Interview With Professor Robert Faurisson-Tehran, December 13, 2006

8/11/2019 Interview With Professor Robert Faurisson-Tehran, December 13, 2006

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Interview With Professor Robert Faurisson

"No documents, no history".

Interview with Professor Robert Faurisson at the Guest House of the Ministry of Foreign ffairs of the

Is!amic Reub!ic of Iran

#ehran, $ecember %&, '(()

Introduction by Michael A. Hofman

In honor of World War II revisionist historian Dr. Robert Faurisson's 79th birthday,

January 25, 200, !e are "ublishin# this intervie! $ondu$ted in %ehran, De$e&ber (,

200) by a *er&an $iti+en, i&&ediately after Iran's revisionist $onferen$e had

$on$luded.

In s"ite of so&e bitter dis"utes !e have had in the "ast !ith Dr. Faurisson any

friendshi" !hi$h $annot !eather su$h dis"utes it not a true friendshi"-, and the fa$t that!e $ontinue to disa#ree !ith so&e of his ideas and $on$lusions, Robert Faurisson is

undoubtedly one of the bravest &en it has been our "rivile#e to no!.

%he sa$rifi$es he has &ade, both in his $areer as a university "rofessor, and in his"ersonal life, have been so enor&ous they !ould have driven a lesser &an to &adness

or re$antation and surrender. In addition to losin# his "rofessorshi" and bein# saddled!ith hu#e $ourt fines, he has been re"eatedly "hysi$ally assaulted, $ul&inatin# in a

brutal atta$ in 99 that re/uired his hos"itali+ation.

Robert !ould not !ant to be re#arded as a &artyr, but the fa$t is, he is indeed a&artyr to freedo& of s"ee$h and in/uiry. obel "ri+es #o to obs$ure $a&"ai#ners for

hu&an ri#hts in %hird World $ountries, !hile under the very nose of the obel$o&&ittee is Faurisson of Fran$e. 1is $oura#eous $a&"ai#n and the ri#hts ofrevisionists, &ean nothin# to the West that other!ise is so "o&"ous in its &orali+in#

le$tures to the usli& !orld, on the need for 3de&o$ra$y and freedo& of e4"ression.3What they &ean by that slo#an is freedo& for the do&inion of ionis&, Judais& and its

offshoot reli#ion for #entiles, 1olo$austianity, and 6ail or !orse for all !ho dissent.

Dr. Faurisson is $urrently bein# "rose$uted by the #overn&ent of Fran$e forhavin# s"oen at the %ehran revisionist $onferen$e. 1e has been re"eatedly "rose$uted

and fined in the "ast for his revisionist boos and essays. ean!hile, *er&ar Rudolf,8rnst undel, *eor#es %hiel, Wolf#an# Frohli$h and in$redibly, ylvia tol+, r.

undel's defense attorney, are all either servin# "rison ter&s or have been senten$ed to"rison in 8uro"e for blas"he&in# the 1oly :eo"le's 1oly ;us$h!it+ *as


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He!!o. It*s I who than+ you for your wi!!ingness to ut uestions.

Professor, may I ask what your reasons were for deciding to take part in this conference in Tehran on

the Holocaust on December th and !th, !""#$

It*s because I +now of no other

country, no !ace where a

conference on this sub-ect cou!d

we!come me. ven in the /nited0tates the ho!ding of such a

conference wou!d be ris+y1 to begin

with, uon arriva! on merican

territory any foreign revisionist cou!d

we!! find himse!f being sent straight

bac+ to where he*d come from. In

France, any simi!ar gathering wou!d

be out of the uestion. I don*t see a

sing!e uroean country that wou!d

to!erate a ub!ic conference or

debate on the 2Ho!ocaust3. InGermany, your country, the

rohibition of any form of revisionism

is draconian. 4anada, ustra!ia and

New 5ea!and are merci!ess.

Furthermore, it may be that in other

arts of the wor!d some countries are indifferent to the matter. #hus it was an a!together une6ected

bit of !uc+ that Iran shou!d offer to host an internationa! seminar on the 2Ho!ocaust3 that, for once,

wou!d be oen to a!! comers. It was not actua!!y a revisionist conference but, as indicated by the tit!e

72Review of the Ho!ocaust8 G!oba! 9ision3:, a new !oo+ at the 2Ho!ocaust3 from a comrehensive

viewoint and not a biased or fragmentary one. I didn*t thin+ this cou!d come about in my !ifetime.

%hat goal have you been looking to achieve in coming here$

I want to ma+e ub!ic what the mainstream media of the ;estern wor!d stubborn!y concea!. ;hen

those media sea+ of revisionists, it*s to insu!t us or ascribe to us ideas that we*ve never e6ressed.

For e6am!e, they readi!y assert that the revisionists are eo!e who c!aim the German concentration

cams never e6isted. #hat*s utting sheer nonsense in our mouths. /nhai!y the nonsensica!

assertion, amongst the French in any case, is widesread.


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government had its say in the matter with an officia! rotest. #hen in ng!and. #hen, at the /N, Bofi

nnan gave tongue. #he 9atican as we!!. ccording to a!! these authorities, there are no grounds for

as+ing onese!f uestions about the 2Ho!ocaust3 of the Cews. #he 2Ho!ocaust3 too+ !ace and that*s that.

