do this over at your new blog, right, Feel Good
English. So can you tell us how to find you online and how to check out
your new podcast and your website and what you’re doing.
Kevin: Sure, yeah (yes), you simply go to Feel Good English Podcast, this is
something new that I’m doing and basically what I’m going to be doing is
talking about these types of ideas and using books and TED talks from
professional and thought leaders in these areas to really help you or help
the learners become stronger, more positive English learners with the idea
of feeling more alive in their learning so feelgoodenglish.com is where you
can find everything that I do or go on to iTunes and look for Feel Good
English, you’ll find the podcast there and start listening and learning and
that’s it.
Lindsay: [laughter] Very cool. Very good. So I would encourage you guys to go on
over to there if this episode kind of hit home for you if you fell like this
strikes a chord with you, if you want to feel more alive when learning
English and you want more ideas on how to do that, go over and check out
what Kevin is doing over there and subscribe to his new podcast as well.
So Kevin, thanks again for coming on the show today, it’s been great to see
you on the show again.
Kevin: Awesome, Lindsay. It’s been great being here and thank you for making
me feel alive.
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Lindsay: [laughter] You are very welcome. And same to you Kevin. I’ll see you
soon.
Kevin: Alright, bye bye.
Lindsay: Thanks, bye.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Thanks so much for listening to All Ears English and if you need a seven or
higher on your IELTS exam to achieve your life vision then our “Insider
Method” can get you there. Start with our free video series master class,
get video one now at AllEarsEnglish.com/INSIDER and if you believe in
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AEE Episode 507: Is It Common In English? Why There Is No Easy
Answer.
Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 507: “Is It Common in English?
Why There Is No Easy Answer.”
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast, downloaded more than 16
million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection with your
American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the ‘English Adventurer’, and Michelle
Kaplan, the ‘New York Radio Girl,’ coming to you from Boston and New
York City, USA.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: And to instantly download your transcript from today’s episode go to
AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts, AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts.
[Instrumental]
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Announcer: One of our listeners asked how to know if a term is common in English or
not, today get eight questions to ask yourself to find out if a word or an
expression is right for you.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Guys we know a lot of you listen to All Ears English to build better
relationships at work that is what we are here to help you with and you
can take it to the next level with our free Charisma Master Class. Go to
AllEarsEnglish.com/charisma to start building charisma for work today.
[Instrumental]
Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Michelle, how’s it going today? How you feelin’ (feeling)?
Michelle: Hey (Hi) Lindsay, I’m doing pretty well, pretty well, getting back on
schedule but everything is good.
Lindsay: I know because you just came back from India a couple of weeks ago and
then you had a weekend in Burlington. It’s so funny that we were both in
Burlington, Vermont this weekend.
Michelle: We were but we missed each other.
Lindsay: I know we didn’t have a chance to have coffee. You reached out but I was
busy doing something else but anyways yeah (yes) Burlington Vermont.
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: Could we recommend that to our listeners, Michelle?
Michelle: I loved it. I really loved it.
Lindsay: I loved it too, Michelle. Lake Champlain, huge lake and just beautiful,
beautiful setting.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes), I love the downtown area. I just liked, I don't know,
it was very peaceful but at that same time a lot of things to do and I really
enjoyed it.
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Lindsay: Hmm. Yeah (yes) guys so if you’re in the New England area visiting maybe
you’re in Boston. From Boston, it’s about a 4-hour drive. From New York,
you guys flew up there from New York, right?
Michelle: Yeah (yes). We flew. It’s like a 2 second flight, like you get on the flight
and then you get off.
Lindsay: [laughter]
Michelle: It might have actually been 2 seconds. That’s the actually time.
Lindsay: What?
Michelle: No, it took about 45 minutes.
Lindsay: No snacks? No time for snacks? I always like snacks on the plane.
Michelle: A small snack. Yes.
Lindsay: Okay, good.
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: [laughter] Anyways guys, if you’re in New England or the Northeastern
area, a great little kind of iconic vacation spot any season of the year
maybe you want to go up with a partner, a little romantic weekend, I
would highly recommend Burlington, Vermont. So…
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: Alright. Cool, Michelle. What are we talking about today?
Michelle: Oh well today, we are talking about a listener question.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: Regarding you know how common certain phrases are.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s true. So we did an episode back, episode 485 just a few
weeks ago and we taught a couple phrases like “cake walk” and “a piece of
cake”.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
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Lindsay: And one of our listeners listened to that episode and wrote in with
another question with a follow up question and we really think that this
question applies to all of our listeners so we want to address that today
and give you guys kind of a framework of how to think about this and the
question is from Rea from Japan. Michelle, I know I always ask you to do
this but I hope it’s okay if you don’t mind?
Michelle: It’s totally fine.
Lindsay: Okay. Would you …
Michelle: “Hi, my name is Rie from Japan.” Hi Rie. “I always enjoy your podcast.”
Thank you Rie.
Lindsay: Thank you.
Michelle: “But to tell you the truth I’m a little confused by this episode. After
listening to this episode, I asked some native speaker if they use “piece of
cake” and “cake walk” in daily life. Some of them answered that “piece of
cake” is not common but on the other hand the others said that they use
this idiom as a common phrase.” Hmm. “And some people don’t even
know the word “cake walk”. Is it a generational or a regional matter? I’d
be happy if you answered my question. Looking forward to hearing from
you.” Thank you for your questions. Can we really quickly give a brief
explanation of “cake walk” and – or “piece of cake?
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s a good question, Michelle. A good point because not all
of our listeners have listened to episode 485 so let’s …
Michelle: But you should. But you should.
Lindsay: Listen to them all. [laughter] So let’s do it. So what does “cake walk” mean
Michelle?
Michelle: It’s like something is like pretty easy like no trouble. Like oh yeah (yes),
like I don't know [laughter]
Lindsay: It’s a cake walk right? So you know so teaching a kid to speak English is
“cake walk” actually it’s not. I’m taking care of my two-year-old niece here
in New Hampshire this weekend.
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Michelle: Ahhh.
Lindsay: You know taking care of a kid actually is not a “cake walk”.
Michelle: Yup (yes), yup (yes).
Lindsay: Taking care of a two-year-old is a piece of cake and “piece of cake” means
the same thing as “cake walk” that was basically the point from that
episode so they both mean – they are both a way of saying that something
is pretty easy, right?
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: I think that in that episode we said that we don’t use “piece of cake” as
much umm we said that we use “cake walk” a bit more often, right
Michelle?
Michelle: Ahh I believe that is what we said but yeah (yes) I think Rie I mean I’m
really impressed by your questions especially that you asked about it’s
generational or regional you know matter right?
