He Says, She Says: Gender and Worklife

He Says, She Says: Gender and WorklifeAuthor(s): Mary HaleSource: Public Administration Review, Vol. 59, No. 5 (Sep. - Oct., 1999), pp. 410-424Published by: Wiley on behalf of the American Society for Public AdministrationStable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/977424 .

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He Says, She Says:

Gender and Worklife

Mary Hale, Choices International, Inc.

Comprehending and overcoming the resistance to equal employment opportunity outcomes requires not only having sufficient

documentation and having "enough" women in the pipeline (both

of which exist), but also an understanding of the interactions and

"lived experiences" among men and women that perpetuates this

resistance in organizations. This article explores these dynamics

and relevant themes through conversations with men and women

working in public organizations about how gender affects their

workplace. In it, a communication model is proposed that is use-

fulfor diagnostics and intervention in organizations desiring to

improve workplace relations and create a more equal workforce.

Introduction Many studies have shown that women often

encounter glass ceilings when they try to make their way up the organizational promotion lad- der. They often feel excluded from power, side- tracked, and socially isolated. The literature has suggested that men are reluctant to give up power; they are uncomfortable dealing with women, whom they believe are different from themselves and are, therefore, unreliable or unpredictable. This article explores some of these themes through conversations with men and women about how gender affects their workplace. Some of the themes from the literature were confirmed in these conversations, others were modified or expanded, and new ones emerged. The result is a better understanding of how gender affects work life, and suggestions for creating a more equal, and calmer, workforce.

I propose a communication model that is useful for diagnostics and intervention in organizations that want to improve workplace relations for current and potential future employees. The study described here is the result of the exploratory field study of this model, the Con- versation Project. This ongoing project is aimed at understanding the perceptions and perspectives of male and female managers and administrators' and how those perceptions of gender affect the workplace. Male and female public administration professionals were asked to talk about how gender affects their work relationships; what they think about gender relations in organizations, as they relate to the work they do; and what issues they consider most important. The Conversation Project is unique because it incorporates men's perspectives, insights, and understandings alongside those of women in a group conversation about the different or shared realities of their work-life relationships.

410 Public Administration Review * September/October 1999, Vol. 59, No. 5



Examining different points of view on this issue elucidates how professionals perceive gender as shaping work relations and experiences; in addition, it illu- minates how these experiences influence behavior that main- tains unequal employment opportunities.

My assumption is that gain- ing insight into how professionals perceive gender relations in the workplace can help us to more fully understand what is involved in changing the current reality in organizations and can improve efforts to end systemic gender-based discrimination. Not only will such improvements help women achieve equality, they will also help men feel to more comfortable working with women. The knowledge generated by this project will be useful to administrators and managers who want to understand the factors that impede women's advancement; to researchers working to identify the factors that perpetuate gender inequality in organizations; and to decision makers who want to initiate a process for constructive change.

Research Framework and Methodology This study explored how professional men and women

in public-sector workplaces perceive the relationship between gender and their 'lived' work experiences. The study was built on a focus-group design with in-depth, follow-up telephone interviews. The data are based on two focus group discussions and interviews with public administration professionals, both conducted in 1995. The participants included 23 men and women aged 36- 56.2 The 12 participants in the first group were public administration faculty from public universities in six states; the 11 participants in the second group were mid- level practitioners and top-level administrators from public-sector organizations and government agencies in eight states.3 Practitioners and academicians were separated to gather data from individuals who contribute to current thinking and practice in two different areas within the public administration profession- those practicing "in the field" and those instructing current and future professionals. While public administration programs in public universities and government organizations differ from public workplace arenas, both are heavily male-dominated and are assumed to be typical of workplaces in terms of gender relations, prejudice, and stereotypes. The focus group discussions used both male and female co-facilita- tors and were recorded in closed, 90-minute sessions. The focus groups were designed to recruit and prepare participants who would be willing to take part in the second phase of the research study; that is, to participate in struc-

Figure 1 Focus Group Issues and Descriptors

1. Internalization and Identity Self-)udgments based on incorporated stereotypes, perceptions, assumptions; concerns of diversity and multicultural issues related to race, class, and age.

2. Emotionality and anger Intensity of feelings about the subject, men's anger. 3. White male anger Competitiveness, losing out, unfairness. 4. Power Power, powerlessness. 5. Sexuality Sexuality, sexual ideation and expression. 6. Discrimination Lack of objectivity in organizations. 7. Shared experience Women's shared experience, sense of invisibility and

isolation. 8. Trust Lack of trust between men and women; risk aversion,

fear of talking, taboos of the topic. 9. Communication Importance of listening, need to understand and be sen-

sitive to men's and women's different perspectives.

tured, open-response, follow-up telephone interviews. Three questions, designed to elicit stereotypic beliefs

and to enhance recall of gender-related experiences, were asked in the focus groups. Participants were first asked how they think they are perceived by the opposite sex. Next, to ground the discussion in the richness and com- plexity of subjective experience, they were asked to recall specific, actual experiences and to comment on their experience of men and women working together at mid- dle and top levels in organizations, or to comment on their personal history with or interest in the topic. To encourage participants to speak openly about their beliefs and concerns, they were finally asked what is at the heart of the matter for them-to share their personal experiences and stories. Tapes of the focus groups were transcribed and analyzed for emergent patterns.

The author then conducted a series of open-ended, qualitative telephone interviews with 22 participants. The interview consisted of 13 open-ended questions, posed in a specific order.4 The questions were selected to elicit feedback on the subjects' experiences in the focus group and to learn what they had found useful in the discussion. Participants were asked to rank the most important obstacles to overcoming workplace inequality.

The Findings: Issues and Gender Perspectives

The transcripts revealed nine key issues which are identified and described in Figure 1. These nine issues are: (1) internalization and identity, (2) emotionality and anger, (3) white male anger, (4) power, (5) sexuality, (6) discrimination, (7) trust, (8) communication, and (9) shared experience. Examining women's and men's concerns separately provided a better understanding of the subjective meanings of these issues. The excerpts in the following section illustrate the gender and intergroup differences on these issues.

