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ME M ORAN DUM OF C ON V E R SAT ION

Da t e : Au gu s t 2 1, 1969 T im e : 1615 - 1815 hou r s Place: St. F r anc i s Hotel,

Sa n F r a n c isc o

SU BJE C T : Tal k s Between P r es i d e n t N ixon an d P r e s i d e nt P ak

P A R T IC IPAN T S : P r es i de n t Richa r d Nixon P r e s i d e n t Pak of t h e R e pu bli c of Korea M I' . Sa n g Ho Ch o (K o r e a n In te r pr e t e r ) Mr . Vi cto r L e e (U. S. Int e rpre t e r)

P residen t Nixon: Befo r e we g o in to a d t a i led di s cu s s i on t oday, I woul d l ik e t o explain a few- item s on my n ew p olicy t o ar d K o r e a. Kim Il- Son g r s re g im e i s on e o f t h e rno st agg r e s s i v e a n d unr e as on a bl e C rmn uni s t c ou n t rie s in t h e world . A s you re a ll, the Puebl o i n c i den t occur r e d be fore I took o v er th e P r eside n c y. Dur ing IllY e lec tion cam ­pa i gn , I note d th a t to g i v e a warnin g t o Nor th Ko rea on c e i s sufficien t. 1£ N o r t h Ko r e a p rov oke s anot h e r provo c a ti v e incident , w e w i ll react, a r e prepa re d to r e a ct and w ill take m ea s u r e s harshe r t h a n t h e e n e m y p r ov o c ati on . Thi s m e ssage w a s give n t o t h e Sovie t Am ba ssa d o r In th e U. S. an d I believ e it wa s con vey e d to North K o rea.

Now I w oul d lik e t o e l a bo rate on my n e w p olic y t ow a r d Asia . T he p r e s s verlooked m y s tatem e nt t o t h e effe ct that t h e U . S . will fulfi ll i t s t rea ty o bligation s w ith t h e As ian cou ntr i e s oncerne d . W e ill honor the U . S . -ROK De f e n s e T r e a t y. Wh a t w e m u t t hin k over i s w h a t wou l d b e t he be s t way to k e ep t h ese c om m i tmen t s . W e h a v e r e lax e d o u r trave l re s t r i c t i on s a n d p u rchas e s wit h re ga r d to C om m u n i s t C hina, bu t w e r e ga rd Commu n i st C h in a as a n aggr e s s iv e n a t i on. U . S . policy towa rd C ornrnu n i s t China ha s not c h a n g e d , an d we will not a drnit t he countr y i n t o the U . 1 . It i s a l s o n e c e ss a r y in t h is c onn e c tion t o p a r atten tion to t he Sin o - Sovie t c on fl ict. As you k n ow , t h e Sov i e t U n ion h a s not h elpe d us in sol v in g t h e is s u e s c oncern ing C ornrnun i s t Ch in a , N OI·t h Ko r ea, the Vietnam War and t h e M i d d l e Eas t. It i s al so one o f t h e countries w hich p rovide m i lit a r y a i d t o N or t h Korea .

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W e c a nn o t c o o perate with t he Sov iet U nion with out t h e l a tt e r ' s r e c i p­r o c a l ac t s . Un d e r the s e c i r c u rn s tan c e s , a c olle ct ive securi ty with the So v ie t s a ga inst C ornrnu n i s t C h ina i s m e a n i n g l e s s . It i s fir s t necessa r y fo r t he Soviets t o act with sin cer ity.

I be lie v e t h a t t h e n on - C om rnun i s t c ount r i es l o c a t ed on t h e perip h ery of Conununis t C h i.na must be s t r e n g t h ened s i n c e t hey are t h r e a t e n e d b y Cornrnun i s t China, North Ko rea a n d N o r t h V i e t n a m . T he Sovie t Union w ill al so become a g rea ter th r e a t t h a n now i f i t i s l eft a l one.

