FOR THE RECORDS

At ministerial screening,

Fashola says Nigeria is ‘not

yet the rich nation it will be’

…answers 31 questions from

16 senators, ‘competently and

adequately’, in about two

hours

On 29 July 2019, Mr Babatunde Raji Fashola, SAN, appeared before the Senate

of the Federal Republic of Nigeria for screening as one of the 43 nominees named by

President Muhammadu Buhari for ministerial positions.

According to the President of the Senate, Ahmed Ibrahim Lawan, at some point,

there were at least 40 senators who wanted to ask Fashola a question or two.

Eventually, after spending a little over one hour, 40 minutes, Fashola answered 31

questions from 16 senators. And, as one of the senators from Lagos State, Solomon

Adeola Olamilekan, told his colleagues, after the questions and answers, “I want to

believe that the ministerial nominee has taken in all questions and he has provided us

adequate answers; telling us his capacity and capability to perform.” Many Nigerians

who watched the screening agree.

This is the transcript of the proceedings.

President of

the Senate

Ahmed

Ibrahim

Lawan:

Distinguished

colleagues, the

screening of

the ministerial

nominees will

continue, and

this morning,

we have on

the podium

the former

Honourable Minister of Power, Works and Housing, Mr Babatunde Raji Fashola,

Senior Advocate of Nigeria.

Honourable Minister, let me welcome you to the Senate Chamber. Principal Office

holders of the Senate. On behalf of my colleagues, you are welcome to this

screening exercise, and we already have copies of your CV. You can go ahead to

highlight those things in the CV that you think are so significant for the Senate to

take note of, and even those that you might have not included in the CV but will

be of consequence and significance. Once again, you are welcome, and you can

address the Senate. Thank you.

‘I feel humbled and grateful to the President’

Mr Babatunde Raji

Fashola, SAN: Your

Excellency, the President

of the Senate. Your

Excellency, the Deputy

President of the Senate.

Distinguished senators

of the Federal Republic

of Nigeria, and most

especially, the senators

from the Centre of

Excellence, the State of

Lagos, my State.

Good morning. And let me start by saying that I feel humbled and grateful to the

President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria for considering me worthy of re-

nomination amongst 43 people in a federation of several hundreds of millions of

people.

For me, it is humbling as I have said, and it imposes a sense of immense

responsibility that, should you confirm me, the purpose for which the Office will

be meant will only be to serve the people of Nigeria. And in that sense, Sir, the

only useful contribution I can make to the documents already before you, are to

highlight some of the work that we undertook in the Ministry of Power, Works

and Housing. And, I say, “we” because, at the inception of that ministry, we were

two ministers, and in the course of service, we became three.

‘We left Power, Works & Housing Ministry better than we met it’

Let me say without being immodest that, from what we inherited when we took

office, after your prior confirmation in 2015, we left the ministry much better than

we met it. And, I believe that those conclusions are borne out by reports of the

committees of this Senate on Power, Works and Housing, in their oversight

functions in the course of our tenure.

I could highlight a few things that we did that I think are worthy of information,

just to iterate them for this Senate and also for the people of Nigeria, and to

benchmark what has been done as we set out on another journey of service to

Nigerians.

In the Power

Sector, for

instance, we set

out to achieve

initially

incremental

power, with a

mid-term goal of

steady power,

and ultimately,

uninterrupted

power.

We focused

essentially on

completing what we inherited, and this led us, for example, to recovering 720

containers belonging to the Federal Republic of Nigeria, containing transmission

equipment that had been left at the Nigerian ports for almost a decade. Those

equipment ultimately found their way to over a hundred sub-stations across the

country and we have completed some of them by the time I left office, and I

remember some notable ones like in Sokoto, in Mayo-Belwa, in Ikorodu

(Odogunyan’ in picture), in Ikot Ekpene, in Katampe, in Apo (in picture), to mention

a few.

I also remember that whilst we were managing the grid, we changed Nigeria’s

conversation from on-grid power alone to off-grid power, and for the first time as

far as I can recollect, Nigerians are now talking about, and benefitting, from off-

grid power. A few examples are markets like Ariaria…Sura; markets in Ibadan,

markets in Ondo, and by the time I left the ministry, we had set out a clear

roadmap for 350 markets as a full implementation initiative for this term.

I will also speak to universities, very briefly. We also undertook the power audit of

37 federal universities in Nigeria, with the plan to intervene and strategically deploy

independent power to Nigeria’s federal universities as our contribution to

education development which is a front-burner issue for the country. By the time I

left, based on the limited resources we had, we had commenced nine, as a first

phase, and all those nine are in various stages of implementation at the moment. I

can say with some …authority that, from next month, the…I think it is Ndufu

Alike University, if I

pronounced that

(correctly), in Ebonyi

State, will be the first to

switch on. It’s a project

that has 3,500 solar panels.

It has installed 18

kilometres of street

lighting in that university;

and that will be the first to

be commissioned, I think,

sometime next month, and

from then on, between the end of the year and March 2020,

the first phase of the nine, will be fully operational for

dedicated power in our schools.

I will quickly move, if you permit me, Sir, to Works, and to

just say that the conversation before the last administration,

were conversations of lack of projects in various states of the

federation. I think our Closing Report was that we could say

with some pride, that there was no state in the Federal

Republic of Nigeria where we were not executing at least one federal road; no

“Nigerians are now

talking about, and

benefitting, from

off-grid power.”

Fashola (in brown

outfit) inspecting the

plant at Alex

Ekwueme Federal

University, Ndufu-

Alike

state. Resources were scarce; there was a lot of demand; with the cooperation of

Parliament, the National Assembly, we got things going, even when revenues were

lean. That forced us to make choices; and in making choices, we decided to see

how we could do the greatest good to the greatest possible number of Nigerians.

And, one of the things

that we did was to

categorise roads, I

believe, into seven

categories, starting first

with roads that carried

the heaviest traffic.

These were roads like

Ilorin-Jebba, Abuja-

Kaduna, Lagos-Ibadan,

Enugu-Port Harcourt

Road, Sokoto-

Tambuwal-Jega Road

(pictured is completed Section 1), Kano-Maiduguri Road and so on and so forth. We

also had roads that decongested and provided access to ports. So, there were

roads…. Enugu-Port Harcourt Road fell into that category; the Apapa-Oshodi-

Oworonshoki fell into that category. We had roads to our fuel depots across the

country. One example of that was the Suleja-Minna Road. We also had roads that

evacuated goods from agricultural-prolific areas. Roads like Hadejia-Nguru;

Kirikasamma to Nguru. Roads in Ebonyi and such other roads were strategically

targeted to evacuate agro produce. We also, of course, targeted roads that were

being funded by counterpart funding, and because this had been a problem, they

were never budgeted for, they were not prioritised, and because of our strategy, I

can say now that, we have successfully, with your cooperation, started roads like

the road linking us to Cameroun from the Onitsha…Enugu-Onitsha, to link us to

Cameroun through a bridge. The Akwanga-Keffi Road is one of those roads as

well.

We also started the prioritisation of repair and maintenance of bridges nationwide,

and the Tambuwara Bridge, I believe, in Kano, the Isaac Boro Bridge in Rivers, the

Third Mainland Bridge in Lagos, the Tatabu Bridge, I believe, in Niger were some

of the bridges that benefitted from our strategic outlook as to how to proceed with

limited resources.

Perhaps the last one, was roads inside universities: our universities had been left

for a long time without attending to the roads, and at the time I left, we were

intervening in 14 universities; building their internal road networks.

Lastly, I will just say, in

terms of housing, that, at

the time we left office, we

were constructing houses in

34 states of the federation.

