(THIS DOCUMENT IS THE PROPERTY 01 HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT) ft g C R E T. COPY NO. CABINET 41 (35) . Meeting of the Cabinet to be held at No. 10, Downing Street, S.W.I., on WEDNESDAY, 31st July, 1935, at 11.0 a.m. AGENDA. 1. FOREIGN AFFAIRS - (if required). 2 * MALTA: PROPOSED LEGISLATION. (Reference Cabinet 5 (35) Conclusion 6). Memorandum by the Secretary of State for the Colonies. (C,I J . 156 (55) - already circulated). 3. REMOVAL OF ROYAL ORDNANCE FACTORIES (WOOL./!OH, ENFIELD, WALTHAM, E T C . ; . Note by the Secretary covering:- Memorandum by the Secretary of State for War covering Report of an Inter-Services Committee. Extract from the 269th Minutes of the Committee of Imperial Defence. Joint Memorandum by the Treasury and the War Office, circulated with the approval of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for War. - (CP. 145 (35) - already circulated). 4. UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE (NORTHERN IRELAND) AGREEMENT. Memorandum by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, covering draft Bill. (CP. 158 (35) - circulated herewith). 5. ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE RECESS. (Reference Cabinet 31 (34)'Conclusion 9) . (Signed) M.P.A. HANKSY. Secretary to the Cabinet. ' V/hi tehall Gardens, S .V.I. , 29th July, 1935. 2
Transcript
(THIS DOCUMENT IS THE PROPERTY 01 HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT)
ft g C R E T. COPY NO.
C A B I N E T 41 (35 ) .
Meet ing o f the Cabinet to be he ld at No. 10, Downing S t r e e t , S . W . I . , on WEDNESDAY, 31st Ju ly , 1935,
at 11.0 a.m.
A G E N D A .
1. FOREIGN AFFAIRS - ( i f r e q u i r e d ) .
2 * MALTA: PROPOSED LEGISLATION.
(Re ference Cabinet 5 (35 ) Conclusion 6 ) .
Memorandum by the Sec re ta ry o f S ta te f o r the Co l on i e s . (C,IJ. 156 (55 ) - a l r eady c i r c u l a t e d ) .
3. REMOVAL OF ROYAL ORDNANCE FACTORIES (WOOL./!OH, ENFIELD, WALTHAM, ETC. ; .
Note by the Sec re ta ry c o v e r i n g : -
Memorandum by the Sec r e ta ry o f State f o r War covering Report of an I n t e r - S e r v i c e s Committee.
E x t r a c t from the 269th Minutes of the Committee of Imper i a l Defence.
Jo in t Memorandum by the Treasury and the War O f f i c e , c i r c u l a t e d w i th the approval o f the Chance l lor of the Exchequer and the Sec r e ta ry of S ta te f o r War.
( C P . 145 (35 ) - a l r e ady c i r c u l a t e d ) .
Memorandum by the Chance l lor o f the Exchequer, cove r ing d r a f t B i l l .
( C P . 158 (35 ) - c i r c u l a t e d h e r e w i t h ) .
5. ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE RECESS.
(Re fe rence Cabinet 31 ( 34 ) 'Conc lus i on 9 ) .
( S i gned ) M.P.A. HANKSY.
Sec r e ta ry t o the Cabinet.
' V / h i t e h a l l Gardens, S . V . I . ,
29th Ju ly , 1935.
2
(THIS DOCUMENT IS THE PROPERTY Oir HIS BRITANNIC M H J E S T Y ' S GOVERNMENT)
^ C E E T, COPY NO.
C A B I N E T 41 ( 3 5 ) .
CONCLUSIONS o f a Meet ing of the Cabinet he ld a t 10, Downing S t r e e t , S.V/.1., on WEDNESDAY,
31st J U L Y , 1935, at 11.0 a.m.
PRESENT:
The Right Hon. Stan ley Baldwin, M. P. Prime M i n i s t e r . ( i n the C h a i r ) .
The R ight Hon. The R ight Hon. J. Ramsay MacDonald, M.P . , N e v i l l e Chamberlain, M.P . , Lord P r es iden t o f the Counc i l . Chance l lo r o f the Exchequer.
The R ight Hon. The R ight Hon. The Viscount Hailsham, S i r John i imon , G. G. 8 . 1 . ,K. C V. 0 Lord Chance l l o r . O.B.E. , K .C. , M.P. , Sec re ta ry o f
S ta t e f o r Home A f f a i r s .
The R ight Hon. The Most Hon. S i r Samuel Hoare, 3t .3 G . C . S . I . , The Marquess of Londonderry, G.3.E. , C.M.G. , M.P . , Secre tary K.G. , M . V . O . , Lord P r i v y Sea l . of S ta te f o r Fore i gn A f f a i r s .
The R ight Hon. The R ight Hon. The Viscount H a l i f a x , K.G. , J.H. Thomas, M.P. , C C S . I . , G . C I . E . , Secre tary Secre tary o f S ta te f o r Dominion of State f o r War. A f f a i r s .
The Right Hon. The Most Hon. Sir P h i l i p C u n l i f f e - L i s t e r , The Marquess o f Ze t land , G . B . E . , 11. C. M . P . , Secre tary o f G . C . S . I . , G.C. I . E . , Sec re ta ry of State f o r A i r . S ta te f o r Ind ia .
s
The Right Hon. The R ight Hon. Sir Godfrey C o l l i n s , K .B.E. , Malcolm MacDonald, M.P. , C.M.G., M.P. , Sec re ta ry o f Secre tary of S ta te f o r the State f o r Scot land. Co l on i e s .
The Right Hon. The Right Hon. Sa l te r Runc iman, M. P. , S i r Bo l ton Eyres Monse l l , G.B.E., Pres ident o f the Board of Trade . M.P. , F i r s t Lord of the
Admira l t y .
The Right Hon. The R ight Hon. Walter E l l i o t , M.C. , Lord Eustace Pe r cy , M.P. , Minister f o r A g r i c u l t u r e ana M i n i s t e r wi thout P o r t f o l i o . F i she r i e s .
The Right Hon. The R ight Hon. Sir K ings l ey Wood, to. P . , O l i v e r S tan l ey , M . C , M.P. , Minister o f Hea l th . P r e s i d en t o f the Board o f
Educat ion.
tJhe R i g h Hon. The R igh t Hon. pnes t Brown, M.C. , M.P. W. Ormsoy-Gore, M.P., Minister of Laoour. F i r s t Commissioner o f "Works.
Colonel S i r M.P.A. Hankey, G.C.B. , G .CM.G . , G.C.V.O. , Sec re ta ry
DISPUTE BETWEEN I^ALY AND ABYSSINIA. fBTHIOPIA) .
H f prev i ous F-" Re ference :
Cabinet 40 II ( 3 5 ) Con-H e lus ion 4 . )
ft ft. .
1. The Secre tary o f S ta t e f o r Fore ign A f f a i r s
informed the Cabinet o f the l a t e s t developments i n
t h e s i t u a t i o n in the I t a l o - A b y s s i n i a n d i s p u t e .
S ince the Meeting o f the Cabinet r e f e r r e d t o in
t h e margin he had. concentrated, h is e f f o r t s on
induc ing France t o r e a l i s e the g r a v i t y o f the
p o s i t i o n . Be had seen the French Ambassador a
few days a go , when the l a t t e r had suggested that
at the for thcoming Meeting, the Counci l o f the
League o f Nat ions should not extend i t s d iscuss ions
outs ide o f the C o n c i l i a t i o n Committee. The
Sec re ta ry of S ta t e had d e l i b e r a t e l y adopted a
somewhat, n e g a t i v e a t t i t u d e towards t h i s proposa l
and. had po in ted out that i t would be use l ess t o do
nothing except t o s t a r t f u r the r d iscuss ions by the
C o n c i l i a t i o n Committee o f Four, as that would
convey the impress ion that the Counci l was
d i s i n t e r e s t i n g i t s e l f in the quest ion to the
advantage o f I t a l y . He be l ieved, tha t h i s remarks
had been passed, on t o P a r i s . A few days l a t e r he
had seen the French Ambassador again and. had.
sugges t ed , f i r s t l y , tha t i f a f i f t h A r b i t r a t o r were
appo in t ed , that would be a new f a c t o r i n the
s i t u a t i o n bu.t not a s u f f i c i e n t one: and. second ly ,
tha t i t might be w e l l f o r a request t o emerge from
t h e Counci l o f the League tha t the -three Powers
s i g n a t o r i e s o f the T r ea t y of 1906 should dea l
w i th the ques t i on u rgen t l y and, i f p o s s i b l e , on
bases t o be l a i d down by the Counci l i t s e l f . The
Counci l might then arrange t o keep i n touch, w i th
the p r o c e e d i n g s , or even t o remain in s e s s i o n .
