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Interview with Angeline Mesenberg Beaver

March 20, 1978

Central Minnesota Historical Oral History Collection

St. Cloud State University Archives

Interview by Cal Gower and John LeDoux

LeDoux (00:01):

This is an interview conducted by Calvin Gower and John LeDoux for the Central Minnesota

Historical Center on March 20th, 1978. Today, we're interviewing Mrs. Linwood-Beaver. What

is your first name?

Beaver (00:01):

Angeline.

LeDoux (00:21):

Angeline Beaver, who lives in East St. Cloud. Let's start out by asking you about where your

parents came from and where you were born, when you were born and so on, please.

Beaver (00:39):

Okay. My dad came from Luxembourg, Europe. He got his education in England, and he came

over to this country and was the head gardener and florist at the St. Cloud Reformatory. Before

that time, he worked in St. Paul, and he worked at the reformatory for 37 years. Then he quit

working there and had a truck farm, which was right here in this area where I am now living,

comprised, I think there were 16 acres all together. He did that, I've forgotten for how many

years, but then he went back to the reformatory and worked there until he retired. My mother

was born in Canada. She came, I don't remember the dates, but she lived until she was 88, and

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my dad lived until he was 84. She came down here. Her folks lived out east of St. Cloud near St.

Patrick's Church. Let's see. What's the name of that? Mendon? No. Anyways, over, it's St.

Patrick's Church and she went to the normal school, which was called Normal School at that

time. Then she taught school.

I was born in the old house just behind where I live now at the present time. I was married in

1934, and my husband worked for Holes-Webway.

LeDoux (02:29):

Excuse me. What was your birthdate?

Beaver (02:31):

1907, August 13th, 1907.

Gower (02:35):

Was your mother of French descent?

Beaver (02:39):

Of French, I suppose French and it was Canada. I suppose it was French and, I don't know,

English, I suppose.

Gower (02:42):

What was her maiden name?

Beaver (02:47):

Rau.

Gower (02:48):

How did she spell it?

Beaver (02:50):

R-A-U.

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Gower (02:57):

R-A-U.

Beaver (02:57):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (02:57):

Your father was from Luxembourg?

Beaver (02:57):

Europe, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (02:57):

He was a young man when he came over here?

Beaver (02:58):

Yes. I think he was about 25 or something like that when he came to this country.

Gower (03:04):

Had he learned gardening and so on there in Europe?

Beaver (03:11):

He'd gone to England, to college over there, and then he came to St. Paul and he worked. I've

forgotten who he worked for down there, but he worked down there, and then he came up here.

He was up here when the reformatory first opened.

Gower (03:30):

Did he get on there right away then?

Beaver (03:31):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, he was there.

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Gower (03:34):

You said that he had a truck garden here then, for a number of years, right here in this area.

Beaver (03:41):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (03:41):

To whom did he sell the vegetables?

Beaver (03:47):

He had a wagon that was drawn by two horses, and every other day, they'd go over on the west

side of the river where most of the population was at that time, and go up and down the street,

selling his vegetables.

Gower (04:04):

He sold right like this. He didn't necessarily sell to grocery stores.

Beaver (04:08):

No, when he was through in the morning, he'd go to the [Boeing 00:04:13] Grocery Store and the

[Hemans 00:04:15] Grocery Store. Those are the two I can remember. They would take what

products he had left.

Gower (04:20):

I see. What did he raise, potatoes?

Beaver (04:23):

Potatoes, any, all kinds.

Gower (04:25):

All kinds of vegetables. Did he raise any fruit, too?

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Beaver (04:27):

Yes. They had apples and grapes and plums, a big orchard he had.

Gower (04:33):

This was essentially a seasonal thing, then?

Beaver (04:37):

Well, yes.

Gower (04:39):

What did he do in the wintertime?

Beaver (04:40):

In the wintertime, he worked for a florist, and I can't think of the name of the florist. They used

to be on the east side, right by the railroad tracks.

Gower (04:57):

What about that Benny's?

Beaver (04:58):

No, Hmm-mmm (negative). It wasn't Benny's at that time. I can't think of it. It was right near the

depot over there.

Gower (05:02):

Up in there? Sure.

Beaver (05:04):

Right where the, I can't think of the name of it, thought.

Gower (05:08):

He worked for this florist?

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Beaver (05:10):

He'd do it in the wintertime, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (05:16):

That's quite interesting, because at least around here, you don't have that kind of thing much.

Beaver (05:19):

That's right, but when he was at the reformatory, of course, he worked there year-round.

Gower (05:19):

Sure.

LeDoux (05:25):

How long did he work at this truck gardening?

Beaver (05:31):

Oh, it must have been, goodness, it must have been 15 years, I suppose. Then he went back.

LeDoux (05:42):

Do you recall about what year he stopped?

Beaver (05:46):

No, I don't. Then he went back. Let's see. I was married in 1934 and he was working at the

reformatory then, so that was about ten years ago.

Gower (06:02):

Did he prefer working at the reformatory, you think?