Aut I*ve romised you that e6am!e of the beginnings of a ub!ic confrontation. Here it is. #hat match

of yesterday itted me against an Iranian rofessor from 0hira? /niversity, who a!so teaches at the

/niversity of the 0tate of ;ashington 7/0:1 his name is Gho!am 9atandoust. t one oint in his

resentation he dared to say that the 2Ho!ocaust3 was 2fu!!y documented3, that is, who!!y confirmed byva!id documentation. #hen, after his ta!+, when the audience was ab!e to ut uestions, I as+ed this

rofessor to name me a document, and I insisted on the fact that I didn*t care to hear about a set of

documents1 I wanted -ust one. He started answering by saying how 4hurchi!!, in his memoirs, had

denounced the Na?i atrocities. I ointed out that never had 4hurchi!! mentioned the 2gas chambers3

and that such was the case as we!! with isenhower, de Gau!!e and others of their stature. I reminded

him that what I was waiting for was the designation of a document. I had him note that ;inston

4hurchi!!, in the remar+s a!!uded to, was a o!itician e6ressing his sentiments. However, I was not

!oo+ing to +now anyone*s sentiments, be they even those of a ersona!ity !i+e 4hurchi!!. t that oint,

the Iranian rofessor be!ieved he*d come u with another argument. He to!d me it wou!d be enough to

accomany him to the merican Nationa! rchives, where I shou!d find documents. #his wasn*t an

answer since, again, I was demanding to hear of but one document. Cust then the situation reminded meof the story of the ang!er and the big fish. n ang!er boasts of recent!y ma+ing an e6traordinary hau!, a

tru!y miracu!ous catch, and, when I as+ to see the fish, retorts8 2How*s thatD re you ca!!ing my word

into doubtD If you*re a doubting #homas and won*t grant me your trust, I can show you the !ace where I

caught that fish.3


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$evi!. s in Goethe*s hrase, we revisionists wou!d be artisans of 2the sirit that ever denies3,

wou!dn*t weD In rea!ity, we deny nothing at a!!1 sim!y, after com!eting our research wor+, we

cha!!enge certain affirmations and come forth with our own findings. Ga!i!eo 2denied3 nothing but, at

the end of his !abours, he stated that a certain idea, genera!!y admitted, was wrong and that another

idea was right.

*an you sum up the substance of your own contribution to the conference$

My ta!+ was on 2the victories of revisionism3, in other words the concessions that the antirevisionistshave over the years been forced to ma+e to us. I recommend that eo!e consu!t the te6t itse!f, which I

entit!ed sim!y 2#he 9ictories of Revisionism3 and in which I rovide a se!ection of twenty instances of

such victories. #hey run from %J( to '((K, and some of them are uite dramatic. /nfortunate!y the

genera! ub!ic +now nothing of it a!! because we have no access to the media.

+n eample, if you please, of these victories$

I cou!d cite the case of Cean4!aude Pressac. For years, that rot=g= of the B!arsfe!d cou!e had

resumed to state he*d discovered roof of the 2Na?i gas chambers*3 e6istence. boo+ of his, in %&

%K, was !aden with raise throughout the big media. In %K I re!ied with a boo+!et that earned me

new crimina! roceedings. Hai!y I got Pressac suboenaed to aear at the tria!. #his was in May

%J, in Paris. His co!!ase under e6amination was sectacu!ar. He never got bac+ u again. #o hercredit, 9a!=rie Igounet, a French historian hosti!e to revisionism, reroduced in her '((( boo+ Histoire

du n=gationnisme en France a sort of act of surrender signed by Pressac. #he !atter, in effect, had

ended u admitting that the dossier on the German concentration cams was 2rotten3 L his word, that

L with too many !ies. He even added that a definitive!y 2rotten3 dossier had been got u around

wartime suffering that was a!! too rea! and L in his own hrase L that dossier was 2bound for the

rubbish bins of history3.

-urprising %hat became of Pressac$

His Cewish friends, of course, disowned him. He died in '((&, aged J. #he media*s si!ence was tota!.

Pressac is one of the host of eo!e who have roved unab!e to ta+e u the cha!!enge I !aunched bac+

in the %(s. t that time I*d demonstrated how the case for the e6istence of the a!!eged Na?i gaschambers ran into some radica! imossibi!ities. #he Eeuchter Reort and the Rudo!f Reort, not to

mention a few other reorts or views e6ressed by men of science, subseuent!y confirmed my

demonstration.

Here, in Tehran, you began your talk with a word of warning about the photographs said to be of /a0i

atrocities. %hy$

Aecause eo!e*s minds are steeed in them. In the business of !ying roaganda nothing*s more

sim!e and effective than the use of hotograhs. ou don*t even need any com!icated montages. It*s

enough to show images of the sic+, the dying or the dead and, in re!ation to these, sea+ of the +i!!ed,

the murdered or the s!aughtered.


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oor wretches to such a state, as they were uite sim!y carrying out a o!icy of hysica! e6termination

of the detainees. 6cetions aside, the hotograhs of some very !arge grous of hea!thy!oo+ing

inmates, -ubi!ant at being freed, wi!! be hidden away. It wi!! not be revea!ed that, in these cams, there

cou!d we!! e6ist for the benefit or use of the inmates, as was the case at uschwit?, vast +itchens and

a!! sorts of sanitary, medica!, denta! or surgica! faci!ities, ba+eries, ost offices, wor+shos, !aces for

artistic or musica! recreation whose mere resence renders im!ausib!e, at the !east, the e6istence of

any intent whatsoever on the art of the Germans to e6terminate those inmates.


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and confiscated effects to distribute some of them to the civi!ian ou!ation ravaged by the bombings

and derived of everything.

