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Re: 3D surface modeling of a giant

redwood trunk

by M.W.Taylor » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:10 am

Rand & Matt, Now attaching the PLY files for the

various tree I attached JPGs of earlier.

These cloud sets look much better with distance

attuation to "False" in Tools-Options and pixel size to

1 or 2. This set is not filtered yet so need to re-center

axis in Filters-Normals,Curvatures, Orientations and

then Trasform:Move,Translate, Center. Mouse click

on new axis.

With distance attentuation set to "True" the pixels

increase in size to the point of blurring.

fglen.ply Forest Glen Giant Hi Resolution Scan

198k cloud points

This one is Melkor. Note the detail of the fire scars,

nearby smaller trees and basal burl.

melkor-medium_0.ply Melkor 2nd Largest Coast

Redwood. 39,300 cubic feet trunk volume. Ht 348'

Re: 3D surface modeling of a giant

redwood trunk

by M.W.Taylor » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:37 am

I finally coded a Visual Basic spreadsheet to

calculate volume under these cloud sets. This version

seems robust for dense clouds...see attached. Press

Control-V to solve for volume with included default

cloud set for Redwood Creek Giant. I left the settings

in the finest increment mode. Be patient while

solution is found. You'll see upating after about 30

seconds.

As the cookies are extracted, you will see the

embedded chart update the new shape per height

interval and slice thickness. The inner edge of the

cookie is the upper diameter with outer edge being

the lower diameter..The upper and lower part of the

cookie are orthogonal and homothetic due to being

the same shape and parallel. This is the crux of the

theory of this volume solving method for free forms.

No radii modeled here or used for this volume

calculation. The tree trunk is looked at differently in

this method. A full write-up will be posted next

month on this new type of volume calculation,

Warning: This software is slow due to all the test

output columns. If you leave them in place you will

learn more about the program. Input columns A,B,C

must use a dense cloud set or you will get

overestimation.

For the lower cookies of Redwood Creek Giant's

lower trunk you can clearly see where a tape-wrap

would hang in space over parts of the trunk and cause

over-estimate of volume. This incremental

computerized solution captures all those nooks and

crannies that a tape-wrap or relaskop would miss.

attachment deleted and updated as free form

volume solver.xls

I was surprised at how few lines it took to do the task.

Most of the code is for other tasks. The volume

solver piece of code contains a quintuple nested "do

loop". That's a first in my limited code programming

experience. The volume solver is the last subroutine

on the list. The first macro is "deleterows" which is a

range noise filter utility. To use set xmin-xmax,ymin-

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yman,zmin-zmax and then run the macro to delete all

rows of the XYZ cloud table that have a point outside

that range. You can also draw a chart of the

points....colume A vs. B for overhead view or plot B

vs. C for side trunk view. Use mouse button to hover

over outlier point you see outside trunk until arrows

appear. Then drag the point away from the cloud

from into a far out of rage "cage" area for deletion

during the "Deleterows" subroutine. You can

manually delete these outliers from the tables, but I

find it much faster to drag the outlier points with

mouse into an "out of range cage" area then manually

find and delete.

The "addrows" subroutine extracts cookies from the

trunk form at desired height intervals. To use this

utility set the Zcookie text box to desired height and

Thickness box should also have a value. I

recommend using the preloaded default example for

the given cloud set from Redwood Creek Giant. Press

Control-C. The cookie will then be extracted and

displayed on the lower chart.

Also remember this spreadsheet from my Excel97

and only allows 65,000 columns so I am only using

about 1/3 of the available cloud points for the

Redwood Creek Giant cloud set. If you have

Excel2007 or later you can use 1 million rows so that

increases the potential # of clouds points processed

by 15x. If you have Excel2007 or later I would

recommend extracting the other 130k XYZ cloud

points from the PLY graphics file I attached. This

will make the extracted cookies 3 times denser and

hence volume calculation even better.

The "adjustxyz" macro recenters the X,Y,Z axis.

There is no input box for this. You'll need to

manually edit the Visual Basic macro and change the

X,Y and Z values from 0 to desired off-set. Then run

macro from tools menu. If cloud sets are imported

with origin not at 0,0,0 you will need to re-center

cloud set with "adjustxyz" or redefine origin in text

boxes, otherwise calculation will be 100% wrong.

The "Volume" macro is the volume solver. In a

nutshell here is how it works:

1)Extracts cookies from starting height point to

ending point from the entire cloud set, but bound by

range set in text boxes.

2) Rayangle is set and the Min and Max horizontal

distance magnitude between origin and each XYZ

point is calculated. Each Min and Mac point within

the range is accepted and stored into radmin(10000)

and radmax(10000). For default example the ray

angle is set to 1 degree so this means the first scan

ray finds all point furthest and closest to user define

origin (default 0,0,0) for each 1 degrees from 0...all

the way to 360. That would be 360 scan rays to find

points. If scan ray is 10 degrees then that wouuld be

36 rays per cookie. The finer the scan ray, the finer

the volume calculation.

3) once the rays are constructed between origin and

inside points and outside points, the software then

constructs all those ray projections into triangles with

sides S1,S2 and S3 just like in your polygon area

formula. Using the formula from your spreadsheet, I

calculate all the little sub-triangle areas per cookie.

The process can be seen in the output boxes. For a

ray angle of 1, the polygon that forms the cookie

would be partitioned into 360 small triangles. For ray

angle 10 degree the polygon would be fitted with 36

triangles. The smallest ray angle this software version

will accept is 1 degree.

Millions of processes are taking place in this code.

It's slow but it works. I coded the routines so that the

output goes into the cells for each working variable.

This is for testing to determine how well the software

is modeling the polygon. It works well for dense

clouds (hundreds-thousands or more per cookie). If

your cloud set is not dense enough the sub-areas get

choppy and volume over-estimation may occur.

Michael Taylor

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Picayune Oak, MS

by Larry Tucei » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:12 pm

NTS, Saturday I went to Picayune a small city

located in southwestern Perry Co., Ms., about 30

miles inland from the Gulf of Mexico. I found the

largest Live Oak in the city and added it to the Live

Oak listing now at 196 trees. The Picayune Oak

grows at 306 S. Magnolia St. The tree is around 150

years old and measured CBH-20’ 5”, Height-57’,

Spread-134’ x 125’. A smaller Live Oak but still a

beautiful tree. Two Live Oaks were growing at this

location this was the larger of the two. Most likely

the site of an old homestead in the 1850's- 60's.

Larry Tucei

New Member – Maria Mihok

by mdmihok » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:26 pm

Greetings to everyone on this site! I wanted to

introduce myself and say thanks to the those who

built and contribute here. It looks like a wonderful

site to surf for awhile! I consider myself a naturalist

and an earth healer, part of the earth healing I do

usually involves working with the trees on the land in

some capacity. This site looks great to help further

my physical knowledge and to ask questions if need

be regarding any trees I may need some help with.

Right now my contact info is email or FB or my FB

group 'Sacred Land.'

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/266865041283/

Thanks again for all the info here. I look forward to

perusing!

Maria Mihok

Re: Leonardo’s Formula Explains

Why Trees Don’t Splinter

by michael gatonska » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:58 pm

Here is a pdf which I discovered regarding drag and

reconfiguration of leaves in high winds.

