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Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Nicole "Nikki" Fried, Commissioner 1-800-HELP-FLA www.800helpfla.com

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AGENDA

BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL SURVEYORS AND

MAPPERS

RULES COMMITTEE

Virtual Meeting

July 31, 2020

8:30 a. m.

Members: Steven Hyde, Committee Chair

Michael Zoltek

Chris McLaughlin

I. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL

II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

III. REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF FEBRUARY 4, 2020 RULES COMMITTEE MINUTES

IV. 5J-17 RULE OPENING

V. OLD/NEW BUSINESS

VI. PUBLIC COMMENT

V. ADJOURN

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1 MINUTES 2 3 BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL SURVEYORS AND 4 MAPPERS 5 6 RULES COMMITTEE 7 8 HILTON OCALA 9 3600 SW 36TH AVENUE

10 OCALA, FLORIDA 34474 11 12 Tuesday, February 4, 2020 13 14 The meeting was called to order by Steven Hyde, Committee Chair, at 11:11 a.m. 15 16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT 17 18 Steven Hyde, Committee Chair 19 Chris McLaughlin 20 Michael Zoltek 21 22 OTHERS PRESENT 23 24 Nick Campanile, Board Chair 25 Frank Conkling, Board Vice Chair 26 George Grubbs, Board Vice Chair 27 Keith Fountain, Board Member 28 Michael Zoltek, Board Member 29 Ia Hall, Board Member 30 David Schryver, Board Member 31 Liz Compton, Executive Director 32 Regenia Lee, Government Analyst 33 John Minnick, Acting Board Counsel 34 Amanda McKibben, Prosecuting Attorney 35 Corey Fedrick, Investigator 36 Francisco Rivera 37 Howard Ehmke 38 Luis Pacheco 39 David Melvin 40 Brice Hellstrom 41 Dianne Collins 42 Robert Thompson 43 Alvin Gloer 44 Lou Campanile 45 John Breed 46 Jay Sturgeon 47 Don Elder 48 Mike Osipov 49 John Archer 50 Priscilla Seleska 51 Doug Hinton 52 Amy Topol 49 50

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51 REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF THE OCTOBER 2019 RULES COMMITTEE MINUTES 52 53 After discussion, the following motion was made: 54 55 MOTION: Mr. McLaughlin made a motion to approve the October 2019 minutes. 56 SECOND: Mr. Zoltek seconded. 57 ACTION: The motion passed unanimously. 58 58 UPDATE ON QUESTIONS RECEIVED ON PAST RULE CHANGE

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60 Mr. Hyde suggested that the questions be categorized, come up with answers, and report 61 back at the May 2020 Board meeting. 61

62 ONGOING LIST OF POTENTIAL LAWS AND RULES

63

62 Mr. Campanile said that he keeps a running list of possible rule change suggestions. He also said that there have been rule change suggestions submitted by others and that everyone should keep a list of suggestions so that when Rule 5J-17 or a statute opens, that we could be prepared to make necessary changes.

63 64 PUBLIC COMMENT

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66 Ms. Collins said that she was approached with a question about a specific product. She said that it’s not specifically to interpretation of an existing rule and should she submit the question for interpretation. Mr. Hyde agreed that the question could be submitted to the Committee or to the Board staff for handling.

66 ADJOURNMENT – The Rules Committee was adjourned at 11:35 a.m.

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LIST OF POTENTIAL RULE AND LAW CHANGES TO CONSIDER 5/4/20 - NC

This is just my list which is a quick compilation of many comments over several meetings and from others

I have met and listened to concerns. Other Board members may have more to add FSMS can be the

entity to act on them.

Experience requirements for examination 472.013 (472 responsible charge experience vs 471 capable of responsible charge experience). Chapter 471 & 472 differ in experience. 471.013 states the engineering applicant has a record of 4 years of active engineering experience of a character indicating competence to be in responsible charge. A surveying applicant must be or have been in responsible charge. This was mentioned at the July 2019 Rules committee meeting. July 2019 Rules Committee mtg. – Lou Campanile suggested getting rid of LB and consider decoupling,

like the engineers recently did. Jenna mentioned that was good topic for GB and it did come up and was

motioned to have the Rules Committee look into it. This was not brought up in October 2019 meeting.

