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Spaced Out Radio - Sept. 5_16 - The Bye Bye Man with Robert Schneck_5ahl59oxOVE - transcript (automated).txt[19/06/2019 13:25:38]

100:00:01,500 --> 00:00:07,679[Music]

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900:00:28,809 --> 00:00:35,269but your experience begin right now

1000:00:32,890 --> 00:00:37,370from high atop the mountains of British

1100:00:35,270 --> 00:00:37,850Columbia to you listening around the

1200:00:37,369 --> 00:00:41,119world

1300:00:37,850 --> 00:00:43,448this is spaced-out radio you can follow

1400:00:41,119 --> 00:00:47,509us on our web site spaced-out radio.com

1500:00:43,448 --> 00:00:50,329on twitter at spaced-out radio give our

1600:00:47,509 --> 00:00:52,849Facebook page alike space out radio show

1700:00:50,329 --> 00:00:55,628you can follow us on instagram dave

1800:00:52,850 --> 00:00:59,739scott sor or on our youtube channel

1900:00:55,628 --> 00:00:59,738spaced out radio show

2000:01:08,810 --> 00:01:15,290ready

2100:01:10,939 --> 00:01:15,289we break on commanders man

2200:01:15,569 --> 00:01:21,729buckle up space travelers it's time to

2300:01:18,579 --> 00:01:24,509go for a ride as we are live on space

2400:01:21,730 --> 00:01:24,510doubt radio

2500:02:02,359 --> 00:02:05,459[Applause]

2600:02:15,580 --> 00:02:20,170good evening and welcome to spaced out

2700:02:18,009 --> 00:02:21,849radio tonight I am your host Dave Scott


2800:02:20,169 --> 00:02:23,799good to have you with us on this Monday

2900:02:21,849 --> 00:02:25,840night early Tuesday morning if you are

3000:02:23,800 --> 00:02:29,410listening on spaced-out radio calm on

3100:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,990Spreaker as well as on revolution radio

3200:02:29,409 --> 00:02:33,250we come to you from tonight's show

3300:02:30,990 --> 00:02:35,020broadcasting out of uncle Jimbo's cabin

3400:02:33,250 --> 00:02:36,849in the great white north live on this

3500:02:35,020 --> 00:02:38,800Monday night early Tuesday morning if

3600:02:36,849 --> 00:02:40,599you're on the East Coast here at spaced

3700:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,760out radio we do this thing three hours a

3800:02:40,599 --> 00:02:43,989night seven days a week that's because

3900:02:42,759 --> 00:02:46,179we want to be your official

4000:02:43,990 --> 00:02:48,159one-stop-shop when it comes to the

4100:02:46,180 --> 00:02:51,099


supernatural paranormal conspiratorial

4200:02:48,159 --> 00:02:52,659spiritual and so much more if you like

4300:02:51,099 --> 00:02:54,939our music you can head to spaced out

4400:02:52,659 --> 00:02:57,219radios website where you can hear the

4500:02:54,939 --> 00:02:59,979guitar god himself Ron bumblefoot Thal

4600:02:57,219 --> 00:03:01,330formerly of Guns and Roses check out a

4700:02:59,979 --> 00:03:03,369couple of his music videos by clicking

4800:03:01,330 --> 00:03:05,860on the bumblefoot banner you can also

4900:03:03,370 --> 00:03:07,930follow us on twitter at spaced out radio

5000:03:05,860 --> 00:03:10,300give our Facebook page alike spaced out

5100:03:07,930 --> 00:03:13,150radio show on Instagram I can be

5200:03:10,300 --> 00:03:14,950followed at Dave Scott SOR subscribe to

5300:03:13,150 --> 00:03:17,530our YouTube channel spaced out radio

5400:03:14,949 --> 00:03:20,199show and our website is spaced out radio

55


00:03:17,530 --> 00:03:21,550calm and this time we say hi how are you

5600:03:20,199 --> 00:03:23,530what's going on to everyone in the

5700:03:21,550 --> 00:03:25,600revolution radio chat room on the high

5800:03:23,530 --> 00:03:27,580plains talk radio network in the

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6000:03:27,580 --> 00:03:31,090along with our fans at Uwe for you

6100:03:29,259 --> 00:03:33,489chronicles chronicles of the unknown

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6400:03:35,949 --> 00:03:40,238if you haven't signed up for the SL our

6500:03:37,900 --> 00:03:42,550space travelers club yet well it's time

6600:03:40,239 --> 00:03:44,170it's only 5 bucks a month and with that

6700:03:42,550 --> 00:03:46,180your name gets entered in a monthly

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6900:03:46,180 --> 00:03:50,530group interviews access to a special

7000:03:48,489 --> 00:03:52,090section on our website and so much more

7100:03:50,530 --> 00:03:54,459hey we're gonna give you a hell of a lot

7200:03:52,090 --> 00:03:56,560more than just access to our archives

7300:03:54,459 --> 00:03:58,209while it's spaced out radio calm you can

7400:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,550read our latest blogs and you can check

7500:03:58,209 --> 00:04:02,680out Erik Markham's SOR space wire for

7600:04:00,550 --> 00:04:03,880your latest in weird news tonight's show

7700:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,739is brought to you by rivulet

7800:04:03,879 --> 00:04:08,379Reiki and readings providing healings in

7900:04:05,739 --> 00:04:11,259person or to distance purple plates calm

8000:04:08,379 --> 00:04:12,969helping heal your body mind and soul the

8100:04:11,259 --> 00:04:15,579new Agora newspaper is the official

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paper of this show the iTunes app spirit

8300:04:15,580 --> 00:04:20,410story box it's the official ghost unto

8400:04:17,560 --> 00:04:22,899gap of SOR and remember if you are a

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9000:04:29,379 --> 00:04:34,180and donate today we do have some

9100:04:31,990 --> 00:04:38,530exciting news for all of our listeners

9200:04:34,180 --> 00:04:42,430if you own a product of Apple you can

9300:04:38,529 --> 00:04:46,089now as of tonight find spaced-out radio

9400:04:42,430 --> 00:04:48,400on iTunes you can download your favorite

9500:04:46,089 --> 00:04:50,349podcast the ones you want to listen to

96


00:04:48,399 --> 00:04:53,859and you can play them back again and

9700:04:50,350 --> 00:04:55,570again and again so we welcome iTunes

9800:04:53,860 --> 00:04:57,939into the space-out radio family it's

9900:04:55,569 --> 00:05:01,180good to be with them and we will be

10000:04:57,939 --> 00:05:05,529doing a lot more on iTunes as time moves

10100:05:01,180 --> 00:05:07,810forward legend and folklore has always

10200:05:05,529 --> 00:05:10,479hid a revealing secret to the origins of

10300:05:07,810 --> 00:05:12,160the story looking back at how long the

10400:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,020legend of Bigfoot has been around for

10500:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,150instance all the First Nations clans

10600:05:14,019 --> 00:05:18,729know about it to the extreme on this end

10700:05:16,149 --> 00:05:22,000it's literally been centuries in recent

10800:05:18,730 --> 00:05:25,060years like a few decades there's been

10900:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,740Mothman Slenderman and other strange

110


00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:29,170creatures that have haunted people are

11100:05:26,740 --> 00:05:31,420these true stories are they just old

11200:05:29,170 --> 00:05:34,180wives tales to get children into bed on

11300:05:31,420 --> 00:05:35,980time what's the deal with them but on a

11400:05:34,180 --> 00:05:38,980serious note what if some of them are

11500:05:35,980 --> 00:05:41,140true what if conjuring up the dark

11600:05:38,980 --> 00:05:43,600spirits while playing with a Ouija board

11700:05:41,139 --> 00:05:45,490actually happened what kind of trouble

11800:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,470could playing with the darker side of

11900:05:45,490 --> 00:05:50,470the spiritual world really get us into

12000:05:47,470 --> 00:05:53,320well this is where the full klore of the

12100:05:50,470 --> 00:05:56,200bye-bye man comes into play frankly up

12200:05:53,319 --> 00:05:58,420until researching this topic I'd never

12300:05:56,199 --> 00:06:00,099even heard of this nightmarish tale but

124


00:05:58,420 --> 00:06:01,930there are plenty of stories like this

12500:06:00,100 --> 00:06:04,720that may not have the gusto that say

12600:06:01,930 --> 00:06:07,180demons or poltergeists - this is why we

12700:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,590bring an author Robert Schneck he has

12800:06:07,180 --> 00:06:11,050written about the bye-bye man is

12900:06:08,589 --> 00:06:12,969actually turning into a movie Robert

13000:06:11,050 --> 00:06:16,750welcome to spaced out radio how are you

13100:06:12,970 --> 00:06:19,090good day thank you for having me on it's

13200:06:16,750 --> 00:06:21,850a pleasure to have you on this show as

13300:06:19,089 --> 00:06:23,649well and I apologize for going late with

13400:06:21,850 --> 00:06:25,540you normally we try and get started at

13500:06:23,649 --> 00:06:28,149the top of the hour right off the bat

13600:06:25,540 --> 00:06:29,620but unfortunately we are having just a

13700:06:28,149 --> 00:06:31,899few technical difficulties with a

138


00:06:29,620 --> 00:06:35,560computer here and the system for some

13900:06:31,899 --> 00:06:37,149reason my headphone jack was not working

14000:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,579and it was directing all my sound

14100:06:37,149 --> 00:06:41,829through my microphone jack which was

14200:06:39,579 --> 00:06:43,209really weird and I think we've solved it

14300:06:41,829 --> 00:06:45,639for tonight but I'm excited

14400:06:43,209 --> 00:06:47,318to do this topic with you I really am oh

14500:06:45,639 --> 00:06:47,620well I'm looking I'm looking forward to

14600:06:47,319 --> 00:06:50,289it

14700:06:47,620 --> 00:06:52,120me too me too I'm gonna get you to speak

14800:06:50,288 --> 00:06:55,269up just a little bit more if you don't

14900:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,848mind all right one second has that much

15000:06:55,269 --> 00:07:00,969better thank you so much okay I wasn't

15100:06:57,848 --> 00:07:03,310


close enough to the microphone it does

15200:07:00,970 --> 00:07:05,560get that way it definitely gets that way

15300:07:03,310 --> 00:07:09,189for sure but I think I've got my Jackson

15400:07:05,560 --> 00:07:12,220order so I'm ready excellent and I

15500:07:09,189 --> 00:07:14,199appreciate that so Robert getting to

15600:07:12,220 --> 00:07:16,000your story because everyone has a story

15700:07:14,199 --> 00:07:16,900that leads up into these types of

15800:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,149categories

15900:07:16,899 --> 00:07:21,399did you ever ever have anything weird or

16000:07:19,149 --> 00:07:23,049strange happen to you that kind of led

16100:07:21,399 --> 00:07:27,939you down this path or was it just a mild

16200:07:23,050 --> 00:07:30,220curiosity to write about no neither one

16300:07:27,939 --> 00:07:32,978really it seems to be something in my

16400:07:30,220 --> 00:07:34,930temperament I I've always been that way

165


00:07:32,978 --> 00:07:37,389I've always been this way ever since I

16600:07:34,930 --> 00:07:42,129was a small child I was always attracted

16700:07:37,389 --> 00:07:44,408to whatever was strange or anomalous if

16800:07:42,129 --> 00:07:47,259there was a chance to watch any movie I

16900:07:44,408 --> 00:07:49,300would watch the horror movie if there

17000:07:47,259 --> 00:07:51,819was a chance to read a book I would read

17100:07:49,300 --> 00:07:54,728the ghost stories it just seemed to be

17200:07:51,819 --> 00:07:58,779something that I was born with the way

17300:07:54,728 --> 00:08:01,598some people are born with six fingers I

17400:07:58,779 --> 00:08:07,138was born with this predisposition to

17500:08:01,598 --> 00:08:11,860whatever is unusual for me it really

17600:08:07,139 --> 00:08:14,860became IIIi put a name to it when I was

17700:08:11,860 --> 00:08:16,658very young and I found a copy of

17800:08:14,860 --> 00:08:20,860stranger than science on my mother's

17900:08:16,658 --> 00:08:22,449


night table and I'm sure most of the

18000:08:20,860 --> 00:08:24,908people listening are familiar with the

18100:08:22,449 --> 00:08:29,530book by Frank Edwards it was a

18200:08:24,908 --> 00:08:32,528collection of very short strange but

18300:08:29,529 --> 00:08:35,250true tales that he collected on a wide

18400:08:32,528 --> 00:08:39,038variety of subjects everything from

18500:08:35,250 --> 00:08:43,990hairy monsters to famous last words that

18600:08:39,038 --> 00:08:47,470he put together into these little

18700:08:43,990 --> 00:08:50,950paperback books where he would boil the

18800:08:47,470 --> 00:08:53,560story down to say two pages with a

18900:08:50,950 --> 00:08:55,600catchy title and he would tell the story

19000:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,419briefly and you could read through these

19100:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,740books very

19200:08:56,419 --> 00:09:01,819quickly and they were they were enormous

19300:08:57,740 --> 00:09:03,769ly popular and once I read it and I


19400:09:01,820 --> 00:09:07,040realized there were all these wonderful

19500:09:03,769 --> 00:09:09,589things in the world monsters and ghosts

19600:09:07,039 --> 00:09:11,389and vampires and werewolves that these

19700:09:09,589 --> 00:09:14,120things were not just something you came

19800:09:11,389 --> 00:09:16,339across in movies well that did it for me

19900:09:14,120 --> 00:09:19,159my life was more or less mapped out

20000:09:16,339 --> 00:09:21,139right there and then I began going to

20100:09:19,159 --> 00:09:24,049the library one of the first books on

20200:09:21,139 --> 00:09:26,329the subject I read was the Mothman

20300:09:24,049 --> 00:09:30,139Prophecies which hadn't been out very

20400:09:26,328 --> 00:09:32,539long at the time it was one of maybe two

20500:09:30,139 --> 00:09:36,769paranormal books that my library carried

20600:09:32,539 --> 00:09:39,349and I read that many many times from

207


00:09:36,769 --> 00:09:42,459there I went on to writers like Ivan

20800:09:39,350 --> 00:09:45,860Sanderson and bernard heuvelmans and

20900:09:42,458 --> 00:09:49,429that more or less did it for me I have

21000:09:45,860 --> 00:09:51,949been very involved in these sorts of

21100:09:49,429 --> 00:09:54,649things ever since and to answer your

21200:09:51,948 --> 00:09:57,740question no I never had anything

21300:09:54,649 --> 00:10:00,139paranormal ever happened to me I never

21400:09:57,740 --> 00:10:02,539saw a ghost when I was a child never

21500:10:00,139 --> 00:10:04,459heard a voice calling me none of those

21600:10:02,539 --> 00:10:08,569things I never even had an imaginary

21700:10:04,458 --> 00:10:10,939friend it was just that was never really

21800:10:08,570 --> 00:10:13,250part of my makeup oh I've had a few

21900:10:10,940 --> 00:10:16,160little things happen that might have

22000:10:13,250 --> 00:10:18,289been considered psychic Oh somebody

22100:10:16,159 --> 00:10:20,120would ask me if I could guess something

22200:10:18,289 --> 00:10:22,399and it was usually something incredibly

22300:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,278obscure and I guess I guessed it but I'm

22400:10:22,399 --> 00:10:28,278not going to make very much out of that

22500:10:24,278 --> 00:10:31,189so again I would call it more a natural

22600:10:28,278 --> 00:10:37,100inclination than a result of either

22700:10:31,190 --> 00:10:39,170experience or mild curiosity and it's

22800:10:37,100 --> 00:10:41,060interesting that you really haven't had

22900:10:39,169 --> 00:10:43,610an experience but dis this childhood

23000:10:41,059 --> 00:10:45,409fascination how good is that for you as

23100:10:43,610 --> 00:10:48,019a career robber to be able to write

23200:10:45,409 --> 00:10:50,509about this type of information and these

23300:10:48,019 --> 00:10:53,448stories because this is something that


23400:10:50,509 --> 00:10:56,028intrigued you right through your

23500:10:53,448 --> 00:10:58,448childhood it intrigued you obviously

23600:10:56,028 --> 00:11:01,490into adulthood is it great to be able to

23700:10:58,448 --> 00:11:04,849take your own imagination and take these

23800:11:01,490 --> 00:11:06,500stories and meld something together well

23900:11:04,850 --> 00:11:08,480you know it's funny it's it really

24000:11:06,500 --> 00:11:09,179doesn't involve a lot of imagination on

24100:11:08,480 --> 00:11:14,759my part

24200:11:09,179 --> 00:11:16,679I think if I had to you know I I would

24300:11:14,759 --> 00:11:19,230compare it to something I did when I was

24400:11:16,679 --> 00:11:22,199little my parents had a big set of

24500:11:19,230 --> 00:11:24,389encyclopedias that I was always leafing

24600:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,290through because they were there so I was


24700:11:24,389 --> 00:11:26,879always leafing through these

24800:11:25,289 --> 00:11:28,860encyclopedias they were filled with

24900:11:26,879 --> 00:11:30,120pictures and every time I found

25000:11:28,860 --> 00:11:32,340something that I thought was interesting

25100:11:30,120 --> 00:11:35,310I would run to my mother or father and

25200:11:32,340 --> 00:11:37,590show it to them and I think I've more or

25300:11:35,309 --> 00:11:40,829less continued doing that as an adult

25400:11:37,590 --> 00:11:42,690when I'm reading and/or I'm listening to

25500:11:40,830 --> 00:11:45,210the news or listening to the radio or

25600:11:42,690 --> 00:11:47,790one of the many podcasts I listen to and

25700:11:45,210 --> 00:11:50,009I hear something interesting I want to

25800:11:47,789 --> 00:11:54,419tell other people about it but as an

25900:11:50,009 --> 00:11:56,939adult it's you can actually write it

26000:11:54,419 --> 00:11:59,429down and sell it which is a pretty good


26100:11:56,940 --> 00:12:02,940deal because again this is what

26200:11:59,429 --> 00:12:07,529fascinates me so I would be doing this

26300:12:02,940 --> 00:12:10,820anyway it I'm always reading about these

26400:12:07,529 --> 00:12:14,759things as well as reading more

26500:12:10,820 --> 00:12:18,780mainstream history and sociology things

26600:12:14,759 --> 00:12:25,350like that but I will always go for

26700:12:18,779 --> 00:12:30,629whatever is on the border of anomalous

26800:12:25,350 --> 00:12:33,810or deviant or other things that other

26900:12:30,629 --> 00:12:36,679people tend to dismiss or simply

27000:12:33,809 --> 00:12:42,539overlook that that just is where my eye

27100:12:36,679 --> 00:12:44,250lands so I then pursue it is it living a

27200:12:42,539 --> 00:12:46,409childhood dream though being able to do

27300:12:44,250 --> 00:12:49,590this and write about these topics well

27400:12:46,409 --> 00:12:51,629yes it actually is because when I was


27500:12:49,590 --> 00:12:53,850little all I wanted to do was meet Ivan

27600:12:51,629 --> 00:12:55,799Sanderson and meet John keel and meet

27700:12:53,850 --> 00:12:57,830these people of course a lot of them

27800:12:55,799 --> 00:13:01,199died before I had the chance to do that

27900:12:57,830 --> 00:13:03,180but as an adult you know I'm friends

28000:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,910with people like Loren Coleman and

28100:13:03,179 --> 00:13:09,359Joseph Syd Rose who's famous for his New

28200:13:05,909 --> 00:13:13,409England tales you know these are my

28300:13:09,360 --> 00:13:15,750friends I I write to them we correspond

28400:13:13,409 --> 00:13:20,459we meet each other it's it's amazing

28500:13:15,750 --> 00:13:21,889they it's a very small club but we all

28600:13:20,460 --> 00:13:24,319know each other

28700:13:21,889 --> 00:13:27,079and I think we all get along pretty well

288


00:13:24,318 --> 00:13:28,428and we're always doing things that

28900:13:27,078 --> 00:13:30,438interest each other you know the really

29000:13:28,428 --> 00:13:32,208great thing about it when we find

29100:13:30,438 --> 00:13:34,548something that we think the other person

29200:13:32,208 --> 00:13:39,998will be interested in we send it to them

29300:13:34,548 --> 00:13:43,369because we all have our specialties so

29400:13:39,999 --> 00:13:45,709it really is just it is just such a

29500:13:43,369 --> 00:13:47,720great thing to be able to stand in front

29600:13:45,708 --> 00:13:52,248of a group of people who want to hear

29700:13:47,720 --> 00:13:55,309about some oddity that's well I'll give

29800:13:52,249 --> 00:13:58,220you an example I in my last book mrs.

29900:13:55,308 --> 00:14:00,558Wakeman verses the Antichrist I devoted

30000:13:58,220 --> 00:14:05,089a chapter to people that commit suicide

30100:14:00,558 --> 00:14:07,818by self decapitation now that is not a


30200:14:05,089 --> 00:14:10,279subject that I can go talk about at the

30300:14:07,818 --> 00:14:13,789Lions Club or the ladies Garden Club but

30400:14:10,278 --> 00:14:15,828I can go to the morbid anatomy library

30500:14:13,789 --> 00:14:19,009in Brooklyn and give a talk on it and

30600:14:15,828 --> 00:14:21,198risk and attract a large crowd and even

30700:14:19,009 --> 00:14:25,009put up gruesome pictures so for me it's

30800:14:21,198 --> 00:14:27,828just the best thing in the world would

30900:14:25,009 --> 00:14:31,938you call yourself a thriller type writer

31000:14:27,828 --> 00:14:34,458or are you more into the horror genre on

31100:14:31,938 --> 00:14:37,178either one I I if you asked me what I

31200:14:34,458 --> 00:14:41,318write I would say that I write history

31300:14:37,178 --> 00:14:44,119because everything that I'm involved in

31400:14:41,318 --> 00:14:46,399involves usually American history that

31500:14:44,119 --> 00:14:51,980


that's what really interests me and that

31600:14:46,399 --> 00:14:54,739is what I use to help to help reel in a

31700:14:51,980 --> 00:14:56,089little bit from you know when you've got

31800:14:54,739 --> 00:14:58,249when you're willing to write about

31900:14:56,089 --> 00:15:01,970anything and everything you can get a

32000:14:58,249 --> 00:15:04,339little scattered so I concentrate on

32100:15:01,970 --> 00:15:06,350things that happen in the United States

32200:15:04,339 --> 00:15:08,899although to be honest I have to tell you

32300:15:06,350 --> 00:15:10,459my very first published article whoa my

32400:15:08,899 --> 00:15:13,639second published article was on

32500:15:10,458 --> 00:15:17,058something that happened in Canada it was

32600:15:13,639 --> 00:15:19,459a little town there was a town called

32700:15:17,058 --> 00:15:25,269Halifax not the big city a small town

32800:15:19,458 --> 00:15:27,918called Halifax where the entire town was

32900:15:25,269 --> 00:15:31,159


pretending it was haunted to drive this

33000:15:27,918 --> 00:15:33,490local judge crazy because he believed in

33100:15:31,159 --> 00:15:36,730spiritualism and no one else did

33200:15:33,490 --> 00:15:38,799and they finally sent an investigator up

33300:15:36,730 --> 00:15:41,680from the American Society for psychical

33400:15:38,799 --> 00:15:42,819research to investigate the town and he

33500:15:41,679 --> 00:15:45,069followed the judge around and he

33600:15:42,820 --> 00:15:48,490realized that everyone in the town was

33700:15:45,070 --> 00:15:50,560doing things to to make him think the

33800:15:48,490 --> 00:15:53,259town was haunted it was a good story it

33900:15:50,559 --> 00:15:55,419appeared in the the in the in a magazine

34000:15:53,259 --> 00:15:57,610called the beaver which was the magazine

34100:15:55,419 --> 00:16:03,039of the Canadian Historical Society

34200:15:57,610 --> 00:16:05,259that's a long time ago now I just find

34300:16:03,039 --> 00:16:07,809


it absolutely intriguing that you are

34400:16:05,259 --> 00:16:10,179able to develop and find these stories

34500:16:07,809 --> 00:16:13,208you obviously research your information

34600:16:10,179 --> 00:16:17,439where are you finding these how do they

34700:16:13,208 --> 00:16:21,399come across your desk well well a couple

34800:16:17,440 --> 00:16:23,709of ways in a few cases a very few cases

34900:16:21,399 --> 00:16:25,409it comes from people telling me about

35000:16:23,708 --> 00:16:28,359something that I never heard about

35100:16:25,409 --> 00:16:30,399however my most popular story which

35200:16:28,360 --> 00:16:34,690we'll be talking about later came in

35300:16:30,399 --> 00:16:36,909that leg it was it was unusual most of

35400:16:34,690 --> 00:16:43,180the time I will come across them in my

35500:16:36,909 --> 00:16:47,860reading and I am also a real I go

35600:16:43,179 --> 00:16:51,849through old online newspaper articles

357


00:16:47,860 --> 00:16:54,579constantly I and I'd probably spend

35800:16:51,850 --> 00:16:57,850hours a week digging through these old

35900:16:54,578 --> 00:16:59,969newspaper archives because I am

36000:16:57,850 --> 00:17:02,040constantly finding things that are just

36100:16:59,970 --> 00:17:05,980fascinating they might not have happened

36200:17:02,039 --> 00:17:08,889news old newspapers were notorious for

36300:17:05,980 --> 00:17:11,068making things up for wildly exaggerating

36400:17:08,890 --> 00:17:17,050them just the way modern newspapers do

36500:17:11,068 --> 00:17:20,379but I have found things that way that

36600:17:17,049 --> 00:17:22,779really surprised me I'll give you an

36700:17:20,380 --> 00:17:25,179example in my next book the next book is

36800:17:22,779 --> 00:17:27,849going to be collections of strange but

36900:17:25,179 --> 00:17:29,890true stories like the previous two but

37000:17:27,849 --> 00:17:34,480this one I think is going to be a lot


37100:17:29,890 --> 00:17:38,040more emphasis on madness there's going

37200:17:34,480 --> 00:17:40,779to be more stories of people that were

37300:17:38,039 --> 00:17:43,928insane and did things that were very

37400:17:40,779 --> 00:17:46,230unusual so one of the stories for

37500:17:43,929 --> 00:17:50,250example is going to be on

37600:17:46,230 --> 00:17:52,950a minister in Michigan who murdered one

37700:17:50,250 --> 00:17:55,140of his parishioners and chopped up the

37800:17:52,950 --> 00:17:57,210body and stuffed it into a stove in the

37900:17:55,140 --> 00:17:58,710church he did all this he murdered and

38000:17:57,210 --> 00:18:01,798chopped him up and stuffed him in the

38100:17:58,710 --> 00:18:03,240stove inside the church and then

38200:18:01,798 --> 00:18:07,558disappeared this happened in the early

38300:18:03,240 --> 00:18:10,55820th century now when I found these

38400:18:07,558 --> 00:18:13,470story the story of my events I never


38500:18:10,558 --> 00:18:16,789heard of that and I'm a big true crime

38600:18:13,470 --> 00:18:20,279reader I read true crime constantly and

38700:18:16,789 --> 00:18:22,500so I did a little research and I finally

38800:18:20,279 --> 00:18:24,298contacted the local Historical Society

38900:18:22,500 --> 00:18:26,130and they were thrilled because they

39000:18:24,298 --> 00:18:28,798never heard of it even though it

39100:18:26,130 --> 00:18:31,559happened in a relatively small County it

39200:18:28,798 --> 00:18:33,869had been completely forgotten in the

39300:18:31,558 --> 00:18:36,210hundred or so years since it had

39400:18:33,869 --> 00:18:38,609happened so they were happy and they did

39500:18:36,210 --> 00:18:40,319they did more research for me than I

39600:18:38,609 --> 00:18:42,329could have hoped for

39700:18:40,319 --> 00:18:44,039and they sent it to me so I've got a

398


00:18:42,329 --> 00:18:47,369terrific story lined up for the next

39900:18:44,039 --> 00:18:52,168book and a bunch of others but again as

40000:18:47,369 --> 00:18:54,389often happens it does come from the from

40100:18:52,169 --> 00:18:57,090reading old newspaper stories in some

40200:18:54,390 --> 00:18:59,370cases again another story from mrs.

40300:18:57,089 --> 00:19:01,500Wakeman versus the Antichrist it is

40400:18:59,369 --> 00:19:05,250something that had been bothering me for

40500:19:01,500 --> 00:19:08,339years I don't know how many of your

40600:19:05,250 --> 00:19:12,058listeners are familiar with this but at

40700:19:08,339 --> 00:19:14,879the moment there is a clown panic going

40800:19:12,058 --> 00:19:16,740on in the United States yes there's the

40900:19:14,880 --> 00:19:21,150hell out of me Robert on panel I oh

41000:19:16,740 --> 00:19:24,509you're a color roelfo that's that's what

41100:19:21,150 --> 00:19:29,519they call it but the the clown panic


41200:19:24,509 --> 00:19:31,500that is going on now is nothing new a

41300:19:29,519 --> 00:19:33,839lot of people don't realize this but

41400:19:31,500 --> 00:19:36,630there have been clown panics going on in

41500:19:33,839 --> 00:19:41,308the United States and other parts of the

41600:19:36,630 --> 00:19:45,210world since at least 1980 or early early

41700:19:41,308 --> 00:19:48,8081980-81 I think I I haven't read that

41800:19:45,210 --> 00:19:53,250chapter in a while but in my last book I

41900:19:48,808 --> 00:19:55,918devoted a chapter to what I think is the

42000:19:53,250 --> 00:19:57,980origin of these clowns where they came

42100:19:55,919 --> 00:19:57,980from

42200:19:58,670 --> 00:20:03,830what they originally represented before

42300:20:01,619 --> 00:20:08,159they became before they jumped into

42400:20:03,829 --> 00:20:11,369mainstream popular urban folklore and

42500:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,480again that this was an example of one of


42600:20:11,369 --> 00:20:14,549the one of the great things about

42700:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,480knowing these people is that Loren

42800:20:14,549 --> 00:20:21,149Coleman is the man who discovered the

42900:20:17,480 --> 00:20:22,980first American clown panic and he wrote

43000:20:21,150 --> 00:20:25,140about it in his book mysterious America

43100:20:22,980 --> 00:20:28,589for people that want to get a little

43200:20:25,140 --> 00:20:30,420background on on clown panics I suggest

43300:20:28,589 --> 00:20:32,519they they take a look at mysterious

43400:20:30,420 --> 00:20:35,519America or or mrs. Wakeman versus the

43500:20:32,519 --> 00:20:38,519Antichrist because they'll see that this

43600:20:35,519 --> 00:20:43,589is nothing new it's happened before it

43700:20:38,519 --> 00:20:45,180was not reported online or on television

43800:20:43,589 --> 00:20:47,490at the time but it certainly was

43900:20:45,180 --> 00:20:49,529


reported in the newspaper so there have

44000:20:47,490 --> 00:20:52,680been a series of these although in the

44100:20:49,529 --> 00:20:54,720original version the clowns drove vans I

44200:20:52,680 --> 00:20:58,740don't think they're driving vans in the

44300:20:54,720 --> 00:21:01,259current panic and somebody goes in

44400:20:58,740 --> 00:21:03,809points puts a pitcher on the SOR space

44500:21:01,259 --> 00:21:05,670travelers bill Cardwell puts clown panic

44600:21:03,809 --> 00:21:07,319and he puts a picture of a clown I'm

44700:21:05,670 --> 00:21:11,759under your bed waiting

44800:21:07,319 --> 00:21:14,039oh it just scares the absolute lease

44900:21:11,759 --> 00:21:15,390cares the living daylights and you know

45000:21:14,039 --> 00:21:17,759what I don't know what it is because

45100:21:15,390 --> 00:21:20,009when I was a child I loved clowns

45200:21:17,759 --> 00:21:26,129everything to do with them the magic the


45300:21:20,009 --> 00:21:27,990balloon tricks you know the the if you

45400:21:26,130 --> 00:21:33,390don't I'm asking again how old are you

45500:21:27,990 --> 00:21:36,059I'm 43 okay so when you were growing up

45600:21:33,390 --> 00:21:38,040you're a little young to have to have

45700:21:36,059 --> 00:21:42,690been there when John Wayne Gacy was all

45800:21:38,039 --> 00:21:46,200the was in all the headlines and and I

45900:21:42,690 --> 00:21:50,490don't are you did you watch the TV

46000:21:46,200 --> 00:21:53,029miniseries it when it came out that was

46100:21:50,490 --> 00:21:55,440that no no I didn't but I recall

46200:21:53,029 --> 00:21:59,099remember watching it at the full-on

46300:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,900movie as a kid mm-hmm okay so you know

46400:21:59,099 --> 00:22:03,929remember you remember penny wise the

46500:22:00,900 --> 00:22:05,580dancing clown yes well well those things


46600:22:03,930 --> 00:22:08,580straight you know people often blame

46700:22:05,579 --> 00:22:11,159penny wise for starting these panics but

46800:22:08,579 --> 00:22:13,799the fact is penny wise came years after

46900:22:11,160 --> 00:22:16,950I think the the book came out in 86 I

47000:22:13,799 --> 00:22:19,440believe and the first the first

47100:22:16,950 --> 00:22:24,360widespread clown panic occurred in the

47200:22:19,440 --> 00:22:27,690very early 1980s now in in my book I

47300:22:24,359 --> 00:22:32,279have a theory that I obviously can't

47400:22:27,690 --> 00:22:35,220prove because it's a it's just something

47500:22:32,279 --> 00:22:37,460that uh that had been I've been thinking

47600:22:35,220 --> 00:22:41,430about for a couple of years but I

47700:22:37,460 --> 00:22:44,640believe that the the clown the figure of

47800:22:41,430 --> 00:22:47,220frightening clown the phantom clown the

47900:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,890killer clown because these early clowns


