Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Ted'Ground'of'Rising'Star,'Texas 675 16660
This'board'was'created'to'
discuss'the'solutions'for'this'
Challenge Discuss'the'solutions'for'this'Challenge' 8/6/10'11:10 8/6/10'11:10
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 675 33893
PreOInternship'Orientation:'
Housing
'One'thing'that'I'm'sure'would'be'appreciated'by'interns'and'coOops'
when'creating'this'space'is'information'on'housing.'I'know'JSC'has/had'a'coO
op'board'that'helped'students'get'housing'with'employees.'KSC'has'a'forum'
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 17089 NASA'"InternSpace"
One'thing'many'types'of'systems'try'to'do'is'a'little'too'much.'This'makes'
such'areas'into'another'"Satern"'as'opposed'to'making'the'
process'easier.'Make'sure'to'clearly'define'what'this'"space"'is'
really'trying'to'achieve'and'scope'it'accordingly.
The'truth'is'there'is'little'possibility'in'making'the'onOboarding'process'
less'burdensome.'There'is'a'lot'of'paperwork'involved'in'working'for'the'
government'and'in'my'ten'years'the'paperwork'has'gotten'much'worse.'One'
area'this'type'of'activity'could'really'shine'is'to'provide'a'spot'in'cyberspace'
for'interns'to'post'the'work'they'have'done.'As'mentioned'in'your'
annoucement'O'there'have'been'thousands'of'interns.'Some'have'done'
compelling'work'and'yet'I'have'no'idea'where'to'find'their'work.'Since'their'
assignments'are'often'short'term'it'would'be'great'to'have'an'online'space'
that'would'allow'them'to'post'the'work'they'have'done'and'possible'next'
steps'in'case'a'future'intern'would'like'to'continue'the'work.'This'way,'
several'interns'across'several'centers'over'several'years'can'contribute'to'a'
larger'longOterm'project'rather'than'simple'short'term'fixes.'They'may'also'
be'able'to'help'each'other'across'time'and'space'as'they'give'feedback'and'
continue'the'dialog'going.
This'is'a'true'need'that'hasn't'really'been'addressed,'but'can'be'done'
and'needed.'It'would'also'allow'their'the'work'of'interns'to'be'viewed'by'a'
larger'NASA'audience'and'last'for'longer'than'a'poster'presentation'many'do'
now.
8/9/10'13:54 8/9/10'13:54
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 16744
InternSpace'University'
Database
As'a'third'semester'NASA coOop,'I'have'met'many'interns'who'
have'come'through'both'Stennis'Space'Center'and'Marshall.'Many'have'
been'a'part'of'USRP,'MSGR'(at'Marshall),'Propulsion/Robotics'Academies,'
and even'high'school'groups.'While'NASA certainly has'
an'outstanding'resume'full'of human'and'unmanned'space'
exploration'missions,'not'many'young'students'really'know'
what NASA,'on'the'Center'level, does'(from'a'technical'
standpoint).'Coupling'this'with'students'who'might'not'know'
what they'want'to'do'in'a'career'causes headaches. It'
would'be'helpful,'like'posted'below,'to'distribute students'work'
online'outside'of'the'NASA firewall. While'many'students'work'
on'sensitive/SBU/ITAR'information,'I'do'believe'it would'be'easy'for'
students'to'"clean'up"'their'work so the'public'
can see. At'Marshall,'students'write'Abstracts'that'are'used'for'
their'final'papers.'This'would'be'a'great'tool'for'explaining'the'type'of'work'
each'NASA Center'does'without'spouting'sensitive'information.'For'
an incoming'student'wanting'to'apply'to'an'internship,'they'
could then find'out what'each'NASA'Center'does'in'
contributing'to the'NASA'objective.
As'a'coOop, I have'been'given'the incredible'
opportunity'to'network'with many'knowledgeable'professionals'on'
the'job.'I'have'built'a'solid'technical foundation'of'people'that'are'
well'versed'in different'areas'around'Marshall.'I'think'as'a'young'
student'in'a'student'program,'networking is just'as'important'
as developing'academically.'I'would'love'to'see'a'forum'or'web'site'
that'could reach out'to'other'NASA'Centers via'some'sort'
of'database.'In'particular,'it'would'be'very'helpful'if'you'could'search'by'
University.'I find'that'established'professionals'at'NASA' 8/9/10'14:29 9/2/10'21:37
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 17751 "InternSpace"
I'assume'each'person's'profile'(intern,'mentor,'etc)'will'have'fields''for'
universities'attended'(may'be'several'for'those'with'BS,'MS,'PhDs),''Degrees'
Attained,'Degreen'in'Progress,'Technical'Interests,'Current''Center,'Previous'
Centers,'etc. 'There'should'be'the'capabilitiy'to'do''discussion'forums'
and'live'chats. 'It'would'be'good'for'members'to'be''able'to'create'
groups'based'on'university,'engineering'discipline,''center,'all'interns,'all'
mentors,'all'managers,'maybe'one'for'HR'and''Education,'etc. 'All,'of'
course,'would'belong'to'the'general'group'at''large'and'could'then'belong'to'
specific'groups'as'well. 'There'will'need''to'be'a'group'creator'that'
manages'membership'as'some'groups'will'need''to'check'credentials'before'
acceptance'(example,'mentor,'manager,''etc.). 'Then'folks'can'post'
the'the'relevant'specific'group'for'which''they'have'membership'that'could'
help'them'with'their'question. 'Question''between'groups'would'be'
posted'to'the'group'at'large. 'There'needs'to''be'an'alumni'section'so'
that'students'can'stay'in'touch'and'get'info''even'after'they'leave'
NASA. 'Longitudinal'data'is'always'challenging'to''get'and'all'tools'
should'incorporate'ways'to'keep'in'touch'to'see'if'the''
NASA internship'was 'effective'in'keeping''students'within'the'
Space'Industry'STEM'fields'or'academia. 'I'agree''with'previous'posts'
that'the'students'(and'mentors'for'that'matter)''should'be'able'to'post'an'
ITAR'compliant'summary'of'the'projects'they''are'involved'in. 'It'
would'be'good'to'have'a'robust'search'capability'so''that'folks'can'see'all'
interested'in'a'specific'topic,'all'from'a''university,'all'from'a'specific'center,'
look'up'specific'folks,'etc.
Another''suggestion'is'that'there'be'a'public'and'private'side'to'this'
site. ''This'way,'potential'interns'might'be'able'to'get'information'
regarding''what'the'internship'experience'is'like'or'maybe'even'ask'
questions. ''Suggestion'OO'the'NASA Ambassors'(an'existing' 8/9/10'16:16 8/10/10'15:23
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 18310 RE:"InternSpace"
This'is'an'excellent'idea.'I have'been'recently'converted'from'a'coO
op'to'a'civil'servant,'but'I'do'not'mind'helping'with'suggestions'for'this'
project.'Since'I'am'not'from'the'Celveland'area,'it'took'me'eight'miserable'
months'of'not'meeting'people'due'to'the'aging'workforce.'I'have'helped'
create'some'documents'at'our'center'for'new'coOops'or'interns'regarding'
things'to'do'at'the'center,'clubs'(we'have'a'developing'professionals'club'
that'I'also'helped'with),'and'how'to'sign'up'for'listservs.'I'think'it'is'a'little'
easier'for'students'now'that'they'receive'this'information'on'their'first'day,'
but'it'can'still'be'vastly'improved.'
As'for'getting'Center's'to'update'their'lists,'I'believe'GRC'has'just'recently'
updated'their'lists.'I also'want'to'point'out'that'I attended'a'
work'group'a'few'weeks'back,'where'i'met'a'young'person'close'to'my'age'
that'does'similar'tasks'as'me.'It'is'nice'now'because'we'are'able'to'dicsuss'
similarities'and'differences'between'our'two'center's'operations.
Also,'as'some'of'you'may'agree'or'disagree,'sometimes'CoOops'and'
interns'are'placed'in'organizations'that'do'not'really'give'them'work'until'
they'prove'themselves.'This'would'be'an'excellent'tool'to'research'what'
NASA'is'about'when'they'are'first'getting'started'and'access'to'all'their'
systems.'
8/10/10'15:23 8/10/10'15:23
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 18566 PreOIntern'Orientation
My'idea'would'be'to'have'a'system'similar'to'SATERN'where'there'is'an'
orientation'packet'for'anyone'coming'to'any'of'the'NASA'Centers.'It'could'be'
in'the'current'SATERN'format'where'the'intern'browses'through'an'
orientation'on'where'the'center'is'located,'what'the'main'purpose'of'the'
center'is,'rule'book'on'what'the'rules'are'for'being'a'NASA employee,'
how'to'look'for'a'place'to'live,'maps'of'the'area'and'center,'what'forms'of'
ID's'they'need'to'bring,'etc. 'This'could'also'be'used'for'one'center's'
employees'to'have'when'they'visit'another'center. 'Most'HR'
departments'have'something'like'this'for'new'employees,'so'it'would'be'
easy'to'put'this'stuff'in'SATERN'for'easy'access'and'could'be'used'as'part'of'
the'intern's'learning'plan.
Most'interns'get'into'trouble'because'they'do'not'understand'how'
working'for'the'government'is'different'from'working'in'industry. 'The'
rules'are'different,'things'do'not'happen'quickly,'paperwork'has'to'be'filed,'
etc.'If'this'preOorientation'could'be'made'in'such'a'way'that'the'interns'and'
new'hires'understand'that'working'for'the'government'is'a'different'
ballgame,'I'think'that'they'will'be'able'to'hit'the'ground'running'a'lot'sooner'
and'be'able'to'work'within'the'existing'system. 'This'could'also'be'
used'for'new'contractors'as'well. 'It'should'be'a'requirement'before'
they'get'their'badge. 'A'portion'of'SATERN could'be'opened'up'
to'the'Internet'and'the'potential'employee'could'be'given'a'temporary'
userid'and'password'to'get'in. 'It'would'be'one'repository'to'get'
access'to'anything'a'new'hire'would'need.
