; ' -

AFR 110-14

USAF AIRGRAFT

ACGIDENT

INVESTIGATION

BOARD

24 JUNE 94

FAIRGHILD AFB, WA

8.52H AIRGRAFT

s/N 61-0026VOL 2

92 BW325 BS

INVESTIGATION OFFICERM|GHAEL G. MCCONNELL, COL, USAF

12rH iiR FoRcEGOPY NUMBER %O OF

I r I

USAF AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTIIWESTIGATION REPORT

II{DEX TAB FORM

A AF FORM 7!l - USAF MISHAP REPORTC AF FORM 71Ib - AIRCRAFT MSHAP REPORTD AF FORM Tllc- AIRCRAFT ffi AI-ID I\{ATERLAL REPORTG FLIGIIT A}fD PERSONNEL RECORDSH AFTO FORMS 78II IVIATERIAL DEFICIETICY REPORTSJ TECHMCAL AI-ID ET-IGINEERING EVALUATIONS OF N{ATERIAL (DOD)K DD FORM I75, MILITARY FLIGIIT PI-AI.IL DD FORM 365F, 1VEIGHT A}ID BAI.AI{CE CLEARA}-ICE FORM F - TACTICALM CERTIFICATE OF DAI\{AGEN TRAhISCRIPTS OF RECORDED COMMUMCATIONSO AI*[Y ADDffiONAL SLJBSTAI{TIAIfI'IGDATAREPORTSA ORDERS APPOINTING II{VESTIGATING BOARDR DTAGRAT\{S (FALLOIIT-IMPACT AREA)S PHOTOGRAPHST INDTVIDUAL FLIGIIT RECORDSV TESTMOI{Y A}TD STATEMET-ITS OF WTTNESSES

WEATTIER OBSERVATIONSSTATEMENTS OF INJT.JRY OR DEATIIDOCI]MENTS APPOINTING ACCIDENT IhN/ESTIGATION BOARDPHOTOGRAPHS NOT INCLTJDED IN PART I OF SAFETY REPORTSUPPORTING ADDITIONAL DATA

wxYzAA

LI

NAMEBrig Gcn James M' RichrrdsCol Witliam C. BrmksCol David CaPotostiCol Rictrard E. Fitrltugh Jr'Col StcPhen D. IfarperCol Michael G. RuotsalaCol Arnold L. JulichColWi[iemE. PcllerinCol llanrris F. BallogCol Richard C' WirthLt Col David E' BullockLt Col Samrrel J' CurudnghsmLt Col Richard L' DaYLt Col Robtrt J. C'rantLt Col Deruris A' HrmsingcrHQACCLt Col RaYnrond OrtizLt Col Mic,lract E' McCu[oughlvlaj Thcresa L. Cochrut419 Flight Tcst $quadron PilotsIlaj Donatd W' ThotttPsonCapt Brian D. AndcrsonCapt Stcvcn R' CarlsonCapt StcphctrA, CoPPiCapt Clem CourttcssCapt PetrrA. DmoellYCaptBrettA. Dlrytre'CaptEricM. JonesCapt David J. lauTSgf WaYne D' WimE€tt$rA Antonio Garcia Jr-Mr. Alcxandcr P. Browtttvtrs. Jodi A. MsCtechanFire Chief Robert MirasolcMr. Ifunncth C' FcarceMr. LelsndWhitelvlaj Jay P. SlaugcnhouPtMr. Derrick B. RieEEnCapt ShavmR. nffiingCapt Jesse E. Ward,IVLt Col Doyle W. Isaskllt Thomas M' AndrrsonTSEI Ru$ell E. ShucTSgtRffceA- TcstonSrA ScottA HsrrfutgtodSrA Peter E. KarlsSrA Vinccnt B. SmitsAIC JasorrL. WhiteGS-l I Ronald L. Peterscn

TAB V

TABIJOFCONTENTS

JqE.TNIEFormcr 92 BW Conman

f '.. )

STATEUENE BY

QUESfToNS

i l

BRTGADIER GENERAI, JAI{ES }[. RICIIARDS

BY COLONEL }fiCIIAEL G. ![CCONNEI.,tr,

Ql This is CoIoneI trl,ike ltcconnell, board preeldent of the

110-14 board for the B-5? accident at Fairchi ld Air Force Baee'

I{ith me is Brigadier General Riehards and trlajor 'IYson of lzt'h Air

Force. ReadY?

TYSON: Yes sir '

Q r Did you set the taPe?

TYSON: Yeahr i t ' s f ine '

Q: okay, General Richards for record keeping purPoses if

I could ask you for some baEic information? If you could give me

y o u r f u l l n a m e a n d r a n k a n d p l e a s e s p e l l y o u r l a s t n a ^ n e ?

A l J a ' u r e s } l . R i c h a r d e , R - I - C - H - A - R - D * S , B r i g a d i e r G e n e r a l .

Q :

A :

Q r

A :

Q :

Q r

Sir, could we get your duty title and where you work?

I am the Director of Long Range Power ProJectlon'

special operations ForceE, Airlift and Training ln the office of

the Secretalar of Defense wprking for the A'ssistant Secretary of

the Air Force for Acguisition

Socia1 seeuritY ntrmber, sir'

o k a f l t h e r e m a i n d e r o f t h e i n f o r m a t i o n l ' I l g e t f r o m

your exec that we need. sir, I wonder if I could get you to

confirm or not to confirm that you were at one time the wing

comrnander at the 92d gornb wing at Fairchild Air Force Base and

the approximate dates or monthsr if you were the corurander?

A : I w a s t h e c o n r n a n d e r o f t h e g Z n d B o n b W i n g a t F a i r c h i l d

b e t w e e n e a r l y A u g u s t o f l g g 2 a n d e a r l y S e p t e m b e r 1 9 9 3 .Sir, I have a statement to read to you on the

difference between a safety board and an accident board and at

the end I,lI ask you if you understand' ltty name is colonel llike

l{cConneLl. f'm appointed to conduct and accident investigation

t o g a t h e r a l l t h e f a c t s a n d c i r c r r m s t a n c e $ s u r r o u n d i n g t h e B - 5 2

accident that occurred on 24 June f994 near Fairchild 'lir Force

v - 1 . 1

{ ' )t l

Baee, this investigation is separate and apart from the safety

mishap investigation conducted under Air Force Reg L27-4' The

purpoee of this accident investigatlon is to obtain and Presers/e

aII available evidence for use in claime, Iitigation'

disciplinar-lr action, adverse administrative proceedings and for

all other puryoges. Testimony before the eafety mishap

investigation board is given with the understanding it can only

be used for mishaP prevention Pur?oses and all witnesses are

advised that the testimony will be treated in confidence'

However, testimony given in this accident investigation may be

ueed for any purPoses deemed appropriate by competent authority

and may publicty disseminated' Sir, do you understand the

difference between the safety urishap investigation and this

accident investigat'ion?

A : Y e s .

Q : A t t h i s t i m e , s i r , I ' d l i k e t o s w e a r y o u i n . D o y o usolemnly Ewear or affirm that the testimony you are about to

give

in the matter now under investigation shall be the truth, the

whole truth, and nothing but the truthr 8o help you God?

I d o .

Sir, did you know any of the crew members on the

aircraft that crashed 24 June at Fairchild?

YeB, I believe I knew alL four

Okay. Could we real quickly Just get a thumbnaiL

A :

Q ;

A I

Q :

sketch of your impressions of the professionaJism and the

aviat ion abi l i ty or av iat ion profess ional ly ' 'profees ional ism of

each of the crew members starting with I,t col Ken Huston, the

radar navigator?

A: CoJ. Ken Huston was the Ops Officer of the Bomb Squadron

while I was the Wing Connrander. I{y impression of him was a

total ly professional aviator and off icer' He did yeoman's duty

for the squadron and the wing when he was the Operations Officer

in the Bonb Squad,ron. In fact, f,t the time he was the act'ing

Operations Officer but for a long period of tiJle he was the only

v - l . 2

{ t t l

o p e r a t i o n s o f f i c e r . W e c h o s e h i m f o r t h a t j o b b e c a u s e o fhis...over some who outranked him and had more experience than

he

did but because we fert he was the most professionar and the most

capable to do the Job. And my recollection is that he did a

superb Job.

Q ; .Colonel Wolff, the Vice Wing Conmander at the time of

the accident?

Ac Colonel Wo1ff becane the Vice Corunander veay shortly

before r departed. I had never had an opPortunity to work with

Colonel wolff prior to his arrival at Fairchild and really did

not have time to get to know him professionally and get to knolrt

veraf much about hfutr '

Q r

Conunander?

A l

when I was

Q :

A r

Q :

colonel llark llcGeehan, the 325th Bomb Sguadron

t[ark McGeehan worked for me in the 524th Bomb Sguadron

a sguadron conunander at Wurtsmith back in '83, '84

time frame. He was a young co-pilot upgrading to aircraft

conunander at the time. r hired him in to Fairchild out of Air

University white I was there to bring him in to be the Operations

officer in the Bomb squadron with the thought that he would

follow on as the Squadron Cormander. When I left he was the

Operations Off icer.

Lt Col Arthur HoIIand, nicknamed Bud?

Bud HoI I . . ,and le t me go ahead and g ive you Eome.. .some

background on what I know about Bud Holland. Before arriving at

Eaj-rchild I knew nothing about Bud HoIIand. Shortly after I

arrived I think it was my vice commander at the tj-me, colone]

Larry Hinton, who in going over personalities and people within

the Wing, brought up the fact that Bud HoIIand had gotten in

trouble with a previous rring conunander because of a fly over at a

change of conunand, ceremonY.

We're aware of that '

A: It was apparently an extremely Iow fly over. And my

understanding was that he was reprimanded for that.

v - 1 . 3

( i l t l

subsequentlfr I did a local check out at Fairchi ld after

attending some academics at Castle. And I made it a point to fly

with Bud Holland. In fact, I think I flew two or three of my

upgrade rides with colonel Holland and he gave me my check ride'

My impreesion of Bud Holland flying with hirn as an instructor,

the impreeEion that I got was that he was totally one hundred

percent professional. He appeared to be one who based on his

background, obrriouely he had a }ot of experience and knowledge

but he could also fly the airplane very well' And never acted,

in my presellce, anlthing other than totally professional ' And I

would have to tell you that nothing I saw or knew about when I

waB at Fairchild led me to any other belief about Bud Holland'

Q r Arrlthing else you',d like to share as a general nature

on either Bud or any of the other individuals, sir, just overall?

A: (negative resPonse)

Q : okay, I would like to turn first to a Global Power

ltission that took place in the llarch time frame of '93 ' There

may have been more than one. I knovt there was some deploymentst

at that time but the one that we're talking about appearE to have

been a two ship, I ' l I cal l a thirty hour mission to the Fara1lons

to bomb and return. Do you recall that missionr sir?

A l Yes, f recall i t , in fact, I think i t was the

firet.. . i f rrTy memory 8er\/es me right, I think i t was the f irst

within Air Cornbat Conmand of the Global Power l'Liseione that Air

combat conunand wae bringing on line at the time.

Q r sir, after the mission was over did you ever hear any

reports or did the ops grouP coumander come to you with any

reports,..that there may have been some close, almost f ingertip

type fonnations fLown by the air crew members for picture taking

sessions, reasons?

A : N o , n o .

Ql Sir, did you ever hear that possibly that on a bomb

run, it appears to have been a low leve1 bomb run that a 50 TG

one of the instructorE cleared off and went back through the

v - 1 . 4

ri ) I I E

wheel-well to the hatch that entered, that opened into the bomb

bay to take videos of the bombs falling out over the Farallons?