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: I think it’s really good that you’re thinking that way because you’ve
realized that it’s much more complex than just saying it is common or not.
Right?
Lindsay: Exactly. I think Rie you are exactly on the right track. I mean here is the
fact. The fact is that everyone has their own language style, you know,
and to tell you the truth here at All Ears English, we’re presenting you guys
with our style, m’kay (okay).
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: You know Michelle and I, we both – we don’t have strong accents. M’kay
(okay).
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: You know we are both from I guess the east coast, right Michelle you’re
from Maryland?
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Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: And I’m from New Hampshire.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: And our lifestyle, how you would you describe our lifestyle Michelle?
Michelle: Umm we are kind of like urban lifestyle, aright?
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: We like city life and you know we are both from you know living in this
northeastern region.
Lindsay: Right.
Michelle: We are both fast paced, what else Lindsay?
Lindsay: Well, we are both educated so we both have master’s degrees so these
are all aspects that make up the way we speak. Okay? They can’t be
ignored so again, we’re telling you guys what’s common in our world but
someone else who maybe grew up in the South and you know maybe lives
in a small, rural town would disagree with some of the things that we say,
right, Michelle?
Michelle: Right. Absolutely. I think Rie you’re right, it’s everything and you do have
to think about is it a generational phrase sometimes we’ll teach a phrase
and Lindsay or I will say that sound more like something our parents would
say, right?
Lindsay: Right, yeah (yes).
Michelle: Umm and then regional phrases for sure. So much it’s just not – there is
no easy answer, right, and there are certain you know.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: Scientific ways that you can look at it and there is certain research done, a
lot of research done to these questions.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes).
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Michelle: But like as far as linguistics goes but umm you know I don't know there’s
just so much that goes into it.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so let’s talk about what goes into it, right, we just made a quick
list here to prepare for today’s episode to talk about the things that our
listeners need to think about when they hear from us or they hear from
someone else that something is common and I think everything we hear
we should always be critical about, right, we should just blindly trust
anyone because again as we said it is coming from our urban, fast paced,
city lifestyle as educated professionals, right, but that’s not going to be
necessarily common in everyone’s circles, right Michelle?
Michelle: Right, right. Young professionals also right? Like, like…
Lindsay: Young exactly. Yeah (yes) that’s the other thing, we’re – you know I’m 34
and Michelle you’re 28?
Michelle: 22, no I’m just joking. [laughter]
Lindsay: [laughter]
Michelle: I’m 28.
Lindsay: 22, oh my gosh. [inaudible0:07:57.4] [laughter]
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), so let’s just run down our list that we came up with of the
things that our listeners would want to think about or the reasons why
maybe you know we would tell you guys that “cake walk” is common and
you might go and ask another native speaker and they might say oh no
that’s not common at all, they are wrong. It’s not that we’re wrong, or not
that they’re wrong it’s just that these are the things that would make that
difference.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: Okay?
Michelle: Exactly, exactly.
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Lindsay: So what’s the first thing, a huge thing is what?
Michelle: Gender.
Lindsay: Gender. And we have talked about how this comes up more in kind of
language functions you know things like saying like oh just – using the
word just.
Michelle: Oh that’s a big one.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) like oh I just want a or I will just have a dark – a small dark
roast, right? like just. I don’t hear that with men as much.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Exactly there’s so many – huh – that’s why this is
such an interesting field in general, linguistics, it’s just so fascinating
because there is (are) so many different pieces of it and that’s what we are
talking about now so sorry. Tangent.
Lindsay: It is. It’s a good thing that we love our field. It is so interesting, endlessly
fascinating. I mean that’s what makes this show so much fun to record.
Michelle: Yeah (yes) to really dig deep and think about all of these things.
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Lindsay: Exactly and the next factor is what Michelle?
Michelle: Umm urban versus rural versus suburban.
Lindsay: Right. Even suburban, you know I remember umm at one point I was
dating someone who was from the Worcester area and I was living in
Cambridge and that person had some different language choices being
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from kind of a suburban area versus kind of a more urban Boston area.
Isn’t that interesting?
Michelle: Right, exactly. I mean we both live in cities and it’s just you know could be
very different.
Lindsay: A bit different exactly. And then there are other subcultures, if we want to
get really specific. You know like gay subculture.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: There is a certain set of language for gay people and then even this is a
crazy example but Harley Davidson is like a kind of people that ride these
Harley Davidson bikes.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: And they have their own language, right so language culture.
Michelle: Right, right. Absolutely, I mean in language – I mean I even think that this
is going to sound funny but I think I have my own language with my
husband.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: You know how you develop a subcultures - I’m thinking that even
extremely small things even with the family right you create your own
words.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), Mhh hhm.
Michelle: You have your own way of talking, right?
Lindsay: Or that you have an expression in New Hope, Pennsylvania, right?
Michelle: Yeah (yes), exactly. You develop your own little language. I mean you
have the basics of cores, right, but everybody develops
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: A little slang or a - different idioms for their own subculture.
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Lindsay: Mhh hhm. And most of those are based on your own personal
experiences with the people in your family. Anyways let’s go a little bit
more broad now, one other thing that I thought was interesting, what was
that next one, Michelle?
Michelle: The next one is your upbringing and the language that your parents use.
Lindsay: My God, I can see this week I’m here with my 2-year-old niece and my
mother, the three of us are – we are taking care – the two us are taking
care of her and my mom speaks to Emery, my niece, in a very specific way.
She’s going to pick up on that so quickly and that’s going to become her
way of speaking from a young age. You know so a lot of the way we speak
depends on the way our parents spoke to us.
Michelle: Right, right. It makes me think of, oh gosh, umm I love my in-laws. I love
you guys. [laughter]
Lindsay: [Laughter]
Michelle: It makes me think of my husband would say like when we were first dating
instead of saying what do you, Lindsay, what do you call that piece of –
when you go on trip and put your clothes in something to carry it?
Lindsay: Luggage or a suitcase?
Michelle: Right. Exactly. So my husband would call it a valise.
Lindsay: What?
Michelle: Okay.
Lindsay: Wow. Is that from French?
Michelle: I guess, I don't know but I think it’s also like a term from another
generation. So his parents
Lindsay: Oh wow.
Michelle: Still call it a valise so my husband grew up also like the valise, I’m like what
are you talking about you sound you know [laughter]
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Lindsay: Oh wow, that is really interesting. That’s really interesting. I mean if
someone asked him if that word was common, he might say yes because
he might not be thinking about the larger scale.
Michelle: Exactly.
Lindsay: So that’s the danger of you know we have to double check in different
places and we’re going to come to some recommendations guys some
take aways of what you can do here in just a little bit but I like that
example.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Oh my goodness. I made so much fun of him in the
beginning. Now he doesn’t say it anymore. [laughter]
Lindsay: You changed his language.