%asn&t it at 2ergen32elsen that +nne Frank and her sister 'argot died$

es, in !ate February or ear!y March of %KJ. #hey died of tyhus. 0ti!! !ong after the war the officia!

truth had it that that they*d been gassed at uschwit?, a cam where they effective!y sent some time

before their transfer to AergenAe!sen. #heir fate ma+es them deserving of ity. Aut a good dea! more

itiab!e sti!! was the fate of the German civi!ian ou!ations +i!!ed or burned a!ive by the ng!omerican bomber suadrons. German man had the idea, after the war, to consu!t a boo+ with the

register of those +i!!ed in the bombing of the city of ;r?burg in the night of March 'K, %KJ a!one1 in

that !ist of more than J,((( he noted, I thin+, %' women or gir!s bearing the 4hristian name nne or a

c!ose!y associated one. #here*s hard!y much ta!+ of those women or gir!s systematica!!y +i!!ed so!e!y

for being German, is thereD

Do you think that the /ational -ocialist regime committed crimes against the 5uropean 6ews$

#hat regime did not ursue, with regard to the Cews, any crimina! o!icy. #hat said, some crimes were

indeed committed, esecia!!y in wartime, and they were what are genera!!y ca!!ed 2e6cesses3. 4rimes

of this +ind were either against Cews as individua!s or against Cews ta+en in grous, for instance, in

the course of a mi!itary oeration or indeed during rerisa!s. 0ti!!, if one !oo+s c!ose!y, nothing shou!ddistinguish those crimes from the odious acts that the victors eretrated against, for e6am!e,

Germans or Caanese. I am now going to insist on a fact that*s imortant and that even the revisionists

don*t e6!oit enough. ;e have roof, we*ve had it ever since the Nuremberg tria!, that so!diers, officers

and functionaries, tried by the mi!itary tribuna!s or courts martia! of the #hird Reich, were, during the

war, sentenced to death and e6ecuted for the murder of a sing!e Cewish man or woman.


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%here did you live$

First, u unti! Cu!y %K&, in Marsei!!e, then in Paris. Never ever cou!d someone, catching sight of a

Cew, have ic+ed u a weaon and +i!!ed him with imunity. #he conseuences for the murderer wou!d

have been e6treme!y grave.

It so haens that, since %J, I*ve !ived in 9ichy.


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1ou talk there of France, of 7ermany, but if one goes further eastward, it&s Poland, the

7eneralgouvernement, and then, in regard to that country and )ussia, the 85insat0grupen9 have to be

discussed. %hat do you say here$

It*s above a!! in Russia that those o!ice units oerated. #he war in the ast was a savage one. #he

0oviet 0tate had not signed on to the Geneva and Hague conventions and the Germans found

themse!ves u against a artisan war. t the 0oviet end there were no rights, no !aw. #hus cou!d the

Germans, when there*d been a grou of artisans in a vi!!age, be !ed to destroy everything in it, even if

there were women and chi!dren. German so!diers* safety was the aramount concern. ;ith Germany

at war, what German wife, what father or mother wou!d have agreed that a husband or son shou!d be

!iab!e to be +i!!ed by an individua! in civi!ian dress shooting from behind, then s!iing awayD In such

moments there inevitab!y came about instances of mi!itary savagery, acts as are dis!ayed in simi!ar

circumstances by a!! the armies of the wor!d.

4oming bac+ to my ersona! e6erience in France, I was ab!e to see at wor+ first the French so!dier,

then the German so!dier, the Ita!ian so!dier, and, fina!!y, the 4anadian so!dier, the Aritish so!dier and

the merican so!dier. I, who, during the war, was so antiGerman, must admit that I on!y ever saw

e6treme!y correct Germans1 I can even mention some start!ing cases. ;hen, afterwards, I saw the

mericans arrive, I thought it was wonderfu!. 0ure enough, many of them were !i+eab!e and we!!

behaved but there were a!so, amongst the merican so!diers, N4


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risoners that one had the right, in effect, to e6ecute in contravention of the !aws of war. !so, as

you*re erhas aware, the German mi!itary commanders did not want to act !i+e the Red rmy and, in

the end, refused to fo!!ow through with the harshest rovisions of the orders in uestion.

s for Aabi ar, no materia! investigation of the tye carried out at Batyn during the war has been

made there1 nothing has surfaced to suort the accounts genera!!y heard on the sub-ect, which seem

im!ausib!e. I*!! come bac+ to Aabi ar.

1ou wanted to add something about that town in the :kraine, 'arinka.es, but first, at ris+ of surrising you, I give you notice that for a brief moment we*re going to !eave the

rea!m of history for that of fiction. Here is the drama that I imagine.

#he German mayor of Marin+a, recent!y sentenced to death for +i!!ing a Cewish woman, is going to be

shot by firing suad. He is in a rison ce!! awaiting e6ecution. It is night. He is in the throes of death.

Cust now, a man aears at the ce!! door and addresses him as fo!!ows8 2ou are a German whom

German so!diers, in a short whi!e, are going to shoot because you*ve +i!!ed a Cewess. However, be

advised that, in a few years* time, Germany wi!! have been f!attened. Her conuerors wi!! rove

ruth!ess. #hey*!! ma+e a c!ean swee of everything you*ve !earnt and be!ieved. #hey*!! ma+e u a !ie

ridden history of this war. #hey*!! imose the winners* version. #his new officia! historica! truth, forced

uon Germany and roagated near!y everywhere e!se in the wor!d as we!!, wi!! be that, during thiswar, Germans had every !icence to do what you*ve done. es, its romoters wi!! go so far as to c!aim

that the Germans sent the better art of their time hunting down, torturing and s!aughtering the Cews.

#hey*!! state that Hit!er had given the order to murder a!! the uroean Cews. #hey*!! add that, in order

to succeed in a tas+ of such co!ossa! roortions, he*d had weaons of mass destruction bui!t,

weaons so diabo!ica! that after the war not a trace wi!! be found of them. #e!evision sets, sti!! so rare

today in %K', wi!! be in every home1 morning, noon, afternoon, evening and night, year in year out,

they*!! be sreading this universa! neotruth that wi!! be taught in the rimary and secondary schoo!s,

the universities and even in the catechism, to your chi!dren, grandchi!dren and greatgrandchi!dren.

bit everywhere monuments wi!! be ut u and ceremonies instituted in honour of the new re!igion. #he

few who dare to disute this dogma wi!! be ta+en to court, thrown into rison, out!awed from society.

nd do you +now who the most fervent aost!es of this new creed wi!! be, a creed of what wi!! beca!!ed the Ho!ocaust of the Cews*D $on*t go searching It wi!! be the Germans themse!ves. In the very

firing suad that*s going to shoot you there are erhas some men who*!! survive the war and who,

once they*ve got bac+ home, wi!! start be!ieving the !ie of the Ho!ocaust*. In any case, their chi!dren,

their grandchi!dren and their greatgrandchi!dren wi!! be!ieve it.3 #he mayor of Marin+a wi!! receive this

message as an overwhe!ming shoc+. Indeed, he*!! go out of his mind as a resu!t, and it*s a madman

that they*!! be !eading to the sta+e.