Internalization and Identity

Internalization and identity5 encompass the learning

He Says, She Says: Gender and Worklife 411



and socialization processes by which individuals incorporate assumptions, perceptions, stereotypes, and misper- ceptions and make judgments about themselves based on the way they perceive others judge them. This issue also includes diversity and multicultural topics related to race, class, and age. In discussing self-perceptions and others' perceptions, most of the women's responses dealt with gender stereotypes and diversity in the workplace. In addition to being thought of as "emotional," women beliefs about how men perceive them is revealing. Half of the women were united in their sense of invisibility, isolation, and feelings of irrelevancy and marginalization. Those who thought men saw them as "bitches" or "not taken seriously" were clearly disturbed by these character- izations.

"I think I'm [seen as] someone to be placated... The question [they ask] is, 'Is this going to be important to her? Do we need to include her .. because she'll make things miserable for us if she is excluded?"'

-University professor

While certain women thought that some men see them as outsiders or one whom men "would like to see fail," most of the women believed men viewed them in a much more positive light, for example, as responsive, effective, talented, thoughtful, responsible, or as problem solvers. One woman's comments say it best:

"[I'm seen as] responsive, I get things done... [and] issues solved. I'm perceived as very strong, independent and competent... easy to work with and one of the boys. The guys...are perhaps threatened by it and, while I don't allow myself to fail, they would love to see it."

- Practitioner

Half of the women practitioners discussed the successful transitions they had made into management, but were clearly concerned with the stereotyping they received through socialization. One theme that emerged was that childhood socialization into family roles became crucial later in the workplace.

"I.. agree [about the emphasis on families]. You realized that once you'd get married someone would take care ofyou and that's the end ofyour career line.... But... men who are managers were not brought up by the same (messages)... we were. That could be a reason, not an excuse.. for behaviors that are going on in the workplace. "

Practitioner

In terms of workplace diversity issues, women mentioned concern with men's preservation of familiarity and the status quo, and the importance of attending to behav-

iors influenced by gender, race, and age, or combinations of these factors.

"The reality [is] that people are more comfortable with people like them....

That's what I notice with my colleagues... I'm perceived as different.

[The men] are much more comfortable with each other. And it goes up to the administration of the university.. .It's a matter of comfort and convenience."

- University professor

The men thought that women perceived them in polar ways. Most practitioners reported a positive spectrum of perceptions (as equitable, empathetic, sensitive, consider- ate, supportive, and responsive). In contrast, the academicians tended to believe that women see them in a relatively negative light (as remote, controlling, inconsid- erate, annoying, not trusted, and sometimes irate).

Emotion and Anger

Emotionality involves both the expression of feelings and the intensity of feelings provoked. Women spoke of being seen as emotional, and no one disputed one man's belief that "women are more attentive to and...more affected by emotional or impulsive expression." In assess- ing male co-workers' perceptions of her, a university professor said:

"I suspect male colleagues.. .perceive me as...over- ly emotional... To be emotional is considered unacceptable by [them]... I've been told.. by one male colleague that I risk losing my credibility on the faculty. He...said...one of my female colleagues already has lost her credibility because she has dared to be emotional.-.about professional matters.... You start feeling you can't win. "


Other comments from women revealed anger about male colleagues who ignored or refused to work with them but, as one expressed, still expected women to measure up to "what [men] believe is a rational, objective structure by which we are all judged."

Men and women responded quite differently to men's expression of anger in the workplace. Women expressed distress at some men's explosions of irrational anger, but the men's comments dramatically disclose a clear ease with such displays of anger. Two men's comments illustrate both points.

"I think all the females in my department see me as distant and manipulative. .. [and] as somebody




who has to be handled... who needs to be approached gently....[They] don't trust me very much.

University professor

"Im perceived [by female co-workers] as tactless and abrasive... masculine... [and] emotional.. to the point of [worrying! about whether I'm going to spin out of control or not. "

- University professor

As these examples show, emotionality and anger are clearly concerns when talking about gender in organizations.

White Male Anger

White male anger involves dimensions of competitiveness, losing out, and unfairness. While several men described themselves as angry, one frankly reported that he was liable to be stereotyped as an "angry white male." Another, who had previously been an EEO program director for a federal agency, spoke directly in terms of white male backlash.

"I see a huge backlash [by] white males who feel.. they aren't being promoted... [This was] my own particular situation in... the last three promotions I appliedfor in my...department. I had... close to thirty years' work experience...a Ph.D. in management.. .[and] an MB.A. from a leading business school; I had taught at a university [and] been in a large, private corporation plus the federal government. I was beaten out in three cases by women who had never even been to college and who were 14-18 years younger than me [and]... were minorities. They did not have one college degree.... Im not saying that this is the sole criterion, or that I'm any better than they were just because I have three degrees, but. .. to lose out to individuals .., with lesser qualifications... [is] not ... a close call. They got into professional positions having been a sec- retary... and... in... upward mobility programs.... That is what is disillusioning to so many people. It influenced my decision to retire.... There were no... opportunities for advancement.... That's... where you have some of this backlash... with the angry white male ... I think that lots ofpeople have thatfeeling. "

-Administrator

One woman, talking about white men's belief in reverse dibscrimination, spoke out:

"There's such a prevalent feeling that white men

are getting beat up on right now.. It is a signifi- cant barrier that really keeps us from communi- cating with each other [and] is really playing out in what's happening now in affirmative action.... The angry white man phenomenon is taboo. "


Power and Powerlessness

The issue of power and powerlessness was the third- most-frequently mentioned issue for women. Most of their responses reflected that power is important regardless of gender. Discussions about power included women's sense of being devalued or disempowered (that is feeling powerless) and men's behavior associated with privilege.