Beaver (06:07):

No, I think it just got too much for him.

Gower (06:10):

Too much there for him, the individual business and so on?

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Beaver (06:10):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (06:16):

How had he acquired the land that he used for the truck gardening? Did he rent it?

Beaver (06:21):

No, he bought it. He had bought it. He had bought it, and the house, the original house that they

lived in was just, the big house is still there. It was just the back part of it. It was just the kitchen

area. There were Indians living in it at the time he bought it. That was the only building on the

place.

LeDoux (06:45):

East St. Cloud was essentially undeveloped then, other than the railroad station?

Beaver (06:51):

That's right. Just a few houses here and there, and they were scattered to the east side.

Gower (06:57):

This was true maybe until quite a ways into the 1900s?

Beaver (07:01):

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative). I can remember when there was just a very narrow road that went

across from that corner down there across to where the bridge is, where we'd go to school.

Gower (07:15):

Sure, yeah. How many brothers and sisters did you have?

Beaver (07:20):

I have three brothers.

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Gower (07:21):

Three brothers.

Beaver (07:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (07:25):

Okay. Then you got married in 1934.

Beaver (07:28):

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (07:29):

Your husband worked at Holes-Webway?

Beaver (07:29):

For 46 years.

Gower (07:32):

For 46 years.

Beaver (07:35):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (07:35):

What was his background, your husband's background?

Beaver (07:38):

He was born in Faribault, and came to town. His folks came here when he was just a small baby.

His dad sold insurance, I think, at that time.

Gower (07:53):

Were his parents from the United States originally?

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Beaver (07:58):

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (07:58):

Both of them were? He was--

Beaver (08:02):

I suppose his dad's maybe background. His name was Von Beaver, and I suppose it's German. I

suppose maybe his, we never traced his folks back. I imagine that they were from Germany.

Gower (08:21):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), sure. John, did you want to ask something?

LeDoux (08:27):

Was there a certain ethnic type that was living on this side of the river? As far as you know, was

it mostly Germans or mostly one nationality?

Beaver (08:36):

There was a Swedish settlement right up over the hill from here. They used to call it Swede

Hollow.

LeDoux (08:43):

Swede Hollow.

Beaver (08:43):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's just up over on 11th Avenue. Those people are, they're all gone.

There were quite a few people that lived over there, and they always call that Swede Hollow.

The men worked in the quarries, which were back, the Hilder quarry which was, you know

where that was at the end of the street down there.

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Gower (09:04):

Sure. Yeah.

Beaver (09:08):

Outside of that, I don't think there were any other nationalities, but that I do remember, because

we used to know the people that lived there.

LeDoux (09:17):

Were there any trading establishments or general stores on this side of the river, on the east side,

when you were a little girl, if you recall?

Beaver (09:17):

No.

LeDoux (09:29):

Did everyone cross the river to do all their business?

Beaver (09:31):

Yeah. No, there weren't any stores on this side that I recall, until later years, when there was a

store right down here on the top of the hill. That was the only store we had in here.

Gower (09:45):

Did they have a couple of bridges across the river or the 10th Street bridge and the old St.

Germain bridge?

Beaver (09:51):

Yeah, those are the only two that I can remember.

Gower (09:52):

Sure. You could get across either place there and then [inaudible 00:09:56].

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Beaver (09:56):

Yeah, that's right.

LeDoux (10:00):

What was St. Cloud like, as far as you remember, the downtown area at that time?

Beaver (10:07):

I can remember the streetcars going from the bottom of below 10th Street up 5th Avenue out to

Waite Park that we used to go out to Waite Park, take our picnic lunch and go swimming.

Everybody used to swim out there at the end of the streetcar line.

Gower (10:24):

Were there any streetcars on the east side?

Beaver (10:27):

Hmm-mmm (negative). No.

Gower (10:27):

Did you pick them up over there on the west side?

Beaver (10:29):

No, we had to walk over there.

Gower (10:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (10:32):

What sort of stores were common to that time? Do you recall that you shopped anywhere?

Beaver (10:38):

Just the grocery stores and Fandel’s. That's always been there, and Herberger's, but it wasn't

Herberger's then. It was a Harrison store, I think it was called. Jones the candy man. I can

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remember his store. He had an ice cream parlor and he made his own candy. That was right in

the area where Herberger's is now.

Gower (11:04):

Jones the candy man?

Beaver (11:05):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (11:07):

Were there a lot of clothing type establishments on Main Street?

Beaver (11:12):

There was a hat store. I remember that, the Enderly Hat Store and Metzroth’s, of course, I

remember. Let's see. What else? It's hard to think back.

LeDoux (11:32):

How did the university look? How was it different than now?

Beaver (11:50):

Well, I went to the Riverview School. They don't call it Riverview now. What do they call it?

The Lab School?

Gower (11:50):

Yeah, they call it the campus laboratory school.

Beaver (11:51):

I went to the Riverview School, and then next to that, that building is still there.

Gower (11:55):

It's the English building now.

