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For a centuryhe Kurdish eople, nationdivided nder he Turkish,raqi, ranian nd SyrianStates avenothad he right

to exist.They'vebeendenied he rightof self-determination,o organise s they see it, o own heir and, o live heircul-

ture,even o speak heir anguage,while hey are crushedunder he weightof an extremely uthoritariannd backward-ed semi-feudairganisationor purposes f socialcontrol. Kneem?" .. "Whoarewe?" saysa popularKurdish ong; t is

not,easyo definen a couple f wordswhat he Kurdish eople re:theyar enot an ethnic roup, he ydo nol have eli-

giousunityand even heir anguage as dialectswhicharedifficulto understand ith oneanother. et, heyal l recognize

themselves s Kurdish. nd they havebeen ighting n manyof the abovementioned ountries icious ights n order o

have hatright o exist.As a result, heyhave beengassed,massacred nd displacedn the millions'

But the Kurdish truggle eepsgoingon no matterwhatwith an impressiveorce ed by everysinglecommunityn the

Kurdistan rea; his s a struggle ot onlyagainsthe colonialStates, ot onlyagainsthe mperialistorces hat oftenback

them,butas importanly, struggle gainsthe very eudalclassof wealthyKurdishandownershathave beenkey allies

of the colonial tatesandwho havemadehugeprofits ut of this situation.We arenot n rontof a merenationalistictrug-

gle n the narrow enseof the word;we are n frontof a social onflict, f a struggleor the complete mancipationf the

kurdish eoplerom hechains f colonialismndcapitalism,his s a struggleorhationaliberationn hecompleteense

of theword.

Duringhe celebrationf Newroz n lstanbul,he KurdishNe wYearand a resistanceay (21stof March), n mpressive

celebiation here300,000Kurdish ame ogethern spiteof the policeand military arassmento the people,we met a

number f anarchists,othTurkish nd Kurdish. heyhavean organisationalled hali,meaningPeople"n Turkish nd

theyhavebeenquiteactive n trying o bring he Kurdish uestiono the attention f the Turkishworkingclassorganisa-

tionsand o give heirsupport s libertariansn whateverway hey see it .

We had he chanceo exchange omeopinions n he Kurdish uestion ndanarchism couple f months go .Herewe

reproducehe m n the hope hat t will bring ome ighton the Kurdish uestion ndon the complex cenariohatanar-

chists ace n Turkey,where his struggle annot,andshouldnot, be ignored.

Jos6AntonioGuti6rrezD.

September24th,2009

lage of the Turkish state,

freedomo speakheKurdish

language, reedom o live

accordingo the Kurdish ul-

tureconstitutehe anchors f

th estruggle.

lnteruiew eprinted rom a-

infos

What are the core issues,

themain problems,on the

Kurdishstruggle oday?

The struggleof the Kurdish

people,who havebeen underthe pressure f the hegemonY

of four nationstates,such as

lran, raq,Syriaan dTurkey,s

gettingclearer oday.ActuallY

such anti-imperialisttruggles

are becoming in

importantn the New Order

GlobalCapitalism.araway rom hese lobal imilaritiesith

other repressed ations, he Kurdishstruggle epresents

"war n he making"n heMiddleEast or hundreds f years'

The historical haracter f Kurdishstruggles at the coreof

today's ebelmovement.

Kurdishpeoplehave been gnored, illed;stateshave orbid

them o speak heir anguage r to liveaccordingo theircul-

ture. So the freedomof living n their andswithout he tute-

Assimilation olicies gainst

the Kurdish people have

beencarried ince he early

years of the Turkishstate,and resistanceo thesepoli-

cies irstwasseen nAgri 1] ,Dersim t2 l and with the

rebels of Sheikh Said [3].This rebellious haracterof

Kurds meant the State

to more adicalmeth-

ods of assimilation.oday's truggle'sootsmustbe looked

for in the early imesof Turkishstateand maybe n the last

fewdecades f the OttomanEmpire.Resistanceo the hege-

mony processof the Turkishstatewas respondedo with

genocide,articularlyn Dersim, nd orced isplacement.