The following stories illustrate two of the small ways in which women view the connections between gender and power. The first describes how privileges played out in one organization.

"When I was working for the City of New York, the Commissioner... used to have meetings in this office around a circular table with the few [in higher-ranking positions] that were admitted into the inner sanctum. At some point, his executive assistant...would come in with a tray of espresso with four espresso cups. She would hold it for him and he would pour the espresso and hand it to particular people around the table. But there were many more people around the table than those four cups would accommodate, and it was always interesting to see who got the espresso. Never the women! [Laughter]. "


The second story shows that the image of bureaucratic organizations as male bastions persists among these women. As one stated,

"[Tihe government offices... I worked in have been described explicitly by most of the women I worked with...as 'men's locker rooms."


The women who spoke about these issues believe it is difficult for some men to accept women who are perceived as both powerless and powerful, and they interpret this double-bind as men not wanting to treat women as equals in the workplace. Other women saw the problem in terms of not being positioned to speak to those in power. As one professor put it, "I think we [women] never have conversations that really get through to someone in power." Such accounts demonstrate that symbols and use of power are real and, while it is probably not a




boss's intent to humiliate, such demeaning rituals create resentment each time they occur.

The following stories illustrate some men's belief that those who assert their rights "deserve" positive attention or reward, and that men (specifically white men) seek to maintain the status quo, with its attending set of privileges. The majority of stories came from men in universities.

"I have female] colleagues who won't stand up for their rights [or] speak up in meetings when it's necessary... You've got to establish that 'I deserve to be there."


"[The status quo exists because] ofpeople devel- oping an investment in retaining ...privileges and they just don't want to change.."


What is the root of this issue? The men point to organizational climate and individuality. Remarking on the threat that some men feel from smart women, one states,

"[Olne of the dilemmas and conflicts... seems to be that smart women... tend to threaten their male peers. "

-Administrator

A second male administrator saw something different; he thought women's lack of power is a result of perpetu- ating role distinctions.

"What's getting in the way are the roles that we expect of each other. The reality is that.. .guys...gain because there's this myth thrust on our spouses, and as a result, we don't have to wash our socks and do the dishes. "

-Administrator

Sexuality

Sexuality, the fourth-most-frequently discussed issue, was talked about in terms of sexual harassment or sexual tension and its effects on communication and acceptance within an organization. Listen to these women, both practitioners:

"There were very few women in the military when I joined... fI was] told...that only whores and lesbians joined . . [When] I started .. rampant sexual harassment. ..and sexual tension... [laughter].... Now I come to an organization of civil- ians [with] no sexual harassment, not even a

hint of it... There is a comfort level where there is no sexual tension. "

-Practitioner

"The biggest... issue is... communication. What I might be saying to my male counterpart might not be what he is understanding at all and vice versa. "

-Practitioner

Men mentioned sexuality in terms of its relationship to age, mentoring, competition, and comfort in working with women:

"There is.. .a kind of sexual tension... [Being] viewed as harmless in a male-female relationship...eases the tension, particularly when the women are younger and they expect me to exer- cise leadership in their careers. "

-Practitioner

"The tension Ifeel is with the women who want to get ahead. Usually...MP.A.s...they have com- plained... that I don't work as hard being their mentor and preparing them to move on to other jobs as I do to young men.... "

-Practitioner

'Men compete in a meeting with women. There is an animalistic sexual dynamic to this that we may not want to acknowledge.... Men.. .go after the airtime at the expense of.. women. "


One man stated that he was intrigued with one woman's questioning him about whether he favored working with women from a managerial point of view or because of a sense of real or potential affection. His response:

"That conversation [provoked me to think] .. Am I more comfortable doing business with a woman because I have a sense ofpower or supe- riority, whether it's there or a perception of that, or is there...a general attraction to the opposite sex that makes me comfortable in that kind of social relationship. "

-Administrator

These comments support the belief that managing sexuality and gender is a necessary component of organizational membership (Hearn, Sheppard, Tancred-Sheriff, and Burrell, 1988; Parkin, 1993) particularly in organizations that value equity and work-life diversity.6




Discrimination

The issue of discrimination focuses on the lack of objectivity in organizations. It encompasses concerns and disputes over objectivity and impartiality and, in this context, the use of different standards to judge the qualifications of men and women. The following stories reveal women's perceptions of the discrimination they have encountered. The first two present the experience that women are required to meet a higher measure than men who are vying for the same position.

" When you [say] 'We only hire minorities and women who are qualified, [it] says to me that...all white males are qualified, but... women and minorities have to be examined more care- fully; and the test becomes higher, and the differences become accentuated and [we] are devalued.... This question of qualifications... hits us hard because we.. .fight these barriers... every day."


"When I was hired...I was assured, 'We want you to know that we didn't selectyou because you were a woman but because you were qualified. We didn't have to hire a woman this time, and we hired you anyhow.' [Laughter]. Still, everyday.., there was always that question.. .Did she get hired because she was a woman or... the best qualfiedfor the job?"


Another woman addresses the issue of different standards by pointing to men's jokes:

"Where I work there is a lot of. joking, where the guys...say...'Hey, they must have lowered the standards. They got you in here!' Women don't joke like that...."

-Administrator

Other women believed that their encounters with discrimination could be attributed to the "comfort factor," that is, the recognition that many men are more comfortable with other men.

"I want to be accepted...in terms of my ability to perform, but I am [not accepted] into the social climate of the organization. I'm not one of the boys.

-Practitioner

Each of these responses reflects that acceptance into an organization's social climate is important to women and that gender can interfere with women getting men's "nod

of approval." Men who discussed the lack of objectivity related to

gender reported experiencing the application of different standards based on gender, experiences with perceived discrimination, and their interest in affirmative action. An example of discrimination was offered in the following comment related to confounding hiring standards and gender.

