Investigations philosophy

Kevin Desprez, L3Florence 2016

INVESTIGATING

WARNING

• Yes, this seminar slides do contain a lot of text.

• Yes, this seminar slides do contain a lot of text.• I know this isn’t recommended.

• Yes, this seminar slides do contain a lot of text.• I know this isn’t recommended.• But not all of you speak fluent English.

• Yes, this seminar slides do contain a lot of text.• I know this isn’t recommended.• But not all of you speak fluent English.• So at least you can read even if you can’t

understand me.

• Yes, this seminar slides do contain a lot of text.• I know this isn’t recommended.• But not all of you speak fluent English.• So at least you can read even if you can’t

understand me.• Because even if I’m aware that I should talk

slowly, sometimes I forget.

And I want you to take the most out of this☺

FJ and HJ: Two very different roles


• FJs identify issues and report them.


• FJs identify issues and report them.• HJs investigate and make decisions.



• Without the great work of a FJ, a HJ wouldn’t get to know there is something to investigate.




• HJs investigate, but FJs pre-investigate.




• HJs investigate, but FJs pre-investigate.• We both play an essential role in the Investigation

The FJ’s first actions


• Identify the situationSimple Rules question or premise of a complicated investigation?



• Understand the situationDo players agree with each other, is it confrontational?




• If players disagree with each other, separate them and talk to them one after the other




•If players disagree with each other, separate them and talk to them one after the otherThis ensures the 2nd player cannot take advantage of the 1st player’s story




• If players disagree with each other, separate them and talk to them one after the otherThis ensures the 2nd player cannot take advantage of the 1st player’s storyIn private, players are keener on discussing strategics

You should be paranoid… not complicated


• You must look so that you can touch– Understand the game state (Illegal block, PT ATL)



• I don’t think players like that much– Know who’s up a game (Stalling, GP ATL)




• Heaven knows what players can do– Know who’s up a match (Stalling, PT ATL)




• Heaven knows what players can do– Know who’s up a match (Stalling, PT ATL)

• Heaven knows what you’ve got to prove

You must look so that you can touchI don’t think players like that muchHeaven knows what players can do

Heaven knows what you’ve got to prove

The FJ’s Goals

The FJ’s Goals

• Gather facts or players’ initial claimsThis is the closest-to-truth story you’ll ever get

The FJ’s Goals


• Get a committing statement from players Something that the HJ will be able to build their investigation from

The FJ’s Goals


• Get a committing statement from players Something that the HJ will be able to build their investigation fromKeep in mind if a player is trying to avoid answering the questions

The FJ’s Goals



• Start with general questionsThe more you let players talk, the more you will learn relevant information

The FJ’s Goals



• Start with general questionsThe more you let players talk, the more you will learn relevant informationPrecise questions are only useful for clarification of grey areas

The FJ’s Goals



• Start with general questionsThe more you let players talk, the more you will learn relevant informationPrecise questions are only useful for clarification of grey areas

• Fetch the HJ (yourself!)Have another judge stay at the table while you get the HJ.

The HJ’s Goals

The HJ’s Goals

• Get the initial picture from the FJ

The HJ’s Goals

• Get the initial picture from the FJ• Listen to both players

The HJ’s Goals

• Get the initial picture from the FJ• Listen to both players• Is it worth investigating?

The HJ’s Goals

• Get the initial picture from the FJ• Listen to both players• Is it worth investigating?• Identifying lying

The HJ’s Goals

• Get the initial picture from the FJ• Listen to both players• Is it worth investigating?• Identifying lying• Evidence VS certainty

The HJ’s Goals

• Get the initial picture from the FJ• Listen to both players• Is it worth investigating?• Identifying lying• Evidence VS certainty• Make a timely decision

The HJ’s Goals

• Get the initial picture from the FJ• Listen to both players• Is it worth investigating?• Identifying lying• Evidence VS certainty• Make a timely decision• Reporting a DQ

Getting the initial picture


• Understand before reaching the tableDon’t do this while walking to the table


• Understand before reaching the tableDon’t do this while walking to the table– Harder to listen to each other in a room


• Understand before reaching the tableDon’t do this while walking to the table– Harder to listen to each other in a room– Feeling of a « deadline » and some elements can be missed



• Mandatory elements to gather from the FJ:



• Mandatory elements to gather from the FJ:– What happened? (Facts)



• Mandatory elements to gather from the FJ:– What happened? (Facts)– Do players agree? If they don’t, what do they disagree on?



