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VICTORIA

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

FORTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT

FIRST SESSION (1967-68)

11legi.alntiue Q!uuuril nub 11legi.alntiue Assembly

VOL. CCXC.

(From March 5, 1968 to May 1, 1968.)

MELBOURNE: A. C. BROOKS, GOVERNMENT PRINTER.

~

, 'Police' [5 MARCH, 1'968.] Department. '3389

:-1J.jtgislatittt J\sstWbly. Tuesday, March 5, 1968.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie) took the chair at 4.5 p.rn!> and read the prayer.

MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT. QUALIFICATIONS FOR GOLD LIFE PASS.

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Premier-

Whether, further to his reply to question No.2, asked in this House on 27th February last, regarding the suggestion that Victorian members be entitled to a life gold pass after twenty years' service or alternatively after membership in seven Parliaments, he will give an assurance that he will raise the subject at the next Premiers' conference?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The answer is' "no". However, on an occasion such as a Premiers' conference I would canvass the advisability of discussing this item.

POLICE DEPARTMENT. INSPECTORS: NUMBER AND DUTIES.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) asked the Chief Secretary-

How many members of the Victoria Police hold the rank of inspector, and what are their respective duties?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).As the answer to this question consists of a lengthy statement, I seek leave of the House to have it incorporated in Hansard without my reading it.

Leave was granted, and the answer was as follows:-

Inspectors, Grade I. 90 Inspectors, Grade II. 14

Duties,

UNIFORM INSPECTORS. Divisional officers . . . . Officer in sub-charge of divisions Administration, supervision and

relieving duties . . . . Officer assisting Licensing Court City Court prosecutors Directing Staff Police' College Traffic Control Branch duties Chief technical officer .. Research and planning officer

Session 1968.-127

TOTAL 104

Grade Grade I. II.

42 1 3 4

16 6 1 2 4 5 1 1 1

Duties.

UNIFORM INSPECTORS. Public relations officer Officedn charge, Training Division,

Police Depot Officer in charge, Transport Branch Officer in charge, Communications

Section Officer in charge, Fingerprint

Records Section Secretary, Police Association

(Salary and allowances recouped from Association)

CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION BRANCH INSPECTORS.

Administration duties .. District detective inspectors Officer in charge, Crime Squads Officer in charge, Fraud Squads Officer in charge, Homicide Squad Officer in charge, Forensic Science

Laboratory ..

TOTALS

Grade Grade I.' II.

1

1 6 1 1 1

1

90114 Inspectors are directly responsible to their

superintendents for the supervision and control of members of the Force placed immediately under their charge.

Divisional officers are also responsible to their superintendents in relation to all matters occurring in their division such as prevention of crime, police requirements, patrols, inspection of police stations and station records and authorization of briefs in relation to alleged offences. Where circumstances warrant, an inspector acts as officer in sub-charge of a division to assist the divisional officer.

In addition, in some districts an inspector is attached to the district headquarters to assist in carrying out general supervision and administrative duties and to relieve divisional officers as required. This category also includes the duty officers attached to Melbourne district who carry out general supervision duties, take charge of police at demonstrations, fires, disasters, processions, sporting events, &c., in the metropolitan area, and are responsible for ensuring that appropriate action is taken by police as circumstances require.

TRAFFIC BLITZES. Mr. WILKES (North cote) asked

the Chief Secretary-1. Whether he is satisfied that the high

concentration of police in the metropolitan area during recent traffic blitzes had the desired effect of eliminating dangerous driving and effecting a consequent reduction in road accidents?

2. Whether he has given consideration to a high concentration of traffic police on Stat~ highways or main roads at various times in an endeavour to reduce the road toll on these roads?

3390 Free Library [ASSEMBLY.] Services.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).The answers are--

I. It is impossible to assess the value of traffic enforcement drives in eliminating dangerous driving and the prevention of accidents, but experienced police officers are convinced that these special efforts act as an effective deterrent to motorists and that the benefits last for some time.

2. In recent years, police have used this means of traffic control by concentrating patrols, particularly during week-ends, on prinCipal highways which have a bad accident record for fatal accidents, and experienced police officers are satisfied that these measures are effective. Perhaps the measures have not been as effective as the police would like, but they could be considered to have been relatively effective.

ASSAULTS IN MOONEE PONDS: ARRESTS.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Chief Secretary-

How many people have reported assaults on their person in the district of Moonee Ponds in the past twelve months, and how many arrests have been made in respect of the above assaults?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).The answer is-

Forty-seven persons reported assaults, and 31 persons were arrested in respect of these assaults.

FREE LIBRARY SERVICES. SUBSIDIES.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. What maximum grants and/or subsidies are available to municipalities in respect of free library services with' regard to metropolitan municipal libraries, country municipal libraries, children's libraries, regional library development, and rural library establishment, respectively, and when these maximum amounts were last increased?

2. In each of the above categories-( a) what is the basis of the grant; (b) what are the conditions of the grant; and (c) when the last increase or variation in the basis of conditions was made?

3. What bodies are so subsidized in the Legislative Assembly electoral district of Sunshine, giving the subsidy paid in each case?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).Honorable members will recall I suggested that the answers to these questions should be given in the form of a return. However, the honorable member for Sunshine preferred the

matter to be dealt with as a Question on Notice. As the answers consist of lengthy statements, I ask leave of the House to have them incorporated in Hansard without my reading them.

Leave was granted, and the answers were as follows:-

1 and 2. (a) MUNICIPAL LIBRARIES SUBSIDy-METRO

POLITAN AND COUNTRY. (i) The maximum subsidy varies and

depends upon the council contribution and on population.

(ii) The last increase in the total subsidy was made in the 1967-68 financial year.

(iii) The basis and the conditions of the subsidy are as follows-

$1 for $1 in respect of the council's contribution up to a maximum of 40 cents per head of population in metropolitan municipalities and 50 cents per head of population in country municipalities. (iv) The last variation in the basis of

the conditions was made:-(a) for metropolitan municipal libraries

in financial year 1958-59, and (b) for the country municipal libraries

in the financial year 1962-63. (b) COUNTRY FREE LIBRARIES GRANT.

(i) The maximum grant is $18,000. (ii) There has been no increase in the

amount of the grant. (iii) The basis and conditions of the

grant are-(a) Councils directly operating muni

cipal libraries. Provided that the library has been

established for at least one full year, the amount is based on the council's own contribution with a ceiling which varies from year to year according to the number of libraries participating. (b) Non-municipal libraries in receipt

of some financial aid from councils. (i) $1 for each $1 contributed to the

library. by the local council during the previous calendar year.

(ii) $1 for each $1 received by the library during the previous calendar year as a donation from any source other than the council and excluding readers' subscriptions. A proviso to the formula is that the minimum council contribution in (i) above is $6.

(iv) There has been no variation to these conditions. (c) CHILDREN'S FREE LIBRARIES GRANT.

(i) The maximum grant is $10,000. (ii) The last increase in the grant was

made in the financial year 1954-55. (iii) Conditions of the grant are- .

(a) Councils directly operating mumcipal libraries.

Western [5 MARCH, 1968.] Highway. 3391

All councils operating children's libraries within their municipal library to library services division standards receive an equal share of the allocation. (b) Non-municipal libraries in receipt

of some financial aid from councils. Allocations are made on the same

basis as the grant to non-municipal country free libraries subject to a variable ceiling.

(iv) There has been no variation to the basis of conditions .. (d) RURAL MUNICIPAL LIBRARY ESTABUSH

MENT AND REGIONAL LmRARY DEVELOPMENT GRANT.

(i) The maximum grant is $50,000. (ii) The last increase was made in the

financial year 1966-67. (iii) The basis and conditions of the

grant are:-(a) Establishment grant.

This grant is allocated once only to non-metropolitan municipalities in the first year of the establishment of the library.

The basis of the allocation varies according to the number of municipalities establishing libraries in anyone year. (b) Regional library grant.

This grant is made to municipalities in which the central library of a regional library service is located. The grant is to be expended for the benefit of the region as a whole and is a variable amount allocated to a region on its individual merits.

(iv) There has been no variation to the basis of the conditions.

3. Altona shire .. Footscray city Sunshine city ..

$9,993. $17,500. $27,632.

WESTERN HIGHWAY. DUPLICATION AT BALLARAT EAST.

Mr. A. T. EVANS (Ballaarat North) asked the Minister of Public Works-

1. What conditions are demanded by the Victorian Railways Commissioners in reply to the Country Roads Board's request to construct an under-pass for the continuation of the duplication of the Western Highway at Ballarat East?

2. What is the estimated cost of the under-pass under the conditions laid down by the Railways Commissioners?

3. Whether he will seek an independent engineering report on the need for the carrying out of the conditions as demanded by the Railways Commissioners?

4. Whether he will convene and preside at a meeting with the Minister of Transport, the Country Roads Board, and the Railways Commissioners in an endeavour to arrive at the most practical solution to this problem?

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The answers are-

1. If the duplication of the Western Highway at Ballarat East is carried out by means of a road under rail under-pass it will be necessary for the safe working of the railway on the existing rising grade from Ballarat to the east to provide a temporary bank and bridge while work under the present railway line is carried out.

2. Preliminary estimates indicate that duplication by the means indicated in the answer to question No. 1 would cost in the order of $1,000,000.

3. This is not considered to be necessary. 4. This is not considered to be necessary.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

PuMPING OF WATER FROM YARRA RIVER: PERMITS: RESTRICTIONS

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) asked the Minister of Public Works, for the Minister for Local Government-

How many permits have been issued by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works to pump water from the Yarra river, indicating, in each case-( a) to whom the permit was issued; (b) the cost of the permit; and (c) what total volumes of water are involved?

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer to this question supplied by the Minister for Local Government consists of several detailed schedules. Therefore, I ask leave of the House to have it incorporated in Hansard without my reading it.


The number of permits currently operative is 86.

(a) The particulars of each permit including the name of the holder are set out in the first schedule hereto.

(b) Copies of the scale of annual charges for authority to take or pump water from the river are as set out in the second schedule hereto.

(c) In the cases of domestic and stock, general irrigation and market garden uses, the quantities of water actually used are not recorded. For domestic and stock use the charge is related to each diversion and for general irrigation and market garden uses the charge is based on the acreage involved.

The schedule referred to in (a) shows the quantities of water used during the year 1966-67 for industrial, condensing or cooling purposes. .

Holder.

AInia Wool Scouring Pty. Ltd ...

Australian Paper Manufacturers Pty .. Ltd.

Geo. Pizzey and Son Ltd.

_D~op Rubber Aust. Ltd.

Scotch College Council, Scotch College

H. R. Petty and Co. Pty. Ltd.

W~ Saunders and Son Pty. Ltd.

Scotch College Council, Scotch -: . College' Tweedside ManufaCturing Co. Pty.

Ltd. M:r. C. Michailidis

"The Ptovincial Bursar, Christian Brothers" Mater Dei" Novitiate

-Mr. J. R. Marriott

Yeast Co. of Aust. Pty. Ltd ..

Mr. D. Vernier

Convent of Good Shepherd

Ivanhoe Public Golf Course

Mr. J. Kemelfield.

Mcphersons Pty. Ltd ...

FIRST SCHEDULE.

Location. Purpose.

Victoria-street, Abbotsford Wool scouring ..

Bright-street, South Melbourne . . Manufacturing

River and Clark streets, Richmond Manufacturing

Trennery-crescent, Abbotsford

Glenferrie-road, Hawthorn

Condensing or cooling and for industrial purposes

Swimming pool. . .

Templestowe .. Irrigation, orchard

Trennery-crescent, Abbotsford .. I Condensing

. Glenferrie-road, Hawthorn

Victoria-crescent, Abbotsford

Irrigation

Manufacturing ..

Rear of' 6 Young-street, Kew .. I Irrigation, market garden

Bonds-road, Lower Plenty

Willsmere and Kilby roads, Kew

Yarra-street, South Yarra

Templestowe-road, Heidelberg

Abbotsford

The Boulevard, Ivanhoe

Lower Templestowe

Irrigation, domestic

Domestic

Cooling

garden and

Irrigation, market garden ..

Irrigation, garden

Irrigation

Stock and domestic

At Burnley, near Victoria bridge I Cooling

• Minimum Charge.

1966-67. Quantity of Water Supplied. Area Supplied., _____________ _

}

Up to 46 acres

Up to 20 acres

Up to 2 acres

Up to 20 acres

Up to 11 acres

Up to 15 acres

Up to 3 acres

Cooling.

Gallons.

255,764,000

22,200,000

25,000,000

20,000,000

Industrial.

Gallons.

26,426,000

3,336,000

11,986,000

15,597,000

Cost.

$

228.47

10.00·

40.00

188.00 108.19

5.00·

26.00

71.50

'13.00

138.27

6.00·

13.00

2.00

72.50

8.50

10.50

6.00·

2.00

70.00

.W w :lS

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Holder.

,Mr., G., Negri ..

Mr. G. Negri ..

Convent of the Good Shepherd ..

Mr. H. F. Yuncken

Mr. H. J. Nicholas

Vickers Ruwolt Pty. Ltd

Yarra, Bend, National Park Trust

Cyclone Forgings Pty. Ltd.

The Kew, Golf Club

~. C. C. ,Bailey

Mr. C. Csutoros

Mrs. M. A. Dodd

Mr. K. A. Homer

Greenacres Golf Club

,Mx. G· I:J. ~J~yens .... Heidelberg Golf Club

Latrobe Golf Club

FiRsT SCHEoULE-continued.

Location.

Templestowe ..

Templestowe ..

Abbotsford

Cnr. Bonds-road and Clevelandavenue, Lower Plenty

Lower Plenty ..

Victoria-street, Richmond

Yarra Bend National Park

Abbotsford

Purpose.



Irrigation

Stock and domestic

Irrigation of gardens and lawns

Cooling

Irrigation of gardens and lawns

Manufacturing ..

Cnr. Belford and Kilby roads, Kew I Irrigation of golf course ..

15 Riverside-road, Ivanhoe

Templestowe-road, Bulleen

Rosehill-road" Lower Plenty

Sweeney's-lane, Eltham

Irrigation, orchard

Irrigation

Domestic

Irrigation

North of Wattle-grove, and west Irrigation of golf course .. of Belford-road, North Kew

At the comer of Bulleen-road and . Irrigation, mark.e~ gar.de~._ .. BilOkSfa-street, North Balw}rn'

Lower Plenty.. Irrigation of golf course ..

Farm-road, Alphington Irrigation of golf course ..

'.. Minimum":Charge.',

1966-67. Quantity of Water Supplied.

Area Supplied. 1 ______ ----:-__ -:-:--__ _

Up to 4 acres

Up to 2 acres

Up to 10 acres

Up to 2 acres

Up to 70 acres

Up to 30 acres

Upto!of an acre

Up to 28 acres

Up to 3 acres

Up to 38 acres

Cooling.

Gallons.

15,000,000

Industrial.

Gallons.

600,000

Cost.

$

6.00*

6.00*

8.00

2.00

6.00*

55.00

3S.oo 10.oq*

18.00

6.00*

17.00

2.00

6.00* . \ }

22,,00

Up _.to, 2 I .. ,

acres •• , .. _. __ ... _L ~~ • .QQ* _

Up to 45 acres

Up to 50 acres

25.50

28.00

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FiRsT SCHEDULE-continued.

I Holder. Location. Purpose.

Mr. J. E. Nason .. .. " Malakand ", Rosehill - road, Domestic .. .. Lower Plenty

Mr. V. C. Burston .. .. Eltham .. .. .. Irrigation .. .. Mr. R. F. Henderson, c/o Hender-

son Seed Co. Lower Templestowe .. .. Irrigation .. ..

Nortex Pty. Ltd. .. .. Templestowe-road, Templestowe Irrigation, 50 acres general,

Mr. J. W. Morrison .. .. Templestowe .. .. 3 acres market garden

.. Irrigation .. .. Messrs. L. R. and G. E. Turner .. Templestowe .. .. .. I Irrigation .. .. Mr. J. Aumann .. .. Homestead-road, Templestowe .. Irrigation, orchard .. Mr. E. A. Daws .. .. Ellen-grove, Templestowe .. Irrigation, garden .. Textile Cones and Tubes Pty. Ltd. Templestowe-road, Doncaster .. Industrial .. .. Blessed Sacrament Fathers Semi- Bonds-road, Lower Plenty .. Irrigation .. ..

'nary of Christ the King Mr. D. Vernier .. .. Templestowe-road, Bulleen .. Irrigation, market garden ..

Mr. H. M. Ch. De Crespigny .. " View Bank Farm ", in Banyule- Irrigation .. .. Mrs. E. M. Benjamin .. .. road, Heidelberg

"Menlo ", cnr . Atkinson and Irrigation .. .. Mahony streets, Lower Temple-stowe

Mr. N. J. Tanner .. .. Lots 8 and Templestowe

9, Dellas-avenue, Irrigation, garden .. Mr. D. Negri .. .. .. Off Greenway-street, Bulleen .. Irrigation, market garden ..

Mr. I. McInnes .. .. Bonds-road, Lower Plenty .. Domestic .. .. Carey Baptist Grammar School .. I Off Bulleen-road, Doncaster .. Irrigation of playfields ..

• Minimum Charge.

196~7. Quantity of Water Supplied.

Area Supplied.

Cooling. Industrial.

Gall,ons. Gallons.

.. .. . . Up to 5 .. ..

acres Up to 56 .. ..

acres Up to 53 .. . .




acres Up to 1! .. . .

acres .. .. . .

Up to 20 .. . . acres

Up to 5 .. . . acres

Up to 65 .. .. acres

Up to 2 .. .. acres

Up to 1! .. . . acres

Up to 6 .. .. acres

. . .. .. Up to 34 .. ..

acres I

Cost.

$

2.00

6.00·

31.00

34.00

8.00

7.00

7.00

6.00·

10.00·

13.00

6.50

35.50

6.00·

6.00·

7.00

2.00

20.00

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Holder.

Mr. R. S. Thomson

Carba Dry Ice (Aust.) Pty. Ltd.

Mr. J. Corrie ..

Mr. J. A. Hodgson

Mr. H. J. Nicholas

Rosanna Golf Oub

Camberwell Council

Dr. M. V. Clarke

Textile Cones and Tubes Pty. Ltd.

Lower Heidelberg Public Golf Links Pty. Ltd.

Melbourne Council, Town Hall, Melbourne (Electricity Supply Dept.)

Mr. D. Matthews

Marist Brothers Provincial House

H. R. Petty and Co. Pty. Ltd.

Mr. S. Mercuri

Australian Paper Manufacturers Ltd.

Miss G. Vaughan-Johnson

FIRST SCHEDULE-continued.

Location.

11 Riverside-road, Ivanhoe

679-681 Victoria-street, Abbotsford

Bonds-road, Lower Plenty

Porter-street, Templestowe

" Yarrowee ", Rosehill - road, Lower Plenty

Cleveland-road, Lower Plenty

Off Bulleen-road, Camberwell

1 Waterdale-road, Ivanhoe

Templestowe-road, Bulleen

Yarra Boulevard, Heidelberg ..

Near Kings Bridge, Melbourne ..

Banoon-road, Eltham ..

Bulleen-road, Bulleen ..

Off Homestead-road, Templestowe

24 Young-street, Kew

Fairfield

Irrigation

Irrigation

Domestic

Purpose.

Irrigation, orchard

Irrigation

Irrigation of golf course ..

Irrigation of playing areas

Irrigation

Irrigation of gardens

Irrigation of golf course ..

Cooling

Irrigation

Irrigation of ovals

Irrigation, orchard


Manufacturing ..

Lot 7, Laughing Waters-road, I Domestic Eltham

·~um Charge

1966-67. Quantity of Water Supplied.

Area Supplied., ______ --;-_____ _ Cost.

Upto!of an acre

Up to 2 acres

Up to 15 acres

Up to 5 acres

Up to 35 acres

Up to 20 acres

Up to ! an acre

Up to 1 acre

Up to 36 acres

Up to 4, acres

Up to 26 acres

Up to 44 acres

Up to 3 acres

Cooling.

Gallons.

7,370,000,000

} 12,863,~,000

Industrial.

Gallons. $

6.00·

6.00·

2.00

10.50

6.00·

20.50

13.00

6.00·

6.00·

21.00

2,152.50

6.00·

16.00

25.00

6.00·

.. 11,025.75 939,080,000 7,830.88

.. 2.00

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FIRsT SCHEDULE-continued.

Holder. Location. Purpose.

, '

Mr. -Y. S. Strangio .. ., 21 Park-crescent, Fairfield .. Irrigation .. Guide Dogs for the Blind Associa- Off Chandler Highway, Kew

tion .. Irrigation ..

Mr. W. Cuthbertson .. .. 15 Atkinson-street, Templestowe Domestic .. Dr. L. Skues .. .. .. Rosehill-road, Lower Plenty .. Domestic . . Mr. F. H. Pizzey .. .. 7 Atkinson-street, Templestowe .. Domestic and stock

Mr. R. B. Crow .. .. 33 Dellas-avenue, Templestowe .. Domestic and stock

Mr. J. Ford .. .. .. 3 The Esplanade, Fairfield · . Domestic .. Mr. N. F. Wighton .. .. Templestowe-road, Lower Temple- Domestic and stock

stowe Mr., E. L. Newbigin .. .. McLachlan-street, Templestowe .. Domestic and stock

Eltham Lower Park Committee .. Lower Eltham Park .. .. Irrigation of ovals

Mr. J. C. Fleming .. .. The Boulevard, Heidelberg .. Irrigation .. Mr. C. M. Johnston .. .. Fitzsimons-lane, Templestowe · . Irrigation .. Mr~ A. W. Ramsay .. . . Dellas-avenue, Templestowe .. Domestic and stock

Mr. C. Woolley .. .. The Boulevard, East Ivanhoe · . Irrigation .. State Electricity Commission of Richmond Power Station .. Condensing .. , Victoria Vinegar Co. of Aust. .. .. Victoria-street, Abbotsford · . Condensing .. Carba Dry Ice (Aust.) Pty. Ltd ... Abbotsford . . .. · . Condensing . .

• Minimum Charge.

I 1966-67. Quantity of Water Supplied.

Area Supplied.

Cooling. Industrial.

Gallons. Gallons.

.. Up to 1 .. .. acre

.. Up to 4 .. . . acres

.. .. .. . . ,

.. . . .. · .

.. .. .. . .

.. .. .. . .

.. .. .. · "

.. .. .. . ...

.. .. .. . .

.. Up to 6 ., · . acres

.. Up to 35 .. · " acres

.. Up to 16 .. ", acres

.. .. .. ",

.. Up to 30 . . . . acres

.. .. 3,606,850,000 . .

.. .. 1,200,000 . .

.. . . 600,000 ..

~,

Cqst.

... ' $

,6.00·

6.00·

2.00

2.00

2.00

2.00

2.00

2.00,

2.00

6.00,

20.50

11.00

2.00

18.00

1,357.90 ,

10.00

5.00·

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Melbourne ·and. Metropolitan

SECOND SCHEDULE.' Melbourne and Metropolitan'

Board of Works.

Scale of. Annual C.harges ·for Authority to Take or Pump Water Under Permits or Licences. .

From all streams within the metropolis as defined under the Melbourne and MetroPolitan Board of Works Acts.

(Note:-All permits expire on the 30th June, and the authority to take or pump lapses unless renewed prior to that date.)

1. Domestic and Stock Use. Each diversion

2. General Irrigation. Any area not exceeding

acres Each' additional acre over

acres

3. Market Gardens.

six

six

Any area not exceeding four acres

Each additional acre over four acres

4. Industrial Purposes. (a) Quantities not exceeding

five million gallons. Every one million gallons

Per annum. $

2.00

6.00

0.50

6.00

0.50

or part thereof .. 10.00 (b) Quantities exceeding five

million gallons. (i) The first million

gallons 50.00 (ii) Quantities over five million

gallons-.833 of a cent per 1,000 gallons.

5. Condensing or Cooling Purposes. (For water taken from a river or creek

and returned to it in a condition unaltered except for . heating.)

Per annum. (a) Quantities not exceeding five $

million gallons. Every one million gallons or

part thereof . . . . 5.00

(b) Quantities exceeding five million gallons and not exceeding twenty million gallons.

(i) The first five million gallons

(ii) Every one million gallons or part thereof over five million gallons and not exceeding twenty million gallons

(c) Quantities exceeding twentY million gallons and not exceeding one thousand million gallons.

25.00

3.00

B(jard:of;.~W,otks. 339J~

. Per annum. (i) The first twerity $

million gallons ... 70 . 00 (ii) Every 'million gal

lons or' . part thereof over twenty million gallons and not exceeding one thousand million gallons 0.50

(d) Quantities exceeding one thousand million gallons.

(i) The first one thousand million gallons 560.00

(ii) Every million gallons or part thereof over one thousand million gallons 0.25

6. The initial preparation of all new permits

7. The preparation of a permit resulting from a transfer ..

4.00

2.00

Measurements of volume in each case to be by meter approved of by the Board or as may be otherwise determined by the Board.

(Note:-Supply and installation of meter or other apparatus to be at the cost of the user in every case.)

H. J. SNADDEN, Secretary.

110 Spencer-street, Melbourne, C.l. 10th August, 1966.

MELBOURNE HARBOR TRUST. LONG SERVICE LEAVE REGULATIONS.

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East) asked the Minister of Public W orks-

Whether, as the long service leave provision relating to the Melbourne Harbor Trust does not provide for pro rata payment on account of pressing domestic necessity, he will suggest that the regulations be amended to include this provision, thus bringing them into line with both Commonwealth and State long service leave conditions?

. Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer is-

The provisions of the Melbourne Harbor Trust long service regulations compare favourably with those of the State Public Officers (Long Service Leave) Act. Consideration is, however, at present being given to minor points of variation, including that raised by the honorable member for Brunswick East.

3398 . Public Works [ASSEMBLY.] Department.

"PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. ARTHUR RYLAH RESEARCH IN-

STITUTE: PAYMENTS TO SUB-CONTRACTORS: TENDERS: CON-TRACTS HELD BY SUCCESSFUL TENDERER.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote), asked the Minister of Public Works-

1. (a) Who are the sub-contractors mvolved in the construction work on the Arthur Rylah Research Institute, and what were their particular contracts; (b) whether they have been paid for work completed, and at what date; and (c) what progress payments have been made to the prime contractor up to the 28th February, 1968?

2. Whether the Public Works Department entered into any contract or agreement with the prime contractor to remove spoil already excavated from the site; if so, with whom, what are the terms of the agreement and/or contract, and what are the amounts of spoil involved?


1. (a) The sub-contractors and their particular contracts, are---

Belsair Proprietary Limited-mechanical services.

K. J. Dupuy-electrical services. Gwillim and Charlton Proprietary Limited

-lift installation. Frankipile Australia Proprietary Limited

piling foundation. May-Oatway Fire Alarms Proprietary

Limited-fire alarm system. (b) The only sub-contract work com

pleted to date is the piling. Payment for work done by Frankipile Australia Proprietary Limited has been included in progress payments made to the main contractor.

(c) Up to the 28th February, 1968, the total of progress payments made to the main contractor was $34,691.

2. The main contractor was requested to remove spoil already excavated from the site, but following removal of approximately 230 yards the arrangement was terminated. Failing agreement on the rate offered for removal, the balance of approximately 2,000 yards is being removed by the day labour section of the Civil Engineering Branch.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) asked the Minister of Public Works-

1. When tenders were called for the construction of the Arthur Rylah Research Institute to be built for the Fisheries and Wildlife Department at Brown-street, Heidelberg?

