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The Peace Ambassador Training Living Systems with Riane Eisler

June 25, 2014 [0:00:00] Philip: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Peace Ambassador Training

program. This is Philip Hellmich the Director of Peace for Shift Network and were very delighted. Were going to go deeper into the Fourth Pillar of Mastering Systems Change. Were expecting Riane Eisler to be on the phone with us momentarily and to get started here, we have a special guest who is calling in all the way from the Melbourne area of Australia to lead our meditation and Trevor we are just really delighted that youre here to do this and also I just want to thank you for your beautiful contributions that youve been writing for the community sharing. So Trevor, thank you.

Trevor: Its been a pleasure, thank you Philip and James. Philip: All right. Trevor, if youd like to go ahead and go ahead and lead us in a

meditation, were all yours. Trevor: Thank you. Well Im going to now if you feel comfortable doing so to

allow your eyes to close. James: Have to bring up the volume there. Philip: Softly. You may care to make the decision to put the concerns of the day

to one side just for a moment. If you choose to pick them up again later theyll be there or maybe not. Allow your breathing to settle. Consider for a moment there the use of technology to connect something not available only a generation ago and an extension of mind. In the world of appearances we are thousands of miles apart yet at the click of a button here we are; comfortable in community, immunity, and common unity. With so much more in common than the ways we appear to differ bathing our world in the compassionate expression of in connectedness and sameness.

Isnt it wonderful to be in a space by where we can simply be ourselves,

knowing that well never be judged an experience denied many on this planet? Where the only silly question is the one not asked. It is quite often the question forming in our mind of being formed in the minds of others sitting around our little camp fire. If we dont ask our question or contribute to the conversation around the campfire, and others are

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equally shy that which needs to be heard is not heard. No one can say what you are here to say.

Last week we were reminded by David Korten that peace is both an

internal and external process. We dont see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. So with the myriad of densities we can bring to each daily encounter your duty is to bring forward what is being allowed to come out to play? We are given so many chances to choose our priority each day. Do you want to be right or do you prefer to be at peace and perhaps create a more peaceful and healing encounter? Its always our choice. No one can make that choice for us.

A powerful question we could powerfully ask ourselves in any

circumstance is who, do I know myself to be. That is, which me am I bringing to the table? What is my intention here? Where am I placing my intention? But the overworking question is who do I know myself to be? Because from that beingness we all speak and act to create a bridge over troubled waters or to widen the imagined chasm that seems to loom between us and the other. The truth is our beloved mirror. All of our experiences are a reflection of our current expression of Self, theyre our answer to this universal question.

[0:05:05] Each moment we can numb ourselves to be the true Self so what we do

becomes less important and who we are in the doing of it. Yet be patient and give it to me now we cry. But instead of patience, we are given wonderful opportunities to practice faith. Im so lonely I need love we cry but instead of receiving love, we are reminded that love is our identity. We are given an opportunity to share that gift. So let us breathe that awareness in, deepen that awareness with each breath. Let that awareness awaken us to our true identity free of the labels of the external world may attempt to play. May our life be a reflection of that.

So when youre ready Id like you to open your eyes and welcome the

discussion to follow it. Philip: Beautiful Trevor. Thank you again so much for your presence and this

beautiful, beautiful meditation. Trevor: Thank you for opportunity to serve the community, thank you Philip. Philip: Oh well my friends wow, okay. I just love this global community and the

fellowship that we have here and just really really grateful for everyone whos participating from several countries around the world. Just a few announcements, again the Summer of Peace is just phenomenal so if you

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havent signed up, please do so, SummerOfPeace.net. If you want to become a Shift Network affiliate and help spread the word about the Summer of Peace and also possibly earn some income, just go to the website and sign up, Shift Network website and sign up to be an affiliate and we will be able to help you there. We have a few people who are volunteering to lead meditations in the next couple of classes so Im really grateful for that. First anyone else please send an email to Philip@TheShiftNetwork.com.

And if youre having technical difficulties during this call, please let us

know and James just going to pass it over to you to connect last class with this one and just let you know that were still waiting for Riane to join the class. She had confirmed by email so well keep you posted on that.

James: Okay. Lets call in Riane wherever you are Riane we need you and your

wonderful wisdom this evening. Wow, what fabulous myth busting about money and power by David Korten and that early book he wrote When Corporations Ruled the World was certainly influential on me and that its wisdom is so revealed, so true today that the acquisition of wealth doesnt conglomeration of wealth the concentration of wealth is not feeding the system in the way it needs to. Its not being distributed. Its not creating the kind of dynamic growth at the local levels. Theyre so needed and certainly also that consciousness in terms of what the planet needs is not always there. Although you do find remarkable consciousness in certain new corporate enterprises, ecological sustainable work practice, community building.

So its not all a bad news. Theres lot of new corporate initiatives that are

really very inspired by this whole consciousness. Then David talks about thinking from the biosphere to the bioregions to sustainable communities. Because enfolded patterns and organizational processes always moving in consonance with each other.

