Elenin Signs and Designs James Horak Expl[1]

8/4/2019 Elenin Signs and Designs James Horak Expl[1]

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Transcript of the interview on Offplanet Radio, August 6th 2011.

Randy Maugans interviews James Horak:

Elenin - Signs and Designs

Welcome once again to OffPlanet Radio, I'm Randy Maugans. The website isoffplanetradio.com or offplanetradio.net or exotica-radio.com if you're a long-

time listener.

I don't have a science background; I'm not a physicist; I'm not an astronomer; Itook an astrophysics course once years ago to fulfill a science credit. And having

said that, we are going to launch into a discussion today on what haseuphemistically been referred to as Comet Elenin. It is a hot topic on the

internet; it's fraught with all types of disinformation, misinformation and I wouldalmost say it has taken on a mythological proportion in the short time that it has

caught our attention.

What is Elenin and how do we address this particular phenomenon? Especially asit's being arrayed in the alternative media, the internet right now. With me onthe line from his home in Texas is my friend, James Horak and you've heard him

before on the show. We're going to talk about Elenin and what James thinks it is

and we're going to try to bring into the mix here, dispelling some of the... what

should I even say?... we talked about this earlier, misinformation,disinformation... the whole bag of wax that is Elenin. We're going to take it apartin this show. This is OffPlanet Radio and I welcome you, I welcome James

Horak. James, welcome.

JH: Thank you, Randy, my pleasure.

RM: James, first off... I guess we'll get it out of the way, we'll define someterms, you know, of what a comet actually is. I went to Wikipedia, not that it's

by any means definitive, but Wikipedia still defines a comet basically as an iceball in space. And one of the other scientists I've followed for a long time, James

McKinney, has defined comets more along the lines of an electrical discharge,

plasma discharge, inside the solar system and inside the galaxy. Can we just geta working definition of comet out of the way before we go into what Elenin itselfactually is?

JH: A comet is a natural body moving through space at a constant rate of speed

on a constant course. It has a tail. And as of the last few weeks Elenin has beenrepresented as having a tail, I don't think it does. I think that's amisrepresentation and that its some clue as to how it's going to be treated as it

comes closer to Earth.

RM: Now we've experienced repeated cometary phenomena over a period of


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time, the most famous, I guess being Halley's Comet. I recall the 1974 Comet

Kohoutek which many people believed to be some harbinger. We later hadHale/Bopp which turned into quite the phenomenon after the Heaven's Gate

fiasco where a cult took their own lives hoping to hitch a ride on the Hale/Bopp

Comet. And now we've got Elenin which has again generated a fair amount ofhysteria and speculation on the internet. I've gotten repeated emails frompeople either speculating or wondering what this phenomenon is that we've

called it a comet... it seems to be a consistent denomination that Elenin is a

comet based on the discovery by the Russian amateur astronomer who

discovered it in December of 2010. So maybe that's kind of a launch pad for usto kind of spin out here and get your take on what you believe Elenin represents

and why so many of the pundits are wrong.

Comet Elenin

JH: One of the things that, for a background, as we approach trying to decide

about Elenin, we need to remember something from the past,Schuhmacher/Levi. And how it was treated, how it actually behaved, these were

supposed comet fragments. They had no tails; they came from deep space; theytraveled in a straight line; and hit the same target over a course of a number of


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days. There was never any mention in the scientific establishment among

astronomers and astrophysicists that this could be under intelligent guidance...this was phenomenal. It tells you what a clamp the powers that be have on what

these people say and divulge. And then we learned later on, from our friend

Kevin Smith, who did some research on why this is true that everything thatthese people, throughout the world, observe in their observatories and fromprobes, is submitted to the Office of Astronomical Telegrams for release before

it's allowed to be released.

So, I wish we'd known that at the time of Schuhmacher/Levi because then theremight have been a lot more discussion on exactly what it was... it definitely was

not a natural body moving through space because when anything fragments,this is supposed to be particles or fragments of a comet, when anything comes

apart, whether its in space or atmosphere, the parts go in different directions.This is just part of fragmentation. But these stayed in a straight line coming in

from deep space, for millions of miles, and hit the same target which was

Jupiter. When it was first discussed, and there was a program on national TV,where these fragments hit, these so called fragments it was right in the eye of astorm on Jupiter and I can remember the program, 20-20, that presented it, itshowed these fragments in an artist's conception, going into this eye of the

storm. But that was too obvious so later on things got changed around where it

hit at different spots on Jupiter. And that's the disingenuous way in which

information is handled and re-tailored to suit a mindset that these people wantto impose on us.

RM: Let me ask you this, who runs the Office of Astronomical Telegrams?

JH: That's real interesting and that's a very good question. I wish I knew. I

could guess that it probably has people from the CIA, NSA, NSC, and maybe

even Naval Intelligence. But people that have been accustomed to keeping a lidon things now ever since 1947.

RM: So the nature of the cometary phenomena has a very specific path, comets

move at a constant speed; they do not vary course. What do we know about

Elenin in regards to this very specific formula?