2. (a) Who were the tenderers who tendered for the job, and what were the amounts tendered; and (b) who was the successful tenderer?

3. (a) When work commenced on this project; (b) what stage of construction this building has reached; and (c) whether work is continuing on the project by the prime contractor; if not, by whom?

4. What contracts let by the Public Works Department to the prime contractor have been completed by him, what were the amounts, and where the jobs were located?


1. Tenders were called in July, 1967, and closed on 15th August.

2. (a) Johns & Reid Pty. Ltd. Alert Constructions Pty.

Ltd. Hannah Builders Pty. Ltd. L. U. Simon Pty. Ltd. .. A. J. Galvin Pty. Ltd. " Clements Langford Pty.

Ltd. D. A. Constructions Pty.

Ltd. I. M. Delbridge (Builders)

Pty. Ltd. .. H. F. Yunken pty. Ltd. Keith G. Hooker Pty. Ltd. McDougall-Ireland Pty.

Ltd. T. W. Morris & Son Pty.

Ltd. Lawson & Laughlin Pty.

Ltd. A. V. Jennings Industries

(Australia) Ltd. Fulton Constructions Pty.

Ltd. W. J. Cody & Quinn Pty.

Ltd. P. M. Versteegen & Sons

Pty. Ltd.

$ 712,524

716,260 721,332 725,000 737,995

746,500

750,545

752,901 755,391 757,391

760,789

763,214

763,380

764,000

769,825

777,456

798,440 W. Fiedler Pty. Ltd. (late

tender) 723,840 (b) Messrs Johns & Reid Pty. Ltd.

3. (a) The contractor's advice was that work commenced on 3rd November, 1967.

(b) Pile foundations have been completed and concreting for general footings has begun.

(c) Work has stopped at the present time. Negotiations are pending with regard to resumption of work.

4. These contracts were as under:Carlton-Old Children's Hospital; reno

vations; $14,648. Richmond Technical School; erection of

new class-rooms; $160,474. Mont Park Mental Hospital; industrial

therapy block; $65,960. Malmsbury Youth Training Centre; edu

cation block; $167,932. Box Hill Boys Technical School; new

workshop block; $249,902. Box Hill High School; additional block;

$424,998. (Minor works only to be completed. )

Housing Commission. [5 MARCH, 1968.] Nattlrai ··Gas. 3399

Turnover with the Public Works Department, exclusive of work with other interests, during 1966-67 was $741,000 on the basis of claims passed for payment.

HOUSING COMMISSION. LAND DEVELOPMENT AT SUNSHINE

WEST.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Housing-

Whether the Housing Commission has approved plans for the development of the area west of the Kororoit creek and north of the land occupied by the Gas and Fuel Corporation in Sunshine West; if so, whether he will make available a co~y of the plans; if not, when the CommIssion proposes dealing with this matter?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The answer is-

Plans have not yet been approved. The Commission proposes to deal with the

matter immediately upon finalization of current negotiations for purchase of an area of 34 acres abutting its land. The acquisition of this land will enable a more effective development of the whole area.

LONE-PERSON FLATS AT MOONEE PONDS.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Housing-

When construction is expected to commence on the 44 lone-person flats to be erected in conjunction with the extension of shop premises in Puckle-street, Moonee Ponds, on land donated by the City of Essendon?


Certain legal aspects require clarification but it is anticipated thl:\.t construction will commence during the 1968-69 financial year.

QUALIFICATIONS FOR RENTAL OR PURCHASE.


Whether it is necessary to be a naturalized Australian citizen to be eligible to qualify to rent or purchase a Housing Commission flat or house?


There is no restriction in regard to submission of applications by non-British persons provided that they are residing. in Victoria and meet the usual eligibility requirements in relation to income, family, &c.

LONE-PERSON FLATS: OUTSTANDING ApPLICATIONS: WAITING TIMES OF ApPLICANTS.


How many lone-person flat applications: were outstanding as at 31st January, 1968. how long an applicant usually has to wait, and whether there is any age limit on an applicant?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Hous-ing) .-The answer is-

Metropolitan, 2,210. Country, 508. Waiting times can be several years.

However, where council nomination of tenants is involved as a result of a gift of land by the council to the Housing Commission for lone-person flat construction, the preference enjoyed by local applicants can reduce waiting periods considerably at the time the new flats first become available.

No age limit is imposed but applicants are required, prior to taking up tenancy, to submit medical evidence of their ability to live alone and care for themselves.

NATURAL GAS. AGREEMENT BETWEEN PRODUCERS

AND DISTRIBUTORS.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power-

When the agreement between producers and distributors of natural gas will be finalized, and on what date it is expected copies of this document will be available for inspection by members of Parliament?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-1 am unable to give the honorable member any information additional to that contained in the reply which 1 gave him last week.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. COMPOSITE FEES: VOLUNTARY

SUBSCRIPTIONS.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Education-

1. Whether the practice of imposing' a composite fee is operating in any high school in the . metropolitan area; if so(a) what schools; (b) what composite fee is fixed at each; and (c) for what purposes generally such fees are applied?

34QO ," .. 'Education, [ASSEMBLY~]: , Department.

2. Whether, in addition, a voluntary subs,cription practice or levy is operating in any high school in the metropolitan area; if so -(a) what schools; (b) what subscription is. 'sought at each; and (c) for, what purposes generally such subscriptions are applIed?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour ~nd Industry).-The answers supplied by the Minister .of Education are-" 1., (a) Every high school has a composite fee.

(b) This varies from school to schoolaverage about $9-$10.

(c) Library, sport, medical supplies, paper hand-towels, &c.

2. (a) Over 50 per cent. of/high schools have a voluntary subscription.

(b) Usually $1-$3. (c) Grounds development, assembly

halls, &c., (usually major projects.) The Department does not record informa

tion on these matters as they are a matter for the schools and advisory councils and practices vary from school to school. The figures and information given above can be taken as rough averages.

SCHOOLS IN DEER PARK ELECTORATE: UNFILLED TEACHING POSITIONS.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Education-

In respect of each of the following schools:-(a) State schools-4744 Sunshine

The unfilled advertised positions were:-

School.

Heights, 4265 Albion, 4848 Ardeer, 1434 Deer Park, 2969 St. Albans, 4741 St. Albans East, 4811 St. Albans North, 4738 Parklands, 4849 Niddrie, 4708 Doutta Galla, 4877 Keilor Heights, 4969 Milleara, 4812 Avondale, 1102 Braybrook, 4745 Sunshine North, 4855 Albion North; (b) High schools -Sunshine, Sunshine West, Braybrook, St. Albans, Niddrie, Keilor Heights; and (c) Technical schools-Sunshine North, St. Albans, Niddrie-what are the unfilled permanent positions which were advertised in 1967 indicating-(i) the number of special class and class I., II., III. and IV. positions, respectively; and (ii) whether the unfilled positions are for men or women?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-The answer supplied by the Minister of Education, as could be expected from the nature of the question, is in the form of a statistical table which would be difficult to read. Therefore, I seek leave of the House to have it incorporated in Hansard without my reading it.


Men. Women.

Spl. I. II. III. IV. Spl. I. II. III. IV. ------------------1--------------------4744 Sunshine Heights '4265 Albion ' ,4878 Ardeer 1434 Deer Park '2969 St. Albans 4741 St. Albans East 4811 St. Albans North '4738 Parklands 4849 Niddrie 4708 Doutta Galla .. 4877 Keilor Heights 4969 Milleara 4812 Avondale 1102 Braybrook 4745 Sunshine North ,4855 Albion North .. Sunshine High School 'Sunshine West High School .. Braybrook High School St. Albans High School lNiddrie High School .. 'Keilor Heights High School .. 'Sunshine North Technical School : St: Albans Technical School Niddrie Technical School

1

2

.. 3

3 1 1 1 1 1

2 1 1

3 2 1 1

1

1 1 2

1 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 1

2

Railway ..... '. " [S MARCH, 1968.] Department. 340f

PROPOSED KEILOR HEIGHTS HIGH SCHOOL: LAND PURCHASE: TENDERS.


1. Whether the Education Department has finalized the purchase of land for the construction of Keilor Heights High School; if so, when it is expected that tenders will be called for the construction of this school?

2. In the event that no date can be given, whether this school is on the building programme for this financial year?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-The answers supplied by the Minister of Education are-

1 and 2. Yes. The erection of the Keilor Heights High School ·is included in the Department's building programme, but its priority is such that tenders will not be called this financial year.

RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. LEVEL CROSSINGS AT SHEPPARTON.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Shepparton) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. Whether the Inter-departmental Committee on Abolition of Level Crossings has proposed that an over-pass be built at High-street, Shepparton; if so-(a) what is the estimated cost of the proposed overpass; and (b) whether delays due to the shunting across the High-street crossing ~onstituted one of the main arguments for the erection of the over-pass?

2. Whether it would be possible to shunt clear of the High-street crossing?

3. Whether the crossing is considered dangerous; if so, what is the accident record of this crossing?

4. Whether the installation of boom gates at the High-street and Fryers-street crossings would meet safety requirements?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The answers are-

1. The committee has proposed that an over-pass be constructed.

(a) $815,000. (b) Delays due to shunting was the main

arg\lment for the over-pass; the other was safety.

2. No. 3. It is not dangerous if all users take

proper care. However, I am informed that 22 accidents have occurred in the past 21 years; no fatalities have resulted but nine people have been injured.

4.Provided that road-users obey the signals, a boom barrier installation is safe. lt is probable, that their installation at High~ street, however, would result in greater delays than are occurring at present.

If the Shepparton council and the citizens of Shepparton do not wish the over-pass to be built, many other councils would be happy to have the money which may be available for this purpose spent in their areas.

FIRES IN BARNAWARTHA AREA: LIABILITY.

Mr. MOSS (Leader of the Country Party) asked the Minister of Transport-

Whether the Victorian Railways Commissioners accept liability' for the recent fires adjacent to the railway line between Wodonga and ~amawartha?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The answer is-

No. I refer the honorable member to a question asked by the honorable member for Gisborne on Wednesday last in relation to allegations that diesel locomotives had caused a number of fires and the answer which I gave.

In view of inaccurate press reports on what I then said I repeat that thorough investigations have indicated that a certain additive, which has been present in the fuel burned by the diesels during the past twelve months or so, has a tendency to produce the emission of sparks.

However-this is the point-the additive was placed in the fuel by the oil company which supplied the fuel without the knowledge of the Railways Commissioners and contrary to their fuel specifications.

The railways refused several weeks ago to take further deliveries of fuel containing the additive referred to.

MOTOR BOATING ACT. REGISTRATIONS AND FEES: REVENUE:

COST OF COLLECTION.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. What are the respective categories and fees charged for the registration of motor boats?

2. How much was received in the last financial year in each category?

3. What was the cost of collection in each of the last three financial years?

3402 No(ice of [ASSEMBLY.] Motion.


1. The categories and fees charged for the registration of motor boatS are as follows:-

(a) For motor boats powered with engines of 3! horse-power or less-$2 per annum.

(b) For motor boats powered with engines of more than 3! horse-power-

(i) where the motor boat is 15 feet or less in length-$6 per annum;

(ii) where the motor boat is more than 15 feet in length-$lO per annum.

2. The revenue received each year is not dissected into the various categories. Revenue received for the last financial year amounted to $192,907. "

3. Costs of collection in each of the last three financial years were as follows :-

1964-65 $23,929 1965-66 $28,414 1966-67 .. $28,068

WATER SUPPLY. P. A. YEOMANS KEY LINE SYSTEM OF

WATER CONSERVATION.

For Mr. MITCHELL" (Benambra), Mr. Cochrane asked the Minister of Water Supply-

Whether it is the intention of the Government to assist in any way the implementation of the P. A. Yeomans key line system of water conservation in Victoria; if not, why?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Water Supply) .-The answer is-

The Government provides assistance through the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission in the form of advice to landholders on the construction of farm dams which are to be used in conjunctioJ;l with any method of water harvesting for irrigation including the key line system. Technical advice in the building of farm dams is also provided by the Soil Conservation Authority.

NOTICE OF MOTION. Mr. G. O. REID (Attorney

General) .-1 wish to give notice that to-morrow 1 shall move-

That I have leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Essential Services Act 1958.

Mr. MOSS (Leader of the Country Party) (By leave) .-The Premier has made a number of press statements about the proposed amendment of the Essential Services" Act. " Could the Attorney-General give the Hous"e some information on "the subject now?

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) (By leave) .-First, the reason for this amending Bill is that the Government wishes to avoid a repetition of the events of last Friday, when the activities of a certain industrial organization, the Municipal Officers' Association, resulted in an estimated 250,000 people being thrown out of work. In the interests of employment in this community and of peace and order, the Government wants to prevent any repetition of such action. It proposes to achieve that result by bringing the Essential Services Act, which was enacted in 1948, up to date, and by amending it in certain respects, to enable the Government to preserve law and order and work hand in hand with the responsible authorities administering arbitration in the community.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) (By leave) .-According to certain press statements, the Government proposes to follow a certain course and to gag this proposed legislation through the House. Can the Attorney-General inform the House whether that is so, and whether the Government intends to dispose of the Bill before anybody has a chance to examine its implications?

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) (By leave).-The Government considers that the Bill should be passed as rapidly as possible. The Government proposes that the Bill shall be passed by this House tomorrow, but I am sure that honorable members will have ample opportunity in which to debate it.

ROAD TRAFFIC (INFRINGEMENTS) BILL.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Road Traffic Act 1958.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read

a first titne.

Police Offences [5 MARCH, 1968.] (Publications) Bill. 3403

CHILDREN'S WELFARE (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Children's Welfare Act 1958.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read a

first time. .

EVIDENCE (ATTESTATIONS) BILL. Mr. G. O. REID (Attorney

General), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend Part IV~ of the Evidence Act 1958.


first time.

TRANSPORT REGULATION (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend sections 23 and 44 of the Transport Regulation Act 1958.


first time.

COMMERCIAL GOODS VEHICLES (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend section 3 of the Commercial Goods Vehicles Act 1958.


first time.

POLICE OFFENCES (PUBLICATIONS) BILL.

The House went into Committee for the further consideration of this Bill.

Discussion was resumed of clause 2, providing-

In section 172 of the principal Act-(a) the words "by post" (wherever

occurring) shall be repealed; (b) the words "in the nature of an

advertisment" shall be repealed;

(c) for the expression "$40" there shall be substituted the expression "$200"; and

(d) for the expression "$40 nor more than $200 " there shall be substitute ed the expression "$200 nor more than $1,000".

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).I have carefully studied the various views that were expressed in the course of the debate on this Bill, and I thank honorable members for their thoughtful . contributions. The Government does not often find itself in the situation of being prepared to accept all amendments suggested in the Committee stage. The first proposal was made by the honorable member for Malvern who suggested the insertion of the words " for the purpose of gain " in sections 172 and 173 of the principal Act which are proposed to be amended by clauses 2 and 3. This matter was overlooked when the Bill was drafted. The amendments were obviously related to advertisements, and there is no question that advertising is done for gain; I suppose there are a few people in the community who advertise not expecting any gain. Therefore, the Government accepts the suggested amendment, which is consistent with the other provisions of the Act.

The other proposition was advanced by the honorable member for Benambra who suggested that, having regard to the big business in pornography that is carried on by certain people, the penalties were insufficient and should be doubled. I thought the Government had gone far enough, but, after carefully examining the suggestions put forward by the honorable member for Benambra, the Government is prepared to agree to his proposals. Therefore, in the most friendly mood, I move--

That the following paragraph be inserted to precede paragraph (a):-

"( ) after the word C who' there shall be inserted the words C for the purpose of gain'; "

Mr. SUTTON (Albert Park).-I am pleased to hear the Chief Secretary describe himself as being in a

. 'Police Offe1Jce~ ,[A~S~MBLY.] (Publication$) Bill.

friendly- _ mood~ and -heaven: forbid that I should do anything to upset him. I consider that the amendment will, substantially improve the Clause, which contains a definite element of danger for any possessor of printed or written matter which could be ~egarded as banned material.

. We might wisely have a look at the situation as it could affect ourselves. It is certain enough that every honorable member has on his bookshelves publications of various kinds which would transgress the proposed law. We have them in the normal way of book-buying, because of appreciation of their literary merits, because of the necessity to keep abreast of current intellectual trends, or for any other legitimate purpose into which enforcers of the law should not be entitled to pry. Freedom to read is one of the fundamental freedoms.

I should like to amend a statement tha.t 1 made during the second-reading debate. 1 then sa.id that 1 did not agree with the honorable member for Malvern that nothing was obscene in itself. A moment or two afterwards 1 realized the significance of what he said. Obscenity, whatever that gruesome expression means in first or last analysis, is in the mind of the beholder and not in the object.

However, we must deal with practicalities, and according to the Act there are indecent, obscene and disgusting things. The Bill as drafted proposed to penalize anybody found in possession of any of them without concern for his reason for it. The amendment will confine the ground for prosecution to possession of any of these things for commerce, and it will go some distance to dispel any suspicion that freedom to read is being further assailed.

The amendment was agreed to.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).I move-. That, in paragraph (c), the expression cc $200" be omitted with the view of insertipg the expression "$400".

This amendment is in line with the suggestion made by the honorable member for Benambra.

Mr. TURNBULL' (Brunswick West) .-1 understood that the Chief Secretary intended to explain to the Committee the meaning of the words " indecent" and "of a disgusting nature ".


Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).-I move-

That, in paragraph (d), the expression "$200 nor more than $1,000" be omitted with the view of inserting the expression "$400 nor more than $2,000".


Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-During the second-reading debate, the honorable member for Brunswick West raised the question of the meaning of the words " disgusting" and " indecent" contained in the principal Act. He stated that although the word " obscene" was clearly defined, there was no definition of the words " indecent" and "disgusting". The courts relied on the dictionary definitions which, as the honorable member pointed out, were both vague and variable. He sought an assurance that the legislation would stand up in court although, 'according to an answer given by the Chief Secretary, it has not been challenged on this point. The subject could lead to lengthy legal discussion and high costs, whereas, if the Act contained clear definitions, their meaning would be placed beyond doubt.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) .-1 have examined a New Zealand case which dealt with the meaning of the word "indecent", and the phrase "a bloody calf" was held to be indecent. 1 assume that it is not that type of material which is to form the basis of prosecutions under the legislation as' amended, and that what is desired is prohibition of the publication of pictures, advertisements and other matter which are of an extre~ely offensive nature. It is

Labour :"and 1ndustry [5 MARCH,' 1968.] '(Amendment) Bill; 3405.

to;· be hoped that those responsible f.Or the administration of this' law will take proceedings only in extremely bad cases.

This legislation has been in existence for a long time, yet many horrible photographs have been circulated in the community. Last week the honorable member for N orthcote asked the Chief Secretary how many prosecutions had bee~ launched under this legislation since 1965, and the reply given was, " Nil ".

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).Perhaps I can assist the Committee by saying that there are laws of two types in the community-one in which there is a prosecution on every possible occasion, and another in which a standard is set and people are expected to' conform to it. I acknowledge that in the past few years no prosecutions have been launched in relation to advertisements; on the other hand, considerable success has been achieved in having advertisements modified or changed by drawing the attention of various people to the provisions of the Act.

I dO' not believe that a law in respect of which there is a prosecution on every possible occasion is a good one, and I can safely give the Committee an assurance on behalf of the Chief Commissioner of Police that this legislation will not be abused, because intention to prosecute under it is referred either to the Chief Secretary or to the Under Secretary. However, having regard to extraordinary decisions made by magistrates in recent weeks, I am not quite sure that people will not be acquitted when the matter complained of is really disgusting and convicted when it is not, although that is a matter about which I perhaps should not say too much.

I think the honorable member for Brunswick West appreciates my problems in this direction. If he has any doubts, I shall show him one or two decisions which have been made in the .last few we~ks. This i~ legislation

which sets a standard rather than legislation which is used' to launch prosecutions on every possible occasion. I can assure the honorable member that the courts will interpret this sensibly and that any fears that he has in: mind will prove· groundless.

The' clause as amended was agreed to. .

Clause 3 was consequentially amended and, as amended, was adopted, as were the remaining clauses.

The Bill was reported to the House with amendments, and passed through its remaining stages.

LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The debate (adjourned from February 20) on the motion of Mr. Rossiter (Minister of Labour and Industry) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East) .-When explaining this Bill about a fortnight ago, the Minister of Labour and Industry stated that its purpose was to amend the Labour and Industry Act 1958 with respect to three matters of major significance and several matters of minor significance. The honorable gentleman went on to say that the proposed amendments are in line with the Gov .. ernment's policy of moving with the times, and that these are times of change. Of course, one realizes that changes which take place are sometimes good and sometimes bad. In many ways the proposed legislation is progressive, but it is not progressive in all directions, and I shall discuss this aspect in due course.

I have no doubt that, before introducing the measure, the Minister consulted certain persons outside this House, and I realize that unanimity has been reached on certain points with which it deals. My own research on the measure and conversations with people outside Parliament indicate that this is so and that there is a lot in the Bill to be commended. . Ho-wever, there ar~

3406 Labour and Industry [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

certain aspects of the Bill with which the Opposition does not agree. Of course, the Government has adopted a general practice of furtively inserting in some Bills which might contain commendable provisions amendments which are not as progressive as might be desired and which the Opposition regards as retrograde.

The Opposition does not intend to oppose the second reading of the Bill, but at the Committee stage its members will comment on certain clauses. As the Minister stated, the Bill proposes to do three thingsfirst, to abolish the metropolitan district; secondly, to repeal section 6 of the principal Act; and, thirdly, to extend the Sixth Schedule to the principal Act. The Bill also proposes to reconstitute the Industrial Appeals Court. The Opposition will not say much on the last aspect because the proposal is in line with the ideas of the officers of the Trades Hall with whom I communicated. Those officers agree with the proposals contained in the Bill concerning what I might term the stabilization of the Industrial Appeals Court.

On the question of the abolition of the metropolitan district, I consulted officers of the shop assistants' union, who are very concerned with this Bill. Whilst they agree that the metropolitan district should be abolished, these gentlemen favour the third course of action referred to by the Minister in his second-reading speech. Referring to the metropolitan district, the honorable gentleman said-

If that district were abolished, the courses of action then open would be, first, to redefine the same area in another way and so leave the situation unchanged; secondly, to redefine a larger area in another way, to the same effect as an extension of the metropolitan district; or thirdly, to extend the area of operation of some or all boards to the whole of the State. The shop assistants' union would prefer the third course of action outlined by the Minister, with the words "some or" deleted, to be adopted. . This would extend the

Mr. Fennessy.

operation of all wages boards to the whole of the State. Those honorable members who have knowledge of the working of wages bOrards will appreciate that most of the boards operate generally throughout the State, with the exception in this particular instance of that board which deals with the shop assistants in respect of whom there is a determination known as "Determination of the Shops Board No. 7 (Country Shop Assistants)". I have here copy No.2 of 1967, which states, inter alia-

This determination applies to the whole of the State outside and excepting the following parts of Victorira, namely:- The metropolitan district as defined in the Labour and Industry Act, and the Orders in Council thereunder; the cities of Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong, Geelong West, Newtown and Chilwell, Warmambool, and the boroughs of Eaglehawk and Sebastopol.

The Minister's explanation in regard to the metropolitan district was lucid. The honorable gentleman pointed out how a good deal of confusion had arisen because this district did not extend very far. An example of the incongruity of the present situation can be found in Warrigal-road, Burwood, where on one side of the road a petrol retailer was able to sell petrol on a Sunday morning whereas a retailer on the other side of the road, whose premises were inside the metropolitan district, was not permitted to sell petrol on Sunday morning. Any legislation which gets rid of such barriers is commendable and worthy of support.

The Opposition considers that in the interests of justice, determination No. 7 relating to country shop assistants, to which I adverted, should be abolished, and that the wages board should determine salaries and conditions for these employees throughout the State. There should be no differentiation between the metropolitan and country areas, as exists at present. It seems ludicrous that a female shop assistant in some country towns should receive $8 a week less than a shop assistant in the city. As honorable

Labour and Industry [5 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3407

members are aware, many articles which ladies are interested in purchasing-materials, frocks, and so on-are the same price in Melbourne and the country, although in some country areas prices may· be a little higher. It seems ludicrous that a country shop assistant should receive a different rate of pay from his or her counterpart in the metropolis or in Bendigo, Ballarat, and other provincial cities.

I believe the third course of action mentioned by the Minister would be the best one. He did not inform the House what action the Government intends to take. It is possible that the metropolitan district having been abolished, it will be left to the shop assistants to argue the matter before the wages board, or to make a further approach to the Minister. I ask the honorable gentleman to indicate at the appropriate stage the Government's feelings on this matter and its intended course of action.

The Minister stated that whilst section 6 might have been appropriate 50 or more years ago, when different conditions operated in country areas as compared with the metropolis, the provision was now inapplicable because rural workers worked under the same conditions as city workers.

Mr. B. J. EVANs.-Does a rural worker work the same number of hours?

Mr. FENNESSY.-He works under terms and conditions laid down by the appropriate wages board. In some instances, country workers do not have the same holidays, and there are also other differences, but, by and large, the same safety measures and other conditions of employment apply to the metropolis and country areas. Provision of first-aid facilities and the institution of safety measures applied in the city area long before wages boards. were established for rural workers. The extension of these conditions to country areas is a good thing. The Minister has stated that the repeal of section 6, by sub-clause. (1) of

clause 7, will take nothing away from rural workers because the section has been inapplicable since rural workers have worked under wages board determinations. In those circumstances, the amendment is commendable.

Clause 8 provides, inter alia-(1) Section 42 of the Principal Act shall

be amended as follows :-(a) After sub-section (3) there shall

be inserted the following sub-section:-"(3A) The Governor in Council

may fill any extraordinary vacancy in the office of any member of the Court by appointing a member to serve for the unexpired portion of the term for which the first mentioned member was appointed.";

(b) For sub-section (4) there shall be substituted the following subsection :-

"(4) The Governor in Council may subject to this Division appoint a deputy president or a deputy representative of employers or of employes to act-

(a) in any case where the president or a representative member (as the case may be) of the Court is unable to act; or

(b) during an extraordinary vacancy in the office of the president or a representative member (as the case may be) of the Court until the occurrence of the vacancy-

and any such deputy shall have all the powers of the member in place of whom he acts and shall be entitled when he so acts to receive such remuneration as is fixed by the Governor in CounciL";

(c) After sub-section (4) there shall be inserted the following sub-section :-

cc (4A) Where any deputy member of the Court is temporarily absent or unable to act, the Governor in Council may appoint an acting deputy who shall during the time when the deputy is absent or unable to act have all the powers of the deputy, and shall be entitled when he acts as a member of the Court to receive such remuneration as is fixed by the Governor in Council."

I have discussed these proposed amendments with officers of the Trades Hall· Council and they commend. the Government for its action.

3408 Labour and Industry [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill. ""

The Industrial Appeals Court consists of a chairman, who is a Judge of the County Court; a representative of the employers, who" is usually nominated by the Chamber of Manu .. factures; and a representative of the trade union movement, whose representative is the well-known and celebrated Michael Jordan, the secretary of the Trades Hall Council. Naturally, his deputy would be the assistant secretary of the Trades Hall Council, Mr. Ken Stone. However, a situation arose in the past where, through the illness of one, and the absence interstate of the other, neither was able to take his place" at the appointed time. The appointment of a deputy to the deputy is a commendable step. No doubt, the employers have also found themselves in a similar position, and this amendment will remove any future difficulty.

