7
HALL OF FAME, 1963ROCK, 1960, '51. '62, '63, '64, '65RECORDED PERFORMANCE, 1961. '02, 'GJ, '55MULTI- PERCUSSIONIST, 1953, '54, '65PERCUSSION INSTRUMENTALIST, 1902MOST PROMISING NEW DRUMMER, 1960
N~il P~Q,t
by Scott K. Fish•
"STEALING SOMEONE'S SOUND IS AKINTO STEALING SOMEONE'S SONG,"
LIKE allrac{s like. As /'I"/! Iravell!daoom Ihe narllteaslern portion ofIhe u.s. a,'erthelaSllwo years, "ve
run '"/Q Neil Peart fans in Ihe smmgeslplaces. When' meel people for the firstlime, {hey'll usually ask. "Whol do youdo?" "I'm a wriler. •• "What do you writeabout?" I answer, "Many Ihings, butmoslly / wrilt aOOr" drummers." Thesepeople generallyexcuS/' themselves in shorlorder.
Neil Peart jans are different. One evening I was 01 a lecture, Qnd / began Q ronversation with a busboy who wid me thOlhe was an aspiring writer. "Whot do youwrilt aboul?" I askffi. "MOSlly poe/ry.""Which poets are your favorites?""Well," he said,:."! Trolly like Neil Pearl.He writes Iyrtcs/alu group coiled Rush. "
f could tell you about a handful ofsuchencounrers. One thing is for sure: NeilPeart has influenced. and continues 10irifluence, a 101 of young people. Surelyhe's nos/ranger 10 MD readers. He's beenon MD's cover twice, he's won nlml~rOUS
times in numerous MD Readers Poll care·gories, he's wrillen artidesfor MD, he isconlinuously being asked questions in theAsk A Pro column, and he e"en gave hisdrumsel away through Ihe maga~ine!
This in/elView was done over Ihe te/ephone. Neil had been home in Canada fora few days afler spending several monrhsin England recording the new Rush album.SF: Have there been any people, styles, ortechnological advancements in the last tenyears that caused you to grow, or thatchanged your style of drumming?NP: Certainly tltere have been, although ittends to be less one person than it is the old'·passing of the torch," where one drummer develops things to a certain extent,passes it on to someone, and so on. Theprogress of almost anything is very muchlike a relay race. but particularly in drumming, because it's such an interior field,restricted 10 Ihe people whodo it and to tltepeople who really care about it. It kind ofgoes on beltind closed doors, but that
advancement is always moving forward.In retrospect, the largest advancement
over the last ten years iselectroniC$. Loveitor nOI, it is a major thing. The people wholead the field in that, to my mind, would beBill Bruford and Terry Bozzio, in differentways. The explorations that these guysmake wOTk to everyone's advamage. Idon't want to go as uncompromisinglyelectric as Terry Bozzio has gone, but atthe same time, [can enjoy and appreciatewhat he's doing, and admire the courageand technique that it takes TO really do itwell. You can listen to electronic noise andknow that it doesn't mean anything, butwhen you watch Terry Bozzio play elec·tronic drums, it is exciting and essentiallymusical, because he has the technique toback it up. The same goes for Bill Bruford,with his more rhythmic, ethnic kinds ofexplorations.
Even a non·drummer like TltomasDolby, for instance, uses a lot of electronicdrums and drum machines, but as a musician, Ite has a great sense of rhythm. As adrummer, I find it satisfying to listen to,Peter Gabriel is another example of that.
He's not a drummer. but he has a greatsenseofrhythm-wlta\ rhytltm isand whatit can do. Consequently, his music is veryinfluential to me, even though he uses anumbel of different drummers and sometimes just drum machines. He Itas the ability to make it all have rhythmic integrity,which is difficult wlten you're drawingfrom ethnic sources the way he is.S}": Recently. I had a Telephone conversation with a good friend. He's a well·knowndrummer who's very muclt invol"ed andinterested in drum electronics. He hadplayed on the laSI II albums of a majorartist. On the twelfth album. a drummachine was used inSTead. My friend'ssnare drum sound was pTocessed onto a
digital cltip and used on Ihe album. So hewasn't on tlte album, didn't get paid. andyet in a real sense he was on The albumsoundwise.NP: There's a real ne'" morality tltat Itas tobe developed for sampling. In lookingaltead to tlte next ten years, the biggestthing that will be happening is the abilityand facility to make your own digitalchips-sampling any sound under the sunand having iT as part of your drumkit. Thisis something thaT I'm moving into rightnow, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.It's so intriguing to have otherwise unattainable sounds. It's not going to comeeven e10se to replacing my acoustic drums.My drumset isn't going to get any smalleror look any different. But the electronicthings that I use will be used in so manydifferent ways.