"I .. remember being called to the dean's office and being told.. .I could get a faculty line if I could hire a woman... .I [went] back to the.. .all- male department, and [said], 'We have to work this out because we are not going to bring someone in here just because she is a woman. We are going to have standards.' Then I remember at the end of the process hiring the first woman [who] was the best candidate of people who applied. And suddenly there was the topic of whether the pool was adequate. "


Another gender difference was the men's use of game language to describe the process of judging qualifications and the selection of men and women differently.

"I [have] realized that [the need to hire women] as not a topic... to be discussed openly and ratio- nally. This was going to be a kind of game that was played. "


'My wife is a faculty member...[who] can't get promoted. The question of why I could get promoted with no questions, with probably less credentials... and she [with] more credentials... can't get promoted, bothers me.... In that sense, I think the academic world is much harder. The glass ceiling is much more difficult to break. "


Men also expressed awareness and concern with less obvious forms of discrimination against women, that is, household and family responsibilities, mentoring practice, and expectations regarding career transition and progression.

"[Through several military and civilian] careers... I have... observed a... lot of insensitivity and harassment, and a lot of discrimination in a subtle way, which is the most difficult thing to deal with. " -Administrator and organizational consultant

"[With] husband and wife professionals.. on the




surface you have two on-par managers, but usually the woman retains the responsibilities for the dirty socks, the kids, and all those worries where... the husband... continues with his daily activity."

-Administrator

"Its necessary to construct environments [for] mentoring...It's harder for males to do that with young women professionals, [but since they are] half ..[of those] coming out of the MPA schools... we have to change the way we do men- to ring."

-Administrator

"Once I could do the tasks then I was invited to do problem solving... .As a male in a male-dominated organization, it was expected that I would make that progression. But... [a woman] has to knock on that door, and ... raise their level of understanding and appreciation... "

-Practitioner

Trust

The issue of trust involves a lack of trust between men and women and risk aversion in talking about gender in organizations. As noted earlier, women tended to link trust and sexuality; that is, they believe that sexuality, as well as potential threats of sexual harassment, affects trust and bonding within an organization.

"Bonding is slower between men and women, especially when there's not the sexual tension there .... Because [of this], it can take a long time to get trust. "

-Practitioner

Men's discussions about trust included concerns of confidence, the intertwining of trust and power, and the enforcement of their distrust of women by creating unwritten rules. It was the academicians who most clearly voiced the connections. Listen to this story:

"This was a group of men talking about hiring a female dean and the question was not about competence or qualifications or background. It was about whether she could be trusted... would we be comfortable telling her our fears about our ]obs, our positions, without worrying about who she would talk to... [These] people... wanted bonds... they weren't willing to bring women into that group where they might bring a male in and subject him to... male rituals of trust.... They

couldn't really trust a woman to behave in ways that they would be comfortable with.. .so they were...in this dilemma.... They knew it was sex- ist, they knew it was the wrong attitude, but they really weren't willing to make the commit- ment to expose themselves more just to trusting someone who they couldn't understand....Because she was female, she would not understand the rules unless they were laid on the table. And if they were laid on the table, we all would be embarrassed about having those rules. "


The interconnection of power and trust can also be seen in the following example, noting the particular fear of aggressive women.

"The aggressiveness that men show is understood as a game.... There is going to be a point at which...you can expose your throat and the dom- inant male won't bite your head off But there is no extension of that [understanding! to women. The perception is that we don't know... if we become vulnerable to this person, whether [she] will understand not to bite our neck. "


The thread that runs through each of these assertions is the risk, distrust, avoidance, and fear that some men experience with women and the use of unwritten rules to justify their actions.

Communication

Communication concerns the importance of listening and the need to understand and to be sensitive to others' different perspectives. Concern over communication centered on the importance of listening and understanding. Most comments highlighted the women's sense of dysfunctional communication between men and women in their organizations. Several women specifically recounted their own frustrations with men interrupting when they (women) were speaking.

"I'm constantly interrupted at faculty meetings. I can say something and its totally ignored, and the next minute somebody else will say it and its a great idea that never gets attributed back to me.... I often.... have to say, "I'm sorry, I'm not fin- ished yet. " I perceive that as meaning that I'm pretty much irrelevant...a marginal part of the department. "7

University professor

While some women firmly believe that miscommuni- cation and lack of understanding creates big issues in organizations, one woman put a positive spin on how




working together as a team had strengthened understanding in her organization.

"[The men and I] have developed into a team... they understand what I'm about and what my perspectives are. Now I have cohorts... I can talk the same language with. "

-Division chief, fire department

In the focus groups, communication was either not an important issue for the men, or they were unaware of communication problems related to gender. Only one man in each group directly brought up the importance of men and women listening to each other. One stated that listening to a female colleague had helped him to understand his behavior. He said,

"She is one of the most cautious people I've ever seen. But I'm trying to understand that she's in an environment where she is very vulnerable... so she needs to be cautious. "


Another simply stated his belief that men's and women's understanding of each other depends on recog- nizing their different perceptions. However, in the follow-up interviews, several men stated that candid and open discussions were needed, particularly about how sexuality affects work relationships.

Shared experience

The area of shared experience draws on the common experiences that women expressed in their work lives. The majority of women were notably aware of common, everyday patterns of distancing and avoidance in their organizations. Some described their shared sense of isolation and invisibility.

"I identified with what the other women were saying.... that we'll say something and it'll be invisible. People will just go right past what we've said, unless we say it again."


Others reported having been derided, belittled, excluded, and ignored by men, and they voiced their fear that talking about feelings of transparency or of being ignored would jeopardize their organizational relationships with men. The women's general belief was that each of these common prejudicial behaviors occurred because they were women.

Some saw the personal as well as the work side of the issue. They talked of being "programmed" to be a house- wife, to take care of and put men first, and they also described their need to understand how to compete with men. They vocalized differences in male and female

thinking and their difficulties integrating home and family life, being the sole woman in management, and working in a male-dominated world.