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Beaver (11:57):

Then the building next to it was the library, and that's been torn down, I believe.

Gower (12:00):

Yes.

Beaver (12:01):

Then the next one was the main, they call that Old Main. That was as far as the buildings went

when I went there. Lawrence Hall was there, and Shoemaker Hall, those two halls, and that was

it.

Gower (12:13):

Okay. All of the campus was on the east side of 1st Avenue, except for Shoemaker Hall.

Beaver (12:23):

That's right.

Gower (12:24):

And houses all the way along there.

Beaver (12:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), all the way along, and there was a store across the street from, right

where Atwood Center is now.

Gower (12:34):

Yeah, and there also was a store down there at the bottom of the hill, at least for part of the time,

I think.

Beaver (12:39):

Yeah, that was Gussy.

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LeDoux (12:41):

Gus's, yeah.

Beaver (12:41):

He still lives over here, you know.

Gower (12:43):

Does he?

LeDoux (12:44):

Is that right?

Beaver (12:44):

He might be interesting to talk to.

Gower (12:46):

I didn't know he was around here anymore.

Beaver (12:48):

Oh, yeah. He lives right up over the hill here.

LeDoux (12:54):

I remember my grandma [inaudible 00:12:54].

Beaver (12:54):

He's getting up there in years, but he comes to church.

LeDoux (13:01):

What was his last name? Do you recall?

Beaver (13:01):

Spanos.

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Gower (13:01):

Spanos.

LeDoux (13:01):

Gus Spanos.

Beaver (13:03):

He lives over here on 11th Avenue Southeast.

LeDoux (13:05):

I didn't know he lived here.

Beaver (13:07):

Yeah, his daughter lives with him, but he's getting up there in years. I'm sure he could tell you

some of his experiences having the store.

LeDoux (13:17):

Sure.

Gower (13:20):

Did you go to the normal school, too?

Beaver (13:21):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (13:23):

Was it quite a small group of people then of enrollment?

Beaver (13:27):

Yes, very small. Yeah, it wasn't too many.

LeDoux (13:30):

This was approximately what year now?

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Beaver (13:32):

50 years ago. We celebrated our, I was at the last reunion for 50 years.

Gower (13:36):

Oh, yeah. That's right. That was, you graduated in 1927.

Beaver (13:36):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (13:42):

Did you go for the two-year program?

Beaver (13:44):

Yes. Then I had gone back, but I never quite finished. I never quite got four years in. It was over

at three, I guess.

Gower (13:52):

Did you take a teaching program, then?

Beaver (13:54):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (13:55):

Then did you teach for a while?

Beaver (13:56):

Yes, I taught in girls' schools.

Gower (13:59):

Here around the St. Cloud?

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Beaver (14:00):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I taught out in Benton County for a year, no, three years. I taught the

first year, I taught out just east of town here about six, seven miles, I guess it was. Then I taught

at Popple Creek for a couple of years. Then I taught one year in Albany. They had a one-teacher

school there in the public schools because they had a parochial school there, so most of the

children went there.

Gower (14:00):

I see.

Beaver (14:34):

Then I taught down here. There was a school down here about three miles down the road here

that I taught for one year.

Gower (14:40):

On the east side of the river?

Beaver (14:42):

Yeah, for $50 a month, I got.

Gower (14:45):

Were you teaching then in the one-room schools, all those times?

Beaver (14:45):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). There were a lot of schools at that time, one room.

Gower (14:53):

Did you have to do all kinds of things there, make the fire, everything else there?

Beaver (14:58):

Oh, yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

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Gower (15:05):

Wow. Did you have very many students?

Beaver (15:05):

Well, the one year when I taught out at Popple Creek, I had 45 students for four grades. I had the

lower grades.

LeDoux (15:12):

They combined several grades.

Beaver (15:14):

Out there, they did. They had first four were one teacher, and the upper, she had about 45, too.

That was a big school, but other years, I only had, down here in the country, I only had about

nine, I guess it was. In Albany, I had 15.

Gower (15:34):

Did you like teaching?

Beaver (15:37):

I did at that time, but I'd never go back to it, never.

Gower (15:43):

Is that all you taught then, during those years before you got married?

Beaver (15:46):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Gower (15:48):

At the time there, you liked it quite a bit, though.

Beaver (15:52):

Yeah.

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Gower (15:52):

Sure.

LeDoux (15:55):

At this time, were you attending St. John's Church, Episcopal Church?

Beaver (16:02):

Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). I went to Sunday school there.

Gower (16:05):

Did your parents go to church there?

Beaver (16:07):

No, my mother did, but my father went to the Catholic church.

Gower (16:14):

I see.

Beaver (16:16):

My mother went to, something happened in the church, and she wouldn't go to the Catholic

church anymore.

Gower (16:19):

Your mother had been a Catholic?

Beaver (16:20):

Yeah. They were married in the Catholic church.

Gower (16:23):

I see. She went to the Episcopal church then.

