of 7
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
1/16
1 UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT
2 NORTHERN DI STRI CT OF CALI FORNI A
3 SAN J OSE DI VI S I ON
4 UNI TED STATES OF AMERI CA, ) CR- 01- 20127- J F )
5 P l ai nt i f f , ) ) San J os e, Cal i f or ni a
6 v s . ) Ma y 2, 2002 )
7 ROGER VER, ) )
8 De f e nda nt s . ) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ )
9
10 TRANSCRI PT OF PROCEEDI NGSBEF ORE THE HONORABLE J EREMY F OGEL
11 UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT J UDGE
12
A P P E A R A N C E S: 13
F or t he Uni t ed St at e s Uni t ed St at es14 of Amer i c a: At t or ney ' s Of f i c e
By: SCOTT H. FREWI NG, AUSA 15 150 Al maden Avenu e
Sui t e 900 16 San J os e, Cal i f or ni a 95113
17 Fo r t he De f endan t Ar guedas , Cass man & Head l ey ,Ver : L L P
18 By: CRI STI NA C. ARGUEDAS803 Hear s t Avenue
19 Ber k el ey , Cal i f or ni a 94710
20
21
Cour t Repor t er : PETER TORREANO, CSR22 L i cens e Number C- 7623
23
24
25
1Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page1 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
2/16
1 Sa n J os e , Cal i f or ni a May 2, 2002
2 P R O C E E D I N G S
3 THE COURT: At t hi s t i me t he Cour t wi l l t ake up
4 t he mat t er of Uni t ed St at es v e r s u s Roger Ver .
5 And c o ul d I ha ve c ouns e l s ' appe ar a nc e s f o r t he
6 r ec or d, pl eas e.
7 MR. F REWI NG: Sc o t t F r e wi n g f o r t h e Un i t e d
8 St a t e s . Go od mo r n i n g, Y ou r Ho no r .
9 MS. ARGUEDAS: And Chr i s Ar guedas f o r Roger Ver
10 t h i s mo r ni ng a nd Roger i s p r e s ent .
11 THE COURT: Goo d mor ni ng. The Cour t has r ead
12 and c ons i der ed t he f ol l owi ng doc ument s - - I ' m s o r r y .
13 Ms . Sa nt o s , di d y ou wa nt t o s t a t e yo ur
14 a ppe ar a nc e .
15 MS. S ANT OS: La ur i e Sa nt o s , US P r o ba t i o n. Go od
16 mo r n i n g, Y ou r Ho no r .
17 THE COURT: Goo d mor ni ng.
18 The Cour t has r ead and c ons i der ed t he pr obat i on
19 r e po r t pr e pa r e d by Ms . Sa nt o s and da t e d Apr i l 23r d,
20 20 02. T he Co ur t h as r e ad a nd c o ns i de r e d t h e
21 Gover nment ' s s ent enci ng memor andum f i l ed May 1, 2002 and
22 t h e Co ur t ha s r ea d a nd c o ns i de r e d t he ev al ua t i o n o f
23 Dr . J ames Mi s s e t t da t ed Apr i l 16t h, 2002. And t he Cour t
24 ha s al s o r e c ei v ed a l e t t e r da t e d Oc t ober 30t h, 2001 by
25 Ky m, K- Y- M, Bar ni ngs , B- A- R- N- I - N- G- S, a c l os e f r i end of
2Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page2 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
3/16
1 t h e De f e nda nt .
2 I di d want t o c l ar i f y one t hi ng bef or e hear i ng
3 f r om c o uns e l a nd f r o m Mr . Ve r a nd t hat i s t ha t
4 Ms . Sa nt o s po i nt e d o ut t o me t hi s mo r n i ng t ha t t he r e i s
5 an er r or i n t he s e nt enc i ng r ec ommendat i on, t hat i f t he
6 Cour t wer e t o adopt a t ot al of f ens e l evel 11, whi c h i s
7 t he agr eed- upon of f ens e l ev el i n t he 11( e) ( 1) ( C) pl ea
8 agr eement , and c r i mi nal hi s t or y c at ego r y 3, whi c h i s t he
9 c r i mi nal hi s t or y c at egor y c al c ul at ed by Pr obat i on, t hen
10 t he appr opr i at e gui del i ne i s t wel v e t o ei ght een mont hs
11 r at her t han t en t o s i x t een.
