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G ary Gomes is the current President ofthe Council of Vedic Astrology. He has been a practicing astrologer since 1990 &has been published in numerous magazines.He teaches Jyotisha through the AmericanCollege of Vedic Astrolgy, Kepler College,and Dirah Academy International. He hasspecial interest in some of the lesserexplored systems of Vedic astrology, such asJaimini and Chandra Kala Naditechniques. He can be contacted forreadings or lessons at crystalx@verizon.netor at www.crystalexpectations.net

Interview WithC.S.Patel

ByGary Gomes, USA

Courtesy: Council of Vedic Astrology,America

his interview of the Late C S Patelwas published in the CVA Journalin June 2007, 2 months before he

left his mortal coil at the age of 92. Assome special points have been highlightedin this interview conducted by GaryGomes which the Indian audiences wouldnever be able to see hence with thepermission of CVA this is published hereas it is. This interview has a specialmeaning to the student of Mr. Patel wholiaised between CVA & Patel Saheb. Thereason is although Shri Patel had beenfeatured many a times in many magazinesbut he was too keen to see this interview inprint form as if this was his last. Thestudent did receive a scanned copy of theinterview but he wanted to show the actualprinted version to Mr. Patel, somehowthings got delayed in post and it was toolate for Shri Patel to see this. Heincidentally asked his student several

times regarding the interview and thestudent was very curious as to why PatelSaheb is so anxious to see the print form,maybe student felt that as most of theworld thought that Mr. Patel is not alive soPatel Saheb wanted the world to know thathe is lonely and still alive. Its only after hewas suddenly no more the student realizedthe meaning of it & it pained him that hecould not fulfill his Gurus wishes, this stillhaunts him.

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Below is the interview by Gary Gomes, President of CVA.

C.S.Patel is well known figure in the field of Vedic Astrology. Now 92, he has been astudent of this science for most of his life and has authored several extremely well receivedbooks on this subject. His books are available from JDR Ventures and other distinguishedIndian and Astrological booksellers.

I felt Mr. Patel would be a great subject for the Council of Vedic Astrology Journal becauseof the high regard in which he is held, and also because of his wonderful knowledge of manyof the more unusual techniques in Jyotisha for instance you will see numerous referencesto the Deva Kerelam/Chandra Kala Nadi, an enormous text which has only been availablein an abridged and disorganized English translation, but which is an immensely importantsource of Jyotisha knowledge. He is also a link to a generation of older astrologers whosepractical and source material knowledge may be lost unless we take special steps to preserveit. Finally, he was also the featured speaker at one of the ACVA conferences, so CVAalready has very strong ties with him.

To facilitate the interview, I asked for the assistance of one of his students from Mumbaiwho referred the questions to Mr. Patel, acted as intermediary and added questions andcomments where appropriate. In many ways, this is as much his interview with Mr. Patel asit is mine, so I thought it only fair to credit him. My major contributions were in developingexpressions more understandable to an Englishspeaking audience, so the interview you areseeing does contain some repetitions, but I wanted to retain the flavor of thecommunication. I did edit out a few terms that I thought would be difficult to follow andrephrased some with my limited knowledge. As Brahmin priests do, I pray to Ganesha for

forgiveness of any mistakes I have made in editing. Interestingly enough, when the dustsettled, I found I had 27 questions and responses one for each of the nakshatras.

This is a relatively short interview. It was conducted through email with the assistance of Mr. Patels family and his student, to whom I am indebted. And of course, I offer my most sincere thanks andpranams to Shri Patel.

Journal : When did you first start studying Jyotish?Patel : I started studying Jyotish in August 1945 when I was 30.

Journal : Who were your main teachers?Patel: Before starting study I collected new and second hand books on astrology in Gujarati,English and partly in Marathi. I started studying them slowly. When I found some difficultterms e.g. Vargottama I tried to under stand by reading the same page again and again. Incourse of time I came in contact with Mr. C.A.S. Iyer (Co author of my bookAshatakvarga).I used to confirm or modify the meaning of difficult terms. He taught me toprepare astrological chart by Lankodaya Method.

In course of time I have purchased complete libraries of some old astrologer, who expired.