48000:22:47,220 --> 00:22:53,759and vans were carrying weapons usually

48100:22:49,890 --> 00:22:55,890dives or even guns and so and there was

48200:22:53,759 --> 00:22:58,140an odd sexual thing to it where some of

48300:22:55,890 --> 00:23:00,120them weren't wearing pants and of course

48400:22:58,140 --> 00:23:03,390they were approaching small children in

48500:23:00,119 --> 00:23:05,779their vans so you've got the whole

48600:23:03,390 --> 00:23:09,660[Music]

48700:23:05,779 --> 00:23:13,139serial killer child molester thing going

48800:23:09,660 --> 00:23:15,600on with with clowns and keep in mind

48900:23:13,140 --> 00:23:19,350that they also began to appear around

49000:23:15,599 --> 00:23:22,019the same times as the first

49100:23:19,349 --> 00:23:28,949satanic ritual abuse stories were coming

49200:23:22,019 --> 00:23:31,799out and the the panics that were

49300:23:28,950 --> 00:23:34,980occurring in daycare centers where there

494


00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:37,289was the this sudden massive fear of

49500:23:34,980 --> 00:23:39,390pedophiles so there was something going

49600:23:37,289 --> 00:23:42,149on in the cut-in it again I'm only

49700:23:39,390 --> 00:23:44,610talking about the United States here I

49800:23:42,150 --> 00:23:48,180don't know what was going on in another

49900:23:44,609 --> 00:23:50,399you know in Canada or Mexico but III

50000:23:48,180 --> 00:23:52,710think that this had its origins in the

50100:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,740United States and I think specifically

50200:23:52,710 --> 00:23:58,259it had its origins in Americans in

50300:23:55,740 --> 00:24:01,230America's black culture because you'll

50400:23:58,259 --> 00:24:06,869find that a lot of these stories begin

50500:24:01,230 --> 00:24:10,049in black neighborhoods in area in cities

50600:24:06,869 --> 00:24:15,479that are predominantly black and I think

50700:24:10,049 --> 00:24:19,950that the modern version of the phantom

50800:24:15,480 --> 00:24:24,450


clown goes back to the Atlanta child

50900:24:19,950 --> 00:24:26,490killings where if for those who remember

51000:24:24,450 --> 00:24:30,090this was something that went on in the

51100:24:26,490 --> 00:24:33,509in the 1970s where black children were

51200:24:30,089 --> 00:24:36,569being abducted and murdered in the city

51300:24:33,509 --> 00:24:38,609of Atlanta and although some people put

51400:24:36,569 --> 00:24:40,740the number of children as high as 40 it

51500:24:38,609 --> 00:24:42,479was probably much fewer and that was a

51600:24:40,740 --> 00:24:45,690list the police put together and it was

51700:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,000always very controversial but among the

51800:24:45,690 --> 00:24:51,480black and white citizens I later found

51900:24:48,000 --> 00:24:53,700out of Atlanta there was the there were

52000:24:51,480 --> 00:24:57,059a lot of rumors floating around before

52100:24:53,700 --> 00:25:00,059the before the killer was caught there

52200:24:57,059 --> 00:25:03,539


were rumors floating around about people

52300:25:00,059 --> 00:25:05,399being abducted in vans specifically in

52400:25:03,539 --> 00:25:08,059the black community there were stories

52500:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,769that black children were being abducted

52600:25:08,059 --> 00:25:15,569by the Center for Disease Control to

52700:25:10,769 --> 00:25:18,539create the cancer drug interferon there

52800:25:15,569 --> 00:25:21,299was an idea that it was that black

52900:25:18,539 --> 00:25:25,849children's blood was needed to create

53000:25:21,299 --> 00:25:29,519the drug interferon and this as

53100:25:25,849 --> 00:25:32,609surprising as it sounds this was not

53200:25:29,519 --> 00:25:34,980something new in black folklore this

53300:25:32,609 --> 00:25:37,589actually goes back to something earlier

53400:25:34,980 --> 00:25:40,920called the knight doctors and the knight

53500:25:37,589 --> 00:25:43,639doctors were was this belief that began

536


00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,410in the 19th century probably and

53700:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,380continued well into the 20th century at

53800:25:46,410 --> 00:25:51,330least into the 1920s and 30s because I

53900:25:49,380 --> 00:25:54,420have clippings coming up to that that

54000:25:51,329 --> 00:25:57,449point where it was believed that doctors

54100:25:54,420 --> 00:26:00,480and medical students would travel around

54200:25:57,450 --> 00:26:04,140at night and abduct black people and use

54300:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,900them in experiments and dissect them and

54400:26:04,140 --> 00:26:10,680use their blood to make medication in

54500:26:06,900 --> 00:26:13,830fact there was a belief for years that

54600:26:10,680 --> 00:26:17,940castor oil was made from the blood or

54700:26:13,829 --> 00:26:21,809the fact of of black victims who had

54800:26:17,940 --> 00:26:24,029been abducted by these by these knight

54900:26:21,809 --> 00:26:27,109


doctors and the knight doctors would do

55000:26:24,029 --> 00:26:30,349things like they would travel around in

55100:26:27,109 --> 00:26:34,379carts with muffled wheels and their

55200:26:30,349 --> 00:26:35,969horses would have rubber soled shoes on

55300:26:34,380 --> 00:26:38,530so that they would you couldn't hear

55400:26:35,970 --> 00:26:40,690them coming they would wear to sky

55500:26:38,529 --> 00:26:43,269they would throw hypodermic needles and

55600:26:40,690 --> 00:26:44,850people full of drugs that would paralyze

55700:26:43,269 --> 00:26:48,670them and then they would be carried off

55800:26:44,849 --> 00:26:51,730now again you can say that sounds like a

55900:26:48,670 --> 00:26:55,840crazy kind of folklore however it is

56000:26:51,730 --> 00:26:57,940also true that throughout the 19th

56100:26:55,839 --> 00:27:02,740century and again well into the 20th

56200:26:57,940 --> 00:27:05,500century black people that died in the

56300:27:02,740 --> 00:27:08,289


South had a very good chance of their

56400:27:05,500 --> 00:27:11,470bodies being stolen and sold to medical

56500:27:08,289 --> 00:27:14,909schools for dissected dissection

56600:27:11,470 --> 00:27:18,069specimens so yes there was an actual

56700:27:14,910 --> 00:27:21,519there there were bodies being stolen I

56800:27:18,069 --> 00:27:23,439mean if the numbers are staggering I

56900:27:21,519 --> 00:27:26,259mean it's the sort of thing where you

57000:27:23,440 --> 00:27:29,289just you have to look into the real

57100:27:26,259 --> 00:27:31,119history of it it's shocking so but again

57200:27:29,289 --> 00:27:34,930the knight doctors didn't come out of

57300:27:31,119 --> 00:27:38,699nowhere there was also the very real Ku

57400:27:34,930 --> 00:27:41,320Klux Klan and as an and they're worse

57500:27:38,700 --> 00:27:43,539when you look at the early night doctor

57600:27:41,319 --> 00:27:47,259folklore there is a lot of overlapping

577


00:27:43,539 --> 00:27:49,269they would call them Q Klux doctors so

57800:27:47,259 --> 00:27:52,049there was an overlapping between the Ku

57900:27:49,269 --> 00:27:54,670Klux Klan and these night doctors and

58000:27:52,049 --> 00:27:57,490think about the Ku Klux Klan for a

58100:27:54,670 --> 00:28:00,310minute they were white faced men

58200:27:57,490 --> 00:28:02,589carrying weapons wearing bizarre

58300:28:00,309 --> 00:28:04,960clothing and doing terrible things to

58400:28:02,589 --> 00:28:07,409black people which is not a bad

58500:28:04,960 --> 00:28:10,690description of what these clowns are

58600:28:07,410 --> 00:28:13,480they were bizarre grotesque white faced

58700:28:10,690 --> 00:28:14,710people who would abduct again in the

58800:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,170original version they were they were

58900:28:14,710 --> 00:28:19,240grabbing black children and taking them

59000:28:17,170 --> 00:28:21,509off to something horrible I actually

591


00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:25,450think that there is a connection between

59200:28:21,509 --> 00:28:27,940black folklore about the clowns about

59300:28:25,450 --> 00:28:30,700the Klan rather and modern folklore

59400:28:27,940 --> 00:28:34,390about the clowns and the even that

59500:28:30,700 --> 00:28:37,690similarity in names Klan and clown might

59600:28:34,390 --> 00:28:40,660sound like a tenuous connection but in

59700:28:37,690 --> 00:28:42,690folklore that's not unusual for example

59800:28:40,660 --> 00:28:46,630take cool cigarettes

59900:28:42,690 --> 00:28:48,970Kol cigarettes at one point there was an

60000:28:46,630 --> 00:28:51,430attempt to market kool cigarettes to a

60100:28:48,970 --> 00:28:55,450black to black consumers

60200:28:51,430 --> 00:28:58,420however the chain in the cool was

60300:28:55,450 --> 00:29:02,620interpreted by many black consumers as a

60400:28:58,420 --> 00:29:05,320symbol of the Klan and that this was a

60500:29:02,619 --> 00:29:07,569


Klan plant to kill black people by

60600:29:05,319 --> 00:29:10,990giving them cancer through cigarettes so

60700:29:07,569 --> 00:29:13,779the cool cigarette brand never took off

60800:29:10,990 --> 00:29:19,329among the target audience so again what

60900:29:13,779 --> 00:29:21,789sounds odd actually does have an effect

61000:29:19,329 --> 00:29:24,129now the Ku Klux Klan however of course

61100:29:21,789 --> 00:29:26,859again didn't come out of nowhere I think

61200:29:24,130 --> 00:29:29,410that the original well alongside the

61300:29:26,859 --> 00:29:31,029original but one of the earliest forms

61400:29:29,410 --> 00:29:36,759of where the clown's might have come

61500:29:31,029 --> 00:29:39,160from were people who used to patrol the

61600:29:36,759 --> 00:29:40,599the communities to make sure slaves

61700:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,700didn't come out at night they were

61800:29:40,599 --> 00:29:44,859called patter rollers which is just a

619


00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:47,049sort of slang term for Patrol or

62000:29:44,859 --> 00:29:51,369pattyroller and they would sometimes

62100:29:47,049 --> 00:29:53,230dress up and grotesque costumes and to

62200:29:51,369 --> 00:29:55,149try to keep people inside at night

62300:29:53,230 --> 00:29:57,039because they didn't want black slaves

62400:29:55,150 --> 00:29:59,710roaming specifically because they were

62500:29:57,039 --> 00:30:01,960afraid that they would steal things and

62600:29:59,710 --> 00:30:03,850sell them to other plantations or that

62700:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,710they might be fomenting a revolution

62800:30:03,849 --> 00:30:08,559which was that was one of the great

62900:30:05,710 --> 00:30:11,259terrors of the south during slavery and

63000:30:08,559 --> 00:30:14,500if you want to go back one step further

63100:30:11,259 --> 00:30:17,230to possibly the very beginning you've

63200:30:14,500 --> 00:30:19,269got white faced people taking black

633


00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:22,750slaves on in Africa and carrying them

63400:30:19,269 --> 00:30:24,339away in a bizarre vehicle that they had

63500:30:22,750 --> 00:30:26,799most many had never seen before

63600:30:24,339 --> 00:30:29,109off to a horrific fate you know most

63700:30:26,799 --> 00:30:33,190people don't realize this but one of the

63800:30:29,109 --> 00:30:36,639great terrors of being taken by slave

63900:30:33,190 --> 00:30:38,980slavers among Africans at the time was

64000:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,860the belief that white people were not

64100:30:38,980 --> 00:30:44,170enslaving black slaves but eating them

64200:30:41,859 --> 00:30:46,359and that is why they took them in such

64300:30:44,170 --> 00:30:47,860enormous numbers why they just kept

64400:30:46,359 --> 00:30:49,299taking them and taking them and taking

64500:30:47,859 --> 00:30:53,559them because they were actually eating

64600:30:49,299 --> 00:30:56,740them so they'll take this basic idea of

647


00:30:53,559 --> 00:31:02,700these white faced cannibal monsters and

64800:30:56,740 --> 00:31:04,779it's not too great a stretch to see the

64900:31:02,700 --> 00:31:09,210shadow of that

65000:31:04,779 --> 00:31:12,879in these modern clowns that seem to be

65100:31:09,210 --> 00:31:14,319concentrating on abducting children boy

65200:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,700I talked about that for longer than I

65300:31:14,319 --> 00:31:17,439was expecting

65400:31:15,700 --> 00:31:19,210that's alright I was wondering if you

65500:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,860actually breathe we're breathing through

65600:31:19,210 --> 00:31:26,170that you know it's difficult for me

65700:31:23,859 --> 00:31:28,689being way up here in in the west coast

65800:31:26,170 --> 00:31:30,970of Canada and you being in New Jersey

65900:31:28,690 --> 00:31:34,420for me to get you a defibrillator that

66000:31:30,970 --> 00:31:36,640quickly you know what I'm saying I find

661


00:31:34,420 --> 00:31:39,970the subject interesting and once I get

66200:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,759started it's hard to stop but I really

66300:31:39,970 --> 00:31:46,660don't mind it makes my job easier on all

66400:31:42,759 --> 00:31:48,930right well the the idea of this also the

66500:31:46,660 --> 00:31:52,240the only reason I I take some

66600:31:48,930 --> 00:31:55,660satisfaction in having put this idea

66700:31:52,240 --> 00:31:59,140together is that some other people that

66800:31:55,660 --> 00:32:01,240have looked into the Phantom clowns and

66900:31:59,140 --> 00:32:02,650the clown panics think there might be

67000:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,380something they they think there might be

67100:32:02,650 --> 00:32:08,130something to it specifically writers

67200:32:05,380 --> 00:32:12,460like Theo PI immense and Joe Derwin and

67300:32:08,130 --> 00:32:16,660I would recommend to listeners to read


67400:32:12,460 --> 00:32:20,559Joe Derwin essay on frightening clowns

67500:32:16,660 --> 00:32:22,420and why where the idea of the

67600:32:20,559 --> 00:32:24,940frightening clown might have come from

67700:32:22,420 --> 00:32:28,060in fact he's also got a Facebook page on

67800:32:24,940 --> 00:32:31,559it called dark clowns that they might

67900:32:28,059 --> 00:32:31,559want to look into it's very interesting

68000:32:32,910 --> 00:32:39,610do you think Hollywood now the way that

68100:32:36,309 --> 00:32:42,819clowns have kind of been ostracized in

68200:32:39,609 --> 00:32:45,849such a fashion that Hollywood and video

68300:32:42,819 --> 00:32:49,210games really has a huge part to play in

68400:32:45,849 --> 00:32:51,490the demonizing of what was supposed to

68500:32:49,210 --> 00:32:53,620be a happy children's character because

68600:32:51,490 --> 00:32:58,539I mean you look at Bozo the Clown now I

68700:32:53,619 --> 00:33:00,159mean he's bearing some mean fangs well

688


00:32:58,539 --> 00:33:04,659you know I think there might be a

68900:33:00,160 --> 00:33:08,680chicken and egg question I do know of

69000:33:04,660 --> 00:33:11,440some early scary clowns some people for

69100:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,390example say the Joker was an early scary

69200:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,519clown I'll be honest I never thought of

69300:33:13,390 --> 00:33:18,220him as clown I don't know why that just

69400:33:15,519 --> 00:33:19,839never occurred to me but they

69500:33:18,220 --> 00:33:22,870they point to the Joker and they point

69600:33:19,839 --> 00:33:26,288to other a few other things but the fact

69700:33:22,869 --> 00:33:28,689of the matter is that though most of

69800:33:26,288 --> 00:33:32,558what they're talking about appeared

69900:33:28,690 --> 00:33:34,350after the first big clown panic of the

70000:33:32,558 --> 00:33:36,759early 1980s

70100:33:34,349 --> 00:33:43,990Pennywise the dancing clown appeared

702


00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:47,440after that it is true that John Wayne

70300:33:43,990 --> 00:33:49,950Gacy was earlier than that and I think

70400:33:47,440 --> 00:33:53,919John Wayne Gacy played a part in

70500:33:49,950 --> 00:33:57,009crystallizing the the idea of the modern

70600:33:53,919 --> 00:33:59,590scary clown because and again you know I

70700:33:57,009 --> 00:34:02,470sometimes forget that I'm a little older

70800:33:59,589 --> 00:34:04,119than a lot of some people so for those

70900:34:02,470 --> 00:34:07,419who aren't familiar with them John Wayne

71000:34:04,119 --> 00:34:11,529Gacy was a serial killer in out right

71100:34:07,419 --> 00:34:16,418outside of Chicago in the mid 70s he was

71200:34:11,530 --> 00:34:16,899caught and he he abducted murdered and

71300:34:16,418 --> 00:34:20,259tortured

71400:34:16,898 --> 00:34:22,960young men in fact his crawlspace beneath

715


00:34:20,260 --> 00:34:24,339his house was full of bodies so many

71600:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,940that when people came into his house

71700:34:24,338 --> 00:34:31,088they they could smell the decay but John

71800:34:27,940 --> 00:34:34,418Wayne Gacy was not one of those loners

71900:34:31,088 --> 00:34:36,519who you know the neighbors and said he

72000:34:34,418 --> 00:34:39,250never spoke but he always seemed nice

72100:34:36,519 --> 00:34:42,489enough he was actually a very busy man

72200:34:39,250 --> 00:34:44,320who was involved in the Jaycees and he

72300:34:42,489 --> 00:34:46,479was involved in all sorts of community

72400:34:44,320 --> 00:34:50,200activities and one of these community

72500:34:46,480 --> 00:34:52,599activities was he would take part in

72600:34:50,199 --> 00:34:56,319parades where he would dress up as a

72700:34:52,599 --> 00:34:59,619clown so here was a genuine serial

72800:34:56,320 --> 00:35:03,880killer whose hobby was dressing up as a

72900:34:59,619 --> 00:35:05,829


clown called Pogo and I think that there

73000:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,079was another clown called patches that

73100:35:05,829 --> 00:35:11,949had yet another costume for but the

73200:35:08,079 --> 00:35:13,358image of Pogo a photograph specifically

73300:35:11,949 --> 00:35:16,329that was taken of John Wayne Gacy

73400:35:13,358 --> 00:35:19,750standing on the porch of his house a

73500:35:16,329 --> 00:35:21,639house that we now know had 30 bodies in

73600:35:19,750 --> 00:35:24,369the basement and a couple more buried on

73700:35:21,639 --> 00:35:27,000property the idea of him seeing him

73800:35:24,369 --> 00:35:31,030standing there in full clown makeup

73900:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,659waving to the camera is I think that

74000:35:31,030 --> 00:35:35,069made of

74100:35:31,659 --> 00:35:38,858very memorable impression on the public

74200:35:35,068 --> 00:35:41,619here was a serial killer Klown it was

743


00:35:38,858 --> 00:35:44,078real and it was a frightening thing that

74400:35:41,619 --> 00:35:47,559I don't think was ever able to roll back

74500:35:44,079 --> 00:35:51,220I think it kind of pointed out to people

74600:35:47,559 --> 00:35:55,450that look clowns are grotesque clowns

74700:35:51,219 --> 00:35:58,029have clowns are suspicious what are they

74800:35:55,449 --> 00:36:02,848hiding behind that makeup why is this

74900:35:58,030 --> 00:36:05,710grown adult acting so strangely and

75000:36:02,849 --> 00:36:07,298here's another thing that I just this is

75100:36:05,710 --> 00:36:09,099something that occurred to me I I don't

75200:36:07,298 --> 00:36:09,519know if there's any validity to it at

75300:36:09,099 --> 00:36:12,160all

75400:36:09,519 --> 00:36:14,280but if you've ever seen the picture have

75500:36:12,159 --> 00:36:17,139you ever seen pictures of a big predator

75600:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,420after they've taken down their prey look

757


00:36:17,139 --> 00:36:21,159at them their mouth is surrounded by red

75800:36:19,420 --> 00:36:23,440and they've got usually a big red stain

75900:36:21,159 --> 00:36:25,210on their nose and I think there's

76000:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,568something predatory about a clown's

76100:36:25,210 --> 00:36:30,970appearance I've often wanted to see how

76200:36:28,568 --> 00:36:32,739animals would respond to a clown mask

76300:36:30,969 --> 00:36:38,798but they won't let me wear one at the

76400:36:32,739 --> 00:36:40,719zoo when it comes to these types of

76500:36:38,798 --> 00:36:42,670legends and folklore and everything that

76600:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,169kind of always builds around it like you

76700:36:42,670 --> 00:36:46,240were mentioning John Wayne Gacy and

76800:36:44,170 --> 00:36:48,490other serial killers they always seem to

76900:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,379have some sort of pattern that kind of

77000:36:48,489 --> 00:36:54,038goes around with them when it comes to


77100:36:50,380 --> 00:36:55,599stories like the bye-bye man though this

77200:36:54,039 --> 00:36:58,059is something that I personally have

77300:36:55,599 --> 00:37:01,450never heard of this is something that I

77400:36:58,059 --> 00:37:03,789found very very difficult to even

77500:37:01,449 --> 00:37:04,989believe I mean because I've heard a lot

77600:37:03,789 --> 00:37:08,589of things on this show

77700:37:04,989 --> 00:37:09,548I've heard of frog man Mothman Wolfman

77800:37:08,588 --> 00:37:13,838dog man

77900:37:09,548 --> 00:37:16,960goat man and now I have to throw forgot

78000:37:13,838 --> 00:37:20,920Slenderman now I have to throw in bye

78100:37:16,960 --> 00:37:23,679bye man yes yes well to start with let

78200:37:20,920 --> 00:37:27,400me let me point something out that by by

78300:37:23,679 --> 00:37:32,399man is considerably older than the

78400:37:27,400 --> 00:37:38,500Slender Man so he predates it and his


78500:37:32,400 --> 00:37:41,559story is unusual in that it doesn't it

78600:37:38,500 --> 00:37:44,619didn't come around it well first of all

78700:37:41,559 --> 00:37:45,190Slenderman is also very unusual we know

78800:37:44,619 --> 00:37:47,380who in

78900:37:45,190 --> 00:37:49,690- Slenderman we know that date that

79000:37:47,380 --> 00:37:51,220Slenderman first appeared online with

79100:37:49,690 --> 00:37:54,639those photographs that were created for

79200:37:51,219 --> 00:37:56,578the creepypasta contest so we know we

79300:37:54,639 --> 00:37:58,900you know who owns the copyright on

79400:37:56,579 --> 00:38:02,769Slenderman because he is a copyrighted

79500:37:58,900 --> 00:38:06,400figure most folk figures aren't like

79600:38:02,769 --> 00:38:08,230that you take somebody like goatman one

79700:38:06,400 --> 00:38:12,250of several you know goat man of the

79800:38:08,230 --> 00:38:13,750


public bridge or one of the other goat

79900:38:12,250 --> 00:38:16,179men because there are a couple of them

80000:38:13,750 --> 00:38:18,579goat men at Prince George County in

80100:38:16,179 --> 00:38:22,179Maryland we don't really know where they

80200:38:18,579 --> 00:38:24,609come from they are old stories that

80300:38:22,179 --> 00:38:28,049associated with lonely places often with

80400:38:24,608 --> 00:38:30,338lovers lanes you can come up with

80500:38:28,050 --> 00:38:33,490explanations for why they become

80600:38:30,338 --> 00:38:35,009associated with these places but we

80700:38:33,489 --> 00:38:39,899usually think they appear spontaneously

80800:38:35,010 --> 00:38:42,790and over time sometimes they have some

80900:38:39,900 --> 00:38:44,200basis and truth sometimes they don't or

81000:38:42,789 --> 00:38:45,029if they do we don't know what it is

81100:38:44,199 --> 00:38:50,289anymore

81200:38:45,030 --> 00:38:53,500now the by by man's origin is a little


81300:38:50,289 --> 00:38:56,889different I first heard of the by-by man

81400:38:53,500 --> 00:39:00,730when I was attending a party given by a

81500:38:56,889 --> 00:39:01,059friend of mine who gives a party every

81600:39:00,730 --> 00:39:03,550year

81700:39:01,059 --> 00:39:05,259on what we call what he calls Devil's

81800:39:03,550 --> 00:39:07,300night which is the night before

81900:39:05,260 --> 00:39:09,490Halloween I've also heard it called

82000:39:07,300 --> 00:39:11,440goosey night and where I grew up here in

82100:39:09,489 --> 00:39:13,509New Jersey it was called cabbage night

82200:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,950and it's the night you're supposed to be

82300:39:13,510 --> 00:39:17,260mischievous I've also heard it called

82400:39:14,949 --> 00:39:18,608mischief night mischief night so it's

82500:39:17,260 --> 00:39:23,400the night you're supposed to go out and

826


00:39:18,608 --> 00:39:25,719toy toilet-paper a tree or or spray

82700:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,608spray shaving cream on the neighbors

82800:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,909windows things like that but he has a

82900:39:27,608 --> 00:39:34,509party ever every year and every year at

83000:39:30,909 --> 00:39:38,078the end of the party he asks guests to

83100:39:34,510 --> 00:39:42,670tell a ghost story or to tell a story

83200:39:38,079 --> 00:39:45,010that they personally experienced so you

83300:39:42,670 --> 00:39:47,680know you usually get five or six people

83400:39:45,010 --> 00:39:50,410who would tell about a ghost story or

83500:39:47,679 --> 00:39:53,049they would tell about some strange thing

83600:39:50,409 --> 00:39:54,489that happened let's say they had a dream

83700:39:53,050 --> 00:39:57,990about a relative on the night that

83800:39:54,489 --> 00:39:59,849relative died that sort of thing

83900:39:57,989 --> 00:40:03,989some of them were actually fairly creepy

84000:39:59,849 --> 00:40:06,839


but when they were done talking my

84100:40:03,989 --> 00:40:10,259friend whose name is Eli he would tell

84200:40:06,840 --> 00:40:15,119the story of the bye-bye man and it was

84300:40:10,260 --> 00:40:18,950uh it was the way we closed the evening

84400:40:15,119 --> 00:40:22,190now the story of the bye-bye man

84500:40:18,949 --> 00:40:26,250happened to him and two friends of him

84600:40:22,190 --> 00:40:30,809two friends of his rather so imagine

84700:40:26,250 --> 00:40:33,389three friends living in Wisconsin in the

84800:40:30,809 --> 00:40:36,059early 1990s there all of them college

84900:40:33,389 --> 00:40:38,309students and the three characters are

85000:40:36,059 --> 00:40:40,619Eli who Otto told the story of the

85100:40:38,309 --> 00:40:45,029bye-bye man his girlfriend

85200:40:40,619 --> 00:40:47,930whose name is Catherine and a mutual

85300:40:45,030 --> 00:40:50,760friend of theirs whose name was Jonathan

85400:40:47,929 --> 00:40:52,889


Eli and Catherine were dating at the

85500:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,540time Jonathan was a friend of both of

85600:40:52,889 --> 00:40:56,429them that I I just I have to lay that

85700:40:54,539 --> 00:41:01,920out so the rest of the story makes more

85800:40:56,429 --> 00:41:05,669sense well Eli was keeping he worked in

85900:41:01,920 --> 00:41:07,590a group home where he kept tragedy kept

86000:41:05,670 --> 00:41:09,000watch over people who were suffering

86100:41:07,590 --> 00:41:11,070from a disease called prader-willi

86200:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,489disease which is a very odd disease

86300:41:11,070 --> 00:41:16,800people who have it never never feel

86400:41:14,489 --> 00:41:19,139satisfied and they will eat almost

86500:41:16,800 --> 00:41:21,060anything they'll eat a bag of flour the

86600:41:19,139 --> 00:41:23,608Li toothpaste they'll be in anything to

86700:41:21,059 --> 00:41:25,289try to satisfy this constant hunger but


86800:41:23,608 --> 00:41:26,429he was working too he had to keep an eye

86900:41:25,289 --> 00:41:28,500on them to make sure they didn't run

87000:41:26,429 --> 00:41:31,980away and start eating so he was working

87100:41:28,500 --> 00:41:35,670this group home and he was visited often

87200:41:31,980 --> 00:41:41,130by his girlfriend and one at one time

87300:41:35,670 --> 00:41:46,550that some someone gave Eli an old an old

87400:41:41,130 --> 00:41:51,240Ouija board and this Ouija board

87500:41:46,550 --> 00:41:57,680supposedly had been found in an attic

87600:41:51,239 --> 00:42:00,750where it was being used to hope it'll

87700:41:57,679 --> 00:42:03,599keep a hole to keep a hole from

87800:42:00,750 --> 00:42:05,250appearing in the attic or she win from

87900:42:03,599 --> 00:42:07,858coming through a hole in the attic or

88000:42:05,250 --> 00:42:11,150something like that so he my friend Eli


88100:42:07,858 --> 00:42:11,150is very interested in

88200:42:11,590 --> 00:42:19,150psychic phenomena and very interested in

88300:42:15,190 --> 00:42:23,050scary phenomena so he thought it would

88400:42:19,150 --> 00:42:26,380be fun to experiment with the board so

88500:42:23,050 --> 00:42:31,750they began to hold I guess you could

88600:42:26,380 --> 00:42:34,920call them seances and Eli and Catherine

88700:42:31,750 --> 00:42:37,300would try getting results no good

88800:42:34,920 --> 00:42:40,720Eli and Jonathan would try getting

88900:42:37,300 --> 00:42:42,820results no good so but it turned out

89000:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,589that when Jonathan and Catherine worked

89100:42:42,820 --> 00:42:47,140together they were able to get the board

89200:42:44,590 --> 00:42:49,570to move they were able to get responses

89300:42:47,139 --> 00:42:51,670so they started out and they were

89400:42:49,570 --> 00:42:55,300getting responses and they were nice


89500:42:51,670 --> 00:42:58,630kind of like New Age type spirits saying

89600:42:55,300 --> 00:43:02,560talking about how nice good vibrations

89700:42:58,630 --> 00:43:04,900are and oh the it was it was fine it

89800:43:02,559 --> 00:43:07,719wasn't didn't bother anybody oh but that

89900:43:04,900 --> 00:43:12,610bored Eli so he said well let's do some

90000:43:07,719 --> 00:43:15,399experiments to see if we we could we

90100:43:12,610 --> 00:43:17,829really to get a wider variety of spirits

90200:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,970so they called them spirits but that

90300:43:17,829 --> 00:43:21,670isn't what he didn't think they were

90400:43:18,969 --> 00:43:23,379spirits but they began to get this big

90500:43:21,670 --> 00:43:26,800variety of spirits that were really very

90600:43:23,380 --> 00:43:28,900much individuals and the only way to

90700:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,970reach them and this is this is a kind of

908


00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:32,800an a unique thing about this story the

90900:43:30,969 --> 00:43:35,980only way to reach these spirits was

91000:43:32,800 --> 00:43:38,769through a spirit called the spirit of

91100:43:35,980 --> 00:43:41,650the board now the spirit of the board

91200:43:38,769 --> 00:43:44,650claimed to live inside that particular

91300:43:41,650 --> 00:43:46,480region board and when you got into

91400:43:44,650 --> 00:43:49,110contact with the with the spirit of the

91500:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,760board he would then connect you to

91600:43:49,110 --> 00:43:54,340another spirit and they ended up being

91700:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,350in contact with ten or twelve different

91800:43:54,340 --> 00:43:59,440so-called spirits and they could

91900:43:56,349 --> 00:44:01,779actually tell them apart because some of

92000:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,909them moved the Ouija board slower

92100:44:01,780 --> 00:44:05,680some of them whose contractions some of


92200:44:03,909 --> 00:44:06,940them didn't spell well some of them did

92300:44:05,679 --> 00:44:10,089that sort of thing

92400:44:06,940 --> 00:44:11,950so it was all very interesting however

92500:44:10,090 --> 00:44:14,500Eli wanted to push it a little further

92600:44:11,949 --> 00:44:19,569so he said let's do some experiments

92700:44:14,500 --> 00:44:22,820let's see if we can get the board to

92800:44:19,570 --> 00:44:25,789give us responses under different

92900:44:22,820 --> 00:44:29,630circumstances so they would try things

93000:44:25,789 --> 00:44:33,710like jonathan would be blindfolded and

93100:44:29,630 --> 00:44:35,119catherine would and but they would still

93200:44:33,710 --> 00:44:37,099be pushing it around and they got they

93300:44:35,119 --> 00:44:38,420got answers and then catherine would be

93400:44:37,099 --> 00:44:40,639blindfolded and then they would both be

93500:44:38,420 --> 00:44:42,619blindfolded and then they would try it


93600:44:40,639 --> 00:44:44,059in the dark and it all worked out pretty

93700:44:42,619 --> 00:44:46,609well they were always getting answers to

93800:44:44,059 --> 00:44:47,750their to their to their questions and

93900:44:46,610 --> 00:44:49,640they would continue getting these

94000:44:47,750 --> 00:44:51,440responses and they were able to continue

94100:44:49,639 --> 00:44:55,339spelling them out even when they were

94200:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,409blindfolded so then eli tried something

94300:44:55,340 --> 00:45:00,170a little more he said well let's see

94400:44:57,409 --> 00:45:01,940what will happen if i don't tell me my

94500:45:00,170 --> 00:45:04,760question but i write it down and

94600:45:01,940 --> 00:45:06,980concentrate on it and see if you guys

94700:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,240can answer the question and they did

94800:45:06,980 --> 00:45:14,000that for a while they didn't have much

949


00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:15,919luck with that one and then they wanted

95000:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,260to then be alright this is the last

95100:45:15,920 --> 00:45:22,400experiment this was the experiment that

95200:45:18,260 --> 00:45:25,190got them into trouble Eli said let's see

95300:45:22,400 --> 00:45:28,760if we can get into contact with a spirit

95400:45:25,190 --> 00:45:32,360or so-called spirit that can give us

95500:45:28,760 --> 00:45:35,180information that I can look up and

95600:45:32,360 --> 00:45:38,289validate that yes this thing really did

95700:45:35,179 --> 00:45:42,199exist this person really did exist and

95800:45:38,289 --> 00:45:43,789it is speaking through you too and

95900:45:42,199 --> 00:45:46,369neither of you could have known this

96000:45:43,789 --> 00:45:48,440person so I don't know let's give it as

96100:45:46,369 --> 00:45:50,329an example somebody they'll given the

96200:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,670gift someone will give them an unusual