A : N o .

Q : o k a y . I s t h e r e a n l t h i n g t h a t y o u c a n e h a r e w i t h u e o nthoee missions that you night have heard that

would apPear to

indicate less than profeseional airmanship that you were aware

o f ?

A l Abeolutely, nothing. There was a video taken from one

aircraft to the other that showed bombs dropping on the island'

But i t certainly waen,t in any close f ingert ip. rt aPPeared to

be signif icant separation--couldn't tel l exactly because I guess

you could zoom in or zoom out. But there stag nothing to indicate

from that video that anybody was breaching any air diecipline

whatsoever.

Q: sir, the next event I would like to talk to you is the

August ,93 air ehow which wouJd have been within a week or two

prior to your departure, I believe, from Fairchild' I was

wondering if you can recall who you looked to frorn your

perspective in the Wing to coordinate air show activities or if

your little bit uncertain there, who would you look to coordinate

the f ly over, oPS Part, of rvhat I ' l I caII the air show?

A :

Q r

I would have looked to my operations Group commander.

o k a y . S i r , d o y o u r e c a l l h a v i n g a - - a n d I ' I I u s e m y

tem, this is not anlthing I picked uP--a round-table review of

air show planning whether it rvould be for the entire wing or just

the operations side?

Ar I'm sure we had several meetings on how the' ' 'it was a

big open house we had an awful lot of aircraft on the rElmp

There were ngmerous aircratt that were going to f1y that day' As

I recall we had the BD-9 or BD-Lo f lew a couple of t imes. The

Thunderbirds ltere involved in this air show, they were the final

at the end of the day. So, YeE, I ' i l1 sure we had severa]" ' I had

several brief ings on how the whole thing wouLd be Iaid out'

v - r . 5

{ ' ld l

Q : D o y o u r e c a l l a n y d i e c u e e i o n s n o w o n F A A w a i v e r s o r A i rConbat Conurand approval for the

maneuvers? I've really asked two

questions therer let me back off and Just ask one' Can you

r e c a l l n o w a t h i s p o i n t a n y E t a t e m e n t a o r p r e s e n t a t i o n s t o y o u o n

whether or not FAA waivers had been obtained?

Ar I 'm sure that I recall asking if everything' all

w a i v e r s o r w h a t e v e r w a s n e c e s s a r y v ' a s c o m p l e t e d a n d i n f a c t , T

think r recall seeing message traffic for approvar' r don't

r e c a l l t ' h e s p e c i f i c s b u t l w a s . ' ' I d o r t , t t h i n k t h e r e w a s a n yquestion in my mind at the time that everft'hing

had been approved

that we \,tere going to carry out that day'

Q: l{ight as well step right towards I'IA^ICOM approval' sir'

r took your last statement to mean that also that you would have

felt that the lving I'tas in compliance with Air combat criteria as

it was expresaed to You?

A: Absolutely'

Q l o k a y . S i r , c o u l d y o u r e c a l l w h e t h e r o r n o t i t w o u l d b ethe same person or a different person who would

be responsible

for coordinating with Air combat cormand? And let me give a

r a t h e r l e n g t h y p r e l u d e t ' o t h a t q u e s t i o n w h i l e y o u r e f l e c t o n i t '

There,s obviously some FAA waiverS required for air showst even

t h e T h u n d e r b i r d s r e q u i r e a n F A A w a i v e r . A t t h e s a n e t i m e

depending,..there are some things that require Air cornbat command

approval to do. There are some thinge which are allowed for the

wing comnander to assume responsibility to do' who do you

believe or can you recall now who you would have looked too' to

provide the staff advice to you on whether or not you had

authority to grant certain things or trhether or not that you aII

vrere required to go to Air conbat colmandt can you recall who you

rnight have looked to?

Ar I wae looking to the ope group cotmander'

Q: Do you recall any discussions with your oPs grouP

conunander on that subJect of whether or not you would have been

r e g u i r e d t o g o t o A i r C o r n b a t C o r r u n a n d f o r a p p r o v a l ?

v - l . 5

(1 r

A l l d o r e c a l l a c o l l . . . I d o r e c a l l d i r e c t i n g t h e o p s G r o u p

cormnander to ad,vise me that alr requirements were satisfied for

t h e a i r e h o w . I { h e t h e r o r n o t w e s p e c i f i c a l l y d i s c u E e e d o r l

aeked him specifically about a approval from Air courbat cormnand'

I do not recall. But I do recall very well that after our

m e e t i n g s a n d d i s c u s s i o n g t h a t l f e l t . . . I f e l t v e l * ] r c o m f o r t a b } et h a t e v e r l t h i n g t h a t r e q u i r e d a p p r o v a l h a d b e e n a P p r o v e d a n d a l l

actionsr necessar'y actions had been taken'

Q : o k a y . S i r , I w o u l d l i k e t o s t e P t o t h e a i r s h o w a n dt h e B - 5 2 p r o f i } e . C a n y o u r e c a l l n o w o r g i v e u e a s e n s i n g o f

what you remember of the B-52 profile? end let me tie on a

second question. can you recall who the miEsion conurander was

for that '93 air show?

A : B u d H o l l a n d w a s f l y i n g t ' h e a i r y l a n e . T h e r e ' g . . . I d o n ' t

know if this would have any bearing on yourr or what your rookirtg

for. As r recall the day before the fright, r think the squadron

c o m n a n d e r w a s g o i n g t o f l y i n t h e r i g h t s e a t a n d H o l l a n d w a s

g o i n g t o b e i n t h e l e f t s e a t . I d o n ' t r e c a l l w h o e l s e w a s o n t h e

airplane. But the reason I remember t'hat ie because there was a

incident the day prior came to light that had to do wi-th child

molesting, does that have anlt'hing to do " '?

Q :

you had

really

A :

Q :

A r

about. And I do not recall who was in

witl butcher his nasre but it was M'ajor

Sir, we're very fanil iar with that and" 'I

to make a substitution and the rationale and

see a need to Pursue unless ' ' '

O k a y , I ' 1 1 j u s t . "

Yeah tOkay, thought that rnight be

t l

know that

I d o n ' t

something You didn't know

the r ight seat. 0: I

J a y S l a v e n . . h o u f . .

I have thought long and

occurred. A.s I recall

air and when the B-52

A :

Q :

SlaughenhouPt

Slaugenhoupt, Y€s.

A: Now I will also telI You that

hard about that day since this accident

the B-52 there was also a tanker in the

v - I . 7

t l( t : I

would come by and then the tanker woul'd come by and they flew by

several times as I recall. But during that part of the air show

I v ' a s i n v o l v e d w i t h t h e T h u n d e r b i r d E . W e w e r e g e t t i n g r e a d yt o . . ' t h l s w a e t o w a r d s t h e e n d . T h e y w e r e b r i e f i n g m e s o l E ' a wp a r t s o f t h i s a i r e h o w b u t l w a e n o t p a y i n g g r e a t a t t e n t l . o n l ' I I

h a v e t o t e l l y o u . A g a i n , I , v e t h o u g h t l o n g a n d h a r d a b o u t w h a t

i t i s l r e m e m b e r a b o u t t h a t . . ' t h o e e f l y b y s . I r e c a l l t h e B - 5 2

c a m e b y o n o n e p a E s i n f r o n t o f t h e c r o w d ' n o t a t l o w a l t i t u d e '

but did a sweeping turn in f ront of the crolvd '

Q :

A l

Do you recall the bank angle, sir?

r . . . I would have to say i t was thir ty to for ty f ive

I r e c a l l . . . r d i d n ' t s e e t h a t . B u t l d o r e c a l l t h a t

o f t h e . . . o f t h e s c e n a r i o '

Aftenrvards do you recall any discussion on any Part of

degrees of bank.

et Do you recatl any discussion with your operations group

cormnander on permitted bank angles in the pattern and whether or

not they may have taLked to Acc about a waiver for bank angle?

A : we didn,t talk about specif ic bank angles but againt I

would have to be clear.., I made it absolutely clear that

everlthing that was going to be done in this demonetration was

going to have to be on the up and up and in accordance with tech

order and in accordance with the regulations. And I was sure

that i t was.

Sir, in the Parts or glimpsee that you got of the air

show, do you recall a high speed Pass down the nrnway and

a. . .what I wi I I use my tetmts. . .a h igh p i tch up c l imb to a l t i tude?

Q r

A l

being Part

Q :

the air shows that people may have brought to you concerned about

i t or what some of the maneuvers looked l ike? I f " ' I ' I1 lead a

guestion here which technically I shouldn't, one crew member on

rhe flight eetimated that pitch uP naneuver might have been as

h i g h a s e i g h t y d e g r e e s . N o o n e e v e r b r o u g h t t h a t t o y o u r

attention?

Ar Nobody brought that to my attention' no'

v - 1 . 8

Q :

A :

( ' ) t l

Okayr s i r '

Eighty degrees r rlo'

Q : S i r , w h e t h e r o r n o t t h a t ' s c o r r e c t t h a t w a s h i si m p r e s s i o n . f h e r e w a s a n o t h e r m e m b e r o n i t w h o e s t i m a t e d a b o v e

f i f t y p r o b a b l y a b o v e s i x t y , b u t n o t e i g h t y . A r r d h e w o u l d b e a t a

more credibte poeit ion to obserye it . The' "wel1, i f you don't

r e c a l l i t o r t h e y d i d n , t b r i n g i t t o Y o r l r i t w o u l d b e f r u i t } e s s

t o g o o n a n d d e e c r l . b e s o m e o f t h e o t h e r s t h e r e , m a n e u v e r g o r

e v e r l t ' h i n g . S i r , d o y o u r e c a l l w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e w i n g h a d a n y

practice missions prior to the air sholft for the crew to get

familiar with the Profile?

I think they did'

Do you recall whether or not You

N o .

night have seen anY of

Q : o k a y . S i r , o n e o f t h e . . ' I r , v o u l d l i k e t o s t e p b a c kto the Global Power lttissions. one of the individuals

who was

familiar with the mission and the planning and was on the flight'

r believe that was correct, said that the instructions given to

coronel HorLand were that he was to go out and get Eome good

pictures and that those instructions came from you' Do you

recall that?

A ;

Q r

them?

A r

A :

Q :

A :

help

Q r

I d o n ' t .

Sir, is there anlt'hing that Irou can teII the board or

or how smal] that You thinkshare the board no matter how strange

nright assiet us in our investigation?

No, I think I've related everlt'hing

to you. Can't think of anlthing else'

That , s i r , wi l l conclude i t '

that wouJd be of

v - l , 9

t l

STATEMENT BY COL WILLIAI'{ C ' BROOKS

QUESTIONS BY COL MIKE MCCONNELL

This is CoI Mike McConnelJ, board president of the 110-

With me is CoL Brooks' CoI Brooks' could I have your

and spe1l your last nane please just for record keeping

v .

14 board-

fulf nane

purposes . '

A :

s t i I l

A :

Wi I l i an

S i r r do

in the Qs?

I f m a t j

C1ine Brooks ' B-R-O-O-K*S '

you have a current home address or are you

ust the daY before YesterdaV' F

Q :

have i t?