And, for

those who

might ask,

“why not

36?” it was

that we did

not get land

at the time,

in quick enough time, from two states; but I believe work is going on to make

those lands available now, and the 34 states, including the FCT, if I must

emphasise. But, what were we building? We were trying to model an acceptable, an

affordable type of house for Nigerians. We had learnt from the experiences of the

70s; we saw that some of the National Housing programmes had not been

occupied. And, we then conducted a national survey using builders and architects

from different parts of the country to go round Nigeria and tell us what Nigerians

would find acceptable and affordable. The results show that while the northern

part of the country preferred bungalows with courtyards at the back, and were

suitable for that because of the large expanse of land that was available, the

southern part was largely a demand for flats; but whether it was bungalows or

whether it was blocks of flats, there was a consensus about taking one, two and

three bedroom flats. By the time I left, we had finished quite a few and we were

also working on infrastructure, the mechanical and electrical parts. We were also

learning from the model we were designing, because we then saw that because

build-out cost was excessive and likely to be unaffordable by Nigerians, and we

were making corrections, in terms of some places, reducing concrete without

compromising standards and quality.

Your Excellency, President of the Senate, I think this is an appropriate place

perhaps to just stop and take questions as may arise and perhaps the opportunity

to clarify some things might come during that process. I thank you very much for

your patience.

President of the Senate: Thank you very much. Senator Biobarakuma Degi.

Senator Biobarakuma Degi-Eremienyo (Representing Bayelsa East

Senatorial District): Profound pleasure, Mr President of the Senate, well-seated as

the Chair. Most distinguished colleagues. Chair, thank you for the privilege of

“We are trying

to model

acceptable,

affordable

houses”

Houses in Ikot

Ntuen, Akwa

Ibom States, in

progress

allowing me to take the first shot. Mr Nominee, I used to be one of your silent,

quiet admirers in your days as governor of Lagos State; when you took over from

our leader, Bola Ahmed Tinubu, and you continued with the urban renewal

programmes of Lagos State. I want to congratulate you on your re-nomination; re-

nomination as a ministerial nominee by the President of the Federal Republic of

Nigeria. I wish you good luck. I am confident that you will do well.

Mr Nominee, I also think, and I won’t be surprised that if you are successfully

confirmed by the Senate, you may likely be reappointed and redeployed to your

former ministry. In the event that that happens, I want to raise two questions and

maybe clarification from you Sir. You talked about the criteria used for the choice

of projects for execution based on scarce resources. Mr Nominee, I know that that

choice is also based on the critical economic importance of these roads. I just want

to know if Eleme-Port Harcourt Road leading to Port Harcourt Refinery is not

part of the roads that are considered very critical in your choice of roads to be

executed in the country; because this road, Mr Nominee, as you know, leads to the

refinery and you can imagine the number of trucks and vehicles that ply that road.

It is perennially under deplorable condition; that road, as you know. And, even as I

speak to you, if you pass through that road, it is an eyesore. Sometimes, the State

Government also intervenes. Mr Nominee, I think it is important to know, you

know, why that road is not part of your consideration.

The second one, still on roads; you are also aware that the road leading from Kolo;

Yenegwe-Kolo-Nembe Road, passing through the first commercial oil well, oil

field in this country; the Oloibiri axis leading to Nembe to Brass. Brass is an export

terminal of crude oil. And from 1974 till date, that road is under construction. I

just want to also know why your choice of projects to the …particularly the road

projects, that that road is not considered. I know that you are a very strong man,

you are committed and focused person. You performed very well, but this

particular road has not been given attention. That’s on roads.

Secondly… (murmuring), no, no, it’s on roads (louder murmuring)…this is the second

one….I should be protected now….

‘There are 28 senators who want to ask questions’

President of the Senate: Distinguished Senator Degi, you know we’ve set some

rules for ourselves and one of them is a maximum of two questions per person, so

that we allow others; and I can tell you, I have about 28 senators who want to ask

questions. So, I will even advise that no preamble, no introduction, go straight to

your question, so that we are able to take as many senators as possible.

Senator Ike Ekweremadu.

Senator Ike Ekweremadu (Deputy Senator President in the 8th Assembly;

representing Enugu West Senatorial District): Thank you, Mr President. Very

distinguished colleagues. Mr Nominee, I will start by congratulating you on your

re-nomination and also to thank you for your commitment to the development of

not just Lagos where you were governor but also for our country as a minister of

the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

I just have two questions. You will recall, Mr Nominee, that I had a conversation

with you when you were appointed last, regarding the issue of private sector

participation in the road sector development; and one of the challenges at the time,

according to you, was the complex nature of the procurement process for that kind

of arrangement, and you promised that you were going to find a way of simplifying

it. But, four years down the line, we ended up still pursuing the issue of

appropriation as the sole item in the road sector development. Is it something you

think that you can achieve as quickly as possible? Because, as it is today, it’s almost

likely going to be difficult for us to achieve our…maximum expectation in road

sector by just yearly appropriation. So, do you think that there is something you

can do to fast-track the process and get the private sector involved and be

able…so that they can be able to recover their money through a very transparent

process?

The second is in the Energy Sector. It appears to me that we are not making so

much progress in that regard. And, would you like to consider a situation where

unbundling the energy sector, or segment it, in such a way that states or zones will

be able to have independent generation, transmission and distribution? So that we

would be able to have some level of efficiency. Because the present national grid

we have (doesn’t) seem to be working. Because once we have a failure in one place,

it affects every other place. So, Nigeria, as large as it is, would you like to consider a

situation where we would be able to segment our energy sector for purposes of

efficiency?

President of the Senate: Leader of the Senate.

Senate Majority Leader (Senator Yahaya Abubakar Abdullahi, representing

Kebbi North Senatorial District): Thank you, Mr President. My distinguished

colleagues. Congratulations for your second nomination. My question is that,

recently it appears, or we learnt that the Federal Government has concluded some

arrangement, some agreement with Siemens of Germany to participate in the

Power Sector. Can you inform this Senate, what kind of agreement is this? At what

point do we expect this intervention to take place? Secondly, do you expect this

intervention will not affect the kind of agreement that the Federal Government

entered with the private sector people in the power value chain?

President of the Senate: Senator Ibrahim Hassan Hadejia.

Senator Ibrahim Hassan Hadejia (Representing Jigawa North Senatorial

District): Thank you very much, Senate President. My colleagues. The nominee. I

have just one question and it is (with) regards to on-grid solar. As you are aware,

over the last four years, there’ve been a lot of activities toward actualising on-grid

solar investment. And, in particular, I think there were about…14 projects or so at

various stages of financial close until, I think, sometime 2018. The ERGP selected

four. I think two are in my state, Jigawa. There was Bauchi…and Katsina. And, in

my own experience, I have been to your office several times; (it) was very, very

frustrating. We had investors that had come in, acquired land, done all the

regulatory processes. Some of them had signed connection agreement with TCN

(Transmission Company of Nigeria). But the last mile, it came to PCOA (Put

Option Call Agreement) with NBET (Nigeria Bulk Electricity Trading Plc) became

very frustrating. The issue was pricing. Prices dropped from 17 to 11.5 to 7.5 per

kilowatt/hr. We got to a point where these guys were saying, “tell us how much

you want to pay.” But, unfortunately, this was not achieved till you left office. My

question simply put is: are we going to have, on-grid solar, you think, in the next

two, three years? Because the last information I got was that we are reluctant to

bring in solar power because we had issues with distribution and transmission. My

question is: what if we sort out these issues and the variables have changed? The

land for solar might not be there. The investors might have moved on. Simply put,

are we going to have on-grid solar, you think, in the next two or three years, since

we all assume that you might end up superintending the power sector again. Thank

you.

President of the Senate: I will still encourage our colleagues to just go straight to

the question. Senator Teslim Folarin and then the nominee can respond.

Senator Teslim Folarin (Representing Oyo Central Senatorial District): My

highly respected colleagues. Mr President. To the nominee, you talked about

prioritising roads’ projects, but we find it very disappointing that such a strategic

road like the Lagos-Ibadan express hasn’t been finished in four years. That’s No. 1.

Then, No. 2, would you say you were overwhelmed supervising these three major

ministries? Thank you.