8/13/10'17:34 8/13/10'17:34
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 18634 InternSpace
At'KSC when'a'student'accepts'an'internship'we'send'them'a'
welcome'letter'with'a'link'to'our'PreOOrientation'page'(you'can'visit'it'
at: 'http://education.ksc.nasa.gov/orientation/index.htm). 'This'
is'a'"hidden"'site'O'not'searchable'O'you'can'only'find'it'if'you're'
given'the'link'O'that'keeps'folks'that'don't'need'all'the'info'from'getting'to'
it. 'This'site'provides'lots'of'info'that'is'important'for'students'to'know'
before'they'come'to'KSC. 'Also,'we'have'set'up'a'Facebook'site'that'
we'use'to'remind'the'interns'of'enrichment'activities'and'other'events'
throughout'the'internship'semester. '
8/17/10'9:39 8/17/10'9:39
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 17565
Choice'of'Software'Package'OO'
Wiki'OO
For'your'software'package'at'the'core'of'your'InternSpace,'I'strongly'
recommend'that'you'use'of'a'generic'Wiki'while'shunning'Blog'and'bulletin'
board'packages. With'a'generic'Wiki'you'get'(free'for'
nothing):
''''A'powerful,'technical'friendly'editor
''''The'ability'to'put'graphics'right'in'the'entries
''''The'ability'to'crossOreference'entries'within'the'space
''''The'ability'to'organize'material'in'a'logical'outline'form
''''A'powerful'internal'search'engine
''''The'ability'to'group'entries'into'categories
8/20/10'9:27 9/2/10'22:22
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 18830 iPhone'and'Droid'App
I'believe'this'should'be'made'into'an'iPhone'and'Droid'app. 'Most'
interns'and'mentors'have'some'type'of'database. 'This'would'allow'
them'to'access'the'checklists,'documents,'and'social'networking'tools'on'the'
go. 'Apps'can'be'created'faily'inexpensively. 'NonOprivate'
communication'could'be'via'a'facebook'page'or'similar. 'It'would'have'
to'be'looked'at'however'at'the'legality'of'using'an'existing'social'networking'
platform'to'perform'social'communication. 'The'official'
communication'however'could'be'via'an'app'that'is'created'and'could'even'
be'secured'if'required'using'security'platforms'used'by'banks'and'budget'
software'built'into'the'app. 'You'may'have'to'build'separate'apps'for'
iPhone,'Droid'and'Blackberry. 'This'type'of'communication'is'taking'
over'social'networking'and'is'quickly'becoming'the'preferred'method'of'
social'networking'because'of'the'convience'of'being'able'to'check'and'
recieve'pushed'updates'all'the'time'and'everywhere.
8/23/10'15:27 8/23/10'15:27
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 19228 'PreOInternship'Orientation
If'I'understand'this'Social'Media'concept'correctly'the'proposed'solution'
will'require:
''''Pubic'access
''''Ability'to'register'new'members'from'this'public'resource
''''Secured'information'links'to'back'end'networks'and'resources'via'
https
''''Reporting'capabilities
Will'there'also'be'a'requirement'for'access'via'smart'phones'or'other'
requirements'that'have'not'yet'been'specifically'addressed?
8/23/10'16:47 8/23/10'16:47
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 17615
Intern'Social'Media'site'
suggestions
Please'see'attached,'thanks.
8/24/10'8:07 8/24/10'8:07
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 21417
NASAOsocial'media'site'
thoughts
please'see'attached'file.
8/25/10'9:11 8/25/10'9:11
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 19115
RE:InternSpace'University'
Database
Quote'from'Granger,'Scott'C.'(MSFCOEV92)':'"it'would'be'
very'helpful'if'you'could'search'by'University.'"
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
394 Creating'NASA'“InternSpace" 676 19115
InternSpace'Ideas'(all'four'
topic'areas)
RE:Choice'of'Software'Package'O
O'Wiki'OO
There'may'be'wiki'software'that'already'exists'and'is'preferred'by'the'
OCIOs'at'multiple'centers.' If'there'is'something'that's'used'by'
mulitple'centers'(TWiki, ProtoWiki,'etc)'then'porting'the'InternSpace'
to'the'other'centers'after'the'Ames'pilot'is'complete'should'be'easier. '
Gathering'the'data'on'what'wiki'softwares'are'used'where'and'their'pros'
and'cons'would'likely'be'useful'information'in'and'of'itself'too. 'Could'
be'a'good'student'project'frankly.
9/2/10'22:22 9/2/10'22:22
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 677 16663
This'board'was'created'to'
discuss'the'solutions'for'this'
Challenge Discuss'the'solutions'for'this'Challenge' 8/6/10'11:34 8/6/10'11:34
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 16663
Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution Please'discuss'this'Challenge'here 8/6/10'11:34 8/6/10'11:34
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 19958
Camera'problem'on'rough'
terrain
My'idea'would'be'to'have'the'camera'would'be'releaseable'controlled'by'
lanyard'cables 'on'a'motorized'stabalizer.'The'camera'would'be'
floating'above'the'rover.'When'the'rover'went'over'a'bumpy'surface'the'
camera'would'be'pulled'down'to'rest'on'a'thick'gel'like'base'that'would'
minimize'the'camera'motion'caused'by'the'rocky'or'bumpy'surface.'The'Gel'
above'the rover'would'be'a'secondary'shock'absorber,'otherwise'the'
camera'would'be'free'floating'in'space'controlled'by'4'rods'that'could'also'
stabalize'the'camera'with'small'robotic'motors,'puling'left'and'right,'up'and'
down.
8/23/10'16:51 8/27/10'3:11
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 17703
Adapt'Real'Time'Obstacle'
Detection'Hardware/Software
Providing'a'combination'of'LIDARs'(Laser'Radars),'Stereo'Cameras'and'
GPS'with'IMUs'(gyros'and'accelerometers)'facing'forward'and'aft'should'
provide'complete'coverage'as'this'was'used'to'navigate'during'DARPAs'
grand'challenge'and'adjust'and'stabilize'movement'of'the'
sensors/cameras. 'Combining'the'data'at'different'positions/time'
would'help'resolution.
Links'to'the'equipment'and'technology'provided'below.
Providing'the'topology'ahead'of'time'would'aid'obstacle'
detection/mapping
http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/civil/articles/62819.aspx
8/23/10'17:37 8/27/10'3:15
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 18015 different'way.
See'the'chart
8/24/10'12:12 8/24/10'12:12
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 18422
RE:Camera'problem'on'rough'
terrain
I'work'on'the'project'this'relates'to,'so'while'I'm'not'asking'as'the'owner'
(Liza),'I'm'familiar'with'the'problem. 'Do'you'know'if'a'4Oleg'platform'
like'you're'suggesting,'and/or'a'control'system'for'keeping'it'stable,'already'
exists? 'An'extensible'boom'might'be'a'useful'option,'but'creating'the'
hardware'and'software'from'scratch'might'be'a'very'major'development'
project'unto'itself.
8/27/10'3:11 8/27/10'3:11
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 18422
RE:Adapt'Real'Time'Obstacle'
Detection'Hardware/Softwa...
Again,'I'work'on'the'project'this'relates'to,'so'while'I'm'not'asking'as'the'
owner'(Liza),''I'm'familiar'with'the'problem. 'The'performance'of'
these'vehicles'is'outstanding,'but'all'of'them'in'the'references'seem'to'be'
very'large. 'A'Tahoe'or'Prius'puts'a'lot'of'pressure'on'the'ground;'are'
you'aware'of'anything'similar,'but'much'smaller? The'current'
vehicles'are'~'10'kg.
8/27/10'3:15 8/27/10'3:15
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 21793
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'
Platform'for'Land'Survey
'
The'camera'could'detach'from'the'periscope'and'face'down'to'view'
the'soil.'Mirrors'facing'both'forward'and'aft'in'the'head'of'the'periscope'
would'achieve'an'adequate'land'surveying.'Adding'two'more'mirrors'facing'
the'sides'may'give'an'almost'360'view'from'one'camera.'Software'could'
section'the'view'of'each'mirror'from'the'one'picture.'The'periscope'being'
raised'or'lowered'could'be'as'simple'as'a'car'antenna'system.
'The'material'could'be'like'a'track'
covering'tires.
9/8/10'15:44 9/8/10'15:44
395
Low'Impact'Robotic'Sensor'Platform'for'
Land'Survey 678 20142 price'range?
'What'price'range'should'the'complete'sensor'&'vehicle'package'be'
within?
'
'A'helicopter'with'about'5kg'useful'payload'carrying'downwardOlooking'highO
def'cameras'and'GPS'could'be'built'for'about'$3,500.' I'm'
working'on'a'similar'project'involving'a'sensor'package'that'is'easily'
swapped'between'a'rover'and'a'helicopter.' Of'course'the'logistical'
overhead'with'operating'an'airborne'platform'is'higher.
9/17/10'18:27 9/17/10'18:27
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 679 16664
This'board'was'created'to'
discuss'the'solutions'for'this'
Challenge Discuss'the'solutions'for'this'Challenge' 8/6/10'11:43 8/6/10'11:43
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 16664
Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution Please'discuss'this'Challenge'here 8/6/10'11:43 8/6/10'11:43
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 17466
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'
Velocity'and'Size
Hve'you'thought'about'a'Phase'Doppler'Particle'Analyzer?'It'is'commonly'
used'for'measurements'in'liquid'sprays'of'particle'sizes'and'velocities.
8/9/10'14:10 8/9/10'14:10
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 17536
Solution'for'Detecting'Airborne'
Particle'Velocity'and'Size
At'GSFC we'have'been'working'on'a'novel'particle'image'
velocimeter'that'does'not'suffer'from'a'small'depth'of'field'like'conventional'
particle'image'velocimeters. 'We'originally'conceived'it'as'a'planetary'
dust'experiment. 'The'basic'physics and'operation'of'the'
device has'been'demonstrated'on'two'different'field'tests'in'
Arizona.
The'device'measures'particle'number'density,'number'of'particles,'
particle'velocity'(both'speed'and'direction),'particle'size'and'for'large'
particles,'particle'shape.