96300:45:50,329 --> 00:45:55,069name claimed to have been living in such

96400:45:52,670 --> 00:45:57,289a place at such a time and they do a

96500:45:55,070 --> 00:45:59,360census search and yes they are able to

96600:45:57,289 --> 00:46:03,800uncover this person that would be

96700:45:59,360 --> 00:46:08,630considered some some validation that yes

96800:46:03,800 --> 00:46:11,450this is really happening they didn't

96900:46:08,630 --> 00:46:13,820have much luck with that but they did

97000:46:11,449 --> 00:46:16,819have luck with something else and that

97100:46:13,820 --> 00:46:20,630was that the spirit of the board told

97200:46:16,820 --> 00:46:23,000them that there was a living being a

97300:46:20,630 --> 00:46:26,960living person that wanted to get in

97400:46:23,000 --> 00:46:30,559contact with them but this living person

97500:46:26,960 --> 00:46:33,949was evil and the spirit of the board

97600:46:30,559 --> 00:46:35,989didn't want them to be in contact with


97700:46:33,949 --> 00:46:38,599this living person well

97800:46:35,989 --> 00:46:41,269that was waving a red rag in front of

97900:46:38,599 --> 00:46:45,259Eli I that was all he wanted to see he

98000:46:41,269 --> 00:46:46,159is fascinated by fear and the horror in

98100:46:45,260 --> 00:46:48,140fact he's written

98200:46:46,159 --> 00:46:50,179he's written stories he's even written

98300:46:48,139 --> 00:46:53,179plays that have been produced just on

98400:46:50,179 --> 00:46:58,159the subject of fear so this really

98500:46:53,179 --> 00:47:00,319intrigued him and he said he's this is

98600:46:58,159 --> 00:47:02,420the one we want to talk to we don't want

98700:47:00,320 --> 00:47:05,090to talk to anything else let's get in

98800:47:02,420 --> 00:47:08,240contact with this living evil being and

98900:47:05,090 --> 00:47:10,869see what happens well Katherine didn't

99000:47:08,239 --> 00:47:13,729want to but he kept at it and finally

991


00:47:10,869 --> 00:47:16,910they they decided they were going to do

99200:47:13,730 --> 00:47:18,860it but then all the other spirits that

99300:47:16,909 --> 00:47:20,149they spoke to disappeared because they

99400:47:18,860 --> 00:47:23,510didn't want anything to do with this

99500:47:20,150 --> 00:47:27,139evil being and neither did the spirit of

99600:47:23,510 --> 00:47:29,000the board he actually said that he

99700:47:27,139 --> 00:47:32,449wasn't going to have anything to do with

99800:47:29,000 --> 00:47:36,050this and stopped communicating even

99900:47:32,449 --> 00:47:37,129though he really wanted to he he kept no

100000:47:36,050 --> 00:47:38,539no I'm sorry I'm getting a little

100100:47:37,130 --> 00:47:40,550confused I've told the story many times

100200:47:38,539 --> 00:47:43,309I'm falling or I'm tripping over my own

100300:47:40,550 --> 00:47:45,950feet he wanted to keep talking to them

100400:47:43,309 --> 00:47:48,559about the kinds of things they had been


100500:47:45,949 --> 00:47:53,480doing but they wanted to talk to this

100600:47:48,559 --> 00:47:56,029evil being and they said they were not

100700:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,230going to talk to him anymore unless they

100800:47:56,030 --> 00:47:59,450were going to talk the spirit anymore

100900:47:57,230 --> 00:48:03,949unless he put them into contact with

101000:47:59,449 --> 00:48:05,480them and they sort of went on strike to

101100:48:03,949 --> 00:48:10,009get the spirit to do what they wanted

101200:48:05,480 --> 00:48:14,329and after a lot of coaxing and many many

101300:48:10,010 --> 00:48:19,850sessions they finally forced the story

101400:48:14,329 --> 00:48:21,590of this living being from the spirit of

101500:48:19,849 --> 00:48:23,630the board they never actually came into

101600:48:21,590 --> 00:48:24,980contact with the spirit with the living

101700:48:23,630 --> 00:48:27,230being but this all went through the


101800:48:24,980 --> 00:48:29,570spirit of the board and I think we're

101900:48:27,230 --> 00:48:33,139coming up on the hour should we take a

102000:48:29,570 --> 00:48:34,160break well we got about 3540 seconds and

102100:48:33,139 --> 00:48:37,279all of a sudden we're gonna hear some

102200:48:34,159 --> 00:48:38,868music play in the background but the

102300:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,820comments that are coming through from

102400:48:38,869 --> 00:48:42,170the chat rooms here they're all quite

102500:48:40,820 --> 00:48:44,539impressed with your storytelling

102600:48:42,170 --> 00:48:46,409abilities you've captivated them or

102700:48:44,539 --> 00:48:49,308evaded those mr. snap

102800:48:46,409 --> 00:48:51,328thank you thank you well why don't I

102900:48:49,309 --> 00:48:54,660continue telling it after the break

103000:48:51,329 --> 00:48:59,519because after the break I can tell the

1031


00:48:54,659 --> 00:49:01,949the story of this evil being that they

103200:48:59,518 --> 00:49:05,149came into contact with and what happened

103300:49:01,949 --> 00:49:09,199to them after it happened

103400:49:05,150 --> 00:49:12,989they made contact with this being

103500:49:09,199 --> 00:49:14,969absolutely I'm just amazed that you're

103600:49:12,989 --> 00:49:16,858one of the rare guests that we have had

103700:49:14,969 --> 00:49:24,929on this show that isn't actually

103800:49:16,858 --> 00:49:26,880watching the clock yes Don spaced out

103900:49:24,929 --> 00:49:31,349radio we'll be right back right after

104000:49:26,880 --> 00:49:33,358this looking for news beyond the

104100:49:31,349 --> 00:49:36,419mainstream news head spaced-out

104200:49:33,358 --> 00:49:38,880radio.com and check out the SOR space

104300:49:36,418 --> 00:49:41,248wire this is spaced out radios Eric

104400:49:38,880 --> 00:49:44,009Markham news director for the SOR space

1045


00:49:41,248 --> 00:49:45,958wire daily I will bring you the drinking

104600:49:44,009 --> 00:49:48,409stories outlandish reports and what's

104700:49:45,958 --> 00:49:51,078going on around the world UFO sightings

104800:49:48,409 --> 00:49:54,118paranormal activity conspiracies

104900:49:51,079 --> 00:49:59,880alternative hell and so much more and if

105000:49:54,119 --> 00:50:01,559you have news email news radio comm hi

105100:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,539there I'm butch wachowski lead

105200:50:01,559 --> 00:50:05,189investigator with you for cop on the

105300:50:03,539 --> 00:50:07,169final Monday of every month you can

105400:50:05,188 --> 00:50:09,568listen to me and host Dave Scott once

105500:50:07,168 --> 00:50:11,009based out radio strange days we're going

105600:50:09,568 --> 00:50:12,208to get to the heart of the matter when

105700:50:11,009 --> 00:50:14,159it comes to what's happening out there

105800:50:12,208 --> 00:50:16,678people are seeing and experiencing


105900:50:14,159 --> 00:50:18,599things from ET contact the Bigfoot and I

106000:50:16,679 --> 00:50:20,459want to hear about it your experiences

106100:50:18,599 --> 00:50:23,068or what we investigators need to help

106200:50:20,458 --> 00:50:25,279solve these unknown mysteries so tune in

106300:50:23,068 --> 00:50:29,818at spaced out radio calm

106400:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,819[Music]

106500:50:30,018 --> 00:50:33,838greetings and salutations space

106600:50:32,309 --> 00:50:38,670travelers from The Chronicles of the

106700:50:33,838 --> 00:50:42,808unknown team what is copies of your door

106800:50:38,670 --> 00:50:44,608I keep hearing about this thing it's a

106900:50:42,809 --> 00:50:46,319new paranormal reality TV show based

107000:50:44,608 --> 00:50:49,348right here in beautiful British Columbia

107100:50:46,318 --> 00:50:51,538Canada follow our team as we uncover

107200:50:49,349 --> 00:50:54,479claims of activity on the caribou Gold


107300:50:51,539 --> 00:50:56,609Rush trail you can also follow us here

107400:50:54,478 --> 00:50:58,048every third Monday where two members of

107500:50:56,608 --> 00:50:59,848our team will be available to answer

107600:50:58,048 --> 00:51:01,559your questions have you ever wondered

107700:50:59,849 --> 00:51:02,700about those weird and strange creatures

107800:51:01,559 --> 00:51:05,190people have reported throughout history

107900:51:02,699 --> 00:51:06,868you wonder if those stories are real me

108000:51:05,190 --> 00:51:10,048too and that's why I started cryptokey a

108100:51:06,869 --> 00:51:11,910dot us haze this is Rob Murphy crypto

108200:51:10,048 --> 00:51:13,739historians join me once a month on

108300:51:11,909 --> 00:51:15,028spaced out radio with Dave Scott where

108400:51:13,739 --> 00:51:17,460we will get into the odd and bizarre

108500:51:15,028 --> 00:51:19,079reports from the Dover demon to hairy

108600:51:17,460 --> 00:51:21,059


hominids and everything in between I

108700:51:19,079 --> 00:51:24,470will break down what people like you and

108800:51:21,059 --> 00:51:27,930me are seeing at spaced-out radio.com

108900:51:24,469 --> 00:51:28,679visit purple plates calm today for over

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110600:52:03,420 --> 00:52:08,940miracle strange creatures lurking in the

110700:52:06,719 --> 00:52:11,639night the sounds of wood knocking in the

110800:52:08,940 --> 00:52:13,858forest awed happenings right out of a

110900:52:11,639 --> 00:52:16,469fictional world these are the reports I

111000:52:13,858 --> 00:52:18,690love hi there this is author Ronald

111100:52:16,469 --> 00:52:20,349Murphy and I would love it if he joined

111200:52:18,690 --> 00:52:22,989me and spaced out radio

111300:52:20,349 --> 00:52:25,119Scot second Wednesday of every month on

111400:52:22,989 --> 00:52:28,170our journey into the unknown land of


111500:52:25,119 --> 00:52:31,298cryptozoology at spaced-out radio.com

111600:52:28,170 --> 00:52:33,130from walkman to fog now everything in

111700:52:31,298 --> 00:52:36,460between hey they don't call me the

111800:52:33,130 --> 00:52:38,650crypto guru for nothing are you

111900:52:36,460 --> 00:52:42,068interested in advertising on spaced-out

112000:52:38,650 --> 00:52:43,298radio head to our website at spaced-out

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112200:52:43,298 --> 00:52:49,150and click on our advertising tab there

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112800:52:59,009 --> 00:53:05,710visit spaced-out radio.com for more


112900:53:02,048 --> 00:53:07,960details from british columbia to

113000:53:05,710 --> 00:53:10,239northern california pacific north weird

113100:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,920has Cascadia covered check out our

113200:53:10,239 --> 00:53:15,039feature video that spaced-out radio.com

113300:53:11,920 --> 00:53:17,079where i Vincennes Anza and my super

113400:53:15,039 --> 00:53:18,789sleuth partner Alexandra Sullivan

113500:53:17,079 --> 00:53:20,289tracked down the weird and strange

113600:53:18,789 --> 00:53:23,289stories from around the Pacific

113700:53:20,289 --> 00:53:24,910Northwest from Bigfoot to Mel's hole and

113800:53:23,289 --> 00:53:27,849everything in between

113900:53:24,909 --> 00:53:30,009this is what makes life exciting so why

114000:53:27,849 --> 00:53:32,798report to normal can read the report the

114100:53:30,009 --> 00:53:35,429Pacific North weird right here at spaced

114200:53:32,798 --> 00:53:35,429out radio


114300:53:49,900 --> 00:53:53,599[Music]

114400:53:51,639 --> 00:53:56,319have you ever had an extraterrestrial

114500:53:53,599 --> 00:53:58,279experience one you just couldn't explain

114600:53:56,320 --> 00:54:01,730well maybe I can help

114700:53:58,280 --> 00:54:03,560hello I am Samantha mullet on the second

114800:54:01,730 --> 00:54:05,719Tuesday of each month I will join Dave

114900:54:03,559 --> 00:54:08,420Scott on Spaceship radio to bring a

115000:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,919human aspect to eg contact it's

115100:54:08,420 --> 00:54:11,960something I have lived with my entire

115200:54:09,920 --> 00:54:15,289life and I'd love to help you understand

115300:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,090let's share our experiences the et

115400:54:15,289 --> 00:54:20,300experience the second Tuesday of each

115500:54:17,090 --> 00:54:22,670month only on spaced-out radio hi there

115600:54:20,300 --> 00:54:25,070


this is Joleen with revealin reiki and

115700:54:22,670 --> 00:54:26,630readings and i want you to relax let me

115800:54:25,070 --> 00:54:28,940help you chill out and get in touch with

115900:54:26,630 --> 00:54:30,950your body mind and soul in this busy

116000:54:28,940 --> 00:54:33,170world sometimes we need to let go and

116100:54:30,949 --> 00:54:36,949this is where I can help visit my

116200:54:33,170 --> 00:54:39,980website rivulet and our wix.com forward

116300:54:36,949 --> 00:54:42,980slash reveal at our end our every

116400:54:39,980 --> 00:54:46,400Saturday and Sunday night as Dave Scott

116500:54:42,980 --> 00:54:47,990wanders aimlessly in the wilderness you

116600:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,240can come hang out with me James Tyson

116700:54:47,989 --> 00:54:52,339and space dog weekend we're starting at

116800:54:50,239 --> 00:54:54,3799 p.m. Pacific midnight Eastern I'll


116900:54:52,340 --> 00:54:56,269take you along as we talk with some of

117000:54:54,380 --> 00:54:59,210the best experts in their fields

117100:54:56,269 --> 00:55:01,610spaced-out radio.com is the place to

117200:54:59,210 --> 00:55:02,059find us so sit down relax put your feet

117300:55:01,610 --> 00:55:04,099up

117400:55:02,059 --> 00:55:06,799enjoy the topics like the paranormal

117500:55:04,099 --> 00:55:09,650supernatural intuitiveness and so much

117600:55:06,800 --> 00:55:12,080more hope to see you there hi there this

117700:55:09,650 --> 00:55:13,610is your psychic medium Joanna and I

117800:55:12,079 --> 00:55:16,969would love it if you would join us every

117900:55:13,610 --> 00:55:18,230other Sunday on space that weekend with

118000:55:16,969 --> 00:55:19,669host James Tyson

118100:55:18,230 --> 00:55:21,789we'll bring your personal psychic

118200:55:19,670 --> 00:55:25,130


messages on two mediums and a large

118300:55:21,789 --> 00:55:26,869questions about love life career changes

118400:55:25,130 --> 00:55:30,110you will love it if you would come and

118500:55:26,869 --> 00:55:31,199join us live call-in and listen and for

118600:55:30,110 --> 00:55:33,660geeks

118700:55:31,199 --> 00:55:37,109allow us to open the doors to your other

118800:55:33,659 --> 00:55:39,389side two mediums in a large herd only on

118900:55:37,110 --> 00:55:42,120space that weekend at spaced-out

119000:55:39,389 --> 00:55:43,889radio.com would you like to become one

119100:55:42,119 --> 00:55:45,599of our space travelers all you have to

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1196


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119900:55:59,429 --> 00:56:05,649[Music]

120000:56:03,039 --> 00:56:07,509do you have a topic or a guest that

120100:56:05,650 --> 00:56:09,760you'd like to hear on spaced-out radio

120200:56:07,510 --> 00:56:12,310let us know it spaced-out radio.com

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120800:56:29,860 --> 00:56:34,150Cardwell has sent the password he does

120900:56:32,079 --> 00:56:37,809


it every night make sure you use it

121000:56:34,150 --> 00:56:40,809wisely repugnance is the password for

121100:56:37,809 --> 00:56:42,699tonight repugnance he actually put one

121200:56:40,809 --> 00:56:46,029on there I could pronounce I'm always

121300:56:42,699 --> 00:56:48,579always privileged when I don't butcher

121400:56:46,030 --> 00:56:50,380the password for the night remember if

121500:56:48,579 --> 00:56:52,210you're listening in on revolution radio

121600:56:50,380 --> 00:56:55,599read the double our machine is a

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121800:56:55,599 --> 00:57:00,969valued listener do us a favor if you can

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123400:57:31,840 --> 00:57:37,059check out the bumblefoot banner our

123500:57:33,659 --> 00:57:39,159resident guitar god Ron bumblefoot Thal

123600:57:37,059 --> 00:57:41,860formerly of Guns and Roses takes care of

123700:57:39,159 --> 00:57:44,529


all of spaced-out radios music can read

123800:57:41,860 --> 00:57:46,500the SOR space wire and so much more

123900:57:44,530 --> 00:57:48,490everything it's based out radio.com

124000:57:46,500 --> 00:57:50,530tonight we are talking with author

124100:57:48,489 --> 00:57:53,789Robert Schneck we are talking to buy by

124200:57:50,530 --> 00:57:56,170a man and other strange and intriguing

124300:57:53,789 --> 00:57:58,809folklore stories that have come around

124400:57:56,170 --> 00:58:00,940and there is truth in a lot of these we

124500:57:58,809 --> 00:58:04,019bring mister Schneck back to spaced out

124600:58:00,940 --> 00:58:06,070radio Robert welcome back thank you

124700:58:04,019 --> 00:58:08,050right before the break you were telling

124800:58:06,070 --> 00:58:10,539us an intriguing story of how the by by

124900:58:08,050 --> 00:58:14,140man came into play I would love it if

125000:58:10,539 --> 00:58:16,750you can continue on ok so where I left

1251


00:58:14,139 --> 00:58:19,539you off was three college students who

125200:58:16,750 --> 00:58:23,230were experimenting with the Ouija board

125300:58:19,539 --> 00:58:26,590were trying to get in contact with a

125400:58:23,230 --> 00:58:28,510living being who was very evil and that

125500:58:26,590 --> 00:58:31,090the Ouija board didn't want them to talk

125600:58:28,510 --> 00:58:34,960to but the spirit of the board finally

125700:58:31,090 --> 00:58:38,650relented and over a couple of weeks

125800:58:34,960 --> 00:58:42,250probably certainly over a number of we G

125900:58:38,650 --> 00:58:46,180board seances they finally got the story

126000:58:42,250 --> 00:58:47,860of this being that the spirit of the

126100:58:46,179 --> 00:58:50,440board would not put them into direct

126200:58:47,860 --> 00:58:55,450contact with but they finally got the

126300:58:50,440 --> 00:59:01,000story of this person and the story went

126400:58:55,449 --> 00:59:07,989like this that this being who was called

1265


00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:13,300the bye-bye man was born sometime in the

126600:59:07,989 --> 00:59:16,3891920s in Louisiana he was born an albino

126700:59:13,300 --> 00:59:18,670we never know whether he was racially

126800:59:16,389 --> 00:59:22,299black or white but he was know by you

126900:59:18,670 --> 00:59:25,389know so he had very light skin and he

127000:59:22,300 --> 00:59:27,610was blind and his parents gave him up

127100:59:25,389 --> 00:59:30,759whoever his parents were we never know

127200:59:27,610 --> 00:59:36,010but they gave him up and sent him to

127300:59:30,760 --> 00:59:38,620some kind of an orphanage now he was not

127400:59:36,010 --> 00:59:40,600happy at this orphanage she was blind he

127500:59:38,619 --> 00:59:44,589was an albino children were probably

127600:59:40,599 --> 00:59:48,190cruel to him that's just a guess based

127700:59:44,590 --> 00:59:51,190on how children act and he was always

127800:59:48,190 --> 00:59:53,619running away but how far can a blind


127900:59:51,190 --> 00:59:55,539albino kid get so they would always

128000:59:53,619 --> 00:59:57,719catch him and bring him back and he was

128100:59:55,539 --> 01:00:00,809unhappy there and as he got older

128200:59:57,719 --> 01:00:03,339finally he reached adolescence and

128301:00:00,809 --> 01:00:06,909according to the story that he would

128401:00:03,340 --> 01:00:08,380that they that they were told he picked

128501:00:06,909 --> 01:00:11,589that one day he picked up a pair of

128601:00:08,380 --> 01:00:14,410scissors and he attacked and mutilated

128701:00:11,590 --> 01:00:17,970one of the nurses she lived but she was

128801:00:14,409 --> 01:00:22,259terribly damaged but he attacked her and

128901:00:17,969 --> 01:00:25,929escaped from the orphanage for good and

129001:00:22,260 --> 01:00:29,080vanished they don't know what happened

129101:00:25,929 --> 01:00:30,190to him but they do know that mutilated

1292


01:00:29,079 --> 01:00:32,889bodies began

129301:00:30,190 --> 01:00:38,320to turn up by the sides of railroad

129401:00:32,889 --> 01:00:41,440tracks and it seems that something

129501:00:38,320 --> 01:00:44,500happened with this boy that became the

129601:00:41,440 --> 01:00:49,300bye-bye man maybe it involved buddhu

129701:00:44,500 --> 01:00:51,670because it no it is it was Louisiana it

129801:00:49,300 --> 01:00:55,300was near New Orleans it was actually in

129901:00:51,670 --> 01:00:58,720a town called Algiers which turned out

130001:00:55,300 --> 01:01:00,850to be a one of the districts of New

130101:00:58,719 --> 01:01:02,500Orleans I don't think the people the I

130201:01:00,849 --> 01:01:05,559don't think the three college students

130301:01:02,500 --> 01:01:07,389who were who were writing the story down

130401:01:05,559 --> 01:01:09,880knew that Algiers was a part of New

130501:01:07,389 --> 01:01:13,719Orleans but it is they think apparently

1306


01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:16,360thought it was a small town but anyway

130701:01:13,719 --> 01:01:18,639that's where the orphanage was but but

130801:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,920once again the these bodies mutilated

130901:01:18,639 --> 01:01:23,199bodies began turning up by the railroad

131001:01:20,920 --> 01:01:26,619tracks and it seems that this boy had

131101:01:23,199 --> 01:01:31,480become involved in black magic and what

131201:01:26,619 --> 01:01:36,480he was doing was he had used whatever

131301:01:31,480 --> 01:01:40,990power it was that he had acquired to

131401:01:36,480 --> 01:01:44,320build a little monster and he was

131501:01:40,989 --> 01:01:47,579probably taking the eyes and the tongues

131601:01:44,320 --> 01:01:51,130from people that he encountered and

131701:01:47,579 --> 01:01:55,750sewing them together into this monster

131801:01:51,130 --> 01:02:00,940that somehow was brought to life and it

131901:01:55,750 --> 01:02:04,599acted as his eyes it helped him find

1320


01:02:00,940 --> 01:02:08,500other people and what he would do is

132101:02:04,599 --> 01:02:10,150this well let me I'll pray you I'll give

132201:02:08,500 --> 01:02:10,599you a quick picture of what he looked

132301:02:10,150 --> 01:02:13,510like

132401:02:10,599 --> 01:02:15,880according to the story they were told he

132501:02:13,510 --> 01:02:18,460was of course an albino so he had white

132601:02:15,880 --> 01:02:21,610skin and he had he was one of those

132701:02:18,460 --> 01:02:24,070Ivana's with pink eyes so he had a white

132801:02:21,610 --> 01:02:26,800skin pink eyes he would always wear dark

132901:02:24,070 --> 01:02:30,250glasses that were painted black on the

133001:02:26,800 --> 01:02:32,680inside he had long white hair he wore a

133101:02:30,250 --> 01:02:35,619broad brimmed hat and a shirt something

133201:02:32,679 --> 01:02:38,889like pea coat he would have been dressed

133301:02:35,619 --> 01:02:41,799a bit like a hobo and he carried a sack


133401:02:38,889 --> 01:02:42,190that had bloodstains on the bottom and

133501:02:41,800 --> 01:02:46,170this

133601:02:42,190 --> 01:02:50,170was called the sack or bag of gore and

133701:02:46,170 --> 01:02:54,220when someone heard the name the bye-bye

133801:02:50,170 --> 01:02:56,680man or the name of his monster the

133901:02:54,219 --> 01:02:59,349monster he made from pieces and remains

134001:02:56,679 --> 01:03:03,969of his victims which was called gloom

134101:02:59,349 --> 01:03:08,170singer it would turn that person into a

134201:03:03,969 --> 01:03:12,669psychic beacon so that for as long as

134301:03:08,170 --> 01:03:14,740they thought of the name by by man or

134401:03:12,670 --> 01:03:17,590gloom singer but as long as they thought

134501:03:14,739 --> 01:03:20,919of the name by by man it would send out

134601:03:17,590 --> 01:03:23,940a kind of a signal to him and he would

134701:03:20,920 --> 01:03:28,869begin to move towards the person


134801:03:23,940 --> 01:03:31,960thinking of his name so he would begin

134901:03:28,869 --> 01:03:34,839to ride the rails he always traveled by

135001:03:31,960 --> 01:03:38,110train like again like a hobo he would

135101:03:34,840 --> 01:03:40,840ride the rails and when he got close

135201:03:38,110 --> 01:03:43,660enough to the to the person who kept

135301:03:40,840 --> 01:03:46,090thinking of his name then gloom singer

135401:03:43,659 --> 01:03:47,859did its job and what gloom singer would

135501:03:46,090 --> 01:03:51,010do was I guess it would pull itself

135601:03:47,860 --> 01:03:55,269along on those tongues and use all of

135701:03:51,010 --> 01:03:57,550those eyes and it would see the victim

135801:03:55,269 --> 01:04:02,860and then it would let out a sharp

135901:03:57,550 --> 01:04:06,400whistle and that whistle would help the

136001:04:02,860 --> 01:04:08,680bye-bye man close in on the victim so it

136101:04:06,400 --> 01:04:10,660acted a little bit like a pointer a


136201:04:08,679 --> 01:04:12,609pointer dog it would point out the

136301:04:10,659 --> 01:04:16,480victim and then the bye-bye man would go

136401:04:12,610 --> 01:04:19,240in for the kill and take the tongue and

136501:04:16,480 --> 01:04:22,269the eyes and put them in his into his

136601:04:19,239 --> 01:04:25,719bag of gore presumably he used the

136701:04:22,269 --> 01:04:28,420pieces inside the bag of gore to freshen

136801:04:25,719 --> 01:04:30,039up gloom singer when the pieces when the

136901:04:28,420 --> 01:04:32,430pieces that were so dim would begin to

137001:04:30,039 --> 01:04:37,059decompose well

137101:04:32,429 --> 01:04:38,440they then asked the the the three who

137201:04:37,059 --> 01:04:42,670were doing the experiment with the Ouija

137301:04:38,440 --> 01:04:45,369board they asked if the if the Ouija

137401:04:42,670 --> 01:04:47,950board if the by by man was aware of them

137501:04:45,369 --> 01:04:51,039and the answer was yes he is and he's

137601:04:47,949 --> 01:04:52,929moving towards you now they were living

137701:04:51,039 --> 01:04:54,179in a place called Sun Prairie which is

137801:04:52,929 --> 01:04:57,559outside Madison

137901:04:54,179 --> 01:05:01,169and accorded side Madison Wisconsin and

138001:04:57,559 --> 01:05:03,809according to the spirit of the board the

138101:05:01,170 --> 01:05:07,200bye-bye man had already reached Chicago

138201:05:03,809 --> 01:05:10,860and was moving towards them well this

138301:05:07,199 --> 01:05:13,859did it for Katherine she had no interest

138401:05:10,860 --> 01:05:17,390in pursuing this any longer it terrified

138501:05:13,860 --> 01:05:21,180her she wanted nothing to do with it and

138601:05:17,389 --> 01:05:25,440since Jonathan and Eli could not get the

138701:05:21,179 --> 01:05:29,159Ouija board to work on their own that

138801:05:25,440 --> 01:05:31,950more or less put an end to the seances


138901:05:29,159 --> 01:05:34,019but it didn't put an end to the fact

139001:05:31,949 --> 01:05:37,949that they were thinking about the

139101:05:34,019 --> 01:05:41,070bye-bye man and gloom singer well it

139201:05:37,949 --> 01:05:42,719turned out that over the next room oh

139301:05:41,070 --> 01:05:45,019gosh I don't know how long it went on I

139401:05:42,719 --> 01:05:49,439guess it must have been a while because

139501:05:45,019 --> 01:05:52,320it was getting closer to summer and they

139601:05:49,440 --> 01:05:55,740had started the they had started the

139701:05:52,320 --> 01:05:57,980seances in the dead of winter so they're

139801:05:55,739 --> 01:06:00,779getting close to summer now and

139901:05:57,980 --> 01:06:03,920Katherine's sleep is very disturbed

140001:06:00,780 --> 01:06:07,410she keeps waking up having nightmares

140101:06:03,920 --> 01:06:11,490having panic attacks feeling

140201:06:07,409 --> 01:06:13,079


uncomfortable and depressed and Eli

140301:06:11,489 --> 01:06:14,879meanwhile is having no trouble at all

140401:06:13,079 --> 01:06:19,319and he doesn't quite know what's

140501:06:14,880 --> 01:06:24,390bothering her so one of the things he

140601:06:19,320 --> 01:06:28,350decides to do is to take her to his home

140701:06:24,389 --> 01:06:31,469town which is Wausau Wisconsin on the

140801:06:28,349 --> 01:06:34,259Wisconsin River it's not a small town

140901:06:31,469 --> 01:06:36,359it's a call a small city a small city on

141001:06:34,260 --> 01:06:37,740the Wisconsin River it's a nice it's a

141101:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,170nice enough little town I've been there

141201:06:37,739 --> 01:06:41,939and he was going to take her to a

141301:06:40,170 --> 01:06:45,150concert cheer her up

141401:06:41,940 --> 01:06:48,150have a good time so they spent the

141501:06:45,150 --> 01:06:49,559afternoon walking around Wausau and he

1416


01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:51,960was going to show her the sights and one

