167- Lessons We Can Learn from Europe and Natural Wines (With … · 2018. 10. 1. · independent...

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Episode167:LessonsWeCanLearnfromEurope

andNaturalWines(WithHeather!)


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

Katie:Helloandwelcometo"TheHealthyMom'sPodcast".I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.com.

Heather:AndI'mHeatherwithmommypotamus.com

Katie:Andthisisgonnabeafunepisodebecausewe'regonnarecount...basicallywe'regonnatalkaboutwineandEurope,whicharetwoamazingandfuntopics.Butfirst,Ihaveasmallaskofallofyouguys.IfyoucouldtakeliterallytwominutesorlessandgotoiTunes,orStitcher,orwhateveryoulistentopodcast,andleaveanhonestratingorreview,thatwoulddrasticallyhelpustobeabletounderstandwhatyoulike,whatyoudon'tlike,andwhatyouwannahearinthefuture.Andtomakeitfun,wearegonnadoasmallgiveaway,andI'mgonnagiveawayaMyobuddytoanybodywhocommentsinthenexttwoweeks,butthekeyisyouhavetousethekeyword"wellness"somewhereinyourreview,sothatweknowthatyouheardthis,andthatyou'reinonthegiveaway.So,gotowhereveryoulistentopodcasts,leaveanhonestratingorreviewthatincludestheword"wellness,"andIwillpickonewinnerintwoweeksforagiveaway.Heather:Fun.CanIenter?Katie:Totally.Andthenfromthere,soIthinkifanyofyoufollowmeonInstagram,youmayhaveseenthatIwasinItalyrecentlywithDryFarmWines,andIgotsomanyquestionsonInstagram,IfeellikeIshouldclearupthefactthatnoIdon'tactuallyworkforDryFarmWines.They'rejustgoodfriends.AndIbasicallyhadtheopportunitytotagalongandvisitvineyardsandseehownaturalwinesaremadeandsourcedandtested,andofcourse,Ijumpedattheopportunitybecausewhowouldn't?Andreally,ittotallyblewmymind.ButIalsogotalotofquestionsfromyouguysaboutwineingeneralandisithealthyandisitnot?Andso,peoplebroughtupareallyvalidpointwhichisthatdrinkingtoomucheverynightisactuallynotgoodforus.AndIwantedtoaddressthatandtostartwithtalkingaboutwineandalcoholingeneral,andbasicallywhattolookfor,andifitisactuallyhealthyorit'snot.Iknowit'ssomethingthat,like,isapartofmylifeandHeather,Ithinkyouaswell?Heather:Mm-hm.Katie:Yeah,we'rebothfansofwine.ButthereasonthatIhavebecomesuchafanofDryFarmWines,especiallyafterthistrip,isrealizingthedifferenceinreallywhatseparatestheirwines.Becauseforalongtime,evenIthought,"Well,maybeit'sjust,kindoflike,organicwines.They'rejustsourcingthembetter,orit'sawesome,becauseitshowsupatyourdoor,"whichisamazing.Butafterseeingtheprocessthattheygothroughtoactuallyfindthesewines,I'mcompletelyblownaway.Oneofthewinemakersandgrowersthatwewentandvisitedhisvineyard,hehadaquotethatIloved.Hesaid,"Inwine,youhavetoworkinsubtraction,notaddition.Whenyoutakeeverythingout,youfindgoodwine."Andthat'skindofthegoverningideabehindwhattheydo,andIdidn'tfullyrealizetheextentofthatuntilthistrip.So,basicallytoanswerthecommentersonInstagram,yes,alcoholisactuallytoxic.Infact,DryFarmWinesfounderToddWhitesaysthis.Hesaidthisonmypodcastayearago,thatalcoholisactuallytoxic.Butatthesametime,weknowthateverybluezoneintheworld,theydrinkwineinmoderationdaily.Sotherehastobeabalancethere,becauseweknowthehealthiest,longestlivingpeopleintheworldconsumealcohol.Butyet


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weknowthatalcoholathighconcentrationsistoxic.SoIdothinkthatthere'sabalancingact.Idon'tthinkanyoneshouldbedrinking,like,hugeamountsofwineoranyalcoholeverynightcertainly,that'snotwhatI'madvocating.ButIdothinkthatwinecanlenditselftocommunityandtofriendshipandjustlike,enjoyingtimestogether,andthatitdoesactuallyhavesomehealthbenefitswhenit'sfromtherightsourcing.SoifyouguysarefamiliarwithDryFarmWines,youmayknowthattheyhavealotofcriteriathattheyusetosourceit,butIdidn'tquiteunderstandhowin-depththisgoes.So,inorderforthemtoevenconsiderawine,ithastomeetabunchofcriteria.Andsomeofthoseare,ithastobecompletelydryfarmed,whichmeanstheyneverwaterthegrapes,period.Which,havingvisitedItalynowisamazingtome,becauseit'snotexactlyaverywetregion.Itwassuperdry.Otherplantswoulddieandtheywouldnotwaterthegrapes.Andtheideawasthatthen,thegrapescan'tsearchforwateronthesurface,sotheyhavetosendtheirrootsverydeepintothesoilandtheyreachdifferentlayersofthesoilwherethere'smorewater,butthere'salsomoreminerals,andthenwhattheycall"terroir,"whichislike,thewholemicrobiomemineralcompositionofthedeepersoil.Andthat'swhatgivesthesewinesadifferenttaste,butalsoitlendsitselftolowersugarandloweralcohol,becausethey'renotgettingexcesswater.Whenthere'salotofwater,theymakemoresugar,thenitbecomesmorealcohol.Andtheybasicallyexplained,look,whenyouwatergrapes,ifyoueverwaterthem,therootsstayatthesurfacelookingforwater,andsotheyneverhavetogodeepandtheyalsogettotallydifferentminerals,so,it'sjustacompletelydifferentgrape.Beyondthat,inordertomeettheircriteria,allwinehastobecompletelybeyondorganic.Someofthesewinemakers,theywereamazing,family-ownedvineyards.Andifyouhadjustcalledthemorganicorbio-dynamic,theywouldhavebeenreallyoffended,becausewhattheydoissofarbeyondthat.Becausetothem,youcouldstillspraywithorganicpesticidesoruseorganicfertilizersifyouwerejustorganic.Andtheydon'tdoanyofthat.Theyworkwiththeentirevineyardasalmostlikeacomplexorganism,andtheynurturethesoil,theynurturetheenvironment,theair.Theypurposelybringinherbsandflowersintothevineyardinsteadofclearingunderneathit,sothatthere'smoreyeastandfragrancesandeverythinginthevineyardingeneral.Andthatlendsitselftoanothercriteria,whichisnaturalyeast.So,basically,likeHeather,Iknowyou'refamiliarwiththisfromtheideaoflike,fermentations.Howyoucouldmakelike,sauerkraut,kombucha,etc.Likeyou'renotaddingayeast.Canyoukindofexplainthatprocessofhowtheyeasthappensthere?Heather:Well,usuallylike,ifyou'refermentingAppleCiderVinegar,thenthere'sayeastthatnaturallyoccursontheoutsideoftheapple.Andso,whenyou're,kindof,puttingitallinthere,thenthatyeastgetsthefermentationgoing.Katie:Yeah,exactly.Soexactlythesamethingwithwine,andIdidn'trealizethis,theywouldn'tacceptanywinethatisusinganykindofcommercialyeast,evenanorganicone,becausetheywantthenativeyeastofthevineyardwherethegrapeswere.Andthat'soneofthethingsthatlendstolike,thatmorenaturaltaste,butalsothen,thesewinesarestillalive.Sowhenyougetthem,theyhaveupto2,000differenttypesofbeneficialyeastsandbacteria.Sointhatsense,they'realmostmorelikeakombuchaorfermentedfoodthanjustlike,analcoholicproduct.Andinthebluezoneswherewinehasbeenlinkedtothesepeople,it'soneofthefactorswherepeoplelivetobe100ormore.TheydomakethesewineslikeSardinia's,forinstance,abluezone.AndSardinianwinesarewell-knownfortheirhealthpromotingbenefits.They'resoughtoutandthey'remadethisway.Sosuperfascinatingtolearnthat.Alsothey'relowalcohol.SolikeImentioned,alcoholistoxic.Weshouldn'tdrinkalotofit.So,forDryFarm,theywon'tevenconsiderawinethat'sabove12.5%alcohol,whichisaverysmallnumberofwines.Andtheideais,thenyoucanstillgetmostofthebenefitsofthewinewithoutasmuch