The'device'we'have'currently'constructed'only'measures 2D'
velocities'but'with'another'detector'and'fiber'coupled'light'source'it'could'
measure'3D'velocities. 'Your'particle velocities'would'also'
probably'require a'detector'upgrade.
In'early'2011'we'will'be'lending'the'instrument'to'Boise'State'University'
for'a'particle'dynamics'experiment.
I've'attached'a'tech'sheet'prepared'by'the'Goddard'Technology'
office. 'Let'me'know'if you'would'like'more'information. '
I'have'a'lot'I'could'send'to'you.
8/9/10'14:28 8/9/10'14:28
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 18067 Particle'velocity'and'size
Some'questions:
Should'we'assume'that'this'is'in'vacuum? If'not'what'is'the'
ambient'environment'(thermal,'pressure,'chemistry,'gravitational,'
etc.) '
Can'the'hot'gas'carry'a'charge? 'What'is'chemical'composition'of'
the'gas?'
Are'the'chemical'composition'and'density'of'the'particles'as'described'in'
the'lunar'regolith'simulant'reference?
At 'what'distance'from'the'point'of'gas'impingement,'is'
knowledge'of'the'particle'size'and'distribution'no'longer'of'interest?'
8/9/10'19:23 8/9/10'19:23
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 18078
Laser'Doppler'Velocimeter'for'
particle'size/velocity'measr.
A'laser'doppler'velocimetry'system'consists'of'two'or'more'crossed'laser'
beams,'a'lens'and'a'detector. 'The'laser'beams interference'
make'fringes. 'The'particles pass'through'the fringes'
creating sinuusoidal'bursts'that'can'be'detected'by'the'
detector. 'The'frequency'of'the'burst'measures'the particle'
velocity,'the'intensity'of'the'burst'measures'the'particle'size'
(larger particles'scatter light'more'
efficiently). Accuracies'of'~1'm/s'are'
possible. 'The'trick'would'be'to'orient'the'LDV'system'at'
a'fixed'distance'from'the'impact'and'to'have'a'known'probe'size'(or'an'
aperture'can'limit'the''area''of'the'circumference'being'sampled). '
Suppose'the'probe'volume'size occupied'a'5'degree'arc'segment,'then'
the'total'scattering'would'be'360/5'x'the measured'scattering. '
The probe'volume'(or'a'probe'volume'plus'an'aperture,'to'
get better'spatial resolution)'could'be'moved'to'other'locations,'
for'example'further'from'the'surface,'to measure'trajectories at'
other'locations.
8/9/10'19:54 8/9/10'19:54
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 18015
Survey'flying'particles'using'
multiple'high'speed'cameras
1.o
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 17204
Question'about'Point'of'
Reference'and'suggestions
Are'you'going'to'measure'this'on'earth'(measuring'system'sitting'on'the'
surface),'OR'on'the'moon'(measuring'system'on'a'Lander'approaching'
earth's'moon'OR'other'body)? 'Did'you'take'into'account'the'
difference'in'gravity'and'atmospheric'pressure'at'the'two'locations'in'your'
simulation'(trajectory'changes'with'both)?'
Look'back'at'the'work'done'to'design'the'VIking'lander'rocket'nozzels'(19'
openings'in'each'of'3'thrust'heads'on'the'lander'in'order'to'minimize'the'
disturbance'of'the'surface'on'Mars.)
On'the'earth: 'A'crossed'beam'continuous'(or'pulsed)'laser'
has'been'used'to'measure'velocity'of'small'particles'for'over'30'years. '
The'direction'of'the'particle'could'be'measured'by'recording'pictures'taken'
by'a'laser'pulsed'at'known'intervals'between'them. 'A'2nd'system'at'
right'angles'would'give'you'the'3OD'trajectory. 'The'size'of'each'
particle'could'be'measured'by'the'brightness'of'the'particle'in'the'picture'
(given:'known'albedo'at'that'wavelength). 'It'might'be'possible'to'
determine'particle'shape'by'measuring'the'change'of'brightness'between'
pictures'of'each'particle'tracked. ' Data'retrieval'will'require'
significant'computing'power.'
On'a'moving'platform'landing'on'a'moon'or'other'body: 'The'same'
could'be'used,'but'very'careful'positioning'would'be'needed. 'To'give'
realOtime'data'for'landing'would'require'enormous'computing'power.'
8/15/10'11:23 8/15/10'11:23
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 18747
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'
Velocity'and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas
We'have'been'doing'something'similar'as'a'Space'Radiation'
measurement'project. 'Using'CMOS'image'sensors'we'have'been'
conducting'experiments'to'detect'and'measure'particles'which'result'from'
radiating'Mars'Regolith'and'Lunar'Regolith'with'neutron'and'proton'
beams. 'The'resolution'of'detector'grid'in'this'case'is'on'the'order'of'
5um'in'a'1280'x'1024'array. 'The'velocity'of'the'particles'in'theory'can'
be'determined'by'the'amount'of'energy'that'is'deposited'in'the'individual'
pixels. 'The'path'of'the'particles'are'determined'by'creating'a'stack'of'
4'CMOS'sensors'(see'the'attachment). 'And,'the'size'of'the'particles'
can'be'measured'directly.
This'system'was'created'at'the'Johnson'Space'Center'as'part'of'the'RISA'
project. 'The'hardware'exists'and'could'be'tested'for'this'
purpose. 'The'CMOS'image'sensors'are'inherently'more'resistent'to'
damage'from'radiation'than'other'similar'sensors'such'as'CCDs. 'And,'
they'are'much'lower'cost. 'The'CMOS'sensors'we'have'used'in'this'
design'cost'only'about'$30'each. 'They'interface'to'a'computer'by'way'
of'USB,'and'are'controlled'using'Matlab. 'All'4'image'sensors'are'
synchronized'to'integrate'at'the'same'time. 'No'lenses'are'needed'as'
you'are'measuring'charged'particles'directly. 'Copies'of'this'system'
could'be'built'and'made'available'for'your'project'if'this'would'be'of'
interest.
The'amount'of'data'created'by'this'system'is'significant. 'Each'
image'is'about'1.3Mbyte. 'We'have'been'running'the'system'with'
integration'times'from'0.1'seconds'to'4'seconds,'and'a'wait'time'of'about'
2.5'seconds'in'between'samples. 'It'can'be'run'faster,'but'the'size'of'
the'created'data'files'adds'up'quickly'as'you'can'imagine. 'Both' 8/20/10'13:44 8/20/10'13:44
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 18920 3D'Particle'Image'Velocemetry
2D'Particle'Image'Velocemetry'(PIV)'uses'a'laser,'spread'out'in'a'sheet,'
that'is'used'to'illuminate'a'specific'plane'of'interest,'such'as'a'jet'plume,'and'
is'pulsed'twice'with'a'specific'time'interval.' A'digital'camera'is'set'up'
to'capture'these'two'images'(
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 17565 Study'on'Lunar'Desent'effects
NASA/MSFC'
has'spent'a'considerable'amount'of'effort'developing'a'multiphase,'
noninvasive'mass'flowmeter'for'cryogenic'fluids.'The'resulting'sensor'can'
detect'bubbles'(determine'size/distribution)'in'full'3Odimensional'space.'
Since'the'meter'was'designed'to'operate'in'liquid/gas/solid'environment'the'
technique'would'be'applicable'to'a'hot'gas'flow'and'the'tracking'of'particles'
(position,'size,'velocity,'etc)'at'high'rates.
POC:'Sammy'Nabors'(MSFC)
8/27/10'16:11 8/27/10'16:11
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 23709
Patternator:spray'
characterization'technology
I'm'not'sure'if'the'Patternator'spray'characterization'technology'could'be'
applied'to'this'application,'but'I'offer'it'as'a'possible'solution.'See'the'
attached'presentation'for'details.'One'of'the'employees'from'this'company'
worked'in'my'branch'a'number'of'years'ago.
9/2/10'12:29 9/2/10'12:29
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
396
Method'for'Detecting'Particle'Velocity'
and'Size'in'a'Hot'Gas'Jet 680 17536
Large'Depth'of'Field'Particle'
Image'Velocimeter'Overview
A large'depth'of'field'particle'image'velocimeter'has'been'
developed'at'the'Goddard'Space'Flight'Center'(GSFC) 'that'would'be'a'
fine'solution'to'the'problem'posed.
The'GSFC technology overcomes'the'chief'problem'with'
traditional DopplerObased'approaches which'can'
only measure'particle velocity'along'the'line'of'sight. 'It'
overcomes'the'depth'of'field'problem'encountered'when'using'standard'
microscopy'flow'meters'or'particle'image'velocimeters'through'the'use'
of a'novel'afocal'optical'arrangement. 'And'it'handles'the'
enormous amount'of'particle'trajectory'and'size imagery'
generated'by'offOtheOshelf'flow meters'and'particle'image'
velocimeters'(e.g.,'highOframe'rate'cameras'with'standard'optics'and'active'
light'sources)'through'the'use'of'an'algorithm'
and hardware that'reduces'particle'imagery'into'the'data'of'
interest,'namely: 'particle'speed,'direction,'size,'particle'size'
distribution,'shape'(when'applicable) and'number'density.
For'two'dimensional'measurements,'the'large'depth'of'field'particle'
image'velocimeter'consists'of: ' a'fiber'coupled'laser'diode'light'
source,'a'high'frame'rate'CMOS detector,'an'FPGA'and'a'custom'
afocal'optical'arrangement. 'For'three'dimensional'measurements'a'
duplicate'system'is'used'with'its'optical'axis'perpendicular'to'the'first.
This'technology'was'originally'developed'as'a'planetary'dust'
characterization'experiment'O'primarily'to'measure'dynamic'dust'events'on'
the'Moon'and'Mars. 'It'has'been'successfully'field'tested'in'the' 9/5/10'12:08 9/5/10'12:08
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 681 16667
This'board'was'created'to'
discuss'the'solutions'for'this'
Challenge Discuss'the'solutions'for'this'Challenge' 8/6/10'12:45 8/6/10'12:45
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 16667
Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution Please'discuss'this'Challenge'here 8/6/10'12:45 8/6/10'12:45
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 16779 Best'solution..