Most women noted sharing the experiences of other women. As one said,

"There are some things... we can generalize about...[as each] woman around this table talked about her experience the other women nodded their heads ... To me that's saying, "I identify, I've had a similar experience. And that's the basis for generalizing about the experience. "


In the follow-up interviews, both men and women reported that they were struck by the amount and the intensity of the women's collective experience, and most women focused on how reaffirming and energizing it had been to listen to and share other women's experiences.

Discussion and Implications This exploratory study authenticated the importance

of explicitly attending to social and gender dynamics in modern bureaucracy. The analysis of the focus groups and in depth interviews with public administration professionals was informative, both in terms of the issues and themes that emerged and in terms of what they revealed about the ways individuals formulate their "lived experiences" in organizations with regard to gender. The data suggest that the current construction and enactment of gender inequality in public organizations is fundamental to men's and women's work experiences.

The stories that emerged merging from this research point to several socializing processes that significantly influence gender behavior and relations at work.8 They suggest that:

* interactions of men and women based on exclu- sions, alliances, sexuality, distrust, or relations root- ed in organizational politics that perpetuate power differentials or control through domination (rather than through ability or authority);

* work arrangements deeply seeded in autonomy and separation;

* double standards of treatment, differential treatment, or lack of objectivity;

* unwritten rules for success associated with maleness and supported by men that prescribe or promote behavior based on divisions; and

* the display and suppression of emotion, particularly anger, are behaviors and practices that, in the workplace, overtly (and covertly) inhibit individual performance, produce inequality, and perpetuate the glass ceiling.

What is most substantial in these findings is the disso- nant relationship between gendered notions and organizational expectations and roles. Certainly, the actual




experience of discriminatory practices- struggles for recognition and reward, emotionality, and gender stereotypes-are at odds with organizational expectations and roles of neutrality, impersonalization, equality, merit, and professionalism. The considerable gender difference in particular issues-the difference between women's feelings of invisibility and isolation and men's thinking of women as highly visible and sexual, or the different selection standards used for men and women-indicates that inconsistent messages are being sent regarding profession- ally acceptable behavior, what constitutes a hostile work environment, and the important relation between work- life experiences and equal-opportunity outcomes.

The analysis shows that the following five statements are likely true.

* Men and women experience issues and interactions differently in the workplace.

* Men and women experience different gender issues in their workplace interactions.

* Men and women experience the same interactions differently in their workplace.

* These emerging issues connote different meanings for male and female public administration professionals.

* Men's and women's interactions in organizations affect systemic discrimination.

To make progress toward eliminating workplace inequality means acknowledging workers' need to talk about what is going on in organizations; moreover, the process of learning and sharing our perceptions (particularly how one is perceived by the opposite sex), emotions, and feelings is critical to understanding the core of what happens in work relationships. According to the participants in this study, discussions regarding eight specific issues would result in a better understanding of how gender influences work-life:9

* how women's place in the workforce, their economic status, and the increased competition affects men and women

* the nuances of how small things shape our perspectives on gender experiences in the workplace (for example, how both men and women perceive remarks and are confronted with innuendo)

* how cultural values and overt practices can lead to inequality, harassment, and discrimination (whether it is based on sex, age, race, or physical ability)

* men's "comfort factor" (or lack of) with women'0 * the "specific, routine acts that people find difficult

to interpret"1" (such as hearing women say that being interrupted makes them feel powerless) and the deeper issues such as sexuality, race, and men's anger and how these issues affect perceptions, workplace security, and work relationships

* the difference between perceptions that one has and real observations that other persons make of the same situation

* people's rights in the workplace, making judgments

solely on ability, and "having enough security in the workplace to not...worry about a complaint every five minutes by a co-worker"

* the need for supervisors to be conscious of appear- ances, to be careful of their remarks, and to not socialize with their subordinates12

The findings point to multiple, interrelated explanations for the limited success of equal employment opportunity outcomes. These professionals' comments poke holes in the assumption that bureaucratic organizations are rational and objective structures, based on imperson- ality and unemotionalism. The findings support explanations that workplace inequalities are maintained by group pressure (roles and stereotypes), intergroup relationships (comfort, trust, communication, and competition) (Schein, 1970; Asch, 1951; and Cox, 1993), and organizational culture and climate (use of hierarchical privilege and unwritten rules to maintain power and control, to preserve familiarity, and to apply different standards) (Moss Kanter, 1983; Morgan, 1986). The study upholds the idea that successful implementation of EEO policy is impeded by the heterogeneity of interests and experiences of organizational actors (for example, the belief in reverse discrimination and affirmative action backlash, the playing out of family roles in the workplace, non/association with privilege and power, sexual tension and innuendo), as well as nonsupportive attitudes (Brewer and deLeon, 1983) and non-acceptance (including discriminatory expectations, perceptions and internalization, and nonac- ceptance into social networks) and their resistance to the underlying policy value of diversityl3 (Kingdon, 1984). In sum, it is the relationship between social roles, interests, intergroup relationships, and organizational culture norms and values that set the conditions that perpetuate unequal employment opportunities and outcomes.

While the implications of this study's findings are extensive, two are particularly important to understanding the lived experiences of professionals and to steering equal-opportunity research. The first is how gender-dif- ferentiated socialization in childhood and early adulthood plays out in ways that lead men and women to have different workplace encounters and struggles. The results imply that the interplay among socialization messages, memories and perceptions, personal and family life, sen- sitivities to power and sexuality, communication and distrust between men and women, and the discrimination taking place in organizations are, in fact, known and experienced responses. They also reveal that, while women and men may work together, most do not talk or socialize with each other as professionals and equals. This suggests, at least in part, why current organizational culture continues to reflect antiquated attitudes toward gender.

