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Chapter 18 Depositions in Cases Alleging the Resale of RebuiltWrecked Cars (MO)
Bernard Brown has been in private practice in Kansas City since 1980. Between 1984
and 1996 his office was devoted entirely to representing consumer plaintiffs who were victims ofcar fraud such as the fraudulent sales of rebuilt wrecks and cars with odometer rollbacks.
More recently he has also worked on consumer class actions relating to vehicle sales and
financing, and on home equity fraud cases. A sizeable number of his cases have resulted in
published court decisions of significance in these areas of the law.Mr. Brown began doing public interest work when he was in college, starting with
volunteer work at the headquarters of Common Cause in Washington, D.C. He has worked
regularly with National Consumer Law Center staff for many years on various materials, and haswritten or contributed to many articles relating to consumer law. He is a founding member and
one of the two original Co-chairs of the National Association of Consumer Advocates
(NACA). He has worked closely on a number of issues with other leading consumer groups
(such as Consumers Union, Consumer Federation of America, Public Citizen, U.S. PIRG, Centerfor Auto Safety, and Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety), and has drafted legislation and
testified for these groups in the U.S. and state legislatures. He is often consulted by media andbusiness entities regarding car industry-related consumer issues. He is extensively involved in
networking and idea-sharing efforts of consumer advocate attorneys across the country, and
regularly provides lectures for other attorneys and consumer advocates on various consumer law
issues. He also serves as an adjunct law school professor teaching consumer protection law.Sections 18.1 is the deposition of the business manager for a franchised automobile
dealer about a car sale for which he arranged the financing. The deponent had no recollection of
the transaction at all at the beginning of the deposition or even of meeting with the dealersattorney about the suit six months before the deposition. The deposition details the dealers
normal steps in arranging high rate car financing.Section 18.2 is the deposition of the former used car manager at a car dealer who had no
recollection of the sale of a rebuilt wreck to one of the dealers car salesmen. It discusses what
the dealers file shows about the car and the dealers asserted general practices of inspecting used
cars before sale and disclosing all known defects.
Section 18.3 is the deposition, with editorial comments, of a used car manager at afranchised automobile dealer alleged to have sold a rebuilt wreck to the consumer without
disclosure that the car had been rebuilt and representing it was like new when a routine
inspection by a sales person or mechanic would have revealed that the car had been wrecked.1
The used car manager describes the process for purchasing used cars from automobile auctions,
refurbishing used cars, and reselling them. The used car manager admitted that he had almost no
personal recollection of the purchase of the car or its resale so that he could not dispute theconsumers description of events.
1.See Bird v. John Chezik Homerun, Inc., 152 F.3d 1014 (8th Cir. 1998).
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18.1 Deposition of Used Car Manager
1
1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF MISSOURI
2 WESTERN DIVISION
3 [CONSUMER], )
4 Plaintiff, )
)
5 vs. ) No.
)
6 THOROUGHBRED FORD, INC., )
7 Defendant. )
8 DEPOSITION OF [WITNESS],
9 VOLUME I, Pages 1-133
10 produced, sworn, and examined on Tuesday, the 9th
11 day of April, 2002, between the hours of 8:00
o'clock in the forenoon and 6:00 o'clock in the
12 afternoon of that day at the Law Offices of Tyrl &
Hahn, 1100 Walnut Street, Suite 2950, in the City of
13 Kansas City, County of Jackson, State of Missouri,
before:
14
PEGGY E. CORBETT, RDR-CCR-CSR
15 Registered Diplomate Reporter
of
16 JAY E. SUDDRETH & ASSOCIATES, INC.
Suite 100
17 10104 West 105th Street
Overland Park, Kansas 66212-574618 a Notary Public within and for the County of
19 Jackson, State of Missouri.
20 Taken on behalf of Plaintiff pursuant to Notice to
Take Depositions.
21
22
23
24
25
2
1 APPEARANCES
2 For the Plaintiff:
3 THE BROWN LAW FIRM
Attorneys at Law
4 3100 Broadway, Suite 223
Kansas City, MO 64111
5 BY: MR. BERNARD E. BROWN
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6 For the Defendant:
7 LAW OFFICES OF TYRL & HAHN
Attorneys at Law
8 1100 Walnut Street, Suite 2950
Kansas City, MO 64106
9 BY: MR. LARRY J. TYRL
10 Also appearing: Mr. Bob Jachaway
11 INDEX
12 [WITNESS] VOLUME I PAGE
13 Direct Examination by Mr. Brown 3
Signature: 132
14 Certificate: 133
15 EXHIBITS
16 EXHIBIT PAGE
NUMBER DESCRIPTION REFERENCED
17
105 [Consumer] File 3
18 106 [Purchaser 1] File 3
107 [Purchaser 2] File 3
19
NOTE: The exhibits were retained by Mr. Tyrl and
20 are not attached hereto.
21
22
23
24
25
3
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 MR. BROWN: Let's make a record that
3 we've marked Exhibits 105, 106, 107. They're the
4 original deal jackets on the sale to [Consumer],
5 the dealings with [Purchaser 1] on this vehicle,
6 and the sale of the vehicle to [Purchaser 2]
7 respectively, 105, 106, 107.
8 We've just marked the yellow jackets, they
9 each have documents in them, 107, the [Purchaser 2] file
10 starts at Bates-stamp Number 1, and goes through11 Bates-stamp number 68; 106, the [Purchaser 1] file starts
12 at Bates-stamp 69, and goes through Bates-stamp 125;
13 and 105, the [Consumer] file, starts at Bates-stamp
14 126, and goes through Bates-stamp 187.
15 Does that sound correct, Larry?
16 MR. TYRL: That's what they're
17 supposed to be.
18 MR. BROWN: Yeah.
19 MR. TYRL: And while you're starting
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20 with the deposition, I'm going to go through and
21 check to make sure that there weren't any foul-ups
22 on marking the documents, but that was the intended
23 program.
24 [WITNESS],
25 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to tell
4
1 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
2 truth, testified as follows:
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. BROWN:
5 Q. State your full name for the record,
6 please.
7 A. [Redacted].
8 Q. [Redacted], is that your middle name?
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. TYRL: Let me state on the record
11 real quick. Looking at Page 10, the next page is
12 not numbered, and it goes to 11. So do you have any13 objection if I just write in with ink 10a?
14 MR. BROWN: Not at all. This is
15 Bates-stamp numbering for Exhibit 107 that you're
16 doing.
17 MR. TYRL: Right.
18 MR. BROWN: So we're marking the page
19 that's attached to Bates-stamp Number 106 -- wait a
20 second. It's attached to Bates-stamp number --
21 MR. TYRL: It follows 10.
22 MR. BROWN: We're marking that next
23 page as 10a. Okay.
24 MR. TYRL: And for the record, it's a
25 tax certificate.
5
1 MR. BROWN: All right.
2 MR. TYRL: Sorry.
3 MR. BROWN: No problem. And needless
4 to say, if there turns out to be some mistake in
5 numbering, we can deal with that.
6 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) [Witness],
7 have you ever had your deposition taken before?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Do you understand that I'm Bernard Brown,
10 I'm counsel for [Consumer], who has a suit
11 against Thoroughbred Ford?12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. If I ask you a question, because the court
14 reporter needs to make a transcript of whatever is
15 done here, I will ask you to adjust normal
16 conversation. You can't say "uh-huh" or "huh-uh"
17 and have the record be clear.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. You can't just nod or shake your head.
20 A. Okay.
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21 Q. So try to make sure that you use full
22 English words. "Okay" is fine, but "yes" or "no,"
23 something using English words. Okay?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Also if I ask you any question, and if for
6
1 any reason there's anything confusing about the
2 question, can we have an agreement that you will
3 stop me before you answer a question that is
4 confusing?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Do you understand that your testimony is
7 under oath?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Under the same requirements of law as if
10 you were present and testifying in a courtroom in
11 front of a judge or jury?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Do you also understand that a transcript14 will be made of this?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And under some circumstances portions or
17 all of the transcript may be read to the judge or
18 jury?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Where do you reside?
21 A. My address?
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. [Redacted.]
24 Q. All right.
25 A. That would be in Kansas City, Missouri,
7
1 64154.
2 Q. Are you married?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And your wife's maiden name?
5 A. [Redacted.]
6 Q. What's her first name?
7 A. [Redacted.]
8 Q. Do you have any kids?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. How many?
11 A. Three, sir.
12 Q. How old is the oldest?13 A. Six years-old, sir.
14 Q. Did you grow up in one locale, or did you
15 move around when you were growing up?
16 A. No, I just lived at my parents' house in
17 Kansas for 21 years.
18 Q. Okay. What city?
19 A. Kansas City, Kansas.
20 Q. Where did you go to high school?
21 A. Bishop Ward High School.
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22 Q. When did you graduate?
