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LUTHERAN PASTORAL THEOLOGY & PRACTICE

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>> DAVID: Hello, Professor Warneck and Professor Senkbeil. My name is David.

I want to ask a very obvious first question which touches upon the goals of this course. How should I understand this subject, pastoral theology?

>> DR. WARNECK: David, you have raised a good question for every pastor wants to know how the things he studies are useful for his pastoral ministry.

I want to assure you that pastoral theology fairly well undergirds most of the things that you and your colleagues will be doing in the pastoral office.

As athletic teams have their playbooks and as umpires and referees follow certain guidelines in the sports world, pastoral theology serves as a guide to the pastor.

First let's look at the term itself, "pastoral theology." And let's take the second word initially "theology."

Theology is the doctrine and the knowledge of God and divine things, as Dr. Fritz, a long-time teacher of this subject has stated. You are a student of theology. And so you're very much in the picture here, David.

Pastoral ministry is about many things, as you have already discovered -- disciplines and tasks, making judgments, helping your people make decisions.

In your practice as a pastor, you are never far

removed from theology. Our ministry rises from a foundation of God's revelation disclosed in his word, the holy scriptures, Jesus Christ himself the chief cornerstone, as the apostle Paul puts it in Ephesians chapter 2.

Hardly a casual reference, the apostle Paul points young pastor Timothy to the scriptures, given by inspiration of God for the purpose of leading souls to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. Furthermore, the scriptures serve a primary purpose to equip Christians and pastors, too, men like yourself, Dave, for Godly living.

2 Timothy 3:15-17. Jesus said, "Whoever hears his words and does them is like a wise man who builds his house not on sand but on a rock."

We want to build our pastoral ministry on a solid foundation. And that solid foundation is theology. As we said before, the knowledge of God and divine things as disclosed by God in his holy word.

"You must believe that God himself speaks in the Bible," said Dr. Martin Luther. "And your attitude must be in accord with that belief." A faithful pastor is a man of the book. He is a spokesman for God and his word.

You see, David, our ministry is really not our own. We converse this way. We speak about my ministry, his ministry, our ministry. But our ministry is not our own. All is of the spirit.

"And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught but the spirit," exclaimed St. Paul in 1 Corinthians verse 2.

This leads then to the second part of our subject, the pastoral part, pastoral theology. The term "pastoral" denotes the character and the task of a shepherd. A pastor, shepherd of souls, who watches and cares for them in the likeness of Christ our good shepherd. Such an undershepherd of our Lord applies the word of God to the spiritual needs of the flock.

David, sometimes it may be a wake-up call of the law in the face of the sins that surface in the fellowship or in the life of an individual sheep in our care.

But then the comfort and assurance that God forgives for Jesus' sake, the Gospel, is also part of our pastoral care and a very significant one, of course.

Furthermore, help and guidance, also wisdom derived from God in his word, will help the pastor lead and guide and support the people in his care.

The pastor has a word from God for all times in the lives of his people. Not a mechanical thing. But skillfully now and with patience and Christian love, the pastor places the word and divine wisdom upon the hearts of the people. He leads the flock by

principles which are rooted firmly in God's word. And the Lutheran Confessions help the Lutheran

pastor to stay the course consistent with the scriptures. Engaging theology day-to-day both individual study and preparation for formal preaching and public teaching, the word is ever forming and shaping the pastor himself with attitude and aptitude for pastoral ministry, shepherding souls.

David, we summarize in the words of Dr. Fritz who wrote, "Pastoral theology is theology or the doctrine of the knowledge of God and of divine things applied by the pastor, the spiritual shepherd to the spiritual needs of his flock."

Now, may we emphasize, David, once again that the pastoral ministry is not our own profession, even though we pour ourselves into it. Nevertheless, its thrust is from sound theology and no other source.

And in this regard Dr. Fritz continues. He says, "Pastoral theology being theology is not idle speculation or a system of manmade theories and rules but has its source in the word of God and states the eternal truths and the divine unchangeable principles which should be faithfully applied to the spiritual needs of men."

David, briefly, we have introduced our subject on its own terms. Pastoral theology.

Similarly, a theologian from another tradition helps our understanding. Dr. James Hoppin, professor at Yale University in the late 19th century, determined that pastoral theology is on the one hand a science and then it is also an art. By the term "science" Hoppin means that pastoral theology embraces the underlying principles of pastoral work. By the term "art" Hoppin means those external and somewhat flexible or even subjective use of those principles toward a certain goal or end.

So the term "science" refers to the principles of our pastoral ministry. The term "art," as Hoppin uses it, refers to the flexible use of those principles in application to the people and their needs.

Distinguished here then are two elements -- theory and practice. Our Lutheran understanding, of course, cites the source of both the science and the art, namely, the word of God.

Hoppin's definition is clear and helpful when we consider other professions by comparison. For instance, the surgeon has mastered the science of his profession. He applies the principles carefully. But the surgeon, before entering the operating suite, he discovers all that is possible to know about the patient's internal condition. He administers a battery of tests and scans. And with the knowledge from those instruments, he goes forth to the surgical procedures. And in his work he minimizes

shock to the patient, and he fosters the most rapid postoperative recovery and healing.

Now, all of these factors pertain to the science of doing surgery. But there is also an art in this work, as you well know. The facility of the surgeon with his instruments, the turn of the hand, the pace of intricate moves. These comprise the art, if you will, as does the prompt response and quick thinking and critical decisions when unforeseen complications arise. Handling those "surprises" which surgeons encounter is the essential art of their profession.

Working from principles to practice both the science and the art is essential for the Christian pastor as well.

David, you know how it is. A pastor can have command of his theology to meet most every question or situation. And he combines with that knowledge the skill to translate and interpret theology in a helpful manner.

For example, a pastor comprehends clearly the proper relationship between husband and wife in marriage, according to the order of creation. He's very familiar with those principles. He understands that life for the couple within this divine order is happy and fulfilling when it is complemented by selfless love serving one another. He comprehends the headship and the submission principle expounded by the apostle in Ephesians chapter 5. This is a science, in Hoppin's terms.

Still, when the pastor faces the couple planning their wedding and the young lady sitting before him in his office hesitates and even refuses to recognize any reference in the marriage rite to submissiveness of the wife to her husband and the young lady wishes to delete those phrases from the marriage rite, the challenge to help this person beyond her sensitivities to acceptance of the divine order, that, I submit, is in the realm of the art of which James Hoppin speaks.

So I hope, David, that you can see how helpful these clear terms, science and art, that James Hoppin has given us is helpful to comprehending the nature of our subject as it relates to our day-to-day pastoral ministry.

Now, we should mention a more contemporary and modern model for pastoral theology, one that was advanced by Don S. Browning in his work, "A Fundamental Practical Theology." That was the title of his work.

Now, Browning's understanding of our subject seems to operate with the notion of reality in process. Active and moving. Thus, pastoral theology, in Browning's view, is a subject that is ever moving, changing, and adapting.

Instead of norms, texts, scriptures, confessions having the authoritative and final word for the practice of the

ministry, Browning suggests that practical theology begins with the church's experiences in its present situation. And those experiences, Browning asserts, compel new and different meanings from the sources which are then to be applied.

Now, this may sound somewhat complicated and probably sounds like an inversion, if you will, of our previous discussion from Dr. Fritz and earlier, Walther in our tradition, and James Hoppin from Yale University. Browning's approach is very situational. And that is different. It is also a concern for pastors in a confessional church where you and I are serving.

If essential theology as norm, God speaking to us in his revelation, is pliable or even vulnerable, depending upon the situation, if the eternal truths and unchangeable principles, to take the phrase from our Lutheran fathers, are subject to revision generation to generation, how shall the pastoral ministry in practice help the church steer through troubled seas and modern times?

Please understand we are not here advocating an authoritarian top down style of pastoral ministry. Not at all. We have emphasized that pastoral theology is about patient and skillful use of those divine norms, indeed. And the Gospel prevails. The love of Christ constrains.

Our approach is evangelical. That is, it is loving, caring, sensitive in serving Christ's people whom he loves and for whom he died out of his great love. This is the proper understanding of our subject, pastoral theology.

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LUTHERAN PASTORAL THEOLOGY & PRACTICE LPTP-2


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>> DAVID: Thank you, Professor Warneck. So do I understand you correctly? Will pastoral

theology help me to serve well as a Christian pastor? I've been enjoying my service to my congregation

here in Cleveland very much. And I look forward to the day when I can serve this church as a full-fledged pastor. So, if this course can help me continue to serve well and faithfully, I'm excited.

>> DR. WARNECK: David, you are serving God's people in the capacity of a Christian pastor. And you are doing things already very well. This course perhaps will help you sharpen your ministry from the standpoint of sound theological principles.

And, when your ministry is consciously happening in many instances according to principles, theology, then I submit you're going to find much more satisfaction in your ministry and you're going to be assured that your ministry is on the mark with your people.

I'm convinced that this course will help you in that direction. So it is -- it's proven to be a profitable course in study. And I'd like to pursue your question further this way: Many pastors are greatly relieved when they discover that they are not out there on their own, that God's word speaks very clearly to various issues and satisfies many concerns.

The forthright teaching spares us as pastors of making arbitrary or subjective decisions. That's so very agonizing,

as I'm sure, David, you have already discovered at times. Even when application of a direct word from the

scriptures or the confessions is not clearly apparent, still those norms serve us with principles or implications which spare the pastor of simply winging it on his own.

In some respects, pastoral theology is a court of appeal, if you will. When facing a host of difficult issues or questions, you will discover how pastoral theology supports you in working through those issues.

We should alert you to the use of terms once again. There are certain terms that are the property of every profession. We have already discussed the term "pastoral theology."

But frequently our Lutheran fathers put the meaning of those terms a little different way. In fact, there are three Latin words that will prove helpful to us if we can grasp them and the substance of their meaning. Those are this little phrase habitus practicus theosdotos.

At first glance we may translate the term "habitus," the Latin term "habitus" and render it as habit. Well, that's not far from the mark, except that commonly the word "habit" in our usage refers to a repeated action or in earlier times it prescribed a manner of dress. We are using the term "habit, habitus" a little differently.

In reference to pastoral theology, the habitus, as Dr. Fritz states, is a disposition of the soul or the heart, which makes the pastor a sufficient man for the performance of his pastoral duties.

Now we all want to be up for our ministry. And we want to be effective in our ministry. I'm sure those concerns are yours as well, David. So this term "habitus," meaning the disposition of the pastor within, can be very significant.

St. Paul refers to this sufficiency for ministry because God in his divine mercy had made him qualified to be a minister of the Gospel. That's how he expresses it in II Corinthians 2 and the early verses of chapter 3. Undoubtedly, readiness and preparation for the pastoral ministry is neither innate nor even acquired. Rather, it is a gift from God.

That's difficult for us to comprehend. We are so involved in study and preparation and those disciplines that we are led to believe, David, that acquiring the aptitudes for being a Christian pastor is really very much on our own. Yet, through the entire process we rely entirely upon God's giving those aptitudes necessary to be an effective pastor.

And that's what the term "theosdotos" Means, the Latin term. Our ministry and aptitudes for it is a gift from God.

Thus, with a sense of abandonment, St. Paul disparages any notion that he was an apostle of Jesus by his own

ambition or initiative. Still, he is established and assured about his calling, as indeed he should have been.

He speaks to this point. "Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God," says St. Paul. "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us. Our sufficiency is from God who has qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant." II Corinthians 3:4-6.

David, this God-given thing, that habitus theosdotos, has been understood variously. What does it really mean? What does it come down to, Dave? It is the heart of the pastor. A man in Christ. His ability to be a pastor. His know-how, his aptitudes.

Can we put it this way: This habitus or aptitude, our disposition is kind of the sixth sense of the pastor. One who has the right word from God at the right time and one who possesses the bearing of a man of God among his people. His ear is attuned to God's word while he is consciously aware of the needs of his people. He lives among his people as a shepherd, as a leader, as one who cares for them.

Added to this term "habitus" is the word practicus. And of course that Latin term has the sound of practice. It refers to the work of the pastoral ministry. And the Holy Spirit who grants the habitus also grants the practicus.

You see, the scriptures are rather clear about what the priorities of the pastor's ministry really are. They speak clearly about such things as worship and preaching, teaching, caring for souls, possibly also leading.

And we have citations from the New Testament that apply to each of those disciplines. Perhaps in our notes we might share those specific passages so that we can anchor our work as a pastor, practice the practicus in the scriptures themselves.

Furthermore, we should add that beyond the pastor's actual work, our Latin terms embrace the pastor's life. And about that there's going to be much more said in a later unit of the course.

Suffice it to say at this point in all of the pastor's labors, as in the instance of St. Paul, our lives are examples and models to others. That's terribly significant.

The apostle encouraged Timothy to be a good example as he also did Titus. And his own exemplary life is part and parcel of his teaching and preaching. And so he encouraged, for instance, Titus to do the work of the ministry setting the flock an example of Godliness.

So our fathers have brought all of this together, many thoughts on the pastoral ministry or pastoral theology expressed in those three little Latin words -- habitus practicus theosdotos.

Because our subject or discipline is essentially and foremost theology, David, it will serve well and without question.

Again, one of our fathers, Dr. Fritz, states it this way: That pastoral theology is especially designed to be a guide to the pastor or ministry of the church in the faithful performance of his official duties.

Now, earlier, those duties of the pastor were stated in terms of applying theology to the spiritual needs of the flock of the church. I've digressed for a moment here in summary.

But now, David, I'd like to focus on those spiritual needs of the flock. What are they? What are they principally?

Now, the people and their expectations of the pastor will be somewhat of an agenda in speaking their needs from their perspective.

I want to suggest, however, here that our theology helps frame those needs. And there are essentially three principle needs we would like to focus on briefly at this point in our presentation.

The first is the soteriological need. That's a big word that simply means pastors have concern that some souls in their care are saved, that they're led to eternal salvation through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, that seems to be very obvious. And yet I submit, David, that as pastors, sometimes we work day to day and week to week and month after month give very little concern to this particular special need.

I sometimes raise the issue with classes here on the campus and it this way. Now, when you young men begin your ministry at the congregations where you are called, will you be asking yourself the question at the beginning of your ministry how many souls here will be led to Christ and by faith in him to eternal life?

I think a pastor should have some of those savific goals, if you will, for the people he serves. Now, I would simply ask you to take note of how this salvation need is very paramount in the early ministries of the apostle and his tenants or his successors, Timothy and Titus.

We have a few passages from those very pastoral epistles that illustrate the priority of this particular spiritual need to which we minister in the flock.

Here's St. Paul. He says, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners." I Timothy 1:15. Now that's a cue for a ministry to persons like the entire human race are bound in sin. In I Timothy 2, the apostle announces, "There is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus who gave himself a ransom for all." And then he adds, "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle, a teacher of the Gentiles." So Paul asserts that the salvific concern is a priority in his ministry.

"Therefore, I endure everything for the sake of the elect," he goes on. "That they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus toward eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2, verse 10.

We just cannot omit to the reference in the great epistle for Christmas day. You will read it frequently in your ministry every time Christmas comes along in our calendar.

From Titus chapter 2, "For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men awaiting on blessed hope the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ who gave himself to redeem us from all inequity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds."

David, what do you want for the people you serve as pastor? That's kind of a heart-to-heart question that all pastors address. Now, may the salvation of souls be your foremost desire for them.

Now, I said there were three priorities in the spiritual life of our people. The second might be this: Proper care for the spiritual life of God's people in order that they might lead a Godly life. We call this sanctification.

Consider the apostle's exhortation to Titus in chapter 3 verse 8. This is a passage that fairly well escapes our attention many times. But this is an impassioned plea by the apostle as he writes to Titus. "I desire you," he says, "to insist on these things so that those who have believed in God may be careful to apply themselves to good deeds. These are excellent and profitable to men."

And you can add Romans 12:1 and 2. Where Paul writes to the Christians there, "I appeal to you, therefore, by the mercies of God present your bodies as living sacrifices to God, holy and acceptable to him. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind," and so on.

And then in other parts of the New Testament in Paul's letters to other congregations, for instance in Philippians 1:27 and following, he indicates that the Christian pastor will do everything to prevent among his people wholesale capitulation to evil. He will encourage and exhort the flock to Godly living.

David, I wonder if there is enough of this kind of encouragement in our preaching and teaching in the Lutheran church. We certainly are oriented to proclaim the Gospel of justification by grace through faith in Christ. That's absolutely essential. And, of course, that is the starting place for our exhortations toward Godly living. But those exhortations must be there.

I submit it's one of those three priorities in the spiritual needs of our people. And our people are hungry for guidance and for support as well as direction in the living of their daily Christian

lives. Now, a third spiritual need we may say is

eschatological. In this that the pastoral ministry is always pointing God's people forward but also upward in hope and anticipation of Christ's coming in glory. The pastor reminds his people that we are a pilgrim people. We on our way and that our Lord in his good time will meet us on the road and receive us to himself in glory and in heaven with him and the Father and the Holy Spirit and the great fellowship of the communion of saints in the church triumphant.

So people will live their lives not only for today or for some vague tomorrow but always toward the eschaton, toward the end. And this, I submit, is one of the deep spiritual needs of our people which the pastoral ministry consciously addresses now and then.

Well, by way of conclusion of this first subject of pastoral theology and its usefulness for men like yourself, David, we simply want to say that pastoral theology, on the one hand again, is theology giving rise to the principles for our work; and, on the other hand, it is very practical and very useful in the lives of the people that we serve.



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>> NICK: Dr. Senkbeil and Dr. Warneck, I too am pleased to be here. I serve in a deeply urban church in central Los Angeles. We have great diversity in both our congregation and the surrounding area. And I guess my first question is prompted by the presence of so many Christian churches in this city.

Here in the L.A. area there are numerous nondenominational churches served by laymen with no seminary training or preachers with very little formal education in theology.

What qualifications should a man have if he is to serve in the pastoral office?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Well, Nick, it's a privilege to be able to teach you, for Dr. Warneck and I to be available to you in this way in this medium. And we're very, very interested in exactly that, in helping you understand the duties of the office, the qualifications of the office, and a number of the areas of pastoral practice and pastoral theology.

Probably in order to directly answer to your question, one has to begin by saying this: That the office of the ministry is not something merely that someone volunteers for.

In the Lutheran church we've insisted on having training for this office and certainly a call extended by the congregation so that a man may properly enter into this office. The training is not so that we could be on a pedestal, a cut above the rest of the people, if you will. But rather that's so we might be

thoroughly equipped to do this challenging and daunting task. And so it is that we insist on a course of study or

preparation so that in all the areas of theology that is exegetical or biblical, historical in terms of systematic or doctrinal, and then also in the area of practical theology or pastoral theology, a man might be equipped for the task.

Now, directly to your question, what qualifications should a man have if he is to serve in the pastoral office? I think there we need to look in the first letter of St. Paul to Timothy, himself a young pastor much like yourself on the verge of engaging in the office.

In the third chapter, I Timothy chapter 3 the first 7 verses. And, if I may, I'd like to comment at some length on this whole very important section in which the apostle gives us the apostolic qualifications for the office of the ministry.

"This saint is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task." That's you, isn't it? It's all of you really. You desire this noble task, this high privilege, this joyful task of bringing the gifts of God to his people, of announcing in Christ's name instead the forgiveness of all their sins, preaching the glad good news that God was in Christ reconciling the whole world to himself not counting their trespasses against them. That's a job that no other profession on earth really gets to do.

And it's a wonderful, wonderful privilege of being there in the ups and downs of life, of ministering to hurting people and joyful people alike, to provide them with what they really need both for this world and the life to come. This belongs to the office of the ministry. It is indeed a noble task.

Here the apostle calls the ministry the office of overseer. And perhaps it's important to remember there, if you haven't already covered this, that overseer or bishop means one who is responsible for the entire flock, who looks out over them. Not like the overseers back in slavery times that cracked the whip. They were tyrants. But rather like shepherds, who pastors really are, looking out for the needs of the individual members of the flock and for the flock collectively, the congregation as a whole, so that they would be guarded against predators, so that they would be led to green pastures and find the food that they need, and so that their ailments or diseases might be cured and cared for as needed.

The apostle continues, "Therefore, an overseer must be above reproach." Now who, of course, is above reproach? This means above public reproach. That is, their external demeanor, their public life is without accusation regarding moral standards, to be sure, but chiefly regarding Christian conviction and Christian virtue.

"That they be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach."

The husband of one wife. If you are blessed with a helpmate that God gave you as wife, if you have been given children to nurture, to care for, one must remember as a pastor, that you dare not neglect that precious vocation as well.

This belongs, according to the apostle, also to the office of the ministry if he's accompanied by a wife, if he's married, that he pays attention to her, that he cares for her, that he exhibits toward her the kind of love and devotion expected of any Christian husband especially because -- particularly because he is pastor of a congregation. The entire congregation, young and old, observes such love and devotion. Being a husband, one who cares for his wife is part and parcel of what you're about as a pastor.

Sober minded and self-controlled belongs to the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit, not something that is dredged up from within. To be a man of integrity belongs to being, again, a Christian, to have a reputation as being one who is faithful to God's word, who regularly receives his sacraments, who thereby is fed and nurtured so that all the drives and salts of the old Adam within may not rear their ugly head and show themselves in ugly ways. To be sober minded and self-controlled is the mark of a faithful pastor because it's also a mark of a faithful Christian.

Respectable, hospitable, able to teach. As the people of your congregation, indeed of your community look to you, they are to see someone who is what he says he is, who practices what he preaches.

Who is hospitable to all, who is welcoming, is not standoffish, not always having a scowling demeanor on his face. But a friendly person, approachable, winsome, who is given to this kind of hospitality, a welcoming nature for Jesus' sake again. It's part of being an evangelist to be sure, but it's also part of being a pastor.

To also then be able to teach. Teaching goes with the territory in the ministry. It is certainly a gift of God to be apt to teach, some of you, perhaps have been teachers in the past. All of you, if you're fathers or if you're involved in the responsibility for children, have been engaged in a form of teaching. This is part and parcel of being human.

But in the pastoral office, we are always to preach and to teach the word of God, never neglecting at every opportunity to be able to offer that kind of word which alone brings life, namely, the word of God to direct people in all of their quandaries and questions and problems for the surety and the certainty of God's word.

And this, of course, comes not only with practice but also with experience. As one himself imbibes the word of God, who daily meditates upon it, who prays on the basis of it, then you can learn more regarding the treasures of God's word so that you're better able to teach these in appropriate ways, in appropriate circumstances.

Not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle. Not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. So it is with all of the positive virtues and qualifications there come a number of exclusions. If one has an addictive personality, addicted to certain substances, in this case alcohol, could be other drugs, or people or things one cannot be free in order to serve as a pastor of souls, as a shepherd of souls. These things are important to remember.

To be not violent but gentle. Not quarrelsome is also important. If we're always antagonizing people, how can we be a good news man? How can we properly engage people with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

We always want to have a gentle spirit about us, a winsome spirit, even when we were admonishing, correcting people, so that they don't get the impression that we're out to get them or that we're up on our high haunches and looking down on them.

Rather we're down among the people, caring for them, patiently teaching them what God has to give to his people.

Then, the apostle continues, not a lover of money. The love of money, the Bible says, is the root of all evil. And it is possible, as no doubt you've seen there in the broader community, the urban community of L.A., for some people to be engaged in various aspects of the ministry for personal gain.

You as Christ's men are not about that. You are rather recognizing that you're serving Christ in his people. They, in turn, certainly give of the gifts that they've received from God for your support and for the expansion of Christ's kingdom. But non of us in the Lutheran ministry ought to be seeking monetary gain. Rather, we're seeking the love of God, the welfare of Christ's people.

And then we have the confidence that, if we seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, then all these things we need to support our daily life will also be given to us. I know that's what I myself have experienced and so many others in the ministry.

Verse 4, "He must manage his own household well with all dignity keeping his children submissive. For, if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?"

You know, Nick, someone once said that the best way that a father can care for his children is to love their mother so that

they can see that connection, that intimate union, that genuine love between their parents. That gives them security and confidence in the kind of environment that they need in order to grow up whole and complete as functioning members of society, as healthy adult Christians.

Now, if that's true in the family environment, it's also true in a reverse way when it comes to the congregation. They'll be watching you in your own marriage and family. They will want to see in you the very kinds of virtues and dimensions and qualifications that belong to the vocation of every Christian father and husband. How you treat your wife and how you love her will also be an aspect and dimension of how you treat and love the bride of Christ, Christ's church. Because you serve that Lord Jesus Christ who has called you as his own. And it is your joyful privilege then to serve as his minister or his servant in that place.

So, if you treat your wife with gentleness and kindness and love, you'll be more likely to treat your congregation with corresponding gentleness, kindness, and love.

In verse 6 the apostle continues. "He must not be a recent convert or he may be puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil."

Now, I know, Nick, in the kind of context in which you are working, it's not uncommon for self-appointed ministers to be engaged in their own kind of ministry in terms of their relationship with their church. And very frequently you'll find that a lot of them are recent converts to the faith.

Why would the apostle warn against this kind of thing? Well, notice he says "he might be puffed up with conceit." Pride always goes before the fall, doesn't it? He may fall into the condemnation of the devil. And that, of course, is a great danger for all of us, but especially for recent converts. That we begin to think that our achievements are due to our own efforts or maybe our own personality, our own unique capabilities. And we begin to pride ourself on those achievements. That plays right into the hands of the evil one.

Our sufficiency, the apostle says, is of God. Whatever you and I achieve, we achieve by the grace of God. Because we're only errand boys for the Lord who has bought us with his blood. It's our joyous privilege to convey Christ's gifts to his church. Richly and abundantly to pour out these guests as we have the opportunity in our preaching and our teaching in our private and public ministry in Jesus' name. It's not about us. It's about him.

That's why the apostle warns about recent converts. There must be some experience in faith, some conviction that it's God who's at work in us to serve others.

Finally, verse 7, "Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders so that he may not fall into disgrace into a snare of the devil."

Now, this, again, in two consecutive verses the apostle speaks of the devil who is always out to destroy Christ's church at every opportunity speaking to devour, as the apostle St. Peter writes. So we must always be on guard.

Having a good public reputation. Those outside the church, as the apostle says, is important for the qualifications of the minister so that the ministry be not blamed. So that who he is does not speak so loudly that a person cannot hear what he says. You know that old saying, what you're doing is speaking so loudly I can't hear what you're saying.

So it is then that having a good reputation with those outside the faith is necessary so that the Gospel might be clearly heard. So it's not a matter of personal volition or impetus. But rather we speak as those who are oracles of God, having the very words of Christ to give to his people and to proclaim indeed to the whole community until the ends of the earth.

It's a wonderful task, a noble task, the apostle says, that you aspire to. These are the qualifications. And by the grace of God we serve in this joyous office that Christ has given to his church.



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*** >> NICK: Thanks, Professor Senkbeil. Your

response helps me understand who a pastor is, Now I'd like to know more about what he does. What are the duties of a minister of the church?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Great, Nick. Of course actually the great commission in Matthew 28 gives to us a real focus of the duties of a minister of the church. If you remember, our Lord Jesus there giving to his church the great commission to preach the Gospel in all the world to make disciples of all nations.

How? By baptizing and by teaching. Baptizing them, he said, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have command you.

Now, of course, that's a tall order as well. Everything that Jesus commanded, that is everything that he set forth includes a lot of things. So Christian doctrine teaching of that Gospel is really at the heart and center of what it is that a pastor does. He first baptizes into the death and resurrection of Jesus. And then all those that are baptized into the faith he feeds and nourishes with the means that Christ has given to his church, namely his Gospel and his sacraments.

Also, if we look at our Lutheran Confessions, in the 5th

article of the Augsburg Confession, we find that the article of justification, that is, the central article of the faith by which God for

Christ's sake declares all the world a justified, that is, without sin, he bestows upon them the very righteousness of Jesus' son in that one act of acquittal by which Jesus died for the sins of the world. He was first put to death for our offenses and then raised again for our justification.

So we really understand the office of the ministry like all the other articles of the faith around that one central article, justification by grace for Christ's sake.

So it is then that in the 5th article of the Augsburg Confession we read that, in order to obtain such faith, that is a justifying faith in Jesus, God has instituted the office of the ministry; that is, he has provided the teaching of the Gospel and the administration of the sacraments. Through these as through means, he gives the Holy Spirit who works faith when and where he pleases him in those that hear the Gospel.

And, really, if you think about these things, all the duties of the office of the ministry revolve around these sacred channels, these means of grace, the vehicles by which God the Holy Spirit has promised to work, that people everywhere might hear the good news of the Gospel and believing it find forgiveness and life in Jesus' name, that they might be baptized into the death and resurrection of Jesus, that they might be fed with the very body and blood that Jesus gave for the sins of the whole world.

So then, to cut to the chase, the duties of the office of the public ministry are to teach and to preach the Gospel, to baptize and to distribute the sacrament of the altar. These means of grace are at the heart of the core of what it means to be a pastor in Christ's church.



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>> Professor Senkbeil, my name is Eric. And I am serving on the opposite end of the country from Nick. My congregation is in New Jersey.

Could you tell me more about the personal side of the ministry? I mean, tell us about a pastor's spiritual life and how he carries out his daily work. Thank you.

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Thanks very much, Eric, for that question because you've really gotten at something that's very, very important for every pastor. You remember that, as we were talking about the qualifications for the office under the third chapter of I Timothy, we talked about the importance of a man being able to teach. That he be one who desires that noble task of the ministry, that he be qualified in every way as a pastor in the church.

And, certainly, as his external characteristics and qualities are important, also his inner spiritual life is very, very important. Because that belongs to really the effective preaching of the Gospel that one would himself hear that Gospel and believe it, that he might be a man who is really what you see is what you get, that what he teaches and preaches to others he himself has applied, as the old saying goes, we need to practice what we preach.

Dr. Luther a long time ago gave us a kind of a working formula, if you will, to becoming a theologian. He said there are three components really in the making of a theologian. In the

language that he used, the language of the church at that time, namely Latin, it sounded like this: Oratio, Meditatio, Tentatio, which means prayer, meditation, and affliction.

Kind of an interesting combination, if you stop and think about it. That God the Holy Spirit goes about forming pastors in the school of experience, if you will, by means of his word.

Notice again, that the Holy Spirit always works through these very same means that the pastor is called to use in ministering to others. So, therefore, when it comes to a pastor's own spiritual life, he needs to be focused upon this word of God.

Maybe, Eric, you've heard the phrase to be "in the Word." Well, Dr. Luther in his own way was really emphasizing that very characteristic when he said that a pastor needs to pray and to meditate.

The prayer which Dr. Luther had in mind is an answering prayer that is formed and framed in response to the word of God by which God himself addresses each and every Christian. So that, as a child of God then hears "You are my own beloved child," the believing child of God answers in the very words that Jesus has taught him to pray: "Our Father who art in heaven." So this prayer is really rooted and grounded in the very word of God. That's meditation.

There's a difference really between meditating upon God's word and merely studying it. A lot of people have the idea that meditation is a matter of a mental determination, that one focuses really, really hard upon learning God's word and inwardly digesting it. And really that, the inward digestion, is much closer to the heart of the matter of meditation than merely thinking in your heart.

The biblical word for meditation really means to ruminate, to chew on, to digest this word of God which is the instrument and sword of the Holy Spirit, as the Bible says. In full awareness that the word of God actually does what it says, it is an efficacious word. It is the sword of the spirit by which he addresses us in our innermost being.

And so in Dr. Luther's mind as he taught people to pray, it was based upon that very word of God, that one might pray back to God with the words that God himself has given him.

So it is that in Dr. Luther's mind prayer itself was really an answer to the word which God has given to that person. So that each and every person then might in his own way pray back to God the very word that God has given to him.

In an interesting tract that Dr. Luther wrote for his barber, Peter, he gave to him a formula for prayer that really follows this very strategic aspect and dimension of what it means to be a theologian.

He said to this layman, "If you want to learn the art of prayer in the school of experience, you can do it by weaving a wreath of four strands on the basis of the word of God praying the very same word back to God in the way that he has given it to you -- first as a teaching, then as an occasion for thanksgiving, then as an opportunity for confession of sins, and finally as an act of petition."

So, for example, as he explains to his barber, Peter, in that little tract that he wrote for him, "To Master Peter on prayer," he said, "On the basis of the introduction to the Lord's Prayer, one might indeed reflect to the father in heaven, 'Here, heavenly Father, you have taught me that you are mine, beloved Father, and I'm your beloved son. So that with all boldness and confidence, I can ask you as a beloved child asks their beloved father."

So it is that in that tract to Master Peter on prayer, Dr. Luther instructed him that in using this four-stranded wreath approach to prayer, one might, for example, weave a prayer, one's own private prayer, on the basis of the introduction to the Lord's Prayer.

In the small catechism, remember, we are taught what does this mean regarding our father who art in heaven? With these words God tenderly invites us to believe that he is our true father so that with all -- and we are his true children, so that with all boldness and confidence we can ask him as dear children ask their dear father.

And so, if one were to pray one's own prayer on the basis of just those little words of the introduction to the Lord's Prayer, one could say here, "Heavenly Father, you teach me that you are my true father, that I am really your true son, so I can ask you anything just like a beloved child asks their beloved father."

Then you would thank God first. "Thank you, heavenly Father. Because indeed, there's nothing in me that qualifies me to approach you in such a way. But because of your dear son, our Lord Jesus, you have commanded me to pray in this way, and you have promised to hear me. Help me, by the grace and power of your Holy Spirit to recognize that in me really there is nothing, no good thing that is in my sinful flesh. I act as though I have no father in heaven; that it's all up to me; that my whole life is up to my own initiative; that I have no one who is able to hear my prayer and to answer me as you are. I confess this sin of pride, heavenly Father. Please forgive me for Jesus' sake."

And then, finally, one would go on to ask "By the grace and power of the Holy Spirit, dear Father in heaven, help me to trust this promise of yours; to live in this world as one who has been created, redeemed, and sanctified by your grace and your gifts, so that I might serve you in righteousness and innocence as a

child of God through faith in your son. Hear me for Jesus' sake. Amen."

Now, that's only a model, Eric, of how one might pray using Luther's four-stranded wreath. But the point is, when he was teaching people in order to be a theologian one must meditate, that's the kind of prayer that he had in mind. Prayer which is based upon God's word, inwardly digested. That one might say back to God what God says to us in his word.

So this life of prayer and devotion is very, very important so that the pastor doesn't become just an automaton, a mechanical repetition of going through the motions, but that he might act indeed as a beloved son of the father in heaven through faith in Jesus; that he might serve his people effectively as one who's called to that task by the very father who has created, redeemed, and sanctified him.

But, if you remember, Eric, there was one more component in that formula for the making of the theologian. First prayer and then meditation, but also affliction. That's the hard part.

Dr. Luther said this is the tough stuff. This is really determines what -- the genuineness of our faith. The apostle Peter, you remember, says that our faith is like -- sort of like a gold nugget hidden within the ore that it's found within the ground. And there must be purification of that faith. And that's what happens in the school of experience, as devil, world, and flesh go to work on that faith that God has given to us.

And so we often find that, as people who are called by the name of Christ as Christians in this world, laymen and pastors alike, we face all kinds of assaults upon this faith that God has given to us.

But those very assaults serve only to enhance and to clarify and to purify the conviction which the Holy Spirit has worked in our heart and life so that we might cling all the more firmly to the promises of God and His word; That we might know from our own personal experience how rich and how wonderful are the promises of God that he's given to all his people in Christ Jesus.

So the pastor's own spiritual life, in other words, is lived day in and day out in his calling both as a Christian and as a pastor; that with this formula -- prayer, meditation, and affliction -- he might come to know very personally what it means to be a child of God and to serve in Christ's church.

The spiritual life of a pastor, therefore, is not really something that he does on the side. It's really more of what he is. What a pastor does flows out of who he is as a child of God and also as one who is called to serve in Christ's church, in His place and in His stead to be an undershepherd of the shepherd who bought his flock with his own blood and made them to be his own.

Spiritual life is nothing other than applied faith day in and day out in every aspect of the pastor's life. Great question, Eric.



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*** >> ERIC: Thank you. That was very helpful. I still

have a question, however, about the roles a pastor plays in his personal and public life. There are always lots of pressures on a pastor and it can be difficult to balance personal and professional responsibilities. I can tell this already, and I'm not even ordained yet.

How should a pastor conduct himself in his relationships with other people? Are we always "on"?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Well, Eric, sometimes it certainly seems as though there is no end to the responsibilities of being a pastor. In sense it is true a pastor is always "on," but not in that way, in sort of an artificial way, but rather in a very natural way.

Because, again, what pastor does flows out of who he is. He has a vocation, to be sure, as a pastor. That's what we've been talking about here in these opening questions you men have had.

But he also has other callings. If he's married, has a family, he has a vocation as a husband and as a father. If he has other responsibilities and relationships, he has other callings within those vocations, whether it be as a friend or perhaps a son or to other people.

These vocations, too, are a holy calling. And a pastor, therefore, is not really falling down on the job in any way if he isn't always full time "on." Rather, he needs really to be on as

Christ meant within all of those vocations. You know, of course, from your experience as an

elementary school teacher, that the responsibility of a professional in that kind of very important responsibility is not something that you can kind of check in and check out of. You don't just punch the clock as an effective teacher.

It's rather a real profession. It's something that you profess; that is, something that you do before other people all the time, even when you're not in the classroom. And it's really like that in the ministry.

Dr. Walther in his pastoral theology says really that pastoral theology is an opitus of a soul, that is something -- a quality which dwells within the man, spiritually speaking. It's acquired through certain external means.

So through these means, through the word and through the sacraments, again, we learn something more of what it means to be a pastor. But it resides deep within. It's not something that we can put on and off like you would take off a coat, for example. But rather we are called to this office. And so we're ready and willing to serve in whatever capacity as the needs arise.

But that means also that we're able, willing, eager even to be husband of one wife, as St. Paul said to Timothy; to be a loving father to our children because these are the individuals that God has given to us and to our wives to raise to ensure adulthood to serve him as God's people in the world. So we're not shirking our duty when we take time for those loved ones whom God has given us.

So, therefore, we see that this is a full-time responsibility, certainly. It's an awesome responsibility. But it's something that really doesn't need to burn us out and stress us out. If we're confident of who Christ has made us to be in the church because he's given us this joy and privilege of simply being an errand boy for Jesus, if you will, dispensing His word, dispensing His sacraments for the benefit of his people in the church. Great question, Eric.



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*** >> JOSHUA: Dr. Senkbeil, my name is Joshua. I

appreciate Eric's questions and realize I have one of my own. I wonder how pastors get to be pastors. I mean, how

do I move beyond being a deacon licensed to preach to become a pastor?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Okay. Thanks, Josh, for that question. It's not something that we promote ourselves to this office in public ministry. You can't simply just simply say, "You know what? I think I'll be a pastor." In a few days or a few weeks or a few months, maybe a few years for some of you, suddenly one finds themselves to be a pastor.

Rather, we understand, certainly, the scriptural qualifications for the office. We talked about those.

But remember, when I did talk about those, I also talked about the procedures, that is, the protocols, if you will, that belong to coming into the office. And now I guess it's time to talk about those.

The office of the ministry exists by Christ's own institution to serve His own body, the church. But it is both church and ministry. The ministry exists for the sake of Christ's people. It's a ministry of the church and to the church. And, therefore, the church has a central role will in how men become pastors. We call this process the call process.

In order to be certified for a call to a congregation,

one must prepare for this office. That's what you men are doing right now. And there's a whole procedure that our church body has inaugurated in order for that to happen. Certainly, part of it is the study that you're doing right now. To have these spiritual qualifications is at the core of the matter, but also having the kind of training that's necessary in order to assume the responsibilities of the office is also important.

So, hence, we insist that there be a course of study. After all, anyone in your profession, for example, in farming or ranching needs to know something about the process. You can't just walk in from some urban area and suddenly decide to be a rancher. You've got to know something about cattle, for example. You've got to know something about the land in order to do that job.

So it is also in the ministry. We need to know the word of God. We need to know what it is to be a pastor, the duties and responsibilities. We need to learn, certainly, the basics of the skills and the aptitudes that are part and parcel of the responsibility of tending the sheep and caring for Christ's lambs.

And so it is that we have this whole course of study. Once a man is finished with that course of study, then there is a certification process.

The seminary to which you have applied through the Delto program will then, upon the completion of these courses, certify you for this public office.

Now, having received certification is one thing. The call, however, remember I told you, is central. In other words, a flock of God's people, a congregation needs to call you to be their pastor.

And so every year our church body has the joyful privilege of placing certain men into the ministry upon the completion of their course of study, upon their certification for this public office, and then also upon the call of the congregation.

Now, how do these two things come together, the certification and the call? That happens in our midst through the board of assignments, which is really the group of our district presidents together called the council and presidents. They're the ones who we have designated to put the candidates for the office and those who are -- those congregations that are calling pastors together.

And so, once that is done and the call is assigned, then a pastor may legitimately enter into the office of the ministry.

A call is valid when it is -- when it's in accordance with God's own institution with the office of the ministry. It's legitimate and it's extended by those who are authorized to call a man into the ministry.

Like I said before, a man doesn't promote himself into

this office. You don't just suddenly decide to be a pastor. In order to be a legitimate pastor, one must have a legitimate call from a congregation who calls them to serve as shepherd in that place. So, generally speaking, that's the process of how a man is placed in the ministry.



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>> JOSHUA: Now I see why it's important to have the specialized preparation for the ministry. But tell me: What about ordination? Does ordination give a pastor some special status with God?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Well, remember, Josh, we talked about the vocation of every Christian; that he or she actually, in terms of the leity of the church, each had a separate calling which gives gives them a place in life, be that butcher, baker, candlestick maker, you could say. Father, mother, child, spouse, whoever we are, this is where God has called us to serve.

In the office of the ministry, it also is a special office but one in which God works by virtue of his divine means through the Gospel and the sacraments. That places it into his right-hand kingdom, if you will, into the area of the operation of his church.

So now, when it comes to ordination, that question you asked, does it give some sort of special status? It is an important question.

Remember when we talked about the 5th article of the Augsburg Confession, we said that the office of the public ministry really consists in this: That God has given to this church on earth the Gospel and the sacraments. Through these, as through means, he sends forth the Holy Spirit who works faith when and where it pleases him in those who hear the Gospel.

So that Christ's people, his church, might be very

confident that the man whom they have called is indeed serving in this office, it's only right and proper then that there would be some sort of ceremony that would designate this man as their pastor from this day on.

Remember now, we said what really gives him a legitimate standing in that office is the call of the congregation.

But now in the rite of ordination, the assembled congregation has the joyous privilege of seeing and hearing their pastor designate, the candidate for office, if you will, publicly profess the faith that he is called to teach and to preach.

And, if you haven't looked at it before, it's really quite an interesting and very awe-inspiring rite. For example, the pastor is asked publicly before God and the assembled congregation to state, "Do you believe the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired word of God and the only infallible rule of faith and practice?"

You see, God's people have a right to know that the man whom they have called will base his sermons and his teaching, all that he does really, not in his own private opinion but on the basis of God's word.

Secondly, the question is: "Do you accept the three ecumenical creeds; namely, the Apostle's, the Nicene, and the Athenasian Creeds, as faithful testimonies to the truth of the Holy Scriptures? And do you reject all the errors which they condemn?"

As a minister of the church, we profess again not a private opinion but rather the faith which the church confesses especially over and again the ancient and contemporary heresies false teachings which attack and assault the church. So it's important that a man profess, first of all, the holy scriptures and then the ancient creeds, the ecumenical creeds, as a sum total of this Christian faith which we profess.

The next question gets to the heart of the matter of what it means to be a Lutheran pastor. "Do you believe that the Unaltered Augsburg Confession is a true exposition of the word of God and a correct exhibition of the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church; that the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, the Small and Large Catechisms of Martin Luther, the Smalcald Articles, the Treatise on the Authority and Primacy of the Pope, and the Formula of Concord -- as these are contained in the Book of Concord -- are also in agreement with this one scriptural faith?"

You see, we're not a lowest common denominator church. We're not interested in everybody's own private opinion of what might be true or could possibly be true. But we want every pastor to be able to say unequivocally "thus says the Lord."

Therefore, as Lutheran pastors, we also pledge our allegiance to this Book of Concord; that is, the assembled body of

Christian teaching from the time of the Reformation that, in every article of faith, we might teach what Holy Scripture teaches since these are of course what we call normed norms. The Bible itself norms the faith.

But these -- this collection of the confessions are themselves normed by Holy Scripture so that we might collectively as a church teach with one voice what the Bible itself teaches on all the controverted articles of Christian faith.

Then comes another question regarding the duties of the office. "Do you solemnly promise that you will perform the duties of your office in accordance with the confessions or symbols and so that all your teaching and your administration of the sacraments will be in conformity with the Holy Scriptures and with the aforementioned symbols?"

You see, this is what provides continuity and uniformity amongst the congregations of the synod, that all the men who serve in our ministerium who hold the office of the public ministry in our church profess this one scriptural faith and with one voice confess the teachings of that faith.

It's only right then that the congregation which would have a right to expect their pastor to uphold these doctrines and to teach this faith which they themselves profess because these very things, the Bible and the Confessions, are included in every congregation's constitution as the foundation of what it is that they stand for as Christians in that place.

Another question regarding what it is that pastors do: "Will you faithfully instruct both young and old in the chief articles of the Christian doctrine? Will you forgive the sins of those repent, and will you promise never to divulge the sins confessed to you? Will you minister faithfully to the sick and dying? Will you demonstrate to the church a constant and ready ministry admonishing the people to a lively confidence in Christ and holy living?"