A :

Home Phone number and an off ice Phone ntlnber i f You

The of f ice phone I 'm work ing out o f r ight now is

( 6 0 2 ) ? 5 0 - 4 7 6 8 -

Q : W i t h u s a l s o i s M a j o r G a r y T y s o n o f t h e 1 2 A F l e g a ls t a f f . C o l B r o o k s , I | v e g o t a s t a t e m e n t t o r e a d t , o y o u a n d a t

t h e e n d l l l f a s k y o u i f y o u u n d e r s t a n d . I ' m C o I M i k e M c C o n n e } I '

i lm appointed to conduct an accident invest igat ion to gather al l

the facts and circumstances surrounding the aircraft accj-dent

that occurred' on 24 ,June 1994 near Fairchi ld Air Force Baser

washington. This invest igat ion is separate and apart f rom the

safety Mishap Invest igat ion conducted under Air Force Reg Lz' l -4 '

T h e p u r p o s e o f t h i s a c c i d e n t i n v e s t i g a t i o n i s t o o b t a i n a n d

preserve al l avai lable evidence for use in c la ims' I i t igat ion'

discipl inary act ion, adverse administrat ive proceedings and for

a ] . l o t h e r p u r p o s e s . T e s t i m o n y b e f o r e t h e s a f e t y m i s h a p

invest igat ion board is qiven with the understanding that i t can

o n l y b e u s e d f o r m j - s h a p p r e v e n t i o n p u r p o s e s a n d a } l w i t n e s s a r e

a d v i s e d t h a t t h e t e s t i m o n y w i l l b e t r e a t e d i n c o n f i d e n c e .

However, test imony given in th is accident invest igat ion may be

used for any purposes deemed appropriate by the competent

v - 2 . 1

a u t h o r i t y a n d m a y b e p r r b l i c l y d i s s e m i n a t e d . D o y o u u n d e r s t a n d

t h e d ' i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n t , h e s a f e t y m i s h a p i n v e s t i g a t i o n a n d t h i s

accident investigation?

f l t

Y e s , I b e l i e v e l d o '

t n

you in' Do You

are about to give

the truth, the

you God?

A I

Q r Okayr at this

solemnlY swear or affirm

in the matter now under

whole truth and nothing

t ime, I 'd l i ke to swear

that the testimonY You

invest igat ion shal l be

but the truth, so helP

A : I d o '

Q : S i r , t h e f i r s t g u e s t i o n l w o u l d h a v e f o r y o u i s l ' dl i k e t o g e t y o u r s e n s i n g o f t h e p r o f e s s i o n a l i s m a n d a v i a t i o n

a b i l i t y o f t h e c r e w m e m b e r s a n d i f i t d o e s n ' t b o t h e r Y o U l I ' d

] ike to start wi th CoI Huston?

A: Okay, CoI Huston' Ops Off icer 325th Bonb Squadron'

r a d a r n a v i g a t o r t l f i r s t m e t K e n H u s t o n d o w n a t N e } l i s a s t h e ,

w h e n l w a s t h e r e a s t h e G r e e n F l a g c o m m a n d e r . T h e g Z d B o m b t { i n g

w a s d o w n t h e r e p a r t i c i p a t i n g i n t h a t e x e r c i s e . H e b r i e f e d a

c o u p l e o f t h e g o e s d o w n t h e r e a t G r e e n F l a g , t h e f l y i n g

o p e r a t i o n s . V e r y p r o f e s s i o n a l a l s o . T h a t w a s m y f i r s t m e e t i n g

with him- In meeting him and being around him at Fairchild'

Ken

w a s a ] . w a y $ v e r y ' v e r y p r o f e s s i o n a l ' v e r y m e t i c u ] . o u s i n t h e w a y h e

dressed and acted' Was an outstanding ops of f icer as far as I

could te l l - The crews appeared to l ike him' he was knowledgeable

about what everybody was doing. He was knowledgeabte about the

f a m i l i e s a n d t h e c r e w | s i n t e r e s t a S t h e y w e n t t h r o u g h . H e w a s

very much a church person' Very close with the church that

he

w a s i n a n d h a d a v e r y g o o d S e n s e o f h u m o r . A l w a y s o n t h e l l g h t

s ide of making things appear to be very good and very up beat '

I l m n o t r e a ] * s u r e l e v e r f } e w w i t h K e n . E v e r y t i m e t h a t l h i r d t h e

o p p o r t u n i t y t o f l y ' I d i d g o d o w n i n t o t h e n a v s t a t i o n s ' b o l l h t h e

radar and the nav stations down there and watch their area and

p a r t i c i p a t e i n t h e w h o l e c r e w t h i n g b e c a u s e l w a s s t a f f f } i . e r

t h e r e , n o t p r o f i c i e n t t o b e a c o m b a t c r e w m e m b e r . s o l w o u l d f l y

and then participate all aroUnd t'he aircraft to make sure I could

v-2.2

I t D( ' l

see what people were doing' My comment to Ken Huston was he

was

a l w a y s o n e t h a t w a s V € r l l v e r y m e t i c u l o u s i n d o i n g t h e r i g h t

thing and very proactive in doing those things'

Q : S i r l I | m m o v i n g u p t h e c o c k p i t a s y o u p r o b a b l y S e n s e .

Co I Wo l f f ?

A : C o I B o b W o t f f . I t ' s h a r d t o t ' a l k a b o u t B o b e v e r y o n c e

i n a w h i l e b e c a u s e o f h i s d e a t h . B o b a n d l s p e n t a l o t o f h o u r s

r i g h t n e x t E o e a c h o t h e r t h e r e . I h a d n o t k n o w n B o b W o l f f b e f o r e

I g o t t o F a i r c h i l d . A } t h o u g h l s h o u l d h a v e b e c a u s e h e a n d l w e n f

to Texas Tech at the salne t ime and we graduated around the same

t ime. Did not know each other there for obv ious reasons, 20,000

p l u s a t t h e s c h o o l b u t a v e r y s t r o n g c a m a r a d e r i e a s s o c i a t i o n

because we were f rom the same univers i ty to s tar t o f f wi th , both

Red Raiders, both from Texas' Bs the vice commander and wi-ng

commander, kind of a unique thing to have happen so we hit i t off

v e r y w e l f a n d t h e f a m i } i e s d i d , t o o . N a n a n d m y w i f e K a t h y . B o b

w a s a n o u t s t a n d i n g v i c e w i n g c o m m a n d e r , f o r m e . V e r y h a r d

worki.ng guy. Very mature guy' And the IG system and everything

t h a t w a s g o i n g o n a t t h e b a s e , h e w a s v e r y p r o a c t i v e . A n d i n

environmental issues, volunteered and went to Minot and went

through an environmental aspect up there and was very much

p r o a c t i v e i n t r y i n g t o i n i t i a t e t h e p r o g r a m s a r o u n d t h e b a s e t h a t

I w a s V e r y c o n c e r n e d a b o u t , e n v i r o n m e n t a l . H e w a s a c t i v e l y g o i n g

out spreading safety and through the immersion program that ACC

h a s , g o i n g o u t a n d t a } k i n g t o t h e t r o o p s a n d m a k i n g s u r e w e w e r e

i m p r o v i n g t h e b a s e a n d d o i n g t h e r i g h t t h i n g . B u t h e w o r k e d a

l o t o f d a y i n a n d d a y o u t t h i n g s t h a t t o o k t h e s t r e s s o f f o f m y

of f ice and he d id that very profess ionarry . r do not know of any

i n c i d e n t i n w h i c h B o b W o l f . f w a s i n c h a r g e o f t h a t w a s n o t d o n e

extremeLy wer ] . We had some very in terest ing th ings goj 'ng on '

un ion . , .we have a un ion a t Fa i r ch i l d ' wo rk ing those ' c j - v i l i an

draw ciowns, working those problems, very mature individual that

was abre to negot ia te wi th a l r those t lpes of problems. rG

comp}aints , very few IG compla ints at Fai rch i ld . We were notr

v - 2 . 3

r li

having to work any congress ionals , he d id work very c losely wi th

m e o n a n i n d i v i d u a l w h o r e f u s e d t o k e e p f r o m l i v i n g o u t o f h i s

c a r o n m y b a s e . T h e r e w a s a r e t i r e d g u y a n d s o w e w o r k e d c l o s e l y

wi th the Governor and $enator Foley 's of f iCe and those k ind of

s tuf f to reassure them that we were not k ick ing the homeLess out '

T h a t w e j u s t h a d h i g h s t a n d a r d s o n t h e b a s e a n d s o h e ' S w o r k e d

t h a t v e r y t e n u o u s i s s u e v e r y w e l l a n d t a l k e d t o a l o t o f p e o p l e

in Washington and those t lpe of things' Bob was very in tune

with the upper echelon part of workj-ng high level matters ' I Ie

had worked for Genera l orMara at Nor fo lk there at LANTCOM and was

e n r o u t e t o g o w o r k f o r h i m a g a i n a t D e f e n s e M a p p i n g A g e n c y .

T h a t l s t h e c o m p e t e n c e l e v e l G e n e r a l o | M a r e p l a c e d i n h i - m a n d I

k n o w G e n e r a } o | M a r e v e r y w e J l , I w o r k e d f o r h i m . A n d i f t h a t

ind.ividual placed that much confidence in you' then you are a

good person, a very s t rong person ' Bob was very good' I

respected Bobts aviation experience and when anything came up

that wouLd be of quest ion whatso€v€rr in a meet ing or s tuf f l ike

t h a t , I , d k i n d o f l o o k o v e r a t B o b t o k i n d o f d o a s a n i t y c h e c k '

he had a lo t o f t ime in a B-52 ' h€ had a lo t o f combat t ime in a

B - 5 2 . U n } i k e m y s e l f , I h a d v e r y l i t t ] e t i m e i n a B - 5 2 . H e w a s

k i n d o f o n e o f t h e g u y s l | d t u r n t o a n d l o o k a n d i f h e f e l t

c o m f o r t a b t e a n d l o o k e d a t i t l i k e t h i s , W € p r e s s e d o n a n d t h e n

discussed i t a } i t t le b i t la ter to make sure I was fu l ly invol 'ved

in what was going on. But he did an e:{ceptionatly good job as my

v ice there .Great , I knew h im Personal lY ' I

would echo everYthing

you said. CqI Mark McGeehan?

A : M a r k r t h e f i r s t t i m e l e v e r m e t M a r k a l s o w a s g e t t i n g

to Fai rch i ld . A l though these guys have been around in the B-52

community for a white, mY background would be mainly in the FB-

l l l w o r l d . S o h a d l m e t M a r k M c G e e h a n , i t m i g h t h a v e b e e n i n

p a s s i n g . I c o u t d n o t t e l l y o u . M a r k w a s t h e o p s o f f i c e r t h e r e .

H a d b e e n i n t h e s q u a d r o n . V e r y w e ] . l t h o u g h t o f i n d i v i d u a l .

