Befriending Fear With Mary Daniels [Episode 49] Wired For Success TV

7/28/2019 Befriending Fear With Mary Daniels [Episode 49] Wired For Success TV

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~ Wired for Success TV ~

Mastering the 7 Areas of Life

www.wiredforsuccess.tv

Presented by

Melanie Gabriel & Beryl Thomas

[Episode 49]

Befriending Fear with Mary Daniels

http://www.wiredforsuccess.tv/




Befriending Fear with Mary Daniels [Episode 49]

Beryl: Welcome to another episode of http://www.wiredforsuccess.tv. I amBeryl Thomas and with me is my co-host, Melanie Gabriel. Say hi, Mel.

Melanie: Hello everyone.

Beryl: So, we are always eager to bring you the latest and the greatest tohelp you throw away your props and live life on your own terms. Our guesttoday holds a powerful position as the co-director of Alternatives, a London-based none for profit organization that holds regular events to explore

world spirituality and personal growth.

Going by the name of the Life Chef, and we’ll find out more about that a bitlater, she’s also a business and life coach, a social entrepreneur, aninspirational speaker, and a workshop facilitator. She is also known for her very upbeat personality, her unfailing sense of humor, immense energy, notto mention powerful presence. She delights in the creative, the innovativeand the dynamic. And in the short time that we’ve been around her, weknow that she embodies all of those qualities. A keen writer, she has abook in process that covers the essence of her philosophy of life. It’s called9 Questions That Saved and Transformed My Life .

One of her very favorite quotes that say so much about her is, “Be yourself because everyone else is taken.” So today, she’s going to share with ussomething of her personal journey from a very challenging background tothe woman that she now is who can finally look in the mirror and be proudof herself and what she’s achieving. And we find out what Alternatives hasmeant to her over many years. And a bit of a behind the scenes peek of what she hopes to guide it towards in the future.

So we’re very pleased to welcome, Mary Daniels.

Mary: Hello.

Beryl: Hi, Mary. We’ve managed to pin you today because you are very,very busy woman. So let’s get straight into this Mary because there are so

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many topics we could cover with you. I think this is going to be the first of many chats with you. Now, tell us – fill us in now on what is this Life Chef thing all about? Tell us how you came by that name.

Mary: OK. Well, it’s no secret that I actually love my food. So, when I wassitting there, I thought how can I combine different passions? And at thetime, I was also sort of – I’ve been interested in [0:02:30] [Indiscernible]

of nutrition because my son had lots of allergies and going through asthma,eczema, and it really affects his life quite hugely.

And so, I wanted to combine the two. And then I think when I looked into ita lot more closely, I suddenly realized that cooking and food is such apowerful metaphors alike. And when we want to achieve something, youhave these glorious cookbooks with a stunning image next to them and

then the step-by-step recipes and how you mix it together and then addingin a little bit of your own to sort of to see your own taste buds a bit here, abit there and it just felt like a natural life process we go through.

So the Life Chef really came about how you could take elements of your own life and sort of create your own recipe for living. So looking at whatother people are doing that sort of suits your taste buds, have that image inyour head as to what you want to create. And then once you’re used todoing it over – practicing it a few times, start to mix it up a bit. And add in abit here and a bit there.

So for me, it just seemed really a logical process to sort of ask people tomay be become their own Life Chefs.

Beryl: That’s a great parallel to draw, isn’t it really? Because we tend not tothink of life perhaps as – that we are creating it. But we are creating it,aren’t we? You can tend to – people can tend to think that life just happensto them. But in a recipe, the same with the recipe, you can make decisions,you can try things out. And actually, life is much the same.

Mary: Completely. So I mean it is. And in that sense, I think for me, it’sbeen an incredible journey. I’ve been sort of building the Life Chef andworking on to that brand and then what it did to my heart for several yearsnow, I’ve been coaching for well over ten years. Actually, close to 15. Ished my age, closer to ten. No, I’m joking.






So I’ve gone on my own journey as every coach or anyone who’s working Ithink in the field that is connecting with other people and it’s that inspirationand that teaching. And you can’t not develop. You can’t not grow. And Ithink over this course, I’ve really started to reconnect with who I am andthis next stage of my life.

So whilst I adore the Life Chef and it’s still around, I’m now sitting andlooking at it and seeing whether it’s time for me to sort of evolve into thisnew space which is where my writing has started to come through a lotmore. Alternatives at the time, the time that that could not have been moreperfect as the universe normally, that things work out when they’resupposed to.

So a lot has started to change and this is my year of letting go of everything

and anything.

Beryl: Oh wow!

Mary: Yes.

Beryl: Wow!

Melanie: Do you want to share with us how things are changing and whatyou’re planning to let go of?

Mary: Yes. I think there are so many things that we can become attachedto and there are so many things. I think especially I’m in my 30s, not far off towards [0:05:39] [Indiscernible] so that piece of my life. I was in touchedwith my 30s but no, I can really see how so many different experienceshave enriched me. And even the positive ones, we can become attachedto.