As no doubt the Minister expected, the substitution of a new Sixth Schedule, as proposed in clause 12, is the most contentious proposal in the Bill, and one with which the Opposition is not happy. I do not desire to delay the House by repeating the principles which have been enunciated in the past. They are on record for all time, and Opposition members do not intend to depart from them. We believe that the proposed new Sixth Schedule will result in a breaking down of conditions: and that it will legalize what is at present an illegal practice. The Gov"ernment is taking a backward step. It is illegal for milk bars or small shops to sell any item other than those listed in the Sixth Schedule. The Opposition previously opposed an increase in the number of items listed in the schedule.

Mr. ROSSITER.-The Government legalized illegal week-end baking.

, Mr. FENNESSY.-This was done only because there were insufficient officers in the Department of Labour and Industry to police the Act. This is typical of the Government. If it cannot cope with a position it legal~ izes illegal practices. The number

of items listed in the Sixth Schedule is being increased from 23" to 46, and it will be difficult to determine what is a pastrycook's shop, a chemist's shop, a grocer's shop, a greengrocer's shop or a milk bar. Chemists are now selling everything from babies' dummies to ladies' wigs, and this practice cuts across the activities of some industries. Many shopkeepers are not happy about this measure. The Minister of Labour and Industry said that the family grocer was not disturbed by the extension of the Sixth Schedule. .

Mr. WHEELER.-There are very few of them now.

Mr. FENNESSY.-In his secondreading speech, the honorable gentle .. man said that this Bill would not disturb the family grocer. However, as the honorable member for Essendon interjected, there are very few of them left, because the huge combines, the great supermarkets, have cc killed" the little family grocer. The same si tua tion will develop in relation to other small shops. The honorable gentleman said that the provisions of this Bill will suit the people living in areas of East Melbourne, Carlton and Fitzroy, where there are many flat dwellers.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Also apartmenthouses and boarding-houses.

Mr. FENNESSY.-The Minister of Labour and Industry may call them what he will. Thanks to the redevelopment plans of the Housing Commission in the Carlton and Fitzroy areas, many high-rise flats have been built. There are some good shopping centres available, but it will not be long before the big stores move in.

Mr. WHEELER.-Do you want to restrict them?

Mr. FENNESSY.-I want to restrict monopolies, and I am sure the honorable member for Essendon has the same desire. The passage of this Bill will open the way for monopolies to operate in particular areas where good sales may be available.

Labour and 1ndustry [5-' MARCH, 1968.] '_ (Amendment) Bill., 3409.

Mr. ROSSITER.-What is your definition of a monopoly?

Mr. FENNESSY.-The Minister of Labour and Industry knows the answer as well as I do.

Mr. 'ROSSITER.-I shall tell you later.

Mr. FENNESSY.-Some time ago legislation was enacted to permit shops in recognized tourist areas to open on a Friday night for a period of fifteen weeks in each year. On the Mornington Peninsula, this is in the summer season. I have been told that on a Friday night people now travel from Mount Eliza to Mornington where shops are open, and this adversely affects shopkeepers in Frankston. Because the owners of stores in Frankston are good businessmen, I am sure they will not be prepared to allow their trade to diminish, and they will "push" this Government to permit them to open on Friday nights.

Mr. MEAGHER.-You do not know the situation very well if you believe that people will travel from Mount Eliza to Mornington instead of to Frankston to do their shopping.

Mr. FENNESSY.-I was told that a Frankston businessman stated that his Saturday morning takings drop during the period when the shops in Mornington are open on a Friday night. 'What is happening in Frankston will occur in other areas. The proposal in the Bill to allow additional goods to be sold from certain shops is a retrograde step and is only legalizing a practice that is now illegal. Because the Department of Labour and Industry is understaffed, the Act cannot be policed at all times. A similar situation exists with regard to road transport and traffic; if sufficient policemen were available, the traffic laws would be more adequately enforced and offenders would be brought before the court more frequently. It is of no use the Government enacting new legislation' if it does not have the ability to police it. The Litter Act was placed on the statute-book some years ago,' but it

has never been policed. The Opposi .. tion is becoming sick and tired o~ the Government introducing Bills simply for the sake of outward appearance without the ability to police them-in fact, the Government is doing nothing.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Would you repeal the legislation?

Mr. FENNESSY.-When the Labor Party becomes the Government and the opportunity presents itself, it will examine the relevant legislation to see what can be done. The Opposition will not oppose the motion for the second reading of the Bill, but it will oppose clause 12, which proposes an extension of the Sixth Schedule.

Mr. MOSS (Leader of the Country Party) .-The debate has taken an interesting turn. Bills designed to amend the Labour and Industry Act have always been the subject of substantial debate, but I do not think that will be the situation on this occasion. Generally speaking, members of Parliament are alert to their responsibilities, and they are aware of the circumstances and conditions covered by the Labour and Industry Act.

As the honorable member for Brunswick East stated, the Sixth Schedule of the Act is to be extended to include a further 23 items, but I do not agree with his contention about what has happened over the years when the number of items included in the Sixth Schedule has been increased, particularly in declared tourist areas. My experience in northern Victoria, which would be fairly typical of what is happening in the rest of the State, with the exception of Frankston and Mornington, has been that the legislation has been welcomed. ' In my opinion the proposal to further increase the number of items included in the Sixth Schedule is a good one, particularly in view of ' the fact that the proposed additional items are those which a housewife requires from time to time. I do not agree with the coritention

n

3410 Labour and' Industry [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

that one could wait until Monday morning to buy these items. Experience 'has shown that the extension of the list of goods in the Sixth Schedule has worked extremely well, particularly in declared tourist areas, despite the assertions that were made in this House during the debates on this legislation that there would be adverse interference with working conditions. This has not transpired in country areas.

I refer now to what has been called the differential between awards in the city and in the country. As the honorable member for Brunswick East stated, the activities of wages boards are to be extended so that they will operate throughout Victoria. The Shops Board No.7, which at present operates in country areas, has fairly satisfied the demands of employers and employees in the past and no representations concerning it have been made to me from any of the parties concerned. This is a clear indication that the people are reasonably happy about the operations of this board. However, it is proposed that this Board should be abolished and the Minister has given no reasons to support this proposal. The board has been in operation for many years and has worked successfully. I should therefore like to know why it is proposed to amend the Act to abolish the Shops Board No.7.

Mr. ROSSITER.-The honorable member is completely wrong in his assertion.

Mr. MOSS.-I am not. Members are entitled to an explanation of why the board is to be abolished. Whenever a Government sets out to upset a situation which has been operating successfully in country areas for many years, reasons for the proposal should be given, and I would therefore be grateful if the Minister would furnish the House with an explanation on this occasion.

Mr. REESE (Moorabbin).-There appears to be a large area of agreement between the Government, the Opposition party and the Country

Party on this Bill, and J was particularly pleased to note that in his comments on this measure the spokesman for the Opposition-the honorable member for Brunswick East-realized the need for the extension of the socalled metropolitan district. To-day, Victoria cannot be considered in two water-tight compartments-country and city-but must be considered on a State-wide basis. However, that area of agreement seems to disappear when the Sixth Schedule of the Labour and Industry Act is being considered.

In order that the matter may be fully understood, I direct attention to a comment made by the Minister of Labour and Industry in his second-reading speech when he said that the Government proposed to extend the scope of the Sixth Schedule to include items which a reasonable man or woman, acting in a reasonable way, might find it necessary to purchase, on occasions, after 6 p.m. I believe that to be a brief, factual statement of the circumstances which have created the demand for Fifth Schedule shops in this State to supply items after 6 p.m. Originally, this was done illegally, but since 1955 a restricted number of items could be purchased legally. In my opinion where the public has shown a desire for a service of this type to be provided by shopkeepers, the Government should be prepared to permit the shopkeepers to provide that service. In fact, it is a responsibility of the Government to heed that demand.

Some fifteen or twenty years ago, as a flat dweller in the inner suburbs of Melbourne, I had personal experience of this matter, and I can vouch for the need for the facilities provided by the corner shop, the confectionery shop, and the milk bar. In my opinion the increase in the number of Sixth Schedule items from 23 to 46, is reasonable. This provision will bring within the scope of the Sixth Schedule many items for which there is public demand and the sale of which hitherto has been restricted.


The Victorian Government has not gone as far as the Tasmanian Government did last year when it removed all restrictions on hours of trade. The Bill does not propose the provisions which operate in Queensland, where the hours during which little shops can sell some 90 itemsas against 46 mentioned in the Billare unrestricted, nor those which operate in New South Wales. The proposal before the House is a happy compromise.

Since 1955, the people of Victoria have shown their appreciation of being allowed to buy, outside normal trading hours, the items mentioned in the Sixth Schedule of the Act. The Government is acting correctly and wisely L'l increasing the number of these items which may be sold after 6 p.m. The keepers of small shops are prepared to provide a service, which is appreciated. For that reason alone, the extension of the range of goods as proposed is justified.

The removal of restrictions has invariably been opposed from the Opposition benches. When garage trading hours-of which I had had twenty years' experience-were extended, there were dire predictions of chaos in the industry. The removal of the restrictions has had virtually no effect on service station proprietors.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! I do not think the the honorable member should take that path.

Mr. REESE.-I shall abide by your ruling, Mr. Speaker. I merely wished to mention the outcome of the extension of garage trading hours as an instance to show that an addition to the number of Sixth Schedule items which may be sold after 6 p.m. will not reduce the standard of the conditions in the industry. The addition of twenty items cannot logically or sensibly be construed as an invitation to reduce the standard of conditions operating in small shops.

I reiterate that this measure relates to two basic truths. First, Victoria

must be regarded as a whole. The metropolitan district as originally defined in the Shops and Factories Acts, and later in the Labour and Industry Act, might have had some application in 1896 or 1900, but the day of that application has long since passed. I 'am glad that all honorable members recognize that fact.

Secondly, the people of this State have demonstrated' a demand for the service which the Fifth Schedule shops are prepared to give. I cannot agree with the contention that the extension to the range of items which can be sold after hours by the Fifth Schedule shops is motivated by an inability to police their activities. The introduction of the provisions were not motivated in that way in 1955, and the reactions of the public since then justify the extension to the range of items.

Mr. BIRRELL (Geelong).-The explanatory second-reading speech of the M'inister of Labour and Industry contains a precise and detailed explanation of the provisions of the Bill, which deals with a number of unrelated matters, and it is deserving of high commendation. The Labour and Industry Act relates to State functions which automatically meet new problems as time advances, and the Act is therefore one which must be periodically amended. The Local Government Act is another such Act, and there are not many sessions of Parliament in which it is not amended. This type of legislation must always be under review and must be kept up to date according to current trends.

There are three or four matters which come within the ambit of the Bill, and other speakers have already commented on them. First, there is the contention that the defining of a metropolitan district is a little out of date. If the previous member for Moonee Ponds had been present, I am sure that he would have spoken at great length on this subject. In his electorate he faced the problem that different rates of pay applied to opposite sides of a street, because one side was

Labour and Indtlstry . : tAS~EMBL Y.]. ,:.(Ame.n"dtnent) .. Bill,~.

within the metropolitan district and. one was not. There will always be contention when a line is drawn to divide the city from the country or one part of the State from another, with a resulting differential application of laws and wages board determinations. Such divisions are out of date to-day.

Obviously, the future of various determinations of wages boards is at stake, but the Bill provides for a settling down period of twelve months during which most problems will be met. The future of the Country Shop Assistants Wages Board cannot be guaranteed, but, in any case, some wages board must prescribe wages in retail trade. If the Minister can supply any further information in relation to the query raised by the Leader of the Country Par:ty, the House wiH listen with interest.

In the past, difficulties have arisen in filling vacancies in the Industrial Appeals Court, but the Bill provides that the Governor in Council may fill an extraordinary vacancy. This is a normal, machinery provision which has been lacking in the Act.

Some time ago, the Subordinate Legislation Committee commented that the Labour and Industry Act appeared to lack power to incorporate normally acceptable standards in the regulations made under the Act. The difficulty caused by that lack of power is overcome by clause 10 of the Bill, whioh clears up a doubtful legal point.

The Acts relating to unemployment relief have been on the statute-book for well over 30 years. No doubt, It is the desire of the Government and of the Department administering them to repeal the Unemployment Relief (Administration) Acts of 1932, 1933 and 1936. Apparently, there are still in the Treasury funds which were provided under those Acts, and it is therefore not desirable that they should be abolished. The Bill repeals the Acts so far as they relate to the administrative side of the Department of Labour and Industry, but they remain operative so far as the

Mr. Birrell.

Treasury of· Victoria is concerned. This will render unnecessary the keeping of useless statistics and book-work in relation to these Acts by the Department of Labour and Industry. . The question of the Sixth Schedule is rather more controversial.' A group of people representing the public sector of the community has attempted to work out a more modern list of goods which the ordinary public might desire to purchase after 6 p.m. Perhaps one item could be left off the list and another item added, but after careful consideration the Government has produced a new list which increases the number of items in the Sixth Schedule from 23 to 46. This might appear to be a large increase. Having spoken on the subject to a lady member of Parliament-who should have a reasonable idea of the type of item which housewives particularly desire to purchase after 6 p.m. -and having considered these items thoroughly, I believe the list contained in the proposed new Sixth Schedule to be an up-to-date one. I do not think there will be many complaints from the vast majority of the people in Victoria for whose benefit this legislation is being enacted. I support the Bill.

Mr. WHEELER (Essendon).-I support the measure, but for reasons different from those expressed by the honorable member for Brunswick East, and the Leader of the Country Party who raised a question relating to the metropolitan district and Shops Board No.7. The size of Melbourne is increasing rapidly, and a number of shopping centres are springing up on the fringe of the metropolitan area. Shopkeepers in that fringe area are at a disadvantage compared with shopkeepers within the metropolitan area. Some shopkeepers in the fringe areas have expressed the view that the words "metropolitan district" should be deleted from the Act, and I believe in presenting this Bill the Government is acting in the interests of those shopkeepers.

Labour· and-· Industry [5" MARCH, 19~8.] (Amendment) Bill. 341"3

The Sixth Schedule to the Act at present comprises 23 items, and it is now proposed to increase this :number to 46. Times have changed to the extent that working wives are accepted as' part of the social structure.

Mr. GINIFER.~ Tthe economic structure.

Mr. WHEELER.-That point could be argued, but at ,any rate the fact that wives work has been accepted by the community. Formerly~ when the family grocer existed, service was the essence of business; the .grocer was willing to make home deliveries of groceries. However, many small family grocers found it necessary to amalgam,ate ; they formed companies and established self-service groceries which were able to meet public demand at cheaper prices. In view of the fact that many housewives work, provision must be made so that they may purchase goods after finishing their work, and it is desirable to add to the number of articles listed in the Sixth Schedule. I have always believed that in order to sell their 'goods shopkeepers must display them so that they can be seen by intending purchasers.

As a result of the advent of the selfservice grocer, modern supermarkets were developed. It cannot be argued successfully that the introduction of the supermarket system has resulted in goods becoming dearer. Under this system the purchaser is able to buy goods cheaper than when there were many small family grocer shops throughout the suburbs. A demand is evident for the ertension of the number of items which may be sold by shopkeepers under the Sixth Schedule. While the demand exists, it is the Government's policy and right to meet that demand and so satisfy the consumer.

It has been suggested that an insufficient number of inspectors is employed to police the prov,isions of the Act. Is it desired that Victoria should become a police State? Surely

·a shopkeeper should not be afraid 'to sell a pound of tea or some other small item after 6 p.m. lest 'an inspector catch hi~ in the act.

Mr. FENNESSY.-Do you not believe in respect for the law?

Mr. WHEELER.-The law does ,not make adequate provision for the person who. desires to buy cer:tain

-goods after 6 p.m. Therefore, I believe this measure should be welcomed, not only by members of all parties in this House but also by the general public who will benefit from its provisions.

Mr. GINIFER,-Would you advocate hotel trading on Sunday?

Mr. WHEELER.-Not under any circumstances. I consider that this Bill will be accepted by the general public and should not be criticized by members of the Opposition because it is in their interests to ensure that public demands are satisfied. I believe members of the Opposition are speaking with their tongues in their cheeks when they contend that many of the articles listed in the Sixth Schedule should be confined to shops which close at 6 p.m. I trust that the stage will not be reached when a shopkeeper is afraid to open his doors because an inspector might be peeping round the corner.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was read a second time

and committed. Clause 1 was agreed to. Clause 2 (Repeal of interpreta

tion of "Metropolitan District"). Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour

and Industry) .-At the outset, I should like to thank members on the Government side of the Chamber who have supported this Bill. The fact that three Government back benchers have contributed to the second-reading debate on a major Bill whilst only one member of Her M~jesty's Opposition has done so is ',worthy of being placed, on record . . I pay tribute to the cohesion, the ..Ioyalty and the 'ability displayed oy

3414 Labour and Industry [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

speakers supporting the Government. In fact, I suggest that this Government is able to provide more speakers with a greater appreciation of any situation affecting the State than can the Opposition, whether that situation is a by-election, a debate on a Bill, a want-of-confidence motion or an adjournment motion.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. L. S. Reid).Order! I ask the Minister to return to the Bill.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Very well, Mr. Chairman. I thank the honorable member for Brunswick East, who is handling the Bill on behalf of the Opposition, for his indication that the Trades Hall Council supports the proposed amendments to the Labour and Industry Act. In view of some other activities which are in train in the community at the moment, it is most heartening to know that the Government has the support of that council, for these measures affect the welfare of the people of Victoria. The fact that the Trades Hall Council is allowing the Opposition to support them indicates that the council is getting closer to the nub of public opinion than it has been hitherto.

The honorable member for Brunswick East informed the House that the Trades Hall Council agrees with its proposals to stabilize some aspects of the operation of the Industrial Appeals Court, and he intimated that the council supports the attitude of the Government concerning the provisions contained in section 6 of the principal Act which to-day have little effect. The honorable member stated that the Shop Assistants' Federation was somewhat concerned about the abolition of the metropolitan district and its effect on wages boards. The Leader of the Country Party indicated that the same concern was felt with respect to the Country Shop Assistants Board. I shall turn to that ina moment.

As I am sure the honorable member for Brunswick East will appreciatefor he is fond of putting things on

record-that the files of the Department of Labour and Industry show that Mr. Jordan, the secretary of the Trades Hall Council, has for some time advocated the abolition of the metropolitan district.

Mr. FENNEssY.-The Opposition also holds that view.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Therefore, in various responsible areas of the community the opinion is unanimous that the metropolitan district is now an artificial discrimination between the country and the city and should be abolished.

Mr. WILTON.-Why not do this with the registration of motor cars?

Mr. ROSSITER.-I shall leave that matter for the Chief Secretary to examine. It is not within my power. With regard to the Opposition's approach to the Sixth Schedule to the Act, I was rather surprised that the honorable member for Brunswick East should describe Carlton, with its old-fashioned shopping centres, as being very lively, very ·active and very profitable when he was referring to establishments such as Woolworths, Waltons or Coles as monopolies. If he was referring to them as monopolies in the sense that they will take all of the business in the area, I think he is mistaken. Frankston is an example of this. Before the second world war, Frankston was a pleasant little country town, but since then, with supermarkets and establishments such as Coles and Woolworths now in operation at the city end of the main street, it has changed.

It is an economic law that enterprises of this type attract other enterprises to them. That has happened in Frankston and in Dandenong, and in view of the redevelopment programmes and the policies of the Housing Commission I am confident that, in the long term, the same thing will happen at Carlton. That would be a good thing for the citizens of Carlton. The Government's purpose in widenin.g


the' Sixth Schedule is to do the same thing in another way. The o~ject. is to provide members of the pubbc wIth greater access to goods which are in demand during hours in which the normal shops are not allowed to remain open.

I believe that when the honorable member for Brunswick East charged the Government with changing the law because it could not police breaches of it, he confused fundamental issues. In my view, whenever a law tends to become a bad one because it is broken frequently and because public demand has changed, the Government should propose an amendment to bring it up to date. That is the prime motive behind the Government's proposals in this matter.

Mr. FLoYD.-The people should change the Government.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Whenever the Opposition has tried to change the Government, it has been roundly defeated. As members who entered this House in 1955 will remember, a most interesting and absorbing debate concerning the liberalizing of the trading hours of small shops took place in that year. It was led on the Government side by that illustrious and magnificent statesman, Sir John Bloomfield, the then Minister of Labour and Industry. The Hansard report of the debate indicates the fundamental differences in the philosophies of the Government and the Opposition at that time. On this occasion I was disappointed that the honorable member for Brunswick East, on behalf of the Opposition, did not repeat the points which were made in previous debates. I was prepared to discuss any such aspects which might arise.

The Leader of the Country Party expressed great concern at the possible effect of this measure on the operation of shops boards and the differential awards for employees as between country and city. I point out that the abolition of the metropolitan district will have no

detrimental effect on the operation of the wages board which deals with country shop assistants. Th~ board will continue to meet to dIscharge the powers conferred on it by the Labour and Industry Act to make determinations and decide in its wisdom whether or not different rates of pay and conditions should apply to shop assistants in the country as compared with their counterparts in the city. Under the new legislation Victoria will be regarded as an entity, and each wages board will ope~ate in its o~n way according to' Its charter In making determinations for the good of the represented interests, both employees and employers.

In conclusion, I thank honorable members for the way in which they received this Bill. I am certain that it will operate for the benefit of the people of Victoria.

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East) .-It was interesting and enlightening for members of the Opposition to hear the backscratching in which the Minister of Labour and Industry indulged in when complimenting back-bench me.mbers of the Government party for supporting him on this occasion. From time to time, the Opposition has attempted to induce various Government backbench members to participate in debates on serious matters. Of course, we realize that these members have been precluded from doing so by their front-bench leaders. We can only conclude that on this occasion, in view of the time and the paucitv· of Government business, instead of these members being told not to speak, the Government has endeavoured to extend the debate on this Bill in order to keep the House occupied at least until the dinner adjournment.

The Minister referred to the debate which took place early in 1955 on the labour and industry legislation. I have clear recollections of the debate and well remember the utterances of the honorable member

3416 . ::lAbour '(Ind .. IndUstry [ASSEMBLY.] .. :

for Malvern,' who was then Minister (>f La~our and Industry. At that time the Opposition had a very redoubtable member and Leader in the late John Cain. The arguments advanced by Our late Leader on that occasion were a 'worthy and formidable' answer to the Government's proposals. It 'is not necessary for me to read those early debates because I have a vivid memory of them. In fact, earlier I said that I did not intend to repeat arguments which had been advanced by the Opposition on previous occasions.

. The Opposition considers that the extension of the Sixth Schedule to the Act is an unwarranted and retrograde step, which is not in the best interests of many people, particularly those engaged in business. The Minister's remarks concerning Shops Board NO'. 7 were interesting. I trust that, when approaches are made to it, the Board will endeavour to bring the salaries and working conditions of country shop assistants into line with those which apply in the metropolitan area and the provincial cities. If the Board does this, it will be doing a good job. On the other hand, if it does not, the Opposition believes that the Board should be abolished, and that one board should have jurisdiction throughout the State, as is the case. with most wages boards, so that uniform terms of employment will ~pply.

. Mr. BIRRELL (Geelong).-Obviously the Government does not intend to intervene in the area of detef\minations referred to by the honorable member for Brunswick East. It is my personal opinion that it would be equitable, in due course, to have one determination for the whole State in relation to shop assistants. It seems to me to be out of touch with modern labour legislation to have differing rates and wo'rking conditions in the city and in country areas. Accordingly, I support the remarkS of the honorable member fot Brunswick East on this aspect.

'JIhe clause was agreed to, as were clauses 3 to 5.

Clause 6 was verbally amended, and, as amended, w~s adopted, as were clauses 7 ,to 11.

Clause 12 (Goods which may be sold. from certain shops) .

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East). -For the reasons outlined during the second-reading debate,' the Opposition opposes the additions to the Sixth Schedule as proposed in this clause.

Mr. WHEELER (Essendon).-Be~ cause the Opposition has criticized the extension of the number of goods to be sold from shops with' later closing· times, I have taken the trouble of examining a publication by Pan Am, New Horizons-World of Pan Am, which lists the position in 119 countries. In Denmark, the main shops close at 7 p.m. on weekdays and 2 p.m. on Saturdays; in Germany, 9 p.m. on weekdays and 2 p.m. on Saturdays; in Italy, 8 p.m. on weekdays and 2 p.m. on Saturdays; in Russia, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.--

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. L. S. Reid). -I point out to the honorable member that this. clause deals not with closing times,' but with the goods that ~ay be sold.

Mr. WHEELER.-Perhaps I misled you, Mr. Chairman, but 1 was re-: ferring to shops w:here the goods listed in the proposed. new Sixth Schedule may be obtain~d at these hours in other countries, and was proposing to draw a comparison with the situation prevailing in Victoria. The increase in the number of goods that may be sold in such shops is not confined to Victoria; there is a world-wide trend in this direction. This State should not allow a position to continue which could lead to criticism. by tourists whO' may, on returning. from a day in the country, wish to purchase goods to provide. themselves' with a cup of tea but be unable to do so.

Road Traffic [5 MARCH, 1968.] (Infringements) Bill. 3411

O' The' Committee divided on the -clause (Mr. L. S. Reid in the chair)-

5 Ayes 48 Noes 16

Majority for the clause 32

AYES.

Mr. Balfour Mr. Birrell SIr John Bloomfield Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Borthwick Mr. Cochrane Mr. Doyle Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Sir Herbert Hyland Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. McDonald

(Rodney) Mr. McKellar Mr. McLaren Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Moss Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese

Mr. Reid .. (Box Hill)

Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Rossiter Mr. Rylah Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) Mr. Smith

(Warrnambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stirlihg Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Mr. Tanner

(Morwell) Mr. Tanner

( Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Trethewey Mr. Trewin Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Billing Mr. Templeton.

NOES.

iVIr. Clarey Mr. Divers Mr. Fennessy Mr. Floyd Mr. Ginifer Mr. Holding Mr. Lovegrove Mr. Mutton Mr. Ring

Mr. Stoneham Mr. Sutton Mr. Turnbull Mr~ Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tell~rs: Mr. Edmunds Mr. Trezise.

PAIR.

Sir William McDonald I Dr. Jenkins.

Clause 13 was agreed to.

o. The Bill was reported to the House with amendments, and passed through its remaining stages.

'. The sitting was suspended at 6.25 p:.m.'until.8.4 p.m .... ' '

ROAD TRAFFIC (INFRINGEMENTS) BILL.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. This' short: Bill is designed to bring certain additional offences within fixed penalty procedure under the Road Traffic Act. It has two principal purpos~s.

First, the Government is gravely concerned to tackle the problem of the road toll. In the spring sessional period, Parliament approved of amendments to the Motor Car Act 1958 and to the Crimes Act '1958 which were designed to this end. The provisions of this Bill will materially assist the police in the enforcement of other provisions of our road laws, particularly those relating to the driving of unroadworthy vehicles, which, I am sure, every honorable member would. like to see off the road.

The second main purpose of the Bill is to save police time. This is on the basis of savirig police from waiting around courts to prove cases which could normally be proved in a much simpler way. If that time is saved, the police will be enabled to spend more time on the road where they can be of tremendous value. The operation of the present fixed penalty procedure under the Road Traffic Act has saved a considerable amount of time of the members of the Force in a ttending courts and has allowed them to concentrate their efforts for longer periods on the enforcement of the road laws. There is nothing more exasperating for a member of the Mobile Traffic Squad than to have to spend a lot of time preparing summonses, attending court, and waiting outside a court while a string of defendants, who have no intention of appearing, are called. This Bill will enable 'police to save still further time spent in court attendances and to use that time for detecting and, I sincerely . trust; deterring road offenders.' .

