Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 9 NOVEMBER 1950

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

ll70 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

THURSDAY, 9 NOVEMBER, 1950.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon . .J. H. Mann, Bris­bane) took the chair at 11 a.m.

QUESTIONS.

CANE ASSIGNJ\IENTS, Isrs MILL.

Mr. PIZZEY (Isis) asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock-

" In view of the fact that (a) at least six individual growers in the Isis mill area with rune assignments of less than 44/33 acres have recently had increases to 50/38 acres, (b) at least two individual farmers in such area with assignments greater than 44/33 acres have had their assignments increased to 52/39 acres, and (c) at least

eight soldier settlers on balloted lands in the same area with assignments of 44/33 acres were refused any increase-

" 1. Will he investigate the fact that the land held by the eight soldier settlers in question is forest red soil, whereas most of the eight civilian growers who received increased assignments have rich volcanic red soil~

'' 2. If he is then satisfied that the capacity of the soldier settlers in question to grow cane is less than that of the civilian growers who received increased assignments will he kindly give an oppor­tunity to the soldier settlers to have their applications reconsidered~''

Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands) replied-

'' 1 and 2. The hon. member should be awan' that the granting of cane assign­ments is within the jurisdiction of the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board, and that it is not my function nor is it within 1my power to give directions to a judicial tribunal as to the manner in which that tribunal should exercise the judicial dis­cretion conferred upon it by Parliament.''

STATE HOUSE SOLD TO MR. PEEL.

Mr. JUORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) asked the Secretary for Public Works, Housing, and Local Government-

'' 1. On what date did the Housing Com­mission finally decide upon the :figure of £1680 18s. 2d. as the cost of the dwelling No. Brisbane 1244, plus the extras as enumerated in my question of 7 November, and which is being sold to Mr. Peel~

"2. Was this date subsequent to the completion of repairs to the plaster walls, &c., of the house~"

Hon. P. J. R. HILTON (Carnarvon) replied-

'' 1. 21 August, 1950. "2. Yes. But the cost of these repairs

was not included in the sale price.''

SUPPLIES OF CEMENT.

Mr. WATSON (Mulgrave) asked the Premier-

'' In view of the serious shortage of cement in North Queensland, which has brought about a complete stoppage of urgent local-authority works, including essential health works, will he take imme­diate steps to secure supplies, either from local sources or from overseas?''

Hon. E. 1\I. HANLON (Ithaca) replied-,' The Government is fully aware of the

acute shortage of cement in North Queens­land and has asked the Queensland Cement and I,ime Co. to do everything possible to transport substantial quantities of cement to North Queensland. From 2 October until to date 120 tons have been railed to Cairns and 299 tons forwarded by steamer. Shortage of transport is the major difficulty in supplies of cement

Questions. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1171

from Brisbane to North Queensland. One hundred tons of overseas cement on account of Local Authorities, including the Cairns Ci~y Council, is expected to be shi,pped thrs month from London.

RENTING OF V AOANT SEASIDE HOUSES.

Mr. KERR (Sherwood) asked the Secre­tary for Labour and Industry-

'' Will he consider having a survey made of seaside houses on the South Coast which are not available for renting purposes for various reasons, and which remain unoc­cupied for the greater part of the year to the detriment of many people who desire to spend their holidays there?''

Hon. A. JONES (Charters Towers) replied-

" No. I do not consider the suggestion practicable, and consequently I do not see that any good purpose would be served by such a survey.''

LABOUR DAY PROCESSION.

:ilir. DEWAR (Chermside) asked the Premier-

'' Has he any information regarding the date fixed for the holding of the Labour Day Procession in 1951 W If so, will he inform the House of such date W'' Hon. E. :i}l. HANLON (Ithaca) replied-

'' As announced in the Press on 31 October last, Labour Day in 1951 will be observed on 30 April next. This is to avoid having two public holidays in one week, as 9 May, 1951, will be observed as a public holiday throughout Australia to commemorate the Jubilee of the Common­wealth of Austmlia. If the Opposition desir.;s to march as a body in the proces­sim: which will be held on 30 April appli­catwn should be made to the Australian Labour Day Celebration Committee. I would warn hon. members opposite, how­ever, that the committee will not permit the carrying of anti-Australian banners or Communist slogans. ''

HYBRID MAIZE SEED.

Mr. PLUNKETT (Darlington), for lUr. MADSEN (Warwick), asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock-

'' In view of the greatly increased demand for hybrid maize seed and the difficulty of securing sufficient Queensland­grown seed to meet maize growers' require­ments, would he consider giving Queens­land seed merchants permission to trade in New South Wales-grown seed which has produced results comparable with the Queen~land seed pending the proposed establishment of a certification scheme in that State W"

Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands) replied-

'' ~resent an~icipations are for a very consrderably mcreased production of Qu~ensland hyl;rid maize seed. Hybrid marze seed certified in Queensland totalled

295 bushels in 1947-48, 1,200 bushels in 1948-49, and 2,769 bushels in 1949-50. In 1950-51 it is anticipated that 6,250 bushels will be produced. The control thereon has been operated wholly for the protection of Queensland hybrid llllaize seed producers and users. It is not proposed, therefore, to depart from the present control of the sale of hybrid maize seed.''

PAPERS.

The following papers were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed-

Report upon the operations of the Sub­Departments of Native Affairs, "Even­tide'' ( Sandgate), ''Eventide'' (Char­ters Towers), "Eventide" (Rockhampton ton), Institution for Inebriates (Mar­bnrg), Queensland Industrial Institu­tion for the Blind (South Brisbane), and Queensland Government Tourist Bureau.

Report of the Department of Public Works for the year 1949-1950.

The following paper was laid on the table-

Rules of l'ourt under ''The Industrial Con­ciliation and Arbitration Act of 1932 '' (26 October).

DELEGATION TREASURER GENERAL.

OF AND

AUTHORITY: ATTORNEY-

Hon. E. lli. HANLON (Ithaca-Premier) (11.9 a.m.): I lay upon the table of the House-

A ''Government Gazette'' notifying the delegation of the authority of the Treasurer to the Honourable Thomas Andrew Foley, Secretary for Public Lands and Irrigation on and from 10 November, 1950, during the temporary absence of the Honourable Vincent Clair Gair.

A ''Government Gazette'' notifying the delegation of the authority of the Attomey-General to the Honourable William Power, SecTetary faT Mines and Immigration, on and from 6 November, 1950, dming the tempoTary absence of the Honourable James Larcombe.

SUPPLY.

RESUMPTION OF COl\LMITTEE-ESTIMATES­

SEOOND AND THIRD ALLOTTED DAYS.

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Farrell, Maryborough, in the chair.)

Es•riMATES·IN-CHIEF, 1950-51. DEPARTMENT OF RAILWAYS.

GENERAL ESTABLISHMENT.

Debate resumed from 7 November (see p. 1157) on Mr. Duggan 's motion-

'' That £537,800 be granted for 'Department of Railways-General Establishment'.''

:ilir. SPARKES (Aubigny) (11.11 a.m.): The Minister for Transport endeavoured to forecast what I was going to say. I was

1172 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

surprised at the Minister, because on look­ing through "Hansard" I found that what he said was exactly what he said a year ago and three years ago. Unfortunately we are still waiting for the improvements in his railways that he forecast three years ago. That is the unfortunate part of the business. I realise that he has a very difficult port­folio, nevertheless you must keep your temper no matter in what walk of life you may be if you are to succeed. If you lose your temper and beat yourself up, the game is over.

lUr. Wood: You are not suggesting that he lost his temper~

Mr. 1SPARKES: I have not said any­thing. By way of interjection I did say, ''I have heard that before.'' The Minister jumped up and said, ''Irresponsible,'' and I find that three years ago he said, "Irres­ponsible" and "irrepressible." Yet he pro­ceeds to waste time in replying to the irres­ponsible. One does not waste time with irresponsibles. On looking through the pages of "Hansard" I find that he spent the best part of an hour or more referring in every second or third word to the hon. member for Aubigny as being irresponsible.

Mr. Ingram: You deserved it.

Mr. SP ARKES: Then why waste time about it~ I would not waste two minutes on the hon. member.

I said that the railways were the worst railways in the world, so far as I knew, and unforunately there has been no great improvement in them during the last four years; as a matter of fact, the railways have deteriorated and they are carrying less today than they were-they are unable to carry more. Only recently we had the awful spec­tacle of the whole of the wheat crop-and it is only a handful that Queensland grows compared with the other States-being brought down by road. Anyone who travels over the road from the wheat districts knows that it has suffered quite a lot from having that wheat carried over it, all because the railways fell down on the job and could not give the service that they are there to provide.

"ilir. Devries: That road is still a speed­way.

:ilir. SP ARKES: What an interjection! 11Ir. Devries: I l1ave travelled over that

road a good deal--

:ilir. SP ARKES: The hon. gentleman says that it is still a speed way !

1\Ir. Devries: Of course it is.

1\Ir. SPARKES: If the hon. gentleman has travelled over it recently he must know that there are holes in every mile of it and that men are repairing it everywhere.

Mr. Devries: That road is a paradise compared with other roads in the country.

1\Ir. SP ARKES: First of all the hon. gentleman says it is a speedway, and then when I say there are holes in it everywhere and that he is risking his neck if he speeds on it, he says it is a paradise compared with

other roads. I agree with the hon. gentle­man that it is a paradise compared with the roads in Western Queensland, where in reality no roads at all exist. To call them roads is an insult to the word.

]Ur. Ewan: They have never been built there.

1\Ir. SP ARKES: As my friend from Roma says, they have never been built there; they do not exist there, and the hon. gentle­man knows it.

Mr. Devries: I know they do.

Mr. SPARKES: You know they do? You know they do not.

The CHAIR:iliAN: Order! When hon. members are addressing another hon. member, I remind them that they should not address him as ''you.'' The correct form is, ''The hon. member.'' I ask hon. members to observe that rule.

Mr. SP ARKES: The hon. member for Gregory knows only too well the state of the roads in ·western Queensland. If he is happy about them, all I can say is that he has lost all touch with Western Queensland and the people there.

Hon. members get up one after another in this Chamber and talk about the wonder­ful service that the railways are giving. How long are we to go on pulling our own legs~· What is the good of that sort of stuff~ If you are running a property you do not tell your men what a wonderful property it is and that everything in the garden is lovely! If anything is wrong, you take steps to rectify it as far as possib_le. It is absolute rot for hon. members to nse in this Chamber time after time and say, ''What a wonderful service the railways are giving the State! " I will later quote instan­ces to show just how wonderful a service we are getting from the railways! We have filthy, dirty railways, do not make any mistake about that. It is an insult to ask a woman to travel in some of the railway carriages provided by the Queensland railways.

1Ur. Devries: They have served you well.

Mr. 1SPARKES: We have had that sort of stuff ever since the war, as well as talk about what the war did to the railways, and I suppose we shall go on till the next war without any improvement.

The Minister has my sympathy-his is a very difficult portfolio-but when hon. mem­bers on the other side jump up and say that we have wonderful railways, they are only fooling themselves. What is the good of fooling ourselves~ That will not get us anywhere at all.

Let me give hon. members a few instances. The hon. gentleman says I never make sug­gestions. Well, then, instead- of worrying so much about the electrification of Brisbane's railways-and I am speaking now entirely for myself-let the Minister get out into the cou.ntry and give some service out there. Let him shift stock quickly so that people

Supply. (9 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1173

will not have to wait for months when they want store-stock trains. JVIost of the people in Brisbane are served with bitumen roads; even the working man here can travel by bus if he has not a motor-car. But what about the people in the far-distant areas~ That is where we should start developing the State. The Minister is starting at the wrong end. That is like the man that I mentioned before who bought a piece of land and started to build a mansion on it. That is not the way to develop a pastoral property, nor is it the way to develop the State.

The Minister will say that I am always ~ondemning the railways. I realise what they have done, and I l'now what they have to do, and what they should be doing for the State, but because I rise in my place in this Chamber to deal with those aspects of railway administration, the Minister becomes abusive and personal. Knowing that these Estimates were coming up for consideTation, I phoned Mr. Hansen, the proprietor of the Malling cheese factory on the Darling Do·wns about a certain matter. Cheese is a perish­able commodity, it must be moved fairly quickly, and if left in a hot muggy state it quickly deteriorates. I propose to read this letter that I got from Mr. Hansen-

"Mr. J. Sparkes, M.L.A. ''Dear Sir,

''Referring to our conversation of yester­day I have consulted the other factories concerned in the cheese carting and I now give you what information I can. For the last three or four years cheese factories in this district have at times applied individually for permits to cart their cheese by road to Brisbane, but have always been refused.

''As the matter is of great importance to us the five factories decided to make joint application and also show how it could be done, as up to that time nobody had been prepared to cart cheese only from this district; it is out of the way for the big carrying company and with the roads too bad only general carrying would suit the carrying company.

"We therefore applied for a license to cart cheese from the five factories-that is Moola, Mailing, Madagan, Quinalow, and Kulpi factories-to Brisbane, with back­loading such as salt, cases, etc., from Bris­bane to the factories.

"We suggested a smaller road tax com­pared with the general carrier's license. We arranged with Mr. Kevin Harper to apply for the license as he had experience in carrying, having been with the Western Transport Co. and other carrying and is in a position to supply the necessary trucks to do the work right.

"Kevin Harper also stated if it were insisted on by the Transport Commission he would apply for a general carrier's license and comply with the road tax and conditions of such a license. As you know all such transport have been refused by the Government and make the position of

·cheese factories in this district impossible as compared with Toowoom,ba and other factories that have road and rail service right to the factory.

''At present Mailing and Quinalow factories rail cheese at Jondaryan, Moola at Kaimkillenbun and Madagan at Peranga, Kulpi at Kulpi.

' 'J ondaryan being on the main line is the best service and the best we can get from that service is the cheese leaves the factory about 10 a.m. to be loaded in time for the train at J ondaryan in the after­noon. At the best it will get to Murarrie in time to be unloaded the next day, that is it is on the way two days and one night and gets one extra handlin,g as compared to road transport but sometimes the cheese is on the train much longer,. at times three days.''

The CHAIRlUAN: Order! I gave the hon. member for Aubigny the opportunity of reading the letter he quoted but I want to give a ruling now so that there will be no misunderstanding during this debate. I have discussed the matter with the Minister for Transport and he has informed me that he proposes to bring on the Estimates of the Commissioner for Transport after these Esti­mates, therefore I do not propose to allow any discussion on the activities of the Com­missioner for Transport on this Vote.

Mr. SP ARKES: I presume, Mr. Farrell, you will allow me to quote how long it took to transport the cheese on the railways. I checked up the time, as it is usual for me to be as exact as possible. I never try to exaggerate. (Government laughter.) I took the opportunity to phone Mr. Hansen to ask him whether he had sent any cheese to Bris­bane this week, seeing that he had said that previous consignments had taken so long. He said, "Yes, we sent some graded cheese on Monday, the 6th instant,'' that was last Mo11day, ''and it was put on the train at J ondaryan about 2 p.m. '' I said, ''When did that consignment get down~'' He replied, ''I do not know.'' I then telephoned to the Murarrie factory to find out exactly when this cheese a.rrived. I was informed that it arrived at Murarrie at 11.45 a.m. on Wednes­day, or roughly 46 hours after it was loaded on the train. The distance from Jondaryan to Murarrie is about 130 miles, it might be a mile or so less, therefore the cheese travelled at the rate of three miles an hour to its destination. Remember, this is a perishable product. ·why, one could walk the distarrce in that time.

Mr. Walsh: Don't be ridiculous.

~Ir. SP ARKES: The hon. member says, ''Don't be ridiculous.''

Mr. Walsh: Or childish.

Mr. SPARKES: The hon. member says "Don't be ridiculous or childish," but the facts I have given are sound and sane. The cheese was put on to the train at Jondaryan at 2 o'clock on Monday and did not arrive at Murarrie until 11.45 a.m. on :Wednesday,

1174 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

which is more than 46 hours. The average rate of travel is not three miles an hour. Where is the ridiculousness~ It is ridiculous.

JUr. JESSON: Mr. Farrell, I rise to a point of order. I would ask the hon. member for Aubigny to modulate his voice because I am getting a headache.

IUr. SP ARKES: If my voice is giving; the hon. member for Hinchinbrook a head­ache then it is doing a wonderful job for this Chamber.

It is ridiculous to think that in a country like this a commodity like cheese can be transported on the railways at the terrific rate of less than three miles an hour. Is there any wonder that the cheese deterior­ates on the way~ Murarrie handles the cheese for this gentleman, so I took the opportunity of phoning the company operating there. I asked what was the effect of this on the cheese. He said, "'vV ell, Mr. Sparkes, in hot weather it is detrimental,'' and then of his own volition he said, ''Just recently we had a consignment from there by road and it came down, I suppose, in six or seven hours, in the cool of the day. It arrived in wonder­ful condition.'' Yet we find the Minister endeavouring to bolster up his railways by enforcing the carting of this commodity on the railways.

~Ir. Devries: What happened that it took so long to get down here~

lUr. SP ARKES: I was not walking along with the train, so I am unable to tell the hon. gentleman. If the hon. gentleman makes inquiries of the swagmen along the road he might be able to find out ..

Tile CHAIRllfA:Y: Order!

~Ir. SPARKES: It is not my job to find out what happened.

lUr. Walsh: What was the date of the train~

li'Ir. SPARKES: I have already said that the train left there-that the cheese was loaded at 2 p.m. las.t Monday, 6 November, 1950.

li'Ir. Walsh: There were no trains running last Monday.

IUr • .SPARKES: Yes, there were.

Tile CHAIRJUAN: Order! I ask hon. members to allow the hon. member to continue whhout interruption.

llir. SP ARKES: That was good of you to sa\'e him; but the trains were running last Monday. What would you expect from an ex-Minister for Transport who does not know whether the trains were running or not and who continues to say they were not running last Monday~

:i1Ir. Devries: Have you made any inquiries as to why~

lUr. SPARKES: I made all the inquiries. One of the ex-Ministers has got the Minis­ter into enough trouble without your putting him in.

Mr. Devries: I want to know the story.

llfr. SPARKES: The story has been plainly told. The cheese was loaded at 2 p.m. and it did not arrive here till 11.45 a.m.

lUr. Devries: Why?

The CHAIRMAN: Order! I should like to inform the hon. member that he only has five minutes left for his speech.

Mr. SP ARKES: The reason I checked up on the last train was that this man com­plained that it was a common occurrence. I thought that was no good. I wanted to know the true position and I check~d up o~ the last consignment. Surely that 1s suffici­ent for the hon. gentleman who, as a rule, is rather intelligent.

l\'Ir. Devries: I cannot follow your argument.

lUr. SPARKES: Follow me this way: that man writes and tells me that when he sends his cheese by train it invariably does not get here for 'two and sometimes three days. I just could not believe it and then I checked up on the last consignment. Is not that a reasonable and fair thing to do­to check up on the last consignment that left the factory~ In ad,dition to that I checked up with Murrarie to find out exactly the time it arrived. Surely that is only a reasonable way of doing things W I have a whole lot more but it will keep until the Vote for road trans­port comes on.

I should like to see some improvement in the railways straight away. We have gone on from year to year with these continued promises of the big things we were gomg to have. I do not hold any brief for the hon. member for Bundaberg-none at all. Do not think that what I am going to say is meant as a pat on the back for him; I would much rather put the boot in!

The CHAIRlUAN: Order!

liir. Walsh: That is because I put the boot into you.

li'Ir. SP ARKES: That is all right. There was an improvement when the hon. member was there I give him the benefit of that­but there' has been little or no improvement since. I say the railways are deteriorating rather than improving, as we should expect them to do.

liir. Devries interjected.

JUr. SP ARKES: The hon. gentleman no doubt would much prefer to stand up a~d tell the story of how wonderful the rml­ways are but that does not get us anywhere and does not help the Minister for Transport. The railways have got a big improvement job to do and I hope they will get on and do it.

(Time expired.)

li'Ir. WATSON (Mulgrave) (11.36 a.m.): The Minister for Transport said that he would appreciate constructive criticism ani! as a Northern member I shall be able to offer him some criticism of the railways in

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1175

the North that may be of value to him, if not now then in the future. The hon. gentle­man painted a rosy picture for the Com­mittee of the new engines, housing, trans­port facilities and so on, but overlooked one point, the further extension of the railways. As a new member for the North, I had looked forward to hearing from him something on that subject. I say quite seriously that unless railway extensions are made in the North we cannot expect to hold our population. There is an old saying that to keep the people, there must be railways. That is quite true. I hope that the hon. gentleman is not overlooking this point. I desire to draw particular attention to the railway line between Tully and Cairns in the North.

lUr. Jesson: The best railway service in Australia.

JUr. W ATSON: I am not criticising the railway seTVice but the railway line itself. The Minister has asked for constructive criticism and as it is his intention in the near future to use heavier engines on that line the department at present is altering the alignments of curves and reconstructing cer­tain bridges. In these modern times I have a hatred of railway bridges constructed of wood. I know steel and cement are scar~e but the Government should face up to the fact that in the construction of new bridges on a raihYay such as the Northern line they should not go back to the days of old wooden bridges. My experience is that the timber is not good today. The life of a sleeper today is 15 Jears.

}Ir. Aikens: It depends entirely on the type of country.

JUr. W ATSON: Although Maryborough timber is being used to some extent, much timber that is going into these bridges will not give the life expected of them. Northern climatic conditions are such that steel and concrete have a long life whereas the life of timber is approximately only 15 years and at the end of that time renewal work will have to be clone.

In a question I directed to the Premier yesterday I asked why the local authorities were being compelled to close clown works and the answer given 'this morning showed that it was because of lack of transport. I know that a good deal of cement is available in Brisbane at the present time but again we have the story of the neglected North. Because of the shortage of transport facil­ities, the difficulty of getting cement to the North is forcing Northern local authorities to close clown very important loan projects. That is very serious at this time of the year. We can only clo loan jobs on certain health projects at this time of the year, from January to J uno, weather does not permit us to clo them, and we are losing a period of six months-a periGd that is most valuable to Northern local authorities. I should like the Minister to look into the matter because unless local authorities can get cement through by the railways they will suffer by losing work on their loan projects for the year.

The Minister painted a rosy picture of the railways and I suggest to him that in paint­ing these pictures in the future he might give some colour to the smaller stations. The main stations are reasonably bright and good, and we know that Cairns will have a new station to complete the link, but Innisfail and some of the smaller stations are not as they might be, and if one gets out of a car­riage during the wet season one is likely to get damaged in the process. I know that the matter has been brought before the Minister.

Business people in the North are com­plaining that their perishable goods are being clmnagecl in tnmsit. The Minister kno\YS as well as I clo that although business men are prepared to pay insurance on their goods the method is so tied up that they clo not know until they get the goods into their shops that they are damaged by wate~. This is another matter that requires attention. H unclreds of thousands of pounds' worth of perishable goods are being damaged in transit through leaky tarpaulins or bad transport facilities. This matter is causing consiclera ble concern in the North an cl should be looked into.

JUr. DONALD (Bremer) (11.42 a.m.): The hon. member for Aubigny was a very good example of the exception that proves the rule. It was pleasing to me, and I am sure also pleasing to the Minister, to hear hon. members on both sides of the Chamber prefacing their remarks with glowing eulogies to the Minister for his ability in handling a very difficult department. The hon. member for Aubigny recognises that the railways are doing a good job; anrl he recog­nises that it is a difficult department to administer. The Railway Department has always been regarded as one of the_ most clifficul t clepartmen ts to manage, and 1s one calculated to bring the Minister in charge into public clisfayour, make him unpopular and give him many headaches.

There has been thrust upon the Minister in recent times the responsibility of aclmin­isterinO' all forms of transport within the St;-lte.

0 The eYer-increasing volun1e of trans­

port has brought many extra difficulties and problems to the Minister and ~t ~s very satisfying to !mow that the pubh<', m com­mon ~~·ith members of this Committee, have ao-roer1 that the Minister has renderell a good s;n-icc to the community aml made an extrrrorrlinarily good job of a difficult task and has given general satisfrrction.

I should like to refer briefly to the hon. member's remaTk that the railways were dirty, rotten, :filthy and stinking--

~Ir. SPARKES: I rise to a point of OTder. I rlid not srry that. I will take as much as anvbodv can give me, but I never mentioned the 'word ''stinking'' in my speech. I clirl 110t; I ask that it be with­drawn.

Jnr. DONALD: I withdraw the word. If he did not use the word, I thought he did. Anyhow, he said they were dirty and :filthy,

1176 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

and if anything can be dirty, rotten and filthy and not stink, I don't know how it is possible.

'l'he hon. member said also that the rail­V\ ays had given no service to the people­no service to the people of the community he represents. On 27 September the hon. member for Roma asked the Premier whether he would give particulars of aid he said had been given to the pastoral industries, and the hon. gentleman, in his reply, said:-

"Yes. Reduced freight rates .on wool, starving stock, and fodder rebates, store rebates1 rebates on breeding bulls, and restockmg rebates, granted by the Rail­way Department to the grazing industry, from 1 .July, ~932, to 30 .June, 1950, amounted to £2,D00,888.''

':V e~l, Mr. _Chairman, if a gift of over £2,D00,000 IS :10t a practical form of help to a wealthy mdustry, I clo not know what ~1elp the hon: member and the people in his mclustry desne! At all times the railways have_ be~n willing to help not only the grazmg mdustry, but every other industry in_ ~his !'ltate. They have helped the coal­mmmg mdustry, and are still helping it.

It is not generally realised that the Blair A thol and Calli de coalfields would not be operatir;g today but for the generous treat­ment given to them by the railways.

A Government Member: And Mt. Isa Mmes. ·

IIIr. DONALD: And Mt. Isa Mines. Many industries in the metropolitan area could not operate if it were not for the ge:rerosity of the Railway Department. I !hmk the people of Queensland should be mfo_rmed that the R.ailway Department is buymg coal at an uneconomic price, in an effort not only to keep collieries working but. also to enable industries in the metro­pohtan area t~ get cheaper coal so that they, m turn, can give the people chea,per services. The ~urden _of the unecono•mic price paid for coal IS earned by the Railway Department.

~Ir. Ewan: Do you not think that the pnce charged for wool helps them

~Ir. DON ALD: If the Railway Depart­ment could sell its service on the same market and to the same people and receive the same value for its labour, 'as the wool­growers, we should not be budgeting for a deficit.

. It is surprising to hear this carping criti­CISnl of our railways, particularly by home critics, that is, Queenslanders themselves. For some peculiar reason it seems to be a por;ular pastime to berate the Queensland Railways, and usually those who criticise them most severely have never been outsfde this State. It reminds me of the line ''What should they know of England, who onl~ Engl~nd know~'' I am not laying any claims to bemg a globetrotter, but I have travelled intrastate and interstate perhaps more than the average Queenslander. I admit that my travelling has not taken me any farther than the three eastern States of the Common­wealth-! have never had the privilege of

visiting South Australia or Western Aus­tralia-but I can say without fear of contra­diction that, generally speaking, the railway service in Queensland compares more than favourably with that of any other State in the Commonwealth. For instance, people who have tr:wellcd on the Sunshine Express to Cairns must admit that there is more comfort and ~onvenienee on that train than either of the trains I"Ulming from here to Sydney, whether via Kyogle or V\Tallangarra. The Sunshine Express offers more comfortable travelling than the train to Sydney via Kyogle, in spite of the wider gauge on that line. Anyone who tells the truth must admit that.

Again, the Queensland Railway Depart­ment caters for the needs of people who can­not afford to travel fii"st-class. It is impos­sible to get a second-class sleeping berth on the Kyogle train, but the Queensland Rail­way Department gives service by providing sleeping berths for people who cannot afford to travel first-class. That, in itself, should be sufficient to refute all thiB carping criti­cisnl and these attempts to belittle the rail­way service in our own State.

Where on earth would Queensland be if it had not been for the railways~ People who criticise our railways forget that Queensland has a far greater mileage of railway line than any other State in the Commonwealth and that, with the exception of ·western Australia, it is the largest State. How much less difficult it would be for the Minister and his department to serve Queensland if we had here as many people to the square mile as has Victoria! How much easier it must be to run a railway service in Victoria than a railway service in Queensland, where tTains sometimes have to travel hundreds of miles to serve perhaps two or three people! That ~onc1ition does not exist in Victoria nor does it exist in any of the other States except "Western Australia to a greater extent than it does in C~ueensland. So that it can be seen that not only one section of the commu­nity but all sections in Queensland h_avfl a better railway service than they have m the other States of the Commonwealth.

I do not want to be misunderstood. I am not for one moment trying to convey the impression that our steam trains in th6 suburban areas are better than the electric trains of either Sydney or Melbourne. I will admit that the service given by the electric trains in Sydney and Melbourne is much better and much speedier than the service provided by the steam trains in the suburbs of Brisbane, but it must be admitted that our steam trains are giving a good service. \V e have passed the planning stage in pro­vidin•r for the electrification of our suburban rail" ~ys and we look forward to the installa­tion of the system in the near future. _Here again population plays an important part. I do not think that there is any better train in New South Wales, unless it is the one that runs from Sydney to Broken Hill-I forget its name at the moment-and the Spirit of

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1177

Progress in Victoria than the Sunshine Express in Queensland. I admit that the Spirit of Progress in Victoria is a better train than any we have in Queensland.

Mr. Aikens: But it travels a shorter distance.

lllr. DONALD: Exactly. Outside the Spirit of Progress and, of course, the electri­fied system in the Melbourne submbs the rail­way service of VictOTia is not to be com­p:ued with that in Queensland. T'he only place outside Australia that I have visited is the North Island of New Zealand and the train service there is not as good as the train service in Queensland. I did not go to the South Island of New Zealand but I have no reason to think • that the railway service provided in the South Island would be better than the service in the North Is land, if as good. Therefore, we can conclude that the railway service in Queensland is a.s good as if not better than the railway s.ervice in the sister dominion of New Zealand.

Speaking of an air-conditioned train such as the Spirit of Progress, I am reminded of the visit I made with the Minister for Trans­port-I am not sure whether it was the present hon. membPr for Bundaberg or in the e:rrly period of the present Minister for Transport-but in any case I was given the opportunity of seeing an air-conditioned train in the course of construction that was to run in Queensland some time in the future. That was not a privilege offered to me alone but it was extended to everyone who cared to t:tke advantage of it by attending the Industrial Fair at the Brisbane Exhibition to observe the progress that had been made in train construction. The new carriage was displayed at the Brisbane Exhi­bition grounds and later on again in Rock­hampton. :vry reaction to it ~was that I did not know how the Railway Department was going to get enough revenue to justify the building of a train like this ber:tnse it was as good and just as comfortable as the Spirit o~ Progress. Of course, I saw only a sec­tion of the proposed new train, the carriage referred to, and it was very comfortable,

Speaking of th~ Ipswich railway wOTkshops, we must recogmse that there is room for expansion. That is already recognised by the department. l\fany shops are overcrowded and the amenities should be better than tlwy are. But on the other hand, it must be adr'nitted that in no factory in the Commonwealth are better conditions to be had than in the tool and gauge shop, in which the department has something to be proud of. It miaht be said ''If you can give one section of the work: shops those conditions, why can they not be extended to every section W '' It must be borne in mind .that the tool and gauge shop is a cor~rparatl.vely new section of the workshops, bmlt durmg the last war and the employees there work under modern air-conditioning. Plans have been made for the erection of new workshops at Redbank. \Vhen these work­shops are completed the employees will have the best possible conditions to enable them

to do their work in comfort and give to the people of the State the services they are entitled to.