Whilst they are great teacher and a great learning, I really want to step into

a space where all of my experiences now in literature and I’m letting go of any meaning and attached to anything and really open up. So for me, Imean I was what I would say, a very curvy, delicious woman in that sense.But I think letting go is also about looking at how I’m physically letting go,emotionally letting go, spiritually letting go in a holistic way because I wantto also get healthier and I love my food but I am sort of embarking on amore food journey. I was completely going, “Oh, it’s not in my DNA.”






Melanie: You’ll never know.

Mary: Yes. I think enough to I suppose really just supports my body to stepinto this new place. So it really is a mind, body, spirit journey for me.

Beryl: So talking about a journey for you, Mary, in a previous conversationwe had, you told us about where you come from and how you had beeninspired to let’s say, be more creative with your own life. Let’s say that. Youpick up the story from there if you would.

Mary: Yes. Wow! I think to this very moment, it’s an inspiration andsometimes I’m thinking how far back do I go? Wow! That’s actually a really

– it’s really hit me in my body how sort of deep that goes for me. I think as a

child, I came from a very I’d say, interesting background. I maybe wasspeaking about this earlier. I’ll try and find a way to describe it and eventhough I chose the word, challenging, part of my body is even saying, “I’mnot sure I connect with that still.” Because it’s been such a gift I think. It’sbeen such a gift and it’s hard to hold the word gift in one hand andchallenging in the other.

So I think that’s why I’m still coming to terms with how I connect to thedescription of it. But I was fostered from a very young age. I think when Iwas two or three weeks old. I was fostered as a baby into an Englishfamily, neat little farm, beautiful family. My mother was sort of adoptedDoolittle [0:08:26] [Indiscernible] all sorts of strays, donkeys, cats, shehad 18 cats, everything. So she had a really – sorry?

Melanie: So that created an identity challenge for you then?

Mary: Oh, it was really funny. And in those days, it’s just where they live inthe community, we were the only black children. So it was even just on asort of visual points, my brother was also fostered. She was this beautiful,

typical English rose mom walking down the street and she said, “I don’tknow what to do with your hair, Mary.” So I would be everywhere in hatsbecause I didn’t know how to manage up my hair. So it was just – it hasmany joyful memories for me.

And then I moved back to live with my parents maybe when I was six or seven. I’m not 100% sure of the age. And it was a sort of very different






environment. They were sort of an African family that just came over from Africa. They’ve gone through their own challenges. And I think even lookingback on it now, they were going through a lot of pain themselves and didn’tnecessarily know a lot of the sort of methods or the parenting skills thatmight have come maybe naturally for some other people.

So for me, it was quite – it was a very fear-based childhood. And quite sortof aggressive, very full on and there were times where I can say this now,this is strange for me to say because I’ve never actually said this out loudand on recording but there were times when my life was physically indanger being at home.

But I think and as my mother said this to me, gosh, not that long ago – andeven – she always said, “You were born happy, Mary. You were just one of

these children that’s just born happy and wise.” is what she used to say,“You were born like an old lady.” And I hope that was a compliment.

But now I think – and I can relate to that throughout my childhood. I still seemyself as a happy child in respect of what went on. But I had aphenomenal mentor who when I moved to my secondary school. So Imoved around schools a little bit. And in what to be my sixth move, I metone of the Math teachers there and he was into a lot of some Eastern andWestern philosophy. He believed in Hare Krishnas. I was – I had comefrom a really devout Christian background. I had been sent to a Catholicconvent school. Her family was sort of strict Methodist. Everything evolvedaround the church.

And I think he took a fascination with my really my strong beliefs, myChristian beliefs that for me, Jesus was my best friend, my guide, my – andI think in that space, this dialogue began and he gave me books written byKen Wilber. We were looking at sort of [0:11:24] [Indiscernible] . It was

just the most incredible journey to have at the age of 17.

And at that time, I was looking at starting my own business as well. I wentthrough a period where I don’t really have anywhere to live. So I would besort of sleeping in hospital waiting rooms or just trying to hang out wherever I could. A little bit of A&E but nobody moves you because they’re used of people being there for hours so you can actually go in late and leave whenI would go to the bathroom and get something to eat and no one questionsyou at all.






Beryl: Well, that’s a bit of useful life advice there from the Chef.

Mary: Yeah. I’m not suggesting that everyone on the streets starts tomigrate to A&E [0:12:06] [Indiscernible] . But now I think, as a youngperson, and it wasn’t that I couldn’t go home in the sense that they said tome, “You’re not allowed in.” It was because I was actually so scared to gohome. And I didn’t really have anywhere else to go. I had some friends.

And it came to a period where for a week or two so I wouldn’t really be ableto go home.

So I think for me, that whole – having that mentor, having that guide andeverybody in my life has been a spiritual guide, a spiritual teacher and I canreally recognized that even though it was sort of come in forms that have

challenged me as an individual, my parents, my foster, any shape or form.

So yes, so I left school with this incredible learning and decided to start abusiness.

Beryl: Which was?

Mary: Sorry?

Beryl:Sorry. I was just going to say to you, which was?

