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Minutes of the Ninth Meeting of the Jo int Drafting Committee (JDC)

drafting the Lokpal Bill held on 21.06.2011 (Tuesday) at 16:30 hrs.

Room No. 41, North Block.

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The following were present:

Ministers Representatives of Civil Society

(i) Shri Pranab Mukherjee, Minister (i) Shri Shanti Bhushan, Sen

of Finance - Chairperson Advocate- Co-Chairperson

(ii) Dr. M. Veerappa Moily, Minister of (ii) Shri Anna Hazare

Law and Justice - Convener

(iii) Shri Kapil Sibal, Minister of (iii) Shri Justice N. Santosh Hegde

Human Resource Development

and Minister of Communication

and Information Technology.

(iv) Shri Salman Khursheed, Minister (iv) Shri Prashant Bhushanof Water Resources and Minister

of Minority Affairs.

(v) Shri Awind Kejriwal

2.1 The Chairman welcomed the members of the Jo int Draft

Committee to the n inth meeting of the Committee. He stated that in

meeting held o n 2oth June, 2011, the Committee was informed that

minutes of the seventh meeting have been circulated and the memb

of the Civil Society had stated that they would go through the minut

The chairman asked the Members of the Committee whether th

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after the word "he" and before the word "never", the word "almost" may

be added. Shri Prashant Bhushan referring to para 2.3 of the minutes

stated that the sentence "The charges were against the Government and

the Congress Party" may be added in line 4 after the words "Members of

the Committee". With these changes, the minutes of the seventh

meeting of the Committee were taken as confirmed.

2.2 The Chairman, referring to the deliberations that took place in the

meeting held on 20.06.2011, requested the Secretariat of the Committee

to circulate the draft Bill on Lokpal to the Members of the Committee.

He also invited the representatives of the Civil Society to circulate the

draft prepared by them. Thereafter, both the drafts were circulated to

the Members of the Committee. The Members perused the relevant

drafts before further deliberations were initiated.

3.1 Initiating the discussion on the draft of the Lokpal Bill submitted

by the representatives of the Civil Society, Minister of Water Resource

Development took up the clause on "Powers and Functions of Lokpal"

proposed in the draft. Referring to part (e) of the relevant provision he

stated that the proposal was for initiation of prosecution by the Lokpal

before a Special Court established under the PC Act. The subsequent

provision under sub clause (f)was for ensuring due prosecution. In this

context he sought clarification as to whether decision on such exercise

would be taken by the bench or by officers subordinate to Lok Pal,

observing that the two positions would quite be distinct - in case of

decisions taken by the bench and the decisions taken by the

subordinate functionaries.

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proposed was similar to existing procedure as laid down by the PC

and the Cr.PC and also in conformity with the Police Manual. He sta

that the investigation is carried out by the Dy. S.P. who reports to superior officers of S.P. level who and the latter in turn take the decis

as to whether the chargesheet is to be filed or not.

3.3 Referring to the Government's formulation from page 10 onwa

Justice Hegde observed that three investigations were contempla

and opportunity was being provided for being heard at all levels eve

the highest level of the Lokpal. He suggested that the P.E. is require

be discrete and no opportunity as per criminal jurisprudence w

required to be provided at any stage. ~ i n i s t e r f Human Resour

Development reacting to references to sub clauses (I), (4), (6) (9)

(11) of clause 23 stated that opportunity was proposed to be provionly at two stages and certainly not at the stage of P.E. and

proposal was to ensure protection to the public servant, especially si

the protection afforded under section 19, Prevention of Corruption Ac

proposed to be withdrawn.

3.4 Justice N. Santosh Hegde referring to the Supreme Co

decisions in the cases related to SlShri P.S. Badal, Bhattal, Karunak

and Lalu Yadav, stated that the sanctioning authority was only requ

to look into the aspect as to whether the alleged offence under the

Act was committed in discharge of official duties. He further stated

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protection and may not even be able to go to the court against

malicious investigation. Shri Shanti Bhushan stated that in the crim

law the only opportunity available to an accused is before a court of lHowever, the protection to a government servant against a para

executive was insisted upon by Minister of Human Resou

Development.

4.1 The Chairman referring to page 13 and clause 13 (c) of the d

bill submitted by the Civil Society sought confirmation as regards

power of Lokpal to dismiss a suspect officer after conclusion of

investigation and even before commencement of the trial. Shri Arv

Kejriwal confirmed that this was the intention'and also stated that

current practice was also on similar lines.

4.2 Minister of Water Resources sought to know as to whether

decision for prosecution and decision for dismissal would be taken

the same person in the Lokpal. Shri Arvind Kejriwal and the Shri Sh

Bhushan clarified that for the purpose of administrative action

dismissal, the matter can and will be considered by a judicial off

appointed from a panel of retired judges or civil servants. A fur

clarification was sought by Minister of Water Resources indicating

the same would be relevant for a junior level officer but in the case

senior public servant there is a likelihood that both the decisions

taken by the same person.

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powers of 'dismissal' and 'removal' to be given to the Lokpal. Mini

of Law and Justice stated that there was no interference in so far as

criminal action which is required to be taken but st il l there must be

application of mind for arriving at a considered decision stating that

only limited point for consideration was as to how to achieve the s

objective and the formulations could follow.

5. The Chairman suggested the subsequent course of ac

allowing members of the Civil Society to go through the draft prepaby the Government side and to offer their suggestions. He assured

both the drafts would be submitted to the Government for considera

before Cabinet approval is sought and prior to that a meeting

proposed to be held with the political parties and based on the outco

of such consultations, the administrative department would bring

the draft legislation in regular form incorporating all the views

Cabinet approval and for introduction of the Bill in the Parliam

thereafter.

6.1 Shri Anrind Kejriwal sought clarification as to whether the Bill

be specific for the Centre only and whether one of the options, i.e, ei

the government's formulation or the formulation proposed by the

society will be chosen for the final draft. The Chairman confirmed

both the formulations would be considered for the draft. As regards

issue of Lokayuktas being addressed through this legislation, there

be certain impediments as some states have already confirm

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indicated that in that no comments were sought from the S

Governments. The Chairman clarified that RTI and Lokpal are dist

and that decision of consultation with the State Governments was ta

by the Committee as constitutional issues are involved.

7. Shri Anrind Kejriwal requested for audio tapes being provide

the members of the Civil Society. The Chairman stated that the ma

will be looked into.

8. The Chairman expressed his gratitude for the valu

contributions and cooperation by the representatives of the Civil Soc

in assisting the Committee in drafting the Lokpal Bill through a hist

and unique experiment. The Members of Civil Society also expres

their thanks.

9. The Meeting concluded with the vote of thanks to the Chair.