Michelle: I did. I did. I’m like no one says that. [laughter]
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) and the other thing is education levels. Umm
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: This makes me think of I’ve been seeing on the news what’s going on…
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: With the Trump umm
Michelle: I’ve been thinking about the same thing.
Lindsay: Ah the Trump party and noticed that there was a huge – there was a riot.
There have been a lot of riots. It’s very scary what’s happening right now
with Donald Trump and he is kind of rallying people well some of his
followers are actually starting – they are committing violent acts against
the protesters.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: And there was one point where a Trump follower punched a protester and
the man was African American that he punched and I heard him explain,
he used a very incorrect – I think he used the simple past when he should
have used the present perfect.
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Michelle: Hmm
Lindsay: Right and you could just tell that he was not an educated man.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: When he was interviewed on the news. Okay?
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: So you do want to want to be careful especially in certain parts of the U.S.,
you’ll find people who are not just educated. Okay? And ahh you just
want to be careful what kind of language you’re listening to and picking up
on.
Michelle: Right. Right, exactly.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). That’s interesting. Also what’s the next one,
Michelle?
Michelle: Your career field, right?
Lindsay: Hmm.
Michelle: That’s also you know similar to maybe a subculture, right?
Lindsay: Mhh hhm. Yeah (yes), many of these are subcultures.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), I don't know [laughter]
Lindsay: No, you’re right. Exactly and then region is huge. You know you think in
Maryland, is Maryland, Michelle is that technically the South or is that…?
Michelle: I think it might – I don't know that’s like a big think like.
Lindsay: No, you guys have an identity crisis there.
Michelle: We do. I mean I consider ah ah I consider it to be in the North but I think
technically it’s in the South.
Lindsay: Right so then so I went to college in Virginia.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
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Lindsay: The people that I met from Maryland some of them would say “y’all”
meaning you all but pretty much everyone from Virginia would say “y’all”
and everywhere south of that. And if you asked someone from Virginia if
“y’all” is common they will say yeah (yes) sure.
Michelle: Oh yeah (yes).
Lindsay: It’s common, of course it’s common.
Michelle: One of my best friends, she is from South Carolina and they all say “y’all”
“y’all” “y’all” and it’s so cute.
Lindsay: It’s cute. I think it’s very cute. I like it a lot actually but if you ask someone
from Boston if that is common.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: They will say no, of course not.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: They will probably tell you that’s from the South because we know that.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), that’s a very common one.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s a more obvious example but it’s just a good example
that we have to be careful, you know, asking what’s common and what’s
not.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: So are the next two?
Michelle: Well, generation, right?
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: Which we talked about and amount of time spent inside and outside the
U.S.
Lindsay: Hmm.
Michelle: Can you explain this one Lindsay?
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Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I was actually thinking about myself as an English teacher in
Japan. When I was in 2005, I started mirroring what my Japanese students
were saying.
Michelle: Ah ha.
Lindsay: So I started mirroring like I don't know if it was an incorrect translation
from Japan or it’s just a – kind of a phrase only used in Japan.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: For learners of English but not for native speakers in the U.S. or the U.K.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: So my students would always say “see you”, we warned against this before
on this show that we really don’t use this in the U.S., we see use “see ya”
or we say “bye” but in Japan my students would say “see you” as a
goodbye and I started saying it.
Michelle: I started saying it too almost to the point of where I’m confused now
because remember I told you I do say “see you” but
Lindsay: [Laughter] So English teachers can pick up their students’ language which
is really interesting so you know if you’re in Japan and you ask an English
teacher who has been there for 5 years whether “see you” is common,
they might say yes. Right, so again it’s so funny we have to be careful. We
have to be careful. So Michelle, what do we do? What’s the take away? I
mean what’s our advice from today for Rea and other students listening to
our show?
Michelle: Right, I mean the advice is that you know you really – you have to choose,
you know the English that you’re going to speak, right?
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: You have to think about you know what subcultures are you a part of,
what are you going to hear most of the time, what language should you be
using and what’s your own style, right?
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Lindsay: Hmm. Exactly. You know think about and to choose that you want to
think about why you’re learning English, are you learning for a career?
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: If you are, if you’re learning to be a like a tech person, you want to get a
job in Silicon Valley if that’s your goal.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: I know we have some listeners that do want to do that then you should be
listening to podcasts that are coming from tech people in Silicon Valley. I
mean obviously you want to have a diversity of voices in your world and
things to listen to but pay attention to the vocabulary that they use so that
you can become an insider.
Michelle: Right, right, exactly, exactly. So yeah (yes) really just – yeah (yes) soak up
as much information as you can about you know like the English that you
want to speak.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I mean that’s the point. I think that things become so much
more interesting when you we have a specific objective. We are not just
blandly looking at textbooks. I mean the textbooks probably try to present
to you the most basic, universal English.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: But there really is no universal English.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: There is (are) so many subcultures. So you know decide on how you want
to use your English and make it practical. It will motivate you more too.
Michelle: Right, right, exactly. I completely agree with that.
Lindsay: Right and the other take away is of course as we said before when you ask
someone whether or not something is common when they tell you yes or
no think about their position in the world, their background, their
subcultures. Why did they just tell you that that word is common, right?
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Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: Be very critical about what you hear just don’t take it just because a native
speaker tells you something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right, the right
answer for you.
Michelle: Right, right, right, right. Exactly. And even though I don’t use the word
“y’all” I know what it means so that’s another thing that it’s still good to
know these things whether or not you use them cuz (because) one of the
great things is that you meet people in the U.S . from all different you
know places, and of all – I mean anywhere you know you’re just with only
one kind of person from one kind of place and so you’re going to hear
these things so even if you don’t say “piece of cake” or “cake walk” or
whatever you probably going to hear it as some point.
Lindsay: Totally agree Michelle. I love it. This is a really good topic today and I
want to say thank you to you know Rea for asking this question, Rea, I like
the way you’re thinking. You know this is the way to think. We want to be
critical about everything we hear especially when it comes to language
learning. Because language learning like I said we can become an insider
in a certain culture which can get us the job we want or can get us the
friends we want or the notoriety we want, whatever it is language has the
power to help us move through our lives and connect.
Michelle: For sure.
Lindsay: M’kay (okay).
Michelle: Awesome.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Awesome, Michelle. That was fun.
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: [laughter] This has been a long one so we better get off the mikes our
listeners can get on with their day.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), really.
Lindsay: Guys thank you so much for listening to the podcast today.
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Michelle: Thank you.