JH: Well, this is what we basically know. We know that people that you and I

both know, who have inside information and have staked their reputation and

their credibility on portraying Elenin as something other than a comet. But

presumably under intelligent guidance. And these people come out, they've evengone even further than that but they have staked a lot. So you can bet they aregetting their information from somewhere, probably NASA. I firmly believe there

have been attempts from Elenin to communicate with Earth. And that might be

why these people feel so confident in portraying Elenin as something other than

a natural body traveling through space.


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RM: Do we have evidence that the trajectory of Elenin from where it wasoriginally located in December of 2010, has in fact changed not only course but

overtime it's changed speed as well?

JH: Well according to these people that I think do have an insight, do haveinside information, piecemeal though it may be, for these people to come out

with what they have said, yes, I think they do. I think that Elenin is even more

than just under intelligent control; I think that it is a phenomenon in itself. I

think it's large; I think it has altered its course; it would have to... if it's comingtowards a target like our system it has to alter its course since everything moves

in space so you have that. You know, if its trajectory was constant they couldplot its arrival precisely and they haven't been able to do that. That it is

accelerated or decelerated, that's another thing. But I don't think these people,that one in particular, would risk so much if he didn't have information that he

could have confidence in coming from official sources.

RM: So I have not spent a lot of time looking, there has been a great amount ofconfusing information posted as I understand it coming from NASA's websitesand Jet Propulsion Laboratories as well. It seems like they have almost hedged

their bets at least from the public profile as to the behavior of this. And you

know, I always wonder about NASA because NASA always seems to be perfectly

capable of holding multiple opinions at the same time and having very littlescience to back any of it. And science does seem to fail us on one level.

JH: Well, this has been the way all potentially embarrassing anomaly have been

handled like ufology. UFOs have been treated in the same ambivalent mannerbecause they never wanted to really discredit that ET was around. What they

wanted to do was keep that revelation in a holding pattern so when the time

came and it was useful to exploit or opportunize they would be able to define ETfor us and that's what the hostile alien thesis is all about.

RM: So we're here in 2011, in the summer of 2011, we have now gone through,

I believe, eight parts of the Steven Spielberg series, Falling Skies, we saw the

release this week of Cowboys and Aliens, we have on the schedule right now anynumber of motion picture events that are going to be released that seem to besculpting and contouring the idea of the ET and I find it interesting that

Spielberg started out, as most prominent movie being ET, The Extra-Terrestrial,

where we had what we would almost consider to be a cartoon-character type

alien who was friendly, who drew children to himself. Later we seem to moveinto this malevolent mode and we seem to now be moving into the malevolentmode. And I don't have an opinion about this particularly. I have my own

experiences and my own ideas about this. I'm about probing the truth and trying

to find out why our opinions are being manipulated.


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JH: Well that's exactly what's going on with Elenin. It's a ball of wax. You have

to understand, social engineers constantly poll public opinion and they take theirdrift from what they get as feedback from public opinion polls. And so they're

angling this as time goes on. Now if they think they can sell a hostile alien thesis

to the people, then they can get us all to buy another bullet, to give up nationalsovereignty even more, to allow more and more infringement on our personalliberties, and to suffer another degree of loss of our standard of living. That's all

part of the game with these people. The rape of the United States and other

industrial nations economically has been an ongoing project, has been intended.

Economists no longer discuss the principles of sound economy anymore thanscientists discuss the most significant salient tool for determining causal effects

from observations, probability. So we have a loss of scientific determination bothin astrophysics and both in economics. All of which are designed to lead people

away from being able to think for themselves and independently conclude whatthe information and what the evidence points to.

RM: In our previous interview we talked about your thesis and you presented inthat show, and you presented it a very long period of time now, as well on yourown website, emvsinfo.blogspot.com and we'll put a link up with the show onthat. I just want people to know that you have documented a lot of information.

So, in that show, we are using ambiguous terms a lot of times as well because

we are using terms that have been defined for us. You broke out the idea that

basically what we refer to as ET were, on the broad scale, not malevolent, thatwhat we have been witnessing for the last fifty or sixty years were, in terms ofthe abductions, were not extra-terrestrial but, in fact, were extra-biological-

entities or EBEs. All of these terms kind of play into the ambiguity as well, from

my position in that we don't understand who's out there, what's out there andwhat their intentions are towards humankind.

JH: That's right. It's very important to make distinctions between ET and EBEbecause EBEs are not sentient. They were designed for deep space travel by a

civilization that no longer exists as a civilization that we would understand. Andthere was a contingent of these EBEs, more or less abandoned, that became

problematic, not just in this area of the galaxy, but in others. And eventually

sentient species, ETs decided they had to remove them. And this is the lastrefuge for these EBEs. They're problematic, they're struggling to hide or toescape ET. And they've taken up, in their impish way, a relationship with

military intelligence here and they provide a very limited aspect of technology

because, bear in mind, these are creatures that are designed solely for space

exploration, recovery of data and sending it back to where they came from. Andthey're not scientists, not even good technicians, they can keep things runningand that's basically all they are. They are chunks of meat sewn together with a

computer terminal. That's it.