12 The Cour t c oul d ar r i ve at a t en- t o
13 s i x t e en- mo nt h r an ge by de t e r mi ni ng t ha t t he c r i mi na l
14 hi s t or y i s ov er r epr es ent ed and I ' m open t o t hat . I ' d
15 l i k e t o he ar c o mme nt o n t ha t .
16 The Gov er nment i s r ec ommendi ng a t en- mont h
17 s ent enc e. So I ' v e t ak en t hat i nt o ac count , but I ' d l i ke
18 t o he ar f r o m c o un s el a nd f r o m Mr . Ve r .
19 So Counse l ?
20 MS. ARGUEDAS: I be l i e ve , Y ou r Ho no r , t h at we
21 ar e al l i n agr eement t hat t hat ' s t he way i t s houl d be
22 a r r i v ed a t a nd we al s o ar e as k i ng f o r a t e n- mo nt h
23 s e nt enc e. I don' t k now whet her we nee d t o ex pl i c i t l y
24 r eques t t hi s or i f i t aut omat i c al l y happens , but i n t he
25 t e n- mont h s e nt enc e we' r e as k i ng t hat i t be s er v ed f i v e
3Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page3 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
4/16
1 mo nt h s i n c u s t o dy an d f i v e mo nt h s i n t he ha l f wa y h ou se ,
2 wh i c h i s p er mi s s i bl e unde r z o ne C.
3 THE COURT: Per mi s s i bl e but not r equi r ed.
4 MS. ARGUEDAS: Ri ght .
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MS. ARGUEDAS: I f I need t o s ay mor e about t hat ?
7 THE COURT: I woul d l i ke your t hi nk i ng about
8 t hat par t i c ul ar l y s i nc e Dr . Mi s s e t t and Ms . Sant os s e em
9 t o hav e a di f f er ent v i ew.
10 MS. ARGUEDAS: P r i mar i l y , You r Honor , my
11 r eas oni ng i s t hat t he event s t hat under l i e t hi s o f f ens e
12 happened now a coupl e o f year s ago and he ' s been on
13 pr et r i al - - y ou k now, bai l and been ex t r emel y wel l
14 behaved and he has been do i ng somet h i ng ve r y p r oduc t i ve
15 whi c h i s s t ar t i ng a bus i nes s t hat has t o do wi t h buy i ng
16 a nd se l l i n g c o mpu t e r me mo r y I t h i n k, so me t h i n g t o do
17 wi t h c omput er s . And he' s i t . He i s t he bus i nes s .
18 He may be abl e t o f i nd somebody who can l e t i t
19 no t d i e i f he was go ne f or f i v e mont hs , but i t ' s bec aus e
20 o f h i s k n o wl e dge pe opl e c al l u p o n t he ph on e a nd sa y
21 t hey want a ce r t a i n somet h i ng and he knows t he par t
22 number i n hi s head and he has a webs i t e abou t i t and
23 t hat ' s why he' s abl e t o mak e i t s uc c es s f ul .
24 So who ev er he ge t s t o t r y and t a ke i t o ve r i s
25 onl y goi ng t o be abl e t o k eep i t on l i f e s uppor t f or
4Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page4 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
5/16
1 f i v e mo nt hs a nd t hen I do n' t t hi nk he wo ul d be abl e t o
2 do i t f or t en mont hs . So he' s goi ng t o be on s u per v i s e d
3 r e l eas e, whi c h I t hi nk i s a good t hi ng, and t he ques t i on
4 i s d o we want t o ex t i ngui s h hi s b us i ne s s , and I woul d
5 say t he answer shoul d be no .
6 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Mr . F r ewi ng?
7 MR. FREWI NG: Yes , You r Honor .
8 I mus t s a y I ha d no t e d t he ch ange i n t he - -
9 par don me, t he - - I gues s t he er r or i n t he c al c ul at i on
10 of t he ac t ual s e nt enc i ng r ange pr ev i ous l y and I had
11 br ought i t t o ever yone' s at t ent i on and t hen f ai l ed t o
12 s o r t of r ec al l t hat when I wr ot e my ver y br i ef
13 sen t enc i ng memo yes t e r day .