-uch is the tragedy I imagine. I see in it the story line of a stage play or film to be made. This tragedy

is that of 7ermany, whose very soul has been harried to death with the 8Holocaust9.

Eet*s !eave fiction and come bac+ to history. I*d !i+e to dwe!! a !itt!e on the case of Aabi ar. 4urrent!y,

certain Cewish organisations, sensing that the myth of the gas chambers is ta+ing in water a!! around,

are trying a diversion, as+ing us to turn our attention away from the a!!eged gas chambers and gas

vans and towards the 2insat?gruen3. #his is, for e6am!e, what a French Cewish ersona!ity !i+e

Cacues tta!i has recent!y done in writing 2#he vast ma-ority of Cews s!ain were +i!!ed by the individua!

weaons of German so!diers and o!icemen, between %K( and %K', and not by the deathwor+s

that were ut into !ace afterwards3. m!oying a brand new hrase, these Cews ca!! this the 20hoah

by bu!!ets3 #his 20hoah by bu!!ets3 is now summoned to re!ace the 20hoah by gas3.

nd so it is that we*re being served u again with the 2Aabi ar massacre3. t the Nuremberg tria!, the

!ace name 2Aabi ar3 7in fact, the name of a ravine outside Biev: didn*t come u, but a certain

document sim!y reorted, in one sentence, that the Germans in Biev, which they*d recent!y ta+en,

had, fo!!owing a sate of arson attac+s b!amed on NB9$ agents, arrested, in a rerisa! measure, a!!the city*s Cews, then, on the 'th and &(th of 0etember %K%, had aarent!y transorted a number

of them in the direction of the !oca!ity +nown as Aabi ar to e6ecute, in the end L ta+e note of this

9


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figure8 marve! at the recision L no fewer than &&,% #he document is neither dated nor signed. It*s

one of a set se!ected by a !ieutenant ;a!ter Rothschi!d of Eondon. In itse!f, what this sentence re!ates

is im!ausib!e. #he rea! massacre of Batyn, eretrated by the NB9$ and !ater imuted to the

Germans, had !eft about K,K(( men L forma!!y attested L dead, in over two months 7Marchri!

%K(:. Ay comarison, in the Aabi ar massacre there wou!d thus, in two days, have been near!y eight

times more victims than at Batyn in two months. 0uch a fantastic butchery wou!d have !eft count!ess

traces and the surroundings themse!ves wou!d have been turned uside down, if on!y by the efforts

made in the forbidding tas+ of mass buria!, and then, as some wi!! te!! us, of unearthing fo!!owed byoenair cremations. However, the aeria! hotograhs of the time show no signs of any such thing and

no materia! evidence of this huge crime is avai!ab!e. #hese days, in the /+raine, there*s a Roman

4atho!ic riest who*s been getting a !ot of attention, father Patric+ $esbois, a Frenchman and great

friend of the Cews. His secia!ity consists in trave!!ing the !ength and breadth of the !and in search of

2mass Cewish graves3. He has the good /+rainian easants of a given area informed that he*!! soon be

ca!!ing at such or such !oca!e and that he intends to garner testimonies about the s!aughters of Cews

by the Germans during the war. It*s who!!y in the inhabitants* interest to be ab!e to boast that the

environs actua!!y ossess such mass graves over which, afterwards, may be erected monuments that

may in turn attract the odd foreign tourist. #he 2witnesses3 get together and reare a story. #he riest

then ays his visit and has his hotograh ta+en with the countryfo!+ as they oint towards some sot

or other. !ura!@ and $issection >singu!ar@3 to see that there is no such rohibition

at a!!. Q@ to accord the roer resect for the dead in accordance with

Cewish !aw, heritage and tradition3. s at uschwit?, tourism wi!! stand some chance of thriving.

;ne s@3. Here, on the

s+etches of coffins, an anonymous hand has written figures suosed!y reresenting the tota!s of

Cews s!ain. #here*s no indication of any sources that might ma+e ossib!e a verification of the figures*

origins.

Have you noted how each time a common grave is discovered in )ussia and trouble is taken to make

an eamination it&s found that it contains victims of -talin and not of Hitler$

Fina!!y, it*s a good idea, in any case, to be circumsect as concerns the eva!uations sent by mi!itary

men to sueriors in Aer!in.

10


11/23

;ne might say that, caught up in the war, the 7ermans who had to send reports to 2erlin hadn&t the

leisure to draw up, as in peacetime, impeccable reports with all the necessary signatures on them.

#hat*s mere!y a hyothesis on your art, for count!ess German documents of that era show they

remained uite meticu!ous indeed.

+ hypothesis, so be it, but isn&t it asking a bit too much, insisting on perfect evidence, which perhaps

has never eisted$

;hen there is no evidence to hand, one refrains from ma+ing accusations.


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screen, nothing but innocuous bui!dings have been shown, and that it*s !aughab!e to write, again u on

the screen, that those structures house weaons of mass destruction.3 It*s uite recise!y the same

utu -ob that in % Arugioni and Poirier, those e64I men, went in for when, showing us

crematoria, they resumed to te!! us those bui!dings housed weaons of mass destruction ca!!ed 2gas

chambers3. 0ame sort of inscritions, same crude !ies.