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Beaver (16:29):

Seems to me that, I've forgotten which church it was where they went, but anyway, she couldn't

pay for her pew, and the priest wouldn't let her sit in the pew. I guess in those days, they had to

pay for their pew or something.

Gower (16:44):

Pew rent, yeah.

Beaver (16:45):

She couldn't pay, and he wouldn't let her sit there, so she didn't like that, so she just quit.

Gower (16:51):

Did all of you children, then, go to the Episcopal church?

Beaver (16:56):

No, just my one brother, my youngest brother and myself. By that time, the other two had been, I

guess the other two had been brought up Catholic.

Gower (17:07):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Beaver (17:09):

It was just my younger brother and myself that went.

Gower (17:16):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). This was when your mother switched there, it was after she was married

and had had her children.

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Beaver (17:22):

Yeah, because we went. Let me see. No, my other brother went there for a while to Sunday

school, too, but he married a Catholic girl, so he went back to the church, I guess. He went back

to the Catholic church.

Gower (17:38):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), sure. You went to Sunday school at the Episcopal church and you were

confirmed there and so on?

Beaver (17:38):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (17:46):

You actually have been in that church for a long time.

Beaver (17:49):

I wasn't confirmed, I guess, until after, when I was going to be married, though. I don't know

how that happened or why that was, because I remember it. My husband was Episcopalian, and I

was confirmed then during the time Mr. Biller was here. We were married in 1934.

Gower (18:14):

You were in the church, though, maybe from 1917 on, or 1920 on?

Beaver (18:26):

Yeah. Well, let's see. I can remember about seven, eight years old, I was, and we used to walk

from here over there every Sunday morning. I can remember how cold it was.

Gower (18:38):

Yeah, that'd be quite a long walk, across a bridge.

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Beaver (18:42):

Yeah. I can remember how cold the church was.

Gower (18:49):

Now where did you meet your husband then? He grew up here?

Beaver (18:49):

In high school. Yeah.

Gower (18:49):

He grew up here in St. Cloud, too?

Beaver (18:56):

He grew up here. High school.

Gower (18:57):

You went to high school together there.

Beaver (18:59):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (19:04):

Did he start working for Holes-Webway right out of high school?

Beaver (19:08):

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative). Even before he was through high school, he worked there after

school.

LeDoux (19:15):

What sort of job did he do when he got out of high school at Holes?

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Beaver (19:19):

Let me see. He started out as janitor, sort of, sweeping the floor and things like that. Then he set

type, because they did a lot of printing at that time, and he worked himself up so he was vice-

president. He was second in really charge of the company when he died. He retired in June and

he died in October, but he was vice-president when he quit.

Gower (20:01):

Was the Holes-Webway company, what size company was it back in those earlier years? Was it

a very large company?

Beaver (20:13):

No, it started in their house, in Mr. Holes' house, to start with. Then it moved. It was on 5th

Avenue. There still is a sign there on the red carpet, I think on the outside. It sits on the alleyway.

I think it says Holes-Webway on the back there. Then they were on the east side, and as they

expanded, why, they had to get larger quarters. They were above the OK Café in there for some

time, and then they moved, I think, to the east side, above, let me see. Where were they? Above,

they were upstairs. Where was that? Where Carl's is now, I think.

Gower (20:54):

Right above Carl's?

Beaver (20:57):

Then they moved to Sauk Rapids. During the war, they were over in Sauk Rapids under where

the locker plant is, I think. Now, it seems to me the locker plant is under there. Then they moved

out to where Franklin is now. They were out there at the time they had the explosion in the

building and the wall went down. Mr. Holes had his back broken. I've forgotten how many years

ago that was.

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LeDoux (21:27):

I believe that newspaper's '38, I believe.

Beaver (21:31):

Yeah. Did I give you a newspaper on that?

LeDoux (21:33):

Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (21:34):

1938.

Beaver (21:35):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (21:36):

Did they find out what had caused all this?

Beaver (21:38):

Yeah. They were working with Stearns Manufacturing. They were working with chemicals or

something and they had exposure.

Gower (21:42):

Exactly what did Holes-Webway produce?

Beaver (21:51):

He started out with, he invented an album, picture album, and that was what they first started out

with, but they got into different things then, like sign-making, but that was their big item there,

picture albums.

Gower (22:14):

Then they had a lot of emphasis upon sales of these? Did they have quite a sales force?

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Beaver (22:19):

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative). They used to do--

Gower (22:19):

Was your husband involved in the sales part?

Beaver (22:25):

No, he was in the plant. He had charge of the plant. When he went into service, he was gone for

24 months. Then when he came back, they were out on the highway out near, across from where

Big Bear is now. That was their building. They remodeled that building. You wouldn't know it,

across from Big Bear.

Gower (22:52):

Across from Big Bear?

Beaver (22:52):

Yeah, not across the highway. Across the street.

Gower (22:55):

I see. Sure.

Beaver (22:56):

That used to be Holes-Webway.

Gower (22:58):

This was in the 1940s, you mean?