3418 Road Traffic [ASSEMBLY.] (Infringements) Bill.

The Road Traffic Act 1958' defines various offences to be traffic infringements for the purpose of that Act. Any offence against the Road Traffic Regulations 1962 and any offence against regulations made under the Motor Car Act 1958 fall within that definition. A number of other offences are also included in the definition, but for the purpose of this Bill these need not be mentioned. Pursuant to sub-section (4c) of section IIA of the principal Act, a member of the Police Force who has reason to believe that a person has committed a traffic infringement of the kind described in the Second Schedule to the Act is empowered to serve on that person a traffic infringement notice.

This Bill does two things. First, it extends the definition of traffic infringement to include--

(a) any offence against sub-section (1) of section 3 of the Litter Act 1964 relating to the throwing down and dropping of litter from a motor car;

This relates to the throwing from motor cars not only of beer cans, bottles, and other articles, to the danger of other motorists, but also of such things as cigarette packets, lolly and ice-cream papers, and the like.

Mr. WILKES.-I saw three cans come out of a motor car at once on Sunday.

Mr. RYLAH.-As the Deputy Leader of the Opposition will agree, cans thrown from motor cars can be a danger to drivers of other vehicles. When he sees something thrown from another car, an inexperienced or nervous driver is inclined to shy and perhaps cause an accident. Apart from that, I think every member of this House is interested in trying to keep down the quantity of litter tha,t appears on suburban and country roads. The definition of "traffic infringement" will also include-

(b) any offence under paragraph ( d) of sub-section (1) of section 17 of the Motor Car

Act' of not having a number plate' attached to a motor car, or of having an obscured or not easily distinguishable number plate attached to a motor car.

Secondly, the Bill amends the Second Schedule to the Road Traffic Act by describing additional offences for which traffic infringement notices may be served by a member of the Police Force. These additional offences are--

(a) Exceeding any speed limit by ,more than ten miles per hour, but less than fifteen miles per hour-penalty $20.

Mr. WILKES.-Is that offence not covered at present?

Mr. RYLAH.-At present a traffic infringement notice is given to an offender for exceeding the speed limit by up to ten miles per hour, for which the penalty is $10. The Police Department has advised that a great number of persons exceed the speed limit by between 10 and 15 miles per hour and that under the existing provisions policemen have to issue summonses, and go to court and prove the offences. It is now proposed that an offender who exceeds any speed limit by more than 10 miles per hour, but less than 15 miles per hour, can receive a traffic infringement notice, and the penalty is to be double the penalty for exceeding a speed limit by 10 miles per hour.

A further additional offence is-(b) Using on a highway a motor

car or trailer whioh is not in good mechanical order, or is unsafe or is not in a thoroughly serviceable condition. The penalty will be $20.

A curious situation has developed in regard to unroadworthy vehicles. If the police check a vehicle and find something wrong, they give the owner or driver a ticket and tell him to have the trouble rectified. They usually do not prosecute because of the time involved in doing so. ' It

Road Traffic [5 MARCH, 1968.] (Infringements) Bill. 3419

see-ms to me to be rather extraordinary that the driver of an unroadworthy vehicle can only be told to have it fixed in his own interest and cannot be prosecuted except by a long and invo.lved procedure.

Further offences are-( c) Having no number plate, at)

obscured number plate, or a number plate not easily distinguishable-penal ty $10.

(d) Having no rear vision mirror, or having an ineffective rear vision mirror-penalty $10.

(e) Passing a stationary tra,m car -penalty $10.

Mr. CLAREY.-That penalty is a bit low, is it not?

Mr. RYLAH.-I think I should take the trouble to explain to honorable members that the purpose of the traffic infringement notice provisions is not to provide that a driver can get away with a ~tatutory penalty of $10, or whatever It may be, but to enable the police to issue a ticket on the spot where a fairly minor infringement is detected. The Chief Commissioner of Police has made it abundantly clear to members of the Police Force that if a serious or dangerous infringement is detected, they must. not use the traffic infringement notIce. I think that is fair enough.

As I said earlier, it is ridiculous to have many policemen wasting time standing outside court awaiting the hearing of a case when it is known that defendants will not appear. On the other hand, if a serious offence were detected, I should be the first to agree that a police,man should have to issue a summons and should give the necessary evidence to ensure that the magistrate was fully seised of the danger of the situation that the defendant created.

Experience has shown that the fears which were voiced by members of all parties in this House when the traffic. infringement notice system was first Introduced have not basically been realized. The police have used their discretion-I think wisely and

well. An isolated case in which representations have been made to' an honorable member may suggest otherwise, but I think most of those complaints have been cured by representation to the authorities. I believe the traffic infringement notice system is working well and the motorist is accepting it.

Mr. WILKES.-There are certain ex.ceptions in relation to. the passing of a stationary tram, are there not?

Mr. RYLAH.-Yes. This a'mendment does not alter the offence as it is set out in the Road Traffic Act; it merely uses the term "passing a stationary tram car" to summarize the offence of passing it having regard to the existing conditions. Provision is made in the Road Traffic Act for situations in which a motorist may be waved on by a tram driver or tram conductor, and that is fair enough. What we are concerned about here is the person who deliberately and regularly passes stationary trams.

The final offence is-(f) Throwing down or dropping

litter from a mOotor car on a highway-penalty $10.

The effect of these amendments will be that in the future a member of the Police Force will be able to serve a traffic infringement notice on any person who has commi.tted any of those offences, and the offender may expiate that offence by the payment of the penalty, as fixed in the Second Schedule, for that particular offence.

I again emphasize that, if any member of the public believes he has been dealt with wrongly, he is entitled to give notice that he does not propose to pay the penalty prescribed and intends to go to court. Then, of course, the normal procedure will apply. I commend the Bill to the House. As I said earlier, it is another attempt by the Government to alleviate the dreadful road toll and, at the same time, to ensure that members of the Police Force have less paper work

~420 Evidence· . [ASSEMBLY.] (Attestations) Bill.

to do and more time to spend on the duties for which they are trained and employed. . On the motion of Mr. WILKES (North cote) , the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 19.

EVIDENCE (ATTESTATIONS) BILL.

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. It is introduced to overcome for the future a difficulty which manifested itself last year on a trial for perjury arising out of the swearing of an allegedly false affidavit. before a commissioner of the Supreme Court for taking affidavits. It was necessary upon the trial for the Crown to prove that the accused person took his oath as to the truth and correctness of the document and that he held a Bible whilst reciting the appropriate words. To prove this fact the commissioner was called to give evidence, but under cross-examination during the trial he was unable to recall clearly whether or not the accused actually had a Bible in his hand at the relevant time.

Because the commissioner did not have a clear recollection on this matter, the jury disagreed and a new trial was ordered. The Crown was put to the trouble and expense of two trials, on the second of which the accused changed his plea to " Guilty" when the Crown overcame the obstacle created by the doubts raised on the first trial. The Government brings down this Bill to prevent a repetition of the incident.

I suggest to honorable members that, where a document appears regular on . its face, the maker of the document should not be able to escape conviction· for an offence relating to the document because the commissioner has no present recollection of the circumstances in which the document was sworn. In the case which gave rise to this amend-

·ment th~ ~erjury. proceedings were taken wl~hm about six months of the swearIng of the subject affidavit, but. there would be many cases in WhICh two or three years, perhaps more, would elapse before perjury was detected and the person concerned prosecuted.

Commissioners and others authorized to take affidavits are usually busy people who would have no occasion to notice any particular deponent or document. Honorable members who are justices of the peace or commissioners for taking affidavits will appreciate that comment. When confronted by a document appearing to be signed by him a commissioner would probably hav~ to act on the assumption, in the absence of clear recollection, that if he signed the document he must have been satisfied ·that it was duly and regularly sworn as attested to. The Government feels that an affidavit which purports to be duly sworn should itself be prima facie evidence of that fact, and the Bill proceeds accordingly.

Clause 1 is the usual citation clause. Clause 2 inserts a new section into the Evidence Act 1958 providing for an affidavit to be evidence that it was duly sworn as it purports on the face of it to have been sworn. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. STONEHAM (Midlands), the debate was adjourned.

Mr. G. O. REID (Attorney-General). -I move-

That the debate be adjourned until Tuesday next.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-The debate on the previous Bill, introduced by the Chief Secretary, was adjourned for a fortnight. I should have thought that this Bill represented a departure which should be examined by legally qu,!lified members of the Opposition. In the cir.,. cumstances, I ask the AttorneyGeneral to agree to an adjournment

l

Mloume Harbor Trust !

[5 MARCH, 1968.] (Borrowing Powers) Bill. 3421

of the debate until Wednesday week. The member of the Opposition who ,~ill have charge of the Bill is indisposed.

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) .-1 did not know that the member who will handle the Bill for the Opposition was indisposed. I shall certainly agree to an adjournment for an extra day.

By leave, the motion was withdrawn.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, March 13.

ME.LBOURNE HARBOR TRUST (BORROWING POWERS) BILL. Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public

Works) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

This is one of a number of Bills which regularly appear before the House and which are designed to give additional borrowing powers to one or other of our statutory authorities. In this case it is the Melbourne Harbor Trust. The present limit on the borrowing powers of the Trust is $37,000,000, and when the loan alloca tion for this financial year is taken up, the Trust will have reached the full extent of the borrowing powers approved by this Parliament.

In common with most instrumentalities, the Melbourne Harbor Trust has an expansion scheme which has been approved by the Government and which will require loan funds for its implementation over the next four or five years. During that period, the Trust win be undertaking a heavy capital works programme, including the completion of the Swanson Dock container berths, the widening and deepening of the Yarra river, and a project which I know will be pleasing to the honorable member for Williamstown-the proposed oil dock at Yarraville.

Mr. FLOYD.-It will not please everybody.

Mr. PORTER.-It pleases you and me.

Mr. FLOYD.-It is an improvement. Session 1968.-128

Mr. PORTER.-It is a matter in which both the honorable member and I have been interested for a long time, and I think we can reach agreement on it. It is necessary for the existing oil berth to be moved, and the Melbourne Harbor Trust has a scheme which it is hoped will be commenced in the near future. Other works that the Trust proposes to undertake include the provision of a third berth at the TasmanIan ferry terminal; the provision of berths at North Wharf for the Tasman roll-on roll-off service; and the lowering of the sewer tunnel under the Yarra river, a project that has been talked about since the second world war. As all honorable members will be aware, this is 'subject to a financial agreement under which the Melbourne Harbor Trust, the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works and the State Government each provides a share of the funds required. For the Trust to be able to undertake these necessary works, its borrowing powers must be increased.

At present the Melbourne Harbor Trust is using loan funds at the rate of $2,500,000 per annum. To meet these requirements, even at the existing loan borrowing rate, it will be necessary within the next five years to increase the Trust's borrowing powers from $37,000,000 to $50,000,000.

Every major centre of population and every major centre of commerce and industry is built around the trade of the community, and in this trade a port such as the port of Melbourne plays a tremendous part not only in the interests of those in the city, but in the interests of the State as a whole. It should be realized that the port of Melbourne is one of the major ports of the world. This is demonstrated by the figures contained in the annual report for the last completed year. They show that more than 3,000 vessels of some 22,000,000 tons gross visited Melbourne, that imports through the port were of the order of 7,600,000 tons and that exports were of the order of 3,000,000 tons.

3422 Transport Regulation [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill\..

Mr. FLOYD.-How does Melbourne compare with Sydney?

Mr. PORTER.-When the difference in population is taken into account, Melbourne compares extremely favourably. The port of Melbourne has played a vital part in the development of Victoria, and I am sure that all honorable members hope it will continue to do so. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) , the debate was adjourned.



Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport).-I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. This Bill authorizes the Transport Regulation Board to permit the carriage of goods in taxis, hire cars and buses, and clarifies the Board's powers to govern the dress and appearance of conductors and drivers of commercial passenger vehicles.

For many years the Board has authorized, by condition of licence, the carriage of a limited quantity of goods in commercial passenger vehicles, particularly in buses operating in country areas where the service provided by the buses fills an essential need of the local communities. The board has also permitted the use of taxis and hire cars for the carriage of goods such as urgent medicines, wreaths and documents at times when the vehicle is not being used for the carriage of passengers.

More recently the Board became concerned with a trend to use taxis and hire cars for the carriage of goods ra ther than passengers and, in September of last year, conducted a public inquiry to ascertain the limits which should properly be placed on the use of taxis and hire cars for the carriage of goods. During this inquiry, argument by

\ counsel brought: to light doubts whether, under the terms of the Transport Regulation Act and Como, mercial Goods Vehicles Act, the Board had precif;e powers to allow the movement of any goods on co~-. mercial passenger vehicles.

The purpose of this Bill, together with a Bill to be submitted to amend the Commercial Goods Vehicles Act, is to correct this situation. Clause 2 of the Bill inserts a new paragraph in sub-section (2) of section 23 of the principal Act to give the Board specific power to attach a condition in a passenger vehicle licence allowing the carriage of goods. Paragraph (b) of clause 3 extends the regulation-making power under section 44 of the principal Act to enable regulations to be made concerning the carriage of goods in commercial passenger vehicles when these goods are not in the charge of a passenger or are not being carried under authority of a condition of licence.

I am sure that honorable members will agree that it is essential that some movement of goods should be allowed on commercial passenger vehicles, particularly in country areas where such essential movements of papers, mails, foodstuffs ·and medicines are undertaken daily in a most regular and efficient manner by operators of bus services. It should also be noted that the revenue obtained from the carriage of these goods plays an important part in helping to maintain regular passenger services in many country areas. I remind honorable members that many of these services operate on a small margin.

The use of taxis and hire cars for the carriage of goods is a somewhat different question. There can be little argument that under some circumstances taxis and hire cars can contribute a real service to the public by carrying goods, but this must not be allowed to seriously reduce their availability for the carriage of passengers. I have received representations from the Australian Red Cross

j

Transport Regulation [5 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3423

Society, which is most concerned with the Board's lack of power to authorize the emergency delivery of blood for the society's blood transfusion service.

Mr. FLOYD.-Who objected to the carrying of goods in an emergency, such as on behalf of the Australian Red Cross Society?

Mr. WILCOX.-There is always a conflict, because the normal transport operators become concerned about the carriage of goods by other parties. The Transport Regulation Board wants power to license taxis to carry out such emergency tasks. It was understood that the Board had such power, but in fact the drivers would be committing an offence by exceeding their licences in this way.

Mr. FLOYD.-You want to legalize the matter to cope with emergencies?

Mr. WILCOX.-That is so. The conferring of powers upon the Transport Regulation Board to enable it to authorize the movement of goods on commercial passenger vehicles would, I expect, result in the use of taxis and hire cars for this and other limited purposes, but not so as to conflict with the basic purposes for which these vehicles are licensed.

Paragraph (a) of clause 3 of the Bill amends the Transport Regulation Act to remedy a deficiency in regulation-making powers, and will enable the making of regulations which will empower the Board to take effective action against a minority of drivers whose dress and appearance lower the general standard amongst taxi and bus drivers. Paragraph (b) of sub-section (1) of section 44 of the Transport Regulation Act confers on the Board power to make regulations concerning " the conduct and duties of owners, drivers, conductors and passengers". However, this regulation-making power is not now regarded as adequate to support the existing or any amended regulation governing dress and cleanliness of drivers.

In recent years, the styles and mode of fashions of men's appearance and dress have changed considerably. The Transport Regulation Board has acknowledged this change in authorizing the wearing of shorts by drivers of taxis and hire cars during summer months. However, there must be some control over the dress and appearance of drivers of public passenger vehicles to enable action to be taken against those few drivers who do not measure up to the standards required by the community. Melbourne has a transport service of which it can justly be proud, and it is essential that drivers and conductors of vehicles engaged in carrying passengers should be properly attired. Over the years my children have travelled to school on privatelyoperated buses. I have found that often the drivers become very good friends of the ohildren whom they carry on their buses. Paragraph (a) of clause 3 of the Bill will empower the Board to take effective action against a minority of drivers whose dress and appearance lower the general standard amongst taxi and bus drivers.

To summarize, this Bill is intended to correct a deficiency in the Transport Regulation Act in relation to the Transport Regulation Board's powers to attach conditions to licences, and to give the Governor in Council power to make regulations in two essential areas-the carriage of goods in com·mercial passenger vehicles, and the dress and cleanliness of drivers of these vehicles. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown), the debate was adjourned.



Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport).-I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. This Bill is complementary to clause 2 and paragraph (b) of clause 3

3424 Children's Welfare [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

of the Bill to amend the Transport Regulation Act 1958 which I have just explained. Amendment of the Commercial Goods Vehicles Act is required if the considerable service given by commercial passenger vehicles, especially by buses in country areas, is to be maintained. Honorable members will be aware that buses in these areas perform a valuable service in the carriage of mails, newspapers, parcels and foodstuffs.

In explaining the Bill to ,amend the Transport Regulation Act, I said that a public inquiry, conducted by the Transport Regulation Board to investigate the extent to which taxis and hire cars should be permitted to carry goods, had brought to light doubts as to the Board's ability to authorize the carriage of goods at all. It is essential that the Board should have this ability, and the amendments to the Transport Regulation Act will give it the appropriate power.

However, a complementary amendment to the Commercial Goods Vehicles Act is required. Section 3 of that Act defines a commercial goods vehicle, and section 6 requires that any vehicle used for the carriage of goods shall be licensed under the Act. A taxi, hire car or bus used to carry goods not -in the charge of passengers w-ould therefore have to be licensed as well. However, section 12A of the Act provides that there shall not be two licences current for the one vehicle, whether under the Transport Regulation Act or the Commercial Goods Vehicles Act. If a person could hold two licences, the administration of the Acts would be rendered most difficult.

So that a limited amount of goods carrying can be authorized on a commercial passenger vehicle, this Bill proposes the brief amendment to the definition of a commercial goods vehicle. I commend the measure to the House.

On the motion of Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown), the debate was adjourned.

Mr. Wilcox.


CHILDREN'S WELFARE (AMENDM.ENT) BILL.

Mr. MANSON (M'inister of State Development).-I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. I ts purpose is to-

(a) permit the payment of arrears of maintenance by instalments, and

(b) create an offence of leaving a child without making reasonable provision for supervision and care of the child.

Under section 43 of the Children's Welfare Act 1958, every parent of any child who is admitted to the care of the Social Welfare Branch is liable to pay to the DirectorGeneral of Social Welfare towards the maintenance of the child a periodical sum fixed by order of the court or by order of any two justices in or out of sessions. Many parents default in their payments and cannot be located for some years. The arrears of maintenance often amount to hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Under section 52 of the Act, such arrears may be recovered before a Court of Petty Sessions. If the parent does not pay the amount due within seven days, or prove to the satisfaction of the court that he has not then and has not had since the making of the order against him sufficient means and ability to pay the amount due, he is liable to be imprisoned.

Payment of the arrears within seven days is impossible in most cases, and the provision is considered to be harsh. On the recommendation of a conference of stipendiary m,agistrates, the Government proposes to ameliorate the law on defaulters by amending section 52 to enable the court to allow payment of arrears within such time or by such instalments as it thinks fit. Clause 2 of the Bill amends section 52 -accordingly.

Adjournment. [5 MARCH, 1968.] Adjournment. 3425

Clause 3 inserts a new section in the Aot as the result of a recommendation by the committee which investigated allegations of neglect and maltreatment of young children. The new section makes it an offence for ,a parent, guardian or person having the control and charge of a child, to leave that child without reasonable supervisioQn and care for an unreasonable time having regard to all the circumst'ances of the case. The maximum penalty for the offence is $200 or impris'onment for a term of three months. The question as to what constitutes an unreasoQnable time or reasonable supervisioQn is, of course, a matter for the courts to determine on the facts of the case.

On the motion of Mr. WILKES (Northcote), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjoQurned until Wednesday, March 13.

ADJOURNMENT. TULLAMARINE FREEWAY: BLASTING

OPERATIONS - VICTORIAN INLAND MEAT AUTHORITY: CLOSURE OF SHEPPARTON ABATTOIRS-EDUCATION DEPARTMENT: PRESCRIBED TEXT-BOOKS.

Mr. MANSON (Minister of State Development).-I move-

That the House, at its rising, adjoum until to-morrow, at half-past Ten o'clock.

The motion was agreed to. Mr. MANSON (Minister of State

DeveloQpment).-1 move-That the House do now adjourn. Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).

I direct the attention of the Minister of Mines and the Minister 'Of Public Works to a problem in relation toQ Tullamarine Freew1ay within the electorate of MoQonee Ponds. The bridge-works for the Dean-street over-pass, which is one of the major works on the freeway within my electorate, are about to commence. Construction works on the sewer have been completed and the problem now is one of blasting by the contractors.

There have been repeated complaints from residents near these works. The con tractors constructing the sewerage works have carried out blasting operations, and houses have been damaged. These homes have been inspected by representatives of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, who agreed that the damage to the homes was caused by blasting. Bridge works are now being carried out, and further blasting is being undertaken. I should like to be assured that the Mines Department will be alert to this problem and that no further damage will be done to the homes.

The Mines Department has carried out tests to measure the damage caused by the blasting. I direct attention to the fact that damage was caused to the brick veneer home of a totally and permanently incapacitated serviceman. The Department carried out tests 280 feet from his home, but the actual blasting took place only 10 feet away. I should like the Department to be informed of the circumstances of this case. Further tests should be made in closer proximity to the damage. The Department should also ensure that the charges used by contractors are not excessive for the work to be done.

I also point out that considerable inconvenience was caused, over a long period of time, to residents, particularly parents with young children, by the contractors turning off the water supply without warning.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Shep-parton) .-1 direct the attention of the Premier and the responsible Ministers to the fact that the Shepparton shire abattoirs ceased operations today. Unfortunately, the shire was not notified by the Victorian Inland Meat Authority until yesterday, and as from to-day 105 men are unemployed. It is not difficult to realize the effect that this will have on the City of Shepparton and the Goulburn Valley district.

This decentralized industry was opened last November through the close co-operation of the Govern-

3426 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

ment, the Victorian Inland Meat Authority and the shire. It is extraordinary that the Authority should close down the abattoirs and give the shire virtually one day's notice. To the best of my knowledge, the Government, which has a financial interest in the abattoirs, received no notice.

Mr. MANSoN.-That is so. Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS.-I ask the

Government to give urgent consideration to the circumstances surrounding the closure of the abattoirs. It should confer with the Victorian Inland Meat Authority and the Shire of Shepparton with a view to the abattoirs being reopened.

Mr. SUGGETT (BentIeigh).-Last week, on the adjournment of the sitting, I rose to speak on the subject to which I shall now refer, and when I did so all honorable members rose to their feet at the same time. Although I was expecting a standing ovation, to my amazement they all walked out of the House. Perhaps I am largely closing the stable door after the horse has left, but I direct attention to a letter published in the Herald of the 27th February from a Mrs. M. Gay of Marlborough-street, East Bentleigh-a struggling widow -who directed attention to the nonavailability of certain prescribed books for her son's matriculation course.

I spoke to the Minister of Education on this matter and he has ordered a departmental inquiry, and I should like to commend him on his prompt action. The nonavailability of prescribed text-books is a bone of contention with many parents. Mrs. Gay pointed out that last year a prescribed text-book, Elements of Geography, by Finch and Trewartha, was completely unavailable. Her son managed to borrow a copy of the book for one night only, during which time he did not go to bed but spent the whole night copying out notes. The departmental inquiry now being undertaken should be extended into the general subject of prescribed text-books.

When I went to school, it was the standard procedure to buy secondhand books for use. Is it necessary to have the curriculum changed each year and for different text-books to be prescribed? These are most expensive items. I believe it is not entirely necessary for text-books to be changed each year. One almost wonders whether vested interests are involved. The idea of prescribing books, particularly novels, is to give matriculants a better appreciation of literature, and to enable them to describe a piece of literature in their own words. Surely it is not necessary to change the books every year. The same situation applies in primary schools; the books in use at one school may be entirely different from those used in a school only a few suburbs away.

Mr. J. D. MACDoNALD.-That applies also to universities.

Mr. SUGGETT.-That is so. This matter is under the control of the Universities and Schools Examination Board on which are represenatives of the Education Department. The position should be carefully examined to ensure greater economy for the parents without impairing the educational progress which we all expect. Some better deal should be given to parents. Some schools provide sets of books and make a small charge to the children for a loan of those books.

Mrs. Gay received a wonderful response from the people of Victoria; she was inundated with letters and telephone calls offering help. That action is typical of the Victorian community; when people are in trouble, whether on a national or a domestic scale, someone is always ready and willing to help. It is most encouraging to know that there are such fine people in the State. This problem affects not only Mrs. Gay but also other parents. Therefore, I suggest that the Minister of Education should extend the scope of the inquiry he has ordered to cover all aspects of books prescribed for students.

Stamp Duty. [6 MARCH, 1968.] Melbourne"Water Supply. 3427

Mr. MANSON (Minister of State Development) .-Both the honorable member for Moonee Ponds and the honorable member for Bentleigh have raised matters of great importance which I shall draw to the attention of the Minister of Mines, the Minister of Public Works and the Minister of Education. I have no doubt that these honorable gentlemen will with expedition and success deal with the matters which have been raised.

The honorable member for Shepparton asked me to direct the attention of the Premier and the Minister for Local Government to a problem relating to Shepparton and the abattoirs located in that city. This problem also concerns me as Minister of State Development. I am tremendously interested in the development of local country industries, and I assure the honorable member that not only will I ask the Premier and the Minister for Local Government to do something about this matter but also that I will try to do something about it myself. I assure honorable members that the Government will not be remiss in meeting its obligations on the matters which have been raised, and there will be no time lag in bringing the matters to the notice of the respective Ministers.

The motion was agreed to. The House adjourned at 9.2 p.m.

i!jtgililnline Assembly. Wednesday, March 6, 1968.

The SPEAKER· (the Hon. Vernon Christie) took the chair at 11.8 a.m., and read the prayer.

STAMP DUTY. CORRESPONDENCE WITH

COMMONWEALTH GOVERNMENT. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) asked the PremierWhether, in view of the public release of

details of correspondence between himself and the Prime Minister on the stamps tax

proposal, he will now table all correspondence and all memoranda, notes, &c., dealing with the discussions between the Prime Minister and him in respect of this tax?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-As requested, the correspondence which has been exchanged between the Prime Minister and myself on the subject has been laid on the table of the Library.

MELBOURNE WATER SUPPLY. EMERGENCY MEASURES.

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Premier-

Whether, in view of the serious statements made recently in the press relative to the shortage of water supply to the metropolis, he will inform the House of the Government's proposals to meet a case of extreme emergency?

For Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer), Mr. Rylah (Chief Secretary) .-The answer is-

This Parliament has constituted the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works as the authority responsible for the supply of water to the metropolis. The chairman of the Board recently published a statement about the present situation in the event of a second year of drought, indicating that water supplies could still be maintained to Melbourne provided that the use of water was strictly controlled.

The water situation is being kept under constant review, and further emergency measures will be introduced if conditions require it.

INDUSTRIAL USE OF WATER. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) asked the Premier-Whether, in view of the continuation of

the drought and the current predictions of weather experts, the Government has(a) further emergency plans to supplement Melbourne's failing water supplies; if so, what plans; and (b) considered more drastic restrictions on the industrial use of water other than merely seeking the cooperation of various industries?


The water situation is being kept under constant review along with possible emergency plans to augment or conserve existing supplies. The Government is intent on maintaining maximum employment and would not approve restrictions on industry which would affect output and employment unless conditions made it unavoidable.