Now with rega rd to Viet n am . we a re a w a r e o f various e fforts ma de by the R O K in Sou t h V ietnam . W e a r e w i thdraw ing ou r tr o o p s f'r orn SVN w hen w e think that t h e Sou th V i tnarrie s e have bu i lt the abilit y to r e p l a c e them . As we i n f o r m e d y ou i n a d -a n ce , I a greed with P re siden t Thieu at M i dw a y to w ith draw 2 5 , 0 0 0 t ro op s . Du r i n g my recent ta l k s w i th h im , we d e ci de d to repla ce rno r e t r o op s i n Augu st, but we h a v e b e e n w i t hholdin g t akin g t h e m e a s u r e du e t o t h e enemy o ffe n s i v e of t w o weeks ago . P r o b a bl y wi t hin a bout 10 da s , Pres i den t T h i eu, General Abrams a n d o the r l e a d e r s concerne d w ill talk 0 e r t he s u bj ect a gain. W e w i.ll inform. y ou i n a dvance th e nurn b e r and tim e o f t hese t roop withd r a wals, which \; ill be c ar rie d out a s l on g a s t h e y d o n ot affe ct our cornbat c apabi litie s .

In regar d t o the Par i s t alk s , I just h a d a t alk w i t h A m bass a d o r Lodg e t o da y , w ho info rme d m e tha t t h e re h a s been n o p rog ress. A s you know, November I i s t h e f i r s t a nn iver sary o f our b orn b ing h a lt . If I had be e n the P resident last Novem be r , I woul d not h a v e h a lte d the bornbi n g . T hi s i s j u s t be tween us; i f t h e r e i s n o fu r t h e r progress in the Pa r is talk s , we w ill r e - e v a l u a t e t h e s ituation abou t Octobe r 1 5 0

I believe t h at your g ov e r n m e n t ' s e ffo rt s t owa rd military and econorn i c self-reliance are the correct r o a d t o t a k e . I ho pe that othe r c ountr ies in Asia w ill f ollo v suit. It is necessary fo r t he U . S . t o c on tin u e to p l a y a g rea t r o l e i n As ia. I thin k t h a t e c on omi c and rni.Ii t a r-y a id to t hose coun t rie s like the ROK w hi c h m a ke self-r e lia n c e effo rt s s h oul d be cont inue d. The self-reliance r e rna r k s you made t hi s rno r- n i.n g (at the P r e s i d i o of Sa n F r an c i s 0), I think , we re g o od ones for Am e rican p u bl i c o p inion to consume . l' s a private c itizen an d g ov e r nment official, I travelle d a g rea t d e a l i n the Pac i fic r e gi on . I can a sure y ou t hat w e w i ll not r e t r eat fr om th e P a c i f i area a nd we will not r e du e our cornrn itrne nt s , but I thi nk we n e e d intelligent pol icy, by g iving aid t o t h e ountr ie s who attem p t t o h elp themselves . I have jus t m a de a general s tatement . Do y ou h a v e a ny q u e s t i on s on s u ch s u b ject s as milita r y e quipmen t a nd econom ic develop m .ent ?

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" President P a k : I a pprec iate h e a ring your fi r m policy to va r d the R O K , As i a in general and t h e Cornrnun i st Blo c . I w ul d lik e t o rriak e U 1Y

views l e a r on the se s ubj ct s . A s y o u kno w , K i m Il - So n g during t he past te n y e a r s o r so ha s a I rno s t c o rn.pl e te d war p repa rati ons to un i fy the cou n t r y by fo r c e. H e is l o ok ing f r an p p ortun i t y to invade t he So ut h . He h a s no t done so be c au se of t h e U . S. cornrnitrrient s t o t he ROK a n d t he presence o f A rne r ican t r o p s in our cou ntry. K i rn w i ll p r o v o k e w a r i f h e belie v e s that th i s A m e r i c a n p l i c y towa r d t h e R O K is g o ing to c h a n g e o r h a s c hanged. K i m ' s object ive in making va rio us p r o v o c a t i on s i s to h a v e A merican t ro ops s tatione d in t h e ROK w i t h d r aw a s t h ey h a ve done in Sout h Vi e t n a rn , a lienate the R OK f r orn th e U . S. and have t h e U. S. n ot i n te r vene w he n a nyt h i ng happen s i n K o r e a . The strengthening o f R O K de fe n se would che c k these p r o v o a tio n s o f K im and h a v e hi m give u p the i d e a of i nva d in g the Sou th b y fo r e. A w a y t o a chieve th i s 0 bj e c t i v e i s t o s trength e n t h e equi prne n t a n d om ha t

capability o f t h e R OK for c e s r a t h er than to stren gthe n U . S. for c es in South K o r e a , to t h e e xtent t hat t he R OK can s inglehandedly resist N orth K ore a n i n v a s i on , s ince the U . S. h a s a ri ou s c o rnrrii.trnent s a ll over t he w or l d.