This would, g i v e a. double procedure : f i r s t , t o
s t r eng then the C o n c i l i a t i o n Committee, and, second,
t h e three -Power t a l k s , watched by the Counc i l ,
That, proposal had been passed on. t o P a r i s , and he
l earned that M. Lava l l i k e d i t . in f a c t
t h e r e were s igns of i t s coming back in the form of a
French p roposa l ' The M in i s t e r f o r League o f Nations
A f f a i r s had seen M. Lava l and had discussed w i th him
the very we ighty Despatch which had been sent to His
M a i e s t y ' s Ambassador in P a r i s , and had r epo r t ed
that M. Lava l l i k e d our p roposa l s , though he thought
i t might be d i f f i c u l t t o get Signor Musso l in i to
accept them. He f e l t t h e r e f o r e , that an advance
had been made, i n so much as the French Government
was now f u l l y a l i v e t o the dangers of l e t t i n g matters
d r i f t , a*nd he thought they could be r e l i e d upon t o
put a l l pressure on I t a l y , In r e p l y t o a quest ion
as t o ho^ he envisaged, the r e l a t i o n between the
three -Power Meet ing and the Counc i l , he exp la ined
tha t h i s proposa l would b r ing the Counci l up aga ins t
r e a l i t i e s . He was most anxious t o secure p r e c i s i o n
in the three-Power d i s c u s s i o n s . His idea was that the
Counci l should e i t h e r adjourn f o r a week or two, or
keep in be ing t o watch the three-Power t a l k s . I f
the Counci l d id not formulate the genera l l i n e s on
which the three-Power ta lks should take p l a ce , he
would no t , f o r that, r eason , d es i s t from working f o r
these d i s c u s s i o n s . In r e p l y to another ques t i on ,
he thought i t doubt fu l whether t h e Abyss in ian d e l e g a t e
would wish, t o open the l a r g e ques t i on , notwi thstanding
the s i n i s t e r tu rn o f r e c en t e v en t s , i f he saw a
prospec t of progress be ing made a long the l i n e s
suggested, above . . I f , .however, the Abyss inian d e l e g a t e
should, press f o r a d i s cuss ion from, a wider po int o f
v i ew the Counci l would have t o cons ider the m a t t e r .
Much depended, on how f a r i t was found p o s s i b l e t o
b r i n g p r e c i s i o n i n t o the three-Power t a l k s ,
THE SUPPLY OP /EMS TO
lAPYSSBITA.
I(Pr evi ous l T^gf er enc e t I Cabinet f^9^ I ( 5 5 ) , Con-I clus ion S . ) I
AH,
SPEECHES.
In the d i s cuss i on the quest ion was ra i s ed as to
what a t t i t u d e would be taken i f the B r i t i s h r e p r e s e n t
a t i v e were asked t o say whether the Uni ted Kingdom
was prepared t o f u l f i l i t s o b l i g a t i o n s under the
Covenant , I t was explained that the M i n i s t e r f o r
League o f Nat ions A f f a i r s would adopt the l i n e of the
Despatch sent t o P a r i s , as suggested at a Meet ing o f crirtiQcdiOH^
the Cab inet , namely, that both we an 1 France hadJour CLcW We S&otJd Caaxy cur agmroitmerot8/ and t h e r e f o r e were g r e a t l y concerned to
see that the emergency d id not deve lop to the po int
where the ques t i on of t h e i r f u l f i l m e n t a r o s e .
^he qi e s t i o n was a l so ra i s ed as t o how long the
d e c i s i o n r e f e r r e d t o in the margin should, be maintained,
v i s . , that we "should not f o r the present i ssue
l i c e n c e s f o r the expo r ta t i on of arms or munitions of
war t o e i t h e r T t a l v or A b y s s i n i a " .
There was genera l agreement that i f a new
s i t u a t i o n should ari.se the Secre tary o f S ta te f o r
Fore i gn A f f a i r s should reopen the m a t t e r .
The Secre tary o f s t a t e f o r Fore i gn A f f a i r s made '
the f o l l o w i n g reques t t o M in i s t e r s who might contem
p l a t e r e f e r r i n g t o the I t a l o - A b y s s i n i a n d i spute in
pub1ic s p e e c h e s :
( l ) That they should be c a r e fu l not t o convey any idea that the s i t u a t i o n was hope l ess .
(s) That, they should be extremely cautious in any r e f e r ences as t o what t h i s country would or would not do i n the event o f an outbreak o f h o s t i l i t i e s .
The Secre tary o f S ta t e undertook t o communicate w i th the Prime M in i s t e r or whoever was a c t i n g f o r him i n the event of any new s i t u a t i o n d e v e l o p i n g .
(For Cabinet arrangements during the Recess in connect ion w i th the I t a l o - A b y s s i n i a n d i s put e , s ee C one lus ion 6 . )
T h eggTSS AIR * ' s e c r e t a r y o f S ta t e f o r Fo re i gn A f f a i r s
r e P 0 P t e d t h a t h e a tg S S ! * ' a s i l l t r y i n g to make progress w i th the A i r Pac t , but at the moment had nothing
(Previous s p e c i a l t o r e o o r t . Reference: Cabinet .56 ( 7 5 ) . Conelusion 8 . )
MALTA.
Propos ed L e g i s l a t i o n .
( Prev ious Re fe rence : Cabinet 5 ( 55 ) , Cone lus ion 6 . )
-3.The Cabinet had b e f o r e them a Memorandum by
the Secretary of S ta t e f o r the Colonies (0 .P.-156
( 3 5 ) ) asking au thor i t y to in t roduce next Sess ion
a B i l l t o r epea l the Malta Cons t i tu t i on L e t t e r s Vcdida if
Patent and t o i n v a l i d a t e ' i f that proved t o be
necessa ry ) e ve ry th ing done dur ing the p r o v i s i o n a l
reg ime s ince the suspension o f Par l iamentary
Government i n Malta in 1933. This proposa l did
not r a i s e any i ssue new to h i s c o l l e a g u e s , but he
i n v i t e d r e f e r e n c e t o c e r t a i n Memoranda by h i s
predecessor i n o f f i c e and t o the Conclusions o f the
0 abinet r e l a t i n g t h e r e t o .
A f t e r hear ing a f u l l statement by the Secre tary
o f S ta te f o r the Co l on i e s , in which he deve loped
the var i ous po ints in h i s Memorandum, the Cabinet
That the Secre tary o f S ta t e f o r the C o l on i e s should be author i s ed t o prepare a B i l l t o r e p e a l the. Malta, C o n s t i t u t i o n L e t t e r s P a t e n t , with a v iew to the s e t t i n g up by Order in Counc i l of a form of Government in which the supreme l e g i s l a t i v e and e x e c u t i v e power should remain w i th the Governor , w i th a Counci l t o a s s i s t
OYAL ORDINANCE 4 . The Cabinet had b e f o r e them the f o l l o w i n g aCTCRIES —
T/OVAL OF. documents on the sub jec t of the removal o f Royal
Ordnance Fac t o r i e s (Woolwich, F n f i e l d , Walt-ham e t c . )
$$($M)^- c i r c u l a t e d by d i r e c t i o n o f the Prime M i n i s t e r (C . P . 145 ( 3 5 ) ) : -
A Memorandum by the Sec re ta ry of S ta te f o r War," cove r ing the Report o f an I n t e r - S e r v i c e s Committee:
An Extrac t from the Minutes o f the 269th Meet ing of the Committee of Imper ia l De fence :
A Jo int Note by the Treasury and the War O f f i c e , c i r c u l a t e d w i th the approva l o f the Chance l lo r o f the Fxcheq\:er and the Secre tary of S ta te f o r War.
The d i scuss ion focussed. mainly on the proposal
conta ined in the Jo in t Note by the t r easury and the
War O f f i c e i n favour of the adopt ion o f Chor ley , in tfu i?pyaJL littlea T&CI'^^
Lancash i r e , as the s i t e f o r throov o f the Royal
4$&At**am-. Whi le Chorley was general ! ;/ accepted as a
s u i t a b l e s i t e f o r the main f a c t o r y , the advantages
o f South Wa les , from the po in t of v i ew o f unemploy
ment, were p r e ssed . Emphasis was l a i d on the psychol
o g i o a l importance o f g i v i n g some h e l p t o i s o l a t e d
s p e c i a l a r e a s , the populat ions o f which i t was
d i f f i c u l t t o move t o other c e n t r e s , and which were
l i a b l e t o become embi t te red by the f a c t that they
f e l t themselves boyco t t ed because t h e i r record was
a bad one. The advantages from the po in t o f v iew o f
i n d u s t r i a l expansion o f hav ing more than one e s t ab
l ishment were admi t t ed , but t h i s was sa id t o inc rease
t h e cos t r a the r s e r i o u s l y . I n c i d e n t a l l y in the
d i s cuss i on the ques t ion was raised, o f the d e s i r a b i l i t y
o f d e a l i n g w i th the f l oods e s p e c i a l l y in the entrances
to the v a l l e y s , which a re a bar t o development i n
South Wa l e s .
