Larry MuffettWelcome to Seminars@Hadley. My name is Larry Muffett. I’m a member of Hadley’s Seminar team and I also work in Curricular Affairs at Hadley School. We’re doing something a little bit different today. Usually these seminars arise from the Hadley School, but we’re actually presenting live from the First Annual Woodworking for the Blind Summer Workshop in Deer Park, Illinois.
Today’s seminar topic is woodworking roundtable and what we’re going to do is we’re going to hear from Larry Martin, the founder of the Woodworking for the Blind Incorporated along with the workshop participants. We’re going to hear about how these people got involved with woodworking and why you
should consider woodworking as a hobby or recreational choice.
So now let me welcome Larry Martin and I’m going to turn the microphone over to him and then we’ll go around and introduce the participants who will introduce themselves and talk a little bit about how they got started with woodworking. So Larry if you could share with us a little bit about the origins of the organization, Woodworking for the Blind, Inc. and then a little bit about how this workshop came about.
Larry MartinThank you cousin Larry Muffett. Woodworking for the Blind has been around a little more than six years. It’s an organization that provides recordings of woodworking magazines for blind woodworkers. It’s a membership organization, but membership is free and we welcome anyone interested in woodworking.
Over the past six years, we’ve recorded in the range of 160 magazines totally over $500 of recorded material. These are current woodworking magazines. The articles are read and the photos and illustrations are described. During the course of doing the recordings, one of our members who’s here with us today, Max Robinson, set up of forum site. It’s a
Yahoo forum and this is a discussion group that exchanges woodworking information.
Shortly after that, another member established a website. Darrell Vickers who’s also here with us today. The website is www.ww4b.org. On that website, there’s a tremendous amount of woodworking information. Also, a lot of photos of the work of our members. And some of those photos really are quite spectacular projects. Just recently, photos of some wood churnings, bowls have been put on that really are quite outstanding. Earlier entries include lots of furniture, garden items and cabinets and other work that our members have done.
The first summer workshop is going on right now. We’re just about halfway through it. This idea came out of the Yahoo forum of trying to exchange information. How do woodworkers do woodworking? How do the blind do it? In trying to explain some of these things, the idea for the get together came up. The blind handyman I know have a reunion periodically and this may be a similar one.
We’re come here this week three days of sessions, six sessions morning and afternoon session. We yesterday spent time on finishing, sanding and sharpening. Today’s topic are four story wood using a
planer and jointer. This after will be jigs and accessories. Tomorrow is a full day with the Chicago Woodturners, two members there, the presidents of the Woodturners and a very skilled turner will be demonstrating spindle turning and faceplate turning. We will make a pen during that time for spindle turning and begin work on a small bowl.
So it’s an exciting time for us. The members are erupting presentations constantly with questions and it’s surprising to see how members do things differently. There are a couple different ways of doing it. Members correcting each other, here’s a safer way of doing it. Keeping your hands out of the way. Those are the key issues.
Larry MuffettI think it would be helpful if we had the various participants, we’ll go around the table and they can introduce themselves. State your name, where they’re from and I’d like to hear a couple sentences or a paragraph about how they got into woodworking, how they got started in woodworking, what the interest level is. So Dennis, I’m going to start with you and you can introduce yourself and give us some background.
Okay, I’m Dennis. I’m from Detroit, Michigan. I got into woodworking when I was working for the U.S. Department of Labor. I was sent up to the commissions for the blind for computer training in Michigan and while I was up there I had a couple free hours at the end of the day. They said, “What would you like to do?” I said, “I would like to take an Industrial Ed’s course.” So that’s where I got my start in terms of learning how to use a miter saw, table saw that kind of thing.
Larry MuffettExcellent. Next.
Max RobinsonI’m Max Robinson. I’m from Bowling Green, Kentucky. After I retired from Western Kentucky University, I decided to take up a new hobby, woodworking. I first got word of it from Phil Powers Blind Handyman Group. I soon carried it beyond handyman to actual woodworking building furniture. I guess the project I’m, well let’s see. Is it too soon to say?
Larry MuffettYeah, we’ll hold that one for a little bit later.
Max RobinsonAlright, let’s see. What have I forgotten to say?
JimHi, my name’s Jim. I’m from Saint Paul, Minnesota. I’ve been doing woodworking construction all my career, about 40 years. Right now, usually I would consider myself an advanced woodworker, but now I’m more towards an intermediate since there are different ways to measure and use tools when you’re blind.
Larry MuffettDale, number one.
DaleWow, sorry. Dale Alton, Denver, Colorado. I’ve been doing woodworking I guess for the last couple of years. I would consider myself to be quite the novice. I got into it just, I want to start creating my own things and show my friends and my family, hey look at this.
DaleMy name is Dale Levings. I’m from Canada, a foreign country. I guess I’m an advanced woodworker. I’ve been, I remember banging boards together as a kid very young child. I did a little bit of formal training, manual training at the school for the blind when I attended. I had low vision, very low vision as a youngster and was totally blind by the time I was about 20. What else, I guess that’s all I have to say.
Larry MuffettWell, thank you. Darryl?
