Gifted Science Brainstorming by Dataweaver

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:11:21PM(UTC)

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White Wolf New World of Darkness Mage: The Awakening Gifted and Psychics sheets brainstorming

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WyrdHamster

I wrote today to Mr. Gone and he agreeto help in remaking the Mage sheets in to those for Gifted andPsychics in his time, only we must state what changes we want. Sohere is topic for brainstorming. Let's start with Gifted, becausemost of changes is stated in MCG.

Gifted sheet:

1.Arcana -> Colleges:

* Death -> Morbid Studies

* Fate ->Process Predictability.

* Forces -> Energy Evolution

* Life-> Biological Manipulation

* Matter -> Elemental Chemistry

*Mind -> Advanced Psychology

* Prime -> Elemental Particles

*Space -> Spatial Awareness

* Spirit -> Parallel Reality

*Time -> Temporal Dynamics

Maybe good idea would leaving thenames or corresponding Arcanum in the brackets? Like Energy Evolution(Forces ) 0000 ?

2. Gnosis -> Insight

3. Mana ->Vision

4. Path / Order / Legacy - Gifted are Pathless andwithout large support, but we could leave those in place or makenames for new kind of names like C ircles / Academies / XXX -something like that.

5. Rotes -> Proven Theories

6.Dedicated Magical Tools -> Scientific Apparatus(es?)

Eachcorrespondence to one of C ollages, so maybe getting read of the

Arcana Based Tools: section for two extra lines of text?

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:08:12PM(UTC)

#2

WWW


#3

Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:12:14PM(UTC) #4

WWW

Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:05:42PM(UTC)

#5

7.Nimbus

Nimbus don't have ideas for redefinition, but maybe newname should be made?

Psychics sheet:

1. Arcana - Principles

Need new names for

categories? Or just leave Life, Mind etc?

2.

Gnosis Psyche

3.

Mana - Psychic Energy.

4.

Wisdom Self-Control

Any other ideas on sheets?

Mr Gone

So, from what I gather, they are just Mages with different names? Or let me re-phrase that, the sheets are exactly the same,with just different titles?

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WyrdHamster

Yeah, mostly. Changes a re only in names and slight overthrowing of some things. Nothing major.

Mr Gone

Thats good.

Well, once things get hammered out, compile it all and email it my way and I'll add it to the list.

I 'l l keep an eye here too. [ ]


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WyrdHamster

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#6


#7

Friday, September 03, 2010 8:13:08PM(UTC)

#8

WWW

Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:22:26AM(UTC)

#9

WWW

Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:11:03PM(UTC)

#10

No one is interested in sheets for alternate willworkers from Mage Chronicle's Guide?

Dataweaver

On the contrary; I posted my request for such sheets in the original MCG topic, including a summary of what changes wouldneed to be made. I've been waiting for some action on it ever since.

Note that Psychics either have Wisdom (as with any Mage or Gifted Scientist) or Sanity (if you're using the optional "psychicpowers destabilize your mind" rule), and in general don't nail down an alternate terminology with the same precision that theGifted Scientists do.

Here is Wisdom: C larity before Harmony.

The necessary conditions for a productive discussion:Candor: Say what you mean, and mean what you say.Intelligence: Think before you speak.Good Will: Assume the best interpretation of what you read.

WyrdHamster

"Dataweave r" wrote:

I posted my request for such sheets in the original MCG topic, including a summary of what changes would need to bemade. I've been waiting for some action on it ever since.

So maybe repost this ideas here, MCG topic is, well... a bit of mess now. And we could made two of us some brainstorming. ;]

Mr Gone


On the contrary; I posted my request for such sheets in the original MCG topic, including a summary of what changeswould need to be made. I've been waiting for some a ction on it ever since.

Yea, any chance you could repost it.

I'd go diggin for it...but I'm lazy sometimes. [:P]


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Mr Gone

I finally got the book, so I'll see about trying to start this soon...I hope.

If I have questions, I'll be sure to ask em. [:P]


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Kracken

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#11

WWW


#12

| Edit byuser


#13

I dont have this book and can't see the differance from a mage? are they calling spirits to cast through them? in which caseyou can do away with the Arcana section and increase the familiar to encoporate more sprits.

Mr Gone

I haven't read it, so I'm not sure. It may be pretty much the same as a Mage, just different names for things and slightly

different mechanics. Not sure...


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Dataweaver

Reposting relevant comments from the Chronicler's Guide general discussion and spoilers thread:

Quote:

The [Gifted Science] section goes point by point through the various concepts and terms in Mage, and re-frames themin terms of exotic science. Readers familiar with the oWoD's Guide to the Technocracy should be familiar with theapproach. For the most part, Science worksaccording to the same rules of Magic, save for a few minor adjustments here and there.

Quote:

The Psychic Sphere makes reference to the Wintergreen Process from Slashers as an example of one of threepossible origins for psychics. It also highlights that psychics and mages do not share the same culture, and then goesinto detail about what the psychic culture is like, using the tiered concept (cabals, cults, and conspiracies) to organizethings.

It then provides a series of system hacks: Do Nothing (which does more than nothing, sometimes), Limit Powers, NoParadox, Replace Pa radox, Psychic Tools, Psychic Vampires, and Sanity Score. I haven't looked atthese options in detail, so I don't know how well they mix. There's also a sidebar on Converting Psychic Disciplines Into

Arcana/Spells, and a sidebar on Recommended Redefinitions (of terms, mostly).

Quote:

Mr Gone: could we get a couple of new character sheets for the MCG? Both the Gifted Science and the PsychicSpheres sections in chapter two propose radically different terminology for stuff, some of which shows up on thecharacter sheet.

For instance, Gifted Scientists have Insightrather than Gnosis; they are fueled by Vision rather than Mana; they studyColleges instead of Arcana (Morbid Studies instead of Death; Process P redictabilityinstead of Fate; Energy Evolutioninstead of Forces; Biological Manipulation instead of Life; Elemental Chemistryinstead of Matter; Essential and

Advanced Psychologyinstead of Mind; Elemental Particles instead of Prime; Spatial Awareness instead of Space;Parallel Realityinstead of Spirit; and Temporal Dynamics instead of Time); and they lack Paths. OTOH, they still haveWisdom.

Psychics don't have quite a clear set of substitutions; rather, there's a sidebar of suggested alternative terms:

Quote:

Arcana: These are the magical elements key to Awakened magic. C hange the term to something morebaseline: Principles should work as a term, but if youre okay with a little cross-game confusion, Spheres orDisciplines are apropos to psychic powers (as in psychic spheres or psychic disciplines).

