THE CONSISTENT TRAITS OF DIVERSE IMMIGRANT WOMEN

AS U. S. LEADERS

A Dissertation Presented in Partial Fulfillment of the

Requirements for the Degree of

Doctor of Management

By

Eli Safayan Hudspeth

Colorado Technical University

April 2015

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Committee

Kennedy Maranga, PhD, Chair

Rae Denise Madison, DM, Committee Member

Jaime Sampayo, DM, Committee Member

April 2015

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© Eli Safayan Hudspeth, 2015

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Abstract

The purpose of this phenomenological study was to explore the lived experiences of

diverse immigrant women leaders to identify the consistent traits among them. Purposive

sampling was used to select study participants. Eleven women who immigrated to the

United States from different continents were interviewed. Interviews were audio-recorded

and MAXQDA software was used for data analysis. The major themes of integration and

independence, and trait nouns including motivation, pride, confidence and positive

outlook emerged from the data. Key findings established consistency in the traits of study

participants, however participants’ responses revealed that leadership traits should be

considered alongside culture and cultural influences. The study found that underlying

assumptions and expectations of participants’ cultures resonated with study participants,

including for those who had lived in the United States 34 or more years. As the United

States continues to be the number one destination for the world’s immigrants, this study’s

findings give voice to future generations of immigrant women while they also encourage

U. S. businesses to embrace the talent and competitive edge that immigrant women offer.

Suggestions for future research could focus on a larger, national sample of diverse

immigrant women leaders. Limitation of study participants based on age at immigration,

years of leadership experience or specific industry expertise could be explored. Given the

influence of culture on participants, research comparing immigrant women from

collectivist versus individualistic cultures could be informative.

Key Words: immigrant women, leaders, traits

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Dedication

I dedicate this dissertation to my mother and the many other immigrant women who left

their home countries because they hoped their children would have better lives in the

United States.

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Acknowledgements

There have been many times in my life that I have thought I am the luckiest girl in

the world. I am thankful to my parents for instilling that kind of positive spirit in me from

when I was a very young girl. It never occurred to me that there were things that I could

not do.

I have been fortunate to experience life as an Iranian American. As my mother

told me when I was a young child, take the good from both and leave the bad. I am

therefore thankful to the countries of Iran and the United States: the prior for its rich

culture and history, and the latter for its openness and opportunities from which my

family has benefited.

I thank my husband, Gigot Hudspeth, for our fulfilling and meaningful life

together, and to our son, Arman, for being my greatest gift.

I am thankful to many other friends and family members who have supported me

and expressed their pride in my doctoral pursuit.

Finally, heartfelt thanks to my dissertation committee: my mentor, Dr. Kennedy

Maranga, and his unwavering confidence in my work which inspired me every day; and

my committee members, Dr. Rae Denise Madison and Dr. Jaime Sampayo, who were

able to balance the rigor of the dissertation process with laughter.

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Table of Contents

Acknowledgements ............................................................................................. 4

Table of Contents ................................................................................................ 5

List of Tables ...................................................................................................... 9

List of Figures ................................................................................................... 10

Chapter One .......................................................................................................... 11

Background ....................................................................................................... 12

Problem Statement ............................................................................................ 13

Purpose Statement ............................................................................................. 15

Research Questions ........................................................................................... 15

Propositions....................................................................................................... 16

Theoretical Framework ..................................................................................... 16

Assumptions/Biases .......................................................................................... 18

Significance of the Study .................................................................................. 19

Delimitations ..................................................................................................... 20

Limitations ........................................................................................................ 20

Definition of Terms........................................................................................... 21

General Overview of the Research Design ....................................................... 23

Summary of Chapter One ................................................................................. 23

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Organization of Dissertation ............................................................................. 24

Chapter Two.......................................................................................................... 25

History of Women in the Workforce ................................................................ 25

Fortune 500 Minority Leaders .......................................................................... 33

Fortune 500 Women Leaders ........................................................................... 34

Women Immigrants .......................................................................................... 36

Fortune 500 Minority Women Leaders ............................................................ 37

Barriers for Fortune 500 Minority Women Leaders......................................... 39

The Impact of Immigrants’ Small Businesses on the U. S. Economy .............. 41

Skills of Leaders ............................................................................................... 47

Diversity Management ...................................................................................... 53

Women as Leaders ............................................................................................ 58

Fulfilling the American Dream ......................................................................... 62

Summary of Chapter Two ................................................................................. 67

Chapter Three........................................................................................................ 69

Research Tradition ............................................................................................ 69

Research Questions ........................................................................................... 71

Research Design................................................................................................ 71

Population and Sample ................................................................................. 71

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Sampling Procedure ...................................................................................... 73

Instrumentation ............................................................................................. 74

Validity and Reliability ................................................................................. 76

Data Collection ................................................................................................. 78

Data Analysis .................................................................................................... 80

Summary of Chapter Three ............................................................................... 82

Chapter Four ......................................................................................................... 84

Participant Demographics ................................................................................. 84

Presentation of Data .......................................................................................... 86

Presentation and Discussion of Findings .......................................................... 87

Integration ..................................................................................................... 87

Independence .............................................................................................. 100

Summary of Chapter Four .............................................................................. 115

Chapter Five ........................................................................................................ 119

Findings and Conclusions ............................................................................... 119

Limitations of the Study.................................................................................. 127

Implications for Practice ................................................................................. 128

Implications of Study and Recommendations for Future Research................ 129

Reflections ...................................................................................................... 130

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Conclusion ...................................................................................................... 131

References ........................................................................................................... 135

APPENDIX A U. S. WOMEN’S RIGHTS’ AND WORK EFFORTS .............. 160

APPENDIX B INTERVIEW PROTOCOL ........................................................ 161

APPENDIX C INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS .................................................. 163

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List of Tables

Table 1. Study Data Themes and Their Frequency ...............................................86

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List of Figures

Figure 1. Fortune 500 Women CEOs and Board Members .................................35

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CHAPTER ONE

The number of U. S. women workers continues to rise. According to the U. S.

Department of Labor (DOL, 2013), in 2011, working women accounted for 58.1% of the

labor force. The number of women as a percentage of the U. S. immigrant population also

continues to rise. By 2010, for every 100 women immigrants, there were 96 men

immigrants (Kelley & Wolgin, 2012).

Nonetheless, in August 2014, there were 24 female CEOs on the Fortune 500 list

(“Women CEOs,” 2014), a 4.8% representation of the 500 CEOs and the largest to date.

As Hansen (2009) noted, “If the CEOs of the Fortune 500 reflected the composition of

the workforce, 55 would be Black, 70 would be Hispanic, 24 would be Asian and 233

would be women” (para. 2). As the representation of female Fortune 500 CEOs indicates,

gender biases still exist at leadership levels in some U. S. businesses even though the

number of working women exceeds the number of working men (DOL, 2013). Existing

biases could explain, in part, the fact that the number of minority women-owned

businesses grew “four times faster than all United States firms” (Smith-Hunter, 2006, p.

17). Existing gender biases are but one challenge for immigrant women who must also

navigate business environments with varying attitudes toward immigrants.

The purpose of this phenomenological study was an exploration of the lived

experiences of diverse immigrant women, to identify consistent traits that helped the

women become leaders in the United States. Findings support the rationale that

immigrant women must be given opportunities to engage more productively in the U. S.

workforce, benefiting not only all immigrant women and businesses but also the U. S.

economy.

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Chapter One will present a background for the context of the study which shapes

the study’s significance. The background will follow with problem and purpose

statements, research questions, propositions, and a theoretical framework. The

researcher’s assumptions and biases will be identified. Delimitations that represent the

boundaries of the study and study limitations will be acknowledged. Terms used

throughout the study will be defined. The Definition of Terms will be followed by a

general overview of the study’s research design. Chapter One will conclude with a

chapter summary and dissertation organization statements.

Background

The researcher’s life as the child of immigrants was the motivation for the study.

Specifically, the researcher grew up around strong immigrant women who were

resourceful in creating their new lives in the United States. Given the researcher’s

doctoral focus on global leadership, interest in the phenomenon of immigrant women

evolved into a study of the traits that helped the women assume leadership roles in the

United States.

In 1963, U. S. President John F. Kennedy argued that the national origins system

for determining immigrants’ entrance to the United States was neither logical nor

rational: “It neither satisfies a national need nor accomplishes an international purpose. In

an age of interdependence among nations, such a system is an anachronism for it

discriminates among applicants for admission into the United States on the basis of the

accident of birth” (Kennedy as cited in Woolley & Peters, 2014, para. 3).

The Hart-Celler Immigration and Nationality Act led to a new immigration

system whereby immigrants were admitted regardless of race or nationality, primarily for

13

purposes of family reunification and secondarily for job skills and refugee status

(Wolgin, 2011). With the new immigration system, a specific number of immigrants were

admitted annually and no more than 10% of immigrants were allowed from any one

country (Kennedy, 1966).

Immigration flows resulted in changes to U. S. population demographics and

consequently, to the U. S. workforce. Immigrant women were motivated to work to help

their families succeed. According to the U. S. census, 70% of Chinese women in San

Francisco worked as prostitutes in 1879 (Kum as cited in Batman, 2011). However, the

Chinese did not necessarily see prostitutes as women of ill repute but rather as daughters

who complied with family wishes (Cheng Hirata, 1979) to earn money.

Immigrant women sometimes work multiple jobs such as house-cleaning and

baby-sitting. They accept jobs that their spouses will not welcome because the spouses

are searching for jobs with higher status (Bui, 2004). As a result, immigrant women

sometimes earn more than their spouses do even though many immigrated as passive

followers of their spouses (Nag, 2005).

Immigrant women seem to persevere despite barriers and challenges. The purpose

of this phenomenological study was to explore the lived experiences of diverse immigrant

women. The researcher hoped to identify consistent traits that embodied the diverse

women, as they became leaders in the United States.

Problem Statement

After completion of an ethnographic study of Jewish immigrant women in the

United States, Cohen (2012) suggested that the opportunities for research related to

immigration, ethnicity and gender were numerous. Additional qualitative research could

14

be conducted with immigrant women of mixed ethnicities to explore various aspects of

their characteristics including those related to leadership (Cohen, 2012). Nwabah (2007)

suggested research comparing the leadership experiences of Nigerian women with those

of immigrant women of other ethnicities. Cohen also identified additional research of

women from different ethnic immigrant groups using a feminist theory lens and

analyzing the study thematically for informative data.

It was not known if a diverse group of immigrant women had consistent traits that

helped them become leaders in the United States. Previous studies relative to the

phenomenon of immigrant women’s traits had focused on specific ethnicities. This study

intended to discover if diverse immigrant women shared consistent traits that helped them

as they became leaders in the United States.

By 2000, nearly 50% of all international immigrants to the United States were

women (Nag, 2005; Foner, 2001). Tastsoglou and Preston (2005) noted that although

immigrant women had the highest education percentages, they also had the highest

unemployment rates. While only 13% of immigrant women in the United States worked

professionally, 32% of them had worked professionally before immigrating here (Kelley

& Wolgin, 2012). This indicates that the United States has not engaged immigrant

women to their fullest potential as productive U. S. workers.

An exploratory study of the traits of immigrant women from various ethnicities

would reveal what, if any, consistent traits embodied these women even when they faced

challenges. Findings from the study would inform other immigrant women about the

characteristics that would help them to prosper in the United States. Study findings would

also encourage U. S. organizations to expand opportunities to immigrant women.

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Purpose Statement

According to Kelley and Wolgin (2012), in 2010, 40% of all immigrant business

owners in the United States were immigrant women. Furthermore, 20% of all women

business owners were immigrant women (Kelley & Wolgin, 2012). The intent of this

phenomenological study was to explore the lived experiences of diverse immigrant

women to identify the consistent traits that helped the women become leaders in the

United States. The rationale for this study was to determine such consistent traits, to add

to the body of knowledge related to immigrant women’s challenges in assuming

leadership roles, to provide a voice for individuals underrepresented in the U. S.

workforce and to encourage U. S. businesses to expand opportunities to immigrant

women.

Research participants included immigrant women who had been U. S. residents

for at least 20 years and who had assumed lead, supervisor, or higher positions in their

industries. The phenomenological study included pre-designed questions and in-depth,

one-on-one interviews, conducted in English.

Phenomenological studies explore how individuals make meaning of their worlds

(Bryman & Bell, 2011) while semi-structured interviews using pre-designed questions

allow the researcher flexibility to ask follow-up, probing questions to clarify meaning

(Rubin & Rubin, 2012). One-on-one interviews permit clarification since the researcher

can restate a question or clarify its meaning (Bryman & Bell, 2011).

Research Questions

The purpose of this study was to identify the traits of diverse immigrant women

leaders in the United States. The research questions were:

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1) What resources have played a role in influencing diverse immigrant women to

become leaders?

2) To what extent are diverse immigrant women’s leadership traits consistent?

Propositions

The United States continues to be the number one destination for the world’s

immigrants (“US is Top,” 2012). In addition, the number of immigrant women to the

United States is exceeding the number of immigrant men (Kelley & Wolgin, 2012). At

the same time, the number of women as a percentage of the U. S. workforce population

continues to grow.

The study of immigrant women’s leadership traits highlights important, timely,

and relevant research in a growing and multicultural U. S. workforce population. The

increasing number of immigrant women can present opportunities for businesses.

Language and multicultural understanding to reach potential new markets, particularly in

an increasingly global economy, are but a couple of ways in which immigrant women can

bring competitive advantages to businesses. Study findings can influence corporate

diversity, cultural competency, and training initiatives.

Theoretical Framework

The research topic and the phenomenological approach to the study shaped the

lens through which this study was conducted. The theoretical framework for this study

focused on traits leadership theory, feminist theory, and immigration assimilation theory.

According to Kirkpatrick and Locke (1991), drive, the desire to lead, honesty/integrity,

self-confidence, cognitive ability, and knowledge of the business or industry, were traits

of individuals more likely to take actions to become successful leaders.

17

The study framed feminist theory from a global perspective while understanding

that the solidarity of all U. S. women workers was critical to giving voice to immigrant

women. Adapting is key in helping immigrants assimilate into the United States, a

country that “immigrants as a group are still more enthusiastic about… than the native

born” (Hanes, 2013, para. 9). Furthermore, Portes (1997) noted that immigration

assimilation theory had expanded to include “patterns of adaptation” (p. 814). Together,

the theories formed a stable framework from which the researcher explored the lived

experiences of immigrant women to identify the consistent traits that helped them

become leaders in the United States.

According to Johns and Moser (1989), studies of leadership concluded that

prediction of leadership based on personal traits was challenging. Leadership was

dynamic and based on situational and organizational influences (Johns & Moser, 1989).

More recently, however, Gnambs and Batinic (2013) found that the ability of leaders to

influence others with their opinions was mediated by personality traits. Leaders’

perceived competence in a position guided peers’ attitudes and behaviors but

“dispositional characteristics” (Gnambs & Batinic, 2013, p. 597) were also influential.

Furthermore, Derue, Nahrgang, Wellman, and Humphrey’s 2011 quantitative study found

that leader traits combined with leader behaviors helped to “explain a minimum of 31%

of the variance in leadership effectiveness criteria” (p. 7).

The topic of immigrant women leaders informed the researcher’s choice to

include feminist theory as part of the study’s theoretical framework. The evidence of

gender inequality and the study of women in the U. S. workforce as discussed in Chapter

Two, the Literature Review, helped guide this choice. While some feminine gender

18

stereotypes might reflect women as “physically weak and submissive” (Zeuschner, 2014,

p. 178), Chinese Taoist philosophy considers that women can be powerful yet not

aggressive, and creative yet not forceful, in making things happen (Zeuschner, 2014).

Pu (2011) noted the importance of addressing feminist theory from a global view.

Rather than approaching feminist theory with Euro-American-centric preconceptions, the

framework for the theory must “acknowledge differences and commonalities and

embrace solidarity without privileging certain types of feminism” (para. 2). Such

acknowledgement is critical given globalization and the challenges it presents

economically and politically (Pu, 2011) as well as demographically.

As immigrant women, study participants were identified by gender, and by race

and ethnicity. These intersecting identities informed the researcher’s choice to also

include immigration assimilation theory as part of the study’s theoretical framework.

Portes (1997) noted that immigration theory was based on studies of “particular migrant

groups” (p. 799) and why or how, for example, entrepreneurship was prevalent among

some first-generation immigrants.

Assumptions/Biases

According to Corbin and Strauss (2008), descriptive details that a researcher

chooses to highlight are subjective based on what the researcher considers important.

Furthermore, interpretations may be shaped by the researcher’s biases, values, and

personal background (Creswell, 2009). The researcher adhered to bracketing standards

that required putting aside beliefs about the phenomenon throughout the study (Hamill &

Sinclair, 2010). Bracketing demanded that the researcher be open-minded and not allow

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personal biases to influence research questions, data collection, and data analysis (Hamill

& Sinclair, 2010).

Significance of the Study

The number of women immigrating into the United States continues to grow.

According to Kelley and Wolgin (2012), more women began to immigrate into the

United States in the 1960s. Almost 50% of all international immigrants to the United

States were women by 2000 (Nag, 2005; Foner, 2001). By 2010, for every 100 women

immigrants, there were 96 men immigrants (Kelley & Wolgin, 2012).

The increasing number of immigrant women can present opportunities for U. S.

businesses. Organizations can create more inclusive workforces by developing policies to

recruit immigrant women. Language and multicultural understanding to reach potential

new markets, particularly in an increasingly global economy, are but a couple of ways in

which immigrant women can bring competitive advantages to businesses. In addition, as

businesses gain understanding about the leadership traits of immigrant women, they can

incorporate them into leadership training initiatives. Consequently, study findings can

influence corporate diversity, cultural competency, and training initiatives.

As more immigrant women enter the U. S. workforce in leadership positions, they

will serve as role models for future generations of immigrant women. In addition, Kelley

and Wolgin (2012) noted the increasing number of immigrant women business owners.

Policies that provide incentives and ease opportunities for immigrant women will

encourage more of them to start their own businesses. Therefore, this study will inform

U. S. business policies and practices.

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This study has positive change implications for immigrant women and for U. S.

businesses. Providing opportunities for immigrant women to reach their fullest potential

as productive workers strengthens not only the women but also U. S. businesses and the

U. S. economy. Therefore, U. S. policymakers could offer businesses incentives to recruit

and provide opportunities to immigrant women that inspire them and future immigrant

women to continue to perceive the U. S. as non-discriminatory and gender-free (Seifert,

1999) as they endeavor to fulfill their American Dreams.

Delimitations

As the child of immigrants, the researcher grew up surrounded by strong

immigrant women. Interest in the phenomenon of immigrant women grew as the

researcher became an adult and began pursuing professional opportunities. Given the

researcher’s doctoral focus on global leadership, interest in the phenomenon of immigrant

women evolved into a study of the traits that helped the women assume leadership roles

in the United States. Study participants were more likely to attain leadership roles if they

had immigrated to the United States legally, so only legal immigrants were interviewed

for the study. Finally, the researcher chose a phenomenological study approach since

such an approach provided opportunity to gather data directly from study participants’

stories of their lived experiences.

Limitations

One limitation of the study was its small sample size. Access, time, and financial

constraints limited the researcher’s opportunity to engage a larger sample population

outside of southern Colorado.

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Additional limitations occurred with one study participant because of language.

Although all study participants had lived in the United States for at least 20 years and

were English speakers, one study participant’s English speaking skills were somewhat

limited. It could be that the language of the participant’s home country may have been a

more effective means of communicating the emotion and depth of the participant’s lived

experience. The researcher asked probing questions as necessary to develop

understanding.

The researcher did not limit study participants based on age. Study participants

who immigrated to the United States when they were less than 20 years old recalled

primarily women in their families as leaders and role models. These study participants

had different lived experiences and ideas about women leaders than study participants

who immigrated to the United States as women 25 or more years old.

The researcher also did not limit study participants based on years of leadership

experience. Study participants with more years of leadership experience shared different

lived experiences than those who had been leaders for fewer years.

For purposes of this study, participants’ status as leaders did not take into

consideration the industry in which participants were working.

Definition of Terms

American. For purposes of this study, Americans refers to those living in the

United States.

Hart-Celler Immigration Act. In July 1963, President John F. Kennedy

recommended that Congress reform immigration policy and eliminate the national quota

system. Kennedy’s recommendation was signed into law by President Johnson in 1965

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with passage of the Hart-Celler Immigration Act. This Act supported new immigration

legislation based on equality of opportunity and “fair play for the people of all nations”

(Kennedy, 1966, p. 139). Until that time, the system allowed immigration based on the

national origins of the U. S. population giving priority to “privileged citizens of northern

and western Europe, while discriminating against those from southern and eastern

Europe, and largely excluding Asians and Africans” (Wolgin, 2011, p. 1).

Home Country. For purposes of this study, home country refers to the birth

country of a study participant.

Host Country. For purposes of this study, host country refers to the United States.

Immigrant. “Migra” comes from the Latin “migrare,” which means “to leave.” An

immigrant is one who leaves for another country typically for permanent residence

(Batman, 2011).

Leader. According to Summerfield (2014), the core function of a leader is to

“make things better” (p. 252). The process of leadership includes democratic, collegial,

and enhancement elements with which a leader influences and respects others in shaping

a common goal that ultimately results in an improved condition (Summerfield, 2014). For

purposes of this study, a leader is defined as one who has supervisory responsibilities

over at least one other person.

Minority. For purposes of this study, minority has two meanings: a) one who is

racially and ethnically diverse; and b) numerically less than 50% (U. S. Department of

Commerce, Census Bureau, 2014).

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Minority women. Sometimes called “women of color,” minority women refers to

racially and ethnically diverse women (U. S. Department of Labor, Women’s Bureau,

n.d.b).

Multicultural. Multicultural refers to multiple cultural or ethnic groups. For

purposes of this study, multicultural individuals are those who have experienced cultural

diversity (Phillips, 2012).

Traits. A trait is a defining characteristic of an individual’s personality

influencing that individual’s behavior (Kirkpatrick & Locke, 1991).

Working population. For purposes of this study, working population is defined by

the U. S. Census Bureau as individuals 16 years old and over who typically worked 35 or

more hours per week for the past year.

General Overview of the Research Design

The strategy of inquiry for this qualitative study was phenomenological research.

The study explored the lived experiences of immigrant women leaders who immigrated

to the United States at least 20 years ago. Research participants immigrated to the United

States from the four inhabited continents of South America, Africa, Asia, and Europe.

Research participants were fluent English speakers although they had not learned

English as a first language. Participants had assumed lead, supervisor, or higher positions

in their industries. Each participant was interviewed in a one-on-one setting in English.

Pre-designed questions were used to conduct in-depth, semi-structured interviews.

Summary of Chapter One

Chapter One provided the reader with an overview of the study, explaining the

study topic and the researcher’s rationale for exploring it. Research questions were

24

presented and the theoretical framework that shaped the lens through which the study was

conducted was discussed. The researcher’s assumptions were identified as were the

limitations of the study. Chapter One also described the significance of the study, defined

relevant terms used and finally, provided a general overview of the research design.

Organization of Dissertation

Chapter Two presents a review of the literature and a gap in the body of

knowledge. Chapter Three describes the research tradition, design, and methodology. The

population and sampling procedures are identified and justified in this chapter. Chapter

Three provides enough information so that the study can be replicated. Chapter Four

reveals information about study participants. Chapter Four also presents the data and the

data analysis process. Findings are reviewed in Chapter Four and applied to research

questions. Chapter Five summarizes study findings and their implications. In addition, the

chapter presents recommendations for future studies. Chapter Five concludes with

researcher reflections and a brief summary of the study, findings, and conclusions.

25

CHAPTER TWO

The number of women as a percentage of the U. S. workforce population is

increasing. In addition, the number of women as a percentage of the U. S. immigrant

population continues to grow. As such, so should the opportunities for all women to

assume leadership positions. The study of immigrant women’s leadership traits highlights

important, timely, and relevant research in a growing and multicultural U. S. workforce

population.

President Obama in his January 28, 2014, State of the Union address stated “when

women succeed, America succeeds.” In that same year, 24 of the Fortune 500 CEO

positions were held by women (Women CEOs, 2014). As Hansen (2009) noted, “If the

CEOs of the Fortune 500 reflected the composition of the workforce, 55 would be Black,

70 would be Hispanic, 24 would be Asian and 233 would be women” (para. 2).

History of Women in the Workforce

“Women in the workforce are vital to the nation’s economic security” (DOL,

n.d.a, para. 1). As a result, the U. S. Department of Labor has a Women’s Bureau with a

mission to develop policies and oversee research “to safeguard the interests of working

women; to advocate for their equality and economic security for themselves and their

families; and to promote quality work environments” (DOL, n.d.a, para. 1). The DOL has

no Men’s Bureau that safeguards working men’s interests and that advocates for them

and their families.

The number of women entering the workforce continues to grow. This trend is

amplified by immigrant women even though according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics,

foreign-born women “were somewhat less likely than native-born women to be in the

26

labor force” in 2011 (DOL, n.d. b, p. 4). Based on data from the 2010 Census, the U. S.

Department of Commerce (DOC) distributed a press release on the nation’s changing

immigrant populations. While the press release identified the non-Hispanic/white alone

population as still the largest, it also identified it as growing at the slowest rate (DOC,

2011 a). Furthermore, according to Kayne (2013), the non-Hispanic/white alone

population revealed a minority among babies. The U. S. Department of Commerce press

release also indicated that the populations of Hispanics and Asians grew faster than other

immigrant populations (DOC, 2011 a). The Asian population grew fastest with a 43%

increase, however “more than half of the growth in the total U. S. population between

2000 and 2010 was because of the increase in the Hispanic population” (DOC, 2011 a,

para. 13). After the 2010 Census, Texas, California, the District of Columbia, Hawaii,

and New Mexico were found to have majority-minority populations, where greater than

50% of the people were part of minority groups (DOC, 2011 a). At these rates, the

current non-Hispanic/white alone majority will become, by 2043, a minority in the

United States (Kayne, 2013, para. 3). This data reveals the changing population of the

United States and the changing face of its workforce.

By 2000, nearly 50% of all international immigrants to the United States were

women (Nag, 2005; Foner, 2001). Immigrant women are sometimes referred to as

women of color. The U. S. Department of Labor Women’s Bureau (DOL, n.d.b) defines

women of color as those who are Black or African-American, Hispanic, Asian, American

Indian or Alaska native, Native Hawaiian, other Pacific Islander, or some other race. In a

report entitled The Economic Status of Women of Color: A Snapshot, insufficient data on

27

the last four categories of working women prevented them from being included in the

report (DOL, n.d.b).

No matter the ethnicity of immigrant women entering the workforce, their number

continues to grow. This number is significant when considering the DOL’s statement that

“Women in the workforce are vital to the nation’s economic security” (n.d.a, para. 1). To

understand just how vital, one must acknowledge the steps women have taken and

continue to take to become full members of U. S. society. (Appendix A includes a

graphic timeline entitled U. S. Women’s Rights’ and Work Efforts.)

London’s World Anti-Slavery Convention was the catalyst for the first Women’s

Rights Convention in the United States in 1848 (Women’s History Timeline (WHT),

n.d.). By 1850, the first National Women’s Rights Convention was held and had the

strong support of the Abolitionist Movement (Woman Suffrage Timeline (WST), n.d.).

These events solidified a political and social link between women and blacks as

populations discriminated against because of gender and race.

In 1849, California extended property rights to women, however, not until 1857

did the U. S. Congress pass the Married Woman’s Property Bill, which allowed women

to create contracts, inherit and pass on property, and to sue and be sued (WST, n.d.).

Suffrage efforts stopped because women focused on helping with the Civil War effort.

Despite that, the Fourteenth Amendment of 1868 still defined citizens and voters as

exclusively male (WST, n.d.). Before this time, women worked primarily in the home. If

women worked outside of the home, according to Batman (2011), “they were usually

unpaid assistants to their husbands” (p. 31).

28

In 1872, numerous women were arrested for illegally voting, although by this

time black men had gained the right to vote (WST, n.d.). Wyoming became the first state

to grant women the right to vote in 1890 and Colorado became the second in 1893. At

this time, too, women began to work more outside of the home. The reasons for this were

not only because they were having fewer children but also because technology freed them

from some housework (Batman, 2011).

By the early 1900s, eleven states had granted women the right to vote (WST,

n.d.). In 1916, at a time when the majority of states did not yet grant women this right,

Jeanette Rankin of Montana became the first U. S. Congress-woman (WHT, n.d.). The

19th

Amendment giving American women the right to vote was ratified by three-quarters

of the state legislatures in 1920 (WST, n.d.). According to the National Women’s History

Museum, this Amendment used the exact language that the Woman Suffrage Amendment

proposal had used 41 years before in 1878 (WST, n.d.). By 1933, Frances Perkins

became U. S. Secretary of Labor, the first female cabinet member, appointed by Franklin

D. Roosevelt (WHT, n.d.). As World War II began, once again women focused on

helping with the war effort, recruited by a government promotion campaign featuring

Rosie the Riveter (WHT, n.d.). Women worked in factories and also as nurses. Although

after the war many women returned to their roles in the home, many also remained in the

workforce.

Batman noted that beginning in the 1960s, women started to consider careers

instead of jobs and with this consideration came expectations of equal pay and treatment.

Although these women were primarily white, their minority counterparts’ expectations,

particularly those of black women, also increased (Smith-Hunter, 2006).

29

In 1961, then-President John F. Kennedy appointed Eleanor Roosevelt as chair of

the Commission on the Status of Women (WHT, n.d.). The Civil Rights Act of 1964

created the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which banned discrimination

based on gender and race in hiring practices and in the workplace (WHT, n.d.) again

highlighting the political and social link between women and blacks as minorities. “A

large part of the civil rights movement emphasized finding oneself and discovering one’s

ethnic identity within the minority culture, an identity that had been historically denied to

minority people by the dominant culture” (Batman, 2011, p. 25).

Even though progress had been made toward integration of these minorities into

U. S. society and the workplace, nonetheless the minorities were not full members given

the need to create an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. In 1966, Betty

Friedan and Reverend Pauli Murray formed the National Organization for Women

(NOW) to engage women completely in participatory roles in U. S. society (WHT, n.d.).

The formation of NOW highlighted women’s continuing struggle to become full

members in U. S. society even though nearly 80 years before in 1888, the National

Council of Women, had been established for a similar purpose (WST, n.d.).

In 1972, the Education Amendment’s Title IX prohibited sex discrimination in

public schools, which led to significant increases in enrollment of women in professional

schools and athletic programs (WHT, n.d.). As a result, according to the U. S.

Department of Labor (2013), the proportion of working women aged 25 to 64 with a

college degree “roughly tripled from 1970 to 2011” (p. 1). The U. S. Merchant Marine

Academy became the first of the U. S. service academies to admit women in 1974, the

same year that Ella Grasso became the nation’s first woman governor of Connecticut

30

(WHT, n.d.). By 1975, the Pregnancy and Discrimination Act, as an amendment to the

Civil Rights Act, banned discrimination based on pregnancy, delivery, or affiliated

medical conditions (WHT, n.d.). In 1977, President Jimmy Carter named Graciela

Olivarez, a Hispanic lawyer, as Director of Community Services Administration (WHT,

n.d.).

Women continued to become more and more visible in government roles. By

1981, the U. S. Supreme Court welcomed its first woman, Sandra Day O’Connor; the

United Nations welcomed its first woman U. S. Ambassador, Jeane Kirkpatrick; and the

Vietnam Veterans Memorial design competition was won by Chinese American

architecture student Maya Lin (WHT, n.d.). Women, as members of U. S. society,

became more and more visible inside and outside of government roles. In 1986, Oprah

Winfrey became the first African American woman to host a national talk show (WHT,

n.d.).

The 1990s were a decade of firsts for women in their struggle to become full

members of U. S. society. The National Women’s Political Caucus (2010) referred to

1992 as the “Year of the Women” because of the “surge in the number of female

candidates running for elected office” (para. 9). The United States had its first woman

Attorney General (Janet Reno), its first woman Chief Scientist for NASA (Anne

Cordova), and its first woman U. S. Secretary of State (Madeleine Albright) (WHT, n.d.).

By 1999, the percentage of working women peaked at 60% after decades of increasing

numbers (DOL, 2013). Nonetheless, the women’s march to full participation in U. S.

society continued and more women, including minorities, were nominated, elected, or

appointed to government roles in the first decade of the 21st century. The first African-

31

American woman became Secretary of State (Condoleezza Rice) and the first Hispanic

woman became a Supreme Court Justice (Sonia Sotomayor) (WHT, n.d.). During this

time, Nancy Pelosi advanced as the first woman Speaker of the U. S. House of

Representatives (WHT, n.d.) and later as U. S. House Minority Leader (National

Women’s Political Caucus (NWPC), 2010). When the 113th

U. S. Congress convened in

January 2013, “House Democrats became the first caucus in the history of either chamber

not to have a majority of white men” (Helderman, 2013, p. 2). This Congress included 20

women senators and 81 women representatives: 101 women members or 18.9% of the

535 total members (Helderman, 2013).

According to the U. S. Department of Labor (2013), in 2011, working women

accounted for 58.1% of the labor force. Of these women, significant numbers were

employed in management, professional, and related occupations as architects and

engineers, as physicians and surgeons, as accountants and auditors, and as schoolteachers

(DOL, 2013). Furthermore, 5.3% of these women had more than one job compared to

4.6% of men (DOL, 2013).

As the opportunities for women to enter the workforce grew, so did their earnings,

not only as a portion of household income but also compared to men’s earnings. Married

working women’s earnings as a portion of household income grew from 27% in 1970 to

38% in 2010 (DOL, 2013). All full-time working women earned 62% of what men

earned in 1979 while by 2011, they earned 82% of men’s earnings (DOL, 2013).

According to a report by the U.S Department of Labor Women’s Bureau (n.d.b),

in 2010, 45% of Black families, 25% of Hispanic families, and 12% of Asian families

were sustained by women heads of household compared to 16% of White families. For

32

these women heads of household, the wage gap and earnings over time has had a

significant impact on their families. Over the course of a career, a Black woman loses

approximately $717,000, a Hispanic woman approximately $854,000, an Asian woman

approximately $315,000, and a White woman approximately $440,000 (DOL, n.d.b).

Asian women were 44% more likely to work in higher paying occupations than were

Black women (34%), Hispanic women (25%) and White women (42%) (DOL, 2013),

which may explain their lower loss of earnings over the course of a career compared to

other women. In addition, 56% of Asian women had a bachelor’s or higher degree,

compared with 29% for Black women, 20% for Hispanic women and 38% for White

women (DOL, n.d.b).

The statistics related to U. S. working women are important to consider given the

focus of this study on immigrant women as leaders in the United States. While

immigrants to the United States focused on jobs and educational opportunities, family

reunification, and improved quality of life (The City University of New York, n.d.),

government immigration policies focused on immigrant job skills and family

reunification. According to the U. S. Census Bureau (DOC, 2011 b), of all U. S. residents

born in other countries, 30% had not graduated from high school, however 29% had a

bachelor’s or higher degree compared with 30% of residents born in the United States.

These figures reveal a disparity between uneducated and educated immigrants. They also

reveal that the percentage of educated immigrants compares closely to that of educated

U. S.-born residents.

When comparing the levels of education between women and men, research by

the Department of Labor indicated that 72% of young women were enrolled in college

33

compared to 65% of young men (DOL, 2013). Supporting this research was the U. S.

Census Bureau’s finding that of 2010’s working population, 37% of women had a

bachelor’s degree or higher compared to 35% of men (DOC, 2011 b). Nonetheless, when

all organizations were considered, 25% of chief executives were women (Koenig, Eagly,

Mitchell, & Ristikari, 2011) and “less than 10% of executives in large publicly traded

firms were women with a lower percentage being minority females” (D. R. Davis, 2012,

p. 50). In August 2014, there were 24 women CEOs in Fortune 500 companies

representing 4.8% of the total 500 (“Women CEOs,” 2014), two of whom were minority

women: Indra Nooyi of PepsiCo and Ursula Burns of Xerox (DiversityInc, 2013).

Fortune 500 Minority Leaders

“If the CEOs of the Fortune 500 reflected the composition of the workforce,

55 would be Black, 70 would be Hispanic, 24 would be Asian and

233 would be women.” (Hansen, 2009, para. 2)

Instead, in 2014, Fortune 500 CEOs included six Blacks, eight Hispanics, nine

Asians (DiversityInc., 2013), and 24 women (“Women CEOs,” 2014). These numbers are

small fractions of those identified as representative of the composition of the workforce.

The actual number of Black CEOs was 10.9% (six actual divided by 55 as representative)

of what would be a number representative of the composition of the workforce; the

number of Hispanics was 11.4% (eight actual divided by 70 as representative); and the

number of Asians was 37.5% (nine actual divided by 24 as representative). The highest

discrepancy in actual versus representative numbers was that for women at 10.3% (24

actual divided by 233 as representative).

34

McCann and Wheeler (2011), in a study entitled Gender diversity in the FTSE,

found that 52% of European businesses and 68% of businesses in NAFTA countries had

fewer women than men in senior leadership positions. McCann and Wheeler identified

Lord Davies of Great Britain as that government’s proponent of women corporate

officers. Lord Davies suggested that corporations set targets for having 25% of officers as

women by 2015 (McCann & Wheeler, 2011). After Davies’ suggestion, the Financial

Times and London Stock Exchange 100 companies recruited 23 women officers,

representing nearly 30% of all board appointments (McCann & Wheeler, 2011).

Fortune 500 Women Leaders

In 1934, Lettie Pate Whitehead became one of the first women directors of a

major U. S. corporation, when she became the first ever woman director of Coca-Cola

(“Lettie Pate Whitehead,” 2014-2015). It was not until 1972 that the first woman became

a Fortune 500 CEO, when Katharine Graham became CEO of the Washington Post

(McGee, 2014). During these years, the number of employed women grew from

approximately 22% to approximately 37% of the workforce population (U. S.

Department of Labor, 2006).

For purposes of comparison, in 1991, Fortune 500 companies employed 0.6% of

women as CEOs (Zweigenhaft & Domhoff, 2014) and 9.6% of women as board members

(Johns, 2013) while 33% of the workforce was women (DOC, 2010). It was also in 1991

that Congress enacted the Glass Ceiling Act to study how businesses not only fill but also

compensate management positions (Johns, 2013). In 2005, Fortune 500 companies

employed 1.8% of women as CEOs and 14.7% of women as board members (“The Data

on Women,” 2015) even though approximately 44% of the workforce was women (DOC,

35

2010). By 2013, women represented 4.6% of Fortune 500 CEOs and 16.9% of board

members (Soares, Bartkiewicz, Mulligan-Ferry, Fendler, & Wai Chun Kun, 2013) at a

time when women represented approximately 57% of the workforce (DOL, 2014).

(Figure 1 compares Fortune 500 women CEOs and board members to women as a

percentage of the U. S. working population.)

Figure 1. Fortune 500 women CEOs and board members.

Although these numbers reveal some growth in the percentages of women as

CEOs and board members in Fortune 500 companies, they continue to reflect an

underrepresentation of women compared to their number as a percent of the workforce.

According to Catalyst (“Statistical Overview,” 2014), a non-profit, global organization

with a mission to expand opportunities for women and business, “Women’s

representation in Fortune 500 leadership positions has stagnated in recent years” (n.p.).

Berry and Bell (2012) noted that 10% of companies had no women directors in 2011 and

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

1991 2005 2013

Women as CEOs

Women as board members

Women as % of working

population

36

approximately one-fifth (21.7%) had 25% or more women directors. Fairfax (2006)

asserted that the continuing disparity between the number of women in the workforce and

their representative number, in this case as board members, indicated that not only are

there “significant barriers or clogs… but also that the mere passage of time will not

eliminate those clogs” (p. 580).

Even so, according to the U. S. Department of Labor (2013), of working women

aged 25 to 64 years, those with a college degree “roughly tripled from 1970 to 2011” (p.

1). Furthermore, research by Catalyst (“Firsts for U. S. Women,” 2012) noted that, of

2010-2011 MBA graduates, 36.8% were women. In addition, the U. S. DOC Census

Bureau (2011 b) concluded that, in 2010 among those 25 and older, 37% of working

women had a bachelor’s degree or higher compared to 35% of men. Concurring,

Prestonsoto (2005) found that up to 45% of advanced degrees were attained by women

even though advancement to top leadership positions remained limited.

Women Immigrants

The Hart-Cellar Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 ended the immigration

quota system and, as a result, influenced immigration patterns into the United States such

that by the mid-1970s, approximately 75% of immigrants would come from developing

countries (The City University of New York, n.d.). Until that time, immigration was

considered as a self-selection process that only attracted the best and most motivated

workers (Chiswick, 1999). As a result, according to Seifert (1999), the integration of

immigrants was viewed positively. While government immigration priorities focused on

reunification of families and job skills, immigrants focused on family reunification,

improved quality of life, job and educational opportunities (The City University of New

37

York, n.d.) and the freedoms that the United States allowed, including the freedom to

strive for the American Dream.

By 2000, nearly 50% of all international immigrants were women (Nag, 2005;

Foner, 2001). By 2010, however, 55% of immigrants getting green cards were women

(Kelley & Wolgin, 2012). For these immigrant women, the struggle to fulfill the

American Dream is complicated by not only these women’s immigrant status but also by

varying attitudes toward women in general and women in the workforce in particular.

While there may still be gender biases in United States’ businesses, the growing number

of women in the workforce indicates some change in these biases.

For immigrant women, the attraction of the American Dream is a compelling and

motivating force, however the addition of ethnicity defines and influences immigrant

women’s opportunities in the workforce. Whereas women’s nurturing and caring traits

may help to make them effective leaders, immigrant women’s leadership styles are

unique given the skills they have acquired through ethnicity and possibly gender

struggles, and their needs to be adaptable and resilient. According to Nwabah (2007),

immigrant Nigerian women working in the U. S. revealed critical skills needed by them

and other immigrants. Skills included developing resilience, coping, self-empowerment,

career-growth, and self-assertiveness (Nwabah, 2007).

Fortune 500 Minority Women Leaders

“Thinking differently does not mean we suddenly get a vacation from reality.

But I do think that we need to think again about the legacy we leave.

I think we need to embed a culture of long-term thinking.” (Indra Nooyi)

38

Addressing the Economic Club of Washington, D.C. in 2009, Indra Nooyi,

PepsiCo CEO, discussed PepsiCo’s Performance with Purpose and stated that “there is

more to business than the earnings cycle.” Nooyi suggested that companies must

incorporate their performance with ethical concerns and that rather than consider these as

separate from each other, consider them as merged. Nooyi also discussed the CEO of the

future as one very different from the CEO of today who is driven to “get the biggest

return in the shortest possible time.” According to Nooyi, future CEOs’ job descriptions

will change in five ways: 1) CEOs must have a long-term focus; 2) The public and

private sectors are merging, and CEOs must be able to work within this changed

framework; 3) CEOs must think globally and act locally; 4) CEOs need to be constantly

learning and must be open-minded so they can quickly adapt to the changing world; and

5) CEOs must have emotional intelligence.

Nooyi has transformed PepsiCo by developing her intuition or feelings about the

company’s future in its global business environment. Such soft skills and emotional

intelligence have assisted Nooyi in setting high standards for the company. As Nooyi

(2010) stated, it is “about how we think about what we do. That’s why the first and most

important thing we can do is to change our narrative about what companies are for and

what they exist to do” (p. 247).

According to D. R. Davis (2012), “less than 10% of executives in large publicly

traded firms were women with a lower percentage being minority females” (p. 50).

Canadian-born, Chinese American Andrea Jung became Avon’s CEO in 1999. In 2006,

Indian American Indra Nooyi became PepsiCo’s CEO. In 2009, Ursula Burns became the

Fortune 500’s first Black American woman CEO, as the top leader of Xerox. Before

39

2009, minority women made up only 1.7% of corporate officer positions and 3% of board

positions (Wilson, 2009). By 2013, there were 23 women CEOs in Fortune 500

companies, and two of these were minority women: Indra Nooyi of PepsiCo and Ursula

Burns of Xerox (DiversityInc, 2013).

Barriers for Fortune 500 Minority Women Leaders

Fairfax (2006) noted the continuing disparity between the percentage of working

women and the percentage of women as leaders in large companies. This disparity

indicated significant barriers to women’s progress toward leadership positions, barriers

that time alone would not eliminate (Fairfax, 2006). Wellington, Kropf, and Gerkovich

(2003) found that organizational, cultural, and personal factors were barriers to women

striving for leadership roles. According to the 2013 Catalyst Census (Soares et al., 2013),

women within Fortune 500 companies reported barriers to advancement. These barriers

included the lack of a mentor and role model from one’s ethnic background making

maneuvering within a corporation difficult for minority women (Soares et al., 2013).

Nonetheless, Jackson’s (2012) study revealed that Black women leaders in

Fortune 500 companies scored high (84.1%) on measures of self-efficacy. These leaders’

perceptions of their capabilities in performing leadership duties were high. Jackson also

found that the Black women leaders from Fortune 500 companies reported that their

leadership was “related to their ability to understand, regulate and use their own emotions

and to understand the emotions of others” (p. 134).

Whereas Black women leaders in non-Fortune 500 companies identified

themselves as “now married,” Black women leaders in Fortune 500 companies identified

themselves as “never married” (Jackson, 2012). Additional findings by the DOL (2013)

40

indicated that in 2011, about 69% of married mothers with children under 18 at home

worked compared to 74.9% of unmarried working mothers. The implications of these and

Jackson’s findings may be that there continue to be challenges in balancing work and

family (“Women of color,” 1999), particularly in corporate environments. However,

Wellington et al. (2003) also found that women did not achieve leadership positions as a

result of their lack of motivations and aspirations to attain such positions.

Quotas and affirmative action initiatives presented opportunities for addressing

the disparity in leadership of Black women in Fortune 500 companies (Jackson, 2012).

Jackson’s (2012) findings revealed that leadership development programs had little if any

effect on the success of Black women within or outside of Fortune 500 companies.

Nonetheless, the author suggested that a shift in thinking needed to occur: “from a focus

on entry to upgrade or advancement” (Jackson, 2012, p. 141).

Zweigenhalf & Domhoff (2014) found that at least half of the Fortune 500 Latino

and Asian American male and female CEOs were from upper-middle or higher class

backgrounds. This finding was particularly true for those born outside of the United

States (Zweigenhalf & Domhoff, 2014). Socio-economic and perhaps educational

advantages assisted these individuals’ rises to such positions.

High levels of education are not always topics of discussion about immigrant

populations. Nonetheless, this information is important to consider particularly given that

one of the focuses of the Hart-Cellar Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was on job

skills of immigrants. According to the DOC Census Bureau (2011 b), of U. S. residents

born in other countries, 30% had not graduated from high school. While this was true,

29% had a bachelor’s or higher degree compared with 30% of residents born in the

41

United States (DOC, 2011 b). Of those 25 and older, 52% of Asians had a bachelor’s

degree or higher compared to 33% for non-Hispanic whites, 20% for Blacks and 14% for

Hispanics (DOC, 2011 b).

The Impact of Immigrants’ Small Businesses on the U. S. Economy

The U. S. Small Business Administration (SBA) recognizes the critical

importance of small businesses to the U. S. economy. The SBA, therefore, helps

Americans start, build and grow businesses while providing them with counsel,

protecting their interests, and preserving free competitive enterprise (SBA, n.d.).

Haltiwanger, Jarmin, and Miranda (2013) found that small businesses accounted for

nearly 20% of gross job creation.

Haltiwanger et al. (2013) highlighted the important role of new businesses to job

creation. Approximately 3% of total U. S. jobs in any year were attributed to business

start-ups (Haltiwanger et al., 2013). The researchers noted that while this percentage

seemed small, it was in fact “large relative to the net flow which averages around 2.2%

per year” (Haltiwanger et al., p. 360).

Fairlie (2013) found that there was an increased probability of business start-ups

with higher local unemployment rates. In addition, business start-ups grew faster than

more mature businesses (Haltiwanger et al., 2013). This could be because of inflexibility

and lack of quick response, which Mele (2013) identified as risks associated with large,

mature businesses. While Haltiwanger et al. (2013) pointed out the volatility and

experimentation that define new businesses and their products/processes, they also noted

that these products/processes are not only used by but are also perhaps acquired by the

large and mature businesses that account for most U. S. economic activity.

42

The advantages traditionally associated with big businesses are crumbling as a

result of digital technology, which has empowered individuals and enabled small

business growth (Mele, 2013). “On the internet, no one knows you’re a dog, and no one

knows how small your company might be” (Mele, 2013, para. 3). This statement supports

Thomas Friedman’s (2007) globalization 3.0 theory in which technology has leveled the

economic playing field by shifting power to individuals and away from countries (i.e.

globalization 1.0) and large multinational organizations (i.e. globalization 2.0).