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ofanalcoholhit.Andthat'soneofthosefactorsthatprobablyalsocomesintoplayinbluezones.Andthenfromthere,theytestdozensofdifferentmetrics,butsugarandsulfitesaretwomore.Thesugarhastobeextremelylow.So,allthewinesareessentiallyketo-friendly,andtherecanonlybesmallamountsofnaturallyoccurringsulfitesthatoccuringrapes.Andso,likeIsawthemturnaway70%ofthewinesthatwesawjustbasedonthecriteria.Andthenbeyondthere,itstillhastopasstheirprettyrigoroustastetest.BecausetheywouldtrywinesandIwouldtryitandI'dbelike,"Thisisgreat."Andthey'relike,"There'salittletoomuchbreadiness,orallthesethings."Sothemajorityofwinesthattheytry,theyturndown.SoIwasjustshocked.Heather:Andthentheylab-testitafterthat,right?Katie:Exactly.Sotheyalsotravelwithtesttubesintheirbackpack.Ilovethat.Allthesenerdyfriends.Heather:Ultimatenerdsrightthere.Katie:Yes.Andifawinemeetsallofthosecriteria,they'velike,interviewedthewinemaker,itmeetsallofthose,becausethewinemakersalsotestthesethings,andittastesgood,thenthey'lltakeasampletoanindependentlabtoverifyallofthatbeforethey'llbuyit.So,just,Iwasfascinatedtoseewhatthedifferenceisandhowmuchefforttheyputintochoosingthese,andsadly,also,howmanywinestheyhavetoturnawaythattometastedlike,perfectlygreat,buttheydidn'tmeetonecriteria.Heather:Sogoingbacktothe“wineistoxic”thing,I'mnotawineexpert.Iwas,like,wakingupeverymorningandcheckingInstagramtoseewhatyouwereupto.Sojealous,becausethevineyardslookedgorgeous,notreallyjealous,butexcitedforyouandwantingtovisitsomeday.Butgoingbacktothewineistoxicthing,youknow,I'vebeensortofonajourneywiththatwiththiswholethingwhereatfirstIwaslike,"Yeah,wineisgoodforyou."BecauseIreadallthestudies,but,youknow,studiescan,sortof,theycanbedesignedto,sortof,saywhateveraresearcherwantstosay.Soit'salotharderonceyoustartdiggingintohowstudiesareconstructedinthequalityofthem.Youstartdevelopingopinionsormaybemoreskepticismaboutwhatyou'reinitiallytold.So,youknow,thishasbeenajourneyforme.Andso,Iwentfrom,"Wineisreallygreatforyou,"tolike,"maybewineisnotsogreatforyou."ButoneofthethingsthatIfeellikehelpedmesortofframehowwinefitsintomylifeistheideathatstressistoxic,butsmallamountsofstressareactuallybeneficial.Wecallithermeticstress,beneficialstress.SoIcreatestressinmylife.Heatshotproteinsfromsaunatherapy,likethat'sastress,butitbenefitsthebodybecauseitmakesitstronger.And,youknow,evenexerciseisastress,andthosethings,butit'salotdifferentthanchronicstress.AndIfeellikewhatI'vedoneis,wine,Ilove.Iloveitwithameal,anditis...Therewasastudyrecently.Idon'tknowifyousawit,andifIhadknownweweregonnadiveintothis,maybeIwouldhavegrabbedit,butwheretheytalkedabouthowwineactuallyimproveslike,cleaningofthebrain.Andtheyevenstudieditagainst,Ibelieve,acontrolthatjustwasdoingnothingatall,solikemaybewaterorwhatever.Butthatitdoesinsmallamountsinducebeneficialchangeswhereyou'recleaningthebrain.Butwe'retalkingaboutreallysmallamounts,justlikewe'retalkingaboutsmallamountsof,youknow,heattherapyorexercise.Likenoamountof...Well,ifyouexercisealldaylong,andyounevergiveyourbodytimetorestandrepair,thenyou'renotdoingyourbodyanyfavors.Andso,Ireallyembraceitaspartofmylife,butit'salsonotjustbecauseithasphysiological,likebenefits,butalsobecauseIfeellikeithassocialandemotionalbenefits.Whenyou'rewithotherfamiliesandyou'reenjoyingsomethingtogether,likewesharemealsandstufflikethat,there'sthatbenefittheretooofhowitbringspeopletogether.Butjustathoughtontoxicity.Youknow,Ithinkwehearthewordtoxic,andit'sascaryword,but,youknow,soisstress.Andyetstress,itcanbeourfriend,andyouknow,evenwater,notthatI'mmakingacomparisonthatyouneedtodrinkwine,becauseyoureallydon't.But,youknow,evenwater


