Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 29 JULY 1902

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Quf!stiun.r. [29 ,JULY.] TV ant of' Cm~fidt 11ce ]!fotion. 153

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

TcESJ>AY, 2(} JuLY, lfl02.

The SPEAKER (Hon. Arthur l\Ior·gan, Wm·wick) 'took the chair at half-pa•t :J u'clock.

QlTESTIONt:\. SALE o~· COLONIAL \YrNE.

sir. TOL:\1IE (Drapton anJ 'l'oo!com,<ba) asked the Attorney-General--

!. Does section six or an v othet· section of the Liquor Act of 1886 prohibit' growers tram selling on their own lH'ernbe,;:; more than 3 gallons of wine, manufa,ntured on their own vremiSe'il, nnlc1:0s they pay a n·:~·istration fee of £20 per annum~

3. Is he a·ware that the Crown Law Officers have in~titnted proeeedings in some districts under this Act, ~d.fter it ha~ been allower1 to l'E'tnain in aberancc for a period of :-:;ixteen yea rH~ ·

8. 1i\'Ill he, seeing that the Act has not pteriou:-;ly been applied to gmwers. (·am:lc notice of the intention to enforce i.t to be given in wine-pl'oducing distriets, ~o -r;hat men, helieving they are !e;Himatcly cnspo~mg of the prot1uce of their labour, may not be submitted to the llnmiliation and indignity of being eharge~l with breaking the law, and from being penalised for per­forming that wldeh up to the present tinw ha~ lJ(:en rt:~ardcd as a legal transaction~

The ATTOR?\EY-GE?\ERAL (Hon. Sir Arthur Rntledge, llfa·mnon) replied--

1. Ye~. :2. No,

:3. Illfglirif·~ are being mac1c into the matter now brought unde-r notice with a view to further legislation thereon; meanwlrile steps will be taken to lll'CYent _..my inconsiderate action.

AccouNTR OF TRA:>SFEHREIJ DEPAR"DIE:>T~.

:\Ir .. J. HAMILTON (Cook) a"ked the Trea-'i·Urer-

l. Is it true that tile Hon. IL ]<~. O'Connor ;-;nid in

~ly~i~~~~~~ Li~t~~:i~~~ ;:~d~~!~~p~~t~~~~l~;;ifd~~i;:~; ~~~:~~ detaUed statement of the receipts and expenditure of the department~ transferred to the Commonwealth ane1 tha.t surh statement had not been furnished to him:-

2. Is it true that the Premier made anY suf'h com-plaint:- -

:3. Is ::\Ir. O'Connor's statement true tlutt the informa­tion sought had been telcgra"(lhed within a wc~k of the receipt of the request from the Premier of Qneens­land?

The TREASl~RER (Hon. T. B. Cribb, Ipswich) replied~

1. I belim·e that it i~ so reported. ~. No: bnt the Trea~urer has asked for a detailed

statement oi receipts and expenditure o( tran;.;ferred departments.

3. The detailed information such as ·we usually pub­lish has not yet been reeeived. The Common-\vealth Tr~asurer did Stmd approximate figures, subject to adJnstmeut, a~ soon as possible. I feel sure that he '\Vill supply detail~ a~ -soon as the information i!:' in llls posses::; ion.

PAPER. The following paper, laid on the table, was

ordered to be printed :~Correspnndence respect­ing condensation of n'ports of parliamentary debates, and reduction of salarie, of the reporting staff.

SUSPE~:-\ION OF t:\TA~DIKG OHDERS.

On the motion of the PREMIER (Hon. R. Philp, Towns-vi/le) it was formally resolved~

That so mnch of the ~t.anding Orders be su!<pended, tor this daY. as ·will admit of the immediate constitution of the Co~mmittee of Wa,'s and Means, and of tbe recei\'lng; ot' rr8olution~ froln the Committees of Supply and Ways and .:\leans on the same day on which they shall have va~sed in tho~e eommittces; also of the passing of nu Appropriation Bill through all its. stage:;; in one day.

WA~T OF CO~FIDEXCE JYlOTIOX. RESU}1PTION OF D~;RATE.

Mr. HA \VTHORK (!Cno!lfltra) said: I wish to say a few words on the amendment of the leader of the Opposition, mainly because I do not desire to g·ive a silent mte on a matter of this importance. I do not intend to detain the House at any very great length, nor do I intend to give hon. members the a,rray of figures they have already had from what I may term financial experts on both sides. The leader of the Opposition alleges that these proposals are unsatisfactor~-. I am perfectly certain that no propo>als e,mld be brought for­ward by this side which would be satisfactory to the other side, nor do I think that any proposals rnacle bv the Treasurer would be entirely satis­factory" to every member of the House. Per­sonally I may ,r,y that in their entirety these proposals are not sati•factory to me, but I intend, when the proper tnue come;:;. to get them altered, if possible, to suit my ,-iew•. I certainly shall not assist <.tt present in e1ubarras8ing the Govern­ment by putting them in a corner before they have had an opportunity nf fully enunciating their views or giv·in~ an example of what they really· intend t<' do. ?\either tbt leader of the Opposi­tion nor anv of his followers have "hown us any­thing tlutt \Vonld be more satisfactory than the Go­v,.rnment proposals. They have not attempted in any way to show their pr·,,posals, if they have any, and until they do so I say distinctly that they are treating us as wanting in intelligence in expecting us to follnw them blindly and agree with them on their mere ipse dixit that the financial proposals of the Guv·ernmant are un­satisfactory. A great deal has been said on both sides as to the mandate of the people. Speaking for myself, I went before the ele<:tors on the m~.nifP ... t.o rlPlivPl~P.fl hv thP. Pr~mier. \vhich out· ii~~~d-retrenchment at1d eeonomy cornbined with a judicious expenditure on pul)lic works. On that manifesto the people of Queensland decided to give the pre,ent party in power another trial. Ques­tions of the past were not hrought up, or if they were it was considered that the Government had possibly seen the en :>r of their ways and determined upon outlining a policy of retrench­ment and economy to show tbat they intended to retrieve the position aH far as they possibly could. The present position has been broughn about mainly by two causes~first the drought, and secondly, not so much federation as the vagaries of the Commonwealth Governn1ent, who have shown that they have been wanting in ability and that they have not had the interests of Queensland at heart. The result has been a great dislocation in our finances. There is no doubt that of the two factors the drought has been the greaC.er, but I consider that even it may have its advantageous les"ons. It proves to ns

154 Want qj' Co1Jfidenre Motion. [ASSEJ-fBLY.J TVant of Om,jideiu'e Motion.

that we must in the future rely more upon our own reRonrces. U n]e,s in times of plenty we secure resen·es of water and fodder we must always, when lean years come, go begging. \Ve all know that any institution that does not attempt to tlllild up a reserve fund is unsound. The time 1nust cmne when a reserve i~ want~d. So it itJ with the nation, and if we learn this lesson, and in times of plenty build up a reserve, our future must be success. \Ve must also see that those persons who are put in power fLre men of financial ability, and I do not. see that there are any mem­bers on the other side who have had the necessary experience in finance to enable them to come over and take charge of the colony's financec;. F nless those in power exercise incessant watchfulness we will meet with disaster. We are a'l aware that the customs and excise receipts have been taken from ns by the Federal Parliament. Had the :Federal Government had the reHpon"ibility of having to meet the State expenditure, the tariff which they have ir,flicted in (lueensland would haVf• been very different. I ,;ay unhesi­tatingly that the tariff we ought to have bad should have been one which would have left us as nearly as possible iu 1 he same position as we were in before federation, and if that had been done a considerable portion of our difficulties would have been avoided. To sum up the quesLion of federation. I consider that the Prime Minister and tho~e a!4sociatf·d with him haYe abus<>d 1,lwir politie:tl trust, and I say that if ~lcustralia bad an opportunity to­tnotTOilir of speaking •.)ver again the result \vould be thfLt the whole federal scheme would be repealed. (Hear. hear~ Xo, no 1 ) )Jow as to retrenchment. I think members of this House and the people generally are of opinion that retrenchment both in Parliament and the public

1

service is necessary, anfl that if 've :::pend bor­rowed money it should only be upon reproductive works. \V e arf· bound to ha\ e eonsiderable difficulty in the future with the Federal Parlia­ment. The-y haY~ shown an intention to increase expenditure, and at, least one loan has been fore­shadowed, so that it le impoi<;;ibletn £,,recast what is likely to be the result within the next 'ewyears. The only thing we c;m do is to face the circum­stances, and we n1u8t try and bring our expendi­ture into line with the means we have at our dispos<.tl. 'l'bere are certrdn items that we cannot possibly do away with--such e"s schools. police, renewal works. and things of that kind. The question is whether we shall go on in the same way as we have been doing lately, increasing our expenditure and looking to the future to tide us over our ditliculties, or whether we should not hasten slowly as has been done in former years and reduce the expenditure considerably. This all involves a <[nestion of policy. The bon. memuer for Fortitude V alley made " very strong asHertion when he Haid that (~ueens­bnd was in a position of ncttional insolvenc,·. I deprecate very strongly assertions of that" sort and I say he cannot believe it, for Queensland ha"S rt very nln:1bln asset in her railways :tnd public work;. Our mctiomtl debt is ahout £37,000,000, and privute weaLh about I

£144,000,000, or £287 per head; secmHl only in the nations of the world to Grnt Britain, which is £312 per head. \Ve in (lueensland in this respect are ahead of ~ ew Z:ealand, where the asset is only £2ti(; '"er bead, and of J:\ew South Wales, where it is only £2ii'l per h< ad, and we are far ahead of France, Germany, and several other countries in this respect. Then our Savings Bank deposits have increa~ed dur­ing the last ten years by £2,247,:)01-tbe highest in the Conl'l1unwea1th. Then, again, our imports ha:·e increased by £2H7,5-15 and our exports by ,_.;~,i",~fj7, so in the face of all that no one can r,n:iJ:• :-_·ty thnt t[ueensland is in thP

position of national insolvency. Then when an as<ertion of that kind comes from a m ern her of this House it is supposed to carry ~neat weig-ht. The hon. member could not have believed what he said. He seems to have faith in the State, for he is calling for tenders for extensive altera­tions to his premises in George street. So he is either wilfully misleading the House and the people--

The SPEAKRR: Order! Mr. HA \VTHORN: Or he is not saying

what be knows to he a fact. Now I shall go into a few details.

Mr. LESINA (Glcrmont): I rise to a point of order. Is the hon. member in order in saying that a member of this House has wilfully and deliberately made misstatements with a view of injuring the credit of the colony, and getting hi;; statement into Hansard in the absence of the hon. member fnr Fortitude Valley?

The SPEXKER: If tbe hon. meml:>er !nade that statement it is not in order. I thought I beard the hon. member make a remark with regard t0 the hon. member for Fortitude Valley that 'truck me as being somewhat unparlia­ment:try, and I called him to order.

:Ylr. 'HA \VTHORN: If I have exceeded my rights I will withdraw the expression. I think the 'l'reasurer has made a mistake in the amount he anticipates to receive from stamp duties­£140,000. I felt certain when the Act wa~ instituted that it would be evaded, and his admi"'iun )Jroves I was correct. I hope be will bring in a Bill which will be fair, and which will prevent any attempt to evade such duties. R1 territorial revenue, the Treasurer's t<)tin1at(· is biwecl on ctn early terlllination of the drought, a.nd I say that directly the drought is terminated, not only shall we have an opportunity of dis­posing of our surplus land. but of gettir'g in the £91,000 back rents, which will have a ma.terial effect in helping us out of our diffi .. culties. I con1e now to the question of railway rates, and I see the Treasurer cxpec~s to get an increase of £130 ii72. This question lms oPen very well debated, and I think we should give the :\Iini"ter at least three month,' trial befnre we attempt to deal with such a question. :'\ o doubt his reeponsible atlvisers have looked in tu the question ; the i\1inister rnnst rely on their advice, >tnd I do not think we ohould force his hand for three or six montbo. or that any attempt should be made to reduce these rate" without good cause. \Ve have heard " good deal about the D:trling Downs combination; but my opinion is that if

they endeavour to force the hand& [ 4 p. m.] elf the Minister, they are not doing

the correct thing. The railway rates on the Darling Downs can fairly stand a good deal put on compared to what they bav• been in tl1e past, e"pecially if produce brings such splendid pric< s as h:tve been obtained lately·-· when we see lucerne chaff fetching £13 a ton and m:tlze {jR. a bn~hel, wherea.s :-t few years ago chaff only brought £2 a t"n an~ maize 2s. a bushel. I do not quite agree w1th the Minister for R:tilways in taking nfi the prh·ilege rate><. I am told that it will mean a loss of £7,000 per annum tothe Railway Department, with<lUt any compensation. \Vith respect to the retrenchment of the civil servants, I feel that they nre about to be treated very badly : and I hope that in framing the estimates of L•trench­ment, the n1inistry Will have regard to those senccnts who are ectrning less than £100 per annum-ma.ny of whom are men with large families and have had their no,es to the grind­stone for years. Retrenchment was imposed on the civil servants in 189B, but even then the time., were not so bad for the civil servants lCs they are to-cl:ty. [The PRE:IlU:R: \Vorse ~J I do

Want qf CoJ~fidence J![otion. [29 JuLY.] Want q(' Co71/idence J]£otion. 155

not think so, ber cmse in 1'3!!3 the prices of r commodities were far less than they are now. ' Commodities thnt are absolute necessaries are to-day 50 per cent. dearer than they were in 1893; and since 18[)3 the purchasing power of money has been reduced by one-third; ls. Gd. to-day does not purchase as much as ls. would purchase ten years ago. I agree with the suggestion of the hon. m ern ber for Toowong and the hon. member for Cunning ham that we should sell more land rather than retrench the civil servants. I am very pleased to see by the papers to-day that those who are to suffer special retrenchment are not going to be brought under the income tax as well. I am also very pleased to see that His Excellency the Governor has offered to come under the retrench­ment, and allow £750 per annum to be taken off his salary--{Hear, hear !)-but I do not think we ought to do that. It shows a very excdlent spirit on his part-a spirit that we, as members of this House, ought to be anxious to emulate. On the question of the income tax, which is estimated to produce £100,000 this year, I would likP to know where the question of responsibility ~nd liability of federal civil servants to pay the mcome tax has been considered. If it is found that they are exempt, it will be most unfortunate for those civil servant,, who do not happen to be under the I<'ederal Government. I notice on the Estimates a vote of £15,000 for immil'(ration. I think that_o~ght to be increa<ed. (Hear, he'tr! and Opposition laug·hter.) \Ve can never develop queensland with the handful of pqmlation we have here, and our policy 'hould be to bring in as many people as we can, especially people with capital, to assist us in exploiting our resources. In connection with this question we have to face another difficulty-that is, that South Africa is going to be far more attractive to the people of this State than any other portion of Australia. The exodus has already begun, and I an.1 sorry to sav that our young men of muscle wrth some means-men who would be bound to make good colonists-are on their way to South Africa in shoals. In that way we are losing both producers and consumers. In con­clusion, a few d:>ys' rain would complotelv altet' the situation in Clneensland, and though the outlook is gloomy, it is not altogether unsatis­factory, because there is sufficient •Pgregated wealth in this State to ensure stability. With ~he ret_urn '?f normal eeasons our producing mdustnes wrll recover, and the whole question will readjust itself. \V hat is wanted is a strong intelligent financial grasp of the situation. and an abstention on the part of the I<'ederal Govern­ment fr;n:' imposing on us further heavy burdens, or depr1vmg us of further means of taxation. For tlle. reasons I have given I intend to give the Mmistry an opf <,1rtunity of te"ting their financial proposals ; :md I do not intend to do anything now to embarrass them, whatever I may do later on. I say that the present is not an opportune time to vote for an amendment like this, and I intend to vote ~gainst the ~mendment. (Hear, hear!) ~ Mr. KE:";NA (Bon-en): I do not intend to delay the House to any great extent on this occasion, but there are a few points I would like to touch on in connection with the financial position of the colony and the proposaJs brought forward by the Government for its resuscitation. It is claimed that the Government in bringing forward these financial measures ttre acting on a mandate received from the country. l have read the speeches which we>re delivered by the leader of the Government in various parts of the colony at the time of thre el<ection, and I have not been able to find much in them which would lead people to believe that any scheme of re­trenchment so drastic as that before the House

was contemplated by the Government. I do not see that these proposals have any measure of sympathy or support from the consti­tuendes, and I do not see how the Government can lmve any mandate from tlw people under thA existing electoral conditions of ~.lueensland. I find that in this State only 20 per cent. of the total population exercise the franchise. If we take 5 per cent. of the enrolment for plnral votes, that leaves only 19 per cent. of the people excercising the franchise. How, then, can the Government claim a mandttte from the other 81 per cent. of the population? There are in Queenshtnd iH,2Hi males who are competent to vote, and who would have votes if they lived in some of the other States, but they are not allowed to exercise the franchise. In Victoria, 2+ per cent. of the total male and female population exercise the franchise ; in South Australia, -12 per cent.; in Tas1nania, 23 per cent.; and in \Vestern Australia, 80 per cent.; while in Queensland only l!J per cent. have the right to vute. Yet the Government claim to represelJt the feeling of the people in their financial propoBals. The way to ascertain that feeling is that which is to be adopted with regard to the reading of the Bible in State schools, and that is by a referendum. \Vere this method employed, the people would give a decisive answer to the proposals of the Government. Not only do I think there is no mandate from the country for these dmstic proposals, but I think they ttre not necessary. If anything like reason­able control over the expenditure had been exer­cised during the last four or five years, or since the present Ministry came into power, the necessity for bring·ing forw,u·d nJCh proposals would not have exi,,ted. The main cause of the present trouble is tha,t the more money the Government get the more they fling away. The Government are weak, and constitutionally incapable of tightening the string- of the public pur.s,_. One has only to look abroad at the recent actions of the Government for evidence of their exctravagance. From the balcony of this building we can see a dredge worth some £60,000 lying idle, presumably because it is more profitable to anchor it there than to have it at work dredging the river. \Ve hari another illustration of their business ability in the cr>e of Cobb and Co., who, having found that a contract for the conveyance of mail' did not turn ont a, they had expected, triecl to force the Federal Government to pay.them £1,500 a month dul'ing the interval of the drought. 'rhe hon. member for Balonne was the leadin;~ agitator in this business, and he acted on th~e ad,·ice of the Premier, from whiCh fact we m"y infer th&t if the Post and Telegraph Department had belonged to this State it would h'we paid thttt £1,500 a month while the drought lasted. Then in George street, in spite of the fact that our land revenue has been falling off for many years, an expensive building i,< beiug erected for 't LamL< 0 flke at a cost of £1 +0,000-an ab"rlutely unnec><''Ssary expenditure. The Central Railw.cy Station, and tank engines, and th' Seaforth Es'ate are further evidences of the extraY.tgance of thl.s Goverrnnent. I point to these matters as illustrating the cans«' which have led to the present deplorable <:nnditiun of affairs, and to the alleged neces~ sjty for instituting the.s(~ new. measures of ta.xation. Hon. rnetnbers OP!JOS1te are per­petually prating about their ''business" capacity. 'l'be allegation is that because they have m~tnaged, accidentally or othenvi:-;e, to '"..:cure a little more mnnev than members on this side of the Hous,c, thev 'are to that extent superior busi­ness men. \Ve.have an illnstration of their ''busi­ne'8 capacity., in connection with the Queens­land ;\rational Ihnk. In th:tt bank we have a large su:m of money, smnething over £1,000,000,

156 Want qf CoJ~fidence ~wotion. [ASSEMBLY.] 1Vant qf Confidenl"e 31otion.

for which the institution is paying a le•ser rate of mterest to the Government t,han we are pay­ing for the same money to the London stockholder. Again, down at \Vynnum, in the electorate of pulimba, there is a little creek, or sewer, running mtot!Je sea. A few pleasure boats occasionally use 1t, and prior to the election the Government sent a dr<-dge down there, and it has been there since dredging that little sewer. \Vhen asked what is the purpose of this work. the residents in the [Jlace say, "Oh, it i• used by. pleasure boats." The Sunday befnre last I counted seven pleasure boats there, and I believe there are also a few fishermen. I l~;we hon. members to judge for themselves what the meaning is of sending a dre~ge to a place like that just he fore an election, wh1le other places are starving for the want of dredges. One has only to go to several Mini,terial electorates to find ample evidence of the way in which Government money is squandered._ Take Roma. At last election" the Attorney-General boasted of the amount of Government money he had had s:•ent there; amongst other items was £7,000 for a courthouse which is the lau"·hina­stock of the legal fraternity. I hold that'"a G~­,·ernment which goes on spending money in this way can only land itself in one condition ulti­mately. It is not our revenue which has been a' fault, because, as far as I can judge, it has been expanding very consistently. The only fault we have to find is with the expenditure. Instead of proposing to extract more mnney from the unfortunate taxpayers, the duty of the Go­vernment is to curtail expenditure. Now. if there is one thing- more than another of which this Government is proud it is its land repur­chases, and I h tve taken the trouble to ol>tain fro•n the Lands Office a few figures which ma~· n;terest hon. member,. I find that altogether mneteen estates have been repurchased. The Act requires that in the report on the 8state to be purchased the valuation of the local authority has to be stated. In the case of North Toolhiu·ra consisting of 10,!183 acres, the divis[onal board valuation was £1 l'is. per acre: it was pur­chased by the Governrnn1t at £2 ; difference in price, 3s. per acre; total difference, £1,647 llo. RoBewood Estate, G,l60 acres valued hy the local authority at £1 Id. an a~:re, purchased at £3 12s. 6d. an acre ; difference in price, 1::> l:!s. an acre ; total difference, ,21G,!l:JO fis. ::>d. Clifton No. 1, 9,226 acres, local authority valuation £3 3s. 3d., purchased at £2 lils. ild. ; difference, 7s. 2d. an acre; total difference, £3,305 19s. Cryna Estate, 3, H13 acres, loc,ll authority valuation £1 3.;. :-1, d. per acre, pur­chased at £2 10s. an acre : difference, £1 lis. !Jd. an acre ; total difference, £5,313 lls. 11rl. Headingtun Hill Estate, 36,702 acres, valued by the local authority at £2 ls. 2d. an acre, purchased at £~ 4s. ; rlifference, 2s. 10d. an acre ; total difference, £5, 1\J!J 19s. Glengallan Estate No. 2, valued by tbe local authority at £2 10s. id, an acre, purcha"ed at £3 1!Js. 7d. for block one, and £3 iis. for block two. [The SECRETARY FOR AGHIC'GLTFRF.: The price was assessed by the Land Court; in all cases.l The Land Court assessed the Seaforth Estate, so that I have not much re •pect for their assessment. In those two blocks the difference in price was £1 1". 1 d. an BC re, and the total difference was £H,878 3s. 4rl. Fitzroy Park Estate, '),203 acres, local authority v,;lnation £1 an acre, purchased at £1 10s.; difference per acre, 10s.; total difference, £2,601 10->. Pine Lands, local authority valuation £1 :l•., purchased at £2; difference per acre, 15s.; total difference £2,702 5s. Beauaraba :Estate, val ned by the local authority at £1 7s. Hd. per acre, purchased at £1 12s.; difference in price, 4s. lld. per acre; total difference, £1,827. Seaforth Estate, vc.lued by the local authority at 12s. 6d. per acre, pur·

chased at £3 13s. per acre ; difference per acre £3 Os. Gd.; total difference, £18,748 19s. Clifton No. 2, 'alued by the local authority at £2 · 2s., purchased at £2 12s.; difference in price per acre, 10e.; total difference, £3, \ill 10s. Cliftnn No. 3, valued by the l"cal authority at £1 10s. 4rl. per acre, purchased at £2; difference in price, \Js. 8d. per acre; total difference, £273 lls. Lake Clarendon. in which the member for Lockyer was indirectly interested, consisted. of 13,9lf) acres; it was valued by the local authonty at ltis. 2d. per acre, purchased at £2 per acre ; difference in price, £l3s. lflo.; total difference, £16,583 4s. Sd. Gowrie Estate, 4:J,l!5tl acres, valued bv the local authority at £2 10s. per acre; purchase-d at £4 pe~ acre ; difference m price, £110s. per acre ; total difference, £63, fl3/. Durun­dur, Homewood, and Mount Kilcoy Estates--

The SPEAKER: The hon. gentleman is entering into an elaborate argument. I presume he intends to apply it to the question before the House. I would [Joint out that while he was endeavouring to show that the Government were responsible for the purchase of certain estates he was quite in order; but he is now referring to estates which were bought on the authority of an Act of Parliament passed last session. In commenting unfavourably on the action of the House he is reflecting on Parliament, and is therefore not in order. ·