Gnosis: Now called Psyche. Less about understanding Supernal reality and more about grasping ones owninternal psychic potential. Note that this is the same power stat found in Geist: The Sin-Eaters, though it

shares only the name, not the function.

Mana: Mana, which has roots in South Pacific myth, is a little too religious and mystical. Some psychics rely onwhat they term Qi or chi, which is the internalized energy bandied about in Chinese esotericism, but again,thats a hair too mystical. Instead, go for the straightforward Psychic Energy.

Resonance:Aura . Same idea, different term.

Wisdom: The core idea remains the same the psychic has access to powers that he can abuse, and that candamage his internal ethical yardstick and saddle him with derangements. But wisdom sounds a little too lofty.Here, we go with a simpler, more direct term: Self-Control.

In addition, there's an optional Morality substitute that would, of course, take the place of Self-Control: Sanity. Nothaving Mirrors yet, I don't know how similar these rules are to the Sanity stat found there.



Isator Levi

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#14

| Edit byuser


#15

"Kracken" wrote:

I dont have this book and can't see the differance from a mage? are they calling spirits to cast through them? in whichcase you can do away with the Arcana section and increase the familiar to encoporate more sprits.

MCG is really just setting out alternate perspectives on how magic works.

The default system presents magic as the application of the True principles of reality to override the laws present in the Fallen

reality, via symbolism that can express the Truth to Fallen minds.

Gifted Science imagines magic as a deep understanding of the physical properties of the universe, to the point where anindividual can, with the correct tools and applications, achieve seemingly miraculous effects. Virtually identical to the defaultsystem in mechanics, although rotes and dedicated tools are emphasised.

Psychic Sphere e nvisions magic as a capability derived from superhuman mental capabilities. The idea being that the humanmind can tap into something that allows reality to be manipulated. Presentation differs from the default in that mneumonicsare suggested as how powers are harnessed, rather than symbolism. There are several options for certain, minor alterationsto the mechanics.

Needs Help, the Destitute Lament, Communicative Soul of Anbhann, the Forlorn Burren, 12th Soul of Isator Levi,

Clfaidh, the Drill That Pierces the Heavens, 8th Soul of Isator Levi

Abcn, the Poet of Contempt, Expressive Soul of Fiacha, the Grinning Patrician, 5th Soul of Isator Levi

Aerten, the Red Right Hand, 3rd Soul of Isator Levi

Dagda, the Crucible That Scours All Ignorance, 9th Soul of Isator Levi

Dataweaver

Right. IMHO, the MCG material is a good start, but doesn't quite go far enough.

For Gifted Science, I've ended up implementing a house rule to the effect that Gifted Scientists don't get to engage in Astraljourneys as an inherent abil ity; it r equires an Exper iment from the College of Essentia l and Advanced Psychology (i.e ., a MindSpell). OTOH, crafting an Imbued Item (for which they certainly have a more scientific-sounding name) is an inherent abilitythat's available to all Gifted Scientists, not just those with moderate expertise in the College of Essential Particles (i.e., Prime).I'm also inclined to remove the inherent ability to heal damage by expending Vision (i.e., Mana), though I can still see somejustifi cation for le tting them incur damage in order to garner Vision.

As well, MCG says nothing about the social organization of Gifted Scientists, one way or the other. I suppose that one couldsay that they belong to organizations that are equivalent to the Orders in all but name; but that rubs me the wrong way. I'dmuch rather invent a new set of Orders that better reflect prominent Gifted Scientist mindsets. Trouble is, I'm not quite surehow to go about it. I've considered the Foundations from Genius; but while I like "Foundation" as alternative terminology for"Order", the individual Foundations that Genius describes strike me as being better fodder for the Gifted Science counterpartto Legacies: they aren't sweeping philosophies of science the way that the Orders are sweeping philosophies of magic.

For Psychics, most of the bases were covered. The only flaw that I see is that the Psychic Principles differ from the MagicalArcana in name only, which makes it difficult to replicate traditional psychic archetypes. For instance, Space covers bothbilocation and clairvoyance, two psychic powers which aren't joined at the hip the way that, say, mind reading and mindcontrol tend to be. I'd like to see a set of Psychic Principles that still work according to the same rules that Magical Arcana do,but that partition the "spells" differently. For instance, you might have Biokinesis, Clairsentience, Electrokinesis,Psychokinesis, Quantakinesis, Teleportation, Telepathy, and Vitakinesis (the Aptitudes from Trinity).


The necessary conditions for a productive discussion:Candor: Say what you mean, and mean what you say.Intelligence: Think before you speak.

Good Will: Assume the best interpretation of what you read.

Isator Levi


As well, MCG says nothing about the social organization of Gifted Scientists, one way or the other. I suppose that onecouldsay that they belong to organizations that are equivalent to the Orders in all but name; but that rubs me thewrong way. I'd much rather invent a new set of Orders that better reflect prominent Gifted Scientist mindsets.Trouble is, I'm not quite sure how to go about it. I've conside red the Foundations from Genius; but while I like"Foundation" as alternative terminology for "Order", the individual Foundations that Genius describes strike me asbeing better fodder for the Gifted Science counterpart to Legacies: they aren't sweeping philosophies of science theway that the Orders are sweeping philosophies of magic.

Perhaps organizations based a round differing philosophies for how to utilise their Advanced S cience.

Like, say, one Foundation devoted to using its innovations to help mankind, one who feels that they should use their advances

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6/27


#16

Friday, November 05, 2010 10:38:43

AM(UTC)

#17

for their own profit, one who is devoted to actively improving humanity, who who is interested purely in research andproviding funds and infrastructure to aid research, and one who is dedicated to regulating the others and ensuring that theyadhere to certain ethical and professional standards.

And of course, enemy factions of elitist technocrats and standard mad scientists.






Dataweaver

That's a good start, and very much in line with what I was hoping for. They could use some fleshing out; for instance, the "doresearch and fund research" Foundation sounds like it could also be described as "those who se ek answers" - which is not tosay that nobody else asks questions and demands answers. But for the others, investigating things is a means to an end; forthis Foundation, satisfying their curiosity is and end unto itself.

Of course, the o ther half is that every Order provides three Rote Specialties; unless Gifted Scientists in general have a meansof acquiring Rote Specialties without the help of the Foundations, at least part of each one's flavor will be tied to which RoteSpecialties it provides.

