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STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA
J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
OH 692/35
Full transcript of an interview with
RAY DREW
on 8 March 2002
by Rob Linn
Recording available on CD
Access for research: Unrestricted
Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study
Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the State Library
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OH 692/35 RAY DREW
NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT
This transcript was donated to the State Library. It was not created by the J.D. Somerville Oral History Collection and does not necessarily conform to the Somerville Collection's policies for transcription.
Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken word and reflects the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. The State Library is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the interview, nor for the views expressed therein. As with any historical source, these are for the reader to judge.
This transcript had not been proofread prior to donation to the State Library and has not yet been proofread since. Researchers are cautioned not to accept the spelling of proper names and unusual words and can expect to find typographical errors as well.
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OH 692/35 TAPE 1 - SIDE A
NATIONAL WINE CENTRE, WOLF BLASS ORAL HISTORY PROJECT.
Interview with Ray Drew at Torrens Park, South Australia, on 8th
March, 2002. Interviewer: Rob Linn.
Ray, just to begin at the beginning, where and when were you
born?
RD: I was born in Adelaide on 15th November, 1922.
Tell me about your parents, Ray.
RD: My parents—the AMP Society seemed to like the Drew family because
my parents lived until they were in their late eighties. My father was the
manager of a hardware company that liquidated during the depression
years. My grandparents also lived into their nineties. So longevity was
quite a feature in the Drew family.
a Your parents’ Christian names, Ray.
RD: My parents’ Christian name—my father was William Cuthbert,
commonly known as Bert Drew. My mother’s name was Linda. I was the
youngest of three children. My father was forty when I was born so we
didn’t grow up and play games together. He was an old man when I was a
teenager, in my opinion.
Were your siblings older than you?
RD: Oh, yes. I was the youngest of three.
So—what?—a brother and a sister, was it?
RD: I had a brother and a sister. Yes, good guess. (Laughs) My sister’s
still alive. She’s five years older than I am. She’s just turned eighty-five.
And my brother died a few years back with that horrible cancer disease.
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Where were you brought up and schooled, Ray?
RD: I was born and educated on the western suburbs, at the Welland
primary school. And then on to Woodville High School. I did an
accountancy course at night school.
Now that was very much part of the era in which you grew up, to do night courses, wasn’t it?
RD: That’s right. It was the in thing. I went to work at fourteen. Was
still in latter depression years, and you did your extra curricula, shall I say,
education at night school. It was the common practice in those days.
And was the education excellent? I mean, my belief is that it was,
particularly accounting.
RD: Oh, yes. I never completed the accountancy course for the simple
reason that the Second World War intervened. I was away for five years so
I never completed it. I did take it up when I was discharged, but I was not
prepared to settle down after a few years away from home.
So Ray, you would’ve got your QC from Woody High? Would that be
right?
RD: No. From Welland Primary School. I did the Intermediate and
Leaving at Woodville High.
When did you get your first job?
RD: That was in 1936.
At age fourteen?
RD: That’s right, yes. No, I beg your pardon. It was in ‘37 that I got the
first job. I’d turned fourteen in ‘36. That’s right. I completed my
education, you might say, in ‘36.
So what was your first job, Ray?
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RD: I was a clerk at Gibbs Bright & Company. A shipping clerk there. And
I joined Hardys in 1940.
So this is before you went to the war that you joined?
RD: Yes. I joined the Navy on the day Japan invaded the Hawaiian
Islands, on the 7th December ‘41.
‘41?
RD: Yes.
Now there’s a date in history. (Laughter)
RD: Yes, bit hard to forget that one.
Ray, tell me about Hardys when you first joined. You came into Mile End, did you? Or Currie Street?
RD: [It was] into Currie Street as a shipping clerk. I was there for
eighteen months before I left for the Navy, and on rejoining in ‘46 and
having studied the accountancy course, I eventually got interested in
administration and did accountancy at Hardys. Became a book-keeper,
you might say. And eventually became their accountant.
Ray, what was Currie Street like in 1940? Upstairs and downstairs.
RD: Currie Street had wooden floors. The basement of Currie Street,
Tintara House, was the total production cellar of sparkling wines. The
ground floor was office administration, and upstairs was rented out to
various people. The original Hardys, of course, lived on the top floor, but
years before I joined the company.
We left there. We sold Tintara House, Currie Street. Now that’s a date
that I can’t quite remember. I think it was ‘69 when we sold Currie Street
and moved to Mile End. I wouldn’t be too sure about that.