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canbetoxicatsomelevel.SoIthinkthere's,like,thatspectrumforjustsomanythingsinourlife.Like,therearedifferenttypesoffoodsthat,youknow,youcandowelloninsmallamounts,butmaybeshouldnotmake90%ofyourdiet,andthosekindsofthings.Katie:Ithinkthat'sanamazingpoint,thatyeah,it'sthedosagethatreallymakesitwhetherit'stoxicornot.Andthatappliestoalmosteveryfoodweeat,likeyousaid,tostress,toevenwater.Youcandrinktoomuchwaterandmakeyourselfreallysick.Andcertainly,Irespectanyonewhohaschosennottodrinkwineforany,likereligiousreason,orhealthreason,orhashadastrugglecertainlywithalcoholism,andI'mnottryingtosaythateveryoneshoulddrinkwineeitherbyanymeans.We'redefinitely,Iknowneitheroneofusisonthatpage.ButIdothinkthatforalotofpeople,itcanbeagreatthingandagreatadditiontolife.AndonethingInoticedtooisadifference.Is,intheU.S.itseemslikeoften,noteveryone,butalotoftimesalcoholisanescape.It'slikeyourlifeissostressfulthatyou'regoingtogoescapeontheweekendbydrinkingwineordrinkingbeerorhangingoutwithyourfriends.And,certainly,thecommunityaspectofthatisgreat.ButIthinkit'salittlebitdangerous,andalittlebitofaslipperyslopetoviewalcoholasanescape.Andifthat'swhyyou'returningtoalcohol,thenmaybeitwouldalsobemoreimportanttoaddressthesourceofthatbeforeincorporatingalcoholintoyourlife.BecauseInoticedinEurope,they'resofamily-centeredandcommunity-centered,thattheywouldallcometogetheratnightanddrinkwine,butitwasjustonesmallpartofthiscommunitygathering.Andthefocuswasthecommunity,andthatwastheirstressrelief.SoIthinkthat'sagreatpointthatyoumadeaboutobviouslytheamounts,keepingitlow,andanythinginextremeamounts,especiallyalcoholcanbeverydangerous.Butwhenit'sintherightsettingwithcommunity,withpeople,thenIthinkitcanhaveitsplace.Heather:Andeverybody'sdifferentinwhattheyrespondtobest.Like,Ipersonallydon'tlovecryotherapy.I'lldoitifIwanttorelievestress,becauseitdoes.Itreleasesallthoseendorphins,itfeelsgreat.Butphysiologically,I'mhardwiredtomoreenjoysaunatherapy.Ipreferheat.AndIthinksomepeople...thisisgonnabesomethingthatbenefitssomepeopleorthattheyfeelgood,andthensomepeoplejustflatoutdon'tfeelgreatwhentheydrinkanykindofwineoralcohol,becausethat'stheirphysiological,youknow,waythatthey'remade.Andthat'sfine.Katie:Totally.Andasawrappingupnote,beforewemoveontootherthingsaboutEurope,Ijustwannasayforanyonewhothinksthatit'sthesulfitesinwinethatarecausingtheproblem,becauseIactuallythoughtthatforalongtimetoo,that'sworthresearchingmoreifthat'swhatyouthinkyourreactiontowineis.BecauseIthoughtIdidworsewithredwineandIthoughtitwasbecauseofthesulfites.Anditturnsoutthatredwinenaturally,actuallyhaslesssulfitesthatwhitewine,andthatredwine,mostcommerciallymaderedwine,hastheadditionoffooddyesthatcancausethesamereactionsthatyouthinksulfitesarecausing.Orit'stheexcesssugar.Someofthewinesthatwereatthesefairs,becausetheyhadtopublishalltheresults...Likewewenttoacoupleofwinefairs,andtheyhadtolisttheirsugarandalcoholcontentandallthat.SomeofthemhadmoresugarthanCoca-Cola.Like,yeah,ifIdrinksixglassesofthatinonenight,Iwouldfeelterriblenomatterwhatitwas,likealcoholornot.Sothat'sjustanotherencouragementIwouldsayis,ifyouthinkyou'rereactingtosulfitesandit'sinredwine,itmayactuallybefooddyes.Andthatmightbewineornot,anothergoodcluetolookatforyourownhealth.Heather:Didyoufindoutifthere'sadifferenceinpolyphenolcontentbetweenredandwhite?Imean,I'vealwaysheardthatredismorerichinpolyphenols.Butisthattrue?Didyou...Katie:So,sortof.So,I'mgonnaprobablybutcher...Icanneverpronouncethisword,butresveratrol?Okay,Isaiditright,ishigh...


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Heather:Ihavenoidea.Ijustreadit.Katie:Thisisthecurseoftheblogger.Wecanreadthebigwords,butthenwehavetosaytheminpublicandthenwegetembarrassed.Redwinehasahigherconcentrationofthat,butwhitewinehasothertypesofpolyphenolsthatarealsoantioxidant.So,theybalanceeachotherout,andit'sreallyaspectrumtoo.Redwinestypically,theskinstaysinlonger,sothenyougetahigherconcentrationfromtheskin.Whitewines,mostofthem,sotheystaywhiteandnotgetanorangecolor,theskinsareonlyinthereforlikeonetosevendays.Butthere'salsoorangewines,whicharenew,whichIhadneverheardofuntilDryFarmsentsomeinmybox,they'rekindofinthemiddle.Sothey'rewhitewinesbuttheskinsareleftonlongersotheygetanorangecolorandalittlebitmorecomplextastesotheywouldcomparemoretoaredwine.Heather:Okay,cool.Katie:Sofromthere,let'stalkaboutEurope,becauseIhadneverbeen...Ihadbeenbrieflybutnotforthislong,andIlike,totallywannagobackrightnow.Heather:Yeah.So,oneofthefirstthingsyoutoldmewhenyougotbackwasthattherearealotofthingsthattheydodifferentlyinEuropethatyouthinkthatwecouldlearnsomethingfromhere.Sowhatwerethosethings?Let'sstartwithjustone.Whatwasthetopthingthatyounoticed?Katie:Totally.So,likeItoldyou,Iwaskeepinganoteinmyphoneof,I'mlike,"Oh,I'mgonnadoablogpostaboutthingswecanlearnfromEurope."Anditstartedoffaslike,"Oh,seventhingswecanlearnfromEurope."ThenIcamehome,itwaslike,"35thingsyoucanlearnfromEurope."Andnotthatit'safantasy.Iknowplaceisafantasy,buttheydoalotofamazingthings.Topreface,Iwillalsosaythere'smaybeafewthingstheycouldlearnfromus,likenothavingachildgoonyourbackwhiledrivingamotorcycle.Heather:Whoa.Katie:Justsaying.But,there'salotofamazingthings.ProbablyifIhadtosaythetoponewouldbethecommunityandthesenseoffamily.Just,Iwasblownawaywithhowmuchthatwasthefocusoftheirlifeandhowyoucouldtellthatjustfromyourinitialconversationswiththemorseeingthem.Like,it'salmosthardtodescribe,becauseIfeellikeourlivesaresobusy,andperhaps,that'swhyit'seasierforthem,isthatthey'relivinginsmaller,moreisolatedcommunities,atleastwherewevisited.Andtheyhavetodependoneachothermorefordailylifeandjustinteraction,butalso,they'relesshecticthanweare.IfeellikeinAmerica,atleastwhereIlive,it'ssoeasyforpeopleto,theyjust,go,go,go,go,go,andit'skids'activitiesandadultactivitiesandit'sjust...nobody'severhome.Andtothem,likethecommunityaspectandfamilydinnertimeiscompletelynon-negotiable.It'slike,notevenaquestion.It'sjustsoassumedthatit'sgonnahappeneverynight.Andtheyspendthreehourseatingdinnerslowly,likemultiplecourses,butthey'resmallcourses.Andthey'retalking,they'relaughing,they'redrinkingwine,butthey'rejustspendingtimetogether.AndIfeltliketherewassucharichnessinhowmuchtheykneweachother,andlikehowclosetheywere,andespeciallytosee,itwassoneat,multiplegenerations.Inmostofthesevineyards,therearemultiplegenerationslivinginthesameplace.Andtosee,like,evenhowinvolvedthegrandparentsandtheauntsanduncleswerewitheachother'skids.AndlikeItrulythinkinAmericaandEuropethere'snothingquitesopreciousasgrandparentsandgrandkids.It'sadorable,buttheyjustmakeitsuchapriority.AndIlovethat.Like,thatwasthepartthatreallystolemyheart.Heather:TherewasabookIreadrecently,andIthinkyou'vereadtoo,"HowtoRaiseanAdult."AndmyfavoritetakeawayfromthebookwashowliberatedIfeltwithrespecttotime.Itreallyarguedthatkidsneed