I have become more interested in this -- I am about

begin my project to make and collect recordings of

the sound of different leaves. I will be using a

surround-sound HD mic fixed onto a parabolic dish:

http://dbs.umt.edu/dbs/research_labs/breunerlab/docu

ments/Vogel_Drag_Reconfiguration.pdf

This site I found curious...

http://www.aestheticrealism.net/Teaching_Method-

RPa.htmCached

Tulip tree leaf in high wind. "Do you think," I asked,

"we're trying to put together the very same opposites

of contraction and expansion, that these leaves are?

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Mount Tom State Reservation

by dbhguru » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:49 pm

Today Monica and I took friends to Mount Tom

State Reservation. I had a number of trees to check

on. Here is an image of a gorgeous white pine that we

visited. Its stats are girth = 10.9 feet, height = 137.0

feet. It is a beaut. . More on Mt Tom tomorrow.

Robert T. Leverett

Re: Mount Tom State Reservation

by dbhguru » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:51 am

Mount Tom has a scattering of small groves and

isolated white pines that are simply gorgeous, The

mature ones range from 100 to about 180 years in

age. Girths range from 8 to 11 feet. Heights range

from 110 to 140 feet. They grow on top of a basalt

base, so soils are characteristically thin, but there are

places where soils have accumulated. This occurs

near the water courses and on lower slopes. I plan a

photographic documentation of the Mount Tom pines

in the coming interpretive trail guides for DCR.

There are other interesting species on Mount Tom.

It is the location of the champion hemlock of New

England.

There are also some species ID challenges. So, here

is the question. Does this following series of 3

images suggest that the tree is a white ash or a green

ash? Or is it unclear?

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Robert T. Leverett

Three Bryant Images, MA

by dbhguru » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:07 pm

NTS, one of the projects on my ridiculously long to-

do list is helping the Trustees of Reservations

develop a more in-depth interpretive guide for Bryant

Woods. Dr. Julie Richburg, on of the Trustee's

principal ecologists wants to highlight significant

features of Bryant Woods to include its oldest trees,

huge pines, historical and cultural significance etc.

So, another interpretive project has been launched.

Yippee! I have no shortage of images of Bryant

Woods. Here are three from today. The first is an

unnamed pine along the trail.

The next image features two standing snags - big

ones. They will be featured in the interpretive guide.

In the third image, the fellow in the distance taking

the girth of a pine is our buddy Bart Bouricius.

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Robert T. Leverett

Re: NJ Forest Harvest Issue

by greenent22 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:06 am

"NJ Forestry Association in its Spring 2011

Newsletter states that “a well‐managed forest will go

on forever, but a forest left to its own devices will die

and become useless to anyone.”"

Wow that tired old. I have lots of historical data from

various area including the Adirondacks where people

said the exact same thing, in some cases, 100 years

ago and visiting the sites where they got their way

and where they did shows a mess where they had

their way with poor forest and thriving, rich old-

growth forest where they did. Also interesting if you

look back through historical records, the lands the

loggers always most salivate over are alway the

parcels that were ages ago declated over-mature,

dying forest, funny how 30, 50, 100, 150 years later

those are still the very same parcels they most value

and the lands they touched are the ones that look to

be in the worst shape and that even they are least

interested in getting access to again.

Funny how you read tales of amazing forest and trees

going on for hundreds of miles in accounts from

hundreds and hundreds of years ago, how exactly did

all those forests manage to thrive before the arrival of

white man and massive clearing?? Larry Baum

Re: Small Sugar Maple rich NJ

forest patch

by greenent22 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:15 am

Lee Frelich wrote: Greenent: Looks to me like its

about 90-100 years since the last major disturbance,

with a few tees older than that because they were

released from suppression as sapling or pole sized

trees 90-100 years ago. Those trees might easily have

another 30-50 rings from the period during which

they were suppressed. It looks like the stand has the

typical exotic earthworm invasion and high deer

population syndrome that creates the clear

understory. The duff is probably thinner here than in

old stand in the Adirondacks because this stand is

invaded by European earthworms and stands in the

Adirondacks mostly aren't.

A canopy tree near the edge had to be cut down a few

days ago as it threatened a house. A white ash tree. I

think on order of 27" DBH. I only got a very hurried

and rough ring count today but got 156 rings on a

slice of the tree from a few feet above stump level

and the tree had already been dead for around 10

years (I have to check to find exact dates and will do

the count more carefully). Back in 1995 an ironwood

in the canopy (looked younger and was much

smaller) would also be near that range today, well

maybe 10-20 years less. I think this implies that the

bulk of the older canopy trees are probably 165 years

old or so rather than 90-100. That would actually fit

with the 1895 forest report of NJ that seemed to talk

of this section of the hills being covered in a solid 50

year old 'mature' forest (funny what some like to refer

to as mature). And 2012-(1895-50)= 167! So hmm

that would fit in crazily well with the old forest report

talking about some of the slopes above the farms

being cloaked in the 50 year old solid forest.

I wish I had gotten a count on the maple and giant

beech that fell some years back. Surprisingly that one

great beech had been taller than the oaks, maples and

ash in the areas closest to it. I think the tulip tree and

one of the sugar maples a trace deeper in may be

taller than it had been though. There were trees close

to this size that fell over as much as 30 years ago.

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I forget to get a good look at hints of suppression, my

vague recollection is it had slow growth the last 12

years or so and then quick growth for 30 years and

then slower growth for a a good while then some

slower growth for a good while then some fast

growth for first 20 years or so. By that is based on

very hazy recollection.

Since as far back as the late 1960s it is known that no

hint of cut stumps has been in evidence whatsoever,

whatever was cut had to have been cut far enough

back to have entirely rotted away and with signs gone

by then (and perhaps earlier, I have no information

either way pre-late 1960s).

I'm suspicious that in rougher soils in the north that

forest grown trees are often under-estimated in age

by 40-100 years due to comparisons to open grown

trees on old estates and trees growing in rich flats or

long unburned soils.

Larry Baum

North American Tree sin Europe -

Questions for Kouta...

by Kouta Räsänen » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm

Steve Galehouse wrote: What North American native

trees are most frequently encountered in Northern

Europe, and are any considered invasive? Northern

red oak, southern magnolia, Colorado spruce and

eastern arborvitae would likely be candidates, I

think. Does Europe also rely on Eastern Asian flora

for landscape species(as we do here)?

Steve, I am not sure what do you mean about

Northern Europe. For me it is approx. north of

Denmark, like Finland where I come from, but as

Scandinavia is definitely too cold for southern

magnolia, which was a species you suggested, I

thought maybe you mean northern Central Europe,

like Germany where I now live. Therefore, I answer

for both of those countries.

I think in Finland the most common North American

trees are blue/silver cultivars of Colorado spruce,

eastern arborvitae and balsam poplar. These species

are extensively used as ornamentals but none of them

have escaped to Finnish nature. In forestry, Douglas-

fir and lodgepole pine (P. contorta) have been

planted limetedly but their proportion is very small.

In Sweden, there is more lodgepole pine, about 3 %

of the whole forest area. In generally, very few

woody species are considered invasive in Finland.

Rosa rugosa is one.

The situation is a bit different in Germany. The worst

invasive North American tree is black locust (Robinia

pseudoacacia). It has been and is planted extensively

and it does escape extensively. For example, along

roads, railroads and in wastelands, it is in many

regions the most abundant tree. I think many have

accepted it as a part of European nature. I have

understood that in the US its vitality and usability is

limited due to a pest (locust borer?), but the pest is

absent in Europe, and black locust does here very

well.