President of the Senate: You can respond now.

‘We should consider a N10trillion Infrastructure Bond’

Babatunde Raji Fashola: Thank you, Sir…. Some of the questions have some

generic problems; like roads. So, perhaps, let me just say to the very first question

about the Eleme-Port Harcourt Road and perhaps, Lagos-Ibadan. The common

problem between them was always funding. There was never enough resources and

I made that clear in saying that we were then forced to make choices.

Everybody wants something and that is why we are all here in the Federal

Government. Everybody wants development in his or her own State, and as

the…and let us be mindful, distinguished senators, that, at least, in the last three,

four years that I have been here, there is no year that we have not passed a deficit

budget. And that simply meant that our resources were not enough to match and

sufficiently fund our stated, intended expenditure; and, therefore, we have to

borrow, and there is a large group of people who say that we are over-borrowing.

So…and as I said with regards to that road (Eleme-Port Harcourt), we had to

make choices. It wasn’t that we didn’t want to do it, we had to choose, and to the

extent that, for example, in that area, there was another project, the Bodo-Bonny

Bridge which had been left for a

while. We felt that the

commitment

to that place, at

least would

give us some

opportunity to

say, we are

doing

something also

in this area;

“Our resources

never enough, so

we had to make

strategic

choices.”

Bodo-Bonny

Bridge, in Rivers

State, in progress

because we were also mindful and sensitive to some equitable distribution of what

asset…and the Kolo-Yenagoa Road suffers the same problem; apart from

community issues at a time when I visited. There were some community issues that

had delayed the project.

‘PPPs are complex, not attractive for all projects’

With regards to PPPs, let me

just quickly say that as I have

said and acknowledged by

Distinguished Senator

Ekweremadu, PPPs are

complex, they take time to

negotiate. Even here in the

Federal Government, you need

to go through the ICRC

(Infrastructure Concession

Regulatory Commission), you

need to advertise, you need

to….In a Government that has

four years to show results, and

in a country where there is very,

very high expectation for

results, we must then be more

skillful in how we use them.

That said, let me also say that

PPPs are not attractive for all

projects. I have learnt to

distinguish between social

projects, like roads, and commercial projects, like airports, hospitals, and those

kind of facilities where there is a daily cash count, and those are easier for private

investors to want to put their money into than roads and the risk of construction

that it requires. And so, you will see that one of the things, and there are so many

modes. One mode, of course, has been to take funding through special

instruments like the Sukuk. That was a sort of PPP. To use policies like the

Nigerian Tax Credit Initiative Policy which we are now using to build the Apapa-

Oworonshoki Expressway; which Lafarge has also used to build the road to their

factory in Calabar and a couple of others are showing interest; and I think that at

the time I left, there were about 28 roads on the shortlist for the committee set up

to review and hopefully approve for implementation. I have, in response to your

question, “what do I suggest?” I think there is some opportunity, and I made this

presentation during the last 2019 Budget Presentation that one of the ways I think

Drainage work on Liverpool Road, Apapa, as part of

reconstruction of the Apapa-Oworonshoki Expressway by

Dangote Construction under the Executive Order 7 of 2019

on the Road Infrastructure Development and Refurbishment

Investment Tax Credit Scheme signed by President

Muhammadu Buhari on 25 January 2019.

is to expand instruments like the Sukuk. Maybe it won’t be a Sukuk this time, but I

think Nigeria can seek to leverage from the large pool of funds with ordinary

people who are looking for secure investments and some of them are not even in

the banking sector keeping their cash. And, I proposed then that we should

consider something like a N10trillion Infrastructure Bond backed by parliamentary

support and secured by the Federal Government with a reasonable coupon issued

in tranches each year we need to fund infrastructure, and broken up into even very

small denominations that people can invest as much as only N1,000. Those who

want to invest a billion can do so, and so on. And, in my view… if we don’t try

this, we won’t know whether it has worked. But I am convinced that we can do

something along this line, based on the interests that I saw in the Sukuk. In a

N100billion

Sukuk, for

example,

there were

186 or 286

investors,

and the

instrument

was over-

subscribed.

Which

meant that

there was

an appetite

for it. So, I

will make

that

suggestion,

Sir….The other way, of course, which the president has also used is the

Infrastructure Development Fund by the National Sovereign Investment

Authority, and this is what is helping to fund the Lagos-Ibadan Expressway now,

the Second Niger Bridge, the Abuja-Kano Highway. The East-West Road is listed

there, and it is also to fund our counterpart funding, I think, for the 2019 Budget

for the Mambilla Hydro Project, but we are still waiting for the Chinese to approve

the main loan.

‘We must support NERC to exercise its powers to the fullest’

….In terms of Energy, I think the sector itself has already been…unbundled. And,

I say this, because, and I thank you for the question, because it provides an

opportunity, perhaps, to reach out to more Nigerians to understand what has

Presentation of symbolic cheque for the 2019 N100b Sukuk Sovereign Bond to Fashola

(in suit) by the Former Minister of Finance, Zainab Shamshuna Ahmed (second right);

Director-General Debt Management Organisation, Patience Oliha, and Permanent

Secretary, Ministry of Finance, Dr Mahmoud Isa-Dutse.

happened in that sector. When this National

Assembly passed the 2005 Electric Power Sector

Reform Act, it was a clear statement that the Nigerian

people, through their elected representatives, were

saying to Government: Get out of power, let the

private sector do it. That process led to; and before

that process, the Ministry of Power then used to have

over 50,000 staff as a ministry. And those were the

men and women who manned all the power stations,

they manned the transmission system, they

manned…. The distribution companies that we now

had were manned by officials of the Ministry

seconded to them and posted accordingly. By the

time this law was implemented and privatisation took

effect, the staff strength of the Ministry of Power that

I inherited was about 790. And, in the last Budget

defence that I presented to Senate, we were

accounting for 699 staff.

So, the effect of that law was that the ministry had

ceased to be an operator, and by extension,

Government. We didn’t have trucks, we didn’t have meters, we didn’t have ladders,

we didn’t keep transformers anymore. That was now the business of private sector.

By that law, the ministry was restricted to policy and directives. And the regulator

was NERC (Nigeria Electricity Regulatory Commission). So, they issued licences,

they could sanction the licensees, for non-performance. Not the Ministry. Not any

of the ministers. That was clear by your law: our role was to issue policy. (On 9

July 2018, Mr Fashola held a press briefing detailing some of the policy directions.

Please visit: https://bit.ly/2ZBRieN)

So, some of the things I have spoken to you about today were the results of some

of the policies we made, recommendations we made, not only to the regulator, but

also to our employer, the Government. And, let me also say, Sir, that the

Constitution, as amended, I believe in Article 13, 14 and 15 of the Second

Schedule, which is the Concurrent List, clearly makes provision for States to

participate in Power, contrary to the widely held belief that States cannot. And, if I

can paraphrase the provisions, it is something to the effect that states and state

governments can generate their own power, transmit their own power, and

distribute their own power, where, in places not covered by the national grid. And,

that is a lot of space for States to play. And they can also form their own States’

Power Authorities. The Constitution makes that very clear. But, it is a space that I

think some States have not occupied significantly enough. So, for clarity, Sir, the

The effect of the

Power Sector

Reform Act was that

Ministry of Power

had ceased to be an

operator.

We didn’t have

trucks, we didn’t

have meters, we

didn’t have ladders,

we didn’t keep

transformers

anymore. By that

law, the ministry was

restricted to policy.

and directives.

UNBUNDLED

regulator, NERC, just like if we want to know what is wrong with SIM cards, call-

drops, and all of that, we don’t go to the Ministry of Communications, we go to

NCC (National Communications Commission). If we want to know what is

happening with banks, we don’t go to the Ministry of Finance, we go to the

Central Bank, that is the regulator. And it is the regulator that we must all support

now, to exercise the fullest powers that you have given the regulator, and there is a

lot of powers there to act on behalf of all of us, and as I always say, I am a

consumer myself.