The second is the implication for future empirical and interpretive studies on equal employment opportunity. By bringing groups representing different vantage points together, the Conversation Project and studies associated




with it advance a new method of inquiry14 and extend the work of earlier researchers on gender differences in public-sector careers by introducing different points of view into the research process. By promoting new ways of looking at the issue, increasing the number of perspectives, and addressing the concerns of varied groups, ana- lytic discourse facilitates opportunities to examine relevant facts and find shared concerns. The project provides an effective and proactive way to seriously exchange and present the different experiences of men and women, particularly the immediate experiences, concerns, and decision processes of those who dispute the gender inequality of women in organizations. This approach of gathering intersubjective, qualitative data from different perspectives makes it possible to raise alternate research questions and to enlarge the debate over equal opportunity as it relates to gender. Linking the evidence and methodologi- cal focus of earlier research to different perspectives and practices in organizations will expand context-, theory-, and practice-based knowledge of equal opportunity and will help researchers to understand how people develop attitudes and preferences on this topic, and the conditions and potential for change.15

While this pilot study's goal was to elucidate themes, not to test hypotheses, one guiding hypothesis coming from this research is that changing gender inequalities in the management of public organizations will require examination not only of those aspects of interpersonal relations that can develop and maintain the glass ceiling, but also those that can facilitate a more cooperative and constructive working environment. In addition, several other research questions come out of these findings:

1) How are unequal opportunities shaped by men's and women's perceptions about each other and by their beliefs about who should be rewarded?

2) How do men's and women's communications with each other in work environments maintain gender inequality?

3) How do men and women define and interpret gender inequality and the various aspects of the problem?16

4) What is the relationship between the various definitions held by different men and women?17 How do these definitions perpetuate unequal work-life relations? What is the process by which these definitions develop and change?

5) How do men's and women's different interpretations of emotional expression (for example, anger or insecurity) influence their action and behavior toward each other?18

6) What social roles, norms, values, and goals set the conditions that perpetuate the glass ceiling?

Clearly, as this project develops, future conversations will need to focus on ways to further our understanding of these particular issues.

Conclusion This article is organized around the key themes that

describe the impact of gender on the work-life relations of 23 male and female public administration practitioners and academicians teaching and publishing in the field. This study not only found that many of the themes reflected in the literature were voiced (men see women as emotional, women feel ignored and have a difficult time making their opinions heard, men resent women with less experience or qualifications getting promoted above them), but also uncovered a number of unexpected themes.

Other themes were exposed, such as easily discernible gender issues (acknowledgment of sex roles, stereotypes, and sexuality in organizations, and women's shared experiences) and personal power and influence issues (different interpretations of emotional displays, and men's feelings of competitiveness, and lack of trust with women).

By listening to the men as well as the women, the study found a great deal of coherence and agreement in the responses. For instance, both men and women expressed frustration with visible and invisible signs of bias, discrimination, and inequality. Likewise, both gen- ders stressed the need for listening; for attending to women's perspectives; for understanding different perspectives based on age, gender, and race; and for more communication on work-life relations. The study also was able to provide detailed explanations of why men are uncomfortable choosing a woman as a superior (for instance, a woman dean), and why women fear talking about their experiences or displaying emotion in front of men.19 The degree to which childhood and early adulthood socialization related to gender remains conscious and plays out in later workplace experiences, and the participants' awareness of their part in influencing workplace conditions and work experiences is also clearly shown.

A new topic that emerged from this research was men's unstated rules that can't be made public because they would be embarrassing; for example, women may not know when or how to gain and effectively use power. Sex roles and sexual tension, however, make it difficult for men to expose anxieties to women, less willing to provide mentoring experiences to women, and uncomfortable contending with women. What is actually new in these findings depends on the parallel questioning of the men (the women's themes are well established in the literature). The findings suggest that although the work-life experiences of men and women are likely to be character- ized by serious discrepancy,20 the surprise is not the dis- agreements, not the "he says, she says" of opposing viewpoints or court suits, but the amount of corroboration and compatibility of the men's and women's views.21

The concrete management strategies and recommen- dations that result from this analysis and a set of suggestions for creating a more equal, and calmer, workforce are found in Figure 2. Managers and administrators must




Figure 2 Management Strategies to Improve Work-life Relations

Short-range strategies: * Acknowledge that there are problem behaviors that thwart equal-opportunity efforts. * Make conscious efforts to improve communication and social relationships within organizations; encourage cross-unit/orga-

nization conversations and training regarding worklife issues and relationships. * Speak up and confront disrespectful, derisive, and unprofessional attitudes and behaviors. * Structure meetings to ensure that everyone is heard, and acknowledge contributions, regardless of gender. * Include women in top-level decision making and promote them into policy roles. * Ensure equity in assignments, internships, and mentoring opportunities. * Incorporate both sexes into socialization and development networks. * Emphasize, support, and reward a collegial environment. * Emphasize interpersonal well-being, productivity, and satisfaction in the workplace. * Add communication skills, cooperative behavior, and teamwork to performance evaluations. * Have gender-diverse training, teamwork, and writing of training manuals.

Long-range strategies: * Address gender differences and adult learning differences in training. * Establish focus groups as part of an OD program to bring issues and problems to the surface. * Have focused recruitment to hire the opposite sex into gender-dominated positions. * Have a support system in place, particularly for new hires. * Establish organizational mentoring with opposite- and same-sex mentors. * Beginning in employee orientation, send consistent messages regarding equal opportunity.

acknowledge that problem behaviors that thwart equal- opportunity efforts exist in the workplace; improved communication, social relations, and a collegial environment; and encourage cross-unit/organization dialogue and training regarding work-life issues. Other short- range strategies include structuring meetings to engage all participants' viewpoints; promoting women to top-level policy roles; ensuring equity in work assignments and opportunities; incorporating both sexes into socialization and development networks; emphasizing interpersonal productivity, cooperation, and teamwork in performance evaluations; and promoting gender-diverse training and collaboration. Long-range organizational development plans should continue to address gender differences in training; establish focus groups to bring issues and problems to the surface; focus recruitment to hire the opposite sex into gender-dominated positions; have a support system in place, particularly for new hires; establish organizational mentoring with opposite- and same-sex mentors; and use consistent messages regarding equal opportunity.