This resulted in getting some rare books, which were written and published before I wasborn. After publication of our book on Ashatkvarga in 1957 I started collecting manuscriptsin Sanskrit from various libraries of south India (GMOL Chennai, Oriental Library Baroda,Tanjour, Pune, Patan etc). To study Indian Astrology good hold over Sanskrit is must. Istudied Sanskrit from 4th standard to 11th standard and in my college studied for two years

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but Sanskrit of astrology is simple in contrast to Sanskrit literature. I prepared three diariesrelated to astrological Sanskrit (a) Sanskrit word and meaning (b) Prayay (Synonyms) word(c) Paribhashik (Terminology)This study helped me to interpret each and every word in my own way (It is to be noted)There are two well known ways to denote the number known as Katapayadi Sankhya andArnavadi Sankhya, if one knows the use of these two methods of north and south of numbering only then one can interpret the verses correctly.

[Students Comment: After watching Shri Patel for such a long time, I feel this has been hisstrength over other authors from south and north, Patel Saheb knows both the systemswhereas most of others know only Katapayadi system. Also I have personally observed PatelSaheb ponder over a shloka for days, just on One verse he would at times spend days anddays and finally he would get the hidden meaning, as if a Sage finally communicated to him.I have also observed during my travels that there is no doubt that even Sanskrit scholars allover India have the highest regard for Patel Sahebs translation. ]

Journal : How would you recommend a student to study Jyotisha?Patel: To learn Jyotish, a student must have an ardent desire to learn Jyotisha and not wastetime in reading other books & literature. All his spare time should be given to study thissubject. I advice them to study their horoscope when any incident occurred in their life andto find astrological means for that event in charts of whole family members.

Journal : What qualifications should astrologer posses?Patel: An astrologer should have good hold over Sanskrit. Astrological Sanskrit is quite easybut authors have made free use of Paryay and Paribhashik word.

Journal : What preparation would you suggest a student take, to learn Jyotisha?Patel: To learn Jyotish, a student must have an ardent desire to learn Jyotisha, Jyotisha Jyotisha. He should not take interest in any other subject except Jyotisha and whenever helearns something new he should make a note of such matters.

Journal : Do you think it is essential for a student to engage in spiritual practice to be an effectiveastrologer? What practice would you recommend?Patel: No it is not essential for a student to engage in spiritual practice. He must be pure atheart, having good character and no vices in him and have an obliging nature.[Students Comment: There is one thing that one can learn from Patel Saheb which is of highest value ever, he often says For correct predictions, never EVER LIE he alwaysrepeats this & today it is so much ingrained in me that even I say cow lies for businessnegotiations it hurts me a lot. I have followed this teaching of Patel Saheb and it WORKS tothe T & phenomenal predictions ensue. ]

Journal : What texts did you find most useful in your study of Jyotisha?Patel: Brihat Jatak, Parasar Horashastra, Phaldeepika, PrashnaMarga and many more but thefive books most important for Navamsa study are Devakeralam, Dhruv Nadi, Vidya

Madhaviyam, PrashnaMarg and Horasara.

Journal : You are well known for your study of financial astrology and you have done well financiallyas we understand. Does this financial success come from your study of jyotisha or other factors?Patel: I have made a little held way in financial astrology. Karaka planets (Jupiter for silver)

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is important. When Rahu and Jupiter are in trine or conjunction in transit the price of silverwill rise considerably and ; when Jupiter make trine or conjunction with Ketu the price of silver will fall (To evaluate shares and the stock market, its karaka Mercury is considered.)

Journal : How would you advise a student to study financial astrology?Patel: One should note the falls and rises of the commodities in market note those dates andtry to make research in finance as to the reason for these rises or falls (Very oftenretrogression date and direct date of planet of Kujadi indicates the turning point.)

Journal : How did R.G. Krishnan come to study with you?Patel: In November 1982 one astrological society in Gujarat honored me and R.G. Krishnanby conferring a title. Since then we are friends.

