Legislative Assembly Hansard 1926 - Queensland Parliament · 2014. 6. 3. · Water Bill. [5...

Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 5 OCTOBER 1926

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

882 Water Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Water Bill.

TUESDAY, 5 OCTOBER, 1926.

The SPEAI,ER (Hon. vV. Bertram. Jlarce) took the chair at 10.30 a.m.

PAPERS.

The following papers vvere la iu on the table:~

Additional Hogulation under the Unemploved \Yorkers Imnrance Act of 1922.

City of Brisbane~Ordinances daiecl the lOth September, 1926 :~

Theatres and Places of Pnblic ~-\.muscment;

Beach or River Bathing: Petrol Pump5.

PlUMARY PRODUCERS' ORGAXISA-TION AXD MARKETING BILL.

I~ITIATIOl\.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. V•i. Forgan Smith, Jiackay): I beg to lTIOVO-

' That the House will, at its next sitting, resoh·e itself into a Committee of the \Vhole to consider of the desirableness of introducing a Bill to consolidate and amend the Primary Products Pools Acts, 1922 to 1925, ancl tho Prln1ary Producers' Organisation Act3, 1922 to 1925, and for other consequential purposes; and to amend certain other en a ctmonts in certain particulars."

Question put and passed.

COTTO:"i' I:\'DUSTRY ACTS A"\lE:\'D-1\lKNT BILL.

Tnnm READD:G.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Jiackay): I beg to move-

" That the Bill be now read a third time."

Question put and passed.

Lic;:UOR ACTS AMEXDME"\.'T BILL.

ASSENT.

The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a messrrge from His Excellency the Lieutenant-Gov-ernor assenting to this Bill.

WATER BILL.

RESC:\IPTIOK OF Co~rMITTEE.

(Zilr. P. A.. Coop<;·, JJrc n' ,·, one of the panel of 'l'em 1 orrlr'J Chair1nen, zn the chair.) Quest'on stated-

'· That clnus0 55-' Artesian and .•ubartesian wells to be licensed '~stand part of tho B:Ji,"

on v:hirh Mr. Corscr (JJuructt) had moved the fol'owing amendment:-

" On line 34, page 21, omit tb0 \vords' and no sub-arteo;;ian \Yell.' "

Mr. CORSER (Bumett) : I moved the amendment in view later on oi the dcsireablcness of making arrangements for tho

[Mr. Corser.

introduction of a Bill to deal with subartesian ;v-ater rights. The provisions in this Bill relating to sub-artesian waters, in addition to h~mpering the mYners of sub-artesian wells, will be most offensive to them.

As one hon. member opposite said, this Bill has been promised since 1918. It was to have as its object the supplying- of sub-artesian water to the owners of land in dry areas, and to a~sist those owners in procuring it. l"nfortunatol,-, this Bill does not make provision for that important o.,sontial. The Ino;;:t important fa,...ior in proYiding water is to provide it in areas v,-hich are bereft of it. A natural corollary in securing such n want is the necessary capital. In my district, since the House adjourned last week, I received several letters of complaint on the subject, and pointing out that the difficulty confronting those ~equiring vvatcr in our drier areas is the lack of the necessary capital to secure it. These people have been advised to make application to the Ag-ricultural Bank for a.dvancc~ to ean·y out this work, but they have been informed bv the Bank that thoy he ve not the necessa.rv security to f'IHlb]c advancos to be made.

0

This B'ill prov-ides that these very people vv-ill be forced to go to this Bank for adv-ances to secure supplies of V\'ater, so their present po.,ition will not be improvecl.

Tho Bill would be of some value if. as in the Upper Burnett land sl'ttlemcnt scheme. Parli,mwnt each vear voted monev for the cst'lhliFhment of

0

a fund from ,;·hi eh the Cornmissioner for Irrigal ion could make advances to individual property·lwlders or to a rommunit;y of settlers for thp nurpoc.e of cstabli~hlng a w~ttcr snnply. There Ji"

no ,-aluc in this Bill to those noon!<', and selcctnrs who h3..YC not a n1ortgage::tble seruritv left will be in no better position than theY arc at the present time. The clauses dealing with the licPnsin!{ of subartcsi:Jn wells and 'yaters t\·i1l be a great iPconvcPicnce to the indiYiclun 1 rir hts of the l1o1ders of th~~ arr.a;; s·Jpp1icd, nnd is 110t '"hf1t was contemnlaL)d Ol' askf'd for by those who hav-e already obhined such sourcP·· of supply.

Mr. MORGAN (Murillrt): The Minister would be wPII adv-ised if he cava the Committ~e the r0asons whv the Commissioner desire' control of sub-artf'ian \vatcrs. That is a most important nrinr'p1e. I con quite nndrrstand the ncccssitv of g;ving the Con1-mfssionrr fu1l control of artesian wat0r oupplies, though 1 fail to understand "hv. the term "w0ll" is used, as nsual1v a \Yell IS a halo suek in the ground by ninns nf pick and slJOYel. the s':me as a mine. To my knowlcd<sc there 1s no such tlnng- as an nrtC· ian ";vc1l." I do not knew of an irst1nco where arh_··'>i::Jn wqtcr h'"~s b"cn discovered mrrelv bv oinking "- shaft into the ~TOU!ld, crtnsir.g ·th0 'vnter to ri:-:::- to the top. I wonld describe th~t a.~-. a sming, and it would be alt.oc:cthor different from on artesian bore. In tho deGrition "\vrJl" includes l1nrc. \Vhv is the 1\Iinl: ter nlaring a rc::triction nnon those Yrho alrcJdv hav2 nrto-:ian ot· sub-nrte::lan bores or v.·clls. and upon tlv1s0 who dn:iro in tbc fut-•rc t0 sink subartesian bores or wells? The hon. g-entleman knows perfectly well. as also does the CornrniE=~ionf'r. thnt no o·~c hflYing a subarL_-::Jian bore is likclv to intrrf-.rp with the sunply of \vat._.: "-ithin a rad'm cf half a mile or a mile. It is a rcccgniscd fact that

Water Bill. [5 OCTOBER.] Water Bill, 883

different water strata exist under the ground and ma'· b8 tapped by artesian or sub· arte•,ian bores. Tho average depth of a sub· artsian bore is from 50 to 2iJO feet. although I admit that in son1c cxrPptional cuses a sub-artc~ian bore i3 put do·\·n as far , '3 60J or 70J f •et. I cannot understand the pro· vioion insisting upon the registration of .uch bores or the nrccs_;;ity for placillg thern in the hands of the Commissioner.

I look upon this measure as one of the most important Bills that has cvPr come before Parliament, but I am sorry that greater interest has not been taken in it by ~ <rre.·•ter number of members. I know that th~ Bill affects country representative-' to a great0r extent than it does city rPprcscntatives, but unfor(unatel.v there does not seem to be any serious attention given to this most in1pcrtailt n1atter. \Ve recognise that water is ono of th3 n1ost in1portant factors concerning the future prosperity of Quepnsland.

This clause distinctlv states that. if any one desires to decp£.n an existing subartc,,ian well or bore, he must r:r:.c.1ke an application to the Commissione_r. Wo all know that a water supply 1nay g1ve out very quickly. A man may be a thousand miles av ay ·from Dri,bane and from the Cornmis~ioncr, and suddenly he finds his water supph· from a bore is not satisfaclory. He makes inve3tigations and di-covcrs that the bore has either given o:1t ·or will not giYc a suffici(ncy of water to supply a large number of stock during a drought period, although there mav be a s·.1fficicnt supnly for normal time~. To get pcrmi~sion to deepen the bore 01' 'scJl, he mu~t \\ rito to the C'omm iRsioner. and bv the time the letter rc•aches the Com· n1issio.ner and the Comn1issioner uwkes inquiries as to the advis1blcnr:;;s or othr~rwise of allowing the selector to deep" n the bore and sends a reply. a fortnipht at the ver.v least may have elapsed, and that mav mean the death of a large JmmbN of stock. 'rho selector is liable to a penalt:v of £500 if he deepens that here lw one foot without prrn1i3~ion, and he is liable to a further da]y penaltv not cxcncding £25. \Yhcn we prcvido such an cnormo 1s penalty, ono would think that a ,,,lector W8S com· mi tting one of the rnost seriouR c_rimin_al off<'nrcs in the whole cal~ndor of cl'!me, If, in order to ~"VG the lives of his etock. he dare put a eand pump in for tlw purpose of deepening a sub·artesian hore to provide D

better "ater su•1plv. The Minister may say that undrr E<uf'h circumstances the Con1nlissim,er "ould not prosecntn. The point is that the Commissioner has p<>c<er to do so, and the man wo·.dd be breaking the law. Gcnrra lly speakin<;. country pconlc are not de 'irons of breaking the l,ni·. The :'.1inister will b:> wc•Il advised if ho to.kos tlw a dYice of hon. nF'm he-rs on this side-and. I feel sure, the advir~ of members on the other side who represent country clectoratc">-and accept, tl:e anlcnd•,f'nt. There is no \YDste of "\Yatcr 1n connect;on with a ~ub-urtesinn ben'. The \\'.Jtrr h·1s t.o be drawn to the surface by llHl''h-inr-ry, and no one is g:oi11g to draw one brcketful of watrr more than. is nece"at')" to the R,lrfcu:c, h"'cuuso it co~t~ rnone:v to do oo. It is a d'ffrrent thing altercther to artc~jan bores, b"'"allsC th~) urtc:.:inn flov17 comes to the 'urfoce itself. and, if it is not nro·wriY locked th•·re will he a \Ti!ful wast~ of ";"t 0 r. \Vo have no objection to the Cocnmicsinner heving tho po "ers contained in this clause in connection with

itrtesian bores, but we do urge upon tho :\Iinister not to pen a hoe people who already have sub-art{ ,ian bores or wells, and not put upon people who arc des;rc;ms of putting down sub·art<:·sian wells a cond,hon that vnll prevent them doing so, and .a condition that will mean a penalty of £500 rf a man d~cJ;ens his sub·artcsian bore without pernnsswn. I a pp ea! to th~ ;viinister to uso common sense, and I appeal to hon. m cm bprs on the other side who rcpnscnt country electorates to 'UilTJOrt the Opposition in this amend· ment, and to britlb' pressvro to bo.ar upo_n the Minister not to "llow a blot llke thts to g·o into a Bill, which. generally sp01king. is required for the proper conscrvatwn of "·,,ter in Queensland.

:\fr. ROBERTS (East Toou·oom.ba): I look upon ihis as a yer~v irn11ortant rnattcr. \Vc want to do all that wo can to encourage people to proYide water f~cilitics .. an~ \YO

do not want to pass lcgts!ahon that 1s nkely to crea to a doubt in the minds of the settlers as to the interference they are likely to cnco'.lnter in this connection. I sa\v an in:;tancc the other day ,rhcro such a proYision as is contained in this clause would he most il!·adviscd and unworkable and a hindrance 1 o a man vvho want~ \Vater urg·ently. Owing to the drougl;t through which "\YC arc passing, a rcduct:on 111 the water supply has taken placo and boring appliances arc t_ravellil_lg through the district. UndPr ord1nar;v Clrf'lllUstanccs 1t would h"ve cost that man £50 to deepen his subartesian bore, but he took advantage of the prcsenre of a travelling boring nppli.anec in1n1ediatcl~ ho f" .t w the dang-rr he \Yas hkely to incur, ,;;,d for £10 he ,.", .. able to have his well or bore clccpt>ncd, ami ho can assume uow that he has a pcrrnancnt water :;;upplv.

\Yhat would be the position under this clause as it stands? Before that settler could have got permission, even by telegram, from the rommissioner to sink for water, that boring plant would have: been out of the district. Subclausc (3) rerrcls-

" If such occupier fails or neglects to comply with any order of a police magistrate. the Commissioner may fill in such well ·and dismantle and rcmm·e all and am· plant and machinery installed or erected in connection therewith."

What is the use of putting conditions liko that into the Bill? It. seems ridiculous to me in a countr:. like <:;'nccnsland. where every gallon of v·ater is required, quite apart from the individual himself who may have come into conflict with the law. \Vatet is urgently rc'luired in the country; yet wo put into the Bill a provis'on like this, which allows the Commissioner to fill in a well. We might as well lot him dig the well,, in the first place and do tho whole of the job, as it would keep him emplo::ed. We have too n1an~, 111en :in this countr;c¥ snpervis;ng other men who arc doing honest toil. It is time \VC came do\;nl to business. Th-is prov1s;on is a hindrance to the m11n in the country. This is another return he will have to make -another fee he will have to pay. It is things like these that are cau>ing men to leave the land and con1o iooto the cities, whore these regulations do not appl:•.

1Vr. SWAY:\E (.llirani): I hope the i'vfinistcr will favo'Jrablv comider the amendment. which particularly appeals to me because in the bark part of m: electorate there are small cattle holdings. There is a great

Mr. Swayne.l

884 Wate>· Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Watm· Bill.

dearth of "urface water there. I can quite understand that it is nece"sary there should be a certain amount of regulation of artesian supplies and running streams; bnt it is quite unnecessary that snb.artcsian wells from 150 feet to 250 feet deep-purely local supplies-should come under the same category. There are cases where serious loss would be caused by that being done. I happened to he up in the back part of my electorate Rome time ago, wht·re tl1('rL' a1l· a Jot of small cattle owners and the country is very poorly provided with water. I adnsed the owner of the place I was on ihat I had just heard that there was a sub·artosian plant at work about 100 mileB aw:ty which had nearly completed operations. and that. if ho would get into communication with the owners, he could get the use of that plant before it went <twa,v to >mother part of Queensland altogether. 'l'hc people ou these holdings have not much money. and, if it inYoh·ed the expense of geiting a plant from a .long distance to bore for water, they could not undertake the work. In this ea; .. the boring plant was brought across to the holding where I first ac1viscd it. and three wells wore put dov"n, onf' of which "\Vas a "dud" and the other two good wells. Owners of stn·· rounding placc' also utilised the plant, and fully half a dozen holdings were benefited as well as the ccmrnunity at largo; and I can safelv say that the· depari,n•cnt derived a benefit in revenue through those wells b~ing put down. If this Bill had then been in :orce, I believe those wells would

never have been put down. All r11 a.m.J these restrictions are unnCCH·

bary; and, instead of imposing undue restrictions on individuals, every encouragerucnt should bo givPn to thr-n1 to obtain and utilise ,,',tter supplic- so long as the~ do not :rcspass on the rights of the general community. In this c lse that could not happen, and oyory assistance should Le giv~n them to utilise the supplip~ of \Yater wlnch arc tit,-rc. Then again, in 111o~t case::., like this tinH' is the essence of the contract. You hayr to g, t your water cupply quickly. In my 0lPctoratr at the prcsC'ni- tiwc 111an.v graziers obtain their water supplies from the sand in river beds In a dry time that water mpply dec1·eases day by day, and. when the river level falis bElow their wells, the only resource is suh·artesian boring. They hang on ~tntll the ln'~t. hoping that rain \nll cou1c. If rt does J_Jot come an cl th< :; <l<~cidp to get other supp]w,, lmcler this Bill thcv will have to go all through the delay of applvir:ur to the Corn miss "oncr i11 Brisbane for 'pcr~nission. That procedure will pro!Jably toke weeks and weeks, and durinr)" th<.tt ti1ne stock is perhaps pNishing. Ko h,;'rm h"s vet been done by sub-art('~ian boring. The" morncnt graziers have seen their other sources of suppl-:~ coming 1o an end, the~' have golF' down to the sub·artcsian level and they have been able to do that quickl•·; but nm:.. thev will haye to go through a -delay of fin, or six weeks perhaps, as in the case I haYc in my mind. A lot of cattle arc on the area. There arc many holdings. There is only a wooLly mail, and it will be almost a fortnight before any application could re:cch Brisbane. vVe know how departments deal with these matters. and, eYen if the reply were sent by wire, valuable time >muld be lost. In all probability an inspec· tion would bo considered necessary, and the upshot might be that cattle which could have been saved would be lost as a result of the

[.Mr. Swayne.

delay. Again, many farmers are in the habit of tunng irrigation plants on a small scale to utili~e the supplies of water in wells, for instance, in order to grow catchcrops in dry times. V cry often they find that the existing supply decreases, and it iN ncc"s:;ary to have so~e de ·ncning of thP well. 1J nder this Bill thov will have to go all throcqh the rod.tapo of making an application to the Commissioner, no matter how good the supply ma:, be. Under Bills like this Quc·'nslnnd is fast passing under tho l'Ontrol of an official bureaucracy, and we all kno»· how detrimental the results of a svstcm like that can be in dealing >Yith men on the land. I think a very strong ease has been made out for the amendment.

1\1r. ED\VARDS (~Yananyoj: The Minister \,ill be well ach-iscd to accept the amend· mcnt, thus deleting all interference with snb·artosian bores. Tho 1\linister knows that many of the difficulties and troubles 11·hich surround land settlement have arisen from ill.advi-.,ed interference b' the State. Although the point at issue may seem to be rather a mir:or matter, it is a very important question, because people who are isolated in iho country do not grasp the real situation about matters of this kind as quickly as the men administering the laws in the Lands Department or the f'ommiss'on01· of Irriga· tion. A farmer may sudden!-. find it abso· lntely r,eccc·sary to ·sink a ,~·ell or deepen his "xisting well, but he mav be hindered in ca1T~ ing out the \York j1~1n1ediatcly by baYing to make application to tho depart· mc·nt and to ~ecure permi~~ion, and this hindrance mav moan that eventuallv the ,-,·ork canl!oi b~ t<Lrricd out because fin~ancial a,si.sta!lC0 is not th0n available. It is such ilT~tat-inro· int~crfcrcncc and pin-pricking legislatwn that naYe JWcvonted land settlement being tho succcos that wo had hoped. Instead of SlH ccs~, \VC have discontr•ntJncnt arnongst the rn~-'n on t.ho land; and I \rould urrr0 the 1\[ini .. <tcr to set his mind on makiug av:ihtble a!l t.hn _chr>ap rnonc} poi~siblP for the' purpOiiC ot sJ_llking and dce11Cning- i:orcs; ruthcr than pnt:-=-rng lc;;i:-lnt-ion n: ~trictil~2' that actiYitv. Tl~,: ~\1 in}stcr n1nst realise tl~at th· rnan ~n !he land very oft"n carrie" out necessary ~n1provcrncnt-, under rnost tl'YitJg c.Jnditions. I krtO\Y of rnan> cases \Vhoro v'l fanner ·would 1:~ongh hi.-. lapd dnrinli th( dRy rnd deepen ht3 ,,·ells durmg thfl mght. These ;cro some of the l,arcl-hir with which they have to cr·niend. and I hope the :\Iini."tcr. will giYo thy: rnat~cr rnost serious cor·",]dPration, and »:tll not In1Jl03e any further harassinv, condi· twn,, on the small settlers in this State.

l\Ir. 1\IOORE (A.u'Jir;ny): The objc;ction to thiS .cly.u~\c would not bo so groat if th8 cl?ftn1t1on of " suh-artcs;an well" "'\Vcre chffercnt. vVhcn int,roducing the Bill tho }Iuustcr gayo the i1nprcssion that his idea of a mb·artosian well WJs one that had ceased to flow and from which water had to bo pumped. The definition of " subaric"inu '\Yell" reads-

" Suh-artcslan well or bore, together with all \Yorks constructed or crcr-tcd m connection therewith. from which the watc'l· doe·' not flow nnturallv to the surface but h's to be rai,,ed by !JUmping or other artificial means."

That covers every little pot.·holc and every 'mall well in the country. If the definition had been amended to include the impression given by tho Minister whon introducing the Bill, there would not be any objection.

Water Bill. [5 OCTOBER.] Wate:· Bill. 885

\Ve have no objection to the control of artesian wells or artesian bores that h<t ve ceased to flow; but we do object to the control of the small VI ells that one knows are essential in every little towmhip. Look at the number at Ayr and Home Hill ! Every cottage has its sub-artesian bore behind it. What difference can it make whether one bore gives a certain flow and another bore does not? The fact that one person can secure a supply from one bore at 30 feet does not nec,l6sarily mean that another person will secure the same supply at that depth 30 yards away. The ,,tr.:tta through which you proceed gives you no knowledge as to whether you are likely to secure water; and there is no basis upon which you can decide if water is thPrc. If there was, there would be no necessity for the Government employing water diviners to go into the country and study the geological formation so as to be able to say whether "a tor can be secured. Obtaining water is purely a gamble. It is absurd to suggest that a man should send an application to the Commissioner and that inquiry shall be made before permission is secured to deepen a sub artesian well. I know that in clause 58 there is a saving paragraph which says that a man may deepen his well "on account of any sudden or unfot·cseen emergency "; but it seems to me that this Bill is only placing obstacles in the way of the settler. and harae.sing him with no benefit to the ::Yiinistcr or Commissioner. If the Minister or the Commissioner can show any bencflt, I would like to hear of it. I have not met one single per<on who has been able to give me a suggestion as to why this power is required. There Reems to be no sense or reason for it. If the Minister states that these powers will enable the Commissioner to make a tabulated report of these wells, and make it easier for people to secure ;yater and prevent persons from undermining the sources of their neighbours' supply, then there would be some reason for it. ?\carlv all the sources of water supply in Queensland, except in the western country, are the ordinar:'~ sub-artesian vrells, EOrne of \vhirh are 15 or 20 feet deep, while some have bePn sunk down to 500 feet. The mere fact that water in a sub-artesian well recedes does not mean that. if the well is decnened, it will interfere with the sunply of the owner of another well. The Rill will harass individuals who do not wish to be harassed at time" like the present, A man does not sink a well for fun, but only when it is neceseury to obbin water for stock, and, as a rule, he waits 'until the last moment before he does so. \Ye have no objection to the proposal so far as artf,')ian '\Yaters arC' concerned, because the closing lPJ of bore~ and ~inkinQ" of new bores may hav0 a definite effect on the artesian supplic,,, although it will not h~vo anv effect on sub-arteqian sunplics. I would like to know from the Minic.ter his reasons for the application of this clause to sub-artesian waters. nnd what benefits a re likely to accrue to the selector or the department as a result of securing these powers.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA~DS (Hon. T. Dunstan, G.lJrn-nir): I can only repeat my argument on Thursday last as to whv it is necc,ssary to include suh.artesian wells and water in this Bill. I stated then that they we•re included to give the Commissioner control over these sub-artesian wells

in the same manner as <tn\· other source of water supply. If control {n regard to suhartr,ian wells is to be taken out of the Bill, the s<tme argument could apply to remove control in any other direction, and thus make the Act a dead letter. The Committee ha•· already agreed in clause 4 to vest the ·rights of water in sub-artesian bores in the Crown. Obviously that rnmt carry with it some controL The registration fee for sub-artesian bores-that is tlw small bores-will be nominal only; but it will enable the Commissioner to carrv out a surYey of the natural water rt:::50urces of Queensland. That information will be most Yaluable. I would ask the hon. member for Murilla-who raised the point that, in consequence of this clause, owners of subartesian waters rnay not in ca~cs of sudden emergency, without suffering long delay in securing pcrn1i:;slon, deepen or alter their bores to obtain the necessary water supplyto read clause 58.

Mr. MoRGAN: I have read clause 58, but that does not got o\er the difficulty.

The SECRETARY FOR PLJRLIC L<\.NDS: Clause 58 gives owners ample protection in case of ctnorgcncy. There is no intention to hamper owners of sub-artesian bores.

Hon. members should realise tnat, with a general 5cheme of contro1ling tho nat;u_ral water~ of Queensland, there 1nust he provrs.ton for tlw control of snb-a.rte,irrn waters also. There is neccssitv for a ourvev to deal particnlarlv with those case. ":here artesian \va ters ··ha vc ceased to flo-w aud sub-artesian waters mav be available. There is also the nec('ssitv tO ma.k0 provision to cope \vith those using 'tter facilities to the detriment of tho~c ll0ill' thcn1-those '\Yho do not '"ish to obey the law, and t.hose 1>ho try to igno~·e it. That is the reason why penalties are proYJded. "\s I stated previously. we haYe had caseB where such men have found it cheaper to put dmn1 a bore and break the law. without regard to anybody Plsc, :1nd latPr merely pay a nominal penalty. 'l'here will be no interference with those who have> sub-artc"ian bore' and are using them for household purposc;s only.

Mr. G. T'. BAR:'\IES (Jra,·u:id): Tlw intentions of the ::\linistcr nut~-- be very good in the dirertion of not hara s,ing settlers ':;ith regard to their water supply. hl1t for all that the hon. g·entlcn1flll ii" gojng to harnss them vm·y effectivelv. This is one of the extremely dra.stic dn uses of the BilL Surely there j~ no need to cHstru::;t n1en \YlJo haYC' prayed their i11diYiduaUtv and ~ure0~s in the }last in securing- a "~atcr snpp],T for th0ir variou:; arPns? If a 1nan '.vho ha-.; a \Yrll rcqnircs to improve that \Yell, Slll'P]y there is no n1an who··P judg"ment should be rr!ied upnn as rrrcatlv as that of the man '' ho alread·,- has inrnrr2d a grP'lt an1ount of expense and has fulftllrcl the clesirr of his hc.·rt in obt ining a water eunply. I maint·nin that so·1wthing ~ho11ld be done fo rcrog-ni· lhn \\·ork alrcrtdy achicYcd by such inclividnak

The Bill a.s it stands e1 irn~ control OYt'r

('Yerv pha~e of nt·•r supn~:v. :;o mB;ttPr wh0thPr it be a pot-hole or a-n_ in:;:ignific!nt wdl, it belon<rs to thr Stai<'. It is only fair and n~.sonablc that a m'lll who ha~ d ... •nc !"O n1uch to srcnrc a \rnt; r S.Ullpl:: should rrr>c],·c recognition, and tlw onl:v "\va:T he ca.n be recognised to ~orne cxh nt is Ly the j\[inister accenting the amPndment. If it is not accepted, then sv.rr1o eonsir1 eration

Mr. G. P. Barnes.]


should be given to the man who has sunk his own well or bore. This unceremonious seizing of tho possessions of a n1an and prevent1ng hin1 carrying out furthcr irupron:ments iR not ju~t, and ·will not a·sJi:st in developing our country Ol' satisfying the settlers already on our L nds.

