Jeff Foster_Twenty Questions June 2012

8/10/2019 Jeff Foster_Twenty Questions June 2012

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In other words, somebody who thinks they are „enlightened‟, and that youare not, is simply somebody with a belief that they – a separate individual– are „enlightened‟ and you are not. They see themselves and you asseparate. Beyond this, there is no way of knowing that you are

„enlightened‟ – and so there is no enlightenment. The question „are yo uenlightened?‟ becomes totally irrelevant when things are seen clearly. Thequestion simply burns up in the clarity of present seeing.

3.) Somebody who claims to be enlightened still sees themselves asseparate perhaps?

Of course, since there is no other way to see yourself as enlightened! A

self- image, including any „enlightened‟ self -image, is always separate. Itis always part of the dream.

This message is about seeing through the dream of separation. That‟swhy when it comes to this message, there are no authorities, no

„enlightened‟ or „awakened‟ people, no gurus and no disciples. It is theperson, „enlightened‟ or not, that is seen through in the end.

An authority figure is someone who thinks that they know. This messageis all about the not-knowing. And who could be an authority on not-

knowing? Can I know more about not-knowing than you? Can I possessmore nothing than you? Can there be any more Being herethan thereis there? Can there be an authority on life? Or is life itself the onlyauthority?

4. What is enlightenment or awakening? Do those words have anymeaning?

Okay. So let‟s take a fresh look at those words. You see, for me,enlightenment has nothing to do with „somebody‟ becoming „enlightened‟.That‟s the mind talking. That‟s the voice of the seeker.

Awakening has nothing to do with „somebody‟ becoming „awakened‟.That‟s the myth. That‟s the dream – the ultimate dream of the ego, infact.

„Enlightenment‟ is simply a word that points to the en -lightened nature oflife itself. If something is en-lightened, it is in the light. It is lit up. It is



visible. And what can be seen is this: Life itself is already fully visible – itis already fully enlightened, filling all space, appearing as everything,right here and right now.

Open your eyes and the world is simply there. What a miracle! Sights,sounds and smells simply appear. A bird singing. Hunger. Cars whooshingpast. A thought about last night‟s football match. Life simple appears, outof nothing. It appears, and is seen, and life is notseparate from thatseeing. Was there ever anybody here separate from this seeing? Wasthere ever anybody here, separate from life, who could becomeenlightened? Maybe that was part of the dream…

Similarly, „awakening‟ is simply a word that points to the ever -presentawakeness of life itself. Life is not asleep, it is awake. Life is not switchedoff, it is switched on. It is already awake to itself, appearing aseverything. It is already awake to sights, sounds, smells, to colours,textures, movement. To the sound of that bird singing. To presentfeelings in the body. Was there ever anybody here separate from thisever-present awakeness? Was there ever anybody here who couldbecome awakened? Maybe that was part of the dream too…

5.) Could it be said the, that Life Without A Centre is about the discoveryof who I really am?

It is the discovery of what you are – and what you are not! All your lifeyou have taken yourself to be an individual, a separate person. You livewith a story of yourself, a self-image that you attempt to protect anddefend. This story becomes your identity – who you think you are – andyou end up forgetting who you really are, beyond that story.

Thought weaves a story about who you are, based on past experience.

Before you know it, you are a „someone‟ rather than a no -one. You are aperson in a world. You have a past and a future. You try to fit in, toadapt, to make things go the way you want them to, to make your lifework. You build up a list of achievements and failures. You work onyours elf. You try to fix yourself. When asked, you tell your story of „me‟.You listen to stories about other „me‟s‟, and compare and contrast, defendand attack these stories, forgetting that your „me‟ is simply a story, andthat story cannot even begin to describe what you really are.

You start to believe that this „me‟ really exists outside of thought. Youtake it to be so much more than a story. You start to believe that this



„me‟ is who you really are! You defend this illusory story of „me‟, andforget that you are defending nothing more than an image appearing inawareness. This is the origin of all violence and suffering. Violence andsuffering do not begin „out there‟ in the world, they begin with „you‟.

The „me‟ is your personal journey, your life story. It holds everything:Your successes and failures. Your past and future, your memories andprojections. Your beliefs, your judgements, your opinions. Your fears,your regrets, your worries, you‟re seeking. I refer to it all as „the story‟,because that‟s u ltimately what it is, a story, a narrative, a tale, appearingin awareness, appearing in the present moment… and there is only thepresent moment.

Ultimately, your entire past and future are merely thoughts appearing inthe present moment, and that‟s the only reality this personal „you‟ has.The personal „you‟ has no reality outside of presently arising thoughts…

6.) Is there anything wrong with having a story of „me‟?

Well, there is nothing wrong with the story, in itself!

Many people believe that this „individual self‟ is what they are, and they

ignore the space, the openness, the vast ocean of Being in which the „individual‟ arises. They identify exclusively as a „separate person‟ andnever stop to ask if that is what they truly are.

You see, this message points to the possibility that you are not what youthink you are.

You have taken yourself to be a separate wave in a vast ocean. You seeyourself as a little person in a vast ocean full of other people. You seeyourself as an individual in a world which is fundamentally separate from

you.

But of course, the „separate wave‟ in the ocean is not really „separate‟from the ocean at all! The „separate wave‟ is really just the oceanappearing temporarily as a wave.

The wave is actually one-hundred percent wat er. In essence, it‟s thesame as the ocean. And so really there is no „separate wave‟ at all.

There only appears to be a separate wave. The wave is in appearance

only. It is a temporary appearance of the ocean.



You – what you take yourself to be – the pers on, the character, the „me‟,only has existence as an appearance, a story appearing now in boundlessBeing, a story which is ultimately not separate from Being…

7.) Is nonduality all about getting rid of this separate wave? Is it aboutgetting rid of the appearance of the „me‟ and falling back into the ocean?