Mele (2013) also suggested that big businesses are challenged to “lock in talent”

(para. 5) since associates have easy technological access to information including other

job opportunities. “Because it’s so hard to lock in talent, it’s even harder to build larger

businesses” (Mele, 2013, para. 5). Finally, the success of companies like Amazon,

PayPal, Google, Facebook, and Alibaba depends on individuals and small businesses

such that big business interests become less interesting (Mele, 2013). Again, such shifts

as a result of technology further highlight the individual as critical to long-term business

sustainability in a modern and digital age.

Rosholm et al. (2013) stated that new technologies and work practices instituted

in recent decades have become characteristic of the economic might of developed

countries. These new technologies and work practices were biased against immigrant or

foreign-born workers because they required greater interpersonal communication skills

and understanding of the social and cultural norms of a host country (Rosholm et al.,

2013). Nonetheless, many countries including the United States have eased the ways in

which immigrant entrepreneurs can start businesses. In the United States, the so-called

millionaire visa (i.e. EB-5 or investor visa) assists in economic development particularly

43

in distressed areas (Singer & Galdes, 2014). This visa requires immigrant investors to

invest at least $500,000 in a U. S. business that creates or preserves 10 full-time jobs.

According to Singer & Galdes (2014), by making such an investment, immigrants can

obtain permanent residency for themselves and their immediate families.

Kerr and Lincoln (2008) found a link between U. S. immigration policy (i.e.

temporary worker visa programs) and new innovation and patents. Kerr and Lincoln

concluded that “total invention increases with higher admission levels primarily through

the direct contributions of immigrant inventors” (Kerr & Lincoln, 2008, p. 30).

Furthermore, according to Wadwha et al. (2007), 25.3% of all technology and

engineering companies founded between 1995 and 2005 were started with at least one

immigrant founder.

Supporting Kerr and Lincoln’s (2008) finding linking U. S. immigration policy

and new inventions was information related to the educations of immigrants. However,

Papademetriou, Somerville, and Sumption (2009) noted that by themselves, qualifications

such as educations were not enough for immigrants to prosper in their host countries. In

addition to immigrant qualifications brought to or acquired in the host country, conditions

of the places where immigrants settled affected their abilities to become gainfully

employed (Schiller, 2005). Nonetheless, immigrants represented 24% of U. S. scientists

and engineers with bachelor degrees and 47% of U. S. scientists and engineers with

doctorate degrees (Kerr & Lincoln, 2008). According to Kerr & Lincoln, at the time of

these statistics, immigrants represented 12% of the overall U. S. working population.

In addition to a positive link between government policies and immigrant worker

status, U. S. Census Bureau findings indicated that during the 2008 recession, immigrants

44

started businesses at greater rates than did non-immigrants perhaps because of fewer

immigrant job opportunities. Prior to the 2008 recession, immigrants were about 30%

more likely to start businesses than non-immigrants (Fairlie, 2008). Fairlie (2012) found

that in the United States, immigrant business ownership rates were 10.5% compared to

9.3% for non-immigrants. There was a significantly higher difference between immigrant

and non-immigrant business formation rates in the United States: 0.62% (or 62 out of

10,000) for immigrants compared to 0.28% (or 28 out of 10,000) for non-immigrants

(Fairlie, 2012).

In addition, immigrant-owned businesses exported more than non-immigrant-

owned businesses: 7.1% compared to 4.4% (Fairlie, 2012). According to Fairlie (2012),

immigrants also opened businesses with more startup capital than non-immigrants. This

is significant given that the Small Business Administration identifies undercapitalization

as the second major reason why small businesses fail.

Fairlie (2012) noted that immigrants represented 13% of all U. S. business owners

and started 17% of all new U. S. businesses. Rupasingha and Goetz (2013) found that

increased business ownership was associated over time with statistically significant rises

in income and employment in addition to reductions in poverty rates in non-metro

counties.

In certain areas of the United States, greater immigrant business owner

representation exists. For example, in California, 34.2% of new businesses each month

were started by immigrants (Fairlie, 2008). However, only 12% of all U. S. business

income was produced by immigrant entrepreneurs (Fairlie, 2008) suggesting that many of

the businesses started by immigrants were small businesses with lower incomes.

45

The 2010 U. S. Census indicated that the U. S. immigrant population had

increased to one in eight people up from one in 20 in 1960 (DOC, 2013 a). During that

same time, while the population of all male workers dropped from 62% to 53% of the

total population, the population of all female workers rose from 38% to 47% of the total

population (DOC, 2013 b).

According to Aikins (2013), immigrants have been key to America’s prosperity.

As examples, Aikins identified Alexander Graham Bell and Charlie Pfizer in addition to

the founders of Google, eBay, and Intel. Furthermore, more than 200 of the Fortune 500

companies were started by immigrants or their children (Aikins, 2013). Not only were

these entrepreneurs able to integrate into the United States, but many also maintained

transnational connections to their home countries.

Transnationals are individuals who “link together their societies of origin and

settlement” (Basch, Glick Schiller, & Blanc-Szanton, 1994, p. 6). Transnationalism may

empower immigrants to be resourceful with employment opportunities since many

transnational immigrants maintain close social and financial ties to family in their home

countries (Portes, 1997). Portes (1997) noted immigrants’ levels of social capital in part

generated through their transnational family relationships, even though many immigrants

referred to contacts outside of their ethnic communities for help with healthcare, housing,

legal issues, education, and employment (“Helping Hands,” 2013). Transnationalism and

its resulting social capital, according to Portes, may support successful adaptation in a

host country.

In a globalized world, entrepreneurs do not have to choose between home and

host countries, according to Aikins (2013). Entrepreneurs can prosper in their host

46

countries while their home countries benefit from that prosperity. In an era of

globalization, distinctions between home and host countries become less and less

important. What becomes important is global patriotism. As former Jamaican Prime

Minister Portia Simpson Miller stated,

We have to redefine the concept of the nation. The nation today is not territorial;

it is not bounded by physical space. The nation is a social and political construct.

In a borderless world, the nation is no longer confined by geography. (Simpson

Miller as cited by Aikins, 2013, para. 10)

According to Friedman (2007), such a world is flat and accessible. In his book

The World is Flat, Friedman noted the work of economist David Landes who suggested

that developed countries became developed as a result of their cultural endowments.

Values such as “hard work, thrift, honesty, patience, and tenacity” (Friedman, 2007, p.

421) are critical to development in a flat world. In addition, “the degree to which it [the

country] is open to change, new technology, and equality for women” (Friedman, 2007,

p. 421) is also crucial in the push for economic sustainability.

According to Baker, Aldrich, and Liou (1997), while a gender-neutral approach to

entrepreneurship had been taken to study management and organization, research had

nonetheless focused on male entrepreneurs since there were fewer female ones.

Supporting this, Fairlie (2008) noted that women were less likely than men to start and

own businesses. Nevertheless, Moore, Buttner, and Rosen’s 1992 study identified female

entrepreneurs as “the fastest-growing segment of the small business population” (p. 88)

which at the time comprised 28% of all U. S. businesses.

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America’s history and prosperity has been and continues to be fueled by

immigrants. In addition, the population of immigrants to the United States is increasing.

By 2000, nearly 50% of all international immigrants to the United States were women

(Nag, 2005; Foner, 2001). Women are also increasing as a percentage of the overall

working population. The social capital and adaptability of transnational immigrants

increases their cultural intelligence and consequently their economic opportunities in a

global economy. In addition, the social qualities associated with women and positive

stereotypes such as kindness and sympathy have not only become more and more

necessary (Koenig et al., 2011), but they also increase women’s emotional intelligence.

Considering all of these facts, could immigrant women entrepreneurs, at least in part, be

the answer to America’s continued economic prosperity?

Skills of Leaders

According to Sullivan and Tucker (2012), as “the new capitalism” (p. 1), talent is

a business’s only sustainable competitive edge and therefore all organizations must

capitalize on development of their human resources. Organizations such as PepsiCo have

developed long-term initiatives that include talent sustainability programs. Under the

leadership of Chief Executive Officer Ms. Indra Nooyi, PepsiCo’s Performance with

Purpose talent sustainability program includes efforts to help employees feel whole at

work, where they can not only make a living but also “have a life as well” (Nooyi, 2010,

p. 249). Leaders who embrace talents give voice to all stakeholders to creatively

problem-solve and make decisions. This demonstrates that not only does leadership

reflect the needs of employees but also that it does so while benefiting the organization.

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As organizations capitalize on the talents and development of their human

resources, they must develop leaders’ relationship-building skills in addition to leaders’

abilities to communicate organizational visions and cultures. According to Coleman

(2013), “people stick with cultures they like” (para. 6). People who share a company’s

values or are willing to embrace them are more likely to stay with that company.

Inclusive global leaders such as PepsiCo’s Nooyi are able to influence associates to adopt

an organization’s visions and values “in their own behaviors” (Hellriegal & Slocum,

2011, p. 4). Coleman argued that the behavior of an organization’s workforce and

therefore the organization’s culture is influenced by that organization’s history and place.

Over time, people feel more connected with their organization, as they build on its history

and narrative as the organization evolves.

An organization’s culture may become an inhibitor to progress when individuals

within that culture are bound by its traditions and unable to see beyond its boundaries.

According to Schein (1995), potential cultural inhibitors include patriarchy (i.e. male

dominance) and hierarchy (i.e. class and caste systems). Leaders’ focus on short-term

perspectives also can inhibit progress (Schein, 1995). For example, fearing an increasing

population and the country’s inability to provide for it, the Chinese government instituted

one-child family-planning policies in 1979. Thirty-six years later, a male-dominated

Chinese population features a gender imbalance that has implications beyond China’s

borders.

In global, international, and multicultural organizations like PepsiCo, General

Electric, and Shell, leaders are defined as those who are involved in “the teaching and

learning of future leaders” (Cacioppe, 1998, p. 194). Such focus reflects not only

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leaderships’ long-term perspectives but also its socially responsible management of

organizational and human resources. For example, Indra Nooyi, PepsiCo’s Indian

American female CEO, noted a reciprocal relationship between stakeholders and

PepsiCo, stating that public companies are “given a license to operate by society” and are

therefore responsible to “operate in a duty of care” (Nooyi, 2010, p. 249). Leaders who

guide with such integrity are able to build trust among organization stakeholders.

Trust has been described as the guiding principle of Google culture. Jeff Jarvis

writes in his book What Would Google Do? that “Trust is a mutual relationship of

transparency and sharing – the more ways you find to reveal yourself and listen to others,

the more you build trust” (Jarvis as cited by Jackson, 2013, para. 5). As retired four-star

U. S. Army general Stanley McChrystal (2011) stated, “I learned to believe that a leader

isn’t good because they’re right. They’re good because they are willing to learn and trust”

(n.p.).

A listening leader is a humble one who blends confidence with humility to build a

sense of shared purpose. Marques, Dhiman, and King (2011) asserted that “leadership is

not always about walking ahead” (p. 15). Instead, leaders build a sense of shared purpose

by practicing empathetic listening: gently rephrasing and questioning to allow others a

voice (Marques, Dhiman, & King, 2011). Walters (2005) noted that it is important for

leaders to listen deeply for what is said in addition to what is not expressed yet needs to

be understood. By practicing such listening skills, leaders ensure that workers are happier

and that the organization is more likely to be successful.

Nwadike (2011) suggested that leaders must be defined as moral value leaders

who emerge from and always return to the needs, values, and aspirations of the

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organization’s people. An authentic and genuine interest in associates goes a long way

toward developing them and consequently an organization’s potential. PepsiCo’s Nooyi

(2008) revealed not only leadership skill but also emotional intelligence when discussing

her Indian father’s advice to “always assume positive intent” (para. 1). Nooyi (2008)

noted that when one assumes positive intent, one develops trust in others.

Your emotional quotient goes up because you are no longer almost random in

your response. You don’t get defensive. You don’t scream. You are trying to

understand and listen because at your basic core you are saying, ‘Maybe they are

saying something to me that I’m not hearing.’ (Nooyi, 2008, para. 1)

As such, emotionally intelligent, moral value leaders are able to build long-term

and trusting relationships with associates. According to Heathfield (2014), by identifying

personal values and living them in the workplace, leaders can establish trust among

organization associates. These leaders have greater opportunity to influence the actions of

their associates. At the same time, associates understand who can be trusted and what is

expected of them (Heathfield, 2014; Ostasiewski, n.d.) such that ethical behavior is more

likely.

Emotional intelligence is “the ability to understand and manage moods and

emotions in the self and others” (George, 2000, p. 1027). Emotional intelligence includes,

among other traits, self-awareness, self-motivation, social empathy, and social skills

(Chaney & Martin, 2013). Nooyi’s leadership style is focused on the long-term and is

also indicative of a leader who is socially empathetic and competent.

Leaders with emotional intelligence competencies recognize and appreciate each

individual’s uniqueness (Earley & Mosakowski, 2004). According to George (2000),

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people are sentient beings and therefore can be influenced by others including leaders of

their organizations. In a study of gender differences, Lopez-Zafra, Garcia-Retamero, and

Berrios Martos (2012) found that women revealed higher degrees than men in “general

emotional intelligence” (p. 98) and “in the social abilities dimensions” (p. 100). Leaders

who exhibit emotional intelligence competencies and appreciate associates’ uniqueness

can influence those associates.

Emotionally intelligent leaders embrace five essential concepts: create

organizational goals and objectives; inspire others to appreciate work activities; motivate

others and encourage confidence, collaboration, and trust; promote flexibility in decision-

making and change; and create a meaningful organizational identity (George, 2000).

Therefore, an effective leader is one who uses emotional intelligence to influence

associates and positively harness their energies away from conflict and toward personal

and organizational benefit. These positive energies can help associates understand that

their differences can be used as tools to transform an organization.

According to Earley and Mosakowski (2004), cultural intelligence “picks up

where emotional intelligence leaves off” (p. 139). Cultural intelligence is the ability to

effectively function in situations where cultural diversity exists. As such, cultural

intelligence is a critically important leadership skill to have in a globalized world (Earley

& Mosakowski, 2004).

In culturally-ignorant organizations, the “burden of adapting rests solely on the

individual who is different” (Thomas, 1991, p. 12). However, culturally-intelligent

leaders push their organizations to adapt to diverse associates. Such leaders display

patience, tolerance for ambiguity, respect, empathy, openness, flexibility, motivation, and

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a readiness to suspend judgment (Kelley & Meyers, 1992). Leaders with cultural

intelligence competencies can discern an individual’s behavior as one which is personal

versus as one which is specific to the group to which the individual belongs (Earley &

Mosakowski, 2004).

Cultural intelligence and emotional intelligence do share “a propensity to suspend

judgment – to think before acting” (Goleman as cited by Earley & Mosakowski, 2004).

Both require an individual to deeply consider personalities and interactions to develop

understanding. For leaders, these intelligences must not be developed by imitation; rather

they must be developed authentically in alignment with the leaders’ own moral codes

(Vogelgesang, Clapp-Smith, & Palmer, 2009). This statement supports Nwadike’s (2011)

statement that leaders must be defined as moral value leaders who emerge from and

always return to the needs, values and aspirations of the organization’s people.

According to Nwadike (2011), to operate effectively, all organizations require a

general set of beliefs, assumptions, norms and values, which are guided by organizational

leaders. Beliefs and assumptions influence employees’ behaviors while norms guide

those behaviors as expected and acceptable. Values must be visibly incorporated into a

company’s practices for example through hiring of diverse employees. Leaders’

corporate visions provide a company with guidance and purpose (Coleman, 2013) and as

a result, influence employees’ behaviors and decision-making. In this way, leadership is

not about one person; rather it is about connecting with others to achieve mutual benefits

and shared success.

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Diversity Management

Given a growing racially diverse workforce, organizations can benefit from

inclusion of racial minorities who not only introduce a multicultural nature to

organizations but who can also create competitive advantages in broader markets (Sy et

al., 2010). In such multicultural organizations, employees, ideas and ways of thinking can

bring energy, vigor, and different perspectives for innovation, change, and problem

solving. Such factors may create organizational benefits and advantages that have not yet

been considered and that may be critical to organizational success in a dynamic and

constantly-shifting global economy. These arguments support Sullivan and Tucker’s

(2012) suggestion that “talentism is the new capitalism” (p. 1) and that organizations

need to focus on inclusive and diverse approaches to human resource management. The

right person for a job may be one whose home country, culture, gender, age, or other

identifying factor makes little if any difference to organizational success.

Considering the steady inflow of different nationalities into the United States,

talentism also could contribute to the continued scientific and economic power as well as

the security of the United States. Michaelson (2010) suggested that those countries that

are economically powerful now might not be in the future. Many European countries

were powerful until Europe suffered two world wars, after which the United States

became the global superpower – economically, politically, and militarily. As Kemp

(2013) wrote, however, it is an assumption now that U. S. power has weakened.

Furthermore, U. S. multinationals’ global operations bring back to the United States some

of those host countries’ problems (Kemp, 2013) adding complexity to home country

issues.

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According to Marx (2007), “If the U. S. market is not sufficiently open to global

talent, top leaders will migrate to countries where they see different nationalities

succeeding at the top of companies. This has the potential to be highly damaging for the

U. S.” (p. 3). Furthermore, in his book entitled Flight Capital: The Alarming Exodus of

America’s Best and Brightest, Heenan (2005) noted that the United States is no longer the

“unchallenged repository of human capital” (p. 1) and that the steady outflow of

brainpower poses not only a security threat to the nation but also a challenge to U. S.

scientific and economic power (Heenan, 2005). A United States focused on greater

human resource diversity may help decrease the effects of the outflow of brainpower. In

addition, hiring diverse individuals to work in the United States may help alleviate the

complexities that multinationals bring back to the country.

Further supporting talentism as socially and economically beneficial to

organizational growth is Smith-Hunter’s (2006) research that minority women-owned

businesses grew “four times faster than all United States firms” (p. 17). This statistic is

significant given that although minorities were 34% of the working-age population in

2008, U. S. Census results projected the numbers to grow to more than 50% in 2039 and

55% in 2050 (“Grantmakers in Health,” 2009). Furthermore, by 2000, nearly 50% of all

international immigrants to the United States were women (Nag, 2005; Foner, 2001). By

2010, for every 96 men immigrants, there were 100 women immigrants (Kelley &

Wolgin, 2012).

According to Seifert (1999), many immigrants perceived the United States as non-

discriminatory and gender-free. However, Tastsoglou and Preston (2005) noted that

although immigrant women had the highest education percentages, they also had the

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highest unemployment rates. In a study of Asian Americans, Racho (2012) noted that

although Asian Americans had high levels of education and were viewed as the “model

minority” (p. 8), they nonetheless had challenges reaching high corporate positions.

According to University of California researchers, Asian Americans were “perceived to

be less suitable for management positions” (Sy et al., 2010, p. 904) in the United States.

According to Racho (2012), only 10% of U. S. CEOs were of foreign nationalities

and only 33% had international experience. In 2013, Fortune 500 CEOs included less

than 10% minorities: six Blacks, eight Hispanics, nine Asians, and 23 women

(DiversityInc., 2013). A modern organization like Google currently has a leadership team

that includes four out of 21 senior leaders or board members as women.

In reference to corporate America, Mills (1956) stated “To be compatible with the

top men is to act like them, to look like them, to think like them: to be of and for them”

(p. 141). Potential “leaders outside those circles” (Racho, 2012, p. 34) lacked opportunity

to reach top positions in U. S. corporations. Nearly six decades separate these statements,

and yet both reflect the mix of today’s corporate leaders and the minimal diversity in

leadership ranks.

U. S. businessman Warren Buffet quipped that part of his success has been

because he has competed with only half of the population. In her book entitled Lean In,

Sheryl Sandberg (2013) noted that one woman, when hired, was told by her boss that he

was glad to have her because he was “getting the same brains for less money” (p. 4).

Nevertheless, according to Koenig et al. (2011), the notion of leadership as culturally

masculine has diminished perhaps because of the increase in women leaders and “more

androgynous beliefs about leadership” (p. 618). In addition, masculine notions of

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leadership have changed because of the increasing importance of diversity in many global

corporations where social traits associated with women have become more necessary

(Koenig et al., 2011).

Traditional stereotypes of women include the abilities to develop and care about

interpersonal relationships (Freeman, Bourque, & Shelton, 2001). According to Eagly

(2009), these are “prosocial behaviors that are more communal and relational” (p. 644)

compared to those of men which are “more agentic and collectively oriented as well as

strength intensive” (p. 644).

Eagly (2009) noted a gap between the numbers of men and women in leadership

positions even though according to Aicher and Sagas (2010), there were “no gender

differences in ascribed leadership traits” (p. 165). Nevertheless, Bjerregaard and Lord

(2004) concluded that ethical behavior was influenced by gender: “Women were less

likely to commit ethical violations and more likely to view ethical violations as more

serious” (p.262). Furthermore, Wirth (2010) found that women were better than men at

identifying lies and appropriately interpreting facial expressions.

Women’s indirect and more personal power contrasts to that of men who are

direct, authoritative (Freeman et al., 2001), ambitious, and assertive (Koenig et al., 2011).

Since the latter qualities are most often associated with successful leaders, leadership has

been “viewed as culturally masculine” (Koenig et al., 2011, p. 637). As a result, men

have more access to leadership roles while women suffer from this “lack of fit” (Koenig

et all, 2011, p. 617) for such roles based on cultural stereotypes.

Elam and Terjesen (2010) noted that nations with more women leaders had fewer

cultural norms associating women with home-based roles. According to Women’s

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History in America (2014), women’s first leadership positions outside of the house were

often as activists for labor unions. These women practiced transformative and

inspirational leadership styles that aligned their responsibilities at home with those of

their union head positions (Brigden, 2012).

Whereas traditional thought regarding multiple roles suggests the potential for

conflict, Eagly (2009) noted that multiple roles contributed to good leadership style since

women developed complex interpersonal skills in their home-based roles. Adding to the

notion that women’s multiple roles have beneficial aspects, Ruderman, Ohlott, Panzer,

and King (2007) identified that multiple role commitments were positively associated

with self-esteem, life satisfaction, and self-acceptance further enhancing women’s

effectiveness as leaders. Women’s multiple roles also may be why they often consider

issues from broad perspectives, considering long- and short-term implications of

decisions, which result in creative problem-solving (Wirth, 2010). In addition, Wirth’s

(2010) research confirms Daniel Pink’s theory that women’s ability to present

information via stories sharpens their associates’ understanding of that information

because it is relational and “enriched by emotion” (p. 163).

As more and more organizations embrace talentism as their only sustainable

competitive edge (Sullivan & Tucker, 2012), organization leaders will realize the benefits

to developing diverse human resources that are representative of business environments.

Organizations such as Google and its modern leaders live their values, are culturally and

emotionally intelligent, and embrace diversity among team members. Google must be

doing something right: in May 2014, it was named the world’s most valuable brand

(Rubin, 2014). Now imagine how much more valuable Google might be if its leaders

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were representative, for example, of the cultural or gender diversity of the global

population.

Women as Leaders

According to economic historian and Harvard professor David Landes (1999),

“The best clue to a nation’s economic growth and development potential is the status and

role of women” (p. 413). Furthermore, as President Obama (2014) noted in his State of

the Union address “when women succeed, America succeeds.” In his support of U. S.

women workers, President Obama signed as his first bill into law the Lilly Ledbetter Fair

Pay Act in 2009.

“Historically, women have not been viewed as leaders” (Batman, 2011, p. 33).

According to Freeman et al., (2001), personal characteristics determined leadership and

those traits were inherent [in men] rather than acquired through experience. Women were

inherently not leadership-capable. Even if leadership traits could be acquired, women

working in the corporate world faced challenges. Moore et al. (1992) noted that women

managers reported numerous obstacles to their progress including exclusion from old boy

networks, lack of mentors and female role models, unchallenging assignments and

blocked progress, difficulty with child-care arrangements particularly in dual-career

families, and expectations of appropriate feminine behavior.

The perception of women as lacking leadership skills was underscored by

traditional corporate models of success that portrayed a working husband and a stay-at-

home wife who supported “her husband’s career by assuming responsibility for child

rearing and all other domestic matters” (Fredrick & Atkinson, 1997, p. 114). According

to Batman (2011), under traditional Confucian beliefs, “the single opportunity a Chinese

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woman had for leadership was as a family manager” (p. 24). This typically did not

happen until, as an older woman, she became a mother-in-law in charge of keeping the

family together and who had “an established household to run and younger women to do

the chores” (Batman, 2011, p. 24).

In a study of primarily U. S. leaders, Koenig et al. (2011) found that social

qualities such as being kind or sympathetic are positive stereotypes associated with

women. Further, women’s indirect and personal power contrasts to that of men who are

direct, authoritative (Freeman et al., 2001), ambitious, and assertive (Koenig et al., 2011).

Since the latter qualities are most often associated with successful leaders, leadership has

been “viewed as culturally masculine” (Koenig et al., 2011, p. 637). As a result, men

have more access to leadership roles and women suffer from this “lack of fit” (Koenig et

al., 2011, p. 617) for such roles based on cultural stereotypes. Not only are women

considered as less “natural in most leadership roles,” but when they assume culturally

masculine practices, they may be considered as “inappropriate or presumptuous” (Koenig

et al., 2011, p. 617). New York Times Executive Editor Jill Abramson inquired with

leaders of the paper about the disparity between her pay and pension and the higher pay

and pension of her male predecessor (Auletta, 2014). According to Auletta (2014), this

behavior “may have fed into the management's narrative that she was pushy, a

characterization that, for many, has an inescapably gendered aspect” (para. 3). The

description of Abramson’s behavior was supported by staff comments that Abramson

was sometimes “brusque” (Auletta, 2014, para. 7) in her manner and “hard to work with”

(Auletta, 2014, para. 5). Abramson’s firing suggested gender stereotypes about leadership

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qualities and whether a man would have been treated similarly had he expressed himself

as Abramson had.

Despite corporations’ publicity about leadership development and diversity

programs, occupational segregation still existed (Engen, Leeden & Willemsen, 2001) at

executive levels and in managerial roles that lead to executive positions (Hansen, 2009).

Studies also indicated that recruiting and hiring practices reflected significant levels of

racial discrimination (Hansen, 2009). In studies of recruiting practices, not only were

interviews and job offers more likely to be made to white job candidates rather than to

equally qualified minority candidates (Hansen, 2009) but “applicants with African-

American names were not rewarded for having better resumes" (Bertrand, 2003, para. 7).

Hansen also noted that work backgrounds of white candidates were less likely to be

reviewed. Furthermore, recruiters were more likely to respond to white candidates with

felony convictions than equally qualified black candidates with clean records (Hansen,

2009). Finally, job candidates with white-sounding names received 50% more interview

calls than equally qualified candidates with black-sounding names (Hansen, 2009). These

studies supported findings that the unemployment rate for black college graduates was

7.3% compared to 4.2% for white college graduates (Hansen, 2009). Although there are

increasing efforts to introduce leadership development and diversity programs, diverse

individuals ready to enter and advance in the workforce face challenges doing so.

One way that women can advance in working environments is by having other

women as mentors. Sheryl Sandberg (2013) in her book Lean In identified the need for

and importance of women leaders supporting other women in their rise to leadership

positions. Another way for women’s advancement as leaders is for corporations to

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understand that the definition of leadership has changed. Freeman et al. (2001) suggested

that leadership is not as much about being visionary as it is about the ability to develop a

“reciprocal relationship with followers to achieve a shared purpose” (p. 8). In this way,

leadership is not about one person; rather, it is about connecting with others to achieve

mutual benefits and shared success. Fairholm (1997) suggested that leadership is values-

driven and, as such, naturally reflects the needs of employees. These views of leadership

fit the traditional stereotypes of women as those capable of interpersonal relationship

development and care (Freeman et al., 2001). As Erna Grasz (2008) noted, “a leader

doesn’t mean having all the answers… being a good leader means being able to be an

agent of adjustment. Every one of us is a leader” (n.p.). Leaders get as much out of

relationships as they give (Grasz, 2008). According to Hudspeth (2014), these statements

suggest that each individual has something to offer another - that leadership is about

mutual understanding, collaboration and often compromise, social factors more

associated with women than with men. Leaders who simply give direction are not

interested in understanding what others in the relationship have to say or need. These

leaders are unaware of what is important to others and the ways in which others can

develop themselves, understandings that can result in both sides’ greater commitment to

the relationship. Therefore, female leaders possess social qualities that give them

leadership advantages over men because of their gender.

Women continue to make strides in their struggle to participate fully in U. S.

society. “Women managers are just as vigorous and goal-oriented, and as socially skilled

and charismatic as men managers are” (Engen et al., 2001, p. 594). According to Koenig

et al. (2011), the notion of leadership as culturally masculine has diminished. This is in

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part because of “fast social and technological change” in modern organizational

environments and perhaps because of the increase in women leaders and “more

androgynous beliefs about leadership” (Koenig et al., 2011, p. 618). In addition,

masculine notions of leadership have changed because of the increasing importance of

diversity in corporate America where social traits associated with women have become

more necessary. Such social traits are particularly critical given that the number of

minority women-owned businesses grew “four times faster than all United States firms”

(Smith-Hunter, 2006, p. 17). Although “these traits represent nonquantifiable economic

benefits to society” (Batman, 2011, p. 46), they are nonetheless benefits that underscore

the value that not only women but also minority women add to the U. S. economy.

Furthermore, the growth of minority women-owned businesses does represent

quantifiable economic benefits to society.

Fulfilling the American Dream

The Statue of Liberty is America’s symbol of immigration - of the freedom and

the opportunity that the United States offers. David Landes, economic historian and

Harvard professor, dedicated his career to determining how “the West generated a culture

of economic development that most other cultures” (2013, para. 10) have had difficulty

duplicating. As a Western nation, the United States attracts immigrants who feel the lure

of the American Dream - that with hard work and persistence, they can become

successful no matter who they are. U. S. immigration priorities have focused on

reunification of families and job skills; however, immigrants have focused on family

reunification, educational opportunities, improved quality of life and jobs (The City

University of New York, n.d.).

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Immigrants migrate to other countries, usually for permanent residence (Batman,

2011). By 2000, nearly 50% of all international immigrants to the United States were

women (Nag, 2005; Foner, 2001). By 2010, 55% of immigrants getting green cards for

permanent residency in the United States were women (Kelley & Wolgin, 2012).

According to Seifert (1999), many immigrants perceived the United States as non-

discriminatory and gender-free. Furthermore, in Seifert’s study comparing immigrants to

the United States with those to Germany, the former had a higher degree of labor

mobility at all levels. Nonetheless, Tastsoglou and Preston (2005) noted that although

immigrant women had the highest education percentages, they also had the highest

unemployment rates. Higher education did not necessarily result in employment since

recent immigrants often had difficulty receiving recognition for their foreign educations

and work experiences (Reitz, 2005). For immigrant women, the struggle to fulfill the

American Dream is complicated by not only the women’s immigrant status but also by

varying attitudes toward women in general and women in the workforce in particular.

According to the U. S. Department of Labor, “women in the workforce are vital to

the nation’s economic security” (DOL, n.d.a, para. 1). As such, the mission of the U. S.

Department of Labor’s Women’s Bureau is to develop policies and oversee research “to

safeguard the interests of working women; to advocate for their equality and economic

security for themselves and their families; and to promote quality work environments”

(DOL, n.d.a, para. 1). This mission applies to all working women of the United States.

Robert Armendariz, founder of the Spanish-English newspaper Hispania News, in

an interview stated, “When you brush it all away you realize we’re all God’s children. All

those things, like religion and politics and race, don't really matter. Whether you live in…

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black, white, Hispanic, Asian - we all want the same thing” (Armendariz as cited by

Huspeni, 2008, para. 11). This attitude reflects the United States’ history and

demographic diversity as espoused by the Statue of Liberty’s famous words. It is also

what has enriched the country providing it with courageous, resourceful, industrious, and

often self-reliant individuals willing to work hard to improve their lives.

According to Batman (2011), Asian women considered challenges as

opportunities to recreate themselves suggesting that difficult situations motivated the

women. Motivation and resilience to adapt and overcome challenging situations are

additional characteristics shared by many immigrants who have an “I’m an immigrant: I

can do anything” (Amir Safayan, 2012, personal communication) attitude. Immigrants’

adaptability to challenging situations and ability to overcome them reflects a can-do spirit

critical to integration and success in the United States. Such traits are particularly critical

given that the number of minority women-owned businesses grew “four times faster than

all United States firms” (Smith-Hunter, 2006, p. 17).

These traits have also been identified by Kaifi, Noor, Nguyen, Aslami, and

Khanfar (2013) as useful to situational leaders. Furthermore, Kaifi et al.’s (2013) study

found that those born outside of the United States had higher situational leadership

tendencies than those born in the United States. This suggests that immigrants to the

United States are more likely than those native-born to adjust their behaviors based on

others and circumstances. Their immigrant status means exposure to a new culture or

multiple cultures depending on the U. S. host community. This exposure and the

complexity that it imposes compels immigrants to remain adaptable and flexible as they

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develop multicultural competencies. According to Steers, Sanchez-Runde, and Nardon

(2010),

Multicultural competencies include elements of curiosity, awareness of

diversity, and acceptance of complexity. Such people tend to open up

themselves by rethinking boundaries and changing their behaviors. They

are curious and concerned with context, possessing an ability to place

current events and tasks into both historical and probably future contexts.

They accept inherent contradictions in everyday life, and have the ability

to maintain a comfort level with continual conflict. (p. 37)

Further, individuals with multicultural competencies are not only aware of diversity and

value it, but are also sensitive and committed to it. These individuals’ curiosity suggests a

willingness to seek out opportunities including those that might be risky. They rely on

intuition to make decisions. They have confidence in organizational processes and,

therefore, minimize control systems in part because they trust associates. According to

Steers et al. (2010), immigrants focus on long-term rather than short-term perspectives

and results. Immigrants also “take a systems perspective, including an ability to seek out

interdependencies and cause-effect relationships” (Steers et al., p. 37).

The number of women entering the workforce continues to grow. This trend is

amplified by the number of working immigrant women. Many of these immigrant women

migrated with hopes of greater opportunities than they had in their home countries

(Coser, Anker, & Perrin, 1999; Meisenheimer, 1992). However, according to Segal and

Mayadas (2005), immigrants have been denied opportunities because of their skin color,

their accent or their clothes. They have experienced hardships related to interpersonal and

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family role conflicts, self-esteem, spiritual well-being, and coping linked to adaptation to

their new environment (Kamya, 1997).

Wellington et al. (2003) found that organizational, cultural and personal factors

were barriers to women striving for leadership positions. Barriers included “exclusion

from informal networks, stereotyping… and commitment to personal or family

responsibilities, lack of accountability on the part of senior leadership, and limited

opportunities of visibility” (Wellington et al., 2003, p. 8). Onyeizugbo (2003) found that

even highly educated immigrant women compromised and were less assertive at work, in

order to maintain calm in a marriage and to please husbands. Barriers also included the

lack of a mentor and role model from one’s ethnic background making it difficult for

minority women to maneuver within a corporation (Soares et al., 2013). Barriers to

leadership advancement are magnified in reference to immigrant women such that

Remennick (2004) referred to the immigrant women’s experience as one of double

jeopardy and Coser et al. (1999) to immigrant women as a minority within a minority.

These types of barriers lead to women’s and immigrant women’s lack of

leadership skills. However, lack of these skills does not translate to inability to learn them

when given opportunity. Occupational segregation still exists (Engen et al., 2001;

Hansen, 2009) even though discrimination against women and immigrants has decreased

(Cleveland, Stockdale, & Murphy, 2000).

According to Phillips (2012), there has been little research analyzing the impact

of gender and ethnicity in leadership. As such, discussions about this combined construct

are based on stereotypes and stigmas rather than on knowledge-based diversity research

(Phillips, 2012). In many societies, these socio-cultural factors have implications for

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power and should therefore be studied to provide insight into a “more balanced

interpretation of leadership” (Phillips, 2012, p. 141) particularly in an increasingly

integrated and globalized world.

Adewoye (2013) noted that in such a world, cross-cultural implications are also

critical to an understanding of women’s leadership competencies. Sharma (2012)

concurred that researchers must study the ways in which women adopt and develop

leadership skills within various nations. Not only may culture affect development of these

skills, but it may also influence the perceptions about women leaders and their

competencies.

Summary of Chapter Two

The number of women as a percentage of the U. S. workforce population

continues to grow. In addition, the number of women as a percentage of the U. S.

immigrant population continues to grow. As such, so should the opportunities for all

women to assume leadership positions. The study of immigrant women’s leadership traits

highlights important, timely and relevant research in a growing and multicultural U. S.

workforce population.

“Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

The Statue of Liberty

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Chapter Three presents the research methods for the study in addition to

supporting information. The information provided is sufficient for replication of the study

by other researchers.

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CHAPTER THREE

This chapter presents: research tradition; research design; population and sample;

sampling procedure; instrumentation; validity and reliability; data collection procedure;

transcriptions; bracketing; data analysis procedure; limitations; ethical considerations;

and the role of the researcher. This study is guided by the following research questions:

1) What resources have played a role in influencing diverse immigrant women to

become leaders?

2) To what extent are diverse immigrant women’s leadership traits consistent?

Research Tradition

The intent of qualitative research is exploration. Qualitative research is primarily

language-based and uses rich text to answer the how and why questions of the research.

According to Seidman (2006), “At the very heart of what it means to be human is the

ability of people to symbolize their experience through language” (p. 8). Therefore,

qualitative research often requires direct communication and interaction with research

participants for accurate and effective understanding. As Stake (2010) noted, qualitative

research relies on human understanding and perception.

According to Corbin and Strauss (2008), the qualitative researcher should be

curious and unafraid of trusting her instincts. Furthermore, qualitative research includes

analysis on multiple levels in part because of the large amounts of data that can be

collected, for example, via researcher reflections and interview transcripts. In addition,

the data collected from qualitative research can reveal more than one story (Corbin &

Strauss, 2008) because of the research method’s interpretive nature, which allows for

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creative, persuasive and literary-style writing in presenting the depth of the data

(Creswell, 2009).

The strategy of inquiry for this qualitative study was phenomenological research.

According to Creswell (2009), phenomenology is not only a research philosophy but is

also a research method. Phenomenological researchers study the lived experiences of

participants through extensive engagement with them (Creswell, 2009). The goal of

phenomenological research is to develop understanding about how participants make

sense of their worlds (Bryman & Bell, 2011). According to Seamon (n.d.),

phenomenological researchers interpret human experience by examining and clarifying

human events, circumstances, encounters and meanings.

As with all qualitative research, a phenomenological researcher must identify

biases and preconceptions brought to the study by reflecting on how the researcher’s own

background shapes understanding of the phenomenon and interpretation of research

findings (Bryman & Bell, 2011; Creswell, 2009). The researcher analyzed participants’

descriptions of life experiences to provide groundwork for interpretation of research

findings. In addition, the researcher analyzed data to identify whether or not a general

pattern of common traits exists between culturally diverse immigrant women as they

assume leadership status in the United States.

This phenomenological study explored the lived experiences of immigrant women

leaders who have resided in the United States for at least 20 years. Research participants

lived in the state of Colorado and were fluent English speakers. Research participants

from different industries were included. These participants had assumed lead, supervisor,

or higher positions in their industries. Each participant was interviewed in a one-on-one

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setting in English. Pre-designed questions were used to conduct in-depth, semi-structured

interviews.

Research Questions

The following research questions guided this study:

1) What resources have played a role in influencing diverse immigrant women to

become leaders?

2) To what extent are diverse immigrant women’s leadership traits consistent?

Research Design

Population and Sample

Research participants included diverse women who immigrated to the United

States from the four continents of South America, Africa, Asia, and Europe. According to

Rubin and Rubin (2012), in cultural studies, a researcher continues to interview

participants as long as each additional participant “presents more refined or somewhat

different perspectives on the matter” (p. 63). The researcher continued to interview

additional participants since participants’ ethnic diversities presented the researcher with

different perspectives on the phenomenon. Saturation was reached when information

became redundant and no new knowledge about the phenomenon was presented. The

researcher interviewed 11 study participants.

All research participants were U. S. residents who had assumed lead, supervisor,

or higher positions in their industries. Research participants were fluent English speakers,

however they had not learned English as a first language.

Research participants had lived in the United States for at least 20 years. The

rationale for choosing a 20-year U. S.-resident benchmark took into consideration a time

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before the prevalence of technology. According to The Congressional Research Service,

the Internet “became of interest after the introduction of the graphically oriented World

Wide Web in 1993” (Internet History, 2007, p. 37). Furthermore, in 1996, the

introduction of broadband access via cable modem services transformed the Internet by

providing homes with bandwidth and connection speed (Internet History, 2007). The

assumption was that the lack of technology and the previous high costs of maintaining

home country contacts meant that new immigrants were less likely to stay connected to

family and friends at home and more likely to integrate into their host country, the United

States.

Research participants immigrated to the United States from the four inhabited

continents of South America, Africa, Asia, and Europe. Individuals from the inhabited

continents of Australia and North America were not included in the study. Australia is

primarily an English speaking country, and this fact conflicted with the study criterion

that participants be non-native English speakers.

North America was not included in the study since the United States is one of the

countries in this continent. The proximity of the United States to Canada in the north and

Mexico in the south means that many individuals travel between these countries.

According to the Canadian Tourism Commission (Canadian Tourism Snapshot, 2012),

Canadian overnight visits to the United States totaled 22.7 million in 2012. During that

same time period, Canadian overnight visits to all other destinations totaled nearly

9.6 million. According to the U. S. Travel Association (2013), Canada continued to be

the largest international inbound market for travel to the United States followed by

Mexico in second place. 13.5 million Mexicans visited the United States in 2011, and

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eight out of nine international trips taken by Mexicans were to the United States (U. S.

Travel Association, 2013).

In addition, the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) established

special economic and trade relationships between the United States, Canada, and Mexico.

According to the U. S. Department of State (n.d.), a nonimmigrant NAFTA Professional

visa can be provided to Canadian and Mexican citizens to work in the United States in

prearranged professional capacities. Consequently, the United States welcomes large

numbers of Canadians and Mexicans either as visitors or as professional workers

(Canadian Tourism Snapshot, 2012; U. S. Travel Association, 2013).

Furthermore, English is an official language of Canada. This fact conflicted with

the study criterion of participants who did not learn English as a first language. Mexico is

not an English speaking country, however according to Munshi (2003), immigrants

tended to have more socially-cohesive communities and “ties among paisanos” (p. 2) (i.e.

those originating from the same country) seemed to actually strengthen upon arrival in

the United States. These ties were reinforced by community networks such as soccer

clubs that not only attracted immigrants but also provided them with support to navigate

their new communities (Munshi, 2003).

Non-inclusion of potential study participants from Canada and Mexico as

countries in the North American continent was reasonable given the purpose of this

study.

Sampling Procedure

The researcher used purposive sampling to identify a population sample. In

purposive sampling, the researcher does not identify research participants randomly

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(Bryman & Bell, 2011). Rather, according to Bryman and Bell (2011), the researcher

identifies sample participants who are relevant to the study questions being asked and are

therefore likely to provide theoretical knowledge of the subject.

An example of purposive sampling is snowball sampling (Bryman & Bell, 2011).

Snowball sampling occurs when the researcher uses research participants for help to

identify additional participants who are appropriate for the study. The researcher used

snowball sampling to identify additional research participants.

Time, distance, and financial constraints limited the researcher’s ability to sample

a large population. Furthermore, a sampling frame for the larger population was

inaccessible particularly given a shifting population (Bryman & Bell, 2011). Therefore,

purposive and snowball sampling approaches were reasonable ones for the study

although the sample was unlikely to represent the population.

Instrumentation

In a phenomenological study, the researcher must gain firsthand exposure to the

phenomenon (Seamon, n.d.). As a result, the researcher becomes a data collection

instrument. The researcher used pre-designed interview questions to collect data via one-

on-one, in-depth interviews with study participants.

Pre-designed questions provided the researcher with contexts within which the

phenomenon of immigrant women leaders’ and their traits could be understood. In

addition, pre-designed questions gave participants points from which to start recalling

their lived experiences. Finally, pre-designed interview questions and specific interview

protocols helped the researcher to avoid bias in the interview process.

Pre-designed interview questions included:

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Question 1. Based on your lived experiences, describe the perceptions in your

home country about the role of women as leaders.

Question 2. Based on your lived experiences, how have these perceptions

influenced your ability to develop leadership skills?

Question 3. Based on your lived experiences, describe any home country cultural

influences that supported your leadership development in the United States.

Question 4. Based on your lived experiences, what are the personal supports that

allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders?

Question 5. Based on your lived experiences, what are the professional supports

that allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders?

Question 6. Based on your lived experiences, what leadership traits must

immigrant women in the United States develop?

The researcher used an interview protocol to interview study participants.

(Appendix B includes the interview protocol.) In-depth interviews were arranged by the

researcher and conducted in English. Pre-designed interview questions provided a

starting point for interviews. The researcher adapted additional probing questions based

on observations and participants’ responses including those that were nonverbal such as

body language, gestures and facial expressions. In addition, the researcher adapted

additional questions based on the researcher’s growing understanding of the

phenomenon. In this way, the researcher remained open to participants’ accounts and

allowed for spontaneity and uncertainty (Seamon, n.d.) during the interview process.

In phenomenological studies, information from participants’ lived experiences is

grouped into similar categories (Creswell, 2009). Based on review of participants’

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responses, the researcher developed codes a posteriori (K. Davis, 2013) since the exact

words of participants varied given that English was not the participants’ first language.

The researcher analyzed participants’ transcriptions to develop codes while remaining

flexible to changing codes if necessary based on analysis of each participant’s response.

In this way, the researcher was able to capture responses that do not fit within pre-

established codes (K. Davis, 2013).

Based on coding, major, secondary and tertiary themes emerged from the patterns

of participants’ responses. These themes created understanding about the phenomenon of

immigrant women and specifically the traits that helped them achieve leadership status in

the United States.

The researcher interviewed 11 study participants. The number of participants

depended on obtaining enough data to develop each theme fully while accounting for

variation (Creswell, 2009). In addition, major themes revealed associations to other

themes indicating that sufficient sampling had occurred (Creswell, 2009).

Validity and Reliability

According to Bryman and Bell (2011), the integrity of research conclusions can

be assessed by study validity. In phenomenological studies, validity comes from

participants’ reports of life experiences (Moustakas, 1994). Study participants shared in-

depth life stories with the researcher.

Extended time with participants in in-depth interviews using an interview protocol

and pre-designed research questions aids in the validity and believability of study

findings. Furthermore, writing in rich, realistic text to transport readers not only lends

credibility and believability to study results (Creswell, 2009) but it is also meant “to

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persuade, convince, express, or arouse passions” (Corbin & Strauss, 2008, p. 54).

Qualitative analysis requires that the researcher have an intuition about what the data

reveals, while remaining both flexible and true to the data (Corbin & Strauss, 2008).

According to Moustakas (1994), the researcher’s reflections and intuition help transform

information to provide clarity about the phenomenon.

According to Corbin and Strauss (2008), descriptive details that a researcher

chooses to highlight are subjective based on what the researcher considers important. In

addition, interpretations may be shaped by the researcher’s biases, values and personal

background (Creswell, 2009). The researcher adhered to bracketing standards so that

personal biases did not influence interpretations of study participants’ life experiences

(Hamill & Sinclair, 2010).

External validity relates to whether or not study findings can be generalized

beyond the specific study (Bryman & Bell, 2011). Since all phenomena are specific to a

time and context, then generalization is impossible (Creswell, 2009; Mayring, 2007).

According to K. Davis (2013), qualitative research does not focus on the generalizability

of findings; rather, it focuses on the particulars of them. Nonetheless, the researcher

analyzed the data to identify whether or not a general pattern of common traits exists

between culturally diverse immigrant women as they assume leadership status in the

United States.

Reliability was enhanced since one researcher was used, providing consistency in

analysis of the data. The researcher wrote notes about the codes and their meanings as a

continual check to assure that the definitions of the codes remained consistent (Gibbs,

2007).

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For purposes of reliability and credibility, the researcher reviewed transcripts

three times. Transcripts were first reviewed for textual data. Second, transcripts were

reviewed against recordings for mistakes (Gibbs, 2007). Third, transcripts were reviewed

against other transcripts to provide the “most valid and reliable way to develop

understanding” (Bryman & Bell, 2011, p. 397). In addition, transcripts were provided to

study participants for verification and clarification purposes (Creswell, 2009).