Journal : You are well known for finding interesting and important but over looked combinations inVedic books. How did you get interested in this?Patel: There are some important verses containing Paribhashik words, it is difficult totranslate such verses. I start to read these verses over and over again for days together afterthat I try to translate each couplet (Pada), after translating all four padas of verse I try tocome correct meaning of verse.

Journal : How do you know if a lesser known technique is working? Do you apply any tests?Patel: By Appling to practical examples if it is found giving some results, I accept it. (e.gBhrigu Bindu)

Journal : Are there any classical texts that you find more valuable or that you prefer over others?

Patel: Practically every Standard text is valuable.Journal : Are there any contemporary authors that you think should be studied carefully? Any one youwould recommend for an aspiring student?Patel: There are very few authors who have tried to translate Sanskrit standard texts intoEnglish such as V. Subramaniam Shastry. Nobody has done better work than him..

Journal : Do you do individual reading for people? Have you ever?Patel: No I have not given life reading for any one. Casually some one comes and asks twoor three questions and I have helped them.

Journal : Do you use remedial measure at all? Which do you recommend if any?Patel: No I dont recommend remedial measure but in an unmarried girls case I willrecommend fasting in a particular way on the day of the seventh houses lord. Similarly, if someone wants fifth house results I will recommend fasting on the day of the fifth lord.

Journal : How would you prefer to be remembered for your contribution to Jyotisha?Patel: I recommend students and astrologers to read my books more than once.[Students Comments: Actually he always told me to read it minimum thrice; he would

always repeat it thrice, thrice in his cute adorable manner. ]

Journal : Is there any recommended period of time a student should study before applying astrologicalknowledge?Patel: There is no period of time for study. It all depends upon how he studies the science.

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For my part any major event in my life, I tried to justify by the rules mentioned in mybooks. Still I am unsatisfied.

Journal : Any advice for a student to avoid the confusion of multiple schools of thought we see in Jyotisha?Patel: My advice is to study Standard books in Sanskrit and their translation and apply theserules in life in practice and study.

Journal : You are known to have deep study in nadi astrology can you tell us, which nadis you havestudied?

Patel: I have studied Devkeralam(Chandrakala Nadi), Dhruv Nadi By Jaymuni1 , Bhargav Nadi,

Bhrigu Nadi, Saptrishi nadi and others partially as mentioned in my articles published invarious Astrological magazines.[Students Comment: Patel Saheb is being humble here or his memory fails during themoment of this interview at this old age. In his possession I have seen many more nadis

which he has read like Guru Nadi, Ansh Nadi, Budha Nadi etc]

Journal : You are known for your immaculate translation of Sanskrit verses where many previousstalwarts went wrong, how do you get it right? Do you ponder over a shloka (verse) for days?Patel: Yes, I go on reading again and again till I am satisfied with the meaning. I tried totranslate each couplet (Pada) separately. Then I think the meaning of the verse.

Journal : At this age of 92 are you still active in Jyotisha and are you writing on any subject?Patel: Yes, I am writing a book on retrogression against heavy odds.(Death of my daughter, my ill health etc.)

Journal : For over 30 years many have asked you to translate FULLDevakeralam, would you still oblige your fans or least to least would you create errata for us knowing that you have corrected previousmistakes in the translation.

Patel: At this age of 92, it is impossible to translate FULL Devakeralam but I think to publish some pamphlets over sight of R.

Santhanam in translating to Devakeralam (Three Volumes)Journal : Can you expand on Devakeralam, how may shloka in total as compared to what ispresent in R. Santhanams translation, how many versions of Devakeralam are there?Patel: There are 9182 verses in Santhanams book on Devakeralam; it is only of the total

verses2 . Also, there are three versions of Devakeralam . There are some manuscript in GOML

library (Chennai), Adiyar Library (Chennai) and Mysore Library (Mysore).