This does show conclusively that the depart­ment is doing its very best in difficult circum­stances in not only giving the public the services they are entitled to but in seeing that its employees are encouraged to give of their best by the installation of the most modern conditions they are entitled to for their comfort. The decision of the depart­ment to build new workshops at Redbank cer­tainly meets with my approval and the approval of most people in Redbank. I say ''most people'' advisedly because 13 families living in their homes there were incon­venienced by the decision of the department to !mild workshops and had to move to other sites.

:i}Ir. lUacdonald: They were compen­&ated.

:i}Ir. DONALD: That is so, and com­pensated to their satisfaction. To shbw the C(•nsideration the department endeavours to give the people, and the services it is giving to the people, I remind hon. members that a special Bill was put through this Chamber bv the Premier so that the homes of the people affected could be moved to other sites and they could still remain in Redbank. Three or four homes of the people affected were so removed, but some of them have moved out of Redbank. An area of land was resumed by the Gowmment for this purpose. The Ipswich people generally are appreciative of the fact that the Ipswich workshops are not tc be erected beyond the confines of the city of Ips1vich. The workshops are a big source of revenue to the people of Ipswich and they \vere fearful, although they realised that sooner or later they would have to be shifted, that they might be taken away from Ipswich altogether. They are very grateful to the department for allowing the workshops to remain in the city of Ips>dch. ,

I should not like to leave the subject of the Ips,vich >rOTkshops without making a passing reference to two or possibly three institu­tions that have been in existence at the work­shops for some years. I first mention the rostrum, which was instituted by a dear old friend of mine who is still an employee of the workshops, and a very clever man. He has given much of his leisure_ to the working­class movement. A lecture is delivered from the rostrum on every working-day of the year. All shades of thought ancl all the arts are catered for. 'l'he subjects are varied and interesting. It has been my privilege to speak from the rostrum on several occasions, as it has been the privilege of other members of Parliament. \Ve have a very intelligent audi­ence and one cannot speak too highly of those >vho interest themselves in the matter, and give their services in a practical and volun­tary way. The department, to its credit, has eo-operated with the employees in this respect and has helped in every possible way. An amplifying system has been installed and in addition to lectures anc1 addresses, musical items are presented. People interested in various kinds of art are allowed to express themselves there.

1178 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The Workshops Educational Association, not to be confused with the Workers' Educa­tional Association, also perfo1·ms a useful function. Then there is the dining-room com­mittee that provides three-course meals every day for anyone who wants to have them, and a canteen service. This is conducted on a l"oltmtary basis by a committee elected by the diners, and I feel that that committee should receive some credit for the service it is rendering.

I was very much surprised to hear an ex-railway employee rise in this . Chamber and say that the railways of Queensland had been sadly neglected. One of his ideas for remedying this neglect was to paint all the stations throughout Queensland. If the railways have been neglected or if there is anything wrong, then we must deal with :first things first. There are much more important things to be done on the railways -and the department realises it-than the painting of waiting sheds and railway stations throughout the State.

The same hon. member went on to say that no encouragement was given to young men who enter the railway service. I have some practical and personal experience in this respect and I know that young men are trained in the railways to a stage at which they can get their diploma in mechanical and electrical engineering, and other diplomas and degrees, and that some of them then go out to serve private enterprise. Nor has it stopped there. Our brilliant young men in the rail­ways have been taken by the other railway systems throughou,t the Common­wealth. That in itself is a tribute to the encouragement given to the young people in the railways.

I am not surprised that the hon. member for Cooroora should object to the 40-hour week, because when the Bill that put it into effect was being discussed he contended that the railway men did not want it-another astonishing statement for a railway man to make. I know the railway men pretty well and I am prepared to say that an~- loss in production resulting from the introduction of the 40-hour week-if there has been any­would have been much greater had that very necessary and justifiable reform not been granted to railwav men in common with the other employees in this State.

The hon. member also criticised the lack of a superannuation scheme for railway employees. Again I have to confess that that is not the fault of the department but the fault of the employees themselves because they cannot agree on the type of superannua­tion scheme they will have. I suggest in all seriousness that if the scheme was made as simple as that of the coal-miners it would be eagerly accepted by the employees; and I cannot for the life of me see why there should be any greater difficulty in having a super­annuation scheme for railway employees than for members of the Australian mining industry.

I was surprised, although I should not have been-because I should have known that the

hon. member, if he was a unionist, was a con­script unionist and therefore would have no idea of the working of the unions-to hear the hon. member refer to union leaders as ''union bosses.'' He thereby showed that he was totally ignorant of the functions of union leaders. ' Is there any member of this Chamber who is prepared to say he is the boss of his electors~ Union leaders are elected on a very democratic basis-probably a more democratic basis than that on which we are elected to this Parliament. Every trade-union leader is elected by a secret ballot of the members of the union and if he has not the support and confidence of the members of his union he is not elected. The union officials are not the bosses of their members, any more than we are the bosses of our electors. I have been a union official for. very many years, in both a voluntary, honorary and a paid capacity, and never have I _been a.ble .to influence the rank and file agamst then wrll. I have been cheered one day and hooted the next; but I always did what I thought was right.

I meet with approval sometimes and I certainly meet with a lot of hostility at other times. That is just an illustration that the rank and file of the miners' unions and any other unions of which I have had experience are the bosses, and not the leaders. The leaders are the seTVants of the members of the union, just as we are the servants of the people who elect us to this Parliament.

It is pure humbug to say that the railway union officials ha1·e prevented any superannu­ation scheme. At Ipswich and in the railway service generally there are too many unions­that is my personal view-but to try to overcome that handicap they have a shops and jobs committee which does not include any paid official of a union, at least no fu~l­time official. The officials working there m the craft unions look after the interests of the men and the way in which that organisa­tion has been met by the Minister, the Com­missioner and the various heads of the departme;t throughout the years is an indica­tion that the department, from the Minis~er down, is doing its best t~ keep the servrce going as smoothly as possrble.

The hon. member questions the reason for an increase in freights and fares, but he, as a champion of private enterprise, should know that under our economic system these increases are inevitable. The same hon. member, and every other hon. member on the Opposition benches, always endeavour to justify increases in prices charged by private enterprise. Why do they not ask for a decrease in interest rates~

(Time expired.)

lUr. HILEY (Coorparoo) (12.7 p.m.): While the words of the Archbishop of Canter­bury spoken yesterday are still fresh in my ears, it seems to me that the members of the Committee have not taken long to find themselves toying with some of those features of expression that are likely to get tremend­ous headlines, but nevertheless are of the

Supply. [9 NovEillRER.] S1<pply. 1179

type the Archbishop quite shrewdly pro­phesied would almost invariably be com­pletely wrong. I venture to suggest that just as the Minister himself would be the last to suggest that there is no direction in which the railways of the State are capable of improvement and open to criticism, so few hon. members of this Committee would agree that they are wholly beyond redemption.

1\'Ir. Walsh: Who said they were?

1\'Ir. HILEY: It has been said. The point I wish to touch on this morning is the matter the Minister very rightly dealt with at some length in his opening remarks, and that is the progress that is being made in the very important matter of the electrification of the railways of this city. He told us­and I was very interested to have the infor­mation-of the progress that has been made towards agreements for the supply of power and in carrying out this important work. The matter I would raise with the Minister, however, touches less on the mechanics of the electrification than on the fundamental principles of the subject.

I understand, on the outline that has been so far available to hen. members, that fundamentally the proposal is the electrifica­tion of the existing suburban railway system, something that was built and established 75 years ago and the replacement of steam locomotives by electric traction. The dual aspect on which I invite the consideration of the Minister is, first of all, whether electri­fication of the existing suburban system is an adequate approach to the problem, and secondly and particularly, whether, in con­junction with it, there will be some tackling of the problem of a cross-river connection.

I for one look upon the link through Tenny­son ns merely a device to overcome the prob­lem of cross-river connection and it is not sufficient in itself to make a southern suburban system and a northern suburban system a single suburban railway undertak­ing. I ask the Committee to observe that although Brisbane is still in world terms only n middle-sized city, we are experiencing in the density of traffic a position that causes us to ask ourselves what the position "·ill be in 20 years' time. We are already faring serious bottle-necks on our tramway routes at peak hours: there is congestion, with trams running nose to tail; and all this causes me to wonder ltow much more traffic can be carried by the tramway system. VVe have evidence of sur­fHee congestion, \Ye have evidence of parking diHicnlties, and we have the spectacle of our bottle-necks at some of the main exits from the city, anc1 it impresses me that this is the time above any other to ask ourselves whether in elcctrifiying our suburban raihvay system it is possible to make a matel'ial contribution tom1rds lessening the impact of some of the i'I'oblems I see looming up in the next genera­tion. If we ask onr principal rail way officers to mhise us on this important project of electrification of the suburban system, should we ll ot ask them not only to n d dress their

.l950-2R

minds to the question of replacing the steam locomotive with eleetric traction but to con· sidcr the important problem of taking a great percLutage of our suburbnn railway system underground. I feel that unless the existing menus of transport round the city are supple­mented by an underground electrified system there will be a iirst-class bottle-neck in the next generation. I ask the Minister for 'l'ransport to favour the Committee with his obsenations on this question, because I feel tlmt if we merely content ourselves with tak­ing a system devised, routed ancl planned 75 years ago ancl altering the method of traction we clo not make all the approaches that might be possible.

JUr. Duggan: I do not think we have anything like the problem that confronted New South ·wales because we have terminals to our system and we shall not be involved in resumption costs.

1\Ir. HILEY: It is not the problem of resumption that is worrying me, but merely whether the electrificution of the present system would make an adequate contribution to the traffic requirements of the city, if ict stops at that, l'nless we build into some of our inner city area underground stations linking up ronnel the city area the whole electrification of the suburban area, we shall not make a full and adequate contribution to the traffic needs of Brisbane in 19(15 and ou>Yards.

'l'he second important matte1· is the prob­lem of cross-river transport, and I for one shall feel that no matter what the Minister might do with regard to the electrification of the southern suburban railway system, and no matter what magnificent coaches he pro­vides, nnd no matter what splendid stations he builds, and no matter what fast services he gives, it will remain a second-cla.ss contri­bution to the solution of the problem if the suburban terminus is still at Melbourne Street. vie have to recognise that on the hn sis of the broad plmming for the city of Brisbane cross-river transport must be pro­Yided. We are told that the Victoria Bridg<' is in the last few years of its really useful life; indeed, steps have had to be taken to lighten the surface of the structure, ancl the warning is plainly there that although it is still usable, on a long-term view it must be replaced if it is to serve the obvious need of that section of the city.

Looking at the other cross-river facilities, although Grey Street bridge is well located, it impresses me as never having been designed for the purpose of which I am speaking, and I should imagine that it offers negligible assistance for cross-river rail transport. And in my opinion, the Story Bridge, neither by location nor by basic planning, would make any contribution towards solving this problem. Therefore, if the question of a cross-river connection is to be approached in connection with the electrification of Brisbane's suburban railway system, the time when the replace­ment of Victoria Bridge is considered should be the time to consider both the electrification

1180 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

of the railways and cross-river transport. They should be treated as one common problem.

Mr. Walsh: There should be more than one cross-river connection.

1\'Ir. HILEY: I am inclined to agree. 1\'Ir. Walsh: And trams, as well as

trains, will have to be considered.

Mr. HILEY: Quite so. Someone might suggest ~ certain site and a multi-level bridge on the lines of the Sydney Harbour bridge that would handle both trains and trams but I have not the competence, nor am I prepared, to make any suggestions on such matters. We have obviously a centralisation of our north-side traffic facilities round about the Roma Street area, and equally obviously we have a concentration of our south-side traffic facilities in the Melbourne Street station area. It would seem to me, therefore that some_ c:oss-river facility within reason: able proxmuty to both those places is the obvious answer.

. I hop~ tha~ in a desire to get quick results m electn:ficatwn, we do not commit ourselves to the immediate spending of a good deal of capital money if within a reasonably short space of ti~e we may have to say, "All we have done IS spend money on something that will have to be discarded. We must now spend a further sum of capital money because ":e haye t_o tackle the undergrounding of our City cucmt and the linking up of cross-river transport.'' Those are matters that can be answered adequately only after a very full engineering examination of the issues involved. As the princ~pal officers of the Railway Dep_a:tment Will, through the Minister, be advismg and recommending to this Parlia­ment the particular steps that should be followed, I hope and expect with confidence that when the Minister does reply he will say something of great interest to me personally and, I am sure, to many members of this Committee.

Mr. ll'lORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) ·(12.19 p.m.): 1! have to confess quite a measure of sympathy with the comments that have been made in this Chamber this morning by the hon. member for Bremer. I think we must all realise that Queensland has a 3 ft. 6 in. gau~e, not 4 ft .. 8t ins., and although it may be hke comparmg a T-model Ford with a Rolls Royce, we must remember the difference and when we look back 75 years we realis~ th:;tt our r::;llway system has been very effective m carrymg out its job. I realise that there are many miles to cover in a State like Queensland but I would remind him that the burden of the criticism levelled at the Railway Department revolves more round the carriage of goods than passengers to which he paid no attention at all. He' did make reference to the Industries Fair that was held at the Exhibition a couple of years ago but_ I should like to say in regard to the tram he spoke of that it was more in the nature of providing a reasonable means of competition_ with the airways by providing more luxunous transport than we have at the moment than any thing else. The fares

will have to be more than the usual fares if it is to compensate for the extra cost. Much has been said about the Spirit of Progress, which is doing a very :fine job for the State of Victoria, but I do not altogether subscribe to the view that because the railway system in Queensland does not make a profit it is failing in its purpose, nor do I believe that we should refuse to face and consider the cause of huge losses in working when they occur.

There is much to be said for the Minister's comment that the railways are not only giving a service but doing other work as well, therefore we should dissect the work that is being done by the railways them­selves. On the main lines perhaps the sub­ject of profit and loss is a major factor to be taken into consideration but there are other lines in the State where the major factor is not profit and loss and where the railways are serving a developmental purpose. We should not disregard that factor because where the railways are serving a develop­mental purpose they must inevitably lose money.

A factor that must be taken into considera­tion is that there are railways that are already established or could be established whose main contribution to the State would be in the nature of a war potential. For instance, a railway line from Mt. Isa to the Northern Territory would serve a very important purpose in the event of war, although it is not likely that it would he economic. I do not think we should be justified in condemning a railway like that if it did not pay its way. Such a line would serve two very important purposes-in developing the area to a greater extent than it is being developed today and in providing an extraordinarily useful link in time of war. Do not let us run away with the idea that the railways will not be a vital factor in the event of war. I have read articles in which it was said that mechanical transport had progressed to such an extraordinary extent today that railway systems would not play a very vital part in another world war, but I regard such observations as being unadulterated nonsense. I think that the railway systems will be a really vital factor in any defence project in Queensland.

Then, of course, there io another factor that must be taken into consideration in considering the profit or loss on the railways, and that is the contribution they make in respect of drought and flood relief. Thus there are varying factors to be considered that cannot be truly assessed. I propose to build up to a point in this particular regard, but before doing so let us consider the opera­tions of the Railway Department in the past year.

We find as an actual fact that there has been a deficit of £10,106 in the income oyn the expenditure, but added to that there was an interest loss of £1,529,200. Added tn that again there is the sum of £802,900 for re,pairs and maintenance. This last-mentioned sum has been taken from the Post-war Recon­struction and Development Trust Fund, hut nevertheleos this money has had to be expended apart from the provision of new

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1181

rolling stock, which money comes from the Loan :B'und, nevertheless it has been spent on repairs and maintenance over a period of 1::: months and should be put into the profit and loss account of the department. As a result, we find that the net loss for the period has been £2,342,206. A consideration of those figures leads us to an estimate of what the profit or loss will be in thB coming ,Year. Taking these figures as a reasonable basis, we can put that loss at £2,324,220, plus the increase in the basic wage, and on the figure the Minister gave us when intro­ducing his Estimates that should amount to H,600,000 and upwards, which will give us a total gross loss for next year of a pproxi­mately £4,000,000.

However, fares and freights have lJeen increased from 1 July last and it is expected that the&e increases will bring in an addi­tional revenue of £1,250,000, which will leave us with a net loss for the current year of approximately £2,750,000. We must consider this with very grave concern, for it is a huge sum, and if this kind of loss continues the State finances will drift into a difficult position.

If the position was approache<l from a lm~ines& point of view, the person in charge wonld try to elicit from his departmental officers a figure that could justly be placed against the loss on the development side of the railways. If the Minister could give us some arbitrary figure as to that sum, T should be particularly interested. Again, I B1,ould like to haYe some arbitrary figure of the lo~s on those lines which will be used p~im~ri.ly for defenee purposes. I should like to know too thE' average contribution made by the department to drought and flood relief over a period of years. We could then arrive at a position where we could be able fairly and justly to anticipate a loss of so much money on our developmental lines and our lines that are primarily for defence purposes, an<l the cost to the department in affording flood and drought relief. If that figure was, for the sake of argument, £1,000,000, we could then make a demand on the Minister for reasons why our losses should be greater than that figure.

In short, if I was associated with the department I should want to know why there was a loss over and above the legitimate one. I believe the department should pay its way, and if it is not paying its way after deduct­ing that figure, there must be some ineffic­iency somewhere to cause greater loss than there should be.

Jllr. Smith: On whom would you blame the inefficiency~

iUr. iliORRIS: I should not presume to answer that question arbitrarily. If I was in charge of the department and I discovered that there was a loss after the legitimate one. I should feel it my duty to find out where the loss '\Yns occurring and the reason for it. I point out to the hon. member that there is one source of investigation that I believe opens itself immediately to a very full investiga­tion, and that is the question of the income and expenditure in the various divisions. I

find on consulting the figures for the South­ern Division that there has been a surplus of income over expenditure of £673,858, and in the Northem Division-incidentally the clh·i­sion where I should expect the clevelopmental costs to be much greater than anywhere else -there was a surplus of £433,358. But, strangely enough, the Central Division shows a deficiency of £529,855.

lUr. Jesson: Do you know why?

JUr. JliORRIS: That is an amazing thing. I should like to know why it is.

J\Ir. Jesson: Concessions to graziers and pastoralists.

Jllr. lUORRIS: If the hon. member will persist in interrupting-if he knows the answer to that question I should like to hear it, but I should infinitely prefer to hear it from the lips of the Minister, because it would then give an authoritative answer on which we could rely. I hope the Minister will tell us why in the Southern and North­ern Divisions there should be such a good sur­plus and in the Central Division there should be a large deficit, approaching half a million.

An Opposition JUeinber: Probably because of the Queensland-British Food Cor­poration.

JUr. JUORRIS: A comment has been made that it is probably because of the Queensland-British Food Corporation. I know one of the reasons is the loss shown on the cartuge of Blair Athol coal, but that loss is offset to a great extent by the fact that this coal is serving a very vital purpose. Hon. members have the right to know, when there is a loss, the reasons for that loss, and then they can judge the administration of this department fairly and impartially.

I remember some two or three years ago in this Chamber advocating the establishment of many more loops on the line between Rock­hampton and Blair Athol because it was my belief-and this was substantiated by com­ments from experienced railway men-that the establishment of more loops on this line would make the line infinitely more payable and reduce the costs considerably. I was particularly pleased to hear the Minister say when opening this debate that many of those loops have been installed; and if there is not enough I hope they will continue to install them. It is only by doing that that they will be able to cut out the dead time on the trains running along that line and help to reduce the great losses occurring there.

Finally, I make comment on a subject nearer home, but of the most vital import­ance to many people in the Brisbane area, the perpetuation of the danger of railway level crossings as they exist on the railway line to }'ernY Grow" There are several very dangerous !<;vel crossings in that area that shoti'ld and could have been abolished years ago. Lives have been lost at these level crossings with monotonous regularity, and I am quite certain that some method could be adopted to overcome these level crossings. I heard recently more favourable comment from the Minister than we haYe hear<l in the past about railway level crossings, which

1182 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

leads to the belief that something will be done to overcome that difficulty when we have electric trains operating in Brisbane. At least I am glad to hear that, because the menace that exists now will be increased a hundredfold when electric trains are run­ning. But if it is possible to install some such system when electric trains are run­ing, it should be possible to eliminate level erosings almost immediately. So that, as we shall have the old method of transport in that area for years, safety measures should be installed now and be the means of saving the tragic loss of life.

llir. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (12.37 p.m.): The Minister for Transport has many tine personal attributes and virtues, but I do not propose to deal with them today. When he was appointed Minister for Transport in 1947 I said I would withhold any criticism that I might have until he had been given a fair opportunity to show his paces and merits as a ministerial administrator. 'l'oo often have \Ye seen Ministers appointed to the front bench of this Parliament adopting a policy that a new broom sweeps clean and creating a lot of dust and confusion for a while and then slipping back into ministerial somno­lence. The Minister for Transport has been the administrative head of this department for something over three years and as a practical railway man and a reasonably intelligent citizen of this State .. I feel I am now free to express an opinion on the work ne has done.

The Minister has brought into the Railway Department at any rate a welcome gust of freshness, vigor and modernity that was lack­ing in the department for many years before he took over. It is very easy for a man of my benign and rharitable disposition to pay a compliment to anyone, even a qualified com­pliment, and while I realise that the Minis­ter is not a paragon of all the ministerial virtues-he certainly has not done all the things that I should have unhesitatingly done as Minister-nevertheless he is entitled to the qualified compliment I paid him. :Much as members of this Committee may feel in.clined to treat lightly any compliment I m1ght make, I want to read another compli­ment that has been paid to the :Minister. Such a compliment has not come from this source in my memory to any of the previous Minis­ters. We all remember the 1948 railway strike and the vehement and vitriolic attacks made by the Minister on the leaders of the finest union in the railway service, the A.R.U.

Mr. Rasey: That is a question.

llir. AIKENS: It is not a question. If the hon. member knew anything about rail· way unions he would not question that state­ment.

This is an extract from the leading article of the ''Advocate,'' which is the official journal of the Queenslam1 branch of the Australian Railways Union, under date 15 May:-

" New State ;\'linistry. "Mr. Hanlon, in allotting his portfolios,

has made an almost complete reshuffle of llis 11inisters.

''lt looked obvious that .Mr. Gair, as Deputy Leader, would go t? the. Treasu_ry, ]Jut there were some surpnses 1n rclatwu to the other members of the Ministry. For instance, Mr. Power seems to have been transferred to a relativBly junior position.

''Mr. Hilton, who is an ex-railwaymnn, has been appointed to the Cabinet vacancy <·reated by Mr. Bruce 's decision to retir•: from politics.

'' :Yir. Duggan remains Minister for T r ;msp ort.

''We think that most railwaymen will be pleased that hr is to remain as Ministeri(ll head of the Department.

''Mr. Duggan has brought youth and enthusiasm to the work of his Department. He has shoiYn that he has faith in tJp, future of the Railways and recognises they are a splendid asset to the State. At present, he is sponsoring some might;· pro· jects to improve the railway service to the people.

'' ln relation to tlle staff, he has al'.· :>.n: been a.pproachable and sympathetic to tb•ir needs.

"li'{e congratulate :!VIr. Duggan on :tg,tin being given the portfolio of :\1inister 1 o>· '.l'ransport.''

Coming from that source it is a tributE to the men who wrote it and a compli­ment from which the Minister should tu>·· considerable satisfaction. H{nvever, as J. have already said, the Minister is not, in my opinion, a paragon of all ministerial virh,e and as an ex-railway man and one who keeps in touch with the mates with whom he \rorkvd and because- I still retain my memlJer·ship o: the Australian Railways Union, by resolution o£ the State council of that body, l haY<' some constructive observations to make Hll<l

criticism to offer to still further improYc th railway services in this State.

\Ve know that the Railway Department is having considerable trouble in getting young men to join the department and one of the reasons is that the young men are being sent to outside depots to do their period of ser­vice. Human nature being what it is, these young men prefer to remain in the big c~t~es where they haYe the pleasures and amemt1cs and privileges that are there in abundance for young people to enjoy. There are some young men, however, who are prepared to make a career in the railway service and are prepared to go outsid~ t? the smaller st .. ations to get experience, semonty and promot:on ~c· vitally necessary to them if they are gomg to go up the ladder in their parti~ular branches. But the Railway Department 1s not helpmg young men in their desire b~ s~ndin~ them t.~ the outside depots; rather 1s 1t domg :>ll ; , can to drive young men out of the r.culwD~· service. Young men are sent out to reheve as night officers and sometimes they are sent out to open up staff stations and the only accom­modation provided is that they are compelled to bunk in the station building on perhaps an old canvas stretcher, sometimes with :;

Supply. [9 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1183

""' ttrcss and sometimes with no mattress; they might camp in the goods-shed or in the waiting room or anywhere where they ran got accommodation. Time and time again young 1uen, full of zeal and desire to make their life's work in the railway service, have been sent out to so:q1e desolate place and found that they had to take a canvas stretcher into the goods-shed or under some neigh­Luring gidgee tree and fend for themselves as best they could. And more often than not, they have walked off the job and gone !Jack to the city and got into some dead­end job.

\V e have known of fettlers who were sent out-and fettling is an important section of the Railway Department-to outside stations and given-and this is an authentic state­mrnt-a tent and a stretcher, but no floor to the tent. They are not even given tlw portable bath where you fill the old tin ·with water and by means of a piece of string through a pulley pull it up over your head with one hand and soap and wash yourself with the other. They have not been supplied with loose floor-boards to go inside the tent. Consequently these men also have walked off the job.

'rho present Couunissiouer for Railwu-'·' s: ems to share the ~Hnister 's enthusiasm and his desire for modernity, in direct contrast with the previous Commissioner, who was the best man we ever knew who could explain to you and tell you why a thing could nd and Rhoulcl not be done. At no time did he ~pply himself to the problem why something eonlu be done, or should be done. The ex-Commissioner, Mr. Wills, was a past­master at throwing cold water over any project. The present Commissioner, however, and I seem to be in a very expansive mood this morning in paying compliments; I hope the mood passes-seems to sharp with tlw Minister his desire to modernise the railwa~· serYice, but it is not much good having- :1

modernised railway system if we cannot !='Cl men to go out to the back country, and we eannot get men to go out to the b:1ck coun­try if we do not provide them "·ith the onlina.ry amenities of life.

I know that the Minister and the Com­missioner have gone to a great deal of trouble in providing improved accommodation in some other ways; in fact, it was my pleasure the other day to be shown at the Roma Street yard a travelling camp wagon that has been specially con­structed for trainmen in isolated depots. The Minister and the Commissioner were there, together with various departmental officials and officials of my union, the A.R.U. When I inspected this very fine travelling camp wagon, I asked the Minister whether he would not put a similar one on the Sun­shine Express and make it available to northern politicians when travelling to and from their electorates. So that in some respects the Minister and the Commissioner ~ue doing quite a lot to improYe the li,·ing conditions of men in the railway service.

But t ilerF is still much to be done, partic•J­larly if they· are to retain the young men i !l the service.

I\Ir. Kerr: Could not young men bf' recruited from nearby centres~

lUr. AIKENS: Usually, young men join the railway service in the nearest big city; for instance, in the North they join in such places as Townsville, Charters Towers, Innis­fail, and Cairns, and when a vacancy occurs in an outside depot for, say, a cleaner or a night-officer, or in any other grade, they are transferred out there. In such cases, when these young men get out there, they find that they have to camp under a gidgee tree or that thev have been supplied only with a tent and a stretcher, and nothing else. Xaturally, it is not long before they become uiscontented and disinterested in the rail­wa_rs. As a result, they roll up their swags -that is, if the young men of today use swags; I know I hm1 one when I was a young nu1n-and go to the nearest big town and get jobs that are well paid, although they rnny offrr no hope of promotion.

J shoul<l like to draw the attention of hon. men1 hers to one of the things that are driv­i;1o- voung men from the North, and I know th~t · they will be shocked. when they hear n bout it. In the Southern Division, all men perfonning the same work _rece~ve the ~ame pay, inespective of age, whrch _1s only nght. Classified employees in the Rmlway Depart­nwnt are paid not according to age, but acconling to the classification of the work tlwt the\' perform. For instance, all shunter,, or fire Ill en or guards and those holding similar classifitations in the Southern Divi­sion, recei,-e the smne rates of pay irresp<;,c· tinl of "·hcther they are under or over ~1 vears of nge, which is only right. A shunter at Roma Street who is only 20 years of age reech'es exactly the same rate of pay as one "·ho is 40 wars of age. That is only fair, because they are both doing the same work and are entitled to the same rate of pay under the Rnilwav Awnn1. In the Northern Division, howenr' a man who is under 21 years of age is paid 5s. less a week for the same work than one who is over 21 years of age. For instance, a shunter in Townsville aged 20 years ant1 11 months receives 5s. less a week in wages than one who is 21 years and 1 month old.

An Opposition Il£ember: Why the dis­crimination~

I\Ir. AIKE~S: The discrimination is bronght about because in the North a nortl~rn allowance of 10s. a week is paid to rnilway employees, hut it applies only to :u1nlt rnilwn:v employees. Employees who are unr1er 21, altbough their needs are just as grent as those of a man over 21, receive onlY 5s. a week northern allowance. And benr in minrl. too, that seniority in the rail­wny sen·iee doe~ not depend upon age. _In most gr:u1es of the railway service,. s_enonty brains frr,m the time that a man JOlllS the s<,;~vi~e. If n boy joined ns a cleaner at Ill

1184 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

years today and another boy joined at 20 years tomorrow as a cleaner, the 16-year-old boy would be senior to the older boy for the rest of his life antl so on in most other grades of the service. You might have a lad in Townsville 19 years of age, :firing, senior to another lad 21 years of age also :firing yet the senior younger boy would be getting 5s. a week less than the junior oltler boy. Is it any wonder that they are galloping away from the :!\forth and coming to Brisbane~ In Brisbane they are all paid the same rate but in the North the man under 21 years gets less than the man over 21 years. It is only right that they should be paid the same rate and until that anomaly is removed you will always have discontent and dissension in the Northern Division.

There is another matter, and it is a very burning one with railwaymen not only in' :'\ mth Queensland but in e'·ery other tli vision and that is the annual leave granted to work: shop employees. At the present time the workshop employees are compelled to take their mmual leave at the end of the year when the workshops close down for the Christmas period, with the result that they are taking their annual leave when all other employPes in industry are taking their annual leave and almost every other worker in every other calling is taking his Christmas leave. Consequently they have to crowd into trains alr?:l;dy overcrowded _by people coming to Bnsoane or to a seas1cle resort. Such a man i;; unable to get accommodation at the sea­side, unable to get accommodation in Bris­bane or Sydney, and more often than not he has to spend his annual leave at his own home because he f•annot get accommodation m1ywhere else. If he travels to any of the s8aside resorts he must do it in extreme dis­comfort. Why cannot workshop emplovees b.e allowed to take their annual leave at 'any tnne o~ the year~ Men in other sections of the Rmlway Department can take their holi­day~ at other times of the year, if it is con­vement to. the department, and so the employee m such a branch is in a position to make adequate arrangements for travel m:d arcommodation and is thereby able to taKe '-""''elf and his wife antl children to the seaside in comfort. But if he is a railway workshop employee he has to take his annual l_eave at Christmas time and be herded and .JOstled and stamped on and trampled on if he wants to get to a seaside resort. He can take th? other alternative and that is to spend lns annual leave in his own backyard digging up his vegetable patch. There will he unrest until this is granted.