23 A. 1992.
24 Q. Did you have any schooling after that?
25 A. Yes, sir.
8
1 Q. Where?
2 A. Kansas City, Kansas Community College.
3 Q. All right. How long did you go to school
4 there?
5 A. A year and-a-half.
6 Q. Did you study anything in particular?
7 A. Fire science, computer engineering.
8 Q. Did you receive any kind of Associate's or
9 other degree?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Computer engineering, did you say?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Did you have any other schooling after
14 that?15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. Have you had any technical training of any
17 kind since you graduated from high school?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. When did you first do any work that
20 related in any way to cars or the automotive
21 industry?
22 A. Probably November of 1993.
23 Q. And what was that work?
24 A. I washed cars for Enterprise Rental
25 Services.
9
1 Q. In Overland Park?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. How long did you do that?
4 A. About 8 months, I believe.
5 Q. Was that the extent of your duties there,
6 washing cars?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. All right. Between when you graduated
9 from high school and November of '93 did you have
10 any employment?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. What was that?
13 A. I used to work at a grocery store.14 Q. Okay. Is that the work that you had up
15 until November of '93?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. So after you worked at Enterprise
18 Rental, what was the next -- walk us through your
19 employment history from Enterprise Rental up to
20 today.
21 A. I went with Thoroughbred Ford.
22 Q. When did you start with Thoroughbred?
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23 A. November of 1994.
24 Q. Okay. There's some four months in between
25 there. Were you unemployed for four months between
10
1 when you worked at Enterprise Rental, and when you
2 went to work at Thoroughbred?
3 A. No. I gave that as a rough estimate. I
4 can't remember exactly how long I worked.
5 Q. Did you leave Enterprise to go to work at
6 Thoroughbred?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Who hired you?
9 A. Steven Porter.
10 Q. Did you know him before that?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. And what was your position when you were
13 hired?
14 A. Salesman.
15 Q. Used or new?16 A. Both.
17 Q. Did you receive any training in car sales?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. You didn't have any background in car
20 sales when you went to work there?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. How did you go about selling cars when you
23 didn't have any training at all? You just walked
24 out on the lot and tried to interest people in cars?
25 A. Yes, sir.
11
1 Q. Who were your supervisors, people in
2 command over you?
3 A. At that time it would have been LeRoy
4 Adams, who was the General Manager at the time, and
5 then of course, Steve Porter, which is the owner.
6 Q. Were you under the New Car Manager and the
7 Used Car Manager also?
8 A. I think it was one and the same. The Used
9 Car Manager, I think was the other owner, which was
10 Roger Porter. He was the one that purchased the
11 used cars.
12 Q. Roger Porter was the Used Car Manager?
13 A. I guess that's what you can classify him
14 as.15 Q. That's how they had them divided up,
16 anyway?
17 A. Yes, as far as I know.
18 Q. Did Steve Porter have a position that you
19 understood?
20 A. He was the Desk Manager when I started.
21 Q. And the Desk Manager was over the General
22 Manager?
23 A. Yeah, he was the owner.
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24 Q. Okay. Was there a President?
25 A. I guess he -- I don't know how it works in
12
1 the corporation. I believe he would be the
2 President.
3 Q. But you don't know?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Okay. Do you know who was the
6 Vice-President or Secretary under the corporation?
7 MR. TYRL: At what point in time?
8 MR. BROWN: At the time that you
9 started.
10 A. I guess it would be Steven Porter would be
11 the President, and I guess the Vice-President would
12 be his brother, Roger.
13 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) But do you
14 know? You don't know?
15 A. No, I don't.
16 Q. Okay. So the only people you reported to17 were LeRoy Adams and Steve Porter at the time you
18 started?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And I suppose also Roger Porter on used
21 cars?
22 A. I don't know how you would classify that.
23 He purchased vehicles, and he was the Used Car
24 Manager. I never really reported to him directly.
25 Q. Was there a Finance Manager at the time?
13
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Were you under the Finance Manager's
3 supervision?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Who was the Finance Manager?
6 A. Bob Jachaway.
7 Q. Mr. Jachaway who is here?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Were there any other people whose
10 supervision you were under?
11 A. I really didn't know the chains of command
12 that well. All I knew is I just reported to Mr.
13 Porter each time I had a customer.
14 Q. By Mr. Porter, you mean Steve Porter?
15 A. Yes.16 Q. Okay. How long were you working as a car
17 salesman for Thoroughbred?
18 A. About four, four and-a-half years, I
19 believe.
20 Q. Okay. And your position then changed?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. To what?
23 A. Business Manager.
24 Q. Was there a Business Manager at
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25 Thoroughbred when you started in approximately
14
1 November of '94?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Who was that?
4 A. That would be the Finance Manager that I
5 mentioned, Mr. Jachaway.
6 Q. Mr. Jachaway?
7 A. (Witness nodding head affirmatively).
8 Q. The title that you use currently is you're
9 F&I manager, Business Manager?
10 A. Business Manager. That's what they called
11 it.
12 Q. You used the term Business Manager.
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. Make sure you say "yes" or "no" for the
15 record.
16 A. Yes, I'm sorry.
17 Q. In other car dealerships they will refer18 to F&I manager for the same position; is that right?
19 A. I don't know about the other dealerships,
20 sir. I just know about where I work at, and how
21 they do it.
22 Q. Have you heard of F&I?
23 A. Yes, I have heard of it. That's just not
24 what we classify each other as, just Business
25 Managers.
15
1 Q. Okay. So when did you start approximately
2 as Business Manager?
3 A. I believe in '98. I can't remember the
4 month or the exact date. All I know is it was that
5 year.
6 Q. The first part of the year, last part of
7 the year?
8 A. Probably the last part, I think.
9 Q. Weren't you the Business Manager at the
10 time this vehicle was sold to [Consumer]?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And I think the sale of the vehicle to
13 [Consumer] was -- I'm looking for a date on this.
14 In approximately July of 1998, isn't that
15 right?
16 MR. TYRL: 2000.17 MR. BROWN: Oh, July of 2000. I'm
18 sorry.
19 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) You were
20 Business Manager at the time of this in July of
21 2000?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. When you became Business Manager,
24 to whom did you report?
25 A. It would be to Mr. Jachaway at that time.
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16
1 Q. Anyone else?
2 A. Both the before-mentioned, Steve Porter.
3 Q. Steve Porter and Roger Porter?
4 A. Uh-huh. And at that time it was --
5 Q. Make sure you say "yes" or "no."
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. And you were saying "at that time"?
8 A. Also there was a Kent Holton there that I
9 reported to also.
10 Q. What was his position?
11 A. He was the General Sales Manager, I
12 believe. I don't know how they classified his
13 title.
14 Q. Was Mr. Holton working there when you
15 started in '94?
16 A. Yes -- no. He did not come aboard, I
17 think, until '97 or '98, I believe.
18 Q. Is he still there?19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. When did he leave?
21 A. I believe in '98 or '99.
22 Q. Do you know where he went?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Was he fired?
25 A. I think he just left. I'm not for sure.
17
1 I didn't -- that wasn't my decision, so I don't know
2 how it went down.
3 Q. But he was in the hierarchy something like
4 did you say General Sales Manager?
5 A. Or just Sales Manager. Again, I told you
6 I don't know how they exactly classified him. I
7 know he was like a Desk Manager at the time.
8 Q. But you were under him and the Porters and
9 Mr. Jachaway?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. At present you are under Mr. Jachaway and
12 the Porters?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Anyone else?
15 A. No, I guess that would it be for right
16 now.
17 Q. Is there anyone else at the dealership who18 has authority over you?
19 A. Probably LeRoy Adams. He's the New Car
20 Manager.
21 Q. How long has he been the New Car Manager?
22 A. He's been dealing with the new cars ever
23 since Thoroughbred opened, as far as ordering them
24 and everything, so for a long time.
25 Q. Well, were you under him when you began as
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18
1 Business Manager in 1998?
2 A. I don't know if I was -- see, there's
3 separate departments. Who I reported to directly
4 was Mr. Jachaway.
5 I mean I guess you could classify him as a
6 higher person, but I never reported to him. I guess
7 he would have authority. I mean that's different
8 departments.
9 Q. As things stand, do you know if there is a
10 President to the corporation right now?
11 A. It would still be Mr. Steven Porter.
12 Q. As far as you know?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. But you don't know if that's correct
15 necessarily or not?
16 A. No, not really.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. I don't know how the chain of command goes
19 with the people that actually own the dealership,20 no.
21 Q. And you understand Steve and Roger Porter
22 to have ownership interest in the dealership?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Anyone else?
25 A. To my knowledge, no. Those are the only
19
1 two.
2 Q. Is there a Porter -- a female person whose
3 last name is Porter, associated in any way with the
4 dealership?