The'problem'is'your'assumption:'
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17523 RE:Best'solution..
I'm'inclined'to'agree. 'If'the'political'issue'is'related'to'the'fear'of'a'
launch'accident'(disregarding,'for'the'moment,'the'unfounded'and/or'
irrational'nature'of'such'objection)'and'simply'cannot'be'overcome,'I'would'
suggest'a'reasonable'compromise'could'be'reached'by'having'the'RTG(s)'
launched'by'a'foreign'carrier;'I'suspect'that'there'are'at'least'a'couple'who'
would'be'happy'to'do'so.'
Yes,'I'know'it's'nowhere'near'a'simple'as'that':) 'But'with'such'a'
simple,'elegant'and'effective'option,'it'should'absolutely'remain'in'the'
solution'space.
8/9/10'14:42 8/9/10'14:42
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17545
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'Lunar'
night
Lunar'heat'flow'is'roughly'half'of'earth's. 'Could'the'batteries'and'
susceptable'elactronics'be'buried? 'Even'a'shallow'O'one'meter'or'so'
burial'would'have'significant'benefit. If'the'equipment'can'
be buried'at the bottom'of'a crater,'where'the'
temperature'gradient'would'likely'be'higher,'it'would'likely'be'even'more'
effective.
Contact'Caterpiller'for'marketing'rights!
On'earth'there'is'a'seasonal'and'superimposed'diurnal'variation,'not'sure'
about'the'Moon'with'its'long'nights.
8/9/10'14:42 8/9/10'14:42
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17338 Insulated'box
One'solution'might'be'to'place'the'components'inside'a'light'weight'
super'insulated'box'with'aeorjel'blankets'and'mylar'multylayer'insulation'
which'cam'be'designed'to'eliminate'almost'all 'the'daytime'heating'of'
the'components.'At'night'minimal'heating'from'a'very'low'powered'heater,'
or'the'heat'from'the'electronics'inside'can'maintain'sufficient'
temperature.
If'excess'heat'needs'to'be'removed'from'the'box'use'a'passive'radiator'
placed'in'a'shaded'area'(i.e.'under'the'box)'and'connect'it'with'conductive'
wires'to'a'heat'sink'inside'the'box.'A'passive'bimetalic'switch'can'be'used'to'
thermaly'connec/disconnect'the'heat'sink'at'the'desired'temperature.
8/9/10'14:54 8/9/10'14:54
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 18067
Temperature'Management'
during'the'Lunar'Night
To'add'to'the'phase'change'idea'OO'eutectic'salt'phase'change'media'
technology'used'in'desert'solar'to'steam'power'generating'systems'should'
also'be'able'to'be'tuned'to'the'lunar'environment. 'It'could'store'heat'
during'the'day'that'could'be'later'used'for'night'operations.'See'
http://www.nrel.gov/csp/troughnet/thermal_energy_storage.html'for'an'
example.' The'solar'power'plants'are'often'placed'in'deserts'with'wide'
temperature'ranges'(albeit'not'as'wide'as'the'moon's). 'Phase'change'
media'are'also'used'for'thermal'heat'transfer'in'a'variety'of'industries'and'
cover'the'gamut'of'temperature'ranges'including'molten'salts'that'can'be'
used'at'temperatures'well'beyond'your'region'of'interest'(800C+).'
Using'MLI'and'other'insulation'will'further'reduce'the'size'of'the'
heating/cooling'system'as'well'as'the'heat/cooling'loads.'
8/9/10'20:16 8/9/10'20:16
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 18434
Solar'Dynamic'System'for'
Power'and'Heat
In'the'mid'90's,'I'was'part'of'the'Solar'Dyanmic'Flight'Demonstration'
Project'at'NASA'Glenn. 'We'were'working'with'RSCOEnergia'to'develop'
the'SD'system'as'a'flight'demonstration'on'Mir. 'The'system'used'a'
Brayton'engine'with'an'organic'solution'that'stored'thermal'energy'very'well'
during'the'daylight'phases'of'the'orbit'and'released'it'slowly'during'the'night'
phases. 'If'you'are'interested'in'temperature'maintenance'only,'or'
primarily'temperature'maintenance'with'some'power'to'batteries'for'night'
usage'(very'small'night'usage)'this'system'might'function'well. 'The'
brayton'engine'with'a'solar'concentrator'was'tested'under'T/V'conditions'at'
Glenn. 'Unfortunately,'the'project'was'cancelled'and'never'flew'but'
there'is'a'lot'documentation'available.
8/11/10'14:50 8/15/10'8:04
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 Dig'In
I spend'a'couple'years'developing'lunat'settlement'ideas'on'
Lunarpedia,'
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:RE:Dig'In
The'Lunarpedia'references'is:
Lunarpeida: 'Architecture'as'Mole'Hills
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 Location!'Location!'Location
You'did'not'say'where'your'habatat'was'located'on'the'Moon. '
There'are'three'basic'thermal'zones'on'the'Moon'from'a'settlement'
standpoint.
1. 'Equatorial 'OO 'Just'like'Apollo. 'Here'is'
where'the'temperature'extremes'you'describe'are'most'severe. 'If'any'
of'the'Apollo'missions'had'been'delayed'in'leaving,'even'by'as'little'as'two'
days,'the'crews'would'have'broiled'to'death'on'national'television. '
Currenty'safety'requirements'rule'out'this'region'(75%'of'the'Moon's'
Sufrace) from'human'stays'longer'than'a'few'days.
2. 'Temperate'OO'These'two'narrow'bands'from'about'68'degrees'
north'or'south'to'about'85'degrees'north'or'south'have'a'peak'daytime'
temperature'that'will'not'kill'you'outright. 'If'you'were'trapped'ina'
half'buried'habitat'with'a'failed'cooling'system,'you'could'sweet'out'a'long'
day.
3. 'Polar'OO'These'are'our'very'best'sites'for'at'least'the'first'50'
years'of'lunar'settlement. 'Consider'Mount'Malapert. 'This'
ridge'top'is'about'the'size'of'Manhattan'at'about'86'degrees'South. '
You'have'sulight'for'power'over'95%'of'the'time,'and'lineOofOsite'
communication'with'Earth'98%'of'the'time. 'The'ground'temperature'
1'meter'down'is'about'O50'C'so'you'will'need'some'of'that'sunlight'for'heat'
but'the'daytime'surface'temperatures'will'not'fry'you'and'the'night'lasts'
only'a'couple'Earth'days.
8/13/10'9:14 8/13/10'20:20
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:Location!'Location!'Location
One'major'problem'is'that'we'do'no'know'the'gradient'of'rocks'to'dust'
what'we'will'find'as'we'dig'in'the'polar'regions. 'All'the'cores'we'have'
are'from'Apollo'sites'and'they'were'on'the'flats'where'the'landing'is'
easy. 'We'never'really'dug'a'trench. '
The'best'polar'region'sites'are'ridge'tops'and'we'simply'do'not'know'
what'we'will'find'there. 'The'deeper'we'dig'the'more'rocks'we'will'
find'but'when'does'digging'become'nothing'but'rock'moving?
Ideally'we'will'bring'a'light'front'loader'and'will'dig'trenches'one'to'two'
meters'deep'and'drag'our'inflatalble'hapatat'sections'into'them. 'We'
can'then'throw'the'dust'and'grave'back'on'top'for'radiation'
protection. 'The'air'pressure'will'easily'support'the'weight'in'1/6'
g. 'All'we'can'do'with'the'rocks'is'line'they'up'to'thicken'the'side'
walls.
At'the'poles,'the'answer'to'your'thermial'question'is'that'we'are'biased'
cold. 'our'radiation'protection'regolith'blanket'will'protect'us'from'the'
harsh'direct'sun. 'Our'habatat'floors'will'have'to'be'will'insulated'
against'the'cold'rocks'beneeth'but'thosebed 'rocks'will'take'all'the'
heat'we'need'to'dump.
Our'thermal'problems'is'solved'at'the'poles,'if'we'can'dig'a'trench.
8/13/10'20:20 8/13/10'20:20
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565
RE:Solar'Dynamic'System'for'
Power'and'Heat
The'equatorial'lunar'night'is'about'500'times'longer'than'the'eclispe'
phase'of'at'LEO. 'The'amount'of'phase'change'material'needed'is'just'
too'large.
Paraffin'was'used'in'this'way'in'the'Lunar'Rovers,'but'only'to'prevent'
shortOterm'overheating'of'the'electronics.
If'you'had'a'very'large'supply'of'lunar'water,'it'could'be'of'some'help,'
but'you'would'need'to'ship'a'massive'speciality'tank'from'Earth'that'could'
survive'the'pressure'shifts'as'the'water'inside'changed'phase.
8/15/10'8:04 8/15/10'8:04
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 18015
comprehensive'solution'for'the'
problem
'
Cover'the'entrance'with'solar'cell'panel'to'avoid'direct'
sun'beam.
'
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 Basket'full'of'Rocks
One'possible'design'for'a'rover'is'to'have'a'metal'basket'covering'its'back'
that'can'be'filled'with'rocks'(see'attached'sketch). 'This'provides'both'radiation'
protection'for'vital'electronics'and'stabilizes'the'temperature.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:Basket'full'of'Rocks
The'real'advantage'of'the'turtle'back'rover'is'that'it'sets'up'a'hero'run'if'
the'rover'is'near'a'pole.
The'basket'of'rocks'
lowers'the'center'of'gravity'of'the'rover.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:Best'solution..
Almost,'but'not'quite,'unobtainum!
The'isotopes'must'decay'fast'enough'to'
generate'useful'amounts'of'heat. Only'isotopes'with'halfOlives'under'
about'10'year'can'do'this. Such'isotopes'must'be'manufactured'as'the'
naturally'ones'all'decayed'billions'of'years'ago.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565
New'Batteries'Coming'Soon'to'
a'Planet'near'You!