The quest ion was a l s o r a i s e d of the s o c i a l
e f f e c t o f the removal on Woolwich, the cent re o f a
g r e a t c o - o p e r a t i v e movement and o f ex t ens i v e housing
schemes .
A f t e r cons ide rab l e discuss ion the Cabinet
agreed —
m o( a ) accept the f o l l o w i n g recommendation by the Committee o f Imper ia l De fence , v i z . :
" f a ) To approve in p r i n c i p l e the recommendations o f the Report o f th e C omm i t t e e on th e r em ova 1 o f the Royal Ordnance Fac to r i e s forwarded wi th the Memorandum, by the See re ta r v o f S ta te f o r War ( 6 . I . D . Paper No . 208-A)
( b ) That the Secre tary o f S ta te for War should have a u t h o r i t y , a f t e r such examinat ion of the Chorley s i t e as he might deem necessary having regard t o the r i s k o f l eakage i f the re were t oo g rea t de l ay , t o proceed, subject t o Treasury consent , w i th the purchase o f a s i t e at Chor ley , i n Lancash i r e :
f e ) That the Secretary o f S ta t e f o r War, i n c onsu l t a t i on w i th the M i n i s t e r o f Health and other M in i s t e r s as r e q u i r e d , should form an Inter--Departmental Committee, composed o f r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o f -
The War O f f i c e , The T reasury , The M i n i s t r y o f Heal th, "he M in i s t r y of Labour, m h e Sco t t i sh O f f i c e
w i t h i n s t r u c t i o n s t o consider fon the assumption that the p r i n c i p a l part o f the establ ishments conoerned would be removed to Chor l ey , in. Lancashire ) the f o l l o w i n g qti.estions :
f l ) The p o s s i b i l i t y and d e s i r a b i l i t y of e s t a b l i s h i n g some part o f the
"$vuc& iiliuiq tCLdbUf /p^ep-es-ed now fao-%-e^4es at. some v v s i t e in South Wa l e s :
( 2 ) n h e best s i t e f o r the Co rd i t e Factory at Walt-ham whenever i t should, be dec ided t o move i t :
( 3 ) The bes t means o f m i t i g a t i n g the s o c i a l consequences of the removal in the Woolwich a rea , inc lud ing such matters as the e f f e c t on housing and the Woolwich Co -ope ra t i v e S o c i e t y .
( d ) That the utmost secrecy should be preserved, f o r the present as t o th i s dec i s i o n .
pevious ffeerenco: f f inet 46 1 ) , Conlusion 7 ) .
1 4 2 A % w
5. The Cabinet had be fo re them a Memorandum by the
Chance l lo r or the Exchequer ( C P . -158 ( 3 5 ) ) on the
8'ob j e c t of a new Agreement with Northern I r e l and on
Unemployment Insurance , which r equ i r ed to be conf irmed
by l e g i s l a t i o n in ooth c o u n t r i e s . The Chance l lo r
astced au tho r i t y of the Cabinet f o r the Treasury to hand
in a F inanc ia l R e s o l u t i ,,n on the n i gh t o f July 31st and
to introduce a B i l l on the l i n e s of the p r e l im inary d r a f t
a t tached to h i s Memorandum as soon as opportuni ty o f f e r e d
in the autumn.
The Secre tary of S ta t e f o r Scot land informed the
Cabinet that on the p r e v i ous evening he had sent a l e t t e r
to the Chance l lo r of the Exchequer, in forming him o f
c e r t a i n r e a c t i ons which the new agreement would produce
in bco t l and , and ask ing t h a t , i f p o s s i b l e , there should
be some de lay in handing in the F inanc i a l R e so lu t i on , so
as t o g i v e him time t o take the necessary s teps t o avo id
the threa tened d i f f i c u l t i e s . Ho h imse l f had only
r e c e i v e d C P . - 1 5 8 (35 ) on July i39tn and had only been
ab le to w r i t e to the Chance l l o r o f the Exchequer on the
p rev i ous evening .
A f t e r some d i scuss ion the Chancel lor o f the Exchequer
asiced that he might be l e f t t o d iscuss the matter w i th
the Sec re ta ry o f S ta te f o r Sco t l and , whose v/ishes he
undertook to meet so f a r as t h i s might prove p o s s i b l e .
The Cabinet a g r e e d :
to approve in p r i n c i p l e the Memorandum by the Chance l lo r of the Exchequer ( C P . - 1 5 8 ( 5 5 ) ) l e a v i n g to the Chance l lo r o f the exchequer and the Sec re ta ry o f S ta te f o r Scot land t o s e t t l e the date on -which the F inanc i a l Reso lu t i on should be handed i n .
m CABINET iRRANGEM^RTS !R THE RECESS.
6.
the
On the
Cabinet
suggest ion of
agreed to the
the Prime
f o l l o w i n g
M i n i s t e r
arrangements
gg^vious Reference: [Cabinet 31 p 4 ) Conl i u s i on 9 ) .
f o r the R e c e s s :
( a ) That dar ing the Prime M i n i s t e r ' s ausence abroad, the Lord P r es iden t of the Counci l should ac t f o r him, and i f the Lord P res iden t should h imse l f go abroau, the Chancel lor of the Exchequer should ac t f o r the
. Prime M i n i s t e r U n t i l h i s r e tu rn .
( b ) That i f the M Prime M in i s t e necessary to M in i s t e r s he only those wi London. In a r e a l emerge n e e t i o n , for I t a l o - A b y s s in summon a f u l l in which case h imse l f would
i n i s t e r a c t i n g f o r the r should deem i t ho ld a Meet ing of should normal ly summon th in easy reach o f the even t , however, o f ncy a r i s i n g in conexamp1e, v i t h the ian d i spu t e , he should Meeting o f the Cabinet , the Prime M i n i s t e r r e turn .
That a Meet ing o f the Cabinet should be he ld on Tuesday, September 24th, t o deal w i th immediate bus iness , but that only those Members should be summoned who were w i th in convenient reach.
( d ) That r e gu l a r Meet ings o f the Cabinet should beg in on Wednesday, October 2nd, when the Prime M i n i s t e r hoped that a l l of h i s co l l eagues "would be . p resent .
( e ) That as regards the I ta lo- -Abyss in ian d i spu t e , the Secre tary o f S ta te f o r Fore ign A f f a i r s , who would be w i th in easy reach of London, should iceep the Cabinet M i n i s t e r a c t i ng f o r the time be ing f o r the Prime M in i s t e r in c l o se touch v/ith a l l developments in the s i t u a t i o n , and should inform him i f he deemed any Meet ing of M in i s t e r s t o be necessary .
( f ) That Cabinet M in i s t e r s should inform the Secre tary t o the Cabinet as to t h e i r addresses and changes o f address , whether they were a t home or abroad, in order that the Sec r e ta ry might be ao i e t o summon the Meet ing at short n o t i c e i r d e s i r ed by the M in i s t e r a c t i ng f o r the Prime M i n i s t e r .
m * Whitehall Gardens, "it 1 o 9a
31st Ju ly , 1935.
. pQGUMENT' j g mtTy? PROPERTY OF HIS BRI^A^NTO MAJESTY1 S GOVERNMENT.)
S E 0 R F ^ - COPY Bo ,
CONCLUSIONS OF A CONVERSATION AT No,10. DOWNING- STREET ON TUESDAY AUGUST S 19 35, ' at 3 .30 p .m.
R E S F N T : -
The R ight T r on. Stanley Baldwin, M.P . , Prin?e F i n i s t er .
Tjie Right pon. S i r Samuel Poare F t . r j r Q T f i T5 c n w f i i f u Sec re ta ry o f S ta te f o r Fore ign A.f f a i r s
The R ight Fort. Anthony Eden, M,C . ,M,P , , Minister. f o r League of Nat ions A f f a i r s .
Car Robert Vans i t t a r t , G .C.M.G. ,F .C .P . ,M ,v.o . Permanent Under-Secretary of S ta te f o r Fo re i gn A f f a i r s .
Co lone l S i r M.P .A . Fankey, G .C ,B . ,G .C .M.G . ,6 .0 .v .0 Secre tary t o the Cab ine t .
This Meet ing was he ld in order t o enable the
M i n i s t e r f o r Lea'gue of Nations A f f a i r s to r epo r t
the r e s u l t s of the r ecent Meet ing of the Council,
of the League o f Nat ions at Geneva t o the Prime
M i n i s t e r and the Secre tary o f S t a t e f o r Fore ign
A f f a i r s , and. f o r the three M in i s t e r s to confer on
the l i n e t o be taken by the M in i s t e r f o r League of
Nat ions A f f a i r s at the forthcoming Meetings of the
t h r e e Powers s i g n a t o r i e s to the Abyss in ian Trea ty
o f 19 06 .
The Minister for League of Nations Affairs reported that at Geneva the French representatives had acted markedly in line with.the British, ^his applied especially to M. leger.
Tt was noted that this development was in conformity with the wishes o"(55), Conclusion 1 ) .