5 A. There might be Mr. Steven Porter's wife.
6 Again, I don't know how that stuff is run.
7 Q. Do you know her name?
8 A. I believe her name to be Brenda.
9 Q. Do you recall [Consumer]?
10 A. No, I don't.
11 Q. Did you ever talk with her?
12 A. When I did the paperwork with her, yes, I
13 did.
14 Q. Do you recall any of the discussion with
15 her?
16 A. No, sir, I don't.
17 Q. Do you recall talking with her at any time
18 after her purchase?19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Are you aware that she indicates that she
21 came back to the dealership and talked to a man
22 about this vehicle, after she found out that it had
23 been wrecked?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. You had not heard that from anyone?
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20
1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. Have you talked with anyone inside the
3 dealership in any way in connection with
4 [Consumer]'s case?
5 A. Just why I'm here today, just that you
6 need to speak to me.
7 Q. You've spoken with people this week inside
8 the dealership about the fact that you're going to
9 be coming for a deposition today?
10 A. Just that I was supposed to be here. I
11 don't know anything about the particulars about
12 everything.
13 Q. Are you aware of the allegations that she
14 makes?
15 A. Not exactly, no.
16 Q. Did you know that she brought a lawsuit?
17 A. Right now I do with you here.
18 Q. When did you first find out? Just today?
19 A. No, it was a little while ago, but I
20 didn't really pay any attention to it, because it21 really didn't have anything to do with me. It's not
22 my job to know that kind of stuff, sir.
23 Q. Have you told anyone that you participated
24 in her deal?
25 MR. TYRL: You mean other than me?
21
1 A. Other than --
2 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) Well, when was
3 it you first knew that there was a lawsuit involving
4 [Consumer], approximately, to the best of your
5 recollection?
6 A. When I spoke to Mr. --
7 Q. Mr. Tyrl?
8 A. Uh-huh.
9 Q. Make sure you say "yes" or "no." Yes?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. How long ago was that?
12 A. Just recently.
13 Q. Recently could be twenty years or it could
14 be two minutes.
15 A. It's not two minutes or twenty years.
16 It's probably within the last couple of days.
17 Q. Okay.
18 MR. TYRL: Ben, do you also recall
19 meeting with me out at the dealership six months ago20 approximately?
21 THE WITNESS: About this case?
22 MR. TYRL: Uh-huh.
23 THE WITNESS: Then yes, I guess it was
24 six months ago.
25 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) You have no
22
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1 recollection of that meeting?
2 A. No, sir, not really. I can't remember
3 what I did yesterday sometimes. I just can't
4 remember that far back.
5 Q. Okay.
6 MR. TYRL: And you also met with me
7 yesterday, right?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
9 MR. TYRL: Okay.
10 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) Have you ever
11 had any training of any kind relating to car sales?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Have you ever had any training of any kind
14 relating to the work that you started doing in 1998,
15 the Business Manager work?
16 A. Just kind of hands-on training, watching
17 on how it gets done and everything.
18 Q. Who trained you or who was it that you
19 were watching, rather?
20 A. Mr. Jachaway at the time.
21 Q. Any other training of any kind associated22 with your work as Business Manager?
23 A. I went to MBPI, mechanical breakdown.
24 They had a class of business, for Business Managers.
25 Q. Mechanical Breakdown Protection Insurance?
23
1 A. I believe that to be the name. I think at
2 that time it was located in Lee's Summit.
3 Q. When was that?
4 A. Probably around 1998.
5 Q. Was it for an afternoon or how long was
6 it?
7 A. It was a couple of day training session.
8 Q. And what was the training about?
9 A. About how to talk to banks, how to get
10 people approved.
11 Q. To get them approved for MBPI?
12 A. To purchase a vehicle.
13 Q. How to talk to banks to get them approved
14 for purchase of a vehicle?
15 A. Yes, just different ways of how to present
16 a file, and everything like that to banks.
17 Q. So it wasn't really restricted to MBPI?
18 A. No. The MBPI was just the place that they
19 held the course.
20 Q. Who put the course on?21 A. I can't remember the instructor's name.
22 It's been awhile ago.
23 Q. Did you watch any training tapes?
24 A. Not that I can recall.
25 Q. Was it put on by a manufacturer like Ford
24
1 or was it put on by --
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2 A. It was just an instructor that went over
3 it.
4 Q. Okay. Did you talk about subprime and
5 prime lending?
6 A. I think it was just lending and
7 everything.
8 Q. Okay. Have you had any other training
9 relating to the work that you're doing other than
10 that two-day training at MBPI?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Have you read any materials at any time in
13 the course of your work that explained, told you how
14 to do any of your work?
15 A. Just different pricing sheets. Not to
16 tell me how to do it, just of what they were, like
17 different interest rates and different banks.
18 Q. Have you ever watched any training tapes
19 or tapes of any kind, videotapes that would teach
20 you anything about how to do anything related to
21 your work?
22 A. No, sir, not that I recall.23 Q. Do you have any manuals that you've ever
24 referred to in your work?
25 A. Manuals as far as --
25
1 Q. Like a how-to manual or an instructional
2 manual or a guideline manual or any kind of manuals
3 that you would refer to in your work?
4 A. I have guidelines as far as what banks
5 will do.
6 Q. Guidelines as far as what banks will do?
7 A. Uh-huh.
8 Q. Give me an example.
9 A. Like term, how they would approve
10 somebody, like by Beacon Spores, stuff like that,
11 different pricing on vehicles.
12 Q. B-e-a-c-o-n?
13 A. I guess that's how you would pronounce it,
14 Beacon Spores.
15 Q. Any other manuals of any kind that you
16 have available?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Name a bank for which you have a manual?
19 A. Ford Motor Credit Company.
20 Q. And the kinds of guidelines that it has in
21 it?22 A. Like mileage restrictions, term, like how
23 long you can go.
24 Q. How long the loan can go?
25 A. Yes, sir.
26
1 Q. Different classifications for like second
2 chance or lower quality credit risk people?
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3 A. Ford doesn't do second chance. They're
4 just Ford Motor Credit Company.
5 Q. How about Fairlane?
6 A. Yes, that's Fords subsidiary, a subsidiary
7 of Ford.
8 Q. And they do second chance?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Do you understand when I use the term
11 "subprime," have you heard that term before?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Do you understand that also to be
14 something that is referred to in the industry as
15 second chance?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Now does Fairlane do only second chance or
18 does it also do -- what would you call non-second
19 chance, anyway?
20 A. Prime.
21 Q. Okay. Does it also do prime? Does
22 Fairway also do prime lending?
23 A. No; it also depends on what you classify24 prime to.
25 Q. Does that vary from lender to lender?
27
1 A. It just depends on interest rate. I don't
2 have a set figure of what's prime and not prime. I
3 just go by interest rates.
4 Q. Has anyone ever instructed you on the
5 legal requirements about what documents have to show
6 in connection with a sales transaction?
7 A. Like the truth in lending?
8 Q. That would be one example.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Who's instructed you on that?
11 A. Mr. Jachaway has.
12 Q. Okay. So you learned that from him, and
13 not from watching him, but from him instructing you?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. Any other requirements that you
16 have ever been instructed in?
17 A. No, just get the person approved.
18 Q. Have you ever heard of the Federal
19 odometer law?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Have you ever been instructed about
22 Federal odometer statements?23 A. Never been instructed. I know we have to
24 do them. I guess that has been instructed for me to
25 do that, because that is part of the paperwork that
28
1 I have to do in a sale.
2 Q. Who was it that instructed you on that?
3 A. It would be Mr. Jachaway also.
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4 Q. Okay. How about titles? Has anyone
5 instructed you on how titles have to be handled?
6 A. No; titles aren't my job.
7 Q. You're not familiar with handling of
8 titles?
9 A. No, sir.
10 Q. You know nothing about it at all?
11 A. I know that there's a title to each
12 vehicle, but I don't know how to prepare a title or
13 anything like that. It's not my job. I don't do
14 that, sir.
15 Q. Do you routinely in your work see titles?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Are they typically kept in the deal
18 jacket?
19 A. As far as what kind of a deal jacket are
20 you talking about?
21 Q. Well, okay, these things that we've marked
22 as Exhibits 105, 106, and 107, what do you call
23 them?
24 A. Those would be the deal jackets, but25 before, they're just regular with no writing on it,
29
1 and the titles are kept in here.
2 Q. Okay. So the titles are kept in the deal
3 jackets?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. So typically you would see the titles in
6 the deal jackets when you're looking at documents in
7 the deal jackets; is that right?
8 A. These don't get to be deal jackets until I
9 have my own folder, and then when all the paperwork
10 is processed, then they go into the deal jackets.
11 Q. Okay. So the deal jacket is what's put
12 together when the deal is done?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Prior to that you have a folder; is that
15 right?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And what happens to the folders, the
18 folders themselves? Like these are manila folders?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. What happens to those folders?
21 A. I put all the documentations in there, and
22 they go upstairs, and they get sent to the banks.
