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Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

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Redmond ’s annual survey of Microsoft IT compensation shows that, despite a global recession, respondents reported higher average salaries—but lost some ground with raises and bonuses. By Michael Domingo, Executive Editor of New Media Good News, with Strings Attached 2009 Salaries: IMAGE FROM SHUTTERSTOCK
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Page 1: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

Redmond’s annual survey of Microsoft IT compensation shows that, despite a global recession, respondents reported higher average salaries—but lost some ground with raises and bonuses. By Michael Domingo, Executive Editor of New Media

GoodNews,with Strings Attached

2009 Salaries:IM

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Page 2: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

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Page 3: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

3 | Salary Survey 2009 | Redmondmag.com

We’re in the midst of a massive recession that’s approaching the two-year mark. In 2008, when we report-ed that salaries in the

Microsoft IT community went up, the recession had respondents wondering if IT salaries had fi nally hit a high mark. A year later, the recession has gone global, but amazingly it hasn’t had the impact on base compensation that we expected. The overall base salary this year? $83,113. While 36.5 percent of survey participants said they saw no change in salary from last year, nearly half claimed their salary was higher in 2009 (see Chart 1, this page).

It’s good news so far, but it certainly caught us with our guard down. The same was the case for Brent Magenbauer, a sur-vey respondent and server team leader at

Centra Health in Lynchburg, Va. He expected a more modest increase, “consid-ering our economy and the poor state that many companies are in.”

Tony F., a technical architect in Austin, Texas, who got a peek at the numbers, believes the results are due to companies “attempting to retain more ‘useful’ employ-ees,” to build strength against the recession.

James Robbins, Jr., a member of the Computer IT’s Adjunct Faculty at Com-munity College of Beaver County in Pittsburgh, suspects salaries jumped because more companies off-shored low-er-skilled talent over those fi ve years, so specialized workers remaining within the United States are getting paid more.

Both guesses are good ones, but we hon-estly can’t tell if this year’s results bear them out. What we do know is this: Despite the recession and reports of decreased spending and job losses, those who remain employed and working with Microsoft technologies fared bet-ter than average IT workers.

We can’t make a direct compari-son to the results of our past sur-veys, but we can place our survey in context with others to give you an idea of why this year’s base sal-ary is good news.

Take the U.S. Department of Labor’s Bureau of Labor Statistics

(BLS) fi gures released in July. According to BLS data compiled in mid-2007, the

median salary for computer systems spe-cialists and systems administrators was $68,130. Redmond readers, whose median salary is $78,156, fared better by 14 per-cent. (Although the data was just released, it’s compiled from numbers that were gath-ered in mid-2007.)

That Redmond readers saw salaries go higher in 2009 also jives with a 2009 Com-puter Economics Inc. projection. The Computer Economics reports show IT salaries rising by 2 percent. Information-Week’s 2009 results are similar, at 1.67 per-cent higher. Its survey shows median salaries at $80,000.

A Janco Associates Inc. survey doesn’t show as much optimism as our results do. Janco reports salaries for middle managers at large enterprises rising 0.43 percent to $79,575 from 2008 to 2009, but for midsize enterprises, the numbers go down 0.24 percent to $72,272.

Chart 2. Average Raise Respondents reported a mean raise of $1,569. Compared to years past, it's considerably less. Disheartening are the results for those who reported a pay cut, which accounted for 9 percent. Recessions bite in more ways than one.

Up to $999 6.4%

$1,000-$1,999 10.8%

$2,000-$2,999 12.2%

$3,000-$3,999 7.4%

$4,000-$4,999 5.3%

$5,000-$9,999 8.2%

$10,000-$14,999 2.8%

$15,000-$19,999 0.9%

$20,000-$24,999 0.4%

$25,000 or more 0.7%

No increase 35.5%

Decrease 9%

Chart 1. 2009 Overview The demographic of the average Redmond reader. Respondents who said their salaries were higher than in 2008: 49.4 percent; those who saw no change: 36.5 percent. Average, Base Salary $83,113

Median Salary $78,156

Raise/Increase $1,569

Bonus $3,046

Age 45.2 years

Years in IT 11.6 years

Male vs. Female 7:1

Education: 64.7% have at least a 4-year degree

Overall Satisfaction 3.12(1=worst, 5=best)

Chart 2a. How Your Salary Changed We asked respondents how their salary changed; 781 people responded to this portion of the survey. As the adage goes, “You never know, unless you ask.” In this case, that method worked for better than one in five respondents. Even so, about 30 percent of respondents to this question had no change or had a negative impact on salary.