Beaver (23:02):

Let me see. Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (23:02):

I see.

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Beaver (23:02):

Yeah, they were out there. Let's see. He came back, and I think they just moved into that

building when he came back from service into that building. Then, of course, they outgrew that,

and they built. They're down now on Clearwater Road.

Gower (23:20):

They moved around quite a bit.

Beaver (23:21):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (23:22):

Were they expanding all the time, pretty much?

Beaver (23:22):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (23:27):

Did they switch as far as what they produced at all during the war? Did they produce anything

useful to the war effort? Were they asked to or anything?

Beaver (23:38):

Not that I remember, no.

LeDoux (23:39):

They went right on with the same type?

Beaver (23:39):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

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Gower (23:42):

What happened during the Depression of the 1930's? Was Holes-Webway in any kind of trouble

then?

Beaver (23:55):

1930s. I don't remember that. I can't remember. Yes, I guess, let me see.

Gower (23:59):

Your husband was working for them all through the 1930s.

Beaver (24:01):

He was working for them. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, our salary was cut down to, we were living

on $40 a month for a while.

Gower (24:01):

They did have some, did feel the effects of that somewhat.

LeDoux (24:18):

You don't recall him talking about people losing their jobs in the company or afraid of losing

their jobs?

Beaver (24:18):

No, that I don't remember.

Gower (24:25):

It was more cutbacks in the wages.

Beaver (24:28):

In the wages, I think. Yeah.

Gower (24:36):

Okay. You and your husband were married in the Episcopal church, then?

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Beaver (24:39):

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (24:45):

This was the church, the old church building that burned.

Beaver (24:48):

Yes, the one that burned.

Gower (24:50):

Was the church very large then, in those years, a very large congregation?

Beaver (24:55):

No, that was about 100 families.

Gower (24:57):

About 100 families.

Beaver (25:01):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), and it isn't much more now, you know. It doesn't, they come and go, it

seems like.

LeDoux (25:07):

Was this, as far as nationalities, a mixed congregation, or was it predominantly one or two

nationalities that made up the parish, or your church?

Beaver (25:07):

No, I don't think, it's mixed.

LeDoux (25:07):

Okay.

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Gower (25:25):

What about the ministers? Were they pretty much from an English background?

Beaver (25:30):

Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mr. Biller was here at the time we were married, and he was

English.

Gower (25:42):

Okay. Now, did you and your husband live right here, right after you got married then, right in

this area?

Beaver (25:50):

No. We had an apartment over up near the hospital on 10th Avenue. No, 8th Avenue North.

Gower (25:58):

When did you come over here?

Beaver (26:00):

We lived there for five years, and then we built our house here.

Gower (26:03):

This house that you're in here right now?

Beaver (26:03):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (26:08):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). What was this like then, at that time? Was the area still pretty much

undeveloped as far as houses were concerned and so on?

30

Beaver (26:19):

Yes. There was, let's see, my brother that lived down on the corner, his house was there, and my

brother next door. That one was there, and then the old house, and then ours. That was all that

was there. Then my other brother built after, two years after we did. His was down two doors

from here, in the same area. We all lived in the same.

Gower (26:40):

What had happened is your dad had owned this land and then he gave the land to his offspring

here?

Beaver (26:49):

To each one. Mm-hmm (affirmative). He gave us each a half an acre.

Gower (26:50):

Each a half an acre. Then the rest of the land remained as truck gardening for a while?

Beaver (26:56):

Remained, no. He had rented it out to somebody, and they had put it in hay, I think it was. On

both sides of the road by us, it was planted in hay. Some farmers rented it.

LeDoux (27:16):

When did you first become active in the women's organizations in the church?

Beaver (27:22):

Right after I was married, 1934. I taught Sunday school for four years, I think it was. I was just

looking in that, those things I gave you, and I noticed there it said I was active in 1934 in the

Sunday school, and then I was active in the women's organizations and in the guilds that they

had at that time. In the Altar Guild, I wasn't active until 1938, because that was when we formed

31

an Altar Guild. Before that, they had, it was Mrs. Brigham who took care of the altar. She was

just one person that did it.

LeDoux (28:04):

About roughly how many members were in the women's organizations you joined at that time in

1934, do you guess?

Beaver (28:13):

I think our attendance was about 35 women in the auxiliary, which was the big organization.

Then there were smaller groups that were formed within that.

LeDoux (28:31):

Everyone was a member?

Beaver (28:32):

Of the auxiliary.

LeDoux (28:32):

Of the auxiliary.

Beaver (28:32):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (28:34):

You were a member of that, and then which other guilds?

Beaver (28:39):

Let's see. There was a sewing group that I was a member of, that we used to make things for the

bazaar. Then St. John's Guild, which was a money-making organization of the church. The

auxiliary didn't make any money. We just had dues, and that was it. It was more of a missionary

study group.

32

LeDoux (29:03):

St. John's, was that like a building fund whenever the church would need improvements?

Beaver (29:03):

Yeah.