As well, maybe we shouldn'thave a pa ir of "enemy factions"; instead, develop each faction with a light side and a dark side.The technocrats and the ethics police could be flip sides of the same Foundation, where the ethics police are those memberswho have the Wisdom to restrain themselves and leave the Scientific community to itself for the most part, while thetechnocrats are the ones who show no restraint nor humility, and seek power over others for their own good. Same concept,and same Foundation; but one side is the concept done right (more or less), while the other is the concept gone horriblywrong.



Isator Levi


As well, maybe we shouldn'thave a pair of "enemy factions"; instead, develop each faction with a light side and a darkside. The technocrats and the ethics police could be flip sides of the same Foundation, where the ethics police arethose members who have the Wisdom to restrain themselves and leave the Scientific community to itself for the mostpart, while the technocrats are the ones who show no restraint nor humility, and seek power over others for their owngood. Same concept, and same Foundation; but one side is the concept done right (more or less), while the other isthe concept gone horribly wrong.

Really, you're right about the idea of distinct enemy factions.

However, I feel that technocrats should have their place.

Rather than being an enemy faction, or a sub-group of another faction, they should just be a distinct faction who happens tobelieve that technical expertise is the best qualification for running a society. It could be that there are the nicer ones whoeither feel that they should provide facts and statistics to incumbant officials or else believe that technical expertise andpragmatism are important but not the sole factors to govern decisions, and the less pleasant ones who believe that GiftedScientists should be the new oligarchy, or who believe that decisions should be purely pragmatic and technical (the group whoprojects that the economy could be lifted up if 100,000 people were murdered, or that the best way to reduce carbonemissions is by wiping out private transport).

And mad scientist should be there. Perhaps in the form of people who use extremely non-standard theories, paradigms orequipment. They could be dotted throughout the other groups, but have their own seperate (and smaller) faction who aredevoted to increasing the prevalence in accepting more radical methods.

Other groups could have the harsher elements in the form of:

* Forcing the use of new advances whether the people want them or not, disregarding the ultimate waste caused by fastadvances which swiftly render old technologies obsolete and discarded, and use harsh methods to drive those who refuse toadvance into the ground.

*Selling any old thing for maximum profits, regardless of how damaging or shoddy it might prove to be in the long run.

*Improvement of humanity being researched in highly unethical and involuntary experimentation.

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7/27

Sunday, November 07, 2010 1:28:20AM(UTC)

#18


#19


#20

*Plain old academic elitism and being extremely ruthless in the appropraition of grants, scholarships and peer reviews.

*Holding others to extremely draconian standards via severe methods, and being particularly harsh in the area of things likepatent protection.






Dataweaver

I was figuring that the "ethics police" concept works well as the "bright side" of the technocrat mindset, and vice versa: a"good technocrat" would be one who applies restraint to his tendency to meddle in others' affairs; and to me, a significantmeasure of s aid restraint would be a tendency to focus on the behavior of those who can do the most harm if they misbehave- which, from a technocrat's perspective, would be other Gifted Scientists in general, and other technocrats in particular. Or,taking it the other way around: an "ethics policeman" is concerned with watching out for ethical violations by other Scientists.The dark side of this would replace "policing" with "micromanaging", and would generalize the scope of their monitoring andenforcement from Gifted Scientists to everyone. Now you've got people who want to control your life "for your own good,because we know what's good for you."

And I was also figuring that the traditional mad scientist is the guy who is driven to invent no matter what the cost, makinghim the dark side of the "research for its own sake" Foundation.



Isator Levi


Now you've got people who want to control your life "for your own good, because we know what's good for you."

That is pretty much the definition of technocracy.






Dataweaver

OTOH, an equally viable route to very nearly the same end is to start with the philanthropists - who, after all, only want tohelp you - and then give them the scientific certainty that they knowwhat's best for you, and will provide it whether you wantit or not. The difference between the two is one of emphasis: for the ethics police, it's "we seek to control you, for your owngood"; for the philanthropists, it's "we seek to control you, for your own good".

Likewise, the "pure research" and transhumanist Foundations would both result in mad scientists: the former being "I will stopat nothing to satisfy my curiosity", the latter having a warped view of what constitutes an improvement to humanity.

And then there are the "science for profit" guys, for whom the dark side is self-evident; it's all too easy for us to imaginepeople compromising their morals for the sake of the bottom line. So easy that I'd wager that the real trick would lie inshowing how these guys can be viable protagonists. The key there would be to play up the notion of enlightened self-interest:to borrow a line from Shere Khan in Tale Spin, "I care only for money and power; underpaid and abused employees provideme with neither." Or something to that effect. Likewise, chea ting a customer can be profitable in the short run; but in the longrun, you want satisfied customers who will provide you with repeat business.



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8/27

Monday, November 08, 2010 1:50:07PM(UTC)

#21

Monday, November 08, 2010 11:35:25PM(UTC)

#22

Tuesday, November 09, 2010 1:07:17AM(UTC)

#23

Tuesday, November 09, 2010 2:57:14AM(UTC)

#24

WyrdHamster

Maybe it will delude a bit topic, but I will sum up the Fundations ideas that are more or less based on the Orders:

*Misterium - "seeking knowlegde Fundation" - meddling in bad things just because of curiosity*Free C ouncil - "Future is today! - transhumanism Fundation" - wanting to eleva te th human kind- NOW!*Guardians of the Veil - "Proper development of humanity Fundation" - technocrats*Silver Ladder - "Reaserch for power Fundation" - you are genius, you own what you got*Addamantine Arrow -"Philantrospist Fundation"?

The problem I've come up with is also the story line. Would Fundation be as long as Renaissance? Or are they XIXcentury offshoot? And what would be they reaction to forming of Free Council in 1900? Because many Libertines are exactlylike the Gifted themselves...

Dataweaver

We've definitely drifted off-topic, for which I'll accept full responsibility. That said:

These proposed Foundations do not match up with individual Orders; that's part of the point of them. There are somesimilarities in a few cases; but then, there are also some similarities between a few of the vampiric C ovenants and a few o fthe Orders . And they're about as meaningful.