Lindsay: We appreciate you guys as listeners of All Ears English and we will be back
soon.
Michelle: Okay. Bye guys.
Lindsay: Alright. Bye Michelle.
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AEE Episode 508: Personal Space, Honking And Good Service:
Michelle’s Experience in India
[Instrumental]
Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 508: “Personal Space, Honking
and Good Service: Michelle’s Experience in India”
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast, downloaded more than 16
million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection ™ with your
American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the ‘English Adventurer’, and Michelle
Kaplan, the ‘New York Radio Girl,’ coming to you from Boston and New
York City, USA.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: And to instantly download your transcript from today’s episode go to
AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts, AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts.
[Instrumental]
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Announcer: Today hear about my experience in India and find out why it was
wonderful, jarring, and confusing all at the same time.
[Instrumental]
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strong business relationships and you even get the promotions that you’re
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[Instrumental]
Michelle: Hey (Hi) Lindsay, how are you?
Lindsay: Hey (Hi) there Michelle, I’m doing pretty well, you?
Michelle: I’m doing really well. I’m starting to finally get back on track because I was
very jet lagged.
Lindsay: Oh my gosh, you just came back from India, woohoo!
Michelle: Yes, oh my goodness. I umm am so tired but it was totally worth it. I had
a wonderful time.
Lindsay: [laughter] That’s good. That’s good.
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: And we’re excited to hear about it today.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). So I mean I would really like to – I know our
listeners are probably curious about the trip and I know we have listeners
from India
Lindsay: [laughter]
Michelle: So definitely, hey guys.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s right we have a lot of listeners in India or from India who
are in the U.S. even, right?
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Michelle: Exactly yeah (yes), yeah (yes), yeah (yes), exactly. So umm umm Lindsay
are there any questions that you want to ask me about the trip? I thought
we could do a little Q&A.
Lindsay: Absolutely. I mean these are great examples of you know if our listeners
run into someone who has just been traveling.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: These are great questions that they could ask.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: And we are going to show you guys how to use these questions in a role
play in just a little bit but yeah (yes) Michelle I want to know about so I
mean, where in India did you travel to – where did you go?
Michelle: Okay so huh, it’s a large country, right?
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: And we were in the north, we were in the middle, in the south, we started
in Delhi and we did the “Golden Triangle” which is Delhi, Jaipur, Agra. We
saw the Taj Mahal.
Lindsay: Wow.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), which was beautiful. Then we – let’s see – huh gosh it’s hard
to remember anymore.
Lindsay: [laughter]
Michelle: Oh then we went back to Delhi.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: Then we went to a place called Chandigarh that’s where the wedding was.
After Chandigarh we went back to Delhi.
Lindsay: Oh wow.
Michelle: To catch a flight to Udaipur.
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Lindsay: Oh my gosh.
Michelle: Which was beautiful. After Udaipur, we went to Mumbai and after
Mumbai we went to Kerala in the south then back to Delhi and then home.
Lindsay: Oh my gosh, you’ve been all over the place. Wow.
Michelle: Whew!
Lindsay: How did you get around like how did you get to all of these places?
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: How did you get around the country?
Michelle: So we did a lot of driving and a lot of flying so we did domestic flights. We
did a flight to Udaipur. We did the flight to the south and back up north,
you know all around. We also took a train.
Lindsay: Wow.
Michelle: We took a train from Delhi to Chandigarh and we had someone. The tour
company they had a driver and they drove us around for like the “Golden
Triangle” you know those are 3, 4, 5, 6 hour drives.
Lindsay: Wow.
Michelle: And they drove us around there and then through the cities and you know
for more of the closer trips that we did.
Lindsay: Oh my gosh. Oh God you must be exhausted. [laughter]
Michelle: Yup (yes).
Lindsay: You’re tired. You’re tired.
Michelle: I’m starting to feel like back to myself. Like today’s the first day I think I’m
like oh wait my name is Michelle.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) [laughter]
Michelle: Hello. Nice to meet you again. [laughter]
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Lindsay: [laughter] That’s awesome. And here is another good question that our
listeners could ask at a party if they run into someone who has just been
traveling, right? I could ask you, you know, Michelle what surprised you
the most about India?
Michelle: Hmm, that’s a good question.
Lindsay: Hmm
Michelle: I mean so much, so much was surprising to me. I mean I knew. I had been
prepared, a lot of people told me you know that here is a lot of poverty
and you know that you see the extremes you know very, very rich and you
know unfortunately the very, very poor as well.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: So but still when you see it, it’s really shocking because there were a lot of
ups and downs on this trip I mean in the trip you go from seeing beautiful
things and then unfortunately you see now some people who are having a
terrible time.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: You know they are hungry and they don’t have a place to live and it’s very
sad.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes).
Michelle: So that was surprising to actually see, umm let’s see what else was
surprising. Umm I think umm it was surprising the driving situation
because we had a driver and that’s very common in India to you know.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: In the U.S., you pretty much you take a cab and that’s about it.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Sure, sure.
Michelle: Like unless maybe you’re a celebrity and then you have a driver but
Lindsay: Right.
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Michelle: There it’s very common to have a driver and they wait for you.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm. Mhh hhm.
Michelle: So we did that. And that is not only for tourism like that’s for you know
people, friends of ours they said they had drivers and so yeah (yes) that
was a very interesting thing. Also oh one more thing, in Delhi, the traffic is
intense.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: And here in the U.S. if you honk (at) someone it is almost scary, you know.
Lindsay: You don’t want to honk at someone, yeah (yes).
Michelle: You don’t want to honk the horn too much unless it’s like a umm critical.
Lindsay: Right. This is being said from a New Yorker? [laughter]
Michelle: Yeah (yes), well no. Well I don’t drive in New York, goodness.
Lindsay: [Laughter]
Michelle: Umm here like you honk but it’s like here it’s a little dangerous to honk
because you don’t never know if somebody you know.
Lindsay: Right, right, right, sure. No it’s disturbing but is it very common in India,
everyone is honking, oh
Michelle: Exactly, it’s like they ask you to honk like some of the trucks on the back of
it. Honk horn okay, you know or something like that.
Lindsay: Ohhh. Wow, okay.
Michelle: They want you to honk the horn because that’s how they know that you’re
there. So there is honking all of the time especially in Delhi. So those
were a few of the surprising things.
Lindsay: Wow, that’s interesting. It’s such a culture shock I would imagine, you
know, when you first arrive and there are horns going off everywhere and
it’s hot and wow it’s so intense. Intense is probably the word right?
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Michelle: Definitely, I mean you are right, coming from New York, the honking didn’t
surprise me as much as it probably would have if I came from where else.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) [laughter]
Michelle: Umm but still like just like the thought process behind you know using the
horn was still surprising.