That’s when the new office complex was built at Mile End?
RD: Yes.
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Who were some of the people you recall at Currie Street when you
first joined?
RD: Well, Ken Hardy was Chairman at the time. Dick Clark was General
Manager.
Just hang on, Ray, for a tick. Ken would’ve been called in in ‘38
when Tom senior was killed.
RD: When Tom senior was killed in the Kyeema air crash. You’re quite
right. Ken, in those days, was manager of our Sydney office, and when
Tom died he was called over and took over the chairmanship of the
company.
And was Ken an amiable fellow?
RD: Oh, very much so. Very much so, yes. Could never say a nasty word
about anybody. If he didn’t say anything nice, he didn’t say anything. He
was a charming man.
So there was Ken. And then who was the second one you
mentioned?
RD: Dick Clark was manager. They had a company secretary called Austin
Welsh, who actually gave me my job. He didn’t last [long]—only a couple
of years I think before he disappeared off the scene. And a chap called
Thompson was company secretary.
Gavin Main was the accountant. And they had three South Australian
travellers there. About five girls, I suppose, in the office staff, and myself
as shipping clerk. That was the total head office.
And would the major work of Hardys have been through Mile End
and down at Tintara at McLaren Vale?
RD: Yes. We had also the winery at Dorrien in the Barossa. And Cyrilton
at Waikerie.
Of course. Cyrilton was up and running well by then.
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RD: Oh, very much so. Yes, that was mainly for their production of
fortifying spirit. No brandy in those days. The still was purely for fortifying
spirit and sweet wines—fortified wines—many of which were exported.
So it would’ve been bulk export?
RD: Bulk exports to the UK, yes, in the main.
I suppose that the war would’ve interrupted that quite a bit, too.
RD: It did. Severely. Yes, exports virtually ceased during the war, other
than a little to New Zealand.
And you mentioned to me before, Ray, that almost the total market was in fortifieds.
RD: Yes. I would say 90% of the wine market in the industry, including
Hardys, would’ve been fortified wines.
And some of the other staff, Ray, would there have been Roger
Warren at Mile End?
RD: Roger Warren and Dick Heath at Mile End, yes. They were the two
winemakers. Jack Neilson at Waikerie. Bob Hagley at McLaren Vale. And
a chap called Henry Weiss at Dorrien.
So you go to war in the Navy, Ray. How long were you away for?
RD: Five years.
You got back in ‘46.
RD: Yes. Rejoined the company in March ‘46, and retired in July ‘83.
In ‘46 when you came back, was the company in a fairly tight state given the war, or is it still humming along?
RD: The domestic market in Australia was still humming along. Weren’t
making huge profits but they were a profitable company. But like all
companies in those days, the industry was pretty small, with I suppose
Penfolds dominating.
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But, no, we developed exports very quickly after the war, and started up
an export department, and that was very successful.
Was this still in bulk?
RD: Still in bulk, yes. 80/90% was in bulk. But over the years that
gradually developed into more bottled wines and markets were opened up
in, shall I say, the Pacific Islands, New Zealand, Singapore, the UK in
particular. And most bulk wines were then shipped to Canada under the
Emu banner—Emu Wine Company banner. We had contracts with Emu to
supply most of their bulk wine.
So there was a fair bit of to-ing and fro-ing with the Emu people?
RD: Very much so, yes.
So who would some of those people been at that time?
RD: Well, Emu in actual fact was run by Colin Haselgrove in those days.
And Colin was also a member of Hardys Board. So you had that tie.
Emu were based at Morphett Vale?
RD: Emu was at Morphett Vale. That’s quite right. I can’t recall when
they closed down.
Oh, well, that’s in the 70’s.
RD: Oh, yes. It’d be roundabout then.
So that’s the end of that era.
RD: That’s right.
Ray, you were mentioning before that the office remained in Currie
Street until the late 60’s. Was there a continuing expansion of
work after the war? Or was it pretty much steady as she goes?
RD: It was steady as she goes. I suppose when we moved to Mile End,
yes, in the end of ‘69, we started to open interstate branches in
Queensland, Tasmania. Prior to that we only had branches in Melbourne
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and Sydney. We had distributors in Darwin, Canberra, Western Australia
and Tasmania. We opened our own branch in Queensland, although we
were still distributing through the Queensland brewery in those days. It
was really a PR office, but when the brewery takeovers started we actually
developed and opened our distribution branch there. Still remaining very
friendly with the brewery.