23 Q. That's for financing?24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So the folders that you have relate to
30
1 financing?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. What about where somebody makes a cash
4 purchase? Is there a folder then?
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5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. What happens to those folders?
7 A. The same process.
8 Q. Well, it doesn't go to a bank?
9 A. It goes upstairs. I don't know what they
10 do up there. They collect the money, just like a
11 purchase. I don't get into any of the accounting or
12 billing or anything like that.
13 Q. Okay. Have you been involved in running
14 credit reports?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. You've never had any involvement in that?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Have you ever asked for --
19 A. When I sold vehicles.
20 Q. Okay. When you sold vehicles you ran
21 credit reports?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. And how would you go about doing that?
24 A. Getting on the machine and running them.
25 Q. Was there a particular computer that you
31
1 would use?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did every salesperson have to use the same
4 computer?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Was there only one computer in the
7 dealership that could be used?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Is that the same today?
10 A. No. I don't know how they do it today.
11 They have several different computers that do that.
12 Q. Okay. At any rate when you ran credit
13 checks as a salesperson did you have to get
14 authority to do that?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. From whom would you get that authority?
17 A. The customer.
18 Q. And did you get that in writing?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Always?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Were you trained to do that?
23 A. Yes, sir. I mean you had to do that.
24 Q. Who trained you?25 A. At the time the before-mentioned people
32
1 like Steven Porter and Bob Jachaway, when I first
2 sold vehicles.
3 Q. Okay. So I understood you earlier to say
4 that you didn't have any training relating in any
5 way to vehicles.
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6 A. Training means common sense. When you do
7 a deal, you have to get their permission. I never
8 have known otherwise.
9 Q. Okay. To a person who doesn't ever sell
10 cars, when you talk about a credit report and how
11 you run it and which computer you use and whether
12 you have to get authorization and to whom you have
13 to ask questions, that's hardly common sense.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. So you were actually explicitly trained in
16 how you ran the credit reports, what kind of an
17 authorization you had to have before you ran the
18 credit reports, and how you ran the credit reports;
19 is that right?
20 A. I was told. I don't know if I was
21 trained, but they told me how to do it.
22 Q. Okay. Do you remember who specifically
23 told you how to do it?
24 A. I do not, sir.
25 Q. Okay.
33
1 MR. TYRL: May I interject, because
2 it's obvious, it's apparent to me that there's a
3 miscommunication between you and the witness as to
4 what is meant by "training."
5 Could you be a little bit more specific or
6 explain what you mean by "training"?
7 MR. BROWN: Oh, I think I'll let you
8 clean that one up later, Larry. I think we've got
9 it pretty clear that any training that existed was
10 at least certainly not formal, and obviously the
11 witness can say that he was shown stuff, and so
12 within that ball park, I'll leave the record. If
13 you want to ask him questions, you can.
14 MR. TYRL: Okay.
15 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) You've had the
16 chance to review the [Consumer] deal file?
17 A. Not specifically. I looked at some of the
18 documents, the deal packets.
19 Q. Have you looked at them on all three of
20 these transactions?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Do you remember [Purchaser 2]?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. What do you remember about her?
25 Did you know her?
34
1 A. Not personally.
2 Q. Did someone else know her?
3 A. I believe her husband used to work for the
4 company a long time ago, or ex-husband, what have
5 you.
6 Q. Okay. So what do you recall of the
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7 dealings with [Purchaser 2]?
8 A. Just that she purchased a vehicle.
9 Q. Uh-huh. Do you remember that she bought a
10 vehicle from you?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you remember talking with her about
13 that transaction?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Do you remember talking with her about her
16 trade-in?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Do you remember getting any information at
19 all from her about the trade-in?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Do you remember knowing anything about the
22 trade-in?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Tell me everything that you can recall
25 about dealings with her of any kind.
35
1 A. I didn't do the paperwork on her, so I
2 wouldn't know.
3 Q. Okay. But you did talk with her?
4 A. I said "Hi."
5 Q. Did you know her to say "Hi"?
6 A. She bought a vehicle from us previously.
7 Q. Is that how you knew her?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. And you handled that sale?
10 A. I don't know. I remember this, though,
11 because she purchased a vehicle from us. I don't
12 know about her previous cars or anything like that.
13 I might have been selling vehicles back then.
14 I don't even know if I was in the Business
15 Department when she bought her other vehicles.
16 Q. But you remember [Purchaser 2]?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And to the best of your recollection you
19 remember [Purchaser 2] because what?
20 A. She purchased another vehicle, and I
21 believe I've seen her by the dealership the last
22 time that she purchased her vehicle, and that was
23 probably about it.
24 Q. You can't think of anything else?
25 A. No, sir.
36
1 Q. You don't remember anything else about
2 her?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Okay. How about [Purchaser 1]? Do you
5 remember [Purchaser 1]?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. And how is it that you recall
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8 [Purchaser 1]?
9 A. I did the paperwork on [Purchaser 1].
10 Q. Okay. Was his mother involved also in the
11 dealings?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Why don't you walk us through what you
14 recall of the [Purchaser 1] deal.
15 A. Could you explain how you want me to --
16 Q. We're trying to get all the information we
17 possibly can, so I'd like you to tell us everything
18 of any kind that you remember relating in any way to
19 the [Purchaser 1], the whole story, every detail you can
20 recall.
21 A. I remember them purchasing the vehicle,
22 and I did the paperwork on it, and I know they
23 backed out of the transaction because of payments.
24 The son couldn't afford the payments. That's the
25 only thing that I can really remember about them.
371 Q. You can't remember anything else?
2 A. Just that I did the paperwork, and I knew
3 they backed out on it.
4 Q. Did they say how much he could handle in
5 the way of payments?
6 A. As far as I knew, whatever they signed the
7 documentations for, that's what he could handle at
8 the time.
9 Q. I'm asking you from your recollection did
10 they say how much he could handle in payments?
11 A. No, not from my recollection, just from
12 what the contract states.
13 Q. When did you find out that they were, as
14 you put it, backing out?
15 A. I believe the next day.
16 Q. How were you informed; from them?
17 A. No, from the salesman.
18 Q. Who was the salesman?
19 A. That would be -- was it Sal that sold it
20 to them, I believe?
21 Q. What's Sal's last name?
22 A. Ishkuntana.
23 Q. Would you spell that, please?
24 A. I'll try.
25 MR. TYRL: I-s-h-k-u-n-t-a-n-a.
38
1 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) Is he still at
2 the dealership?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. So Sal told that you they were backing
5 out?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Did he explain to you why?
8 A. Over the payments.
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9 Q. Were you surprised?
10 A. At that time, I don't know if I was
11 surprised or not. I mean I do a lot of deals, and I
12 don't know. I wasn't surprised then, I guess.
13 Q. Was Sal under your authority?
14 A. I don't know if I have authority on
15 salesmen.
16 Q. Do you have any authority over any sales
17 personnel?
18 A. I mean I tell them if their deals are
19 approved, or what have you. I'm not directly their
20 boss.
21 Q. When Sal told you that they were as you
22 say backing out --
23 A. Uh-huh.
24 Q. -- who was in charge of what to do at that
25 time?
39
1 A. I was.2 Q. Okay. So you had authority about what to
3 do with the deal?
4 A. Yeah, yes, about the deal.
5 Q. Okay. And was this an every day thing
6 that someone would the next day say they were
7 backing out?
8 A. No, not really, sir.
9 Q. All right. And what did you tell Sal you
10 were going to do at that point?
11 A. Let them back out, and have them sign a
12 rescission saying they didn't want anything to do
13 with the vehicle anymore.
14 Q. And you told him that?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And what transpired next?
17 A. They came by and -- can I see that file,
18 because I think they signed?
19 Q. There it is. We're talking about Exhibit
20 106, the deal file.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now when you refer to documents, there are
23 the stamped numbers on the lower part of each
24 document. I'd like to use those.
25 Those are called Bates-stamp numbers, so
401 we're looking at documents in Exhibit 106.
2 A. Would it be the other one?
3 Q. You tell me.
4 MR. TYRL: For the record, Bernard --
5 MR. BROWN: Yes.
6 MR. TYRL: We did notice yesterday
7 when we were going through these deal jackets, that
8 some of the documents had been put in the wrong deal
9 jacket, and he's -- at what point in time that
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10 occurred I have no idea. I don't know whether or
11 not it was when somebody else at the dealership
12 looked at it, or when they were in my office, but
13 when we went over them yesterday we did note that
14 there were some documents that were in the wrong
15 deal jacket.
16 For example, I think this rescission deal
17 should be in the [Purchaser 1] file, and it's actually in
18 the [Consumer] deal jacket.
19 MR. BROWN: Okay. Well, let's just
20 make a record when we are dealing with something
21 like that. The sooner we can make a record, the
22 better, as to which Bates-stamped number pages
23 you're saying are in the wrong file, but at some
24 point if you could do that in a fairly comprehensive
25 way that would be useful. For now any time there is
41
1 something like that, please point it out to me.