Perhaps it does sound like I‟m saying that the appearance of the separateperson is a problem and we should get rid of it. But who is going to getrid of the wave? The wave? How can the wave get rid of itself?

This is one of the traps that people fall into when they identify themselvesas being „spiritual seekers‟. They think that they need to get rid of thewave in order to reach the ocean, and there seem to be a lot of spiritualteachers and gurus out there who believe the same thing. Some spiritualteachers implore you to „kill the ego!‟ or „destroy the mind!‟ or „get rid ofthe self!‟ and miss the fact that the attempt to kill the ego is that veryego, and the effort to destroy the mind is the mind , and so on…

The point is, the wave is already fully ocean. Any attempt to get rid of thewave is the wave attempting to get rid of itself.

Years ago, when I was a very serious and intense spiritual seeker, I trieddesperately to get rid of Jeff, the character, the person. But this attemptultimately ended in failure and frustration, because I was trying to get ridof something that wasn‟t actually there! I was fighting an illusion, andwhen you fight an illusion, you are assuming that the illusion is real. Whatyou fight, you give life to. What you resist, persists, as they say.

You don‟t need to get rid of an illusion. To expose the illusion as anillusion is enough. To expose an illusion is to end it.

And so the attempt to destroy the ego, transcend the mind, kill the self,get rid of the „me‟ – in other words, the spiritual search – is really just awar with life. It‟s water fighting water.

Luckily, my spiritual seeking failed. And in that failure, this otherpossibility shone through – a possibility that went beyond seeking andfinding, beyond „me‟ getting what „I‟ wanted, beyond my personal desireto become an enlightened person. Beyond the seeker and the sought,there was – and is – only unconditional love…



Nonduality does not mean „not - duality‟ – that would be completelydualistic! In reality, nonduality includes (the appearance of) duality,because it is everything. It is nothing – no-thing – and it is everything.

Ultimately, nonduality appears as duality. They are one and the same.Then you can‟t even speak of „nonduality‟.

In other words, the appearance of the separate wave is not a problem forthe Ocean. The appearance of your life story is itself a perfect expressionof Being. In this unconditional love, nothing is denied.

And so it was never about getting rid of Jeff. It was always about falling inlove with Jeff, and through him, everything…

8.) How does the experience of being a separate person relateto seeking?

The individual, the separate person, is a seeker. The separate personalways seems to be looking for something more. The gift of this momentnever seems to be enough. They experience lack, and look into the futureto find the end of lack (which is of course, a projection of themselves).

The moment you have an individual, a wave separate from the Ocean,somebody separate from life – you have a seeker.

The moment there is separation, the moment there is two (one „thing‟separate from another „thing‟), you hav e a longing to return to One. Youhave the experience that something is missing.

The moment there is separation, there is a longing to end the separation.

It‟s out of the sense of separation – which manifests in the individual asthe sense that there is something missing in the present moment – thatwe begin to seek. We seek to fill a hole in our lives, to put an end to thesense that we aren‟t quite whole, the sense that we are not quitecomplete. And we look out into the world (in other words, into time andspace) to try and put an end to this sense of lack at the heart of ourexperience.

But no matter how much we achieve in the world, no matter how muchmoney we make, no matter how many spiritual experiences we have, nomatter how „enlightened‟ we get, no matter how many times we meet our

„perfect partner‟ or get the „perfect job‟, we never seem to feel complete.No matter how much we find, the seeking seems to carry on. We get the



new car, the new house, the new job, the new lover, the new guru, thenew s piritual high, and it all satisfies for a while… but then the seekingstarts up again. There always seems to be a longing for something more.We just can‟t seem to shake off the sense that we are incomplete.

But here‟s the problem – the individual, the seeker, is the very sense oflack he seeks to be free from.

How can the individual (separation, lack, seeking) put an end toseparation? This is the dilemma which every seeker faces in the end.

9.) When I feel separate, I seek. How is separation and seeking related toOneness or wholeness?

Well, really the search of a lifetime is the search for wholeness, forOneness, for the end of separation. We think we are looking for money,for power, for wealth, for love, for spiritual experiences, forenlightenment, for liberation, for Nirvana.

What we are actually looking for is wholeness.

You see, if we‟re honest, we don‟t really want material wealth, power,success. We don‟t reallywant to become an „awakened‟ or „enlightened‟person. What we really long for is to end the sense of being a separateperson, to end the sense of being someone over here looking forsomething over there, to end the sense of being a seeker separate fromwhat is sought.

What we really long for is just to come Home. To finally come Home towhat we are. To finally see life for what it really is, beyond our conceptsabout what it is.

The seeking can become so exhausting. The fight against life can drive usto despair, to depression, to addiction, or simply to a lifelong sense thatthere is someth ing missing, that we „aren‟t there yet‟, that we „aren‟tgood enough‟, that we are sinners, losers, failures…

Perhaps it‟s the failure of seeking that points us Home in the end.

10.) Separation is seeking, and seeking is always about the search for

whole ness…if so, how do we stop this process? How do we stop seeking?



Good question. But can you see that the search for the end of seeking is just more seeking? This is another trap on the spiritual search. We seethat seeking is the „problem‟ (in the sense th at seeking is the very senseof lack we are trying to overcome) and so we try to give up seeking. We

seek the end of seeking, and the seeking never seems to end.

11.) If we can‟t stop seeking, and seeking the end of seeking is just moreseeking, what can we do?

As Krishnamurti said: “There is no how to be free. If you ask how, you‟vestopped listening.”

If you ask „how do I – a separate person – stop seeking?‟, you‟ve alreadystopped listening to what is being communicated here.

This message is about the possibility that there never was a separateperson – there never was anybody there separate from life. There neverwas a seeker separate from what was sought. The question „how do I stopseeking?‟ is rooted in faulty assumptions about who you really are.

And so the question “how do I stop seeking?” is replaced by “is thereactually anybody therewho can seek or not seek?”