And, that takes me to the question of solar projects, that I don’t like solar projects.

I have one in my house, I have on my roof; and so, it is not true that I am

reluctant, I don’t like…. The truth about those 14 projects, Sir, is that they were

initiated by State governments before we came, and they required Federal

Government to guarantee the purchase of the power. So, it was a State

government that says I want power but Federal Government, guarantee that you

will pay for it. That was the business model. There were so many problems that we

resolved. But, I think that it is instructive to make the point, as you pointed out,

Sir, that the PCOA which is the security document, is not a document issued by

the Ministry of Power. It is a financing instrument issued by the Ministry of

Finance and they were asking for a foreign instrument; which meant that our

Ministry of Finance had to go to the World Bank to say, we want… this

instrument for these projects…. For want of a better word, I describe it as like

asking for insurance policy. So, the World Bank, who issues the instrument now

said, “your tariff agreed with this people is too high. We are doing tariffs for solar

in Zambia, I think, at six cents per kilowatt/hour. Yours is 11 cents. If they want

our insurance, let them reduce the price.” So, it is not correct to say that we were

the ones holding back. It was the price of the instrument that they wanted that

they could not accommodate. We offered them a local security in Naira, because,

at the time when this issue took place, it was during the recession, and one of the

points I made was that we can’t give you a guarantee in dollars because we are

short of dollars but at the time and till tomorrow, I don’t think that Nigeria will

ever run out of Naira.

I think just to emphasise that there is still hope that those projects will be done but

perhaps the business model may have to be looked at again. Because as I have said,

if you have authorised Government to get out of power, why should Government

be the one buying the power? And that is a business model that I think we need to

look at again.

Just to say, again, for Lagos-Ibadan and to PPPs, all of us are living witnesses to

the fact that when the PPP was signed for that project in 2006 or 2007, nothing

really happened on that road until 2012, when the previous administration

cancelled it. So, that is the kind of delays you can have. So, there was five years of

no activity, really; of visible activity. When it was cancelled, then it became a court

case. And the same is true of the Second Niger Bridge. By the time I took office,

the people who were supposed to be the concessionaires said they couldn’t

continue; that the economic variables had changed. The agreement they were

looking at was N165 to a dollar and at three hundred and something, it was no

longer economically viable. They were asking then the Federal Government to say,

look, the traffic count here cannot meet our financing expectations, so give us a

guarantee in dollars, if the traffic count falls short, and I refused to recommend

that, and I recommended that the Federal Government should take over its

projects and continue, and I think, with the benefit of hindsight, I can say that I

am happy that my recommendations were accepted.

The piling works on the bridge have now been completed and as we get into dry

season now, some more progress should be made. Thank you Sir.

President of the Senate: Senator… the Deputy Minority Leader.

Senator Emmanuel Bwacha (Deputy Minority Leader; representing Taraba

South Senatorial District): Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have two questions for

the nominee. One, Mr Nominee, our learned SAN Raji Fashola, whether you have

any reason for the neglect of the Ibi Bridge which is a long-standing project. Year-

in, year-out, we see allocation, and yet nothing done, and it is a bridge that links, I

think, Plateau, Nassarawa, a large part of the Middle Belt to the Trunk A Road;

that links Maiduguri to the South East. What is the reason for this neglect? And,

For more pictures on the progress of work on the Second Niger Bridge, please visit https://www.second-river-niger-

bridge.com/

Number Two, you…I listened carefully to your submission, before questions. You

said all 36 states of the federation, none has no project from your ministry. I am

from Taraba State. And, I know the only project from Federal Ministry of Works;

road project is the one I brought as a constituency project. But, even then, money

allocated for the road has been diverted. Is there one road that you are doing in

Taraba that is not known to me? Thank you.

President of the Senate: Senator Comrade Patrick Abba Moro.

Senator Comrade Patrick Abba Moro (representing Benue South Senatorial

District): Thank you Mr Chairman for the privilege to ask these few questions. Mr

Nominee, you were minister in the Ministry of Works, Power, Housing, and some

concerns have been voiced in recent times concerning infrastructural deficits

across Nigeria. As the former minister, immediate past minister, in charge of these

facilities, are you happy and satisfied; in one, the permanent state of ongoing

projects like the Abuja-Lokoja Road, the Loko-Oweto Bridge and Road, and the

Second Niger Bridge, to mention but a few? Secondly, can you, in all honesty, tell

Nigerians now, what you are going to do different, if per chance, you are

confirmed and posted to the same ministry; to stabilise light, to enable Nigeria

celebrate at least one, two, three, four, five months of uninterrupted electricity, just

like other countries have recently celebrated 50 years of uninterrupted electricity.

Thank you, Mr Chairman.

President of the Senate: Senator ID Gyang:

Senator Istifanus Dung Gyang (representing Plateau North Senatorial

District): Thank you Mr President, seating as Chair, Committee of the Whole. Mr

Minister-nominee, I want to say that, I congratulate you, and to say that one thing

that is condition-precedent for the long-awaited developmental and economic

breakthrough of our nation at the national and sub-national level(s) has to do with

infrastructure, and in particular, roads and power. And, the nation entrusted you

with that responsibility for the past four years, and the president has again seen the

need to reappoint you. Should you be reassigned to that same ministry, your

attention will be brought to the critical artery of the road linking Akwanga, Jos and

Bauchi to the north-east. That is a critical national artery, and also the one linking

Jos and Zaria is very, very important. Secondly, in the housing aspect, would you

subscribe to this very strong opinion that the issue of the displacement of people

that have been affected by violence and banditry that has to do with their

resettlement, should be incorporated into the housing policy in a way that

provision will be made for the rebuilding of those communities as part of the

process of healing the processes of the communities that have been affected and

traumatised by this violence. Thank you.

President of the Senate: Senator Yusuf Yusuf.

Senator Yusuf Abubakar Yusuf (representing Taraba Central Senatorial

District): Thank you, Mr Chairman. Distinguished colleagues. I want to

congratulate the nominee…for coming for the second time. But, my question, Sir,

I am from Mambilla, Taraba State; as senator representing Taraba Central. I have

two questions, Sir. One question is, you said the international challenge for

delaying the progress of Mambilla is actually the slow processing of the Chinese

loan. What is the local challenge? What is the local challenge that is delaying the

Mambilla electricity project? I know it was awarded in November, no, in August

2017, contract signed in November 2017, and today, it is about two years down the

line, and my people are agitated. What is happening to the progress of this project?

That’s Question Number One. Number Two, Sir. Taraba Central is the only

senatorial district in Nigeria which is not connected to the national grid. What is it

that is delaying the hooking of Taraba Central to the national grid? Thank you very

much.

President of the Senate: Senator Rochas Okorocha…. Distinguished colleagues, I

have 40 names, so if you can be generous enough to ask only question per person,

so that it can go round.

Senator Rochas Okorocha (Representing Imo West Senatorial District): Mr

Senate President, seating as the Chair. I think I should rather be standing up, so

that he can see me better. Mr Raji Fashola Tunde (some giggles) my good friend, my

colleague, you are a good man, (inaudible), no doubt about it. (Murmuring. Allow him

now. Go ahead, go ahead) You have all eulogised your colleagues as senators. Let me

eulogise my colleague as a governor; one-time governor. (Murmuring. My Governor,

My Governor. You are on the right path). Mr Nominee, I know that you are someone

that thinks outside the box. But from all I have heard so far, excellent presentation,

like so many other great people have spoken. My question here is that, considering

your experience for the past four years as an honourable minister of this critical

sector of our economy – Infrastructure, Power, Housing, Works, which if summed

together, these are the key infrastructures that determine a nation’s development.

In the first place, I would have expected that the three ministries (are) too large to

have been handled by just one person. And look at my friend now having grey hair

at a very young age ( laughter from the floor). So, my question would be, my friend,

there is one salient point here which I want you to address: issue of funding.

