Black Bordered Ad

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P D 3 0 2 Rr;w 1- 25 6 0 ) .=EDE RA L BUREAU OF INVESTIGA " · ~

DL 89 -4 3NY 89 - 75

HairEyesComplexion

Reside nceTelephoneEmpl oyment

Marit a l Status

Father

Mother

Brother.s

Mili tary Service

Army Ser ia lNumber

Draft Board

Dark brownBrownFai r

Dote _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

lf39 South Columb us Avenue,Mount vernon{ New York9 1 ~ MO 4- 699 4Not pre sent l y emplo yed , buts ta ted he in tends to f i lean appl icat ion for patrolmanof th e New York City PoliceDepartment on December 5 , 1963l\1arried to JANE BYRNES WEISSl\ lAN,present l y separated and contempla t i ng divorceHARRY WEISSMAN439 South Columbus Avenue ,Mount Ve rnon, Nell/ YorkLILLIAN WEISSMAN,1063 Gra n t AvenueJACK V JEIS8r ·1AN, age 18 ;res iding a t Grant Avenue ad dr essJOE WEI SSMAN, a ge 27 , marri e d,two chi l dren , res id in g 160Renner Avenue , Newark , New Jers e yUnited Sta tes Army, Mili taryPolj _ce Corps, from August , 1 96 1 ,to August, 1963, honorab ly discha rged a s Private Firs t Class

US 51474609; rese r ve s ta tus -pr ese n t ly in un assigned reserveLocal Boar d Number 10 ,Lin co l n Bui ld in g ,3 rd Fl oor ,100 Stevens Ave nu e ,Mount Vernon New York



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CENTRAL It(fELLIGENCE AGENCY AWASHINGTON 25 , D.C. ._ sc.£ _3 / 'J J g91

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rot · · n i ~·e t e r..... ·.·:.:· -'· : ·.Federal .Bureau .ot Invest igat ion ..

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. ~ ·. . T ~:Washini fon . ~ News a r t i c l e :also states .tba t the .f \ l l l ~ ed .. ¢ich p r e s ~ cost. .$125,0.00 was pla.oed by WEISSMAN,~ t ,. he:p & i c ; J :9 a s l ;( . t 9 ~~ .~ ~ ~ ;a : ~ ~·. ·aM; ,that : w E J : ~ M A Nr e ~ i d e 4i n ~ U + a sa ~: · ~... ~ ·. a ~ n t : p o ~ : ~ ~ .T l i ~··~ ~ i : o l e. i n d i ~ ~ s:..~ - c l. to ·h a v e. b e a n~a saleema:i' 'fl'On f Ne1r York · · that ·h.8 ·roamed With . <me ·

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WilU,am. 2UlW$Y;:·tJW.tt$12S.OOin oash ..was 'pSid 'fdr ·a month's rentana ' hB.t ' WEiss.MAli'mom out on about 26 November 196 3, oetensi blyto . ~ e t u r n: ~ ~N : e wYoric. An a r t i c l e concerning t h i s topio also appearedi n the Washington Post of 30 ·November 1963.

' .~.. :. j ~: ~ _ ·; r ~: :·~ ~ ~.6 \ h i ~offioe contain information about oneBUl . B U ~1 ·.. , u . s• .Air Force Tech Sergeant, stationed i n Libiain 'l9S8 'd:io m:ay.hava been involved i n netarious aot iv i t ies . You arereferred to the . Office ot S p e c U . J ,_ . I n ~ e ~ g ~ t A O J 1 s1 . ~ S A F ,.ror .poesibleaddi :Lo:oal information. · . ·

MAY 197•

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A inan ~ o i n Kb y l h r nameof & n uu<l \V{'I"<ima n mo vedInto a r.m a ll Dalla. a p a r t m ~ n tOOIIM No \' . 6. Hf' told l h~. . ndlad y, Mn . Dc an S. Rober t s . th a t h e w • l l a u l e ~m a na nti w a ~ h < ~· I r o m NewYork C it y . ·

Mr. W r iP:IIman o v ~ outo thro apartment t h ~ day11·a : o a d v l ~ 1 n « lh d d

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4. Our informatiOn indicates tba t BURLEY had contact withpen,ona 'Whose act iVi t ieJ seem to have been qUestionable. Thesepersons are shown i n our f:Uea to bes

a . tnu BABINtlrON, a Bri t ish soldier and h:laGermn w1£:,e lrene. 'l'he BABINCY.rON1 a reportedly .l e t t Benghazi attAr March 1958. . .. . . ,. . . . .

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A inan golnlf by the nameor &rnJtnl \V<.'II\.'Iman movedInto a f;tnall Dalla• apartmenth o l l i \ e No v . 6. Hfl told th

. landlady , Mr'l . Dean s. Robrr1s that he Willi a a a l e ~ a nan d · wa11 h u e . { r o m NewYork Clly . ...

Mr. Wrl ;11man move-d outo l t t apa r tment t h ~ day11 ·

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2 · Till-: WMiHINI;T().N DAILY NEWS, FRlDAY , )'.;QVJ::MBER ~ . 1963

JFK alled a Traitor in Handbills Too

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Dallas ds ProbedBy SETII KA:'\'TOR

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Mornlnl N r w ~In r As h for

the advertlsemf'nl ht'p h ~r • d.

DALLAS , Nov . 2 9 - AhMubill was circulated aW ( ' ~ k1\J U today on two1ollege rampusc.s here . It1<hnwetl f r· on t and Bidevjew pictur e." n f .John F .l<t'n lledy. I t srticl:

He peld . MVt'r&l hundreddoDaJ'II. A spokesm•n ro r thent>:Wspaper would not dlsclo3ethe exact 11moun1 ... rl'portl'dly about $ 1 2 . . ~ l o r he full ·~ · l p e c e .

A l t ~ r"wekomlng " P rt> slcl 'nt K c~n n c d ylo Dallal , thradVf'J1htMnrnl adds:

" Warll f'cl lor T r rl\son.'"

A full -pagf' l dvertlsement. . .. "' prln t'<l the same day Inl1W Dall.1s MomlnK News.Sri In s ide an omlnou_, blackboror r, It charred P r l ' S ~ O tKennaly with being "solt" on

enemies or America.f'BJ lgt>:nts 11re chec Jdng

•nlo the r e uon s l o r lhe appc•aranc-e o l the s l n l ~ t e rhand ·bill And nl'w s paprr ad3 on thl'flay P r ~ : d d r n lKr.nnedy WL'Il " ' l ' B~ ' I nR t "d h err.

FAR RHOHT

Th <' dire w o r d ~In bothnot r t.· ~ C ' J h vl o u ~ ; l y w r In·~ p i n• r t hy f'XIrf'ml ils of thepolrl ic·a l far rlJ;ht.

Wrre tlw h a n d b l l l ~"plantf'd " tiy u•r Hnrvey w n l d ,

flw• l d tb t , or by his r onfed ·t r l l l ' " U h ~ tuut 11ny, to rast

l'UIIpklon on th,. fanallr l orthfo tar r ight on t h ~ day o ftlw' ~ ~ ~ S i n A I I o n ~

'J11r l l f 'W ~P i l f ) f ' r11cl ve r t i *mrnt was hcar Jin,. rl : ~ w ~ l

romr •. ~ l r . KcnnNJy. to Dal.Iii _.. l r wn ." ~ i r , n C ' c lat tht 'hoi tt , rn · " l k n l l l f l l \\ 'cl ss mnn,I h •• ,\rn,.rknn F ; ~ c t- F ' I n d l n g

Com mi lc••. an IJnarfilla l'd'md Nnn Pal'tis "rl Gr oup n

C lt i7f'lls W h o Wl .sh Truth ,P 0 . lox 1792, Oolla11.'' '

". • .. Why h u Gu Hall ,heltd ot 1M Communist Pa rty of America. pra lwd afm01tevery orw o your p o . l l c l ~t

" . • . Why h a v ~you scrappedth e · Monroe Ooct .rtne, In fa .vor ot the 'Spirit of Moscow'

'... . . 1Vhy h a n you o r d e ~ dor permitted y o u r brother,Bobby, lht' Attorn ey ~ n e r a l

to 10 son on co mmunism,r ~ n o wtraW Iers a n d ul t ralet t ls ls

" . . . \-\'hy 111 • • • lhl C rntral l n l f ' l l l & ~ m· e A g « > n~ ·y 11r·TlnJing coops And ha v ing~ t a u n e h111111 -comrnunl s t olll" ·"of th r U. S . bodily f'XIerml ·lilted?"

Y t thl ' a r t vc 1· t l ~ f ' m f ' n l. . .dr.splle Its protltl e l c bl a •·kb o 1 ~l t > r - w a ~n•Jt "-' blunt 1uthe handbills d l ~ u· l h u t t ' donthe c1mpu:lffl n SouthernMt>: hodiat tJniVf'r"llily a n dnearby Arline tun Stat1t Col·Jert>.

UnniVJr.d , tt:f' ' Wanted fo rTrr.ason" ha nc t •i 'h . l ' h a r ~ c c l

P rl's ldP.nt Krnnrc ' with "betray ing th e Com 1h rllon " andwllh being " wro l J ( I ll ' "~ '" ' - 'alfecllng lhe 11• '- : J ri l y n l t h ~U n l ~. S t a t ~ ~: ·

'LAX'

'nwr-r. I . ~ n o Brrnard Wels.•man In D a l l 1 1 ~ .nnt.l no "Amcrk • l ~ r • c " · F I n d;,il Com·, .ltlet- ...