Hon. W. H. B.\R:\"ES (Jrynnum): I do not kno v whc,ther the :Miniskr has realised what he is in for if he put; throngh this clause 1vithout the am.,-wd1ncnt. Onr water supply p~·..__...-iously came unch r the adnliuistration of the Tn·J.sury Departmr·nt, an cl I have a very vivid recollection of the troubio previowJly expcric:nced in ihis rr:·attcr. Unless tho 11inister is prepared to ar:ccpt an amendment cuch as the one proposed, he will lnve a real hornet's nest a bout him in the futurf', bctJ.u ,p ihe clausP i!'. g.oing rnnch furiher than any previous legislation. I am prepared to admit tlMt th<'re must be somr supervision, especially Ly reason of the fact that in many cases the \Yatcr supph· sr,ems to be falling off; but the Bill is Yery drastiC', and is going to take in rnany things that the ;\[inistcr eannot have consich'red. It is going to be one of tho·c pin-pricb \vhich is go\ng lo make it exc,'edingly difficult for people who arc nmv on the land to stav there. I "ant to emphasise this point i;t ~11 seriousness. This is not a party n1crrsurP. Our aim shonld be to sec what \YC' call do to tnaintail! settlPmcnt on thP land. Even th0 S:;·dney "Bnlktin "-I am sorry I have· not the quotation hcrc--drav·s attention to that particular fact. If the \\ords "~Subartesian" are left as thf'y appear in thP Bill. it is going to make i1 difficult for the IV[ini<;;ter to admini .tor the Act. That is a stnall n1attor, but the bigg-Pr thing is that it i~ going to hurt Queensland.

Tl11' SECRETARY FOR PL"BLrc L \xPR : 1 t 1s going to benefit Queensland.

Hon. W. H. BAR:\"ES: That is the exprc·~..;ion of a no\~icc in land administration, because the Govcrnn1ent in not accepting the amendment are hitting at the small man.

;>.ir. !\OTT (Stanle:i) : The :\linioter would be well ad,,ised to accept the amendment. especially as he says he does not ;yant the Bill to become a dead letter. The wav to make the Bill becorr:e a dead letter (s to put in a number of regulations that the GoYernmcnt haY0 no hope of enforcing. \Ye' had the spectacle some little time ago of the Governrnc 'lt passing a Bill irnposing a,

tax on hcavv Y0hid0s. \Ye know that is a dead letter,' and this cl a m·r will tend to n1akc this rrH,asure a. dead h"~hf'r. I agree \vith the Mini·.otcr that \Vc want to get as detailed a sunev as we can of the whole of t:IO artc•Jian and other vcatcr suppJie. of Queensland. Thnt is particubrly important. and I hold that the more sub-artesian ancl artesian bores put clown Jli:' greater "-ill be our ch::ncc. frotn a f:tatistical point of Yie,,v. of gt'tting the desired informaiion. In rnany cas0s the fart that a nHln \Yill k110'1.' that ho is controlled by vr.rious r0~ttlntions 'vill act BB 8. deterrent to the pntting {io-wn of bor0S. Take my own case. .Just rcccntlv at th0 back of my house, which is cbo·rt'75 miles from Drisba'1C. I put dm"n '"h"t I suppose \vould be clRf~Pci as a ,,:1b~ lrt-•:<ian 1vdl. At 275 feet I sh'uck water that is altirr than the sea, and it will be pretty hard if I otm• to bo asked to pa v a license foe for t ha i or to take out a. liccn~0 before I can ~tart

[Mr. G. P. Barnfs.

boring 200 or 300 fe2t away, where I may po::siUl:;. get fresh \Vater.

Hampering regulations and the necessity to take out licenses are like! Y to deter many men from going on witl1 the sinking of boreg. The more water \VC can make available through the sinking of bores in all parts of Queensland the better it will be for the developn>ent of the State; and I hope tho :\Iini,ter will consider that phase of the matter. It is desirable that the department should know all it can; but oven without this regulation the Commissioner has quite sufficient power to examine any of the water supplies already in existence in any part of Queensland. That ought to bo quite enough 'vithont giving him power to in1pose these drastic conditions and force people to apply for iicerJc.es and come under the regulations. \Yhcre can we dmw a distinct lino o£ demarcation bct\Yecn artesian and sub~artesian water? There is troing to be a great deal of difficulty in saying what is an arte,ian and what is a sub-artesian bore. On one oc-casion, -whPn I was sheep farn1ing on the other side of palby, I had an artesian bore for a number of years, and there was a flow of humlreds of thousands of gallons a day; bnt it ceased all at once owing to defective casing. Quite a number of people later on classed that as a sub-artesian bore, because the >Yat'Cr did not come up to the surface. 1t was necessary to get the water up, which v·as clone by pumping a distance of 25 or W feet. Thoro are quite a number of other bores which are classed as sub-artesian, which jn n1anv cases are not sub-artc,,ian but another ·class of well altogether.

}Ir. DEACO~ (Cunningharn): I hardly sec the necessity for including thei e small surface supplies of water under the Bill, particularly as the :Minister seems to realise what the eflect of doing so will be. I£ a man goes in for the enlargem('nt of an existing small supply of water without the permi,sion of the Commissioner, ho is liable to a penalty of £500. If he wants to sink a new well-which may be only 20 feet deephe has to apply to the Commissioner for permission and get a Ecense. What will his stook do in the mea, time? Does the ::\linister believe that there is any possibility of enforcing these conditions? If there is not, why put them in the Bill? The Minister must know that he cannot enforce conditions like these. \Vhv bother about imposing a ,mall license fee? The next thing will be that owners will haYe to mak<' returns showing that they O\'\n a >Yell, and they will have to pay a license Jee. If a n::.au obt.·,ins a sup11ly of \Vater from a spring aloJ]gsicle hin1 ·without obtaining permission from the Commissioner, he will be said to l1e interfering with the spring and will be liable to a penalty of £500. It is uneeossary to bring small water supplies under a Bill of this nature. There 'hould be common sense exercised, and a distinction rnado in cases like that. The Minister and the Comn1ission0r must kno\V that they are not going to get the ordinary farmer to n1ake a return and pay a license feo or take, anv ncti<:c whatoYor of the matter. 'l'hov will not do

it, and it is un~·casonable to rn.W a.m.] expect them to do it. Why

then bother to put it in the Dill and make a lot of unnecesc.,ny regulations? It will not bring in rr.ore revenue to any groat extent, and· it will mean a lot 1nore work and well paid clerks. A lot more

Water Bill. [5 OCTOBER.) Water Bill. 887

billets will be cr.eated, but the provisions of the clause will be totally ignored, and. the Minister knows it, and the Comm!SSloner must know it, too. If they do not, they e-re not fit for their jobs.

:Mr. FEY (Kuril1w): Is the :Minister propared to advertise in the " Producer" the provi-;ions of this clause as it stands? If he is, I shall be glad to. stand L .. and watch the fun. because I take 1t that no farmer m the length and breadth of Queensland woald give h~~n a mon1cni's co!1sid~_l:r:,tion or support. I know that by this Bll1 t~10, Comn;;s. sioner hop< s to se•.'tn·e the fullest m10rmat10n about ou1· '\~. atcr supplicJ; Lut in pursuit. of that· object he is pasoing from the sublime to the ridiculous. This clause gives him the powers of an autocrat and the right to make the whole thing ridiculous. Under it no farmer can do anything at all about water supplies "·hich fall from the heavens or can bo obtained fron1 a,ny other source, unless he first gets the permission of the Commissioner-and by the Commissioner I mean the Minister. bccausC' the Bill gives him the final "av. I have seen far1ncrs n1aking '\Yells '"ith th'c'r own labour Lecause thPy are not in a position to pa:,' for outside labour: but undc'r this Bill such farnH\rs \vill l1avc to construct wells as thev are told and bv the labour which is given" to thc1n. That ffieans at least twenty inspectors throughout the State, "/ith salaries of probably from £300 to £500 each. It is going- to be a costly thing-, aEd somebody will have to pay for it.

The SECRETARY FOR P CBLIC LANDS : I can assure you that it will not be so.

111'. FRY: It will b(' necessary, if we are to judge from this clause. Looking at it from the ridiculous standpoint, it means that no man can build a fishpond in his backyard unless an inspector comes along and tells him how to go about it. It means that no c'Otmgstcrs can dig a pot-hole without coming under the control of the Minister. That is autocratic and ridiculous at the same time. The Commissioner has a right to obtain r< cords of the deep water supplies, but it becomes ridiculous ,,.hen the Minister seeks to give him control over all other sources.

Then there is the point raised by the hon. member for East 'I'oo>voomba. who pointed out that. if a farmer fails to compl! with the prm'isions of the clause. a police magistrate mav order his well to be filled in and dismantled. On what grounds? As ono gentleman said to another at. a gathering the other day, "vVe do not knmv everything, not even the youngest of us" ; and very frequpnth the police me gistratcs who will deal with m:~ttors of this sort will l:c ver,., young. If the Minister is prepared to publish clause 55 in the "Producer" and clrcu1at._:o it. throaghout Queensland. I am prepared to stand by and view the fun.

Mr. SW AYXE (Jiimni): It 1s a matter for regret that the :\finistcr has not accopted the amendment. I \vish to cmphosise that the criticism from this side has not been duo to party spirit but has come from practical men. v ho realise that this is a Yory important Bill and that it is our duty to imprnve it in the interests of th8 n1an on the land. It is absurd to compel a person to applv to Brisbane for a permit to carry out l'crv little joh in connection with a wcJl. or be subject to a. pen;llty of .£25 per

day for eycr,v day he is in dcfa ult. . The Minister intunatod that we could not sm[rle out the sub-artesian source of supply for f':-;:.cnlption and not cxompt other ;.ourccs. The general attitud,• of the 011poeition is that in conr:·.ct1on \vlth a national supply of ,,.at€'r, such as flo·1\ ing strcarn :, artesian well~. etc., it is desirable to hnxe some non~ trol. but it is most unL,ir to apply such re(rulations to t'Yt"rv littl{ rurc of \\"atcr supply that an individual may open up for himself. The sub-artc~ian \\ uls 111 ruy d_tstrict COL.18 into that category. I ar1 qu1to sarr th.tt a gTeat nun1ber of iYells Fsrving a laro'e nun1bcr of cattle in n1y electorate \VOuld not have bcr-n put do\vn if such a provision as this had be m on the stututc-book at the tirno. I hone that the r,linistcr will :--et r0cognisc th~t ihe advice of the Oppo ·ition is basc·d on the carn0.st dr.,.lro to mnke the meast:re a better one, and al'·O that the adYicc emanates frorn pnu:-tical 111on who know "·hat they are talking aLout. If the Bill goes through unalt"red in this respect, it will simplv bo furthc·r proof to the electors of Queensland of the eYil of tru'ting the control of important public affairs to the hands of unpractical men.

:\Jr. W. A. RCSSELL (Dalb!'): I would like the Minister to say whether clauoe 58 will permit a settler 'to de open his . well \\ ithout first obtaining cx:pre---s porrnrs:uon from the Comrnissionor. lf that is so, then this clause is not so drastic: as hon. members on this side seem to think.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC LA::\'DS (Hon. 'I'. Dunstan, Gympic): Under clause 53 in any case of emergency a selerto:r 'vill ha Ye the. pmyer to carry out that work without sC'cking expre'3s pcrmiss:~on fron1 the Commissioner or the MinistN to do so.

Question-That the words proposed to be omitted in clause 55 (Jir. ('orscr's amendment) stand part of the clause-put; and the Committee divided:-

Mr. BarbPr 11edford Rertram Bruce Collins Dash Dunstan Farrell Ferricks

, Foley Gledson Hanlon Hanson Hartley Hynes

A.YES. 30

:Mr. T.arcorn be :\I cCormack McLach]an Mullan O'Keefc

,, Payne PcasP Riordan H:-·an, IT. J. Smith Ptopford \Yeir 'Yilson \Yinstanlcy Wright

Tellers: Mr. Bnwe ami :rr. H_yncs.

Mr. Rarnes, G. P. , Barnes, W. H.

Bell Brand

,, Clayton Corscr Costello Dc·n.Pon "Rrlwn.rcls Frv Ke.rr

, Kmg

;.,-OES, 21,

l\Ir. T.ogan Maxwell l\loore

,, Morgan ="'ott Petf'rson J?oberts IhtSf-f'll, H. JYI.

, ::::wayne Tavlor

, Walker

Tdlers; )Jr. Cos!ello :-PH1 11r. Deacon,

PArRS. A YES, XOEf'.

Mr. Llev;·eJ:rn :\!r. ;\ 11fWl , Kirw~'n .. El nhin~tone , Pol!rH'k ., t--lzer

Resolved in the affirmatiYc.

Hun. 1'. Dunstetn.]

888 TVatu Bill. [ABSK\IBLY.] }Vater Bill.

Mr. MO ORE (i! ub,:r;ny): I beg to move th0 following amendment:-

". \fter line 41, page 21, insert the following new paragraph:~

Provided that a license to sink, enlarge, d0epcn, or alter a sub-art0sian well will be required only within such districts as may be proclaimed for that purpose by Oeder in Council."

1'he Commissioner at present has power to declare the whole of Qneensland to be under his juriedi'Ction. If the objective is to control sub artesian waters where artesian waters have ceased to flow. without interfering with or·dinary household suppliesinstances of w hi eh can bo found at Toowoomba, Home Hill, Ayr, and other places, where nearly evervbody has a supply-then the hon. gentleman has the opportunity under this amondmen t to declare such a district to be exempt. In districts whore control will be of no ad\·anta!le to the district or to the Commissioner such districts need not be defined and can go on as at present. If the Minister finds after .a certain amount of o"'perience that it IS

necessary to proclaim other districts he can do so; but until the districts arc> dt clared, they can remain as at present. This pa'l·agraph will not apnly at all to the artesian country, because those di,.::tricts arP a1rcadv proclaimed. I t•rust that the Minister will accept the amendment, as it will do awac· with a lot of unnecessarv trouble. I quite agree with the hon. member for Cunningham that the Bill is going to be more honoured in the breach than in the obsc'l'vance. Ninctv-nine people out of every hundred certainlv will not take anv notice of it, and, if they want to deepen their bores, they will do so.

Mr. MORGAX: There IS a £500 penalty provided.

Mr. MOORE: Thev will know perfectly well that no Govr•rilment would dare to inflict such a penalty because they found it necessary to deepen the sub-artesian bores.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympie): I do not think that the amendment ;\Ould achieve the object the Leader of the Opposition desires, because. even if it were inserted the Government could pror:him the whole Btak as coming under the provisions of the Act.

Mr. MOORE: You could, but I do not suppose you would do it.

i\1r. ;\,fonG.\N: VVe would not expect you to be so silly.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: The purpose of the Bill is to control the whole of the natural Wfdrrs of the St1te and I see no i'OOd reason for accenting the amendment. I pronase by an addition to clause 62 to make clear the question of the use of sub-artesian suppliE"' for domestic purposes.

Mr. MooRF.: Do you call watering stock domestic purposes?

The SECRETARY FOR I>UDLIC LA~DS: No.

i\Tr. MooRE: NearlY overvbodv who has a domestic supplv has 0: cow ;r a ·hors~.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLW LANDS: Some hon. members argued that the clause will interfere with wells m·er which there is a windmill, or with some other source of supply in a backyard in town areas.

[1ll'r. JJfoore.

Mr. MoonE : So it wilL

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: In order to make the position clear in that respect I intend to insert an amendment at the end of clause 62.

Mr. MORGA~ (Jiurilla) : I am surprised at the explanation of the Minister. It is a most reasonable amendment, but the Minister says he cannot accept it because the Bill gives the Commiss;oner power to declare the whole of Queensland to be a water area. \Vo do not expect the Commissioner or the s,·crctary for Public Lands to do any such thing. Vv"e expect them to have common sense. The idea is that the amendment should apply to districts where only subartesian water is known to exist, and not to districts where arte,ian water is known to exist. \Ve claim that the Government have no more right to control sub-artesian water used on a farm for stock and domestic purposes tban they have to control sub-artesian vvatcr in a town area, ·where it is u~ed for domestic purposes. To show the ridiculousness of the argument put forward by the Minister, I would point out that in a hotel yard in a town there may be a sub-artesian well or bore upon vvhich there is a windmill or pump erected, and it may be pumping twice as much water per clay and the hotelkeeper may be using twice as much \\ ate1· for watering stock and domestic purposes as ;, obtained from a similar bore on a small farm a quarter of a mile away. Yet the Government are going to exempt the man who has the hotel. He will not have to register, while the man who has a farm a quarter of a mile away i, to be compelled to register and to pay a, fee, and he is going to be liable to a penalty of £500 if he deepens his well or bore without permission. If that is not differential treatment and n1aking ono la\v for ono section of the community and another law fm· another section, I do not know what is.

In measures which he is introducing this se'"sion the 2t1inister is ve11alisjng the man on the land eyery time, and that is going to drive men off the land. If it is right that a man with a sub-artesian Lore on a farm should have to register anJ be subject to this Bill when he uses the water for stock and dmnestic purpoS('s. th0n any ot}H'r person, cay in a hotel, who is using water fo1· stock and domestic purposes with similar pun1ping apparatus shonltl also con1o unde~· the Bi]] in nrdcr to make it fair. If we ar<' going to havn a law for one srction only and not apply it to people in another walk of life, thr·n the Minister will lw f!Uite within his rights in bringing· in tl1e clause; but, if we nro g-oing· to hayc control oyer \vatel~ faci litics, it shonld l>o controlled all over or d-~ not at all. The ame-ndment of the Lcadcl' of the Opposition will get over tlu· clifficultv, because it will mean tbat in districts ,~·hero control bv the Commis.Jioner ;, not necc"'ary the proyisions of the Act need not ho anplied. \Ye have similar provisions in other Acl·;;; undrr wh1c-h district'< arc proclaimed. En'n under this Bill t.hero arc certain proYisions vvhich a pplv only to districts wbich arc proclaimed by the Uommissioner. I hope th~ Minister will ac ~ept the amendment., which i·• si1ni!ar to other proYisions in the Bill under \Yhich the Minister has po·ser to say whether or not they shall be r'nforccd in certain districts.

!Vater Bill. [5 OcTonEn.] Water Bill. 889

idr. SW A YNE (.}I iran i) : The amendment will meet most of the objcrtioll', which havT been rnadc by hon. rnernbcrs on thi.;; sidtl to the clause as it stauck The ::\Iinistcr apparently asks uJ to r0ly on \Yhat is likt~1y to bo done in the future, Once tho Bill is on the statute-book nothing· that (h,J Minister sa vs in thi,; debate ,'ill c1en' anv \\-eight i.n a {'Ourt of law, as ·lH' A·::t \>ill b~· intcrpretPd according to its wordillg. tht=:re~ fore tho Opposition are justified in insi8ting. as far as they are able, that en·ry desirable umcndmc11t to safeguard the rights of those who use water shall br, iHclL!Clcd in the Bill itself. Y cry often hon. nH'mbcrs a re> led away bY the good intentions Pxpressod by the Minister in charge of the Bill: bnt, as I have pointed out, they are not worth the paper they are printed on afterwards if the~· are not contained in the measure il:-L•If.

Mr. KOTT (Stanliy): I ap]Wal to the ]\[inistcr to accept the amendment of the Leader of the Opposition, as by ''J doing it will ensure the giving of duP notice to people in certain localities that the,· have been brought under the Art. There arc a gTeat many localities in Que<'nsland whc're at the present time, keeping the dcv£'lopnlt'l1t of Qu0cn~Ia:nd in vielv. it may perhaps not bo dcsirablP to bring in these conditions, and the JWoplc tlwrP ,hould be allowed to dcvPlop thL' country by putting down what bores the;; think best-lc·aving tlwm free in the mattPr, The notification of the localities which arc likclv to cornP under thP Act will rentind the people in those areas that the .\et applies to them, and thrrt it will be inenrnLent upon tlwrn to rpgist('r urHlPr H I a1n quitP slUt'

that in 1nany loea1itic~ a good 112 noon] many veople will not apply for

registration, but '~ill go ahead f'Onstructing ·an1all J.an1s and 11ntting· down \Yells "ithout applying to thP Commissiorwr· at all: and, if it is found really desirable to control the water supply in an: particular nrea, it is on1:v fa.ir th<Jt a notification to that 0ffcct should be published.

:'IIr. ED\YARDS (Xananr!Q): 'l'hc "mcndn1ent is very reasonable. It. simply· mean~ that the whole po irion in rc'iard to sub:-trtPsian wells in anv 1ocnJit~,7 vvill be revie1YCcl beforE' rcn Order in. Courccil is issued. \Vh0n tho hon. nwmber for Dalbv "sk<>d tlw MinistPr whether per·mission t~ dcepnn wells would havo to be o],tninod from the Commrsswner, the 1\linister r0plied ddinitely that in a cn:,e of e1ner,rrcncv thP landholders) \'.'Ould be allowed to do it "·ithout pormissiorl. \Yho is to dceide what is a Nsc of 0n1crgcncy an cl \vhat is not·~

The TE:\IPORARY CHAIR MA~: Order'

1\fr. EDIVARDS: I am mini!; that argun1cnt in ref:ard to the arncndrnent. I do not thi1'k th0 JYrinistor realise,. the number of sn1al1 '\vclls then' arc. and v;hat it will n1°an to a ok the pconlc who own tlll'm, and who have obtained them under vPrv different coniiition~. to rr.~i~tcr thcn1 and a'sk for per~ n1ission to deepri1 thc1n \YhencvPr thev wish. On some selection~ thero are as many as four or fi,·e wells or dams, although tho area mav be ou'tn small, and everv effort ehould be made to epe that farmer> 'i~t water with as little interfcrc>nce as po''~'ible.

Mr. FRY (J1w //pal: The amendment is a r0aso11able one. S11ch a rcf.{ulation as this should certainly be notified in the " GovernmeEt Gazette " before it is imposed in any

district. It certainlv will not be sufficient to impose tho provisions of the Act without due notification, seeing the extent to which ilwy can go. As I said previously, I would like to seo it advertised in the "Producer" also. The Minister would be well advised u accept the amendment; it is not a party n1attcr. The Governrnent cannot gain an7 kudos from pas"ing the Bill as it is. As a matter of fad, the clause "ill be very diffi"ult to administer, and I think the Governnwnt would be wise to giv-e it as much puhlicity as possible.

(iuostion-That the words proposed to be inserted in clause 55 (,}Ir. Jloore's arnend· mtnt) be so inserted-put; and the Cam· mittee divided:-

AYES, 23. Mr. Barnes, G. P. , !sarnes, W. H. , Bell , J3rn,nd , Clayton

Corser , Costello , Edwards , Fry ., J(prr , King , Logan

Mr. JfaxweU Moo re

, Morgan Kott Peterson

, RobPrts , Tiussell, H. M. , Hussell, Vi/. A. ., Swayne , Taylor

Walker

Tellers: Mr. L0gan anct Mr. H. JI. Ru~~f·li.

NOES, 3'!.

Mr. Barber Bedford Bertram Bruce Bulcock Collins Dash

Mr. T.arcombe , Llovrl

:u cCorm ack McLRchlnn Mnllan O'Keefc Pa.yne Pease , Dnnstan

Farrell Ferricke Foley Gledson Hanlon 1hn..,nn Hartley IIynes

I~ iordn n Hyan, H. J. Smith Stopford Weir Wi!son "\Vinstanl0y Wright

Te/le!'s: }lr. Foley a!l<l }fr. \Yright.

A\ 1<,.;:,

Jil·. ApJlCl , F]phinstone .. ~ize1·

, DPaeon

PATHS. :'\'nE~.

)fr. Llnwp]yn Klrw11l1 ]lollnc~k

Conroy

Re>olved in the negative.

:Yir. CORSER (Burnett): I bog to move the following amendment:-

" On line 45, page 21, omit the word' five'

aJl[l insert the word' one.'''

The object of the amendment is to rcduc<> the penaltv from £500 to £100, becau''" a penalty of £500 is exorbitant. Some of these penalties arc in relation to provrsrons with which the Opposition disagrtc. They are nenalties for failure to observe certain conditions, which will result in the taking aiYaV f.ro1n the individual rights that he not only possesses to-dc,y hut for which he has paid. If a penon offends against any of thos~ provisions, he will be subject to a penalty not exceeding £500_. The offcn~e which will be committed wrll be small 111

comparison to the fine that it is nroposed to inflict. and, as it is essential that S!1bartosian bores should have some relatwn with the artesian, we think it reasonable

JJ1r. Corser.]

890 Water Bill. [ASSE1'.1I3LY.] Water Bill.

that the Minister should ·reconsider the penalty.

The SECRETARY FOR FU13LIC LANDS CH·on. T. Dun:-:,tall, (-}yrn}Jir'): This rn:ttt"r was practically dealt with in a previous clause which dealt with penalties for contraventions of the Act. It is a most im~;Odunt prov1s1on, !or there may be cases of deliberate contravention inYolyjng darnage to the int0rcc,i,; of other landholdcrs. In such instances a heavy penalty is es<cntial. and should be made sufficwntl;; lare;c to f1t the crime.

Mr. MORGAl\ (3:furilla) : It is all very well fcT the Minister to m'''ko the statement he has done, but the magi tnite or percon adjud)cating on such a breach, nn con'iult1ng the Act, would say that the Legislature intended to inflict such a penalty; and he would not think of imposing a penalty of £5 or £10 when this clause states that it shall not cx:ceed £500. He would not go below £25, and £25 would be an cxc•'c•sive penalty to inflict upon somebody who had taken some such action with a sub-artesian bore. There should be provision for the two separate soarces of wat(>r supply, because thcv are quito di.,tinet. Possibly the penalty might not bo exce~sive if i~ applied . to a man who put down an artesian bore, mtcrfering with his neighboms and perhaps ruining the efficacy of a bore that had bee_n sunk at an expenditure of £10,000. As Jt is, it is possible to inflict a penalty of £500 and a further daily penalty not exrcDdmg £25 on some inoffensive settler who may have put down a sub-artesian well of 20 feel in depth. That is excessive, and as we. have no House of review, we should he particular when dealing with penalties. \Yhcn the Bill is passed by this Chamber there C•lll be . no redress. I-Iad the-ro been a clause relatJng to sub-artesian wells, stipu_lating a penalty of £100 and £5 a day, 1t would not be so bad.

