PRIME MINISTER

NORTHERN IRELAND

Mr. G e r r y F i t t , MP, c a l l e d on t h e Prime M i n i s t e r a t h i s own r e q u e s t i n the House of Commons at 1535 t h i s a f t e r n o o n t o d i s c u s s r e p o r t s of a p o s s i b l e v i s i t by the Pope t o N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d .

Mr. F i t t s a i d t h a t he had a l r e a d y d i s c u s s e d t h e m a t t e r w i t h the S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d and was i n t o t a l agreement w i t h Mr. A t k i n s ' approach. But i t had t o be r e c o g ­n i s e d t h a t t h i s would be a u n i q u e chance f o r the Roman C a t h o l i c s i n N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d t o see t h e head of t h e i r Church; and t h a t i t would be w i d e l y f e l t t h a t i f a v i s i t d i d not t a k e p l a c e i t would be the f a u l t of Mr. Ian P a i s l e y .

The Prime M i n i s t e r t o l d Mr. F i t t t h a t the B r i t i s h Government had r e c e i v e d no r e q u e s t from the V a t i c a n f o r a v i s i t by the Pope. I f a r e q u e s t were t o be r e c e i v e d f o r the Pope t o v i s i t the U n i t e d Kingdom, he would be welcome. I t would have t o be borne i n mind t h a t he would come t o the U n i t e d Kingdom as a Head of S t a t e ; and t h i s would have c e r t a i n i m p l i c a t i o n s . I f we r e c e i v e d any i n d i c a t i o n t h a t he w i s h e d t o come, we would of c o u r s e be happy to d i s c u s s a l l the arrangements f o r h i s v i s i t w i t h the V a t i c a n i n t h e u s u a l way.

Mr. F i t t a g a i n asked whether the Government had r e c e i v e d any r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s from the V a t i c a n about a v i s i t . The Prime M i n i s t e r r e p e a t e d t h a t we had not. I f we d i d r e c e i v e such r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s , t h e y would be c o n s i d e r e d f a v o u r a b l y . Mr. F i t t asked i f he c o u l d say t h i s t o h i s f r i e n d s . The Prime M i n i s t e r s a i d t h a t , so f a r as she was c o n c e r n e d , Mr. F i t t c o u l d say t h a t the B r i t i s h Government had r e c e i v e d no i n d i c a t i o n from the V a t i c a n t h a t the Pope wished t o pay us a v i s i t ; t h a t he would be a welcome v i s i t o r t o the U n i t e d Kingdom; and t h a t i f he wished t o come we would be happy t o d i s c u s s t h e arrangements w i t h the V a t i c a n i n the u s u a l way.

/At the

- 2 -

At the Prime M i n i s t e r ' s r e q u e s t , Mr. Gow and I checked t h i s f o r m u l a t i o n w i t h Mr. F i t t b e f o r e he l e f t t he Prime M i n i s t e r ' s o f f i c e .

At 1745, t h e f o l l o w i n g i t e m appeared on t h e PA t a p e s :

"Pope 'welcome' i n U l s t e r . The Pope would be v e r y welcome i f he wished t o v i s i t U l s t e r . Prime M i n i s t e r Margaret T h a t c h e r t o l d I r i s h C a t h o l i c MP Mr. G e r r y F i t t today. In a p r i v a t e m e e t i n g at W e s t m i n s t e r , Mr. F i t t , l e a d e r o f t h e m a i n l y C a t h o l i c S o c i a l D e m o c r a t i c and Labour P a r t y , Mrs. T h a t c h e r s a i d t h a t a l l n e c e s s a r y s e c u r i t y arrangements would be made. 'She s a i d she had had no word from the V a t i c a n y e t , but t h a t i f the Pope wanted t o v i s i t the UK he would be a v e r y welcome g u e s t ' , Mr. F i t t s a i d . "

At 1815, I r e c e i v e d a t e l e p h o n e c a l l from Mr. Ian P a i s l e y . Mr. P a i s l e y s a i d t h a t he was d e e p l y concerned by r e p o r t s t h a t the Prime M i n i s t e r had i s s u e d a statement t o the e f f e c t t h a t the Pope would be welcome i n N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d . T h i s seemed c o m p l e t e l y a t v a r i a n c e w i t h t h e a s s u r a n c e which he had been g i v e n by the S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d t h a t , i f t h e r e were any q u e s t i o n of a v i s i t by the Pope t o U l s t e r , the e l e c t e d r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s of the p e o p l e of U l s t e r would be heard b e f o r e d e c i s i o n s were t a k e n .