DarrylHi, my name is Darryl Knickers. I’m from Washington, Missouri which is just west of St. Louis. I’ve been in the construction field and also did a lot of hobby woodworking. My eye sight has been progressively, I had a disease that goes progressive and for a long time I stopped doing the woodworking and things because everybody told me that it’s dangerous. Then I found woodworking for the blind website and started listening to recordings. Then the bug bit and I’ve gotten back into it. I might be at the beginning of the intermediate level now.
RussGood morning. My name is Russ Blumker. I’m from St. Louis, Missouri. I’ve been involved with woodworking for the blind for a little over a year. I’ve been doing woodworking per se for probably about three years. It really began when our kids grew up and my wife and I became un-nested. I realized I had some extra space and some extra time on my hands. My father had been a cabinet maker and a pretty experienced woodworker so I know I had some technical support that would available at hand So I just intentionally decided to take it up as a hobby and have been hooked from day one really.
Larry MuffettI’m just going to kind of throw this one up as a kind of a junk ball sort of a topic. But when I told people we were doing this today, pretty much everyone that I mentioned this topic to, the first thing out of their mouth was, “Is that safe?” So I want to throw it up to the group here and just say and just talk about the whole safety issue, tips and pointers to sway some people’s concerns that it is indeed safe. Who wants to jump on that one?
I’ll take the first one. I have 80 fingers at this table. One half of a finger has been damaged and the tip of another finger has been damaged. Both of those happened to sighted people. So the remaining fingers are entirely in touch and these are woodworkers who have a number of years experience, blind woodworkers with a number of years experience.
Larry MuffettWho else wants to address? Dennis?
DennisYeah, I actually think a blind worker, woodworker is no different than anybody else. If you get careless, you’re going to lose fingers. As for myself, I make sure there are no distractions. I make sure that I know where my hands are and where that piece is going before the particular tool gets started. I have a lot of respect for power tools and you just got to be smart and not stupid. They don’t give fingers back.
Larry MuffettAmen to that. Who else wants to? Dale?
DaleYeah, I was just going to say that blind people in woodworking like so many other endeavors, aren’t very different from sighted people. Some will be more
counted than others and some will be safer than others. I think to expect that no blind woodworker will ever cut off a finger is asking a level of performance way higher than we would expect from sighted people.
Larry MuffettAbsolutely correct. Tips for people. Russ?
RussI just wanted to add I guess a couple of basic rules that I set for myself and my wife helped set them as well. But when you buy, we made a rule that if I buy a tool, you get completely familiar with it and learn how to use it safely and then move on to the next tool. If you fill your garage with new equipment and go from here to there without necessarily being familiar with each tool, there’s more opportunity for error. I’ve also found that mistakes and potentially dangerous situations occur if you’re tired, if you’re angry or distracted and obviously you never want to be under the influence of alcohol when you’re out in the shop. It’s just basic common sense that applies to everyone whether sighted or blind.
Larry MuffettDo you find any special issues involved with that sort of getting over the initial hesitancy to use power
equipment? Was that a difficult issue to deal with at the beginning? Jim?
JimYes, I gave up woodworking maybe for four years or five years because I thought, well I couldn’t possibly safely use a table saw. That was incorrect. I definitely could and actually I can cut a little better and straighter than I did before. That’s because I pay more attention to the pressure, the fence and I know where my hands are and the board is flat. So I’m better.
Larry MuffettWow, interesting. Alright.
DarrylOne second.
Larry MuffettSure Darryl
DarrylI’m Darryl and I’m one of the people with the short finger that I did when I was still sighted. It took a lot and still does take a lot to run that table saw because that’s how I took the end of my finger off. But you
can’t let the fear paralyze you to not doing something. We all fight that as blind people anyway within other endeavors and it still makes me nervous, but I’m really proud of myself that I still do it because I had quit for quite awhile.Larry MuffettDennis?
DennisYou know, I was thinking about it and when I was working and I brought my table saw, people said to me, “Gosh, you’re going to have an accident.” My response to them was, “You drive a car.” “Yeah.” “You ever have an accident?” “Yeah.” “Well why didn’t you quite driving?” You know?
Larry MuffettIt’s a good point. Larry?
Larry MartinI tell lots of people about woodworking for the blind and of course you know the reaction I get from it. My response to them is that woodworking for blind people is fairly simple when you think of how it’s done. they use power tools rather than hand tools. Hand tools are the tougher ones and the more dangerous ones. Now take the table saw, you’re going to rip something. You got a rip fence. That’s a solid piece of
metal locked in place. You put the board’s edge against it. The blade is set for cutting. You need to push the board forward. You don’t use your hands. You have what are called push sticks or push locks that grab the board. You propel the push stick, but your hand is held way above the blade. You have feather boards for holding the board tight against the fence.
The same is true with the other equipment. There are means of positioning the board and there are guides for using the board to keep your hands out of the way. We had a contest last year in making small boxes. The members insisted, I’m sighted, the members insisted that I participate in the contest, but I had to wear blinders. I’ll tell you the first cut I made after saying things like this to everybody else, I was very nervous. But once the first cut was made, we saw that the intellectual statements really are true, then you can go on and do it.