Virtually a similar operation happened in Tasmania. We opened a branch
down there. And these branches were bottling branches as well as
distribution branches. We were bottling our own wines in those branches.
Burns Philp & Company remained our distributor in Perth in those days.
Yes, well, Perth is a fairly distant market, isn’t it, in that time?
RD: Yes.
It seemed to be the norm for most companies that they had their
own bottling set-ups.
RD: Yes.
Interstate.
RD: That’s quite right.
Or an agent who had a bottling set-up.
RD: Yes. We virtually shipped everything in bulk and it was bottled.
We’re still talking about fortified wines in general.
Yes.
RD: All table wines—the majority of table wines were bottled in South
Australia.
Well, if we’re talking about the fortifieds, what were Hardys major
products?
RD: Well, the biggest seller in those days was VO Invalid Port. Nullarbor
Champagne, as it was often called.
Also fruity sweet sherry. We had a sweet sherry, a full cream sherry.
Cocktails virtually disappeared with the war. The Manhattan Martini
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cocktail mixers virtually disappeared with the war and the sweet sherries
took over. Took over from the Muscats.
Yes, white Port was a seller in the eastern States. Not in South Australia.
It was a sweet Frontignac Muscatel style.
Ray, we’ve talked a lot about the role of fortifieds. What about the
breweries? I know it’s not of the industry as such, but did the breweries really hold a huge amount of power and sway at the
time?
RD: Yes, they did. The breweries were involved in those days in
distributing, quite a lot of them, wines from the industry. As I mentioned
earlier, Queensland brewery were our distributors in Queensland. I know
some of the other breweries interstate were distributing other company’s
wines. Yes, they had a certain amount of power with fortified wines, but
mainly as distributors earning their commission through bottling and
selling.
Beer would’ve been the big drink for most Australians?
RD: Oh, yes. Beer, very much so. Very much so. Big drink.
The wine in those days was sold—the wine shops had virtually closed with
the war. After the war the wine shops, where you could go and get your
fourpenny dark and all that sort of thing, slowly disappeared from the
scene.
Is this what they called wine saloons in some places?
RD: Wine saloons, quite right, yes.
They were quite common, weren’t they, prior to the war?
RD: They were common prior to the war, yes.
I know a lot of country towns had them, too. Places like Mannum, up the river.
RD: Yes.
You’d get them there.
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RD: A number of community clubs opened up and took over from them—
the Renmark Club, [for axample]. Well, the river towns opened up
community clubs. A number on the west coast opened up and virtually
took over the role of in-house drinking, with both beer and wine. And
spirits, of course.
In terms of table wine production, did many people at Hardys drink
table wine in those days?
RD: Very much so. Yes, I would say that in the cities that nearly
everybody at Hardys—the management team—would go out and have their
bottle of table wine for lunch. And I think that’s where wine and food clubs
first became an interesting factor.
For instance, in Adelaide, the wine industry gathered at the Imperial Hotel
every Friday for luncheons, and other diners would see this industry table
drinking their wines, discussing wines, and became interested. And the
Bacchus Club in Adelaide started up and hundreds of people were
interested in the use of wine with food.
When would this’ve been? In the 50’s, or 60’s?
RD: This would be in the early 50’s, yes. You can almost say the
immediate postwar years. And slowly developed as time passed.
Ray, was the food pretty standard at places like the Imperial?
RD: The Beefsteak and Burgundy Club, for instance, of which I was
fortunate enough to be one of the founding eight, actually started Imperial
Hotel. And Des Leahy, the then owner/proprietor of the hotel, he would
buy the prizewinning carcasses in beef competitions, and hang them for
several weeks, and then serve them at these Beefsteak and Burgundy Club
dinners. I think that’s part of the reason the name, Beefsteak, became
synonymous with the Beefsteak and Burgundy Clubs.
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And, yes, food played a tremendous part. We not only discussed wines, we
discussed food, because in my opinion wine can only complement food. It
can’t go the other way around.
With your memory, Ray, would you recall some of the wines you
had at the time of being really top class wines? I know it’s
probably a bit difficult to go back.
RD: Well, in those days we had the standard Penfolds Reserve. We had
the Seppelts Moystons. We had the Hardys St Thomas Burgundy.
Yalumba Galway. They were standard table wines, but they were the best
that the winemakers could produce from the available grapes at that time.
And one of the biggest problems, of course, was to get grape growers
interested in growing table wine varieties compared to their Port and
Muscat varieties.
Of course.