If'we'could'store'enough'electrical'power'from'our'solar'panels'during'
the'day,'we'could'make'it'through'the'night. There'is'now'an'
enormous'burgeoning'market'on'Earth'for'electrical'energy'storage'for'allO
electric'cars'and'to'smooth'out'alternative'energy'generation.
Current'LithiumOion'batteries'cost'
thousands'of'dollars,'will'take'maybe'2000'charge/discharge'cycles,'and'can'
drive'a'sports'car'about'60'miles'on'a'charge.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 19072
Use'of'Low'Voltage'heat'Pads'
used'in'automotive'industry
I'would'suggest'using'
Low'voltage'heating'pads'such'as'the'seat'heaters'used'in'the'automotive'
industry'use'of'the'pad'around'a'battery'or'rather'in'the'compartment'which'
contains'the'battery'may'be'able'to'keep'the'compartment'at'a'suitable'
temperature'range;'carbon'fiber'heating'elements'may'be'more'conducive'
to'your'needs.'If'you'will'notice'that'the'elements'can'be'cut'to'length.'You'
may'also'use'the'heating'pads'to'heat'thin'heat'sink'fins'to'warm'a'
compartment'if'the'compartment'is'to'have'an'atmosphere.
John'M.'DeSalvo
See'the'below'copied'text'
from'a'PDF'Brochure.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 16667
RE:Environmental'Temperature'
Management'during'the'lu...
Insulating'shelters'might'help. 'If'we'have'a'really'good'
MLI shelter'with'e*=0.01'at'room'temperature'you'still'lose'
5W/m^2. 'For'a'large'shelter,'the'energy'can'add'up.
8/25/10'18:21 8/25/10'18:21
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 Wet'Steam'to'the'rescue
'Put'that'that'with'copious'amounts'of'solar'energy'
during'the'day'and'you'have'the'makings'of'a'real'energy'
system.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565
RE:Environmental'Temperature'
Management'during'the'lu...
Reference'URL's
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:Wet'Steam'to'the'rescue
Reference'URL's:
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 16840 Electrochromic'Thin'Films
Bear'with'me,'as'I'm'an'RF'engineer'trying'to'talk'environmental'
controls. 'Anyway,'at'a'previous'employer'I'had'a'chance'to'work'with'
elctrochromic'thin'films'that'we'were'considering'for'use'as'a'sun'shield'for'
a'space'based'phased'array.
From'a'thermal'standpoint,'it's'possibly'a'great'alternative'to'
MLI blanketing'because'it'will'be'much'lighter'and'more'durable'
especially'to'handling'or'possibly'even'MMOD'impacts. 'I'have'
experience'with'dealing'with'MLI'in'satellite'applications,'and'the'weight'of'
it'can'really'add'up'as'well'as'the'fact'that'it'can'be'very'delicate.
If'you'painted'the'enclosure'of'what'it'is'that'you'want'to'regulate'white,'
and'the'covered'it'with'an'electrochromic'film,'you'could'implement'some'
sort'of'feedback'control'system'that'could'darken'the'film'when'you'needed'
to'absorb'heat'(during'the'lunar'night)'and'then'gradually'lighten'it'as'
temperatures'rose'during'the'day'when'you'needed'to'reject'excess'heat'so'
that'you'essentially'just'had'a'white'painted'surface'(possibly'other'controls'
like'radiators'as'well'below'the'film). 'It's'a'relatively'passive'option'as'
well'in'that'there'are'no'moving'parts,'just'a'varying'potential'applied'to'
change'emissivity. 'Again,'the'advantages'are'that'this'film'is'very'light'
and'durable,'has'very'minimal'power'consumption'especially'when'staying'in'
one'state'for'long'periods,'and'still'leaves'you'with'a'relatively'simple'
solution,'which'in'my'opinion'is'never'a'bad'thing'in'high'reliability'
environements.
9/2/10'7:36 9/2/10'7:36
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:RE:Wet'Steam'to'the'rescue
Several'of'the'Mythbuster'hotwater'heater'runs'are'on'UTube:
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 16667 RE:Wet'Steam'to'the'rescue
The'large'cryo'propellant'tanks'normally'run'at'34'to'48'psi'(H2'and'
O2). 'At'those'pressures,'you'would'have'liquid'water'between'250'
and'275'F,'which'would'provide'a'fair'bit'of'sensible'energy'to'keep'things'
warm.
The'steam'itself'would'have'little'energy'(since'it'has'little'mass)'and'the'
warm'water'would'not'have'enough'energy'to'make'much'steam.
However...'if'a'tank'was'6''across'and'10''high,'it'would'hold'17520'lbm'
of'hot'water. 'Given'200F of'temperature'difference'to'work'
with,'that'would'be'3.5'million'BTUs'O'over'a'15'day'lunar'night'that'would'
provide'an'average'of'nearly'3'kW of'eergy'to'keep'things'
warm. 'Certainly'something'to'think'about!
9/3/10'15:49 9/3/10'15:49
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:RE:Wet'Steam'to'the'rescue
It'would'result'in'a'considerable'mass'penalty'to'reinforce'tanks'intended'
for'other'uses'to'have'a'second'life'as'a'Wet'Steam'system. This'still'
might'be'less'mass'than'the'mass'that'would'be'required'to'send'special'
thermal'storage'materials'from'Earth.
But'remember'this'idea'only'works'if'we'have'already'found'lots'of'
water. 'That'means'the'early'manned'outpost'must'be'near'the'
poles.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
397
Environmental'Temperature'
Management'During'the'Lunar'Night 682 17565 RE:RE:RE:RE:Dig'In
You'could'
design'a'heat'flux'capacitor'made'lays'of'aluminum'foil'and'hard'
packed regolith'dust. 'The'foil'would'carry'heat'into'the'mass'of'
regolith. 'This'design'would'take'computer'modeling'to'determine'if'
the'mass'of'aluminum'sent'from'Earth'is'small'enough'to'make'this'idea'
attractive.
Again'if'we'
find'copious'amounts'of'water,'we'could'consider'drilling'holes'and'pumping'
warm'water'into'deep'layers'of'regolith. There'the'material'has'much'
more'large'broken'rock'and'less'dust.'The'heat'would'be'stored'in'the'
thermal'mass'of'the'water'and'rock.' This'plan'would'risk'the'loss'of'
some'of'the'water.
http://www.exair.com/pages/theater.aspx?gi=8001&a
mp;dlg=1&gf=Cabinet+Coolers
8/9/10'14:28 11/2/10'13:27
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 17576
Cooling'of'SelfO'Contained'
HSDAS'Unit.
Although'symplestic,'fans'built'into'the'box'as'is'done'on'high'power'
transmission'electrical'systems'for'power'disribution'with'spacing'to'allow'
heat'transfer'from'fan'moter.'Also'a'portable'expandable'solar'screen'or'
canopy'over'the'unit'to'protect'it'from'sun'radiation'would'also'help.
I'am'not'sure'how'much'heat'this'will'disipate'however,'this'is'a'tried'and'
proven'method.
QED
Willie'B.'Williams
8/9/10'14:29 11/2/10'13:28
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 17405
Solution'to'Cooling'of'a'SelfO
Contained'Portable'HSDAS'Unit
Scott,
I'believe'what'you'need'is'a'solar'powered'refrigeration'system'similar'to'
the'one we'developed'at'JSC'and'patented. 'This'cooling'system'
could'sit'outside'of'your'enclosure'with'solar'panels'shading'it'and'run'in'
response'to'the'amount'of'sun,'which'of'course'is'what'produces'most'of'the'
heat'anyway. 'It'would'not'need'to'draw'power'from'your'
battery. 'The'only'thing'that'will'need'to'go'through'the'enclosure'is'
refrigerant'tubes,'with'the'evaporator'(heat'exchanger)'located'
inside. 'If'the'enclosure'has'good'insulation'and'possibly'some'
additional'thermal'capacitance'inside,'the'energy'balance'should'work'out'
since'your'temperature'tolerance'is'fairly'broad. We'can'probalby'get'
away'with'just'natural convection'of'the'air'inside,'but'a'fan'might'be'
beneficial. Of'course'a'little'engineering'and'analysis'will'need'to'be'
done,'but'I'am'confident'that'it'can'be'worked'out. 'I'have'attached'
some more'information for'your'reference. 'Some'
related'commercialization'efforts'can'be'viewed'at'
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 17661
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'
Portable'HSDAS'Unit
My'solution'is'provided'below:
A'combination'of'photovoltaics'to'absorb'the'light'(from'the'sun)'and'
thermovoltaics'to'absorb'the'heat'(from'all'heat'sources)'and'concentrate'
them'will'be'used'as'part'of'the'design'solution. 'The'energy'from'
both'will'be used'to'charge'up'asymmetric'capacitors'(for'example,'
lithiumOion'capacitors'from'JSR'Micro,'Inc.). 'The'asymmetric'
capacitors'will'be'used'to'charge'up'the'lithiumOion'battery'as'
needed. 'The'lithiumOion'battery'that'is'used'to'power'the'equipment'
will'be'of'the'LiOironphosphate'type'that'is'capable'of'being'charged in'
very'short'time'periods'(can'get'to'85'%'charge'in'15'minutes'in'some'
cases). 'However,'two'identical'liOion'battery'systems'will'be'
used. 'The'independent'and'identical'battery'systems'will'have'the'
configuration'to'be'tied'in'parallel'to'provide'extended'periods'of'
performance'or'to'meet'exceptionally'high'peak'loads.' Each'battery'
system'will'be'independently'charged'by'the'asymmetric'
capacitors and'hence'one'unit'can'undergo'charge'while'the'other'
unit'is'powering'the'equipment. 'During'periods'of'peak'load,'
microchannel'cooling'loops'will'remove'the'heat'from'the'cells'in the'
liOion'battery and'dump'the'heat'into'the'thermovoltaics. 'The'
symmetric'capacitors'are'used'to'be'able'to'efficiently'dump'energy'into'
them'in'short'bursts'from'the'photovoltaics'and'thermovoltaics.