The handbill ch l,rlbu f'd byCOJlt'ft'-IJf"d ~ r ~ C " l l ,laid )Pru.ldtmt K ,.n11 h that "hPbaa beaa I • x · ' " entordn1

communJ It ~ l l f r a l l o nhtWll ufflt:r h a.< b1•cn c n• •r t: t '1

. . . has con \lstf'niJy a p r ~ o l n t tantM<tlc li e. 111 1 hP. A nl"' io ' '

ed anti -Chrllltiazu to ~ a l_ : . people ."

A inan golnR by lh t nameof lk r n ard \Vcl l'l-c;man movedIn t o a ~ m a l lDall•• 1 p a r t ~ n tb o n ~No\' . 6. · Hf' told fht>

: landlady , M n . Dc Jin S. Rober1s, th a t · h e w•• a ule lmanand w a.~ h « > ~. · C o m NewYork Cl y . ·

Mr . W < ' l l : ~ ~ ; ma n moved outo f th P apar tment tht'f t' day11ar: o advl : ln ( lhl ' landlady





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C E N T R L I N T E L L I G E N C E G E N C Y

W S H I N G T O N ~ C

4. O u r i n f o r m a t i o n i ndica tes tha t B U R L E Y h a d c o n t a c t wi thp e r s o n s whose ac t i v i t i e s s eem to have b e e n ques t ionab le . T h e s ep e r sons a r e shown n o u r f i l es to be:

a . fnu BABINGTON, a B r i t i s h so .l d i e r and hisThe BABINGT..DN s r e p o r t e d l y

l e f t Benghaz i . s e t i m e a ~ f t e r M/a r~h 19 58.

b. Hei KO J . ) .QI . IECISKJ (phonet ic) .He was a q ~ r m nna t ion b o t : n_ • ;~i r c 1913-1918. In1958 h e Wa.s e m p l o y e d a s a n e n g i n e e r b y P o s t s andTe l e c o m m u n i c a t i o n s i n Benghaz i . H i s wife, who i sabout f ~ v e y e a r s older t h a n h e r h u s b a n d was an E n g l i s hw o m a n e m p l o y e d a t the NAAFI s h o p i n Benghaz i .

6 . The above i n f o r m a t i o n i s p r o v i d e d a s a r e s u l t of a p r el i m i n a r y c h e c k o f o u r r e c o r d s . T h e r e c o r d s of t h i s off ice c o n t a i nno addi t iona l i t l io rmat ion which a t t h i s t i m e c a n b e iden t i f i ed a s

per ta in ing to the p e r s o n s who m i g h t b .e i d e n t i c a l with the m e n whop l a c e d t h e n e w s p a p e r ad , . o r to p e r s o n s who m i g h t have b e e n i n

contac t with t h e m .

A t t a c h.Inent a / s

F o r T h e Deputy D i r e c t o r P l a n s : l

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we r e from the Un:ivers i t y o f Da l l a s , Ir•vin g , Texas. He sa idt hese s tudents did some p icke t ing a t th e tim e :; o f DL I

STEVENSON's appearance in Dal las but th€ se students wereno t the ones who s t ruck or . 11 spat upon STF.VENSON a t that tlme.SCHMIDT s a i d the s tudents were only p i c k e t i n g i n an order lymanner. SCHMIDT sa id he himsel f i s not a stu dent.

SCHMIDT descr ibed himsel£ as a ~ c o ns er v a t i v e

~ ~ df e l t t h a t no demonstration such as picket ing sh ould be givena t an appeat•ance o f a Pres ident o f th e Unl ted Sta tes but · hef e l t h a t some type o f ac t i v i ty s hould be engaged i n whic h wouldind ica te disapproval o f Pres ident KEN.NEDY 0 EJ pol : ic ies . Hetherefor•e conceived the i dea o f i n s e r t i ng a n ad :tn the n e w s ~

paper i n s ~ e dof engaging i n any o t h t : ~ r ·type o f a d.emonstr)a.tion.He f ' i r s t considered placing h i s own name in the ada . BERNARDWEISSMAN appeared i n Dal las a t aoout the t L m ~ o ~he was . th inking ·about · t :his ad. He · sa id BERNAIID WEISSMAN i s a 8 good conservat iveand i s o f th e Jew:.tsh F a i t h . SCHMIDT ~ i d ·on nurr.er·ous occasions

11a n t i - ·Semitism chargesu had been ma.de ag a:Ln st; c on s e rva t ives

and he t h o u g h t ~

the use . ofBERNARD WEISSMJUP s n ame

int h e ad .

would to some ex ten t counterac t the a n t i ~ S e r n : t t i s : mcharges t h a thad been leveled aga ins t conservat ive s u. He bel i eved theappearance o f the name o f . a person o± the Jew.i sh f a i t h i n suchan ad m i g h t a t t r a c t persons o f th a t f a i t h t o :r)eply :to the ad. AlsoSCHMIDT sa id · he was i n t e r e s t e d J.n .f inding ou t i r ep l i e s wouldprove l e f t wini persons a r e j u s t a ~ a n t i ~ S e m : t t i cas ·persons in the r i gh t wing 19 c I t wa s ·J.ec i d e d_, t;herefore.., t h a tBERNARD WEISSMAN's name with h i s p e:r.·mls.si on wc· u ld be placedi n the a.do He sa id the ad was wr·i titf m as :lf a.n O t gan:1zationkno'\'vn a s The Amer:tc a.n Fact Finding Committe e had l n ser ' ted i t

with BERNARD WEISSMAN being shown as i t s c h a :t ~ m a n SCHMIDTsa i d t h a t there i s no such organiz a t ion ·a s •rhc : A.Y le r•ican Fa.ctFindin g Committ ee; t h a t i t i s s imply a 1141.m e . 'Ghoug.ht o f by himfo r t h i s advert isement. He sa id n o o r ' g ~ n i ~~ a l t o n par t ; ic ipa ted:Ln t h e p re par• a t:ton o r plac:I;n g o f t h i s a.d j.n ' l:;he nDa.l l a s Mo r·nin gNe wsr.r which appeared on Nov ember 22.9 l9 63 a He s a:td :t t \.Yas\'I r i t t en by hims e l f . a t h i s apartment ctt 5 1::35 Gas t on an d wa sa s s i s t ed · some i n i t s pt•eparat ion by JOSEPH P . GR INNAN ., 4640South ern ., Dal l as , an indep end en t o i l ma n who h at-::. an af 'f ' ice





NA TIONA L S T,.ATEOY COM M in HIP1r1l 1l U t tlng)

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oben w. o • .,.,., CM:IHT* n.MotOI'oa., ~ n c . .

T N H - . L v y W . . .ror m9 ' A., . . . t , . .ao r

a ... . l . C . H . o.,.,.,..USAF Ifi ll .)Fotmfl C o m r n - n c N r - t n C I I ~f

S l l l l ~ l c :Air Co mm1NI

G e t ~. \. .L LMnnlt:_., USA l Re '-)Form41' Cl\lil l 11 n, ..loll\

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Or. Wi m J . TMI..-C h l i r ~ n. ~ y 1 o c : to.p.n:m.tu ,

Glorget own U r W~ t i t v

Oen . N.f. TWlnl 'll . USAF ( Pitt.Form e t C'"'-''"'•n J o j r ~ t

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' ' WiliiiM A . VM c ....... . O ireoc tOI .Str1legfe i n d s.c:,.ritv SILI<Iilt. Program

Unlur a fr11 o4 Soutn . tn C ,llornl t

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Lt. Oan . I l l Almond , U S ~l flet )Foorii'\M Ch11f 0 1 St1H 1o

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0 . O u n a n l1wn1n, l"ul:lllttMr.S L Lo u t Globe·O • mocr•t

F a r " * DirtoeiDr . OIA

Adln . fiLl. Oenn laon , US N l et .)Former Supt lmt Alhtd Camm.Mer .

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Dt . U m e t ~E. o n Jr .C he l'tl el" . o . , . . t l ~ r t to1 lldrric s.

C •lholoe\Jn ilfenil 'r '

Dr , S tephen P . OlbeortP rol eu or of Go wrnm e nt.

Georoerown U n ~r t i r v

U . ()eft . o.n4et Otm.m. VSA 1"- LlP:ormer O II.C:Ior , DIA

Gen . Pewf D . Hertdn t. USA ~ e l l

f orm • r COI ' rNiodinfol G e n er ~

U.S. MiiOI.ry An itllnc41Comrnand , Vt.1 nr1 '

Cllttlf"d f . Hood, o ~ Preltdltru ,Unrt.O Sl 11e1 S t " Corwr , tlon

J . . . -e t S . KemP. , . j Pr11 M: enr ,K1mpe r l ruur 1nc.e C o m p ~ n ie t

Amb . Wini.m A . l(fn.,. . . . , Pt HideMF o r ~ ~ g n~ h e yRe . . . d\ ln llrl ut •

Yloe Adm . F t t LM . US N ~ l )

Forrn • r C o m m ~ l 1 d • n Jof theN11ion e l W ar Col t . ( r l

l • i t - G ~- ft .C . fticMrdiOfl,lllUSA F (R i ll

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C ll lef lor J n l l r n l ll o n ~l

Securit¥ S t u d t ~•

Dr . EM1rd Tel....-,1\jutiM• Str•l 't ;l t

G.r . " - - i l W We lt . US MC tRel .lFormer A.nittent CM' m e ndent,

U n ited S11111 M• rine Corpt

G t n A. C . ~ t , USA {All ICh._l IJ S S r re t ~ • t Wo r ~W1r II

o.-. iugeMI P. w. . , . r , Ph¥'& 0c.•J I.Pl nc l l0 '1 Unlv 1 rti 1Y

AMERICAN SECURITY COUNCILWashington Communications Center

Boston, Virginia 22713

March 14, 1978

Mr. Alan J . WebermanIndependent R e s ~ a r c hAssociates6 Bleecker St ree tNew York, New York 10012

Dear Mr. Weberrnan:

We have received your payment to coverto our newslet ter, the Washington Report .opportuni ty to welcome you as a subscr iber.

the one yearI would l i ke

John M. FisherPresident

subscr ip t ionto take t h i s

We are in the process of adding your name to the mail ing l i s t ,and within a few weeks you wi l l begin receiving the WashingtonReport regular ly. Enclosed i s a complimentary copy of the l a t e s tissue.