14 I t hi nk a t en- mont h s ent enc e i n t hi s c as e i s
15 j us t . I t hi nk t he depar t ur e f or t he c r i mi nal hi s t or y
16 over r epr es ent at i on i s n' t obj ec t i onabl e gi ven t hat al l
17 t he ot her of f ens es ar e es s ent i al l y t r af f i c of f ens es .
18 I do have some concer n abou t t he Cour t t hen i n
19 addi t i on dec i di ng t o depar t - - or t o s pl i t t he s ent enc e
20 f o l l owi ng a depar t ur e. I t s eems t o me t hat i s a pr et t y
21 bi g depar t ur e i n t ot al f r om t he ac t ual s ent enc e t hat t he
22 Gui del i nes c al c ul at e.
23 Mr . Ver ' s c onduc t was s er i ous . I t hi nk one
24 f ac t or t hat t he Cour t c an t ak e i nt o c ons i der at i on or at
25 l e as t sh o ul d c o ns i de r i s t h er e we r e so me pi pe bo mbs
5Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page5 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
6/16
1 i nv ol v ed i n t hi s c a s e as wel l t hat wer e not c har ged and
2 ar e not i nc or por at ed i n t he conduc t t hat ' s bef or e t he
3 Co ur t e xc e pt a r gu abl y as r e l e va nt c o nduc t .
4 The s pl i t s ent enc e i s - - woul d r es ul t onl y i n
5 f i ve mont hs i nc ar c er at i on f or what I t hi nk i s a f ai r l y
6 s e r i o us o f f e ns e . I t ' s my r e c omme nda t i on t o do t he
7 t en- mont h s ent enc e i n pr i s on i n t ot al .
8 THE COURT: Thank you.
9 Ms . Sa nt o s?
10 MS. SANTOS: P r oba t i on does s t and by t he
11 r e c omme nda t i o n pr e se nt e d h er e t o t h e Co ur t t o da y, Y ou r
12 Honor .
13 Af t er t a l k i ng wi t h Dr . Mi s s et t he di d bas i c al l y
14 i ndi c at e t hat t he behav i or t hat oc c ur r ed a coupl e of
15 y ear s ago was n' t j us t j uv eni l e behav i or . I t was not
16 j us t i mmat ur e ac t i ons ; t hat appar ent l y Mr . Ve r s t i l l has
17 s o me of t hes e negat i v i s t i c at t i t udes and Dr . Mi s s e t t di d
18 s a y t hat i nc ar c er at i on woul d be mos t a ppr opr i at e as f ar
19 as a sen t ence was concer ned .
20 So P r oba t i on does s t and by t hat r ecommendat i on.
21 THE COURT: Mr . Ve r , you have an oppor t uni t y t o
22 addr es s t he Cour t . I s t her e any t hi ng y ou woul d l i k e t o
23 s a y t hi s mo r ni ng?
24 THE DEF ENDANT: I t hi nk my at t or ney s ummed i t up
25 v er y wel l .
6Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page6 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
7/16
1 THE COURT: Thank you.
2 Wel l , I ' ve gi ven t hi s c as e a l ot of t hought .
3 I ' m v er y t r oubl ed by i t . And when I s a y t hat I ' m
4 t r oubl ed by i t I ' m t r oubl ed by i t i n s ever al ways . Not
5 onl y am I t r oubl e d by t he under l y i ng c onduc t , whi c h i s
6 qui t e s er i ous , but I don' t want t o over r eac t ei t her and
7 I t hi nk t hat ' s what mak es i t har d.
8 I t hi nk i f y ou hav e a c as e whi c h s t r i k es y ou as
9 bei ng par t i c ul ar l y s ever e, i n a way t h at ' s k i nd of an
10 eas y t hi ng t o j us t s ay al l r i ght , we' l l t hr ow t he book
11 at t he def endant and t hat wi l l s at i s f y t hat i mpul s e.
12 Bu t I do n' t t hi nk j u dge s ought t o s ent enc e any bo dy
13 i mpul s i v el y . You ha ve t o l ook at t he of f ens e and y ou
14 h av e t o l o ok a t t h e pe r so n wh o c o mmi t t e d i t .
15 Ther e ar e e l ement s i n t he pr obat i on r epor t and
16 i n Dr . Mi s s e t t ' s r epor t whi c h c onc er n me a gr eat deal .