Ministers were informed that the probable course of events next week would be Anglo-French Conversations for a day or two after which the tripartite discussions would, begin.
Tn the course of the discussion reference was made to an interim Memorandum by the Chiefs of Staff Sub-Committee on the military implications of the application of Article XVI of the Covenant of the League of Nat ions (C.0 .S-388) which had been sent to the e
Ministers present pending the working out of details, which was still in progress .
The attitude to be adopted, by the Minister for League of Nations Affairs at the forthcoming Meetings. and. certain other matters arising consecuentiallv, v,ere discussed and Conclusions were reached which may be summarised, as follows:
(a.) That the Minister for League of Nations Affairs should do his utmost to maintain the close relations already established with the French Government on the Italo- -Abyssinian d1spute:
(b) That, in the preliminary conversations with the French Government, his aim should be to establish a programme for later dis cuss ion w i th th e Ital ian repres entat ive. Tbis programme would, orobablv have to be drawn in such manner as to bring, home to the Italian representative that the ultimate choice before Italy lay between th e foilowing alt ernat ives:(i) Acceptance from Abyssinia of certain
concessions on points in the Italian case which His Majesty's G-overnment have already told the British
;:. Ambassador in Pome (who did not have occasion to use them.) that they could support, if the case was made out, viz.:
"' the Cabinet (Cabinet 40 1
4 N N 1 4 6
" ( l ) in so f a r as th rea t s t o , or v i o l a t i o n s of , the I t a l i a n f r o n t i e r s a re concerned:
( 2 ) in r e spec t o f aggress ions s-nch as Walwal a f f r a y i f proved against. Abyss in ia t o bpr s a t i s f a c t i o n and that o f the League of N a t i o n s :
( ? ) in r e spec t of breaches - i f proven - of t r e a t i e s between I t a l v and Abyss in ia 1 . Further
( 4 ) in a. genera l way His Ma j e s t y ' s Government would be w i l l i n g to support" I t a l y in p r ess ing Abyss in ia t o permit to I t a l i a n s and other f o r e i g n e r s the usual and r eason ab le f a c i l i t i e s f o r t r a d e , h a b i t a t i o n e t c . w i th regard t o which she has been o b s t r u c t i v e i n the pas t :
( 5 ) as regards s l a v e r y His Ma jes ty ' ? Government could support, i n s i s t e n c e on Abyss i n i a p u t t i n g in to f o r c e such future measures as the l eague may think necessary and. remedying past f a i l u r e s to carry out her o b l i g a t i o n s in t h i s m a t t e r . "
(Telegram to Rome Ho.555. o f July Ig j th. )
I t was f o r e s e e n , however, that the re was no prospect o f so l i m i t e d a programme s u f f i c i n g t o b r ing I t a l y t o an accommodation. T i e i n d i c a t i o n s were that the French Government would propose t o apply j o i n t suasion at Addis Ababa with, a v iew t o e x t r a c t i n g a maximum o f f e r from A b v s s i n i a . I t was a l s o po inted out that the more a t t r a c t i v e the o f f e r t o be induced the b e t t e r would be the o rosoec t s o f the f i r s t course and the l e s s the prospect of hav ing t o cons ider the a l t e r n a t i v e course be low, Po s s i b l y the French Government might have other add i t i ons t o sugges t , and. the M i n i s t e r f o r League o f Nat ions A f f a i r s might , at h i s d i s c r e t i o n , remind them that they had never made any concession t o I t a l y comparable w i th the B r i t i s h cess ion of Jubaland.
OR
f n ) Vhe ca r r y ing out by the League o f Nat ions o f the procedure l a i d down in the Covenant, i n c l u d i n g , i n the last, r e s o r t , c ons ide ra t i on by the members of the League o f t h e i r o b l i g a t i o n s thereunder .
In any r e f e r e n c e to t h i s l a t t e r aspect the M in i s t e r f o r League of Nations A f f a i r s should be guided, by the approva l g i v en by the Cabinet t o the l i n e s suggested, by the Secre tary of S ta t e f o r Fore i gn A f f a i r s on Wednesday, - July 24th, where he i n d i cated that in d iscuss ions w i th the French
"The unde r l y ing assumption would be tha t both Powers r ea l i s ed , t h e i r o b l i g a t i o n s and were j o i n t l y i n t e r e s t e d t o f ind a way out o f -the d i f f i c u l t y " .
Ann14 (
The M i n i s t e r f o r League o f Nat ions A f f a i r s would, of course , "be on h i s guard aga inst g i v i n g the French Government any" oppor tun i t y t o suggest t o I t a l y that we were p r e s s i n g them to commit themselves to s a n c t i o n s . Any d e t a i l e d ' d i s cuss i on o f sanct ions should be avo ided , as th i s does not a r i s e at present and, i f i t a r i s e s a t a l l , be longs r a t h e r to d i s c u s s ions at a l a t e r ' s t a g e .
( c ) That the M in i s t e r f o r League of Nations A f f a i r s who would be accompanied by the Permanent Under Secre tary o f S ta t e f o r Fore i gn A f f a i r s in P a r i s , shouId, as f a r as poss ib1e , keep in touch wi th the Prime M i n i s t e r , who would, be in France at the t ime of the Mee t ings , and i n p a r t i c u l a r should arrange t o r e p o r t the p o s i t i o n v e r b a l l y t o him a f t e r the conc lus ion o f the Meet ings , in order that he might dec ide whether , and when, to summon a Meet ing of the Cab ine t . I t appeared probable to the M in i s t e r s present that i f the Pa r i s Meet ings did. not produce a s a t i s f a c t o r y r e s u l t , a Meet ing of the Cabinet would be r equ i r ed be f o r e the end of August, when important dec i s i ons might be necessa ry .
Lake Tsana .
( d ) That i f the three-Power Conference should n o t a eh i ev e a s a *" is fa c t o ry r e s u l t , th e ques t i on o f Lake Tsana would become impor tant , and. the M in i s t e r f o r League o f Nations A f f a i r s should have d i s c r e t i o n t o warn the I t a l i a n r e p r e s e n t a t i v e that t h i s was an important B r i t i s h i n t e r e s t . He might r epea t the warning g i v e n by S i r Edward Grey ( a f t e rwards Earl Grey o f Fa l l odon ) in 1915:
( e ) That in the meantime the Fore i gn Off iceshould examine the quest ion o f Lake Tsana in i t s p o l i t i c a l and. t e c h n i c a l a spe c t s , and consul t the Defence Departments on any aspects o f the au es t ion whi ch might cone er n them:
Defence Aspec t s . ( f ) That the Secre tary t o the C-abinet and Committee
o f Imper ia l Defence should, inform the Chiefs o f S t a f f Sub-Committee that the Prime M in i s t e r would, be g lad i f they would cons ider the f o l l o w i n g q u e s t i o n s :
( 1 ) At once t o examine the ques t ion of what the p o s i t i o n would be i f I t a l y took the b i t between her t e e t h :
( S ) On the assumption that- the cont ingency r e f e r r e d t o in ( l ) might take p l a c e , are th e r e any steps that ought t o be taken at once t o p rov ide aga inst i t ?
In t h i s l a t t e r connect ion the Secre tary o f s t a t e f o r Fore i gn A f f a i r s sa id tha t the Fore i gn O f f i c e would have no o b j e c t i o n t o
any r e l a t i v e l y qu i e t s teps be ing , taken, such as , f o r example, the r a i s i n g o f the a n t i - a i r c r a f t , defences o f Malta t o the approved s c a l e . They would not even ob jec t i f the movement o f a n t i - a i r c r a f t guns became pub l i c .
Whi tehal l Gardens. S.W.1
August 6, 1935.
THIS DOCUMENT IS THE PROPERTY OF HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT
TO BE KEPT UNDER LOCK A N D KEY.
It is requested that special care may be taken to ensure the secrecy of this document.
? . A . / H / 7 . . COPY N O .
C A B I N E T ,
I T A L 0 -ABYS SI 111 AH D I S P U T E .
C o n f e r e n c e o f M i n i s t e r s h e l d a t N o . 1 0 D o v m i n g S t r e e t on W e d n e s d a y 5 ^ l s t A u g u s t s 1 9 3 5 a t 5 . 0 p . m . s
P R E S E N T .
T h e S i g h t H o n . S t a n l e y B a l d v / i n s M . P . 9
P r i m e M i n i s t e r . ( i n t h e C h a i r )
The R i g h t H o n . J . R a m s a y T h e R i g h t H o n . N e v i l l e C h a m b e r l a i n 9
M a c D o n a l d j M . P . 9 L o r d P r e s i d e n t M . P . s C h a n c e l l o r o f t h e I o f t h e C o u n c i l . E x c h e q u e r .
The R i g h t H o n . S i r J o h n S i m o n , T h e R i g h t H o n . S i r S a m u e l H o a r e s
; G . C . S . I . , K . C . V . 0 . , O . B . E . , B t . j G o C . S . 1 . j G . B . E . j C . M . C 9
K .C. j M . P . , S e c r e t a r y o f M . P . s S e c r e t a r y o f o t a t e f o r : S t a t e f o r t h e Home D e p a r t m e n t . F o r e i g n A f f a i r s .