8/10/10'9:20 11/2/10'13:30
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 18258 a'liquidObath'solution
One'way'that'i've'been'looking'at'for'cooling'denselyOpacked'electronics'
is'to'immerse'the'components'in'a'bath'of'nonconducting'liquid'like'
Fluorinert'(which'the'old'Cray'computers'used)'or'even'highOgrade'mineral'
oil. 'A'small'refrigeration'unit'could'then'be'used'to'remove'the'
accumulated'heat,'but'the'equipment'temperature'would'only'change'
slowly'because'of'the'thermal'mass'of'the'coolant. 'The'fact'that'
you're'already'in'a'sealed'box'is'an'advantage'for'this,'and'the'refrigeration'
unit'could'be'Peltiers run'off'of'photovoltaics.
8/10/10'12:28 11/2/10'13:31
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16798 Cooling'HSDAS'Unit
Just'some'thoughts'but'believe'it'will'work:
'
Add'a'reasonable'level'of'insulation'internal'and'external'to'the'
enclosure.'
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 18837 Question'about'requirements
Why'do'the'component'temperatures'have'to'stay'less'than'
80 degrees'F?'This'is'only'about'26'degrees'C.'In'my'study'of'
electronics'enclosures,'most'electronics'(even'in'high'power'switch'mode'
AC/DC'converters)'are'capable'of'running'at'temperatures'~100'degrees'
C.
Also,'what'is'the'nominal'expected'power'dissipation'inside'the'
enclosure?'I'thought'I'read'25W,'but'I'wasn't'sure'since'several'numbers'are'
tossed'around'in'the'problem'statement.
8/23/10'15:28 11/2/10'13:34
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 19127 Cooling'without'consumables
To'cool'objects'below'80F,'one'needs'a'cold'sink'below'
80F. 'The'most'obvious'cold'sink'is'the'sky,'that'portion'of'the'
viewable'atmosphere'not'subtended'by'the'hot'sink'of'the'sun,'about'40F'at'
this'latitude'if'I'm'not'mistaken. 'A'single'radiator'panel'with'0.5'm2'
area'could'dump'as'much'as'35W,'leaving'a'15F'differential'to'drive'heat'
into'the'radiator'from'the'electronics. 'A'simple'cylindrical'shield'
around'the'box'would'help'to'not'only'block'convection'but'also'block'the'
view'to'trees'and'buildings'which'are'considerably'warmer'than'40F,'lined'
on'the'inside'with'low'emissivity'foil'to'reduce'its'own'penalty. '
A'mirror'or'a'photovoltaic'panel'should'be'used'on'the'side'which'faces'
south'where'the'sun'is'highest'in'the'sky'in'the'middle'of'the'
day. 'There'is'a'mass'penalty'but'no'consumables'of'water'or'
electricity. 'The'system'is'fueled'by'temperature'differences'
and'works'hardest'when'the'temperature'differences'are'the'
highest.
Using'a'special'radiator'coating'with'low'solar'emissivity'and'high'
infrared'emissivity'instead'of'a'mirror'facing'the'sun'would'further'increase'
the'heat'rejection'of'the'system. 'The'night'sky'is'even'colder'at'O22F'
and'could'help'to'start'the'day'off'with'HSDAS'considerably'lower'than'
80F.
8/23/10'16:36 11/2/10'13:34
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 21470
Cooling'of'a'SelfOcontained'
Portable'HSDAS'Unit
Remove'the'encasing'to'assure'hydrogen'explosion'proofing. '
Instead'use'a'nitrogen'purge'and'ventilation'system'that'turns'on'if'a'
hydrogen'sensor'detects'hydrogen. 'Use'this'to'remove'all'oxygen'and'
the'hydrogen'will'not'be'able'to'burn'even'if'present.
8/24/10'15:51 11/2/10'13:35
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 21793
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'
Portable'HSDAS'Unit
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 23709 Stirling'cooler
One'of'the'more'efficient'cooling'technologies'utilizes'the'Stirling'cycle.'It'
is'compact,'quiet,'and'much'more'efficient'than'thermoelectric'systems.'
Coleman'made'a'12'V'Stirling'cooler'that'sold'for'$400'(not'sure'if'it'is'still'
available)'http://tent.blogrica.com/2010/06/28/checkOoutOcolemanOstirlingO
powerOcoolerOwithOfreeOacOadaptorOincludedOforO359O95/
9/2/10'12:50 11/2/10'13:40
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670 RE:Try'an'Exair'cabinet'cooler
'The'Exair'coolers'are'certified'for'Class'I'Division'2'Group'B'environments,'
and'I'have'successfully'employed'the'cabinet'coolers'under'other'
projects. 'The'Exair'vortex'coolers'have'worked'excellently'in'the'test'
facilities,'but'within'this'particular'application'portability'is'a'concern. '
The'vortex'coolers'efficiently'produce'a'concentrated'point'of'high'cooling,'
but'the'systems'require'a'large'quantity'of'compress'gas'to'produce'a'small'
amount'of'chilled'gas. 'Relatively'speaking,'the'cabinet'coolers'are'not'
efficient'enough'(650BTU/h'with'10'SCM'@'100psi)'to'sustain'a'small'
portable'system'for'long'duration.' A'KOtype'nitrogen'bottle'driving'an'
Exair'vortex'cooler'could'only'cancel'out'the'equipment'heat'load'for'about'
3'hours. 'This'doesn’t'consider'any'heating'from'the'external'
environment. '
11/2/10'13:27 11/2/10'13:27
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Cooling'of'SelfO'Contained'
HSDAS'Unit.
'The'Class'I'Division'2'Group'B'classification'involves'environments'that'could'
be'temporarily'exposed'to'explosive'levels'of'hydrogen'gas. '
The'classification'essentially'prohibits'any'possible'ignitions'sources'within'
the'classified'area. 'This'excludes'the'use'of'most'fans,'and'the'
equipment'for'the'HSDAS'system.' Any'equipment'in'the'area'
must'be'certified'for'use'in'a'Class'I'Division'2'Group'B'environment. '
According'to'the'classification,'there'are'only'a'few'safe'ways'for'housing'
unclassified'equipment'within'the'area.' The'equipment'must'
be'contained'in'an'explosive'proof'enclosure.' Heat'transfer'from'
within'the'enclosure'to'the'external'environment'must'be'performed'
through'the'enclosure'with'out'compromising'its'explosive'proof'
classification.' Additionally,'the'use'of'a'solar'screen'or'canopy'over'
the'system'would'help,'but'it'does'not'address'any'heating'effects'from'the'
internal'equipment.
11/2/10'13:28 11/2/10'13:28
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Solution'to'Cooling'of'a'SelfO
Contained'Portable'H...
'Yes,'I'believe'a'solar'powered'134a'active'vaporOcompression'refrigeration'
system'may'be'a'good'technological'means'for'achieving'the'required'
cooling,'but'the'system'must'be'safe'for'use'in'a'Class'I'Division'2'Group'B'
environment. 'The'solar'panels'would'address'the'systems'
power'consumption,'and'they'can'be'economically'configured'for'use'in'the'
explosive'environment. 'The'compressor'and'other'related'
components'could'also'be'internally'housed'in'the'explosive'proof'enclosure,'
but'the'external'heat'exchanger'would'have'to'remain'in'the'explosive'
environment. 'Furthermore,'this'portion'of'the'system'would'
have'to'be'made'safe'for'the'hydrogen'environment. 'The'photos'on'
the'web'link'indicate'the'system'presently'utilizes'an'external'fan. '
This'would'have'to'be'redesigned. 'Maybe'an'explosive'safe'system'
could'be'constructed,'if'convection'alone'were'capable'of'dissipating'the'
heat'into'the'surrounding'atmosphere'without'thermally'going'above'the'
hydrogen'ignition'thresholds.'Overall,'the'effort'involved'in'redesigning'the'
system'may'be'economically'prohibitive,'and'a'more'direct'process'for'
transferring'the'internal'heat'to'the'external'environment'is'preferred.
11/2/10'13:29 11/2/10'13:29
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'
Portable'HSDAS'Unit
'This'is'similar'to'the'initial'thoughts'on'performing'the'required'
cooling. 'A'solar'powered'thermovoltaic'(thermoelectric)'system'was'
conceived'for'transferring'heat'out'of'the'enclosure'rather'then'producing'
power. 'The'photovoltaic'and'thermovoltaic'devices'could'be'
economically'configured'for'use'in'the'Class'I'Division'2'Group'B'explosive'
environments. 'Additionally,'a'thermovoltaic'system'could'be'
electrically'outfitted'with'a'thermal'management'control'that'prevents'the'
external'plates'from'thermally'going'above'the'hydrogen'ignition'
thresholds.
'However,'the'Coefficient'Of'Performance'(COP)'for'thermovoltaic'devices'is'
only'0.3'to'0.6. 'This'is'about'one'sixth'the'amount'of'traditional'vaporO
compression'refrigerators.' The'low'endOtoOend'performance'would'
rapidly'be'overwhelmed'by'heating'effects. 'Harvesting'solar'energy'
would'only'help'negate'the'energy'loss'due'to'the'thermovoltaic'
inefficiencies.' Moreover,'the'large'thermal'differential'needed'
for'producing'power'with'thermovoltaic'devices'is'an'issue.'
Concentrating'heat'from'the'system'and'surrounding'is'not'a'trivial'
task. 'A'thermovoltaic'device'externally'attached'to'microchannel'
cooling'loops'may'be'able'to'recover'small'amounts'of'energy,'but'the'
internal'temperatures'must'be'significantly'higher'then'external'
temperatures'for'any'noteworthy'amounts'of'power'generation. 'As'
the'internal'temperature'increases'the'thermovoltaic'power'production' 11/2/10'13:30 11/2/10'13:30
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670 RE:a'liquidObath'solution
'Internal'aluminum'plating'should'provide'adequate'thermal'coupling. '
It'is'a'manner'of'efficient'thermal'transference'from'the'interior'of'the'
enclosure'to'the'external'environment'rather'then'efficient'thermal'coupling'
to'the'equipment. 'The'key'to'the'problem'is'an'effective'refrigeration'
unit'classified'for'use'in'Class'I'Division'2'Group'B'environments.