Larry MuffettExcellent. What I like to get at now is I would imagine we’ve got some people out there who can, by the fact that they logged in today and they’re participating in this seminar is because they have some interest in the topic. So let’s say that I’m out there in the audience and I’m listening to this and I’m starting to
get the bug and starting to get the itch to do some woodworking. What kind of equipment would you recommend getting starting with, purchasing, what kind of investment does that take and what sort of projects would you recommend for somebody who’s starting off pretty new. Jim?
JimI would say the first thing is to join our group. Absolutely the most information we provide people like woodworkers anywhere. That’s the first tool.
Larry MuffettExcellent, excellent. I would agree. Max?
Max RobinsonI would say any hobby is going to cost a lot of money. It doesn’t matter whether it’s stamp collecting or woodworking or whatever. So figure on spending some money. If you have a certain amount of money to spend to start up a shop, spend two thirds to three fourths of it on a table saw because that’s your most important tool.
Larry MuffettWhat’s a good project for somebody to start? I know we all have different skill levels, but say that
somebody’s pretty much a pretty ranked beginner. What’s good project for them to get started on?
ParticipantI would say start with small things that don’t require a lot of equipment. The table saw is the centerpiece of any woodworking shops, sited or not and you can do a lot of things with it. Just be selective when you go to get one. Smaller projects that don’t require a lot of tools will find out whether you really want to do this or not before you invest in as much stuff as well can in this business.
Larry MuffettGood, Dennis?
DennisWell, another idea I have too is that many, well all your states have commissions for the blind. Some of have industrial arts programs and if you have an opportunity to get into something like that, you will then have exposure to table saws and using equipment and probably them finding out if this is what you want to do if it’s for you. A lot of the programs require their students to make a small simple project. When I was up at the commission, I didn’t because I indicated to them that I was there
because I really wanted to know how to use a lot of the tools safely and I only had a few weeks.
Rather than making the project, they were the ones that oriented me to a table saw and a miter saw and a drill press. That’s kind of what I have in my shop at this point and a lot of power hand tools like a circular saw, etc. But they also gave me an orientation as to how to set up things and how to use them safely. And of course hopefully this group in the future works out and I’m sure anybody else in this group could be of vast assistance.
Larry MuffettMax, you want to jump in?
Max RobinsonYeah, probably the easiest and most useful project you can make is a bookcase. It’s very simple, it just has two sides and shelves and a back. It’s very easy to make and of course it’s very useful.
I would suggest that if you have an interest in woodworking, you probably have a project in mind. So go for that.
Larry MuffettOkay, interesting concept. Anybody else want to jump in on that one? Russ?
RussI think there is so many pieces of furniture and items around our houses that really are boxes. Just a concept of having the four sides that are square and a bottom or a back and/or a front on it. The very first project that I made was a plywood box to put kindling and so on in. I think the second one was a small set of shelves. If you think about whether it’s those items or a nightstand or a set of drawers, there are so many things that really are just boxes in one fashion or another. So that’s a good beginner kind of skill to master because it will serve you well and if nothing else build some boxes that are just kind of open containers to put your woodworking supplies and equipment in.
Larry MuffettI’ve got a question from the text box here so I’m going to throw it out to the group. What kinds of specific
measuring tools do you use such as click rulers? Dale?
DaleThe standard measurement tools that are available to the blind and that are specially adapted are the click ruler which obviously somebody is familiar with. This is a device with an extendable rod that comes out and a little ball bearing that clicks at every 16th of an inch. The rotor ruler is a similar device which has a threaded rod that you spin a nut along and each revolution represents a 16th of an inch. The third fairly common item that a lot of people are using are talking tape measure. There’s one from (Inaudible 0:21:49) and I think one in that box a German company makes. Nobody seems to have that one. It seems to be a little harder to get.
The tool that I used for the longest time was simply a Braille ruler, standard carpenter rule that had been mapped I Braille. 24 inch folder ruler. It’s not expensive. I mean the print versions are about $6 bucks and the Braille ones are about $30 bucks. Right now I have a meter stick of the same sort. I like it just because it’s a little bit longer and center meter markings are a little bit closer together than the Braille markings.
Then people also tend to use things like story sticks which are just a piece of board that’s essentially the length of what you need. Very often the specific distance is less important than measuring a piece that is going to fit where it has to go. So whether it’s two feel long or 28 inches long isn’t really significant where they fit between these two points. So you can often do that with story sticks or telescoping pieces of wood and that sort of thing.
Larry MuffettAnybody else?
Larry MartinYeah, I think he’s got a valid point because you can always cut a piece off, but you can’t add it back on. The other thing I do is not only for measuring but for marking if I’m cutting a piece on my miter saw. I measure with my click ruler and then at the end of the click rule I will set a square down and then take a sharp object like a wood doll or a knife and kind of score down the square so that when I’m putting my stock up there on the miter saw and I’m going to slide the blade forward, I get in position to have the blade up against that mark and then I know I’m going to get a true cut. It’s no different from a sighted person using a pencil. You just make a mark you can feel.