Because this would amount to an academic exercise, if there is no money for you

to perform. My colleagues who have spoken before me have mentioned the

number of roads. I don’t want to talk about Imo that had only five kilometres of

road from Federal Government, the Airport Road. And about four kilometres

have been done or something. The question is how do you want to address this

issue of funding? Would you, and let me give a leeway to it; would you, because I

think in Nigeria, we are cutting our cloth according to material available…our size,

not according to material available, and if we keep cutting our cloth according to

our size, the material cannot cover it. The entire budget of this National Assembly

is not up to the budget of the Fire Department of New York. The question is…is

the funding…how…what would be the new thing you tell Nigerians as to issue of

funding? And, if funding, how much do you really require to tackle the issue of

power, power in Nigeria. How much is required? And issue of DISCOS, would

you say DISCOS is a success story or was it a political roundabout? Thank you.

President of the Senate: Senator Sadiq Sulaiman Umar.

Senator Sadiq Sulaiman Umar (Representing Kano North Senatorial

District): Mr President, seating as Chair of the Committee of the Whole. My

distinguished colleagues. I am Sadiq Sulaiman Umar, representing the good people

of Kwara North. Mr Nominee, congratulations for your nomination. I have a very

simple question, and this has to do with regulation, regulation, regulation of goods

and services. Mr Nominee, the regulation in any country determines how anybody,

the citizens, and in fact, other countries take a country serious. In Nigeria, what is

your opinion, as regards what is responsible for sub-optimal performance for our

regulatory agencies and the regulatory professional bodies, and again what will you

say we need to do to push them in the right path, so that, you know, we can put

behind us, all this building collapse, poor, sub-standard, adulterated drugs, name it,

all these problems? What would you say, what do we need to do? Because, the

activities of regulators (are) directly proportional to how citizens take a

government serious, how to be committed to the country, and how indeed, other

countries will take (you) serious. Thank you.

President of the Senate: Deputy Chief Whip.

Dr Aliyu Sabi Abdullahi (Representing Niger North Senatorial District):

Thank you, Mr President, seating as chair. I am Dr Aliyu Sabi Abdullahi. I

represent the good people of Niger North Senatorial District. I am from Niger

State. Permit me to align myself with other speakers in congratulating you for this

second nomination. My question is: there is a submission that the present

procurement system in Nigeria is serving as a clog (in) the wheel of progress in

executing government projects or contracts. And, it is also said that it does not

favour our indigenous companies in the construction industry, and, in particular,

Small and Medium Entreprises are not getting a good bargain because of the very

many qualifications. What will be your take with respect to this?

Secondly, I am from Niger State, and Niger State has over 2,165 kilometres of

federal roads; which means if you are coming from the north to the south or vice

versa, you are bound to encounter a road in Niger State, and because of the heavy

traffic, currently, I don’t think Niger State has any one hundred-kilometre stretch

of road that is very motorable. I know you’ve made so much effort, but if you are,

perchance, taken back to this ministry, what would you be doing differently, that

the very good people of Niger, will feel very happy that that story of the blind man

who says we are in Niger simply because he has heard the gallop of the road, he

would say, yes, we are now in Niger State, because of the peculiar nature of Niger

roads. What would you be saying differently so that our people will have that hope

that the Birnin-Gwari Road to Tegina and to Makira and the like will come back to

life; because this road has been completely abandoned now. That is why the

Mokwa-Bida Road coming through to Suleja is now the main road that people

take. That itself is also suffering from a lot of pressure. So, what will you be doing

differently, so that we don’t end up losing all the roads that will take us to our

various constituencies? Thank you.

President of the Senate: Senator Francis Alimikhena, then Senator Danjuma

Goje.

Senator Francis Alimikhena (representing Edo North Senatorial District):

Mr Nominee, I have two questions for you. For the past four years now as a

Minister of Works, what have you been doing about this Obajana-Okene Road,

Okene-Auchi, Auchi-Ekpoma, and this road, money has been budgeted year-in,

year-out, every year. And, if you come back again, as a minister of … what are you

going to do about this road? Right now, the road is not passable, especially Okene

to Auchi. They budget money on this road, year-in, year-out. Then you talked

about this….Second question, on housing: money was budgeted for housing, as

well; then, for the past four years, your ministry never commissioned any project,

any housing project. I didn’t see anyone. If you have done anyone in any state, you

have not done anyone in Edo. What are you going to do? What happened to this

fund that was released to you, for housing? The third one is just an advice (shouts of

aha, No, no, no, two, two….)

President of the Senate: Senator Danjuma Goje.

Senator Danjuma Goje (Representing Gombe Central): Thank you, Mr

President, Chair. I am Mohammed Danjuma Goje, representing Gombe Central.

Your Excellency, Mr Nominee. Right now, as you know, there are hundreds of

roads uncompleted across the country; some have been there, they have been

ongoing, sometimes abandoned for two, three years, then work resumes, then

work is abandoned. There are so many roads that have been awarded by the

Ministry of Works, but you hardly, throughout the year, you hardly hear or see

either Mr President or the Minister of Works commissioning a fully completed

road. Most roads are ongoing; every year, ongoing, every year, ongoing, ongoing.

You know, in private, I discuss with you, about this issue, about three or four

occasions. I say, is there no way, Mr Nominee, if you go back, you can categorise

these roads, and in categorising them, make sure each part of this country benefits.

It’s very, very important. (They) should not be categorised in favour of one section

of the country or another, but in a way that, every year, you complete some roads,

two, three, four which Mr President will go, or you will go, or somebody will go

and commission so that they will be put to use. It doesn’t make sense, unless you

have better reasons to tell us now, whereby we keep awarding new roads, new

roads, new upon new, and they are all ongoing always, perpetually ongoing. Is

there no way you can structure this, so that, we can, at least, some roads will be

fully commissioned and completed? That is Question Number One. My second

question is to do with power. Mr Nominee, you know that the power reform

effected by the Federal Government, with a view to giving stable electricity to

Nigeria; somehow, somehow, every day, we hear of complaint from the GENCOs,

no payment, that they are being owed billions and billions of Naira. We hear of

DISCOs complaining that they don’t have money and we hear of stories where

DISCOs don’t invest in transformers, to the extent that now these days

communities buy their own transformers or we in the National Assembly, through

our Constituency Projects, also buy transformers to our various communities,

which should not be the case; should have been the responsibility of the DISCOs.

Now, in your opinion, do you think this present reform won’t have been effected,

whereby generation and distribution have been privatised; only transmission is

retained by Government? Do you think going by this arrangement, we can ever

achieve, without prejudice to the Siemens arrangement with the Federal

Government, we can ever achieve stable power supply in this country? Thank you

very much.

President of the Senate:

You can respond now.

‘We can agree to

pause new projects,

to complete ongoing

ones’

Babatunde Raji Fashola:

Thank you, Your Excellency. If you permit me, I will take the questions in reverse

order. There are some that bear similarities; and maybe, for want of time, let me

just say that, in some other, so, starting with Senator Danjuma Goje’s questions, in

some other jurisdictions, Government has decided to hold the retail end, which is

NERC HAS TO EXERCISE ITS POWERS

‘THE POWERS OF THE REGULATOR FOR

MAKING THE REFORM WORK MUST BE

TARGETED TOWARDS ENSURING THAT

MINIMUM SERVICE LEVELS, LICENSING

CONDITIONS ARE MET.’