One of the ideas that I'm suggesting here is that for the most part, Gifted Scientists aren't part of Mage culture, and viceversa . Arguably, they're more closely re lated than, say, vampires and mages are; but they should still be thought of asdistinct communities with separate concerns ra ther than being evaluated in terms of how they fit into mage history. My

personal preference would be to trace the origins of the Foundations at leastas far back as the Enlightenment; but seeing ashow they're essentially philosophies and goals o f science at least as much a s they are organizations, I could ea sily see themextending all the way back into ancient times, with no clear origins.



WyrdHamster


My personal preference would be to trace the origins of the Foundations at leastas far back as the Enlightenment; butseeing as how they're essentially philosophies and goals of science at least as much as they are organizations, I couldeasily see them extending all the way back into ancient times, with no clear origins.

If we would want to make them distinct than Mages, and left the illusion of the scientific progress for the characters, I thinkwe should make Fundation in the Renaissance, with shadowing that before there were other, smaller groups. Before the 15thCentury science was so much divided that I can't imagine unfieded groups. Also, Inquisition is good excuse WHYthose groups are now the way they are, with all the scienisists being partially philospers and beginning of globalisation. (See Assa ssin Creed 2 for this . ;] )

Just couple weeks ago I stareted the Promethean game as player and I must say one thing - antagonists are needed. You canplay game and enjoy it ( I love it! ) but the dynamics is to slow paced, even with Centimani, that as Storyteller - I don't havegood ideas to throw a chronicle, especialy in team play. I could see the whole "all can be enemy", but basicly it's the same inMage. Maybe if they REALLY all of them could be enemies...

And, even if Gifted are not Mages, as I see, they are at least partially affected to them, especially Free Council and GreatRefusal. I see that if only one Gifted is found in city, he would more probably joined FC than started the Fundation ( byparraels I showed, other Orders are also v isable ). I know that Gifted should be self suffitiant as "game", but I also advice onthe whole "Supernal in both kinds" thing, that ties them nicely, and this should also be taken in to considera tion.

I make this points also becuase I think about steampunk Magevers game, were character can be Awak ened, Gifted orPsychics - the making of Free Council itself.

Dataweaver

"WyrdHamster" wrote:

If we would want to make them distinct than Mages, and left the illusion of the scientific progress for the characters, Ithink we should make Fundation in the Renaissance, with shadowing that before there were other, smaller groups.Before the 15th Century science was so much divided that I can't imagine unfieded groups. Also, Inquisition is goodexcuse WHY those groups are now the way they are, with all the scienisists being partially philospers and beginning ofglobalisation. ( See Assassin Creed 2 for this . ;] )

Like I said: Foundations are like Orders in that they aren't really big organizations; they're loose networks of like-mindedscientists. That said, I'm OK with the notion that the Foundations probably don't date much farther back than the

Renaissance.


Just couple weeks ago I stareted the Promethean game as player and I must say one thing - antagonists are needed.You can play game and enjoy it ( I love it! ) but the dynamics is to slow paced, even with Centimani, that asStoryteller - I don't have good ideas to throw a chronicle, especialy in team play. I could see the whole "all can beenem " but basicl it's the same in Ma e. Ma be if the REALLY all of them could be enemies...

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9/27

Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:03:10AM(UTC)

#25

WWW

Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:34:39AM(UTC)

#26

The latter is what I'm thinking of. Think of it as factions within the Foundation, or perhaps as a second set of "evil"Foundations that mirror the "good" ones.


And, even if Gifted are not Mages, as I see, they are at least partially affected to them, especially Free Council andGreat Refusal. I see that if only one Gifted is found in city, he would more probably joined FC than started theFundation ( by parraels I showed, other Orders are also visable ). I know that Gifted should be self suffitiant as"game", but I also advice on the whole "Supernal in both kinds" thing, that ties them nicely, and this should also betaken in to consideration.

As I see it, the Free Council wouldn't have anything to offer a Gifted Scientist beyond what it could offer to a Sleepwalker. If

a Gifted Scientist is not a Mage, he won't benefit from the libraries of Rotes that largely defines the non-mundane benefits thatan Order has to offe r. He'll need access to the databases of Proven Theorie s that a Foundation would offer, or else he's nobetter off than an apostate mage who tries to join a Foundation.

As for the Great Refusal, I'm pretty sure that Gifted Scientists probably weren't involved in it: not being mages, and havingtheir own Foundations, they wouldn't have been part of the preceding Nameless War, certainly not as part of the minoritybeing persecuted by the Atlantean Orders; and without that, there would have been no rationale for the Seers to use to try torecruit them. Besides, they would have been singularly dismissive of any such offers: to them, a Seer is a guy who thinksthat the world is a prison, that he's a prison guard, and that the wardens are beings who live outside of reality, in a "morereal" super-rea lity. For most Gifted Scientists, these notions are laughable.

To a typical Gifted Scientist, there isn't a "Supernal World", with laws that can be drawn down into the Fallen World. Instead,there is "Supernal Thought" - the talent for understanding subtleties in the laws of reality and spotting and exploiting loopholesin those laws. Gifted Scientists don't talk about Watchtowers , as they never experienced any during their Enlightenment; nordo they have any concept of such things as Arcadia, Pandemonium, et al. The Supernal Realms and their Watchtowers areunique to mages. And without a Supernal World, the Gifted would be hard-pressed to buy into the notion of the Exarchs,

which in turn would make it hard for them to take the Seers of the Throne seriously.


I make this points also becuase I think about steampunk Magevers game, were character can be Awakened, Gifted orPsychics - the making of Free Council itself.

IMHO, far too much is made of the techno leanings of the Free Council. What gets missed is that Libertines are still mystics;and having the Free C ouncil double as a Foundation for Gifted Scientists would tend to reinforce this misconception. Still, Icould see the possibility of a Foundation that is to mysticism and the "old ways" as the Free Council is to modern innovations -a Foundation dedicated to discovering the scientific roots of ancient superstitions.


The necessary conditions for a productive discussion:Candor: Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

Intelligence: Think before you speak.Good Will: Assume the best interpretation of what you read.

Mr Gone

So, did we ever come up with anything concrete for this?

I'd love it if someone could get me a mock-up, or let me what exactly is needed for something like this.

Maybe it's all here and I've missed it. Been awhile since I read over the thread..


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Dataweaver

Mr Gone wrote:

So, did we ever come up with anything concrete for this?

I'd love it if someone could get me a mock-up, or let me what exactly is needed for something like this.

Maybe it's all here and I've missed it. Been awhile since I read over the thread..