T h e R i g h t H o n . A n t h o n y E d e n , M . C . s
M . P . , M i n i s t e r f o r L e a g u e o f N a t i o n s A f f a i r s .
Th "OLLOY/ING WERE ALSO P R E S E N T :
S i r f i l l i a m M a l k i n , K . C . M . G . , M r . W. S t r a n g e C M . G . 9
\ G.B. , K . C . 3 L e g a l A d v i s e r . , C o u n s e l l o r 5 F o r e i g n O f f i c e I F o r e i g n O f f i c e ( f o r p a r t o f ( f o r p a r t o f t i m e ) . 3 t i m e ) .
j p ' F r a n c i s H e m m i n g 9 C . B . E . . . . . J o i n t
Ip- W . D . W i l k i n s o n s D . S . O . , M.C. ) S e c r e t a r i e s .
/
The Meeting was h e l d f o r the purpose of a p r e l im ina ry
d i s cuss i on of the l a t e s t phase of the I t a l o - E t h i o p i a n
dispute5 the i n t e n t i o n be ing t o c l e a r the ground t o some
ex tent in order t o e xped i t e the business at the Cabinet
of the f o l l o w i n g day.
THE MINISTER FOR LEAGUE OF NATIONS AFFAIRS tiave h i s
col leagu.es an account of the proceed ings at the Three-Power
Conversat ions in P a r i s . The order of events had been as
f o l l o w s .
15th August.
Tnis day had been devoted to in formal
p repara to ry conversat ions i M. Lava l and Mr. Eden
had seen Signor A l o i s i s e p a r a t e l y . S ignor
A l o i s i had put f o rward as a b a s i s f o r d i s cuss i on
the sugges t ion that the Uni ted Kingdom and
France should g i v e some pub l i c r e c o g n i t i o n o f
I t a l y ' s need f o r expansion, and should recogn ise
a l s o that I t a l y had a s p e c i a l p o s i t i o n , both
economic and p o l i t i c a l , in Abyss in i a . Signor
A l o i s i had made i t c l e a r that economic concess ions
in Abyss in ia would be of no va lue t o I t a l y un less
those concess ions had the backing of an I t a l i a n
m i l i t a r y g a r r i s o n .
In re turn f o r these d e c l a r a t i o n s S i gnor
A l o i s i had o f f e r e d an assurance of I t a l i a n
co - ope ra t i on at Geneva.
Mr. Eden had made i t c l e a r that the above
sugges t ions (which amounted p r a c t i c a l l y t o
g i v i n g I t a l y a Class C Mandate) of:': e red no hope
of a s o l u t i o n .
16th August.
p l r s t r e gu la r sess i on of the Conference ,
Mr. Eden had made i t c l e a r tha t t h i s country
Confe rence . G-ignor Musso l in i reserved, h i s r i gh t to
make a statement of h i s case at Geneva.
In re-ply to an enquiry whether he had any
a l t e r n a t i v e sugges t ions to put f o rward , Signor A l o i s i
had t o l d Mr. hden that the I t a l i a n v iew remained
e x a c t l y as i t had been deve loped t o him (Mr. Eden) +
e a r l i e r i n the y ea r .
A hreak had now keen recogn ised to he i n e v i t a b l e
and the Communique which had appeared in the Press
had been drawn up.
19th August.
The Conference b e i n g over , Gignor A l o i s i and
Mr. Eden had taken t h e i r f a r e w e l l s o f M. L a v a l , who
had convened i t . No p a r t i c u l a r meaning need be
a t tached t o the f a c t tha t S i rno r A l o i s i had not asked
f o r a fu r the r t a l k w i th Mr. Eden that day - they had
p a r t e d on f r i e n d l y terms the p r e v i ous even ing .
Mr. Dden's t a l k w i t h M. Lava l had made i t c l e a r
tha t the l a t t e r had not y e t f u l l y thought out the
i m p l i c a t i o n s of the Meet ing on September 4th. He had .
s a i d , however, that Prance d id not want to turn her
back on the Uni ted Kingdom and what i t s tood f o r 5 he
begged , n e v e r t h e l e s s , that the B r i t i s h Government would
r e a l i s e p rance ' s o V i f f i c u l t i e s .
* The M in i s t e r f o r League of Nat ions A f f a i r s reminded h is c o l l e a g u e s that the I t a l i a n -proposal, as Gignor Musso l in i had deve loped i t in the Spr ing of the present year, had been that I t a l y should, acqui re the sove re i gn ty over a c i r c u l a r area i n c lud ing about t w o - t h i r d s of the popu la t i on of Abyss in ia - i n f a c t ove r a l l Abyss in ia except a c e n t r a l p l a t e a u . Over t h i s p l a t eau I t a l y wished f o r a P r o t e c t o r a t e .
These were Gignor M u s s o l i n i ' s proposa ls f o r a p e a c e f u l l y n e g o t i a t e d s e t t l e m e n t . On the o ther hand, he had sa id that i f i t came t o a war he would wipe Abyss in ia o f f the map.
THE- SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS regarded
the harmonious Anglo-French f r on t which had been maintained
up to the present time as an unexpectedly good f a c t o r .
I t had been understood in P a r i s that the I t a l i a n s had put
eve ry s o r t of pressure on Mo Lava l to come down on t h e i r
s i d e ; they had been g i v i n g i t out i n P a r i s that the
B r i t i s h Empire was i n a s t a t e of d e c l i n e , e s p e c i a l l y from
the m i l i t a r y po in t o f v i ew . I t was s i g n i f i c a n t that M.
Lava l had not l i s t e n e d to them. I t was no t , o f course ,
p o s s i b l e t o judge how long the present un i ted fxjont would
ho ld .
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL enquired whether
Mo Lava l had g i v en any i n d i c a t i o n of h i s probable a t t i t u d e
a t Geneva on September 4 th .
THE MINISTER FOR LEAGUE OF NATIONS AFFAIRS sa i d
that he h imse l f had r e c e i v e d no i n d i c a t i o n . S i r Robert
V a n s i t t a r t , however, had ob ta ined the impress ion fro:m h i s
t a l k s w i th Me Leger that France would be prepared to take
pa r t i n economic sanc t i ons .
I n c i d e n t a l l y S i r Robert had obta ined ve ry d e f i n i t e
impress ions of the ex tent o f the I t a l i a n propaganda i n
P a r i s . The I t a l i a n s had been go ing about speaking o f
Abyss in i a as the f i r s t s tage i n t h e i r A f r i c a n conquests ;
of s e i z i n g domination i n the Medi terranean from B r i t i s h
hands, and in genera l o f renewing the g l o r i e s o f the Roman
Empire.
THE PRIME MINISTER enquired whether S i r Samuel
Hoare has any in fo rmat ion r ega rd ing Germany's i n t e n t i o n s .
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS s a i d
that the Prime M i n i s t e r ' s ques t ion r a i s ed the whole problem
of how f a r the non-Member S t a t e s would p a r t i c i p a t e i n
economic sanc t i ons . The non-Member S t a t e s which i t was
necessary t o cons ider were the Uni ted S t a t e s , Germany,
Japan and B r a z i l .
His v iew v/as that these S t a t e s might conce i vab l y
be induced t o take par t i n economic sanc t ions . The
chances of t h e i r doing so were , he thought , improved by
the l a t e s t i n v e s t i g a t i o n s of the Fo r e i gn O f f i c e ,wh i ch had
d i s c l o s e d the p o s s i b i l i t y of apply ing economic sanct ions
i n two separate s t a g e s . Whi le there cou ld be no hope o f
non-member S ta t e s p a r t i c i p a t i n g in a second and mere
s t r i n g e n t s t a g e , the re v/as no reason why they should not
p a r t i c i p a t e i n a f i r s t s tage - i . e . i n sanct ions i n v o l v i n g
no b e l l i g e r e n t a c t i o n . . Such measures might be n e g a t i v e ,
not p o s i t i v e . For example, the S ta t e s p a r t i c i p a t i n g might
simply r e fus e to accept imports from I t a l y . I f the
g r e a t e r par t of the wor ld went even as f a r as that the
e f f e c t on I t a l y might be c ons i d e rab l e .
In p a r t i c u l a r , h e had been i n touch w i th the
Uni ted S t a t e s Charge" d ' A f f a i r e s 0 The l a t t e r ' s Government
were t ak ing the Abyss in i an quest ion very s e r i o u s l y , and
t h e i r p a r t i c i p a t i o n i n the f i r s t s tage o f economic
sanct ions d i d not appear i n conce i v ab l e .
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL enquired
whether S i r Samuel Hoare had had i n mind that the s tep o f
r e f u s i n g to expor t t o I t a l y might be r e s e r v e d f o r the
second s t a g e .