Northern red oak is also much planted in Germany,

as a park tree and as a forest tree. It seems to

regenerate well in German forests (of course, not

under beech), but I am unsure if it is able to expand

its area without aid. It is widely accepted as a fourth

German oak species along the three native ones. And

layman does not know it is not native, of course.

Other tree species used more extensively as forest

trees, are Douglas-fir and eastern white pine; they

don't seem to escape extensively, but I have seen

seedlings of eastern white pine in forest away from

adult trees. However, the proportion of all the exotic

tree plantings of the whole German forest area is

quite small. Black cherry has also escaped in some

regions.

In addition, blue cultivars of Colorado spruce, eastern

arborvitae and Lawson's cypress (Chamaecyparis

lawsoniana) have used very extensively in

horticulture, but they don't escape.

Magnolias are not used very much. Eastern Asian

flora is much used in horticulture in both countries. I

hope I answered your question.

Kouta Räsänen

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Free public lecture by Canopy Meg

4/14/2012

by pdbrandt » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:18 pm

Hi NTS, Dr. Meg Lowman, better known as Canopy

Meg, will give the keynote address at a "citizen

science" event open to the public on Saturday, April

14th, 2012 in Raleigh, NC. Her title is Out on a

Limb: Using Research Discoveries as a "Hook" to

Inspire the Public about Science

Here's the description of her talk available at

http://www.pams.ncsu.edu/weekend/

Margaret D. Lowman (a.k.a. "Canopy Meg") will

present this year's Scope Lecture. Affectionately

known as the mother of canopy research for her 30

years of dedication to the science, Lowman has

designed hot-air balloons and walkways for treetop

exploration to solve mysteries in the world's forests,

with special expertise on the links between insect

pests and ecosystem health. Lowman is the director

of the Nature Research Center at the North Carolina

Museum of Natural Sciences and a research professor

of natural sciences in PAMS, where she focuses on

initiatives involving science communication to the

public.

I'll be there with my daughter, who loves to climb

trees. Let us know if you're planning to be there, too.

Patrick Brandt

Sine method paper just released as a

USFS research note

by DonCBragg » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:17 pm

NTS, Please follow this link to find our paper, just

published, on the sine method:

http://treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/39981

As a US Forest Service publication, it is part of the

public domain, and hence can be posted or distributed

as needed. I'm pretty happy with how this little paper

turned out, although I still think it would have been

best served as part of the original manuscript in a

scientific journal somewhere. Anyhow, this really is

only about half the original paper--the other half of

the material I intend to transform into a different

submission, probably to the Journal of Forestry,

emphasizing the implications of the

accuracy/reliability of the different techniques. I'm

not sure when I'll be able to have a draft version of

this new paper ready to route to y'all--perhaps by

later this spring, if Bob doesn't keep me too busy…

Don C. Bragg, Ph.D.

Research Forester

USDA Forest Service, Southern Research Station

rn_srs022.pdf

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European Tree Quiz

by Kouta Räsänen » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:28 pm

Would somebody like to try a European tree quiz? I

took this photo in Biogradska Gora National Park,

Montenegro, but all these species grow in Central

Europe, too. Two of them are actually tall shrubs, not

trees.

Kouta Räsänen (Answers to be posted later)

Smedley Park, Delaware Co., PA

by George Fieo » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:05 pm

Smedley Park is located in Delaware County between

Media and Springfield and contains roughly 120

acres. Most of the park is wooded with the exception

of a picnic area and a ballfield or two. The park is

surrounded by urban development and I-476 (The

Blue Route) and a transit rail line pass through the

park.

The northern half is more aesthetic and has seen the

least amount of disturbance. Crum Creek serpentines

through much of the park and is flanked by steep

slopes and large outcroppings. Oaks, hickories, and

american beech dominate the upper slopes and ridges

while mountain laurel is commonly found in the

understory. Eastern hemlock is most abundant on the

north facing slopes and support some of the best

examples of hemlock I've seen in SE Pa. Five

specimens recorded heights over 120' with the tallest

measuring 8'11" x 128.5'. The lower slopes and

creek bottoms are where the largest and tallest tulip

poplars can be found. Some of these beauties are

branchless for the first eighty feet. Five tulips had

heights over 150'. The tallest measured 12'3" x

160.3' and the largest was 16' x 139.7'. Green ash is

commonly found in the bottoms and competes well

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with the tall tulips. Four green ash recorded heights

of 130' or more with the tallest measuring 10'1" x

140.3'.

An 8'11" x 128.5' eastern hemlock

Large outcroppings such as these are common and

supported a nesting pair of turkey vultures over the

summer.

The crown of a 7' x 133' green ash.

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.

This 16' x 139.7' tulip is one of the largest trees in the

park.

This 13'1" x 151.5' tulip is one of five over 150' tall.

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The terrain in the southern half of the park is more

forgiving. Tulip and ash dominate the canopy and

the upper slopes. The oaks and hickories are still

common on the ridge tops but their numbers soon

dwindle the farther south you go. Blackgum is fairly

common and typically found with the oaks and

hickories. I documented two very impressive

blackgums where the oaks and tulips clash. They

stand like columns whose crowns grace each other in

the slightest breeze. They measure 8'8" x 116.6' and

8'11" x 117.1'. Both trees are less than two feet from

the current Pa. height record.

The southwest section is mostly a near pure stand of

140' tulip poplar with a thick understory of spicebush.

The rail line borders the park here and a small stream

overrun with japanese knotweed and other invasives

parallels the tracks. The section between the two is

more of an upland mix and contains some large tulip,

hickory, and oak trees. These trees were not logged

during the last harvest either because of their close

proximity to the tracks or they are in the rail line right

of way. The largest is a northern red oak that rivals

the largest tulip. The oak separates into two leaders

around 30' and measures 16'9" x 133.9'.

Approximately 200 yards west of the oak is an

american chestnut. It's dimensions are 3' x 100.9'.

Unfortunately, the tree appears to have the blight.

Although I coundn't see any cankers, the upper 1/3

of the tree seems to be dead and suckers are sprouting

from it's base.

Me at the base of the larger blackgum that measured

8'11" x 117.1'.

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A 16'9" x 133.9' northern red oak.

A poor photo of the 3' x 100.9' american chestnut.

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Suckers at the base of the american chestnut.

American chestnut leaves.

Smedley Park Site Index 11/21/2011

Species CBH Height

Comment

A Beech 10'2" 102.4'

A Beech 6'8" 123.8'

A Beech 8'3" 130.1'

American Chestnut 3' 100.9' New

PA Height

Bitternut Hickory 7'6" 133.3'

Blackgum 8'8" 116.6'

Blackgum 8'11" 117.1'

Black Oak ~14' 116.6' Ivy on

trunk

Black Walnut 6'9" 109.3'

E Hemlock 8'2" 120.7'

E Hemlock 8'4" 121'

E Hemlock 9' 121.4'

E Hemlock 8'3" 124.7'

E Hemlock 8'11" 128.5'

E Hophornbeam 1'7" 40'

Green Ash 8'3" 130.1'

Green Ash 7' 133'

Green Ash 8'3" 138.9'

Green Ash 10'1" 140.3'

Mockernut Hickory 7'9" 117.3'

N Red Oak 12'8" 120.7'

N Red Oak 9'2" 126.5'

N Red Oak 10'2" 129.2'

N Red Oak 16'9" 133.9'

Pignut Hickory 6'5" 115.9'

