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TORTURE AND THE RULE OF LAW

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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little

temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin

Balancing due process

(liberty) with crime control

(safety) has always been

challenging

How does a justice system

grounded in principles of

due process protect itscitizens from terrorism;

planned or completed?

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Torture for Interrogation

Do you favor or oppose allowing thegovernment to use any means necessary,

including physical torture, to obtain information

from prisoners that might protect the UnitedStates from terrorist attacks?

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Any means necessary?

Before

verification of

torture

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Is torture ever

justified?

Sure, say about 1/3 of thisclass

Why?

Gets info not otherwise gotten

Media accounts of techniques

used at Abu Ghraib and other

places not really torture?

Necessary means to desired

end

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Gets information But is it accurate?

How reliable is information obtainedunder"coercive interrogation"?

Our attention more on the two other issues:

Did behavior of US actors really rise to the level oftorture? (Wasnt really torture)

Do some criminal events rise to such a high level of

importance that otherwise unacceptable responsetechniques become acceptableeven if laws

prohibit it? (End justifies means)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/etc/faqs.htmlhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/etc/faqs.htmlhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/etc/faqs.htmlhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/etc/faqs.html

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The wasnt really torture argument

What techniques have been admitted to?

Do those rise to the level of torture?

What would be examples of torture?

See What is torture?

Are there any guidelines for what constitutestorture?

UN Convention Against Torture Effective in 1987 and ratified by U.S. in 1994

See What laws prohibit torture?

http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htmhttp://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htmhttp://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htmhttp://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htmhttp://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htmhttp://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htmhttp://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htmhttp://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htm

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In its report to the Committee against Torture in 1999,

the US made clear that: Torture is prohibited by law throughout the United States....

No official of the government, federal, state or local, civilianor military, is authorized to commit or to instruct anyone elseto commit torture. Nor may any official condone or tolerate

torture in any form. No exceptional circumstances may beinvoked as a justification of torture. U.S. law contains noprovision permitting otherwise prohibited acts of torture orother cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishmentto be employed on grounds of exigent circumstances (forexample, during a ''state of public emergency'') or on ordersfrom a superior officer or public authority....

U.S. Department of State Initial Report of the United States of America to the UN

Committee Against Torture

http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/torture_intro.htmlhttp://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/torture_intro.htmlhttp://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/torture_intro.htmlhttp://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/torture_intro.htmlhttp://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/torture_intro.htmlhttp://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/torture_intro.html

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The new take on liberty and death

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The end justifies means argument

Dershowitz and the ticking bomb

Torture warrants?

Frontline panelon ticking bomb

To stay strong, the liberal democracies need to becertain that they are better than their enemies (TheEconomist, 11 JAN 03)

The enemy we fight has no respect for human life or

human rights. They dont deserve our sympathy. But thisisnt about who they are. This is about who we are.These are the values that distinguish us from ourenemies. (Senator John McCain, 25 JUL 05)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/justify/http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/justify/

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Attempts to find exceptions

Any situations where torture is permitted?

If government officials find situations wherein

they believe the law does not applyand

thereby effectively ignore itthe rule of law isabsent

http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htmhttp://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htm

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Any means necessary?

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Responses to why

Work?

We are obviously getting someuseful information . . . otherwise Iseriously doubt we wouldcontinue our interrogationtechniques

I strongly believed that in mostcases the tool of torture is moreoften than not unsuccessful,resulting in wasted time andenergy

During class discussion I changedmy position to opposing itbecause I began to question theeffectiveness of torture

Unless we know for a fact thatthe torture will be beneficial weshouldn't do it

Means-Ends?

There should be an evil tocombat the evil that is in ourworld today

Id favor it if we can be 100%

sure an attack can be preventwith torturebut there is noway we can be 100% sure

If it is believed the informationis valid and will save American

lives, then I favor use oftorture

If we have to do these thingsto be safe, then we should

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Responses to why

What Constitutes Torture?

Torture does not always

inflict permanent injury

Effects of psychological

torture need to beexamined further

Mental torture seems more

humane than physical

torture

Higher Standard?

If we torture people, how can weexpect anything other than thesame from other countries?

The US needs to lead by exampleand not stoop to those levels

It is hard for the US to reprimandother countries for doingsomething we do

America is no better than anyother country and if we don't

want it done to our soldiers thenwe shouldn't do it to othercountries

If we torture prisoners we are nobetter than the terrorists we aretrying to catch

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Changing Emphasis

Interesting to me that Sp06 class emphasizedthe does it work whereas the Fa08 class

emphasized the what is torture and the

higher standard arguments

Seldom was the very simple its wrong

argument made (Fa08: Torture is inhumane, in

fact inhuman, and cannot be justified regardless

of circumstances)

Still have quite a way to go!