1Ur. De~ar: Every other employee has La take lns annual leave at Christmas time.

llfr.. AIKEN,s: The hon. member is speakmg about the three or four days taken as holidays by employees between Christ­mas and New Year but the workshop rail­way employees have three weeks' annual leave and they have to take their three weeks' holiday at Christmas time.

3Ir. Dewar: And so do other employees.

lUr. AIKENS: In the business places such as T. C. Beirne 's, an employee can ask his boss for three weeks' holiday at any time of the year and usually gets it.

J:\Ir. Dewar: In industrial life, no.

Mr. AIKENS: I will check up on that statement. The hon. member does not look like a man who would make a false state­ment but I will check up on it and let him know tomorrow whether what he says is true.

I now want to deal with the hon. member for Cooroora, an ex-railway employee, who so far forgot himself the other day as to allow his political partisanship to override his good judgment. As an ex-railway man he should know that all trains cannot run at the same speed, that train speeds and train loads run to an average schedule. For instam·c the Railwav Department makes a test with the best j'JOssible engine, usually a nm;- one. It tries out a train that is speci­ally :marshalled on a special <lay and prob­ably with a special crew. It runs a test load and that test load stands for all engines of that type, all types of men and all types of days. Consequently all the trains cannot run to the schedule set clown. Tlte hon. member for Cooroora mnst know as an ex-railway emplo:·ee that n·cn if a train runs slow the drivpr and fireman are domg their best to get the train home on time.

If there is anything that a driver or :fire­man desires more it is to finish a run and get home as quickly as possible to get a decent feed and a decent bed to get a sleep.

Mr. Low: How is it that statistics show some trains run better than others~

lUr. AIKENS: The hon. member knows it is as simple to drive an engine fast as it is to drive a motor-ear fast. All you have to do is to put your foot on the accelerator and hang on. Any slogger or hasher can open his regulator, then hang on to his stan­chion, and hope for the best. Any mug or fool can drive an engine fast. A good engineman gets the highest possible speed out of his locomotiYe with the least possible con­sumption of fuel, and water, and the lowest repair bill. Consequently a well-driven loco­motive only goes into the workshops once in every four yl·nrs but most sloggers' loco­motives go in and out of the workshops every twel;-c months. Let me, for example, if possible, give each of this class of i!riv'lr a locomotive each.

I am bold enough to make this statement: I will bet that the competent driver will run his train and do enrything that the slogger will do and that his locomotive will enter the workshops only once in every four years aml his fuel consumption will be only seventy­:five per cent. of that of the slogger':;, while the slogger's locomotive will be in the 3hops every twelve months. Bot!1 the Commissioner and Minister will tell you that. The hon. member for Cooroora shonld know also that it is a physical 1mpossibility to arrange a train dhgram to obviate delays at some sidings. , If he can draw ip a trflin diagram for any division of the railway or

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. ll85

section of any division that will obviate delays. a~ some train sidings or crossings, then the. ~mister for Transport will offer him a positiOn at £10,000 a year. It is an absolute P.hysica~ impossibility to avoid delays on a smgle lme for there must be occasions when a train is pulled up on a siding waiting to cross. -

T~e hon. member m.ust know, too, that fast­movmg .passenger trams get the right of way every time ?ver a slow-m~ving goods train. A slow-movmg goods tram must be side­tracked to enable such trains to continue on their journey. I do not know whether the hon. member has had much experience in the service or whether his experience was con­fined to little branch lines-he talks as if it were-where it was possible on 7 miles of line to run a B-13 engine and a 15-ton van with not a damn siding on the road. He either talks from the depths of ignorance or from a des~re to score politically off the Minister. It IS not often that I come to the Minister's assistance, and possibly he will not thank me for doing so, but as an experienced railway enginedriver I was nauseated by the bunk the ~on. member for Cooroora talked about mak­mg trains go faster. I know that everv human being is fallible or as one member said here once, no ~an is inflammable. (Laughter.) I take it that all train-clerks on control are fallible and at times make lllistakcs. The fact is that it is impossible to run a single railway service without some delays at the crossing stations. The !:ton. member knows that.

I do not know whether the Minister will take my remarks now as a compliment or not ?ut I intend to shoot an arrow at random, a~ It were. When the English Rugby League footballers who recently visited Australia came to 'l'ownsville an application was made by the railway unions to see the match. I ~ave to. make my remarks brief as my time IS ru~mng out. The railway men wanted to get time off to see the Englishmen play and the;r made application through the 'local members and Cabinet met eonsidered their application, and perempt~rily rejected it. They went to some of the local me'll hers on the Labour side and they said '' V,T c can do nothing more, the Govern~1ent have sp?ke~.'' Then they came to me, nnrl I said, 'I will get you time off. We will organise a walk-out from the railway service in Townsville at 12 o'clock the Wednesdav of the match and I will be there to lea(l my .old wor~mates off the job.'' I gave the mformatron to the A.B.C. which broad­cast it on the National News and I sent it down in time for the late edition of the ''Brisbane Teleg~aph'' on Saturday. On the Monday the Cabmet met and reversed their previous decision and allowed the railway men their time off. The Minister for Trans­port was not here when the decision was made in the :first place, but I think he came back and resumed duty and was here on the Monday. If that is true I want to compli­ment him for realising the industrial strength that would have been exerted by me and my old workmates on that occasion. Since then the :\finistcr has agreet1 that railway men

1Yho took time off on that day can take the time ofT their annual leave. That shows that when all the old stereotyped political ayeuuc~ haye been exhn.usted there is the industrial might of the trade-union movement backed by the working-class members lik<' myself that c:m achieYe the seemingly impossible.

(Time expired.)

I\Ir. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader of the Opposition) (2.17 p.m.): I should like to have a word or two on these Estimates because I appreciate the fact that the opera­tion of the Railway Department has a very vital effect on the :finances of this State. If the department is paying well, it helps the Treasurer considerably with his deficits, but on looking at the statement of the finances of the Railway Department I should say that ihe Treasurer has a headache and the Minister 'in charge of the department cannot feel too happy about the :financial position of the department now and in the future.

If we look at the Auditor-General's report and take the operations of the department for the last three years we :find, taking into account tlw working surplus plus the interest charge, that the net loss of the department hns grown progressively over the period .. In 1947-48 it was £671,087, there was a shght dPn<'<ISP the following year, when it was £315,612, and in 1949-50 it was £1,466,046. 'rhis year, when the department is to feel the full impact of the projected basic-wage increasP, and notwithstanding the fact that the department will gain a considerable amount of reyenuc as a result of the rise in fares and freights, the deficit will be consider­a hly grrater. ·what concerns me most is the fact that the net earnings for the year 1949-30 without providing for the interest charge w~re 1 ,1, per train mile compared ~vith h. 4d. in 1948-49, 1vhich shows a very seriOus <1ecline aml gives an indiration of the Yery difficult :financial position faced by the denartment. Consequently the Railway Ddpartment is going to be a greater charge on Consolidated Reve1me iu the future than in the past.

Searching for the reason, 1ve have not far­to look, because it is undoubtedly due to the impact of the 40-hour week on operating costs. Realising that, largely as the result of the 40-hour 1veek, the overtime charged to the department last year amounted to £1,279,421 we can appreciat.e the tremend?us burden that this grent busmess unilertakmg of the State has to carrv as the result of it. It is the answer to clain;s made by hon. mem­bers opposite in nn cnde.wour to justify the introduetion of the legislation for the 40-hour week thnt it 'vonld~not rcrlucre production or incrensc cost on indnstrv. It has re<lucer1 the earning capacity and" has had n Yer;­scrious impnet on the cost of the llepartment.

:ur. Gair: You approved of the principle of the 40-hour 1wek hnt you <lisngrecd with the limitation of it. You wantc<l it extcll(ler1 to TUTnl workers.

-:\Ir. NICKI,IN: The Treasurer cannot get out of it like that. We did not neccpt

1186 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

the principle of the 40-hour week at all. 1 quoted these figures to show the tremendous burden the introduction of the 40-hour week has been on the Railway Department, as it has been on eyery other business undertaking.

~Ir. Foley: Why did you not quote the period when it showed a surplus and had unlimited traffid

:Jir. NICKLIN: What has that to do with it~

lUr. }'oley: A lot to do with it.

~Ir. NICKLIN: When we had unlimited traffic and showed a surplus the department 1ras working the 48-hour week. The railways have now unlimited traffic.

3Ir. Foley: A 44-hour week.

lUr. NICKLIN: The railways now have' such a .-olume of ti·aflic that they cannot handle it.

I congratulate the Minister on the very efficient job he has made of his portfolio since he took over the administration of the Railway Department. He brought a new and fresh outlook into railway affairs in this State and has shown a certain amount of vision and imagination in tackling some of the problems associated with it. I commend him for the energy, initiative and ability he lws shown. He has made a valiant effort to stem the tide but, unfortunately, circum­stances are against him. He is fighting a very uphill battle, principally as the result of the policy of his own party in regard to the 40-hour week.

The hon. gentleman invited criticism and T propose to offer some, which I hopr will be fair and constructiw. It is warranted. I a_n; not one who. thinks that the railway positwn generally. m Queensland is happy. I do not agree With hon. members opposite who say that everything in the Railway Department is lovely, that Queensland has the best service in the \vorld. Far from it. There . are very mrmy improvements and n.lteratwns that can he made within the opera­tions 0"!' the rlepartment that would make it. lwtter from the point of view of service ancl revenue.

For the moment we find that the services ~eneral!y in the departnient are not being 1mp:oved. as they should be; there has been a shght Improvement since the war ended in: some respects but in other respects they have slrpped back very considerably. We find that the department cannot handle the business o~cri;lP.' _and t.hat gives us all an opportunity of tlnnlung of reasons \Vhy that should be so. The other . night one hon. member opposite ga Vl' us qmtc a dissertation on the new Sun­shine Express and what would he the posi­tiOJ: of the. Railway Department when that tram came mto operation. Mr. Farrell, one Hwallow does not. make a summer nor will onP; Sunshine train bring efficien~y to the R.mlwav Department. In addition to the one Sunshine train, a general improvement is nrr<lrd in the railw::~.v service and that can be

brought about by greater attention _to many of the details that are at present bemg over­looked, details that could be put into opera­tion without extra expense and without a great deal of effort on anybody's part. For example, we shoul<l endeavour to inculc:tte amongst the employees of the service a greater emphasis on s~rvice to the public, who after all are the masters in a system such as the R.ailway Department or for that matter any other transport clcpartmcn t. Although per­sonally I have always had the greatest cour­tesy from the majurity of railway employees, I come in contact with people who complain about things and \Yho complain of the lack of interest on the part of employees and c<·nsequently lack of service to the public as a result. Unfortunately we have transport organisations such as the airways and the road-coach people who place great emphasis on service and as a result we get a marked contrast between the airways and the road­t mnspOTt ~ sPrYices as against the Raih1'a~· Department. T'nfortunately, the department does not conw out of the comparison very well. Later I sklll h(' making suggestiO'ls to the Minister hv '' hich I hope he should l:c able to imprm:P that outlook nmongst rail­way employees g·enerally and so bring into the department the service thnt \YC get from competing transport org:misations.

I bt>lieve thnt there nre two great bottle­necks iu the development of the department and its eflieie'tCY. The first seems to J,e Pn the repnir si<le of the rlepartment and the seeond nt Boma Street in the handling· of goods. ""s to the repair section, although wr haw ·oTkshops nt Ips\Yich and in other parts of the Rtntc· that justifiably have good repub­tions :'or tlcc• nmount. and qnality of the work thev tnrn ont, they do not seem to be able to eyei1 cate;h up with the lag of work or e,·en maintain the position in regard to the amount of work coming to tlwm. Admittedly the great bulk of the \YOrk is coming to them as the result of thr mutimc lag in replacements nnd repairs in the department. One would have thought that by now they would have caught up on the repair side, but we do not s€em to be able to, aud instead of improvi:tg, the position is lwcoming more or less worse. Fmnlo,·ees of the IpswidJ workshops are working 1 ~ hours overtime a day at Rn annnal cost to the department of £256,335, but despite this we clo nat seem to be 'able to get anywl1rre in CRtching np on the lag in repairs.

I know tltat the clepartment has let out to priYate contractors some repair and renovation work, and I should likP the Minister to give us some indication of comparative costs and eomparative times fo1· comparable jobs in respect of the railway workshops and private contractors. B ,- that moans we could test the efficiency of oui· workshops and possibly get a lead towards the solution of the problem of repairs. Information given to me is to the effect that primte contractors are doing com­parable jobs much quicker than the railway workshops, Rnu at a lower cost. The essence of the position in effecting railway repairs is the time tnken, nnd the organisation that is doing the job iu the shortest possible time ;~

Supply. [9 NOVEMBER.] Snpply. 1187

the one of which greater use should be made to overcome the present bottle-neck caused lJy the Jag in repairs.

And now we come to the second bottle-neck, whieh is caused by the chaotic conditions­and no other word can describe them-that exist in the Roma Street railway yards today. I do not know whether thp volume of business going through the yards is such that the chaotic conditions cannot be overcome, but very serious delays are taking place in both inward nnd outward traffic. I suggest to the Minister that he should institute a special departmental inquiry into the position at the Roma Street yards, because I believe that the whole system there needs a complete over­haul in order to eliminate the tremendous delays that are occurring. The position is so bad that I understand the merchants of Brisbane are thinking very seriously of quot­ing their customers for goods on the basis of ex-store instead of f.o.r., as has always been the custom, because of the tremendous delays that are taking place between the time that the goods leave their respective stores and the time they are unloaded off their lorries at Roma Street. As a matter of fact, one mer­chant told me last week that he sent his car­rier away from his store at 8 o'clock in the morning, and that the carrier came back at midday with the goods still on the truck because he could not haYe them received at the yards for dispatch. Such conditions are to the advantage of neither the customers of the Railway Department, nor the Railway Department itself, and I strongly urge the ).Iinister to institute n full and complete inquiry into the position with the object of nscertaining the real cause of the delay and, if possible, eliminating it.

I give the instance of fruit arriving at Homa Street from the ::--Jorth Coast. One of the main fruit tmins to the Brisbane markets, 162, invariably runs hours late, although in p:,st years it ran as regularly as clockwork and fruit carried by it reached the markets in time for the early:morning sale. Now, how­ever, as the result of the erratic running of this train, the department has lost to road transport virtually the whole of the fmit traffic from the near North Coast. The erratic running of this train, which carries such a perishable commoclity, is a blot on the cfftcient working of the Railway Department.

It has reached such a position in the com­mercial worlc1 and amongst railway cus­tomers generally that there should be a full and extensive inquiry into the matter. I believe that the difficulty eau be overcome and the same efficim1t service that used to operate at Roma Street can be restored.

Let me make one or two suggestions for general improvement in the passenger ser­vice. The first thing is to eliminate as far as possible many of the unsuitable types of coaches used for passenger traffic today. At holiday time and other special occasions everything that will run is called into com­mission but that does not mean that they should remain in commission throughout the year. Many of these coaches are very much out of date, but although they have yer;· sound bogeys and woodwork, are really 30

years B.D.-which means ''Before Duggan.'' (Laughter.) I suggest that many of tltem, structurally sound, can be reconstructed. Some of them are still running, but if they could be reconstructed to become more modern coaches than they are nmv, the.) would be of more use and credit to tlw department. Many pullman sleepers an• used as sitting coaches on inter-city trains, but this type of eoa.eh is not suitable as :l

sitting coach, nor arc some of the olclcr pullman coaches suitable for that purpose. Hecently I hac! the pleasure-not very muel1 pleasure, I assure you-of travelling in one of these old-type pullman cars; I should have been much more comfortable on top of a three-railed fence. However, the con­ductor hacl the c1ecency to apologise to every passenger in the car for its condition--the upholstery and everything else was falling

. to pieces, and he said that it should 11'. ver have been on the run. And neither it should.

My time is running out. I promised the Minister that before I concluded my speech I would make some suggestion that would help in the working of the railwavs. 1 repeat a suggestion that I 'made some time ago, that there should be a uniform make· up in trains wherever possible. On many an inter-city train with eight or nine coaches there will probably be eight or nine differen1 sorts of coaches, whereas if the train wa~ marshalled with a uniform type of coaches. it \\·ould give greater comfort to the gcnem' public.

I suggest to the Minister aho that he endeaYour to inculcate into the service some idea of the responsibility that all the employees owe to the general public. Every employee of the Hailway Department i" a member of a great co-operative organisa.­tion, which is owned by the State, of which he or she is part-owner, and consequently the objective of all should be to give the very 1 1est service that this great organisa­tion ean give to the public. I am iurlined to think that quite a number of railway employees do not appreciate that point of view, nnd so I suggest to the Minister that in between sessions he take a State-wide tom of Queensland and speak to the railwa;, employees on this point. He can ad~lress the employees at strategic points and give them an idea of the responsibilities of every one associated with the department in orde1 to inculcate a spirit of better team work than exists at the present time. If we can get that team work among the employees, and everyone of them working as part of a team, we should make the department both efficient and effective and that would be a major contribution not only to the work of the department but to the service given to the public also. The pub1ic must always be right as they provide the £ s. d. that make the wheels go round. There are very many things in the department that are not up to the mark and we should not sit back and fail to take notice of them. It is not a bit of use saying that everything in the garden is lovely. Let us see that our trains are clean, that the services are run more to time, and that they are what the public want,

1188 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

an(l let us see, too, thRt the public get the service it requires, just as it gets it from those very serious competitors to the rail­ways, the airways and road-transport services.

Mr. GRAHA~I (Mackay) (2.43 p.m.): It has boon very interesting to hear the con­tributions to this debate that have come from both the Government and Opposition benches, and it is very enlightening to listen to the congratulatory comments tendered to the Minister and his administration. He has given us a very progressive policy and has contributed very largely to the improve­ment that has been noted in the service the last few years. It can be said, and said truthfully, that the railways are not up to what we should like them to be, but we must remember that they are only now recovering from the effect of the strenuous war years, during which the department had to undertake a great responsibility and, as has been said on many occasions, the Minis­ter, his staff and employees did a remark­able job. The reason why we have perhaps not got back to normal is that we are suf­fering from the effect of the wear and tear of those war years.

I defy contradiction of the statement that the department today is giving particularly good service. There are many faults that can be rectified. There ~re m~nv wavs in which improvements can be effected, but on the whole the people cannot find much fault with the administration and the service •given to them. The department as common carriers has the responsibility of transport­ing the whole of our wheat crop, the whole vf our cane crop, the whole of our live­stock, and all the other things that go to make up the life of a nation. While there have been delays and perhaps reason for complaints I can, as an ex-railway employee, ;aay that the department is giving a service that should satisfy the most s4ringent critic.

The Commissioner's report is a very com­prehensive one and gives a very clear picture of the workings of the department. It tells us of the difficulties that confronted the depart­ment over the past 12 months. I know that the Commissioner and the Minister an as desirous of giving a good and efficient service to the people as other railway employees are. We know that no State could continue with­out a railway system. Over the past years we have seen improvement in aerial services and in the motor-transport system, but despite their progress and their potentialities for development we shall still have to have a railway system. It is our railways that have been responsible for the development of this State. We know that lines were built to various areas although it was known they would not pay but would be very valualile lu helping to develop those areas and bring about settlement. Perhaps in the near future we shall have to consider the laying down of further lines because there is much room for ·development in this young State and for that purpose the railways are essential.

Many of the difficulties we are encountering are due to a great extent to the increased traffic that the Railwa:v Department is expected to handle. 'vV e know that since the end of the war railway traffic has increased to a large extent and many of the complaints levelled against the department are due to the increased traffic that it has had to meet, with insufficient engine-power and rolling stock that was not in good condition. The department lws made every effort to remedy these defects and from the departmental report we see that a considerable sum has been allocated for additional engine-power and rolling stock, both of which will be very necessary if we are to meet the increased tmffic that is expected in the next few years.

Duri;g the war the railways were worked to the limit anrl engines and rolling stock fell into a state of disrepair because it was impossiblE' for the department to keep up with the need for maintenance work; and toda:v we are still feeling the effects. of it. The Department has also been faced w1th the (lifficulty of getting staff because of the demand on labour made by outside employers. We know it is not as easy to get fitters, car­penters or wagon-builders and other trades­men necessary to carry out repair work. Even though the department is offering attractive conditions to employees, many of its sections are under-staffed; consequently we have to accept the position as it is because the department cannot cope with the demand for the maintenance of rolling stock and repairs to engines.

The Minister is to be congratulated on his progrcssh·c policy in providing for additional rolling stock and engine-power. The report sh<nrs the muonnts allocated for new engines uml rolling stock. It has been necessary to go on~rsea-s ancl give tenders to outside con­tractors for repairs and construction of engines aml rolling stock. The reports on the new Be:yer-Garratt engines are interesting but l think it might have been better had 1 hP (Lpartment concentrated on the construc­tion of :td(litional BlR± engines. As an ex­ra'lwa\· loeomotivc man I know the value of these 'eng-ines an,1 from discussing it with other railwa.\" engine-drivers I know that they think it is the hest locomotive the Rnilway Department has had.

The ([enlopmcnt of the engine-power in the Hailwa;· Department is very interesting. When I joined as a lad cleaner, B13s, B12s anc1 Bl5s \YPre in use. I then saw the intro­duction of the Cl6, C17 and Cl9 engines and today I see the Beyer-Garratt. Here I might mention that one of the most unfortunate incidents connected with engine-power in the Raih,-ay Department was the use of the war­time Garratts, which proved very unsuitable_ At that time they would have been of immense Yalue to the department.

itir. Low: They did a good job during the war.

~Ir. GRAHAM: The war-time Garratts were a complete failure. I do not think they could have been used either economically or succeosfully in Queensland. The Beyer­Garratts have recently arrived and only time

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1189

will tell whether they are successful, but from the reports and conversations I have luu1 1vith loco men thoy think they are satis­f*·tory ami doing a particularly good job.

lUr. Low: Do you think they will do ,':m:ugP to the permanent way~

lUr. GRAHA~I: I do not think so because the Minister and the Commissioner are see­ing to it that the tracks are improved before tltl· Bever-Garra tts are run. I do not think thev ":ill have any bad effect. If there is nn; danger in them, I think it is more in relation to cm·ves than anything else.

Dome Opposition members have criticised the Government for the loss in the Railway lJeprHtment in the past 12 months but it nlllst be remembered that in that period rises i11 costs have been general-in wages, materials :md so forth. The Railway Depart­ment, in an endeavour to recoup some of the loss, found it necessary to increase the rates and fares but had it raised them sufficiently to meet the loss occasioned a general outcry would be the result. Thel'c have been increases in fares and freights over the past ti or 7 vears. Naturallv the Government have been ci·iticised but it· was necessary to do v:lwt they dicl. People in the eountJry, the primary prodnecrs, an• those who use the r:,ii wa:·s most, consequently in order to l'C'('Onp the loss it 11·ould J!()t he a good thing to increase fare., and freights ag:•in but the depnTtmcnt should endeavour to improve e11ic:i:•m·v within :111(1 eut out the huge over­time b:h of rnilwav workers. The~ railwav worker today, 'vluither nn engine-drivel\ g'nDl'cl, rlt'rk, or in ·whatever section he is employed, is in receipt of good \\'ages and condition<J :mt1 t1ors not want to work over­time. The typical railway worker today ' ould l>e happy if he could work his 40 hours and then finish up, but we know that l:ccnnsc of the demand on the railways rail­,, :1,~- v·or~zC'r~ iu nlaJ1.Y parts nre being asked 1o work excessiYe overtime. Tt is the respon­'ihility of tlw Minister, Commissioner and thn administration to see that the overtime is cut (lmn1 as much as possible.

I re:lli'oC that it is impossible to eliminate oYertimo entirely because there are such things ns late trains, engines breaking down and delays and consequently there will alwaYs be a certain amount of overtime. The point I make is that there are ways and means by which overtime could be elimin­ated to some extent. In regard to the work­shops too I know it is necessary at times, e··pecially at present, to catch up with the hacklag in maintenance. As to the running section, if more attention was paid to con­b·ol anc1 if men with greater capacity were pnt into such positions we might see some definite reduction of the present overtime being worked.

As a previous speaker stated, the depart­ment is experiencing difficulty in maintain­ing staff and it has been necessary in the past few months to increase the joining age in the locomotive section from 23 to 27 years. If anybody had said 20 years ago that it would have been possible for a man of 27 to come into the department as a

cleaner, he would have been laughed at. I joined the t1epnrtment at 11 and those who '':lllle in at J !J were considered old. Because er the mgency to recruit staff the depart­ment is t:1king iu men of 27 years anci 1 do not know whether the outlook for those young men could be termed bright. lt may be that the development of Queensl:md will allow them to become drivers within eight or nine years. It may be that they will be like myself and others who joined at an earl,v age and were on the job until we were 28 before ,1·e got on the right side of the engine. The point is that it is necessary for the department to recruit as many employ­ee' n;' it can so that the c;evelopment of the Dtnte can proceed.

1 t was intcre,ting to hear the hon. member for Cooroora speaking about the cunes bch,een Coor:m nnd (fympie. He mnst know that qu~llified engineers were responsible for the laymg down of that railway line. As one who has had many years' experience in the department, I would not question a qnalified engineer as to why there should be a curve here or there or a straiO'ht line at any particular point. "

lUr. Low: In those days they got paid so much a curve.

~Ir. GRAHA:tti: Whoever told the hon. member was pulling his leg. vVe should accept the fact that the railway lines today altho:1gh the;·_ were laid 40 or '50 years ago: :mcl 1rrespecbve of how many curves there ::re, have no bearing on speed or haulage. The _only restriction in regard to load is the grachont and the department is endeavour­ing to reduce gradients so that larger loads ea.n be hauled. By having larger engines 'nth greater haulage power we arc able to haul gTeater loads. I remember seeing a B13 pull 150 tons from Mackay to Netherdale and I have known a B15 pull 300 tons. A C19 pulled 650 tons and a BeyeT-Garratt won]~ most lil<ely pull 750 or 800 tons over certam sections.

As I said quite early in my speech I think the public in Queensland are sati;fied go1;erally with the service given by the R:uL1·a.'· Department. I believe that the avernge railway traveller has little to corn plain about in the service provided for him. H owcveT, I think the convenience of the tnn·elliug publ~c conld be increased by an nnpTovement m the railway refreshment rooms. I do not say that these Tefreshment Tooms aTe not giving good service at present but I believe it could be improved. I realis~ ~hat th~. department is experiencing difficulty m staffmg refreshment rooms in isolated areas and that because of its desire to speed up its trains, they cannot be held at refresh­ment TO?ms for 10 or 15 minutes to provide the serv1ce that everybody would IiJ,e, How­ever, I believe that a greateT effort should be made to pTovide the travelling public with a bett0r refreshment-rooms service.

For instance, take the Northern Mail, which leaves Brisbane at 8 p.m., arrives at Bundaberg at 5 a.m., at R.osedale at 7.30 a.m., at Gladstone at 9 a.m., at Rockhampton

1190 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

at 11.45 a.m., and so on; I believe that if the buffet mn that is at present attached to that train at Rockhampton was attached at Bundaberg, morning tea and breakfast could be served to the passengers on the train, thus effecting a great saving of time. At present, the train stops at Gladstone for 25 minutes and at Rosedale for 10 minutes, and that time would be saved if a buffet car wus attached to the train.

Then again, take such places as St. Law­rence, where the department has to provide a staff of about 10 or 12 people to serve refreshments to mail-train passengers. The train stops there for only 7 minutes, and it is virtually impossible for many people to ohtain a cup of tea. By the time they get out of the train and walk the length of the plntform to the refreshment rooms and get a cup of tea, the 7 minutes is almost up. I belie1·e it would be better if the refreshment rooms at St. Lawrence were cut out and afternoon tea proYicled in the buffet car. It ••oulcl mean the saving of 6 or 7 minutes in time, and would also save the cost of having the refreshment room there. At present it is not giving a very great service to train t m vellers.

. If we look at the Railway Department from angles such as those, we can see many ways in which the desires of the travelling public <'an be met more satisfactorilY. How­>'Yer, wiH'n we realise' the magnitud~ of the Hailwav Department. that it. has 26 000 employet·s and 6,000 miles of line, that m'any employees are stationed in isolated areas, 1UHl that it carries huge quantities of pro­duce, I do not think any hon. member can honestly condemn it. I believe that the rail­way service Queensland is receiving today, although it could be improved upon leaves little to complain about. If we had ~ popu­lation of 30,000,000 people, or one like that of the United States of America we could provide a much better service. ' However, when we realise that it is possible to board u train in Brisbane and travel 1 000 miles to Cairns in less than 48 hours and

1

be looked after fairly well en route, I think we have little to complain about.

Consider for a moment the countless thousands of livestock carted on the railways, the millions of tons of cane, the heavy merchandise and goods from all parts of the State. Consider the carriage of the wool from the western areas and the transport of cattle to the metropolis and other cities for slaughter. Consider also the train miles run in carrying passengers from the Far West and the North to the southern parts o£ the State-consider all these things and no-one will be justified in condemning the railway service. True, there may be room for some improvement here and there, and hon. mem­bers are justified in suggesting them to the Minister, but they will not be justified in blaming railway employees for any fault in the present system. Let me say without hesitation that 99 per cent. of the railway employees are honest, conscientious and effi­cient, with a proper regard to the honourable and honest discharge of their duties. The .average railwayman has a keen sense of his

responsibility and is particularly iuteresteil in his work, although of course, as in all sections of industry, you may occasionally find the one who is not pulling his weight. Generally they are proficient employees.

(Time expired.)

}fr. EWAN (Roma) (3.7 p.m.): Realising the important part that the railways have played in the development of this State an<l the part they will continue to play in the future, I do not intend to discuss this department in a derogatory spirit. At the outset I make it perfectly clear that I haYe a very deep sense of appreciation of the difficulties confronting the Minister, his staff, and all members of the Railway Depart­ment in the administrative, technical and :financial :fields. Particularly have I a proper realisation of the toll of wear and tear that has been taken of our raihYay system-and these observations may occasion criticism in some quarters-wear and tear occasioned to a large extent by rough or maximum usage of the railways during six vears of total war. Over the past few years, steps have been taken by the Minister and his staff to bring about a complete rehabilitation of the· whole system at very great cost :financially, in material and in man-power. Some people may think that sufficient progress has not been made in this respect and that of course is open to argument. The progress may not have been as muc~ .as w.e should have liked, nevertheless the Mrmster 1s deserv· ing of ·very gn>at credit for what has already been clone. We hope he will continue the good work and that he will leav~ . no. stone unturned to bring about the rehabrlrtatwn of the system that will be necessa;y in the interests of the development of thrs State.