I appreciate your i n t e r e s t and hope t ha t you wi l l f ind eachissue to be informative.

Best regards ,

Fisher

JMF/Wc

Enclosure



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IfRICHARD K. . MARKS, A a s i ~ t a r ~ tU ~ . s h i e :· , Republic N&.tionalBank, D9.llas, Texas, on Deoembe::- 3, 1963, at ivi ~ e d SA2 w. HARLANBROWN a."ld EDWIN D. KUYKENDALL t h t ho n ~ , tBERNARD WEIS::MA.N ~WILLIAM M. BURLEY on about Noven,l,er 12 1 1963, when BURLEY n s

t the Republic Nat ional Bank oons1de: ·1ng opening a bank a o ~ o u n t .

He under ctood WEISSMAN was on ly t.."l6re w t h BURLEY and was n o t

engaged 1n any buBlnerss t r a n s a c t i o n h i m ~ e l . 'a l though WEISSMANwas he:ax-d to r e t t . : ~ I ' kt h t he m : t g . . ~ t wa:::t t j open a.11 &.C:CC'U-"lt l t e r

t t h t ba.nk. BTJRLF.Y t o l d Mr. MARKS ( ' ) ~ 1alx1ut; N o v ~ ~ e •2£, 1963,t ha t he t..l)ought thf check he h ~ s u u ~ d1:r.. - . : - p e n t ~ g h i e · aocC.'C.'&..'" t

t the bank m:lgh t poea ib ly be : r · e ~ ; U I ' 7 ' i ~ : ib ( : . ; : : ~ . H ~ ~ C f i ' : S ~ l 1 ' ' 1 : l 1 e n t

funds ; th.:;.t h i a ' a ther might n o t hhv-:: P . ~ 1 ' ) ' . 1 . g _ h· ~ 1 1 . si n h i aocounti n No •th Carolin lt. to cover sa.me •

.Mr. MARKS u n c ' \ e . ~ a t o o dt h t BURI.E.Y $llld t l £ 1 ~ 8 . " ' 1 . \ NWE: -ei n the auned 'Circes t ~ g e t h f : re ~ ' 1 dw e ~ · eg ~ ~ " = " f i' ': .finds. He b ~ l 1 e v e s

t hey a re bot:h ' r i ends o ' one J..A.RRIE H. SUtJMXDT, A..'l f.>lY..;iloyee tMutua l o r New Yot•k 1 Da.lla13 1 T ~ x a i ~ .He belie- :VF.R SUHMIDI' w o ~ l d

know a g:t•eat ·df:a l about BER.N'ARD W E S S ~ l1 f . t • a o k ~ I \ : . l ' l l r , j a r ja c t i v i t i e s . He E:FJ. j S0HJvU:DT iA a •1 Uzt.t w : t l ~ : ~ I ·&..Y d has beP-"1very C'UtE'poken i n h i s th.:l.nking; a ~ a •rlgh4.; wl tger·". J l ~ t a idSCHMIDT i s a f"t•1end o f WARREN ' J A R R O L L1~ 4326 M ~ K 1 . ' L ~ e . yAvenue 6

· D a l l a s , a w r ~ t e rPz.ployed by • L t f e l i ~ c • ,ar. ~ n t ~ ~ I ~ z eb e l i e v e dc o n t r o l l e d by H. I •• HUNT, a weal thy ~ l l a ao i l J t l ~ . n .

Mr. M A R K : ~rvd. 1 L.4.RRIE S C L ~ D 'rm Dtt•J :-.r.i :•l7 · 3 ~ 1963, t o l dhim t h t h ·n thought BTJRLE:l ha•i gon;; t ~ S(•'tlth ' 1 \ : ~ ~ ~ s " ' ~ ' : : -t heholidays•• a.'ld PI'E:81ll'Jled W E I ~ ~ M A Nrr:F.t.y " ' , A . V ~ ;gt:"•TH' w.L h . hi.'J .

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Mr. .,.P.KS e . : ~t;e1 h'?. has r . · ~ ~ . n ' O : • l ' ~ - ' ~~ i o ni ~ • d : . a a t i r , ;

WEISSMAN ar.d BURLE:i a : •e a t t : t l i ' i t t :ti w i t ~· ~ q ~ 1 : rH:;:·e.:i ' . to (II·g..m1za.t1ons.Mr. MARKS does ne-t k low LEE HARVEY OSWA .D o::• cTA0K RUBY and hasno inf:oi'l'J18.t i o n t h a t 1- 0Uld i nd ioa t ' El. lY H S 5 • : ' C i ~·~ i o ' lbetwee 'lWEISSMAN an:i BURLEY wl .."l e i :r..er OSWALD c:• RtTBx·•

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U N I T E D S TAT E S .ATTORNEY

N O RT l i E R N D I STRICT 01 TExAs

DALLAS 1, T E l l S

75221Ap r i l 9, 1964

C e r t i f i e d Na i l No . 74751 0Ret u r n Receipt Reques t e d

Hr. Howard H i l l e n sThe Pres iden t ' s Commission on t h e

Assass ina t ion o f Pres iden t Kennedy200 Maryland Ave. NE

Tla s hing ton , D. c. 20002

Dear Howard:

C • . 7 ( ) ( ( ' 'omnuss1on No. J

You wi.U. remember t h a t a couple o f 1.;eeks ago Ha:rry l ~ c C or m a c k ar e p o r t e r f o r t h e Dal las Horning News, had ce.l.l.ed me t o sey t h a the • rould l i k e t o discuss wi th a member o f t h e Harren Cormnissionso r:e in:f ormat ion v h i c h he had o b t a i n ed : .n t h e course o f h i s 1vorkas a newspap e r man.

You e.nd I ag:reed t h a t i t v u l d save t ime t o have ~· r . McC orme ckin terview-ed b y t h e Secre t Se r v i c e and, a cc ord ing l y he 1.;as i n t e r -

viewed b y Johnoe

Howlet t on Apr i l

1 . Enclosed i s t r a n s c r i p to f tb .e t in te rv iew.

es t -.,;_shes.

Enclosure

. . ~ llt

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• SPIE ~ I

l t • Cororni ss ion No . 7 o

PAGE 1 o f 1 2 PAGE S

Tne fo l lmdng in te rv iew between Specia l Agent John Joe Ho wle t t · and l r . Ha r r yMcCormick, r e .po r t e r fo r the Dallas Hornin g News, was t a pe d a t the Dallas Of.fice

o f t he U. s . Sec re t Se rv i ce , Room oo, Reliance L i fe Bu i l ding , Dal la s ,T ~ { as ,

o nAp r i l 11 196 4.

HOHLE TT: I have ~ · l r Harry NcCormick o f the Dal las l'< orning 'News v i h me n ow andhas some information t h a t M r Barefoot Sanders , u s . At t o rne y , wantedme t o ge t from Mr . lvlcCormick. O.K., Nr. McC o rmick.

r·icC ORHICK: I guess f i r s t we 11 t a l k about t h i s advert isement t h a t appe ared i n t heDallas News on the morning of November 22nd i n which t h e r e was someslu..."Ting remarks . made ab ou t P re s iden t Kennedy o.nd the ad vias s i ~ e d

b y Bernard ~ l e i s s m a . n .Bernard \ leissman . l i ves a t .l-39 South ColumbusAvenue i n Nt . Vernon, New York, and from t h e i nves t i ga t i o n t h a t I

have made on t h i s thing., I t h ink t h a t he was only a puppet i n t h e t h i n g .I t h i ~ ~the i n s t i g a t o r o f the ad and a l so t he i n s t i ga t o r o f t he i n c i -dents r e l a t i v e to lvlr. Adlai Stevenson s v i s i t here • ~e r e engineered byt h i s man ., L a r ~ JH. Schmidt., who l i v e s a t 2807 We l bo rn i n Dal las andi s empl-oyed o r 'vas employed by t h e Ivlu tua l o f New York, an i nsurancef i rm ou t there i n the neighborhood. Schmidt i s a g raduate o f t h eLincoln, Nebraska Hi gh School i n 1955 and a t tended ~ I i a m iUnivers i ty .He speaks and wr i t e s German wel l and was han dled as a juveni le a t t heage o f four teen i n 195 1 1 char g ed wi th break ing and e nter ing , i n Lincoln ,Nebras ka , and was given a one-year probated sentenc e . As f a r as I know,he has no other c r imina l r ecord .