2 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) So we're3 looking at Bates-stamped Pages 134, 135 through 138,
4 and these documents were here today, and
5 Bates-stamped numbered as being in the [Consumer] deal
6 file which is Exhibit 105, but you're saying that
7 they actually belong in the [Purchaser 1] deal file which
8 is Exhibit 106; is that right?
9 A. Uh-huh.
10 MR. TYRL: Is that correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) All right. Now
13 we were talking about what happened when Sal told
14 you that the [Purchaser 1] were backing out, this was the
15 day after the deal was done, and you said okay, as I
16 understand it; is that right?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And then you required a rescission
19 agreement; is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. And you were going to tell us what
22 transpired?
23 A. They signed the rescission agreement.
24 Q. Would you tell us what Bates-stamped page
25 number that is?
42
1 A. 00138.
2 Q. Okay. And had they taken the vehicle with
3 them for that one day, and then they returned the
4 vehicle? Is that what happened?
5 A. I don't know, sir.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. I don't know if they took possession of
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8 the vehicle or not. I wasn't involved in that part
9 of it.
10 Q. How did you decide whether you were going
11 to okay rescinding the deal?
12 A. We don't want an angry customer. We want
13 to keep them happy.
14 Q. That was how you decided in this case that
15 you would let them rescind the deal?
16 A. Uh-huh.
17 Q. Make sure you say "yes" or "no."
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Have there been other times when people
20 after a day wanted to bring the car back and you
21 said no?
22 A. Not that I can recall, sir.
23 Q. Was that "not that you recall," is that
24 what you said?
25 A. Yes.
43
1 Q. Okay. So as a standard practice would
2 your dealership, if somebody buys a car and comes
3 back and wants to undo the deal, you will let them
4 do that?
5 A. As far as I know.
6 Q. As far as -- is there somebody who would
7 know this better than you?
8 A. Probably. I don't make all the decisions
9 if they bring the vehicle back or not. I mean we
10 try and keep the customers happy and do anything to
11 keep that with the customers.
12 Q. As the Business Manager these past four
13 years would you have been the person that would have
14 been in charge of deciding if the vehicle would be
15 taken back?
16 A. Yes, if there was, but I can't recall if
17 there was anyone else that backed out.
18 Q. Okay.
19 MR. TYRL: Are you talking about your
20 deals or the dealership?
21 THE WITNESS: Just about my deals.
22 MR. BROWN: Well, now I'm going to
23 object. That was a coaching question. That
24 absolutely is something that I object to25 strenuously.
44
1 If you want to clarify other things, to
2 put a general state of clarification, take me aside,
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3 Larry, do it quietly out of the presence of the
4 witness.
5 MR. TYRL: I apologize, Mr. Brown, but
6 I was trying to keep it clear, but I will take you
7 aside next time.
8 MR. BROWN: Okay.
9 MR. TYRL: I'm not trying to coach the
10 witness. I'm trying to keep the record clear, and I
11 think there's some miscommunication going on between
12 you and this witness.
13 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) Was there
14 another Business Manager these past four years other
15 than you?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Who was the other Business Manager?
18 A. Daniel Fisher.
19 Q. Is he still there?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. So how many Business Managers do you have?
22 Two?
23 A. Right now we have, at this point in time,24 we have four.
25 Q. How many did you have when you started?
45
1 A. We just had two when I first started with
2 Thoroughbred.
3 Q. Who was the other one?
4 A. I really can't remember her name.
5 Q. You don't remember the name of the other
6 Business Manager that you worked with?
7 A. That I worked with? You said when I first
8 started back in 1994 or --
9 Q. No, I mean when you started as Business
10 Manager.
11 A. Oh, it would have been Dan Fisher.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. And Robin Mullinix.
14 Q. Robin is a he or a she?
15 A. A she.
16 Q. And where is Robin now?
17 A. I don't know where she works for now.
18 Q. Okay. And Mr. Fisher and who else are
19 Business Managers now?20 A. Myself, Robert Bledsoe, Andrew Mardini,
21 like Mardini Dy.
22 MR. JACHAWAY: With a D,
23 M-a-r-d-i-n-i.
24 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) Last name?
25 A. Dy.
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46
1 Q. How do you spell that?
2 A. D-y.
3 MR. JACHAWAY: That's his last name,
4 Mardini Dy.
5 A. D-y.
6 Q. And it's pronounced "Dy"?
7 A. Dy.
8 Q. I see, okay.
9 MR. TYRL: Are you at a good point for
10 a bathroom break?
11 MR. BROWN: Sure.
12 (Recess.)
13 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) Were you the
14 one who determined that [Purchaser 1] was qualified to
15 purchase the vehicle?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Now if [Purchaser 1] was qualified to
18 purchase the vehicle, and they said he couldn't make19 the payments, does that come as any surprise to you?
20 A. Not really, because he was qualified I
21 think with his mother, because his mother helped him
22 get the loan.
23 Q. Okay. Did you talk with anyone else in
24 deciding whether to accept -- let the -- let
25 [Purchaser 1] rescind the deal?
47
1 A. I think it was just my decision.
2 Q. You think?
3 A. I can't remember back then, but I think I
4 was the one that allowed him to bring it back,
5 because I just wanted to keep them happy. She
6 bought the previous vehicle from us. I just want to
7 keep customers happy.
8 Q. Did you ever talk with [Purchaser 1] or his
9 mother, [Purchr. 1's mother], about them bringing the vehicle
10 back?
11 A. Not that I can remember.
12 Q. Who prepared the rescission papers?
13 A. I did.
14 Q. Who had them signed? Did you have them15 signed?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. So they signed them in front of you?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. But you don't -- you talked to them
20 at that time, I presume?
21 A. At that time, yes.
22 Q. But you don't remember the discussion?
23 A. No. I just wanted to know if he wanted
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26
24 another vehicle that would work, or what kind of
25 payments, but that was about it.
48
1 Q. And this was done, what, the day after?
2 A. I believe so. I'd have to look on the
3 paperwork.
4 Q. Well, here's the paperwork. We're showing
5 you the rescission paperwork that you pulled out,
6 Pages 134 through 138 of Exhibit 105, and here is
7 the deal jacket, the [Purchaser 1] deal jacket.
8 A. I believe it to be the next day.
9 Q. Okay. Do you want to look at the
10 paperwork and see if that's correct?
11 A. From the looks of the paperwork, they
12 might have even come back that same night, because
13 it shows the 27th.14 Q. And the rescission agreement, what's that
15 dated?
16 A. The 27th.
17 Q. You're looking at Page 134, the
18 non-interest affidavit; is that right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. Look at Page 138. Isn't that the
21 rescission agreement?
22 A. Yes, I'm sorry.
23 Q. What's that dated?
24 A. It's got 7/10/2000.
25 Q. And you prepared it and it was signed in
49
1 your presence?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So is that the date it would have been
4 signed?
5 A. I believe. I don't know if I -- that's
6 not my handwriting on the date, so I'm not for sure.
7 All is I know is I signed it and they signed it.
8 Q. Would you believe that the 7/10 would be
9 correct?10 A. I wouldn't -- I believe it to be because
11 it was on there.
12 Q. You would believe it to be; is that
13 correct?
14 A. If it's on there, yeah.
15 Q. All right. So if the deal was rescinded
16 on July 10th, I want you to look at the documents
17 from [Consumer]'s file, and do you see the date on
18 [Consumer]'s installment contract?
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19 A. That's the 8th.
20 Q. 7/8?
21 A. Uh-huh.
22 Q. Can you explain to us why there's a
23 rescission with [Purchaser 1] that is dated two days after
24 the vehicle was sold to [Consumer]?
25 A. When I signed the rescission agreement, I
50
1 didn't put the date in. The date showed to be 7/10
2 but I didn't put that in there because I just did
3 the rescission agreement.
4 Q. Now do you believe the 7/10 agreement
5 might be wrong?
6 A. I believe it is.
7 Q. I'll represent to you that Ms. King told
8 us that it took weeks before the rescission actually9 happened. Do you have any information that would
10 lead you to disagree with that?
11 A. No, sir. I just believe it was the next
12 day. I mean I can't remember that far back.
13 Q. If it was on July 10th that that
14 rescission paper was signed, as you testified
15 appears to be the case earlier, can you explain how
16 that would happen, that a rescission agreement was
17 signed two days after the vehicle was sold to [Consumer]?
18
19 A. I really don't know.
20 Q. Is it possible that the vehicle -- that
21 the dealings with [Purchaser 1] and his mother
22 [Purchr. 1's mother] were, in fact, not concluded until after the
23 vehicle was re-sold to [Consumer]?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Okay. Were you involved in any way in
51
1 making sure that disclosures of damage on vehicles
2 would be given to purchasers if vehicles were known3 to have damage?