LeDoux (29:04):

That was the group that raised the money.

Beaver (29:08):

Yeah, we raised the money. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (29:13):

What other guilds were there?

Beaver (29:14):

There was a St. Martha's Guild. I think that was the sewing group, I think that was. Then there

was a, in later years, I wasn't active. That was the Bishop Morrison group. I wasn't active in that

one.

LeDoux (29:29):

Was there a St. Agnes Guild?

Beaver (29:31):

St. Agnes, yeah. That was the beginning of the Altar Guild. Then we changed the name. In 1938,

when we reorganized it, we changed it to St. Anne's Altar Guild.

LeDoux (29:46):

What type of activities would you typically pursue in the women's auxiliary? You said it was a

missionary group.

33

Beaver (29:55):

We met once a month, and we'd have programs, something on the church or our work at the

church.

LeDoux (30:08):

[inaudible 00:30:08]

Beaver (30:07):

Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (30:12):

Did you like that, being in those organizations quite a bit?

Beaver (30:17):

Yes. I was real active. I held offices, it seemed like, in all of them that I was in.

Gower (30:26):

Were these sort of social outlets for you, or did you look at them as service organizations? What

kind of function did they fill for you?

Beaver (30:44):

I think it was both.

Gower (30:48):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). You liked to get together with the other women, but also then you were

doing various kinds of service things there. Did these change very much as the years went along?

Beaver (31:04):

Yes, as the years went on, they seemed to. I think it was due to the people got into other things,

and they didn't have time. There was too much to do, so people had not as much time to give to

the church.

34

Gower (31:24):

Did younger women not join as years went along? Is that it, or was it just that members who

were members began not to attend as much?

Beaver (31:32):

Yeah, I think that was it, and then we had our problems in church. I think people just quit

coming. Then it was hard to get them back again.

Gower (31:48):

Yeah, that happens, too. Now, did you do some work in these groups during World War II in

connection with the war?

Beaver (31:53):

Let me see. That was the time my husband was gone. He was in service, so no. I went back to

work, so then I sort of gave up.

Gower (32:04):

Oh, you weren't involved much then.

Beaver (32:05):

Yeah, I worked at Gamble's store, it's called. Now it's Temple.

Gower (32:11):

This was for a couple of years?

Beaver (32:13):

Yeah, for two years, so then I got out of the church, out of the work.

Gower (32:19):

What did your husband, where was he in the war? What branch of the Services?

35

Beaver (32:19):

He was in the infantry.

Gower (32:19):

He was in the infantry.

Beaver (32:19):

Yeah, he went in as a replacement, and--

Gower (32:34):

Your husband was drafted into the Army in 1942?

Beaver (32:37):

'42.

Gower (32:40):

After his basic training and the time back on leave, then he went overseas?

Beaver (32:46):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), in January.

Gower (32:46):

This was over to Europe?

Beaver (32:48):

Europe, Italy.

Gower (32:49):

In January 1943.

Beaver (32:51):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

36

Gower (32:53):

Probably, I assume that was. Then he was involved in the invasion of Italy.

Beaver (33:00):

Italy. He went up all the way from the bottom part of, they landed in Africa, and then they took

them across and they went all the way up through Italy. He was wounded, and he was in the

hospital, and he got yellow jaundice, too, so he spent a whole month in the hospital with that.

Gower (33:22):

How old was he in these years?

Beaver (33:28):

Let's see. He was, what was he? He got out. They left him out. He got out because of his age.

What was it, age 44 or 45?

Gower (33:38):

I think it was 45. I'm not sure.

Beaver (33:38):

45. I think it was 45.

Gower (33:40):

Was he born in about 1905 or so?

Beaver (33:44):

He was a little younger than I was.

Gower (33:45):

Oh, a little bit younger.

Beaver (33:45):

Yeah, he was a little younger than I was.

37

Gower (33:45):

1908?

Beaver (33:45):

1909.

Gower (33:51):

1909. No, he still would have been only in his early 40s, then, in 1944. He would have been 45

then.

Beaver (33:59):

45, yeah.

Gower (33:59):

That's it. That's probably when he was--

Beaver (34:01):

He got out. That's how he got out of the Army, because of his age. He was sent back, then, after

the war was over with. He worked in, before he was sent back, though, he worked in a dry-

cleaning place over there in Italy that was run by the Army. Then he came home. He was home

for, 1945, I think it was, he came home for, he was home for Thanksgiving. Then he got back for

Thanksgiving.

Gower (34:27):

He was in the infantry all the time there, until at the end there, when he was in this other activity

for a while. Gosh. He must have been 41 or 42 years old when he was drafted.

Beaver (34:42):

When he went in, yeah.

38

Gower (34:43):

That's quite unusual, I think. I don't know.

Beaver (34:43):

At that time, they were drafting men that were older, because they needed them, I guess.

Gower (34:52):

He had, how many children did you have?

Beaver (34:52):

We didn't have any.

Gower (34:55):

You had no children. That might have made some difference. I don't know. Was he, what were

his reactions to the war?

