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bHorayot 14a (Paris 1337) 1 A] R. Yohanan said: R. Simeon b. Gamaliel and the Rabbis disagree. One side maintains that "Sinai" is preferable. The other side side maintains that "Mountain Uprooter" is preferable. R. Yosef was a "Sinai." Rabbah was a "Mountain Uprooter." They sent to there (i.e. Palestine): Between "Sinai" and "Moun- tain Uprooter" which takes precedence? They replied to them: "Sinai" takes precedence; in accordance with the Tannaitic teaching, "All are dependent on the wheat seller." Even so, R. Yosef did not accept it upon him. Rabbah ruled for twenty-two years and then R. Yosef ruled. All the the years during which Rabbah ruled, Rab Yosef did not call even a bloodletter to his house. B] Abaye, Rava, R. Zera, and Rabbah b. Mattena were sitting (in study) and needed a leader. They said: whomever says a matter which can not be refuted- let him be the leader! (The statements) of all of them were refuted. That of Abaye was not refuted. Rava saw that Abaye held up his head. He said to him: Namani, begin and say something! The question was asked: Between R. Zera and Rabbah b. R. Mat- tena which of them take precedence? R. Zera was "Spicy and dificult." Rabbah son of R. Mattena was "measured but able to arrive at conclusions." Do we not know? Let (the question) Stand! ) א" ע יד הוריות בבליParis 1337 ( [ א סיני' אמ חד ורבנןג' רשב פליגי יוחנן' ר' אמ עדיף הרים עוקר' אמ וחד עדיף הרים' עוק רבה סיני יוסף רב לתמן שלחו2 מיניהו הי הרים ועוקר סיני עדיף3 עדיף סיני להו שלחו מר דאמר4 צריכי הכל חיטיא למרי יוסף רב עליה קביל לא הכי' ואפי רב מלך והדר שנין ותרתין עשרין רבה מלך יוסף אומנא' אפי יוסף רב רבה דמלך שני כולהו קרא לא לביתיה5 [ ב הוו מתנה רב בר ורבא זירא' ור ורבא אביי לרישא צריכי והוו יתבי6 אמרי7 להוי מפריך לא מילתא' דאמ כל רישא אפריך לא דאביי איפריך דכולהו רישיה דגבה לאביי רבא חזייה אימא פתח נחמני ליה' אמ8 הי מתנה רב בר ורבה זירא' ר להו איבעיא עדיף מיניהו ומקשה חריף זירא' ר ומסיק מתון מתנה רב בר רבה ידעינן לא מאי9 תיקו1. Talmudic material is presented to the reader from a single extant witness of that text, textual variants are provided in the footnoted. Translations, unless noted, are my own. 2. In MS Munich 95, this is, 'להת, "to there." 3. The prints render the question in Hebrew, " קודם מהןאיזה." 4. As all the other witnesses read, " מרדאמר" here I have added it here. On this term, see: Avraham Weiss, Le-korot hithavut ha-Bavli [Heb] (Warsaw: 1929). 5. In the printed versions, the verb here is חליף, which might be translated "to barter for." MS Munich 95 places the verb קראbefore both direct and indirect objects, reading, " לביתיה' אומנ' קרלא," 6. All other witnesses lack the preposition "ל," which functions here as a direct object marker. 7. The Venice print lacks the letter י, as if this were a singular verb. 8. The prints read, " פתח ו אימא," Munich 95 also reads, " אימ פתחנחמני'" but places the phrase, in error, before, " לאביי רבאחזייה." 9. Both MS Munich 95 and MS Bazzano ebr. 26-27 have " עדיף מיניהוהי," whereas the prints simply have "מאי."
Transcript
Page 1: New (Paris 1337) א ע די תוירוה ילבב bHorayot 14a (Paris 1337)1noahbickart.fastmail.fm/TRS319/abaya_rava.pdf · 2018. 9. 17. · יה הנתמ בר רב הברו אריז

bHorayot 14a (Paris 1337)1

A]R. Yohanan said: R. Simeon b. Gamaliel and the Rabbis disagree.One side maintains that "Sinai" is preferable. The other side side maintains that "Mountain Uprooter" is preferable. R. Yosef was a "Sinai." Rabbah was a "Mountain Uprooter."They sent to there (i.e. Palestine): Between "Sinai" and "Moun-tain Uprooter" which takes precedence? They replied to them: "Sinai" takes precedence; in accordance with the Tannaitic teaching, "All are dependent on the wheat seller." Even so, R. Yosef did not accept it upon him. Rabbah ruled for twenty-two years and then R. Yosef ruled.

All the the years during which Rabbah ruled, Rab Yosef did not call even a bloodletter to his house.

B]Abaye, Rava, R. Zera, and Rabbah b. Mattena were sitting (in study) and needed a leader.

They said: whomever says a matter which can not be refuted- let him be the leader! (The statements) of all of them were refuted. That of Abaye was not refuted. Rava saw that Abaye held up his head. He said to him: Naḥmani, begin and say something!

The question was asked: Between R. Zera and Rabbah b. R. Mat-tena which of them take precedence? R. Zera was "Spicy and dificult." Rabbah son of R. Mattena was "measured but able to arrive at conclusions."Do we not know? Let (the question) Stand!