Asked for a raise; justified by performance 22%

Was promoted 9%

Hiked salary as incentive to remain with company 17%

Cost of living increase 21%

Laid off; got new job 2%

No change 17

Pay cut as part of budget reductions 5%

Demoted 1%

Laid off; no job yet 3%

Other negative impacts 3%

Chart 3a. Bonuses Respondents were asked if they received a bonus this year thus far. The majority of them were denied; Chart 3b offers some good guesses as to why.

No bonus 52.4%

Up to $1,000 7.6%

$1,000 - $4,999 19.8%

$5,000 - $9,999 9.8%

$10,000 - $14,999 4.6%

$15,000 - $19,999 2%

$20,000 or more 3.8%

Chart 3b. How Are Bonuses Calculated?

Based on company profitability 22.6%

Based on personal performance 18.3%

Based on certification 0.8%

Combined profitability/performance 30.8%

Profitability/performance/certification 4.4%

Other reason not cited here 23.0%

22.6%

18.3%

0.8%

30.8%

4.4%

23.0%

Page 4: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

Where Does It Hurt?This year’s compensation is a mix of good news and bad. While many respondents report getting raises or bonuses, fewer overall received these boosts and many didn’t get as much as they did last year. A look at raises shows respondents reporting they expect an average of only $1,569 in additional compensation this year. Com-panies may be looking to retain good employees, but they’re clearly taking a tough look at incentives as they face the bigger prospect of staying fi nancially afl oat in these harsh times.

Derek Martin, a systems engineer in Eugene, Ore., told Redmond that “raises were cut out this year” at his company. Count Derek among the 35.5 percent of respondents who said they had no raise at all (see Chart 2, p. 3). Including those who said they had their pay cut, we’re looking at a bleak reality of 44.5 percent of respondents making the same or less money.

Many of the respon-dents we contacted said

their companies frequently offer raises based on sales or merit. Even with the recession, Gerhard Ziegler, a LAN admin-istrator in Parkville, Md., expects his raise will land between 3 percent and 4 percent, while Tony F. is optimistic that he’ll see a raise that closely resembles a cost-of-living adjustment of around 5 percent.

We also asked respondents to offer insights into next year’s raises (see Chart 3d, this page). Of those who expect a raise, 23 percent believe they’ll see an extra $1,000 to $3,000. Another 13 percent expect to get within the $3,000 to $4,999 range. Maybe it’s a sign of hard times ahead when the number of respondents who expect a raise shrinks by 25 percent.

The bonus picture was brighter; $3,046 on average for those who received one. But Chart 3a (p. 3) shows a grim statistic: 52.4 percent reported no bonus at all. “The recession is defi nitely a factor,” says Peter Z., an applications engineer with a value-added reseller in Illinois. “Bonuses never materialized because the company didn’t meet its stated sales goals.”

Peter’s experience is par for the course, if Chart 3b (p. 3) is any indication: 22.6 percent of companies award bonuses based on profi tability. There’s a majority if you add to that another 30.8 percent who measure bonuses based on a combination of profi tability and per-sonal performance.

Role PlayHow did job roles affect

salaries? Chart 4 (this page) shows base salaries by job title. Managers in years past have typically held the top-salaried title. This year, managers are outfl anked by programming project leads with no supervisory responsibilities, who make up 6.8 percent of the respondents. These leads’ salaries exceed the six-fi gure mark, at $100,635 on average. Managers are the largest responding segment at 34.1 percent. They claim the second spot at $98,907. One in four respondents said they’re a systems administrator. Sysadmins average $70,491.

Chart 5 (this page) shows how tenure can affect salaries. With a few anomalies, most salaries show a progression of high-er salaries the longer one stays in IT. Experienced respondents with manager and programming project-lead titles made well over six fi gures this year. In other words, it pays to remain in IT.