[0:10:01] And the sustainability of economy and ecology, the marriage of the two

comes from the word eco, the home. You know, the study of how the ecological, the home system works and how it can feed our economies. Then very much seeing that we find in Riane also systems organization around values. That systems organize themselves around values. So hence we really only declare our values and start to live our values whereas the systems that reflect them. And then what I loved also about this presentation was that sense of dialogue with the other and the presence of love. I mean you talk about love in the Occupy Movement and how we can utilize post slowing down the Slow Food Movement, the

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Slow Money Movement which is about you know, investing in your local community. Maybe you dont get the same kinds of returns as you do with spinning the wheel on Wall Street but you feed communities. You help them to sustain themselves. The speed comes from the technologies that allow us to communicate, to share ideas, to be dynamically creative in a planetary way.

So I think what Id like to do also is just as weve done in this systems

pillar, we share some of those 12 simple rules we developed in Washington. So let me just go through a few more of those. Weve hit on several of them already but as I mentioned there theyre in the chapter in Cultivating Peace entitled peace work and whole systems shift.

The very simple rule is systems move between various degrees of stability

and instability order and disorder. Thats how systems work. When the disorder becomes too great, things fall apart. When the order is too rigid, things cant grow or develop. So instability is an aspect of chaos, a certain degree of instability known as the edge of chaos can be where creativity and innovation occur. Therefore the rule is do not fear chaos but use it to bring about greater coherence. Fascinating themes in systems work in terms of looking at right there at the edge of chaos where theres a certain degree of unpredictability and instability. Things can shift, can move dynamically. Systems can change radically. Small you know, small interventions can have huge repercussions. So we want to be comfortable with that level of instability. Rigidity is an element of systemic dysfunction. We know politically when systems get too rigid it becomes too fascistic, too focused around conformity and order that you get massive breakdown and violations.

So chaos is a natural part of life unpredictability. Its a key theme in

systems theory and yet right there at the edge of chaos we can build and engage in new forms of creativity and life enhancing systemic development.

Good one that, I really like it and number nine is all living systems exist in

a single field where subtle influences can have large repercussions. Quantum physics suggests that even the so called objective observer is an engaged participant and the rule therefore wherever you find yourself in any systems remember that you are a player and I love the in Trevors meditation this evening you know, that question who am I to come out to play. How do you allow yourself to enter into the field of play? And knowing that youre a player doesnt require you to get ego involved, doesnt require you to puff yourself up. It actually requires you to be yourselves you know, again beautifully expressed in the meditation

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tonight. In being yourself, youre an invaluable node of influence in any system of interconnection.

Its really that sense of coming to a new awareness of who you are, your

own essential quality, what you have to contribute and dynamically interacting with other nodes, other players in the system to create that fluidity, that movement thats so essential. And Ill finish here with number ten, the parts of a living system share a common purpose. That is what defines a system, parts operating with a common purpose. Purpose drives the energy of a system to achieve its goals therefore constantly reexamine our goals and purposes for alignment with current needs and reality. So its that sense of we think of you know, nonlinear and living systems as dynamic as in movement and that you know, we have to adapt to that movement with the sense of purposefulness that is being revealed by the possibilities of the moment not by the rules of the past, not by conditioned behavior not by assigned roles and conformity. But that sense of purpose it aligns with what is emerging, what is emerging for the best that will give us deepest alignment with our own true values and weariness. Very exciting stuff I think systems thinking when we apply it to peacebuilding and to the total creation of evolutionary process.

So with that Philip lets hear it for any community voices to share with us

too. Philip: Okay, James sure thing. And just to let you know that Riane is with us so

you can introduce her after the community sharing. So if anyone is on the phone who would like to share, just please press 1 and then if youre on the webcast, please go ahead and type in your sharing and I can read it from there. We have a thank you from Judith Trevor for what a wonderful meditation Trevor thank you. So thats coming from Judith in Connecticut. Lets see. We do have oh [name withheld] here is James, excellent. [Name withheld], please go ahead.

Participant: Hi. Hi Philip, Hi James. James: Hi. Participant: Nice to be here of yeah if possible I would like to thank Philip and James

and the whole Shift Network family for allowing me to retake this course. It is my pleasure to be here again and then also along with nine of my friends to participate in these calls and Im giving the scholarship for them and for me too as well. So I would like to share something that this course impacted me and how it is inspiring me to live my life. Some of you have heard about my stories before and then well I grew up in a

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refugee camp in Nepal since I was three years old. I spent 20 years of my life in a refugee camp and during my childhood and also my whole teenage years, you know, I spent my life as a victim with the cycle of it and then I kind of went over this dual attitude of this good and bad victim and victimizer and this victim you know, as a victim we supply the victimizer with violence and we are this victimizer and you know, bring peace. So thats how I grew up.

[0:20:30] And its really kind of life transforming to be in this Ambassador Training

that its really teaching me the new definition of the relationship between victim and victimizer that its not about good and bad. Its not about whos right and whos wrong. Its about finding common ground and its about you know, of course cultivating peace to myself and not letting that suppressed emotion that the wounding to you know, kind of wound others and which is what I see I think happening in this world. So the Peace Ambassador Training is really, really transforming my life to live a meaningful life even though I had that one of the worst rides in my life. So I would like to thank James, Philip and the whole Shift Network for this wonderful course.