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moreunstructuredtime,andthatwe'rereallydoingthemafavorbyfocusingoncommunityoveractivities,andnotthatIreallyneededahugenudgeinthatdirection,butwhatitencouragedmetodowastoreachouttothepeopleinmylifethatIseeregularly,butwasn'treallytryingtobuildbondswith,becauseIsortoffeltliketheywerebusyandIdidn'twanttoimpose.AndthenIreallystartedseeinghowmuchofabenefititistojustbeabletorecognizeandtoreallytalktopeopleandgettoknowtheirstoriesalittlebitmore.Andit'smadesuchadifferenceforme,because,youknow,we'renewtothearea,andofcoursewehaveclosefriendsalreadythatarelocal,butthisisdifferent.AndIthinkalotofthatcomesfromthissamekindofmindset,whereyouvaluejusttheknowledge,thegettingtoknoweachotherevenifyoudon'thaveasmuchincommonmaybe,becauseyou'renot,like,maybetravelingtoaplacewhereyou'reallunitedaroundonegoal,andwe'rechoosingnottobeunitedaroundlikeproximity,becausethey'reinourneighborhood,orsomethinglikethat.It'sbeenaninterestingshift,andsomethingthatIthinkmywholefamilyhasbenefitedfrom.Andit'sstretchingusinways.Like,it'sallowingustogrowinwayswherewe'reconnectingwithpeopleoverwaydifferentthingsthanwhat...thatareusuallyourinterestsorpassions.Katie:Yeah.That'sanamazingpointtoo.Ithinkit'sahardthingintoday'sworld.There'ssomuchpressureto,like,putallthekidsinalltheactivitiesandtomakesurethey'reperformingatthetopoftheirgameandforevenadultstodoalltheseactivitiesandtobeatthetopofourgames.AndIthinkthat'sonethingIthinkwedefinitelycanlearnfromEurope,isjust,like,toslowdownalittle,likeyousaid,andhavethatcommunity.Andthat'ssomethingnewforustoosinceourmove.Andjustseeingthekidsinthatfreeplayandhowmuchtheylearnfromthatisshocking.Like,asparentswetrysohardtomakesureourkidslearnalltheselifelessonsandlearnhowtobenicetoothersandlearnhowtoinclude,andyoustickthemoutinagroupof30kidsandtheylearnthatreallyfast,becauseifthey'remeannooneincludesthem.Oriftheycallnames,theygetpushedoutofthegroupfortheday.Andtheylearnhowto,like,watchoutforeachotherandtoworkthroughthingsandtonothaveparentsjumpinginandfixingtheproblems.AndIfeellikeatleastminearethrivingwithoutthesamestructureandwithouthavingstructuredactivitiesasmuch.Andyeah,theymayneverbeworldclassviolinplayers,butthey'rerunning10milesadayandclimbingtreesandmakinglifelongfriendships,soI'mhappywiththattrade-off.Heather:Yeah.Sameforus.Katie:So,acoupleotherthings,randomthings.I'mjustgonnagothroughafewrandomones.Theydon't...atleastwiththeareaswewere,theydidnotuseclothesdryers.Andso,wewoulddrivethroughplacesandeverybodywouldhaveclotheshangingoutonthesideoftheirhouse,orontheirbalcony,orintheirfrontyard.Ijustthoughtlike,it'samazinghowmuchofastarkcontrastthatistowhereIlive.Becausewhereweare,like,mostpeople,theHOAwon'tletyouevenhaveaclotheslineevenifyouwantedone,whichisbizarretome.Butitmakessomuchsense,becauseIknowsomeofyouguyshavegottenontomebeforewhenI'vetalkedaboutputtingclothesinthedryer.Like,"Whydoyouhaveadryer?It'snotenergyefficient."Andthat'ssotrue.Andtheyjustaresomuchbetteraboutthat.Ifeelliketheyalsoprobablyusemorenaturallaundrystuff,becauseonetimewewashedclothes,theyhandedmeabucketofthiswhitepowderystuffthattheyhadmadethathadlikenosmellandno,andsoI'mguessingitwaslikeprobablywashingsodaandboraxorsomething.Heather:That'sreallycool.Soaretheyevendoingthisinsmall,like,apartmentsettings,orisithangingfrombalconies,or...?Katie:Yeah.Even,wedrovethrough...wherewasit?Naples,whichisaverycrowdedcity,likelotsofhighrises.


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AndIdon'tknowifitwasjustlike,laundryday,orthisiseveryday,butalmosteverybalconyhadlikefiveorsixpiecesofclothinglikeclothespinnedontothebalcony.Heather:Nice.Katie:WhichI'mlike,it'sactuallygreat,becausewebothknow,ifyou'veusedtoxiclaundrystuffinthepast,thesunhelpspullallofitoutoftheclothing,orifit'sclothingwithflameretardantsorpesticidesinthecottonorwhatever,thesunreallyhelpsmitigatethat.Andthey'redryingtheirclothesinthesunalltime.So,supercoolandfreetrip.Also,theyaresogoodaboutrecyclingthere.Like,Iwouldgoopenacabinettothrowsomethingawayandthere's,like,fivebins.Andtherewas,like,thelittlestonewasforwaste,andthentherewasglass,andmetal,andpaper.Mostofthemdidn'tevenhaveaplasticbin,becausethere'ssolittleplasticthere.Thatreallyshockedmeaswell.Heather:Yeah,Iknow.Thereareseveralcountries,andIcan'trememberwhichonethatIwasreadingabout,buttheyjusthavesolittlewaste,becausetheyfoundwaystoreuseeverything.Andthat'saninfrastructurethingthatIthinkthatweasanationcouldbenefitfromtryingtodrivethingstowardmoreinfrastructure,toactuallyfosterrecycling.BecauseIknowwhereweare,wehavelimitedoptionsintermsofwhatwecanevenrecycle.Katie:Yeah.Like,Iknowbothofus,we'dhavetodriveanhouroutofthewaytotakeeverythingtorecycling,butalso,Ithinkwecouldalllimitevenmorethanwedo,withtheamountofplasticthatweencounter.Becauselike,wedon'thaveanyplasticinourhome,butIthinkaboutthenumberofthingsthatcomeintoourhousefromthestorethatareinplastic.Andthere,theydon't...soifyougotothegrocerystore,notonlydotheynothaveinmostplaces,plasticgrocerybagsatall,oriftheyhavethemyouhavetopayforthem.Anditwaslikeanywherebetween,theequivalentoflike,25centstoadollarperbag.Sotheybringtheirownbags,whichisawesome.Theydon'treallyhaveproducebags.Theywereusinglike,pillowcase-lookingclothbagsforthat,andmostofthe...eventhethingsontheshelveswereglass,ortheywerejustdifferentpackaging.Andeveninlike,thelittletownsespecially,theyhad...likeyousaid,theyweretheirowninfrastructure.Theyhadtolike,bekindofself-sufficientintheselittletowns.Sotherewouldbeabutcherthatmadeallthemeatforthetownandapastamakerthatmadeallthepastaforthetown,andpeopleweregoingintherewithlike,glassjarsorglasscontainersandgettingstuffdirectlyintothat,insteadofinplastic.Heather:Weretherearealotofgardenstoo?BecauseI'mimaginingthatifyougetthebasics,you'vegotlike,yourpastaandyou'vegotyourbutcher,andthenyougointothestoreforafewthingsthatyou,sortof,supplementwithlikeherbsandstufflocally?Katie:Yeah,absolutely.Everybodyhadagardenofsomekind.Andoneoftheplaces,itwascalledCasaDuval,itwasmyfavoritevineyardthatwevisited.Itwasthesmallest,butitwasjustthefamilyaspectandhowself-sufficienttheywere.Sotheparentswereintheir80s,Ithink.Theirfivekidsalllivedouttherewiththeirspousesandtheirgrandkidsallintheirownlittlehousesonthisvineyard,andtheyhaveolivesandtheygrowtheirowngarden.Andtheysaidthateverythingthattheyeatisgrownontheirfarmwiththeexceptionoftheybuycoffee,sugar,andorganicflourtomakepastaatthestore,that'sit.Everythingelsetheygrow.Heather:Wait,wait,wait.Coffee,sugarandflour?Katie:That'sit.Theysaid,like,theyhaveacowandtheymaketheirownmozzarellacheeseandtheygrow