In terms of the character sheets? For the Gifted, it's really simple: aside from artistic changes such as replacing the Mage-ishborders/font with something more sciencey, it's largely a matter of renaming various fields:

* Replace "Arcana" with "Colleges".* Replace Death, Fate, Forces, Life, Matter, Mind, Prime, Space, Spirit, and Time with Biological Manipulation, ElementaryChemistry, Elemental Particles, Energy Evolution, Essential and Advanced Psychology, Morbid Studies, Parallel Reality, ProcessPredictability, Spatial Awareness, and Temporal Dynamics. (IMHO, some of these can be abbreviated without harm - e.g.,Psychology instead of Essential and Advanced Psychology, Biology instead of Biological Manipulation, etc. - but these are theterms provided in the book.)* Replace "Gnosis" with "Insight".

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10/27

Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:23:15PM(UTC)

#27

* Replace "Mana" with "Vision".* Remove "Path". Do not rename or replace; remove.* Replace all mention of "Spells" with "Experiments" (so "Protective Spells" become "Protective Experiments", "Active Spells"become "Active Experiments", "Spells C ast Upon Self" become "Experiments Performed Upon Self", etc.* Replace "Rotes" with "Proven Theories"* Remove the "Dedicated Magical Tool" section, and replace it with a "Tool" column next to the list of Colleges: a GiftedScientist gets one preferred Tool per C ollege. If possible, also make space for a check box next to this to allow the player totag various tools as having been C alibrated (the Gifted Science analog of Dedicating a Tool).* "Enchanted Items" needs to be renamed, although the book doesn't address this. Call them "Gadgets" or "Inventions"instead? Likewise, "Familiars" has to many mystical overtones for the Gifted Scientist, though I'm less sure with what to callthem: "Pets", I suppose; or is that just my MMO side talking? Regardless, Pets/Familiars could probably be dropped entirelywithout harm.

House rules may involve replacing "Order" with something else; but for a sheet that's designed to conform strictly to thematerial presented in Chronicler's Guide, you should leave "Order" as "Order".

---

For Psychics, the following are the primary recommendations:

* Replace "Order" with a Hunter-style tiered organization entry: tier 1 is the cabal, as per mages; tiers 2 and 3 are cults andconspiracies, respectively.* Replace "Arcana" with "Principles" (the book also suggests that "Spheres" or "Disciplines" might work if the Storyteller isn'tworried about cross-game confusion; but "Principles" is the dominant suggestion, if you want to avoid drop-down boxes ortext fields).* Replace "Gnosis" with "Psyche".* Replace "Mana" with "Psychic Energy".* Replace "Wisdom" with a choice of either "Self-Control" or "Sanity", depending on whether or not the Storyteller isimplementing the Sanity option described on p.72.

Other terms undoubtedly need renaming; but this is about as far as the book's suggestions go.


The necessary conditions for a productive discussion:

Candor: Say what you mean, and mean what you say.Intelligence: Think before you speak.Good Will: Assume the best interpretation of what you read.

Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

In terms of the character sheets? For the Gifted, it's really simple: aside from artistic changes such as replacing theMage-ish borders/font with something more sciencey

Thats gonna be my biggest hang up then...as I can't really make my own borders. I'm real good with using existinggraphics...not so good at making up my own.

So, if thing needs a new border...unless someone can make me one, then I'll have to put it on hold for awhile longer.

Dataweave r wrote:

it's largely a matter of renaming various fields:

* Replace "Arcana" with "Colleges".* Replace Death, Fate, Forces, Life, Matter, Mind, Prime, Space, Spirit, and Time with Biological Manipulation,Elementary Chemistry, Elemental Particles, Energy Evolution, Essential and Advanced Psychology, Morbid Studies,Parallel Reality, Process Predictability, Spatial Awareness, and Temporal Dynamics. (IMHO, some of these can beabbreviated without harm - e.g., Psychology instead of Essential and Advanced Psychology, Biology instead ofBiological Manipulation, etc. - but these are the terms provided in the book.)* Replace "Gnosis" with "Insight".* Replace "Mana" with "Vision".* Remove "Path". Do not rename or replace; remove.* Replace all mention of "Spells" with "Experiments" (so "Protective Spells" become "Protective Experiments", "ActiveSpells" become "Active Experiments", "Spells Cast Upon Self" become "Experiments Performed Upon Self", etc.* Replace "Rotes" with "Proven Theories"* Remove the "Dedicated Magical Tool" section, and replace it with a "Tool" column next to the list of Colleges: a Gifted

Scientist gets one preferred Tool per C ollege. If possible, also make space for a check box next to this to allow theplayer to tag various tools as having been C alibrated (the Gifted Science analog of Dedicating a Tool).* "Enchanted Items" needs to be renamed, although the book doesn't address this. Call them "Gadgets" or"Inventions" instead? Likewise, "Familiars" has to many mystical overtones for the Gifted Scientist, though I'm lesssure with what to call them: "Pets", I suppose; or is that just my MMO side talking? Regardless, Pets/Familiars couldprobably be dropped entirely without harm.

House rules may involve replacing "Order" with something else; but for a sheet that's designed to conform strictly tothe material presented in Chronicler's Guide, you should leave "Order" as "Order".

---

For Psychics, the following are the primary recommendations:

* Replace "Order" with a Hunter-style tiered organization entry: tier 1 is the cabal, as per mages; tiers 2 and 3 arecults and conspiracies, respectively.* Replace "Arcana" with "Principles" (the book also suggests that "Spheres" or "Disciplines" might work if theStoryteller isn't worried about cross-game confusion; but "Principles" is the dominant suggestion, if you want to avoiddrop-down boxes or text fields).* Replace "Gnosis" with "Psyche".

* Replace "Mana" with "Psychic Energy".* Replace "Wisdom" with a choice of either "Self-Control" or "Sanity", depending on whether or not the Storyteller isimplementing the Sanity option described on p.72.

Other terms undoubtedly need renaming; but this is about as far as the book's suggestions go.

Thanks for suming up those changes. Again, I'll be stuck on the border front...but we'll see what happens.

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11/27

WWW

Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:04:25PM(UTC)

#28

WWW


#29


#30

WWW

Sp Psychics are more human then? No magey stuff for the sheet?

Any chance you could email me those changes? Just so I have them saved some place so I don't forget...

My email is: [email protected]


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MrGone's Character Sheets

For all your WoD C haracter Sheet Needs_________________________________

Mr Gone

*bump*

Anything else I should know. If I can, I'll try to see what I can do with these before too long...