The Kurdish struggle has been largely a peasantstrug'

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1le.Tellus about the Kurdish and prohlem...

Since t was notpossibleor Turkish tate o take control ver

the andsof the Kurdsby usingdirect orce, n spiteof mas-'sivebombings,he state attacked

the economicacil i t ies ith he aim

of controll ing urdseconomically

and alsopolitically.heAgha sys-

tem, a particularly ackward ormof eudalism, assupported y he

state. Through his type of land

system, he stateplannedo attack

directlyhe agriculture hichwa s

and sti l l is crucial n Kurdistan's

economy.The Aghas were tribal

chiefswhom he government up-portedeconomically nd techno-

logically. hus hey becamequite

powerful oth n ermsof and-own-

ing,but also because f the tech-

nology upport,n ermsof agricul-turalproduction.urdish easants

were therefore orced irst to use

technology rom the Aghasto be

able o produce. ut n returnhe yhad o givehalfof heirpro-

duce o heAghas. his half-cropping"ystem id not ast orlongas soon he peasants egan o sell heir ands o theAghas and became ural abourers nder heir authority.Someothersmigrated ftersell ingheir ands.Besideshiseconomic role, Aghas also played a pol i t ical role.Governmentssed hem n order o getvotesof Kurdsand ointegrateKurds nto he system.This political haracterwasalso backedby some rel igious

aspects f the system.The Turkish

stateeven gave quotas n padia-

ment oAghas norder o represent

theKurdish eople[4].Under hese

circumstancesassimilation,eno-

cide, gnorance,orced and loss,

having anded epresentationnlyto Aghas, tc.-Kurdish eople aid"EdiBese" Enough- ndstartedo

resist as Kurdishpeople, n the

name f he ight o speak heir an-guage,n the nameof their ight o

liveaccordingo heir ulture,n he

nameof having ight o theirownland.

Today, he struggledoes not onlyresist hese conditionsmposedbyfeudal andlords,ut also he condi-

tions mposed y the neworderof GlobalCapitalism,r thenew acesof power ike neo-racism,exismetc.Questioningthe new aspectsof powerand oppression as made he

strugglemore asting.

As anarchists,what is your view on the Kurdish strugi-gle?

The Turkishstate named the struggleas the "Kurdish

Problem" nd also it is referred o as such in international

ooliticaliterature. e insist hat his not he issue. he real

issue s the "Turkish tateassimila-

tion problem". s anarchists hoquestion ll kindof power elations,

we cannot close our eyes to the

resistance f th e Kurds. Kurdishpeoplehavebeenconfrontedo the

real face of Statesince he birth of

the modernTurkish epublic. heir

struggle s nurtured y the rebel ra-

dition n hese ands.

As Ahali,we give mportanceo how

we can influence eople o bring

aboutan anarchistraditionn hese

lands.With this long{ermgoal in

mindwe try o actand plan.So, t is

logical or us to be in solidarity ith

comrades n th e Kurdi shstruggle

without ny hesitationn respect o

the national haracter f it.

Do you think the past elections (April), that many see asa victory for the DTE will have a positive role in any formto the Kurdish struggle?

Last ocalelections eemed o havehada positiveole o theKurdishstruggle.DTP, he party representinghe Kurdish

independence ovement, as won

one metropol i tran unicipal i ty,

cities nd50 province unicipalityn

the 2009 ocalelections. hemean-

ing of the resultsof the 2009 local

election was important.The elec-

t ions have happened amidstpolemic n whethero ban he DTP

and whether to stop the political

expressions f the independence

struggle.With the dlection esults,

th eKurds eactedo hese olemics.No tonly had he prospect f a ban

on the DTP,but also he polemics

aboutOcalan nd on the separatist

struggle had effects on these

results.By giving heir votes o apartywhichwas coming rom a tra-

it ion that the Turkish State has

always banned and blocked, heKurdsweresaying hat he "DTP epresents urdish eople

and herewe are".