Generar Richards, i f there is any one th ing that Genera l Richards

v - 2 . 4

. rr\I Lf l t

passed on to me is that he was to be the next bornb squadron

commander because he was in ]ine to do that' 9ile

wanted to get

Mark promot,ed to coroner and being the squadron commander

was

v e r y i m p o r t a n t t h a t t h a t w o u l d b e t h e s t e p t o g o - I t o l d G e n e r a l

R i c h a r d s l w o u } d c o n t i n u e t o l o o k a t t h a t a n d l d i d a n d t h e f i r s t

a v a i l a b l e o p p o r t u n i t y , w e p } a c e d h i r n a s t h e s q u a d r o n c o m m a n d e r

there as confidence' I had the opportunity to

go to Alaska when

M a r k M c G e e h a n w a s t h e D e t C o m r n a n d e r f o r t h e A l a s k a n e x e r c i s e u p

there. I f lew on the airplane up there' Mark was already

up

there, had got the l i t t le Det set up' I stayed a couple

of days

t h e r e , f J e w t h r e e s o r t i e s o u t o f t h e r e , w e n t t o t h e b r i e f i n q | s 'walked around, watched him'

to ld him that I was not there to be

i n c h a r g e o f a n y t h i n g , I w a s t h e r e t o w a t c h B - 5 2 o p e r a t i o n s a n d

t o s e e h o w a d e p } o y e d u n i t o u t o f F a i r c h i l d w o u ] . d o p e r a t e , f r o m

a I } a s p e c t s , m a i n t e n a n c e , o P s , t h e a b i l i t y t o d o t h e m i s s i o n . I

w a s v e r y p } e a s e d w i t h w h a t M a r k w a s d o i n g u p ' t h e r e . H e w a s o n e

o f t h o s e g u y s t h a t . . . i n f a c t l h a d t o t e } I h i r n t o b a c k o f f a

l i t t l e b i t b e c a u s e h e w a n t e d t o b e u p 2 4 h o u r s a d a y t h r o u g h o u t

t h e w h o l e e x e r c i s e a n d t h a t h e n e e d e d t o p a c e h i m s e ] . f a l i t t l e

bit to be with maintenance' to be with ops and those kind

of

t h i n g s . G i v i n g t h e m a l i t t l e b i t o f i n s i g h t t h e r e . B u t M a r k w a s

very professional ' He was an academy grad' he was spi t and

p o l i s h . H e w a s p r o b a b l y . . . g a v e t h e p e r c e p t i o n o f b e i n g o n e o f

t h e m o s t s t r a i g h t a r r o w , s t r a i g h t l a c e d t y ? e o f g u y s t h a t y o u

c o u ] . d p o s s i b l y b e a r o u n d . H e w a s a v e r y s t r o n g f a m i l y m a n .

P laYed so f tba l l w i th h is k ids '

Q: Great , CoJ Ho l ]and?

A: Bud Hol land also' even though Bud has got a ]ot of

hours in a B-52, I had not met Bud unt i t I arr ived there

at

Fairchi ld ' As a matter of fact ' Bud was probably one of the

f i r s t p e o p l e , a v i a t o r t l p e s , t h a t l w a s a s s o c i a t e d w i t h b e c a u s ewhen I f irst got there, I had been

out of the cockpit for about

1 . 2 - 1 ' 3 m o n t h s . T w e l v e m o n t h s w a s a s h o r t t h e r e a t A C C f o r a b o u t

]'0 months, headed out to Fairchi].d and Bud was assigned to go out

v - 2 . 5

( : t r f r

and get me bacl< up to speed and qual i fy me as a staf f f l ier '

So

I f } e w m y i n i t i a l s o r t i e s t h e r e a t F a i r c h i } d w i t h B u d H o } l a n d .W e w e n t t h r o u g h t h e c r e w b r i e f i n g s a n d m i s s i o n p } a n n i n g s e g m e n t s

a n d a } l t h o s e k i n d o f t h i n g s a n d s o h e ' s p r o b a b f y o n e o f t h e

f i rst avi .ators that r reaLly rnet and f lew with- Probably the

guy

I f } e w w i t h m o s t o f t h e w h o l e t i m e l w a s t h e r e . I f l e w w i t h t h e

d e p u t y o p s g r o u p c o m m a n d e r a n d s g u a d r o n c o m m a n d e r t h e r e a n d a

c o u p l e o t h e r l P s b u t r n a i n l y , m o s t o f t h e t i m e i t s e e m s } i k e t h e y

s e n t B u d o u t w i t h m e t o f t y . B u d w a s a v e r y c o m f o r t a b } e p e r s o n

i n t h e a i r p l a n e . H e a n d l t a l k e d f o r a l o n g t i m e t h e f i r s t

c o u p l e o f t i m e s t h a t w e g o t t o g e t h e r b e c a u s e i t g a v e m e t h e

o p p o r t u n i t y t o t a ] k t o h i m a s t h e c h i e f o f m y S t a n , / E v a l , o r

real ly the Ops Group's Chief of Stan/EvaL on what I k ind of

had

as expectat ions for stan/Eval and for lowing regulat ions, doi 'ng

a l l t h o s e k i n d o f t h i n g s . A n d w h e n w e b r i e f e d w e t a l k e d a b o u t

I im i ta t ions . I , ve never been in S tan /Eva] - , I ' ve a lways been an

i n s t r u c t o r n o t a n e v a l u a t o r t h r o u g h o u t m y c a r e e r a n d w e t a } k e d

a b o u t l P s a n d p e o p l e f l y i n g w i t h e a c h o t h e r a n d i n a c r e w c o n c e p t

ty?e of a i rp lane, that the crew concept t lpe airplane' the

w e a k e s t l i n k i s w h a t y o u h a v e t o f i n d i n t h a t c r e w a n d t h e n y o u

fIy to that weak l ink. And then we talked about that ext 'ensively

y o u k n o w t h a t w e h a v e p e o p l e t h a t k n o w h o w t o f l y t h e a i r p l a n e '

we have peopte that donrt know' But you always have to fly to

t h e } e v e l o f t h e p e o p l e t h a t d o n t t k n o w g r r i t e a t l t h e i n s a n d

o u t s . A n d d u r i n g m y c h e c k o u t a n d t h r o u g h t h a t a n d w i t h t h e

crews that I f ] .ew with, I used mysel f as the example. I said,

' ' I

may be the wing commander' but once we sit down in mission

p l a n n i n g r l ' m n o t t h e w i n g c o m m a n d e r ' f a m t h e w e a k l i n k o n t h i s

crew because r am not fu l ly knowredgeabl .e of every aspect of the

B - 5 2 b e c a u s e l h a v e v e r y l i r n i t e d e x p e r i e n c e i n i t . S o t h e r e f o r e

y o u c a n ' t s a y t o o m u c h ' y o u c a n t t g u i d e m e t o o m u c h ' Y o u c a n ' t

teI I me too mueh, VoU can|t teach me too much' And you can|t

feet ] ike that i f you tel l me something, that I 'm going to look

a t y o u a n d s E s r ' f k n o w ' t h a t ' I ' r l a c o l o n e l . ' ' T h a t f s n o t t h e

v - 2 . 6

i - rI L( i t

p e r s p e c t i v e t h a t l w a n t t o h a v e , n o r d i d l w a n t a n y b o d y t h a t w a s

f r o m F a i r c h i l d t h r o u g h S t a n / E v a t a n d t h e r e s t o f t h e f o l k s t h e r e

ever to have that feel ing' Once you get in the airplane'

i t rs

based on the capabi l i t ies of the peopre in the airplane'

But you

s h o u } d a } w a y s f o c u s t o m a k e s u r e e v e r y b o d y i s o n t h e s a m e p a g e

t h e s a m e d a y . I t r i e d t o i t e r a t e t h a t a l o t t h r o u g h s t a n / E v a l

a n d t h r o u g h a l l t h e T R P s , a n d a } I t h o s e t h i n g s a s w e l o o k t h e r e '

i f t h e r e w a s s o m e b o d y t h a t m i s s e d a r e f u e l i n g o r m i s s e d a l o w

level or something, t 'here was no fear of reprisa} from me

and I

m a d e t h a t k n o w n t h r o u g h t h e V i c e a n d t h e o p s G r o u p C o m m a n d e r a n d

t h e C h i e f o f S t a n / E v a l a n d s t u f f l i k e t h a t . I f y o u c o u l d n o t

c o m p l e t e t h a t s o r t i e o r c o m p l e t e t h a t e v e n t b e c a u s e e v e r y b o d y i n

t h a t a i r p l a n e w a s n , t o n t h e S a l n e p a g e o n t h e s a m e d * y , w e | r e D o t

a t war , we ' l I do i t aga in ' We can do i t the nex t day ' o r the

n e x t o r t h e n e x t o r w h a t e v e r ' . B u d f } e w t h e a i r p } a n e a n d t a l k i n g

a b o u t h o w B u d f } e w t h e a i r p } a n e , w i t h m e i n a ] l t h e c a s e s , B u d

f l e w t h e a i r p l a n e v e r y p r e c i s e l y ' I ' v e b e e n a s k e d b y n u m e r o u s

indiv iduaLs you know, would I character izer especial ly the

press

a n d t h o s e f o l k s u p a r o u n d t h e r e l d $ B u d a s b e i n g a n a g g r e s s i v e

pi 'ot . compared to a brand new guy, eur guy that doesn' t

have. . ,compared to me in f l y ing the a i rp lane, Bud wou ld be

c o n s i d e r e d t o b e a g g r e s s i v e b e c a u s e h e d e m a n d e d t h e a i r p l a n e f l yp r e c i s e l y . F u } l w e l l k n o w i n g t h a t i n a B - 5 2 , t o f ] . y p r e c i s e } y l o n

air speed and al t i tude around a t raf f ic pattern ' especial ly in

S p o k a n e a r e a t h e r e w h e r e y o u h a v e f l a t d r y a r e a s a n d r i v e r s a n d

a } } t h a t k i n d o f s t u f f i s d e m a n d i n g . A n d i t i s a h a r d j o b . I t

i s t h e m o s t w o r k e d a i r p } a n e l | v e e v e r f } o w n i n m y e n t i r e l i f e .

Y o u a r e w o r k i n g . I h a v e a l w a y s b e e n e x t r e m e l y t i r e d Q n c e l g o t

t h r o u g h b e c a u s e l a } w a y s t r y t o p r i d e m y s e l f i n b e i n g t h a t t y p e

of p i lo t . very aggress ive and " 'p rec is ion ' very aggress ive and

b e i n g p r e c i s e i n m a k i n g t h e a i r p l a n e d o e x a c t l y w h a t y o u w a n t t h eairplane to clo and being ahead of

the airplane ' So I

character ize Bud as that tpe of p i lot ' He was very ' very

k n o w } e d g e a b l e o f t h e w e a F o n s s y s t e m . P r o b a b l y t h e m o s t

v-2.7

I E( t

k n o w } e d g e a b l e g u y s l , v e f } o w n w i t h i n t h e B - S 2 o p e r a t i o n s a n d l

had some instructors at the 99th doing tactics and t 'hey were

v e r } r v e r y k n o w l e d g e a b } e . I w o u l d p u t B u d i n t h e i r c a t e g o r y a s

one of the most knowredgeabre fofks. very comfortable- Very at

e a s e i n t h e a i r p l a n e a s f a r a s b e i n g a b ] - e t o h a n d l e e v e r y t h i n g

tha t ,s go ing on . $ i tua t iona l awareness type o f " 'who was

talking, .who needed to be tarking, what was going on and

handring

a 1 ] . t h o s e ' S o l c h a r a c t e r i z e B u d a s b e i n g V e r y p r o f i c i e n t ' v e r y

capable in the airplane' very knowledgeable and aggressive in the

aspect o f p rec is ion , o f be ing ab le to do tha t '

Q : o k a y , s i r l n e e d p r o b a b l y a s g o o d a s t i m e a s a n y t ot u r n t o w a r d s t h e a c c i d e n t a n d t h e p l a n n i n g a n d w i t h t h a t l n e e d

to stop for a moment and read you your rights'

A : O k a Y '

Q : M y n a m e i s C o l M i k e M c C o n n e l ] . , I a m i n v e s t i g a t i n g t h efacts and circumstances surrounding the

aircraf t accident that

occurred on 24 June near Fairchi ld Air Force Base and have reason

to suspec t you o f the a l leged o f fense o f v io la t ion o f Ar t i c le 9? '

U C M J , v i o l a t i o n o f r e g u l a t i o n s o r d e r e } i c t i o n o f d u t y . I a d v i s e

you that under the provisions of Article 31, ucl4J, you have the

r ight to remaj-n s i lent ' that is to say nothing at aI I ' Arrything

you do say may be used as evidence against you in a t r ia l by

c o u r t m a r t i a l o r i n o t h e r j u d i c i a t o r a d m i n i s t r a t i v e p r o c e e d i n g s .