I agree substantially with the argum_ents advanced by the hon. member for Aubrgn;r today particularly in relation to the electn· :ficati~n of the suburban railways at this juncture-and I say at this . j_u~ctu;e advisedly. I believe that all actrVItres m this State and throughout the Common· wealth of Australia at this juncture must necessarily serve a defence purpose, that we must not undertake any great development scheme unless it has a particular defence value. I submit, with all 'due respect to the advocates of the electrification of the sub­urban railway system, that it will have no defence value. On the other hand, I submit that the building of the Charleville· Blackall link would have a very decided defence val1_1e. The money that will be put into the electn:fi­cation scheme would more than pay for the link together with ver-y many other links that are necessary. The lin~ from Wancl?an to Taroom is another vital lrnk. Many vrtal links have been discussed by both Govern­ment an cl Opposition members, such . as the Djarra-Camooweal line to .connect ~ltrmately with the line to Darwm. Whrle these necessary links remain to b~ constr_uct.ecl, the expenditure of £14,000,000 m electn.fymg the suburban railway system would be s1mply a waste of money.

:i)[r. Duggan: Where do you get the £14,000,000 from W

Supply. [9 NovEl\IBBR.] Supply. 1191

JUr. EW A~: I. stand to be corrected if the :Minister will correct me.

:I'i:fr. Dug·gan: We hope it will cost no mon than about £10,000,000.

Jir. F.W AN: The Minister has given me nn assurance that the electrification of the suburb:1n railwavs will cost no more than £10,000,000, but· if the present inflationary tendencies persist by the time the Minister gives effect to the scheme, if in the mean­time he ignores the advice given him on those links that will have a defence value, it will cost something like £14,000,000.

lUr. Duggan: If Labour is put back on to the Federal Treasury benches it will put value back in the £1, awl it will not cost that amount.

~Ir. EW AN: I will not emerge into the field of prophecy by looking into the crystal and hoping that such a thing may occur. It is my intention to confine myself to a few observations that may help both the public and the railway employees. I suggest that " complete investigation should be undertaken of freight classifications. In my area, anc1 nll the western areas, the residents think that our present freight classifications are loaded against the country in favour of the city people there by increasing the cost of living )n inland areas an cl making a definite contribu­tion to the present drift to the city from those areas. In a previous speech I drew the Minister's attention to the fact that the people living along the western railway line were being charged 5c1. to transport a loaf of bread a distance of 20 miles from Roma. Is it any wonder that the residents of those areas think that the freight classifications are loaded against them in favour of city dwellers~ At another time I made represen­t,, timlR to the 1\UniRter to enable the residents nf Roma to take advantage of the week-end pxcursions that are extended to all city and town people. I asked the Minister to extend to the people of Roma the right to buy an excursion ticket for the Western Mail train that leaves Roma at half past 10 or a-quarter to 11 on Friclay night, to enable them to take advantage of the excursion rates. Let me say this before I cleal with his reply. By going a distance of 20 miles clown the line the people could avail themselves of the excursion rate, which shows that those western people were denied the privilege extenclecl to the people who were living closer. When rejecting my request the Minister indicated that it would cause a considerable amount of expense to the department because it would have to be extent1ed to all other railway stations throughout the State. If that is so, what is wrong with extending that privilege to the other country railway stations that are in the same category as Roma or west of Roma when the city people and those in the more favoured areas are entitled to it? Surely the people living in the remote areas and developing them are entitled to the same con­sideration.

The hon. member for Aubigny talked about stock trains and clrew much criticism and many interjections. In the earl! twen.ties I did a considerable amount of tram drovmg.

Over a periot1 of six months I took ten loads of bullocks from Quilpie to Sydney. My experience when in charge of those cattle was not a very happy one.

The hon. member for J\iiumlingburra gave us a long dissertation about what is practic­able and impracticabl<:> in the passing of trains on single-track lines. It has occurred to me that perhaps it would be possible to provide more staff stations-I think that is the term used-where trains could pass. During the luncheon adjournment I cliscusset1 this matter very briefly with a member of this Committee who has hat1 some experience of this sort of thing ancl he told me the permissible delay would be somewhere about ~0 minutes. In 1922-23-24 ancl up to 1925-it is the same today-we had delays of our stock trains of up to three hours.

~Ir. Sparkes: Is that all?

lUr. EW AN: That is all that I have experienced. Furthermore, because of these clelays in passing other trains I founcl that on the 10 trips to Syclney, from Quilpie to Wallangarra the fastest time for the trip was 12 miles an hour on the average.

I dicl not let my investigations rest there. That was my personal experience. I made investigations of our trucking at a siding called Marnhull near Dalby, a distance of approximately 180 miles from Brisbane, ancl would you believe me, the time it takes to bring stock from Marnhull to Cannon Hill, a distance of 180 miles, is 21 hours. That is on the average-the magnificent speed of 9 miles an hour.

JUr. Jesson: When they go faster you growl that the cattle are bruised.

~Ir. EW AN: I thank the hon. member, whoever it was, who made that interjection. Anyone who knows anything about stock knows that when they are in a confined space and standing erect for any great length of time they become uneasy and start lumber­ing about. That is how bruising occurs, and it causes loss of weight and is cruelty to ilumb animals. I have trucked stock at Quilpie at 2 o'clock one afternoon and those rattle were confiner1 to the truck for 50 hours before they were untrncked.

~Ir. Smith: How is it that cattle can be railed from Cloncurry to Cannon Hill and there top the markeU

~Ir. EWAN: The hon. member for Carpentaria knows a little bit about cattle. I do not know whether he knows too much or too little, but I would indicate to him, in case he does not know, that stock are detrained at various points along the line.

~Ir. Smith: Tell us about the good work the department is doing.

~Ir. EW AN: I am not criticising the goocl work the department is doing: the Railway Department is doing a good job but I am putting forward suggestions that I hope will enable the department to give a better service.

1192 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

As to additional annenities on long-distance trains. I think it was the hon. member for Bremer who endeavoured to show that the hon. member for Aubigny said filthy condi· tions existed on some trains.

Mr. Sparkes: So they do.

Mr. EWAN:. I will not draw any punches. Sometimes filthy condition do exist on the WPstern mail trains but they are not the fault of the staff. '

Mr. Smith: The passengers?

Mr. EWAN: Exactly, because of the very poor sanitation on those trains. There are no showers on them and the hon. member for Carpentaria should be the first to rise and help me to get some form of showers on long-distance trains. He knows what it is like when women with children have to wash the babies and kiddies in small basins. It is impossible to do so satisfactorily and showers should be provided.

Additional privacy should be extended to female passengers in puUrnan sleepers. The conductors on the Western Mail train com­plained to the Industrial Court and asked that two conductors be worked on that train. I have already indicated here that I was in full accord with their request. I have observed conductors endeavouring to control a whole train of eight or ten carriages; probably drunks passing through ladies' compartments and the only protection ladies in sleepers have is a thin curtain. Does the Minister think one conductor can do the whole of that work~ Of course he cannot.

As to sanitation: how many times does one hear ladies and gentlemen complainin~r that it takes them days to get over a trai .i"llr­ney because of the lack of decent snnit a­tion ~ (Laughter.) This provok<es mirth in the Government benches. It is appar<:'nt that those members who laugh are metropolitan members. There is the indiscriminate dis­charge of human waste on the permanent way ad lih. without any consideration for the fact that employees working on the permanent way such ns maintenance men a11d fettlers have to work thereon, often in a temperature of 120 degrees in the shade. The supply of water they can carry on their smnll tricycles is snch that they can use it only for drinl<ing purposes in working honrs. There is no water to wash their hands, unless the Good Lord sends down a shower of rain.

Mr. Devries: You have not travelled among the fettlers' camps.

lUr. EWAN: I have been round the fettlers' camps and I have travelled on trolleys with the fettlers. It is very easy for the Secretary for Public Instruction to throw such remarks at a new member but he happens to have struck a new member whom he cannot overawe with distortions and unsavoury tactics. I want to indicate to the Committee, in fairness to the Minister and his staff, that he might give consideration to the provision of dissolvenators on these long­distance trains.

Furthermore, I suggest that the depart­ments might consider better accommodation for its permanent employees, particularly in relation to the provision of better water .facilities. In times of drought in the West, when their rain-tank is empty-they only have tin-pot tanks-they have open ship's tanks which are filled as the train passes by--

lUr. Devries: They are closed.

Mr. EW AN: Then they must have been closed in the last week or two. I can assure the hon. gentleman that I could have shown him 100 open tanks in the 1946 drought. What would be wrong with the department's providing its permanent employees with cottages~ It does provide cottages for the higher-ranking employees, but what about the shunters and the men working in the loco. sheds and various other places~

Mr. Smith: They are.

Mr. EW AN: I do not see any in the town of Roma.

Mr. Smith: You travel by car.

Jir. EW AN: I travel by train.

lUr. Jesson: You have only travelled by train since you got your pass.

}Ir. EW AN: The interjection indicates to me that the hon. member for Hinchinbrook does not travel by train. He travels 70 miles an hour over the roads. Superman!

I hope to have the pleasure one of these days of introducing the Minister to a few of his permanent employees who are married men with families. They are saving, thrifty and good citizens.

I\Ir. Jesson: Very good men

I\Ir. EWAN: I agree with the hon. mem­ber. By the sweat of their brows they have bought homes in towns and are rearing families, but when they are transferred they cannot buy houses. I know that in Roma there are permanent railway employees whose wives and families live in the city of Warwick.

lUr. J. R. Taylor: You bought a house in Romn.

l\Ir. EWAN: That is correct. I have no apologies to make for living in my ovm electorate.

Furthermore, I suggest-and I mentioned the matter in a previous speech-that the Minister make a full investigation into the adequacy or inadequacy of the western allowance for railway employees. I have investigated this matter to the best of my ability and I find that the western allowance as far West as Chinchilla is ls. 3d. a day or Ss. 9d. a week. From Chinchilla to Mucka­dilla-and in case hon. members representing city electorates do not know where Mucka­dilla is, I say it is between Roma and Mitchell-the western allowance is Is. 9d. a day or 12s. 3d. a week, and from Muckadilla to Quilpie and/or Cunnamulla it is 2s. 6d. a day or 17s. 6d. a week. That western allow­ance is to cover the difference in the cost of

S1tpply. [9 NovE~IB.EH.] Supply. 1193

li1·iug in those areas as against the City of HrisiJalw, and it is for a man, wife and tlnee chiluren.

Tlw t i~ how the court uetermines it. In rp;pe!'t of my OWl! area-that is, from Chin­ull,;a tu 2\iuckadilla-it is coutenued that l::s. :>tt. a \\ eek represents the extra cost 01 e-r tlit: metropolitan area for the essential <·onmwciities covered by the C Series lnuex. L !,a>. c ~aid before tl;at I never enter the ,,,cl<, cd prophecy or look into the crystal, as :-.una• hon. 111einbcrs on the Government side ·"'Clll to, but I believe tll'at if the Minister '"ill nn·l<'rtake the investigation I suggested, lie 11·!ll Iilld that the uificrence in the cost ,,; li1ing in that area, for whid1 12s. 3d. a week i~ now l>eing paid, is somewhere in the 1 ieinitv of from 25s. to 30s. a week. In l':,ime~s to the great number of employees <'i•Ht•·rHcd, I seriously ask the Minister to <·uucluct that investigation.

IUr. Devries: The railway employee ,·ece eves an allowance that the station-hand does not.

lUr. EW AN: But his wages are not in the same category as those of the station­hlll.nd. The single station-liand is kept by the property-owner, and all he has to do is to buy his clothes ::mcl proYide money for n holiday.

}[r. Devries: The station-hand does not receive 1 s. 3d. a day western allowance.

Jlir. EW AN: 'T'he station-hand does receive a western parity.

· (Time exphed.)

lUr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (3.32 p.uL) : The Leader of the Cpposition, whose r_m:tn s l!O duu!Jt will be anSIYeretl by the _\i':li· :er, amused me by describing some railway coaches as '' B.D.' ', which he said inclic·:ttecl ''Before Duggan. '' He has t cmptecl me to be witty, too, and to suggest tlwt the polic~· he advocates for the railways is ''B. A.''-'' Before A dam.''

An Opposition Member: That is very weak.

:rtir. BURROWS: It is weak, almost as 1\·pak :1s the arguments of the Country Party.

The hon. member objected to having to travel in pullman coaches in the suburban nren·' \rhen those coaches are not being used as sleepers. Every week some of the Cen­trr.l Queensland members have the pleasure of srending ahout 30 hours in a pullman coach; we have to sleep in them two nights a YYee\ yet accoruing to the Leader of the Opposition it is a crime that someone should h:n·c to sit up in them. I do not think any grcn t hardship is imposed on anybouy as the res~tlt of a la~ k of travelling comfort in our trains. A' a (~ueenslander, I am 110t ashamed or the Queensland railways. As I have said pre\'iO<lsly, I h:1ve used this public utility r:tther ext::nsively, particularly during the ras~ three ~'ears, and I think I am entitled to sn:' that I speak from experience and with confidence on this matter.

Hon. memlJcrs opposite criticise the rail­wrtys not only here, but all OYer the country and from Ollc year's end to another.

.:rtir. H. B. Taylor: And after a lot of constructive ideas.

JUr. BURIWWS: If the constructive ideas transcended all the criticism there might be something in it. The hon. member for ltoma said that he was not criticising the goou work that the railways were doing ancl then continuetl i11 a strain that suggested the most severely destructive criticism anyone could give forth.

Let us for a moment get out amongst the graziers who complain al>out the stock trains ancl whose own stock-yarcl is held up by a boundary rider's hitch or a Cobb & Co. gate on their own properties. These are the sort of things they provide for themselves hut when it is something that the taxpayer must provide it has to be gilt-edged or nickel­plated. I have worked for a few graziers in my time and I know how generous they can be. They would not give you anything in a lifetime if they thought it meant comfort to you. Very often they deny themselves the best value from their stock because they are too mean to buy a gate and similar facilities.

The Railway Department, with its 26,000-odd employees, is the biggest employer in the State but because one of them makes a slip that is no reason why hon. members opposite should condemn the whole show. I ask the hon. member for Aubigny whether, if he had 1,000 bullocks, he would condemn the whole mob because there were five wasters amongst them~ According to hon. members opposite, if one of the 26,000 railway employees makes a slip the whole system must be condemned. That sort of criticism is not constructive and not even fair.

Let ns consider now the clients of the Rail­way Department. How many are served in the course of a year~ Virtually every person in the State has at least one transaction with the railways in a year and numbers of them have hundreds of transactions. They all add up to millions of transactions hut because one employee makes a slip or because one article is over-carried or is accidentally damaged in transit, then according to hon. members opposite all the railway service must be condemned. That is the attitude of mind of hon. members opposite who pretend they lead such perfect lives themselves and main­tain such a high standard-the whole railway system must he condemned. That is the wrong approach to the subject.

The hon. member for Roma complained that trains did not run on time, Did he ever stop for a moment to think of the detailed work required to he done to work out a train schedule and then consider how many trains were run and multiply the two figures~ If he did he would wonder how the trains ever ran at all. If hon. members opposite were charged with the responsibility of run­ning the trains, then judging by the way in which they manage their own party there would he a lot of collisions.

1194 Supply. [ASSEl\IBLY.l Supply.

Take the Roekhamptou m:ril train which several other hon. members and I use almost every week. On the average it stops at lea_st 60 times between Rockhampton and Bnsbane and passes at least 20 other trains. A lot of time is lost and perhaps wasted in s;opping to pick up and let clown passeng'ers. 1 assengers are not always alert and ready to got out of the train when it is pulled up. ~'heir physical condition very often must be studied and you will always find a courteous conductor or railway official ready to help them. Something has to be done at almost every station the mail trains stop at. Mails and parcels have to be taken on. I have seen 10 or 12 tons of peTishables loaded onto ~12A, _whic~ is t~e Rockhampton mail, yet if rt arn_ves m B~·rsbane after travelling some 400 mrles 10 ~mutes late, according· to hon. members opposrte there has been a national catastrophe.

At the outset I deliberately refrained from eulogising the Minister or the admin­istrative heads. Capable as those gentlemen ~re, I do not believe for one minute that it Is because of their capacity or their ability a!one that we h~ve this efficient railway ser­VIce that 1vo enJoy. I could not pick out 20 men of the 20,000-odd employees to 1vhom I could ~-a~rly give. credit for the organisation and efncwncy of the <lepartment, and for that reason I do not intend to mention any particular person. I find that the humblest I:aillvay employee is just as keen to do his ;Job and just as anxious to see that trains run on time as the Commissioner himself 'l'he most pleasing featme is the spirit that ammates. the employees throughout the rail­way servrce. I do not know what it is that c_auses i~, b:1t many private employers '. onld hke to mstrl their spirit into their , ,l[loy­ees. 'rhat spirit prevails from the lengths­::nen ~nd the lad porter to the highest offi oial m this large organisation. The percentage of no-hopers in this large organisation is much . sm:;ller than I have observed in any orgamsatwn I have had anything to do with. On!y the oth:r day, whilst travelling in a tra~n, ~ n?trced . _a lengthsman standing Le Hlc; Jus prck W<ntl:1g for the train to pass. I rrotlt cd ns the tr-a111 passed that he would Le pretty well a full-blooded aLorigine.

He wa~ a. lengthsman and it was pleasing and gratifymg to see the interest that man was taking i? his job .. As the train went past he gave a ~rgn~l-;-a sign understood by rail­way men-mqmrmg from the driver whether he was running on staff or not and the driver replied, and he then knew 'whether other trains would be likely to follow. Whoever ;vas responsible for instilling that interest mto the employees of the department is to be commended. I think it is something that has grown up with the department and I hope it will remain with it.

lUr. Low: He is taught that for his own safety.

JUr. BURROWS: It is a pity the hon. member was not taught a bit for his own safety. (Laughter.) I think too many of us are apt to judge the railways by the mere

items of receipts and expenditure, and we are unmindful of the very important part they play in the development of the State. They are not the only transport service in the State, but they are called upon to do what I used to describe as the bullocking work. If there is a heavy job to be done or something in which there is not much profit, it is given to the railways. What happens if it is not a heavy and profitable job but some light freight that carries an attractive rate' We find these people who are so eager to criticise the railways then rush to the other forms of transport-motor or air ser­vices. I recently asked a merchant why he did not get his goods by ship and he told me he was quite satisfied with the railways. He said, ' 'In the first place they · are more reliable; secondly, you do not lose one-quarter as much by pilfering." The merchant was at least honest in giving the devil his due.

I think all Governments have failed to recognise the unfair and uneconomic competi­tion with the railways that comes from air and road transport. Air transport offers a limited service; it is only available at cer­tain points and those points are very often dependent on the railways to feed them. Does air transport stand on its own feet~ No, it is dependent on the taxpayers to proYide aerodromes and meteorological advice and other things. Then let us turn to roacl transport. How many motor transport ser­vices would be in operation if they had to build and maintain their own permanent way, the same as the Railway Department has to do~ What contributions have road transport made to the development of the State~

lUr. SP ARKEtS: I rise to a point of order. The Chairman ruled, Mr. Clark, that it · is not permissible to discuss road transport on this vote.

The TElUPORARY CHAIRlUAN (Mr. Clark): Order! I ask the hon. member for Port Curtis to keep to the railway vote.

JUr. DUGGAN: I do not wish to influence you in any way in your decision, Mr. Clark, but I think in fairness to the Chairman of Committees, it is well to remember that he ruled that hon. members would be entitled to refer in passing to the alternative form of transport in competition with the railways. I know that in giving your ruling you wish to be in accord with the Chairman's wishes rather than give your own interpretation, but so far I submit, the hon. member for Port Curtis has not gone beyond the Chairman's ruling.

The TElUPORARY CJIAIRlUAN: Order! As the Chairman has already ruled in that direction, I do not wish to upset his ruling. I advise the hon. member for Port Curtis to refer to the alternative forms of transport only in passing.

ltlr. BURROWS: The hon. member is only trying to use up the time allotted me. He begrudges me the few minutes left to me.

In order to understand this subject still further, I read ·a speech made in the House

Supply. [P :J'iiOVElliBER.J Supply. ll9fi·

of Commons. The points I am discussing now were discussed very freely there, in the same way as I am discussing them now. As I said formerly, what contributions have these transport services made to traffic control, the Police Department and other departments·? 'rhey are competing for traffic ag~inst the railways, but they are held up as examples by hon. members opposite. That is a very unfair and unjust comparison to make. The whole thing appears to be phoney. The Government start by sinking a lot of money in railways in order to develop the country, then they sink much more money in roads which allows road transport to compete with the railways to their detriment. I do not say that our railway system is perfect. That would be foolish, considering the magnitude of the organisation· and the task it has to perform. Do we ever hear hon. members opposite contending that the railways should be run by private enterprise'?

lir. Sparkes: Yes.

Mr. IlURROWS: I would suggest to the hon. member for Aubigny that he endeavour to form a company for the purpose of taking them over. I know what hon. members opposite would do. They are quite prepared to a:cept Sociali~m when it c?mes to running a rail":ay. If prrvate enterpnse were running the railways, road and other forms of com­petitive transport would be taboo. They would not allow these alternative forms of transport to compete with and bite into the earnings of the department.

I was somewhat amused at the complaint of the Leader of the Opposition about the 40-ho~r week. ~ can assure him that my expenence, particularly over the last 12 months, is that because of the amount of overtime paid to railway workers there are not too many of them who have enjoyed the 40-hour week since it was introduced. I deplore that fact, because ·when I voted for the introduction of a 40-hour working week I regarded it as something that would length.en a man's wo~king life. By working excessive hours, particularlY in some of the duties. connected with the "department, those of dn~ers and guards for example, I think the ultimate effect on a man's health will be bad, and I sincerely hope the day will come when overtime in the R·ailway Department especially for the running staff whom I re_gard as ha_ving the most strenuous of jobs, Will be considerably reduced, if not entirely eliminated.

Mr. DEWAR (Chermside) (3.56 p.m.): It can be truthfully said that I probably do Not know much about the railways. I cer­tainly do not know a great deal about the Queensland railways by travelling on them, but I have had a good deal of experience with them in the railing of goods.

At the outset I associate myself with the congratulations offered to the Minister on the zeal and enthusiasm he displays in his job. I agree entirely with those sentiments. The Minister shows a zeal that is very commend­able and proves that he believes in Queens­land and goes about his job in a way that spells good for this State. He has quite a

flair for publicity, and from an advertising point of view that is a good thing, because· every time something is mentioned in print about a thing it advertises it. I think every­thing in this State requires advertisPment and the way the Minister is going about his job spells good for the future of the State.

I agree wholeheartedly that the railway system is the most essential part of the com­munity life of this State. Possibly there are very few other places in the world where a railway system is of greater use than in Queensland, because we have a vast tract of land and it is essential that we have a rail~ way system as efficient as possible.

I think it was the hon. member for Towns­ville who made reference to the fact that very shortly we should have Sunshine trains. The Minister a little while ago said there would be nine of them. It is possible that they will be ultra-modern trains providing every possible railway comfort. I think reference was made to roomettes and I remind the Committee that these roomettes are in existence in the southern States. I was in Adelaide a few months ago and had the privilege and pleasure of travelling in a roomette be~ween J .. delaide and Melbourne. If they are mtro­duced into this State we shall certainly have a railway system that, from the passenger's point of view, will be. equ~l to the world.'s best. During my service hfe I travelled m Australian trains under troop-train conditions. I travelled from San Francisco to Vancou n~r and across Canada and I travelled some 15 000 miles in English trains. I admit that at' that time they were run by private enter­prise and I can vouch for their value at that time. I do not know what the position is ~n England today. I should say that the tnp from Melbourne to Adelaide in a roomette was the best I ever had, and I go so far as to say that this train was the best type of tr~tin I have been in. If we are to adopt somethmg along similar lines in Queensland I commen.d the Minister and his department for what IS

contemplated. The train to which I ref?rrerl is certainly superior to any other on 'Ylnch I have travelled.

The Minister lws ~;uggested that ]J,, ,,·i.li wekome honest criticism, and 1 should likt• to spcllcl fiye or perhaps 10 minutes in some slight criticism of things tJ:at I feel t~la1 he, being a reasonable man, nught feel d1spos~d to investigate. If he does so, I am certam he will find that the criticism is well-founded, and that any steps taken as the .result .of ~t will help in the smooth runnmg of Ins department.

The Leader of the Opposition has referred to hold-ups that occur at the goods recei,~ing depots in Brisbane, and I know personally that such hold-ups are very prevalent. l<'OJ!' some years, when the business with which I am connected was very small, I would load our truck and deliver goods to Roma Street. I did that for many years till two years ago and no-one knows better than I just what delavs are involved in the colossal hold­ups in the receiving of goods at these depots. The Brisbane Chamber of Manufactures took this matter up with the Commissioner ~f Railways some time ago, and I must aclrmit

1196 Supply. [ASSElviBLY.] Supply.

tl"1t. t:,e Commissioner took steps to rectify the t;·oub!e; he was very co-operative, aml tho ;·Jw.mber found that there was a yast impnn-cment. Ho\Yever, there is plenty of room for more improvement, and carriers of goods are at present experiencing colossal hold-ups. These hold-ups are not sporadic; th<·y are a daily occurrence. 'rhe position has become so bad for small businesses that iustead of sending their own truck-drivers to Homa Street station, they prefer to let Bryce Ltd .. take over the worry of doing their for­wardmg for them. The business with which I ;'m connected rails about 40 to 50 packages a week, and pays Bryce Ltd. ls. for each package. 'vVe find that is much better than sending our own trnck-tlrivcr to the railwa \' Yfll'<ls. .

An Opposition ~[ember: That must nwnn a great loss to the r~ilways.

~l"r: DEWAR: . ~t. does, unquestionably. I offer that cnhe1sm to the Minister honestly beli0ving that what I say is correct: I hope he will look iuto tlJe matter i11 au t•ffort to eliminate these hold-ups. If theY :ne taking place in a goods' yard, they must he holding up traffic in the whole "of the HriRbanc area. Of course, if a man has a load of goods for only the one destination he may be able to get· ri•l of it without any delay, but if he has goods for two or thre'e rlifferent destinations, he may be held np indefinitely. It may be that tlJe staff therP is either inefficient or insufficient but the position certainly should be inve;tigatec1.

I think Brunswick Street station should be nscc1 to a greater extent than it is. ·when l'vlr. Wills was the Commissioner for Rail­waYs, as far as I know Brunswick Street was not used for goods traffic. K ow that llfr. :\folouey is the Commissioner, I unclerstanrl that Brunswick Street is used, hut onlY on a fn1l-truek basis. · ·

::ur. Duggan: It is repacked at Roma Street.

:ur. DEWkR: If the Commissioner could possibly decentralise' the reception of goods and overcome the repacking, it wonlrl r0lievc to a ,-ery grent extent the present bottle-neck at Roma Street.

To quote another instance, a man informed me this morning that one of his trucks went to Roma Street recently to load some goods into a railway wagon, and the men on the truck had to unload 200 cases of fruit so that they could get their goods into the truck.

Imagine the terrific hold-up on the part of the firm employing the drivers who had to do this unnecessary work! It is not right that they should be asked to do it and there should be a way of overcoming the problem.

Again I say that Brunswick Street should be used to a greater extent than it is so as to bring about decentralisation in the for­warding of goods. It would be a great advantage and it would help to overcome the nasty bottle-neck at Roma Street. With other forms of transport, shipping and air, there is greater ease in getting rid of goods for transit than there is with the railways,

and the railways will have to streamline their handling of goods to such an extent that organisations of all kinds will tend to use the railway system in preference to others.

There is another complaint that has been passed on to me about which I know little personally. I understand that in some cases there are higher freights on goods than others, and these are used to balance. conces­sional freights. It is suggested that if the Government insist on giving concessional freights Consolidated Revenue and not manu­facturers or the users of the railways should be asked to carry any loss involved in the concessional rates.

There is another matter that is a serious bone of contention and it is in connection with the sending of goods at owner's risk or the Commissioner's risk. I feel that it should not be necessary for an organisation to insure its goods if it sends them at owner's risk. After all is said and done, it should not be a hard job for a person to load a bale of goods, say at Roma Street, into a truck that is then closed and conveyed to, say, Bunda­berg or Roekhampton. Delivery of the goods is taken by the consignee at the other encl. It is not likely that anything serious would happen in transit and it should not be neces­sary to insure the goods when sent at owner's risk. I have in mind the case of a truckload of sugar sacks that were sent to the Milla­quin Mill. They were pulled into Runda­berg or perhaps it was to the W oongarra siding. However, it beeame necessary to burn the grass at this siding. The district superintendent, so it appears in the evidence, gave a positive instruction to the persons involved in the burning of the grass that the truck must be moved before the grass was burnt. For some reason or other the instruc­tion was not rarrierl out, the grass was burnt and so was the truck, with the bags. The bags were worth a considerable amount, some hundreds of pounds I understand. Although the judge definitely ruled that the burning of the truckload of sacks in the circumstances amounted to negligence on the part of the Commissioner's staff the Commissioner was in no way liable, as the goods had been for­warded at owner's risk. If that is correct, and I think it is, it is unfair.

Let us take other forms of transport, for instance lorries carrying goods to Murwil­lumbah. The operator undertakes to take the goods from one point to the other and if they are not delivered I make a claim against him or it is made by the persons to whom the goods are consigned. It should not be necessary for people to insure their goods when they are sent at owner's risk. After all is said and done, there is not a great deal of risk and it is expected that the goods will be delivered to the point to whieh they are consigned, otherwise the Commissioner should accept some share of the risk in respect of them. That is particularly so in view of the fact that it is almost impossible to forward goods at Commissioner's risk. The list of goods that can be forwarded at Commis­sioner's risk is virtually nil. A deal of pub­licity was given in the Press to the case I have mentioned and the gentleman managing

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1197

the iirm involved had numerous inquiries from interested people who said, ''If you win this case we will have a go with our ease.'' I mention this to illustrate my point thnt it is almost impossible to send goods on Commis­sioner's risk. One man said he was at Clon­eurry anu wanted to send a truckload of furniture down to Brisbane. He had to take the whole truck; it had to be one that was locked; he had to supply a lock and post the key to Brisbane, and if on arrival of that truckload of furniture at Brisbane it was found that the lock had been tampered with the Commissioner was relieved of any respon­sibility. It has to be a cut-and -dried case. I ask the Minister to thoroughly investigate this question of owner's risk, as it might create a situation a good deal fairer to all concerned.

I want in summing up to impress on the Minister as much as I can the need for a complete investigation into the handling of goods at Roma Street. If he can in any way alleviate the position existing there today he will renuer a great service to the department am1 manufacturers.

lUr. }lcCATHIE (Haughton) (4.13 p.m.): I do not enter this debate as a keen critic of the department but as a customer and an observer of its operations during the last few years. I have a deep appreciation of what has been done for the development of the State in extending the railways north and west. That could not have been done if there had not been a certain amount of vision. We must all appreciate that the rail­ways hnve played a great part in our develop­ment; therefore we as citizens must be pre­pared to carry any loss sustained by the uepartment.

I ''ant to make reference in passing to the vigour with ·which the ='>Iinister introduced his Estimates. It indicated to us just what knowledge the Minister has of his depart­ment and how keen he is on its various rami­iications. My observations have shown me that he is very capable, most comteou~, and has a very effective control of a complicated department. The ramifications of the Rail­way Department have already been indicated but added to it is the Department of Trans­port which embraces road, air and all other forms of transport, all of which tend to make the Minister a busy man. I want to pay a deep compliment to him for the courtesy extended to me on those occasions on which I have approached him. That courtesy has made his refusals, on occasions when refusals have been given, much easier to bear because of the very temperate way in which he attended to my requests.