Beaver (35:07):

He never talked about it.

Gower (35:08):

He never did talk. That's what I run into all the time.

Beaver (35:10):

Nope, he never talked, unless you asked him questions, but he never really talked about it.

Gower (35:17):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. He was wounded in action in Italy, was it?

Beaver (35:21):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), in the leg. Yeah, his legs.

Gower (35:27):

Was it through shrapnel and so?

39

Beaver (35:27):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (35:33):

When he came back, then did he return to work at Holes-Webway?

Beaver (35:34):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, he went right back to work.

LeDoux (35:39):

What job did he? Did he come back and take the same job as he left?

Beaver (35:45):

As the one he left, yeah.

LeDoux (35:48):

What job is that?

Beaver (35:48):

Let's see. He was in charge of the plant part.

Gower (35:48):

Production.

Beaver (35:53):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), production.

LeDoux (35:57):

You are not, except for the two years you worked at Gamble's, you were not working.

Beaver (36:04):

No.

40

LeDoux (36:04):

Since the time you taught school.

Beaver (36:06):

No, I haven't worked since then. I've done volunteer work is all.

LeDoux (36:11):

During World War II, I believe I noted from some of the minutes of the women's groups that

various homes, I believe Mrs. Lewis's had been opened up for bandaging glasses and stuff.

Beaver (36:28):

Red Cross, mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (36:30):

Could you describe that at all, what types of activities, what was being done for the war effort on

that part? What types of things were going on, like bomb drives or clothing drives, either through

the church or anything that you were aware of?

Beaver (36:44):

I know that she had opened up her basement for, we'd go down there, and people would save

clean cloths, like old sheets and clean, and they would cut them up in bandage size and fold them

to be sent overseas for the wounded in the hospitals. They used to, I can remember we used to

sew. We used to make and knit. Some were knitting sweaters that would be sent over for the

soldiers. They used to make pajamas and then for the refugees, they used to make children's

clothes to be sent overseas. That was under the direction of the Red Cross.

LeDoux (37:31):

This was the Red Cross. This wasn't directly related to the church, was it?

41

Beaver (37:35):

The church did it through the Red Cross.

LeDoux (37:37):

Through the Red Cross. Were there any other activities, either through the regular guild meetings

or extra activities that they helped out to the war effort?

Beaver (37:46):

Let's see.

LeDoux (37:50):

Such as any food or clothing drives.

Beaver (37:53):

Well, yeah, I guess they did have. I think we did have drives for clothing that they sent over. It

was for the refugees, I'm sure.

LeDoux (38:03):

Who was the minister at that time, of the church? [inaudible 00:38:19]

Beaver (38:25):

It seemed like Mr. Biller? I think that was still Mr. Biller. [inaudible 00:38:30] I can't remember

who came after him at the moment.

Gower (38:41):

Your husband then worked for how much longer for Holes-Webway after he returned from the

Army?

Beaver (38:48):

Until he retired, which would have been 1975.

42

Gower (38:48):

He retired in 1975.

Beaver (38:50):

June of 1975, and then he died in October 1975.

Gower (38:58):

He worked for about 30 years.

Beaver (39:00):

40. No, it was 40. Altogether, it was 46 years.

Gower (39:06):

46. He had worked. It was almost 30 years after World War II, then, that he worked for them.

Beaver (39:09):

Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (39:15):

Were you, oops. I've better turn this off. I've got that turned off. Okay, now when did you start

noticing some fairly drastic changes over here in East St. Cloud then, as far as houses being built

and so on?

Beaver (39:33):

I think, let's see. We built in '34. I suppose about ten years after that.

Gower (39:42):

Maybe right near the end of World War II?

Beaver (39:42):

Yeah, shortly after that, the beginning. I think it started to build up.

43

Gower (39:49):

Then did they build out along, let's see, what is this street here? Minnesota?

Beaver (39:55):

This is Minnesota Boulevard.

Gower (39:57):

Yeah, did they build out along here and along Michigan and so on first?

Beaver (40:03):

Not too much. These houses, this area right in here was built after we built here, and across the

street, those few houses there. There wasn't too much building on Michigan until they put up

those apartments back there.

Gower (40:22):

What about along Kilian Boulevard? Was that built up earlier?

Beaver (40:24):

Yeah, that was built up earlier.

Gower (40:26):

Quite a bit of that was built before then.

Beaver (40:28):

Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Gower (40:31):

It's more over in this part, and then beyond.

Beaver (40:35):

This part is all new behind here, you see. That's just within the last five years or six years. Let's

see, seven years, maybe about ten years.

44

Gower (40:45):

This is in Sherburne County here, right?

Beaver (40:48):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (40:50):

Where's the line between Sherburne and Benton over here?

Beaver (40:55):

On 7th Street.

Gower (40:56):

On 7th Street?

Beaver (40:57):

7th Street, mm-hmm (affirmative), if you go up Kilian to the end of Kilian, that's 7th Street.

Gower (41:01):

That's the line between the two counties.