The question “how do I stop seeking?” is replaced by “is there a seeker atall?”

At the heart of your experience, can you actually find a seeker? Can youactually findsomebody there who is separate from life? Can youactually find a person there who is living your life? Or is there just thepresent appearance of life?

Is it true that you are a separate

person doing breathing, doing seeing, doing hearing, doingthinking? Orare breathing, seeing, hearing, thinking just happening? Have you everstopped to look, with fresh eyes? Or have you been on automatic pilotyour whole life, just accepting what the world tells you about life andyourself, and never questioning it? Do you believe that parents, teachers,gurus, masters have the answers, and have you accepted their answersunquestioningly?

12.) How can I see that I‟m not separate from life? It seems as though Iam!



Well, that‟s the play. Of course it seems as though you are separate. Ofcourse it seems as though there‟s a me and a you. Of course it seems asthough I‟m over here and you‟ve over there. Of course it seems as thoughthere‟s somebody here subjectively loo king out at a solid, objective world.

It‟s supposed to seem that way. The seeming is the appearance.Theseeming is the play. The seeming is the dance – the dance of duality.

But beyond the seeming, is there actually any separation?

Right now, what is happening? For a moment, if you can, and if you arewilling, put everything you believe on hold, suspend all your second-handknowledge, forget for a moment what you‟ve been told by teachers,gurus, authorities, and look with fresh eyes at life. Look with fresh eyes atyour own experience. Begin again, like a child seeing the world for thefirst time.

Right now, are sounds appearing? Listen: sounds simply happen. Withoutany effort, without you having to do anything, sounds simply appear. Thesound of breathing. The sound of cars beeping their horns outside. Thetelevision blaring. A bird singing.

There is simply the spontaneous play of life.

And then a secondary movement seems to happen: thought comes in and

says “I am hearing”. “I am a separate person, hearing these sounds.There‟s me, and there‟s the sounds. I am the subject, and the sound isthe object. There is a perceiver and the perceived.”

But does this separation ever really happen? In direct, unfilteredexperience, is there any evidence that there is somebody here, hearingsounds? Is there actually a person here who does the hearing, or ishearing simply happening, effortlessly? Is there somebodyhere doingsounds, or do sounds simply appear spontaneously?

Yes, thought says “I hear the sounds”, but this be gs the question, what isthis „I‟ who hears the sounds? Is there really an „I‟ hearing the sounds?Who hears the sounds?

13.) There is hearing, and then a thought says „I am hearing‟?

Well, in direct experience, right now, can you find two things (the onewho hears the sound, and the sound itself)? Or is there just the sound,being heard, effortlessly?



Is any personal doing involved in hearing? Or does hearing just happen?

Could it be that the hearing of the sound, and the sound, were neverseparate? Can you find any dividing line at all, in your direct experience,between the hearing of the sound and the sound? Any gap in time, ordistance, between the sound and the hearing of the sound?

Can you find the one who hears the sound over here, separate from thesound over there? Or are „over here‟ and „over there‟ never part of youractual experience?

Are there two things? Or is there just the singular movement of life?

Same goes with seeing, thinking, feeling. Can you find anybodyhere doing seeing, doing thinking, doing feeling? Or are seeing, thinkingand feeling simply happening, effortlessly?

A question asked by spiritual teachers throughout theages: Who sees? Who thinks? Whofeels?

14.) Is this what you mean by Life Without A Centre?

Well, can you actually find somebody there at the centre of life doing

hearing, doing seeing, doing feeling? Or is everything happeningspontaneously – in a very mysterious way – without you?

Without the thought “I hear”, hearing still happens, doesn‟t it?

Without the thought “I see”, seeing still happens, doesn‟t it?

We say “I am thinking, I am feeling, I am seeing.” But in directexperience, isn‟t it more true to say that thoughts just appear? Feelings inthe body just appear? Sights and sounds and smells just appear?

That t hey don‟t appear to „you‟ or for „you‟, they just appear?

That life isn‟t happening to „you‟ or for „you‟, it‟s just happening?

That really life has no centre?

That really, there is simply the present appearance of everything?

This is the dream: that you are a person at the centre of your life,somehow separate from life. That you are a person doing life, a person

controlling life, a person in charge of life, a person orchestrating thoughts,feelings, sights, sounds smells…





„further away‟ are simply concepts appearing in that which is prior to, andbeyond, all concepts.

Some people do meditation because they think it will get them closer towhat I‟m pointing to. Some people do self -enquiry because they think itwill get them closer to what I‟m pointing to. Some people give uppractices altogether because they think it will get them closer to what I‟mpointing to. I‟m not saying any of this is right or wrong, I‟m just sayingit‟s what seeke rs apparently do!

The real question of course is who does the practice? Who sits down tomeditate? Who self-enquires? Who asks questions and waits for answers?All practices, in the end, lead to this question. All seekers, in the end, areconfronted with their own absence.

So, are you open to discovering what lies beyond seeking? Or are yougoing to run away from this message, and fall back into seeking, and intotime itself?

16.) Why do you think some spiritual teachers give out practices, then?

Well, perhaps the ultimate point of practices is to make you believe that

you are getting somewhere, until it is seen in clarity that there is nowhereto go but here! To make you think that you are getting closer to yourgoals, until it‟s seen that your goals are imaginary. However, this could beseen whilst doing spiritual practices… but it could also be seen whilsthaving a cup of tea, or walking in a park, or listening to music, orshopping in a supermarket…

There‟s a world of difference between sitting down to meditate to getsomewhere, and meditating for its own sake. There‟s a huge differencebetween singing mantras because you think it will bring you closer toawakening… and just singing mantras. There‟s a huge difference betweensitting on a chair watching your breathing because you think it will bringyou closer to enlightenment… and just sitting on a chair. There‟s nothingwrong with meditation, or singing mantras, or sitting on a chair. Howcould there be?