Lindsay: Hmm. It’s different okay. Right because the thought process behind using
the horn in the U.S. is kind of when you’re angry.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: Sometimes it’s used to just warn someone that you’re there and that is
how it should be actually.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: But we – it’s more that we use it when we have road rage, honestly here in
the U.S.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: I think. I hear people in Boston will just sit on their horns, right.
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: They sit on their horns. They just don’t bump it real quickly to let
someone know that they are there, they sit on the horn. BEEEEEEP
Michelle: Yup (yes), right yup (yes).
Lindsay: And I can tell that person is angry.
Michelle: Yeah (yes) right and that can be startling when you’re driving and you hear
that. You know it’s just not looked at in the same way. You know like you
said there could be road rage or and you know don’t some – it can be
dangerous to use your horn in that way. Umm but in Delhi it’s just beep,
beep, beep, beep, beep.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) right, yeah (yes).
Michelle: Hello, everyone. And also I’m coming through.
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Lindsay: Right.
Michelle: In other parts of India as well but really mostly in Delhi I noticed it.
Lindsay: Hmm. I like that it’s interesting because that sounds like a kinder
environment than people here in Boston just having repressed road rage,
suppressed and repressed road rage.
Michelle: [laughter] yeah (yes).
Lindsay: You know we can go into that another day. I have some more questions
for you Michelle.
Michelle: Okay.
Lindsay: [laughter] Umm so – so did you speak only in English, did you speak Hindi?
I mean how is your Hindi?
Michelle: Oh hahaha [laughter]
Lindsay: [laughter]
Michelle: Not good. My Hindi is not good.
Lindsay: [laughter]
Michelle: I was able to mostly communicate in English. You know English is
definitely spoken in India a lot. They say that
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: Our tour guards – guides were saying that it’s the business language which
was interesting.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), sure. Sure, right, yeah (yes).
Michelle: So most signs are in Hindi and English and umm I definitely noticed
regional differences like in Delhi and Mumbai there was a lot of English
spoken.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
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Michelle: We could pretty much get around no problems but umm I remember I
think it was Udaipur I mean not to generalize but I noticed that like even at
our hotel like the people working at the hotels and like Mumbai, Delhi and
things like that they spoke pretty fluent English and in some of the other
places umm it was a little bit harder to communicate so again I don’t want
to generalize because it’s not that I’m an expert or anything but this is just
what I saw. Umm so some places were different than others in terms of
using English.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), no absolutely. And then of course we know that there are a lot
of like tons and tons of regional languages right native regional.
Michelle: Exactly. Yeah (yes), you’ve got Hindi and then you’ve got your regional
language.
Lindsay: Right, right.
Michelle: It’s a just incredible to me how, you know, people are bilingual, trilingual
all of these things and really amazing.
Lindsay: It’s amazing. Yeah (yes) that’s the one thing. Here in the U.S., it’s
generally one language and it’s kind of sad that we haven’t been able to
teach ourselves to use different languages. We should be able to.
Michelle: I agree. Yeah (yes)
Lindsay: But what were the people like that you met? I mean it’s hard to generalize
again because everyone is different but what were they like?
Michelle: Umm I thought the people where very friendly. Umm people are very
friendly to I think guests.
Lindsay: Okay.
Michelle: You know it’s a very important that they are kind to people who are
visiting and so I would say that I had very for the most part positive
experiences with the people. I would say that an interesting thing is when
you go shopping.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
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Michelle: Because again, not to generalize but in my experience, people were very
much like they – the sales people would follow you, I mean not at every
store at all but in many of the stores they have they follow you around.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: And they talk to you about what you’re looking at so it’s hard to get this
moment of peace.
Lindsay: Oh.
Michelle: You know in the U.S. it’s sometimes it can be even hard to find someone
to help you or you just go into a store in the U.S. and it’s like oh do you
need any help, oh no thanks I’m just looking.
Lindsay: That’s interesting so it’s kind of like the definition of good service in the
retail sector is different maybe across cultures, right?
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: Good service here in the U.S. means yeah (yes) maybe someone says hello
to you when you walk through the door of the shop.
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: And you know they ask you hey do you need any help? And if you say no,
I’m just looking. They stay away.
Michelle: Yes.
Lindsay: But they are still available, right, so you could ask a question whereas
maybe in India good service is more like they follow you around, I don't
know so…
Michelle: That’s what I sort of realized because at first I thought it was more like oh
in the market places that they follow you around but then even in the
hotel like we went to look there was a little spa in the hotel and we were
thinking maybe we should something so we were staring at the spa menu
and the person was staring at us and asking us a lot of questions about it
and wouldn’t really let us think and honestly it was to the point where we
ended up not doing anything because I just couldn’t.
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Lindsay: Oh.
Michelle: I couldn’t have a second to think clearly so I’m like just forget it.
Lindsay: Oh, that’s so interesting.
Michelle: But I realized it’s just not just in the market place. Then I was surprised
because there were many shops that I went to where nobody would bug –
you know it was more like in the U.S. but it was interesting how it wasn’t
just the marketplace. It was even at the hotel or even at the hotel gift
shop.
Lindsay: So it sounds that part of what is playing in here is our cultural differences
regarding personal space.
Michelle: Yes.
Lindsay: You know.
Michelle: Yup (yes).
Lindsay: That maybe be part of it. You know like I don’t like to be – first of all you
know we have the bubble, the physical space.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: We don’t want anyone coming into our physical bubble and it sounds like
were they standing quite close to you when they were.
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: Yeah (yes) I just want to look and that – that wasn’t really possible and
eventually you start to get used to it but you don’t want to be rude and
say like leave me alone or anything like that but eventually you get a little
uncomfortable and you start to get used to it but it’s really ah quite
different and I do think it’s what you said Lindsay, I don’t think it’s
supposed to be like irritating or you know make things difficult for people.
Lindsay: Right.
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Michelle: I just think it’s a different concept of what is good service like here they
you know they are there and they are going to be there with you until you
leave.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), no that’s good service. That’s interesting so it’s like good
service versus bad service across cultures. There are so many interesting
topics that we could go into another day but let’s keep going through this
Michelle. I think we have heard about some of the interesting things that
you did, right?
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: Is there one more really quick like – quickly one more interesting thing or…
?
Michelle: I would say that I really loved the Taj Mahal.
Lindsay: Cool.
Michelle: I loved to see the Taj Mahal. There was one thing that I was thinking and
oh gosh you know that was really, really interesting. Umm we saw a lot of
different forts and palaces and the wedding was very interesting.
Lindsay: Wow, that sounds awesome. Wow.