A good staff, from the Minister to ·the heads of the various administrative depart­ments, is necessary in a department such as this, and the Minister has that staff. I have not had much to do with the Commissioner but from what I have heard of his vigour I think the department is very well served. My greatest contact with the Railway Depart­ment has been through the general managers in the Northern Division and I should like to compliment those gentlemen on the effici­ency with which they have run it. I refer in

particular to Mr. Hudson, who has now retired, Mr. Moriarty, the present general manager at Roma Street, and the present general manager in the North, Mr. Franklin. On any occasion on which I have hail . to approach those officers I was treated w1th the utmost courtesy; and I feel that if the public were to adopt the courteous approach, they would iind that courtesy begets courtesy. This department handles thousands of people in the year and having some small apprecia­tion of how the public react, I can say­and. say it YeTy der1nitely-that the majority of them are easy to handle. It is only on odd occasions that we get a person who is difficult and when he receives courteous atten­tion it is usually found that in the future he is a very satisiied customer.

Over the years I have used our railways extensively-! was not quite as fortunate as the hon. member for Aubigny, who was able to travel by air and road-and I have been able to observe how the railway officers Teact in various situations; and I am pleased to say that my observations of them in their vnrious spheres of duty convince me that they deserve great praise. I am not going to say that there are not some who do not deserve criti­cism, but I feel that those officers, taking an example from the vigour and efficiency dis­played by the Minister and the senior offi.cers, will pull their weight, and that the next three ;·ears will see very deiinite progress in the railways in Queensland.

I should not be doing my duty to m'· col­leagues and friends in the Railwny Depart­ment if I did not pay a tribute to the tr,men­dous effort made by the running staff <luring the recent war. During those years I was out at all hours conducting my own om:all transport business, which ran in opposition to the railways, and I had an opportunity of observing how these men were working. I pny them the deiinite compliment thnt they stuck very solidly to their jobs. The war ~·ears are past, but we are still faced with the tremendous task of transport in the Rail­way Department. Those officers who com­prise the running staff are still r1oing a marvellous job of work.

Mr. Low: Not only in the running staff.

l\lr. McCATHIE: I agree-all in the department who have the interest of the department at heart are doing a particularly good job.

My friend and colleague, the hon. member for < Townsville, gave very deiinite figures regarding improvements to be made in the rolling-stock, and we who depend so largely on rail transport in the North are very appre­ciative of what the department is doing in that respect. Once again it is an indication of the complete faith the party has in the vision of the Minister in pursuing such a vigorous policy of expansion.

I'Ve quite agree that expansion is necessary. The tendency today is to carry larger loads and in the near future the departm13nt is spending large sums in improvement of the track. Maintenance iigures are a tremendous item, and so they should be, because the liveF:

llGS Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

n: :;o many people depend on the rfliahility of the service. The lllaintenance staJf takes e:uc of our tracks ann are ready at all hours to do their share in making the Railway Department an efficient part of Queensland's transport organisation.

I have discussed the matter of regrading with various officers m the maintenance branch, and I have been reliably informed that much of the hold-up that exists is because of lack of surveyors. As a layman I have tried to observe where improvements could be made. I commend the department very forcefully on the work done in the Northern Division where every effort is being made to give improved transport. Work on the Burdekin bridge is progressing steadily. 'rhe absence of a high-level bridge has been the cause of the major hold-ups in the rail transport in the North. There are very few vears in which the Burdekin River has not ~overed the present low-level railway bridge, and the provision of a bridge 10 feet higher than the known flood level should eliminate such hold-ups. Frequently there are hold­ups at the Haughton River also. This river is coming to the forefront of the picture in rail transport to the North, and I have \·ivid recollections of occasions on which the bridge has been broken. The department has informed me that a steel and concrete struc­ture to cost £120,000 will be provided and in this financial year £6,000 h~s been allo­cated for plant and collection of material.

These are two of the bridges planned uncl now I will list others that are in the planning stage that will hare a very material effect in improving rail transport-

Bubinda Creek Bridge Alligator Creek, south of

Townsville Euri Creek, north of Bowen ..

Cost. £[),000

£30,000 £8,000

The present bridges have been the cause of hold-ups during the wet seasons in the North. 'l'hen we have bridges over the Seymour River, Liverpool, Russell and Bullock Creeks, all in the Northern and Western Divisions, and the approximate cost is £400,000.

During the construction of these bridges, attention is directed to improving the bal­lasting of the track. Two quarries in North Queensland supply heavy ballast for the pur­pose and there is a very definite need for that improvement, in order to give greater comfort to travellers on long-distance trains, and as a frequent traveller to the North I know this improvement 1vill be welcomed very much.

I have listened to several criticisms of the Northern trains, but in. the years I have travelled I have noticed a very definite improvement and feel that the introduction of air-conditioned trains on the northern and north-western lines will bring us nearer to the desired objective. All must appreciate. the fact that that progress cannot be rushed. Plans must be formulated and investigated

thoroughly. We must make sure that every­thing is suitable to the conditions we have to deal with.

Although you gave a ruling as to the Department of Transport, Mr. Farrell, I should like to mention that the Government must carry the cost of our railways and the services that are competing with them and nttempting to take the cream of the business from them must be prepared to pay their proportion of the railway debt, and also some of the cost of the roads they use.

lllr. Sparkes: They pay over £500,000 a year.

lllr. McCATHIE: I quite appreciate that. I have paid some of it myself. I am not saying that it is not fair that we should pay it, and the Railway Department never refuses to consider very seriously any appli­cation for a road-transport license. The hon. member had an indication recently of the way the department was prepared to allow road hauliers to transport from the Downs the wheat crop. I have some know­ledge of occasions in the North when the department has allowed road hauliers to operate. Where the public need makes demands for certain improvements in trans­port and where the Railway Department cannot provide the required transport it has been helpful to the people using the roads. I have seen this throughout North Queensland and as an operator I have competed with the department and can say that I am satisfied with the fair treatment I received.

We heard a rather facetious suggestion made by the hon. member for Lockyer when he said that the department should ensure having mechanics to look af.ter the di.esel trains it is proposed to mtrocluce mto Queensland. His remark was a retiection, 1 think, on the intelligence of the officers con­cerned because I know none of them would consider introducing such an improvement to Queensland if there were not competent staff to deal with repairs.

lllr. Chalk: It was on the equipment side.

lllr. llicCATHIE: The workshops are doing a particularly sound job and as one who has had experience of costs outside rail­way workshops I feel sure that railway costs compare very favourably with charges made outside in my short time as a transport operator. I have paid quite considerable sums for maintenance ancl I feel sure that the Railway Department can compete with any cost submitted by outside garages.

The Railway Department has a sugges­tion board on which employees are permitted to make suggestions for the improvement of the system. Many suggestions have been adopted and I feel that I should suggest to the Minister, after hearing some very con­structive and some carping criticism dur­ing the debate, that it might be a good thing to open the suggestion board or box to the public. Having travelled with many people I have hearcl various suggestions made that

Supply. [9 Xon~MBER.] Supply. 1199

in my lnunblC' opininn 1nig~1t ba,Te inlifi'U\·e~1 tl1P l'lP~nin~r of the departnwnt. 1 h:·.ve ;!skt>'1 t!Ic pc•ople who nuJ.de the sn~u.~(·stion3 to send th··m forwar;J to tl1c department, fc:elinQ' sure that tlwr woul•l rcec:ive verv c·ourt~uus aur1 sympati.,etic consider:1tion. '1 ~.~nke this sll :;gestiru h1 an seriousness he('ause uone of us sa: that the department is perfect. I woul•l not suggest that there are not many impro,·ements ·that couW be made but 1 say e•nphaticall~· that the gre~1t n1a.iorih- of the employees in the deparLnent :~n· conscious of !lwir obligations to it and know "·hat is bt>in" done to improve their wor1<iHg conditiom·. I ~:oulc1 quote many instane• s as to !tow conditions in the depart· 'l'Plll han• improved, particularly in the 1\orth. We should he slighting the emplo:yw·s if \\'C did not giw them credit for the job t lle:v :<re doing.

llir. WOOD (North Toowoomba) ( 4.29 p.m.) : Sinee 1 spoke on this Vote the other nig:1t I ha,·e heard many speeches from both sides of the l'hamher and I should s:1v that in the majorit:v of them the approach 'to the (jLlestion has hecn to~erant and that some helpful suggestions hm·e been made to the i\fiuister in the form of criticism. I know that with his willingness to accept at all times any reasonable representations he will thoroughly examine all these proposals.

In considering such a large undertaking as a Railway Department we have three view· points to take into consideration. The first is the welfare and the comfort of the travel­ling public, the second is the speedy and safe transport of goods and livestock, and the third is the welfare of the employees. With· out that third viewpoint, justice cannot be none to the other two. Where we have a staff of 26,000 employees, unless their welfare is catered for and their conditions are reason· able, so that they are contented iJ:I their jobs, we cannot have an efficient Railway Depart­ment. I believe that the general state of satisfaction among railway employees is due in no small measure to the great interest that is shown in them by the Minister for Transport. I do not say that all members of the staff are satisfied; I believe that many of them have reasonable grievances. I snp· pose few members in this Chamber have more occasion to bring problems affecting railway men to the Minister than I. Not a week passes in which I do not need to bring before his notice some problems-sometimes I have 12 or more a week-that have been brought before me on behalf of railway men, and I think the surest indication that the men themselves recognise the justice of the Minis­ter is that I can say truthfully that in not one case since I have heEm elected to this Chamber has any man on whose behalf I have made representations to the Minister com· plained because he has not been successful.

An Opposition Member: Probably because they knew they were n1ade properly in the first place.

~Ir. WOOD: I should not say that. All those on whose behalf I made representations

kue\\· that their cases were considered and tlwt the ans,yers given were based on justice. It may happen sometimes that the decisions are wrong, hut never has any request that affected the welfare of any employee been refused without full consideration being given to it. As I say, I have not had one criticism from any of the. very many who have sought my help when a case has been unsuccessful. I think that is a tribute to the impartial way in which the Minister has discharged his <1uties. I have invariably told every railway man who has come to me on matters con· nected with transfer or promotion that unless he had the necessary qualifications and seniority, he was wasting his time in seeking my support.

ilir. Sparkes: He should not have to come to you at all.

llir. WOOD: Never mind what the llon. member for Aubigny has to say. He has made his speech in his own way. \Vhether it was satisfactory or not is not a matter for me to decide; I do not intend to discuss it. Every man has the Tight to go to his member. That is the sovereign right of every constituent. It will be a sad day for ns when anybody takes from a citizen, whether his case is good or bad, his sovereign right to go to his member and to ask him to present a case for him. I do not care whether a citizen's case is good or not, he has every right to come to me and I will not refuse to hear him. I will always put his views before the correct authority, regard­less of how many men go to the hon. mem­her for Aubigny. I am not interested in that.

I am giving these examples, Mr. Farrell, to show that the great majol'ity of employees in the Queensland Railway Department know that they can have every confidence in the impartiality of the Minister, and that he is observing the policy laid down by the depart­ment at the request of the unions to ensure that people are appointed on transfer or on promotion under certain conditions. Never since I have been a member of this Chamber has he deviated from that policy and I give him m·edit for that.

I desire to refer to the electrification of the snlmrban railwavR of Brisbane, which has been received ":ith mixed feelings by hon. members opposite. I can undeTstand that m~tropolit:1n members can see virt~e in it while country members feel that therr areas are being neglected. I have heard it saicl Lluring election campaigns and in this Chamber that the city workers ride in luxury on the bneks of the countrv workers-a stupia statement to make. In a;;.y big admin. istration, surh ns that nssociatecl with trans· rur!, the vie1Ypoint must be, '' \Vhat benefit will be derived bv the whole of the State~" and so the electrification of the suburban railways of Brisbane, being a major under· taking, must be viewed from the angle of its benefit to the State as a whole. It will not onlv confer n benefit on Brisbane. I suppose" there is not an hon. member in this

1200 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

C'hamber who has not derived some benefit from the eleetrifica tion of the railways in Sydney. Xot only diu it confer a benefit on the people in the Sydney suburbs but every time a person went from Queensland to Sydney for the purpose of business or on holidays with his family he received a direct benefit from the electrification of the Sydney railways. Every man and w~man who comes to Brisbane, whether on holidays or for any other pnrpose, llerives some benefit from the improvements carried out in Brisbane and suburbs. 'l'he people of Toowoomba and beyond will feel the benefit of the electrifi­cation of the Brisbane suburban railways. It is not something that will benefit only the Brisbane suburban dweller, bringing him to work and to the pictures and taking him home each evening; it is something that will benefit the whole of Queensland.

Hon. members opposite had a good deal to say a bout providing increased facilities at the Roma Street railway goods shed. That shed is used mainly to serve country areas allll I ran understand the desire of hon. members to push the case,, as they do effect­ively, for increased facilities for the hand­ling of goods at Roma Street. That· does not affect only the people of Brisbane, not would the electrification of the Brisbane suhmban railways benefit only them. It will lee a benefit to the thousands of people who will come to Brisbane only for holidays.

'l'he Minister has outlined an ambitious scheme for the improvement and develop­ment of the railway system. At the moment the Beyer-Garratt engines are coming into use and the plans of a few years ago are taking prncti~nl 'hape. It is useless for hon. members opposite to say that the rail­way system is being developed only in the interests of the people of Brisbane and that at the same time the country is being neglected.

(Time expired.)

Mr. DECKER (Sandgate) (4.38 p.m.): At the outset I desire to join with every other hon. member in congratulating the Minister on the broad vision he has shown in his handling of tbe Railwav Department. \','c a11 lmcnv that for a long ··time-the rail­•:;.;ys tended to become more or less out of date.

The:· "·ould he out of date altogether now if we did not have an active :\Iinister with t)·e outlook he has, anc1 with the determina­tion he has shown to bring them up to date. Gl'eat credit must be g·i,·cn to him for the el!ergv lw has introduced into the discharge of his duties. In fact, no such energy has Leen shown over the last 25 vears. I have been travelling on the Sandga:te line for 43 years and it is very difficult to see what improvement has taken place in that part of the system in that time. In fact, I will go so far as to say that the system is no different today from what it was 43 years ago. I am glad to know that \VC have in the Minister a young man who is active and progressive in his outlook and determined to make the raihYays something for the people of Queens­land to be proud of. Like the Minister, it is

my opinion that the railways will play a still greater part in the development of the State, if they can be modernised, than they have already done.

I do not intend to offer any derogatory niticism but will devote my time to suggest­ing where some improvements could be made and perhaps where some difficulties exist. 'l'h,~ practical maintenance of our railways is absolutely antiquated. I am sure the Minis· ter will concur in that. If we travel to other States we do not see the conditions applying to maintenance work here applying to mnintenance work there. Here we see our maintenance men using push- or pump-trolleys and the old pick and shovel. Apparently nothing has been done to equip our main­tenance men with modern utensils to carry out their work expeditiously and efficiently. Our tracks are an important part of th8 system. I suggest that our maintenance men be equipped with modern appliances such as mechanical ditchers, bulldozers, motorised trolleys and power sprays for weed-killing. We see them employed in that work in other States. To-day there are modern wcedicides on the market and our tracks can be cleaned and kept free of weeds by their use in power sprays. We have examples in our agricul­tural industries of the effective work of these wccdicides used in that way. The Minister must look to other States for the modernisa­tion of our nmintenance work, not only for the purpose of benefiting the maintenance men but in enabling them to carry on their work more efficiently, less costly, and obtain better Tesults.

Another matter that has caused me some concern for many years is our railway e"oss­ings. \Ve have a great number of them. Some of these crossings are protected with gates in charge of gatekeepers or the station staff. 'J'o my mincl the most dangerous of all of that type of crossing is the open crossing. We have, through the agency of the wire­less and other means, gone to a great deal of trouble to engage in a road-safety pro­gramme under the aegis of the Road Safety Council, of which the :'viinister is chairman. This body is doing invaluable work and I nrge the Government to pa~· ~ome attention to these death-traps, partic"'"rly t)l,- OJWJ'

crossings, as 3·ear by year 111 attempt has been made to overcome the existing de1n g-erons conditions.

Very few months elapse in which you do not pick up a paper and read of deaths at this or that crossing and of accidents that have maimed a number of people.

ll'Ir. F. E. Roberts: There is not the same percentage as on the roads.

Mr. DECKER: The percentage is pretty high; they are classed as road accidents. When we look at the figures over a period of vears we see that they represent an alarming number of deaths and severe injuries. It is about time the Government laid down a solid policy in regard to open crossings. Even with our present budgetary position we should be able to say that we are going to tackle this problem in a small way year by year and then we should reach our objective in the end.

Supply. [9 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1201

En"' though we determined to eliminate only one dangerous leYel crossing a year, we should be doing something to attain our objective of at some time eliminating all these crossings; and if we could make it two or three a vear for the next ten vears-and that is within mu power-we sho.uld have eliminated 30 by the end of that period.

One particularly dangerous crossing is situated in Palm Avenue, Sandgate. Having a notiPe or sign there is not sufficient warn­ing even to a careful motorist, although the dPIHtrtment contends that it should obviate an;- dangerous collision. We have had a 1mmber of fatal accidents at this crossing and man~- people have been injured nnd many

otheTs have had hairhreadth escapes. There is a ''Stop'' notice, but the peculiar thing about it is that it creates the greatest menace. That seems a strange thing to say, but it is trnP, because the careful motorist, seeing the ''Stop'' sign, naturally obeys and he looks to the right where he has a clear view for about 60 yards ahead-the rest of the line being obscured by houses, trees and a fence, and he sees that the line is clear, and then l•e 1ooks to the loft where he sees that the N:mdgate railway station is clear, and he then gets into low gear and moves on and as he <loos so he finds that the train has silently stolen round and before he is across an aceident has occurred. Ninety-nine per cent. of the accidents there have happened after the driver has pulled up and viewed the line, und just as he moved forward the train ~as come round the bend. It has been sard, "\Vhy have they not heard the train at such a short distance~'' but down there we have strong south-easterly winds most of the sum­mer season, and with the noise of the car and the strong winds it is difficult for anyone to hear a bit of a whistle and the train steals on him almost silently, and having the car in low gear he has not time to cross the line. As a result of reports I have made to the department, officers have gone down and they have regarded the ''Stop'' sign as sufficient, whereas it is a positive danger and should be c·liminated. Even if we had modern equip­ment, such as waving arms and a signal nt night, with lights on, which costs £300, it would be much better than having orB fntal accident or haYing one person maime<l :for life.

Residents in the vicinity live in a constant state of nerves. Some have had to move to other parts because of the nervous break­downs caused by the knowledge of the danger of that level crossing. They hear a motor­car or truck and they hear a train about the same time. They shudder in fear of a repeti­tion of what has happened before-a fatal accident. The hazards of level crossings must be patent to every hon. member and the sooner the Minister adopts a programme for their gradual elimination, the better. If he does this he will, in conjunction with the other great work he is doing in improving the rolling stock and general conditions of the department, he doing a mighty good thing.

3Ir. F. E. ROBERTS (Nundah) (4.54 p.m.) : I associate myself with the remarks made by virtually each and every hon. member

on either side of the Committee who has spoken on this Yote and referred in very eulogistic terms to the work of the present Minister for Transport. It is well recognised, not only in Queensland but in other countries, that the quickest way of cutting off th~ head politically of any politician is to hand hrm the portfolio of transport. The experience of the past has been that on virtually all occasions, for some reason or another, Ministers for Transport have become unpopular with the ordinary citizens of the State.

It is very pleasing indeed, t~erefore, ~o know that after having held th1s portfoho for a little over three years the Minister can re<·eiv;c the commendatorv remarks that have I>Ct'll used of him on this occasion and that he has earned the very high respect and esteem of the public of Queensland at large. r tl1 ink we all recognise and a ppreeiate the enthusiasm, the initiative, and the drive with >Yhich the ::\finister lms npproaehed his WOI'k in the administration of the railwa;vs of this Sbte nnd the \Yonderful steps he is ma_king tow:t rds modernising that branch of our tr:1 nRp<,rt s.vstem.

r ,]wuld like to refer to a comment made lJy tho hon. member for Lockyer the day before vestenlav. He referred to the first­class ac(·ommodrrtion of our Queensland rail­waYs and suggested that something better might be provided and he particular.ly li:r:ked his remarks with people trayellmg wto CiueeHsland from other States. I do not l>clie•·e that we should giYe any greater preference or any preference wh~tever to. a1;y partienlar section of the travellmg puhhc lll this State. It is all Yery well to refer, as some hon. members have done, to the very fine tTains provided on particular lines in southern States and in other parts of the \Yorld. Mention was made by an hon. mem­ber of the Spirit of Progress. The test of any transport syotem is the overall one. of what it provides for everybody who desues to use that form of transport and so far as I am coneerned I do not want to sec the (]~v \Yhen w0 in Queensland adopt the same policy that has been adopted in other States of ,\ nstralia and provide something ''ant of the box'' on particular lines and hold it up a' something of which >ve can be proud and at the same time leave the rest of the State to o-o l1:mg, as it were. I say that we should not" Le concerned primarily with the class of aeeommodation that we provide for the few >Yho might come into this State as tourists or on business from other parts of this Com­monwealth. The fundamental consideration -of which an hon. member representing a westeTn electorate should be aware-is the need to provide the best possible accommo­dation for all of those who are going to use the Tailways.

I appreciate, as did the hon. member for North Toowoombal the approaeh made by hon. members opposite to this debate and I might say that l listened with great inter­est to the speech delivered by the hon. mem­lwr for Chermside this afternoon. It was 4uite a logical and constructive speech and it is the type of speech we want to hear in

1202 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

this Committee. Despite that, one hon. mem­ber spoke rather sareasticallv of the fuet that we still haYe a 3ft. 6i'i1s. gauge in Queensland, rdening of course to tile wider gauges in the other States of Australia.

_I can see no benefit whatever that one Width of gauge offers to a railway service over another, apart from the fact that in c.ommon with other hon. member;;, I sh~uld llke to see one uniform gauge for the whole of the Commonwealth; but whether it is a gauge of 3 ft. 6 in., 4 ft. 8~ in. or 5 ft. 3 in. does .not, so far as I can learn, make one iota of difference. There is plenty of literature in the Parlia~entary Library about the rail­way system m South Africa which has a 3 ft. 6 in .. gauge a:nd a system of railway .transportatiOn that IS second to none in the world. However, South Africa has not by any means the milage that we have here and se~ondly-and this is the ove.r-riding con'sider­atwn-for years South Afnca exploited the use of cheap coloured labour in the construc­tion of its railways, with the result that its permanent way is more heavily constructed than ours, its bridges are very much stronger and it has been able to benefit from the fact that the cost of its labour has been indeed cheap in comparison with ours. The point is however, that South Africa has a 3 ft. 6 in: gauge and a wonderful railway system, so that I do not see any reason why we, with our 3 ft. 6 in. gauge, should not in time have a railway system quite as good as, or even better than, that provided by any other gauge.

I come back again to the fact that whilst it is all right for Victoria to speak of its Spirit of Progress and for other States to speak of particular railway facilities that they provide for their people, some two years ago a very estimable gentleman of Brisbane-· I refer to Mr. McDonald of the Brisbane ''Telegraph' '-went to the United States of America, where he travelled extensively. When he came back to Queensland, he was not a ''knocker.'' He came out openly and in his newspaper, and in a number of public addresses, he said that we had nothing to be ashamed of, even in our much-maligned Queensland railway system. He did say that on some United States lines there were trains of which we in Queensland had never dreamed, but he pointed out that once you got off the main lines and on to those lines that were providing transport for the worth­while people and for the products of industry and commerce, they were no better than we had in Queensland. We should take notice of gentlemen like that. Of course, I do not sug­gest that we should beeome complacent and self-satisfied, and say that our railway system is perfect and that there is nothing more for us to do; there is always room for improve­ment and constructive criticism.

In my opinion, the hon. member for Coor­paroo, who is the Deputy Leader of the Oppo­sition, in his contribution to this debate, adopted the narrow outlook of a metropolitan member of Parliament. He dealt with the rai_lways only as they affected the city of Bnsbane and confined his remarks to the electrification of the railways, to the need

for an underground service and for cross­river facilities linking the north and south railway systems. We should endeavour to get away from the parochial outlook, to view the matter not from the viewpoint of our own district alone but, once having been elected to Parliament, from that of the State as a whole.

While I respect the decision that has been made with regard to electrification and respect the remarks made by the hon. mem­ber for East Toowoomba, I feel that indeed it is a very important step. It will cost the State some millions of pounds. As one who has travelled over a great part of the State, and one who travels six davs a week on a suburban line from Nundah to Brisbane, I feel that we should at least ask ourselves many questions before this vast amount of money is spent on the electrification of the railways .in Brisbane. I know that the vast majority of my electors travel in trains and, like myself, they would like that little extra speed, that little extra comfort to be got from the electric train, but we get into work all right and home again, and if we want to come into town at night we can do it in a reasonable time and with reasonable com­fort.

Let us now take the line from Brisbane west. From Brisbane to Toowoomba we have a pretty good train, and then from Toowoomba west for, say, 200 miles, the line seems to get lighter and the trains go slower, and then between Oharleville and Ounna­mulla the line feels like a ribbon of steel and the train service there is by no means com­parable with that between Brisbane and Toowoomba.

lUr. Sparkes: Hear, hear!

Jlir. F. E. ROBERTS: It is providing an excellent service. I hope the hon. mem­ber for Aubigny will not endeavour to place a construction on my words that I do not intend. If we have £10,000,000 or £20,000,000 to spend on our railways, in addi­tion to the provision already made for the new Garratts and deisel-electric locomotives, we should first of all spend some of it on improving the existing lines, in making them a little better than they are Il0\1".

Opposition ]}!embers: Hear, hear!

JUr. F. E. ROBERTS: I have already commemled what we have done, but before we provide a luxurious service for tourists, along the coast or between Toowoomba and Brisbane, we should endeavour to provide the same type of transport that is available in some parts of the State today for the travel­ling public and for the conveyance of goods on the lines between Brisbane and Ounna­mulla, Rockhampton \Vest, and out to Mt. Isa. Those sections are entitled to the same standard of service as is provided on some other sections of the railway line.

Those are questions to which we might well pay some regard. We should not adopt the attitude adopted by the honourable member for Coorparoo, who confined his remarks on this very important vote to the electrification of the Brisbane railways, the provision of

&up ply. [!) X:>"\'EMBER.} Supply. 1203

underground raihn1ys, and a bridge across the Brisbane River for the railway system within the metropolitan area.

I have one or two other matters I should like to mention. The first is in connection with the carriage of goods and parcels on our railways. I listened with interest to the hon. member for Chermside on this subject. I know from the Minister's interjection while he was speaking that he is well aware of the hold-up at the Roma Street goods yards. I suggest that some consideration might well be given of the establishment of a parcels and goods deliYery service by the department itself. As you move round Brisbane you see motor conveyances and vans on which are printed '' Trans·Australian Airlines,'' '' Aus­tralian National Airways" and the names of other companies engaged in transport picking up parcels and goods and delivering them. I have often wondered why that service cannot be given by our railways. It would provide a service for the public that is not now given and it would pay, which should be considered in assessing the value of any ser­vice provided by the department.

l'fr. Dewar: That was done in the Old Country.

Jir. F. E. ROBERTS: I do not know whether it was done in the Old Country or not, but it is something we could adopt in Queensland.

The hon. member for Mundingburra made his usual type of address on this vote and endeavoured to give the impression that he has been fighting hard for the granting of staggered leave to the employees in the rail­way workshops. The hon. member undoubtedly knows that ever since I have been a member of this Parliament I have made numerous requests and approaches to the Minister, as well as the department, on this important matter. Lest the wrong impression be gath­ered from what the hon. member for Mun­dingburra said, I might mention that in addititm to making such requests on behalf of the employees of the Northgate railway workshops, which are in my electorate, I have actively associated myself with similar requests from the employees in the Towns­ville, Rockhampton, Ipswich and Toowoomba workshops. I have been OR a number of deputations to the Minister on the matter. I have very carefully read and digested the replies of the hon. Minister to those requests but I still feel that despite the economics of the position that would arise if staggered leave was granted there are other overriding conditions that should receive due considera­tion.

First of all, in addition to those points mentioned by the hon. members for Munding­hurra, namely, the difficulty that employees have in taking adYantage of the passes they r1rceive on the Queensland railways during their annual leave, and the difficulties of h·avelling on our railways during that very congested periou including Christmas and J:\ cw Year, we should remember that that is

the reriod when-as the hon. member for Chennsido interjected when the hon. member for Mundingburra was speaking-most other employees in other industries also receive their annual leave; and if granted it would be not only a staggering of the leave of the railway employees in workshops but also a staggering, as it were, of the travelling population of this State. In addition to that it would enable those employees who giYe this State such wonderfnl service dming a period of 11 months and one week in each year, an oppor­tunity of obtaining accommorlation at sea­side resorts and holiday places at rentals that tlwy could afford to pay. People on ordinary tnlgE'Y cannot afford to pay the reutals they are aske-1 to pay at that period, if they want to take their families for a holiday to a sea­sirlc or any other pleasure resort. Many of them haYe young children still going to schooL If those employees are all restricted to the Christmas vacation, they cannot get acccmmodation at seaside or mountain resorts and cannot travel in comfort with their wives and families, therefore not only they but their wiYes and children are in effect deprived of ::my >Yorth-while holiday. Bearing in mind and appreciating thp '"ay in "·hich the Minis· trr and the department have IJ'One into this qn~stiou, and the economics that must be considered, nevertheless I think that some further consideration might well be given to this question of allowing stagtrerer1 leaYe to our employees in the various railway work­shops.

I woulil like to mention the wonderful impro>·ements that have been made in the N orthgate railway workshops-I ran only speak for Northgate on this point-since the present Minister has held his portfolio. Dur­ing the la,gt 12 or 1;) months thousands and thousands of pounds' worth of new modern machinery has been put into those workshops and its modernisation is an advantage not onlv to our railwav administration but also to the employees who are workhtg there.

(Time expired.)

lUr. KERR (Sherwood) (5.19 p.m.): It >Yas not my intention to speak on this Vote, for the simple reason that so many able speakers on my side of the Committee have covered the situation so efficientlv. Tt would have been right for me not to make any con­tribution, because I have been spPaking on railway Estimates for the last eight years.

~Ir. Jesson: Do not make the same speech again.

~Ir. KERR: I will make something totnll~· c1ifferent-·something that will stir the hon. member up, too. (Laughter.)

As I have said, it was not my intention to speak on thi1;; vote but like the hon. member for Mundingburra I could not resist the opportunity especially in view of the fact that I was requested to, and consequently I ha\·e risen to make a few comments in regard to the railway accounts. Some years ago I raised the matter by way of questions and also when speaking on the accounts of the railway refreshment rooms and now I congratulate the Minister on the results

1204 S·upply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

achieved for the year 1949-50 in that this account now shows a profit of £16,935, as against a loss of £6,472 for the pre•ceding year. That is a wonder:t;ul performance. I know the Minister welcomes constructive suggestions. He examines them very closely and I am pleased to see that, following up my suggestions, he has acted on them with this remarkable result. Again I congratulate the hon. gentleman.