Mr. KENNA: I only want. to point out the difference between the local authorities' valuation and the price paid by the Government for these nineteen estates, which amounts to £212,049. Either the local authorities are wrong in their valuations or the Government have been wrong in the price they have paid fo,- theee lands. !'o my mind tbe conclusion is clear that the tamt which attaches itself to the Seaforth Estate extends to every one of these repurchased estates. \Vith regard to the two recent deficits, there seems to be some unanimity on the other side that they are clue to droug-ht and fe?eration. So.me hon. members on the other s1de, m backmg up that assertion, adopted a favourite mode of argnment in taking the rnaximnrn number of sheep and cattle in this State for a number of yPars past ancl the number here now, then making the deduction and saying, "The drought iK re:-;tJonsible for these lossee, ana for the Treasury deficits." Now, I have t:.ken the trouble to find out what ourlosses in sheep and cattle have been in ten years, and the result is fairly interesting. According to "Coghlan," the maximum number of sheep in Australia was in 18!Jl, and enr since then there have been decreases. New South \Vales was responsible for a greater portion of the clecline, lmt he says that very large decreaseR have also taken place in Queens­land and South Australia. The caoe of C:lueenslancl, therefore, is not an isolated pheno­menon, for we find that the decline in sheep and cattle has been going- OH all over Aus­tralia. In 1891 there were 106,000.000 sheep in Australia, and in 1899, G9,000,000-a total loss of 37,000,000. New South \Vales contributed 21,000,000 to the loss, Queensl"!'nd 11,000,000, Victoria 3,GOO,OOO, South Australia 240,000, and Tasmania showed a decrease of 19,000. \Vest Amtralia showed an increase of 46fJ,OOO, and New Zealand an increase from 1l:l91 to 1902 of 784,000. It cannot be claimed that the drought is responsible for this decline in the other colonies. Then cattle have also been declining, in somewhat the same proportion. In Australia in 1891 there were 10,000,000 cattle, and in 1901, 8,000,000-a decrease of 2 000,000. The decrease in Queensland was 2:114,000, in New South Wales fi32,310,_in,Yic­toria there was a gradual decrease, as m bouth Au,tralia, and in Tasmania there was a decrease of 25,000. Although I do not mean to say that

1Vant qf Confidenre Jfotion. [29 JULY.J ~Want cif Col'!fidence 1lLotion. 157

we have not suffered in Queensland very severely from the drought, still l hold that the figures I have given will not warrant anyone saying that the drought is entirely responsible for the losse> in these directions. I find that our flocks were at their maximum in 1891, and it is very ;;igniticant that there has been a decre"se in our flocks in reeponse to the decrease in the price of wool. The prices of wool fell from 18!ll to 189!), from 18!)9 they recovered very rapidly. an:! they fell back in 1900 and 1901, and in 1902 they recovered slightly. There was a wool boom in 18!Jl, and after that the capital that was put into wool was gmdually withdrawn. Another thing that hears on the decrease in the number of stock is that within the last ten yen·;; all over the colonies gigantic meatworks are springing up, where they slaughter large numbers of sheep and cattle for export purposes. Last year over 1,000,000 sheep and about 500,000 cattle were slaughtered. Then there has been a demand tor frozen lamb, and this means that there has been a drain on the natural increase of our flocks. 'rhen there has been the growth of agriculture within the last ten years-that is to say, that on the Darling Downs and elsewhere agriculture has superseded sheep production. All these are the fact""' Lhat we must take intocon,.;ideration when dealing with the decline in our shAep and cattle. Cilot only has there been a decline in the quantity of wool exported from queen~land, but there has been a decline in the quantity imported into the United Kingdom. To say that the decline in the quantity of stock is altogether due to the drought, and that the drought is responsible for the deficit is, in my opinion, to argue in a loose and illogical manner. The other argument is that federation is responsible for all our troubles. I have a very vivid idea that prior to federation this Government very greatly increased the e'<penditure in those departments which the Federal Government was to take over; and it seems to me that this Government in doing so thought they might be able to palm off this increased expenditure on the rest of Australia. But the Federal ({overnment made them stand the racket of their increaserl expenditure, and then there was a howl on the part of this Govern­ment for decreased expenditure. The defence expPnrli.turP of this colony increased alarmingly prior to thP department being taken over, anrl when the Premier discovered that thio colony would have to pay its propvrtion of that expendi­tul'f', there was immediately a cry for a decreasP. And who was it that induced the people of this colony to go in for federation-advised the people that they could make no mistake in voting for federation? It was the very Govern­ment that are now calling federation all sorts of names. I took the trouble to find out some of the advice which members of the Government offered to the people on the verge of federa­tion. [The hon. member quoted extracts from the Conrier of 30th August, 31st August, and 15th August, 1899, to show how the Premier had advocated federation at Brook­field, at Tonwong, and from a lorry at the corner of Adelaide and Albert streets; also from the Co,,·ier report of a meeting addressed by the Ho111e Secretary at Stanthorpe on the 29th August. in favonr of federation ; also from a speech in favour of federation by the Secretary for Railways, as reported in the Cou1·ier of 29th August; also from a speech by the hon. member for Brisbane North, Hon. E. B. Forrest, in favour of ferleration, a; reported in the Courier of 30th August ; and from a speech made by the Attorney·General advocating federation, as re­ported in the Cou-rier of 8th August.] It was arguments like those that led us into federation. Now we come to the question of the railway,. It is the Railway Department that is responsible

for all the trouble-that is to say, there have been big deficits in the Rail W'LY Department, and those deficits are to be made up hy increasing the railway 'ates and by levying incre<> -ed taxation. The revenue from the railways has ""t fallen off, hut has, f:enerally speaking, showu "'' increase. But whi!8 the revenue has remain· .I all right, the expenrliture has increased from .£581,000 in 1895 to £.1,057,000 in 1901. Thi; increase in expen­diture is n .. t. due to new lines, because although the mile><ge btts increased only Hi per cent., the expenditure has increased by RO per Ct'.nt. [Mr. :'\1cMARTER: \V as t!Jere not "n increase in wages?] No, there wa~ no incrPaRe in the railway men'ti wages. The increased exvet1ditnre was simplv due tn thH f-Xtrava.g::tnCfl of the Government, and to make up tor the deficit which has been cau.<ed by that, the Government have clapped on exorbi­tant rail way rates. I represent one of those con­stituencies where the freights have been increased to the cruel extent of 50 per cent. Although the Secretary for Railways has brought forward figure; to prove> his statement that the increased rates aro producing increased revenue, which we cannot disprove, and which we are hound to accept, yet I hold that the result of three weeks' working is not sufficient to enable us to judge as to the effect of the new rates. Let the hon. gentleman bring furw11rd figures at the end of three months to show what has happened during that period, and we shall then be in a better position to arrive at a conclusion on the matter. I sincerely believe that if we want to increase the rev~nue from our railways we should decrease and not increase the rates and fares. From tbe report of the Railway Commissioner for New z,,aland for 1901 I find that the value of the conces­sions granted by the department in that colony was equivalent to a rebate of £75,000, and the results of those concessions exceeded the ::\Iinister's most sanguine expectations. There was an increase of 77:5,309 in the number of passengers and of 1!l,5Rfl in season tickets, which was a record increase, and the increased revenue from these sonrces was £29,957. The gross revenue for the .ve~r was £1,727,236, and the net revenue was £599,3H0, incrpa,ses over the previous year of £103,3-±5 and £27,K5\l respectively. The gross revenue exceeded the t'stimate by ,£267,23fl. The tot~! revenue derived from goods an<l live stock traffic was £1, 10!J,OOO, an incr8ase of £fi!J,1G6 on the receipts for the previous year. 'l'hf: expense,; of working were £1, 12'7,000, or ()ii per cent. of revenue, and the Commiseioner says that, notwith,tanding that every effort has been made to cnpe with the grow­ing traffic on the railways, it was only with the greatest difficulty that the trade of the colonv had been carried on. The value of the conce·~,ions made since 189.~ is estimated at £420,000, and the Government contemplate making further concessions in regard to rates, including those for small lots of dairy produce, to the extent of £30,000. And I noticed from a report in the CO?trie-r the other day that the Government of New Zealand propose still further concessions this year, the value of which is esti­mated at £40,000, in wool freight•, passenger fares, dairy produce, and so forth. InNewi:\omh Wales concessions were n1ade in rega.rrl to various com­modities during the year 1901, and it i, now proposed to apportion part of the surplus on the year's work every year in t.he reductirm of rate~ to the extent of £50,000 "r £60,000. ThP Secretary for Rail ways has told me that some of the Northern lines are not feeders. That remark does not apply to the B•JWen line. I have it in writing from Messrs. Bergl and Co. that during the last threP- yP>trs the Bowen line has in cattle alone ferl the Northern Rail way to the extent of £7,000 per annum. I should like to know, then, why lines in the far Cif orth, which are

158 1¥ant f!f Co,zfidence }ilotion. [ASSEMBLY.] Want qf Confidenee 3iotion.

mostly producing lines, are penalised, while the Snntbern rail ways are not? The railway from South Brisbane to Cleveland has lost every year during the past five years, "nd yet, as far as I know, there has been no increase of fares to Wynnmn and :\1auly. Yet the people who nse the Bowen and Oooktown lines are called upon to make good the loss on the railways by paying fen incree.>e of 50 per cent. in the rates. There has also been a sleadv loss on the line from North Ipswich to 'i'ivoli, from Brisban» Valley .Junction to Esk, from \Var>· ick to Killarney, from Kilkivan Junclion to Kilkivan, from JYiungar Junction to Degilbo, from .IYlayne tD Enog~era, and fron1 Emerald to Olermont. lYir. UAii!PB!lLL: \Vhat about the Bowen line? Doe,; it show a perpetual loss"?] Yes, and it i· .. likely to do "o while the pre> ent incornpetency in regard to adrr1inlstration exists. If that railwav were ex~ended tu the Heid River the Governnl~'nt would haven gmtrantee ugainst 1osA, and it would not~ as some have said, t<:-.ke away the trade from the l'{orthern Hailway, but ·would have a trade of its own. Another item in connection with the rail way deftcit is the fact tbat, while the Government ha,·e huilt suburban line,, they have allowed the electric tra1n Hy::;;:tem to secure the s;uburtan trai.iic. vVhy should" e allow that source of re,·enue to

pass out of our hands? I believe the [5 p.m.] most luc1·at.i ve portion of the railway

systern in New Sonth \V ales is the suburban tro.ffic, and we should have retained our traffic instead of handing it over to the tram­way company, which I notice hst year made a profit of £42,000. I do not know how much has been extracted from the rail way revenue by that company, but I find that this year Albion ~tation records 30,721 passengerR less than last year, Olayfield 29,6:11 less, and :B:agle ,T unction 16,43li less. On all hands we find thfet the Railway Department has been g-ro"sly mis­managed, fend that while the expenditure has increased by SO per cent., the m1leage has only increased 16 per cent. Our railway system is indeed a monument of stupendous inc0mpetency. Whv should we continue to construct !"ail­way's between ports when our. b_ack country renuins undeveloped and lang-mshmg for want of railway corrnnunication '! V\Thy should we run railways from Bnndaher,; to Gladstone, lYL-ry­borough to Bundaberg-, and Brisbane to Gympie when we have lands like those of the Blackall Ranae and the splendid laud>< in the Bowen db­trictthat only requin rail ways to open them up and settle hundreds and thousands ot people npon them? It is time n,lso that we c!·ied a halt about expending money on railways tu droug·ht-stricken countrv. The latest extensions from Hugben­den a;;_d Charleville ha,,e Leen dead losses, and I think the conditions out there do not warrant us in investing large surr1t-; of 1noney ln the construction of lines to country vvhjch is liable to Experience such deplort•.ble seasons. \Ve oug-ht to show those people who wish to go out into the wilderneos a record of. the rain­fall, and say to them: "}f you go out there you must take your chances, for any man who goes out there must knuw that drought is the normal condition of things, and if he builds his plans upon good seasons he is doomed to disa]Jpoint­ment. I do not think we are jnst.lfied In con. structing railway" into the inhospitable wilder­nr·~s \Vhile so tnuch gocd land on the coa~t is lying idle. \Ve might well take a lesson in rail.:c1..y rnanagement fn)ln New Zen,land, whose Premier in a recent inter\'iew pointed out that the policy of the Government was to continue to O\Vn the railways, and as revenue increased to steadily reduce the rates, always bearing in mind that the rail ways were the servants of the people and should be run in their interests. I

think also that the betterment system should be applied to the construction of all new rail ways, and that the Government should reap some of the unearned increment arising through the expenditure of public money. In the old country that system is applied even to public buildings, and mig-ht well be applied here. In looking through the Commissioner's report another thing which strik~, me is this : Every year contracts are let for the supply of large quantities of coal. If a private company ownPcJ the milways the first thing they woulu do would be to acquire their own coalmine. There are ample coal lands round ttbout l3owen, Gladstone, and Rock­hampton. The prospector pays £12 10s. a square mile, n,nd when he discovers coal he paye a royalty of 3d. a ton for ten years, and 6d. a ton for the balance-twenty-one years. The Rail­way Department, while buying coal from these companies, are really paying bad< the rent and rovalty cumbmed. It would pay this country well, instead of being fleeced at every turn by contractors, to establish its o.vn railway •::on,l­rnine. In New Zealand they are spending .£80, 000 in establishing a ::ltate coalmine for the supply of all rertuirements of the State departments. If we got our coal

! cheaper, we co<1ld give the benefit of the s11ving to the pruducer, and if we had a eoalmine of our uwn the actual cost of wag-es and carriage would be the only @St. Now in regatd to the retrenchment scheme. There is one proposal I have a decided objection to, and which I enter my strongest protest against; that is in regard to .Hansanl. It is of vital importance to every member that there should be no curtailment of the records of uur deliberations. It is a right which every elector and taxpayer has to kno\V exactly what is being said and done i1ere, and the one official record m regard to which there is a guarantee of accuracy and trllth is the Hansard record. If we curt"il Hansard, we shfel! be throwing our­se! ve; iltill more into the hands of the news[,apet·s, fend we all know that newspapers are run in the intere'its of a particular brand of politics, and the public only get from them a g-arbled versi•m of what tranepires here. I think themenempluyed on Hamard are being sweated, because I know something of the onerous work performed by these n.en, and I know that the present staff is inadertnate. The reductions made in the salaries of the Hansard employees are also unw.1rrauted, inasmuch as they are affected much more se,·erely than other civit ~ervants. The amount, I notice, allowed for Hcmsarcl this year is .£2,307, and thttt is lower than has ever been allowed here sinc~J 187H-1880, except in 1894-5. I notiee that the Hansarcl iu Xew South \ValPs costs £H,!l67; in Victoria, £3,310; fur Somh Australia there are no figures available; in \Vestern Australia, .£:3,135; in New Zealand, £3,440; and in Queensland, only £2,307. Our Hansa1·cl staff has been curtailed to a g-reater extent than in any other colony, except \V estern Australia. lt has been ~aid tbat tbe staff have dictation cletks, but their assistance is not of so much value as it is thoug-ht, for they only g-o on fet 7 p.m., and they finish at 10"30, and after Lhat the strain on the Hctns«rd st«ff comes on. I notice interjections are being cut down, and I "uppo;e that accounts for the volubility of hon. 1nernbers opposite in this way, and on that ttccount I regret this. I believe that this curtailment of Hansard will lead to grettter acerbity in debate, and to an increa'·.e in indis­creet interjections. Generally speaking, the retrenchment propo"als of the Government will get very little sympathy from us. I deprecate tbis perpetual cutting down of civil servants' sabries, for I think it leads to demoralisation in the service. I was a ci vi! servant for a number

l'Vanz; qf Confidence Motion. [29 JULY.) Want rif Cmifidence 111.otion. 159

of years, and I was very glad to get out of the service on account of these reductions. This perpetual cutting down of the salaries of competent 1nen i'• a vecy grievou~ source of agitation and dis­con•entin the service. If men are unnecessary they should be got rin of, and if they are overpaid let them be paid a decent wage, bnt Jet us remember "the labourer is worthy of his hire." I come now to the new taxation proposals of the Go­vernment. That seems to be a fulfilment of the threat which was repeatedly made by the leader of the Government that Queensland will tight the federation. The Federal Government have taken <1.wav fr,)!n us our kerosene and tea duties, and. the 'Government propose to get back from the unfortunate neonle who med to nav those duties al·,lUt the ,,amc an1ount fron1 the incmne tax, and from the increased railway rates. I wel­come J,uy attempt to reduce tbe severity of indirect taxation. '"rhe idea in rnodern colonies a.nd all over the world is towards direct taxation and against indirect taxation. I hold with Pitt whf-;n he says that to "Levy a direct tt~x of 7 per cent. in a free country is a dangerous experirnent) and may excite re\~olt; but there is a way by which you can tax the lm;t rag from the back and the last bite from the mouth without causing a murmur about high taxes, and that is to tax a great many articles of daily necessity so indirectly that the peop: e will pay and not know it. They will grumh e of hard time,, not knowing that the har:l times ha':e been caused by tax:ttion." One f<·ature in the financial proposals of the Government is the reduction in the salaries ': civil servants, and the dismissals of these me 1

reduces consumption, and that means a reductio 1

in the production, and that can only serve t , accent.natA thP. RAYc~rity of the present depressior.1 \Ve have also to recognise that we have no longe;· sufficient markets for our producte, that we sha!; ha\e to place our products on the world's marke' s in such a way as they will be able to eo m pete with the products of other countries. I thi,lk these are points which this narrow, short­sighted Government have overlookeo, and, genernJly speaking, if these prnpm~als were referred to the people of the country I think the Government would last a very short time fHonourable members: Hear, hear!] · Mr. BELL (Daluy) : I intend to offer one or two observations on the amendment, and first I must oifer my congratulations to the hon. mem­ber who has just e<>t down on the interest­ing and able speech he has delivered. (He,tr, hear !) An interest attaches to the hon. member for Bowen apart from that which appertains to the ordir.ary debutant in this House. The hon. member comes into this Chamber with some­thing of a record. In the first place, he was the editor of that militant publication the Worker. I always had some doubt when reading the com­ments of editors of political newspapers as to whether they were really kith and km with ordinary hu1nan nature, and it is very intaesting to find the hon. g·entleman here in flesh and blood expressing to us before our eyes those godlike utterances he u'ed to put before us in the pages of the WorkeT. Before I pass from the personal aspect, I may Gay that I should imagine the hon. member for Flinders must rejoice at the presence in this Ch<mber of the hon. memher for Bowen. Hitherto we have been a legislature with only one J•Oet; but now, I thmk, we possEss two. The hnn. member for Flinders must have felt lonely as a literary oasis in the desert of Parlia­ment, and he must rejoice that the hon, member for Bowen has come to share the honour with him. I listened with great interest to what the hon. member for Bowen said on the sub­ject of the repurchase of estates on the Darling

Downs. As I understood the hon. gentle­man, he called attention to the remarkable contrast between the v.,luatiuns of the local authorities in connec,tion with the estates re­purchased and the amount of money given by the Govemment. There can be no CJUestion that a large difference exists. and that the con­trast is a remarkable one; but I lwlieve any regret there may be at the existence of such a contrast is to be laid chiefly at the door of the local authorities rather than the Uovernn,ent. (Hear, hear.) It has always been a matter for regret that a large nurnber uf country divisional boards ha\'e been unable to rate properties at anythirg approximating actual value,.. The latest instance of an effort on the part of local authorities to make a \'aluation so1netbing a:t'Droaching the value of the properties \Vas that 2f the division in which Gatton is "itu<tted. The bna~·i appointecJ a ca.pvoble valuator, who placed on pr IJerties a value that would be some ~uggEstion of thb~t actual value, but when the i1wvitable appeals were heard before a bench of local justieeB, in every case the valuation~ were heavily reduced. ·wbc·n you Jonk at the facts which justified the Go,·ermnent in paying appar­ently large prices fol' :.-;orne of tbe::-e estates, you find they got at the valne by as independent and impartial a source of inquiry a~ we can eonceive taking place in this State, \V e have the Land Court reporting on the properties without any departmental pressure whatever. I s<y so advisedly, because I have had to do with a number of properties reported on both by the Land Board and by the Land Court in the Dalby diotrict, and I say that the investigation made by those officials was mane in an impartial, thorough, and independent way, and without any regard for departmental desires at all. The hon. member for Bowen made frequent allusion to the Seaforth Estate. There is no doubt that it wa,; a tremendous blunder to Jmrchast' that estate, and no body of 1nen could regret it n101·e than thP Government must regret havillg bought that est,,te. But l believe it was a perfectly honest transaction. and it cannot be any rt>ason vvhy the UoYernn1ent financial pro­posals should ue disagreed with--because the Governrn~nt in the ]J>lSt m>1de a mistake. I happened to be going North once with a member of the Land Court who inspected tbe Seaforth :Estate (Nir. Hume), and as we were passing Port N ewry, one of the finest ports on the Queensland unast, and ri~ht against tbe Seaforth .!<~state, he said that •.dwn be went up to report on that e;;tate a petition waK put into his hands signed by e>cery ll!an and boy in Mackay, saying that the purchase of the estate was urgently desired, and the land would ail be selected. I suppose even a member nf the Land Court is mortal. Such a petition in the case of any ordinary human Leir1g would forrn some contri­bution to bringing about a state of mind favour­able to the acquisition of the estate. It cannot be tou well rememl1ered that t.he estate would not have been bought if an independent authority decided to influence the Govern­ment had not recommended this purchase. It was no doubt a blunder. Governments do

make blunders, and they blunder [ii'30 ]J.ln.] badly sometimes, but there is no

justification for the in~inuations made by the hon. member for Clerrnnnt and other members on that 8ide of the House. [Mr. AmEY: You made them yourself last year.] I am perfectly certain that the hon. member for Flinders never heard me make any insinua­tion with rPgard to the purchase of the Sea­forth Estate akin to the insinuations which the hon. member for Clermont abundantly moJ<es. I never insinuated, or suggested, that there was any want of honesty on the part of the

160 Want qf Confidence Jlfotion. [ASSEMBLY.] 1Vant qf Conjidenr•e llfotion.

Government in regard to that estate, but I suggested then, ~ts l do now, that the purchase of the estate was a tremendous blunder. So much for that attempt, which is rather an amateur attempt, to draw a contrast between the valuation placed on these repurchased estates and that made by the L:md Court, who recommended their Jmrchase and fixed the price. An investigation will show, as local authorities right through the country are perfectly aware, that the properties in divisions s.re absurdly underrated in value by them. Before passing away from the ;,ubject of repurchased estates, I may say that it is a great mistake for any people in the country to assume that the L"nd Court recommend the purchase of most of the properties which are otfered to the U·overn­ment. It i.s only a minority of the estates offered to the Government that are recommended for purchase. I quite agree with the policy of repurchasing estates in suitable localities, and so far as I can see it has been a thoroughly success­ful policy on thA Darling Downs. If the hon. member for Bowen had passed from that subject, and questioned the wisdom of that other important item in the Government policy to which the Treasurer is looking for revenue-that is, the extensive sale of large areas of the \Vestern lands-he would have been much more in accord with me. I have never yet be. m ab lA to appreciate the advantages of the policy of selling first·olass \Vestern lands at 10;. an aure. Although I do not class them with the a'{ricultural lands of the Darling Downs, yet I am convinced that an agitation will ultimately arise for the reacquisition of a great part of those Western lands, and we shall then have to give a ~reat deal more than 10s. an acre for them. Although the Government are ready to sell these lands at 10s. an acre, and although even in seasons like the present we find that there are pastoral leosees willing to buy the"e lands >tt lOs. an acre, yet it is not because they prefer to mnke freehold of the land. They buy the land bec<u'e they have no faith in the land legislation of the country, and they know l that when their leases are ended the only tangible assets they will h<W'' to show for the large amount of money they have put into the industry will be the purchased land which is left. But apart from that, if there was any confidence in the minds of pastoral lessees throughout (~ueensland glmerally in regard to the land legislation of this country-if they were assured of a reasonably long tenure which would give them some chanc<'l of getting back the large amount of money they have invested in these Western properties-they would prefer a long tennre to the purchase of land at 10·'· an acre. The hon. member for Gtegory will, I think, bear me out when I say it is the general desire to hold these Western lands by lease rather than by pm­chase. The sale of that land has been brought about first of all by the impecuniosity of the Government, and then by a doubt as to the attitude of hon. members npp•>site in regard to leasing those lands. It is a strange anomaly that there should be a party in the country who are notoriously hosti~e to the aliena­tion of b .. nd, and yet by thPn ::tttltude In

rPgard to land legishtion contribute towards that alienation. [nofr. HAJWACRE : No, we would have given them better terms than the Govern­ment did.] Wit.h the exception of the hon. member for Gregory, the hon. member for Leichhardt was the most bitter opponent the Government ba(l on their Pastoral Leases Bill of last session, and he complained that it was alto­gether too libe~al. lMr. HARDACRE: And nr:t liberal enough m some cases.] The general attr­tude of the hon. gentleman was that too great concPssionswem being made to the pastoral lessees

by the Government. LMr. Kms•ro:-;: The men who keep that Government there can take what the Government give them.] I am glad the hon. member has made that interjection. If there had been a first-class political •trategist leading the party opposite at the last general election in this State, and he had come forward and offered any sympathy to the pastoral lessees of Queensland, he would have had the pastoral lessees to a man opposing this Government and supporting his party; but there was no sympathy whatever shown by hem. members opposite to the pastoral le"seee. They had only the recollection of the bitter hnstilitv that the hon. member for Leich­hardt and the"hon. member for Gregory showed

' towards the proposals of the Gov6rument. LMr. \V. HAmLTON: \Ve thought we were in the right, and we have as much right to our opinions as you have.] The hon. member has certainiy a right to his own opinions. [Mr. W.