Beaver (41:04):

Yeah.

Gower (41:04):

You have to go to Elk River for county matters?

Beaver (41:07):

That's right. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (41:10):

Are there a number of people over here in East St. Cloud who favored having the county seat

relocated to Sherburne County because of this?

45

Beaver (41:22):

I think there were, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (41:22):

That they had to go all the way down there?

Beaver (41:22):

I think there were a lot of them.

Gower (41:24):

You have quite a buildup of population here. Your husband, then, retired in 1975.

Beaver (41:37):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (41:43):

And you had no children, then.

Beaver (41:46):

No children, no. Hmm-mmm (negative).

Gower (41:46):

Okay. John, do you have any more questions?

LeDoux (41:48):

I just had a couple of things. When your husband, I'm sorry, your father retired from the truck

garden business, did someone take over the business eventually?

Beaver (42:03):

No. It was never carried on.

LeDoux (42:04):

It wasn't.

46

Beaver (42:06):

No, my brothers didn't.

LeDoux (42:06):

I seem to remember, I have grandparents who live across the campus lab school, and I can still

remember a truck garden type of setup. It was probably drawn by a car by that time, coming into

the area. That's why I wondered if he passed it on to somebody.

Beaver (42:26):

No. That could have been Junaman, who had a truck farm long after my dad did.

Gower (42:32):

One other thing on that. When your dad was operating in his truck garden, was that the only

truck garden here in St. Cloud?

Beaver (42:42):

Junaman's was in business then.

Gower (42:42):

They were in the business at the same time?

Beaver (42:47):

I think so, yeah. Mr. Junaman was about the same age as my dad. Of course, then, their boys

carried it on after he died. Then there was a Schmidt, but I don't think the Schmidt gardeners

were as old as, they don't go back as far as, but, of course, the Junaman's are still around. They're

still living here.

Gower (43:12):

Sure, even though they gave up the business.

47

Beaver (43:17):

No, my brothers never went into it. The one worked for the post office, and the other two worked

for the telephone companies.

LeDoux (43:30):

What changes have you noticed in the Episcopal church since you first began going?

Beaver (43:39):

I don't think it's, now, I don't think it's as, when we used to go into church, it was a place of a

solemn worship, you might say, or you felt like you shouldn't make a lot of noise, but it's

different now when you go into church, it seems like. In our church, it is at least. Maybe it's

because of the way the church is built, if you've been in it. It's just, I don't know. It just doesn't

have the reverent feeling that you have as we did in the old church.

Gower (44:15):

There haven't been very many changes in the liturgy and so on of the church, have there?

Beaver (44:15):

No, Hmm-mmm (negative).

LeDoux (44:24):

What about the composition of the people that go there, the age range of the people attending and

the interest level as far as participation maybe? Has that changed in recent years, too?

Beaver (44:38):

I think there's a change in that, because a lot of the younger people work, so they haven't got time

for doing things in church like we used to. During our time, it seemed like the women did more

in the church than they do now.

48

Gower (44:58):

Do you have, are there a lot fewer women's organizations in the church?

Beaver (45:03):

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gower (45:03):

That's an indication of it, then.

Beaver (45:08):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). They have one, the women's auxiliary, and it meets. I don't know that it

even meets four times a year now.

Gower (45:18):

The fact that more women work outside the home may have had quite an adverse effect on these

women's organizations in the church?

Beaver (45:18):

I think so.

Gower (45:28):

That's your impression.

Beaver (45:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LeDoux (45:31):

Is there a younger or a newer group of people in the congregation? In other words, has there been

a great turnover within certain time range that makes it seem different as far?

49

Beaver (45:44):

I think so. There are very few of the older people left, and they're getting along in years, so they

don't feel they want to go out. At night, they don't want to go out to any meetings. It's hard for

some of them to get out. I don't know.

LeDoux (46:11):

I just had one last question. This is kind of a general question, but just reflecting back over the

years, how has the town of St. Cloud as a whole changed? What seems different about it now

than when you first were growing up in St. Cloud?

Beaver (46:33):

We used to know everybody in town. Now, you can go down the street, and you don't meet

anybody.

Gower (46:39):

Because it's got so much larger, the population?

Beaver (46:41):

I think so, yeah. I know we went out to eat the other night, and we knew nobody. I said, "Now,

that's unusual. It used to be we'd go out and we'd see a lot of people." It's just gotten to be more

like a large city, but we used to go uptown. You'd walk down the street, and you'd see any

number of people you know. Now, you see nobody.

LeDoux (47:13):

This town is an old German town, and it was quite, I guess, close-knit as far as people who

settled there in the earlier days. Do you think that's changed a lot in recent times as far as who's

moved to this area, what types of businesses have been started?

50

Beaver (47:36):

Yeah, I think that's changed. Yeah. There's so many different businesses now that didn't used to

be here. Yeah, I think that that's changed.

Gower (47:47):

Okay. John, anything else here? Okay, thank you very much. This concludes this interview.