'Yes,'a'larger'internal'mass'would'help'in'distributing'the'thermal'energy'and'
act'as'a'good'thermal'accumulator. 'This'would'also'help'take'
advantage'of'the'day'to'night'thermal'cycle,'and'the'larger'mass'would'
produce'more'of'an'average'steady'state'temperature. 'However,'this'
won’t'address'the'fundamental'issue'of'transferring'heat'to'the'
external'atmosphere. 'Furthermore,'it'isn’t'feasible'to'immerse'
the'system'components'in'a'bath.
11/2/10'13:31 11/2/10'13:31
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670 RE:Cooling'HSDAS'Unit
'I'am'a'firm'believer'in'using'a'KISS'system'when'possible.' Exclusively'
employing'a'thermal'system'without'integrating'energy'conversion'would'be'
ideal.' More'specifically,'it'would'be'preferable'to'exploit'a'primarily'
mechanical'control'for'thermally'transferring'heat'to'the'external'
environment'while'keeping'the'thermal'energy'as'thermal'energy. '
Converting'the'thermal'energy'into'electrical'energy'(or'vice'versa)'will'have'
significant'energy'losses. 'It'would'be'nice'to'use'this'favorably,'but'
unfortunately'the'energy'losses'seem'to'be'working'against'removing'heat'in'
this'situation. 'Utilizing'thermally'stored'energy'in'a'substance'such'as'
ice'seems'to'be'a'good'idea. 'I'have'been'leaning'towards'using'liquid'
nitrogen'as'a'cooling'and'purging'agent'with'some'kind'of'a'boilOoff'control.'
'Utilizing'some'kind'of'evaporator'is'a'good'efficient'way'to'remove'heat'out'
of'an'object'into'the'surrounding'environment. 'But,'this'can'be'
problematic'around'electrical'equipment. 'High'internal'
moisture'levels'can'be'damaging'to'the'HSDAS'equipment,'and'external'
humidifiers'difficult'to'employ'in'our'high'humidity'coastal'
environment. 'Similar'to'water'evaporation,'LN2'boilOoff'can'efficiently'
remove'heat'out'of'an'object'into'the'surrounding'environment,'and'it'is'
more'compatible'with'electrical'equipment.
11/2/10'13:32 11/2/10'13:32
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670 RE:cooling'HSDAS'Unit
'Relatively'speaking,'environmental'heating'effects'are'long'heating'periods,'
and'KObottles'incapable'of'sustaining'a'vortex'cooler'for'appropriate'
durations.
'A'combination'of'external'heat'mitigation'techniques'can'be'employed'to'
help'reduce'the'heat'load;'however,'an'active'heat'removal'system'will'be'
necessary.
11/2/10'13:33 11/2/10'13:33
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Question'about'
requirements
'Power'systems'do'seem'to'have'a'little'higher'operational'temperature'then'
other'electrical'equipment. 'However,'the'life'of'electronic'
equipment'(particularly'integrated'circuitry)'is'dramatically'reduced'when'
operating'the'systems'in'heated'environments. 'Manufactures'
normally'specify'the'nominal'operational'temperature'below'85'degrees'
F.
11/2/10'13:34 11/2/10'13:34
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Cooling'without'
consumables
'Yes,'I'believe'the'sky'is'the'best'accessible'cold'sink,'and'it'should'be'able'to'
handle'the'expected'heat'loads'without'saturating'the'local'
vicinity. 'I'am'under'the'impression'that'a'plate'heat'exchanger'
is'one'of'the'most'efficient'heat'exchangers'available. 'A'
procurable'high'efficient'heat'transferring'system'classified'for'use'in'a'Class'
I'Division'2'Group'B'environment'and'easily'mountable'in'a'mobile'enclosure'
would'be'perfect. 'The'level'of'effort'required'to'design'and'construct'
a'custom'plate'heat'exchanger'is'out'of'scope'for'this'project,'but'the'
modification'of'a'preexisting'system'may'be'achievable. 'I'can'image'a'
common'oil'filled'plate'space'heater'with'the'heating'elements'replace'with'
a'thermal'heat'sink'apparatus.
11/2/10'13:34 11/2/10'13:34
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Cooling'of'a'SelfOcontained'
Portable'HSDAS'Unit
'It'is'common'practice'and'acceptable'to'employ'nitrogen'purged'NEMA'4X'
enclosures'for'meeting'the'required'Class'I'Division'2'Group'B'explosive'
classification. 'But,'the'purge'system'must'be'actively'
monitored'at'all'times'with'alarming'status. 'This'is'achieved'
throughout'the'test'facilities'with'a'site'wide'nitrogen'purge'system. '
Tying'into'this'system'is'not'practical'on'a'mobile'system. 'So,'the'
mobile'unit'will'have'to'be'outfitted'with'a'self'purging'system,'purge'
monitoring,'and'alarming. ' The'purge'system'must'be'
monitored'with'external'indication'even'if'the'system'loses'electrical'
power. ' This'portion'of'the'effort'has'already'been'
designed.
11/2/10'13:35 11/2/10'13:35
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:RE:Cooling'of'a'SelfO
Contained'Portable'HSDAS'Unit
'
'Yes,'using'the'ground'as'a'thermal'sink'is'not'practical. 'Additionally,'
no'specifications'were'made'for'drawing'power'from'the'internal'power'
supply'in'attempt'to'reduce'restrictions,'and'encourage'proposing'
solutions. 'Furthermore,'the'system’s'power'system'
could'conceivably'be'modified'to'reasonably'accommodate'a'thermal'control'
system.
11/2/10'13:37 11/2/10'13:37
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'
Portable'HSDAS'Unit
'Electricity'will'not'be'available'and'the'enclosure'will'be'on'a'role'around'
system'(not'mounted). 'It'is'not'practical'to'use'the'ground'as'a'
cold'sink. 'Besides,'the'surrounding'atmosphere'is'the'most'accessible'
cold'sink'and'it'should'be'adequate. ' This'approach'in'general'
could'be'achievable'with'a'custom'atmosphere'heat'exchanger.
11/2/10'13:37 11/2/10'13:37
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670
RE:Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'
Portable'HSDAS'Unit'
'Modifying'a'commercial'product'could'be'a'fine'and'economical'
approach. ' However,'a'lot'of'these'systems'are'not'designed'to'
be'power'conservative,'but'a'few'use'sensibly'efficient'DC'
compressors/condensers.' It'is'my'impression'that'this'kind'of'
DC'system'has'a'short'life. 'I'have'seen'some'units'that'employ'electric'
heating'elements'in'the'condensers,'but'they'are'commonly'made'for'use'
with'propane'burners. 'The'electric'heating'elements'are'used'
only'when'electric'power'is'available. 'These'systems'
don’t'seem'to'work'very'long'on'battery'power. 'Some'of'the'
small'car'coolers'use'thermovoltaic'plates'(not'efficient).
11/2/10'13:39 11/2/10'13:39
399
Cooling'of'a'SelfOContained'Portable'
HSDAS'Unit 686 16670 RE:Stirling'cooler
'This'looks'good. 'The'coleman'cooler'used'a'Free'Piston'Stirling'
Cooler'(FPSC)'module'made'by'Global'Cooling'
(www.globacooling.com). 'The'coleman'coolers'(400$)'are'currently'
unavailable. 'However,'the'FPSC'module'appears'to'be'available'as'
medical'transportation'units. 'The'medical'grade'systems'are'a'little'
pricey'(2,500$'to'10,000$),'but'Global'Cooling'has'a'line'of'bare'bones'PFSC'
modules'without'any'cooler'housings. 'They'are'made'for'integrating'
into'other'housings,'and'they'may'be'available'directly'from'Global'
Cooling. 'Global'Cooling'has'modules'for'obtaining'0C'to'O100C. '
The'0C'M150'module'is'about'5'by'11'inches'and'powered'by'12'volts.'
Additionally,'the'compact'modules'have'a'Coefficient'Of'Performance'
(COP)'of'2'and'they'are'only'about'5'pounds.' Furthermore,'the'FPSC'
modules'are'environmentally'friendly'and'they'seem'to'be'one'of'the'best'
matched'systems'available. 'The'coolers'are'not'classic'Stirling'
engines,'but'they'are'only'based'on'the'stirling'cycle. 'The'FPSC'is'a'
freeOpiston'machine'supported'by'nonOcontact'gas'bearings'and'driven'by'a'
linear'motor'for'cyclically'expanding'and'compressing'helium. 'The'
main'portion'of'the'unit'could'be'house'in'the'enclosure,'but'the'heat'
exchanger'would'need'some'design'work'for'use'in'a'Class'I'Division'2'Group'
B'explosive'environment. 'The'FPSC'normally'comes'with'a'thermal'fin'
heat'sink'as'the'external'heat'exchanger,'and'the'required'modification'to'
the'heat'sink'would'be'minimal. 'The'biggest'challenge'would'be'
mounting'the'FPSC'module'into'the'enclosures.
11/2/10'13:40 11/2/10'13:40
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 691 16679
This'board'was'created'to'
discuss'the'solutions'for'this'
Challenge Discuss'the'solutions'for'this'Challenge' 8/6/10'16:02 8/6/10'16:02
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 16679
Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution Please'discuss'this'Challenge'here 8/6/10'16:02 8/23/10'16:06
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 19102
High'Temp'Cu'wire'attachment'
Solution
Use'mechanical'force'to'clamp'wire'with'crimped'connector'to'contact'
pad. This'can'be'achieved'by'first'crimping'a'flat'connector'
with'hole'in'flat'to'22'AWG'wire. 'Crimp'may'be'soldered'to'connector'
for'extra'conductivity. 'Drill'or'punch'hole'in'Kapton'film'contact'pad,'
ensuring'that'enough'contact'metal'on'pad'to'make'good'mechanical'
contact'with'crimped'connector. 'Use'screw,'washers,'and'nut'to'
fasten'crimped'connector'to'contact'pad'at'point'where'hole'is'punched'in'
Kapton. 'Use'thread'adhesive'if'needed'to'keep'nut'from'
loosening.
8/23/10'16:06 8/25/10'14:17
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 17048
RE:Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution
Have'you'considered'thermoOcompression'bonding?