DaleYes, I was going to mention, I forgot to mention there are a number of other devices known as setup blocks. They come in different configurations. Usually you’ll get a container that has one, two and there inch square block and then they’ll be a series of other blocks. Three quarter inch, quarter inch, eight inch which can be used then for finer stocks say cutting up little strips or anything up to those. You can use them in combinations to get to larger distances. They’re very precise and machines tend you use them. That’s when workers find them very helpful too. There are all angled blocks that you can purchase which are again, math metallic blocks and they’re various places around, but 90 degree angles all the up to about 30 degrees. You can use many combinations to get greater angles.
Larry MuffettJim?
JimI have some partial sight left so I also use magnification which I have a pair of safety glasses with an eye loop. Then I have to use my hands.
Sometimes I’ll use a tape measure that has the fractions spelled out so I don’t have to try to count each line, so that helps.
Larry MuffettAnybody else want to comment on this?
ParticipantI’d like to go back for a moment to projects. There are two websites that will be extremely useful; finewoodworking.com, all one word, finewoodworking.com. It has a section called getting started. These are projects for beginning woodworkers. Now it is a video series and so it might be a little bit difficult for some blind woodworkers, but generally you can find out about what they’re saying just from the audio. But they will describe projects and these are simple projects they will describe materials you need, the tools you’ll use and the procedure you’ll follow.
A second set would be from American Woodworker is a magazine – americanwoodworker.com and they have a series called I can do that. These are simple projects and the point of this series are materials that would be available at a hardware or home center. So you don’t need these specialized tools of woodworkers to do these projects. The kinds of things
that they have been benches, boxes, bookcases, and a number of others. They have some really quite clever ones. Very simple design, but very good looking design as well.
Larry MuffettAlright, I’m going to throw this up again and throw out another topic here. I like to go around the table, and Larry you can start us off with this if you like. I would like everyone to talk about the woodworking project that proudest of for whatever reason. It’s the first thing they did, it’s the best thing they did, it’s the biggest thing they ever did, they sold it, they kept it, they made a gift of it. The proudest woodworking project. Larry, why don’t you start us off?
Larry MartinMine is a small box. The box has dimensions are two inches wide, eight inches long, and maybe two and a half inches high. The top is an arc. The top runs from the table on one end up on a swooping arc down to the table again. I made that with laminations, joined them together with glue and veneered them on top with Australian lace wood. Then the toughest part of course then was making the sides to fit the top and for the top to fit under the bottom. Those also were made in Australian lace wood and I edged them with ebony.
RussProbably a project that sticks in my mind the most is a small desk that I made for my grandson a couple years ago. He at the time was four years old, so we’re talking about a child’s desk. It was the first time I’d built a piece of furniture like that. It has a drawer on one side and a cubby hole above it, then the knee whole where you would sit. That was the first time I really worked with wood to get a piece of furniture like that, that was finished and had a top on it, a little slide out stool to go with it, not a chair, just a stool. Keeping it simple, but that was the first time when I realized, you know yeah we can really put some things together and have some useful items and what I found after that was my kids have come to me more times, can you make this or that? I need a nightstand or I need this pantry to separate the kitchen to sit right at the end of the counter here.
Larry MuffettThere’s some heads nodding around the table.
RussYou’re family, once they get some confidence in you, there’s endless demand for your services.
DarrylI think the one I’m the most proud of and it’s also one of my very first projects. I made a rocking horse for my granddaughter who was two at the time. I went out looking for plans not understanding the plans when I ordered it. That’s one of the most complicated things you can buy and it required a lot of curve cuts that I had a friend cut the templates. Trace them on plywood and cut the templates out. I cut all my curved pieces with a route. It’s a little different because sighted people would do this with a hand saw. But it really turned out nice. It took almost a year. She was almost three when she got it. She still likes it and she shows everybody when they come in her house. So I’m so very proud of that one.
Larry MuffettExcellent, Dale?
DaleProbably the one I’m most proud of is the, I built an addition on my house. A two story addition, 15 by 50 feet with a couple bathrooms. It’s still not complete of course.
Larry MuffettCertainly not with woodworking. Definitely not.
DaleIt kind of moved in to it.
Larry MuffettThat’s why we call him advanced.
DaleI’ve done a number of projects like that. My work that is physiotherapist in private practice and I equipped a couple of offices with conference tables and cabinetry and that sort of thing. Counting of course the number of little projects but I think that that was the biggest one at least Like I said, it’s still not quite complete, but it’s really quite spectacular construction.
Larry MuffettI would agree. Dale?DaleI guess the one I’m most proud of is I built a little shelf with a lip on it to hold my (inaudible) on. It was one of the first projects I ever did and I’m very pleased with how well it came out. After out session yesterday on finishing, I did a really bad job of finishing it. But yeah, I’m very proud of it and really like it.
JimI don’t know if I can go after Dale either. When I starting losing my sight, then my focus was different. I just recently I made a set of recipe boxes for my four daughters. So everything I do is in sets of four or whatever. The interior wood and the finish. I really like the finish. My favorite now is just the feel of the wood. It’s smooth.
Larry MuffettMax?