The morality comes into it in JUSt suchan instance as you mentioned. [ ran intothat during the rei:ording of our newalbum. We were looking for a particularsound. and somebody suggested that wetake it offso-and-so's rei:ord. I said, "No,no, no!" It·s Ihal person's sound. The
work involved in creating a sound is sometimes comparable to the work involved incoming up with an idea for a song. Stealingsomeone's sound is akin TO stealing someone's song, as far as I'm concerned. Youcan't help being irifluenced by a sound.You may even Try to imitate it, just as youmay try to imitate a song. It's STili not thesame as out and out copying. For instance,we set out to get African sounds out ofmydrums. That's not tlte same as taking asample off of someone else's Tecord andmaking a chip out of it. It works bolhways. I wouldn't be happy if it were doneto me, I know wltat it sometimes takes toget a good snare drum sound, and the
roJItinwd(NIP"V 64
P~r rondnurdfrom po,. /7amount of work, experience, knowledge,and tuning ability that it takes-not tomention the engineer's ability to place themicrophones and put it on tape properly.There are an a..... fullO!: of people's lives literaJly involved in that process. For somebody to just swipe that olfa record tubs mea lillie wroog,SF: My friend's reaaion to it .....as a loss ofenthusiasm towards drum electronics.NP: Yeah. Again, it can .....ork bOl:h .....ays.For- example, there is one song off the DeW
album .....here "'e ,,'ere pla)ing all of mySimmons drums .....ith samples. I rented awhole pile of African drums-some biggiant ones covered .....i1h some strange kindof skin-some Indian tabla dtums, and alldifferentthinp. We .....ent through them alland chose the ones I wanted to make a
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drumkit out of. Two tablas, a talkingdrum, and a gianl African tribal drUIDbecame my four tom-toms. I was able toplay the instruments myself, make theumpld from them, ha"e chips made, andthat became my drumset.
Our producer .....orks in London all Ihetime. He's become very jaded about theSimmons sound. He didn't really wanltohear it, SO we found olher ways of Iteuingaround thai. There were times when Ivocalized a lillie single-stroke roll, andthat's exactly .....hat you har-my voicedoing a single.stroke roll. That .....as exciting-a very natura! way of using electronicdrums. Tbe African drums are really themost primitive kinds of drums there are,and I was using the cutting edge of electronic technology to reproduce them.When you take thai further to where youcan have the sound of can being crushed,glass breaking, or garbage cans fallingover-anyone of thde sounds can ha~'e
the potential of being part of a percussionensemble. That's where it becomes excit·ing-where it becomes honestly innovativeand exploratory. Copying off other peo.pie's records is incestuous.
Drum machines have the same potential, I think they are starting to become lessprevalenl on records. More and more pe0
ple may be putting things down with drummachines, but they have real drummerscome in and make it feel Sood. Drum
machines are for songwriters. As asongwriting 1001, they're invaluable. Youcan't begrudge them. They help the drummer out a lot by givins an accurate pictureof what the songwriter really wanu tohear. During the ne..... album, these Ihingscame more clearly into focus.