DISCOs; so, in some places, they have decided to hold the generation. We chose

to hold the transmission. And, so, there is nothing wrong in what model you

choose. I have alluded here, earlier, Sir, to the powers of the regulator. Let me

speak to two powers that the regulator has. In, I think Sections 73, 74 and 75 of

the Electric Power Sector

Reform Act, on the

complaint of a consumer,

or another licensee, and

DISCOs, GENCOs and

TCN…that any licensee

is not carrying out its

function properly, one of

the powers that was

vested by that law in the regulator, NERC, is to undertake an investigation, and do

one of several things, including amending the licence of that licensee; or, even,

cancelling the licence. As we have seen in cases like the Central Bank. And, as we

have seen in some cases like, with the NCC. As we have seen with the (National)

Broadcasting Commission. So, the powers of the regulator for making the Reform

work must be targeted towards ensuring that minimum service levels, licensing

conditions are met. And, until we fully exhaust those powers, it would be

premature to say that the Reform is not working. But, often times when we

privatise things, who goes back to check the service level compliance. Who pulls a

lever of caution or compulsion, as the case may be, for us? And, I think, that is

something all of us should, spend some time to look at. The South Africa model

with which we have sometimes spoken, sadly, in derogatory nature about our

nation, is not perfect. It is indebted massively; it continues to benefit from

government funding. Now, with the DISCOs, for example, Government is a

holder of 40% of the shares of DISCOs; and it holds 40% on behalf of the Federal

Government, the states, the local governments and the labour unions. So, as a

shareholder, it must also invest, and I think that is my understanding of the

Siemens intervention which was spoken about by one of your distinguished

colleagues, and I want to take them together. Just to say that, at this time, whatever

investment is coming through Siemens would have to be worked into the existing

arrangement, but I was not

Section 73: Amendment of Licences.

1. Subject to this section, the Commission may, at any

time, amend a licence or any term or condition of

licence.

For the other sections and more on EPSR Act, please

visit: https://bit.ly/2Ki9rsR

around when that

agreement was

concluded, so I

can’t speak here to

the finer details of

what it contains

because I have not

yet read it. About

commissioning

roads, I am happy

Distinguished

Senator Danjuma

Goje brought this

up in the open.

These are

discussions we have

had privately

because I

approached him as

chairman of Appropriations Committee, and that if the decision were mine, and I

have made this recommendation in the Federal Executive Council. That if the

decision were mine to make, as I once did when I was in Lagos, that there would

be a year or two years when there would be no new projects. And, if we can come

to that (agreement), as a nation, and this is the challenge of liberal democracy,

really, how to build consensus. Amongst all of the eminent men and women who

are representing various parts of the country, with a mandate to bring home

development, but if we can have consensus about this, and say, this year, let us

have no new projects, let us prioritise, we can’t have everything we want at the

same time. So, if, for example, all of the distinguished senators from the south east,

three from each state, will make the Enugu-Port Harcourt Road, with the senators

from Enugu, 18 of them as their Priority Project; Kano-Maiduguri Road crosses

about seven states, we will have 21 or so senators saying, this is our commitment

to all our people, while we are here. And, if we look at the Lagos-Ibadan

expressway, serving three states, nine senators there. The Ajebandele-Ore-Benin

serves Ogun, Ondo, Edo States, and so on and so forth. We can begin to have

consensus about our priorities. We cannot do all of what we want at once. The life

of a nation cannot be dealt with in more than…in four years. It requires more

than…it’s a going concern. So, those would be my broad recommendations that I

am willing to take up at a more auspicious and time-permitting forum. But I think

they may provide a way forward.

President Muhammadu Buhari watches as the CEO of Siemens AG, Berlin

and Munich President, Joe Kaeser (second right) and Mr Alex Okoh, Director

General, Bureau of Public Enterprises, supported by their officials, shake hands

after the signing of the landmark agreement at State House, Abuja…on 22 July

2019.

And, I think, in a sense, I have answered what Senator Francis Alimikhena alluded

to; except to provide some clarifications. Some sections of that Benin-Okene-

Auchi Road have actually

been finished: the section

from Benin to Azura

(picture right) has been

finished. The problematic

section is the one that you

mentioned, and the

problem there is that

there is currently no drain

to take out water. It is a

low-water table area. So,

if we build, as is currently

is, the road will fail again. And, so, I have challenged our engineers, and they were

working on a drainage solution with the contractors until I left office. So, if we

don’t drain that place, it just will not happen. And, what we have done differently

is what we have done during the rainy season and Christmas when there is heavy

traffic, and flooding, is to, at least, make it motorable, to ease the plight of

commuters, and I think that you will acknowledge that this has happened

repeatedly. We want to find a final solution.

Let me say, again, that I…well, Niger State… Distinguished Senator Sabi

Abdullahi will agree that we have moved the needle a little bit. Again, problem, of

course, is how much money will we get? Because it is one thing to make the

budget, and I think it is common knowledge here that, no ministry has received all

of the resources for its budget. So, yes, we gladly announce Ministry of Power,

Works and Housing has N500b budget, but we seldom get more than 250, 280, at

peak.

‘Onerous conditions keep small people out of Procurement’

So, Nigeria is not yet the rich nation that I know that it will be. It isn’t yet. So,

there is a gap between our anticipated spending and what we really earn.

In terms of Procurement, yes, I agree, and we have discussed this severally. There

are many issues with the Procurement system. It seeks, I think, to achieve value for

money; whether it has done that efficiently is debatable. But it also excludes some

of the most vulnerable people in our society. Small and medium and very basic

people, people who want to pay children’s school fees, who want to pay medical

bills, people who want to pay their house rent. They want to benefit from the

Procurement; people that you represent, people that we represent. And, they can’t

benefit, because the conditions for benefitting are too onerous. So, they have to

bring all sorts of documents which they never have, so the cost of getting those

documents becomes something that makes them unable to benefit. So, we started a

National Infrastructure Maintenance Programme. This is a process by which we

seek to engage a lot of artisans, plumbers, welders, carpenters, bricklayers, R & A

refrigeration, Heating, Ventilation and Cooling practitioners, but I am afraid that as

the Procurement law (currently) stands, it is only the big people who will make

more money. Or, who will get the contracts and then engage these people. So, I

have made the recommendation to many of the distinguished senators and I hope

that we would see a rescoping of that law. The expectation that has been expressed

here also for projects to be completed on time, are not compatible; our expectation

on speed is not compatible with what we’ve enacted in our law where we have to

first do a Procurement Plan. When we finish that, it gets approved, and then

advertise it for six weeks, then there are thousands of bids; then we get human

rights, civil society to come and witness everything. Then, after that, then there are

petitions and so on and so forth. It is not compatible with the speed at which we

want to move. So, our law is holding us back. And, the law is made for us, we are

not made for the law. And, I hope that distinguished senators will rise up to this

challenge and look at this as a matter of expedition.

Let me….

(Murmuring…“Time Up, Time Up Mr President”)

Let me speak on Regulation. It was raised by distinguished senator…it is a very

important point. You would have heard me at some public fora, speaking about

the need to recruit some of the very best of our human capital into our Public

Service. And, I am developing a paper that I hope to share, but the answer, simply

is, we need more professionalism within the regulatory body. Professionals must

be able to hold themselves to the highest possible standards across board, and I

think that if Nigeria’s professional elite take up this responsibility, Nigeria will be a

much better place.

Distinguished Senator Okorocha… I think I have addressed the issue of funding

whilst you stepped out, but the point to make again is to repeat what I said: that

the budgets do not get full cash funding. Our budgets are deficit budgets as you

probably also would have experienced whilst in Imo, and, therefore, we need to

find more money. My recommendation was to suggest: raise an Infrastructure

Bond where all Nigerians can contribute their small, small tokens and let’s see how

far that takes us. We also are utilising PPPs but, again, something like a Tax Credit

Initiative; people have not understood it sufficiently. And, maybe I should say a

word about it here. It is an advance credit of the company’s income tax to

Government; an advance credit of its income tax, and therefore, for a company to

benefit…so if you want to build a N10billion road with your income tax paid in

advance, it means first that you must make profit of an amount that’s equivalent or

have a record of up to N10billion. How many of our companies even turn over

N10billion, before we begin to tax them? So, that is the problem with that, but It

has shown some appetite by some of the big players, and the room for more scope

clearly exists.

The question

about what is

holding Mambilla;

that is a very

important

question.