For 5J, need to add Special Purpose Survey to clear the uncertainty (5J-17.050(11)).

5J-17.020 - NCEES Record re: Applications for Exam - John Minnick mentioned 1/10/13 that 5J-17.020

regarding NCEES application info is written poorly and should be considered for a rule revision. At the

very least, consider changing “…(NCEES) Record will…” to “(NCEES) Record can…”.

5J-17.043 – approving CE providers – consider reviewing this section. Discussion at Oct 2019 meeting

involved professional surveyor and mapper can mean LB or LS, or both. At our CE committee meeting,

legal counsel felt it included LB due to 472 infers it. Please check me on this. Also, during the Feb 2020

meeting the lack of definition of “Commercial Educator” came up and that may also need a change in

rule. FYI, the engineering rule does have a definition of Commercial Educator.

5J-17.050 – it has been mentioned to bring back definitions, particularly as-built survey. This

comment/request has primarily come from city/county surveyors.

5J-17.051(2) sections (a), (b) and maybe (c) could be revisited. Particularly (a) and (b).

5J-17.051(3)(a) – bring back the 3rd option. It used to state map, report or map and report. Now it is

more restrictive and a map must accompany a report. Also, this touches 052(1)a.

5J-17.051(3)(d) – It was requested at October 2019 meeting to look into “last date of data acquisition”.

Is it field data, or other data, or all?

Look into 5J-17.052(1). There seems to be confusion for much of it.

How does 5J-17.052(1) apply when there is no parcel of record? Such as when a plat is phased and the

phase line is new, or when platted lots are surveyed and monumented during the platting process?

Check this last statement in 177.

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5J-17.052(1)(c) - why must a map be created? What if the client doesn’t want one? If the client only

wants a corner to be monumented, or a monument confirmed, then must that client have a sketch?

Professional judgement?

5J-17.052(2)(f) - Side ties to locate or set monuments shall be substantiated by multiple measurements.

I think adding independent verification here would be helpful.

5J-17.052(2)(a), 5J-17.052(2)(b)7, & 5J-17.052(2)(c): May readdress issue folks have about pin-

cushioning (requirement to monument corners yet consider factors of unable to set, and then also

offset mon). I think OK as written although it could be a bit more clear. Some folks feel it a violation if a

mon is not set when one is called off, regardless of how much one is called off. Some folks in local

government apparently do not accept surveys that do not have corners monumented but have mons

called off.

It was suggested in the October 2019 meeting to look into survey updates, to be certain they are

updated to current standards. Are rule(s) clear?

Look into 5J-17.062 to help clear the air as I have heard of confusion. Is it clear to you? Feb 2020 – Don

Elder mentioned the clarity of Kentucky’s rules on this vs our 062.

5J-17.085 – October 2019 meeting it was addressed to add this to the list as a section to look into and

see if needing revising. Applicable to probationers and survey info they are to provide (some don’t

understand they need to provide everything). Think phasing surveys thru construction (vacant, form

board, spot/foundation, final).

Probationers: October 2019 - Steve Hyde suggested having a higher level of SOP course for

probationers, such as maybe one taught at UF. Frank Conkling suggested maybe a probationer submit a

report explaining everything they did, in particular, explain phased surveying such as vacant, form

board, foundation, final.

Various 5J-17 sections that include URL’s/forms/applications that may need updating (some may not

need an update): 010, 028, 029, 036, 037, 043, 048, 063, 080, 086.

By the way – per Jenna at the October 2019 meeting, the changes to 5J-17.007, 021, 048, 070 & 085 have been approved and should be/are in place. Please consider these changes for future use. Here are the section titles (emphasis added to those we may use often) 5J-17.007 Exemption from Renewal Requirements for Spouses of Members of the Armed Forces of the United States 5J-17.021 Applications for Licensure: Education 5J-17.048 Reinstatement of Null and Void License 5J-17.070 Fees 5J-17.085 Survey Review

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