17 On e h as t o be v er y c a r e f u l . Mr . Ve r , y ou ' r e a y ou ng ma n
18 and y ou' v e l ed a l aw- abi di ng l i f e f or t he l as t t wo y ear s
19 and y ou' v e by al l ac c ount s per f or med wel l on pr et r i al
20 r e l eas e. I di d not e i n your l et t er t hat you ac cept ed
21 t hat y our c onduc t was i l l egal , and I appr ec i at e t hat .
22 I a l s o do n' t i n a ny wa y wa nt t o c onf us e y our
23 pol i t i c al bel i ef s , whi c h you ar e abs ol ut el y ent i t l ed t o
24 ha ve, wi t h y our c r i mi nal c onduc t . The r e ' s a l ong and
25 honor abl e t r adi t i on of l i ber t ar i an pol i t i c s i n our
7Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page7 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
8/16
1 c o unt r y and I don ' t me an t o i n any way ho l d t ha t a ga i ns t
2 you. I t ' s s omet hi ng t hat y ou' r e ent i t l ed t o have.
3 The pr obl em, t hough, i s t hat t he l aw i s a
4 r epr es ent at i on of a ut hor i t y i n a c er t a i n way . Peopl e
5 c a n di s a gr e e a nd t he y c a n di s a gr e e v er y v i go r o us l y and
6 v e r y r e aso n abl y a bo ut wh at o ugh t t o be l e ga l a nd wh at
7 ought not t o be l ega l and how much t he Gover nment ought
8 t o do or ought no t t o do.
9 But t her e i s a poi nt at whi c h we s t ar t t al k i ng
10 a bout publ i c s a f e t y and I t hi nk ev en t he mo s t di e ha r d
11 l i ber t ar i an woul d agr ee t hat one f unc t i on of gov er nment ,
12 i f t her e i s t o be a gover nment , i s t o pr ot ec t publ i c
13 s af et y . So t hen i t ' s j us t a ques t i on of how you do i t ,
14 how y ou do i t i n a way t hat ' s l eas t i nvas i v e of
15 i ndi v i dual l i ber t i es .
16 Sel l i ng expl os i ves over t he I nt er net does n' t c ut
17 i t i n any s oc i et y t hat I c an i magi ne and I t hi nk i t ' s - -
18 t he conduc t her e i s s i mpl y not t ol er abl e c onduc t and
19 i t ' s not - - I don' t t hi nk one has t o be a bi g gov er nment
20 pe r s on or bel i ev e i n gov er nment r egul a t i on of ev er y
21 a s pe c t o f huma n l i f e t o s u gge s t t ha t p eo pl e s h oul d no t
22 be s el l i ng expl os i ves over t he I nt er net .
23 The ot her t hi ng t hat c onc er ns me i s t hat i n
24 l o ok i ng at y our s o c i al hi s t or y i t s e ems t o me y ou' v e got
25 s o me r eas ons f or not t r us t i ng aut hor i t y , and t hat ' s
8Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page8 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
9/16
1 ok ay . I mean, t hos e ar e f eel i ngs t hat a r e a pr oduc t o f
2 your l i f e exper i enc e. Nonet hel es s , t hos e f eel i ngs don' t
3 gi v e y ou t he r i gh t t o be abo ve t he s ame s oc i a l
4 c ons t r ai nt s t hat bi nd al l of us .
5 And I ' m not s ay i ng t hi s as wel l as I ' d l i ke t o,
6 but I t hi nk t her e' s a di f f er enc e bet ween s ay i ng I
7 be l i e ve t h at t h e go ve r n me nt wh i c h go ve r n s be s t go ve r n s
8 l eas t and s ay i ng t hat I ' m abov e t he l aw t ot al l y , t hat
9 I ' m s o s mar t , I ' m s o abl e, I ' m s o per c ept i ve t hat I
10 do n' t hav e t o f ol l ow t he r ul es t hat appl y t o ot her human
11 bei ngs .