Mambilla has been

in the front

burner. I think

that this

Administration

can take credit for

having been the

one that finally

issued a binding

contract. There

was never a

binding contract

on Mambilla. All

of the contracts, one thing was wrong; it didn’t pass through FEC… there were

court cases. This was the first time, EPC (Engineering Procurement Contract) was

issued. Now, having issued that contract, as I have said, there’s funding issue by

the Chinese Government. But, there are also issues about demarcating the precise

area to coordinate and we have employed surveyors to do that. FEC approved that

memo working with the Taraba State Government to start that. We were awaiting

their report when I left. That will then lead us to, after defining the territory; for

example, we wanted to build in this Senate, it may well be that the footprint of the

project may not get to your seat, so we have to enumerate all of the senators whose

seats would be affected and who would be paid compensation and draw a

boundary. And from there, of course, some advance work is going on backstage

that people will not see. But some progress has been made.

There was a question about Taraba Central I think from you. I am not sure which

part is Taraba Central now; is it close to (responds to a senator – “I will come to it

Sir”) is it close to Wukari-Takumi area? (Answer probably from the Senator who asked the

question). Bali. I am not quite sure now. I was going to bring your attention to the

Signing of the EPC contract on Mambilla Hydropower Project between the Joint

Venture of the Joint Venture of CGGC-Sinohydro-CGCOC, led by CGCOC,

a subsidiary of CCEC, and Nigeria…on 10 November 2017. Fashola

Imiddle) and former Minister of State in the ministry, Alhaji Mustapha Shehuri

(right) holding the contract folder, their Chinese partners.

Kashimbila project which we had neared the completion of the transmission right

now and I think once that is commissioned, it is possible to extend the width to

some parts of Taraba Central.

The Ibi Bridge, I think, and I have to be careful here; I think it has cleared

procurement now, I am not sure, and I don’t want to say, I can’t recollect very

clearly right now but I think, I think, we awarded it in the Federal Executive

Council.

…Well the policy about displacing people and housing, I think it is a very

important and compassionate point, but I will support a policy along those lines,

but let us remember that the Federal Government is not the one in control of land

and you can’t build houses without land. It is the state governments and state

governors who control land. The models we have started with have actually

proceeded on the basis of asking states to give us land as pilot projects.

…I think there was a question about… I think from Senator Gyang; something

about Akwanga-Jos-Bauchi, I think that road, Phase 1 of it has been awarded.

Phase 2 is under Procurement and the financing approval, we still have to come

back to Parliament because it is funded by a Chinese loan, and I hope that when it

does come, Distinguished Senator Gyang will give support to whoever the minister

assigned to that ministry is, to get the funding for it. But let me again say that,

between policy implementation and results, there is quite some distance that needs

to be covered, and all of us as leaders of government must continue to carry this

message to our people. But I think that Nigeria is making some progress. There’s

infrastructure deficit across the world and none of the Europeans countries now;

the UK, the US, all of them are fighting about making big budgets to rebuild or

renew their infrastructure. So, we are not alone, but we have our work cut out for

us and I believe that it can be done.

I think I will leave it there, Sir. Thank you very much Sir.

(Shouts of ‘bow and go’ from the floor)

President of the Senate: Distinguished colleagues I am not surprised we still have

38 senators who would like to ask questions. As a former minister of Power,

Works and Housing, I am not surprised, but time will not permit us. So, I will call

on the …let me be gender-sensitive…only two…Senator Uche Lillian and Senator

Elisha Ishaku Abbo.

(“Elisha is a man”, shouts a female Senator. Amidst loud and prolonged laughter, she

continues to shout, “Elisha is a man, he is a man, he is not a woman.”)

(Now standing and still laughing, the female senator proceeds to ask her question) Mr

President. Distinguished colleagues. My name is Senator Uche Lilian Ekwunife

(Iyom). Mr President, I am from Anambra State, representing Anambra Central. I

have two questions, but one has been taken care of. So, let me go to the one that

concerns me directly; my constituents too. Congratulations Honourable Minister,

my question is this: the construction of Enugu-Awka-Onitsha Road has prolonged

for too long; it’s been there for too long. It has lingered for so much. I would like

to know: what is holding that road from being completed? Every year, a contractor

will appear and disappear. If you go to the axis of Amawbia; between Amawbia

and Umouku. This is a journey that will take you just three minutes, but it would

take you one hour. From Enugu to Onitsha will ordinarily take you 45 minutes,

but now three hours you are still on the same road. I went to represent Mr

President last Saturday at a function, a journey that would have taken me 40

minutes, I was (not clear) for four and half hours. I wanted to call Mr President to

send me a helicopter to lift me up, but, unfortunately, network was bad too. So, I

would like to know, Honourable Minister, what are you going to do, to, first of all,

put palliatives on the road, to ensure that road users will not continue to suffer,

while the main job of completing the road would come. I will also like you to tell

us the actual story on that road because that road has been there for years. Yes,

thank you very much.

President of the Senate: Well, let me clarify the air, please. I should clear the air.

When I said that I want to be gender-sensitive, I meant to call a female senator and

a male senator. (Loud laughter). So, Senator Abbo.

Senator Ishaku Elisha Abbo (Representing Adamawa North): Thank you so

much, Mr Senate President, seating as the Chair. My name is Senator Ishaku Abbo,

representing people of Adamawa North in the body of the Nigerian Senate. My

question is just straightforward. As a very important voice. As a very important

person, whose voice is respected. As a very important person whose voice is

respected at the Federal Executive Council, I want to know Sir, why in 2019

Budget alone, the Federal Government budgeted over N107billion for railways

alone and the North East was excluded, leaving only Maiduguri Rail; leaving out

now, economically-viable place; towns like Mubi,which is actually the second

biggest market in the whole of Northern Nigeria after Kano State. And, also, the

biggest cow market in the whole of West Africa, leaving it for only road that are

not so good. What is your plan, Sir, of actually extending this railway line to these

places? No. 2. (Shouts of No, no. His own is road), chair, please protect me Sir, protect

me. (Noise subsides). Secondly Sir, since 2013, after a Boko Haram attack, my

people went back home. Till date, the towns of Michika and Madagali is still cut

off from national grid. They are still using candles in the two local governments in

the 21st Century. Our bridge also is still blown up, even though the contract was

awarded in 2016. What is your plan, Sir, to these places? Thank you.

President of the Senate: You can address the questions.

‘President Buhari required his ministers to tackle all inherited projects’

Babatunde Raji Fashola: Thank you Sir. The first question, I think, the story of

the Enugu-Awka Road is true of all of the problems that we met. And I think the

important thing first is that, it may look expected, but it has not happened in a long

time that a government will inherit the projects of its preceding government and

deal with them and own them as if they truly were our own; and it may seem

ordinary, but it

hasn’t

happened…but

that was what Mr

President

required of all his

ministers.

And, so, one of

the problems on

that road, in

context was that,

some of the

contractors to whom it had been awarded had not discharged their obligations as

at when due; not because they were totally blameless, full of blame, because some

of it, must also come back to us; the issue we have spoken about, you budget N10,

you can only raise N3. And if the contractor cannot pay his staff, he can’t lubricate

his equipment, he can’t order granite, laterite, bitumen and pay his suppliers, he

will shut down. Those were the realities. Now, there were also some problems

particularly at the 9th Mile Section and there were issues that required us to

investigate and ultimately change the design. Because there were suspicions that

there might have been some heavy deposits of coal underneath that place that was

making it fail. So, we have resolved all those problems now. The most difficult

section, if I remember, was the Amazia-Umunya section. I was there and I think

they were surfacing it in December. And, I think I sent a team there; the day I was

supposed to go there, I couldn’t get there because of bad weather; because I was to

connect from Port Harcourt. And, my team were there, and I think this was in May

and our contractors were still working. But, trust me, once contractors run out of

money, they will stop work. Contractors don’t keep iron rods, they don’t keep

cement, they don’t keep bitumen, they don’t keep laterite, they don’t keep gravel or

asphalt. They order them when we pay them. So, and, except for basic equipment

that they need to run, they lay off staff too, in order to manage their overheads and

retain profitability. So, that is the big elephant in the room of Nigeria’s

infrastructure. How do we fund that, and I think it is a matter for all of us can

benefit from each other’s experience and learning.