In suchconditions,e did notquestionheproblem f repre-sentative democracyeven though we are against it.Moreover, e think t is importanto highlighthat he freemunicipalityctivitieshatare a formof participatoryolitics ta localevel,ogether ith he public arl iaments,omen nd

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youthcouncils nd similar rganismshows he democraticcharacter f DTPgoesbeyond raditional emocracy.

DTP municipalitieshat were won in the localelectionswereunderstoods greater ains han he Kur.dishepresentativessitting n the Turkish arliament.We can understandhis f wecompare he popularity f Osman Baydemir,he mayor ofDiyarbakir, ith that of AhmetTurk, he parliamentariannd

co-chairmanf DTP.

As we mentionedwe do notbelieve n representativeemoc-racyor bourgeois lections. utunder these part icular ondi -tions, that saw the DTP nearlybannedand in the face of theadvanceof new aspectsof theKurdish truggle,uchas giving

more mportanceo directpublicparticipation,e saw that sup-

port or he DTP n Kurdistan asexpressingopposition o theTurkish State, and this wasexpressedas the will of theKurdish eople.

We heard that there Kurdishwomen are quite oppressedby tradition and those

have certainly circulated and have beenpromoted by theTurkish state in order to expose the Kurdish people ashack warded honour killings,etc.)...How much of this strue? What's the position of the Kurdish liberation'move-ment on women?

Firstlywe have o consider hat Ocalan,wh o establishedKurdish truggle'sheorization,ook women iberationo thecore.Becausehe claimed hat womenwere the first socialclass hatwas takenunderauthority,hat'swhy society'sib-erationmuststartwithwomen iberation.s a resultof this,Kurdish truggle ives mportanceo the ndependentrgani-sationof women n the armed movementas well as in thesocialan d political rena.There'sa co-chairmanystem nthe DTP, here are local women councils,and there arewomen rganisationsoth n heguerrillasnd n he Kurdishcities;hi scouldbe seenas th e practical pplicationf thistheory.We also have o say that Kurdishwomenare amongthe most politicized omen n the world. You can see thisevery8th of March,when he numberof Kurdishwomenonstreets s 30 timesmore han others n theworld.

TheAghasystem egardswomenas if theywere nothingbutcommodities.he ycan be traded n exchange f moneyorlivestocks.Women re unableo makedecisions bout heir

own ivesandare solatedrom he social, conomic ndpolit-ical life. Beingsupportedby the State, he Aghas play animportantole n the isolation f women rom the economiclife.Accordingo them, womenare unnecessaryn workinglifeand unsuitableor working.Womenare expectedo stay

home n order o do housework nd o growchildren.

Thiskindof isolation ombinedwith eligiousactors eadmento claim o be heownerof women, hus beingnothing ut aproperty f menand seenonly as an object.Theybecameasymbolof honourand any violation f old customs ausewomen o be murderedn he nameof honour il l ing.

Thestatemayseemquitecritical bouthonour illings t first.However, s we mentionedbefore, he Aghas are strongly

supported nd actuallywere

createdby the State.Due othis act, t becomes bviousthathonour illings remain-ly causedby heState rgan-isation,n spite of its appar-ent "efforts"o stop hem.

What are the main difficul'

ties to build links betweenthe Turkish and theKurdish popular move-ments?