I would also like to say that since this, you know sense of victimhood,

victimhood is like very, very you know, its everywhere that you know, the number of refugees are like increasing day by day. So and the world, the personal culture to react with this feeling of victimhood and react with this victimizer is through violence and hatred and rage. So I think, this Peace Ambassador Training should reach out to the refuges or people like refuges who feel very vulnerable and very helpless and hopeless so that they can be empowered and they can find the creative way to react to the victimizers and the perpetrators. So thank you so much, thank you so much.

James: Thank you [name withheld] and people should be aware of your websites

from Revenge Direct and from Revenge to Realization as wonderful blogs. The last one you wrote an International Refugee Day about the crisis, the high number of Bhutanese refugees who are committing suicide, one of the highest suicide rates in the world. And that you are in dialogue with the government of Bhutan and the Head of the Office of Gross National Happiness about the unhappiness and the true injustice against the refugees of which you are a part. So I think well give people the link in the follow up to the class so that they can go to your website. But thanks again for what youre doing.

Participant: Thank you so much.

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Philip: Yeah. I want to echo that [name withheld]. Thank you, thank you for who you are and what youre doing. Its a real delight to have you in here.

James: So we should probably -- Philip: James? Yeah we have another hand up. We could take one more? James: One more and then well go to Riane. Philip: Okay. [Name withheld], please go ahead. Participant: Hi everybody. I just wanted to thank [name withheld] for his story and it

brought up for me the powerful lesson we had on the different types of listening that James gave to us. I think that for me thats been one of the most transformative parts of the course just in where Im at. I think that the broader implications to I see a great need for more coaching on the different types of listening so people can really tap in and become aware at that level and in return be heard so that creative flow and that creative expression can that theres a confidence that alongside the coaching and different types of listening that those creative expressions of people who are refugees and other circumstances that that is really experienced to the fullest spectrum that it can be. So thanks [name withheld] for the sharing and I look forward to seeing your website.

[0:25:32] James: Thank you [name withheld] and as you know I am passionate about

listening and the level of the listening and how proactive listening is. People think of it as passive but receptivity is not passivity. Its the defining difference. As receptivity opens up the field and then the deeper we open up the field, the more we can really engage in transformation together. Thank you. Well its a great pleasure to have back with us this evening Riane Eisler whos been a hero of mine for a long time and she is to many of us who is known for her bestseller The Chalice and the Blade which is formative for women and men across the world. Its translated into over 25 foreign editions as well as books like Sacred Treasure, The Power of Partnership and Tomorrows Children. Her newest book, The Real Wealth of Nations hailed by Archbishop Desmond Tutu is a template for the better world weve been so urgently seeking. By our beloved Gloria Steinhem as revolutionary proposes a new approach to economics that gives visibility and value to the most essential human work, the work of caring for people and for our natural environment. Then we would add the work of peacemaking and peacebuilding is certainly a part of that.

She has keynoted conferences worldwide and with venues including the

United Nations as the German parliament and Vaslav Havel has invited

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her to speak when he was President of the Czech Republic. What an honor. Id love to have been the fly on that wall, Riane Eisler and Vaslav Havel. Dr. Eisler is the leader for peace, environmental sustainability, economic equity and human rights pioneering the extension of human rights protection to womens rights and childrens rights. As a Nobel Laureate Betty Williams another great soul on the planet, she cofounded the Spiritual Alliance to stop intimate violence. Shes the president of the Center Of Partnership Studies, has received so many honors including an honorary PhD. Alice Walker, Alice Paul sorry, ERA Education Award and the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation Distinguished Peace Leadership Award. Its the award winning book that shes in that wonderful book The Great Peacemakers as one of the 20 leaders for world peace including Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa and Martin Luther King.

The thing that you discover with Riane is that shes the embodiment of

the message. Sometimes messengers can get ahead of their message but youll see this evening she is her message in a very profound and beautiful way so welcome back Riane.

Riane: Well its a pleasure to be with you and I am so glad that I happen to look

at my email and I saw that there had been a change of time. But you know it gave me the opportunity, which I love of listening not only to you James but also to some of the participants. So thank you and thank you for that lovely introduction.

James: Welcome. So just Riane: Hello? James: So the floor is yours now. Riane: Oh well, thank you. Well I am so happy to be with all of you and to have

had as I said the opportunity to hear some of the comments. I guess a good way to start and I would like to have a chance to also talk with you not just to you is to tell you a little about myself from a personal standpoint. Because Im very passionately committed to this work. Robin spoke about being a refugee, well when I was a very small child, I too was a refuge as my parents and I had to flee for our lives from there to Europe. And from one day to the next, really my whole world went asunder. You know my parents and I became hunted with license to kill.

[0:30:39] So that experience also we were fortunate enough to be able to find

refuge in Cuba but of course the Nazis confiscated, thats an official word for armed robbery everything that my parents had. So we had no money.