Now, that's a tall order. To which the pastor responds, according to our rite, "I will, with the help of God."

Remember, Josh, we said that a pastor is not merely something that he is, but something he does. What he does has to be consistent with who he is both as a Christian and as a called servant of Christ in the church.

So, therefore, the congregation is interested that he upholds the standards of this public office in everything that he does, in his public teaching and in his private ministry. And so this is the intent of that question.

And then finally this: "Finally, will you adorn the office of the public ministry with a holy life?" We already said how important a man's personal faith is. His own devotional life;

exhibiting to everyone, both within the flock and the community at large, the qualities of what it means to be a Christian and to be a public servant of the Word. And so it's important then that congregations hear with their own ears this promise, this pledge from the mouth of their pastor.

To which he responds, "I will, the Lord helping me through the power and grace of His Holy Spirit."

Now, Josh, I've given you a rather lengthy list of things to a rather simple question. But really it's important that we keep these things central to the question of ordination. Because, you see, what ordination is is really the public acknowledgment of the entrance into this office and the church.

The term "ordination" does not mean some sort of magical process by which a man receives some sort of spiritual quality within the church which elevates him to a certain status higher above the rest of the congregation.

But rather it places him into this office, namely, of being a lowly servant in Jesus' name. Like Jesus himself came not to be served but rather to serve, in fact, to give his life as a ransom for many.

So it is that those who are called to this office, which is indeed the highest office of the church, might serve in a lowly way. Ordination, therefore, is the way by which the congregation hears the pledge of their pastor and by which he is installed into this public ministry.

In I Timothy chapter 4 we read about this practice of ordination where St. Paul writes to young Timothy in verse 14, "Do not neglect the gift you have which was given you by prophecy when the consul of elders laid their hands on you."

And this really is what ordination means, namely, to place one's hands on someone. It is a universal gesture within the church which has to do with the blessing of God, the application, the personal application of the blessings and gifts of God. It's used in many kinds of contexts, both in the everyday ministry that a pastor might carry on in his daily duties, at the sick bed, at the altar rail, whenever he is serving in Christ's place.

But also when he himself enters then into this office, this practice is the way by which he is designated as Christ's own servant.

Notice that the apostle calls it the gift of the Holy Spirit. This, I think, says a great deal regarding what it is to be a pastor. It's to be a gift, a gift of Christ to His church, to serve in His place, to feed His flock, to nourish His lambs and sheep, to be Christ's man, to speak His word, to administer His sacraments. This is what ordination is about. It's the way by which a man is placed into this office which he holds by virtue of a call of the

congregation. Thanks for asking that question, Josh. ***

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*** >> JOSHUA: Thank you. Your comments are most

helpful. However, I have another practical question. I am currently serving here in Wyoming, and I love it. I grew up here and am very comfortable serving God's people.

But I know that pastors don't always stay in one place. I'm not sure how that works. How do pastors move from one congregation to another? Can you tell me something about the call process?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Great, Josh. You know, we've been talking about a call, haven't we, and how a man is placed into the ministry in the first place.

Now you're asking how is it then that pastors move from one call to another? Well, certainly you alluded to it. Namely, it's not really merely a question of where one is comfortable and what you're familiar with.

I myself grew up in a rural area, and I ended up serving congregations in all kinds of settings including urban settings and missions and now teaching at the seminary, all really in answer to various calls that came my way.

Well, the process of calling works like this: When a congregation is vacant, a list is drawn up of candidates for that office. These candidates come from within the congregation; that is, members of the congregation can place names in nomination. The district president where the congregation is located also may

add names to that list. And then the district president will then compile a list

of these nominees, both the ones which he has designated and also the ones which came from the congregation, together with all their qualifications and certain information that's unique to that individual pastor, information which really came from him and also from the evaluation of other people.

Then, on the basis of this list of nominees together with their qualifications and the information that is compiled, each congregation that wants to call a pastor then is sorting through this information seeking the guidance of God prayerfully as to which man it might be that God would like to give them as a pastor. And that's the man that they select by process of vote to extend their call to.

Now, when a man receives such a call, a call of a vacant congregation, he's presented with some of what a dilemma because he already has, remember, a valid and legitimate call right where he is.

And so now before God he must seek out God's direction because he has two calls -- the one where he presently is and the one that he's received from the vacant congregation.

How would a pastor work through this? Well, he would certainly seek the counsel of others, his own district president, for example, his brothers in the ministry, but also the members of the congregation where he serves and their leaders to get their perspective on what it is that remains to be done in that particular location.

And his interest, now again, is not his personal interest, where he would like to be and what he would like to do in terms of the office of the ministry; but rather where is God calling him to serve? That, again, is a matter of great prayer and meditation and concentration really working through a combination of factors, namely, the needs of the congregation he's presently serving, the needs of the congregation that has called him, and his own unique qualifications and abilities.

And he is then interested in understanding where are these qualifications and abilities and the needs best matched? That's how he arrives at a decision.

And it is, indeed, a confident thing then that a pastor and a congregation then, respectively, might with confidence know at any given time that this is the pastor whom God wants to give them and that the pastor himself knows that he is God's gift to these people at that moment in time. It provides him again with that joy in the ministry that we talked about earlier.

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>> DAVID: My first career was in the healthcare industry here in Ohio. In this industry people hunt for jobs that meet their needs. Is that the way it works in the ministry? Do we seek out calls?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Thanks very much, David, for asking that question because a lot of people are confused on that. I mean to all the world really it looks like just an ordinary job. And one might think that a pastor might kind of have his eyes or his goals set on a particular call in a particular place and kind of strive to receive that individual call.

But, remember again, we're interested in having both a valid and legitimate call. And part of that legitimacy is that a pastor does not seek the call but rather it's extended to him.

This is important because we're not trying to hire on as someone who is simply looking for a position someplace else.

You know, actually Jesus addressed that in the 10th chapter of the Gospel of John where he speaks about the good shepherd who laid down his life for the sheep and how that good shepherd can be identified in comparison with a false shepherd.

He says, "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd who does not own the sheep sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees. And the wolf snatches them and scatters them."

I don't know about you, David, but I think that Josh could really identify with this particular word of Jesus in the 10th chapter of John's Gospel. Because out on the ranch you don't want somebody who's just out for a job, but you want someone who really knows the responsibilities. You have a hired man, he can do certain things and he can do them well. But, when push comes to shove, he isn't really fully invested in the welfare of the animals that he's caring for.

So it is now in Christ's church that we want a man who is with heart and soul committed to what he is called to do. That means that he isn't hiring himself out for some sort of job or position. But rather he's very, very much intently aware that it's Christ himself who has given him this responsibility through the call of that congregation.

So part of that responsibility then means that he isn't out seeking these calls but rather he's willing to consider them when they come his way so that he might again, through this careful process of winnowing and sifting out his unique abilities and the needs of that congregation, might arrive at a God-pleasing decision so that both the church and the pastor himself might be confident that he's serving where God wants him to be, not as one who's hired out to do a job, but rather one who is commissioned as Christ's own man to serve Christ's flock in his place. Thanks for that question, David.



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>> NICK: May I switch topics a bit? As we are all well aware, one of the important tasks we will be given as pastors is to share the sacraments with our parishioners. We even speak of word and sacrament ministry.

Why does the Lutheran church view the sacraments as so important? It is certainly clear to me that not all churches or denominations place the same amount of emphasis on the sacraments.

>> DR. WARNECK: Nick, you have addressed a very important question and one which many Lutheran Christians raise.

People are curious in our churches about the sacraments and what they are and what blessings we may expect from them.

A topic sentence and a very short answer and I submit a precise answer would be for Lutheran Christians, the sacraments are important because they are the word of God's grace and forgiveness of our sins as surely as these blessings are proclaimed in preaching from the pulpit.

I think that's the place to start. The sacraments, in our view in the Lutheran church, are the very word of God's grace and his forgiveness in Jesus Christ.

And then we added similarly to the Gospel proclamation from preaching from the pulpit. That's how St. Paul discusses the subject in address to your question, Nick.

It seems that he anticipated your question when he considered the Lord's Supper to be a proclamation, a showing of the Lord's death on the cross. 1 Corinthians 11, verse 26.

Now, our understanding of a sacrament -- and, by the way, the term is an ecclesiastical or church term, not a biblical term.

But, nevertheless, the term "sacrament" conveys meaning from the scriptures and from our Lord's institution of Holy Baptism and the Lord's Supper.

A sacrament is an action commanded by our Lord with attending outward signs. And our Lord teaches that the sacrament is an action proclaiming the Gospel of the forgiveness of sins as certainly as does the sermon.

So Philip Malanchthon, one of the reformers of the 16th century, states, "Thus, it agrees well with our position, namely, that the one minister who consecrates" -- in reference to the Lord's Supper -- "gives the body and blood of our Lord to the rest of the people just as a minister who preaches sets forth the Gospel to the people as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 4 verse 1."

For Martin Luther the sacraments are Christ's visible word. This is to say the church gathers to hear the sermon but never to the neglect of the sacrament. This would be a senseless separation.

Luther emphasized the Word proclaimed and visible is one. In sermon and sacrament, therefore, Christ and his word comprise what is essential. Both are indispensable -- the preaching of the word and the giving of the sacrament.

We should understand that our people, however, are somewhat confused about the meaning of a sacrament. And, principally, because there are different understandings among Christians of various churches and various traditions.

There are all kinds of notions that abound about the sacraments. For many in the Protestant tradition, the focus is not on the word but elsewhere. Usually on the outward signs which they interpret as symbols of a changed mind and a redeemed life.

The more discerning persons in that Protestant tradition comprehend not only symbols but seals, as they say, through which the spirit seals to believing recipients the blessings of the new covenant. So we have symbols/seals.

And they concede that in some way the sacraments convey Christ to the believer. They also state, "Similar to the word of God, the sacraments become for us the divine revelation and vehicle of his grace."

Now, those sentiments expressed by the friends of our Lutheran people, friends who are in the Protestant tradition, are well and good as far as they go. And those kind of sentiments are somewhat helpful.

But Lutheran Christians observe that the general understanding expressed by our Protestant friends seldom gets around to what is essential about the sacraments as we cited in a moment ago that the sacraments are the very word of Christ.

Whatever one says about symbols or seals or even Christ's presence, when his word is marginalized to a certain extent, a question arises with regard to the significance and power and blessing of the sacraments.

For those things Christ and his word are the essentials. Much is made in other traditions of water and bread and wine as things of this world which Christ took and caused to signify the things of heaven. This is the expression. This is their vocabulary.

Is this a proper and adequate way to frame the matter? We plead that such discussions are somewhat pointless, if we may say, except we cling to the word of Christ instituting the sacraments and by his word assuring that real blessings are for us there in baptism and the Lord's Supper.

Our Protestant friends press to explain the outward visible elements, what they signify, what they could mean.

Lutheran theology always begins with what Christ says and clings to his word which defines the sacraments and gives them his intended meaning.

That, after all, is what's really significant. Not the visible elements, per se, but rather the word of Christ is our starting point when we teach the meaning of the sacraments to our people.

So we would encourage you, Nick, to begin there and help persons in your congregation or inquirers about the Christian faith, as the Lutheran church proclaims it, to help them focus on what is essential at the outset, namely, Christ and his word instituting the sacraments with the blessings he says are there for those who are baptized and those who commune at his altar.

Now we should say something about particular marks of the sacrament. Very possibly, Nick, this is all in your background, I'm sure, as you teach children and adults from your catechism.

Nevertheless, let's just focus here for moment. The marks of the sacraments -- the first mark is that they are commanded by God, commanded by our Lord. They are is sacred actions, rites and ceremonies -- there are such rites and ceremonies in the church which have no divine command and constitution, yet we cherish them. Confirmation is one of those rights, ordination into the ministry another.

The sacraments, however, come by direct institution and command of the Lord Jesus Christ. That makes them somewhat different than rites and ceremonies in the church at

large. According to His institution, the sacraments convey

His word of grace and forgiveness as we have emphasized already, which we call, therefore, a word of promise. This is the second mark. And the visible sign connected to the word "water" in baptism, "bread and wine" in the Lord's Supper -- the signs, these are comprise the third mark.

So we have the institution and command of our Lord; we have His word of promise attached to the signs or the signs to that word. And those three things comprise the marks of the sacraments as we refer to them in our Lutheran theology and practice.

And, according to those marks, if we may, the sacraments are principally baptism and the Lord's Supper, though Luther for a time would have recognized Holy Absolution as a sacrament. This needs to be said.

Later beginning in 1520, the reformer preferred to limit the notion of a sacrament to baptism and the Lord's Supper for the reason that the three particular marks inclusive of the visible sign were apparent in baptism and the Lord's Supper, the signs being not, apparent in Holy Absolution.

This is discussed, of course, in our Confessions, the Apology to the Augsburg Confession, article 13, paragraphs 3 and 4 would be a handy reference.



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>> NICK: Thank you. I'd like to ask another question on the same topic.

How shall we understand the sacraments as means of grace? And how do we communicate this understanding to our congregation?

>> DR. WARNECK: Nick, I'm happy that you raised that question because this phrase "means of grace" is so very meaningful and so very cherished among us in the Lutheran church. It's part of our ongoing vocabulary as Lutheran Christians.

Our Lutheran Confessions encourage reference to the sacraments as, as you say, means of grace or signs of grace.

Now, let's take the term "sign." When our confessions address that term, they always have in view the word of Christ. Thus, baptism is a washing by water and the word. The Lord's Supper is bread and wine, eating and drinking, but more, taking the body and blood of Christ according to his word.

What is really stated here? The sacraments are signs of grace. They are signs of God's will toward us, his good and gracious will. And by virtue of their union, water, bread, and wine, with the word of Christ these signs actually bear the promise of that word.

The Scandinavian theologian, Holsten Fagerberg, comments, he says, "The word, which forms a union with the sign" -- bread, wine, water -- is a word of promise. The specific content

of the promise is the assurance of the forgiveness of sins. And it is identical with the Gospel in the sense of promise." End of quote from Holsten Fagerberg.

The apology states -- the apology to the Augsburg Confession addresses this relationship of the sign to the word in this manner: It writes or it reads, "Therefore, the word offers the forgiveness of sins while the ceremony is a sort of picture or seal," as Paul calls it, "showing forth the promise."

Melanchthon further clarifies the sign within what he calls the rite, presumably, the administration of the sacraments.

He refers to baptism, the Lord's Supper and holy absolution and he comments, quote, "And God moves our hearts through the word and the rite at the same time so that they believe and receive faith just as Paul says. So faith comes from what is heard. For just as the word enters through the ear in order to strike the heart, so also the rite enters through the eye in order to move the heart. The word and the rite have the same effect." End of quote.

St. Augustine put it well when he said that the sacrament is a visible word. And of course Dr. Martin Luther reiterated that very term "visible word." Because the rite received by the eyes, as it were, is a picture of the word signifying the same thing as the word. Therefore, both have the same effect.

Again, this matter is discussed at length in the apology of the Augsburg Confession, Article 13.

Now, lest persons are misled, Nick, thinking that the sacrament as a means of grace act in some automatic manner or that visible signs themselves convey such grace irregardless of the response of the recipients of that grace through the sign, our Lutheran teachers stress two things.

And, Nick, it's probably important that we stress these two points with people with whom we are explaining the nature of the sacraments.

The first point, first, it is the word alone that offers forgiveness of sins. That distinction is made very advisably lest people attach some mystical quality to water or to the bread and wine, to the elements themselves. It is the word alone that offers forgiveness of sins.

The second point here is that faith or the response of faith to that word is paramount, important. Always it is faith in the word of promise born in the sacrament which justifies.

That is why it would be error in the first order for any to believe that we are justified by a ceremony without good disposition in our heart, that is, without faith, teaches the apology.

Furthermore, we instruct our people that faith in this instance is not a feeling or impulse which we generate within.

Rather, saving faith which appropriates the blessing of the word and promise is awakened and nourished by that very promise of the forgiveness of sins.

To receive the quote "sign of promise" end of quote, one is required to have faith. The water, the bread and the wine and participation, the washing, the eating and drinking awakens attention to the word which works in a reciprocal manner awakening faith which appropriates the very blessing of that word.

Somehow, Nick, it seems that it is well for us to attempt to make these points very clear with persons whom we are instructing and teaching about the sacraments.

To summarize, the apology states, "Just as the word was given to awaken this faith, so also the sacrament was instituted in order that, as the outward form meets the eyes, it might move the heart to believe. For the Holy Spirit works through the word and the sacrament." Apology, article 24.

Expressing the matter more down to earth, let us say, the signs -- water, bread and wine within the sacraments as rites -- catch the eye so that the heart is stirred to give attention to the word and the promise; whereby, faith is given and strengthened to appropriate what the word here gives, the forgiveness of sins.

We have repeated ourselves here, as you observe, Nick, but for the sake of emphasis in order to suggest that you and other pastors might attempt to make clear the relationship of the visible signs to that word of promise in both baptism and the Lord's Supper. And I -- I hope our remarks will lead you in that direction, and I hope they are helpful.

Now, Nick, we should also mention that the sacraments, like justification, are God's work exclusively. They are the exclusive action of God. They are sacred acts through which God provides what he has promised in his word. They express God's gracious disposition toward us. And through them he makes us partakers of his gifts.

Baptism, for instance, is referred in the large catechism of Dr. Martin Luther as an act whereby God baptizes us. The pastor, of course, officiates at the baptism of a child or adults. But the reality is that through that word of promise conveyed in the sacrament, it is God who baptizes, Luther wants to emphasize. God is the active one.

And we are simply serving that action of God when we administer the sacrament for our people and in the presence of the congregation.

The sacraments are a form of the Gospel and the promise in action, if you will. No one states this dynamic of the sacrament as a very action of God better than Dr. Luther when he writes in another paragraph, he states, "To be baptized in God's

name is to be baptized not by human beings but by God himself. Although it is performed by human hands, it is, nevertheless, truly God's own act. From this fact everyone can easily conclude that it is of much greater value than the work of any human beings or a saint. For what human work can possibly be greater than God's work?"

I don't know about you, Nick, I think that Luther puts that so well that it was worth referring to that statement.

Now, let me suggest this, Nick: You have opportunity to welcome persons from many diverse backgrounds into classes which introduce these good folks to the Christian faith. We call these adult classes in our part of the country or the pastor's information class. But we conduct those classes in our parishes, as I'm sure you do, periodically through the year.

And let me suggest that what really grabs these persons in this area of the sacraments is this exciting notion that baptism today on this Sunday and the Lord's Supper in which our people participate and partake on this Sunday God is acting here and now.

Somehow many people have been conditioned to view the sacraments as rites or ceremonies in the past, as just random signs or symbols of an action that God has done in the past.

I want to assure you, Nick -- and perhaps you have made this discovery already, and I'd just like to affirm it, if so -- when persons discover that at the administration of baptism or the Lord's Supper the Lord is acting now in the lives of these people today, once that grabs them, they are owners of an insight that will carry them very far.

And it's one of the reasons that persons appreciate being introduced to the sacraments in the Lutheran church. When they arrive at the understanding that the Almighty and powerful God is right here and now acting graciously for them and for others to seal unto them his gift of the forgiveness of their sins, this is nothing short of exciting and even exhilarating.

They're convinced about the surety, as expressed by Melanchthon in these words, "When we are baptized, when we eat the Lord's body, when we are absolved, our hearts should firmly believe that God really forgives us for Christ's sake." That's how Melanchthon put it centuries ago.

And in our present congregational life, Nick, as you observed, the same God is working as present and powerfully as ever when we handle His word as He instructed us in the sacraments of baptism and the Lord's Supper.

For good reasons then, Lutheran pastors will keep the sacraments before the people. Maybe we should point to just a

couple of ways and means to which you and your brothers probably could add. But I just feel constrained to suggest a couple of things.

Periodically, because the sacraments are of such importance, maybe we ought to have a sermon that addresses one or another aspect of baptism and the Lord's Supper. We don't have to do this every Sunday, but maybe at junctures through the year. It might be well to help our congregations focus on the sacraments and their meaning.

Secondly, Luther's treatment of the sacraments in the small catechism we might bring to light and pursue and share either in messages or in brief little teaching moments in our public worship services.

The sacraments may be subjects of classes and small groups. Why focus only on the serendipity topics when our people gather together? Let's give them the substance of the Gospel in the sacraments and have those for study and discussion.

Here's another venue: In premarital counseling the pastor has opportunity to relate how the use of the sacraments can be a strength to love and marriage as a couple live as heirs together of the grace of life. Wouldn't it be wonderful if a Lutheran pastor pointed a young man and young woman so very much in love to the sustaining of that love together at the Lord's table and their taking of his holy supper?

Messages can be published in the church papers, certainly periodically. And we can prepare some standing materials that are available in an ongoing way for inquirers and also for our own people. These materials, I submit, Nick, should be readily available for people inquiring about the sacrament or those who are preparing to be at the Lord's table and take of his blessings. So those would be a few suggestions to which the list may be expanded certainly. The point is we should not go week to week and month to month and year in and year out without ever helping our people recover what a cherished treasure the sacraments are. We want to keep them in front of the people and their ongoing Christian life in the church.



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>> ERIC: I think I mentioned that I serve a congregation on the east coast, New Jersey to be specific. We have a large number of immigrant communities in our local area, many of which originate from South America -- Peruvian, Colombian, and the like.

A good number of these immigrants are Catholic. Do we consider baptisms done in other churches valid baptisms?

As you can tell, I'm specifically interested in our stance on Roman Catholic baptisms, but I'm sure we should know about baptisms in other denominations as well.

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Okay. Thanks for asking that question, because all of us who are involved in preparing for the office of the ministry want to serve in whatever location in a way that's consistent with what we've been given.

You know, we confess in the third article of the creed "I believe in the holy Christian church, the communion of saints."

In other words, we're not confessing that we're the only Christians, but rather all those who are called by Christ to be his own people, all those who are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit who are gathered around God's Word and Sacraments, these all belong to the holy Christian church in earth and, to be sure, in heaven where those saints are in glory.

So it would be wrong of us to act in what is called a

sectarian way, namely, thinking that we're the only Christians. Even as we are concerned about being consistent and faithful to the doctrine that we've been given in God's word and, for that reason, are interested in practicing church fellowship only with those Christians that believe, teach, and confess this one scriptural faith, we're not thereby denying that God the Holy Spirit indeed calls, gathers, enlightens and sanctifies his whole Christian church on earth and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith.

So what's a pastor to do when someone comes to him saying "I want to join your Lutheran congregation" and he or she has been baptized let's say, as you said, in a Roman Catholic church?

Well, certainly, the first question a faithful pastor would ask is: Is this a legitimate baptism? Has it been done as Christ himself has instituted it?

And, certainly, the Roman Catholic communion does indeed confess the Holy Trinity, the ancient and apostolic faith, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Such is the first question then we would ask of any candidate for membership in our church. Have they been baptized? Have they been baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit as Jesus gave us this sacrament of washing in the name of the triune God?

But, you know, Eric, it's not really just a matter of saying those words. It's certainly possible -- in fact it is a fact there are some people in this world today who might use that formula -- I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- and might even baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And yet they deny officially that very doctrine that God is three separate persons in one undivided substance.

And so it's important that, as a faithful pastor, we would certify that this person has not only been baptized through the proper formula, but -- that is, in a church, in a fellowship that indeed confesses the Trinitarian faith.

These days also one might be concerned about churches that, for whatever reason, cultural or otherwise, might alter the baptismal formula. For example, baptizing in the name of the mother and of the son and the Holy Spirit, avoiding the very words that God himself has used to identify himself as father.

Or perhaps avoiding it in another way by baptizing in the name of the creator, the redeemer, and the sanctifier.

So I think a faithful pastor simply in a very personal way and a very personable way can inquire where has that person been baptized and with what words?

One certainly looks at a church such as you mentioned, the Roman Catholic church, as being very consistently

faithful in using and confessing this Trinitarian faith and in baptizing as Christ himself has instituted.

But, in the case of other Christian fellowships, one must be careful about how these words were done and, in fact, what that church, in the case of a nonChristian fellowship or a sectarian group, what, in fact, that group really believes and teaches and confesses.

So it's important, as you say, that you want to be careful about these matters.



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>> DAVID: Let me ask a question from the opposite end of the spectrum. We're engaged in a lot of outreach in our church. And I have a fair number of unbaptized people involved in adult membership class. At what point should a prospective member be baptized?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: David, you asked a very important question. Especially since, in these times in which we live, we're very, very interested in reaching into an increasingly godless kind of environment with the saving Gospel. And this very question is going to be more and more important for each and every pastor clearly in every part of the country.

So, basically, you're asking at what point then do I baptize a person who's in the process of being instructed?

It might be helpful if we would take a look for a moment at the 8th chapter of the Acts of the Apostles where we see really a case study of how this was done in a unique situation.

The situation is between Phillip, the evangelist and the Ethiopian eunuch who was reading, as you recall, from the Bible, from the Old Testament the scroll of Isaiah where he read these words: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter. And like a lamb before his shearers is silent, so he opens not his mouth. In his humiliation justice was denied him. Who can describe his generation? For his life is taken away from the earth."

And then you remember the eunuch asked Phillip a

wide open question. "Was this man, this prophet, talking about himself or someone else?"

And you remember how Phillip, beginning with that very scripture, taught the good news about Jesus as they were riding along in the chariot.

If you will, this was the course instruction based upon the word of God. It was a catechisis (ph), that is, a unfolding, an unpacking of the faith once delivered to the saints.

It centers in Christ crucified for the sins of the world. The good news about Jesus is really what we're all about in the church, isn't it?

And then a very interesting thing happens as they were riding along. Verse 36. "As they were going along the road, they came to some water. And the Eunuch said, 'See here is water. What prevents me from being baptized?'" what prevents me from being baptized?

So, in the case of adults, the instruction in the faith, the profession of the faith, the desire for baptism is really what's important.

And so it was right then and there that Phillip and the eunuch got into the river. And there the eunuch was received in the kingdom of God by the washing, the regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

But I haven't really answered your question, have I? It's important to remember that in the great commission Jesus said to his church that making disciples involves baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and also "teaching all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

That's really a lifelong process, isn't it? Catechisis really for each and every Christian extends far beyond that course of instruction that they're given at the time they enter the church. But all of life from the cradle to the grave really is a process of constantly growing up into him who is the head even Jesus Christ our Lord. And so we can really say that the Christian is never done learning.

When are they baptized? Well, in our Lutheran church, we are, as we said, a confessional church. We have in our Book of Confessions a layman's Bible, if you will, as Dr. Luther called it, namely, the Small Catechism in which the chief parts of the Christian faith are reflected there.

What are they? The Ten Commandments, that is, the law of God teaches us what is God pleasing, what we are to do and we're not to do, and indeed condemns sin.

Then we have the Gospel. The Apostles' Creed, our gracious God, Father -- the father who created us, the son who redeemed us with his blood, and the Holy Spirit who by the Gospel

calls us to be his own.Then we have the Lord's Prayer in which Christians

are taught to pray for all the good gifts that the father wants to give including the gift of his spirit.

So we pray for those holy things that God gives to us as well as all of our needs both of body and soul.

These first three parts of the catechism are really of the essence of the faith. It's important that Christians then be able to confess this faith that is given to us in God's word. And I would think that at least that plus the instruction of what baptism is -- and now we're moving into the second part of the catechism, namely, Holy Baptism, confession, and the sacrament of the altar.

That sacramental section of the catechism also belongs to the chief articles of the Christian faith.

So, practically speaking, David, and what we've always done is to instruct everyone in all chief six parts before baptism, although, given the unique needs of the individual one can see as in the case of Phillip and the Ethiopian eunuch that, upon the basis of instruction in God's word, both law and Gospel, the good news of Jesus, the power and efficacy of Holy Baptism, one could certainly baptize before admission to the Lord's altar, that is, the sacrament of the altar in terms of adult confirmation or reception into the faith.

So the answer to your question is two-fold: Namely, one would desire to teach the whole faith, all the things that Christ has given to his church on earth. And that takes a whole lifetime.

But one would want to instruct in the chief articles of the faith and then to act accordingly upon profession of faith in God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; desire to be baptized, confessing this Lord Jesus and this God who sent him, the Father and the Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, it's certainly appropriate to baptize those who confess this faith.



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>> NICK: Obviously, baptisms are something we all look forward to doing among our people. Professor, what can you tell me about how baptisms are conducted? What kind of procedures should I follow in baptizing children? What about baptizing adults?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Nick, as someone has once remarked that in the Lutheran church we baptize infants as though they're adults; that is, we address them with questions. Do you believe? Will you be baptized?

At the same time we baptize adults as though they're infants, that is, because we cannot believe in Jesus Christ or Lord or even come to him except by the power of the Holy Spirit. So it is that even adults come into the faith as helpless infants drawn by the invitation of the father in heaven, given faith as a gift through the Holy Spirit who works through the Gospel.

So the question of baptizing infants and baptizing adults really revolves around what baptism itself is.

And, there again, back to the basics. Look to the small catechism. How do we define Holy Baptism. What is baptism? Baptism is not just water, but it is the water which is included in God's command and combined with God's word.

Very interesting words there. Not just water. Certainly it is water. That's what baptism means -- to wash in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But it's not just water. It's

the word of God which is in and with the water that does these things.

So baptism is the water which is included in God's command and combined with God's word. This is the efficacy of the power of Holy Baptism.

What procedures then do we use in baptizing infants? Really, the same procedures that we use in baptizing adults -- faith and the desire to be baptized apply for both.

In the large catechism Dr. Luther remarks we bring these little children to Jesus just like the disciples brought little children to Jesus asking him to touch them. So we bring our own infants to Jesus trusting that God the Holy Spirit will, through his word, create the faith which trusts the word of God in the water. Believing that by the intervention and power of the Holy Spirit who works such faith that child also desires to be baptized into this faith.

So, as a pastor, the practical question is this: Are these infants brought by those who have been given responsibility by God to the font for Holy Baptism? In other words, is one or both parents bringing that child for baptism? If so, we baptize as we're given to do by God himself.

Now, in the case of adults the same question applies. By the power and efficacy of the Holy Spirit through the Word, that person has been given opportunity to believe so we want to hear the confession of the faith which God the Holy Spirit has worked in him or her and then, along with that, the desire to be baptized.

So it is then that in the rite of baptism in our pastoral agenda, the rite of holy Baptism, we first give a basic introduction to what baptism is. We read the text from Mark chapter 16, the very text I quoted a moment earlier where Jesus invites all the little ones, the babes in arms to come to him.

And then we hear the profession of the faith which God the Holy Spirit works and the confession of the apostolic faith. I believe in God the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ his only son. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Christian church, and so forth.

Then the question will you be baptized? Upon this profession of faith worked by the Holy Spirit in full confidence that God indeed is working through the water by means of his word, we baptize in the powerful name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Now, Nick, if I heard you correctly, you asked what procedures do we use? Well, there's some very practical things to remember.

First of all, to have a real baptism, one must have water. What kind of water? H20. The quantity of that water is not really the important thing, but it should be a real water. The church

fathers in our Lutheran church always said there should be a quantity, a sufficient quantity of water so that everyone will know that it is a washing.

Very practical matter in the case of infants, one may certainly baptize either as the parents or the sponsors might hold the child over the font. One can use the provided baptismal shell or also one own's hand in applying this water.

If the pastor takes the child himself, which, again, is certainly a fine outward ceremony to show that Christ himself invites little children to come to him and receives them as his own through their faith in his word. And so a pastor might indeed take the child from his parents, hold him in his own arms, placing the child's body into his arm, his head in his hand. And then with the other hand cupping the water from the font three times. I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Then, holding the child before your face so you can speak directly to the child the blessing which is given through the washing of Holy Baptism. Almighty God, the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has begotten you again by the new birth of water and the Holy Spirit and forgiven you all your sins, strengthen you with His grace into life everlasting. Peace be with you.

And then take the child and hand him back to his parents or even to the sponsors in order to show to the assembled congregation that by this act of Holy Baptism, the child has now been received into the fellowship of Christ's body, the church, the responsibility now of the entire congregation assists that of the parents in order to bring this child up in the fear and nurture of the Lord.

Now, what about baptizing adults in terms of the practical aspects of Holy Baptism? Again, water with the word is important.

But of course you're not going to hold the adult in your arms. Rather, you ask the adult to stand at the font, to bend over the font and to perhaps turn her head to the side and then baptize her in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit just as you would an infant. Speak it again directly to that person, the blessing of God. May God the Father almighty who has begotten you again by water and the spirit forgiven you all your sins strengthen you with His grace into life everlasting. Peace be with you.

And then right there that sign of the cross. That's always been again part of our practice of Holy Baptism. It really comes from the very earliest centuries of the Christian church. Every person St. Paul writes in Romans chapter 6 who has been baptized has been baptized into the death and resurrection of

Jesus. This sign of a cross is an outward tracing of the very

instrument of our salvation to signify that that person has been redeemed by the blood of Christ.

And so, prior to baptism, we make the sign of the cross upon them in order to show them and to show the assembled congregation this mark of God's grace, this blessing that has been given to all Christ's people to be baptized into the death of Jesus by which they are saved and raised with him in newness of life to live before him in righteousness and innocence forever.

That sign of the cross continues to be the mark of every Christian, the sign of God's grace. Their personal identity as a child of the heavenly Father. One has been washed and redeemed in the blood of the lamb who's made to walk before God in newness of life day in and day out until that day when we join with the saints in glory.

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>> JOSH: I'm wondering how I can teach my people the importance of baptism in the Christian life. Can you suggest some ways that baptism can be stressed more in the ongoing life of our congregation?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: I'd be happy to address that, Josh. You know, again, it revolves around what baptism is and then what it does.

People need to be constantly reminded of this tremendous gift. In fact, Dr. Luther called it a precious gem which is given to us in Holy Baptism. In fact, he says, a Christian in his or her baptism is given a whole lifetime of things to do. Why? Because in baptism they are made a child of God. What I do, you see, flows out of who I am.

And so the historic way of understanding Christian baptism is not simply to look back at baptism as something that happened a long time ago. For a lot of people here, and certainly in our fellowship, it happened when they were infants, something that they themselves don't even remember or recall. Maybe they have some mementos of that occasion. Maybe they have some pictures, for example, of their baptismal day. And maybe they have a baptismal certificate. Again, these things tend to be kind of artifacts of the past.

As important as it is for every Christian to know that he or she has been baptized into the Christian faith, above all it's

important to remember that baptism is not something merely from long ago but it's something that's here and now. In fact, the historic way of speaking about baptism is not simply to say "I was baptized" as though it's merely something that happened a long time ago, but rather "I am baptized," namely, I exist now as a child of the heavenly father through faith in Jesus Christ my Lord because I've been claimed by him. I've been incorporated into this family of the Christian faith. I've been washed in the name of the father who created me, the son who redeemed me by His blood, and the Holy Spirit who by Holy Baptism has made my body to be his temple.

It's quite a powerful thing when you stop and think about it. It's really a mark of God's ownership upon us.

I think Josh out there in Wyoming may still have the practice of branding cattle on the open range in order to mark them as -- as belonging to certain owners, certain ranchers.

Well, in baptism, we've been given God's own brand, if you will. We've been claimed out from the kingdom of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of light. We've been marked with the sign of the cross. We've been buried by baptism into the death and resurrection of Jesus. This is who we are as God's people. It's a powerful sign of God's redemption.

In fact, you remember in the Small Catechism, every morning and every evening Dr. Luther suggested that we remind ourselves that we are baptized, not merely that we were baptized.

By invocation of the Holy Trinity in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, he says, make the sign of the cross when you call upon the name of the Holy Trinity.

Now, of course, this is a matter of Christian freedom. And we would never insist that every baptized Christian use that external sign of the cross.

But to answer your question how do we teach the ongoing importance of Holy Baptism, well, certainly by the recollection of who we are again as a baptized believer.

Every time we invoke that divine name into which we have been baptized, we're actively recalling and participating in all the gifts that God gave us when we were washed in his powerful name.

Now, some practical suggestions might be remember not just people's birthday into which they were born physically, but also their baptismal birthday by which they were born again from above by the power of the Holy Spirit through the washing of water with the word.

One way to do that would be to make yourself a list of everyone's baptismal birthdays. And you, as a pastor then, could send them a little card. That's unusual in our time. Or at least pick up the phone and talk to them to congratulate them on being God's

child by virtue of his washing to rejoice with him at his gifts that were given to them in their baptism, to remind them who they are as God's people.

There are other opportunities as well. For example, every Easter day it's possible to use the rite of the renewal of baptism so that we would recall again that great Paschal feast, that Easter feast, remembering and rejoicing that we serve a living Savior who once was dead but now is alive forever and ever.

We can also actively recall that we've been buried into his death and raised again into faith in him by newness into life by our baptism into him.

It's a wonderful rite of recollection of Holy Baptism that really adds a whole new dimension to the Easter celebration.

Beyond that I think it's important that we teach people actively from the pulpit as appropriate, certainly in our classes, and then individually when we call upon people, especially at moments in crisis in their life, what it means to be a baptized child of God; that we then actively remember and recall and participate in our baptism on a daily basis.

You remember in the last question, the fourth question in the Small Catechism, under Holy Baptism we read "What does such baptizing with water indicate?"

It indicates that the old Adam in us should by daily contrition and repentance be drowned and die together with all sins and evil desires and that a new man should daily emerge and arise to live before God in righteousness and purity forever. That's on the basis, again, of the promises which God makes in Romans chapter 6 where St. Paul writes, "We were, therefore, buried with him by baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life."

So we can teach our people that they actively recall and participate in their baptism by daily -- by contrition and repentance -- drowning their old sinful flesh.

And, therefore, by the grace of God, by faith in Jesus Christ, the new man that they are in Jesus by virtue of their baptism in Him might daily emerge and arise. That's an ongoing process.

No wonder then that Dr. Luther said that each and every Christian has a whole lifetime of service to Christ in his or her baptism into that Lord who bought them and saved them and made them his own in this magnificent washing of water with the word. It's an ongoing lively reality through faith in Jesus.


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>> ERIC: Are there circumstances which require extra care and thoughtfulness when baptizing persons?

I, for instance, have run into at least one situation when a person was surprised that the baptism would occur in the context of a worship service.

I can also conceive of unique medical situations or misconceptions about the beneficial nature of baptism.

What kind of instruction might be necessary before a baptism? What types of circumstances should we prepare to handle with regards to baptism?

>> PROF. WARNECK: Eric, how does a pastor help his people arrange for the baptism of a child or the baptism of another member of the family? Certainly the pastor's counsel and his guidance and direction are absolutely essential here, and we'd like to talk about that a bit as we address some particular and special circumstances surrounding these matters.

Now I have in mind, first of all, the matter of sponsors. This may have been addressed earlier, but may I just add that in the Lutheran church we attempt to help our families find sponsors or godparents, persons who want to assist father and mother.

In the spiritual care and training and upbringing of children, for instance, we want to find those persons within the community of faith. Ideally within the family the parents of a small child to be baptized might find those Christian people, those who

might serve as sponsors. If they cannot find them within their own family, it

certainly is well and good to go to the congregation. There may be persons in our churches in our congregations who would be glad to become sponsors of a baptized child.

If our families go beyond our own fellowship, may, for instance, a Roman Catholic or a Methodist, Christians of other denominations serve as sponsors? How do we guide our parents in this regard?

To be sure sponsors should be Christians. It would be very ill-advised for parents to find in their circle of friends a Muslim or a person in pursuit of the Buddhist faith or whatever, some nonChristian faith. It would be doubtful that those persons could really serve as sponsors.

If they find friends who are members of other Christian churches or denominations, may I suggest that possibly these persons can serve with some provisions.

It seems, Eric, we always have to suggest that these persons from outside our own community of faith will be willing to say that should the primary spiritual care of the baptized child ever fall to their responsibility, let us say in the absence of the parents for one unforeseen reason or another, that these sponsors then would raise the child -- and they make the commitment to do so -- to raise that child in the parent's faith, that is, in the Lutheran faith.

Hopefully, we might get that commitment from sponsors who are chosen from a circle of friends outside of our Lutheran church.

But, ideally, they would be -- sponsors should be members of the Lutheran church. That would be our first preference.

Now, there are some other circumstances surrounding baptism and some other questions that pastors must necessarily at times.

Here is one real crucial question. Supposing in your church or your parish, Eric, a child dies before the opportunity to receive Holy Baptism. This occurs occasionally.

And parents are very much grieved over this. On the one hand, our Lord makes it clear that baptism is for our children when he said baptize all nations and little children should be brought to him in this sacrament. But the opportunity for this child has been denied.

And the question in the minds of the parents how is it with my little one who died without baptism? How do we address that?

Eric, our pastoral practice on this point and pastoral reflection has traditionally said in the first place that the church

certainly is bound to this means of grace of Holy Baptism. That's what our Lord commanded.

But God himself is not so bound. God has taken the life of this little one. He is the Lord who gives life and takes life and precipitously before normal circumstances when the child could be baptized. We leave that to God's hands. He is still the prime player here. We need to assure our parents.

Indeed, this is difficult to comprehend. And Christians are sometimes tempted to consider that God may be very capricious in taking the life of a child prior to the new life in baptism. Occasionally, the church has resorted to some rationalizations of various kinds on this subject that we wonder are they really very helpful.

Our best approach, Eric, I think, is this: That we direct these grieving parents to the Lord God and all that we know about Him and His love and His mercy also His kindness and His tender care on the basis of God's own self-disclosure to us in Christ Jesus.

The apostle Paul put it this way: We can virtually comprehend by faith is what he means when he says that we see the essential things about our God in the face of Christ Jesus. II Corinthians 4, verse 6.

We see a God who so loved us that he did not spare his own son but gave him up into death on the cross for us all. The cross, the bitter suffering and death of Jesus for our sins communicates God's boundless love, that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Can we trust our child to such a God and father? Hopefully. Of course.

And that's the direction I think, Eric, that you might be well-advised to take with parents who are stricken with that tremendous burden of grief over the child who was taken from them before baptism.

For all of the suggested helps of rationalizations one kind or another, still our focus is best on the very nature of God as he discloses himself to us and His love and His tender care, His grace and His mercy in the Lord Jesus Christ.

About the safety of the child taken by God, you recall King David's loss of his son. He said, "Can I bring him back again?" And his answer, "I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."

Some theologians direct parents to I Corinthians 7:14 "For the unbelieving wife who is consecrated through her husband otherwise your children would be unclean. But, as it is, they are holy."

But the use of this passage in our particular instance

addressing this particular question seems to give parents to discover comfort in their own Christian faith when the parents are wondering about the child's saving faith.

In some quarters much is made of the child carried in the womb of its Christian mother who with her husband live in a Christian home where devotions are held, a family who attends church and holy communion.

And the appeal is made to Roman 10 verse 12 that faith comes by hearing the word of God, the inference being that the child, though yet unborn, at that point heard the word of God through which the Holy Spirit works faith.

But I wonder, Eric, if this is a really strong argument? Does such reasoning really comfort grieving parents? Yes, we read, when Mary carrying the infant Jesus in her womb greeted her cousin, Elizabeth, the child, John, leaped in Elizabeth's womb. Luke 1, verse 41.

Certainly this event was a sign pointing to the Christ child. Does it teach, however, even by inference, that the unborn child hears the word within the mother's womb? I don't know.

Our best course, as I repeat once again, is to point parents to God in his revealed grace and goodness in Christ Jesus. And invite them to commend their child to him.

Now, Eric, you may surmise that there is a related unusual circumstance. And it is this that comes to the Christian pastor sometimes in the rush of an emergency situation. When a child is born, as we say -- as we formerly said, stillborn, a frantic father might call you as pastor. "Please come to the hospital. Rush here. And baptize our child."

We have to empathize with the -- the agony and the pain suffered by those parents, certainly.

Yet our pastoral practice in this instance, is it well to just move forward and accede to that kind of emotional request and baptize a stillborn child? That would be our question here.

I always share in classes that I certainly would not fault a pastor for baptizing a child in that instance. Not at all.

But, then again, the question is whether or not that action -- because the Lord has already acted in the disposition of the soul of that child in taking that soul to himself -- whether baptism in that instance is going to in the long term really help and comfort these grieving parents.

Eric, would it not be of greater comfort to such parents to convince them that God has already acted for their little one? The God who gives life, that God has taken life. And, knowing our God as He is, as we emphasized before in Christ, as a God of love and mercy, compassion, that we now commend this child to Him as God has so acted. We abide by His will.

I suggest, Eric, that moving parents in this direction will move toward the closure that seems to be most helpful to them in the long-term.

Furthermore, there is evidence in the scriptures that both circumcision under the old covenant and baptism of the new were intended for the living only. I think we have to reckon with this.

When our Lord addressed Nicodemus, he stated, "You must be born again."

Nicodemus reflected, "Must I enter my mother's womb and be born a second time?"

No, our Lord was speaking about the new birth of a living person once born from their mother's womb.

The sacrament, ostensibly, is for the living. I think this has to be stated, at least in our thinking and in our review or our approach, to this very difficult pastoral care situation. To administer baptism to a child now dead could -- I say could bring hurt instead of comfort to parents who later in their life in the Christian congregation and the public worship services are going to see again and again that baptism is administered for the living.

Always they will be taunted by the memory that their child was not living. The child had died.

And then the question: What cause baptism in that instance? Would it not be better to try to help these parents arrive at some amount of closure the very time this tragedy occurs to prevent mixed feelings of loss and guilt and disappointment that may trouble them in time to come.

We want to emphasize, Eric, that there's a basic pastoral practice principle here that comes to the fore. And it needs to be said in difficult cases particularly.

We, as Christian pastors, help people only when we comfort them on the basis of sure and certain words and promises of God. If we attempt to comfort and counsel on the basis of our reasoning, which cannot be sustained always by those divine words and promises, that kind of care may stand to hurt rather than help and to heal.