Data Collection

Before beginning data collection with research participants, the researcher

collaborated with colleagues that fit the study participant criteria to review the pre-

designed interview protocol questions. The purpose of this collaboration was for the

researcher to get a feel about how study participants might respond to the interview

questions. Because of such collaboration, interview protocol questions were refined.

The researcher then submitted the IRB application for the study to Colorado

Technical University’s Institutional Review Board. Upon IRB approval, the researcher

maintained an electronic working journal for recording of study participant contact and

information. A copy of the study’s Informed Consent form was included with the IRB

application.

After identifying study participants, the researcher began scheduling interviews

based on participants’ and researcher’s schedules at locations chosen by each participant.

An Informed Consent Form including consent for interview audio-recording, was

presented to and reviewed with all study participants prior to interviews. Signed Informed

Consent forms were obtained from all study participants prior to interviews.

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Interviews were between 35 and 75 minutes and were audio-recorded. Audio-

recordings allowed the researcher to repeatedly listen to interview content as necessary.

The researcher collected data via pre-designed interview questions. The questions

provided a starting point for interviews. The researcher adapted additional probing

questions based on participants’ responses.

After interviews were completed, the researcher also collected data via written

reflections of observations of participants. Nonverbal cues such as body language,

gestures and facial expressions added richness to field notes. The researcher gathered

data via email or phone as necessary to fill in knowledge and understanding gaps and to

provide clarification of content. The researcher took field notes based on such follow-up

communications.

Transcription services. Interviews were transcribed by a professional

transcriptionist. A confidentiality agreement was signed by the transcriptionist before

submission of interview recordings for transcribing. Interviews were transcribed using a

naturalism approach to capture participants’ unintended interjections, which would help

the researcher understand the level of English-fluency of study participants since English

was not their first language. Interview transcripts are included as Appendix C of the

study.

Study participant confidentiality. To maintain anonymity, study participant and

organization names were coded to protect identities. For participants, pseudonyms were

developed by using the first initial(s) of the continent name, the number of years the

participants had lived in the United States and the study participant’s first name initial.

For example, an African immigrant woman who had lived in the United States for 21

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years was identified as Participant A21M. Asia also begins with the letter A, however

there was no confusion with pseudonyms since no study participants from these two

continents shared the same first name initial. South America was identified as SA at the

beginning of the pseudonym. For purposes of this study, Western Europe was divided

from Eastern Europe and identified with pseudonyms beginning with WE and EE

respectively. Organization names were coded using a series of numbers.

Data storage. All data are securely stored at the researcher’s home on a private

computer using a password-protected system. As required by Colorado Technical

University’s Institutional Review Board, all study data and recorded files will be saved

for a period of five years. After expiration of the five-year period, all study data and

recorded files will be destroyed.

Data Analysis

The researcher used MAXQDA software to support the qualitative study. The

researcher’s data included interview transcripts from audio-recordings, researcher

reflections, participants’ post-interview comments from phone or email clarification

communications by the researcher and participants’ remarks after review of their

transcripts. Data was imported into MAXQDA making it easy and efficient to collect,

organize, explore, store, and retrieve data. Themes and patterns were efficiently identified

and imported into MAXQDA for purposes of analysis. A visual chart was produced to

highlight frequently recurring words or themes and to identify connections between data.

Creswell (2009) urges qualitative researchers to analyze data in multiple ways. In

addition, data should be analyzed beginning from specific information and ending in

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general information (Creswell, 2009). The researcher began data analysis with a focus on

specific words or topics and ended analysis with a focus on themes.

After raw data was collected and interviews had been transcribed, the researcher

analyzed each transcribed interview for textual data. Each transcript was reviewed three

times so that the researcher could begin to understand the overall meaning of the content.

Via MAXQDA, the researcher identified rich descriptions of data. Rich data is “more

likely to lead to serendipitous findings and to new integrations” (Miles & Huberman,

1994, p. 1). In addition, field notes were used during data analysis (Creswell, 2009).

For coding purposes, each transcript was examined not only to identify topics but

also to identify the motivation of participants’ words (K. Davis, 2013). In other words,

the researcher tried to determine what and why participants stated what they did (K.

Davis, 2013). Similar topics were grouped together in themes and numbers of themes

were refined to reduce the total number of codes (Creswell, 2009). According to Corbin

and Strauss (2008), to code data is to derive and develop concepts from it by asking

questions about the data and making comparisons between the data to infer concepts that

represent it.

Moustakas (1994) noted that in the process of coding, the researcher notices

patterns and relationships in the data. These patterns and relationships are interpreted

such that the researcher is able to move beyond initial understandings and create or revise

theoretical frameworks from the data (Miles & Huberman, 1994) to begin developing an

understanding of the phenomenon (K. Davis, 2013). “A researcher can think of coding as

‘mining’ the data, digging beneath the surface to discover the hidden treasures contained

within data” (Corbin & Strauss, 2008, p. 66). With MAXQDA, visual charts were

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produced to identify connections between data to further the understanding of the

phenomenon.

The researcher developed 15 themes based on their frequency of appearance in

MAXQDA. The exact number depended on conceptual saturation to develop each theme

fully while accounting for variation (Creswell, 2009). The researcher presents the data in

Table 1 on page 86. Presenting the data in this form shows interrelationships between

themes and provides, at quick glance, an understanding of the phenomenon.

Summary of Chapter Three

Since qualitative research is primarily language-based, the meaning-making of the

phenomenon becomes an interpretation of the researcher. According to Corbin and

Strauss (2008), the qualitative researcher should be curious and unafraid of trusting

instincts when making meaning of the data.

In this phenomenological study, the researcher explored the lived experiences of

diverse immigrant women leaders in the United States. According to Moustakas (1994),

for a phenomenological study, the researcher has a personal interest in the research

question. This researcher, as a first generation Iranian American woman growing up

around strong and resilient Iranian women, was personally interested in exploring the

lived experiences of various immigrant women leaders in the United States in hopes of

identifying common traits among them.

The researcher adhered to bracketing standards that required the researcher to put

aside beliefs about the phenomenon throughout the study (Hamill & Sinclair, 2010).

Bracketing demanded that the researcher be open-minded and not allow personal biases

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to influence research questions, data collection, and data analysis (Hamill & Sinclair,

2010).

The researcher used purposive sampling to identify a population sample. The

sample population included 11 diverse immigrant women who have resided in the United

States for at least 20 years. Research participants were fluent English speakers who had

not learned English as a first language.

In-depth interviews were conducted in English and audio-recorded, using specific

interview protocols and pre-designed interview questions. Interviews were transcribed by

a professional transcriptionist. For data analysis purposes, MAXQDA software was used

allowing the researcher the opportunity to notice patterns and relationships in the data

(Moustakas, 1994).

The researcher developed 15 themes based on their frequency of appearance in

MAXQDA.

Chapter Four will introduce the findings of this study. The chapter will identify

the themes based on the data analysis. In addition, the chapter will present analysis of

each theme supported with participants’ quotes.

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CHAPTER FOUR

This chapter includes discussion of the themes that emerged from pre-designed

interview questions related to the research questions. The following research questions

guided this study:

1. What resources have played a role in influencing diverse immigrant women to

become leaders?

2. To what extent are diverse immigrant women’s leadership traits consistent?

This chapter presents the data from interviews with study participants. The

findings are grouped by major, secondary, and tertiary themes. All themes are supported

by examples from study participants’ narratives.

Participant Demographics

The researcher chose a purposive sampling method to identify immigrant women

leaders who have resided in the United States for at least 20 years. Study participants

lived in Southern Colorado and were fluent English speakers, although none had learned

English as a first language. Study participants from different industries were included and

all had assumed lead, supervisor, or higher positions in their industries. Each participant

was interviewed in a one-on-one setting in English. Pre-designed questions were used to

conduct in-depth, semi-structured interviews.

Study participants included 11 immigrant women born on the continents of South

America, Africa, Europe, and Asia. There were two South American study participants:

one from Argentina and one from Colombia. There were also two African study

participants: one from Kenya and one from Egypt. The researcher purposely chose a

Central African country as one more representative of Africa and a North African country

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as one more representative of the Arab world. The European continent was divided into

East and West. Eastern Europe was represented by a study participant from Russia.

Western Europe was represented by two study participants: one from Italy and one from

the Netherlands. The Asian continent was also divided to provide greater representation

of its diversity. As part of the Asian continent, the Middle East was represented by a

study participant from Lebanon. Countries in the Near and Far East parts of Asia were

represented by one study participant each from India, Taiwan, and South Korea.

At the times of the interviews, study participants ranged in age from their late 30s

to their early 70s. All had lived in the United States for at least half of their lives, between

21 and 52 years. All study participants immigrated to the United States between 1963 and

1994 and at the time of immigration, the youngest study participant was 15 years old and

the oldest was in her late 20s. Four study participants came to the United States for

purposes of education, two for work opportunities, and one to fulfill the American

Dream. The remaining four study participants immigrated as passive followers of

spouses. Of these four, two began volunteer work in their communities immediately upon

arrival to the United States.

All study participants held lead, supervisor, or higher positions at some point in

their professional careers either as self-employed persons or as individuals working for

others. At the times of the interviews, six study participants were self-employed (two as

musicians), two were involved in the field of education, one was a medical doctor, one

was a realtor, and one had recently retired as a statistician. At least six of the study

participants were engaged in volunteer activities in their communities during the times of

their interviews.

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Presentation of Data

Based on an analysis of interview responses and coded data, two major themes

emerged: Integration and Independence. Under the major theme of Integration,

secondary themes included Language, Culture, and Discrimination, and tertiary themes

included Pride, Grit, Double Jeopardy, and Outlook. Under the major theme of

Independence, secondary themes included Dream, Motivation, Confidence, and

Leadership, and tertiary themes included Practicality and Role Models. Table 1 presents

the themes and frequency of each theme after data analysis.

Table 1

Study Data Themes and Their Frequency

Major theme Secondary theme Tertiary theme

Frequency of

appearance in

data

Integration 45

Language 20

Culture 59

Pride 30

Discrimination 34

Grit 9

Double Jeopardy 3

Outlook 33

Independence 30

Dream 15

Motivation 37

Practicality 15

Confidence 28

Leadership 17

Role Models 41

Total theme appearances 416

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Presentation and Discussion of Findings

From early in the interviews and later during the coding and data analysis

processes, the data from participants’ responses began to form into patterns. The

researcher advanced these patterns into the major themes of Integration and

Independence. As Corbin and Strauss (2008) noted, major themes must “show depth and

variation in terms of their development” (p .149) and must also reveal associations to

other themes.

Integration

Until the mid-1970s, the United States attracted the best and most motivated

immigrants (Chiswick, 1999). As a result, according to Seifert (1999), the integration of

immigrants was viewed positively. Participant A30M stated that, in her home country,

“There was this feeling like, hey, we come here; we’re westernized. We can do whatever

the western world can do. … We had such a strong western influence – speaking

languages, you know, always had lots of tourists growing up and… And indeed the

Lebanese, in general, here, excel.”

Study participants focused on the freedoms that the United States allowed and on

family reunification, improved quality of life, job and educational opportunities (The City

University of New York, n.d.). Some study participants noted concerns about home

countries as reasons for immigration. Participant EE22K commented, “We probably

wouldn’t survived because it was very poor and hungry times in Russia. That was

starvation time.” In addition to giving her children the opportunity to learn English,

Participant SA34M and her family immigrated because of “security reasons, at the time,

my country was in such a bad turmoil.”

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An understanding of U. S. culture was and continues to be important to successful

integration. For example, Participant A48S asserted, “You need to understand American

culture, first thing. Then much easier. Accept it. Instead of, you know, criticize or try to

ignore.” The study participants who felt most integrated were those who had developed

deep, meaningful relationships in the United States. Participant SA26R commented,

I think it’s … how much relationships you have grown with this country. … you

start growing more in to your roots and now, you know, I – I definitely consider

myself an American because I am an American citizen. So, you know, when I did

my oath, you know, you do give up your country of nationality and your country

of origin.

Participant A48S discussed the close friendships she had developed with her

customers. Participant A48S stated,

Some customers are my customer for 18 year, 15 year, 10 year. So it’s like a

family. And they get to know - they don’t see me couple of days, they wonder

what . . . then I have a customer bring holy water. I have a customer bring me

food. I have a customer always, she say she prays for me. You know. It’s like a

family.

An understanding and acceptance of U. S. culture and formation of friendships eased the

integration process for study participants.

However, other challenges such as legal issues provided complications to early

integration into the United States. Participant A34L explained, “You find a job. You

settle. You get your green card. Make sure your status is correct before you can even

think about what you want, what you like. That’s probably shared by most first-

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generation immigrants.” Concerns about green cards, student visas, and residential alien

statuses were common among study participants. Participant EE22K reflected, “It was

very shaky the first few years because we couldn’t, we couldn’t plan far with having

student visa and all that. Gypsies. One month here, another month there. Didn’t put any

roots anywhere.” Until legal issues were resolved, study participants were unable to settle

and plan for a future in the United States.

For several study participants, integration continued long after arrival to the

United States. Participant A30M admitted,

I don’t necessarily feel that we get easily integrated. Okay, we do have superficial

- at least me - I feel I have superficial friendships but it’s never at the level that I

have with someone I grew up with who’s from a similar background.

Study participants, including those who had immigrated 20 to 40 years ago, confessed to

still not feeling completely integrated into the United States.

Some study participants noted the inability to fully adapt to certain aspects of

U. S. culture. Participant EE22K stated, “the mentality is different in this country. … The

Americans share. We don’t. You know. And we need to like get to pliers and pull it out

of me.” Participant EE22K acknowledged,

There’s a lot of mental barriers, too, because, you know, you want to be

successful in this country, I realized . . . you need to praise yourself. You need to

market yourself. You need to sell yourself all the time. … We could have self-

promoted more if we were different in our minds.

Participant A34L revealed a reluctance to promote herself for purposes of personal gain

even after 34 years of living in the United States.

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Several study participants emphasized their long lives in the United States.

Participant SA26R declared, “On October 2013, it was my 25th anniversary in the United

States.” Participant WE52J remembered the exact date of her arrival, saying, “I came to

the United States, December 7, 1963.” Study participants, however, continued to be

perplexed when asked where they are from. Participant A48S confessed, “Even I’ve been

here over 40 year. I’m not American. I’m not a Korean. I’m an in-between.” Participant

SA26R revealed,

My response is I am from Argentina but I live in the United States. … Very

specific. Yeah. But it’s a long answer. Because, you know, or sometime it

depends because if people say, you know, ‘”Where are you coming from?” Well,

I’m coming from the United States. “Yeah, but are you from there?”

For the first few years in the United States, when asked where she was from, Participant

SA26R responded that she was from Argentina but that she had lived in the United States

for a number of years. After spending 26 years and more than half of her life in the

United States, Participant SA26R stated that she tries to understand the intent of the

question before deciding how to respond to it.

Language. Study participants did not learn English as a first language. Three

study participants learned English as young children between the ages of 3 and 6 years

old. Others learned English in their teens or in early adulthood by their mid-20s. Many

study participants learned to speak English formally and therefore were not equipped to

engage in typical U. S. small talk. Participant A34L stated,

We were using vocabularies from the books we know. We don’t know the casual

language, the conversation language, what words people use. Up to this day, I still

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have “Oh, what is that word? What does that mean?” We now have more friends

and then we gossip more so we have learned the casual language more.

For some study participants, the ability to learn small talk and conversational English

came only after being in the United States for many years. Participant EE22K admitted

that it took her three years to pass the Test of English as a Foreign Language English

language proficiency exam.

According to Seidman (2006), “at the very heart of what it means to be human is

the ability of people to symbolize their experience through language” (p. 8). Study

participants understood the importance of learning English. Participant WE33T

remarked, “If you don’t speak the language well, then people think you’re dumb. So I

think that holds you back.” Another study participant discussed similar language

challenges during business meetings. Participant A34L admitted,

I would want to say it right. I would want to say it understandably. I remember

when I first go to those executive meetings … I was actually making the

sentences in my brain. … And once I get it, I passed the opportunity. It’s too late.

… That prohibits the spontaneous discussion and participation. … So I become

the wallflower.

The lack of English-language mastery meant that Participant A34L did not present her

ideas even when she considered them better than others submitted to executives.

Participant A48S admitted to her declining English speaking skills as she aged.

She arrived to the United States from South Korea as a 15-year-old and the fact that she

came alone meant that she was forced to speak English. Participant A48S confessed, “But

now I watch Korean TV. I go home, speak my husband Korean, all the Korean friend,

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Korean food—just like Korea.” In addition to bringing all of her family from South

Korea to the United States, Participant A48S stated that there were 23 Korean churches

serving 11,000 Koreans in her Southern Colorado community.

Six study participants were married to men from their home countries but only

four had met their spouses in their home countries. All six study participants spoke their

home country languages with their spouses. Participant A34L acknowledged that she

speaks Chinese to her “children most of the time. My first one speaks back in Chinese.

My second one needs to be reminded and often would speak back in Chinese.” If children

from study participant marriages were born or raised in the United States, a mix of the

home country language and English were spoken with the children.

All study participants spoke English with accents. For some, the English language

continued to be difficult. For example, Participant WE33T recognized that there are “a lot

of misunderstandings which you kind of guess what people are saying and they do the

same with me. And sometimes they guess wrong and it’s funny. And sometimes they

guess wrong and it’s frustrating.” Participant A34L declared, “Much of the hesitation is

due to language barrier.” Study participants lived in the United States between 21 and 52

years, with an average of 34.5 years. Those who had been in the United States longer did

not necessarily speak better English than those who immigrated more recently.

Culture. According to Munshi (2003), immigrants tend to have socially cohesive

communities. Community networks such as soccer clubs not only attract immigrants but

also provide them with support to navigate their new communities (Munshi, 2003). Not

all immigrants, however, have social support networks in the United States and feelings

of loneliness can be strong. Participant EE22K commented,

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Being like late 40s, I’m coming down to, like, going back to my family and

thinking, “What in the heck? What am I doing in America?” I’m going back to

my roots and trying to see what all created this.

Culture and some level of connectedness to home countries were significant for most

study participants. Several study participants had strong ties with home country family

and friends in the United States. Such strong ties, however, sometimes meant that study

participants were less likely to fully integrate into their host country culture.

At least two study participants talked about dying in the United States. Participant

SA34M stated, “You can die and nobody knows. Yeah, it’s amazing, it’s the first place

that I found that . . . I mean, you are alone. You are very much alone.” Participant A48S,

who came to the United States at age 15, has told her children to cremate her when she

dies, saying,

“No bury.” And they say, “Oh wow, you know, you got children.” I say, “Oh

well, I’m alive and I hardly see you guys. Oh, wow, so just cremate it. Just put my

ash somewhere a lot of people. Because I was lonely all my life.”

For some study participants, immigration has come with sacrifices.

For data analysis purposes, culture appeared more frequently than any other

theme. Thoughts, beliefs, and feelings about culture were featured approximately 14% of

the time, or 59 out of 416 total codes, reflecting the criticality of culture for study

participants.

Pride. Study participants expressed pride in various ways when discussing home

countries. Participant SA26R discussed the fact that her country had elected female

presidents. Participant SA26R argued, “We are labeled as third-world countries yet I feel

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like that we’re more advanced in some of those areas as the United States.” Participant

A48S revealed pride in the values held by her home country nationals even when they

have been in the United States several generations. Participant A48S asserted,

But morals are very important to Korea. So most Koreans live United States is

very success, percentage-wise, very good. Even we are small business, work hard,

14, 15 year, but kids all graduate a nice college, good student, and, you know,

they have a good job after that you know. Even they born here. We keep that.

That’s why the Koreans now, no percentage; population is not that big but it’s, we

have a mayor, we have a congressman, we have a lot of doctor.

Even though they had immigrated to the United States, study participants still respected

aspects of their home country cultures and values.

Participant SA26R expressed pride in her host country’s system and its

effectiveness. Participant SA26R commented,

I mean you pay more taxes. You have better roads to drive in. You have nice

parks. And – and you have health insurance. And police and all that. I never - I

don’t understand why people have such a big trouble with paying more taxes. I

never vote for that. Oh, cut taxes. No, you know what. Let’s – let’s make our

politicians responsible to create budget and use the money correctly.

Other study participants acknowledged aspects of the U. S. system that they did

not accept. Participant WE52J stressed, “I never went this way. Never. Never went for

food stamps. Never went for WIC [Women, Infants, and Children] or whatever they call

them.” Participant SA26R felt “blessed to live in the United States because there is so

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much stuff, junk, that it’s already remove that we have to deal with in our countries and

we do not have to deal with here.” Furthermore, Participant SA26R stated,

That’s why immigrants tend to be very successful in this country because we

don’t have those resources in our countries and all of the sudden we’re finding

that we have them here. Like wow. Okay, let’s take advantage of this.

Although study participants understood the advantages of paying taxes in the United

States, personal pride did not permit them to benefit from other aspects of the U. S.

system.

Discrimination. Seven out of 11 study participants encountered discrimination.

Some study participants experienced discrimination either as a result of their inability to

communicate effectively in English or because they spoke English with accents. When

Participant A33L first arrived to the United States, she remembers thinking that anyone

who spoke “fluent English, they must be smart.” Participant WE33T commented that

some “Americans who haven’t been in other countries and don’t have friends who don’t

speak so well” assumed that those who spoke with accents were “not very sharp.”

Participant A48S concurred, stating, “You have accent, they make more fun you know.”

Speaking with an accent sometimes resulted in discriminatory comments or actions.

For Participant A30F, her petite size and attire prompted store clerks to ignore her

as a customer. Participant A48S experienced discrimination because of her size, her

gender, and her Asian features. “You be surprised, they be prejudice … and me being

woman. And my body size tiny too.” Participant A48S added “New immigrants, it’s good

life. Lot better life. Yes. Ninety-nine percent better. Food-wise, culture-wise, because

modern. ‘Hey Chang, you know how to kung fu?’ ‘Hey rice head.’ You name it. But now

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it’s so many of them, so modern. … So many different races so prejudice left.”

Participant A21M experienced discrimination because of her skin color, ethnicity, and

gender. Participant A21M revealed,

I did my internship for my EdS degree program on community engagement in a

school district. I initiated, led and organized the whole process leading to the first

ever district-wide community engagement conference. At this conference, 150

students, district employees attended including the commissioner of education and

several politicians. But I felt like, because, again, Black woman immigrant, the

district did not follow up with the conference.

Participant A21M’s admission supported Hansen’s (2009) findings that

significant levels of racial discrimination occurred in recruiting and hiring practices.

“Applicants with African American names were not rewarded for having better resumes”

(Bertrand, 2003, para. 7). Furthermore, interviews and job offers were more likely to be

made to European American job candidates rather than to equally qualified minority

candidates (Hansen, 2009). Participant A21M’s experience led her to state, at the end of

the interview, “I hope I didn’t say anything bad about white men.”

Some study participants experienced discrimination and others were themselves

discriminatory. Several study participants expressed discrimination toward people of their

own ethnicities and other ethnic groups. Participant A48S revealed, “There are prejudices

everywhere. Every race. I don’t care. Even your own race you’re prejudice against.”

Participant A48S added, “I don’t like Korean lawyer. I don’t like Korean doctor.

Because this is America. I like my American lawyer.” Participant A34L articulated

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feelings of discrimination against others with accents, even though she also had an

accent. Participant A34L commented,

And when we hear other people with accent, you know that’s also, for me, it’s

like, “Oh my gosh, we don’t want to listen to this.” Because you were hoping the

words come out faster and I’m thinking, “Okay, I don’t want to become this

embarrassment.”

Participant A34L added, “Other people probably get annoyed. They probably are losing

patience.” To support her statement, Participant A34L shared news from the past,

recounting,

I remember 20 some years ago people were killed or put into institution just

because of the language, I think in Detroit or some places - this man, a Chinese

immigrant, couldn’t speak very good English, was put into the mentally retarded

institution because they think he is stupid. So it’s not a perception. It was a fact in

the history. And so that, again, makes you very careful, even though we know we

know much more.

Participant SA34M seemed surprised that she could herself be discriminatory. “I

wasn’t getting any luck in getting friends. And somebody say, ‘You know why? It’s

because you are discriminate.’ And I said, ‘Eh, I never thought of that.’” Study

participants endured discrimination but some also engaged in discriminatory actions and

statements.

The topic of reverse discrimination emerged during several interviews. Some

study participants expressed negative biases toward Americans. Participant SA34M

admitted,

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And you know like one time, it was a guy with a really Southern accent. I knew

that he was pretty country. And I said, “Oh my God, this country guy with me; we

are in the wrong place. Both of us.” And we have in our office, there were two

guys that we used to make fun of them in the office, we used to say, “Oh, here are

the two rednecks that we have here.”

Participant A48S divulged,

My three brothers, they’re not good because they – they think they are American.

Because they come here when they’re young and I was supportable, you know,

old lady. So my brother, oh they change. Just like American. It’s their wives and

studies. You know.

For data analysis purposes, discrimination was coded 34 times out of 416 total

codes or more than 8% of the time. Although not all study participants encountered

discrimination, most had experienced some form of negative bias or inequity.

Grit. All study participants pushed themselves to adapt and overcome challenges.

Challenges were considered as opportunities for reinvention (Batman, 2011), suggesting

that difficult situations motivated study participants. Participant SA26R commented,

If you wanna go to college, you know go and try yourself. You know. Go enroll

in the class and you figure it out. So what if you - you flunk and you get an F and

you got to do it again. So what? It doesn’t matter.

Study participants worked hard and at times had little relief from daily responsibilities.

Participant WE52J stated, “I used to make sausage. I used to make that by hand. By hand,

65 lb. I worked hard. 65 lb. And then I used to feel it, you know.” Study participants

exhibited behaviors associated with resilience and hardiness.

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Double Jeopardy. Barriers to leadership advancement are often magnified in

reference to immigrant women. Coser et al. (1999) referred to immigrant women as a

minority within a minority and Remennick (2004) referred to the immigrant woman’s

experience as one of double jeopardy. Participant SA34M confirmed, “I think for you

being successful here, being a foreign and a woman, you have to be even more than

anybody else.” Participant A21M, an African American study participant, questioned,

“How can you as a woman, and a Black woman and an immigrant be able to know how

to penetrate through that?” Participant A21M experienced discrimination not only as a

woman and immigrant but also because of her skin color.

Outlook. Outlook was coded as a sub-theme of discrimination and appeared 33

times, or approximately 8% of the time, in the data. Although not all study participants

encountered discrimination, most had experienced some form of negative bias or

inequity. Participant A30F stated that there were “a few odd instances where I was

reminded that I was not American but I chose to completely dismiss it, ignore it, and

move on.” Participant A30F added, “I couldn’t care less. You don’t let it affect you. You

move on. You have a good sense of self.” Participant A48S commented, “No, it’s there

many time prejudice. I cry but I can’t keep that forever. And I’m the one that hurt.” Many

study participants approached discriminatory comments or gestures in a detached

manner.

Relevant to language, some study participants found that accents could be

beneficial. Participant WE33T stressed, “People from other countries they have an

advantage because people have to listen better and concentrate better when I talk - just to

understand me.” Participant A30F commented, “People would remember me, would

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remember the lady with the accent… so it helped me stand out a little bit more.

Absolutely. It was not a hindrance.” Participant WE33T discussed the speaker at her

son’s college graduation, saying, “I think he was from Norway. And he kind of

apologized for his accent and he said, ‘Well, I just milk it for all its worth.’ And he was

just proud of it, I think.” Whereas some study participants acknowledged discrimination

as part of the immigrant experience, others either dismissed discriminatory instances or

chose to approach them from different and sometimes positive perspectives.

Independence

Individuals who “link together their societies of origin and settlement” (Basch et

al., 1994, p. 6) are referred to as transnationals. Portes (1997) found that many

transnational immigrants maintained close social and financial ties to family in their

home countries. Participant SA26R admitted,

A big resource is money. I like money. I like what money does. So resources like

that now help me travel to my country more often than I ever thought I could do

it. And I can help them more financially if I need to. …so when you give up this

support system and you create another support system, which it could be seen as

cold and lonely. They say, “Oh, you live by yourself in the United States, you

know, don’t you miss Christmas? Don’t you miss family?” Of course you do.

You’re a human being. But then, you know, it comes like well, if I would live

there with this family, what would my life be versus what I have now?

Although transnational immigrants maintain ties to home countries, those ties provide

immigrants with supports to ease adaptation into a host country (Portes, 1997).

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Adaptation and integration into the United States was important to and necessary

for study participants. However, a sense of independence was equally essential for study

participants to thrive in the United States. Participant SA34M shared about friends from

her home country, “I have to say all my friends now are kind of retired and enjoying …

and I still enjoying to working, you know.” Participant WE52J, who stayed home with

her young child and occasionally helped in a family business, had an opportunity to work

for a large retailer. She was reluctant to accept this position because of its potential to

disrupt her family’s harmony. However, ultimately, Participant WE52J decided to take

the position, stating, “You do what you want – what you wanna do. And I said, ‘Well, I

wanna go there because I want an opportunity.’” Participant A48S spent a lot of time in

college classes but never finished a degree since family obligations “always interrupted”

her education efforts. Participant A48S commented that in her home country of Korea,

the culture of women was a “culture to sacrifice.” Participant A48S did, however, decide

to work, saying, “I’m not sitting home to support my husband to be a success.” Often,

study participants’ sense of independence came from work-related opportunities.

Some study participants’ home country upbringings encouraged independence.

Participant A30M revealed a rebellious streak, saying, “I’m the one who was in ballet and

piano and, you know, the girlie kind of stuff.” However, Participant A30M added, “I kind

of rebelled against it because I’m French educated.” Participant A30M stated,

I was treated differently from my two brothers. And to this day, my mother would

take advice from my two brothers before she listens to me, even though here I am,

a PhD candidate and you know highly educated and… it’s a good thing that I’m

aware of it because I am, you know, I’m doing something about it.

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Participant A30F stated that she was given options. “If I wanted to stay at home

and be an at-home mom, they would not have said that’s a bad thing but they wanted to

give me all of the options and the choice would be mine.” Regarding the notion of choice,

Participant A26A’s parents introduced her to her future husband. “Our families

encouraged us to meet. And then we met and we decided whether we wanted to get

married or not.” Participant A26A underscored that the final decision to marry was hers

and her future husband’s, not their parents’. Participant EE22K’s parents also introduced

her to potential husbands. Participant EE22K commented, “they were very careful of

doing it … being such a head strong and determined in what I want to do… It didn’t work

out.”

Other study participants experienced independence after arriving in the United

States. In reference to spousal relationships, Participant SA26R declared, “take care of

your husband. Well, I don’t understand what that means. That – that doesn’t exist in my

vocabulary. Okay. A husband and a wife should be taking care of each other.”

Participant SA26R added,

It’s not that I’m rebel or I’m like, you know, I’m not going to do this just because

that, you know, says that’s what women should do. No. I just – I know that my

brain is wired for other things.

Participant WE52J had been a stay-at-home mom who occasionally helped in a

family business. She missed her mother in her home country and yearned to see her so

she went to work to earn money for a visit. “I wanted to go to work because I was home

sick and I wanna to go see my mom. And I didn’t have, we didn’t have no money. And

we, after six years, I went to see my mom.” Study participants balanced independence

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and the needs required for integration into their new home country with values they

considered important.

Dream. For study participants, the American Dream created hope for the future.

Participant A48S, who arrived to the United States in 1967, said, “I come here to better

life. American Dream.” The notion that with hard work and persistence, anyone can

become successful in the United States is compelling and motivating. Participant SA26R

stressed,

No one can come and tell me that I - I didn’t succeed in the United States or you

know, I couldn’t do this. You either lazy or you don’t look hard enough. I’m

sorry. I have to be as blunt as I have to be on that one. There is no way anyone

would ever convince me that in this country you cannot do something. You can be

anything you want to be. This is the only country that you can get to do that. You

can be anything you want to be.

Participant WE52J hoped to have her own business and stated, “Always wanna

have my own business. And since I was a baby, I told my dad…” However, it was in the

United States that Participant WE52J was able to fulfill that desire. Similarly, Participant

EE22K articulated that she was passionate about performing and it was in the United

States that she was given that opportunity. Participant EE22K stated,

The job at the university, it didn’t offer a performance opportunity…and that was

my passion for many, many years. So we started the group here, just working to

make it work, to make it grow, to make it develop one step at a time.

Possibility shaped study participants’ dreams and it was in the United States that those

dreams were realized with time, hard work, and perseverance.

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Other study participants extended the American Dream to their children.

Participant A48S reminded her children, “You guys born here had a opportunity. Take

advantage. That’s my favorite word. I said, ‘Take advantage. Opportunity country.’”

Study participants expressed hopes of fulfilling their dreams in the United States while

also providing hope for their families’ futures.

Four participants wanted to study in the United States, however three of them

specifically referred to their dream or goal to come to the United States to study.

Participant A26A stated, “It was always my dream to get some education in the United

States.” Participant A21M articulated expectations of those who went to the United

States. “They told us when you go to U. S., you just have to work. So that was expected.

You do anything but your goal is to succeed and get a degree.” Participant A30M

declared, “I always wanted to do my PhD here.” Three study participants completed their

education in the United States and the fourth was pursuing her PhD at the time of the

interview.

Batman (2011) concluded that working in the United States helped Asian

immigrant women develop “self-worth . . . [and] created dreams and hope” (p. iv).

Furthermore, the resources available in the United States helped immigrant women fulfill

their dreams (Nwabah, 2007). The experiences of study participants represented realities

for many women immigrating to the United States.

Motivation. Motivation and resilience to adapt and overcome challenging

situations were characteristics shared by study participants. These characteristics

reflected a can-do spirit critical to integration and independence in the United States.

Participant A21M disclosed,

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When I came to U. S., . . . my parents paid only one semester’s tuition. After that,

I was on my own. So I had to work, hustle, do anything to finish college. So that

was my goal. So yeah. I guess that made me stronger because I had to figure out

how to solve problems in paying tuition. And by the time I finished my BA and

my master’s, I didn’t owe anything.

Participant A30M, when discussing her educational endeavors, stated, “I wanted

to do it and I was highly motivated to do it, regardless of support or no support.”

Participant A26A acknowledged that her hardships were not as difficult as those of

others, saying, “People who have come from even more hardships than I had, if they can

come up, why can’t we? It’s just a feeling that, ‘Oh no,’ that self-sympathy is the worst

enemy.” Participant SA26A came to the United States with an American husband;

nonetheless, she faced difficulties. Participant SA26A stated,

So I knew that I needed to learn English. So I knew that I needed to get out of my

house. I knew that I had to learn how to drive in the United States. I knew that I

had to learn how to go to places. My husband had a job. He was student too, so

the time was very limited. I didn’t have someone coaching me 24 hours and say,

“Oh, well go here, go there.” So I had to do it on my own.

Study participants were motivated by challenges and unwilling to give up goals even

when they experienced hardships. Immigration presented study participants with

opportunities that they embraced.

Rather than be motivated by challenging situations, some study participants were

motivated by the wish to feel good about their work. Participant A28A stated the need to

“to work hard and just be available and do the best; dedicated to whatever you do.”

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Participant A34L asserted, “That’s our mentality to go in there to do our best to make you

or the group look better.” Such a sense of purpose guided study participants. Participant

WE52J acknowledged,

After lots of years, if I don’t like something, I don’t sell it. If I don’t like to eat it,

I don’t want you to eat it. You know. And when I make something, I make it

because I wanna eat it not because I wanna sell it. Because family, it’s good

enough for the people. I don’t wanna skimp just because it’s for sale.

Participant WE52J added, “You know when somebody come and they say how good it is,

that’s my - that’s my gift; you give it to me. You know. That’s my joy. That’s my reward.

More than the money.” Study participants’ purposes varied; nonetheless, purposes were

compelling and profound motivators based on what each study participant valued as

important.

As a theme, Motivation appeared 37 times, or approximately 9% of the time, in

the data. All study participants revealed stories about motivation as they shared their life

experiences in the United States.

Practicality. Study participants were motivated by practical reasons. Participant

WE52J’s wealthy aunt bought filet mignon steaks that the study participant could not

afford for her family. “Me, I used to get hamburgers and I used to put bacon all around

and I used to tell my kids it was filet mignon.” Having limited resources motivated study

participants to become ingenious.

According to Bui (2004), immigrant women accept jobs that their spouses do not

welcome because the spouses are searching for jobs with higher status. Participant

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SA26R discussed her last job in her home country before her arrival to the United States.

Participant SA26R explained,

My last job was designing houses. I worked for a construction company and I was

a technical drafter. And I was able to design houses and – and do everything that I

needed to do because I supported an architect and a civil engineer. And when I

came to the United States, the first job I got was a volunteer at a hospital. And

two months later, I get a job at McDonald’s. And so imagine the level of how I

went down from being designing a house all of the sudden to work at McDonald’s

flipping hamburgers.

Study participants were willing to accept jobs that they felt assisted with integration into

their host country.

Participant SA26R declared that she would “prefer to be a maid in the United

States” than be a millionaire in her home country. Participant SA26R commented,

It’s the freedom. It’s all the intangible things that they don’t get to see unless they

have come and visit here and live here that, you know, a maid has a car. And a

maid has, you know, health insurance and a maid can, you know, take care of her

children and probably have, maybe a modest life.

Participant SA26R also stated, “I don’t want to, you know, live in an underdeveloped

country which I have to constantly fight.” Participants’ home country peers struggled.

One friend told Participant SA26R, “Well, I started this, you know, course at the

university but then the teachers didn’t get paid enough money, so then they went on

strike.” In her home country, there were constant barriers to advancement. In comparison,

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life in the United States seemed struggle-free such that Participant SA26R was motivated,

for practical purposes, to start her own business.

Confidence. Many study participants articulated statements of self-efficacy.

Participant SA26R questioned if she could “move to another state and create another

business similar to the one I have? Of course. I’ve no doubt.” Study participants were

confident and possessed an internal locus of control such that they could guide their

destinies. Participant SA34M announced, “I always have a goal. No matter what you do,

you have to do it right.” This belief in oneself influenced study participants’ actions and

behaviors.

Some study participants, even though confident, were uncertain and

uncomfortable with promoting themselves and their work. Participant A34L admitted,

“But I am more passive. I have to say that. If I present one time, I feel like I’m compelled

to present. If I present it one time and they are not interested, I wouldn’t push it.”

Participant A34L added, “You have to be quiet. That’s a virtue. You cannot speak up.

You cannot argue for your own benefit because that’s bad. It’s a bad thing to ask.”

Participant A34L divulged,

They even have a saying, it’s funny, that the gun will shoot the bird that stick their

head out. So anybody that speak up. It’s very different from the squeaking wheel

thing here. Because the squeaking wheel gets – gets what they want. Over there, if

you dare to show differences, you’re the one; you’ll be targeted. That’s our

Chinese saying. Imagine that. It’s believed in everybody.

To further explain, Participant A34L shared her experience at a Chinese conference.

Participant A34L asked conference attendees,

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How many of you think that you are introverts or extroverts?’ And this woman

look at me almost resentful and just said, ‘What do you mean? We are all

introverts. We should be all introverts.’ I think I probably posed a threat, that she

feels it’s challenging her belief. And so even though as an introvert, she had to

speak up to say that you’re challenging us.

Some home country cultural influences nurtured quiet confidence, except in unique

situations that required a more assertive demeanor.

In the United States, however, Participant A34L encouraged her U. S.-born

children to not be cautious. Participant A34L recommended,

Take initiative. I tell my children now all the time, “You have to feel confident

enough to go and take the initiative to do whatever that you want to do. And

rather than thinking about well, is this right? Do I fit in? Am I doing the right

thing?”

Similar to Participant A48S, who told her U. S.-born children that they had advantages

because they were born in the “opportunity country,” Participant A34L had different

expectations for her children than she did for herself.

Even after spending more than half of their lifetimes in the United States, some

study participants were still uncomfortable speaking up for themselves. Participant

EE22K disclosed having been a star in her home country.

Competition winners. And we come here and it’s like, here, we’re nobody and

then how do you promote yourself? But oh, that’s what you do. What are you

talking about? It’s not appropriate. It took some time to adjust and kind of - and

still I’m not comfortable doing that. I just do it because it’s necessary.

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Study participants were willing to adjust their personalities to assist with integration into

their host country. This did not mean, however, that they were comfortable or confident

doing so even with extended time in the United States.

Leadership. Fairfax (2006) suggested that more than time was necessary to

eliminate barriers to leadership positions. Cultural, personal, and organizational obstacles

were among the barriers that influenced women’s progress toward leadership positions

(Wellington et al., 2003). Barriers to leadership positions differed among study

participants. Several study participants expressed personal barriers when thinking about

themselves as leaders. Participant WE33T admitted, “I’m not a born leader. I think I can

lead other people when I’m confident of what I’m doing and passionate about it. And

then I want to share with others and tell them what to do.” When EE22K was promoted,

she “felt very uncomfortable doing it because the concept was that women shouldn’t be

in that place.” Participant EE22K stated about leadership, “I didn’t see that happening.

It’s like I wanted to be in a group of equals, which are musically communicating… I

don’t want to be a boss.” Participant EE22K added, “Let’s support and make it work for

everybody. Build it in a different way.” Similarly, when discussing leadership,

Participant A34L asked, “What can you provide to make the whole thing work?”

Whereas Participant A34L expected to be given commands by her supervisor, she

acknowledged that “this person may… not have the expertise of what I know.”

Participant A34L admitted, “I almost feel like I could have led them, you know, and it

could be different.” All participants fit the criteria of a leader for the purposes of this

study. Nonetheless, personal barriers or concepts about leadership narrowed the

participants’ understanding of themselves as leaders.

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Ideas about what it means to be a leader differed among study participants as did

examples of leaders. Participant A30M declared that “the woman in her house is a

leader.” Other study participants specifically mentioned mothers, aunts, or grandmothers

as leaders. In defining her idea of a leader, Participant A26A insisted,

Could be my grandmother. It could be my mother. And I see how they run the

family. It’s so important. They always say it’s a woman who can make or break a

family. So I always thought it does not have to be a leader out in the community,

even at home. How you bring up. And what here they say, the hand that rocks the

cradle, rules the world.

For many study participants, ideas about the meaning of leadership started with women

and their families and homes.

Study participants’ ideas about leadership developed beyond their home lives and

extended into their professional lives and communities. Participant A48S remarked, “My

family live here a long time. So I know a lot of people knows me. If they ask me to help

something, I know better than they are, I will. But I won’t charge them.” Participant

SA26A also acknowledged the importance of sharing her expertise with others, saying,

“The education, the time that I allocate for training and education, is not only to improve

in my life but improve the ones, the other lives. You know, other people need to get a

benefit out of my learn.” Participant SA34M discussed difficulties when starting her

professional career in the United States. Participant SA34M stated that when there are

new people in her office, “I always try to talk to them because I suffer so much when I

start.” Study participants were compelled to serve others and share their knowledge.

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Some study participants did not necessarily want leadership positions even though

they assumed them nonetheless. Participant SA34M affirmed,

I have very good positions that I got because I did a good job but it was not

because I was trying to be a leader. You know, I – I enjoy my job and working

with people and having employees but that was not my goal. I have been happy

having people under me and not having anybody under me.

As Participant A34L stated, “people would follow you” even when they were “not

necessarily imposed to follow.” All study participants were defined as leaders for

purposes of this study.

Several study participants revealed their thoughts about organizational barriers to

leadership. Participant SA34M asserted, “Definitely somebody has to be like a go getter

to have a leadership position. And I admire so much because no matter what, even if you

are a woman from here, you have to fight – fight your way up.” Participant A34L

discussed treatment of a male coworker, saying, “This other director went and this, he

gets something; he gets even a position for VP where they don’t have a need for.”

However, not all study participants experienced organizational barriers to leadership.

Participant SA26A commented, “Equal pay, I’ve never had to deal with that problem. I

get paid as much as my coworkers and what males get paid. I feel that if you’re good at

something you’re gonna get paid.” Participant SA26R also discussed the opportunities for

skill development that she received while working in corporate America. Participant

SA26R commented,

Organizational skills. How to lead meetings. How to manage your time. All those

things is something that I learned from corporate America. So they have been the

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best trainers I’ve had because you know because of the different components and

the pressure and the stress that you work with, how they teach you to manage all

that.

Whereas Participant SA26R, through various corporations, learned many skills that could

later be applied to leadership of her own company, other study participants learned skills

via mentors or role models who helped them directly or indirectly.

Role models. When all organizations were considered, “less than 10% of

executives in large publicly traded firms were women with a lower percentage being

minority females” (D. R. Davis, 2012, p. 50). Participant A26A named Indra Nooyi, chief

executive officer and chairperson of PepsiCo, as a role model from her home country,

India. Participant A26A also stated that her home country had women queens and leaders

such as Rani Lakshmibai and Indira Gandhi respectively. Participant WE33T identified

her country’s past ruler as a woman, saying, “I was thinking of our queen. She was a

leader. That was Queen Juliana. And then her daughter, Beatrice. And I think they were

powerful leaders.” Participant SA26R described numerous female presidents in her home

country, saying,

Well, currently we do have a female president. We have had female presidents in

the past. We had Isabel Peron. We had Evita Peron. So, and now we have Cristina

Kirchner. You can say, “Well, if this person can be a president and she’s a female,

I can do it too.”

As for women leaders in her country, Participant A21M admitted that “the perception

was it’s nothing wrong with it.” Participant A30M admitted, however, that women in her

home country were not “involved a whole lot in politics and major decision making, you

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know, on a national level” even though they did take “lower level leadership positions.

Shopkeeper is a leader. A teacher is a leader.” Women leaders provided inspiration for

study participants to aspire to leadership positions.

Women leaders also provided study participants with ideas not only about what it

meant to be a leader but also about how leaders do what they do. Participant WE33T

remarked, “It helps to just know people [women] who are in leadership positions to kind

of imitate that so you know what you can do and how to do it.” One such leader, a female

backpacking guide, led Participant WE33T and others for several years through the

Austrian Alps on summer trips. “Real leadership skills show when things go wrong” and

it was by observing this leader that Participant WE33T learned the skills and gained the

confidence to later lead her own backpacking trip.

For many student participants, female role models included study participants’

family members. Participant A30F described her mother as a role model, saying, “She

was also most unusual. She was born in 1920. She had me when she was almost 40 years

old.” Participant A30F added, “She was an amazing driver with a stick shift that she

could drive trucks. So that’s the kind of trailblazer that my mother was.” Participant

SA34M admired her mother’s work ethic: “it’s amazing because all her friends are

already dead and she’s 91 years old and she’s still thinking the only thing that I miss is to

work.”

Participant EE22K shared stories about her grandmother and mother. Participant

EE22K commented, “My grandmother was a Communist, one of the leaders of the local

organization.” In reference to her mother, Participant EE22K also added,

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She had guts to move to Moscow with my father to raise kids, to divorce my

father, to go back to work, to make it on her own. When she divorced my father, I

remember my uncle was telling her that how dare that you go work to the factory

and be a boss over 60 man. And she dared to do that.

Role models were symbolic and provided guidance as study participants

developed ideas about leadership. As a theme, Role Models appeared 41 times, or

approximately 10% of the time when considering all 416 codes. All study participants

acknowledged the importance of role models as they shared their life experiences during

interviews.

According to the 2013 Catalyst Census (Soares et al., 2013), barriers to an

immigrant woman’s advancement to a leadership position included the lack of a role

model from her ethnic background. Professionally, this lack made maneuvering within an

organization difficult. The absence of a role model means that immigrant women lack

advancement opportunities but more fundamentally, this absence means that immigrant

women lack an understanding about what a leader can look like.

Summary of Chapter Four

Study participants’ definitions of leadership varied even though all study

participants fit the study criterion of a leader. The varied definitions of leadership were

critical to an understanding of the study data. In response to the interview question

regarding perceptions about the role of women as leaders in their home countries,

whereas some study participants acknowledged mothers in the home as leaders and role

models, other study participants discussed female presidents of their countries.

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Some study participants’ ascendance to leadership roles occurred informally and

not necessarily as a result of paid employment. Study participants’ engagement in

community activities or long-term residence in a community, for example, resulted in

assumption of various leadership roles. Other study participants assumed formal and

informal leadership roles as a result of their language abilities, work quality, or other

competencies.

The following research questions guided this study:

1. What resources have played a role in influencing diverse immigrant women to

become leaders?