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I grew up in the industrial slums of Havana and there I experienced well the trauma of poverty. But you know, it was really interesting in this sense because one thing that these experiences ignited in me is this passion, the passion that we share James, Philip, all of you here or you wouldnt be on this program to do what we can so that this chronic injustice, violence, persecution of people that so many people think well thats just the way things are that we can build a world where we can say yes thats the way things once were. That experience is what eventually after many other experiences inspired my work beginning really with my research. I want to tell you just a little about that because what Ive done in my research and I think thats why my work has attracted attention as James said and has inspired and empowered people is well it goes you know, theres this expression that we hear so much about today thinking outside the box. Well what Im going to invite you actually is to do just that. To join me in thinking outside the box of conventional social categories like right/left, religious/secular, eastern/western, northern, southern, religious or secular, etc. Why? Because if you really look at societies and all these categories, societies in every one of them have been oppressive, violent, have I mean completely thrashed our environment, etc. So the question, if were going to answer this question of how can we really build what my work is about cultures of peace. So that peace is not just an interval between wars which is the way that weve learned to think of it unfortunately.

We really have to go deeper and thats what I did in my research. I looked

at what would be the core components of a society that supports rather than inhibits our enormous human capacities for caring, for empathy, for sensitivity rather than because unfortunately we also have those capacities for insensitivity, cruelty, destructiveness, violence. And what I came up with as Ive said transcends these categories, I identified and now a lot of other people are identifying two core configurations of what there were no names for it. I called one the domination system and the other one the partnership system.

By the way, this fall, hosted by the University of Minnesota, we are

launching the Interdisciplinary Journal of Partnership Studies which will be the first academic journal. I really want you to tell your friends in academia about it but also practitioners because we want this journal to be not only for understanding theory, and we have to understand theory because theory is what guides behavior. Im going to be very nonlinear with you because I really want to get leave sometime so that we can actually talk with one another. You know the old theories that we have are very interesting. They give very you know, what about society, you know, sociology, anthropology, political science etc. to really look at

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them. Theyre very curious. In fact, I think generations from now people will look at them and say wow, they left out this huge swathe of human relation. Not only a huge swath but they didnt pay attention as this research is not a disciplinary cross cultural and historical research out of which the theory of cultural transformation and the partnership and domination system has been to the cultural construction of the foundational human relations. What do I mean by that? I mean the relations without which none of us would be here. The relations that are between adults and children and between the two halves humanity: women and men. Why is this so important? Well think about it for a minute. Where do children we know that the brain develops in interaction with its environment right?

Well before our brains are fully formed, these two relationships what

they experience or observe in these relations are really what children internalize and in the development of their brains. But they begin to think of that as normal, inevitable, moral and we have for much of recorded history internalized the idea that relations of top down rankings of violence being used as a means of imposing ones will on others be it violence against children, violence against women. That thats okay. That thats normal. Thats even moral right?

So as long as we dont pay attention to those relations, were not going to

have the foundations for cultures of peace. and domination systems if you think for example today as so called religious fundamentalists why do you think that for them as it was for Hitler by the way, it wasnt this Khomeini or the Taliban but for Hitler and for Stalin to as a matter of fact, top priority is getting women back into their traditional place in a traditional family and those are code words arent they? For an authoritarian, rigidly male dominated highly punitive family where children learn early on as I said even on the level of brain circuits that its normal to have, to equate difference, right beginning with the fundamental difference between male and female with either dominating or being dominated with either being served or serving yes with either superiority or inferiority. That then can get generalized as it does to all differences be they differences of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation. Weve seen those correlation because were still looking through these old lenses of right versus left, religious versus secular, eastern versus western, northern versus southern. This has been invisible. So our job really if we are to be leaders in building cultures of peace whereas Ive said peace is not just an interval between wars where violence beginning with violence in those formative relations in families is no longer considered normal, moral. Weve got to pay attention to this.

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This is I think what the main contribution of my work is. Im just going to give you a little thumbnail about my books so that and also about some of the projects Im working on and then I want to spend some time talking with you. But the first book as James said coming out of this research was The Chalice and the Blade. The subtitle is Our History, Our Future and its a rereading of history which shows something about which there is more and more evidence which is that the original direction in the mainstream of our cultural evolution starting with foraging societies and then going to the first agrarian societies culminating in society such as Minoan Crete but more in a partnership direction of a more egalitarian social structure of yes gender partnership, of the elevation of so-called feminine values whether in women or in men such as caring, empathy, nonviolence to social governance.

[0:40:35] Violence isnt so needed because there is some violence of course but we

humans lose it sometimes but its not built into the social structure, into the social fabric and that that the original direction of our cultural evolution. Its very exciting because for example, Ill give you one example of new findings. I mean the Chalice and the Blade, Sacred Pleasure really gives you that history, that hidden history and thats why you know, so many people have written that these books have completely changed their lives. But because we live by stories and if the story is well there never was then the invitation is there never can be right, something better than domination system.

But one of the most fascinating recent findings verifying this aside from

lots of archeological and mystical evidence that youll find in these books, a scholar looked at those handprints, you know, that you see in the European caves and of course were always told that it was men who did all the arts. You know, women are always invisible right in these accounts. Well he looked at the hand structure and from what we know today, there are women and men have a different finger structure and lo and behold the majority of them were female hands. So women were there number one, which they had to be right or we wouldnt be there. We wouldnt be here. But number two, women were actually some of the artists in these caves. So yes its not that women are only passive and men are only active and men are creative and women arent. Of course women create life right out of our bodies but we really need to have a whole retelling of our history.