Mr. TAYLOR (Windsor): I draw ~he attention of the Minister to clause 15, wh1ch reads-

" (1) During the eurrcacy of any license no alterations other than repairs or alterations neces3RrY for the maintcnar:co of the work in goo'd order or on account of anv sudden or unforeseen emergency, shall 'be made in or in comwdion with the work":

Tt goes on-

" (2) Any pc1·son who contravenes this E.C>ction or contravenes or fails to carr.v out anv conditions of any license sh~ll be liabk to a penalty not exceeding ~50 nnd a fnrth ·r dailv penalty not cxcoodmg £5: and in addition to t.:lc impmition of the said pena"lty, thn license f''"c-. b' nof ce in the " Gazette " be canrdlod and annulled by the Commissioner."

It is rather rcmr,rkable that practically a :-;i1nilar proYision to the one contained in the chu.:::.p. we ;:~re dl·"cPssing- 8hou1d appear also in clause 15 and that there Ghould be such a discroparcy in the penalties. I wnuld like sO-.-ne cxrllanation fronr the Minister as to why that is "''· It seems to me tho two offences arc on the nmo !m-cl. vPt the moxi"lum pcnc.ltv in t.ho one cc se is £50 and in thP otllC'r £500. I can discover no reason for tho anon1 alY. If one infrjngo~ 1n0I1t is ,;-crious, p.8 is the L other.

[Mr. Cor.w:r.

:\ir. SWAYJ\iE (Jlirani): I certainly think the point c11un1crated b\- the hon. n1cmbors f,Jr I'.vlurilla ~nd \Yind~or are worth~' of consideration. This penalty of £500 is a stagger :r when it ~pplies ~o tho le~ ;;nr wa_tc1 supplies. \Yhen ~t applle~. to a. runtung stroarn or an artesian borr• ch.scha.rg1ng large t uautities of Y\'ater-i·o a. sapply of water ,t hich mav be described as national-the pcnaltv is ~JOt too great; but, when it applies to an~' l\yopcnny-halfpenny . diort on" tlw nart of a man to saYc hv !'('J~-k, It IS

(·ert~iuly a staggprcr. Th0rc sl_1ould b~ sorne discrimination. It i~ another Illustration of the want of practical knowledge on the part of mcnlb,!rs of the pres0nt Uovonnnent. A practinl man would at OLce s~e that there is a di,,tinction between tLc lwo SOlll'Cl'" of v ttcr supply; a,nd. while the penalt.J: provided in the one case JS r<'asonable, m the oth01" case it is not. All •n• ask i.; that a Cf~rtain an~ount of \visc discritnination should be used.

Mr. G. P. BARXES (H"1mcick): It must be patent to an.' one who gives the slightest consideration to the matter that the draftmg of th<1 Bill has been faulty, othenvise .no attempt would have been made to brmg tmder the same clause those who have artesian wells and those who have subartesian wells. There is no affinity hctwccn the two sources of wate·r supply. A penalty of £500 in connection with an artesian well may be ail right, as an artesian well m~y serve 1nanv rniles of country, whereas In the case of a sub,artesian ;ve'll the position is a ltoo-ethcr differE'nt. It sc•crns to me that ciistinction shoul·d be made between artesian and sub-arteo.ian wells. If penalties are to be inflicted. let the muximnm penalty remam in ~onnection with artesian wells, but let the maximum penalty in connection with sub-artesian wells be placed at a much lower figure. If the ::VIinistcr does not ac.cept_ the amendment I trust that he will brmg- m a further ar{1endment making thn higher penalty applicable only to artesian water supplies<

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympil): In reply to the hon. member for Windwr, I _would point out that the penalty proVIded m clause 15 relates onlv to alterations ·in lieen .. ed works or contravention of licens,'s. and not to the deepening or alteration of bo~c~. I shot~ld like perrni'Sion to postpone th1s clan'·, w1th a Yiev,· to drafting an amendn1cnt to differentiate between the penalties rep:arding sub~artosian and arte~ian 1vater suppli·~8. The amendment as at present proposed ;VJll not do that.

.\mendment and clause postponed.

Clause 56-" LicnL'es; Period of license: lJcncfit of lic,n.leS "-

::\Ir. CORSER (lJurnctt): Subclause (4) reads-

" The license, if granted, shall be l':l'antcd for a period fixc.d by. the Con;; 1nissioner, but not cxceed1ng ftve years.

The Committee have already agreed to a_n an1cnd1uent jn a preYious clause n1aking It tr:n V('ars. I, therefore, beg to rnovo tho follo~Yin<:; a1nendmcnt :-


and insert the word' ten.'"

Water Bill. [5 0CTOB1CR.) Water Bill. 891

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLlC L\~DS : I accept that.

Amendment pir. Corser) agreed to.

Mr. LOGA:'f (Lockyer): I beg to move the folJm, ing amendment-

" On lines 27 and 28. page 22. after the '<Yord-

' license' omit the words-

' for any like further period of not exceeding five years.' "

I move the amendment on the ground that it is unnecessary to provide for a further application after the first period. The Minister previously agreed to the deletion of the term of live years in subclause (6) of clause 12, and I would be ~tlatl if he would agree to the deletion of the words I suggest.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLlC LAXDS : I will accept the amendment.

Amendment p11·. Loyan) agreed to.

:\Ir. LOGA)J (Lockyer) : I beg to move the follm•. ing further amendment-

" On lines 29 to 31, page 22, omit subclause (5) reading-

' A license shall be issued or renewed only on payn1ent to the Com1nissioner of such fee as may Le prc.srribod.' "

move the deletion of this snbclause as it is u:nnece",~ary.

Amendment (Jir. Logan) negatived. Clause 56, as amended, agreed to. Clause 57-" Existing art" sian and sub

artesian 1cells to b.c liccnscd")-

Mr. NO'TT (Stanley) : I consider that this ·clause is cntir£'ly unnecessary. It is advisa blo to delete the whole clause in order that those who have been imprO\'ing and developing their properties and doing what they can for the development of Queensland should be given a free hand and not be forced to comply with these regulations.

There should be no need to ask people to apply for licenses in respect of work they have already started. The,- have started it in a bona fide manner under the existing l>:w, and it is only right that they should be allowed to complete it without application to the Commissioner or becoming subject to this Bill. Many men who will be affected

may have spent a considerable fl2.30 p.m.) amount of money; yet for some

rea~on the Comn1issioner mav consider it inadvisable to allow them to preened._ with the result that they will be faced with a tremendous loss. The expenditure of that monev mav have meant all the difference beb·een st!ccess and failure; and, if such a man is prevented from going on with his \York, he ma_. be affected very adversely. In the interests of the rights of people ·.dw arc already developing their properties, the Minister would be well advised to consent to the elimination of the clause. It could easily bo done without emasculating the Bill to any extent, and it would give e~ sense of security to those who have already spent money in sinking wells or mak111g dams.

The SECRETJ.RY FOH PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gyrnpi<): I cannot agree to the hon. member's proposal. It is no uso reiterating the arguments which have

already been presented on clauses 11 and 55. If this clause were omitted, the Bill would bo contradictory.

Mr. 1\IORGA::\ (Jiurillo): \Ye have no objection to this clause applying to artesian well· .. or bores, but we have a rooted objection to its application to other works which may have been constructC'd during the last lift-' or sixty years. If the clause could be so worded that it woultl apply only to artesian \vater, which has been covered b';· the existing Act for the laot liftc>cn or sixtef'n years, not much harm would be done; but it is repudiation of the v-ery worst kind to ask people who have constructed subartesian bore'\, made dams, or put obstruc~ tions across \vafcrcourscs jn order to conserve water-all of which has bre11 clone in accordance with the law of the land-to come along now and register that \YOrk rrnd pay a fee. r_rhat is nothiug more or less t.nan putting a penalt, on progress and initiative. ·

The SECRETARY FOR PcnLIC LAXDS : \V e have already agTcocl in clause 11 that the Dill shall apply to works alreacl:-· con· structed.

Mr. 1\IORG);I\: There i~ a vast difference, but we did endeav-our in that clause to have the \vords " is conBtl'ucted or used or" omitted. That wonld have meant that clause 11 would not apply to any- work alr<'ldy constructed. :\"ow we arc endeavouring to get a similar conce83ion in this clause. This clanse will serve no good purpose but will cause a great amount of trouble and inconvenience, especiall:;, to those \vho carried out certain \YOrk prior to the int-roduction of this measure anJ \Yh03C efforts are novv being repudiated.

:\fr. S\VA Y='JE (Jfimni) : A v-en· big principle is invol-n:d in this clau:·<J, which is of a rctrospcctiYe nature, and r{'trospcr:tivo measures he1v-e done much to check progress in Queensland already. It means that, no rna tter '"hat expense m a,. be incurred or what effort' may be put forth in a perfect!;· legal manner at a certain time subject to no penalty and no disability, thC>:, can in a few years be plaeccl in extreme jeopardy. It means that the result of all efforts to ~ecurc a vvater supply, perhaps as a result of years and years of self-denial, will be placed under tho rontrol of tl·o Commissioner, an.} may be confiscated by him. \Vhile there may be some injustice in connection with the artesian supply, it is nccc_,~:::!lrv that such a ~ourcc ~lLJU1d be subject to "very c~reful control. The criticism and objections of the Opposition bave not bPC:l directed a"ai!lRt the a1tcsian supply: but, whC'n a proYi'ion like this is applied to CYC'r,\· effort, and Yerv oftnn Ycry costly dforts, and applied rctro_.pectively, it is dangerous leg-islation, and such has retarded progrc3s in Queensland in tho pasi.

1\Ir. G. P. BARNES (Trrmcick): Ko person pu.se·osing a knowledge of water conservation '' ould dream of bringing in an all· rour;d cl::u1s0 Fke this. On ''11V r. n pl·onr>rty at Mount Tabor, near Warwick, I have three dams within half a mile. It would be absurd to place the control of the artesian water supply or anything connected with fouch a supply in a clause dealing v.rith the contrbl of dams construct:~d here and there. The argument used by hon. members on this side is that thNo is no

JJlr. G. P. Barnes.j

892 Water B1ll. [ASSEMBLY.] Water Bill.

analogy between the two sources of supply. Only the other day I ordered the scoop,, to be put into m:v dams to cler,n them out. If this c1a use is pa"ed, I shall not bo able to carry out any such \\ ork without first seeking permission from tho Commi"''sioner. Carrying it to a further point of absurdity, this clause could be made to apply to persons Y\~ho have a wat('r supply conserved in galvani~ed iron tank~. Th~ ~\vho1e clause is un\r·orkable and unreasonable, and should b0 reconsidered. It might be applinble to artesian water supplies, but it certainly should not be considered applicable for ono moment in connection \vith water consorYa~ tion of any other kind or nctture. Thorp is also the interference with existing conditions which has been referred to. II ugc sums of monc_y have been expended in connection with '' ater conservation, and the owne1· now mcldenly finds that this water i.s not his property at all, and that, tl he requirC'·· even to carry out some little impl'Ovcment such as d<•aning a dam, he must first rwply to the Conunissi-oner for per1njssion to Carry it out. The thing is ridiculous.

Mr. MOORE (Aubigny): This clause is a n1ost extraor·dinary one becauso it goes so far. lL says that it is to apply to an artesian or a sub-arte-sian '"·ell " or any other work of water conservation." That includes the ordinary domestic tank supply. On clause 11 the following- amendment was moved:-

" Provided that this section shall not apply to any land not exceeding ono acre in extent which is used solely for a dwelling-house for the owner or occupier thereof."

The clause does not say that it applies to a wPll, dam, or rese-rvoir, but to any work at all in the nature of water conservation. Surely the Minister does not mean the Bill to apply to the ordinary conservation of water in connection with a dwelling-house m· :m underground tank ! At prc•>cnt m·er. artesian bore has to be registered. The Gove-rnment possess all those registrations, and before any person can sink anv further artesian or sub-artesian bore, he has to take out a license and be registered. This clause seeks to deal with any source of supply about a farm. There arc many conservations of water of which the owners cannot g·ive any particulars because the work was ca·rried out many years ago. The clau•P will, th<'refore, be of no advantage to the department, whilst it will be a nuisance to the people concerned who have to s0nd in the returns. What good is it going to do? It is an absurdity. In cases where clams, tanks, and reservoirs were sunk or constn1cted fifty or sixty years ago, no information will probably be obtainable. ::Yiany of their owners do not know what strata were met with when they were sunk, or the depth of water in them. What good, therefore, will this clause be to the department? It is unreasonable to expect owne,rs of ,uch wa tor supplies to comply >vith all these provisions. I can quite understand the Minister requiring information concerning artesian supnlics.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC L.\NDS: Your thunder destroys all your own argument.

Mr. MOORE : Why tho neep,,sity for this clause when you have the information you w<Int already?

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LAXDS : YOU want soma registered and some unreo,-istered.

LJir. G, P. Barnes.

Mr. MOORE: I do not desire that. I desire that artesian supplies should be registered bee a use they arc totally different to the supplies I am dealing with. Under this clause a man who has a tank or a dam on his property will have to apply for a Ecense within six months. The clause covers every source of water conservation, whether for commercial or domestic use. Even the tank supplies in connection with the dwellings in Brisbane are 1vator conservation, and will come under this clause.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LAXDS: I have an amendment to move which will clear up any ambiguity.

Mr. MOORE: The Bill as it stands provides for all these things. If the Minister exempts da1ns, reservoi,rs, and tanks, there will not be much harm in the clause, but, as it stands, this wholesale olartso will compel men to register every possible means of water conservation, and will reduce the Bill to an absurditv. I can see no advantage to be gained. The Bill alre,ady provides for what the Minister wants, and this provision merely harasses individuals having any sort of water supply.

Question-That clause 57, as read, stand pa,rt of tho Bill-put; and the Committee divided:-

~Ir. Barber Bedford BPrtram

, Bruce Bulcock Collins

., Cooner, W. Dash Dunstan FarrPII Ferricks

., FolPy Glerlson Banlon Hanson

1\fr. Hvncs r~:.ucombe Mcl.achlan l\l111lnn O'Krefc PuYne Pe;,_e n iordan

., Hyan, H . • T. Smith

.. 8topford \Veir

, \\""p]lington \Vilson

, \Vinstanley , Wright , Hartley

'Tellers: :Mr. IIanson and }fr. )Jci.Jachlan.

Mr. narnPS, n. P. , Rarnes, W. H.

Bell Brand'

, Clayton Cors<>r Costrllo F.dwards Fry T\r>rr King Logan

Xo:r:s. 2.3. Mr. )faxwell

l\I oore ., Morgan

Nott Peterson I~ obr-r ts

,. Huseeli, IT. :>I. , FuSRcll, W . .I. , Swayne

TaYlor Walker

Tellers: Mr. Brsnd ~nd )..Jr. \LA .Itn:-.~Pll.

PAIB~. XoE~. AY:Es.

..'\!r. I~Tewehn Kiru-~m

Pollock :: Conr y

Mr. Ap11Pl

, Joncs

, E\p! instmw S'zpr n~··.~nn

., ·warren

Re-solved in the affirmoti,-e,

Clauses 58, 59, and 60, agreed to. Clause 61-" TVaste of water of m·tesian

1Dfll'i"-

Mr. NOTT (Strrnley) : I beg to move th& following amendment:-

" On line 1, page 24, omit the word' twenty'

and insert the word' five.'"

Water Bill. [5 OcTOBER.] Water Bill. 893

This is another instance where \VC consider the penalty provided is so mew hat excossi ve. A penalty of £5 would be quite adequate to meet the case, and I trust the Minister will accept the amendment.

Amendment (Jf r. N ott) negatived. Clause 61 agreed to. Clause 62-" Supply of surplus water"-

Mr. MORGX"' (lJfurilla): I beg to move the following amendment:-


and insert the word-' one.'''

In this clause. as in claubce 55, a maximum penalty of £500 and a daihc penalty of £25 are provided for a contravention of the provisions of the clause.

Tho SECRETARY FOH I'U3LJC LAJ\'JJ~) (Hon. T. Duns tan, Oympir): To conform to amendments to be movecl later in postponed clause 55, I propc,c to mm·c the insertion after the word " liable" on line 14, page 25, of the ·words "in the case of an artesia11 wc•ll."

l\Jr. l\IORGAK: That will obviate rnv tlmcndmont. I now desire to withdnn1· m~- amendment.

Amendment (Jir. '1Iorgan). h,v leave, \vithdra\vn.

The SECRETAHY FOR Pl'DLIC LA::\'DS (Hon. T. Dumtan. Oympie): I bog to mOYI'

the follm•·ing amendment:-,,On ljne lL page 25. nfte1 the y,·ord~

' liable,' insert the ·words-

' in the case of an artc.::-ian \Yell.' :' This ·rill be followed by anothPr am<'ndment.

.An1cndmcnt agreed to.

The 1'\ECRETARY FOR l'FBL!C' L.-\:'\DS (Hon. T. Jlumtcn, Gym,1ir): I Leg to move the follo 1 < ir:.s· a-n1"ndnu:nt: -~

"On li1H~ 16, page 25, after tlw wordpounds,'

insert the words--' [~nd in the C'asc of n well to f1 penalty not pounds and a furt11ce dail_v not exceeding fiyo poundf'.' "

Amendment agr,'cd to.

::Ylr. ROBERTS (East 'l'oou·rwmt:I): 1 noriJ' that this is the la·t c1H'1SC in P~rt YJL and the Minister indiratccl some lilllo lime ago that ho 'Vr!S going to excrnpt certain lnr:ds from the O)lf ration of th~ Biil. 'When _,-iil that come in?

The SECRETARY FOR I'rBLIC LA" u~: Almost imnwdiately.

Clause 62, as an1ended, agreed to.

The SECRETARY FOR FCDLIC L.\::\'DS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympir): I be;· to moye the following amendment:- ~

"On pag-e 25, after clan c 62, iHSCl't the fo1lowing new- clau~<' :-

' :Notwitbstrtnding an~-thing in this Act contained nonp of the. nroyision' of this Part of thi' .-\et s!~all apply to a sub-a.rtosian well the snpply of "\vatf'r from which js u:-.;:_•cl or is required for use for domestic p-'rposr,,; only.

The term " dotn<''tic purposes '' includes all the purpo,3cs for which \Vater is ordir1arih 11s0d jn or in connection with a d-vvclling-house or the land attached thereto and irnmodiateh· used 111 connect ion t 11ere-1vith.'u"

::\'ew clause ag-reed to.

f2 p.m.) Clause 63-" Interzn·l.lation "-agreed tQ.

Clatue 64-" Settler·,· 1Vatcr Conservation Fund"-

1\Ir. CORSER (JJurnctt): I would like some explanation from the Minister with regard to this clause, which is rather important, particularly with regard to sub-artesian >Yatcr. It proYicles :-

" For the purposes of this Part of this Act thoro shall be ere a ted at the Treawry a fund, to be called ' The Settlers \Vater Conservation Fund,' to which »hall he eredited-

(i.) All moneys app,;'opriated by Par-liament ....

I 1Yallt to knov~ ... '.Vhether any provision i~ being rnado for a vote by Parliament for the c'tahli,hment of a fund. or \Yhether the fund is to be created onlv hv contributions fron1 the o\vners of wate1: collYeniences and license fees under the Act. Under the Upper }1urnett and Callide Land Settlement Act thoro is nrovision for a fund from which the Comnliss1oncr can draw for ·water supply purpo_ps,

Further. if a fund is crr•ated under this Bill. V\ ill advances from it bo available to ill(liyicltwls who want water supplies and haY\' 110 rnortg~tgeable assets to ac:-i~t them in g~..~tting them? To-day the greutoat need i11 land scttlemellt is finding monr,v· for those 1 ho ha.-e mortgaged all their ,\,sets to the Agricultnral Bank. \Yould a man in such a condition lw able to get the necessary advonce to c1Htbl0 him to get v·. a tor?

The SECRETARY FOR PVBLIC L\:\'DS (Hon. T. l)unstan, (}y,il])ic): A.s I stated on the s cond reading of the Bill, it is propusocl to o•,tnhli-h a fund for the purpose of providing small group or individual water "'f!p]ios._ It is not proposed immodiatolc· to approprwte any largo sum, but rathe-r to create the nucleus of a fund which mav be incrc.1sed as tim0 goes 011. I under•tanc!'that the hon. member's question has to do with the case of a man \Yho 'rants 1rater facilities, but >vho is already mortgaged up to the ]unit of his securit., .,,·ith the Agricultural Bank. and therefore if the fund will bo used to nssist a nwn who has no sceurity.

::\Ir. CORSER: That is so.

The SECRET_\RY FOR PUBLIC L.\:\'DS: That is not intended. It is onlv intended for those who have some security 'which will JUstify !he Commissioner in making an advance to enable the water facilitv to be cstabli,o,Jrcd. "

~-Ir. CORSEH (lJ11rnrtt): Th0 rr•nlv of the Minister signifies thnt the Bill \, iil bo a ~ailure and is not !1"oing- to acc01npli~h Y<'hrtt It purports to F,.t out to do. For 1nanv !'Cars our settlers haYC sought for a:,~.istanc'e t0 provide a water suppl:. to enable them to stock up to a safe capacitv. They may have possessed some mortgage ablo assets, but they are all hold by the Agricultural Bank, and, ae that institution has turned them down in

1rir. Corser.]


the past in connection with a:::. 4 istanco for a water supply, they ':Yaitod and hop<'d for a Water Bill to provide the necessary funds to gi re that assistance.

The SEC:RETARY FOR Punuc L\~D~: A water facility would improve the value of the holdirig, and therefore improve the security.

l\1r. CORSER: If that is so, then the Ap;ricultural Bank coulcl have made an ad vane 0 in the past, but it has failed to n'r0gni--o that p11nciplc. Thoro if" every nccr "Iiv for "uch a fund, but unfortunately this Biil will be a groat disappointment in that ro::-pcct. Quito rccPntly in rny O\Vll Plectoratc four, five, or six seUlc'rs appliecl for a:;-,.,istance, and pcrhap" three haYe been '"cct'sAuL I have always cont<•nclcd that a "atm· facility will create its own value. It will not only improve the '>::Curity for t}w lwnk, but it will be a greater asset fo1· the State, and probably as~ist in incro:tsing our herds. It probabl" will have the efi'ect of incrPa~ing- the carrying capacity and the , ::tlue of the "hole run to ,]oublo or treble its pre:.cnt v<Lluc.

The SECRE'rARY FOR PcBLIC L1~DQ: If that can be csLtbliched, then tht' alhann• coulcl be favourably considered.

::\Ir. CORSER: The bank has failed to recognise that pi-inciple. IJnring the intra~ ductory stages of the Bill I eaid that I was sorry that the mati,)r of aclvancos was left in the hands of the Ai!ricultural Bank. There dwu 1d be a fund >tvailable for we purpose of creating vvatcr facilities, beeau:-;e in that way it. \Yould create its O\Vn sccnrity anll woul(l he an asset 1o tho State. By increasing th·' carrying capacity it will enable the, ~cttle_r to make a living whore probablv a lrnng rs 110t posi3iblo at th,. prcsc11t tin1E". The one link lacking- in all our legislation is not provided for in the BilL If a settler has mortgageable assets, he c ,tn secure that facility; but we are not providing for the nHtn \Yho ha., exhausted a1l his mortgag( able :::ccuritit~s, and has no cattle and no ;vater to CIHJ..b\? hin1 to carr:, any cattlE_\ I an1 ~OlTV that the :1\::Iin.i~tcr has not .,..-~en the neC'Csf'it.v for 1naking this c~sential fund available. Ther . is such a fund in connection with the Upper Burnett ancl Callide land sr:>ttlcrn(~nt :::chcn1c, and \VC \Ycro told that this Bill would bo modelled on the lines of the lcfeislation defiling \\ ith the sc·ttlcment of those areas. There should be an appropriation bv Parliament each rear for the nurposc of assisting settlers under: this Bill.

::VIr. PETERSOX (XormaniJy): I am grievatbl:, disappoint.>~ with the ::\Iinister's interpretation of thrs clause. I reallv thought that the \Vater Bill wns going to be the salvation of the smaller settlers.

The SECRET,\RY FOR Pn;uc L.1"ns: So it will be.

Mr. PETERSO"\: For a. munher of : crrrs I haoce boon the repre-rmtative of l'

countrv district whose main trouble has been the lack of water facilities. Tho hon. gcntlcn1an n1ust re·d1se that his Government, liko other Governments, have launched out into land srttl0ment schen1es irrc«nective of whether there was water on the land when the selectors were placed there. Posters '\"ere exhibited throughout all the States informing prospective settlers whet money could be sccnrPd from the Agricultm'(d Bank. H the Agricultural Bank has failed, it has

[Mr. Corser.

failed in respect of water facilities. 'fh<Y bank would not advance one penny to the settler to enable him to secure his own wate.r· facilities unless there wns water of a specified quantity and quality.. He also hac! to find secm·it',' to cover rts cost. Large numbers of settlers have lost their all in endeavouring to secure \\'ate~ facilities, be~ cause, first of all, the Agncultural Bank has not been in a position under the .'l.ct to comply with their requests. If the Govern· ment desire to make settlers an asoot to this State, is it not a good business propo;ition to place them in the posi~io'! of allowing them to secure water facrhtres? The hon. member for Burnett pointed out that in the cas~ of a settler mortgaged up to the hilt to the Agricultural Bank, it would be of great advantage to the State if the appli<-ation for water f::tcilitics from that individual was satisfactorilv dealt wrth by the Commissioner. His application may be accepted, and ho 1nay have a wr..)ll or bore put down on his property. provided he has the money. Is it not a fact that a largo rmmber of ocloctions havP reverted to the GoYcrnmcnt simplv because· selectors have been unable to fim{nce their \Yater facilities? In not accepting the suggestion of the hon. member for Burnett, the l\linister is gomg to convert a large number of settlers into re·,idonts in the cities. Is it not far better to keep those people on the land, even though their sC'curities rnay be mortgaged to the bank? \Ye do not want anv more s0lectors leaving· the land and drifting to the cities. \Ve should render all po,gible assistance to keep them on the land, and one method of doing" that is to render them assistance from the fund neated under this clause. Surelv ·the Minister ''ill admit that it i, far b>tter to keen tlwm on the land! Take the Ridgelancl Soldier Settlement in m.v electorate. Quite a roumber of the fD ilures of tho;e people were due to the lack of water facilities. At Wo11,'an, Deoford, Dululu, and other parls of !ll"\. electorate people have gone off the land simply bccauso the .Agricultural Bank, although prepared to lend them money for every other purpose, turned do,yn their Rpplication for assistance to secn::_'e water unlu~s ·watf'r of a given quantity and quality vvHs firi3t obtained. I have known men who have sunk £500, £600, and P\'Cn £700 in trying to obtain a sufficient wpplv of sub-nrtcsian '''oter, and have failed, with the result that their financial resources came to an end. The Government have built railways in an attempt to open up settlement.