2. To what extent are diverse immigrant women’s leadership traits consistent?

Research Question 1 intended to determine the resources that influenced diverse

immigrant women to become leaders in the United States. Cultural, social, economic,

family, and professional resources influenced study participants and leadership

possibilities. Home country resources included strong ties with family and friends who

guided study participants after their arrivals to the United States. Some study participants

received financial support from home country family after arriving in the United States.

Financial support eased study participants’ lives such that they were able to pursue their

educations or work activities. Whereas at least one study participant declared her

motivations with or without support of any sort, most study participants relied on various

economic, social, or family benefits to ultimately pursue leadership opportunities.

Music provided cultural and social foundations for two study participants. These

participants not only continued musical careers in the United States but also established

themselves as leaders within these careers. The two study participants formed or reshaped

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their musical groups and expanded their groups’ reaches within and beyond their

communities.

It was in the United States that professional resources became important in

influencing study participants’ leadership opportunities. For several, professional

resources resulted from participants’ volunteer engagements in their communities. Study

participants were recognized for their abilities and were later tasked to lead additional

community activities.

For others, professional resources included mentors or role models in their

workplaces or communities. In response to the interview question regarding professional

supports that allowed study participants to develop as leaders in the United States, all

participants highlighted the importance of role models. Role Models was the only theme

that consistently appeared for all study participants in relation to their leadership

development. Role models served as symbols of possibility and opportunity for study

participants and provided guidance in developing ideas about leadership.

Research Question 2 intended to identify consistent traits common among diverse

immigrant women leaders in the United States. Distinguishing traits emerged from the

data analysis. Whereas trait nouns are used “as labels for symbols for people”

(Beaumont, 2009, para. 3), trait adjectives are used “as labels for symbols to describe

people” (Beaumont, 2009, para. 3).

Motivation was the single trait noun and theme that emerged from all of the 11

study participants’ data. Motivation was coded 37 times out of a total of 416 codes.

Motivation represented the trait adjective motivated. Independence appeared for 10 study

participants and was coded 30 times. Independence described the trait adjective

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independent. Pride was shared by eight study participants and was also coded 30 times.

Pride represented proud as a trait adjective. Confidence was coded 28 times by eight

study participants. Confidence represented the trait adjective confident. Outlook appeared

33 times among interviews with seven study participants. For purposes of this study,

outlook described a positive attitude as a trait adjective. Although each trait did not

emerge for all study participants, the traits nonetheless were significant for a majority of

participants.

The data confirmed a commonality in the traits of study participants; however,

participants’ responses revealed that leadership traits should be considered alongside

culture and cultural influences. In response to the interview question regarding home

country cultural influences that supported U. S. leadership development, the study found

that underlying assumptions and expectations of participants’ cultures still resonated with

study participants, including for those who had lived in the United States 34 or more

years.

Nonetheless, even when a cultural expectation might encourage quiet rather than

self-advocating traits, there was a temptation on the part of the study participant to push

the boundaries of her defined culture. Several study participants admitted to holding onto

the values and beliefs of their home country cultures even when those values and beliefs

were no longer current in their home countries. Study participants straddled a new culture

and an old culture that, in some cases, no longer existed as it had before.

Chapter 5 presents a discussion of this study’s findings, conclusions, implications

of the research, and recommendations for future research.

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CHAPTER FIVE

This chapter includes a discussion of the findings of the study of 11 diverse

immigrant women leaders and the consistent traits among them. The data from interviews

informed the findings about how these traits helped the study participants to become

leaders in the United States. Furthermore, included in this chapter is a discussion of the

resources which played a role in influencing the women to become leaders. The

following research questions guided this study:

1. What resources have played a role in influencing diverse immigrant women to

become leaders?

2. To what extent are diverse immigrant women’s leadership traits consistent?

This chapter presents the conclusions from the findings, study limitations,

implications of the study for practice and recommendations for future research.

Findings and Conclusions

The major themes of integration and independence emerged from the data. Even

though study participants were immigrants, all study participants had lived in the United

States for at least half of their lives, with an average residency of 34.5 years. Four study

participants immigrated as passive followers of spouses. Three study participants met and

married spouses from their home countries after immigrating. Nine of 11 study

participants raised children in the United States. Two study participants did not have

children and one was no longer married. All study participants had built the majority of

their adult lives and professional careers in the United States.

The following sections respond to Research Question 1, What resources have

played a role in influencing diverse immigrant women to become leaders?

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The influence of culture on integration and independence. Culture developed

as an important resource. As a secondary theme, culture appeared most frequently in the

data and was defined by country, society, and family. Thoughts, beliefs, and feelings

about culture were featured approximately 14% of the time, or 59 out of 416 total codes,

reflecting the significance of culture for study participants.

Although many study participants had integrated into facets of U. S. culture, they

had not dismissed aspects of their home country cultures. As one panelist at a World

Economic Forum (n.d.) meeting stated while discussing business women in emerging

markets, “women are taking leadership positions, but to change the mindset of thousands

of years of civilization is not realistic” (para. 9). Although the United States cannot

celebrate thousands of years of civilization, study participants immigrated to the United

States from areas of the world that do celebrate such civilizations and histories. These

histories have been influential in the lives that study participants have created in the

United States.

When Participant A48S was considering business opportunities, Participant

A48S’s mother discouraged her from investing in “a night club or liquor business.”

Stating that her mother was religious and superstitious, Participant A48S added that these

businesses were “like fast life” and would “ruin three generation” in the future.

Participant A48S explained the belief with the example of America’s Kennedy family

and its tragedies.

Participant EE22K stressed the necessity of promoting herself in the United States

and the inappropriateness of such self-promotion. This suggested that the behavior was

influenced by home country or family culture, neither of which nurtured a personality

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skilled at self-promotion and advocacy. Yet, for business purposes, this study participant

understood the importance of developing self-advocacy skills in a country like the United

States.

Participant A34L admitted to holding onto the values and beliefs of her home

country culture even when those values and beliefs were no longer current in her home

country. Participant A34L stated,

Because I bring the old value system here and I didn’t catch up with the new from

the home country. And I’m still having the old one and with the Chinese one, the

Chinese value that probably nobody recognize now anymore or identify with, but

then I’m still having it.

Most study participants straddled the cultures of their home and host countries.

Rather than having feelings of abundance as a result of their dual identities, some study

participants sensed a crisis of identity and were hampered by their backgrounds. As a

result, the intersection of integration and independence was unsteady for some study

participants’ personal and professional lives.

The influence of role models on integration and independence. Role models

and mentors emerged as significant resources. As a secondary theme, role models

appeared most frequently in the data after culture. Role Models, however, was the only

theme that was present in data for all study participants in relation to their leadership

development.

For study participants, role models were not necessarily from the same country or

cultural background. Study participants identified U. S. and other immigrant women as

role models and mentors. One study participant identified her brother as a role model

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because he had immigrated before her and had achieved some level of success in the

United States.

Role models and mentors in workplaces or communities provided study

participants with formal and informal guidance. Role models served as symbols of

possibility and opportunity for study participants, helping them to develop ideas about

leadership and to navigate professional environments. Study participants understood the

importance of integration and role models provided them with the structure with which

participants could create independent and professional lives in the United States.

The influence of language on integration and independence. Language was a

resource that made integration difficult for some study participants upon arrival to the

United States. Until study participants became proficient in English, independence

remained inaccessible. All study participants still spoke English with accents even though

two of them had lived in the United States over 48 years.

Participant A48S shared the unique ways in which she learned English: She spent

entire days in a gas station where there was a pinball machine. She could learn some

words from the machine but she could also overhear customers’ conversations.

Participant A48S also spent her first year in the United States eating at McDonald’s and

Kentucky Fried Chicken because she could learn words from the menus.

Length of residence in the United States did not seem to influence study

participants’ English speaking skills. Level of education and type of work, however, did

seem to positively influence English language ability. Some study participants were

fluent English speakers whereas others had proficient English speaking abilities. For one

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fluent English speaking study participant, the lack of English language finesse meant that

she did not present her ideas at business meetings.

For several study participants, English grammar was difficult. In addition, some

study participants mixed up or misused words. For example, one study participant

confused the pronouns he and she. For two study participants, employment in small

family-owned and operated businesses meant that the languages of home countries were

used daily. So although these two study participants had become leaders of their own

businesses and had achieved independence in the United States, their integration into the

United States may have been limited given their continued lack of English language skills

even though they had spent more than three quarters of their lives in the United States.

The influence of discrimination on integration and independence. For

purposes of this study, discrimination was considered as a resource even though it was

not likely to influence study participants to become leaders. However, most study

participants experienced discrimination and these experiences motivated some

participants to consider their own biases and how those biases might influence their

leadership development. Participant A34L commented,

And when we hear other people with accent, you know that’s also, for me, it’s

like, “Oh my gosh, we don’t want to listen to this.” Because you were hoping the

words come out faster and I’m thinking, “Okay, I don’t want to become this

embarrassment.”

Participant A30M stated,

People don’t like people who are different from them. Okay - they say, yes, they

do. They love the diversity. They love that you’re different, but when it comes to

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doing things together, when it comes to developing a close friendship, it is not;

you’re not their first choice. They go to the people that are more like them.

Most study participants experienced discrimination and some engaged in discriminatory

statements against Americans, people of their own ethnicities and other ethnic groups.

Not all study participants were disturbed by the discrimination they experienced.

Some participants ignored discriminatory statements or actions. Others chose to approach

the potential for discrimination from different, sometimes positive perspectives. As

Participant WE33T commented, “people from other countries, they have an advantage

because people have to listen better and concentrate better when I talk - just to understand

me.” Such perspectives emphasized independent ways of thinking about discrimination

rather than accepting discrimination as part of the typical and unpleasant immigrant

integration experience.

The following sections respond to Research Question 2, To what extent are

diverse immigrant women’s leadership traits consistent?

The influence of motivation on integration and independence. Motivation

emerged as a critical secondary theme and was the only trait noun that appeared in all 11

study participants’ data. Study participants were motivated by the independence that the

United States provided them. They benefited from choices for family, and educational

and professional pursuits. Participant A48S commented, “You don’t want to work for

somebody and be stay on the bottom. You want to be success, American Dream.”

As Participant SA26R stated emphatically, “There is no way anyone would ever

convince me that in this country you cannot do something. You can be anything you want

to be. This is the only country that you can get to do that.” This can-do spirit was

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representative of study participants’ motivation and critical to their integration and

independence in the United States.

Participant A26A acknowledged that her hardships were not as difficult as those

of others, saying, “People who have come from even more hardships than I had, if they

can come up, why can’t we? It’s just a feeling that, ‘Oh no,’ that self-sympathy is the

worst enemy.” Study participants were motivated in different ways and by different needs

but they were nonetheless inspired to achieve their goals.

For some study participants, immigration came with a sense of loss: the benefit of

independence came at the sacrifice of home country connectedness. Although Participant

A48S stated that her “mind is still Korean,” she admitted, “Even I’ve been here over 40

year. I’m not American. I’m not a Korean. I’m an in-between.” As Participant A30M

revealed, “I feel I have superficial friendships but it’s never at the level that I have with

someone I grew up with who’s from a similar background.” Some study participants did

not feel fully connected to home or host countries. Rather than motivate participants,

their duality at times unsettled them.

The influence of confidence on integration and independence. Confidence

emerged as an important trait. As a trait noun, confidence appeared most frequently in the

data after motivation. According to a discussion about women business leaders at the

World Economic Forum (n.d.), lack of confidence was noted as the reason there were not

more women leaders. “At the individual level, women can take leadership by shaping

their own careers, networking, and being aware of confidence issues” (World Economic

Forum, n.d., para. 7).

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The foundation for leadership competencies such as self-confidence and

motivation are formed primarily in family environments (Conger, 2004). Study

participants’ foundations for confidence were influenced by family dynamics and support

in addition to home country culture, professional experiences, and primarily female role

models. Her family environment and prior professional experiences helped shape one

study participant’s feelings of confidence. Participant A30F commented,

That’s where I am today, you know, having founded a company, having bought

bigger competitor, and having been in business 15 years. That’s not a small

accomplishment, but I take it not for granted but as the normal thing that anybody

with a brain and natural abilities and background that was handed to me on a

platter that I really needed to make something of my life.

Participant SA26R had no doubt that she could “move to another state and create another

business” similar to her current one. Some study participants were confident in shaping

their careers and guiding their destinies.

Home country culture and family upbringing shaped the personality of Participant

A34L, who admitted, “I am more passive. I have to say that. If I present one time, I feel

like I’m compelled to present. If I present it one time and they are not interested, I

wouldn’t push it.” As a result, Participant A34L revealed, “I limit myself before people

even limit me.” Participant SA26R concurred: “Don’t limit yourself with whatever

cultural beliefs we bring with us, because we tend to limit ourselves.” Relevant to her

professional life, Participant EE22K acknowledged,

You want to be successful in this country, I realized finally, 22 years later that

you need to praise yourself. You need to market yourself. You need to sell

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yourself all the time. You know, in our home country, it’s considered

inappropriate. You don’t talk well about yourself. You want to be humble.

Confidence was an important trait that some study participants exuded. For

others, integrating home country and societal and family cultures into independently

motivated personality traits that would be beneficial in the United States was challenging.

This challenge sometimes restricted study participants personally and professionally.

Limitations of the Study

One limitation of the study was its small sample size. Access, time, and financial

constraints limited the researcher’s opportunity to engage a larger sample population

outside of Southern Colorado.

The researcher did not limit study participants based on age at the time of

immigration to the United States. At the time of immigration, the youngest study

participant was 15 years old and the oldest was in her late 20s. The researcher also did

not limit study participants’ ages at the time of interviews. The difference between the

youngest and oldest study participants was greater than 30 years. Consistency in the ages

of study participants at the time of immigration and interviews may have resulted in

stronger parallels of life experiences and, therefore, more well-defined influences on

participants’ traits.

Furthermore, the researcher did not limit study participants based on years of

leadership experience. Older participants did not necessarily have more years of practice

as leaders. Therefore, more precise criteria for years of leadership may reveal similar

professional experiences and challenges that have influenced study participants’ traits.

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Implications for Practice

The study reflects an opportunity in the fields of management and global

leadership. Leaders and managers can creative competitive advantages for their

organizations by promoting inclusive hiring practices that embrace and value a

combination of gender and cultural diversity. Combining the two forms of diversity

specifically in promoting opportunities to immigrant women can bring to U. S. businesses

fresh perspectives and renewed vigor whether or not businesses have global operations.

The United States can reaffirm its strength “so long as 21st-century America does not

allow itself to be subsumed by its fear of the immigrant” (Starobin, 2009, p. 12). As

Bluestein (2015) noted, public debate about immigrants today revolves around

deportation rather than around the fact that immigrants “are more than twice as likely to

start a business as native-born citizens” (para. 3). Furthermore, immigrants are 60% more

likely to participate in exporting businesses connecting the United States to global

markets (Bluestein, 2015). Perhaps the 21st-century United States can be the century of

the immigrant woman leader?

At the World Economic Forum (n.d.) Annual Meeting of the New Champions,

meeting panelists discussed gender inequality while at the same time agreeing that

“stereotypically, women are more inclusive, work better in teams and can inspire loyalty

and instill a sense of purpose” (para. 2). While discussions about gender inequality and

biases in U. S. businesses continue, more women are achieving leadership roles and their

success suggests that the definition of leadership should be one that transcends gender.

Nonetheless, women leaders’ success forces society to consider feminine traits. Social

traits like being kind and sympathetic are positive stereotypes associated with women

129

(Koenig et al., 2011). Furthermore, as Participant SA26R stated in reference to the female

presidents of her country, women “have a particular way to persuade the population or

talk to them or connect with them.” Such social traits help women leaders develop

relationships supporting the notion that leadership is not about one person but rather

about many people connecting together to achieve mutual benefits and shared success.

Implications of Study and Recommendations for Future Research

Future research could include a study of diverse immigrant women leaders using a

larger sample size and national population. Such a study could validate the findings of

this research.

Additional future research could limit study participants based on age at the time

of immigration and interviews. Consistency of these study criteria would produce

stronger parallels of life experiences and consequently, influences on participants’ traits

that helped them to become leaders in the United States. In addition, consistency in these

criteria would increase reliability of the study findings.

Limitation of study participants based on years of leadership experience could

also be explored in future research. A more precise criterion for years of leadership may

reveal similar professional experiences and challenges that have influenced study

participants’ traits.

Not only was the definition of leadership broad for this study but participants’

definitions of leadership also varied. Future studies could refine the definition of

leadership in an effort to identify additional immigrant women’s traits that help them to

become leaders in the United States.

130

All industries were included in this study. Further studies could include specific

industries to determine if certain traits are more helpful than others as immigrant women

assume leadership roles. For example, are different traits more conducive to leadership

roles in the banking versus the travel industry?

Given the influence of culture on study participants, research comparing

immigrant women from collectivist versus individualistic cultures could be informative.

Additional research could be directed at refining distinctions between the two types of

cultures to provide future immigrant women with more knowledge about how their

cultures influence their traits and therefore their leadership abilities.

The topic of discrimination emerged from the data. Most study participants

endured discrimination but some also engaged in discriminatory actions and statements.

Some study participants expressed negative biases toward Americans. A future study of

this topic would accentuate the borderless nature of discrimination in the United States

and how, within this context, immigrant women could develop leadership skills.

Reflections

When I first started this doctoral program, I had grandiose ideas about my study

topic. However, based on initial research and recommendations of instructors, I quickly

realized the time-consuming impracticality of my thinking and narrowed my study focus.

Once I began the literature review, I created a dissertation progress calendar to guide my

work. At times, I fell a little behind my schedule but, ultimately, not only got back on

track but also completed my dissertation earlier than expected.

As a result of this study, the researcher has a greater understanding about how to

consolidate and prioritize a large amount of data into substantive content relevant to a

131

study and research questions. Academic articles, trusted sources and publishers, and

currency of content were critical in the prioritization process. The literature review

sharpened the researcher’s focus and ability to distinguish between strong and weak

articles. These skills helped the researcher identify pertinent content, develop scholarly

writing competencies, and manage valuable time more effectively. It is expected that

these skills will be beneficial ones for professional purposes in the future.

The topic of immigrant women and the traits that helped them become leaders in

the United States continues to interest me. My family is an immigrant family. In addition,

my family background is one that includes numerous women who assumed leadership

roles after immigrating to the United States. I hope that this study motivates future

immigrant women to forge ahead in trying to fulfill the American Dream. I also hope that

this study helps businesses understand these women from social and economic

perspectives as valuable contributors to an inclusive U. S. culture and economy. The next

section on recommendations for future research includes a number of significant ways in

which this research can be continued.

Conclusion

Opportunity comes to those who put away the disadvantages of family or

circumstance and entrust themselves to the future. The point of the American

story is simple enough for a child, particularly an immigrant child, to grasp: The

past holds no sway in America. (Rodriguez, 2013, p. 14)

Although the participants of this study were not children when they immigrated, they

nonetheless understood their arrival in the United States as the beginning of a new future

in which they could reinvent themselves.

132

According to Bryman and Bell (2011), the integrity of research conclusions can

be assessed by study validity. In phenomenological studies, validity comes from

participants’ reports of life experiences (Moustakas, 1994). The currents of the study

participants’ lives led them toward family and educational and professional pursuits in

the United States.

The themes of Culture, Role Models, Language, Discrimination, Motivation, and

Confidence emerged as the study participants began and continued creating their

American lives. Even though Culture as a theme appeared most frequently in the data,

study participants from diverse cultures nonetheless shared consistent traits that helped

them to become leaders in the United States.

Although not all study participants aspired to leadership positions, they all

possessed traits that helped them in their roles as leaders. The traits of motivation and

confidence emerged most significantly from the findings. As themes, Motivation

appeared in all 11 study participants’ data and Confidence appeared most frequently in

the data after Motivation.

As the foundation for leadership competencies, motivation and self-confidence

traits are formed primarily in family environments (Conger, 2004). All study participants

spoke about their upbringings in their home countries. In addition to families and home

country cultures, other resources such as language, views about discrimination, and role

models played a role in influencing study participants to become leaders.

All study participants were highly motivated in their pursuits to build fulfilling

family, educational, and professional opportunities in the United States. Whereas some

study participants were boldly confident, others pursued their goals with quiet confidence

133

as cultural and experiential dualities limited bold expression. Each study participant

uniquely shaped her role as an immigrant women leader in the United States.

Minority women-owned businesses grew “four times faster than all United States

firms” (Smith-Hunter, 2006, p. 17). By 2010, for every 96 men immigrants, there were

100 women immigrants (Kelley & Wolgin, 2012). According to Bluestein (2015), U. S.

new businesses started by immigrants increased by more than 50% from 1996 to 2011

whereas “the native-born startup rate declined by 10%, to a 30-year low” (para. 3) during

the same time period.

The United States is strengthened by the motivation and confidence of immigrants

who start new businesses. According to Steers et al. (2010), immigrants “typically take a

long-term perspective on activities and plans, focusing on long-term results and not

obsessing on short-term problems or results” (p. 37). Given a growing diverse workforce,

organizations can benefit from inclusion of immigrants who introduce a long-term,

multicultural nature to organizations and who can also create competitive advantages in

broader markets (Sy et al., 2010). Growth in the diversity of the working population has

also forced change regarding traditional masculine notions of leadership because social

traits associated with women have become more necessary to long-term organizational

sustainability (Koenig et al., 2011).

According to Marx (2007), “if the U. S. market is not sufficiently open to global

talent, top leaders will migrate to countries where they see different nationalities

succeeding at the top of companies. This has the potential to be highly damaging for the

U. S.” (p. 3). Supporting Marx’s statement, Canada is displaying billboards on California

highways targeted at immigrants with political and legal problems in the United States,

134

encouraging immigrants to move to Canada because of a new startup visa program

(Bluestein, 2015). The United States is no longer the “unchallenged repository of human

capital” (Heenan, 2005, p. 1) so U. S. policymakers must minimize the difficulties

associated with immigration and immigrant business startups. In addition, U. S.

policymakers must embolden businesses to recruit and provide leadership opportunities

to immigrant women.

Of the 11 immigrant women study participants, eight were self-employed. This

was a coincidental finding and not something planned as part of the purposive sampling

process. It could be that self-employed immigrant women are more likely to participate in

a study about immigrant women leaders. Nonetheless, this coincidental finding is

significant and highlights the fact that immigrant women have support resources and

possess motivation and confidence traits, all of which help them become independent and

develop as leaders in the United States.

135

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APPENDIX A U. S. WOMEN’S RIGHTS’ AND WORK EFFORTS

161

APPENDIX B INTERVIEW PROTOCOL

Study: The Consistent Traits of Diverse Immigrant Women as U. S. Leaders

Date __________________________

Time __________________________

Location ________________________

Study Participant __________________

Informed Consent signed? ____

Introduction and Comments to Study Participant

Thank you for your participation. The purpose of this study is to

understand the traits of immigrant women leaders in the United States.

The researcher hopes to identify the traits that embody these leaders by

exploring their lived experiences. The approximate length of the

interview will be 45-60 minutes, and it will include six pre-designed

questions.

Informed Consent

o Key Points

Your identity will be kept confidential. You will be

identified via a pseudonym.

All information gathered in this study will be kept

confidential.

Your participation in this study is voluntary. You may

withdraw at any time.

You are encouraged to ask questions about this study at any

time. Do you have any questions now?

If you have no (more) questions about the informed consent

document, please sign. Reiterate contact information and ask permission to follow-

up after interview for clarification purposes.

Interview

Confirm permission to record the session. Turn on audio equipment and begin interview.

162

Question 1. Based on your lived experiences, describe the perceptions in your

home country about the role of women as leaders. Probing Questions?

Question 2. Based on your lived experiences, how have these perceptions

influenced your ability to develop leadership skills? Probing Questions?

Question 3. Based on your lived experiences, describe any home country cultural

influences that supported your leadership development in the United States. Probing

Questions?

Question 4. Based on your lived experiences, what are the personal supports that

allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders? Probing Questions?

Question 5. Based on your lived experiences, what are the professional supports

that allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders? Probing

Questions?

Question 6. Based on your lived experiences, what leadership traits must

immigrant women in the United States develop? Probing Questions?

Research Reflections

163

APPENDIX C INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS

South America, Argentina

Alright, so all of the questions will be based on your lived experiences. So not

necessarily what you’ve read or you know, through somebody else’s life. It’s

basically what you’ve experienced personally, professionally, etc.

Understood.

Question #1: Based on your lived experiences, describe the perceptions in

Argentina about the role of women as leaders.

The perception of Argentina, in Argentina or in the United States?

In Argentina. So as in your home country.

As leaders. Well, currently we do have a female president. We have had female

presidents in the past. We had Isabel Peron. We had Evita Peron. So, and now

we have Cristina Kirchner. So definitely at that level, I don’t see that there is a

problem with leadership. Like they look at a person and they feel that that person

has the capacity to lead a country and they accept it. And I think that people see,

these people that I just mentioned as caring individuals and that’s why they like

them as presidents.

Oh interesting. And so would they elect a male individual who is a caring

individual too? I mean is there a gender bias of some sort because…?

I don’t think there is a gender bias. I think that definitely people want someone

that is caring. But women have a particular way, especially these women that I

just mentioned, have a particular way to persuade the population or talk to them

or connect with them. You know, they are mothers, they are wives, they are

sisters. It’s just, I think that the motherhood is viewed differently from the

fatherhood, you know. And – and I think that it has something to do with that.

164

Now, would it be a man and a woman with the same skill set? I’m not sure I

have, you know, information to say yeah, they would vote a woman versus a man

considering that they would have the same skills.

Interesting. So the notion of machismo, for example, and men being sort of

governed by a woman, you don’t think it’s applicable, necessarily, in

Argentina?

Nnnn - I don’t see that – I don’t see that applicable. They are more, you know,

the ones that oppose in this case, the current president, they are upset about

things that a male could have done too. So at no point they say oh, because she’s

a woman, I don’t like her. Or because she’s a woman she cannot lead or she

doesn’t understand this portion you know of the government. I don’t see the

machismo getting into that. I think the machismo works at lower levels. Not a

level when - she’s the President. She’s got to be good. It’s so when this is my

wife; she shouldn’t be doing XY and Z because she’s my wife. So all of the

sudden they implement this class level and the President could be at a very

different level than a wife or a daughter or a sister.

Yeah, and you mentioned Eva Perone, Don’t Cry for me Argentina.

Fabulous. It would nice. Saw it on Broadway. Fabulous.

And Madonna did a great job.

Yes, oh my gosh. Yes, yes.

Talking about female leaders.

Question #2: Alright, again, based on your lived experiences, how have these

perceptions influenced your ability to develop leadership skills?

Well, I definitely think that you know when you see…it doesn’t matter what

category you put yourself, you know. If you put yourself in the category of

women or you put yourself in the category of business people, or you put yourself

you know in any area. I think that examples definitely encourage you to – to

aspire to more. You can say, “Well, if this person can be a President and she’s a

female, I can do it too.” Well, maybe I’m not going to be the President of

Argentina, but maybe I’m going to be the president of my company. Or maybe

165

I’m going to be, I have one of my clients, she always mentions to me you know

when she comes to prepare her taxes, she said, “I’m wondering if I’m going to

see your name on the next ballot as our Mayor for Colorado Springs.” You

know, it’s pretty funny that people really look at you and said, well, if you can

manage this company, can you actually get out of this company? Be part of the

government and be a leader?

So yes, I think that regardless if I agree with the political views that the

Kirchner’s and the Perone’s have, they are leaders. They are women that made

it to an incredible level. You know we have a few other Presidents. We have,

what - a Chilean President is also a female. Brazil. So hmm sometimes…

Costa Rica.

Costa Rica, is it too?

Yeah. I still question why the U. S. hasn’t got into that. And I’m not sure, you

know, I – I know why. When we have seen, we’re seeing or we are labeled as

third world countries, yet I feel like that we’re more advanced in some of those

areas as the United States. Interesting.

I talk with my students about this all the time. I literally pull up slides of

how many developing countries have women leaders. It’s, I think in the last

count was something like 28.

So which is, you know, is significant. I mean you look and say wow. Developing

countries.

How come we are not there yet? So yes, the answer is definitely all these

examples. Again, Evita Perone, Isabel Perone, Cristina Kirchner and all the

other female Presidents, you look at them and you say, “Well, they’re leading a

country, so at least I should be able to lead this.” And so definitely, definitely,

they have inspired me. Yes.

Tell me, I forgot to ask, how long have you been here and for what reason

did you come?

Very good. 25 years.

166

You’ve been here 25 years.

Yes, on October 2013, it was my 25th

anniversary in the United States. And I

came here because I marry an American.

You married an American.

Yep.

Did you meet the American in Argentina?

I met the American in Argentina. Yes. Yes I did.

Ah, so you came here together?

Exactly.

So you came for marriage or…?

Yes, yes exactly.

Question #3: Describe any home country cultural influences that supported

your leadership development here.

Home country. Hmm. Well, I think that from – from very young I was taught the

relationship between work and money. You work, you have money. You don’t

work, you have no money. And I wish I could quote - I’m not very good with the

Bible, but I just read this in the book I’m reading now and it had that - that

scripture that said something, you don’t work, you don’t eat. Um and I think that

that has been probably the most um important value that I was able to bring to the

U. S.

So when I moved to the United States, um it didn’t take any time for me to go find

work. So in Argentina, my last job was designing houses. I worked for a

construction company and I was a technical drafter. And I was able to design

houses and – and do everything that I needed to do because I supported an

architect and a civil engineer. And when I came to the United States, um the first

job I got was a volunteer at a hospital. And two months later, I get a job at

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McDonald’s. And so imagine the level of how I went down from being designing

a house all of the sudden to work at McDonald’s flipping hamburgers.

So – so but there is a value when it comes in. It’s like you don’t work, you don’t

eat. You don’t work, you don’t have no money. So – so I think that the value; the

most important thing has been that; that I always work. I always work. I worked

since I’m 13.

And is that a sort of a family value and just – sort of to the next question –

but is that a family value? You mentioned scripture. Is that a religious sort

of…?

No, it’s a family value. It’s a family value. I’m just fascinated by you know the

scripture sometimes because you know it seems to tie a lot of, you know, the

things that we live day to day that you know sometimes it’s written a little bit

more difficult to understand sometimes you know in the scripture. But then all of

the sudden you look at the thing and say wow, this means this.

And so, to me, it’s a family value. My father and my mother, the best gift that

they’ve given me was the value to learn to work. You know they taught me how to

work. Education was not as important, but it was work.

So yes, so I think that part of the success of, of you know, that I’ve had in the

United States is because I don’t look at what work I need to go do; I just go do it

because I know that it is gonna produce money.

Even if it’s volunteer in this case.

Exactly. So I knew that I needed to learn English. So I knew that I needed to get

out of my house. I knew that I had to learn how to drive in the United States. I

knew that I had to learn how to go to places. My husband had a job. He was

student too, so the time was very limited. I didn’t have someone coaching me 24

hours and say, oh, well go here, go there. So I had to do it on my own.

So that’s one. Definitely, like I said, a connection between work and money.

Learning to work. And yeah, sometimes the reward is not money. You know

sometimes the reward is helping other people. I’ve done a lot of volunteer work.

So not always is connected to money, but you do need money to at least cover

your basic expenses. And – and we don’t…it’s a value in my family, we don’t

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believe in handouts. We don’t believe in government help. We don’t believe in

food stamps. We don’t believe in any of that. That has never been a question.

Like if – if I don’t have anything to eat, do I go to the government and ask for food

stamps? No, because it was always something to eat because all of us always

work.

The person I interviewed this morning said almost exactly the same things.

Almost exactly the same things.

Well there. You’re starting to find your common traits, huh? There you go!

Yes, exactly right. Yeah, it’s very exciting.

Question #4: Again, based on your lived experiences, what are the personal

supports that have allowed you to develop as a leader here?

Personal supports meaning like people…

And you mentioned your parents.

Okay definitely. So my parents taught me how to work, definitely. I think that you

have to place yourself somewhere in the scheme of life and say, okay, I either -

both directions – one, I know more than others, but I know less than others. So

the ability to connect with people that know more than me, so I can learn from

there. So mentors.

When I have to make big decisions in my business, I don’t have a Board of

Directors, but I do have three or four people that I can go and talk to them and –

and I’m prepared to get the good and the ugly from them. And I have made really

good decisions – and based on that support. So mentors. It could have been

people that are good friends, uh people that are business acquaintances. They

are um family, unfortunately, I can’t mention much of that because of the – the

difference in culture, it’s very difficult to go and explain to my sister, my father

and say well, I have this business problem, especially my sister now has become a

business owner, but you know, in the last few years. But…

But she’s in Argentina.

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But she’s in Argentina. But people, really, I can talk to them about business

issues or problems or growth or whatever it may be. But the person that sold me

this business, she’s a mentor of mine. So I still keep in touch with her and really,

I don’t even look sometimes at are these people smarter than me or do they

have…? I mean some of them don’t even have business, but they have very

different perspective. So uh yes, so, but what we cannot forget is that, again, I

know more than others, so I also have to be available for those that come to me

with viewing me as a sounding board.

Yes, the notion of paying it forward.

Exactly. It’s paying it forward and so yeah, so I think the support has come a lot

from – from people, warm people. People that I can touch and talk to them. A lot

of reading. The only type of reading I do is personal development. I don’t read

novels. I don’t read you know fiction. I don’t read any of that. I’m not interested

- nothing. I fall asleep very quickly.

But I do have you know a few good books that sometimes I probably read them

over and over again just because they help me be a better person and a better

professional, a better business owner. So.

Question #5: Good. So along the same lines, what are the professional

supports that have allowed you to develop as a leader? And so you’ve mentioned

some of the mentors you’ve had, but things like have you taken any training or any

opportunities like that that have been helpful for you?

Well, I, as a small business owner, I say the best training, the reason why I am

successful at what I do, the best training came from corporate America. I work

14 years in corporate America. And…

In the United States?

In the United States. I work for [1234]. I work for [5678]. And I worked seven

years for each of them. And the integrity of these companies and the way some of

them did things right and others didn’t so right. So it doesn’t matter how you

learn it, but for example [1235], it was a fantastic company. It was a good place

to work. It had customer service. Teach people how to hold each other

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accountable. So that really you never had to go and talk to HR or to a manager

or whatever because you had a problem with a coworker. You were encouraged

to resolve that problem with that person. So that type of confrontation, if you

want to mention it, but it was – it was you know personal accountability.

Organizational skills. How to lead meetings. How to manage your time. All

those things is something that I learned from corporate America. So they have

been the best trainers I’ve had uh because you know because of the different

components, and the pressure and the stress that you work with, how they teach

you to manage all that.

So trainings. Well, I also went to college. Went to school and so there is a lot of

you know marketing and financial you know type of learnings from there.

Organizational management skills that I gained from a college degree. I may,

from time to time, I try to do once a year, um sometimes twice a year or

sometimes you know it depends how time allows me, but I do take a lot of

financial courses. I like taking financial courses. Personal, because first they

help me. First it was to get out of debt; now it’s to create wealth. And then how I

can teach other people how to you know, again, the connection with one of the

first few questions that you asked me, the connection between work and money.

The connection between work and food. You know, so we teach people to be self-

sufficient then – then all this government programs should be going away, or at

least should be just working for the original intention they had, which is help

people that you know were going through you know stressful situation. Short

term help. Not something that is I don’t feel like going to work, so I’m gonna go

and apply for unemployment.

So, to me, it’s very important that the – the trainings I take, that the – the

education, the time that I allocate for training and education, is not only to

improve in my life, but improve the ones, the other lives. You know, other people

need to get a benefit out of my learn.

What did you do for those two organizations that you mentioned?

For [5678], I did, first I was in sales, customer service, sales, marketing type of

role and then I move into the IT Project Management area. And for [1234],

that’s all I did was IT project management.

And did you manage people in those capacities?

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The first - in the first company I did, yes.

You did. Okay.

Yes.

Question #6: Last question.

Oh my goodness.

How about that? What leadership traits must immigrant women in the

United States develop?

What I say that they should have to develop?

Based on your experiences.

Okay. Well, I definitely think that language is by far one of the first ones. You

have to be able to speak the language to start with basic communication to start

working your way up in – in - in the language world. Because the more you’re

able to communicate, I think the more successful you are. My – my success, I, if

we look at a chart for me in my 25 years in the United States, it’s always upward.

There is not, oh, I went down. The only reason that it went down was because of

a health issue I had, but it had nothing to do with my capacity or my commitment

to – to constant improvement. So if you commit yourself to constant

improvement, so language is definitely has to be one of them. So always learn

new words, read, whatever you need to do, keep going. And when you master you

know English, the go find another language to learn. I’m a big believer of

languages and communication. So definitely one has to be that one to survive.

Two; we are so blessed to live in the United States because there is so much stuff,

junk, that it’s already remove that we have to deal with in our countries and we

do not have to deal with here.

Such as?

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Such as machismo. One of them. Definitely. You know that machismo and – and

the woman was made to have children and – and clean houses and do laundry

and, you know. Get out of that.

You know I just visited my family for several days and they do not understand why

I’m such a terrible cook. When in my family everyone - everyone is a terrific

cook. So I just don’t cook. And it’s not that I’m rebel or I’m like, you know, I’m

not going to do this just because that, you know, says that’s what women should

do. No. I just – I know that my brain is wired for other things.

So the third thing is, you know, identify what your brain is wired for. And – and

go for it. Because you know women immigrant; the problem with us is that

sometimes even I’ve seen from American men, well, I’m gonna go and get myself

a nice whatever, you know, Vietnamese or Russian or Argentinean, or whatever, a

lady because they know how to cook or they know how to clean, or I’ve heard that

they take care of their husbands. What does that mean? I don’t understand when

you say “take care of your husband.” Well, I don’t understand what that means.

That – that doesn’t exist in my vocabulary. Okay. A husband and a wife should

be taking care of each other, period. And I don’t care how that is, it’s just

between those two people.

So immigrant women should definitely learn the language, you know figure out

what they’re wired for and understand that we already have. Again, this blessing

that a lot of stuff has been removed that we don’t have to worry about. So like

you said, one example, machismo.

Another example; even though we’re talking about equal pay, I’ve never had to

deal with that problem. I get paid as much as my coworkers and what males get

paid. So a topic that I prefer not to discuss sometimes because I get into political

discussions that I - sometimes I don’t have a lot of knowledge in and maybe I

don’t have a lot of experience to support my theory. But I feel that if you’re good

at something you’re gonna get paid.

You know this glass ceiling type of thing, you know, I have gone up in um

corporate America as well as in my small business as far as I want to be. So no

one has ever set any glass ceiling on me. So I don’t understand the theory. I

don’t understand when people come to me and say, well, you know, I can’t move

up anymore. Well, you know, because of the glass ceiling. I really don’t

understand the theory.

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So don’t limit yourself with whatever cultural beliefs we bring with us because we

tend to limit ourselves and you know, well, in my country, things are done this

way. So, if you’re gonna to learn a language, learn quickly after that the culture

that you’re in because I was led to believe in the first 40 years of living in the

United States that school was very difficult. That you couldn’t go to college.

That you had to learn English first and all that, and that was just a marriage by

convenience, because as quickly as I learned to work, then the person that I marry

to says, well, I’m going to go to school because you have to learn English. So,

but I already know English because I’m an American. Plus, I already know the

system.

So, for 3 ½ years, I used to support a U. S. citizen that spoke English all his life

that could have work and could have done a lot of other things and it was not

until several years later when I enroll in school, that I finish my career in 3 ½

years, a career in information systems which is not the most difficult, but it’s not

the easiest one either, while working full-time so and paying a mortgage, buying a

house. And I did all that at the same time.

So I was led to believe by someone else that school was difficult, that, you know,

you have to think twice about it. So if you wanna go to college, you know go and

try yourself. You know. Go enroll in the class and you figure it out. So what if

you – you flunk and you get an F and you got to do it again. So what? It doesn’t

matter. But you – you be the judge instead of allowing other people.

I’m not saying; I’m not trying to you know portray myself as a victim because I

am not, neither I’m trying to say oh well never go and ask an opinion. No, go and

ask opinions and what do you think? I’m thinking about doing this. And take

several opinions, but you’re the final decision maker over what you do and don’t

let others, you know, decide for you.

Yes, if you were going with the flow, I suppose you wouldn’t be here.

Exactly. Yeah - no I wouldn’t be here.

You’d be a good cook.

Yeah, exactly. Probably be a good cook. I would have gotten, definitely a got

married, but, you know, I don’t have children so I’d probably, because you know,

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it’s not very good, you know, in Argentina, you’re marry and you don’t have kids.

What’s wrong? You know, and it usually tends to be, it’s a problem with the

woman, with the female body rather than with the male body. So it’s always this

– this things that you constantly have to prove that, you know, you don’t have to

prove here.

So we’re very blessed to be in the United States. United States is by far, I have

been in 35 countries and the United States is, by far, the best country in the world.

And I’m gonna to stick to that one. I don’t care what people have to say.

Have you lived or traveled in those places?

I travel – I have traveled. I have worked in places. Um I have done cross

cultural projects with the companies that I work. Um so, you know, I have friends

in different countries and it’s like, you know, you get to learn a lot about how

other people live and you’re still realizing how bless we are you know here. And,

- and again, it’s a matter of yeah, we have, you know we do have obstacles

everywhere. You want to start a business. Well, you gotta go get a license. You

gotta go get training. You gotta go and do this. You gotta go do that. I

understand that you have to get all that. But it’s still possible. And you still have

the freedom to go do it. In other countries you don’t. In other countries you have

money, you go to school. Argentina used to be one of those until not too long ago.

Which you had money, you went to school. So now you have 3% of the population

going um to college to university and the poor get poorer and – and gets less

educated and then it gets managed, the country gets managed by just rich people.

And it gets managed by educated people.

So – so here we have the freedom to go to school and say, “Oh, well, I don’t have

money to go to school.” But you know what? Go and get another job. Go get a

loan. Go get you know a scholarship somewhere. There are so many resources

that, you know, that’s why I really think that, you know, that’s why immigrants

tend to be very successful in this country because we don’t have those resources

in our countries and all of the sudden we’re finding that we have them here. Like

wow. Okay, let’s take advantage of this.

So the inability is it’s an ignorance or lack of motivation more than it is lack

of resources and opportunities.

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Oh, completely. Completely. No one can come and tell me that I – I didn’t

succeed in the United States or you know, I couldn’t do this. You either lazy or

you don’t look hard enough. I’m sorry. I have to be as blunt as I have to be on

that one. There is no way anyone would ever convince me that in this country you

cannot do something. You can be anything you want to be. This is the only

country that you can get to do that. You can be anything you want to be.

Even though as we talked at the very beginning of the conversation, that in

many developing countries, women have been the #1 leader and here, we…

Exactly.

There’s kind of an irony there.

It’s an irony. It is. It is an irony because where, you know, where is the problem?

I – I am very curious about the next election to see who is going to become…we

have had some candidates, but they haven’t make it you know to the top. So I’m

very curious to see what is going to happen the next few years. But yeah, so it is

an irony. It is an irony.

A couple of things. One is you say “we,” like you consider yourself an

American.

Oh definitely. Definitely.

Do you consider yourself Argentinean-American, or I mean…when

somebody asks…

No, I’m an American.

When somebody asks you where you’re from, if you’re traveling someplace

other than Argentina, what’s your response?

My response is I am from Argentina, but I live in the United States. Yeah.

Okay. So you are very specific.

Because I was born…so, exactly. Very specific. Yeah. But it’s a long answer.

Because, you know, or sometime it depends because if people say, you know,

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where are you coming from? Well, I’m coming from the United States. Yeah, but

are you from there? So if people ask clarifying questions then, then you know.

Then you realize sometimes the intent of the question. People ask me the

same thing. And I think it’s because of the way I look, not necessarily the

way I talk. They’ll say, and I realize, okay, the intention is country of origin.

Yeah, exactly.

That I live in Pueblo, Colorado.

Exactly. So no, the answer, it depends in the context of the question and you

know and the situation, but usually it’s yeah, I was born in Argentina, but I live in

the United States. You know, and considering that I’ve lived in the United States

25 years, that is – that is more than half my life. So – so now it’s maybe the first

few years was, well, I’m from Argentina. I’ve lived here for five years. You know

you don’t quite feel the roots, you know. They’re not very deep. But as the years

keep going, you know, and you start developing, you know, relationships and now

you have years of experience in a particular topic, you have your own business,

you know, like someone comes to me and says, will you move to another town?

Well, no, because my resources are here, my roots are here through my business.

Could I move to another state and create another business similar to the one I

have? Of course. I’ve no doubt. You know, I have no doubt. But that’s not the

point.

Starting over, yeah.

Exactly. So, you know, you start growing more in to your roots and now, you

know, I – I definitely consider myself an American because I am an American

citizen. So, you know, when I did my oath, you know, you do give up your country

of nationality and your country of origin. So.

Argentineans are Americans.

Exactly. And that’s the other thing too. That was a very interesting conversation.

It defines the U. S. as American, so.

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Yeah, I had an interesting conversation when I lived in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

It was like, you know, which it got defined by the Webster’s dictionary that let’s

go figure out who’s an American. An American, the first definition of an

American is a citizen or resident of South and North America. And then

American, North Americans have adopted American as their, you know, label of

citizenship. But yeah, so.

The other question I wanted to ask about, you mentioned a sister. So was it

just two of you in your family?

Yes, just two of us. Yes, yes, my sister…

Okay, and she has stayed home and…

She has stayed home. She’s married. She has three kids, six grandchildren. So

and in business.

And in business. You said recently she started a business.

Recent in the last few years. Yes, yes. In the last few years. So three or four

years I think.

And so did she, well, do you think…well, it’s not relevant because it’s not in

the United States, but you wonder how much sort of family influences on her

starting her business.

Well, she started with her husband, so it’s kind of, I think that they saw a need

and they did it. So, but it wasn’t just her business. So she’s the one that manages

it and works it most in that business. But – but I think that it was more of a family

decision that the need was there. So.

Okay. That’s it for my questions. That’s it. Can you think of anything that

I should have asked but didn’t?

No because I didn’t know where your questions were gonna to come from, so and

that’s why I didn’t try to probe or understand what was going to go on before.

But eh you know, I – I think that you asked all the questions and I think that I

answered, you know, most of it. But a lot of people, you know, sometimes ask me,

do I miss home. You know. Do I miss my culture? Do I miss, you know… and

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again, I think it’s as grown up as you are or how much relationships you have

grown with this country. So you know people say, “Do you miss Argentina?”

No. I go and visit because I – I miss people.

So let’s say that the people that I care about – sister, you know nephews and niece

and the relatives move, all of them would move to Peru, I would probably go to

Peru and visit them. I don’t know that there is something Argentina for me to go

visit. So, again, it’s a wonderful country, but I have been in many wonderful

countries. All countries have beautiful things to offer to their visitors or their

habitants. So, you know, do I miss home? Well, be more specific. What is home?

Is it Argentina as a country, Argentina as a culture? Ah you know, do I miss, you

know, a particular food? Do I miss my family? What – what is your question you

know? And so that’s something that a lot of people ask me, you know.

Do you go back often? Well, as often as I can make it – you know. Does that

influence anything on how I run my business or how I live my life here? Yes, one

makes me much more thankful. It makes me very aware of, again, the blessings

that we have here. Just talking comparing country to country or – or culture to

culture. All this is like wow. You know it’s a reminder.

And that’s not relevant to what’s happened economically in the last few

years. You’re talking about even when Argentina was…

Booming.

Yes. So irrelevant of that.

Yes, yes, yes. You know, people in Argentina sometimes ask me, “Well, do you

see yourself ever living back in Argentina?” And I have two answers. One, yes,

you know, why not if I ever have sufficient money to keep a house here and go

back and forth. Not living forever coming back. But two - one of my favorite

answers, and I stop using it a few years ago because I think it offended a few

people, but it’s like I prefer to be a maid in the United States than a millionaire in

Argentina.

How interesting.

And I feel it. That’s the way I feel. So I - I think that it’s – it’s just, again, the

opportunities. There’s so many things here that we can just go and grab. They’re

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there for us already. We don’t have to fight for, you know. And we’re talking

about transportation. We’re talking about parks. We’re talking about you know

even you know the class that actually [D] and I took together, you know, [1256].

You spend a year with different areas of – of your community, you know.

I did that for Pueblo. Fantastic.

Fantastic. It opens up your mind, like wow you know. Try to be homeless for a

day. Oh really. Be homeless for a day. Figure that one out. Eh and that was

tough. That was a tough one.

You know, so – so there are so many things, you know, education, transportation.