P re s ident Nixon: If the So iets or the C h in e s e in v ad e the ROK. i t will be a d i ffe rent ball game. Sin c e you wer e in th e m ilitary , I wou l d like t o ela bora te a littl e o n lTIy d e is i on on t he e stablishment o f the A M network. A cco r d in g t o our i nt e lli g e n c e , C ornrnu n ist China \ il l h a e 25 t o 50 IC B M's by 19 7 6 h i c h can h i t t arget s i n t h U. S . We n ow have a bout 1. 000 bu t wi t hout t h e A BM n twork a nu c l e a r c- a r rne d China might be a bl e t o us e n uclear bka c krn a i L a ga ins t non -nuclear cou n t r i e s in A s i a a n d p o s e a danger to t h e U. S. T hat i s why t h is s u b j e ct is so i m portant for the defense and security of the F r e e World.

resident P a k : T o c o n t i n u e m y v iews, the K o r e a n Wa r , a n ti - gue r r i lla operations (in the R OK) a n d Vi e t n a m e s e Wa r have been c a r r i e d well with U. S. a i d . C on c e rning K orea, I d o not think you ha v e to wo rr y a b o u t t h e Korean p r o bl e rn i f our e q u ipmen t is fu rther s t rengthene d . I be li e ve t hat w e c a n meet N o tth K o r e a n t h r e a ts w it h ou t increa sing the p r e s e n t le v 1 of U . S. for ce s i n Sou th K o r e a i f (m ilitary) e quipment i s strengthened.

Pres ident Nixon: In thi s c o nne ction, w e are n o w s t udying s y m pa t h e t ­i cally t he M A P and othe r pr o p o s als your s i d e h as rna d e follow in g M r . Pa c ka r d ' s rec e n t v i s i t t o your c ou n t r y . I am awa r e of the fa c t t hat som e o f t h e R OK unit s a re e q uippe d w it h w eap ons of World War II.

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"" P r e siden t Pale: I a p preciate your explanation of th e so- called N ixon d octr ine on A s ia . I agree in p ri n ciple w it h your n e w p oli y, espe ially on the aspect of h a ving those c ount ri e s which have r e lie d on t h e U. S. s i n c e the e nd of World Wa r II try to he l p thems e l v e s . Some A sia n s , h ow e v e r , are apprehen sive b e c a u s e of t h e i r rr ri s c on e p tion and mis­understan ding o f your p ol i c y , believing that the U . S . irit en d s to was h i t s hands of A s i a . leaving A s i a n p robl ems t o the A s ia n s thems el e s , T h e y w ill n a t u r a lly dis pel thi s apprehension when t h e y fu lly unde r s t a n d y o u r ne v p oli c y " I t will be n e c e ssa r y fo r us to give gui d e lin e s and s tudy methods of gradually decreasing t he U . S . bu rde n s so as t o have thes e As i a n countries a bl e t d e f e nd th e rns e l ve s. in th i s connect i on , I wou l d like to have the U. S. guide var ious countries of A s i a s o t h e y can share t h e r e s p on s i bi lity a nd bur den s i n accordance with t heir r e s p e c ti v e a bi l it v , A t p r e s e n t . s om e c ou nt r i es ar e s h ar ing e x e e s i ve burdens be y o n d t heir a bility an d vi e v'e r s a , The Re p u blic o f K o r e a and J apa n are goo d exampl e s . K orea is n o t on l y d iv i d ed but a ls o is a d e v e l o p ing countr y. J a p a n , d e s p it e i t s s t r ong e .o n o rriy , i s h a r dly carrying it s s h a r e o f th e b u r d e ns in Asia. The J apa n e s e a r e even t r y in r to r e fus e to p r ovi d e m i l i ta r y ba se s t o Ok in a w a when it is returned to J a pa n, t hu s hin der ing the u nity o f A s ia . Se v era l As ia n cou ntries as well as the p e o ple o f South K o r e a a r e di s s a t i s f i e d w i th such a Ja pane se p os tu r e . I do n ot have th e details all t h e bil a t e r a l n e g otiations fo r t h e return o f Ok i n a w a t o J apa n . bu t I be lieve th a t if the is l a n d is t o be reverte d to J a p a n , the J a p a n e s e s h ar e o f t h e burde n s i n A s ia m u s t be increa sed fi r st, be for e Okina w a is a ctu a lly retu rned .