Distinguished Senator Abbo, I am not the minister that was responsible for rail; it

was under the Ministry of Transportation. But, I recall what my colleague used to

tell us at the time, that the cost of the rail from the south east and south-south

through to Maiduguri, which was within his contemplation always, it was

something he was very passionate about was going to cost us multiple of billions of

dollars. If I remember on the top of my head, we were looking at, I think,

something like 12 or 21 billion dollars, and I don’t want to be quoted on this. But,

it was a lot of money and here we are, the funding for the current one had come

from the Chinese; we are looking to raise about $5billion from the Chinese for

Mambilla and all that China has put during the focal lending to the whole of Africa

was just $60billion for 53 countries. So, but, it is a possibility, and I think the way

to look at it is that something has started and therefore if we do one, we will do

two, if we do two, we will get to four and get to eight and get to 16.

Michika and Madagali, I think, the point I want to make here, is that they are

examples; what you feel, what your community feels, are strong reasons, strong

examples of why we must all come together, instead of beating drums of war.

Because when war happens, this is what you see. In my interactions with the Army

Corps of Engineers, because our contractors were leaving the place; they said they

couldn’t work there. So, what we did was to call in the Army Corps of Engineers

to come and take over this road, and we then found out that it was even some of

our own military who blew up the infrastructure as a strategy for containing terror.

So, when war breaks out, people are not, those who fight wars are not about

healthcare, wellbeing. Unfortunately, it is women and children who are the first

victims, and then our infrastructure is destroyed. So, you cannot recognise cities

like homes in Syria and Baghdad in Iraq, anymore; they’ve been levelled by war.

And, what happens thereafter is a rebuilding process. And, I think that it is

important that all of us must learn from what happened in 1966; what it led to and

what followed after: a national reconstruction project. And, I think, that is what we

have started with the North East Development project and I hope the lessons of

the day will endure and take us towards the path of brotherhood and peaceful

coexistence. Thank you.

President of the Senate: Distinguished Senators Oluremi Tinubu, Senator Adeola

Solomon Olamilekan and Senator Sikiru Adebayo Osinowo, you have your task.

Senator Oluremi Tinubu (Representing Lagos Central Senatorial District):

Thank you, Mr President, and I believe that, on behalf of my colleagues, I know

that they are going to say something, to thank my distinguished colleagues for the

support that our honourable minister has enjoyed today, because I know what our

colleagues can do. So, I want to thank you and I am also a senator, so thank you

for even telling us he should take a bow at this point. So, please, I want to really

thank you and also, my only addition is that I remember that even your first tenure,

I didn’t get any chance to give employment letters to my constituents. So, when

you get there this time, just remember senators here, we have people back home

too, our constituents asking us for employment slots, and as senators, we don’t

(responds to an inaudible question)…. Yes, he is qualified, definitely. So, I want you to

put that in your agenda for the second term; that we all need slots for employment

for our constituents. I want to thank my distinguished colleagues again for the

usual support. Thank you very much, Mr President.

President of the Senate: Senator Olamilekan.

Senator Solomon Adeola Olamilekan (Representing Lagos West Senatorial

District): Mr President of the Senate, seating comfortably as the chairman. Very

distinguished colleagues. Let me say that it has been a very, very revealing and very,

very good discussion between the Senate and the ministerial nominee. Mr

President, I want to believe that the ministerial nominee has taken in all questions

and he has provided us adequate answers; telling us his capacity and capability to

perform. He has also made it known to us that, despite our huge expectation,

especially in the three critical sectors, which he held in the last four years, he has

said that the availability of funds has been a major challenge. He also has put

together solutions going forward as to what and what can be done. And, I believe

that with all of this, that we have listened and we have heard from him, I want to

seek the indulgence of the Chair and the benevolence of my colleagues that we

allow the nominee to take a bow and go. Thank you.

President of the Senate: Senator Osinowo

Senator Sikiru Bayo Osinowo

(Representing Lagos East

Senatorial District: Thank you, Mr

Chairman for giving me this

privilege. I thank you. I thank my

senior colleagues, the ranking…I am

almost fed up of ranking, ranking;

even in talking, you called us in

ranking order (laughter in the chamber).

So, I must thank you for calling me

at last. However, Mr Chairman and

distinguished colleagues, I am happy

to be here, and fulfilled today to be

part of you. The man, the nominee

standing over there, is a man of

honour. Sorry to say this, even if you

have a good product, you still need a

little bit of advertisement; because

the more you do the advert, you

advertise, the more the merrier. The

man standing there, he was governor

of Lagos State, that is a known fact.

He is a (gold)fish. The more you ask question, you just want to make him to shine,

because he is a SAN, he is a SAN. With sound mind, so he can take care of the

questions, but where I am going, the man is a lover of democracy and why I must

say this is because of what he contributed in the last eight, nine years in the

development of Lagos and Nigeria, in general, and, of course, to the Parliament. I

would not forget so soon the issue of megacity in Lagos; everybody all over the

world, they are agitating, looking, planning for their state to be a megacity, and this

is a status; you don’t buy it at Mall. It is a status, you earn it. It is possible in Lagos,

the megacity, because of the role he played. He is one of those who make things

happen in Lagos and that singular effort, I am sorry, to measure a state as a

megacity, it is not by your population (loud murmuring), I am sorry, Mr Chairman

(louder murmuring)…Mr Chairman, I am talking, Mr Chairman I believe there is no

preferential treatment in this hall. If you can save others from humiliation, I think

you have to save me too. Thank you, Sir. I am saying this with all assertion,

because for a state to a megacity, all of the states in Nigeria want to be megacity, it

is being combined by your IGR, your population including the infrastructure.

Without infrastructure, with your population and IGR, they can’t give you

megacity. (Loud murmur). Now, where I am going is this, Mr Chairman, we are not

even discussing the issue of megacity in Lagos, we have metamorphosed to the

position of smart city, the like of Europe and Dubai. So, if this man can be

member of those who played that role, I think if there is anything worthy, you are

a worthy person. He is a straightforward person. Honest person. Man of integrity.

Not only that, with uncommon transformation. (Shouts of yea, yea). As a

transformer. And, I am saying this with all assertion: as a transformer, he has

established that, demonstrated that, in Lagos, and as a minister of Federal Republic

of Nigeria. On this note, I am not asking you, Sir, to allow him to take a bow, but I

am appealing, soliciting, that if you give him a soft landing, he is not going to make

you, he is going to make you happy, you will not regret it. Thank you, Mr

President.

President of the Senate: Thank you very much. Distinguished colleagues, you will

agree with me that we have done justice. We could do even more, but time will not

permit. I want to appeal to those who raised their hands but are not able to speak.

We will still have interactions with him when he becomes an Honourable Minister.

Whether it is Works or elsewhere, because I am sure most of us have issues

coming from his sojourn as Minister of Power, Works and Housing. So, I want to

appeal with all of us that we should allow him to take a bow and go. But before I

put that question, let me recognise our former colleagues seated there: Senator

Gbenga Ashafa, Senator Obanikoro, Senator Mudashiru, who was also a member

of the house with us and, of course, honourable members of the House who

accompanied the nominee. I want to thank everyone for this and Honourable

Minister, I want to thank you for responding to the questions, but I think my mind

is also agitated with the fact that we have to think deep and wide enough on how

to fund our infrastructure. Borrowing is an option. Can we really look other ways

to see if we can combine the borrowing with other mechanisms of funding so that

we are able to create the infrastructure that we need for this country. With this, I

put the

question: those

in favour that

the nominee

takes a bow

and go, say

Aye (shout of

Aye), those

against say

Nay (silence).

The Ayes have

it. (Strikes

gavel). You can

take a bow.