RD: There was a very slow transition there.
About this time, too, is when Colin Gramp brings in the cold and pressure fermentation and makes that first Barossa Riesling. I
don’t know if you recall that.
RD: Oh, I recall it very well.
That was ‘52.
RD: That was ‘52, was it?
Yes.
RD: Well, you’re quite right because I mentioned the Beefsteak and
Burgundy Club originated in ‘54. So, yes, it was all happening in that
period—the same period.
It must’ve been really a very exciting time, Ray …
RD: It was a challenging time.
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‘56 Barossa Pearl comes out roughly at the same time of the
Games. I mean, that must’ve set the industry on its head in one
way.
RD: Yes. I can remember Porphyry Pearl. All those pearls developed—the
glass company came out with special bottles for it. They had to be
pressure bottles, of course. But, yes, I think what Colin Gramp did for the
industry with Barossa Pearl was a tremendous step in the transformation
to, and introduction of, table wine.
So from this period that you’re talking about when the food and
wine clubs start to meet—and, oh, you mentioned earlier, too,
about immigration.
RD: That’s right.
With European migrants coming, having an influence.
RD: Yes.
There must’ve been a steady progression of increasing interest in
wine.
RD: There was. And the general public were hogging for information in
the use of wine. They didn’t know what to order—went out to dinner to
celebrate an occasion, they didn’t know what to order. And their
knowledge came from word of mouth, through these wine and food club
members, and the interest just snowballed, with the result that to my
knowledge today there are hundreds of wine and food clubs, the beginning
of which started here in South Australia.
So you were involved, Ray, with the first people like David Crosby?
RD: Yes.
Beefsteak and Burgundy?
RD: Yes. I tried to dig up a couple of things. Here we are. I dug up this
photo of the original eight of the Beefsteak and Burgundy Club back in ‘54.
I didn’t know whether it would be of any use to you.
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I recognise you, and Tom Hardy, David Crosby. Now that person
was head of wine judges at the Adelaide Show.
RD: George Fairbrother.
George Fairbrother.
RD: David Cleland. Jack Edwards. Dick Clark. And Bob Clampett.
Oh, where’s Bob?
RD: Here. Bob had his own wine and spirit company, if you remember.
I do.
RD: Well, they were the original eight that started the Beefsteak and Burgundy Club.
And from there it all took off.
RD: From there it all took off. I don’t know whether you’re interested—
you’ve probably seen it before—the history of the Beefsteak and Burgundy
Club.
Yes, I managed to get a copy of this, thanks, Ray, which is great.
RD: That’s alright then.
Had there been anything in the industry like that before, Ray?
RD: No. The Beefsteak and Burgundy Club differed from the Bacchus
Club. Whereas the Bacchus Club had several country branches, but they
were big clubs, we used to sit down in the Adelaide Railway Station and
have lunch in there and a hundred people would turn up. And they would
have their meal and their wines and a guest speaker, and it would all be
over in an hour. Beefsteak and Burgundy Club luncheons were also
confined to the hourly time factor but we were limited in membership to—I
think we started off with twenty-five and extended it to thirty. But the
interest would be in discussing the food and wine. And I think knowledge
of the use of wine with food spread far greater, and more quickly, through
Beefsteak and Burgundy Clubs than it did with the larger wine and food
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clubs. You had your epicurean clubs in Victoria and New South Wales, and
all sorts of things. But they all played their part in the transformation and
the introduction of table wines.
Would you’ve been involved with occasions like Wine Weeks?
RD: Oh, very much so. Oh, yes.
How did they work, Ray?
RD: They were unusual things, but in my opinion the Wine Weeks,
although they were great publicity factors for the industry, it was the wine
industry entertaining the wine industry. There was very little public
involvement in the early days, but we had great fun. Great fun.
Could they be anywhere in Australia?
RD: Anywhere in Australia, yes. Used to virtually take it in turns of going
around the various States.
So that was pretty much like an industry based conference, was it?
RD: It really was, yes. But there was very little, as I mentioned, public
involvement.
Were the wine shows at the various agricultural society shows
important at the time?
RD: Yes, mainly with the table wines. And sparkling wines. The publicity
generated through prize winning wines you might say—I think was used by
marketing sectors of the industry. But in my opinion it was overdone. It
finished up with too many—every little wine producing area had a wine
show. And you’d get gold medals appearing on wines from any wine
district throughout the country, and it was overdone. They should’ve been
confined to capital cities and perhaps a national show in Canberra and
forget all the other smaller areas.