12 Ther e' s a di f f er enc e bet ween t hos e t wo
13 po s i t i ons . And whi l e one of t hem i s a v er y r es pec t abl e
14 po s i t i on t hat I t hi nk any j udge ought t o uphol d and
15 s u ppor t r at her t han puni s h , t he ot her I t hi nk i s why we
16 ha ve c our t s . I t ' s when a per s o n bel i e ves t hat he or s he
17 i s s o i mpor t ant a nd s o i nt el l i gent and s o muc h bet t er
18 t h an e ve r y bo dy el s e t ha t t he y do n' t ha ve t o f o l l o w e ve n
19 t he mos t bas i c r ul es t hat k eep us t oget her i n t hi s
20 s oc i et y .
21 I hope and I ac t ual l y s us pec t t hat y ou' v e gr own
22 up a bi t s i nc e you di d t hes e t hi ngs . I don' t k now i f
23 y ou ha ve any de s i r e t o pur s u e t he r a py , t o de al wi t h y our
24 i s s u es a bout y our f a t her and about y our f ami l y of
25 or i gi n. That ' s your c hoi c e, but I t hi nk a l ot o f t he - -
9Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page9 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
10/16
1 a l o t o f t he edge i n t he t hi ngs y o u di d whe n t he s e
2 o f f e ns e s we r e c ommi t t e d I t hi nk ma y be t r a c ed t o t ha t ,
3 a nd t h at i s n o t i n any wa y me an t t o de va l u e t h e
4 pol i t i c al bel i ef s t hat you have.
5 Agai n, I t h i nk one c an have s i nc er e pol i t i c al
6 be l i e f s a nd a l s o hav e s o me pe r s o na l i s s ue s t ha t c a us e a
7 per s on t o do i r r at i onal t hi ngs . Thos e t hi ngs ar e not
8 i nc ons i s t ent and, f r ank l y , I t hi nk t hat ' s what happened
9 h er e .
10 I t hi nk t h at t hes e of f ens es ar e ver y s er i ous .
11 They c oul d have been a l ot mor e s er i ous . The bombs
12 c o ul d ha ve go ne of f o r pe opl e c o ul d ha ve use d t h em i n
13 des t r uc t i v e way s . Sel l i ng bombs t o j uveni l es i s nev er
14 ok ay .
15 I ' d l i ke t o s ay t hat t he f i ve and f i ve s ent enc e
16 t hat y our at t or ne y pr opos e d i s s omet hi ng t hat I ' m
17 c omf or t abl e wi t h, but I j us t c an' t . And i t ' s not a
18 de s i r e t o be o ver l y puni t i v e o r t o s e nd y ou a me s s a ge .
19 I t ' s s i mpl y s ay i ng t hat t hi s c onduc t - - when t he l aw
20 puni s hes behav i or , c r i mi nal l aw i s di r ec t ed at c onduc t .
21 Thi s c onduc t t o me woul d have war r ant ed a muc h
22 s t i f f er s ent enc e t han t en mont hs . Ther e' s a pl ea
23 agr eement . I ' m bound by i t . I ' m not goi ng t o ups et i t .
24 I t wa s a r r i v ed at i n go od f a i t h by t he Go ve r nme nt a nd by
25 t he def ens e and I wi l l r es pec t i t , but I ' m not goi ng t o
10Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page10 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
11/16
1 di l ut e i t .
2 And I t hi nk par t of gr owi ng up and par t of
3 ac cept i ng r es pons i bi l i t y f or what you di d i s r ec ogni z i ng
4 t h at wh en yo u do so me t h i n g t h at ' s t h i s d a nge r o us a n d
5 t hi s ant i - s oc i al t hat t her e i s a s i gni f i c ant c ons equenc e
6 f o r i t .
7 And I c e r t a i nl y do n' t me an t o de va l ue t he
8 e f f o r t s y ou' v e ma de s i nc e t he n o r t he gr o wt h t ha t y ou' v e
9 ex per i enc ed s i nc e t hen. I want t o enc our age i t , but I
10 t hi nk par t of i t i s r e cogni z i ng t hat t hi s i s a bi g deal .
11 Thi s c as e i s not i ns ubs t ant i al and t en mont hs ac t ual l y I
12 t h i nk i n t he s c h eme of t hi ngs i s s o met hi ng o f a br e ak
13 and I t hi nk i t ' s s omet hi ng of a r ec ogni t i on t hat y ou
14 have gr own up, t hat you have accept ed some
15 r es pons i bi l i t y , t hat you don' t have a pr i or c r i mi nal
16 hi s t o r y .