People ha:ve been induced to come hero and ta.ke up lend, and I have always maintained that, if we are to have successful land scttle'Tlont, the precursor to that happy state of affairs is the finding of water fac'lities. vVo do not often have th0 opportunity of embodying our sug,rcst'ons in Bills of this natun'. This is a glorious opportunity. Can the Minister not sec the wisdo,n of adopting this suggestion, not only so far as his own department is conc0rncrl. but so fa1· as the farmers and the people of QuoePsland generally aro concerned? It w<:>uH help in particular tho3e who are al "lost down and out. If e:vcr there was an opporbmity for Parliament to oter for the rcecds of a large nu'Ylber of our settlers. tbis is such an opportunitv. \Ve do not woPt to turn any more ncople off the land. There i' a largo enough drift from the land, because there is not the inducement to' take up land

Water Bill. [5 OcTOBER.] Water Bill. 895

to-day that there \Yas some years ago. \Ve need to make it more attractive, and we should gi,-e people who arc practicallj down and out through want of \V:lter facilitic.; an opportunity of establishing themselves. This is not a party matter, but purely an argument in the interests of the hon. gentleman's department, in the interests of the settlers themseh-es, and in the interests of the people of Queensland. \Ye want our l'ailways to be kept running, and we "·aut to keep every settler on the le.nd. Surch· the hon. g·entleman will admit that, if his explanation is correct, all thoie poor unfortunate people who are now mortg·aged up to the hilt to the Agricultural Bank will b2 deprived of the right of receiving benefit; under this Bill, which will not fulfil the anticipations in rcg·ard to land settlement that I had hoped for. I am one of tbo.sc who took a special delight in anticipating this Bili, and I looked forward to seeing provisions inserted that would assist the heavily mortgaged settler. L nfortunately the Minister's explanation has di-,c.ipated that view. I hope that before the clause goc s through the 1\Iini>ter will reassure hon. mcn1bers on this side by rnaking it plain that he intC'nds t') incorporate a clause whereb:- assistance will be granted through the channel of the Commissioner to those people who aro now practically do\Yn and out.

The SECRETARY FOR p·cBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dumtan, CJyrnpie): I dcoire to make it clear that the advancm from this proposed fund will not be made bv the Agricnlturnl Bank. In many casp;, the establishment of a water facility on a holding will enhance the securitv, and may doub:e or treble its value. r;, such casc-J advances would be favourablv considered. It must be obvious that advan~es cannot be made in instances where the watPr facilit-..· will not create a security OYC'l' and aboYo the existing liability on the land, and only such cases as that will be debarred. \Yhrre the proposed "atcr facility wili create an additional security an aJntnr-0 vYiU oo fayourably considered. .....\._s I ~3id previously. the:·o adv.·,nces are not n1ado by the . .:\gricultnral Dank.

Mr. 1100RE (ilubigny): It sounds all right to say that the advances arc not made by the Agricultural Bank; but the Agricultural Bank has to guarantee to the Commiesioue,- that the advance ,.-ill he repaid. That amounts practically to the sa ne thing. Provision is made that the Agricultural Bank will give " an undertaking in \Yritir:g to repay to the Commissioner the a·nount of the ccst of the works a< certifi:•d bv certificate under the hand of the Commis;ioner." That amounts almost to the same thino- as the Agricu:tural Bank advancing the mo';,ev. I not:ce in tho press an announren1ent in connection with the Upper Burnctt distri~t that an advance would be made onlv on sinkings up to 300 feet. Apparenth· if the sinking 'vcre continued to 5CO ·feet, no money would be available, and the man wonld have to find his own capital. I als~ understand that improvements only will b' taken into acccunt. Stock cannot· be hken into arcount. o£ cour3e, as they c-tnnot b~ placP I on the land until water ·is availab ]c. A man may have reached the limit of his advnnce, and then find he noecls a further advance b provide water faci:itics. If he is going to be tied up because the ~\gricul-

tural Dank ha-:, advanced the full value of the improvements already, he is going to be placed in a very awkw<rd posit on. On reading the Bill I thought the money would be made available fro n th:s fund, and, if water was not found, the expense would not be added to the liability of the individual; but, if it was found, then, irrespective of whether the limit had been reached by that man or not with the Agricultural Bank, he 1\·ould be able to secure an advance to enable him to provide water.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA!i<DS: The \Yater facility would put a r.ew value on the land.

:11r. MOORE: There alwaYS would be a new value, but the point i:s whether the Agricultural Bank would look at Jt ft--J•n that point of view. The bank has to give a definite undertaking to the Comn1is~1.on•~r that it is prepared to accept the increased liability and repay him. The Commi'·•ion<'r will not g'rant the money until the Agricultural Bank says it is prepared to accept the liability and repay it. That is "" unsatisfactory condition from the selector's point of view. I can quite sec that the Agricultural Bank wants to protect itself, but I thought this fund was to be outsitlc the Agricultural Bank, and that the 'lr-leetor v. ould not be dependent on the AgrJCult•Jral Bank gnaranteeing to repay the amout1t.

1Ir. :uORGAN (Jfurilla): I understand the 1-Iinistc-r can give the Con1n1issiulhJi" power to advance a ecrtain amount c-f n1ono~ to provide water 'On a selection [ndcpendent of whether tho Agric•lltm tl Bank is willing to take over the liability or not. Is that not what the :Vlinister wis!ws to conyey to the Committee? Subclau,,e (5) of clau,.8 66 says-

" The applicant shall giw such occurity for payment as the Minister 1nay consider necessary."

I understand from that that the MinistAr may consider the security of the \Yatcr itself. That io to say, the fact that \Yater has been provided on a block may so improve the value of that block that the added value wi!I bo sufficient security. Is that what the Ministe'r wishes to convey?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : Y os.

Mr. MORGAN: I undershnd that the ~vfinister will have . power to grant an advance if he considers the added value given to the land by the provioicn of water ~ufficient t9 meet the liability. I quite see that this Bill will provide every facilfty to the settlor obtaining money from the fund for the purpose of providing permanent water on his block, provided he has not mortgaged to the Agricultural Bank; but there is 'ome doubt in the minds of hon, members representing electorate:;, .such a9.

Murilla, Burnett, and Normanby-where there are nun1bcrs of selectors \vho are heavilY involved with the Agrccultural Bank at tho present time-as to whether those a'rcady mortgaged to the full value of their '"'ccuri!Y will be able to secu: e an advance to provide a water facility. The bank need not grant money in such case0, as it h::ts alreadv loaned a sufficient amoPnt on the block, and may be of the opinion that tho water would not warrant a further loan. Nlom· of these men have bo-·n turned down owin.g to the fact that tho bank was not

jJfr. 1Vlrrs.wn.]


sure, after the bore was sunk, th~t a reasonable supply of water would be secured. \Ye have all had experience of that. Tho Agri'cultural Bank does not look upon a subartesian bore as being an asset until a good supply of water is obtained. I. am pleased to know that, if the settler fails to obtam water the cost of the construction of the bore ;ovill be a charge upon the consolidated revenue. That is a [11'0\ ision for which \VC

on this side ha.-e fought for many years; so now the bank m a"' view the matter from a different aspect. At one time it would not look upon the sinking for a sulHtrtosian bore as security until a •reasonable supply of water was actuallv found. Under this Bill it will be assured 'that, if water is not found in sufficient quantitie;, there v:ill be no further charge made upon the assets of the particular selection. That in itself ;.ovill be a vcrv big help, although I would hkc the Minister to assure us that, \vhen people arc alreadv hc~vily mortga?:ed to the bank. indenendent of whethe·r the bank thinks the secu;ity is sufficient or not, he will b0 ~?le to advance moncv and accept rcsponsibibtv for payment. •

Th<' SErRETARY FOR PuBtrc L.ums : That is so. If they think it desirable. they can take a second mortgage.

JHr. MORGA;'\: I am glad to hear that statement as otherwise quite a lot of ~ett_lers in my district. as well as other ch<tn9ts, would bo die.appointed. They arc lookmg forward to this Bill to 011 •ble them to s-:ct permanent vutcr. I am glad to know th11t the Commis•.wncr and the Mnustcr, If they RO d('sire, can take a second mortgage, independent of the Agricultural Bank mortgage.

Clause 64 al"recd to. Clause 65-" F1md, hou· applied "-agreed

to. Clause 66-" Carrying out of ·,arks"-

.1\'r. PETERSOX (Xormanl>y): I beg to move the following amendment:-

"On lino Z4, paze 26, after the v·ord-. ' rate,'

insert the worrh-' not exceeding six per centum.' "

The clause as it stand· lcaH'S it absolutelv with the Mini~.ter as to what th·o rate of interest eh all bo; but it is better for all conc£'rncd that the rafe should be specifically provided for in the Bill. I11 connection with !oars from the Agricultnral Dank to loc'd aMhoriti. s. the rat0 of intc rc "t is c.pccified. and why should we make a diffNcllce in thi' C':tse? Six per CPnt. is n fair rate of interr·;t to lov clown, and the ;·0ttl0rs eon· c0rncd will th(m know that tho an1ount is not left to the Mini,ter to decide. The MinisLr m a' bo perfectly fair in hie- determination in the matter, but \' o know that :\Iini,tcrs come and go, and in 1ho future we rnay lJayf a Minister' "ho will fix an .trldmrv I~ate of interest. ·

The SECRETARY FOR l'cBLrc L.1xns: I will accept the amendment.

Amendment (JIT. Petcrson) agreed to.

Mr. PETERSON (:Yorrnani!?J): I beg to move the following further a1n'endment :-

" On line 38, page 26, after the word' Minister,'

f ilh. 111 organ.

insert the words-' Provided that cl uring the first three years of such period the applicant shall be liable for the payment of interest only.'"

The amendment will bring the Bill into conformity v.·ith the .'l.gricultural Bank conditions, which provide that interest only shall be paid for the first five years. To give the settler a chance. we ask that no repaYment of principal shall be payable for a period of three years. It is necessary to give the fullest possible a ,si stance at the beginning to the settlers for whom we have been pleading this afternoon, especially those mortgaged up to the hilt, and who may have to get a second mortgage. In the maj<?rity of ca~es a settler who has '' ater provided for h1m will ultimately be in a position to pay oft his liability. If we see him over the first three years of the period, we are going a long way to help him over a rough road. After that statement of the aspect of the question, I hope the Minister will see the advisablcne,, of accoptin:; this amendment also.

r2.30 p.m.]

:Mr. SW.\Y::\E (Jiimni): I hope tho Minister will accept this amendment. There IS arnple precedent for r;omc such provision in trw amendments \\'hich I w s the means of haYing- includr-d in our sugar legishtion in 1911 <<nd 1914, in whic-h the Government pro1·id· d that for the first two years IJOnc of ihc capital advanced by way of loan should bo repayable. }-\.. :'iiuilar provision ·was also included in the Co-operativP Agricultural Production Act, so that the amendment is not asking for anything· very diiTcrent fron1 \\hat is already on the statute·book in regard to sugar £arn101 ~ and oi.hen. I think it i;;; a ···ery re: 'SOnable provisjon to a:-'k for and I hope that the Minister \vill accept it.

The SECRET.\RY FOR lTDLTC L\::\DS (Hon. T. Dumtan, U!J!!11Jir): I cm not accept the an1cndrncnt lv--·cau.se it \Yotdd lay down n. rule for nll porsons 11 ho ask0J for assist-

and \vho might be ell ahlo to pay the l'g'('S. If hon. nwrub(_'L' \Yill read the

lnttcor portion of paragraph (ii.) they \1 ill sec that tlw J\Iinlstcr has pO\YC'r to sti1Hdatc for l't')Hl.YlllPnt in :-;uch n1aLn0r rnc~ a! -:Hell tin1es a~> rnn be ngn:··cl upon. I c ·nuot ngrc:c that thp clPpartmcnt shoald 1 ' ti · d dm1 n to a rigid eult' in all ea~c~.

Mr. :1IORGX:'-J (Jiurill<t): I c, lll1ut undcrst .nd the obieetion of the :\Iini t 'r. I undr ··stand that tfH~ Bill is dosig: cd to help those \\ho nrc in fiuanciul diffic:;ltiPs. If a man can afford to put in \Vat"r faeiJities hr is noL g-oing· to con1o to the GoyenJnlent for n~sistan('c. 1-lr can do it lltnch dY~alH~l and better himself. .\nybody who can g<'t finan· cial '''-:-istaneo from some1codv other than the Go C'l . .._lll1C'nt is not going to ~_tsk th·-=-' GoYernrnent to a:3"ist-. l1irn, l)(_;can~.e he wi1l not get an,- benefit by cloin~:;' so. \Y c all know that an.vthing the GoYt:rninr·Jlt. undertake co~t~. 50 pt r cent. more than if you did it yourself \Yith vour own IYlOllP\r, nroYidcd vour own \rorke.rs, and llid it iri a~cordanco \rith your O'.Y, u ideas.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLlc LAXDc: That is not a faci.

:\Ir. MORGAN: It is a fact. We know pr rfccth· well that the individu d can do anything for 50 per cone. le •s than the UoYcrnmcnt can in thejr public works. No

Wat~r Bill. [ 3 0CTOBT•'R,] Water Bill. 897

ettler is going to a,-;k thP GoYcrun;.r-nt for 1nonc~; to enable hin1 to put dow11 a bore or carrv out an v other forrn of V1 ork or water supj)l_y if he ~~au get tlw DlOUL'V frorn outside "OUrc'(',"'. It •.nls understood th~t thi~ Bill ,..,-as to apply O!dy to the rnan \Yho "a,-;; in financial diffif'ultics or found it difficult to obtain ]oa:n:-; fron1 ~ou1e other soarce tlP~n the GovPnll11C;lt, and I am ~urpriscd to h:ar the Minister say that this Dill i, oHlv goin;. to apply to tho-se who call afford to ·pay. -

Tlte So:cRETARY FOil PFBLIC LIX!l8: Thet·e nn) rnany ca;;;<._>.3 in which tlwv vrill he ablP to pay, ·

:1Jr. :\IORGA~: I think the :1Iinistcr will admit that in 99 per cent. of the appli· call\ • will not be able to the' money themselves or they have beQn turned dcwu b_,.:; financial institution', or banks, and so come. t0 the GoYPrnnlf'llt as a last l'C50Ul'C('. Vi:c thoug-ht that was the objPct of the Bill. \\ t ncYcr for a n1ornent. thought that anvbocly who could borrow from outside source;; >1 ould take a eh ant ag-e of thi.s Bill and it is ~ smprise to hear the Minister sugg·cst that it h V,OJng to apply pnnctpalh to tho't' who can afford to pay. The ame!1dment is absolutely n0ccs:-:;ary. The man who borro·,,;s \vill understand that he hac three years' free oi rcpa:nncnt of ( .tpital.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LAXDS : Head paragnph (ii.).

:\fr. JliiORGAX: I admit that that does sav somethmg about it, but it cloP' not make 1t- as clear as the an1e1Jdn1ent.

::'vir. S\YA Y-"iE (Jfirani): Seeing the reasonableness of the amendment Jt is a matter of surprise that the :Ylinist~r has not acccptQd it. It only mf'ans extending the term of the loan for another two vears and this principle is. contained in 'legisl,ation pacsecl b:· a pn'vJOus Government. This is one of the many instances constant! v occurring which indicate. ''Then it comes do\vn to real business in legislating on behalf of the farmers bY this Government that the leo-islation is not so favourable as' th.Jt introdu~ed by I :tst Governments.

.Amendment (Jir. P,tcrwn) ne;·atiYed.

J\It-. PETERSO:\" (Xoruwnli!l): I beg to 1llOYC the follornng an1endn10nt :-

" On line 45, page 26, after the word~ 'rate,'

insert the \YOrds-

' not e ·reed in,':'' s1x per cent un1.' "

FOR PCDLTC L\:\Ilc;: I a!n to ac~·ept the arncr:dn1cut.

Amendment pir. Pctcron) agreed to. Clause 66, n. an. -:ndcd, _;c·d to. Clauses 67 and 68 Clause 60~" rrattf'"'OUl"S( or 1'.~{('' on

t.'-~iC"([[cc/ land ./Of to be oiJstrudul."

:\h. \YARRE::\ (Jlun·ltmba): I l;c~· to lllOYC tl10 follo·wing .UITIC1ldll1Pllt :-

';On lir:c 47. page 29, 01nit t 1IC' word3-; or any darn or rcsPrvoi1·.' ''

I think tlw lvlini~tcr 1vill agree that· it is nccP~s;:u·y that tho,,e ·words be o1:ni• tcd.

Th-- SECTIUARY FOR PGilLTC LAXDS: This provision is already contained in the prin<:ipal Ac~.

Mr. \YARREN: There [, no need for these wordc, and the Committee ,-hould

l926~3K

han~ an opportunity of deeidi11g whether theY should not hP omitted.

::YJr. MOHCL-'\X (Jiuril 7u): I hope th<> ~.Iinistcr wlil accept this arnendmcnt. _.:\ dam Ol' rcser\·oir i~ s:nnethlng -which ha"- be0n constructed, dug out) or exC'aYatcd froru the soil. It rnight becorne necessary for the owner to fill in that cx~avation. It may be by wa~· of subdivision, or the land may be wanted for a garden Kit.e or other pnr11osc. An indi,·idual should have the right to deal with his property as he likec. It is a bad principle for the Govemmcnt to dictate in regard io something which the individual has paid for. or for that individual to have to rnake application to the Governtncnt to tnako some irnproYen1ent to a 1sater facility on his own land, or, perhaps, to fill in an objectionabk hole. On principle I claim tha.t the Government have no right to interfere with the liberty of the subject as they arc doing. There is too much interference bv the Gm,ernment with the iHdividmtl. Thev arc continually introducing law:': and cuw~111g peop~e to break then1 da~' by day. Can the lV1inistel' giYe the Connnittce one t·eason why these words should be in tho Act'!

The SECRETARY FOR I'cBLIC LAKDS: I presume lhey have been put there for good reasons.

Mr. :\IORG)\.X: Can the Minister give us the reason?

The SECRETAHY FOR l'LIBLIC LANDS: You ought to know why the_v have been placed there.

JUr. ::\;lORGAX: I do not know. L:nfortunatel~·, we now have no l:pper Houso '\here legislation can be revie-wed. In everv Act which has been passed since the L ppc'r IIouse 'vas abolished we can discover something which should not be there. and which is scrYing no govd purpose. If these ·words scrn:> any g·ood purpose, let the l\1ini:ter point it out. It should be his duty to do so.

The SECHETARY FOR Pl..~BLIC LANDS (H-on. T. Dunstan. (/ym.pit}: The.se y,'ords arc included in the Bill for the good and sufficient reason that thC'\' arc alrcadv in the Act. There rnaY be re~'crYoirs or ,(lanls of wnter \\hich ~,c~·c on a llolcling at the tirno thr principal _\et was pa~ .. ~cd in 1915, and which mav he of some value to the com-Inunit . For nutn~- it Invv be a gooJ a 11d ne cc.'" ,ary to prcscrv~· sa eh a \,ater facilit,-. 1"hic-h n1a1~ be of scn·iC'e to

of E:-u~-rouncling pl~oph'. This clan·:e to pren)Ei the d( trnctjon nf a ~.-atcr

1\ hi eh i:-: of to ihc surrov:nding Sl ttlcl':::;, all cl thu to co:nrnuni tL\·.

_)uncndnlcnt ("~Ir. H?arN n) neg·atiYCLl.

1lr. \YARRE~; (Jl'lcirum b1[): b~g to nlGYC the fo1lov ing d.n1endnH'llt :--

•· On line 5+, page 29, ornit the \Yord' hft·,

and ins-::~rt ilw \VOfLI-

' twc-.Lit.;-.' "

This unF'ndrr.c11t \\-ill re-duce ihc pcnalt_y uncl('l' the ch.nse fron1 £50 to £20. It see1ns to me tlwt this Dill is cspc·cia!l.v adapted to the rnaking of crirnir:als.

The SECREI'.'TIY FOR PcBLIC L.\XDS: If a penal(; of £5J \\ ould make a crin1inal, a t>enulty of £20 would also mako a criminal.

1111'. Wa1·ren.]

898 Water Bill. [ASSK\IBLY.J TVatfP Bitl.

}1r. ·wARREN: If it had bcE'n an amendment of the Liquor Act, a man would not be trcatc•d with the. same harshness as under this Bill. It is ridJCulous to tmposo such a pcnaltv. It seems to ;ne that the 11nn_stE'_r looks l1pon these peop1c as atroct<?us cnm~t~ nale.~peoplc to whom grave warmngs ~'" e to be given. I find that, generally speakmg, landowners arc respectable, la:v-abtdmg citizens. To insert a penalty of tlns sort m t.his Bill is outrageons and u;nnccessar;v. Th:c verv fact of a penalty bctng· p~oYtded ts quite p,n~c~cnt chc~:l: on a~.v orchn~r~' _l~'Y: ab=ding eltlZCn. and I con~td~r t~e 1\Itntstcr might >vell allow the suoshtut,:on of, the \YOre! "hvcnty" for the word lift~.. It wonld ~nrcly rnakc for the bctt-'r aclmtnistrat ion of the Bill.

The :c\RCRETARY FOR FCBLIC LA:\'DS (l-Ion. T. DPnst.an, rJympi~): T~l0rC IS no analogy bet:~,·een tins and anoUH',~: _clans: whcr" the }JL'!lalt:v· \vas reduc.cd: lhls ha:s to be .., re~ll ]lrnalt~', ~ecause rt IS a. penalty for dr''<trnction of and lntcrfC>rcncc ~.', Ith. \Yh~t n1io·hi hr- a ...-alnahle water suppl:Y, \YhlCh I~ is -;CC·'S"'1r~.~ to prescrY~ in th<:- intcn..:_.ts_p of the con1mu~~tv. I con~Hl0r :1 penalty of ~50 for a. Uc·truct~vc act of that ~vrt i~ not. excc.3-~ivc. It o~;lv rr rna:s:irnun1 penalty rn any caq:, but i~ necf •sary to ha Ye a really detcrJ'ellt penc:dt' .

Amcnd1nent (Jlr. H~arro1) negatin:-d.

:\tr. \YAHRE'i" (J[,.J.,.umba): b0g to move the follo;.ving an1endn1cnt.:-

·· On line 7, page 30. on1it the word. :Gfty,'

mHl ir1scrt the ·vrorc1--' 11s c.' ~'

_ \nu•nc1rnent nc~ativcd.

r1ausc 69 agreed to. Clnu c 70-" 1r1u:T1' no rrrra.~ r(,:. :titutNl.

Conunissiont r tukrs th duti1s ''-agrcccl to. Clc.lUM' 71--'' n-hrrc liO J)()(ud i8 ronrdi~

tutcrl, Con missioner tul.· s thr' d'tlics "-

J\ir. iY.U~RE:\' (JII'n''' m ba): I be-g to nlOYC the follcnving an1cncln1PLt :-

" On lines 24 to 37. both inclusive. pag-e 30 oP1it .'ubcl·uscs (2) and (3). rcac1ir.·~

' (2-.) The GoYPrnor in Counr11 n1ay dissoh·c a. :Board. rcmoYc from office the members thereof. ancl a}lJloint other 1n' mh·,rs or direct the election of other n1en1ber ~'-

~3.) The f:iovt'rnor in Co~nHjl m:t:~ di _, ohTc a Board. rcn1ovc tl·orn office the nlf'mlH=_.rs th0rrof. nnJ appoin' f1o Cmnrr11ss~oncr to rnanae.-c ihP affairs of the aren, and thercu110rl the ,Cot:1-rni~sioncr shall hA.\TC' all tbn rL;hts, po~n~rs. and authorities C01Jf ~Tcd ?:v thi.s Act upon a Born·d. On the d1Sso1nt1on of a Board under this subP.I'cticn, all thE' provcrty and a~scts of thn Doard, and oll rat£':", charges. <;1ncl othe-r rD01lf""'~ due or accru1ng to the Tion rd shall" bPron10 Vf'~h'd in anrl be rcco~ .•rabL:~ hv the Conuni~si01ET.. Snch proncrty and~ a'",--'t:t" ~hall be- charge 1~blo 'ith the liabilities of the Boar.J."

These snbclausco. authorise the di'"Olntion of a board b,, the GoYernor in Council. and I do not consider the Minister should have 'JOwer to dissolve a board. ·whilst admitting that with a Bill of this type the Minister must necessarily have certain powers, I am

[Mr. Warren.

sorr:· tJ ;ay that throughout the Dill the· Mini,t.er has cxu•eded hirmelf in that regard. Generally spc.tking, " Minister should try to delegate' as much of his power as possible. There an' manv rcasons whv he should not han' ihis powe~· and whv the board should haYc sonw say. If a local authority was n1n.kiPg a n1css of its busine·~.s it might be a g·ood thing for it to be dissolved; but I hope the ::\ImiCtcr will ,give this matter fair consid<:'ration. and make the ult.<:'ration asked for in the au!endmcnt.

The SECRETARY FOR PCDLIC LAKDS (:r-toL. T. Dun~t.an, Gznnph),: I cannot ac-cnpt t nt' rcn1;_·:HlnH'1lt, n s 1t v:-ould ll1Qke th0 Bill rldic .le l'"-. The Go\t.~rnor in Council n1Ui'''.

rc-ta1u th£• right to aboli.•h a board wh0re it i" CO!i"idl'!'Pd nt ·c ~tr . or ,.,-her,' thert~ rna'\' hC' ·rood Thr Bill ~ZiYt"l th-- G-oYErno;. ia C to PrC'at~, a bQard, nnd, jf l1P d icl power to a boiish snch a

an anon1aly. ~,lnf ·1d.r1ent (Jlr. Trarr·,) negatived.