In all sincerity I must say that the present Minister for Transport is doing a better job than his predecessor in the time I have been in this Parliament. He has ordered rolling-stock and power not only locally but interstate and overseas. That is demonstrated in the amount of loan money provided, ~.pproximately five million pounds this year, for this equipment. I understand that this e<1uipment and rolling-stock will come forward tlJis year. I sincerely hope so. It will be of great assistance, not only in providing the means to carry the traffic now available to the railway but probably also in inducing traffic now carried by road to return to the department. \Vhen this rolling-stock and J;Owcr are available the railways should h~ :1 hle to handle the whole of the traffic avail­able.

lir. Jesson: You are making a very refreshing speech.

lU:r. KERR: I have handed out a few bouquets and I do not want to take them b~ck. The present Minister has the good w1Jl of the employees of the Queensland rail­way system.

Government Members: Hear, hear!

. )Ir. KER_R:. That is very refreshing mcleed and 1t 1s very pleasing for me to be able to say it. I hope it will be pleasing to everybody and in this I am not saying some­th~ng merely for the sake of saying some­thmg. I have been able to assess this feel­ing from my mail and by personal contact.

From the report of the Committee we fin<l that some new railways have been built in this State. I have a new railway in my electorate. (Laughter.) I thank the Minister for it. It is not yet completed but I under­stand it has been used partially and will h<' of great benefit in that district.

Reverting to the finances of the depart­ment, I would remark that hon. members who have spoken pointed out that last year the railway deficit was £1,539,306, to which must he added £802,900 taken from the Post-war Reconstruction and Development Trust Fund, which is really a reserve of profits earned by the Railway Department in times of plenty. The reserve was built up to £10,000,000 and that is whPre the sum of £800,~00 came from and it is right and proper that 1t should go back whither it came. T l1ave no quarrel with that. ' Last year £802,900 was taken from that fund, >Yl:ick as I say, originally amounted to roughly £10,000,000. The Railway Department has ha~ _5? per cent. but other governmental act1v1t1es have had a slice of that reserve also.

H u <l we talwn what reserve, was still there after 30 June, 1900, ;md >Yhat reaily he longs to the Railway Dep,tTtmcnt, and credite<l the r:tilwa;· a<'COuut with that sum, there would nut hCJYC been a deficit this year. The Treas­urer took a certain amount last year and he took less out of the Post-war Reconstruction and Development Fund for the railway acr·ount than he has taken eYen in the last Jhe years. IIe tould have oiJYiated a deficit of some £767,000 odd by utilising the reserYe. That is what reserves are created for-to meet the noccb of lean tinH's.

1\Ir. Burrows : for the LTtLue 'I

·without consideration

2Ur. KERR: He would still have £J,OIJO,OOO left for the future years.

It yyas pointed out in answer to a que,;tion Lv the hon. member for Cooroora that over­time paid during last year was £1,280,000, R

sum representing approximately 11 per cent. of the aggregate railway wages. I am not saying that the remarkable iTJ•ot('ase is due to the operation of the 40-hour working W('ek but there is some analogy between the t\vo, beeause we all know that a 40-hour working week has been responsible for a trememlous increase in wages and the total expenditure of the State. I say frankly that I haye grave doubts about the introduction of the 40-hour working week and the timing of it.

:ilir. Jesson: You do not believe in it.

:ilir. KERR: I believe its introduction was untimely. I believe in it, but ,you can­not haYe it in operation when there are such lags in the production of thousands and thousands of things we need today. It i;; only common sense to say that ·with a f<•>v mo~e hours' work we could overtake the lflg consiclera hly.

:ilir. Jesson: Why did you vote for it?

Mr. KERR: I voted for it and I might have my regrets. I repeat that its introduc­tion was untimely. M any other things have :Jggravated the position. \Ve have post-war difficulties to oyercome and all sort,; of things. The migration into the State and the increase in population have helped to keep production inadequate and insufficic>nt to meet the needs of the people.

Fifty per cent. of the Post-war l~<·COB­struction and Development 'J'rPst Fund treated out of the profits of the raihYa;vs k'" lwen pnt h:wk into the railway ;;ccount and I sa~· agnin emphatically that there w:1s no need to show a d<:•ficit this year, because there was a reserYe to draw upon. Unfortun­ately it comes to this: that \he Goyernment are "making a Cin(lerella of the :VIinister for Transport, who has one of the most r1ifficult. portfolios in the State.

I have heard it said in thjs Chambet' that the time has arrived when a great numl>pr of our railways should at lenct hreak square. I know that some make profits. The hon. mrml•er for :\It. Col't-thh askc·I a questi(in of the ::\Iinister for Transport to inform the IIou~e of t1H: rnihYuy-s tl1at were paying. of

Supply. [9 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1205

the. nun-paying railways, and the railways wlnf'h he thought were developmental rail­ways, and 1 hope that hon. gentleman will giw this Committee all those details so that we slwll be able to see for omselves the pay­ing and the non-paying lines. I have always said that the railway system of Queensland is its greatest developmental factor, and it will continue to be so for many years. I have ::o crcand 'vith the subsidising of railway freights to assist such ventures as Blair .\tbol and Mt. Isa while they are in their crawliug stages, ns it were, imd until they arr self-supporting.

~Ir. Burrows: You cannot say that B1~1ir Athol is not self-supporting.

Mr. KER-R: The companies have made a profit. The railways in the Central Division are being carried by those in the Southern and Northern Divisions, and Blair Athol coal is carried over the Central Division.

~Ir. Burrows: Do you not think they could pay more in freights and less in dividends~

JIIr. KERR: There may be something in that suggestion. I do not want to dodge that issu~, nor do I want to dodge the issue of the subs1dy that Mt. Isa Mines Ltd. receives in the low price it pays for coke from the State Coke \Vorks at Bowen. As I say, when these enterprises are in their infancy they are entitled to encouragement by way of subsidies on railway freights and in any other way in which the Government can help them. However, once they are established they should stand on their own feet and other sections of the community should not be expected to carry them.

The hon. member for Bundaberg, in the preamble to his speech on the Budget, said that every member on the Government side of the Committee understood the Budget.

1Ur. Walsh: And that is true, too.

lUr. KERR: The hon. member says it is true. What a lot of wonders they are! I will bet that the hon. member does not understand the Budget from end to end. I am, a quali­fied accountant----

Mr. JUoore : Hear, hear!

liir. KERR: The hon. gentleman sup­ports my contention that we do not under­stand the Budget. I had to put a wet towel over my head----

A G~rvernment Jllember: Why did you take it off~

Jllr. KERR: One has to take it off sooner or later.

The hon. member for Port Curtis also is an accountant, and I will say that he is an honest man and will agree with what I am saying.

The CHAIRliiAN: Order!

~Ir. KERR: The hon. member for Nundah said that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition adopted a parochial attitude. However, the hon. member for Nundah could

not have heard the many speeches made by the hon. member for Coorparoo in this Chamber, in which he has advocated time and time again the building of various railway lines. If the hon. member is not present to hear what the hon. member for Coorparoo says about these things, he is :aot doing his duty.

I should now like to say something about the electrification of the suburban railways. I brought up the matter in this Chamber some years ago and I gave pretty substantial reasons why the scheme should be imple­mented. I pointed out that it was much more economic to have electric trains than steam-driven vehicles on the short suburban lines and I am sure the Commissioner for Railways will bear me out in that. I instanced the Brisbane Tramway system and another example is the railways themselves. I am not here to press for the electrification of the suburban railways here and now-­there are other railways requiring attention-­but I want to tell the Minister that I see no reason why the improvement in existing lines and the construction of new ones should not go hand in hand with the electrification of the suburban railways. I suggest to thy Premier and his Cabinet that they send the Minister for Transport overseas to get the rails we urgently need. That is our trouble, shortage of rails. We want those rails and we want them now, particularly for the haul­age of coal--I am not going to say from Callide but perhaps I should. Let the Cab­inet send him overseas to get these rails ; let them do it without delay.

For the past eight years I have listened until I am tired of listening to the comments and criticism about freight adjustments and that kind of thing but I put it to the Minis­ter now that he test the feeling of the House on the question of whether we should have a deficit or should break square. Let us take the vote without prejudice, free of party loyalties. Let us divorce ourselves from party affiliations and vote according to our con­sciences.

liir. Turner: Come over here.

Mr. KERR: I would not go over there if you carried me. (Laughter.) If we want to be sincere and if we want to decide whether the Government, regardless of poli­tical colour, should balance this Budget or should have a deficit in time of plenty, let us decide it now. Here we are in need, in a time of plenty, so far as money is concerned.

I ask the Minister to put the question to the vote of the whole House on non-party lines and see what the result will be. Then you would get the true test of where the interests of honourable members lie in respect of the treatment of the State as a whole,

Mr. J. R. TAYLOR (Balonne) (5.40 p.m.): I am not going to be like members of the Opposition and say that the railways are all that can be desired. I have heard those remarks ever since this debate began. On each occasion on which an hon. member opposite

1206 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

has risen he has contended that the railwavs have ueen run efficiently, and then immediately proceeded to pull them to pieces. I am nut going to say tlrat the railways are all that can l>e desired but I do say, and rightly so, that they are doing a particularly good job. I suggest to those hon. members who con­demn our railwayis ,that they visit other States. I have tnwelled extensively in everv State of Australia. I say confidentlv that ::~ii hon. member like the hon. member for Aubigny has the least idea of railways, not only in this State, but in any other State, as he does not use them. When he travels he does so by either a motor-car or aeroplane. How then does he know about the railways in this or any other State~ All he knows about tltem is that he puts his bullocks on them and they are carried to their destination at :1 _cheap rate, a mte that compares favournhly mth the rates in other States.

·when we compare our railwavs -11ith other systems in the Commonwealth, we must admit that they are not doing such a bad job. \Ye have heard much of the loss incurrcJ iu running the railways but our railway fig urcs t·ompare more than favourably with any other system in the Commonwealth. \Ve must take into consideration the distances between our cities and towns and the length of our rail­ways compared with other States. That is what ~mpels me to say that they are doing a good Job. Of course, there are some matters that can be rectified.

I believe that the railways are necessary to open up our country, and if the construction ?f a lin_e has that for its 'object it should, 1f possible, be built. I have on other oecasions advocated the construction of a rail­way between Charleville and Blackall. It is necessary and when it is built-it eventually will be built-it will be of great benefit not only to the inland but to the whole State. The wealth of the State is derived from the inland areas and that is where facilities should be. In time of drought there is diffi­culty in shifting stock from one point to another. I have know11 owners on numcron~ occasions to want to shift their cattle mvl sheep and be unable to do so because in time of drought all stock routes become t n ten out. The Charleville-Blackall railway wonld be of great benefit, not only to the J;CO! It­engaged in grazing in that area but to m·ery part of Queensland. The only way by whi('.h the country can be opened up is by a rnil­;1-ay. At present a road is being built out mto the Cooper channel countrv. I said on one occasion here that I vvas i1ot in favour of it. If it is possible to build a railwav it will be much more beneficial. I know exa"ctly what 11-m happen when an inch of rain falis on the black-soil in the channel country and out on the Cooper, and I have travelled out there and I have been there in the rainy season and I do not think that any road built in that country would stand up' to the heavy load of bullocks it is proposed to carry.

I have also advocated opening up by rail the country that lies between Yuleba and Thallon. I know that it will probably not

he built for many years to come but I believe it will eventually be built and it will open up all that country and be of assistance and great benefit to the people who desire to go there and live, and to the State generally.

Members of the Opposition praise the rail­ways on the one hand and condemn them on the other hut I notice that they use the railways to transport their wool and their sheep and cattle to the coast. The trains that are provided by the department for this class of ·work are fast trains. \Ve know that they have to stop at times and we know that they have to pull onto looplines to allow passenger trains through and we know that sometimes they have to wait some time for that purpose, but taking them as a whole the trains that are provided to get the stock down to the metropolitan area are reason­ably good. As I said here on a previous occasion, I was in a motor-car that broke down in Dalby at 5 o'clock at night. It was shipped from Dalby to Brisbane and it arrived at Roma Street at 7 o'clock next morning. If anybody disbelieves that, it can be checked up; I will hand him the name of the man who owned the motor-car, who is an ordinary private individual. The car was here a little after 7 o'clock the next morning.

lUr. Ewan: He was lucky to get an empty truck.

Itir. J. R. TAYLOR: That may have been so, nevertheless that is what happened.

Mr. Ewan: It was a fluke.

lUr. J. R. TAYLOR: That has hap­pened on other occasions that I know of. The hon. member will not give credit to the rail­ways for anything. Even if they flew it down he would say there was something wrong with it.

I wish to pay a tribute to an outstanding railway employee who recently passed away, in the person of Mr. Con. Byrne, who was the gel).eral manager of the South-western Division and stationed at Tom'lOomba. I har1 the pleasure of knowing Mr. Byrne for a number of years, and I introduced many deputations to him and had many interviews with him; and I can confidently say that on every occasion on which I interviewed him he listened carefully before giving a <l ecision, and once he gave a decision he would stand on it. I know that his passing is felt by a largo number of men employed in the railways in the South-Western Divi­sion. Men like him can be ill spared in this railway system of ours.

I will not he like other sprnkers this nfter­noon and laud the Minister. J~aclt hon. men­her who rose said ·what a \I'OlHlcrful :ioh lw has done and is doing. I snnpo e thnt en-er the years apart from his omee life, I lltn-e hern' men·;, closPlv nssoei:Jter1 with him than nu\~ oth<>r hon. m.elP.ller. Thr 11011. gentl('n1an tc,ok up the _ioh \'::th 1 he fnll i•Jteutin,, of ,. rr·-i•l!t it out ns ''" t!Jmwht it .slwn'rl he rnrricrl out He has 1\'0rllP<t h;Jnl in an

Supply. [9 :;\[OVEMBER.} Supply. 1207

endeavour to do that. It was said this after­noon that Tailway employees hold him in very high regard. Tl:e Lon. gentleman works long hmTs, somctinws well past midnight, w!Jen LP has some pTublem to solYe. It is \Yhen ;, man hag enthusiasm in his ,job that we get c:::cjcll('". Hut T will not haYe it said that ll(, otlw'r Minister in this Government does not do the same.

Government Members: Hear, hear!

lUr. J. R. TAYLOR: I know every Minister is eager to do a good job and doe9 a good job, and I hope -when other Esti­mates rome up for discussion the Opposition will he impelled to stand up and speak in the same terms of the Ministers in charge of those Estimates.

This afternoon the hon. member for Roma spoke of the accommodation provided for railway fettlers. Nobody will contend that the accommodation for fettlers and railway employees residing out of the cities ancl towns is all that could be desired but the hon. mem­ber must know that the Government ar!' always trying to "make things more pleasant for these people. The hon. member has been in Parliament for only a short time but since he l1as been a member of Parliament he must have received letters signed by the Minister ~aying that so-and-so's quarters are to be renovated.

llir. Ewan: No, I have not.

Mr. J,. R. T.AYLOR: Probably that would nut be so very strange after all, for the reason that most employees of the Railway Depart­ment r1o not get in touch with the hon. mem­lwr. They get in touch with me, knowing that I am a battler.

JI'Ir. Ewan: There are other Opposition members who do not get them and you will hear more a bout it later<.

lir. J. R. TAYLOR: Every member of the Government receives letters notifyiug <J pproYal of some work in his electorate.

Mr. Ewan: Opposition members do not.

lir. J. R. TAYLOR: Of course they do. It is ridiculous for the hon. member to say they do not.

lUr. Ewan: Prove it.

lUr. J. R. TAYLOR: I have no way of proving it. I leave it to the Minister to prove that it is not right. Is it possible that only Labour members would receive these letters from the Minister and not Opposition mem­bers~ I heard the last speaker say that we should drop party politics, but it is evident that the hon. member for Roma wants to bring them in. However, I am prepared to wait and hear what the Minister has to sav. I am not going to say that the hon. memb~r for Roma received such letters, because I do not think employees of the Railway Depart­ment would have very much faith in him; they would probably get in touch with me instead. I am sure the hon. member for Aubigny has had such letters frequently.

In conclusion, I say that the railways in Queensland compare more than favourably

with those in other States. With the excep­tion of the faster trains in the other States, I believe that Queensland trains are all right. I believe, too, that the employees, from the Minister down to the Commissioner and right through all the departments, have the desire to serve the people of Queensland well.

Itir. JESSON (Hinchinbrook) (7.15 p.m.): I did not intend to speak on the vote for the General Establishment, because I intended to have a lot to say on the Northern Division. However, I shall leave that till it come before the Committee later on.

As a responsible officer of the GovernmenL I should like to say something in reply to the criticism of hon. members opposite and to give them and the general public some idea of what a huge undertaking the Railway Department really is. Very little credit is given to these huge departments that are controlled by the various Ministers, and it might be of interest to hon. members opposite to know that the Railway Depart­ment, with all its ramifications, is as large an undertaking as the big steel works in Newcastle. It has involved the expenditure of many millions of pounds and employs about 27,000 people. It is one of the largest undertakings in Australia and it is controlled by a I,abour Minister; yet we hear hon. members opposite saying that Labour cannot run anything.

The railways are giving a very efficient service to this State, but Opposition members refuse to make any allo1vance at all for the way in which the:~ were ravished and over­worked during the war years, and that applies to the employees as well. Some of the country's largest companies at the presE'nt time cannot produce sufficient iron and stE'cl as the result of the same factors that :u,· preventing the railways from effecting an the repairs and building all the rolling stoek that is requirer1.

The railways of this State are kept yery busy in normal times, but at this time of the year there is ahmys an acute shortage of wagons brcause of the extra load thrown onto them by the requirements of seasonal industries, such as sugar, wheat, and wool. For almost the whole length of our coastline, hundreds of railway trucks are used at this time of the year to convey sugar-cane to the various mills ancl the requirements of the other season:'ll industries add to the burden and overtax the railways.

We have heard some remarkable speeches today from members of the Opposition .. On the one hand, the hon. member for Aub1gny threw his stink bomb over the Government benches aml said that our railway carriages were r1irtv and filthv and that people shoul<l not be expected to travel in them. Fi,·e minutes later he asked the Government to build a railwav line from Blaekall to Charleville. c

)Jr. ::'l}mrkes: ="iot I.

~Ir. JESSON: Then it was one of the hou. n1c1nber 's (·clle:;gLH'fJ. They un· nl\\·:1YR asking for ~omethiug and alwa,·s singmg their hymn of hate.

1208 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

I now come to the Leader of the Opposi­tion and I am very sorry indeed for him. He said that a member of ·;he Government l'arty referred to the i:::iunshine Express or to the new train that was bti~tg constructed ut the Ipswich railway workshops and added that when that train was built everything in the gurden would be lovely in the Railway Department. 'vV e have never said that every­thing in the garden was lovely in the Rail­way Department but we are doing our best to giYe servi"e to the people, to gtve them comfortable tmvelling conditions, and we are hindered <·onsiderably through shortage of laLour and shortage of material, which is common to all other industries too. The trouble in this country is that it is expand­ing at an enormous rate and it is difficult to keep up with the needs of the people. All Sta.tes are encouraging immigration, new land is being thrown open and private enterprise is installing new machinery in its factories. Is it any wonder that the Rail­way Department has not been able to do more than it has done up to the present, although it has done a magnificent job~

'£hen the hon. member for Roma maligned almost every working man between Too­woomba and , the West when he said there \Yere not enough conductors on the train, .>1lthough he did not suggest' that they should lie armed with swords or revolvers or blud­geons to knock the people down. He said that the people were likely to be molested 11y drunks and in this way he maligned ~n:l'y working man in the West.

m:r. EWAN: I rise to a point of order. I m~de no such statement. It is definitelv ofTensivc to me and I ask for a withdrawaL

'l'l1e TElUPORARY CHAIRlUAN (Mr. Clark): I ask the hon. member for Hinchin­broo1-c to accept the denial of the hon. mem­ber :for Roma.

:arr. EWAN: I ask for a withdrawal.

'I'he TE:!tiPORARY CHAIR:ltiAN: I ask thf' hon. member to withdraw the remark.

JUr. JESSON: I withdraw it; I have to. The hem. member said that one conductor lwd to look after eight or ten coaches. I will give a sucking pig to any denomina· tiona! hospital tomorrow if what I said the ho11. member for Roma said is not contained in '' Hansard.'' He said that one conductor had to look after eight or 10 coaches and that the only protection the women had in the pullman carriage was a little thin cur­tain. He said that there were drunks wan· dering up and down the corridor and in that way he maligned every working man in thE( 1\·<'~t. Decent Australians do not do that sort of thing and it may have been the hon. HJC'Ili\Jer himself. He said that there was not <•uouc;h supervision in the pullman cars. Craziers do not travel in railway carriages, they travel by aeroplane or in their luxur­ioucJ limousines.

Then we had the speech from the hon. memL8r for Sherwood, which was interesting aur! 1·ather refreshing, because he advocated

what I would recommend should be done in a time of plenty in the pastoral industry, and that is that freights should be increased in a time of plenty to offset the losses that may be incurred during times of drought in gh iug relief to graziers in carrying their ~tock and fodder on the railways for nothing. That is the way in which we should do it. (Laughter.) Hon. members opposite may laugh but they know that what I sa~ is true. I remember in the days gone by, ~5 years or so ago, when ,pastoralists got prices almost equal to those of today but being in the ma,iority on local authorities imposed rates of only 2d. and 3d. in the £1. They allo\Yed their districts to remain undevel­oped and subsequently had to come to the Govemment asking the Government to increase the taxes to get the money to enable these local authorities to carry out their services.

That is what would happen today. The hon. member for Sherwood hit the nail right on the head when he said that in times of plenty those industries that could afford it should pay the cost of hauling their produce. So they should. We know that wool-growers are now receiving a reasonable price. More destruction takes place with railway trucks carrying big bales of wool than any other product of the land. The bales force t.he doors and bulge the sides of the trucks. (Opposition Laughter.) As I have often said, a loud laugh denotes a vacant mind. Although wool-growers are good customers of the railway they are in a position to pay the correct freight rate and perhaps a little more. I hope that the Government will do something in that direction so that when prices got back to normal the Government would have a little surplus to hand out.

This morning the hon. member for Motmt Coot-tha read a speech in which it was stated that the Northern Division was paying and so was part of the Southern Division, and that the central-western line did not pay. That is quite obvious, because the latter line runs right out into the vast open spaces. If the Government kick the freights up on coal and the products of the pastoral industry they ·,vould only be doing the proper thing at the present time because in drought the railwa~-s remove starving stock and food for stan·ing stock at rates that are next to nothing. The Government give the people in the distant portions of the State a really good railway service. A dailv train service is run from I,ongreach to Wfnton. If that section of the railways was handed to private enterprise, it would cut that service down to one train a week. I c1nnot understand the attitude of the Opposition because in one breath they r 'k for greater services and in the next complai11 of the unsatisfactory financial results. TJw.,· even say ''Give it to privrtte enterprise.'' I.et them see what service it would get. They certainly would not get the service they arc getting today'.

Take another instance, the service given on the North Coast line between Innisfail and Cairns. That is one of the best services i11 the State, as people can travel to and from each town three times in the same day. Where

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. l209

,,·onl<l you get such a service under private t·uterprise? Tell me where you would get the same serviee nnder private enterprise as is given bctln;en Brisbane and Gympie and Br;s­l•mw :1nd i:3andgate today. I have seen tr:>ins travelling to Sandgate in the middle of the tlay carr;·ing not more than 20 or :>O pas­sengers.

JUr. Gair: Private enterprise would certainly close the non-paying lines.

lUr. JESSON: That is so, because under the Moore regime the branch line from Min­gela to Ravenswood was closed and men in the service were sacked holus bolus. 'l'hat Government reduced the debt on the railways hut even then they could not make them pay. As the Treasurer interjected, would private enterprise continue the services on non-paying lines? It would cut them out; the services right through the length and breadth of the State would be curtailed. An hon. member who gets up and condemns the Railway Department is a traitor to his country because it is doing a magnificent job. \IVhy, look at the train that leaves Townsville at 8 o 'elock at night for Brisbane, over 800 miles away. With few exceptions it steams into Roma Street station at half-past 6 o'clock in the morning. It is a magnificent effort, consider­ing the delays en route in passing special trains and goods trains, yet the Opposition condemn the service the railways give.

There is always something wrong when an engine breaks clown, but if the car of one of their members breaks down or a private enterprise truck breaks down and is three or four hours late, they say it is a bit of bad luck. If a train is late they say it is on account of maladministration by the railwav authorities. ·

I wish to say something about the electri­:fication of the railways. I have seen a num­ber of these electrification schemes in other countries-in Italy and London and in Sydney-and I believe the best method is to have the electric railway underground, and the lines should run like the tube in London, in a circle. That eliminates much danger. That system could be put into opera­tion here. You could go under the river and through the southern suburbs and then to the north side. I do trust that the Govern­ment will see that the electri:fication scheme is carried out underground. By doing that we could kill two birds with the one stone. The railway line from the Valley to Roma Street goes virtually through a hill, and that could be covered in and viaducts could open out to the various streets, and a huge park­ing station could be built over what is now an open cut; and in the event of war the area underneath could be used as an air-raid shelter for protection from atomic bombs.

At Southport there is a very virile branch of the A.L.P. and it has asked me to bring before the Government, so that it will be placed on record, a suggestion regarding the

overhead bridge at Scarborough Street, which is the terminus of the Southport rail·way. It runs across Scarborough Street and the town is moving down that way; and about half a mile farther up there is a dangerous crossing near a private hospital. If an overhead bridge was constructed it would eliminate that danger.

An Opposition 1\'Iember: That is not in ;·our electorate.

lUr. JESSON: The hon. member for Mt. Coot-tha got up the other day and asked a question, and the man who resides in my elec­torate is annoyed at the action of the hon. member in bringing the matter up. Members opposite arc always poking their noses into other people's business. I am making my representations on behalf of the A.L.P. down there. That body is doing a good job for the working-class people down there. They have to go to the A.L.P. An overhead bridge at Scarborough Street would meet a long-felt want by continuing the street right through towards Labrador. The request comes from Mr. Hill, the secretary of the local branch of the A.L.P. and I hope the Government will give it some consideration when money is available, at any rate investigate the mat­ter to see whether it would be \Vorth while.

T have nothing furthf'r to "ay just at JHPSUli t. There will be time enough later to s:ty it ou oth r seetional Estinu;.te.:; of the Huil\vay lJ<•p:;rtment. I lmn• also somethin; to say o1! \-ery in1portant Estitnatcs that -will t:e <·omiu\.; f'-.rwanl, lJut I suppose the Opposl­sitioil followill!o( tiHcir usual practice, will stune1~·all some matter a11d tlw Committ''" 1 111 110t he able to get on \Yith the business. For iHstalll·c. I shall have something to sa.y when t!H· Estim,,t,' for the ?-l orthern Division of ti1e HaihYays iJepartment come before the Com111ittce. ·

Tlce Opposition talk with thl-ir ton,;locs in thci r cheeks. In an attempt to ~ull the wool 01 L'l. the eves of the people they :ue guii; y uf u great <lea! of hypocrisy. :B'or instance, some­ut- the speeehcs coming from hon. me m Lero; O]ipusite today "·ere a ![roat advertisement . o~ (~utcnslancl! I'ick up the ll<'\\·spapers nml one 11·ill see in them headlines made 1;,· lite hOJ;_ member for Aubigny. He readkr: the heatllincs tucL<y when he made a statr-'""nt that he kno\\-' is untrue. The ;.Iinistcr 11ill

Tenh- efL ctiYcly to him but the sub.iect matter o/ these hca<1lillc:s \\ill lJe in the ne\Ysp~l\ll'T:':; of Sv~llwy ~uul :}It_,lbonrne ton1orrow n:oruin~2.·. 1\'h:t.t a ·great ac1wrtiscm nt that is for the P.h:'\0 of (~l1C'('l1ShU1ll! ll 011. 1ne1n1Je::.'s OI po:ute shuul,l Le asilnnH'il of thcn1selves for '' l,:~)(H·k­iug ·' the ~tate the way they do. Tl1ey r;,·t·r-· look the f<Jc·t that matter puhlishe,; j1.

the Brisbane '~ Conrler-;\Iail'' anpeal'"' iii t1ll' :Vlel1•ounw and Sydney papers tomorrow mom­ing and the people there can read these· items at their breakfast tables. J'\c\Y' itc·H!S pn hlishcd iu this aftl'rnoon ·s edition ,,f tlw Brisbane '' Tele.;rapli '' will be read in '-,-•hwy

Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

at half past 5 this eYening. Soutltcmers rea:1 tht!se mis-statements about QuccmJlanrl made J}_,- '(knockers'' ·who are for ever conde1uning tlt,:ir own State in an endeaYour to get some political kudos.

111r. ALLPASS (Condamine) (7.38 p.m.): This railway Yote has been very fully dis­t'Lissed and it is not my intention to coyer ;tnv of the ground already covered by hon. Jll('mbcrs who have spoken. I do not wish to critici;;e the railway allministration unduly tert::tinly not to put fonntrd destructiv~ "riticism. I admire very much the vigorous way in which the Minister is tackling his job, l>ut there are several ways in whif.'.h rail ser­Yiflcs could be improved.

For instance, competit~on aga.inst rail ttyu,c cot;ld be met by improving the ser­vwes. This would be much better than trying to meet such competition by legislation. In ~t former speech I mentioned some of the re.marks made by traders as to the consigning of go~ds by road as against consigning them hr rail.. ·when goods had to be cousigued to the West I have been told that they would lw sent by road because then theY would be n:.ore likely to. reach the consignee undamaged. 1 hat surely 1s a reflection of the efficieucv -of the railway service. This sort of thing eould be remedied.

I must repeat some of the things I said formerly in order to press them on the atten­tion of the Minister. For instance, the methods ad?pted for the handling of goods sent by rarl have a great bearino- on the efficiency <?f our railway service."' I have already said-and I repeat it in case the Minister did not hear it-that firms some­times s~nd goods by road because they know they Will get to their destination safely. IYhether that is true or not is open to ques­tion. I have brought this matter to the Minister's notice before. At many of the stations on lines built in the last 20 years­and ~hey . are few in ~umber and I suppose the Ime m my area IS the only one built during that time-the authorities have not provided cranes for the handling of heavy goods from the truck to the platform. The oldest known method of moving heavy goods is still in use, that is, by means of leYer~ and rollers. This is not fair to the cus­tomers of the railways or to railway employees. In the first place it seriously endangers the safety of the goods and in the second place could interfere with the health of employees. I bring the request to the Minister that he do everything possible to provide cranes to l1andle heavy consignments.

There is another matter concerning the health of the employees and the interests of railway customers that I should like to men­tion. I suggest that the Railway Depart­ment agree to the paying of the rental for telephones at country stations. There are a number of railway stations that have no telephone. I cannot say the number, but I know there are at least two or three in my electorate. Tbie Postmaster-General's De· partment will install the phone if the Rail­way Department will pay the rental.

JUr. Aikens: Have they not got the ordinary telephone in the trains-control office~

Mr. ALLP ASS: The request is to have the railway station connected with the local exchange. The P.M.G. Department has agreed to do this in one instance but the matter is being held up because the Railway Department will not pay the rental.