I a d . v i s e y o u a l s o t h a t y o u h a v e t h e r i g h t t o c o n s u } t w i t h a

Iawyer if you desire and to have a lawyer present dUring this

interview. you may obtain a c iv i l - ian rawyer of your own choosing

a t n o e x p e n s e t o t h e g o v e r n m e n t o r i f y o u w i s h t h e A i r F o r c e w i l }

a p p o i n t a m i l i t a r y l a w y e r t o y o u f r e e o f c h a r g e - Y o u m a y r e q u e s t r

a l a w y e r a E a n y t i m e d u r i n g t h i s i n t e r v i e w a n d i f y o u d e c i d e t o

answer quest ions wi thout a lawyer present, you may stop the

suest ioning at any t ime. Do you understand your r ights, s i r?

A :

n .

I beL reve r do .

Okay. Do you wish to remain s i lent or wi l l you answer

my quest ions?

v * 2 . 8

t'liI td;

A : I w i } l a n s w e r y o u r g u e s t i o n s t o t h e b e s t o f m y a b i l i t y ,

Q : W o u l d y o u l i k e a l a w y e r p r e s e n t f o r t h e r e m a i n d e r o fthe interview'

A: I have consul ted wi th CaPt

present. I am recording this on his

answer Your quest ions'

Q l T h e f i r s t q u e s t i o n l h a v e s i r , i s w h o p i c k e d t h e c r e wfor the a. i r show, the rgg4 air

showr ]et me be speci f ic?

A : T h e c r e w i s a c t u a l l y p i c k e d l b e } i e v e d b y t h e o p s g r o u P

commander. rt may be a meeting that they had or whatever to

decide. I t was kind of decided by who was remaining' to be

h o n e s t w i t h Y o U r w e w e r e d o w n t o h a v i n g v e r y f e w p i l o t s o n t h e

base because we had brought the airpranes down to where there was

only one airplane lef t on the base and there were very few

p i } o t s . I t h i n k t h e f o l k s t h a t w e r e p i c k e d t o f l y t h e a i r s h o w

were picked because they were remaining pi lots and radar navs '

They wanted to f ly the air show' And they were the most

exper ienced.

Q : S o y o u a r e n o t a w a r e o f a n y s p e c i a } c r i t e r i a t h a t t h eo p s g r o u p c o m m a n d e r u s e d o r y o u d o n ' t r e c a ] . I g i v i n g h i m a n y

special cr i ter ia for the air show?

A : Y o u a s k e d t w o q u e s t i o n s t h e r e . T h e f i r s t q u e s t i o n i s

a m l a w a r e o f a n y c r i t e r i a t h a t t h e o P s g r o u p c o m m a n d e r h a d f o rp i c k i n g t h e c r e w ? N o l a m n o t a w a r e o f a n y c r i t e r i a t h e r e . } \ n y

g u i d a n c e f r o m m e t o t h e o p s g r o u p c o m m a n d e r f o r t h e c r e w . I d i d

g i v e s o m e g u i d a n c e i n t h e e s s e n c e o f a b r i e f i n g t h a t s a i d w e

w a n t e d t o m a k e s u r e t h a t w e h a d t h e r i g h t p e o p l e f l y i n g t h e

a i r p l a n e a n d t h a t t h e p e o p l e w e r e c u r r e n t , p r o f i c i e n t a n d

e x p e r i e n c e d s o t h a t t h e r e w a s a g o o d s a f e t y m a r g i n . F o r

c o m f o r t a b i } i t y . . . f o r i t t o b e v e r y c o m f o r t a b l e f o r u s t o h a v e t h e

air show.

Q ;

have some

that were

(!

Scot t w inne- He is no t

advisement. I an readY to

r have here, feel f ree i f you have to }ook at them' I

s } i d e s t h a t l | v e b e e n i n f o r m e d w e r e s o m e o f t h e s l i d e spresented to you in a br ief ing on or about

L5 June

v -2 .9

I r l *f l t

can conf i r rn them. Here's some paper copies' they di f fer

a

1 i t t , Ie .

A : Yeah, I recognize" ' that looks l ike the s l ides

that

were Presented, as recol lect ions

Q : T o t h e b e s t o f y o u r k n o w l . e d g e o r r e c o l } e c t i o n , d o y o uknow who authored the sLides?

A : I d o n l t k n o w w h o a u t h o r e d t h e s l i d e s . I k n o w t h a t B u d

H o t f a n d i s t h e g u y t h a t g a v e t h i s p a r t o f t h e b r i e f i n g . W h e t h e r

t h e y w e r e a u t h o r e d b y h i m o r s o m e b o d y i n S t a n / E v a l o r s o m e b o d y i n

the ops group"'but the ops group community put the sLides up'

N o w w h o a c t u a } I y t l r y e d t h e m o u t o r w r o t e t h e m , I c a n ' t t e l l y o u

that. I don' t know the answer to that gr :est ion'

n : T h e p l a s t i c s l i d e s a s y o u s e e , t h e y . v e g o t a n a r e a c u tv .o u t d o w n h e r e b e l o w , t h e p a p e r s l i d e s t h a t l ' l l i n f e r w e r e m a d e

from there, of course show formation approach with that cut

out'

C a n y o u e x p l a i n a n y d i f f e r e n c e s b e t w e e n t h e p a p e r a n d t h e p l a s t i c

s l i d e s ?

A : A b s o l u t e l y c a n . W h e n t h i s s l i d e c a m e u p a n d i t s a i d

f o r m a t i o n a p p r o a c h , a t w h i c h t i m e l s a i d l ' ' T h e r e w i } l b e n o

format ion 1n any wa$r shaper form or fashion' there won' t even

be

a p e r c e p t i o n t h a t t h e r e ' s a n y f o r n a t i o n i n a n y s h a p e , f o r m o r

f a s h j - o n . , , W e w e r e n o t t o f l y a n y f o r m a t i o n . E v e n g e t c l o s e

e n o u g h t h a t y o u c o u l d h a v e t w o a i r p l a n e s i n t h e s a m e c a m e r a v i e w

i n a n y w a y , s h a p e o r f o r m . T h e y w e r e t o f } y a s R o n P e t e r s o n c a m e

i n t h i s d i s c u s s i o n b e f o r e a n d a s k e d t h a t t h e B - 5 2 a n d t h e 1 3 5

p e r f o r m e d . t h e i r f l y b y s i n t h e s a l n e p e r i o d o f t h e a i r s h o w f o r

e f f i c i e n c y a n d a } s o t o m a k e s u r e t h a t w h e n y o u t o o k a b i g

a i r p l a n e o u t t h a t t h e r e w a s n o t a l o t o f d e a d t i m e b e c a u s e o f t h e

a m o u n t o f p e o p l e t h a t h e h a d b e e n a b l e t o a c g u i r e t o f l y i n t h e

a i r s h o w a n d e v e r y t h i n g t h a t t h e B * 5 ? d i d n | t c o m e o u t a n d t h e n 2 0

m i n u t e s l a t e r c o m e b y a g a i n s o t h a t t h e t a n k e r a n d t h e b o m b e rwould kind of be on opposite sides

but one of them would be

c o m i n g b y t h e a i r S h o w ' h e w a n t e d a c o n t i n u o u s a i r s h o w . I t

v - 2 . 1 0

. rtr( La.

s t a r t e d a b o u t n o o n a n d s o f r o m n o o n t o f o u r i t w a s s u p p o s e d t o b e

cont inuous act ' iv i ty ' to keep everybody's at tent ion'

Q : o k a y s i r , I ' d l i k e t o a s ] c y o u a b o u t t w o o t h e r t h i n g s o nthe sl ide- Start ing f i rst

wi th the max performance take of f and

c l i m b o u t t o 5 0 0 0 f o o t A G L a t u n s t i c k p l u s l 0 k n o t s . I l v e h a d

o t h e r t e s t i m o n y t h a t t o l d m e t h a t t h i s w a s n o t b r i e f e d o r i n t h e

br ief ing that Bud might have said '

' I rd } ike to do something

d i f fe ren t . "

A : T h e " s o m e t h i n g d i f f e r e n t " w a s i t w a s b r i e f e d t h a t t h i s

w o u l d b e t h e s a l n e p r o f i } e t h a t h a d b e e n f l o w n f o r s e v e r a l y e a r s .

W i t h t h e e x c e p t i o n t h a t t h e y w a n t e d t o d o a c l i r n b i n g c l . o s e d

p a t t e r n t o 5 0 0 0 f e e t , a n d u n d e r t h e a s s u m p t i o n t h a t t h e r e a s o n

f o r t h e c l i m b i n g c l o s e d p a t t e r n t o 5 0 0 0 f e e t w o u l d b e t o e n s u r e

s e p a r a t i o n f r o m t h e t a n k e r t h a t t h e y w o u l d c l i m b u p ' t a k e o f f '

m a k e a c l i m b i n g c l o s e d p a t t e r n r C o I I l € a r o u n d , d e p a r t a t 5 0 0 0 o u t

t o w h e r e i t t e a r d r o p s a t w h i c h t i m e t h e t a n k e r w o u } d t h e n t a k e

o f f s o t h a t t h e b o m b e r w a s . . . h a d a l r e a d y ] e f t t h e p a t t e r n t h e r e

and the tanker would take off and the bomber would go out

and do

i t s t e a r d r o p a n d t h e t a n k e r w o u l d c l i r n b o u t a n d h a v e t o t a }

s e p a r a t i o n a n d t h e r e w o u } d b e n o p r o b l e m w i t h s e p a r a t i o n . T h a t

w a s t h e i n t e n t o f t h e f i r s t b u l l e t a s f a r a s I u n d e r s t o o d i t '

Q: Sir , d id i t surpr ise you when you heard that the

c } i m b i n g c l o s e d p a t t e r n w a s a c l i r n b i n g 3 6 0 d e g r e e t u r n a r o u n d t h e

tower?

A : I t s u r p r i s e d m e w h e n l t o o k e d a t t h e t a p e ' w h e n y o u

Iook a t the . . ' i t was go ing to be a le f t tu rn ' The tower i s

locat,ed on the lef t hand side' the c losed pattern" 'come

around.. ' i t woutd not surpr ise me i f you said that the c l imbing

turn, closed pattern would be coming down and that they

would

e n c o m p a s s t h e t o w e r a r e a a s t h e y w e r e c l i r n b i n g , b u t t h e y w o u } d b e

w e } l a b o v e 1 0 0 0 o r l s 0 0 f e e t y o u k n o w l S o t h e y w o u } d h a v e b e e n

c t i m b i n q r a r o u n d a n d c o m e d o w n t h e r u n w a y . S o i f y o u a r e s a y i n g

i t w e n t a r o u n d t h e t o w e r , t h a t w o u l d n ' t s u r p r i s e m e i n t h e f a c t

that the closed pattern probably would have to go outside of

the

v - 2 . 1 1

f l tr l

t h e t o w e r a n d t o c l i m b t o 5 0 0 0 f e e t a n d d o i t w i t h t h e p r e s c r i b e d

bank anqles and so on that they may encompass the tower'

But i t

d i d s u r p r i s e m e t r e m e n d o u s l y t h a t i . t w a s . . ' e s p e c i a } l y w h e n t h e

t a p e f o r t h e a c c i d e n t p o r t i o n , w h i c h l d o n o t u n d e r s t a n d , a n d j - t

i s n o t p a r t o f t h a t p r o f i l e ' t h a t t u r n t h a t h e m a d e f o r t h e

accident -

oh.That is around the tower ' That

is the f i rst and only

v i s ion I ' ve seen as f a r as any c l i r nb ing '

As we move through it ' I maY beable to c lar i fY some

Q :

A :

th ings for You there'

A; I hoPe You can understand what I rm

try ing to say that the normal c losed pattern

The other c losed pattern would be a c l imbing

the lef t which the tower is over to the lef t '

c l imbing around the tower" '

Q: No, I th ink I understand '

A: Donr t get a v is ion that there is a py lon turn around

the tower but a closed pattern that goes towards the Eower and

c o m j - n g b a c k o v e r a n d c o m i n g u p . T h a t k e e p s t h e m a w a y f r o m t h e

C r o w d l t h e r e , s n o t a n y t h i n g o u t t h e r e o n t h a t s i d e , Y o U k n o w .