17 But par t i c ul ar l y pos t - 9/ 11 you get c as es l i k e
18 t h i s c o mi ng i n he r e t he Go ve r nme nt i s s e ek i ng t o put
19 pe opl e awa y f o r a l o t l o nge r t h an t e n mo nt h s .
20 So , y ou know, I don' t mi ni mi z e t he ef f ec t s o n y our
21 bus i nes s a nd on y our per s onal l i f e or any t hi ng el s e, but
22 I j us t c an' t i n good c ons c i ous do l es s t han t hat .
23 P ur su a nt t o t h e Se nt e nc i n g Re f o r m Ac t o f 1984,
24 i t i s t he j udgment of t hi s Cour t t hat t he Def endant
25 Ro ge r Ke i t h Ve r i s h er e by c ommi t t e d t o t he c us t o dy of
11Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page11 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
12/16
1 t he Uni t ed St at es Bur eau of P r i s o ns t o be i mpr i s o ned f or
2 a t e r m o f t e n mo nt hs .
3 Upo n r e l e ase f r o m c u s t o dy t he De f e nda nt sh a l l b e
4 pl ac ed on s u per v i s e d r el eas e f or a t er m of t hr ee y ear s .
5 Wi t hi n 72 ho ur s o f r el e as e f r o m c us t ody of t he Bur e au of
6 Pr i s ons t he Def endant s hal l r epor t i n per s on t o t he
7 pr obat i on of f i c e i n t he di s t r i c t t o whi c h t he Def endant
8 i s r el eas ed.
9 Whi l e on s uper v i s e d r el eas e t he Def endant s h al l
10 not c ommi t anot her f eder al , s t at e or l oc al c r i me, s hal l
11 c o mpl y wi t h t he s t an da r d c ondi t i o ns t h at ha ve be en
12 a dopt e d by t hi s Co ur t a nd s h al l c o mpl y wi t h t he
13 f o l l owi ng s pec i al c ondi t i ons : The Def endant s hal l
14 pa r t i c i pa t e i n a men t a l he al t h t r e at me nt pr o gr a m a s
15 di r ec t ed by t he pr obat i on of f i c er .
16 The Def endant i s t o pay par t or al l of t he c os t
17 o f t h i s t r e at me nt i n an amo un t n ot t o ex c e ed $60 pe r
18 s e s s i on as d eemed appr opr i at e by t he pr obat i on of f i c er .
19 P ay me nt s h al l nev er ex c ee d t he t o t a l c o s t o f me nt a l
20 he al t h c ouns e l i ng. The ac t ual c o- pay ment s c hedul e s h al l
21 be det er mi ned by t he pr obat i on of f i c er .
22 The Def endant s hal l s ubmi t hi s per s on,
23 r es i denc e, of f i c e, v ehi c l e or any pr oper t y under hi s
24 c ont r ol t o a s e ar c h. Suc h a s e ar c h s h al l be c onduc t ed
25 by a Uni t ed St at es P r obat i on of f i c er at a r eas onabl e
12Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page12 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
13/16
1 t i me and i n a r easonab l e manner based upon r easonabl e
2 s us pi c i on of c ont r aband or ev i denc e of a v i ol at i on of a
3 c ondi t i on of r el eas e. F ai l ur e t o s ubmi t t o s uc h a
4 se a r c h ma y be gr o und s f o r r e vo c at i o n. T he De f e nda nt
5 s h al l wa r n any r e s i dent s t ha t t he pr emi s e s ma y be
6 s u bj ec t t o s e ar c hes .
7 The Def endant s hal l r ef r ai n f r om ac c es s i ng v i a a
8 c omput er any mat er i a l t hat r el at es t o s el l i ng ex pl os i v es
9 ov er t he I nt er net . The Def endant s h al l not own or
10 po s s es s a ny f i r ea r ms , ammuni t i on, des t r uc t i v e dev i c es o r
11 o t he r d an ge r o us we ap on s . T he De f e nda nt sh a l l pa y a f i ne
12 t h at i s i mpo s ed by t hi s j udgme nt t ha t r e ma i ns u npa i d as
13 di r ec t ed by t he pr obat i on of f i c er .