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olivesandtheymaketheirownoliveoil.Andthatwasacommonthing,too.Everybodyhasolivetrees.And,atleastsomebodyinthecommunityhasanolivepress,andso,thattimeofyearwhentheolivesareharvested,theywouldalltaketheirolivestothatplace,andjustpressthemandhaveolivesforthenextyear,oliveoil.Heather:Wow.Katie:Butthey...Thisfamilywassosweet.Like,themomkeepsupwiththechickensinthegarden,andthegrandkids,andevenhelpsinthevineyard.Andtheytoldthestoryofhowtheystartedoffwhentheyfirstgotmarried,andtheydidn'thavemuchmoney,andtheyfoundthisland,andsohehadgottenamortgagefromthebank.Ittookhim30yearstopayitoff,butnowtheyactuallyfinallyownit,asoflikeprobably30yearsagonow,forthey'vebeenmarriedsolong.Buthowproudtheywereofowningthislittlefarmthattheyhad,andmakingthesewines,smallscalenaturalwines.Butjustseeingthefamilyaspectwasjust,absolutelyincredibleandhowtheyallcametogetherfordinnereveryday,howthegrandkidsall,like,rodetheirbikesaroundthroughthegrapevinesallday,andjustsocooltosee.Butyeah,theydefinitelygrowtheirownfood.Iwasshocked.Heather:Youknow,Ihavelivedon40acresandI'velivedonawholelotlessthan40acres,andyoureallydon'tneedthatmuchspacetogrowasubstantialamount.Anditdoesn'tactuallyhavetobehard,especiallyifyou'regrowingthingslikeherbs,orifyou'reCanadian,herbs.We'realwaysteasingourfriendsthatcallitherbs.Istillcan'tsayit.Butyouknow,youreallydon'tneedalotofspace,especiallyinthat,becausethey'relowmaintenanceandthey'renothardandIjust...Andit'ssomuchfunforkidstobeinvolved.Like,mydaughterreallylovestohelpoutwithagardenand,youknow,wehaveverylittlespacenowcomparedtowhatweusedtohave,andyetit'sstilltotallydoable.So,youdon'tneedahugeplace,ahuge,like,vineyardtogrowawholeloton.Katie:Yeah,absolutely.Eventheplaceswherewevisitedthat,itwasallgrapes,exceptfortheirverydirecthouse,theyallhadatinygarden,buttheywouldjustgrowstuffallyear.So,socooltosee.Andontheplasticnotetoo,Iwondered.BecausethatwasaquestionIhadinmyheadgoingin,waslike,"WhyaresomanyplacesinEuropesomuchhealthierthantheU.S.?"Like,"What'sactuallycontributingtothat?"AndIthinkalotofthesethings,obviouslylikethecommunityaspectalone,likeweknow,that'ssoimportant,havinggoodfriendships,andfamilybonds,andsocialstructures.Likethatalone,ismoreimportantthanexercise.It'smoreimportantthanquittingsmoking.It'ssuperimportant.Ithinktheyalsohaveoveralllowerstresslevels.ButIthinkthatsomanyofthesethingsalsoreallycontribute,especiallytheplastics.Just,ImeanIknowwebothtalkaboutthis,andwriteaboutthisbutjust,howmanyproblemscomefromplasticoveruse.Andseeingboysandgirlsgoingthroughpubertyearlier,andboyshavingsuchlowtestosteroneduringpuberty,whichisunheardof,andhavingtoomuchestrogen.Andjust,Ireally,Idoworryseeingourkidsandseeingtheproblemsthatsomanykidsinthisgenerationaregonnafacefromthat,anditwasdrastictome.Theyareatleasttheareaswherewewere.Andgranted,weweremoreinthecountrymostofthetime,andevenkidsatthattime,theypitchinfromtheagethatthey'reable,they'reveryactive.ButIdidnotseeasingleoverweightkidtheentiretimewewerethere.Heather:Wow.Youknow,Iwasintheairportrecently,nottoorecently,butthisyear,andIhappenedtositnexttopharmaceuticalrepwhowasonthephonewithhermom.Andshewastalkingabouthowthey'redevelopingadrugthatblockspubertyinsmallchildren,becauseit'sbecomingsomuchmorecommon.AndIwasjustsittingthere,youknow,like,kindofsortofsinkingintomyseat,justbecausethethoughtofhowmuchthingsareshiftingisjust...It'ssosad,buttherearethingsthatwecando.Imeanwereallycanlimitouruseanditdoesmakeahugedifference.