1 HAMILTON: And you have no right to say it was bitter hostility.] The hon. member is squirming. at criticism rather late in the day. I have heard his attitude and that of the hon. member for Leichbnrdt towards the Bill to which I haYe referred termed bitter hostility, and it is literally correct. Now I come to the que,tion of railway

! rates. The forecast made with regard to the effect of those rates by hon. members and others who have protested against them has been falsified by the actual figures. It has been said that there would be no increase in the revenue owing to the imposition of these new rates, but

! as a matter of fact, so far as we have gone, there has been an increase of £8,000 in the revenue. I admit that the month of ,July is a somewhat dangerous month to take for the purpose of making a comparison, inasmuch as the increased rates came int•> force on the 1st ,July, and those who had occasion to send go•>ds over the railway did so as mnch as possible during the month ot J nne rather than pay the higher rates which it was known would ;;hort.ly con>P into force. It is probably too soon to speak confidently as to the effect of the rise in rates, but at least as far as things have gone the railway revenue shows an increase, and the reasnn why I give my support to the Ministry in their financial proposals-an important part of which is comprised in the in­creased railway rates-is that these rates are an

, expedient to meet an unha.pp:csituati~>n, and if iti~­found by experience that the increase does not result in a.dditional funds being gat!Jered into the railway coffers, I believe an immediate re­duclion to the old rates will ensue. If, on the other hand, the returns show that increased revenue is coming jn as a result of the increased rates. then looking to the heavy annual loss sustained for years past by the Railway Depart­ment., undoubtedly the Government are doing their duty in increasing the rates when the un­happy circumstances of the colony justify it. Now, the hon. member for Bowon in his criticism of the increased railway ratH, and in drawing the contrast he did as to the cost of carrying on our rail ways, stated that none of the increa>ed

1 cost was due to increased wages or extra wages paid to new hands. \Vhat do we find when we turn to the figures? That during the last five years the increased expenditurA in

: carrying on our railways in regard to the item of "Staff" was £150,000, and that tbe restora­tinn of wages accounts for the sum of £1i8,000. I can hardly acquit the bon. member of careless­nPss in not being familiar with those figures,. because be spoke with a great deal nf conficleuc" when he told us that none of the extra ex1,ense was due to additional or increased wages. I take the view that. this increased cost means that. the exiger,cies of the service demanded that there should be an increased number of men employed, and if the hon. gentleman can "h:>w that the

IVa1d ?f Confidence Jfotion. [29 JULY.] W(mt qf Conjidencc Jlotion. 161

expenditure was uot necessary, it is his duty to do so. The hon. member for Bowen also mrtde reference to the application of the better· ment system to our rail w..tys, and I quite agree that as" g-eneral princi [Jie that system should be applied, but the unfortunate thing is that if we apply it to the country where we are making the most extensive additions to our railways-the \Vestr.rn country-it would be inOIJt:l'at.ive, because out of 100 miles of country 9!1 miles is owned by the Crown. Like many political theories, when you bring thmn into actual prac­tice they are not as workable as they appe<tr at first sight. 'When the practic tl man takes into consideration the rent of runs, he fr eqnently puts a higher rental on country that is remote from a railway than on conntry which is right up against a railway. The proximity of a rail way is not the principal factor in determining the rent of runs. It is not the only factor by ttny ffiPans. Now, the acting leader of the Opposition has moved an amend­ment which asks this Honse to affirm that the financial propo~1..ls of the Governrnent a.re un­satisfactory. \Vel!, when the leader of a political party makes a proposnl of this kind one has always to look at the other side of the question. We have to consider--:.;upposing the':ie IJroposalt5 are unRati;::factory and do not reprt'~ent the acme of what we think financial excellence-what is the alternative if we put this party out and accept the hem. gentleman as the chief adviser of His Excellency? \Vhat is the principal pbnk in the platform of hon. members oppo,ite? At the last <reneral elec­tion, and befvre it, and since then, the chief plank in the phtform of hon. mem­bers opr\o..,ite has been a land tax, and I suppnst~ if there is one thing· nwre than another which told ngain~t thn,t party on the Darling Downs, and in other' imporr.ant areas in the coastal distric· s, it was the idea of a lane! tax. I h •pP that not merely hon. members of this Honw, but the country at larg-e, will remember that however displeased they may be at the increa~e of r~tilway rates; hi)VV8\'er unhappy they mtty be at the prospect of an income tax­I hope those people "'ho are the backbune of the country and the backbone of thP fiue"t di,trict country-the Darling Downs~--will remember that if the 0 pposition party come' into power one of the fir et measures to be introduced by them will be a land tax, in :tddition to the taxation already leviEd under our loc1tl government laws. If I had more objPction than I have to the financial proposals of the Government., I find the only alternative for the· e propusals io< not a modiHcation of them, hut a financial policy-011R of the proposals in which will be a lane! tax. I fine! it very difficult to understand how any member rPpresenting a district where there are a largE' number of ~electors who have the utmost difficulty in mrtking both ends meet can assent to any proposal of that kind. If there were no other reason than that, I should give my vote against the proposal of hon. members opposite. The part of the Government's propos~ls that I am least in sympathv with is that dealing with the reduction of civil servants' salaries. There is no doubt that the periodical reduction of civil servanrs' t:Jalaries and a reduction in their numbers strikes a tremenclou;; blow at the prestige of the service, and will make it very difiicnlt ro get really good men to enter the service at all. There is probably not a t1n"r organisation of the kind in the world than the Indian Civil Service; and as they are p•icl good salaries there, an<l they are appointed for life, the re>nlt is tbat the brainief';t rnen in G-reat Brita,in compete for posts in it. Of course we cannot approximate to any­thing like that here, but we shculcl not pursue a policy which enables a Government to turn out

Hl02---M

men who have been in the service for many years and who have given satisfaction, especially in the later part of their life, and when they are still in uo::;session of their faculties. It see1ns a cruel thing to do, and I only regret that the Government ha Ye felt it incumbent on tllem to make such drastic retrenchment. Another ieature that strikes me is that when reductimm are being made in salaries cell round, l fine! that a privileged body of 1nen-n. handful-::;urrle e·ght or nin~-­e,re exempt from these reductions. I think that the representative of His :'Ylajesty basset a good example in agreeing to subrnit to a reduction in his •,aJary, and 1 think every decent man wili appreciate his action. (Hear, hear!) If thiR <tcti.m is not followed bv others who are in almost irnpregnable positiont5, u as far as f'alarie.~:; are concerned, I have it in n1y rnind to bring down legislation which will affect ttlem. (Hear, he:o,r :) [:Ylr. Krl>S'l'OX: Is that a thre,tt ?J ::'\ro : I prefer to term it an intimation. It is an absolutely unhappy position that in " t1nancial emergency of tbis kind a handful of men should be <eble to keep themselves aloof frorn such retrenchment, \V hen rnen who are less able to bear it are curnpelled to suffer. The junior member for Ipswich, in criticising the policy of the (Xovennnent the other night, went one better than the lettcler of the Opposition in suggesting what should be done. He said it was very reprehensible on ttw p•rt of this Govern· rn<·nt not to have taken steps to collect the tea a.nd kerosene dnties wbrm they were altered by the Federal Government. I don't know whether the hurL member wat:l in earnest in making Huch a statement, but l hope the GoVermuent will not fullow his au vice, because it would place tlJeiil ln a ridiculou::; po~::dtion. Dues any­one imagine that the li'eder«l Parliament is going tv be bossed !Jy any Sta~e Parliarnent? \Voulcl they allow themselves to be embarrased in such a way·: :1\o. For if such a thing hap[>ened they cuuJr] pass an Act to indemuify themse]ve~,. l'hen what rnachinc:ry is there in this St>tte by which these rluties could be collected 0 The whoh· machinery oft.he Custmns has been renHJ\·ecl from thio State to the I<'ederal Parliament, and we know that the moment the Treasurer eomes down with an alteration of the tariff the collectors are wired to to collecc the new dutie< at once, aud if the proposals are not carried, then the Tre:tourer has to undertake the clnty of making refunds. It is quite useless for anybody yielding to the

instigation of partisan im1J111se to [7 p.m.] say, '' \Ve do not like these pro-

posals; let us put the Government out of office." It is e";ential that the alternative should be considered, and I say that one of the chief features of the financial proposals of mem­bers on the other Jide is the imposition of a lane! tax. I have here a report, of the remarks made· by the Labour canclidauo>s for South Brisbane at the last general election; and I find that they said, alluding to what would he the financial action of the Labour party if they got into pnwer, that the Labour party would impose a land tax, that lane! values up to £300 would be exempt from taxation, tbat the tax would be on a sliding scale, starting at £300 with ld. in the £, then £100 with lkd. in the £, then £1500 with lfcl. in the £1, and so on. That is the, deliberate statement of the financial policy of members opposite as announced by one of thPir· authorised candidates, and I repeat that when we are considering the question before the House we must bear in miud what are the alternative pro­pnoals to the financial proposals of the Govern· ment. [::VIr. KmSTON : There are no alternative. propm,als.] ::lurely the hon. gentleman does not imagine that he has no other duties than those of a critic ! I suppose the hon. gentleman lS

162 I'Vant f!f Co1!ficlence JWotion. [ASSEMBLY.] Want of Co1!fidence Motion.

not going round now on the platform of his party aR l>tid down at the last general election. Fnquestionably a land tax is one of the most prominent features in the policy of hon. members opposite. Now I want to point out what that me•ns trauoformed into pmctical application. It will mean-taking £300 as the lowest ,mount-that any holding worth £300 will have to pay 1d. in the £ State land tax, which will come to £1 fis. a year. [Mr. Kms1'0N : It will pay nothing ; it is exempt.] l prefe-r to take this deliberate state· ment made on a public platform by a Labour i cancliclate for the suffrages of the people on the ' other side of the river. [Mr. Kms1'0N: If yon nre going to judge this party on their policy, you ought to state correctly what is their policy.] I rnn not gning to how down to the attetnpt.ed stigma tbat I un1 stating the policy incorrectly, hecauR"! I claitn that I am not doing so. Unles •• ny memory deceive' me the hon. member had only just retnrne.d to tt•e country at the time. [i\'Ir. KmRTON: Smely you will give me crerlit for knowing the policy of n1y own party with regad to that matter.] The hon. member ought to know thP policy of his own party, but I am very mnch disposed to think that he does not, or that if he does his cleartlf'l•s of vision as a financier i~ Ronle\vhat irnpail'f'd by hi~ zeal a" a partis:tn. Taking the figures laid down by the Labour candidate t.o "'hom I have referrPd, on a propertY valued at £300 the tax \vould be ld. in the £, and the r.nnual payment would be £15s. On a property worth £500 the tax would be 1fd., and the annual pr.yment £2 l2s. ld. ; on a property worth £1,000 the tax would be l~d., and the annual p~yment £G lls. 3d. ; on a pro. perty worth £1,500 the tax would be 2~d., and !

thP·annual payment £15 12s. 6d. ; on a property worth £2,000 the tax would be 3~d., and the annual payment £26 Os. lOd. ; on a property worth £2,500 the tax would be 3'£d., and the annual payment £391s. 3d. ; on a property worth £3,000 the tax would be {;d., and the annual ,,'l,.,.mPn ~. f•!14 1 B.::;. Hd. : on a property worth ;£3:500 the tax would be Gel., and the annual 11ayment £72 18s. 4d; on a property worth £"1,000 the tax would be ;,~d., nnd the annual payment £93 l'Js. ; and ~o on. 'What I want to point out i", that this is the alternative policy that will be put before the country if the finan· cial proposals now before this House are not accepted, and I cannot conceive the Darling Downs, or any other district that ~' settled by agrieultural farms and homeste~a selections, deliberatPly accepting a policy of that kind, because if thi' lan:.l tax is imposed, depend upon it you are not going to have the local governn1ent system for ascertaining the value of the land. There will be a much more accurate and stringent method of ascertaining the real value of the land, and a State land tax will undoubtedly be fixed on the fnll value of the land; and in additwn to that you will find that thPre will be a reform in the local government method of ascertaining the value of the land, and that the small land­owners on the Darling Downs and in the coastal districts will have to pay first of all theit· local rrovernment tax on a much higher value than thRy are paying now, and then a land tax tn the State Treasurer, based on the topmost values. As a representative of a number of small land­owners I consider I should be doing an exceed­ingly foolish thing if I accepi"ed the invitation of the actin[( leader on the other side and joined him in condemning the present financial pro­posals of the Government.

Mr. MACKINTOSH (Cambooya): I have no desire to prolong the discussion to any extent, but I do not wish to give a silent vote on this ~ubj8ct. If I am not too late, I must compli-

ment the Speaker on ha,·ing been unanimously appointed to the position which he now occupies, and also the hon. member for Dalby on his unanimous election as Chairman of Committees. I have known both gentlemen for a long time, and from my knowledge of them 1 am confident that they both possess the natural ability and educotional attainments necessary to fill their respective positions with credit; and I trust I shall show my appreciation of their appointment by giving them as little trouble as possible. I further desire to eo m pliment those gentlemen who have been returned to this House as new members. I was once a new member myself­in fact, I am little more than a new member now, as I have a g-reat deal to learn in order to enable me to fully discharge my dnties as a member of the Honse. As one of the fonnders of this colnnv I welcome those hnn. members to thia House, ;ind so far as they have expressed themselves I have come to the conclusion that they are an acquisition to the House, an honour to themselves, and a credit to the constitutents by whom they have been returned. The q nest ion befor~ the Hou>e for our determina­tion is whether th, proposals of the Government are satisfactory or not. The leader of the Opposition wishes ns to affirm that they are not. Well, I have taken a great deal of interest in public affairs ever since constitutional Govern­ment was first established, and I never yet knew a Government that gave entire satisfaction. I have supported different Governments when their individual proposals did not satisfy me. The proposals of the present GovPrnment do not satisfy me, but still I must choose the best out of the worst. Politically, I do not believe there is any man in the Honse who is in a more independent position than I am, and "ho is more free to express what he truly thinks of the pro­posals which have been placed before us. The tone given to this debate up to the present time, more especially by the new members, I mnst say hae been moot pleasing, although things have been said by many members opposite which will bear

- • • - • • • • T l 1 • .L, ...J J ~ a gooa uea1 oi. cuvu..:;t:jl11. ~ uau. .~.i:.. ........ ~-.uc~ ... ~

make some reference to the attitude atlopted by the Worker towards the party now in power, but perhaps, under the circumstances, it woulrl be better not to refer to that m>ttter. I may say, however, that when I first settled in this country I started work at 4 o'clnck in the morning, and knocked off at 10 "'clock at night, but I really believe the proposal of the Worker is to reverse those hours-begin work at 10 o'clock and knock off at 4. The junior member for Ipswich, in a most brilliant speech which he made 0n Thnrs­day night, referred to thA amendment as being- of "the cuttle-fish variety,'' and also said that the time was inopportune for moving it, and, much to my surprise, that young legal luminary wound up by saying that he would vote with the Oppo,ition, 'l'he Government have been accnsed of extrava­gance, and no wonder, considering the way they

have carried on. vVhen they got a [7'30 p.m.] surplns they spent it extravagantly,

instead of developing the rich natural resonrces of the colony. Bnt the ques­tion is: What are we to do? The leader of the Opposition said that £500,000 could be retrenched, and yet when the Govemment come down with a pror osal to retrench abont a third of that amrmnt, they raise a huge cry and say the Government should be kicked out. I ca.n't understand that. I believe in any opposition to the Government proposals being put forward in a concrete form, and if the party opposite does that I will support them. The Government are not what they ought to be, for we all know that there is nothing perfect under the sun. But the other side suggest nothing. 'fhey say that when the doctor is

Want qf Confidence Motion. [29 JULY.~ TYrml rJ Confirlence iWotion. 163

,called in he will prescribe. Fancy myself going before my elector" and asking them to return me on the strength of my saying that when I was returned I would do what I could fur them ! Do you think they would return me on that under· standing? Not a bit of it. I think if bon. members opposite could solve the present political problem, they would be returned with a large majority. vVhen you look ttround, what are the necessary in1:redients you require' Sound well-seasoned timber. Go to the other side and what do we get? Soft hoop· pine, fnll of knots and sap. If a Cabinet was made of it, with the heat of this Chamber it would get all warped. That is the position I find mv,elf in. I am between the devil and the deep sea. The country is in a deplora hie con· clition, with a deficit which has been growing for many years. If the ever-to-be-regretted Sir Thomas Mcil wraith had carried out the policy that he prop,nmded many years ago, this would have now been the jewel of the Australian :-ltates. \Ve would h"ve had the railways, we would have had the land, and "'''would have had the money too, and, in place of our present deficit, we would have had a surplus. \Vhat we rt:quire 110\V is not to curtail the civil ser­vice·-tbere is no one objects 1nore to that than myself--hut we ha,·e got a surplus of ciril servanto. Let us do without them, the same as any private individual, and pay them handsomely for what they do, and let us develop the rec;onrces of the country to the utmost. The whole of the row at the present time is in con· nection with the deficit in the Trgsurer's accounts. \Vben we have a surplus, there is'' demand for public builrlings, and for this thing and that thing, and Brisbane is the greatest culprit; but, take my word for it, Brisbane will be the gTeatest sufferer before long. \Vhat on earth cto we want with those great buildings that are going up in George street? I believe they will cost £250,000. 'rhen there is the gr>'<tt railway station, although it was constructed before we had this deficit. I blame the t ;overnn1ent f~)r these things, because they say they mnst make Brisbane a great city, lik<: Sydney and Melbourne ; but it is folly to atteinpt this when we cannot afford it. The money that has been expended on public build· ings in Brisbane would have built many rail ways into agricultural settlements that contribute to make Brisbane a city. This kind of thing is iargelv due to the fad that Brisbane, between the m~rnber~ who represent the city and suburh' and thMe who live in Brisbane but represent other constituencies, ha,; something like twenty­four members. These go individually to the Government, and, when the Government will not do what they want, then they go collect­ively, with the result that there is nothing left for the rest. The great bone of contention at present in the country districts is the rail­way freights and fares. I have al wa:l's con­tended that the great means of developmg tbe country is by n1eans of railway cornmunication. The Premier said in his manifesto that wbrtt we depend upon is the dairying and agricultnral industry. And how is the agricultural industry to be encouraged? By sending railways into agricnltur:tl centres to enable producers to get their produce to market as easily and cheaply as possible. And why do not the Government extend the railways further into agricultural dhtricts? Because the railways do not pay, and the Government will have to borrow more money before they can extend them further.

The SPEAKER: I must remind the hon. member that the rail way policy of the Govern­ment is not now before the House. 'rhe question before the House is the amendment of the leader of the Opposition deelaring that the financial

proposals of the Government are unsatisfactory ; and I am sure I have only to remind the hon. member of that question to ensure that for the rest of his ><peech he will address himself closely to the amendment.

Mr. MACKINTOSH: I apologise for trans­gressing the rules of the House. My desire is to assL;t the Government in gett.ing over the financial difficultie,; we labour under at the present time. In conneccion with the rail way rates, I will just refer to one ,,r two items. Take chaff ana hay, for instance. Before the fJresent regulations came in to force the eharge from Clifcon was 13s. lOd., now it is 12,. ld. for the truckload~a saving of Is. 9d. On cr<'.tm the charge previously was ld. for 16 mile•, now it is ~~d., and if anyone wants tn 'Jtnd it as far as Brisbane he has to pay only !;d. n gallon more. Smn•: tin1e ago I wrote to thr- railwa.y Traffic

:VIanager with tlw viPw of getting [~ p.m.] mola;ses from .l:\unchberg at a

rea~mna,ble rate, in ortler to save starving stock on the Darling D<Jwns, and the reply 1 received frPm th:tt officer has bc,en published in tbe Press. ·what was the re,ult? Why, as soon as tlle.Government reduced the freight on rnola-;ses the vendors raiNed the price. Some yPars ago the rate fnr hay and chaff from Pittsworth to Brisbane was lfi;. a ton. \Ve got np an agitation fur the reduction of the ratE>, and it was brought d<1wn to 13;. 4d. \Vhen the matter was adjusted the price in the Brisbane market was actually decreased by that amount, so t!mt the far·mer reall,v gained nothing by the reduction. Now I come w the cruci~l grPstion with which we have to deal, and that is how to replenish the depleted Treasury chest. The oniy 1neans by which v .. 'e can do that satisfactoril vis by selling lrrnd. \Ve have over 400,000,000 acres of land in this St,te. and why should we not sell 1,000,000 acres to enable us to tide over our pre­sent difficulty? I know that hon. members oppJsite object to the selling of land, but lam con· vinced that that is the policy which we ,-hould adopt. vVe also want capital introduced into the country in order to develop its resources, and we should not vlace any restrictions on capital, or put any obstacles in the way of its investment. If capitalist,, want to take mineral;; to port, let them build a railway for that purpose; that is a policy I have always supportecl. ·with regard to retrenchment, I am ,·ery sorry that there is any occasion to retrench anyone, but if we have more men in the service than there is work for we should not keep ttrem, but let them go, as a pri­vate individual wonlc! do. Let the Govern· ment pay well the men who do the work and do away with those who are not re: quired. I d.o not think thC1t civil servants should receive any more consicleration them per­sons in the employ of a private indivicl< Jl, and why should I be tormented from day to d:ty by men who want to get more than they are getting? l will now come to my hst point--the payment of members. Ministers are voluntarily inclined to surrender somp of their pay. I <lo not grudge them £1,000 a year, If I wure a Minister to~:rnorrow----a:'. I ma:v be sonw dav--I should hold tbat the remuneration attach;d to the positio.1 was none too much; but if they are prepar,·d to f'nrrender I ··ut of 'vhat they are receiving, n1ore po\':er anrl glory t(l thun. If they do the work for nothing, I should hav,, n<> objection. I never was ~trongly in favour of payment of member,,. I was at one time under the imprr"•sion tllat they were ,.'orth som · ,,inn­and that their constituent" should contribut~ whatever they reeeind, but since then I have come to the conc!usi m that th"t would be party support, and my ultimate con­clusion was that the Sta,te slrould bell' the burden, which should amount to something like

l6J< Wimt of C:oujide,u·e Jfotion. [ASSEMBLY.] VVant qf Confidence J!£otion.

£100 a year. I am of that opinion still. I am sure there are more than seventy-two men in the colony sufficiently patriotic and loyal to render voluntary service in the legislature of the country. It would have been better for me during the past three years if there had been no payment of members. le would h,w, saved me hundreds of ]Jounds. On thfct (jclestion, when the proper thne com,..:s, I shall vote according to 1ny con­science. I have now cmne to the end ot my ren1arks. This i~ the first occa:~•ion on which I have had the p1ensure of addressing the I--Iou:~e withoat being under a h .n. I "'" not satisfied during the past three yearf.>, as there \Vere so rnany acCU:3ation . .;,; brought against rn,, to which I will not 1 1fer. I tbank the House for the pa.tient h(· trin£; it ha·. given rne, <:1nd I hope n1y r~_ marks \vill have 1'Wllle effect upon hon. n1emh•r:-:.

