Charnvit K. by R. IletoAjarn Charnvit: A brief study of a Thai historian-activistby his former classmate, Reynaldo Ileto
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1 10/10/2011 Ajarn Charnvit A brief study of a Thai historian-activist by his former classmate, Reynaldo Ileto Thai historian Charnvit Kasetsiri • Born in 1941 of a provincial political family, groomed to become an ambassador, was recruited by the Thai Foreign Ministry • Did his MA at the elite Occidental College in California • Became disillusioned by the Thai government’s support for the US war in Vietnam • Resigned his civil service position in 1967 to enroll in the PhD in Southeast Asian History at Cornell. Charnvit and his supervisor, Oliver Wolters at Cornell, 1968 (through the hidden camera of classmate Rey Ileto)
Transcript
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10/10/2011
Ajarn CharnvitA brief study of a Thai historian-activist
by his former classmate,Reynaldo Ileto
Thai historian Charnvit Kasetsiri• Born in 1941 of a provincial
political family, groomed tobecome an ambassador,was recruited by the ThaiForeign Ministry
• Did his MA at the eliteOccidental College inCalifornia
• Became disillusioned by theThai government’s supportfor the US war in Vietnam
• Resigned his civil serviceposition in 1967 to enroll inthe PhD in Southeast AsianHistory at Cornell.
Charnvit and his supervisor,Oliver Wolters at Cornell, 1968(through the hidden camera ofclassmate Rey Ileto)
Bangkok1967 M.A. Diplomacy, Occidental College, Los Angeles1972 Ph.D. in Southeast Asian History, Cornell University
(minor in Politics and Government)
Employment1973-2001 Lecturer: History Department,Thammasat
University.1981-83 Head: History Department, Thammasat University1982-85 Deputy Director: Thai Khadi Institute, Thammasat1983-88 Vice Rector: Thammasat University1991-94 Dean: Faculty of Liberal Arts, Thammasat1994-95 Rector (President): Thammasat University
Some publications in English (most are in Thai)• The Rise of Ayudhya: A History of Siam in the Fourteenth
and Fifteenth Centuries, Kuala Lumpur: Oxford UP, 1976.• Thai Politics: 1932-1957, Thak Chaleomtiarana, ed.,
(Charnvit Kasetsiri and Thinaphan Nakhata, contributors),Bangkok : Social Sciences Association of Thailand, 1978.
• “Thai Historiography from Ancient Times to the ModernPeriod,” in Anthony Reid and David Marr, eds., Perceptionsof the Past in Southeast Asia, 1979
• Bibliography: Southeast Asian Studies in Thailand, compiledwith T. Petchlertanan and S. Saiyawong, 1991.
• "Thai-Burmese-Lao-Cambodian Borders: A Survey Report,"tr. by C. Tingsbadh, Southeast Asian Network Bulletin,December 1992.
• “Thailand-Cambodia: A Love-Hate Relationship,” KyotoReview of Southeast Asia, No. 3, March 2003.
• “Will the Mekong Survive Globalization”, Kyoto Review ofSoutheast Asia, No. 4, October 2003.
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• "I consider myself as aSoutheast Asianist and Iconnected myself withmajor events in SoutheastAsia.”
• Born in 1941, the year ofPearl Harbor. His hometown is a few kilometersfrom the camp where theJapanese came to buildthe “Death Railroad” andbridge on the River Kwai.
• Retired in 2001, same year
as the World Trade Centercollapse. “I have seen bothPearl Harbor in Hawaii andGround Zero in NYC.”
Sharing experiences at aworkshop of the NUSSoutheast Asian StudiesProgram, November 2004
Family and educational background
• Came from conservative background. Upper middleclass family. Went to a top secondary school and toThammasat University, for his BA in Diplomacy; got thehighest mark and was awarded the King’s prize.
• The great grandson of the famous missionary Dr Bradley(who failed to convert many Thais) came to see him in1965 to give him a Rockefeller scholarship (trying toconvert him?).
• The war in Indochina made it so easy y in Thailand, , being gan ally, to get a scholarship to America.
• He resigned from the Foreign Affairs ministry to go toAmerica, but was still in the civil service, intending toreturn to become ambassador or something.
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• Graduated from Thammasat in 1963, worked in BangkokCity Hall and Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Then he wasoffered a scholarship to America for further studies.
“Time and Space” context of ourexperience
• The Americans were waging war in Indochina, pouring inaid and money to their allies, like Thailand. So easy toget a scholarship. [We weren’t necessarily the best andbrightest.]
• He was accepted first by the University of the Philippines(UP). UP in the 1960s was one of the top in SoutheastAsia. Many Thammasat faculty members are UPgraduates, mainly in Economics.
• He had a SEATO (SEA Treaty Organization) grant to goto UP, but just before he left the Rockefeller grant came.
• Now students are complaining it’s so difficult for them togo overseas. A different situation it was back then.
• Arrived in America in July 1965, at the time the Watts[racial] riots in Los Angeles were taking place, whichshocked and confused him.