HOwl..E'IT : You s ta t ed t he Univers i ty o f Nia.mi --w as t h i s r•Iiami o f Ohio o r Univers i tyo f 1-fia.mi a t Flor ida

McCORHICK: I b e l i e ve i t was F l or ida , bu t I cannot be sure ab ou t i t . I d o n t know.I too k t h a t record o f f h i s employment ap p l i c a t i o n with th e . United Pres s .He worked b r i e f l y f o r tha United Press here i n Dal las . Unfor tuna te ly,they didn t have a p i c t u r e o f h i m ~ Now I have reason t o be l i eve t h et h i ngs I m saying a re t r u e , bu t i n a sense , they a re hearsay and i n asense , they a r e t he r e s u l t s o f qui te an ex tens ive i nves t i ga t i on wemade t o f ind ou t about t h i s t h ing . lvJy i n f ormation i s t h a t ~ l e i s s m a n ,

t o ge t h e r with a fe l low named William Bur le y , whose address i s 3353West 33rd S t r e e t , Denver, Colorado, t oge the r with Weissman and Schmidtwere i n the 508th Mil i t a ry Pol ice Ba t t a l i o n a t McGraw, Kaiser ine , Munich,Germany_, and they agreed when they were d i s cha r ged t h a t . they would meeta t D a l l a s because they f e l t t h a t t he r e were bus i ness oppor t u n i t i e s he reand t h a t i t was a conservat ive c i t y . Thay .a r e a l l t h r ee very muchr1 .ght-wingers . Weissman was discharged i n August of 1 96 3 and went t o h i s

home a t M t Vernon, where h i s f a the r i s an e l e c t r i c i a n . He was divorcedfrom h i s wife , Jane . I understand t h a t there was t o b e a r e c o n c i l l i a t i o nbu t whether t h a t ever occurred, I d o n t know, and he had t o l d somepeople here i n Dallas t h a t he would r e tu rn with he r a f t e r the Kennedyas sa s s ina t i on blew over and the Weissman ad ·i n connect ion with theKennedy assass ina t ion . Schmidt came here f i r s t . He a t tended the s ~ v e n ·son r a l l y .and was a witness .to the inc iden t whe r e Stevens on was s t r u c kwi t h a placard and wher e Stevenson was spa t upon . He wrote Weissman

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PAGE 2 of 12 PAGES

t h a t he was needed here i n Dal las as t h e l i b e r a l pre s s was r a i s i n gh e l l about the Stevenson i nc iden t .

\-There did you ge t the informat ion t h a t he wrote t h i s l e t t e r ? I mean,how d id you come about t h i s ?

NcCO Ri tiiCK: I go t p a r t of i t from conversa t ions t h a t he had with people here andp r t o f i t from a s t o r y i n the New York Times, I b e l i e v e - - a f t e r\{eissman had r e tu rned t o Mt. Vernon, a f t e r t he Stevenson a s s a s s i n a t i o n .

HOWLETT: You mean a f t e r t he Stevenson i nc iden t?

M c C O R ~ C KYes. No n o t a f t e r t he Stevenson--not a f t e r t he - -he re turned t o Mt.Vernon a f t e r t he Kennedy i nc iden t . I'm s o r r y.

HOWLETT: Arte r t he Kennedy assas s ina t ion?

McCOR.\UCK: Yeah, yeah. Let me see here . Schmidt 1 1as a member o f the YoungAmericans f o r Freedom and Ken Thompson, an e d i t o r i a l w r i t e r on ourpape r, was a d i r e c t o r of the Young .Americans f o r Freedom. They s a i dt h a t Schmidt t r i e d every way poss ib l e t o g e t the Young Americans f o rFreedom t o demonstrate a t the Stevenson r a l l y , b u t the d i r e c t o r s andt he leaders i n the organiza t ion refused t o do i t Schmidt was ve ryi n s i s t e n t and l a t e r he withdrew from t h i s organiza t ion because hedisagreed wi th t h e i r p o l i c i e s . So I know he was t he i n s t i g a t o r o ft he Stevenson t h ing from t h a t and Thompson. I got t h a t in format ionfrom Thompson. Afte r r ece iv ing t h i s l e t t e r from Schmidt, Weissman

and Bur ley drove he re and rented an aparbnent a t 4618 Reiger. Between them, they bad 300 when t hey a r r ived i n Dal las on November 5 t h .On November 19 th , Weissman showed up alone a t the Dal las News wi th acopy f o r t h i s adver t i sement and 800 i n cash . The same day, he r e n ted a Post Off ice Box, 1792, i n the a i n Post Off ice , and h i s box r e n ti s pa id u t o the 3 1 s t o f March. In f a c t , i t expi red yes terday, andI in tend to check and see whether t he box was renewed. There hasb e e n - - t h i s Post Off ice Box number appeared i n t h i s advert isement andt h e r e has been mai l coming t o t h i s box number and i t has been t akeno u t . I d o n t know who 1 s tak ing t he mai l o u t . But I suspec t t h a t

· Schmidt i s t h e man who i s . I have not t a lked t o Schmidt because Iwas hoping t h a t somebody with au thor i ty would be ab le to t a l k wi thhim, r a t h e r than a newspaper man.

· ROWLE IT: Now j u s t one ques t ion here , Mr. McCormick. You s a i d they showed upi n town wi th 300, b u t when t hey came down t o :the Dal las l o r n i nNewswi th 800 t o place t h i s ad.

McCORMICK: · That was two weeks l a t e r . They a r r i v e d here November 15th and t heycame t o t he News on the 19 th of' November.

HOWI..ET.r: On November l 9 t h l

NcCORMICK: Yeah.I

II

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P GE 3 o f 2 P GES

H0'1'11..ETI': Now, where did you g e t t h e information t h a t t h e y go t i n town wi t h .i30 0 ?

l cCOR}UCK: I be l i eve the manager o f t h e i r apar tment t o l d me t h a t o r , i t wase i t h e r she o r i t was p a r t o f Weissman s s ta tement i n t h e New York:Newspaper t h a t I spoke about . · I don 1 t know. I d i d n 1 t documentt h i s t h i n g perhaps l i k e I should have.

HOWLETT: Do you perhaps r e c a l l the da te o f t h e New York Times t h a t yo u aremaking re fe renca to - -approx imate d a t e s ?

~ - X C O ~ . f i C K :No, I cannot . I cannot .

HOWLETT: Was i t b e fo re t h e a s sa s s ina t i on?

}1cCO&'UCK: No, no, no, i t was a f t e r - - I d i d n o t take t h a t name dawn, o r t h a t da t e

down.Hmi.LETT: Wel l , t h a t s O.K. We can l o ca t e i t . I j u s t thought perhaps i f you

d i d have i t .

11cC0&\1IC'J.(: I saw i t n t h e Dal las L i b r a r y and i f i t w i l l h e l p you, t he L i b r a r ybas an index o f t h a New York papers and i t shows the da tes on whicht h e y ran s t o r i e s abou t Weissman. I be l i eve t h i s i s t rue . nd I

b e l i e v e , b u t rtm n o t p o s i t i v e , t h a t i t was a Sunday paper.

H O ~ T T You t h i n k i t was a Sunday paper?

McCOR.'iiCK: I may be wrong about t h a t . Anyway, t h e r e 1 s a n index there t h a t you

f i n d what da tes t h e y r a n s t o r i e s on \-leissman. With h i s name i n i t .Now a i t e r l e a rn ing t h i s p o s t o f f i c e box, r i g h t a f t e r he f i r s t l e f tt h e a d , the next day, he came t o t h e Dal las News ask ing f o r a p r o o fo f t h i s ad . But t h e proof was n o t ready, and he t o l d our people downa t ~ e News t h a t he needed t h i s p r o o f t o r a i s e t h e remainder o f t h e

14oo odd do l l a r s which t h e ad was cos t i ng . P o l i t i c a l adve r t i s i ngbas t o be f o r cash . We d o n t do any c r e d i t bus iness wi th p o l i t i c s .He go t t h e proof l a t e r t h a t morning and r e t u r n e d t h e next day.

HOWLETI': What day would t h i s have been?

?-: cCORMICK: Well , t h e 2 0 t h . He came back t h e 20th and asked f o r t h e proo f .

HOWLET.r: Right .

McCORMICK: And on Thursday, t h e 2 1 s t , no., no , I m s o r r y. He came and asked :fort h e p r o o f on the morning o f November 20th . And t h e p r o o f was n o tr e a d y. And he came back l a t e r i n t h e morning and s a i d t h a t he neededt h e proof t o r a i s e t h e remainder o f t h e 14oo. He go t t h e p r o o f l a t e r

. t h a t same day. And, he r e t u r n e d t h e n e x t day, which was November 21s t ,



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w i t h t h e ba lance of t h e money i n cash . Tba t n i g h t he c a l l e d t h eNews and s a i d he had heard we were n o t g o ing to run the ad , b u ta f t e r i nqui ry o f the Adver t i s ing Na.na g e r , Cy Hagner., Weissman wast o l d t h a t i t would r u n . Miss Jean Rober t s , manager o f the a p a r t -ments on Reiger S t r e e t where Weissman l i v e d 1 s a i d i'leissman t o l d h e rt h a t the FBI and S e c r e t Serv ice men had grabbed him and Bur ley a f t e rt h e a s s a s s i n a t i o n on Saturdalf 1 and roughed ~ up , he t o l d ·h e r .Quote: There 1 s going t o b e t r o u b l e . T h e r e ' s a b i g witch h u n t onand I d o n t want t o be invo lved .

Unquote. f.-lrs. Rob--Niss Robertss a i d \feissman t o l d h e r when t h e y checked o u t o f t h e apar tment .