MaxThe project that I’m going to be proudest of is my electronics wood bench. That’s my other hobby. But it’s still in work so I guess the one, the finished project I’m most proud of is a foot stool that I made for my wife, Sue. It has legs that are displayed out a little bit so I had to do angled cuts and angled, and so it is a simple looking project, but quite a lot of work went into it now I’m proud of it.
DennisI think the project I’m proudest of and it has a funny story to it too is we have a two car garage and I have so much stuff that we have an eight by ten shed put back in the garage just for my garden equipment. So decided we needed more room in the garage, so I decided I was going to build a shelf across the garage. Now the garage is 20 feet wide by four feet deep. So I decided I would construct this shelf, cut two by fours to sit on the floor so I could get it up to the height I want and make sure it was level. I just thought I was hot stuff. I got this thing all built. I said I want a garage that’s 20 by 20. That’s a two car garage.
So my wife came out and I said, “Do you want to help me put this thing in place?” She said, “Sure.” Well, I never measured the inside dimension of the garage. The inside dimension of the garage was 19 feet by 2 inches. So I said well and she said what are you going to do now? I said we’re going to take the end braces of this shelf and we’re going to cut 10 inches off on a miter saw. That shelf is still up there today and I’m telling you all, now I’m trying to figure out if I can design some type of front door of the garage so I can fill it with more junk.
Larry MartinAnd the thing I want to add to that, that’s the same kind of mistake a sighted person would have made assuming that the garage was 20 by 20.
ParticipantProbably so, but a lot of it is you.
Larry MuffettThat’s a vote of confidence. Is anyone at this table either taking this to another level where you’re actually doing this or not just fun, but doing it for fun and profit or is anyone contemplating taking it up a notch as they say? Go ahead Dennis.
DennisWell, I’m not thinking I’m doing it for profit, but what I am thinking is when I initially got into it, I was thinking I just want to do some stuff around the house, shelves what have you. Now I’m starting to think, you know, it would be fun to make a bench. It would be fun to try and make furniture. So I’m thinking of it from that perspective and I’m also thinking of it as making some little things for my family, a bench for my mother in-laws deck, that kind of thing.
DarrylI was going to say it would be more of a profit if our family paid us.
Larry MuffettYeah, that’s it. Hallelujah! Yeah Larry.
Larry MartinWell we do have two or three members I can think of offhand who do, do it for profit. One member is a turner and makes lovely bowls and one the blue ribbon for turning at the Oklahoma State Fair. He sells some of his bowls. A second member makes small items. Children’s toys and knick knack type items around the house and sell them in craft fairs. A third member is a cabinet maker who used to have a cabinet making business. That is closed down, but continued to make commercial cabinets for people.
Larry MuffettWe’ve got a question in the text box and I think this one is going to get a lot of people in their wheelhouse. Brian says I’m the founder and director of an animal rescue organization. For 16 years, I’ve recruited other people to build dog houses, but would love to build one myself. However, the designs I endorse are a little more complex than just the box with a giant door
taking most of the front end. We have some brutal winters here in North Michigan. Is there anyone who would be willing to guide me through the process? Jim?
JimJoin our group. The Yahoo group is an excellent place to toss that question up and get more responses than you might want.
Larry MuffettMax?
MaxTo join the Yahoo group, send a blank email to ww4, now that’s the number four and all letters are in lowercase [email protected].
Larry MuffettOkay, you might want to do that again real slow.
MaxOkay, send a black email to ww4b (and that’s the number four)[email protected].
MaxAnd we’ll, there’s no such thing as a stupid question. We’ll answer any question you ask and do it politely.
Larry MartinWhat we would need to know, what are the special requirements for the doghouse other than the four sides and the open door? Let us know what those are and someone will figure out a way of doing it.
Larry MuffettDennis?
DennisAnother thing I might suggest is if they have somebody sighted who is around and you want to know what something looked like, I have had my wife and my son for example, when we were having a family room put on our house and wanted to know what the roof line was going to look like, pitch, etc. I actually kind of had them take my son’s old building blocks so that I could get a mental picture of what would normally be visional. I find that helps a lot too if you can do that.
I think that leads us to Jim’s question. How do you access the plans for woodworking projects? I’m assuming he’s saying there’s a blueprint there. How do you translate that?
JimWell, I haven’t yet, but what I am going to do is I have a woodworking book and I have JAWS and I have a scanner and I also have a Braille (inaudible) with a program called Ducks berry. Now that won’t produce pictures. I don’t know how it’s going to work, I’m going to give it a shot. I’m going to scan the blueprint which will give you the dimensions. Now my wife doesn’t know that she is going to be drafted to help set up building blocks or what have you to give me an idea of what it’s going to look like. She said, “If you get the pieces cut and I have a picture, I’ll come out and align them and you can put them together.” The on the other hand, she said, “Well this is your hobby.” So I don’t know what to expect, but we will see.
Larry MuffettDarryl?
DarrylOh when I did the rocking horse, sometimes, if you’re going to work with blueprints or plans, let’s face it folks, we can’t see. So I got some outside help. My
girlfriend traced and just like anybody else would, traced the blueprints onto plywood and a friend of mine cut me out the templates. Then, naturally, someone has to read the specific directions because they would not scan. Sometimes you need outside help, but I find if I need it, there are people out there that will help me.