Technology’s Cutting Edge Historically, those with hotter, more cur-

rent technology expertise have a decided advantage (see Chart 7, p. 6). Those who work with Oracle RDBMS made serious coin this year, at $100,522. Specialists who work for outsourcing fi rms and extranets round out the top three, at $97,350 and $96,879, respectively. It’s no sur-prise that those who work with portable and embedded computing devices are making $95,228, as companies

Chart 5. Years of Experience, Job Title Experience often commands higher salaries. Exceptions here are the anomalies among managers, systems administrators, trainers and Web-based workers.

1-2 3-5 6-9 10+

Overall $59,111 $70,178 $69,539 $88,365

Database Administrator/Developer $39,748 $57,442 $72,200 $88,342

Help Desk/User Support $38,320 $46,623 $51,044 $54,750

Management (Supervisory) $112,177 $90,542 $86,007 $100,794

Network Engineer $55,404 $86,000 $67,726 $81,466

Networking Project Lead (Non-Supervisory) * * * $85,476

Programmer/Analyst $52,000 $62,371 $67,001 $83,397

Programming Project Lead (Non-Supervisory) * $66,000 $91,000 $103,084

Systems Administrator $59,675 $61,139 $59,991 $74,226

Trainer $55,280 $98,932 $79,750 $81,449

Webmaster/Developer/Producer * $64,625 $42,750 $84,917

*insufficient data

Chart 4. Base Salary, Job Title Managers usually sit atop the salary pyramid, but programming project leads fared better in 2009.

Programming Project Lead (Non-Supervisory) $100,635

Management (Supervisory) $98,907

Networking Project Lead (Non-Supervisory) $82,563

Database Administrator/Developer $80,894

Programmer/Analyst $78,818

Trainer $77,989

Network Engineer $76,877

Webmaster/Developer/Producer $74,951

Systems Administrator $70,491

Help Desk/User Support $49,887

Chart 3c. Salary Expectations for 2010 Respondents were asked to predict where salaries will be headed next year. The majority remain optimistic, but just barely. Most of them expect between $1,000 to $5,000. That optimism is evened out by the nearly half who expect no increase or predict a decrease. Many of those who responded believed the recession will continue to have impact.

It will increase 51%

...decrease 5%

...stay the same 43%

Chart 3d. Raise Expectations for 2010

Up to $999 7%

$1,001 to $2,999 23%

$3,000 to $4,999 13%

$5,000 to $6,999 3%

$7,000 to $8,999 4%

$9,000 to $10,999 1%

$11,000 or more <1%

None 43%

4 | Salary Survey 2009 | Redmondmag.com

Page 5: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

scramble for experts who can make work-ers more productive via their iPhones and BlackBerry devices.

Help desk technicians came in at the bot-tom rung of the salary ladder. Making $76,885 isn’t bad for a position that might be considered entry-level, but take this number with a grain of salt. Those who answered this part of the survey claimed more than one skill, meaning some of the higher-end managers who oversee help desk technicians were counted here as well.

We also asked respondents what Micro-soft technologies they specialized in. Microsoft has been playing up its unifi ed communications strategy this year, and it looks like companies are willing to pay for experts with Live Communications skills to the tune of $111,750. $109,202 for

Content Management Server experts and $103,858 for Application Center complete yet another, impressive top-three list.

If you predicted that experts who claim Windows operating system skills reported lower salaries, you’d be nothing short of a mind reader. At the bottom rungs of the salary ladder are IT professionals whose primary work is managing the Microsoft OS: $55,455 for NT techs, $55,911 for Windows client support and $66,844 for Windows Vista technicians.

What This Year’s Survey MeansIf we have to boil down the numbers to derive any meaning, it comes down to this: Companies will be looking to Microsoft technology to bring them out of these

fi nancial doldrums. There are hints of that taking place with forecasts of strong Win-dows 7 and Windows Server 2008 upgrade plans later this year and the growing use of SharePoint and Microsoft’s messaging plat-forms. To make all of this stuff work, there will always be a need for well-informed, well-trained, experienced Microsoft IT professionals, and companies will pay a pre-mium to hire and retain them.