::\lr .. _\Y.-YI~RE~~ (Jlu:'J·?r )lHr): I brg· to r,uyr• tlH' _,_o:loi\"Jng- HLlPnrlnF'1lt:-

"On line ll~ p:<,0·r 30, afLr the \'>Jrd' tli<TPOll'

· h:-;_t n.111 1 ~ing p~Hl pas:;;u w·ith a1I oth~.:·r rate . .::: -nd c-luu·g·p::;; 'd1ich al'(' b:v <llPr _\.et. C!f Par1ianl~nt. rnade a first dt .l'l"''l' ou th · ~·unc l:tud~.' ~'

Thr• SECllET.\lf'l FOR PL-:-DLIC L--:\='JDS rlL ~1 T Dnn .... tan, (-/1/l!lf.lil): I can!lot <HTCl)t

the rn•"'li:diJ~t:"l!t and. \~.;uld point ont to the ('qn11nitt• ,, that arncnducnt was lH'/~· tiY' d ia

::\Ir. KTXC >) : I that nn:z. 1d111t'~~t tn PJ• nt~ hnr t 1--. uo Jn~ the JUi "j-~t-- r 1101 1 i .. j<'~l · ?J1(1ncecl in

of The~ c·lause pro-

.. ..--\..11 1':-!.tC'" ~•.ncl ('hnrg('s 10Yiccl by the

ll

r-ht rccn t dQ:er !Jc p<.:id to

\Y.i.thin Dlr.- ar ,l n fir:-3-i chf"!i·::rc on

\,-jth anv in1i)rOYf'· crons for thC' tlmC' being

until ~uch rnh·}s aucl \·ith intC'l'f ,t, t!Jf'l'C'Oll. haY('

tllP C'onun1~"i011('1'.''

\Yf~.., 1-:nn'' rh·1t I":""', 1 rn"_-c, [l1so ,.re r; ;·r::"t ehr1rgc on 1h0 and it nnFt l-,c· ihat lo::_ , 1 nrc clo1r: -; ~l. ,.t ;n..; ill tlu• 1..:1rYC'lnpn1f''1t nf ni..l('C-:'1"1D1lcl fi:"< H11V V. Htc>r fa< ilitv i~ cfo. Tt ;..:. :-;ll \'f'1'Y ·well to ,

,-rJL·n ·~r0 011 ni11p..- nn 1z~nJ: ~.ut f,l'W irl-ir:p; .tlH~i'f' facilltit

if s-tqc,..: c·atv-:oc thf'1r p1·odnrts to n1nrk(·t <·n :-.tcr·ount tJ1o ah"• ne of ri.rL ·nt l'0c;.ch? I. i.~ tbc• J11~ of t1H~ aut.horit·. to 1Y!'o\-ide l;oo ~ ro<lcls. 11nd th0 anthorit.·, ;·ntes · 1 !ould ralik l)Cl~lall·~ wlth an>.T rhnrgcs

1c, that nHty 1;·• lc-,-i,_,d by 'the Con1-

:J.Ir. JHCJOR£ (J ·Jl)ir_ntli): Y Ltrions Acts n1·p

'c~E'r~~ cnnflirt:n ,. i!1 ~·.·iar<l tn rntf'f'-. TlH' I ne 1 A· thor1t;f,~ Af:t rl0fin-itPl': st8tcs that tlJ<' l'<JL'- ~"hall he a fir.~t ch;;rgc- on th0 land. fJnd 1L tt h~, ~,lU~f'd an onon,;·OU~ amount of fro1•h~ .' \,·ith the )~p-rjcultnra1 Hnnk. A loco I rulhr;riiv .~'!(lrJ,·nlv ftncl~ t]l,,t the Ag-r1rn1turai Hank tak0~ on'r :t JHopr-rty. anrl thnn all th0 rflh:;::. in ~rr0ars a:re gone because it becomes Crown land.

Water Bill. [5 0CTOBEH,J Water Bill.

It js uot, a [uir thing that local authori~ t!cs-\vhirh are rcallv Gover11mcnt instru~ mentalities doing woi·k which the Government compel them to do-should be placed in a position w hi eh is n1uch "i-orse than either that of the Agricultural Bank Oi' the Comn1issioner of Irrigation, which are bu.sinc•, -~ concern,, and exmninc t,Lo securitY to s0c \Yhct.her lt is good enough tcJ lcn~1 tnono,- on. 'l'ho loco I authorities have not got that pmn,r. Thc:v have to provide cPrtain ~ crvice-; fo1· pc'Ol)1c \Yhcthcr they think ih"~ H='curit-y i:- good or not., and, if the r[!tcpay0rs' E10DC'.V is to be spl•nt to 11rovide facili6os \Yhich indiYiduals haY(' Eho lw11 !it of nnd do not p~LY for, I do not sec \Yhy the:- sho;lld b<' placed in a disad-

position. -"\\'' c ha Ye no\v ~ot nuthoritics a1l saying that

n1on~'."~: dnL' to them is a fir~J charge o,1 the lau{1. Then YH.' bring- in an anH~nding Bill proYiLlin~~ tL 1t tho protection of a first charge ~hall r>nly o-;)f'rato for ono year. Tho ._\:..,cicu1tunll Bank is a bu::-.incss con( ··rn ju:::t the lilt<::~ a~ a priYatc bank. and can look r1.f1er ~ts ::;ecnrity. \Y0 are giYing th ~Agricultural l~rLnk and the Con1n1i-.;sioner this po'.YPl', \Yht"lr the Jr::~al fluthoritif's haT-e not got it nt e1ll.

'l'hc SECREnRY ron P CBLTC L \XDR : \Y c han~ a1rC'ncl. a~~"TC'Cll to this in cvnncctiou \Yid: ::;u1H'lau': :_\ (3) of clau::;c 32.

:Jr. }IOORE: That dccs not 111akt~ it ar:_~." mon• jL:.~t. The position is Yery unfair. hcL r1n::-c th(' lnca1 authoritic-, a.r0 con1p0llcd to do c·ert<1i11 t.hings for the- Govf'l'rHncnt tuld not. fcT thc:msc'lYes: have to earl''-' out certain \York 1Yh1ch Go'. c•rnntf'~t. d('!f'g3t(' to thC'Pl. I do not ::;;ce \VhY the-, qhonlr1 be placed in a disa<h~anta7POu·::; po::d-tio:J. ~\n:.- rates o to !he Lands Dq .. trt-Inent arc a fir:- on the lands con-cr•rn·:d. End ~sln~ the locnl anthorit~cs nnt b0 placed in thr snrnc po:<ition? I

obj{ t to rr1ncndinp; Bi:l" in ·with such nrnyi~~On:'. \Yp

th(~ no;;:;ition (L'finiteh' 1ail1 do\""~"11 in an ..:\et and t-hen v;c in a. Rill

ri,·ht" !or;•]

Tltr StCBETA BY ron P•:PL lC a definite 1nonctrrr·· arh-anc:.3 ,,-atcr :'Pr\7 1cc. '

to with tlw -!:- kc av;a~,, the

prcYiou.- 1~~ to

L\-:;ns: Tt is for a dc,finitc

}ft·. ~IOOHR: But rirrht . ..:; cor;.fc-"!Ted b·,., the lo~1l authorltil') iri tl~r carr. ing out of "ark. r:nr1 I r1o not think th'tt i::; ri_:Tht. local Blll ::;hon1c1 b~ .-crl in the sa m'' or ral) k to, these lnclic~.

\ir. l(l::"~Ci- TlY· :Iill1~tt'r. b:v i11L'rjectim1, th0rc "' _:;; a different ~et of (•irf lHlhtancc-~ ~o fur ;:u this BiH i5 con( ~:·rH'd-Lhat thcl'C i" a p'"1::..tiru1ttr .tppropritttion b;' Par1ia:mc-1;t, ''<\hi eh has to be 1nct. ...:\lthough :here rnay not be a cE.:;tinct npproprjat~on for 1cwn1 nuth.oritic~. thc•y h:1Ye to pro -idn inh•L·est and rcclcnrption, whirh con1o out of the rates, in connection "-ith th": repayment of loans. Loans to !or J authorities are on exactly the f'rune footing as tho appropriation made in cannection with this Bill, and the cirenn1stanccs are quite sirnilar. I do not sec whv one lnstrun1ontalitY of thG Crown shoul(l be given a greater Udvantago than another instrumentality of th0 Cro,vn -the one is not entitled" to preferential

treatment as againot the other. They shoL1ld be on the ;;amc footing, and that is .all the arucndrncnt asks.

[3 p.m.] Amendment t.llr. Tl'arrcn) ncgatiYed.

Mr. WAHREN (Jlwrum/m): I beg to move the fol:owing amendment:-

" On lines \4 to 51, page 30, omit the words-

. Prm-itlcd that if the laud in respect to which the rates and c·harges are due is n1ort.gaged to the Corporation of the Agricultural Bank crcah>d b:.- the A.gricultural Bank Act of 1923, the first charge upon the lancl in fayovr of the CoE1n1issioncr shall, as against tho said corporation, be limited to the amount of one Y<~ar' J arrears of rates and clutrg·;~., and intere'.t thcrcon till paid Ol' recoYered.' ''

I can sec no n'ason for giYing preference to one of U:tc,~c bc:dics over another. This clause deaL ·with casPs \"rhcre ach-rrnccs have been m,,clc by the ~-'lgricultnral B.1.nk. The Bcerburrum scitlc;·,, for instance, arc liable for ru to-. to the Lrrndsborough Shire Council. The .Agricultural Bank has a prcfc.rence, and the re,ult is that the council ca.nnot collect Jhe rates a:1d the orc1inary business of the c Jmlnunih~ i::< interfered ,vhh. In that caso I thl11k the sc•ttlers O\YC £1:500 in r._ttes.

1\·o SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC L.\XDS: This b;1s nothing t.o do with that.

::\h. \Y 'HRE:\': I camwt sec why there Ehould be an~~ prcf0rcnce in tht>so 'things, ~altl I have. thercfoee, very n1uch plcasuriJ in nloYing th(~ anlPltdmcnt..

The cn:CRETARY FOR P"l'BLIC LA:\'DS (Hon. T. Dunotan, Gympir): I should like to c-,.pJain to hon. members that subclause (4) ha \-ing bcc~J agreed to. 1naking 1.·atcs and han.rc" lC'\'icd bv the Comrnl~sioncr a first

~ < • if onl_-- to giYc effect to n1c·nhc-r _. t.hcrnselYes in rP~pcct of lands \Yhich already carry \ har~~··s r1ne to th" Agricultural Bank. to proYide thnt t.hc ri~·ht~ of the Co!nrni2sioner :3hvll oulv extend to one ~.-rlr's nrrPar.

- :i\.ioon.r:: That doe's not help us. It onl~, llJS the \gricultural Bank.

Th, SECHET"\RY FOR I'L'BLIC LA:\'DS: lmt hcHL rncnJbtT3 haYc used that there shculd

f~'rencc. a-1d thls lirnin the one Year's arrears as a'_,·aiL t the' lion. nu_:r;bci hr. l~(f that t~E~ clans~ ·wv'lld

.-:ettlcrs gc·Tting auYt:. nres, rights as b0twccn the ..:.\gri

and ·i.llL' Co tnni•.-·.io .. c-1·. ::;It. ~)OOHt~: '1'i1c settler has no f'~l_\".

.... \.nlelldll1cnt (J!r. nTarn,l) ncg·atin'd. c:a use 71 a.gl" ed hJ.

Clause 72-" Jl ;;; isfr r a ·quire r orks"-

::\lr. S\'1 A Y::'\E C'lirani): I beg to moYe the fo1loY-ing- an1CllclnlCiJt :~-

" On lines 13 to 22, page 31, on1it the v,-ords-

' but in no case .<hall the amount of compem~ti<Jn to be paid by the Minister exceed the actual C..>st of Rurh 'vork, less such sun1 for depr-9~ elation as the court n1av Jetennine, not,vithstanding anythini; to the contra.ry in any other Act.' "

JJlr. Swayne.]

Water n;u. [ASSE:\IBLY.] Water Bill.

This is a most important clauce dealing with the c:o!11pensation in casoR where the Con1~ missioncr rnay, perhaps, take away fron1 a man his whole means of livelihood. The provisions Df the clause scen1 most arbitrary. I propose to read subclauses (l) and (2) o that those who read " Hansud" mav see ;vhat is intended- •

" (1.) The Minister may. without complying with the provisions of any other . Art, on giving iho 01vn0r er occupier of any artPsian well or sub-artesian well or any tank or dam or other \York of w.tter supply or water conservation not less thun thirty days' notice, acquire any such artesian \Yell or sub-artesian well 01:

tank or darn or other work of water Jupply or \va ter conservation, togeth~r with land upon which the same IS situated. upon SLF h terms and conditions as may be agreed upon."

" (2.) If the Minister and such owner ·Gr occupier fail to agree upon the terms and conditions of such acquisition, the matter shall be referred bv the Minister to the Land Court. \\:hose decision thereon shall be final and conclw<ive, but in no case shall the amount of compensation to be paid by the :'>Iinister exceed ,the actual cost of such work, less such sum for depreciation as the court may determine, notwithstanding anything to the contrary in any other Act."

This clause is of a far-reaching natul'e. On many of the holding, the water supply is everything, and by this clause the Minister proposes to deprive the settler of that facility. There may be cases when it is ncce,,ary in the public interest to acquire public property, but it should be done on fair ter·ms. By this cl a use a man on the land engaged in a iife and death struggle to retain his home is liable to ha,·e eventhing token from him and have the cor;,_ pen~ation litnit(~d in a drastic way. I-Ic n1ay be deprived of tlw use of his well and receive 110 compensatinn becau.'ln it rnay be determined that the depreciation reduces its value lo niL The land mav be of value onlv be< 'tuSC of the \latrl' supply available, 1\•ithOUt which the block would be useh·•s. This is onl" the thin edge of the wedge of confiscation. In regard to other property resumed in the public interests, subsection (4) of section 23 of the Public Works Land Ht•sun1pticn Act reads-

"Thc T_.,,ncl Courl shall h_ \'C' juri-diction to hP-'!.r -~ncl dct·"'rldiue all .matte~'S of < :Jlnr>e'usation.''

.\ll c_tHr~n0: of ...-alue arc considered ilw " well or a

lt

Th·~~ SECHET~\.H~~ FOR Pl~lJLIC L} .. :\DS T. Dun:-;t uu, r-(u rn pi() : 1 C0_Hnot <H

n-rH'ndnH:llt. The c!au:~-, o~ it sro.nd::; W'' -~·1ry. In t 11c c 1--t~ of t1w \\,.ild 1-Torsc Plains awl Charlotte Plains bore we had to pa~: an amount of cornpen~ation much greater than tho origi11v.,l co.:ii of the \,-ork. That lTIC'-!.nt a ht :~;-y loading on the incon1ing zclector.

Mr. KING: It might have been worth it.

[Mr. Swayne.

The SECHETAR¥ FOR PL'BLIC LAKDS: The ·e i_~ EO• intPnti~n undc:r _ thi? clm.~::;e to be• utdau·, but 1lH're 1:5 a. clelrnttc Illt.l'nhon to l1e fair to the ln"Olning s.dcctOL Therefore i C th ., 0\\ llCr i> po.id the actual COSt of jlUl·

tin2· do .m the bore>. that ill hn fair both in thr int 'l'l :'"-tS of thP o-,-,-ner of the horc and nf thP iJ:cO!}!ing selector. That 1::; the sole L't·a:;on for t':e daus0, and the arnendrncnt is n('t fJir in the intcrc:-:;t;;; of the inrorning· ~t'lccior or th~ O\'i~ncr of the bore hin1self .

1\fr. KI~'; (LO(fllll): The reply of the fvlini-tPl' i:-; CllW of the wcake:;t replies that I !taYe eYer h2ard from a :\1inister. His defl•nce of th(' clause prarticallv amounts to I'obbiilg Peter to pa.y Paul. He referred to the selectors of Wild Horse Plains who had been penalised throtigh the payment of compensation for improvements. The Minister tlas sta.lccl that tlll' owner of the bore would onJ::· ha pale, a certain arr1ount. ~o that the ineorning ~dector will receive the benefit.

The ;.)ECHLTARY FOR Pcnr.1c LA~DS: The cnnwr will be paid the actual co,t of the \York.

:\lr. Kl;;'G: It. rnav cost him thouS>mcl' of pounds men: to rq1l~co that borP. The eost nf putting tlo'."\·n a bore is now greatly rn exeoss of \.vhat. it ,, .. as sorne years ago. I do not see bow the ~linister is acting fairly bv dr>priving the oYrners of ::-;uch bores of >omcthing they are entitled to. The Government arC' going to exercise their powers, which are very· drastic. and deprive a person of something ,vlthout paying adequate con_1~ p<nsat.ion. The tribunal sd up b:v the Pnbhc \Ym·ks Land Resumption Act to dcterminC' ::uch con1pen~ation is the Land Conrt. That court v•ill not a1lo...-y a person n1ore con1· pcmution than lh' is entitled to. \Yhy cannet the GoYcrnn10nt tru;;;t that court to as~es~ the compcmation ·! The action of the Gon•rnnicnt sho'\Ys that they haYe no eonfidenC'C in the court to clctL·rmhw \Yhat tlw compensation clwulcl be. This is ono 0f the mw•t dra~tic elau~- ~ in the 13i!L and .tlrnost arnount..:; to conGE~ra tion.

Tho SE~RET.A_RY FOn PunLIC I. \XDS: \Ye arc giYing hin1 the actual cost of the v1ork.

::..rr. MORGAK (Jl11i'ilh): This is one of the n1c:t far-reaching cluu~es that has C\'er br0n pl:- _•d in an _\et. of ParlianlClll lu thi, Stttte. J t 1~ tht: thin cd,~.\< of tb'~ \Yf'dg"t' fur introdncing '-iillilar proYi~ion in future Bill~. 1 t muu1 that, if the GoYt'l'lllllPnt dt ,ire to

OY(~:._' <Hiy ''" --tpr roJY~crYat i0n CH' \York~. of dctcrnliJLin~; tbe compc;1~.,1tioa

lH? lTfcn·ell to t 1-(' Land Cour~

PO'.YC'l'

Cmut ·will ~ Bin. The'

hnYi."' no L~ith in th1' Jo:-;t cont:.ol of it.

f iYc thC' L --:1cl Cotnt+-o (lt:L'l'nri· c: V·:h 't i l.,,.bOll<l hlc corn

,,~~hnt i: tlt~ u·-c of to fix t111 :'Inonnt ,,·hen it. i:'; laid

Rl:ual ro~t of the ,~-ork, dc-pt·t cia i io11, cu n 1: ') Is tlw like-lY to offer kss than <tctnrrl ro·_t. c1cducting del1rcciation? Th. t is the point. I wish to make. H so, .;hy this appli( 1tion to the Land Conrt to havP thf' .·rong- rcctif,t .. -1? IL is only a farcP. Fil·:'t of all. the o'.··:n0r:-; are not llkclv to :1sk for less tha-n the actual cost. ancl, according to this proYision. the Lr1nd Court ~annot give them more than thP actual cost. Second, PO

fair-minded Minister is likely to offer less

Water Et//, [5 OCTOBER.] Water Bill, 901

than the actual cost, less depreciation. \Yhv ha YC this clan~c giYing po\\ f'r to gt) :o t.hC court '" hL'n the wrong cannot be r~ctified? Su11pOsing the t._.an1e Jn·oyision 'vere jn rn Act of Prrrliamcnt dealing with the resumption of cih- property for the widening of strect,~iakc the ,,-idenil•g of Adelaide street a:-t an illustration-a great deal of rcsun1ption ha:-; trrken n1ace there reccntlv. 'Tho P nlt of a ~in1ilill' clause to this ,,;ould be 1hat all those people who hac! thcit· land rr'umed b" the Govc·rnment or the Cit: Conncil yyould be able to claim onlv the ac-tnal cost o£ buildings erec-ted t.rerity or fift;;,r a!:!:o~ v:hen the co~t. of building \\-a~ p"'r cent. chl:ap_r than it i-;, to-da:·. ~uch a rhine; ,,-ould not. be tol .. ratcd; yet the Con•rnment intend to in •rt the thin end of t!w ;ycdgcc with a. YiP\Y to saying at a later datp that a pr~cf'dcut ha~ llePn cstub]i,iwd. and that ench a princivlc will hold g-ood in re::;ard 10 the resumption of anv lancl or property. I point out to the :\IInistcr tile uufaimc" of the clanse, and ask that it shall not bt• embodied in the Bill.

It i:::;. a ·wt"}ll-known fact thrtt in : ·"t about l2s. 6d. per foot to put bon>, induding casing and f!inking. 1 hP ~m ne bvrr' would co:-3t about £1 foot.

1914 it down a To-da: 5s. per

The SECRETARY FOR Pl'BIIC Lt,~DS: It did !lut cost the settler that.

. Mr. :\lClRGA:\' · It. did not; but the point 1~. that :-·ou arc t~lung from a man sonlcthlllg that to-da,,- rs worth £1 5s. per foot. If he wanted to put down similar works on the part of his property that had not been re'·Umed. he \Youlcl lwYe to pay £1 5s. per foot.

The SECRETAHY FOil PcBLJC LA~DS: It is uHr~trncd incren1cnt.

:\lr. MORGA:\': It is silly to >aY it IS

urw,arned incrPrnent _jn.st because the cost of labour and n1atcnal has gone up. The Go,·cnmwnt do not wish to allow these p0opic the cost of that labom· or the cost of that work. lt i' not a matter of the \aluc of the land going up at all. There may be :::<otne nncarned inerc1nent in the r~ct that a block of ]and purchased at £1 an acre I1a:;; increased in valnc to £5 an acre. Tlw :\liui··tN can call that unearned incrempnt if h0 likes; but I do not. The :'.i~ni~tcr is not n1aking .any provision in th1s clau'c for the Ios, of goodwill with respect to the land fro;n whieh the water i~ being takPu. ~.\ 111 an 1na v ha vc a 10 000-acre bl(_,·k of l? ncl. l-It:> n;av havt~ a boro on OllC portion of it ,.d1ich is ~-watering those lQ,(VJQ .1('1'(\~. rrhc Connni~::-ioncr Jnav dc~il'(' to resume thp bore on that land. ancl all hc is called upon to pa~'. in nC'cordancc with this clan'C is the actual cost of the work. T~mt land may l,c worth £1 10s. an acre w1th the y, ater on it; but the lYlClncnt it is clepriYPd of the \Yater the Yalue mav go down to £1 an arrc. That nu:~n -,·ili nOt only lose the Yva tor taken from him, hut he lo~C';; ]0.::. nn acre in thn depreciation of his land, and he hns i..o pu,--:.~ rent on that Ya1uation.

\\T() on this side intC'nd to fight thh to the bitter end. H is Yi,:ions leg-islation which is going to do injury. The Government de" ire to in filet it on the poor unfortunat€: bushman, first of all, to sec how he takes it. and. if he takes it lying clown, it will bP gTaduallv introduced into cvcrv Act of Parliament 'that conres before us. 'It is the

thin eml of the wedge of socialiotic lo!!islation. ln 7act, it is nothing 1nore 01:- less that COllllllllnistic legi::.latlon, because it 1s intended to depriYe rr man of the value of property to which he is justly entitled; and, if it c.m be done in regard to country ate2s, it will eventually be applied to cit:v areas. It iJ only <--ztnlOl1-

ftage for the Minister to tell us that a person who j,;; abont to lose his -..-.. tC'r frrcilitv has tlH• right to ap11cnl to thP _L ._nd Court." \Yo

,_ hi:n no ~nch right; at alL \Ye say, l~on c;tn g·o to the L·.tHl Conrt Lut the

L:~nd {'-Htl'l- ('an onl:v giYC' you the rtetn._ l co~t. le .. ~-, df'i)rc<·i, tion. '' and 110 ::~Iinlstcr -.. -c~1ld P\-cr thi!lk of offc·rin2,· 1.- ··S thrrn the actual {_ J . .;;i· rfter dcductill,'~ deprc. iation. The O\YilL'r of tbL \YaL'r farillt:- cannot n,,,k for lllOl"C' thr.n '- ~tual co.;t, lr ·~s depreciation, .alJd tht ~.liHi~.tc'r 1 :-) onlY PX('ll~L~ i~; that tho iJt('Ol1liiJg h•uant. is goi1~g 10 bt> protcct0d in this rnatlL'l'. Ilc is goillg· to pPna1isc the nionn<'r for the bl'ndit of some fntur~ incom· ln~r tPrJRnt, \\ho is·lJrcparecl to go out after cy~•n,·thing i~ n1ade nice for him. -..vhilc the poor' unfo·rtunate original ~0lcctor-thc rnan l'f"sponsiblc for the con;'truction of the v;ork ~ha' to !war the burden and all the hard knoC'k~. It is unfair and unjust, and I intend to oppose it b~.- eYery nwans in n1y po;,ycr. nncl I f0d f'Ure that .every nu~r~bcr· on th}:.; si JP ·will YOtf' ? ga111st a YlClO~lS principle such as this bcin':':' introduced In anv n1easurc .

::Yir. G. P. H.\TI:\'RS (Wurwirk): Thu difh~rc·nc0 hPtv.·cpn the ns~arancc giycn by t.he 1Iini~hT and the rlan~c Wf' are de._ding \\ ith is Ycrv o-rcnL The ::Ylinistcr st.at<>d a fcv rr1ornenis ;go thaJ. he had no intention of interfering V\'ith f';ett]crs in acquiring a vvater ~uppl.v: but h(' coinPs d.o\Yn with this ~1easure which giYc-< hinr all the pown of domg tlw unfair and unright ous thing. IIow· any man with a in~t idea of thingf'; can _Pxpert us to put u Bill like 1 his through wlth an assurancP of that kind i>< past mrdcrstanclmg. It i~ ma.nifcst]v unfair to acqu1rc a rnan's goods or property without giving him the full ya]ue tlwrefor. Yoct would perhaps eshmate the \·ahw of a water supply v;hlch is acqui~·ed b.y 1mrchase at the actual cost of puttmg 1t down: but tlw fact rPmain., that the amount paid for the \Yatpr supplv will probably he t·eturnrd to th0 pnr('ha~er oYer and oyer auain The 1nnn -.,..,.ho originallv put down the b~re may haYe bePn dead ~ long· time, and an inco~ning pnrchaf'f'T 1nay haYC paid un inClY-1Pcrl price for the propcrt_y largely due to the fact that a mpply of water ·as obtained. In ~0100 in:-t.ancr,:; I have heard of art,"}sian 1vatl::-r flowing man~v miles, and we c:tn imng-i11r th<' ~;rcat value such .rt r;tq1p 1:- would g-in~ to a property when It f•hanq-rd h.u:cb. }~f't the nc;,v OVi'lll'r, \Yho

ha~ ]wid a ya~t ;'.Ulll of alone;..' in consideration of the snpplv of watct· availab!P, may 'tiddenh· find that· it i' going to be taken O\ t'r b.\· the ( on1Jnis>ioll!:?r. although noth]ng \T.-aQ f''li.:-~ about. it b::ing takt•n OY<'r n:·hcn he ~'r;qniroJ the propcrt- at an C'Dhanre~l co~t on account of it. :\o one ctn a.v tnat IS iu~t or L1ir. <lltd it i no n1or0 right 10 do an nniu~t thillQ.' j~1 a ,..,-a·y than it i~ to seck to ":!o it. bv the nower,; Yvh;ch the department i~ o;iYe1t. · Th0 ihin~ i::; unjust.. and it js not go~ng to n1ake for thl' pro~perity of the {·ountr.-..