8/23/10'16:06 8/23/10'16:06
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 19581
High'Temp'Cu'wire'attachment'
solution
Have'you'tried'to'tig'weld'the'Cu'wires'to'the'Cu'pads? 'We'
have'successfully welded'copper'fittings'together'using'the'TIG'
welding'process.
8/23/10'16:10 8/25/10'14:16
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 17703 High'Temperature'Bond
EP21TCHTO1'from'MasterBond '
http://www.masterbond.com/sg/masterbond_htsg.pdf 'good'
to'400F'(204C)'may'work.
Not'sure'why'you'cannot'solder'the'multistrand'wire'to'the'pad,'as'
indicated'by'QuangOViet'above.
8/23/10'16:15 8/23/10'16:15
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 20280
Bonding'of'Copper'Wires'to'
Thin'Substrate
The'microelctronics'industry'attaches'wires'to'thin'substrates'using'a'
number'of'methods. 'One'method'is ultrasonic'welding.'The'
description'of'the'problem'and'its'application'seem'well'suited'to'ultrasonic'
welding. 'No'additional'materials'need'to'be'added'to'the'bond'joint,'
and'the'bond'is'dependent'upon'the'interaction'of'the'atoms'of'the'wire'and'
copper'film. 'Air'bubble'issues and'thermal'expansion'
mismatch should'be'removed'from'the'equation. The'problem'
owners'should'investigate'the'various'ultrasonic'welding'techniques'and'
processes'that'are'available'to'determine'if'there'is'one'that'will'work'for'
this'problem.
8/23/10'17:40 8/25/10'14:19
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 20545
RE:High'Temp'Cu'wire'
attachment'Solution
Mechanical'should'be'the'way'to'go'if'soldering'isn't'possible'(although'it'
should'be,'the'Cu'coating'may'need'to'be'thicker'on'the'pad.) 'A'small'
clamp'of'some'sort'with'a'footprint'similar'in'size'to'the'pad. 'Teeth'
on'2'out'of'3'edges'of'the'clamp'could'hold'it'in'place'while'reducing'the'
chances'of'pullout.
8/23/10'17:43 8/23/10'17:43
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 21470
High'tempCu'wire'attachment'
solution
Try'a'copper'alloy'with'1'percent'and'also'3'percent'tungsten.
8/24/10'10:54 8/24/10'10:54
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 21520 HighOtemp'wire'attachment
'This'method'
would'require'a'cure'at'a'minimum'temperature'of'150C.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 17565 Solution'from'auto'industry
'
8/31/10'7:59 8/31/10'7:59
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 17565 Layout'wire'without'Joints
Another'approach'is'to'not'have'a'joint'at'all. 'Instead'from'
a'shape'out'of'insulated'wire'in'serpentine'pattern. 'A'24'or'26'gauge'
wire'would'be'better'suited.
8/31/10'8:12 9/3/10'7:28
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 16679 RE:Layout'wire'without'Joints
We'need'voltage'resistance'up'to'10'kV,'not'1'kV.
8/31/10'10:01 8/31/10'10:01
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 16840 Using'a'rivet'approach
I'believe'that'this'is'a'very'similar'scenario'as'that'of'grounding'
MLI blanketing'materials. 'MLI blanketing'consists'of'thin'
mylar'sheets'that'have'a'simliar'1000O2000'angstrom'aluminum'layer'
deposited'on'them'which'all'must'be'grounded'for'ESD'reasons. 'One'
way'this'is'done'is'to'bascially'take'aluminum'foil'and'fold'it'into'an'
accordion'shape,'and'then'slide'each'layer'of'the'blanket'into'a'
corresponding'fold'of'the'foil. 'You'then'pass'a'rivet'through'this'to'
clamp'all'of'the'layers'together'and'just'have'the'wire'attached'to'the'rivet'
on'one'end'as'a'pigtail. 'You'can'use'a'rivet'that'allows'for'a'
decent'amount'of'surface'area'to'be'included'in'the'clamp,'this'is'somehting'
that'could'be'experimented'with. 'The'best'part'is'that'no'epoxies'are'
required,'and'there's'really'no'sensitivity'to'temperature. 'You'could'
probably'even'implement'two'joints'per'sheet'or'something'as'well'for'
redundancy.
You'could'use'copper'foil'to'keep'everything'uniform'as'well. '
Should'be'an'easy'method'to'try'out'in'a'lab'to'make'some'continuity'
measurements'with'as'well'as'some'mechanical'stress'tests,'etc.
9/2/10'9:27 9/2/10'9:27
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 17565 RE:Layout'wire'without'Joints
Here'is'a'simple'sketch'of'a'possible'layout. 'Note'that'the'wire'is'
layed'out'in'a'manner'to'reduce'inductance'but'some'inductance'will'
remain.
9/3/10'7:21 9/3/10'7:21
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 17565
RE:RE:Layout'wire'without'
Joints
The'
biggest'consideration'is'whether'an'outer'ground'shield'is'required. '
This'shield'is'often'required'for'safety'on'HV wiring. 'The'shield'
would'also'help'limit'the'electric'field'to'the'area'of'the'pad'and'reduce'the'
field'around'the'cables.'This'shield'will'greatly'increase'both'the'size'and'
stiffness'of'the'wires.
Note'that'in'this'design'any'shield'would'have'
to'be'removed'starting'where'the'wire'first'meets'the'
pad.
9/3/10'7:28 9/3/10'7:28
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 23804
High'temperature'wire'
attachment'method
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
402
High'Temperature'Wire'Attachment'
Method 692 19731
Soldering,'Low'Temperature'
Copper'Bonding,'and'more
'I'have'discussed'some'things'to'consider'if'looking'at'soldering'as'an'option'
for'this'application'in'the'informal'discussion'in'the'attached'pdf.'
Copper'is'easy'to'solder'so'I'think'it's'a'good'option'to'test'for'
this'application.
'I'also'have'mentioned'and'referenced'a'couple'of'studies'in'regards'to'low'
temperature'bonding'of'copper'to'copper'for'use'with'organic'substrates.'
I'think'these'might'be'useful'if'it'is'found'that'soldering'has'
insufficient'mechanical'properties'or'requires'a'temperature'that'is'not'
workable'for'the'kapton'film.' It'sounds'like'there'has'been'a'lot'more'
work'in'this'field'than'just'what'I'referenced,'but'this'is'a'great'start.'
Copper'pillars'are'mentioned,'and'they'might'help'with'the'thin'
copper'layer'where'more'thickness'is'needed.
'Ultrasonic'welding'is'an'option,'but'I'see'the'kapton'being'an'issue'for'
clamping.
9/20/10'17:11 9/20/10'17:11
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 693 16688
This'board'was'created'to'
discuss'the'solutions'for'this'
Challenge Discuss'the'solutions'for'this'Challenge' 8/9/10'9:28 8/9/10'9:28
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 16688
Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution Please'discuss'this'Challenge'here 8/9/10'9:28 9/3/10'10:30
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 17532
RE:Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution
Have'you'considered'a'fresnel'lens'overlay? 'A'
fresnel'lens'would'allow'you'to'focus'light'onto'smaller'area,'thus'increasing'
efficiency. 'I'm'not'sure'whether'or'not'it'would'be'useful'for'tuning'to'
particular'wavelengths.
8/9/10'14:16 8/9/10'14:16
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 17518
RE:Discuss'the'challenge'and'
submit'your'solution
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 17861 Infrared'solar'cells
Researchers'have'been'working'on'tapping'the'IR'as'well'as'the'UV'(more'
difficult)'portions'of'the'spectrum.
For'example'see:
8/12/10'14:22 8/24/10'11:05
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 18777 NanoSemiconductor'Solar'Cells
The'Idaho'National'Lab'and'Idaho'State'University'are'working'on'both'
select'band'and'broadband'solar'cells'made'of'precision'nanoparticle'
semiconductors. 'See'following'websites.
http://www.gizmag.com/researchersOdevelopingOsolarO
technologyOthatOworksOatOnight/8574/
While'there'are'manufacturing'hurdles'yet'to'be'overcome,'in'a'space'
setting,'cost'may'be'less'important'than'weight'and'efficiency.
8/19/10'16:08 8/19/10'16:08
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 17565 Smoothing'out'Solar'Power
There'is'now'an'enormous'burgeoning'market'on'Earth'for'electrical'
energy'storage'for'allOelectric'cars'and'to'smooth'out'alternative'energy'
generation,'especially'solar.
EEStor. They'have'a'
new'factory'down'in'Texas'that'will'make'Electrical'Energy'Storage'Units'
(EESU)'for'allOelectric'cars.
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 17565 RE:Smoothing'out'Solar'Power
How'AllOElectric'Cars'Enable'Alternative'Energy
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 17565
The'Solar'Forge'is'Available'
Now
Back'in'the'1970's'I'designed'a'system'for'building'solar'concentrators'for'
industrial'process'in'developing'nations'called'the'
Like'all'concentrators'it'was'only'cost' 8/21/10'13:27 9/3/10'10:26
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 16688
RE:multiOlayer'solar'cell'
material'absorbs'different'...
Thank'you'for'the'PDF. 'This'is'a'conventional'approach'to'solving'
the'problem'that'we'talk'about'in'the'challenge'statement. '
We're'looking'for'something'different'from'this'kind'of'solution.'
8/24/10'11:05 8/24/10'11:05
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 16688
RE:Electrostatic'Behavior'of'
Surfaces
Do'you'know'which'group'in'Israel?
8/24/10'11:05 8/24/10'11:05
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 18346
RE:RE:Electrostatic'Behavior'of'
Surfaces
Quote'from'Pugel,'Diane'E.'(GSFCO5530)':'
Challenge(Number Title Discussion(Board(ID Author(ID Subject Post Create(Date Last(Reply(Date
403
Responsive'Solar'Cell'for'Variable'
Environment'Power'Generation 694 21869
wavelengths'vs'bandgaps'vs'
dopents
My'understanding'is'that'you'absorb'different'wavelengths'based'
primarily'on'the'bandgap'of'the'material'used