And I cite this basic principle, I think, for good reason. Our counsel and our care brings the sure and clear words and promises of God and fairly well should be within that range. Else, our care might turn to be otherwise than we had initially intended.

Now, a corollary to this principle, Eric, is yet another. We administer the sacraments within the boundaries of normality, normal circumstances.

Our Lord gives no indication of how administer the sacraments in out-of-the-ordinary circumstances. Those rubrics are simply not there.

And so we question some other inferences that persons sometimes make in the very area that we are speaking. For instance, it has been suggested that when a child's welfare prior to being born is jeopardized in one way or another or possibly jeopardized, that we administer so-called intra-uterine baptism through the use of an invasive technique which would bear water to the unborn child inside its mothers womb.

Should a pastor be pressed for that kind of administration of the sacrament? I don't know. I kind of think not. Nor should a pastor be pressed to baptize an unborn child by simply pouring water on the exterior of the mother's womb.

These are somewhat unusual circumstances that I wonder whether these things were ever in the picture when our Lord instituted the sacrament.

He did not press the church to use extraordinary means. Where it is impossible to administer baptism, He is able to intervene in His own grace and mercy, we have to believe.

Certainly, children who are born with deformities we should baptize. Even a child fully formed but hardly more than a miscarriage, if living, may be baptized, as C.F.W. Walther teaches.

Though prepared indeed to baptize the living, still the church's ministry is not required to engage sophisticated technology in order to administer the sacraments. Nothing in scripture infers that the church must extend its sacramental ministry in unusual ways. Well, I'm repeating myself a bit, Eric, on this point.

We could mention some unfortunate instances where parental neglect was the apparent reason that a child was not baptized before some tragic occurrence. I'll cite you an instance.

Here's a family. They're blessed with a child, and they do not get around to arranging for a -- his or her baptism.

The pastor calls them six weeks after the child is born. Are you going to make arrangements to have the little one baptized?

And they say, "Well, we're going to get around to that. We have to contact some people and so on; and we'll get back to you, pastor." Well, they don't get back to the pastor. The pastor makes further contact over a long period of time. This goes on for a year, year and a half, two years.

And one day the child is playing on the porch of a second floor apartment. And the spokes in the fence around the porch are somewhat wide, at least wide enough and the child somehow slips through, falls to its death.

And now the parents are not only grieved at the loss of their child, but they are in pain and agony over the fact that they neglected so long to have the little one baptized.

Well, in an instance like that, we can -- we may

certainly counsel parents in this direction that God is still gracious and merciful and He -- he certainly in His grace will not hold the missed opportunity for baptism to the child's account.

And, certainly, with those parents who are grieving in guilt and a sense of repentance, we want to assure them of God's mercy and forgiveness of sins and the help that the Gospel gives them in such a tragic circumstance.

God is gracious, and He is able to receive the soul of a child to himself into heaven. And He will do it. And He's also gracious and merciful to these parents. All right. We're speaking about unusual circumstances.

When a pastor is approached to baptize a child without the permission of the parents, how, Eric, do we proceed in that kind of a circumstance?

A God-fearing grandmother may plead with her pastor. "My daughter and her husband have no interest in seeing that my granddaughter is baptized. Would you, Pastor, baptize the little one in private if I bring her to church one evening while babysitting for her?"

Well, consistently our Lutheran pastoral practice has been to respect the first authority over the child, in this instance, the parents. We hesitate to baptize against the will of the parents. This is a fourth commandment issue. Probably we're correct on that.

It has been suggested that a grandparent, however, is a blood relative of the child. But that is really not what the fourth commandment and parallel passages are speaking about. There is parental authority. And we do well to respect that.

What the pastor can do is intervene and make an evangelical appeal to the parents to permit the child to be baptized even if they do not believe or are indifferent to the sacrament themselves. If the pastor gains parental permission, he then is able to proceed and baptize such a child.

Finally, in this area of unusual circumstances, a request may come to you, Eric, to baptize elderly and senile persons. The request may come from a relative. Perhaps this relative has custodial care of these very mentally diminished persons.

The Lord's command to baptize is to baptize all. And that's certainly a factor here. And yet the pastor would want to be assured that such persons when -- in their life they had full command of their senses and were rational, that they were not hostile to Christ or the church and not resistant to the sacrament. Because, you see, it is a very unusual thing that they have lived so many years and very likely and some -- some connection with the church, though very indirect, but they're not baptized. And now the

conscientious relative wants them to be baptized lest they die without the blessing of the sacrament.

Well, all of these things considered, the pastor certainly will baptize such persons even though their intellectual faculties are spent, as it were. They cannot receive adult instruction or a normal course of a normal track with adults. Those faculties are simply not there. And he will have to baptize them somewhat in the manner of administering infant baptism.

But the point made -- we want to make sure is that we don't want to be stingy with baptism. We want to make the sacrament available. And that issue we're going to address in a little more detail in another question and another discussion, Eric.



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>> ERIC: Thank you. As long as I'm asking such questions, are there

circumstances when a pastor should advisedly refuse to baptize?

>> DR. WARNECK: Eric, in answer to your question, there may be a circumstance where we would refuse to baptize. But, in all likelihood, we want to be generous with the sacrament and respond positively and actively when we are asked to administer this wonderful sacrament of God's grace and forgiveness.

I would begin with the -- I would counter your question with another question in our discussion here as we get started.

Is this a legitimate question that a pastor -- are there circumstances where he would refuse baptism? Is that a legitimate question?

Under our Lord's mandate and also through his grace, and the power of baptism to turn souls from sin to God by union with Christ in His death and resurrection, hardly should we be refusing baptism. Withholding the

sacrament is just not in the cards, so to speak. I think we have to begin right there and be very emphatic on this point.

And, yet, we recognize that with Holy Baptism comes the obligation to instruct and to teach the Christian faith following administration of the sacrament.

This obligation is there in the great commission itself. Our words of our Lord: "Teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you." Matthew 28, verse 20.

When anxious family members press the pastor to baptize a relative who in earlier rational moments gave every indication that he or she rejected baptism or the Christian faith, that is an instance, an unusual instance, where the pastor may consider refusing the sacrament.

We would not want to baptize, for instance, a person in the physical status of the persons we discussed in an earlier part of our subject. If they had been hostile to the Christian faith, we wouldn't force the sacrament on such people.

Also, in circumstances when follow-up teaching is not at all in the picture, the pastor might consider refusal of baptism. But extra caution here is certainly necessary.

A careful pastoral judgment is required. We should not easily refuse baptism, we say it again, lest we withhold the gifts of God from him who He would reach His Holy Spirit.

Certainly we do not baptize in a vacuum. The pastor should have some assurance that under normal circumstances parents and sponsors will see that the baptized child is properly instructed at home and by the agencies of the church beginning with the cradle roll and Sunday school, later confirmation instruction and classes at the church.

Sometimes the pastor lacks such assurance. The situation may be very unstable. The parents may be inactive Christians or the family life so disintegrated and unstable that continued nurture of the baptized child may to all appearances be in jeopardy.

Even so, would it not be the better part of wisdom, Eric, to baptize the child and to follow up carefully so that the home is encouraged to fulfill the responsibility to teach the child? Then the church in its ministry may invoke extra resources, if needed.

Better to walk with the child than to refuse baptism just because all is not favorable with respect to follow-up instruction.

Eric, we disagree with pastoral practice which

refuses baptism because parents have not met certain expectations or even standards in terms of their own church membership and faithfulness. Shall we deny the child because of the fault of the parents?

So let us be generous with baptism. Then make every effort to continuous pastoral care so that the baptized child does receive the instruction that our Lord intended for him or her. That would seem to be a sound pastoral approach, Eric.

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>> NICK: Eric's mention of instruction brought to mind confirmation for me. Do you mind if I begin to ask questions about that topic?

I suppose I'm curious to know the history of the practice of confirmation. Does the meaning of confirmation in former times help us to develop our own confirmation practices?

>> DR. WARNECK: Well, Nick, confirmation practice today is about as diverse as the 32 flavors of ice cream at Baskin Robbins, if you have Baskin Robbins in your part of the country.

There are so many curriculums and ways of approaching the instruction that we have historically known as confirmation instruction for children and adults that a pastor is somewhat on the horns of a dilemma in selecting what particular program is helpful for his children and the adults in his parish and his community.

Helpful in sorting things out is a review of some of the salient parts of instruction as the church has comprehended those through the years.

You may approached by persons today who want to change the pattern of confirmation instruction and

some of the content of it. I think of some of these intense mothers of children in the preteen years who want the pastor to reframe confirmation in such a way that we address principally such issues as dating, sexuality, getting along with other people, the relational issues and the like.

But, when we review the practice as the church has understood confirmation instruction through the years, we arrive at the conclusion that this instruction is a special opportunity, Nick, for your boys and girls and your adults as well to discover the Christian faith for what it is as God has delivered His teachings and doctrines to us in His holy word. That's an opportunity which children and adults in our churches should not miss.

And it's a real opportunity for pastors to focus their instruction in such a way that we can be reasonably sure that children and adults going through the program have a good grasp of what the important teachings of God's word are from creation to the last times and everything in between.

So let's review briefly, if you will, if you may indulge a little attention to some of those historic patterns of confirmation from which we can learn some good things as well as some practices to avoid as we attempt to formulate our own approach to confirmation instruction today.

The early church had a pretty fair grasp on this whole matter. Their practice in confirmation was rooted in baptism. And that's where things begin.

The candidates for confirmation were baptized on Easter eve. They were confirmed with chrism, prayers, and the signs of the cross and the laying on of hands, very rudimentary aspects of what later developed into more formal confirmation practices.

These were persons who, for as long as two or three years, had gathered with the community of faith and worshipped, were properly instructed and taught. And then it all came to a head, so to speak, on that Easter eve when they were baptized. And baptism has been pivotal for confirmation ever since.

Scrolling forward to the Reformation era, Dr. Martin Luther practiced something of a very informal confirmation because he had some sensitivities about the formalized rite in the Roman church, particularly the notion in Roman Catholic theology at that time that confirmation in a way completes baptism.

That notion was absolutely repugnant to Luther for the reason that baptism itself needs no complement. It is

the means of grace. And baptized into Christ Jesus, a Christian comes forth as a believer and as one who is headed toward the Christian life. So baptism needed no complement, and Luther was very sensitive on that issue.

And, of course, when the Council of Florence in 1439 established confirmation in the Roman Catholic regimen of the sacraments, confirmation becoming a sacrament in the church which conferred in their view a certain indelible sign, neither was that palatable to Luther.

Well. What was the real strength of confirmation in Luther's practice? It was instruction in Christian doctrine following baptism and then looking toward the Lord's Supper and helping to prepare the catechumen for taking the Lord's Supper.

And this type of confirmation in the Reformation era came to be known as the catechetical type.

Now, there were some types of confirmation that followed the Reformation time and era. And a fine source for review of this whole story of confirmation in the Lutheran church is a book by that very title authored by Dr. Arthur Repp. And we would commend that volume to you for further study into the background of confirmation practices as we know them today.

But for now let's just light on those various types of confirmation as they developed in the post-Reformation and premodern eras.

In Luther's time, as we said, the accent was on instruction. And his catechisms were used in the home. And in the church catechetical sermons were preached.

And, with respect to children, there was no real formal rite. When a child was instructed, the parents brought the child to the pastor who examined the child briefly. And, subsequently, he or she was permitted to come to the Lord's table with his or her family.

The first elements of a public rite of confirmation were a confession of faith associated with that examination and then added prayers of the church for the catechumen.

But the public nature of the rite first began to appear in what Dr. Repp calls the hierarchical type of confirmation developed principally by the -- by Martin Bucer in the late 16th century, middle to late 16th century.

And two elements were added here -- a surrender to Christ in the form of a confession of faith and willing submission to the discipline of the church. And confirmands were required to make these affirmations

publicly. Further emphasis then was placed upon a

surrender to the church and its discipline rather than daily repentance and forgiveness of sins growing out of one's baptism and the remembrance of one's baptism, as Dr. Repp notes here in his observation.

The accents were first the Holy Spirit as given through the laying on of hands -- this is the hierarchical nature -- completing baptism, and now confirmation confers new and full membership in the church with all its rites and privileges. And we're already sensing how some of that phraseology still prevails and lingers and hangs on in our current rites.

So we have spoken about the catechetical type, the hierarchical type -- and my comments just previously actually described a third type, the sacramental type -- all at the time of the Reformation era in the 16th century.

Before we speak about two more rites that developed later, we ought to summarize here that in the 16th century for Lutheran confirmation, there were some accents that are worth noting.

First, the Lutherans rejected the Roman Catholic doctrine of confirmation as a sacrament. That was set aside.

Secondly, Lutherans specified Christian instruction before the catechumen was presented for confirmation or first communion.

Thirdly, for Lutherans confirmation was associated with both sacraments -- baptism and a the Lord's Supper.

And, fourthly, the catechumen taking first communion was rarely over the age of 12 years. Some may have been as young as 7 or 8 years. No one chronological age was recognized, according to Dr. Repp's studies of this subject.

Now, with those accents emphasized, once again, by way of review in the Reformation era and the early post-Reformation era, two other types of confirmation developed in Europe following the 16th century.

And the first is the pietistic type developed as a reaction to orthodoxy and meaningful instruction. And two characteristics are first a suggestive element was introduced and attributed to Jacob Philip Spener in the early 18th century. The candidate was to renew his or her baptismal vow in their own experience.

Now, this is a change. And this versus remembrance of baptism and the unilateral covenant which God makes through Holy Baptism. Expectedly, there was a deemphasis in the pietistic type, a deemphasis on baptism all together.

Much more focus was on the catechumen, the confirmand, and his or her experience of the faith versus confession of the faith.

And this nuance is going to be apparent later on when we come to our very modern era, the early 21st century. I'm going to point out some models of confirmation in the ELCA particularly and models that are used by some Missouri synod pastors for better or for worse. But this is to be noted at this time, this experiential component.

Secondly, the catechumen ratifies his or her baptismal covenant, Gives witness of personal faith or conversion, and personally accepts obligation to the Christian life.

Once again, the focus is very somewhat man-centered, if you will. And this versus the earlier accents upon the working of the Holy Spirit and the unilateral covenant of God's grace in Holy Baptism. So we see some digression from those Lutheran accents we reviewed just a moment ago.

The second post-Reformation type was known as the rationalistic type of confirmation in which some of those sacramental features we referred to a moment ago kind of developed in full bloom.

Congregational rights and privileges are bestowed on the child. Celebrations of youth, coming of age and so on.

Customs evolved particularly in the 18th and 19th century, some of which continue in our present time. Some of them good, some of them less than salutary. Such things as the wearing of white gowns, the confirmation certificate, the special scripture passage assigned to each of the children in the class, confirmation sermons, the focus of the laying on of hands in the rite by the ringing of the bell in the church tower, the earnest confirmation vow to be faithful, focus on Palm Sunday, which we've moved away from in our more contemporary times. But for many decades it was understood that confirmation just happened on Palm Sunday. And many other local customs developed surrounding confirmation.

The most significant thing about the rationalistic type, however, is that versus the pietistic

emphasis on the catechumen's experience, the rationalistic type emphasized in mental comprehension of the doctrines in a cognitive intellectual way.

Now, that's not all bad. But, if it is overemphasized to the neglect of the affective domain, it can be a distortion.

In some parts of Germany in the 19th century, children were required to almost master what is comparable to our dogmatics instruction today. So thorough was the intellect and the mind involved in the study of the doctrines of the faith. As I say, that's not all bad in itself. But carried to an extreme it could be deleterious.

Well, these are a few descriptive comments on five paradigms or patterns of confirmation that developed through church history and principally in the Reformation and the centuries thereafter until our present day.

Now, today we are dealing with very much visibility given to a shift in confirmation instruction particularly emanating from the ELCA. And this is documented by a man like Kent Johnson in their own camp, if you may.

And the shift goes like this: In the place of so much emphasis on doctrine, we now move toward an emphasis on the children and their relationships beginning with self-understanding and then their relationships with others.

And the programs of confirmation, the curriculum activities and the like, are very much relational-oriented versus a focus on Christian doctrine.

It seems that maybe we have overreacted to the rationalistic excesses. And now the question is in many of these programs of children's confirmation at least where is the doctrine and how are Christians firmed up in those things which we surely believe as Christians?



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>> NICK: Thank you. Let me continue along the same line, if I may. What are essential components of Lutheran confirmation practice?

>> DR. WARNECK: Nick, probably it's well for us to sort out some of the details that we shared in the previous discussion historically and attempt to focus on what ought to occupy the pastor with his confirmands in today's confirmation instruction.

And perhaps also recommend a couple of disciplines that might be helpful in your teaching of the Christian faith in these classes.

Essentials of Lutheran confirmation practice today would seem to be several. First of all, the accent we learned in the early church that Lutheran confirmation is between the two sacraments.

I think positioning confirmation this way in our thinking can be helpful as we prepare to teach children and adults. On the one hand, confirmation recalls the unilateral covenant made by God with children by grace through Christ Jesus in their Holy Baptism.

Secondly, it points forward as it serves to prepare these children, these catechumens for taking the

Lord's Supper. Secondly, perhaps we should focus on the

word "confirm" just briefly. Where does the real confirming occur and how does it occur? What is our understanding about this?

Frequently, in the minds of our people, their attention goes to the rite, the public rite when children are standing there before the altar as if the laying on of hands at that time does the actual confirming. We should perhaps correct that in our minds and our thinking just a little bit.

The Holy Spirit actually confirms as the spirit gives faith. And the action of the Holy Spirit begins not on Palm Sunday or Pentecost late in spring when we conduct the right, or one of the Sundays in the spring season of the year, but begins already in September when we gather children for the first confirmation class sessions. And, throughout all those sessions through the year, the Holy Spirit is active confirming children in their faith. So perhaps a change in perception here might be useful.

Thirdly, when we speak about full membership in the church, let's understand that membership in Christ's body, His church, occurs at Holy Baptism.

Unfortunate is the distinction in our perception again among many Lutheran people between communicate members, those with the privilege to take communion, and baptized members. Kind of a second class citizens.

I, myself, grew up in the generation when the perception was you did not become a member of the church until you were confirmed.

That's probably a misconception that should be corrected. A child baptized into Christ Jesus is baptized into His body and into the church, the body of Christ, is a full-fledged member. Let's always represent membership in the church that way out of baptism.

Next, a word about instruction moving toward the Lord's Supper and, particularly, the accent that all of the instruction in catechism class relates one way or another to this very central sacrament and gift of our Lord in the life of His people, the gift of His body and blood for the strengthening of their faith and the forgiveness of their sins and assurance of that in their personal life and in their corporate life together.

So, perhaps in the teaching of confirmation, we ought to more frequently relate those various doctrines to the Lord's Supper if we are really pointing children in that direction. For instance, even the doctrine of man, when we

teach about man's fall will into sin and His need for the forgiveness of sin and peace with God, effected through Christ Jesus, it's very easy to take the leap to the Lord's Supper and say that those blessings are given and assured by Christ in the supper to which he gathers His people.

The confession of faith made in confirmation, in the rite of confirmation, again, we should not overlook the fact that a Christian child from the time of his or her baptism has been confessing his or her faith and that, in the rite of confirmation, it is one public confession of faith following upon many opportunities that the child in his neighborhood, community, at school and with his friends has been able to confess faith in Jesus and witness to Jesus to others.

It's just a little twist and a little different nuance from some of our historical understandings that may be helpful to emphasize.

What else can we say here about essential components of Lutheran confirmation practice?

The confirmation vow, the statement that confirm and make in the rite, let's say something about that, where we ask -- as pastors we ask children to say that they will remain faithful in this confession of faith until -- even until death and under the pressure of persecution, whatever, is what we really mean to say.

We probably should bind them not to a volitional action on their part as if it was all them and only them making this confession, but to help them comprehend that it is the Holy Spirit that continues a good work in their life.

And maybe we ought to emphasize a little more to ask children to be faithful to the -- in the use of those means of grace whereby the Holy Spirit strengthens and helps them continue faithfully in that confession.

Again, it's just a little different twist. But perhaps we can improve on some of the perceptions that surround our practice of confirmation and particularly the rite.

Last point I would simply mention here is the laying on of hands can be interpreted variously. My own understanding of this is that it's rather symbolic in the sense that it conveys the notion that the Holy Spirit has worked the faith in the child through baptism and further instruction in the word and now the child is prepared to make public confession of the same.

It signifies the Holy Spirit's work. I think we best leave the interpretation of the laying on of hands kind of right there. At least that is one view.

Now, I said that beyond some of these essentials, we would perhaps focus a few words on some practical issues.

When pastors today design their curriculum, that is the track that children follow and study in these confirmation classes, our recommendation is that the Small Catechism of Dr. Martin Luther serve as the core of that course and instruction. This is such a treasure that Lutheran pastors are well-advised to involve their children at this time in their life in Luther's Small Catechism.

To deny them that and substitute all together other materials and the like, I think -- and I would urge upon you, Nick -- would be a mistake.

We may use supplemental materials to enhance understanding, certainly, workbooks and the like. But make Luther's Small Catechism the core of your confirmation instruction, the 6 chief parts of Christian doctrine. Let's get down to real basics here. You can't improve on that.

Secondly, it's always well to relate the doctrines in Luther's catechism to the scriptures themselves. And our church's editions of the catechism do this so very well. Throughout the catechism and the exposition, the questions and answers are scripture passages but also Bible narratives. And we do well to teach our children the doctrines from those Bible narratives, those Bible stories.

If children are unfamiliar with a the Bible stories, add to your curriculum a Bible history book or volume that helps them learn the great stories of God's revelation and his interaction with his people.

Now, here's an example: How do you teach the sin of covetousness which God forbids, which he indicts and judges and forbids in the 9th and 10th commandment? "Thou shalt not covet."

How better to teach that particular point than the Bible story of King Ahab and Naboth's vineyard, the neighbor to the palace in Samaria. The king wanted this beautiful vineyard. He first offers to purchase the vineyard. His neighbor says, "I cannot sell it. I'm under strictures of inheritance and the like." So that's out of the picture.

And then Ahab goes home. And in the palace he is pouting. And his wife Jezabel, the evil queen, determines that they're going to get the vineyard anyway. This is covetousness at work.

As you know, the story then leads to sins against the 7th commandment, the 8th commandment, and

finally the 5th commandment. You remember the story how Naboth's reputation was destroyed in the eyes of the authorities in the village.

Secondly, he was condemned and executed. And, thirdly, Ahab then confiscated the vineyard which was not to be his. So you have covetousness as a root sin for three other sins.

I go into some detail on this simply to underscore that those Bible narratives are rather well-chosen as they're placed in the catechism. And we can teach Christian doctrine from the vantage of the scriptures themselves, which is the best authority and the best teaching in the end.

Let's say a word about memory work. Is this entirely passe? Children in various schools around the country probably some memorize, some don't.

Traditionally in our Lutheran church, children committed to memory the six chief parts of Luther's catechism itself and then some of the salient questions and answers and then some of the supporting Bible passages. That was the program of instruction for decades.

Where is it going today? Is memory work useful? We still think that it is. Maybe not in the great volume that children were required to master in former times. But memorizing serves to anchor in the child's mind and heart the salient points of Christian doctrine and link those with the key scriptures supporting them.

Secondly, memorizing some salient key points in Christian doctrine will equip the child to witness to his or her faith to others, should do that.

And, thirdly, anticipating the Christian's long time on earth until old age, what the elderly remember of their confirmation instruction can very well serve them as a comfort, bring the comfort of the word to them in their later years.

So memory work is still useful. But every pastor has to decide how much and what to memorize and so on.

I just think some of those key questions in the catechism and the answers to them are almost essential. Who is the only true God? Why is it important that we believe that Jesus Christ was true God and also true man? Why is the resurrection of our Lord of such great importance and comfort to us? What do we believe about the Lord's Supper and the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the holy supper?

Answers to those key questions of that kind would seem well for children to carry with them. And memory will help them.

Of course, when we assign memory work, practically speaking, we have to have the patience to hear it. And that takes some patience. But the overall discipline will be profitable, we think. And it's, of course, for you to decide.

Just a closing word about adult confirmation. The gathering of classes of persons from outside our congregation who might inquire about the Christian faith, this has to take some preplanning.

Part of our evangelism ministry in the local church is certainly involved in gathering these classes. We have to do more than simply put an announcement in the bulletin that the pastor's class is going to begin on Thursday evening. Much more than that. Much more groundwork has to be done with prospects and cultivation of them and real intentional effort to gather these classes.

As a curriculum, I'm going to be so bold to recommend a particular curriculum, even though it may be beyond the purview of this exercise. But Dr. Guido Merkins at Concordian San Antonio used this curriculum, and many pastors have found it very useful.

Oswald Riess, "What Does the Bible Say?" Is a very helpful source for this reason, that Riess has a program of study that's somewhat deductive. And that just works well with the inquirer. He moves from the doctrine of God and creation and scripture all the way to the end times and all the doctrines in between with this methodology.

He asks a question: What does the -- what is the meaning of a particular doctrine? Secondly, what does the Bible say? And then he cites some structure passages that address the question. And, thirdly, he concludes from this we learn.

Now, that's a very sketchy outline of the methodology. But I, myself, and many others pastors have found that a very useful way which permits the pastor to interject all kinds of his own reflections and teachings and teaching aides. But the basic deductive approach is very helpful and very useful.

So these are a few comments on some practical issues surrounding your practice of confirmation. And there are many more, and you'll want to discuss those with your fellows and with your mentors. And we thank you.



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>> DAVID: A lot of the people around my church here in Cleveland work blue collar jobs at all hours and on weekends. How much instruction is necessary for new members? I worry about asking too much of them. How would you suggest we handle this within our congregations?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Well, David, I can understand that presents a unique problem for you and, undoubtedly, for a lot of pastors around the synod in various corners of our country, because people do have different schedules. And increasingly now we find that all kinds of people have all kinds of demands on their time.

So finding an opportunity, finding an ideal time for such instruction might be a problem. Part of the answer, I think, it seems to me, would be that you recognize that who a pastor is by nature of his call is that he is a teacher.

Historically speaking, in the Lutheran church we consider the office of the public ministry the preadict umpt (ph) that is, the preaching office. But that ministry is defined in terms of teaching the Gospel, the administration of the sacraments.

So, if you recognize that you're always teaching as a pastor, that's really the first step, I think, in answering your question.

In other words, it's not just what you do in terms of your instructional course, but also the other opportunities that you have in terms of adult Bible class, for example, your private visits in

people's homes, other opportunities always looking for a chance to teach the essential articles of the faith or to reflect upon them as the case may be, as the circumstances call for it.

So how do you find an opportune time for instruction? Well, perhaps you could look at the time of your service, a Sunday morning divine service. Is there an opportunity to have a course of instruction for adults on Sunday mornings?

If you're engaged in an ongoing Bible study for all the adults after the service, maybe, without expecting too much from people, you could ask the inquirers, the prospective members, to come before the service for such instruction or perhaps to stay after the Bible class. Or maybe some members of the congregation would prepare a lunch so that those people could sit down together over lunch on Sunday noon and during that time carry on instruction.

The other thing is you might look for opportunities individually. Sometimes the reality is, especially when people are working third shifts or something of the sort, that it's not possible really to expect them to come at the optimum time for instruction, probably in an evening. And so you have to find other opportunities to teach those people.

And so I think a pastor, because he recognizes he's always teaching, and because we're engaged in outreach with the Gospel in the community, he would have this kind of this core instruction going on regularly and routinely. I would say, personally, at least two thorough courses of instruction per year.

And then, if people cannot come at that time, then the pastor's going to have to arrange time to meet with them individually, carry on a personalized instruction for them as a supplemental way to the main course of instruction.

Above all, I think you want to be clear on what it is you're teaching them. And there again, as Dr. Warneck mentioned, the practices currently in our church are kind of all over the map.

But recognizing what's really important, as he says, going back to the basics is really what we want to be about.

And, historically speaking, there have been three texts, if you will, that help people to prepare for the Christian life. Chiefly, of course, the Bible. And our instruction's always going to be based upon the word of God and a thorough indoctrination of what the word of God teaches on all the points of Christian doctrine.

Then the text of the catechism. And, here again, I would agree with Dr. Warneck that no improvement really could be made on this wonderful summary of the Christian faith and all of its magnificence as it's given to us there through the pen of Dr. Luther. The Small Catechism also being, as he called it, a layman's Bible,

namely, the sum total of what every Christian needs to know in order to be saved, in order to live as a Christian in this world.

And then a third text would be the hymnal. The songs, the hymns, the prayers of the church that kind of inform us who we are as a Christian people, as a corporate entity, the church of Christ in this place, a way by which we as Lutheran Christians also confess the faith to one another and to all the world, a way through which these prayers and hymns that we ourselves can grow in our faith, express our faith, pray our prayers to our Lord and God and find our comfort and consolation in times of distress, that sustains us for a whole lifetime.

I can remember some years ago, in fact, a long time ago when I was a student in the seminary, I was visiting and elderly lady in the nursing home. And she was unable anymore to really get out of bed or to do much of anything other than to speak and to pray, to receive the ministry of those who came to speak with her regarding the word of God, the faith and to pray. This is what she did.

The prayer that she spoke to me, the one that gave her the most consolation is something that she learned when she was a tiny little girl. (German language)

Now, I realize of course, David, very few of your people know the German language. But the point is in her language that she was raised in, she had learned the basics of the faith by learning hymns. Someone took the time to instruct her in these.

These words, poetic words of prayer and consolation sustained her all through life. And although, when she was a little girl, the words of that prayer, that hymn, "Jesus Christ, Thy blood and righteousness, my beauty are my glorious stress" really didn't pertain precisely to that moment in her life, on her death bed, which she was fast approaching, it gave her great consolation to know that on that great day when she stands before the thrown of God, as that hymn confesses, we stand clothed in the blood and righteousness of Jesus who is our righteousness.

So this kind of ongoing, lifelong approach to teaching and instruction of faith, which we historically call catechesis is a way by which Christians are nurtured in the faith that is first given them in their baptism and then sustained by God's word and sacrament all their life.

So the suggestion that Dr. Warneck and I would have is that all of you would focus your instruction upon the Bible, the catechism -- this synodical edition of the Luther's Small Catechism is a wonderful tool for instruction.

Remember that the first part of the book really is what we call the end core idian (ph) or the handbook of the faith. These

first 30-some pages really belong to the essence of the catechism. The rest of it is an exposition or an explanation of the

catechism with those marvelous questions Dr. Warneck already reminded you of, some of which are vital to really understanding and confessing the faith which was given to us when we were baptized -- the faith in which we stand, a faith which we want to confess and witness to in our daily lives. That's a great tool.

You know, these days we really don't have much of an opportunity to memorize anything because we're constantly deluged with all kinds of information. And you've heard the term "information overload," I think.

It is in this careful instruction in the foundational texts, the Bible and the catechism, that we are grounded and rooted in something that is sure and is substantial and that really lasts.

So helping your people to have that kind of foundation, that kind of grounding in the faith in God's word and its meaning, as we find in the catechism, is very, very helpful.

Not all of your people, especially your adults, are going to find it easy to memorize. Certainly, we can't expect the same thing of all of our people when it comes to memorization. A little child, for example, can learn far more far faster with a greater retention rate than people as they get to be older. That's a fact. It's a biological fact.

But the reality is that there are certain cardinal texts -- the texts of the Ten Commandments, the text of the Apostle's Creed, the text of the Lord's Prayer -- that really lies at the root of what we're about as a Christian people and as a confessing Lutheran church.

You know, the Bible says "Thy word have I hid in my heart." Sometimes I think it's helpful to remind people that, when we memorize texts, we're not just drilling words into our brain. But we're hiding them our heart where they take root and they give shape to our life as they also give shape to our public confession of faith.

Now, Dr. Luther, in his preface to the catechism suggests that there are three stages to the process of instruction or catechesis; first, that we learn the primary text, that is, God's word itself.

And you'll notice about the small catechism. Each and every chief part of the Christian faith is rooted and grounded in the word of God. There's always a Bible text in the midst of it.

Then, after we've learned that word, that primary text, we move on to learn its meaning. The famous Lutheran question "What does this mean?" is not what does this mean to you, but rather "what is that" literally in the German language, namely, what is implied in these words of God? How are they unpacked and

applied? We learn that, too, as well, by heart. Not all of your

adults will master that part of the catechism. But certainly its content can be well-explained in their instruction. So that's the second stage, learning the meaning.

Finally, Dr. Luther suggests that we take up a larger catechism, that we learn its application.

And there a useful tool for you as an instructor in the Christian faith would be have a copy of Luther's large catechism. It could be really a practical teacher's guide, if you will, to the instruction of the faith.

So these three stages -- the primary text, the Bible; the secondary text, the meaning; and the third level, namely, the application -- really correspond with a classical understanding of education, that ancient method by which people first learned the grammar of any subject, then it's logic, its inner meaning, and then, finally, it's application in terms of rhetoric, that is, the public speaking or doing of any field of study.

So properly understood, that classical model of education is not just a mastery of a body of information as we do in our current situation, a learning of field of technology or applied science or perhaps a particular skill in terms of manufacturing or some particular job skill.

But rather, historically, this approach to education was to learn how to learn. I think that's what you want to do for your people when it comes to the faith, not just teaching them your own understanding of what the faith is but teaching them to learn and to grow and to develop all their life on the basis of God's word, the teachings of the catechism, our confession of the faith determines really how we live and we profess that faith and witness to it in our daily lives.

So there's no one answer to your question. We have to find various ways to approach people where they live, given the confines of their schedules.

But have something to give them, namely, God's own word, the teachings of the faith, the doctrines which sustain us and which give shape to our lives so that we might profess the faith as well.

You can use creative means of application using the technology of the time. Perhaps it would be possible, for example, for you to record on an mp3 file or some other device of recording the words of the Small Catechism. You could make a copy and give it to these people so that the particular media that they have, they could listen to it perhaps on their commute to work or with their earphones, their headphones that they use perhaps on the job. These are ways of reinforcing the faith which God gives us in his

word. So use the abilities that you have, the technology

available to you, and apply it to the particular needs of the people that you serve. Being faithful to what you've been given. It's a great opportunity to shape people, to instruct them in the faith that's given to us.



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>> NICK: You know, some of the folks out here in Los Angeles have never heard of confirmation. What can you tell me about the importance of it? Is it just for kids, or should adults be confirmed too?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Great question, Nick. You know, the reality is that confirmation is a church

rite, as Dr. Warneck has already informed you. It's really not prescribed by God in His word. And so there's a certain element of freedom when it comes to how it is that church practices this.

We would plead, both of us, that there be uniformity of kind of a conformity to standard practice throughout our synod.

That's important to pay attention to what other churches in your area are doing regarding the confirmation of adults.

Above all, we want to remind ourselves what really is its nature? Because that really stresses its importance.

And, as Dr. Warneck has already remarked, the importance of confirmation is really its function. It's not in and of itself that there's a particular blessing bestowed other than the blessing that might be given to any individual at any given time in their life and, indeed, the blessing which is bestowed at the end of our services of public worship.

So we ask the question then what is the function of this rite of confirmation?

It might be useful to reflect just reflect just a minute on ritual in general. A lot of people are unfamiliar with the function of ritual. In fact, it's customary, I think, for most people, when they hear the word "ritual" to attribute the adjective "dead" to that word. "Dead ritual." In other words, kind of meaningless activities that really have no application but they're just something that you simply go through the motions.

People who take seriously questions of sociology of how people interact find that it's really not that case at all.

We have certain elements of domestic rituals, for example, patriotic rituals. When the national anthem is played, the people stand in order to show respect for our country. They join together in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. These approaches, these external rituals, are part a of what defines us as citizens in the country we live in.

They tend to bind people together. They tend to mark important moments in the life of any people.

So there would be good and laudable reasons then to introduce or to maintain the practice of confirmation amongst adults as well as children.

In the case of the children, it indicates a moment in their life when they're admitted to the Lord's table after a period of instruction in their baptismal faith.

Now, in the case of adults, when they come as nonbelievers and by the grace of God working through His word by the power of His spirit are brought to the faith, they're then baptized.

That very baptism, which normally takes place in the presence of the congregation would take the place of confirmation. It would indeed be in itself, since they're now adults fully instructed in all the articles of Christian faith and now prepared to examine themselves in preparation to receive the Lord's Supper, are now admitted to the Lord's table by that baptism into the faith.

In the case of those who have been previously

baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in a church or communion which confesses the Holy Trinity, we would not rebaptize them, of course, but we may certainly in good order confirm them publicly.

And, there again, you have to be sensitive to the needs of the individuals that are involved. If they're particularly shy, it might be possible to receive them into membership in a smaller kind of environment say with the elders or church council.

But ordinarily it might be a very good practice to receive them as a group after their period of instruction into full membership by the rite of adult confirmation, remembering, of course, it's not the rite that bestows any particular blessing. But it is an opportunity to publicly confess the faith which was given to them when they were baptized which they've been instructed in now, according to the chief parts of Christian doctrine, which they themselves then joyfully confess before the assembled congregation. And then we publicly corporately welcome them into our fellowship. It becomes a very wonderful avenue then of building and maintaining this Christian unity in the congregation.

So the answer to your question directly would be that depends upon the circumstances of the individuals, giving good counsel and emphasis toward the encouragement of adult confirmation while we wouldn't strictly insist that it must be in every case be a part of their own life in your congregation.



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>> JOSH: Why are the called pastors of the church most frequently charged with the responsibility to administer the Lord's Supper? Being in Delto, I know that there are exceptions to this in the Missouri synod, but I have the impression that such exceptions are rare.

Would you be willing to discuss boning the doctrine and practice of the administration of the Lord's Supper?

>> DR. WARNECK: Josh, as you observe, there are different practices in regard to our subject, the administration of the Lord's Supper.

But in most of our congregations, the understanding is very clear on this point: The responsibility and the duty for administering the Lord's Supper in this instance is the prerogative of the pastor of the congregation, the ordained master by virtue of his call to that public ministry. That is our common understanding.

And then we go from there. And, when we discuss assisting the pastor in that administration, then doors open to a diversity of practice. And perhaps we should reflect on that as well.

Our Lutheran Confessions are the norm here. And Augsburg Confession XIV states very concisely that the public preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments is the calling of the Christian pastor, the ordained pastor.

That concise statement is underscored and supported by Augsburg Confession XXVIII where the confessors assigned the power of the keys or the "Power of Bishops," as they put it. The command to preach the Gospel and administer the sacraments is assigned to the called pastor of the congregation, the pastoral office.

Now we have a situation where many are involved in the assistance to the pastor in that ministry. Lutheran worship has initiated the distinction between presiding ministers and assisting ministers, the presiding minister being the pastor, as we have referenced him in the confessional statements, to which we might add Apology, article 24, paragraph 80.

In the area of assisting ministers, there is a lack of clarity accompanying the diversity for the reason that assistance in the administration of the sacrament is an adiaphoron. It is a function that is neither commanded nor forbidden, and there is some latitude in the arrangements that congregations want to make

here.But always we want to understand that in the area of

adiaphora the church makes its decisions and determines its practice always in reference to the clear teachings of the scriptures. And practice always honors those clear teachings and doctrines of God's word.

Now a question arises in the area of assisting in the distribution of the Lord's Supper, particularly. And the question is somewhat paramount, if not acute, in larger congregations where we have large numbers of persons coming to the Lord's Supper in a given service. And we also have multiple communion services in those settings.

There the issue of assistance is even more poignant, if you will. And we need to say a word about that.

The Formula of Concord, Article 7, is perhaps our strongest source providing principles which I believe ought to govern our decisions in this area of assisting in distribution of the Lord's Supper.

There we discover that Kemnitz -- he was the principal author of Article 7 -- is speaking about the administration of the Lord's Supper as a holistic action.

He addresses this matter in paragraph 85 of Article 7 when he speaks about the consecration, the distribution, and the reception of the Lord's Supper as one entire action.

We have already said that the responsibility and duty for this holistic action resides with the called pastor of the church.

Now, if we bring others to the scene to assist the called pastor in exercising the holistic action, it would seem at least logical that we would not enlist persons to assist who would never be eligible by training and qualifications to be a part of the public pastoral ministry at all.

I am leading around to the sensitive issue of the practice of engaging women as assistants at the Lord's table in the distribution of the sacrament to the people.

Our concern here is -- well, it does get down somewhat to a gender issue. If women, as our church comprehends -- I Timothy chapter 2 and the passages I Corinthians 11 and chapter 14 -- are not candidates to be pastors in the church, the question -- the practical question here is: Should we bring them in to a ministry and part of the action, the single action which is the prerogative of the called pastor of the church any more than we would ask women to preach sermons publicly and exercise that part of the public ministry?

Undoubtedly, some of my own subjective evaluation, assessments, and judgments are moving into the discussion here. And, Josh, I want to make that clear. I certainly don't want to

impose the personal preferences of one theologian and one practicing pastor on you or anyone else.

Except I would urge you to give attention to these sensitivities. I think it is supported by the studies in this area from our church body.

The CTCR, for instance, has said that, to avoid confusion regarding the office of the public ministry in this matter of distributing the Lord's Supper and to avoid giving offense to the church, the distribution of the elements and the celebration of Holy Communion should be limited to lay men, that is, the gender male lay Christians, they mean to say.

And this opinion of the CTCR in 1989, dependent upon earlier statements in 1985 and going back as far as 1983, is the opinion of the most recent task force committee appointed by the president of the synod following our recent convention in 2004.

So the counsel of our theologians and our president's task force committee points us in the direction of being sensitive on this issue and suggesting that those who assist in the Lord's Supper, this action of the public office of the ministry, be reserved for male Christians.

Now, that certainly is an opinion. But the issue needs to be addressed. And, wherever you are serving and others are serving, we should be thinking through this issue.

And here I have provided just a few guidelines and some things to think about and possibly some subjects to investigate further.

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>> NICK: Question 24, take 2. I was sitting in on a Sunday school lesson with the

middle school adolescents last week. The students asked some questions about the bread and the wine and the Lord's Supper. Tough questions like "When does it become body and blood" and "What does the pastor do with everything that's left over, if the bread and the wine is the body and blood"? Leave it to teenagers.

The teacher struggled to answer these questions, and I attempted to help as best I could. May I ask you to speak about these questions and any others you know of that are common among congregation members.

What are several issues surrounding the elements -- bread and wine and body and blood in the sacrament?

>> DR. WARNECK: Nick, you raise a number of questions that are frequently on the minds of Lutheran Christians beginning with the question about when the elements, the bread and the wine, at the altar become the Lord's body and the Lord's blood. Is there that kind of a transition, a change? That's one question.

And then you seem to be asking about how the pastor may properly prepare and use the elements and what the proper care of those elements must be.

Let's address the initial question first. When is the sacrament the Lord's body and blood? Our Lutheran confessors and teachers -- Martin Luther succeeded by those who framed the Lutheran Confessions -- really liked to deal with that matter in a different way than asking the question "when." Principally, for the reason that Roman Catholic theology and practice perhaps had been overarticulate in addressing that issue which led to the notion of transubstantiation.

Their notion is that, when the priest speaks the words of consecration at the altar, there's a change occurs in the bread and the wine. At least this is traditional Roman Catholic theology. That the bread and the wine become something that they were not before, namely, the body and blood of the Lord.

Our Lutheran fathers really wanted to move away

from that scholastic kind of explanation. They leave it this way: The sacrament is the body and blood of the Lord according to its instituted use when our Lord took bread and wine and spoke those words in the company of his disciples. "Take, eat. This is my body. Take, drink. This is my blood." So that the best way to view this matter is to see the entire sacramental action from the consecration to the receiving of the same, of the Lord's body and blood, rather than fixating on a particular moment when something becomes something else and all of those kind of rational explorations.

We just don't explore in this area. We follow Christ and His word. And we attempt to administer the sacrament in the company of God's people today in the manner that we understand He did so with His initial disciples.

And, doing that, we comprehend the people receive the Lord's body and blood as those elements are embraced by Christ in His word in the speaking of those words by the pastor at the altar, viewing the whole matter as a whole action without penetrating with our explorations and investigations here and there and the other thing.

So that's been the Lutheran way of approaching that question. May not be satisfying all together to our minds and our inquisitive nature. But perhaps we do well to follow our Lutheran fathers and leave it there. That it's a holistic action from consecration to the receiving by the people, Christ's word embracing those elements, and the people receiving what He says they receive, namely, His body and blood given for and shed for the remission of their sins.

Now, a few comments in addition, Nick, on the elements themselves and how the pastor might engage his people to properly respect these elements.

The bread, let's focus there first. Our understanding is that these elements were elements used in the Passover meal, the background against which Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper.

Our understanding is that the bread was unleavened bread. So we attempt to use the unleavened bread made of the wheat flour in our communion services.

The privilege, however, is there to use bread but of a different flour. Because there's no historical documentation that -- exactly what was the composition of the bread that was used there at the first Lord's Supper and the like. So there's some latitude here.

And this is important because there are persons who have sensitivity to the glutin in the wheat flour, allergies and the like.

We had an instance recorded recently -- reported in the St. Louis Dispatch of an 8-year-old girl in New Jersey who could

not come to mass in the Roman Catholic parish because she had a digestive order -- disorder which would not permit her to partake of the wafer, the communion wafer which had a wheat flour base.

And, apparently, this is important in Roman Catholic administration of the mass that the wafer be of wheat flour. The young lady has a sensitivity to this. And so she was not permitted to come to mass.

Our Lutheran fathers have been much more flexible on this. And permit -- for instance, we have a passage from Walther that says the composition of the bread could be a rice or barley base as well as a wheat flour base. So let's not get hung up on this. The term is bread. And, if it's bread, this would seem to suffice.