Sacred Pleasure by the way looks at sexuality and spirituality through

these two lenses, looking at for example the Sacred Marriage throughout prehistory and even history like in the hymns of Inana and so on. But very quickly to go to my latest book that I wrote solo because I also have co-

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written books. In fact I just cowrote one. Well why dont you all go to my website which is RianeEisler.com and its RianeEisler.com. Youll see my latest book is The Real Wealth of Nations as James said. There its part of the movement in my work from analysis and from explaining and from understanding which we need to. We need different stories. We live by stories to action. That book deals with how can we build what I call a caring economy? I wont tell you that much about it because you can find out about it from the book. You can go to a website CaringEconomy.org.

We have wonderful online webinars. In fact we have one starting on July

1st for young people. We did a pilot on that last year with high school students and at the American high school which is a very multicultural school, a lot of immigrant children, etc. They loved it not only that they loved it but they formed a Caring Economy Club in their high school. We have to really show children that there is a partnership alternative because so much of what theyre still taught not only in the mass media but in their schools you know, like history its all about who won and who lost in battles right for control, for domination right? Well theres much more to history than that, isnt there? So we have that course, that webinar starting in July 1st and there is still some spaces and then on July 9th we have a free starter course. We do have some scholarships by the way for the young peoples webinar at CaringEconomy.org. On July 9th as you will see we have a free start course that I invite all of you to attend.

[0:45:11] But basically and this takes me back to Bhutan you know, Robin spoke

about that, these Gross National Happiness Index that is a country where there is much unhappiness which is kind of ironic, isnt it? But we are working on a very different set of economic indicators that are very, very needed, what we call Social Wealth Economic Indicators that really show of the enormous value. Well they show what the real wealth of nations shows that the real wealth of a nation isnt just financial. I mean we saw that with the melting into thin air of all of those you know, credit swaps, etc. We see it every day with the stock market piece going up and down.

The real wealth of a nation consist of the contributions of people and of

nature so we need what we have not had, economic measurements, economic practices, economic policies that give visibility and value to the most important human work, the work of caring for people starting in early childhood and the work of caring for our natural environment, our Mother Earth. In my book on education, Tomorrows Children Ive proposed that caring for life, for self, for others, for nature should be part of the curriculum from preschool to graduate school. So yes, we are to build cultures of peace. If we are to really change what is going on in our world, we have to pay attention to economics and to the fact that

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worldwide the mass of the poor and the poorest of the poor in our world are women and children. The major reason for that poverty is that the work of care that women still disproportionately perform is so low paid in the market. In our nation in contrast to say Nordic nations like Sweden, Finland, and Norway and most west European nations, in our nation we dont have any support like caregiver tax credits, like paid parental leave, etc. for people who do the work of care at home. So according to the US census bureau, in the United States women over the age of 65 are twice as likely to be poor as men of the same age. It isnt not only job discrimination, it is because most of these women are or were either full or part time caregivers and poverty is there reward and we cant have this continue. We need to give value to care for children if were to have that high quality human capital that economists tell us is essential for the postindustrial knowledge age if we have to have elder care. I mean we have to really stand reality right side up right? And give value to what we know is most valuable.

That really is part of building the foundation for a more peaceful and a

more caring world. So Im going to stop now. Ive shared a lot with you but Id like to talk with James and with you. So I very deliberately left us some minutes to do that.

James: Wonderful. Thank you Riane really powerful, powerful work youre doing

in the world. You know, Ive been thinking about Marianne Williamson and her run for Congress and they just had the primary there in California a couple of weeks and she didnt quite make it. But she really started to define how you can run without getting embroiled in big money, how you can define really the value system that is not really getting through in a polarized kind of political environment. Shes also founded an organization called Sister Giant to bring more women into the political sphere. What do you feel is the role of women and the larger feminization of politics or partnership model as you refer to it?

Riana: Well I think first of all we cant really talk of representative democracy

with a straight face as long as in our nation women are such a small percentage of the representatives. You know, were half the population actually a little bit more than that but then women dont necessarily really support caring policies. Look at Sarah Palin for example. So we have to be careful about which women because there are some women Sarah Palin, Maggie Thatcher did before her that have to they make it to the top of domination hierarchies by showing or trying to show every inch of the way that theyre not soft or feminine right? Theyre hunters, theyre you know, I mean like Palin with her guns and all of that.

[0:50:54]

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So we definitely have to have more women elected but not only elected, we need more women in corporate decision making because a business is a very, very major force. You know I meet people from the business community and I dont think in this sort of us against them mentality because there are within these corporations people who really want to be partners in building a more caring economy and more caring world but they dont have the tools. This is one of the reasons that these social wealth economic indicators that were working on are so vital. Because if we dont measure the importance for example, there are studies showing that the work of care performed in homes surveys actually in Austria and surveys for example showed that if that work which is still primarily performed by women although more and more men are doing it. The more value its given, the more men will do it.