Mr. W. 1-LD.HL':!'O:-i (c;,.,'/Ot'/1): Before deal­ing with the mnendnH:~nt before tbe House I wit'h to ·rr·ply tu 8orne rernarks rnade this evening- by the hon. rnemlwr lot· D,tlby. :\Ir. Bell. The hon. tnernber went <1Ut of hi~ way tu clunge Hl8 and the hon. rnembm· for Leichhardt with being two of the hitter8•t men in the 1-l•>use towe,rds the pa:'ihJrali~ts, aud ~lf~ t-iaid it 1'30 \·ehemnntly that he re"lly sc:emed to mean it. Since I have been a member of this Honse I do not think mv actiou bears out the hon. ITJernl)er:s charge. T~vo years ago when the Ad oi 1900 was passed, when the pastorali~ts were ~u~king f,w rt'lief legi.~lation and sent. a ddegatedown here for that purpose, I askei the hon. member what part he took in the agito.tion ? I recognised that tbey required some relief legislation, and I do not think ther·· v:a3 a nJPmb0r who worked han1er to bring that about than I dicl. The hon. member charged me ·.vith displaying a great amount of bitterness towards the Act nf 1!101. I may tell the hem. member th>1t shortly after that Act wa;; passed I went before my constituents, and everyone of the1n understood 1uy opinion on the question. The land qtwstion was brought pretty prominently before them, bec:mse when I speak to mv constituents I add, e>s them as I address this House-I say what l think I was returned by a majority of two to one, which shows that the TJenple in nJy di':-trlct npholrl m, in my viewH on the land qne-stion. The hon. rnetnber laughs, a sort. of hollow laugh. I would likr· the hc>n. member to remember that I was returned hy that. majority in spite of the exertions made by some members on the other side to defeat me, one of whom told me he sent up a pretty large sum of m•mey in order tu bring that about, Now, it must be remembered that the 1 UOl Bill was not brought forward by the hon. member for Leich­hardt or n1yself. It was a Gov~:rnment ll1C.lSUre, and if it \\as not [l, w)od D18R.8Ul'e the GovernlTient shoulcl accept all the respomibility. Although the hon, memher for Dalby, :\fr. Bell, and the hon. member for Bri'5bane ~orth, ~Ir. C::nueron, say that th.> Act i• no good, :mrl that it is not affordinF-{ any relief to the pastoraliHt~, yet if you take up any nm>,ber of the Gazette you will find that. nearly every Rtation-holcler is applying to come under the Act. [Mr. BELJ,: :Nu. You are quite wrong.] lts fast. as 1 hey ttre eligible they are comingunderit. LMr. CAMERON: Not5percent.] I would like to refer now tu the sales of land, which forms patt of the financial proposals of the Government, and I do not think any bun. member has spoken more strc.n~ly against that than the hon. member for Dalby. [Mr. BELI,: Hear, hear!) :Yfy views coincide with his to a great extent on th1s question. But I differ from the hon. member for Dalby in this: that if th12re was a" nte of want of confidence. moverl against the Government on this question I would be found voting against the Government, bnt doubt whether the hon. member for Dalby

wou Id. He condemns that policy, and still hE­says he will support the Government. [Mr. BELL: I voted against the Government on the direct question, and I was the only one on this side to do so.] I have been given to understand that the Government intend to offer land for sale at a cheaper price than that in lac;t year's Act-to reduce the minimum. [The PRK mm: Y on ha Ye been misinformed.] The hon. mem­ber for Dalby went out of his way to refer to the land tax, and bronght forward wbat he said were th'> proposals of hon. members on tbis side. :'low, the principal plank of lancl taxation reads thiR \vt:Ly : "A progn ... r:~ive land ta·( with exeriJption urJ to £300." That ii4 the land tax proposals of the ]Jarty on this side. The­itPms read ont by hin1 have noth-ing to do with the land tax proposals of this party. The 'lmendment before the Hou -e 'ay,; that the propos::t]:-; of the Governnlent ar~ not ~ati:·dactory, .tnd th,,.t this is fully borne out by the utterance .. , not only in thH Press all over the country, hnt eYen by the utterances of hon. me1nbe1·~ on the otl1er side. I have nutieul. this ;..;ession 1110re than the fir ~t Kes:-.ion I Wfl ~· returned, that whenPver new 1nernOer~ on thi,-; side ha,·e got up to addre' ' the Home they have been heckled by m em hers >i tting nn the front Trc . .tsury benches, and I think it shows very bad form on their part. Hon. tnPtlll'iT·~ sitting opposite hn.ve gone a long way to twl~ter up the proposals (Jf the Governr11ent ~ One minute they condemned the taxation pro­po>tds nf the Government and the raising of the milwt>Y rates, and yet they finished up by saying­they are g·oing to support the Government. \Vbat those hon. member• are going to say to their CtHlstituents I do not know. Last year thf Treasurer foreshadowed a surplus of £21,000, and it dt•es not show much in the way nf busi­uc .s capacity for a Treasurer or a Government to now c"me down with a deficit of £-!00,00() or £ii00,000. They blame the drought, they bh,mc' federatio:1, and the hon. member for Bnlin1ha blamed the Labour party for this. \V ell, we are willing to accept a gond deal of the blame, but we will let this pa,s. There has been a great outcry from the farmers and other people in the Sonth about how they have suffered from the drO\w-ht. I dare say they hav~ suffered, but the drought has only been on in the South for five or 'ix month-, while the people in the\\' est have suffered very severely from it for four 01'

five years, and they will, in addition, suffer more from the fin:mcial proposals of the Government than anyone els'.' frnm raising the railway rn.tf's and the prices of the necessaries of life. Two ye,trs ago I blamed the Government for want of foresight, and if they bad taken proper action then we would not have them coming down with such oPYere retrr_·nchment and such extra taxa­tion. Two years ago we had a falling off of £2,000,000 in t•ur exports. Could not the Go vernment hove curtailed expenditure thEn? Out of the £9,000,000 exports over £5,000,000 was due to pastoral product.,; yet in spite of the drought and the falling off in exports, instead of curtailing expenditure, and trying: to make expenditure enme within reYenue, the Governrnent went on creating fresh billets and raising salaries. There waR &n additional expenditure of £47,000 last ,-ear fnr SU!!ar experiment stations, and £:J4,00(} this year. ['fhe Prn:~mm: No, you are only £40,000 wrong in your figures; it was only £4, 700.] Then the Governn1ent raised the Com­missioner for Railways' ,,a]ary hy £500, and they raised the salaries of some under 'ecretaries by £100. In the face of the disaster threatening the colony they did all this, and trusted to Providence that rain would come; and now, in the middle of HJ02, we find the colony in a state of insolvency practically. They say tllat they cctnnot

Want rif' CM~;jideuce iWotion. [29 ,JULY.] 165

borrow any more money ; that they cannot get enough revenue to pay the interest on what they owe ; and now they come duwn with leaislation ' that will create more misery and suffering for tht• next two years than ever we have passed through. The discharging of all those State employees is

only adding to the unemployed. [8'30 p.m.] The cutting down of the salaries of

those still in employment will act very harshly, e8peciall;o on those in the \V est. The cutting <lown of the endPwments to hospi­tals and local authorities will mean the closina of most of the hospitals out there, and will dri v~ the local authorities to retrench also. They will have to get rid of .a lot of t.heir employees, in ordel' to brmg their expenditure within their revenue, with the reRult of throwing thousands of people on the unemployed marliet, with no work to be had in the colony for them. I do not think anyone is in. a po"ition to criticise financial proposals which he has not seen. It was evident that the hon. member for Carpentaria had had access to sources of in­formation which have been denied to others. 'Ve can only work "on the blind," as they say, or take the statement of the leader of the Opposi­tion. \Vith regard to the reduction of salaries I do not believe in it. The fact of so many dis: charges all over the colony shows that thet·e is very little business c~pacity in the heads of de­partments. If there are 400 or 500 too many employees in the State to-day, there must hav'e been two Yh1rs ago; and why did nnt the Goyernment, when they had a deficit of £500,000 facmg them last year, come down "·ith these retrenchment proposals then? As to the in­eome tax proposed by the Govert~ment, it is about the greatest abortion of a tax I ever heard of. In all other t;tates Rnd countries of the world where there is an income tax, there are exemption" up to a certain amount. \Y con this side have always advoc:>ted an income tax. It is abon c the fnirest tax we can have becnuse I

it falls upon those who can afford t;, pay it. But the income tax propo~ed bvthe Ci-overnment forces people to pay it whether· tiwy are able or not. There are no exen1ptions :lt alL Eve1·y w::t~herwoma.n, every rouseabout, every unern­ployed who may get a casual few weeks' labour has to pay £1. That should not be. Ther·e should be no taxfttion on anyone under £100 even in the pruent distressed state of the financ~s, and in ordinary circumstances the exemption should be up to £200. If that i., not a poll tax I do not know what ir. is. It is putting the white man on a par with the Chinaman who has to pay a poll tax of £1 to come here. I hope that when the proposal is broug-ht before ns hon. members on the other side who have expresserl their dislike to it will assisl; hon. mem­bers on this side in making it more reasonable. \Vhy did not the Government propose an absen­tee tax, which would reach some of those wealthy people who live out of the colony and draw very lal'ge amounts out of it? That wonld have been better than taxing the unfortunate cc:rporation labourer getting 5s. or· Gs. a day. I will not refer furoher now to the taxation pro­posals of tbe Government, because I have only a general knowledge of them, like most other members who have spoken. I should like to say a word or two on the rail way rates. The ' Minister for Rail ways has told us that the rates in Queensland are lo" er than in any of the other colonies. That IS not correct, as far as the rates in South Australia are con­cerned. The rmsing of the rail way rates will f:tll heavier on the people in the far \Vest than on those in any other portion of the State !

and will have the effect of driving all that trad~ to South Australia, which hao; been bidding for , it very successfully for years. Let me give one '

or two instances 11·here the South Australian rates are lo..ver than ours. From Townsville to 'Vinton, a distance oi cHit> miles, sugar is c.trried at £4 7o. 1d. per ton. .From Adelaide to Her­gott, a distance of 440~ miles, the mte is £2 7s. a ton. The rat,; for spirits is about the same On jams the rate in Queensland for 368 miles is £fl ls. per ton ; in South Australia it is £4 os., or a differenc·' of £4 13s. in favour of that State. This is before the rates were raised. Flour is £3 2'. lid per ton for 3Gti miles in Queensland. I"~.,rmn Port 1:\.ugm::;ta, for a diHtance of 181:1- mile~, the charge i;; 14s. Gd per ton. In other words, for the same price in South Australia yon can get flour carried for over 700 miles. Thus on ftonr alone the railway r:>te is ':ery nearly double what it is in South Australia. Yet they propose to mise the rates ! The GoYernment tell us that the)' are going to give the pastoralist s longer ten tu es and every en~ cnnrae:ement to help them to pull through and imprr)ve the country, and yet the first thing they do is to raise the railway rates, which will haYe the effect of preventing them improving their country. The proposals of the Government will tend to driYe the trade of my district to South Australia. Adelaide now gets a lot of trade that should go to Tnwnsville. You c<>n get Queensland sugar in Adelaide iis. or 10s. a ton cheaper than you can g-et it in Townsville. [The PREMIER : 'I' hat is nut the case. You are talking nonsense.] That wes the case some twelve months ago. 'Vhen the Secretary f()r Railways was comparing the rates in :New South \Vales with those here. he did not give all the facts of the case. Of course, the hon. gentleman never does. He just mentions what suits his little book. He did so on that occasion. They revised the rates in New South \Vales twelve months ago, and they also shortened the hours of the railway employees and incre><sed their pay; and, although they have eighteen non-paying lines, showing- a deficit of £22.000, the receipts were £4,125,453. '!'he working- expenses were £2,505, 672--an increase of £(i1i:l,3ii7 ; they allowed rebates on fodder for starving "tock to the extent of £3H,il77, and, notwithstanding the .;horrer hours and better pay of the employee", theN ew South Wales rail­wavs paid s·GG 1-"'r cent., and, in addition, paid ov~r £100,000 to the Treo.surer. It is a mis­take to raise rail way rates and put additional burdens on the people when they cannot afford to bear them, as a means of getting a hrger re,·eime. Although the :New Sunth \Vales railways paid £100,000 into the consolidated revenue five-sixths of the traffic was carried for abot~t ~d. ner ton per mile, which is lower than the oid rates in Queenslanu, to say nothing of the present increased rates. If the drought breaks up soon, as I hope it will, we want to encourage people to restock their country and make inPJroven1entB, but the Governn1ent are adopting· the very mean·, of preventing them doing so. The cheaper you makP it for the people to travel the more people tra \'el, and every colony that hav adopted low rates has had increased re\·enue. I believP in America they carry people at extraordinariiy low rate~ on ~nme lines, and it has all tended to incre cs~ haffic. The Secre­tary for Railways has stated that he would like to make our rail ways a comn1ercial concern. I do not know what wonld become of the country if he did. :Nearly every one of our rail ways has been constructed to develop the country, and in that way has proved of great service. We would nc,t ·have had the ,,ettlement in the \Vest, and I do not think we would have had it in many parts of the South, if it were not for ex­t.endill" the railways. Even if we had a large deficit ~m the railways, if the Government had allowed rebates on' fodder and hnrl not raised thE' rates, they would have had a good deal of

166 Want qf Cmifidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] Want qf Confidenre Motion.

sympathy from members on both sides. The Minister says that he is getting rid of everyone who is not wanted-that his policy is efficiency combined with economy. Well, if we remember , the report on the Northern Railway that bad to be dragged out uf the hon. gentleman last year, before all this retrenchment took place, judging from the state of that railway when there were four i or five men where now there are two, the railways ! in the North would be unsafe to travel on if we had a wet season. The hon. gentleman estimates an increase in revenue of from £100,000 to £130,000 through raising the rates. He may get it if he can bring in a Bill forcing everyone to nse the railways, but you cannot compel people to travel. There are a lot of people who would travel at low rates who will not travel at high rates. There are also many people who would send a lot of produce by rail if the rates were low, and I think the hon. gentleman will find that, instead of an increase of £100,000, the high rates will tend to decrease the revenue. It is very hard on people in the far \Vestern country to have the rates raised on them, while the people of Bris- i bane are exempt. Brisbane has been spoonfed for years at the expense of the rest of the colony. Hundreds of thousands of pounds are expended here in dredges, public buildings, and every­thing else, while other parts of the colony can­not get £1,000 to conserve water perhaps for the whole community; an<l if you are going to raise the rates and fares on the people in the North and West, then you should do it on the suburban railways around Brisbane. If anyone is entitled to exemption it is the people in the drought­stricken districts. There are seve"d other mem­bers on this side who wish to speak. The Premier has said that he is going to forcn the de­bate through to-night, which is very unfair, as hon. m em hers do not care about getting up in the small hours of the morning on an important motion like this. The Premier should give every hon. member an opportunity of expressing his opinions. It is all very well for the Premier to say he wants to get on with the work of the country, but when the Address in Reply was carried be was not ready to go on with busines8. And two years ag.o when the Address in Reply went through m two days he was not ready to go on with business, and had to drag in the Criminal Uode, which woulrl probably not have g·one through yet only for that. l think the amend­ment mond by the leader on this side would do a lot of good. If the Treasurer only removes the anomalies in the rate,, the amendment will 1

have done good, and I have much pleasure in· giving it my support..

Mr. CAMERON (Brisban(; Xorth): I do not propose to take up much tiwe on this occasion. I recognise the difficulties the Government have to contend with in their efforts to make revenue balance expenditure as nearly as possible, ancl I think they should be assisted in those efforts by every member of the community. I think the cause of the deficit ;, to be ascribed not to mismanagement, but almost altogether to the awful drought. I believe that if we had had no drought we shonld ha,ve had no deficit. "With regard to the pre,>Osals of the Government, my opinion is that wme of their expectations are too high, especially their eotirnate in crmnection with 1

territorial revennt", which I believe will fall short by £200,000. The quantity of wool will probably be less, the receipts from : stock will be less, and the carriage on pro­duce less, so that even with the increased rates I do not think it will reach more than 1

perhaps £1,230,000. I think the amount to be received from territorial revenue is over-esti­mated, unless the Government intend selling more land, and purchasers can be found. I am strongly of opinion that the best thing to do

would be to sell as much of the \V est ern land as possible, and I speak as one having considerable experience. The man who buys land at 10s. an acre is paying what is equal to a rent of Gd. per a ere per annum. If he pays 5s. then he iR pay­ing what is equal to 3d. per acre per annum. [Mr. HARDACBE : Is that the way to help the pastoralists ?] It is the way for the Goyernment to deal with the Western lands, if they can do it, as a means of relieving the present neces­sities instead of retrenchment. I think 10s. an acre is too high in many case,, If there is no demand at 10s. an acre, I would reduce it to 5s. per acre, and even less if necessary, because I would have the value of the land governed by the demand and the market­that is its true value. With regard to lighterage dues, I am opposed to their imposition, because I think they would serve to retard the progress of commArce in th0 ports of Queen•land. As to the retrenchment policy, I am not in favour of a reduction of civil servants' salaries. I have always held that if retrenchment is necessary, and the service is overmanned, the superfluous otiicers should be dispensed with, but those who are fully occupied and earning the money they get should not be reduced in salary. 'Vith regard to the proposal to reduce the payment of m em hers and Mini,ters, I think, considering the reduction in the number nf Ministers, the salarie-< of other Ministers might have remained as they were. As to the members' salaries, l won.ld like to see the payment reduced to £150 per annum, which was the amount received in 18!13. As far a., I know, they got along- very well on that amount. A great deal of sympathy has been lavished upon the farmers in this debate in connection with railway rates, but except from the hon. member for Gregory I have heard very little said on behalf of the unfortunate individuals perishing out 'Vest, who are more entitled to sympathy than the farmer. During the last seven years farmers on the Downs and elsewhere have heen having a Yery good time, fattening on the misfortunes of the drought-stricken pc;ople in the \Vest, who have given them a market for all they could grow, and better prices than they ever received before. My sympathy is not extended so much to the farmers as to the \Vestern people. Looking back twenty­five years, I remember when the rate to Barcal­dine on certain occasions was £90 a ton, the average being £.IQ a ton; but now you can get wool down from Longreach at £7 or £8 a ton. 'Vhile I do not altogether approvA of the finan· cial proposals of the Government, I am not going

to condemn the whole of theil'finan­[9 p.m.] cial policy by voting for thF amend-

ment. Before conCluding, I should like to refer to the que'ltion of land tenure. The present misfortunes of the country are mainly attributable, a; I have said, to the drought. Three years ago the exports of purely pastoral products amounted to 313 per cent. of the total exports of the ~tate. \Vhat the decrease is now I do not know exactly, but I am sure they have come down two-thirds; and while that state of affairo> in regard to that particular industry con­tinues we cannot have a return of pros­perity. It has been oaid that as soon as we have rain things will be all right. But that is a very great mistake. That may be so with regard to the agricultural and dairying industry, but not in regard tothGpastoral industry. ~eeingwhat we have lost since 1H92, when we had :l2,000,000 sheep, and now we have only about 1,000,000, and somewhere under 3,000,000 cattle, I am sure from my knowledgE- of the industry that it will take fourteen or fifte8n years to put the pastoral industry into the position it occupied in 1892. And in considering this matter we come back to the question of tenure. We

1JTant of Confidence ~viotion. [29 JuLY.] TVant qf Oonfidenre Motion. 167

should give the pastoralists such. a. tenure as will enable them to secure the money they requi,.e to carry on their operations, and I hope that when this House is asked to grant such an ~xtended tenure to the lessees as will serve to resto1e that industry to some­thing like its former conditinn, the measure will be favourably considered. In the cc,urse of his remarks this evening the hon. member for Dalby said the attitude taken up hy the hon. member for Gregory and the hon. member for Leichhardt with regard to the Pastoral Leases Bill of last session was hostile. I belie,·e that is true, and tha\ the attitude of the hon. member for Gregory was the result of personal animus towards myself. I am sorry lo say that, but I believe it. At the conclusion of his speech on the second reading of the Bill, tbe hon. me m bet for Gregory said, "And I may tell the htm. member for North Brisbane that it gives me as much pleasure to vote aga.inst this Bill as it gave him to vote against a certain Bill the other day." The hon. member referred to the Shearers' Accomm•J­dation Bill. It was principally owing to tne hostile attitude of those two gentlemen, who were put up as the pastoral experts of that party, that the measure was >o abortive. Those hon. members di<l their utmost tn defeat every effort that I made to improve the Bill. The hon. member for Gregory also stated that every day he sa.w applic~tions made to come under the Act of l!JOl, and that practic,lly the whole colony would come under it. The facts are that there are 7SO pastoralists within the schedule of the 11'!84 .Act, which is affected by the .Act of 1901, and that up to the present moment, as I am informed on tl1e best authority, only 227 of the les,ees have made application to come under tbe Act. [Mr. IV. H,urn.TON: You have done all you could to prevent them making aprlication, :md ad vi,ed them not to come under the Act.] I certainly di· J so, for the reas<•n that I expressed last session-that the Act iR usele:-~~. Thos~ who have CIJUle under it rPgret having done so. [:\Ir. KIDSTOX : It was your own irieods who carried that Bill.] I do not think so. At any rate, it was the Labour party who prevented it being made a het tAr Bill. I do not wish to 1 ake up any further time, as l know that there are 'everal members who wish to speak. 1 only rose to draw attention to the matters I have referred to, and to state my intention of voting against the amendment, although I do not approve of the financial proposals of the Government as a whole; but l will take an opportunity later on of giving effect to my-disapproval.

Mr. HAltDAORE (Leichhardt) : Before tea the bon. memb0r for Dalby gave an interesting address, in the course of which be madR two statements, one of wllich has just been repeated by the hon. member for Btisbane ='forth, and that is that the hon. members fur Lt·ichhardt and Gre~<lry w,•re most bitterly hostile to the pastoralmdustry because they oppo,·ed the Bill of la.Rt Re8sion, ·w llich proposed to give the pas­toralists relief. That is a very unfair statement. vVhen that me, ·nre was introduced I ex­pressed the greatest sympathy with the pas­toral industry, on account of what they had suffered during the then exi,ting drought. I upjJosed the Bill, however, hec>1Uoe of tbe way in which it was drafted, the crudene'" of the scheme, and its objectiomtble details. The Bill gave far too much to pastoralists in some patts of the colony, the effect of which would be to lock up land required for settlement, while it did not give enough t0 pastoralists in other parts where it was nwst required, and where thc1e wa8 no chance of settlement. If that Bill had been introduced m a sensible and ·""ne fashion, it would have afforded relief to the pastoralists,

which would have had the effect of bringing mon<'y intc the country, and it has not done that because of the bungling and incapable way in which it was introduced. Everywhere the pastoralists themselves are con:l­plaining of the measure as no good, because 1t does not give them any certainty to enable them to go to financial institutions for relief. I pro­p3sed an amendment to enable the Government to appoint assistants to the Land Court to carry out the necessary work of classifying the runs, hut they refused that amendment, and with what result? In the Lands Department I was told that the measure was utterly unworkable, bEcause the Land Court could not possibly do the work. Those who prevented the proposed relief being passed in an efficient way were the Government themselve", who did not know enough to enable them to help their own friends. it is another example of the floundering incapa.city of the present Government. The trail of the serpent is over everything they do, They cannot even pass a Bill that will help their own friends. The hon. member for Dalby in complaining, like all other members, of the propo•als of the Government, said that he was not going to support the amendment because one of the proposals of the Labour party was a land tax. )Tow, he anil other members of the Darling Downs bunch signed, previous to the election, a platform which, arnong't other things, containe<l two planks. 9ne w;'" that . they would not !::iU}Jport auy u1creabe of ra1hvR.y rates, and another that they would not support a I ,nd tax. It is a verv strange thing indeed that all the members of the Darling Downs bunch who are pledged to op[.HJ.;e the<e two particular proposab arfl going to sur, port a Government which actually does the very thing that they are pledged to vote n.gainst. I was amused the other night by the speech of the hon. me m her for Lockyer, who tried hard to evade giving his vote against the Government. He reminded 1ne very n1ucb of the celebrate·l cartoon in P'tuWh characterising Lord lt.nssell as writing '·No Pop.~ ry n on a wall· and then running away. I was reminr1ed alt->o of a character in Bnnyan's ·~ Pilgrin1's Progress"-· •• ll-'Ir. Facing Bt>thwa'"·"_ I c..1n nnder.:;tand why ,ome members of the Darling D.rwns hunch are going to support the Government .. There is £or in:-;tance, the n1e:uber for Cunnmgham, JYir. Kate~, who, while he suppr;r~s the Gover:l­m~nt generally, attack' the :.\Iunoter for Rail­way~ on his increa.sed rail way rate.s, becau~e he wantr; t<' obtain the :'liinister's billet. He io only following out hi>· own statement to the electors of Cunninghan1 that he was going to 1nake. t~e Government do away "ith two or three JYimls­ters, and he wa., going to have one of their places. 'VVe can easily understand the attitude of the hon. n1etnber. · However, it iti n.n1ostrernarkable thing that the Darling Downs bunch, who are pledged to oppuse all these increaser\ burdens. on the fanner~ of their district, are now corrnng forwn.rcl in SUlJ}JOI't of a Governrnent who are increasing- tbe burdens of the farmurs. _'vV e are going to h;} ve increa~ecl t"-til wa.y ratet', and a lal?-d tax which is fdr more unfair to the country d1s· tricts than any land tax which vmuld have been proposed by this side. 'fhe land tax proposed by the Gov~rnment is going to perm!t th: towns1. where lancl1s valuable, to escape then fa1r shnre. and the whole burden is going to be put on the country districts. [2\olr. ToLmE: Ha vP they not had a diYisimml board tax all along?] ~hey have, and 1 t was increased last ye~r by the reduction of the endowment. Thtb vear the Tremmrer it3 going t.) reduce the endow­inent still further, and he calls that a land tax. In reality it is a tax on the poor landowner,,, while th rich landowners are allowed to escape scot free. I wcmt now to come to the financial

168 lVant qf Confidence 1V£otion. LA8SEM.BLY.J Wunt qj' Cm!ftrlence Motion.

pr,>posals of the Government, and I must say that personally I sympathise t0 a great extent with the Treasurer in the .Financial Statement he has made. I sympathise with him because he has, unfortunately for himself, been appointed to that position by his friends in a \·ery troublous and difficult time, and on each occasion that he has been compelled to deliver "' Financial Statement it has been one involving a tleficit larger than has ·ever before occurred in the history of the colony. At the same time he is a member of the GO\·ern­ment which has brought these deficits upon us, and therefore he should be held responsible with them. The other night, when the statement was made that the two successive deficits which have occurred last year and this year were the largest sncce,sive deficits in tbe history of the colony, the hrm. member for Carpentaria adrrpted a very disingenuous device to try and refute that state­n1ent. He tor1k two years previously where there were very lat·ge defic:ite, and added tbent together, and they came ltearly to the same amount as the two successive deficits of last vear and thie. But what did he do? He quoted the years 181'16·7 where there was a deficit of £45?i,OOO brou,;ht about by the Gritfith Govern­ment, and then he went on to 1888-!l tn another deficit of £486,000 brought about by the More­head Government, and with a surplus in between, and the two deficits were not as much as the two succe•·;ive deficits brought about by the present Governrnent. He forgot to state that everv Go­vernment-both in this colony and in Yictr;ria­which mismanaged the finances in thiR u-ay were tnrned out of office; and we are asking in our anwndment that this Parliament should turn out the GnvPrnnH:mt which is incaJmble of manw,.ing the linances of the colony. The Treasurer ~uts down the deficits which ha,·e occurred to "two causes-drought :md federation. He says it had been denied that the Commonwealth tariff and the drought had been inportant factors in the deficit: butthoeeare mere windy, empty assertions. It can be proved that wbateYer dis»&tcr the drou1<ht is to this countr:-·, "" far it h»s not rr,duced the revenue. There has been year after year for the last eight ur nine year>, with the exception of one year. u grad nal!y increasing re\·ernw. I will take only r.wn years: In 18~Hi-7 there was a re­venue of £3,f>13,000, anrl the p•ar before last 1 he revenue amounted to £4,09(;,000-or a difference of £483,000. And yet, with that increase of nearly half a million of monev, the (;overnn,ent coulcl not manage thre affairs of the State without a deficit of 0\'f'r £500,000. Iu support of my stat.~n1en~, I c tn quote frnn1 the CrJU1'if''i', the ludmg paper nf the colony, in which it says that the re\'enue state of the tinancP~are in a most satisfactory condition. :Further, in support of my statement, I will take what is shown by the Treasurer~.,~ own li'inancial Statnment-that is, thftt in eY.'ry department, with one exception, ther"' "rore mere;"'" th c vear before last. TherP was then an 1ncrwse in all the departments, except tbu Customs revenut·, of £118,000, and, if it haclrtot been for th~ federal tariff anri th• Common­wealth collectioll,, there w<>ulrl have been an actual increase in the re,·enue. This is pro' eel by the return published by the Customs office which shows that the imports and expert~ i14;creased ne,.rly £300,000 last year: and. thae­fore, if the duties had been collected under our

ordinary tariff we should have had [!J·30 p.m.] an increa,,e in Customs revenue.