Let us view this matter from the cus­tomer's point of view first. Many of our people have to come in distances ranging from 20 to 50 miles to their nearest station and it is a great inconvenience to them if they cannot ascertain whether the goods they are expecting are at the railway station or not. They might expect the goods to be delivered on a certain day, and if they could use the telephone to see whether they had arrived it wonld be a great help to them and would save them needless travel. The provision of a telephone would help the railway employees also, because when heavy goods arrive and the consignee is not there to take delivery of them they have to be unloaded and reloaded later, involving double handling. If the consignee could be informed that the goods were there it would be helpful to both the employees and the customers. If these matters were attended to, it would help the department to meet competition from other forms of transport more effectively and thereby increase rail­way revenue.

I mention these things in all sincerity and trust that the Minister will give them atten­tion.

lUr. INGRA11f (Keppel) (7.44 p.m.): In making my contribution to this very import­ant debate I sincerely congratulate the Minister for Transport on the magnificent job he is doing with the railways of this State. I wish to congratulate his staff also. No matter when one wants to see the Minister or any member of his staff, one always receives courtesy and attention.

Much has been said by the Opposition today about the railway services. Every tim~ that the Railway Estimates come up for dis­cussion we hear severe criticism from the Opposition, and particularly from the hon. member for Aubigny, who is the greatest critic of Queensland's railway system in Aus­tralia. However, the criticism of hon. mem­bers opposite is purely destructive. They say that the present-day employees of the Rail­way Department work under disgraceful con­ditions, but I should like to take their minds back to the days when Tory Governments were in power. I worked under Tory Govern­ments, such as the Digby Denham Govern­ment, and in those days employees were not allowed even to straighten their backs or roll a cigarette.

:ilir. Aikens: The employee had to buy his own pick and shovel.

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1211

)lr. INGRAJU: He had to buy his own tools and his own tent before he could get a job on the railways. That is what the eml'loyees had to do then, and that is what they would have to do today if the Tories got hnck into power. However, the people have too much sense to return them to power.

'rhe hon. member for Cooroora said that ~5,000-odd men were employed in the rail­ways and that the increase in the basic wage would mean greatly increased costs. I take it that he wants to see a reduction in the rnihnty staff; he wants to see the same reduction as was made when the Moore Gov­ernment got into power in 1929, when thou­sands of railway employees were sacked. The Moore Government took engine-drivers off their engines and put them on the lengths; they sent union officials, who were looking after the interests of the workers, out to the X ewr-never. The conditions of the railway men today are good in comparison with those that operated under Tory GoYernments, who gave no consideration at all to the workers of this State.

Opposition members have spoken also about the housing conditions of railway employees. ·what have the GoYernment done about hous­ing rail way men~ During the last three financial years a total of 49 cottages for married men and 26 quarters for single men were provided at a cost of £46,000. In the Southern Dh·ision 12 married men's quarters and three single men's quarters were pro­Yidec1; in the Central Diyision 10 married quarters and in the Northern Division 27 married quarters and 23 single quarters. In addition, the Government have authorised the construction of six new cottages at Hughen­den, three at Cloncurry, one at Mount Isa, fin' at Emerald, two at Alpha, two at Long­reach, and eight at Blair Athol. The 10 cottages at Cloncurry, Hughenden and Mount Isa will cost £13,500, and the 17 in the Central Division, £17,425. And hon. members opposite talk about the lack of housing for rail way employees! Let them not forget that the majority of the cottages that have been eondemned today were built by a Tory GoYernment.

'!'hen hon. members opposite say that our trains are slow. Indeed, the hon. member for Aubigny said that you could walk as fast as the trains travel. He complained that the stock trains were slow but let me tell him that the average speed of stock trains in Queens­hmcl is greater than it is in New South \Vales, being 15.7 miles an hour in Queensland com­pared with 14.8 miles an hour in New South Wales. The Queensland Labour Government are the only Government who gave considera­tion to the graziers, farmers, and primary producers generally. We gave them reduced freights in every shape ancl form and then hon. members opposite criticise us.

1950-2 s

The hon. member for Cooroora said that the trains were slow but let me giYe him details showing the milage on the North Coast line-

Distance Time of Averarre - Travelled. Travel. Speed

per Hour. --·

Miles. H. M. Townsville to Bowen 119 4 20 25l; Bo\ven to Proserpine 40 1 30 26} Proserpine to

Bloomsbury 22 0 50 26!: Bloomsbury to

Mackay . . . . ;\J~ 1 [¥j 28 Mackay to St. Law-

rence .. 94t 3 15 29 St. LawrB~ce to

Rockhampton to 107 3 46 28;} Rockhampton

Gladstone 6St 2 25 28! Gladstonc to Bunda~

berg .. to 110! 3 52 28! Bnndaberg

Baddow 52l 1 50 28-t Baddow to Qympie 58 2 15 25! Gym pie to Roma

Street .. .. 116t 4 31 23!

They complain about our slow trains but we allow our trains to serve the people, to stop at every station and siding so that the people can get the goods they need. Do hon. members opposite want us to run one train after the other up the coast without stopping to give service~ Let me tell them that there are 600 trains a week in and out of the Rock­hampton railway station. What a marvellous feat, with our heavy engines and rolling stock, so battered in service in the war years!

Then we are told that the trains are dirty. I have travelled pretty extensively on the Queensland trains. I travel from Brisbane to Rockhampton each Friday night and back again on Monday. I also travel by train to various parts of my electorate and I say that the trains are not dirty. I have spoken to people from the South who tell me that the Queensland trains are cleaner and faster than trains in most parts of the Commonwealth­and I believe them. It is all very well for hon. members opposite to criticise the Govern­ment on the score of slow-moving trains but they do it only for political purposes. They know full well in their own hearts that we are cloing our utmost to serve the people.

The people appreciate the work this Gov· ernment are doing. If ever the Tory Gov­ernment regain the Treasury benches they would not give the same consideration to the working class. They would make them walk from one town to another before they could obtain rations. Under this Government workers in Rockhampton who travel to Mount Morgan and return daily from their employment pay Ss. 2d. for a worker's weekly ticket. The distance between the two towns is 24 miles. Did the Government of whom the Opposition are the lineal descendants ever do that~ No, theJ belted the worker from place to place and made them starve. I am astounded at the cheek of the hon. member for Aubigny in offering the criticism he did, for at the time his Government were in power he onlv offered the workers 30 bob a week and meat.

1 JUSt wanted to relate these matters to ~how that the Opposition clo not know what

t212 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

they are talking about. All they think <;>f is destructive criticism, nothing else. That is all we get from the hon. member for Aubigny and the other members of his party, particu­larly the hon. member for Roma. He is the one w;ho criticised the Government for the conditions they provided for the worker. He ought to be one of the last to criticise the Government on that account, for they are working under marvellous wages and con(ii­tions in comparison with what they received when nis crowd were in power. If ever his crowd get into power again, God help the workers as we shall have nothing, but an army of unemployed.

I want to draw the attention of the Minis­ter to the bottle-neck that exists in the rail­way yards at Rockhampton. It is the cause of delay.

Mr. Low: You are criticising the Gov­ernment now.

Mr. IN GRAM: I am not. I am only asking for sympathetic consideration of an alteration of the Rockhampton railway yards to benefit the goods traffic. The sooner those workshops are removed from those yards to Parkhurst the better for everyone concerned.

In conclusion, I sincerely congratulate the Minister for the magnificent job he is doing on behalf of and for the benefit of the State.

Mr. PLUNKETT (Darlington) (7.58 p.m.) : After listening all day to the speeches both for and against concerning the difficul­ties encountered by the railways I have come to the conclusion that there is something bigger to be considered in relation to our rail­ways than the support they receive from the Government members or criticism from the Opposition. It is all right to point out the difficulties confronting the railways. We can talk a long while about their difficulties and we can also po"int out methods of improv­ing the system. The railways have been con­structed for the development of the State and therefore they should interest both Gov­ernment and Opposition to the same extent nnd wh_ether the,Y pay_ or not is deserving of the senous consideratiOn of everyone in this Chamber .. We all know that today the rail­ways are m_ many respects not exactly what we should hke them to be. Some think we can mak~. them more efficient. Many things are reqmred for the development of the system and even if these were procurable it would be nearly impossible for the work to be carri_ed out to obtain t~e efficiency desired. As I saiil, although the railway system is part of the development of this State even in 10 or 20 years' times it will not be free of criti­cism by those who want to criticise.

It _is. an. essent~al part of our development and It IS Imperative that we should continue to develop it and make it more efficient. I think we . are well served by our railway system, wh7ch traverses the whole of Queensland. It IS absolutely essential that we should have raihvays if we are to develop our country· and I think we should endeavour as far a~ possible _and without any political bickering, to help :n _the development of our railways, because rt IS through them that we are going to settle this great country.

I agree with many of the things that have been said during this debate. I think it is one of the most difficult departments for any Minister to administer and one reason for that is that so many people use our railwa,·s in so many ways and over such vast di:3tan('Cs that it is impossible for everybody to be CJm­pletely satisfied with the service that is given. I think even in another 10 or 20 years that position will obtain; indeed, it does obtain in other countries where they have had railway systems for centuries. There is always :room for expansion and improvement in a railway system that is in the course of development, just the same as there is room for improve­ment and expansion in any industry. When can we say that we are 100 per cent. efficient in any industry? There is not one of which we can say that, because we are a growing and ileveloping country and we are learning from experience and becoming more efficient as we go on. No good purpose is served by continually talking of the many shortcomings that exist in our system. We are only a young country and there is a great need for further ilevelopmenL I listened to critieism from members on this side and eulogy from members on the other side. I venture to say that party politics has taken too much place in the argument about the . development of the railways. It is only the railways that will enable us to carry out our objective.

Apart from the arguments of members on both sides, much eulogy has been given to the Minister and I want to add my praise. He is a young man who has shown enthusiasm and energy and although he does not give you anything when you go to him­(laughter)-he is always courteous and has a nice excuse for not agreeing to your request. I do say that his is one of the most difficult departments. The Minister is a hard worker and I think we can all say that he seems to have a pretty good grip of the whole of his department, although it is a very extensive one. I wish to add my meed of praise of him, at any rate. I am glad that the whole Committee recognises the work he is endeavouring to do. The Minister or the Government have mapped out a pro­gramme and it will be some time before it can be carried out. We ought to be proud that the development of the country is going on to such an extent and that we can look for­ward to creating all these amenities for our people. Whether we like it or not, we shall always have some shortcomings in our public activities. Let us get down to work and try to do something by means of the efficiency of this department and our industries, to develop our country.

Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­Minister for Transport) (8.5 p.m.): I rise at this stage to see that " Hansard" con tai11 s a record of the refutation of the mis-state­ments that have been made by certain hon. members. That is my intention and mv reason for rising; I do not rise for the pur­pose of closing the debate. How long I shall speak depends on how long it takes me to develop the various points I have to make in refutation of certain statements by these hon. members.

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1213

I should be an ingrate indeed if I were not deeply moved by the expressions of good will that have come from both sides of the Chum ber in regard to the responsibilities that I am called.upon to discharge. I know of no debate on the Railway Estimates in which members on both sides of the Committee have approached their consideration with a greater degree of good will than on this occasion. I mn grateful for that. It indicates that hon. members realise the importance of this great instrumentality and are anxious to offer in the main suggestions that they feel would be of LeneJit to Queensland and enable me and the officers of the department to implement schemes that will provide greater operating etlieicncy for this great instrumentality.

I must say at the outset that I do not tal<c credit to myself alone for the things which have been done in the Railway Depart­ment. Many of these \rorks of modernisa­tion and rehabilitation had their beginning during the time of my predecessor, the pres­ent hon. member for Bundaberg. He set in train certain reorganisation and modernisa­tion plans that could not be developed very mud; because of material and man-power shortages. But I think it is fair to say that the momentum has been considerably acceler­ated in recent times because we have perhaps been able to imbue the administration with a little more enthusiasm, certainly get a good d!'nl more money, and without doubt a tre­mendous amount of good will both from the public and from our critics. I have made it :1 fundamental policy since I have become Minister of trying to take hon. members into m.1 confidence and explain the problems con­fronting them. I have found invariably that •dwn deputations come along, if you present the problems to them and ask the alterna­tiws they would suggest, and point out what ~'OU are doing, they then go away, if not as the honourable member for Darlington said a moment ago, completely satisfied, at least appreciative of the difficulty confronting the administration.

I have been extremely fortunate in having a Cabinet and members of the Parliamentarv Labour Party who have given me almost ~ free rein in regard to financial provision to 1levelop the various schemes that have been put forward. I have been singularly for­tunate too in having a Commissioner who although reaching the age when he will b~ ealied upon to lay down the cares of office, has crowned a career of achievement in the Railway Department. Despite those who feel that all these administrative posts should be entrusted to young men, although the Com­missioner may in terms of Public Service age ha,-c reached the end of his life's span, he has infected his close executives with the sHme enthusiasm for progressive work as he himself brings to his task. It has amazed me, as it has amazed many others, to see tlw extent to which he has applied himself to the work of carrying out in detail some of the general plans that were placed before him for consideration. I do not claim to

have· a detailed knowledge of the railways such as the Commissioner and his close administrative officers with whom I come in contact have. I have never posed as a tech­nical man. I have endeavoured to assimilate as well as I can information of a technical kind but I have found in the Commissioner, Mr. Lingard, Mr. Hall, Mr. ·walker and the other officers with whom I come in daily contact, a desire to confer on the friendliest possible basis on all occasions. Frequently the schemes that ultimately reach Cabinet are the result of a good deal of examination by the various officers. Always, I think, we have reached the particular recommendations with complete unanimity. In expressing my appreciation to those officers who have been of assistance to me, I hope the Commissioner will be spared to see out the balance of his term of office in good health and will con­tinue to show the energy that is one of his marked characteristics. I hope that when the time comes for his retirement we shall he able to find as his successor a man with the same great desire to make this instru­mentality something of which the State of Queensland can well be proud.

Having said that, I want to deal now with some of the contrilmtions made to the debate. I think that with one notaLle exc:eption every speaker has been fair in the presentation of his submissions on the ,-ariom; points he has disrnsscc1. I ean assuTe those hon. members that all of the proposals that have been ad\anc:ed I ·d1ail either deal with now or, if the occasion demands, have them examined by mv officers at a later date and if worthy of in:pJementation \\"C shall l.Je hrtll"V to take suitable action.

The hon. mcmuu· who continued the debate prior to the adjournment on Tuesday last, the hon. member for Lockyer, had occasion to rPfer to the unsuitable first-class carriages on the trains that run from Brisbane to 'l'OO\YOomha. l want to sav that I am not ''atisfied, nor is the Comm:issioner satisfied, \rith the type of first-class passenger coach ;Failable on most of our long-distance trains. 1 think that the type of earriage \Ye have on the Sunshine route-those of the more modern type--is an extremely comfortable one. It possesses very excellent riding qualities and until the introduction of one or two of the newer type of trains in the other States of the Commonwealth, was regarded as one of the best in the Commonwealth. It is our intention to replace these coaches progres­sively with modern steel coaches and I shall have· something to say later about air-con­ditioned trains runder construction at the present time. At the moment I should like hon. members to pay heed to what I am about to say, that when you get an hon. member airily saying that he heard something like this a year or six years or 10 years ago, despite the fact that we have visual evidence of progress and that when one can demon­strate to the Committee the progressive development of works in hand, you still have that type of hon. member to which the hon. member for Albert referred so pertinently as making these remarks purely for rarty

1214 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

political purposes and in order to discredit the administration, you inevitably conclude, in the words of the Archbishop of Canterbury, that such members are more concerneu to hit the headlines than present a ease with accuracy for the solution of these problems. vVhen we have a Press so much concerned with inaccuracies, misstatements and exaggerations we can only hope that the good sense of the majority of the people will dis­(OOUnt the value of such contributions. l do not want to pay a disproportionate amount of attention to the hon. member, despite the fact that I have been accused of spending some time on him in the past. There is the readP!' •vho is unfamiliar with the workings of Parliament and who feels, if the Press elects to print in a bold and spectacular fashion statements made in this reckless man­ner, that they must hav:e been the most important contributions made to the debate. The modern Press unfortunately seems to be more concerned with sensational statements than with anything else. For mstance, I read in the Brisbane ''Courier· :\Jail" this morninP' that the most quotable quote by the Archbishop of Canter· bury was that archbishops should be members of trade unions. Yet I heard the Rt. Rev. an_d Rt. Hon. gentleman yesterday say many thmgs that I should prefer to see quoted in the papers than that. I say that because so many people are unfamiliar with the work­ings of the Press and Parliament that they arc prone to acquire erroneous ideas of what actually happens in this Chamber.

In regard to the statements by the hon. member for Lockyer, let me say that as these air-conditioned trains come into use it is obvious that the present coaches being used on the Sunshine route will be used to make up the trains that will ply from Brisbane to Bundaberg and Gympie and from Brisbane to Toowoomba and Roma and westwards and in other parts of the State where the degree of patronage. justifieH the provision of a full steam tram. And we realise too that the modern rail-motor trains thnt' we 'have-not something we are going to produce from out of the thin air, not something that is a mere figment of the imagination of the Govern· ment, but something that has taken real shape in the shops of the Commonwealth Enfiine.ering Co.mp~ny in Sydney, the first of whiCh 1s to arnve m February or March next vear-will be an important step in our atlvance. ·

\Vc shall, T sav, have six of those. They will be placed iii parts of the State where the patronage may not justify the provision of full-length steam trains, but where the people are entitled to a greater degree of comfort than is provided by the present obsolescent type of rail-motors.

the motor is housed under the floor aml between the axles, and that type of .dcsigi: gives designers a greater op~wrtmnty of giving us a more comfortable rail-motor than we have. \Vithin the next fortnight we hope to receive specifications of that. type o~ rail­motor and, subject to the approval of Cab­inet, I hope to be able to announce that we are ordering some of that type.

Jir. Hiley: Is that a diesel?

lUr. DUGGAN: Yes. The hon. member for Lockyer said that

inadequate provision was made for co-ordin­ated passengers travelling from Brisbane. to Toowoomba. In reply to that, I should hke to say that I have encou;aged the pro~rietor o:f that co-orc1inatNl sorv1ce to oqmp lnmself \Yith the best possible fleet to cater for these passenuers and the service must have been a profitable one for him because in th_e whole of Queensland he was the only propnetor of a co-ordinated service who was prepared to operate for the next three years at the same rates as for the last three years.

I agree that there is need for a b~tter station building at I-Ielidon, but our officers who are entrusted with that type of work have informed me that it would cost about £45 000 to modernise the existing station efrdctively, and ab?ut £75,000 to build a completely new station.

All this talk about the uneconomic running of trains between I-Ielidon and Toowoomba does not bear close examination. ~fany pas­sengers travel on from I-Ielidon to . 1'oo­woomba; many of the trains from Bl'lsbnnc connect with trains leaving Toowoomba, which as all hon. members know, is the ccntT~ of a network of branch lines radia­ting out to the Da~·ling Downs. ~n addition, each night a cons1derable quantity of par­cels and mail is conveyed by the Toowoom)Ja train. If it was found necessary to termm­ate trains at I-Ielidon, we should have to build locomotive quarters, a carriage shed nnd n turnta blc, at a total cost of about £150 000. In aduition, the rostering of train crew~ eould not be carried out as economic­ally as at present if the train service tern;.­inated at Helidon. On the other hand, 1f the engine goes on it can be attached to another tTa1n and is thus earning revenue, and one of the great things that railway administrators must always do is to see that costly capital assets are kept in use as much as possible. That is one reason :vhy we are put­ting in diesel-electric locomotives. By attn~h­ing them to mail trains we shall be prond­ing a much better service for the people, and the long distances invoh·ed in Queensland will make their use economical.

~fr. Aikens: Will they be diesel-driven?

~Ir. DUGGAN: They will be diesel­(hiYcn. Not. content with providing such a type. of serv1ce, I have asked certain people to g1ve us an even more advanced design of a rail-motor. During the last 12 months or so there has been developed in various parts of the world a. type of rail-motor in which

The hon. member for North Toowoomb:ct made a very intelligent contribution to thiR debate with his usual elegance of diction. T cannot claim that I have that degree of assiduity that he said I possess, but I thank him for his remarks and assure him that the very close relationship . tha.t has existed between us since we have known each other will, of course, continue. If. ~ ca11: be of. a.ny assistance to him in my mnustenal pos1t10n

S1.tpply. [9 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1215

in rectifying any anomalies that oecnr, I shall be very happy. I can assure him that rail-motors will be placed on lines that jus­tify their use. We are not quite certain on what lines the density of traffic will justify their use, but they will be placed 0.1 lines without any regard to whether a particular electorate is represented by a certain mem­ber. 'l'he deciding factors will be the density of traffic and the neeus of the district. Some "-ill be allocated to North Queensland, some to Central Queensland, and some to the Southern Division.

The next gentleman who had something to say was the irrepressible and irresponsible member for Aubigny. He seems to think that he has established something of a reputation as a critic of transport but I am glad to know that the Opposition generally do not entrust the responsibilities of criticising transport to that irresponsible member. They have selected a man with more mature judg­ment, a man who is fair in his criticism and in his statements. I refer to the hon. mem­ber for Cunningham and I understand that this is the first year he has been called upon to serve on the Country Party transport committee. While I do not always agree with what the hon. member for Cunningham says, I always admire his principles and when he enters a debate he makes a useful con­tribution to it, from his point of view. I am glad that the Opposition have selected him for appointment to their transport committee because he will be a more responsible critic than the irrepressible and irresponsible member for Aubigny.

The hon. member for Aubigny made some reference to the initiation of a road transport service for the conveyance of cheese from Malling and other centres adjacent thereto. I doubt whether it is the desire of the hon. member to obtain a higher grade cheese than we have today or whether his desire is greater than that of the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock, who has no electoral responsi­bilities in the district but who has seen me much more frequently and given many more cogent reasons than the hon. member for Aubigny. He has asked me to provide not necessarily a road service, but the best pos­sible form of service for the transport of cheese so that it can be carried quickly and without deterioration to the Brisbane mar­ket. About 10 years ago a former Secretary for Agriculture and Stock, Mr. Bulcock, now the Director of Agriculture for the Common­wealth Government, convened a conference of cheese manufacturers from the Darling Downs and ·dissuaded them from agitating for the establishment of licensed road ser­vices and argued that it was preferable to convey the commodity by rail. Because of the recommendation of the then Secretary for Agriculture and Stock, the department com­mitted itself to the building of insulatec1 refrigerated wagons for this very purpose, If we are going on the one hand to commit an instrumentality that carries the great bulk of goods and passengers to the provision of this facilitv and at the same time allow an alter­native" transport system to eat into railway

revemH~ ;vc cannot expect to have our railway svstem modernised. The loss of revenue on tlwt particular line, if we agreed to the diver­sion of cheese transport to the road, would be about £4,000 a year, and if there is to be a diversion of £4,000 a year in revenue from the department it must mean that we can hardly be justified in maintaining that line in a condition necessary for the move­ment of a large volume of traffic. Opposi­tion members cannot have it both ways. They cannot ask me to provide a service that will deny us the revenue that would enable us to provide new rolling stock and better ser­vice and then come along and ask for the establishment of a road-transport service, Such a service is agreed to in many cases but how often do they do that, only to find that the passenger traffic available for a rail service uoes not warrant the continuance of a steam passenger train and therefore we have to be content with a mixed train~ We pick up the farmers' cream and transport it at a relatively low freight rate and return his eream can free of eost. We convey the school rhilrlren free to school ancl we have to cater for a multiplicity of requirements and herause we have to do that we cannot run a a fast express trnin.

How many times do you see a licensec1 air service come down evei-y five miles? It is obviously uneconomie to do so. No air serviee is likely to succeed unless it has a minimum radius of approximately 200 miles. You do not find an air service of any consequence operating bet;veen Brisbane and Toowoomba, because of the time factor. vVhen you take into account that travellers must go out tQ the plane, then when it arrives wait for it to undergo the inspection tests, then wait in Toowoomba and hire a car to go out and in f,.om the clrome, you see that the saving of time is no greater than if they travelled by ear. In the longer distances the air service is profitable and offer mu~h stiffer competition and consequently the an­companies eater for express services between the capital cities as they eau maintain thei,. schedules.

'\Ve could maintain a fast schedule between Brisbane and Cairns by our trains, if we had sufficient passengers. '\Ve could run through non-stop, except for the time taken to water t~e steam trains, ancl with the diesel engines It will be necessary only to refuel at Mackay on the forward and return journeys. The deisel train we shall have operating here in the next two or three years-the time will be dependent on the delivery date of the success­ful tender-can carry on non-stop to Mackay and on the return jouTney from Cairns travel to Mackay non-stop. But we have to cater for the people at the intervening stations and those people who require mails and bread. That reminds me that lYe have been charged by the hon. member for Roma ;vith charging an extortionate rate on the carnage of bread, but I shall have something to say later on that particular subject when dealing with the hon. member for Roma. It is necessary to state these things because they are real facts. In the same way in which the Treasurer i-; responsible for catering for all departmenta

1216 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

and providing a balanced budget, so must the Railway Department live as closely as possible to the appropriation approved by the Treasury each year. I could spend £15,000,000 or £20,000,000 without any trouble in the Railway Department, but the Railway Department's claims and require­ments must be considered with the claims and requirements of other departments, and the Treasurer and members of Cabinet, after hearing the points of view of the various Ministers, come to an agreement on the appropriation for the various departments based on the funds available. If our friends opposite, who are so critical of the railway system, would e;xercise some influence with their confederates in the Federal sphere who were elected to power on the specific promise to put value back into the £ and to check ~he spiral of inflation which is playing havoc with our finances, then we could do a great deal more.

I have to thank the hon. member for Cooroora for his constructive suggestions, although he was guilty of several inaccuracies. There is a need for the duplication of the railway between Caboolture and Theebine. I hope that is a work that will be carried out by the Government in the near future. We have not been able to get draftsmen and surveyors even for works that have a very high priority. I mentioned the other day that we have approved of an expenditure of £330,000 for regrading the track between Emerald and W estwood in the Central Divi­sion. That work is held up because no surveyors can be obtained for it and the Federal Department of Supply and Develop­ment has been contacted to see if it can provide any relief.

The hon. member also referred to the inadequate accommodation provided for our employees. I do not think any Government instrumentality, other than the State Housing Commission, has provided more accommoda­tion for its employees in the last four years than this department. We have pursued an energetic programme of providing accommo­dation for railway employees in various parts of the State. All this talk about people living in primitive accommodation is incorrect. We haw a policy of replacing tents in which employees were formely accommodated, by approved portable bond-wood huts costing five or six times more than tents. The railway employees are entitled to that improved accommodation, even if it costs six times as much as the tent accommodation.

JUr. Sparkes: The huts would last five times as long.

.:tlr. DUGGAN: That is so. Some of these employees are moved about from time to time and these bondwood houses can be moved with them.

I do not know exactly what the hon. mem­;,pr meant about the discrimination between the country and the city in regard to increas<e in rates and fares, because it was made on a 11niform basis throughout the State. It is true that from time to time, when increases ~1·e announced, we agree to exempt rhRrges t u to a certain an1ount.

Mr. Low: ls. Sd.

lUr. DUGGAN: That is about the figure. That is for the reason that over the last thirty years, on any occasion when an increase has taken place on the lower fares, there is a minimum increase of a penny. I can recall the time when platform tickets were only a penny and they are fourpence now; on each occasion there has been an increase of lOO per cent. in those cases. Iu the suburban area particularly, where the fares of ls. 8d. m· less operate to a greater extent than else· ,.,·here, it is more expensive for people to get n return fare than to get a single ticket for a comparable distance outside the radius of the metropolitan area. I say that in fair­ness to members in Brisbane. Some country members refer to these things ancl suggest that we are discriminating in these matters.

Accumulated leave is a problem that is con­cernin()' the administration. \Ve have been able ;;-; eertain instances to give additional leave to men who are stationed where replace­ments could be obtained. Where it is po:-;­sible to get casual replacements easily, we gi'" fettlers and similar employees what leave tney are entitled to. We cannot do that with th~: running men and the station-masters, alth?ugh for the last three years \Ve have progress1vel.'· increasetl the amount of leave. I should like to give every fitter a month's leave T'nder the award he is entitled to three week's leave, plus a tlay for every statutory ~oliday; an([ when there are ten statutory holidays and we can give him onl)· three weeks we are build­ing np a liability of ten days each year; and if he works on some Sundavs that increases it. I have no reason to be obstructive about thesP things. It would be good busi­ness to gin; it to them. There has been a tremendous inerease iu wages and the defer­went of leave means a tremen(lons added cost. l should like to give them the eash equiva­lent of the ac•cruccl leave but at the time the unions were not prepared to accept it­and I do not blame them-for the reason that at the time a high tax rate operated and if ":e had it superimposed on the normal rate th1;; gratuity of £100 or £200, would have meant that they would eome up to the tax targets c,f £800 or £(1(10, which would absorb a u unfair proportion of the gratuity earned over a number of years.

}lr. Aikens: They prefer time off to the money.

JUr. DUGGAN: Yes. There is no obstinacy on our part. It is only a question of how to get technical men. If :;·ou look at the metropolitan papers in Southeru States you will seP pages and pages of advertisements inviting boilermakers and fitters to accept employment in Yarious undertakings.

JUr. Kerr: Why not give it back in £50 instalments?

1\Ir. DUGGA"X: In case of sickness or financial embarrassment-we do make such pTovision as that an(] the unions have not objected. \Ve cannot deal with this matte1· of our ow11 ,-olition. During the term of my predecessor \I"C attempted to do so and sn ttpproach \vas n:atlc by the unions to tlw court alltl it ruled that if the men elected

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1217

to leave their credit entitlement~, the depart­ment could not insist on their taking the cash equivalent. I agree with that interpretation.

An Opposition ~I ember: Is it still growing~

~lr. DUGGAN: Yes, in many sections, particularly technical sections-station­masters, locomotive running men, and ''"ork­shop tradesmen; it is unfortunately growing in those cases.

The hon. member for Cooroora referred r, lso to the need to provide additional cross­ing stations. Between Caboolture and Gympie, a distance of 75 miles, there are 22 crossing stations and between Gympic and 'l'heebine, a distance ·of 22 miles, there are ftve. Obviously there is a limit to the num­ber of crossing stations you can justifiably, from an economic point of view, put in in a given stretch of ]jine. According to our e-xperts we have reached saturation •point in the building of crossing points between thosP two points.

I do not propose to say very much about the superannuation scheme because a Uovernment member, I think the hon. mem­ber for Bremer, dealt very effectively with it.

A serious mistake was made by the hon. member for Cooroora and I am sure it was made only because he did not study his brief ~nffieient1y. I regret that he made it. He _,-as dealing with a section of railway line o' which Jle should have some knowledge, !Jecaus<: he has lived in the area for a low' time. He stated that the 5-chain curves on the Br;..;bane to Gympie line, between Coorrrn and Gympie, were possibly responsible for the unfortu.Jlate Traveston disaster. That oecurred 25 years ago and there has not been u passenger train derailment at that point sinr,e. That is the first main point I want to correct. The second point is that there are no 5-cllara curves between tlie towns men~ tioned. The sharpest curve in that section is an 8-chain curve. The hon. member is out only about 56 per cent. in his estimate of the curvature at that point. As a matter of fact, of 63 curves bdween these points there nrc 17 of 8-chain cu, vatur.e, two of 9-chHin enrnt~ ture, 22 of 10-charn curvature, anr1 thuy carry on with the variou" numerals until thrv re-a,.], the highest poini of two curves with n GO-ehain curvature

The other important matter is this: +Jt" hon. member may have been a competent railway clerk but apparentlv he did not possess the knowledge of all those things that are likely to contribute to a railway accidPnt. The Government of the day entrusted that responsibility to a Royal Commission com­posed of men who had the requisite profes­sional knowledge to examine this matter. They did not say the derailment was due to the curvature. Among other thin:;rs, this i~ whnt they said-

'' The derailment was not attributable to :my defect in the track.