Mary: Oh, OK. So my first business originally, I had a taste of it whilst I wasdoing my sort of GCSE and A-level and that was working with youngchildren in the school who were struggling with their studies. And then Istarted to realize, they were struggling with their confidence. So for me,they went hand in hand. So if I worked on making them feel better aboutthemselves, I can see it was having an impact on the way that they wouldlearn and absorb the information because there was this inner confidence.

So I started – words sort of spread, and I started to work with quite a fewsort of children around the school. And then when I moved to university, Iknew that I wanted to travel and I still wanted to have a business and Iwanted to have a degree. I had come from a background where becausethere was such a lack of parenting in some shape or form, not completely.It was very strict in others. In other shapes or forms, it was quite free. Sothere were no boundaries for me. The idea of traveling and starting a






business and doing a degree did not seem odd. It was all physicallypossible which just seemed achievable.

Bear in mind that at that time, I had missed about quite a bit during my Alevels with my previous business. So I hadn’t gotten into a university of mychoice which is originally Cambridge. It was my father’s. It was likeCambridge or Oxford and that’s it. So I was in a youth hostel at about 200and odd pounds to my name, no host of residence, and still hadn’tcompleted what course I was going to be on. It was just this incrediblespace. I was living off popcorn because it doubled in size so I managed tohave more.

Beryl: Another good tip.

Mary: I was having popcorn and that was it. And yes, and I just somehowmade it happened. And I used to commute every week from Bristol toHolland overnight on the coach for a few days there and a few days here.

And it was – the business was sort of personal development aroundenvironmental products, teaching young people how to start their ownbusiness as well combined giving workshops, running courses.

Beryl: Wow!

Melanie:So you were doing that in Holland?

Mary: Yes.

Melanie: You were commuting to Holland to run these courses?

Mary: Yes.

Melanie: Why Holland?

Mary: Because I knew one person there that I thought I could combinetraveling. And I didn’t have any money so that all I can get though. I couldcrash in this person’s floor.

Melanie: OK.






Mary: And just stay with them for free. And then sort of come back andforth until I figured it’s hard. I’ve never been one of these people that worryabout the outcome. I’m very much, “This is what I want to do now.” And I

jump straight into it. And whilst I’m discovering whether I can swim thenand I’m like, “OK, Mary. What’s your plan really quickly?” But the decisionand action comes very quickly. Then the plan comes. So it might not be thebest of the best. It’s always been my natural order.

Melanie: But it worked.

Beryl: It worked. And this is fascinating listening to you, Mary, because Ifind it really difficult to do things that way around. I’d like to see things kindof set in stone which I’m learning not to wish for now. But are you sayingthat you don’t feel fear when you go into these situations? I’m not talking

about physical fear necessarily but fear of a failure for example? Sorry,Melanie. Fear of?

Melanie: No, I was trying to find a word that you might want and I saiddread.

Beryl: Yeah.

Mary: I absolutely felt fear of failure. No choice about it. And I have thoughtabout this quite a lot. And I think a lot of people would be quite surprisedbecause on one hand, I’d say it was very outgoing, voicetress, really go for it. But I am quite shy in a weird way. And everyone laughs but those whoreally know me well. No. I’m the person who would go to a dinner party andnot know anyone and it really requires inner courage for me to go up tosomebody and speak to them. Still to this day, I dread any form of networking events. I will come last and leave early. So I’m still working onthat.

But someone in the office who works with me at Alternatives, Vivian, bless

her, and she’s a really social butterfly. And I’ve learned enough from her.But no, I do experience fear. And so, my only honest answer about that andit might just be because I experienced it quite intensely at a young age. Imanaged to live in a situation that was quite fear-based and it had a lot of anxiety for me but at the same time, I was still able to live and laugh and tryand be myself as much as possible. And I’m not sure if I’ve just becomecomfortable with the two side by side that I have an expectation it will






always be there on some level. And sometimes, I will feel it and sometimes,I won’t notice it. But it doesn’t mean that I have not experienced it when I’mgoing to massive hurdles.

I think the thing with fear is I’ve learned a way to make it my friend. I thinkthat’s probably what it is. I’ve really befriended it. I’ve accepted that whenI’m about to take a huge leap, if I feel it, that means I’m stretching andgrowing. So it’s there as a loving guide and a friend. And it’s not an enemy.

Failure is not an enemy at all. Failure can only exist if you believe that thereis a right or wrong. I don’t believe that there is a right or wrong so therefore,I can’t connect to failing. I can connect to experiences. So then maybesome experiences I ever had that have had a very different outcome to theone I perceived or thought or even hoped I would have but that’s only a

different outcome to the one I expected. Not a different outcome to the oneI needed.

So it’s really getting clear on a difference. And I think if you have areflection of process that allows you to reflect on what you’re doing andwhere you’re going, you will always see every kind of sort of experience asone that’s beneficial.

Melanie: So there’s a thought going through my mind here, Mary, becauseyou described your background especially with your biological family andusually, one would expect one to be somewhat fearful if not defeated bythat kind of environment. I’m wondering because you do refer to thisbackground as being a gift and I agree with you, it can be, I’m wonderingwhat it is about this background, what is the gift there that equipped you tobe able to treat fear as a friend?