TheTurkisheftistmovement

is mostly focused on theworking lassmovement.owe can say hat heysee he

Kurdish truggle s a second-ary problemhatcan be left o be dealtwith after he revolu-tion.Theydon'tgiveenough mportancend do notexpressreallymuch solidarity ith the Kurdishpeople.Maybe hemost mportanteason or his ackof "interest"n the Kurdishquestion s the fact that some Turkish |eft"groupsstill seeMustafaKemal, he authoritarianounderof the TurkishRepublic, s an anti-imperialisteroand so they adopthisnationalistdeas. heysee himas a sortof a Che Guevarawhile heysee he Kurdish truggle s a "tool" f the USA odivideTurkishands n two and then "eat the two smallerpieces of pie." So the ini t ialanti- imperial istpproachbecomes nationalistne whichdoesnot hesitateo blamethe Kurds s heoneswhich ause roblemsndwh oare hepawns

f imperialist SA .

On the otherhand, he Turkish opularmovement, s it is"modernist",s divided rom he Kurdishmovement, hosetheory s getting loser o anarchism y ts relentlessriticismof State-centredocialism. specially ver he ast en years,the Kurdishmovement as urnedaway roma State-centredstruggleo a more horoughdea of social evolution. his ssometimes amedas "democraticonfederalism"r some-times democraticomunalism"tc.Bu twe can say his he -ory is getting icherwith he viewsof socialecology,nspiredby he eachingsf MurrayBookchin.

lVhat would you expect from the international libertarianand solidarity movement?

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fi, i:otii,

Elobalisation f power is making resistanceglobal today.

Having nformation bout the resistancerom all over the

worldgivesus hope and strength o cope with the struggle

against he system.We believe hat we can expandou r

resistance y this international olidaritynetwork.We, as

thosewh ooppose apitalism,acism, exism, tate's uthor-

ity etc.,needeachotherunder urrent ircumstances,he n

capitalismncreasinglyontrols he l ivesof the individuals

and he NationStateshavea morestrategic ole n thisneworderof global apitalism.

We believehatwe can earnmany hings romotherpeople's

experiences.irstly,t is really mportanto share ou rexpe-

rienceswith groups ike ours which has less experience.

These hared xperiencesouldassure s o solve heprob-

lems hatwe facewhilespreadingnarchismn ou r ands.

Anarchists as mostlybeenorganisedor short ermgoals,

with smallcampaigns arriedby littlegroupsuntil ecently.

Internationalolidaritys crucial o makeanarchism ain a

social haracter ith ong-term oals.We need o shareour

experiencesn the processof these ong-term rojects.We

Footnotes

[1 ]Scenariof a Kurdishebellionn 1927hatdeclaredheKurdishRepublicf Komara giriy6,hat astedrom1927o 1931,when twa scrushed y heTurkish rmy.

[2 ]Region f anotherebellionn 1937.

[3 ]Leader f a rebell ionhatextendedo the Diyarbakiregionn1925.

[4] The Aghasystemactuallyworksas a Statewithin he State.Theseribal hiefs adbeengiven bsolute owern heir illagesin ordero containhePKKarmed truggleespeciallyince 984).They havebeen armed o the teethby the State,with theirownparamilitaryangs alledhe"village uards", hoare esponsibleof countless trocitiesincludingmassacres,ofture,etc.)RelatedLink:http:i/ahali.irifo/phpiwp/

got he spiritof 1850'sbut we are actingsince2004.We are

expecting,or example, rom you who have a revolutionary

traditionn LatinAmerica,o shareyourexperiencesnd o

listen o ours.

From their webpage:http: I / ahali.info/php lwp ?cat= 15

"we are the oneshave a black future. we are anar-chists.with he refuse o be educatedwe believe n thedestruction f educations/ofs and that the universalinformations in the sfreefs.we hate heteachers est-

ing our knowledgewithhis/herauthority nd mposingexaminationsysfem. we are organising or a freeworld..."

We metwith he Mehaworkers n the resistanceentbuiltup oppositehe actory.. s oday or 48 days ac-tory s closedand the machineswere stolenby thebosses. s longas Dehaks xists,we are all KawaAhaliattendhe Newroz elebrates itha kurdish an-ner means As long as Dehaksexists,we are allKawa".

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