141701:06:49,559 --> 01:06:55,380of the sights in Wausau is a place

141801:06:51,960 --> 01:06:57,210called Barker Stewart Island which is an

141901:06:55,380 --> 01:07:01,890island in the middle of the Wisconsin

142001:06:57,210 --> 01:07:05,550River the the nickname of Barker Stewart

142101:07:01,889 --> 01:07:06,960Island is body island and it was called

142201:07:05,550 --> 01:07:09,500body island

142301:07:06,960 --> 01:07:12,869cause Lumberjacks that died upstream

142401:07:09,500 --> 01:07:14,909would sometimes that way they would

142501:07:12,869 --> 01:07:17,309drown in the Wisconsin River and their

142601:07:14,909 --> 01:07:21,118bodies would sometimes turn up on Barker

142701:07:17,309 --> 01:07:23,009Stewart Island so again they're there

142801:07:21,119 --> 01:07:24,900they're hanging around this it's a

142901:07:23,010 --> 01:07:27,300pretty island it is a nice Island and

1430


01:07:24,900 --> 01:07:30,420there's a railroad bridge leading from

143101:07:27,300 --> 01:07:33,869the edge of the shore to the island

143201:07:30,420 --> 01:07:35,430itself now they were hanging around

143301:07:33,869 --> 01:07:38,329there because it's a pretty area it's a

143401:07:35,429 --> 01:07:41,730nature little little Nature Reserve and

143501:07:38,329 --> 01:07:43,139Eli went down to the to the river itself

143601:07:41,730 --> 01:07:44,519he said he saw he thought he saw a

143701:07:43,139 --> 01:07:47,879turtle down there so he went down to

143801:07:44,519 --> 01:07:50,849look at it and that left Katherine alone

143901:07:47,880 --> 01:07:53,130up on the railroad bridge so here she is

144001:07:50,849 --> 01:07:55,740on this bridge leading to body island

144101:07:53,130 --> 01:07:57,390and she's back it's just looking maybe

144201:07:55,739 --> 01:07:59,819she's looking at what Eli is doing or

144301:07:57,389 --> 01:08:02,940something and she begins to hear a

1444


01:07:59,820 --> 01:08:04,619whistle now hearing the whistle when

144501:08:02,940 --> 01:08:05,940you're on a railroad bridge is not too

144601:08:04,619 --> 01:08:08,640surprising I mean these are railroad

144701:08:05,940 --> 01:08:10,349tracks Oh whistle is not you know you

144801:08:08,639 --> 01:08:12,210expect to hear a train whistle now and

144901:08:10,349 --> 01:08:15,059again but she said this wasn't a train

145001:08:12,210 --> 01:08:19,230whistle and the whistle got louder and

145101:08:15,059 --> 01:08:23,789louder and she began to panic because

145201:08:19,229 --> 01:08:27,329she remembered the story and that did it

145301:08:23,789 --> 01:08:29,219for her she became utterly terrified she

145401:08:27,329 --> 01:08:31,559went running off the bridge

145501:08:29,219 --> 01:08:34,350Eli didn't know what was going on but he

145601:08:31,560 --> 01:08:37,410went running after her she spent the

145701:08:34,350 --> 01:08:41,940rest of the day terrified having panic

145801:08:37,409 --> 01:08:44,159


attacks and she was probably so

145901:08:41,939 --> 01:08:48,179completely through with all of this that

146001:08:44,159 --> 01:08:51,149they stopped dating soon after now this

146101:08:48,180 --> 01:08:53,609was not the only thing that happened Eli

146201:08:51,149 --> 01:08:56,250then went to go visit his friend

146301:08:53,609 --> 01:08:57,630Jonathan who was still in school so he

146401:08:56,250 --> 01:08:59,850went to go see him and apparently

146501:08:57,630 --> 01:09:03,869Jonathan had been having problems very

146601:08:59,850 --> 01:09:06,088similar to Katherine's he was having

146701:09:03,869 --> 01:09:08,278trouble sleeping he was having

146801:09:06,088 --> 01:09:11,460nightmares he was having trouble getting

146901:09:08,279 --> 01:09:15,569through the night and he then he told he

147001:09:11,460 --> 01:09:17,759apparently also looked very tired and he

147101:09:15,569 --> 01:09:20,789


explained to Eli one of the reasons that

147201:09:17,759 --> 01:09:24,449he looked so tired he had been having

147301:09:20,789 --> 01:09:26,539sleeping and he was sitting in bed just

147401:09:24,449 --> 01:09:32,539drawing or something to pass the time

147501:09:26,539 --> 01:09:37,560when it he heard a knock on the door you

147601:09:32,539 --> 01:09:39,989know he was living in a rooming house on

147701:09:37,560 --> 01:09:42,359the 3rd and living in the 3rd floor in

147801:09:39,989 --> 01:09:43,949an attic bedroom and there was a light

147901:09:42,359 --> 01:09:47,990outside in the hallway and he could see

148001:09:43,949 --> 01:09:50,519that there were the shadows of feet

148101:09:47,989 --> 01:09:53,608through that crack of light under the

148201:09:50,520 --> 01:09:55,410door and he heard Katherine's voice

148301:09:53,609 --> 01:09:57,510saying hey Jonathan

148401:09:55,409 --> 01:10:00,210


it's morning come on let's go get

148501:09:57,510 --> 01:10:04,079breakfast so he gets up sort of groggy

148601:10:00,210 --> 01:10:06,750and he started starting to throw on some

148701:10:04,079 --> 01:10:09,210clothes when he looks out the window and

148801:10:06,750 --> 01:10:12,779he sees no it's pitch black outside and

148901:10:09,210 --> 01:10:14,970he checks the clock it's around 3:00 or

149001:10:12,779 --> 01:10:18,1494:00 in the morning so it's not morning

149101:10:14,970 --> 01:10:20,039it's the dead of night just like it was

149201:10:18,149 --> 01:10:24,109the dead of winter earlier but it's the

149301:10:20,039 --> 01:10:26,220dead of night and Catherine's voice

149401:10:24,109 --> 01:10:28,589continues in the hallway and the

149501:10:26,220 --> 01:10:31,500knocking on the door continues with her

149601:10:28,590 --> 01:10:34,619saying come on Jonathan let's go get

149701:10:31,500 --> 01:10:39,960breakfast let's go we're here we're here

1498


01:10:34,619 --> 01:10:43,579to pick you up and that made him so

149901:10:39,960 --> 01:10:46,890terrified that he slid to the ground and

150001:10:43,579 --> 01:10:48,989lay there on the floor looking at those

150101:10:46,890 --> 01:10:51,420two shadows of feet in the crack of

150201:10:48,989 --> 01:10:53,880light under the door until they moved

150301:10:51,420 --> 01:10:55,770away in inch from the hall and the

150401:10:53,880 --> 01:10:57,300knocking stopped and he spent the rest

150501:10:55,770 --> 01:11:01,560of the night there on the floor

150601:10:57,300 --> 01:11:04,619absolutely terrified now that roughly is

150701:11:01,560 --> 01:11:07,170the story of the bye-bye man but the

150801:11:04,619 --> 01:11:11,130story itself goes a little goes on a

150901:11:07,170 --> 01:11:13,739little further now Catherine again

151001:11:11,130 --> 01:11:15,840wanted nothing more to do with this she

151101:11:13,739 --> 01:11:18,059didn't she

1512


01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:20,159well I'll get to what what happened

151301:11:18,060 --> 01:11:22,980later on but again she wanted nothing

151401:11:20,159 --> 01:11:24,930more to do with this but Eli loved the

151501:11:22,979 --> 01:11:28,859story he fact was fascinated it

151601:11:24,930 --> 01:11:32,159fascinated him so he kind of made a few

151701:11:28,859 --> 01:11:33,779changes and it became his Devil's night

151801:11:32,159 --> 01:11:36,359story

151901:11:33,779 --> 01:11:38,609he must have told this story to hundreds

152001:11:36,359 --> 01:11:40,259of people before I hurting and I

152101:11:38,609 --> 01:11:43,649attended one of these parties and again

152201:11:40,260 --> 01:11:47,780I heard it for the first time now I have

152301:11:43,649 --> 01:11:50,069heard a lot of stories doing what I do

152401:11:47,779 --> 01:11:52,590people tend to tell me the story is

152501:11:50,069 --> 01:11:56,099about ghosts and monsters and I have


152601:11:52,590 --> 01:11:57,690heard stories about I remember I was at

152701:11:56,099 --> 01:12:00,809the barbers once in the ax bar the

152801:11:57,689 --> 01:12:02,368barber was from Egypt and he told me

152901:12:00,809 --> 01:12:03,929after he asked me what I did and I told

153001:12:02,368 --> 01:12:07,859him I collect these kinds of stories and

153101:12:03,929 --> 01:12:10,020he told me about seeing the the he

153201:12:07,859 --> 01:12:13,348seeing an evil spirit in the form of a

153301:12:10,020 --> 01:12:16,050hoofed demon standing on the grave of

153401:12:13,349 --> 01:12:18,150deserters who had been shot when he was

153501:12:16,050 --> 01:12:20,520stay when he was serving in the Egyptian

153601:12:18,149 --> 01:12:24,658army I've had people tell me stories

153701:12:20,520 --> 01:12:27,480about vampires Bigfoot ghosts lots of

153801:12:24,658 --> 01:12:29,788ghost stories one person who claimed

153901:12:27,479 --> 01:12:32,428


that a light bulb in the in the attic

154001:12:29,788 --> 01:12:35,488would answer questions it would it would

154101:12:32,429 --> 01:12:40,170flick off and on giving yes or no

154201:12:35,488 --> 01:12:42,479replies to to gret to questions but I

154301:12:40,170 --> 01:12:44,489have never heard a story that got under

154401:12:42,479 --> 01:12:48,928my skin the way the story of the Bible

154501:12:44,488 --> 01:12:51,479man did in fact the morning the morning

154601:12:48,929 --> 01:12:53,219after it I was lying in bed looking at

154701:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,899that crack of light under my door and

154801:12:53,219 --> 01:12:56,969wondering if I was going to be seeing

154901:12:54,899 --> 01:13:01,589two shadows under it

155001:12:56,969 --> 01:13:04,649so what I finally did was I began to

155101:13:01,590 --> 01:13:08,250write it up and when it came time when I

155201:13:04,649 --> 01:13:11,308wrote my first book I decided to include

155301:13:08,250 --> 01:13:14,399


it I came very close to not including it

155401:13:11,309 --> 01:13:17,489because most of what I write about is

155501:13:14,399 --> 01:13:19,259strange historical stories but this

155601:13:17,488 --> 01:13:22,558story was just so intriguing

155701:13:19,260 --> 01:13:24,960and it had its Ouija board history

155801:13:22,559 --> 01:13:28,199behind it so I felt that I could include

155901:13:24,960 --> 01:13:30,989it and I looked into the background of

156001:13:28,198 --> 01:13:32,969it and I did I did research you know due

156101:13:30,988 --> 01:13:35,848diligence and all that to see if there

156201:13:32,969 --> 01:13:38,760was any truth to the story nothing I

156301:13:35,849 --> 01:13:41,909could find but the story itself was so

156401:13:38,760 --> 01:13:45,239effective and had such an effect it had

156501:13:41,908 --> 01:13:46,299made such an impression that I began

156601:13:45,238 --> 01:13:47,769telling it when

156701:13:46,300 --> 01:13:49,809


when the book came out I began telling

156801:13:47,770 --> 01:13:53,550it on the radio like I just did tonight

156901:13:49,809 --> 01:13:56,559and it was somebody hearing this the

157001:13:53,550 --> 01:13:58,599broadcast of it in California that liked

157101:13:56,559 --> 01:14:01,539it so much that the that's how the whole

157201:13:58,599 --> 01:14:03,069movie thing got started and you know

157301:14:01,539 --> 01:14:05,948from there the book has since been

157401:14:03,069 --> 01:14:09,479re-released recently it's it's now you

157501:14:05,948 --> 01:14:13,269can its re-released as the by by man and

157601:14:09,479 --> 01:14:16,448it's available as a book an audio book

157701:14:13,270 --> 01:14:17,980with Scott brick narrating it and so

157801:14:16,448 --> 01:14:20,408there's a new edition of it coming out

157901:14:17,979 --> 01:14:23,919and there's a movie coming out in on

158001:14:20,408 --> 01:14:25,988December 9th so that is so far that is


158101:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,359the story of the bye bye man and I

158201:14:25,988 --> 01:14:30,819recently got somebody who wants my help

158301:14:28,359 --> 01:14:32,198in finding him guys I got an email from

158401:14:30,819 --> 01:14:33,609somebody who wants my help in finding

158501:14:32,198 --> 01:14:35,919him but I don't want to go looking for

158601:14:33,609 --> 01:14:38,769him and as I said that's more or less

158701:14:35,920 --> 01:14:41,050the story of the bye bye men do you

158801:14:38,770 --> 01:14:43,570believe that this creature or whatever

158901:14:41,050 --> 01:14:45,219it is actually exists or do you believe

159001:14:43,569 --> 01:14:47,948that this is just spirit on the other

159101:14:45,219 --> 01:14:50,408side of the Ouija board playing havoc

159201:14:47,948 --> 01:14:52,598with someone because let's face it the

159301:14:50,408 --> 01:14:54,969Ouija board does have that power to do

159401:14:52,599 --> 01:14:58,569that well let's look at some


159501:14:54,969 --> 01:15:02,578possibilities if you believe that it is

159601:14:58,569 --> 01:15:05,500a spirit involved and yes maybe it was a

159701:15:02,578 --> 01:15:06,880maybe it was a mischievous spirit that

159801:15:05,500 --> 01:15:10,479thought it would have some fun and scare

159901:15:06,880 --> 01:15:13,179these people maybe it was something

160001:15:10,479 --> 01:15:17,589actually malevolent that got a thrill

160101:15:13,179 --> 01:15:20,618out of doing that that that if you want

160201:15:17,590 --> 01:15:23,590to if you want to start speculating

160301:15:20,618 --> 01:15:26,469maybe it was an evil spirit that decided

160401:15:23,590 --> 01:15:28,929that if people became aware of its name

160501:15:26,469 --> 01:15:31,090it could acquire some kind of reality in

160601:15:28,929 --> 01:15:33,550this world and then you get into

160701:15:31,090 --> 01:15:37,210something like the Phillip experiment

160801:15:33,550 --> 01:15:38,230


which I don't know if listeners are

160901:15:37,210 --> 01:15:40,480familiar with it but the Phillip

161001:15:38,229 --> 01:15:42,129experiment was carried out by the

161101:15:40,479 --> 01:15:45,428Toronto Society for psychical research

161201:15:42,130 --> 01:15:49,590in 1972 and it involved a group of

161301:15:45,429 --> 01:15:53,050researchers who put together a story of

161401:15:49,590 --> 01:15:56,289a nobleman a Renaissance English

161501:15:53,050 --> 01:15:59,449nobleman named Philip who they invented

161601:15:56,289 --> 01:16:02,479the story they did it on purpose because

161701:15:59,448 --> 01:16:05,658they wanted to see if they could hold

161801:16:02,479 --> 01:16:09,050séances and be come into contact with a

161901:16:05,658 --> 01:16:11,808swift a spirit that they invented a

162001:16:09,050 --> 01:16:13,849spear as that the soul the spirit of

162101:16:11,809 --> 01:16:16,189somebody who never existed because they

162201:16:13,849 --> 01:16:19,038


had a theory that it was the people who

162301:16:16,189 --> 01:16:22,189take part in seances that create the

162401:16:19,038 --> 01:16:25,088phenomena themselves and it seemed to

162501:16:22,189 --> 01:16:28,639work out Philip would answer questions

162601:16:25,088 --> 01:16:30,229Philip would move the table Philip on

162701:16:28,639 --> 01:16:32,418one or two occasions Philip would even

162801:16:30,229 --> 01:16:34,458levitate the table it was one of the

162901:16:32,418 --> 01:16:37,059most important experiments ever in

163001:16:34,458 --> 01:16:39,529psychical research and it's been

163101:16:37,059 --> 01:16:41,510replicated there have been other people

163201:16:39,529 --> 01:16:45,698that have done the same experiment where

163301:16:41,510 --> 01:16:48,889they would create a character and get

163401:16:45,698 --> 01:16:53,148get seance room phenomena through what

163501:16:48,889 --> 01:16:54,260they believed was group PK that is group

1636


01:16:53,149 --> 01:16:57,439psychokinesis

163701:16:54,260 --> 01:17:02,088now if group psychokinesis is a real

163801:16:57,439 --> 01:17:05,628thing then maybe maybe it was the people

163901:17:02,088 --> 01:17:09,679who were participating in the Ouija

164001:17:05,628 --> 01:17:12,618board seances that believed or came to

164101:17:09,679 --> 01:17:15,139believe in the reality of the bye-bye

164201:17:12,618 --> 01:17:18,018man that caused these phenomena to

164301:17:15,139 --> 01:17:21,708happen and maybe did give it a kind of a

164401:17:18,019 --> 01:17:23,269life in the real world but the answer

164501:17:21,708 --> 01:17:26,658for the origin of the story you can

164601:17:23,269 --> 01:17:29,389argue about that I suspect that it the

164701:17:26,658 --> 01:17:34,279origin of the story came from a mixture

164801:17:29,389 --> 01:17:36,199of the participants own experiences Eli

164901:17:34,279 --> 01:17:38,929for example as I mentioned before is


165001:17:36,198 --> 01:17:44,058fascinated by horror he has written

165101:17:38,929 --> 01:17:46,158horror stories and horror plays he is

165201:17:44,059 --> 01:17:48,369fascinated by psychical research and

165301:17:46,158 --> 01:17:51,948certainly knew the story of Philip and

165401:17:48,368 --> 01:17:56,988on how he was created through group PK

165501:17:51,948 --> 01:17:59,898and then there was Catherine who had a

165601:17:56,988 --> 01:18:01,759number of experiences she had a number

165701:17:59,899 --> 01:18:04,369of what she believed were paranormal

165801:18:01,760 --> 01:18:06,139experiences in her life and certainly

165901:18:04,368 --> 01:18:08,568accepted the possibility of it and

166001:18:06,139 --> 01:18:09,889Jonathan who was also very interested in

166101:18:08,569 --> 01:18:13,459horror

166201:18:09,889 --> 01:18:15,380in in frightening subjects so it could

166301:18:13,458 --> 01:18:17,688


be that each of them contributed in

166401:18:15,380 --> 01:18:19,189their own little way to the story that

166501:18:17,689 --> 01:18:21,918eventually came out through the

166601:18:19,189 --> 01:18:23,599planchette and also you have to

166701:18:21,918 --> 01:18:26,748understand something that this was not a

166801:18:23,599 --> 01:18:30,168laboratory experiment it's not like they

166901:18:26,748 --> 01:18:32,840had some sort of rule that there will be

167001:18:30,168 --> 01:18:35,269no discussing the story of the bye-bye

167101:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,800man unless we are actively engaged with

167201:18:35,269 --> 01:18:38,559the the Ouija board

167301:18:36,800 --> 01:18:41,689no they talked about it among themselves

167401:18:38,559 --> 01:18:43,820presumably they speculated presumably

167501:18:41,689 --> 01:18:46,899they wondered well maybe this happened

167601:18:43,819 --> 01:18:50,418maybe this is what happened so I suspect

1677


01:18:46,899 --> 01:18:53,419that a lot of what was involved was a

167801:18:50,418 --> 01:18:55,488sort of a group creation of the story

167901:18:53,418 --> 01:18:58,639and I've seen this happen and other in

168001:18:55,488 --> 01:19:00,618other in other areas for example I once

168101:18:58,639 --> 01:19:03,139attended a meeting of the intruders

168201:19:00,618 --> 01:19:05,478foundation now the intruders foundation

168301:19:03,139 --> 01:19:07,788was the group that Budd Hopkins ran in

168401:19:05,479 --> 01:19:10,820New York City for people that believed

168501:19:07,788 --> 01:19:13,969they had been abducted by aliens now in

168601:19:10,819 --> 01:19:17,090this group they were about 200 people

168701:19:13,969 --> 01:19:19,519there and they were mainly there to hear

168801:19:17,090 --> 01:19:20,989a lecture from a woman who believed that

168901:19:19,519 --> 01:19:23,958she and her partner had been abducted

1690


01:19:20,988 --> 01:19:26,928and at undergone a many stood many

169101:19:23,958 --> 01:19:29,988abductions and as I was watching this

169201:19:26,929 --> 01:19:32,748group David Jacobs who's also very well

169301:19:29,988 --> 01:19:35,058known among among in alien abduction

169401:19:32,748 --> 01:19:36,168circles he stood up and he mentioned

169501:19:35,059 --> 01:19:40,010that one of the things he's been

169601:19:36,168 --> 01:19:46,010researching is the kinds of toys that

169701:19:40,010 --> 01:19:49,610the the half-breed alien human children

169801:19:46,010 --> 01:19:51,649are playing with in the large mother

169901:19:49,609 --> 01:19:54,139ships that are supposed to be circling

170001:19:51,649 --> 01:19:55,939the earth that are in orbit around the

170101:19:54,139 --> 01:19:57,168earth because some abductees claim to

170201:19:55,939 --> 01:20:01,130have been taken to these mother ships

170301:19:57,168 --> 01:20:03,679they claim that their DNA or their semen

1704


01:20:01,130 --> 01:20:07,760or their eggs were used to create these

170501:20:03,679 --> 01:20:11,300alien hybrids now when David Jacobs

170601:20:07,760 --> 01:20:12,889asked this question to my mind what he

170701:20:11,300 --> 01:20:15,349was doing was he was actually

170801:20:12,889 --> 01:20:17,689contributing to the story because you

170901:20:15,349 --> 01:20:20,149can be sure that once that question was

171001:20:17,689 --> 01:20:21,289asked a lot of the people involved began

171101:20:20,149 --> 01:20:24,260to

171201:20:21,289 --> 01:20:26,659member in a in the loosest sense of the

171301:20:24,260 --> 01:20:29,960term remember seeing these sorts of

171401:20:26,659 --> 01:20:34,010things and so it was an odd it's an

171501:20:29,960 --> 01:20:37,399ongoing creation of a story if you like

171601:20:34,010 --> 01:20:39,079it's how a myth or folklore is created

171701:20:37,399 --> 01:20:41,089and I think something like that was


171801:20:39,079 --> 01:20:43,909involved with the bye-bye man's creation

171901:20:41,090 --> 01:20:46,730however if you believe that the Filip

172001:20:43,909 --> 01:20:48,590experiment did happen was accurately

172101:20:46,729 --> 01:20:50,869reported than you do have to consider

172201:20:48,590 --> 01:20:53,869the possibility that a real phenomena

172301:20:50,869 --> 01:20:57,710resulted from this thing that was

172401:20:53,869 --> 01:21:00,050created in the imagination and that's a

172501:20:57,710 --> 01:21:03,439key is you really believe what you think

172601:21:00,050 --> 01:21:05,420is on your mind because a lot of people

172701:21:03,439 --> 01:21:07,489can use a Ouija board for entertainment

172801:21:05,420 --> 01:21:09,829purposes or even communication purposes

172901:21:07,489 --> 01:21:12,800and never have anything bad with them we

173001:21:09,829 --> 01:21:14,449have for instance Karen Dolman who is

173101:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,699


very familiar with the Ouija board he'll

173201:21:14,449 --> 01:21:19,159be - actually doing a live Ouija board

173301:21:16,699 --> 01:21:23,269session on this show during Halloween

173401:21:19,159 --> 01:21:26,389night and she's never had anything wrong

173501:21:23,270 --> 01:21:29,060happened with her or anything evil or

173601:21:26,390 --> 01:21:31,850demonic or scary like the bye-bye man

173701:21:29,060 --> 01:21:34,430try and come through but do you think

173801:21:31,850 --> 01:21:39,430then that it's the energy that one puts

173901:21:34,430 --> 01:21:42,710into it that really alters the reality

174001:21:39,430 --> 01:21:47,560well I actually I don't really have much

174101:21:42,710 --> 01:21:51,230of a theory about it I I'm I try not to

174201:21:47,560 --> 01:21:54,430lock in too much on a particular theory

174301:21:51,229 --> 01:21:55,609but if you do accept the possibility of

174401:21:54,430 --> 01:21:57,289thought-forms

174501:21:55,609 --> 01:22:00,949if you'd like you can call them Tobi's


174601:21:57,289 --> 01:22:03,170or egregores or many other than there

174701:22:00,949 --> 01:22:05,179are other names for them if you accept

174801:22:03,170 --> 01:22:07,159that possibility and certainly there are

174901:22:05,180 --> 01:22:10,810a lot of mystically minded people as

175001:22:07,159 --> 01:22:12,340well as people who have been involved in

175101:22:10,810 --> 01:22:14,480parapsychology

175201:22:12,340 --> 01:22:17,630hookans who have accepted that

175301:22:14,479 --> 01:22:20,449possibility then yes it might explain

175401:22:17,630 --> 01:22:22,750where how phenomena like what was

175501:22:20,449 --> 01:22:25,250reported with the by by man occurred now

175601:22:22,750 --> 01:22:29,149the bye-bye man is going to be changing

175701:22:25,250 --> 01:22:31,189of course soon because there was the

175801:22:29,149 --> 01:22:33,500story that came through the board now

175901:22:31,189 --> 01:22:34,629the original story is written down by


176001:22:33,500 --> 01:22:38,380elion notebooks

176101:22:34,630 --> 01:22:40,779was lost years ago so the story that we

176201:22:38,380 --> 01:22:43,810get is his version of it after having

176301:22:40,779 --> 01:22:47,619been told at these parties for years now

176401:22:43,810 --> 01:22:50,010I asked him to try to get back to what

176501:22:47,619 --> 01:22:52,149he believes was the most stripped-down

176601:22:50,010 --> 01:22:54,100unembellished version of the story

176701:22:52,149 --> 01:22:55,569because as he would tell it he wouldn't

176801:22:54,100 --> 01:22:57,370add things he would try to be would

176901:22:55,569 --> 01:22:59,369dramatize it because he's a good

177001:22:57,369 --> 01:23:02,500storyteller he's a very good storyteller

177101:22:59,369 --> 01:23:06,250and he wants you to enjoy the story he's

177201:23:02,500 --> 01:23:08,079telling he wants to frighten you so we

177301:23:06,250 --> 01:23:11,409tried to strip it down to the to the


177401:23:08,079 --> 01:23:15,159most basic and closest to what really

177501:23:11,409 --> 01:23:17,349happened and so it went from a story

177601:23:15,159 --> 01:23:19,960that was told by a Ouija board to a

177701:23:17,350 --> 01:23:23,680story that was told at parties to a

177801:23:19,960 --> 01:23:26,439story that I told in my book and a story

177901:23:23,680 --> 01:23:29,430that I do tell on the radio and now it's

178001:23:26,439 --> 01:23:32,710going to be a story that's going to be

178101:23:29,430 --> 01:23:34,750entering that's going to be made into a

178201:23:32,710 --> 01:23:37,859movie and millions of more people are

178301:23:34,750 --> 01:23:40,539again and since the numbers stagger me

178401:23:37,859 --> 01:23:42,639millions of people are going to hear

178501:23:40,539 --> 01:23:44,109about the by by men whether they see the

178601:23:42,640 --> 01:23:50,110movie or not they'll hear the commercial

178701:23:44,109 --> 01:23:53,649


and what is it going to evolve into not

178801:23:50,109 --> 01:23:55,389when you see I actually I never ever in

178901:23:53,649 --> 01:23:57,269a million years expected something like

179001:23:55,390 --> 01:24:00,760a movie that never even occurred to me

179101:23:57,270 --> 01:24:04,150my ambition for the by-by man if I can

179201:24:00,760 --> 01:24:06,520be said to have had one was that he

179301:24:04,149 --> 01:24:08,139become a part of American folklore what

179401:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,540happened with Slenderman is what I

179501:24:08,140 --> 01:24:14,590thought might happen with the vibe I'm

179601:24:10,539 --> 01:24:17,229an and gloom singer but strangely enough

179701:24:14,590 --> 01:24:21,130what would actually did happen was I

179801:24:17,229 --> 01:24:23,409told the story and suddenly I was

179901:24:21,130 --> 01:24:25,630getting I was getting I was signing

180001:24:23,409 --> 01:24:27,809contracts so that these people were


180101:24:25,630 --> 01:24:30,520optioning it so they they didn't own it

180201:24:27,810 --> 01:24:33,580but they had a lot of say in what could

180301:24:30,520 --> 01:24:35,200be done with it so the story is about

180401:24:33,579 --> 01:24:37,930the by-by man that were beginning to

180501:24:35,199 --> 01:24:40,210appear online were being taken offline

180601:24:37,930 --> 01:24:42,460by lawyers because I was seen that the

180701:24:40,210 --> 01:24:46,199story was already changing as it was

180801:24:42,460 --> 01:24:48,069being retold as it was being retold

180901:24:46,199 --> 01:24:50,949online

181001:24:48,069 --> 01:24:54,279but it never did become the sled never

181101:24:50,949 --> 01:24:57,340became what the Slenderman became but it

181201:24:54,279 --> 01:24:59,649has you know it is going to undergo some

181301:24:57,340 --> 01:25:01,480interesting change in Hollywood and I

1814


01:24:59,649 --> 01:25:04,539have no idea what they did this story I

181501:25:01,479 --> 01:25:06,009I had no contact with him at all

181601:25:04,539 --> 01:25:07,510they you know they bought the rights and

181701:25:06,010 --> 01:25:09,430that was it that's the last I heard of

181801:25:07,510 --> 01:25:12,730it I don't even know what

181901:25:09,430 --> 01:25:16,420well how they made him look beyond the

182001:25:12,729 --> 01:25:18,159poster well let's just hope they don't

182101:25:16,420 --> 01:25:20,140do to you what they did during the

182201:25:18,159 --> 01:25:22,269conjuring series with the Perrin family

182301:25:20,140 --> 01:25:24,250I remember Andrea parent telling us on

182401:25:22,270 --> 01:25:27,690this show that when they did the

182501:25:24,250 --> 01:25:30,310original conjuring on her story that

182601:25:27,689 --> 01:25:32,409they really didn't take the facts and

182701:25:30,310 --> 01:25:35,770Hollywood just went Hollywood on it

182801:25:32,409 --> 01:25:37,090


because it's loosely based on a true

182901:25:35,770 --> 01:25:39,370story and that's how they get around

183001:25:37,090 --> 01:25:41,289with everything so I hope that doesn't

183101:25:39,369 --> 01:25:43,210happen for you well you've got to

183201:25:41,289 --> 01:25:45,729remember something I'm in a slightly

183301:25:43,210 --> 01:25:47,470different position than someone like her

183401:25:45,729 --> 01:25:50,649because those were her personal

183501:25:47,470 --> 01:25:52,360experiences I am one in a chain of

183601:25:50,649 --> 01:25:55,750storytellers

183701:25:52,359 --> 01:25:58,269in that involved the bye-bye man so even

183801:25:55,750 --> 01:26:00,010though it is one of my favorite stories

183901:25:58,270 --> 01:26:02,110and it's one of the stories I'm proudest

184001:26:00,010 --> 01:26:05,369of at the same time I don't have the

184101:26:02,109 --> 01:26:07,869personal I don't have the personal

1842


01:26:05,369 --> 01:26:10,840connection to it that someone like her

184301:26:07,869 --> 01:26:12,250would have had so if they make changes I

184401:26:10,840 --> 01:26:14,739don't take it personally you know I

184501:26:12,250 --> 01:26:17,229understand that it's a visual medium and

184601:26:14,739 --> 01:26:18,939they they are going to have to do it a

184701:26:17,229 --> 01:26:21,039little differently I don't even know if

184801:26:18,939 --> 01:26:23,679they include a gloom singer I have no

184901:26:21,039 --> 01:26:25,239idea what they did to be honest all I've

185001:26:23,680 --> 01:26:27,190seen is what they did on the trailer so

185101:26:25,239 --> 01:26:31,989at least I know they did keep the trains

185201:26:27,189 --> 01:26:33,639and I'm glad about that well at least it

185301:26:31,989 --> 01:26:36,489says something that they actually are

185401:26:33,640 --> 01:26:39,520leaving part of it to stay together yeah

185501:26:36,489 --> 01:26:42,119that's for sure I mean you know what I


185601:26:39,520 --> 01:26:46,000never really got into the whole eye

185701:26:42,119 --> 01:26:48,340aspect of how Hollywood kind of massages

185801:26:46,000 --> 01:26:51,369things for their own benefit you know

185901:26:48,340 --> 01:26:53,529because the story is better than the

186001:26:51,369 --> 01:26:55,180true story in their minds there always

186101:26:53,529 --> 01:26:58,239has to be the conflict there always has

186201:26:55,180 --> 01:27:01,570to be something that is different that

186301:26:58,239 --> 01:27:03,760they make at their own you know but

186401:27:01,569 --> 01:27:06,549it's sad when you see stories such as

186501:27:03,760 --> 01:27:08,980you know like I just mentioned the

186601:27:06,550 --> 01:27:11,590conjuring or the real story of Travis

186701:27:08,979 --> 01:27:14,229Walton and fire in the sky where you

186801:27:11,590 --> 01:27:16,920know the Hollywood made the 80s seem

186901:27:14,229 --> 01:27:19,119


very very evil and raunchy and and

187001:27:16,920 --> 01:27:21,159grotesque to what they did with them and

187101:27:19,119 --> 01:27:24,010he's like no then that really didn't

187201:27:21,159 --> 01:27:26,729happen at all you know like it would be

187301:27:24,010 --> 01:27:29,260nice if they just took the story and

187401:27:26,729 --> 01:27:32,319made it because some of these stories

187501:27:29,260 --> 01:27:35,710are just so freaky Robert yeah in their

187601:27:32,319 --> 01:27:38,109own that they don't need the filler or

187701:27:35,710 --> 01:27:41,590some writer in some room saying you know

187801:27:38,109 --> 01:27:44,170I'm just going to elaborate on this part

187901:27:41,590 --> 01:27:46,420over here or I'm gonna elaborate on the

188001:27:44,170 --> 01:27:49,539bye-bye man actually being you know a

188101:27:46,420 --> 01:27:51,399true character where he has a face and a

188201:27:49,539 --> 01:27:55,170


persona and everything you know what I'm

188301:27:51,399 --> 01:27:56,379saying I do I do but you know I don't

188401:27:55,170 --> 01:27:58,899again

188501:27:56,380 --> 01:28:02,409I don't hold it against them because it

188601:27:58,899 --> 01:28:04,829is a different medium and I can discuss

188701:28:02,409 --> 01:28:07,899things in a book I can discuss

188801:28:04,829 --> 01:28:10,989background and I can discuss all sorts

188901:28:07,899 --> 01:28:14,589of things in a book that just do not

189001:28:10,989 --> 01:28:17,289translate to the screen I mean Dave you

189101:28:14,590 --> 01:28:18,520must spend a lot of time talking to

189201:28:17,289 --> 01:28:21,760people who have had paranormal

189301:28:18,520 --> 01:28:23,770experiences right absolutely I've had my

189401:28:21,760 --> 01:28:27,789own okay that's the reason why we

189501:28:23,770 --> 01:28:31,330started this show so you know that they

189601:28:27,789 --> 01:28:34,630


rarely almost never have a satisfying

189701:28:31,329 --> 01:28:37,479conclusion what usually happens is the

189801:28:34,630 --> 01:28:40,480person has an experience or a number of

189901:28:37,479 --> 01:28:45,849experiences and then for no good reason

190001:28:40,479 --> 01:28:47,859they just peter out right yeah and the

190101:28:45,850 --> 01:28:49,329way I explain that to our listeners and

190201:28:47,859 --> 01:28:52,329they're probably sick of me hearing this

190301:28:49,329 --> 01:28:55,210is when you have a paranormal or UF

190401:28:52,329 --> 01:28:56,350illogical or cryptid experience or

190501:28:55,210 --> 01:28:59,050whatever it may be

190601:28:56,350 --> 01:29:01,539it's like unlocking a door and when you

190701:28:59,050 --> 01:29:03,190open that door and walk through you

190801:29:01,539 --> 01:29:05,529think you got the answer on the other

190901:29:03,189 --> 01:29:08,079side only to realize there's ten more

191001:29:05,529 --> 01:29:10,449doors that you have to open on the other


191101:29:08,079 --> 01:29:13,000side and then when you've unlocked each

191201:29:10,449 --> 01:29:14,949of those doors and walked inside there's

191301:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,340ten more doors behind each of those or