3428 Drought [ASSEMBLY.] Situation.

DROUGHT SITUATION. EFFECT ON SMALL BUSINESSES IN

METROPOLITAN AREA.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) asked the Premier-

Whether, despite the statement by the Minister of Lands that no record of commercial activity in the metropolitan area is kept, the Government will consider some form of drought relief to proprietors of small businesses in the metropolitan area who can prove they have been forced out of business as a direct result of the drought?


In the final analysis a disastrous drought affects all members of the community in varying degrees, but businesses in the metropolitan area have more opportunities to diversify their activities, and the Government is using all available resources to assist those in rural areas where the effects of drought are most severe.

LOANS TO FARMERS: INTEREST: ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.


1. Whether, in view of the continuation of the drought and its effect on the farming industry, the Government will consider making available, interest free, the loan money available to farmers from the Commonwealth Government?

2. Whether the Government is prepared to shoulder the responsibility for capital losses and administrative costs involved in the administration of the loan money, instead of charging the farmers 3 per cent. interest? : I'


The arrangements between the Commonwealth and Victoria on finance for drought relief are consistent with the arrangements which apply in other States. These arrangements provide for loans to farmers at 3 per cent. interest, and the State being responsible for all administrative costs and capital losses. The Government is unable to depart from these arrangements.

RURAL UNEMPLOYMENT.


1. Whether he sought permission from the Commonwealth Department of Labour and National Service to release, for publication, figures for rural areas concerning unemployment caused directly by the drought; if not, why?

2. In the event that he has unsuccessfully sought release of these figures, what reason (if any) the Commonwealth Government has given for withholding the information?


1. and 2. No. The Government arranged for as much information as possible on the unemployment position in drought areas to be supplied by the Commonwealth Department of Labour and National Service on a regular basis. As indicated by my colleague last week, the Department agreed to supply the information on the understanding that it was strictly confidential and would not be published. The Government intends to honour this undertaking.

RELIEF WORKS PROGRAMMES: EXPENDITURE DETAILS.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister of Lands-

Whether he will give a detailed breakdown of the expenditure of works programmes in country towns initiated to prevent unemployment in terms of - (a) major works not planned before the drought; (b) major works which were planned before the drought; and (c) minor works of clearance and maintenance, which would be carried out whe~her or not drought conditions prevailed?

Sir WILLIAM McDONALD (Minister of Lands) .-The answer is-

I have already supplied the honorable member with a great deal of detail of works in country areas to relieve unemployment due to drought.

It has been the Government's wish to ensure that works so initiated be of the most valuable and lasting nature possible in the circumstances. A great majority of the works which have a lasting value had already involved a degree of planning, ranging from the preliminary to those more fully developed. Some were planned by Government Departments and instrumentalities and others by municipalities, and all details would not be readily available.

In relation to minor works which are initiated to pick up urgent pockets of unemployment, prior detailed planning has not always been possible, but every endeavour is made to ensure that men engaged in the latter works are an increment to the work force which would ordinarily be employed on these projects.

Child Care. [6 MARCH, 1968.] Social Welfare Branch. 3429

CHILD CARE. REGISTRATION OF CHILD CARE

WORKERS: REPORT.

Mr. WILKES (N orthcote) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether the report of the DirectorGeneral of Social Welfare on the registration of child care workers will be made available to members; if so, when?


This matter will be considered when the report of the Director-General has been received.

CHILDREN'S HOMES: STAFF TRAINING.

Mr. WILKES (North cote) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether as a condition of its approval of childre~'s homes, the Social Welfare Branch will make it mandatory that the child care staff of these homes attend the courses conducted by the Branch for child care officers?


Yes, as an ultimate objective, but certainly not immediately as no children's home could be expected to release large numbers of its staff at the one time to attend training courses.

SOCIAL WELFARE. MUNICIPAL STAFFS: SUBSIDIES.


Whether he has considered subsidizing the salaries of professional social workers attached to municipal councils to assist in the prevention of social welfare problems at a "grass roots" level; if not, whether he will give consideration to subsidies along the same lines as subsidies to local home help and meals on wheels services?


This proposal has been considered and certainly not discarded. However, we are faced to-day with a shortage of social workers to even fill existing positions and there are many other and more pressing demands on available funds. The proposal will be kept under close consideration.

SOCIAL WELFARE BRANCH. FAMILY GROUP HOMES.


Referring to his answer to question No. 16 asked in this House on the 27th February

last, that the last Social Welfare Branch family group home was opened in Ararat in May, 1961, and that the next family group home would be opened in Northcote when loan funds were available; what is the reason for this time lapse of seven years in the Social Welfare Branch family group home programme?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).I seek leave to have this answer incorporated in Hansard without my reading it.


The Branch's programme has included the building of further family group homes, but funds provided have not been sufficient to meet this purpose as well as others of higher priority .

During this period we have purchased and renovated "Aschendene" family home for 30 boys and" Illoura ", a family home for boys and girls, and we have carried out extensive additions at "Allambie" in the Family Welfare Division apart from meeting the Branch's substantial commitments for a completely new youth training centre at Malmsbury, a new prison at Ararat and extensions at "Turana ", " Dhurringile ", and" Won Wron ".

STAFF: PRIORITIES: COMMITTEE OF

INQUIRY.

Mr. WILKES (North cote) asked the Chief Secretary-

With reference to the special committee appointed to examine staffing needs and priorities within the Social Welfare Branch(a) who comprises the committee, and what are its terms of reference; (b) to whom this committee will report; and (c) whether its findings will be made available to members of Parliament?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).I seek leave to have the answer incorporated in Hansard without being read.


(a) Mr. T. Gleeson, Assistant Budget Officer, Works Programme, Treasury; Mr. D. Thomas, Assistant Budget Inspector, Treasury; Mr. R. L. Underwood, Research Officer, Chief Secretary's Department; Mr. R. Borelli, Methods Inspector, Chief Secretary's Department; Mr. B. A. Rush, Acting Administration Officer, Social Welfare Branch; Mr. H. M. G. Macphee, Officer in Charge, Stores and Property, Social Welfare Branch.

3430 Melbourne and Metropolitan [ASSEMBLY.] , Board of Works.

The committee will inquire into and report upon the immediate and future financial needs of all Divisions of the Social Welfare Branch having regard to staffing, accommodation, and the operating costs of jnstitu tions.

(b) The report will be made jointly to'the Under-Secretary and the Director of Finance.

(c) No decision has been made but it is not usual to publish inter-depar.tmental reports.

CHILD CRUELTY: UNATTENDED CHILDREN : RECORDS.


Whether in view of the statement that no records are kept by the police or the Social Welfare Branch of the numbers of children left unattended by parents ~or long periods, or the numbers of cases of child cruelty reported, he will arrange for such records to be kept by the police or the records to be kept in the future and forwarded to the central registry so that a more accurate assessment of the size of this problem can be made?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).The answer is "Yes ".

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF

WORKS. WATER POLICY.

Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh) asked the Minister of Public Works" for the Minister for Local Government-

1. What sub-committee or committee within the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works is responsible for advising the Board on water policy and related matters?

2. Who are the Commissioners who served on that sub-committee or committee over the last twelve months, and which municipalities they represent?

For Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works), Mr. Rylah (Chief Secretary) .-The answerr. supplied by the Minister for Local Government are-

1. The Water Supply Committee. 2 Mr. A. Croxford (chairman).

Commissioner M. H. Fennell (Port Melbourne).

Commissioner J. P. Mutton (Broad-meadows).

Commissioner J. J. Ginifer (Altona). Commissioner P. Vergers (Ringwood). Commissioner A. P. Donnelly (Oak-

leigh) .

Commissioner K. E. Miller (Dandenong).

Commissioner K. P. Hardiman (Preston) .

Commissioner R. G. Chisholm (Sandringham).

Commissioner A. H. Kleinert (Knox).

ELECTORAL. LISTING OF CANDIDATES' NAMES ON

BALLOT-PAPERS.

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether his attention has been drawn to a statement in the Herald newspaper of 29th February, last, concerning a proposal to amend The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958 to allow the position of candidates' names on the ballot-paper to be determined by ballot after nominations have closed, instead of the present system whereby names are listed on ballot-papers in alphabetical order; if so, what action the Government intends to take in this regard?


I am aware of the report in the Herald of the 29th February last regarding determination by ballot of the positions of candIdates' names on ballot-papers at State elections. Consideration will be given to the matter in due course.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. SUNBURY HEIGHTS STATE SCHOOL:

ADDITIONAL CLASS-ROOMS.


1. When the contract was let for the additional class-rooms for the Sunshine Heights Primary School?

2. Who was the successful tenderer, what was the amount of the tender, and when work will commence?

For Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry), Mr. Manson (Minister of State Development).The answers supplied by the Minister of Education are-

Tenders have not been invited recently for additional class-rooms at Sunshine Heights Primary School. Additions at the school are included in the Department's building programme but the priority is such that tenders will not be invited during this financial year. The building programme is currently under review. In the meantime, two portable class-rooms are being used at the school and the allocation of an additional portable class-room to the school will be considered shortly.

Gee/(mg West [6 MARCH, 1968.] City Council. 3431

HERNE HILL LAND.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Education-

1. When the Education Department purchased an area of land in Heytesburystreet, Herne Hill, what was the cost, and what is the area of such land?

2. Whether the Department has any plans in the foreseeable future to develop this site; if so, approximately when a!ld f~r wh~t purpose; if not, whether consIderatIon WIll be given to allowing this area to be leased by the Geelong West City Council for development for recreational purposes, until such time as required by the Education Department?

For Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry), Mr. Manson (Minister of State Development).The answers supplied by the Minister of Education are-

1. 5 acres 2 roods 1 perch, purchased 15th April, 1958, for $21,000.

2. Yes, for a primary school-it is not possible at this time to state when tenders will be invited for the building of the school.

Consideration will be given to allowing the area to be leased by the Geelong West City Council for development for recreational purposes until such time as required by the Education Department. This would be subject to satisfactory conditions, e.g., financial consideration, &c.

BROADMEADOWS WEST: TENDERS FOR TECHNICAL SCHOOL: PROVISION OF FOOTBRIDGE: SITE FOR PRIMARY SCHOOL.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Education-

1. When tenders will be called for the building of the Broadmeadows West Technical School?

2. Whether an overhead pedestrian footbridge will be built to provide a safe crossing of Johnson-street?

3. Whether a site for a primary school ha!; been reserved in this area?

For Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of La.bour and Industry), Mr. Manson (Minister of State Development).The answers supplied by the Minister of Education are-

1. It is expected that tenders will be called towards the end of 1968.

2. This is a matter for joint consideration by the Traffic Commission, the Broadmeadows City Council, the Local Government Department and the Country Roads Board.

3. Yes.

GEELONG WEST CITY COUNCIL. FINANCIAL ALLOCATIONS FROM TRANSPORT REGULATION BOARD.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. In each year since 1955, what amounts of finance have been allocated by the Transport Regulation Board to the City of Geelong West for street maintenance on private bus routes in that city, indicating from what source such funds were derived?

2. Whether such funds are still collected and distributed by the Transport Regulation Board; if not, why?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The answers are lengthy and of a statistical nature, and I therefore seek leave for their incorporation in Hansard without my reading them.


1. Finance allocated by the Transport Regulation Board to the City of Geelong West for street maintenance on private bus routes in that city since 1955 is as follows:-

1954-55

1955-56

1956-57

1957-58

1958-59

1959-60

1960-61

1961-62

1962-63

1963-64

1964-65

1965-66

1966-67

Financial Year. Amount.

$

1,627.20

534.86

1,351.89

1,059.62

819.75

461.72

482.24

306.04

298.18

163.48

116.41

Nil

Nil

3432 Essential Services [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

The Transport Regulation Act, section 41, requires that licence fees collected from omnibuses which operate on routes wholly within the urban district of Geelong shall, after deducting costs of collection and relevant administration expenses, be apportioned between municipalities comprising the urban district in proportion to the mileage travelled by these buses in each municipality.

2. These fees are still collected by the Transport Regulation Board, but as licence fees have not been increased since 1952 and costs of collection have substantially increased over this period, disbursement of fees to the municipalities in the urban district of Geelong has not been made in the last two years because the costs of collection and administration expenses have far exceeded the funds available.

ESSENTIAL SERVICES (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The notice of motion that Mr. G. O. Reid (Attorney-General) have leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Essential Services Act was called on.

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) .-1 declare this Bill to be an urgent Bill, and 1 move-

That the Bill be considered an urgent Bill.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 should have thought that, before the Minister moved his motion that the Bill be declared urgent, it would be appropriate for the honorable gentleman to inform the House and you, Mr. Speaker, why he believes this Bill should be regarded as an urgent measure.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! There can be no debate on this question.

Mr. HOLDING.-J appreciate that, Sir, but, notice of motion to bring in this Bill having been called on, there was nothing to prevent the Minister from informing the House of the reasons for the introduction of the Bill, and then to move an urgency motion~ The Attorney-General has chosen the course he has followed because he realizes that under the Standing Orders there can be no

debate on the matter. I consider that the Attorney-General's action in moving this motion and not being prepared to give reasons why the House should adopt it, shows a callous disregard for the prerogatives of this House.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine).Mr. Speaker--

The SPEAKER.-Order! There can be no debate on the motion. The honorable member may speak only on a point of order.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I wish to raise a point of order. 1 refer the House to the genesis of the Essential Services Act and to the Hansard report of the 15th January, 1948, which appears at page 633 of volume 226. On that occasion, the then Premier, Mr. Hollway, prefaced the moving of a motion similar to that now proposed by the AttomeyGeneral, by a Ministerial statement on the tramway strike.

In view of the precedents of that description and other precedents, both in the Victorian Parliament and in the Mother of Parliaments, it seems incredible that the Government, which has all day to discuss this matter-if it has the intestinal fortitude to do so-desires to declare this Bill urgent without making any statement to Parliament and the people, apart from the wild utterances of the Premier.

Mr. HOLDING.-Outside Parliament.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-Yes. My point, Mr. Speaker, is that you should rule that some Minister should now make a statement giving reasons why this House should accept the motion of urgency.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I take great note of the points raised by the Leader of the Opposition and the honorable member for Sunshine, but Standing Order 78F of this House expressly provides that a Minister may declare a Bill

Essential Services [6 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3433

urgent and my next action is to ask whether twenty members rise in their places to support the Minister. If twenty members indicate their approval there is ample precedent in the activities of this House over the years for the Bill then to be accepted by the Speaker as being urgent. 1 know of no power that 1 have to compel a Minister to make a statement on behalf of the Government and for the sake of the House. 1 need to follow precedent and to act according to the rules of the House. Provided that twenty members rise in their places in accordance with Standing Order 78F, 1 accept the motion that the Attorney-General has put that the Bill be declared an urgent Bill.

Approval of the motion being put was indicated by the required number of members rising in their places as specified in Standing Order 78F.

The House divided on the motion (the Hon. Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 41 Noes 24

Majority for the motion 17

AYES.

Mr. Balfour Mr. Birrell Sir John Bloomfield Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Borthwick Mr. Dixon Mr. Doyle Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Sir William McDonald Mr. McKellar Mr. McLaren Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid

(Box Hill)

Mr. Reid (Dandenong)

Mr. Rylah Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

( Warmambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Mr. Tanner

(MorwelV) Mr. Tanner

( Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Templeton Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Billing Mr. Smith

(Bellarine).

NOES.

Mr. Clarey Mr. Cochrane Mr. Divers Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mr. Fennessy Mr. Floyd Mr. Ginifer Mr. Holding Sir Herbert Hyland Dr. Jenkins Mr. Lovegrove Mr. McDonald

(Rodney)

Mr. Moss Mr. Mutton Mr. Ring Mr. Stirling Mr. Stoneham Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise Mr. Whiting

, Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Edmunds Mr. Ross-Edwards.

PAIRS.

Mr. Darcy Mr. Rossiter I

Mr. Sutton Mr. Turnbull.


That the Attorney-General and the Premier have leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Essential Services Act 1958.


Ayes Noes

41 24


AYES.




(Box Hill)

Mr. Reid (Dandenorng)


(Warmambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr .. Suggett Mr. Tanner


(Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Templeton Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

T,ellers :

Mr. Billing Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) •


NOES.



(Rodney)

Mr. Moss Mr. Mutton Mr. Ring Mr. Stirling Mr. Stoneham Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

T.ellers : Mr. Edmunds Mr. Ross-Edwards.

PAIRs.

Mr. Darcy Mr. Rossiter I Mr. Sutton

Mr. Turnbull.

The Bill was brought in. Mr. G. O. REID (Attorney

General) .-1 move-That the time allotted in connexion with

the Bill be as follows:-

(a) For the initial stages of the Bill, up to, but not inclusive of, the second reading of the Bill, until Four o'clock this day;

(b) For the second reading stage of the Bill, until Ten o'clock this day;

(c) For the Committee stage of the Bill, until Ten-thirty o'clock this day;

(d) For the remaining stages of the Bill, until Eleven o'clock this day.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).I second the motion.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Before putting the question, I remind those honorable members who may not be fully conversant with the Standing Orders that Standing Order 78F (d) provides that this motion may be debated for one hour, and that in speaking thereon no member may exceed ten minutes.


Ayes 41 Noes 25

Majority for motion

the 16

AYES.




(Box Hill)



(Warmambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Mr. Tanner


(Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Templeton Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Billing Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) .

NOES.



(Rodney) Mr. Moss

Mr. Mutton Mr. Ring Mr. Stirling Mr. Stoneham Mr. Sutton Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Edmunds Mr. Ross-Edwards.

PAm. Mr. Rossiter I Mr. Turnbull.


That this Bill be now read a first time. Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine).-I

raise a point of order. Press reports to-day indicate that the State Electricity Commission has issued summonses for contempt against a body called the Municipal Officers' Association. In the absence of any statement by the Minister in explanation of the motion of urgency, I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to rule whether the Government can be in contempt if the dispute between the Commission and the Association is discussed, when


the Commission has already referred the matter to the Commonwealth Industrial Court, a judicial body. I ask whether the matter is sub judice.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-My ruling would be that the discussion on this Bill would not be sub judice. This is a matter for an industrial tribunal, and this Bill; presumably, deals with an entirely different matter, and not the specific matter referred to by the honorable member.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-On a point of order, the preliminary comments made by the Premier, who we understand is seconding the introduction of this Bill, indicated that the Bill is directly related to action.s by the Municipal .Officers' Association, which organization is now involved in contempt proceedings in an arbitral court at the instance of the State Electricity Commission. I should think that it would be open to you, as it is to every honorable member, to take cognizance of the fact that the Premier has stated that the Government is introducing this Bill to deal with what he termed the attitude of officers of the Association. The honorable member for Sunshine has pointed out that the Government, presumably through the AttorneyGeneral. or perhaps through the Minister for Fuel and Power, has directed the State Electricity Commission to institute other proceedings in another place. Honorable members want to know whether there will be two sets of proceedings, one before this House and one in another place; and, further, whether the Government also intends to canvass these issues in respect of this Bill?

The SPEAKER.-In reply to the Leader of the Opposition, I support the ruling I have already given by quoting from May, at page 396 of the 17th edition, which states-

Matters pending judicial decisions.-A matter, awaiting or under adjudication by a court of law, should not be brought before the House by a motion or otherwise. This rule does not apply to bills.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-On a further point of order, may I refresh your memory, Mr. Speaker, on a ruling given in this Parliament during a debate on a wages case which was before the court. The former Speaker ruled that because the case was before the Industrial Court, it was not competent for Parliament to discuss the effects, or the merits or demerits of the matter and was therefore sub judice. The Leader of the Opposition and the honorable member for Sunshine have submitted similar views. The matter is now before the court and Parliament is being asked to discuss something which is subject to a decision of the court.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).-I rise to a further point of order. On previous occasions discussion was not allowed on the cases of the Port Melbourne and the Footscray oneman bus disputes because the matter was sub judice. On those occasions the Opposition submitted a motion in writing to the House, and the Government knew what was going to be debated. The Opposition does not know what is in the present Bill, and neither do you, Mr. Speaker. How can you rule that the matter is not sub judice when you do not know what is in the Bill?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I am grateful to honorable members. There is a distinct and important difference. The honorable member for Williamstown rightly points out that there was a motion before this House on the question of the one-man bus dispute, but in the view of the previous Speaker the one-man bus dispute interfered with that. That was a motion before the House and not a Bill. This is a Bill before the House, and I have just quoted May to support my ruling.

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East). -I rise to a further point of order, Mr. Speaker. Do I take it that, having given your ruling, it is your intention to ensure that the matter which is now before the Industrial Court between the State Electricity


Commission and the Municipal Officers' Association cannot be canvassed or discussed during the debate on the motion before the House?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I have made my ruling quite plain. It seems to be fair and reasonable, and in accordance with precedents and practices prior to this. I cannot specifically or fully answer that question now, except to say that this is a Bill and it is not in the same position as a motion like the previous matter brought forward.


Ayes 40 Noes 25

Majority for motion

the 15

AYES.

Mr. Balfour Mr. Billing Mr. Birrell Sir John Bloomfield Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Borthwick Mr. Dixon Mr. Doyle Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. McKellar Mr. McLaren Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid




( Warrnambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Mr. Tanner


( Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Jona

(Box Hill) Mr. Templeton.

NOES.

Mr. Clarey Mr. Cochrane Mr. Divers Mr. Edmunds Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mr. Fennessy Mr. Floyd Mr. Holding Sir Herbert Hyland Dr. Jenkins Mr. Lovegrove Mr. McDonald

(Rodney)

Mr. Moss Mr. Ring Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Stirling Mr. Stoneham Mr. Sutton Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Ginifer Mr. Mutton.

PAIR.

Mr. Rossiter· I Mr. Turnbull.

The Bill was read a first time.

Mr. G. O. REID (Attorn(!yGeneral) .-1 move-

That this Bill be read a second time this day.


Ayes Noes

Majority for motion

AYES.

the

Mr. Balfour Mr. Reid

40 25

15

Mr. Billing (Dandenong) Mr. Birrell Mr. Rylah Sir John Bloomfield Mr. Scanlan Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Smith Mr. Borthwick (Bellarine) Mr. Dixon Mr. Smith Mr. Doyle (Warrnambool) Mr. Dunstan Mr. Stephen Mr. Evans Mr. Stokes

(Ballaarat North) Mr. Suggett Mrs. Goble Mr. Tanner Mr. Hayes (Morwell) Mr. Loxton Mr. Tanner Mr. MacDonald (Caulfield)

(Glen Iris) Mr. Taylor Mr. McKellar Mr. Trethewey Mr. McLaren Mr. Vale Mr. Manson Mr. Wheeler Mr. Meagher Mr. Wilcox Mr. Porter Mr. Wiltshire. Mr. Rafferty I Mr. Reese Tellers: Mr. Reid Mr. Jona

(Box Hill) Mr. Templeton.

NOES.

Mr. Clarey Mr. Moss Mr. Cochrane Mr. Ring Mr. Divers Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Edmunds Mr. Stirling Mr. Evans Mr. Stoneham

(Gippsland East) Mr. Sutton Mr. Fennessy Mr. Trewin Mr. Floyd Mr. Trezise Mr. Holding Mr. Whiting Sir Herbert Hyland Mr. Wilkes Dr. Jenkins Mr. Wilton. Mr. Lovegrove . Tellers: Mr. McDonald Mr. Ginifer

(Rodney) I Mr. Mutton.

PAIR.

Mr. Rossiter I Mr. Turnbull.


Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) .---1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time.

It is almost exactly twenty years since the Victorian Parliament 'considered and passed the Essential Services Act 1948, which this present Bill seeks to amend. There are still some members of the House who, like myself, remember some of the circumstances of that time and who were present when that legislation was enacted. That legislation was introduced to deal with a very serious situation that had arisen in the State because of the irresponsible strike action that had been taken, especially in the fields of transport wherecomlmunist-Ied unions were ignoring the wishes of their members and stirring up a state of anarchy. Honorable members will recall that that legislation was introduced by the HoHway-McDonald composite Liberal and Country Party Government. The legislation was naturally designed to meet the particular problems of the period, and it is necessary to revise the legislation in the light of circumstances existing to-day.

It might be opportune to outline the broad principles of the existing legislation before dealing with the details of the Bill. Broadly speaking, the Essential Services Act, as enacted in 1948, apart from some small amendments which are not relevant :to this discussion, falls into two portions. One part of the Act, section 4 to section 10, deals with the declaration of a state of emergency. The other main part of the Act, from section 11 onwards, provides for the taking of a secret ballot of the members of a union before strike action is taken. I emphaSize that the existing legislation falls into these two compartments because it is apparent that there is some misunderstanding about it. In an article in the Age this morning there is much criticism of the Government which is based on mis-information. There are two wrong assumptions. The article assumes that, under the present Act, a declaration of a state of emergency depends, first, upon a secret ballot being taken.

That is not so. The two compartments of the Act are quite separate. The article in the Age is also incorrect in suggesting that the Government intends to abolish the system of secret ballots, as will appear as I develop my explanation of the terms of the Bill.

Unfortunately, there 'is to-day a tendency for so'me unions to ignore the well-established systems of conciliation and arbitration, and, indeed, to ignore the employer and to rest their claims upon their ability to strike at the welfare of every 'man in the community whether he be worker or employer.

It is not possible for this Parliament to interfere in the fields of conciliation and arbitration in relation to disputes which are within the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth ConciliaNon and Arbitration Commission and the Commonwealth Industrial Court, but in my view, and in the view of the advisers of my Department, this State has not Dnly the power but the duty to ensure peace in this State and to promote the welfare of every citizen of this State.

It should be borne in mind-and this is the keynote of the measurethat within the Commonwealth, and throughout the States, there are various industrial tribunals which are designed to settle industrial disputes between the parties. In the general industrial administration, it appears that the third party concerned-the public-is forgotten. It is to vindicate the rights of the public that this Bill has been brought forward. Earlier to-day, suggestions were made that there is no need for urgency in this matter.

Mr. HDLDING.-Tell us the need. Mr. G. O. REID.-If the Leader of

the Opposition would read the newspapers of last night and this morning, he would see references to' four industrial disputes which threaten to imperil the well-being of citizens of this State. Two are not within State jurisdiction, but Victoria is vitally concerned with twO' which come within the scheme of this measure and

3438 Essential. Services [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

the powers of the Government and Parliament of Victoria. I shall take one example. The State Electricity Commission of Victoria is virtually the sole supplier of electrical power in this State-every industry and every housholder depends upon that supply. For any group of workers to deprive the people of Victoria of the right to power is a most serious step, and indeed it is difficult to envisage the circumstances in which such action could be justified, particularly in Australia, where there is such an elaborate provision for the settlement of industrial disputes. However, in the last month, a union has deprived the people of Victoria of most of its electrical energy for two periods of 24 hours.

This union has, of its own volition, sought the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission as the forum in which to obtain its awards but, because it is not satisfied with the awards that have been made., has turned to direct action.

Mr. HOLDING.-Which union are you talking about?

Mr. G. O. REID.-I am talking of the Municipal Officers' Association. It is relevant to quote what was said on this matter last week when Commissioner Neil addressed the parties. The Commissioner said-

The response of the Municipal Officers' Association to the proposals of this Commission for settlement of this dispute with the State Electricity Commission of Victoria makes it clear that in this dispute the Association has set its face against arbitration.