Rush is a three-piece band where, basically, the other t.....o auys .....rile Ihe musicand I write the lyrics. A 101 of times, ...·henI'm olf "'orking on the words, they'rewor-ki08on themusic.I'mnotthefetobearhythmic part orit, but therean program adrum machine 10 give me some idea of howthey're thinking. It becomes a spring·board. I could ne'ier play I song the way adrum machine..-ould, panicularly becauseI'm a hyperactive pla)'cr. But I certainlyusc it as a foundation, and oflen a ...eryinteresting one. Sometimes it points me ina way that I wouldn't otherwise haveexplored. Sometimd they come up ....ithsomething on the drum machine thatsounds deceptively simple, but it can be aspringboard into interesting areas.S.·: You're admired as both drummer andlyricist. Phil Collins is admired as singer/song....riter/drummer. Stewart Copelandhas been writing movie soundtracks inaddition 10 his drumming. Do you thinkthat this role expansion by drummers is ahealthy sign that we'll s.ee more of in thefUlure?NP: I would have to think so. h's difficult
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buying a lot of things for which the personhas no use.SF: There's an aspect of the professionaluse of electronics that must be frustratingto young drummers. Your use of Africandrums on digital chips is an example. Itseems that, unless young players have anawful lot of money, there's no way thatthey are going to be able to duplicate manyof the sounds they're hearing pro drummers use on today's recordings.NP: It is true that the drumming of TerryBomo and Bill Bruford-especially thestuff Bill did with King Crimson-is reallydifficult to reproduce without some sophisticated equipment. It's still nothing like thenightmare that the keyboard player faccs.With drums, you can buy a Clap Trap for acouple of hundred bucks and get some
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much related to the way thai drumslooked. The first time I ever saw a set ofdrums, I thought they were beautifulthings. &cond, of course, is that you playthem by hilling them. It was a physicalrelationship that I responded to rightaway. I was a lot more interested in thatthan tinkling a piano, plucking strings, orblowing into things.
A person who comes into it with thatsame kind of approach would maybe gotowards electronic drums. Electronicdrums have a lot of learning advantages,really. As the pad surfaces become moreperfected, which they seem to be, therewi\lbe no disadvantage in that. It will give youthe advantage of being able to practice alot, which I wasn't able to do, because ofthe loudness of drums. That's a limitationin a physical sense, too. Hopefully, drummers will study both acoustic and elec·tronic drums, and hopefully things liketouch, dynamics, and the subtletics ofplaying~that only real drums can evergive you-won't be lost. It may be that aperson who can afford an inexpensiveacousticdrumsct will. instead of saving foranother acoustic bass drum and tom-toms,be saving for a supplementary electronicset. They will get less and less expensive.All those types of machines do. It will bepossible for a person to have a small acoustic set and a small electronic set, instead ofexpanding an acoustic set too quickly, or
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to know. I think that the ability to organizewords is the same mental process as themathematical ability to organize beats andsubdivide time the way drummers do. Forme, the transition to words is a naturalone. From the first time I went to school, Iwas always in love with language. I tend tothink that drumming does have a lot incommon with words, but the two may notalways go together.
If people are at least lhinking of otherthings-cenainly more drummers wouldthink about singing through Phil Collins'work, or about geuing more into composition and textural works as Stewart Copeland has done, or about writing lyrics. Allof these can contribute so much to a band.It seems to me that doing arrangements isthe natural area for drummers to moveinto first. That's where I think I started toget a little more adventurous in musicbefore I ever thought of writing lyrics. Iliked to contribute arrangement ideas tothe band-intros and outros-becausethey're fundamental things that a lillIeimagination can help you communicate,and you don't have to develop your theoretical knowledge. There's probably atrend now-maybe you know more aboutthis than me-for drummers to be bellereducated hannonically. They might starton or learn another instrument contemporaneously with drums, or they learn harmony in school.SF: In my optimistic moments, I agree , -'-_-"".......""""""..........._with you. However, I see much evidence tothe contrary, where many young drummers are asking, "What's the least amountof work I have to do, in order to get themost from my drumming?" Max Weinberg has a theory that we might be seeingpeople who strive to master the drummachine instead of the drumkit.NP: Drums are such a physical instrumentthough. That would already require a different mentality. One of the things that Iliked about drums from day one was thatyou hit them. I don't think that will changein a lot of cases. A kid who gravitatestoward the Linn, for instance, would probably otherwise have been a keyboardplayer or a computer programmer. Thatperson's affinity for drums wouldn't havebeen the same as mine. Mine was verymuch a physical affinity. First of all, I very
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inleresting electronic rounds to play with.Whal you have to have nowadays to beeven remole/yon top oflhe leading edge inkeyboard technology is frightening. Keyboards are gettingsmaller in size, higher inprier, and greater in capabilities, whichmeans that you have to learn so muchmore. How many years does it take 10learn to playa piano properly? Then addthe amount of knowledge Ihal you have 10
further acquire to understand and explorefully the abilities of electronic instruments.