I e x p l a i n e d t o Mr. P a i s l e y t h a t the Prime M i n i s t e r had made no statement about a p o s s i b l e v i s i t by t h e Pope. Any s t a t e m e n t s emerging from the No. 10 P r e s s O f f i c e were d e s i g n e d t o c o r r e c t m i s l e a d i n g r e p o r t s w h i c h had appeared on t h e t a p e s of a c o n v e r s a t i o n between the Prime M i n i s t e r and Mr. F i t t . I r e p e a t e d t o Mr. P a i s l e y the terms of the No. 10 c o r r e c t i o n . Mr. P a i s l e y emphasised s e v e r a l t i m e s t h a t t h e s i t u a t i o n i n N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d was now e x t r e m e l y s e r i o u s as a r e s u l t of t h e s e s t a t e m e n t s and t h a t "we were s i t t i n g on a powder keg".

/ He r e p e a t e d

- 3 -

He r e p e a t e d t h a t the s t a t e m e n t s which were emerging seemed t o c o n f l i c t w i t h the a s s u r a n c e Mr. A t k i n s had g i v e n . He would l i k e a r e p e t i t i o n o f t h a t a s s u r a n c e t o be g i v e n by No. 10 and he would, i d e a l l y , l i k e t o d i s c u s s the m a t t e r w i t h the P r i m e M i n i s t e r p e r s o n a l l y . I f the e l e c t e d r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o f the p e o p l e of N o r t h e r n I r e l a n d c o u l d not be h e a r d , he, Mr. P a i s l e y , c o u l d not be h e l d r e s p o n s i b l e f o r the consequences. I f an o p p o r t u n i t y f o r a h e a r i n g were d e n i e d , he saw no use i n p o l i t i c s nor i n the b a l l o t box.

I t o l d Mr. P a i s l e y t h a t , i f Mr. A t k i n s had spoken t o him i n t h e s e terms, I was c o n f i d e n t t h a t the Prime M i n i s t e r would endorse them; but t h a t I would f i r s t w i s h t o d i s c u s s t h e m a t t e r w i t h Mr. A t k i n s . I u n d e r t o o k t o t e l e p h o n e Mr. P a i s l e y when I had done so.

I have s i n c e r e c e i v e d a d v i c e from Mr. A t k i n s ' o f f i c e t h a t Mr. A t k i n s d i d n o t , i n f a c t , g i v e Mr. P a i s l e y the a s s u r a n c e a t t r i b u t e d t o him. Mr. A t k i n s s u g g e s t s t h a t I s h o u l d t e l e p h o n e Mr. P a i s l e y , making i t c l e a r t h a t I was d o i n g so w i t h the Prime M i n i s t e r ' s a u t h o r i t y , t o r e p e a t t o him t h e c o r r e c t i v e statement put out by t h e No. 10 P r e s s O f f i c e t h i s e v e n i n g , e m p h a s i s i n g t h e words " U n i t e d Kingdom". I s h o u l d go on t o say t h a t i f a p r o p o s a l f o r a v i s i t by the Pope were t o be r e c e i v e d , the d e t a i l e d arrangements f o r such a v i s i t would be d i s c u s s e d " i n c o n s u l t a t i o n w i t h t h o s e c oncerned i n t h e UK". I s h o u l d then say t h a t t h e Government andj/Mr. A t k i n s ^ w o u l d welcome Mr. P a i s l e y ' s views en t h o mattor-.

26 J u l y 1979