It is determined to pursue a course of direct action, and officers and members of the Association must accept the inevitable consequences. It has been the result of deliberate policy to flout the conciliation and arbitration system. As I have said, it is not for this Parliament to interfere in the settlement of such disputes, but it is necessary for it to see that the right of every worker to carry on his lawful avocation is not interfered with by arbitrary, irresponsible and hasty action by any group, whether it be of employers or employees ..

The action proposed by the Government in this Bill is taken in the interests of the whole community and with particular reference to the fact that recently great numbers of workers of this State have been thrown out of employment by the acts of minority irresponsible groups.

Mr. WILKEs.-The honorable member for Glenhuntly refers to them as " a scrubby little bunch".

Mr. G. O. REID.-It is of interest that this problem is not confined to Victoria. It is interesting to note the remarks of Ray Gunter, the Minister of Labour in the Wilson Administration, reported in the Times of last Friday, 1st ~arch-

"The Government should consider measures to be taken to protect the national interest in times of strikes, particularly unofficial," said Ray Gunter, Minister of Labour.

Mr. Gunter also said, "The evolution of industrial power requires the law shall be such it shall safeguard the interest of the nation as ,a whole. Much can be said about strikes, official and unofficial, and I would defend the right of the man to withdraw his labour, but in a modern society we have to come to an understanding that if procedures are defined clearly and fairly it is reasonable to expect men to become obedient to that procedure arising from agreements they have signed."

Mr. FENNEssY.-There is no agreement here.

Mr. HOLDING.-Men can go on strike in England.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The interjections betray members of the Opposition's ignorance of industrial law. In England, industrial awards are based on collective agreements. In Victoria, they are based on awards. Some of the interjections indicate that the socalled representatives of the workers are a good deal out of touch with industrial practice.

The result of the current revolt against the established system of arbitration that most concerns my Government and, I believe, the ordinary citizens of this State is the effect of this lawlessness on the worker who is stood down through nQ fault of his own, whose ability to provide

Essential Services [6 MARCH, 1968.] . (Amendment) Bill. 3439

for his family, whose ability to meet his fixed commitments for rent and capital expenditure is so suddenly curtailed. This is in our view the height of irresponsibility and thoughtlessness. We, in our Australian thinking, to use an Australian vernacular expression, do not think the bulk of the people, including the workers of this State, are getting a fair go from the unions.

This Bill has three main objectives. First, by clause 3 it is proposed to insert a new section 3A in the Essential Services Act 1958. By this section, provision is made for a type of proclamation to be made by the Governor in Council. This is a different type of proclamation from that provided for under the existing legislation. It is not proposed torepeal the existing provision insofar as it provides for the proclamation in a state of emergency.

Clause 3 of the Bill provides, inter alia-

At the end of section 3 of the principal Act there shall be inserted the following section :-

"3A. (1) Where at any time it appears to the Governor in Council that any action has been taken or is likely to be taken by any person or body of persons which is prejudicing or threatening or is likely to prejudice or threaten-

(a) the opportunity of employees (other than those by whom the action has been taken or is likely to be taken) to be gainfully employed in their usual occupations; or

(b) the health or safety of the public or any section of the public; or

(c) the maintenance of peace and good order in Victoria-

the Governor in Council may by a proclamation to that effect (in this section called a "proclamation as to the security or welfare of the State") published in the Government Gazette declare that such action is prejudicing or threatening or is likely to prejudice or threaten the security or welfare of the people of the State of Victoria.

I do not propose to read the further provisions' contained in the clause, but they provide powers as to the limitation of the place or circumstances of the proclamation and also that a proclamation may

from time to time be revoked by a resolution of this Parliament. An offence is created by a person who defies the terms of the proclamation or who during the currency of the proclamation does certain acts. Subsection (6) of proposed new section 3A provides-

Any person who while a proclamation as to the security or welfare of the State under this section is in force takes part in or continues or incites urges aides or encourages the taking part in or continuance of a lock-out or strike in or in relation to the action or actions referred to in such a proclamation or who does any act that he is forbidden to do or omits to do any act that he is required to do in or in relation to his employment in any essential service or any public service provided by the State shall be guilty of an offence and liable to be imprisoned for a term of not more than one year or to a penalty of not more than $1,000 or to both such imprisonment and penalty.

I wish to make it clear that this proclamation is in addition to the form of proclamation which may be used under the existing Act, but of course it is not envisaged that two proclamations will be issued at the same time. The whole emphasis in this proclamation is on the fact that action is to be taken to preserve the security and safety of the people.

The second main change proposed by the Bill is to modify some of the existing provisions relating to secret ballots. Under the existing Essential Services Act it is an offence to strike in an essential service without the strike having been approved by a majority of those entitled to vote. The new provision will not make it an offence to strike without a secret ballot being held, but it does authorize the Government to order a secret ballot to be held. The offence of striking without the holding of a secret ballot is now covered by the provisions of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Act and the machinery current under that Act. I point out that when the essential services legislation was passed in 1948, the procedure of the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission relating to secret ballots had not been

3440 Essential Services [ASSEMBL Y.] (Amendment) Bill.

developed to its present stage. The machinery for the taking of secret ballots was considerably developed in the Commonwealth sphere when the composite Liberal and Country Party Government was formed in 1949, and when the Government of Victoria passed its Act of 1948, that machinery was not so advanced.

By the modifications proposed to this section, it is not intended that the State Act shall impinge upon whatever penal action it may be intended to take in the Commonwealth jurisdiction. The principle of taking secret ballots is preserved because from time to time it may be necessary to test the feeling of a union or of an industrial association to find out whether or not members really want to strike, or whether the strike is, as in most cases, fomented by a small executive body not representative of its members.

Mr. HOLDING.-Do you say that that is true in the case of the Municipal Officers' Association?

Mr. G. O. REID.-I think that will be found to be so. It is proposed to preserve the secret ballot provisions to enable the Government, from time to time, to discover the true feelings of the strikers. This procedure will be taken in order that the Government may be informed of what other action it might take under the Act.

The amendments in the third group are of a procedural and technical nature. Embracing definitions of employee, employer, officer of a trade union, strike, taking part in a strike, and trade union are provided.

By clause 6, provision is made to facilitate the taking of legal proceedings by the 'use of certificates and averments, but it should be noted that notice must be given to any defendant before any averment can be relied on. Jurisdiction for offenders under the Act is restricted to Courts of Petty Sessions constituted by stipendiary magistrates sitting alone.

I have given a broad outline of the provisions of the Bill, and I now

return to what I said at the outsetthat its purpose is to ensure that public safety in this State is safeguarded, that the vocations of people in the community are not interrupted by the actions of irresponsible groups, and that the health of the community is preserved. I remind members of the Opposition that the Government and the Parliament have a duty to protect public safety and security. That is one of the powers which remain with us under the Constitution. Whereas the making of industrial awards and the settlement of disputes may reside with tribunals, the Government has the duty of ensuring that the public is protected from the consequences of irresponsible acts of people who attempt to defy the rules.

In bringing forward this Bill, the Government is not in any sense competing with or acting against the Commonwealth industrial systemor, indeed, any other industrial system. The object is to provide legislation which will work in cooperation with it; but beyond it all the Government is mindful of its great duty to protect the interests of the public. This Bill is an endeavour to fulfil that duty, and I commend it to the House.

The sitting was suspended at 12.38 p.m. until 1.50 p.m.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-For Parliament to be asked to consider a Bill as urgent, as is the case here, involves requesting it to adopt an extraordinary procedure. Such a procedure is rarely used and therefore when it is used one is entitled to presume that, apart from the political motivations, with which I shall deal later, the House is dealing with a set of extraordinary facts or situations which compels its use. In explaining the Bill to the House, the Attorney-General made some off-thecuff remarks. The notes of the Minister's second-reading speech consisted of three and a half roneoed pages of .comments on the Bill, and more importantly, about the need for


the legislation. Of those pages, more than one page is taken up with the Minister's descriptive passages concerning the Bill.

In adopting this extraordinary procedure, the Attorney-General has presented to the House proposed legislation which will have far-reaching impact on every citizen in the State. It is without parallel in any other Australian State and presumably up-dates an industrial enactment which every industrial text-book in Australia describes as being the most far-reaching legislation of its kind. The Act which the Bill amends is an industrial anachronism because such legislation has never been used by any Government in any industrial stoppage in Victoria.

The Minister's explanatory remarks in introducing a measure to up-date this acrimonious Act run to barely two pages of foolscap. If one· examines those remarks in the light of the facts, history and circumstances upon which the measure is predicated, one finds within the framework of the Minister's speech, a glib, inaccurate and completely distorted account of the industrial situation operating within the State Electricity Commission at the present time. Parliamentary usage prevents me from using the word " dishonest ", so I shall not do SQ. It is true that no other Government in the history of Australia has, in peace time, sought to receive from a Parliament such wide-ranging powers as are encompassed in this Bill. There can be no doubt that the proposed powers strike not only at every unionist but also at every citizen in the State.

I invite the House to examine the basic contentions of the Bill, which are very simple. It is proposed to give power to Cabinet to proclaim and make proclamations with respect to threats to the security and welfare of the people of Victoria. Mr. Speaker, have you ever seen such a wide descriptive phrase as that used to describe the sort of threat with which the measure is concerned? No objective test or standard is provided by which any member of Parliament

or of the community can say that the Government had evidence before it and that, acting upon that evidence, the Government properly decided that there was a threat in some way to the security of the State. There is no way by which any citizen can check a decision of Cabinet as to whether there is a threat to the maintenance of peace and good order in Victoria, to the health or safety of the public or any section of the public, or to the opportunity of employees to be gainfully employed in their usual occupations.

Cabinet is saying to the House, "Give us power to make proclamations in respect of this matter." If Cabinet is given this power, any citizen-not merely any unionistwho, while there is a proclamation in existence, takes part in or continues or incites or urges or aids or encourages the taking part in or continuance of a lock-out or strike is liable to be charged and brought before a magistrate, and imprisoned for twelve months or fined $1,000. It is not difficult to imagine the situation in which a journalist examining the facts of a given industrial situation could find himself. I suggest that if anyone examines the facts of the industrial situation in this case, he will reach the conclusion that the industrial problems that exist in the State Electricity Commission at present are not the results of attitudes and actions by the men; they are the result of ineptitude and failings of the Government. However, if the legislation is enacted and there is a proclamation, a journalist who makes an objective appraisal and states that perhaps the men are right in considering a 24-hour stoppage could be brought into court and charged, fined and gaoled.

I challenge any member of the Government to give this Parliament an example of any Government in the Western democratic world, seeking, in peace time, to invoke legislation of this kind which can strike in such a fundamental way at the rights of every citizen in the State.

3442 Essential Services [ASSEMBLY.] {Amendment) Bill.

Mr. DIVERS.-Hitler did it . in Germany years ago.

Mr. HOLDING.-And he did it without eight faceless men! For the reasons I have stated and for others which I shall enunciate, the Opposition is opposed to this Bill. Opposition members assert that no evidence has been produced to this House or to the people of Victoria to justify any Government seeking the passage of legislation that will have such a far-reaching impact and effect upon the average citizen of the State. The only arguments advanced by the Attorney-General were that strikes were threatened and that stoppages had occurred in the State Electricity Commission.

Because it is a problem that bedevils Western democratic society, the first action of the Government and this Parliament should be to determine its position on th~ right to strike. This is simply the right of a workman, in a given situation, to withhold his services for the purposes of advancing his own industrial and economic conditions. Fundamentally, it is a basic right of any employee in a free and democratic society, and is the one thing which distinguishes the free man from the slave in their respective work situations. In most democratic sOcieties, this right is not only recognized, but is in fact written into the industrial system. 'fihe Opposition believes that every workman has the right to strike, and I make no apology for that statement.

In his second-reading explanatory speech, the Attorney-General took out of context a statement made recently by a prominent Minister in the British Labor Government. Presumably, the honorable gentleman was so lacking in argument about the local situation in Victoria, and was so reluctant to bring any evidence before this House as to the industrial situation in the Latrobe Valley-I hope the honorable member for Morwell and the Minister for Fuel and Power will inform the House of the views of their constituents on this matter-that half of his speech dealt with the comments made by the British Minister.

Mr. SUGGETT.-Do you agree with the comments?

Mr. HOLDING.~1f the honorable member for Bentleigh examined the industrial situation in England, he would find that no English Government, Tory or Labor, has ever contemplated introducing legislation of this kind. The honorable member should examine the statute-books and the records of Tory Governments. He is so conservative and so reactionary that he makes the Tory blue-bloods in England look like young radicals.

In the United States of America, the home of free enterprise, the law imposes a duty to bargain collectively, at least in those industries where interstate commerce is affected. It is interesting to note that the Federal law of that country guarantees the right of employees to engage in concerted activity, which is the right to strike, to advance their industrial situation. The same law declares void any State legislation which endeavours to deprive employees of that right.

In Sweden, collective bargaining and strike action are regarded as perfectly proper when industrial agreements are being fixed. However, once the agreements are fixed and signed-and the same position applies in many sections of the United States of America-civil proceedings can be instituted against any employee organization which, having Signed the contract, endeavours to evade its responsibilities under it. In the course of negotiating the contract, the right to strike is accepted.

Mr. WILCOX.-Is there a system of industrial arbitration in Sweden?

Mr. HOLDING.-I shall deal with that interjection later. There is nothing new, nor is there anything novel, about Western democratic communities and well-developed societies having to Bve with the problems of strikes and the results which flow from a breakdown in arbitral machinery. J think it would be a truism


that all strikes involve some inconvenience to somebody at some time, and not the least affected are the employees themselves.

The problem with Government members is that they think a dedsion to strike, or a decision to terminate one's working service to an employer -which, in the case of the State Electricity Commission, has been the employer for most of these men's effective working lives-is one that is easily reached. I assure honorable members that those decisions are reached only after a great deal of heart-searching and industrial frustration.

In Sykes's St·rike Law In Australia, the author quotes from Labor Relations and the Law. I concede that this is the high-water mark, but it is the attitude which runs through the whole concept of industrial relations. He quotes-

The strike is itself a part of the bargaining process. It tests the economic bargaining power of each side and forces each to face squarely the need it has for the other's contribution. As the strike progresses, the worker's savings disappear, the union treasury dwindles, and management faces mounting losses. Demands are tempered, offers are extended, and compromises previously unthinkable become acceptable. The very economic pressure of the strike is the catalyst which makes agreement possible. Even when no strike occurs, it plays its part in the bargaining process, for the very prospect of the hardship which the strike will bring provides a prod to compromise. Collective bargaining is a process of reaching agreement, and strikes are an integral and frequently necessary part of that process. That is the view of one eminent legal authority which I feel ought to be quoted to the House, because the Government has got itself into the situation of elevating almost every industrial stoppage into a mortal sin.

In Australia, elaborate pro-visions exist for conciliation and arbitration, and at the Federal level penal provisions have been invoked against strike action. That fact has not resulted overnight in the trade union movement saying that it will not go on strike. In the course of his second-reading speech the Attorney-General did not refer to

the statement of the Conciliation Commissioner. There has been no suggestion by the Industrial Court that the provisions that exist in the Commonwealth statutes are inadequate to protect the people of Victoria. The history of penal and regressive legislation of this type is simply that it adds nothing to the resolution of industrial problems.

Our Tory friends opposite would have us believe that the people of Victoria should put their faith in this regressive legislation in order to solve industrial unrest, but do they seriously believe that it can be done by faith and hope in penal and regressive legislation of this type? The answer is to look at what occurred under the parent Act.

For more than twenty years the principal Act has never been used, but there have been many strikes in Victoria during that period and there have been many hardships. There is nothing to suggest that any of those hardships have not been greater than some of the inconveniences borne by the people in the recent 24-hour stoppages in connexion with the State Electricity Commission of Victoria.

One of the questions which this Parliament must, in all conscience, be prepared to answer is: What are the causes of the industrial stoppages that have taken place? It is not sufficient to say, "This legislation will be put on the statute-book. Although it has not solved any problems in the past-it has created some-we think it rnay solve a few in the future". It will be agreed by both sides that at present there is grave industrial tension within the State Electricity Conlmission of Victoria. What are the causes of this tension? Is it, as has been suggested by the AttorneyGeneral, that an irresponsible band of leaders is leading a skilled and dedicated work force by the nose? Nobody believes this. I am certain that the Attorney-General does not, and I shall be delighted to hear whether the honorable member for Morwell and the: Minister for Fuel and Power do so.


At the best of times it is always difficult to establish the causes of industrial tension. This aspect was analyzed by a learned academic writer in the Journal of Industrial Relations, vol. 9, No.1, of March, 1967. The Premier should subscribe to this journal. Anyone familiar with the industrial field would agree with the comments made in the journal. In an article headed, "Issues in Industrial Conflict: Australian experience, 1913-1963 ", Mr. Desmond W. Oxnam, of the University of Western Australia said-

Now industrial conflict is a complex phenomenon which is not the product of any single cause. A distinction must be made between the incidents which precipitate a crisis and the underlying complex of factors which render the parties vulnerable to conflict over such incidents.

He then quoted another learned industrial writer, and he further said-

As Hare has aptly remarked: "It would be no exaggeration to say that in the problem of industrial unrest are focused nearly all the major problems of social organisation." The distinction between immediate and underlying causes of conflict becomes particularly important in an industry with a tradition of consistently bad relations, for in these circumstances strikes not infrequently occur over intrinsically insignificant incidents which may be only obliquely concerned with the work situation. He was saying that, where there is traditionally a bad employer-employee relationship, the industry concerned becomes more strike prone because small incidents become magnified into great incidents, and there is a series of strikes. I put it to the Premier and to the Parliament: Could this description be applied to the State Electricity Commission of Victoria and the power industry in Victoria?

Could it be said that the history of this industry is one of bad employeremployee relationships? Nobody believes that to be so. As I have pointed out in this House on other occasions, the State Electricity Commission of Victoria is an instrumentality of which all Victorians can be proud. Over the years it has provided an economic foundation from which

Mr. Holding.

much of the progress of this State has been built. That did not happen by accident or because there were bad employer-employee relationships; it was the result of the skill and dedication of the work force that made up the State Electricity Commission of Victoria and the broad guidelines which were laid down in that Commission by some first-rate public servants.

Honorable members should look at the history of this industry and of the Municipal Officers' Association, which was so sneeringly referred to by the secretary of the Cabinet. Is the Minister for Fuel and Power prepared to say that he believes this union has a bad industrial record?

Mr. FENNESSy.-Or is communist led?

Mr. HOLDING.-That is so.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-What did Mr. Jordan say?

Mr. HOLDING.-He told the Premier not to be such a fool, to use a little common sense, and to use the basic principles of industrial conciliation, instead of using the cudgel which, of course, is the Premier's favourite weapon. What are the facts? Let us look at the history of this business. The Municipal Officers' Association, which was so sneeringly referred to by the secretary of the Cabinet, on the vote of its members some years ago provided from its provident fund the sum of $4,000,000 for the development of State Electricity Commission of of Victoria capital works programme. Is that the attitude of a union which is out to destroy the State Electricity Commission?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-That money was not lent free of interest.

Mr. HOLDING.-I agree. The members of this organization do not drift in and out of the industry. The honorable member for Morwell can confirm that fact because most of them live in his electorate. They are men with a high degree of skill and

Essential Ser-vices [6 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3445

competence who have spent a lifetime in the service of the Commission.

Until a few years ago every industrial award was a consent award. This applied also to the last work value decision. However, since then industrial relations have deteriorated; this organization is now involved in an industrial stoppage and a bans clause has been inserted in the award. Why is it that all of a sudden this organization seems to have broken the pattern of an industrial lifetime? Why have men who have spent a Hfetime in a service decided that they will go on strike? This decision has been made because of the frustration and the anguish that is felt at every level of the work force in the State Electricity Commission of Victoria and this is a direct result of the policies of this Government.

Mr. DIXON.-Why have they not gone to arbitration?

Mr. HOLDING.-I shall come to that. I want an answer to that statement from a member of the Government. However, in the meantime I shall submit evidence to the House to support my contention. The approach adopted by the State Electricity Commission and the employees to their wage fixation problems-this is set out in the transcript of proceedings of the case involving the blue collar workers in 1961-was that there were two essential propositions and agreement was reached on both of them. There was agreement between the work force and the State Electricity Commission that the Commission was a special industry. Because it was centrally located so far as the production of power was concerned, and many other industries depended upon it, it therefore occupied a special position in industry. As a result, the men who worked in the industry believed that additional responsibilities and duties were cast upon them and that this should be

taken into account in determining their wages and working conditions.

I should like the Minister for Fuel and Power tu indicate during the debate whether the State Electricity Commission still holds that view. Does it still regard itself as being a special industry? One of the reasons for the conflict now existing in the State Electricity Commission was a decision by the Government that the Cornmission should try to move away from that concept. It is interesting to note that as the Commission is endeavouring to move away from this concept of its being a special industry for the purposes of industrial conciliation, the Government, in order to threaten the officers and men who work in that industry, is most anxious to have penallegislation enacted by Parliament. Apparently this is a special industry for the purpose of fining and gaoling but not for the purpose of industrial conciliation.

There was a second factor which considerably eased the burden of any counse 1 prepared to argue the case for the State Electricity CommISSIon, the Municipal Officers' Association or the blue collar unions. That was the capacity of the State Electricity Commission to pay. In 1961, after the preliminary arguments which properly go on between parties to industrial negotiations, in the case involving blue collar workers, the State Electricity Commission did not at any point of time seriously contest its capacity to pay increased wages. It was also in 1961 that Mr. Commissioner Winter decided that the State Electricity Commission was a special industry.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-For the blue collar workers.

Mr. HOLDING.-In 1965, in a consent award between the State Electricity Commission and the Municipal Officers' Association, the special nature of the industry was not even in issue between the parties. At the lpresent time one of the reasons for the dissension is the refusal of the Government to

3446 Bssential Services [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

allow not only the State Electricity Commission but also all of its other instrumentalities to meet the work force over the table and discuss conditions of employment. If I am wrong in that contention, I invite the Minister for Fuel and Power to correct me. The Government has taken away from State instrumentalities the basic right which every other employer in this State exercises. There are employers on the Government side of the House, some of whom are eminently successful, who would not want to be in an industrial situation in which they were deprived of the right of talking to their employees about the wages and conditions that should apply in their factories.

One reason why the Government is no longer prepared to concede the capacity of the State Electricity Commision to pay, and why Mr. Connolly is embarrassed in a way in which he was not embarrassed in 1961, is the fiscal policy of the Government in respect to the Commission. The Government decided to impose a tax on the State Electricity Commission and the Gas and Fuel Corporation, and the balance-sheets of the Commission show the difference which that tax has made. For the year ended 30th June, 1966, the excess of the Commission's income over its expenditure was $3,600,000. A sum of $500,000 was paid to Consolidated Revenue; $2,000,000 was appropriated to' contingency and general reserves ; and the balance of $1,100,000 was available for capital works. The effect of the tax initiated by the Premier was felt in 1967. The excess of income over expenditure was $5,800,000, $5,500,000 was transferred to Consolidated Revenue and only $261,000 was retained for capital works.

Having used the State Electricity Commission as a milking cow, the Government now tells its work force that it cannot admit capacity to pay. The burdens of the expansion of State ElectriCity Commission activities are no longer to be borne by all sections

Mr. Holding.

of the community; they are to be borne by the State Electricity Commission workers-whether they are blue collar or white collar. That is directly attributable to the fiscal policy of the Government and particularly to the tax imposed on the Commission. A major instrumentality, which could once plan for its future development and, in connexion with its two most recent awards, could admit a capacity to pay, is no longer in that position because of the Government's fiscal policy.

The Attorney-General spoke of conciliation and arbitration, and the Government talks about men taking their disputes to arbitration. There are two industrial processes in this country; there is not only arbitration. The first concept, and one which is endemic to the whole structure is that of conciliation. This is the concept of both parties to sit around a conference table to see what measure of agreement can be reached for the settlement of a dispute.

Mr. DIXoN.-Conciliation involves a third party.

Mr. HOLDING.-My dear friend, all I can say to you is that when you put up your hand, as you did earlier to-day, to help to introduce the Bill now before this House, you indicated that you neither cared nO'r were concerned with the processes of either arbitration or conciliation. You are concerned with the bludgeon and the jackboot only.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! The Leader of the Opposition should address the Chair.

Mr. HOLDING.-I charge this Government with being opposed to any concept of conciliation, and I will prove it. The Government is concerned to prevent any discussion between any of its instrumentalities and their work forces to fix conditions of work and rates of pay. No Minister will deny that. The situation is incredible. If the Premier wants to deny


my allegation, I shall be delighted to hear him do so. No members of the Government will deny it, because they all know it is true. The Government knows that Mr. Connolly and the industrial officers of the State Electricity Commission cannot conciliate in a reasonable way.

Mr. BALFOUR.-They can. Mr. HOLDING.-We shall hear

from the Minister for Fuel and Power. The concept of conciliation involves give and take and hard bargaining. Any time that Mr. Connolly or the industrial officers of the Commission enter into negotiations, they do so with their hands tied behind their backs because the Government has told them they are not permitted to reach agreements. The Minister for Fuel and Power interjects that that is not true. I throw that back in his face and say that the Government will prevent any of its senior officers or public servants from fixing wages and conditions for the instrumentalities which they serve. I will prove that statement.

I invite the attention of the House to the minutes of a meeting of the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board, which is a small instrumentality. The members of the Board are charged by the Government and Parliament to operate effectively and well, and one would expect them to be given the responsibility of saying what the wages and conditions of employment of their work force should be. If no reasonable agreement with the employees can be reached, it then becomes a matter for an industrial tribunal. I have the minutes of a meeting of the Board at 4.30 p.m. on the 8th February, 1968. I shall omit the formal parts of the minutes, but I shall lay the document on the table so that back-bench supporters of the Government can find out what their Ministers are up to. Under the heading of "General Business" there is an item: "Work force request for over-award payment". The Board received a deputation from members of the union representing employees of the Board. The purpose of the

deputation was to make an application for increases following a decision of the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission. The president thanked the deputation and announced that the Board would immediately consider their representations and that a decision would be conveyed to them as soon as practicable. The deputation then retired. The Board's industrial officer, who is a full-time employee with a responsibility to know what is happening in industry, advised the Board that the decision of the Full Bench of the Arbitration Court handed down on Wednesday, 21st February, required that 70 per cent. of the increased margins recently awarded should be paid without absorption, and that the remaining 30 per cent. would be considered with other matters in August next. The minutes state-

In the light of this information and the submissions of the representations of the metal trades employees, it was resolved that notwithstanding the Board's decision of 8th Februa.ry the full increases awarded by the Commission on the 11 th December, 1967, be paid to all metal trades employees of the Board as from the 26th January.

This is a Government board acting responsibly. Having heard a deputation on wages, salaries and conditions, having the advice of its own expert officer, it reached a decision to pay certain increases.

I now turn to item No. 44, omitting the formal parts-

Messrs. Moffatt and Jane-l understand that they are two members of the Board-reported that in the absence of the president and in company with the secretary they had been summoned on the 28th instant to attend upon the Chief Secretary. Consequent upon the Board's decision of 22nd February, 1968, to pay metal trades employees the full increases awarded by the Arbitration Commission on the 11 th December, 1967, the Minister had definitely advised that it is Government policy for its instrumentalities to follow the Commission's decision of the 21st February, 1968, to pay 70 per cent. of its former decision without absorption and this the Board should confonn to. ruhe Chief Secretary summoned the members of this Board and said to them, ".I am not interested in your


industrial advice or in what your experts say you should do in order to preserve proper industrial relations. I am telling you that it is the policy of this Government that you will not pay those increases, so you had better go back and change your decision ". They did go back and did ohange their decision.