Terms of use_________________________________


Dataweaver

Mr Gone wrote:

Thanks for summing up those changes. Again, I'll be stuck on the border front...but we'll see what happens.

So Psychics are more human then? No magey stuff for the sheet?

For the Gifted Science border, you could do worse than to borrow the border graphics from the oWoD Guide to theTechnocracy.

The Psychics section is a lot more freewheeling than the Gifted Science section, and is much more of a grab-bag of ideas thanany sort of coherent system, as you can probably tell by my summary of their respective terminology changes. As such,coming up with a single, coherent character sheet for the psychics is going to involve a bit more guesswork. For instance:presumably, psychics don't talk about "casting spells" or rotes, even though they use a somewhat tweaked version ofMage'sspellcasting system; but the section doesn't really address this point, and doesn't provide alternative terminology.



Mr Gone

I got the sheets done, for now. Heres the announcement:

Hey all!! I have some new sheets up on the site! I was asked awhile ago to make sheets for Gifted and Psychics from theMage Chroniclers Guide. I don't have the book myself, so I relied on info some people were nice enough to post on the whitewolf forum. These have been a long time coming, and I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get to them.

I hope these will be good enough for you guys.

Heres the links:

http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/MtANWOD/Awakening2-Page_Gifted_Editable.pdf

http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/MtANWOD/Awakening1-Page_Psychics_Editable.pdf

Hope you like how they turned out.


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12/27


#31

WWW


#32

Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:25:44

PM(UTC)#33

Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

For the Gifted Science border, you could do worse than to borrow the border graphics from the oWoD Guide to theTechnocracy.

I hadn't thought about that. Might do it sometime...

Dataweave r wrote:

The Psychics section is a lot more freewheeling than the Gifted Science section, and is much more of a grab-bag ofideas than any sort of coherent system, as you can probably tell by my summary of their respective terminologychanges. As such, coming up with a single, coherent character sheet for the psychics is going to involve a bit moreguesswork. For instance: presumably, psychics don't talk about "casting spells" or rotes, even though they use asomewhat tweaked version ofMage's spellcasting system; but the section doesn't really address this point, anddoesn't provide alternative terminology.

Hopefully the sheet I did will be ok. I just did a one page sheet...


Terms of use_________________________________


_________________________________

Dataweaver

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:

For the Gifted Science border, you could do worse than to borrow the border graphics from the oWoD Guide tothe Technocracy.

I hadn't thought about that. Might do it sometime...

Yes, please. In the meantime, the Gifted sheet you provided looks quite good.

For the Psychic sheet, you might consider asking Evo_Shandor if you could borrow the border image that he devised for hisPsychic: the Gifted homebrew.

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:

The Psychics section is a lot more freewheeling than the Gifted Science section, and is much more of a grab-bag of ideas than any sort of coherent system, as you can probably tell by my summary of their respectiveterminology changes. As such, coming up with a single, coherent character sheet for the psychics is going toinvolve a bit more guesswork. For instance: presumably, psychics don't talk about "casting spells" or rotes,even though they use a somewhat tweaked version ofMage's spellcasting system; but the section doesn'treally address this point, and doesn't provide alternative terminology.

Hopefully the sheet I did will be ok. I just did a one page sheet...

No complaints here . I do wish that the Morality Substitute title box had a de fault value of "Se lf-Control" in it, so that the playerwould only need to edit that box if the Storyteller has decided to implement the Sanity option (and its font seems to be slightlybigger than the other headers); but other than that, it looks great!



Dataweaver

A few nitpicks on the Gifted character sheet: there are still a couple of Mage fossils there.

1. In the fine print at the bottom of the first page, you state that "(two of these must be the Paths Ruling College)"; TheGifted don't have Paths. Delete this.

2. Under Experiments Performed Upon Self, you have "Spell Tolerance = Stamina; -1 dice per extra spell." Change to"Experiment Tolerance = Stamina; -1 die per extra experiment."

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13/27

| Edit byuser


#34

WWW

Wednesday, September 14, 2011 12:07:11AM(UTC) #35

3. Under Inventions, the fourth column is "Mana". Change that to "Vision" for consistency. (I have the same problem with thisas I do with Innovations in Adventure being fueled by "Inspiration"; but it definitely should notbe "Mana", and "Vision" atleast is consistent with the rest of the sheet.)

4. "Arcane Experience". I can't believe that I missed this one; it breaks thematics. MCG doesn't address this (which is part ofwhy I overlooked it), so there's no "official" alternative to go with. Perhaps go with "Esoteric Experience" (for clarity) or"Inspiration" (for brevity)? I'm leaning toward the former.

I had been thinking that without Paths, there's no need to mention different experience costs for Ruling, Common, andInferior Colleges; but since MCG doesn't address the details of how G ifted character creation differs from Mage charactercreation, it's entirely possible that a given Storyteller might decide to implement some alternate method for establishingRuling and/or Inferior C olleges; so leave them as is.



Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

A few nitpicks on the Gifted character sheet: there are still a couple of Mage fossils there.

1. In the fine print at the bottom of the first page, you state that "(two of these must be the Paths Ruling College)";The Gifted don't have Paths. Delete this.

2. Under Experiments Performed Upon Self, you have "Spell Tolerance = Stamina; -1 dice per extra spell." Change to"Experiment Tolerance = Stamina; -1 die per extra experiment."

3. Under Inventions, the fourth column is "Mana". Change that to "Vision" for consistency. (I have the same problemwith this as I do with Innovations in Adventure being fueled by "Inspiration"; but it definitely should notbe "Mana",and "Vision" at least is consistent with the rest of the sheet.)

4. "Arcane Experience". I can't believe that I missed this one; it breaks thematics. MCG doesn't address this (which ispart of why I overlooked it), so there's no "official" alternative to go with. Perhaps go with "Esoteric Experience" (forclarity) or "Inspiration" (for brevity)? I'm leaning toward the former.

I had been thinking that without Paths, there's no need to mention different experience costs for Ruling, Common, andInferior Colleges; but since MCG doesn't address the details of how Gifted character creation differs from Magecharacter creation, it's entirely possible that a given Storyteller might decide to implement some alternate method forestablishing Ruling and/or Inferior C olleges; so leave them as is.

Man, I just having a hell of a day when it comes to sheets...

Anyway, I made all those corrections. Thanks for catching those. I have the sheet updated(same link as above).