All the minor ones.
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RD: Yes. But they still played an important part.
So Ray, coming into the 1960’s, from what you’ve been telling me, there’s an increasing appreciation of wine. Was wine being
marketed differently by this time, or how did the new style of
marketing come in?
RD: No, the marketing—advertising didn’t play its part. It was mainly
word of mouth through the wine/food clubs. Everybody in the industry
when they went out to a meal would use table wine. And it was this factor
of the word spreading very slowly. Because I think it took two decades for
people to become aware that table wine was an actual complement to food.
Prior to that it was the hock and lemon idea—drinking at bars or socially
rather than with food, was the only use of table wine. Claret and soda.
Mind you, in the hot weather I still enjoy a claret and soda.
About this time, too, people like Len Evans were writing nationally
in newspapers -
RD: Yes.
- and Max Lake was having his first book published.
RD: That’s quite right.
So that, too, must’ve been -
RD: Max Lake, yes. Maurice O’Shea played a tremendous part in the
Hunter River. Len Evans, entrepreneur plus. Probably had verbal
diarrhoea but I think it was good for the industry. Yes, they all played their
part. All happened in that period of the 50’s and 60’s.
TAPE 1 - SIDE B
Ray, we’ve been talking about this growth of interest in the
industry right through into the 60’s. Your job’s changing at that
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time, I guess. You’re proceeding up the Hardy ladder, if that’s the
way of putting it. What were you doing in the 60’s into the 70’s?
RD: Yes, I was still accountant of Hardys in the 60’s. I got involved with
marketing in the late 60’s. Became Marketing Manager mid 60’s, and
eventually appointed to the Board as Marketing Director in ‘69, becoming
responsible for the total marketing operation through all our branches, and
was particularly interested in export. Yes, quite a transition from the pen-
pushing days.
And Ray, what are the changes that you see eventuating in the
industry in terms of marketing the product, and the variety of
product?
RD: I think the transition came when the traditional names were dropped
and we developed the use of grape varietal names. I think packaging
changed. A product had to be, shall I say, shelf appealing. The labels had
to be informative. Not only grape varieties but districts. Vintages
appeared that never did before. And the technical advantages that were
happening, of course, played a tremendous part. Wine was not something
that you screwed your nose up about. It became a very, very popular
drink, complementing food in particular.
It also began to be used as just social drinks, without food. And with the
number of table wine varieties increasing in number, and the different
flavours that appealed to both male and female, it slowly took off.
What were some of the major campaigns that you might remember,
Ray?
RD: Well, of course, after the Barossa Pearl era, and Porphyry Pearls and
all the pearls that came out -
Sparkling Rinegolde.
RD: Sparkling Rinegolde. You name it. Every company developed their
pressure cookers. They were, I think, a wonderful introduction for young
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people into the use of wine. Then the flavours came. I remember Hardys
introduced a champagne and orange called Sparkling Swinger.
Yes, they did, too. I remember that product.
RD: That was supported by a big television campaign that cost a lot of
money. It was a hit for a couple of years, but unfortunately a couple of
drums of the orange concentrate that was supplied from a contractor up
the river—I won’t name him—wasn’t up to standard and a batch of this
Sparkling Swinger hit the market that wasn’t palatable and virtually
destroyed it overnight. But I think that type of drink—flavoured drinks—
have got a limited marketing time factor anyway. But, yes, it had its fling.
And several other companies tried various products. And in those days the
introduction of flavoured canned drinks were coming into being.
This is the UDL type …
RD: UDL type of thing. I remember Hardys introduced canned Black
Bottle Brandy and dry ginger ale.
They did indeed, yes.
RD: I had a personal instance [with that one]. In its early introductory
stage I took a couple of iced cans down to golf one day, and on the first
short tee I said to my playing partners, ‘Well, you’d better try this black
canned brandy and dry. It’s not only good to drink, it really does
wonderful things for your golf’. I teed off and had a hole in one.
(Laughter) That’s a fact. I don’t think the Grange Golf Club was ever the
same since. But there you are.
How many dozen cans did you sell? (Laughs)
RD: So there you are, you see. You’ve got to laugh about these things.
Apart from the hole in one, what did they think of the drink, Ray?
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RD: It was very successful. But once again, had a shelf life because those
sort of things come and go. And I think UDL persevered much longer than
any other company with their various spirits.