On 27th February last, the honorable member for Moonee Ponds asked the Premier what are the functions of the State's industrial co-ordination scheme. The honorable member received a long answer setting out all the bodies, including the State Electricity Commission and the Gas and Fuel Corporation, the Country Roads Board and a host of others, which are members of the industrial coordination scheme. In reality, this is a body which has to carry out the direction of the Premier and to inform instrumentalities that under no circumstances are they to grant any increases unless the Premier says to do so. The minute that I have read to this House proves conclusively that this Government, as a result of the policy of the Premier, has deliberately and with premeditation said to these statutory authorities and instrumentalities, "You will not deal face to face with your work force; you will not negotiate face to face, or conciliate; you will give them only what the Premier says they ought to be given. "

Mr. BIRRELL.-What the court says. Mr. HOLDING.-Let me examine

that assertion. The trouble is that the honorable member for Geelong knows nothing about the court or proceedings. When the Premier talks to the motley collection of Liberal backbenchers in the party room, the honorable gentleman may say, "We say to them 'Go to the court' ", and for someone as simple as the honorable member that -might sound like a reasonable sort of suggestion.

Mr. DIXON.-The Premier would at least say, "Go to the Commission. "

Mr. HOLDING.-It would not matter what the honorable gentle-man said because the honorable member is fairly simple and that would sound like a reasonable suggestion. But what does it mean? As a result of some of the variations gran ted by the commission, skilled foremen in the State Electricity Commission find that they are in fact receiving less than a leading hand working under them. Even the honorable member for St. Kilda might be provoked to agree that that is a situation of evident injustice and one which would promote industrial unrest. What does it mean when a body such as this is told to go to the court? I shall inform honorable members what it means. The last work value case which this organization conducted before the Conciliation and Arbitration Com'mission, from the time when the documents were lodged until the final consent award was given, took five years. Even Liberal Ministers of the Commonwealth Parliament are complaining about the delays and· problems which beset the industrial commission.

In 1963, by consent, the State Electricity Commission and the Municipal Officers' Association agreed upon work value determinations and classifications. When the Government says, "Go back and take another work value case involving the full range of classification", it is saying, " Put off any claim you have for immediate economic justice; cancel any claim you have for a period of between two and five years". What do the men do in that situation? What would the honorable member for St. Kilda do in those circumstances. I remind honorable members that the majority of the men affected have families-I invite the honorable member for Morwell to inform the House on this point-and all of them are receiving less than any honorable member of this House. So, when the Premier goes to the party room and says, " We are telling them


to go to arbitration ", he might as well say, "We are telling them to go and live in never-neverland" because in terms of money in the pay packet that is what it means.

Wha t is the basis of the grievance of the men of the Municipal Officers' Association and of the blue collar workers? They say, "We work in this instrumentality; we have served it faithfully and well. We want to deal face to face with the men who are responsible for running it, and we want them to say' Yea' or 'Nay' to our industrial demands". What is wrong with that? What is wrong with it is the Premier of Victoria.

Mr. JONA.-Are you supporting the Municipal Officers' Association and its methods?

Mr. HOLDING.-I make no apology for my view that many of the claims of the Municipal Officers' Association are just and proper. I charge this Government with culpable disregard of just claims by employees of the State Electricity Commission, and I charge the honorable member for Hawthorn with political dishonesty in supporting legislation of this type.

I now wish to examine this great crisis with which Victoria is now threa tened.

Mr. WILTON.-Which one? Mr. HOLDING.-I stand corrected.

Let us examine what occurred in the two industrial stoppages that took place in the State Electricity Comm-ission. It is perfectly true, as I have conceded to this House, that when an industrial stoppage occurs inconvenience will be caused. Let us look at what was done by these "reckless men" of the MuncipalOfficers' Association-these "industrial brigands", to use the term of the Premier; and if anybody knows the art of brigandage, the Premier does.

Let us now examine not the pious nonsense spoken by the Minister in his second-reading speech but what in fact took place in the Latt~obe Valley when there were two -industrial stoppages. I should point out

that these stoppages occurred after a considerable period when it was clear to the men that no matter how long or how hard they talked the Government was not prepared to consider any aspect of the concept of conciliation.

When the first 24-hour stoppage took place on 15th February, these men, whom the Premier has described as brigands, were so careless and neglectful of the problems of the people of Victoria that they made certain before they stopped work that more than 900 megawatts of electricity was available for generation within the system.

The men also organized the following aspects of their strike:They provided all the staff necessary to ensure that the communications system was operating effectively and well; all the staff in any way associated with the maintenance of the fire-fighting system; all the staff associated with the provision of first aid; all the staff -involved in the continuation of the agreed generating distribution capacity; and all the staff necessary to organize the wages of personnel. That meant that of a membership of approximately 7,000, more than 3,500 men had to stay within the framework of this electricity complex to ensure that at least 900 meg.awatts would be available. I understand that that quantity represents about half of the power consumed in Melbourne in anyone day. Do these look like the actions of industrial brigands?

Mr. WILKEs.-Or a " scrubby little bunch "?

Mr. HOLDING.-That was the contemptible term used by the contemptible secretary of the Cabinet-

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! The honorable member may not use that term.

Mr. HOLDING.-I withdraw the remark. On 24th February this organization again decided on a 24-hour stoppage. Again I concede inconvenience; but the Government is talking about the maintenance of essential services, and that is what


the Bill before the House is about. Every time that this organization has moved-and this is not surprising, when one looks at the history of the organization-it has made certain that essential services would operate.

On 29th February it made certain that 900 megawatts of power was available, ·and the same conditions applied as in the earlier stoppage. However, at that stage problems were encountered; I believe it was a very hot day and that the fire danger in the Latrobe Valley was rather acute. In those circumstances, a senior officer of the Municipal Officers' Association was stationed in the Latrobe Valley all night in order to circumvent the possibility of men being needed for the job in an emergency but not reporting for duty because they thought they might be infringing ·a rule of the union. He was there for the purpose of ensuring that no damage would be caused to the system. Does this look like the pattern of men who are out to destroy an essential service, or is it rather the pattern of men brought to the point of industrial frustration and anguish by the policies of this Government?

If this is the history of this dispute, several courses were open to the Government. The first and obvious course was that the Government ought to conciliate and thus restore to employees of the State Electricity Commission and other instrumentalities, of which all Victorians can be proud, that measure of confidence which has inspired the work force for so many years.

Mr. DIxoN.-That is precisely what the Government hopes will happen.

Mr. HOLDING.-The honorable member for St. Kilda is so innocent! What does the Premier do, beset as he is with so many problems? The honorable gentleman has been disowned by the Liberal Prime Minister in respect of his stamp tax; he has on his hands the drought situation, with a Minister for drought relief wandering around trying to find out

where it is and unable to tell the House the number of people unemployed as a result of it; and he is beset also with the problem of Melbourne's failing water suppliesat least he has had the decency to give the eight faceless men some face! With the approaching byelection for the Western Province of the Legislative Council, the Premier considered that this was too good an opportunity to miss. Consequently, he has been instrumental in the introduction of a Bill which characterizes all industrial problems as either black or white, and the Premier allies himself on the side of goodness and purity in the hope that he will create sufficient industrial chaos in the State to obtain an electoral and political advantage.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-You admit that the public is fed up with it.

Mr. HOLDING.-The people are fed up with the Premier. The Bill now before the House is the last desperate card in the pack of this political gambler-and what a card it is! If the Government ever had any reputation in terms of industrial relations, it has forfeited it now, for every member'of the Government knows that legislation such as this does not and will not work. It did not work before. One has only to consider the history of industrial relations in Australia in general and in this State in particular to appreciate that, whatever the problems are, legislation of this nature is no answer.

It is the Opposition's view that this legislation is bad, evil and regressive. It strikes at the heart of some of the fundamental rights of every citizen of the State. The Opposition believes the Bill to be a measure of the Government's failure to provide economic justice for its own employees, and a measure of its disregard of the basic concepts of conciliation. This measure plumbs the depth of political cynicism. The Premier hopes to obtain a political advantage from the industrial bitterness and


unrest which this legislation will create. It is beyond argument that the Bill is an attack upon the fundamental rights and liberties of every Victorian citizen. No peace-time Government has ever sought to exercise such arbitrary penal powers over so many citizens with so little reason. Just as the parent Act contributed nothing to industrial history and the industrial system of this State, so this measure will contribute nothing.

If honorable members examine the Hansard record of the debates of twenty years ago, they will find tha t similar reasons to those now used were trotted out when it was asserted that the Essential Services Act would be the end-all of industrial problems. That Act has never achieved anything. Likewise this Bill will achieve nothing, because in postulating it the Government has not been prepared to examine the history of the trade union movement in this State and in England.

The right to strike is not something tha t was given to trade unionists on a platter. It is something which was hard won both in England and in Australia. This right was won in the face of the combination Acts in England, by means of which unionists were transported to Australia. It was won in the face of penal servitude and loss of life by trade union leaders and in the face of economic and social victimization of members of the trade union movement. This is the legacy and tradition of the right to strike as it exists in this State. This right was gouged out of conservative Governments.

Do the Premier and the Governmen t think the trade union leaders of Victoria to-day are strangers to penal provisions? Does the honorable gentleman think that his 1968 combination Act will victimize and terrorize when the very history of the trade union movement shows that it fought for this right and established it? The history of this sort of legislation and of the legacy

of the trade union movement, not merely of Australia as a whole but of this State in particular, shows that this type of legislation has always failed, and it always will fail.

The Premier is misjudging the men of the Municipal Officers' Association and every trade unionist in this State if he thinks that by enacting this amending legislation those men will yield one inch of what they regard as their legitimate and just demands. The trade union movement will not get on its knees to this Premier or his 36 per cent. -Government. Its members have not lived on their knees in the past and they will not do so now or in the future.

Mr. MOSS (Leader of the Country Party) .-This Bill has been introduced in highly suspicious circumstances, and there is an unsavoury aroma surrounding its introduction. After twelve years of Liberal government, Cabinet has suddenly decided to rush in with legislation to amend the Essential Services Act. In my view, enactment of the proposals contained in the Bill will be a major step towards establishing a police State in Victoria. What are the circumstances of the present situation? The Essential Services Act has been on the statute-book during the n~gime of the Liberal Government, but apparently there was no necessity even to look at the legislation until last Monday. Then suspicious circumstances arose when, following a Cabinet meeting, the Premier informed the press that the Government intended to amend the Essential Services Act.

There has been ample opportunity for the Government, if had it so wished, to make use of this very good Act. If the Essential Services Act were implemented and found wanting, certainly Parliament would give consideration to any proposals for its amendment. As the Act has never been put into operation, how is it possible for the Government or a.nyone else to assert that its provisions are inadequate, that


they will not meet the particular circumstances of the present situation? I remind the Premier and the Government that the principal Act was drawn up by some of the best brains in Victoria at the time. This excellent piece of legislation has not been tried, and consequently no one is in a position to say whether or not it is adequate.

The Country Party opposes the amendment contained in the Bill. Members of our party wholeheartedly and fully support fhe stand we made twenty years ago when the honorable member for Gippsland South, the honorable member for Benambra, and I, representing the Country Party, the Minister of Lands, who had returned to the House after a compulsory retirement of two years, the Premier, and the honorable member for Midlands, also, I think, the Attorney-General were all members of this House. Thus those honorable members and I are in a position to relate the circumstances of that former occasion, whereas other present honorable members were either disinterested or outside the political field at that time.

The situation in this State in 1948 was entirely different from the present state of affairs. There was a tremendous threat to the community by communist-led unions, such as the tramways union, the railways union and the seamen's union. If honorable members examine Hansard, they will find that Sir Wilfred Kent Hughes, who was then a Minister in this Parliament, quoted statements made by several of those union leaders. As a consequence of their efforts, the essential services of the community were in jeopardy. This was an established fact, and it was necessary to take some action to deal with the situation. Of course, the present situation is quite different.

In what was probably the worst second-reading speech I have ever heard the Attorney-General make, the honorable gentleman referred, in reply to an interjection, to the

Mr. Moss.

municipal officers and their involvement in the situation. Would anyone suggest for a moment that those men are communist-led or that they are communists? I do not know how many of them are Liberal supporters, but I daresay there are quite a number. However instead of letting arbitration and the law of the land take care of any offence that may or may not be committed-this would have to be proved-these men are being pushed aside while legislation is rushed into the House to deal with certain circumstances.

Mr. MEAGHER.-They have not taken advantage of arbitration.

Mr. MOSS.-The Minister of Housing is wrong. I suggest that the honorable gentleman should adhere to his zeal for Aboriginal affairs, for which I admire him, rather than enter into something about which he obviously knows very little. The circumstances are totally different.

I strongly object to clause 3 of the Bill. It is proposed that the Government shall be the judge whether there is a threat to the opportunity of employees being gainfully employed in their usual occupation, to the health or safety of the public 'or any section of the public, or to the maintenance of peace and good .order in Victoria. Those tremendously wide terms could mean something or could mean nothing, and the danger is the use of the word " threat".

On the 29th November, 1967, I asked the Chief Secretary a question on a threatened boycott of the Yarra Glen Race Club's cup meeting to be held on the 3rd January, 1968, and what action he proposed to take. In reply, the honorable gentleman said that he regarded it only as a threat, but he was later proved to be wrong. This Government or any future Government also could be wrong in assessing what is a threat to particular community services. Clause 4 will enable the Government to step


in and order a secret ballot at that stage. Under the principal Act, which is a good one, if a state of emergency exists, that can be proclaimed and a secret ballot proceeded with.

Mr. G. O. REID.-That is not so; they are two separate matters.

Mr. MOSS.-To-day the rights of the individual are being whittled away irrespective .of the circumstances, and any repressive legislation which savours of this attitude will be strongly opposed by the Country Party.

The Leader of the Opposition has capably referred to certain aspects of the arbitration system. Let us agree that the arbitration system, as it exists in Australia to-day, leaves a good deal to be desired. Surely, one of the features associated with industrial unrest should be an early examination and overhaul of the system and, wherever possible, it should be streamlined to bring it up to date. The Leader of the Opposition instanced a case which took five years to conclude. I am sure that not even Liberal Party supporters of this Bill will agree that that is fair.

Mr. WILKES.-I think they would. Mr. MOSS.-I am sure that no

Government supporter will agree that that is fair. There are several aspects of the present situation. The arbitration system as a whole should be overhauled in the light of the circumstances operating to-day. The Essential Services Act, which was enacted in 1948, has never been tested; consequently, if the Government is sincere in its efforts to tighten up the legislation, it should at least find out how it will work when it is put into operation, because the principles of the legislation are firmly established. It is unfair to judge the probable effect of any Act on the statute-book without a trial.

It has been said that the mood of the Premier is not very pleasant at the present 'time and that this is having an influence on the Government's legislative programme and its activities. 'f,hese statements are being made freely throughout Victoria and

Session 1968.-129

have appeared in the Melbourne press. It is regrettable that legislation of this nature should be introduced in such circumstances and in the light of facts best known to the Government and not revealed to the House, especially on the eve of a by-election for the Western Province of the Legislative Council. Over the years, a former Prime Minister of Australia, Sir Robert Menzies, was able to drag up communism during every election campaign, and this proved to be effective. The Premier is not a Sir Robert Menzies, and consequently this effort to create an atmosphere which he hopes will be felt in the Western District for the purposes of the by-elect.ion will not get through the dust storm there. It is regrettable that the Bill has been introduced in such circurrlstances.

The honorable gentleman sat in one of the back benches with his face as white as a sheet to listen to this morning's proceedings and was hardly a participant in the programme until after lunch when he gathered up sufficient courage to sit on the front bench; then he disappeared. No doubt, he will return to make a speech. If t.his Bill is important, the Premier should have introduced it and handled it on behalf of the Government. At least, when the Honorable T. T. Hollway was Premier of this State, he took every opportunity of presenting important Government legislation and to pilot it through the House.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The late Mr. Oldham introduced the Essential Services Bill in 1948.

Mr. MOSS.~Mr. Hollway, when Premier of the State, had the courage to handle the situation at the time. It is feeble when a Minister down the line has to declare a Bill an urgent measure, and has to steer it through Parliamen 1. If the Premier is the Leader .of the Government and the first man in Victoria, it is his responsibility to take charge of important Bills introduced into Parliament.

In vie'w of all the circumstances and the arguments advanced, the handling


of this measure appears to be a shabby affair from start to finish. Its only real effect will be to cause antagonism throughout the 'Com,munity rather than establish better conditions for conciliation and assist the pOSition for the Victorian work force. The Bill is a retrograde step, and it will diminish the rights of the individual. For those reasons, the Country Party opposes the measure.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine).I shall not endeavour to do more than write a postscript to the excellent speech made by the Leader of the Opposition. At the outset, I compliment him on the case he has presented on behalf of the Opposition, the Municipal Officers' Association, and, through that association, on behalf of the Australian Council of Salaried and Professional Associations which council supports th~ Municipal Officers' Association, the Australian Council of Trade Unions and the Trades Hall Council. All these bodies favour the repeal of the Essen tial Services Act.

It seems regrettable, when the opportunity came for a Government spokesman to reply to the Leader of the Opposition, that it was not taken by a senior member of the Cabinet preferably the Premier himself. Th~ case of my Leader should have been answered by a Government member who was familiar with the history and the background of this legislation, and who had some qualification in the sphere of industrial legislation and administration and with some capacity for thought on this subject.

The attitude of the Government is cowardly. The Premier has threatened dire things .,in the press over the past few days but has not the courage to reply to the case made against the Attorney-General and to answer the charges of the Leader of the Opposition. The Government knows that this legislation is unnecessary, and that it is only a piece of window dressing for the Western Province byelection. As has been pointed out by other speakers, the Government

already has the powers necessary to do anything it wanted to do under the legislation.

I shall also refer, in the legislative sense, to the historical background of this measure, a matter that was adverted to by the Leader of the Country Party. The then Premier, the Hon. T. T. Hollway prefaced the introduction of the original Bill with a Ministerial statement to the House on the tramways strike.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The introduction was made by the Attorney-General.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I refer the House to page 633 of Hansard of 15th January, 1948, in which Mr. Hollway prefaced his remarks to a message from His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor. This is contrary to the interjection just made by the Attorney-General.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The secondreading speech was made by the Attorney-General.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-The secondreading speech was prefaced by a Ministerial statement by the then Premier, Mr. Hollway, He moved the question of urgency, and then the debate was taken up by the AttorneyGeneral. It is important to realize that, in 1948, the position was entirely dissimilar to the circumstances existing in Victoria to-day, and there was a completely different Government. The statement by Mr. Hollway was brief; the Government proposed to submit certain evidence, which was submitted in due course, and it followed on a strike of tramwaymen, which, from memory, had been going on for six weeks or two months and which in that year had been accompanied by a great deal of industrial unrest, resulting largely from the same kind of frustration that is causing industrial unrest to-day but which, over that period of six weeks or two months, had precipitated tremendous pressures on the Government, which was a coalition Administration of Liberal and Country parties.


Pressures were brought to bear on the Government by such large companies as Myers, Bourke-street, to get the trams running again because they were losing trade. An attempt was made by the then Government to introduce legislation of this type. As has been pointed out, at that time the Government directed the attention of Parliament to the activities of what it described as a number of communist-led unions. Honorable members who wish to read the debates on that Bill will find that there was continual reference to the fact that the unions which were in dispute with the Government were stigmatized as being communist led and communist inspired. The Government produced evidence of this description after the strike had been going on for some six weeks.

Of course, there is no similarity between the situation to-day and that which existed in 1948; but there is the same alarming lack of principle on the part of the Government that characterized some members of the Liberal Party in 1948. After the introduction of the Bill which became the principal Act, a compromise was reached between the official trade union movement in Victoria, the Melbourne Trades Hall Council, and the Government.

Mr. G. O. R'EID.-Were you not then one of the representatives of the Melbourne Trades Hall Council?

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I was a member of the Trades Hall Council, and I know something about the matter, but I did not officially meet the Government; the representatives who did so were Mr. Stout and the Honorable P. J. Clarey, both of whom are now deceased, and Mr. Jordan. As the result of the deliberations between the then Premier, and the representatives of the trade union movement in Victoria, the original Act was altered and two things were done. First, the Government agreed, and the newspapers of the day reported the agreement, to the union leaders' request to

amend the emergency powers Bill so that it would not operate automatically with the Governor's assent, but would be promulgated only by the Governor in Council. Secondly, the then Prernier, Mr. Hollway, gave an undertaking which was published in the newspapers in these terms-

There has been a dispute, but now we hope it is over and that good sense and co-operation will prevail. The Government hopes the Act will never be proclaimed and promises it will not be while industrial peace prevails. It will not be proclaimed without consultation with the Trades Hall Council.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-I would give that assurance.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I direct the attention of the House to the interjection of the Premier, and I shall repeat it. He said that he would also give that assurance. The difference between the attitude of the Government in this dispute and the attitude of the Liberal Premier in 1948 is that on that occasion there was consultation, compromise and agreement, and the Act was never proclaimed.

Mr. G. O. REID.-That takes place only after the legislation is introduced.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-Since the introduction of this Bill was announced through the press and its presentation to Parliament, there has been no attempt by any responsible nlember of the Government to seek a peaceable, reasonable and just settlement in the matter. For this reason, on this occasion, this Government has ignored the official trade union movement. What happened on the last occasion is political history, and the Leader of the Country Party has related some of it. At that time Mr. Hollway, the Leader of the Liberal Party was Premier, and Mr. J. G. B. McDonald (now Sir John) was Leader of the Country Party and Deputy Premier. Newly elected members of the Liberal Party should be made aware of the fact that the Liberal Party, through its Leader, the Premier of the day, reached an agreement with the trade union movement in this matter;


the men went back to work, and all the threats which were magnified by the press in astronomical terms, as they have been to-day, subsided without any of the political activity which has characterized this Government in this dispute. On that occasion the Country Party expressed dissatisfaction with the action taken by the then Premier, and it took certain action itself.

Mr. G. O. REID.-That was a year later.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-The then Premier was abroad, and in his absence there was a dispute, during which the Acting Premier, who was the Leader of the Country Party, decided to proclaim the Essential Services Act. When he did that there was a revulsion of feeling by members of the Liberal Party, which included the present Premier. As a matter of fact, he became Minister of Water Supply out of it.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The present Country Party wants to proclaim the old Act now.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-The result of this action was a split in the Cabinet and Mr. Hollway formed a new Ministry without the Leader of the Country Party and his colleagues. There was a debate on the matter in Parliament, which is reported at pages 3981, 3983 et seq of volume 228 of Hansard. During that debate the private conversations and deliberations of members of the coalition Government were placed before Parliament, and it was revealed that the Liberal Party took strong objection -even under circumstances so dissimilar to the present circumstances -to the proclamation of this most reprehensible and reactionary piece of legislation. So, the coalition with the Country Party was dissolved midst a welter of recrimination and low political abuse in Parliament.

The fruits of this dissolution were that all those members of the Liberal Party then in Parliament took the same view as Mr. Hollway, namely, that the Act should not be proclaimed, despite the fact that it had

been alleged by the Government that half a dozen communist-led unions had threatened the Government. Members of the Country Party were thrown out of the Cabinet, and the present Premier prospered and became Minister of Water Supply overnight. At that time he had no desire to proclaim the Essential Services Act. He may have had a strong desire-this was not confined only to the honorable gentlemanto accelerate his own advancement.

The first thing I desire to point out is the inconsistency between the attitude of the Liberal Party in 1948 and its attitude to-day. The present Attorney-General knows nothing about this; he has merely been used to doing the dirty work of the Premier.

Mr. G. O. REID.-I was a member of the House at that time.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I forgive the Attorney-General for the dreadful speech he made. It was quite obvious that his heart was not in it. As a lawyer he knows that strikes cannot be prevented by penal legislation. The judiciary and the law makers in Canberra also know this. What is implicit in the industrial situation to-day that is equal to the industrial situation in 1948, let alone more dangerous or worse, in any way?

To-day, the situation is that the Municipal Officers' Association, which has no connexion with the Communist Party or with any other party, is involved in a dispute with the State Electricity Commission. The Leader of the Opposition has stated that if one were to search for the political affiliations of the individual members of that organization-I would not suggest that that be done because their political affiliations are their own affairs-there is no doubt that one would find that at least half of them vote for the Liberal Party. They are not associated with the Labor Party or with the trade union movement and they are on strike for two reasons.


The first reason is that the arbitration system in Australia is going downhill rapidly. It no longer has the confidence of the trade union movement. Indeed, it has not the confidence of the judiciary. The arbitration system is so weak, so knockkneed and so cowardly that under repeated attacks by the Commonwealth Minister for Labour and National Service and the obdurations and incitements not only of the late Prime Minister but also of the present Prime Minister, and under the persuasion and erudition of this Government through Mr. Aird, who has never once missed out on appearing in a case before the Arbitration Commission to oppose increases in wages for people who work for this Government, it brought down a decision in December, 1967. Despite all this avalanche of pressure, the Commission did the right thing in the first instance. It made a review of work values, despite the fact that no one had asked for it. However, it did not bring in what the trade union movement had asked for, but only part of it.

As soon as it took this action, it was attacked unrelentingly. The judiciary was threatened by the political colleagues of the Victorian Liberal Party. As a result of the political pressure brought to bear by the Liberal Party, both in Canberra and throughout Australia, the Arbitration Commission weakly turned over in bed and sowed the seeds for this dispute. The Premier and his Government know that the present dispute was not brought about solely by the frustrations suffered by the Municipal Officers' Association and every other industrial organization, as a result of the actions taken by this Government, but also by the incapacities and shortcomings of the Arbitration Commission and the stupid decision to defer 30 per cent. of the increases granted in December until some time later in the year when they will be argued under a fresh avalanche of pressures from the Liberal Party and the new Prime

Minister. At least half of this row was started by the Premier's colleagues in Canberra.

The Attorney-General knows that; he must have personal opinions of the judiciary, although I would not expect him to express them here. One has only to read the apologetic statements made in regard to the last matter to realize that, despite the fact that the Commonwealth has a great say in this argument a.nd in inciting industrial disaffection in Victoria, the Victorian Government will not say one hard word about: the Com'monwealth. It has not criticized Mr. Bury, nor has it said anything about the Arbitration Commission. AU it has done is attack the employees and talk about penalties.

There can be only one explanation of the introduction of this Bill. The Government has acted because of the by-election in the Western Province of the Legislative Council. It wants to satisfy its supporters and those it hopes will vote for its candidate that it will protect their interests, not only in this way but in other ways. The Bill is meaningless because of the wide powers already in the Act. It has been introduced as political window dressing to enable the Government to pose as a strong Administration.

The hard facts have been stated by the Leader of the Opposition. Neither the trade union movement generally, the Municipal Officers' Association, the Australian Council of Salaried and Professional Associations, the teachers union, the airline pilots, nor any other section of freedom-loving Australians will sacrifice the right to withdraw the labour of their menlbers. They will strike; they will break this law and, when they break it, good luck to them. The fate of any Government which introduces or maintains legislation which becomes so nauch in contempt in the community \vill eventually be that which befell the Hollway Government. Although, because of a gerrymandered electorate, the Government

3458 Essential Services (ASSEMBL Y.] (Amendment) Bill.

at present feels indomitable and invincible, the political wheel can turn, and tum quickly.

What else does this legislation do? It glorifies scabs. The anaemic, puerile, lily-livered speech made by the Attorney-General about the alleged advantages of the proposed amendments in no way encompassed the powers already in the Act, because nobody wants to describe them publicly. For instance, it is an offence to annoy a scab or blackleg who is trying to take the job of a man who is on strike.