It's getting like that for drummers, 100.I'm a liuledaunted by what I'm having toget inlolodo whatt want to do right now.I don't have Ihe kind of mind for which
electronic things are immediately crystalclear. I have to spend a lot of time, swealing over the manual$. I've laken steps toacquire the latest Simmons E-Prom sys·tern, ro I can make my own chips. I'mreally excilC'd by the potential of thaI. Iwouldn't let myself nOf do it. but at thesame time, I know I'm letting myself in fora lot of aggravation and headaches.Beyond the 20 years that I've spent trying10 make myself a reasonably proficientdrummer, all of a sudden I feel like I'mstarting in kindergarten again.SF: Do you have a reaction to the flood ofcosmetic drum produclS we're seeing now?In a recent MDarlicle, one drum manufac-
lurer was attributing the cosmetics to therise in popularity of video.NP; I've always been into the visuals ofdrums. I've always likC'd • good-lookingdrumsel. Video hasn't changed that forme. Since it's my work place, I like to havemydrumset neat and looking nice. It couldbe that these cosmetic products are due towhat I described, or it could be due tovideo. In many cases, you don't even sn adrumset in videos. They either have a lillietoken snarc drum, bass drum, Simmonskit, or no drummer. Sometimes a drummer is hitting a piece of wood!SF: Are today's drums better made thanthe drums you played ten years ago?NP: There's no question that they are better. Thestandardsof qualily have certainlyimproved. I don't know if they SQundbetter, and that has to be the bottom line.St': Putting endorsements aside for amoment, is there any drumset you'veowned that you felt was better than anyother drumset you've owned?NP: t couldn't say that, but the first gooddrumset I had certainly meant more to methan any other could. That's only natural.1started out with a really cheap sel of Stewart drums. When 1 went up to a set ofRogers, it was the greatest thing. How canI describe that? I don't know how theywould compare soundwise to today'sdrums. The sound hasn't gOlten worse,that's for sure.St': Moving on to styles and influences,you don't seem to be influenerd much byjazz.NP: Well, of course, my fOOts do comefrom jazz. I grew up listening to big bandjatz, which my father loved-GlennMiller, Duke EUington, Count Basie, andthe great drummers who played with them.Frank Sinatl1l and Tony Bennetl alwayshad great musicians, aoo drummers likeGene Krupa and Kenny Clare influencedme greatly-such disciplined exuberance.Thesedays,t must admit that I like Ihe sideof jazz that deals more with the thrust andorganization of rock. When jazz lacksthat, it tends 10 lack me. Heavy Weatherby Weather Report was a very innuentialalbum for me. All the stuff Ihat Bill Bruford did on his three or four solo albumswas also really, really great.
I have to tell you that 1 recently got toplay on Jeff Berlin's solo album. On one
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track, I got 10 play together with Steve tal sections into the pieces of Ihe song. All growth. It has to be good. But the things ISmith. Steve actually did most ofthc play- of that has gottcn really fascinating for us. mentioned carlicr arc all percussion ideas.ing. I JUSt came in on the choruses for that We thinlr.: that the face of our music is I don't think they're going to add to a fun···thunderous double-d.rum effect," That chanaing from having been progressive to damental drumse!. They can'l replacewas a lot of fun and a real exciling chal- not being progressi>·e. For us, we're pro- what an 8x 12 tom·tom sounds like, anylenge. It was • major mileslone for me 10 aressing. That's al1lhat progressive music more than they can replace whal a 24" basswalk into a situation like thai .....ith no can be, and ies just as difficult for us to drum sounds like. Electronics has reallyrehearsal. All I'd c.·er heard of the music think of and to play. To us, ii'S 10talJy sat- failed in its emulalina sense, but at thebefore ....S I living-room demo wirh a beal isfyinllnd proarcssive. Perhaps from Ihe same time, it hasopcned upso many doorsbox. point of viev-' of an outsider who judgcs tOlllard differenl Ihina5 that arc reallySF: hn'tlhallhe' finltime you've recorded only on the' superficialily of lechnique, it e:llcililll.with someone ocher than Rush? mighl Sttm simpler. Believc mc, it's not. Impro'·cffient in pads will be' a "ery bi3NP: No. I did a dmilar thing wilh a musi- SF: Looking ahead tm yean, would )·ou road in the futurc. 