RM: We have definitions we have to continue to define. I will draw you back


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again to the difference between... because the EBEs are not unintelligent; they

are intelligent as we define intelligence in terms of processing information;acting in accordance with a logical pattern. That is not the same as sentience so

maybe we can define sentience a little bit.

JH: Sentience is a full compliment of thought that originates from the sourcethat has it. It has cognition; it has emotion; it has a sense of determination,

both moral and causal, which EBE doesn't have. EBE doesn't have any of these

qualities. They are linked into computer central and they are purely task-driven

without emotion. EMVs are task-driven but they have emotion and that's theirlanguage. They communicate with emotion very beautifully. But EBEs haven't

that. They are utterly not sentient and they are devoid of the emotions,empathy... whatever. They are not malignant, but as ETspecifies they are

problematic; they are impish and they remove them every chance they get.

RM: Now, on the order of the ETs, and, again, I don't like the term; I think it is

fraught with peril. But we lack, we seem to lack a language that seems to definebeings beyond our scope right now. So we use the term ET in a very broadsense and the reason we are talking about this is because it all connects back toElenin. And the nature of Elenin and the nature of humanity's relationship to,

what I guess we would consider to be, a higher order of intelligence within the

solar system, the galaxy and the universes.

Where in the spectrum, do the sentient beings that we have had contact with onthis planet since the inception of this planet... look, I think there is enough

documentation to realize that if you just look at the histories, the ones that have

been suppressed; the mythologies are especially useful for this because theyhave been more preserved. That we have had contact with beings outside of our

own creational sphere for millenia, certainly. So, we have a spectrum of beings

and we're talking about them in the broadest terms, which is the ETs and theETs have been labeled very broadly as either malevolent or benevolent. Can we

talk a little about how we define that and then how we define the intelligencethat may be guiding Elenin?

JH: All ETs that have reached Earth, even our system, are part of an extendedcommunity. This extended community has principles that govern its conducttowards everyone else, they are accepted universally and easily accepted

because, when you have the technology to travel from one star system to

another, you have the potential to place in one hand, one individual, the ability

to destroy a planet. You cannot tolerate aberrance, either individually orcollectively and so the entire structure of the society that possesses thistechnology has to change. And if a society develops to a level nearing where we

are, that does not remove individual and collective aberrance; it is put down. It

is as simple as that.


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RM: Are we at a critical point in our civilization right now where we have a

decision coming?

JH: Yes.

RM: Is that part of the phenomenon of Elenin that we are...

JH: Yes, yes...

RM: You want to go into a little to what has been communicated to you, yourunderstanding of the intelligence, the message behind Elenin, that they may be

bearing were we to hear them?

JH: It was an effort to demonstrate the presence of the EMVs to let people knowthat there was an intelligence that was powerful and directed that was friendly

and even vital. This did not do the trick. It did not do the trick because of

tricksters. Tricksters in the form of social engineers and the people that runthings on this planet that only want to think of the presence of ET and anythingthat is from off-Earth in terms of extended intelligence, as malevolent... to use,to use to further their own agendas.

Agendas that are mindlessly suicidal. And I say this on the basis of anything you

start that ends in the inevitability that leads to where no one would want to liveon the planet, is suicide and that is what you are doing. The social engineersthat work for the powers that be have lost being in touch, to any extent, with

reality. They have deserted probability; the most useful tool of science; they

have no moral core, no setting, no sense of causal reality directly relating totheir actions. It's like mad men who are not only not capable of observing reality

in terms that are concrete, but also are mindless in the objective they are driven

to out of a sense of desperation.

RM: The message is coming from, I guess what you would call, the universalintelligence... in other words this collective. If I can use that term, there is an

agreement within the higher beings of the universe that mankind has reached

this threshold where we are technologically advancing in exponential ratio but atthe same time our morality, I guess our ability to discern good from evil, whatwould be more correctly said, there is a control grid in place on the Earth that

has ensnared the minds of men. Do they not have the ability to interact with us

in a more direct way or they doing so and have those messages been

suppressed?

JH: They have, some have still gotten through. A gentleman who was a former

state legislator, Henry McElroy Jr., made a public statement and a video on

youtube which he shared what he had seen of a briefing concerning President

Eisenhower's meeting with ET. And the concern was the EBEs, getting rid of


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them. The ETs offered to get rid of them but the military thought that, since the

ETs would not share technology with them and the EBEs would, which has doneus no good, that, no, let's keep these critters around, these slime balls because,

you know it edifies a very narrow interest that is concerned basically with an

obsession to get there before anyone else does.

How many times have we seen monstrosities come about because we were so

fearful the Russians would get it first? So we went ahead and worked on

something as insane as the neutron bomb, a hydrogen bomb etc., etc.,...

because we wanted to be sure we got there first. This never ends; it is asickness. If you solve problems economically and politically; if you have true

diplomacy, you can eliminate the need for these obsessive mindsets.