191401:29:14,949 --> 01:29:17,619it

191501:29:15,340 --> 01:29:20,020ten doors you know and it just keeps

191601:29:17,619 --> 01:29:21,909going and going where there really isn't

191701:29:20,020 --> 01:29:23,680an answer and I can understand where

191801:29:21,909 --> 01:29:27,010you're saying that you know Hollywood

191901:29:23,680 --> 01:29:29,860does have to create a conclusion right

192001:29:27,010 --> 01:29:33,159but in certain stories they've had that

192101:29:29,859 --> 01:29:36,869Caloocan conclusion pardon me and yet

192201:29:33,159 --> 01:29:39,460they've taken it and absolutely

192301:29:36,869 --> 01:29:40,750shattered what the original story was

192401:29:39,460 --> 01:29:42,960like if you take something like the

192501:29:40,750 --> 01:29:45,909Travis Walton story and fire in the sky

192601:29:42,960 --> 01:29:48,640the story was intriguing enough I mean

192701:29:45,909 --> 01:29:50,380it was written for them until they had

192801:29:48,640 --> 01:29:52,060to go Hollywood on it that's my only

192901:29:50,380 --> 01:29:53,680point you know our story like the

193001:29:52,060 --> 01:29:55,380bye-bye man where really there's no

193101:29:53,680 --> 01:29:58,329ending to it I could see them making

193201:29:55,380 --> 01:30:00,159something up you know loosely based on a

193301:29:58,329 --> 01:30:02,319true story I could see that happening

193401:30:00,159 --> 01:30:05,380you know what I'm saying but I think

193501:30:02,319 --> 01:30:07,869what is a difference yeah well and also

193601:30:05,380 --> 01:30:10,210I would also add that there is the

193701:30:07,869 --> 01:30:12,640there's the difference of someone like

193801:30:10,210 --> 01:30:15,100


Travis Walton or the lady involved in

193901:30:12,640 --> 01:30:16,900the conjuring where these were their

194001:30:15,100 --> 01:30:19,690personal experiences and they're going

194101:30:16,899 --> 01:30:22,239to take it a lot more seriously then

194201:30:19,689 --> 01:30:25,119essentially someone like me who is just

194301:30:22,239 --> 01:30:29,529telling the story I wasn't involved you

194401:30:25,119 --> 01:30:31,329know my big contribution was I heard

194501:30:29,529 --> 01:30:34,539this story and I realized that this is

194601:30:31,329 --> 01:30:36,909something very good this is something

194701:30:34,539 --> 01:30:39,279that I have to remember I told you at

194801:30:36,909 --> 01:30:40,869the beginning that when I was little and

194901:30:39,279 --> 01:30:43,509I found a good story I would run to show

195001:30:40,869 --> 01:30:45,939it to my parents when I found this story

195101:30:43,510 --> 01:30:50,260I wanted everyone to hear it because it


195201:30:45,939 --> 01:30:51,699was just such a good story it was so it

195301:30:50,260 --> 01:30:55,659scared me

195401:30:51,699 --> 01:30:58,630it was interesting it's a it had a lot

195501:30:55,659 --> 01:31:00,819going it felt like folklore even though

195601:30:58,630 --> 01:31:03,310it Nev never been folklore in the

195701:31:00,819 --> 01:31:04,899ordinary sense it felt like folklore it

195801:31:03,310 --> 01:31:07,060felt like the kind of story you hear

195901:31:04,899 --> 01:31:09,879you're told around a campfire even

196001:31:07,060 --> 01:31:11,020though it never had been and he came

196101:31:09,880 --> 01:31:14,289from a Ouija board

196201:31:11,020 --> 01:31:16,150so I also do I wonder how many Hollywood

196301:31:14,289 --> 01:31:22,210stories began with a Ouija board that's

196401:31:16,149 --> 01:31:24,069another question but again I I really

1965


01:31:22,210 --> 01:31:26,529don't hold it against them and there is

196601:31:24,069 --> 01:31:27,759another aspect to it you know Hollywood

196701:31:26,529 --> 01:31:29,590writers will all

196801:31:27,760 --> 01:31:31,329than they'll write a romantic comedy

196901:31:29,590 --> 01:31:32,860then they'll write thriller then the

197001:31:31,328 --> 01:31:36,118right of Western that they do that sort

197101:31:32,859 --> 01:31:39,460of thing they are not invested in

197201:31:36,118 --> 01:31:42,038whether the paranormal they have no

197301:31:39,460 --> 01:31:44,380investment in the paranormal really it's

197401:31:42,038 --> 01:31:46,868just another story to tell so I can

197501:31:44,380 --> 01:31:50,859understand why they would be less

197601:31:46,868 --> 01:31:52,868worried about filling things in bending

197701:31:50,859 --> 01:31:55,658them adding a romance that wasn't there

197801:31:52,868 --> 01:31:57,518I think they should keep it within

197901:31:55,658 --> 01:31:59,768


limits I mean there have been examples

198001:31:57,519 --> 01:32:02,110where true stories were so distorted

198101:31:59,769 --> 01:32:04,059that they became an embarrassment but

198201:32:02,109 --> 01:32:07,389for something like this I can certainly

198301:32:04,059 --> 01:32:08,710understand why the why they they will

198401:32:07,389 --> 01:32:11,109make changes oh you know I meant to

198501:32:08,710 --> 01:32:15,578mention something that I forgot before I

198601:32:11,109 --> 01:32:20,649had to get releases from Katherine and

198701:32:15,578 --> 01:32:23,849Jonathan in order to in order to for

198801:32:20,649 --> 01:32:26,710thee for the contract to go forward and

198901:32:23,849 --> 01:32:28,659eventually I had to track them down this

199001:32:26,710 --> 01:32:31,630is where being a researcher really comes

199101:32:28,658 --> 01:32:36,788in useful because I was finally able to

199201:32:31,630 --> 01:32:40,090track them down and Katherine had one


199301:32:36,788 --> 01:32:42,309request and that is she wanted nothing

199401:32:40,090 --> 01:32:43,949more to do with it she was happy to do

199501:32:42,309 --> 01:32:46,510it she was happy to sign that release

199601:32:43,948 --> 01:32:49,149she wanted no money nothing like that

199701:32:46,510 --> 01:32:52,389she wanted nothing more to do with this

199801:32:49,149 --> 01:32:54,308whole thing so I have to assume that

199901:32:52,389 --> 01:32:56,469this was a traumatic experience for her

200001:32:54,309 --> 01:32:59,019Jonathan was much more relaxed about it

200101:32:56,469 --> 01:33:02,980he he just happily signed it and went

200201:32:59,019 --> 01:33:06,130back to what he was doing but it I think

200301:33:02,979 --> 01:33:10,839it says something about how deeply it

200401:33:06,130 --> 01:33:13,750affected her I think if she were let's

200501:33:10,840 --> 01:33:16,710


say the movies a hit and and let's say

200601:33:13,750 --> 01:33:20,439that people go looking for the real

200701:33:16,710 --> 01:33:21,819Katherine and the real Jonathan I could

200801:33:20,439 --> 01:33:24,460see where someone like her would be

200901:33:21,819 --> 01:33:27,658upset if they did make changes because

201001:33:24,460 --> 01:33:30,969again this was her real experience I

201101:33:27,658 --> 01:33:33,189simply I don't have a dog in the fight

201201:33:30,969 --> 01:33:36,760you know I guess that's really the

201301:33:33,189 --> 01:33:39,729bottom line for it on the flip side is

201401:33:36,760 --> 01:33:41,530it kind of exciting that Hollywood has

201501:33:39,729 --> 01:33:42,909come to you with your writings

201601:33:41,529 --> 01:33:46,059and saying hey we think we may have

201701:33:42,909 --> 01:33:48,189something in a film here you know I

201801:33:46,060 --> 01:33:51,250think that would be very intriguing to

201901:33:48,189 --> 01:33:55,599receive that email or that phone call so


202001:33:51,250 --> 01:33:57,729it was I Italy was first of all it was

202101:33:55,600 --> 01:33:59,320something I never ever ever expected to

202201:33:57,729 --> 01:34:02,949happen you know you have to remember

202301:33:59,319 --> 01:34:04,329I need a writer's life I go for a week

202401:34:02,949 --> 01:34:08,649without talking to anyone

202501:34:04,329 --> 01:34:11,019i I I won't say I'm a misanthrope but I

202601:34:08,649 --> 01:34:14,349do spend a lot of time alone because I'm

202701:34:11,020 --> 01:34:16,720writing and the idea of that whole

202801:34:14,350 --> 01:34:18,130Hollywood world is just so strange to me

202901:34:16,720 --> 01:34:20,050you know everyone's good-looking

203001:34:18,130 --> 01:34:24,069everyone's young everyone seems to be

203101:34:20,050 --> 01:34:26,500rich and I'm a shabby little writer in

203201:34:24,069 --> 01:34:29,460my apartment just grinding out stories

2033


01:34:26,500 --> 01:34:38,920about strange things that have happened

203401:34:29,460 --> 01:34:42,909the the the excitement for me is I

203501:34:38,920 --> 01:34:44,619simply cannot even imagine with it there

203601:34:42,909 --> 01:34:46,149I'm going to be flying out there and

203701:34:44,619 --> 01:34:48,309there's going to be an opening and a red

203801:34:46,149 --> 01:34:50,019carpet and the whole bit that is just I

203901:34:48,310 --> 01:34:53,110don't even have a pair of shoes I gotta

204001:34:50,020 --> 01:34:54,520buy a pair of shoes I I simply don't

204101:34:53,109 --> 01:34:57,009know what's going to be happening it's

204201:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,400so strange to make and I'm very excited

204301:34:57,010 --> 01:35:00,760too

204401:34:57,399 --> 01:35:02,920because for nothing else I'll sell more

204501:35:00,760 --> 01:35:04,840books and people will hear about my

204601:35:02,920 --> 01:35:07,510other books which I'm happy about


204701:35:04,840 --> 01:35:11,650because I think I've got some stuff that

204801:35:07,510 --> 01:35:14,039a lot of readers will enjoy that movie's

204901:35:11,649 --> 01:35:16,359supposed to come out this December ring

205001:35:14,039 --> 01:35:19,180well it's supposed to come out on

205101:35:16,359 --> 01:35:21,069December 9th this is the third date

205201:35:19,180 --> 01:35:23,200they've given though so I'm gonna just

205301:35:21,069 --> 01:35:28,259assume it's December 9th and go with

205401:35:23,199 --> 01:35:32,319that well I hope for you that they are

205501:35:28,260 --> 01:35:34,420kind to you in regards to your writing

205601:35:32,319 --> 01:35:35,889and the the bridge of body Isle or the

205701:35:34,420 --> 01:35:38,289bridge to body Island which you wrote

205801:35:35,890 --> 01:35:42,100you know because the movie is based on

205901:35:38,289 --> 01:35:44,409that I on that book you know and like I


206001:35:42,100 --> 01:35:45,880said it can be very very cruel dealing

206101:35:44,409 --> 01:35:48,099with Hollywood and hopefully you don't

206201:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,390have to get any of that you know and I

206301:35:48,100 --> 01:35:52,000hope you took made sure that they were

206401:35:49,390 --> 01:35:53,800taking care of you as well oh yeah I

206501:35:52,000 --> 01:35:55,300mean I haven't had any bad experiences

206601:35:53,800 --> 01:35:57,909with them at all ever

206701:35:55,300 --> 01:36:00,460been very nice the guy who wrote the

206801:35:57,908 --> 01:36:02,710screenplay I am on Facebook friends with

206901:36:00,460 --> 01:36:03,969him in fact it may be you some of your

207001:36:02,710 --> 01:36:06,520listeners might have even heard of him

207101:36:03,969 --> 01:36:08,770his name is jonathan penner he i think

207201:36:06,520 --> 01:36:11,889he won on one of those survivor type

207301:36:08,770 --> 01:36:13,239


shows or he might have and he was an

207401:36:11,889 --> 01:36:15,730actor and he so he's done some things

207501:36:13,238 --> 01:36:18,609and the guy who actually plays the

207601:36:15,729 --> 01:36:21,848bye-bye man is an actor called doug

207701:36:18,609 --> 01:36:26,500jones and doug jones is well known as

207801:36:21,849 --> 01:36:32,020playing the grey man in Pan's Labyrinth

207901:36:26,500 --> 01:36:35,948and playing oh gosh he's playing that

208001:36:32,020 --> 01:36:38,349sort of fish man in Hellboy and a bunch

208101:36:35,948 --> 01:36:41,529of other things and he is a just such

208201:36:38,349 --> 01:36:43,809that he's the nicest man he is he's

208301:36:41,529 --> 01:36:45,429really did he's plays a lot of horror

208401:36:43,809 --> 01:36:47,230roles but he apparently is a real

208501:36:45,429 --> 01:36:49,149sweetheart so I'm looking forward to

208601:36:47,229 --> 01:36:50,678


meeting him also Faye Dunaway's in the

208701:36:49,149 --> 01:36:51,908movie and I'm really excited about that

208801:36:50,679 --> 01:36:55,328the fact that I might get to meet Faye

208901:36:51,908 --> 01:36:57,819Dunaway but that's something else sounds

209001:36:55,328 --> 01:37:00,219like a childhood crush there it is I

209101:36:57,819 --> 01:37:04,448guess I guess if it yeah I suppose so

209201:37:00,219 --> 01:37:08,170but you know as far as I'm concerned is

209301:37:04,448 --> 01:37:09,029if the if that the check is if the check

209401:37:08,170 --> 01:37:11,800clears

209501:37:09,029 --> 01:37:14,889everyone's been great I am fine you know

209601:37:11,800 --> 01:37:16,809I have no complaints at all and the

209701:37:14,889 --> 01:37:19,179possibility that there might be sequels

209801:37:16,809 --> 01:37:22,599who knows for me that'll just sell more

209901:37:19,179 --> 01:37:25,690books so I'm good how did they come to

2100


01:37:22,599 --> 01:37:29,170you and say in that email or that phone

210101:37:25,689 --> 01:37:31,299call say hey we want to do a movie on

210201:37:29,170 --> 01:37:34,539your book how does that happen because

210301:37:31,300 --> 01:37:37,300I've always wondered that well I can

210401:37:34,539 --> 01:37:41,078tell you again I did the show I did the

210501:37:37,300 --> 01:37:45,539radio show and it was either rebroadcast

210601:37:41,078 --> 01:37:50,198or something out in California and a

210701:37:45,539 --> 01:37:52,840director named David Pryor heard it now

210801:37:50,198 --> 01:37:56,859David Pryor has since died he died in a

210901:37:52,840 --> 01:38:02,050car accident before the movie was even

211001:37:56,859 --> 01:38:04,420made but David Pryor was I tell you he

211101:38:02,050 --> 01:38:07,300made some really bad horror movies I

211201:38:04,420 --> 01:38:08,440mean just terrible horror movies but he

211301:38:07,300 --> 01:38:10,600made some


211401:38:08,439 --> 01:38:13,448documentaries he made a documentary

211501:38:10,600 --> 01:38:17,079about he made two documentaries about

211601:38:13,448 --> 01:38:19,299the Zodiac killer that are really well

211701:38:17,079 --> 01:38:21,519done I recommend them to anyone

211801:38:19,300 --> 01:38:23,800just look up David Pryor and Zodiac

211901:38:21,520 --> 01:38:29,530killer and these documentaries are

212001:38:23,800 --> 01:38:30,850terrific so he contacted my know I think

212101:38:29,529 --> 01:38:32,800he might have contacted me directly

212201:38:30,850 --> 01:38:35,949because I always give out email or

212301:38:32,800 --> 01:38:36,369contact information and I didn't believe

212401:38:35,948 --> 01:38:38,679them

212501:38:36,369 --> 01:38:41,619I I just didn't pay any attention to it

212601:38:38,680 --> 01:38:47,340I forwarded it to my editor and the

2127


01:38:41,619 --> 01:38:50,800editor did all the arranging and after

212801:38:47,340 --> 01:38:54,850after I got all the releases and signed

212901:38:50,800 --> 01:38:56,980everything I they sent me a contract

213001:38:54,850 --> 01:39:00,250which truly had to be seen to be

213101:38:56,979 --> 01:39:02,649believed the contract was over fifty

213201:39:00,250 --> 01:39:06,159pages long and I had to go over every

213301:39:02,649 --> 01:39:08,349word of it so after doing that and it

213401:39:06,159 --> 01:39:11,859seemed fine to me

213501:39:08,350 --> 01:39:13,660we signed and I forgot about it because

213601:39:11,859 --> 01:39:15,369I I don't know much about the movie

213701:39:13,659 --> 01:39:18,399business but I do know enough to know

213801:39:15,369 --> 01:39:22,210that the chances of a film actually

213901:39:18,399 --> 01:39:25,179getting made are slim to almost nothing

214001:39:22,210 --> 01:39:27,279from what I understand they they start

214101:39:25,180 --> 01:39:29,380


trying to make hundreds of movies a year

214201:39:27,279 --> 01:39:33,279in Hollywood and end up making a

214301:39:29,380 --> 01:39:35,409fraction of them and even if the movie

214401:39:33,279 --> 01:39:37,479gets made it might not get released or

214501:39:35,409 --> 01:39:39,399if it gets released it gets a limited

214601:39:37,479 --> 01:39:42,099release so you know there are so many

214701:39:39,399 --> 01:39:44,289things that can go wrong but after a

214801:39:42,100 --> 01:39:46,989couple of years and me just pretending

214901:39:44,289 --> 01:39:49,119that I wasn't thinking about it I a

215001:39:46,988 --> 01:39:51,849friend of mine called and said you know

215101:39:49,119 --> 01:39:54,849your name is in Variety magazine and I

215201:39:51,850 --> 01:39:57,010said why and they said because they're

215301:39:54,850 --> 01:40:00,039making the bridge to body island into a

215401:39:57,010 --> 01:40:04,329movie and since after that it started to

215501:40:00,039 --> 01:40:06,550go very fast once that happened and I


215601:40:04,329 --> 01:40:07,988that the screenwriter contacted me and

215701:40:06,550 --> 01:40:10,060asked you know just asked me a couple of

215801:40:07,988 --> 01:40:13,659questions and that was the last that I

215901:40:10,060 --> 01:40:18,280had to do with him so from there on then

216001:40:13,659 --> 01:40:20,380there was a call for people to audition

216101:40:18,279 --> 01:40:22,159in fact I think there are even still

216201:40:20,380 --> 01:40:25,310some audition

216301:40:22,159 --> 01:40:28,729auditions for the bye-bye man on YouTube

216401:40:25,310 --> 01:40:30,350which I was surprised to see and then

216501:40:28,729 --> 01:40:31,789they announced that they were going that

216601:40:30,350 --> 01:40:34,520they had they were scouting locations

216701:40:31,789 --> 01:40:36,800and then they ended up picking they

216801:40:34,520 --> 01:40:38,600filmed it in Cleveland which I think was


216901:40:36,800 --> 01:40:43,670a very good choice because it's

217001:40:38,600 --> 01:40:45,950Midwestern like like Wisconsin and they

217101:40:43,670 --> 01:40:48,230have a lot of trains there so I think it

217201:40:45,949 --> 01:40:51,019was a good choice so that they they

217301:40:48,229 --> 01:40:53,029filmed it in Cleveland and again it just

217401:40:51,020 --> 01:40:55,700went so fast because it went from there

217501:40:53,029 --> 01:40:57,380to okay it's done

217601:40:55,699 --> 01:40:59,949and we're now we're just gonna edit it

217701:40:57,380 --> 01:41:02,810and then we're gonna get started on

217801:40:59,949 --> 01:41:05,329putting together the promotional so now

217901:41:02,810 --> 01:41:07,130there's a trailer for it on YouTube and

218001:41:05,329 --> 01:41:09,229again it got pushed back because of

218101:41:07,130 --> 01:41:12,380other things that happened for example I


218201:41:09,229 --> 01:41:15,769think the studio's the studio released a

218301:41:12,380 --> 01:41:17,960movie that didn't do well and they were

218401:41:15,770 --> 01:41:22,070kind of hoping that this movie would

218501:41:17,960 --> 01:41:23,659follow up on that release but again I

218601:41:22,069 --> 01:41:24,380don't know I don't know how these things

218701:41:23,659 --> 01:41:25,880work

218801:41:24,380 --> 01:41:28,730but they are gonna be releasing it in

218901:41:25,880 --> 01:41:32,000December and it got good it got good

219001:41:28,729 --> 01:41:33,889preview reviews so uh you know again I

219101:41:32,000 --> 01:41:35,750haven't seen it I I have no idea what to

219201:41:33,890 --> 01:41:40,010expect just what I saw in the trailer

219301:41:35,750 --> 01:41:41,930that sounds really really fun and

219401:41:40,010 --> 01:41:44,690interesting to see how it all comes

219501:41:41,930 --> 01:41:46,909together for you it's the only since


219601:41:44,689 --> 01:41:48,619you're seeing the beginning parts do

219701:41:46,909 --> 01:41:52,130they keep in contact with you Robert

219801:41:48,619 --> 01:41:54,380in regard to nothing nothing not at all

219901:41:52,130 --> 01:41:56,239it's gonna be frustrating no way you

220001:41:54,380 --> 01:41:58,220know it really isn't so bad because I

220101:41:56,238 --> 01:42:00,439just became Facebook friends with some

220201:41:58,220 --> 01:42:01,940of the people involved so when I had a

220301:42:00,439 --> 01:42:04,339question or something I'd write to them

220401:42:01,939 --> 01:42:06,979and they would answer everyone actually

220501:42:04,340 --> 01:42:08,960everyone has been really nice to me I've

220601:42:06,979 --> 01:42:11,329heard horror stories but no hasn't

220701:42:08,960 --> 01:42:15,020happened to me like I said everyone's

220801:42:11,329 --> 01:42:18,439been great and I will say that I I have

220901:42:15,020 --> 01:42:21,710


had to I have had to make an effort on

221001:42:18,439 --> 01:42:22,789my part you know other way if I hadn't

221101:42:21,710 --> 01:42:26,180made an effort I wouldn't have known

221201:42:22,789 --> 01:42:30,170anything that was going on I had to I

221301:42:26,180 --> 01:42:32,239had to do Google searches once a week to

221401:42:30,170 --> 01:42:33,980see what if any new developments that

221501:42:32,238 --> 01:42:35,069occurred because no one ever told me

221601:42:33,979 --> 01:42:38,848anything they never told

221701:42:35,069 --> 01:42:40,789publisher anything so it was we had a

221801:42:38,849 --> 01:42:45,690few little problems but apart from that

221901:42:40,789 --> 01:42:49,618it's been fine and you know I'm gonna go

222001:42:45,689 --> 01:42:51,448out there spend my two or three days be

222101:42:49,618 --> 01:42:52,979surrounded by people who I never thought

222201:42:51,448 --> 01:42:55,049in a million years I would ever even


222301:42:52,979 --> 01:42:57,299meet maybe I'll go to Grauman's Chinese

222401:42:55,050 --> 01:42:58,920Theater I know I want to visit something

222501:42:57,300 --> 01:42:59,849called the Museum of death out there

222601:42:58,920 --> 01:43:00,599which is supposed to be pretty

222701:42:59,849 --> 01:43:02,578interesting

222801:43:00,599 --> 01:43:05,010maybe I'll go on a black dahlia tour or

222901:43:02,578 --> 01:43:09,960something and then I'll come home and

223001:43:05,010 --> 01:43:11,280get back to writing during your time

223101:43:09,960 --> 01:43:14,520when you were talking with Jonathan

223201:43:11,279 --> 01:43:16,590about the bye-bye man did he ever give a

223301:43:14,520 --> 01:43:19,650description of what the by my man

223401:43:16,590 --> 01:43:22,529so-called look like no he never saw him

223501:43:19,649 --> 01:43:25,559remember he only saw the shadows under

223601:43:22,529 --> 01:43:27,269the door right I understand that but did


223701:43:25,560 --> 01:43:31,860the bye-bye man via the Ouija board give

223801:43:27,270 --> 01:43:33,599any sort of explanation a description

223901:43:31,859 --> 01:43:35,848you said you know it was it was a

224001:43:33,599 --> 01:43:37,590description it was if I remember

224101:43:35,849 --> 01:43:40,078correctly now don't quote me on this

224201:43:37,590 --> 01:43:42,060because I might be a little I might

224301:43:40,078 --> 01:43:43,618remind my memory of it might be a little

224401:43:42,060 --> 01:43:48,630I don't read the story for awhile as you

224501:43:43,618 --> 01:43:50,819can imagine but if my memory of it might

224601:43:48,630 --> 01:43:52,529be a little distorted by the images that

224701:43:50,819 --> 01:43:56,009are coming out from the movie but if I

224801:43:52,529 --> 01:43:58,050remember correctly tall thin white

224901:43:56,010 --> 01:44:00,630skinned of course wearing the dark

2250


01:43:58,050 --> 01:44:04,710glasses painted black on the inside long

225101:44:00,630 --> 01:44:08,190white hair a broad-brimmed hat a navy

225201:44:04,710 --> 01:44:12,510type pea coat sort of vaguely nautical

225301:44:08,189 --> 01:44:16,738looking jacket pants issues and also

225401:44:12,510 --> 01:44:20,579looking kind of rundown again a vague

225501:44:16,738 --> 01:44:23,578hobo quality to to his appearance and of

225601:44:20,578 --> 01:44:26,099course carrying the sack of gore but

225701:44:23,578 --> 01:44:29,009beyond that that was if I think as much

225801:44:26,099 --> 01:44:31,590detail as we got but as you know

225901:44:29,010 --> 01:44:35,030something like what his facial features

226001:44:31,590 --> 01:44:37,199look like and nothing that's specific I

226101:44:35,029 --> 01:44:39,658mean when I think of this creature I'd

226201:44:37,198 --> 01:44:42,598hate to use a wrestling term on this but

226301:44:39,658 --> 01:44:45,269I think of you know the WWE's Undertaker


226401:44:42,599 --> 01:44:47,940you know with the with the round Stetson

226501:44:45,270 --> 01:44:48,770with a long black trench coat and having

226601:44:47,939 --> 01:44:50,899some earring

226701:44:48,770 --> 01:44:53,420music almost following him you know what

226801:44:50,899 --> 01:44:55,489I'm saying that's the image I get when I

226901:44:53,420 --> 01:44:57,500think of this what do you get if you

227001:44:55,489 --> 01:45:00,319were to use your imagination thinking of

227101:44:57,500 --> 01:45:02,420the bye-bye man well I actually get

227201:45:00,319 --> 01:45:06,729something a little more of a scarecrow

227301:45:02,420 --> 01:45:11,390type build that's always how I saw him

227401:45:06,729 --> 01:45:17,000cadaverous scarecrow type very very long

227501:45:11,390 --> 01:45:21,590and thin and stretched out long fingers

227601:45:17,000 --> 01:45:26,829I actually I never was able to sort of a

2277


01:45:21,590 --> 01:45:30,920gliese skeletal thin undernourished face

227801:45:26,829 --> 01:45:32,689but keep in mind with the the dark

227901:45:30,920 --> 01:45:35,060glasses and everything I imagine him

228001:45:32,689 --> 01:45:38,089looking almost like a living skull type

228101:45:35,060 --> 01:45:40,370face I think they they're doing

228201:45:38,090 --> 01:45:42,199something close to that I don't think

228301:45:40,369 --> 01:45:45,819they they're using the dark glasses in

228401:45:42,199 --> 01:45:46,939the film judging by that there's about a

228501:45:45,819 --> 01:45:52,210one-second

228601:45:46,939 --> 01:45:54,169view of the of the makeup artists

228701:45:52,210 --> 01:45:56,029concept if I don't know if the makeup

228801:45:54,170 --> 01:45:59,239artist designs that I guess not I guess

228901:45:56,029 --> 01:46:02,329the makeup artist just executes it but

229001:45:59,239 --> 01:46:06,500


whoever designed the by-by man seems to

229101:46:02,329 --> 01:46:09,309have designed him with a pale face that

229201:46:06,500 --> 01:46:12,609with skin that looks vaguely cracked

229301:46:09,310 --> 01:46:17,480maybe a slightly decayed or something

229401:46:12,609 --> 01:46:20,389and no no dark glasses at least that I

229501:46:17,479 --> 01:46:23,229saw again you can see for yourself in

229601:46:20,390 --> 01:46:26,660the in the trailer it's on YouTube and

229701:46:23,229 --> 01:46:28,339you're given the the just a quickest

229801:46:26,659 --> 01:46:30,710glance of him they're keeping him under

229901:46:28,340 --> 01:46:32,510wraps there's one photograph one still

230001:46:30,710 --> 01:46:35,029from the film that's been put online

230101:46:32,510 --> 01:46:36,890where he's sitting in a library I don't

230201:46:35,029 --> 01:46:39,199know what what the what the story is I

230301:46:36,890 --> 01:46:40,850guess I guess the filmmakers kept them

230401:46:39,199 --> 01:46:45,979as college students that might explain

230501:46:40,850 --> 01:46:49,220it well either way it's interesting how

230601:46:45,979 --> 01:46:51,229everybody's imagination will run wild on

230701:46:49,220 --> 01:46:53,690something like this because when it hits

230801:46:51,229 --> 01:46:56,479the big screen he's definitely going to

230901:46:53,689 --> 01:46:59,359have a persona okay that's something we

231001:46:56,479 --> 01:47:02,209could three on oh yeah and again Doug

231101:46:59,359 --> 01:47:03,649Jones is popular in his own right so

231201:47:02,210 --> 01:47:07,850he's you know this is going to become

231301:47:03,649 --> 01:47:10,099one of his characters so on that it's

231401:47:07,850 --> 01:47:14,900going to he's going to enjoy a certain

231501:47:10,100 --> 01:47:16,250degree of popularity and you know it's

231601:47:14,899 --> 01:47:18,229going to be so strange for me because

231701:47:16,250 --> 01:47:19,789this is the sort of thing where I'll

231801:47:18,229 --> 01:47:21,619


maybe I'll go to a horror convention

231901:47:19,789 --> 01:47:23,569there'll be people dressed up like that

232001:47:21,619 --> 01:47:26,539they'll cosplay that sort of thing I

232101:47:23,569 --> 01:47:28,219can't imagine that to have a story that

232201:47:26,539 --> 01:47:32,390was told by a Ouija board

232301:47:28,219 --> 01:47:34,130become a part of our culture that is I'm

232401:47:32,390 --> 01:47:35,989not saying that's going to happen it

232501:47:34,130 --> 01:47:39,469would be very exciting for me if it does

232601:47:35,988 --> 01:47:41,689but at the minimum the way the bye-bye

232701:47:39,469 --> 01:47:45,520man is going to be up there he'll he'll

232801:47:41,689 --> 01:47:48,799be joining the same group as other

232901:47:45,520 --> 01:47:51,830cinematic monsters like the grey man and

233001:47:48,800 --> 01:47:55,789I guess even Freddy Krueger and Jason

233101:47:51,829 --> 01:48:00,800and people like that more though yes

2332


01:47:55,789 --> 01:48:02,300sort of a supernatural boogeyman we have

233301:48:00,800 --> 01:48:05,630a couple minutes left with you before we

233401:48:02,300 --> 01:48:07,969go to break is there anything that you

233501:48:05,630 --> 01:48:10,250specifically asked for that should be

233601:48:07,969 --> 01:48:14,810put the movie that it's just part of

233701:48:10,250 --> 01:48:17,479this Legend and lore or did they consult

233801:48:14,810 --> 01:48:20,810you want anything like that or is it all

233901:48:17,479 --> 01:48:24,079up to them it's all it's all up to them

234001:48:20,810 --> 01:48:26,630they did everything the way they wanted

234101:48:24,079 --> 01:48:29,000to do it and again like I said if this

234201:48:26,630 --> 01:48:30,770was something and it happened to me I

234301:48:29,000 --> 01:48:34,430would be more concerned about it but

234401:48:30,770 --> 01:48:37,700this was a story that I heard and I

234501:48:34,430 --> 01:48:40,190retold and now they're going to hear it


234601:48:37,699 --> 01:48:43,219and retell it they're not going to worry

234701:48:40,189 --> 01:48:45,319so much about whether it is conveying

234801:48:43,219 --> 01:48:47,300the original message or telling the same

234901:48:45,319 --> 01:48:48,799story because that's not there that's

235001:48:47,300 --> 01:48:51,440not a better interest to do it their

235101:48:48,800 --> 01:48:55,760interest is to create as entertaining

235201:48:51,439 --> 01:48:58,339and as scary a story as possible and for

235301:48:55,760 --> 01:49:02,420my own self interest I also want them to

235401:48:58,340 --> 01:49:05,270do that because even if it's not totally

235501:49:02,420 --> 01:49:07,100accurate the more successful their movie

235601:49:05,270 --> 01:49:10,070is the more people will be interested in

235701:49:07,100 --> 01:49:12,170reading the story because I would love

235801:49:10,069 --> 01:49:14,809to get horror fans reading my books

235901:49:12,170 --> 01:49:15,119because I think they'll enjoy them and


236001:49:14,810 --> 01:49:16,710on

236101:49:15,119 --> 01:49:19,050no we hear the music playing we're gonna

236201:49:16,710 --> 01:49:20,939hop out for a break here at the top of

236301:49:19,050 --> 01:49:22,860the hour you're listening a spaced out

236401:49:20,939 --> 01:49:26,269radio I am your host Dave Scott Roberts

236501:49:22,859 --> 01:49:26,269neck is our guest we'll be right back

236601:49:30,439 --> 01:49:34,319greetings and salutations space

236701:49:32,729 --> 01:49:36,889travelers from The Chronicles of the

236801:49:34,319 --> 01:49:36,889unknown team

236901:49:37,039 --> 01:49:42,899what is Collins available I keep hearing

237001:49:40,050 --> 01:49:45,060about this thing it's a new paranormal

237101:49:42,899 --> 01:49:47,549reality TV show based right here in

237201:49:45,060 --> 01:49:49,560beautiful British Columbia Canada follow

2373


01:49:47,550 --> 01:49:51,770our team as we uncover claims of

237401:49:49,560 --> 01:49:54,690activity on the Cariboo Gold Rush trail

237501:49:51,770 --> 01:49:56,310you can also follow us here every third

237601:49:54,689 --> 01:49:57,629Monday where two members of our team

237701:49:56,310 --> 01:49:59,580will be available to answer your

237801:49:57,630 --> 01:50:01,739questions we'll give you some equipment

237901:49:59,579 --> 01:50:06,680updates and some of our experiences on

238001:50:01,739 --> 01:50:06,679the road right here on spaced out radio

238101:50:08,569 --> 01:50:12,779hi there I'm butch wachowski lead

238201:50:11,220 --> 01:50:14,699investigator with you for cop

238301:50:12,779 --> 01:50:16,500when the final Monday of every month you

238401:50:14,699 --> 01:50:19,079can visit the mean and host Dave stuff

238501:50:16,500 --> 01:50:20,399once based out radio strange days we're

238601:50:19,079 --> 01:50:21,869going to get to the heart of the matter

2387


01:50:20,399 --> 01:50:23,849when it comes to what's happening out

238801:50:21,869 --> 01:50:26,369there people are seeing and experiencing

238901:50:23,850 --> 01:50:28,289things from et contact to Bigfoot and I

239001:50:26,369 --> 01:50:30,180want to hear about it your experiences

239101:50:28,289 --> 01:50:32,729or what we investigators need to help

239201:50:30,180 --> 01:50:35,730solve these unknown mysteries so tune in

239301:50:32,729 --> 01:50:37,769at spaced-out radio.com to the final

239401:50:35,729 --> 01:50:40,919Monday of every month from Taos Keys

239501:50:37,770 --> 01:50:42,960strange days visit purple plates calm

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241101:51:13,500 --> 01:51:20,399for mind body and spirit and expect a