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Katie:Yeah,absolutely.AndIfeellikeasmomsit's...that'sanotheroneofthosethatseemsalmostinsurmountable,becauseintheU.S.,plastictrulyiseverywhere.ButIthinkevenifwejustmakethebasiceasyswitchesoflike,ourdishesinourkitchen,andourcupsthatwedrinkoutof,andcertainlyanythingthattouchesheatedfoodorthatwestorefoodinforlongamountsoftimes.Thatcanhelp,oranythinglikethatfood'sheating,becauseIknowmostofthemeatwebuystillcomesinsomeformofplastic.Heather:Right.Katie:Butifit'sfrozen,andyou'regettingthemeatout,andbeforeit'sheated,likethat'sstillgoingtobealowerexposurethanifyou'reheatingitinanythingthat'splastic.AndIthinkthatthosesmallstepscanmakeabigdifferenceovertime,andalongwithavoiding,like,reallyharshfragrancesincleaningproducts.Andalotofthosecanhavephytoestrogensaswell,sothat's...yeah.Andanotherthing,sotheyalso...Thiscouldalsocontributetoit.Theywalkeverywhere.So,wewerethereforunder2weeksandwewalkedover75miles.Heather:Whoa.Andyou'renotjusttalkingaboutlike,flatmiles,right?Thisisnotjustlevelground.Katie:Right.Yeah,no.Likealotofthatwasupstairs,wewereuphills,orupmountains.Andtheamazingpartis,liketheelderlypeople,thekidsinthesevillagesandtowns,theyweredoingitfasterthanwewere.Theywerejustlikemountaingoats.Theycouldjustscalethesethings,itwasamazing.Heather:Wow.Katie:Andjustthinkinglike,we'llallhopinthecartogosomewhereamileaway.Andwecouldtotallywalkthere,andjusthow,like,theywouldn'tevendreamofgettinginthecartogoamileaway.Theywouldjustwalkthere.Andcertainly,there'sdifferences.Andit'shardersomeplacestherebecauseit'smorecompact,andhistorical,thestreetsaren'tasbig,theydon'thaveparkinggarages.Itwouldbeharderforthemtodrivethere.Like,wecanprettymuchparkeverywhere,butit'sharderforthem,buttheywouldn'teventhinkofgettingintheircar.Heather:Youknow,Iwillfinditforyou,butIreadabookrecently,thatwastalkingaboutthiswithkids.It'scalled,"Playborhood."Itwasareallygoodbook.Buthewastalkingaboutwalkabilityofareas,andIknowthatnotallofuscanjustuprootandmoverightaway.Butwhenthereisatimewhereyou'rebuyinganewhouseorwhatever,onethingyoucando,andI'llgetyoutheURL,isyoucanentertheneighborhoodyou'relookingatintoawebsiteandit'llgiveyouawalkabilityscore.Like,"Canyougettoastorefromhere?Canyou,youknow...istherelikeaplaygroundnearby?"Andit'sareallyinterestingthingbecause,youknow,walkabilityisnotaculturalpriorityyet,butIfeellikewe'removinginthatdirection.Andespeciallyforsomefamilies,itismoreofapriority.Andso,youcan,sortof,asyou'relookingforanewplacetoliveorwhatever,usethatasoneofyourcriteria,forlooking.Katie:That'sreallycool.Yeah,we'llfindthatandputthatintheshownotes.Andthat'sanotherpointthatIlovethatyoutouchedon,becauseIthinkthat'ssomethingthathasbecomesomuchmoreimportanttobothofusinthelastcoupleofyears,isthatcommunityaspect,andtheoutdooraspect,andthekidshavingotherkidsandfriendships,andushavingfriendshipswithpeopleclosetous.That'spartiallywhywebothmademoves,likeprettybigmovesrecently,tobeinareaswhereourkidscanplayoutsideanditfeelslikethe1950s,andtheycanridetheirbikes.AndItrulythinkthat,Imean,Iknowwewriteabouthealthmostofthetime.Ithinkweunderestimate,asasocietyandevenindividually,howmuchthatgoestowardsfixingsomanyproblemsinourhealth,andinsociety.Andpersonally,Itrulybelieveifwecouldgobacktoo,andstart,allofus,makingconsciousdecisionstomoveintoareaslikethat,orcreateareaslikethat,thatwouldsolveandcuresomanyoftheproblemsthatwe'reseeinginsociety.


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Heather:"Playborhood"hassomegoodideastooforcreatingcommunity.AndIwouldrecommendthatyoumightwannaputalinktothatbookintheshownotes,becauseitdefinitely...wecantransformcommunities,andcommunitieshavedoneit.Theyhavejusttransformedplacesthatwouldhavekindofbeenconsidered,sortoflike,socialdesertsintolittleareasthatreallyworkedforthatgroupofpeople,andit'sprettycool.Katie:Yeah,Ilovethat.We'lldefinitelyincludealinkintheshownotes.Andalsoonthatnote,likeEuropeans,ifit'stoofartowalk,they'llrideabikewaybeforethey'lldriveacar,becauseit'seasierandwewouldbestuckintrafficsometimes,tryingtogotothenextplaceandallthesebikeswouldjustbelike,whizingpastus.AndIwaslike,"Igetit."Like,they'resomuchbetteraboutthat,andtheywouldhavetheirbackpackandtheywouldbecomingandgoingfromthegrocerystoreorwherever.Andeventhoseofusnotcloseenoughtoastoretowalk,wecouldprobablybiketoagrocerystore.Iknowwhereareit'dbealittlebitofahike,butwecoulddoit.We'dgetaworkoutin.Andthatwastheotherinterestingthing.Theydidn'tcareaboutworkingout,andtheywerealloverall,like,fitandhealthy.AndIthinkit'sjustbecausetheymove.Theydon'thavetoexercise,theyjustmove,andthat'ssomethingforsurewecouldalllearnfrom.Yeah,andtheyalsohaveanaptime.So,thisisanotheronethatIloved.LikeIhadreadaboutthis,thatinEurope,theyhavesiestainItaly.Like,at2:00everybodytakesanap,buttheyliterallyactuallydo.Likeyoucan'tgotoacoffeeshopat2p.m.becauseeverybody'stakinganap.Heather:What?Katie:Yeah.It'samazing,andit'sahugepartoftheirculture.IknowthisisinothercountriesbesidesItalyaswell.Itwasn'tsomuchinAustria,butinItaly,that'showitwas.Andtheywouldliterallyjusttakeacouplehoursandrestintheafternoon.Ithinkthetraditioncomesfromitbeingsohot,andalotofplacestherestilldon'thaveairconditioning,buttheywouldrestinthehottestpartoftheday,andjustcooldown,andnap.AndIwaslike,"Howwonderfulisthat?"Like,weallknowwedon'tgetenoughsleep,andkidsneednaps,butIlovethatthat'sapartoftheirculture.AndIwondertoo,andmaybeyoucouldspeaktothiswithliketheheatshotproteinsandthetemperaturevariability,thatsincealotofthemstilldon'thaveairconditioning,doyouthinkthatcouldcontributetowhythey'rehealthieraswell,becausetheyhavetodealwithextremetemperaturessomuchmorethatwedo?Heather:Oh,yeah.Bothways.Imeanifthey...becauseImean,incertainplaces,incertainclimates,itcangetreallycoldatnightevenifit'sreallyhotduringtheday.Definitelythat'schallengingthebody,andsortofcausingittoneedtoadaptmore.Andthat'sthatbeneficialstresswe'retalkingabout.Butmyquestionis,dotheyhaveamoreextendednightperiod?Likedotheysocializelaterintotheeveningthanmostofusdobecausethey'regettingthatbreak?I'mjustcuriousifthey'rebreakingupthedayortheystillgotobedprettyearlytoo?Katie:That'sagoodquestion.Sotheydo,Ithinktheystayuplaterthan,likeAmericansprobablyshouldn'tstayuptobehealthy.Liketheystayup'til11to11:30or12seemedtobetheaverage.Theydidtakethattwo-hournapintheafternoon,andthentheysleptatleastwherewewere,untilaboutsevenish.Theywerestillgetting,like,overallgoodamountofsleep.Heather:Right.Solike,eighthoursatnightplusarestperiodduringtheday.Katie:Yeah.AndIthinkthat'sjustbecauseit'ssomuchmore...atleastthetimeofyearforusbeingthereinJune,it'ssomuchmoretolerabletohangoutintheeveningwhenit'scoolerandthebreezeisthereandit'sgorgeous,thanintheheatoftheday.So,theyjust...