But the question is, what are you looking for? When will you find it? Andis there actually anything to find? Or is there only the present appearanceof life? Is there only life, appearing to no-one? Is that possible? And areyou open to that possibility?



Yes, the need for spiritual practices may simply f all away when it‟s seenthat there‟s nobody here separate from life. And then you will findyourself meditating, or not meditating, and either way, you can‟t gowrong. Because you will see that meditation is equal to eating a cheese

sandwich. And repeating mantras is equal to going to the shops to buy anewspaper. It is all the One Taste, as they say in Zen…

Perhaps the reason I don‟t give out specific practices is because I don‟tknow what‟s best for you, in your dream. I am not an authority on life – ther e‟s no such thing. I‟m not a guru – I don‟t have a one -size-fits-allmethod or practice that will magically solve all your problems. That‟s alovely idea but unfortunately life doesn‟t really work like that. In the end,life isn‟t something that needs to be fixed anyway…

17.) Are you saying we should just stop practices, stop trying to helpourselves, and others?

I‟m not here to tell you how to live, only to point back clearly to life as itis. I‟m not telling you to give up on life, I‟m not telling you t o stop doingwhat you‟re doing, I‟m not telling you to stop helping others, I‟m not eventelling you to „do nothing‟…

Look, you will find yourself helping people or not. You don‟t need me totell you how to live. But beyond helping and needing to be helped, thereis a wordless intimacy here in which nobody can help anybody – becausethere is simply nobody there separate from life. Beyond help andhelplessness, you are already free, and that‟s the possibility that is beingshared here. And again, this could be seen in the midst of practice, or inthe midst of watching TV or doing the washing up.

Nonduality isn‟t about detaching yourself from the world and from other

people (and justifying that detachment with the belief that „there is noworld and there are n o others‟). Detachment is separation. No, this isabout a life lived in fullness, where nothing is denied. And that fullnesscould include moving to help apparent others, although ultimately thereare no „others‟. It could include moving to improve your li fe, if you thinkthat your life needs to be improved, even though ultimately it‟s not „yourlife‟ at all.

To the mind it‟s a total mystery, a total paradox… but to what you are, it

is the clearest and most obvious thing of all.



If someone is hungry, you might give them food. If somebody is inphysical pain, you might help ease their pain if that is possible. Ifsomebody is upset or frightened, you might help them to take a look atwhat they are thinking in the moment, to help them feel exactly what

they feel, to see it all as just a story, and to find the open space beyondthe story. When there is unconditional love, there is enough room for allof this. But where the action comes from, you don‟t know – it all happensspontaneously, without any specific agenda.

When the completeness of life is seen, there is room for appropriateaction, always.

When you see that the world does not need your help, perhaps that‟swhen you become the greatest help. Because „you‟ get out -of-the-way.

So, after all that, do I really need to give you a practice? Can‟t you seethat you already have the perfect practice? That you‟re doing it right now?That, in fact, you are it?

18.) Do spiritual practices bring you to that very realization? Didn‟t you d ospiritual practices when you were a seeker? Didn‟t they bring you towhere you are today?

My goodness, year ago I used to be obsessed with spiritual practices! Iwas desperate to become an „enlightened person‟, I was desperate tobecome „awakened‟, to lo se my self and merge with life. I was adepressed, miserable human being, and I saw spiritual enlightenment asthe only way out. Modern psychology hadn‟t worked for me – it onlyseemed to deal with surface issues. I didn‟t want to „fit in‟ or „adapt tosoc iety‟ – I wanted to be free, totally, radically, free. I didn‟t want afleeting state called „happiness‟ – I wanted truth and reality, something

absolute and unchangeable, something totally beyond earthly pleasureand pain. And so I turned to the teachings of enlightenment, and Ibecame obsessed with my own enlightenment (a wonderful contradictionin terms!)

I tried everything. I meditated for hours every day, I did self-enquiryobsessively, I even became a vegan for a while because I thought itwould bring me closer to enlightenment, closer to the disappearance ofthe self, closer to the dissolution of separation. And it was all very

exciting at first, because I thought that I – a separate person – was



getting somewhere. I thought that the seeker was getting closer to thesought. I thought that I was „nearly there‟.

But eventually, the seeking failed. Why? Because no matter what I did, ordidn‟t do, there was still the sense that there was somebody there,separate from life, doing or not doing. No matter what I did, or gave updoing, to try and get rid of separation, separation still seemed to bethere.

I was in a double- bind. I saw that seeking was futile, but I couldn‟t giveup. I saw that practices were pointless (because they seemed to fuel thesense that I was separate) but I also saw that not doing practices, orgiving up practices, was just another practice, just another tactic to bringabout a desired change. The seeking ended in despair and frustration.How could a separate self get rid of a separate self? Not possible. I waslost.

And in that lost-ness, in that frustration and despair, another possibilityarose. And it had nothing to do with somebody doing something toget somewhere. It went beyond doing practices or not doing practices.This possibility said that freedom was already right here and right now,and that there had never been anyone here separate from it. That nopractice can take you to freedom, because practices already arise in

freedom. That the „I‟ could never become awakened, but ever -presentawakeness is already here, lovingly embracing everything, and here is theend of all seeking. It all became as clear as crystal, as obvious asbreathing. It wasn‟t an experience (experiences come and go), it wasn‟t apassing state (states are in time), it was life as it is, and it had alwaysbeen staring me in the face.

In the seeing of this, practices became totally unnecessary. Having acoffee with a friend became equal to sitting down to meditate. Why?

Because it was seen that the one who sits down to have a coffee with afriend is the one who sits down to meditate! The one who walks throughthe park looking at the beautiful flowers, or the one who lies in a hospitalbed in extreme pain, is the one who sings mantras or goes to therapy orspends a lifetime seeking enlightenment! The seeker is the sought. Thereis nothing to find – nothing was ever lost. As wise men and womenthroughout the ages have tried to tell us – You Are That. Already.