.Anart fron1 that. C'YC'r:_yth1ng in this da.use is t~nder the san1o catcrror·. An artesian water 2LlPl11y, a dan1, poth(;le::.. or tank are

Mr. G. P. Barnes.]

902 Water Bill. [ASSE:\IBLY .] Traler Bill.

all included in the san1c cnh'gory, and may hL· l'LjllllJ ·d or aCT!.ilircJ, JWrhap~ at t.lw in:'tall~(' of ~on1o selfish ncirhbour. The incli\-idwd Yd J nJaY rnoYc t11 ·L\nnrnlssioucr mav flaY.- n,o nlfJl't_' ·l·jg·ht .io tl~~H ~npr~ly ~f Watt:\ than tlle man 1vLo h gol.ng to Ul~ nc·bJlTCC1 from tlJe en.io.vrncnt of it.

ThP p- _·R£T}I~Y FOR PrBLr' Lx:\D~: IIC' \-. (>ll]d HOt f,:·~-·t it.

P LUC\E3: ull t.h~' :_~a...'hin r~- to

1S

to ,\-iL r j.., If , . .,-, 0-nr-:--cloing ~~ 11ot

Jr., >ll(L· 1. il'l 1'::\ tc' Y.()l'd'l "\T.hich 1HlY 1 ~ tc do -~ i1 h rJ .' act a ._y.i_l'i1•g. Jli tlnlt

~r. ilio take> \-t'·t·:·: dause in the :_..ilL and un{::.1r. f thiLk aot OYl'f YC'l'V

eas1lv bv b at the tinl;' uf l' ·-~url1phon. as it would co~t the~ incnrning t naLt n~1·.ch mort' to proYidf' the \Yat 1.?l' fur h.in1':elf bp ~-:illking a nev.· bon•. As the he-n. nlecnb:;r for \Yar,vick sa~·,, it i~ not ahYay-.: the of tho bore~ -..vllieh 1 hp oHtg-oing tenant le in g. lie n-wy Jn ·;p bo·_tg1Jt brforc the Act 'n.s pa~:-(•d and a CC'l'taiit YrhH· for the' \Yater ,-.,-hirh \Yrt::: .-.,cured at Inu<'h aboYe thr origiaal cost of tlle br_,rP. Th~' f'o::.t of Loring lu.~ iw r~·asPtl :'-O niuch latch; that the ach;al cost of t}1(~ \YJrk 1-','onld no.t con•r its ,:alu~.

The Sr::cnET\HY FOR PrBL"IC LAxns: Thf' clau~e .-;a;.s. "the actuul co-,t of stH"h \YOrk.''

~Ir. \V. ~"\. RGSSELL: I take it to 1ncan th actnal co .... t of putting do·wn a Lore origjnall;·. The O\ ncr n1 ,._~- haY(' va id a certain :.:.lnll or rtiYc.n a certain value for that. wat0r kno,Yifig what the co."t wou]d be to put a new brn~P do\Yll at prc~cnt· prices,

cun1pa::~d \Yith an adjoining piece i 3.30 p.n!.] of b~Hl with no y;atcr on it.

and ha<l to nnt down the bore hirn~c.Jf. I rnaintain thU:t yon a1·0 treating the inrorning h'nant fairly 1f ;~ou charge for the yaluc of the \Y"1tnr. ( :<n the othc·r hand. the clansP- is abs01 '.lich~ unfair t~ the own1_-r, bcc1_n~0 tho achrt1 y' h of the bore may Ue far grcntPr than the orig-inal eo 1. I hone the l\Jini_:tcr 1 ·ill ~f'e h1:-' - dPtU' to provide that tlJL' nmolnt shall not. the actual cost. of the >Yod<, lmt the actual ,·aluc of the bore "\vhen thl' outgoing tenant gin.'s up posscsSHJn.

:::~~r. HOBEHTS (f'rud 1'oo11'oomUu' I tak( it that tlw ho1L mcmbPr for DalbY wanh the stun a~~~ ..:;sf~cl on the basis of th,:" cost of n•:)lacr-rnent. I \Y<tnt to :<'l" IirP-t and forcHJO·t that this Bill depreciate, tlw ndur of a nlLtll:::' laud, "·hether lc~nsehold or otherwise. I would like to nnder,ttmd from the lVEnL-tcr ·shcthcr. this pro'.-i:don applies to ca~es \Yhcre thl Conrrni~sion0r arquires the land as well ~~s th'"' \\ater appliance'"· or on}:.~ to l'l~L'S here he acquir, tlte ,--R.tc•r appliance~. A fe\Y 1nlnuic~ ago tl1c J\.lini~t""r lPd rr1c to infer that the .intention }\-·a." that, whPn ihc~ C:on:-rnn1c•nt rc'sunH.'d a certain lraet of cour~trv nnd subcliYided it Letwcen inco1ni11g t~ rH1i1t . the 11cw Olvner::; ·v\-·ould ha-..-e to pay thP pricP. If thE: Governrnent take· land and the \Y:lter appliancn.s from an individual--things which are his: own~c·cau'P they want him to r;-ct off tho land In th('l !ntc•n.,ts of thr: general <'Orrlnlunity, he ohoulcl g-(•t a fair return for his assets. l-Ie sho-..._lld get the Yalue of the• land and 'vatcr

[jfr. G. P. Barnes.

fncilit:~,.,. as it 1vas at the tin1c of his dis· r.:o<,St.::'sion. If he \\ant~ to go to other land, he should certainly get what it will cost to replace the facility he js handing over. If. on the other hand, he is going to continue ln possf'ssion :u::d supply \Yatcr through the Cornn1issioner to other lands. it. is quite a lifft:rPnt que , tion; but even then ho ,, hould

be p :id the n· ·son able cost. I do not know \\}!0 i3 rPspon.:;ibk for thi;-:; Bill. whid1 s8e1ns tu nH' a Yt:l'y good cxa::.nplr-.! o£ •• Soeialisn1 in ('Hr Tlmc>," lmt th~ CrO\"'.'ll takes good care tu uo p·;crythiug :- t the lo\Ycst possible cost, ,:nd n1 ke thP people svho have gon~~ to tho

t·~~p-=-rJ , to pl'OYide the facility fu1nish them chca.ph- as JJJ"~it-~n \Yith all the infornla-

1 :or~ in tht'ir pm ·ion. They say that tho o .. :nct· n1P·~l giYt.:~ :. dciinite statcn1cnt of the cc,.[ of tllC' wol'k. l-ie rnay not, of course, be abl·- to,- i\0 a definite statuncnt of tho cost.

hon. membei· for Warwick aid. It I-ul vc 1wcn done ,-cars before he can1c

and I should sav thrct he is to the snn1 ,vhich a wor"k of sin1ilar

::trnction \Yotdd cost. \Ye haYe to con-hvo case~. If the land is going to be

aeqnirrd cntirclc, he is entitled to a value '\:l1ich \viH placC hi1n in an equivalent posi-1Inr~. If the water only is to be taken, he is ('fltitJc.d to the actnal co~t of replacement;

if he continues on the land, he a contributor. a taxpayer, a buyer

. "ater from rho facility which up to that t1n1c \Yas his oi-vn. If the Cro\vn are to takp over a valuable facility and reap some re\Yanl .. :-:.urc1v the n1an thee: are dispossessing ~hould rCcc>ive conn)Od.'>~l tion an1ounting to actual CO.:O.t of r0pla~con1ent.

:\lr. MOORE (.1 ubi;rny): I would like to clra\Y tlw attention of the :Minister to the a bsurcl pos !tion thn t '\1 ill a riso if the Blll goes throu!.dl. \Yhcu the Governrnc'nt r0sunwd t~7' Cowrie homl'stead property thPy took 1t over \\-ith a bore which had j llSt bt>Pll put c1own at a COSt of £67. rrhos;:; .are some quo.stion~ I a~ked in the Tiouse concerning that property-

" 1. At \dut date \\PS '.hr bore corn· fllf'nccd along' ide Go'~" rio I:Iornestead?

· 2. Has ii 1Jcon completed yet. If so. wh0n?

"3. To \Yhat clopth ha it· been sunk' '; 4. \Yhat is t1 _ _,_\? co;-;t to datP? "5. I-L~, an adequDtf· supply of y;~~ter

bcPn ~;,, ur,_ c1? .,

.. rfh;_' f-'rcRI:l.\RY

(JI~Hl. \""'~:·. ~\lcCor t~ ~ck, J. 1:\DS

rt..~Jlird-~

" 1. Ou 16th ScpL'mlwr. 192::'. '·2. Yco .. On 29tll Jurw. 1923.

'· 3. 337 feet 2 inches.

·· 4. £~J2 17s. lOcl.

'· 5. y,-. At least 400 gallons of water certif10d lJ\~ Go-..-cl'nrnent

to ],e suitable for stock and all 11urposes."

IIerc ,,·ere two bores. one beside tho other. 0'10 ""i ing £67 and the other costing £682 17s. lOd. 'The Go\·ernn1r~ut resu1n»d the first bore at a <'O'.t of £67. less depreciation.

ThP Sr-:cn=::T.\RY FOR PenLrc LAXDS : .... ~re 0·on arguing that the co.st. should be £682?

Mr. :\IOOH.E ·: The GoYcrnment put down a hore to th0 sarne depth at a co;;t of £682 17·;. lOci. Wlw dwuld not the same principJ,• operate'- If you arc going to take it

Water Bill, [ 5 OcTOBER.] Water Bill. ()03

..-over. then take it over 1.t its value to-daY. and not at its co~t. The priv3.tC bore was put do\vn ~even 1nonths befo1·e the Go\"~)rnment bore ''as put d0\>'11. The \Yhok thing is ab_ olntd~ \YroEg. \Vhat VYould be the position if any :rnetnbcr of this Conunittcc could ~ay t0 an individual) " I an1 going to

O', 0r vour hou .e at it.;;;; co.3t to build. dcp1·c-':iation? " ·

The SECREL'<HY roa PGBLJC Lsxus : Arc you ; :;:gning thut the value of the £67 i:ore sh ulc1 h0 L...:682?

}lGORE: Of :m. 1h·,,· n1u~t rcplaCPlll0nt It ib it:i•·nloas to ..; . th 1t. you arp goip~r to t:1.kc it OY('l' :--~t its ( ··)-;r of constrnction. It j~ :1ll Hurr.~ense to t.alk about the incotning tcn·~lft., and about \Yi:-hillg 10 fn~e hl111 frorn any victilnitwticn. Tlw intorning tenant hcb Hothing to c:o \Yith lt. An individual has tnke:n th• ironLle to nnt di)·wn a lmre. and the Couttni -~ioncr L~n·s tha,~ b~ clc~ircs to take oYer th8.t water sl1ppl~T at its co3t of con~truction. te:;..,:; depre{:iation. TlF~ Connni:::sioner can sink hi~ owu bore, lmt he dof'::' not \Yant to do that. l1P wanb to victi1nise the indi\·idu .. d "ho has takC'll the ri-.,k of sccui'iiJg the I'- ~t0r b:· taking it over at cof't at the time it v,-a'" put di}\.Vn. If ht~ doe::: not \YU.llt

to do thn.t. then \Yh~· i~ this proYi~ion in the Bill'

Th0 SECRET! RY FOR lJrnr..rc L.\xns : The Bill is oppo ,pd to Yictin1isation.

~'lr. ~IOOTIE: The Rill givf's tlw Land Ccmrt right to fix the Yilluc, but lirr1its it bY sa\ that it shall not be IllOl'f' than tlH· 'bal, cu~~t. dcprcC'iation. That is

and 1s put there for a the :J.Iini~h~r intend

to co1nply \Yit.h tl1 :1 t part of tb" Bill pur tL_'l'f' for a ddinitc purpose. and allov: the bore io bt taken OYf'r at lc~s than it~ prt>s.ent ,-ahr- ? That i~ \vha t it i~ thc-rP ~~o1·. Yon do not in~0rt n. pro\·ic.ion like th;;t unlcJ.;;, you int('nd to limit ihP ,dnount of colnpf'n-3ation a rnan rnay rccei..-c.

If the GoYrrmnf'nt W\"'t'C' pr r1 to b·' fait to th0 indiYirh.·d IYho rlo1.-·n th bore. the: \V0~1ld ]r-a..-•· the qucst1on of COL.lpen~a1·ion tD the Laud Conrt. The Land Conrt to-da.· Ullt1cr ordinan· conditio-· s determine.;;, \d1at i~ the fa.lr ,:alvc of n1·oncrt"' ... n --u:necl. If :a rna:1 is to }~aYP hi-. '~'atf'~· taken a\Yay fr<nn hirn, he i: entitled to it.;; prc ent-day co-t -·-not to \V hat it co~t hi::n to r~·(•a_tc t\:ver:t;. or 1hiri. ye. rs ago. ]c ~: dcp1'C·crahon. If v:l' allov' thi'" clans.: to g\) throu · :1 \vithou1· an l~ffcctiyc protc t, \Ve ~11all ha'"c the Go\:<~rnmen_t _later on propo~ing ro resUL1C

hou~rs Hl the c1t10,;; on the sa1ne basi...:. Thero is no argu1nent in the tn.attcr, and lhc propo:- d i;" rr:o:;;t lH1jnst to the l.!.lan \, ho t .. Jo:, the· risk of putting down tht:- bore-.

I :c~k thC' ~linist"!' to look at t1L 1nat1 •r f:·orn a rcac;:oil.J.blc point cf Yil'\'·. ThP Jn,tn \Yho ha) gone cut west. put do1Yn bore...:. and crcatt'd s ttl('nl0llt and W(<ll1h haf-l a l)l'OpPr

aud just rigl1t to the Y.alue of 't~{nt ass~L and should not be Yicthuisccl bcca.us.c thL• Conltnis-;ioncr of Irri()'ation \Yho ha ::1 been appolntr•d to concfuct ~n instruinentalinundrr the Crown, laYs it do\Yll that he ha·s the right to take o\·cr a \York at a price ic·:s tha11 it y;:onld ( :Y.t to con:-3truct to-daY. I hopr that tlw :::VIinistcr \Yill delete the last fr,,· \\·ords of the clausf'. If the hon. ~rcntlctn'a:n canuot trnst tl1e Land Conrt. tflf'Il he should abolish it; but he ha, no right to

fair The it is

.. If thr· hlltl in 1'•' p( t c_.f wh1ch cOn1-1 1 h tb L"cn ., gret>d p·n-·:ttio:~ i~. a·. ;\1 '~_\,\

10 h·· r t1•_1 1"' -udJ ~·t court l~J.ll. Ul':~n mortra~:t n\.--t-rd i·.a~ o:: : CJ <l'' i..~ the nur-

~ltr b:.: p:ld c::.:...chnq.c~ cf.the po

1' ?(t' bt. o:· 0 [ p_art th~',I'OOJ. ~o f1.r

c uJ.t~pc•l:futlon \nll go.

It '<\ill l)-~ :"o-t:C·!l that :tll r;r~htc..: .an' _carpfuUy rdf'll ln ~-oll'lt et ion \\ itll c}thcr p~·o

Ulltkr--· <.~IHl thnt \~·lth LOt sa v anything about

. t l , n'P(' lJl'C~ll- (' Yf'l'V CO"lpC•Jl:"-i1tlOH Olll'~ ~'=''' .·t. , ' littl· \Yill b.• paiL1 attrr dPpn .. 'cla\Ion n ...

('nknlntcd. T~kP the C'-::'P of t!10 l)~lY'1' of a prup rt, · wbo paid tl f'~n· T_r~r·c,

!->], 1 ;P~""' ht'Can..:;_;~ r1· 'I'P \V('~'t' water ,·1c :.1t~c~ ~)~·l. .t\1·,_, ~ . :-\ntl1in0." llkP ~nl'h a pne0

r1uld p '~d if the vn:dcr bad nr~+ b"t'll aY Y\ hen tho-P f<lcl]it}p;; an• t l1u! nlJ.n "IYi!l h(~ de priYet1 of

1_,f CIJnlpcn:,ation unlet·" hP has pnotu_;·]t to pre..-cn:' itenti:::;cd

~ .:up~1ly wh 1 jt, \Va"i yp- r.:' Q'O. I do 1~ot ::;:.u]P10~t) one

1n a· hu!Hlt'I'·•J rloc~ th;lt. If it. i::- not and tlH~ purcha~er is UlHtbh~ tu ~apply

Mr. Swayne.]

90± Water Bill, [ ASSE;\IBL Y.] Wa:er Bill.

the item is ·d cos!", he "·ill be depriYed of an:· chance of con1pensation. The more this dun~~· i.: discus:::ed the 1norc n1anifegt its unjn:-:;tuess lJC'COlnes.

lioK. \Y. II. B.ARNES (Wynnum): Before thi~ clrtu~t> goes through-and 1 haso no doul1t that it jll g-o throng.:h, because the lVIinistct' ·v:ill lJOt li:-ten to rcason--1 \Yi:;.h to nHtkP a fl•y; rcnlil. rks. )i ppar0ntl.v the hem. .!.tL'llt1c•n10_n ha~ rnadc up hi:-> Inind a bout eert:-till thin~::· .. ~nd, n0 rnattp · ,,chat argHnh nt-., arC' ;_t(h-a!H·f'd, lH.:. "\\-111 not chang0 hi~

T}w -\\'holp c~au"c ;~ particul ... _r]y Thc,tf' ~~ pnrhap~ on.0 sligh_t _r0drcn\

1no· fe~1tnrc :m Jt~n<PlH•lv. t.nt tLnt:Y clay . .; n~"t.ic ~· "1E~1-. l)e :. iYC'n. \Yhc n the time has (•xni1·-:d, if th Goy, rnrnt>nt nnd the tenant fnil to n--rc,~. '.Yllflt hnnppn~'? It n1a:; go to t]1(~ Lflnd Cm.1rt. 1mt thP n1o~t p-;;:truorc1inar~' ('Ol~tE1 ion rd- · ·~t; it. : t1wt. tLO'lp:h it. may he l'r't'Prrt'd to th0. L<.lPd Court, the YPry T nnr1 Court itwlf is tiPd h; nrl all<l foot. Thr> 011h~ thinfl." 1hat C'ClT! bn dono is to go alm1.~· tlw line . .; of nw.kjng pPrf0cH: .~urP that. ro alrtonnt 1~ to h0 paid nlorc than the \'aluatir:n nH"tdc_:. hv thP ~Iini:-t0r. Such a clau"'C' i:; prrfe~·tly valurlcs~. rtJ!d is 1 most px_trarndinar;- pro:10'0: l on ilw part of th·c GoYPl'll· mcnt.. I n:-:;k tbr: ::\fini::t0r-nn(l I llO\v speak c:f ~omC'thing abont 1,rhich I kno\\-to take Dl'Oilertics anv,vherP he' likt'~-sav a. hou P huilt fift,•cn ;;oars ago. There can be !lO

comparison a" to its adual worth to-dav. if the place has bren well looked after. As n mattf'r of fact.. ther0 arc rnanv place~ C'Onstructed fifteen yrarc, ago ''· hich to-dav. if vou deducted df.nrcciaiion, W011ld haY~~ no \·aluc at all lrft.. The whol0 "cahooee" would go. Thi" is merelv a BolshPYi't !llOYP. anrl 1 ask the Mini·t<c>r if ·he thinks that it. i' just.

Tlw i'\Ef"'<ETc\RY FOR Penuc Ix~;ns: I ha Ye nlrcady made a ~t.atcrncnt.

Hox \V. H. BAR::\'RS: I am ven· sorn· T clicl. not hear the. hon. gentleman: This clausr is going to be one of those factors which will help keep people off tho land. It i.s no me thc Minister dosing his e:ves to the fact that wherever thPre arr rcstrictione which hctvc the effect of making it morr difficult for nwn to borrow moneY them will be fcwer people going on tlw land. We a.re anxious to do the best we ran for Queensland. and this is Q"oing to help to kill srttletnrnt. and kill Qupcnsland.

Th" BECRETATIY FOn PrnLTC L.\xDR: That i." a rnatt0r of opinion.

Hox. W. H. BARXES: The Minister cannot hrtYC anv icleu at all of what scttlcrnPnt means "·h~n he brings in a proposal of this kind. I ·.•;ould like to know who '' rc."ponsiblc for its i.ntroduction.

The BECR.E'r\RY FOR Pr·nLTC Lc~xns: It rs a \Yrll-ron~idct't'd clocun1ont

Hox. \\'. H. BARXES: This is a clause \>.·hich js going to b0 disastrous to Queensland.

;\fr. C'LAYTO~ (TT"irlr Tiny): I should not like to s0e such drastic legislation as this plac<'Cl on the statute-book ,,itbout raising a rrotr:-:t. The' )Tinl5t<'r rnn~t know that in refnc..,iiH! to accept th0 tuncndn1Pl1t he is depriving the inrlividual of the oppo1·tunitieg that we think: he should ha,·e if "·e are going to settle Queensland satisfactorily. Tho clau::-;f' reads--

" Tlw 1\'Iinistcr n1av, \vit.hont romply~ ing with the provision·. of anY other Art"--

[Jfr. Suxq;ne.

w hi eh shows that this Bill has been brought rn to on•rridc all other Acts-

" acquire any ,:::tlch artesian \Vell or subM a 1·tPsian wPll or tank or dam or other >vork of water· supply or water conser· Yation.''

\Y c a re tr·:;·i11g to induce people to construct watcr-;:~orks in order to co:nseryo \Yater. From titno to tin1o thPy ap11ly to tho Agri~ cultural R•nk for aclYances for the construct ion of the··' -. or'"'• and now under this Bill th0 1\linif'ter ('la1nls the ri[rht 1o acquir,J any of !hc.,e •, Ol'ks; and he will have the right to ~ i'' thn!,. the on1y cornpcnsntion ho ;.-vill pay \'·:il I 1lw aL'hJa I t1st. of construction, less rlr·m·c,., ""'"' : ~ nd, if the owner or Of'cupicr:-'boulcl apJ!Cal against the dh i.~ion of tho :'fini,otc,·, he can onlv do so throurch tho Land Court. This is d_' drastic pie< c of legi~~ lation. The 11inister ought to be able to :-:ec the l'('as.onablene~s of the an1endn1ent, and not onh· allow the or;ner of the waterworks the acn~n l cost. of construction. but also allow hin1 an mnount by way of cOn1pensation forthe loss of snch "orb. In other matters the Lctncl Court· has power to allow compensation. and on this occasion the court should lw gi,·,on ]Jmver, not only to go into the actual cost. but also to go into the question of compensation. I trust the J\linister will see the reasonablPnes·o of the carnegt appear made b,- m cm bers of the Opposition and accept the amendment, as it will be in the interests of land sdtlement in QuePnsland,. and <·'JlCcially in the Gympie area.

At 3.55 p.m.,

:\Ir. RIORDAX (Burkc), one of t-he panel of Temporary Chairmen, rclieYcd ;\lr. F. A. Cooper in the chair.

Mr. DEACO=" (Cunningham): The :\Iinistrr has talked about protecting the· inter0sts of the incoming tenant, and I want to lmow exactlY what he means bv that. I nndcrstand that. he is going to take OYPr the se \Yorks at a rost, less depreciation. whidr in many cases might be a very low sm11. \Yh0n he comes to sublet, how is he going to value that improvement to the incoming tenant? Is he going to put on it the price at 'vhich he took over the in1proYements. or is he going to put on it thr price the wrll is worth to the incoming tPnant? It is quite clear what is going to happen. ThP Minister is going to . take it on•r at a 1ov. rate and Rf'11 it again at a hT,;.rhf'l" rat0. The ~tini :(tcr is going to allow a lrH· price for the water improvement, and sdl it at a high0r price.

Tlw SECRETARY FOR PFBLir LAKDS: ="o.

:\Jr. DK\CO:'\': Of conr,e, the Lands Department "·oulcl neyer do anything like that! TheY will g-et ''""trr facilities at a cheap rnt0, and tl~c incoming selectors will hcYP to pay tlw cnrrcnt yalue for thPm. It is straiuht-out rohhen. It would be all l'ight, if, ih0 ~'lin}st.l'r ,,~as going to allO\',· the i1H on1inrr n:uu1 to ha Ye it at the rat(~ at \ -b1ch l1-P lJougllt it. but he ifl not going to clo t 1-.. t.

Th• SE('R.ET.' RY FOR. PrnLIC L '.XDS : \Vho ~ay~ he i-., not?

:\Ir. DEACOX. The ::\Iinistcr knows that h,. i' not goinp; to do it. and that he will g<'t the highrst price he can for the Crown. The Conuni;,simwr ,,-ill be 111 the same po,ition. and "·ill get the bc·t .-alue for it. Immcdia,tel· he comes to sell hf' will be

Water Bill. [5 OCTOBER.] Water B:ll. 905

like anybody else, and will say, " This land is \\Orth w much bccau:A' it has good water on it," quit~_:. rcgardlcs5 of what he paid for it. It is a different storv when he sells it. It is a r.u;,:_' of getting it "'cheap and selling it dear.

Que· 'ion-Thut the \YOrds proposed to be omitted in clause 72 (Jfr. 81ca,Vne's amendmt1lf) st ,_nd part of the clt=nlSf~-put; and the Connnittl'C diYided :-

Mr. Barb 'l' Bc{1fon1 13ertrnm

., Bnwc Bult·ock Carter Coli ins Cooper. F. A.

., Coopt'r, \V. Dash Dunstan F('rricks

, Gledsou Ranlon Hanson

,, Hynes

AY~:-:, :11.

Mr. Kirwan t,nrf'o \:he Llovd _:_\EcT.achlan :tfullaE 0' Keefc

, P~.ync Pease

'' H:nm. H . • T. ~'mith ~topforc1 'Weir Wilson

,, \Vinstauley ., \Vright

Te/h·s: ~Ir, Dash and :Hr. O'Kcefe.

XoEs, :!J.. J!r. Barnes, \V. H. 1\fr. l\foore

Bell }forgan Brand Kott

, . Clayton Peterson .. Costello lloberts

Edwards , Russell, H. M . . , :Elphinstone , Rnssell, W. A.