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Heather:Iknowweassumethatouronesleeppatternis,like,theonlywaytodoit,youknow,whereyoublocksleep.Butthere's...oryouhave,like,alargeblockofsleep.Butthere'shistoricalprecedentforbreakingitup,eveninthemiddleofthenight,whichIthinkiscrazy.Like,Idon'twannagetupat2a.m.andgovisitpeople.ButyouknowwhatI'mtalkingabout?Likethesehistorical...Katie:Yeah.Likethebiphasicsleepthatpeopleusedtodo.Like,theywouldwakeup,they'dhaveliketwo,four-hoursleepperiodsinsteadofaneight-hoursleepperiod.Andthey'd,like,hangoutforanhourinthemiddleofnightor,yeah.Butthere'salso...Iwilltrytofindthestudyfortheshownotes.Isawonerecentlyabouthownap-timecouldactuallybemorebeneficialthanalongersleepatnight.Justbecauseofthesamething.You'reinandoutofsleepcycles.Sothebodyis,like,havingmorehormonalchanges,soyouhavemoretimetoadapt.SoIdon'tthinkthere's,like,toomuchevidenceonthatyet.Butthere'sdefinitelylotofanecdotalevidencefromEurope,forthey'vebeendoingthisforhundredsandhundredsofyears.Heather:Now,inItaly,whendoestheirworkdayend?Becauseitsoundslikewhattheycouldbedoingpartlyis,iftheirworkdayisendingclosetothesametimeasours,thentheyareprioritizingrelationshipsandrestalittlebitmore,becausethey'retakingsomeofthatworkdayandsettingasideforrest.Oraretheyjustworkinglater?Katie:Theyworkalittlelater.Thingsseemtobeopento,like,6or6:30.Restaurantswere,like,laterthanthat.Butversusthekindof5:00istheusualendingtimeintheU.S.Butthen,itwentstraightintosocialtime.Like,especiallyintheselittletownsandvillages,whichwere,like,soquaintandamazing,theywouldwork,andthentheywouldallkindofgatherattheselocalrestaurantsorattheirhomes,andtheywouldcookdinnertogether,andtheywouldhangoutfor,like,severalhours,andthenheadhomeanddoitagain.Andjust...Yeah.Ithinkthattheydefinitelydoprioritizetherelationshipsinthecommunitymore.Andjust,itwassofascinatingtomebecauseit'satotallydifferent...like,itwashardformetoadapttheideaofnaptime.I'mlike,"Can'twejustgohangoutatthecoffeeshop?"Also,onanotherrandomnote,Iwasshocked.Theydrinkcoffee,like,alldaylong,prettymuch,butit'sadifferentkind.Sotheywouldonlyeverorderacappuccinointhemorning,becausethat'slikethemorningdrink.Andthenthere'slikeseveralotherkindsofcoffeethatcouldbeorderedduringtheday.Butthey'dorderespressoatnightafterdinneranddessert.It'slikeateeny-tinycupofespressoaspartofdessert.AndIwaslike,"IwillbeupallnightifIdrinkespressoat10:30atnight."Buttheycandoitjustfine.Andoneofthemexplainedtome,it'slike,youdrinkthecoffee,andthenthekeycoffeewhich,isliketheapéritif,liketheliqueurthatbringsyoubackdownfromthecaffeinetobalanceeachotherout.So,notsureaboutthehealthbenefitsofthatone.ButIwasjustamazedbytheircaffeinetolerance.Heather:Yeah.Goingbacktotheworkschedule,youknow,Ithinkweassumethatyou'regonnagetmoreoutofaperson,like,ifyouhaveeightsolidhoursandyou,sortofpushthemagainstit.Butthatideaofhavingarest...Iknowalotoftimes,there'sthatconceptofIneedtosleeponit.Youknow,thatthereisthatwholesomethingthatwe'redoingatnightwhenwe'resleepingwhereourbrainisconsolidatingideas,filteringoutwhat'snotimportant,andthenapplyingcreativeapproachestowhatisimportanttryingtosolvethoseproblems.Soit'sinterestingtomethattheywouldstepawayfromwork,getsomerest,andthencomebacktoit.IbetthatlasthourandahalfoftheirworkdayiswaymoreproductivethanthetypicalAmericanlasthourandahalfoftheworkday,whereyou'rejustexhaustedandyou,like,pushthroughasaboutashardasyoucan.Wouldyouagreewiththat?Katie:Yeah.Anditmademethinkwhenyousaidthat.Like,howmanypeopletalkaboutthat,like,2p.m.slumpor,like,theafternoonslumpafterlunch?


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Heather:Right.And...It'slikeaphysiologicalthing.Katie:Right.It'slike,somaybethereissomethingtoit.Maybewearedesignedtohavealittlebitofabreakthere,andthencomebackmorerefreshed.Andyeah.That'sagreatpoint.Let'ssee.Ithinkwe'vetalkedaboutmostofthebigones.I'mdefinitelygoingtobewritingmoreaboutitsoon.ButlikeIsaid,Idon'twanttoglamorizeanyculture,becauseeveryculturehastheirproblems.AndIknowsomebodywetalkedto,theypay60%intaxwhichIdon'tenvy.ButIthink,likeanything,Itrulybelieveinlifeandeverywherewecanlearnsomethingfromeverywhereandeveryone.AndIdefinitelylearnedalotonthistrip.I'mnormallyprettytalkativeandIwasalmostsilentthewholetripjustbecauseIwasinaweand,like,somewhatoverstimulatedfromallofit.WestartedoutinRome.WhenIhad...IstudiedalotofEuropeanhistorywhenIwasyounger,andsotomeitwaslikewalkingthroughahistorybook.AndIjust,like,couldn'teventakeitallinandsoIwasstillprocessingthat.Andthentoseethesefamiliesandjustthecommunity.AndIwishIcouldadequatelyputintowordsjusthowincredibleitwasandhowmuchofagoalthat'sgonnabeformenowtocreatethatforourfamilies.BecauseI'malsonotaveryemotionalperson.Like,Idon'tcryeasily.Idon'tevencrywhenIhaveababy.I'mjust,like,superhappyandIdon'tcry.Heather:Icry.Katie:Itbroughtmetotears.Someofthesefamilies,justhowsweetitwas.Andhow,like,theyweresokindandgenerous.Andtheywere,like,makingthebestofeverythingtheyhadforusandjustshare.Thattheyweresogenerous,andsosharing,andsogiving.Andallaboutcommunity.Andjusttheleveloflovethattheyhadthatyoucouldimmediatelyjusttellwhenyoumetthemwasincredible.Andeventhoughtherewasalanguagebarrier,IgotalittlebitbetteratItalianbytheend,buttherewasalanguagebarrierinalotofplaces,butwestillcouldcommunicateprettywellandjust...Butthatcameacrosssoclearly,thesenseofcommunity.SoIguesstowrapup,thatwouldbemyencouragement.Iknowwetouchedonitalreadyalittlebit,butjustsomethingwecouldallkindofmulloverandworkonis,howcanweallfostercommunityinourownareas?Becausemaybeoursocietydoesn'tmakeiteasyanditdoesn'tlenditselftothat.ButIthinktherearethingsallofuscoulddonomatterwhatkindofareaweliveinandwhatkindofsituation,tomakeconsciouseffortstobuildthatmore.AndIthinkthatwouldhelp,reallyalotofusinsomanywaysmorethanwecouldeverknow,afterseeingjusthowdrasticallyitimpactstheirlives.Heather:Iagree.Anditdoesn'thavetobebigstuff.Like,recentlyinourneighborhood,anewfamilymovedinandtheywerebusyandunpacking.AndIliterallyjusthadtime.Ileftacardwithmyname,mykids'ages,andmyphonenumbersotheycantextmeiftheyeverneedanything.Andtheyweren'teven,Iguess,theirlittleonesansweredthedoorandmomwasupstairsstillunpackingandshewasprobablynotreallyreadyforguestsatthatmoment.Butlittlestufflikethathasbroughtourcommunitytogether.Andnowwehavetextthreadswhere,youknow,whenourkidsareroaminginourverysmalllittlearea.Wecantextandjustupdateifthere'sanythinganotherparentneedstoknow.Andit'ssuchasmallthingbutit'sjustlikereconnectingthosebondsthat...Idon'tknowhowtheysortofslippedawayfromus,butit'sjusteasy.Notalways,butitcanbe.Katie:Yeah.Exactly.Andwherewelivedbeforethis,itwasinagreatareawherethekidscouldplay.Butasfarasfor,like,womenandthatsenseofcommunity,Ikindofcreatedthatinadvertentlyjustrealizing,like,Idon'thaveanyfriendshereyetwhenwefirstmovedthere.Idon'tknowanyone.AndsoIjustsawsomeotherwomanatchurchonedayandwaslike,"Hey,doyouwannagotodinnerthisweek?Like,youaremypeople,I