Therefore, whatever effect the drought has had on our industries. it hac· not affected the Treasury. That the ~Treasu~y is in a sonnd position is demonstrated by the State Treasurer's own Statement. The real reason of our deficit is the lack of foresight, the bungling 1ni~1nanagernent, and the rf'cklesf:: expendi· tnre of the present Covern1nent. Every year

there has been an increasing revenue, and there has been a still faster inc1·ease in nur expenditure, amountin~ to almost .£1,00li,OOG more than it was four year; ago. Smne of t hm,e increases I admit have been justifiable. The hon. member for Carpentaria pointed out a number, and asked if we objected to them. It is very easy to compile a number of item" to which there is no objection, but he cardully forgrrt to mention a number of things \\'hich were objectwnable, and I intend to .-.ur,p1y the mni~sion;:;. .~First we have bad £1i0,000 spent 011 a railway station in Brisbane that was not required for many years to come. [The PREMIER: That is not paid out of revenue.] I knrJW it comes out of loan money, hut we have to pay interest on loan money. Then there is £144,000 on the Bri.,ham• Lands Office. The railway works at Ipswich, built on a site under flood, in an electorate represented by the 'I'reasnrer, are to cost £300,000. Roma, repre­sented by the Attorney·Geneml, has had a eourthouse costing £7,000 and a gaol costing £15,000. [The HO'IIE SECRE'!\\RY: Not a penny of that has been spent } et.] 'Well, the Attorney­General, in speaking to the Roma electors on the 9th ,January, included the courthouse and the gaol amongst the items of expenditure he had got for the district, and he waH careful to tell them thB.t he had twenty times the influence nf an ordinary member of P<Lrliament. Then we have hundreds of thousands of ponnc's spent on harbour works at Townsville, the electorate represented by the Premier. l The PRE;\I!ER : All borrowed by the Towns\'ille Harbour Board, who will pay both the principal and the intenst.] Then there is the money spent on the Ayr tramway. [The PREi.IIIER: Tnwnsville is paying- the interest on that, too.] There is also, on the Supplementary Loan Esti­mate before m, an item of £27,000 for the Townsville Custom-honse. Altogc;ther there has been an expenditure on things of this kind, wit bin th>· b•1t four years, of nearly £500,000, on which we have to pay intt-rest, and which is part of the expenditure which has caused our present deplorable deficit. [The PRE~l!ER: The interest on £:)00,000 is £1G,OOO a year. J Then there have been ninety-ReYen new appointn:1ents. ranging ~rum f;300 to £3,000, oome of which were not requii·ed, such as the immigration lecturer in Ireland, :\fajnr I,yons, and the immigration lecturer in Germany, the Hon. ,T. C. Heussler. There have also been lots of consolation stakes m the shape of Royal Con1mit'sions on mines. lands, raihvay~, licensing, Governn1ent I~rinting, public wo>·ks, boiler>', and so on; costmg £0,000 or £10,000. Hail way., ha'e been built wholesale in Government electorates, against which hon. members on this side fought all thry could when they were proposed, and which have resulted not only in loss of interest on cost o£ construction, hnt in lo~~ on working expt>nse~. There is the Clmrleville to Cnnnarnulla Hailway, which cost £2!8.000, awl the annmd interest on which is £1\0,000. It has not paid wnrkinc: expenses. The line from Eagle ,Junction to Pinkenba co.,t £'ill, 000, the interest on which is £2,fi00 a yr :w. It cost, in addition to interest, £l,fl00 last. year. There is the line from Brunswiek street to the sug"r works. \V e had the line from Mayne to Enoggera, which runs through certain people's property. [The Hm!lc SEORJ<;TARY: That is a guarantee railway to begin with, and the member for t.he district at the time was in oppocition.] Yee; but he opposed the railway because of the properties it went through. It co:;t £4G,OOO, and the interest bill is £1,800 a year, anrl last year, besides the amount that wa., obtained from the guarantors, it cost us £1,377. In the Northern division we find the Hughenden-Win ton Railway, which cost £:l40,0UO: the interest amounts to £12,000,

1Vaut 1[/ CoJ!fidenee 1'1i~otion. [29 JULY.] TV(mt qf Col?fidence _1Wotion. 169

and last year the loss on working expenses was £6,"100. Then we have the celebrated n1irani-Uattle Creek Railway, which runs into a pocket, where there IS nothing to carry except firewood, and ends in land owned by the Hon. P. l'erkinn and the Secretary for Agri­culture. The annual loss on workinu expenses alone is £4,600. Then we have 'the Bates dredges ancl the tank engines. But the worst feature in connection with the whole thing is that the Uovernment propose to continue this policy just as badly as ever. They propose now to bnild two other railways neither of which will pa~· for the grease used'on the axles of the lu~omntiYes. There is the line from Hughenden to Richmond. :Fancy building a railway at a time like this, when there ;s not even gr~'l.~8 for "-:took along it, at an expense of <>bout £300,000, and at a time when they are retrenchillg railway employees anrl putLing· a poll tax o!l evt'ry poor 1-j .. 1 Yant girl in the country ; 1 t i ~ a ca.:;e of saving tJd. ou tLe one hand and "pending hundred, of poulld' on the other. Then just before the elections we had the railway begun from Warwick towardo< Goondi­windi-a line that will run throuah flooded country, through prickly pear aml brigalow scrub, where there is not enough feed for a. wallaby. Every expert who has ever been asked to rteport on the line ha• condemned it as certain to prove unremunerative. [Mr. KATE~ : A rail­way that ought to havf' been built many years ago.] A railwav that should never be built while there are fertile 'srJnts in the country that demand nil ways, and a t'"ilway that would not be built if it was not rtpresented by members who sup· port the Government. It would not even have been commenced had the Gnvernment not wanted to secur<e votes in both those electorates. [l'.Ir. KATR8 : The money for the railway was voted fifteen years· ago.] Opportunely, just before the late elec:.:<ms th~re 'vere a nurnher nf con1plainb sent down to Br1sbane that the people in the disclict wee e ;most anxious tu ha\·e the rail way constructed, and t_here was an f-'xtrernely bitter feeling bt>cause the Gove~nment were not going on \vlth i.t. The Premier was inten·iewed, and bP. said that there wen~ plentv of nther railw<.~vs thaL hacl tJ!)t

been started. and one of them-the Hu.,benden­Richmond li;,e-would pay far better. ~o\.ud the strong man of the Ministry, th< Secretary for Railway~, was not going to allow the Govern. ment to br, rtl'herl into thi- m:ctter. But another repnrt C>tme down st~.ting that, unless tl,ings altered, the electors of Iuglewood and Goondi­windi were determined to vot<e against the Govennnellt candidate as a protest against the insincere and half-hearted manner in which the border line was being constructed--or, rather was not being constructed. \Vhen that report came down the strong ruan eaved in, and the eco· nornica.l Prf:'mier, who now wants to retrench the poor servant girl, and the wise Tre~tsurer agreed to begin the line. That is the way in which the Government have been economising in the past. The Financial Statement says that, in addition to the drought, the other e,mse of the deficit is the operation of federation. But who was respon,ible for running this country into the mire in which it finds it,,e!f to-day? [Mr. DKI\"HAM: The fellows who voted for federation.] Ye•, the Government ''oted for it. I opposed it, and I warne(l the Honse several tirnes that, as our tariff was the highest in Australia, the inevitable result must be that the representatives of the other States would all want to bring down the tariff to the level of other colonies, 'and, there­fore, it must lead to a lower tariff than Queens­land. Is it not a pitiable thing that the Government, at the most critical jnnctnre in the history of the colony, were not

able to see an inch before thair noses? They gave the powers and finances of <.lueensland away to the otlwr States, and now they are bewail­ing the result of their own incompetency. And even when they saw that the resnlt of federa­tion would be loss of Customs revenue, they did not take steps to meet the difficulty. The fact that we were going to have a big loss owing to the federal tariff was pointed out to the Pre1nier in this House las~ V"'HT. It was pointed out by the Federal Treasurer himself, Sir G. Turner, at that time. [The PREMIER: \Yho is responsible for the federal tariff but the Labour party? J If the Labour party had not been there the federal tariff would hnve meant a loss to our Customs revenue. [The PRgMIER: Xothing like what it has been.] Sir George Turner, a~ fsr back a~ Seplember last year, called attention to the dangerons posi­tion of Queensland in respect to the tariff, and the loss that wa~ likely to OCClll' in our Cnstnrns revenue this year->t !o•s of at lnst £1:l7,000. Tow arch t be 'end of the sessiun I a,;ked the Premier and the Treasurer w!Jat they were going to do in the face of thif:. Io.-.~ on the Cus~ toms re,·en ue ? And thry said they were going to do nothing. They allow•·d the colony to drift, in the face of the deficit t.ln v knew would Ctlme abon t. On the :Financial Statement last ye:>r, I challenged the Treasurer's estimate of what we were going- to ha Ye from Customs, the estimated amount being the oame as that of the previous year. I said his estimate was a delu­sion, and it was an impertinence to the intel­ligence of members to expect the111 to believe that we were going to get the :-oame as the year before. Ancl I pointed ont that the Treasurer knew it \Vas not going tt, be the ~a me, because in an interview with the Brisbane Teleg1'f<ph he pointtecl out that we we· e likely to lose some­thing like £300,000. In the face of that the Premier and the Tre: surer allowed the colony to go on without making auy provision at all till after the election was uver. How can anv man who desires the prns]JPrit>- of Queensland st;pport a Trea-,urer or a Pren1i~r \vho brings forward Estirua'es like that~ [The PRE~lfl':l\: \Ve have the "'pport of the majority, at. any rate.] The hon. gentleman has nothing- tn brag about in his majority. He has only a majoriLy of voters, and he only got a n1ajority uf rnernhers in the Southern part of Queensland. The Central and Northern di dsionsreturned a mojority of members against th~ Government: 60,000 ,-otes were given for Lttbonr and Independent Op]'nsition candi­dates, and .>1,300 for candidates on the other side. ['The Pm~mB;R: You are wrong. There were 5!!,000 for this side and fiO.OOO for the other.] If the Premier eounts his votes like the Treasurer makes his Estimates, I can quite understand how he arrives at those figures. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman says, "Let us get out of our difficulty by selling land.,. Last year they pro­posed to '•ipe off a deficit of £528,000. They issued Treasury bills to con>r the deficit, and were going to sell land to pay off the Treasury bills. [The PRE}fTlm: In ten year,.] They were told at that time that thev could not sell land, but what have they done?' They searched high and low for purcha"·r:;. They sent Mr. Board all over Queensland to t.ry and find pur­chasers and Mk peop!P, for (~od 's sake, to come and buy our land. [The l'RE"IIElt: \Ve never sent .Mr. Board anywhere.] He went, at any rate, and catoe back and reported that there were no purchaser". 'l'hey were going to sell :i,OOO acre:; to the poor selector, and out of all (Jueensland they have sold only one

larp:e estate, and £25,000 is all they [10 p.m.j have recei\'ed to pay a deficit of

£500,000. That estate has been pur­chased by Fairbairn Brothers, who :tre playing

170 Want qf' Confidence .i1£otion. [ASSEMBLY.] Want of' Cuu:fidence .Motion.

the part of monopolists and preventing settling around the township in th" district where the estate is situated. The year before last the Treasurer estimated that he would have a sur­plus, hut instead of a surplus he had a deficit of £500,000. He made a wrong estimate of revenue to the extent of £267,000, and a wrong estimate of expenditure amounting to £4\JS,OOO, so that he made a mistake of £76il,OOO in his Estimates for that year. [The PRDIIER: You are quite wrnng.] I say I am not wrong. [Hon. E. B. J<'oRREST : \Vhat w'" the deficit for that year?] I am speaking of the difference between the estimate and the realisation, otnd thi' shows that we have an incapable Treasurer. Last year a similar thing occurred. '.rhe Treasurer anticipated that he would receive in revenue a sum of £3,900,000, and he only received £3,53fi,OOO-a difference of £375,000. The expenditure he estimated at £3,887,000, and it amounted to £8,9137,000-a difference of £SO,OOO. If we add these two together we find that the Treasurer made a mistake of £455,000. I could do as well myself. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman has given us a lot of estimate• for this year, and similar results will accrue. A pastoral expert on the Government side, who knows as much about the \Vestern cr,untry as 'my man in this House, says that the Tre:csnrer lutR made a mistake in his estimate of the amount that will be received as territorj,,J revenue to the extent of £200,000. That is a nice state of thing-s 1 Are members in this House to sit still, and v:Jte for a Government who cannot bring fnrward more reliable Estimates than that? I say that if any Government deserves to be put out of office it is this Government, who dare to pnt forward snch misleading Bstinu.teH. Then in stamp duties he made a mistake of £±7,000 last vear-exactly one of the thinge we told him wmild happen. · \Ve told him that there vmuld be an evasion of the stamp duty. :"ow the Treasurer comes along and says, "I made a mistake; the people have evaded the stamp duties juBt as you told me they would, nnd my anticipations have not been realised." Then we are told that there is to be an increase of £138,000 in the receipts from rail ways. He must be a most sanguine man who anticipates that in the face of the pre­sent drought, the losse.; of 'tock and the im­poverishment of the people, he will derive an increased revenue from the railways. The Trea­surer also anticipates that there will be a small increase in the tariff re\·e1me, but instead of an increase I believe we are going to have a clecrease. ~\.ny n1an with con1n1on sense who has studied the federal tariff can come to no other conclusion than that there must be a decrease of revenue under it., seeing that the duties have been reduced 1.0, 13, and even 25 per cent., and that the,e reductions will come into operation next year. The Treasurer will then eome along and say, ''I didn't know enough to predict " yc1r ahead. I am out in my calcula­tions with rt>gard to the CustomE revenue, and we have another deficit." I give the Premier otnother twelve months to run. He will then have dragged the colony so much into financial disaster that he himself will bP. glad to escape from the responsibilities of the position, otnd if he is not, tho peonle of the country will no longer support him in the office. Every Government which ha.-; m •nnt;ed the ctffairs of the country like the Treasurer has managed our affai.rR haR aJways come to grief in financial crises. That was the case in Victoria and :"ew Zealand, and it will be the c~'e in Queensland next year, when the people will se,y there is no h .. ne of the country being brought out of its difficulties by the present Governm•'nt. The Premier now proposes certain measures to meet the deficit of next year. They ha'e not met the difficulties of last year

yet. What are they going to do? They had' £528,000 deficit, for which they floated Treawry bills, which are hanging up in the air backed by nothing. They promised to provide for them by the sale of land, but they cannot sell the land. \Ve have had twelve months of that policy, otnd it has failed. Then they have not provided in any way in their financial proposals to meet this ye:u's deficit. Are they going to hang that up in the air, too'? They have not told us how they are going to meet the £428,000 deficit of this year, and therp will be another deficit next year. Now I want to deal with the Secretary for Railways, and what I am going to say I say with considerable regret. In the past I have had a very friendly regard for th~ Secretary for Railways, but I must confess that smce he became a Minister he seems to have lost control of himself. He has become, I am sorry to say, impertinent in his HJanner, in&ulting in his remark&, dog­matic in his argume.nts, and unreliable in his statements. I h•ve heard a description of a gentleman being intoxicated with his own ver­bosity, and I never saw that description more suitablv applied than to the hon. gentleman. The hon. gentleman pours out, without knowing what !w s~ys, a torrent of froth, figures, and mud. He used to impre~s upon ns that there were two things which one should always verify~your watch and your figures, but he ha" not ma,de that statement for a long time. l¥hy? Because he knows it would be met with derisive laughter. :No one believes the hon. gentleman's figures now, because we know \vhatever he says the very opposite is the truth.

The SPEAKER : Order !

::\Ir. HARD ACRE: As far as figures are con­cerned. \Vbatever figures he brings forward, you can bet anything at all that they have no reference to the ca<e, or else they are relevantly of no value to the argument. The figures he h-ave us the other night had no refere~1ce to Queensland. \Vhat is the use of compt•nng the railway mtes of other colonies to those of queensland, where we hn,ve railways running through long distances with large distances between the stations and the other colonies having shorter distance railways and closer population? \Vh<C'ther the rate>; are higher or lower in the other colonies does not affect the question. Here is the fundamental fact: At a time when the inland population is suffering as they never suffered in the history of Queensland hefore; when they are suffering from a drought which is almost a r;henornenon ; when our stock r1re dying in thousands; when the men who have battled for twenty ><nd thirty years are losing the savings of a lifetime ; when the people are in despair; when In any cannot even get a bag of flour ; when, as I know to be the case, men are walking about with " bluey" on their backs begging for charity ; when one-third of the population of the inland towns are driven to catching opossums and selling their skins in order to get enough to pay for food for their families-is this a time to impose fresh hmdens in the ,.flape of increased rail way rates? I know of one town contnining less than 100 male adults, and not loss than thirty-one are eking out an existence by catching opossums and selling- their skins. Is this the ti>YJe when the Minister should make use of his department as a taxation in~trument tn rai::;e revenue where­with to meet the deficiency? Talk about fair taxation ! The Premier the other day said he was going to impose taxation upon those best able to bear it. ls that making the people who can best stand it bear the burden? I say it is making the poorest members of the community pay. It is a mean and contemptible policy on the part of the rich landowners of Brisbane, on

Want qf Confidence Jldotion. [29 .)my.J W<mt qf Confidence Motion. lil

the part of the we,lthy members of the com­munity, to place th" burden of our disaster and difficulti"< on the poorest section of the com­munity. I am ast>arned of such a policy. If I were a wealthy landowner in Queen street, I would rather bear double taxation on myself than make these poor people out in the W e,;t bear increased rail way rates. It is the policy adopted by the aristocracy during the l<'rench Revolution, when the phrase was that they went by the palaces of the rich to tax the hovels of the poor. I want to show how this affects the interior. It is most unfair taxation because it places the burden on the least favoured portion of the community. The people in the coastal towns do not use the railways to anything like the same extent as the people in the ·western districts. The people in the West are dependent on the railway system, and the result is that they have to pay more than their fair share of the increase of the railway freights. The other night it was said that these increased rate~ would not affect the Darling Downs people so much, because the burden would fall on the consumer. I say it will fall on the producer as well as the consumer, but the consumers in the \Vestern districts will have to pay most of this increased taxation, as they will not pay on the classes of products which come under the lowest rates--Classes M, A, and B-bnt it will be on general merchandise that they will lmve to pay most. At Ipswich. under Class 1, they will haw to pay an extra 8<1. per ton ; at Toowoomba, an extra 3s. Hd.; at Emerald an extra 5s. 2d.; at Roma an extra Ss. 3d. ; 3t Barcaldine an extra 9s. ld. ; at Longreach an extra 10s. tiel. ; at Charleville an extra lls. 9d.; at Cunnamulla an extra 12s. Sd. In Class 2 the increases are as follow :-Ipswich, 1s.; Tnowoomba, 4s. 7d. ; Emerald, 7s. -1d.; Roma, 13s. -1d.; Barcaldine, J.!s. ld. ; Longreach, 15s. 2d. ; Charleville, 15s. 9d.; and Cunnamulla, His. 10d. Then for Class 3 they are: Ipswich, iid.; Toowoomba, 5s. 7d.; Emerald, 9s. Sd.; Roma, 19s. 2d.; Bar­caldine, .£1 Os. 7d. ; Longreach, .£1 1s. 5d. ; Charleville, £1 1s. lld. ; and Cunnamulla, .£1 3s. Sd. Now, is that a fair imposition of taxation? I believe the JI/Iinister for Rail ways h!\s almost done an unconstitutional thing, for if the Government desired to raisP more revenue from the rail ways he should first of all have placed his ]JropoRals before this House, as the Treasurer has done with his proposals. The Minister and the hon. member for Carpentaria said that these increased railway rates were going to lead to increased revenue, but I know that up to the present these rates have led to less revenue. The hon. member for Carpentaria compared figures for three weeks in this J ulv and three weeks in ,July last year, bllt that is an unfair comparison. Take two months, when there were no increases in the railway rates . • June last year the railway revenue was £103,000, and ,June this year it was .£122,000, an increase of £19,000, and the point that the people antici­pated increased rates I do not think would account for this increase. The other night I asked the Minister for Railways if I went to his department, would I be furnished with the figures the hon. member for Carpentaria bad. I went on Saturday, and I left a letter asking for the figures for June, .July, and May. I oaw the secretary to the Commissioner, whoisalwaysconr­teous to members of Parliament, and he gave me the figures for June and July as a fair compari­son. I left another letter asking the Minister to let me have the information I asked for, and it was refused. [The PREMIER: It was published.] No, it was not for May, ,Tune, and July. And by the Minister refusing to give me this information it only showed that he dared not give it, for it would show that there

has been a reduction in the raihvay revenue. '.rbere is evidence of this from Ipswich, from Cairns, fron• i\Iaryboroug-b, where the Mount Perry Copper l\1ine is closing down, and from other places. I am as sure of this as I stand here: t.hat next year we shall have the same ,tory as we have now-another deficit., more mi"takes m the Treasurer's Estimates, and we will be deeper in the depression and disaster than we are to-day. The only possible way out of the difficulty is for members of this House to put party feelings aside, look the position straight in the face, and ask themselves whether a Ministry like this can possibly get us out of our difficulties.