Red Hickory? 7'2" 107.6'

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Red Maple 5'11" 106.4'

Sassafras 4'3" 75.2'

Slippery Elm 5'1" 98.4'

Sugar Maple 5'10" 98.6'

Sycamore 8'2" 127.6'

Sycamore 6'4" 139'

Tulip Poplar 13'1" 151.5'

Tulip poplar 12'11" 151.6'

Tulip Poplar 10'8" 152.1'

Tulip Poplar 9'8" 154'

Tulip Poplar 12'3" 160.3'

Umbrella Magnolia 1'1" 34.7'

White Ash 6'9" 116.3'

White Ash 4'9" 119.8'

White Ash 5'7" 131.2' with

140' tulips

White Oak 11'11" 123.2'

White Oak 9' 123.8'

White Pine 7'2" 120.3'

Plantation tree

White Pine 8'4" 121.6'

Plantation tree

White Pine 6'10" 131.9'

Plantation tree

Smedley Park 12' x 100' List

Species CBH Height

Black Oak ~14' 116.6' ivy on

trunk

N Red Oak 12'8" 120.7'

N Red Oak 16'9" 133.9'

Tulip Poplar 18'5" 135.5' flared

trunk

Tulip Poplar 12'1" 138'

Tulip Poplar 12'4" 139.1'

Tulip Poplar 14' 139.4'

Tulip Poplar 16' 139.7'

Tulip Poplar 12'1" 142.9'

Tulip Poplar 13'8" 143.2'

Tulip Poplar 12'7" 145.2'

Tulip Poplar 12'3" 146.6'

Tulip Poplar 12'2" 147'

Tulip Poplar 12'8" 147.5'

Tulip poplar 12'5" 148.8'

Tulip Poplar 12'7" 149.1'

Tulip Poplar 13'7" 149.6'

Smedley Park 12' x 150' List

Species CBH Height

Tulip Poplar 13'1" 151.5'

Tulip Poplar 12'11" 151.6"

Tulip Poplar 12'3" 160.3"

Smedley Park Rucker 10 Index

Species CBH Height

Coordinates

Tulip Poplar 12'3" 160.3' N39

55.582 x W75 21.673

Green Ash 10'1" 140.3' N39

55.155 x W75 21.854

Sycamore 6'4" 139' N39

55.768 x W75 21.378

N Red Oak 16'9" 133.9' N39

54.915 x W75 21.911

Bitternut Hickory 7'6" 133.3' N39

55.108 x W75 21.658

White Pine 6'10" 131.9' N39

54.830 x W75 21.621

White Ash 5'7" 131.2' N39

54.858 x W75 22.003

A Beech 8'3" 130.1' N39

55.430 x W75 21.603

E Hemlock 8'11" 128.5' N39

55.328 x W75 21.618

White Oak 9' 123.8' N39

54.939 x W7 521.818

RI 135.23'

I hardly noticed all of the hustle and bustle that

surrounds Smedley Park. It's an oasis not only for

wildlife but for the nature loving suburbanite as well.

George Fieo

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Re: 3D surface modeling of a giant

redwood trunk

by M.W.Taylor » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:46 pm

M. D. Vaden wrote: It would be cool if a program

could take some of the data you got, like on Drury

Tree, then if a .jpg photo were imported, it could

mould the image like a 3D skin.

The existing online manuals that I have seen so far

tell me nothing about how to do that. There is a

MeshLab blogsite/help forum for programmers. That

may be the best place to get the nuts and bolts on

picture importation and texture applications.

I attached the latest volume solution for Drury Tree.

The default example solves for volume between 0

and 2 feet. You can change the ray angle, clice

thickness and height interval. You'll notice an

increase in volume for a smaller ray angle which is

essentially the number of triangles the cross-sectional

cookies are fitted to. The smaller the angle the finer

the fit. For a ray angle of 1 degrees that would equate

to 360 sub triangles to fit the polygon.

For 0-5th height solution it takes about 10 minutes to

finish the calculation. Be patient or use Control-Alt-

Del. User input ray angle of 10 degrees = volume of

1027 cubic feet. Rayangle of 5 degrees=1042 cubic

feet. Rayanle of 2 degrees = 1050 cubic feet.

Rayangle of 1 degrees = 1052. As you can see the

gain in precision is not linear in proportion to the

decrease in rayangle. One side of the tree has low

cloud density so the software interpolates a few of the

in-between points(using the most conservative curve

fitting possible).

There is a point where there is little to no precion to

be gained with a finer rayangle. For this cloud set it

appears 1 degrees is about as small as you would

want to go. The attached program will not accept a

rayangle under 1 degrees. If you input .5 for instance,

the program will blow up. I am working on fixing

this. But for most cloud sets you would not want that

type of scan density. It would slow the program down

tremendously and give no extra increase in accuracy.

Press Control-V to solve for volume. Be patient. The

program takes about 30 seconds to display area and

volume updates as it constructs the various polygons

for each cookie. Solution takes about 2 minutes per

foot of height intervals. You can see the current

working height interval status on row M7 to gauge

time left for volume solution.

The cloud set acquired from Drury is not yet dense

enough to solve for volume above 10 feet. Not

enough points to interpolate the cross-sectional

wedges...yet.

free form volume solver.xls Drury Tree volume

solution for lower trunk

Michael Taylor

Update: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:48 pm

The attached is a more stable volume solver

spreadsheet with cloud set of lower trunk of

Redwood Creek Giant. I would recommend replacing

the older version with this one, if you already

downloaded the older version. Be patient. The

solution takes a long time, especially if you chose

fine intervals.

free form volume solver-RGC.xls Visual Basic

volume solver for Redwood Creek Giant (9.37 MiB)

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Re: European Tree Quiz

Answers:

Top row: Fagus sylvatica, Acer pseudoplatanus,

Acer plataoides, Tilia platyphyllos

Middle row: Alnus incana, Corylus avellana, Salix

caprea., Salix alba

Bottom row: Fraxinus excelsior, Ulmus glabra,

Prunus avium, Pyrus communis subsp. pyraster,

Crataegus rhipidophylla, Cornus sanguinea

European Tree Quiz – Set #2

by Steve Galehouse » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:07 pm

Here is a short quiz, all European conifers(from my

yard), two photos each of 5 species:

1.

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2.

3.

eNTS: The Magazine of the Native Tree Society - Volume 2, Number 01, January 20122 20112

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4.

5.

Steve Galehouse

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Viet Nam

by jamesrobertsmith » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:17

pm

I read a lot of English language news sites from

around the world. One of the least sugar-coated when

it comes to environmental news is Vietnamnews.

They're brutally honest when it comes to

environmental degradation both in Viet Nam and

around the planet. I was impressed with this article

which claims that they have increased tree cover in

the nation from 32% to 40% since 1998. Considering

some of the unflattering things that they have

admitted about their ecological crimes since I've been

following the site, I have to say I lean towards

believing this particular claim.

http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/social-

issues/220069/state-president-launches-tree-planting-

festival.html

Herbert Taylor/Daniel Johnson

Nature Preserve, Atlanta, GA

by eliahd24 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:01 pm

This weekend I was able to do a thorough searching

of a great urban green space in Atlanta known as

Herbert Taylor and/or Daniel Johnson Nature

Preserve in the Morningside Neighborhood on the

Northeast side of Atlanta, GA. It's mostly floodplain

along Rock Creek, which is a small urban stream

flowing due North where it meets Peachtree Creek at

the northern edge of the park. In addition to the great

floodplain, it's got a very nice east facing slope of

deciduous hardwoods typical of many mature

Piedmont Forests. This site lies very near where

Sherman's troops were said to have had an

encampment and also there is reportedly a historic

Creek Indian village at the confluence of Rock Creek

and Peachtree Creek. The surrounding neighborhood

was first laid out in the early 1920's but the park land

was maintained by 1 or 2 families and donated to the

city in the last few decades. Some farming and

grazing is said to having taken place, but I suspect

many of the trees and micro-ecosystems date back to

the Civil War or possibly earlier.