Larry MuffettMax?
MaxLarry Martin is a good source for descriptions of plans.
ParticipantBoy is he ever.
Larry MuffettThat’s another good reason to join this organization. Dale?
DaleYeah, I was going to say that Larry is one of the resources, but the main thing that’s worked for me, I’ve been very lucky that way, I have a daughter who is now a teacher of visual impairment, children with visual impairment and is the resource person for the
company school board. She has done that for a couple of projects. The one that I completed was the station that Norm Abrams has produced on one of his programs. I purchased the plans and the video tape and so on, but she actually translated the plans for example into verbal instructions which made that go a lot easier. I just typed it up on the computer. I have that available, I’m going to have to tidy it up a little. I’m not what the copy write restrictions are on all that. I would like to make that available to people, but obviously it’s a commercial product, so I’m not sure.
Larry MuffettLarry
Larry MartinI would encourage any woodworker to try to move beyond plans. Design it yourself. Plans can be very helpful for some of the problems you have to face. But generally, if you just simply think the project through on our own, you can work it out. It’s much simpler than trying to find a plan or following it.
Many people following a plan simply can’t understand the concept and that’s because the explanation was no good to begin with. I find those extremely hard to follow often. So I encourage you to think through a project on your own. If you’re a beginning
woodworker, they’re going to tend to be simpler projects and I think you can do that.
Larry MuffettOne caller has a question. She says I have a technical question and she’s already followed up with, and remember you guys said no stupid questions. I already joined another one of the Yahoo discussion groups and she says she regrets that she’s also interested in this one as well, but have not figured out how to get in. I need to open a new yahoo email account for the group, but cannot figure out how to get into yahoo mail. Any help? Max?
MaxShe doesn’t really need anything but her existing email account to join a yahoo group. You just send an email from your existing account to the group [email protected]. Some groups have some sort of initiation test to make sure that you’re serious about it. Most groups you just do that and you’re in. Now if you don’t have an existing email account, you would have to go somewhere and set one up, but you can use Gmail or yahoo mail. It doesn’t have to be a yahoo mail account, it could be anything.
Larry MartinYou’ll still have to verify your email address with Yahoo before you get in the group.MaxNo.
Larry MartinNo?
MaxYou just send a message from your email account and that’s enough.
Larry MartinOkay.
Larry MuffettAlright, what I want to do is I want everyone, I know there are some people out there again, I’m guessing there are some people out in the audience. They’re starting to get the extra little bit, but they’ll probably need to get that last shove off the fence. What I want to do is go around, and we’ll start with Russ. But I want everyone to go around and just some words for everybody on the people that are considering this as a hobby or a recreational activity. Give them some encouragement. Tell them why it would be a good choice. So less I’m going to start out with you.
RussWell, first of all, there is a tremendous amount of satisfaction in building something and going through the process of learning a new concept, experimenting with something and creating something. It’s very interesting to come home with a sheet of plywood or with some boards and after a period of time at a number of steps, having a coffee table to take in the living room and sit down and get some practical use out of it. When you touch that project every day or people ask where did that come from, that gives you a lot of satisfaction. You have to figure on mistake. You have to figure on wasted wood and there’s going to be frustrations along the way.
Some people may not enjoy it. They may experiment with it and decide it’s not for them and that’s fine. That’s why there are so many different hobbies in this world because different strokes for different folks.
Larry MuffettDarryl?
DarrylI would say like Russ said, you won’t know until you tried. You don’t have to spend, I just don’t recommend going out and spending money on it. You can do a
simple, really a delicate box with just hand jewels and they used to teach that to me when I was back in high school in wood shop and we didn’t use any power tools. Just try making something and see if you like it. Do the whole process from start to putting a nice finish on it and your skill level will pick up as you go along.
Larry MuffettDale?
DaleYeah, but I think what I like about it as a blind person is that it is a very tactile form of creation. You take a board or a series of boards, you construct, you get to handle this thing in three dimensions. I have kids who are very talented, very artistic graphic designers. That’s their creativity, my son paints and sculpts and draws and models clay. Some of those things I would be able to have a good time clay modeling this and people painting. Here is a creative outlet for me anyway that I can get my hands all over. I can climb all over this construction and make me feel a part of it. I don’t know that there’s a lot of other things that are that cap tile for blind people.
DaleI thought you just called on Dale. I just think the thought processes, the handling of the wood, the smells, that’s just what gets me going. That’s what gets me happy. That’s why I do it, you know the encouragement that I need to be able to push me that keeps me going with this.
Larry MuffettJim?
JimWell most of it has been said. I like the instant gratification of holding something by me and then giving it away.
Larry MuffettMax?
MaxWell in addition to everything that’s been said so far, for me it’s to get being able to make something that I can’t buy anywhere. You know if I want a bookcase that’s made in a certain way or my workbench or an entertainment center to hold your TV system or your stereo system, whatever. You can design it to fit exactly your needs and there is no way you would find
that in a store, but you can make it and be proud of it. It’s yours, it’s something you made, something you created and there’s not another one like it in the world.