RM: You and I both know and I think most of our listeners understand that welive in a highly compartmentalized social structure. The so-called Red Scare, the

Cold War, even the fragments of the NAZI period were all created at the top

levels of these service for self governments that run the Earth. That basicallythis has been man racing man for the purpose of enriching those at the top ofthe power structure. Talk to me a little bit about what you see at the top of thepower structure, what their end game is and how they can conceivably think

they can win something like this, given an outside intelligence that's so

compellingly able to intervene but apparently not willful to do so.

JH: They have taken the idea of feudal primogeniture and obsessed it. And theywant to concrete their control and pass it to their offspring intact. And grow in

power at the expense of everyone else. In order to do this they have perverted

technology to further their control in the form of repression, suppression andeventually an absolute corporate feudal police state. You see that all over, you

see governments acceding to corporate control. You saw BP in the Gulf, after

they had committed the worst ecological disasters on record, telling thepresident of the United States what he would and would not do.

After they had drilled an experimental well, the deepest ever drilled without

affording either Mexico or the United States an environmental impact study...

something anyone else would have had to produce, one concession afteranother, the Coast Guard is turned over to their control, they are given thepolice rights to threaten people that want to find out what's going on and report,

as journalists. Then they are allowed to dispense a controlled substance (Corexit

9500) that has been banned in their own country, something they are paying

storage costs on and now they have a chance to get rid of.

Of course it's going to sink the oil down on the coral, destroy the coral. It will

take thousands of years to replace the coral. Coral plays a paramount role in the

ecology of any salt water environment. And doing this... one of the indications of

how bad bad can be... is when President Obama came out and said, soon the


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Gulf of Mexico will be even better than ever. That statement right there, should

go down as the footnote of President Obama and I hope to God people arepaying attention. We cannot endure another administration like this.

RM: Well, it's been a consistent pattern. Look at the promises made about NewOrleans after Katrina. Look at the program that was launched after the HaitiEarthquake. All the massive collection of funds by the two former presidents who

seem to be such good buddies, George H.W. Bush and William Jefferson Clinton.

Every time we have a disaster they paint it over with this promise that things

are going to be better and yet it never seems to get better for the people whowere devastated by the original disaster.

I mean, they brought New Orleans back but there are entire parts of New

Orleans that are still trashed as a result of that with no effort to rebuild NewOrleans. There are across the country scattered tens of thousands of expatriated

New Orleans residents that have just pulled up stakes and left for good. And if

the people from Haiti could possibly swim to a better place, they would do thatas well. What we're really seeing is planned devastations on a broad scale. And Isay all of that because I want to triangulate here a little bit. One of the datapoints in the Elenin argument, again I say data points because there may or

may not be factual evidence behind it, is the attempt to line up the trajectory of

Elenin with various things that have happened on the Earth since 2010 and I am

speaking specifically here about the Japan Earthquake of March of this year.

JH: Oh, yes, they would like to blame HAARP, and what HAARP was designed to

do, effect weather and Earthquakes, they would like to blame that on the sun;

they would like to blame that on Elenin, they would... you know, who knowswhat they have brewing that they would like to blame on Elenin. And that's why

I've already predicted that Elenin will not come between Earth and the sun

because that would give them too much; they would work out some kind ofastrophysics to use as an excuse for some horrible monstrous project that they

have in mind that they can blame on... well, you know the gravity wave of Earthis determined by the sun... well it's not... the sun is part of it but, you know,

there is a lot more to it than that... if we didn't have the sun we wouldn't be

here; so, you know... to make problems that don't exist out of features ofnature... let's call it nature, so that you can set up a cloak that you can hideyour monstrous designs behind is what these people have done. We call these

false flags but that's loose... look at the war on drugs. The war on drugs, just

like prohibition, gave a monopoly to the mob. The war on drugs maintains a

society in which some of the worst elements scavenge the society and look atthe victims from this war on drugs and look at what it has done to countriessuch as Mexico. It doesn't do anything and hasn't done anything but create

more money for the people involved in drugs.

RM: And we're in this period of time as well, where we're beginning, we should


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be able to understand how money is manipulated and how the economic

structure itself is like a monopoly board game controlled at the very top. Thereis no real money; there is no real wealth because we base wealth on an internal

system they control.

JH: Of course, we have thought, and been told all along that many of the peoplethat are in some of the think tanks, that are writing articles, certain periodicals

that affect and influence professional people, have convinced many of the

advisers of these think tanks that, well, we have to have oil since that's the only

way we can maintain the value of the dollar. Since oil transactions are under acartel who is based in the United States and that permits us to keep the dollar

propped up because it doesn't have any backing and because our payments ofbalance deficit with China is so overwhelmingly one-sided.

So, in order to keep the dollar from being adjusted to its true value, we have to

keep oil and we can't afford alternatives... you see the way in which an

argument is fabricated to maintain the status quo even though change is vital,change is vital. In order to maintain the classless, the illusion of a classlesssociety where we supposedly all benefit from the policies that are proscribed ona national/multinational level. This has been shot in the rear for the last twenty-

five years as we sit back and watch what we were told would happen when

NAFTA and GATT were passed.