HTDJ map.pdf map

map2 Taylor Johnson screen shot.jpg

My main goal was to confirm ID on a tricky oak

species that had fooled me in the past. I posted it in

the BBS under "Black Oak?" earlier this week.

Though I was leaning towards Q. velutina initially,

now I really feel like these trees are Q. shumardii

(Shumard Oak) after examining the bark and

collecting more leaves:

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I also wanted to get a more complete Rucker 10

index and take a really good inventory while the

weather was good and I had enough time to devote.

I'll cut to the chase and list the tall trees first, then

get to the pictures. Note- I'm using the first 2 letters'

of the Genus and first 2 of the species to code the

trees:

LiTu 13' x 147.5'

*QuSh 7'3.5" x 141.0'

*LiSt 8'8" x 140.3'

PiTa 9' x 135.6'

QuRu 9'6.5" x 128.3'

TiHe 6'5.5" x 126.7' (biggest of 3 trunks)

QuAl 10'3.25" x 126.1'

*PoDe 11'4" x 125.3'

QuVe 9'10" x 125.2'

FaGr 10'6.5" x 124.5'

*CaI l 121.5'

PlOc 118.1

QuNi 7'1.5" x 116.4

*FrPe 5'4" x 113.3

*AcSa 12'4" x 111.0

QuFa 7'11.5" x 111.1'

*PrSe 7'5" x 110.5'

**DiVi 3'7" x 102'

RUCKER 10 index: 132.1'

* tallest in metro-Atlanta

** tallest in Georgia

...also Campsis radicans up to 23" CBH!

I call this place the "Little Congaree of Atlanta"...

that may be a stretch, but with soaring Sweetgum and

Loblollies, along with the biggest native vine species

in the city, you can see some similarities. Keep in

mind the orange tape measure is 5" wide (for scale):

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Large liana's all over

Trumpet Creeper and Sweetgum

10'4" CBH loblolly

loblolly crown

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Though the biggest part of the park is a (30 acre?)

floodplain, there's one small mound (claimed as an

Indian mound by some) that is an island of more

upland species including one Silverbell and a really

tall, triple trunked Basswood:

Silverbell bark

triple trunk basswood

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triple top Basswood

The city champion Silver Maple resides in this park

(including in tree list above):

City champion Silver Maple- 12'4" CBH

One of the only parks in Atlanta that I've found such

numerous and large Cottonwoods:

13' CBH Cottonwood

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One area is almost solid with Green Ash, though they

all seem to be about 109'-113' tall:

Green Ash

Another species that I only occasionally find to be

big/tall around Atlanta is Black Cherry and this is

about the biggest and is the tallest in the city:

biggest cherry tree

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One of the most impressive finds was this 102' tall

Persimmon! Wowzers! Tallest in GA I believe...

DiVi bark

3'7" x 102' Persimmon

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And the best for last....

Tallest Sweetgum in Atlanta (5' shy of tallest in GA)

8'8" x 140.3' Sweetgum

Tallest Shumard Oak in Atlanta (and GA?)

7'3.5" x 141' Shumard Oak and 136' Sweetgum

Okay...enough typing. Off to the woods again. It's

supposed to be 60 and sunny on this late January day.

Eli Dickerson

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Hemlock crown sampling for UT

study, GSMNP

by Will Blozan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:33 pm

NTS, my company has recently been hired to climb

hemlocks treated with insecticides to combat

hemlock woolly adlegid. The trees were treated 5-7

years ago with one soil drench dosage of

imidacloprid. We are collecting 13 foliar samples per

tree from the terminal leader down to the lowest live

crown. The samples will be analyzed by University

fo Tennessee Knoxville for insecticide or metabolite

concentrations as well as current HWA infestation.

The goal of the project is to assess the residual

efficacy of prior treatments in order to better define

minimal dosages and maximum time between return

intervals. The idea is to find out how little product

can be used and how long before another treatment is

needed. The study not only spans the verticality of

the crown but is also looking at differing diameter

classes, dosage rates, and timing. This study will be

incredibly useful in determining the best possible

plan for the continued and future preservation of

eastern hemlock forests. It will help land managers

save many thousands of trees and dollars while

minimizing expenses and maximizing success. A

win/win situation for all parties!

We have just completed the first wave of climbs; 138

trees on four different sites. In a given day a climber

would climb 6-11 trees and log 500-900 feet of

ascent. We did go as high as we could to get near the

terminal leader so great views were common. Here

are some shots from the project.

Cosby rainforest

The first day near Cosby, TN was nasty cold and

rainy. We set up tarps for the foliar processing and

shelter. Naturaly, the climbers had no shelter and the

hemlocks dripped into the next day...

Healthy grove

Arborist view of the treatment site- note healthy

green hemlocks. Untreated trees were stone dead.

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Nick Smith in top of large hemlock. This was his first

tall tree climb- he did great!

Nick and his big tree.

Jason Childs in a very healthy top with Smokies

behind.

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Three aloft

At a site near Walland, TN we all got to climb

adjacent trees at the same time. Nice- since some

sites had trees 1/2 mile apart!

Horny bull

Here is Jason with his eye on an approaching bull.

This bull, we had been warned by the local farmer,

was distraught at being pulled from his harem to

"rejuvenate". He was grumpy and mean so we had to

stay clear. Fortunately he remained far from us and

the truck...

Awesome sky

The sky was stunning at the end of the day.

Nick crossing

The last site was across a large creek. It was too deep

and swift to risk crossing with heavy gear- let alone

35 bags of samples! So Nick "took one for the team"

and waded across so we could set up a traverse to

shuttle gear and people.

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First the gear...

nick

people

Then the people.

witches broom

One of the trees I climbed had witches broom in it- I

had never seen it upclose before. Really bizarre!

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Jason and giants

Jason in another tree at the last site. This area was

older than the others and had some really impressive

white pine mixed in. Hemlocks here hit ~ 130' tall-

pines maybe 160'.

Healthy

DAMN IT'S NICE TO CLIMB HEALTHY

HEMLOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will

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Re: European Tree Quiz – Set #2

1. Pinus mugo

2. Picea orientalis

3. Pinus heldreichii, Bosnian pine

4. Pinus sylvestris

5. Pinus cembra

"Oxbow" at Emory University,

Atlanta, GA

by eliahd24 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:04 pm

Another amazing winter day in Atlanta. Mid 50's and

insanely sunny and dry. This was my second outing

in as many days. The goal was to revisit a few tall

trees I measured in 2010 and do some more thorough

searching for hidden gems.

This site is a sliver of a green space that's part of the

very large campus of Emory University. The creek

that flows through is fairly small and runs due South

to Peachtree Creek and enters just upstream from

where Rock Creek enters (see previous post on

Herbert Taylor/Daniel Johnson Nature Preserve). I

inventoried exclusively on the steep East facing slope

along with a few trees in a floodplain area and the

namesake "oxbow".

watershed and map

I started off by entering the woods much further

South than I intended, which was a blessing in

disguise, allowing me to "discover" 2 particularly

amazing trees- a Northern Red Oak and a Beech

Tree.

