Physical Abuse; Modifications to the Forensic InterviewLaura Gapske

Forensic Program Coordinator, Interviewer, & Trainer

What are the Challenges?

Additional considerations pertaining to the lack of research…

Important Factors:• It is estimated that law enforcement agencies in the United States

investigate more than 3.3 million cases of child maltreatment each year and that as many as 2,000 children die as a result of this maltreatment (OJJDP, 2014)

• Children who were exposed to even one type of violence, both within the past year and over their lifetimes, were at far greater risk of experiencing other types of violence. For example, a child who was physically assaulted in the past year would be five times as likely also to have been sexually victimized and more than four times as likely also to have been maltreated during that period (Finkelhor, D., Turner, H. Ormrod, R. & Hamby, S.L., 2011)

Recognizing the RiskThere is increasing morbidity and mortality with recurrent child physical abuse cases…Prospective population-based study of mortality following a nonfatal allegation of maltreatment involved over 4 million children child abuse cases (Putnam-Hornstien study, 2011) findings: Child with Prior Allegation of Maltreatment:• Died from intentional injuries at a rate that was 5.9 x greater than

unreported children• Died from unintentional injuries at twice the rate of unreported

children

How can we do our best to assess for safety in a Forensic Interview?

The Minnesota Child Mortality Review Panel identified common risk factors in the homicide/near fatal inflicted injury cases:• Child under age 3 or has special needs

• Unrelated adult residing in the victim’s household

• Unemployment of one or more adult household members

• Male household member providing child care when mother is not home

• Previous involvement by the parent and/or other adult in the household with child protection

• Frequent moves between counties and/or states

• Parent or caretaker has history of substance abuse

• Parent or caretaker has history of violence

• Parent or caretaker has mental health issues

Considerations Prior to Interview…

Creating a Safety…• Screening for non-offending caregivers Who is bringing the child? Reach out to supportive caretakers!

• Interviewing other possible witnesses and siblings What are the sibling dynamics? Collusion?

• Team Culture, Beliefs, and Training Policies and procedures for handling physical abuse cases and medical exams Physical abuse social norms Minimization and/or frustrations Who will conduct the interview? Interview environment: Inclusive of diversity and community partners

MN Governor’s Task Force on the Protection of Children Final Report and Recommendations; related to physical abuse interviews:• Decisions made that involved the best practice thinking and judgement

of a variety of professionals and cross-disciplines serves to improve the overall quality and consistency of decision making

• Use of prior screened out reports when considering a new referral should be permitted and encouraged

• Send all reports of maltreatment to LE, regardless of whether the report is screened in or screened out

Continued. • Amending Substantial Child Endangerment to differentiate between

“reasonable and moderate physical discipline of a child administered by a parent or legal guardian which does not result in an injury” and “physical injury inflicted by a person responsible for the child’s care other than by accidental means”

• Amend the statutory definition of “physical abuse” to delete the language “that are done in anger or without regard to the safety of the child” instead to “Actions which are not reasonable and moderate include, but are not limited to, any of the following: 1-10” (includes throwing, kicking, burning, cutting, etc.)

Continued. • Amend the definition of “Threatened injury” to include present during

DV, etc.

• Make child safety the focus of any child protection response (no longer identify Differential Response as the preferred method)

• Interview children individually first and prior to contact with parent/legal guardian whenever possible –Implications??

Case Examples

Child 1: Witness to Physical Abuse, 6 years old, Caucasian, female

I: You told me about dad giving [brother] spankings. Do you get spankings from dad?

C: Sometimes I be bad. When I don’t be nice to [brother] because he don’t want to share the ipadwith me.

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I: Is the spank the same as [brother] or something different?

C: Something different.

I: Tell me about something different.

C: Actually, it’s the same. I don’t get spanked like spanks that happen on picture. I only get one spank.

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I: You told me about spanks from dad. Does anyone else give spanks?

C: Just my mom and dad.

I: Tell me about spanks from mom.