American sojourn, 1965-73
• Went to a very conservative small college - Occidentalcollege - a recruiting ground for CIA; had CIA friends; hisfriends’ fathers were close to the King of Thailand.
• Profoundly affected by the escalating war in Indochina,Tonkin resolution. A black friend told him the war wasmost barbaric. The Burmese U Thant, secretary generalof the UN had said that too.
• Was in the US from 1965 to early 1973 (total of 7 years)• Those days if you were overseas you can’t go home
often. He only went home twice. Thus he was embeddedin American society at that time.
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• “What I found in America was shocking.” Going
Studies in America gave him a clearer viewof Southeast Asia, exposed lies
to America exposed the “lies” they were fedlocally in Bangkok.
• Before I arrived in California he went there with abelief in the myth of a peaceful and integrative[Thai] society. Found out by late 60s thatAmericans were bombing Vietnam “but we inThailand didn’t know.”
• He couldn’t believe at first that Thais wereimplicated in bombing of their neighbors.
“Student activism changed me from wanting to bean ambassador (study diplomacy) to studying
Southeast Asia because of the war.
Cornell anti-war rally, 1969
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Cornell Years - Discovering Southeast Asiavia America
• “In 1967 I graduated MA in Los Angeles, went to Cornell,there met Rey Ileto, fresh from a convent, the Ateneo.”
• Probably was the first Thai to take Indonesian language,as well as Burmese. Became interested in neighboringcountries, cultures, languages, while in America.
• “Discovered Southeast Asia via America”• Spent years at Cornell. Studied under DGE Hall, Wolters,
Kahin, Wyatt, Anderson. They were our teachers, ourmentors, and many became our friends.
• Kahin preferred to be called George. But Charnvit couldn’tsay “George,” except when Kahin was adviser to GeorgeMcGovern (George speaking to George was confusing)who ran for President against Nixon.
• McGovern lost, and Charnvit and his friends were“heartbroken.”
“I went with Rey todemonstrate in front ofthe White House. Hehad his whiteheadband, this guy.”
Charnvit in Washington DC, 1970, with Filipinostudent Belinda Aquino
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“Things happened by accident…”• …I never heard of Cornell University. It was chosen by
somebody else. I was being groomed for a diplomaticcareer. Switched from diplomacy to Southeast Asianstudies. I didn’t know what SEA Studies was. We allwanted American studies or European studies…
• I discovered Southeast Asia in America, then in Japan.• American education was weak on theory. I bought
Toynbee, I looked at it for a few minutes, but couldn’tread beyond first few pages.
• Only E.H. Carr’s “What is History” captivated him.• Knows nothing about deconstructionism, etc., butexperience sensitized him to the constructed natureof knowledge.
Southeast Asia was meaningful in the context of the 1960’swar and student activism in the 1970’s.
“I graduated and then I went home, and never returned to theMinistry of Foreign Affairs. I stayed at Thammasat, in themiddle of where everything was happening, not far from thegovernment house…
Three big events people always refer to, that he lived through:1. October 1973 student uprising, when the militarygovernment collapsed.
2. October 6, 1976, when the military came back for a briefperiod up to 1992. “Being in Thammasat you can’t escapeit.” Ever since he came back from America he was involvedwith students. When the 1976 massacre happened he wasvice Rector; he had to run away to the Kyoto UniversityCenter for Southeast Asian Studies.
3. May 1992 uprising, when General Suchinda stepped down,leading to democratic reforms.
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Charnvit’s generation encounteredSoutheast Asian studies from the outside
• “My experience of Southeast Asia is from America, but alsofrom Japan. The pioneer Yoneo Ishii. Being with Japanesescholars connected me with the Toyota Foundation, whichpromoted Southeast Asian studies in Southeast Asia.
• He visited all the countries in Southeast Asia, includingEast Timor. The Toyota Foundation encouraged crossingboundaries, while the American experience had turnedthem into one-country scholars.
• In the early 1980s his group came to Singapore and that’show he became acquainted with Southeast Asian Studiesin Singapore.
• My experience of Southeast Asian studies is via the USAand Japan and via my experience with student activism inThailand plus the kind of activities to promote awareness ofSoutheast Asia in Thailand. [End track]
Thai scholars and Colonial DominationSo I discovered Southeast Asia by way of the USA and
Japan plus my involvement with what’s happening inThailand now.
• I consider myself and most of the [Southeast Asia]program as an American product in some funny way.
• On the question Rey raised whether in Thailand we areuncomfortable with the question of Anglo-Americandomination, the situation in Thailand might be a bitdifferent. We might be a bit uncomfortable with Europeandomination of Thai studies, for example, Coedes and theFrench dominating some themes.
• But a bit different…Some of us are against Coedes oragainst some other farang’s (foreigner’s) interpretation ofSoutheast Asian studies in order to be critical of ourestablishment. Mainly a means of being critical of theRoyal or official domination of scholarship. We go againstthe West in order to attack Bangkok domination.
wrote Royalty-centered Wyatt
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WoodsideSteinberg
David Wyatt (left) – theCornell historian who
history
Why the language of scholarship matters
• “I don’t know whether Indonesia and Thailandmight be similar. We write in our officiallanguages. The Philippines and Singapore aremore comparable [i.e. scholars write in English].