Michelle: So there’s one thing that I wanted to say and I forgot. Okay, well I’m sure
it will come – [laughter] – it will come to me.
Lindsay: You can say it in another episode.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), sure, sure, sure.
Lindsay: We can keep sharing little tidbits about India in the future.
Michelle: Sure.
Lindsay: For sure. I’m getting some ideas for episodes too and before we go into
the next piece guys I want to remind you. You can get the transcripts from
today. To really understand everything that Michelle is saying here about
her experiences, if you go to AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts and it’s also a
really, really good way to just to make sure that you’re mirroring the
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native accent, right, that’s the way to start to pick up our native accent
and it’s by following us with the transcript. So go on over and grab that
guys. Okay?
Michelle: Yes, yes, yes.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: The best way to become natural and fluent in English is to use the right
words. You can get the “The 100 Most Common Phrases in English” today
for free. It’s an e-book and you can download it instantly, go to
AllEarsEnglish.com/100.
[Instrumental]
Lindsay: So Michelle, let’ go ahead and teach our listeners some phrases from
today so that if they come back from an exciting experience traveling
abroad, they could talk about it, right?
Michelle: Okay, perfect.
Lindsay: So what’s the first one that you had?
Michelle: The first one is to call something “eye opening”.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I like that. I mean literally it’s kind of obvious what it means,
right?
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: It opens your eyes, like wow!
Michelle: Surprising or shocking in some way or like it made you – I think of “eye
opening” it’s like - made you learn something.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), no exactly, I love that. I love that. And then the next
expression is what?
Michelle: Is “it’s hard to express” or it’s really hard to express” right?
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
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Michelle: So I would say that about India. It’ such a unique place, “it’s hard to
express” like all the things that I felt and all the things that I did and things
like that.
Lindsay: Right because when you first came back last week when we were talking
you didn’t know what to say when I asked you like to describe it. It’ like a
visceral feeling. It’s more of an experience than a way to express it in
words, right?
Michelle: Right. Exactly.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Okay what else? What else could someone say about a
difficult trip?
Michelle: You could say “Oh it was a real challenge” so my trip was like it was not
relaxing on the beach, we were running around all of the time. You heard
planes, trains and – planes, a train and car rides
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: And “it’s challenging”.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes). No totally, totally. Again if something is hard to describe and
you want someone to go to really understand it what would say?
Michelle: I would say “you have to see it for yourself or you really have to see it for
yourself”.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), and that seems like that’s the lesson for today, right? We
really need to go ourselves too.
Michelle: Yeah (yes)! So guys, you have to go.
Lindsay: And then two more expressions that we want to teach our listeners here.
Michelle: Huh Ha.
Lindsay: What was the next one?
Michelle: The next one is “It was out of this world”. It’s like.
Lindsay: Hmm.
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Michelle: Like I can’t even explain, right?
Lindsay: Yeah (yes). And what’s one really cool adjective to describe that’s just like
this “out of this world”?
Michelle: “Spectacular”
Lindsay: “Spectacular”
Michelle: “Amazing”
Lindsay: Oh I never hear that but it’s good. You know sometimes we repeat the
same adjectives over and over like “amazing” but another one that we
could put in for our listeners is “spectacular”.
Michelle: Like really amazing.
Lindsay: Have a little variety.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: In our adjectives guys. Okay good. So Michelle let’s jump into a typical
conversation that our listeners would really be able to mirror this
conversation and use something similar when they’re interacting with
other people in English. Let’s do it. I’m going to ask you some questions
here. Are you ready?
Michelle: Yes.
Lindsay: So how was your trip to India, Michelle?
Michelle: Oh man, Lindsay, “it was out of this world”.
Lindsay: Oh really, wow. So how so?
Michelle: Oh well, “it’s really hard to express”. I saw amazing things. I loved see the
spectacular view of Lake Pichola in Udaipur but in some ways “it was a real
challenge”.
Lindsay: How was it challenging?
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Michelle: Well, there’s unfortunately a lot of poverty so I saw a lot of that in the
streets and it was disheartening. Umm “It was so eye opening” and made
me think about how fortunate I am to have food and clean water.
Lindsay: Oh yeah (yes), I’ve heard that. That must be tough to see.
Michelle: Yeah (yes) but there was so many amazing things about India that I saw. I
loved it and it was an incredible trip. “You really have to see it for
yourself”.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I really want to go one day. I’ve got to go.
Michelle: [laughter] Awesome.
Lindsay: [laughter] Okay. Good. So you used a lot of the expressions here
Michelle, I like that. So we fit them all in here. First you said, oh man, “it
was out of this world”.
Michelle: Right and then you asked me how and I said well, “it’s really hard to
express” and I said that there were “spectacular” views of Lake Pichola.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm and as a bonus for our listeners here I like how I said oh really
wow. “How so?”
Michelle: Ahhh.
Lindsay: “How so?” now that is kind of an advanced language construction there.
Michelle: Yes, that’s true.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so our more advanced listeners could try to plug that in. Guys
again if you want to see these words written out, get the transcripts. Go
to AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts. So then you said in some ways “it was a
real challenge”, right?
Michelle: Mhh hhm. Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes).
Michelle: And then I called the trip “eye opening”, right?
Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Another good adjective. Yeah (yes). Okay.
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Michelle: And then I finally said that “you really have to see it for yourself”, right?
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), what an experience. I mean I’ve been told nothing prepares
you for what your body and mind are going to go through when you go to
India. You know you can travel all over Latin America, you can travel all
over Asia, and nothing quite prepares you for India, itself, that country. So
it sounds like you’ve been through a whirlwind of challenges and
experiences good and bad Michelle and just like of visceral, a visceral trip,
right?
Michelle: Yes, absolutely.
Lindsay: Good for you.
Michelle: Overall, I really loved it. [laughter]
Lindsay: Awesome, I’m glad you had a good trip and you know I’m sure this is going
to seep into our conversations.
Michelle: Yes.
Lindsay: Here in the future. I’d like to explore this concept of road rage, you know.
Michelle: Yes.
Lindsay: But for today Michelle I think we better wrap it up here and let our
listeners get on with their day but thanks for sharing this with us Michelle.
I know that sometimes travelling can be very personal; the experiences
that you go through can be very personal. So that thanks for opening up
for us.
Michelle: Oh sure, thanks for asking and thanks for listening everyone.
Lindsay: [laughter] Alright cool. I’ll you back here next time Michelle.
Michelle: See you later.
Lindsay: Bye bye.
[Instrumental]
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Announcer: Thanks so much for listening to All Ears English and if you need a seven or
higher on your IELTS exam to achieve your life vision then our “Insider
Method” can get you there. Start with our free video series master class,
get video one now at AllEarsEnglish.com/insider and if you believe in
Connection NOT Perfection ™ then subscribe to our show on your phone
or on your computer. See you next time.