C: She gives normal spanks but it’s hard…like this (child demonstrates)

Child 2: Physical Abuse, 5 years old, Caucasian, male

I: Okay, so you said you pooped your pants. Tell me what happen after you pooped your pants on the couch.

C: I got spanked.

I: Tell me about getting spanked.

C: Remember, I pooped my pants.

I: Yep. Okay, you said you got spanked. Tell me what a spank is.

C: If you do something really bad, then you get spanked.

I: Okay, so tell me all about when you got spanked when you pooped your pants on the couch.

C: Well…a spank was on the bottom of my butt and I got yelled at.

I: Uh huh.

Continued. Child 2: Physical abuse, 5 years old, Caucasian, male

C: He walked over to me, then he smelled something bad.

I: Okay, so what happen next?

C: He spanked my butt.

I: Tell me more.

C: I don’t know.

I: Tell me what dad did when he gave you a spank?

C: He hit my back and pushed me against the wall.

Child 3: Physical Abuse, 6 years old, Caucasian, female I: Tell me about not okay touches.C: I forgot.I: Is it that you forgot, don’t want to talk about it, or something else? C: I forgot. I: [Child’s name], tell me why you are here today.C: I forgot.I: You forgot. Okay, you told me you went to the office this morning, tell me about that.C: Nothing.I: You said you went to the office, then what happen? C: Nothing.

Continued. Child 3: Physical Abuse, 6 years old, Caucasian, female

I: Tell me about the last time you were sad or cried.

C: I forgot.

I: Have you ever cried or been sad?

C: I cried last night.

I: Tell me why you were crying.

C: I forgot.

I: Were you sad or something different?

C: Something different.

I: Tell me about something different.

C: I forgot.

Continued. Child 3: Physical Abuse, 6 years old, Caucasian, female

I: Tell me where you were when you were crying last night.

C: At the Motel 6.

I: I’ve never been to the Motel 6. Tell me who was there.

C: My mom, brother, and dad…and dad was being mean to us.

I: Who was dad being mean to?

C: Me…and last time he hurt my head.

I: Tell me how your head got hurt.

C: By the side wall.

I: Tell me more how your head hit the side of the wall.

C: I forgot.

Continued. Child 3: Physical Abuse, 6 years old, Caucasian, female

I: Tell me what you do remember.

C: I forgot.

I: Did you tell someone about hitting your head on the wall?

C: [Nods head yes]

I: Tell me about telling someone.

C: I forgot.

I: Did it happen at the Motel 6 or something different?

C: Motel 6.

I: Let’s draw a picture because I wasn’t there when your head hit the wall.

Child 4: Physical Abuse, 7 years old, African American, male

[Reluctant to come back to interview room.]

C: I hope he doesn’t call police on him. I hope you don’t call the police on him.

I: Tell me about that.

C: He hit me. Me and my dad was playing fight. Then, he had a cord in his hand and he turned around and he whacked me on accident.

I: Oh. He whacked you on accident.

C: Yeah.

I: Okay.

C: Cuz I was being bad at school.

I: You were being bad at school.

Continued. Child 4: Physical Abuse, 7 years old, African American, male

C: Cuz I was mouthing to the teacher and not listening and I was talking to my friends on the carpet and my teacher asked me something and I didn’t listen.

I: So you didn’t listen to your teacher, and then what happen?

C: That’s all.

I: Okay. Okay, we will talk more about that.

C: There’s no more to talk about. That’s the story.

I: That’s the story. Okay. When we were talking earlier you said something about the police. Tell me about that.

C: I don’t want my daddy to get in jail cuz I love him [looks at camera]

I: Why do you think daddy would go to jail?

Continued. Child 4: Physical Abuse, 7 years old, African American, maleC: Is those cameras?I: Yeah, those are cameras.C: Is those policeman cameras?I: Those cameras record while we are talking today and we make a video for a couple reasons. One is so my team can help me do my job…C: Are police watching us?I: Yep, there are people that help keep kids safe. Do you have worries about that?C: Yeah.I: Tell me.C: I love my daddy. I don’t want him to get in jail. I hope he doesn’t and don’t call the police.