1 This is not Jaimini but JayMuni, they are two different people.

2 Saptarishis Astrology : Unfortunately, this fact that the current English form of Devakeralam being JUST 1/4th none of the modern nor old scholars are aware of. Also, Patel had 3000 more shlokas of Devakeralam which many of us have seen. Infact, if you observe his writings you would see him oftenreferring to a different shloka compared to Santhanams version and sometimes shlokas which are notin Santhanams version. As my mentor says still we owe it to Santhanam, though every scholar in

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[Gary Gomes Comments: I am second to none in my admiration of the late R. Santhanam.However, the volumes of the Devakeralam he was responsible for translating are verydisorganized. When I presented the final edit of this interview to the student of Mr. Patel hehad the following comments: what can be added is that Patel Saheb is not criticizingSanthanam. Both of them were very good friends with great respect for each other. InFact..Patel Saheb gave Volume 1 of Devakeralam to Santhanam (who did not have it). Thisenabled him (Santhanam) to start the work, so Patels hand (is) in whatever we have of English translation of Devakeralam.We are obliged to both of them for whatever we have.After translating it, Santhanam gave it to Patel for corrections but by the time Patel couldget back (Patel was very busy then) it had already gone into print. Since then, the publisherhas kept on requesting errata from Shri Patel on the text.

Also, I have heard of other texts that are regarded as definitive in the West, but which areknown in India to be available to us in abbreviated forms. I hope to provide some moreinformation on this to the CVA readership in the future.]

Journal : Can you give us an example of Bhrigu Bindu & Rahu Ketu Kendra transit influence on it,this aspect seems to have not been written at all in your old articles on the same but we have heard thathad evolved further on Bhrigu Bindu.Patel: Read the articles 1(13), 2(31) in the book Prediction through Navamsa and NadiAstrology

[Student to Gary: Actually this method I wanted him to write here in detail, what we hadasked him is not in his book, he had taught me this method last year unfortunately those

notes were destroyed, anyways one day I will explore it from my memory and test it outcompletely over various charts and share with you. He has avoided this question I do notknow why, but I know cant stretch him at this old age. ]

Journal : When you are looking at only the basic Rasi chart, how do you at times Predict the SAVbindus of each house with near about accuracy? We have heard that somehow you can do this and we find this fascinating.Patel: Refer my book Ashatakvarga chapter14 verse no.11. if there more than two or threeplanets in a sign bindus in eleventh house from that house will be 33, 34 or more and at thesame time bindus in the seventh house will 201918 or less.

Journal : Please tell us the drawback of Ego when it comes to learning Jyotisha?Patel: When someone becomes egoistic, advancement in study of astrology ceases. There isno two doubts about this.

Journal : The current generations do not know much about the chronology of your written workPatel: My published books Ashtakvarga Published in 1957;Prediction through Navamsa andNadi AstrologyPublished in 1996; Navamsa in AstrologyPublished in 1997;Nadi AstrologyPublished in 1998; Arudha System of PredictionPublished in 2000. The book on Retrogression

Delhi criticizes Santhanam for erroneous translation (at some places) but only Santhanam who was anextremely hard worker could have done it and none of us who keep on criticizing him. Let us be gratefuland we need to give Santhanam the much deserved credit.

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is under preparation.

Journal : Again, my most heartfelt thanks to Mr. Patel for his time and for his lifes work.

Tribute to C. S. Patel By

Keven Barrett Courtesy: CVA & Gary Gomes, President, CVA

During my visit to India in July 1988, and staying with Dr.Parasmani. He asked what you want to learn. Who can

teach me the Ashtakavarga. He thought for a while andsaid that there is only one, C.S. Patel, but he probablywill not teach a foreigner, but would ask him to come tomeet me anyway. Well, a servant came and said he waswaiting in Parasmani's office. I walked in and Patel wassitting there with his arms tightly folded, and I thought

that's it. Anyhow, after introductions he sat immobile. Itook a look at his face and said, I have seen you before,

was it in Ahmadabad in 1981. It's you the Australian he said.

Those men running the conference would not allow me to speakto you. I even chased after your cab he said. He then stood up and said giveme a hug. It was a while before he let go of me. Come on off to your room, and for a week hetravelled to Bombay every day with intensivestudying and teaching. Finally, he said Barrett you have learnt in a week that others havetaken years to grasp. Patel gave me one of the last copies of his 'Ashtakavarga Book" firstedition. A very humbling experience. He will always be a great man, and will be sadlymissed, not only by his family, but astrologers everywhere.

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