Thanks for the help with this, I really appreciate it. And I'll see what I can't do about changing the border sometime. So youthink the old 2nd ed Mage border(I think thats the Technocracy one) would be good to use?


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Dataweaver

Mr Gone wrote:


Anyway, I made a ll those corrections. Thanks for catching those. I have the sheet updated(same link as above).

It still says "-1 dice per extra spell" under Experiments Performed Upon Self. Sorry.

Mr Gone wrote:

Thanks for the help with this, I really appreciate it. And I'll see what I can't do about changing the border sometime.So you think the old 2nd ed Mage border(I think thats the Technocracy one) would be good to use?

Guide to the Technocracy had its own border, one that had a bit more of a "techno" feel to it. I'll see about getting an image ofit for you.



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14/27

Wednesday, September 14, 2011 12:14:13AM(UTC)

#36

WWW


#37

| Edit byuser


#38

Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:


Anyway, I made all those corrections. Thanks for catching those. I have the sheet updated(same link asabove).


Crap. Sorry about that. Fixed again. :P

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:

Thanks for the help with this, I really appreciate it. And I'll see what I can't do about changing the bordersometime. So you think the old 2nd ed Mage border(I think thats the Technocracy one) would be good to use?

Guide to the Technocracy had its own border, one that had a bit more of a "techno" feel to it. I'll see about getting animage of it for you.

This one: http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/MtA/Mage2ndEdTechnocracy4-PageSheet_Editable.pdf ?


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Dataweaver

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:



Looks good now.

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:

Guide to the Technocracy had its own border, one that had a bit more of a "techno" feel to it. I'll see aboutgetting an image of it for you.


That's the one - though if you could find a version that doesn't have the Technocracy symbol in the upper corners, so muchthe better. And if you could snag that title font as well, that would be great.



Mr Gone

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15/27

WWW


#39


#40

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:



Looks good now.

Coolness!

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:

Guide to the Technocracy had its own border, one that had a bit more of a "techno" feel to it. I'll seeabout getting an image of it for you.


That's the one - though if you could find a version that doesn't have the Technocracy symbol in the upper corners, somuch the better. And if you could snag that title font as well, that would be great.

Yup...I made that sheet, so I can take the symbo ls off. I also added that logo, so I can use it.

You like that font for the sheet then? I'll see what I can do about making a new Gifted sheet using that stuff then...hopefullysoonish...


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Dataweaver

Mr Gone wrote:

You like that font for the sheet then? I'll see what I can do about making a new Gifted sheet using that stuffthen...hopefully soonish...

The title font (i.e., "Technocracy" at the top of the page) would work well for "Gifted". But the font for the rest of the pageshould be the "Mage: the Awakening" font rather than the "Mage: the Ascension" font.



Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:

You like that font for the sheet then? I'll see what I can do about making a new Gifted sheet using that stuffthen...hopefully soonish...

The title font (i.e., "Technocracy" at the top of the page) would work well for "Gifted". But the font for the rest of thepage should be the "Mage: the Awakening" font rather than the "Mage: the Ascension" font.

Think so? Could I use that title font throu hout....

http://www.web2pdfconvert.com/?ref=PDFhttp://www.web2pdfconvert.com/?ref=PDFhttp://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1159195#post1159195http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=profile&u=2145http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1159192#post1159192http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=profile&u=2408http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=43442http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/MtA/Mage2ndEdTechnocracy4-PageSheet_Editable.pdf


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#41

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#42

But, if you think the awakening font would be best for the headers and such, I'll use it.


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Dataweaver

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:

You like that font for the sheet then? I'll see what I can do about making a new Gifted sheet using thatstuff then...hopefully soonish...

The title font (i.e., "Technocracy" at the top of the page) would work well for "Gifted". But the font for the restof the page should be the "Mage: the Awakening" font rather than the "Mage: the Ascension" font.

Think so? Could I use that title font throughout....


I had been thinking of keeping the Awakening font for the rest of the page for the same reason that you kept the Ascensionfont for most of that Technocracy character sheet: it maintains a small hint that this is still Mage: the Awakening, regardlessof how much of the terminology and aesthetics have changed.

That said, the inclusion of "Mage: the Awakening" in its title font immediately under the "Gifted" title would do a better job ofthat, much like how you have "Mage: the Ascension" underscoring "Technocracy" on your Technocracy sheet. So perhaps youshoulduse the Technocracy font all the way through. It is legible enough for it.

BTW, the second page's title lacks a the Gifted font that the first page used. I wouldn't worry about it for now, especially ifyou're thinking about redoing the borders and fonts anyway.

Oh, and one last tweak (I swear, this is the last one!): change "Shadow Name" to simply "Name". The Gifted don't really go infor that stuff about names having actual power.



Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:

Dataweave r wrote:

Mr Gone wrote:

You like that font for the sheet then? I'll see what I can do about making a new Gifted sheetusing that stuff then...hopefully soonish...

The title font (i.e., "Technocracy" at the top of the page) would work well for "Gifted". But the font forthe rest of the page should be the "Mage: the Awakening" font rather than the "Mage: the Ascension"font.

Think so? C ould I use that title font throughout....


I had been thinking of keeping the Awakening font for the rest of the page for the same reason that you kept theAscension font for most of that Technocracy character sheet: it maintains a small hint that this is still Mage: theAwakening, regardless of how much o f the terminology and aesthetics have changed.

That said, the inclusion of "Mage: the Awakening" in its title font immediately under the "Gifted" title would do a betterjob of tha t, much like how you have "Mage: the Ascens ion" underscoring "Technocracy" on your Technocracy shee t. Soperhaps you shoulduse the Technocracy font all the way through. It is legible enough for it.

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#43


#44

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 2:33:15 #45

Yea..good point.

I'll play around with it when I start rebuilding it, see how it looks. But yea, adding a "Mage the Awakening" under the logo inthe regular MtA font might work good...

Thanks.

Dataweave r wrote:

BTW, the second page's title lacks a the Gifted font that the first page used. I wouldn't worry about it for now,especially if you're thinking about redoing the borders and fonts anyway.

Just checked and there was a font embedding issue. Should be fixed now.

BTW, as for that font, I was having trouble finding one I liked, so I settled for that one. But yea, won't be a big deal if I'mgonna rebuild it...

Dataweave r wrote:

Oh, and one last tweak (I swear, this is the last one!): change "Shadow Name" to simply "Name". The Gifted don'treally go in for that stuff about names having actual power.