Continued. Child 4: Physical Abuse, 7 years old, African American, maleI: Okay.C: Can I go back out?I: We are gonna talk for a little bit longer so I can get to know you better. Here’s a marker, let’s write your name on the easel.--------

I: So [child’s name], my job is understand more about what happens in kids lives. When you came in here you said some things and I want to know more about that.C: I was afraid.I: You were afraid.C: Of being here. And I want to go back home with my dad and mom because my dad doesn’t beat me anymore and I want to be with my mom and dad because they eat the same thing that I like and I share with my mom and dad and they share with me.

Continued. Child 4: Physical Abuse, 7 years old, African American, male

I: [Child’s name], I see marks on your face. Tell me about them.

C: That was when he hit me with the cord.

I: Who is he?

C: My dad when we was play fighting.

I: Tell me all about when play fighting.

C: Me and my dad was playing with my brother. Then he said, “come and learn how to fight”. My dad was fighting with the bean bags and he accidently got in my way because they slided that way and he accidently hit me because he was hitting the bean bag with the cord. Then, I put some ice on my eye.

Continued. Child 4: Physical Abuse, 7 years old, African American, male

Closing Stage:

I: Last thing I ask kids is f you ever felt unsafe, who would be someone you could talk to?

C: Anybody besides a stranger.

I: Okay, let’s write down a few people.

C: I’m not afraid of you.

I: Should I put me up here?

C: Yeah. Dad, mom, brothers, teacher, and no strangers. Put that down there.

I: Okay.

Child 5: Physical Abuse, 5 years old, multi-racial, male

[Walks in and shows me marks on his arm]

I: Tell me about that.

C: My owie.

I: Tell me about your owie.

C: My daddy jumped on me. It very hurts.

I: It very hurts. Tell me about that.

C: When he get out of shower.

I: When he gets out of shower, then what happen?

C: And he was getting clothes on.

I: I see some other marks on your arm. Tell me about those.

Continued. Child 5: Physical Abuse, 5 years old, multi-racial, male

C: I got burned by a cigarette.

I: Tell me how that happen.

C: When I playing.

I: Tell me more when playing.

C: When I playing with the toys.

I: So help me understand how you get burned when playing with toys?

C: And I said, “Don’t do it again”.

I: Who did you say that to?

C: To my daddy and he still do it.

Child 6: Physical Abuse, 5 years old, Caucasian, femaleI: Neat…thanks for tell me all about that.C: Yeah but the meanest one in our house is [mom’s boyfriend’s name]I: Who is [mom’s boyfriend’s name]?C: Our mom’s boyfriend but he’s mean to her and he’s in jail.I: Tell me about that.C: One reason about that is because he’s mean to us…[lists names]I: Tell me more about when [mom’s boyfriend’s name] is mean.C: Covers up my nose and my mouth and then I can’t breathe.I: He covers your nose and mouth then you can’t breathe. Tell me more about the last time.C: In the bath.

Continued. Child 6: Physical Abuse, 5 years old, Caucasian, female

I: Tell me everything you remember about that.

C: I started crying because of something because I missed my dad and he covered my nose and my mouth.

I: Tell me how he did that.

C: His hands are really big.

I: His hands are really big, okay. Help me understand what he did.

C: [Child shows me]

I: And then what happen?

C: Then he put his other hand on the back of me and picked me up by my head.

Continued. Child 6: Physical Abuse, 5 years old, Caucasian, female

I: And then what happen?

C: I tried to get his hand off of me so I could breathe.

I: Tell me more about that.

C: I kept pulling on his fingers.

I: How did it end, [child’s name]?

C: Then he put me down when I stopped crying. Then he started washing me and then I got out to see my mom downstairs.

I: How did it make your body feel?

C: I got scared I wouldn’t be able to breathe.