Larry MuffettI like that. Dennis?DennisWell, yeah I like the satisfaction of creating something. What I will say is for those of you that decide to get into woodworking, don’t do like I did. Don’t beat yourself up because you made a mistake. Because you know what, I’ve looked at stuff that sighted people had made and guess what, they made mistakes too. You’ll learn from your mistakes and it’s fun and like I said, I like the fun of creating something. I like the smell of the wood. In fact, my wife will often say, “Why don’t you sweep out your side of the garage or vacuum out your side of the garage or workshop?” I said, “But then all that wonderful smell will go away.”
Larry MartinFor me, woodworking is the design creativity. I been an office worker all my life and when I retired I began with woodworking. It’s been design creativity and the ability the do the things with your hands. That has meant a great deal to me. Working with hard woods,
woods like cherry which are kind of a dull rose color when you get the wood. Walnut which is kind of a dull brown color and then you’ve cleaned it and you put some oil on it and boy, that deep red of oak cherry, that deep luminous brown of walnut, just wonderful feels and the feel with the oil on it is terrific. So making projects, simple projects – bookcases, tables. Tables are my favorite thing. When my daughters turn 40, they all get a table. When they turn 50, they get an heirloom.
Larry MuffettWe’ve got some questions in the question box here. Luke says he’s starting out and can only afford one piece of equipment, what would it be or what should it be?
MaxLunch money? Personally I would buy a sliding compound miter saw.
Larry MuffettYeah, that would be my favorite. Dennis?
DennisI would also say a click rule and (inaudible), but I would say a click rule and I would agree a miter saw.
MaxWell, the first real woodworking power tool I bought was not a table saw in spite of my own advice earlier. It was a router and I bought a combination router. That is it had a blemish based and a fix router base and that has proven to be very handy even as I have grown more advance. So it’s not a terribly expensive tool and you can do a great deal with it.
ParticipantMy standard device is the table saw and obviously if money’s a question, table saws can run up into the $7,000 or $8,000 range. But if money is limited, there’s nothing wrong with a good bench top, portable table saw and those prices would be about the middle hundred dollars. Our recordings have reviews of woodworking tools and you can get some good information there. To me the table saw is the beginning point.
Larry MuffettWhat about used tools? Are we okay with that, or no? Dennis, you want to start this one?
Can I just say I wouldn’t start with them just because first of all you don’t know. If you’re not experienced in evaluating and using these tools you can’t really assess their condition so you’re going to be depending on somebody else. You don’t really know what you’re requirements are either. But I was going to come back to this, but somebody’s getting into it the first time, I started out with a hand saw, a couple of chisels. I still own those two chisels – a half inch and a one inch chisel. It was a hand tool that my father in-law gave me. I outfitted a workshop in London and England with those tools. Me establishing a kitchen and a whole bunch of stuff.
Oh, and you probably also want a good miter box so that you can any square corners and that sort of stuff. That’s for the very beginner woodworker who’s not sure that they want to do this and that doesn’t have a lot of money. When it comes to the more sophisticated stuff, you have the table saws as the first thing and really I put off being a jointer for quite longer than I should have. Now we’re starting to talk big money and quite a lot of space and I don’t think that’s what you’re question is probably looking for.
Larry MuffettKen says he would like to know, he would like to have a list of any accessible tools that people find particular
useful. For example, he says he has a spirit level that emits a tone with the surface is level. Are there any such tools out there besides the ones that we’ve already talked about?
ParticipantClick rule and rotor rule. We already discussed those though.
MaxI would refer them to our website – www.ww4b.org. There’s a section called manual for blind woodworkers. Chapter one discusses measuring and all those types of devices are outlined there along with an appendix that tells you why you can buy them.
Larry MuffettExcellent.
ParticipantI also have a friend that’s not here, Dennis Walker probably has more tools than Bob does. But he has adapted, a lot of tools adapted that do talk to him. They’re not necessarily readily available, but you can find him if you hunt and things for him.
Larry MuffettDennis?
DennisYeah, the other thing starting out which I think I found to be handy, clamps. So you can hold things together when you were assembling them. Clamps are like a third hand. I think with the exception of like a click rule, there is very little equipment out there that you would say is specifically specialized for blind people as an accessible type of item. However, off the shelf
commercial tools will vary in how “blind friendly” they are. So, go to the store, look around, get hands on with something. See if it’s something that you believe you feel comfortable with that you can use safely and let that be a guide to you.
Larry MuffettLet’s open it up here and let’s see if there’s anyone in the audience that would like to ask a question. So I’m going to turn the microphone over for a second and if any would like to ask a question to the group, this would be an excellent opportunity for you to do so.
Audience MemberQuestion about cutting curves. Are we pretty much limited to straight lines because we’re using a table saw or asking a friend to cut the curves for us. I made a knife holder and I wanted it to have a little bit of a flare on the top and I just had to go with a 45 degree angle. Do I have any alternative there besides asking someone else to cut it for us?
Larry MuffettGo ahead, Dale.