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS was
i n c l i n e d t o th ink tha t t h i s might be w i s e . Obv ious ly
such a sanct ion would be v a s t l y more e f f e c t i v e than a
r e f u s a l t o admit impor ts .
The Sec r e t a r y o f S ta te went on to say that the
M i n i s t e r f o r League o f Nat ions A f f a i r s and h imse l f , a f t e r
c o n s i d e r i n g the p o s i t i o n at home and abroad, were c l e a r
i n a d v i s i n g t h e i r c o l l e a gues that i t was nothing l e s s than
e s s e n t i a l t o f o l l o w the r e gu l a r League o f Nat ions
procedure i n t h i s c r i s i s . The Counci l Mee t ing on
September 4th was the necessary f i r s t s t e p . Events a t
t h i s Meet ing might take s e v e r a l turns ; one p o s s i b i l i t y
was that they might deve lop in the f o l l o w i n g s t a g e s .
F i r s t Stage Report on the Three Power Conversat ions i n P a r i s - i f p o s s i b l e a J o i n t Report by Mr. Eden and M. L a v a l .
Second S tage . I t a l i a n Statement ( p robab l y l eng thy ) of t h e i r case and Abyss in ian answer.
Th i rd S t ag e . Cons ide ra t i on of the two cases by the League o f Nat ions Counci l ( p o s s i b l y a s s i s t e d by a Sub-Committee) and pronouncemento
The f a c t must be faced that at any time during
these processes the news might a r r i v e that war had begun.
The f o l l o w i n g matters would then at once be added t o those
a l r eady under c o n s i d e r a t i o n :
( a ) Whether A r t i c l e 16* of the Covenant had been v i o l a t e d , and i f so by whom.
( b ) What economic and m i l i t a r y a c t i o n could or should be taken.
( c ) In the event of economic sanct ions beingfound d e s i r a b l e , the quest ion whether a l l Member S ta t e s were prepared to c o - o p e r a t e .
( d ) The f u r t h e r quest ion o f what non-Member S ta t e s were prepared to c o - o p e r a t e .
( e ) The ques t i on whether the non c o - o p e r a t i o n of c e r t a i n S ta t e s was l i k e l y t e make economic sanct ions of no account.
A t t h i s s tage in the Meet ing the ques t i on was
r a i s e d ( i n p a r t i c u l a r by the Chance l lo r o f the Exchequer and
the Home S e c r e t a r y ) whether S i r Samuel Hoa re ' s sugges t ion
that economic sanct ions might be d i v i s i b l e i n t o two or more
s t a g e s , o f i n c r e a s i n g s t r ingency ,was consonant w i t h the
ac tua l terms o f A r t i c l e 16 ( s e e Append i x ) .
I t was prima f a c i e d i f f i c u l t t o agree tha t th i s
could be so ,hav ing regard t o such phrases as " s h a l l i pso
f a c t o be deemed t o have committed an act of war aga ins t
a l l o ther Members o f the League, whic^h hereby undertake
immediate ly to sub jec t i t t o the severance o f a l l t rade er
f i n a n c i a l r e l a t i o n s " .
+ For A r t i c l e 16 o f the Covenant see Appendix to the present Minutes.
THE MIElSTEE FOR LEAGUE OE NATIONS AFFAIRS said
that the answer to these doubts was to be found in the
Reso lu t i ons regard ing the i n t e r p r e t a t i o n o f A r t i c l e 16
which the League of Nat ions Assembly adopted in 1921.
Cer ta in o f these Reso lut ions were intended t o become
amendments t o A r t i c l e 16^ as such they had never come
i n t o f o r c e s ince the r e q u i s i t e number of S t a t e s had not
r a t i f i e d . . Others o f the 1921 Reso lu t i ons were s p e c i f i c a l l y
adopted by the Assembly as a ids to the a p p l i c a t i o n o f the
A r t i c l e . The p r e c i s e l e g a l p o s i t i o n o f t h e s e l a t t e r
Reso lu t i ons was somewhat uncer ta in but on the whole there
was no reason to doubt that they could be t r ea t ed as
ru l es f o r guidance recommended to the Counci l and to the
Members o f the League. I t was i n the l i g h t o f c e r t a i n
s p e c i f i c Resolut ions; , among those jus t r e f e r r e d t o 9 that
the Fore i gn O f f i c e exper ts had advised that the a p p l i c a t i o n
o f economic sanct ions by s tages was l e g i t i m a t e .
A f u r t h e r mate r i a l c ons ide ra t i on was that at the time
when the League Covenant had been framed the expec ta t i on
had been that membership o f the League would be u n i v e r s a l .
At present t h i s was f a r from being the case and they
were e n t i t l e d to i n t e r p r e t A r t i c l e 16 in the l i g h t o f
that f a c t .
THE HOME SECRETARY was i n c l i n ed to a g r e e , t o a c e r t a i n
e x t en t . He was not ye t sa t i s f i ed ; , however 9 that there
were not c e r t a i n s teps such as " the severance o f a l l t rade
or f i n a n c i a l r e l a t i o n s " which were o f automatic
a p p l i c a t i o n and in no way dependent on the " s t a g e s " of
economic sanct ions which the Counci l might recommend.
s The more important o f these Reso lu t i ons w i l l be found reproduced in Appendix V t o C P . 169 (35 ) .
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS , turning
to the conversa t i ons wi th the l e ade r s o f non-Government
p a r t i e s which had taken p l a c e , sa id that he had been
l e f t w i th the impression tha t there would be a v/ave o f
pub l i c op in ion aga ins t the Government i f i t : i
r epud ia ted i t s o b l i g a t i o n s under A r t i c l e 16 - that was
to s a y , i t s o b l i g a t i o n s under the p r i n c i p l e o f c o l l e c t i v e
r e s p o n s i b i l i t y , on the assumption that France would go
as f a r as we were prepared t o do. I t was
abundantly c l e a r that the on ly sa fe l i n e f o r His Majes ty '
Government was to t r y out the r egu la r League o f Nat ions
procedure .
Of c o u r s e , i f France found i t imposs ib le t o proceed
to extreme measures., there could be no ques t ion o f
" p u t t i n g her i n the dock" . On the o ther hand , i t would f o r us
be d e s i r a b l e / t o make a statement at some s tage in the
September proceec ! ings s to the e f f e c t that i f a l l o ther
Member S ta tes were ready to car ry out t h e i r o b l i g a t i o n s ,
we a l so were ready.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL sa id tha t he
recognised to the f u l l the advantages o f proceed ing by
stages i n the matter o f economic sanc t ions . I t must
be admitted;, however, that a p i ece -mea l procedure would
be cor respond ing ly s low in producing e f f e c t s and he would
not be surpr ised i f , i n the meantime, the I t a l i a n s
managed to p u l l o f f a g r ea t i n i t i a l success. I t might
be d i f f i c u l t to commend the p i ece -mea l procedure to
pub l i c op in ion i n the count r i es co -opera t ing i n the
sanc t i ons .
THE HOME SECRETARY ra i sed the quest ion whether i t was
d e s i r a b l e to make any pronounoement on behal f o f His
M a j e s t y ' s Government during the i n t e r v a l be fo re 4th September.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS thought i t
b e t t e r t o r e f r a i n from any pub l i c statement.
At t h i s stage S i r W i l l i a m Malkin and Mr. Strang entered the Meet ing7
-
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS informed
S i r W i l l i a m Malkin and Mr. Strang o f t h e d i f f i c u l t y
which M i n i s t e r s present had found i n r e c o n c i l i n g A r t i c l e 16
with the p iece -mea l method of app ly ing economic sanct ions
which appeared to be contemplated by the 19S1 Reso lut ions
SIR WILLIAM MALKIN thought that the ac tua l terms of
c e r t a i n o f the i n t e r p r e t a t i v e Reso lu t i ons were v e ry
he lp fu l i n t h i s connect ion.
R e s o l u t i o n N o . l . read as f o l l o w s :
"The r e s o l u t i o n s and the proposa ls f o r amendments to A r t i c l e 16 which have been adopted by the Assembly shal l ,so long as the amendments have not been put in fo rce i n the form required by the Covenants c ons t i t u t e ru l e s f o r guidance which the Assembly recommends as a p r o v i s i o n a l measure9
to the Counci l and to the Members o f the League in connect ion wi th the a p p l i c a t i o n o f A r t i c l e 16 . i f
R e s o l u t i o n No.4. conta ined the wordss
" I t i s the duty o f each Member o f the League to dec ide f o r i t s e l f whether a breach o f the Covenant has been
11 committed . . . . .
Reso lu t i on Nov..6. read as f o l l o w s :
" I f the Counci l i s of op in i on that a S t a t e has "been g u i l t y o f a breach o f t h e Covenant s the Minutes o f the meet ing a t which that op in ion i s a r r i v e d at s h a l l be immediately sent to a l l Members o f the League, accompanied by a statement of reasons and by an i n v i t a t i o n to take a c t i o n a c co rd ing l y . The f u l l e s t p u b l i c i t y s h a l l be g i v en to th i s d e c i s i o n . "
A r t i c l e 9 p rov ided f o r the p o s s i b i l i t y , f o r v a r i ous
s u f f i c i e n t r e a sons , o f c e r t a i n S ta t es remaining l o y a l
to the p r i n c i p l e o f economic pressure but not themselves
c o - ope ra t i ng in i t s e x e r c i s e .