• When you talk about Anglo-American orEuropean domination of scholarship inSoutheast Asia, this is determined bydependence on certain languages.
• In my case when I write and speak in Thai I amnot dominated by Anglo-American or Europeanscholarship.
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Charnvit is not another Maung Htin Aung
• “I take what is useful from DGE Hall. I disregard hisarguments with Maung Htin Aung.
• I organized translation of Coedes book and articles intoThai. Selective. Hall’s History is translated into Thai, thirdprinting.
• Not the same situation as in Burma when Maung HtinAung as vice chancellor of University of Rangoon had tocome out against DGE Hall’s interpretation of the Anglo-Burmese wars.
• As president of Thammasat I wouldn’t dream of attackingHall or Wolters.• Chanida’s MA thesis is against royal hegemony. When I
write and speak in Thai we are not dominated byWestern scholarship. The situation in Thailand may bedifferent from elsewhere.
Southeast Asia awareness in SEA
• “On whether Southeast Asia [consciousness]exists in Southeast Asia - maybe. Many of ourstudents are interested in Burma. Althoughretired I still have almost 400 students doingSoutheast Asian studies. Many are takingIndonesian and Burmese languages.
• “Southeast Asia” has a weak existence still inThailand. The same as in the rest of SoutheastAsia. We relied on old friends [to establish SEStudies], we met in US and Japan, etc. We triedto create a Southeast Asian unity. But still quiteweak.
• Nationally bound, nationally-concernedscholarship is still with us.
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Activist scholarship
• “I was involved in student politics at Thammasatand got kicked out. Rey Ileto went back and hadall the adventures at UP [University of thePhilippines] until he got out. Taufik Abdullah wasinvolved in politics; he was shelved at one timeat LIPI.
• “In some ways our nations, including Thailand,are very new and a lot of things are veryunsettled. We have become involved in our ownproblems, locally and nationally.
[end track]
Challenging official views of regional ties• Involvement in student movement by chance when he
came back. The knowledge he had collected in US wasan attempt to reject the official understanding of Thaisociety and Thailand’s relations with its neighbors.
• This knowledge changed the way of looking at Thaisociety and Thailand’s neighbors. Challenged the ideathat being never colonized they are different. [influenceof Ben Anderson] We are different, we are unique, butwe have a lot of things in common with the Filipino, theSingaporean, the Burmese, etc. Blacklisted by Burmesegovernment.
• To give an alternative, unofficial version of Thai history ofSoutheast Asia.[he didn’t get this from Wyatt]
• Burning of Thai embassy in Phnom Penh (in 2003) ledhim to write in Thai explaining the complex history ofmutual attitudes between Thai and Khmer.
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• You put in this and that but you have no discipline. In a way,Yes, but…No.
“Interdisciplinary Area Studies, they say, islike chop suey…
• Benedict Anderson came up with theory because of his areastudy experience. He is one of the few who can cross theboundaries. Movement from Indonesia to Thailand and toPhilippines – due to his experience, he came up with thebook Imagined Communities.
• Ben is fluent in Filipino now. He lectures in Thai in Thailand.He has crossed the boundaries. Our good professor Woltersalso, because of his Chinese language, enabled him tocross from Vietnam to Ayuthaya to Angkor. Language isimportant.
• The books of Hobsbawm and Anderson are much indemand for translation.
“Things happened by accident…”• …I never heard of Cornell University. It was chosen by
somebody else. I was being groomed for a diplomaticcareer. Switched from diplomacy to Southeast Asianstudies. I didn’t know what SEA Studies was. We allwanted American studies or European studies…
• I discovered Southeast Asia in America, then in Japan.• American education was weak on theory. I bought
Toynbee, I looked at it for a few minutes, but couldn’tread beyond first few pages.
• Only E.H. Carr’s “What is History” captivated him.• Knows nothing about deconstructionism, etc., butexperience sensitized him to the constructed natureof knowledge.
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On merging theory with experience.
• Local events informed his thinking. The time andthe period matter – Charnvit lived through the1973 student movement and 1976 coup.
• We of our generation who went overseas, weencountered the specter of comparison.
• Rizal and Chulalongkorn belonged to samegeneration. Why not put Rizal’s picture on thecover of theThai translation of Noli me Tangere?
• We are too concerned with our own nationalproblems. As Wolters said to Taufik: this is atime to understand Southeast Asia. Tounderstand Southeast Asia is to understandourselves as well.
Rector (President) of Thammasat, 1994-5
All dressed up tomeet the King onCommencementDay, 27 July 1994
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The historian-civilservant with formerclassmate ReyIleto, July 1994
The Rector and a student in front of Rama V’s portrait
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Charnvit (middle)with ManuelSarkisyanz on a visitto the Philippines,December 1985
Charnvit, Sarkisyanz, etc., at Rizal’s ancestral house