But that if it were counted it would be 50% of the reported on national

GDP. I mean thats huge. But as long as its invisible we will not see investment in our caring policies, in paid parental lead. I mean we cant seriously talk about balancing employment and family if we dont have those policies. So I think that yes theres a lot to do but you know, this evolution in consciousness from my perspective is to a very large extent the consciousness that there is a viable partnership alternative, but to build it we have to pay attention to these foundational relations, how theyre constructed parent child; gender relations so that we have the foundation. My work is really very ambitious as you can see. I mean but you know, as you know James and as so many on this call know, none of us can do everything but together we can really be conscious agents in cultural transformation.

James: Uh-hum. Riane: From domination to partnership James: Indeed. Beautifully said. You know, I recently posted on my Facebook

page a piece by Melinda Gates, The Gates Foundation, its very interesting piece. What she was articulating was the research and the argument that it goes you know, its a response to people to say look weve got too many people on the planet and dont spend all this energy on child welfare and health and you know, we need less people and therefore you know, all these efforts to just sustaining more growth. What she does of course is articulate the research and the perspective that when you educate, when you care, when you give health, when you give economic support you change the whole framework of population density and so forth. I wonder if youd like to talk about that.

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Riane: Well Ive written a great deal about that. Ive written a great deal. As you mentioned I wrote the first article as a matter of fact for the Human Rights Quarterly on what has since become known as Womens Rights as Human Rights. Of course population density is a function of domination systems. If women are only viewed as male controlled technologies of reproduction for mens sons youll get what youve got. And its not coincidental that the most densely populated and the poorest regions in our world unfortunately are still very male dominated.

[0:55:09] As I said a core component of the domination system that coincidentally

theyre also most I mean you see the correlation, the authoritarian regime in the state and in the family, the male dominance, the violence right. So if were serious about having a more sustainable planet and we do have to do something about population but the whole notion you know, in the domination system what controlled population was famine and war right, and disease, etc. Well the only way to really change that is to raise the status of women not only access to family planning for women and men but life options for women that both support the work of care and attracts more men to do it in families but also enables women to develop their capacities of participating in the market economy.

So its doable. All thats required is the consciousness that thats the

solution and the will to implement it. That means unfortunately that we really have to deal with a lot of resistance. I mean population, Im in the film called Mother Caring for Seven Billion and its one of the few films that counters this whole notion that somehow population planning is a western imperialist genocidal plot against third, you know, I mean it used to be called third word against the south. Well that was propagated by the Vatican in conjunction with some very regressive Moslem nations. You know what a lot of so called liberals bought it and so the struggle is really within even the liberal community. It isnt you know, there are people who consider themselves conservatives will really do support womens dignity and rights. Thats why its so important that we start thinking in different ways that transcend the old categories.

James: Indeed, indeed. You know what I love about your work is that it takes us

to the core issues and it takes us to the home and the heart to you know, I say sometimes youve just written a book which will be coming out in December called The Conscious Activist where activism meets mysticism. But part of it is about domestic activism and you know, theres so much --

Riane: Great. Im so glad.

June 25, 2014 | p. 16

James: So much evolving there. You know, I described in one part of the book the very painful separation in divorce process as my wife came to with three teenage sons. Yet how transformative our process was for everyone involved because what we decided was we said to the boys you know, this will be your house and now a whole role constellation will change and your parents are going to rotate around you. So your mother will be here after a week and then your father will be here after a week and you wont move around. Well what it did was it dynamically changed everyones kind of roleplaying if you like the children participated in really facilitating the process as nucleus of the new organism. I just think there are so many things happening on the domestic front that are changing the world and doing that cultural transformation that he talked about. Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about what you see on the domestic front.

Riane: Well I think that you were talking earlier about the whole systems

approach and it is a little bizarre of just sort of separate whats happening in the so-called public sphere of politics, economics from what happens in the so called private sphere of family and other intimate relations. My books I mean starting with The Chalice and the Blade, Sacred Pleasure you know, going on to oh the Power of Partnership which is really kind of a how to book they all show this. But we havent been educated to think that way. Why? Because these so called domestic sphere was supposed to be the only sphere by women and children where you know, were I mean they werent supposed to be on the public sphere. That was supposed to be just the mens world.

[1:00:20] As I said that ranking of the male half of humanity over the female half is

a cornerstone of domination systems and thats why in my work I just did an article for Cosmos for example where I talk about four cornerstones for cultural transformation. One of them is childhood relations. The other is gender relations. The third is economic relations and the fourth yes, its stories. Its spirituality. Its morality. Theyre all interconnected and politics really is based on those and is engaged in every one of those. You cant separate politics which is about power relations. I do make a distinction in my work which I really want to share. You know, we hear so much about hierarchy is bad and indeed in The Chalice and the Blade, I kind of fell into that a little bit by using the term hierarchical to describe the domination system. But in Sacred Pleasure already I started to see that of course we need hierarchies. You know, we need parents, we need teachers, we need managers, we need leaders. So I make a distinction between what I call hierarchies of domination. We all know those, right? You know, you better obey or else theres going to be a lot of pain. You know, you lose your job, you get hit, you get as a child or you get even

June 25, 2014 | p. 17

killed you know, etc. Theres also a hierarchy of actualization and yes again I have to coin new words where the power is more the power of the chalice. Right? The power of, you know, the title of The Chalice and the Blade, the blade symbolizes the power to control, to dominate, to take life right? But theres another kind of power is the power of the chalice. Its the power to give life, to nurture life and to illuminate life and to empower oneself and others.