And so these days, life is very simple. The spiritual search came crashingdown, and what emerged from the rubble is a very ordinary life beinglived. Who it is lived by, I have no way of knowing. The question, „Who is





no reality outside of thought. I‟m not saying there is no seeming. I‟msaying there is onlyseeming in thought.

No practice brought me here, because „I‟ am not here! Or you could saythat „I‟ is just a story arising her e, appearing in the vastness of life itself.The shocking realisation was this: freedom had nothing to do withwhatever Jeff did or didn‟t do on his spiritual search. Freedom is not aresult of Jeff‟s search. Life is not caused by Jeff‟s search (what arrog anceit would be to think that!). Jeff‟s search appeared in life… and itself was afull expression of life.

In other words, I had always been Home, but hadn‟t realised it.

Even in the depths of seeking there had been Oneness. But that hadn‟t

been seen – an d that‟s why the seeking had continued for as long as itdid. Seeking is equal to not-seeing.

It was Oneness, dressed up as a seeker, looking for Oneness!

Oneness looking for itself…

20.) Do you feel that your seeking was necessary?

I must say this: the story of Jeff‟s search is the only story that could havehappened, because it did happen. I simply had to go through what I wentthrough, not because it was predestined, but because it happened, simpleas that. What happened, happened. The dream you dream is the onlypossible dream. Your life story is the only possible story that could havearisen. Your dream is perfect for you.

And so spiritual practices were necessary (only because they happened)…until it was seen in clarity that they weren‟t necessary. And when it was

seen that they weren‟t necessary, it was also seen that they had neverbeen necessary, because there had only ever been life, and no practicehad ever taken me even one inch closer to life.

You see, I have always been this. Even before I did spiritual practices Iwas this. When I took my first breath, I was this. When I take my last, Iwill be this. I cannot not be this. And neither can you. You are what I am.And that recognition renders all spiritual practices obsolete.

As I said, this is not a rejection of spiritual practices, but a movement

beyond them, for those who are open.





and smells appearing exactly as they appear. It is sound of the washingmachine whirring. It is the taste of the cup of tea I‟m drinking. So simple,so obvious, so present. So wonderfully ordinary, so extraordinarilywonderful. No need for belief, at all. All belief comes and goes, but this

remains, whether Jeff believes it or not!

Life is the bonfire that burns up all beliefs, all words, even these words,leaving only presence. These words appear and are immediately burnt up.Jeff knows he is not special or different – he is simply an appearance inlife. I cannot be an „authority on nonduality‟, I cannot „know‟ this, becausethese words are equal to the barking of a dog or the tweeting of a bird. Itis all the One expression, it is all an expression of the One, and nobodycan separate themselves from that expression and claim ownership.

Nobody can teach life itself, nobody can give you that, because the dogbarking, the bird singing, the sun shining is already life itself. Nobody canteach you it because everything is teaching it – everything is it.

I‟m not saying “there is no authority, except for Jeff!” (and this is theguru trap of course). I‟m saying there is no authority, and that includesJeff and his expression . To be totally free from all authority, includingyour own… that‟s the real freedom.

These w ords come from the certainty that there is nothing to know. It‟s

not the certainty of the mind, but the certainty that is not-knowing itself.All knowledge, all intellectual certainty, is just a play of thought. Beyondthoughts, there is no world. Beyond the world, there is nothing to know.Who would know it?

You see, where there is belief, there is doubt. Anything you believe, youcan also doubt. If I believed any of this stuff, I could also doubt it. Butbecause for me this is not a belief, there is no doubt either, not a trace ofit.

Life as it is cannot be doubted. In simple language, you cannot doubt thatyou are awake and present, right here, right now. You cannot doubt thissimple feeling of being that is identical with life itself. You cannot doubtthe sound of that bird singing, or the taste of this cup of tea, or breathinghappening…

Oh yes, you can doubt everything you know about life, you can doubt allthe language we use to point to and describe life, you can doubt even theword „life‟ itself, bu t you cannot (unless you are in total denial!) doubt the

reality to which the word „life‟ points. And even if doubt appears, life is



that which is doing the doubting. So in the end you can‟t escape it. Youare Home, no matter what. Beyond belief, beyond doubt.

When there is nothing to know, when there is no belief and therefore nodoubt, all that‟s left is life itself, in all its beauty and rawness, and a deep,unshakeable knowing that this is all there is – and that this is enough(because this is all there is).

It‟s not something that „you‟ know. But, undoubtedly, it is known. Lifeknows, because life is. The Knowing is the Being, and in that, everythingcomes full circle, and life completes itself. The origin of life is itsdestination, and its destination is its origin. Creation and destruction arenot-two.

To look life in the face, and to see only love, only an intimacy beyondwords looking back at you, that‟s when you know it‟s all over… and only

just beginning.

Welcome to Life Without A Centre, the life you are already living!

Twenty Questions with Chuck Hillig

There‟s just something about Chuck Hillig that draws you to him. Maybeit‟s the warmth of his voice or the twinkle in his eye. Or maybe it‟sbecause he can explain the mysteries of the universe in such a simpleway that you have to nod you head and say, “Well, of course. I knewthat.” It‟s almost tempting to say that he‟s part Ram Dass, part AlanWatts, part this sage or that guru. But that‟s just not fair. He‟s just all,well…Chuck Hillig. He k nows who he is and, because of that, he knowswho you are, too. And because he really knows it, he transmits thatknowledge in his books and his talks and, truth be told, just in his beingaround you…if you‟re open to it.