Mary: That’s a good question. I think I have the most incredible relationshipwith my family at the moment. And one thing I would like to say and this iswhy I talked about my background as an interesting space for me because

at the moment, I mean my father passed away a few years ago and mymother and I, we were quite estranged for a while. And I did say to her recently, “Look mom, I’m writing a book and it does involve some thingsthat happened when I was a child.”

And for years, she was very traditional. And I think as I’ve matured, I’vereally come to understand my mom. And in fact, this leads so well into the






book because I’ve journaled a lot as a child. I mean I have these multitudesof journals under my bed and it came all sorts. And part of writing this bookis also letting go of my attachment to my journals and my attachment towhatever the comfort that they gave me. And I noticed a pattern in thethings that I would journal about. So I would first of all always look up whathave I been learning from this, what can I learn from this. I have no ideahow that came about but I just felt that getting some learning from whatwas happening to me had to be key.

And I think my Christian faith being so strong at the time was very much –when I say that my relationship with Jesus was a very key part of my life,now, I see myself as spiritual. But then I really saw myself as a strongdevout Christian. That for me was a dialogue. I saw that relationship as Iwould read these extracts and really learn about the teachings of

Christianity and forgiveness, all sorts of things, it opened up a dialogue for me internally.

And so, I used to ask myself nine questions without them having anystructure. And one of them was – apart from what have I learned, the other one came about from what do I need to just accept. And I think comingfrom that space of acceptance finally and it took me a long time I think toreally understand what it meant to accept. As a child, it was very muchwhat – I can’t change this so how can I just make the most of it?

Then as I matured, I realized that that was acceptance. And connectingwith my mother now, very much I think a lot of us in our family felt a bitdisappointed and let down at key stages of our childhood. And I’ve had justthe most beautiful privilege to have enough time to reconnect with mymother and I understand her and see her for the – she’s an incrediblewoman. She is a true inspiration. I never would have said that about 15years ago at all. Not that she was a bad person but she was in so muchpain. I don’t think she could see past that pain to mother us. And we grewup in an environment where all of our friends were experiencing what we

saw as this ideal English – the children were loved and pampered and Iwas coming home to chores and being sort of shouted at and talked downto and sometimes, quite a few things past that point.

And so for me, I think to be able to go into a space and truly see my mother and accept she’s not going to be one of these moms that I’ve been wishingher to be for years. She is who she is and actually, she is my mom and I






need to get to know this incredible woman. And we won’t always agree. Wewould probably never see eye to eye but at least if we can accept eachother or even if I could just accept her. It doesn’t even need to come backthe other way.

And in that moment I think, when I decided to step into that space, that’swhen the most incredible things happened in our relationship. That’s when Istart trying to defend myself and justify things and question her and I thinkthat’s when she stopped feeling this attack from us as if she’d failed.

Sorry, Mel. I’m not sure if that answered your question.

Melanie: No, that’s fine. That’s fine because it’s sort of opened up into amuch bigger area where I suspect whereas it would have been easy to take

the fear that you felt in that situation forward in life, you’ve been questioningof yourself, you’ve been looking at the best way to make the best of it whichI have to say well done because you remind me of my childhood where itwasn’t the most comfortable experience. And I couldn’t change it. But whatI did was I bided my time. But you did something clever. You askedquestions about what were you learning. I wished I had thought of thatthen. So clearly, this would have filtered its way through just the way youhandle life.

Mary:I think so. And actually, just coming back because I know you asked

me about the fear, coming back to the thing with that fear and how wehandle life and what we do, I think the fear was also a part of myacceptance, is that there will be times that I experience fear. There will betimes that I experience challenges where I may not know the answer for along time where I may feel really lost. I may feel quite disconnected.

And I think having gone through such a myriad of experiences and tons of experiences at such a young age, it came to a point where life seemedeasy. It was almost as if what else can go wrong? Life seems – when

you’re in a situation where – there was one particular situation when I wasyounger where I physically thought this may be the day I die. Really, it wasa reality. Things were happening. And I don’t know. It just puts intoperspective what is important. And in that moment, so much justdisappeared where I thought – I don’t know. I think there’s only so far fear can ever push you. There’s only so far fear can ever push you. You do therest. It’s what you allow fear to become.






There’s only so far you can build fear up to. And I just think if you reallystepped into space, step into the heart of it and see what it’s trying to teachyou. You will realize that it’s probably one of the greatest friends you willever have.

Melanie: I mean this is such a wonderful bit of advice that you’re giving tothe public here.

Beryl: Melanie, stop, stop, stop. There’s a bit of echo going on there.

Melanie: OK. I don’t know what changed.

Beryl: Keep talking for a bit. Let’s see if it’s gone.

Melanie: So is that improving?

Beryl: Yes, OK.

Melanie: Yeah. OK.

Beryl: So go back to when you started speaking.

Melanie:I’ll just pause.