A question arises relative to the wine and the alcohol content of the wine. First let's understand that the Passover beverage, which undoubtedly was used by Jesus and his disciples in the last supper, was wine. And that's what should be used.

There are other products out on the market. There are pale wines which have an effervescent quality. They look like wine, but they are not wine. We discourage use of those kinds of beverages in the sacrament. The beverage should be wine, real wine.

The alcohol content may be minimal, but still it should be wine. So you want to be a little observant in what's purchased and brought to your church for use in the sacrament.

Sensitivities to the alcohol content are increasing, I think. At least our awareness of these sensitivities is increasing. Some persons for reasons of medications that they are taking. Others who may be recovering alcoholics and are very sensitive to imbibing even the smallest amount of alcohol.

Now, we can say as pastors, "Well, a very small amount of wine, a sip of wine that the communicant receives in the sacrament would never harm anyone." But the perceptions of our people have to be respected here. And, if you have a person who is very sensitive to alcohol in every respect, probably it's well to accommodate that person in a little different way.

How do we do this? Communing that individual with the host only really isn't advisable. Mixing a small amount of wine with water, diluting the wine, that is a possibility. Engaging intinction, that is, taking a small portion of the wafer and dipping it in the chalice and then giving that to the person is one practice. Substituting grape juice for these folks really isn't a salutary practice inasmuch as we're not using wine now. We're moving away from the instituted use. That may not be so well.

Here was a suggestion I understand that came from Dr. Knipl, professor here at Concordia Seminary, who was an

expert specialist in ministry to persons with a problem with alcohol. And my understanding is that his suggestion is that a

pastor might take a number of grapes on a Saturday night. Squeeze them, the juice and the pulp from them. And strain that through a clean cloth and place the residue in the refrigerator overnight. Sufficient fermentation will occur for the liquid to be wine but not in the amount of alcohol that would be harmful to any person. Probably we should really check this out more thoroughly. But it is a way of attempting to respect this sensitivity to the alcohol content in the wine.

Whatever method adopted here, the preparation for the alcohol-sensitive person should be brought to the altar with the supply of wine for the larger congregation and properly consecrated by speaking the Words of Institution.

We might also add in the course of the communion distribution, should the supplies of either the bread, the host, or the wine run thin and other supplies are brought to the altar, the pastor speaks the Words of Institution. He pauses in the distribution for that gesture so that there's assurance and certainty of the communing congregation that they are receiving from the Words of Institution embracing the bread and wine themselves.

So I certainly haven't addressed, probably, all of your concerns. But we have simply shared a few notes on a couple of issues surrounding the elements, particularly in the administration of the sacrament.



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>> JOSH: I've got another question that's probably both doctrinal and pragmatic.

What should a pastor keep in mind about the consecration and distribution of the Lord's Supper?

And, while it's on my mind, I wonder if you would touch upon one of the several questions that Nick asked. What is the proper care of the elements following worship?

That reminds me of yet one more question. Can the elements be taken by an elder to a shut-in without reconsecration?

>> DR. WARNECK: Joshua, your questions are right on the mark and represent the kind of questions that our people have as they observe their pastor going about his work in the chancel in the consecration and distribution of the Lord's Supper.

We want to underscore at the outset that our comprehension of this sacred action rests entirely upon the word and the command and the institution of Christ our Lord. So the words the laint term werba (ph) are really critical here in the consecration and thereafter the distribution.

The elements are embraced by Christ and His word. And at that point the communicants also receiving the same through the distribution, they receive the Lord's body and blood, as Luther says, in, with, and under these elements of bread and wine.

Now, a pastor, therefore, will approach this ministry not with fear and trembling but certainly with certain respect and, certainly, much awareness.

And, because the words are important, he will want to speak those words loudly and clearly. In fact, you will find that rubric in the Formula of Concord, article 7.

Versus simply hovering over the elements at the altar and mumbling the words, the pastor may advisedly -- well, if he has a free-standing altar in the church, this is very easy. He can officiate with the consecration in the presence of the people and speak clearly and forthrightly.

If the altar, as in many of our older churches, is attached to the wall, he can stand to the side slightly as he reads those words of institution and makes the sign of the cross over the host and then over the cup.

So that the people are somewhat in on the action, they observe what the pastor's doing here, how he is using our

Lord's words, which is crucial and paramount here, and how these elements which they are going to partake orally and physically at the altar in just a few moments are the bearers of the eternal things that Christ places here, His body and his blood for the remission of their sins.

So in our Lutheran practice we're very open about this and somewhat inclusive in terms of how the people see and what they hear.

Our Lord, through His called servant, the pastor, the Lord's words, the Lord's institution, the Lord's command embracing these things for this sacred purpose.

Now, you may have a question about the elements following the Lord's Supper, the distribution and partaking. What of those elements? What of the bread and wine?

And your question really is: Is there some abiding significance attached to the bread and the wine following the communion service? You could also raise that question in the eventuality that a particle of the wafer might drop to the floor or a drop of the -- from the chalice might drop also to the chancel floor.

Our understanding here is this: That, when those elements are outside the periphery, if I may put it, of the Lord's command and institution which the pastor is administrating here, they are just what they are -- bread and wine. And there is no longer any abiding sacred significance to them, even though we want to handle them properly just because they were used in this sacred purpose.

But, as if some aura was attached to the elements beyond the communion service, that we do not believe.

So what does the pastor do, together with his altar guild? The remaining host that was unused can be placed back into the sacristy for a later celebration of the sacrament. Also the wine left in the flagon or the pitcher can be placed and reserved for a further later use in the celebration of the sacrament.

The wine remaining in the chancel is absorbed in various ways. It has been the practice that the pastor himself would simply imbibe the remainder in the chancel. That is done, and it's a perfectly correct way to dispose of the elements.

Or the remains in the chalice may be poured out on the ground. Should not be poured down through the plumbing system of the building. Some churches, advisedly in sacristies, have a separate drain that goes directly down to the ground beneath the foundation of the building. And I believe the title for that little receptible is the piscina, if I'm not mistaken. That would be all right. But many churches do not have that accessory.

So you might instruct your people to take the remains of wine and the chalice outside and pour them gently on the ground

and dispose of the remaining elements in that fashion. Backing up just a little bit, we should make a

comment about the distribution as the people come forward to receive the Lord's Supper.

Historically, until recent times, the pastor took the host and placed it on the tongue of the recipient, of the communicant. This was a good practice for this reason: It left intact the notion that the body of Christ is His gift to the communicant very personally and directly.

An alternate manner of distribution and receiving has developed. And the practice is rather widespread where the pastor takes the host and places it in the hand of the communicant. And then the communicant then takes the host and places it in his or her mouth and receives in that manner.

That mode somewhat breaks down a bit the notion that the Lord's Supper is Christ's gift and pure gift to us. And it kind of interjects something, some action from the communicant in the whole matter, which, again, somewhat distracts from the notion of Christ's body and blood as gift.

These are matters, though, that you'll want to discuss with your people and arrive at your practice and give them an appropriate guidance.

Let's move on to another question that you had, Joshua, about taking the consecrated elements from the altar in the church to home-bound persons.

Let's say an elder in the congregation is assigned to take those consecrated elements on Sunday afternoon to a home-bound person in a rest home somewhere in the community later on in the afternoon.

There is a governing principle in -- that should norm this practice. And maybe alter it somewhat. And principle holds the distribution should never be separated from the consecration. And that principle arises right out of Formula of Concord 7 around paragraph 75 to 80, 83. And that would be your reference on this.

Remember we're operating with principles undergirding practice. So it would seem that the Formula of Concord is encouraging us to go to home-bound persons when we bring private communion to hold a little mini service with those folks during which the pastor consecrates and in the same moment distributes and keeps consecration and distribution together. That would be the most -- the practice most consistent with our Lutheran principle.

We're aware that there's a lot of diversity in this area. I want to suggest that, when we really look at our situation in our churches, most pastors in most congregations can do this ministry themselves. And the home-bound persons like to have the pastor

visit. They really do. Not that they don't welcome elders and other persons. But for the Lord's Supper our experience has been that they want the pastor to minister to them as he does for the corporate congregation in the larger fellowship.

And, if a pastor is organized, I want to suggest that he can probably commune as many as 30 shut-ins in the course of a month, if he's well-organized and has them scheduled. It takes some effort. But it's -- it's worthwhile.

Now, a closing word about that little service that we have for the home-bound persons. The pastor can bring some accessories. Some pastors have a small stole that they bring with them and place around their shoulder, the symbol of the office of the pastor. And then we can set up the altar, nice white linen or white napkin, place the small communion glass or chalice together with the host. Conduct a little service from the invocation to the confession of sins, speaking the Apostle's Creed, then the words of institution, the Lord's Prayer, and the distribution and a closing prayer and benediction.

The exact order here we have in other printed materials that we could suggest, but it goes something like that. Then the communicant has the experience of the communion service and receives the body and blood of the Lord within that context and that setting.

Joshua, there is one detail that we would address relative to the distribution of communion. And that is the mode, whether it be the chalice or the individual glasses. The chalice, the common cup, symbolizes our oneness and unity as God's people coming for the blessings of the sacrament. It emphasizes that horizontal relationship with each other receiving the one blessing from Christ as He gives us His precious blood.

The individual glasses, the origin of that custom I do not know. But it's very widespread practice in our churches. There's no rule or law here. But we want to appreciate the common cup, as we said before. But, without legislating the practice, say about the individual glasses, some congregations are more comfortable with that mode of distribution.

Where we have opportunity to use both in the same communion service, that has resolved this matter somewhat at least for some congregations where the officient moves with the glasses, the individual glasses. And those communicants at the table who wish to partake that way do so. And another officient follows with the chalice and communes those who prefer to receive by that mode.

Perhaps this is something of a compromise. It seems to satisfy numerous concerns in certain settings and certain congregations. And, where it is practiced where both modes are

engaged, the comfort level of people seems to be met. And that might be a suggestion.

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*** >> DAVID: Who may receive the Lord's Supper?

And how do we prepare them to do so? How old must they be? What must they understand? What about the practice of first communion occurring before confirmation?

>> DR. WARNECK: David, it's a pointed question, who may receive the Lord's Supper. And a direct answer to your question must be those who are baptized Christians who properly can examine themselves in accord with the apostle's exhortation. These persons may approach the Lord's table.

Baptism assumes their Christian faith in the triune God. And examination suggests three things;

First, that the communicant repents of his or her sins and seeks forgiveness assured in the sacrament;

Secondly, the communicant, partaking of our Lord Jesus Christ as He gives Himself to us here, believes in the Lord Jesus and trusts in Him as their Savior;

Thirdly, it would seem that the communicant would discern in the sacrament what Christ here gives us, namely, His body and His blood for us to eat and to drink under the elements of bread and wine and, in so doing, remember His suffering and death.

And I guess there's a fourth point that comes into play here, how the communicant takes these blessings and amends or intends to amend his or her sinful ways.

These four points -- I said three, but it actually

amounts to four, as I've set them out here -- comprise the essentials of examining oneself before coming to the Lord's table.

Persons then who come to communion, baptized Christians examining themselves, it would seem logical that they should be capable of administering that self-examination.

At what age may Christians come to the Lord's table? At the age when they are able to do just what the apostle says and just what we've been talking about. A child does not have to wait until confirmation instruction at ages 13, 14. In some congregations children are granted the privilege of first communion around age 7 or 8. They receive a lot of support and a lot of help from their parents. It's well that families are able to help a young child to do what Paul says, to examine themselves and properly prepare to come to the Lord's Supper. That support base really should be there when we practice early first communion.

But that can be a salutary practice, if it's done properly and responsibly. And a pastor wants to be sure that the families where children are coming to the Lord's table are doing so in a proper way.

You might be asking the question about infant communion, something which we should address. This practice is somewhat popularized in some churches in the land.

I want to refer you to a debate that was held by two ELCA pastors. And it is written up in -- an issue of "Word & World." We can make the reference available to you later in notes. But the title of the article is "Infant Communion: A matter of concern, a matter of Christian unity."

And the two ELCA pastors take a pro and a con position on this issue. H. Frederick Reisz argues for the practice of infant communion when he asserts that the baptized into Christ Jesus are Christ's body, meaning whatever age. And nowhere is the corporate unity of the church expressed more definitely than in the common sharing of the Eucharist.

So this proponent of infant communion is suggesting that we should not truncate the body of Christ at that very point where Christ is supporting the unity of his body, the members of his body, namely, in the Eucharist. Baptized into Christ, give them the body and blood of the Lord. That's his argument for communing infant children.

Arguing against the practice, Walter Pilgrim asserts that the New Testament really doesn't answer the question conclusively, no conclusive evidence for infant communion in the New Testament. We don't read of any. Households were baptized, we read. But there's no indication of an immediate Eucharistic practice of following -- or celebration following.

So it seems to Pastor Pilgrim that, when the Lord

says, "Do this in remembrance of me," he also asserts that those who commune should be taught and they should comprehend the remembrance of Jesus, which would seem to leave the infants and their limited cognitive abilities because of their age out of the picture.

And, furthermore, Paul's injunction toward self-examination would require a kind of reflection, which might, obviously, exclude infants.

The notion that some kind of infant response here is sufficient seems, in the view of Pilgrim, to be akin to Irenaeus' "medicine of immortality," an elixir that dispenses divine grace kind of indiscriminately, faith or no. So these are the arguments for and against the practice of infant communion.

We want to adjust a footnote to this from our own literature, from our Missouri synod theologians. Walther discouraged the practice. And he makes reference to Luther's opinion which he rendered about the Bohemians in his day who were practicing infant communion.

Furthermore, he says, "Those who cannot examine themselves and, therefore, are not to be admitted to the Lord's table include not only infants but also those asleep or unconscious, those in the throes of death who are already deprived of the use of their senses, deranged people, and the like."

So the emphasis in Walther and Luther on this point is that communicants should by all means be able to respond as the apostle exhorts, that communicants should examine themselves and then partake of the Lord's body and blood in the sacrament.

Our conversation must necessarily turn to the matter of open communion, which is a widespread practice in other churches in contrast to our own practice in the Lutheran church Missouri synod of close or closed communion.

When St. Paul teaches that those who commune at the Lord's table proclaim together Christ, His suffering and death and by implication also His very real and true presence of His body and blood in the sacrament, it would seem that those who share in this blessing should have the same confession.

If we open the communion table to persons of disparate confessions, it seems that there's a fragmentation of the body at this point of confession that ought to be avoided. Certainly not accommodated, much less advocated. So it is our practice to ask of all who commune at our tables to share in this very confession.

And where we find differences particularly on views of the sacrament itself and what the communicant receives here, differences with the Reformed, many of the Protestants, probably it is well, when these persons present themselves as guests at our

tables, to suggest to them that we welcome them to our worship services but we would like to have the opportunity to counsel with them, meet with them, discuss with them, teach and instruct them about things that surely ought to be confessed and believed when we share in this very close life together receiving from Christ His gifts of His body and blood for the remission of sins. This in general parameters is our practice in our churches. It's the practice of close communion.

Some people take umbrance to this practice, and they perceive a kind of exclusion going on here. I'd like to suggest that the inverse is actually what happens here. To invite people to the Lord's table in a manner that they are aware of what we confess here and they themselves have been instructed how to examine themselves before receiving of these blessings is actually a kind of inclusion.

And all we ask in our Missouri synod churches is for the opportunity to teach persons about these things and engage them in them and then welcome them at the Lord's table with the rest of the congregation who, by the way, have all been prepared by that same kind of orientation and teaching. So that's very inclusive, if you will.

Now, how we handle these matters in today's churches where we have multitudes of visitors, we can do this very tactfully. We can suggest that the congregation coming to communion has a common understanding about the Lord's Supper and about how they should come. And we would just like the opportunity to familiarize the visitors with these practices and this preparation.

And until that time maybe it would be well if the visitors -- well, if you want to have a practice where they can come to the Lord's altar and receive a blessing, that would be one way. Or not come and wait for an opportunity when the pastor can meet with them and properly instruct them. There will be a lot of discussion about this subject probably in your conversations later.

Finally, a word about some specific things we might do to assist a congregation to remain somewhat sharp and clear about how the individual Christian practices his or her Holy Communion. Unfortunately, this is never brought up after a child, for instance, is confirmed and takes their first communion. It seldom is addressed in the congregation. And maybe we need to take the approach that we not only instruct our people once about communion but instruct and reinstruct and reinstruct and remind as time goes on.

Our congregations have to have patience to permit a brief time in the worship services for the pastor to bring these reminders and bring this reinstruction in various ways. He can

make a few comments before the preface beginning of the communion liturgy. He can refer to Luther's 20 questions and answers drawn up for those who propose to go to communion. He can make references to some of the penitential psalms in the little confessional meditation with the congregation.

There are vignettes in the Gospels he can refer to where Jesus ministered specifically to professed sinners. Those passages are there.

Could be a subject for updating our people a bit on their communion practice and so that we're just not all following the herd instinct and going up to the table at a certain point in the service because everybody else is doing it.

Pastors need to take initiatives to make this meaningful for their people on an ongoing basis. If we do these things, our congregations are going to be stronger and they're going to thank their pastors for continuing to help them do what the apostle urges, examine themselves in order that they might take a profitable Holy Communion.



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>> NICK: I find that most visitors to our services come from churches that practice open communion. Is it really that important that we commune only Lutherans at our altar? And by this, do we mean only Missouri synod Lutherans?

How do we handle this as pastors? What about when we see someone at the communion rail whom we've never met? What about family members of communicant members who approach the table without having first spoken with either an elder or a pastor at the church?

I suppose I'm concerned that I know how to carry out proper administration of our Lord's Supper while at the same time communicating our doctrine in an understandable and loving manner.

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: You know, Nick, I'm really happy that you phrased the question exactly as you did, that is, about proper administration and doing so in a loving manner.

Because that exactly is what a pastor is called to do. In fact, St. Paul writes to the church in Corinth regarding the office of the ministry, "This is how one should regard us as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God." That's in the fourth chapter of the first letter, verse 1. Servants of Christ. Stewards of the mysteries of God.

In other words, the work that pastors do in their

congregations is really to serve the Lord Jesus Christ who loved his church and laid His life down for Her. He is interested as Her heavenly husband in giving gifts to Her, and He wants them to be given just as He has planned.

And it's important then that pastors not interject themselves in between that process, that they are intervening and somehow maybe giving the impression that it's all their own decision or it's something that they decided to do for people.

One of the early church fathers said, "Remember, that the church already has a husband. It's not right to court the bride." The pastor, rather, is the "best man" for this heavenly husband. He serves the Lord Christ.

So we take our orders, if you will, from the Lord Jesus. And we are to regard ourselves as stewards of God's mysteries. That is, as caretakers, those who carefully administer the gifts which he has for His church.

And, of course, the Lord's Supper, the sacrament of the altar, is chief among those mysteries, where the Lord Jesus feeds us with His body and blood under earthly bread and wine. So to whom we administer that is an important matter.

Now, the question you raised relates to who is admitted to the Lord's table in our circles. And while it's true that indeed there is only one holy Christian church yet that church is invisible to human eyes, we can only go you and I by what we hear confessed regarding the faith. So the church's external fellowship or visible fellowship is organized not around faith in the heart but rather upon the confession of the mouth.

So then we find that this practice is important, the practice of communing only those who have a common confession of that faith.

So here we ask a very good Lutheran question: Where is this written? Where do we find this practice of closed communion expressed in holy scripture.

We have to look, first of all, at what's happening in the Lord's Supper. And we'd find that in the 10th chapter of I Corinthians in verse 17 where we read -- verse 16, "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body for we all partake of one bread."

In other words, Nick, there is a unity that is publicly confessed among those who partake of the same altar from that same altar. Because they share in this one bread, which is the body of Christ, they are expressing their unity and union in a common confession.

Now, obviously, it would not be right for someone who

disagrees rather in fundamental articles of the Christian faith with another Christian to participate in the same communion.

For example, a Roman Catholic who comes to our altar, in their church they profess that the sacrament is an unbloody sacrifice, as they call it, for the sins of the living and the dead. In other words, Jesus in the sacrament is being offered again as a sacrifice to God for the guilt of people, of sinners.

The sacrament, on the other hand, according to Jesus' words of institution is given precisely for this reason: For the forgiveness of sins. His body was offered once, together with his blood upon the cross. But it's here distributed as a pledge and a certainty of the forgiveness of sins. So that's a fundamental difference regarding the sacrament itself.

Again, distinguishing between Roman Catholic and Lutheran doctrine, the Roman Catholic church officially teaches that the atoning work of Jesus is not sufficient for salvation but that the works of Christians, the loving service of Christians, becomes also a factor in their salvation. That's, of course, clearly anti-scriptural.

And so it would not be possible for those who confess decidedly conflicting understandings of the very nature of salvation itself, the chief article regarding justification, to commune from the same altar.

What about our Protestant friends? There, I think, in California you have a lot of people who come from nonsacramental churches who may be visiting your church. Their understanding of the Lord's Supper is that it's an ordinance, that is, a command which is given to the church in order to remember Jesus by.

And while indeed the sacrament is a sacrament of remembrance, it is a remembrance in which we actually are fed with the very body and blood which was once given and shed for our salvation. It is a real participation, as the apostle writes in the text I just read, in the very body of Christ that was given on the cross in His blood which was said shed for the forgiveness of the whole world.

And so, therefore, it's a far different understanding in terms of our understanding of the Lord's Supper and theirs.

And I'm sure they would not want to endorse our public teaching regarding the Lord's Supper. So it's a matter of common courtesy. We would not expect them to publicly affirm our doctrine.

Now, of course, this escapes a lot of people, particularly in our time when they think of the sacrament primarily as a question of hospitality. You know, if I'd come to your house or you'd come to mine, we would be normally offering each other something to eat or to drink. It's a matter of common courtesy.

And so people are, in our age of tolerance, a bit put

off when the practice of closed communion is stressed. They think it's an act of intolerance. They think that church is being inhospitable.

Well, as Dr. Warneck has already pointed out, in actuality, it's for the very sake of inclusion that we insist on a common confession of the faith. In other words, after proper instruction and as a person has publicly stated their confession of the faith which our church teaches, then they're received into communicant membership, that is, into full participation in the sacrament of the altar so that they, together with us, might give a united confession of this common faith. It's an act of real Christian compassion, in other words.

But really it's more than that. It's a question also of being concerned for people's spiritual welfare.

In point of fact it really isn't healthy for people to receive communion if they don't understand what it is. For that point let me refer you to the 11th chapter of I Corinthians where we read about an aberration, really, that developed in the congregation of the Corinthians regarding the Lord's Supper.

And that's in I Corinthians 11 where we read verses 27 and following. "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself then and so eat the of bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill and some of you have died."

In other words, in the Corinthian congregation, the practice there was of having a fellowship meal before the Lord's Supper. And, when they got to the Lord's Supper itself, they were no longer able to distinguish between common or ordinary bread and wine and the bread and wine which had been consecrated by the Lord's words which were also the body and blood of Jesus. They were not discerning the body, if you will.

And, therefore, they did not properly examine themselves regarding the sacrament. They had defiled or profaned that holy thing. And there were consequences for them. There was physical illness implied as a result of their abusing of the Lord's Supper.

Now, to use an analogy, I think, Nick, you were involved in teaching science in high school. And you understand that there are certain procedures regarding some of the experiments that might happen in a classroom. That it might not be healthy for all of the students to be utilizing all of those chemical elements without proper instruction. It's dangerous, in fact, for people to engage in those practices if they don't know what they're

doing. So also now, as I said, we are stewards of the

mysteries of God, pastors who are called to serve congregations. It's important that we understand that these most holy things, namely, the body and blood of Jesus for our salvation would be given proper respect, that they would be handled correctly, in other words, received properly as they're given, and that people would be prepared to receive it as the Lord has instituted it.

So, therefore, the question you originally asked -- Is it really proper that we commune only Lutherans at our altar? -- well, the answer "yes" and "no." It's not merely the name "Lutheran" that is important. It's rather that confession of a common Christian faith, which is believed and taught and confessed in our midst. This is the focus regarding our practice of closed communion. It's not a matter of which particular church you belong to but rather the faith which you confess.

We walk together as Christians in the Lutheran church Missouri synod confessing a common body of doctrine. This is our unity. It's expressed outwardly in our communion practices. I hope that helps you understand this important practice.



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>> JOSH: Professor, I'm wondering about commune discipline. Is it ever appropriate to deny communion to a member? And, if so, how would I do that without splitting our congregation?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Josh, I'm very happy you asked the question exactly as you did. Because it shows an excellent pastoral attitude. Which faithful pastor, after all, would want to be responsible for splitting his congregation? And yet at the same time, as you pointed out, you want to be faithful in administering the sacrament.

So on what occasion would we want to urge a person not to commune or to refrain from communing? This really belongs to faithful care of the entire flock.

I'm going to refer you really to a foundational text here where St. Paul instructs some pastors from the area of Ephesus in the 20th chapter of Acts, verse 28. It's a very familiar verse. And I'm sure you heard it before. "Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to care for the church of God which He obtained with His own blood."

Two focal points there: Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, that is, those who are looking out for the welfare of the entire flock.

Now, I believe you and I have talked about this before. Out there on the range, whether one is a cattleman or a sheep herder, it's important to pay attention to the animals that you're in charge of.

And it's also true when it comes to being a spiritual shepherd. Sometimes, in case of ranching or sheep herding, one has to pay particular attention to the individual numbers of the flock or of the herd, as the case may be. Those selected animals need special attention to their individual needs, their particular ailments. And sometimes they need special medicines. Sometimes they need a special diet. Sometimes it isn't even healthy for that particular animal to eat the regular diet.

And so it is now when we come to the question of asking people not to commune. We must put this whole issue, of course, in the broader context of the fact that, by very definition, the members of the congregation, baptized Christians who share a common faith, are invited to partake of the Lord's gifts including the sacrament of the altar from that particular altar.

Also, we must remember that no individual pastor can ever exercise excommunication of any individual member of the congregation. That's a prerogative that beginnings to the entire flock. After all, the office of the keys is given to the church. And the pastors merely exercise that office. They do not have that right in and of themselves.

However, the faithful pastor will be concerned about the welfare of every individual within his flock. And so on certain occasions it might be necessary to exercise what the church has called for centuries and centuries the minor ban, if you will, that is, asking people, pastorly, gently, and tenderly, not to commune for a time so that something might be addressed in their life.

Now, what might this be? Well, it could be a case of where someone has an incorrect understanding regarding Christian doctrine or regarding particularly the sacrament itself. So that during this period of instruction that person would be gently brought to a common confession that the church professes.

Or, more particularly, probably more generally, more realistically, it would be a situation where a person is harboring in his or her heart some hatred or anger against another member of the congregation or even within the public community, in other words, engaging in an activity or behavior are or even an attitude which is unChristian by nature.

And to partake of the sacrament in that spiritual condition of impenitence would defile the sacrament. It would profane the holy thing, those mysteries of God which are given to us to steward and to administer.

And so for a time a pastor might gently and lovingly

discuss with an individual the practice of not taking communion until this particular problem is addressed, always with a goal toward restitution.

Now a word of caution. You mentioned the danger of splitting the congregation. And you're absolutely right. In fact, this whole area belongs to the area of Christian discipline. Christian discipline is something, unfortunately, that has really fallen into disuse and -- in broader circles within Christendom in general and even in our own midst in recent generations.

And so there must be some careful teaching that is done, I would say certainly, in general, regarding the importance of Christian faith and life and the way that they are related to one another, that faithful Christian living flows out of faithful Christian believing.

Now, when there's a problem in the Christian living area, that must be addressed lovingly on the part of the entire congregation. And Christians then ought to expect this. Just as within our households, we discipline the children that we love, so also then within the flock, there would be a concern for everyone's welfare.

Dr. Walther, in his pastoral theology, which he wrote, probably as you're aware, over 100 years ago in the 19th century, made these remarks regarding church discipline. He said, "The faithful pastor must be careful in the area of church discipline. Because, if the congregation is not used to the exercise of church discipline, this could indeed destroy that congregation." It could, as you say, end up splitting the congregation. People could ultimately end up not even hearing the Gospel because of this practice of church discipline.

So he says one must remember that the marks of the church are the preaching of the Gospel, the administration of the sacraments. Church discipline, on the other hand, is not one of the mark of the church. It rather is in the realm of a faithful practice.

So, in order to engage in faithful practice, what do you do? Well, you teach doctrine. You teach the doctrine of the church. You teach the doctrine of the word of God and the faithful administration of the sacraments. On the basis of that solid foundation then, you can go on to instruct about the importance of the practice of church discipline.

So a rather lengthy answer to a simple question. But I hope it helps you to understand both the importance of faithful admonishment of erring Christians and the careful administration of the means of grace.

But also, above all, through all, and really over all, the importance of faithful public teaching regarding all of these things.

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*** >> NICK: We have a lot of people in our area who

need personal encouragement and spiritual help. Well, I suppose this is true everywhere. What can you tell me about pastoral care? How do I minister to people who are troubled or lost?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Troubled or lost describes, unfortunately, far too many people in the world we live in. And you know that's exactly where Christ's church comes in and especially Christ's servants, that is, his pastors. I'm really glad you asked that question, Nick.

Spiritual encouragement, personal encouragement, spiritual help I think is the way you put it. You know, really that's what pastors are about. They are people who care for souls that are entrusted to them.

Pastoral care, I think was the phrase you used. In part and in parcel of that pastoral care is, first of all, to be a caring person. A pastor certainly holds his people in his heart. He rejoices with those who rejoice; he weeps with those who weep. And so part of what you're talking about is simply being a person who holds the interests of all the members of his church in his frame of reference. He's thinking about them all the time. He has compassion for them, and he cares about them.

But, you know, Nick, it's even far deeper than that. The historic understanding of the office of the ministry, when it

comes to the care of souls, is a deep and rich tradition. There are some terms here that are helpful to

remember. The longer classical term is the cura animarum, that is, the care of souls. In our German Lutheran tradition, that word translates as Seelsorge. You probably have heard that term. Or more specifically regarding pastors, Seelsorger. That is, again, people, pastors who care for souls.

But the term "care" here takes on even fuller dimensions. I'm sure, as you've visited in hospitals, you've seen the signs, for example, "care of the sick" or perhaps "cancer care" or "cancer cure." Care and cure go hand in hand when it comes to assisting people in physical needs in terms of medical care.

As you know, physicians of the body address those patients, those who are under their care, in a number of different ways. In terms of acute needs and moments of crisis, they address the symptoms, the urgent needs of that person physically with some interventions in terms of either surgical procedures or some medications or some kinds of practices that would help them return to health.

All throughout their life, however, a person who is under medical care also is being treated for chronic problems. He is being watched. He's being cared for on a number of different levels, if he has a recurring chronic illness that entails continuous care.

Also, there's the preventative healthcare, addressing needs before they occur in terms of taking stock of one's physical health, determining blood pressure and pulse rate and the like, all of which are indications or symptoms of a person's level of health or disease, as the case may be.

Now, I went into this rather lengthy illustration simply to point out that that really, historically, is what pastors have always been about -- keeping a finger on the pulse of their members, if you will, to determine how it is that they're doing spiritually speaking.

You mentioned sometimes people need personal encouragement, and sometimes they need spiritual help. And so pastors want to be Johnny on the spot, if you will. They want to be there in those kinds of times when there are special needs.

Throughout, overall, both before and after those moments of need, they want to continuously provide the care and the cure which God himself provides for His church. You could really say that that's really what's happening chiefly and primarily in the divine service itself where the Lord God of heaven and earth comes to earth through the means of grace to feed and to nourish His church on earth with all of His precious gifts, that He gives them the food which they need to feed their souls, He sustains them and heals all of their spiritual diseases even as He also addresses their

bodily ailments. Through that word and through those sacraments

these -- this is an ordinary way of pastoral care or the care of the soul.

In addition to that, however, pastors are also paying attention not just to the entire flock but also to each individual sheep. And so a pastor will want to keep in his mind and heart the spiritual history of each individual member of the congregation.

He wants to routinely visit the entire flock, that he sits in their homes, that he enjoys some small talk about their ordinary lives. He listens to them on a whole variety of topics, but always listening also with the ear of a good shepherd, alert to a spiritual symptom, to spiritual needs, always apt to teach as the apostle Paul says, willing to lead the person to the holy scriptures and through the scriptures to the Lord Jesus who feeds them, who nourishes them, who cares for them.

That really is what it means to have the care of souls, to be a Seelsorger, to always lead people to the green pastures and the quiet waters that God has for His people because He is our good shepherd.

In I Corinthians, once again, chapter 2, we see how it is that pastors go about this work, chapter 2, verses 11 and 12. "For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit who is from God so that we might understand the things freely given us by God." And then verse 13. "And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual." Or another way of putting that, to those who have the spirit.

So the way to encourage people personally, the way to provide them spiritual help is in every occasion to encourage them with the word of God; the sword of the spirit, which addresses their needs at the most fundamental and basic level, to provide them health and healing, encouragement, consolation, and the help which they need.

That's a great question, Nick. And I'm glad you have that attitude of being available to people in their times of need.



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>> ERIC: What about some of the ethical issues in pastoral care? Do I have a duty to report cases of abuse to local authorities, for example? What if a church member, or any person from the community for that matter, approaches me for absolution and then confesses a crime?

I know there are other ethical dilemmas which must arise, too. What guidance can you offer to help prepare us to handle these as we ought?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Great, Eric. It's important that the pastors be ethical. They uphold the standards of the profession. And certainly part and parcel of that would be to understand one's responsibilities both before the church and before the state.

And, actually, I think that it would be quite helpful in addressing your question to go back to some fundamental issues regarding basic Lutheran understanding of who Christians are, that is, the doctrine of vocation.

We live, as you know, according to our Lutheran doctrine, in two kingdoms at the same time -- god's kingdom of the left hand in which he rules by way of order and by ways of reason and through the state and through the levels and the orders of the society and government and also in the kingdom of the right hand where God rules by way of his word and through his sacraments.

It is a ministry of grace within the church. It is a ministry of law within the state, that is, in terms of social order, in terms of public law.

Now, the question you posed is a very specific circumstance. And it really places the pastor in a certain quandary because he has a conflict in his vocations. He is, to be sure, a citizen of the state. He is in obedience to the laws of the state. He certainly is also governed by the law of love in which he wants to do no harm to the neighbor.

At the same time he holds the office of the public ministry within the kingdom of the right hand and his vocation as a shepherd of sheep. He has specific responsibilities.

Now, it's interesting that our secular government here in the United States has, until this point, almost uniformally upheld the historic practice of pastoral confidentiality. And so, therefore, if a given conversation can be demonstrated to be of a spiritual nature, such as in the case of individual confession, that kind of conversation is excluded from inquiry by courts of law.

I'm aware, of course, that there are exceptions to that general rule. But by -- in general, one can safely say that is the stated position of our government.

One can also look within our own church body at a very helpful document. I think it was in the year 2001. A statement by our CTCR regarding the pastor/penetant privilege and a very helpful survey of the whole history of this practice and the unique nature of this conversation that takes place in just the circumstance that you suggested, namely, in the context of a confession.

So in that document the general direction is clearly in the side of the fact of upholding this unique confessional seal; that is, that the pastor must under every circumstance not divulge sins that are confessed within the context of that confession.

In fact, if you remember in the ordination rite that's exactly the words that are used. In inquiring of the candidate for the office of the ministry, "Will you promise never to divulge the sins confessed to you?" And I certainly would hope that no pastor would have a small asterisk to that, unless in certain circumstances.

Now, having said that as a general principle, let me address in particular that circumstance you talked about.

If an individual in the context of pastoral care, in this case individual confession, confesses genuine sorrow and contrition over a sin which is also a crime in the area of the state and the laws of the state, part of his contrition would certainly be that he would seek to make restitution or in this case to face the consequences of his crime.

Part of the rite of confession, after all, is the indication

on the part of the penetant that he not only is sorry for his sin but that he wants to do better.

This, again, is not a condition of the absolution, the forgiveness of sins, but is rather a proper preparation to receive that. And so, therefore, it's not by his contrition that he earns forgiveness, but it's rather by contrition that he acknowledges his sin and seeks the help which only that Gospel of forgiveness can give.

So, in other words, as part of your exhortation, encouragement to that person would be to lead him to seek the authorities of the state and to be responsible to them.

You, yourself, in your office of pastor are not his accuser. Nor are you a policeman, nor are you a judge. But God has instituted those authorities in our society who have those specific roles. And, therefore, it's their responsibility to see to it that those laws are upheld and that justice is done, if you will.

Your vocation is to see that before God, as the fathers used to say "corum deo," in the presence of God, this sinner, contrite as he is, is absolved and stands fully clothed in the righteousness of God even as he or she might face earthly consequences for his actions. I hope that helps.



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>> DAVID: I run into a lot of deeply troubled people asking for my help nearly every week. How do I know when to refer them to counselors and when to meet with them myself?

I'm currently attempting to decide whether a congregation member who seems deeply depressed needs psychiatric help in addition to the spiritual counseling I'm trying to offer. How shall I discern this?

What about marriage counseling? How much should I feel comfortable handling? Are there resources for such decisions that I could be using?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Okay. Great, David. It's important that you remember who you are when addressing questions like this. In fact, there's a short answer to your question and then there's a longer answer. And guess what? You're going to get both.

The short answer is you do what you're trained to do. And I know of very, very few pastors who have the kind of specialized training that's necessary to deal with deeply disturbed people in whatever area.

If they're dealing with mental illness of one variety or another or if they're dealing with deeply troubled relationships, that entails a level of specialty that really is not part of pastoral training.

Now, that said, pastors are equipped and they are prepared to address people at their innermost being level. And this

is true for all the kinds of individuals that you described. In other words, while people seek additional help, they're not to be derived of pastoral help. That lies at the very core of things very frequently with a lot of these issues and problems that people wrestle with, namely, questions of guilt and shame.

And there, of course, the Gospel, which is preached in the church, which is given to the pastors to proclaim, the sacraments of baptism and the Lord's Supper have at their core the forgiveness of sins for Jesus' sake in his very name instead to be fully absolved and free of guilt and also to be cleansed of the shame that often happens as kind of a -- of a carryover from sins that were committed against an individual.

So, in other words, as a pastor, you are equipped to address people's needs on a very fundamental level but in a specialized area, namely, in the area of the soul.

Now, of course, no pastor worth his salt would ever attempt to resolve a person's physical illness solely on the basis of spiritual care. Unfortunately, however, some pastors venture out to address emotional or mental problems on the basis of spiritual care alone. And that's not healthy.

Just as we are in partnership with physicians of the body when it comes to caring for people's souls, so I think it's also important that we form alliances with counselors in the area where we live. Identify those individuals who are trained in terms -- in areas of counseling who can help those needs that you address, that you mentioned, such as marital counseling needs or psychological help. And, by identifying those professionals, you can then refer as necessary.

Now, what are some signs and indications that it might be necessary to refer an individual? Well, certainly, every human being has their ups and downs emotionally. And it's quite natural for a person sometimes to be in a time in their life or a period in their life when they are generally quite content and quite happy, so to speak.

And then sometimes it goes in a cyclical fashion. And for a number of days or maybe even weeks they're not quite so happy. They're in a little bit of a depressed mode.

But, when that becomes an overwhelming burden, when it's very hard for a person, for example, to get out of bed in the morning consistently, when it really affects their appetite and some of their sleep cycles, when it affects their personal lives in a number of ways, that may be an indication that it's time to seek additional help of a spiritual -- rather of a mental nature or perhaps of a physical nature. One of the good ways is to refer a person to their physician to get a physical checkup and then to be referred from there to various counselors and therapists that could be of

assistance addressing these kind of depressed modes. Sometimes we find people who come to us in a kind

of a really exuberant mode that's really out of sync with reality. If a person is not really in sync with things as they are actually happening, for example, if they're hearing voices or if they're seeing things that are not there, this is an indication that there might be something seriously wrong with them mentally. And, of course, they need some interventions.

So the longer answer to your question is find those resources in your community, both physical and mental, that might be of assistance to your people. And then refer them as necessary.

I would add also, importantly, don't neglect those people then having referred them. Remember they still need the ministration of the word of God and the sacraments. In other words, they need their pastor even when they're in the hospital for bodily needs or under the care of a therapist for their emotional or mental needs or perhaps hospitalized as well.

We continue to provide this ongoing care. And also it's possible to actually engage in a partnership with these professional therapists. And they would always require the individual who's coming to them for help to sign a release so that they could confer with you.

But I found again in my own ministry this is of great value when it comes to providing the kind of spiritual help that's needed in the motion of their particular crisis that they're facing so that I am in tune with what's developing with them in terms of their psychotherapy. So this consulting relationship can be very, very helpful provided the person is willing to sign that release that's needed.

So these are some ideas on how to refer and when to refer.



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>> NICK: Professor Senkbeil, I really appreciate the direction David's question and your response have taken us. But I have a concern.

As I may have already said, I was formerly a high school biology teacher. Our school's principal went to great lengths especially in recent years to remind us regularly that we need to protect our reputation as a teacher and the reputation of our students by not creating reason for idle talk, gossip, or formal accusation. As a male teacher, I never met with a female student alone.

Now, we were just speaking about spiritual counseling. Do similar concerns arise in this context for a pastor? What can I do as a minister to protect the office of public ministry, my member's reputation, and my own reputation?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: You know, Nick, all three of those areas are very, very important -- your member's reputation, your own reputation, and above all the ministry to which you're called.

You remember when we were looking at the duties of a pastor, in I Timothy chapter 3 the apostle reminds us that pastors must be well thought of by outsiders so that he may not fall into disgrace into a snare of the devil.

You know, Nick, I can't think of any area that has really caused more of a problem for the public ministry than that

specific area you mentioned. Obviously, a pastor does not want to be open to litigation in terms of lawsuits or expensive kinds of processes that might happen as a result of incidents like you talked about.

But, chiefly, as a steward of the mysteries of God, as a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, we certainly would not want our actions or some people's perceptions of our actions to reflect poorly upon the ministry of the means of grace.

So how is it that a pastor then protects this public reputation of the office? I think it is important in a very similar way that your superiors there in the high school urged you to be cautious in this area, it's important that pastors also be somewhat guarded.

For example, when you're counseling with a parishioner by yourself, it's important that someone be nearby to ascertain and to affirm that the relationship that was going on in that conversation was generally a pastoral one.

In my case often times, when I did not have a secretary in the early years of my mission congregation I served, I would on occasion invite my wife to come over and to do some crocheting in the outer office nearby.

One must be careful not merely regarding members of the opposite sex. But, unfortunately, sad to say in the times in which we live, even with the same sex so that there be somewhat of a protection regarding the sanctity of the office that you represent and the work that you're doing on the Lord's behalf.

Now, that said, it's also important to remember that, by definition, some of what the pastor does is by definition confidential. How can a pastor then prevent this kind of -- these kinds of acquisitions being leveled against him when he's engaged, for example, in a situation of private confession?

Well, I think it's important there that the external arrangements be conducive to exactly what's going on. Personal confession, I think, might well take place, for example, in the sanctuary before the altar in a private circumstance in that there are no others there, but, nevertheless, within the sanctuary, which is a public place designated for the gifts of God.

Also to have a particular time when that might take place. Posted times, for example, might be a good way to do that.

Also, above all, I think it's important that a pastor be a man of his word, that he achieve a good reputation not because of an image that he projects but chiefly because of what he does. That he's trustworthy; that he speaks God's word in every occasion; that he exudes, if you will, the aura of what it means to be a shepherd of souls; to be one who is himself under the authority of God, who's given charge of preaching the word and teaching the

word and administering the sacraments. This, as I said before, Dr. Walther called a habitus of

the soul. It's something that a pastor embodies because of what he does, faithfully administering God's very graces to the people of God.

So, in other words, caution is certainly well-advised; discretion, certainly; and above all, integrity in office is very, very important. Thanks for that question, Nick.



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>> JOSH: I have a question. How do I counsel a person who has sinned, who has repented and been absolved, but who remains burdened with guilt that she cannot overcome?

As you can tell, I'm thinking of a particular person here. A congregation member who had an abortion a couple of decades ago. I have struggled to help her, but she remains guilt ridden. Are you able to help me? Maybe you can provide us with some advice to handle situations like this one.

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Well, Josh, you put your finger on a situation that's probably one of the most difficult to handle. And that's one that a lot of people call post-abortion syndrome. It's not uncommon for women in the situations you described to have lingering effects of that action as they begin to recognize the reprehensible nature of destroying or killing their own unborn child and grieving a loss that seems to be almost, humanly speaking, irrecoverable.

But, of course, all things are possible with God. And the forgiveness which is pronounced in such a contrite soul is an efficacious forgiveness, that is, it does what it says. And so you're to be commended for your pastoral concern for this individual.

Now, that said, how does one assist such a person whether it be in post-abortion situations or other kinds of sins in struggling with being burdened by guilt or riddled with guilt, as you say it?

Well, I think there a multiple layer effect is very important. Recognizing that a pastor must be patient in these circumstances, always listening. Sometimes I think it's easy for us as pastors in situations like that to become impatient, in fact, maybe even to be a little bit perturbed because that person hasn't heard what we're saying, evidently. They're not able to grasp what we've been giving them so carefully and faithfully. And so we might take it personally. And that would be the worst thing in the world.

It's important, rather, that we listen compassionately, listening with our ears tuned to all the nuances. Perhaps as a person like this, for example, continues to give voice to a sense of guilt, maybe they're reliving the experience. Maybe they're asking themselves why did I ever think this way or why did I ever do this thing? Even though they, themselves, have confessed their sin and been absolved, they might be living with regret or playing some what-if games, for example, with themselves.