''The court is unable to sav definitelv "·hat was the caus~ of the derailment, bt;t the eYidence tends to show that it wa~·

causcrl by a portion of the brakeshoe of the right~hand leading wheel of the leail­ing bogey of the luggage van becoming detached and falling down in front of th•• trailing wheel on the same side, thl'rt:i>.' causing it to mount the rail.''

I think the finding of the Royal Commis· sion disposes of the idea that curvatures or conditions of the track were responsible. The hon. member's statement does not du very much good. There are some people who upproach an air~travel journey with some degree of trepidation and if they are told thut there are a number of sharp curves on the train . tracks where a number of people had been k1lle<1 or injul'ed they might be disinclined to entrust their transport to the Railway Department. I kno\\' of no transportation medium through~ out the world that has a lower accident rate than the Clueensland railways.

.\.nd now I desire to make some refercnen to wlwther or not we are doing enough in the matter of the recruitment of staff. We ha1·e some grave deficiencies of staff in many see­tions but we are better off than any other· sYstem in the Commonwealth in this resrc The Victorian railways are spending thousan<'ls of pounds a year asking people to become porters on Spencer Street or I~linclers StrPet railway stations. Attractive brochures are distributed throughout the State to endeavour to induce men to enter the service. So graYc has the position there become that they :rccepted the responsibility of recruiting in l~:n~land 1,000 trained artisans to come out to \'ittoria. I think the administration, with all dne respect, chose a very unhappy name for 1lw OJ:eration. The)· called it ''Snail'' (Laughter) for the reason that thev brought these 'men out with 1,000 prefabric:ated !toil"' . This, of course, •voul•l mean that the families coming to Victoria brought their homes on their backs, like a snail.

We have been charged with having taken up Tails at certain sidings. 'fhere is a very great shortage of rails in Queensland and e,·ery other State of the ('ommonwealth. I hove not the figurRs with me just at present lmt we plared orders in England in recent times for bet>yecn 50,000 and 60,000 tons of rail<J. Considering that the price of Australian rail' is a )lout £18 a ton and of English rails a bout £31 a ton hon. members will realise what increased prices we ure paying for imported steel. We will not spend money needlessly. that is. if we find the YolumP of traffic at a partieular siding is not sufficient to justify its retention. These siclinas are onlv removed after the closest ana lysi; hv the Cornmissioncr and his staff. · "

I no1v return to the remarl;s made hv the l1on. ll.ember for Aubigny. I1 e said thn"t the raihn1ys, instead of illlproving ancl instead of >howing ~m implementation of the pr01:1~ ises that hnd been made, were the worst rall­wa~~ sYstem in the world. He said that last .ve~tr. ·He rep: ate<l it this ~ear but it ha cl nclded emphasis on this oceasion, in tlwt he sai<l that the position had become wor,,e. 1 le s.<ici tltat it \Yas a tlctet·iorating utility and that tl1c ::\finister was merely ma':iug airy

1218 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

I•rnmises about things. For the information oi' hon. members who are interested, I want ~o tell the members of this Committee that Jl August, 1950, a record tonnagp in the ~istory of the Queensland railways was car­i~ed. The milways carried 774,374 tons an 1-erage distance of 156 miles.

Not only is the volume growing, but the ~verage distance of haulage is growing. Because of motor competition, all traffic for short distances, which is a remun­erative traffic, is being lost to motor tranport. Our average haul is greater and our costs are mounting tremen­dously because we are not getting coal in sufficient quantities from the West More­ton area. We have built up to the highest level our coal stocks in the metropolitan area at great financial cost, and I want this point to sink in the minds of hon. members oppos­ite-that with the exception of the City Electric Light Co. and the Brisbane City f'ouncil pOIYer-house eYery utility in Brisbaue conducted by priYate enterprise that requires coal for the production of power draws that coal from the West Moreton district at 30s. to 35s. a ton and that the major require­ments of the railways are brought from the Calli de and Blair A thol fields at a landed cost of from £4 10s. to £5 a ton. The rail­ways are therefore giving an indirect sub­sidy to private enterprise in regard to coal, particularly when you consider that the rail­ways use in the vicinity of 700,000 tons a year. When one multiplies the difference between the average cost of coal in the West Moreton field and the average cost of bet>veen £4 10s. and £5 a ton from Blair Athol by that figure, one has some appreci­ation of the added cost placed on the shoulders of the Railway Department. The hon. member for Aubigny said ''Hand the railways over to private enterprise antl we should make a good job of it.'' I have not consulted the Premier on it, but if the hon. member for Aubigny, with his vast wealth and huge estate in Queensland, can influence other members of comparable wealth to take over the railway system I should say that the GoYernment would accept the offer to transfe:- the Railway Department to private cnterpr:se, on the understanding that priv~1te tnteqn~ ·.> roll(1udefl the utility at the rates and fares that operate at present. I make that offer.

This too is the hon. member who talks about obsolete trains. I doubt whether the hon. member has ever travelled in a train. He passes them at a high speed and if he sees a train it is only a blurred vision as he goes past. I doubt whether he would know the r!ding qualities of a particular type of car­nage or for that matter any particular make ?f car. One week he elects to go to his home m a Chevrolct, the next week in a Holden, the next week in a Ford and then in a Buick or a Cadillac or a 'Bentlev or a La Salle. The hon. member mentioned as I said something about private enterprise taking OYer t~e responsibility. Where has pl'ivate entm;pnse ac:epted the responsibility of con­ductmg a railway system in the world~ He •xonlt1 say ''in America '' nnd hP woulf1 ~ay

''I have been there; I have seen magnificent fliers covering distances in a matter of hours because they travel at such high speeds on magnificent tracks with air-conditioned trains and with negro· waiters to dispense whisky and soda, and similar things.'' ~ow true is the statement that they are makmg profits g

Since the end of the war, there have been nine increases in freights and fares by the various American railway companies, and ''Fortune'' magazine, which is perhaps the most authoritative journal on this and other subjects, has something to say about it. I saw this statement some months ago and asked Mr. Lee, the secretary to the Commissioner, to get it from the library for me, which he kindly did. I am referring to the June, 1949, issue of "Fortune" which has this to 'say, under the heading "The Coming Crisis in Transportation'':-

''The uniYersal soft spot on the free­enterprise front, for the last forty years or more, has been the transportation industry. Nearly every nation on the globe subsidizes transportation in one way or another, and most of them have already nationalized their railroads. Thus the notion that the milroad 'problem' can be 'solved' only by government ownership has become almost an international article of faith.''

Then it goes on to say-

'' But the emergency is over, and a new crisis is on the way. The railroads seem headed for the parlous physical and :finan­cial state that twice made them the nation's No. 1 candidate for nationalization.''

It goes on to say many other things and deals with the amount of damage done to the roads by motor transport and tlte possi­bility of competing against certain types of road transport. It then goes on to deal with the alternatives and says-

" It means that they must be allowed to abandon hopelessly unprofitable opera­tions.''

We could have a balanced budget in the railways if we closed down every unprofit­able branch line in Queensland, and dozens of them are unprofitable. I do not like read­ing from notes on these things but I am very concerned that there shall be a written record in '' Hansarcl'' so that those people who believe that '' Hansard'' affords them a measure of interPst in their reading will see that unfortunately our democratic system allows men to come here and make irrespon­sible statements, with the result that the time of Ministers is taken up in refuting them.

The hon. meml1cr said something to the effect that instead of spending vast sums of money on electTification, we should start at the other end of the State. I crave the indul­gence af the Committee if I have to read one

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.} Supply. l:H9

or two things in this regard. '£he latest a vnilablc figures regarding the losses on some hranch lines in Queensland are as follows:-

Hughenden-\¥inton Cloncurry-Dajarra Longreach-Win ton Emerald-Longreach Roma-Cunnamulla W estgate-Quilpie ,T ericho-Y araka 'l'hee bine-N anango Kingaroy-Tarong Oakey-Cooyar \¥ ulkuraka-Y arraman

£ 81,037

9,243 34,399

104,916 151,584

25,917 34,611 26,121

6,249 15,155 26,791

I am not saying that there is not some justification from a developmental point of view for the establishment of additional lines in Queensland; I agree with the Premier \Yholeheartedly when he says that some of these lines, because of the contribution they are making towards the development of this young continent of Australia, and because of their defence value, should be subsidised where they become uneconomic from purely a State point of view, and if the Commonwealth Government are prepared to agree with that I shall be quite happJ- to recommend the building of many of the lines that have he en men tionecl.

We have not only the capital cost to worry about but also the loss on working. I have had some figures taken out regarding the number of stock in the North-West and the Northern Territory that would be available to supply the southern markets. If we built the Quilpie-Dajarra-Cmnoowealline-a distance of 660 miles-the estimated present cost, which would be tremendously higher when the work was actually clone, would be £18,500,000. The yearly interest would be about £610,000 nnd the loss in working expenses, £200,000, making a total deficit of £810,000. That is the )lOsition with one line alone. If the people of Queensland feel that this line should be built, then they must be prepared to accept the responsibility of financing the deficit involved. Then there is the Quilpie­Dajarra line, or the Dajarra-Camooweal line. I personally favour the latter. The annual loss would be £294,000 a year. If we built the Quilpie-Windorah line, the loss would be £166,000 a year and if we built the Charle­ville-Blackall line the deficit would be £234,000 a year. I could mention many more lines besides. It is not beyond the capacity of engineers to prepare and design the plans and it is not beyond our capacity to order the steel rails from England at £37 a ton. We should have to use concrete sleepers, because of the denudation of our forests. If the Government and the people of the country are prepared to stand up to these deficits, it is all right with me.

The hon. member referred to the subject of electrification, but because so many other hon. members dealt with the subject, I shall deal with it later on.

The hon. member for Mulgrave had some interesting observations to make about the

development of areas in North Queensland. I want to tell him that we are uoing exactly what he suggested, that we are progressively replacing the small bridges with concrete bridges, that an our major structures now are concrete and steel, or steel. I am glad to hnve his acknowledgment that we are doing importnnt gradient work and taking out a. number of curves. I am not an engineer, but in looking through an overseas magazine some time ago I saw that large concrete pipes were superseding the ordinary type of bridge, nnd that seems to be Yery much common-sense. I have discussed the matter with the Commis­sioner and our engineers and it is proposed, in the low-lying areas, to put down a series of huge concrete pipes and cover them with earth, and in that way do away with wooden bridges that haYe been expensive to maintain in the past and will be increasingly difficult in the future because of the shortage of suit­able timber in Queensland.

I come now to the hon. member for Coor­paroo who, as usual, was very temperate in his remarks ancl made a very reasoned speech. He made a contribution to the debate not so much in regard to the desirability of electri­fication of our existing system but as to whether it was adequate for future require­ments in the metropolis of Brisbane and whether it was desirable to effect a link between the north and south sides in our electrified service. On his second count I agree with him. With regard to his first observation I feel confident that the network of suburban railways is such that we can cater for the increased population for many years to come. We can extend the service along the line to Ipswich and eventually hope to extend as far as Beenleigh and then South­port, after the Kingston electrification area has been served. Most o£ the places requir­ing an electrified train serYice are on the main line, or reach to the waterfront.

We do not expect that there will be any great difficulty in regard to the amount of room available for electrification, because tremendously greater density of traffic it is possible that under electrification-I clo not know from memory, but the headway from steam trains is quite considerable, possibly 10 minutes-whereas with electrified working headroom of 1-!t minutes is possible. After all, it took considerable courage to ask the Government for £9,000,000 for electrific2tion. I have learned suffi­cient sense since I have been in Cabinet to know what is a fair thing. I thought that if I asked Cabinet for £9,000,000 to carry out the electrification scheme it would be much easier for me or my successor to get the additional £2,000,000 at a later elate. I agree that there is need to have communication between the north and south sides. The Treasurer, who repre­sents a south-side constituency, and I have had some consultation with him on this matter nnd with our officers and the officers advising on the electrification proposal. At present the south side train terminus is at South Bris­bane. The traffic from it comes over the Victoria Bridge and adds to the congestion, and the congestion is added to again as

1220 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

the travellers mix with people leaving work. We could at the peak-hour period, if the present terminal was linked with Roma ~treet, overcome the congestion at present existing after the arrival of the train and the congestion in taking the traffic in the reverse direction.

Once we have made some progress with the programme of work we have before us, I am sure this work will be authorised by the Gov­ernment. I have consulted the engineers, who have informed me that the river crossing will be somewhere between Grey Street and the Helidon Spa Company's works, where it will link up with the connection on this side. I thank the honourable member for Coorparoo ·for referring to this matter, but the Government are alive to the need of doing something in that direction.

The honourable member for Mt. Coot-tha had no serious criticism to offer until he was prompted by an honourable member not far removed from Dalby that no doubt the con­cessions enjoyed by the Queensland-British Food Corporation contributed to the working losses of the railways in the Central Division. The Queensland-British Food Corporation, when forwarding its products, pays exactly the same rate as the consignor of any other similar products. It is not receiving any preferential consideration.

T must confess that one of the greatest surprises of the debate was the contribution of the honourable member for Mundingburra. I have had certain verbal duels with the honourable member and I am sure it is recognised, because of my knowledge of politics and temperament and the ,fact that we are so diametrically opposed, that we shall have verbal duels in the future, but I ean say to him on this occasion, because of the eloseness of the visit of the Archibishop of Canterbury and his exhortations to us, ''Thank you for your contribution.''

The Leader of the Opposition accepted my offer to engage in some constructive criticism. He was concerned about the repair position of our rolling stock. We have been equally concerned about it, but this branch of the instrumentality is not a deteriorating one. The wagon-repair posi­tion is this: On 4 December, 1948, 12.4 per eent. of the total number of wagons in the service were under repair. By working over­time in our workshops and farming the work to outside organisations that percentage was, on the 11th of this month, decreased to 7.1 per cent. In this period we have been able to effect a saving of roughly 5 per cent. of the 20,000 wagons in use. It will be agreed that that is a valuable contribution to the work of repairing.

As to our locomotives, on 4 Nove~n~er, l948, 26.9 per cent. were out of commissiOn ~nd on 2 November that figure was reduced to 24.7 per ccut. \Ve have had 10 Beycr­Gnrratt locomotives injected into our system rnd another 10 are leaving France in Decem­ber next, and we shall have another 35 B18i rnaines between March and June. So the ho~. member for Aubigny, who talks about these things as being paper claims, can see ihat we have taken some positive action.

Mr. Aikeus: What about replacements t0 the Bcyer-Garratts:

Mr. DUGGAN: We have imported thosE tltings that are considered to need replaee­ment. \Ve have spares ordered.

I want to be clear and to say that I agreE wholeheartedlY 'dth what he said and the hon. member for Chermsicle about the clutter ing up of traffic in the Roma Street goods yard. It is no goocl laying the hlame on any particular ~wrson 's shoulders. I ha cl a dis­cussion \Yith the Commissioner and we :ne in complete agreement. It does nDt matter whether people did no~ forsee this State's development or whether there is a shortage of trucks, the fact remains that no State can afford to have this gross economic loss that occurs when trucks and men are laid up for six or seven hours waiting to effect transit from road trucks to rail trucks. There can be no justification for these serious delays. It is due to the fact that Roma Street has become too small for the increased traffic, and added to this problem there is an insufficiency of wagons. In Darling Harbour every morning 300 trucks are placed to enable the Hlmntcr nnd the yard foreman to make trucks available, but in Queensland we have frequently to wait to unload trucks before we ran allot them to a carrier. It is a combination of inadequate room and of the insufficiency of rail trucks that causes the tTonble, but we ha\·e not been idle in the matter of placing eontTacts for trucks. We have on order 1,220 tTucks from the Common­wealth Engineering Co., 600 from Metropolitan C"ampbell in Great Britain, and 138 of these have been placed in traffic and there are others on the way at the present time. We have also a matter of 1,300 trucks on order at Evans Deakins and because of the slow delivery of steel there has been a grave delay in delivery, r.nd we agreed with Evans Deakins that they should purchase English steel for some of the component parts of the wagons in order that their delivery might be expedited.

And although we have a Commissioner who operates an allegedly deteriorating public utility and has an obsolescent system and has lost the idea of how to conduct the instru­mentality, and a Minister and a Government who seem to be ignorant of the re"luirements of the State, we were the first State to insist on a penalty provision for the slow delivery of wagons. We ordered 1,000 coal wagons. Tenders were called in the Commonwealth and in England and the Commonwealth Engineering Co. was the only one of the 24 that accepted a penalty provision. We signed a contract in January this year for delivery in 19 months and they have delivered 40 already, and it is expected that the whole contract will be completed four months before the period limit. This system of imposing a penalty is new and it was followed by the other railway systems after we instituted it.

I have not previously made reference to what I am about to say, but I haYe the authority of Cabinet to invite tenders for another 1,000 :B'JS wagons that will be delivered under the same penalty provisions.

Itlr. Hiley: What is an FJS?

Supply. [9 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1221

1Ir. DUGGAN: It is a four-wheeled wagon of 10:)-ton capacity. It is a very useful wagon. The coal hoppers can be used only for zinc concentrates and coal, but these F.JS wagons can be used for these purposes as well as goods traffic. We have clone every­thing possible to expedite delivery. Our a.eliveries are more forward than those of any of the other States. We shall be able to effect an improvement in our position before any of these other people.

The hon. member for Mackay referred to the age anu educational standard .of employees. He also made a plea for improved refreshment-room service on our northern line. When the air-conditioned trains are completed we shall have a dining car, which will be modernly appointed. However, I shall have something to say about that later when I am summing up generally.

The hon. member for Roma was critical of the fact that we were spending so much money on electrification. He was only £5,000,000 out but to these gentlemen who have grazing properties that is not a very big sum nowadays, so he can be excused for thinking that that sum was a matter of indif­ference to the Government. The hon. member, with his flair for playing with figures, seemed to be possessed of boisterous enthusiasm­one of the characteristics of certain western people-but the hon. member for Hinchin­brook, in his inimitable fashion, dealt very pffectively with that hon. member who made a grent song and dance about the fact that the railways chargecl 5d. to carry a loaf of hreacl 50 'miles. ·with that roaring sound that seems to be characteristic of some of the Country Party members from the sonth­\resiern parts of the State he said, ''This is what "·e expect from these city slickers. How do yon expect people to live in the \Ycstcrn parts of the State when for the staff of life ~-ou have to prry fid. to transport a 2-lb. loaf of bread fiO miles.'' Like many otl1er hon. members, I have a certnin amount of solidity a bout me and my family require­ments are certainlv much in excess of a 2-lb. loaf of bread daily. I know of no person living in the West who will order a 2-lb. loaf of bread a day. It is factually true that we charge 5d. to transport a loaf of bread in the ·west, but it is true also that we transport four 2-lb. loaves there for 9d. That is what the ordinary person there would order-about four loaves and possibly 14 loaves would probably be the require­ments for a large family and station hands, and for this we charge only lOd. If the hon. member is so zealous in the matter of how we are filching certain inalienable rights of the people of the West on this matter, why does he not address himself to the Com­monwealth authorities and ask for their pro­tection by having the great instrumentality of the post office, now with a Postmaster­General of his political colour, to transport a 2-lb. loaf of bread 50 miles for less than 5d. ~ I challenge the hon. member to show that that great instrumentality would trans­port 14 lb. weight of goods up to 50 miles for lOd. anywhere in Australia.

The Leader of the Opposition had some­thing to say about longitudinal seats in rail­way carriages.

}fr. ~icklin: An out-of-date arrange­ment.

JUr. DUGGAN: Again his statement has some tr.uth in. it, but people could get a wrong 1mpress10n of the position if they accepted his statement. We have four of these coaches out of 1,000 coaches, and of this number one is in the workshops for con­version, the other on loan to the South Bris­bane area and the other two are used only for excursion specials. As a matter of fact, these four coaches are only placed in com­mission at Christmas or rush holiday J!criods. The way the hon. gentleman spoke one would think that we had a number of them running on our lines and everybody was very uncom­fortable and miserable because they hail to tra ,·el in them.

The hon. member for Roma made the fan­tastic suggestion that the freights in the West were loaded against the people in that part of the State. I do not know where he gets that peculiar idea. As a matter of fact, we subdiside certain building material con­signed to local authorities in the western part of the State. An<1 in the increased freights that we were obliged to impose some time ago we gave relief to the people in the West. We had complaints about the freights on the carriage of scoured wool and when our last increases took place we exempted scoured wool with the idea of huilrl­ing up western scours.

'l'he hon. member for Roma became almost hysterical because I refrnined from approv­ing of a suggestion of his that we should give excursion rates from Roma on Thurs­day nights. The point I make is that there must be some line of dem:ucation somewhere. As in taxation, certain rates of tc,x apply to certain incomes. As an example, a man enming £499 a year might be paying 9d. in the £ aJ)(] a man Parning £500 a year might he paying lld. Again, in the Police Force a policem:cn has to be of minimum height of 5ft. 9. There are any number of good men 5ft. 8i in height and I suppose the Police Force would not suffer U!1(tuly if we admitted men to the ranks who were within a quarter inch of the stipulated minir;num height. However, there would then be an agitation to admit some who are 5 ft. 8 and others who are 5ft. 7 and if we kept on admitting them we could go on indefinitely until we were admitting 'dwarfs and instead of having fine manly men like the hon. member for \V arwick in the Police Force we should have a force of dwarfs. There must be some line of demarcation. You do not intend week-end excursion rates to operate for journeys of hundreds of miles. The idea is to give people the advantage of a cheaper fare to encourage them to under­take the journey, which they might not other­wise entertain. That is the main purpose of an excursion fare.

I shall have. something to say later, if I can find the information, about the help we

1222 Supply. [ASSEl\IBL Y.] Supply.

give people in the \Vest. A concesc,ion is granted to the Country \V omen's Association that is appreciated by people in the ~West and this conceosion is not available to other people in the State.

The hon. member for Bremer, in a very analytical speech, dealt with some aspects of mihmy administration and the points to which he referred will receiYe consideration ut a later date.

The hon. member for Roma referred to a certain western allowance but l do not pro­PO''e to enter into a discussion on that, because it is a matter purely for the Indus­trial Comt of the State. Queensland is the nnly State where divisional allO\Vances and parities are embodied in State awards and if there is any need of an adjustment of the parity I am sure that he will find Mr. Boland, of the Australian \Vorkers' Union, anxious to make a joint approach ,with him for a rectification of the rate. I can assure him of the readiness with which the court is prepared to sanction agreements anived at amicably between employer and employee and if he on behalf of the United Graziers' Association got in touch with Mr. Boland, the secretary of the Australian Workers' Union, he should be able to correct the anomaly of which hP has spoken.

}Ir. Ewan: A good suggestion.

Jir. DUGGA~: I do not propose to say ren· nmeh a bout the remarks mal1c bv the hm;. member for Uhennside, becausE' I" dealt with the points he raised at an earlier stage. He spoke about the need for decentralisa­tion of receiving depots. We have become f<onscious in the Railway Department of the need to plan for the future railway devel· opment of this State. We have already acquired sites at N ewstead for extra siding accommodation and we have acquired land at Hamilton, which is fast becoming an indus­trial area \rherc \1'8 ~will establish a small ;~oods yard to lessen the demand on Roma Street. We have opened up Brunswick Street nn certain days of the week for goods for the North. "~Ne have got land at Northgate nwl Virginia that will permit us to expand. \\' e are negotiating for the acquisition of l.iG acres fo1< a marshalling yard at Zillmere. There is land at Normanby and when we fan there will be a transfer of some of the loco. yards from Mayne Junction to Virginia and Northgate, and we hope to be able to use part of the yard for the diesel-electric trains and for a repair shop for the electrical stock and make our own goods yards there. It will mean a subway or something of the kind. And we are examining the question of making Woolloongabba a loading point fer certain parts of the State.

No engineering problems are presented in these things; as a matter of fact, we could have a marvellous goods yard at Normanby but it would be necessary for us to acquire two or three tees of the Victoria Park golf links, part of the Boys' Grammar School, part

.of the Girls' Grammar School, and certain

other places. Even with the confidence that I have in such matters, and even though I have been accused of possessing a certain degree of impetuosity, I should be rather hesitant about putting before Cabinet a pro­posal to acquire those properties.

Certain other members have spoken, but I have been speaking longer than I intendelt and I shall reserve till later mv comments on \vhat they had to say. Ho1vever, I want to recapitulate what we are doing. I do not \Yant to be on the defensive all the time. and I throw back in the teeth of these irrespon­sible critics their statements that \Ye are lagging. I know of no other organisation in which the tempo of work has increased to the same cxt0nt as it has in the Railway Depart­ment. As a matter of fact, Mr. Lingard, who has been secretary of the department for many :years aml has been closely associated \vith various Commissioners, informed me not very long ago that he has 11ever known as much pressure to be applied on the admini­strative staff of the Raihmy Department as in recent times. \V e aTe doing everything we possibly can to improve the railways. \Ye have even been accused of going outside the ordinaTy ambit of the Railway Department iu order to get people to repair our rolling stock. ~~"or example, we have negotiatecl with Napier Bros. of Dalby and Walkers Ltd. of l\1ar~·­borough and other outside organisations in order to have repairs effected in the shortest possible time.

The I.eac1n of the Opposition said that as one swallow does not make a summer, so one air-conditioned train cloes not make an efficient system. Hmvevcr, nine air-conditione(\ trnins and about 90 coaches are being built at the presPnt time, and delivery of many of them will be made within the life of the present Parliament. The hon. member for Chcnnside and the hon. memhcr for Hinchin­brook are world travellers, and I can assure them both that when these trains come into operation they \Yill not have their superior in the Commonwealth of Australia.

ftoyermnent ))fembers: Hear, hear!

JUr. DUGGA~: They will contain every possible convenience and comfort. Hot and cold water will be available and they will be air-conditioned throughout. We have decided to use the head-on system of electric power, and the air·conditioning equipment will be contained in the leading car. The electric power will be of 240 volts, and instead of using outmoded generating sets we shall have the ordinary type of electric power. If any failure should occur, quick and easy adjust­ments can be made.

In regard to these magnificent trains in other parts of the world, I have conferred with Mr. \Vatson, who is the managing director of the Commonwealth Engineering Company, which js associated with the Budcl Car Com­pany of America, the largest builders of modern railway carriages in the world. We have asked those people to send us out certain layouts. Instead of getting back to the old

Supply. J9 Novrc~mrm.] Supply. 1223

system of having black leather and red leather, we are trying to inject some colour into our trains. We have asked the Budd Car Company to send out colour charts in an effort to get away from the ordinary standards that we see used in Government departments. In addition, we intend to give railway employees small prizes for naming these trains, one of which will operate from Brisbane to Cunna­mulla, iive from Brisbane to Cairns, one fro.m R'ockhampton to Longreach, and one from Townsville to Mt. Isa. For instance, the one from Brisbane to Cunamulla might be called the Maranoa Limited, or something of that kind, and they will all be painted in dis­tinguishing colours. Ii1stead of having the ordinary red and green, there will be some colour combination that is striking to the eye.

I <•an assure hon. members that we have done much to improve the rolling stock posi­tion of the State-the administration is working at a very high tempo. \Ve have been accused of being a socialist Go,·ernment, of having no regard for iinancial responsibility or for being unable to manage an under­taking efficiently. These iigures I have here will be the answer to that. The only iigures I can get at the moment for the percentage of working expenses to earnings-and that is the acid test of management-are to 30 June, 1949. For the period 1948-49, the percentage of working expenses to earnings in Queens­land 'vas 92.25 per cent., which was exceeded by only one other State, New South \Vales, with 90.11. In Victoria, where a Country Party is in control and has been stmggling for the last month to settle a railway problem, it was 103.14 per cent. and in South Australia, where there have been no Labour wreckers to spoil the picture, Mr. Tom Pln,dord, this paragon of v-irtue, is able to sho1v " Jtlling better tlmn 121.3 per cent., against 92.25 in Queensland. In Western Australia, where Mr. McLarty, also a Country Party man, is also in control, the iigure went to 128.52 per cent. In Tasmania, a State governed by Labour but one that has been troubled by balance of power and a pro­portional system of voting and where many reforms have been frustrated by an Upper House, the iignre was 141.86 per cent. In the Commonwealth railways it was 106.17 pe1' cent. Then ·we had the honourable member for Aubigny blowing and bleating last year about the New Zealand railways but the best they could do was 105.93 per cent. against 92.25 in Queensland. That factual record explodes the idea that Labour cannot manage any undertaking successfully.

I at'!mit that there are some deficiencies in our system. Some constructive suggestions have been pnt forward but I shall deal with them later on. It is onr desire to do the l1est we can with our system. I claim no particular credit for it, nor does Mr. Maloney -it is the result of team-work. The Govern­ment, the railway officers and employees throughout the State have clone everything possible to give service to the public and on every possible 'occasion I have inculcated in

their minds that they mnst serve the public. I have pointed ont that in the future other forms of transport will compete against the railway sen·ice ancl unless the Tailways can gi1·e sen-ice they will not be able to stand up to the competition. You ·cannot compel people by legislation to use an obsolescent svstem. vVe have built up a system that J{as gained Tespect and we are giving the people a service. I am proud to be a member of the Government who will continue to de,·elop this State. vVe have been pouring millions of pounds into our railway system and >Ye propose to pour in millions of pounds more to dev-elop this instrumentality, so that it will meet the needs of the State. I have ev·ery coniidence in this yonng continent of Australia, and particularly the State of Queensland, and I feel that the programme of development that has been laid clown by the various Government departments will meet the needs of the country, that population will grow, that the production will increase tremendously, and that we shall build up a railway syctpm that will give adequate ser­vice to the State.

\Ve are paying toda:'" for the mistakes and lack of attention in the past. The Govern­ment, the Commissioner al)d his staff and I are endeavouring to make every reasonable provision for whatever future development occurs in Queensland in order to see that the methods introduced into our present schemes will not lead to a repetition of the mistakes of the past. We need to strengthen the bridges for the heavier axle loads. We need to put in heavier tracks and rails, which ""'' find are necessary in so many places. There is not one activity in the department where we do not find the need for the injection of trcmenc1ous sums of moneY. All our wotkshops at Ipswich, Rockhampton and To1msville need rebuilding. Most of our ntil way bridges need strengthening to carry the heaYier axle loads, and there is need for other work, because of the lack of vision in the past. With the limited application of fund~ made available by the LoBn Council and with a fair clistrib~tion of those funds Ly the Treasurer and Cabinet, we are doing the best we can to make the railway system an efficient instrumentality.

I thank hon. members, on behalf of the Commissioner and officers of the department and myself for their suggestions and I aclmowledge the tremendous help that I had received from the Commissioner and other employees. It is some satisfaction to know tlrat despite individual criticism the Railway Department is regarded as an instrumentality that is doing a very valuable job for the State, and I am glad to know vre have the good will of hon. members in the great work 11·e are doing in effecting this modernisation and rehabilitation.

Progress reported.

The House adjourned at 9.29 p.m.