Beryl: Thank you.

Melanie: Yeah. So this is a really great piece of advice you are giving tothe public actually because what you did was you sat with the fear, sawwhat it was teaching you. And bringing this up has been so importantbecause it’s important in terms of what we’re communicating to peoplewhen we talk about being wired for success because I’m comparing mysituation which was not as useful as yours in that the intense experiences

were so awful that I actually switched myself off so I couldn’t feel fear.

But I then paid for it as an adult because I had to go through so much todare to revisit that fear and then let it go. But with you, it got to the pointwhere you decided, “OK. Let’s see what we can make of it.” And I think alot of people, a lot of people do switch off so they can’t feel the fear, not atthat level of intensity and then it creates all the problems.






Mary: It does. And I don’t feel that there’s one experience that’s any less –I mean more or less than the other because I feel that your experience,Mel, is totally valid as well. And I suppose, this is why I’ve struggled withlooking at ways to integrate my childhood and my journey to this point intomy learnings of today is because sometimes when people hear somestories, they immediately look at, “My goodness, if I were in that situation,how would I cope?” and based on that, they might then not greedy becausethat sounds awful but think, “I would have done this or I would have donethat.”

And actually, until we are – until I am you and you are me, we never knowhow each other …

Melanie: It’s absolutely true, yeah.

Mary: And actually, both responses are equally powerful because I think toa degree, there are ways where I did switch off but it might be not in theobvious way that you connected with what switch off means to you. So I’velooked at the challenges that I’ve had with my weight and I’ve looked at thatand I thought, “Yes, I can say I love my food and I love this.” But maybethat was a form of me also coping with the excess. It’s that I wasn’t yetequipped to deal with.

Melanie: Yeah.

Mary: Now, I’m in this year of really letting go sort of physically andmentally and emotionally. That also includes my weight, my excess weightthat – and what that represents and potentially what that’s been protectingme from in a way that I hadn’t connected with at that time. So I think everyexperience is unique to a person and someone who’s been in the mostloving family and I say lovin’ in abbreviations can be living a more traumaticlife than somebody who appears to have come from a traumatic

background.

I think it’s how we connect to our experiences and how we connect to our definition of fear and trauma and challenge. And I just think that I’ve insome shape or form connected to it in a different way that may have justbeen what saved me. I don’t know.






Melanie: You’re absolutely right. So …

Beryl: Well …

Melanie: Carry on.

Beryl: It’s interesting listening to you because it’s very easy to make judgments, isn’t it? And look at you and think, “Oh, what a terrible time youhad.” But actually, you’ve turned it all into a gift. And I often say to my sons,be grateful that you weren’t born with a silver spoon in your mouth becauseit allows you, as you have done clearly, to carve your own path. Nobodyhas held you back, one could argue, because you had to do this yourself.

And I think when you – I know some young people for example, that theydon’t have to work, OK? Financially, they don’t have to work.

And I look at them without judgment but I do think, “What a shame becauseI can see in you some really special things that you could take out andshare with the world. But because you’re not motivated because you don’tneed money, you don’t need to make your own money, that gift that youhave will never be shared with the world.”

Mary: And I hear you. I mean I’ve done a lot of work with young peoplefrom – going into secondary schools and mentoring and coaching there,going into prisons, just a wide range of environments from very young ageis when you see some 11, 12 year olds who are addicted in some shape or form to drugs. I mean it’s incredible, some of the things that are going on.

And being a parent myself, you have sort of at a very young age, I met mypartner and he had sort of three boys and we had a son together. So it wassort of four boys that are just all over the place. And now, I look at myyoungest son and he had this incredible lifestyle. And I think sometimes,you overcompensate sometimes. You want to almost give them the thingsthat you felt were missing from your own childhood.

And has it served him or not? I’ve given up that question and I have to behonest with you because I just think, he will be who he will be. He isdefinitely taken some – I suppose, I have been told from my friends. But of course, he can be quite direct a lot. There are times when I walk away andI have nothing to say. I’m totally lost for words. He sees the world verymuch black and white.






There are so many things about him that he would mention and I get it. Andhe knows I get it and I know – I would be able to ask it that to him, “Oh, canyou go and pick something up or how many times have I told you, you needto do this?” It’s that, “Mom, but I don’t want to.” And I said, “But I’m askingyou to as your mom.” And he said, “But just because you gave birth to memom, doesn’t mean because I’m …” And then he’d stopped and says,“Remember, you said I can speak my mind as long as [0:33:36] [Indiscernible] .” So I said, “Yup, you got me.”

Melanie: Oh dear.

Mary: It’s great to be parents. You say, “Because I’m you parent, you needto do it.” He said, “That doesn’t make them more intelligent or not equal

than me. It just makes them older.” So …

Beryl: Now, isn’t it interesting, we’re in a different age, aren’t we? Iwouldn’t have spoken back like this. I wouldn’t have spoken back at school.But we’re in a different age now, aren’t we? And I’d like to kind of bring youin to talk a little bit about Alternatives, Mary, here because things arechanging massively in this world. We have the most amazing opportunity infront of us to create something new. And the way I see you at Alternativesand all of Alternatives, all the people that are involved in it, you’re forgingaway, you’re flying a flag and saying, “Come on. Change is happening.Let’s be part of it in some way.”