To pick up on a


13/23

s a rinci!e I*!! agree readi!y enough1 but see how, in ractice, it*s a!most a!ways, at the end of any

war, the !oser that this -ustice finds gui!ty. It*s a revo!ting sectac!e, this hunting arty of rosecutors

and -udges in b!ac+ robes, a!! groued around so!diers crushed by defeat who now see their

conuerors arading about in a courtroom. #he merican army, a!though the b!oodiest of a!! armies,

never has any e6!aining to do before the internationa! community. #o come bac+ to the 0econd ;or!d

;ar, how can one a!!ow that those who made a!!iance with 0ta!in shou!d be ab!e to address the !east

rebu+e to those who made a!!iance with Hit!erD Eet*s suose, ta+ing u the usua! comarison, that

0ta!in was the !ague and Hit!er, cho!era1 I don*t see how those who have, in rea!ity, chosen the!ague, can find fau!t with others for having, in rea!ity, chosen cho!era. ;hat right had the French

genera! Eec!erc, who was more or !ess in merican uniform, on May , %KJ, when Germany had

surrendered, to have a grou of twe!ve or thirteen risoners ta+en out of a hosita! and shot without

tria! -ust for being in a more or !ess German uniformD Eet*s oint out that it was main!y from horror or

fear of 0ovietsty!e communism that so many young Frenchmen had signed u with either the Mi!ice

or the German army.

Do you =ustify the nature of the reprisals carried out by the 7erman army in France$

Eet*s ta!+ about the bomb attac+s and assassinations in France against the German occuation forces

or French artisans of 4o!!aboration. !arge number of Germans died or were in-ured as a resu!t of

such attac+s. #here were a!so many acts of destruction against the means of transort andcommunication L for e6am!e te!ehone cab!es L , army barrac+s and deots, cro harvests1 there

were weaons traffic+ing oerations, esionage for the !!ies, aid to deserters, escae networ+s, there

was the 4ommunist roaganda ca!!ing for ever more bomb and snier attac+s. ;hat cou!d the

German army officers in charge doD t first they had either the cu!rits themse!ves or hostages shot by

firing suad. #hen, they rea!ised that the French ou!ation, on the who!e, both strong!y disaroved

of the murders of German so!diers and fe!t considerab!e indignation at the rerisa!s made by the

occuation forces. #he Germans ris+ed a!ienating this ou!ation. #hus, from a certain oint, they

referred, in numerous instances, to a!y deortation instead of e6ecution. #owards the end, what

with the big increase in R=sistance attac+s in the wa+e of the !!ied !andings in Normandy, they turned

again to shootings, carrying out a !arge number of them. In France, the tota! number of ersons shot

by sentence of a German mi!itary tribuna! or court martia! seems to be situated, for the entire duration

of the war, between K,J'( and K,JK(, and not, as was stated at the Nuremberg tria!, at ',))(. #he

4ommunists have !ong endorsed far greater figures8 they haven*t shrun+ from resenting their arty as

2the Party of the J,((( firing suad victims31 for his art, 4ommunist chief Maurice #hore? dared to

te!! 0ta!in, on November %, %K8 2In France during the war, &J(,((( 4ommunists were shot by the

Germans3 7in the review 4ommunisme, summer %), . K:. In France, the number of 4ommunists

shot by firing suad was, in rea!ity, a few hundred. ;hen, in %KJ, French troos occuied their art of

Germany, they didn*t find themse!ves confronted with any armed, organised resistance bent on +i!!ing

French so!diers.


14/23

Nuremberg #ribuna! decide that such or such a fact is of 2common +now!edge3 whi!e some other fact

isn*tD #he answer is it*s the #ribuna! that, without giving its reasons, arbitrari!y ronounces that such or

such a fact is of 2common +now!edge3, and grants itse!f ermission to ma+e its assessments in this

regard without adducing any re!evant evidence. Preemtive!y, from the very start it forbids anyone to

remind it that in roer -ustice a!! must be roved. s there e6ists no instance of aea!, here we have

a court that grants itse!f fu!! ower to vio!ate the duties of the -udge. It*s in the secrecy of their

de!iberations, without consu!ting anyone, that these -udges choose such or such a 2fact3 and decree

that it need not be roved. #he rocedure is a cynica! one.

In regard to revisionism, I*ve had dea!ings with eo!e of the -udiciary in France, ng!and, Germany,

ustria, 0wit?er!and and ng!ishsea+ing 4anada. I de!ight in hearing them a!! use a com!icated and

retentious !anguage to e6ress the sim!est and c!umsiest ideas. 0o it was that at Nuremberg the

-udges, at bottom, decreed8 2It*s !i+e this because this is how it is3, or e!se8 2#his is how it is because

we*ve decided that it shou!d be so3. Aut rtic!e '% of that strange #ribuna!*s 4harter has an even

bigger surrise in store for us in its ne6t sentence, and here the very ea+ of cynicism is attained.