• Mandatory elements to gather from the FJ:– What happened? (Facts)– Do players agree? If they don’t, what do they disagree on?– What does the FJ think?

(Subjective impression based on the pre-investigation)

Listening to players


• If both players agree on facts, summarize them to confirm the issue.



• If they disagree, or are not sure they agree, separate them (again?)



• If they disagree, or are not sure they agree, separate them (again?)(This prevents a player from adjusting their story based on the other’s)




• Let them both tell you their side of the story(If you listen to both, they can’t say you’re biased – Life totals, GP PIT 2011)




• Let them both tell you their side of the story(If you listen to both, they can’t say you’re biased – Life totals, GP PIT 2011)

• Have the FJ with you to highlight any discrepancy in a player’s story.

Are they Cheating?

Are they Cheating?

• It is Cheating if an infraction was committed:

Are they Cheating?

• It is Cheating if an infraction was committed:a. Intentionally

Are they Cheating?

• It is Cheating if an infraction was committed:a. Intentionallyb. Knowingly

Are they Cheating?

• It is Cheating if an infraction was committed:a. Intentionallyb. Knowinglyc. To gain an advantage

Are they Cheating?


• Players don’t do illegal things for no advantage

Are they Cheating?


• Players don’t do illegal things for no advantage• Ask yourself: Do they have a reason to cheat?

Are they Cheating?


• Players don’t do illegal things for no advantage• Ask yourself: Do they have a reason to cheat?• If you can’t find which advantage they may

gain from the infraction, they likely did not cheat.

Is it worth investigating?

Is it worth investigating?• If the quest for Truth is very important to the two players

involved, tournament timing matters for all. (GP BOS 2012)



• Do you have the slightest chance to find out what really happened?



• Do you have the slightest chance to find out what really happened?– “I said/He said” situations often can’t be solved with certainty.



• Do you have the slightest chance to find out what really happened?– “I said/He said” situations often can’t be solved with certainty.– The more time passed, the less interesting players’ stories are.



• Do you have the slightest chance to find out what really happened?– “I said/He said” situations often can’t be solved with certainty.– The more time passed, the less interesting players’ stories are.

• If you can’t think of a reasonable approach to gather the elements you’re missing, it’s safer to shorten the investigation and make a decision with the elements you have.

Identifying lying

Identifying lying

• Does one of the players lie?– It’s not because two players disagree that one lies

Identifying lying

• Does one of the players lie?– It’s not because two players disagree that one lies– Both players may be lying, or at least “making a slightly better story”

(Card touching hand, GP LIL 2012)

Identifying lying



• Discrepancies: Helping or misleading?– A player saying different things at different times may be lying.

Identifying lying



• Discrepancies: Helping or misleading?– A player saying different things at different times may be lying.– However, if you ask the same question again and again, players will

naturally try to add details or end up being confused.

Evidences and Feelings


• Very few situations rely on “hard” facts.


• Very few situations rely on “hard” facts.• Evidence or not, you’ll need to make a

decision.– Judging is about making decisions on what’s the most probable.




• Certainty decreases with time as players’ stories will become better




• Certainty decreases with time as players’ stories will become better

• You’ll realistically almost always make a ruling based on your feelings.

Making the decision

Making the decision

• As soon as the investigation stops progressing, it’s time to make a decision (GP LIL12)

Making the decision


– Looping is worse than useless, it’s confusing

Making the decision


– Looping is worse than useless, it’s confusing

• If it’s unclear who’s lying, don’t go with Cheating but make a ruling.

Announcing the decision


• If your conclusions indicate a DQ, talk to the player apart, as this also prevents spectators from putting indirect pressure on you. (GP BRU 2009)


• If your conclusions indicate a DQ, talk to the player apart, as this also prevents spectators from putting indirect pressure on you. (GP BRU 2009)

• If your decision is based on a feeling, mention it to players before making the actual ruling.

Reporting the decision


• Print the DQ FAQ and give it to the player


• Print the DQ FAQ and give it to the player• Encourage the player to write or email a

statement. It can only be beneficial to them.Collect a readable email address




• If they choose to email, take their email address nevertheless





• Enter it in the Judge Center.On-site is better if you can find time.





• Enter it in the Judge Center.On-site is better if you can find time.

• Describe facts AND give your opinion.

Thank you!

Thank you!Questions?

Date post:	13-Apr-2017
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Investigations philosophy

Education