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AEE Episode 509: How to Use the Phrase So Far Like The Cool Kids Do
Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 509: “How to Use the Phrase So
Far Like the Cool Kids Do”
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast, downloaded more than 16
million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection™ with your
American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the ‘English Adventurer’, and Michelle
Kaplan, the ‘New York Radio Girl,’ coming to you from Boston and New
York City, USA.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: And to instantly download your transcript from today’s episode go to
AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts, AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Today find out how to use the phrase “so far” in English to get more
advanced and more specific with your vocabulary choices.
[Instrumental]
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Announcer: Hey (Hi) guys, if you want to be charismatic at work get our free video
master class where you learn charisma in few simple phrases. Go to
AllEarsEnglish.com/charisma.
[Instrumental]
Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Michelle, what’s going on with you today in New York?
Michelle: Hey (Hi) Lindsay, not too much, not too much. How are you?
Lindsay: Well I’m feeling good just came back from that weekend in Burlington and
I got a lot of sleep last night and I’m spending a lot of time with 2-year-old
niece which is so cool.
Michelle: Ahhh.
Lindsay: It’s the coolest thing when a kid learns your name and they start to
recognize you.
Michelle: Ohh. I know. I know. It’s incredible. [laughter]
Lindsay: It’s so cool. It’s so cool. She’s not – right now she is just repeating words.
She’s not quite stringing together sentences but she is getting close.
Michelle: Mhh hhm. Oh that’s so exciting.
Lindsay: [laughter] It’s amazing, it’s amazing. [laughter]
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: So anyways Michelle, we are not talking about kids but we are actually
talking about an expression that I think that at our listeners’ level this is
the right time to add in this little construction here.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: And the reason I thought of this was we got a nice email from a listener
and she used this construction in what I think is kind of an advanced way.
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: So Michelle would you read this email that we got from our listener and
we can pick it out?
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Michelle: Okay, so it was.
Lindsay: I don’t know who it was. I can’t remember the name of the person but
that’s okay.
Michelle: Oh well, it says “I’m doing very well. Thank you for asking me. I’m busy
“so far”. I’m working as an EMIS coordinator with my partner. I’m helping
her. We take care of 17 schools in Ohio. We are busy but “so far” so
good.”
Lindsay: Good so what do you like about what this listener said to us here?
Michelle: “So far”
Lindsay: “So far”
Michelle: And “so far so good”, very I think it’s very common.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I like – especially I like the last part. “We’re busy but “so far so
good” I just think this is very native. You know?
Michelle: Yeah (yes). Yeah (yes), absolutely.
Lindsay: And Michelle what’s a good way just so our listeners know what would be
a good way to make sure for our listeners to make sure that they catch
you every word we are saying today and that they can really understand
how to use this expression “so far”?
Michelle: Transcripts.
Lindsay: Transcripts woo woo hoo!
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: Guys the transcripts are back, very exciting I know, and you can now go
ahead and just buy this week’s transcripts and you can also sign up to get
next – every week’s transcripts delivered to your email automatically.
Michelle: Nice.
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Lindsay: So that’s a very good option, guys so go on over right now to
AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts and sign up. Okay. Michelle so what does
“so far” mean?
Michelle: “So far” means up to now.
Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: Umm until now, up to this point, right? “Thus far”
Lindsay: “Thus far”
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: Which of those is a little bit more formal sounding?
Michelle: “Thus far”
Lindsay: “Thus far” I like to use that sometimes.
Michelle: Do you?
Lindsay: Because I sound smart when I use it.
Michelle: [laughter] That’s cute.
Lindsay: You know so for example “up to now” so “up to know”, “until now”, “up to
this point” this is my favorite dish if I’m doing a – this weekend we went to
a chocolate tasting. We went to chocolate factory and we had to do a
taste test to see – to categorize the chocolates.
Michelle: Very nice.
Lindsay: So we are halfway through the taste testing and I could have said.
Michelle: Ahhh.
Lindsay: “So far” this is my favorite chocolate.
Michelle: Ahh, very good. Yeah (yes), I like that.
Lindsay: Right but it implies right that we are not done yet, right?
Michelle: Exactly, exactly.
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Lindsay: I think that’s one of the key points from today. “So far” implies that we
are still in the process of doing something, right?
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: So my chocolate tasting was not done.
Michelle: [laughter] Nice
Lindsay: “So far” – it was really cool. I think it’s Burlington Chocolates, Burlington
Chocolate Factory or something but really good chocolate, you know.
Michelle: Nice.
Lindsay: You can get it at Whole Foods so good stuff. [laughter]
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: Alright so then what’s the second way, slightly different but similar way
that “so far” is used? Or meaning for it.
Michelle: Right so another way is it means “to a limited extent” right? So like you
can only go “so far” on $7.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) and these days, what can you do with $7, not a whole lot, you
know.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: You can get a meal at McDonald’s, maybe that’s pretty much it.
Michelle: Yeah (yes) maybe. [laughter]
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so those are the two meanings or the two ways that it is used
so now we are going to give our listeners plenty of examples, right?
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: So Michelle, how is your day going “so far”?
Michelle: Umm my day is going well “so far”, “so far so good”, right? No – no – I was
feeling a little bit sick yesterday but today “so far so good”.
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Lindsay: Awesome. And then another way to use it would be like oh like for
example you know, how are the elections going so far?
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: We’ve just had the primaries, right?
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: I think “so far” it’s been – our listeners know we elect the new president
this coming November so we are really “in the thick of it right now”, right?
Michelle: Oh yes.
Lindsay: Bonus phrase. Bonus phrase.
Michelle: Oh yes.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I would say to Michelle like what do you think about the
elections “so far”? What do you think about the voting season “so far”?
Michelle: It’s crazy. [laughter]
Lindsay: It’s really heating up with Donald Trump.
Michelle: It’s very intense and a lot of arguments.
Lindsay: Oh my God, I have never seen it this intense before.
Michelle: Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: And I think people are getting kind of scared. [laughter]
Michelle: Yup (yes), I think so too.
Lindsay: With what’s happening here. Umm any other examples?
Michelle: Alright like,
Lindsay: “So far”?
Michelle: How is the team doing “so far”, right?
Lindsay: Hmm
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Michelle: Like oh it’s the middle of the basketball team – basketball season or
something like. How is the team doing “so far”?
Lindsay: Exactly. Or another thing we could say is “So far” today, we haven’t had
any tech issues. Although we did have one where we lost the connection a
few minutes ago. [laughter]
Michelle: That’s true. Oh well.