Considerations Within a Physical Abuse Interview

Response to Reluctant Children• What is your presence in the interview room?

• Open versus closed environment; giving up the power in the room

• Accommodations within the interview room?

• Give children multiple opportunities to talk about the allegation

• Provide neutral reassurance or normalization to decrease the stress related to disclosing for kids

• In and Out narrative techniques with children to continue building rapport throughout the interview

Addressing the blocks with children• Be patient and do not interrupt! • Watch for reluctance from initial stages of the interview; Is a multi-session interview needed?

• Utilize supportive comments and/or validation statements earlier and more often in the interview

• Establish trust via transparency; don’t force or expect trust• Create culture of child as the expert in the room• Do not “target” alleged offenders or alienate

Modifications to the Interview• Spend time in Rapport Stage; free think possible modifications

• Awareness of differences in cultural norms; lack of trust of systematic involvement and authority

• Concrete language abilities and the challenge with “Touch” Incorporate words that include specific physical abuse actions Testifying explanation: Ruling out multiple forms of contact

• Do not give options when they really don’t have a choice; may increase anxiety/stress with some children

• Allow space for child’s questions and offer opportunities

Continued: Modifications to the Interview• Pick up on non-verbal cues and ask about noticeable body language

• Mirror the child’s demeanor and body language; never over step boundaries and allow child to be comfortable

• Ask questions without changes in tone and/or judgement • Explore inconsistent statements and conversations with other adults

• Closing Stage: be mindful when including a mandated reporter

Sample Questions within a Physical Abuse Interview• Tell me about your relationship with ________ .• Do people get in trouble/fight in your house? Tell me about that.• What happens when people get in trouble at your house?• What happens when people get mad at your house? • Who takes care of you? Tell me about that.• Tell me about rules in your home; What happens when someone breaks a rule? (Explore each member of the household to screen for targeting)

• Ask about secrets, promises, or conversations about abuse

Sample Questions within a Physical Abuse Interview• Tell me all the things used to get a (whoop’n, spank, owie, etc.)• Do you ever get (kicks, punches, spanks, etc.)? Tell me about a time. Explore other places on the body.

• Have you ever seen someone get (kicks, punches, spanks, etc.)?• Has someone told you not to talk about (kicks, punches, spanks, etc.)?

• Ask child about any visible physical evidence and/or injuries• Explore differences in discipline by other caregivers

Sample Questions within a Physical Abuse Interview• Explore last time talked to police or go to see doctor.• Does someone ever hurt a part of your body?• How did it make your body feel when you got a [child’s words]?• Were there marks/bruises at the time? Tell me about the marks/bruises.

• What do you know about drugs and alcohol? • Explore vocabulary “mean”, “bad”, or other generic descriptors.• Children’s negative feelings about a parent (must be explored within

the context of the violence that has occurred)

Questions, Comments, and/or Concerns?

“If the structure does not permit dialogue the structure must be changed”

― Paulo Freire

Email: Lgapske@firstwitness.orgwww.firstwitness.org

References:• Review of Minnesota Child Deaths and Near Fatalities Related to Child Maltreatment 2005-2009,

MN Dept. of Human Services, April 2011

• Recognizing When a Child’s Injury or Illness is Caused by Abuse, U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, July 2014

• Polyvictimization: Children’s Exposure to Multiple Types of Violence, Crime, and Abuse, U.S. Dept. Of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, David Finkelhor, Heather Turner, Sherry Hamby and Richard Ormrod, October 2011

• State of Minnesota Governor’s Task Force on the Protection of Children Final Report and Recommendations, March 2015

• Report of Maltreatment as a Risk Factor for Injury Death; A Prospective Birth Cohort Study, Emily Putnam-Hornstien, Child Maltreat August 2011 vol. 16 no. 3 163-174

• ChildFirst™ Forensic Interview Protocol

• CornerHouse Forensic Interview Protocol™

• Tom Lyon’s 10 Step Forensic Interview Protocol

• First Witness Modified RATAC© Forensic Interview Protocol