Creek bed at South end of forest:

creek bed south

This was no run-of-the-mill Beech. Upon closer

inspection, I realized this would be the new city

champ, which is quite impressive b/c the current

champ is no slouch at 12'2" x 116'!

What a trunk!

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big beech trunk

14'2" x 126.9' Beech

Having both great girth and extraordinary height, this

will likely be state co-champion for the species

(current champ is 327 points, though I believe the

height may be exaggerated at 135')

It was right along the creek and had neat little

pockets in the root flares with native ferns:

fern pockets

Next up was a magnificent Quercus rubra. This is

the first confirmed over 140' in Atlanta at 141.3' tall

x 10'1.5" CBH. It's also one of the tallest in the

state, though I know Jess Riddle has found a few

taller in the mountains. Might be a champ for the

Piedmont??

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10'1.5" x 141.3' Northern Red and Champion Beech

From this area, heading north along the creek, the

west bank gets very steep and becomes almost

vertical at the "oxbow" area with a good 50-75' drop

to the creek.

view above creek

Mountain laurel on slope

Next up was a remeasure of a tall Bitternut Hickory

(Carya cordiformis) down in the oxbow floodplain.

This skinny tree (CBH: 5'6") faces a 75' slope and

has it toes in very moist substrate. Again, another

impressively tall tree which may be the tallest in the

state:

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133.9' Carya cordiformis

CaCo bark

My other remeasure was a big Quercus rubra also in

the oxbow. It was 10'9.5" x 133.1' tall.

Full inventory and R10:

QuRu 10'1.5" x 141.3'*

LiTu 133.9'

CaCo 5'6" x 133.9'**

PiTa 9'5" x 129'

FaGr 14'2" x 126.9'

TiHe 6'11.5" x 126.7'

LiSt 124.9'

PiEc 6'10" x 122'

CaGl 119'

QuAl 118.1'

MaMa 1'7" x 56.9' (Bigleaf Mag.)

--------------

R10 = 127.6'

(this will rise with additional measurements on QuAl

and LiTu species)

*Tallest in Atlanta and top 5 in state

**tallest in GA? Jess Riddle has documented a few

of similar height in N. Georgia

The forests of Emory University continue to surprise

and amaze. Overall, in terms of diversity, tall trees,

and big trees Emory will crush most other green

spaces in metro-Atlanta. It's even more impressive

than the nearby Fernbank Forest in many ways (only

about 2 miles apart). I look forward to doing more

searching around Emory before leaf-out and sharing

my findings with some of the ecologists and land

managers at Emory as well.

Cheers,

Eli Dickerson

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Re: Smedley Park, Delaware Co., PA

by George Fieo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:36 am

edfrank wrote: That is an amazingly tall American

Chestnut. The leaves look right. Did you find any

signs of chestnut burrs? The tallest we have in our

database is 106 feet tall in Cicero in Washington

State. This is the tallest known in the east in the

tree's native range, as far as I can tell. Spectacular.

Any sign of blight? What about other good sized

chestnuts in the area?

The tree is stressed and likely has the blight. This

was the only chestnut I saw in the park and no burrs

were found.

Most of the american chestnuts I find are stump

sprouts or small single stems 15-20' tall often with a

heavy lean towards sunlight. McKaig Educational

Nature Center in King of Prussia is one such site and

supports a 1'6" x 43.2' chestnut. Warwick County

Park has an unmeasured specimen with a girth ~2'

and between 40-50' tall. I returned to measure this

tree but somehow missed it. Both of these sites are in

Chester County. I suspect that French Creek State

Park has the highest probability of finding large

chestnuts. The park is huge with more than 7,000

acres and is located in both Berks and Chester

Counties.

Another American chestnut at McKaig Educational

Nature Center.

A 1'6" x 43.2' American chestnut at McKaig

Educational Nature Center.

George Fieo

In This State: Charlie Cogbill indeed

sees ...

by edfrank » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:29 pm

In This State: Charlie Cogbill indeed sees the forest

for the trees by Bryan Pfeiffer | January 27, 2012

http://vtdigger.org/2012/01/27/in-this-state-charlie-

cogbill-indeed-sees-the-forest-for-the-trees/

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Re: In This State: Charlie Cogbill

indeed sees ...

by Don » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:35 am

And Charley's interest in the surveyors notes may

well be important. Early in my forestry career, I

worked on a survey crew that used the same

mountain transit, steel tape, and other gear that the

original surveyor did, in our attempt to identify the

original survey line. My first job away from home,

hundreds of miles north in Oregon, had me living in

government cabins where we pumped spring water

up into a tank attached to a pole structure we built, so

that we'd have gravity feed spring water. Evenings

we'd read by propane lanterns, from the original

surveyor's notes for the following day's field work.

Often we'd find signs of the orignal surveyors

passing, a century before. Scribing on bearing tree

bases, planks they practiced scribing on, branches

that had been cut to clear the survey line, rocks that

had been piled into monuments, and finally when the

going got tough, and the time was short, no sign from

a ridge line down to the valley below, where after no

sign for 4 miles, we found a section corner down

where it was flatter, enabling the surveyor to get his

horse and wagon team to it.

Ooops, got to rambling, what I started out to say was

that the original survey notes have a surprisingly

large amount of information, particularly in naming

species and sizes. More recently when I was

pursuing advanced education at Northern Arizona

University in Flagstaff, one of my colleagues had

focused his thesis on statistically extrapolating forest

communities, making estimates of timber volume

back then, and a host of other data. In the somewhat

new discipline of Ecological Restoration, this kind of

data collection is used to establish Reference

Conditions, to provide a sense of what the preceding

forest ecosystem was like at the time of settlement,

human disturbance.

Cool stuff...

Don Bertolette

Re: 3D surface modeling of a giant

redwood trunk

by fooman » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:45 pm

HI Michael, The company I work for has recently

purchased Rapidform XOR, a reverse engineering

software package. I just installed it and had a play

with a point cloud you uploaded.

I've only just started to play with this software, so

was just using your data to familiarise myself with it.

The computer I'm on chokes on it a bit - probably

needs a better graphics card. It can do textures, but

not texture tiling (or at least I haven't found that).

Melkor in Rapidform XOR

Out of interest, I've been at a plant shutdown where

another company was doing an internal laser scan of

a large vessel (~ 6 m in diameter, 30 m tall). They

were getting mm-scale accuracy of the internal lining

with a Leica ScanStation (http://hds.leica-

geosystems.com/en/Leica-ScanStation-

C10_79411.htm) and Rhino3D

(http://www.rhino3d.com/). They did about 2 days

scanning, 3 days on the software (but a lot of that was

generating models from the engineering drawings to

compare the scan against). Looked very impressive.

Maybe $200k worth of kit, and they would probably

charge ~25k to 50k for the job.

Cheers,

Matt Smillie

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Number 118, MTSF, MA

by dbhguru » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:06 pm

NTS, here is the text of a message sent to DCR.

Afterwards - some images.