Access to New Job Corporate Work Overall

Technology Security Culture Responsibilities Compensation

Absolutely satisfied 10.5 13.0 9.0 8.8 5.4

Very satisfied 33.5 34.9 25.1 39.7 25.8

Fairly satisfied 35.5 34.7 35.5 37.5 40.9

Somewhat dissatisfied 16.1 12.0 21.0 10.8 19.8

Dissatisfied 4.4 5.4 9.3 3.1 8.2

Average 3.29 3.38 3.04 3.40 3.00

Chart 6. Job Satisfaction By ranking, “Absolutely satisfied” is a 5, while “Dissatisfied” is a 1. The results show percentage of respondents for each answer (for example, 41.5 of those who responded were “Fairly satisified” with their base salaries). The Average indicates overall rank among respondents to that portion of the survey; that is, base salary satisifaction averaged 2.99, or almost “Fairly satisified.” Base Raises/ Other benefits Paid Flexible work Paid

Salary Bonuses etc. (cars, assoc. fees, etc.) Time Off Schedule Training

Absolutely satisfied 5.2 5.5 4.5 12.5 17.8 6.3

Very satisfied 24.4 21.0 16.1 38.7 38.6 20.8

Fairly satisfied 41.4 32.8 34.3 35.5 29.5 31.2

Somewhat dissatisfied 21.1 28.2 29.7 8.6 10.7 30.4

Dissatisfied 7.9 12.5 15.4 4.7 3.4 11.2

Average 2.99 2.79 2.65 3.46 3.57 2.81

In this year’s survey, we randomly e-mailed a link to an online survey to 40,000 Redmond print and PDF subscribers and Redmond Report newsletter read-ers. We trimmed those who lived outside the United States, as well as those who don’t receive the print or PDF issue, from the 1,627 responses. Then we excised respondents who said they were unemployed as of the survey. That left us with 1,368 valid responses. Note: Some of the IT pro-

fessionals we interviewed wish to remain anonymous for fear of suff ering back-lash from employers or col-leagues. We refer to those respondents by fi rst name and last initial.

MethodologyWe asked respondents to tell us what technologies their compa-nies were planning to implement. More than one in four plan to implement Windows 7 by the end of 2010—though only 9.4 per-cent plan to implement it by end of this year—with 17.2 percent upgrading to Windows Server 2008. More than 12 percent said they’d do so by the end of 2009, and nearly 35 percent already are on the OS. Another hot technology is Exchange 2010, with just 2.6 per-

cent of respondents considering installing before year’s end, but 16.2 percent expecting to have it in place by the end of 2010. What’s interesting in the data is that Windows Vista was a

big loser, with 41.8 percent of respondents saying they’d never install it, even though 21.8 percent already have. Just as interest-ing are those who’d never install Macs or Linux: 56.1 percent and 48.8 percent, respectively.

What’s Hot in Microsoft Technology

5 | Salary Survey 2009 | Redmondmag.com

Page 6: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

Chart 7. Salary by Technology Expertise If you work with data, your salary is probably nearing six figures. The Oracle experts among the Redmond readership claim to be making a king's ransom, with data warehousing experts right behind them.

Accounting software $89,035

Backup and storage management $80,964

Customer relationship management $88,941

Data warehousing $98,741

Database administration $87,004

Database development $87,027

E-commerce $94,708

Extranets $96,879

Hardware design $86,654

Help desk support $76,885

Intranets $84,640

LAN/WAN internetworking $79,285

Linux $84,135

Messaging/e-mail $81,536

Novell $83,130

Oracle $100,522

Outsourcing $97,350

Portable/embedded computing $95,228

Research/development $94,842

Routers and switches $79,816

Security $85,039

Software design $95,501

Strategic planning $96,340

Systems integration $89,208

Systems management $83,537

Telephony $83,591

Training $83,107

Unix $88,831

VPN/remote management $81,633

Virtualization $83,996

Web services $89,655

Web site development/management $88,768

Windows testing/planning/pilot $82,077

Wireless/mobile computing $84,374

*Insufficient Data

Chart 8. Salary By Microsoft Product ExpertiseMicrosoft IT specialists are often able to influence salaries. Those

whose day-to-day work extends beyond the Windows networking

OS realm have a distinct advantage in making salary demands.