RM: NAFTA and GATT being nothing but trade/protection acts for theinternationalists.

JH: Well, they weren't really protection; they were removal of a fair tradeformulation that had been applied, even in Kenseyian economics, to maintain

the stability of nations that belonged to any kind of money block, trade block, or

military alignment to maintain the value of their money to keep their social andeconomic status stable. Think of all the terms and phrases that applied twenty-

five years ago that don't today. Like tariffs, when is the last time you heard theword, tariff? When's the last time you've actually heard the phrase, balance of

payment deficit? You haven't, because these are principles that when you view

them en tota, you understand are necessary and vital.

If you don't want what's happening in the United States and England, all the

former industrial nations in the world today then these are principles by which

you prevent it. And so it's not protection, it's the removal of protection and

sound economic practice. What they've done, they've take the discipline ofeconomics, the field of economics, and destroyed it and replaced it with a bunchof policies that are held together purely on the basis of interests of cartels and

international corporations which benefit from moving one nation against another

and forcing them into alliances for the benefit of international banking.


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RM: It strikes me as you're talking, James, two things, and I'll try and bring this

out, first off, it all seems to connect somewhere with the idea of a zero-sumgame based on limited energy and materials. That really does not appear to be

the model when we go out beyond our own mindset now. It seems like,

whatever you might call them, the New World Order, the powers that be, thosewho sit at the top of the pyramid right now, are attempting to do is suppresswhat would be the next economy which would be based on what we call free or

zero point energy. And yet that, in fact, is the model I see demonstrated by the

EMVs, by the extraterrestrial intelligence out there and even by this very

phenomenon we see by the example of Elenin, the ability to transport craftacross a wide expanse of the solar system in a pretty efficient manner. Is that

what we're looking at, we're looking at the suppression of what would be thereal next level of humanity based on zero point free energy?

JH: If people could observe and apply their deductive abilities, which they all

have, to grasp the full ramifications of the EMVs in the sun and to look for

answers astrophysicists won't discuss today like dealing with problems(astrophysicists won't discuss today) like how can this star continue its fusionprocess for billions of years? Why doesn't it run out of energy? Well, it doesn'trun out of energy because there is an exchange that replaces as much it takes,

of a star with an EMV.

RM: Kind of goes into the whole paradigm of our sciences. It's one of the thingsmost bewildering to me not being a scientific person is how stratified is ourunderstanding of the sciences, even astrophysics. We seem again to hold these

seemingly conflicted models... the idea of comets being ice balls in space. The

very definition of this boggles the mind when you consider these things move inclose proximity to stars similar to our own sun and, as you pointed out to me in

a conversation yesterday, what happens when ice goes near a sun or star? So,

we have problems with our models and our models are not well defined. Weseem to be stuck with the law of the conservation of energy, of the second law

of thermodynamics. And it seems like that is where they want to keep us now, ina sense, even in an intelligent society, as a science based technological society

we're stuck in models that don't work in the reality of what we're seeing played

out in the solar system right now.

JH: I can tell you, and nobody can contradict me on this, I can tell you about

hoaxes the science establishment, and not just in the United States, have

practiced on the public for 100 years, gotten away with and never come clean

about. When you have examples of this, and you have the public just lied to, likeCarl Sagan was so fond of doing. Carl Sagan was an insider; Carl Sagan knewETs were here, he knew, for instance, there had been communication and

contact, he knew a number of things that he denied and he kept talking about

how long it would be before we would make contact and the unlikelihood we

would make intelligent contact... all along, when he knew that was a lie. So, I


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look at Sagan and I look at some of the people today who are not, like Teller,

they are not there because they are the best and the brightest; they are therebecause they will say what they are told to say.

RM: Okay, you kind of walked me into this and I'm not against naming names, Idon't think we need to smear anyone, but we have one prominent spokesmanout there who has postulated that Elenin is kind of what you say it is, gone a

step further saying that Elenin may in fact be some sort of ark of human

intelligence from the future sending a message to us living in this present time.

You want to go at this however you want to...

JH: One of the things we have a hard time understanding is that ourtransmissions from Earth to any much more advanced civilization would be

analyzed over time, would be read and that their presence here, which isobservable daily, that they would know us as well as we know ourselves, maybe

even better. So anything like Elenin, anything like Schuhmacher/Levi, which

wasn't a direct communication, they are terra farming Jupiter as we speak. Whatall of this, is taken into consideration, and what is supplied in demonstrablefashion like with Elenin, is what they think we need most. They are interested inour surviving. They are interested in this lineage surviving. They are doing what

they can do; they are showing Elenin as a demonstration, a friendly ET presence

and the magnitude of what they are capable of doing. And it will remain friendly,

there is nothing to fear from it. But it is a demonstration. Hopefully it will havethe meaning it is intended to have, to wake up the people of Earth that all thesestar war games, all of the weaponization of space, all of it is an abuse, it is

unrealistic. And it has a usefulness, kind of like the war on drugs, terrorism... it's

actually war against the people. And these are ruses and so is thisweaponization of space.