4 A. I do disclose damage on vehicles.
5 Q. How do you do it; in writing, orally,
6 both, how?
7 A. In writing.
8 Q. Okay. And what kind of a form -- do you
9 have a form that you use?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. What does the form look like?
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12 A. I don't have one in here.
13 Q. Okay. Would you describe it?
14 A. Just a description of damage.
15 Q. Is it 8 and-a-half by 11?
16 A. Yeah, it's about the size of a regular
17 piece of paper.
18 Q. Okay. And what is it -- is this form from
19 the Missouri Auto Dealer's Association, somebody
20 like that?
21 A. I don't know where it's from originally.
22 Q. But what does it say at the top,
23 Disclosure of Damage?
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. Is that a "yes"?
52
1 A. Yes.2 Q. Are you sure that that's what it says at
3 the top?
4 A. It's a damage disclosure. I don't know if
5 that's what it says at the top.
6 Q. Okay. And how long is the text, one
7 sentence, one paragraph, several paragraphs?
8 A. I believe it's a description of the
9 damage, and I sign and the customer signs.
10 Q. How long is the text; one sentence, one
11 paragraph, several paragraphs? What?
12 A. Probably a couple of sentences, because
13 it's got the connection with the purchase room, and
14 it's got the description of damage. I guess it
15 could be a paragraph if you write in a paragraph in
16 there, and then I sign it.
17 Q. And it has a place in there for you to
18 describe just what the damage is; is that right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. All right. Is your job to fill out what
21 that description is, and to make sure that that
22 document is given to somebody if you know a vehicle
23 has damage?
24 A. If I know the vehicle has been damaged,
25 yes.
53
1 Q. How do you get information that a vehicle
2 has been damaged? You don't physically look at them
3 yourself, do you?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. So you have a system where somehow you get
6 that information from someone?
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7 A. Sometimes it should be on the stock card
8 to where I look at it. If it hasn't, then I have to
9 go by maybe the salesman sees something, or what
10 have you, and tells me about it.
11 Q. Okay. Is the stock card in the deal
12 jacket?
13 A. Of which case?
14 Q. Well, here's [Consumer]'s deal jacket,
15 Exhibit 105.
16 Okay, what is the Bates-stamp number on
17 that?
18 A. 00183.
19 Q. Okay. That's the stock card; is that
20 right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Does it show anything about damage?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Who prepares the stock cards?
25 A. The salesman.
54
1 Q. Is the salesman responsible for putting
2 the notation on there that there's damage?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Does the salesman always know if there's
5 damage?
6 A. They're supposed to, with the customer.
7 Q. And who is the salesman who prepared that?
8 A. Jeff Potter.
9 Q. They're supposed to ask the customer if
10 the vehicle has damage?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Does the Used Car Manager look for damage
13 when they appraise the vehicles?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And if the Used Car Manager spots damage
16 on the vehicle do they make a notation on there?
17 A. They do not. It's on a separate bid slip,
18 I believe.
19 Q. It's on the bid slip; is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. Now Exhibit or Page 186 and 187 are
22 those bids slips on a vehicle?
23 A. Yes.24 Q. Those are actually the bid slips on the
25 vehicle that [Consumer] traded in; is that
55
1 correct?
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2 A. Yes.
3 Q. If the bid slip shows damage, do you make
4 sure that there's a disclosure of damage given to
5 the buyer?
6 A. I don't see the bid slip. I just see a
7 copy of the card.
8 Q. Okay. Let me make sure I have the system
9 straight. You, Business Managers are the ones
10 responsible to make sure that when there's known
11 damage on a vehicle, it's given in a written
12 disclosure to the buyer of the vehicle; is that
13 right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. That's the standard practice all the years
16 you've worked there?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And the way that you know about damage on
19 a vehicle, is from the stock card; is that right?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Is there any other source of information
22 that you review or are given?23 A. Just the stock cards.
24 Q. Just the stock cards. But you know that
25 the bid slips sometimes show damage.
56
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Why don't you look at the bid slips?
3 A. Because I look at -- because they're
4 supposed to be on here, sir. That's what I go by.
5 Q. They're supposed to be on the stock card?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. That's what you mean when you said on here
8 you were pointing to Page 183, the stock card; is
9 that correct?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Now is there somebody who's responsible
12 for making sure the damage that's noted on the bid
13 slip also gets transferred onto the stock card?
14 A. The salesman, sir.
15 Q. The salesman is responsible both to ask
16 the customer if the vehicle has damage?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And if the bid slip shows damage, the19 salesman is responsible for writing that on the
20 stock card?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. All right. Is there anyone else who has
23 responsibility for making sure that the bid slip
24 information gets transferred to the stock card?
25 A. Not to my knowledge, just the salesman.
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23 it, then yeah.
24 Q. It will be --
25 A. Sold retail.
59
1 Q. And what about major damaged vehicles?
2 Who decides whether those will be sold retailed or
3 wholesaled? Is it on a case-by-case basis?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Who decides what work will be done, if
6 any, on a vehicle that has major known damage?
7 A. Who decides on the work?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. The re-conditioning people.
10 Q. Okay. Is the Recon different from the
11 Service Department?
12 A. I think the Recon tells it where to go and13 stuff. I don't know exactly how it works. That's
14 not my department.
15 Q. Okay. Now if a vehicle, when the vehicle
16 is bid, does the Used Car Manager make a decision as
17 to whether the vehicle will be wholesaled or
18 retailed?
19 A. Yes. He would mark his opinion, I
20 believe, but again I don't know exactly how that
21 works. I'm just in the Business Department.
22 Q. Okay. Is there any other place that you
23 know of where records are kept showing whether a
24 vehicle has been damaged?
25 A. As far as my knowledge, just on the bid
60
1 slips, and on these, which is the 00183 on the bid
2 slips.
3 Q. The stock cards?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Are the salespersons trained as to what
6 information has to go on the stock cards?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Were you trained about that?9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Who trained you about that?
11 A. Mr. Jachaway.
12 Q. Okay. On this stock card there are two or
13 three kinds of handwriting.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. Do you know which of the things on the
16 stock card would have been written there by Jeff
17 Potter?
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18 A. I really can't remember his handwriting.
19 Q. Which parts would normally be filled out
20 by the salesperson?
21 A. Year, make and model.
22 Q. At the bottom of it?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And the received date?
25 A. Yes.
61
1 Q. And the stock number, who would write that
2 in?
3 A. The salesman.
4 Q. How about the part at the top that shows
5 "[Purchaser 2]: Bought from," who would have filled
6 that out?
7 A. The salesman.8 Q. And the salesperson would put the
9 salesman's name and the serial number on it?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Now there is on the right-hand side a base
12 number.
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. That's an appraised value, is that right?
15 A. The value, yeah, that's the value of it
16 before it goes through the shop and everything else.
17 Q. And that value comes from the bid slip?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. The column under that, "Jeff P," do you
20 see three entries there?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. What are those entries?
23 A. It shows, "Service department, Bodyworks
24 and Classy."
25 Q. What do those entries mean?
62
1 A. The Service Department, I think that's
2 where they take the vehicles, and do the service
3 work on them. Bodyworks is if it needs touchup, or4 if it's been wrecked, or they need to repair
5 scratches or something. Classy is like the detail
6 shop.
7 Q. Bodyworks is an outside body shop?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Not at your dealership?
10 A. Not to my knowledge, no.
11 Q. You have a body shop at your dealership,
12 though.
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13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Why would you have work done at Bodyworks,
15 instead of at your dealership?
16 A. I don't know, sir.
17 Q. Who makes that decision?
18 A. I believe it to be the Recon Department.
19 Q. What is the Recon Department? Is there an
20 office?
21 A. They're the people that tell the vehicle
22 to go here or there. They're responsible for where
23 it goes.
24 Q. Is there a Recon manager?
25 A. I don't know who the exact manager is.
63
1 There are three or four people that send them
2 different places. I don't know if one is a manager3 or not.
4 Q. Are they under the Used Car Sales Manager?
5 A. I guess you could say that. It would be
6 under a lot of people.
7 Q. Do they have titles, these people in the
8 Recon Department?
9 A. No, not to my knowledge they don't.
10 Q. Is there a Used Car Manager at the
11 dealership now?
12 A. I think it might be the Roger Porter that
13 purchases most of all the used cars.
14 Q. These Recon people are they under Mr.
15 Porter?
16 A. Well, yeah.
17 Q. Do they work in the same area? Where do
18 they work?
19 A. They work inside the sales office.
20 Q. The used car sales office, or is it all
21 one office?
22 A. It's all one office.
23 Q. Okay. Do they have a corner of it?
24 A. Yeah, they have a corner.
25 Q. And that's the Recon Department?
64
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And they're under Mr. Porter, Roger
3 Porter?
4 A. Everyone is underneath Mr. Porter.
5 Q. Okay. Is there anyone else they're
6 underneath? Are they under Mr. Jachaway?