14 I do agr ee wi t h Mr . F r ewi ng t hat s o me f i ne i s
15 appr opr i at e i n t hi s mat t er bec aus e t he r e was pr of i t f r om
16 s e l l i ng t he e xpl o s i v es a nd Mr . Ve r doe s appe ar t o ha ve
17 t he abi l i t y t o pay a f i ne. I t hi nk i n l i ght o f t he
18 over al l di s pos i t i on of t he c as e t hat I ' m i nc l i ned t o
19 i mpo s e t he s t a t ut o r y mi ni mum f i ne , whi c h i s $2, 000, a nd
20 t hat wi l l be t he or der of t he Cour t .
21 I t i s f ur t her or der ed t hat t he Def endant s hal l
22 pa y t o t he Uni t ed St at e s a s pe c i a l a s s e s s me nt o f $150
23 wh i c h s ha l l be du e i mme di a t e l y .
24 Mr . Ve r , t h e pl e a a gr e eme nt c o nt a i n ed a wa i v er
25 of y our r i ght t o appeal . Howev er , i f you bel i ev e t hat
13Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page13 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
14/16
1 y ou ha ve a ba s i s f or a n a ppe al , a n a ppea l mus t be f i l e d
2 wi t hi n t en day s of t oday .
3 And I ha ve no pr obl em wi t h a s e l f - s u r r ender .
4 Was t her e some di sc uss i on as t o when t hat woul d be?
5 MS. ARGUEDAS: Ni net y days?
6 MR. FREWI NG: No obj ect i on .
7 THE COURT: Wi t hout obj ec t i on. And agai n I
8 t hi nk t hat ' s a c r edi t t o your good per f or manc e on
9 pr et r i al r el eas e.
10 MS. ARGUEDAS: Thank you.
11 THE COURT: The Def endant i s t o r epor t t o t he
12 f a ci l i t y des i gnat ed by t he Bur eau of P r i s o ns on Augus t
13 2nd, 2002 at 9 : 00 a . m.
14 MS. ARGUEDAS: And c oul d yo u r ec ommend L ompoc ?
15 THE COURT: I c an r ec ommend a mi ni mum s ec ur i t y
16 f ac i l i t y i n Cal i f or ni a. Beyond t hat - - e ver y t i me I ' ve
17 t r i ed t o r ec ommend a s pec i f i c f ac i l i t y t o t he BOP I get
18 a no t e f r o m t he m s a y i ng I c a n' t do t ha t .
19 MS. ARGUEDAS: Okay .
20 THE COURT: But I c an r ec ommend a mi ni mum
21 s ec ur i t y f ac i l i t y i n Cal i f or n i a.
22 MS. ARGUEDAS: Al l r i gh t .
23 THE COURT: And t her e' s onl y one of t hos e t hat I
24 know about . Okay?
25 MS. ARGUEDAS: Thank you, Your Honor .
14Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page14 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
15/16
1 MR. FREWI NG: Thank you , Your Honor .
2 MS. SANTOS: Thank you , Your Honor .
3 ( Wh er e up on, t h e pr o c ee di n gs c o nc l u de d. )
4
5 - - - oOo- - -
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
15Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page15 of 16
8/9/2019 Second Ver Hearing Transcript.pdf
16/16
1 CERTI FI CATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 I , Pet er Tor r eano, Of f i c i al Cour t Repor t er of
6 t he Uni t ed St at es Di s t r i c t Cour t f or t he Nor t her n
7 Di s t r i c t o f Cal i f or ni a, 280 Sout h F i r s t St r eet , San
8 J os e, Ca l i f or ni a, do her eby c er t i f y :
9 That t he f or egoi ng t r ans c r i pt i s a f ul l , t r ue
10 and c or r ec t t r ans c r i pt of t he pr oc eedi ngs h ad i n Uni t ed
11 St at e s v . Ve r , Ca s e No . CR- 01- 20127- J F , da t e d Ma y 2,
12 2002; t ha t I r e po r t e d t he s a me i n s t en ot y pe t o t he be s t
13 of my abi l i t y , and t her eaf t er had t he s a me t r ans c r i bed
14 by c omput er - ai ded t r ans c r i pt i on as h er ei n appear s .
15
16
17
18
19 / S/ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
20 PETER T ORREANO, CSR
21 L i cens e Number C- 762321
22
23
24
25
16Case5:01-cr-20127-JF Document35 Filed06/19/14 Page16 of 16