The answer to this situation is always patiently and faithfully to continue to minister to them, to teach them the word of God, to listen to that word which was spoken in Christ's name and stead. I forgive you your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

That forgiveness of sins which comes to us from the outside is the solution to the internal struggles that you talked about.

Dr. Luther used to speak of the external nature of the Gospel as the sure foundation upon which the Christian stands. That word of the Gospel always addresses me from the outside in. It is extra nos, as he said, in the Latin language. It comes to us from the outside. My assurance is never inside, because in my heart there dwells no good thing.

Out the heart proceeds, Jesus said, all kinds of sin -- murder, adultery, theft, fornications, and the like. So I always need to cling to that word which comes to me from the outside, which addresses me through the ear; that word which alone brings life.

So part of the answer is faithfully to continue to preach publicly in the divine service regarding the riches and the abundance of the grace of God in Jesus Christ, His son, and then privately and personally to reassure that person and to reinforce what you're publicly preaching and teaching.

Beyond that it's also possible to stress the very nature of the lively nature of this word and the -- efficacious nature of the sacraments themselves.

After all, it's not for nothing that we call baptism Holy Baptism and that we call the Lord's Supper the Holy Supper. That is, because of the sanctifying nature of the word of God which is an instrument of the Holy Spirit, it drives away fear, it drives away the

stress, it restores that person to innocence and righteousness before God and yes, even the holiness of Jesus Christ himself.

Particularly in the sacrament of the altar I think this is important to remember. It's a remarkable thing, after all, that your Lord Jesus invited His disciples and His Christian church on earth to receive with their mouths not only His body but His blood. Blood, as you know, in the Bible is the fluid of life. The very life of God which bestows and gives life because it bestows and gives forgiveness.

Where there's forgiveness of sins, there's also life and salvation. A person that wrestles with the burden of guilt that you described is wrestling with a whole load not merely of guilt but of shame and distress as well. They're wrestling also really with death itself.

And so, to give them this assurance, this confidence in the life of Jesus Christ which is given to them in His word and particularly and uniquely in this sacrament that cleanses them from the inside out, if you will, to give to them the very righteousness and innocence of Jesus.

The devil, you know, the Bible reminds us, is a liar and the father of lies. And he would like nothing so much as to get Christians to remember their sins. He continually preaches, if you will, to them regarding their past sins and asks: Are you sure that God could forgive that? The person that thinks thoughts like you are, how could he possibly be a real Christian?

It's important then that Christians in such circumstances, when under the spiritual assaults of the accuser, the devil, that they are reminded of the clear word of the Gospel, the word of truth which addresses them from the outside in. That word which alone brings life and vitality by which they can drive out all fear and distress and the assaults of the evil one.

When your conscience accuses you, Dr. Luther reminded us, then listen to the word of the Lord Christ. When the devil accuses you of being a sinner, Christ intervenes. He says, "I will reverse that. I'll be the sinner. You go free."

More specifically and directly, we could listen to these words of God himself in the second chapter of I John. "My little children, I'm writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But, if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins. And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

So, when conscience or the devil accuses a person of sin, when they're burdened with guilt, remind them that they have a defense attorney par excellence, an advocate with the father. They have an advocate in high places. He sits at the right hand of God. He is Jesus Christ, the righteous one, who pleads his blood, his

body before the throne of his father in heaven on behalf of all sinners of all time. He is an advocate with the father. His blood is the propitiation for all our sins. There's our confidence, and there's the assurance for such a person.

Thanks very much for a very important question. ***


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>> NICK: Dr. Senkbeil, how do I gain some skills in soul care? What skills should I develop? Where do I start when a troubled person wants to talk with me? And what goals would I have for the long term? Should I have a plan?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Should you have a plan? Well, certainly, the old saying pertains "whoever fails to plan plans to fail."

And really, Nick, for the long term I think it's important that, especially in troubled cases of individuals in the congregation, it is important to have a long-term plan. And let's address that by beginning really with the foundational things.

You asked about skills in pastoral care. And you're absolutely right. Like most fields of any importance, pastoral theology has both a science and an art to it.

Just as in medical schools we train physicians of the body with a whole body of information of knowledge regarding the body and its care, so it is that in training pastors we give to them a rich abundance of resources regarding knowledge of the scriptures, of Christian doctrine, of a history of the church, of the application of that in terms of pastoral theology.

But, finally, it gets down to the application of this knowledge, doesn't it? And just as medical schools produce doctors, they then go out to practice medicine, so it is that pastors who learn a body of knowledge regarding theology go on to

practice pastoral theology. They learn the art, if you will, of soul care on the job.

And, you know, a lot of what you will use in the ministry is what you've been given already in terms of your experience as a Christian. You know, for example, what it's like to wrestle with your own old Adam. You know how sin works in yourself. You've seen it in operation in your neighbors and in your family and on the job.

And you've been given now or will be given shortly a special responsibility in the church as one who stands in Christ's place to minister to His people with the sacred means of His word and sacraments.

So how do you obtain skills in pastoral care? I think it's, first of all, by knowing the Bible, by knowing Christian doctrine, by knowing the chief articles of the Christian faith and on every occasion teaching them as the occasion arises. But also keeping an ear wide open to the needs of people.

And, you know, Nick, I think really, at this juncture in history in the early 21st century, people are so frenzied and so busy that when someone gives them their full attention and listens to them, that in itself is very, very helpful to people.

And I think you'll find that, if you take time for individuals and you really listen to them, then you'll be helping them. But you're listening to them for a specific reason.

Just as when you visit your medical doctor, he takes a medical history of your various ailments and what your life is like, where you've been, what kinds of medical care you've received in the past, so as a pastor you're going to be interested in a person's spiritual history. You're going to be interested in their previous relationship with God in His church. You're going to be all ears when it comes to their secular environment and their family and their work and all those kinds of attachments. But all the while you're going to be listening for cues, if you will, or clues as to what's happening with them spiritual speaking.

These are just symptoms, mind you. If a person is prone, for example, to fear or doubt, that's going to show up in their conversation in a certain element of uncertainty. It will not do simply to dismiss that and say well, a Christian shouldn't doubt or shouldn't be uncertain. But rather you're going to treat that as a symptom of something. You're going to try to get underneath to understand what is the underlying ailment.

And just as a medical doctor proceeds from a case history to a diagnosis to a prescription to an ongoing prognosis and then to observation, so it is that a pastor proceeds in much the same way. He has his ears tuned both to the person and his or her history, to the symptoms which they give voice to or which he

observes. And also he has his ears tuned to the word of God. He wants to bring God through his word to this individual.

The pastor himself has no cure to bring to individuals. Only the Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, is the one who cares for his sheep. But he does it in his church through the office of the ministry. What is that? The Gospel and the sacraments. Through these, as through means, he sends the Holy Spirit who works faith when and where he pleases in those who hear the Gospel.

We heard that before, Augsburg 5. It's a very practical aspect of the care of souls of acquiring and strengthening the art of pastoral care.

Now, Nick, about that pastoral care plan we discussed, surely, when someone comes to you with a problem, you can talk about it right then and there. But, as I said, sometimes the most beneficial thing you can do is simply to listen and to listen very carefully.

And then, if you're not thoroughly aware of how this should be handled, it's important then not to jump in on -- giving an answer that you're really uncertain of. Rather I think it would be useful simply to close the conversation with the word of God and with prayer and ask the person if you can get back to them.

In the meantime you can consult other resources, consult other pastors so that you might be better able to address the situation.

But in complex situations you want to have more of a comprehensive plan. The components of a pastoral care plan are really quite simple following that model of pastoral care that I discussed.

That is, first of all, we understand the symptoms. Then we arrive at a diagnosis. What's the underlying problem, the question behind the question, if you will?

Then, once we've arrived at the core of the issue, we apply the resources and the gifts of God that He's provided, namely, His word and His sacraments to address that issue.

So the components of a pastoral care plan would be the following: First, arriving at a diagnosis, then suggesting a prescription. What specific texts from the word of God would be useful for this person? How will I as a pastor use these not merely in my conversations with that person in terms of teaching but also in terms of the prayer which I'm offering for that person and with that person?

What dimensions of blessing would be particularly helpful to this person in helping him or her to address the circumstances they're in?

How will I help this person to find the resources that

he or she needs in the divine service, that is, the public worship of the church where the Gospel is regularly preached and the sacraments administered? Sometimes people really don't know how to grasp hold of these gifts that are offered there. And one of the best things you can do is to train them to receive them.

Perhaps another component in pastoral care plan would be to teach the person how to pray, how to pray more directly regarding this issue or this problem, how to pray on the basis of God's sure promises in His word. After all, even the disciples had to ask the Lord Jesus to teach them to pray.

And so one of the chief things we're doing as pastors is to train people in the art of prayer, particularly, that model we discussed earlier, the model of prayer which is based upon answering speech, listening first to the word of God and then echoing that word back to Him in one's own prayer.

Finally, in a pastoral care plan, in most complex situations, there are other problems besides spiritual issues that are really compounding the issue.

And so, as a pastor, I'd want to identify what are those issues? Maybe it's an economic issue. Maybe it's a social issue. Maybe it's an emotional or a mental issue. Maybe it's a physical issue. And so I'm going to want to refer that person to the appropriate resources or people that they can find some assistance.

Then also don't neglect the fellowship of the communion the saints, the priesthood of all believers, the members of your congregation. How could some of those people be brought into the picture to be resources and helps, perhaps mentors, perhaps simply lending a compassionate ear or an encouraging word. All of these components could play into a pastoral care plan.

And, if I were you, I would actually keep record of those things. When did I use these texts? What referrals were made? What kinds of results did you observe?

Now, those records, I must hasten to add, are part of your confidential pastoral care of that individual. They belong to privileged information, confidential information. You ought not to share that with other people. And, when you leave that parish, those records should be destroyed, since they're part of the individual pastoral care that you're offering to that person. I hope that helps.



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>> DAVID: These questions about pastoral care to congregation members have me thinking. A great number of Lutheran churches in Ohio operate a Lutheran elementary school. In this circumstance, the pastor of the congregation which sponsors the school may find himself counseling families who participate in the school but who are not members of the congregation. What is appropriate in such a case?

How is the pastor's role among school families different than or similar to his ministry among the church families?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Great question, David. This is a situation many pastors find themselves in these days when their parish has a school. We find that nonmembers of the parish are sending their children to Lutheran schools.

Of course, as Lutherans schools they're continuing to teach the faith, which we teach and confess. But, as Christians from other denominations, we're not their pastor. And, as you say, that does present a unique circumstance.

How is it the same and how is it different than your ministry to members of a church who have their children in their school? Great question.

I think, in order to answer that, we have to go back to fundamental things. We talked about pastoral theology being a habitus of the soul, that is, who a pastor is. A pastor does as a

pastor is, you could say. Who he is determines what he does. And in a real way you can take a pastor out of the

situation of the surroundings of his parish, but he still remains a pastor. So even in the community on the street or in the local restaurant, he still remains pastoral. And, certainly, he wants to be helpful to people who are in need.

But one must remember, according to the standards of our profession and according to holy scripture, that you are a shepherd only of those souls that have been entrusted to you in that particular parish.

To quote St. Paul once again in his remarks to the Ephesian pastors in Acts, chapter 20, the charge is to "take heed to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseer."

The simple fact is you're not the pastor, the called pastor of those people whose children are in your school or not members of your parish. They have their own pastors.

So, while you're not going to write them off if they have spiritual needs, you're going to refer them for crucial and essential spiritual issues to their own pastors.

Now, that said, certainly there are situations within your school and its daily functions that call for pastoral advice. Daily operation of the school, on the other hand, when it comes to educational matters or to school disciplinary functions really belongs to the principal of the school. That's his office or her office.

But, when it comes to spiritual questions of -- which come from anyone within that school family, it might properly be addressed to you. And I think you can properly give answer to those questions as they come up.

But for acute spiritual needs you'd want to refer them to their own pastors. That way we would never be accused of what's called "sheep stealing" or of abusing pastoral authority or pastoral concern.

Now, of course, in the case of people who are sending their children to your school who are not members of any church at all, they're evangelism prospects, aren't they? And the school is an effective tool of outreach to such families. And so, certainly, you would want to be pastoral to them in every opportunity inviting them to be a part of your congregation in more ways than simply sending their children to your school.

And avenues to do that, of course, would be within the children's instruction in the Christian faith. As they're learning the catechism, so you would properly invite those families, their parents, to partake and to participate in your adult instruction.

Certainly, you want to take advantage of the opportunity as you go around the entire parish to visit such

households too, those households that are not members of any church at all but send their children to your school. And there you have a terrific opportunity to sit down in a very personal way in their own living room, as the case may be. And to talk with them very candidly and personally regarding the faith and the importance of faith in Jesus Christ, a participation in the life of the church. And invite them into full membership in your church through participation in your adult instruction.

So in that case it's a special circumstance. They really don't have a pastor. And you're certainly within your rights as an evangelist to address them and to care for them in that way.



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>> NICK: Thank you for that question, David. We also have dozens of Lutheran schools in the Pacific southwest. You asked about how a pastor ministers to families of the school.

I guess I have a similar question. What is the pastor's role among the children of the school on a daily basis?

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: Well, certainly, Nick, they

would not want to be neglected in terms of pastoral care. After all, Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not stop them, for such is the kingdom of God."

And one must always remember as a pastor that you have responsibility not just to the big people but to the little people, too.

And what a marvelous opportunity, if your congregation has a parish school, to be in daily contact with the children just to be among them in a normal way, to be visible is part of that, not to hide in your office or to be off somewhere else but to be routinely and regularly visible as a pastor, a shepherd of the flock, also concerned about them no matter how young they might be.

Now, there are formal ways that this can be done. In the school which I was privileged to serve as part of my parish in Wisconsin, it was our practice routinely every week to, as pastors, that one of us would be in each classroom both to teach and also to answer questions.

And, while we might be interested in teaching one article of the Christian faith, one chief part of the Christian doctrine, we would also handle questions that arise as part of the ordinary conversation that happens in a classroom. And teachers and students alike all look forward eagerly to the visit of their pastor in the confines of their classroom.

To regularly and routinely teach and preach in the context of a chapel of that school is important in chapel services. Not to delegate that to someone else because perhaps you think other duties that you have are more pressing.

Here's a terrific responsibility. Here are members of your flock and their friends from the community who are gathered here for instruction in your school. And part of that would be an opportunity then to hear from the shepherd of the flock, to tend them and to care for them, as you do all the members of the congregation, in the public services of the church so you do also within this chapel service which is a public service of worship in the conversation.

So, at every opportunity, you want to be pastor and shepherd to everyone, no matter how big, no matter how small. And children, the time that you spend with them is time well spent. Because these are their formative years. Impressions that are made then will serve them well as they grow to adulthood and as they go through that turbulent area of their adolescence. Sometimes you things that you say in the simplest way and the simplest level will be something that they recall in those trying times. So I commend that to you for your consideration and practice.



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>> JOSHUA: As pastors, we will also have the opportunity to offer counseling and comfort to those who are sick. Can this be a good opportunity for pastors to be of special service to his people? It seems to me it can be.

>> DR. WARNECK: Joshua, when persons are overtaken by illness, they also are overtaken by considerable anxiety -- anxiousness about their present welfare, sometimes anxiousness about their relationship to the Lord.

They ask questions. What is God saying to me? And what is the future? So these very weighty issues prey heavily on the minds of the sick and the afflicted.

It's a marvelous opportunity to bring to them the consoling faithful words and promises of God which have sustained Christians in their faith through difficult times all the way from day one, as it were.

So let's talk about this just a little bit more. We indicated some of the anxieties that are apparent here when a person is seriously ill.

Acute awareness of how fragile life is, the brevity of life, how life is vulnerable -- all of these relate to a heightened sense of our mortality. And, as such, illness can be a very teachable moment.

And that's when the pastor moves in with the comfort of God and His word. God's purposes in affliction, in sending these

burdens upon our people, His purposes are not always clear and not always apparent.

As we indicated, there are many questions. How difficult it is for a Christian to deal with the ironies and unexpected causes of affliction and the implications of illness -- these are crosses indeed.

The great opportunity for the Christian pastor is not to answer all of the questions surrounding illness but to help the afflicted redirect some of their questions in this way: Not why does the Lord afflict me and why am I suffering, but how might I use these present circumstances in which I find myself in a manner that the Lord's strength is perfected in me in terms of the apostle Paul's own reflection on his thorn in the flesh about which he speaks rather eloquently in II Corinthians chapter 12. This is the direction our ministry should take, we submit.

So, when persons press those questions, the pastor attempts to reinterpret them in such a way that the afflicted Christian finds stability and comfort in God's gracious promises to endure the Lord's visitation and heavy hand, if you will, to comprehend that, "As a loving father chastens and disciplines his child," Hebrews chapter 12, 1 and following, "so the Lord chastens those whom He loves."

Now, if we can lead a Christian in the midst of their anxiety over their illness to that kind of confidence in a gracious and merciful God and his even though we do not understand his dealings with us, it seems that we have a very useful and effective ministry here.

There's one caution in this regard, and it is this: Many Christians interpret illness, accident, tragedies as God's punishment in their lives. We need to help them with this.

Indeed there are some happenings which can virtually be interpreted in terms of cause and result. Those things occur. But many times we cannot and should not link a particular result with a particular cause, in this instance, that one has sinned and, therefore, God is visiting him in his judgment and punishment.

To help them with this, I would suggest that we simply remember that the apostle Paul worked through these kinds of questions in the passage I referred to a moment ago, II Corinthians 12, where he besought the Lord three times, he says. Maybe three intensive retreats of a kind. He was so intense about pleading with the Lord over this thorn in the flesh, whatever it was, something physical, something mental, whatever it was.

The Lord answered him and said, "My strength is made perfect in your weakness."

And then the apostle's response: "Most gladly will I, therefore, delight in the visitation of the Lord that His strength might

be perfected in me." Now I submit that that's kind of a paradigm that will be

very useful to us in addressing some of those acute questions that Christians raise about their illness and their sufferings.



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>> JOSH: Thank you, Dr. Warneck. Here is a follow-up question. Can you now be more specific? How does a pastor make helpful visits to a person who is ill?

>> DR. WARNECK: Joshua, I want to answer that question somewhat out of the background of my own experience as a pastor and bring some things from that experience that may be helpful to you as you go about caring for your people.

Today, with the high cost of hospitalization and medical care, you will find that your people are not in healthcare facilities nearly as long as they used to be. And much of this ministry is going to be in the environment of their homes. So we might expect that.

Within healthcare facilities we want to be aware of the HIPA federal guidelines, the Health Information Protection Act, which leads institutions, hospitals, and other healthcare facilities to be rather cautious about who they let on their premises.

Although the practices of hospitals here with respect to pastors is still usually very open. But you want to be aware that you may well identify yourself as you come to these locations and be prepared to indicate who you're going to visit. And you may advise your people to -- who are hospitalized to let the institution know that you might be visiting them so you have permission to reach them. But you can work through those kinds of logistics.

More to the point, when we come to our people, we want to come as a professional. I want to accent this. Because a

physician, a Christian doctor who is on our board at our seminary, came to some of our classes. And he gave us a few tips on how pastors should present themselves when visiting the sick.

First of all, he said show up. That's certain important. It's unconscionable that some pastors do not look after the sick in their parishes. That we certainly want to correct, and we want to be pastor who cares and shows up.

Relative to dress, he suggested not too casual but to dress professionally so that we let the patient know that he or she is important enough for us to give real thoughtful attention to him or her when they are ill. So pressed clothes, shined shoes, a clean clerical shirt or shirt and tie, coat, suit or sportcoat -- these things are recommended.

I'm talking about some very common things. But it's amazing that in some instances we slip a few gears in this area. And sometimes pastors come to this ministry kind of unprepared. So you want to be a professional person.

Secondly, it's well for us to come to this ministry as alert as possible. By that I mean a pastor anticipates his ministry to the sick as well as he can. He thinks ahead. Now, what might I find when I enter the hospital room? How might my member, my patient be and what state of mind? And what will their condition be?

We don't have to be as precise as a surgeon who is planning out a three-hour procedure, but it's well for us to think ahead how our ministry today will best serve the patient we're visiting.

Then, as we arrive and meet our patient, to risk belaboring the obvious, the pastor introduces himself. Some patients cannot tell. So many people are entering and leaving the room during the course of the day. And it's always well for to the pastor to make his presence known and introduce himself.

Going about our ministry to the patient, listening is absolutely essential. More listening than speaking. It's well for our pastors to remember this. Pastors are accustomed to preaching, to being on stage, front stage, so to speak and holding forth. In this ministry, quiet, alert, and attentive listening is very helpful.

Now, what do we listen for? It's a combination of listening and observing. I recommend that, before you bring your devotional ministry to a patient who is ill, that you work through in your mind mentally, very quickly, three issues.

First of all, from your observation, what is the physical condition of the patient? You do not have to be informed on all the details of the particular ailment or illness. But it's well to have some knowledge, if possible, about the patient in this regard. Why is he or she in the hospital?

Secondly, the patient's emotional state. That is, how does this patient internalize? And how is he or she reflecting that internalization of his or her present condition and confinement under illness and in the hospital? How does the patient feel about all this -- about himself, herself, and about their diagnosis, about the prognosis, and these kinds of things?

The third point to reflect on is the patient's spiritual state in all of this. As much as we are able to discern. And that's the reason for the careful and close listening.

How is the patient reflecting on himself or herself and the Lord? Relating their present circumstances to God and His will for them? How is that patient thinking about their relationship to their Lord in these present circumstances? Do they have questions? Are they angry? Are they simply confused?

As much as possible, if the pastor can discern -- and he has to work very quickly -- some cognizance of these three points -- the physical condition, the emotional state, and one's spiritual life here.

The pastor will be prepared then to address the patient skillfully and patiently with the comfort of the scriptures.

And the pastor goes about this very naturally. We recommend that a pastor carry with him a small volume, a little handbook, the pocket New Testament and Psalms. You can find these from various printers. Gideon's provides them, for one. Sometimes you can pick up a copy.

But, when the pastor takes in his hand the scriptures, the patient seeing is already mentally prepared for the pastor going about his ministry for their welfare.

So that's a start. Then, sharing a few brief verses, selected for this patient today, a little reflection and application. What is the Lord saying to us in His words today? Wrapping up the patient's concerns as we discern them in a prayer. Followed by the Lord's Prayer. And most of our people like to pray the Lord's Prayer. Let's give them that opportunity.

And, finally, a little word of blessing. And that composes your devotion and your ministry on this particular day.

So we don't have to be uptight about this work. We don't have to be anxious ourselves. Let's relax and let the word of God do the work it wants to do. Let the Holy Spirit have a chance.

Now, a couple of other things to mention here briefly. In our prayers do we pray for healing? The reason I raise that question is I have observed a -- I don't want to say a trend, but a theme -- maybe it's a thematic thing -- that proper Lutheran pastoral care places our good Christian people under the cross. And much of the ministry is from the vantage of the theology of the cross, which is well and good.

But sometimes I get the impression that the objective in this approach is to simply help the Christian be submissive to the Lord in His will. That's a very salutary objective, certainly.

But I certainly believe -- and perhaps you share the conviction, Joshua -- that it is well for us to pray for the healing of this patient. The Lord said, "Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden."

His own ministry recorded in the Gospels is a response of healing to so many, many people. Those passages indicated that the Lord was busy for a whole afternoons and evenings healing the sick. This should encourage us to bring the burden of illness to the Lord and pray for healing. That's a simply a point that I wish to make here. I think it's an important point.

Coming back to some of the mechanics, in closing on this subject, how long does a pastor stay in a call like this? Well, five minutes may be a bit brief, unless we're in the intensive care units. And then our ministry should properly be very brief and to the point because the caregivers there and the medical professionals are very busy with these persons.

But in the general hospital area, 5 minutes, maybe 10 minutes is a good gauge. 15 minutes might be getting on the long side. We don't want to tire patients. They're there to get rest, and that helps them get well. So use your good judgment.

When we stand with a patient, do we stand or do we take seat? The rule of thumb here is to have good eye contact with a patient. Some patients are elevated in the beds in which they're lying. You can stand there and have good eye contact. Other patients where they are situated is rather low. Instead of looking over and down on a patient, pull up a chair. The principle is keep the eye contact kind of level. That helps the patient.

There's another factor here. And that's the tactile one, the use of touch. Very common today. We're more relaxed with people.

But, when you touch a patient, for instance, if you pray with a patient, it might be well to touch on the forearm, on the wrist. Sometimes we may touch a patient on the forehead, doubtful that we ought to be putting our arm around a patient. But, in all these instances, the rule of thumb, again, is discretion, particularly with female patients, women patients. Discretion.

And yet we don't want to omit this gesture because we have to be impressed with the account of Jesus' ministry to the mother-in-law of Peter recorded in Matthew 8:15. I'm still impressed with that phrase, "He touched her hand."

So there are some intangible values here. But you, the pastor, Joshua, have to be comfortable with this. And that also should be your guide. But it's certainly a helpful gesture, and it

expresses some intangible things that simply verbalizing and the like cannot do. These are a few things to keep in mind as we visit the sick in institutions of healthcare.



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>> DAVID: Thank you for asking these questions, Josh. I've been struggling with my own ministry this month. I've had to try to counsel and comfort a person who knows he's dying of pancreatic cancer.

What does a pastor say to a Christian who is at death's door? How can he, or I in this case, best be of service?

>> DR. WARNECK: David, when a Christian is nearing the end of his or her days here on earth, it's a prime opportunity for the power of the Gospel to show forth. And the Gospel never disappoints us in this ministry. And I hope to make that clear to you in our conversation about your question.

Occasionally, the pastor can really get uptight when he is called to minister to a person suffering a terminal illness and particularly when the medical community has indicated that the time is short.

The pastor has these feelings: He says to himself, "Well, this is the day and this is the time. I better be effective now, if I ever was. Because I owe the dying Christian my very best. It's the last inning. There are two outs, and only a home run will do."

So the pastor gets a little uptight, as I said, about this very urgent ministry. Our word to you is "Relax, Pastor." Just relax. Come with the power of the Gospel and let the plain word of God speak for itself. We should have confidence in that word.

With a word Jesus held Satan at bay. Death is the

last enemy, an instrument of Satan, and the Gospel of the crucified Lord who by death overcame him who had the power of death, even Satan. And by his rising from the grave brought life and immortality to light.

By that good news, by that Gospel, we bring support for the dying Christian. And, by the way, it's support for the pastor himself as he ministers in what he perceives is a very difficult time, as indeed it is. But do not be anxious but believing. That's good counsel.

We have confidence in the power of the word at such times. I have an example in my notes -- I'm going to share it with you briefly here -- where a Christian physician found himself in a situation to minister to one of his patients, a 27-year-old young mother of two children who was dying of cancer.

And he reports that, when he was making his hospital rounds, he observed that this young woman was very frightened. And he delayed his rounds.

He sat down at her bedside. And he simply cited for her scriptures which he could bring to the fore from his memory. By the way, this accents the importance of committing some of the scriptures to memory that we talked about in confirmation class a while back in a previous presentation.

But the physician recited the scriptures. And he went on for as long as he could, almost 45 minutes. And then he observed that this young woman manifested a sense of calm.

And she even reported -- she even said to the doctor, "Thanks. That's just what I needed. I have just taken Christ as my Savior. Now I am ready to die."

Now, that little story suggests to us that what's really important in this ministry is to bring the strong words of God and His great love for us and what He has done for us in Jesus Christ and what our future can be through trust and hope and belief in our Savior.

We have a conviction in the pastoral ministry that every Christian at death's door is entitled to hear the saving name of Jesus. I hope that's your conviction as well, David.

This suggests to me that we function much more effectively with the dying when we bring some of the unvarnished Jesus conversation about Jesus as our Savior. I much prefer so-called Jesus talk over some of the very formal prepared sentences and collects and the like that are in the printed rites. We have those rites available to us in our resources for ministry for the dying.

What do we want to convey to the dying person? Perhaps there are just three things here.

First of all, we want to convey that Jesus loves you

and died for you. Romans 5, verse 8. John 3:16. Secondly, that Jesus bear in his body on the tree of

the cross all of our sins. They're gone. And, thirdly, that Jesus rose again to be our living

Savior. He is our Savior now. And He will be in eternity. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. He will welcome you when God calls you to his heaven.

I suggest, David, that our ministry kind of follow those lines. I believe we're saying the essential things that are supportive and helpful to the dying Christian in his or her faith and hope at a very difficult time.

I might model this ministry just a bit with an illustration from my own parish service as a pastor.

A Christian woman in her 50s was diagnosed with a malignancy in the brain and given 4 to 6 months to live. During that time we brought her Holy Communion regularly for her and her husband in their home. Her condition worsened.

And on the day that she died, we had visited her in the morning and again in the afternoon. And she was at her home.

And that evening, attending a meeting at the church, the night custodian approached the door of our boardroom about 10:30 p.m. and indicated there was a phone call waiting in the office.

And, leaving the meeting and coming to that phone, the plea from this home of this lady was that she was something in a state of hysteria. And she was crying out, "I'm sick. I'm so sick. I don't want to die. Help me. Help me. Someone please help me."

Immediately, we went to her home in the near neighborhood. And arriving there three grown children and several grandchildren moving about in the house, all in stages of grief and helplessness.

And "Come with me to your mother's room." We gathered in the bedroom, sat down next to this lady. Her name was Betty. By now she was blind. The advancing malignancy had robbed her of her sight.

I patted the lady on her arm and said, "Betty, I'm Pastor Warneck. And we are all here with you -- Gus and Carol, John and Bill. And Jesus is here too. Listen. Jesus has some good things to say to us. He says, 'I am the good shepherd. I lay down my life for the sheep. And I give unto them eternal life.'

"Betty, one of your favorite verses is 'The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want.' Jesus, our good shepherd, died on the cross, took away all of our sins. And he said, 'I go to heaven to prepare a place for you.' Surely these words help us now.

"And, remember another favorite passage, 'God so loved the world, He gave his only son. Whoever believes in Him will

not perish but have eternal life.' Betty, we know Jesus. We believe on Him. And His gift of eternal life and peace is ours. Shall we pray."

This dying lady became calm. And I attribute that to the power of the Gospel, the word of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

A few hours later that night the Lord took her to himself in heaven. And what I want to emphasize here is the plain Jesus talk, if you will, the talk that conveys clearly and plainly Jesus and all that He's done for us as our Savior. With the plea to believe on Him, that is a sound preparation of the Christian for their last moments here on earth.

Now, there's a related concern that we might address here. And perhaps it has come up in your experience, David, with persons who are diagnosed with a terminal illness.

Some of the anxiety that they're dealing with goes something like this: "Oh, my goodness. The doctor's only given me a few months. How am I going to stand up when those months are at an end? Things are going to get real tough, and am I going to keep my faith to the end?" Conscientious Christian thinks about those things.

The question can come up in another setting when relatives reflect on a member of their family who went through a terminal illness and finally died. The question is: Did she -- did Mother, when she died, having gone through all of that pain and all of that difficulty, did she keep the faith? Did she believe?

These anxious questions the Lord takes care of, David. And we need to assure our people of this. We suggest to them the bold promises of God.

In I Peter 1:5 the apostle exclaims, "Who are kept through the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time!"

Note, the Christian is kept, not by his or her own strength or that of others, but by the power of God. That's a firm promise from our Lord through his apostle.

And you know how St. Paul put it: "Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." Philippians 1, verse 6.

So, again, it is He, not us, who will perform that work which He has begun. And He will keep us in the faith and bring that faith to fruition in glory at the day of the Lord's appearing.

And then, you know, you only have to add these strong words, the confidence of the apostle Paul, when he was nearing death. Probably martyrdom in Rome. Remember what he said.

"The Lord will rescue me from every evil and save me

for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen." That's how St. Paul put it. And, David, we're going to leave it right there. Sound preparation for those who are anxious over our end time whenever it comes.



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>> NICK: As long as we're talking about this, I want to ask a very important question.

Medical practice and contemporary science have given rise to an enormous number of possibilities with regards to how to manage end-of-life issues. Now we find ourselves struggling with living wills, advanced directives, whether to cease life support for a parent in the ICU, et cetera.

What principles assist the pastor to give sound guidance to patients and their families facing crucial decisions at life's end?

>> DR. WARNECK: Nick, I'm glad that you put a rather challenging question in terms of the principles with which we want to work in giving counsel and reflecting with our people about end-of-life care issues. The principles.

Things are moving so fast, and the medical profession and all of its auxiliaries are seemingly in such control of this whole matter that a pastor might conclude well, I really don't have to give a lot of attention to that because all those things are happening and decisions are made and I really won't be consulted.

I want you to understand, Nick, many Christian people want to check in with their pastor when they are making decisions, crucial decisions about the care of a seriously ill, critically ill, or critically injured member of their family.

Or they may want to consult the pastor in the

development of a living will, a matter which has been highly emphasized since the Terry Schiavo incident in Florida in spring of 2005.

Christian people may come to you and ask, "How should I word a living will?" In other words, what directives should I give those who are responsible for my care if I find myself in a position where I'm not able to make those decisions myself, those who have power of attorney or doctors and specialists in hospitals and so on. Now, what kind of guidance should I give?

So on these two counts, the pastor will likely be consulted now and then by their people.

A Christian person does not want to wrest from the hands of God his or her own life in these extreme circumstances. A Christian believes what the psalmist declares, "Our times are in Thy hand," in the Lord's hands. Psalm 31.

Surely it is God our father who has created us we always want to acknowledge. We confess in the creed, and we want to be responsible in the care and disposition of this life. We work all the work of God's hands. And He is the creator of all things. Revelation 4.

That God is the author and creator of human life is well to remember with respect when these issues surface in the lives of God's people.

Helping us to discover those principles guiding our counsel to the parishioner is the February 1993 CTCR report, "Christian Care at Life's End." I want to refer you to that document, Nick. Particularly, it is worth careful study on this issue.

And the value of this report from the CTCR is that it enunciates basic guiding principles that will help us give the guidance that people seek from us. The applications follow the principles.

But first those principles. It goes like this: In making healthcare decisions, we do care for life, means hydration, nutrients or food, oxygen, possibly also pain relief and even helpful medical care.

We do not support killing, hastening to death, being quick to kill. Secondly, on the negative side, we do not, by contrast, support delay of imminent death by radical intervention keeping body parts alive.

So the essential principle operative here is we aim at life and we care for life; we do not aim at death nor kill.

To put it another way: Christian ethics demand that we care for life and protect life. Though we shall not place roadblocks in the way of a person who clearly is dying, whose vital systems are shutting down -- circulatory, respiratory renal or excretory, nervous systems. When all of that is going down, the

person is, as some physicians put it, in their death work. And we do not intervene radically in that process.

So those are the basic principles stated so clearly by the document, "Christian Care at Life's End." And I commend them to you for further and additional studies.

What the principles seem to say is that we owe it to the very sick and critically ill person to see that he or she receives all the help that the patient can obtain and undergo without imposing excessive burdens on himself, herself, or even others. The document calls this ordinary care, and it's certainly required by Christian ethics.

When medical treatment or procedures, the good effects of the same are not deemed proportionate to the difficulty and inconvenience involved, such is not required by Christian ethics.

Now I'm saying a lot in very few words, and this is something well to study in greater depth on one's own and perhaps with the help of mentors and so on. Ordinary care, Christian ethics requires. Extraordinary care, my last reference to those extraordinary means is not necessarily required by Christian ethics. So we are weighing in the balance here the good effect of treatment versus the difficulty or inconvenience involved, that is, protracted, complicated, intensified, suffering, and prolonging of dying. We would not want to put a patient through those straits. We want to avoid that.

We understand that these circumstances may mean medical care to a point, but foregoing some of the overpowering and overwhelming science and technology that is out there.

But those are real decisions which doctors must make and must assist the family to make in their walking with their physicians. Our point is that we want to help our families not -- basic point is not to aim for the death of an individual, what is called euthanasia, a euphemism to be sure.

The acute question since the Terry Schiavo incident is to what extent food and hydration should be available to a person as had he are described in a permanent vegetative state. I'm not certain that this is the forum to discuss these very delicate and complicated issues. But maybe we should just reserve a few words on this subject.

Having gone through this time and trying to stay abreast of what was happening there in Florida early in spring of 2005, it just seemed that many in the public media were not able to distinguish between medical care and the administration of food and water, possibly also oxygen.

Please understand that medical care is a judgment that the physicians make. But, relative to food and hydration, if

those are removed from a patient, that's not really in the realm of medical care. That's just basic life support. Medical care can be adjusted. But removing food and water from a patient, that patient will surely die, as the whole nation witnessed in the Terry Schiavo incident.

And that is something which Christian ethics opposes. And we have to help Christians in their thinking on this point.

I suppose the only exception, at least in my own limited medical knowledge, would be when the administration of food and water would create a burden of extreme suffering for a patient, for instance who has kidney failure. It's the one instance I can think of. Because, when the body cannot handle the body's wastes and deal with that, the upshot is that continuous application of food and water results in uremic poisoning, which is a very, very difficult thing to impose on a patient.

But really should not go any farther beyond our own knowledge of the medical aspects here.

It's our intention here to urge you to counsel people to support the life that is still there and leave the taking of life in the Lord's hands according to the principles. Maybe we better kind of stay with the principles. All right.

There is one subject here that pastors will confront. And that is when families are not together on decisions which they have to make relative to a critically ill or critically injured member of their family. Occasionally, pastors get in the middle of these things, these matters.

And you find yourself, Nick, in the middle of a conflict. You can have one side of the family in favor of making one decision and another part of the family wanting to take a different tact and make a different decision.

Families will not always agree. And just because they do not agree does not mean that always that one is right and the other wrong and vice versa when decisions are not clear and when the situation is such that it's very difficult for any member of a loving family to arrive at that firm decision.

Nevertheless, the family has to decide, and they do. And a course of action is taken.

But our ministry to these folks after these delicate and stressful situations is to say to all of them that we tried our best in our intentional care for our loved one. Possibly even some of our attempts were in error or askew. That may or may not be the case. But, whether we were right or wrong, God's word witnesses that our righteousness comes from Christ. And we want to leave things right there.

It's entirely by His grace that we live at all times. And thanks be to God.

If you find yourself in a stressful situation such as we've described, I hope, Nick, that the end will be that you can rally these people at the foot of the cross, following a situation, an event and decision and help them go forward in their life together as fellow Christians as well as members of the same family.



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PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL & DR. RICHARD WARNECK

CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY: CAPTION FIRST, INC.P.O. BOX 1924Lombard, IL 601481-800-825-7234

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>> ERIC: I have a question about a topic that has been in the news quite prominently over the last few years and one which is likely to remain in the spotlight for sometime to come. In view of how the Bible speaks about marriage, can the church properly consider so-called "same sex" marriages? >> DR. RICHARD WARNECK. Eric, you are correct. The The issue you raise is very prominent in the news. A year ago, February 2004, Trinity United Methodist church in Kansas City decided to stop performing traditional marriage ceremonies because a church rule prohibits such services for gays and lesbians. Now, clearly this particular congregation in the Methodist denomination was putting to the test the notion of marriage as we have always comprehended it, a relationship between a man and a woman. And when they elected to shut down on heterosexual marriage in somewhat protest that their church rules forbid the same sex marriage, this tells us something. It tells us how intense these persons are and how strong this movement is.

The question before us, then: Is marriage heterosexual? The union of a man and a woman? Well, one would think so according to Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2 and then affirmed by our Lord in Matthew Chapter 19, verse 4 to 5. Our Lord speaks of no other marital relationship than the one made by the Lord God at the beginning when he created them male and female and then ordered that a man would leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and these two, the man and the woman, in this commitment, cleaving together as one flesh, are the married ones.So the two are no longer two but one in this profound relationship which God arranged according to His design and His creation. The fact that there is not even a hint of recognition of any close and intimate life except this one between a man and a woman and the fact that the church and all of society in the western world for the past two millennia have regarded the uniqueness of this one flesh union of one man and one woman, all of this speaks, we submit, against the notion of homosexual unions.We should comprehend very clearly that the Scriptures are very negative on any suggestion that persons of the same sex might be married and live in the intimate relations which God intended for the married. The sin of Sodomy is everywhere condemned in the Scriptures. Let's be very, very pointed and emphatic about that. Never is this sin condoned. Never is it tolerated among the people of God. So it is not surprising how open and pointed are the words from Leviticus which address the male population saying, "you shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." Leviticus 18, verse 22. And isn't it interesting that this severe prohibition is couched within severe censor of other perversions of the Canaanites. In the previous verse, verse 21, the Lord prohibits throwing and sacrificing children to the fire of Molech, a pagan Canaanite deity. The verse following, verse 23, is God's severe judgment upon those who engage in bestiality. Israel shall not defile themselves by any of these things but shall keep Yahweh's statutes and ordinances, less the land vomit them out when they defile it, Leviticus 18:24-28. And we might compare Chapter 20, verse 22. So, instead of suggesting rights for those who wish to engage in an intimate, same sex relationship, meaning here Sodomy, we learn that those who do such things were to be cut off from among the people, Leviticus 18:29.Repeated over again is the refrain which underscores the seriousness of these issues. Yahweh states, "I am the Lord your God." And the punishment was severe and final for those who repudiated Yahweh and insisted on freely violating his statutes and ordinances in regard to these very issues, sacrificing children to Molech, bestiality and

Sodomy. And regarding the latter, Yahweh states, "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall be put to death. Their blood is upon them." Leviticus 20, verse 13.Eric, the ancient world was host to every perversion known to the human race. And St. Paul notes how God also was witness to these things, things going on in his time, in the first Century, to a point that the Lord gave practitioners of these perversions over to their sin. Women exchanging natural relations for the unnatural. And the men likewise giving up natural relationships with women, consumed in passion for one another and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error, Romans 1:26-27.Furthermore, in 1 Corinthians Chapter 6 Versus 9, the apostle is abundantly clear. He groups homosexuals and lesbians among those who, for reason of many heinous sins, will not inherit the kingdom of God.It's interesting. The English translation, at least the Revised Standard Version, has only one word "homosexual", translating two Greek terms "malakos," meaning persons soft, voluptuous effeminate. Note the Latin equivalent terms. Sinedos (phonetic), one who practices unnatural lust, a Sodomite, and pathicos, one who submits to unnatural lust, pathic. And the second Greek term in the Corinthian text is arsenokoitas, meaning a pederast, a male homosexual, a Sodomite.I say it's interesting that the Greek text uses these two words to convey a sinful perversion and those who pursue these behaviors for get the kingdom of God. That's how the apostle puts it and that's how serious the matter is.Now, certainly we are aware that there are many, numerous arguments put forth today that attempt to destroy the meaning of the verses from Leviticus, the verses from Romans chapter 1 and the verse from I Corinthians chapter 6 which we have discussed briefly here today. One argument advanced is the argument from silence, the notion that Jesus no where condemns homosexual behavior.I have heard a radio journalist advance this argument on our KMOX radio broadcast in St. Louis. Does this argument hold water, so to speak? Is it a viable argument? Hardly. Consider when our Lord refers to sexual life whenever he speaks to this issue, it is always the heterosexual relationship which he has in mind. Also, we have cited here the texts themselves. Many of these arguments go far afield into the area of hermeneutics and interpretation. But the texts themselves are very clear. And that's where we need to stay. Arguments that would support same sex unions from the Scriptures can succeed only

by some radical hermeneutical intervention. And I believe when we look at those arguments, we will see the fallacy in them. And when we return to the clear meaning of the text and the clear statements of the texts, we are pretty well on solid ground in the position that we have taken here today.We should add that pastors are well advised in their discussion of these matters today to be guarded about statements they make regarding homosexuality and lesbianism. There are states' rights commissions and other groups, flag, for instance, parents and friends for lesbians and gaze, as well as the ACLU, the American civil liberties union who are just eager to pounce on pastors and congregations for their teaching of what the Bible says. For they want to indict that teaching as hate speech today. So we need to be cautious. And we need to be aware of the strong opposition to what the Bible teaches on this subject.Reactions, however radical and forceful to a point of bullying the church will never change the divine word of the living God judging Sodomy and unnatural relations among persons of the same sex to be an abomination. In answer to your question, Eric, I just felt it important to be very lucid and very forthright on the basis of what the Scriptures actually teach and actually say from the texts themselves. Now, Eric, it is possible -- and it's very probable -- that you and your colleagues in the pastoral ministry will have, in your congregations, persons who are homosexuals and lesbians. Certainly it is not for us as pastors to be judgmental. Pastors will refrain from making all kinds of explorations into the complexities of sexual orientation and sexual life. We refrain from all of that. However, a pastor will care for these persons as faithfully as he cares for others. As faithfully as he ministers to heterosexual persons. Pastors will counsel these persons to cultivate social relations and to avoid intimate -- and may I say, I'll just spell it out, as it's spelled out in other pieces of our literature -- avoid the genitally sexual relationships with members of the same sex. Avoid that behavior and stay away from it and desist from it. And pastors will caution their Christians in the congregation of this orientation along those lines just as surely as they caution heterosexual persons to flee and avoid fornication and adultery and all manner of uncleanness.So as pastors, we certainly want to extend our pastoral care and our counsel to persons of homosexual or lesbian orientation just as surely as others in the congregation and be as helpful and supporting of their Christian life and to help them do the right thing in their day-to-day life.