Like I said, you know, parks, recreation, uh the ability for you to go to work and

study at the same time. That is not offered in many other countries. You know

you either go to school or you go, or you work. And if you work, hmm sometimes,

you know, you can take a couple of classes. You know, the education system is so

behind in our countries that, you know, you go to school for nine months and then

you study and you cram everything and then you go and take an exam. And – and

here it’s, you know, well we learned three chapters. Let’s take a quiz. We

learned three more chapters. Let’s take, you know, a midterm exam. Oh, well,

now we learned 12 chapters in this book now. Let’s take the final exam. So how,

you know, how you go step by step learning this information and slowly start you

know putting things in practice.

So, I mean there are…I have hundreds of examples.

Does your family get upset when you say some of these things? Like the

comment about rather be a maid here than a millionaire there.

Well, yes. I mean not upset, but they really don’t comprehend it. They don’t

understand because why? You know, being, you know, doing housekeeping in the

United States is not the same as doing housekeeping in Argentina. So, again, the

lack of understanding of both cultures, they tend to say, well, why would you

prefer to be a maid. But – but it’s the freedom. It’s all the intangible things that

they don’t get to see unless they have come and visit here and live here that, you

know; a maid has a car. And a maid has, you know, health insurance and a maid

can you know, take care of your children and probably have, maybe a modest life.

I don’t know. I know a lot of housekeepers that make really good money.

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I do too. Including ours.

Yeah. They make really good money.

My husband and I, you know, we do the math and think, she’s doing okay.

She’s doing okay. Yeah.

Isn’t that something? Yeah.

So you know, so then that is what I say. Not talking about the cleaning; I’m

talking about the everything is just so poor, you know.

Sort of a quality of life in a way.

Quality of life. Exactly. Exactly, you know. So yeah, that’s why I say I stop kind

of using that answer because I know that I have offended a few people, but I

really don’t know sometimes how to get the point across. That - you know. I

don’t want to, you know, live in an underdeveloped country which I have to

constantly fight. You know, I just go back and see you know my friends in

Argentina which are similar ages of mine and I see where they’re at. And – and

year after year is always something. “Well, I started this, you know, course at the

university, but then the teachers didn’t get paid enough money, so then they went

on strike.” And we lost a whole year because if you don’t take exams, you’re in

this particular 20 days, now you don’t get to take exams until next year.

So, okay. Well, time out. No. So now when I thought that one of my friends had

finished up some sort of studies that she was trying to do, she’s stuck in the same

as she was a year and a half ago. Why? You know. So – so that’s what I mean,

you know, when I talk about it, the benefits of the United States is that – that

support system we have that you know we don’t have, which is…you know so we

give up, probably, the support of the family to replace it with the support of a – of

a system.

Interesting.

And because not all of us get to travel with our families and live here with our

families, you know. I don’t know the other people that you have interviewed if

they have, you know, husbands from their home country and children and all that.

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Okay, but you still have parents. I mean it’s impossible to move your parents and

your cousins and your, you know, everyone that is – is your family.

None of them do. Husbands, but that’s it.

Exactly. None of us do. Most of us move here by ourselves or with a husband.

So – so you know it’s interesting because then you say well, yeah, you know if you

give up this family support and caring and loving and getting together every

Sunday for pasta or whatever the culture may be, but then I have this. And in my

experience, because of…and I think it’s a combination because the resources are

there for all of us to use. So it has to take the initiative of the individual to go and

grab that opportunity and – and make it happen. So because if not, all in America

will be successful. All of us, you know, the resources would just be there and all

of the sudden, magically, we become successful you know.

So it obviously takes an individual to have that initiative to go and look for that

resource or that opportunity and make it work. But that opportunity and – and if

you know how to use it, and, again, always have to think about that what you’re

learning and – and what you’re doing, it benefits you because you have to eat,

you have to pay rent, you have to pay, you know, your car payment and gas and

whatever it may be, your basic needs - but it has to benefit others. And when you

start working and that you know, I don’t know how to call it, but in that set of

mind, let’s put it that way, then that creates more resources and creates more you

know for me, a big resource is money. I like money. I like what money does. So

resources like that now help me travel to my country more often than I ever

thought I could do it. And I can help them more financially if I need to. Um and I

can…so, you know, so when you give up this support system and you create

another support system, which it could be seen as cold and lonely. They say,

“Oh, you live by yourself in the United States, you know, don’t you miss

Christmas? Don’t you miss family?” Of course you do. You’re a human being.

But then, you know, it comes like well if I would live there with this family, what

would my life be versus what I have now? So.

Yes, you give up some things to gain others.

Exactly. And sometimes those others you know help you gain things you go back

to see your culture, your family, you know.

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Yeah, and when you talk about money, the sort of trickle down of that, you

pay more taxes, you volunteer in your community, you help…it is sort of this

cumulative and you refer to it as a support network. Yes. And it just…

It is. It is. I mean you pay more taxes. You have better roads to drive in. You

have nice parks. And – and you have health insurance.

Better police. Better this. Better that.

And police and all that.

Yes, of course.

I never – I don’t understand why people have such a big trouble with paying more

taxes. I never vote for that. Oh, cut taxes. No, you know what. Let’s – let’s make

our politicians responsible to create budget and use the money correctly.

Yes, it’s interesting because you’re the second person who’s said that and

I’m not sure that the other time it was actually being recorded. I may have

stopped the recording. I don’t remember that. I have to look through the

transcripts. But it’s kind of interesting, this notion of paying taxes if you feel

like the taxes are being responsibly used, right. Like you said, good roads,

safe communities, this; wow. Wow, wow, wow. Yeah.

Again, if we all give. The problem that I think a lot of people have is that

sometimes they do get frustrated with seeing that well, I’m paying but that person

is not paying. And yes, we do have to fix that because I – I do believe too. I

believe that, again, you know, government problem, government programs are by

far you know one thing that probably about this country I…you know someone

said, “Well what would you like to fix about the United States?” Government

assisted programs.

Yeah.

The rest, I think, is pretty perfect. But, you know, again, how do you… you know

it starts with people and people being honest and people having the heart to say,

you know what, I need food stamps because I’m going through this particular

situation now. But here’s my plan on how I’m going to get out of this. Because…

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And how much of it is a sense of responsibility to the community and to

others, right, so that if you do have a plan, okay, I will get off assistance by

doing these things, then that assistance helps the next person who really

needs it.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. That’s why I think it should become loans, not - not just

free giveaway. It’s a loan. You can pay it in 30 years. I don’t care. You know,

actually, you just pay the principal. We’re not even going to charge you interest.

But you get six months of food stamps. I’m gonna help you - you know get a job,

get a babysitter for your children, whatever; whatever you need to keep moving in

the right direction. But this is a loan. You pay it back. So. There you have it.

There you have it. I’m going to end the recording.

[END OF AUDIO.]

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South America, Colombia

So when did you come to the United States and why?

I came to the United States in 1991, no no ’81; in ’81. And at the time, the main

reason was to give our children the opportunity to learn English since they were

little. And the other thing that was a lot for security reasons, at the time, my

country was in such a bad turmoil, and that was the main reason why.

And you’re from?

Colombia.

Colombia. Okay. Alright. So all of the questions that I’ll ask you are based

on your own what we’re calling lived experiences, your personal experiences and

professional experiences.

Question #1: Describe the perceptions in your home country about the role

of women as leaders.

Okay, it has improve a lot. What’s happened in the past even that I have shown

very good administrative position, but it was hard at that time for them to hire a

woman for those positions. Right now, that is not the case. It has improve a lot

and could be a man or the woman and it will be the same.

But as you were growing up, what was your idea about women leaders?

It was so much like if few personalities in the world - not even in my own country,

you know, as leaders, that was the situation. It was all handled by men and

hardly…I worked, for example, one time in one company and it was only one

woman in the administration position and the rest were all male. And – and that

was a company that have like over 1,000 employees.

And that was in Colombia?

Yeah, that was in Colombia.

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Gosh, okay. And I forgot to ask, how old were you when you came to the

United States?

I was… okay, before we came as a student, but at this time I was 34.

Okay. But you came before to study and went back home?

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Okay. Alright.

Question #2: Based, again, on your lived experiences, how have these

perceptions influenced your ability to develop leadership skills? So the perceptions

in your home country, did they influence your ability?

As a matter of fact, in - I have, hmm you know, my goal was always to do my job

well done, but eh and I have very good positions that I got because I did a good

job, but it was not because I was trying to be a leader. You know, I – I enjoy my

job and working with people and having employees, but that was not my goal. I

have been happy having people under me and not having anybody under me.

You know, it always have been just my job, basically, I mean, that’s what…

Yeah.

Yeah I got to have some like, for example, I am, before my first job, really, I have

an administrative position I was 29 years old. And I start working as a manager

of one of the branches of the savings and loan bank. And then like four months

later I was promoted to be the assistant manager for the regional office. I have

around 50 people under me and I mean I like my position. I like my job. And,

you know, I love, at that time, the people that I work with, but as I say, it never

was my – my goal to have people under me. You know, I just, that happened.

And when I went back to…when we came to the States and when, to study, and

then when we went back to Colombia, I have a chance to be a, the sales manager

for a new shopping center, a developer of a new shopping center. And at that

time, we were five and they were under me. You know, at that time, I kind of felt

that I prefer my own pressure to have the pressure of other people selling and

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you know, that was a hard time. But I really enjoy my job, so, you know. And I

always have a goal. No matter what you do, you have to do it right. Yeah, that’s

- that have been my goal.

Since I have been in the States, I haven’t had any administrative positions. I

have been independent real estate agent since ’91. And I got the license in

Georgia. Then 10 years later we moved to Texas and I got my real estate license

too. And now, I’m doing that in Colorado and, you know, I really love that.

And as I say, I prefer to have my own pressure and handling that; than handling

some other people pressure.

I understand.

Question #3: Describe any home country cultural influences that supported

your leadership development here. It could be family or professional experiences

that you’ve had there.

Hmm I will say very much they were professional experiences. And I was in

managing real estate company there too. It was a time before we first moved here

in ’81. I was the manager for a - an investment company. It was a real estate

investment company. And I think that that has to do a lot for what all my

background have been because I really enjoy that part. Even I did a lot of

commercial and is not as personalized you know like it will be a residential, but I

think that was what mainly influenced me, that job. Yeah.

Okay, so your…in terms of home country cultural influences, are there any

things in particular that you could think of other than just kind of that

professional…?

Yeah profession? No really. Yeah, no. Not really. My mother was in real estate,

but I – I never felt that as an influence in my decision. It just happened that I end

in that business because when I work with the savings and loan bank, I have to do

a lot with the credit department and home financing and all of that, and that’s

how I got in to that.

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Question #4: So the next question has to do with personal supports that

allowed you to develop as a leader here. So you just mentioned your mother, for

example, and the fact that she worked. Was that typical that a woman…?

No. No it wasn’t. She got to a point when we were already kind of growing up,

you know, that she wanted to do something and - and that was not very common.

But as I say, I never… maybe I - I haven’t realized that but I didn’t feel that was

an influence on me. But I have to say all my friends now are kind of retired and

enjoying… and I still enjoying to working, you know. Yeah.

Back to your mother’s working, so you say it wasn’t common. So you were

how old when she started working?

I think that I was very much in the… early 20. I would say about 21 or something

like that. Yeah.

Okay. Did any of your friend’s mothers work at that time?

No.

None of them.

No, none of them. She just start getting in to that, you know, and enjoying…she

used to sell farms and I think that a lot was, she loved, she was very much an

outdoor person and children was with my father on the weekends going to rivers

and in the meantime, my mother have that kind of mentality that she start looking

at the farms that was for sale and thinking how she can offer that to someone and

that’s how she got in to that. And people admire her very much and it’s amazing

because all her friends are already dead and she’s 91 years old and she’s still

thinking the only thing that I miss is to work.

But as I say, maybe, it kind of influenced me, but I never was like kind of aware,

that that was my influence.

Interesting. Alright.

188

Question #5: Based on your lived experiences, what are the professional

supports that allowed you to develop as leader here? And you did mention like in

the banking business that you became the assistant manager.

Yeah, but you mean what kind of support I have professionally?

Professionally.

I will say just to develop here and to be able to do your job very professional,

there are a lot of institutions or eh like, for example, in Colorado Springs is the

Pikes Peak Association of Realtors and which almost everybody belongs to them.

But I haven’t taken advantage of all the classes that they offer and all the

certification. And I have been always try to take advantage of all the

educational… and yeah, all the education that they offer. Because they are always

very good and some people, I don’t think that they don’t take advantage of that.

And I think that the banks or the mortgage companies, they offer excellent support

to the industry too. Of course, their interest is that they want the business, but in

the meantime, they offer all kind of classes, even for free. The title companies are

an excellent support too. It’s amazing the support that we get from the title

companies. They have all kind of education.

Now, does your, the real estate company that you work with require you to

take these courses?

No.

No.

There are some courses that are mandatory by the state and the company that I

work for, it - they require a training when you join the company and they provide

that – they provide that training, which is wonderful. I mean it’s just nine weeks;

nine weeks every week, a whole day of class.

Oh wow.

Yeah, plus homework and reading, and yeah. But the state require a lot. You

need to keep up with that but I always take all the extra curriculum. That have

189

been…I haven’t, in the past, I have been in the industry so many years, right now

I have a need to take one of those classes, but in the past every time that I was

kind of getting down or thinking, “Oh my God, is this what I want to do?” Or

“Where are the business?” I used to take always one motivation class. I may

have to take some in the future, but at this point I haven’t needed.

But yeah, it’s a lot of support in the industry.

Do you feel like these classes, the title companies for example, or the banks, if

you tell them that you’ve taken these classes, does it help or does it make any

difference?

To get business, you mean?

Uh huh.

No, it doesn’t help to get business. It help you like, for example like, I took a – a

certification class for militaries to help military people. And I have done

everything that comes available to do that because this is very much a military

town. And eh of course, I can apply that to anybody, you know, because it’s very

much service and relocation, but that’s – that’s pretty much what this town move,

you know.

Have you ever felt any sort of bias or any sort of discrim-…?

Discrimination?

Yes, any kind of discrimination or sort of negative feelings…?

No. I have to take that out of my mind when I first came to the States because I

went to live in Georgia. And in Georgia, they are pretty racist. And I was the only

foreign realtor in the industry. And at the beginning when I was on floor duty,

and I didn’t know who I was getting, I always felt, you know, maybe this is not the

right person. I kind of felt a couple of times that they couldn’t understand me.

And it doesn’t happen now, but in the past, especially when I was in Georgia, and

maybe I was, my English maybe was – I mean I bet it was worse – I used to get

one of the natives from there. I have very good friends in the office and I say,

“You know, I know it’s hard to understand me. You may want this person,” and,

you know, I did that a couple of times.

190

And you know like one time it was a guy with a really southern accent. I knew

that he was pretty country. And I said, “Oh my God, this country guy with me; we

are in the wrong place. Both of us.” And we have in our office, there were two

guys that we used to make fun of them in the office we used to say, “Oh, here are

the two rednecks that we have here.” We used to…they were so nice and they…I

give it to one of them. I said, “You don’t have to give me a referral. You handle

them. You know, just save my life.” And I did that a couple of times. But I mean

nothing – nothing bad, you know. I just realized that they couldn’t…I couldn’t

communicate with them.

So it was a question of communication more than some type of feeling…?

More than discrimination. If I – if I ever was discriminate, I never know. I never

felt discriminate. No. It was only one place, but it wasn’t in real estate. And I

live in Illinois, in Rockford, outside Chicago, and I wasn’t getting any luck in

getting friends. And somebody say, “You know why? It’s because you are

discriminate.” And I said, “Eh, I never thought of that.” You know.

That you’re discriminating?

Yeah. Yeah.

So reverse discrimination.

I don’t know. I say oh. It doesn’t; I mean, I didn’t even, no, that was not the

case. But, yeah.

Interesting. Huh. Very interesting.

No. I never have felt discriminated. Have you?

You know, in Pueblo, maybe, and I don’t know if it’s because, you

know…Pueblo is kind of an interesting place because there are, it’s 57%

Latino or something and specifically of Mexican ethnicity. And I think

maybe some people think I am, maybe, of Mexican ethnicity.

Ah yeah. They get… I have heard, you know, discrimination, you know in the

past, I used to get a lot of question – “Are you in charge – are you in charge with

191

drugs or something coming from Colombia?” And I say, “No; what about you?”

And many times they say, “Why?” And I say, “Because you are from here and

you are the buyers.” You know. I mean why are you asking me? And that used

to be my question.

And I have to tell you, I don’t know if you…I have to tell you one time I went in

Georgia. It was a very good successful real estate office and I went to an

interview with the president of the company. He was supposedly – I say

supposedly – a very smart guy; very well known and whatever. With very good

positions in the past. And I got to…his first question was, “Where are you

from?” And I say, “I’m from Colombia.” And his second question was, “What

does your husband do?” And at that time my husband was working with the

University of Georgia, but you know, my answer was, “Oh, he’s a drug dealer.”

[Laughter.] He thought that that was the funniest thing that he ever heard in his

life. And he said, “You are – you are hired right now.” And he was very funny.

And he used to tell everybody that he never in his whole life had that experience.

But I remember those two questions. He didn’t ask me anything…what did you do

in the past? No. This was the first question, “What does your husband do?”

Well, what did he want to hear - that he was a drug dealer? And it was in ’81

that that’s when the whole mafia was. Yeah.

Well, and the question of where are you from is against the law.

I know. I mean that was the two questions. And, “What does your husband do?”

Yeah. What does that have to with the job that I’m interviewing for?

With the job that I’m going to…I am working there. I’m loving him so much. And

he used to tell every single person this is the interview that I had with her.

That’s a great story.

It’s a great story.

Question #6: And then the last question is what leadership traits must

immigrant women in the United States develop? And, again, based on your

experiences, what do you think are the important traits?

192

I have been finding a lot in education.

Do you mean a formal education or?

Yeah, I mean that they do…that’s your question?

Yeah.

I say teachers. I have – I know a lot of people that are the school teachers and I

have found some that in the medical field.

What are specifically the traits or like personality characteristics that

immigrant women need here in the United States to become leaders? When

you say education, do you mean it’s important that they be educated? Is that

what you mean?

Yeah. Yeah, I misunderstood your question really. Yeah, no. I will say

somebody…I don’t know the right expression for that, but I will say, “Definitely

somebody has to be like a go getter to have a leadership position.” And I admire

so much because no matter what, even if you are a woman from here, you have to

fight – fight your way up. You know, just if you are in a leadership position. And

I think for you being successful here, being a foreign and a woman, you have to

be even more than anybody else. I think that you have to be very, I mean, you

have to be educate definitely. I mean, definitely I think that education means a

lot. But you have to be a go getter and really, yeah, because we all know that

women in the upper position, even that there are many, they have fight their way

up.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And tell me, in the real estate business. I don’t know if

you’ve worked in various offices here in Colorado Springs or not, but have

you ever been asked to maybe like train a new person or help somebody to

develop some of the necessary skills?

I – I used to have that experience in other States in the past that they have asked

me if I could help to train new people. Here, it’s a different world. They don’t

care. And I have been very surprised. I mean wherever I have gone; I have to

find my way because it’s not that much of a team group, a team support. No. And

I am amaze because like now in my office, I mean, down from here, I am not

talking; but now in my office, I have new, there are new people and I always try to

193

talk to them because I suffer so much when I start, that – and I have been finding

out that that’s the way that they feel.

And yeah and in the past, you know they always say oh we have a new agent who

can help? And eh I – I used to help a lot. Right now I’m just still trying to find my

way. Yeah. It’s amazing. Yeah I’m surprised; it’s not that much of a teamwork.

Interesting. So everybody sort of works independently in a way.

Yeah, yeah you can die and nobody knows. Yeah, it’s amazing, it’s the first place

that I found that. And my husband told me that in Illinois it was that way very

much. In Illinois I work; I was importing flower from Colombia and I work a lot

from the internet and you know, phone calls and internet and yeah; but, again,

have the experience there. But here, no. But the other states that I was, they were

very friendly ones, Texas and Georgia. I mean they can say a lot about the south,

but the people in the south are very charming and you know friendly. Yeah.

So in some ways, Colorado Springs has been more challenging for you, then?

Yeah, it really is. I mean, you are alone. You are very much alone. I was going

on vacation and I have a hard time. I mean I keep thinking oh, I’m just going to

leave my business. Fortunately, it was somebody that before I left like a month

before, she say I’m going on vacation, do you mind to take care of my business?

And I say, yeah, if you take care of mine. Yeah, and that’s what I was able to do

it, but yeah.

Wow. That’s very interesting.

Yeah. That’s very much - it’s eh – very - people are nice, but they are no…they

don’t help each other.

I heard one of the new – new person in my office asking somebody she can sit

with her on the listing or something, and she said I’m so busy, I don’t have time

for that.

What does that mean? Sit with her on a listing?

I mean like when you go for the listing presentation, to go and listen what

they…yes, in order to…

194

To learn.

Yeah.

And she wouldn’t?

Yeah. No - she say I won’t.

Wow. And have you done that? Had people go with you?

I haven’t helped – helped anybody, really, because I was trying to survive myself,

you know, I haven’t been with this, with the company just a year. .

Okay.

I mean just a year, but I have to find all my way. And I have, a past experience. I

mean it helped me a lot. But just, but to find the marketing tools and all…the

company offers a lot of marketing tools and eh that’s very helpful. Yeah.

But other than that, you’re sort of independent and here you go.

Yeah, you are independent. Here you go.

Gosh.

Good and bad. You know I’m kinda learning now. Now I kind of enjoy being

independent. Who cares?

And it’s interesting when you say good or bad. In some ways, yeah, it is sort

of if…you are responsible for yourself and...

Yeah, it’s kind of funny because now I - we have a new boss at the office and I

was telling my husband, I say, he’s very nice, but I mean, he even hasn’t have a

meeting with me. And who cares? I’m so happy that he hasn’t have a meeting for

me or asking me what are your goals? I mean he’s missing something because

sometimes people need to be pushed a little bit. But I’m so happy, you know, I

said hmm; he doesn’t know even what my goals are. Who cares, you know? But

195

they…we have to pay fees. That mean if - you better make it because if not, you

will be losing money.

Uh huh. Exactly. Gosh. Yikes. Alright. I…

Yeah, I hope that was okay.

Absolutely.

If you need anything. Sometimes I know I jumped from one thing to the other. If

you need something that you are missing, call me anytime.

Okay. Absolutely. I’m going to go ahead and turn this off.

[END OF AUDIO.]

196

Africa, Kenya

Alright, okay. So if you will tell me when you came to the United States and

why.

I came to the U. S. about - over 20 years ago and I came to school, so I went to

school. I got by BA in Missouri.

[END AUDIO ONE.]

[BEGIN AUDIO TWO.]

Alright, sorry about that. So you said you came to go to school in Missouri.

Was that college?

Yes, I went to college in Missouri. Got my BA, then went to Washington, D. C.

and got my master’s degree. Uh - then I taught and then went back to

Washington, D. C. and got my EdS in Leadership. So that’s how I ended up here.

And you came from which country?

Kenya.

Kenya. And what part of Kenya?

Western.

Western Kenya. Okay. And did you come to the United States by yourself?

Yes, I came alone.

For purposes of study?

Yes.

So all of the questions will be based on your lived experiences, so not

necessarily experiences that you’ve read about or studied about or

something.

197

Question #1: So the first question is describe the perceptions in Kenya about

the role of women as leaders.

I don’t think the perception, there’s nothing, I think there are so many women

who are leaders because like in my area I feel like if it was, most of the women

are the ones who have their children come to study abroad because it seems like

everybody’s saying it’s because of your mom that you’re going to study abroad.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

I don’t think the perception of the role of women as leaders is any different than

in USA, I think there are so many women who are leaders because in my area

many people feel that mothers are the ones who encouraged their children to

further their education abroad.

Below begins content from original recording:

So, in my neighborhood, I think there are also women; really, the perception was

it’s nothing wrong with it. They are leaders. Like my mom is very, is a leader,

she’s very well vocal so yeah, I didn’t have any problems with that.

And also, I went to an all girl’s boarding school. So…

Oh you did.

So leaders everywhere. So there was no problem with the perception of women as

leaders.

And were there women in government positions or anything like that that

you remember growing up?

Yeah, yeah, there were women in government positions. They had their own

businesses and stuff. So uh many women start their own businesses.

Good. Okay. Thank you.

Question #2: How did those perceptions in Kenya influence your ability to

develop leadership skills, or did they?

198

I have no idea because I left home when I was around 18, so I don’t know. Going

to school in an all girl’s school, you know, I knew I was a leader, so that had

nothing to do with the perception of women. I guess. So I’m not sure.

So when you left at 18, you left your home and your family to go to boarding

school?

No. I came to U. S.

Oh, you came to the U. S. at 18.

Yeah, I was – I went to a boarding school when I was six all the way through

high school.

Okay, okay. So at 18, okay. I see. Gotcha.

Question #3: Describe any home country cultural influences that have

supported your leadership development here.

I really don’t…I went to a boarding school and most of my teachers,

administrators who were really foreigners. So when it comes to culture, I was,

anyway I had, because in a boarding school, we had tribes, students from

different tribes together, so really I don’t know how that had any influence on me

as a leader. I don’t know.

Well, yeah, and as you say that you had, also, people from all different

ethnicities as your teachers and so there wasn’t…

No, no. Teachers they were from…I had administrators from…most of my

administrators were foreigners. They were Italian. I had an American, British,

so in the boarding school. So I didn’t really…

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

No, no. Most of my administrators and teachers were foreigners. Some were

Italian, American, British and some Kenyans.

Below begins content from original recording:

Yeah, so the administrators were foreigners, but the teachers were…?

199

Some were; yeah, some were foreigners, some were from Kenya.

Okay. Alright. Interesting. Must have been kind of a fantastic environment.

And it was an all girl’s school you said.

Yeah, from six, when I was six years old all the way to high school. I went to an

all girl’s school. Yeah. Different schools.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

Yeah, when I was six years old all the way to high school two different boarding

schools.

Below begins content from original recording:

Do you have brothers and sisters?

Yes, I have brothers. I have six brothers.

Six brothers.

I’m the only girl.

You’re the only girl. And where were you in the lineup of children?

I’m first born, but I never really stayed with my brothers because I was in the

boarding school. And then after I finished high school, I came here.

Wow, isn’t that something. And where are they?

I have three brothers here and three at home.

Okay, some here and some there. Do you go home very often?

Yeah, I do, but my mom is living with us, and then my brothers. So we - I haven’t

been for a while.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

Yeah, I do, but my mom is living with us, and sometimes with my brothers. So we

- I haven’t been for a while.

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Do you have brothers and sisters?

Okay. Thank you.

Question #4: Based on your lived experiences, what are the personal

supports that allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders?

So in your experience, what…?

When I came to U. S.- I came; I didn’t have...my parents paid only one semester’s

tuition. After that, I was on my own. So I had to work, hustle, do anything to

finish college. So that was my goal. So yeah. I guess that made me stronger

because I had to figure out how to solve problems in paying tuition. And by the

time I finished my BA and my master’s, I didn’t owe anything. Yeah.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

When I came to U. S. - I was alone. My parents paid only one semester’s tuition.

After that, I was on my own. So I had to work, hustle, do anything to finish

college because that was my goal. So I guess that made me stronger because I

had to figure out how to solve problems to pay my tuition. And by the time I

finished my BA and my master’s, I had no debt.

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Wow.

Scholarships, worked two jobs, yeah, summer went to school. It was…yeah.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

Scholarships, worked two jobs, and attended summer school.

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Did you know when you came here that your parents would only pay for one

semester? You did know that?

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Right, because my, again, people in my neighborhood, where I grew up, they told

us when you go to U. S. you just have to work. So that was expected. You do

anything, but your goal is to succeed and get a degree.

Wow. Tough.

Why is it tough?

Just, it just sounds like probably you’re by yourself and I guess language for

you wasn’t that much of a challenge.

No, there was no problem with language. In fact, I finished my BA, People look

at language, oh this, you can’t because you don’t know the language. That’s not

true. If you have a goal, it doesn’t matter. It’s your mind set.

Tell me what you do now.

Right now I am – I’m in transition. I was a teacher and then I decided to;

anyway, I was working for a school district, but my services were contracted

through an agency. So what happened is the school district decided to hire their

own – their own teachers and then they cut one position into a half position

without benefits or health insurance; nothing.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

Right now I’m in transition. I was an itinerant teacher in a school district, but my

services were contracted through an agency. So what happened is the school

district decided to hire their own their own teachers and then they cut one

position into a half position. That meant that I was neither to receive benefits nor

health insurance.

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Okay.

So I said, okay, because I was itinerant, driving to several schools and I thought

why should I be doing that without any benefits? So I decided, because I had

already started my administrator license program, that was my focus. So I just

finished it and then I’m shadowing…I’m working with different principals

learning the classroom, evaluations, interviewing, and so they have given me that

202

opportunity, so I go to different schools in the school district to work with the

principals and learn from them.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

So I said, okay, because I was itinerant, driving to several schools and I thought

that it was not worth it driving to 8 schools without benefits. Therefore, I decided

to focus on my school administrator license program which I had already started.

So I just finished it, and currently I have the opportunity to work with different

principals in a school district to learn from them leadership skills.

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What were you teaching before?

I was itinerant teacher for the different hard of hearing. So I went to different

schools.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

I was itinerant teacher for the Deaf/Hard of hearing. That means I drove to 8

schools provided services to students who are Deaf/Hard of hearing and consult

teachers and school administrators on how meet the needs of these students.

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Do you speak sign language?

I use sign language. I don’t speak sign language.

Yes, of course. Oh my gosh, yes. Interesting. Wow. Fantastic.

Yeah, I learned American Sign Language here.

Good. Good, good. What is your participation in the program tomorrow?

The fellow that we met and what you’re doing? What is your…?

It is next Saturday, the 17th

. But how I got involved was when I was in the – in the

school district, and I did my, when I did my EdS degree, I decided to do my

internship on community engagement in the school district. And so I organized, I

initiated, led and organized the whole community engagement; the whole process

and so they were, the first time they were 150 people attending including the

Commissioner of Education, and several politicians attending that conference.

203

And so I led the whole thing. But I felt like, because, again, black woman

immigrant, nothing was even…after that, nothing, there was nothing; no next step

after my internship was over.

Then I decided I still needed to use my leadership skills. And so I approached one

leader, principal at the high school and I said, “You know, students are really not

happy. The climate for this school is not good. So can I do something different

and do the collaboration with the community and the parents and stuff?” So,

again, I had a process, community engagement bringing in all people. So I did

the whole year. But then I had to do a needs assessment, you see, the students

data. I collected all that type so I had to do the whole process a year and a half -

And so during the first community engagement for that school, more like parent…

school/parent/community collaboration partnership. I met Judge [X]. So I

emailed her. She’s very involved with the youth. So I emailed her like and I

invited her to the community engagement conference. To my surprise, she showed

up. I was like - she responded. And I’m like, wow. I didn’t expect it, you know.

But anyway, so after that, she asked me if I could join the planning community for

educating the children of color. So that’s how I got involved. And so it has been

two years. So in this, doing this, I’m on the Board for [1234]. I have initiated

like the action planning session. That was my idea. Deaf participants and deaf

presenters; um last year they had two deaf presenters for the first time and the

deaf people said, “Well, we are never invited to present in a hearing led

community, whatever.” It’s always…even it’s the reverse, too, where when you

have conference where it’s for deaf educating deaf, whatever, hearing people are

the only ones who are presenting. So this was really like different. And so I did

that.

So, this year, again, there are five deaf presenters. One of them is deaf and blind

like Helen Keller, and so she’s, they are presenting and I’m doing the scheduling.

And also I developed the promotional materials. I coordinated the videotaping.

And so, and this is the first time that they had a video for promoting the summit.

So because I coordinated the whole thing with the school district. So, yeah. So

all those things are keeping me busy.

Study participant clarification of above five paragraphs:

It is next Saturday, the 17th

. When I did my EdS degree, I did my internship for my

EdS degree program on community engagement in a school district. I initiated,

204

led and organized the whole process leading to the first ever district-wide

community engagement conference. At this conference, 150 students, district

employees attended including the Commissioner of Education, and several

politicians. But I felt like, because, again, black woman immigrant, the district

did not follow up with the conference.

Then I decided I still needed to use my leadership skills. So I approached one

leader, principal at the high school and informed him that the culture and climate

in his school was negative. So I asked for his permission if I could help improve

the school by collaborating with the staff, student, parent and the community. I

worked with the students in bringing all these groups together at a community

engagement conference for need assessment.

During the first community engagement I met Judge [X] and I found out she is

very involved with bringing change in the community for the youth.

But anyway, so after that, she asked me if I could join the planning community for

educating the children of color. That’s how I got involved. And so it has been

two years. Therefore, I’m on the Board and Planning Committee for [1234]. I

have initiated the action planning session. I have recruited presenters and

participants who are Deaf for the first time. The presenters who are Deaf stated

that this is the first time they have ever been invited to an event led by hearing

people to present “Well, we are never invited to present in a hearing led

community” - whatever, this is different because the summit is inclusive.

So, this year, again, there are five deaf presenters. One of them is deaf and blind

like Helen Keller, and so she’s, they are presenting and I’m recruiting and

coordinating the scheduling of interpreters. And also I developed the

promotional materials. I coordinated with a school for high school students to

videotape and take pictures as part of the community service hours.

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So how many people do you expect will attend?

We’re hoping 1,000. Last year we had 1,200. This year 1,000 have registered,

but the deadline is this Saturday, so we’re hoping more people will register.

And what’s the goal of the conference?

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The goal is… the mission of the conference is to prevent whatever…the prison

pipeline of… of children of color and poverty used to… through education. I

have to memorize it.

Okay. I can look it up and make sure I get it.

Right, right. Tell me, again, the name of the organization. I’ll write that down.

[1234].

Yes. I remember that now.

Alright. Thank you. That’s great.

Question #5: What are the professional supports that have allowed you to

develop as a leader? Education.

I guess the whole thing. Yeah, education and also when I went for my EdS degree

in Washington, D. C. my education specialist degree, my professor believes in

bottom up. The reverse of top down is bottom up. And so my professor did

believe in that, and that’s what he really emphasized in the school system we need

to include parents, the community. We need to know what does the community

need? What do the students need? What do parents need? That is when you

develop a plan to meet the needs of those people. So that’s why, because of my

professor I was also able to, for my - all my community engagement conferences

that I facilitated, I used open space technology method for the conference, that

means I did not develop the agenda, the participants did. And so, and then they

facilitated the groups. But then you had to have norms and all that. And it really

worked out great. And everybody likes it.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

When I went for my EdS degree in Washington, D. C., my professor believes in

bottom up leadership in schools the reverse of top down is bottom up. He

emphasized the engagement of parents and the community in the school system.

The school system perform need assesses for students, parents and the community

before developing a district-wide and building strategic plans.

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Terrific. Well, and professional support, you mentioned the Judge. You

reached out and you were so shocked when she volunteered; well, showed up.

So that kind of support is really rewarding and…

Yeah, she showed up and it’s because of how that, yeah. And also, I am part of

the [5678]. So I am very involved in that. Last year was the first year they had

the Multicultural Literacy Conference. And I presented on parent engagement in

schools. And I facilitated. I didn’t because um – and it was well received. And

I’m presenting again; facilitating again this year.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

Yeah, she showed up and it’s because of how that, yeah. And also, I am part of

the [5678]. So I am very involved in that too. Last year was the first year they

had the Multicultural Literacy Conference. And I facilitated a session on parent

engagement in schools and I received great reviews.

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Are you involved with the Emerging Leaders Development Program?

Yeah, I am, I am. This year I haven’t that much, but ambassador; I’ve been an

ambassador to, yeah, when they have the readiness, college readiness programs.

Yeah. Yeah.

So you’re an ambassador to…?

What happens is…do you know about college readiness programs where

anyways…

I’ve heard of it, certainly, but.

Yeah, it’s on the website. So they want volunteers to be ambassadors when they

have high school students and they have all those, the trainings. So I, usually be

an ambassador.

College readiness program.

Yeah, I don’t exactly know how it’s called, but you can go and check on that.

Yeah, I’ve helped do that too.

207

Study participant clarification of above three study participant paragraphs:

I guided group of students to different sessions when they have trainings for youth

at a college.

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Have you participated in the Leadership Pike’s Peak Program?

Not the Leadership; that’s expensive for me.

It is.

I have participated in other leadership programs, like the one, I can’t remember.

I paid some money, not a whole lot. Leadership Pike’s Peak and also that one

requires to take some time.

It does.

Yeah, so.

El Pomar Foundation, as you probably know provides all kinds of training,

half a day…

Yeah, I’ve taken this one; I took for two days. I can’t remember which one.

Board training or something.

Yeah, Leadership something.

Oh Leadership Plenty.

Right. Leadership Plenty. I took that one. And I think something else. Yeah.

Alright, terrific. Thank you.

Question #6: Last question. What leadership traits must immigrant women

in the United States develop?

208

I don’t know. You have to… Leadership traits? I don’t know. You’d really have

to know how to work the system. Yeah. You have to - as you like, with me in

education, I’m finding it very challenging because I feel like when I did

community engagement conferences and all that, I should have not been let go

because even right now parents still call me to go complain about what happened.

“Why don’t we have the Community Engagement Conference? Why don’t we,” -

you know, “We did this. And we are not doing anymore.” And yet I’m not even

in the school district. So it’s because, and everybody I worked with was a white

male. So, and sometimes I, you know, I think they don’t like – I shouldn’t say that

– maybe they don’t like that, but I am very persistent and if I see a need, I try to,

especially with the students, they are our future. We can’t just…I try to include

everybody in what I’m doing, especially when I did all these things, the students

led students, they developed action plan students did this, so I was giving them

that; yeah, educating them to become leaders. But that was viewed differently.

So you should be telling them what to do, do you think?

I wasn’t because I was involving, you know, it’s the top down.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

I wasn’t because I was involving everyone. I collaborated with the students and

some teachers to perform need assessment. However, the administration did not

like that. They prefer top-down leadership.

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Yes.

And so oh, students need to participate. We need to be telling them what to do,

not them to be involved. So that’s…parents. “Oh, parents are coming to our

school? Oh no.” “Oh we are bringing in minorities to speak to students.” “Oh,

minority professionals? Oh no.” But they don’t say it.

Yes, I understand.

Instead they go, “Oh. Yeah – we don’t need” - but then in their own ways, they…

yeah. Because when I was doing some of these things to meet the needs of the

students, I had to bring in like, because in education, in general, especially in

Colorado Springs, they don’t have minority administrators, minority teachers, not

many. And so the students say, okay, we need, for example, to learn about

209

finances. So I would bring in minority, especially minority professionals and

others too. It was a mixture to come in and give presentations to my classes

about finances. So they learned from different professionals. And so those

professionals, they are role models.

Public speaking. I brought in someone who was uh - what was it, Atlanta Braves

uh teacher. Yeah, he’s very popular. He came in…

And talked?

Yeah. Taught students how to do proper public speaking and they wanted him

back. And the next year, and he’s black. And next year I was told no. So things

like that; they don’t want…and with me, I want them to be involved in the school

system. But they don’t want. So it’s like okay, so how can you as a woman, and a

black woman and an immigrant be able to know how to penetrate through that?

I don’t know. Role models would be terrific, but it sounds like there are

none.

None - not in the education system.

Wow. And you keep referring to Colorado Springs. Do you have experience

in other places where you think there’s a little more…?

I have lived – I’ve lived in Colorado Springs. Even when I analyze, because when

I took my classes for principal license, we had to do analytic - analyzing different

schools and demographics, and demographics for professionals and teachers and

staff members and administrators. So I did all that. Yeah.

Yeah it’s like they…the students; the student population is changing, but the

administration and teachers is not.

Interesting. So what keeps you here? Would you consider going someplace

else for opportunities?

Really, I have, I’ve thought about that, but I’m tired of moving. Mm hmm - yeah,

I am. And right now, I think I have a good network. Yeah, so here. And having

to go somewhere else and start all over again. But I’ve thought about it. But for

210

now, because even my husband wants to move. I’m like really; I really don’t want

to move.

When you said he wanted to move to be near a golf course, is that what you

said?

No, no, no, no. A different state.

Oh, a different state altogether. Oh, I see. Okay. Where would he like to

move? Just anywhere?

Yeah, I don’t know. We moved to Illinois before, a small town, then moved back

here so - because we had friends. But for now, for this year, I’m hoping to get a

job this spring.

Does he support your efforts to work and…? He doesn’t…?

To what jobs you mean?

Well, just that he wants you to try to find a job and be happy in your work

and…?

Yeah, my husband is very, in fact he, I - I recruited him for [1234]. So right now

he’s working on this thing.

Oh he is.

The program right now. He is the one who took the responsibility for the

program. So - and also he’s presenting. Yeah, so he supports me. And yeah,

regional loves him too, so…likes what he is doing and everything. So, yeah, he is

supportive. He’s very supportive. And what I’m doing. He’s the one who

recommended about shadowing principals and stuff. Yeah. So he’s very

supportive.

Good. And you said your mother lives with you. Is that right?

Mm hmm.

211

And does she, is she supportive of your working and the kinds of things that

you’re doing and…?

Mm hmm.

Does she get involved?

No - she has her own friends.

Oh, okay. That’s nice.

She has her own friends. Yeah, so. Yeah - so she supports me. She would like me

to have a job. Because with her, she always have worked - has worked. Always

had a job. So yeah, so she doesn’t like the idea that I don’t have a job.

When you say she worked and had a job, that was in Kenya.

Kenya.

What did she do?

She was a teacher for, yeah. But I – my – I would have become a doctor.

Oh you would?

Yes.

So why did you choose...?

I don’t know why. I don’t know why.

You came here with that intention, to school in Missouri with the thought

that you would be a doctor?

I think – because I guess the school I went to, I think. And also I felt like I had to

follow all the immigration regulations. I like - you know, I don’t like to break

them so I think that’s why.

So how did you choose Missouri and that school, in particular?

212

Yeah, it’s my mom again and friends and stuff, so.

Study participant clarification of above paragraph:

Yeah, it’s my mom again and friends

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So you somehow knew you were connected to that school in some way. Knew

somebody there or somebody had gone there?

Yeah, we knew someone who had gone there. Yeah.

Okay. So if it were a different school, maybe you would have been a doctor?

Mm hmm.

Isn’t that something? Wow. You’re kind of life is guided by, I don’t know,

sometimes beyond your control in a way. Isn’t that something? So when did

your mother come here?

My mother comes and goes. So she goes to Kenya and comes here. Goes to

Atlanta. So she’s all over. Yeah, my brothers are in Atlanta.

So you said three are here and three are at home. The three who are here

are altogether in Atlanta?

Mm hmm.

So maybe you would think about moving there.

No. I don’t like Atlanta.

You don’t? That was a definitive no. Alright.

Well thank you. Do you have any questions for me or anything? No.

No.

213

Can you think of anything else that we should have talked about or

that I should have asked that I haven’t?

No. You have, it’s your dissertation.

What I’ll do, in case I had a number of people say oh I know the

minute we leave, I’m going to think about something I should have told you.

So what I’ll do is I’ll send you the questions electronically and if you can

think of anything else that you think I should know, just respond in an email.

I can have a hard copy of it that way too.

No problem. No problem.

Use that information for analysis purposes. But other than that, I think

we’re finished.

I hope I didn’t say anything bad about white men.

Oh, Heaven’s no. This is, frankly, kind of tame compared to some

things I’ve heard in my interviews.

Oh really?

Yes. I’ve heard some… some interesting stuff.

Okay.

Some of which has been taped and some of which has not been taped.

You know because as we were, for example, walking out of the library, you

know, maybe there are some things that are said and I think, oh I wish I had

that on the recording, you know.

[END OF AUDIO.]

214

Africa, Egypt

So if you would just start by telling me where you’re from, how you came to

the United States, for what reason, how old were you, kind of basic information.

Absolutely. I was born in Cairo, Egypt. Then my parents were transferred to

Rome, Italy in the early ‘70s. That’s where I grew up; well, I grew up in Egypt,

first, but I was around 13-years old when we moved to Italy. So I continued with

my French education in Italy - then proceeded to go to Scotland for a back-to-

back Master’s degrees in Edinburgh, Scotland. And after that, I visited my

brother in Washington, D. C. He was, and is still working for, [1234]. And that’s

where I met my first husband.

So I decided to stay in the United States. That was in the Washington, D. C. area.

We got married. We had our first kid and then we moved to Virginia when the

second kid was born. And in 1992, my first husband was working for [5678] at

the time and was transferred from Washington, D. C. to Herndon area actually -

to Colorado Springs, and that’s where I had stayed since 1992. So after my

divorce, I got remarried and I remained in Colorado Springs.

So, how old were you when you came, the first time, to the United States to

Washington?

I was around 25 years old.

Twenty-five. And you were single and you had gotten, at that point, two

Master’s degrees already before coming here.

Correct. Correct.

Okay. Terrific. So all of the questions will begin with “Based on your lived

experiences.” So the purpose of that is to understand from your perspective,

whether it’s professional or personal, etc. So not something, maybe, we’ve

heard on the news or learned about through our studies or that kind of thing.

215

Question #1: So, based on your lived experiences, then, describe the

perceptions in Egypt about the role of women as leaders.

I have to warn you that basically I come from a background and a family that is

not exactly your most common, typical, majority of Egyptian. I come from a very

privileged background, part of society where I was extremely lucky to have my

parents as my parents because they are the ones that basically determined

everything that was gonna to happen later on in my life.

When you start on the right foot and you come from privilege, you come from

education and money and open-minded vision of what women are supposed to do

and be, it really gave me an advantage that the standard majority of Egyptian

women would not have. So I would not be a reflection of your typical Egyptian

woman. So I have to make that very clear from the beginning.

Thank you.

My parents were trilingual. They were French and English educated and there

was no hesitation in making sure that both my brother and myself would follow

exactly in the same format and that we would also be sent to private schools that

offered French and then English and other languages. Uh and, to me, speaking

various languages was never a problem, a hurdle; to me it was extremely natural.

I hate to say that being a kid you sort of think and expect that everybody else is

really the same.

Interesting. Yeah. And to find that in fact they are not.

Exactly. And then if I were to go back to both my parents, but especially my

mother as a role model, she was also most unusual. She was born in 1920. She

had me when she was almost 40 years old. She was 39, to be exact.

Is your brother older or younger?

He’s older. Two years older. And mom was, herself, an unusual case. Yes,

again, she came from a well known, privileged, family. She grew up relatively

poor because…it’s a personal story, but her father got remarried after her mom’s

death and she had to struggle with all of her four – two brothers and two sisters –

her four siblings. So it wasn’t as easy. Yes, she has the privilege of coming from

a family that wanted her to go to a private school: in fact, it was the same school

216

that I went to. But she had to forge her way. But to her it was very normal to

want to do that. She was trilingual. She started her life – her professional life as

a trilingual secretary. Amazing skills at the time – French, Arabic, and English –

typing very fast.

Her older brother took her with him when she was 18-years old for a trip to

London. So she had exposure to the western world. She grew up in a very

western type of environment wearing the latest fashion from Paris. And

that’s…she learned to drive in the desert, thanks to her older brother. She was an

amazing driver with a stick shift that she could drive trucks. So that’s the kind of

trailblazer that my mother was. But to her, it was very natural. That was the only

way. There was no other option. She just wanted to make sure that she had a

good balance between her work and her family.

The other thing that goes hand in hand with the background that she had is in

Egypt we have access to help in the house, whether it is in the form of a nanny or

form of people that come and cook or people that come and clean. So that was

very natural for her to want to continue to work, even if she had two kids.

Because also, my grandmother, on my father’s side was living with us. So she

helped bring us up. And so my mom was very, very comfortable being able to

pursue her career and then come home to two very well taken care of kids that

were very happy as well.

Now did she marry late?

She married relatively late, by Egyptian standard. She married when she was 35

years old. Yeah.

Question #2: How have these perceptions influenced your ability to develop

leadership skills?

Basically, I was extremely lucky to have been born to the household that I was

born in. So, to me, perception, well, that was the only way to go. My parents

were highly educated, highly motivated, and I think they somehow managed to

put that in my mind and in my heart. So there was absolutely no question that I

would finish high school and then pursue university education, higher education.

And then at some point I would have a career. If I wanted to stay at home and be

an at-home mom, they would not have said that’s a bad thing, but they wanted to

217

give me all of the options and the choice would be mine. But I just did not ever

think that I would stay at home and do nothing else. Although, I did end up doing

that for the first couple of years when my kids were born in the U. S. I was also

lucky that at the time my first husband had a good job that enabled me to stay at

home and to be with the kids. Although, I was longing to also have some sort of

external access to the world so that I would occasionally do some translations or

I would have a very short part-time work teaching languages. But I wanted to be

engaged. I couldn’t imagine just staying at home.