Eisten to this8 2>#he #ribuna!@ sha!! a!so ta+e -udicia! notice of officia! governmenta! documents and

reorts of the /nited Nations, inc!uding the acts and documents of the committees set u in the

various a!!ied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and of records and findings of mi!itary or

other #ribuna!s of any of the /nited Nations3, that is, any of the 0tates that haen to be the dec!ared

enemies of the accused. Here*s what amounts to saying8 2


15/23


16/23

we!comed us each evening as we returned from court. I for my art remember coming out with this8

2;e*re entering a new eoch. From now on, whenever I need the sa!t and eer or the water itcher,

I*!! no !onger even have to say so. ;e*!! use the incredib!e meeting of minds* and consensusmind

reading*. fter a!!, if the German bureaucrats, reuted!y the most thic+headed of a!!, ractised that

system, why shou!d we do without itD3

In the new edition of his wor+, which was at ress at the very moment the tria! was going on, Hi!berg

didn*t use those stuefying hrases but he did resort to their euiva!ents in convo!uted and academic

form, writing8 2In the fina! ana!ysis, the destruction of the Cews was not so much a roduct of !aws and

commands as it was a matter of sirit, of shared comrehension, of consonance and synchroni?ation3.

nd a!! that, he secifies, without !eaving any written trace

'r Faurisson, according to you, how many 6ews died, all told, during the -econd %orld %ar due to

actions of the 7ermans$ How many, amongst those, in the concentration camps$ In which camps,

eactly$ How many through the use of gas chambers or gas vans$

No Cew was +i!!ed in any e6ecution gas chamber or gas van. Here it*s a uestion of weaons of mass

destruction of which no trace has ever been found and of which no one has been ab!e to rovide a

technica! descrition. #here is no ossibi!ity that the a!!eged gas chambers shown, here and there, to

tourists can ever have been actua! gas chambers. I sha!! not here be returning to that sub-ect, with

which I have so often dea!t, and I note that the oosing side stubborn!y ersist in their refusa! to

rovide us with a technica! and scientific study of the resumed crime weaon. s for the tota! number

of Cews of uroe who died during the war due to actions of the Germans, that*s not yet ossib!e to

determine, and this is so, to a !arge e6tent, because of the scanda!ous conduct of the wartime !!ies

and the 0tate of Israe!, who stand c!ose guard over the enormous mass of archives stored in

Germany, at Aad ro!sen, by the Internationa! #racing 0ervice 7I#0:. From time to time, it*s heard that

these archives are at !ast going to be oened to researchers. Cewish or 5ionist organisations c!aim to

demand such an oening. $on*t be!ieve any of it. I*ve devoted uite a !ot of attention to the matter and

can te!! you that, if those archives were com!ete!y oened u to a!! researchers without restriction, it

wou!d se!! catastrohe for the uho!ders of the 2Ho!ocaust3 argument. It wou!d be revea!ed how

carefu!!y the #hird Reich authorities recorded data about every cam detainee*s L Cewish or nonCewish L arriva!, dearture, hosita!isations if any, successive -obs, transfers from one cam to

another and, in the event, decease. nd then there*d be access to the recise number of cremations

done at each crematorium as we!! as the number of Cewish 2survivors3, that is of those mi!!ions of

miracu!ous!y sared inmates who, after the war, sread throughout the wor!d, many of them forming

the origina! ou!ation of the 0tate of Israe!. In the !ate %(s revisionists began getting interested in

those archives8 at the time there e6isted, on the remises of the I#0, a 2historica! section3 7Historische

+bteilung:. In % the authorities sudden!y c!osed it. For my art, I as+ that it be reoened, with

ermission given to a!! researchers to consu!t the tota!ity of the materia!.

Aut you*ve -ust as+ed about the number of Cews who died due to actions of the Germans. No one, for

the time being, is ab!e to say. #o begin with, it wou!d be necessary to set aart those who died of

natura! causes from those who died as a conseuence of actions on the art of either the Germans or

the !!ies. Ae that as it may, I have observations to ma+e on the considerab!e number of Cews who

survived the war and who are in themse!ves as many c!ues to suggest that there cannot have been a

o!icy of +i!!ing a!! the Cews. In the Israe!i dai!y Haaret? of ri! %, '((K, corresondent miram

Aar+at had an artic!e entit!ed 2/.0. court to discuss uestion of who is a Ho!ocaust survivor31 it to!d of

how two Cewish demograhics e6erts who*d had the -ob of rec+oning the number of Cewish survivors

sti!! a!ive in '((K had arrived, resective!y, at the figures of ),(( and %,(',(((. #he difference is

e6!ained by the second e6ert*s inc!usion of the Cewish ou!ation of North frica, 0yria and

Eebanon, territories occuied for a certain time either by the Germans and Ita!ians or by the forces of

the 9ichy government. I*!! refer here therefore on!y to the !ower figure and oint out that ),((

uroean Cews having e6erienced the German occuation and sti!! a!ive near!y si6ty years on im!ythat, -ust after the war, the number of Cewish survivors must necessari!y have amounted to severa!

mi!!ion 7robab!y &,'J(,(((:. ;hat sort of a!!eged e6termination o!icy can there have been if mi!!ions

of survivors or miracu!ous!y sared targets were !eft a!ive in its wa+eD t that eriod, uroeans were

16


17/23

ama?ed at the inf!u6 to their countries of Cews who, they*d been to!d, had disaeared forever. #he

cams for dis!aced ersons were fu!! of them. ;e have at our disosa! a great many hotograhs

showing, in articu!ar, Cewish youngsters arriving by train from 4entra! uroe or housed in count!ess

chi!dren*s homes. #heir hysica! aearance was identica! to that of chi!dren of nonCewish

ou!ations of the time. s far as France is concerned, we +now that, of a Cewish ou!ation of about

&J(,(((, around J,(( Cews, foreigners for the most art, were deorted, but we*re not to!d how

many survived. #he figure we*re sometimes given L ',J(( out of J,'% L resu!ts from numerous

tric+s that I haven*t the time to !ist right now but I*ve e6!ained them e!sewhere. If you want an idea ofhow !arge and !ive!y the French Cewish community was on the morrow of the war I recommend you

!oo+ in a certain yearboo+ entit!ed E*nnuaire du -udaSsme. #he %J' edition describes, in K%J ages,

the situation of French and wor!d Cewry. Ae!ieve me, it*s instructive. Ay itse!f, the number of Cewish

associations !isted, with te!ehone numbers and addresses, is staggering. nd beho!d the f!ood today

of boo+s, memoirs, testimonies of 2miracu!ous3 Cewish survivors, not to mention the a!ications for

indemnity or comensation.