So people are being communicated with in a way I hope they understand theramifications that are implied in the presence of Elenin and how it behaves. But

it's not much more than that. It will be large; it will look like a metal rock, verylarge metal rock. It will demonstrate that it's under intelligent guidance by the

way it behaves. And already has, it has attempted to communicate but how it

will be perceived will be based on the orchestration of information and how thatinformation is changed and altered and so forth, just like with everything elseso... when people make leaps about a phenomenon like this they are usually

playing to an agenda and I'm afraid our individual here is playing to confusion.

RM: Let's talk a little about some of the preconceived notions as well. Eleninseems to play in rather elegantly with the whole idea of Nibiru/Planet X whichtriangulates as well with a lot of the interpreted prophecy based on scripture,

based on understandings of an apocalyptic end times scenario that has not

been... again, it seems to me like most of this has been brewed up and put out

into the public domain as sort of a meme for a mind control that has to do with


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an apocalyptic end times.

JH: Well, anything that throws people off, off track. Anything that makes people

feel like: well, there's not much use about us doing anything about this corrupt

government, these corrupt wars when we don't know what's coming next, Imean, Second Coming, Nibiru, whatever... all of this is to deflate anything that'son track to actually bring meaningful social and economic change to the people

of the planet. That's what we need and if we have this we don't need to worry

about the rest of this. The presence of the EMVs and what they do should tell

you, if we were on track morally we would be protected.

RM: Would it be within the realm of speculation here to say that an advancedintelligent intergalactic society does not require an economic system as we

define it... the reason I'm bringing us back to this for a minute is, I think this isan area where our thinking has been stunted as well. Our economic systems are

based on models, again, on limits... of limits of material, limits of human

capacity, limits of energy.

And yet again, the EMVs demonstrate an intelligent management of resourceswithin the solar system that I think have a strong parallel as well to our own

system, we call it an economic system. Actually what it is is a management of

energy.

JH: We are fed lies, one lie after another. Resources only become precious bythe way they are utilized.

We have people today that are trying to contaminate water supplies so they canmake the water they control more valuable. We have people that are thinking

about sculpting the North American continent in such a way that the land they

own will be more valuable. All of this has been represented in fiction, I won't sayscience fiction since most science fiction writers play into the hostile alien thesis.

Our enemies, the bad people we have to fear are ourselves, among ourselves.They are the pathological narcissists that have been brought up to think they are

better than everyone else and that we are useless eaters because we don't

contribute to their fortunes.

Now when we understand that then we start looking around and we see there

are all sorts of answers to famine, to disease that are avoided, that are not

discussed, that are suppressed. I can tell you right now there are ways to feed

the world, economically and accommodatingly in ways that have not beendiscussed or approached that would reduce the cost of good nutritious food andprovide healthy water at a fraction of what people are being charged today. All

the technology that is involved in food production today is going the other way.

To make healthy food more difficult to find; to create diseases within our food

chain and to eliminate the chances more and more everyday to find a good


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supply of potable water.

RM: I want to draw you back a few minutes now to the solar system and kind of

what is the central thesis of your work with the EMVs. Elenin demonstrates that

what we're seeing through telescopes from Earth, at least the telescopes wehave access to, the ones they don't control, and I'll just point out too, that thedata that produced the original Elenin phenomenon...

JH: ... It didn't have a tail, did it?

RM: Well, we don't know that because it was vetted. This information was fed to

Harvard University, to Jet Propulsion Laboratories, to the group you mentionedbefore, The Office of Astronomical Telegrams. It seems we don't have a way of

understanding what is natural to the solar system, to the galaxy, and furtherout, to the universes. It seems we are under the perception that we have this

strange object in our sky right now that's been there for millenia, called the

Moon. And we don't understand what the Moon is. I want you to go into theMoon a little bit because I think maybe your explanation, your understanding ofthis will help us gain a little more understanding about Elenin itself.

JH: There are vast engines inside the Moon that they know about, they know

about them because when they operate, when they make adjustments, there

are changes in gravity fields on the Moon that are very remarkable and theycoincide with changes in gravity fields on the Earth. So they know there is aninterrelationship and they have known for a long time. The fact that they know a

great deal more about the Moon than they let on and they have found things out

about the mineralogy and petrology of the Moon that they couldn't have foundout just with rovers, with probes or whatever. That they actually have bases

there and they have people doing this work there...

I've been in possession of a book that was published on the petrology of the

Moon and the information there could not have been compiled unless theyactually have teams there doing this work. So, what you have to understand

that when they lie to you, misrepresent, when they shade the truth to the extent

that they do... then you really don't need to put the faith too many people put inthem and you need to understand what we have here are not people beingobjective, using the scientific method, but we have science gone bad; that's

what we have.

And you can't blame individuals, because you have a lot of people that went toschool, maybe eight years of higher education in order to get their Phds andthey became specialists and applied their science in ways that they achieved

special abilities. There's nothing wrong with most of these people but they work

within a system where the projects they work on are compartmentalized and so,

the overview is owned by very few people, probably not scientists, but social


15/19

engineers. And so what we end up with is science strained through a bottle-neck

of agenda.