A r t i c l e 14 was v e r y r e l e v a n t . I t read as f o l l o w s s
" I n cases o f pro longed a p p l i c a t i o n o f economic p r essure , measures o f i n c r eas ing s t r ingency may be taken. The cu t t ing o f f of the food supp l i es o f t h e c i v i l popu la t i on of the d e f a u l t i n g S t a t e sha l l be regarded as an ex t reme ly d r a s t i c measure, which sha l l on ly be app l i ed i f the o ther measures a v a i l a b l e are c l e a r l y inadequa te . "
THE SECRETARY OP STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS thought
i t niight now be accepted that the sweeping phrases o f
A r t i c l e 16 9 such as " t h e severance o f a l l t rade or
f i n a n c i a l r e l a t i o n s " were to be i n t e r p r e t a t e d in the
l i g h t o f the " g l o s s e s " o f 1921. For example, he thought
i t would be l e g i t i m a t e t o re fuse to r e c e i v e I t a l i a n
imports wh i l e cont inuing to export to I t a l y .
SIR WILLIAM MALKIN agreed that t h i s would be the
c a s e , i f the Counci l o f the League had recommended tha t
p a r t i c u l a r sanc t i on . I n such an event the Membe r S t a t e s
who f o l l owed the Counc i l ' s adv i ce would have sat i s f i e d
t h e i r o b l i g a t i o n s under A r t i c l e 16.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL r e c a l l e d the
f a c t that the s i t u a t i o n o f 19249 i n which an attempt had
been made to c l o s e a gap in the Covenant3 had been
the r e s u l t o f the d e l i b e r a t i o n s o f 1921.
THE HOME SECRETARY wondered whether i t was p o s s i b l e
to ge t round the f o l l o w i n g words in A r t i c l e 16s
" i t s h a l l ipso f ac to be deemed to have committed an ac t o f war aga inst a l l o ther Members o f the League " .
SIR WILLI.AM MALEIN said that t h i s po in t was met by
the t h i r d o f the Reso lu t i ons adopted as r u l e s f o r
guidance. I t read as f o l l o w s s
"The u n i l a t e r a l a c t i on o f t h e d e f a u l t i n g Sta te cannot c rea te a s t a t e o f war; i t merely e n t i t l e s the o the r Members of the League to r e so r t t o a c t s of war or to dec la re themselves i n a s t a t e o f War w i th the covenant-breaking State? but i t i s in accordance wi th the s p i r i t o f the Covenant that the League of Nat ions should, a t tempt 9 at l e a s t at the o u t s e t 3 to avo id war, and to r e s t o r e peace by economic p r e s s u r e . "
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER wondered whether
any other country was in the p o s i t i o n in which we found
o u r s e l v e s 9 that we had suppl ied I t a l y w i th coa l to the
va lue o f £5009000 and not y e t obtained payment and9 i f
a break occur red , would presumably never do so .
I t was suggested that a s im i l a r p o s i t i o n might
p o s s i b l y ob ta in with regard to o i l imports i n t o I t a l y
from Rumania.
THE HOME SECRETARY enquired whether the Fo r e i gn O f f i c e
had considered a s i t u a t i o n in which S ignor Musso l in i
might dec ide that a wa i t i ng game su i ted h i s in t e r es t s?and
in which he would acco rd ing l y not s t r i k e u n t i l a f t e r the
c l ose o f the September d e l i b e r a t i o n s at Geneva. - 1 1
THE SECRETARY OF' STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS sa id that
as he read the s i t u a t i o n , I t a l y would probably go to war
w i t h i n two or three weeks of September 4 th .
In r ep l y to a ques t i on , SIR WILLIAM MALKIN sa id that
the func t i on of the League Counci l in the matter of a
breach
Member
i t s e l f .
of
of
the
the
Covenant was only t o g i v e
League had then to dec ide
an Opinionf
the quest ion
each
f o r
TH
Sta tes
E HOME SECRETARY po in t ed out that
represented on the Counc i l would
in p r a c t i c e
a l r eady be
the
p u b l i c l y committed by t h e i r v o t e s on the op in ion r e f e r r e d
t o *
The Committee were informed that the Members of the
Counci l at the present time were Argen t ina , A u s t r a l i a ,
C h i l e , Czecho-S lovakia , Denmark, F rance , Great B r i t a i n ,
Mex ico , P o r t u g a l , Po land, Russ ia , Spain and Turkey.
SIR WILLIAM MALKIN c a l l e d a t t e n t i o n to one of the
proposed amendments t o A r t i c l e 16 adopted in 1921, which
inc luded the f o l l o w i n g wo rds .
" I n d e l i b e r a t i o n s on t h i s quest ion in the Counc i l , the v o t e s of Members of the League a l l e g e d t o have r e s o r t e d t o war and. of Members aga inst whom such a c t i on was d i r e c t e d s h a l l not be counted" .
The f a c t that t h i s amendment remained u n r a t i f i e d
might be taken as meaning that the adverse vo te o f the
o f f end ing S ta t e would prevent the Counci l from reco rd ing
an op in i on . The c on t r a r y , however, was a rguab l e .
THE SECRETARY OP STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS sa id that
i t was now c l e a r that each Member S ta te must take
i t s own d e c i s i o n . S ta t es were not i n the p o s i t i o n i n
which they must a l l s imultaneously sever trading
r e l a t i o n s e t c .
SIR WILLIAM MAI-KIN p o i n t e d out tha t in p r a c t i c e
sanct ions would be i n e f f e c t i v e unless they were concer ted
and. that the bes t p lace f o r conce r t ing them would appear
to be at a meeting of the League Counc i l .
THE LORD PRESIDENT OP THE COUNCIL was s t i l l not
c l e a r that the op in ion of the League Counci l was not t o a
c e r t a i n ex tent an ope ra t i v e op in ion . He thought i t would
be d i f f i c u l t t o ge t over the words -hereby undertake
immediately to subject ' " in A r t i c l e 16.
THE HOME SECRETARY po in ted out that t h i s was c l ea r ed
up by the Eighth of the Reso lu t i ons adopted f o r guidance.
This read "The Counci l s h a l l recommend the date on which
the enforcement of economic p r e s su r e , under A r t i c l e 16,
i s t o be begun, and s h a l l g i v e n o t i c e of that date t o a l l
the Members of the League" .
In rep ly to a ques t i on , TEE SECRETARY OP STATE FOR
FOREIGN AFFAIRS agreed that our a t t i t u d e on the piecemeal
a p p l i c a t i o n of economic sanctionsmust be fundamentally
a f f e c t e d by the v iew taken by the non-Member S t a t e s .
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER thought that we might
f i n d ourse l v e s in cons ide rab l e d i f f i c u l t i e s even i f the
Uni ted S ta tes and Japan, f o r example, were induced to
p r o h i b i t t rade w i th I t a l y . The p o s s i b i l i t y would s t i l l
remain that the a c t i v i t i e s of German sh ipp ing might
render the sanct ion meaning less j in such a s i t u a t i o n we
should have to be very c a r e f u l i f we were not t o land
ourse l v es in war w i th both Germany and I t a l y .
THE MINISTER FOR LEAGUE OF NATIONS AFFAIRS hoped that
in p r a c t i c e economic sanct ions would not be begun u n t i l
a Committee of the League Counci l had c a r e f u l l y worked
out the methods of t h e i r a p p l i c a t i o n - that i s , u n t i l i t
had a s c e r t a ined d e f i n i t e l y what a t t i t u d e the non-Member
S ta t es were go ing to adopt .
THE SECRETARY 0rn STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS sa id that
such an i n v e s t i g a t i o n by exper ts might very probably l e a d
to a d e c i s i o n not to impose economic sanc t i ons .
THE PRIME MINISTER enquired whether the Pres ident
could h ind the United S t a t e s in the mat ter of economic
sanc t i ons .
THE CHAHCE1-L0E OP THE EXCHEQUER was unce r t a in of the
answer. I f i t were found, however, that the P res ident
could not do so the s i t u a t i o n would he much s i m p l i f i e d .
As he ( t h e Chance l lo r of the Exchequer) saw the
s i t u a t i o n i t could he summed up in the f o l l o w i n g s ta tement *
( 1 ) Even the mi ldes t economic sanc t i on might in the
end l ead to war .
( 2 ) I f t h i s were t rue , s teps ought t o he taken to
put our armed f o r c e s i n t o a s t a t e of r ead iness .
THE SECRETARY OP STATE POR FOREIGN AFFAIRS ag r e ed .