He‟s a fascinating Speaker whose talks leave your soul singing. He‟s acompassionate counselor who has a gift, not so much for taking yourburdens from you, but for showing you, as you travel along the path ofyour life, how to set them down and leave them behind. As with all goodteachers , (and that‟s maybe the best description of Chuck, though notone he might choose for himself), Chuck doesn‟t jam the informationdown anyone‟s throat. He lovingly beckons awareness from where it‟sbeen hiding inside of us. He doesn‟t tell us what we don‟t know; instead,he reminds us of what we‟ve forgotten.



He‟s one of those rare individuals who can do that with a smile or aglance. And for those who don‟t get it from just that, he has written sometruly extraordinary books (now in five languages), gives enlightening talksand is available for professional consultations. ~Laren Bright

POINT OF DEPARTURE

When Consciousness pretends that there‟s a separation between what Itsays It is (the I), and what It says It isn‟t (the not -I), then the worldmysterious ly reappears. But It‟s not really going anywhere. Rememberthat the purpose of a song is not to arrive at the final note. The purposeof a song is found in the joyous singing of It. So it is with Consciousness.In other words, It‟s just singing!

1.) But Chuck, It really can‟t be that basic. Aren‟t you simplifying thiswhole thing a little bit too much?

A: How can you oversimplify something that is, by It‟s very nature,simplicity Itself? In fact, because Its simplicity is absolutely complete andpure, It can only manifest Itself by pretending to be complex. In otherwords, when the indivisible Consciousness pretends to be divided intoparts, It creates an illusory world of polarities. And you already are that

very Consciousness, Itself!

2.) Yes, but if I‟m really this so - called It, then why don‟t I have a directand personal experience of being It right now?

A: This “you,” (the illusory ego -self that you think you are), can neverpersonally experience Its own true, fundamental nature. You can only bewhat It already is (i.e., It). In other words, you will never be able to get It

simply because It already is It! Or, to put It another way, how can youever arrive at a place where you are already dwelling?

Beli eving that you‟re not really there, however, provides the cosmicmomentum for It to, seemingly, go out looking for Itself.

It‟s this purposeful misidentification that sets the entire drama of your lifeinto (e)motion.



3.) Well, if any of It is really true, how can I actually use this philosophyin my everyday life?

A: You can‟t use It in the usual sense because, actually, It will only beusing you. At one level, though, you can stay more aligned with It byconsciously choosing exactly what It appears to be choosing for you.

In other words, practice saying a resounding Yes! to whatever shows upfor you. And, even when you feel like saying no, then just say yes to thefact that, at least for that moment, you‟re saying no.

It‟s best, though, to always make Yes! your default position in life. Don‟treject anything, not even your own rejections!

Remember, however, that you, (the historical ego-self) are onlypretending that you‟re able to manipulate or control It. Consciousness willalways get Its own way in the end, simply because, no matter where youthink your ego-self is going, It is already there, waiting for you.

4.) Is this why you say that It is always directly in front of me in Itsabsolute totality?

A: Yes. I mean, where else could It possibly be? B y definition, there can‟tbe some of It here and then some more of It around the corner, too. Thatwould be implying that It could, somehow, be divided from Itself. But, ifIt‟s absolutely simple and complete, then It can‟t really have any parts atall. It can only pretend to have parts. The you that you think you are isonly one of the many parts that It is pretending to have.

So whatever is in your experience at this very instant is absolutely all ofIt. There‟s really nothing and nowhere else. Or, to put it another way,through Its own I‟s (your I‟s), It sees 100 percent of Itself, 100 percent of

the time. None of It is ever missing simply because none of It can ever beleft out.

Not ever!

It‟s right there in front of you, in Its absolute totality, all of the time.

5.) But where does our idea of God come in?



A: As I said earlier, God really doesn‟t come into It at all. God actuallycomes out of It. The word God (or the Self, Allah, Yahweh, Spirit, etc.) issimply the ego‟s attempt to give a more formal name to the unnamableIt-That-Is.

It‟s like a movie actor who‟s trying to name the underlying screen that hebelieves is necessary for his unfolding drama to be made manifest.

The greatest obstacle, though, is the actor‟s ego based wish to be apersonal witness to his own awakening to this truth.

However, that‟s completely impossible. Why? There can‟t be a separateperson present at the so- called awakening, because there isn‟t a separateperson present right now, who‟s not awakened.

In other words, there‟s nothing for this actor to get. There isn‟t a separateactor present who‟s available to be getting It or, not getting It in the firstplace! In short, all that there truly is, is the seamless and unbrokenScreen of Pure Consciousness, Itself, this mysterious It. After all, It is allOne.

6.) Yes, but what does that do to this whole idea of choice? I mean,

doesn‟t free will really exist? A: Before addressing that question, you need to determine if there areseparate individuals out there who are truly present and real.

You see, if all separation is an illusion, then any discussion about someillusory self having a free will or not would be as useless as arguing aboutthe probable water temperature of a lake mirage out in the desert.

Just like there‟s no real lake out there with a water temperature, there‟s

also no real separate self present which could have (or not have) a so-called free will.

7.) But what does that notion do to the idea of karma, reincarnation andthe law of cause and effect? Are any of those ideas real?

A: Well, yes and no. At one level, karma and reincarnation do exist, butneither of them is actually real. These two phenomena persist as long as

there continues to be the illusion of a separate and an individual self whobelieves that he is the so-called do-er.



Here‟s how It seems to work: If you consider yourself to be setting upcauses, either good or bad, you‟re automatically implying that, sooner orlater, you‟ll have to be experiencing their effects either good or bad.Cause and effect always arise simultaneously.

But, if all separation is illusory, then exactly who is actually experiencingthe phenomena of cause and effect?

In other words, who, specifically, is all of this life and death dramainvolving karma and reincarnation happ ening to? Who‟s the “who?”

If all there is, is Consciousness, then exactly who is being reincarnatedhere?

Or, for that matter, who really died in the first place in order to bereborn?

8.) So are you saying that all of mankind‟s past history is only part ofthis great illusion, and that none of it ever really happened!?