We can't trust these people to tell us the truth, we know that, so why would we

trust the conclusions that they form when they go to present papers, when theygo to write articles, when journalists go out to interview them? Because theirlivelihood depends upon hiding more than they would divulge. And that's the

system that they work for. It's just like the public education system. If you are

creative, if you would make a great teacher, inspiring children to love to learn,

you are out of work! So, that's happened in science, it's happened inengineering, it's happened in fields across the board.

And so what we're left with is people that have these abilities, who would be so

much more... especially if they could share information openly and not becompartmentalized and confined by security classifications and so forth... even

in private corporations. Cause we have corporate sabotage and crap like that,

which the government feeds upon. The will create it if it's not there, just likedrug traffic... they'll it create because it's useful, it's a tool. As a consequencewhat we have is, not advances, we don't have people that are able to make thenext big step up to develop what could really benefit, what could bring about the

most amazing uses for acquiring energy sources, new energy sources, for

producing things that are of benefit medically, socially, for structures that have

no vulnerability to Earthquakes, for recovering land from holocaust and things...the answers are there, it's just that these disasters are useful to agendas.

RM: To redirect a little bit, James, what actually is the Moon, what is the origin

of the Moon, how does it relate to us as humanity?

JH: The Moon was engineered 325,000 years ago to carry people from a system

in rapid decline to a new home. This was the remnants of a peoples that werelucky enough to be on their way to a colony when their system went into rapid

decline and there was no hope for it. And so the survivors came to this system.At that time Mars was the best host. They made contact with a highly advanced

people that lived underground there and they were able to set up, to bring Mars

into a more vital life than it had. And for 50,000 years Mars was an adequatehome for these people until they tried to do too much; they tried to developgeothermal energy and the mantle of Mars was too thin to support that. And so

they had to leave Mars, they decided to come to Earth. These same people

helped them establish themselves here and now we're facing the same thing

here only we don't have this same society to save our butt.

RM: So what were the Apollo Space Programs, did we actually send teams to

the Moon or was that a cover for a larger operation that had already occurred a

long time ago?


16/19

JH: I'll tell you the truth about that. They had already established bases on the

Moon but they could not, they did not... they could but they did not want todivulge the second technology that they had for doing that so they had to

pretend that the Roman candle rocket would get the job done and they knew

they didn't need to so it was staged. Because they really didn't see any reasonfor actually sending those guys up on a rocket because the risks that were run.And they've had other means now for sometime. They have hidden a second

technology and they've had a second technology around since the Civil War. And

the reason there is a suppression of technology, that there is a limitation or

control of it and that there is a presence of a second or hidden technology isbecause they don't want the benefits of these discoveries to threaten cartels.

RM: Knowledge has a way of seeping out into the margins. I think you know

that as well as I do, that...

JH: Yes, and they are, they are.

RM: Truth is self-assertive and at the same time we begin to get a sense thiswhole thing was staged, the space program was a well-funded front foralternatives... not even that, but primary science for science and physics on

Earth, which has been suppressed and hidden as well. You talked about the

Moon and the effect on gravity. We're under the illusion... and gravity in my

mind has never been well defined either what the source of gravity is or how itoperates in the solar system and on Earth. Is it correct to say that gravity on theEarth itself is not a constant state but that we have fluctuations in gravity?

JH: Yes, now gravity is not just mass and density. Gravity in astrophysics is alsothe relationship you are in with your star, where you are in relation to your star,

the other planets, your Moon, all of these things make up a third element which

you might call gravity wave. And I can go into explaining why you might call it awave but that's already been done, there are people now that are beginning to

understand the element of gravity wave and that gravity wave is a signature.And that it is a useful signature for navigating to a system, to a precise location

like a planet. Because if you know that signature, you can feed it into your

computer and it takes you there. In a more elevated sense it can actuallyperform as drive.

I think this is very well known and I think though that putting it together here

again you have this segmentation, this compartmentalized group of scientists

that are not benefiting from being able to interrelate. And being obstructed frombeing able to put this and expose vital data to the finest minds. And to get aconsensus that you can go to places. So it's not possible... if we get into a

position, a situation threatening to our survival finding the best minds and

exposing them to the data they need... to remedy... I don't know that would be

possible... how would I know? But I know it would be far more possible if we


17/19

didn't have this over-compartmentalization, if we didn't have more and more

corporate in-fighting, if what we were paying the government to do with ourtaxes, they were doing.

RM: The reason I brought that up is because a lot of the genesis I have done forthe work on this show and what really kind of triggered me into the field ofinquiry goes back to a number of things I've experienced and things I intuitively

understood when I was young. In 1976 Robert Temple wrote a book called The

Sirius Mystery and he talked about the Dogons, an ancient tribe, who

understood at that time, without any astronomical tools, the existence of abinary star system called the Sirius Mystery. It seems that, regardless how

compartmentalized, how dumbed down we are, in our educational system, thereis knowledge within the solar system and the universe that is obtainable by

means that are not necessarily empirical.