DaleWell, I do a lot of, I get bored with straight lines. So you can find things around the house and literally
trace. I do a lot of template cutting with a router. I can’t go into detail on how you do that, but there are guides for the router. It will follow a patter and you can do a lot with that. You can also make a guide for a jigsaw puzzle for example to cut curve or you can simply do a lot shaping with a sander to get arcs and things that too deep. But there are, you know the router and that type of thing is very useful towards doing curves and so forth.
Larry MuffettI’m going to go to Dale here in a second, but really just also wanted to share, he says also with the band saw and the cardboard cutout.
DaleWell, I don’t like the band saw and the cardboard cutout much because you have to get it pretty close to you. But they do have guy guides for band saws that will follow and that kind of thing. What I wanted to say was I do have a fence which bends. It has several little clamping devices so that you can duplicate a curve or you can create a curve even an S curve and lock that in. Then clamp it down to the piece of work and follow that with the rotor if that helps.
Larry MuffettA simple way without, almost without tools for the kind of thing you talked about, you wanted instead of having the 45 angle, you wanted to have it rounded. Simple to use rasp and files to do it. Then with your hands, you’re going to feel whether you’ve got a relatively straight line and straight curve. I make for the family Noah’s Arcs. They’re about 12 inches long, 16 inches long, six to eight inches high and the bow of the boat rounds off to a point. All that was done with hand work with rasps. It’s a lot of material to take off, but you’d be surprised how rapidly it goes.
MaxThat’s very true.
Larry MuffettI’m going to open it up. We got time for, I think we got time for about one or two more questions. So I’m going to turn the microphone over. Anyone else out in the audience that would like to ask a question at this time?
Audience MemberWe would like to know did Noah have power tools?
A very long extension cord. He had the tool we know as an Armstrong tool.Larry MuffettYes, absolutely right.
DennisWell, you know it’s a good point because sometimes we do get hooked on power and power tools. They don’t always have to be power. Like Larry said, a rasp will do wonders in a short period of time.
Larry MuffettRuss?
RussThe funny thing about it is all of us guys that are in woodworking have those tools and a lot of times we’ll think of a power tool first and a rasp will do the same thing.
Larry MuffettOkay, we got time for one more question. You can get one more question in and then we’re going to start the wrap up procedure. Alright, we have nothing from the floor. We’re going to start wrapping this up. This has just been an incredible session. I really, really enjoyed it. I want to let everyone out there know that this seminar like all of our seminars will be archived on
our Hadley website and will be available for you to listen to and use anytime around the clock. Also, all Hadley seminars are also made available as Podcasts which you can download to your computer or your mobile device.
If today’s seminar has got you interested in hearing more about woodworking, please check out the seminar archives were we have some other seminars recorded and archived and Larry, you’ve done a couple for us, at least two in the past for us, but those are available for you. All of us here today want to thank you for our participation. Your questions were really outstanding and really added a lot to the value of this seminar.
I want to point out to you that Hadley really values your feedback. We take it very seriously and it becomes a matter for pretty much every seminar meeting that we have, so please let us know what you thought about today’s seminar. Also, what would be helpful is give us some suggestions for future topics. One way you can do this is by dropping us an email at [email protected] and another way is to share your information by completing a short on screen survey that I’m going to post up before we leave today.
I’m going to sort of turn the microphone over to the people at the table here and go around and see if there’s any last words of wisdom or anything that they want to share before we end today’s festivities.MaxDon’t just sit there, say something, we’re live.
ParticipantI just highly recommend joining this group or even in your community to see if you have options. In my community, we have an open wood shop or we started one, so one might be available in yours.
ParticipantAnd we also have a lot of very good information on our member directed website. It’s ww.4b.org where there’s a lot of information. It is a member’s only site, where the recordings are, where we need a membership just for copy write purposes. But there’s a lot of good information out there and it’s just by our members.
Larry MuffettLarry?
Larry MartinMy advice would be blind people, yes they can do woodworking. No doubt about it. We got 100 and
something members who do it. We have photos of wonderful projects that blind woodworkers have made. You can do it. The question is, learn about it, learn how to do it safely and take it one step at a time. Dennis?DennisI would say if this is something you really think you want to do, go for it. The sky is the limit and you can be as creative as you want to be. You can have it be as simple as you want to be your projects or as complex, but it’s something you can definitely do no matter what your degree of sight is or loss thereof. Alright, go for it.
Larry MuffettI want to thank all of you here at the table for being a part of this day. This has just been wonderful. It’s been very well thought out. You’re answers have been inspiring. A lot of good information shared with the people out in the audience. I want to personally thank each and every one of you. I want to especially thank Larry for making this available to us at Hadley so that we could do this seminar today.
I’m going to put the survey up on the screen here in a second. On your way out, we would certainly like for you to share your feedback with this. You’re going to want to make sure to set the focus to your browser
window once I do that by using the F6 key and one last comment from Dale before I do that.
DaleYeah, I was just going to say that many communities, many cities have gotten work working guilds. If you turn up to these places or contact and find them on the internet, very often you will find that there are sighted people out there who’d be willing to mentor and assist you in making that kind of contact. There’s another possible entry into the hobby of woodworking.
Larry MuffettYeah, that’s very true. Alright, thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you very much for your participation. Thanks everyone around the table. Thank you very much and good morning.