Q : T h a t , s s p e c i f i c a } l y w h y l a s k e d b e c a u s e l t h i n k l d o

u n d e r s t a n d y o u r d i f f e r e n c e t h e r e . S i r , I ' d l i k e t o a s k a b o u t t h e

wing over here as to "

A : That was an

new Pro f i f e b r i e fed to

p r o f i l e -

t r Y i n g t o s a y . I ' m

is to the r igh t '

c losed Pattern to

So when You saY

There was no wing over in the

going to haPPen during thiso ld po r t i on .

me that was

Sir, when You saw the s l i des r was the word "w ing ove r "

there? I mean tha t ' s

A : I g u e s s i t w a s ' I t l o o k s l i k e t h e s l i d e t h a t l s a w '

B u t t h e w i n g o v e r w a s n o t d . i s c u s s e d . I t h i n k i n r e t r o s p e c t n o wl r a v i n g h e a r d a f t e r t h e a c c i d e n t t h a t t h e r e w a s a m a n e u v e r t h a t

t h e y d i d a w i n g o v e r i n a p r e v i o u s a i r s h o w , b u t n o t t h i sprof i le. Would you l ike me to go through

exact ly what I th ink

v - 2 . 1 2

l l( . , )

the whole prof i le was supposed to be because this wing over was

not par t o f tha t Pro f i le '

e: Yes sir I wouLd l ike for you to go through i t but

before we get started I would l ike to dwel l on the wing over just

for a second and it would apPear that these are the slides that

were shown Eo YOU, but was there any d'iscussion of the wing over?

Did anybody f lag i t to you or anything l ike that?

A : N o , a n d t h e r e w a s n o d i s c u s s i o n a b o u t h a v i n g a w i n g

over

Q: I guess at that Point then" '

A : A n d l d o n , t k n o w w h a t a w i n g o v e r w o u } d r e p r e s e n t o t h e r

t h a n w h a t l , v e h e a r d a f t e r w a r d s t h a t o n e o f t h e s h o w s c o m i n g

d o w n , B u d p u l l e d t h e a i r p l a n e u p v e r y c l o s e t o t h e g r o u n d , o k a y .

There was never a discussion that that was going to be any parE

o f t h e P r o f i l e .

Q : I g u e s s f o r t h e d i s c u s s i . o n o f t h e p r o f i l € , i t w o u l d b eh e l p f u l t o m e a n d t h e i n v e s t i g a t i o n t e a m t o g e t y o u r s e n s i n g o f

the detaiL you were given and what you understood and what you

thought the prof i - le was that was verbaLized to you?

A : W e L l , I i k e l s a y , I t h i n k t h e y b r o u g h t t h e s l i d e s i n

where they were the salne sl ides that they've used for years ' i t

c o u l d b e w h e r e t h e y b r o u g h t t h e m i n a n d j u s t d i d n | t p r e p a r e

sl ides thaE would be unique to the '94 air show' They may noE

have done that or they may have just put in a couple of

statements for the t94 and lef t everything else that was there.

M y p e r c e p t i o n a n d u n d e r s t a n d i n g o f w h a t t h e f l y - b y s w e r e s u p p o s e d

to be for the air show WBST on in i t ia l take of f , to a c losed

pat te rn , wh ich was. . .shou ldn ' t be any d i f f i cu l " t th ing to do ' we

do in i t ia l take

of fs to c losed pa t te rns , espec ia l l y I igh t we igh t fo r B-52s to

cl imb lef t c losed pattern, c l imb to 5000 and depart ' The tanker

would take of f a f terward,s . so that f -here is to ta l separat iont

at t i tude, t iming, the whole n ine yards ' The B-52 would go out

and set. up and make a left teardrop and come by with the gear and

v - 2 , 1 3

l l( i t

f l a p s d o w n , s t r a i g h t a n d l e v e J , d o w n t h e r u n w a y t o a p o i n t w h e r e

w e h a v e t h i s l i t t l e t o w n c a } l e d A i r w a y H e i g h t s . D o w n p a s t

e v e r y b o d y t h a t , s t h e r e f o r t h e a i r s h o w , t h e w h o } e n i n e y a r d s a n d

then make a turn to the left ' avoiding the l itt le town of Airway

H e i g h t s , c J j . m b a n d r a i s e t h e f l a p s . o f c o u r s e y o u ' d r a i s e t h egear then raise the f laps' In order

to do that i t was talked

about, about taking a couple minutes to get everything set up'

S o a t t h a t p o i n t w h e n t h e y s a i d a c o u p l e m i n u t e s d r i v i n g o u t p a s t

A i r w a y H e i g h t s r l s a i d ' r ' N o w ' a c o u p l e m i n u t e s ' a r e w e g o i n g t o

b e o u t o f t h e a i r s p a c e f o r t h e t o w e r h e r e . ' ' W h o a r e y o u t a l k i n g

to, you talk ing to approach contro] now because we've got a

I i t t } e . . . a n i n t e r n a t i o n a l r u n w a y s i t t i n g t o t h e r i g h t h a n d s i d e

here and r wanted to make sure approach contror- . .everybody knows

t h a t t h e y ' r e t a l k i n g r b e c a u s e t r a f f i c s t i l l c Q m e s i n a n d o u t o f

there, regard' l -ess of whether we're having the air show or not?

And they said, , ,yes. , , They talked about radio changes and

being

a b l e t o g o o v e r t o a p p r o a c h c o n t r o l a n d h a v e t h e S o F g o o v e r t o

a p p r o a c h c o n c r o J s o t h e y c o u l d m o n i t o r w h a t w a s g o i n g o n . D r i v e

o u t , c } i m b u p t o a p p r o x i m a t e } y s o m e w h e r e a r o u n d 5 0 0 0 f e e t a n d

t h e n a d ' e s c e n d . i n g r i g h t h a n d t u r n t o c o m e b a c k a n d c o m e s t r a i g r h t

a n d l e v e l d o w n t h e r u n w a y o n a h i g h s p e e d p a s s a n d t h e n i n i t i a t e

a c l imb to 12 ,000 fee t fo r spac ing ' Now th is spac ing aga in i s

f o r t h e c l i n b t o 1 2 , 0 0 0 b e c a u s e t h e t a n k e r i s f o l } o w i n g t h e s e

folks around. The tanker would thein in i t iate a cf imb also then

c o m e b a c k a r o u n d a n d g e t i n f r o n t o f t h e B - 5 2 s o t h e r e w a s g o i n g

t o b e a c h a n g e o f w h o w a s f o l f o w i n g w h o . T h a t w a s t h e r e a s o n f o r

c l i r n b i n g a t 1 2 , 0 0 0 f e e t g o i n g o u t t h e r e . S o w e g o t a l o t o f

al t i tude outr there. . They can set up for t ,he landing, the tanker

would cone around and come in and make a full stop' The bomber

would come around and make a c losed pattern fu} l stop' so the

tanker would be totarry of f the runway. That 's the extent of the

p r o f l l e a $ f a r a s t h e g r o u n d t r a c k s t h a t l w a s a w a r e o f . T h e r e

w e r e n o w i n g o v e r s i n t h a t o r a n y v i o l e n t m a n e u v e r s . . . o r a n y

v - 2 . 1 4

. l

maneuvers that I would consider to be anlnlhat aggressive because

i t i s j us t t ra f f i c pa t te rn maneuver ing '

Q: You don, t recal l Co] Hol }and or anyone ta lk ing to

you

about the angle of banks that he was going to use?

A: Oh Y€$ , I asked tha t gues t i on ' I sa id ' " ' as we go

t h r o u q r h h e r e . . . h a v i n g b e e n a w i n g c o m m a n d e r b e f o r e a n d h a v i n g

been in charge of a i r shows and stuf f l ike that ' I wanted to make

sure that everyth ing was wel ] ins ide compl iance 5o I sa id ' "TeI I

me how you are qro ing to do th is?" He said ' r tWel l ' we ' re going to

r o ] ' l i n t o 6 0 d e g r e e s o f b a n k a n d d o a c l i m b i n g c ] o s e d ' ' I s a i d ,, , N o , I d o n , t t h i n k . . . y o u k n o w , w e c a n ' t d o 6 0 d e g r e e s o f b a n k '

that doesn, t sound r ight . " I 've qrot my v ice wing commander

s i t t ing to the r ight o f me, I made the suggest ion at that po int

to sdgr 45 d.egrees would be the absolute max I th ink you would

w a n t t o d o i n a n y t r a f f i c p a t t e r n . R e f e r r i n g t o t h e f a c t t h a t i n

my knowledge of the B-52s and the weapons systems that I 've f lown

before, Eo maneuver the a i rp lane up to 45 degrees of bank ' i t is

n o t a c r i t i c a ] . s i t u a t i o n t o m a k e i t g o w h e r e y o u w a n t i t t o g Q ,

ins ide the parameters and I asked, "Max is 45, is that go ing to

b e i n c o m p l i a n c e a n d d o e s t h a t m e e t a l l t h e p a r a m e t e r s '

e v e r y b o d y ? " I l o o k e d t o t h e V i c e ' O P S G r o u p C o m m a n d e r ' B u d

H o l l a n d d i d n , t l i k e i t b e c a u s e h e s a i d , * I t h i n k w e n e e d t o d o

60 . * I sa id , "No , max i s go ing to be 45 ' I s t ha t i n comp l iance '

does everybodl r understand th is? ' ' Everybody shook the i r head YeS,

c o n c u r r e d . A t t h a t p o i n t l f e t t l i k e 4 5 w a s i n c o m p l j . a n c e -

Q : N o o n e e v e r t a ] " k e d t o y o u a b o u t t h e 3 0 d e g r e e

res t r i c t i on?