2ut in 7ermany they never


18/23

1ou mention physicians at +uschwit0. %hat have you to say on the sub=ect of Dr 'engele$

I*ve !oo+ed into his case. I don*t be!ieve I*m wrong in stating that Cosef Menge!e was robab!y one of

the most s!andered men of his era. In a!! !i+e!ihood, he deserved the reutation, which he had amongst

his fe!!ow citi?ens of Gn?burg, of 2ein Bava!ier3. I*ve had a !oo+ through his manuscrits

7unub!ished:, which show a man steeed in GrecoRoman cu!ture, very +een on science and curious

about everything. He didn*t hide it from his c!ose acuaintances that the gassing stories were ure

invention. $uring a osthumous showtria! of Menge!e he!d in Cerusa!em before the wor!d*s te!evision

cameras, his 2victims3 came forth to imute the worst atrocities to him8 according to them, he used to

in gougedout human eyeba!!s on the wa!!s of his office, or our acid into the eyes of his 2guinea

igs3 to see whether it made them turn from b!ac+ to b!ue. #here*s hard!y a c!ass of things, rea! or

imagined, that !ends itse!f as readi!y to nonsensica! -abber as that of medica! monstrosities, esecia!!y

when they can be b!amed on a whitecoated 2Herr $o+tor3. Here it*s easy to have the !ayman be!ieve

any atrocity story at a!!.


19/23

#hat*s uite correct, but it*s sti!! hard to rec+on the number of those Cews who sett!ed, for e6am!e, in

/?be+istan 7#ash+ent, 0amar+and:, #a-i+istan or e!sewhere, erhas even in the Cewish autonomous

region of Airobi-an.

How do you account for the fact that almost all the former concentration camp inmates state they can

attest to the reality of the gas chambers there$

#hey*re reeating a rumour that a!!ows them to grant themse!ves, with no inconvenience, the status ofheroes or miracu!ous survivors. #hey genera!!y do so ris+free since there*s very !itt!e chance that

anyone wi!! ut their bac+s to the wa!! and as+ for e6!anations. $uring one of my tria!s, a suer

e6cited Cew came u to me at the courtroom entrance shouting and showing me his uschwit?

registration tattoo. 2How dare you say the gas chambers didn*t e6istD3, he said. 2I*m a witness to their

e6istence.3 I !oo+ed him in the eye and to!d him8 2$escribe a gas chamber for me.3 Eosing his

comosure, he answered8 2If I*d seen one I wou!dn*t be here to ta!+ to you about it.3 I then ointed out

that, !i+e a!! the Cews who*d returned from uschwit?, he was rather a witness to there never having

been a o!icy amongst the Germans of hysica!!y e6terminating the Cews, since there he was, very

much a!ive. I*!! remind you that in %J at the first 5nde! tria!, in #oronto, we had the rare chance to

crosse6amine the Number


20/23

82ut nor have I left any doubt that if the nations of 5urope are once more to be treated only as

collections of stocks and shares of these international conspirators in money and finance, then those

who carry the real guilt for the murderous struggle, this people will also be held responsible> the 6ews

Cdas 6udentum I have further left no one in doubt that this time it will not be only millions of children

of 5uropeans of the +ryan peoples who will starve to death, not only millions of grown men who will

suffer death, and not only hundreds of thousands of women and children who will be burned and

bombed to death in the cities, without those who are really responsible also having to atone for their

crime, even if by more humane means Cwenn auch durch humanere 'ittel9.

2y 8more humane means9 didn&t Hitler mean 8the gas chambers9$

Pure secu!ation Hit!er signed that te6t on ri! ', %KJ, that is the eve of his suicide 7!et*s note in

assing that, according to the 9u!gate, the 2gas chambers3 had no !onger been oerating since !ate

November %KK:. He had before him the aa!!ing sectac!e of a country !aid to waste and its men,

women and chi!dren being systematica!!y torched with hoshorous. He romises those behind this

inhuman war that they*!! have to atone for their crime but not, a!! the same, through the horrib!e and

barbarous means that the !!ies were using. #he innac!e of horror is to go and burn eo!e a!ive. It

was the Aritish !eaders, 4hurchi!! at their head, who, as of %K(%K%, decided that from then on war

wou!d be waged systematica!!y on the German civi!ians and who, to that urose, undertoo+ the

roduction of heavy bomber aircraft designed to destroy the German cities. /nti! then, mi!itary menstrict!y !imited themse!ves to ma+ing war against other mi!itary men and, when they did haen to +i!!

civi!ians, they ut the case, right!y or wrong!y, that it was as a conseuence L a regrettab!e one L of

mi!itary action 7for e6am!e, during a tactica! bombardment:. #he Aritish gent!emen were innovators in

the art of war8 on the one hand, they e!ected to s!aughter German civi!ians systematica!!y in order to

ma+e the oosing mi!itary !eaders give in and, on the other hand, they went about stirring u and

maintaining the cowards* war, that of sniers or 2R=sistants3, against German so!diers. #here might

have been some courage in b!owing onese!f u with a bomb to +i!! some of the enemy in the rocess

but there was hard!y any in the snier who acted under cover and then f!ed the scene, thus witting!y

setting off b!oody rerisa!s against numerous innocent eo!e. 0oviet savagery and merican bruta!ity

then -oined in. From Hit!er*s oint of view, the unnatura! a!!iance of the 4ity*s and ;a!! 0treet*s

caita!ism with Muscovite 4ommunism had been sea!ed in the de!iberate ho!ocaust of the German

eo!e1 the r+ of the 4ovenant between those two oosites united the Cews of the who!e wor!d, so

owerfu! and inf!uentia! articu!ar!y in the financia! sheres of the ng!ishsea+ing countries, in the

media and in the internationa! 4ommunist movement. #he German historian rnst No!te had a!ready

offered me that argument of the 2more humane means3 being evidence of the gas chambers*

e6istence. It goes to show how destitute of rea! evidence such historians are.