So we really have to do a lot of rethinking dont we of conventional ways

that weve been taught to look at the world. James: Indeed and I want to ask Philip to jump in now maybe he has a question

and then well open it to our class. But Ill just end on that sense of you know, the transformation of our attitudes towards children is development of our perceptional and emotional intelligence. Change authoritarianism in the home is I think really going to affect societal transition in a big way.

Riane: And its foundational. If we dont address that its like building a house on

sand. James: Uh-hum. Philip? Philip: All right. James and Riane thank you so much. If anyones on the phone

and would like to ask a question please hit 1 and then if youre on the webcast, please go ahead and type in your question. I can reach them there. Riane, as youre talking, Im also just thinking about wondering how youre handling the fact that theres such diversity in the world. Im thinking about places where I lived in Sierra Leone subsistence farmers and so forth and then in the US you know, just the vast differences. So when youre looking at these trends that youre seeing, how do you take into account your systems thinking when theres such diversity and globalization taking place at the same time?

Riane: Well if you really use the lenses of the partnership and domination

system, youll see actually that underlying all of these differences is what I call the partnership domination continuum. That certainly there are many different customs but and many different laws and many different traditions but if you look at them they either fall into the domination or the partnership side. So this is a way of cutting through a lot of this. Its a way of you know, one of the things that I think that we have to contend with today is that progressives has more or less thrown out the idea of morality of standards.

[1:05:08]

June 25, 2014 | p. 18

You know, everything is supposed to be relative and youre not supposed to ever judge anything. Well Im sorry but you know, there are some things, I mean if you touch me, if you use a knife and cut me I hurt and thats not relative. That just is. If Im touched in a caring way that makes me feel good rather than causing me pain or even death. So we have to have standards and this calls for relativism really is very regressive. Even though again its embraced by people who so often think of themselves as liberals.

Its a very poor standard actually. It is a standard of course but you know,

the way it came about of course is that so much of the old morality was really designed to maintain rankings of domination right? So there was a double standard not just the sexual double standard of course but the double standard for those in control right and those who are not in control. So what Im trying to say is yes its a very diverse world but if we then start looking at the diversity from the perspective of these two configurations we can then decide what are the traditions that we want to strengthen and build upon and what are the traditions that we want to show what they really are and leave behind.

James: Right. Philip: Once you do that, then it isnt quite such a jumble. James: Beautiful. Thank you, Riane. I think we have some questions here. [name

withheld] you have your hand up. [Name withheld]? Participant: Yeah. Thank you and Riane its so great to hear from you. Ive tuned into

one or two of the Caring Economy call and I also look forward to hearing you speak on July 7th for Lauren Olivers beloved community teleconference. She does organization circles work and I think a lot of our circles work hearing you speak about building cultures of peace. I studied with Warren for almost two years and I just see it as a sort of total expression of more partnership cultural systems where people have to be in face to face circle not necessarily with an agenda except to share life together.

And I wanted to mention one other thought while you were speaking. I

see your work as well somewhere along the line of like environmental science curriculum. I went to the University of Montana. I came across this concept that I think is well known but maybe its not and its called the triple bottom line. We were talking about policy, well if your social wealth economic indicators Im so looking forward to reading about them because I know the triple bottom line is a model for businesses and I just,

June 25, 2014 | p. 19

I dont know how to clear the status quo of standards are for the social component of that whole theory which is now actually being implemented by major corporations. I think it would be so beneficial to have your work as a very like cornerstone for that movement.

Riane: Absolutely and I thank you so much for bringing up all of these things

[name withheld]. I want to start with the last thing you said which is the triple bottom line of course is what we need to aim for. As I note in The Real Wealth of Nations corporate, corporations can actually we can have laws that require corporations to do that. We just dont happen to have them at this point. Okay?

Participant: Um hum Riane: But we can. But in order for us to get those kinds of policies and also to

encourage more corporations on their own to really move in that direction, we have to show them that there is not only a human and social justice benefit but an economic benefit. This is one of the distinguishing things about the Social Wealth Economic Indicators.

[1:10:20] They show the return on investment from investing in early childhood

education, from investing in supporting care work. Companies for example that have paid parental leave, that have flex time you know, that help with childcare they have a higher return to investors. Why? Well there are many reasons but the basic one is that when people feel that they and their families are cared for, theyre going to work very hard to make that company successful, right? Because they want that job. So what were doing is it is combining a social justice argument with an economic benefits argument. We will be launching the social wealth economic indicators this fall with a website, with an online launch, with a report. If any of you were looking for some corporate sponsors, progressive corporations that are interested, were looking also for we have the coalition of organization as part of our caring economy campaign. We want partners to be you know, from our coalition but also organizations that havent yet joined the coalition to really be part of this because the only way that this is going to move forward is if we have both grassroots and business support.

Politically we can only move forward now in the United States on a

county or state level and we are moving forward. We have a handbook that was commissioned by a supervisor who actually took the caring economy webinar on how do you apply a social wealth economic indicator to both guide and evaluate county policy. So yes it all ties

June 25, 2014 | p. 20

together. Again take a look at CaringEconomy.org. Also take a look at my own website RianeEisler.com.