What do you – tell us about your journey there.

Mary: Absolutely. I mean Alternatives to me has been just an iconic part.It’s just – in term of my own transformation, it’s been key. And I sort of came to Alternatives for years just as a plain guest and it was a sanctuary.Just walking into St. James Church, being able to breath, being in thisspace where you don’t – you just didn’t feel any form of judgment at all and

I genuinely mean that. You could turn up however you wanted to. Nobodywas there to judge you.

And it was space to connect with people’s journeys for inspiration, for guidance, for spirituality. And spirituality can have a bit of a bad name.People think it’s a bit fluffy. It’s a bit hippie. It’s a bit this. But there was apower behind spirituality. And I’m not talking about the commercial






spirituality. Spirituality for me is just simply represents a way of being. See,I have come from a world of personal development. And personaldevelopment for me was very much a way of thinking. It was very cerebral.It was sort of tools, techniques.

But as I moved on this journey, I thought spirituality for me is more about away of being. How I’m showing up in every moment, coming out of myhead and into my heart and really being fully present to my life andeverything around me. So Alternatives is providing this amazing platformfor you to connect with who are you being and what does that mean for you?

So having moved from being in the audience to – I was – and I won’t lie.There were lots of volunteers I never thought I had any time. But like

everything, the second you say yes, if it’s the right thing, the universe willtranspire to make it happen. Then I was sort of asked to become workshopcoordinator not knowing they were sort of assessing me out as a potentialdirector. I love the guys, I really do and Ester as well, one of the pastdirectors, phenomenal woman.

And now, I’m sort of here, co-directing with Richard, phenomenal team, sortof Vivian and Susanna in the office. I feel really that this is a personalcalling. I feel that we are an organization that is really looking at ways toraise consciousness and there are so many people like yourselves, other organizations that are looking at ways to raise consciousness, looking atways to just inspire and get the message out there. But we can only do thatif we know what that means for ourselves. Everything I think startsinternally and it’s how ripples out.

So for me coming into this phase, it wasn’t just where you go with theorganization, what are you going to do. The questions I was asking myself is where am I going, who am I going to be, what do I need to become toraise my own consciousness? And on that internal journey, it will indirectly

affect the platform we provide for other people on a similar journey becausesuddenly, when you’re connected to that space, you are seeing andexperiencing them being very different things to just we’re holding events,we’re bringing people over where no, it’s more way more than that, waymore than that.






And I think that’s what I’m hoping to bring to the organization is all aboutcollective inner journeys that we were experiencing within the organizationand then connecting it with our audience, members, and this new younger generation that are so much more aware. They are enlightened in a truestsense. And I think the real shift is not us worrying about how to parent themand how to manage them, it’s about how we accept them and not enforceour own rules on them and let them be.

And that’s a massive shift for what I call this generation that is where thesort of what enlightenment means. But have come through a bit of the oldschooling of you have to be old and wise and got all these experiencesbefore you become enlightened. No, we’re born enlightened. Our journey isto come back to that place that we were born into. It’s not to sort of go intoa path to find it. We are born in it, it never goes anywhere. Life removes us

from it. And our journey is to reconnect. That’s all it is.

And I see these young people so connected in the moment raw and I see away where Alternatives can open that now and engage with people of allages, all backgrounds everywhere in the world and hold a space wherever they’re at on their journey.

Beryl: It’s interesting you say that because – oh, is that echoing for people?

Melanie: Yeah, we can hear the echo.

Beryl: Is that any better?

Melanie: Keep talking. This is what happened with me. Yes, it’s improvednow.

Beryl: Let’s just pause. So recently, I came to Alternatives to see TimFerriss, Mary.

Mary: Oh yes.

Beryl: I brought my sons who are in their early 20s.

Mary: Fantastic.






Beryl: Yeah. And they were enthralled. And my eldest one said, “That wasreally interesting.” Because they’d seen the Alternatives magazine that youdo, your brochure.

Mary: Yes.

Beryl: And he said, “I would never have gone there but for the Tim Ferrissevent.” And he said, “But I am open now to going to more events.”

Mary: Oh fantastic.

Beryl: And it was interesting because there were a lot of young men at thatevent, weren’t there?

Mary: Yeah.

Beryl: And I think a lot of them were new there. So you’re opening thedoors to embrace – because they’ve got so much to teach us. You’reabsolutely right. These young people, they don’t have the fears and theanxieties and they see life very, very differently and I’m sure that’s largelyto do with the internet and the information that the access to knowledgethat we have.

But still, the work that you’re doing there I think is embracing these younger groups especially in London. It seems like younger group of people whoare much more questioning than we were, well perhaps, certainly from agegroup, and they are looking. They feel this need for there is somethingmore. There is something – they’re hungry. It’s like you’re nourishing their soul.