Kelso Sizer Kerr 8wavne

., King , Tayior , Logan Walker , Ma:x.well .. \V arren

Tellers: )i[r f'ostf'lll and :J1r. Sizer.

AY1·:s. ::\fr. T.lPWPh'n

., ('onrov

.. .Tnne~ ·

PAIRS. :.'foL:-:.

~!r. Appel neAr on

:: Brtrne~, G. P.

Rewh·ecl in the affirmative. [4 p.m.]

('lame 72 agreed to. ClansPs 73 to 76, both inclusiYe, agTeed to. At 4.10 p.m., Mr. F. ~.\. COOPER (Brcma) resumed tho

chair. Postpon"d clause 55-" Artesian and sub

artr.~ian 1crlls to l?e licrnsrcl "-~\mcmlment (Jir. Cor.ln·)-

" On lim 34, page 21, to omit the \Vords-

',, nd :no sub-artesian 1vell,' " withdrawn.

The SECRET.\RY FOR Pt:)BLTC LA?\DS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gym p£·): I beg to move the follrnYing amendment:-

,,On line 45, page 21, after the word• liable'

insert the words-' in the ~':l.Se of an artesian \Yell.' P

Atnendlllent agreed to.

The SECRETARY FOR FCBLIC LA:'o;DS (Hon. T. Dunstan. Oyrnpit): I beg to move the following· amendment:-

" On line 47, page 21, after the '"ord' pounds'

insert the words-' and in the ease of a sub-artesian \Yell to a penalty not exceeding £50 and a further daily penalty not exceeding £5.' "

Amendment agreed to. Cl a use 55, as amended, agreed to. " ScHEDcLE "-

Clause 13-" Constructional powers of Com-111 ii':!Rioncr''-

i\lr. :YIOORE (il ubigny): I beg to move tho following crnendment:-

" On line 41, 11age 37, after the word~ ' inh-rrupted'

insert th(~ words-

This ,.,, ht

' or shall pav compeiLsation for injury due to ;:~,n:v bUch deprivation or interruption.' "

of the sch(_dulo cl(_ 1 the Coinn1i~,ionlr-

, · I b) To cliwrt, intcrc";pt, o.:1cl store all water in or coining fro'+l a1J~~ strearn or othlr ~our('C'. or in anv 1': LT rf.'~"l'YC or cltcluru.'nt a1cn unde1~ his control, and alter the course of anv such strean1, and t..1ke anv 1\'at()r found under or on any land; ·

" (c) To comtrnct and thereafter maintain, l'l pair, enlarge, alter, and renew a:1y \\ Pirs across any strea1n.

"He shall, when reasonably practicable, proYide other watering places and channel, for the use of adjoining lands in place of thooe taken away or interrupted."

This is a YNY dra,tic departure from the ordinary coursp of justice. Surely indi~ \·iduals, v1·ho in n1any cases selected and Goug·ht land with certain definite rights of \Yater running through it.~ have an unalienalde right to that water! They took up that land quite leg·ally years ago. They have these water rig-hts, to which they are legally cHtitled now: but this Dill 'a vs that the Commissioner can di,-ert or inter:cept all the \\-atc·r that goes through that propertv for ,,. hich tlw owner has paid, and that he" shall in return-

" when reasonabl} practicable, provide othr'r watPring places and channels for the '"" of adjoining lands in place of thosr· taken a"\vay or interrupted.'

It is uot a question of being- reasonably practicablt> at alL Thcsl' indi,-icluals bought l:nrl and naid Pxtra for it becau··e water was running iht·ongh it. In other cases they raid higher n~Hts becau~c the water vtent through it. This Bill seeks to rcpudiatf~ the'io condition~. and sJ.ys that, "'1'1-h·_ n practicable, the Conu11issioncr ma:v supply ot.hcr water~ ing place·. but not in all c .lSf,.. ::\Iy amendtuent in1pli0s that in tho~e eas('s here it is not rca~unably ~n·articablc to f'npply other \\atcritL. placl1:-:, compcn~ation ~hall be pa~ablP fo1 any iujnrv cau~cd lly ~·.nch dcpriYation or int('lTUption of the 1\ater rights. That i.> onh a fair thing. The }rininer know~ that in ('Yrl' c.t::.t~ \YhCn1 \Yater ::·uns lhrough a propcrt> the purcha~~'r oe ~elector tnn::-t pa:v a gT1 ;;1tcr or ITJoro rent for it lw .. · lU;o;c> of 1he fact watf'r is thPrt1

•

It. j.., ah~urd that the GoYl'nln1cn1 ~hould now o..;{'Pk to re]Lldiatc right.-;; that han; c'xisted f, urn time immemoriaL \Yh<•n the Rig;hts 111 -v\Tater Ed \\~at<:'r ConH'l'YDtion and l-tilizario~l liill IYas before Parliament in 1915 I drew att~ntion to rhi:> yer,- thing-. and tlw then Treasurer. ;\1r. Thcodore. srtid 1t \ras nuthinkable thnt anv GoYcrnn1cnt ~·hould take awa~,, the rights of an indiYidual. a.ncl rno\-if';ion was n1ade that tl10s0 right~ shonld be prescn·ed.

Mr. Moore.J

906 Water Bill. [ASSE~IBLY.] Water Bill.

The S.L._'HET_\HY FOR T'CRLTC L_\XDS: If Yon look at the Act. von ·will sec that 1 he:''- y, o~rd;, art' there. -

1\lr. :\IOOHE: If the }fini,tcr \\ill look up ·• 1-ian~arrl." he '-·ill dif'C'DYt!r this c1dinitc sta101ll· nt nutde b :\fr. Tht<>dor~.

The 8.EC"IlET\RY -;_-,,)R Pr~LIC' LAxn;.;: Look nt the Irrig-ation /:~._, t of 1922 and you ·.vill fiud the"<' \Yonh d_....-~10.

:\lr. _:_\~(}OHL: I } : o·,· th ~v are thl't'l'. hut dun 1 ,..._ l1L'f'!u~1-_· :-i~t-.-~·Ll 11+- ln ::\Ir. ;:-_l'h~oc,,;, .'. I 110 ~w~ l lic-,-e t:~:;_t. this"' chu:--takc ill\ 'l\' '1''' ( ~ l_!lu0::.1 L:t\\' right~ C)f rhc•

if the.• Cn:rr~r :1---io~J·l' b:.· pro~1f1l: -

1 [H r-:'!i ll'l~

l:in>. Th0

oi an O\YDt-'l'

,~n right to of tlw

·.r> th:-' f .-.:1- that i1 1-nvav th thai h Y'' a1fC"td"'· brl'l1 p-~i<: for.' and

\' j·n otlwr c:L.:;:_~ ''c b:._•in"· )::id for o-..:c-r a nLuttbc'r of Y' ,r.;:., Thr• racrl' fnct that tl1i Bill pbroga1 ·' tho:-.p riQ.ht'< dot•:-; not. t,.-.kf a1 -.;· t!~e comnwn l. \V right~ of in·Jiyidual< I knov; tb·u th. p<"J_rt op; o··ite. with their tllt!jorit:.·. nPl.V l k(• .l·,,a·. the rights nf indi\·iduals i;1 Bill ~ut'h :.t th!:-. JlC'Y('rthc-less th'; GoYPnU11"llt arc 1iah:r• for <1an1age" vvlH'll an individual pro\·c~ damage~and \Yilfnl darnar·p, as this y.;ill lH'. \Yht•n the' r:.lg·ht~; in \\..:::ttPr and \Yater Co .. ...;ervatiou and L_,.tilizatio Ar:· .,.aCj bAorc 1his f 1llamhc'r I spokP to the drnftsnwn. and lH adJnittPrl that_, if .u rnan h: d anv ecnnrnm1 la\Y rip"ht:::. the nlf'l'C }.l<l·""""·' of t1l; Act clid nol' tak0 tho~e rjp:ht~ a\\'aY fl·orn hi:n. )Il·. ThPodnn• also adrnitted that. fa"t.. altho•1gh Jw Jc,,·liiw<1 to rcn1ovc th,~ ohno·-::1on clan~c frmn the BilL 1t look'-' a 1l 1'1g1H to r~·ad tl1at. a rnau n1a:,· int:•rcPpl tb'=.' \YHH'l' and nroyidc oi'l1LT \Ylltt'1:inc·· pla('r· where l>racticaLlc, but that r1oPs not go ncarl:. far rnnt':'·h. SontP pl'C·Yi:~iO.!.l ~.hould be tnadt~ proYidin,~· fqr c01ll!H'r ~1tion hy the Land Court or oth0r court io the indiY~dual so

tr0Pi (1. ThP lll1'rf' stntPHH'llt that ion ol.tt~1in~ in a p1'C'\·iqt•:;: Ac-t.

ju--tif:v i"f·; ineln':ioil in this B1ll. .-.nd thi"'- antrt_dnlt'nt -~yiJl 110 :JCC•'fltPd ~o

t]· ·:t a' lee 1 fai1· pb~· \\ill he plT·Yicled for the i~ tli ,-;t:urd.

Tlw SECRETARY FOR Pl:DLIC LA:-i"DS {lion. T. Dun·ia· .. G:,· zJir): 1 cannot accept thP :uncr.d.n1f'llt., ln:cu.u~~ the inclusion of the ,,-ced~ prO[)Osrd \YOU1{1 h:ad to cnclles:) litigatio!l in smr: ll n1atters. The ·wholr: of clause 13 of the snllpc(ule 1~ taken IYOrd for '\Yord fron1 .. pction 14 of the Irrigation _.:-\et. and the::.c \Yord~ nn' al-,.o froin that section-

'·_:Hu -.b.cdl. "·;]H•n reasonably practicable. provi<1 other \Vatcring-plares and {;hannpi~ for U'-'e of adjoining lands in plat,_• of taken a\\ay or inter-rnptcd.''

Tl1al Act ha'< be, n i11 foreo for ~on1c tin1e, and of the olJjections Essunlr-d by tho L~'·Hl.-'r the Oppositio11 hct\'O a1·iscn.

l\~r. }~_I'v""--: 1t doe~ not follow tlwt th0v \Yill not a l'i;;;c 1n tlw 1:.car fnture.

Th> Sl,CltFL\RY F()U PCllLlC L.-\::\DS: I <~Hl sat1~fl0d that no injttstlf'e will take p1act· front t1 -' r0-l'lHlctnlcnt. of n sirnilar cla11~~ .. , u.nd I cannot accept. the arnendn1ent.

:'.Ir. I<:I:'\G (Logan): The ~Iinista seems to think that, bec:tuse of the fact that a ~imlla.r ~)1'0\"i"ion is i; cludPd in the Irrigat.ion Act ar·cl ;:;;o far has caused no injn3tice, it is eafc to iuclncl0 it in thi" Bill. The hon. gPntleman al~o says that, if this amendment

[Jir. ll! oorc.

were put in the Bill, it would lead to cnrlL·'~ litigation in snudl matters. I a:;k the =\lini<ter to analyse the amendment and r'ne 0xac-tlv \Yha:t jt 1neans. In the firKt place, V'C kll")W 'the Cornn1issioner has po""·er to construc:t \\·orks, to obtain sources of supply. to di,~crt. int,~:rccpt, or alter the course of HIP- stream, ancl that h0 :::.haJl, "\:vh0n n:a·,on-

prarticablf proyjclo other \'i;atering-nnc1 channels for Lho use of D.djoining

in 1ll c~ of tho:5c taken a\-.:ay or interTiw acldit]c,11al ~,yorcls ~inlp1y say

1 rH r. i.:5 ally injur~T follOY\-ing upon (L·pri""i. t:on o.t· intorrnptio:n, then co.in

h .ll be paid. \Vill the :J.linister person who is injured js entitled

to _·c~::.lpc•n' ti:n1 '? That i:-, \\·hat it an1ounts 1 o. The -·.le .dnu:nt ntcrc{y f:ccks to provide conlp .a-· 01. t ion injury has occurred. Tlw dn c

•·.tlf' !1all. ·when rc<J ,on ably practicable, pro,·idr:' othPr \Yatering-places and t·hannPls for tlw use of adjoinjng lands in pLec of those takPll R\Yny or interlllpted.'

Snppo.sing: it is not rca:-onably practic:1ble, what i.s the rcnH· ·]y '?

The SECHET.IRY FOH Pt:BLIC LA:\D~ : A lot of people imagine injur:·.

1\J l'. KIKG: It 1s not a question of l1nagina tion, Lut a question of fact, \vhich ha3 to be decided. If it is inwgination, it ranltot be uphc.id; but, if jt is a question of fact. it can be upheld.

The SECRE1ARY FOH PcBLIC LANDS: It tttkl'S litic-ation to proYe it.

:\h. KI::\G: The ::Yiiuistcr can be sure that llO }H'r· .. on i~ going to the expense of litigation un1t·~s he has a re;.tsonablc hope ol f.-ne(·,;-;:... }J c is not going to prejudice his holding uu1es.s he has a reasonable hope tA suect. , '· [ \Yant the J\1i!11~tcr to trv to rcc:ogni~c that thPrc- u1.1y he ca.-,~s ":here tlwrl' i:1 811 injury. and if tlwre haye been such ea~~'-', in comrr1on fairness ~hould not the pc1·~on who ]~ iujurcd be entitled to t·On1neusution; 01w do£!s not lik0 to think that' thP GoYcrnrnent. b€'c 1Ust~ thcv are a.ll]10\Yerful. are going to ride roug}{'<hod over t·YC'rybod;- by legislation, and dcprjye pPoplf' of thE-ir right~ Uti rnl'rabcr~ of the COD1ll1Ulli1y.

The 8Ec~lET.I.HY FOR Pr2:.L1C L.·'i.XD~'!: The Cornmi~sioncr i.:< not a predatory person. J-Ic is n··-t going to dcllri\"C <UlY u1ernbcr of thr re 'lJllunit:, uf his ri~;hL:.

:Sir. 1\:I:\G: I an1 not suyjng anything ag-ajn:;:t the Connuissioner. bnt I \Yant some pl·oYi.-ion jn the Bill so that any person v;ho i" injnrcd \Yil1 rc-C'eiYc C'mnnensation. The- J\Iint:-;tcr ought to reconsider this n1:dtPr.

)duenthncnt (Jlr. Jloorc) ncgatiYed.

:\Ir. S\YAY~:E (J/ir<'ni): I beg to moye t1ll fullo\Ying mn0nchnent :~

';On 11tH's 16 to 21, page 38. o1nit the 1,;onb--

' In any ::.u-ch r<l:.0 nonC' of tho proYi~lons of the Liquor Acts, 1912-1923, slmll npply to the cstablishlllCf!.t. n1anagcrnPnt. or c11Tying on of u·h pre1niscs or businc·~.s.'"

In addition to gi,·ing the Commissioner the necc~' ary powers to construct :nd maintain .streanl:-;. chan11el~. acqnir0 cc1ncnt. workA, Inincs. any sa\vntil1, and the various things

Water Bill. [ 5 00TOBE'<.] Water Bill. ()07

that. n1av lJc necessary for the prosecution of hi' tr~1st, this dau.<'e of the schedule also giyes the Cornrnissioucr pm''Or to establish--

" (i.) Any hotel, accommodation house, or other prcrniscs for the use nnd accomrnodation of the pub1ic, and carry on ther~_,in the busin1Y:;s of tho ;:;ale '1nd V supply of 8pirituous and fermented liquors. In any such case none of thl' provisions of the Liquor Acts, 1912-1923, ~hall apply to the C'staLl.!slnn(•nt rnm1-agcmcnt, or carrying on u£ such premises or bu·,,inc.;;J."

J IJI03t c,'l·taillh-- think that. if th0 Comn1i~siollL"' de jrcs t'o CUfl'V on ~nch busin•,ss, he ~dwuld be subject to~ the scunc~ r~gulations nnd the trne control as anv lie( used Yi~tualler. \'{e all kno\Y that thC Co1.!1missioncr hin1s0Jf Y. ill not tak0 charge of surh busine,;, but that he »·ill Lppoint somebody in hi~ place. Onlt:ss the ~anw control i;;; t'XPn _;sed as in th0 ( 13C of a priYate bu~incs~, abuse-, nuty take place. The :J.,Iinister \.ill ~ep the rcasonablenc~~ of this runendnlf'nL as the Conunissionc1· ~hould enjoy no rnrJrC' pri \·ilegcs than an• ~.,'i.Yen to an",·on<1

t'l~c who is carrying on this trade. In these industries the employees can go to the .Arbitration Court. an<l wh,· should the\" not come under the pl'OYisiom 'of the Liqu.or Act,;"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA:\"DS (Hon. 'T. Dunstan. Gym pie): To make the clause clcarrr, I propose lo n1ovc the insPrtion at the end of ~nbclausc (5) of the \.Vords-

,, This paragraph shall only appl:~· to lrri.rration areas or to land upon \vhirh \Yorks are bcinq- carric<1 ont ·within such irrig-ation areas."

:.\Ir. RoBERT'": \Yh,v irrigr i ion areas?

The SECRETARY FOR l'[~DLIC LANDS: \Ye han' found by exjwri<'nce th"t under tlw Liquor Acts liquor of more nr le's dubious ·qnalit\v <:J.n be brought into irrig-a tlon area;;; and sold to the \YOrkPr~ t.1lcrP. ·cndur thrsp circun1stanccs, I think the part nf the f'la1Fe Ychich is now ,,Jught to be clcletecl should stand.

1.Ir. l\lOORE (i1ubi(!J,.1f): It is absurrl for tlw 11ini~ter to say that berau:;:c ~1y-grog selling goes on in an irrigatlr:m area the Con1n1i~,ioner should be allowed to kt'ep O)l<!ll his hotf'l day and night. Doe:-;: tlw l\llnistPr rn0an to saY that the Comini.5':ionor is not to be unde1; anv control \vhateyer. ntel'elv because th( GoYC.rninent f'annot ('Onh·ol ~ :-:.1~·-grog selling in those areas?

The SECRETARY FOH PliBLIC L.lxDS: The Crown can do that now.

]\fr. JHOORE: Of eour'·e the Crm\n can do it; tho Crovn1 does an -.:orts of ridi('tdOUf" thinp:s. \Ye do not want to gi,-e the Crown the opportunity to etart hotels in irrigation arPas and to be outside the nroYision: of the Liquor Acts. "

~Ir. O'I(EEFE: They c1o not do it at Babinda.

:\h. :\100RE : They arc unrlcr the Liquor .:\et~ there. They neYer asked that tho Babinda hotel should be outside the Liquor ~

1

\Cts.

:\Ir. O'KEEFE: It is not under the Liquor .\ds.

}h. MOORE: Of course it is under the Liquor Acts, and it is subject to inspection like :,ny other hotel. This clauee in the

schedule pro\ ides that the Commissioner may run a hotel in an irrigation area as he lik0:-; and not be subject to the Liquor Acts. The fact that, as the ~viini~ter sa~·s, the worker:; 1nay g0t bad grog is no rpason for giving this ilntnuniiJ.

}lr. O'KEEFE: The Stato hotel at Babincla does not open until 9 o'clock in the 111orning.

1111-. ::\IOORE: \Yhat is the rcaJon fm· placing the Conlrnissioncr outsid2 tho Liquor .A.ets: If tho Liquor .Acts are good for anyone 0lsr why f:hou1cl they not be gootl foi' tlw Connnjs~ioncr of Irrigation? I cannot ~cC> ll::.L' sligh1c~t reasol.!. or sense in allo;.Yin-:,

this sort of thing to go .on. DoPs [4.30 [l.ln.] rhc ::\Iinistn· want to keep a hotel

open 1onge1· or kc·ep later hours: or doe:-' hP \Vil.llt. to be frep of th0 snpC'rvi::'ion of inspedori' ·~ \Yhat earthly rt?ason can he h<..:.v"? l < au understand the Ccnnrnjs.sioncr wanting to l"Ull hotels a..ncl UF 0 the 11r0fits for irrigation purpc~cs, if they are profitable; bnt I C1Jl!lot "-ee any rcn ·,on for \Yanbng the hotels. to be outside the orlinar:: il~S.i)CCtiou '"hi-eh the priYate in<lividua] h2s to undergo, and I c·annot SC'C \Yhv thcv should be outside tlH' law as to hour:. I ~hopo the ~Hinister will be ab!" tD g·iye us some l'l:lSOHable exctHe for it, bcra t\~e the exp1anation he has giYon does not ju·>tify 1110 in agreeing to the 1·idiculous suggestion he l1as 1nade.

0PI'OSITIOX ::\IE:~IB:..:HS: 1-lC'ar, hear l

Hox. \Y. H. BAR:\'ES (TrJtmmm): I am SLll'prised at wtho explanation of the ~\linistel.'. He praet.ically said, ·· The Coilllnissioner call carrY on the bu;;;illC:"S inst as he likc\s." It lc~:1k's as though '>,7 0 a~·c going along thcsP lines--on tlw Ollt: hand tightening np and n aking- it difficult eYen to grt ,,·ater, and 011 th~ othf'r hand saying·, '·Let us sell as tuuch drink a.:3 \ve po· -.;ibly can." That i::; rc'a]!y what it rncans. IIas the 1linistcr tnade l!~) ];is 1ninJ. that, after the n10n have earned their 1noney. he \i ants the111 io spe11d as rnuch of it a' he can get at his hotels? It looks unC'ommonh~ like il. It seems as though he \Yont::; to u1akc a paying proposition ?f it. [ haYc Jw\·er read such an ext1.·aordrnar;; dau~e. It takes a \vu·'"'· the ordinarv saf0. £-;'Wrds-if tht_l·c arc aD~·-and lets then1 go just H:" they please. Fancy a dcn1ocr~tic :.\Iinister in democrrrtic GoYcrnment bring-ing· doFH a dau, c : The hon. gentleman 1·:ould be ,. ell ach~ised to accept the amend· Jnent. \YlH .. 1 ncc: co1nes the arrangement., 'vhich has been n1adc on eyerY occasion that the ~ale of strong drink 1.) ~t-o be unrestra-ine-d. unc.l tha 1 here :,·on can go just as you pleaso fllH1 haYe a good titnc--if then~ is a good l lntc in gettiug a bad head-because the C:o'· Pl'llUlC'Ht c,;ay, " \Ye are going to give you freedom-freedom. if need be. to spend eYcry ln·a~:1 farti1jng you hu,-e parncd ::-o that ,~-e llEt<: our y atc-r\vorks done in a certrun ·, \Ya;,

0PFOSn iO:\ =\It: JIBEd): 1-l'<U', hear~

:\Ir. :\L\X\YELL (TooltOII(J): I quite agn ' with the rcu,arks of the Le' tdcr of the Opposition and the hon. member f01:. \~'yn· nurn. I certniu1~· eannot ::-ee why the 111nu-tel' r-ar~uot arccpt the anicndrnent. un h. ;;.s he has realised that the Liquor c\ct. which ha' onl,· jn~t pa::-:-;ul 1his Chan1bcr) a.J1o·q·;;; insufficient tiHlC' fur drinking. It is well knO\Yll that durir:o· thuir dailv avocations these men 'vill not l{;,n, the op[)ortunity to frequent these tiquol' shop::;, but. there is nothing to pr0vcnt th8 landlord, the Co::nmisoionrr, stocking

Mr. Maxwell.]

()08 Water Bill. [ASSEMBLY] Water Bill.

them with whatever kind of liquor he pleases -because he is not to be subject to insp<:ction -so that we shall havo a veritable hdl there night and day. I cannot understand a Govemment who talk so much about humani· tarian legirlation contemplating a clause such as this. lf the :Yiinister will not accept the a.n1end1nenL I f'incerely hope he ,.,.111 po:::tpono the schedule until he realises tho position in which he ie placiug the people. I cannot understrmd his attitude. It is the State w-hirh should sPt the exarnple. Law1nakers should not be la,vbrcakers. Yet here is a l\{inister a~king for roncessions 1vhich he is not prepared to give anybody cls0. Instead of tightt~niru; up the law. he proposes to 1nake it as ()fastic as po~'~ib1e. I ho110 that a divi,cion \\·ill be called for, so that th~ ]mblir ma.v clr~arly understand the position.

Mr. KELSO (Xunrlah): This is a most extr'-'-ordinarv clau:~c. \Ye have to Le constanth· on tl1e \Yatch to see that some little insidi~us provision i·" not introduced. This is the only clnu'e which provid" for the ><uEpcnsion of the law. The Cmnmis.doncr can bu·; all eods of things, but there is no quc,tion of 'tlspcnding the law with respect to tho:"~' rnattPr:", or ~~lspcnding the llrovi~ sions of 1hc Arbitration Act to enable the workers to work any time the~ lik0. \Vh> are the provisiom of the Liquor L\ct to he snspended' Is this the thin edge of State control of the liquor trade? If so, \Yhy not sav so diroctlv, and not in an insidious wav? J lmdorstand "that the State hotel at Rabinda is overriding the law as it is within the prohibited area. Here we htn-e a clause nnblushing!y suspending the law so that the Cmnmissioncr can keep open house for twenty-four hours of the day. I take it that those in the irrigation area should be protected by the Commissioner, instead of having facilities for drinking as long as thev like. The police will not be able to interfere. Sur<'ly the Minister is not going to permit snch a ciause to pass ! It is a bsolutelv intolerable. and I hope that lw will not proceed with the clause, but will accept the amendment..

Mr. TAYLOR (Windsor): We have had ROnle extraordinary clausE'-; contained in Bills introduced into th]s Chamber during the past few years, but a more disgraceful clause 1 do not think has ever been introduced for the consideration of a Parliament. It is no credit to the Governn1ent and I certainhc think the l\Iinist01· spoke with his tongue in h1s ~heck when he gave his n:pbnation for the mtrocluction of this clause. It has been c.t.atod ~hat it does not n0oc,sarih· mean that the Commissioner is going to run the hotel. fJut h0_ can CrYlllloy an:vonc elsf' io do so. and llllmNhatcl:· he do<s. that individual can keep the hot cl open for twcnh-four hours a dav without an~~ rf'sponsibi(it? for pl:o,r}ding. accmnn1odatJon for a single 11crson. Thev can build any kind of shJ.ck tl1cy like_ ·

}fr. M.IXWELL: A drinking shop.