P res ident Nixon: T h i s is a deli ate i s sue b e c a us e 0 1 t h e con s tituti o n of J a pa n w h ich we he l ped dr a ft:. F o r a l on g t irri e I h a v e t h ou gh t t h a t Japan s hould p l a y a rnu ch rno r e s i gni fi c a n t r ole th an the p r e s ent i n its defen s e and col .l.ec ti e econom ic activ i ty . Some p r gres s has been rna de i n t h e e c orio rn i c a s p e c t. A s you a re a w a r e , P'r irne M i n is t e r Sato i s coming h e r e in Nov e rribe r , and we shou l d make every effo r t t o h a v e h im s u rvi ve p oli ti c ally . F r e e Ko r e a is v e r y importa nt to F r e e Jap a n. J a pa s pen ds only a bout one pe rce n t of its G N P in it s de f e n s e , w h ich I b e li eve is t o o s m all.

P r e sid e n t P a k : The J a pa n e s e say t hat t h e defense and s e cu r i t y o f So u th K o r e a and Japa n a re int. e r r e l at e d , but in p r a c t i c e they h ave n It done a n yth ing.

P r e s id e nt N ixon: T hat is true .

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P resi d ent Pak : They t hin k t ha t t he y d o not h ave to d o anything s i nce the y have S outh K o r e a in f ront of them and the U . S . in b a c k of them . T h ey need U . S . adv ic e in this r e gard. F o r exa mple, m ost o f t h e ' Iequ i pm e n t" c a r r i e d b y N o r th K o r e a n guerrillas who h ave i nfiltrated into South Korea s u ch as their r a d i o s and sho es a re m a de i n Japan . A l though w e ma d e a p rote s t aga inst t h i s , they continue t o s e ll these i tem s to make a profi t. T h u s the p eopl e o f South Kore a have no good f e e lin g s tow a r d the .L a p a.n e s e , In c ident ally , t here h a ve b een reports to the effect t hat since Ame r i c a n troops have been withdrawing , other a lli e d tr o ops might f o llow suit. It i s m y t h i nkin g tha t u nl e s s we a re r eques te d by South Vietnam or t h e U. S ., we w i ll continue to s tation ou r t r o op s in Vie tnam .

P r e s i d e n t Nix on: T her e ha s b e e n no pr o gres s in the P a ris talk s, an d N ove m b e r 1 is the fir s t annive rsary o f our bombing halt . What d o you thin k our ta ctics shou l d b e? Do you thin k we s h ould r e open t h e bom bing s?

P r e s i d e n t Pak: It is u p to your decision , but I think it i s d i fficult (to r e o p en t h e b om b i n g s ) because of you r domestic public opinion . When I w a s informed by Amba ssador Porter re g a rdin g t he b ombing halt , l a st Nov embe r, I t old him how w~ wou l d b e tak i ng this ~etion without rec lproca l ac tion or comm itment o n the par t o f North ·Vi e t n am.

Pre s i d e n t N i x o n : In the event that we resume our bombing s , what do y ou thi nk t h e r eaction s of A sia woul d b e?

P r e s iden t Pak: Free countr ie s in As i a would wel c ome it. Bu t i t i s up to you r decision .

P r esident N ix o n : Wha t is you r v i ew on t he Sino-Soviet conflict? How d e e p d o you think it i s and h o w lon g d o y ou believe it m i ght la s t ?