Participant: Thank you. Philip: Thank you. Thank you [name withheld]. Participant: Yes. Philip: Riane we have a comment here from [name withheld] in Cameron. She

says when I first learned accounting I was very struck by the fact that machines showed up as both assets and liabilities. The money borrowed to buy them but people always showed up on financial statements as liabilities, wages, benefits, etc. I thought no wonder there is no more loyalty to people in the workplace because they are not valued. Would you like to comment about this Riane?

Riane: Oh my god I love this comment and thats the whole point. In the Real

Wealth of Nations Ive proposed that investment in caring for people should be amortized as an investment not just as an expense. Because I mean we can do that for the long, for the life of a machine. We should do it for the working life of an individual right? So bless you and [name withheld] youre so and Cameron youre so on the same wavelength. I really invite you to be part of the Caring Economy campaign. So come and join us.

James: Wonderful. Thanks Riane and [name withheld] thank you so much for

that comment. We have a comment here from a friend [name withheld] who led the meditation. You may want to comment on it. He says a contribution of people and nature to be part of the curriculum what a wonderful concept. But together we can make it more than a concept. We are worthy of nothing less. Would you like to comment?

Riane: Well yes and its only going to happen if we make it happen and by we, I

mean you and your colleagues and your friends and your circle. I mean thats what the Caring Economy campaign in a way is about. Its to really change the whole way that we think. Its a different worldview. Its a different conceptual framework thats what the partnership and domination continuum is about.

[1:15:06] As long as were stuck in the old categories like economically socialism

and capitalism I mean first of all socialist, you know, the two large scale applications of socialism were a disaster, environmentally not just speak of inhuman terms. Im talking about Soviet Union and China but even the

June 25, 2014 | p. 21

theory is crazy. I mean for both a mark and for smith the work of caring for people in households was just reproductive work rather than productive work, got to get rid of that. I wrote an article you can find that on my websites. Its an article I wrote for Economics of this Caring Matters, I wrote it for Challenge which is a journal.

But see its up to us to change the conversation and a lot of people are

stuck in the old conversation. So weve got to keep replicating new ideas, replicate new ideas thats how they become part of the mainstream and thats the only way that you really have cultural transformation, replicate.

Philip: Okay. Wonderful. Thank you Riane and if anyone on the phone would like

to ask a question, please hit 1 and then if youre on the webcast please go ahead and type in your comments, also. And --

James: I think if weve heard from the class, we wrote if Riane our deepest

appreciation for her luminous work and helping us all in the deep south actualization process that is also a cultural and systemic actualization process.

Riane: Absolutely. Its you have to have the self but just working on the self, this

is where my book the Power of Partnership is so useful. It really connects the dots that are trying to heal ourselves in the domination system is like trying to go up on a down elevator you know. So yes you have to work on yourself but then use that energy that you release that actualizing to change thats around the context.

James: Well thanks again Riane and we look forward to future connecting. Riane: Well its always a pleasure to be with you and Im so glad I got to listen to

part of the introduction. That was a gift. Thank you and thank you all and I look forward to meeting some of you or seeing some of you as we say online in our webinars. So thank you and bless you and I guess Ill just sign off then.

James: Thank you. Thank you. Riane: Thank you my dear. Philip: Thank you Riane. Riane: Bye-bye.

June 25, 2014 | p. 22

James: Bye. So Philip? Philip: Yes. Yes. James: So now weve completed the Pillar on Systems Thinking and

Peacebuilding and were moving towards that last pillar on activation and we have some wonderful presentations in store for our class. I would just as you will begin to as we will begin to wrap up that final pillar. And as we begin to wrap up this fourth pillar to really try to do your synthesis work. If you could maybe write a few paragraphs that you can share on the Facebook page or on some of you blog, on your blogs, or share with others in some other way what is the nugget that you take from listening to Don Beck and David Korten and Riane Eisler and the expression of the 12 simple rules for systems thinking Ive articulated from Cultivating Peace? What is the core and really what does this mean for you as an actor? How is doing a four-week session on systems thinking really given you direction in terms of your own action? Lots to think about and to synthesize there but I think its been a very rich pillar and I think with that Philip, I would hand it back to you.

[1:20:01] Philip: All right. James, wonderful. Thank you so much, very, very rich and well

include the website into the email and also post on the Facebook and just remind you that next week, well be looking at the 21st Century Peace Ambassador as Evolutionary Leader and also the Summer of Peace and well have some special guests joining us for that one.

And so James have a wonderful rest of your evening there in Crestone

and for people who would like to join the breakout groups if youre on the phone, please just stay on the line. If youre not joining the breakout group on the phone, please go ahead and hang up and have a peaceful rest of your morning, evening, afternoon or night and if youre online and would like to join please call in on the email that was sent to you with the phone number or if you like you can call this general pin number country code 1-310-409-2027, 1-310-409-2027. The pin number is 563009, 563009. And Ill just give it a second here for people to sort themselves out and then well get started. So one minute. All right my friends, so were in we have the small groups together and again just

[1:21:43] End of Audio 2014 The Shift Network. All rights reserved.