:\f;·. T XYLOR: . I~. really appears as th<_mg-h the clause JS mtendcd to provide a drmkmg ;;hop for the degradation of the· men 0mnloyed on tho v·orks. Xo othvr intcrpre! a ~wn can be p la cod on the cl a use bv the J-hmsh·r, and I hope. for the crcd.it of Q1_:

1;cns!and and t_hc Go;~ern1ncnt. that the.~r

WJJ< wJthdrav_· tlns portion of thP Bill and accept the_ amenclmcnt. \\'hv should the Go,·ernnwnt he outside the cx1stin<s law? The laws are for the protection of the public,

[Mr. Maxwell.

and here Is ::t danse 'vhich takes awav the· protection afforded in tho exif-ting r;iquor Aet, and the j'v[inister cannot give us anc' ~atj·;;factorv reason for such a dra··tic st~;p. I \YOuld iike to see the clause \Yithdrawn, lmt, in the alterna.tivc, I hope the Ministee will accept tho amendment. How hon. members opposite• who claim to be up against the IiCJnOr intere.:ts can support anything of tlHtt nature, God onh7 knows: I do not. Tho '.\hole thing is a dl""gracc to an:: Governrnont. anc1 PO v;ords we can utter in objection to the Jn·opo..:al can be too ~trong.

:'\Jr. ~.10RG \X (Jluri/1"): If tlw Cmnmi. · :;iouer ~-a~ leaning,; to>Yards ic:nperanct"}, he n1r. prCYL" 11t. all~"' li.Iuor froru bclng sold in the area. 1d~1ch he control~. v;hilc. on tlH" other hand, if ho happon' ro be in fuyom· ol !iqHO'-', he mny con\'t'rt that an:.:t into a "bcf'r hums'" paradise. (Laughter.) _ffn cnuld. if lw ~o desired. kPep open a botel in his area from 6 o'clorl~ one Inorni11g: until 6 o'clock the nc.-xt n101:nlng, Sunday includNJ~ \Yhil0. on the nthcr hand. if h{~ ·was a t"DlJl0l'allCP aLh-ocatE~ and abstainer. hr~ could irnpo~c proh]Lition in tho area. So far as I can f'C'P, the clan."" cui.-; both \Yfl~,-.-,.

T umlet·,tancl it. is ilw intPrJtion of the }fini:'.b:'r to appl:· the dan~P to such plac0~ as Ca~tl0 Crc>t•k, "Whi('h I llOVY bclif'Y<:' is callf:'d Th{'odore. A gr0at rnany n1crnber~ visitf:'d l'a,tlc C'n'Pk. \YP know that no hotPl ha--been cstabli~hcrl in that area, and we also· kno\V that liquor in bottlPR i~ take-n fron1 adjoining hotels and ;old in thr district. The idea of the Comtni~sioner js to run a hotel nt Castle {~reek. opening thP prcmit-:f'S from 9 o' clork iu tho Inorning· until 5. 6. or 9 u'clock at IJig·ht. and ntili"ing the profits in beautifying the area.

}lr. KELSO: He can do whatcYcr he likes with them.

}lr. 1\IORGA::'\: That is so. Perhaps under the g-uidancC' of our pr(~~ent Commissioner no· harryt would result from tho clau.--.c: but under another Commissioner liquor m1ghi he consumed indiscriminately and abused in ,.,:ery ohape and form. \Ye. arP not dealing \Yith this matter from the point of view of the incliYidn~tl, lmt from the point of view of prin<"iph,: nllcl in doing '::0. "\YC n1u:-5t "C'fr

to it. that all lionor sold or consnm~d is control!Pd bv the J,iquor "\et., jnst as it is controllccl in other arrac .. I cannot for the lifo of me sec \Yh\ this special pri,·ilPge shouldhe conceded to one particular portion of Queensland. '"" are here to legislate for thf' whrlc of QuP(~n~land, and v\-0 ~hou1d not pcrn1it nny Ol!C di~triet to haYe the 011pcw~ t unit.y of obraining liquor nndPr condition'' and hol'l'S whil'h do not ohhlin in othN parts of th0 Shl<'. '·' hik, on the' <Jther hand. wo ~hou1J. not f'nn:·;c su{']l areas to be ronv0rted .into prohib~tio~l tl rcr.~ C':XCCllt by the vote of tllP rcoplC'. So far ai' I can :;:.r P. the propo.~ J nHl~' do illjurv to either rllc t::rnpernn 'C' {)J' th0 liqnnl' int<'rf..l.·-:t,_ ThP ::\liniRtcr wonlcl he well tHhisccl to ec'r thot. the provi~ion dot'~ nnt p;iYc to t1w C::-Hn:nis:-;1oner an} LlOl'P rights or ])O\V'l'l':"t than are held l1v <1

hotPlkc, per in an"' oiher part of 1hr St.atr.

Mr. COLLI:\'S (Bnll'en): I would certainlv like to hear the JYiinister give a further c'cnlanation in connection \Yith this paragraph,L wl1ich I realise is going a long '"'" indeed in the matter of the sale of opirituous liquor. I want to knm1· what is. at the back of this paragraph. Does the

Water Bill. [5 Oc IOBER.] TVatrr Bill. 909

'Commissioner view with alarm the probaGilitv of what i·~ known as " sly-grog Bhanties " in connection with the construction of irrigation works?

~.Ir. KELSO : Let the poliec do their duty.

::\Ir. COLLI:\'S: In connection with those irL"igation. work~ it rnay Le necessary to pro,-idc some sort of acconllllOdati()lt. I can spc~tk with cxpericnct" in C'Ollnection with the Bowen coalftcld. 'fhe BmYen coalfwld only recently had hotels. and it "·as preYiously ver_y diffi.f'ult to procure .accon1n1odatlon. I eannot say frv111 rny O\\ 11 experience whether an:v sly-grog selling as going Oil

:there. but I do know that large numbers of bottles were to be seen in Yarious parts of the coalfield before the hotels were established. If we arc to haye drink supplied, Id '" ha,·e it supplied apart from the slygrog "hanty. I haYc no ti1nc for that sort ,of dri11king. If we are to haYc drinking, let it he done in the open. I hope the Min. i~ter will give- us some inforn1ation in ron~ nertion ''"ith this paragraph.

The SECRETAHY FOH P"BLIC LA::-.JDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, O!Jml'i'): The first pari of thi,; paragTaph (i.). to which hon. memlH•r~.:; opposite appare>ntly haye no objection. :giYP:'l the C'otnn1issioner power to cre(:t-

" an~' hotel, accorn1nodation house, or other prcrnises for the• use and accorllmodation of thP public, and carr~· .;1

therein the business of the salP <•nd supply of spirituous nncl fpnnPIJtt•d liquors."

The oLjt'rt of tlw Con11ni~sionc1~ '\ ith ·r0ganl to the scrond part of the paragraph is rc,!lv to control the entry of dubious liquor ii1to irrigation areas.

Mr. TwLOR' Does not !hat control exist 110\Y?

Tl1e SECRETAHY FOR PCBLIC LA::-.JDS :\o.

::\Ir. ~IoRGAX: Then Yon adn1it the inefft•cti\ t'lles• of llw Liquo·,. Ad :

The SECRETARY FOR PL~BLIC LAXDS: Liquor i,· now brong·ht into irrigation arPa~ upon order. \Yhi]P doino· Olll' lw't to prcY('tlt lh(' illq~al sale v/ liquor. '"e belie,·(~ that prl'YC'Idion j- bettf'r tl1a11 cure: uncl. if liquor is to into ir~<g-ntion it i:-' }!(~iter to ha"':P undt>r -~\J· prP:'lCilt IrH'll

PLd and their arc ;-:nffcring. Thr idea of 1L1i~ }E1l'a?;nlph i t , cnal11e the Cornrn1:.:;::-ionc·r to that onl~

( Jd liqUOl' i~- c1i:-:pC'1L"-C't1.

:Jl1·. KEr.::-;o ·. On fnn{\'1 Y" ':

Th, SEC'RI<:'T"\H Y FnR VCBL1C LA:'\DS: :\o.

~\lr. I(ELSO: It <1ur·:" 11ot sny r.J.

The SECRETAHY FOH l'l~BUC Tllc Cro 1 n 'You]d naturully (~i:-'JV'n.sf' fn ac·cordn!K' '";1h the ]n \·. If thcr0 i.::. nny doubt a~ to the C'Ort'rinr~· pl·oy1;.:;ion ruHl thP \Yay it will b0 opl1 1'Htccl. I ,·In r~nlic· prcpar· ,1 to \ ithdrr:_v, it. and lcaY" 1l1c fir~t

i(;n o£ t1w n;!TJ.~.._aph as it rtlld~ .. u.- urc hon. that thP not

to exploit the ~ale liqum_·, to 1·e.orrict it. in the interest·' of ill irriG"<.\tion ar,•rr.-:. I run a crept I he an1cnclrnent.

:\tr. RORRRTS (East TonU'oom/)([): The argnments U:4cd by tho l\lin1ster aro suffl-

cie>nt. to shmv that it would be much better fm the men employed on these works if this provision \YCl'l' not in the Bill at all. Had tlw amenclmP!,t not been moved, l should ha n:- 1 akpn uthcr action.

AnwnchrwLt (Jlr. S1rayn,) agreed to.

Mr. SWAY~E (Jlirani): I beg to move tL~ following an1cndrnent :-

,,On lines 32 10 35.. page 38, omit the ·word:-;-

. In the construction and operation of an:, undl'rtaking Ol' \YOrk-; under this Act or aw.. oth<:r Act, the provisions of the la\Y~ in force for the time being rci:Jting to the ins)Jection of machinery and H·>tffolding shall not appl:.· to the C.Jill!llis.,ioucr.·"

TiH> SECREL\.HY FOR PrDLIC LA:\'ll::l (lion. T. Dull:· tail, Uympir'): As it was rny illtCJltion to lllOVP a. "irnilar arnendn1cnt. 1 accept 1J1c amendment nron'cl lr: the hon. menlbl-.r. L

"~rnendment (Jlr. ·'''m!JII!) agreed to.

:\!r. DHA:\D (JJurrum): I beg to move tlll' foUov~·ing· arncndmeut :-

'· On lin0 36, page 38, after tlw word, Cmnrni:;..:1ioner,'

insert. th0 words-, "ith the consent of the owner or occupier thereof.' "

This :.:uhclausc giYe~ the Con1n1issioner po\ver to "' entPJ' npon any road, land, or premises'' ,~·itllont giYing noti{'c to the ovviH'-r or occupi~r thereof. I maintain that it i,; not right 1 hat. any person or any Gov0n1ment official >hould ha.-~ the ri;,ht to <'ut.er npon any prjyatc land~ to dig antl erect 'Yorks withont fir;.;t haYing giYen the o·.,ner notice of his intpnl ion :'O to do. If it is nec-·'ssar,- for tlw Con1mi:-sio1lf'r to do the~e thing.::.~ it. jg on]·· right that t.hn OWilf'l' should bt~ Ilotificd, <1JJ\l 1 sincPrPJ. tru~t the I\Jinistcr ·will accept t fw an1l'1Hlrnen1.

Tl1c STRL:AHY, OH I'LBLIC L.\XDS: I acc€'pt the cunc11dn1ent.

Arncnduwnt (.lfr. JJnuul} 11_n·0ed io.

:\[r. BE~\.:\J) (Hun·nml: I beg to mcl\'e tlJ(' following aruendrr1ent :-

•· On line 42. pag·e z:., Clftcr th<l \Yord' OJ H~ra tions,'

1>1 cc·t the follo'.·ing pan< graph:-, Cmn]JCn;-,ation ..-hall Lr• pn id to any

pcr:-:;on for th,_ Yn1u, of timhrr or LJfltf'tial t;:~ken. 0r for aay

1 ~ ta.~f' do;w thP ltsc nnd occnpa-1 iou ()[ ~''('h ln· Connn1s~

b,', thP cx:f';'C~ _(~ hirn of confcrn~d b para-

land~·.

The TE:\Il'OR \RY CHAIIUIA :;-: Order! The mT:c·nt~nwnt 1Yon1d i1npo:'lc an additional

O_i tlHl C1·o1vn \Yhich i~ not < -Jvcrrd nH'~:~?.ge fron1 }--li~ li>· ... cp]]pnc>\ the

Lif•nteJJant-GoY('rnor, and I therefore 1~nlc it out of orcl0r. ·

Mr. Brand.]

910 TVorkers' Compensation !.\SSE:\IBLY.] Acts Ailw· dment Bill.

And th ClLUR~L\~-: haYing cgaiu stated tho qucstion-

Mr. CORSER (HN•·n- tt): :\Ir. Cooper, l lllOYC-

" That your ruling be disagreed with.''

The TK\fPORAR Y C'HAIRl\IA=" : Order ! The hon. memb2r should haYe moYed his motion straight a\Yny. I haYe already statPd the question.

Sc-hedule, as a1ncndcd, agreed to. The House r('."un1ed. The TE:\TPORARY CnAIR~lAN reported the Bill

v;:ith an1enchnents.

The third rectding of the Bill was n1ade an Order of the Dit: for Ttu:·sday next.

I';ORKERS' C0:11PE::-IS.\TIO:'i' ACTS A~\lE~D:UE:'i'T BILL.

SECOND RE•.DING. r5 p.nL]

TLc ATTOR:'\E':-GE~ER\L (lion. .T. :\lullnn. Flindr rs): "\s this mc~sure a full:; cli:'CU~;;:r;d at the :;;tu~o 11rior to the fir~t readinc it. ic:, hardlY ncccf'~,arv for 1110 to add YC'r .. I~~ueh nt thi ~ ~tagr:_-.. Of all 1nr- :.Snrc:-3 ]h ~.,cd by the Labunr GoYC'l'lllll('llt for tlte b~'ucfit of the v.-orkpr. J:onC:. -;,yas ~o rnuch 1W:._•ded as the \Vorkers' Cnn1pcnsation Act. \Ye all know that prior to the ildYcnt of the I..,., bonr part: tht' \Y·o1·k('1· did HOt· ~· ·t a. fair dr·c1l under th·~"' \Yorkt'rs' ( 'ompen~arlon ..:\,.___t

it then ('"'\:i-:;te:(l.

An 0Pi'C,-JITIO:\ ~-fE\lTIEI:: r~ h,.___ '"J.tisGcd now'!

TLP _\.TTOR:'\E\'-GE~ER~\.L: He ,,-ill bo ~ati~:icd hen he g'-'1~ t:1is anlClt!in~

Cr·ri .inlv he \nts 'lot. --~ni-dl·.d D ·fon~ got HH' a~rw1.din.~ Ac 1 ,,£ the La Lour

rtlld h0 htu_l Yvry good rl on~ for nov :--:ati:~ftr:.cl.

:11r. lCEnR: Tell th about tilt~ Dill.

TlH: ~\.TTOH.~EY-GE:\ElL\T~: 1 will icll aH aLour it. A a ~,,(;_ttl'l' of faet. in

for eYfTY £1 into 1hc workc•r-·' cotllpcn;-~ tion ful1d un£l;r Hnatc w·orkers goL 6·-. Sd. :--ncl th1 cornpanic~ 13.-:. 4d., and in onler to g't'l" CYf'll th1t 6~. Scl. the,' had in n1o::>t catJC'S to put up a ~crap in court.

:\h. l-IYl\E~: lie tr. hear! \Yo know that, i~ trnc.

~\Ir. l(ERR: TlPtt is not tntl'.

TlH A TrfOR::\""E\-~-GE:"~EIL\ L: Tbc hon. Hl(•tnbcr i~ ._L lH'ophytc_· in politic:-;. aud }w is net att1ULintcd \Yith tht' history 01 the period to \\ hH h I n:kr, bnt) lf he• \\'111 look un 1hc rcu·nb. he \\'i11 ~cc that. thl' court:' "Wt'l"~\ ~un·ca~·onnblv ::-.t-ed ,_xillt ca:-:cl") which \Vt~ro bL·lug fouglit lJ" rich cornpa.nics.

~~Jr. BRAXD: l:Yhcn ,,·a~ th<lt?

';'ho AT IOR~EY-GE~J<:RAL: Prior to 191.5. Thf~ hon. rncn1hcr can get t.hc par~ ticu1ar~ of Cw eJ.:;:;c·s if he is indu;-:.tricus cnou :h t.o Inflkc inquiric

GoYEHN:iiEN'r :MEoJBERS: Hear, hear!

:\Ir. Br ·,xD: \Yhat has that got to do with tho Bill''

The SPEAKER : OrJcr !

The ATTOHNEY-GE:'<ERAL: I am leading' up to that point. To-day, instead of getting 6s. 8d. out of cYero;' £1, the worker gets

[Hon. J. Mullan.

14 _., and t1Jc other 6~. goe~ to\\·arJs arllniniBtration cxpell··C~ and 1hc buildin(I up of l'Cservcs to enable u~ to a1ncud the Act as we arc doing io-day. .

:Yll' .. :VloRGAN: \\~ e introduced the principle.

Th'' ATTOR~EY-GE:'\EHAL: The principle was introduced when then' wcro thirt0 -four Labour n1P1l on this ~idc of th<~ I-louse~ c mnpc1ling· the GoYerrnncnt. t·o do it. UEdcr Lhc 1SJ5 ..:let, to which the hon. n1en1bct refer,, the lwnefits ,~·erC' c.£1 a week on ir;jur:v and ,;: .. ;QJ for total iun:didity or death .. Till' LaLour GoYcrnrnPnt carr1c into power in 1915, and on'~ of tbc (ir:3t rneasurcs they pa~s0cl ILlS to iL:crean' ihc "\Y-.!eld:· allO'>\-ance L.~ lOJ per CP~1t .. rnaking it £2 p(~l' \Vcck, n.11d tlu: paytn<'nt in rhe ca~c of death to ~t.6Cl0. and in th0 c~i::·o of total invaliditv £75!J. Thrn in thP ··.tnoc ye' ll' \\· -~ carnc a1orig 1.,cith tlH~ i11du~tria.l di:::.cu~cs arncndrncnt of tho Jnr:c'Ul'(:, b~v ·\,·hich we included tbiJ victin1s of that awfal (·ur~;c, nlil!crd' 11ht~:is-i~. ::\-o CnYCnlnilnt h ~tl attempted to do an; thing of that k1nJ uni il i11 1916 ,~, c included the principk; but, bad it lLH been that this party

ere rctun1cd in19l3, t.hcit bt~ncfit ,,ould haYo lH·Cll lirrltcd to two years. (Opvosition dis~

1-ToG. ..~ f'all g-nun and 1-vhine, but fact n 1hat the n1itlcrs' phthi~i !)l'()Yi:-;ion::; w·._'t'P ~l·nt, up to thr· l~ppcr I--IousP, ..,,., hich put 1n an arnendtncnt t 1!lat the ~\_et IYrts to operute for t·, o year.:; only.

The SPEAI{ER: Order :

The .'-TT0Hl\EY-GE1'\'EHAL: I am lead-ing up to the nHtttc•r by stage. f-Ion. rneullJCrs or:110 ite do lih:o to hc.ar \Yhat the GoYC'l'lllLC'nt b:1 YC' do..:_c.

Th S PE.\ I( ER : Order : ~\Ijnistor to deal with the Bill.

Tht~ ~\TTORXE'1'"-G-E~~ER \L: I an1 rcf<>l_•nce to the) riou:-, t -~ kPn pin cc f rorn_ tin1c to

nn fo the Bill. In (0~·idation in lT0st

ags.il~ in 1923 \YC' \VCl'O

hcnefih. and

premiunt::;. That i:;; the- 1nJ\V c La ye alrca.rly paid 113.000 £2.500.000 odd. and ihat is

it CJ'Ci1Sil1g tlJo portani IJl1iEt. claitns. son1rth:ing- to ment, and tl'ation houJd clon0 all this

for onr party a· :::: GoYern~ of 1vbi_h anv \dn:.lnis

fr:~l pr01.u1. \l"'._'_tou~h V.'e haYo ~_fl.r tft(or ..-car, "\Ye- hnYc been

\\·ho 11~- the ]JrcJuiurns 0~1 bou;:;e-for fo:.u· ,years. J._ v:ondcrful

Xo-..Y ,, o cou1c do"' n to-da·v \vith a furthcl· mnciH1ilJg Bill. 1Yh1ch ·- \YC shall gi-n) fttrthcr ~ubc.:.t in1nro,~c.,_tc11ts under this lc-r_ri~ 'eH ion. The Bill r)ro..-iclcs for the workr1· rf'. ci..-i~l' si.xty-,~:.'x and h\-o-thirds pCl' cent. of h~:::; nYcrr> 1.ff -..v.._t?ldy earnings np l') a stun of £2 15>. a \YN'k. It also provides that a '.Yorkrr ,,,_-ith dt~pPndants is tn rccciYc not ]c~~ ihnn £2 15;:;. a wct:k, and in the eu:;e of a rn 2rried \YOrl~e1· Yvith a family it proYid<'.;;; fnr a nHt~i1nun1 puym:0nt of £4 5s. a \VCt'k. This i, th0 ;;;cyc:nth a1ncndn10nt of this lPgisl"tion. nnd i~ merely f'arryii~g out the policy of our Gm-crnment, which is to improve tho \Yorkcrs' Couipcn,ation _;H·t. step by step and year by vcar as circulYlstunccs pern1it. I do not say that the legislation, even with this amendment, is perfect. This is by no means-

TVorkers" Compmsat'on, Etc., Bill. [G 0CTOHEl1.] Question. 911

the last word of this GoYemment. So surely as y:e shall rcrnain for a long tin1c on the GoYcrnr11ent benches. so sur·dv "-e 'vill continue to arnend the l~gislation Year after year as circumstances permit. I think, :Ylr. Speaker, you 1nust agree that it is a wonderful trium!'h for our Government, without incrcasi11g the rates one penny on the en1-plos'ers.. 1-o bC' able to increase' the paynH.:nts hoon £1 to £4 5s. a week in addition to 0thn henefits.

::\Ir. MoRGAK: You told us that before.

The ATTORXEY-GE::\ERAL: A good thing cannot be repeated too often. It is ,·cry dista teful to the hon. gentleman. He \Yill rcceiYe manY rr10ro ret11inders of \Yhat the Go\·crnn1cnt have done, not only in -::onnc2t.ion "-it h this Bill but \: ith other B1lls i:hat \Vill Le con~idcrecl. I have Yer.>- n1uch pleasure in Inoving-

" Tlw t the Bill be now read a ececond ti1ne."

::\ir. CORSER (JJurw tt): I beg· to move> tlw adjournment of the debate.

The PHE\HER (Ho11. '\Y. McCormack, (':!1, ru·:): l ',-oulcl like to po1nt.. out th~, t before an\' such 1nution can bP lllo\·cd an arraEgenu-::nt 1na~t. fir t be nli:tdc \', ith tho ~~a(~c1: ~! thf' Uov _:~'~1lncnt thro~-gh the

\\hi['·' of the parnr,.

::\Ir. MOO HE (A. ubiunJ;): I undcrctood frorn tho Sue' k:cr that son!c such arrangernc>nt had hc:en madL'. I hnd been led to bc1ic·q· tbnt ~nch an nrr"_·HgPrurnt had lw,•u come to \Yith the Prcn1ier.

The SJ?.:i:..:\I("ETI: rrbat is who_t I thoaght you said.

The> PHE:\llER )Ion. (',tirn ·): The of the I I one c 11lU:3\j be lrackrs.

\f. ::\1~Connnck, the bnsine:-3s

.:en the r., o

Gcn'l:RX~.lEX1' :Y!r::._,BEI:S: :Hear, hear !

The PllF~liER: I would ha\·c no oLje"tio~ to the adjou~rnJD('llt, proYidcd tlu!_t conrsc had b ~en follo'i'.;ell.

The Sf'E \T\.:ER: Ordc ~ nnclPt' the· ..,;:;ion thut hacl rnadc

Ord•r! I wa:;; tb• ,; \Yhips"

}Ir. COTISER (lfl'r;lr !t): I 1n;dcl' that. 1lw !t:tu b_on mauc. Leader -)f Opposition ?"'ked 1ne to nlcvc the ndjoun11ncnt of the debate.

The PHE~IIER CHon. \Y. :l\Icf"ol·n1nck, ('uh .1s): Let us on no1v. I arn in eh. rge of t!1l' 11 ooinr·' thiR Ilon·J'. I \YOnlcl other-\~. i-'c h:-tY0 r: ' .. :-·,ptccl the 1notion.

The SPEAKER: Ord r! I hope I Inn' not \Yl'onglv undcrdo:;rl that nn n.r.:. ang-E'-11l('Il1- 'lwd been comn to, but I can assure the PrPnJ-icr thnt I undcr;:;tood :"'J.ch an 8.lT''i.DgP1lli"~Ilt had h~cn COillO to.

'rho PRE::\HER : V crv well, I \ ill accept 1 he Inotion. ~

Mr. C'ORSEH (BurY~ctt) : I beg to move the adjournment of the debate.

Quc.~tion pnt and prtsscd.

Th0 resumption of the rlr•bate was made an Order of the Day for Wednesday.

ADJOURJ\'l\1ENT.

The PRE:YIIER (Hon. W. 1\icCormack, Cairns) : I beg to move-

" That the Hot>Be do now adjourn."

I hayc no objection to the adjournment, but for any hon. member to rise in his place and moYe the adjournment. of the debate wit~1out congulting anyone is taking the busmess of the House completely out of the hand, of :he le tder of the Home. :l'\o one knows that better than the hon. member for Burm•tt.

Mr. ConSER: I was merelv asked by my le •der to ll:OYe the adjoni·nmcnt of the eh; bate.

The PREMIER: \Yhv cl id vou not make OlTHni"C'llWlllS 'vilh th.• :, .. ;cJer of the House •

~tfr. ~Ioorm: It wns n1y mistake.

JUr. J3RAK D : It Is nothing to make a fuss aboul.

The T'RE::\IIER: If th~t 1s the hon. 1110n~her'f' attitud12, he will receive no concession-s in the future.

:Y1t·. CoRSER: \Ve admit that there was a n1istnkc.

The PRE?vliER: }.""on haY(' put mP in an nvd~_WJJ'd pos.ition jn rcfu.;;"'Ing- what oth0 r,viPG rni~;ht h'1Yf' been a reasonable enough requr,,t. but this lark of dis<:>iplinc is not c,oinr: to be allowed.

:Ylr. Cousm: Th0re tesy to the leaclc-c intf.nckcl.

was no lack of courof the Government

Oncstion put and passed. The House adjourned at 5.15 p.m.

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Legislative Assembly Hansard 1926 - Queensland Parliament · 2014. 6. 3. · Water Bill. [5...

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