Temple used the Sirius Mystery and the study of the Dogons to predict the

existence of other bodies which were later discovered after the book waspublished. He likewise was suppressed as well... very similar, I think, to thework of Dr. Bergrun who we discussed in the first show. Is there a way that wecan now begin to move our consciousness towards understanding the things that

are being suppressed from us by the system and how do we break out of this

shell?

JH: Well, in the past there were remarkable men that were called adepts andthey sat at the foot of the throne of rulers and gave them advice. The model for

that is, of course, minimalized a great deal but there is an old saying, you had

the ear of the monarch. These adepts were often men that had been taught incertain schools. The people today that are trying to obtain spiritual attainment

are not privileged in these arts and in this knowledge. Genghis Khan had an

adept, Alexander the Great, Alexander of Macedonia and his father, Philip ofMacedonia, had adepts. Three of the Pharaohs had adepts. There have been

adepts on the Earth for 25,000 years in this lineage. And these men have left,more or less out of disgust.

A lot of people today seek as an example of spiritual reality that exceeds thetemporal... and our model of time is so erred... I mean, I like the AmericanIndian very much for his disregard of time because he is onto something there.

We labor ourselves, we confine ourselves to models for the edification or benefit

of the wealthy and powerful and when you really get down to it, you know, my

people, remember my people suffer for lack of wisdom, or knowledge - mypeople suffer from lack of justice.

RM: As we kind of close this conversation down, James, we've kind of gone

through Elenin in a pretty wide path I think and I liked the conversation. You've

put some predictions on the table and I think it's going to be interesting to


18/19

watch. I think it's useful to see what they are going to do if Elenin does not

enter a path between Sun and the Earth. I want to ask you this: what do youbelieve the flight path off Elenin will be as it enters the perihelion, nearest point

of the Earth, um, some people believe that it's going to do something

spectacular.

JH: Well, it will, it'll change course radically, almost at right angle and go back

out of the system. It will demonstrate that it is under intelligent guidance, that

it's friendly and that it has some magnitude.

RM: So taking that as kind of a prediction on the table will what is the take away

message we want to leave with the audience for this show today, because Ithink one of the things that we need to debunk is all the fear hat is around it, I

mean if you do a Google search on Elenin right now and if you are willing tospend the time to sit through hundreds if not thousands of webpages, it's all

over the map and most of it is hysterical, most of it has no boundaries within

accepted science even what we have talked about, even within the structures ofour convoluted system of astrophysics, what is it that we want to leave theaudience with today as both a warning and a comfort.

JH: Elenin is demonstrating to you that there is more to astrophysics, that there

is more to the universe, there is more to this part of the galaxy than you are

being told that your cosmic brotherhood, if you want to think of them as that,and they are well-meaning, cares about you, knows that you are being leaddown a wrong direction and is letting you know there are better alternatives,

that there is no hostile alien presence and there won't be any tolerated. And that

they are a well-meaning and are giving you time to straighten up your mess inthe hopes that you will, at you will be advised, they know that you are being

played and know that the agenda is being run are against our interests. They

want you to know that there are alternatives and that you are not being toldabout and their very presence indicates that, it shows you what can be done if

you get over the hump. Get over the hump and it's a moral thing, it isn'ttechnology, technology is not integral to whether or not you can become a part

of an extended community, its overcoming technology, overcoming the

perverted use that's being applied to technology on Earth.

RM: You talked in our first interview about civilizations that advanced beyond

the physical technology that we consider to be so epic right now. You talked

about spiritual technology and that that ultimately has to be our goal because

the technology that we presently have is controlled and it is intended to enslaveus. What is your vision of technology and what is your vision for humankind ifwe can pass this current threshold.

JH: Well know, spiritual technology is something else, it's very rare and the

people that were on Mars at that time that humankind came to this system, did


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reach spiritual technology. The same happened to the people that created the

EBEs but that's very rare. What we would hope for, is that people of of the Earthrealize that there are better ways in doing things, that technology is not an end

in itself without a moral of determinant, without a moral core involved, that

there are certain things that are just not done and these are the things that arealmost being exclusively done today.

If we change and we focus and concentrate on moral determinants and take this

power out of the hands of mad men then we are candidates for consideration of

belonging to something greater. When we remove abberrance, individual andcollective abberrance from more of society, from our planetary society, we are

assured of becoming members of an extended community where there is nodisease, there is no want, there will be no disproportionate distribution of

wealth, all of this things have no meaning and we will be able to explore newrealms efficiently, extensively and we will have a way of life that we can't even

apprehend now.

RM: I think that's actually a great place to park it for this show, James I want tothank you for coming and for sharing your insights, your views and your uniqueperspective on a subject that right now needs a little bit of calm consideration

and deliberation. Anything else you want to say before we close out here?

JH: Just don't fear from what comes from the outside, there is nothingunfriendly, deal with what's here and now, it needs to change.

RM: that's going to do it for this time, this is OffPlanet Radio, I am Randy

Maugans, the truth is out there, it's inside you, keep looking for it, we'll be backwith another show very soon.

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