Mr. TOL:NIIE (Drayton and Too>voornua): I desire to say a few words before the debate closes, and I shall endeavour to confine my remHrks to the amendment, with the exception that I shall make some reference to the matter of increased railway rates and freights. It is evident that hon. gentlemen on the Opposition benches have given a grea.t deal of consideration to the attitude of Downs representatives. In the early part

of the debate there was an intense [10'30 p.m.] desire shown to know how those

members were going to vote. They recognised that those members practically hold the key of the situation, and that were they to go over to the other side the Government would be turned nut of office. Earnest appeals have been made to them by mHmbers of the Labour pa.rty--and by none more warmly than by my colleague in the representation of Drayton and Toowoomba-to do their duty. The members for the Darling Downs may be allowed to think for themselves as to what is their duty, and I have no doubt they will carry out what they deem to be their duty irrespective of any appeal that may be made to them by hon. members on the other side. Downs members occupy a somewhat unique­p0siti0n at preeent. \V e practica 1ly hold the balance of power. That po,;ition is one of great respon~ihility, and coneeqnently we have to dis­charge it in the way best CH!cnlated to forward the interests of the whole of (-ln<>ensland. We have to "atisfy the electors of Qneenc,land that we ,hould be doing the right thing- in telling the Government that if they do not do exactly as we wish we will go over to the other side, and put them out of office. I am prepared to vote against the Government, and to put the Government out, but I must be satisfied that I am going to substitute for that Government a b8tter one. If hon. members on the other side could show us that it is possible for them to form a Govern­ment better calculated to advance the in­terests of the State, no doubt we would a"sist them to do so. The !JOsition is that 0n the other side there are two parties, and that together they Me not sufficiently strong to oust the Government. They make overtures to cer­tain members on this side who are disaffected, btc.cmse they believfl the interest, they· represent have not been fairly treated, and ask them to corne across the House--a section who, to a large extent, hold view J diametrically opposed to t.heirs-and form a tempornry union with them for the purpose of turning out the Government so that they may cross to this side. I hope the day is far distant when queensland will have to submit to the indignity of having any number of iis legislators bound together solely bv the motive of self-interrs~-- The amendment of the acting leader of the Opposition is to the effect that the proposals of the Government are unsatisfactory. No proposals by any Government that tend to increase taxation have ever proved satisfactory. It would be ju't the same if the opposite party were in power and introduced financial proposals tending· to increase the burdens of the electors of the State. A how 1 of indignation would g-o np. Conse<{'Hmtly, we are in this position: \Vhile

172 Want of Confidence L1fotio;z. [ASSEMBLY.] 1Vont qf Coi?fideJ!I'e JJ1otion.

the Government proposals are unsatisfactory­as I admit they are to me-I bave to consider whether any financial proposal·' that may be submitted by the other side will be wore 'atis· factory to the State. Up to the pre>ent, the actm,- leader of the Opposition has given us no indication as t:J the direction in which he would legislate financially if we would assist him to turn out the G"vernment. He tells us that it will be time enough for the doctor to prescribe when he is sent for. Ever since that phrase was noecl bv an illustrious st.atesman we all delight to hon.our, every political incompetent, every pohtical mountetJank, has endea\·oured to shelter himself behind it. Not that I for a moment attribute either political incompetency or political mounte­bankism to the leader of the Opposition. It is the duty of the hnn. member to tell this House, and those whom he E>xpects to assist him in -carrying his amendment, on what lines he intends to proceed. There should be no necessity to ask him to do this. li'ailing any indication on his part as to the direction in which hE- pro­poses to legislate, we are driven back upon the platform of the Labour party. There i,, a gre"t ,deal in that platform with which I distinctly dioagree, and, in the absence of any intimation from the hon. member a' to the direction in which he intends to proceed, we must come to the conclusion that his desim is to impose all the taxation that is foreshadowed in the platform of his party. I faney that the elector> would be pretty much in the position of those who went to Rehoboam to plead for better conditions. Rehoboam called tog-ether his young men-evidently the hon. member has <::J.lled together his young men-and certain advice was gjven him. llel·oboam then said to his people: ' My father mad·• your yoke heavy and I will adrl to yuur yoke; mr father also chastised yon witb whip~, but I will ehastise you with scorpions .. , The Labour party would chastise the producers of Queensland with scorpions. \Ye have listened to the disingenuous advice of the hon. member for Leichh,crdt-I may even say of my own colleaguE' in the representation of Toowoornba--and other members on the opposite side, who ba,·e striven to induce this House to believe that the Govern· ment are imposing a land tax. [1\Ir. :F'ocARTY: In the Governor's Speech it distinetly ,ays so.] It says so in the same way '" I tiel it during the election c·•mpaign. I said that we hava a land tax already in existence, but that is not the lane! bx of the Labour phtform. [Go­vernment Members: Hear, hear:] The present land tax is one that is imvosed upon the people in a district solely 3.t the will of the people in that district. It has been contended that the members representing Darling ~llowns constitn­enoies came here pledged to oppose the rail wuy freights. Now, I want to make it perfectly clear that in the Illf>nifesto we i"3ued to the electors of the Darling Downs we put the good of the C:itate before the good of thP Darling DownB. [Govern· ment members: Hear, hear!] And in reference to thi' very matter of the railwuy freights-­[Mr. :B'OGARTY: At my "ugge ,tion.] I am afraid it was not at the hon. member's suggestion. 'We stated in our manifesto: "The rerJuction of rail· way freight., on farm produce to the ]qwe<t point consistent with justice to the general taxpayers." [Mr. :b'oGARTY: That w.ts at my suggestion.] It conld aot ha'\'e been donn nt rny colle.1gue ·s sng-ge~~ tion, becanse he was not present when this nulni­festo was drawn up. [~\li-e. ]<'oGARTY: I sugge,ted that at the meeting at Dalby, and it was unani· rnously accepted.)

The SPEAKIDR : Order !

!VIr. TOLMIE : I want to make it cle er to the House that, although there b such a thing in existence as a Darling Downs comiJinatinn, that

combination is not working wlely for the good of the Darlin'S Downs, but for thP good of (lueens­lane as well, and tlmt we put the good of the general tax po,yers before the good of any particular section of the community. And, besides, we may be given credit for pos­sessin(T a certain anwunt of common sense. Do s:ven or eight n1mnb'3rs repreAenting the Darling Downs i;nagine that they are g.,ing to run the wbule of this State? [Mr. KrnsTOK : You are tellinoo us now that you are.] 'Ne are telling you n';thing of the sort. \Ye are telling the House that we are ~oing- to exercise our common sense, and that we endeavour to work together with a singleness of purpose in order to achieve any g-<!od that may be achieved for our particular di,trict; but we are not so mad as to ask fDr anything that is not applicable to the other par· tions of Queensland as welL Although in ;;ome respects we feel that we have been hlJ:rdly ~ealt with in consequence of the ratet- bmng raised, s sill there is some cnmpensation for us. Formerly for full truck loads of maize, barley, oats, hay, and chaff, dumped, bran, pollard, and potatoes from To<>woomba to port we were charged Ss. IOd. per ton, while we are now charged 9s. 3d. -an increaRe of 5:.-1. a. ton. Now, do hon. n1em­bers opposite think we are going to throw the Governmc·nt out because there is a difference of ;,d. per ton? [ \[r. KmsTON: Your devotion is proof against 5d. a ton.] l\1y devotwn JS perhaps proof against a gond many things that the hon. m em l1er's devotion is not. Hay and chaff, undumped, formerly was 118. ld. per ton to Brisbans in full truck loads, and now the charg-e is 9s. 3d.-a difference of ls. IOd. Are we to throw ont the Gmernment on that account? From one point of view I think it is a mistake to increase freight, und fares. Persons may be induced to travel more if the fares are not excessive ; and I believe there will be a tendencv on the part of manY persons tr, travel less than formerlv on account of the fares being raised. I have "always endeavoured to induce the Commisclioner to iower freights and fares a~:~­rnuch :<s po;sibh, though I recognise that th~re must be a minimum below which a rednctwn mmld C('ase to be of advantage to the State. I take serious exception to the action of the Rail way Department in one respect. \Vith regard to the privilege rates that were allowed to the rail way mnpluyeee,. I think a ~reat rnishke has been made in taking them ~wav. It wa~ stated the other night that this concession was given to the employees in 1894 when retrenchment took place, but the conces­sion goes back much further than 18!14. I believe that from the initiation of our railways it was the custom for the employees to have an annual picnic, special trains being grantee~ for the purpo3e; but, as the bnsmese of the Sta~e increased, this became objectionable, because It was found that a great deai of public incon­venience resulted; cnnsequently, when the rail­ways )•assed over to the hancfs of the Rail way Commissioners, they decide I, in lieu of the concession, to allow the employees to travel during the ye:tr at cheaper rates. The railway employees cll1not exercise the same _Privilege as other people in the matter of travelling. \Vhen there is a show or anything that wiil , attract people to any place, the railway people nave to be at work. It is true that they get an annual holiday, but the holiday they get when ev.ery­bndy else is at work is not equivalent to a hohday when other people are enjoying themselves. I believe an error has been made in withdrawing this privilege; and from what I have bee_n told by people competent to form an _optmon, I believe Lhe loss to the department will be from £7 000 to £10 000 a year. I hope that in impos­ing the inco~e tnx. there will be some 1ninimun1

[2fl ,Jt:LY.j TVant '!!' CuJ:fidence .11otion. 173

£xed. The Government manage Dunwich, I think, at an average cost of us. a week per inmate; ::tnd if a man :ond his wife, with a family of six, live as barely ns the people <tt i Dunwich, it will cost them, living at that rate, £2 lk a w~ek. But w,· know that the majority of lalwuring rnen in this State are not earning anything like .£2 8>. a week-I question very n1u(~h if the average amonnt is anyUJing like the half of £2 Ss. a week-and if we red nee the incomes of people earning le.-s than £100 per annum we are forcing down their standard of living below wb!Lt it ought to he. There should be no desire on the part of the legi:>lature t·' make rLny cbs of l''">ple endurc an unnecessary hard­ship. (Hear, t>ear.) If there were prosperity all over the State, and the Minister for R"ilways endea\·oured to raise the rates ns he is doing at the present time, I believe that. all bun. memb<-rs ri-'presenting fanning cont~titue11Cies would he justified in walking •>Ver to the otlwr side ,,f the Hon~~e; hut it is evident that tht• Guvernn1ent are doing the br~st they can under t hn circutn~ stances. The leader of the Oppo,ition has 110t givfm u~ any indication as to wharJ his financial : poliey \t>/Onld be, bth l1c has allowed it to be in~

1

fern·d that hew(;uld put intooJ_,~ration a land tax, tht; na.tu1e of vvhiclt \V(-': do not know, and an

incorne t".X, which may be nwre [11 p.m. J rJr;;sl ic t!Jan the one now proposed by

thP G·~~vennnent. And in addition to that he ill fur her reduce· 1 he expenditure on the civil service by .£300,000, and when we know tint at the present rate of reduction we m''Y not have a. service ::ts efficient as it ought to bP, 1 think I nlll jtwtified in voting Dgainst the amend­ment of t.he leader of the Opposition.

~Ir. TlTRNER (Rockha.mpton North): \Ve are told that there are two eaus"s of the present depression-federation and the drought. I am not pes.;;imistic OVI:'I the drought. During the drought of 188-i-ii the fiucks and herds of New ~onth \Vt:de::. WPre rednced in value from .£1il,OOO,OOO to .£1:!,000,000, and the vrLlue of pastora.l properties W!LS reduced so low that they were sold for 2s. in the £, but directly rain came the value of those propertie< increased bv ieaps and bounds; and that will he the case in Queens­land. We are rLsked to consider the position of the pastoralist~. There is no onP who it- rnore in fi:i., ~mr of givin:4 reasonablP consideration to the pastora!Ists than I am. I hold that every assist­ance should be rendered them that will help to bring ahout prosperity in the country, but at , the same time I am of opinion that small farmers and others require equal consideration. \Vith regard to federation being a c~nse of the present deficit, I was one of those who foug-ht against federation, because I saw clearly what it meant for the people of (,iueenoland. But the rwople h:tving accepted federation, I think we should loyally support the nwmbers who have been returned to the Ferleral P'1rlia­ruent. I nm proud of the men we have sent from Queensland. [Opposition members: Heotr, hear !J They have stood up in their places and to the best of their lights have tried to do away with indirect taxation and bring about direct t•xation. \Ve hav~ heard a great deal about the abolition of the duties on tea anrl kerosene; but why should the small settler living in the bush 'pay a tax on kerosene when people in cities anrl towns can get electric light and gas at a reasonable figure? One of the fairest systems of direct taxation is the income tax, as it will fall upun those people who can best afford to paythetax. At the sametirnei think there should be a minimum on which such tax should he levied, and that minimum should not be less than £100. Personally I should like to see the minimum fixed at £200, and the tax made progressive on all salaries above that amount. The poll tax pro-

pn~ed b~- the Go\·ernn1ent is a very unfair one. Th>'!w >ue hundretJs of people in the State who for yea! past ha,ve not earned lll«Jr ~ than 12~., lZ")s., or £1 I_,f'r week on an average, : nd it would be unjn:-.t to irrq.;;,se an income tax , .Jl them. I aiD sure the Governrnent v·;uuld lJ• ·t have the C:C)urage td bring forward such a pru1 osition at a g"t>neral electinn. \Vith respect to the cutting down of Ha.r1Sa)'(l, I do nnt agree with it at all. l would rutl1er increase it~ lu-efnlness, and I would suggt-'st that that i::night be done by taking the adverti:StllH:nt,c which a,rP given tu news­paper~ with no circulation :uul in1'{ert.i11g them in Hru18ard. Auui her nwtter l sbrmld like to refer to i-..: the incn,1w jn the railwav rnteR. One or t\VO instancetl have bP.en n1entioi1ed in which the rate~ hn.ve bum increased frortt 30 to 00 per cent. There is 1~ rnileP. of railway running through n1y di,.trict, the fares on which have been raised bv 100 per cent., wber~"'" for the same distance frmn ::\lilton to Centml the fare.-; have been rednced. Thi> reminds me of n stat8ment of the hon. member for Brisbane South, who sair! the ideal n1an vvas the one vdw got the tnost money for his con~tituents, \\hether it wa,s di~tributed wisely or not. [can only >ay that nothing is distributed in 111y cr,nstit:lUll,Y, and that the people were warntrl thnt '"uch would be the case if they retnr11ed a L>tbour member. It seems now that t.hey h'we Jone so that they are to be penalised by having their railway rates increased by 100 per cent. I think one large sourrA ()f ret enue whic:h the (~overnrnent have overhv>kf'd is that to be deri\ ed fron1 giving the ribht to l~line on }Jriva.tu property. rrbo.t would be the rnea.ns of giving employment to hundreds of men who otherwise will have [!feat clitfieulty in living. Inste::td of encourttging n1en to take an interest 1n mining, every ob,tacie is put in their way, !Lnd in proof of that I might menti<m the Mount Chalmers Compmy in my district. The mine was floated in London in September, 1899, with a capital of .£300,000, and .£20,000 was provided with -which to carry on certain works. \Vork \n.; carri<'d on until November, 1900, up to which time tbe manager's sabry had frequently to be used to pay W.lg't~ and eontractors' accounts. This went on until J<'ebruary, 1901, when remit­tance, ceased.

:Mr. ::\IAC.U{T)IEY ('too1conr1) : I rise to a point of order. Is the bun. n1ernlwr in f1rdbr in referring to the rLffairsof a private company having no bearing on the question before the House?

The SPEAKER: I gather that the hon. rnen1her is discussing the affairs of a private company. In the absence of knowledge as to the course his remarks will trLke, l am not in a position to say whether he is in order or uot. I will be able to form a better opinion as he continues.

::\Ir. TUR:c\'Err: A large number of sum­monses were issued by people to recover money due, but no alternpt was made by the comvany to pay its debts. At the same time action was being taken Ly certain persons to wind up the company, reg,,rdk~s of tbe fa~t that wages had not been paid, and they have not been paid yet. [}fr. :1\IACARTNEY: I have the receipt for them in my pocket, if that is any information to you.] \V ell, 1 !Hwe a letter from a tirn1 of solicitors in Rockbampton slating that they ha,·e not been paid, but that they expect daily to have some communication regardinl-( the matter.

The SPEAKER : I think the hon. member is departing from the question. I trust he will address himself to the amendment before the House.

Mr. TURKER : I will take another opportu­nity of dealing with the matter, when I will be

174 Want qf Confidenl'e Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] Want qf Cor~;fidence Motion.

in order. As to the general financial proposals of the Government, I certainly am not in favour of them. There are a number of ether thingo that I could 'peak of, but as others wish to speak I shttll reserve what I intended to say for a fntnre occasion.

Mr. WOODS (TVoothakata): As a new mem­ber I hope I shall recei vu the same hearmg and indulgence as other new members have recei,·ed. Before dealing with the financial proposals of the Government, I wish to deal with two state­ments which have been made on the other side of the House. The first is that a certain <;entle­man applied for white labour to eul sugar-cane on the Johnstone River, and it was not avail­able. I c11n ::tosure you I can fiwl 300 men in the hon. member's own town who can succtss­fully cut cane on the ,Johnstone. Then it has been stated that the Government wcere returned by 11n overwhelming majority of the electors on their financial proro'"l<>h;, ::tnd that the Labour party polled 10,000 less than they did the previons election. But here are the figures : In l89G we polled 20,827 ; in 18~19, 36,408; anrl in 1902, 44,1fl9. It has also been said th::tt the policy of the Government has been endorsed by the people. IV e know that one plank in the Government's policy w::ts private syndicate railways, and I will give the result of a syndicate milway in one district. In 1896, at W oothakata, the successful candidate pnlled 487 votes ; in lf<99, 467 votes ; and in 1902, five years after the Bill pas sod, there were polled 1,045 votes by the Labour man, who was retnrnea by an ~)verwhehning rnajority. I wish to con­tradict the statement made bv the Minister for Railways that there are increase·' in the rail way rates on log cedar on the Cairns line. There has been no increase on log timber rates on this line, and I chailenge the hon. member to correct. me. But there is one item in connection with the carriage of copper matte which will be interesting to members on both sides. vVe must r8member tlwt tbe mining industry is the backbone of the colony, anrl we mu"t look to this industry to heip us out of our present difficulties. There are three smelters in my district-one at Chilhgoe, one at Einasleigh, and one at l\Iount Garnet; ",nd the rntes for the 0arriage of copper mat.te have been increased, not 50 per cent., hue :300 per cent. In New South vVales the rate for 510 miles is .£2 3s. 4d. ; ::tnd in Queen,bnd, f•·qrn Cairns to Mareeha, a distance of 47 miles, the increased rate is 18s. per ton. For the distance I mentioned in New South \Vales it would be about .£10 per ton, I w::ts very much snr­prisei! to hear hon. members on the other side condemn these increased rates, anrl then turn round and bay that they were going to vote again't their own conviction,. If they are not prepared to put the Lab"m· party in p• >wer, why cannot they at all events vote according to their own convictions. I am sure that if the pre.sent Government went to the c0untry on their financial proposals, not one of them would get l1ack to power. r'\5 has been pointed ont, onA firm at Cairns is rnaking provision to carry goods to Mount Garnet and the Hodgkinson on packhorses £3 a ton cheaper than they can be carried on the railways. I stand here and say distinctly that there has been a decrease in the railway revenue since the 1st July. There are scores of miners only waiting for rain in order to wash their dirt, who, owing to the increased railway rates, are now humping their swags to pb ces where they can gE't food, for they cannot afford to get their food by train. In the mining districts I have referred to, the people had already to pay 50 per cent.-and in some cases 150 per cent.--on their goods, and now the Government have put on another 50 per

cent. on miners' goods, and 300 per cent. on COjJper matte. This will only mean the shutting down of these smelters, and it will mean the crippling of the mming industry, which we look to to help Queensland out of the mire. The tank engine" have been referred to by several hon. members, but the main point has

been mis·,ed. Those tank engines [11·30 p.m.] cost the colony something like

£80,000 as a first cost.. \Vhen the first engine was built it did not get three times its length before it had to be dismltntled and towed to Brisbane. The blunder was the fault of Mr. Nesbit in the first place and of the Cabinet in the second. The duty of the Cabinet was to have allowed the contractors a certain amount of compensation, cancelled the contract, and had engines built with the balance of the money more suita'1le for the roads over which they had to run. Not one of those tank engines has done a successful day's work without being laid up, and they can be seen now with their fireboxes bulged in, although they have only been working twelve months. They use more oil on a rlay's running than would pay a tnan's wages. The average cousun1ption between Roma street and Ipswich should be 2 pints of oiL The tank engines use 32 pints of oiL The Secretary for R::tilways stated that they U>ed less coal than the ordinary engines. I ::tssert that when they are standing in the shed and not running they use 15 cwt. of coal a night. The rea>on the fires are kept in is to keep water in the boiler~ so that they should not blow up. They have to keep sufficient steam in the boilers to enable them to work the injectors during the night; the water is continually leaking out. \Ve have been told they are good engines. and so they are. I have here an order prohibiting them going into any siding between Brisbane and Ipswich, and Brisbane ancl Sandgate. In the Ipswich yards there are only two sidings they can get into. The gentleman who designed those engines was given a trip round the world at the colony"s expense, and receivld .£1,000 a year. The position was previously held by a man receiving o£800, and he was more capable of filling it than the imported Chief Mechanic::tl Engineer. That gentlem::tn, :vir. Horniblow, designed the engine that is doing the best service in the colony, and the first thing- Mr. N esbit did was to condemn it >tnd introduce his tank engines. \Vhen it was discovered what a blunder had been made, Mr. Nesbit was afraid of the result, and resigned, and then the Govern· ment gave him a retaining-fee of £250 " year

' as Chief Consulting ;\Ieehanical Engineer. By the Railw::ty Act of 1888, the Commi:;sioner is given power to appoint rnen outside the serdce, but before doing- so he must give a statement in \Vriting that there iH no man in the service fit for that particular position. I say there

1 are men in the rail way service of Queensland capable of filling any lJosition in it, and that the gentleman who occupiPd the position of Loco­motive Engineer should have had the £1,000 a year as Chief Mechanical Engineer. There is another beautiful object lying in the river-one of the Lindon Bates dredges, which cost some­thing like .£180,000. There is one way in which tl:e "Samson" might be utilised. She might be used for picnic excursions by hon. members on the other side, and when they were diecu.,sing what was extravagant expenditure they would only h::tve to lonk down and see a lidng example of it underneath their feet. Another matter in connection with railwav exrJenditnr" is the appointment at Roma street, at a salary of £220 a year, of a man who, I am prepared to say, would not know coal from ballast. Another appointment that has been made is that of locomotive foreman 8,t Mackay at u salary of

Want o/ Confidence Motion. [29 JULY,] Want of Confidence Motion. 175

£200 a year. [At 11·35 the SPEAKER left the chair, which was taken by the Chairman of Committees as Deputy Speaker.] There are three engines on this line, and they only run 33 mile,, and until a few months ago a fitter in charge was quite f,ufficient; but people generally find job; for their friends, and to-day a foreman is required. Another appointment that I \vish to deal with is that of goods agent at Roma street. This gentleman was formerly station-master at Emerald at 10240 a year. He left the serviee, and is now brought back at a salary of £27f> a year, and I am prepared to ""Y that there are at least five men in the Romr. street goods-shed as well able to fill the position. I shall nuw deal with the privile,;e rates. vVe have been told that the privilege rates were taken away and their wages were restored. \Ve were also told that the wages were reduced and they got these privi­lege rate~ instPad. Now, that is entirely wrung. The pdvileges were granted to the railway men in 1889 by the newly appointed Com1uis5ioners. The hon. member for Toowoomba was misled when he said that they g•>t these privileges instead of their yearly excursion. It was a eystem that i\'fr. JYiathieson introduced from England, where it has been in existence for thirty-five years. Mr. Mathieson introduced it for the purpose of gaining revenue, and the Secret:uy for Rail ways has abolished it for pre­cisely the samR reason. The hon. member for Toowoomba says that the amount lost is between £7,000 and £10,000 a year, but I am prepared to put it at £7,000. The Government are studying economy and going in for retrenchment, and yet they deliberately throw away £7,000 that does not cost one farthing to earn, and would be sufficient to pay seven M inistef8' salaries. The carriages are running all the same whether the railway men ride in them or not. It is not a concession at all. The rnajnrity of the boiler­makers and titters are members of the Amalga­mated Engineers' Society, and they have a con­cession from their society so as to work in the railway service at h. a day less, and that conces­sion was granted on the ground that Lhe privilege ticket system would make up the difference. The taking away of this concession is an injustice not only to the men tbemselYes but to the country and to the Railway Department, became the best men will leave the service. [The SECRETARY FOR RMLWAYS: \Ve will take care they won't.] There are six wen who cabled to Capetown only yesterday for appointments, and thev are six of the best men in the service. [The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS : \Ve have 100 willing totalwtheirplaces.] Theh(>n.gentleman will have to educate them up, and he certainly has not 100 men to replace• some of these men. He is increasing the salaries of some n£ the officers in his department at a time when he is cutting off poor unfortunate men. One particular man, who holds the honour of being the ol:lest locomo­tive driver in the world, has been retrenched, and if he is th,mght to be too old to drive an engine he is not too old to hold another position in the ,ervice. Instead of appointing a coal inspector from outside the service, this man might have been given the position. vVith regard to the general retrenchment in 1803, it is mther unfortunate that every time the colony gets down "on its uppers" they fall back upon the unfortunate civil servant" and the railway men to make up the deficit. In 1883 the railway men loyally submitted to the reduction in the intPrests of the colony, with the distinct understanding that when the colony turned the corner towards prosperity they would get back th~ money that was knocked off. At every electwn from 18!)3 to 1899, almost every candidate who stood pledged himself to vote for a restoration of the railway men's wages. Every

time it was brought forward in this House-and I am glad to say it was always brought forward by the Labour party-the gentleman at the bead of the Government said the colony was not in a sufficiently prosperous condition to justify the t-i-overnn1ent in increasing- expenditure, but, at the same time, it was sufficiently prosperous to justify them in slip]•ing £500 a year on to the Com­nTissioner's salary. There are men in the ser­vice who have never got their ·money back yet. Both in 189G and 18!!9 the Premier pledged him­self in my hearing t-o assist in getting the rail­way men's wagfs back. A_ petition was signed by some 5,000 men, and when the matte.r was brou.:ht forward by the hon. member for Leich­hardt one of seventy members pledged to support the resolution only seventeen voterl for it, and fifteen of them were Labour members. There is Oll<' station-master now in the service who has never got one l;d. of hi~ wage' restored to him ; and I know civil servants who were retrenched and have never f(ot their money back yet. And the men who are again called upon to fill the coffers of the Treasury are the men in the lowest grades. \Vhy should they have to pay while the Chief Mechanical Engineer is allowed to go scat free? The burden of taxation should be placed on the shoulders of those best able to bear it. I maintain that the minimum should be £150, because there is no man, with a family to support as they ought to be brought up, can do it under £3 a week. I am aware that many a man has to work for les~, but if the colony were managed in a proper manner, and we had a statute whereby the rates of wages were fixed bv the State, then they would not have to do it. That is one of the things the Labour party would bring about if they were in power; and I feel sati>,fied that if there were a changp of GovPrmnent, even if a Labour Government got into power, they could not possibly do worse tban the present party in power. I shall probably have a good deal to oay in connection with the railways when the Rail way Estimates come on, but I do not wish to bring tho"e matters on to-night. It has been said that the Labour [Jarty were once 011 the TreMury benches, but were not able to stav t!-Jere. It has :Joo been said that the Treasuty was all right when the Govern­ment ldt it t.o make way for the Labour Government. The only conclw;ion I can come to is that the leader of the Labour Govern­ment must have taken a leaf out of the book of the Government and emptied the Treasury. It is my intention to vote for the amendment, and in doing so I shall not be voting against my cornictions. \Vhat I say T mean, and as I speak I vote; and when I cowe back ::tgain after meeting my constituenl s I shall in all pr, bal,ility be changing places with the Minister for Railways.