You s a y when t h e y p i c k a t Bur ley. Burley. , what i s t h e (pause )?

McCORMICK: Him and Bur ley.

HOWLE IT: He and Bur ley. Right .

~ ~ C O R M I C K :Bur ley was t h e second guy t h e r e t h a t came from New York w i t h him.Saturday, a f t e r t h e a s s a s s i n a t i o n , a ~ J r s .Smith c a l l e d Heissman andl e f t t h e number E M 8 ~ 2 2 4 .This phone i s l i s t e d to John R. Smith.But when the i n v e s t i g a t o r s c a l l e d and t a l k e d with h e r , Mrs. Smithi n s i s t e d t h a t she knew no Weissman and t h a t i t was a mistake o f somek i n d . I d o n t know abou t t h a t .

HOWW .."'""'T: You say i n v e s t i g a t o r s

McCORMICK: Ei7.her t h e S e c r e t Serv ice o r t h e FBI one t o l d Miss Roberts t h a t . She

s a i d t h a t when Weissman and Bur ley l e f t t h e apar tmen t and moved o u t ,t h e y l e f t cons ide rab le s t u f f packed .

HOWLE TI : Excuse me, Mr McCormick, would you w a i t j u s t a moment and l e t mechange t h e b e l t l

NcCORMICK: Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.

HOWLETI : Okay, Mr. McCormick, would you con t inue t h e r e now l

l-k:CORMICK: Yeah, I l l s t a r t t h a t paragraph over a g a i n . l.fiss Roberts s a i d t h a twhen Weissman and B u r l e y checked o u t o f h e r apar tmen t , they t o l dh e r t h a t Schmidt , La rry Schmidt , would come and g e t · some c o n s i d e r a b l eamount o f s t u f f t h a t they l e f t packed t h e r e i n t h e apar tment , andhe d i d come a n d p i c k i t up and took i t away. Schmidt d r i v e s a~ b l e r Texas 63 License Number NY 8889. I have de layed t a lk ing w i t hSchmidt i n the hope t h a t some o r t h e agenc ies t h a t a r e a u t h o r i z e d t oi n v e s t i g a t e t h i s t h i n g , would jump hi.m up, and do a thorough job o fques t ion ing . I d l i k e t o t a l k t o h i m and probab ly w i l l eventualJ .y,and I want t f i n d out t h e t y p e o f m a l l t h a t 1 s coming i n on t h a t boxo v e r t h e r e . I t s p o s s i b l e t h a t t h e y a r e t r y i n g t o organ ize somet y p e o f a r igh t -wing o rg a n i z a t i o n t h a t I d l i k e t o know abou t and I d I

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l i k e to know who t he contributors were on the advertisemen t tha t

was placed i n the News. There i s a man named Cl yde J . Noore o f4318 Buena Vista in Dallas who i s present ly the Puol i c Relationsman for Dr. Robert Morris, a John Bircher candidate f or the UnitedStates Se nate on the Republican t i cke t , who knows a great deal aboutth i s t}:ling. ~ b o r e i s a r ight-winger and i s wel l c ~ u i n t e dwithSchmidt and knows a l o t about the whole th ing . Pbore , pr io r to histaking th i s job with Dr. Robert Morris , was employed by H. L Hunt,who runs a radio p r ogram cal led Li fe l ine whic li i s also very r i gh twing. Schmidt guaranteed the telephone b i l l of Vieissman and Bur leywhen they rented t h a t apartment and the te lephone company bas beent ry ing t o col lec t i t from Schmidt. Schmidt, himself, has an U l ~ i s t e d

telephone number.. The telephone company has a l e t t e r dated November20 1 1963, signed by chmidt, and guaranteeing the Heissman telephoneover on Reiger St ree t apartme nt . I bel ieve t h a t s l l I have ontha t ad.

You have some more information there on something else?

.HcCORMICK: Yes 1 I do v.ave. Now1 you may have a l l th i s 1 I don t know. This Igo t la rgely from the pol ice , and i t concerns a handbil l t h a t was d i s -

t r ibuted during the night before Kennedy s ar r iva l here, which was i n

the form of a fugit ive c i rcu la r, and i t had stud horse type across thetop, sa id Wanted fo r Treason, and i t showed a m ug type of shot , f rontview and prof i l e of Pres ident Kennedy , and i t was a very despicable ,i n su l t ing t h i n g . I know you have p a r t of th i s information. Accordingto the police , a man named Robert Glenn Krause , o f l l26 Waverly St ree ti n Dallas , and has a Dallas Police Number 32816 and DO 9 -14-3 3 --32;:i,s e;:;rployed as a p r i n t e r a.t Let tercraf t a t 2615 Oak Lawn. I t s operatedand owned by a Mrs. Dorothy 1-lercer , who I understand, i s e i the r Krause smother , or mother-in-law, and he to ld the pol ice tha t a man, unknownto bil l came to g e t cuts made, f ront view and prof i le , o f PresidentKennedy and he sa id he go t the cuts made a t lvlonk Brothers a t 2027 YoungSt ree t , Dallas, and delivered same to the unknown man when he returnedto the Oak Lawn p r i n t shop . The charge was $4. He says he does notknow th i s .man and h e does not . know who pr in t ed the handbills , butpol ice be l i e ve he pr in ted them himself . But since they could f ind nolaw viola t ion \-lith which to char3e him 1 he was re leased without verys t r i c t questioning . He has quite an ar res t record, which i s avai lablea t

the Pol ice Department. Do you want me to g ive you t h i s ar r e s t

r e cord,what I v e got here?

HOWLErT: Everything t ha t you have there , why don 1 t you j u s t . give us everythingtha t you have , Mr McCormick?

NcCOR. I{ICK: All r i gh t . On 8-4 -4 9 arres ted in Yuma, Arizona fo r inves t iga t ion o fDyer Act; l l -16 -49 For t Worth as a fugit ive and got one year p r obationon l -3-50 under the Brooklyn Plan; in te r s ta te t ranspor ta t ion of s to lenmotor vehicle; t h i s i s t h e same thing; on April 3rd, 50, two years;

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3-13-50 arres ted a t Alexandria, L o u i s i a P ~inves t iga t ion of au t ot h e f t no dispos i t ion; 3-14- 50 Baton Rouge Louisiana, au to t h e f tinves t iga t ion , no dispos i t ion; 4-12-50 he Has received a t the~ e d i c al Center for Federal Prisoners a t Spr ingf ie ld , ~ l i s s o u ri ont h e two-year sentence t h a t he go t under the Brooklyn Plan and gota regular parole on Janua ry 3rd, 1951. He was axrested in Dallason the 21st of June 1951 driving while intoxicated, no dispos i t ionshmm ; and I got a pic ture of him i f you want i t .

Well, I can, we can ge t ano ·ther pic ture o f him i f you want to keept h a t .

NcCORHICK: Now some of your people talked t t h i s man . I think you d id . I 'mnot posi t ive abo u t t h a t .

H O . J L E I T : Have you, in n y way been able to t i e him with ny of these r i g h twing organizat ions, o r Schmidt, or any of the other people?

M c C O R ~ C KNo I haven ' t done any fur ther with t h i s thing. I don t expect w e ' l lbe able. to pr in t any s to r i e s on i t and I j u s t don ' t know.

HOWI.E IT: Have you ev e r seen Schmidt or Burley or ·Heissman where yo u would reco gn i ze them i f you were to see a pic ture of them?

NcCOfu\UCK : No I r...ave not. No.

HOWLETr: You don ' t think . you >wuld recognize Schmidt?

NcCOR\UCK: No.

HOWLETr: Or Burley'

NcCORMICK: :No. None of them .

ROWLETr : Nor Heiss man e i the r one?

McCORMICK: No.

HOWLE IT: O . K . s i r wel l .

McCORMICK: I may t a lk to Schmidt some of these times but I 'm--I 've been hopefult h a t maybe the Secret Service or the FBI o r the Harren Commissionwould t ke some in te res t in th i s guy and work him over. He would--Idon ' t know--he would be the man t h a t could t i e th i s th ing . up. There 'sone othe r th ing t h a t I forgot to mention in connection with t h i sKrause. Did I - -d id I give his name?

H O ~ ~ Yes. Yes, I bel ieve you did . III

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NcCORHICK: With Krause, t h a t same--that a:fternoon, there;.ere a number of thesel1andbills inser ted in the Dallas Times Herald in t he i r vending mach-i n e s \There they s e l l these papers. Somebody put a nickel i n to l i f tup the l i d , and made e.n inser t ion of these Wanted for Treason handb i l l s i n quite a number o f Dallas Times Herald--I don t know how manywere put in t h a t way but quite a few. I forgot to t e l l you aboutt h a t . I haven t got t on roy notes i s the reason I missed i t . Iwas hoping t h a t somebody would t l k to th i s Smith, and see , Schmidt,r a the r, and get in to t h i s th ing a l o t fur ther, but since there i sno s to ry t ha t I can see i n the thing--as a matter of f ac t , my news-paper would l ike to forget about t ha t damn ad. I t s hurt us t r e -mendously. But, eventually, i nothing happens t ha t Schmidt doesn tappear before the Warren Commission o r I f ind out t h a t the a gencieshaven t questioned him, I m going to jump him t and t l k to him.Because, I m in teres ted in t h a t Post Office Box over there and whatthose people are t t o . I would judge t h a t the mail t h a t s comingin to t ha t box--that ad was reproduced in so many many places , youknow--pract ical ly every booklet and piece of l i t e r a t u r e t h a t s got tenout on the Kennedy Administrat ion has carr ied t h a t damn ad. The boxnumber is on i t , and t h e r e l l be l l sor ts of mail come in to t h a t th ing.There l l be--might be some money coming in to i t . There might be peoplet h a t would give him h e l l , and you know bawling him out, and mightbe same e ffo r t to keep t h i s t b ing- - I forget what they c a l l th i s Committeefor something o r other--when they signed t h i s ad. No such committee,I don t bel ieve , exis ted a t t h a t t ime. .May be t ha t they are t ry ingt o organize such a committee, and I d l i k e to keep up with a l l t h i sright-wing thing because no t e l l i n g what s going to happen in the

future here. I bel ieve t h a t s about a l l unless you ve got some quest i ons .