S ignor Musso l in i i n h i s present frame of mind, was not a
normal man, and i t was conce i vab l e that some apparently
innocuous a c t i on on our p a r t , e g . in connect ion w i th the
Mediterranean or w i th Lake Tsana, might be t a k e n as a
casus b e l l i .
THE MINISTER FOR LEAGUE OF NATIONS AFFAIRS thought i t
even p o s s i b l e that S ignor Musso l in i might so regard a
B r i t i s h d e c i s i o n to r a i s e the embargo on the export of arms
to A b y s s i n i a .
THE HOME SECRETARY c a l l e d a t t e n t i o n t o the f a c t that
A u s t r a l i a was a Member of the League Counci l at the present
t ime .
THE SECRETARY 0r;i STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS sa id that
at h i s meeting w i th the Dominion High Commissioners that
day Mr. Bruce had sa id that in h i s op in ion the League Counci l
must make a bona f i d e i n v e s t i g a t i o n i n t o the quest ion of
economic sanc t i ons j but that the r e s u l t of the i n v e s t i g a t i o n
would be that economic sanct ions would be found use l e s s f o r
the present purpose .
SIR WILLIAM MALKIN sa id that what had been contemplated
in 1921 was that the League Council would have the ass i s tance
o f a Techn i ca l Committee in i t s i n v e s t i g a t i o n .
Ti l l LORD PRESIDENT 0"' THE COUNCIL was c l e a r that i t was
out of the quest ion f o r the B r i t i s h Government to make any
statement to the e f f e c t that A r t i c l e 16 could not operate
i n the present c r i s i s , b e f o r e the Council Meet ing on
September 4 th .
TEE SECRETARY OP STATE EON FOREIGN AEEAIRS thought that
we should have to a r r ee a form of words very c a r e f u l l y wi th
France b e f o r e we sa id that the machinery of economic
sanct ions would not work; The Trench might agree that i t
would not work in the present c r i s i s , but the;/ would
n e v e r t h e l e s s want to keep i t i n t a c t f o r use aga ins t Germany.
I t was impera t i ve to d i s co v e r M. L a v a l ' s i n t e n t i o n s
w i th in the next 14 days.
THE PRIME MINISTER c a l l e d a t t e n t i o n to M. L a v a l J s
genuine d i f f i c u l t i e s .
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER sa id that i f the f i n a l
d e c i s i o n was aga ins t economic sanct ions we should have to
be most c a r e f u l not t o say "we were prepared t o use them
but France was n o t " . The formula would have to be
something to the e f f e c t that we and France had come j o i n t l y
t o the conc lus ion that they would not work.
THE HOME SECRETARY c a l l e d a t t e n t i o n t o c e r t a i n
p r o v i s i o n s of the K e l l o g g Pac t , The steps to be taken
under that Pact , i f one s i gna tory were to break i t by
using war as a instrument of po l i c y , were not d i s s i m i l a r
from the f i r s t s tage of economic sanct ions as proposed by
S i r Samuel Hoare,
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS agreed .
THE LORD ri^LLpENT OF THE COUNCIL sa id
t h a t , i f I t a l y proceeded t o e x t r e m e s , i t would
he a g r ea t shock t o B r i t i s h pub l i c op in ion i f
no outward ac t i on were taken by H.F. Government.
He had been encouraged by the present d i scuss ion
to hope that i t would be p o s s i b l e to d i s co v e r
a comple te l y -pac i f ic method of app ly ing economic
sanct ions aga ins t I t a l i a n t r a d e .
He r e a l i s e d that i t remained to be
cons idered whether l e g i s l a t i o n (and thus the
e a r l y summoning of pa r l i ament ) would he
necessary in that case .
THE CHANCELLOR OP THE EXCHEQUER enquired
what v iew the Fo r e i gn Secre tary took of S i r
Austen Chamberla in 's sugges t ion that there should
be a meeting of the s i g n a t o r i e s of the K e l l o g g
P a c t .
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOB FOREIGN AFFAIRS
thought that t h i s might be a very use fu l card to
p lay at a l a t e r d a t e . I t would be a mistake to
play i t at present and thus to s i d e t r a ck the
League of Na t i ons . To do so now might d i s tu rb
France and o f f end I t a l y unneces sa r i l y .
mhargo jIPC " firms,
ixport THE SECRETARY OE STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS thought
that the B r i t i s h embargo would be d e f i n i t e l y un fa i r to
Abyss in i a i f i t were cont inued l o n g e r . I t would be
necessary , o f course , t o l i f t the embargo as r ega rds
I t a l y a l s o . He had been g l ad t o f i n d that Mr. Lansbury
shared t h i s v i ew .
THE HOME SECRETARY agreed .
i fp iee t . THE HOME SECRETARY c a l l e d a t t e n t i o n t o the f a c t
tha t , once I t a l y had s t a r t e d war aga ins t Abyss in ia , she
would be e n t i t l e d under i n t e r n a t i o n a l law to " v i s i t and
search" B r i t i s h ships f o r contraband a dep l o rab l e
s i t u a t i o n . This would be qu i te apart from any quest ion
of b l o ckade .
SIR WILLIAM MALKIN ag r eed . No ques t ion o f
b lockade could a r i s e as regards Abyss in ia ,wh i ch was a
l and- l ocked S t a t e .
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS sa id
that the present p o s i t i o n as regards the B r i t i s h
Mediterranean F l e e t was that the Admira l t y considered i t
v e ry undes i rab le that i t should remain at Ma l ta . To
move i t t o G i b r a l t a r would be i n the nature o f a r e t r e a t ,
and the present plan was acco rd ing l y that i t should move
to Egypt ian wate rs on August 29th. I t might then be
based on A lexandr ia and H a i f a .
The Admi ra l t y were cons ide r ing the d e s i r a b i l i t y
o f making t h i s move e a r l i e r than August 29th,
There remained a l so f o r d e c i s i o n the quest ion
of the Home F l e e t .
These were n a t u r a l l y matters f o r d e c i s i o n by
the Cab ine t . His c o l l e a gues might be i n t e r e s t e d to
know that S i r Herber t Samuel had suggested that the
Medi terranean F l e e t should be s t rengthened.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OP THE COUNCIL thought i t
important that I t a l y should he g i ven no excuse f o r saying
tha t the B r i t i s h F l e e t had gone to the Suez Canal .
talti- THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS sa id (Aircraft and s e a r c h l i g h t s iGuns f o r that ahout 8 a n t i - a i r c r a f t g u n s / s t i l l remained to he sent t o IMalta,
Ma l ta , of those which i t had t e e n a l ready dec ided to
despatch. The reason was tha t the 900 men r equ i r ed t o work
the guns were R e s e r v i s t s and tha t t h e i r c a l l i n g up might
occas ion alarm. This was a matter which would have
to he dec ided hy the Cab ine t .
2, Whi teha l l Gardens, S .W.1 .
22nd August , 1935.
APPENDIX.
ARTICLE 16 OF THE COVENANT OE THE LEAGUE.
HE terms of A r t i c l e 16 are as f o l l o w s ;
" 1 . Should any Member of the League r e s o r t to war in d i s r ega rd o f i t s covenants under A r t i c l e s 12,13 or 15, i t s h a l l ipso f a c t o he deemed to have committed an act of war aga inst a l l o t h e r Members o f t h e League, which hereby u n d e r t a k e immediate ly t o subject i t to the severance of a l l t r a d e o r f i n a n c i a l r e l a t i ' . h s , the p r o h i b i t i o n of a l l i n t e r course b e t w e e n t h e i r na t i ona l s and the na t i ona l s of the covenants-breaking S t a t e , and the p r e v en t i on of a l l f i n a n c i a l , commercial or persona l i n t e r course be tween o the na t i ona l s of the covenant-breaking S ta te and the na t i ona l s o f any other S t a t e , whether a Member o f the League or not .
2. I t sha l l be the duty of the Counci l i n suchcs.se to recommend to the s e v e r a l Governments concerned what e f f e c t i v e m i l i t a r y , naval or a i r f o r c e the Members of the League s h a l l s e v e r a l l y con t r ibu te to the armed f o r c e s to be used to p r o t e c t the covenants of the League.
3. The Members of the League a g r e e , f u r t h e r , that they w i l l mutual ly support one another in the f i n a n c i a l and economic measures which are taken under t h i s A r t i c l e , i n order to minimise the l o ss and inconvenience r e s u l t i n g from the above measures, and that they w i l l mutually support one another in r e s i s t i n g any s p e c i a l measures aimed at one o f t h e i r number by the covenant-breaking S t a t e , and that they w i l l take the necessary steps to a f f o r d pass age through t h e i r t e r r i t o r y to the f o r c e s of any of the Members of the League which are co -ope ra t ing to p r o t e c t the covenants of the League.
4. Any Member of the League which has v i o l a t e d any covenant of the League may be dec la red to be no l onger a Member of the League by a vo te of the Counci l concurred i n by the Represen ta t i v e s of a l l the other Members of the League r ep resen ted thereon. "