Application Center $103,858

App-V $67,500

BizTalk Server $102,180

Content Management Server $109,202

Exchange $88,013

Forefront *

Windows Home Server *

Host Integration Server *

Identity Integration Server *

Internet Information Server $80,116

Internet Security/Acceleration Server *

Visual Studio $89,550

Live Communications Server $111,750

Microsoft Operations Manager $92,021

Office/Visio/FrontPage $89,674

Project Server $95,833

SharePoint Server $94,513

Small Business Server $67,356

SQL Server $90,045

Storage Server $82,021

Systems Management Server $75,667

Systems Center $81,300

Terminal Services $73,666

Windows 2000 $77,818

Windows Client Support $55,911

Windows NT Server $55,455

Windows Server 2003 (a) $72,861

Windows XP $76,411

Windows Vista $66,844

Windows Server 2008 $85,869

Windows Essential Server $86,426

Windows Server 2008 Hyper-V $84,856

*Insufficient Data

6 | Salary Survey 2009 | Redmondmag.com

Education does have some impact on salaries. Typically the higher the degree, the higher the salary. Those with doctoral degrees made the most, at $106,761 (3 percent of respondents claim to have such a degree). Those with four-year degrees or higher made better than the overall base salary: a $7,000 improvement for those with ongoing post-graduate study and another $7,000 for those who have achieved master’s degrees. Those who made better than the overall base salary comprised 62 percent of respondents, which means our readers, on the whole, are well-educated and well-compensated. It behooves those who ask, “Which earns more: a degree or a certifi cation?” to keep at their school studies.

Educational Level

Chart 9. EducationOf the 1,039 who responded, 62 percent have a baccalaureate degree or better.

By percentage By salary

Some high school 0.2 *

Graduated high school 3.9 71,810

Attended some college 20.8 75,818

Graduated 2-yr college 13 68,308

Graduated 4-yr college 30.7 83,243

Post-grad study/no degree 10.8 90,555

Master's degree 17.6 97,110

Doctoral degree 3 106,761

*Insufficient Data

Page 7: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

Chart 10. Additional Compensation Offerings Fewer companies are putting into 401(k) programs than in years past, with

additional compensation incentives mainly covering the essentials. Think medical and

dental benefits first. Figures don't add up to 100 percent, as respondents were able

to choose all that apply.

Paid medical/dental 60%

Paid life insurance 52%

401(k) without company contribution 55%

Paid training 49%

College education reimbursement 42%

Bonuses 40%

Paid certification exams 32%

Paid technical conference attendance 29%

Practice equipment (computers, switches, etc.) 21%

Software for personal use 16%

High-speed home Internet connection 12%

Stock purchase program 12%

Profit-sharing 12%

Expense account 10.7%

Stock option program 8%

Car allowance 5%

Other (please specify) 5%

Sabbatical (one month or longer) 3%

Chart 11. Salaries by State Where you live can affect salary expectations. By state, Californians top

all, with Maryland and New Hampshire IT residents in the second and

third positions. West Virginians make $35K less than the average

Redmond reader, followed by those in New Mexico and North Dakota.

Alaska $70,885.00

Alabama $75,056.00

Arkansas $67,653.00

Arizona $88,949.00

California $99,874.00

Colorado $82,532.00

Connecticut $94,540.00

Delaware $72,400.00

Florida $80,477.00

Georgia $75,246.00

Hawaii $69,671.00

Iowa $84,563.00

Idaho $79,800.00

Illinois $82,422.00

Indiana $79,721.00

Kansas $85,191.00

Kentucky $71,097.00

Louisiana $64,350.00

Massachusetts $90,731.00

Maryland $99,623.00

Maine $79,500.00

Michigan $68,121.00

Minnesota $83,223.00

Missouri $76,902.00

Mississippi $63,666.00

* Insufficient data to report results.

Montana *

North Carolina $92,942.00

North Dakota $55,225.00

Nebraska $73,391.00

New Hampshire $98,714.00

New Jersey $96,584.00

New Mexico $53,375.00

Nevada $73,766.00

New York $86,689.00

Ohio $73,454.00

Oklahoma $67,259.00

Oregon $95,766.00

Pennsylvania $74,092.00

Rhode Island $80,849.00

South Carolina $65,245.00

South Dakota $50,764.00

Tennessee $69,616.00

Texas $81,899.00

Utah $94,352.00

Virginia $91,637.00

Vermont $73,000.00

Washington $82,572.00

Wisconsin $71,835.00

West Virginia $48,400.00

Wyoming *

Chart 12. Salaries by Major Metro Areas Break down salaries by metro areas and you get a slightly different

picture. California seems to be an exception in this case, as salaries for

those in three of its major metro areas were among the highest:

Sacramento, San Francisco and Los Angeles were at the top of the list.