HOWLETr: Well, no, I c a n t think of any r igh t now. But there i s nothing moreyou have? There i s one th ing . Were you able to t i e any of the otherpeople s names t h a t have been involved i n ·the assassination in withany ~ these people7

M c C O l l i ~ C KNo I haven t . I have not. I of course, did quite a l i t t l e workon the Oswald and the RUby th ing , a.s a newspaper repor ter. Y paperf i r s t f e l t there was a connection between those two people. I neverdid f e e l tha t - - there i s a quest ion I have about the Oswald case t h a tI would l i ke to be answered, and I th ink i f t i s n t answered, t h a t

the Kennedy assass ina t ion w i l l be a matter fo r controversy fo r yearsand years to came.

ROHLE'I r: What i s the question?

McCOR.'UCK; The quest ion i s I would l.ike to know where Oswald was get t ing hismoney f o r his projected t r i p to Cuba and Russia when he went downto Nexico City to get out of t h i s country? There are · only a fewplaces where t ha t money could have come from. I t could have camefrom · Russia. I t could have come from the Free Cuba People.

HOWLETI': · One moment l e t me change the bel.t here, .Hr. McCormick and we 1 l . l cont inue on t h i s .

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Okay, l .1r. NcCormick, we had to caange "the d ic ta phone b e l t . Houldyou continue with your quest ion there?

f'lcCOIDJICK: Yeah, the money would have to have come--you can narrow the sourcesdown pre t ty wel l , I think. I t e i the r had to come from Russia o r fromt h i s Fa i r Play fo r Cuba Committee which Oswald worl ;:ed with or someagency of the United Sta tes Government, e i the r the State Department,o r the CIA, or the FBI. I have some hesitancy because I don t knowwhere t h i s thing i s go ing to go. I think tha t i t was a very seriousmatter when the FBI f a i l ed to not i fy the Police or the Secret Servicet h a t Oswald was i n t h a t bui ld ing and was working there and the typeo f euy he was, because they did know him. \ole might have avoided t h i sassass ina t ion i f tha t had been known. And i t - - i t makes me f e e l t h a tvery poss ib ly, he may have been an undercover man for the FBI becausehe was--because o f tha t f ac t and because o f the f ac t tha t his i i f e wasfrom Russia, tha t he had been to Russia, tha t the Sta te Departmentb rought him home, with t h e i r money. I t s quite possible, and then ofcourse any one--any one o f the p o s s i b i l i t i e s are--are within reason.Of course I rea l ize t h a t Mr. Hoover has sa id tha t they had not eiiJ?loyedt h i s man and so has t h e Head of the CLI \ sa id tha t . But they couldn 1 tsay anything e l se . There wasn t anything e l se they could have sa id .CIA sa id t r igh t away. I t was some time before 1 tr. Hoover sa id t h a the had no connection with the FBI.

H O ~ ~ Dur ing your inves t iga t ion o f the ev e n t s a f t e r th e s ~ s s i n t i o nandleading up to the assass ina t ion , have you come upon a n y t h i P ~yourse l ft h a t you fee l i s somewhat concrete as to a poss ib i l i ty of where t h i s

:mol :y could have been coming from?

.NcCORMICK: No I do not . I do not have anything concrete end have no conf i dencei n Oswald 1 s mother and I have made no a t tempt to t a l k to .t-Jarina. Herhookup with Martin--we couldn t do any business with her a t a l l becausel ~ i n was pre t ty f r iendly with a repor ter on the opposi t ion paper.We couldn 1 t reach her in any way. I wrote and sent her a l e t t e r bu ti t had no connection with the inves t iga t ion . I - -a wax museum up i n

Canada are depict ing the scene of the Ruby shootin g of Oswald and It r i e d to buy the clothes t ha t Oswald had and I t r i ed to buy Ruby 1 sclo thes fo r these wax dummys t h a t they were making and . I bad wri t t en14rs. Oswald a l e t t e r - - t h e wife--and I got no reply • . I made her anor re r o f $100 fo r the clothes he w o r e ~but I had no answer and Iunderstood from Thorne, the a t t o r n e y ~ T h o r n eand ~ ~ t i nrepresentedher : f i r s t , you know. I understood from Thorne t ha t the clo th ing t h a the wore had been impounded as evidence by the Police and subseq uent lysen t to Hashington f o r the crime laboratory of the FBI. O:f course,now I t i n k the display i s already made so I don 1 t th ink the clotheswould do any good. I got a complete descr ip t ion o f them so t h a t theywould be able to duplicate the clothing tha t both men wore, bu t I havenot--have not l inked any o:f these people together. I don 1 t - - I d o n tth ink there i s any connection--ei ther between Oswald and Ruby, o rbetween these right-wingers, S c h m i d t ~Weissman a t a l l , an d 1 e i the rRuby o r Oswald.

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n o t h e r words you f e e l t h a t t h i s Stevenson inc ident and the i·Tantedf o r Treason p o s t e r s a r e something t h a t was coming from ano ther i n d ependent . source?

f<1cCORMICK: Yeah. Yes, I th ink so . I f e e l t h a t way.

HO tlLETr: You apparen t ly f e e l t h a t t h i s source could prove to be a p o t e n t i a ldanger i n the f u tu r e?

McCORivliCK: I t could be 1 y e s . I f e e l t h a t vlay about i t Yes. Yes.

HOHLETr; Tha t s the reason t h a t you have made t h i s informa·tion known t o us l

NcCORMICK: Yes.. One o f the reasons and o f c o u r s e , I m n o t i n agreement w i t h t h i ss o r t o f t h i n g . I - - I saw my paper t h a t morning t h a t Kennedy came t h e r eI have never had such a fee l i ng . I t - - i t ·j u s t disgus ted me beyond a n y -i t ,.;as the most impol i t e d i r t y desp icab le t h ing . And then o f t h ea s sa s s i n a t i on fol lowing i t j u s t made i t t h a t much worse. The paperf e e l s t h a t way about i t 1 not on ly .me.

HOWLET.r: Well_, ri. ow, i my memory i s c o r r e c t , t h e r e was a Robert Hatf ie ld whowas t h e person t h a t s p a t on Ambassador Stevenson?

McCO 'ilCK: Yes. I d o n t know any th ing a b o u t t h a t . Ye s .

HOWLE.Tr: We r e you ab l e , o r d id H a t f i e l d s name come up i n assoc ia t ion withSchmidt , Bu r l ey, o r He issma.n?

NcCORMICK: No,i t

h a s n t a s f a r as I m concerned. No. You s ee , I h a v e n t t a l k e dto any of these people . I v e t a l k e d t o pe ople where they had b een .I t t s p oss ib le t h a t I might be a b l e to f i n d o u t , without going t o

S ~ d t But I d l e f t i t a lone f o r so mebody w i t h some a u t h o r i t y tot a l k to him. I m j u s t a r epo r t e r . He c an t e l l me t o go t o h e l l andt h a t s a l l And probab ly would.

HOWLETT: What about , I be l i eve i t was Cora Fredrickson--was the l a d y t h a t h i tt h e Ambassador?

l ~ c C O R M I C KYeah. Yeah.

HOWLETT: Did h e r name o r any a s s o c i a t i on come up?

McCORMICK: No, not to my knowledge, b u t o f course , t h e y cou ld b e connected andI n o t know i t e c ~ eI haven t t a l k e d w i t h any o f th e s e people d i r e c t l y .

HOWLETT: But as ~ r as you know r i gh t n o w ~t h e y a r e not a s soc ia t ed?

McCORMICK: T h a t s r i g h t . But I do f e e l t h a t Schmidt engineered t h i s t h i n g , wi t hS t e v e nson, and I am pos i t i ve t h a t he engineered the adver t i sement



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t h a t was pu t i n the p a p e r. Now i f he had any con..Tlection with thel i t t l e handb i l l , Wanted f o r Treason handb i l l , o r ·H·he·ther he hadany connect ion wi th t h e s e peop le t h a t Here charged with t h e s e o f -f e n s e s ~I dont t know. I d o n t know. I have a spy i n the John B i r c hS o c i e t y. They ve s o r t a broken up i n t o s o r t o f c e l l s , l i k e Communistsl >..ave. They d o n t have one b i g meet ing excep t when Halsh o r somebodyi n the Birch S o c i e t y comes h e r e , bu t t h i s person does- - these names ·mean nothing 1 a s f a r a s the B i r c h S o c i e t y i s concerned.

HOWLETI': ny o f these names, Schmidt and a l l o f them d o n t come in to theBirch Society?