1bcy definitely have toclan named Km Ramm in Toronlo. ThaI like 10 lab a Slab al whal you misbt be Jet better. JUSI about c..cry year, a newrecord was rdeascd in Canada. doing, Ind what olher trends and slyles of design in pads comes OUt ...ith better andSF:Whoare$Omcdrummcrswho'vcin8u_ drumminl might cmergc'! morc lifclike response. But it's slill anenccd you, other than the ones you usually NP: It's tough 10 play SOOIhsayer. Elec- cnormous gulf bct"'·cen Icnin, lifelikemention'! tronies moving inlo Ihe area of .sampliltll, pads in response and lifelikc pads in termsNP: Thcre certainly ha,'c been many, but being ablc to makc your own chips-this is of sound reproduction. How many differ-they'rc alwayuo hard to pull olflhe top of a '.cry imponant turning point. With thc ent sounds can a snare drum make'! Whatmy head. Simon Phillips, Andy Newmarlr.:, miniaturization and availability of these an acoustic snare drum can produce isand Slewart Copeland come to mind, as things to thc average learning musician. cnormous. But is it possiblc to programwcll as Jerry Marotta. [ panicularly like thc trend towards having both acoustic cach of those variables and each of thosethc work that Jcrry and Phil Collins have and electronic drums will grow. ThaI'S sound possibilities electronically? I thinkdone with Peter Gabriel. I like elhnic very healthy, but it always has to be good we're a long way off from that, if in factideas. I listen to a lot of rcggae, and the for a drummer 10 start on real drums. They thai ever becomes possible.percussion on modern African music- havc subtleties and tonalitics rhat I don't SF: So, you don't forcscc thc death of thelike King Sunny Ade-has been very innu- think electronics will ever manage to imi- art of acoustic drumming?ential to me. [like Rod Morgenslein a lot; tate totally. Thcy have become a separate NP: I'll be brave and say no. All the prcde~
he's a good player and a lovcly guy. War- thing unto their own. They've become a cessors dictate the rightness or that. Theren Cann from Ultravolt, Steve Jansen percussion instrumcnl, really, morc than a grand piano isn't gone yet. The acousticfrom Japan, and Chris Sharrock from The drumse1. The potentiality, especially ror violin isn't gonc. Thc acoustic auitar is stilllciclc Works do some imereslina things. percussion, of having your own drum here, and look at the competition it's had!I'd also like to add Omar Hakim, Pcter chips of any sound at thc hit of a stick or I'll talr.:c a chance and say that acouslicErskine, and Alc:x Acuna to the list. the tap of a foot pedal is an enormous drumswon'tbcgonccither. 'fSF: Rcgardiltll your o"'n playing, somc riiiiii"iliiiliiiiijiiiiiiiiliiiiiiiTiilii]l\l\li\\\iLl;;:~people I','e spoken to feel that Rush's lasttwo albums werc more commercial thanusual. Was that on purpose? Is Ihe newalbum going 10 be mOl'"C progressive'!!\'P: Wcl.I, if ...e werc trying 10 bccommcrciaI, wc failed. It's the cominuingstllesofgrowth as far as ""e're concerned. Themore we learned aboullcchniquc, arrangcmenu, compositions, and all thaI. themore wc got involved with iI, and the lessimponanl instrumenlal panache became.Once you'vc done ii, it ceascs 10 be important. Once you'vc done a few long instrumenials in 7/8, 9/S, 21/16 and wbat haveyou, there's never any point in rcdoina il.The ract is that we've donc ii, and il willalways be a part of our music. There's anicc long workout in 7/8 on the newalbum, because we'vc found a new way touse an idea likc thaI. On the last albumthere were dabblings in odd time, but it'sbecomc less imponant. That's all. Weknow ourselves that wc can do it, andwc'vc explored its possibilities.
We had to go on to something else,which for us was sonS structure. We lookour technical abilily along wilh us, andnow when ""cgotoarrangcasong, nothin!stands in the wly of trying any kind of different permutations or rhythmic shifts.Morc and mOl'"e you look for different waysof achieving tcxturc, and different ways ofusing mclody and compuling songarraD,cmcnts-where )'ou place the VCf"SCSand choruses. ",·hal kind of intro youdevelop, and oow fOU .....ork: the inslrumcn-