A: There‟s only One so -called movie playing on the Cosmic Screen, and

It‟s always the very drama that‟s surrounding you.

So, did mankind‟s history ever really happen? Consider this: Wh en youwatch a movie, did the off-screen events that are referred to by thecharacters in the film really take place at all? No, of course not. But thedramatic story on the screen is greatly advanced (and enhanced) by theviewer‟s willingness to pretend t hat those off-screen events being referredto did, in fact, actually occur.

But It (the Cosmic Movie) is always fully present in Its absolute totality,right there in front of you. Nothing is ever being left out.

In short, this really is It, and It‟s all h appening just for you in this veryprecious moment of Now.

9.) Yes, but what about the future? It almost sounds like you‟re sayingthat I shouldn‟t try to do anything about it.

A: No, I‟m not suggesting that at all. For example, if It moves you to savethe whales, help the poor, stop the spread of HIV, etc., then go ahead



and throw yourself into It 100 percent. Don‟t hold anything back! Goahead and do It.

The you that you think you are, though, is not really the do-er or the truesource of any of these actions. Consequently, this same you need notconcern Itself with the results of any of these actions that It‟s feelingcompelled to do.

Remember that Consciousness is only sourcing Itself. So, by playing outall the so-called parts, Consciousness is the o nly One that‟s really doingany of It. It‟s the only game in town!

In truth, there‟s nothing else (and no one else) present at all. You are notreally here. Only It is here. And, although It uses different mouths, It‟s

only been having a monologue.

As strange as It sounds, It is totally alone!

Or, to put It another way, It is All One.

10.) But are you saying that I shouldn‟t really care about how thingswork out?

A: Actually, I‟m just suggesting that you play out your role in the cosmicdrama with gusto and passion. Remember, though, that you can remaintruly detached from what shows up for you only if you give up your ideaabout what working out looks like. In truth, things will neither work outnor will they not work out. They will only be whatever they will be.

If you overlay what you think should be happening on top of what actuallyis happening, that‟s only a manifestation of the ego -self pretending to bethe do- er of what‟s unfolding. But, in truth, It is doing It all.

The irony here is that, even th ough it doesn‟t really matter what you do inyour role, It‟s still very important that you go ahead and do It anyway.

After all, the dance is best honored when the dancer (It) dances thedance, even if It means that, sometimes, It‟s going to be stepping on It‟svery own toes!

It‟s all only a dazzling display of colors in a cosmic kaleidoscope. Thenature of the Consciousness that you are is to be what It is, by

pretending to, seemingly, become what It‟s pr etending to not be.



11.) Are you enlightened?

A: Well, if all divisions on the Cosmic Screen are illusory, then how is

individual enlightenment even possible?

In other words, what separate being is ever really there to be enlightened(or, for that matter, to be unenlightened) in the first place?

12.) But isn‟t any of It real?

A: No matter what activities are happening in the movie, the fundamental

reality beneath It all is still only the unbroken and seamless screen that‟ssupporting all of the dramas that are being played out upon It.

Although the world appears to exist, the only thing that‟s really real isConsciousness Itself.

So, as the historical ego- self that you think you are, you‟ve always beenlooking directly into the cosmic mirror of life Itself, and beholding thewondrous and multifaceted face of God.

The incredible miracle is that It‟s always been your face!

13.) So, then, why is everyone seeking some sort of enlightenment, thisIt?

A: In truth, you already are who you are looking for. Enlightenment is notthe attainment of anything new. Instead, It is more like a discovery of theessential truth about what actually is. Your personal drama, though, willcontinue to magically unfold around you exactly as It does. You won‟treally awaken f rom the dream as much as you‟ll awaken to the dream.

But, in this awakening, the Dreamer has to disappear entirely. If not, he‟ll just substitute one dream called once I was asleep for a newer dreamthat‟s called now I am awake! And here‟s the great cosmic irony: The selfwho is asleep is also the very same self who is awake. After all, there‟sonly one self. Only one Consciousness. Only one It.

The mesmerizing seductiveness of the dream is seen in the longstanding

belief that, someday, if the Dreamer only plays his cosmic cards right, hewill eventually awaken. But, in truth, the enlightenment bus that he‟s



been waiting for will never show up for him. Why? Well, by expecting thatsome future awakening may occur for him somewhere in time, he‟s onlyreinforcing his belief that the very same Consciousness he is seeking isnot 100 percent fully present for him, right here and right now. But It

always is.

14.) Isn‟t there some kind of objective reality in the world? What aboutthe idea of good and evil? Don‟t they really exist, even as a small part ofthis universal Consciousness?

A: It might help you to consider that Consciousness (It) is a kind ofcontext or space that appears to contain a world of polarities. But, at the

very heart of truth, there‟s really no success or failure. There‟s no rightand no wrong; no good and no bad; no victors and no victims; no heavenand no hell and no life and no death.

All of these polarities only appear on the subjective spectrum of oppositesthat It creates for Itself in order to play out Its cosmic drama.

In a sense, these opposites appear to radiate out in all directions from thepoint of view that you (as your historical ego-self) think that you have. It,however, contains It all.

15.) What can I do to improve myself s piritually? Don‟t I need to changein some way?

A: But how can who you are really change? Your basic nature is pureConsciousness. Essentially, you are infinite, omnipresent, impersonal,omniscient, and immutable. As such, there is nothing that you need toremember, to learn about, to realize, to strive for, to pray to or to

meditate on.

In fact, It‟s the very belief that real change and spiritual progress ispossible that provides the momentum for you (as the historical ego-self)to want to propel your story forward and out into some kind of illusoryfuture where you can, hopefully, become satisfied, sanctified, or mademore whole.

But, in truth, you can‟t ever become any more of who you already are.

Why not?



Because you already are whatever It is that you are seeking.