Whoops...sorry, thought I fixed that. I did for Psychics, but guess I forgot for this one. Fixed now too..


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Dataweaver

Looks like all of the bugs are gone now (I am notgoing to ask you to rebuild the dropdown boxes under the Experimentssection on the back page; going through all of that to replace "Death" with "Morbid Studies", etc., and then putting it back intoalphabetical order strikes me as way too much effort for not enough of a gain). That said, I'm looking forward to thereskinned version.



Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

Looks like all of the bugs are gone now (I am notgoing to ask you to rebuild the dropdown boxes under theExperiments section on the back page; going through all of that to replace "Death" with "Morbid Studies", etc., andthen putting it back into alphabetical order strikes me as way too much effort for not enough of a gain). That said, I'mlooking forward to the reskinned version.

Oh crap...I forgot those were all drop down with spells. Do you want me to make those regular type in lines for the newversion? Or I can go through and rename those...I think. Guess we can see. Soprry about that...totally spaced.

Anyway, just so you know, it's possible I might have someone that can make me a totally original border and logo for thissheet. He just got done helping me with a project for NWoD(hopefully to be announced later today or tomorrow) and I askedif he'd be interested in making an original border for this. So, we'll see how that goes.

If not, then I'll be using the border we discussed.

Thanks for all the help!! I appreciate it.

Oh, speaking of that, how did you like the "Tools" section on this sheet? I couldn't get room on the front page for somethinglike that, so I thought a section on page 2 might be better. Hope that turned out ok for you..


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Dataweaver

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:31:52PM(UTC)

#46

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Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:30:10

PM(UTC)#47

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Friday, September 16, 2011 1:36:41AM(UTC)

#48

Type-in lines for the Experiments (i.e., spells) should suffice, as it's unlikely that a Gifted Scientist's Experiments and ProvenTheories would share the names of their spell and rote counterparts.

I was wondering how you would manage the Tools, because I didn't see any way that you'd be able to find space for themnext to the Colleges. What you did works out quite nicely, IMHO. Kudos!



Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

Type-in lines for the Experiments (i.e., spells) should suffice, as it's unlikely that a Gifted Scientist's Experiments andProven Theories would share the names of their spell and rote counterparts.

Ok, coolness. It shall be done. Not sure why I didn't think of that before . I was having a bad day when it came to sheet

work...lol.

Dataweave r wrote:

I was wondering how you would manage the Tools, because I didn't see any way that you'd be able to find space for

them next to the Colleges. What you did works out quite nicely, IMHO. Kudos!

Ok, coolness! I was hoping that'd work out. Thanks!


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Mr Gone

Ok, got new Gifted and Psychics sheets done. Give these a look and see what you think. I think they turned out pretty good.

Hope you like em.




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Dataweaver

Ooh! Shiny! I really, really like the way that the Gifted sheet turned out! (EDIT: one last change, please. Could you change"Order" to "Foundation" and "Legacy" to "Academy"? It's a bit more of a stretch than most of the changes that have beenmade; but still...)

The one problem that I have is with the Psychic sheet.

I'm not at home; so I have to view this on my iPad, which doesn't give me access to the editable features. So be it: exceptthat the Morality Substitute header is completely absent in my viewer. Is this a necessary evil brought on by the need to beable to customize that header, or is there a way around this issue?

My main concern here has to do with what happens if someone who cannot edit the sheet wants to print it out. As thingsstand, he gets a blank spot where he can scribble in either "Self-Control" or "Sanity", depending on the Storyteller's choice.

While that's certainly functional, it's a bit ugly.

Would it be too much to ask for a pair of nearly identical Psychic sheets, differing only in which Morality substitute gets used?Something like setting up the existing sheet to use Self-Control, and also providing an "Awakening 1-Page Psychics withSanity Editable" that uses Sanity instead? It's not like the Psychic section talks about using whatever Morality substitute youwant to; the baseline assumption is that it will be Self-Control, and Sanity only shows up as an optional rule for an alreadyoptional system.


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Friday, September 16, 2011 11:58:51AM(UTC)

#49

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Friday, September 16, 2011 8:42:17PM(UTC)

#50

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Mr Gone

Dataweave r wrote:

Ooh! Shiny! I really, really like the way that the Gifted sheet turned out! (EDIT: one last change, please. Could youchange "Order" to "Foundation" and "Legacy" to "Academy"? It's a bit more of a stretch than most of the changes thathave been made; but still...)

I wondered if someone might not ask for that change....I'll see what I can do..

Dataweave r wrote:

The one problem that I have is with the Psychic sheet.

I'm not at home; so I have to view this on my iPad, which doesn't give me access to the editable features. So be it:except that the Morality Substitute header is completely absent in my viewer. Is this a necessary evil brought on bythe need to be able to customize that header, or is there a way around this issue?

My main concern here has to do with what happens if someone who cannot edit the sheet wants to print it out. Asthings stand, he gets a blank spot where he can scribble in either "Self-Control" or "Sanity", depending on the

Storyteller's choice. While that's certainly functional, it's a bit ugly.

Most PDF viewers should be able to view it fine. It's because that header is interactive that it doesn't display on the iPad. Andyea, my iPad has issues displaying form fields too.

Dataweave r wrote:

Would it be too much to ask for a pair of nearly identical Psychic sheets, differing only in which Morality substitute getsused? Something like setting up the existing sheet to use Self-Control, and also providing an "Awakening 1-PagePsychics with Sanity Editable" that uses Sanity instead? It's not like the Psychic section talks about using whateverMorality substitute you want to; the baseline assumption is that it will be Self-C ontrol, and Sanity only shows up as anoptional rule for an already optional system.

Yea, I might be able to do something like that. I'll see what I can do...

Edit: Looks like I'm not going home for lunch today, so I'll post the new links after work today..


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Mr Gone

Here are the new links:



http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/MtANWOD/Awakening1-Page_Psychicsv2_Editable.pdf


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Expanding the Gifted Options View

Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:52:42AM(UTC)

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:12:16PM(UTC)

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White Wolf New World of Darkness Mage: The Awakening Expanding the Gifted

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Dataweaver

I like the Gifted Science section from Mage Chronicler's Guide a lot; but I've come to the conclusion that it's incomplete.The purpose of this topic is to propose ways to expand on what MCG provided, and/or to play around with the ideas presentedthere.

A quick note before I begin: I don't think that Gifted Scientists should be viewed as "me

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