241201:51:17,699 --> 01:51:22,109miracle this is your medium Joanna from

241301:51:20,399 --> 01:51:23,969spaced out weekend two mediums and a

241401:51:22,109 --> 01:51:26,699large I would love it if you would come


241501:51:23,970 --> 01:51:28,380and join us with host James Tyson every

241601:51:26,699 --> 01:51:29,519other Sunday on spaced-out weekend

241701:51:28,380 --> 01:51:30,779together

241801:51:29,520 --> 01:51:32,970we will take your calls and your

241901:51:30,779 --> 01:51:35,039questions live our goal is to provide

242001:51:32,970 --> 01:51:37,020you with a positive outlook on deep

242101:51:35,039 --> 01:51:40,170questions that you may have questions

242201:51:37,020 --> 01:51:42,150regarding love relationships money or

242301:51:40,170 --> 01:51:44,899whatever else is on your mind comments

242401:51:42,149 --> 01:51:48,299check us out at spaced out radio calm

242501:51:44,899 --> 01:51:51,750have you checked out the SOR space wire

242601:51:48,300 --> 01:51:53,610at spaced out radio calm yet everyday we

242701:51:51,750 --> 01:51:55,289post the latest stories regarding the

242801:51:53,609 --> 01:51:57,630weird strange and completely


242901:51:55,289 --> 01:52:00,119unbelievable from cryptid and UFO

243001:51:57,630 --> 01:52:03,000sightings to the conspiracy world we

243101:52:00,119 --> 01:52:04,739tackle at all hi there I'm Eric Markham

243201:52:03,000 --> 01:52:07,590space our radios me

243301:52:04,739 --> 01:52:10,829the SOR space line and if you have a

243401:52:07,590 --> 01:52:15,210story I want to hear it email me at news

243501:52:10,829 --> 01:52:17,640it's face out radio.com patrolling the

243601:52:15,210 --> 01:52:19,859Pacific Northwest we are always on the

243701:52:17,640 --> 01:52:21,660lookout for the strange and unassuming

243801:52:19,859 --> 01:52:24,630stories that real people are

243901:52:21,659 --> 01:52:26,699experiencing hi I'm Vincent zooms up

244001:52:24,630 --> 01:52:29,069from Pacific North weird me and

244101:52:26,699 --> 01:52:31,079Alexandra Sullivan have teamed to bring

244201:52:29,069 --> 01:52:33,049to you those odds stories that never


244301:52:31,079 --> 01:52:35,760seem to make it into the mainstream

244401:52:33,050 --> 01:52:37,590story so weird that will leave you

244501:52:35,760 --> 01:52:39,869scratching your head wondering is this

244601:52:37,590 --> 01:52:42,060real it's as real as it gets with

244701:52:39,869 --> 01:52:43,409Pacific North weird you can watch our

244801:52:42,060 --> 01:52:46,080videos right here at spaced-out

244901:52:43,409 --> 01:52:48,180radio.com become more intimate and

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245801:53:02,010 --> 01:53:06,270outrages experience every month on

245901:53:04,590 --> 01:53:08,069spaced out radio we look into the deep

246001:53:06,270 --> 01:53:10,350and dark reports of cryptids roaming

246101:53:08,069 --> 01:53:12,840around the world with me Rob Murphy from

246201:53:10,350 --> 01:53:14,430crypto via dot us I would love it if you

246301:53:12,840 --> 01:53:16,140would join me and host Dave Scott as we

246401:53:14,430 --> 01:53:17,640delve into the most arcane stories and

246501:53:16,140 --> 01:53:19,829reports regarding creatures of the

246601:53:17,640 --> 01:53:21,480unknown my job is to hunt down the

246701:53:19,829 --> 01:53:23,519details and bring the evidence forward

246801:53:21,479 --> 01:53:25,349to you these aren't your regular Bigfoot

246901:53:23,520 --> 01:53:27,090stories I'm talking about either you can

2470


01:53:25,350 --> 01:53:29,280find out more about crypto history at

247101:53:27,090 --> 01:53:31,440spaced-out radio calm

247201:53:29,279 --> 01:53:33,969[Music]

247301:53:31,439 --> 01:53:36,729looking for a place to advertise at a

247401:53:33,970 --> 01:53:39,369very reasonable cost look no further

247501:53:36,729 --> 01:53:42,219than spaced out radio spaced out

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247701:53:42,220 --> 01:53:46,780you can click to check out our daily

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247901:53:46,779 --> 01:53:51,939the radio or our website including

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248201:53:54,760 --> 01:54:05,380competitive price each day you hear

248301:54:02,949 --> 01:54:08,199footsteps in the empty room above you

2484


01:54:05,380 --> 01:54:10,900living a rocking chair begins rocking by

248501:54:08,199 --> 01:54:13,479itself don't be afraid of the things

248601:54:10,899 --> 01:54:16,599that go bump in the night reach for

248701:54:13,479 --> 01:54:19,869spirit story box the iPhone app The

248801:54:16,600 --> 01:54:21,780Huffington Post UK called the only ghost

248901:54:19,869 --> 01:54:24,970hunting app you will ever need

249001:54:21,779 --> 01:54:27,969spirit story box the spirits are telling

249101:54:24,970 --> 01:54:30,100their stories are you listening strange

249201:54:27,970 --> 01:54:32,170creatures lurking in the night the

249301:54:30,100 --> 01:54:34,900sounds of wood knocking in the forest

249401:54:32,170 --> 01:54:37,779awed happenings right out of a fictional

249501:54:34,899 --> 01:54:40,239world these are the reports I loved hi

249601:54:37,779 --> 01:54:42,009there this is author Ronald Murphy and I

249701:54:40,239 --> 01:54:44,199would love it if he joined me and spaced


249801:54:42,010 --> 01:54:46,300out radio host Dave Scott the second

249901:54:44,199 --> 01:54:47,029Wednesday of every month on our journey

250001:54:46,300 --> 01:54:50,150in

250101:54:47,029 --> 01:54:53,179nomads of cryptozoology had spaced out

250201:54:50,149 --> 01:54:55,250radio calm from walkman to Fortnum

250301:54:53,179 --> 01:54:57,500everything in between hey they don't

250401:54:55,250 --> 01:54:59,988quote me to crypto guru for nothing

250501:54:57,500 --> 01:55:02,380find yourself constantly looking up in

250601:54:59,988 --> 01:55:04,129the sky looking for answers have you had

250701:55:02,380 --> 01:55:06,859extraterrestrial contact

250801:55:04,130 --> 01:55:09,650are you in abduction looking for answers

250901:55:06,859 --> 01:55:12,649to your experiences qaeda i marquees and

251001:55:09,649 --> 01:55:15,049phased out radios resident EP expert

251101:55:12,649 --> 01:55:17,089


join me live the first Friday of every

251201:55:15,050 --> 01:55:19,520month where I take questions and the

251301:55:17,090 --> 01:55:21,828phased out radio camera and help you

251401:55:19,520 --> 01:55:24,230understand those from the far off world

251501:55:21,828 --> 01:55:26,328it's two hours of knowledge every

251601:55:24,229 --> 01:55:27,129experience they should listen to hope to

251701:55:26,328 --> 01:55:29,808see you there

251801:55:27,130 --> 01:55:30,859did you know that spaced out radio runs

251901:55:29,809 --> 01:55:32,900seven days a week

252001:55:30,859 --> 01:55:35,420hi it's James Tyson from spaced out

252101:55:32,899 --> 01:55:37,638weekend every Saturday and Sunday night

252201:55:35,420 --> 01:55:40,520starting at 9 p.m. Pacific midnight

252301:55:37,639 --> 01:55:42,020Eastern you can join me and my guests

252401:55:40,520 --> 01:55:44,360for some great chatter about what's

252501:55:42,020 --> 01:55:45,770


going on out in the universe or even in

252601:55:44,359 --> 01:55:47,960that dark part of the basement you

252701:55:45,770 --> 01:55:49,190really don't want to go back into well

252801:55:47,960 --> 01:55:51,529let's find the answers to your

252901:55:49,189 --> 01:55:53,000experiences together to come on up to

253001:55:51,529 --> 01:55:55,250Uncle Jim Beau's cabin on the weekend

253101:55:53,000 --> 01:55:59,140for more information look us up at

253201:55:55,250 --> 01:56:02,168spaced out radio calm

253301:55:59,140 --> 01:56:02,169[Music]

253401:56:05,939 --> 01:56:10,210[Applause]

253501:56:07,899 --> 01:56:12,729would you like to connect with us on

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254201:56:26,560 --> 01:56:30,609you

254301:56:26,930 --> 01:56:30,609[Music]

254401:56:34,918 --> 01:56:40,628welcome back to space out radio tonight

254501:56:37,328 --> 01:56:43,448final hour as we kick off the new week

254601:56:40,628 --> 01:56:45,819the first full one in September tomorrow

254701:56:43,448 --> 01:56:48,609night on the show John Carlson will talk

254801:56:45,819 --> 01:56:51,728with us the paranormalist will be

254901:56:48,609 --> 01:56:55,268discussing missing time and a subject I

255001:56:51,729 --> 01:56:57,729absolutely hate but we're going there

255101:56:55,269 --> 01:57:00,958we're gonna talk about gnomes tomorrow

255201:56:57,729 --> 01:57:04,570night on spaced-out radio 9 p.m. Pacific

255301:57:00,958 --> 01:57:07,238


midnight Eastern Time if your are a

255401:57:04,569 --> 01:57:10,599spaced out radio sor space traveler bill

255501:57:07,238 --> 01:57:14,018Cardwell has set the password repugnance

255601:57:10,599 --> 01:57:16,300tonight repugnance is your password so

255701:57:14,019 --> 01:57:19,389if you're a space traveler make sure you

255801:57:16,300 --> 01:57:21,309use it wisely if you're listening on

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258001:58:07,689 --> 01:58:13,239out our latest blogs mine is on Bigfoot