Lindsay: But “so far” we haven’t had too many tech issue, right Michelle?
Michelle: That’s good.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), “so far” today, right?
Michelle: That’s right.
Lindsay: Okay good.
[Instrumental]
Announcer: To stop speaking like a textbook and start speaking like a real native
speaker, get “The 100 Most Common Phrases in English”, it’s a free e-book
and you can download it now. Go to AllEarsEnglish.com/100.
[Instrumental]
Lindsay: So ahh, I want to encourage our listeners again to use this expression so
far so good I mean it’s kind of obvious what it means, right Michelle?
Michelle: Right, it’s like up until now like “so far” everything is okay like no
problems.
Lindsay: Good. And one key piece when we’re talking about grammar is what kind
of grammar are we using when use “so far” because we know that it’s –
we are in the process of something. We are still doing something.
Michelle: Mhh hhm. Right.
Lindsay: So what do we use?
Michelle: Right so you’re probably going to use the present perfect, right?
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Lindsay: Mhh hhm.
Michelle: “So far” I haven’t had any problems with my apartment.
Lindsay: Perfect or “so far” today, we haven’t experienced any problems with the
technical issues today.
Michelle: Right, right, exactly.
Lindsay: Perfect. So guys that’s really important cuz (because) if you use the
present tense with this, it just sounds weird, okay? It doesn’t work. Right?
Michelle: Yeah (yes), I guess I mean I guess you could say like “so far” I don’t see any
problems with this or something like that.
Lindsay: Hmm. Yeah (yes), I mean maybe occasionally natives might say that.
Michelle: Yeah (yes), I think we would but yeah (yes) it’s like one of those where it’s
probably not correct but we say it anyway.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so I think as learners of English, we want to start with the
correct way of saying it.
Michelle: Yes, exactly.
Lindsay: And then we can – there is something like this whole idea of you know to
become a master at something, first you learn the words,
Michelle: Yup (yes).
Lindsay: I’m sorry first you learn the rules and you become a master and then you
can break the rules, right?
Michelle: You can break them, yes, I think we spoke about this once before with
music. It’s like yeah (yes) you learn the correct way to do things and then
you can figure out some of the other things you can do.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Cuz (because) then we understand the whole
context and we understand why a native speaker might break the rule,
right? But before that we want to try to follow the rules until we can start
to improvise and have more freedom.
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Michelle: Exactly.
Lindsay: I like that motto.
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: But in the end, we always come back to Connection NOT Perfection ™ of
course that is our baseline belief here at All Ears English. Okay, cool,
Michelle. So let’s have a little conversation and let’s mix in “so far” here to
show our listeners how it’s done.
Michelle: Alright.
Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Michelle, wow. I’m surprised to bump into you.
Michelle: Oh hey Lindsay.
Lindsay: Wow, wait don’t you live downtown?
Michelle: Oh no, not anymore actually. I just moved to this neighborhood. We
moved into a place at 88th and Lexington last Sunday.
Lindsay: Oh wow, that’s exciting. How are you liking the neighboring – duh
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: How are you liking the neighborhood “so far”?
Michelle: Oh, “so far” it seems great. I love all of the coffee shops nearby and it’s so
close to the subway which is great.
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), there’s also a bus stop right down on 77th and Lex but so far I
haven’t had to use it because the subway is so close.
Michelle: Oh wow, well enjoy settling in and let me know if you want to get coffee
some afternoon?
Lindsay: I think I messed up somewhere.
Michelle: Yeah (yes). Wait a second.
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Lindsay: No problem. Our listeners still heard the language so that’s all that
matters. So very cool. So here we used “so far” in a couple of different
places right?
Michelle: Mhh hhm. Right so I said – oh you asked me – how are you liking the
neighborhood “so far”?
Lindsay: Right and before we said the present perfect is always used but of course
that’s only when we are talking about things up to this point, right so here
we are using “ing” form and I guess this is just another example of how – it
could – this is also okay, right, Michelle, how are you liking something “so
far”.
Michelle: Right.
Lindsay: So I guess we can deviate outside of using the present perfect but guys
just listen for it and see how it is used by natives.
Michelle: Exactly. Yeah (yes) and then I said “so far” it seems great. Right or I could
have said “so far so good”, right?
Lindsay: Hmm “so far so good” I think that would have been better here. Yeah
(yes), “so far so good” and then here we said umm there is also a bus stop
right down on Lex but “so far” I haven’t had to use it, okay?
Michelle: Mhh hhm.
Lindsay: I haven’t had to use it. Here we are using the present perfect so I like that
yeah (yes). Up to this point, I haven’t had to use it.
Michelle: Right, right, right. Exactly. Yeah (yes).
Lindsay: Yeah (yes), cool. So we had a little bonus here. Lex. I think we’ve taught
this on this show before but if any of our listeners are living in Manhattan
or visiting Manhattan what do they need to know about Lexington
Avenue?
Michelle: It’s very nice.
Lindsay: [laughter] Yeah (yes), it’s very nice and we also call it Lex, not just
Lexington.
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Michelle: Oh, yeah (yes), yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Well that too yes.
Lindsay: [laughter]
Michelle: [laughter]
Lindsay: It’s very nice.
Michelle: It also made me think of the other use of “so far”, it’s like oh well like it’s
like $2000 a month will only get you “so far” in Manhattan, right?
Lindsay: Hmm, that’s a good point, right. So that’s what we need to know about
the Upper East Side, a certain amount of money will only get you “so far”
in terms of renting an apartment, right?
Michelle: Right. Exactly.
Lindsay: But like we said before I think that downtown is more expensive than
Uptown these day unless you want to live on Park Avenue and that’s just
very expensive.
Michelle: Right, right. [laughter]
Lindsay: [Laughter] Alright, good. So guys get the transcripts from today, if you
really want to solidify your learning go to AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts
and Michelle any final thoughts on today’s episode?
Michelle: I think it was very fun.
Lindsay: [Laughter]
Michelle: So guys we hope you enjoyed and yeah (yes) definitely listen – oh read the
transcripts.
Lindsay: Read the transcripts, yes.
Michelle: And yeah (yes), ahh everything is good.
Lindsay: Alright cool, we’ll see you here next week, Michelle. Take care.
Michelle: See you later.
Lindsay: Bye, bye.
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Michelle: Bye
[Instrumental]
Announcer: Thanks so much for listening to All Ears English and if you need a seven or
higher on your IELTS exam to achieve your life vision then our “Insider
Method” can get you there. Start with our free video series master class,
get video one now at AllEarsEnglish.com/insider and if you believe in
Connection NOT Perfection™ then subscribe to our show on your phone or
on your computer. See you next time.