================================

Hi Tim and Dave,

Yesterday Monica, Ed Ritz, and I visited MTSF

to gather more information for the Nature Trail Guide

that we'll be developing for DCR. Coming up the old

Cold River Road from the lower meadow, I stopped

to check on a tree that my friend John Eichholz

measured some years in the past. The tree, a white

pine, grows a short distance uphill from the Wheeler

grave site. The pine was slightly over 148 feet in

height at the time John measured it. Subsequently, I

lost track of the tree, but relocated and measured it

yesterday. I am pleased to report that it is now 151

feet in height. The second of the attached images

shows the tree looking upward into its crown. Quite a

sight. The pine's girth is a modest 8.5 feet, and I

think, about 150 years old. I am calling the tree the

Rachel Carson Pine, and it becomes the 118th pine in

MTSF that achieves the height threshold of 150 feet.

With the one 150-foot white ash in the Trout Brook

watershed (assuming it is still standing), we have 119

reaching the 150-foot threshold in MTSF.

I used the pine to illustrate measuring challenge.

The first attachment is an Excel spreadsheet created

for Laser Technology Inc. (LTI) to show the

difference between height determinations using the

NTS sine-based method versus the built-in height

routine for the TruPulse 200 and TruPulse 360. The

built-in routine is the one commonly used to measure

tree height, but suffers from an often fatal flaw. The

tree-measuring workshop scheduled for Cook Forest

on April 18-19 and the one being tentatively planned

for MTSF in October will address the measuring

challenges one encounters with trees of widely

varying shapes, in challenge terrain, and growing in

the open versus within a stand.

An updated list follows of sites in the Northeast

with 150-foot white pines. I've restricted the list to

those having at least 4 trees on a site that achieve the

height threshold.

State Site # 150s

MA MTSF 118

(Will increase. Potential for over 150 within 10

years.)

PA Cook Forest SP 111

(Probably over 120 by now. Potential for more -

needs to be assessed.))

NH Private 65

(Probably around 70 by now. Potential for 80 to 90.)

PA Hearts Content 19

(Likely to diminish in the future.)

MA Bryant Woods 15

(Likely to gradually increase, but will probably never

exceed 20.)

PA Anders Run 7

(Potential for more - needs to be assessed.)

NY Elders Grove 7

(Likely will never exceed 10.)

MA Ice Glen 4

(Likely will never exceed 7 or 8.)

The above numbers identify the three white pine

super sites in the Northeast: MTSF, Cook Forest SP,

and the private site in NH. Cook Forest has the oldest

and tallest trees of the three sites. Mohawk shows the

most future potential. Mohawks pines have lots of

growing left to do. Many have reached the big

numbers, still exhibiting young bark characteristics

on the upper part of their trunks and show healthy,

bushy crowns. This leads me to believe that we are

seeing the best that the species can achieve for the

site conditions and age range. Dr. Lee Frelich

projects a maximum height potential of 175 feet for

the Mohawk Pines. I concur.

======================================

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The Rachel Carson pine. It is a picture perfect pine.

Monica, visiting one of her favorite haunts.

In the Algonquin Grove.

The pine in front of Cabin #6. I remeasured it from a

new vantage point allowing me to see more of the

crown. Height = 158.0 feet, girth = 8.7 feet. I

carefully monitor this great pine. It has lots of

growing left to do and its relatively protected location

virtually guarantees that it will enter the 160 Club

within 3 years, barring damage.

Robert T. Leverett

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Re: Atlanta city Rucker Height

Index - January 2012

by eliahd24 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:12 pm

With new discoveries the Atlanta R10 jumps over

141'

Species /CBH'/Height'/Location

Liriodendron tulipifera: 13.25 x 166.2

Beecher Hills Park

Quercus alba: 8.33 x 143.2

Fernbank Forest**

Carya glabra: 6.70 x 142.6

Beecher Park

Pinus taeda: 9.42 x 142.2

Fernbank Forest

Quercus shumardii: 7.13 x 141.0

Herbert Taylor Park**

Liquidambar styraciflua: 7.29 x 140.3

Herbert Taylor Park

Quercus rubra: 12.83 x 137.2

Beecher Hills Park

Carya cordiformis: 5.50 x 133.9

Emory University**

Quercus coccinea: 12.81 x 133.1

Emory University

Pinus echinata: 6.50 x 131.6

Fernbank Forest*SC

RUCKER 10 Index (average of top 10 species):

141.1'

Fraxinus americana: 14.00 x 131.6

Louise G. Howard Park*SC

Platanus occidentalis: 9.80 x 131.5

Old Briarcliffe Rd

Tilia heterophylla: 6.96 x 130.5

Fernbank Museum

Fagus grandifolia: 130.5

Emory University**

Quercus falcata: 8+ x 127.5

Fernbank Forest**

Ulmus alata: 6.73 x 126.6

Fernbank Forest**

Quercus velutina: 9+ x 125.9

Fernbank Forest

Populus deltoides: 13.50 x 125.3

Herbert Taylor Park

Carya illinoiensis: 121.5

Herbert Taylor Park**

Quercus nigra: 12.32 x 121.4

Cascade Springs

RUCKER 20 Index (average of top 20 species):

134.2'

**tallest in Georgia

*SC = state champion tree (total points)

I've also attached the Excel doc going about 60

species deep for you data mongers like me :)

~Eli Dickerson

Atlanta's Tallest Trees_Dickerson_2012.xls

Atlanta's Tallest Trees_Jan2012

Devil's Den Preserve, Redding, CT

by AndrewJoslin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:54 pm

Bob, on Sunday I happened visit conservation land in

Redding CT called Devil's Den Preserve. There are

some excellent tuliptree stands, battery died on my

rangefinder so I didn't measure but the overall

qualities of the trees indicated they are worth

measuring, big straight boles, high crowns, sheltered

setting, good groundwater supply etc. Probably

young as tulips go but good height. By comparison

for example they looked better than the Robinson

tulips, higher crowns, overall straighter and taller. An

example I think of up and coming tall trees in

Connecticut. LIDAR might be a good way to get

started sorting out Connecticut, if there's enough data

available.

Andrew Joslin

eNTS: The Magazine of the Native Tree Society - Volume 2, Number 01, January 20122 20112

142

134’ Tuliptree photo by Andrew Joslin

Re: Devil's Den Preserve, Redding,

CT

by sam goodwin » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:37 pm

Ryan LeClair wrote: The trip was a blast but not a

total success. We entered the park hoping for 140+

height trees and ended up not finding any that tall.

However, we did find a tulip poplar that was 134.5

feet tall.

That 134.5 tulip beats the biggest one we found. Off

the Pent trail we found a grove of tulips and

measured 4 of the 7 or so.They were 6;4" cbh @ 105',

6'7" cbh @ 102, 7'10" @ 109' and 8'31/2" cbh @

110'. Off the Saugatuck trail we found a double tulip,

10'6" @ 101" and a shagbark hickory, 6'6" cbh @ 95'

and measured a oak, about 6' cbh @ 101'. There was

alot of tulips along the way in the 100' range. For the

large number of stone walls, I found none of the

gnarly old maple or oaks usually found with the

walls. I counted the rings on a fallen pine tree that

had been dead for a while and recently cut up. There

was about 80 rings and that goes along with the 30

charcoal producing kilns that operated here between

the 1800's and up to 1920.

Sam Goodwin

Re: Devil's Den Preserve, Redding,

CT

by AndrewJoslin » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:53 am

Sam I think you may have measured the first group

of tulips we looked at. Interesting thing is, we found

the 134.5' tulip at the location where I'd located

emergent trees using Google maps satellite view. I

entered the coordinates from the Google map into my

GPS, it was about .2 miles northeast from the tulips

off Pent Trail.