So you grew up knowing you had options and it was up to you to decide. So

you had the choices.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah, that’s terrific.

Question #3: So, again, based on your lived experiences, describe any home

country, so Egyptian, cultural influences that have supported your leadership

development here.

I don’t know if it would be specifically Egyptian versus French because I went to

pre-school and I already spoke French and Arabic when I was, what, two-years

old, three-years old with my parents at home. My parents had a wonderful social

life. Many many friends from many countries. So listening to different languages

was very natural.

Leadership qualities. I don’t know if they are specifically Egyptian or they are a

blend or they are westernized, but I honestly cannot pin point and say that is a

trait in an Egyptian culture that enabled me to become easier leader later on in

life. I think it was really the mix and that probably without the French or the

British influence, who knows what would have happened.

Okay, great. Thank you.

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Question #4: What are the personal supports that have allowed you to

develop as a leader here? And you’ve already mentioned some things, but are

there…?

Strangely enough, I go back over and over again to my parents. Without my

parents, I wouldn’t be here today. And that is a very honest statement. Yes, I

certainly can credit to myself certain decisions uh and choices that I made in life,

but I really believe that it is because of the most unusual help that I got right from

the starting point that I am here.

So, yes, the parents enabled me to have a very good education, which, so it’s like

a wonderful vicious circle; a snowball. Once you start somewhere and it’s good

and you have nothing but good factors that come into your life, it becomes much

easier to make good choices.

Obviously, I wanted, at some point, to succeed, whether it is finding a good job

for life with a company, or creating my own business. At some point in time I felt

that I wanted to take the chance, the risk to create my own business, but that’s not

where I started nor did I have a vision as a young kid. But that was exactly what I

was gonna do. I evolved into it.

So, as far as personal supports, you mentioned your paternal grandmother

living with you – like help around the house or perhaps the mother’s friends;

any other people in your social circle, perhaps, that had any…?

They provided the social support, but I think what really helped my mind develop,

it was really my father more than anything else. And then the role model that my

mother presented to me by being able to work and to still have a family and a

happy family at that.

There are some specific personal circumstances in my family that also helped

push us towards mom being the main wage earner at some point. My father was

a highly successful lawyer that was going, doing great in his career, but at some

point he developed a detachment of the retina which really, really set him back.

He was young. He was in his late 40’s. And suddenly, you have to imagine that

was in the 70’s where computers did not exist. You used to be you had to write

your cases, maybe type them on the old fashioned, non-electric typewriter and so

on. And yes, he had secretaries and so on, but he…it really set him back, not

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being able to see as well. In fact he could no longer drive um because he was

legally blind in one eye and had very limited vision in his second eye.

We wanted to make sure that we still had all of the opportunities and there is also

another factor that has to be told is the fact that we are a [family from a religious

minority]. In the past, in the 50’s and the 60’s, there was absolutely no problem,

but there was a short period of time where it wasn’t quite clear whether [religious

minorities were] gonna be able to flourish the same way as in the past.

So a combo of the war with Israel, at the time, the uncertainty of the economy,

and the [potential concerns about religious minorities]; it was a strange period in

Egypt. So the combination of my father losing his sight and his ability to continue

with his career, we sort of shifted the attention to mom who was working for

[1256]. And that was our way of getting out of Egypt with mom pursuing, full

blast, her career opportunity, and dad taking a little bit of a break. But that was

not his nature.

So, regardless of what, of his limited eye sight, once we moved to Italy because

the [1256] transferred my mom, he decided that he was not gonna sit idle, despite

of his very serious limitations, and he was a superb Arabic scholar; maybe

because of his career as a lawyer, but Arabic was a language that he totally,

totally mastered. So he decided to put that to play and he started doing

translations and he started teaching Arabic, and he was an awesome teacher.

And I think I could really say that he’s the one that inspired me to at least look

into teaching as a possible profession. He was a natural at it. Very much loved

and respected by his students.

He also did a lot of very technical translations because of his knowledge of

French and English and, of course, his mastery of Arabic. And I remember, at the

time, I was grumbling a lot. I was a teenager helping him to look up words in the

dictionary because he could not see it. And he would rely on me. And so despite

my grumbling, I ended up learning a lot because of his practice; being able to

say, [G] do the research, find out there are many words, what’s the best one, and

so on. So he really helped my analytical side, plus my research side because I

had to help him.

And perhaps persistence too, even. Given his disability, he was nonetheless,

driven.

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Absolutely. Absolutely. You know he was not about to sit at home and, I don’t

know, listen, just to the BBC on the radio. He needed to do something and that’s

what he did - absolutely.

That’s fantastic. Wonderful stories.

Question #5: Alright, so, along the same lines, again, based on your lived

experience, what are the professional supports that have allowed you to develop as

an immigrant leader in the United States?

I have to give some credit to my brother who was also an amazing role model to

me. He’s, as I mentioned, two years older, highly successful. He was - started his

career at [1234]. He stayed at the [1234]. He moved up the ladder and had

major territories that he was responsible for or whole departments and so on. So,

and he certainly helped me in the first couple of years because I stayed with him

in his apartment in Washington, D. C. Um and just looking at him inspired me

and said I could make it in the United States. So I’ll give him, also, credit for

being an inspiration and a true, practical role model.

Other than that, it was just, I guess, the – the basic knowledge that I could do

anything that I wanted and that I had the skills and it would be wasted if I did not

use them.

I really don’t think that I looked around me and found either a mentor or anything

like that. There was no such a thing. It was just my family and

relying…developing good friendships in the Washington, D. C. area absolutely.

And those were from…what did you do those first couple of years? Were the

friendships as a result of work, or…?

No, it was mainly a result of knowing people from my previous life. So there was

this doctor that was a childhood friend that happened to be in Virginia and he’s

of Lebanese/British origin. And we reconnected and he got married to a

Lebanese lady and she became one of my best friends. We had kids, basically, I

had [B], she had [C]; I had [O], she had [T] within a few months of one another

and we used to spend a lot of time together helping one another, having the kids

play together. But she was definitely a stay-at-home mom at the time.

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The first two years you were in D.C., did you work?

No.

This is when you were…?

Well before having children, yes I did work.

Okay, and what did you do then?

I worked as an analyst for a consulting firm – [3478], Washington, D.C. area.

[3478]?

Yeah, that’s how they used to be called because they were located just by the

beltway and it was a consulting firm that did a lot of work for the um [1357]. And

so that’s what I did for a couple of years until I got pregnant. So after I gave

birth, I decided to stay at home. Um and then, [O] came along just 19 months

later. So it sort of made sense to stay at home and take care of two very close

kids; very close in age. And that’s what I did.

But then when we moved to Colorado Springs and then the kids were a little bit

older and started going to kindergarten, that’s when I decided, okay, now they’re

gonna be at school for a number of hours a day, what do I do with my life. And

that’s when I looked to opportunities in Colorado Springs and uh I started

teaching. That was actually my main area of expertise and focus. Um and I

taught at [many higher education institutions]. And I pursued a teaching career

for quite some time.

Okay. How did you meet your husband? The first husband?

The first husband, it was, actually, thanks to my brother in Washington, D. C.

And as I mentioned, I was staying with my brother in his apartment and my first

husband happened to be living in the same apartment building.

Ah, okay. Terrific. Thank you.

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Question #6: Last question. So, again, based on your lived experiences, what

leadership traits must immigrant women in the United States develop?

Persistence and the feeling that they can succeed.

So self confidence?

Self confidence, believe in themselves, and actually never stopping and saying I’m

a foreigner, I have a weird accent, people will not listen to me. I pushed all of

these things completely out of my mind and I guess it’s not that I even pushed

them; they were out of my mind. I was not ever, ever thinking that there was

anything that would prevent me from succeeding. I guess I never paid attention to

my accent. I never paid attention to the fact that I look as a foreigner, that I have

slightly darker skin, etc. To me, it was just no big deal.

A couple of things. One is that a number of people have said, a number of

the study participants have said that, in fact, the accent has benefited them

because people are more likely to listen intently. You have to be listening in

order to understand.

Very true. It certainly helped me in my chosen career later on to be a provider of

foreign language services. People would remember me, would remember the

Egyptian lady with the accent, the one that speaks five languages. So it helped me

stand out a little bit more. Absolutely. It was not a hindrance.

And as far as the sort of qualities that immigrant women need to develop

here, you never had the, I guess, disadvantage of language barrier. Because

many of the study participants have learned English later in life and it’s

been, and still continues to be a challenge.

Absolutely, I think, obviously, that was a major, major advantage. But the other

thing that I really have to underline is the fact that my parents never considered

gender to be something important. So I had a brother and then I had – there was

me. And they treated us equally, except of course for household chores. I don’t

think my brother ever cooked or ironed our father’s shirts. I certainly did that,

but leave that aside. It was not a big deal. And, in fact, it was an advantage for

me to learn how to cook, to know how to cook. But in every other way, they

looked at me and him equally.

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Fascinating. Yeah, and that’s, I guess, in some cases, study participants have

said that gender has been a real deterrent. The gender sort of differentiation

or discrimination, if we want to call it that. And in my research, I’ve actually

found there is this notion of sort of double jeopardy where women, #1, and

immigrants, #2, both of which kind of hinder development of leadership

skills in the United States.

Very possible, but I would honestly say that that was not the case with me. Maybe

I was completely oblivious to the fact that society would have, would differentiate

between men and women. And I certainly never believed or thought that there

would be um some sort of discrimination because I was not American.

I guess it helped that coming to the U. S., one of my very first connection was

through my brother. Again, working for the [1234], that was a very small enclave

of foreigners that had great opportunities for work with a wonderful organization.

So when I first came here, and that’s all I met and knew, I saw diversity.

Later on in life I worked for American organizations, but at the time, I never

really felt that there would be any discrimination or any differentiation.

Coming to Colorado Springs, again, maybe it’s me choosing not to dwell on it,

but I came here; I was young, in my early 30’s. Very petite. I can look like a kid

or looked like a kid at the time; wear shorts and t-shirts, running after my kids at

home. And I remember at the time that…you have to remember this is 1992 in

Colorado Springs; that I did experience a few odd instances where I was

reminded that I was not American, but I chose to completely dismiss it, ignore it,

and move on.

And can you talk about one of those experiences?

Well, very different. Like one going into furniture store and waiting, waiting,

waiting, for somebody to even pay attention to me. And then having someone

loudly say, “Hey, can somebody help this girl here?” So, maybe I looked super

young, although I was in my 30’s. But, anyway, that was one instance.

The other one was I was still married to my first husband and I went to open a

Foley’s credit card, and I filled in the application and submitted it to the lady

behind the counter and I said I’m gonna do a little bit of shopping and I’ll come

back when you have the answer. And I remember uh catching one of the ladies

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saying to another saleswoman, “Oh, it went through” like she was really

surprised that my credit application would go through.

Again, I couldn’t care less.

Yes. I understand completely.

But that really happened.

So, I guess it’s about choices too. You couldn’t care less, I couldn’t care less.

I experienced similar things, too, and I guess you can choose to kind of, as

you say, dwell on it and wonder why and this and that, or you can carry on

and say…

You don’t let it affect you. You move on. You have a good sense of self. Um and

that’s pretty much it.

Yeah. Well, great. I think we’re finished unless you have any questions for

me. Can you think of anything we maybe should have talked about that we

didn’t or last minute things? Anything?

Honestly, no, but when I really think about it, it’s the fact that I was extremely

persistent. That’s where I am today, you know, having founded a company,

having bought bigger competitor, and having been in business 15 years. That’s

not a small accomplishment, but I take it not for granted but as the normal thing

that anybody with a brain and natural abilities and background that was handed

to me on a platter that I really needed to make something of my life.

And it’s interesting because you said specifically before, not, you sort of

never had a vision, necessarily, to start your own business; it kind of just

evolved. So even though you had these privileges and opportunities, it

wasn’t, necessarily, that the goal always was this. It was that, again, it’s

about choice.

It’s about choice. It’s about seeing opportunities. It’s putting to practice some of

the skills that I have gathered throughout my wonderful years of education.

Having an MBA, I really thought at the time that I would end up working for a big

bank, an international organization. I never really thought that I would be the

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one to create my own business. But that’s how it happened and I never looked

back since then. It was just was a natural progression, I guess.

I understand. That’s great. Thank you.

[END OF AUDIO.]

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Eastern Europe, Russia

Alright, so we’ll get started. Any questions for me before we start?

No.

And you’ve seen the list of questions already, so we’re good there. And so I

want to just start by asking when did you come to the United States? How old were

you, why you came? Sort of general information.

I’m a musician and in 1992, I received a scholarship award from University of

[3478] to come to study with my quartet. And so I came with my quartet in 1992

as an exchange student. And I was 24 at the time.

Twenty-four. So all four of you came together?

Yeah.

And all of you went to the same school here?

Right. Same program. Yeah.

Gotcha. And that was 1992?

Right.

Okay. Alright. So the study is based on your lived experiences, so not

information you’ve read or seen on the news, or anybody, your friend’s experiences.

It’s just what you’ve experienced personally, professionally, etc.

Question #1: Based on your experiences, describe the perceptions in Russia

about the role of women as leaders.

Yeah, times are really changing. That time we came here in ’92, um was largely

male dominated professional field for us. Orchestras in Russia were all male.

Maybe we can see five women in the entire orchestra. Some groups didn’t accept

women altogether. So I remember, myself, I was in college and I was promoted to

become a concert mistress of chamber orchestra. And I, myself, felt very

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uncomfortable doing it because the concept was that women shouldn’t be in that

place.

So it was a whole upbringing of girl musician was like to teach, to be in the shade

of the husband, to take care of the kids, you know, and such, especially my family

is from Armenia and I was brought up with the thought that I will marry well and

raise kids, you know. Uh and with me being such a head strong and determined

in what I want to do, really, their attempts to do the fixed marriage a couple of

times. It didn’t work out. So it was, they were very careful of doing it, but still it

did not work out. So I knew very early on that I wanted to play in a quartet. I

was in high school applying for college and I knew that I wanted to do quartet;

not orchestra. Not any of that. But as far as leadership, I didn’t see that

happening. It’s like I wanted to be in a group of equals, which are musically

communicating, and that’s a quartet. I don’t want to be a boss.

So tell me a little more about your family dynamic. And it does address sort

of personal influences. Were there any other children in your family?

I have older brother. I have older brother. One. And even though my family

comes from that background, both of my parents are very different from

“traditional” upbringing. My father grew up in a very communist family and

very ambitious family. My grandmother was a communist, one of the leaders of

the local organization.

Oh she was?

She, so, she was a delegate to the communist party assemblies like once every five

years, you know. And my father is still, I think he’s delusional, but he’s still

communist and delivering those goals. He’s old. 77. He still works. His siblings

are also very ambitious in their professional lives. His sister still works. His

brother used to work until he passed away like, literally. They are very

professionally-oriented. Success-oriented. And very hard workers.

My mom came from family of five; six. She’s a…they have four girls and

two…what did I say? Five. Six. A little bit more - simpler family. Not so

ambitious. Not so career-oriented. Still, she had guts to move to Moscow with

my father to raise kids, to divorce my father, to go back to work, to um – to like

make it on her own.

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When she divorced my father, I remember my uncle was telling her that how dare

that you go work to the factory and be a boss over 60 man. And she dared to do

that. So – so making it a long story short, she was like a 5th

child in the family

when they expected the boy. So she probably wanted to prove that she’s worth

something too. It’s – it’s really; I was trying to understand why did she do it.

You know, how, like being like late 40’s, I’m coming down to, like going back to

my family and thinking, “What in the heck? What am I doing in America?” I’m

going back to my roots and trying to see what all created this. Both of my parents

are this way. And I am that way too.

When I asked about siblings, do you feel like your parents had a different

idea for your brother than for you? And an older brother…

He also had interesting path. He wanted to be an engineer. And part of it is our

country’s story and how it all happened. When he graduated from college, the

Soviet Union fell apart. He worked as a engineer for a little bit, then he couldn’t

support his family on that salary. And unfortunately for him, it didn’t really work

out as well. He tried different jobs. I could say that finally after some 15 years of

trying this, and this, and this, and this, and that, he came to a position where he is

doing what he loves so much. He’s involved in skiing... he’s outdoor store

manager. He is actually having a leading position in his company. It’s not his

company; he works for hire. But he travels the world. He skis. He tests skis.

And it’s like finally he just does what he likes. He’s such a dare devil. He jumps

from the helicopter down the fresh powder to – like he looks for those exotic

places in the world and he travels there and uh that’s his passion. Been all, since

I remember. He was probably 12. He caught the skis on the balcony; we had like

cross country skis. He cut them short and went skiing down the hill. It’s his

passion.

He was sort of an engineer back then in a way.

That’s right. He didn’t go to; he didn’t go into scientific field for engineering and

he decided to switch professions. Just probably opportunities were not there

where he really needed to make ends meet. Because his daughters were born and

he just needed to make it. It was difficult. 1990s and Russia. It was hard.

Okay. Just about the time you came here.

Yeah.

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Was there any motivation? And this is home country cultural; well, it’s

really not cultural. Well, in a way it is. The political environment there, was

that a motivator for you to come when you did or was it just you had the

scholarship opportunity and thought this is a…

I had the scholarship opportunity. It was cool. It was a professional

development. It was a new opportunity for my quartet. And looking back, we

were thinking if we stayed in Russia, we probably wouldn’t survived because it

was very poor and hungry times in Russia. That was starvation time.

And was it easier for you to all come together? Did that make it kind of

easier in a way? It’s like okay, I have this group and support and…

Yeah, I would say so. But we – we all had to come through, through our own

loops, of course. At the time I was mostly English speaking. My English was

minimal. It took us two years; it took me to three years to pass the TOEFL test.

Because we were all together, it was kind of working against us. Uh the others

passed the TOEFL later. Even later. So the difficulty was the language barrier,

of course. And there’s a lot of mental barriers too because, you know, you want

to be successful in this country, I realized finally, 22 years later that you need to

praise yourself. You need to market yourself. You need to sell yourself all the

time.

You know, in our home country, it’s considered inappropriate. You don’t talk

well about yourself. You want to be humble. You want to be, you know, nice.

You don’t talk well about yourself.

Interesting, yeah, to boast is inappropriate or yeah. Same here.

And I’m thinking that’s why probably we didn’t jump through the roof right away

because we were stars in Moscow. Like just fresh competition winners- like three

- three in a row – boom, boom, boom. And we come here and it’s like, here,

we’re nobody and then how do you promote yourself? But oh, that’s what you do.

“What are you talking about? It’s not appropriate.” It took some time to adjust

and kind of…and still I’m not comfortable doing that. I just do it because it’s

necessary.

You have to. Yeah. So we’ve talked a little bit about this.

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Question #3: Describe any home country cultural influences that supported

your leadership development here.

Probably that I saw my parents work so hard and make it. They both from

Azerbaijan and their families moved quite early on and my father got the

scholarship; not scholarship… because education was free at that time, but he

got into the prestigious engineering school in Moscow and then got a job in

Moscow and my mom moved with him. At that time it was not immigration; it

was just, you know, moving for the job. It was the same country. Uh and then

they worked really hard too when they arrived, both of them.

And you were born there, then, in Moscow after they moved there.

Yeah.

Question #4: So what are personal supports that have allowed you to

develop as a leader here?

Again, it was probably my strong drive to continue doing what I like. Because

when they got the job at the University, at [1234], it didn’t offer a performance

opportunity for the quartet, and that was my passion for many many years. So we

started the group here that you were part of and just working to make it work, to

make it grow, to make it develop one step at a time. One step at a time.

Now, how did you get from Michigan to Colorado?

Uh we – for the job here. We were [inaudible 12:43]University of [5678]

conservatory at the time.

Oh, I went to University of [5678]. I did, yeah.

We were there in the artistic diploma program. Again, trying to extend our

student visa and we knew [D] from a previous studying program at [1256]

University. And he worked on getting us here and getting, developing a residency

for the quartet. And that happened.

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How much have you stayed in touch with home and family?

Regularly.

And you go back every year.

Yes.

And are you in touch, other than traveling back annually?

Weekly, with my parents. I check on them. Yeah.

Weekly.

I wish I could spend more time on Skype, but it’s just… insane. I need to get

through the day.

Yes. Well and time differences and all these kinds of things. With [B], it’s 16

hours. It’s such a…it’s very odd. Right. It’s not half a day. It’s not a whole

day. It’s just this kind of…it poses lots of challenges, I think.

How do you do? Early in the morning right?

Well, one or the other. You know, typically, we try to do late in the day for

him, so early in the morning for us. It’s easier for him. He misses the early

morning ones. Early morning, he has time. Alright.

Question #5: So, what are the professional supports that have allowed you to

develop as a leader? So you had the scholarship opportunities and development of

the artist in residence program at [12345]. Are there any other things specific to

leadership development?

I went to couple of workshops for executive directors of the group – like El Pomar

Foundation had one. And I can’t remember the other one. One was at the library

at Penrose Library here downtown. Just to kinda check and see what - where am

I and what am I doing. Because a lot of what we do is intuitive. Yes, we try to

look at the other groups, what they do, but you know, like entrepreneurship, you

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need to; it’s a method of trial and mistakes. Right. Some things you tried, it

worked. The other things don’t work.

We talked a lot…there is a group here similar to ours, the [E] Quartet.

Oh yes. Uh huh.

And at the beginning stages, we talk a lot, with the musicians there, and trying to

see what made them fold and what prevented us from folding. So that was helpful

to…they said once they started going to Denver for work, the local community in

the Springs started seeing them as Denver people, and Denver people saw them

as Colorado Springs people. So what we did, we now have Board which consists

of members from both Pueblo and Colorado Springs. So we feel we, the world is

too small to fight about it. Let’s support and make it work for everybody. Build it

in a different way.

So Southern Colorado rather than a specific location.

That’s right. And then also doing a lot of online work. Maybe it was not

available at that time to [E]. Well not this widely spread. We get board votes

online via email. We have a collaboration site. At some point we even conducted

the board meetings on Skype.

Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah.

At that point, we feel kind of in the well-oiled machine kind of position where

things work out.

That’s good. You feel comfortable and it’s like, oh, you sort of know what

you’re doing and not feeling your way.

Trying to figure it out. Yeah. It’s a very good state to feel.

Good. And so are you performing in Denver at all or is it pretty much…?

It’s pretty much here. We feel it will be invitation to perform somewhere we go.

But if it’s too much work to import your product, and it’s not worth it. It’s too

far, the distance.

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I’ve seen some YouTube clips and things like that. Are there opportunities?

I mean I think about the Metropolitan Opera, for example. They show on

the big screen in the movie theaters. I mean is that…

Didn’t get that far yet!

You know, when you say the [E] Quartet folded, maybe they didn’t have as

many opportunities then. Now, it’s so…yeah, almost too much opportunity.

Yeah. Yeah, it would be great, actually. Veronica’s husband now does all the

YouTube postings for us and he likes - works on the website. He just sat down

and learned how to create a website and put it together. So that’s the next step;

podcasting and all that. Technology is still a little bit of challenge for me. I kind

of try to do my best, but again, you can only do so much.

How did you meet your husband?

At a party.

Is he Russian?

He’s Russian.

But you met him here?

I met my husband in Milwaukee.

Milwaukee. Oh, okay, before you even came here.

Yeah.

Ah, okay. So at a party in Milwaukee. Isn’t that something? Fabulous.

I would never guess…

That would have happened.

Yeah.

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It’s a nice story, right?

I don’t know. We’ll see how it ends. It’s been 21 years, but it’s not over yet.

Gosh. Twenty-one years, and your daughter’s 11. So you waited until you

were here and…

Yeah. It was very shaky um the first few years because we couldn’t, we couldn’t

plan far with having student visa and all that.

Yeah.

Gypsies. One month here, another month there. Didn’t put any roots anywhere.

But, um and we got here, we were…it was ’99. I was 32. Yeah. It was about

time.

Alright.

Question #6: We talked about professional supports. What leadership traits

do you think immigrant women coming here need to have?

They, first of all, need to understand the mentality is different in this country and

what took us the longest to understand that you don’t praise yourself. Yes - do

praise yourself. You’re very good. Trust in yourself. And this is a country of

opportunity and freedom to choose - do what you think you should do or what

you’re passionate about.

Interesting. Yeah, and I think about collectivist cultures versus the United

States is very much an individualistic society. It’s all about me. I even think

about conversations that I listen to people talk and they’ll say, somebody I

haven’t seen for a while, for example, they’ll say, “Oh my daughter this and

this,” and I think, I wonder if they divorced because the person says “My

daughter,” right, instead of our daughter. And I think, well maybe they split

up. It’s no longer our, it’s just me. Yeah, and I think it…but it’s very much

significant, right…

Culture. Different.

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It’s exactly what you’re talking about.

Or at the university, like you see the trumpet player would go to recruit students

at the high school and for next week you hear about his trip to high school. And

we did those like monthly, if not more. And it’s like, okay, I did my job fine. Why

do we need to talk about it?

I don’t know. What do you mean?

Like in the hallways you hear people like share and we - the quartet went to high

schools regularly. Every month we were required to make a trip, and sometimes

we’d make more trips. And we don’t talk about it. We don’t praise ourselves.

You know it’s like…

Oh, I see what you’re saying.

Okay. I did my job. Fine. And people like share, the Americans share. We

don’t. You know. And we need to like get to pliers and pull it out of me.

It’s interesting. Yeah, yeah. So now I understand what you’re saying. Yeah,

so he’s not bragging about having visited all these high schools.

No, it’s just uh – it’s just normal. Okay. I did my job.

Yeah, it’s interesting, right. You see it as your kind of responsibility, in a

way.

That’s right. Yeah.

Rather than how he sees it as self promotion or…

That’s right - yeah, we could have self-promoted more if we were different in our

minds. You know?

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, I completely understand what you’re saying. There

was one other thing I wanted to say and I forgot. But based on the same kind

of thing and…oh, I can’t think of it. Yeah, I don’t know.

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In that sense, that – that mentality, that’s what I mean. Mentality difference.

That took us a long time to adjust. Even now.

And even now you say you’re still…

I am not comfortable doing that. It’s not me. Maybe if I came 10 years earlier, it

might become my second nature. But since I was24 at the time, maybe it’s not

young enough to…and it’s probably personality, too, the extroverts and

introverts.

So a combination of things. What about your daughter?

She’s more American than we are. She - you know, they grow different. You

probably know.

Yes, yes, because I think about some of the expectations my parents have and

you know, they’re sort of unrealistic given, you know, our upbringing here

and just lots of things. So, yeah, I agree. It’s not just one thing; it’s sort of a

combination – personalities, you know, personal experiences, everything.

Professional field, where you get to.

Well, and how much even what you do is sort of personal satisfaction, right,

more so than it is you want people to clap a lot.

Yeah. I mean I missed my notes and then I cannot sleep at night. You know.

Yes, yes. The self promotion thing is more about how is the audience

reacting to what you’re playing and you’re, I think, more interested in really

performing well.

That’s right.

Interesting. One note and you can’t sleep at night.

It’s like how dare you?

Isn’t that something?

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I think…let me open the door.

Okay. I’ll go ahead and stop the recording. Okay.

[END OF AUDIO.]

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Western Europe, Italy

So when did you come to the United States and why did you come here?

Well, we got married on September 8th

, September 7th

, 1963 and then after nine

months - after two months and nine days, I came to the United States, December

7th

, 1963.

And you came from?

Lucca Sicula.

In?

Sicily.

In Sicily, Italy. Alright. Terrific. So you came for marriage?

Well, I was already married there.

You got married there?

There, yes, I got married there.

And then came here together with your husband.

Right.

Okay. Alright. So all of the information that we’ll gather here is based on

your lived experiences, so not what you’ve read or seen on the TV or from other

people. It’s exactly what you’ve experienced in your own life, personally,

professionally, etc.

Question #1: Based on your lived experience, then, describe the perceptions

in Italy of women as leaders.

Well, women are strong there. Women are strong. My mother was a strong

woman. My mother was a - I call a business woman because she want, she was,

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she want buy, buy, buy, buy land over there. We used to buy land because she

want for the kids to get better. And she didn’t want the kids to go work for other

people. And she provide, she provide, she provide, she provide us good. You

know what I mean.

Mm hmm.

We, we, we…my daddy was a good man too. My daddy was a good man.

So buying land and then did what with the land?

Well, she want they get married, they give them a piece of land to the children to

start the, to start the life, to start the life. You know, they divide it. They give this

piece for you, this piece is for you. And the boys, they used to give the house also.

And they, they want, that way they didn’t, they have a good start. They have a

good start.

So if they didn’t have a house they could, they had land to build a house and

kind of…?

Well, they - the man always have the house.

They got the house.

The man always had a house. The woman, it was a little bit less, you know.

Because the property, because her husband will provide the house.

Uh huh. Okay. So your family, in that way, wasn’t unusual. This is was

kind of common.

It was most common. Most common yeah.

Okay. Interesting. You saw your mother as a, you called her a business

woman.

Yeah, well she was because she kept everybody together and she’s, she was, that’s

what she wanna do…get ahead. Get ahead.

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And what about other women in the country? Were there, maybe, any in

government or any other business women that you may have known about or

family?

Well my aunt, my aunt, my aunt was - my aunt was my mother’s sister. And

she’s, she, her husband died with appendix out, appendix, you know. And she left

a baby. She left three kids. And she was in Palermo. She was a - in a big city.

And she just; she raised those kids and she made a business. She made a business

with the – with the leather. And then with the leather, she bought a, she had a

store with a shoe store. Then she buy – then she buy, then she buy a warehouse.

And then she buy, you know, she was wholesaler. She was a wholesaler. She was

a leader.

Wow. And this was your aunt?

That was my mother’s sister.

And so her husband died when the children were young and she…?

One of them was a baby. One was a baby. And she raised three kids. And she

was – she was a leader. She was a leader.

Wow. So there were opportunities if women wanted to take the

opportunities?

Right.

Okay. Alright.

Question #2: So, how did these perceptions about the role of women sort of

influence your ability to become a leader here?

Well, I always wanna be, I always wanna have my own business. And since I was

a baby, I told my dad, “I wanna buy a little grocery store; I wanna make a little

grocery store.” I see my daddy came to America when he was 17 and then he

went back.

Okay.

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He made a lot of money and he bought a lot of property and then…

Bought property here or there?

Over there.

There. Okay.

And he sent the money to my grandfather. Then my grandfather divide it to

everybody. To all the kids. And while my daddy was a good-hearted man and he

didn’t care. He didn’t care. So a matter of fact, one of my uncles, he said, no, I

want this tree. My daddy said, oh take it. Take it. He take it all, you know, it

was half a acre or so. You know, my daddy was a good man. And my daddy,

when he got there he had a business – he had a store and he had a, he was

married and he had two kids with the first wife and uh then they was gonna have

another baby and the wife died at birth and the baby – the baby lived. And my

mother raised the baby. They got married. Now, I think they got married for

necessity. You know what I mean?

So your mother married him?

Right. My mother did marry – my mother marry him and he had three kids and

she raised them. She raised all three. We were seven total. Then with my

mother, she had four more kids. And I was the baby. And my daddy had enough.

When the wife died, she said over there they used to be the credit, you know, to

the people. And when the wife died, he asked one person, she said, “Would you

give me some money?” And she said, “No, I’ll give it to your wife.” And my dad

picked up a match and he burned the book and he didn’t ask nobody else.

He burned the book? What do you mean?

He burned the book with the people names that give credit. And because she

died, everybody was gonna say that, you know what I mean?

He sort of gave up asking is what you mean. Okay.

Gave up asking.

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Okay. Interesting.

And neither one, they want…and he was fed up, you know what I mean?

But they were willing to give it to your mother?

They did not give it, no.

Okay, I misunderstood.

You know, he asked person if he would pay the bill and that person said, “No,

give it to your wife, to the first wife.” You know what I mean?

Oh, to the first wife.

And my daddy said, “Forget about it.” He just picked up a match and he burned

it and he was fed up and he didn’t want no more. But my dream to have - always

have my own business.

Prompted by this sort of background.

Yeah, have my own business, and with God help. A lot of work.

Alright.

Question #3: Describe any home country cultural influences – so Italian

influences -- that supported your leadership development here.

Well my aunt, my aunt, the one that had the store, that one that had the store, she

was a leader. She was 4…she was not even 5 foot. And when I came here, she

said, she, I - my father-in-law used to work here and he went to Italy. And then he

got sick and they asked me if I wanna to work here. I didn’t even know how to

speak English or nothing. And I came here and she put me under her wings and

she…

So she was here?

My aunt, the one - not the store.

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Okay. So different than the one who had the leather business.

No. That’s a totally aunt from another relation.

Oh okay.

And they put me under the wings and they – they made me work here.

Even when you didn’t speak the language.

And I - I used to make sausage. I used to make that by hand. By hand, 65 lb. I

worked hard. 65 lb. And then I used to feel it, you know. She did teach me how

to cook ‘cause she teach me how to, you know, I was only 18. I know how to

cook, you know. She gave me lot of influence. And she - she tell me it was my

duty.

Okay, so before then, you were not…how long had you been here before you

started working in the store?

1967 I came here to work at the store.

Okay. So you were here four years?

I was here - no three years. Because I came at the end of ’63; ’64, ’65, yeah

three - three.

Okay. So you were here three years before you actually starting working in

the store.

Yeah, well I had a baby. I had a baby. I had a baby.

Oh okay.

And then my husband didn’t want me to work. And then I came to work here part-

time.

Okay. So your husband didn’t want you to work. Because of the baby?

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No - believe me, no, me; I wanted to go to work because I was home sick and I

wanna to go see my mom. And I didn’t have - we didn’t have no money. And uh

we, after six years, I went to see my mom.

Oh, okay. So if you worked, you earned some money to be able to go home

and see your mother. Okay. So you just worked part-time.

Part-time. Yeah.

And was your husband okay with you coming to work then?

Yeah. You know…the baby was like home, you know. My mother was living with

us, you know, and she was watching the baby. And…

Oh, your mother came to live here?

No. In-law. [U’s] mother.

Your in-law. Mother-in-law. Okay. So she lived with you so she was able to

help with the baby. So the baby didn’t come here to the store.

Well, she used to come here, too, because it was family. You know what I mean?

Yes, of course. Yeah.

They was family – they used to come here.

Yeah, because I’ve seen lots of, well, daughter and [W] and…alright.

Question #4: So, based on, again, your lived experiences, what are the

personal supports that allowed you to develop as a leader? And you’ve mentioned

some of this already, that, you know, your relatives and your husband. Can you

think of anything else?

No.

Okay, so family?

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My kids, then. Then my cousin was - get blind and they wanna sell it, the store,

but you know we were so naïve, we didn’t have no money with, and we could’ve

gone to the bank and get the money, you know, borrowed money. But we were so

afraid, so naïve.

To borrow money from the bank.

To borrow money from the bank. And then, too, my husband was not, he didn’t

want the store that much…he used to work for [1234]. He used to work for

[1234] and he was not interested too much, you know what I mean?

In owning the store.

Well he used to come – he used to come and help. He used to come and help

here. You know, he used to have three jobs, poor guy. He used to come; he used

to go to work there and then he’d come over here delivering and then he’d go to

work at the dog track; sell ticket. And then on Saturday and Sunday, he used to

do hard jobs, you know, people need work and he used to – he used to do hard

jobs. He worked hard. What we have, we earn it.

Yes, well, and I know you worked outside of the store.

Well, after 11 years, I went to see my mom. And she, like I say, used to work odd

jobs with this friend. And he went to work for this lady and this lady used to work

at [5678]. She was a manager of the deli. And one day they were talking. She

came and she said, “Oh my wife does that kind of work too.” She said, “Work at

the store.” She said, “Maybe someday you’ll give him a job. But some day she’ll

need a job.” And then they didn’t have a deli over here, at [5678] here. They

had it at north side. And they was gonna open this. And she asked my husband

that it was gonna be an opening if I want to. And my husband said, “Well she’s

not here right now; she’s in Italy.” She said,” I wait for her.” And when I come

back, he asked me if I wanna go to work there. And you know, I didn’t want – I

didn’t want my aunt to get mad and my cousin to get mad because they gave me

the opportunity, you know, to work here.

You thought they might get mad if you were not available to work at the

store and you were working...

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Yeah. Right. Right. And I – and I asked them and I told my husband, I said, “You

know, let me ask them and see what they say.” And I asked them and they said,

“You do what you want – what you wanna do.” And I said, “Well, I wanna go

there because I want an opportunity.” And thank God I went, because if I was not

going, my husband stayed one time, he stayed 7 months home with the back. One

time he stayed 3 months home. One time he stayed 2 months home. And thank

God I went, because if I not, I would be…

Just because of the income. So you were financially supporting your family

with the work at [5678].

That’s right. That’s right. And I went there. They were kinda hurt.

Your family?

And I work – at first they say nothing. And then they were kinda hurt. And one

year I worked both places. I worked here and I worked there.

So full time at [5678] and here in the evening or on the weekend or…?

On the day off or if I was going at 12 o’clock the afternoon, I would come in the

morning. You know, not to make them mad, you know what I mean.

Oh, you wanted to keep the family harmony.

Right.

Well you felt indebted, I guess, because they had helped you and even to

learn the language, right?

Yeah. Right.

Once you started working here, you were with customers and you have to,

you’re forced to learn…yeah.

Was forced to learn. Yeah. And I worked there and then – then the same time, my

cousin was really get blind and they, my husband didn’t want it.

Your husband did not want the store.

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No. Because you would really tied up. My kids were getting older. And the kids

– the kids would say mommy you want it, let’s get it.

How old were your kids then?

They would be 17 years ago, 18 years ago. They were older.

How old then?

Well, [W] was – [W] is 42, 42, you know, so like the 20’s. But ? was the mid-

30’s.

So they encouraged you to actually…

And we got the store 18 years ago and you know, then we went to the bank.

Oh you did…to be able to buy it?

Yeah. But thank God they give me, God’s with – with the work, and God’s help,

without God, you don’t get nothing. Give me the opportunity and give my dream.

My dream.

To get the store. Interesting. So your kids helped you, in a way, fulfill your

dream.

Yeah.

If they hadn’t encouraged you to buy it, maybe you wouldn’t have done it,

you think, or you would not have because your husband didn’t want it.

Interesting. So really the store is yours, in a way.

I don’t know.

It happens to be your husband’s family name, but…

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, thank God now with the store, it was down. It was

very down.

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Business, you mean.

Business - it was very down with the, you know, it was nothing in the store.

Nothing.

You mean when you first bought it or…?

When we first bought it. Yeah. And now, you know, my kids, my daughter buy

things, you know what I mean? They go out to the internet and they do this and

they buy, you know what I mean, and now it’s made it more like Italian.

Oh my gosh.

And we were baking and doing things, you know what I mean? We brought it up.

We brought it up.

Oh yes. It’s very festive kind of feel.

Feel like home. Feel like home.

Absolutely. Yes, and it’s very abundant. There’s a lot of inventory and fresh

and it smells good. Yeah.

And after lots of years, if I don’t like something, I don’t sell it. If I don’t like to

eat it, I don’t want you to eat it. You know. And when I make something, I make

it because I wanna eat it, not because I wanna sell it. Because…

If it’s good enough to serve your family…

Family; it’s good enough for the people. I don’t wanna skimp just because it’s for

sale. And I make lasagna and I make homemade – I work hard. I work hard. I’m

70 years old pretty soon.

Seventy. So 69.

Pretty soon. May is 70 years old. And you know, and I make meatball. The other

day I made 1,200.

1,200 meatballs in one day? How many hours is that?

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Oh not too bad. And I made a lasagna. Saturday, I made 21 small lasagnas and

15 big one, lasagna.

The containers. In one day?

Oh yeah.

And how long does that last?

It all depends. For the holiday, my God in the two weeks, it was sold. I made 50

little one and it was sold. And I made 30, the big one, and it was sold. So I had

one left - because I didn’t put it out.

You needed something for yourself.

You know, you know when somebody come and they say how good it is, that’s my

– that’s my gift; you give it to me. You know. That’s my joy.

So that’s sort of your reward that way. Maybe even more than the money.

That’s my reward. More than the money. Yes. More than the money. And when

somebody say Mama [K], they treat me like I’m a mom. That’s a reward, do you

know what I mean? And they wanna know where I’m at and they hug me and they

kiss me. You know. The other day my grandbaby make me laugh. I was at, you

know, this lady came and her husband was with her and she said, “Where’s my

boyfriend?” You know, and my – and my grandbaby said, “How many boyfriends

do you have Nani?” I’d say, “Honey, it’s a boy and it’s a friend. That’s a kind of

friend. It’s a boy, and it’s a friend. Not the other kind of friend. It’s a boy and

it’s a friend.” I mean, you know, 7 years old. This isn’t…

This is how rumors start. How cute. Oh, that’s very cute.

Yeah, how cute. I say, “Honey, it’s a boy and it’s a friend. That’s the only kind.”

So he’s your grandson. So he’s here; he’s 7. Then his dad. Is his day your

son?

My son.

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So I’ve seen him here a lot. And so there are at least three generations here.

Yeah, and my daughter kids too.

They also are here. I don’t know that I’ve…maybe I’ve seen them and I

don’t know that they’re…

They’re big. They’re big. Yeah, one of them, she’s gonna be a nurse. Yeah.

So they’re grown. So there are very often three generations. But you have

other employees.

Yeah, we got three more. Yeah.

Three more. Yeah. And how manages them?

I do. I do. I tell them I’m the boss. That sometimes they don’t treat, you know,

sometimes they don’t uh… you know what I mean? They don’t treat people the

way I want them to treat. And I keep them straight.

And this is, this is all about customer service. This business is all about…

Customer service. They - without the customer, you don’t have a job.

Yeah, exactly.

Without the job, you don’t have a job and you want to pamper them. I like to

pamper them because they’re…most of the people they come here, they’re family

oriented or they’re older people and even if they’re wrong, they’re still right.

That’s my philosophy. That’s my philosophy. And then once in a while I have to

keep them straight.

And what, how do you do that?

Just tell them exactly what I think.

Do you pull them back here so nobody can hear or…? Yeah.

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Yeah.

That’s hard. I…

It’s hard. It is hard.

Because they become your family too if they’re working here, right, so it’s

kind of a…

They, pretty soon they become like they own it.

Interesting. But there’s always at least one of you here.

Always. Always.

Always. Yeah.

Always yeah – always here. And we don’t let nobody run the cash register.

That’s true. I’ve seen your daughter there and your son, I’ve seen.

And my daughter, my granddaughter, my daughter and grandkids.

But no other employee runs the cash register. Yeah, it’s…it’s the way it has

to be, I guess. Alright.

Sometimes. Sometimes some of those, you know, they bring the – they bring the

things, the problem here, and I told them, “Take it home, keep it home.” I even

got mad the other day. I shouldn’t have, but I did.

And what happened? Again, you got upset with somebody.

They just, this is my home. And this is my rule. If you don’t, you leave.

And they were okay?

Yeah.

Managing people, even if it’s your family, there are challenges at times.

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Even your family - it is a challenge. Yeah. It is a challenge. But you have to

show, you have to be fair. Because I was working for other people, you have to

be fair. But they’re not gonna tell me what to do.

Yeah, it’s interesting because you used the example of having worked for

other people, so you know what it’s like to have that kind of relationship,

right.

Right.

Alright.

Question #5: The next question is about professional supports that have

helped you become a leader. So for example, have you taken any kind of training or

from the Small Business Development Center or the Chamber of Commerce, or any

kind of opportunities like that?

No.

None at all? So everything, really, you’ve learned from your family

members who have helped you.

And working. Work with people. And then, like I say, I used to work at [5678]

for 22 years.

Twenty-two years. Wow.

And the lady – that lady said, “I give you a college degree here. A college

degree.” She was mean. She was mean. She was tough. But, you know, I learned

a lot from her. I learned a lot.

Now and did [5678] like provide any kind of training except other than on-

the-job training, obviously.

Job training.

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Question #6: And then the last question, what leadership traits must

immigrant women develop when they come to the United States? Is there anything

in particular you think they…?

Well, my friend, my friend, she went to, she sew.

She sews.

And she worked down the cleaners. She worked there for 37 years. And

she…and her husband died. And I feel like she was, she is a leader. She - her

husband died. She had the kids and she buy houses.

For the children?

No, she buy houses for rent.

Oh, interesting. Now, did she come from Italy also?

Yeah. She came the same day I came.

Exactly the same day. Did you know each other at home?

No, we just know when we got married that my husband was from America and

her husband was from America.

But you met here? Once you came back?

No, I met there. I met there. I went for her wedding.

So you happened to both come to the same place.

Well, we made up – we made it because we never – we never [inaudible 29:05]

you know. We made it to be together, you know, on the plane.

Oh, okay.

254

And we’ve been friends ever since.

But it turns out her, she was also moving to Pueblo, though.

Right.

That’s incredible. From the same community at home.

Not [inaudible 29:25], but 5 kilometers.

So very close and ended up…so she was really…had you sort of stayed in

touch all of the years that you’ve been here?

Yeah.

So you really were kind of provided support for each other. Maybe when

you got homesick or lonely.

Yeah, she used to call, we still call. And she tell me her problem, I tell her my

problem.

Of course.

So her husband died when she was…

Her husband died when she was 48. 48 - she been a widow…she’s 72. She been

a widow 24, 25 years. And, you know, and she was a young woman.

Does she still work?

No she – she quit. She retired.

Yeah, 37 years.

Yeah, she retired, you know. Now, she’s a seamstress. But she provide for the

children. She buy the kids houses. And she buy houses and rent it out. You know

what I mean? And that’s, I have to admit it, that she’s been doing very well by

herself.

255

So when you talk about leadership traits that people must develop here, can

you put a name to that, the kind of quality? Is it persistence or…?

Persistence. I will say… aggressive.

Aggressive.

Aggressive. Aggressive. That’s what I would say. I’m aggressive. I am - my

mind…my husband says my mind is always working, even at nighttime, you know.

Aggressive. I want – I want more. I want more for the children. I don’t want the

children to suffer. I wanna be above water. I don’t want – I never went this way.

Never. Never went for food stamps. Never went for WIC or whatever they call

them. I don’t know what they call them. I never went.

When we came, we didn’t have much. When I came, we didn’t have much. But

you know what, like my kids say, we didn’t know we were poor.

We didn’t know we were poor.

No, because we, I provided stuff for the kids. You know, I remember – remember

my aunt down here, they had more than I had, you know, at that time, you know,

which, you know.

Of course.

And they used to buy steaks, you know, filet mignon; something like that. Me, I

used to get hamburgers and I used to put bacon all around and I used to tell my

kids it was filet mignon.

So creative.

I used to tell my kids it was filet mignon. And my kids will say today I didn’t know

filet mignon was that. Filet mignon; that was hamburger with the bacon. You

know. And really, I used to make clothes. My cousin, you know, the one, the

store they had a…she was big and I was tiny like you. And she used to give me

her clothes and I used to make one for me and one for my daughter with the one

dress. You know what I mean? We used to dress alike.

So with the fabric from hers, you made two?

256

Two, mine and hers. And we were happy.

So you were resourceful with whatever you had.

Right. And we sew and I cook. I make bread. I make pasta, and we, you know,

we were, you know, like I say, we worked very well and we were happy. And –

and I’m still happy. I got two beautiful children and four grandkids. And that’s

all I pray God, just two apiece. Peace in the house…and healthy.

Do you consider yourself a leader in our community?

No. I don’t know.

How do you define leader, in a way.

I don’t know. I just do the best and I want people to be happy when they come

here. I want they get out happy.

You want people to leave your store in a, feeling good and…

Feeling good. Yeah.

I can’t imagine coming to the store and not feeling good. Really. It’s that

kind of a place, right. I think people come here, they know that. Right.

They know that, yeah, they know that.

Well, I think that’s it. Is there anything else you can think of? Any

questions you have for me or anything? No? Okay. Well, I’m going to end

the recording now.

[END OF AUDIO.]

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Western Europe, The Netherlands

Question #1: Based on your lived experiences, describe the perceptions in

your home country about the role of women as leaders.

Well, at the time, I think women were at home taking care of the kids and

husbands went to work and made the living for the family.

And when was that, you would say, at the time?

I was born in 1955, so the women leaders I can remember, of course, you have

your teachers in school and I was thinking of our queen. She was a leader. That

was Queen Juliana. And then her daughter, Beatrice. And I think they were

powerful leaders.

When did you come to the United States?

In ’82.

’82. Okay. Alright. So the role of women…so really the Queen and her

daughter were kind of sort of symbolic as leaders in your country?