258101:58:10,538 --> 01:58:15,938and of course all of our music is

258201:58:13,238 --> 01:58:19,049provided by legendary guitar god Ron

258301:58:15,939 --> 01:58:22,439bubble futsal formerly of Guns and Roses

258401:58:19,050 --> 01:58:26,229tonight we are talking with author

258501:58:22,439 --> 01:58:28,418Robert Schneck we are discussing in the

258601:58:26,229 --> 01:58:29,918last hour we discussed the bye-bye man

258701:58:28,418 --> 01:58:34,809we're gonna get into a little bit of

258801:58:29,918 --> 01:58:37,389Bigfoot and his other book the president

258901:58:34,809 --> 01:58:40,748vampire I think that one's kind of

259001:58:37,389 --> 01:58:43,239interesting Robert welcome back okay I'm

259101:58:40,748 --> 01:58:47,719ready to go oh yeah

259201:58:43,239 --> 01:58:50,239absolutely and now all my audience is

259301:58:47,720 --> 01:58:52,670going to start hammering me about gnomes


259401:58:50,239 --> 01:58:55,369because they know I cannot stand those

259501:58:52,670 --> 01:58:56,989things just can't stand them wrong well

259601:58:55,369 --> 01:58:58,640there are gnomes and there are gnomes

259701:58:56,989 --> 01:59:00,439are we talking about the ones with the

259801:58:58,640 --> 01:59:04,450bit with a little red hat stand out in

259901:59:00,439 --> 01:59:06,949your garden yes those horrible pieces

260001:59:04,449 --> 01:59:09,889you know I'll tell you the reason why

260101:59:06,949 --> 01:59:12,019and I've mentioned this a couple of

260201:59:09,890 --> 01:59:15,770times on the show I'm someone who has

260301:59:12,020 --> 01:59:17,720had a plethora of experiences that well

260401:59:15,770 --> 01:59:20,030it led me to start this show a lot of

260501:59:17,720 --> 01:59:21,770people will say nobody can have that

260601:59:20,029 --> 01:59:24,349many different experiences you've got to


260701:59:21,770 --> 01:59:26,240be making something up but I'm putting

260801:59:24,350 --> 01:59:28,160my credibility on the line here every

260901:59:26,239 --> 01:59:31,399night I do this show and that's the

261001:59:28,159 --> 01:59:33,470reason why I am doing it is because I'm

261101:59:31,399 --> 01:59:35,359like most of our listeners who are

261201:59:33,470 --> 01:59:37,130trying to find answers to the weird and

261301:59:35,359 --> 01:59:38,750strange things that has happened to them

261401:59:37,130 --> 01:59:41,390the only difference is with my radio

261501:59:38,750 --> 01:59:44,149background I have the ability to start

261601:59:41,390 --> 01:59:47,420up this show and do it in a broadcast

261701:59:44,149 --> 01:59:51,139form but a number of years ago after my

261801:59:47,420 --> 01:59:53,510first wife and I split up I had a

261901:59:51,140 --> 01:59:56,420basement suite and my landlords had

262001:59:53,510 --> 02:00:00,440


gnomes in their garden my daughter who

262101:59:56,420 --> 02:00:04,940has been very intuitive ever since she

262202:00:00,439 --> 02:00:07,099was tiny like 18 19 months old when she

262302:00:04,939 --> 02:00:11,329was saying that she was seeing things

262402:00:07,100 --> 02:00:14,090over top of her TV and it was absolutely

262502:00:11,329 --> 02:00:16,729incredible because she you know I do

262602:00:14,090 --> 02:00:18,800have to say this my my little girl she

262702:00:16,729 --> 02:00:23,029well she's not so little anymore she

262802:00:18,800 --> 02:00:25,250starts grade 12 tomorrow morning so I'm

262902:00:23,029 --> 02:00:28,939a little a little emotional over that

263002:00:25,250 --> 02:00:30,680but anyways when she was about 7 8 9

263102:00:28,939 --> 02:00:34,159years old and I lived in this basement

263202:00:30,680 --> 02:00:35,750suite a few times she actually came

263302:00:34,159 --> 02:00:37,430running into my bed and she would crawl


263402:00:35,750 --> 02:00:41,270into my bed and normally she doesn't do

263502:00:37,430 --> 02:00:44,420that and I'd be like what's matter she

263602:00:41,270 --> 02:00:47,450goes daddy you know those gnomes in the

263702:00:44,420 --> 02:00:50,359garden I said yeah she goes I heard

263802:00:47,449 --> 02:00:52,309banging on my window and it woke me up

263902:00:50,359 --> 02:00:54,769and when I went and looked through the

264002:00:52,310 --> 02:00:56,180blinds I didn't see anything but I saw

264102:00:54,770 --> 02:00:58,310the shadow of

264202:00:56,180 --> 02:01:03,880um what it looked like a little gnome

264302:00:58,310 --> 02:01:08,210running back towards the garden right

264402:01:03,880 --> 02:01:12,380you don't normally normally I would say

264502:01:08,210 --> 02:01:16,640this is childhood imagination okay but

264602:01:12,380 --> 02:01:19,069looking at my daughter my daughter is is

2647


02:01:16,640 --> 02:01:21,560someone where you know we've always

264802:01:19,069 --> 02:01:24,559believed her when she said she saw

264902:01:21,560 --> 02:01:26,960things okay we always believed that

265002:01:24,560 --> 02:01:31,880there was a we lived in a haunted house

265102:01:26,960 --> 02:01:34,460and there was a little girl in the home

265202:01:31,880 --> 02:01:36,680and there would be times Robert where

265302:01:34,460 --> 02:01:38,390you know every time before bed we would

265402:01:36,680 --> 02:01:40,789have nightly cleanup of the bedroom

265502:01:38,390 --> 02:01:43,850before we went to bed so we'd tidy up

265602:01:40,789 --> 02:01:45,979her room and from there what would

265702:01:43,850 --> 02:01:49,670happen is you'd wake I'd wake up at like

265802:01:45,979 --> 02:01:51,5007:15 the next morning and sometimes she

265902:01:49,670 --> 02:01:54,289would be awake the odd time she wouldn't

266002:01:51,500 --> 02:01:57,079be and I'd wake up in the morning for


266102:01:54,289 --> 02:01:59,859work and I'd go into her room and her

266202:01:57,079 --> 02:02:04,100room is a complete disaster and she

266302:01:59,859 --> 02:02:06,829would swear up and down that daddy I

266402:02:04,100 --> 02:02:08,960didn't make the mess I didn't make the

266502:02:06,829 --> 02:02:11,960mess you know and in in the most

266602:02:08,960 --> 02:02:16,880profound child way like she was upset

266702:02:11,960 --> 02:02:18,710about it and then one day the my

266802:02:16,880 --> 02:02:22,400daughter was at her grandma's house for

266902:02:18,710 --> 02:02:25,220night and my ex-wife and I are sitting

267002:02:22,399 --> 02:02:27,559there watching a movie downstairs and we

267102:02:25,220 --> 02:02:30,770have the two dogs or the dog with us and

267202:02:27,560 --> 02:02:32,930the two cats with us and all of a sudden

267302:02:30,770 --> 02:02:36,080we hear my daughter's door creak open

267402:02:32,930 --> 02:02:41,750


and we hear the pitter-patter of little

267502:02:36,079 --> 02:02:45,140feet running down the hall and my wife

267602:02:41,750 --> 02:02:48,170and I had a squeaky bed it was what we

267702:02:45,140 --> 02:02:50,329could afford at the time and it was you

267802:02:48,170 --> 02:02:52,850know it was comfortable but damn it was

267902:02:50,329 --> 02:02:56,439it loud and squeaky and you know how

268002:02:52,850 --> 02:03:01,190kids use mattresses as a trampoline oh

268102:02:56,439 --> 02:03:04,159yes all of a sudden we start hearing on

268202:03:01,189 --> 02:03:07,939our trampoline you know and the funny

268302:03:04,159 --> 02:03:09,920part about that was we lived in a duplex

268402:03:07,939 --> 02:03:12,109our best friends lived

268502:03:09,920 --> 02:03:15,500the other side they didn't have any

268602:03:12,109 --> 02:03:18,349paranormal activity whatsoever and it

268702:03:15,500 --> 02:03:20,840got to the point Robert where one day

268802:03:18,350 --> 02:03:22,760I'm at work in Vancouver which is an


268902:03:20,840 --> 02:03:26,659hour and a bit away from where I lived

269002:03:22,760 --> 02:03:29,119and my neighbors white or my buddies

269102:03:26,659 --> 02:03:33,500wife calls me up and says are you in the

269202:03:29,119 --> 02:03:37,039missus home and I'm like no she goes can

269302:03:33,500 --> 02:03:40,340you stop doing your thing it's really

269402:03:37,039 --> 02:03:44,529loud I said I'm in downtown Vancouver

269502:03:40,340 --> 02:03:47,600and the missus is at work so it ain't us

269602:03:44,529 --> 02:03:50,090she goes well somebody's doing something

269702:03:47,600 --> 02:03:53,000on your bed because it sounds like there

269802:03:50,090 --> 02:03:54,770is an absolute good time going on in

269902:03:53,000 --> 02:03:56,720there right and I'm keeping that as

270002:03:54,770 --> 02:03:59,840politically correct as possible as I say

270102:03:56,720 --> 02:04:02,390that but it wasn't until by getting back


270202:03:59,840 --> 02:04:03,680to the original story it wasn't until we

270302:04:02,390 --> 02:04:06,650heard the pitter-patter of little feet

270402:04:03,680 --> 02:04:08,300come out of her room that we really said

270502:04:06,649 --> 02:04:11,179well hold on a second here

270602:04:08,300 --> 02:04:14,779maybe she's onto something and we never

270702:04:11,180 --> 02:04:16,310really you know went the way other

270802:04:14,779 --> 02:04:18,769parents did well oh that's your

270902:04:16,310 --> 02:04:19,580imagination that's just your mind making

271002:04:18,770 --> 02:04:23,180up stories

271102:04:19,579 --> 02:04:27,880we knew different so when she saw those

271202:04:23,180 --> 02:04:31,159gnomes I tell you it was absolutely

271302:04:27,880 --> 02:04:33,619frightening to me just frightening to

271402:04:31,159 --> 02:04:34,970absolutely see hear her say that you

271502:04:33,619 --> 02:04:36,079know the little gnomes running by so


271602:04:34,970 --> 02:04:39,110I've hated gnomes

271702:04:36,079 --> 02:04:42,260ever since then they absolutely scared

271802:04:39,109 --> 02:04:47,210the living crap out of me I'm curious

271902:04:42,260 --> 02:04:51,619they've when when she was away it was

272002:04:47,210 --> 02:04:54,739the room messed up at all in the morning

272102:04:51,619 --> 02:04:57,769it would be or when she when she was

272202:04:54,739 --> 02:04:59,329away the room you know what I don't even

272302:04:57,770 --> 02:05:01,700remember if we had tidied it up

272402:04:59,329 --> 02:05:04,670beforehand or not and that's the mystery

272502:05:01,699 --> 02:05:06,170to me okay I was just just curious

272602:05:04,670 --> 02:05:09,050because I'll tell you that that's where

272702:05:06,170 --> 02:05:11,840I thought the story was going that that

272802:05:09,050 --> 02:05:16,090she was away and the next morning her

272902:05:11,840 --> 02:05:20,480room was still messed up no


273002:05:16,090 --> 02:05:24,079unfortunately unfortunately no

273102:05:20,479 --> 02:05:28,159so I just find it extremely funny that

273202:05:24,079 --> 02:05:31,069that you know you you sit there and you

273302:05:28,159 --> 02:05:37,130listen to what these silly gnomes are up

273402:05:31,069 --> 02:05:38,599to and oh man I honestly I get a little

273502:05:37,130 --> 02:05:41,900worked up about it Robert

273602:05:38,600 --> 02:05:44,000I hate no it's it's funny you know I've

273702:05:41,899 --> 02:05:47,449noticed some people also get very worked

273802:05:44,000 --> 02:05:50,029up over ventriloquist dummies a lot of

273902:05:47,449 --> 02:05:55,699people find them very disturbing the way

274002:05:50,029 --> 02:05:58,359people find clowns disturbing I can see

274102:05:55,699 --> 02:06:00,349that I can totally see where

274202:05:58,359 --> 02:06:01,880ventriloquist dummies would get that and

274302:06:00,350 --> 02:06:04,250you know what the popularity of things


274402:06:01,880 --> 02:06:06,619whether it's Robert the doll or Harold

274502:06:04,250 --> 02:06:08,960the Haunted doll or Annabelle or up here

274602:06:06,619 --> 02:06:10,369in the in a museum north of me in a

274702:06:08,960 --> 02:06:14,390place called quenelle they have a

274802:06:10,369 --> 02:06:16,369haunted doll called Mandy these seem to

274902:06:14,390 --> 02:06:18,590be these haunted dolls seem to be

275002:06:16,369 --> 02:06:20,539popping up absolutely everywhere and

275102:06:18,590 --> 02:06:23,150it's almost like the new nightmare of

275202:06:20,539 --> 02:06:25,250everything I mean back in my day when I

275302:06:23,149 --> 02:06:29,059was young it was only Chucky we only had

275402:06:25,250 --> 02:06:34,489to worry about Chuck well there there is

275502:06:29,060 --> 02:06:35,090also the there is the the doll I I'm

275602:06:34,489 --> 02:06:36,739sorry I

275702:06:35,090 --> 02:06:38,750you know I'm blanking out on their names


275802:06:36,739 --> 02:06:41,960the people that did the the

275902:06:38,750 --> 02:06:44,180investigation and Lorraine Warren no the

276002:06:41,960 --> 02:06:46,430Warrens yeah I think a lot of it comes

276102:06:44,180 --> 02:06:48,650from the Warrens doll the one that they

276202:06:46,430 --> 02:06:51,100keep in there the ones that she keeps in

276302:06:48,649 --> 02:06:53,719her Museum that seems to be the the

276402:06:51,100 --> 02:06:56,710origin of a lot of those and of course

276502:06:53,720 --> 02:06:59,750having things like Chucky doesn't help

276602:06:56,710 --> 02:07:01,220no not at all but at least you knew that

276702:06:59,750 --> 02:07:03,229Chucky was coming at you with the knife

276802:07:01,220 --> 02:07:06,920so you just didn't buy a Chucky doll it

276902:07:03,229 --> 02:07:11,119was very simple but everything seems to

277002:07:06,920 --> 02:07:14,510be one of these cases where we can get

2771


02:07:11,119 --> 02:07:17,899some sort of haunting you know yeah well

277202:07:14,510 --> 02:07:20,000you know folklore does change and what

277302:07:17,899 --> 02:07:22,609people consider the paranormal does

277402:07:20,000 --> 02:07:26,390change over time take something again

277502:07:22,609 --> 02:07:29,569like clowns that simply never existed

277602:07:26,390 --> 02:07:31,700before the 1980s there is nothing like

277702:07:29,569 --> 02:07:33,859that nothing even comparable to that

277802:07:31,699 --> 02:07:36,439that I know of in

277902:07:33,859 --> 02:07:40,639American folklore at least there were

278002:07:36,439 --> 02:07:45,259there was something I mean there were

278102:07:40,639 --> 02:07:47,779cases of phantoms harassing people in in

278202:07:45,260 --> 02:07:50,600my first book that the president's

278302:07:47,779 --> 02:07:54,800vampire I tell the story of the

278402:07:50,600 --> 02:07:58,039Gloucester militia which was a group of


278502:07:54,800 --> 02:08:00,020they seem to be phantom soldiers made up

278602:07:58,039 --> 02:08:02,988they they looked supposedly they look

278702:08:00,020 --> 02:08:06,889like French invaders and local Indians

278802:08:02,988 --> 02:08:10,509who were harassing the people that lived

278902:08:06,889 --> 02:08:14,359in Gloucester Massachusetts in suggests

279002:08:10,510 --> 02:08:17,239in 1692 just while the Salem witch

279102:08:14,359 --> 02:08:20,000trials were getting underway and what

279202:08:17,238 --> 02:08:22,009happened with them was they would be

279302:08:20,000 --> 02:08:24,429they would see these people and they

279402:08:22,010 --> 02:08:27,440would be chased by them or they would

279502:08:24,429 --> 02:08:28,850chase them and they would chase them

279602:08:27,439 --> 02:08:31,129through the woods they would fire at

279702:08:28,850 --> 02:08:32,989them supposedly they would even hit them

279802:08:31,130 --> 02:08:34,639sometimes they'd fall down then get up

2799


02:08:32,988 --> 02:08:37,009and run away again

280002:08:34,639 --> 02:08:39,500and the one of the odd things about

280102:08:37,010 --> 02:08:42,320these phantom militia were these phantom

280202:08:39,500 --> 02:08:44,238invaders was that they looked perfectly

280302:08:42,319 --> 02:08:47,420normal but they would run over swampy

280402:08:44,238 --> 02:08:49,189spots without leaving footprints it

280502:08:47,420 --> 02:08:52,010became so bad that they eventually

280602:08:49,189 --> 02:08:54,500called in a real militia from Ipswich

280702:08:52,010 --> 02:08:55,969and the real militia saw them out in the

280802:08:54,500 --> 02:08:58,639woods - and chased them and we're never

280902:08:55,969 --> 02:09:02,029able to catch them Cotton Mather tells

281002:08:58,639 --> 02:09:05,000the story in his book in his history of

281102:09:02,029 --> 02:09:07,519the church in America or so he tells the

281202:09:05,000 --> 02:09:10,729complete story of these these phantom


281302:09:07,520 --> 02:09:12,380invaders in they that bothered the

281402:09:10,729 --> 02:09:14,750people of Gloucester in 1692

281502:09:12,380 --> 02:09:17,690interestingly enough the main person

281602:09:14,750 --> 02:09:20,149evany czar Babson who was the first man

281702:09:17,689 --> 02:09:24,189to see one of these invaders and the one

281802:09:20,149 --> 02:09:26,689who ran into them most often he had a

281902:09:24,189 --> 02:09:29,569connection with the Salem witch trials

282002:09:26,689 --> 02:09:32,299in that his mother claimed to be

282102:09:29,569 --> 02:09:35,029bewitched and he sort of rented the

282202:09:32,300 --> 02:09:37,940girls who were well rent is not the

282302:09:35,029 --> 02:09:40,429right word he he borrowed them from the

282402:09:37,939 --> 02:09:42,799people of Salem Village and Salem and he

282502:09:40,429 --> 02:09:44,449had them come down to Gloucester to see

282602:09:42,800 --> 02:09:46,760


if they could see the witches that were

282702:09:44,448 --> 02:09:47,509tormenting his mother and of course they

282802:09:46,760 --> 02:09:49,880claim they Coe

282902:09:47,510 --> 02:09:51,440there was almost another witch trial in

283002:09:49,880 --> 02:09:54,019Kloster because of this but I don't

283102:09:51,439 --> 02:09:56,750think it ever it's ever really developed

283202:09:54,019 --> 02:09:58,760into anything important so that's the

283302:09:56,750 --> 02:10:01,010closest thing I can think of at least an

283402:09:58,760 --> 02:10:03,170American folklore to something like the

283502:10:01,010 --> 02:10:06,139clowns and I know there have been other

283602:10:03,170 --> 02:10:09,618similar phantom invaders Spring Heeled

283702:10:06,139 --> 02:10:11,179Jack type invaders I have a chapter on

283802:10:09,618 --> 02:10:12,948that in the book too that one of them

283902:10:11,179 --> 02:10:16,788that appeared in Baltimore Maryland


284002:10:12,948 --> 02:10:18,828in the 1950s there are similar things to

284102:10:16,788 --> 02:10:21,259that so there are there oh there are

284202:10:18,828 --> 02:10:23,029always phantoms but phantom clowns that

284302:10:21,260 --> 02:10:26,449was unusual especially ones driving

284402:10:23,029 --> 02:10:29,649bands now you've also had an intriguing

284502:10:26,448 --> 02:10:33,828interest over the years in Bigfoot I

284602:10:29,649 --> 02:10:35,388have always loved Bigfoot I think like I

284702:10:33,828 --> 02:10:36,979said if I lived in your part of the

284802:10:35,389 --> 02:10:39,109country that would be what I would

284902:10:36,979 --> 02:10:42,589concentrate on when I was little the

285002:10:39,109 --> 02:10:46,058whole idea of a giant hairy animal a

285102:10:42,590 --> 02:10:50,719giant hairy monster or a giant hairy

285202:10:46,059 --> 02:10:52,880primate living still existing in the in

285302:10:50,719 --> 02:10:55,819


North America that was actually being

285402:10:52,880 --> 02:10:58,340seen by people and they were running

285502:10:55,819 --> 02:11:00,380into him that I was so intrigued by that

285602:10:58,340 --> 02:11:04,130I read every book that came out at the

285702:11:00,380 --> 02:11:06,730time now keep in mind I'm 52 so this

285802:11:04,130 --> 02:11:09,230would have been in the there was a whole

285902:11:06,729 --> 02:11:11,419I don't know if this was the same in

286002:11:09,229 --> 02:11:15,609Canada but in the United States there

286102:11:11,420 --> 02:11:18,109was a real upsurge in interest in

286202:11:15,609 --> 02:11:20,649cryptozoology it was I guess it was a

286302:11:18,109 --> 02:11:24,288little it was a minor Golden Age of it

286402:11:20,649 --> 02:11:28,009where you had people like Rene to Hindon

286502:11:24,288 --> 02:11:30,559and John Green and Ivan Sanderson and

286602:11:28,010 --> 02:11:33,199all these people were seriously going


286702:11:30,559 --> 02:11:36,079after it this was no nonsense this these

286802:11:33,198 --> 02:11:37,549were not these were not hoaxsters these

286902:11:36,078 --> 02:11:40,219were not people that were trying to make

287002:11:37,550 --> 02:11:42,920a cute TV show or get ratings

287102:11:40,219 --> 02:11:43,849these are serious researchers some so

287202:11:42,920 --> 02:11:49,578serious that they were actually

287302:11:43,849 --> 02:11:51,710disagreeable like Renee - Hinda but you

287402:11:49,578 --> 02:11:54,018know the idea that these men were taking

287502:11:51,710 --> 02:11:56,480it so seriously just fascinated me and

287602:11:54,019 --> 02:11:58,670again if I had lived in your part of the

287702:11:56,479 --> 02:12:00,439world there is no doubt in my mind that

287802:11:58,670 --> 02:12:04,039I would have been out there looking as

287902:12:00,439 --> 02:12:06,649looking for looking for Bigfoot it would

288002:12:04,039 --> 02:12:08,510


have just been too much for me of course

288102:12:06,649 --> 02:12:11,089living where I am in northern New Jersey

288202:12:08,510 --> 02:12:14,180we have our we have our own monsters but

288302:12:11,090 --> 02:12:16,039nothing that seems as real as Bigfoot

288402:12:14,180 --> 02:12:18,590because there was simply no reason why I

288502:12:16,039 --> 02:12:21,050think what couldn't live there you know

288602:12:18,590 --> 02:12:23,600there were questions about whether that

288702:12:21,050 --> 02:12:25,340the local the local forest could produce

288802:12:23,600 --> 02:12:27,289the right kind of food for something

288902:12:25,340 --> 02:12:29,180like that and I understand all those

289002:12:27,289 --> 02:12:30,590questions although to my mind any place

289102:12:29,180 --> 02:12:34,400where a bear can live why couldn't a

289202:12:30,590 --> 02:12:35,840Bigfoot but yeah that's that's for

289302:12:34,399 --> 02:12:37,989another day and I just don't know the


289402:12:35,840 --> 02:12:40,430subject well enough to argue it but

289502:12:37,989 --> 02:12:42,800again that's always been one of my

289602:12:40,430 --> 02:12:44,480fascinations which is why when you told

289702:12:42,800 --> 02:12:47,779me that you had two sightings I had to

289802:12:44,479 --> 02:12:49,879ask you to tell me the story well my two

289902:12:47,779 --> 02:12:54,019sightings happen at the exact same time

290002:12:49,880 --> 02:12:57,050and in September of 2013 so um jeez were

290102:12:54,020 --> 02:12:58,010like I think it was around the 10th so

290202:12:57,050 --> 02:13:01,579we're almost at the three year

290302:12:58,010 --> 02:13:03,770anniversary of that friend of mine owned

290402:13:01,579 --> 02:13:08,989ten acres in the backwoods of the town I

290502:13:03,770 --> 02:13:11,060I lived in and the property at that time

290602:13:08,989 --> 02:13:13,699had been in his family about 41 years

2907


02:13:11,060 --> 02:13:15,860and and he took me back into the forest

290802:13:13,699 --> 02:13:19,489behind his property and he's like I want

290902:13:15,859 --> 02:13:21,439to show you something because back then

291002:13:19,489 --> 02:13:23,840they're like there's trails in there but

291102:13:21,439 --> 02:13:26,479it's not like a hiking trail or mountain

291202:13:23,840 --> 02:13:27,920biking or motorcycling or ATVing it's

291302:13:26,479 --> 02:13:30,469not that type like this is a very

291402:13:27,920 --> 02:13:32,600private area that kind of eventually

291502:13:30,470 --> 02:13:35,930connects with the mountain ranges here

291602:13:32,600 --> 02:13:38,900in the Pacific Coast and excuse me did

291702:13:35,930 --> 02:13:41,510was it was it an animal trail yeah you

291802:13:38,899 --> 02:13:45,679could pretty much call it that okay but

291902:13:41,510 --> 02:13:47,030a worn out one okay like and he in the

292002:13:45,680 --> 02:13:48,860story goes and I'll give you the long


292102:13:47,029 --> 02:13:52,039version here the story goes we were

292202:13:48,859 --> 02:13:53,869walking back there because back when he

292302:13:52,039 --> 02:13:55,189was about 10 11 years old him and his

292402:13:53,869 --> 02:13:57,769friend were playing cowboys and Indians

292502:13:55,189 --> 02:13:59,000in the forest and all this and they kind

292602:13:57,770 --> 02:14:00,920of caught each other and they're like

292702:13:59,000 --> 02:14:02,449hey what do we want to do and I've

292802:14:00,920 --> 02:14:03,890actually talked to the friend as well

292902:14:02,449 --> 02:14:07,159and he's like God is my witness this

293002:14:03,890 --> 02:14:08,630happened and they were kind of standing

293102:14:07,159 --> 02:14:10,579there kind of looking at each other like

293202:14:08,630 --> 02:14:12,940do we could walk back to the farm now or

293302:14:10,579 --> 02:14:14,769do we just continue on hanging out

293402:14:12,939 --> 02:14:16,809because I guess maybe it was getting to

2935


02:14:14,770 --> 02:14:18,730lunchtime or dinnertime I don't know the

293602:14:16,810 --> 02:14:20,650circumstance and they were standing

293702:14:18,729 --> 02:14:24,029about two three feet apart by a tree

293802:14:20,649 --> 02:14:29,549when all of a sudden they heard and

293902:14:24,029 --> 02:14:35,590smack the in the tree was an old school

294002:14:29,550 --> 02:14:40,539rock headed arrow like wow that a Native

294102:14:35,590 --> 02:14:44,319American or First Nations soldier would

294202:14:40,539 --> 02:14:46,329use not soldier but Indian would use way

294302:14:44,319 --> 02:14:47,829back in the day and when this thing

294402:14:46,329 --> 02:14:49,869passed between them they looked at each

294502:14:47,829 --> 02:14:52,238other looked at the arrow and they went

294602:14:49,869 --> 02:14:55,539running and they were probably six seven

294702:14:52,238 --> 02:14:58,539hundred yards from the entry point to

294802:14:55,539 --> 02:15:00,310the farm and and my friend I remember

294902:14:58,539 --> 02:15:03,939


him telling me he goes I've never ran

295002:15:00,310 --> 02:15:07,480that fast in my life so they actually

295102:15:03,939 --> 02:15:10,000went back and the arrow was gone you

295202:15:07,479 --> 02:15:12,069know but they remember seeing the actual

295302:15:10,000 --> 02:15:14,500feather that it was a rock arrow it

295402:15:12,069 --> 02:15:17,439wasn't like a fiberglass or or whatever

295502:15:14,500 --> 02:15:19,630they are using today you know or well I

295602:15:17,439 --> 02:15:22,329mean he's a couple of years older than

295702:15:19,630 --> 02:15:24,310me so if you go back 40 years maybe you

295802:15:22,329 --> 02:15:26,140know I don't even know what kind of wood

295902:15:24,310 --> 02:15:28,390maybe bamboo or something along those

296002:15:26,140 --> 02:15:31,239lines I'm not too sure what kind cuz I'm

296102:15:28,390 --> 02:15:33,850not really up in the archery but but a

296202:15:31,238 --> 02:15:37,089factory-made absolutely it was nothing


296302:15:33,850 --> 02:15:40,930factory made that I could tell it was

296402:15:37,090 --> 02:15:43,600not a mass-produced arrow no so we ended

296502:15:40,930 --> 02:15:46,630up anyways he wanted to show me where

296602:15:43,600 --> 02:15:48,160this incident happened and as we're

296702:15:46,630 --> 02:15:52,480walking along the trail were probably

296802:15:48,159 --> 02:15:54,279300 350 yards from the entry to the farm

296902:15:52,479 --> 02:15:57,218so we're pretty getting pretty deep into

297002:15:54,279 --> 02:15:59,679the forest and we come across this tree

297102:15:57,219 --> 02:16:02,350that is snapped at about eight feet high

297202:15:59,680 --> 02:16:04,719and this is a big tree like it's

297302:16:02,350 --> 02:16:06,969probably round round about probably 18

297402:16:04,719 --> 02:16:10,029inches around so a pretty pretty solid

297502:16:06,969 --> 02:16:12,279tree and the bark is still wet like this

297602:16:10,029 --> 02:16:14,590is fresh we hadn't had any thunderstorms


297702:16:12,279 --> 02:16:16,509or wind storms or anything that would

297802:16:14,590 --> 02:16:19,840push us down there was no rotting on the

297902:16:16,510 --> 02:16:21,969tree nothing and I remember saying to

298002:16:19,840 --> 02:16:25,869him you know because I was just getting

298102:16:21,969 --> 02:16:26,770into all all of this you know because my

298202:16:25,869 --> 02:16:29,289happily boring

298302:16:26,770 --> 02:16:31,690life had come to an end just a year and

298402:16:29,289 --> 02:16:33,940a half two years previous to this with

298502:16:31,689 --> 02:16:36,670my own experiences and we were we were

298602:16:33,940 --> 02:16:41,219standing around I said you know Bigfoot

298702:16:36,670 --> 02:16:43,629has been known to knock down trees and

298802:16:41,218 --> 02:16:47,439so we just kind of looking around doing

298902:16:43,629 --> 02:16:49,449our very unscientific you know type of

299002:16:47,440 --> 02:16:52,030research on this and just thinking how


299102:16:49,450 --> 02:16:53,820weird it was and we all of a sudden got

299202:16:52,030 --> 02:16:57,010the feeling that we were being watched

299302:16:53,819 --> 02:16:58,659and so we started looking around because

299402:16:57,010 --> 02:17:01,030there are bears in the area there are

299502:16:58,659 --> 02:17:02,829Cougars in the area and neither of us

299602:17:01,030 --> 02:17:04,960had pepper spray and nobody carries a

299702:17:02,829 --> 02:17:08,440gun up here into the forest you know at

299802:17:04,959 --> 02:17:10,479least this close to town and so we

299902:17:08,440 --> 02:17:12,040started looking around and it about a

300002:17:10,479 --> 02:17:15,579hundred feet right in front of us which

300102:17:12,040 --> 02:17:19,150would have been due north in the shadows

300202:17:15,579 --> 02:17:25,510of this tree we see this face sticking

300302:17:19,149 --> 02:17:28,659out from behind this tree and I kind of

300402:17:25,510 --> 02:17:30,069


look and I said do you see that and my

300502:17:28,659 --> 02:17:32,049friend says what are you looking at so I

300602:17:30,069 --> 02:17:33,519pointed to him and you could make out

300702:17:32,049 --> 02:17:35,979the face and then all the sudden the

300802:17:33,519 --> 02:17:37,510face pulled in behind the trunk and then

300902:17:35,979 --> 02:17:38,979you could just see the shoulder and then

301002:17:37,510 --> 02:17:41,559the face would come out again and you

301102:17:38,979 --> 02:17:43,959would see you could see the eyes and you

301202:17:41,558 --> 02:17:46,268know or where the eyes would be in the

301302:17:43,959 --> 02:17:48,789mouth and the in the nose and I said I

301402:17:46,269 --> 02:17:50,800think that's a Bigfoot and we watched it

301502:17:48,790 --> 02:17:53,559for about five minutes and it would it

301602:17:50,799 --> 02:17:55,149would tuck its head out or in behind the

301702:17:53,558 --> 02:17:56,529trunk of the tree and then it would come


301802:17:55,149 --> 02:17:58,058out and it would look and then at one

301902:17:56,530 --> 02:18:01,030point we'd only see the right shoulder

302002:17:58,058 --> 02:18:03,939sticking out and we're like this is kind

302102:18:01,030 --> 02:18:06,099of cool so after about five minutes we

302202:18:03,940 --> 02:18:08,019just kind of went you know as silly as

302302:18:06,099 --> 02:18:09,250it sounded you don't even think and I

302402:18:08,019 --> 02:18:10,450laugh at these people who say well I

302502:18:09,250 --> 02:18:11,558would have grabbed a picture I would

302602:18:10,450 --> 02:18:14,679have done this I would have done that

302702:18:11,558 --> 02:18:17,558you just don't do that you're not even

302802:18:14,679 --> 02:18:20,170thinking about it and at a hundred feet

302902:18:17,558 --> 02:18:22,119on an iPhone you're not gonna see

303002:18:20,170 --> 02:18:25,329anything anyways you're just gonna see a

303102:18:22,120 --> 02:18:27,790tree so we were watching this and we


303202:18:25,329 --> 02:18:29,968decide to turn around and you know being

303302:18:27,790 --> 02:18:32,320that we're kind of spiritual people

303402:18:29,968 --> 02:18:33,759literally we waved at it we said we're

303502:18:32,319 --> 02:18:36,610gonna thank you for showing us we're

303602:18:33,760 --> 02:18:38,829gonna we're going to leave you alone now

303702:18:36,610 --> 02:18:40,600and we're just gonna continue on so I

303802:18:38,829 --> 02:18:43,120start

303902:18:40,600 --> 02:18:46,659and I'm turning to my right to go back

304002:18:43,120 --> 02:18:49,600down the path when at about 85 feet so

304102:18:46,659 --> 02:18:51,909if this first Bigfoot is at midnight the

304202:18:49,600 --> 02:18:54,819second one is about 1:00 1:30 on the

304302:18:51,909 --> 02:18:57,430clock but at about 85 feet so it's

304402:18:54,819 --> 02:19:00,399closer and what caught my attention to


304502:18:57,430 --> 02:19:01,960that was I saw this branch shaking

304602:19:00,399 --> 02:19:04,449vigorously you know like almost like

304702:19:01,959 --> 02:19:06,969you're trying to knock some nuts off a

304802:19:04,450 --> 02:19:09,130tree branch or cherries or apples or

304902:19:06,969 --> 02:19:11,859whatever you just shake that branch like

305002:19:09,129 --> 02:19:14,769vigorously mm-hmm and I stopped and I

305102:19:11,860 --> 02:19:16,930looked and that's where I saw the second

305202:19:14,770 --> 02:19:19,720one walk right through where that branch

305302:19:16,930 --> 02:19:21,909was shaking I had this thing I got a

305402:19:19,719 --> 02:19:24,550full right profile of it from the waist

305502:19:21,909 --> 02:19:25,629on up so I didn't see the hands but I

305602:19:24,550 --> 02:19:28,719did see the arm

305702:19:25,629 --> 02:19:32,619I saw the waist I saw the back I saw the

305802:19:28,719 --> 02:19:34,959head you know it never looked at me but


305902:19:32,620 --> 02:19:38,200this thing was barrel-chested

306002:19:34,959 --> 02:19:41,259like it I'm gonna say it looked to me to

306102:19:38,200 --> 02:19:44,350be at least 350 400 pounds like large

306202:19:41,260 --> 02:19:47,229and there was no neck it went straight

306302:19:44,350 --> 02:19:49,750from shoulders to head and it was kind

306402:19:47,229 --> 02:19:51,819of a pointy head with the face kind of

306502:19:49,750 --> 02:19:53,440slanting down and then it walked right

306602:19:51,819 --> 02:19:55,539through those trees and it was gone and

306702:19:53,440 --> 02:19:57,610the brown color it was almost like a

306802:19:55,540 --> 02:20:01,150reddish brown but more Brown than red

306902:19:57,610 --> 02:20:04,480like a cinnamon bear yeah absolutely and

307002:20:01,149 --> 02:20:05,050it was beautiful it was absolutely

307102:20:04,479 --> 02:20:06,550beautiful

307202:20:05,050 --> 02:20:07,899you know I think you're the first person


307302:20:06,550 --> 02:20:11,560I've ever heard say that it was

307402:20:07,899 --> 02:20:14,379beautiful I don't know how else to

307502:20:11,560 --> 02:20:18,129describe it you mean like you know just

307602:20:14,379 --> 02:20:24,129like majestic like it was just one of

307702:20:18,129 --> 02:20:26,289those situations where when it happens

307802:20:24,129 --> 02:20:30,310in front of you you want to take it all

307902:20:26,290 --> 02:20:32,500in uh-huh I didn't feel any fear neither

308002:20:30,310 --> 02:20:34,840did my friend we never felt any fear

308102:20:32,500 --> 02:20:37,569when we saw this he never saw the second

308202:20:34,840 --> 02:20:41,409one I saw the second one he saw the

308302:20:37,569 --> 02:20:45,029first one with me we never felt any fear

308402:20:41,409 --> 02:20:49,209but we did feel that it was time to go

308502:20:45,030 --> 02:20:51,761huh and there's a fine line to be drawn

3086


02:20:49,209 --> 02:20:53,640in between those Robert yeah yeah I'm

308702:20:51,761 --> 02:20:56,761curious did did it

308802:20:53,640 --> 02:20:58,501feel normal I mean like if you had been

308902:20:56,761 --> 02:20:59,131in the woods and you'd seen an elk or

309002:20:58,501 --> 02:21:02,399something

309102:20:59,130 --> 02:21:05,581would it have felt any more bizarre than

309202:21:02,399 --> 02:21:06,569seeing an elk or a bear no it would have

309302:21:05,581 --> 02:21:09,030felt normal

309402:21:06,569 --> 02:21:12,060okay this thing it felt as normal as

309502:21:09,030 --> 02:21:14,131that no this this felt different because

309602:21:12,060 --> 02:21:16,261you have to realize Robert you're seeing

309702:21:14,130 --> 02:21:19,739something that's not supposed to exist

309802:21:16,261 --> 02:21:22,229right to the most Reed's look also it's

309902:21:19,739 --> 02:21:26,101looking at you the first one yes the

310002:21:22,229 --> 02:21:28,020


second one no right but you're when

310102:21:26,101 --> 02:21:32,730you're looking at something that isn't

310202:21:28,021 --> 02:21:37,230supposed to exist it sends your mind for

310302:21:32,729 --> 02:21:42,239a loop yeah and what's funny is in that

310402:21:37,229 --> 02:21:43,770same forest less than a year later so

310502:21:42,239 --> 02:21:46,860that was September so October November

310602:21:43,771 --> 02:21:50,341December January February March April

310702:21:46,860 --> 02:21:53,730May so we're looking at eight months

310802:21:50,341 --> 02:21:57,149later April sorry seven months later in

310902:21:53,729 --> 02:22:00,859that same forest is when I came

311002:21:57,149 --> 02:22:00,859face-to-face with an extraterrestrial

311102:22:01,011 --> 02:22:08,101this area sounds unusual oh it's I I

311202:22:06,030 --> 02:22:12,601wish my friend never had to sell the

311302:22:08,101 --> 02:22:15,150property because there is a never mind a


311402:22:12,601 --> 02:22:17,791book there is a movie a documentary a

311502:22:15,149 --> 02:22:21,029scientific experiment to be there the

311602:22:17,790 --> 02:22:24,630amount of UFOs the extraterrestrial

311702:22:21,030 --> 02:22:26,521contact the Bigfoot contact across the

311802:22:24,630 --> 02:22:29,310street in the forest there was something

311902:22:26,521 --> 02:22:32,159vicious in there that was spiritually

312002:22:29,310 --> 02:22:35,370just really unkind like this was it was

312102:22:32,159 --> 02:22:37,649like the portal of all portals on this

312202:22:35,370 --> 02:22:40,649property it was like you're was a local

312302:22:37,649 --> 02:22:44,040skinwalker ranch kind of thing kind of

312402:22:40,649 --> 02:22:47,370but without the evil on it ranch it was

312502:22:44,040 --> 02:22:48,999you know the farm that we call it it was

312602:22:47,370 --> 02:22:51,270protected

312702:22:48,001 --> 02:22:54,841uh-huh but the weird things that just

3128


02:22:51,271 --> 02:22:59,360happened there and in behind you know it

312902:22:54,841 --> 02:23:01,621was absolutely amazing you know and I

313002:22:59,360 --> 02:23:05,489don't know if I'll ever have that

313102:23:01,620 --> 02:23:07,349experience again you know but if I get a

313202:23:05,489 --> 02:23:10,549chance to see Bigfoot again

313302:23:07,350 --> 02:23:15,059I definitely know what what I will do

313402:23:10,549 --> 02:23:19,340which is what I'll just stand there and

313502:23:15,059 --> 02:23:21,898watch yeah I can understand that and I

313602:23:19,340 --> 02:23:24,869will try and get as close to it as

313702:23:21,898 --> 02:23:26,579possible because there's a couple things

313802:23:24,869 --> 02:23:31,050I learned from this I have a lot of

313902:23:26,579 --> 02:23:33,779First Nations friends up here and the

314002:23:31,049 --> 02:23:35,459first thing I would probably do if I'm

314102:23:33,779 --> 02:23:37,619going on a Bigfoot searches I would

3142


02:23:35,459 --> 02:23:41,608bring tobacco with me along with some

314302:23:37,619 --> 02:23:43,319sort of offering berries like

314402:23:41,609 --> 02:23:45,899strawberries blueberries raspberries

314502:23:43,318 --> 02:23:48,420something along those lines First

314602:23:45,898 --> 02:23:52,170Nations a peace offering to anything

314702:23:48,420 --> 02:23:55,500that is spiritual is tobacco so I would

314802:23:52,170 --> 02:23:56,728definitely bring tobacco with me and I

314902:23:55,500 --> 02:23:58,619would I would go from there

315002:23:56,728 --> 02:24:00,840but here's the interesting part to my

315102:23:58,619 --> 02:24:04,109story and I forgot to mention this to

315202:24:00,840 --> 02:24:05,760you about four or five days later we

315302:24:04,109 --> 02:24:07,559were doing we would do nightly perimeter

315402:24:05,760 --> 02:24:10,100walks a couple times a week around there

315502:24:07,559 --> 02:24:13,590just to see what we could pick up and


315602:24:10,100 --> 02:24:16,260this is where my opinion a Bigfoot

315702:24:13,590 --> 02:24:18,478actually changed to where you know

315802:24:16,260 --> 02:24:19,949normal people who go out there and

315902:24:18,478 --> 02:24:22,438research they think we're looking for

316002:24:19,949 --> 02:24:25,880Gigantopithecus or or some sort of

316102:24:22,439 --> 02:24:29,010ape-like creature I don't believe that I

316202:24:25,879 --> 02:24:31,438think it's similar but I don't believe

316302:24:29,010 --> 02:24:33,059that because in my experience up here

316402:24:31,439 --> 02:24:36,270the First Nations people they tend to

316502:24:33,059 --> 02:24:38,609believe with Bigfoot that it is a

316602:24:36,270 --> 02:24:42,540shape-shifter and/or an interdimensional

316702:24:38,609 --> 02:24:45,899being and to me that seemed really

316802:24:42,540 --> 02:24:47,729sci-fi but four days or five days after

316902:24:45,898 --> 02:24:49,500this sighting we were doing a perimeter


317002:24:47,728 --> 02:24:51,118walk around their house trying to see

317102:24:49,500 --> 02:24:53,809what kind of spirits were playing around

317202:24:51,119 --> 02:24:56,909that night and there were four of us and

317302:24:53,809 --> 02:24:58,528we came across from the back of the

317402:24:56,908 --> 02:25:02,430house we were walking to the front of

317502:24:58,529 --> 02:25:06,359the house and we got about halfway along

317602:25:02,430 --> 02:25:08,250the house and I said if I said to the

317702:25:06,359 --> 02:25:08,880group I said it feels like we're being

317802:25:08,250 --> 02:25:10,529followed

317902:25:08,879 --> 02:25:14,129I feel like I'm being were being

318002:25:10,529 --> 02:25:16,079followed and the lady in the group says

318102:25:14,129 --> 02:25:18,778yeah I'm kind of getting that feeling

318202:25:16,079 --> 02:25:19,350too the other two were not so we turned

318302:25:18,779 --> 02:25:22,680


in

318402:25:19,350 --> 02:25:24,359look behind us and behind the house they

318502:25:22,680 --> 02:25:28,139had this old cherry tree that probably

318602:25:24,359 --> 02:25:31,500stood 20-30 feet high and at the bottom