HcCOR.'UCK: No, I c a n t t r a c e them i n t h e r e a t a l l . . But they might be long toano ther Chapter o r Ce l l o r whatever i n the h e l l you c a l l i t , o the rthan one t h a t my informant works i n . And t h i s person a l s o t a k e s t h eD a i l y Harker and I v e k e p t u w i t h t h e Dai ly iTorker s accounts ont h i s a s s a s s i n a t i o n t h i n g and the Ruby t h ing . But cannot f i n dwhere they a r e connected otherwise , b u t I am-- the only t h i n g Pmp o s i t i v e o f i s t ha t Schmidt t r i e d his b e s t to g e t t h i s group o fYouths f o r Freedom, o r whatever the h e l l i t was, to demonstra te a tt h e Stevenson meet ing and know he i s t h e man beh ind t h e a d v e r t i s e -ment i n the p a p e r. Of t h a t I am sure and I t h i n k t h a t he might b ea source o f good in fo rmat ion i f he could b e . i n some way made t o t a l k .

H O v l L t . ~ : H e l l no-w your informant t h a t you make re fe rence t o i n the John B i r c hSocie ty- -d id he , i n advance, give you any warning o f the Stevensoni n c i d e n t ? I mean was t h e r e a n y t h i n g t h a ·t t h e John Birch Socie ty

( i n t e r rup t i on )?1 c C O R M . . I C K ::Uo t h a t connec t ion made subsequen t to the Stevenson a f f a i r . n

f a c t d i d n t make t h e connect ion u n t i l a f t e r t h e Kennedy a s s a s s i n a t i o n .

HOvlLETI : So t h i s informant i s r e c e n t ( i n t e r rup t i on )?

McCORMICK: Yes, t h a t s r i g h t .

HOWLETT: Did you t a l k t o him abou t t h i s a s p e c t o f t h e t h i n g to see ( i n t e r r u p t i o n ) ?

1-1cCOR.\1ICK: Oh, yeah . I taU:ed t o him abou t a l l o f t h i s m a t e r i a l t h a t I v e t a l k e dabou t h e r e , and I got no response . This i s a smal l group t h e y meet with

and i t could w e l l be they were connected with i t . I t might b e w i t hanother grou,P, because they don t have any mass meetings . There a r eprobab ly 10 or l 2 t h a t go to t h i s meet ing t h a t t h i s p e r s o n goes t o .

HOvlLETI : ·T e l l no-w i s ·t h i s person t h a t you make re fe rence t o i s he . a sympa th ize rwith them o r i s he j u s t i n t h e r e t o see what i s going on?



PAGE 11 o f 12 PAGES

· NcCORNICK : H e l l , t h i s person began as a s o r t o f a sympathizer, bu t became exceedin gl y d i s gus ted b y t h e v i l d mate r i a l t ha t t h e y a r e pu t t i ng ou t , nd

t h i s person i s a l so v e r y c lose to yJ'alker General l l ~ e r and i s f r eg_uently a t the \-Talker horne, where be has h i s off i ce too .

HOHLETI' : He l l , i s t h i s person t h a t you a r e making re fe rence t o , i s he going t os t a y i n the John Birch Socie ty and con t inue h i s connect ions w i t h'Ha..lker?

lvlcCOffiUCK: Yeah.. Yeah.

n the f u tu r e , i f anything should came up , a meet ing, a r a l l y, o r anyt h i n g o f t h i s n a t u r e , do you th ink t h a t he would l e t ·you know i f Halkero r i f t he John Birch Soc ie ty i s plann ing any events?

NcCOR.loflCK : Oh, y e s . Yeah . Yeah .

HOWI.E'IT: And shoUld t h e Pres ident , F i r s t Lady, o r the fu ture Vice P r e s i d e n t o ranyone b e i n D a l l a s , o.nd t h e r e was something planned through the i·Talkergroup, o r through t h e John Birch Soc ie ty group, o r ny group t h a t t h i sperson h d c o n t a c t wi th , do you f e e l t h a t he would l e t you know?

M.cCOIU.UCK: Oh, y e s . I m sure o f i t .

And, wouJ.d you i n t u r n pass t h i s on t o us?.

1>- cCORMICK: Oh, you b e t your f e e t I would Yes.

HOWLET.r : Very g ood.

NcCO:&'UCK: I cculd.n 1 t g e t here f a s t enough to l e t you know . And t:b..at, r e ga rd l e s so f who became Pres iden t , i f i t was, o r what s o r t o f demonstra t ion t h e ymight make fo r o r aga in s t anybody, I would l e t you know immediate ly.

HOWI.ET:r : Ver"''J good . We c e r t a i n l y .would a p p r e c i a t e i t , Hr. ltlcCormick_, i f you vrould_,should t h i s ever a r i s e . Nm• i s t h e r e any th ing e l s e t h a t you can t h inko f i n connect ion w i t h t h e advertisement_, t h e h a n d b i l l , o r anyth ing t h a tyou've uncovered with Oswald t h a t we haven ' t discussed here today?

NcCORMICK: No, I d o n t b e l i e v e so . Perhaps_, I v e gone too f a r , I d o n t kno,.,, i n

t a l k ing about t h i s Oswald th ing , bu t i t s been a ques t ion t h a t s plaguedme ever s ince i t s t a r t e d .

HOtlLE'IT: Well 1 o f course_, Mr. McCormick, i f you have t h e ques t ion 7 o the r peop lehave the same ques t ion , o r t he r e would be same o t h e r people , and wea r e i n t e r e s t e d i n what you and what o t h e r peop le t h ink abou t i t .

NcCORHICK: You know, t h e r e was a r epo r t i n a paper - - t h e Times Herald.1 no t i n ourpape r- - t ha t Oswald had rece ived some money by Hes te rn Union. I don 1 t



H<Ytii.Err:

P GE l o : f - 2 P GES

b e l i e v e t h a t happened. I d o n t be l i eve t happened . But i f t d id t ·\vou l d be very i n t e r e s t i n g t o know where t ha t m n e y came from .

Yes s i r . Is t h e r e anything e l s e tha·t you can th ink o f? .

NcCORHICK: No, I d o n t be l i eve so . f t h e r e i s , I w i l l g ive you a r ing a f t e rI t h ink t over, b u t I m sure t h a t P v e given you every th ing I bad,because I t r i e d to vrri t e t down on t h i s record fo r my o f f i c e andI b e l i e v e t h a t s t h e crop .

HOWLETT: O . K . vlr. McCormick we c e r t a i n l y do t ha nk you 1 s i r .

McCORNICK: You b e t . Good t o see yo u .

END OF INTERVIDf

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CENTRAL. iNTELLIGENCE .AGENCY__ :·

WASHINGTON 25. D.C

. . . • :'

-.. · ·-· -;... ..... .. . . . . . · · ..· : · ... 3 a NOV- 196J., ·· ~ - • • - 4, -:-· ·· .

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. _· . -. .· : - - ' ~ 0 -

1. . l t taehed i s m a r t i c l e Wi c h appeal"ed on page .2 o f t h e 29lcrnmber 1963 i ssue ot the Washin:r.t(Jil D.tily News. TM ar t i c leecmta1na intcrmati.on vb:ich implies t h a t two persons might b a wbeen i n ~ l n d1n t.bAt usa .ss ina t icn o Pres ident lenn.edy. Accordingto the a r t i c l e , two men bad 'been 1nvo1Ted 1 n plaei.ng an achertisementi l l he Dallas Hol"'nin:; New. Set. i n s ide o a black border the · t u l l -

page ali appeare<i on tOO ciay o t t.he Pres ident ' .s .aesassina.tion andleT.Led a w.riet : r o f chargee aga.i.nst tb.e Pres ident . The a d , aeaording~ tbe W a s h i n ~ o nDa.ilr Ne->.rs, vas s igned bj" a.aerna.rd iiEISSl".Ali,the .American i 'act-t"iooi ng; Carm itt.ee, an Una.tfil.i.ated and Jion•Par t i san Oraup o t Citizens Who WUh ' t ru th , P. o . Box 1792 1 Dallas . •

: - l~ ::.·-::;:. ,. 2. 'bll Was.hil:u ton Ddl:or Newe u t . i c l s ·also states that the.· :_:.·-.. :·_>:.- .-. N l ~ •ad vlnch presumably cost- $12$0.00 was placed. by WEISSMAllt

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INDEPENDENT RESE RCH6 BLEECKER STREET. NEW YOR CITY 10012 . PHONE · SSOCI TES

· · AJ WEBERMAN (212) 477·62 43

(-OJ I A f C

(/f J/(//I d -1 D c_

.JUN 6 - 1978

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UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

F E D E R A L BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Mr. Alan J . Weberman6 B l e e c k e r S t r e e t

WASHINGTON , D .C . 20535

Augus t 3 1978

ew York ew York 10012

Dear Mr. Weberman:

Refe rence i s made t o your Freedom o f I n f o r m a t i o n -

P r i v a c y Acts FOIPA} r e q u e s t f o r a s p e c i f i c document p e r t a i n i n g

t o t h e A s s a s s i n a t i o n o f P r e s i d e n t John F. Kennedy. The

document you r e q u e s t e d i s e n c l o s e d w i t h no e x c i s i o n s and

a t no c h a rg e .