Doesn&t the report of the 2erlin3%annsee conference prove the eistence of a plan to eterminate the

6ews$

Not in the !east. /ndated, unsigned, bearing no stam of any bureau, this iece has the !oo+ of a draft

reort te!!ing of a meeting he!d on Canuary '(, %K' in the Aer!in suburbs. Nowhere is it a uestion of

+i!!ing or e6terminating the Cews but, for those Cews ab!e to wor+, of evacuation eastwards for them to

be ut to wor+, whi!st those aged )J and over were to be sent to #heresienstadt, in Aohemia. #here

aears severa! times in this document the e6ression 2fina! so!ution of the Cewish uestion in

uroe3, which is sometimes shortened to 2fina! so!ution of the Cewish uestion3 or to 2fina! so!ution3 or

even, uite sim!y, to 2so!ution3. #he origina! hrase, in its com!ete form, was 2a fina! territoria!

so!ution of the Cewish uestion3 7understood8 the Cewish uestion in uroe:. certain Martin Euther,

undersecretary of 0tate in the German foreign office, em!oyed that hrase on age K of his famous

memorandum of ugust '%, %K'. #hat ad-ective 2territoria!3 means that the uestion wi!! have to be

sett!ed by finding the Cews a territory of their own1 any other so!ution wou!d be inadeuate. For if, for

e6am!e, after the war, the Cews became free again in uroe, they wou!d soon, as history shows,

manage to regain their ower and inf!uence there1 whereas, in the event of a transfer for goodsomewhere outside uroe, those who*d survived the hardshis entai!ed wou!d ma+e u an e!ite

caab!e of forming the germina! ce!! of a Cewish renewa!. It*s si!!y to ta!+ here of an e6termination

ro-ect. ven ehuda Aauer, rofessor at Hebrew /niversity in Cerusa!em, ended u, in %',

20


21/23

denouncing 2the si!!y story of ;annsee3. He stated8 2#he ub!ic sti!! reeats, time after time, the si!!y

story that at ;annsee the e6termination of the Cews was arrived at3.

-ome claim that the number of 6ews killed by the 7ermans doesn&t matter. %hether it&s a


22/23

chi!dren. I wish to see us a!! entit!ed to write about him -ust as we*re a!!owed to do with Nao!eon,

4hurchi!! or 0ta!in.

Have you a word to say in conclusion$

My conc!usion is that we are here in #ehran the day after a conference, he!d on $ecember %%th and

%'th of '((), dea!ing with 2the Ho!ocaust3. #hat conference was tru!y internationa!. ;e*d have !i+ed to

see and hear Rau! Hi!berg and Norman Fin+e!stein. #he !atter says the revisionists are 2crac+ots3,

!unatics. If he*d come here, I*d have as+ed him uite o!ite!y in what resect I ersona!!y deserved thateithet, and I*d a!so have inuired as to what writings of ours he might in fact have read before

ronouncing such a -udgment on revisionist authors. #he conference ended with the forming of a

2Ho!ocaust3 research grou, with an Iranian, $r Ramin, as its resident and, rovisiona!!y, five

members8 an ustra!ian, a Ariton, a $ane, a Frenchman and a 0wiss. #he year '(() wi!! go down in

history, not -ust the history of Iran but that of the who!e wor!d as we!!. Iran, this ama?ing country, wi!!

have had the heroism, in one and the same year, to say no, first to merican imeria!ism, then to the

2Ho!ocaust3 crusaders. I won*t hide it from you that this heroism scares me. Perhas President

hmadine-ad wi!! in future have to ay dear!y for his temerity.

%ere you able to have a word with him$

es, we ta!+ed for a few minutes face to face, amidst a !ot of other conference articiants. Ie6ressed my admiration for his courage, a!ong with our gratitude for this astonishing seminar, oen to

a!!, revisionists and nonrevisionists a!i+e. #o me, the one whom the wor!d ress deicts as a

dangerous fanatic aeared, both in his c!osing seech and in our brief conversation, to be a man of

refined sirit, sincere and softso+en. nd besides, you +now he*s never said that the 0tate of Israe!

must be 2wied off the ma3, but he has thought it enough to adot a hrase of the !ate yato!!ah

Bhomeini, in whose view the 5ionist 0tate wou!d one day be erased from the chart of time and history.

He*s e6ressed the oinion that in the Midd!e ast 5ionism is bound to disaear -ust as 4ommunism

did in Russia. He wishes to see a!! the communities in Pa!estine, inc!uding the Cewish community, find

their resective !aces one again. Hence that de!egation of si6 rabbis at the conference, wearing a

sort of badge with the message that they were Cews but not 5ionists. s I*ve to!d you, I myse!f

conversed and got on uite we!! with two of those rabbis.


23/23

5nde! and a good number of other Germans or ustrians who either have e6erienced !ong years of

imrisonment or wi!! be imrisoned in future. In 0weden, the eversteadfast hmed Rami has himse!f

a!so tasted rison !ife. nd then we were saved by the Internet. Maybe I*ve been !uc+y. I shou!dn*t say

the same for my wife and chi!dren.

%ill you agree to let this interview be published$

es, on condition that you submit the te6t to me and that, if need be, I may ma+e corrections and

additions, either on my own initiative or at your reuest.Then we&re agreed. I thank you.

$an+e sehr. nd, addressing myse!f to your country, I*!! add8 2rmes $eutsch!and3 >Poor Germany@.

Eeider. >/nfortunate!y@

Eeider.

#H N$

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Interview With Professor Robert Faurisson-Tehran, December 13, 2006

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