Mr. PETRIE (Toomuul) : I was in hopes that this debate would have finished last week, but as it has been continued till now I do not wish to give a silent vole, though it has been said even in my own electorate, that I am a silent memb8r. I support the Government because I believe we cannot get a better Governm~nt than

they are. At the last general elec­[12 p.m.] tion the Premier put forward a

manifesto, in which he told the elec­tors that the country was in such a state finan­ciallythat the Government would have to do some­thing to bring our expenditure wit.hin our incorne. Members on this side all went on those lines. We know that in good times all Governments have been in dined to spend more money than they should do, and the present Government are no more to blame in this respect than past Governments. The Premier plainly told the people at the general election that measmes would have to be adopted to reduce our expenditure within our

176 Want qf Conjidenr·e lviotio11. [ASSEMBLY.] W(tnt if Cun;jidenr·e Jlfot;un.

income, and that, if necessary, additional taxa­tion would be imposed, and he asked the electors to support and help him in this policy. The Premier's :.wtiun was endorsed by the country, as he was returned by a very large majority, and his a.ction was a!"' endorsed at the last two by­elections. 'Therefore I am perfectly .i 11st.itied in aRking hon. men1bers on both side~ of the House to help the hon. gentleman to brin;; the cnuntry ont of its preHent trouble. The acting leader of the Opposition is inopportune in moving this ctmendment, and bfJ 1nust have knov.rn tha,t under the circmustanc~s in which the couutry is pbced he had not the slighte~t cha,ncR of can·yin~ it. The hem. rrH"ffi­ber for Lockyer had no doubt smne objf. et in view when he moved his amendment on r.he Addres' in Reply, but the acting leader of the Opposition 1nust nnt thiuk that bt>CalJ.se nme members on this side approved of that object they are going to a~si~t hirn to oust the Govern~ ment. \V e are in that position now: that it behove< every member of the House, no matter on which side he sits, to do his best to bring the colony out of its present trouble. The Opp<»i­tion ln::ty have so1ne reason for saying that the Governrnent art:J nnt adopting the prorJer n1easures to accomplish that object, but I ask whether the best G-overnrneut that t~ver exi.o:.ted co1lld do any~ thing that would satisfy everybody '! Past Governnwnts havP heen extravagant, and no doniJt the present Government are not all that they "ught to be, but they are far better than any l{overmnent we could get frnrn the other side of tile House. [Mr. lLumACRE: Yon have not tried them.] vVe have tried thetu. \Ye tried them for a few hours at one time, and I am sorry to say they were not a success. So far as the Prernier ,tnd his colleagues are concerned, I believe they are honest in their int~ntions, th~ugh I do not agree with all that they are doing. I do not agree with what the Secretary tor Rail­w..tys, or the Connni.,~ioner, i..; doing with regLtrd to the rail ways, but I agree with the Secretary for Railways that the fi!Jancial proposal; of the Government have nothing to do with the increase in the railway rates. The hon. g-entle1nan is a rnan of backbone and con vietion, and he has made a very able defence of his admiuistl'ation of the r.tilwavs. There is no donbt that p1st Commiosioners >tnd Ministers have n1,~de a rni~take in regard to fares and freights, and there is, perhaps, more ju,tifi­cation for raising freights now that farmers are obtainin,; such good prices for their produce. I fear, however, that the :\Iinis<ter's tstima.te of his receipts under the new mil way tariff will not be realised. In this connecti' m l may say that I think it would be a very wise step if the Minister encouraged people living in the suburbs, by rneans of very low fare.s, to patronise those trains which during some port ion of the day run almoot empty. Like other members, I deplore the fact that one of the results of ferl.eration should be thrtt we have lest w much of our revenue, but I would like to say that I was one of those who voted against it-not because I was opposed to federation, but because I did not believe in the terms offered to 11s. I was a strong ad \'OC>J.te for an extem;ion of the usefulness of the :Federal Council.

The DEPUTY SPEAKJ<JR: The hon. mem­ber, I hope, will keep the amendment clearly before him.

Mr. PETRU~ : Dealing with retrenchment, I am with the Government, and as far as members' salaries are concerned, I believe if the civil service is to suffer we ourselves should "et a good example-not that a member is not worth £300 a year. I believe if he does his duty he is worth that and something· more. I am very glad that His Excellency has seen his way to insist upon a

reduction of his salary, and I hope this may lead to other scheduled otlicers following his lead. Indeed, with such an example before them, I do not see how the others can get out of it. Pro­bably the proposed reductions on the civil servants are not quite equitable, aud I hope we will have an opportunity of adjusting the details of the Bill so that no injustice may be done. I ask hon. members on both sides to put all party questions on one .side and to cu!ld' forward and try and a"'ist the Government to "tee: the ship uf State through the shoals and through every barrier into the harbour of prosperity. [Honour­able members: Hear, hear']

Mr. DU:\'SFORD (Chnrter.< Town·s): Seeing that it i~ now after midnight, nod nwtnbers are tired and the reporters are tired, 1 shall be as brief as I po,sibly can. In all thi, long discus­sion it is a renmrkable fact that thPre has not been one eingie champion of the propmals of the Government on the other side. 'l'hf'y have atternpte{l to excuse tbe Government and to explain their proposals, and in dnmg so they have so mutilated them that the Premier might very \vell say, "Save rne frmn n1y . ..:.upporters~:: .Andlwmightgo fnrtherarrd "sk ,.ome of them to go to the otber side. If they believe in p>trty politics. let them accept the Government's proposals, bnt if they do not, then ld them be true to their constituents and their own consciences, because '' l\"o rnun can serve two JnasterB.:· How cumes it that some hon. members are willing- to throw overboard their constituentr<, 'acrifice their convictillns, and stick tu the UovPrnrHent policy? I think that the Goverumer:t are justified in some of therr proposals, but n,any of ttJem I object tu. I am pleased with the proposal to impose a direct tax i11 the Hhape of an incorne tax, and I arn pleased that led er ,tion has compelled them tn take this step. If this is one of the results of federation, ttJen it has done some little good for the colonv. \Vith rega.rd to a divi­delld tax, the hon. member for Oxley recornmend~d that it should be increased. Such a system of taxation falls very unjustly

upon the community, and when WE

[12'30 a .m.] consider that the Go,·ermnent do not intend to repeal that Act, it means

douLle~hanking- those 'vho are recf'iving incomes from th~l rnining industry. ~-\.11 incomes, fro1n whatever source derived) are to be taxt'd. _r\_t pre,<ent thc; dividend tax is not collected from individuals, but from corporations, and in this way those who are drawing dividends will h>tve to pay twice over. But what I object to is that many are called upon to pay the dividend tax who are not in receipt of any dividfnds. It may sour,d parttdoxical, but nevertheless it is true, that 1nen on Charters 'l'owerR and el~ew here, working miners who have put a portion of their earnings into mining, are not in receipt of any dividends on account of their calls exceeding theirdividends. Bnt they are taxed on the portion they receive caJ!d dividends, and they ret no rebate on their calls. That is unjust, and if we propose to levy the income tax on the s~tme unbnsiness-like lines there will quickly be nn outcry throughout the colony. I have a little quotation here from the NoTth, rn ilfine1', which shows that theTrea>urer of Queer.,Jand for the time being is the largest shareholder in the gn:dmines on Charters Towers. He holds a twentieth interest in every mine nn tbe field, and the paper remarks that he 'lumbers when call" have to be paid, but wakes to vc,ra­cious acrivity the momt--n~ the magic \vor-d "divi­dEmd" is heard. If the Treasurer could only ,;ell his interests in those mines it would tiel'" the colony over its present financial difficultie>'. I hope the Premier, when he brings in his In­come Tax Bill, will bear in mind the present unjust incidence in connection with the divi­dend duty. If the money from that source

}j?(uzt qf Cor.;fidence 2viotion. [29 JuLY.] Want of' Confidenl'e "Wotion. 177

merely passes through a man's ham1s you cannot say he is in receipt of an income from that 'ource, and you should not tax him upon nothing. I hope the Premier, who is also the Secretary for 111ines, will see his way to assist the mining industry more than he has recently done. \Vhen we consider that it is the onlv industry that is holding its own, we could, with profit to the State, assist in opening up and developing new fields. Although, speaking generally, the industry pays splendidly, still, from an individual standpoint, very frequently men lose la,rge Anms in it ; so that it is one of those pe~nliar industries in which the t:ltate could wisely take the risk much better than one individual or a number of individuals. In fact, there is very little risk, opeaking from a broad standpoint. If the State assisted in erectins; machinery, though failure might result in one place, in l1alf-a-dozen places the large portion would turn out succes,fully; and if only one or two really gnod mineral fields were opened np by this means it woulrl morp than recoup the State for its outlay. The locking up of mining properties should be carefully considered. If you continue to give continuous exemption, troubles will arise, and the avenues for employ­ment will not he so gre%t as they otherwise would be. ,Just one word about the railways. I should like to compliment the Secretary for Rail ways on having appointed a travelling rail­W"'Y ticket collector. I heJieve this has brought into the department a comirlerahle amount of revenne. I was suq,riser! when I heard of the number of peop],., trymg to "have" the Railwav Department, travelling " on the nod." [The t:lPK'di:ICR resumed the cho,.ir.] It was won­dt>rful the nnn1ber of civil servantR who were tripped up. I believe one 111inister of thf~ go~pel was en,ught travellinp- "on the nod"; one }liniRter of the Crnwn wa., also trip,oed up taking his be·_.t girl to Sandg·atf', a nU one "bookie" was also canght.. 'rhis colle(~tor may therefore be con­:-:;iderpd to have earned his mnney, ?~nd this is one of the small bnsiness transactions that the department sometimes undertake. :Many in· f't<tnces have been ~iven where onr nLihvav rateR do not. comp:1re favotwtbly with those "of the other colonies. The Minister endetlVotued to prove, by a. long list o~ con1parif'ons, thnt ou1· ratf·•, on the ct>nt"r ~.ry, wer~-" lower than thoBe in l'i ,,w South \Valr.s. \V ell, I hav>: here the latest in formation on the suhject. The Sydney Daily 'l'eleymph of 26th Jnly says that at the commercial travellel's' dinner the ChiP! Corn tnissioner for Rail ways, nir. Olivc:r, stated that the department had done a great dP:tl to ao;;;si;..,t tbe nnfPrtnnat.e people who were hattling- agaim~t the drought bv reducing n;te;;; ou stock and foddP-r to ::1, rnerely nmninal sum. To .me station al<c.ne they ce~rried 1,3-15 truck< o£ fodder :1n ><ccnmulated dist cnce of i507,24K miles for a chttrge of :}d. per trnek per milL', which reduced the ton mile>tge to about one-fifth of ±rl. per ton per mile, and that waR as clo:)e to free C"1rriage as one coul~l conveniently get. \Vhen we have facts such as these before us-that. they are carrying 1 ton 20 miles for ld.-surely we cannot place much reliance un the st·atements of the Secretary for Rail­ways. \Ve ;.tre doing rr'ally nothing in Queens· land to assist the peopl~ in our \Vrstern districts w bo are suffering from the effects of the drought, while, on the other hand, we are ;,iJing further trouble upon them. \Ve are doing what will cause numbers of them to centrali~e in the towns instead of inducing them to remain in the West. I have a number of other fi :ores which I might quote but for the latPnes.) of the honr. I have some n8w,.paper clippings which s•,te that the firm of the late memlpr for \Voothakata, ::\Ir. Newel!, is now

1902-s

urrying successfully, in competition with the Railway Department, by means of packhorses. That firm is -.aving from £1 to £3 per ton in carriage. Be that as it may, it is pretty certain that the people nn that line and on the Croydon line, where freights have been increased GO per cent., if they are not doing it now, will soon be able to compete successfully with the department per medium of the old bullock-dray >tnd the pack­horse. Surely we do not want to see cmnpetition of that sort ! If the State, with all the latest appliances, cannot offer better inrlucements to people to use the rail ways, it would perhaps be just a.s well to shut the railways up. I need hnrdly say that I shall be only too pleased to vote for the amendment. I do not expect that there is any possibilit.y of carrying it, because hon. members on both sides h:1,ve already made np their n1indR hovv they are going to vote. One of the unfortun,te features connected with pi!rty government is that speechc-, however able they rr1ay be, have absolutely no effect in deciding how members "ill vote, whntever effect they may have outside the House. Hon. memben vote on strictly pnrty lines, especially on such a questi,m as this, and I suppose that while we have party governn1ent \Ve cannot expect anything else, although it has led me to ,wk m:v.self whether there is not some better systeni of government. It would be much better if we met here to consider things on their merits, and then took the verdict of the whole. However, that is not going to be done on the present ccc,><;ion. \Ve have no hope of carrying the amendment, but hon. member" on thi, side will have done their dutv. If we lose, it will not be the first time we ha\'e lost, and I suppo"e it wilt not be the last. Still, we will keep on trying, anrl the day rnay come when hon. tnern­bers on thi.s ,,ide will be on the other Fide of the Hon~f:""

Mr. 3\IARTI~ (Burru">): \Vhen the hon. meniber for Hu-ekhawpton mo,·ed his l1ll1End· nwnt he could har,ily have tlwught that be voicecl the una,nhnous opinion on both side8 of the House that the financial prop<>sals of the Govern1nent are unclatisfactor';. \Vithout ex­ception, every member outside the JHinistry who hns sp·lken ha' strongly condemned the financial prupo;als of the Government, and the members of the :C.,finistry themselves have damned their propnsals witl1 faint praise. It is

i quite evident that the Govemment, in putting · these propos;<ls before tbe country at the i pre.sent time, have failcr1 to realise the Sf'rious

;;;'<·at;~ into which the count :i'y ha~ f: l]en. EiLher that or they have failed to ris., to the oCC'<:t~ion. One hun. rnernber ,,aid tha.t the losses in the \\7 eRt amount to ~0 per cent. Tbl'l :.tocl\.~ owners in my district h"' e lost 50 per cent. on cultivated areas, and 90 per cent. in the lm,h and on selections. The losses have been caused by drought, tick, red \Vater, and otbet· cause f.;. The dairymen have lost ne«rly nll their stock, and the few head of cattle they are keeping alive are being hept at onormous expense. In 1H9H the agriculturists bad only hil!f a crop; in 1900 they had nnly half a crop ; and this year the returns are nil. The timber-getters' losses in my district also amount to HO per cent. Selectors have had to abandon their "elections from want of water and loss of crops, and the coalminers are getting from ten to twei ve shifts a month. That is the condition of things in my elec~orate. The pro­ducers are nolv depending on the storekt t:Jpers · and they in turn are depend inK on the merchants' and it is only ar1uesrionoftime when the merchant~ will close down. Therefore it is a bad time for any Government to think of raising additional revenue to the extent of £257,000. During the past ten years the revenue of l.iueen,]and has been such that a certain amount ought to have

178 Want oj Confidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] Want qf Conjidenrce 111otion.

been put by for a rainy day, but that has not been done. Another thing, we have sufficient rainfall in five years to provide water for ten years, but there is no provision for water conser­vation, as there should be in a country like this. As to the railway rates, my opinion is that the Minist13r for Rttilways has done the right thing at the wrong time. \Ve have not only to consider our railway rates bnt also our \Vater carriage, New South \Vales is provided with water carriage by means of ri\ ers equal to the Brisbane River every 30 or 40 miJeq along the coast, and the New South \Vales farmer can dump his produce down in Queensbnd ports cheaper than the Queensland farmers' produce can be put on the market. Queensland has also had to contend against the preferenti:.l ratPs ruling in New Sonth \Y ales, near the (.lueens­land border. I can understand the Minister raising the r,\il way rates on the Darling Downs where they hs,ve produce which is bringing good vrices; bnt the same argun1ent does not apply to my district, where the price of timber has gone chwn and the price of cane has not been raised. :From inquiries I have made I find that the timber-g·etters were paying 2s. Gd. under the old tariff up to lfi miles, and they ar'c now paying 2s. 9d.; 30 miles, 4s. 7d. under the old, and iis. Id. under the new ; ,10 miles, 5s. Gd. under the old, and f,,_ under the new ; r,o miles, 6s. 3d. under the old, 8nd fis. lld. nnder the new; 60 miles, 'is. ld. under the old, and 7,. 9d. nnder the new ; 100 miles, 10s. 5d. under the old, and lls. 6d. under the new tariff. So the Minister for Railways was in error when he said we were not paying more than formerly for the carriage of our timber. I will give him credit, however, for being prepared to remedy anomalies if he can consistently do so. On 4-ton lots of produce up to 10 miles the old tariff was 5s. a ton; now it is 10s. a ton. Coming to sugar-cane, under the old tariff we were paying at the rate of Is. Sd. up to 15 miles ; and under the new tariff it is ls. 6d., which is a reduction. The rate for lG miles was Is. Sd. per ton under

the old tariff ; under the new tariff [I a. m.] it i> ls. lld.; and there is an in-

crease of 3d. per ton for every mile over 15 miles. Our land revenue I shall not touch upon at this late honr. I admit that our land legislation is far and away ahead of the land laws of New South \Vales; it is the way that it b administered that is responsible for driving selectors off the iand, rather than the drought. A selector who has gone into the bush to make a home for himself may he away at a race weetint(, or for ~orne other purpose; a ranger comes along and finds him absent from his holding, with the result that the man has to travel 30 or 40 miles to a Land Court, and take neighbours wtth him, in order to prove th"t he has fulfilled the conditions. The ofbciousness of our rangers has driven tho11sands of men from their holding·s. Again, if a selector is a few days late in paying his rent, and he goec, 30 or 40 miles to pay it, the officials refuse to receive the money. These things tend to drive men off the l"nd. The best way to induce people to settle on the land is to encourage those who are there already, and not to drive them aw"y from their holdings in the way I have mentioned. The unemployed question is a serious one at the present time. \V e are told that there are very few unemployed, but I would point out that the unemployed of to-day are the men who were employers a few years ago. I was surprised to hear one hon. member say that he would increase the vote of £15,000 for immigra­tion, while in the same breath he deplored the fact that so many of our young men were going to South Africa. Would it not be better to spend that money in encouraging those young

men to stay here to develop our resources than to expend it in bringing unfortunate people from elsewhere? These young men are natives of the State, and Australia will never be a n"tion worthy of the name until our young men are imbued with the spirit of patri ntism which makes them proud to call Australi>< their home. As a native of Austmlia I am proud of the young men who fought in South Africa, and should like to see every encouragement given them to stay here. With regard to retrenchment, there is a great discrep­ancy in the salaries paid to civil servants. Hun­dreds of men are receiving salaries which are not sufficient to keep body and soul together, while others are drawing salaries out of all proportion to the service they render the State. I maintain that there is not a man in the civil service in Australia at the present time who is worth £1,000 a year. I exempt profc"sional men, such as doctor~ and barristers who have served many years apprenticeship and passed examinations in order to qualify them for their positions. There should be a nni6cation of salaries, under which tbe high-salaried men should be cut down and the lower-salaried men increased. I agree with an income tax if there is an exemption, but I do not approve of taxing the small man, and the income tax as proposed by the Go;-ernment will crush the small man. I am no friend of the kanakas, but I wouH voint out that a kanaka who signs an engagement at £G I Os. a year will lose £1 under this proposed income hx. \Vhen a farmer gets a kanaka from the islands he has to pay £5 down for his return pasqage money, and if that kanaka goes to another employer, that employer has to pay the £5. Where does this money go? Every kanaka who dies in the colony is worth £5 to the Government. Numbers of these men are starving in our district. W'hy not put the Polynesian Act into force, or spend some of the £23,000 which belonge. to their dead relatives in giving those men a sqnare meal? There is a question of gr"'"t importance to the sugar-grower tn which I would wish to r<,fer. On the !Jth October, l!JOI, the new federal tariff and excise duties came into operation, and arrwngst other things an excise of £3 a ton on sugar manufactured within the CummonwHtlth was provided for. At that date the Colonial Sugar Company had 20,000 tons of sng,l!' in hand, and consequently they had topay£60,000, which came out of the pockets of the growers. 'I' hat amounts to 2s. 7d. a ton on Lhe ~ane used. The Com­monwealth Parliament is illegally impounding £60,000 of hard earned money. The Colo­nial Sugar Ournpany is a powerful concern, and is likely to institute legal proceedings. They will retain £10,000, and offer the far­mers £50,000 of their own money if success­ful. That required a good deal of consideration on the part of those interested. Now, I support tbe "mendment, not because I was returned as a Labour member, but through conscientious conviction. J\Iember' on the other side are free to vote a• they ish, but if they cast their votes as conscientiously as I do for the amendment they will be satis,fied with tlwir own actions and their constituents will be satisfied with them.