318702:25:28,139 --> 02:25:33,358left of this cherry tree from the ground

318802:25:31,500 --> 02:25:37,189to about 810 feet high

318902:25:33,359 --> 02:25:41,488there was this pixelation that was

319002:25:37,189 --> 02:25:43,139hanging around there you know you know

319102:25:41,488 --> 02:25:44,818like much like on television when they

319202:25:43,139 --> 02:25:47,099pixelate someone's face so you can't

319302:25:44,818 --> 02:25:48,448recognize them sure that's yeah it looks

319402:25:47,100 --> 02:25:50,790like I saw it

319502:25:48,449 --> 02:25:53,939the lady with us saw it the other two

319602:25:50,790 --> 02:25:55,350did not and the other two being

319702:25:53,939 --> 02:25:56,970


frustrated they said well let's continue

319802:25:55,350 --> 02:25:58,829our walk we're not seeing anything in

319902:25:56,969 --> 02:26:00,809our like pixelation right there

320002:25:58,829 --> 02:26:03,750pixelation right right

320102:26:00,809 --> 02:26:05,879we walked another 20 seconds to get into

320202:26:03,750 --> 02:26:07,889the front of the house and as we walk to

320302:26:05,879 --> 02:26:13,469the front of the house that's when we

320402:26:07,889 --> 02:26:17,818heard the roar from behind us to me the

320502:26:13,469 --> 02:26:22,590pixelation along with the roar is way

320602:26:17,818 --> 02:26:25,079too coincidental to say that there's a

320702:26:22,590 --> 02:26:27,090Gigantopithecus and this is a you know

320802:26:25,079 --> 02:26:29,969as I've said on this show many a time

320902:26:27,090 --> 02:26:33,000Roger or Robert pardon me there is a big

321002:26:29,969 --> 02:26:35,908difference between what it could be in

321102:26:33,000 --> 02:26:39,600my opinion and what I like to call

321202:26:35,908 --> 02:26:41,340Caucasian Christian Science which is if

321302:26:39,600 --> 02:26:42,899it's not part of the five senses and

321402:26:41,340 --> 02:26:48,420what we know on this earth it doesn't

321502:26:42,898 --> 02:26:50,010exist well you know it's interesting I

321602:26:48,420 --> 02:26:54,090don't know if you're familiar with

321702:26:50,010 --> 02:26:58,619Jonathan Downes and his Center for 40 in

321802:26:54,090 --> 02:27:04,590zoology in in in the United Kingdom but

321902:26:58,619 --> 02:27:08,130John John has always been a very much

322002:27:04,590 --> 02:27:10,559takes the straight scientific view on

322102:27:08,129 --> 02:27:16,019cryptids they are flesh-and-blood

322202:27:10,559 --> 02:27:18,000animals we are going to well you know I

322302:27:16,020 --> 02:27:19,649shouldn't say that I shouldn't talk for

322402:27:18,000 --> 02:27:21,029somebody else John's always been a

3225


02:27:19,648 --> 02:27:23,849little open to the fact that some of

322602:27:21,029 --> 02:27:26,460these things might be different that

322702:27:23,850 --> 02:27:27,960they are things like owl man and stuff

322802:27:26,459 --> 02:27:29,549like that because he has looked into

322902:27:27,959 --> 02:27:31,559those stories but he always takes a

323002:27:29,549 --> 02:27:32,159scientific approach as possible

323102:27:31,559 --> 02:27:34,079where

323202:27:32,159 --> 02:27:36,500when he's in doing an investigations

323302:27:34,079 --> 02:27:39,930well if you remember a few years back

323402:27:36,500 --> 02:27:45,629there were a number of Bigfoot sightings

323502:27:39,930 --> 02:27:52,680in Great Britain and the idea that there

323602:27:45,629 --> 02:27:55,379could be a a large primate living wild

323702:27:52,680 --> 02:27:58,079in Great Britain's just it just seemed

323802:27:55,379 --> 02:28:01,229so utterly absurd but it was kind of


323902:27:58,079 --> 02:28:03,360fascinating because here were people

324002:28:01,229 --> 02:28:05,609giving accounts that were just as

324102:28:03,360 --> 02:28:08,239reasonable as anything that somebody

324202:28:05,610 --> 02:28:10,891might have happen in a place like

324302:28:08,239 --> 02:28:14,549Northern California or Oregon or British

324402:28:10,890 --> 02:28:17,149Columbia so John went out with a bunch

324502:28:14,549 --> 02:28:20,909of the people that he worked with and

324602:28:17,149 --> 02:28:25,199they were at this lake where sightings

324702:28:20,909 --> 02:28:29,719were occurring and John saw something

324802:28:25,200 --> 02:28:33,780that he simply could not describe it was

324902:28:29,719 --> 02:28:37,709the way he described it was it was like

325002:28:33,780 --> 02:28:43,620the outline of a Bigfoot done it almost

325102:28:37,709 --> 02:28:47,669as a cartoon and absolutely flat but he

325202:28:43,620 --> 02:28:52,460watched it move between he wants to


move

325302:28:47,670 --> 02:28:56,420he watched it walk and the experience

325402:28:52,459 --> 02:29:01,020bothered him so much because it was so

325502:28:56,420 --> 02:29:02,579unnatural that it actually he actually

325602:29:01,021 --> 02:29:04,561ended up talking to Loren Coleman about

325702:29:02,579 --> 02:29:06,959it because I called him from England

325802:29:04,560 --> 02:29:09,989because it had upset him so much and

325902:29:06,959 --> 02:29:11,250Loren tends to take a very you know

326002:29:09,989 --> 02:29:15,750straightforward

326102:29:11,250 --> 02:29:17,430mammal a primatology approach to these

326202:29:15,750 --> 02:29:19,079things but even you know even he

326302:29:17,430 --> 02:29:22,739acknowledged that some of this stuff is

326402:29:19,079 --> 02:29:24,149very strange and it overlaps you know

326502:29:22,739 --> 02:29:26,640one of the things I actually wanted to


326602:29:24,149 --> 02:29:29,670ask you about this place was whether

326702:29:26,640 --> 02:29:33,629there had been any terrible crimes there

326802:29:29,670 --> 02:29:35,610over the years just out of curiosity we

326902:29:33,629 --> 02:29:38,369had a shaman come in who is a friend of

327002:29:35,610 --> 02:29:41,700a bunch of us who hung out together and

327102:29:38,370 --> 02:29:44,140when she came in and she was very

327202:29:41,700 --> 02:29:46,840intuitive as well when she came in

327302:29:44,139 --> 02:29:50,978kind of felt the property she could feel

327402:29:46,840 --> 02:29:52,658a ton of First Nation spirit like dozens

327502:29:50,978 --> 02:29:54,760of First Nation spirits and she actually

327602:29:52,658 --> 02:29:56,829picked up she was walking through the

327702:29:54,760 --> 02:29:59,710back field and she was like okay here's

327802:29:56,829 --> 02:30:02,318the teepee here is where they had a fire

327902:29:59,709 --> 02:30:04,929


going and this is where they would go

328002:30:02,318 --> 02:30:06,818look for four deer because it was up on

328102:30:04,930 --> 02:30:07,689a mountain so there wasn't any fishing

328202:30:06,818 --> 02:30:11,079closeby

328302:30:07,689 --> 02:30:14,949and so she had everything kind of coming

328402:30:11,079 --> 02:30:16,959to her as we kind of spoke with it so

328502:30:14,949 --> 02:30:21,010there was a lot of First Nations area

328602:30:16,959 --> 02:30:24,778and in that area back in the 1800's and

328702:30:21,010 --> 02:30:28,8981700s going previous to that there was

328802:30:24,779 --> 02:30:34,658you know if you went another I'm gonna

328902:30:28,898 --> 02:30:37,228say 10 miles west that's where there was

329002:30:34,658 --> 02:30:41,469a lot of battle area of First Nations

329102:30:37,228 --> 02:30:45,250when the bands from the Vancouver Island

329202:30:41,469 --> 02:30:47,590would come in to the mainland and the


329302:30:45,250 --> 02:30:51,040war and they would fight you know to the

329402:30:47,590 --> 02:30:53,770death in these great Indian battles you

329502:30:51,040 --> 02:30:56,470know that would happen and so there's a

329602:30:53,770 --> 02:30:59,470lot of First Nations type energy around

329702:30:56,469 --> 02:31:02,469the the entire town in the entire area

329802:30:59,469 --> 02:31:03,789so the whole bow and arrow thing right

329902:31:02,469 --> 02:31:06,579at the beginning when I told that story

330002:31:03,790 --> 02:31:09,069yeah that was total sense to me that was

330102:31:06,579 --> 02:31:10,449quite a start to the story I mean but

330202:31:09,068 --> 02:31:13,299you know what what are the things that's

330302:31:10,449 --> 02:31:15,430so interesting is the idea of you know

330402:31:13,299 --> 02:31:18,670John keel talked about window areas

330502:31:15,430 --> 02:31:21,430where strange things happen and of

330602:31:18,670 --> 02:31:22,960


course though his main the main one he

330702:31:21,430 --> 02:31:26,139was interested in was Point Pleasant

330802:31:22,959 --> 02:31:28,539West Virginia but judging to if you take

330902:31:26,139 --> 02:31:31,269the Cillian point of view this area

331002:31:28,540 --> 02:31:33,460sounds very similar III asked about

331102:31:31,270 --> 02:31:35,140whether there were any terrible crimes

331202:31:33,459 --> 02:31:37,599or something in there or anything like

331302:31:35,139 --> 02:31:39,340that in the area because one of the

331402:31:37,600 --> 02:31:43,270aspects of Bigfoot that I find

331502:31:39,340 --> 02:31:46,988interesting is this a occasional and

331602:31:43,270 --> 02:31:50,529it's only occasional but this occasional

331702:31:46,988 --> 02:31:53,930contact or let's say association between

331802:31:50,529 --> 02:31:56,779Bigfoot and truly horrific crimes

331902:31:53,930 --> 02:31:59,600of which there are two that that always

332002:31:56,779 --> 02:32:01,640


stick in my mind and one of them I

332102:31:59,600 --> 02:32:04,460actually found it was the very first

332202:32:01,639 --> 02:32:06,439thing I ever had published on the

332302:32:04,459 --> 02:32:09,769strange and paranormal or strange but

332402:32:06,439 --> 02:32:13,670true and that involved a series of

332502:32:09,770 --> 02:32:16,579sightings that were reported by the mass

332602:32:13,670 --> 02:32:20,809murderer Charles Starkweather when he

332702:32:16,579 --> 02:32:22,398was be when he was awaiting execution he

332802:32:20,809 --> 02:32:24,978was given a notebook and asked to fill

332902:32:22,398 --> 02:32:27,260it it'll just a write his life story and

333002:32:24,978 --> 02:32:29,688one of the things he wrote about was

333102:32:27,260 --> 02:32:32,210that when he was young growing up in

333202:32:29,689 --> 02:32:35,930Lincoln Nebraska he would see this

333302:32:32,209 --> 02:32:36,818figure outside his window and he said it

3334


02:32:35,930 --> 02:32:40,760was female

333502:32:36,818 --> 02:32:43,129but the drawing of it that he made is

333602:32:40,760 --> 02:32:46,279just an outline but it was this massive

333702:32:43,129 --> 02:32:49,039I'm sorry it looks like it looked like a

333802:32:46,279 --> 02:32:52,238silhouette of a Bigfoot and he said it

333902:32:49,040 --> 02:32:57,380would let out these horrific screams and

334002:32:52,238 --> 02:33:01,250for him this figure was was a living it

334102:32:57,379 --> 02:33:03,469was a represented death and now you can

334202:33:01,250 --> 02:33:06,738look at that two ways here is somebody

334302:33:03,469 --> 02:33:10,398who grew up to be a mass murderer maybe

334402:33:06,738 --> 02:33:14,139that's the way he interprets something

334502:33:10,398 --> 02:33:17,420that somebody with a less a less

334602:33:14,139 --> 02:33:21,108depraved outlook might not see that way

334702:33:17,420 --> 02:33:22,969but he did there was this association


334802:33:21,109 --> 02:33:26,149and no one had ever no one had ever

334902:33:22,969 --> 02:33:28,549interpreted stark weathers account

335002:33:26,148 --> 02:33:30,559though the way I did there and I just

335102:33:28,549 --> 02:33:33,738I've always been interested in that and

335202:33:30,559 --> 02:33:36,799of course later on after I wrote that it

335302:33:33,738 --> 02:33:39,619turned out that a serial killer at

335402:33:36,799 --> 02:33:42,709Yosemite called Kerry stainer claimed

335502:33:39,620 --> 02:33:45,620that he had had had more than one

335602:33:42,709 --> 02:33:47,478encounter with a Bigfoot so I have

335702:33:45,620 --> 02:33:50,329always had this there's this little

335802:33:47,478 --> 02:33:55,188thread of association between Bigfoot

335902:33:50,329 --> 02:34:00,260and these awful crimes I mean really

336002:33:55,189 --> 02:34:04,040some depraved stuff that I I guess it's

336102:34:00,260 --> 02:34:07,728


kind of an antidote to the Bigfoot is

336202:34:04,040 --> 02:34:09,890the Bigfoot is a wonderful nay

336302:34:07,728 --> 02:34:11,688your spirit kind of a thing there is

336402:34:09,889 --> 02:34:16,969another aspect of it that I had that I

336502:34:11,689 --> 02:34:19,248think is worth considering it is an

336602:34:16,969 --> 02:34:21,379interesting story indeed because I know

336702:34:19,248 --> 02:34:24,170what the Patterson Gimlin film being to

336802:34:21,379 --> 02:34:25,849me the only real true film of Bigfoot

336902:34:24,170 --> 02:34:30,920out there even though it's 50 years old

337002:34:25,850 --> 02:34:33,408mm-hmm it's amazing how that video is

337102:34:30,920 --> 02:34:36,498still scrutinized half a century later

337202:34:33,408 --> 02:34:38,538as much as it is it's scrutinized more

337302:34:36,498 --> 02:34:40,969than the Zapruder film for JFK's

337402:34:38,539 --> 02:34:42,529assassination yeah I don't think they've


337502:34:40,969 --> 02:34:45,108ever had done a stabilization of the

337602:34:42,529 --> 02:34:47,840Zapruder film just now now that you

337702:34:45,109 --> 02:34:49,818mention it I'll be I'll be honest with

337802:34:47,840 --> 02:34:52,158you I have been going back and forth

337902:34:49,818 --> 02:34:54,139about the Patterson Gimlin film my

338002:34:52,158 --> 02:34:56,359entire life you know when I was little

338102:34:54,139 --> 02:34:59,599the very first time I saw it I'm sure

338202:34:56,359 --> 02:35:01,340was on the TV show in search of narrated

338302:34:59,600 --> 02:35:02,689by Leonard Nimoy I am sure that is the

338402:35:01,340 --> 02:35:07,420first time I saw the Patterson Gimlin

338502:35:02,689 --> 02:35:10,398film and I thought that looks real and

338602:35:07,420 --> 02:35:14,270then as time went on I would get more I

338702:35:10,398 --> 02:35:15,799would get more I would doubt it because

338802:35:14,270 --> 02:35:19,158the whole thing just seemed so


338902:35:15,799 --> 02:35:22,309improbably I mean why would this be the

339002:35:19,158 --> 02:35:24,859only decent film that ever came out and

339102:35:22,309 --> 02:35:27,889then of course the stabilization came

339202:35:24,859 --> 02:35:30,800along and you had people who were who

339302:35:27,889 --> 02:35:33,469were studying it and people that knew a

339402:35:30,799 --> 02:35:36,379lot more than I did who said it really

339502:35:33,469 --> 02:35:38,929does seem to be the the large dimensions

339602:35:36,379 --> 02:35:40,969that were described and you know the the

339702:35:38,930 --> 02:35:43,729limbs don't bend the way a human limb

339802:35:40,969 --> 02:35:46,278can possibly bend and then the

339902:35:43,728 --> 02:35:49,099stabilization came along and those look

340002:35:46,279 --> 02:35:51,439like toes I mean those look like real

340102:35:49,100 --> 02:35:53,689living feet at the same time then

340202:35:51,439 --> 02:35:57,229


somebody else will look at it and say no

340302:35:53,689 --> 02:35:58,639that's so obviously a fake that it's I

340402:35:57,228 --> 02:36:02,420don't know I still don't know what to

340502:35:58,639 --> 02:36:04,340make of it although my my heart says

340602:36:02,420 --> 02:36:06,469that thing's real and that's that's

340702:36:04,340 --> 02:36:09,920really all I can say about it is that I

340802:36:06,469 --> 02:36:13,908believe it because it just seems so real

340902:36:09,920 --> 02:36:16,699to me it looks like an animal the hair

341002:36:13,908 --> 02:36:18,350moves like an animal to me it's like if

341102:36:16,699 --> 02:36:20,230somebody has to bear to run across a

341202:36:18,350 --> 02:36:23,739field on its hind legs it would

341302:36:20,229 --> 02:36:25,511no less real than that again I I don't

341402:36:23,739 --> 02:36:28,060write much about Bigfoot I've written

341502:36:25,511 --> 02:36:29,739the the little thing I mentioned about


341602:36:28,060 --> 02:36:32,560Charles Starkweather and I've also

341702:36:29,739 --> 02:36:36,250written probably the largest piece I did

341802:36:32,560 --> 02:36:39,011on Bigfoot was I tried to put a new

341902:36:36,250 --> 02:36:44,220perspective on a canyon which is the

342002:36:39,011 --> 02:36:47,801famous siege of the miners in by

342102:36:44,220 --> 02:36:53,079renowned st. Helens in 1924 I think it

342202:36:47,800 --> 02:36:57,069was and for me a you know the the main

342302:36:53,079 --> 02:36:58,931guy at least as far as the history of

342402:36:57,069 --> 02:37:01,931Bigfoot is concerned the main guy

342502:36:58,931 --> 02:37:04,961involved was named Fred Beck who was the

342602:37:01,931 --> 02:37:06,370minor and prospector and mainly he

342702:37:04,960 --> 02:37:07,840worked in the lumber industry like so

342802:37:06,370 --> 02:37:12,820many people do in that part of the

342902:37:07,841 --> 02:37:14,381country and he wrote a book about it


343002:37:12,819 --> 02:37:15,130called I fought the eight men of Mount

343102:37:14,380 --> 02:37:17,289st. Helens

343202:37:15,130 --> 02:37:21,130now I thought the eight men of Mount st.

343302:37:17,290 --> 02:37:24,311Helens has always been has always been

343402:37:21,130 --> 02:37:25,779the people's in the the Bigfoot people

343502:37:24,310 --> 02:37:29,079have always had mixed feelings about it

343602:37:25,780 --> 02:37:31,271because the first two page of the first

343702:37:29,079 --> 02:37:33,431three pages or so is a fairly

343802:37:31,271 --> 02:37:36,431straightforward account of what they say

343902:37:33,431 --> 02:37:39,040happened that is that the men were up

344002:37:36,431 --> 02:37:43,271there digging a mine what they thought

344102:37:39,040 --> 02:37:46,990was going to be a gold mine and they saw

344202:37:43,271 --> 02:37:49,631a hairy bigfoot-type creature fired at

344302:37:46,989 --> 02:37:53,190


it and were attacked that night in their

344402:37:49,630 --> 02:37:55,119cabin where stones were thrown and

344502:37:53,190 --> 02:37:59,230apparently the things were walking

344602:37:55,120 --> 02:38:01,690around on the roof and they and whatever

344702:37:59,229 --> 02:38:07,270those things were they knocked one of

344802:38:01,690 --> 02:38:09,011the one of the mmm it's they weren't

344902:38:07,271 --> 02:38:10,870tree trunks they were squared off but I

345002:38:09,011 --> 02:38:13,181guess the square root of tree trunk he

345102:38:10,870 --> 02:38:15,671not the cell he not the filler between

345202:38:13,181 --> 02:38:17,500them and so they could see they could

345302:38:15,671 --> 02:38:20,229see these creatures supposedly running

345402:38:17,500 --> 02:38:21,819around outside and they fired at them

345502:38:20,229 --> 02:38:23,409during the night and it was it was

345602:38:21,819 --> 02:38:25,300frightening experience they left the

345702:38:23,409 --> 02:38:27,880


next day leaving hundreds of dollars

345802:38:25,300 --> 02:38:30,760worth of mining equipment and abandoning

345902:38:27,880 --> 02:38:32,680their abandoned their claim and the

346002:38:30,761 --> 02:38:33,578story became part of the local folklore

346102:38:32,681 --> 02:38:35,319it

346202:38:33,578 --> 02:38:37,538eventually that the area which had been

346302:38:35,318 --> 02:38:41,228called long Canyon was renamed eighth

346402:38:37,539 --> 02:38:45,609Canyon and again it became part of local

346502:38:41,228 --> 02:38:47,769folklore then in the 1950s when Bigfoot

346602:38:45,609 --> 02:38:50,379research really got started

346702:38:47,770 --> 02:38:52,359Fred Beck became one of the people that

346802:38:50,379 --> 02:38:54,249you interviewed when you were when you

346902:38:52,359 --> 02:38:57,129were studying Bigfoot so with people

347002:38:54,248 --> 02:38:58,689like Peter Byrne and John Green they


347102:38:57,129 --> 02:39:01,539they all interviewed they all

347202:38:58,689 --> 02:39:02,619interviewed him but he when he wrote

347302:39:01,539 --> 02:39:05,319that booklet

347402:39:02,619 --> 02:39:08,469I thought the eight men you learned an

347502:39:05,318 --> 02:39:10,269awful lot about Fred Beck and what you

347602:39:08,468 --> 02:39:14,468learned was first of all he was a

347702:39:10,270 --> 02:39:17,168spiritualist and Fred Beck actually had

347802:39:14,468 --> 02:39:19,178two Bigfoot sightings he had had a much

347902:39:17,168 --> 02:39:21,638earlier one when he was working at a

348002:39:19,179 --> 02:39:24,789lumber camp with his brother and he saw

348102:39:21,638 --> 02:39:26,559something from the tent that his brother

348202:39:24,789 --> 02:39:28,359always claimed was a bear and that Fred

348302:39:26,559 --> 02:39:30,278Beck said no that was not a bear and

348402:39:28,359 --> 02:39:33,429then of course he later had the


348502:39:30,279 --> 02:39:35,738sightings at a canyon but what most

348602:39:33,429 --> 02:39:38,529people don't realize about Fred Beck and

348702:39:35,738 --> 02:39:41,798the other miners is that they were

348802:39:38,529 --> 02:39:44,918finding the they were looking for gold

348902:39:41,799 --> 02:39:48,339not in the standard way they were using

349002:39:44,918 --> 02:39:50,888seances and summoning spirits in order

349102:39:48,338 --> 02:39:53,318to find gold and what they did was they

349202:39:50,888 --> 02:39:56,618summoned they they came into the Conte

349302:39:53,318 --> 02:39:58,238the game in contact with this spirit who

349402:39:56,619 --> 02:40:00,549shot an arrow into the air and they

349502:39:58,238 --> 02:40:02,618followed this spirit arrow over hills

349602:40:00,549 --> 02:40:04,239and then it came down on the ground and

349702:40:02,619 --> 02:40:06,998that that's where they were told to dig

349802:40:04,238 --> 02:40:12,298and that was the gold mine they were


349902:40:06,998 --> 02:40:16,689working on and when they began to hear

350002:40:12,299 --> 02:40:18,789whistling in the hills at night and they

350102:40:16,689 --> 02:40:20,949felt they were just on the verge of

350202:40:18,789 --> 02:40:24,789finding gold when they had the

350302:40:20,949 --> 02:40:27,069frightening experience with the attack

350402:40:24,789 --> 02:40:32,020by the Bigfoot and they and they fled

350502:40:27,068 --> 02:40:33,728now again it's it becomes a odder story

350602:40:32,020 --> 02:40:35,949especially when you really read the

350702:40:33,728 --> 02:40:40,599pamphlet and you realize that Fred Beck

350802:40:35,949 --> 02:40:43,779was so interested in spiritualism and he

350902:40:40,599 --> 02:40:45,418did not believe that Bigfoot were normal

351002:40:43,779 --> 02:40:46,550animals he felt that they were

351102:40:45,418 --> 02:40:48,709interdimensional

351202:40:46,549 --> 02:40:52,129creatures that would that they were they

3513


02:40:48,709 --> 02:40:54,438came from a lower spiritual plane than

351402:40:52,129 --> 02:40:56,358human beings did that they were

351502:40:54,439 --> 02:40:58,729attracted by the mining they thought it

351602:40:56,359 --> 02:41:01,460was interesting or they were just he

351702:40:58,728 --> 02:41:05,209actually felt that since humans were

351802:41:01,459 --> 02:41:07,699superior to Bigfoot that they would they

351902:41:05,209 --> 02:41:09,619were attracted to humans too because we

352002:41:07,700 --> 02:41:12,530have a natural attraction to whatever is

352102:41:09,620 --> 02:41:15,079superior to us was was from his

352202:41:12,530 --> 02:41:16,960perspective the way it worked so that

352302:41:15,079 --> 02:41:19,969was one of the reasons why they

352402:41:16,959 --> 02:41:22,188materialized in our plane on the

352502:41:19,969 --> 02:41:24,769material plane of existence keep in mind

352602:41:22,189 --> 02:41:29,389this is not unusual this is a pretty


352702:41:24,770 --> 02:41:31,250straightforward spiritualist critique of

352802:41:29,389 --> 02:41:33,019how something like Bigfoot might work

352902:41:31,250 --> 02:41:36,290and and of course you know Fred Beck

353002:41:33,020 --> 02:41:38,810went further saying he did not think

353102:41:36,290 --> 02:41:41,450that anyone would ever catch a Bigfoot

353202:41:38,809 --> 02:41:44,568because if you killed them or trapped

353302:41:41,450 --> 02:41:48,439one it would somehow go back into its

353402:41:44,568 --> 02:41:51,019own dimension so the we would never we

353502:41:48,439 --> 02:41:53,030might find foots foot prints we might

353602:41:51,020 --> 02:41:54,680find droppings because as long as they

353702:41:53,030 --> 02:41:57,290were materialized they had to eat and

353802:41:54,680 --> 02:41:59,210live and drink like normal animals but

353902:41:57,290 --> 02:42:00,979then when they D materialized however or

3540


02:41:59,209 --> 02:42:03,978why ever that would happen they would

354102:42:00,978 --> 02:42:06,228return to their own plane but one of the

354202:42:03,978 --> 02:42:09,799things I found so interesting about the

354302:42:06,228 --> 02:42:13,789story of a canyon is was the way it

354402:42:09,799 --> 02:42:17,358resembled traditional treasure hunting

354502:42:13,790 --> 02:42:20,780stories now it's not widely known but

354602:42:17,359 --> 02:42:22,609there is a long tradition of magical

354702:42:20,780 --> 02:42:25,729treasure hunting in the United States

354802:42:22,609 --> 02:42:29,989where people who might be very

354902:42:25,728 --> 02:42:34,010respectable would go out at night with a

355002:42:29,989 --> 02:42:38,930book of spells and a sword and some

355102:42:34,010 --> 02:42:39,620shovels and they would look for buried

355202:42:38,930 --> 02:42:41,720treasure

355302:42:39,620 --> 02:42:43,970because buried treasure was believed to

3554


02:42:41,719 --> 02:42:47,349be all over the country in the early

355502:42:43,969 --> 02:42:49,579years of this of this country and

355602:42:47,350 --> 02:42:52,760usually there would be a local legend

355702:42:49,579 --> 02:42:56,209about pirate gold or Tories fleeing the

355802:42:52,760 --> 02:42:58,880revolution at hidden gold or American

355902:42:56,209 --> 02:43:00,169Indians had put together there was a

356002:42:58,879 --> 02:43:02,930there'd be a pile of

356102:43:00,170 --> 02:43:05,540things like I don't know what what

356202:43:02,931 --> 02:43:07,370whatever they would value maybe precious

356302:43:05,540 --> 02:43:10,311gems or something like that would be

356402:43:07,370 --> 02:43:16,011piled up and even gnomes speaking of

356502:43:10,310 --> 02:43:17,390gnomes in fact the there were there was

356602:43:16,011 --> 02:43:20,601a belief that gnomes would pile up

356702:43:17,390 --> 02:43:23,209treasure underground and they would use

356802:43:20,601 --> 02:43:26,210


one of the ways to find gold that say a

356902:43:23,209 --> 02:43:29,359dowsing rod or something similar to that

357002:43:26,209 --> 02:43:32,479and they would find a spot to dig they

357102:43:29,360 --> 02:43:34,489would then cast spell draw a circle

357202:43:32,479 --> 02:43:37,689around to them to protect them from the

357302:43:34,489 --> 02:43:39,979spirits that were supposed to watch over

357402:43:37,690 --> 02:43:41,810buried treasure usually malevolent

357502:43:39,979 --> 02:43:44,689spirits that's the old story about how

357602:43:41,810 --> 02:43:47,449how Pirates would kill one of the men in

357702:43:44,690 --> 02:43:49,069a treasure party so that his ghost would

357802:43:47,450 --> 02:43:51,261haunt the treasure and would drive away

357902:43:49,069 --> 02:43:52,761anyone else who tried to steal it from

358002:43:51,261 --> 02:43:54,470them that's probably the best known

358102:43:52,761 --> 02:43:57,979version of that but it was widely


358202:43:54,470 --> 02:44:00,199believed that buried treasure gold mines

358302:43:57,979 --> 02:44:03,619things like that were all protected by

358402:44:00,200 --> 02:44:06,440demons monsters and ghosts so what they

358502:44:03,620 --> 02:44:09,561would do is they would cast their spell

358602:44:06,440 --> 02:44:12,801and it would keep the keep the monsters

358702:44:09,560 --> 02:44:15,649away as long as they didn't speak if

358802:44:12,800 --> 02:44:17,569someone spoke had broke the spell they

358902:44:15,649 --> 02:44:20,539were no longer protected and they ran

359002:44:17,569 --> 02:44:22,039away well one of the things I found so

359102:44:20,540 --> 02:44:24,591interesting about that was the

359202:44:22,040 --> 02:44:27,771similarities between Fred Beck's story

359302:44:24,591 --> 02:44:31,489where they used they conjured spirits

359402:44:27,771 --> 02:44:34,400the spirits led them to treasure they if

359502:44:31,489 --> 02:44:36,920you if you Rico into a more detail in


359602:44:34,399 --> 02:44:40,069what Beck wrote he talks about how a

359702:44:36,920 --> 02:44:42,829good feeling had prevailed but one of

359802:44:40,069 --> 02:44:44,449the men spoke when they were searched

359902:44:42,829 --> 02:44:46,579when they were following that arrow that

360002:44:44,450 --> 02:44:48,801was leading them to the gold mine he

360102:44:46,579 --> 02:44:50,690spoke and he cursed the spirits for

360202:44:48,800 --> 02:44:53,420leading them on a wild goose chase and

360302:44:50,690 --> 02:44:55,250Fred Beck felt that they have lost the

360402:44:53,420 --> 02:44:57,920spiritual protection that they had

360502:44:55,250 --> 02:45:01,550enjoyed up until that point because they

360602:44:57,920 --> 02:45:03,440had been prospecting but via seances for

360702:45:01,550 --> 02:45:04,850a long time out in the woods and they

360802:45:03,440 --> 02:45:08,630had but they had never felt vulnerable

360902:45:04,851 --> 02:45:10,761before so here they were they were just


361002:45:08,629 --> 02:45:13,429on the verge he thought they were just

361102:45:10,761 --> 02:45:15,529on the verge of coming to the goal

361202:45:13,430 --> 02:45:17,720and just as they reach the gold that's

361302:45:15,529 --> 02:45:20,329when these monsters attack them that's

361402:45:17,719 --> 02:45:22,219when these protective spirits attacked

361502:45:20,329 --> 02:45:24,529them and drove them away from their gold

361602:45:22,219 --> 02:45:26,238so they had to abandon everything and

361702:45:24,529 --> 02:45:28,149were left with nothing just the way the

361802:45:26,238 --> 02:45:30,648traditional treasure hunters were

361902:45:28,148 --> 02:45:33,439strangely enough that same year is also

362002:45:30,648 --> 02:45:35,988the same year that Albert Ostman was out

362102:45:33,439 --> 02:45:37,579looking for a gold mine when he got

362202:45:35,988 --> 02:45:39,529carried off by when he claimed he got

362302:45:37,579 --> 02:45:42,889carried off by a family of Bigfoot and


362402:45:39,529 --> 02:45:46,850had to escape and that incident happened

362502:45:42,889 --> 02:45:49,369about oh geez I'm gonna say 250 miles

362602:45:46,850 --> 02:45:52,100from where I am right now oh it was

362702:45:49,370 --> 02:45:55,010something outlet Toba Toba inlet was

362802:45:52,100 --> 02:45:58,850that raised Toba Inlet yeah that's right

362902:45:55,010 --> 02:46:00,770so in 1924 two men who were out two

363002:45:58,850 --> 02:46:02,510people who were but one group and one

363102:46:00,770 --> 02:46:08,560individual that went out looking for

363202:46:02,510 --> 02:46:11,809gold were had there had their their

363302:46:08,559 --> 02:46:15,340expeditions canceled by Bigfoot and if

363402:46:11,809 --> 02:46:18,559you look there is this little bit of

363502:46:15,340 --> 02:46:21,189relation that there are some connections

363602:46:18,559 --> 02:46:24,409between Bigfoot and gold mines

363702:46:21,189 --> 02:46:26,359


throughout the throughout Bigfoot lore

363802:46:24,409 --> 02:46:28,039now that that's not unusual considering

363902:46:26,359 --> 02:46:30,949how much gold mining went on in the

364002:46:28,040 --> 02:46:32,899Pacific Northwest but if there are other

364102:46:30,949 --> 02:46:35,420examples of it in other parts of the

364202:46:32,898 --> 02:46:40,010country where there is a connection made

364302:46:35,420 --> 02:46:44,540between Bigfoots and gold mines it's not

364402:46:40,010 --> 02:46:48,170as obvious as you get in the story of a

364502:46:44,540 --> 02:46:52,729canyon when there is literally summoning

364602:46:48,170 --> 02:46:54,859spirits and not casting spells in the

364702:46:52,728 --> 02:46:59,028way in the traditional sense but in the

364802:46:54,859 --> 02:47:01,250idea of these of men having these good

364902:46:59,029 --> 02:47:04,579thoughts sort of a good sort of a spirit

365002:47:01,250 --> 02:47:07,100good spiritual vibrations and finally


365102:47:04,579 --> 02:47:07,969they drew they they they ruined it

365202:47:07,100 --> 02:47:10,399themselves

365302:47:07,969 --> 02:47:12,500the way traditional treasure hunters

365402:47:10,398 --> 02:47:15,019would speak and break the spell and

365502:47:12,500 --> 02:47:18,920suddenly they became vulnerable to the

365602:47:15,020 --> 02:47:20,720to the protective the protecting demon

365702:47:18,920 --> 02:47:22,639or monster which drove them from the

365802:47:20,719 --> 02:47:25,869site anyway it's just something that I I

365902:47:22,639 --> 02:47:25,869found very interesting

366002:47:26,290 --> 02:47:30,910I think some of I think your listeners

366102:47:28,271 --> 02:47:36,150might find they those connections guys

366202:47:30,909 --> 02:47:38,430surprising I think the whole story is

366302:47:36,149 --> 02:47:43,959absolutely incredible when you look at

366402:47:38,430 --> 02:47:46,290the patterson-gimlin film what gives it


366502:47:43,959 --> 02:47:49,629up for you where you can say Robert I

366602:47:46,290 --> 02:47:51,880believe this is real you know there's

366702:47:49,629 --> 02:47:54,609once there's one scene where it's just

366802:47:51,879 --> 02:47:57,129walking away and it's not the scene

366902:47:54,610 --> 02:48:01,030where it turns it's the see words just

367002:47:57,129 --> 02:48:04,479walking away and it looks so natural it

367102:48:01,030 --> 02:48:06,550doesn't look like anything that was put

367202:48:04,479 --> 02:48:09,279together you know I read Greg Long's

367302:48:06,549 --> 02:48:12,399book on where he tried to debunk the

367402:48:09,280 --> 02:48:14,440film and I was not convinced I I thought

367502:48:12,399 --> 02:48:16,809actually that Greg long seen by the

367602:48:14,440 --> 02:48:19,480truly unpleasant person and that had

367702:48:16,809 --> 02:48:22,539nothing to do with the with the with

367802:48:19,479 --> 02:48:25,119debunking the film it just struck me


367902:48:22,540 --> 02:48:27,960that and made made reading it the book

368002:48:25,120 --> 02:48:31,060kind of an unpleasant experience but I

368102:48:27,959 --> 02:48:34,989never got the feeling looking at some of

368202:48:31,059 --> 02:48:37,689those those stills that that looked fake

368302:48:34,989 --> 02:48:39,521and I know this is not true I know this

368402:48:37,690 --> 02:48:41,409doesn't mean anything but I have watched

368502:48:39,521 --> 02:48:43,530every Bigfoot film that's ever come out

368602:48:41,409 --> 02:48:48,069and none of them looked as real as that

368702:48:43,530 --> 02:48:50,470what made it real for me and I am

368802:48:48,069 --> 02:48:54,940convinced on this and I will argue this

368902:48:50,469 --> 02:48:57,189point with anybody if it is a suit there

369002:48:54,940 --> 02:49:01,210is no way whoever created a suit is

369102:48:57,190 --> 02:49:04,510going to put a pair of breasts on that

3692


02:49:01,209 --> 02:49:07,869Sasquatch and that's a female sasquatch

369302:49:04,510 --> 02:49:09,969and nobody is going to take the time if

369402:49:07,870 --> 02:49:12,579they're going to grab a gorilla suit

369502:49:09,969 --> 02:49:15,039from you know make one or grab one from

369602:49:12,579 --> 02:49:17,139a costume store they're not going to put

369702:49:15,040 --> 02:49:19,660a pair of boobs on it well the only

369802:49:17,139 --> 02:49:21,819reason I can think of why let's say it

369902:49:19,659 --> 02:49:23,920was a hoax let's just say for the sake

370002:49:21,819 --> 02:49:25,479of argument dogs was that they were

370102:49:23,920 --> 02:49:30,129trying to get it to look like that

370202:49:25,479 --> 02:49:32,670female sasquatch that was seen by row on

370302:49:30,129 --> 02:49:36,239mic amount n' you know that was I think

370402:49:32,670 --> 02:49:39,6109:37 was that right something like that

370502:49:36,239 --> 02:49:40,600where it couldn't have been that early


370602:49:39,610 --> 02:49:43,060couldn't have been that it must have

370702:49:40,600 --> 02:49:46,500been 57 or something like that where he

370802:49:43,060 --> 02:49:49,629gave that very detailed description of

370902:49:46,500 --> 02:49:51,700what he got this creature that was just

371002:49:49,629 --> 02:49:53,920sitting there eating leaves and the

371102:49:51,700 --> 02:49:57,760drawing of it that was later made the

371202:49:53,920 --> 02:49:59,440breasts are very pronounced but I just

371302:49:57,760 --> 02:50:01,420don't see it well let me ask you

371402:49:59,440 --> 02:50:03,521something Dave when he was walking away

371502:50:01,420 --> 02:50:06,129when you saw it walk away did it feel

371602:50:03,521 --> 02:50:09,610like that the figure in the Patterson

371702:50:06,129 --> 02:50:12,969Gimlin film I wish I would have seen the

371802:50:09,610 --> 02:50:16,350lakes I wish I would have seen the legs

371902:50:12,969 --> 02:50:20,379


I mean seeing the only the upper torso

372002:50:16,350 --> 02:50:22,630was incredible I mean you know I'm not

372102:50:20,379 --> 02:50:28,149gonna sit here and say that that I saw

372202:50:22,629 --> 02:50:30,060something you know trying you know the

372302:50:28,149 --> 02:50:32,500hair was flowing or whatever like that

372402:50:30,060 --> 02:50:37,810because it wasn't I didn't like either

372502:50:32,500 --> 02:50:41,379right you know my friend we are almost

372602:50:37,810 --> 02:50:43,629out of time this oh how to bring you

372702:50:41,379 --> 02:50:44,649back on because we got another book we

372802:50:43,629 --> 02:50:47,619need to talk about the president's

372902:50:44,649 --> 02:50:50,170vampire Oh weird stories so oh we have

373002:50:47,620 --> 02:50:52,570to do that my friend we will we will can

373102:50:50,170 --> 02:50:56,110I mention one thing absolutely people

373202:50:52,569 --> 02:50:59,409that want to reach me can reach me at my


373302:50:56,110 --> 02:51:03,819facebook page which is called historian

373402:50:59,409 --> 02:51:05,409of the strange I I post something odd or

373502:51:03,819 --> 02:51:09,879offbeat they're usually from old

373602:51:05,409 --> 02:51:12,789newspapers every day and anyone and I

373702:51:09,879 --> 02:51:15,189and I write down when I'm appearing on

373802:51:12,790 --> 02:51:17,680radio shows and giving lectures and

373902:51:15,190 --> 02:51:20,200things like that so if you want to reach

374002:51:17,680 --> 02:51:22,360me or send me a note you can give

374102:51:20,200 --> 02:51:23,771historian if estranged alike and if you

374202:51:22,360 --> 02:51:26,890like my books I'd appreciate a good

374302:51:23,771 --> 02:51:28,570Amazon review and our audience will

374402:51:26,889 --> 02:51:30,430definitely give that you know what it's

374502:51:28,569 --> 02:51:32,799absolutely a pleasure Robert to get you

374602:51:30,430 --> 02:51:35,500on this show again we definitely have to


374702:51:32,799 --> 02:51:38,289do it again you hold on my friend I got

374802:51:35,500 --> 02:51:41,370to wrap this thing up because is that

374902:51:38,290 --> 02:51:43,590time and unfortunately my date

375002:51:41,370 --> 02:51:47,130career kicks back in tomorrow after the

375102:51:43,590 --> 02:51:50,489long weekend so I got to do that as well

375202:51:47,129 --> 02:51:53,549so you hold on spaced out radio tomorrow

375302:51:50,489 --> 02:51:55,500night we will have John Carlson on we're

375402:51:53,549 --> 02:51:58,469gonna talk about everything from missing

375502:51:55,500 --> 02:52:00,510time to them damn garden gnomes that are

375602:51:58,469 --> 02:52:02,939gonna come alive I don't know where they

375702:52:00,510 --> 02:52:05,880are coming alive but we're gonna discuss

375802:52:02,940 --> 02:52:07,290it tomorrow night it is absolutely great


375902:52:05,879 --> 02:52:09,179that all of you joined us in the

376002:52:07,290 --> 02:52:11,311revolution radio chat room in the space

376102:52:09,180 --> 02:52:14,430out radio chat room on Spreaker and of

376202:52:11,310 --> 02:52:17,219course our flagship chat room the SOR

376302:52:14,430 --> 02:52:19,229space travelers on Facebook hey KJ you

376402:52:17,219 --> 02:52:21,510can go to bed down in Florida now it's

376502:52:19,229 --> 02:52:24,029late for you so make sure you've done

376602:52:21,510 --> 02:52:25,979that yes this show flew by remember you

376702:52:24,030 --> 02:52:27,750can follow us on twitter at spaced out

376802:52:25,979 --> 02:52:30,420radio give our Facebook page alike

376902:52:27,750 --> 02:52:32,670spaced out radio show on Instagram I

377002:52:30,420 --> 02:52:34,920could be followed a Dave Scott SOR

377102:52:32,670 --> 02:52:36,810subscribe to our YouTube channel space

377202:52:34,920 --> 02:52:39,601out radio show and our website of course

3773


02:52:36,810 --> 02:52:41,219is spaced out radio calm thank you to

377402:52:39,601 --> 02:52:42,960robert Schneck for being with us tonight

377502:52:41,219 --> 02:52:45,029we're gonna bring them back on this was

377602:52:42,959 --> 02:52:47,759way too good to only do this one time

377702:52:45,030 --> 02:52:50,880way to good love a storyteller like that

377802:52:47,760 --> 02:52:52,440kept me absolutely intrigued the entire

377902:52:50,879 --> 02:52:56,129show thank you to everyone we'll we'll

378002:52:52,440 --> 02:52:58,771do this again in exactly 21 hours from

378102:52:56,129 --> 02:53:01,679now you have a good time I'm gonna have

378202:52:58,771 --> 02:53:03,690it a good time apparently I'm losing my

378302:53:01,680 --> 02:53:05,790voice officer Wow

378402:53:03,690 --> 02:53:06,920good timing for that since the show is

378502:53:05,790 --> 02:53:09,061almost over

378602:53:06,920 --> 02:53:10,979appreciate you taking the time with us

3787


02:53:09,060 --> 02:53:13,619we'll do it all again space out radio

378802:53:10,979 --> 02:53:14,459comm do me a favor tell a friend we

378902:53:13,620 --> 02:53:17,550appreciate it

379002:53:14,459 --> 02:53:26,769you have a good one good night

379102:53:17,549 --> 02:53:29,908[Music]

379202:53:26,770 --> 02:53:29,908[Applause]

379302:53:29,978 --> 02:53:32,038you

379402:53:38,209 --> 02:53:40,269you

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