I guess so. Yeah. They had powerful positions. But otherwise, yeah. Teachers. I

don’t think there were many other leaders that I had contact with; maybe spiritual

kind of organizations.

Spiritual organizations?

No. Sports.

Oh, sports. Okay.

Just leave the game. I get some kind of course about [inaudible – 01:41] and

basketball, another kind of basketball, I think. [Inaudible – 01:45] but I’m not

sure. I’m sorry. It was long ago. Disregard that.

Oh, okay. Okay. Well, we can come back to that if you think of something.

I think there weren’t that many women leaders.

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There were not that many. Okay. And it might be that some of the other

questions might prompt a memory that you think, oh, you know. So we’ll see

as we go along how that comes out. Okay.

Question #2: Based, again, on your lived experiences – and by lived

experiences I mean exactly the experiences that you’ve had because obviously yours

are different than those of others. Maybe you had a mother who worked or a

grandmother or an aunt or somebody whom, your neighbor or somebody who kind

of influenced you that way. So that’s why we say based on your lived experiences.

Again, how have these perceptions influenced your ability to develop leadership

skills?

I think I’m not a born leader. I think I can lead other people when I’m confident

about what I’m doing and passionate about it. And then I want to share with

others and tell them what to do. Like in my job, I’m a piano teacher, officially – I

don’t have any students right now, but I always had a handful – and we are also

working on the [inaudible – 03:17] and the, how do you say that? We plant the

trees after all the mining they did.

Oh, after the mining. Not after the fires?

Actually, that was here. But that’s okay, right?

Uh huh. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, because it’s me. And so I felt confident and passionate about working

there, so I want to do that with a group of volunteers and tell them what to do.

So then I was a leader.

I was 27, I think, when I came here, and before that time, I didn’t think I did

many leadership things. Just teaching piano.

So you did teach piano at home before coming here?

259

No, a music school. It was music school.

Oh, it was a music school. Oh, okay.

Yeah, it was not quite a full-time job because I couldn’t get that many hours. But

yeah.

Did you go to school for music?

I did conservatory.

At the conservatory. Okay. Alright. Great.

Question #3: Again, based on your lived experiences, describe any home

country cultural influences that supported your leadership development here.

Home country cultural what?

Cultural influences.

Influences?

Uh huh. Uh huh.

Oh women, of course, are allowed to do anything.

They are?

Yeah, we do it. There are no restrictions as limit conflicts.

Uh huh. So allowed to do anything would include get an education, or have a

job or any of those kinds of things?

Yes, it is encouraged. Yes.

It is encouraged.

260

That’s whatever you want to do. I’m in to music, so.

And that was your choice. It wasn’t, necessarily, that a parent or

somebody…?

Actually, my parents were kind of against it. They were afraid I wouldn’t get a

good job with that and I was not outstanding miracle child in piano and just liked

it. So, but yeah, there was nothing else that I really wanted to study. So, for me,

it was an easy choice.

And they supported that even though they were a little concerned that maybe

you wouldn’t get a good job or something; they still were supportive?

Oh yeah. I’m one of six children and they support everybody.

That’s certainly…that’s a family culture too, isn’t it? That kind of…

I’m #4 of the six. I think that might have something to do with it. I think when

you’re the oldest, you have more leader. The oldest in our family is my sister. I

have one sister and I think naturally you are more of a leader then. So she’s very

confident in everything she does. But yeah, I’m kind of lost in the middle.

So the oldest is your sister, and then two boys and then you, and then two

boys again.

Right.

Oh, interesting. Alright.

Question #4: So based on your lived experiences, what are the personal

supports that allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders?

Well, like a personal support?

Well, just like you mentioned about your family, I think, is really significant.

And that would, yeah; so you had what sounds like support from your sort of

nuclear family at home. But then once you’ve come here, what kinds of

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personal support have you had, whether it’s family and continued relations

with the people at home or friends or colleagues in work places?

I got to know a very strong woman leader. I’ll just say her name [X] and she

had…

Who’s that?

[X]. [Participant spells out name].

Reeves.

And she set up different organizations here in town, like [inaudible – 08:02] Safe

House and EWI. I checked with different women international chapter for

Colorado Springs and she also started this program for and what is the

[inaudible – 08:17]. The [inaudible – 08:20] guys do.

Oh, she started that. Okay.

Yeah, and that’s how I got to know her. Then I brought my son there for

volunteer work and I thought, oh, this is cool. I want to do that too. And then I

worked with her and then she made me assistant manager. And she is an

important role model.

Yes. So she made you the assistant manager of the [1234] process or

something.

[1234].

Okay.

[1234].

So she saw something in you that you could…?

Oh yeah. My passion, I think, and how hard I worked and how much I loved it

and yeah.

And meaningful purposeful work.

262

Yeah, I just like playing in the dirt, but then my when she edited out; I was going

to tell them what to do and how to do it.

Question #5: Similar question. But what are the professional supports that

allow immigrant women in the U. S. to develop as leaders? You’ve sort of answered

that, I think, with talking about this individual. So personal and professional. She

kind of maybe carries over into both. She’s a personal friend and yet you work

together as colleagues on the foundation.

I’m actually the same at the flute choir. I played flute in the flute choir and at the

time was maybe 25 people and then it’d grow to be 35, sometimes 40. And the

director/conductor of the choir, I took lessons, flute lessons with her so I’d fit in

better. And she’s a personal friend too. Every now and then we need new leaders

in that organization. So I was happy to do that. And what is that? President; be

president of that club.

Oh, okay.

And so I think that was a leadership role.

Well sure. Now we’re talking and all of a sudden all these things because all

of a sudden because when we were on the phone you were saying, “Well, I

don’t know that I really fit.” Now all of a sudden it’s like, oh, you’re an

assistant manager of that, the president of this. Well yes.

Yeah, a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

And was it called the flute choir? Was that the name of it?

The Pikes Peak Flute Choir.

Pikes Peak Flute Choir.

263

Very fun to play that. It’s all flutes but they have piccolos and then I’ve got an

alto flute and the bass flutes, and now we have contra base flutes and [SIP –

11:06] contra base flute.

So it’s ground two. You think about 40 people?

I think about 30 now.

Okay, okay.

I’m no longer with them, but I play with some people who are in that group and I

set up my own little group. We are four people now. A flute quartet. So we do

performances and sometimes I play my Cello.

Oh fun. And you set up that group.

Yeah. Well, I asked a friend to come play with me and we play duets and then we

said, oh, let’s ask so and so to play and that’s how it grew.

And do you play publicly or…?

Oh, prior to this we were playing retirement centers. We just had a busy time

performing at different locations. We played at Woodland Park for the holiday

home tour. We played at the old Colorado City for the walking…instead of

walking to it, you go to decorated houses. Where it starts and ends; that’s where

we played. So yeah, different retirement centers. We always enjoy that.

Uh huh, uh, huh. That’s nice. So you’ve got all kinds of things going on.

Well, and now holiday time, I suppose there is a lot of opportunity for this.

Just as much as we want, actually.

Which is usually nice.

Because usually we play for free and that [inaudible – 12:41] Sanford, they don’t

have much money to give you any way. We would play for private parties too.

Sometimes people ask us for a women’s group or some specialty at the Baltimore

Ladies Club. I don’t know what they’re called.

264

So in this way it’s sort of service to the community too, then, since you’re

playing for free. You enjoy it. So it’s, yeah. Neat.

Question #6: And then the last question is, again, based on your lived

experiences, what leadership traits must immigrant women in the United States

develop?

Well, they have to be confident. I think that’s the main thing. If you’re not,

you’re just a follower. If you are confident in what you’re doing, then you can

show other people what to do and how to do it in a nice way. If you’re passionate

about it too, of course, yeah.

And is that necessarily something that immigrant women need to have or all

women need to have?

Everybody. Yeah, I think everybody.

Is there anything that make the immigrant woman’s experience more

challenging in this capacity?

Well, if you don’t speak the language well, then people think you’re dumb. So I

think that holds you back. That’s the perception of Americans who haven’t been

in other countries and don’t have friends who don’t speak so well. That makes a

big difference. Then they think you’re only are not very sharp. And it’s just a

language thing.

Yes.

So in the beginning we had that a lot. Like somebody would hold up three fingers

and you say #3.

Yeah.

Of course you do have a lot of misunderstandings in the beginning and I couldn’t

make the difference between the word pen to write with and a pan in which you

cook. The difference between aunt and ant. We don’t have that in Dutch. So we

have a lot of misunderstandings which you kind of guess what people are saying,

265

and they do the same with me. And sometimes they guess wrong and it’s funny.

And sometimes they guess wrong and it’s frustrating. So, yeah. I think learning

language is very important. And that will give you the confidence to do other

things.

So now I’m even a language tutor. I think I told you that on the phone.

Yes, you did.

I tutor people with disabilities. I tutor them in reading and writing. And that

helps me with my pronunciation. Of course, I have to say difference between “a”

and “eh.” And they have a problem that says the difference between “a” and

“a,” which I don’t have a problem with. Like tin and ten. Of course they say

something in between and they don’t know how to spell it. So I have to help them

with that. And that makes me better pronunciater. That’s not a word like that.

But yeah. That’s how it helps each other.

Do you feel that having an accent, it’s one thing to not understand the

language, or not know the language and be able to communicate. But it’s

another if you still have an accent. Does that, in any way, sort of impose

itself on your abilities or opportunities?

I prefer that just helps you.

It helps?

Yeah. I remember when my son graduated from Boulder University, the Director

there held a speech. I think he was from Norway. And he kind of apologized for

his accent and he said, “Well, I just milk it for all its worth.” He was just proud

of it, I think.

And also, I did a class, a speech class at Pikes Peak Community College, and she

said, “Well people from other countries they have an advantage because people

have to listen better and concentrate better when I talk just to understand me.”

So I think it’s not a problem.

Interesting, though, that people have to really listen intently in order to…

Yeah. But I like to hear that.

266

You can’t just be doing 14 things and…

Right. It’s a little harder for somebody else to listen to me. But no problem.

Okay. I’ll live it.

Okay. Good. Alright. Anything; can you think of anything else as we’ve

had our visit that you might want to add?

Probably as soon as you leave.

I know. I know. Which, again, is make sure to email me if there’s anything

that you think about.

Sure.

And I can just include it in my notes even though it’s not on the recording.

So, yeah, if there is anything that you think about after our visit that you

think might be helpful or relevant to any of the questions that I’ve asked, I’m

happy to take that information and add it.

Will you leave the questions with me or you can…?

Well, I hadn’t intended to, but I sure can. Because you might think about

something. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Or you know what I could do,

because this way, then, I’d have it in writing; maybe I can send it to you

electronically.

You can email it. Yeah. That would be easier.

Because that way you can, you know, you can even write in the body of the

email if there’s anything else and send it back to me so then I have a record

of it. Is that alright?

Yeah, yeah.

Good. Alright. And in the meantime, if you want, I can just quick, go over

the questions one more time.

267

Sure.

Do you want me to do that?

Mm hmm.

Alright. Let’s see. I need to minimize my pages, I realize. Alright. So all of

them begin with based on your lived experiences. Describe the perceptions in

your home country about the role of women as leaders. #2; How have these

perceptions influenced your ability to develop leadership skills? #3; Describe

any home country influence, cultural influences that supported your

leadership development here in the United States? #4; What are the personal

supports that allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as

leaders? #5; And what are the professional supports that allow women to

develop as leaders in the United States? And then finally, #6; What

leadership traits must immigrant women in the United States develop?

Yeah. Good questions.

Yeah, I took a lot of time to think through these. Alright. Well, I’ll just send

these to you and if you think of anything else, I’m happy to take them.

Okay, I’ll think about it.

Okay.

If I run to another, of course, I think about it, of course, if it’s something

important.

Yeah. And then I’ve just written here in closing, thank you, again, and just

again the confidentiality piece. And then the follow-up. If there are any

questions you have at any time for me about the study, I can give you the

transcripts after I finish them. And so you can kind of look at them. I’ll

have you look at them and if there’s anything that I didn’t get right or that

you feel like needs clarification, you can provide that then. I’ll have you

initial each of the pages so that it’s clear that you’ve read them and sort of

verified the information and that kind of thing. But that’s it. Otherwise,

anything more?

268

Yeah, I was just thinking. I’m taking Cello lessons and my teacher is definitely a

leader. And so, yeah, I often think of what would she do and…

Oh, and where is she from?

Oh, she is American.

American. Okay.

But I think it helps to just know people who are in leadership positions to kind of

imitate that so you know what you can do and how to do it.

Yeah. So she’s been influential for you?

Yeah.

So how long have you been taking the Cello?

I started about 10 years ago on and off because I’m a piano teacher or have the

training, but then I messed up my arm just doing too much. Also working on

the…

Planting trees.

…mountain [inaudible – 22:02] and working around the house. And so I just

over did it. And then I couldn’t play piano anymore, so I played piano with my

left hand and then I did too much with the left hand. And then at the same time, I

picked up the flute again to play and enjoyed playing flute. I hadn’t played flute

in a long time. So one thing bad leads to something good. And then I really

enjoyed playing with the flute choir and then I wanted something new. I thought

Cello would be fun to do and I started out with that and then I, again, I did too

much. I just, I wait out a year or so where I had to take physical therapy and quit

playing at all.

The last year I’m doing okay with it. Before that, I didn’t play at all for four

years, which was very hard.

The piano for four years.

269

No piano, no flute, no Cello.

Nothing at all?

Yeah, so that was not a good time. I like Russian. I wanted to do something else.

So I thought, “Let’s speak a difficult language.” I like languages. So I knew a

Russian woman here in town. I had taken some Cello lessons with her and so for

one year, I did Russian a lot and I can make simple sentences. And it’s still fun,

but I don’t do much with it.

And then I decided to volunteer and help people with reading. And that’s how I

evolved in to this tutoring, what I’m still doing. And little by little, my arms got

better and now I’m playing a lot of Cello and flute; not much piano because I

think that’s the worst with my fingers. Your fingers go all directions. See, flute is

the easiest. We just do small movements and hands are in the same place. And

with Cello, it’s just the left hand that does all the movements. The right hand does

the work, actually.

But yeah. No, I’m happy again because I can play and perform and I have friends

again. See, when I couldn’t do anything, I kind of lost all my friends.

Gosh, yeah. You said four years that you were…

Yeah, four years it took. So I’m so happy I can play again.

Nice, good. Alright. Well.

It was fun talking to you.

Yeah, fun to talk with you. I’m going to go ahead and…

I really hope it helps.

Oh, absolutely. I’m going to go ahead and just turn this off.

[END OF AUDIO.]

270

[BELOW IS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SENT BY STUDY

PARTICIPANT VIA EMAIL AFTER TRANSCRIPTS WERE PROVIDED

TO STUDY PARTICIPANTS FOR VERIFICATION AND

CLARIFICATION PURPOSES.)

Question #1: Based on your lived experiences, describe the perceptions in

your home country about the role of women as leaders.

A) I said: women just stayed home with the kids. But thinking back to my

childhood, I’d say that running a large household like my mom did certainly

qualifies you as a leader. Although my dad was in charge of money and organized

the family vacations, my mom juggled the 6 kids and our friends and various

animals, 2 cleaning women, grandma on Sundays, all the delivery men, the

seamstress, the shoe repairman, the shopping and cooking, the birthday parties,

on and on. Hooray for my mom, I admire her!

B) There is another person who was a leader to me. When I was about 18,

19, and 20 I took guided backpacking trips into the Alps in Austria in summer. It

was for people my age, about 15 in all. There is a nice hut system and we would

hike from hut to hut for a week, carrying our clothes and breakfast things. Our

guide was the same woman every year, and she was great. We would travel to

Austria by train. Of course real leadership skills show when things go wrong:

once I got sick and she made me stay in a bed and breakfast place. Another time

someone fell and had to go down to a village to see the doctor. I never realized till

now how much I admire that.

Question 2. Based on your lived experiences, how have these perceptions

influenced your ability to develop leadership skills?

The next year I decided to go to the mountains on my own with a group of

friends. I asked a guy I knew from the previous trip to go with me and he asked if

he could bring a friend of his. And so I met my future husband. From then on we

organized our own yearly backpacking trips.

271

Question 4. Based on your lived experiences, what are the personal supports

that allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders?

In 1982 I was living with my now-husband when his work [5678] asked

him to go live in the US for 1 or 2 years. He asked me to go with him. I was

reluctant at first, giving up everything I knew, but did not want to be left behind

and decided to get married so I could go too. [5678] sent out 9 Dutch families

together. The guys knew each other already, but the women became good friends

real fast. We had fun going to [3478] for ESL classes and discussing all the

strange American habits. As residential aliens we were not allowed to work. Some

women did volunteer work in the hospital, I taught piano lessons to several of the

Dutch kids. Later on, some went back to The Netherlands, while others moved to

different parts of the US.

272

Asia, Lebanon

Question #1: Based on your lived experiences, describe the perceptions in

your home country about the role of women as leaders.

Typically, women are not, they don’t take like political leadership or… uh but

they do take you know like lower level leadership positions. Shopkeeper is a

leader. A teacher is a leader. You know. The woman in her house is a leader.

So, but, you know, we’re not like involved a whole lot in politics and major

decision making, you know, on a national level.

How long have you been in the United States?

Hmm - about 30 years.

Thirty years. Okay. And you mentioned you were in Seattle before…

Before Colorado. Yeah.

And came to Colorado. Okay. Alright. And to confirm, English was not

your first language.

No.

Okay. Yeah, right.

Question #2: So, again, based on your lived experiences, how have these

perceptions of women in your home country as leaders influenced your ability to

develop leadership skills?

Well, in my house as such, you know, I have; I felt; now I’m aware of it that I was

treated differently from my two brothers. And to this day, my mother would take

advice from my two brothers before she listens to me, even though here I am, a

PhD candidate and you know highly educated and all, there’s always – and I feel

it even more now at this point in my life. Yeah.

Interesting.

273

Yeah, and it’s a good thing that I’m aware of it because I am, you know, I’m

doing something about it. I’m not – I’m not letting it affect my potential. Okay.

But on the other hand, there was a very… there was a lot of encouragement and

stress on education and doing well at school and performing well and…

For both genders; your brothers and you no matter what.

For both genders, yeah. But I’m the one who was in ballet and piano and, you

know, the girlie kind of stuff. And I, in my teens I kind of rebelled against it

because I’m French educated and the French kind of, you know, the French

values come up - kind of really formed my thoughts. So I did rebel against it.

And you know, when I had a chance, I just left. You know - mostly because of the

civil war in Lebanon, I left and then, you know, I - on my own, I did what I

wanted to do.

You left Lebanon?

Yeah.

On your own?

Yeah.

And what brought you to the United States?

Well I, you know, I still had my master’s thesis defense to do, and so I wanted to

come and find a job here. Go back, defend, and do my PhD I always wanted to

do my PhD here. So it didn’t work out. And then I’d been in Saudi Arabia for

three years.

Oh my.

Yeah.

So you left Lebanon for Saudi Arabia? Not intentionally, but…

274

I left Lebanon here, and then I went to defend my thesis in Lebanon and there

happened to be an interviewer from Saudi Arabia who wanted English teachers

and this is how I ended up there.

Wow. Okay. Okay. Interesting. And so when you came to the United

States, you were single? As a single person?

Well, you know, I had a green card, so I came…like the first time I came and I

stayed a few months; yeah, I was single. Then after Saudi Arabia, I got married

to an American and came here.

Okay, and came together. Okay, okay. I wanted to ask, when you said

about your mother and how she treated your brothers differently, were you

younger than they are. Where are you…?

I’m younger. I’m younger than both.

Okay, so you’re the youngest of three.

Yes.

So did that have any influence on…?

It may have, but it’s mostly a gender thing. She was treated that way. I mean she

was pulled out of school so that her brother could go to school. They didn’t have

the money to put them both in school, so she got pulled out so that her brother

gets the education.

And school was college level?

No, it was high school.

Oh, isn’t that something?

Question #3: Alright, so based on your lived experiences, describe any home

country cultural influences that supported your leadership development here.

Say that again.

275

Okay, describe any home country cultural influences that…

Home country meaning…?

Lebanon.

Lebanon.

Uh huh. That supported the leadership development here.

Well, you know, I think that Lebanese, in general, have this, and maybe less now,

but we always had this feeling of being superior than the rest of the Middle East.

I feel, so we are the Lebanese, you know because we had such a strong western

influence – speaking languages, you know, always had lots of tourists growing up

and… went to a French school, as I told you. So I, you come here and you see the

Lebanese around you and they still speak that way; like we are the better species

here or something. I don’t necessarily feel that way now anymore. But there was

this feeling like, hey, we come here; we’re westernized. We can do whatever the

western world can do. And indeed the Lebanese, in general, here, excel. They do

very well. So.

It sounds very much like Iranians in lots of ways.

Yes.

Question #4: So, again, based on your lived experiences, what are the

personal supports that allowed immigrant women in the U. S. to develop as a

leader?

What personal supports? Well, my family. My husband’s always been

supportive.

And he’s American?

He’s American. Yeah. You know, I – I don’t feel that I had, that I needed any

support, you know. It’s like, I was very, and I am a very self-motivated person.

276

So, you know, it’s like I wanted to do it and I was highly motivated to do it,

regardless of support or no support. So I – I don’t feel that I necessarily had any

support. And so I, you know, when it was time for me to start my PhD, I just did

it. I went and found the resources and did it.

And you mentioned as a young girl having rebelled a little bit against maybe

not having the personal support in a way.

About not being…I mean I wanted to do what I wanted to do and there was no

stopping me. So I had this rebellious personality. Yeah.

Do you have children now?

Yes.

And how do you...do you have daughters?

No.

No. No daughters.

Four boys.

Oh my gosh. I wondered how much you were, sort of background influenced

how you would be with a daughter, but you don’t have one, so it’s…

I have daughter-in-laws.

Daughter-in-laws. Okay.

I have daughter-in-laws and you know, they’re all college educated. I’m pushing

them to go into a master’s degree and I am, you know, I help them write their

purpose letter. So I’m really pushing for higher education for my sons for their

wives. So…and that’s very much a Lebanese mentality overall. We really do

value education.

It really does sound so much like Iranians.

277

Question #5: Again, based on your lived experiences, what are the

professional supports that allow immigrant women in the U. S. to develop as

leaders?

Professional support? I don’t know.

Mm hmm. For example, may you have been in a position where you had a

mentor who’s guided you or kind of pushed you or…?

You know, I don’t feel that there was a whole lot of professional support. You

know, I worked in grade school, for example. And I didn’t feel – I mean maybe

more training in terms of, you know, in my field. Yeah. Especially in - when

you’re working in public school, there more training. Other than that, you know,

I did go to [1234] and got another master’s degree, and now I’m doing my PhD

And, again, I feel like it’s, I mean I am the driving force. Okay? I don’t feel like I

have a whole lot of support professionally.

Uh at [5678], where I’m working right now, there’s, you know, I started the

Arabic program and I struggled through that to develop it and uh, in fact, every

time I tried to get professional support, I did not because of budget concerns and

things like that. So it’s really, I don’t feel like I had a whole lot of support, at

least in the field I’m in.

And yet you were asked to start the program there?

Yes.

Interesting. With not much support.

With not much support. You know, this is when the economy kind of took a nose

dive. So it’s always related to budget, and it’s a very small program. And, you

know…

And how long ago is that, that you began that program?

Seven years ago. I don’t know; 7th

year now.

Okay.

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Right before that I was [at other higher education institutions]…

Oh, okay. Alright. So higher education for a long time?

Mm hmm.

Interesting. Okay. And you said it’s a small program. How many students

are in it at this point?

This – this year it has grown quite a bit, and so, like this second quarter I’m

gonna have about oh 55 students overall.

Wow. And you teach all of that?

Yes, I’m it. I’m it.

You are it. Wow.

Yeah, we’re getting to a point now where we’re gonna have to hire an adjunct.

So which, you know finally, finally, my efforts are paying off at least.

Yes. Fantastic. And the students are from what kinds of backgrounds?

They are mostly American students. Uh - most of them in international studies.

Okay. Mm hmm.

A few religion, a few heritage students.

Interesting. That’s fantastic.

Question #6: Again, based on your lived experiences, what leadership traits

must immigrant women in the U. S. develop?

I don’t feel; I don’t necessarily feel that we get easily integrated. Okay, we do

have superficial – at least me – I feel I have superficial friendships, but it’s never

at the level that I have with someone that I grew up with who’s from a similar

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background. So you have to go through it and not so much care about it because

this is how it is. People don’t like people who are different from them. Okay -

they say, yes, they do. They love the diversity. They love that you’re different, but

when it comes to doing things together, when it comes to developing a close

friendship, it is not; you’re not their first choice. They go to the people that are

more like them. This is how I feel overall.

So even though you have an American husband; you raised your children

here, you still have that sense?

Yeah.

Interesting. So not quite fully integrated.

Not fully integrated, but more integrated in the church, you know, of people who

have common belief and… but even then, it’s, you know, very friendly,

very…but…

A kind of superficial sort of…?

Yeah. Not best friend. Not like somebody who’s from the same roots as you.

And is that specific to immigrant women or generally speaking all people?

I - it’s hard for me to say, but I would say it’s definitely true for immigrant

women.

And you mentioned church. So you do go to church and that provides some

sort of social supports.

Yeah, but there’s also my lifestyle that does not really lend itself to any social

activities or any social life as such.

Because you work in Denver? Is that what you mean?

Yeah, I work in Denver. I’m doing a PhD I have a big family. So, you know, it’s

not enough time.

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Yes, life is…there are not enough hours in the…I know exactly what you

mean. Alright. Is there anything else that you can think of that we should

discuss?

No, I mean, I – I think that a leader is a leader, you know, if you have the

character of a leader. And I think this is where I come from, you know wherever,

whatever small group I get into, I’m not a watcher. I’m not just a passive

participant. I become a leader. Okay? That’s me. And I don’t know if that’s true

for everyone. [G] is the same way. Okay. There are some people who are just

happy to be passively part of a group without really participating. So, I don’t

know that this is because I’m an immigrant. I think it’s more of a character here

than…

I agree. I think the fact that you stepped up to participate in the interview.

Like whoa!

Yeah, oh, you know, I feel with you because I’m looking for subjects and it’s like...

Yeah, it’s not easy.

No.

Okay, well, I think that’s it. I will have this transcribed and I have a

confidentiality agreement that the transcriptionist has signed and she’s

terrific. When you get to that point, if you need somebody, she’s a great one

to do that. And if there are any sort of gaps in my understanding, you know,

specific to this, I will definitely reach out to you again if you wouldn’t mind.

Sure. No, no.

By email or…

Of course.

I don’t think I have your phone number, come to think of it. Might I take

that from you? Is that okay or do you prefer email communication?

You know, you can take my phone number. Email is the best way to.

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Is better. Alright. And the other thing I’m doing is I’m sending all of the

questions to my participants after our interviews in case…each one of them,

so far, have said, “I know I’ll think of some other things that I should have

told you after we visit.” And so in case you think of anything else that maybe

we should have talked about, you’ll have the questions and you can, again,

send an email to me in response to them. If that’s okay.

Sure.

Alright. Do you have any questions or anything for me?

I don’t think so.

No. Okay. Great.

Good luck. It is going to be hard to analyze this.

Yes. Yes it will be.

[END OF AUDIO.]

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Asia, India

Just keep in mind that all of the questions will be based on your lived

experiences, so not necessarily something you’ve maybe read about or learned about

or, you know, associate’s experiences. But just based on your personal/professional

experiences.

Question #1: So, given that, describe the perceptions in India about the role

of women as leaders.

Well, India is a country which had a prime minister beginning in 1970’s, so they

really respect women. And even before that, centuries ago, we had women

queens. We respected them so much. Like Rani Lakshmibai - all of those people

who fought for the freedom and so they always respected women’s liberation and

they always go for it and they encourage women.

And women in India probably have one of the highest numbers of women

physicians.

In India?

In India. And probably they graduated in India and they’ve immigrated out,

but…

In other parts of world.

To other parts of the world. But they’re always encouraged women to go to, get a

good education. And I come from a family who always encouraged me. There’s

no way I would have become what I am, do what I’m doing without their

encouragement.

Without that. Okay. And so you mentioned medical profession and

government politics. Any other industries in which there are lots of women

that you know of?

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Absolutely. Recently, I mean probably - I don’t know who it is now or not; the

CEO of the Pepsi Cola was an Indian woman.

Oh yes, Indra Nooyi. She still is. Yes. Yes, and what about in India?

Even in India, there a lots of people who are in business running a very successful

small scale business, big businesses, everything, including lots of MBA graduates

for the CEOs of big companies.

So that in all in the fields, including attorneys, engineers; they’re in lots of field.

Is there a socio-economic component in this in terms of maybe educated

families encouraging the daughters to pursue…?

It used to be like that once upon a time. Now people have realized even in the

very, very low socio-economic status, what education can provide in the future.

So they’re encouraging, even in the lowest socio-economic group, you talk to

them, they say no, I don’t want my child to be a laborer; I want my daughter or

my son to go and get education.

Having said that, I’m sure there are still lots of people who probably still think

they don’t need education. The women don’t need to be educated. And part of

that, even the women take conduct role and think it’s okay not to be educated; my

husband will provide for me or my father my provide for me.

And at the same time, there are lots of women who want to be completely

independent.

And you go home often enough, so your ideas about this are current. It’s not

probably…

It is. It is quite current. No. Not from centuries ago.

Tell me, when you came to the United States and why.

I came to United States July of 1989.

’89.

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Yes. We were in Europe. My husband was studying in Europe. Once he finished

his education, it was always my dream to get some education in the United States.

So he agreed and he respected my beliefs and my wishes.

So we came here. I got into a good residency, then a fellowship, and we -

somehow the country grow on us.

So you came together and he was…

I came first.

Oh, okay.

He was still working in Sweden when we came to U. S. I finished my exams. I got

into residency. And then he came here.

Okay. So you were here without him for how long?

Three, four months.

Not long. Okay. So he was supportive of your pursuing what it was you

wanted to do.

Yes.

Terrific. Thank you.

And that was the – the only reason why we did it that way; so he could still be

working and earning. So both of us would not be without a job at the same time.

Oh, I see. So it was as much practical as it was anything.

Yes, anything else.

Okay. Terrific.

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Question #2: Again, based on your lived experiences, how have the

perceptions of women leaders in India influenced your ability to develop leadership

skills?

And I see all these people whether it could be the politician or it could be the

household - leader at home. Like it could be my grandmother. It could be my

mother. And I see how they run the family. It’s so important. They always say

it’s a woman who can make or break a family. So I always thought it does not

have to be a leader out in the community, even at home. How you bring up. And

what here they say, the hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.

Oh, I love that. Yes.

And so that’s how I was brought up and said - where they said, “No, you can go

and do what you want and achieve what you want.” And then I saw the leaders

in the community whether in India or anywhere else. And they can do all those

and the people who have come from even more hardships than I had, if they can

come up, why can’t we? It’s just a feeling that, “Oh no;” that self-sympathy is

the worst enemy.

Self-sympathy.

Yeah, I would not recommend self-sympathy for anyone. Seeing a woman, I’m

downtrodden. No. You go and get what you want.

Now did your mother work?

No.

No. Okay. Did you have sisters?

No.

Just brothers?

No.

You’re the only child.

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Yes.

Oh. And your mother did not work?

She did not work.

But she was very encouraging.

Very encouraging.

And your father?

He’s in business. He went to college. Finished his second year in college. I

come from a family, everybody is in business. They’re not; they’re educated, but

not professionals.

Oh okay. And what about your husband?

My husband is a physician. His father was a physician too.

Okay. And was your marriage arranged?

Partly arranged. Let’s put it that way. Our families encouraged us to meet. And

then we met and we decided whether we wanted to get married or not.

Oh, okay. So you did; you were introduced and…

Introduced. Yes.

Beyond that, it was on your own in a way.

Yes.

Terrific.

Question #4: So, based on your lived experiences, again, what are the

personal supports that have allowed you to develop as a leader here?

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My biggest support, again, is my family. My husband, my parents, my kids.

They’ve been extremely supportive.

And in what way have the children helped you?

The children have always been very, very supportive. If I go home late, they

never complain. And if I feed them say leftovers, they don’t care about that. And

even to this day, they will not; I mean kids are kids, sometimes they might

complain. I’m not saying no, but at the same time, they’re like mom, don’t worry.

You are working hard. Don’t worry about this. We’ll take care of it.

And have you been able to integrate into the community as far as friends who

have provided support in those ways too?

Yes, yes, absolutely. I mean all the friends and the community; the local

community has been very supportive. It could be my fellow physicians, the people

who work at the hospitals, or anyone, even the - my patients, I have to say, and

even my staff. They’re like my family, honestly.

That’s nice. Do you know other Indians in the community with whom you

sort of connect regularly?

We do. We do.

Good. Alright.

Question #5: What are the professional supports that have helped you in

your leadership role?

Well as I said, the physicians I work with and all the professional staff whether at

the hospital or anywhere else. They’ve always been very supportive, very kind to

me, and including – I know this sounds really funny – but including the hospital

CEO has been very supportive. Mr. [T] or [C]; those are the only two people I

know. Nice - they have been very nice and supportive.

And you did your fellowship here, where, when you first came?

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I did my residency at [1234] in Texas. From there I went to [5678] in Minnesota

where I did my neurology. And then I did my epilepsy fellowship again at [5678]

in Minnesota.

Okay, gosh, you’ve gone back and forth a number of times before…

No - the only time I moved was from Texas to Minnesota. The rest of my training

was all in [5678] in Minnesota.

Okay, and then you came here, finally. It wasn’t 1989 that you came here…

’96. 1996.

1996 here. So you’ve been here…

Since ’96. Eighteen years.

Yeah, that’s a long time. It’s grown on you.

Yes, it has.

Question #6: Alright, what leadership traits do you think immigrant women

coming to the United States should have?

Self confidence and believe in yourself. And, of course, you have to work hard

and just be available and do the best; dedicated to whatever you do.

No matter what it is.

No matter what it is. It could be whatever job you like and what you are doing.

Just be dedicated.

And for you, language hasn’t been, really, an issue because when you started

school you learned English.

That’s correct.

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But for some of the participants, you can imagine, language has been a really

big challenge. Hard.

Yes, and what amazes me is lots of those people, how well they’ve learned English

and how well they’ve incorporated themselves into the society. That amazes me.

So personally you know some people who have struggled with that and have

overcome?

Yes. Struggled and yet they’ve overcome and they’ve done a great job. Even

working at [5678], there were some people from Japan who could write these

papers so beautifully. They may not be able to speak English as good, but they

could write so well in English and they were very good authors and they did a

great job.

Wonderful. Okay. I think that’s it. Yeah, is there anything that you feel like

I should have asked you that I didn’t that may be helpful to my study?

No, I think you asked all the right questions and if there’s anything I can do, let

me know.

Okay. Terrific. And I will send you the questions in case the minute I walk

out of the door, I’m sure I’ll think about something I should have asked

you…

No problem. Anytime, you can call me or ask.

Okay.

And if I didn’t call you back right away it’s because I’m with a patient or

something, but as you know, I will call you.

Okay. Terrific. Great.

Okay. Absolutely.

[END OF AUDIO.]

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Asia, Taiwan

Alright, so if you would just let me know when you came to the United States

and for what reason.

I came 1981 to study graduate school. I graduated: I got a Bachelor’s degree

from Taiwan and I came here to just get advanced degree – master’s and

doctorate.

And did you come by yourself?

I came totally alone.

Totally alone.

Just myself.

And how old were you?

I was…I turned 24.

24.

Yeah, June and then I came.

Okay. Terrific. So all of the questions will be based on your lived

experiences, so not things that you may have learned or read or studied in

these years.

Okay.

Question #1: Based on your lived experiences, describe the perceptions in

Taiwan about the role of women as leaders.

Since I spent most of my adult life here, I - my experience will only be before I

came over here. So it will be very limited. It will be my experiences with my

family, my teachers, and…

291

And I will ask questions about personal influences and professional supports

and things like that. But sort of generally speaking, what’s the perception

about women and the possibility of them as leaders in Taiwan?

Okay. I think people perceive men and women differently. And see, again, I – I

have very limited experience. I think, naturally, people will perceive men as

leaders more than women and when we look at women, I remember we have some

professors or some teachers from school. The first thing that people are

concerned about is, “Oh, is she married?” You know, we would never do that

with a male teacher. We would say, “Oh, look. She’s 30 and she’s not married.”

So is it that women professors weren’t married or maybe…?

We have this one professor came back from United States and I heard people

comment a lot, not so much on her teaching, but on whether she’s married;

whether she has boyfriend or she pays attention how she talks to other people. So

I think there’s a gender difference there definitely.

There is. And has that changed in the years that you’ve been here?

Like I said, I don’t know about Taiwan, but when I came over here I noticed that

also there’s a lower seating for women…

Ah, even here.

Even when I was here, I think, people automatically gives male leaders more

authority.

So in Taiwan now you don’t know, kind of, have things changed much? Are

women perceived any differently now? Do you know?

I think there are definitely places for women because I have – I have a couple of

sisters stayed there and they were, not just they were, they all you now have

doctorate degrees and they were not just professors, they are also administrators.

Ah, so they’re still in Taiwan.

Obviously, there are places for them.

292

Okay. Okay.

One is retired and the other one is still working.

Okay. So even though there might…

But it’s, again, I don’t know whether it’s gender or their personality, but I feel

like they are not fully utilized or respected as a leader. You know what I’m

saying? They have a lot of frustration and this and that.

Your sisters specifically.

My sisters. But I don’t know whether it’s, again, because of their ability or

because of the gender. Since I wasn’t there and I’m not…

But nonetheless, what you’re saying is they stayed there and they have

accomplished these roles.

I’m sure they are more open now. They are more open. There are more places

for women, I should say. Because I, yeah…that’s my impression.

Okay.

Question #2: So, based on your lived experiences, again, how have these

perceptions influenced your ability to develop leadership skills?

I wanted to say it could be personality, but it could be very well culture because

once we heard most people say, “Well, Asian women are quiet,” or something,

and I feel like I, I’m very…I limit myself before people even limit me. Do I make

sense?

Yes.

I feel like, and I never thought about it because of, due to the perception, you

know, and so it’s the first time you asked me.

Interesting. So you limit yourself before people limit you.

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I’m very careful on what I would say.

Based on what this is what I think people should think of me, in a way.

Right. I want to always say the right thing, do the right thing, take the right

action, and sometimes that little hesitation; I will pass the opportunity to speak

out or to speak up.

And you think that’s specific to the fact that you are an Asian woman and

the perception that you think people have of Asian women as being…

At first I thought you know probably my personality. But I think a lot of Asian

women, not all, I mean there’s definitely some that are more outgoing.

Interesting.

I would; I’ll be very curious to see the proportion, you know personality-wise.

You can also say culture nurtured the personality because I remember when, oh,

I remember when I was in China doing a workshop one time, and we were doing

the business, you know, the business personality thing...

Yes. Uh huh. Johari Window?

No Briggs.

Oh Briggs, Meyers. Yes.

Briggs, Meyers. And I asked them, you know, “How many of you think that you

are introverts or extroverts,” - and all that questions; just asking? And they

don’t, very few, first of all, very few responded to me. There are men and women

and all that. And this woman look at me almost resentful and just said, “What do

you mean? We are all introverts. We should be all introverts.” We should be.

We have a lot of should in our culture.

Yes.

So I think maybe personality was encouraged or nurtured by the culture. You

have to be quiet. That’s a virtue. You cannot speak up. You cannot argue for

your own benefit because that’s bad. It’s a bad thing to ask. You should always

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give and provide. And so all my life, I can count how many times, I mean maybe

a couple of times that I even when I was looking for a job, I would say, “Oh, at

least he would match my current salary.” I don’t even go ask for a raise. All my

life I didn’t go. And I look, you know, this – this other director went and this, he

gets something; he gets even a position for VP where they don’t have a need for.

And with my position, it was very, actually a good position. I never went and

asked for a raise all my life, all my career. I mean I get them. But not initiated

by me.

Interesting. So you get them based on your qualifications and abilities and

skills rather than because you’re assertive and kind of going after it.

Right - yes.

Interesting. The conference where the Asian woman said, “No, we’re all

introverts,” was that after you’d been in the United States and went to China

for this conference?

Yes, yeah I was here. I was here and that’s the last 10 years maybe, within the

last 10 years. Maybe 8 years ago. I went there and I was thinking, you know, “I

can introduce them to this interesting personality thing” and help them to use

this to, you know, for the business management use.

So did they even know what the definition of extrovert was? Maybe that’s

not even a word in the language.

Oh they are, but they are the ones that were pressed down, repressed. They even

have a saying, it’s funny, that um the gun will shoot the bird that stick their head

out. So anybody that speak up. It’s very different from the squeaking wheel thing

here. Because the squeaking wheel gets – gets what they want. Over there, if

you dare to show differences, you’re the one; you’ll be targeted. That’s our

Chinese saying. Imagine that. It’s believed in everybody.

Yeah. And it’s such a distinction, the collectivist cultures versus

individualistic ones. China versus the United States.

Chinese is a very, very collective ideology. Everything. The value.

Group harmony is key, isn’t it? So if you do stick out…

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It’s required. It’s required.

Yeah. Isn’t that something? How did the other Chinese attending the

conference react to the person’s comment or was there any reaction?

They, I think, mostly agree and thinking well this person is outspoken.

Interesting. So she was outspoken in a culture that doesn’t honor that and

yet they were in agreement with what she was saying. Is that what

you’re…?

I think I probably posed a threat, that she feels it’s challenging her belief. And so

even though as an introvert, she had to speak up to say that you’re challenging

us. I feel threatened.

Yeah. And how do you not know that? Right. That you’re posing this kind

of…

Yeah. Why do you even ask?

Yes. That’s what I mean. Like, you know, presenting this kind of a thing in

a…interesting. Yeah.

Now that you mentioned it, it’s the “should.” I think all my – all my life my

mother was a director to a, you know, in the high school, in middle school. She

was a counselor and she built the guidance office. But all her life she lives on

“should.” So we can present something that looks perfect, but that’s what we

should be doing, we should be saying.

Yes, it’s interesting. I’m writing this down. I’ll give this to you. Phuc Tran,

Vietnamese immigrant to the United States, but left for sort of political

reasons. His family came to this country. He talks about the differences in

the language and specifically verb tenses and the subjunctive, which is

should have, could have, would have. And he says, “In Vietnamese, we don’t

have that verb tense.” And it’s so different in the United States where all of

a sudden having this verb tense sort of creates opportunities.

Different perspective.

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I could do this. Yes. He says it’s completely different. There, it’s all about

sort of the present. And this is what’s happening, and this is reality. So

there’s no sort of opportunity, in a way or possibility in the language and

how much in that way, then, language influences the way you think, and the

way you act. It’s fascinating. I’ll give you the information about it. But it’s

exactly what you’re talking about. The subjunctive.

Question #3: Describe any home country cultural influences that supported

your leadership development here. And we’ve talked quite a lot about culture, but

can you think of anything in particular that is a cultural influence that may have

somehow benefited you as a developing leader?

I think culturally, we will probably encourage more what can you – what can you

provide to make the whole thing work. So it’s more like encourage to be a team

player. I’m not saying team players is a wrong concept. But it’s more of selfless.

Okay. And then I remember several times during my years they would say, “Well,

you should come to me and tell me what to do, what I need to get, what the

leaders or…” the supervisors would tell me that. So that opens my eyes a couple

of times that oh, I should; yeah, because even though this person may be a

supervisor, but does not have the expertise of what I know.

So the supervisor is actually saying to you, come to me and let me like

understand your knowledge, or help you develop your knowledge? What?

Teach me or give me advice. Yes, because before we were like, “What can I do

for you?” You know what I’m saying? We’re taking commands. We will do and

we will perform a perfect project. But it’s under request and only when they ask

or something. I mean we have our routine things we will do, but that’s our

mentality to go in there to do our best to make you or the group look better. And

don’t even talk about myself.

And what about this notion of taking initiative?

Taking initiative is not encouraged. Nowadays I think it’s changed. I really do

see a lot of entrepreneurs in China or Taiwan. You know, people - young people

can just do whatever and then, so I know it’s certainly encouraged in the

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educated world. I mean even in the poor place, they probably go out and trade

and sell things and to build themselves.

Men and women you think?

Probably, probably. Probably oh that’s right. Gender. Because I bring the old

value system here and I didn’t catch up with the new from the home country. And

I’m still having the old one and with the Chinese one, the Chinese value that

probably nobody recognize now anymore or identify with, but then I’m still

having it.

But it is what’s influenced you.

It is what has influenced me. I would say even after I retire, I wish I would do this

earlier, you know, just stand out for myself earlier. You know I’m fine. Because

the nature of my job is actually okay because it’s very objective. It’s data. But

still, even though I wrote some paper, I talked to some people, I could be more

persuasive. I could be more pushing because I think some of the idea or

knowledge that I have is actually stronger and very beneficial. But I will just

bring it up and then people, if they hear it, they listen and if they want, I just let it

go. I feel like I’ve done my presentation; I did my job. But I – I almost feel like I

could have led them, you know, and it could be different.

But you’re right. You could have led them. Even as I’m writing this, I think

about that. How much is it that I’m objective versus I’m subjective. You

know there is something I want to get out of this, right. And so how

much…?

More and more I’m realizing that. This other man or this other person, they don’t

know as much or they’re not better.

What they know is different. It’s not necessarily better or…it’s just

different. Right. Everything that we bring to the table, let’s say…

Better in terms of come up with solutions or ideas.

Tell me what it is that you’re doing right now in terms of work?

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I am – I was institutional research director, so I was Director of Institutional

Research and Analysis. We do…

For the University?

For the university. We collect student information, course information, and

report as public institution, we have to report student’s performance and we have

to link that with financial data, budget office, and um kind of to be accountable

for the taxpayers’ money. And all other institutions have this office. It’s called

Institutional Research. All the data, official data that you see from all the

universities are from this office. I was – I was the director for that office.

How long were you there?

Thirteen years.

Thirteen years. And you; have you done consulting work otherwise?

Afterwards or during?

Anytime.

I did some research, you know, I help people to design their research and then I

analyze, and yes, some. But mostly just research, not at the point to tell them

what to do. I tell them what the data was saying. But that a lot of times is

sufficient. So I help some city at [1234] doing, they were deciding which cable

company or whether, you know, and I did some study for them. I did a smoking

study; smoking ordinance.

Oh, for [5678]?

For [5678].

Oh.

That one that several years ago. And it was publicized. Through CDC and NBC

news. I was the statistical analysis for the [inaudible 20:27]. Yeah. So I do

different pieces for different people. But mostly research analysis.

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Okay. Terrific. Thank you.

Question #4: What kind of personal supports have allowed you to develop as

a leader here? And that could be home, family. It could be family here, friends,

colleagues at work.

Actually my husband is a great support because I can discuss different things and

issues with him. I have a couple of director level friends, I mean, you know, we

have also, in terms of professionally, we have the same counterpart offices from

different so I have this professional association for IR, Institute of Research,

nationally, and we do have one sub group that was formed by overseas Chinese

IR people. For one thing, I mean IR is more technical; however, the nature of the

position should be way more than technical. We should give a lot of management

involvement and advices. But the fact that a lot of Chinese are in there because it

involves so much statistics and technical work.

So we can do very good job. It took us many, many years for some of them to

actually get promoted to give more idea to give more information.

It’s interesting. It might be numbers, but the numbers represent human

behavior. Right.

And it’s very important in this world now because I think management makes

decisions based on evidence, based on, you know, they call it data driven

decisions. So the position should go further. I mean we can have the data, but

what do you do with it? And what kind of device, that’s why I think we see a lot of

things going on and people – they make decisions and we say, “Why did he make

this kind of decision?” But, again, it depends on how – how the supervisor, how

the president in our line of work, how the president wants to look at data, you

know. Some of them, in my experience, some of them very much value data, and

then we can talk, communicate easily. But some of them - for some of them, they

are not familiar with data. They just make decisions based on their experience or

intuition.

Or even your suggestions or advice based on your data analysis.

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I feel like – I feel like I probably should be more forward even when they are,

sorry, ignorant about this area.

Yes. Okay.

But I am more passive. I have to say that. If I present one time, I feel like I’m

compelled to present. If I present it one time and they are not interested, I

wouldn’t push it. I would say here you really need to do this to save money. You

really need to look at this part. We have problem in this area or that area. I

wasn’t pushy. I would just show them and then…that’s why I said I could have

done more, but I didn’t.

Are there, in terms of home family in Taiwan, have they been supportive

over these years in any way? I mean your sisters, your three sisters, is that

right?