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>> ERIC: Thank you for that answer. I realize that I probably should have asked a more basic question first. How should a pastor minister to persons who identify themselves as either homosexual or lesbian? In several of our courses, the concept of proper application of law and Gospel when ministering has been discussed. Is this a time for law or for Gospel? How can we help these individuals?>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: Eric, your followup question is right on. We spoke a moment ago in general terms about how a pastor ministers to persons of the orientation of homosexual or lesbian, but you're raising the more precise question: Do we minister in terms of the law or in terms of the Gospel? Let's say, once again, that the pastor may not be able to comprehend all of the complexities in this matter of sexual orientation. Whether or not a pastor counsels a homosexual person toward a change in his sexual orientation with the help of therapies, one kind or another, will be a matter for the pastor to decide and to determine.The pastor's primary concern, however, is how these persons shall live chaste and decent lives in all purity. The pastor counsels these persons to live social but celibate lives sexually. Anything less may place such persons under the severe judgment of God as we have

discussed earlier. Sodomy and the pursuit of unnatural lust is an abomination to the Lord. So our concern is to help these persons lead a life that is chaste and pure and to do the right thing.If and when persons in our care have fallen into sexual sin, whether they be heterosexual or homosexual, that confession of sin in sincere repentance is of utmost importance. And even more important is when the pastor has opportunity, he speaks the Gospel to that repentance.We call attention to the predominance of the Gospel when the Bible addresses such sins. We may have given the impression in our previous discussion that God's response to sins of this nature is all judgment. We want to emphasize that God also speaks the Gospel to the penitent. And that's very clear. Already, there in Leviticus, in Leviticus 18, verses 2 to 5, the Lord asks Moses to speak to the people and to command them not to do as unbelievers in Egypt did from the place from which they came, nor as the pagans in the land of Canaan do, the place to which the Israelites are going. They should keep Yahweh's ordinances and statutes and walk in them. "I am the Lord your God." but these exhortations, Eric, should be viewed if the larger light and scope of the Gospel of God's great love shown to Israel.In Deuteronomy Chapter 7, versus 6 to 11, a beautiful passage, the Lord is speaking through Moses, and he reminds the people that they did not become His people, God's people, on their own; rather, He loved them, He chose them, and He promised to bless them.This passage in Deuteronomy 7 is one of the most beautiful Gospel passages in the Old Testament. And it's a compliment to those severe exhortations and even judgments spoken from the vantage of the law. So we want to call attention to the speaking of the Gospel in this instance already back when the Lord revealed His word to his people and His will through Moses.In New Testament, St. Paul, also very severe in judgment upon the unrighteous, and he said it very clearly, unmistakably, in I Corinthians 6, people who pursue these heinous modes of behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God. The immoral, the adulterers, the idolaters, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers, these will not inherit the kingdom.And then the apostle ex claims, "and such were some of you." he has reference to the fact that the Corinthians, prior to their conversion, were part of that same culture, if you will. Yet in the same breath, and this is so noteworthy, in the same breath, the apostle hurries to add, "but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God."

that's 1 Corinthians 6, verse 11. That follows very close upon the heels of verse 9. How beautiful the Gospel simply towers over all.And in Galatians 5, following the apostle's severe words when he marks the ugliness of the fruits of the flesh and he warns his readers that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God, he quickly turns to the Gospel. Here is how he puts it. "those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." So speaking the Gospel to persons who are troubled over sexual sins, this is the high calling of the Lutheran pastoral ministry.And I want to emphasize, Eric, that this is a marvelous gift we have in the Lutheran church and in the Lutheran ministry, that pastors are oriented in such a way in their ministry to speak the Gospel of Christ that delivers from the bondage of sin and the guilt of sin and sets people again on the right path. And I want to say that this particular mark of our Lutheran pastoral ministry is certainly in contrast to other pastoral approaches of which we are aware within Christiandom which tend to encounter sin only with more laws and more commandments and more rules. The Lutheran pastor ministers with the Gospel to persons who need that love of God and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ.



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>> ERIC: One more question along these lines if you are willing to bear with me. If a congregation member shares with me in confidence as his pastor that he feels himself to be homosexual; that is, he experiences urgent homosexual desires, but then he adds that he has never acted upon a temptation toward homosexual behavior, am I to regard him as homosexual or not? I am woefully unprepared by experience or formal learning to handle such matters. Your insights will be so very much appreciated.?

>> DR. WARNECK: Eric, that kind of question and situation you may expect will be posed for you as a pastor and for your colleagues in the pastoral ministry in preparing for the pastoral office. How can we be prepared to respond to a person who confides in us very personally their sexual orientation? And in this instance, so to speak, "coming out" and disclosing to us that which perhaps is not known by the rest of the congregation or, for that matter, sometimes a person will come to their pastor and reveal a sexual orientation that their family does not even know and the family is not even aware. So you're asking about a very real situation.

First, as the question indicates, the pastor will want to receive this information and this disclosure in strictest confidence. The person is coming to the pastor with that understanding. And that is our calling when we minister to our people, to keep such things that they reveal and disclose

to us in strictest confidence.I suppose, then, when a person such as this is looking for guidance

in their life as to how to handle their sexual orientation, we would revert back to some of the principles that we shared in an earlier discussion and urge a Christian in this mode or this disposition to keep themselves pure. I think the apostle's exhortation there just about covers the waterfront. And to encourage the individual to live a chaste and decent life as a Christian and to refrain from temptations or yielding to temptation, which is everywhere, to involve themselves in actual homosexual behavior. We want to spare them of that. And so we would gently and patiently counsel them to remain, as we said in the last -- in a previous discussion -- remain simply sell e bat with regard to sexual behavior. And as difficult as that may be, that has to be our counsel to them. Lest they fall into a terrible and horrible patterns of life which the Lord has said in his Word he just will not countenance. And persons who risk, for the heterosexual a promiscuous life in fornication or for the homosexual person a relationship that involves them in illicit, intimate relations, the Lord is very clear. We can be so overtaken in those lifestyles that we forfeit the kingdom of God. And we want to prezer many a person from those horrible pitfalls.

So I think your encouragement, Eric, to a person who came to you as you describe would be along the lines of living out of their baptism as a Christian and as a new person in Jesus Christ, we're not the same person bound to the sins of the flesh in baptism we're delivered and raised above all of that as the apostle teaches Romans 6 in his discussion following his great statements about baptism unto the death and resurrection of our Lord. There's a new life here. And that's their life now.

And then direct them to lead a life of purity as we have stated and emphasized again.

I hesitate to say a lot more about the counsel that a pastor might give. You could direct persons of this kind to others who are struggling with the same issues possibly, to other Christians who are attempting to lead a chaste and decent life, yeah, that would be a possibility. And as I said in the previous discussion, whether you raise the issue of pursuing therapies for these individuals would be a judgment call. But your primary pastoral responsibility and care for the person is to help them live out of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



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>> Have we come to a point that the church may view favorably cohabitation as a relationship akin to marriage? I have a member of my church who I believe to be living with someone with whom he is not married but to whom he seems very committed. I would like your advice about how I should approach such an individual with pastoral care.>> David, how very common is the situation that you describe, the person who comes to you -- or the person that you suspect in your fellowship who may be living together with another partner outside of marriage. And as Christian pastors, we want to help these persons maybe make some adjustments and corrections in their life because in this whole area of sexual life and marriage and the like, a pastor's primary concern is that he helps his people do the right thing. I'm a firm believer in that, that if a pastor can be useful in guiding and shepherding a person into corrected and right behaviors, we are serving our people very well.I was reminded of that by a lady who came following worship services and the theme of the service or the theme of the sermon had been along the lines of speaking about our salvation and about how a Christian who dies in the Lord can anticipate going to Heaven. It was that kind of a Sunday and that kind of a message. And the lady said to me as she came by, "Well, Pastor, it isn't dying that I'm concerned about. Pastor, it's living that is my chief concern." And she was telling us that Christian people are having a struggle living the Christian life according to the way in which God would have us live. And I believe that's coming through in your question today, David.I'd like to make a reference on the trends -- to the trends that we see happening along the very lines that your question takes. The 2000 U.S. census report cited a 71 percent increase of live-in, nonmarrieds over the previous decade and that 48 percent of heterosexual couples are in live-in relationships or arrangements, which we otherwise know and name cohabitation.

A decade ago, David Easton, a vicar in the Anglican church, reported that 56 percent of couples in Great Britain were living together before their wedding. This was a concern to Easton because he was troubled over what circumstances he should make available the rite of marriage to persons who have already taken liberties long before they come for marriage. He is speaking about live-in couples.So the live-in arrangement outside of marriage is growing and it is growing to a point that society is becoming quite insensitive to the whole matter and even Christian parents and grandparents view this life of the young as -- well, they point to it rather casually and they say well there's worse sins. So this whole matter is proliferating and even in the church we seem to become less sensitive to it. And it certainly is a topic that we need to address here in our discussions.Now, on the surface, the church probably has to say about live-in arrangements outside of marriage that this looks like fornication, what the Bible calls important nay an, immorality, illicit sexual relations. And if it be that, then we are facing the rather severe judgment of Yahweh in the Old Testament where it is clear in passages like Deuteronomy chapter 22, verses 20 to 21, that there was no tolerance, zero tolerance, for a man and a woman living the intimate life together outside of marriage. It was a lifestyle not to be compared with marriage at all.And, yet, that's the trend in our current society. The suggestion is made frequently that "well, what's the difference? Cohabitation is just as honorable, just as noble as marriage."When people come with those kinds of notions, how do we address them? How is cohabitation and marriage, how do they stand alongside of each other? Is there any favorable comparison? Are there likenesses or are there distinctive contrasts which pastors need to take note of with their people?Let's pursue that just a moment. Let us put some hard questions to cohabitation. Let's begin there. Here are a couple of things that pastors can bring up and invite cohabiting couples to think about.Number one: Is the live-in relationship going anywhere? Does it build on a well-thought plan? Can it sustain dreams for a beautiful long life together? We are surprised at how tentative many of these relationships are and how they fall short on this first question.But a second question: Is there tangible support for the relationship? Finances, money, house, food, clothing, healthcare, insurance? Are these things in place? Many times we'll discover that these factors are not addressed at least very clearly by persons who are simply living together.Number three: Can the relationship survive hard knocks? Can a fragile, and in some cases, as we said, a very tentative union "take it," so to speak. Is there enduring built on commitment for the relationship to make it through difficult times? Or is there a tacit understanding that in the event the relationship falls under pressures of one kind or another, either or both parties can walk away and simply call it quits?

Well, one additional question. A fourth question. Is God in this relationship? Does the live-in relationship have any likeness to his plan? If it really is no different than marriage, as many are claiming, are God's purposes for marriage evident in cohabitation? Can it be said, as we say of marriage, that this is a "gift from God"? Is this thing honorable in the eyes of God? Particularly in the light of Hebrews chapter 13 verse 4.So, I am suggesting, David, that pastors come to grips with the issue when it's presented to them and put some really hard questions to any couple who is overly comfortable in their live-in relationship and seeking the approval or tacit approval and blessing of the church upon this irregular life they are pursuing.Herbert Friedman, Lutheran Church of Australia theologian, perhaps makes the most objective assessment of cohabitation in any of the literature that I have had opportunity to peruse. Friedman addresses the suggestion that cohabitation is just as viable in God's eyes as marriage and he does this as fairly as any I have seen. In an article titled "what is marriage today? Problems and perspectives" Friedman ventures to say that cohabiting relationships may be tantamount to what we know as Biblical marriage; that is, the marks of partnership and commitment, forgiveness, even fidelity, constancy and permanency may be inherent in cohabitation.Boy, it sounds like we have an enemy within the camp, so to speak. Here I've been suggesting that the church and its teachings and its position is hard set against this alternate lifestyle, and here we find a theologian within our own midst who seems to be very welcoming of the notion that there are such similarities, why make great to do about the whole issue?Well, stopping short of endorsement of cohabitation, this Australian Lutheran theologian takes a very abrupt turn in his discussion. And we should note some of his points. He notes, first of all, that his greatest fear about the cohabitation relationship is that it does not provide sufficient protection for the weaker partner, protection that is there in God's order of creation.The next point Friedman makes is related. He asks, "how does cohabiting provide a context for children? And should the cohabiting partners conveniently ignore procreation, their relationship really would be a distortion of the one of the major divine intentions for marriage as we learn from the Word of God.He means that on this count alone, cohabitation really distances itself from any likeness to marriage.Friedman also notes that the open-ended nature of the cohabiting relationship allows for problems and conflicts to simply be side stepped. Also, there is less than an adequate basis for crisis management.And, finally, Friedman puts cohabitation to a litmus test. He says "if the cohabiting relationship be regarded as another "form" of marriage, as many are want to do, then the prohibitions attached to marriage in the area of adultery and divorce must apply also. The question is: Are cohabiting partners willing to submit to those very prohibitions?"

And the answer, in many cases, David is that when it comes to this comparison with the requirements in marriage relative to fidelity and faithfulness, come what may, the cohabiting, live-in relationship frequently falters. That will probably be your experience as it has been the experience of myself and men like Dr. Senkbeil, as well, in the years of our pastoral ministry.Now, it is a fair and quite impartial comparison and assessment that the Australian Lutheran theologian has made. I suggest that we need to do more than to make that kind of a comparison. What needs to happen in our ministry is to carefully and rather comprehensively describe for cohabiting partners what marriage is really all about. We sometimes want to define marriage. When we turn to the Scriptures, it's very difficult to find chapter and verse and define precisely the marital relationship as it was designed and intended by God. But there is ample material in both Old and New Testament for us to describe marriage in such a way that it becomes pretty clear that there are numerous distinctions between marriage and the perception of live-in relationships.Marriage, according to the Scriptures, is God's creation. He made this life. He made the man and the woman and he brought them together and placed them in this life, close, intimate oneness. And it's his design.Marriage, furthermore, is accompanied by commitment. Love, honor, care and support. Physically, emotionally, spiritually. These are all parameters of Christian marriage, as you know. One may focus on the Biblical teaching in Genesis 2:24. We'll cite the passage. Therefore a man leaves father and mother and cleaves to his wife and they become one flesh. They become one in that commitment, one in that love, one in that honor, one in that respect, and one in that determination that they will live together come what may until death does them part. That marvelous and very deep and rich oneness about which the Scriptures speak.Now, Vicar David Easton, in the article that I referenced earlier in our discussion, sees this mutual consent and commitment in a rather instructive way. He writes, "marriage" -- now he's speaking about the passage in Genesis 1, verse 24, the passage we just cited and emphasized, he writes "marriage is first exclusive: A man, his wife. Secondly, publicly recognized. A man will leave his father and mother. Thirdly, permanent. United to his wife. And, fourthly, consummated by sexual intercourse. They will become one flesh."The question is: How does cohabitation, of all things, fit into this scheme? David, it really doesn't. It just doesn't add up. David Easton stresses furthermore that consummation in sexual relations does not in itself make the marriage, rather, it is the proper consequence of that consent without with there can be no true marriage. Here is how he defines it. He makes this statement. "it is the private gratification of a commitment publicly made." quote, end of quote. A private ratification of a commitment publicly made. It is the commitment which a man and a woman make before witnesses to remain faithful to one another, both as sexual partners and in mutual support until death does them part, which makes a marriage.

We want to stress that frequently people who advocate cohabitation are really pretty self-contained. They are stressing a private relationship. In fact, they can come on very strong. And they will express sentiments like this. "look, Pastor and church, this is our life. And we have every right to determine and design our life the way we wish." that kind of an approach and those sentiments are a red flag. We want to underscore what was latent or tacit in David Easton's very fine remarks a few moments ago. Whereas cohabitation is a private arrangement, admittedly with no legal standing, marriage is a public declaration which has the backing of the law. And then we want to underscore that marriage is very much a relationship within the community and within the society. Those are some of the things that a marriage license signifies. And we can be very flippant about marriage licenses and so on as some of these couples are. But the license simply signifies that here is a relationship between a man and a woman recognized by community and by society.David Easton has a citation from the 20th Century German dogmatician Emil Brunner on this point. And Brunner has some interesting things to say. And I quote him here. "The purely individualistic view of marriage involves a complete misunderstanding of the public and legal aspect of marriage. The severance of marriage from the system of law and custom is wholly wrong. Marriage, sex relations in general, is a matter which concerns not merely two interested parties themselves but the community as a whole."And that is the way it was historically, David. For instance, when we leaf back to the Old Testament, Abraham, as early as the patriarch Abraham, he is seeking and finding a wife for his son Isaac within larger family and larger community. And when the two agree to come together, Isaac and Rebecca, there is great celebration and affirmation and support and acknowledgment from the community.Leafing ahead a bit in the book of Ruth, you remember the story of how Boaz took Ruth to be his wife and how the elders of the village gave their approval and the people at large, both witnessing and approving of this couple coming together and living, then, as marrieds. The community was very much involved.And so, once again, however people want to spoof a marriage license, that license is a legal document and it attests to the communal witness and recognition that a man and a woman have made a commitment to be and remain husband and wife, a commitment that is both private and social or public and certainly a building block of society.But you are interested, David, in the issue of how a pastor ministers to persons who present themselves as cohabiting in a live-in relationship. How do these persons come to you? Come to the pastor? They may come to the pastor very defensive of their relationship and intend to continue in it just as it is and have no intentions of marrying. Well, in that instance, the pastor might be well advised in his counsel to suggest that in the eyes of the Lord, according to his word, they may just be living in sin. They may be living in fornication. Maybe that has to be suggested to such a couple. And if one or both of them are Christians, they have to

be sensitive to that. If they are entirely insensitive, perhaps the pastor needs to remind them that their live-in life together is something that can be very offensive among other Christians in the congregation, particularly the young. The preteenagers, the young boys and girls who are just arriving on puberty and entering the teen years when they know that a person in their congregation a few years older, albeit, is living with another party outside of marriage, what does this say to the young? It's a terrible scandalon. It certainly doesn't model for the young the life that the young should aspire to. Not at all. So perhaps a couple needs to be counselled along these lines.Now, frequently persons who are living in together in a sharing bed and board will come to the pastor and they want to be married. Pastors advisedly want to help these couples instead of hindering them. I don't know whether you have heard, David, but I hear occasionally of a pastoral practice that I think is rather severe on these persons who want to correct things in their life. And sometimes we place all kinds of hurdles that they have to jump over first before we're going to agree to marry them in the church and so on. I wonder about that. Any Christian person who wants to get his or her life straightened out and corrected, the pastor should be wanting to assist them with every resource at his disposal. Certainly if they're living in sin, we want to encounter that with them. We want them to confess that sin and we want to be able, at least in the counselling situation, to speak the absolution and the forgiveness of sin in Jesus Christ. But then we want them to move on. And we want to make those arrangements with them. We will be asking that if they want to be married at a much later date, say six months down the calendar, we will ask them to separate residences to let it be known that they comprehend the beautiful life of marriage towards which they are heading and they're not going to erode that beautiful life by continuing in fornication. We'll ask them to separate residences and frequently they will agree to that.If not and they don't want to agree to that arrangement, maybe the pastor has to just move the wedding date up and say all right, you're living together, you want to marry, let's set a date next Saturday. Let's do it. Or at longest, two weeks from now. And get the couple married.I'm aware that such a procedure may be questioned by pastors who say, "well, just because a couple wants to get married doesn't mean they are good marriage partners and they need to explore that first through very much indepth counselling." well, I don't know, David. Don't you think if people have been living together for six months or a year or whatever that maybe it's time for them to get married without much ado? I kind of think so. At least that's the opinion of one pastor standing here. But these are things that you can weigh and consider.The important thing is that we want to help couples to really partake of the lovely and beautiful thing that marriage is and do everything in the power of our resources to move them in that direction.

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>> DAVID: Right now I'm deeply involved with leading my high school youth group. Conversations about sex and chastity are very common. And, frankly, a wee bit uncomfortable for me. How may the church encourage the young to remain pure and point themselves toward marriage? What do I say to my youth? How do I help them?>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: David, a place to start would be where you are as you ask your question. The church needs to simply say to our young Christians that our whole sexuality as God framed it and intended it to be is always pointed toward marriage. And it is a precious gift from Him for us to protect and preserve, somewhat, if you will, until the appropriate time when the Lord provides a lifetime partner in marriage, then this marvelous gift and the great powers of our sexuality really kick in toward the fulfillment of our marriage partner and our mutual fulfillment in that relationship. The church simply needs to say this to the young.There are so many voices out in the culture speaking to our youth to the contrary. This is very well known. What is less known or heard less frequently even by

young Christians in the church is the emphasis that God has given us this gift for marriage. We need to say that more frequently, underscore it. We don't have to become hacks over it, not at all. But the young people need to hear occasionally that kind of counsel and direction.It's an uphill battle in the culture in which we live, as we indicated, where sexuality is simply viewed in terms of immediate gratification and passion, quite apart from marriage and even more distant from the notion of procreation. The proper teaching will help young Christians to think about their maleness and their femaleness toward a future marriage partner. Isolating all of their thinking and action in the singular direction pointed toward marriage. Whatever is separating sex from marriage in the culture, Christian youth will avoid. To the end of keeping themselves pure in order to present a wholesome, pure and attractive person to their beloved later in their mature adult years, the church may consider adopting an abstinence program for their youth. These are programs which help young people, particularly in Christian settings, to muster the will and will power, with the grace of God, to respect God's creation of them as they are and the powerful gift of sex and to be good stewards of that great power, always heading toward marriage.To keep themselves pure as the apostle exhorts, and we've referenced that exhortation from St. Paul numerous times in these discussions, we await a distinctively Lutheran program which approaches this area of sanctification that arises out of our life as we are justified by grace through faith in Christ and stemming from our baptism, I say a good sound Lutheran program. Some Lutheran congregations and youth ministries have adapted programs from other sources. Frequently, these other programs are decidedly law-oriented and they come down very hard on the exhortations and the commandments in the Scriptures to avoid fornication and lead a chaste and decent life, but they lack the power of the Gospel, which is the accent which a Lutheran ministry can bring so effectively.So I would encourage you and maybe some of your partners in the ministry to do a little spade work in this area. See if you can't come up with a program that would encourage abstinence among our youth in the proper spirit of the Gospel and the whole notion of heading these young people toward marriage.Now, what else can we do in the church to help our young people in this area? I believe that the church is the place where children and children becoming teenagers and teenagers themselves should be able to see modeled for them sound marriages and beautiful families where husband and wife love and respect and honor each other, where children and parents relate to one another in love, honor and respect and vice versa, children to parents.We used to make light of some of the fellowship groups in our Lutheran congregations, like these were largely a waste of time. I'm speaking about some of the suppers and occasions when congregations would get together for recreation, picnics, church picnics and that sort of thing. And I recall how in the perception of busy pastors that these events were somewhat negligible.

I've had some second thoughts about that. And perhaps you might share them, David. Now, let's just think. We have a group of Christians in a culture. The larger culture, growing more and more secular in its outlook, enforced by the powerful technology very focused in the media and the whole secular view holding stage front and center in the media pressing upon the young particularly lifestyles and values quite contra distinct to the very values we've been speaking about here in our very discussion. Isn't it, therefore, the more paramount and the more important that our children and youth have an opportunity in leal life, not in virtual reality but in real life, to see modeled for them how a man and a woman really love each other in the marital relationship? How they love and care for their children and how their children are happy and blessed to have those kinds of parents?There are many youth and many children just at sea today and we find some of them in our congregations. And whenever the church can come together for some of these otherwise negligible occasions, the suppers and the dinners and the projects that they work on together, the picnics that they attend and the young can see Christians in active life together, I just think this is a powerful force and it's one that we need to exploit a little bit more in order to keep our kids focused not only on MTV and all that stuff but the alternative within the community of faith. If we were a little more intentional about this very ministry in our congregations as Lutheran pastors, David, I submit that we would be providing for our youth a kind of indirectly and tacitly the kind of influence that might just encourage them to see their maleness, their femaleness, their sexuality within the context of marriage, which we believe is ultimately God's good will for them and their ongoing life.

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>> JOSH: Professor Senkbeil, what are some of the legal issues involved in wedding procedures? Are there some things I need to know about the law when it comes to a wedding?>> PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL: Great question, Josh. You know, when it comes to weddings and marriages, you, as a pastor, are a minister of the Gospel in God's kingdom, the right hand. But God's kingdom the left hand is also involved, since this involves matters of the state and matters of law in terms of public order and society. And so a conscientious pastor will want to be apprised of the laws governing marriage in his state. So that would be one of the first things that you'd want to do is to explore that. You can go to your local County Clerk's office and understand what are the requirements for those who are intending to marry.Ordinarily that would include obtaining a license to marry, which certifies that the person is not already married or any previous marriages have been legally dissolved and that they're entitled to marry. There are certain laws in most states governing close relationships. For example, most states would not allow cousins to marry even though Holy Scripture seems to indicate that that's possible. Now, in a case like that, a pastor would, of course, go by the laws of the land, the laws of the state in which he resides and we would then defer to these governing authorities.

In some cases, of course, in current contexts, marriages are proposed between people who really ought not to be married, in the case of gays, for example, homosexuals, and so we are not going to obey those kinds of laws but, rather, the higher law of God's own word.But directly to your question, one would want to understand that the couple coming to you for marriage is indeed entitled to marry, that they have the proper license for such a marriage, and then that once that marriage is conducted, the ceremony is completed, that you know how to file the appropriate documents with the legal authorities, ordinarily the clerk of the court's office and the local courthouse.So these are some of the issues that you'd want to be aware of when it comes to legal matters and weddings. It would be important that you'd know the proper procedures of filing these documents so that that wedding is properly recorded. Ordinarily, there would also be a copy of that certificate that you would, at that time of the wedding, give to the couple. My practice always was to give it to the best man, because the couple themselves have a lot to think about on that day.I hope this helps.

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>> ERIC: Should a pastor ever refuse to conduct a wedding? What about when the couple has been living together, for instance? Or, what if one member of the couple is not a Christian? >> PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL: Eric, you've raised some very important questions. And I think the place to begin with the questions you've asked is to remind yourself that a pastor is under no obligation to marry anyone and everyone that happens to come to him for a wedding. Rather, your primary responsibility is to the members of your parish. Certainly it's true that in the days in which we live, a lot of people don't turn to the church for anything until it comes the these important occasions, such as a wedding or a death. We don't want to shrink from that opportunity. It indeed becomes an opportunity for evangelism and outreach.

But even so, it's important that couples who come to you understand that marriage is a divine institution. It's not to be entered into inadvisably or lightly as our marriage rite says and so therefore you want to teach regarding what marriage is in a Christian context and you want it indeed to be a Christian wedding, which brings me to the last question you asked.What about marriages between Christians and non-Christians? Certainly because marriage exists in the kingdom of the left hand in the area of the public sphere, it is certainly possible, indeed likely, that there will be Christians married to non-Christians. Now, in the early church, in Biblical times, the apostle really addresses this when he writes to the Christians in Corinth about circumstances that evidently really occurred in their midst, namely members of their congregation had been previously married to other people, of course. Some of them did not become Christians. And the issue now was: Is such a marriage a valid marriage? In first Corinthians 7 we read the following. "if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever and he consents to live with her, she shoes not divorce him. If any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her."Notice that in God's eyes, the essence of marriage is mutual consent. And if that consent is there, it is indeed a valid marriage in the sight of God and one which can indeed be blessed by the church and that there can be a marriage ceremony conducted.The circumstances, however, of being married to an unbeliever raises all kinds of problems for the Christian. In this case, in firsts Corinthians, there was a first existing marriage before the one party or the other. In that case the apostle counsels that there ought not to be a separation in that marriage. In fact, he goes on to say, in verse 16 of I Corinthians 7, "wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?"And so in those circumstances, the Christian has an obligation to witness and testify to the unbelieving party so that he or she might be brought into the faith.Now, that said, it's important that in such situations as couples come to you intending to marry an unbeliever that there would be clear discussion regarding the implications of this because, of course, a marriage is a union of husband and wife in both mind and body and spirit. And if they cannot share at the core of their marriage this common faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and the conviction of the validity and the certainty and the surety of the Word of God, they are indeed starting off on shaky ground.In certain circumstances, however, if the unbelieving party is willing and open to considering the claims of the Christian faith, indeed in many cases, I can see that you could invite such a person into your adult class immediately upon notification of this planned marriage. So this would be part and parcel of your preparation for this couple. In those kinds of situations, of course, one may indeed officiate at such a wedding. And these are the pastoral parameters that need to be included.

Now, your first question was: Should a pastor ever refuse a wedding? And one of the things we must remember is that a pastor is under no obligation to marry anybody who comes his way, as I said before. It's not that we're the local marrying Sam, as the old statement used to be, namely that person in every community who just conducts weddings for remuneration of one kind or another.Rather, we're a minister of Christ's church. And so the weddings which we conduct are for members of our congregation or enquirers into the faith who are in the process of becoming members of our congregation.There are certain circumstances that God forbids people entering into a marriage. And of course those situations we would not conduct those weddings. I've already talked about them in terms of marriages which would be strictly prohibited by God: Homosexual marriage, for example. Or also there are certain what are called laws of consanguinity, which is sharing a common blood, a close relationship by birth. Those kinds of marriages are forbidden by God and a pastor would not officiate and those kinds of weddings.You'll find those prohibitions in the 18th chapter of Leviticus and the 27th chapter of Deuteronomy. These kinds of close relationships, therefore, prohibit marriages between those parties. And that's something you'd want to be aware of.As I said earlier, sometimes the state has additional regulations, such as forbidding marriages between cousins. And that would be something you'd also want to be aware of. What are the local parameters? What do the governing authorities say regarding close relationships and marriages?

So, that's the long answer. The short answer is, yes, sometimes pastors refuse to conduct weddings, but they do so always for positive reasons, for reasons for the benefit of the couple involved and the benefit of the church and the testimony that's given to the assembly of Christians in that place.



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>> ERIC: You know, I asked the question about what to do when one member of the couple is not a Christian. But more common here are marriages between Christians of different denominations: Catholic and Lutheran, for instance. Is there something that a pastor should say in this circumstance? Can a Lutheran marriage ceremony be conducted in such a case?>> PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL: Well, Eric, it's not just in New Jersey that those kinds of things happen, but frequently, I'd say increasingly frequently all across the country, as denominational affiliations become less and less important, people seem to be looking everywhere for marriage partners. And sometimes it's not even on their radar screen as to whether that person shares their own faith.Now, that's a matter of some concern, of course. And one of the things we want to do, I think, as pastors in training our young people is in teaching them regarding, first of all what marriage is, because unfortunately it's under attack in so many ways in our 21st Century culture. But also we'd want to teach them regarding the spiritual center of marriage and the importance of faith in a Christian life in the home between husband and wife and with the children that God gives them. So this unity of faith is a very, very important matter.Now, what do we do when a couple comes to us very much in love and clearly intending to be married even though they do not share this common confession,

they are in opposing confession -- they are both Christians but they have opposing confessions of that faith? Well, I think one would want to talk to them about the importance of the centrality of Christ in the home and of a spiritual life which continues in terms of prayer in that home and devotional life and certainly continuing to be faithful to the means of grace, that is to receive the gifts of God through his Word and Sacraments in their individual churches if they intend not to join into one common confession.But I think before that happens, you'd want to encourage them also: Why don't you find out everything you can about your fiance's faith?I myself, in my pastoral ministry, always encourage couples like that to do exactly that, if at all possible, to sit in on the formal instruction that are given to adults who are intending to join that church, let's say in this case the Roman Catholic church, that both parties, the Catholic and the Lutheran party would attend that class and also by the same token, that the couple would also attend the class that I'm teaching regarding Lutheran instruction and the Lutheran faith.With the intent that there would be a thorough understanding and comprehension of where each party is and their own relationship with God and their own convictions regarding what God teaches in his word.Now, ideally the other party, in this case the Roman Catholic, would determine to join our Lutheran church. But care must be exhibited here so that we don't force that person into the faith just for the sake of keeping up with their in-laws' expectations. It should be a matter of joyful and free conviction, a whole hearted assent to the truth of the doctrine which we confess. Now let's say that the couple have done this work. They've engaged in this kind of preliminary investigation. But they have determined that for now at least they're going to maintain their individual church memberships. Can such a marriage succeed? Well, of course it can. I've seen this happen myself in my ministry. Are there going to be great factors and struggles to overcome? There surely will. And so one of the things you want to do is to prepare them to face those things. How do we manage faithful participation and attendance at church services, for example, for both of us? Perhaps it would be possible for both to attend both churches. Of course receiving Holy Communion only in that church where they are a member. And also that they would, in their own household, begin to develop a life of prayer and devotion together which they can establish already early in their marriage and that they can continue with, then, as children come into their life.Now, how is it that we conduct such weddings? It's important that you remember that a wedding ceremony is not just a perfunctory ceremony or external ritual but as we practice it in our church, it is indeed a public worship service. And so all the parameters that go into planning a public worship service also govern these marriage ceremonies. Part of that would be the fact that as a Lutheran pastor, you would be the sole officiant. In the case of a person who comes from another communion or faith, their pastor might certainly want to be a part of the occasion.

And it would be very appropriate, of course, to invite him, in some cases now her, to attend the wedding, to be a part of the congregation assembled in the pews and to offer a word of encouragement or blessing which could be done outside of the ceremony, outside of the marriage service, preferably, perhaps, a very ideal time would be at the wedding banquet and the reception. I think that's a wonderful way to handle this kind of Christian compassion toward others and Christian hospitality without compromising our principles of church fellowship.That also holds true, then, when it comes to the planning of the service. And I think maybe we'll have a chance to talk about that in detail a little bit later. But for now, just keep in mind that in planning the marriage ceremony, it's a worship service. That helps a lot. Great question, Eric.



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* * * * >> DAVID: What's the proper way to prepare a couple for marriage? How long should such preparation take? What should a pastor expected of the couple prior to marriage?>> PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL: Well, David, one of the most enjoyable things that I had to do as a parish pastor was to prepare couples for marriage. Notice I didn't say: To plan their wedding. I always made that point very clear at the beginning of our conversations as we talked about what we were going to be doing together. Yes, we'll get to the planning of the wedding. And that's usually uppermost in their minds, but I would simply kind of lay out broad parameters about that, namely, that it is a worship service and that everything we do there ought to be in accord with our church's doctrine.But I would spend the main block of time focusing on getting to know this couple very, very well, listening to them and talking to them regarding the tremendous gift that they are about to enter into in holy marriage. So, the answer to your question: How long should this preparation be? In my experience, varied widely. I would always tell couples that I expected them to meet with me a minimum of three times, probably about an hour and a half, thereabouts each time or not more than maybe six or seven times. It would be all up to them, I told them.

I wanted to do two things with every couple that was getting ready for marriage. I want to talk with them very candidly about the daily activities that go into marriage. Who is going to take out the trash, for example? How will communication be enhanced and fostered? What about finances? Have you thought about children? What are your plans in that area? How will you go about caring for them? What are the roles of the father and the mother both in the home and in regards to their children? These things need to be talked about because people have all kinds of different expectations depending upon what they saw or didn't see as they themselves were children observing their own parents. And sadly, of course, many people come to us now from broken and shattered marriages and households. There needs to be a lot of therapeutic work, I think, in helping people to understand the responsibilities and the privilege of being a husband or a wife and their mutually helpful roles, but also of very different roles of husband and wife.Now, through this, underlying it and surrounding it, I wanted, above all, to teach to this couple what God says about marriage. And so we want to look at the chief texts that govern what marriage is, the definition of marriage, and how marriage is, for example, an earthly icon of the divine relationship between Jesus and his Bride, the Church, laid out so beautifully in Ephesians chapter 5.One of the most helpful ways I discovered to provide this scriptural foundation for marriage is to look with them together at the marriage rite itself and to use those texts, those foundational texts about God's institution of marriage as the focus of our discussion. I would even provide them with a Bible study that they could take home and use to reflect on in between our sessions.Now, in order to address those other more practical daily concerns of marriage and the home, there are all kinds of tools available. You might consult your local District office for some very good resources in that area. I myself usually use the "Prepare Enrich" materials which get at so many various dimensions of daily life in the home and the mutual relationship of husband and wife. It's one of those inventories where a couple individually checks off their priorities, their opinions regarding all kinds of aspects of marriage. These are then compiled and provided to the pastor who is conducting the wedding. And that forms the basis, then, of our discussion in so many of those practical areas.So, in other words, they're kind of a two-pronged attack. First and foremost and always, a teaching, as God's man for this couple, as a teacher of the church, you want to teach this couple what it means to be husband and wife on the basis of Scripture. And then, secondly, you want to also equip them for the long haul, how they will grow into these roles, these new and wonderful roles of being husband and wife to each other. So I think those are some things to keep in mind when it comes to wedding preparation. Remember, it's a marriage preparation.



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>> With all our cultural diversity here in Los Angeles, I find a lot of people have different expectations when it comes to what a wedding should be like. How do I work with a couple to plan and conduct a wedding that is meaningful to them and, yet, in harmony with Lutheran doctrine and practice?>> Well, Nick, of course there are all kinds of wedding ceremonies these days that one observes. And it seems like wedding practices are all over the map in our diverse culture. There are, of course, governing principles and boundaries that govern a Lutheran wedding. And we'll talk about those. But first it might be said that a conscientious pastor will of course be sensitive to the needs and concerns of the couple that come to him and the expectations of their families and their community. So the kinds of things that happen in wedding ceremonies, in your situation, in your area, are things you want to be aware of.A pastor, of course, will want to take these and put them within the framework of the governing principles of a Lutheran wedding service. Now, what might they be? Well, we want to first of all deal with the churchly rites. Our Lutheran worship agenda currently about to be a new -- the "Lutheran Service Book Agenda" is something you'll want to consult. You'll want to obtain a copy, be thoroughly aware of those rites. And that rite is a very short rite. All of it, I think, would encompass not more than perhaps 12 minutes at the most.

Now, that would be the core of the wedding ceremony. That rite, that marriage rite, which consists of first of all, a statement, a cat e key assists of what marriage is on the basis of the Bible, God's institution of marriage, his intention to bless the couples who enter into this estate of holy marriage, and then their mutual consent and finally their public vows of mutual love and submission for the sake of Christ within holy marriage. Then the prayers of the church and the blessing of the couple. This comprises the marriage rite.Now, what else might happen within the marriage ceremony? That is, the wedding service. That, I think, is one of the things we want to impress upon couples. It's not about you. It's Jesus Christ, your Lord, that at the heart and the center of your life, of your marriage. And we want him to be front and center in this wedding service, as well. How might this best be done? Well, I think in these days it's very practical to provide some guidelines for a wedding that you can have an objective statement on paper as to what marriage is, what a wedding ceremony is, and how the wedding service will be laid out and conducted, not in rigid detail but certainly in clear enough outline so that we can clearly be understood.You might even -- many pastors have found it very helpful, in consultation with their parish musician, to list some of the songs and hymns that might certainly be considered to be part of that wedding service. All of them, of course, whatever suggested to be critiqued not on the basis of its effect or a personal attachment of one or the other of the wedding party or their families, a song that they like or that they heard at some other wedding, but, rather, we always want to ask the question: What does it say? What does it confess regarding God? For what does it pray? These are the boundaries of all public worship services and it holds true also for weddings, too.One of the problems I think we find these days is a very practical concern when it comes to wedding ceremonies, and that is that people often go for a very elaborate kind of ceremony, far beyond what they or their parents can ever begin to pay for in the near future. And maybe it would be time at this juncture in history to remind people to get again back to the basics. Maybe in the current climate and culture in which all kinds of Godless and pagan people are having this very, very elaborate ceremonies, it might be time for Christians to have a very simple ceremony, one which clearly confesses Jesus Christ as Lord, prays his blessing together with the father and the Holy Spirit upon their life together. Maybe such a service, such a wedding ceremony could be a clear confession to their friends and neighbors, a terrific testimony to the clarity and the truth of the Gospel in our very confused age. In other words, maybe less is more.There are some practicalities, of course, when it comes to these kinds of services. And above all, we want to stress that it's again not something that's up to me. It's not my personal preference. Rather, as a husband or a wife, I'm entering now into a marriage estate that God has instituted and blessed and in which he has promised to bless all who enter into it in accordance with the way he's given it.

So, in other words, marriage is bigger than any two individual couples, two individual people who come together as a couple to be joined together in marriage. It was instituted already in the Garden of Eden where God brought Eve to Adam and explained: This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. For this cause, God tells us there in Genesis, a man shall leave his father and his mother and be united to his wife and they two shall be one flesh. This, the Apostle Paul says in Ephesians 5, is a great mystery. It is a foretaste, an earthly image of the very relationship of Christ and his bride the church. It's a wonderful gift. And we enter into it, then, in accordance with how it's given.With those kinds of expectations, a certain amount of reverence, joyful reverence, to be sure, but reverence at the presence of God and at the awesome privilege that's now being given to these two to be united in marriage ought to kind of govern whatever we do within that ceremony.So those are the broad parameters. Perhaps that's helpful. And in further discussions with your mentor or in conversations with your instructor in this class, we can clarify some of the details. Great question there.



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>> DAVID: We've been speaking about marriage. But I suspect issues related to the dissolution of marriage are even more problematic for pastors. What do the Scriptures teach about divorce? Is divorce ever permissible?>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: The question about divorce, David, is a question that has been with the church, I guess, from day one. But it's a question more urgent today since the population at large, 50 percent of marriages, we are told now nationwide, end in divorce. That's very unfortunate. Leaves in the trail and in the wake a lot of unhappy people. The church in its ministry wants to try to prevent divorce where possible because as many, many divorced persons have related to me and possibly also to you, David, those that you have encountered, divorce is never really an answer to marital problems and difficulties. In fact, usually it's like the old Pandora's box, it opens the lid to many more problems than persons really anticipated.In our culture, people are sold on the idea that divorce is a way out of a difficult situation and that once they are divorced, they are free and then they can soar as an eagle, as it were. Instead, most persons are lonely and their problems become more and more complicated. So the church really needs to help these persons and to help marriages stay together.But your question is really whether divorce is ever permissible. Probably we ought to discuss this subject just a little bit from the vantage of the passages in the Gospels, and particularly I Corinthians 7 which address this issue of divorce and

remarriage. For you to study these passages as thoroughly as possible, I would commend to you this very fine work from the CTCR, "Divorce and Remarriage: An Exegetical Study" is the title. So you'll want to have that as a resource.Let's speak to the issue and begin where Jesus begins with the assumptions that he makes on the basis of God's creation that when a man and a woman come together in marriage, the Lord intends them to stay together, nothing tentative about that at all. Until death does them part. We read about his words in his teaching in Matthew 19 and Mark 10.He was pressed with a question similar to yours, David, by the Pharisees, only they were a little more testy with their question. They came to him in a spirit of bravado and ex claimed one day "well is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?" I believe they were expecting to trip our Lord up in the discussion. They were unsuccessful. The Lord responded and said, "well, you know the word to Moses." and he was citing the code in Deuteronomy Chapter 24 where the Lord provided for a woman, in this instance, who was put out of her marriage casually by casual divorce from her husband. Where was she in that culture? She was out of her marriage. She was therefore really out of society altogether. And so the mosaic law had a provision that the husband initiating divorce against his wife for maybe some willie-nilly negligible reason would have to write her a writ of divorcement that attested to her status now so that everybody would comprehend where she was.And our Lord said, "well, that provision was made due to the hardness of your hearts." in other words, in no way did that writ of divorcement provided under the mosaic law, in no way did that indicate that God was approving of divorce. It was a societal accommodation for the sake of this poor woman who was just bereft and left out.So the point here is that the Scriptures and our Lord's teaching really do not have any room for divorce.For instance, the passage in Malachi, chapters 2 versus 16, very interesting that Yahweh chastises the faithless breaking of marriage covenants by men and their wives. He comes down very hard on this. You have that graphic, pointed statement where the Lord says "I hate divorce" in Malachi Chapter 2. So the casual putting away of one's spouse was never looked on kindly by the Lord God. In fact, in those days, he attributed many difficulties for the people at that time due to their very casual divorce practice.There's a reason why their offerings were no longer accepted by Yahweh. And very much is made of those negative results from the practice, rather widespread apparently, of simply putting spouses away by casual, unwarranted divorce. Now that's a passage in the Old Testament. Very pointed and focused on this issue.Now returning to New Testament, the Apostle Paul comes at this issue much differently. Instead of posing the question directly, "is divorce permitted?" he approaches the issue if the vantage of marriage and the permanence of marriage.

And he does this in I Corinthians 7, also Romans Chapter 7. And I just want to cite a couple of phases for you on this point.The apostle speaks about marriage, and he wants marriage to stay intact, husbands and wives, remaining faithful to each other because they are bound to one another.Romans 1, he appeals to the law, binding a person during his or her life to his or her spouse. And he suggests if a married woman, for instance, disregards the law that binds her to her husband as long as he lives and as long as she lives, if she disregards this law and lives with another man while her husband is still alive, she will be called an adulteress. That's the way the apostle puts things. If her husband dies, she is free from the law in this matter and under these circumstances she is no adulteress if she marries another man.Then the apostle counsels towards single life. Except if a person cannot remain continent, that is exercise self-control, that is control sexually, then it's better to marry, he says, than to be consumed in the flame of passion. First Corinthians 7 verse 9. But he adds, "those who are married should remain in that estate. The wife should not separate from her husband." this is his specific statement. "nor should he divorce his wife." I Corinthians 7:11. For his premise is "a wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives." reiterating what he said Romans 7. "only if she be separated from her husband by death is she free to be married to whom she will." verse 39 of I Corinthians 7.My point is, David, that divorce really is unthinkable for the Christian in view of the teaching of the apostle. Remarriage is discussed only in instances where there has been separation of a marriage by death and the partners will no longer joined to one another.So my point is: Divorce is really outside the discussion. But then, David, it is part of the discussion, indeed. And our Lord's teachings -- and we go back to the Gospels for a moment -- indicate that he was very cognizant of the fact that sins in marriage finally result in situations where one or the other partners are just out of the marriage. And, yet, he is always emphasizing that marrieds stay married with two exceptions. And we, in our pastoral practice, have a term for that. Some debate whether it's a good term or a term used ill advisedly. It's "grounds for divorce." Now, Jesus put it in terms of kind of a caveat. He said husband are wife are married to each other and never the two shall part until death parts them except it be for important nay an, unfaithfulness, fornication or unchastity. What he means by that expression in Matthew 5:32 and in Matthew 19:9 is that divorce really is out of the picture except if one of the partners is unfaithfully sexually with carrying on an affair or a relationship with a person other than their spouse. In that instance, Jesus indicates by that "except clause" that person offended by the marriage that should have stayed intact but has essentially been unbroken by the unfaithfulness of the other, that person left by the sin of the other may be free to divorce. And the assumption is free, then, to remarry himself or herself to another party as they wish.