Public administration graduate programs should more actively strive to strengthen equal-opportunity learning environments by exposing students to the way gender affects their work-lives and by better preparing students to face and overcome gender-based inequalities in organizations. Programs will be strengthened by attending to issues that affect both men and women (nonsupportive attitudes; increased competitiveness and struggles for recognition and reward; displaying or suppressing emotion, particularly anger; racial and cultural values; and early socialization messages related to gender and the playing out of family roles at work), adopting organized

mentoring programs, and providing avenues to encourage male and female students to learn more about each other (and about each other's "rules") and to talk and socialize with each other as professionals and equals. Specific program and classroom strategies are described in Figures 3 and 4.

Courses dealing with organizational theory and behavior should include discussion about: (1) gender inequality in public organizations (the problem, the prevalence of discriminatory practices, and its significance); (2) resistance to diversity, reverse discrimination, and affirmative action backlash; and (3) the links between work relationships, work-life experiences, and EEO opportunities and outcomes. Students should also learn to identify signs of discrimination and understand the experiences and issues

Figure 3 Program Strategies to Prepare Public Administration Graduates

* Integrate the topic of gender inequality into the curriculum.

* Provide mentoring programs that foster cross-sex mentoring experiences to female students and help them learn how to "get to the table" and successfully contend with men.

* Attend to issues that can affect both men and women. * Adopt organized mentoring programs. * Provide avenues to encourage male and female students

to learn more about each other, to talk and socialize with each other as professionals and equals.




Figure 4 Gender-Related Subjects to be Covered in Public Administration Curriculum

Organizational theory and behavior: * Gender inequality in public organizations (what is the problem, the prevalence of discriminatory practices, and their signifi-

cance) * Resistance to diversity, reverse discrimination, and affirmative action backlash * Signs of discrimination and experiences and issues specifically related to women * The dissonance between gender stereotypes, sex roles, and organizational expectations for rational, objective, meritorious,

and professional action * Links between work relationships, work-life experiences, and EEO opportunities and outcomes

Personnel /human resources administration: * Facts about women's economic status and their need to work * Issues that can most affect work performance, lead to inequality, and perpetuate systemic discrimination (different selection

standards; intergroup relationships and exclusion from social networks, particularly supervisor/subordinate socialization; sexual tension and harassment; organizational culture norms and values; the playing out of family roles in the workplace, and insufficient mentoring opportunities)

* Strategies for overcoming personal patterns and attitudes of resistance

Management communications: * Inappropriate and dysfunctional communication patterns * How self-perceptions can differ from those of others * How to base judgments on ability rather than emotion

specifically related to women (particularly their feelings of invisibility and isolation) and the dissonance between gender stereotypes, bias, and unstated rules and organizational expectations for rational, objective, meritorious, and professional action. Personnel and human resource administration classes should: (1) cover facts about women's economic status and their need to work, issues that can affect work performance, lead to inequality, and perpetuate systemic discrimination (for example, different selection standards; intergroup relationships and exclusion from social networks, particularly supervisor/subordinate socialization; sexual tension and harassment; masculine organizational culture norms; the playing out of family roles in the workplace, and insufficient mentoring opportunities); and (2) offer strategies for overcoming personal patterns and attitudes of resistance. Fitting subjects for management communications courses include: (1) explaining how inappropriate and dysfunctional communication patterns, such as speech interruptions and sexual or intimidating innuendo, shape gender experiences in the workplace; and (2) giving students opportunities to understand how self-perceptions can differ from those of others, and to practice basing judgments on ability rather than emotion.

Students will also benefit from teachers who (1) provide consistent messages regarding inappropriate and unacceptable behavior, hostile work environments (not allowing men to dominate classroom discussions and commenting on any resistance in working with women as equals), and concern for people's rights in the workplace; and (2) stress the importance of learning how perceptions affect work-life relationships and understanding different perspectives based on gender, age, and race. Simulations

and team-based exercises that demonstrate how internal- ized perceptions, group pressure, interpersonal interactions, intergroup relationships, and organizational climate affect and contribute to workplace inequality will also be helpful.

Research based on this communication model gives voice to and builds understanding of the impact of gender and work relationships on action in organizations. The Conversation Project is a powerful tool that can help decision makers meet the challenges of fully valuing workforce diversity and experience and improving fairness in the workplace. It is intended to encourage public administrators to refocus on the thoughts and experiences of people working in the top levels of America's public organizations, and to view common practices in organizations through a larger lens. Despite the literature's focus on gender bias and inequality within organizations,20 we are only beginning to know about the concrete work relations between men and women and the issues arising from their experiences that continue to produce unequal employment-opportunity outcomes for women. While analyses of macro-level data and the perceptions of the individuals described here not only support that both women's and men's experiences often reflect continuing inequity in the reality of their work lives, these findings also suggest that learning about each other's experiences is a genuine and important need for both men and women. Effectively ending sex segregation and discrimination in public organizations is obviously neither just a matter of time nor having "enough" women in the pipeline. Ulti- mately, eliminating practices that produce unequal opportunities and broadening the basis for this policy reform will require, among other actions, that men and




women learn more about each other and how their interactions affect the inequity in their work-lives, and that we overcome our patterns and attitudes of resistance.

Mary M. Hale is co-founder and President of Choices International, Inc., in San Antonio, Texas. She has an

active background in public administration education, public affairs, and organization development. She consults with professionals and organizations, is a frequent confer- ence presenter, and her work appears in a number of schol- arly journals and books. She is published in the fields of public administration, health care, and women in politics.

Acknowledgement

The author gratefully acknowledges the helpful comments of Cassandra Dickson and anonymous reviewers.