A : No, I 'm aware that i t 1s in the dash one now' but a t

that po int , wi . th my staf f s i t t ing there, the vFR t raf f ic pat tern

fo r do ing those . . . I d idn ' t have a reco l l ec t i on o f a I ] t he numbers

of the dash one immed, ia te ly r ight in my head there ' that 's why I

have the s taf f that does aI ] that s tuf f ' The other parametrer was

t a l k e d . a b o u t w a s . . , I s a i d , " N o w i n t h i s c l i m b t o 1 2 ' 0 0 0 f e e t

going out there, You are ta lk ing about an accelerated c l imb going

v - 2 . 1 5

t f r

to 12 ,000, what a re we ta lk ing about?r r He says ' "Wel I ' I t f i l

r a i s i n g t h e n o s e t o a b o u t S 0 t o 6 0 d e g r e e s . ' ' I s a i d , . ' N o , I | m

n o t g o i n g a l o n g w i t h t h a t e i t h e r ' " T h e m a x l t h i n k y o u s h o u l dp r o b a b } y r a i s e t h e n o s e i s a b o u t z S d e g r e e s b e c a u s e t h a t i s a b o u t

an air t iner departure. r don' t th ink anybody is

going to get

r e a l e x c i t e d o n t h e g r o u n d o r t h i n k w e a r e v j - o l a t i n g a n y t h i n g , o lwerre not violating anything

are we if we use 25? Arrd the answer

back from everybody was, | ,Nor we,r€ not. ' ' So I said, we]. I then'

let ,s donrt go above 25 degrees of p i tch max, that means

you can

to frorn E to 10 to lE. whatev€r you want to in there or to the

m a x o f 2 s , b u t n o t t o t h e p o i n t o f e x c i t i n g a n y b o d y o r v i o J a t i n g

a n y r e g u } a t i o n s o r g i v i n g t h e s e n s e o f i n s e c u r i t y t o a n y b o d y t h a t

t h a t a i r p l a n e i s n o t f u t } y u n d e r c o n t r o l . N o t w h a t l s a w o n t h e

(':

t a P e .

Q :

V{hat is

Si r , can I ask Your

your P i lo t ' s es t imate

pro fess iona l av ia t ion ab i l i tY?

of h is P i tch ang le?

A: On that taPe?

Q: Yes sir ' From what you see on the tape'

A: I t certainly is weII in excess of 25 and I would

p r o b a b } y s a y u p w a r d s o f a } m o s t 6 0 d e g r e e s o r e v e n a l i t t } e m o r e

i t looks l ike ' From the tape i t 's very hard to te l l because

there is no ground PersPect ive'

Ql Yeah, i t is one dimensional '

A l l m e a n i f l h a d a f t a t s u r f a c e s o t h a t l c o u t d t e } I

w h a t t h e a n g } e W d S r I c o u l d t e l } y o u . B u t l c o u l d s e e t h a t m a y b e

i t ,s a faLse way the calnera is ]ooking there or whatever ' but

i t

a p p e a r s t h a t t h e n o s e c a m e u p a n d t h e n c a m e u p a n d t h e n c a m e u p

a g a i n a n d l w a s n e v e r e x p e c t i n g t h a t n o s e t o e v e r c o m e u p o t h e r

than what I can see that would be dr you know' fairly decent

c } i m b o u t a n g } e , b u t n o t o n e t h a t i s e x c e s s i v e i n t h e a s p e c t .

However, a l ight B-52' Bs you weII know' i f you raise the nose

from f ie ld elevat ion there, going to 12' 000 feet you know' by the

t i m e y o u r a i s e t h e n o s e u p , ] . 5 o r ? 0 d e g r e e s , i t ' s t i m e t o p u s h

t h e n o s e b a c k d o w n t o l e v e } o f f b e c a u s e y o u g e t t h a t m a s s s t a r t e d

v - 2 . 1 6

( i t t t l

and to keep i t a lL wel l wi th in the to lerances of the dash one and

everything. I t shouldntt be a v io lent maneuver, i t shouldn' t be

one that is very di f f icul t to do at a l" I and' one that I d idn' t

perceive would be in v io lat ion of any th ing because everybody

says i t wasn' t going to be in v ioLat ion of anything'

Q: s i r , do you reca l l any d iscuss ions o f s ta lL speeds

versus bank angles or anything l ike that? As to what they're

opera t ing on .

A : W e L l r t h e c o m m e n t a n d i t ' s . o n e t h a t ' w h e n t h e y s a y

unst ick plus 10 was to give the 30 percent ' I remember somebody

saying 30 percent safety margin ' a l"L the bank angles and air

speeds is to ensure the normal t raf f ic pattern, 30 percent safety

margin. In technical terms t.hat means to me that you go in and

]ook at the performance manuals and under normal traffic

pa t te rns , I don ' t th ink 30 percent . You look a t the fue l o r look

at the weight, The IP that I f ly wi th te l ls me that i t should be

16g and so on down, and that number is supposed to give me the

capabi l i ty to f ly the aj . rp lane in a very good safety margin and

so the real absotute technical part of that , I can' t descr ibe

other than i ts 30 percent ' safety margin '

Q: Sir , d id you have or did the staf f tet l you about who

they coordinated with within Air Combat Command Headquarters or

the aj-r staff or who ever as far as aj.r show approval?

No, Ron Pe te rson ' as we s ta r ted to sd t r I ' I l g i ve you

A :

just a l i t t le b i t o f background on that . Ron Peterson works down

a t base ops , a i r f i e l d manager down the re , he ts the guy tha t ' s

been doing the a l r shows for years and years and years ' c iv i l ian '

been there for a long t i .me. You go in to h is of f ice, His of f ice

has p ic tures on every Sguare inch of h is of f ice ' f rom every type

of a i rp lane Ehat 's ever been f lown at Fai rch i ld ' Thank you very

much for a very profess ional job, commendat ions for hav ing the

ai r ohow, doing a] I these k ind of th ings. A very pretent ious

o f f i ce i n t he fac t t ha t he ce r ta in l y has a l o t o f kudos tha t he ' s

d o i n g a v e r y g o o d j o b w l t h w h a t h e d o e s - I ' v e b e e n i n h i s

v-2.L ' l

I i.^( . , ,

of f i ce ' I ' ve been in every o f f i ce on tha t

base ' He came to me

and said, "When are we going to have the air

show?rf I said '

, ,WeII , when General Richards was here he said that the

Li lac

Fest ival fo lks ' th is is an organizat ion down

town' puts on a

g r e a t b i g p a r a d e a n d t h o s e t l p e s o f t h i n g s a n d t h e y u s u a l l y l i k e

t o h a v e t h e a i r s h o w a t t , h e e n d o f t h e l i l a c f e s t j . v a } . ' ' I s a i d ,, ,we]I , I ' ,ve heard that thatrs

too hard on our people to work

t h r o u g h t h e S a t u r d a y n i g h t . . . t h e p a r a d e d o e s n ' t e v e n e n d u n t i l11:00 and aI I that k ind

of Etuf f ' and then have our people come

b a c k o u t t h a t , s b e e n w o r k S . n g d o w n t o w n a n d t h e n s e t u p f o r t h e

a i r s h o w . I t | s t o o m u c h o f a s t r e s s w e e k e n d . ' ' S o w h a t I ' d l i k e

t o d o i s c h a n g e t h a t a n d h a v e i t t h e l a s t w e e k i n . I u n e s o t h a t w e

c a n h a v e a s a n i t i z e d p e r i o d o f t i m e o n e i t h e r s i d e t o m a k e s u r e

that we got everything right for it and it wil l be

that Sunday

and then we wiII have Mondayr Tuesday' Wednesday

and Thursday to

g e t t h e b a s e a l } c l e a n e d u p b e c a u s e o n F r i d a y w e w i l l c h a n g e f r o m

A i r C o m b a t C o m m a n d t o A i r M o b i l i t y C o m m a n d . I t w o u l d b e a g r e a t

show for the people downtown and the fact that we wil l

have gone

f r o m A i r C o m b a t C o m m a n d t o A i r M o b i } i t y C o m m a n d , a n d t h a t t h e

b a s e i s s t i l ] a l i v e a n d w e l } a n d e v e r y t h i n g , g o o d p e r c e p t i o n . S o

I m e t s e v e r a l t i m e s w i t h h i m o n m a k i n g t h a t h a p p e n . H e w a s i n

c h a r g e o f m a k i n g t h a t h a p p e n . H e k e p t c o m i n g t o m e a n d a s k i n g

f o r m o n e y . E v e r y b o d y d o e s , t h e w i n g c o m m a n d e r . M o n e y f o r t h . i s ,

m o n e y f o r t h a t , t e l l i n g m e t h a t w e c o u l d n o t g e t a n y o f t h e h i g hp e r f o r m a n c e d e m o n s t r a t i o n t e a m s , T h u n d e r b i r d s , i t w a s n o t o u r

t i r n e t o g e t t h o s e a n d h e t r i e d t o g e t t h e S n o w b i r d s , c o u l d n ' t g e t

t h o s e a n d s o m e o t h e r f o l k s . H e c a n e t o m e o n e t i m e a n d s a i d ,

h e , s g o t j u s t a b o u t e v e r y b o d y h e c a n ' a n d a l l t h e s t a t i c d i s p l a y s

e x c e p t h e w o u l d c e r t a i n l y l i k e t o h a v e a l l ? a n d a B - l a n d a s k e d

i f l w o u l d c a l l a n y b o d y l k n o w o r w h o m e v e r l c o u l d c a l l t o t r y t o

h e l p t h a t o u t s o l p i c k e d t h e p h o n e u P a n d c a f l e d A C C / D O X t o t h e

a i r e h r o w g u y s t h e r e a n d s a i d , ' , H i , t h i s i s e i l l B r o o k s , I w a s t h e

ADo there and r know you very werr and couJd you herp

me out'

th is is the last a i r show for the g 'd Bon,c Wing, we surely

would

v - ? . 1 8

t f('i t

t i k e t o h a v e a l l T a n d i f t h e y c o u l d d o a f l y b y t h a t w o u } d b e

g r e a t , f } Y a t ' t h e a i r s h o w , t h a t w o u l d b e a b s o f u t e } y s u p e r a n d l

n e e d a B - l i f w e c a n g e t o n e . r r T h E Y c a } l e d m e b a c k e i . t h e r t h a t

day or the next day and said ' "We've got you the

1 '17 and he wi l l

d o a f l y b y . " I s a i d ' " G r e a t ' " B u t h e s a i d ' " T h e B - 1 '

y o u t l l

h a v e t o c a l l D y e s s . , , s o l c a l l e d d o w n a t D y e s s a n d e i t h e r t a l k e d

t o t h e o G o r t h e v i c e o r w h o m e v e r , d i d n o t t a l k t o G e n e r a l A l ] . e n

b u t a s k e d t o s e e i f t h e y c o u } d d o t h a t a n d l e a r n e d a t i t t l e b i t

l a t e r t h a t t h e y c o u } d n o t s u p p o r t t h a t . I k e p t a s k i n g a l l t h i s

timer how are we doing' is there anything I need to

do' Do we

h a v e e v e r y t h i n g d o n e , i s t h e r e p r o b l e m s w i t h a n y t h i n g w e ' v e g o tg o i n g o n ? , , N O , f l o r s i r . E v e r y t h i n g i s r i g h t o n t r a c k , w e | v e g o t

everything qroing' I rm talk ing to FAA' I 'm talk ing

to the local

cont ro l le rs r I 'm ta lk ing to a l ] the fo lks tha t I need

to ta lk

to . , r And I sa id , "weI I . . . " and he ta lked about wa ivers

tha t he

w a s g e t t i n g s o m e w a i v e r s f o r t h e f o l k s t h a t y o u k n o w l h a d t o g e t

c e r t a i n w a i v e r s f r o m F A A a n d f r o m o t h e r f o ] . k s t o m a k e t h a t

h a p p e n , I s a i d , " F i n e " ' A n d t h i s i s a l l i n t h e p r e t e n s e o r t e x t

t . h a t t h i s i s a n a i r s h o w . I i n n o w a y f e } t l i k e t h a t w e w e r ep u t t i n g o n a d e m o n s t r a t i o n t h a t i t w a s a n a i r s h o w . I d i d n ' t

have any reason to quest ion that because i t real ly didnft

come to

m i n d t o b e a b s o } u t e } y h o n e s t w h e n y o u t o g e t t o t h a t p o i n t .