The difficulty with these passages is that in pastoral practice, some of us over the years have played a little foot loose here. I remember studying these matters as you are in my own seminary training where our professor made much of the fact that some pastors were kind of looking for an out for a person who came to them with unhappy marital situation. And if this person indicated that their wife or their husband had been unfaithful, then the pastor jumped right in. And he said oh, well that changes things. If that's the case, then you're free. You can get a divorce and you can go even marry another.What our professor was saying is: Whoa! Put the brakes on this. Jesus was not intending to give people easy outs of their marriage. Not at all. So we have, I think, matured a little bit in our outlook on this and in our practice. I know it was my practice in the ministry following the lead of my professor way back in the seminary when a lady, for instance, was offended by the fact that her husband had an affair with another woman, still we encourage that wife to do what she could to stay in the marriage, to be forgiving of her erring husband. After all, the forgiveness of sins is the very heart of our -- of the Gospel and our whole Christian faith and life. To be forbearing and forgiving. And if that husband is genuinely repentant and he comes back to his wife and he says "I've been a louse. I'm terrible. I made a horrible mistake. I still love you. And I want to be in this marriage together." and she is forgiving of him, chances are that thing can go on. The correct correction is made and we keep the marriage intact.The point is that Jesus' words should never be taken when these "except clauses," that is, as an easy out of anyone's marriage. We always encourage the marriage to stay together.Now, of course, if a lady as we've described is so offended by this action of her unfaithful husband that she cannot bring herself to live as a married partner with him any longer, I mean, she finds this action so despicable, if that's the case, then I think we say to a Christian lady like that, well if it's impossible for you, in spite of the fact that you want to forgive your husband and you do forgive him but you cannot live with him, then maybe it may be best that you part and separate with a divorce. You have the grounds. All right.But we don't come to that counsel very easy and very, very lightly.Now, I said that there were two grounds in our understanding here. Actually the words of Jesus focus on the issue of unfaithfulness, but the Apostle Paul raises another issue which makes it impossible for the marriage to continue. And our word for that is desertion. In fact, we add an adjective to it, malicious desertion. And our judgment here is guided by the Apostle Paul's consideration of a Christian married to a nonchristian in the ancient world. Here's a lady married to a man who is in the pagan Roman society. She is a Christian. The apostle's first counsel there in those verses, I Corinthians 7:12-15 is: Stay married. Don't divorce your husband. Just because he's not a Christian. But then he adds the caveat, if the husband departs. And you know a man in the Roman society could do that. A wife had no recourse. He could simply say: You're not my wife any longer, bye.

You're gone, I'm gone. This is the end of it. All right. Apostle says if the one party departs, the other party, the brother or sister, the Christian in that case is not bound. And we think he means not bound to a marriage which is no longer because of the desertion of the other party. And that's how we understand those passages.Now, some pastors have pressed the passage to say very narrowly well, Paul is talking about a Christian and a non-Christian. It really doesn't apply when two Christians are married together and the issue of desertion surfaces in their relationship. We believe that's pressing the text unduly. It can happen in a Christian marriage where you have a husband and a wife who are both confessing Christians, both members of the church, that one or the other deserts their marriage partner. But let's understand what desertion is and what desertion is not. Because this is another area where some persons like to rationalize. In other words, they have a very sensitive conscience about getting a divorce. Pastors work this way, as well. "boy, I sure do not like and I find this very uncomfortable that the people coming to me want to get a divorce. What's going on here? Boy, we'd all just like to latch on to some reason that would sustain the action of divorce and kind of relieve our conscience a little bit."And so some people are pleading all kinds of circumstances as desertion. You see, they know what the Scriptures teach here, they've been caught in cat an key assists and the like. Cat e key assists. So let's focus on this just for a moment. I think it's well and good.What is desertion? May I suggest, David, that this definition might serve us. Desertion in the instance that the apostle is speaking here in first Corinthians 7 is the persistent refusal of a married person to fulfill his or her role with attending responsibility in the marriage. I want to emphasize the persistent refusal. Refusal. So it's a volitional thing. That becomes desertion.Now, that could be a number of things. We've already mentioned the physical absence of one married partner from the marriage. Man just picks up, leaves, takes off, never heard from again. He's deserted his family and his wife in particular.Another aspect could be tier and cal conduct was our old term. It is now the term abuse. And I mean abuse in the severest sense. Where a wife, for instance, and her children are actually fearful of living under the same roof with a volatile personality that her husband is or has become. I can cite you an instance or two from my own ministry years ago where a husband actually went to the drawer in the kitchen, pulled out knives and ran after chasing the wife and children in the house. They had to get out of the house if they could. Flee to the neighbors, get the police and so on. When these instances occur repeatedly to the point that the wife is absolutely frantic about the unpredictable anger and violence of her husband, that husband essentially has deserted that woman. And there are nuances of abuse that sociologists and counselors can document that fairly well fit under this category.

A third area would be the refusal of the sexual life to our marriage partner. When there are no real medical factors involved. One or the other marriage partners, let's say a wife, simply tells her husband one day, "there no more of that. That's it." should a man have to live with a woman and be refused marital privileges and rights in the area of their sexual intimate life? No. That's one of the profound purposes of marriage. So in this instance, a wife could fairly well be deserting her husband.Okay. David, those are some instances where desertion really kicks in and, finally, makes it impossible for that marriage to continue. But you're going to raise the question about alcohol, about drugs and other dependencies. Well, occasionally well meaning people come to the pastor and says "my husband makes such a nuisance of himself with a bottle, I don't know whether he's an alcoholic. Maybe he is. He's certainly heading in that direction. I want out of the marriage." well, now, wait just a minute. The man's drinking problem itself probably is not desertion because if you put him on the spot and pressed him, he would probably say no, I didn't want to desert my wife, I really want to be a good husband. But he has that propensity or he has some other dependency, drugs or whatever. The real issue here is whether or not the man in this instance is willing to cooperate and pour everything into a rehabilitation program and really deal with this problem that's interfering with his marriage and their whole home and family life.If an individual like this man is hesitant or he lacks the sincerity or he just refuses to pursue some program open to him to rehabilitate him, that could become desertion. But you know that's a distinction from the problem itself. It's that the man is not willing to do something about the problem in that way he can eventually be so persistent that he deserts his spouse.Okay. Well, we ought to mention several things else that desertion is not. For instance, disabilities and impairments that befall a marriage due to tragedy, accidents and so on. They are certainly not brought on by the willful action of one or the other spouses, but these are just burdens and crosses that befall a marriage at times. And you cannot say that they are desertion. They are unfortunate, indeed. Absence from the marriage necessitated by military service are business obligations where both spouses have agreed that to the arrangement, which may call one or the other away from their family and away from their home for long periods of time, that is not desertion, either, even though it can create real difficulties for them.So we come to the question of incarceration. And, David, pastors in your generation are going to be ministering to many more people who are incarcerated, in prison for one reason or another. Is this desertion? Here we have a man who gets himself involved foolishly in a thievery ring. He is apprehended, convicted, sentenced to seven, eight years in the state penitentiary. And his good wife comes to the pastor and says, "look, my husband was just an idiot. He goes and gets himself into this trouble and now he's up there for seven, eight years, and I'm here.

And you know I have needs, too. And I really want to divorce this husband. As far as I'm concerned, he's deserted me."Well, I don't know how you're going to field that one, David, but let me tell you a man who is in prison, the last thing he needs is for a wife to reject him and to receive at the prison mail service through the mail service his papers, divorce papers. So let's be cautious how we give people freedom out of their marriages when even in the face of difficulties the better part of valor would be for them to stay in the marriage.Well, is divorce ever permissible was your question? David, we really should not use the word "permissible." a divorce can happen and a person may remarry and unfortunate circumstances when one of the spouses has been unfaithful or they find themselves in a marriage which is hopelessly separated and broken by desertion. But even then, pastors will ever advise against divorce as much as possible and encourage marriages to stay intact for the welfare of the spouses, for their children, for everyone concerned.



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>> NICK: How should a pastor respond to Christians who either contemplate divorce or announce that they have gotten a divorce? Would your advice change when the pastor knows or suspects that domestic abuse of either spouse or children was a part of the original problem?>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: Nick, your question extends our discussion of the whole subject of divorce and remarriage. And the particular accent in your question is whether or not the counsel the pastor an cords couples who are in marital difficulty contemplating divorce, whether that changes when we suspect, at least, that there may be abuse in the background.Well, let's address that initially in terms of our earlier discussion. We indicated that the apostle's exhortation relative to desertion in I Corinthians 7 would probably apply to an instance where a wife, for instance, was suffering abuse in such extreme measures that it really made it impossible for her to continue any longer in the marriage. And if a pastor suspects those circumstances in the background, it may be that if those situations are so dire and so extreme that a lady probably would be well to be out of a marriage if the abuse cannot be corrected and in a satisfactory manner so that she can have some security in continuing in a marriage and some assurance that it's a violent situation is not going to happen again. She has to have some assurances to continue in that marriage.So what we're saying is that abuse finally in terms of the apostle's counsel becomes a matter of desertion. And if that be the case, the pastor wants to be alert to that.

And certainly his counsel and his guidance here is going to be affected by that kind of an extraordinary and extreme abusive situation.Aside from that, let us say that the pastor normally takes the position that in spite of numerous difficulties that befall marriage, to follow our Lord's intention and the guidance of the apostle, people should be counselled to stay in the marriage, to deal with the difficulties but to stay in the marriage.Occasionally, however, this will happen and particularly in very large parishes where sometimes the family and private lives of our people escape the attention of the pastor for the reason of so many people in his care. A lady may come after the service to greet the pastor as the congregation customarily does at the church door. And this time she steps up and she says, "oh pastor, I just want you to know that Bill and I were divorced last week." oh, this is news to the pastor. He wasn't aware that there were any kind of problems that would precipitate that kind of action essentially dissolving the marriage. In fact, he's just taken totally by surprise. And the lady is a little flippant about the whole thing and she, of course, obviously is expressing some sense of relief that well, we got through all of this and the pastor didn't know about it and church didn't know about it and so if the pastor had known about it, he might have interjected himself in things here and made it much more complicated and we were spared all of that and now it's over and the pastor and the church will just have to accept things the way they are and we go on our way from here. Well how does the pastor respond to that situation? He certainly just doesn't let the lady off the hook and say something casual at the door and say oh, well, oh, that's news, but we hope you're going to get along all right. No, the pastor follows up a comment lying that maybe later in the week or when he has opportunity to call and maybe visit and suggest that he's really concerned about what has happened to the lady and her husband and the dissolution of their divorce and how all of this -- how this thing reads in the eyes of the Lord and that he wants to make her aware of this, also her husband. And perhaps he has to counsel both parties. If there was sin involved, the pastor does not want that to stand unattended. He moves toward some gentle pastoral admonition and possibly with a view to speaking the absolution, the thing is over and done, can't be much done about the circumstances, but the lives involved here possibly need his pastoral care.So a pastor will not just simply be laid back and accepting of divorces that occur in his congregation. He will want to follow-up.When a pastor is aware that a couple is having trouble in their marriage, he may very skillfully and patiently and gently, let us say, possibly let the couple know that he is aware that there may be some problems and difficulties and at least offer his assistance. Can we sit down and talk about the situation? Would you find that helpful? And so he attempts to move in and often the pastor doesn't get wind of things as we indicated a while ago until things have gone to pretty much wreck and ruin and the couple is really already at the lawyers and they're right at the footsteps of the courthouse and ready to arrange for the divorce.

The pastor may simply want to buy time if he can put the brakes on that and buy some time with the couple, help them comprehend their very closed situation in the larger picture of the Lord's design for them when they became married. My expression for this is move that couple, if the pastor is able, to holy ground where they begin to think about themselves as two people the Lord has brought together, whom the Lord blessed and whom the Lord intended in this marriage of theirs to find happiness and fulfillment and with a little cognizance of that little picture then come to the problems at hand and attempt to deal with them.So pastors are concerned about these situations in the homes and in the marriages of their people. And occasionally that calls for the pastor taking some initiative. Instead of being kind of in the know but not in the know and just hoping things are going to get better and then all of a sudden presented with another failed marriage. A pastor wants to attempt to prevent that if he can with whatever initiatives are available to him.



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* * * * * >> NICK: Thank you. Along those same lines, what considerations are important when the pastor counsels divorced persons who desire to remarry?>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: We can be speaking about two different parties here relative to remarriage. There is the person who was left by their marriage partner for reasons that we discussed earlier, their former partner was unfaithful to them or their former partner deserted them, so they are out of their marriage, for those reasons, which would seem, under the Lord's words and the counsel of the apostle to give them the freedom to remarry; and the other party or other situation are people who are out of their marriages for reasons other than those two as we described them as grounds for divorce, in other words, they're divorced but there wasn't unfaithfulness, there wasn't desertion. In fact, they may be out of their marriage because of casual divorce, if we can put it that way. In either case, we want to emphasize that their remarriage is a great step and should be approached with all of the thought and sensitivity that these persons are able to muster. And perhaps we would want those folks to think about some things initially before we get to the principles involved in remarriage itself.Permit me to explain. The question has to be raised about the divorce. Is the marriage that is no longer but the marriage that was, is it entirely irreparable? I realize that realistically the answer to that question is most frequently in the negative. But we are concerned about that question because even though a couple has gone to the courts and the courts have issued them a divorce, nevertheless a pastor is still in his pastoral rights, if you will, in care for these folks, after the

thing has occurred to still raise the question: Is your former marriage now, is it in the least viable?And this question comes up particularly when one of the parties, at least, would still like to be in that marriage even though a divorce has occurred. The other partner, the pastor might ask, in view of the fact that your former marriage partner would still like to be in the marriage and be reconciled, is there any possibility in your heart, after going through all of this, in your heart that you might be reconciled to that person, your former spouse? I say it's well for Christian pastors to at least raise the issue. Realistically, as I said, probably it's impossible to reconstruct that former marriage, okay. But the question is raised.Next we might reflect: Is the apostle's counsel here applicable when he suggests that a person divorced would best, in the Christian view, remain unmarried? Now, our pastoral practice in the past has, in some instances, gone in this direction. I remember a lady coming with a man that she wished to marry and she had been divorced for 15 years and her pastor who was then deceased had told her, however, at that time that she was a Christian. She was out of her marriage for reasons other than unchastity or desertion, no grounds. She really should remain single. Now that's the counsel she received. 15 years later she has found a man and the two of them want to marry. This means that she's remarrying. Does that exhortation to remain single still apply to her? All of her, as you can see, Nick, gets very sticky.Well, we usually operate this way in our Lutheran ministry. If that former marriage is irreparable, if it can't be reconstructed, even though the former spouse still living, we really cannot force a divorced person to remain single, especially on this count: If it is important for that person to be married in order to lead a chaste and decent life. What kicks in here is the apostolic reflection on one's sexuality in such a way that if a person cannot live a continent life and who really needs to be married, it's probably the better part of wisdom to direct that divorced person toward remarriage rather than to remain single. There may be some other factors here, and I know I'm getting in a very, very gray area here. Some people simply cannot live alone. I don't know what to make of that. But if it is impossible for them to maintain a stable life and purchase sewer their livelihood and the like and be a responsible individual alone, I don't know what to say. Maybe the lesser of two evils, so to speak, would be for that divorced person to remarry. But we're really in a gray area here. What's very clear, I think, is in I Corinthians 7:8-9 and to a certain extent our Lord's discussion about the eunuch, there's some people who can be in that state, some people who can't. In Matthew 19 as he discussion that in a little different connection, in a little different context, nevertheless, if it is impossible for a person to be a Christian and lead their Christian life singly, maybe it would be better for them to remarry.All right. Saying that now, we come to the point now a person, a Christian's going to remarry. They're divorced. Now they're going to remarry. What things should they take into consideration? They have some accountability, it seems, in three directions and the pastor can counsel them on this. Accountability to God,

accountability to others and accountability relative to themselves as a possible marriage partner. Let's just discuss it briefly.First of all, accountability to God. A divorced person, a Christian, will reflect deeply on what went wrong in the former marriage and what my part was in what went wrong. And if there is sin in the picture, as it frequently is, then a Christian wants to certainly be reconciled to God in the forgiveness and grace of God through Jesus Christ and be assured. And the pastor has to help assure that person. Those errors and those sins are in the past. And you go into your new life under the grace of God. So that's the first point. Accountability to the Lord himself.The second point is: Is the divorced person accountable to others? Meaning this. In the wake of a divorce, there are often family obligations. In the instance of a family who is a father, he has obligations to his children. Has the divorced person made arrangements to fulfill those obligations to the former family, if you will? Former wife, in the instance of a man, former children. Okay, so he's taken of those things. It's amazing how many people, however, are resistant to seeing to these matters in a responsible way. So the pastor wants to be alert to this and wants to help them on this count.The third point is: Is the persons accountable to himself or herself in this regard: The pastor should help the person ask themselves: Am I good marriage partner? What about some of the deficiencies? What about some of my idiosyncrasies? What about some of those factors in my own makeup that made it difficult for the former marriage to be a happy relationship? Maybe I better look in the mirror perhaps with a counselor and really deal with some of that so that I don't repeat the same mistakes in the next marriage.So we want to help this individual come to the new marriage as a viable marriage partner. And in that regard, a pastor will also try to make certain that the person remarrying has a positive view of what a Christian marriage is and how spouses should live together in love and honor, respect, forgive one another, forbear with one another. And that this person remarrying is ready to do just those things with the help that God gives through the Gospel.I want to close with a comment on the first point going back to accountability to the Lord in repentance. Ah, here's an area where people really like to kind of once in a while grease the wheels, Nick, if you will. And there are some misguided persons in these marital situations and remarriage situations who like to simply tell the pastor what they think he wants to hear. They will come with politically correct answers when the pastor presses them, "well, do you really see your ways and possibly the error of your ways in the past marriage? And are you dealing with those things under our gracious Lord?" Frequently people want to blow off those kind of gestures. And as I say, they'll kind of tell the pastor what he wants to hear. They'll say well they're sorry.The pastor really is looking for sincerity. Remember our basic principle. He wants to help these people do the right thing. And, boy, the right thing here is to be at peace with God over things in the past.

Sometimes we need to simply say to people, "look, get your hands on the table and let's be up front and let's be honest and sincere because we're in the going to play footsie with the Lord here. These matters need to be reckoned with. And they can be reckoned with under his grace, but that depends upon our honest dealings with them under Him." be not deceived, God is not mocked. So let's not play footsie with these matters. Sometimes, Nick, you have to be just that open with people and help them so that they don't come with some insincere repentance of a sort which they want to have glossed over. Then all is lost, so to speak.This is a point that you may want to be alert to. It is discussed somewhat at length under the notion of planned repentance by the CTCR document I made reference to earlier. So do read those passages and kind of steel yourself up for those occasions when you have opportunity to counsel divorced persons and hopefully remarriage into a happy and fulfilling marriage.



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* * * * *.>> ERIC: How does the pastor counsel a couple who are together in a trouble marriage? Nick already asked about abusive situations, so I do not mean to refer to such extreme cases. But what about marriages that are troubled because of money issues or persistent arguments? What about those couples who struggle to show affection to one another? What do we say one adultery enters the picture?>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: Well, Eric, the pastor's ears are beset with troubles and difficulties that people have living together in their Christian home. It's of those things that I think your question speaks. And of course you're raising the real biggie when a wife, for instance, discovers that her husband has been maybe sleeping around or he is having an affair with a woman either at work or on the road in traveling or whatever it is. Of course that's the biggie, the unfaithfulness issue. We have in an earlier discussion addressed that briefly but let's just pursue that a little bit in maybe some down-to-earth practical details.I mentioned a lady who's been offended by an unfaithful husband. Let's say he has been traveling and he comes home after 10 days, two weeks on the road and she discovers in his clothing some evidence that he's been fraternizing with some other women. It turns out that one night after work and meetings he was out in a restaurant or a pub or a bar and he meets this gal and in a moment of weakness he goes along with her and first thing you know, he's into big trouble and which she, the wife now discovers and comes upon.Now, should this lady just come to the pastor and say "my husband's been unfaithful to me and I want to get a divorce and I don't want to hear any static from

the church or from the pastor because I know from my teaching and confirmation class I have the right to get a divorce from this man." And the pastor senses this lady is very upset. Of course, she's very much offended. The pastor works with that thing kind of gently. Perhaps he tries to help the lady to back off a little bit and back away from the immediate issue and to just think a little bit about the marriage and the bigger picture. "well, you know you've been married for 13 years, and you've got a couple of fine children. There are some really fine things that have been happening in your marriage." And she acknowledges that and she's really trying to say those things are true and, pastor, I am really just angry and I really am." And the pastor tries to help her with her disappointment and her anger over her husband.So, in counselling with her gently and pastorally, he kind of moves her around to those great words in Ephesians 4 versus 32 where the apostle urges us to be kind to one another, patient with one another, forbearing. And then you have the word in that beautiful passage: Forgiving. And he buys some time with this lady, gives her some things to think about. And perhaps as she avails herself of the grace of God as he can point her to her own use of the sacrament and her hearing of the Gospel of God's love and his boundless grace and mercy to her and to all of us in our Lord Jesus Christ crucified, risen Lord, that when some of this begins to work in her heart, perhaps she will have a different view of things and be ready to talk about it in a little different frame of mind. So pastor's leading her in that direction. Let's say that this all happens. Maybe a week later, she comes back and has a discussion with the pastor. Then the pastor might suggest to her, "look, your husband really was a louse and I'm sure, knowing him, he recognizes that." and she acknowledges that he has made some overtures of repentance. He certainly isn't indifferent to this thing that he did. In fact, he's pretty broken up about it. Okay.Maybe, my friend, that's an open door, the pastor says. If you can bring yourself to forgive your husband of this terrible thing he did against you and your marriage and the two of you can come together again under Christ, the Lord Jesus will bind those wounds and bring you together again and perhaps your marriage can stay intact, which you realize probably would be the better thing for your children, also for yourselves. And by the grace of God continue your life together.So, we want to work in that direction. I think very ill advised have been that pastor -- and, frankly, generation or so ago, our pastoral practice, as I had indicated in an earlier discussion, might have been much more accommodational when this lady came in really upset and she presents this terrible thing her husband did and the pastor would simply jump in and would say "well, that husband of yours, he certainly is a bad fellow and you're in your rights to go get a divorce." if he had taken that tact, I think he would have frankly been in error with his pastoral practice. He certainly would not have worked the thing in such a way that the Gospel has an opportunity and the Holy Spirit has an opportunity to heal and to make whole again, something that really ought to stay whole and into the future.

Okay? You see the distinction between those two styles? I think that's very important when we're dealing with infidelity, which is the thing that you brought in your question.All right. Now how about some of these lesser things that make it uncomfortable for people to stay in their marriage, little squabbles, behavioral patterns and that sort of thing. We, as pastors, are party to just a lot of negative things. And now and then maybe we just have to be very directive and say to people: Look, folks, why don't you grow up? Now, that may be terribly top down and terribly direct. And a former style of pastoral ministry would object to that kind of direct approach where the pastor kind of lays it on and tries to just help kind of shake people a little bit and bring them to their senses and get them out of these behavior patterns that are becoming destructive. They would say "oh, these people got to go through some really indepth counseling." I think that could be profitable. But the opportunities are not there for everyone.Well, short of that, contemporary therapies are really moving in a different direction. There's been a shift away from the therapeutic to a very proactive approach, focusing principally upon the present situation and the re-learning and the practice of acceptable behavior patterns. This is what I'm really leading around to. This shift from passive introspection about our problems within the psyche to real action in the present -- why, I'm speaking, for instance, about William Glasser's reality therapy that dates several decades ago already but has been advanced and refined by marital counselling disciplines such as that of Michelle Weiner Davis, whose works have proven extremely helpful "Divorce Busting," "Remedy for Divorce" are two of her titles. And Davis' work is very usable by the pastor as counselor, a pastor who may not be trained in all of the intricacies of indepth therapy, but he can use some of the principles of this proactive approach. Weiner Davis calls her approach "the solution-oriented brief therapy." And her counsel is to find solutions rather than problems. Don't ignore the problems, but let's look for solutions. And her methodology can set the pastor to assist couples who are troubled by just foolish behavior patterns from day-to-day.The suggestion is that even a very slight change in those destructive behavior patterns can effect marvels for the relationship. And it's been proven. It's been demonstrated that this kind of on-surface, present situational therapy is very helpful to people.So, Eric, I would commend to you, together with other mentors and other teachers to become acquainted with some of the basics of this solution brief therapy and employ it when you see your people struggling with things in their marriage that just make things miserable for everybody. All right?The other thing I wanted to say in closing here is that I have a concept of the holy ground. I teach it here in my classes and I share it with you, Eric, and others that sometimes we've got to move people back to where they started, to that holy ground, before the altar, two people convinced the Lord has been leading them to each other, giving the young lady to the man as his wife, giving the young man to

the lady as her husband and the Lord blessing that and sending them on their way to live under his Word, to commune together at His altar, this is holy ground. And the Lord has so much interest in that marriage Himself. Let's get things in order so we don't disappoint Him. It'll make our whole life happier.We could pursue this in much more detail, but I think you get the concept. Help people so fixating upon these little nettling things that are disruptive, move them back to the larger picture and help them rediscover the mystique in their life together, mystery, lovely mystery and God in the whole thing. He in their marriage with them. Help them in that direction and some of these little irritants and irritations will go away.



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>> ERIC: I've been hearing some concerns and questions from my congregation members about cremation. This is especially true among my older parishioners who were raised Catholic, since the Catholic church did not allow cremation until the mid 1960s. What should a Lutheran pastor tell his people about cremation? Do we argue against it?>> PROFESSOR HAROLD SENKBEIL: Well, Eric, no, we don't argue against it. That's the short answer. But there is a longer context to that answer that I think you need to be aware of. The reservations regarding cremation are not a peculiarity related to the Roman Catholic church, but the long-standing tradition of the Christian church has been very much opposed to cremation, historically speaking. Why was that? For a number of reasons. First of all, we see in Holy Scripture that the burning of persons is really an expression of the wrath of God. It's a horrible way of dying. It is indeed a capital punishment imposed upon God's people Israel in order to address certain reprehensible sins. So it's an element of destruction, burning in fire, in other words. So that was one factor.The other reason was this: During the rise of agnosticism and militant atheism in the 18th and 19th centuries due to rationalism, there was a clear indication amongst the atheists that they did not want to be buried in the ground when they died because they wanted to surely rule out any kind of resurrection. So for them, cremation was a matter of their confession that there is no God and there is no after life and there is no resurrection of the body.

Now, you can easily understand, then, the Christians in general in that kind of a context, were very much opposed to cremation because they didn't want to give the impression that they didn't believe in the resurrection of the body.Now, that kind of framework, that kind of mindset is no longer common knowledge in our society and there are other kinds of practical reasons and many various metropolitan and urban areas, for example, the burial grounds are getting filled up with bodies. So in order to compress these remains, they're frequently cremated and buried in those cemeteries in a much smaller spot. So these are practical concerns that enter in. And for these two reasons, the practical concerns and the fact that there are no longer militant atheists around claiming that cremation is a sign of denial of the resurrection, the church has therefore permitted cremation to occur amongst its members. In fact, you'll find in the new Agenda, the Pastoral Agenda, that the burial rites include prayers for the disposal of cremains, as they're called.Now, there's a broader context, I think, that do raise some pastoral concerns, however, and they are these. There's an unfortunate tendency to think within contemporary Christiandom, also amongst our Lutheran churches, to kind of buy into the spirit of the times which is very much in tune with spirituality but a very kind of general spirituality, not a Biblical understanding of what the soul is and the union of the body and the soul at the time of conception. The separation of the body from the soul, of course, occurs at the moment of earthly death. But there is a reunification in the resurrection of that body and soul. And so our Christian practices need to reflect that.Unfortunately, I think, there's somewhat of a kind of gnostic separation between body and soul that occurs in the heads of a lot of our Christians, including our Lutheran Christians, in which they have a rather cheap idea of what the body is, that it's kind of a dead body is kind of like so much trash to be discarded, that it's really not important. It's only the soul that's important. And Heaven consists of disembodied souls.Now, that of course as you understand, Eric, is not a Biblical idea at all. In fact, we even confess in the Apostle's Creed, "I believe in the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting." So whatever we do ought to clearly confess our confidence that the body which is sown in dishonor, to quote I Corinthians 15 will be raised in glory. So whatever we do, we don't want to encourage this idea of demeaning the body, of tossing it out with the trash, of despising it in any way.So I think I would want to teach my people not just when death occurs to their surviving family members but consistently to the entire parish that as a matter of our conviction and faith in our God who created us, who redeemed us and who sanctifies us, that we are going to treat these bodies that God gave us with respect, even in death. And however we dispose of these bodies, it is not done in discarding them, but, rather, we reverently commend these bodies to the earth in either burial of the body or in cremated remains in the sure and certain hope of the

resurrection unto eternal life. That definitely has to be in the framework. And we want to always encourage that idea.



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>> NICK: I attended the funeral of an acquaintance last month and it got me thinking about what it will be like when I help to handle funeral services. It seems like personal eulogies by family members are almost always expected at funerals. Do eulogies have a place at a Lutheran funeral? And how do I work with families to plan a funeral service that is both helpful to the mourners and yet faithful to our doctrine?>> PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL: Well, Nick, I'd be glad to address that. And the thing that you pointed out here is so very important because it's true that in recent years, perhaps the most recent generation, the expectations of people coming to a funeral certainly include hearing at least one or maybe more, several eulogies, sometimes by family members in the context of that funeral.Now, how do we handle this? Well, I'd like to suggest again that we take the big picture, that we patiently and consistently teach our members regarding what death is, it's a defeated enemy, and what the funeral service is about.We want to certainly help them to see that this is an opportunity for everyone, chiefly the mourners, the immediate family, certainly, but then all their friends and an acquaintances and, I mit add, the entire congregation. Can we build that mind set against our members that funerals are not private affairs but they really are a public service of worship of that congregation? That the members of the body of Christ, when one member weeps, all the members weep with it. When one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

So, a funeral is a public service. Now, regarding eulogies, what does a eulogy mean? It means good words. And certainly it's to be expected that when a loved one dies, there will be a lot of reflections going on. Part of the way that families grieve the loss of those they love is to tell stories about their personal attachment with that person. Sometimes those stories are sad and poignant. Sometimes they're funny and joyful. And I think there's a place for stories like that. But you know I'm not certain that it's within the funeral service.I personally would suggest that we encourage families to engage in that kind of public conversation in all kinds of other avenues. It could happen, for example, if there's a visitation time at a funeral home or after the funeral itself in many areas it would be customary, and I think with good reason, to gather around with some refreshments and to speak with one another. And at that time these loved ones could get up certainly and say their words which are on their heart.What happens all too frequently, in my experience, Nick, is that when these kinds of eulogies are injected within the funeral service, it has the net effect of undoing everything that you're trying to accomplish by way of preaching and teaching the Word of God. The comfort and the consolation which you're providing in Jesus our Lord, who is the resurrection and the life, all too frequently is undermined and set aside as raw emotions show themselves and the great sorrow and the loss is once again shown on public display.Now, one can't fault people for such expressions. Their concern and their compassion is certainly legitimate of the loss which they feel needs to be shared. But I'm not certain that that's the place for it. So I would personally discourage it. If in certain circumstances you simply cannot get away from it, I would say "all right, let's have that person get up before the service starts." I would definitely encourage it that way rather than the other way, for the reason I said before. You want the funeral to point all those who mourn to that time when there will be no more sorrow or crying, when God himself will wipe away every tear from their eyes, when all the saints in glory will be gathered around the throne and when we rejoice now, already now, in the resurrection of the body in the life everlasting. Now, on certain occasions, if the member of your congregation who dies has been a public official or perhaps a member of the military or some other organization like that, there will be a representative of that organization or of the government in that case that would want to offer a word of greeting on behalf of that organization or government. Such a statement, I think, may legitimately be included within the funeral service itself. Again, taking second place to the main thrust, that is to hear the Word of God, to pray and to hear the Word of God proclaimed specifically to this loss and in light of our confidence in the forgiveness of sins for Jesus' sake, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting. I think those are the governing principles when it comes to eulogies.



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>> JOSH: What should I keep in mind when conducting a funeral and burial? Any advice would be welcome. How can we be of comfort to friends and family of the deceased? How can we proclaim the Gospel?>> PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL: Well, Josh, you have really answered part of your question right there in that very last part of it: How can we proclaim the Gospel? At the time of death, that's exactly what everyone needs to hear. Funerals are conducted not for the sake of the dead but for the sake of the living. And what provides consolation and relief of their grief and pain and sorrow is indeed that great good news that God was in Christ reconciling the whole world unto himself, not counting their sins against them.So that article of justification by grace through faith is indeed the heart and center and very soul of the life of the church. And from that center comes all of our pastoral care also in terms of funerals.There are certain practical aspects of conducting a funeral and a burial. It would probably be good to review, given the fact, of course, that local circumstances will dictate some variations on what I'm about to say.In some communities, it's customary that a local mortuary or funeral home would be the location of a funeral. And while we want to be sensitive to the expectations of people, I think clearly it's important that we teach people that they would expect to use the church, if at all possible, for the funeral service. Why? Well, it's in that place, that sacred place, set apart in the name of our holy trinity that that person, in

most cases, was brought to faith in the waters of Holy Baptism, that place where he or she heard the Gospel preached routinely and regularly, that place where he or she received the sacrament at the altar. It's only fitting that in that place, their bodies should be taken from that place and placed in the earth.And so I would encourage church funerals if at all possible. If you cannot, if you're going to be in a funeral home, then attempt, with the cooperation of the funeral director who are always very eager to please, make that as churchly as possible. Perhaps bring some furnishings of the church into it, the cross or Crucifix from the altar could be placed in a prominent place. If you have a processional cross, even so, so much the better. That that would be a visual symbol and reminder to the entire flock and to the community of what your congregation is about, where your consolation is found.I would always be careful to wear my vestments when conducting all dimensions of a funeral service in order not to show off but to demonstrate to one and all that it is a ministry of God himself through his church that's being provided in this place. That the authority is not mine. The consolation I'm bringing does not originate in me. But it's rather the words which God gave me to speak in his written word the Bible. These are the words which I bring to provide consolation and comfort to those who sorrow and mourn.Now, the surroundings may dictate some variations, but I think there are general parameters. If there is a viewing beforehand, before the funeral starts, whether that be in the funeral home or in the church, it is appropriate, of course, for the casket to be open. It's, I think, part of a natural tendency that part of the grieving process is taking leave of this dead body to be able to view it one last time is important to people.But when the funeral service starts, the casket should be closed so the attention of the assembled congregation is not on the dead person who is departed but rather upon the living Lord who has promised the resurrection of the body.The casket may be covered with a funeral pall, that is this large white cloth that symbolizes the purity, the innocence and the righteousness of Christ which is placed upon a person when they are baptized into him and in whose righteousness they go to stand before the Heavenly throne in glory.It's appropriate, then, that before the funeral service starts, as our Lutheran worship agenda and the subsequent agenda no doubt will include, that there be a small rite by which the pall is placed over the casket during the time of the reading of the Epistle from Romans 6, "do you not know that all those who are baptized into Christ have put on Christ?"The powerful combination of visual ritual and the oral word has a terrific effect upon impressing upon people a solid lasting truths that give them consolation in a time their sorrow and loss.If you have a processional cross, it would be appropriate to use that to lead people into the church or certainly out of the church, too, and if possible, even to the grave side which conducts the final portion of the funeral service.

The funeral rite, as it's laid out for us in the agenda, has three components. It begins before the funeral service in terms of visitation in the home. It continues at the church where the funeral is conducted or the funeral home, as the case may be. And then it concludes grave side, if at all possible.In some communities, especially in large urban areas, it's an added expense to have a grade side rite. But I would encourage pastorally, if at all possible, that that service, that portion of the service be conducted there graveside if at all practical. It adds a certain sense of closure and confidence so that people, as they return to visit that grave site would be reminded of what they saw and heard at the time of the burial; namely, Christ's servant, again briefly but clearly articulating and speaking the Gospel, commending this body to the earth. Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust in the sure and certain confidence of the hope of the resurrection unto eternal life. That they would hear ringing in their ears this final blessing which was spoken over the body of that person that they love, "may God the father who created this body, may God the son who by his blood redeemed this body, together with the soul, and may God the Holy Spirit who by Holy Baptism sanctified this body to be his temple keep these remains unto the day of the resurrection of all flesh."It's also appropriate at that time to have some earth or in some cases the funeral director will provide a vial of sand to place at the time of that blessing upon the casket a sign of the cross as a visual depiction, again, of our redeemer, of his blood-bought redemption and of our confidence in the resurrection of the body. These are externals. They're only ceremonies. Greater or less of them will not make a difference. But a proper, reverent use of them can have a powerful impact upon people and add great consolation to their sorrow.Now, regarding the funeral sermon, here it's important that great care be taken in terms of preparation. A funeral sermon is an occasionally sermon. What do we mean by occasional sermon? It's a sermon that's directed to specific people at a certain circumstance. Another occasion might be, for example, a confirmation service or a wedding ceremony. In this case, a funeral service.What would be the components in a funeral sermon? Well, chiefly and foremost, of course, it would be a proclamation of God's clear word, his law and his Gospel. Now, the law, of course, is clearly and prominently displayed and depicted in the dead body that is in view. No doubt in front of the altar a casket is placed with a closed lid.However, in the sermon, it would be certainly clear to point out that death is a consequence of sin. But Christ our Lord has conquered sin and death. This is the sum total of the heart of the law and the Gospel that we want to proclaim.It would be definitely appropriate to choose a specific text that would be appropriate to the circumstances of this person's life and his or her death and the circumstances of those who mourn the death.

There are volumes of resources that spell out various texts from Holy Scripture under certain contexts and conditions. And again in the pastoral agenda, these kinds of resources will be available to you.Now, as you prepare the sermon, you want to keep in mind your interaction with this person all through his or her life. That's why long pastorates are to be encouraged, as well. Your preparation for the sermon really begins much earlier, during your ministry to that person from the time you arrive in that parish until the time of this death. And it certainly becomes in earnest if that person undergoes a long, lingering illness.A lot of the texts that you're going to use in the context of your pastoral visitation, some of the hymns which you would sing -- and I would encourage the singing of hymns at the bedside of a dying Christian -- those hymns will be prominent in the ears of members. They will provide great consolation to people. And those hymns, then, that you use in pastoral care will ordinarily be part and parcel of the funeral service, as well.So those texts and those hymns would certainly be part of the service. Or a specially chosen text. Make that funeral sermon a textural sermon. But the components, the building blocks, if you will, the threads which you're going to weave throughout the sermon, would also include a personal image of that departed person above all his or her faith and confidence in our gracious God. The example of faith that they've given. The Bible declares "blessed are the dead who die in the Lord. Yea, says the spirit, and their works do follow them."And it's not inappropriate to speak about the works of the departed, but always make sure that those works are not the reason why we have confidence in the resurrection unto eternal life. But, rather, those works flow from love of the Lord Jesus. They exhibit genuine Christian charity. They're an example of Christian faithfulness. And the chief among those works would be the example of faithful attendance in the Lord's house and eager expectation to hear the Word of God, to receive the comfort and the blessings of the sacrament of our Lord's body and blood under bread and wine. These things, I think, would be the components of the personal side of the sermon.I might add here in this connection that if you develop a reputation amongst your congregation as being a compassionate pastor, one who clearly has in view the individual circumstances of each person for whom you preach a funeral sermon, then the kind of great clamor for being able to say "a few words," those personal eulogies will diminish because families will have confidence that their loved one will be clearly in view in the word that's preached from the pulpit.Do remember in preaching the Gospel at the time of the funeral that certainly we do not want to diminish confidence in our Heavenly home. There is great consolation as the apostle writes "I desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better." There is a better place to which we go. Our soul upon death indeed is with Christ in Heavenly glory.

But do not neglect, also, to clearly articulate and spell out the other dimension of our consolation at the time of death; namely, we believe that when Jesus returns, he will also bring with him all those who have fallen asleep in him. And so this body which is placed into the earth is placed there in full confidence and expectation of the resurrection unto eternal life. Don't neglect to preach that, as well. Especially in the times in which we live, as I said before. This is part and parcel of our Christian faith, which is unique, increasingly so and stands out amongst all the other kinds of spirituality so prevalent in our time, which really diminishes and neglects the body and the created order. In the resurrection, we have confidence that body and soul will be joined together in eternal glory forever more.These are some very important things that we would want to remember when it comes to planning funeral services and funeral sermons. I hope this helps.



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* * * * * >> DAVID: I'm wondering what should be done for the family after the funeral is over? What is the proper pastoral care of a mourning family at the time of death and in the weeks and months to follow?>> PROF. HARLD SUNKBEIL: Well, David, let me begin in answering your question by telling you a little story from my own experience. The very first funeral that I ever conducted was for a prominent member of our community, a rather small community in northern Minnesota. And in providing the help that was needed both in the context of that funeral, it was a very sudden death and a shocking death, unexpected. And also in ministering to the family afterwards who had already experienced other loss, I found myself terrifically depleted. Why? Because part of my consolation and the focus of my consolation, really, in attending to the grief of this family was my natural assumption that how I was going to be able to help them was to feel sorry for them, to hurt with them.Now, of course a pastor is compassionate. That means he feels along with or alongside of those who suffer. Of course he will, since he's an approachable pastor who is concerned about them who has their very best in mind for them, he will hurt for them. But that's not the source of their consolation. And I discovered that very rapidly.I simply didn't have it in me to provide to this family or to all those others who were hurting and grieving the kind of consolation and help that they needed. I discovered very quickly, however, that the Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, is a boundless source of compassion and healing for all hurting and grieving people. And the very best thing that I could do for these families was to offer them

this consolation of the one who together with the Father sends his Spirit as a continuing ongoing consolation and comforter, the one who provides help in the forgiveness of sins, in the gifts of forgiveness, life and salvation which he abundantly displays in that Gospel which we hear preached every Lord's day and in the sacrament which we receive from his altar. I always want to point people to find their consolation there.So, to answer your question: How can I help these families? One of the things that you need to remember is that grief is expressed in a multiple number of ways. A lot of people, when they're faced especially with a sudden death of one they love, will go into a kind of shock. They retreat into themselves. They're almost numb to external things. They're very hard to reach, quite frankly. And the first time you run into this, you might be a little bit shocked. You'll wonder: Well didn't this person love that person? Why aren't they responding to the words of comfort and consolation of the Word of God?Well, it's a natural response. It's when the heart and the soul really kind of retreat in order to be -- find their healing and consolation. We get concerned, of course, if a person stays at that stage of grief. But that's another story. Frequently we need to work through that in order to arrive at a genuine consolation and closing regarding this loss.Other people might respond in a far different way. They might become angry, for example, at the person who's left them, who has up and died, if you will, right when they needed them the most. They might even be angry at God. And they might express that. And you, as a pastor, had better be prepared to hear that. God himself, of course, is big enough to take it. And in his heart of consolation, there's comfort even for those who are angry, and those who suffer and hurt, as well.So what I'm saying is you need to be prepared for all kinds of different responses of grief. They are there are very good resources available. You can find them again at your District office, perhaps a local, even a secular agency that deals with grief has a lot of these resources available. But, remember, the consolation you're going to provide is different than a secular consolation. It's not just in so-called "working through" these stages of grief that people will find their final help. They're going to find it in God's word and in the sacraments. And that's where you come in. You're the one that cares for their souls even during this time when they're hurting the most. And the consolation you provide at this acute time of loss will be the same kind of consolation you provide throughout their lives. You're pointing them to the cross of our dear Lord Jesus Christ, to Jesus Christ and him crucified, our constant hope and consolation in every time of joy and in sorrow.Now, the practical aspects of this, as I said, begin in your visitations even before the person dies. You're laying the groundwork even as you minister to the dying person, you are ministering to those who are there observing. They're watching. They're listening.