7 A. They would probably be underneath Mr.
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8 Jachaway, too.
9 Q. Are they underneath you?
10 A. That's not my department. I mean I'm a
11 manager, but they're not --
12 Q. Normally on these stock cards would these
13 entries, like on this stock card, Number 183, are
14 the Service Department, Bodyworks and Classy entries
15 in the middle of that card towards the top, would
16 those have been written down by the Recon
17 Department?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. But you don't know who in the Recon
20 Department?
21 A. No, sir. There's a lot of different
22 people.
23 Q. Bodyworks suggests the possibility of a
24 vehicle having damage; is that fair to say?
25 A. Yes, sir.
65
1 Q. So did you, using this card, did you
2 prepare any damage disclosure?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Why not?
5 A. I didn't know the extent of the damage. I
6 think it was just a scratch.
7 Q. How did you know it was just a scratch?
8 A. Because on the -- I don't know if we had
9 to fix it for the customer, but I do remember there
10 was a scratch on it. I don't know if I had to
11 disclose a scratch or something like that.
12 Q. How did you know there was a scratch?
13 A. I think maybe the customer might have said
14 something, there might have been a scratch on it.
15 Q. [Consumer], the purchaser, might have
16 said --
17 A. When I was looking through the -- [Purchaser 1],
18 it showed there was a scratch on it, so
19 that might be what stuck in my head, that there was
20 a scratch on the vehicle.
21 Q. Do you regard it as your job to make sure
22 that all known damage on a vehicle is fully and
23 accurately disclosed to a prospective buyer?
24 A. Yes, sir.25 Q. So you're saying as we sit here today that
66
1 when you looked at that stock card, you didn't know
2 what damage it had. You just knew that there was
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3 reason to believe that it had damage?
4 A. I don't know when that was written on
5 there. It might have been written after the fact,
6 after the sale, or if they would have sent it down
7 there then or not. I don't know. I can't remember.
8 Q. Normally would entries by the Recon
9 Department be made before the vehicle is sold?
10 A. It just depends on how quickly it gets
11 sold. I don't know. If this sheet comes in to me
12 blank, I'm led to believe there's no damage. I
13 don't know if after the deal was done, or anything,
14 they were going to send it there or not. I don't
15 know.
16 Q. Couldn't you have taken the class and
17 looked at the bid slip?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Why not?
20 A. Because I had the copy of the card, and
21 that's what I go by.
22 Q. That stopped you from looking at the bid
23 slip?24 A. That's --
25 Q. The fact that there was a stock card, did
67
1 that prevent you from looking at the bid slip?
2 A. Yes, sir. I don't look at bid slips.
3 Q. Why not? Is it too much work?
4 A. No, it's not too much work. I just go by
5 off of this.
6 Q. And you looking at -- if those entries
7 were on there, you wouldn't have known how much
8 damage it had, correct?
9 A. If they were on there, correct.
10 Q. All right. Normally is Recon done before
11 a vehicle is sold or after you have sold a vehicle?
12 A. It just depends on how quickly it gets
13 sold.
14 Q. Don't you normally recondition a car in
15 order to sell it? Isn't that why you do
16 re-conditioning?
17 A. Normally, yes.
18 Q. So normally these entries would be on
19 there before the vehicle is sold, correct?20 A. Normally, yes.
21 Q. All right. Now was there another stock
22 card on this vehicle for these other -- for the
23 other dealer, or should there have been only one
24 stock card?
25 A. It just depends if one got lost or what
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68
1 have you.
2 Q. Ordinarily should there be only one stock
3 card on a vehicle?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. From when it's traded in, to when it's
6 re-sold?
7 A. Yes, but sometimes it might get lost, the
8 salesman might put it somewhere and might lose it,
9 we might have to do another one.
10 Q. Do you normally lose them?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Is the stock card normally kept in the
13 jacket?
14 A. Usually copies. The yellow cards don't
15 get pulled until the sale goes down.
16 Q. Now to your understanding are the vehicles
17 that are received on trade-in given an inspection to
18 look for the possibility of wreck damage before they19 will be offered for resale?
20 A. I don't know the process.
21 Q. Is it important at your dealership, so far
22 as you know?
23 A. As far as I know, yes, it's important.
24 Q. To make sure to find out if a damage has
25 damage before reselling it?
69
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. But you don't know what process is pursued
3 at your dealership, is that what you're saying?
4 A. Yes, because I'm in the business office.
5 It's a different department.
6 Q. When you worked there in sales, did you
7 have any idea of what was done to prevent -- to
8 check on vehicles that were going to be offered for
9 resale, to see if they had wreck damage?
10 A. Just by the bid slips and when they look
11 at them.
12 Q. So the bid slip was the main way that you
13 knew?
14 A. Yes.15 Q. As we speak today, is your standard
16 practice in your every day work that you don't look
17 at bid slips; you'll only look at the stock cards to
18 see if the vehicle has previous wreck damage?
19 A. I myself do, yes, just myself.
20 Q. You only look at the stock cards?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you think after our discussion today
23 perhaps you'll change that, and start looking at the
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24 bid slips, too?
25 A. I don't know. I will keep on looking at
70
1 the bid slips, or the yellow copies of the cards.
2 Q. We're going to take the time. The bid
3 slip, when a vehicle is received on trade, will that
4 accompany the documents that you have when you're
5 doing a deal to re-sell that vehicle?
6 A. Can you explain that to me? I'm sorry.
7 Q. If you're doing a deal to re-sell a
8 vehicle, a vehicle that's been received, Mr. A
9 trades a vehicle in, and you're reselling the
10 vehicle to Mrs. B.
11 A. Uh-huh.
12 Q. Will you have a copy of the bid slip in
13 your paperwork?14 A. No. In my paperwork?
15 Q. Well, in the paperwork that is available
16 to you relating to this vehicle.
17 A. I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding you.
18 Q. You're the Business Manager.
19 A. Uh-huh.
20 Q. You're working a deal to sell -- the
21 vehicle has been traded in by Mr. A; a couple of
22 weeks later you're selling it to Mrs. B.
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. The stock card is available to you? Is
25 that correct? Is that available to you?
71
1 A. The stock card is, yes.
2 Q. Okay. What other documents are available
3 to you?
4 A. When I sell a vehicle?
5 Q. Yeah.
6 A. Credit applications and so forth like
7 that, the paperwork.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. And maybe the bid slips to the deal. Like10 if a customer has a trade-in, then I'd have their
11 bid slip in there.
12 Q. Yes. Anything else? No other documents?
13 A. I don't know what you're asking me as far
14 as what kind of documents.
15 Q. Is the bid slip, when the vehicle was
16 traded in by Mr. A, you understand Mr. A traded the
17 vehicle in, and you're selling the vehicle to Mrs.
18 B?
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19 A. Uh-huh.
20 Q. The vehicle is bid when it's traded in.
21 That's when the bid is done, correct?
22 A. Uh-huh.
23 Q. And that's when the bid slip is prepared;
24 correct?
25 A. Correct.
72
1 Q. Is that available to you?
2 A. No. Well, I mean I can go and find it,
3 but it's not in the packet automatically, no.
4 Q. Where is it?
5 A. It's in the sales office.
6 Q. Okay. And what -- is it in a folder?
7 A. I don't know exactly. If it gets full, it
8 might go in the deal jacket upstairs, along with the9 title and paperwork for that trade-in.
10 Like if we don't trade for it, it stays in
11 the office, but if we do trade for it, I believe it
12 does go upstairs into its own separate deal jacket.
13 Q. Okay, so tell me where the bid slip goes,
14 if Mr. A trades a vehicle in and the bid slip is
15 prepared.
16 A. This slip goes in that deal, and when the
17 deal goes upstairs, I don't know how the process
18 works up there, who takes it or what, I don't know
19 how that process is, but I do know it goes upstairs.
20 I mean upstairs to the Business Office, as
21 far as billing out and title and stuff like that
22 goes.
23 Q. At the time that the bid slip is prepared
24 is the salesman present when that's prepared?
25 A. He's the one that fills it out.
73
1 Q. And the bid slip?
2 A. Uh-huh.
3 Q. I thought the bid slip was filled out by
4 the Used Car Manager.5 A. No. Someone has got to get the
6 information, like the VIN number, miles, and so
7 forth.
8 Q. Who gets the bid slip?
9 A. Roger Porter or Steven Porter.
10 Q. Okay. From Exhibit 107, the [Purchaser 2] file,
11 I'm looking at Page 65. Is that the bid slip on
12 this vehicle?
13 A. Yes, sir.
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14 Q. Page 67 and 66, are these different copies
15 of it?
16 A. I believe they're the same copy as the
17 copy G.
18 Q. On 67, do you see the circled "ACV"
19 written in the middle?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Who wrote that?