The flavoured pop drinks also came into being. They had a very limited
life. Quite frankly, I don’t go out much these days other than to the odd
luncheon and have my bottle of red. You’ve got your beers now coming in,
and all sorts of marketing tools.
All the fancy ones, yes.
RD: All the fancy ones, yes.
They certainly are. Ray, by the 1970’s, there’s been an enormous rise in the
appreciation of wine in Australia, and this also brings a new type of
retailer into existence. Very large volume retailers, both—mainly in the eastern States.
RD: Yes.
Are you caught up in the beginnings of all this, too?
RD: No. No. Oh, slightly. Yes, the one that I can recall is when Coles
came into it, and we got involved with Coles in supplying but they screwed
so hard that there wasn’t much in it. So as we were in business to make a
profit, we pulled out of that and let them go their own way.
But, yes, the big buyers. The quantity discounts became quite a marketing
tool. Buy it by the semi-trailer and you got ex discount and so on. And
this, of course, caused group hoteliers and retailers to merge—get
together. Form their buying groups to get the quantity discounts. Buying
power became quite a new adjunct to the industry. I left the industry in
early 80’s and that was just really taking off then.
Well, the one thing you were very much involved with, Ray, was the beginnings of the modern export market. I’d love you to tell me a
little bit about your work on export for Hardys.
RD: Well, I only did the background work. We introduced a marketing
section. We had a manager and an assistant manager, both of whom
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spent the majority of their time going to various overseas markets to (a)
establish distributors, and to spread the word of Australian wine generally.
Hardys in particular. Very successful. Other companies started the same
sort of thing. And Australian wines slowly built up a reputation for value
for money.
We always reserved some top quality wines to send overseas, and to
establish that, and I think that really helped Australian industry get its
name as a quality market. The results today, as I read in the press and
industry tit-bits, you know, Australian wines are still going from strength to
strength.
Well, they are. Has that surprised you at all?
RD: No. No, it has not surprised me. I think the total success factor, and
the volume, has probably gone off much quicker than anybody expected—
the success of it. But, no, having been overseas myself on many
occasions, not in marketing but on private excursions, I found that the vin
ordinaire French, Italian, American wines are nowhere near the quality of
the vin ordinaire Australian wines. The big markets are in the lower price
range, and our wines are miles ahead in general terms of other country’s
wines. And I think it’s been one of the success factors. Yes, we’ve had our
Grange Hermitages and the popularity of some of the top Australian wines.
I hope they don’t price themselves out of the market. They’re only
available in limited quantities anyway. But they’ve also helped to play their
part in the advance of the quality of the Australian wines.
The other factor, Ray, that I very much wanted to hear your opinion
about was that through most of your time in the industry the wine
companies were owned by families. Would that be a fair comment?
RD: Oh, yes. Very much so. Very much so, yes. And very successfully
run family companies. I’m trying to think who the first takeover was.
Probably Gramps.
It was indeed.
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RD: Yalumba have held out. McWilliams have held out. And I wish them
every success, but today the industry’s changed and—well, I know the way
Hardys have done since their merger with Berri Renmano. Have gone from
strength to strength. Marketing expertises—administration and marketing
expertise—come into play, and it’s certainly paid off.
Looking back over your time in the industry, Ray, what would’ve been the largest change you have seen?
RD: I would say that it’s in packaging. The introduction of bag-in-the-box.
I think it’s been the biggest factor in helping Australians, first of all, afford
wine. The quality of the table wines in bag-in-the-box today, of course, is
far greater—and thank God—than it was when a lot of them were
introduced. But it’s only quality now that will succeed. And if there are
any companies now not prepared to put quality in bag-in-the-box they’re
going to disappear very, very quickly. Because competition is now really at
its peak.
Through your years at Hardys, did you ever have situations occur
where there was government intrusion into the industry in a big way?
RD: Only with brandy excise. No, I can’t say that the government
intruded to any degree that I can recall really was a stopping factor of
development of the industry.
Ray, it was obviously an enjoyable time for you, though. There’s no
doubt about it. You stuck at it. (Laughs)
RD: Well, I think we all like a bit of a challenge. Yes, I stuck at it. I had a
couple of other offers to leave the industry but, no, I was too involved.
And working for the company that I did, I thoroughly enjoyed the success
that they were having, and if I played my part or contributed in any small
manner I was more than happy.
So Hardys was a good place to be, was it?
RD: Hardys was a good place to be, yes.
22
Well, thank you very, very much for talking to me, Ray.
RD: You’re very welcome.
I greatly appreciated all your thoughts.