B e c a u s e t , h e s e f o l k s h a v e b e e n d o i n g i t f o r y e a r s , t h e y | v e b e e n

t a } k i n g t o t h e S a m e p e o p } e . I k n o w h e | s t a l k i n g t o A c c / D o X ' I

talked to them. r got the ops group commander, a very

meticulous

g u y t h a t i s w o r k i n g t h i s . M y c o n f i d e n c e l e v e l i s v e r y h i g h t h a t

t h e s e f o l k s h a v e g o t a l ] . o f t h e p a r a m e t e r s m e t a n d l a s k e d i n

n u m e r o u s c a s e s . W h e n l f i r s t s t a r t e d o u E t h e r e w e r e t h i n g s t h a t

t h e y w e r e w o r k i n g o n t . h a t t h e y h a d n , t g o t t e n y e t b u t w e r e w o r k i n g

o n t r a c k . A t t h e 1 5 . f u n e m e e t i n g l a s k e d l a n d e v e r y t h i n g w a s o n

track and readY to go'

Q : r t h i n k t h a t a n s w e r s t h e g u e s t i o n s l w a s l e a d i n g u p t oon the ACC approval versus

B*52 demonstrat ions'

(TaPed tu rned over a t th is Po in t ' )

v - 2 . 1 9

f , l t r E

Q: Let me rec lar i fy my quest ion at the end ' I t appears

t h a t f r o m m y u n d e r s t a n d i n q r , Y o U h a v e a n s w e r e d m y q u e s t i o n a n d t h e

next one I was leading up to, whether or not you were aware that

there needed to be an ACC approval fOr a B-52 demonstration and

the answer was you were not aware and your staff did not tel l you

that i t required ACC aPProval?

T h a t ' s t r u e b e c a u s e t h e w o r d d e m o n s t r a t i o n w a s n e v e r

I mean, the essence of what was discussed and what had

A :

u s e d .

q o n e b y w a s t h a t f o r y e a r s t h e y h a d d o n e a t a n k e r a n d a b o m b e r

f l y b y . A n d t h a t t h e f l y b y s w e r e s t r a i g h t a n d l e v e l . I k n e w

that was part of the parameters and thatrs what those were' The

discussions for the c losed pattern was to get al t i tude, i t was

n o t p a r t o f t h e f l y b y , b u t j u s t t o t a k e o f f , g e t a } t i t u d e , g Q

out set up in a teardrop to make that f1y by' To make another

tear drop which is maneuver ing for the straight and level f ly by

to c l imb out, come back, make a c losed pattern and land'

T h o s e . . . t h e f l y b y p o r t i o n s w e r e t h e t w o p a s s e s . T h e o t h e r w a s

the maneuvering to either Eake off or the maneuverinql to land'

Or the maneuvering to get spacing to make sure that there was no

d i f fe rence in the . . .a good d i f fe rence in a l t i tude and separa t ion

distance and time for the bomber and tanker. That was my

understanding.

Q: In the chasing down waj-vers for the FAA. do you recalJ

Mr Peterson or anyone talking to you about waivers needed for the

prac t ice miss ions?

A : N o r n o t a t a } l , t h a t w a s n e v e r m e n t i o n e d t o m e . W h e n l

a s k e d , d o w e h a v e e v e r y t h i n g t a k e n c a r e o f a n d c o o r d i n a t e d w i t , h ,

we did not ta lk about speci f ic nuts and bol ts about waiver A'

w a i v e r B , w a i v e r c t w a i v e r D ' Y o u k n o w ' t h a t w a s i n h i s j o b d u t y

descr ip t ion and the ops group. . .when I sayr " Is every th ing

coordinated?,, To me that means l ike, is the checkl ist completed.

That means you've done al l the i tems on the checkl ist i f you stsfr

, ,yes, i t , s completed. " when I asked' " Is everyLlr i r rg coordinated

on?,, That means do we have everything to put this show on' I

v - 2 . 2 0

I E

didn,t focus on the B-52, I was focusing on the ent i re air show

from the consignment of the l itt le stands that seII things you

k n o w , f r o r n b e d d i n g d o w n a i r c r e w m e m b e r s a n d w h e r e t o p a r kpeople, and hOw to. . .not only airplanes,

but people coming on the

base and the security and ambulance service and we discussed in

t h i s m e e t i n g a n d l d i s c u s s e d w i t h t h e s u p p o r t g r o u P c o m m a n d e r i n

inf in i te detai l and stuf f l ike that , how we were going to take,

i f w e h a d a n € m € r 9 € I l C Y l w h e r e t h e a m b u l a n c e w o u l d l e a v e . h o w w e

w o u f d g e t h e } o s u p p o r t , l i f e l i n e i n a n d o u t i f w e h a d s o m e . t } r t r ] e

o f e m e r g e n c y . I w a s t r y i n g t o b e u p a n d r u n n i n g o n t h a t . o n e o f

t h e t h i n g s w e h a d i n t h e m e e t i n g , t h i s w a s o n l y a v e r y s m a l lp o r t j . o n o f t h e m e e t i n g . W e d i s c u s s e d e v e r y t h i n g f r o m m e d i c a l t o

s e c u r l - t y p o l i c e , t o w h e r e w e w e r e g o i n g t o p a r k t h e c a r s , w h e r e

w e w e r e g o i n g t o p a r } < t h e a i r p } a n e s , t h e d ' i s a s t e r c o n t r o l $ r o u p l

h o w w e w e r e g o i n g t o s e t t h a t u p . W h o w a s g o i n g t o b e t h e r e a t

the disaster contror groupr who was going to be on the ramp that

r . . .we talked about communicat ions' so that I knew that my br ick '

I c o u l d t a t } c i f w e h a d a . . . a n y k i n d o f a i r c r a f t , c i v i l i a n

aircraf t , how do I ta lk to c iv i l ian aircraf t that has a problem

during the air show. can I l is ten on the br ick and can I taLk to

that individuaL or talk to the people that are making the

decj-s ions. The people that are running those di f ferent t lpes of

airplanes. can I ta lk to everybody that was going to f ly in that

a i r s h o w ? T h a t w a s t h e c o n c e r n t h a t l h a d . S o m y c o n c e r n w a s

focused on the qrrandiose '

Q : M y t r a i n o f t h o u g h t h e r e s l i p p e d f o r a s e c o n d .A : Y o u w e r e a s k i n g a b o u t t h e w a i v e r s f o r t h e p r a c t i c e a n d

when I asked for the waivers ' the waivers were al l included in

everything. I asked in the big picture aspect '

Q : I s u s p e c t e d a s m u c h t h a t ' s h o w y o u a s k e d i t , I j u s tw a n t e d t o g e t i t i n y o u t e s t i m o n y a n d y o u m a y b e a w a r e n o w t h a t

there were no waivers that had been granted for the pract ice

missions from the FAA'

I am now aware of that 'A :

v - 2 . 2 L

t h{ ' t

Q : Y e s , s i r a n d l w a n t e d t o g e t t h a t i n y o u r t e s t i m o n y .C o u p l e t h i n g s o n t h e . . . I w a n t t o r e a s k a c o u p } e q u e s t i o n s a n d

t h e n } e a d i n t o s o m e i n f o r m a t i o n v e r y q u i c k l y . D i d l u n d e r s t a n dy o u c o r r e c t } y t o s a y t h a t C o l H o l l a n d e m p h a s i z e d a n d t h a t y o u

t o l d C o l H o l l a n d t h a t t h i s w a s n o t a f o r m a t i o n f l i g h t ?

A: Abso lu te ly '

Q : W e r e y o u a w a r e p r o b a b } y o r m a y b e p o s s i b l y a f t e r t h eia"t that CoI HoIIand f i led as

a format ion?

A : N o l a r n n o t a w a r e o f t h a t . T h e y w e r e t o b o t h b e i n t h e

V F R p a t t e r n i s w h a t l u n d e r s t o o d . T h a t i s t h e t a n k e r a n d t h e

b o m b e r . H o w t h e y f i f e d , y o u k n o w , h e | s t h e C h i e f o f S t a n / E v a l ,

how they f i led to go into the t raf f ic pattern and the nuances of

d o i n g t h a t r l } o . B u t a s y o u c a n t e l l i n m y t e s t i m o n y t h a t t h e r ewas to be no forrnation, not hint of

formatj-on' no anything that

had the tanker and the bomber associated with f fy ing together,

only flying at the sarne tine during the air show'

; ,

- i r r , r ,d r i ke to tu rn to the r ' r June

prac t ice miss ion '

Were you able to view the L'7 June practice mission?

A; No, I was over " ' they took o f f ear ly tha t morn ing ' I

was over in the" 'wi t 'h everything going on with the massive

a m o u n t o f t r a n s i t i o n b r i e f i n g s t h a t w e h a d g o i n g o n t r y i n g t o

transition from Air cornbat command' to Air Mobil ity command' I was

g o i n g t h r o u g h a l o t o f t h a t . T h e r e w a E s o m e e n v i r o n m e n t a l

issues, w€ were try ing to draw the civ i l ian populace down' we

w e r e t r y i n g t o d o a l o t o f t h o s e a s p e c t s . A n d o n e o f t h e o t h e r

duties I have that I think is very important is I go over and

talk to the airman leadership. vf,e have an aj"rman readership

s c h o o } o n b a s e t h e r e a n d l g o o v e r a n d s i t d o w n f o r s o m e t i m e s

b e t w e e n 4 5 m i n u t e s a n d a n h o u r a n d a h a l f . W e w e r e a l s o l

b e l i e v e t h a t m o r n i n g , p r e p a r j . n g f o r C o l G u e n t h e r ' s r e t i r e m e n t 'g o i n g t h r o u g h f i r s t i t e r a t i o n s o f t h a t . S o l w a s o u t s i d e f o r a

per iod of t ime and over in the airman's leadership schooJ but I

d idn , t see he in i t ia ] take o f f . r d rd see Ehe a i rp lane f ry one

v -2 .22

t hl l t

p a t t e r n t h a t w o u ] . d a P p e a r t o b e j u s t a c l o s e d p a t t e r n a r o u n d a s l

w a s t h e r e a n d w e n t o v e r t o t h e a i r m a n l e a d e r s h i p s c h o o l .

Q : S i r , t h e o p s G r o u p C o m m a n d e r , C o ] . P e l } e r i n f l e w o n t h a tp r a c t j . c e m i s s i o n . D i d h e c o m e a n d t a l k t o y o u o r t e l l y o u a n y o f

the detai ls of how the pract ice mi 'ssj 'on went?

A: I taLked to him af terwards because I had worked out a

s } o t f o r h i m t o g o t o C a s t l e t h a t n e x t w e e k t o g e t t a n k e r

t r a i n i n g s o w h e n h e a r r i v e d a t M i l d e n h a f l h e w o u l d b e c u r r e n t a n dqual i f ied in the tanker to help him out

a l i t t le bi t so he

w o u J d n l t h a v e t o c r o s s t h e p o n d a c o u p l e t i m e s t o d o t h a t . I n

t h e , J u n e l s m e e t i n g a f t e r w a r d s , I s a i d t h a t l w o u l d t i k e f o r , y o u

k n o w , s i n c e H o } ] . a n d t o l d m e t h a t . . . h e g a v e m e s o m e p a r a m e t e r s

a b o u t h o w t h e m i s s i o n w a s g o i n g t o f l y a n d l g a v e S o m e d i r e c t i o n '*r woul_d r ike for you the oG to go and to

go through this prof i re

and come back to me and to make sure that wefre all- in compliance

and make Sure that we,re not v io lat ing any regulat i