Probably the greatest density of largish tulips and

best growing conditions were north of the Dayton Rd.

in a watershed area of the Saugatuck Reservoir on the

north end of Devil's Den. Doug Bidlack was running

excitedly through the woods from tree to tree trying

to get more measurements before sundown, we

practically had to lasso him and drag him out when it

was time to go!

-AJ

Devil's Den Preserve in Weston and Redding photo

by Andrew Joslin

eNTS: The Magazine of the Native Tree Society - Volume 2, Number 01, January 20122 20112

143

External Links:

L'homme qui plantait des arbres (The Man Who

Planted trees) - Video

http://dotsub.com/view/2d7b8a37-4f64-4241-8019-

642e965d124f

Moss Has Cloned Itself for 50,000 Years, Study

Says Hawaiian plant may be one of oldest

multicellular organisms.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/12/11

1230-cloning-sex-moss-hawaii-oldest-

science/?source=link_fb20120101news-

hawaiianmoss

Looking for Longleaf: The Fall and Rise of an

American Forest, book by Lawrence S. Earley

http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/page/141

Live Oak: Historic Ecological Structures by Dr.

Kim D. Coder http://www.warnell.uga.edu/news/wp-

content/uploads/2011/02/Live-Oak-Keynote-pub.pdf

Antarctic Mosses Record Conditions on the Icy

Continent Wynne Parry, LiveScience Senior Writer

Date: 30 December 2011 Time: 01:30 PM ET

http://www.livescience.com/17686-antarctic-mosses-

climate-change.html

Money Trees in Scotland: Who says money

doesn't grow on trees? Coins mysteriously appear in

trunks up and down the country. by Emma Reynolds

13th September 2011.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-

2036581/Mystery-wishing-trees-studded-coins-

illness-away-sick.html#ixzz1icVWckFL

[Video] Fstoppers Original: The Tree Spirit

Project, Nudes In Nature

http://fstoppers.com/video-fstoppers-original-the-

tree-spirit-project-nudes-in-nature

Artist Fills L.A. Library With Lovely Ghost Trees

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1665733/artist-fills-la-

library-with-stunning-ghost-trees

Glacier "Bleeds" Proof of Million-Year-Old Life-

Forms by Mason Inman for National Geographic

News, April 16, 2009

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/09

0416-blood-falls.html

What Tree Rings Tell Us About the Life of a Tree

http://www.arborday.org/trees/ringsLivingForest.cfm

Science on the SPOT: Measuring Redwood Giants

- KQED QUEST with Steve Sillett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2lWZ4BSHQ4

Doodling in Math: Spirals, Fibonacci, and Being a

Plant [1 of 3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahXIMUkSXX0

Doodling in Math: Spirals, Fibonacci, and Being a

Plant [Part 2 of 3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOIP_Z_-0Hs

Doodling in Math: Spirals, Fibonacci, and Being a

Plant [Part 3 of 3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14-NdQwKz9w

Seeing Forests for the Trees and the Carbon:

Mapping the World’s Forests in Three

Dimensions By Michael Carlowicz Design by

Robert Simmon January 9, 2012

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/ForestCarb

on/?src=eoa-features

Dr. Margret D. Lowman - Ethiopia Expedition

2012

http://canopymeg.com/wp/2012/01/07/ethiopia-

expedition-2012/

NYC is planning to plant around 1/2 a million

trees:

http://www.milliontreesnyc.org/html/home/home.sht

ml

Urban Ecosystems and Social Dynamics Program

http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/programs/uesd/uep/

A Labor of Wonder: Mapping 19,993 Trees in

Central Park

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/nyregion/2-

enthusiasts-compose-map-of-central-park-

trees.html?_r=1

C is for Conifers - They Might Be Giants

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FijQbZeTGNc

eNTS: The Magazine of the Native Tree Society - Volume 2, Number 01, January 20122 20112

144

Flowers in Slow Motion 花卉的生命

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR1F85_wH2c

China’s Reforestation Programs: Big Success or

Just an Illusion?

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/chinas_reforestation_pro

grams_big_success_or_just_an_illusion/2484/

Measuring trees in the UK and how to submit the

information to The Tree Register:

http://www.treeregister.org/measuringtrees.shtml#girt

h

Video: Measuring an ancient ash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8PZWv1gRKQ

Measuring Carbon and Trees in the Tropics

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=

76953&src=eoa-iotd

A New Map of All the Trees in America - Where

the Trees Are: Image of the day

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=

76697

Traversing Alaska for Big Trees

by: Don Bertolette, Alaska Big Tree Coordinator

http://www.americanforests.org/our-

programs/bigtree/coordinator-of-month/alaska/

Bryophytes, the secret plants that surround us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmyfTlRBIAU&f

eature=youtu.be

Dendrology Quizzes: Test your tree identification

skills!!

https://fp.auburn.edu/sfws/samuelson/Quizzes/quizho

me.htm

Fraxinus biltmoreana and Fraxinus smallii

(oleaceae), Forest Tree of the eastern United

States by Guy L. Nesom

http://www.phytoneuron.net/PhytoN-

Fraxamericana.pdf

Migrating Siberian Shrubs

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=

76962&src=eoa-iotd

The Long Island Pine Barrens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p82I_eSr4&con

text=C39af25eADOEgsToPDskIlX2rkaul9u7sQKCz

PPGcV

The world's biggest and most vulnerable trees – in

pictures

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2012

/jan/26/worlds-biggest-trees-in-

pictures?intcmp=122#/?picture=385059450&index=1

3

The Acadian Forest, it's demise to industrial

forestry. http://vimeo.com/32691843

NASA Releases Image of Earth in Stunning HD

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/nasa-

releases-amazingly-hi-def-images-

earth.html#mkcpgn=fbth1 Large version:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsfc/6760135001/sizes

/o/in/photostream/

U. S. Forest Service Planning Rule Revision

http://www.fs.usda.gov/planningrule

Amazon rainforest mapped in unprecedented

detail

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jan/27/

amazon-rainforest-map-biodiversity-

detail?CMP=twt_fd

An interview with author, James Robert Smith:

http://www.peculiarwriter.blogspot.com/2012/01/inte

rview-with-author-james-robert.html

Mayan Deforestation and Drought

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=

77060&src=eoa-iotd

eNTS: The Magazine of the Native Tree Society - Volume 2, Number 01, January 20122 20112

145

About: eNTS: The Magazine of the Native Tree Society

This magazine is published monthly and contain materials that are compiled from posts made to the NTS BBS

http://www.ents-bbs.org It features notable trip reports, site descriptions and essays posted to the BBS by NTS

members. The purpose of the magazine to have an easily readable and distributable magazine of posts available for

download for those interested in the Native Tree Society and in the work that is being conducted by its members.

This magazine serves as a companion to the more formal science-oriented Bulletin of the Eastern Native Tree

Society and will help the group reach potential new members. To submit materials for inclusion in the next issue,

post to the BBS. Members are welcome to suggest specific articles that you might want to see included in future

issues of the magazine, or point out materials that were left from a particular month’s compilation that should have

been included. Older articles can always be added as necessary to the magazine. The magazine will focus on the

first post on a subject and provide a link to the discussion on the website. Where warranted later posts in a thread

may also be selected for inclusion.

Edward Frank – Editor-in-Chief