Enc losu re

S i n c e r e l y y o u r s

~ M t i ~ J Y S ; #Freedom o f I n f o r m a t i o n -P r i v a c y Acts Branch

_Records Managem e n t D i v i s i o n



. .. . . . . . - - - ~ . . .• _ ~ --t.r:itttD sTATES GOV£1lP ' NT

· ·' e m o r a n ~ u m

.. : . .. :W. c. B u l ~' now :.Jr. A. ~ a n

1 - Bel..onte ' l - S u l 1 i ~ a·· 1l - Rosen· · 1 - Branigan

1 - Turner1 - Stewart

DATE: 12-6-63

~

n . . . . - . . . . , ~ -

u ... - - ; . ~T ~ -T - ~ ; . . . _T-» . - -Ho M._.....,.__

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~SUBJECT: LEE HARVEY OSWALD

18 - B

' , ) A highly c r i t i c a l f u l l page ad cos t ing $1463 a p p e a r \ the Dallas Morning Mews on the aorning o f 11-22-63 e n t i t l e d 1 ' ~

"Welcome, Mr. Kennedy to Dallas which was signed by t he AmericaFact Finding Committee, Bernard Weissman, Chairman, P. o. Box 1792,Dal las 21 , Texas. This a r t i c l e brought grea t p u b l i ~ ~ n d i g n a t 1 oand prompted aevera l newspaper a r t i c l e s a s wel l as an inqui ry t romColigressm.an Bernard F . Grabowski (D-Conn) who described i t as vic ious ,

·. \ c r u e l and one which employed the type o f verl :dap which tends t oi n c i t e f ana t i c s . This a r t i c l e was in t he form o f a pub l i cquest ionnaire to Pres ident Kennedy l i s t i n g 12 quest ions concerning ·pr1ncip ~ Y : f o ~ e ~ g np o l i ~- : t ~ e r s ~. .- ~ . --r-f.XU SL 1 , . • I r . 1 , f_ < : J : • 1 . , , _ r •- .

(

_ .. s t i g a t ealed t h i s a r t i c l e was prepared 11z

\

Lar r B . chmid ~ a l l a sTexas, insurance salesma-n. and j ) y .~ ~ e R hP. r ~ n n a n ,Dil:fas l n ~ e nde t Who are-ooth memDerso f i rch Soc e he mon£1. cordiqg-·c , was so i c i ed Y Y Grinnan from- U . . . d . o J l ~ np r o m . 1 t ~ » . : l ~ f lb u s i n e s s m e n ~B e r n a r a ~ m a nt ~ e s igner o f the ad, i s a f r i end o f

·· · 'SChmidt w ~ o mbe ae t while i n the u.s. Army and i t was d e c i d ~ dt o useWeissman's name on the ad for purpose o f counteract ing ant i -Semitismcharges which bad been d i r ec t ed aga ins t the conservat ives . The

lAmerican Fact Fin4ing Committee was simply a name ae lec ted by Schaidtfo r use in the ad and there i s no such organiza t ion . Schmidt, who i e

: ~ , descr ibed as a conserva t ive , ·. f e l t no demonstration should b e given· • t o a P r 4 ~ i d e n tbut he f e l t some type o f ac t iv i ty should i nd ica t e

d i s a p p r ~ a lof Pres ident Kennedy's po l i c i e s . Schmidt r e f e r r e ~ t o theDallaa . l'imes Herald., a r t i c l e o f 10-27-63 which r e fe r r ed 1;o a

demonstration a t Dallas when United Nations Ambassador Stevenson wasi n » a l l a s recent ly. The a r t i c l e i den t i f i ed Schmidt as the ~ ~ a d e ~ ' ~ }1 4 c o l l ~ g es tudents who were demonstrating opposit ioq. .co : ·.stevenson .and t h e~ U n i t e d ~ons . Schmidt bas been i den t i f i ed i s a c losef r iend o f Warre a r r o l l , a w r i t e r ~ rLi te L i n e , an en te rp r i se

Jo n t ~ l e d

by H . • Hunt, a weal hy Dal las o i l man. Bunt very poss ib lyi s one o f the cont r ibu tors to tlie .. funds needed for the ad. 8ch•(d tdenied aay organiza t ion backed thiep a d . . .....U.RPJ

WDS:ahw j \ ~ ~ ~- ~= o ~ A ; ~ - / 0 0 0 6 } . . : .o r

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Bernard WeiaJDan born 11-1 -37 , and William lli . l ton1Burle) -

7-6-35i and had been advised by Schmidt t ha t a l a rge c o n s e r v a t i v ~- -

lborn 7-17-35, were fo r. e r Arwzy assoc ia tes of Larr ie Schaidt , b o r ~ J/o

group o f A.erican businessmen who opposed the l i b e r a l e l eaeo t i nu.s. Government were located in Dallas . Schmidt urged Weissman andBurley to contact him a t Dallas . Both were recent ly separated fromthe u. B. Army and ar r ived in Dallas 11-3-63 taking employment l oca l ly.Approziaately 10 days a f t e r t h e i r a r r iva l , Schmidt recru i ted them • •aem.bers o f the JBS Both Weissman and Burley were interviewed 1.2-5-63and aubstant ia ted above f ac t s as re la ted by Schmidt. On 11-27-63Weiaaman and Burley l e f t Dallas , and Weissman went t o h ~ s ~ a t h e r s

home in Kt. Vernon Hew York, and Burley jo ined h i s g i r l ~ r i e n dDDenver, Qolorado. Burley r e i t e ra t ed purpose of using Weia 'aD & M was t o show other conservatives t h a t Jews were i n t e r ea t ed ~ D · ·

conservative .avement, as Grinnan f e l t 'too aaay conservatives wereant i -Jewish and Weissman'• s igna ture would help a t ea ant i -Jewishfee l ing .

IOur invest igat ion ~ a i l sto show any re la t ionsh ip concern

the placement __of the above ad t o Lee Harvey Oswald 9 r Jack B u b y ~.Areview of Bufiles f a i l s to revea l any iden t i f iab le secur i ty datar e l a t i n g to Larr ie Schmidt, Joseph Grinnan, Bernard Weissaan o rWilliam l l i l ton Burley. .

. .

BECOMKENDATION:- - - - - ~ ~- . -

.- ·.- -· - - ~ . . ; . . - ~

- - - · ~ ·-- ---- _____

Invest igat ion conducted ahows t h a t Weissman and Burleywere sere ly t oo l s . This ad was wri t ten by Schmidt and Grlnnanboth JBS ~ m b e r s .Funds for the en te rpr i se came from an unident i f i edgroup of well-to-do Dallas businessmen, Ro known connection with ~ h e

placing of t h i s ad and Lee Harvey Oswald o r Jack Ruby was developed.In view of the f indings , there i a ~ oaed o pursue -the ~ n v e a t i g a t io t h i s a a t t e r fur ther. . ~ · ·

.. . t·k, · I .

Attached l s a t e le type _t o Da l a s ~ 1 Paso, ~ q v e r ,Bew York,Cleveland, Tampa and Charlotte advising these off ices ' to discont inuefu r the r inqui r ies concerning t h i s pa r t i cu l a r a a t t e r. ~ I V - t

'lt#JJ / v ~u)? foi; :j / ·~ ~ · / ~ > C?• .. . .~ ~

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. . . .. . _ _ ~ ...

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RE PRODU C ED AT TH E NATIONA L R H V E S· · ~·~ ~ · ~ ~ ~ ~ - - - - - - - · - - - - - - - - ~ ~~ 4 :- .. .. r u l..ao ' Nc:oa; O I l . N c . v • 11111"W S H I N G TON ~ · O . c . ~

-L O u r i n fo rma t ion i n d i c a t e s th a t BU R L EY h a d con t ac t withpe r s o n s wnose a c t i v i t i e s s e e m to n a v e b<:en que:-st i onabJe . T h t · s epe r s o n s a r e shown in ou r f i l e s to be

a . fnu BA B I NG TO N, a B r i t i sh so ld ic r and h i s

G e r m a n w 1fe I r ene . T h e B A B I N G T O N ' s rt: o r t e d ~ ·l e f t B e n g h a z i s o m e t i m e af te r M a r ch 1958.

b . H ei n z K O L I E CJ i i K _o _ K O L I E ClSK I (phon e t i c ).He w as _a_ ; - ; ; ~ m a nnat iona l , bo r n c i r c a 1913-1918. Jn1958 he w a s emp loyed a s an e n g i n e e r b y P o s t s andT elccomm .. lni c a t i o n s i n B e n g h a z i . H i s wife, who s

ab o u t f ive y e a r s o l d e r tnan he r husband , was an E n g l i s h -w o m a n em p l oy e d a t t h e N F I s h op in Benghaz i .

. J . O u r f il e s r e v e a l tha t y o u r B u r e a u h a s f o rwa rded t o t h i soff ice a r e p o r t da t ed · 56 r e a r e d b m e s P .W oo t e n (A ) , e n t i t le ( S I C

P age 16 o f t ha t r e p o r t c o n t a i n e d e r r : ~r d ~ E l S S M A N ,__...

Do l n i P o d luzi C. 48 on whose o r d e r $3 . 00 d r a wn fo r one R o b e r tKOB L E R , 1 792 So u th .R.obe..rtson B l v d . L o s Ange l e s , 35 , Cal i f .T h .e d ~ t ec i t e d was 17 O c t o b e r 1956.

6 . The above i n fo rma t ion i s p rov ided a s a rt>sult o a p r e -l i m i n a r y check o f o u r r eco r d s . T h e r e c o r d s of t h i s off ice c o n t a i nn o addi t iona l i n fo rma t ion which a t th i s t i m e c a n be i dent i f i ed a s

pe r t a i ning to the p e r s ons who m i g ht be i d e n t i c a l wit h the m e n whop l a c e d the n e w s p a p e r ad, o r to p e r s o n s who m i g h t have been inco n t a c t \Vith them .

CSC I - u nnumbered

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