Presid ent P ak : We h ave a na lyz ed the situation a g reat d eal. Th e re i s a 50 -50 chance a war m ight break out between the two count r ies . Some beli eve that a war will not be staged sinc e both of t hem k n o w they b o t h w ou ld s u ffer a g r eat d e al of damage and a war might be a prolong ed one . On the othe r hand , s o m e interpret that the l o n g e r the present c on fl i c t c o n tin u e s , the h a r de r fo r t h e Soviet s to deal with Communist China . W e also have information t hat the Soviet military takes a hawkish att itude . One t h ing i s cert ain , though - - t he pre s ent con flict will not be solved in t h e n e ar future.

PRESEPVAT :;i·: C>J PY T O P SE 6-B..,E T /E Y ES ONLY

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SEC RE T / E Y E S ON L Y - 6 ­

P r es i d e n t Nixon: I op p o s e the vie w that t h e U . S. and th e U . S. S. R. sh ou l d co op e r a t e t o r e s t r a i n C om muni s t Chin a. Bo t h t he Sovie t U n io n a n d Chi na a re our p o t e nt ia l erierny , and thi s view does n ot make sen se . If t h e So v i e t. Uni on s we e p s ov e r C h i n a , t h e f o r rne r wil l get s t r ong e r , p os i ng a g reate r t hreat t o A s i a .

Presid e n t P a k: I ag ree wit h ou ,

P r e s i d e n t Nix on : T h i s explain s the r e a s on w hy we h ave e a se d t h e t ravel r e s t r i c ti ons a n d p u r c ha s e s . We a re tr y in g t o d i s p e l the So v i e t ide a o f opp o si n g Ch in a b y co operat in g w it h the U. S. Bu t we w i ll con t inu e t o sup po r t F r e e h i na, a n d ou r p olic y t ow ar d C mmu n i s t Chi n a rema in s th e s a rn e a s b e f o r e .

P re s i de nt Pak: It wou l d b e bet t er fo r us to remove b o th p ow e r s th a n ha v e o ne o f t he p ow e rs g e t s tr on ger t h a n t h e other .

P r e s id e n t t x orr : T he e c o n om i.c g r o w th r a t e in s u h c ou n t ri e s as S o u th K o rea, Japa n, Singapo re. F r e e Chin a a n d T haila n d ha s g rown h i ghe r t h a n othe r c ou nt r i e s o f t h e wo r l d , w h e r e a s th e ec onomic le v el o f C h i na a n d No r t h K o r e a h a s b e e n l ow e r e d . N ow the da n ge r i s in an a rea o f of s u bv e r s i on . T h i s is a c u t e in t h e R OK , fo r example , becau se o f fo r c e s l yin g be y o n d t h e p a r a lle l. A l t h ou gh , as y o u k n o w , p u blic opin i o n h e r e d erna n d s re du cti o n of t r o op s we h a v e a ll o ve r t he world, I r e j ected th e i d e a o f d e c r ea sin g t h e nurn b e r o f ou r m e n s ta y ing in t h e R OK. I w i ll m.a ke thi s v i e w clear t o t he p u bl i c to wa rn K i m Il - Song . I had t a lk s w i th G e n e ra l B on e s t eel, a n d du r in g t he l a s t Cab inet meet ing we received a r e p o r t t hat t h s upp ly o f s m a ll s hips to th e R OK Nav y h a s p r o g r e s s e d a t a fa st tem p o . A lth ou gh 1.1 1' d e f en s e budget th is y e a r i s tigh t , I t h in k we will be a ble t o m e t s om e o f the r e q u est s the R OK h as ma d e . I d o n ot w a n t t o g ive a w r ong no tion t o K iln II -Son g th a t t he U . S. is l e s s e n i n g i t s re s pon s i bil i t y f o r th e d e f e n se o f the R OK . Now , I k n ow y o u have va r i ou s econ o m .i c p r o g r a rns u nde r wa y . T h i s w i ll be kn own in tw o to t h ree weeks, bu t 1 w ou l cl like t o i nform you t ha t t o da y t h e E x p o r t - Imp o rt Ba nk h a s d e c i d e d t o g ive $ 7 3 m illi on t o t he RO K fo r t h e on s t r uc t ion o f one p ow e r pla n t a n d a n atom i c p ow e r pla n t. Sin c e I h e a r d that you r c ou n t ry wan t s m o r e pri va t e in e s tment unlik e s o m e o f the A s ia n c oun t r ie s , I plan to e n ou r a g e t h i s as p e c t.