22 A. I guess Roger Porter. Those look like his
23 initials.
24 Q. Now there was an original of this
25 somewhere, because that's a carbon. Do you see
74
1 that's a carbon?
2 A. It looks like this would be the original.
3 Q. Well, except there's one problem. On the4 original that entry doesn't appear.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Do you have any idea how many parts are
7 there to that form, just two, white and yellow?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you have any idea how it happens that
10 that ACV only shows up on the carbon, but doesn't
11 show up on the original?
12 A. Because that's the way he writes it, and
13 then we write it on the back of the original.
14 Q. Of the original, the white copy?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Do you see those entries on this
17 page? I'll refer to Page 67. Do you see these
18 entries in the middle of the page, "Buyer's
19 Re-conditioning Report"? Do you see those?
20 A. Uh-huh.
21 Q. Make sure you say "yes" or "no."
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Would you read those, and tell us what you
24 understand them to be, and you can look at 66, if
25 that would help.
75
1 A. Yes, because that's a carbon. It has
2 something to do with the right side fender, the rear
3 quarter, and then we've got to Dr. Dent the hood.
4 Q. Something to do with the right side rear
5 quarter?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. If you knew of those entries, would you
8 have given a written disclosure of damage on this
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9 vehicle?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. What would you have written on a
12 disclosure of damage, if you knew of those entries,
13 or would you have inquired to get more information?
14 A. I probably would have inquired, and asked
15 exactly what was wrong with it, what would be listed
16 here, and I would take that, and just transmit it
17 over to the sheet that I have signed.
18 Q. So if you saw those entries that are shown
19 on Pages 66 and 67, that bid slip, you would have
20 inquired further to find out just what the damage
21 was?
22 A. Yeah. It looks like something with the
23 right side fender and rear quarter. As far as what
24 it was I would probably inquire just to make sure it
25 wasn't serious or what have you.
76
1 Q. Who would you ask?
2 A. I would probably ask the salesman or maybe
3 even the re-conditioning person to see if they might
4 remember it or something.
5 Q. Okay. And just with that information what
6 would you have written on a disclosure of damage?
7 A. I probably would have found out about it
8 before I wrote it down because it seems kind of
9 vague. I would want to make sure to get it exactly
10 right.
11 Q. Okay. By the way, do you know Mr. Potter
12 very well?
13 A. He was a salesman with us. I sold cars
14 with him.
15 Q. You are familiar with your dealership's
16 use of referrals from companies like Auto-By-Tel?
17 A. I know we use them. I don't know what the
18 process is on it, though.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. I know we have a separate department like
21 Internet Department, or what have you.
22 Q. Have you ever been instructed in what the
23 law requires about -- what the law requires with24 respect to running someone's credit report?
25 A. I have to have a signed application on it.
77
1 Q. Who instructed you on anything to that
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2 effect?
3 A. Back when I first sold vehicles, Mr.
4 Jachaway.
5 Q. Okay. And that's your understanding
6 through this date, that you've had that
7 understanding all along that that's required?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. I may have asked you this and bare with me
10 if I'm being repetitious. I just want to make sure
11 I understand. Over the last four years have you run
12 credit reports yourself?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Have you asked anyone else to run credit
15 reports on occasion for you?
16 A. No.
17 Q. You've not been involved in running credit
18 reports?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. And who would we talk to to find out about
21 that, about running of credit reports by your
22 dealership?23 A. Probably the salesman. He could probably
24 tell you how to do that.
25 Q. Is there a manager in charge of credit
78
1 reports, requesting credit reports?
2 A. We don't have per se a credit report
3 manager, no.
4 Q. Is it important to your understanding at
5 your dealership to comply with Federal law in
6 pulling credit reports?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Do you get that information from -- is
9 that made clear by the Porters that you're to be
10 complying with Federal law?
11 A. Well, yes.
12 Q. Okay. So they would be aware of what the
13 procedure is?
14 A. The Porters or the salesmen?
15 Q. The Porters?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How do you keep up to date on what the
18 legal requirements are with respect to your work?19 Do you get publications from the State dealers, the
20 dealer licensing people in Jeff City?
21 A. We do get some sometimes like that Graham
22 Leach billing deal, we were told about that.
23 Q. Graham, Leach, Blighly?
24 A. Yeah, I'm sorry, if I'm pronouncing it
25 wrong or said it wrong.
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79
1 Q. You were told about that by something that
2 you got from the State?
3 A. From the State, and it was passed from the
4 State to Mr. Jachaway, and Mr. Jachaway went over it
5 in the meetings with us --
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. -- in our Monday morning meetings or
8 Saturday meetings.
9 Q. All right. And do you get any other
10 bulletins of any kind from any dealer organizations
11 that would help you keep up-to-date on the law?
12 A. Again, like I said, when we got those one
13 forms, the Graham, Leach billing whatever it was,
14 they do inform us when we do get certain bulletins,
15 and stuff like that.
16 Q. Who's "they"?
17 A. Whoever receives it gives it to Mr.18 Jachaway, and Mr. Jachaway goes over it with the
19 salesmen and the Business Managers in the meetings.
20 Q. Okay. On this [Consumer] deal, there were
21 credit reports pulled with respect to [Consumer];
22 is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And would those have been with your
25 paperwork at the time that you were dealing with
80
1 her?
2 A. The credit application, yes.
3 Q. And you how about the credit reports?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Who would have put those in the file?
6 A. The salesman.
7 Q. Mr. Potter?
8 A. In which case?
9 Q. I'm sorry, the salesman on this, Gene
10 Burgen sold this to her, didn't he?
11 A. To [Consumer], yes.
12 Q. Okay. By the way, do you know Gene
13 Burgen?14 A. I've worked with him. I don't know him
15 personally.
16 Q. Has he been fired?
17 A. I don't know what the reason for him
18 leaving was, but I know he doesn't work for us
19 anymore.
20 Q. Do you know where he works now?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Do you know anybody who is personal
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23 friends with him?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Okay. Give me some idea of the volume of
81
1 referrals you got from people like Auto-By-Tel over
2 these past four years.
3 A. Over the past four years, what kind of
4 number?
5 Q. Yeah.
6 A. I really couldn't tell you to be honest.
7 I couldn't tell you.
8 Q. Who handled those, the referrals, who
9 would have received them?
10 A. I know Auto-By-Tel is by the internet. I
11 don't know if the Internet Department would have
12 received those or the salesmen.13 Q. There's an Internet Department?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Who is in charge of that?
16 A. I believe the name is Dale Peters.
17 Q. Dale Peters?
18 A. Uh-huh.
19 Q. Make sure you say "yes" or "no."
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. How long has Dale Peters been with the
22 dealership?
23 A. Three or four months.
24 Q. Do you know who was in his position before
25 that?
82
1 A. Jim Moshier, was it, beforehand?
2 MR. JACHAWAY: I can't answer that.
3 MR. BROWN: Well, if you know you may
4 as well tell me.
5 MR. TYRL: You mean it's okay if he --
6 MR. BROWN: If he pipes up with
7 information like, that we're trying to sort out that
8 should be in interrogatory answers, yeah.9 MR. JACHAWAY: Oh, well, I didn't
10 know that or I could have assisted you on several
11 occasions.
12 MR. BROWN: Okay.
13 MR. TYRL: Mr. Brown is being somewhat
14 facetious, but if you recall the name of the --
15 MR. BROWN: Internet Department
16 person.
17 MR. JACHAWAY: Well, we've made quite
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18 a few changes, and Mr. Peters is one of them. He's
19 over the department.
20 We've had a couple of salespeople with the
21 title of Sales Director in that department, and the
22 one that oversaw the department at that time was
23 really Andy Marinaro, and then since some of our
24 process changes that we put into place, we brought
25 Mr. Peters in.
83
1 MR. BROWN: Okay. Is Andy Marinaro
2 still there?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) Who handled
5 requests to banks or lenders with respect to
6 [Consumer]'s purchase?
7 A. Who called in her deal to the banks? I8 did.
9 Q. Yeah, okay. You have the paperwork from
10 her deal jacket available to you?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Can you -- why don't -- I would suggest we
13 take a break to give you long enough to look through
14 it.
15 You haven't had a chance to look through
16 this deal jacket recently?
17 A. I looked through it, but I didn't look at
18 anything in particular. I was just trying to
19 familiarize myself with the deal.
20 Q. I'd like to take a break long enough to
21 give you long enough to look through this, and
22 pretty well familiarize yourself with the financial
23 dealings, because I want to ask you questions about
24 what happened, who you contacted, who the financing
25 was with, everything.
84
1 MR. TYRL: Why don't you pull out
2 everything related to the financing.
3 (Recess.)4 Q. (CONTINUING BY MR. BROWN) We're back
5 after a break.
6 You've had time now to look through
7 [Consumer]'s file, Exhibit 105, to look at the
8 documents related to doing the deal, the pricing,
9 the c