Mary: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think it’s – and it is. Everything aboutlearning is that learning never happens in one direction at all. It never happens. It is a holistic process. And we are – part of our aim is to provide

a platform that appeals to all and to also redefine what people connected –what spirituality means for people.

The great thing about Alternatives is here, you have this incredible church,[0:41:07] [Indiscernible] church that is so steep in tradition and justeverything that goes with that. And then you have this really sort of spiritualwacky out there group inviting all sorts. And to have the two coexist in itself






I think is a miracle and blessing because for some people, that’s the firsttime they’ve ever walked into a church and being comfortable in that space.Church has so many heavy connotations for me. To see someone on analtar talking about releasing your energy and how to have a 4-hour workweek or tantric, whatever it is, to have that within a church space isvery unique.

And I thank sort of Donald Reeves who was a really inspired and visionaryrector at the time who saw this as a project and with the Malcolm’s journey,they basically put it together. From 2000, it’s now become an independentnot for profit. So whilst we are independent in that sense, we’re still in thisgreat space. And I think we’re trying to really look at ways where spiritualityis mainstream and it’s not even about – everything is spiritual, everything.There is no separation.

And under that guise of everything being spiritual, I’m now going to inviteanything that’s inspirational, anything that allows people to connect tothemselves in any shape or form of a quality that we feel will allow peopleto have some of their questions answered. So that is our aim really.

Beryl: Well, we are blessed to have Alternatives in London. We’reabsolutely blessed, Mary. We are blessed that you have stepped into thisrole to help to shape Alternatives going forward. And you have fantasticmessage there.

Mary: Thank you.

Beryl: Is there anything that we’ve not asked you about Alternatives or anything that you would like to share?

Melanie: Or anything about your book.

Beryl: Yes, about your book. We haven’t talked about your book. Yes, your

forthcoming book.

Melanie: Because that must have been a [0:43:10] [Indiscernible] between what you’re doing at Alternatives and the book.

Mary: Yeah. I think a lot of it is – I mean for me, I suppose – and thank youfor that. I don’t really see a separation. So it’s hard for me to almost






categorize where I’m at in my life because everything is just this fullmoment. And the one thing I would say specifically with Alternatives is I’mreally excited about the way we’re now engaging with our audience. Not

just the ones that physically come and sit in the church in London but justall around the world.

So I would say to anyone who has been inspired, for anyone that’s goingon a journey, for anyone that wants to either recommend, come andengage, come and connect with us. We are a very much – and this issomething I’m really passionate about, we are an open space. This isn’towned by anyone. There is no ownership of this space. Alternatives ismerely one vehicle of many and we’re holding hands and joining dots butthis is shared space. It’s a collective. So I really encourage people to comein and to share with us in any way they feel inspired to do so.

And I think the book for me is really a journaling of my experiences, mylearnings, the things that have helped me become more of who I am. I tryand use language that people can understand but I think even more than

just saying a journey, I think for me it’s just a reconnection because a journey almost sense that I am going somewhere whereas I think where Iam at the moment is, it’s more of reconnecting to just being here. So, sortof letting go.

Melanie:I was going to say, letting go starts you seeing that you’re

connected.

Mary: See, letting go of everything for me is just – because we don’t ownanything, the idea of letting go allows you then to just be left with what is.So if there’s nothing cluttering you, there’s nothing in the way physically,mentally, emotionally, it leaves you with what is. And what is, is almosteverything.

Melanie: Yes.

Mary: So it’s almost this contradiction because I joked that it’s almost likewe’re all lost property. And for some reason, we have this fear that we’relost property. But actually, that is the best part of it because as lostproperty, there is no ownership. There is nothing. You don’t need to worryabout where things belong and you’re free. There is a freedom. And I thinkthat we should all – I suppose for me personally, I can’t speak for everyone,






I like the excitement that comes from almost relishing being lost and lettinggo and trusting what will appear because it is never what we think it will be.

And it’s always much more than we thought we could ever handle. And thatis the joy I think of just letting go because you couldn’t manage it if youtried.

Beryl: What you’re really saying is I think, what you’re saying to me let’ssay, what you’re saying to me is don’t limit yourself and it’s so easy, isn’t it?Because when we make plans of what we think life is going to be, actually,we’re limiting ourselves, aren’t we?

Mary: Absolutely, absolutely. And don’t get me wrong, I know – it’s not thatI wake up and wander around aimlessly. I just want you to see what theday will bring me. Everybody in the organization, there are things that we

have to do. But it’s always leaving space, always leaving space for anything, for something, for nothing, it’s leaving space. And sometimes Ithink we fill our lives too much. And trust me, I am the worst case.

Melanie: You know all about that.

Mary: We fill our lives too much. And I think part of this inner journey of letting go with me is physically, I have been filling my body too much butI’ve also been filling my life too much. And letting go is about creatingspace. So you can go in the journey. You can be in the car. You can haveyour [0:47:23] [Indiscernible] or you can have your map. But slow down.Roll down the window. Look left and right.

Melanie: Enjoy the journey.

Mary: Yes. Enjoy it and relish it and trust that you will get there. But alsotrust that getting there may not be the destination you’re programmed intothe [Indiscernible] .