P r e s id e n t P a k : A s I t o l d y ou in t h e c a r (w h i l e p r o ce d i n g to t he St. F r a n ci s H otel fro m t h e P r e s i d io of Sa n F r a n c i s c o ), t h e R OK i s i n ­d e bt e d t o t h e U. S . fo r i t s e c onom i c g r owth . O u r " f inan c ia l i n d c p e nd n ee r a t e " un t i l a fe w year s a g wa s a bou t 50 p e r c e n t. It w i l l b e 9 4 . 8 per c e n t

- TLYP SE C R E T / E YE S ON L Y

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""'" i n t he n e x t fi s ca l yea r and almo s t 100 p e r cen t i n t h e y e a r afte r n e xt. We will. h o weve r , n eed s u r plus a g r i u lt ura l p r o du ct s for t he time be i n g . We h a v e e ncou rage d expor t s to o bt a i n rn o r e fo r e i gn cur re nc y and pr i va t e in es tment. T he Sou t h K o r e a n p e opl e h a v e be en m a k in g e ffor t s t o c h i e v e a s e lf - in d e p e n d e n t ec onom y , a n d 1 h op e y o u would c o n s ide r g iv ing u s a s s i s t a n c e t o ach ie v e t h i s t a r g e t dur i n g t h e n e x t seve ral y e a rs .

Pr e s i d e n t Nixon : I h ave h e l d t h e s a m e v i ew s inc e m y f i r s t v is i t t o yo u r cou n t r y i n 19 5 3 . It is diffi c u lt w it h t h i s y e a r ' s budg e t , but t h e R O K i s a n exception.

P r e s i d e n t Pak: T he U . S . has bee n imp osing a re s t r i c tion on it s im p o r t o f t e x til e s , bu t I h o p e tha t you make th e R O K an exc e pt ion i n t h e m e aS U1"C s o a s t o h e l p the c ou n t r y a c h i e v e i t s e c o ri orn i c inde p e nde n c e .

P r e s id e nt Nix on : T he m att e r on the t e xt i l e s m a i n l y con c e r n s J a p a n. The R OK h a s e n te red t h e t e x til e m a r k e t on l y dur i n g t h e r e c e n t y e a rs . I h o p e t h a t a r ea s ona Le s ol u t i on a n b e fo u n d to sa t i sfy bo th the R O K an d J a p an . W e can discu ss the rna tt e r in d e ta il t orno r r ow , bu t t h i s is 110 t a n ea s y p r obl e m t o s o l v e . I w i ll t r y t o d e a l with t h e ROK p roble m. d i screetly .

P r e si d e n t Pak: I t:h i n k I have tol d a ll t h e s u bjects I h a d i n m ind.

P l"eS id e n t Nixon : O n th e t r o o p rna tt e r , I will info rm you tomo rr ow if our govc r mnen t a nd P r e s i d e nt T h i e u h a v e dec i d e d on it. W e a re p a r tn e r s in o u r c orrirnori s t r u g g l e . I know t h a t f o r t h e R O K p o p ula tion , Sou t h K o re a ha s s e n t rno r e t r o o p s i n p e r c e n ta g e t h a n the U " S . h a s d on e . I will inform. y ou o f a ll th e m e a s u r e s we p l a n t o take on Vi e t n a m. as th ey OC C l1l" .

P r e s i d e nt P a le: I a p p rec iate liste n in g t o y our v iews on a r i o u s s ubj e c t s . I a m encour a ge d t o h e ar y o u r r em ark s on the K o r ea n p r o bl em .

P res i de n t Nixo n: I · i s a l i t tl e n o i s y ou t s i d e , but p l e se r eme m b e r tha t 9 8 p e r c e n t o f t he Arne r i c a n p e o pl e a r e K r ea I s f r i end s .

~RET / E YE S O N L Y ---....