The continuation of your care for them, then, extends beyond the time of the funeral. Never, and I add this, I say it again, never assume that you're done being a pastor once that burial has taken place. Because those people are going to experience all kinds of loss in the coming months, even years. It will take some time to recover. Especially those who have lost their spouse after a number of years of a lengthy marriage. Although it's certainly expected in this fallen world that one of this couple will die, when that happens, there's a terrific sense of loss. I liken it really to an amputation. Initially there's a sharp pain. Eventually there's a healing. But there's always a loss there. These two who were one flesh for all this time are no longer together. And the person remaining needs compassion, consolation, encouragement and care.No matter what the circumstances are, be alert to certain trends. If you see this family or loved ones who are grieving this loss are not back in church regularly in their regular church attendance patterns after some reasonable length of time of mourning, then you're going to want to be in touch with them. You're going to want to already at the time of the funeral, perhaps if there is a fellowship time after the funeral, after the burial, as you leave that place, you're going to want to go over to that family. You're going to say now, remember the words which I spoke to you. You'll be in my prayers. And if it's all right, I'd like to come and see you let's say a week from today, whatever's appropriate. Make a kind of preliminary arrangement, a contact, as to when it is that they can expect your visitation. Go there. Listen to them.Listening to the stories of the grieving is the part and parcel of the way that you care for them. And then when they're done speaking, you speak compassionately in response, letting them know that you hear their pain. But speak the words of consolation that are given to you from above. Speak the words of God. You can plan ahead. Perhaps a Psalm that was used in the funeral service or a hymn, use that as the focus of your devotional words and your prayer with them.Be alert, then, to their needs on an ongoing basis. Some families who experience loss will need more pastoral attention than others more frequent than others. Just don't write them off. Be alert to them.Remember, too, that anniversaries -- anniversaries are important. That is, an anniversary of a death is a vivid reminder of that loss. And particularly those first years, the first Christmas, the first Thanksgiving without their loved one is going to be a particular time of loss and grieving for them. Be alert to that.On the anniversary of the death of their loved one at least call them up on the phone. In addition, I would suggest write a note, perhaps in advance, so it arrives in advance of that anniversary. A handwritten note in our electronic age stands out with your own handwriting to offer the consolation of God's word, the consolation of the care of their pastor, the assurance of your continuing prayers for them and your signature will mean a lot. It will be a treasure for them.So these are some of the things that you want to keep in mind in the care of those who grieve.



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>> NICK: I can see that there are a number of tough questions surrounding funerals. For instance, may a pastor conduct a Christian burial for a person who is known to be an unbeliever? What about a person who committed suicide? Can he or she receive a Christian burial? What should a pastor say in such circumstances?>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: Nick, the pastor's funeral ministry is perhaps one of the most vital aspects of his pastoral care, and you raise a couple of very substantive questions.The question about a Christian who takes his or her own life, let's address that question first. I'll start with a reflection on earlier pastoral practice a generation or two ago. When a person took his or her life, the presumption was that he or she denied themselves the opportunity to repent of that sin. Now, this was really pressed by pastors in a former generation, and so they backed away. I remember my father's ministry. He was very hesitant to conduct a funeral service, much less a burial rite for a person who took their own life, arguing, as I indicated, that, well, if the person denied himself or herself the opportunity to repent, it's doubtful that he or she died as a Christian, and that probably forecloses on the church's ministry, which is to conduct Christian burial for Christians. That, of course, is the basic principle.Nick, I think that since that time, the behavioral sciences have been a great help to us. We do not understand why a person takes his or her life, but psychology has helped us to comprehend, perhaps, some of the circumstances a little more clearly.

Today, we approach this matter in a more pastoral and obliging manner, and I think for good reason. I myself find it difficult to believe that when a Christian takes his or her life that that action is itself a denial of their faith in their Lord Jesus Christ. Dr. Senkbeil talked about tentatio, one of these mental and theological and soul stirring afflictions that a pastor and a theologian and has over a particular point of doctrine or a particular practice, and this is one of my. I wrestled with this matter very much.But we take a different approach today and it kind of goes along this line. No one can really ascertain what is going on in the mind of a person who decides to end their life. That's beyond our comprehension. So we leave all of that in the hands of God. He knows. Let's leave things there. What we do know is that this person was a member of our Christian fellowship, was a Christian, used the means of grace, and on that basis we say the individual was a Christian and we're going to give them Christian burial and leave everything else to the judgment of God. So that's our approach on this.I do want to alert you, however, Nick, that there are a lot of things going on in a bereaved family that are extremely difficult when a person, by surprise, suddenly takes his or her life. There are feelings, deep feelings. On the one hand, great love for their loved one who is gone and a sense of loss. That is countered, however, by feelings of anger. Why did he or why did she do this to us and bring this great sorrow upon us volitionally, taking his or her life? You got all this going on. And then there are feelings of recrimination. Is there something that we could have done in the family to prevent our loved one moving to the pressie piece and going over? How could we have prevented it? What did we overlook? These kinds of feelings among the bereaved. And being mindful of this, you as a pastor will want to work very skillfully and very sensitively with these folks. And in the conduct of the service, particularly your sermon message, you might take a couple of steps here. I'll just kind of lay them out as I recall them.First of all, it's well in a message to at least indirectly acknowledge what has happened. Without being judgmental at all, but this has happened. And it was an unusual circumstance. Many things we don't comprehend. We recognize and I think it's fair to say this that the Lord prohibits in the fifth commandment that we take life at all, including our own life. But then quickly add: We don't know what was in the mind and heart of our loved one and we leave that to a gracious and merciful God. All of that is in His hands. And now you want to assure the bereaved family and friends that God still cares for them and extends to them His love and His strength by His Holy Spirit in such an hour and through the death and resurrection of Christ who conquers all of these ills and all of these evils ultimately and keeps us for Himself for eternity. Something along those lines might be a way to approach the ministry to bereaved persons in that instance. But the answer to your question do we conduct Christian funerals for people who committed suicide? Yes, we do and we certainly should. Even though it's very much a shift in practice from former years.

Okay. The larger question is: Do we conduct a Christian burial for a person who was a known professing unbeliever? And those circumstances arise frequently this way. A Christian member of your congregation, Nick, may be married to a person who is not a church member and maybe more than that is just very skeptical about God and maybe somewhat cynical about religion and really wants to have nothing to do with Christianity. That may be the case. Or there may be a person in the circle of friends of some of your Christian people who are very much like that. Now, such a person dies. And people don't know where to turn. They come to the pastor. Can you serve us? Can you have the funeral for our loved one, our friend, knowing full well the negative attitudes toward Christianity, toward the Lord, toward God and so on, what do you say?Well, our basic principle operative here is that Christian burial is for Christ-confessing Christians. It just has to be that way. And the implications are that a person who is a professed nonchristian, say for 50, 60 years of their life, and they've been very open about their resistance to the Gospel even though they've been invited and urged by relatives and friends to join the church or inquire about the Christian faith, no, didn't want to have anything to do with it, it seems that a Christian service, then, kind of imposes on that posture of that individual unduly. And one questions whether this is even fair. Besides that, our practice has been influenced by such texts in the Old Testament such as Jeremiah Chapter 22 where the prophet was very vocal and visible in Jerusalem about the death of King Jehoichim and said that his body should not receive even respectable burial because of his wickedness. And it should be dragged and cast for the beyond the gates of Jerusalem. Kind of a severe passage, versus 18 to 19 of Jeremiah 22.And then sometimes Jesus' words "follow me and leave the dead to bury their own dead." that's sometimes engaged here in our former teaching of pastoral theology. So you have this in the background, as well.Nevertheless, pastorally, you are facing a family. And many pastors will say that's the highest priority, it's ministering to the living. And the pastor fairly well should take and officiate at a funeral of this nature and of this kind.Well, maybe something in between, we might suggest, Nick. Chances are the family or the circle of friends will understand, as Christians the duplicity here and the difficulty here. Still, the pastor can minister to these bereaved persons informally during this time. And my own recommendation would be if you are pressed to have a service for such a person, that you make it a private service. And maybe it could even be limited to a committal at a cemetery or mausoleum or wherever the remains are going to be disposed. Maybe limit it to that but you're still serving the folks. And you might indicate to them that the committal sayings will be somewhat different than they have heard maybe at other Christian funerals. You cannot attest to a person who is a professed unbeliever that he is a Christian. I don't know that you can commit his remains to God in the name of the triune God as we do and the wording of the committal. And you might indicate to the family

that things will be said and stated just a little differently. And they should expect that. But you're still serving them and you're able to pray with them and do a couple of the other things that are in our normal funeral rite.So maybe that's the way to handle that very difficult question.You see, Nick, the reason I would encourage if you take such a funeral and you accept responsibility for it that you make it private is this: The Christian church at a funeral always is executing and the pastor is exercising the public ministry of the Christian church, which involves the confession of the Christian church in the triune God. Christians are very Creedal. That's very important. And it's important that nothing in the worship, in this instance a funeral service, is contradicting that confession. The deceased brings his or her own witness. I'm speaking much beyond the emotional situation here. It just is one of those things. A person who was an unbeliever and an unprofessing Christian brings a certain witness that really should not be contradictory to the public profession of faith of the church.So I give an example to my students of an individual who was a very public person, let's say in the town, who is a professed unbeliever, has resisted every opportunity to even inquire about the Christian faith, but his or her Lutheran relatives come and want the pastor to have this big public funeral where the aldermen, the police department, the fire department and all kinds of civic clubs, the whole city or town is going to be present there. It's very difficult for a pastor in his public ministry to conduct a Christian service when he has the witness of the deceased, which is quite contra distinct. Although I'm well aware of a different opinion on this where some pastors say whatever the setting, it's an opportunity to preach the Gospel, go ahead and do it. Okay. These are alternatives. And you, Nick, and your fellows in the classes and learning will have to make some of your own decisions on this.But the basic principle is still that we conduct funerals as Christians for Christian persons.Nick, can we move on to a slightly different issue that might enforce the notion that we're about the ministry of the Christian church here by considering this issue. I think it was at least latent in your question. Why are we as pastors involved in the funeral business at all? As a pastor who for more than a decade was working as many as 50, 55 funerals a year, I'll tell you, once in a while that question arises. Just what are we doing here?I have a couple of points to make on this. I'm a firm believer that the theology surrounding the body, if you will, after all, that's what a funeral and a burial is all about, committal. It's dealing with the remains of someone who has died. In this instance, a professing Christian. How shall we do that? Are we simply driven by funeral customs in the culture? No. There's a real theology here. I'll just light on it briefly. It goes like this.Surrounding the body here is, first of all, the subject of creation. "The Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils and he

became a living being." Genesis 2 verse 7. Mankind in the body was created in the image of God. So creation's a first factor.Second factor, redemption. The apostle asked the rhetorical question, "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? That your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you? Indeed, you are not your own. You are bought with a price." Paul's talking about the person, the whole person, soul and body, redemption.Third point, resurrection. It's our belief as Christians that our bodies, wherever they landed, whatever their state, for long, for short, whatever, will one day be raised as Jesus indicates in John Chapter 5. "The hour is coming when all in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth." And as Paul reiterates in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. So the resurrection of the body which we confess in our Creed is the third factor.Fourth is translation, or glorification. The Christian can anticipate not only their body being raised but that body glorified and transformed as Paul speaks of it in I Corinthians 15 and Philippians Chapter 3. I just think that there's some powerful theology here that really helps to raise our funeral practice far and above customs, traditions and whatever might be driving things in the culture. And this really helps the pastor realize that he is about some serious business, the Lord's business, when he is conducting a service which is the Christian way of disposing of the remains of a Christian after he or she has died.So that's an accent that I wanted to bring at the close of this particular subject. I hope it is helpful to you.



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* * * * * >> JOSHUA: How does a pastor conduct a Christian burial rite in circumstances other than burial? Let's say a soldier missing and presumed killed in action or the victim of an intense fire for which no body is recovered? The destruction of the twin towers in New York City in 2001 comes to mind.>> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: Joshua, we have to be prepared to address the question which you put about Christian burial in these very unusual circumstances. I believe that our perception, normal perception is somewhat narrow. We at least here in the Midwest, we commonly think of funeral services where the remains are in the service, either brought into the church or the funeral chapel and then we go from there and the burial plot in the cemetery and that seems all well and ordinary, but your question raises our attention and draws our attention to circumstances which we need to consider and we need to grapple with because they're very real and perhaps more so in our current age than in former times.Let's begin with the cremation issue. This is a little bit different, as well. And then we'll come a little bit more specific to the examples that you raised. But when the body has been cremated and the remains, let us say, are kept as ashes and placed in a receptacle of a kind or an urn, or whatever, in some instances, a committal and a burial rite can be spoken at a cemetery because our experience is that some folks, even though the body's been cremated, the ashes are going to be placed in a burial site. And then we can read the burial rite pretty much as it is written in our

"Pastor's Companion" or the "Lutheran Worship Little Agenda," those will be your sources here. However, when the cremated remains are placed into a crypt in a mausoleum, let us say, somewhere, the committal saying is going to be varied somewhat because we're not committing those remains to the bosom of the earth and that sort of thing. We might be simply saying "we commit his or her body to the elements in the hope of restoration to eternal life." That's a suggested committal saying from the volume "The Shepherd Under Christ," another pastoral theology work.But now to your questions. When the body has not been cremated, has been placed in a crypt at a mausoleum and the family gathers, let us say, in the chapel for a brief service, the remains are not present or when the remains have been ushered to a final resting place without a burial rite, let us say in a distant city or the remains are donated to science, another circumstance, then the reading of the committal serves as a close to the memorial service or the funeral service -- well, it would be a memorial service in this instance, not a funeral service because the remains are not present -- I hope I'm not confusing you, Josh, altogether -- but we're addressing the situation where we have a memorial service but the remains are not present, all right? That's the setting. Then the reading may simply commend the mortal remains to God in the hope of the resurrection to eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ. Notice references to the ground, the earth to earth ashes to ashes dust to dust phraseology in that committal reading, that phrase is omitted. But the other reading that prays that "the triune God may keep these remains unto the day of the resurrection of all flesh," those phrases may certainly be kept.Tragic death of one kind or another which leaves no bodily remains intact, you mentioned in your question, fire or explosion, yes, the twin tower incident in New York City on 9/11, soldiers whose remains may not be recovered from the battle field, air crashes, drowning at sea and those kind of situations, still, in memory of a Christian taken in those unusual circumstances calls for a statement of committal. And this can be done properly at the close of a memorial service, which we presume would be conducted, and then the wording, as we indicated before, can be tailored in a manner appropriate. We can read the introductory or preliminary paragraphs and the Scriptures out of our Agenda and our burial rites in the normal way. But then the actual committal wording will differ. Perhaps I can just provide a sample verbally here which you can probably recover in a later presentation. "for as much as it has pleased Almighty God in His wise Providence to take out of the world the soul of our departed brother or sister, we therefore commend his or her mortal remains to God in the hope of the resurrection to eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ who will change our lowly bodies so that they will be raised in likeness to his

glorious body" and so on. And then the phraseology "may God the Father, who has created this body, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit keep these remains unto the day of the resurrection of all flesh."So the variations are there. They're not terribly significant, perhaps, but an alert pastor will vary that committal reading depending upon the circumstances as you have indicated in your question.



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* * * * * >> ERIC: I realize I'm about to change our direction. I hope that's okay. We spent some time in this course talking about the issues surrounding specific sins. We've referred to homosexuality, domestic abuse, adultery and other sins. I think the question I'm about to ask overarches these specific sins. Which principles should guide a pastor in the admonishment of a Christian who has sinned and has not repented or is currently living in sin? When do we, as pastors, speak up? And how specific should we be in our preaching about sins?

>> DR. WARNECK: The subject you raise, Eric, can be very helpful to our life together as Christians and in Christ's church. And unfortunately the matter of sin, sinfulness and the way in which the Christian community addresses those things has been lost, frankly, in many settings, I think to the weakness of the church. So your question is very well put and very well taken and let's see if we can address ourselves to a number of your concerns.

I picked up on the last part of your question really kind of -- it piqued my attention. How does the pastor address sins from the pulpit? I want to say that I doubt that it's very appropriate for a pastor to even make subtle allusions in his public preaching to what might be perceived by the parishioners in the pew as a reference to a particular person whom the congregation is somewhat aware has been overtaken by a sin, one kind or another; that is, by a public sin. So my first response is somewhat of a

disclaimer, if you don't mind, Eric. It's very ill advised for a pastor to address from the pulpit publicly either admonishment or anything else relative to a situation that may be common knowledge in the congregation.

The ministry that you're speaking of is what we call church discipline. We mean by that term the ministry of the church to, on the one hand admonish a public sin when it occurs in the community but always with a view toward absolution, forgiveness and restoration. Church discipline always moves in that direction.

The reason I emphasize that at the outset is there are perceptions among some of our lay Christians that church discipline is simply the heavy hand of the law and judgment coming down on people. And some perceptions are even more extreme, the notion that church discipline is simply axing people out of the church.

It's unfortunate that church discipline is equated in the minds of some with excommunication. Now in the process of admonishment and discipline, it can come to excommunication, but in no way should this ministry, which is really the Lord's gift through the office of the keys, should ever be perceived as excommunication itself or equated with the same.

So having said that and kind of clearing the air just a little bit, let's move with some particulars here. There are two kinds of sin that this ministry of church discipline deals with. And the first is, as I said before, a public sin of a somewhat egregious nature. Most frequently we're talking about sins of the flesh as the apostle names those things in I Corinthians 6 and Galatians 5, fornication, adultery, homosexual behaviors, you mentioned, sodomy, open anger and strife, thievery, covetousness and greed, carousing, drunkenness and so on. Okay. Sins which if let alone to run their course can really threaten the Christian faith of an individual Christian. So the church is concerned about that and addresses that sin.

The other sin that church discipline deals with is the public teaching of error, of false doctrine. You know Moses counselled and the same counsel is picked up as late as the Book of Revelation Chapter 22: You shall not add to the word which I command you nor take from it that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. So the neither adding to nor taking from, most errors in doctrine and in public teaching in the church fall somewhere between those two issues, the taking from the truth or adding to the truth, whatever.

Most of the time the church is thinking about public teachers, professors at the church's universities or at the church's seminaries who may get off base and teach falsely. However, Eric, you want to be alert to individuals in a local Christian congregation. Occasionally a person is misled or he or she is an attracted to one of the nonchristian sects, for instance, Jehovah's witnesses, Mormonism and that sort of thing, cults and the like and fascinated with these non-Christian sects, a Christian can

become very confused but also very impassioned about what he or she is hearing and come back to the Christian congregation. The first thing you know, the pastor and maybe other members are suspecting that this individual is beginning to advocate some of the teaching of these erring sects or cults. And that situation would call for church discipline and admonishment in that instance. The apostolic church was dealing with public false teaching. The indications are there in Titus 3 and 1 Timothy 6, 1 Timothy 1. So today's church should be alert to that possibility of sin within the camp, as it is sometimes said. And it is God to judges the wicked outside the church but God asks the church to deal with public sin among its own, either immoral behavior or false teaching, whatever the case may be.

There are Scripture passages that direct the church to both of these needs for admonishment and discipline. I won't read them. Leviticus 19:17 and Matthew 18:15 and Luke Chapter 17, verse 3. "If your brother sins, rebuke him; if he repents forgive him." Here, the passages are speaking about that office of the keys, to where the authority that the Lord gives to the church to either forgive sins or retain sins, in the instance of nonrepentance.

All right. There are passages that refer not only to admonishment but to restoration, James 5:19-20, Galatians 6:1, "If any be overtaken in a trespass, you who are spiritual restore one." Okay. And 2 Thessalonians 3:15. Those passages are available to you in some of the other sources that you'll be studying on this subject.

So attending to church discipline, admonishment and loving brotherly restoration, the church is exercising its authority, the office of the keys and a church is well advised to do just that.

If a congregation -- and maybe led by the pastor -- simply closes its eyes to public sin within its midst or false teaching, whatever the case may be, that congregation stands to be weakened by that laid back approach. It does not make for a strong Christian fellowship to tolerate sin within the camp.



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>> DAVID: What is the purpose of such admonishment or discipline? And how does the church go about such a ministry? I try to ask that carefully. I believe such admonishment should be ministerial in nature, but I'll admit that I'm not sure how to accomplish that. I'm nervous about balancing law and Gospel, about reaching out with both conviction and love at the same time.

>> DR. WARNECK: David, your sensitivities are to be commended. I think very highly of the way you put that question because you are certainly aware that any steps the church takes in discipline of an individual can be misconstrued either by the church or by the person on the receiving end of that care as the heavy hand of the law. And I appreciated your suggestion, at least, in the question that the Gospel really should prevail in this ministry and, indeed, that's very good and you're really on to some beautiful care and pastoral practice for your people.

The purpose of church discipline, as we comprehend it, as part of the ministry of the office of the keys is ever and only restoration of a repentant sinner in the strength of the forgiveness of sins through our Lord Jesus Christ. This is where we really want to move people. What stands in their way frequently is not only the sin itself that, of course, is so diminishing, public sin of one form or another, but it occasionally is unrepentance or insensitivity or just plain belligerence on the part of some Christians when

they have fallen into great and grievous sin.So the church attempts to surround them and embrace them with the

good word of the Gospel. Certainly the word of the law that is honest in its assessment of what has happened. And we try to help them see the sin for what it is. It's offensiveness. Not only to their fellow man, to themselves, but how all of this offends and disappoints our holy and gracious God. But then to come with the Gospel of forgiveness.

Okay. So we're attempting to move people toward restoration. How to go about this ministry? The Lord has given us a paradigm or a pattern in Matthew Chapter 15. In fact, his words are explicit and he really has three sayings here that will guide us along the way. Let's look at them briefly and make a comment or two. And I think things will fall in place in answer to your question about how the church should proceed.

First, Jesus says in verse 15, "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone." The subject here may be a fault between two Christians, yes, but the larger application would be the circumstances we've been dealing with, namely public sin in the church. It can be that, as well.

So the object here is to gain the brother through repentance and then restoration through the Gospel, as we've said. But the pastor takes an approach here that is a bit hands off at this point, let me suggest, David. And perhaps I can explain with an example, if you will.

A person comes to you and wants to meet with you and declares, "Pastor, did you hear about so-and-so in our congregation? Why, last Saturday night, he was seen coming out of a bar, and he had a woman on each arm as he was exiting this place where there's drinking and carousing and so on." So the person reporting this to the pastor wants the pastor, now, to get up and go out and take the initiative and confront this man.

What did Jesus say? If your brother sins, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. Now here's an individual comes to the pastor with some amount of hear say complicated by some innuendos. And the pastor will not just simply take that report at face value and act on it and go out and search for this supposed man who came out of the bar on Saturday night and confront him and everything else. The first thing he'll say is, to the person who came with the report, "This is your fellow Christian. And you have heard this. Have you gone to this individual? Have you spoken with him about what looks to be maybe kind of a seemy thing going on?" If the individual backs off, "Oh, no, I haven't done that," well, the pastor might encourage the individual to exercise Christian care in the first person before coming and asking the pastor to get involved. I think the pastor's in his rights to direct this reporting individual in that way.

So the point here is that individual Christians care for one another when they observe what might appear to be public sin in one another's

lives. That's the first point. The only exception to this, or a couple of exceptions might be for instance, David, when the church has a Christian school and the children are there during the school hours five days a week and a boy or girl in the sixth or seventh grade comes upon a situation on the playground or in the buildings and it appears to these children that there is something not savory about how a couple of teachers might be conducting themselves. It's very difficult for children to admonish their superiors even though they are fellow Christians. They might come to the pastor and the pastor might, then, act upon a report like that and just make an inquiry as a shepherd to the children and a shepherd to the teachers and the people involved.

It might also be true for an employee, say a customs towed I don't know on the premises sees another employee in the church in some unsavory situation. Once again, it's difficult for employees in a setting like that, so the pastor might get involved. But those would be some unusual circumstances. Normally we ask an individual Christian who is concerned about the life of another children to counsel and admonish themselves.

All right. That brings us to Jesus' second saying, "But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses." Okay. Let's say the individual, being admonished, blows off the concern of his or her fellow Christian, then maybe it's time to get a couple of other Christians involved. And by the term "witness" here, as Luther has commented on this subject, it does not necessarily mean that the others have to be witness to a particular action. The term witness may be that these other Christians can attest to the care that the first Christian gave to the erring individual and witness in that regard.

So the purpose, then, is beyond one Christian, two or three, and the impact of their concern, their admonishment urging a person in sin to repent and to avail themselves of the forgiveness of God, that's step two.

Okay. Now, let's say a husband comes home from work and has dinner with his wife, which she has prepared for him and their two teenage daughters, and at 7:00 after dinner, goes down the street one block, two blocks down the next way and he stays overnight with his mistress. Comes back in the morning, 6:00, showers up, goes off to work. Does this two or three times ray week. Fellow Christians are aware of it. And he's been admonished by a number of his fellow Christians, step two. Belligerent. Isn't going to change. None of your business. Then perhaps it's time to tell this matter to the church, as Jesus says in his third step. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, let it be to you a Gentile and a tax collector," verse 17.

Okay. So we're moving along in procedure here, if you will, David. This third and final step in admonition follows upon persistent denial of the

sin or persistent impenitence by the erring person. The matter is brought to the church, which in our modern times may be the voter's assembly or perhaps the board of elders. But the matter is brought there and then the church takes action. And the procedure is that they invite the erring person to meet with them to confront the erring person with the sin and the obvious impenitence and with a view to helping this individual really get the point that persisting in what he or she is doing can be deleterious to their Christian faith. In fact, if they persist in belligerent sin and deliberate sin, they may even lose their faith. So the church is very concerned about them. And that's the purpose for this meeting.

Now, let's emphasize before it comes to this, we can go back to steps 1 and 2. This procedure that Jesus sets out in Matthew 18 is not strike one, strike two, strike three and you're out. It isn't that at all. The church can take its time, be patient. Those involved in step two and step one before can be encouraged to continue to work with the erring person. But perhaps something has to happen for the welfare of this individual.

When the church meets on this matter and finally things are kind of coming to a head, there are three things that are established when the church takes this matter up and the first is that the sin itself is established and verified, that is. Secondly, that the care fellow Christians have given in the past has actually happened. And that should be verified and established. And, thirdly, the unfortunate response of the erring individual needs to be established; namely, his or her impenitence. And that's the thing that needs to be dealt with. There apparently is no softening of the heart. There is no evidence of contrition. And, so the church cannot announce the absolution. In fact, it's coming to a point where the church's hands are tied, not able to say "your sins are forgiven." it may have to say because of your impenitence, your sins are not forgiven and you're pursuing the life of a non-Christian.

And, finally, then, if that's the case, the church proceeds in the direction of excommunication, which is a public declaration that an erring Christian who has resisted the care offered by the church in the name of the Lord Jesus and for the sake of the Gospel is essentially not a Christian anymore, at least not as can be evidenced by his life and what he says and by what he is doing.

And, finally, the church may have to say that and comes to that very last step. But even then we should understand that the effect of excommunication, should it ever come to that, is on behalf of the erring person, that he or she might really get the point, finally, that the way he or she is living their life is simply not Christian. And instead of being helpful, very harmful to himself or herself.

Okay. So I have outlined just in very brief sketch the procedure of church discipline, which our churches follow in instances of admonishment

and hopefully restoration. But short of that, the other direction of excommunication.

This we should add in closing on this particular point. If at any time in a procedure like this an erring person wants to come to the pastor, let us say. And you're the pastor, David, and the person comes to you and says, "Pastor, I'm really weary of everything. And I also am sorry about it all. And I'd really like to get this all straightened out." and the pastor responds in a helpful way, "Well let's do just that, my friend. Let's get this thing straightened out. Let's lay the cards on the table. What are we dealing with here? We're dealing with sin, which can be so destructive for you. And the church has extended her care for you." And the person responds and says, "That's right, pastor, I really think I see the point now and I'd like to just say I am sorry and I am repentant and I want you to know that. And I've had a turnaround and I want to be received back into the fellowship and good standing. I don't want to be on the outside of things. And I want to straighten this out." The pastor speaks the absolution. God bless in the name of Jesus, your sins are forgiven. Let's go on from here. Those sins are removed as far as the east is from the west. And the pastor can then report this action to the board of elders or even the voters' Assembly, and that settles the matter. The person has repented. After all, that's the object of the whole disciplinary procedure. That's happened. Praise the Lord. And we go on from there.

I just wanted to add that because somehow we need to convey to these people who are being admonished that that open door is there. And your style of pastoral ministry, David, will probably communicate that better than anything, that a person being admonished in the church always has the opportunity to come across that threshold and sit down with you as their shepherd and get this matter settled. So I wish you God's blessings in this ministry. When you see the Gospel at work in these situations, David, that's the greatest thing in the world.



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>> ERIC: I know you have already spoken a number of times about excommunication, but would you be willing to briefly review this subject?

>> DR. WARNECK: Excommunication. Red flag. Word that's terribly charged with much feeling and emotion and, unfortunately, negative emotion. Sad thing when a matter comes to this point because it's the church's affirmation of a negative result that we never intended to happen, that a Christian who has sinned in a public way has not, for all of the care that the church has attempted to give, has not repented and perhaps is more entrenched and more belligerent than ever. That's a sad time.

And, yet, the church has to reckon with that and to say, as Jesus indicates in Matthew 18 that such an individual is really not part of the community of faith. So the church, then, acts publicly in saying that and declaring that the individual is no longer a part of the Christian community. The act of excommunication.

What leads up to that is that whole process of care. And we just walked through those steps again from the time that the fall of a Christian becomes known, an individual Christian may reach out to rescue an erring Christian. If that's of no avail, other Christians come to the fore and other individuals reach out to the individual; and if that is of no avail, then the church does. And then if that is of no avail, the church has no alternative except to declare the individual under the major ban is what we're speaking

of here.The minor ban in our pastoral theology terminology is that term,

minor ban, is the action of the pastor, maybe in an instance like we're speaking of during the course of that would have to say to an individual, "if you're not repentant and you're going to continue sinning deliberately, it's not well for you to attend the Lord's Supper. You may be taking of the good blessing of the Lord and His forgiveness through His body and blood, and you would risk simply profaning that which the Lord wants to give and wants to do for you. And it would not be good for you for the pastor to permit you to continue to do that under these circumstances. So maybe it would be well to stay away from the Lord's Supper for now."

That's supposed to have a Sol you Terry effect on this erring Christian, and the pastor exercises that minor ban. But now we're speaking about something different here. The matter has gone kind of to the close. And the congregation exercises the major ban, which is what we're speaking about, excommunication.

We should discuss briefly how the church goes about this. Well, most of the time the church comes together and there is a resolution put before the assembly. And by unanimous vote, the congregation declares this individual excommunicated.

If there are persons in the Assembly -- and many times there is in these situations who object to the whole procedure and they're going to raise a lot of static and they're going to obstruct the church from taking action which probably it should take -- then those individuals should be held accountable either to go, once again, to the erring party and you see how you can help this individual confront his or her sin so that the church and the pastor can speak the absolution or restore the individual. But they don't want to do that, let us say. They simply want to obstruct the proceedings. Well, our former practice would say then those individuals should be admonished for that.

So, when you have a real belligerent situation and the church must necessarily act, then nothing should obstruct that. And the church takes its vote. And the action is done. And, really, I don't know if it's feasible today in modern times, but in former times, this action was reported in the worship services the following Sunday with a prayer for the person excommunicated just extending the church's care just one more step.

But then questions arose about how does the church respond to a person who's been excommunicated? Oh, boy, is this ever a sensitive subject area, Eric. I could tell you some communities of the old German Lutherans years ago. Let's say a certain county where there are numerous Lutheran congregations. In fact, 70 percent of the community are Lutheran people. If a person was excommunicated from one of those congregations, for all practical purposes, socially he or she was ostracized. Terrible thing.

So a pastor has to counsel Christians in the congregation, "look, the church took the action in the instance of an erring individual, excommunicated him or her, but we should not withhold from that person common courtesy. Christian love still is the supreme virtue, as St. Paul indicated in I Corinthians 13, the supremacy of Christian love. So excommunication doesn't give any of us the right to pile on with unloving and unkind gestures and isolation and the like, no. Let us show Christian courtesy and kindness to such an individual. That may be blessed somehow."

May a person excommunicated attend the worship services? Pastors take different positions on this. Some pastors believe following the instance in I Corinthians 5 where the Apostle Paul first asked the Corinthian congregation to deal fiercely with the man who was found to be in an incestuous relationship with his stepmother: Put the guy out!

You notice later in second Corinthians, you have a different tact on that where Paul is urging the congregation to restore that fallen individual, presumably there was some repentance that occurred in there.

So our position is and my view is: It's only the view of one, but we should permit the individual to attend worship services and hear the Word of God. I don't believe the Holy Spirit's going to work in that life, if that life is so predisposed to come back to church, let them be there. Let him hear the Word of God, let him sing the hymns and let him join in the prayers, fine. That could be something very positive.

Coming to the Lord's table? That would be a different matter. It would seem there the minor ban ought to be still in place until the individual comes and is actually repented of their sins and can avail themselves of that precious gift of the Lord's body and blood there for the remission of those sins.

Okay. These are a couple of side notes on this issue. Now, there's one more thing to say here, particularly in our contemporary times. What we've been speaking about here may be viewed as very impractical and very unlikely to happen. That's possible. We're living in a culture of fierce individualism. And perhaps it is true. When a person is admonished, they will sooner thumb their noses at the church and say, "well, if that's the way you feel about things, I'm picking up my marbles and I'm leaving. That's it. That's the end. Bye. Don't contact me any farther." So they bolt, so to speak. All right. That can occur. Then the church will have to figure out ways, maybe over time, things settle down, the dust settles a little bit, to initiate communication with an erring person like that. Maybe they will be effective, maybe they won't.

But what I really want to address here is where a person stays in the situation but is very resistant to the care that the church is offering. Here is how this goes. Christian in the congregation is being admonished. A

Christian in the congregation is being admonished by fellow Christians and the response is "hey, this is none of your business! What I do in my life is my business and that's no concern of yours. And that's the way it's going to be. So I'm going to stay in this church. I'm a member of the church. But I'm going to do just what I want to do. After all, what I do, what I say is only between me and God. Certainly not between me and you, people in the church. It's between me and God alone."

Well, how do we respond to that kind of very volatile attitude. Well, I think there is a response and it's this. Here's an individual overtaken in public sin and the church responds and says "well, my friend, it's very true that you, as you say, as all of us have to say, we are responsible. It is between us and God, indeed. But, friend, I want you to know that the same Lord to whom we are all responsible has given the authority to his church to declare sins forgiven. And if you are saying to us that you'll confess your sins whenever you wish to God, well then why not confess them also to the Christian church? Whom the Lord has given not only the right and privilege but also the authority to declare that in his name that sins be forgiven and forgotten? Why don't you accord the church that opportunity so that the church can be at peace over this matter and you can be at peace over the matter?"

So, Eric, what I'm trying to say is the caring congregation should not just be rebuffed so easily. The church in its ministry is in its rights to care for an individual. And perhaps in some way this can be communicated to the erring Christian, and all of them can be at peace eventually as members of the same Lord Jesus Christ.



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>> NICK: I truly hope I will rarely find myself in a position of having to think about ex communicating someone in my congregation, but I'm absolutely certain I'm going to have to deal with members who are no longer participating in the life and worship of the church. How should a pastor and congregation help lapsed members back to joyful hearing of the word and eager partaking of the sacrament?

>> DR. WARNECK: Your question, Nick, is really on target with a challenge to congregations across our land. So many of our fellow Christians are becoming lapsed Christians, if you will, and right in our own midst. And your concern about helping these people back to a faithful use of the means of grace that God has given us and faithful attention to his Word and Sacrament is a very great concern.

Properly these persons should be admonished according to Matthew 18. The third commandment bids Christians in the new age as well as the believers under the old covenant to remember the sacred day. And these folks just go week in and week out and forsake the sacred day and the sacred things. And our concern is to their own disfavor, to their own hurt and harm.

Okay. Now, the numbers of these persons are so great in many of our congregations that caring for them according to Matthew 18 and following those three steps that we outlined in a previous discussion is almost impossible. In some of our very large congregations, we have as

many as 600 of these people who are rarely seen in the worship services and rarely ever come to the Lord's Supper even though years ago they were catechized, they were confirmed and they are, of course, baptized Christians. Some churches deal with this problem this way. They place these persons on an inactive, separate membership list.

Some congregations consider these individuals as prospects for their evangelism ministry. That's another approach.

Other congregations simply at the end of the year take 100 or so of these inactive Christians and simply drop their names right off the membership list and that's the end of it.

Well, is there a better way? I think there is. We sometimes plead that these people, by their absence from worship service and the Lord's table, have essentially excluded themselves. This is not the better way in which I want to lead to, but I want to bring this up because it is something of another approach but it's a little bit different. That approach leaves room for a lot of rationalizations on the part of the frustrated active congregation that seems to be thwarted and inable to deal with this difficulty. And the rationalizations go like this. "well, if these folks are not there, they're simply excluding themselves, and all we have to do is make public recognition of the fact and drop them from the membership list."

The question we raise here, Nick, is: Have these persons actually self-excluded? Are they self-excluded? Have they removed themselves? And what have they removed themselves from? Would be our question. And what I'm leading to is to suggest that the congregation should take some special initiatives for and on behalf of this group of inactive Christians that are somewhat out of the ordinary. If we really do care for these people. If they simply don't attend the worship service at the hours of 8:00 and 10:30 on a Sunday morning and they don't commune at those times, certainly they're not there, they are absent, but to confront them and to admonish them and say to them "you're sinning against the third commandment and you're depriving yourself of the good things that God wants to give and the Gospel, please come back." well, they don't come back. They may make some promises but they don't come, they don't show up at the regular times that the church is offering, let the church develop some other opportunities for these persons to respond. This is my point.

And what I'm leading around to is the suggestion that every local congregation create a member refresher little class, four or six sessions, let us say, that would be an opportunity for these lapsed Christians to come in, to recover the meaning of their baptism, recover the meaning of church membership and to recover how they really are related to their fellow Christians in this place, to recover the disciplines of using the Scriptures in their daily life, daily devotions and to recover and cherish the preaching of

the word and the sacraments.I call this suggestion a member renewal class. I can present it

maybe in another way in another format. But I'm giving the contours of it.For instance, if we offer such an opportunity not only on Sunday, but

let us say we offer it Thursday evening, we offer it Saturday morning, we offer it Sunday evening, we go out of our way for a four to six-week span of time, maybe three times a year and offer this little class. People can come to it in a nonthreatening environment. Those who lead the class, pastor and others, are very friendly. We provide some refreshments. We make it a joyful, relaxed experience for these folks. The church is really caring for them. That's what we're trying to demonstrate. And we hope that the Holy Spirit, through a little bit of teaching here and a little bit of reteaching, that some re-learning takes place and some recovery takes place.

Okay. You know, this kind of a program can take on a life of its own. And once it's repeated, the word gets around and it's a pleasant experience, you see a lot of these people stay away from church, why? Oh, some of them are distracted, by sports, by other activities on the weekend, ah, but a lot of them stay away, we have discovered, because they were offended in some manner. They got their toes stepped on. Got into a conflict with another member of the church. Conflict with a pastor. These kind of things.

When you provide an opportunity for the people to come and get beyond those hurt feelings in a comfortable, nonthreatening environment, I tell you, this kind of opportunity has great possibilities.

Now, if the inactive Christian does not respond and refuses this initiative that the church takes, special initiative for him, for her and a few others, whoo, then he or she certainly has self-excluded themselves or excluded themselves from the care of the church. Because the church has demonstrably cared for them. And they're keeping out of it and they're staying away. They're resistant to it. Then the church might say well, we're not going to make any judgment about whether the individual's a Christian or not. But the church finally has to say "it's very obvious that this person is not a Christian with us in this place." then they might drop the individual from membership and let them know the same. And the church goes on.

But, Nick, I simply wanted to advance the suggestion that the church has to take some special initiatives and reach out to these lapsed Christians with the power of the spirit and the Word of God and giving them that opportunity, may the Lord bless.



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>> JOSH: There aren't a lot of churches out here in Wyoming, but every now and then we all get asked to become involved in community causes. What is a proper Lutheran approach when it comes to community affairs? What can we as a congregation do? What can I counsel congregation members to feel comfortable doing?>> Great question, Josh, because especially in a sparsely populated area like you're in, the reputation of a congregation is going to be clearly visible on the part of all the outsiders, those who are not members. And so the way you interact with the community affairs is going to be very visible. It really, I would say, is part of the extension of your evangelism and your outreach in those communities which have, among them, even though they're sparsely populated, quite a number of unchurched people.So you want to take a prominent role. You don't want to sit on the side lines when you're being asked to participate in the community affairs.Now, as you know, we've already talked about church fellowship issues. We must make a distinction, however, between those things which belong to the essence of the church, the marks of the church, namely the proclamation of the word and the administration of the sacraments, in other words, public church services no matter where they occur; and on the other hand, works of Christian charity and Christian love.

The fathers in our church call this cooperation in externals. The internals, the essentials, are the marks of the church: The word and the sacraments. The externals, those works of Christian charity and love, are what flow from these internal things, from these core things.So when it comes to Christian charity and compassion, certainly our congregations would want to be part of these things. If there's an effort, for example, in your community to address drug abuse or to care for the needy, I think our congregations, our Lutheran congregations would want to be right there in the forefront participating in them.We want to be good neighbors in every way that we can so that the Gospel has a good reputation, that the Lutheran proclamation of the truth of the Word of God could be clearly heard by those who are observing the kinds of works of Christian faith and charity that we're exhibiting there in the community.So definitely I think there's a place for such kind of activity. And I would encourage members of my congregation also to volunteer their time in participating with such public service opportunities.



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>> ERIC: We have lots of churches here in New Jersey. I'm wondering about how far we should go when it comes to interchurch relations. Is it right for Lutheran pastors to participate in Bible studies or theological meetings with pastors of other denominations? May I lead a civic meeting such as our town council in prayer? Can our congregation work together with other local Christian churches in social ministries such as meals for the homeless or a local pregnancy support center?>> PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL: Well, Eric, part of the answer to your question I've already addressed in talking with Josh there in Wyoming, although New Jersey is far different and an your ban community is far different, the same principles apply. In other words, participation in external affairs, that is works of Christian service are always appropriate for our Lutheran congregations. And we want to get involved as we're able in those kinds of public service opportunities.Now, regarding the affairs of the church when it comes to the proclamation of the word, the administration of the sacraments, however, we're on different ground. There we're governed by our church fellowship principles. And so if I'm asked, for example, to participate as one of many clergymen or clergypersons as the case may be in sort of a public service of Thanksgiving at the occasion of Thanksgiving Day, for example, or other kinds of affairs, I'm going to have very serious reservations. Why?

Because I don't want to give the impression that all of these various confessions of the Christian faith are coequal, that die an metrically opposed doctrines can somehow be compromised by participation in such an affair. So I'm going to have questions when I am asked to participate in these things.The general principle is that Lutheran pastors do not participate in such events. Now, the specific question you asked was related to can I lead a civic meeting such as our town council in prayer? A similar situation might arise, say on the occasion of a graduation of a high school class in a public high school. The question I would ask is: How many other pastors are also being invited for that occasion? I would certainly go when I'm asked to such an event if I'm the only pastor. Why? Because as a Christian citizen, as a member of the clergy but as a Christian citizen, I'm simply praying for the Welfare of my community in that kind of an event. I'm not giving the impression that all religions are the same.You see, Eric, these days we live in a very syncratistic time; that is, people have the idea that many roads lead to God. And these days it's not simply a matter of interdenominational relations amongst Christians. But even nonchristian religions are placed in the same par. So that all roads lead to God, be that Buddhist, Islam, Christian, Jewish, whatever, there's only one God and all roads lead to him. This clearly is in conflict with what God teaches us in his word where Jesus says "i am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me."So giving a clear confession to this faith that there is one Lord and one redeemer, Jesus Christ, who by his blood has ransomed people from all nations for himself, it's important that for the sake of that Gospel, we refrain from participating in any kind of event that would compromise that Gospel.Certainly when it comes to social agencies and social ministries, we can participate in all kinds of affairs. We might, for example, participate in efforts to support the unborn and to defend life on all sides of the spectrum. Provided that those efforts do not compromise, again, our principles of Christian fellowship.So, these are the governing principles. What are externals and what belongs to the core of the life of the church, the marks of the church, the Word of God and public prayer, public services, those kinds of things we do not participate in with members of other churches publicly in leadership positions. But in areas in which we're demonstrating Christian compassion and care, of course we participate.I hope this helps. And we can discuss the details in the ongoing aspects of this course.



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* * * * * >> DAVID: Dr. Senkbeil and Warneck, thank you for this very practical course. It's been most helpful and genuinely appreciated. May we make one last request of you? We would like to hear you identify a couple of the overarching principles which can guide pastors as they seek to properly and help fully minister to their congregation and their community.

>> DR. WARNECK: David, we want to say that our time with you and the other students who put questions to us through this entire course has been a delightful time. And I want to say that it's been wonderful to be a partner with Dr. Hal seen being bile from Concordia theological seminary, Fort Wayne, a seasoned pastor, a scholar and also a very fine teacher of the pastoral ministry. To be associated with him and this class has just been marvelous.For you and your colleagues, I would simply say in closing that the pastoral ministry in our Lutheran understanding of it works with principles. And those principles have a foundation in the Word of God as we receive it in the Holy Scriptures and as understood by our Lutheran confessions. A

pastor will be on course if he attempts to confront the varied situations in his ministry from the standpoint of principles rooted in God's word and the overarching principle, of course, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and God's love for us and how that Gospel serves people to strengthen them, uphold them in their Christian faith and life, the means of the Holy Spirit working in them as well as in our ministry. So stay on course with the principles, with the Word. Pray and pray diligently. And as king Solomon did of old, seek wisdom from on high and you'll go well.

>> PROF. SENKBEIL: David, I also want to thank you and all of you who are learning and express my thanks to Dr. Warneck for being a partner in him in this very enjoyable experience, to be able to visit with you about these important things. And I would endorse everything that Dr. Warneck was just saying.Perhaps to capsulize it, it's that formula again that Dr. Luther said regarding the making of the theologian: Prayer, meditation, affliction. The affliction's going to come. It will happen when you proclaim Christ and him crucified. But if you find your source and your root, your sure foundation in that Word of God, which is sure and certain, you meditate upon it daily and you pray accordingly, God will give you the strength which you need to be an effective servant of the word. Many blessings to all of you in the name of Christ our Lord.

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