Beryl: Maybe a more exciting destination is waiting for you.

Mary: Absolutely.

Melanie: But what this reminds me of actually, we have a colleague and herefers to this as delighting in the wonder of uncertainty.






Mary: Yes, I love that. I love that. Oh, uncertainty is – that is another thingthat I just think is magical. It’s all of these words and things that we’re soused to hearing that have been attached with some form of fear. And I thinkit’s really rewriting that coding of how uncertainty can be sometimes such apowerful place to be, such a powerful place to be, being nervous, beingscared, the unknown. It’s I think how we accept what that can bring for usand actually see the gift in that, really see the gift in that. And I think thatcomes down to trust. If you really trust in yourself because trust is abouthaving the certainty to know that whatever happens, you’ll be OK and youcan deal with it and it will be fine.

And so I think, once you have that trust, that certainty yourself, you candeal with the uncertainty.

Melanie: I know it’s a delight.

Mary: Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Beryl: We’re aware that you have plenty to do at Alternatives. We couldtalk for a long time. We would like to invite you back to discuss more of these topics.

Mary: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yes, I have – see, I enjoyed creating withyou two gorgeous ladies. It’s been a true delight, a true joy. Honestly, ithas. And I just want to commend on the work that you do as well because itis all about joining the dots and connecting and inspiring and holding thespace. And so, it’s been a real privileged to be a part of your journey evenfor a short while. And so, thank you.

Beryl: Everything you’re saying is resonating with me about fear, being outof comfort zone, not knowing where things are going but trusting that we’reon the right path. That was all humming away in there for me, Mary, for sure.

Mary: Oh, fantastic, fantastic.

Beryl: OK.

Mary: Thank you.






Melanie: Speaking of which, you assist people on their journey, do younot? Do you not coach or mentor yourself privately?

Mary: Yes, I do. Not as much as I used to because of my time at Alternatives. But what I am actually starting up again which I used to yearsago, ironically, that is where I met Vivian who now deals with our social andmarketing. And she used to come to one of these women’s group that Iused to run in London every week. And it was like a beautiful pool of lostsouls who were looking at me like, [0:50:22] [Indiscernible] .

And we had the most incredible dialogue and journey and connection andit’s about holding the space. And I have missed doing that for one and I’verealized that because I had very limited time to do one-to-one coaching, Istill do it now and then. And I work with some businesses, more sort of

social entrepreneurs. I’m actually looking at starting now that group again. And I’ll let you know. But it’s going to be around a covered garden area andit’s going to be the first Thursday of every month. So if anyone is interested,please feel free to get in touch.

Melanie: And how would they find you?

Beryl: Yeah.

Mary:OK. They can email me. So if you want – OK. If you want to send

anything to Alternatives, the best thing to do is to go on to the website. Theemail address is [email protected]. If it’s something about thewomen’s group or coaching, then they can find me, if they’re going [email protected] then they can get a hold of me there or Facebookme. And Alternatives, please come to Alternatives’ Facebook and Twitter page. There is such a buzz going on around that now. We are lovingconnecting with people and sharing our thoughts and even our afternoonteas, the birthdays. Like we have girls’ day on Friday when we just have thegirls in the office and [0:51:46] [Indiscernible] .

Beryl: That sounds fun. You better give us your address.

Mary: Not part of letting go though, is it?

Beryl: No, no, no.






Mary: [Indiscernible] . It’s all about balance.

Beryl: OK.

Melanie: OK. I suppose we better let you go.

Mary: Thank you.

Melanie: And before we do, just to round up, I would just like to thank thelistening audience for tuning in to today’s episode of Wired for Success TV.I would just like to say, if you are watching the episode on our site, thenplease, please remember to comment on the box somewhere below myfinger and do leave your comments and questions and I’m sure Mary willanswer any questions or thoughts as appropriate.

If you’re watching this on YouTube, then please be sure to press thesubscribe button which is up here somewhere. And do subscribe to our YouTube channel. If you are listening to this on iTunes, again, pleasesubscribe to our podcast channel and please leave a review. If you arewatching this on social media, please feel free to share this with your friends. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter at ….

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Finally, regardless of where you’re listening to us from, if you haven’t doneso already, please head back to our site which ishttp://www.wiredforsuccess.tv and sign up for more awesome contentabout future episodes and whatever else we’re doing.

And of course, we’re going to have a transcription of this.

Beryl: Yes, there will be one. Absolutely.

Melanie: Yes, there will be a transcript of this interview very soon. So thankyou all for tuning in. Please remember to tune in for our next episode. Andfrom myself, Mel Gabriel, and Beryl and Mary Daniels, we say goodbye.

And say goodbye ladies.












Beryl: Bye.

Mary: Bye.

Beryl: Thank you so much, Mary.

Mary: Thank you. You’re more than welcome.

Beryl: See you soon.

Mary: More than welcome. Take care. Bye.

Beryl: Bye.

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Befriending Fear With Mary Daniels [Episode 49] Wired For Success TV

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