)Paris 1337בבלי הוריות יד ע"א (א]

אמ' ר' יוחנן פליגי רשב'ג ורבנן חד אמ' סיני עדיף וחד אמ' עוקר הרים עדיף

רב יוסף סיני רבה עוק' הרים סיני ועוקר הרים הי מיניהו 2שלחו לתמן

3עדיף הכל צריכי 4דאמר מרשלחו להו סיני עדיף

למרי חיטיא

ואפי' הכי לא קביל עליה רב יוסף מלך רבה עשרין ותרתין שנין והדר מלך רב

יוסף כולהו שני דמלך רבה רב יוסף אפי' אומנא

5לביתיה לא קרא

ב]אביי ורבא ור' זירא ורבא בר רב מתנה הוו

6יתבי והוו צריכי לרישא

כל דאמ' מילתא לא מפריך להוי 7אמרירישא

דכולהו איפריך דאביי לא אפריך

חזייה רבא לאביי דגבה רישיה 8אמ' ליה נחמני פתח אימא

איבעיא להו ר' זירא ורבה בר רב מתנה הי מיניהו עדיף

ר' זירא חריף ומקשה רבה בר רב מתנה מתון ומסיק

תיקו9מאי לא ידעינן

1. Talmudic material is presented to the reader from a single extant witness of that text, textual variants are provided in the footnoted. Translations, unless noted, are my own.2. In MS Munich 95, this is, 'להת, "to there." 3. The prints render the question in Hebrew, "איזה מהן קודם."4. As all the other witnesses read, "דאמר מר" here I have added it here. On this term, see: Avraham Weiss, Le-korot hithavut ha-Bavli [Heb] (Warsaw: 1929).5. In the printed versions, the verb here is חליף, which might be translated "to barter for." MS Munich 95 places the verb קרא before both direct and indirect objects, reading, "לא קר' אומנ' לביתיה," 6. All other witnesses lack the preposition "ל," which functions here as a direct object marker.7. The Venice print lacks the letter י, as if this were a singular verb.8. The prints read, " אימאופתח ," Munich 95 also reads, "נחמני פתח אימ'" but places the phrase, in error, before, "חזייה רבא לאביי."9. Both MS Munich 95 and MS Bazzano ebr. 26-27 have "הי מיניהו עדיף," whereas the prints simply have "מאי."

Page 2: New (Paris 1337) א ע די תוירוה ילבב bHorayot 14a (Paris 1337)1noahbickart.fastmail.fm/TRS319/abaya_rava.pdf · 2018. 9. 17. · יה הנתמ בר רב הברו אריז

בבלי סוכה יח ע"אאתמר, סיכך על גבי אכסדרה שיש

לה פצימין - כשרה. שאין לה פצימין,אביי אמר: כשרה, ורבא אמר פסולה.

אביי אמר כשרה (יח ע"ב) אמרינן: פי תקרה יורד וסותם.

רבא אמר פסולה: לא אמרינן פי תקרה יורד וסותם.

אמר ליה רבא לאביי: לדידך דאמרת פי תקרה יורד וסותם - אפילו הפחית דופן אמצעי! - אמר ליה: מודינא לך

בההיא, דהוה ליה כמבוי המפולש.

לימא אביי ורבא בפלוגתא דרב ושמואל קמיפלגי, דאתמר: אכסדרה

בבקעה, רב אמר: מותר לטלטל בכולו, דאמרינן פי תקרה יורד

וסותם. ושמואל אמר: אין מטלטלין בה אלא בארבע אמות, דלא אמרינן

פי תקרה יורד וסותם.

אליבא דשמואל - כולי עלמא לא פליגי. (יט ע"א) כי פליגי אליבא

דרב; אביי כרב. ורבא אמר לך: עד כאן לא אמר רב התם אלא דמחיצות

לאכסדרה הוא דעבידי, אבל הכא דלאו להכי עבידי - לא.

Babylonian Talmud 18a-19aIt was stated, If one put a Sukkah-covering over an exedra which has door-frames, it is valid; if it has no door-frames, Abaye declares it valid and Rava declares it invalid.

Abaye declares it valid [since] we say that the edge of the roof [of the exedra is regarded as though it] descends and fills up [the space],

Raba says it is invalid, since we do not say that the edge of the roof de-scends and fills up [the space].

Said Raba to Abaye, According to you who say that the edge of the roof [is regarded as though it] descends and fills in [the space, is a Sukkah valid] even if the middle wall is missing? He answered him, Inthat case I agree with you [that the Sukkah is invalid] since it would belike an alley-way that is open on two opposite sides.

Maybe Abaye and Rava differ on the same principle as that on which Rav and Samuel differed! It was stated, If an exedra was in a field, Ravdeclares that it is permitted to carry [on the Sabbath] over the whole extent of it, since we say that the edge of the roof descends and fills in the space, while Samuel said that it is forbidden to carry in it except within four cubits, since we do not say that the edge of the roof de-scends and fills in [the space]?

[No!] With regard to the opinion of Samuel neither of them disagrees; they only differ with regard to the opinion of Rab. Abaye agrees with Rab, while Raba can say that Rab ruled then only in that case, since the partitions are made for the exedra, but in the case here, since they are not made for this purpose [he would] not [rule this way].

A Roman "Exedra"


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