Notes

This project was planned after spending considerable time getting to know and listening to the concerns of current managers and administrators in both public- and private- sector organizations that want to eliminate glass ceilings.

2. The participants included 12 women and 1 1 men. All participants were informed in advance that they would be audio-recorded during the study.

3. The women who participated in the first focus group were assistant and associate professors (five assistant professors and one associate professor); the men were associate and full professors (five associate professors and one full professor). In the second focus group, the women were at mid- management levels (one occupational health staff nurse, three administrative officers, and two research associate/consultants); the men were at the mid- and executive- level positions (one director of a regional administrative support center, one general manager, one management analyst, one city manager, and one state director of a small agency). No attempt was made to ensure represen- tation of either professional group.

4. Five questions addressed their participation and experience in the focus group, two inquired about the significance or impact of the focus group, two questioned what topics were important, three asked for potential uses or suggestions for future focus groups, and one requested specific stories related to the topic. None of the questions explicitly dealt with gender. Each interview lasted approximately 40 minutes. Comments were recorded and transcribed.

5. According to Erik Erickson, identity is a process "by which the individual judges himself in the light of what he perceives to be the way in which others judge him" (1968, 22).

6. In the follow-up interviews, men talked about conflicts between sexual needs and social constrictions in the workplace and the need to attend to generational differences between men and women working in management. Some men expressed surprise about the women's experiences. One man remarked that he had never talked about this issue in a mixed group and wondered if it had been inten- tionally avoided or had just never arisen. Some men reported that they were aware of "dancing around the fringes" of sexual issues or their own experiences with discrimination.

7. One male professor did express that, like the women, he had also had the experience of his ideas being negated. He said, "I say something and 20 minutes later someone will

say, 'Well, actually, I have this idea and it's a great idea.' And I say, 'No, no...that's my idea."'

8. This builds on Albert Mills and Peta Tancred's work, Gendering OrganizationalAnalysis (1992).

9. These suggestions come from participants' responses to two questions: What topics or issues they considered most important to talk about and which were most important in removing the barrier(s) to equal opportunity. Women's and men's answers to the first question were very different; their answers to the second question were quite similar.

10. There was the most discussion on this point. The women basically believed men have "endemic resistance" to hiring women in the top tier of management because they are not comfortable with women, do not value women, or because women are viewed as an anomaly and men don't understand how to deal with them in the workplace. As one woman said, "Men need to be able to be comfortable expressing their concerns and their fears, and the areas they feel uncomfortable about. And they need to be comfortable sharing what it is about working with women.. .what their discomfort is about, and to get over it...to get it out in a safe environment... [Unfortunately] looking at this politically, I just don't see that happening."

11. See Benokraitis (1995) for a discussion of these "microinequalities."

12. One male administrator expressed the importance of supervisor objectivity this way: "I don't buy the idea that I'm friendly with this person after work, but that doesn't affect my objectivity. I believe it does... .Just the fact that the subordinate has more access to that supervisor outside of work doesn't mean that they are asking for special treatment, but.. .the work environment will come up in some discussion. Then, there's much less opportunity for them to fail."

13. A current term for this is "organizational masculinities." See Roberts (1998).

14. The Conversation Project's pilot study shows that it does facilitate learning about each other's perceptions and experiences and it helps us to understand those strategies that can improve work-life relations and expedite equal opportunity. (This is true, I believe, even though the dynamics generated in focus groups and interviews may not totally overcome people's preference to give socially desirable responses.) Its primary use is to help people in organizations become aware of what influence women and men have on the conditions of their workplace and their work




experiences. The ongoing nature of the Conversations Project allows for triangulating multiple sources of data to corroborate, elaborate, and illuminate the research. It can be implemented in a variety of settings and used in very practical ways. Opportunities exist for holding delibera- tive focus groups within and across different types of organizations (for example, government, nonprofit, and private sector) and with military and civilian personnel. The project can be used with administrative officers and line managers or other working groups in several ways. It can operate as a training program (along with diversity-management training) to focus awareness on the beliefs, norms, values, interpretations, and relationships underlying particular organizational environments; or it can be employed as a tool to assess existing organizational culture, evaluate and improve existing antidiscrimination programs and systems, develop and administrator climate surveys, or identify training and development needs. It can also be adopted as a problem-solving strategy to counteract what people perceive as problems, recognize conflicts, and notice ways to prevent prospective internal crisis. It can be utilized in face-to-face groups (either mixed or single- sex) or with groupware in electronic forums. The Conver- sation Project gives voice to and builds understanding about the impact of gender and work relationships on action in organizations. It is a powerful tool that can help decision makers meet the challenges of fully valuing workforce diversity and experience and improving fairness in

the workplace. 15. See also Lott and Maluso (1995), March and Olsen

(1989), Heclo (1993), Sabatier (1998), Chen (1990), and Weiss (1995).

16. As Bogdan and Taylor (I 975) note, this question can be directed toward individual definitions or perspectives and group definitions or shared perspectives and can lead to a typology of subjects based on how they view their work- life environments.

17. As Bogdan and Taylor (1975) note, this allows examination of the basis of consensus or conflict in a setting.

18. This assumes a phenomenological perspective. 19. See the Department of Labor's 1995 investigation. 20. This study substantiates three points raised by Hearn,

Sheppard, Tancred-Sheriff, and Burrell (1988): (1) that the work reality women experience differs from that of men; (2) that "women and men experience organizational life differently, whether compared within or between status levels" (141); and (3) that gender and management of sexuality is an essential part of "the construction and enactment of organizational power" (140).

21. This topic is well covered in the work by Cheng (1996); Daley (1996); Mani (1995); Naff (1994); Powell and But- terfield (1994); U.S. Office of Personnel Management (1994); Guy (1994, 1992); Newman (1993); U.S. Merit System Protection Board (1992); Kelly et al. (1991); U.S. Department of Labor (1991); Hale and Kelly (1989); and Lewis (1986).

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He Says, She Says: Gender and Worklife

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