16.) What about all of the current interest in metaphysics? Won‟t It help

me to study things like astrology, ESP, tarot, crystals, channeling and soforth? Why wouldn‟t my growth in those esoteric areas be a very positivesign of my spiritual progress?

A: Although the study of metaphysics is neither good nor bad, It oftenproves itself to be a time-consuming diversion for many people. Whenyou‟ re spiritually seduced by the promise that you can attain specialknowledge or powers, It‟s easy for the seeker to become unwittinglydistracted from his true inner quest.

Consequently, these esoteric and pseudo-spiritual practices often give theseeker something else to get attached to or, even worse, to feel superiorabout, instead of helping the seeker to look inside, to discover the truthabout who he really is

Playing the game of spiritual one- upmanship is a subtle ploy that‟s oftenused by the ego to avoid the possibility of experiencing personalannihilation in the face of Its own infinite vastness.

17.) So how do you suggest that I learn to live with myself being thisinfinite Consciousness?

A: Does an ocean wave really need to find the ocean? You already arewhatever It is that you‟re seeking. So, just commit yourself 100 percentto doing whatever It is that you‟re doing, but do It consciously and withan open-hearted sense of detached compassion and total love.

Avoid judging or discriminating against anyone in any way. Other peopleare neither bad nor good. They just are as they are. Period. After all,doesn‟t an author love his villains every bit as much as he loves hisheroes?

Touch life softly, and live each moment as if you‟re arriving at It, anddeparting from It, at the very same instant.

Consciousness will appear to tease you, seduce you, scare you, amazeyou, and, from time to time, even try to overwhelm and destroy you.

Oftentimes after It scares you to death, It thrills you to life. But learn to



fully embrace It as who you are because It‟s just doing the incredibledance of the divine. After all, It‟s the very play of Consciousness, Itself!

And, remember that all of It is being staged for your own delight andedification! Welcome It all joyfully, with a sense of deep gratitude andprofound wonder.

Your being able to play in the world is a miraculous gift thatConsciousness is giving to Itself, so be sure to be an appreciativeaudience to your own melodrama. All of It is just for you.

Let ev erything happen to you because It‟s really all okay, right here andright now, being just as It is!

Remember, the so- called purpose of any dance is not for the dancer‟sbody to end up in some final, frozen position. The real purpose of anydance is only found in the actual dancing of the dance, Itself!

Since you can‟t get out of It, then just get further into It.

So, whatever happens to show up in your drama, just keep on dancing,right where you are!

18.) Won‟t I need some kind of dance teacher to help me with all of It?

A: Yes. A teacher is necessary, but you need to give up your idea aboutwhat this teacher might actually look like. The guru may not show up foryou as a physical human being.

However, the guru (It) is ever- present, and It‟s always appea ring directlyin front of you as everything, and everyone, that you‟re pretending you‟renot. And, since the experiences that show up for the historical ego-selfare, in fact, the guru‟s deepest teaching, you can‟t get lost.

You need to trust that this grace will slowly begin to awaken you fromyour delusion of separation. Whatever‟s happening in your life at this verymoment is the golden path that It has chosen to lead you to yourawakening. The drama unfolds when you‟ve forgotten that you havechosen It being exactly as It is.

And so here is yet another very strange paradox: It turns out to be Itsown guru!



19.) Well, does this philosophy have some kind of special name?

A: Yes, It does. This is a taste of the cross-cultural perennial philosophythat ha s appeared in all societies and cultures. In India, for example, It‟sknown as Advaita, the ancient path of direct insight and knowledge. It‟sreally the way less way because the seeker is not focused primarily on theritualistic devotion, surrender or out ward activity that‟s usually found onmany of the other paths.

The emphasis here is to use the power of self inquiry to seek out thesource of the belief in I by asking yourself the ultimate, primordialquestion: “Who am I?”

All of the answers to that mind stopping question slowly drop away. You

awaken to find yourself in a place in the heart that you never really left.At that pointless point of awareness, your ground of being becomes, quitesimply, I am, and you recognize the very essence of who you really are:Love. Loving Itself!

20.) Okay, but quite honestly, how can any of this strange stuff help thereal world?

A: Well, is it the so- called real world that‟s asking this question, or is itonly the “you” whom you think you are?

Your spiritual work lies in discovering for whom this question is arising.

As Ramana Maharshi said, “The answer to life‟s problems is to first see „who‟ has them!”

And so, It is.

◊

Before he retired in 2006, Chuck Hillig worked professionally as a state-licensed psychotherapist in California for 30 years. During his long career,he has helped thousands of people deal with a variety of both worldly andspiritual issues: depression, anxiety, communication, stress reduction,relationships, grief work, anger management, parenting, addiction, lifetransitions and re-discovering spirituality.

Over the years, Chuck has presented hundreds of lectures, seminars andworkshops about both psychological and spiritual subjects to a wide



variety of audiences from teens to seniors. He has been invited to speakat churches, hotels, libraries, high schools, universities, hospitals, retreatcenters and military bases in more than a half a dozen different states.Chuck is a Life Member of Mensa and is a regular Speaker at both their

local Regional Gatherings on the east coast and at their yearly MensaAnnual Gatherings across the country.

Because of his formal training as a psychotherapist, Chuck is able toeffectively combine the spirituality of eastern philosophy with thepracticality of western psychology in powerful ways that clearly speak tothe Heart of who we really are. Chuck has appeared as a Guest on dozensof TV and radio shows in California, Illinois, New Mexico, Colorado, NorthCarolina, Utah, New York and Canada. Chuck was also interviewed about

his books and philosophy by the producers of the powerful movie, Leap!Finale.

Chuck Hillig makes his home in Locust Grove, Virginia, and has one heckof a good time living life. Chuck is available for private sessions either byphone or by video Skype. You can contact him at: [email protected].

VISIT: http://www.chuckhillig.com/

http://www.chuckhillig.com/

http://www.chuckhillig.com/

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