Mr. Mc:WASTER (Fortitude V all elf): I will not detain the House long, for the reason that, unlike membprs opposit<>, I have no set speech prepared. This amendment has been moved in such a mild, gentlemanly manner that I really think there is no fight in it. In fact, the Premier gave it its proper name when he called the debate a "sham fight." It, however, has afforded members opposite' an opportunity for making long speeches and getting them into Hansard. The Government have been severely criticised for their extravagance, but I think if Opposition members read their speeches carefully they will

Want qf Confidence J.l!lotion. [29 JuLY.] Wtmt of Confidence jll£otion. 179

find that they have contradicted themselves. One -or two members accused tlH> Government of extra­vagance because they have employed a large num­ber of men on th<' railways in duplic;1ting lines and straightening out cnrves. Surely they rr1u8t know that all that money has gone in employing labour. Then they accuse the Government for not having made provision for the unemployed. ·well, the -Government cannot do that unless they have the money to spend, and surely the r:wney spent on the railways has benefited the unemployed. There are fewer unemployed-so I am given to understand-in Qneensland th,1n in any other State. I regret to say that there are a large number, and I am very much afraid that there will be more. \Ye are told that the proposals of the Government are unsatisfactory. \:V ell, would it be supposed for a moment that anyone wuld be found who would adn it that a policy of taxation is: sati8factory? I believe the Govern­ment regret as much as anyone the necessity for such a policy, but they have a work to perform though it he a painfnl work. They find them­selves faced with a c!eficit of over £400,000, and how are they to wipe it out'! That is the question for the ~VJ.inistry to decide. Hon. members opposite say the Government is to blame for the whole of the deficit by their 3Xtra vagance. I don't so much blan1e the Labour p~t·ty sitting iu this House for that :1s the Labour party wno are running the B 1rton Government. They, to a very great extent, are the cause of the deficit. 'l'here are sixteen I..~abour n1en do,vn south ·who are running Aus­tralia for the present, and it is a very extra­ordinary thing that there are so few feder"tionists now. The Premier and others went into federathm, believing that it would be the best thing that QueenBland could do, bnt now we see that it has proved a cmse tn (,jueensland instead of " bleRsing. I blame Fortitude V alley for the coming of federation. Had the electors there not chnsen a Labour representative; had they not put me aside for a holiday, there would not have been federation, tor it was only carried by one vote in this Hou '-e, and if I had !wen here I would hn.ve voted again't it, and without QnePns­land 1\ e w South \V ales w .1uld not have gnne into federation. The preeent deficit is largely owing to federation, and this is only the b,· Jinning of the effect of federation here. 0 wing to the gre,,d of the south, expenditure under £,,deration will increa>·,, every year. ]'\ o doubt the drought has had a great effect on the Stcte, but the pastoralists and other industries will get over that if We only get a few week;' rain, but as for federation, with its incidents, I am afraid that, like the poor, they will "always be with us," and we will have larger deficits every year. v:V A have been twitted l1y the other side in connection with the income t""· but we don't know how it is goin~ to work. I ,)ever believed in an income tax, but the Government have had to look round for sources of re1 ·nue, and they thought this was the most l•!g·itirnate tax, and one that wonld bring in the most mo1.1ey ; but I question that very much. I did bear three or four day" before this debate crrme on that the Labour party in the Houee were very much opposed to this tax-how they got their infor­mation I don't know-and they were very much annoyed, because it would offect them c!irectly. But I think e1·ery man should bear his share of the g"neml burden. I remember that in1893, 10 per cent. was taken off salaries, and I think tlnt would be the better way to retrench than what is proposed now. But the Government has a duty to perform in trying to make both ends meet, and they are endeavouring to do that in the best possible way, according to their own lights. If I were to vote .against the Government and with the Labour

party, I need never go back to Fortitude Valley f"r re-election. My constituents would never look at me if I did that. I think there are other sources of revenue without going to an income tax. There is the totalisator. \Vhy not raise the tax on that? The tax is n•,w 2~ per cent., but why not make it lG or 20 per cent? And why not put a tax on theatres? If people will go to theatres and racecourses, let

them pay for it. Private billiard­[1•30 a. m.] tables might also very well bn taxed.

A publican has to pay £;30 for his license and .£10 for his billiard-table, while t.here are scores of billiard-tableo in clnbs and private places that pay nothing. On another item the Government mi~ht save from £2,000 to £3,000 a year; that is by doing away with the most useless department in the sen·ice-the early­closing department-which i.s neither more nor less than a department to harass and worry people who are end ea nmring to earn an honest lil'ing and pay their way. It is a department that could very well be abolished. I admit the neceqsity of keeping an inspector of steam boilers, but he could be put into some other department. If we conld only do a 'ay with that great sinking fund, the Federal Govern­ment, we should very soon get over our troubles. If y<~u ~~<ttlk about the stre"lts of Brisbane you hardly meet a man who will tell you he is in favour of federatwn. The hon. member for North Brisbane, :Yir. J<'orresr, spoke the other night about insisting on the ]'ederal Government taking over the lights ou our coast, which cost £40,000 a year. It is very unlikely they will do anything of the sort. They have taken away our chief revenue-producing department, and they have taken away our Defence Force for fear we might insist on getting the Custom-house back again, and it is hardly likely they will undertake the cost of lightio~ our coast.

Mr. NOR.I1A;\' (Jl«ryborough): Although a nPw member, I should not like to give a silent vote on the question before the Honse, which is that the financial proposRls of the Government are unsatisfactory. I have listened with pleasure to the debate, which has been to me a very instructive one. Even the denunciators of the Labour party only serve to call to mind the ,,aying of that eminent person,ge in the sixteenth century who thanked God that there was a faithhil devil to mmind him of his little weak­nesses. The Premier, spea.kin~ after the acting leader of the Labour party, s"irl the Government propo~al was to reduce by £100,000, whereas the proposal of the hon. rrwmberfor R"ckharn pton to reduce by£500,000would doawaywith "still larger number of ci vi! servants. I did not underotand the hon. member's sbtement in that light. \Vhat I understood the leader of the Opposition to say was that the cost of the administration ctmld be reduced by £500,000 if gone properly about without interfering with the efficiency of the civil service to anv considerable extent. I cauno~ go the full length of £500,000, but I know the Government hav·e ll'>t grappled with the situation as the country expected them to do. For instance, the cost of the State Governor could be C•msiderably reduced now that the Governor-General is the individual we communi­cate with directly on Australian matters. Again, the number of members of this House could be reduced considerably owing to so nnny of the departments of th<' State having been taken over by the Federal Government. The num­ber in the Council might also be reduced, although the Government have no inten­tion to do that, seeing that they have only recently appointed four new memhers. Then there is the subsidy that we are paying to the refreshment-room. That i• equal to a poll tax on 900 men at £1 a head. That also must go,

180 Want o/ Conjidenl'e J!lotion. [ASSEMBLY.] TVant rtf Conjide;n·e Jiotiun.

and it would not imply any further retrench­ment on the civil service. \Vith reference to the railway rates, it is an injustice imposing a burden upon the community that it is unable to bear. \Vhen the "ar began in South Africa the Government of Queensland rose to the occasion, and assisted the Imperial authorities to bridg·e .•. difficulty. \Var is an :.tbnormal state of things; the Government, perhaps, knew that it could not last forever, and they put turth all theirenergie·s to tide over wha.t they believer! to be a crisis in Imperial affairs, in which we were, perhaps, closHly in­terested. VV e are now passing thtungh a crisis, aud I would ask the Go\'ermmmt to assist the people of Queenshtnd to tide over this tem­porary difficulty a·; they assi,ted the Im­perial Government. If we are to make up for the expenclitur,•, let it be when times ttre a little bett• r. Rain i,; bound to cume in the near future, and tht' Governn1t:>nt should help the people instead of lwmpering then1 with addi­tional burdens. The hrm, nternl,er f(lr Carpen­taria referred to the policy of the Labour party as one of" drift''; but that may be correctly a]Jplied h the policy of the pref·cnt Government. The country exTJE'CtefJ the1n to bring in measures which would meet the altered condition of thing-; consequent ><pon federation, and what have they done? They have only S<> far introduced une Bill, and it is purely of a temporary rntture. 'rhe increased raihvay ratt:.·.; n1ay also be temporary. They werP expected to bring in some rneasures to effect a, per1nanent decrea"e in the cost of government. The mountain has tra­vailed and brought forth a mouse. Before touchin;: on that, I wi~h to refer to the policy of drift of this--or rather the continuous Go­venanent., becau::;e it is the s.::tn1e old (}overn­ment. Queensland wa, asked to send down tPn delegates to assist the delegates from the other colonies in drafting a Con,titution Bill. Our far·seeing politicians refused to do so. Sup­posing they had sent clown deleg,.tes, anrl they had b_tid th:.-~t the e1nployrnent of k;,1,nakrrs w -; a ~tate .··.ffttir :end did t,ot affect the other colonies at all, they might ha' e ;ndnced the othet to lea.\·e it a.s a. State concern. I do not t-<:l.V that it ·would havp tnade any difference, b~Lall:-'i8 I beli2Ye tht. people r,f the State would have wiped uut the kanak t labour just as the Comttt· •n­\Vt<Jth has done. But the Gove: nrnent l0t judgment go by default, and allowed the convention to draft a Constitution Bill, in which Queensland had uo say "t all. Then our far­sedng politician~ had tu fall in, hec;1nRe they .'<aw that, if the other St<1te~ fedtrated \Vithout them, this would be jn ')t 1lke ~t foreign country a..; far as intPrcolonial trade wa~ concerned. ' .. ehe fncon1e 'fax Bill, I nndert~trtnd, propq~,_s to impose a tax of £1 on all incomes under £150. The result will be that ir, will pay a man who is in recc·ipt of £151 or £1:1'2 to go to his boss and ask him to reCiUCP l1is salary to £1fi0, as he will thAn be better off, bee ~use he will only ha Ye to pay £1 instead of 151 or lil2 sixpences. In n1y electorate there are h'1ndreds of men getting only £1 10s. a week and rearing big familie•. ~ow, is it a fair thing to deduct £1 from such an innme as that besides calling upon those men to bear their share of the other extra bx,J.lion of the co'.mtry? I do not think it fair at all. I know one m:m with a family in my electorate receiving His. a week, and he will be called upon to pay £1 income tax. 'l'he Minhter for Railways, speaking of the privile.:es of the rail­way employees, said the man outside the fence getting 15s. a week and tucker had as mnch right to those privile;;es; so even the hon. J!,entlernan adn1its that there are men in the colony drawing only His. a week aurl tucker. I think the Government on .. ht to have brought forward a special tax on absentees. As for the

reduction of the hospital endowment, I main­tain that the care of the sick and unfortunate should revive our first consideration. In the Financial Statement the hope is expressed that private beneYolence will make up the deficieney,

' bnt it is sod to think that a community has to leave the care of its sick and unfortunate to pri\·ate benevolence I look npm1 it as a dis­grace to a ci\'ilised community. I have said all [intend to say to-night, and 1 thank hon. mem­ben: for t.hP. vatient hearing they have given me~

::\Ir. ltYLAl'\D (Ui!iltpie): If there is any thing 1nore objectionable than another in the proposals of the Government, I think it ;, the proposal to ta'' incomt s under £1GO. Eneryon~> who i"l in receipt of an inco1ne, no matter ho,,­small, i-; supposed to 1 ~y a tax of £1. I find that such a thing does not exist in any civilisetl country except China, \Vhere, if the tax is not [Jaid, the Chinaman's ht'acl is cut off. I hope the Preu1ier will not insist on going ba.ek to b,,.r­barism. The sam" kind nf tax was attempted in the fourteenth century by the J£nghsh Trea­:-mrer, or Chancellor, and it brought about a rebellion. The peasantry gatlwred mHside Lon­don, under the le11dership of \Vat Tyler, ,Jack Straw, and other celebrities of the day; and if hon. memburs will rPfer to "Campbell's LiYes of tbeChancellors."thcy will iind that the Cb:"ncellor was seized and behPaded. I have no de<ire that the Premier or the Tre~tsurer slwuld be beheaded for irnposing a capitn.tion tax in thiR Rt:1.te; but I believe that if tbe people of (~ueensland knew that under the proposal of the Go,,ernmEnt t,Very .incon1e, even though it might be only .-t:20 a year, would han1 to pay £1 a yeitr, there would be open rebellion to-morrow. It is all wry well .for the Premier in hi, mani­festo to tnake great prmni~eM to the countr.v. The taxation he promised wa.s to pre• s lightly on the shoulders of those least atle to bear the burdPn. Are those people Y:ho 1, cei ve snudl amounts the people who are able to bear this poll t.>x of £1 a year'? He also said that agriculture was to be encouraged. \Vill an increase in the rail w . .ty rate~ tend to encou' -t.ge agricultnrP? Will the; reduction in the endowrnent tu loeal anthoritiPS tE-nd to c.u:;sist the peopl' sc t.tlcd on the hnd? The hon. geutle­n1an said that hjs nbject would bP to attntct

desimi.JJ, persnns to tbe colony, [~ a.1n.] and rn.__,lu_, then1 pro"'p'2rons and con-

tented. \Vhat sort of persons is a policy like this likely to attract? It is calcu­lated to rn;,kr \Yat Tylers "nd .Jack Straws of nm· people, and IJOt tn ;ttra.ct dPsirab1e pen·mns to the State. lf the Premier h:1d gone t the c:ountry with thc»e financial prop<>salr, I nm '·ati,fied that h•.j \Vould not ll'J retur11ed whh a lll?.jority to this Hon·c., but h~ wisely kept them back until after the general eh-'':::tion. The hon. nJmnber for North Brisbane attacked an article in the TVol'ker in connection with the working ont of the land tax as proposed in the platform of the L·,bour p<trty, and rApre,ented that a tax of b. in the £ wunld be instituted under that prov .al. The hon. nif-:rr1h(~r did not quote it cotrectly. [Hon. E. E. FoHRE~T: I did.] The article pointed out that in the \VidgP Division the total land valuation was £104,000, that exempting the fir,t £300 in each ca>e there would be abuut £:>0,000 which would lw subject to t"'xation, ami that a t»x of ld. in the £ nn that amount would bring in £125 a year; while the \VidgeP Divi"ior,al Board rec,ived £702 as endow-ment for the previous year. The bon. member for Dalby tritod to n.·tke out that under the propo;al of the Labour par•y the tirst £300 would be taxr·d at the mte of ld. in the £, "nd to tile value of £400 l:J:rl. in thP £, and land valued at £500 UJ. in the £. That is not the vroposal of the Iahour party. The first £~0(}

vVi:t nt qj' Cuil}idcnre ~liotiun. [:W JULY.] 11:>1

\Vould be exempt from taxation, so that land -valued. at £~00would only be taxed on £200, which at ld. m the t would mean 11\s. Scl. per annum. If ~uch a tax \Vere irnpo~ed, an increa~e in the r~il \vay rates would bennnecessnry. Thr Trea~:n1rer distmctly 'tated that a reduction in the ellClo"''­ment meant a land tax. It woulrl be a land tax in its most objectionable form-a C::mrier Hall land tax, and not a Trades Hall land tax, which would be beneficial to the countrv. U ncier the ]rtncl tax proposed by the Labr)ur party, the rr,;des Hall would pay £.", ls. (id. a year. while tbP Courier Hall would pay £1:)!) !:">,;. iid. The Conrier Hr~ll wants to shift the taxation into '-ome other channel becquse it would fall on thcl economic rent. It is the peopk whose land" are enhanced by the expenditure of public mone~­who 8hon!d pay a land t:1x, "nd many of them are not 1n the colony at o,ll ttnd contribute nothing to the railways. See how the tax would operate; The valuation of property in :::\orth Br1sbane amounts to £\842,000, and, allowing foE ,the exernption, it would an1ount to, Ray, £a,UOO,OOO, which, at ld. in the £, would give £_:ll,OOO. In the country it would operate very ditterently. In the case of Roma municipality, the ,•alt:ation for land tax pmposes would amount to £21,G04, a':d that would produce £!10 Os. 4d., payable bythn-ty-threepersons. The municipality of Charledlle would ouly contribute £:~1 (is. Sd. 'rhen there is the divisional boartl r\lm{d Hmna. For land tax purposes the valuation would he £141,9.i7, and the ta" would amount to .1:591 P,ayu ble by twenty-two person~, as against the {-=-overntnent lana tax or reUuctHHl of endown1ent ';•hie~ would be payable by (iO'i persons. The ':'coLtish Investment Company would pay half t~e tax, .and lour landholders would po,y five­Slxths of It. TheyarethPlarg-e owners who have benefited by the con,trnction of public worb. If it was the desire of the Government to break ap the larg·e estates; that is the wav in which tu do_ it. but at present they are encouraging the b1g man at the expense of the small man. The J:on. member for D~tlby said that it was essential that the House shonl<l know the policy of the Labour party, and I believe the people should know our p•Jlicy ; but there are others besides the leader of thP Lab.mr party who might form a ::\Iini.,try. Take, for instance, the hem. n~embers f~r J~1lby, Loekyer, Toowoomba (Mr. 'IolmH), Cunmn~ham, Aubigny, and the Hon . .Yir. Barlow. If those hon. members formed or comprioed a ::\Iinistry I am sure e\'~ry hnn. member on this side would crcJss over and sit behind them.

The SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member is wandering from the qnestion before the House.

'\Jr. R YLAND: \Ve want a country Ministry, and not so much of the Queen street Ministry. I thm~ that the railway mtes will work very b;;dly mdeed. The old rate for cheese from ;Brisbane to Gympie was 14s. 4d. ; the new rate 1s 4_4g. 4d. ; the same for butter; the old rate for maize was 9s. 2d., and the new rate is 13s. 5d. The imposition of these increased rates will onlv mean that trade will be driven south and <.:.Jneensland will be the loser. Merchants will get their goo,ls direct from the south. It also

~ affects the mining industry most [:J·EO a.m.] matenally. \Ve are informed by

. th_e Press that the :!\1ount Perry copper nnne ;vlll shortly clt)Se down, thn 1nargin of profit havmg been wiped out by the clifference between the old rates and the new ones. I hope that .the railway rates will be reduced, and I certamly hope that the poll to,x will not be unposed, for I fear a revolution. Evtwyone will have to pay £1 a year if he is only gettin" 1 !Is. tld. a year. As regards the income tax~

there should be an exemption of £200, and in the case of the special retrenchment there should be an exemption of £1 Ofl.

Mr. AIREY (Ji'limlcn), after replying to spt>eches on the Govenunent side, anU criticiEing the proposals of the qovernment, said: I belie\'e

in a gradn:tted incnn1e tax, and [:i a. m.] W<•nld treat a ,£;300 incnm" outside

in the same way as a £800 income insidE,. I am very plea--ed, ae a member of a party which is not supposed to have much respect for Governors, to add my tribute of res[•ect to the Govemor of this t\tate for tlw very good exa1i1ple which he ha9 shown in (Jffering to share in the retrenchment with othPr public s~rvants. In 189.i we "erp told that •-everal schednled officers had volnnt.o,rily given up part of their salaries. I find th:tt the otficers who did this were seven J\!Iinisters, the Auditor-General, two members of the L;md Board, and one member of the Civil Servic" Board, and that the total salaries so retrenched wa, £11,100, while the salaries in Schedule B amount to £35,1100. Another question worthy of serious considera­tion is that of local government endowment, the reduction o: which is said to be equivalent to a land tax. This endowment falb alike on the leaseholder and free holder, while" land tax, pure and simple, wonlrl fall most heavily on the popu­lated centres. Cutting down the endowment will, of course, operate most severely on country not yet properly opened up. \Vhat we really require is a differential form of endow­ment similar to that in operation in Victoria. All the proposed new arrangements fall most heavily on the Western country, which is habitu­ally sacrificed for the benefit of one or two big centres. I ventnre to prophesy that if this sort of thing continue.; much longer it will lead to the formation of a country party in opposition to the interests of Brisbane and Townsville. \Ve on this side believe in an income ta.._; in the abolition of the Upper Honse; in civil service economy and uther things ; aud although the Opposition is only about thirty strong, the real enemies of the Government are the deficits.

Mr. PLUNKETT (A/be;·t): The question is, how are we going to get out of our present n1iser­able state? Reference has been made to the Go­vernor being ·willing to forego a portion of his Sd.lary. I hope the Treasurer will not accept any

such offer from a gentleman whocnme [3'30 a. m.] here on the understanding that he

was to get a fixed sum during his term of office. I object nry strong·ly to the increase in railway rates. \Yith resvect to the income tax, I think small incomes should be ex­empted. Those who will most benefit from it will Le the officials appointed to collect it. As one rneans of raising revenue I would suggest the imposition of an export duty on gold. La~t year there were Gt-:3,000 oz. of gold shipped from queensland, and an il!Jport duty of 2~. 6d. per oz. on that would amount to about. £80,000. I intenrl to support the amendment, although I believe the result will be nil. I shoulc' he very glad if I could give my ideas to the Government that thry could act upon, as I fully realise the very d1fficult JWsition they are in, and that if something does not happen qnickly Queensland will be in a worse plight than she has ever been in during the forty years I ho,ve been here.

Mr. KERR, after referring to the condition of the \\'est and the sufferings the people there would ha'e to endure through the pro­posed adrlitional taxation, said: The people in the Barcoo electorate are not satisfied with the Government proposals, and there is a large number of people in other parts of Qneen:-land who are not satisfied with them eicher; and though this amendment may •t be carried, it

182 Want qf Confide,zce 1lfotion. [ASSEMBLY.] Appropriation Bill No. l.

will at least let the peoplP know who ate against the unfair proposals of the Government. I shall certainly vote in favonr of the amend­ment.

Mr. Kidston's amendment put ; and the House divided:-

[4 a.m.J

:Yir.Airey Barber Blair

.. Burrows , Cooper , Cowap , Dibley , Dun~ford ,, l-1ogarty , Grant , ,V, Hamilton , Hardacre ,, Hodge ,. Jackson

.A.Y.E:-:, 27. .:\fr. Kenna

Xerr ,. Kidston ,; Lesina

31artin ., :\fcDonnell , )lulcahy , Nornl~Ln

Plunkett Ryland Sununerville Tnrner Woods

Tellers: 2VIr. Dible)· and :llr .• Taekson.

:.\fr. J..rmstrong ,, Ba1·nes

llell , Boles , Bridges ,, Cameron ,. Campbell , '1\ B. Cribb , llalrymple , Denham ,, ForrPst , Forsyth

.l!10X " Poxton , Garde , J. Hamilton ,. Hanran , Hawthorn ,, Kates

}Ir. Kent Lamout

, J. Leahy ,. P. J. Leaby , JJindley ,, J.yons , 3-iacart.ne,v , ).Iackintosh , :\IcJiaster , :J.Ioore ., O'Connell ,, Paget , Petrie " I1hilp

Sir A. Hutledge }fr. Stodart

.. Story , Tolmie.

Telle;·s: Mr. Bridgeb and :Mr. J:Iacartncy.

P.UR.

Aye-J\Ir. Mnrray-Prior. ~o-lfr. Stephen.-:;. Amendment resolved in the negative.

The TREASURER (Hon. T. B. Cribb, Ips1vich) : Before going into committee I wish to explain to hon. members that it is very advisable that a Supply Bill should be passed through all its stages this morning, so that tbe other Chamber may receive it and deal with it this afternoon.

Original question-That the Speaker do now leave the chair-put and passed.

Cmn.nTTEE. The TREASURER moved that there be

granted, on account for the service of the year 1902-3, a sum not exceeding £700,000 towards defraying the expenses of the variO'lS depart­ments and services of the State.

Mr. LESINA (C/c,.munt) asked for what number of months it was proposed to grant supply?

The TREASURER: Two months. Question put and passed. The House resumed ; and the CHAIRMAN

reported the resolution, and asked leavP. to sit ~a in.

The Committee were given leave to sit again at the next sitting of the House.

The TREASURER : I move that the resolu­tion be received.

Mr. HARD ACRE complained that they were asked to _vote money without being supplied with any partiCulars.

Question put and passed; and resolutions agreed to.

WAYS AND MEANS.

The TREASURER moved that the Speaker leave the ~hair.

JVIr. KIDSTOX did not wish to oppose the motion, as much inconvenience would be caused to people in no way responsible for the present situation, but he gave the Government warning that they could not expect the same consiclemte treatment next year if they did not call Parlia­ment together early enongb to give a fair oppor­tunity for the preliminary business to be dealt with.

The PREl\IIER said three years ago Parlia­ment met on the 27th July. This year it had met very much earlier. If there was any hope of the session terminating earlier, he would be very glad to call P.1rliament together in May. As to the delay in presenting the Appropriation Bill, the Government had been met with two votes of want of eonficlence, anrl could not ha'e proceeded with the Bill a moment earlier.

Question put and passed.

CmniiT'rEE.

On the motion of the TREASURER, it was resolved that £400,000 be granted out of the consolidated revenue fund ; £1\0,000 from trust aHd special funds, and £250,000 from the loan fund account.

The House resumed ; the CHAIIU!AN reported that the Honse had come to certain resolutions ; and the resolutionH were adopted.

APPROPRIATION BILL No. 1.

FIRST RKADING.

A Bill fcunded on the foregoing resolution.< was introduced and read a first time.

SECOND READING.

The TREASURER moved that the Bill be now read a second time.

J\!Ir. LESINA thought the point raised by the leader of the Opposition was worthy of con­sideration. This same sort of business had hap­pened two or three times in different sessions, and the Government were re"ponsible for the delay by rer,son of their not calling Parliament together earlier. All the other colonies met earlier than the Queensland Parliament did.

The SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. member s not discnssing the Bill before the House. The

CJUeotion is the second reading of the Bill, and the hon. member must confine himself to that question.

Mr. LESINA thought this wag a fitting opportunity to make these remarks. The moral was that this Government should not have the unfortunate habit of calling Parliament together earlier than July.

Question put and passed.

COMii!ITTEE AND THIRD READING.

The Bill passed through these stages without discussion, and was ordered to be

[4'30 a. m.] trammitted to the Legislative Conncil for their concurrence, by

message in the usual form. The House adjourned at twenty-seven ntinutes

to 5 o'clock.