Mm hmm. We have many sisters, but there are six of us.

Oh six. Okay.

There are six of us, yeah, but these other two, they have also higher education and

they administrative experiences. No. We were just doing our own thing.

Okay. So you’ve never sort of shared or collaborated on sort of things to

help each other?

No. Until only like recent years, probably.

Okay. And why do you think that is?

Oh, because we’re talking about retirement.

Okay. Well, and your mother is here. And maybe that’s…

Maybe that’s why we’re communicating a little more - because we were just

buried in our work.

Yeah, yeah. Amricar. In Farsi, we say Amricar. People come to the United

States, Amricar. Car in Farsi means work. And so it’s like you go to the

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United States and that’s what you go there for. Work, work, work, work,

work.

Work, work, work, work, work. Yeah.

“We’re going to Amricar.” There’s sort of an innuendo, you know.

Question #5: Professional supports that have helped you develop as a leader.

And so we’ve talked about some of these things already – your director colleagues

with whom you share some things.

We do have professional organizations for different line of work. I was

assessment director for the school district here one year so we do, whenever there

is professional development, we go and we will look at what kind of research

people can be doing.

[END AUDIO ONE.]

[BEGIN AUDIO TWO.]

Oh, you were talking about the professional supports. Yeah, if there’s any.

So we go to professional development. As far as mentor, I don’t think I have

mentor directly. You know, even when I make friends at the same management

level, we would just communicating and making friends, but very few mentoring

experience. And then professional development, we – we exchange what we,

information on what we do, what research can be done, and what kind of things

that we can provide.

Do you think that would have been helpful to have a mentor, somebody

specific you could go to or even a mentor of your own ethnicity or of even

another ethnicity that, a woman who may have faced some of the challenges

that you would have faced. Do you think that would have been helpful?

Um to at least exchange experiences, I think, would be. Yeah - see, I think if I

would be talking to a younger IR professional woman, I can, I actually, I have a

research analyst in my office. I can probably give her more advice. But, but

again, whether they want to get it – it’s different…

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And she’s from…?

Taiwan. China. She’s from China.

Interesting. Maybe after this she’ll decide, she’ll…if she wants to. That’s

another thing.

If she wants to.

How old is she?

She is 40.

And has she just recently come here?

No. She’s been here. And she is another example. She’s very intelligent. She

wanted to find a job, just to do the job - you know. And uh even though she may

have ideas, all she actually wanted to have a director position. I mean before I

retired, I did tell the president she is very good and she can be – she can be

trained or replaced – I mean replacing me. But they put a man there. They put a

man there who doesn’t know much about institutional research. You know.

Granted, he’s a math professor, but it’s totally different.

Is he older?

He’s older.

Is he American?

He’s American. He’s Caucasian. He’s a man.

You feel like she had the better qualifications for that position?

She definitely knows more about that, data, and she is intelligent and she has

ideas because she comes to my office and we can talk about different ideas. But

now she’s quiet. She’s also, she’s like very quiet. Very put in the corner, kind of.

I mean – I mean she didn’t have the position like I would have, but you know, I

encourage her. You should go and talk to them. “Yeah, that’s alright.”

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And maybe she’s less inclined to go talk with…

She is even more…

Versus you.

Because maybe she didn’t have the position. But I saw that. I said, oh, you know.

She’s very reserved. And if you go to the office you would think the admin

assistant has more ideas. Do you know what I’m saying?

Oh yes. Interesting. But it’s sort of like what you said about the Chinese

expression. And if the bird sticks its neck out, it’s the one who gets shot. For

her, like you said, the job, you know, it’s security and she does her work and

she does her work well, but anything more than that is maybe risking her

job, in a way.

And is she happy? No. She knows that she can do more. But she said, and then I

will say, “Oh you should do this and you should approach.” “No, no, no.”

So she’s willing to risk her own sort of development and self-fulfillment for

what seems to be a cultural kind of impression or requirement or something.

And it could be because also she’s not like a 20 year old, not like the next

generation. So she, yeah.

Interesting. At what age might that shift happen? Twenty-five? You said

she’s 40. It would be interesting to study that.

I do see the young students, young ones now, they are more free-spirited. They

say whatever they want to say. They do whatever they want to do. There is also,

okay, talking about limitation by immigrants, because when we first came here,

we have our goal to study you know. I didn’t want to stay, but when I met my

husband, we have to stay. Then to stay, becomes a important target. So you do

whatever. You know.

Okay. I find a job. That’s enough. I have to make it. Rather than, “Oh, I can

have a couple of years of free surfing and just find something that I really want to

do and do it.” No no. You find a job. You settle. You get your green card.

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Make sure your status is correct before you can even think about what you want,

what you like.

Freedom begins with the green. Light or card. Whatever we call that. Yes.

That’s probably shared by most first generation immigrants.

Yeah, I think so. When you say “When you met your husband, then you had

to stay,” why do you…?

Because he’s from China, I’m from Taiwan. By then, I couldn’t go to China. He

probably wouldn’t go to Taiwan because he came to United States. And we do

like United States better, too. I – I didn’t want to go to China because, for him, he

tries to get out of that system. It was…

But you return for visits?

For visits yeah and for professional. He is now…the society is more open. The

government is more open, so they allowed guest conducting and exchange. Now

the students come both ways. Recently, they just opened for the visa. People can

get a Chinese visa for five years. That’s unheard of. The United States always

give five years for students, you know. But so before, they only give you two

months.

Two months versus five years. Wow.

So they encouraging open communication.

It must be exciting to see these changes. Is it?

Not enough. Yes.

Not enough changes. There aren’t enough changes.

But yes, it’s good to change for the better because I think the system; we still have

problems with the system. But anyway, so he was trying to get out of the system

and we were looking for the best way to study and – and to make our living. And

we stayed here. Like your mother, we stayed here many many years - longer than

the years that we were in our own home country.

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Interesting. So yeah. So you’ve now spent more of your life here than you

did in your home country. Alright.

Question #6: Last question. What leadership traits must immigrant women

in the United States develop?

I think the first and most important one is to take initiative. I tell my children now

all the time. But I think that’s the first one – “You have to feel confident enough

to go and take the initiative to do whatever that you want to do. And rather than

thinking about well, is this right? Do I fit in? Am I doing the right thing?” Is it -

be too cautious? That’s my own experience. And, of course, that links to

confidence.

Again, to well prepare yourself. It’s still a value that I value; although I did

observe many of the successful people out there, I don’t think they necessarily

have the foundation knowledge. They may have the management skill you know

and so maybe I need to change or revise my own belief. And maybe because of

the line of work, our line of work, the basic knowledge is very important.

Actually, it’s very important. But management skill is probably something that we

can learn once we get promoted to that. Or even before you get promoted, you

want to go and find out how to manage, how to be a leader.

How about language?

Language is very important because - you’re right. Much of the hesitation is due

to language barrier. I remember when I first go to those executive meetings. I

would - rather than…later years I can just say it, but before I was actually making

the sentences in my brain. And once I get it, I passed the opportunity.

It’s too late. Yes.

It’s too late. So I become the wallflower because this – one of - one time this

supervisor told me that. And she’s a VP at a different, a private sector that I

worked with. She said, “You’re a wallflower.” I said, “What do you mean?”

She said, “I brought you because you have so much idea when you talk about in

my office and I brought you to the executive meeting to see the president, to see

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this and that and I was hoping that you would say something.” I said, “Oh, I

thought you wanted me to just listen and to learn.”

So her advice was good, but you didn’t understand, sort of the purpose of…

And they were going too fast for me then. And this is about 15 years ago or so.

You know. I feel like whew. They’re going too fast for me. And then when I was

finally coming up with a good idea and good sentences, either the opportunity

passes or they start working toward that idea already. You know? I missed the

chance to say it and maybe the – the similar idea wasn’t as good.

Yes.

But then I just let it go.

Yeah, you could actually find a better solution based on what you could have

added to the conversation and yet it was. Yeah. It’s interesting because

some of the women I’ve interviewed, language has been a huge challenge.

Even in the interviews, I’m concerned that maybe it will hard to transcribe

what’s written because of the accent.

And when we hear other people with accent, you know, that’s also, for me, it’s

like, “Oh my gosh, we don’t want to listen to this.”

Interesting. Wow.

Because you were hoping the words come out faster and I’m thinking, “Okay, I

don’t want to become this embarrassment.”

So you’ve adjusted your kind of listening skills to an American accent and

can easily understand that. But others with accents, there’s a completely

different set of, like brain activity that needs to take place to…is that…?

I would - yeah I would try to understand because I sympathize with that. And I

think, “I’m sure this person has something nice to say.” But at the same time,

another voice is telling me other people probably get annoyed. They probably are

losing patience. You know what I’m saying? So that that makes me more

cautious when I’m trying to present my idea. I would want to say it right. I would

want to say it understandably. People can hear me, understand it, and I think that

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prohibits the spontaneous discussion and participation. And I think that’s very

important; very important to let people know that you are actually thinking and

you have ideas because after many years later and I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh,

why was I intimidated by these people?” They were just blah, blah, blah. I had

no idea. But 15 years ago I wouldn’t see that. I’m thinking anybody can speak

fluent English, they must be smart.

Interesting.

The impression. Right?

Time and confidence.

Yeah, time and confidence. Confidence about… comfortable about presenting

yourself, even with accent. Just participate.

One participant has said that – and I don’t know if it was in the recording. I

hope so. She said something like, “Well, because I’ve met people who think

just because I have an accent that I’m stupid.” .

It was not a perception, because it was a fact. I remember 20 some years ago

people were killed or put into institution just because of the language, I think in

Detroit or some places - this man, a Chinese immigrant, couldn’t speak very good

English, was put into the mentally retarded institution because they think he is

stupid. So it’s not a perception. It was a fact in the history. And so that, again,

makes you very careful, even though we know we know much more.

And I heard friends later told me that, “Oh, [M], you were using a lot of

vocabulary that are very good.” And I’m thinking, “I didn’t know that.”

Because we were speaking from books that we know. We were using vocabularies

from the books we know. We don’t know the casual language, the conversation

language, what words people use. Up to this day I still have, “Oh, what is that

word? What does that mean?”

Interesting. It’s the theory versus practice kind of dilemma, isn’t it? That is

your language.

We now have more friends and then we gossip more, so we have learned the

casual language more.

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And that’s one of the reasons why, as far as study participants, I wanted to

interview only those who have learned English, not as a first language.

Because, typically, the tendency is to learn it more formally, more correctly.

From the books.

Right.

Yeah.

Depending on line of work, certainly.

Line of works. Yes, yes, and more professional vocabularies, the words.

Yeah, well good. Is there anything else that you think I should have asked

you but maybe we didn’t cover in our visit?

No, you actually are good prompting because I don’t know. I haven’t thought

about it for a long time. But I do feel leadership is, I – I don’t know whether it’s

shared by most immigrants, but obviously when you’re interviewing or you’re

interested in this topic, it must be a phenomenon that you observe. But I feel like

my biggest, weakest point is to be a strong leader. Again, it could be personality,

but I feel like culture nurtures that.

How do you define a leader?

A leader that’s wherever you go in there and you tell people what to do and then

you have ideas, that people would follow you. Not necessarily imposed to follow.

That your idea or you move forward and you can create and…

But not impose them to follow? Interesting.

Mm hmm.

Terrific. Great. So I will, as I said, I’ll send you the questions, too, in case

you think of anything else. I’m going to stop this.

[END OF AUDIO.]

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[BELOW IS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SENT BY STUDY

PARTICIPANT VIA EMAIL AFTER TRANSCRIPTS WERE PROVIDED

TO STUDY PARTICIPANTS FOR VERIFICATION AND

CLARIFICATION PURPOSES.)

Question 4. Based on your lived experiences, what are the personal supports

that allow immigrant women in the United States to develop as leaders?

I do speak Chinese to our children most of the time. My first one speaks back in

Chinese. My second one needs to be reminded and often would speak back in

Chinese.

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Asia, South Korea

Alright, okay. So if you will start by telling me when you came to the United

States and why.

1967 I come here to better life. American Dream.

And you came from?

Korea. South Korea.

And did you come by yourself?

I did first. I was 15.

Oh, 15. So did your family come together?

No, no. Myself. From the church. Catholic Church. Pennsylvania.

Oh my gosh. So you came with some kind of a program through your

church as a 15-year old. So you finished high school here?

Yes.

Wow. By yourself. Were there any other Koreans who came? I mean not

family, but…?

Those days we - people don’t know about Korea. They think I’m Chinese or

Japanese because even Korean world, people doesn’t know Korea. If - I had to

put newspaper to find Koreans once married to American. Hardly any. No

Korean food neither. Oh, I struggled. Believe me. I cry. I struggle. I had to

learn English myself. I used to…those days, I don’t know; you’re not old enough.

Gas station full service. They have a pinball machine. I can take a nickel and

stay all day long and learn English; pinball machine. Stay at McDonald. And

Koreans, I never eat beef until I come here. If now I have a choice not to eat beef,

but, you know, they don’t have a Korean food. Korean onion, I have to go to the

Italian town to buy green onion, and I don’t know how to cook Korean food

because I was young. Oh, I struggle. I stay in a McDonald for the whole year,

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and Kentucky Fried Chicken’s my first American food I – I learned how to eat. I

eat for whole year.

So you would go there not only to eat but to just sit there and listen to people

talk?

No, learn the English.

Oh. You’d look at the signs of the food.

Yes. That’s what I did. Food and pinball machine. It showed the

[inaudible2:29], then English, the Martian, or whatever. Then after a year I went

to high school because I was not qualified because my language.

Oh, because of the language.

But it was - my English is worse now than before because in those days I don’t

use Korean. I don’t have a choice to learn the English, so my English don’t

actually have this bad accent. But now I watch Korean TV 24 - I go home speak,

my husband Korean, all the Korean friend, Korean food - just like Korea.

So where did you live when you first came here?

Iowa City, Pennsylvania.

But with a family or sort of church related?

No, I live with the family - Italian.

A family.

They’re wonderful.

Are you still in touch with them?

Yeah, some of them. The parents passed away, you know. She passed away 1977.

The dad passed away ’83. So brothers and stuff, you know, still here. But they’re

older too.

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Yeah, wow. That’s incredible.

Well, I suffer. I did – I did went through hell when I first come here because I

was only 15 and I don’t know what to expect. When I first come to that home,

they had a pizza. It stink so bad I was sick. I was throwing up.

Did it have beef on it?

No just pizza - that cheese smell. I love cheese now. But then, I never smelled

cheese. Just make me sick. And Kentucky Fried Chicken really. Big Mac. I still

craving for that. I still does.

Isn’t that something? I’ll get to that, but I want to know about your family a

little bit too. So all of the questions that I’ll ask you are based on your

personal lived experiences. So not what you might know about your

neighbor or reading from the newspaper or seen on the TV. So you own

personal experiences.

Question #1: So the first question is describe the perceptions in Korea about

the role of women as leaders.

Korea is just lucky your parents from not here. Korea is changed now. Last time

I went to Korea 1977 because I bring my family this country now. So they all

here. After that, I become the U. S. citizen. I bring them.

But Korea, my day, my memory, my generation, we don’t even walk with the man.

We don’t hold the hand. We table; my dad and three brothers eat front, me and

my mom, my sister, we eat back, just like in the Middle East. It’s like that. And

now it’s very modern, Korea. Korea got so wealthy so fast. Westernized. High

rise building. Woman now divorce rate. I think it’s second or third the whole

world. Used to be you don’t divorce. Men bring a different woman and live in

same house. You don’t divorce.

So now you’re saying the divorce rate is second highest in the world?

Third, second; somewhere. ‘Cause woman start working and got wealthy. So

woman start having power. My days and my mom generation, we don’t have

power. Woman doesn’t work. We stay home raise a kid. We don’t believe in

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divorce. You divorce, your children get affected. How define – say Korea? I

don’t know about the Middle East; Korean, same background get marry. You

poor educated, you marry those people. Depends on your level.

So your parents’ divorce, then your childrens gonna have a hard time to find

good - marry. So your mom, your lady – woman actually sacrifice. Man can

have two, three wives. You don’t have a boy in Korea; man can go have another

woman to have a boy.

Legally they can do that or it’s sort of accepted even though…it is legal?

Legally – legally - legal because carry last name. Carry the, your generation.

That’s what they believe. Woman get marry, you are another family. Man you

marry. That’s what the old days. Oh, you marry, you die that family. You not

longer do my family. Like my brothers and sisters, they belongs to [Z]. But I

won’t belong to [Z]; I belong to [T]’s family.

You know, so culture was a…still have a culture but young generation changing.

But it’s good or bad. Yeah, because I see the young Koreans, especially ones

come here to go to school, they don’t understand the hardship we had. Because

Korea has a war, 1953, ending war. I’m a war baby. Right after war, I was

born. Week later, I born. Korean War’s over 1953. June 25th

it’s over. I born

July 1st. My mom said she went to the cantaloupe field she had me.

The cantaloupe field? You were born in the cantaloupe field?

My mom delivered all five children home. I watched the last one. You know, so

it’s Korea’s culture, young generation cannot relate to me, and I can’t relate it,

even I’ve been here over 40 year. I’m not American. I’m not a Korean. I’m an

in-between, because that’s my children tell me. “Oh, you live in 1950 century.”

They were all born and raised here? Your children?

I’m fortunate. My kids are very good.

They’re good.

Yeah I used to tell them, “I don’t have a background; you’re the background.”

See, Koreans, education’s very important.

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It’s important.

Oh yeah. See, you notice the…that’s why I don’t understand other immigrant, the

Spanish people, so them, I don’t understand. You know, even black, I don’t

understand. Because we don’t have a background - English problem, but we

work hard. Hard. Raise a kid. You know - you know the L.A. riot, black people

say, “Oh, you make money from the - our money, then you go live in white

neighborhood.” They don’t understand, it’s a culture’s different. We don’t raise

the kids in the street like the blue jeans, pants are hanging down, pierced earring,

tattoo. Even we live here, kids born here, very seldom do some kids you just can’t

handle. Some parents too busy to working you know. But morals are very

important to Korea. So most Koreans live United States is very success,

percentage-wise, very good. Even we are small business, work hard, 14, 15 year,

but kids all graduate a nice college, good student, and, you know, they have a

good job after that you know. Even they born here. We keep that. That’s why the

Koreans now, no percentage; population is not that big but it’s, we have a mayor,

we have a Congressman, we have a lot of doctor.

In the United States.

Yeah, a lot of lawyer. Even Colorado Springs, we have 11,000.

11,000 Koreans in Colorado Springs.

It don’t count the ones married to American.

I had no idea.

We have 23 Korean church.

In Colorado Springs?

Even here, one Methodist church.

I’ve seen it. Yeah.

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Yeah, Colorado Springs 23. Catholic Church and everything. I used to be

Buddhist, but I’m Catholic now because I was raised by Catholic family when I

come here. But everything. Denver 44,000.

Isn’t that something? Yeah, you would have no idea, but now I know.

But ones born here even second generation, like a person like me too, lot of

success women and success education, high education and, you know. Koreans is

very, very, what do you call that, very strong-minded because Koreans went

through a lot because North Korea and South Korea divided because of

politician. Then we occupied by Japanese for 45 year. Like a slave, you know.

So - and our ancient King; see, we’re actually from the Mongolians – Chinese,

Korean, Japanese, we’re similar. Actually, Korean man made Japanese, but they

occupied, turnaround 45 years. You know. But Koreans very, what do you call

that? Very strong. Strong personalities, strong mind.

Okay.

Question #2: So the perceptions in the home country of women as leaders,

and you said really that kind of…

No, no, no, no, no. Man’s the leader.

How did that influence you and your ability to sort of have your own

business here and become successful here?

You know, you don’t have a choice. You come to America Dream. Because used

to, woman, Korea, you don’t work. But nowadays does. You have to because of

economics and country get wealthy and living cost are high, so woman start get

modern, get education, so they want to be out. Speak for themselves. So you

come to America, you know, you have to live by whatever you go, their culture.

Accept it. So you don’t work America, you don’t have anything. You know what

I’m saying?

So my husband and I, you know, we have to work. You know. We don’t work,

then we live in poor house you know. Education, maybe you know, I don’t have

time and money to get the high education, so you don’t want to work for

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somebody and be stay on the bottom. You want to be success, American Dream.

So you have to start somewhere, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Question #3: So home country cultural influences. Are there any other than

what we’ve already talked about? Are there any other home country cultural

influences that have supported your leadership development?

Oh yes.

What kinds of things?

Korea is a woman’s supposed to be - our culture to sacrifice.

Oh, a culture of sacrifice. For…?

Woman sacrifice everything for the man. It’s not just me. Because it’s - I saw it

that my mom too. You know. My mom passed away, it’s been – it’s going to five

years. She worked until she died.

Really.

She worked for all five children. Seamstress.

As a seamstress.

So, you know, I’m not sitting home to support my husband to be a success. So I

might do outside… so that uh you know some woman bothered to working hard

and stuff, I don’t believe - fate me. That’s a part of life. Because anything, you

know, you want to get…you don’t wanna be on the welfare, ghetto …I don’t

understand this country. Why you have to be on welfare and living on a ghetto

because you can be poor, but you don’t have to be dirty, you know what I’m

saying?

You can be poor, but you don’t have to be dirty?

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Yeah. I go east side just drive me nut, you know. Cause Koreans, we don’t live

life like that in Korea. Because I was poor you know right after war. Because my

dad from the North Korea. He was going to school South Korea - the war break

out, so he never get to see his parents. Yeah. So he – he became the alcoholic.

Then he died. He was only 50 years old.

50.

58.

58.

Yeah. I was going to bring him to this country in 1977. I went to Korea. They

told me he needed to have a surgery because he had a cancer. They can him

diagnose three months. He lived 13 years. Then he had surgery, he died - 20

days later. There’s blood everywhere.

Wow.

That’s another fear I have going doctor.

Yes. I can understand.

Yeah, you know Koreans; we do a lot of acupuncture, natural. We don’t all

depend on western medication, you know. Like if I have a cold, I don’t – I try not

to take a pill. I take a lot of ginseng teas, green tea and water and raw lemon tea.

You know, things like that. Even I’ve been here over 40 year, my mom was here

33 years. So you know seeing parents and my culture people, we still care.

We’re still traditional, still there. Because it’s not totally changed.

So your mother was here 33 years. She left your father there.

No. My dad had passed away.

Oh. She came after he passed away.

Yeah, because I was there to bring them; I bring all my family here. Three

brothers, one sister, and my mom. My dad passed away May, I bring them the

December.

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Oh, okay.

Yeah so, since then, I don’t have a reason to go to Korea because working, having

all your family here, you know. But still, you know, the - my mind is still Korean.

I don’t know about you because you’re born here, you’re more American, right?

I think so.

Not me. That’s why the people think it’s funny because I’m Korean, think it funny

because they say, “I’m not Korean, I’m not American.” They say, “I’m a in-

between.”

But in your mind, you’re Korean?

Mmm I don’t know. I never thought about it…my husband think I’m American.

Oh really? Thinks you are or thinks he is?

Thinks I am.

Ah, thinks you are. How did you meet your husband?

Well, his family live in New York. It’s very highly educated family. Not him. He

have three doctors. One nephew is neurosurgeon. One niece is a Manhattan big

uh medical position there and she’s doctor. Another one in Seattle married to

American, but she’s a doctor too. And his sister’s nurse.

So you met him at a social…?

Arrangement.

Oh it was a fixed arranged marriage.

Most Korean my age, we do that.

Really? So who in Pennsylvania, well, I don’t know how old you were, but

you were in Pennsylvania when you were 15.

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No, I moved to Pennsylvania. I graduate. I went to California.

Okay. And he lived in New York. But somebody in the Korean

community…

Somebody yeah.

Connected you. From California to New York.

Yeah.

So did you travel there to meet?

I don’t travel there. He travel…

He traveled to see you in California.

You know arrange marriage, you don’t have the love. Koreans believe arrange

marriage, love will grow, whatever. You just live together, husband and wife.

Arrange marriage is…first the pressure is not bad, then you just dated and dated,

then when to get married. Family met together. Family. Backgrounds a little

similar, things like that. Then parents say okay. His brother, sisters are okay;

older brother, older sister have more power. Then you just get married. Then

you live husband and wife.

How old were you?

I was 20 years old.

20. And he was…?

He same age.

Same age. Okay. So you had been here five years at that point. And what

did you do in California when you were there?

I was working at a receptionist and I was working at the translator to Korean. I

worked or the lawyer office. Then, see, Koreans live in California doesn’t speak

English that well. You know why? Because even they’ve been there a long time

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because so many Koreans. Millions of Koreans. We have a Korean town,

Korean doctor, Korean lawyer. You don’t need to speak English. It’s like Korea.

I don’t know you ever been there. So people don’t care about learning English.

So like at the DUI, whatever, you need always somebody to be there to help you

out. So I was doing part-time that too. It’s good living.

Yes.

It’s good - our cultures, we don’t just give them the $1, or $10, nothing like that.

You just keep it to the way you feel; that you think that person deserved the job.

And it was good.

Oh interesting. So they give you what they think you’re worth in a way.

There’s no flat charge is what you’re saying?

It’s there, the flat charge, but you don’t ask for.

Yes, yes.

Because it’s coming; it’s better.

It’s impolite in a way. I know exactly. In Farsi, it’s the same kind of thing.

No, no, please take it. No, I insist on paying.

Yeah, because here too, you know, even I work dry cleaner there, occasionally, I

get a lot of people ask for the help because I know the lot of lawyers, so they ask

me the legal opinion or advice. And sometime, you have to have a license to get

the translate, so I don’t - Koreans, our culture is very funny. They wrong, but if

you lose your trial, then you blame everything to you. I don’t do this here

because I run a dry clean business and my family live here a long time. So I know

a lot of people knows me. If they ask me to help something, I know better than

they are, I will. But I won’t charge them. But they might bring a gifts; things like

that. That’s our culture. American ways is everything – yours, yours, mines,

mine. And, you know, Koreans is, even family, we help each other. You know,

brothers, sisters. That’s why Koreans history is a short time, but we are a success

because well, you don’t have to be family. We help each other. Koreans. That’s

why so many of them business. If they can do the business, they can do the other

things. Excuse me.

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Oh yes, no problem.

It’s a very different culture. But Japanese, Koreans are similar. Chinese too.

Yes, I’ve interviewed somebody from Taiwan so far.

Question #4: So the next question is, again, based on your lived experiences,

what are the personal supports that have allowed you to become a leader here? So

personal supports could be any family support from Korea or it could be your

husband or your children.

No, I have the support of my family. I have the…

Okay. So there’s no way, and I don’t, by support, I don’t mean, necessarily,

financial. So even if it’s…

Mentally too.

Uh huh. Mentally. So did you talk, for example, on the phone with your

family to…?

Those day you can’t talk to phone because Korea don’t have a phone system’s

that good. Not like now. I mailed a letter take it two weeks.

Two weeks.

I had to go to the Pittsburgh 45 minutes to mail it.

To mail a letter.

Back in 1967, it’s not like now. Believe me.

Was it a really small town in Pennsylvania where you were?

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It’s a small town, Iowa City, small town, but still technology is not good as like

now does. Now, it’s Koreans do making TV and technology, cars. Got wealthy.

And – and now it’s computer, you know. Those - they don’t have that.

So did you talk with your family at all on the phone?

No.

Never.

Never.

So you were 15 and you came and when was the first time that you had

contact with your mother, for example?

I write the letter all the time. And they send me, occasionally, they have money,

they send can food.

They would send you canned food?

Yeah, can. Just one or two or seaweed, dry seaweed. We eat a lot of seaweed.

Dry seaweed. And then in between that, I met couple of Koreans and married to

Americans. They’re old enough to know how to cook Korean food, so they started

feeding me some.

Oh okay.

Life get a little easier.

And so as far as personal supports, has your husband been supportive that

you want it to work or…?

Oh, I did it myself. When I first come at 15, I was babysitting.

Oh, when you first came here.

Yeah I wanted money.

Yes, so you babysat for money.

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I made $0.25, but I wanted to work. Those days, $50 is a lot of money. So every

time I send – I save $50, I send it to my family.

Oh you did?

Yeah, because their money is; Korea’s education now, not anymore, but those

days, you have to pay money to go to school, even elementary.

There?

Yeah. So some poor; you poor, you can’t get a education.

Oh, interesting.

So I want my brother to have a education, so I send the money. So that’s why they

all graduate, you know. They had some education. They come here. Go college.

Yeah.

So who started the dry cleaning business?

My brother.

So your brother started the cleaner that you’re in now?

Yeah, no, not that one. We have a Colorado Spring, we have three of them.

Okay.

My brother, I bring him this country and my mom and him start to the sewing

factory. Cause my mom is a seamstress. She sew good with the seamstress.

And where is this or where was it?

Colorado Springs.

Oh in Colorado Springs.

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And I left. I went to California. And then I come back, he had a dry cleaner. And

I say I never going to own dry cleaner – biggest mistake I did.

To start the business?

No, not business; dry cleaner.

The dry cleaner in particular.

Oh no. It’s not my nature. And I still have three. I don’t know if you know or

not.

I did.

I had three. No, that’s not my nature. Especially Pueblo. I’m a more social and

not like, you know, physical neighbor is not meant to my physical. You know, it

was not…my brother, we come here to vacation. Because my kids graduate. And

my brother, I was looking at a mailbox or liquor store and my mom say liquor

store; she’s so religion, liquor store’s no good because ruin three generation, she

believe in superstition. She said three generations ruin their life. Example the

Kennedy. She mind me not to do it. So my mom is very…even she – she became

the Catholic, but her mind still a Buddhist. It’s old ancient…

And so she uses the example of the Kennedy’s; yes, because after prohibition,

then you hear of all of the tragedies in their family’s life.

That’s Korean believe if you own a night club or liquor business, third generation

down the road is not good. That’s the way they…that’s almost like fast life. Fast

money. You might make good money. So I was looking at mailbox or something

else. UPS, I looking at different things. The McDonald franchise. My brother

bring my husband to here. We got ripped off. Cause those times, it was not, fax

was not that uh popular; mailing, some Korean. Korean owner. He paid three

year more tax because he trying to sell. And here I am, Americanized, I look the

tax.

Your brother did this?

He didn’t know. He introduce to Korean. Another Korean he trust. So we looked

the taxes three years file. Looks good. So we went back to Michigan, my kids,

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this transaction of going college. So we look the tax pretty profit, plus down here,

the coin laundry, I own that too. We bought it. He bought it.

Your husband.

He ruined our life. He bought it so for six months, we work 16 hours day. So he

bought it, so he feel pride, Korean man pride. He had obstructed stomach. They

had to take everything out. He had prosthetic stomach. Everything. He just had

little; he had a bleeding ulcer. He let it go. He went to emergency room. They

taken out everything. Yeah, he’s still on medication. We’ve been here 18 years

now. Time flies so fast.

And you couldn’t sell the business?

Well, we don’t want another person like us. I went through law suit everything.

Oh you did.

Yeah, three law suit. And…

Because of the sale transaction?

Yeah. But the person file the bankruptcy, so what good is it? You know. We went

through hell. That’s the worst life we had here. And Pueblo is not corporate. It’s

not white collar work. It’s most blue collar, welfare. You know, Pueblo, I had a

chance, I would leave, you know. But now I’m stuck. But it - now you get older,

you don’t really think about success; just you know, just happy live by one day, by

one day - because too old to start anything anyway. That’s the way we look at it.

So just kids growing. Everything settled so. We’re not starving. We eating. We

never gonna be save any money, but we okay. So we just let it go.

Persist.

Yeah. Then a lot of my good customer, I have a lot of people from the Colorado

Springs, Cheyenne Mountain, La Veta, a lot of people from La Veta. Mostly

customers from the Cheyenne Mountain and La Veta and Trinidad. So those

people really keep me going. And ah please, you guys good. Don’t move. You

know. They became the personal friend. You know what I’m saying?

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Yes. It’s a different relationship altogether.

Because of he’s not the money; you become the sole…some customers are my

customer for 18 year, 15 year, 10 year. So it’s like a family. And they get you

know – they don’t see me couple of days they wonder what…then I have a

customer bring holy water. I have a customer bring me food. I have a customer

always, she say she prays for me. You know. It’s like a family. So that makes

you keep on.

Yeah.

Question #5: What are the professional supports that have helped you to

develop leadership status in the United States? So, you know, had you taken any

classes, for example? Or has anybody helped you…?

Not really anybody help. I’m a very independent person. But I did go to a lot of

school. Believe me. I never finished it, but I went to a lot of college, but I never

had a chance to - to one special degree and make it my career. But I did – I did

went time to time a lot of school because, but I always interrupted by the children

or brothers, family, husband. But work ethics; my mind, I’m a very because, you

know, I born in the war baby. Right after the war. So my dad been sick and from

North Korea can’t see his family. Make me…I’m the second oldest, so I’m

actually oldest because my sister’s half-sister. Her dad died in a war. So my

mom joined the military, married to my dad.

Oh my gosh. She joined the military, the Korean military?

Yeah because those day the war, you know, woman come to widow. You’re not

really supposed to get married. Stays.

You just stay a widow.

Widow. And she was only 19-year old. Those days Korean marry real early.

Because…

And she already had a child and her husband had died.

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Yeah, during a war. So she became…then my dad joined…not joined, a

mandatory career. Military is mandatory in war. So even he from North Korea,

but those days North Korea, South Korea is one nation. So he get to go military.

Met my mom. He was 32 when he had me. Because my dad is lot older than my

mom. So I’m the oldest.

Of the five.

And I’ve got…yeah, four.

Oh, four.

Because one’s a half. My sister really don’t care. She don’t care. We don’t even

know where she is now.

Really? She’s lost touch?

No, she mad at my mom because something about…my mom never stay a widow

for her life, so she’s bitter.

Oh. She’s mad at your mother because of that.

So she, I bring her this country and she didn’t even see that my mom passed away.

She didn’t even come to funeral. Even we told her. We told her friend. She know

about it, but she didn’t never show up.

And she lives where?

New York City.

Oh, in New York.

Yeah, she didn’t even…I don’t know how can she do that? That’s…so none of my

brother/sister, they’re probably willing to want to see her. I’m willing to see her,

but it’s sad, though. But I’m the oldest. Koreans, oldest ones responsibility for

family. I don’t know by any other country. Old days, Koreans, oldest sons, if

parents get old, you supposed to take care of them.

Yes. So that’s the case even if the oldest is a girl. They’re still responsible.

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Not your responsibility, but my three brothers, they’re not good because they –

they think they are American. Because they come here when they’re young and I

was supportable, you know, old lady. So my brother, oh they change. Just like

American. It’s their wives and studies. You know.

Their wives are American?

No. But still. You know they, Korea – they’ don’t - wife is not my generation.

You know what I’m saying? A generation, but I’m okay. As long as God give me

the heart to work, then.

Alright.

Question #6: Then the last question is what leadership traits must

immigrant women in the United States develop? So if there are people coming here

now, women coming here now from other countries, what is it important for them to

know?

They need to know the culture here first.

American culture?

Yes, instead the ignore, you need to learn this culture first. Even you can keep

your, just like me; I keep my culture some, but American cultures I understand.

You need to understand American culture, first thing. Then much easier. Accept

it. Instead of, you know, criticize or try to ignore. I don’t care where you go, like

example, you go to Iran, you have to accept that culture. You go to Korea, you

accept the Korean culture. You come to this America, you have to accept the

American culture; learn the American culture first. And learn English.

Language.

Yeah because I don’t understand Spanish people. You know, credit card, you call

Spanish everything. I tell them, I say, you’re going to be in bottom ever. This is

America. Learn English. Even you have a accent or whatever; English. Even

you don’t need it. I don’t have to have it if I’m not in my business. I don’t need to

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speak English. I speak all day long Korean with friend, church, Korean store. If

I wanted to go lawyer, doctor, I can have it. But I don’t like Korean lawyer. I

don’t like Korean doctor. Because this is America. I like my American lawyer.

[Laughter] Some, I like Korean, but not all. So I choose. So if anybody come to

this country, learn the culture, learn the English. That’s main thing for you to be

success.

Do you feel like you’ve had any kind of situations where there has been

prejudice or anything like that?

Oh yes. Oh yes.

Can you tell me about the experience?

Many time, you know, but you cannot hold against, then you hurting yourself.

Oh, especially when I was little. First come to here. Now, it’s Korean is popular.

I remember one time I went to West Virginia. I can’t get out of car. Those kids

never saw a real Asian person. Chinese, Chinese, Chinese. They’re all

surrounded me.

Surrounding the car?

Yeah. So I can’t even get out. Oh, many times. But you can’t hold against it, you

have to forget that. Because…

Were they being mean?

Oh yeah.

Or just they were…or just curious?

No, that’s curious, but there are time the people are mean. I guess, I remember

one time California, I had a small business, part-time. And lady tell me, “Gook”

- she called me a Gook, “Go back your country.” Oh yeah prejudice.

Even though she was in your business, right.

Yes. And even politician, or law, even judge. You know Pueblo. No, it’s there

many time prejudice. I cry, but I can’t keep that forever. And I’m the one that

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hurt. It can’t change. There are prejudices everywhere. Every race. I don’t

care. Even your own race you’re prejudice against. So if you, that thing, I hurt

my back and I can’t live. You know because, I’ve been through, especially this

town. One judge. One judge. I never forget his name. My lawyer says, “He’s a

nice guy,” but I don’t think so.

What did the judge say?

Not he say, because this lawyer wife. You know, she married…I don’t know.

Geiser, Geiser - her husband has one eye; funny, he’s Jewish. You know, funny

looking eyes. He’s lawyer. His wife bring me the silk skirt, Highway 50. That’s

a long time ago. I forgot. She asked me to hem to make a mini skirt. So my mom

did it. But any time you alteration, thread show, especially raw silk. She said she

don’t like it because thread showing. So I said, “Bring receipt, I’ll give you

money.” She said, “I bought it Florida, cash. I don’t have a receipt.” Lawyer

wife, a doctor wife, me, I don’t pay $170 anything pay cash. I was dumb. That

time, I don’t know this town. I went to Ross. That skirt was $15. Dumb me; I will

never do that now. Dumb me, I asked him, since lawyer wife educated lady, so I

asked her, I said, “You know, what size do you wear Ms. [H] because Ross has it

sale for $15.” She take a fit. Next day I went to the Ross - nothing there. So I

won’t give her her money that she asked for. Anyway, you have depreciation, dry

clean, that’s law. Drapes, whatever, you ruin it - fabric get all sun – you put on

cleaner, they tear. And some people - every time that happen [inaudible 44:31]

none here Pueblo. But there are times a lot of dry cleaners, I got call for them to

translate, but you know, that happen they have depreciation. Like example, you

pay $1,000. It sat in your window for two year; that thing doesn’t worth $1,000.

Depends on judge’s though. Because sun hit the fabric, it wear out. Like clothes

too. You have depreciation. But she’s, lawyer’s wife, what did she do? She

called Ellen Fischer Collections. Ellen – Ellen Fischer. She called around

everywhere to get the slips that Ellen Fischer say they do have $2,000 spring sale

for $175. But you know clothes price always change. She bring in the [inaudible

45:37] close. She took me to small claim. I’m a fighter. So we went there.

Judge [U] say conflict interest because her husband’s a lawyer, so he can’t rule.

So he send me the upstair [X]. I’ll never forget him. All the lawyers said he’s a

nice guy, but I did not appreciate him.

Eight o’clock, morning, small claim, they say you’re supposed to have a lot of

people. I went there at 7:30, 8:00 he come look at me up and down. I didn’t

know that was a judge. Then we went in there, court start was resuming. He

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didn’t rule our case. He wait to everybody first. Then last two left, I ask him, I

said, “Your honor, she have a receipt. I’m willing to pay for that. She don’t have

a receipt, then price change. Collections, or whatever time to time they go on

sale. So therefore, I cannot give her a whole $175.” He favor her. So me, I am

fighter. My lawyer think I’m crazy. My lawyer is [V ]. He live up there. He’s

very Christian, known lawyer here. that time, he had a 7 attorney, biggest law

firm. I told that judge, I said, “Your honor, you’re bias.” Point in his face. I

said, “You’re biased.” I was crying like crazy. He told me, “Mrs. [T], I can put

you in the, you made noise in my court room. I can put you in jail.” I told him,

“God knows you know you’re bias. So I don’t care you put me in a jail or not.” I

was a screaming furious. He didn’t put me in jail, but then I left that court room,

I went to my lawyer, I say, “I know a salesman, lawyer, and mechanics crook, and

that judge is a crook.” I throw everything, paper there, I cried, I cried, and I

cried. Then my lawyer said, “That wife was [H] - that lawyer’s wife was...she’s

unbelievable. She was like that and she’s the loser; you’re the winner.

So I told him, “Go get my skirt. I’m going to give her money.” So I had to pay

$250 something, some court costs. That’s $175 everything. That’s first time and

thank God, the last time. Then he bring; he send another lawyer to her husband

office, go get that skirt and pay them. That’s embarrassing too. You know,

another lawyer, young lawyer went there to take money. His wife did it for the

white collar work, blue collar work. $250 like that because of her husband

lawyer.

Anyway, I put that skirt on my business for three years. I tell everybody know her.

Three years. And she have a lot of nerve. She come in one week later, to be sure.

She want me to service. So I told her, “Wait just a minute.” I don’t want to break

the law. Since her husband’s a lawyer. I called my attorney, I said, “Mr. [C],

Ms. {h] here with a dirty shirt, but I don’t wanna do her clothes. I don’t wanna

do it. And by the law, can I refuse?” He said, “No, you don’t have to do it if you

don’t want to.” So I said, I come at her nicely. I said, “Ma’am this reminds me

that Ross silk skirt. $250. So don’t here no more.”

Yeah, exactly.

That’s it. And she’s not gonna to find anybody to do this town shirt like I do. I

guarantee. Because I’m proud of what I do because I make sure my husband, if

for anything, he scrub every single shirt and I crease every single shirt sleeve.

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Machine does the one in front, standard size. But I do everything. So I know.

But that lady made me really, they’re not a…

Interesting.

You be surprised, they be prejudice of you or me, and me being woman. And my

body size tiny too. So a lot of Spanish young girl and black, nobody white people

doesn’t do that to me. It’s funny. The other minorities gets really.

Really? Interesting.

Yeah, another minority do that to me more. Don’t Caucasian people. Believe me.

Yes, I’ve been here 46 year. I went through, maybe some my Korean think

Caucasians do that to behind.

Oh, sort of in your back.

Yeah.

Ah.

That’s what they say, but my experience is minority. Blacks and His - Spanish.

And what about, you mentioned language. What about accent? Do you

think that’s a part of it, that if you didn’t have an accent, does that make a

difference?

Possible. Possible, but still they’re gonna…you have accent, they make more fun

you know. But you - I don’t really think that it makes different because you don’t

have an accent. They know you’re born here, but they still – still do it you know.

The way you look, not just race; people, generally, human beings racist. That’s

the way I look at it. Because I prejudice against some people. I’m prejudice

people tattoo.

You are.

I don’t like tattoos. And I don’t like the…that’s why I stopped going American

church, that pants hanging down the butt hole. I hate that. You know. Look like

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a houligan. I can’t stand that. I can’t stand the pierced lips and nose and

everywhere. So that’s prejudiced too. Right.

I guess.

Yeah. But we, human beings, I look at it, we’re born, all human beings

prejudiced against something, but racely, I don’t prejudiced for your skin color,

where your background, ethnic, but there are people, really prejudiced against

the way you are, you know. They’re prejudice Muslim, they’re prejudiced

Buddhist, they’re prejudiced and stereotype. Like uh you uh from the Middle

East, so you Muslim, you no good. You’re from the Asia, you Buddhist and

you’re from this, you know, people stereotype, but it’s people’s all different. You

know.

It’s fascinating, isn’t it? Just to be…

Yeah, living here be immigrant and 46 year now people’s very good life. New

immigrants, it’s good life.

Have a better life now than when you came.

Lot better life. Yes. Ninety-nine percent better. Food-wise, culture-wise, because

modern. So many different races so prejudice left. When I went to high school,

sometimes I get poked everywhere. Yeah because I’m the one here Korean.

Because you were the only person who was…

Only Asian person period.

Yes. Yeah.

I don’t even see the black or Spanish, nothing.

So you were the only person who was different than…

Different. Yeah.

So they would poke you with pencils or something?

334

Yeah pencils, you know, teasing. “Hey chang, you know how to kung fu?” “Hey

rice head.” You name it. But now it’s so many of them, so modern. So people

coming now it’s very…

It’s easier.

Good life. Good life, especially people from Southeast Asia. A good life because

Southeast Asia still poor, rough life.

So it’s better, a better life here than there.

Yeah, but Koreans, Japanese, it’s no; because they’re wealthy. My brother

moved back to Korea after 35 year. He said very good. Dry - he opened a dry

cleaner, he said people dress; everybody dry cleaning. He said good. He said he

gonna to stay three years, save money, and come back.

Oh wow. So it’s the other way around, isn’t it? Isn’t that crazy. Exactly the

other way around. Most immigrants would come to the United States, make

a living, make money, and go back home. Right, with the money that they’ve

earned. And here he’s doing the exact opposite. Interesting.

Yeah. Korea has a lot of immigrant. So a lot of people from Pakistan, Indonesia,

Malaysia, Burma, Chinese. So many people come work Korea. It’s bad, though.

Because losing culture because Koreans don’t wanna to do jobs, just like here.

Spanish don’t. So…

It’s the curse of progress and modernization and wealth. You get sort of lazy

a little bit or…

I get it. Yeah. And Koreans are getting bad. They forget. And my brother say, I

told him, I say, “I wanna go back Korea before I die.” Because I don’t been

there for 38 year, it’s been. And they’re probably rid of my father’s grave. They

can’t find it. Because small country, so they – they send a letter a couple of times,

nobody respond. They wiped it and build apartment. I guess I been here 30

something, then my nasty brother been Korea a couple of times. They’re so busy;

they never went to see the graveyard. So I die; I tell my kids, “Cremate. No

bury.” And they say, “Oh wow you know; you got children.” I say, “Oh well,

I’m alive and I hardly see you guys. Oh, wow, so just cremate it. Just put my ash

somewhere a lot of people. Because I was lonely all my life.”

335

And they live where?

Michigan.

Okay. They all live in Michigan.

I just sent the Christmas gifts yesterday. I cook the food and stuff, because they

married to Caucasian, so I made a kimchi and a couple of stuff because they

had…I didn’t know they had a flat rate, $17.99, so my granddaughter liked the

bean bar, so I send that. I make homemade food because I thought my oldest son

got so fat, I say marry the Dutch people so you’re fat, so you need to eat Korean

food. I told him, even eat juice. I made a bunch. Yeah, I made homemade food; I

sent them. Because it take three days. Michigan’s minus below 7. Cold.

Yes. Now who wants that?

Well I think, yeah, I think that’s it. Can you think of anything else that we

should have talked about that you want to….you need me to know?

We were too busy to talking about my life. You need any question, call me.

Okay. Okay. I certainly will.

You probably interview someone else it different than mine because….

Oh, everyone is different. Completely.

I been here so long, but life is…make a living, raising kid, but I’m very fortunate

because my both, kids, I don’t spend a penny on my kid’s college tuition. They

both got full ride.

Oh, that’s nice.

That’s my mom say. I said, my life was so, I had bad parents, all my life work,

and I’m the smallest one of family. Koreans bigger than most Asian people. I

don’t know you know it or not.

No, I didn’t think that.

They’re bigger. I’m the little runt.

336

Physically bigger. Interesting.

Bigger. I’m the smallest one in my family and my husband too. He comes from

number nine and number six. His sister taller than him. Koreans most tall.

Average size 5’10” men. Very tall for Asian. Korean, Japanese, Chinese, is the

tallest Asian. But Koreans are taller. And now taller because their diet. Eating

westernized.

Yes.

But he say, oh, you have a beautiful, you’re lucky with your two kid, you know.

You don’t have to spend no money. They all got a graduate, master’s and all

success. Good job. So I achieved something.

So you feel fortunate.

I feel achieved something.

Yes, yes. Good.

No I told my kids, I say, I won’t spend penny because I’m a immigrant. I had to

learn English strict and I made it. You guys born here had a opportunity. Take

advantage. That’s my favorite word. I said take advantage. I can’t take

advantage.

That’s good advice.

I said take advantage. Opportunity country.

Yes. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

So they - funny thing one of them marry Korean better. My two daughter-in-law

white, blue eyes and blonde hair. But that’s okay. If they’re happy.

Yes, of course.

[END OF AUDIO.]