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chooseyou.Let'sjustgotodinner."Andweendeduphavingamom'snightthatlasteduntilImoved,like,severalyears.Andwe'restillclosefriendsandwestillvisit.AndIthinksometimes,like,thatwouldbemyadvicetopeopletoo,islike,gofirst.Justbewillingtoputyourselfoutthere.Andbecauseit'shardforallofus.It'shardespeciallyintoday'sworld,tojustrandomlygouptosomeoneandmakefriendsandmeetsomeonenew.Butyouneverknow.Like,youmightendupmeetinganewbestfriendor,youknow,likealifelongfriend.Andso,Ithinkthat'soneencouragement.Dothatandteachyourkidstodothat.Justgofirst,andbethekindonefirst,andbuildthecommunitywithbabysteps.AndIthinkwecanallgetthere.Heather:Andourkidsarewatchingusandwe'reshowingthemhowtobeadults.Andwedon'twantthemtogrowup,becomeparents,andthenlosealloftheirsocialoutlets.Youknow,wewanttomodelthatforthem.Soit'sveryimportant,likeyousaid,toreachouttoothermomsandconnect.Katie:Exactly.AndIknowthis,like,togetscientificagain,askindofmydefault.Butthestudiesshow,like,evenpeopleinsuperstrongmarriages,womenneedotherwomenfriends,andguysneedguyfriends.Andtheyneedthatoutlet.Andlikeyousaid,Ithinkthat'ssoimportanttomodelforourkids.BecauseI'veseenfriendsofminethatgetlostinparenthood,andtheyrevolvearoundtheirkids.AndIgetit,becauseweallloveourkidsandwewantthebestforthem.Butit'shardtonotloseyourselfinthat.AndIthinkcommunitycanhelpbalancethataswell.Well.Andasalways,thankstoyouguysforlistening.IknowHeatherandIlovetohangoutandtalkwithyou.AndIhaveanewideathatIwantedtotrywithyouguystoday.SothisissomethingwealsodidonourEuropetrip.Everynightatdinner,oracouplenightsatdinner,wewouldgoaroundthetableandwewouldaskeachotheraquestion,like,aprettyhardquestion.Everythingfrom,"Whathappenswhenyoudie,"to,"howdoyoudefinelove,"to"whatmakesabestfriend?"Allthesethings.Butthecaveatisyoucouldonlyanswerin10wordsorless.Andbecausethiskindofgivesyoualotofinsightintosomeone,buttheycan'tgetpolitical,theycan't,like,sensor,theycan'tgetpoliticallycorrectandaddalltheseprepositionalphrasesthatmakeitsoundnicer.Theyhavetojustkindofanswer.Sototrysomethingnew,Iwouldloveifyouguyscould,inthecommentsofthisshow,theshownotesofthispostatwellnessmama.fm,I'mgonnagiveyouaquestion,andIreallytrulywouldlovetohearyouranswerin10wordsorless.Andthistime,thequestionIhave,kindofbasedonallofthestuffwetalkedaboutis,"Doeshardshipmakepeoplestrongerandwhy?"SoI'dlovetohearin10wordsorlessinthecomments.Andalso,justaremindertopleaseleaveanhonestratingorreview.Iactuallywantyourhonestfeedback.I'dlovetohearitiniTunesorStitcher,whereveryoulisten.Makesureyouusethecodeword"wellness."Andintwoweeks,Iwillchooseoneofyouandmentionthenameonthepodcast,sothatyouguyscan,whoeveritis,cane-mailmetogetaMyobuddyMassagerwhich,isoneofmyfavoritethingsintheworld.Becauseit'slikeadeeptissuemassage,pluspercussivemassage,plusinfraredheat,it'sincredible.Sothankyouallforlistening.It'salwaysapleasureandIappreciateyourtime.IknowtimeisyourmostvaluableresourceandIappreciateyouspendingitwithustoday.AndIhopetoseeyounexttimeon"TheHealthyMomsPodcast."Heyagain.It'sKatieIjustwantedtomentiononequickthingthatIforgottotellyouduringtheepisode.DryFarmWineswhichwetalkedaboutalotinthisepisode,theyareofferingaspecialofferjustforyouguys.Youcangetanextrabottleofwineforjustapennywithanyorderwhenyoutrythemout.AndIhavenodoubtthatyouwilllovethesewinesasmuchasIdo.Iexplainedthewholeprocesstheygothroughwiththetesting,thetastetesting,thelabtesting.It'ssuchanintensiveprocessandnowhavingseenthesesmallfamilyvineyardswherethesewinescomesfrom,IamevenmoreinlovewiththemthanIwasbefore.SoI'msogladthattheyhaveaspecialofferjustforyouguysincaseyouwannatotryit.Definitelywouldgivemyownpersonalrecommendationandhighlyencourageyoutotrythemout.Andofcourse,asalways,thankyouso


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muchforlistening.Yourtimemeanssomuchtome.IknowhowbusylifeisandIreallyappreciateyouspendingthistimewithme.AndIhopetoseeyouagainnextweekon"TheHealthyMomsPodcast."

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167- Lessons We Can Learn from Europe and Natural Wines (With … · 2018. 10. 1. · independent...

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