For other high salaries, you have to go to the other coast, particular in

the Washington, DC area and in Charlotte, North Carolina, another

high-tech hotbed

Albuquerque $69,166.00

Atlanta $79,741.00

Austin $75,706.00

Baltimore $86,477.00

Birmingham $83,200.00

Boston $95,016.00

Charlotte $106,857.00

Chicago $92,011.00

Cincinnati $82,345.00

Cleveland $84,055.00

Columbus $79,874.00

Dallas/Ft. Worth $89,774.00

Denver $77,967.00

Des Moines $89,458.00

Detroit $71,085.00

Houston $83,111.00

Indianapolis $80,010.00

Kansas City $91,723.00

Las Vegas $78,737.00

Los Angeles $104,686.00

Memphis *

Miami $90,830.00

Milwaukee $83,661.00

Minneapolis $85,708.00

Nashville $60,667.00

New York $99,436.00

Oklahoma City $72,149.00

Omaha $82,747.00

Orlando $86,100.00

Philadelphia $85,190.00

Phoenix $83,500.00

Pittsburgh $81,142.00

Portland, OR $78,688.00

Sacramento $124,575.00

Salt Lake City $95,100.00

San Antonio $78,600.00

San Diego $97,224.00

San Francisco $113,416.00

San Jose $100,353.00

Seattle $89,444.00

St. Louis $75,166.00

Tucson $76,333.00

Washington, DC $110,807.00

* Insufficient data to report results.

7 | Salary Survey 2009 | Redmondmag.com

On Hiring:“As more computers are produced and more new devices are introduced in the market, more high-tech jobs will be created. Hiring next year will most likely go up.” James Robbins, Jr., Adjunct Faculty, Computer IT, Community College of Beaver County, Pittsburgh, Pa.

Page 8: Redmond 2009 salary survey v4

Chart 13a. Hiring Plans, Next 12 Months Unemployment continues to be a struggle,so those who have a job are the lucky ones. Fewer than 30 percent of respondents expect to be wo rking with new hires. Of those, about half expect less than a handful of employees to join the IT ranks.

Yes 29%

No 47%

Unsure 24%

Yes

29%

No

47%

Unsure

24%

Chart 13b. How Many Will Be Hired?

1 to 5 51%

6 to 10 10%

11 to 20 4%

21-30 2%

30 8%

Don't know 25%

51%

10%

8%

4%2%

25%

Chart 15a. Have You Been Laid Off in the Last 12 months? We hear anecdotal evidence of colleagues and friends of coworkers being laid off or fired or RIF'ed, but from a survey perspective, Redmond readers have been lucky so far, with only 4 percent of you having been axed (and who, despite the circumstances, answered our survey). Nearly one in three who said they lost a job in the last 12 months were able to get rehired or find work elsewhere.

Yes 4%

No 96%

Yes

4%

No

96%

2008 percentage shown as white lines only.

Chart 14a. What's the Impact of Outsourcing on your Job? Outsourcing appears to have very low impact this year and next year. We've asked this question for the last 5 years and the results have been fairly steady in this regard.

2008 2009

No Impact 91.7% 91.9%

Lost job to outsourcing 5.7% 5.9%

Found job with outsourcer 2.6% 2.1%

91.9%

5.9%

2.1%

Chart 15b. ...Rehired/Found a New Position?

Rehired 5%

Found Job 27%

Unemployed 68%

5%

27%

68%

2008 percentage shown as white lines only.

Chart 14b. Will Outsourcing Impact You Next Year?

2008 2009

No Impact 90.7% 90.2%

Will lose job to outsourcing 6.8% 7.2%

Will find job with outsourcer 2.5% 2.6%

90.2%

7.2%

2.6%

8 | Salary Survey 2009 | Redmondmag.com

Chart 16. Will You Be In IT in 5 Years? Overwhelmingly, IT professionals choose to be working in this profession.

Yes 89%

No 11%

On the Salary Increase:“Certain areas the IT market still seems pretty hot, as I still get a lot of recruiter hits for contract work.” Derek Martin, Lead Systems Engineer, Roseburg Forest Products Co.


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