Mr. G. O. REID.-YOU are speaking of the present Act.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-That is right. Mr. G. O. REID.-That is the one

the Leader of the Country Party wants to retain.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I was not speaking about the present Leader of the Country Party, but about the Leader of the Country Party who was Deputy Premier under Mr. Hollway. The attitude of the Country Party to these measures is quite forthright. It supports the Act, but 'Opposes the Attorney-General's amendment, and will vote against it.

Mr. G. O. REID.-But it is in favour of the Act.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-We of the Labor Party do not agree with that.

Mr. WILKES (to Mr. G. O. Reid).You are not in favour of it yourself ; you do not use it.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-That is correct. Apart from powers of direction in the Act, there are provisions which are an affront to any decent Australian. The legislation has become a vehicle for persuading and, if possible, compeUing men to break their allegiance to their industrial organizations. This is something that members of the Government would never think of doing in their own clubs or in their party, but they are prepared to encourage men to do it in the metal trade unions and in professional organizations. The Govern'ment is prepared to say, through the power of

the law, that if a man annoys scabs or blacklegs-such as those encouraged by the Prime Minister t'O take the jobs of postal workers-he can be put in gaol or fined some fantastic sum of money. The average Australian, despite this Government, has no time for scabs or blacklegs, or Governments which protect them.

Before they grew to their present age, not all, but some honorable members on the Government side of the House must have had parents who experienced the worst hardships of any generation in Australia. They must know what their parents endured to obtain reasonable wages and conditions in this country, against the united opposition of the Liberal Party and its political ancestors back to the turn of the century. The Opposition has no intention whats'Oever of supporting this measure inside or outside Parliament.

As the Leader of the Opposition has said, only recently the Municipal Officers' Association was assured, first, that the idea that the State Electricity Commission was a special employing authority would be perpetuated and, secondly, that the relativities which were in existence until last December-the system of relativities on which all conciliation and arbitration bodies in Australia have worked-would be continued in the State Electricity Commission. After receiving those assurances, the Municipal Officers' Association was told, by means of a document, that it was the policy of the State Electricity Commission that they be withdrawn. In view of these facts, I hope that honorable members who are determined to push this measure through this House to-day will give some thought to its future.

The Premier may believe that the passing of this measure will help him in dealing with other unions. I assure him that it will not, beoause this is not the way to tackle the problem. What does the Victorian Government have at its disposal that the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration


Commission and the Commonwealth Industrial Court do not have? At a time when fines amounting to thousands of dollars ,are being inflicted on dozens of unions, at a time when the Government knows that the Municipal Officers' Association is even now before the court under charges of contempt levelled against it by the ~tate Electricity Commission, at a tIme when men in other unions not at present in dispute with the Go~ernment, are in dispute with sections of private enterprise over the last margins decision of the Arbitration C?mmission, and are being charged wIth contempt before the Commonwealth Industrial Court, the judicial branch of the Australian arbitration system, and are subject to bans clauses, prohibitions on strikes and so on, at a time when, as never before in its history, the Commonwealth Industrial Court is so active Iv penalizing unions in seeking indus!rial peace, as it is put, why is It necessary for the Victorian Government to step into this field? I suggest that the motivation is political. If the Premier did not feel like supporting a proclamation under the Essential Services Act in 1948, when perhaps there were many more and greater provocations than he has been subjected to recently, and if he felt so strongly about the situation that he was prepared to support the dismissal of members of the Country Party from the Cabinet rather than agree to the Act being proclaimed, what has brought about his change of demeanour to-day? What in the present situation has led the Premier to this position?

It can be argued-and has been argued successfully-that in our kind of civilization there must be a balance between the right to govern and the right to strike, the rights of consumers and producers and the rights of those who feel a sense of injustice or grievance. On occasions men have been prepared to resort t~ the last weapon in the armoury of industrial organization. Members of the Opposition would not disagree

with this view. What was said by the Attorney-General in his second-. reading speech may have some application in Great Britain, but I do not believe it has. Certainly, it has no application in Victoria.

This Government may precipitate sufficient industrial unrest to incur a repetition of what happened in Victoria during the depression yearswhen I have no doubt the parents of members on the Government side of the Chamber were beating scabs off with sticks in order to get the money to educate their families.

Mr. WILKES.-You do not mean the honorable member for Moorabbin, of course.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-Why not? Some parents of Government party members must have held Labor Party sympathies; some members on the Government side of the Chamber will admit this, and they realize, because their parents have told them, that all the benefits they enjoy to-day -for example, their salaries as members of this Parliament-are based on the wage granted to the fitter by the Arbitration Commission. The heads of public Departments and instrumentalities are in a similar position. The trade union movement in Australia spends thousands of dollars in putting a wage claim on behalf of the fitter, but when he obtains a small increase of $1 or 50 cents a week, heads of Departments and the whole hierarchy of the wage structure receive increases of $20, $40 or even $500. This fact should not be forgotten.

Many people to-day, including some honorable members on the Government side of the Chamber, think that all the benefits enjoyed by the working class-long service leave, sick leave, holiday pay and fringe benefits-fell down a rainbow. They did not. Before private enterprise enjoyed the affluent society that exists in Australia to-day, each benefit was fought for at a time when there was never less than 10 per


cent., and sometimes as much as up to 20 per cent. of the work force out of employment. Many of the parents of members of the Government party grew up in that kind of society. Some of them would turn in their graves if they could see their children supporting one of the worst pieces of scab legislation ever introduced into any Parliament.

Mr. WHEELER.-Do you want a return to those days?

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-Nobody wishes to return to those days. Private enterprise organizations employ in Australia, and particularly in Victoria, the most skilled personnel consultants, the highest paid industrial experts, in I suppose one of the most skilled branches of the law in Australia, the industrial field, to put their case, and it is remarkable to compare the attitude of those organizations, their techniques, their capacity for agreement and their willingness to conciliate with the attitude of this Government. One representative of private enterprise----the Chamber of Manufactures-recently pointed out, truthfully, that the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission exists to obtain peace in industry-that is the only reason for its existence-and that it has now done something which neither the employees nor the employers asked it to do. Despite the action of the Commission, private enterprise organizations are seeking conciliatory and peaceful solutions. I recommend a study of their industrial techniques, much as I disagree with their philosophy.

I condemn the Government for its cowardliness. Government members should have been on their feet before now attacking the statements of the Leader of the Opposition. All their remarks up to date have been by way of interjection. The leaders of this Government have not much industrial know-how. Some of them are so reactionary and so consumed by an insatiable hatred of industrial organizations that the matter has become

pathological with them; others are so terrified of losing their majority in the Upper House that they will resort to any piece of political chicanery, irrespective of how low or how unfair it may be, provided that they can obtain a few votes from those people in the Western Province who feel as they do.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Glenhuntly).I trust that I am not one of the pathological cases referred to so vehemently by the honorable member for Sunshine. I believe any rightthinking person in the community will recognize that the situation which exists to-day is clearly a test.

Dr. JENKINS.-It is politically right.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-I thank the honorable member for his interjection because I failed to say that it is right in every way, and I believe every right-thinking person in the community will agree that this situation is clearly a test between law and order promoted by the Government and anarchy promoted by the trade union movement and the Labor Party. It is understandable that the Leader of the Opposition, with his limited knowledge of industrial affairs, should open the batting on the side of the Labor Party.

Mr. TURNBULL.-He is the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-That is the whole point; he is fearful that soon he will not be the Leader of the Opposition. The once great Labor Party and the trade union movement have over the past few years become pretty pathetic, impotent, sterile and much-unloved bodies. Members of the Opposition recognize that this situation to-day is due entirely to a failure in their own camp. They recognize also that over the past few years, and particularly the past few months, they have been thoroughly thrashed in the Higgins by-election, in New South Wales and in South Australia.


Mr. HOLDING.-Tbe Labor Party received 53 per cent. of the votes in South Australia. Your Government has never obtained more than 36 per cent.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-The Labor Party is now disowned by its own union groups. It has been stated to-day that the Municipal Officers' Association is not allied with the trade union movement. But the Municipal Officers' Association has been branded as a communist-led group.

Mr. HOLDING.-Who branded it?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-It has been branded as a communist-led group.

Mr. HOLDING.-By whom?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-Before I accept the invitation of the Leader of the Opposition-

Mr. HOLDING.-Do you believe it is a communist-led group?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-Tbe Leader of the Opposition invited me to reply to half a dozen points that he made. The honorable member for Sunshine did not invite reply to his comments but, since I know him so well, I shall answer some of them. Before doing so, however, I' desire to read a short passage from Hansard, Volume 223, page 4717, which reports a speech made on 23rd April, 1947. It reads-

I support the motion submitted by the Leader of the Opposition, and at the outset would express the view that the time for surrendering to the menacing tactics of powerful pressure groups and of irresponsible persons in the industrial field should cease. I hold strongly to the idea that the situation in Victoria could be greatly improved if the proper steps were taken and an end were made to the weakness which invariably characterizes the Government in the handling of industrial disputes. If law is replaced by lawlessness there can be no justice, and without justice there is anarchy. Where there is anarchy there can be neither social justice, social security nor peace in a country.

Those words sound rather familiar. That challenging statement was made by the honorable member who is now the Leader of the Country Party and, .from the speech that he

delivered in the House this afternoon, it would appear that his views have changed.

Mr. B. J. EVANs.-The situation has changed since 1948.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-I give the Leader of the Country Party credit for making his own view clear to the House, but it remains to be seen whether his view is shared by the other members of his party. It does seem that there has been somewhat of a change ..

I now turn to matters dealt with by the Leader of the Opposition. First, he said that this type of legislation was without parallel in any other State of Australia.

Mr. HOLDING.-YOU have misquoted me.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-I remind the honorable Leader of the Opposition that when he spoke I li.stened to him. in silence.

Dr. JENKINs.-Because you were told to.

Mr. SCANLAN (to Dr. Jenkins).You cannot take it.

The DEPUIT SPEAKER (Mr. L. S. Reid).-Orde:r! I am having difficulty in hearing the honorable member for Glenhuntly.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-The Leader of the Opposition might extend to me the courtesy that I showed him. I invite the attention of the Leader of the Opposition to the New South Wales Emergency Powers Act No. 19 of 1949, the South Australian Emergency Powers Act No. 4 of 1941, the Queensland Industrial Law Amendment Act No.1 of 1965, and the Commonwealth National Emergency (Local Stdke) Act No. 20 of 1949 which was brought in by the Chifley Government. The Leader of the Opposition stated that he did not have much time in which to study this matter.

Mr. HOLDING.-That is not true.

Mr. WILKES.-That was the fault of the Government.


Mr. RAFFERTY.-He need not have made that statement, because his speech clearly indicated that fact. I shall now deal with some aspects of the New South Wales Emergency Powers Act of 1949. " Essential services" are defined as meaning any of the following services, namely, transport, fuel, light, power, water, sewerage, public health including medical and hospital, any service which the Governor by proclamation published in the Government Gazette declares to be an essential service, supplied or provided to the public by any person whomsoever.

The Act contains regulationmaking powers which are very similar to those proposed in this Bill. Section 4 provides, inter alia-

(1) Whenever it appears to the Governor that from any cause the supply or provision of essential services or essential commodities is or is likely to be interrupted or dislocated or become less than is sufficient for the reasonable requirements of the community the Governor may from time to time exercise all or any of the powers conferred on him by or under this Act and do and perform all such acts, matters and things as are necessary or expedient for carrying into effect the provisions of this Act.

Section 5 of the New South Wales Act provides that the Governor may make regulations with respect to a long list of matters, and they are similar te those preposed in this Bill. I think I have amply demonstrated that the first proposition of the Leader of the Opposition is absolutely incorrect. In any case, the situation in Victoria is somewhat different. The Leader of the Opposition well knows that the industrial system in Victoria is not based on industrial commissions, as in the other States, but is a system of wages boards, and therefore the situation in Victoria calls for different treatment.

The second point made by the honorable member was that this Bill strikes at every citizen, not 'Only the trade union mevement. I agree with that. It has always been thus in the existing legislation, and that has not been altered. Nobody quarrels with that situation.

The third point that the Leader of the Opposition made was that there had been no evidence to suggest a need for legislation such as this. I disagree with him.

Mr. HOLDING.-Tell us about the communist influence.

Mr. RAF'FERIT.-I intend to do se. I draw the attention of honorable members to a passage in an article in the Sun News-Pictorial of 6th March, 1968, which quotes the secretary of the Trades Hall Council, Mr. M. C. Jordan. No one will deny that he is an erudite, reliable person, and I accept what he says.

Mr. HOLDING.-How do you know that that is what he said?

Mr. RAF,FERTY.-The report states-

The secretary of the Trades Hall Council, Mr. M. C. Jordan, said last night the Government was "being baited" into using the Act by "communist influences." He was referring to the action taken by the Municipal Officers' Association.

Mr. HOLDING.-He was not. Mr. WILKEs.-He was not, and you

know it. You say that, knowing that we cannot call you a liar.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. L. S. Reid).-Order!

Mr. RAFFERIT.-A second reference by Mr. Jerdan later in the article is to the same effect; it is in inverted commas and heavy print.

Mr. HOLDING.-That is not evidence that he made the statement.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-I trust the reliability 'Of Mr. Jordan.

Mr. HOLDING.-You are trusting the reliability of that newspaper. What are you talking about, yeu great clown?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-Mr. Deputy Speaker, I can see that the invitation I extended to the Leader of the Opposition a short while ago has not been accepted. The article states also-

Some unions have obviously shown a blatant di~regard of the rules and procedures of the trade union movement.


Mr. WILKES.-Did he name the Municipal Officers' Association?

Mr. 'RAFFERTY.-He certainly spoke about the Municipal Officers' Association.

Mr. HOLDING.-What did he say about it?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-I suggest that there is ample evidence of the need for the Government to take some action, particularly when it is remembered that the Municipal Officers' Association held to ransom the people of this State. As the Minister has stated on a number of occasions, the Government is very concerned about the interests of the third party, the community, which is always affected by these disputes. The Government is concerned not only on behalf of the community as a whole which has suffered at the hands of the Municipal Officers' Association, but also on behalf of the quarter of a million members of the community who: lost their wages because of the action of the Municipal Officers' Association. There is ample justification for the Government taking the action on which it has decided.

The Leader of the Opposition had a good deal to say about the right to strike. Any honorable member who examines what the Leader of the Opposition said will find that he was really saying, " Get rid of the arbitration system in Australia and go in for the bargaining system tha t operates in the United States of America." I have had the opportunity of visiting the United States of America and discussing industrial matters there. Like most other countries of the world, the United States of America envies greatly the Australian arbitration and conciliation system, which it does not possess. When the big steel strike was on in the United States of America that country would have been very pleased to have machinery such as operates in Australia to deal with the situation which was then crippling the nation.

Another point that was raised con.:.· cerns the leaders of. the Municipal· Officers' Association. I repeat what I· said earlier to-day. I think everyone in the cornmunity knows this or ought to know it. There is little doubt that. the members of the Municipal Officers' Association are currently being led by the nose by a· small "crummy" little group. This situation is not unusual in industrial affairs in Australia. At least half of· the industrial troubles in this country· are not brought about by the will of, the unionists, or by the great body of union members, who are responsible people in the community. Frequently they do not know what is going on in their own unions. Many, of course, vote for the Liberal Party. Time and again these industrial disputes are created by a little coterie at the top. That is precisely what is now happening within the Municipal Officers' Association.

The Leader of the Opposition laid a charge against the Government, wrongly I believe, by asserting that the 3 per cent. levy which the Government: imposed on the turnover of the State Electricity Commission· of Victoria eighteen months ago is the reason why the Commission is not making additional moneys available to its employees. Has anyone ever heard such utter rubbish? The real reason why members of the Municipal Officers' Association or any group of State Electricity Commission of Victoria workers do not receive what they seek is that their· organization refuses to go before the proper tribunal.

The Government has always stood by its vievv that the industrial tribunals of the community are the proper bodies to deal with industrial disputes. The Government has always and will always uphold a decision given by an industrial tribunal. This would apply to the Municipal Officers' Association if that body went before such a tribunal and obtained a decision in its case. I say this despite

3464· Essential Services [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

the assertion by the Leader of the Opposition that it would take five years to complete such a hearing. If this is the case more competent advocates should be obtained to submit a case on behalf of the union. I am sure neither the honorable member for Sunshine nor the honorable member for Brunswick East would take five years to do that. Those honorable members would discharge such duties in a competent manner. It may be that those honorable members should resign from Parliament and assist some of the unions in this way.

The Leader of the Opposition also asserted that the Government gives instructions to the officers of instrumentalities. Of course, this charge falls flat on its face.

Mr. HOLDING.-I have a document to prove it.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-It would be quite easy for the Leader of the Opposition to table the document in this House. The honorable member knows as well as any other honorable member that if any properly constituted industrial organization submits a case to the proper tribunal, it will receive a proper hearing. It is only when an organization chooses not to do so that the matter goes awry. The worst feature of this matter is that many of these employee organizations are sponsored in taking direct action by members of the Trades Hall Council. In support of this, I quote the feature "Labor Speaks ", in the Herald of the 2nd March, 1968. I am sure Opposition members do not need me to tell them who writes these articles. Speaking of the Municipal Officers' Association, the Labor spokesman says-

They have as a result accepted the lessons spelled out by militant unions in the past that direct action is the only course open to them.

The articles goes on to say-There can be no question that the answer

which they chose was the correct one.

Mr. HOLDING.-Who wrote the article?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-Later I shall hand the Leader of the Opposition my copy of the article autographed by the author. Clearly none of the points raised by the Leader of the Opposition have any substance. Now I wish to deal with the arguments submitted by the honorable member for Sunshine. As usual, the honorable member competently recited the early history of the existing legislation on this subject. In doing so, the honorable member stated that there was a reference to communist unions throughout the debates. The honorable member asserted that the situation in 1948 was different from that obtaining to-day but, of course, Mr. Jordan does not agree with him. Mr. Jordan, who ought to know and whose opinion is recognized by Government supporters as important, reliable and responsible, says, "I do not agree with that. I agree that the Government is being baited into using the Act by Communist influences".

Mr. HOLDING.-Do you agree with that?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-Of course, I do. Who am I to disagree with Mr. Jordan? Mr. Jordan has summed up the matter adequately. What honorable member on the Opposition side of the House would disagree with Mr. Jordan, and be sure of retaining his seat? This Bill will in no way stop the normal methods of negotiation or of settling industrial disputes. The Bill deals with essential services. The clear duty of the Government is to ensure that essential services are provided for the community; that no small group in the community can irresponsibly hold the community to ransom; that the people in the community have the right to carry out their jobs and are not inconvenienced in doing so ; that their rights are not trespassed upon by any other irresponsible group in the community, and that the third party in all these industrial actions, the public, is treated fairly and honestly.

The Attorney-General presented a clear exposition of the purposes of


the Bill, but Opposition me,mbers choose to disregard what he said and attempt to draw red.Jherrings across the trail to impede passage of the Bill. However, the situation is quite clear: On two recent occasions the community has been held to ransom by members of an irresponsible group which cannot be controlled by the trades union movement, even if it wanted to control them, and a group that is being influenced, as stated by Mr. Jordan--

Mr. HOLDING.-That is a lie; you know it is a lie.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. L. S. Reid).-Order!

Mr. HOLDING.---He is telling Parliament a deliberate lie ; Mr. Jordan did not say that. Mr. Deputy Speaker, you should make him tell the truth.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER.-The honorable member for Glenhuntly is in 'Order in making his own speech.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-It is also a group which, on a number of occasions, through the press and otherwise, has indicated that it still intends to hold the community at ransom. The Government is acting quite rightly in attempting to ensure that the community is not held to ransom. I therefore support the Bill.

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East) .-The speech we have just heard from the honorable member for Glenhuntly is typical of speeches he has made in this House on matters concerning industry. All his life, he has been on the opposite side of the fence to organized labour. I do not accept the compliment paid to the honorable member for Sunshine and me that we would have been able to settle the Muncipal Officers' Assoda .. tion dispute in five minutes, because, probably, we would have had the same difficulties in attempting to influence the officers of the State Electricity Comm.ission, who have been directed by the Premier, that the men engaged within the Com,mission's organization have a justifiable complaint.

Because the honorable member for Glenhuntly and I, together 'with others from the trade union movement, have

always been opposed, even before we entered Parliament, I can readily understand his contribution in support of this Bill. He has remained true to form and has not dev·iated one iota, although, after thirteen years of Parliamentary experience, I thought he would have mellowed since the time he was industrial officer for Australian National Airlines.

I agree 'with the honorable member for Sunshine that the views of Govern,ment members are pathologicat I can well understand this in relation to the honorable member for Glenhuntly, 'because I recollect that when an official of the clerks' union, of which I was a rnember, sought the opportunity to address the clerks in the organization of which the honorable member was industrial officer, the union official was told, "I am prepared to let you address the clerks on why they should join the union provided that you allow me to tell them why they should not be in the union ". This pathological attitude has remained with the honorable member ever since, and to-day's contribution clearly deJmonstrates that fact.

The Essential Services Bill was introduced in 1948 because of events at that time. Communist-led unions had created, in the Government's view, a state of anarchy, and the Government considered it was necessary to introduce legislation, which was supported by the Country Party at that time. The Labor Party opposed the Bill, not because it was defending the com'munists or the communist-led unions, but because it knew that legislation of this type could be used against good citizens. The fact that the Act has never been used proves that it was unnecessary.

Over the past twenty years, strikes have occurred within the State Electricity Commission, but not even the Premier has suggested that he should exercise his jurisdiction and impose the regulations under the Act. Strangely, an organization which has no connexion with the trade union movement has actuated the Premier to take these


steps, when at an election probably most of its members would vote for the Liberal Party rather than the Labor Party. If they are sensible they will have grave doubts as to which party they will give their support at any future election. I believe they are intelligent people.

The Municipal Officers' Association believes that its claim is justified. I have heard some of the officers put their case, and I am satisfied that it is justified. -A work value case was put to the State Electricity Commission some time ago, and they received a decision on that matter. However, there was also the question of relativity. Anybody who is associated with the trade union ·movement or with industrial law knows what relativity means, and Government members should honestly admit that they believe in relativity. This is the principal concern of members of the Municipal Officers' Association.

The Leader of the Opposition quoted the case of a leading hand who is receiving a higher salary than a supervisor because the leading hand's salary has been increased, whilst the supervisor's salary has not been increased on the basis of relativity. The principle of relativity applies in all classifications throughout the Public Service, and with white collar organizations throughout the length and breadth of Australia, so there should be no argument about that principle.

The Government now proposes to amend the Essential Services Act by adding new section 3A, sub-section (6) of which states-

(6) Any person who while a proclamation as to the security or welfare of the State under this section is in force takes part in or continues or incites urges aids or encourages the taking part in or continuance of a lock-out or strike in or in relation to the action or actions referred to in such a proclamation or who does any act that he is forbidden to do or omits to do any act that he is required to do in or in relation to his employment in any essential service or any public service provided by the State shall be guilty of an offence and liable to be imprisoned for a term of not more than one year or to a penalty of not more than $1,000 or to both such imprisonment and penalty.

Mr. Fennessy.

This amendment covers the whole sphere of a man's rights. In other words, if I were to argue on the job with a particular person and say that he should join me by withdrawing his labour, under this sub-section I would be liable to all the penalties involved; in other words, I cannot have an opinion. This amending Bill will create a race of Government pimps spread throughout industry to detect anyone who offends against the Act.

I should have thought that this particular sub-section was taken from Adolph Hitler's manual-it could not have come from anything else. I am surprised that the back-bench members of the Government have been bulldozed into accepting this measure. The Premier made the rash statement that he did not intend that the public should be held to ransom by the brigands of the Municipal Officers' Association. He therefore hastily conceived this Bill, put it before Cabinet, showed it in the party room, and is now rushing it through Parliament. Even his own back-bench members were not permitted to read its contents. If they had had the opportunity to read the Bill, certainly they would not have been able to understand it. I feel sorry for them, because they will be taken to task by their electors, not only by the blue collar workers but also by the white collar workers. When they are asked for their views, watch them scurry for cover.

I can understand the back-bench members of the Government being most unhappy. The Attorney-General delivered a most pathetic secondreading speech, which comprised only four pages of notes. Much of this was taken up with what was said by Mr. Gunter, the Minister of Labour in the British Parliament. The honorable gentleman stated the reasons why the Bill was introduced, and he said-

Mr. Gunter also said "The evolution of industrial power requires the law shall be such it shall safeguard the interest of the nation as a whole.

We all agree.


Much can be said about strikes, official and unofficial, and I would defend the right of the man to withdraw his labour.

Does the Minister agree with that? This Bill is withdrawing the right of a man to withhold his labour. Naturally, like all good Labor men, Mr. Gunter would defend the right of a man to withdraw his labour. How many Government members have been involved in a strike? Have they ever withheld their labour? The silence of the back-bench members of the Government is significant; they have not the fortitude to stand up for themselves either now or in the party room. They are eating humble pie.

The Attorney-General prefaced his second-reading speech by stating that the Age newspaper in .jts editorial this morning, had its facts wrong, that it had misconstrued the Essential Services Act with regard to the secret ballot. The honorable gentleman said the editorial suggested that the Government intended to withdraw the right of the ballot to members of a union to decide whether they should go on strike. Honorable members know that, under the Essential Services Act, it is necessary for a union t0' conduct a ballot of members and obtain a majority vote before a strike can take place. The Municipal Officers' Association held a meeting, and it went on strike by a majority decision.

Mr. MEAGHER.-By a show of hands.

Mr. FENNESSY.-I was not there, so I do not know. However, 1,000 members of that organization were present at the meeting, and they were right behind the proposal put to them. The Government cannot dispute the fact that the decision had the approval of the members because of the large number who attended a meeting at the Myer Music Bowl to have their protests placed on record. It is strange that the AttorneyGeneral said there was no provision in the principal Act for a secret ballot.

Mr. G. O. REID.-I did not say anything of the kind.

Mr. FENNESSY.-I understood the honorable gentleman to say so. Of course, he did not keep to his circulated second-reading notes, and he elaborated his remarks at certain points.

Mr. G. O. REID.-That is the way second-reading speeches should be made.

Mr. FENNESSY.-The AttorneyGeneral said that when the Federal Liberal Government came to power in 1949, it introduced legislation providing for secret ballots. By this Bill he has attempted to bring the Essential Services Act into line with the legislation under which the Arbitration Commission operates. I know of no reason for doing this because provision is made in the existing Act for secret ballots.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The penalty provision is being deleted, and you should be supporting that. You are off the beam.

Mr. FENNESSY.-I know what I am talking about, and I know what the Minister said in his secondreading speech. When he was explaining the measure which became the Essential Services Act the then Attorney-General, Mr. Oldham, is reported at page 648 of volume 226 of Hansard as having said-

Clause 10, which is one of the most important clauses of the Bill, is designed to give effect to the policy of the parties who sit on the Government side of the House in regard to the holding of secret ballots before employees in essential industries go on strike. Therefore, all that is required is contained in that legislation, but the Government has not exercised its rights under that Act when strikes have occurred in the past. Why is it necessary, on the eve of a byelection, to bring down a measure of this description which is aimed at an organization having no connexion with the trade union movement and which was merely doing what it was entitled to do? It was


simply withholding its labour. I should like the Premier to give the House his reasons for taking this action.

I propose to read part of the leading article in this morning's Age to which the Attorney-General did not refer. It cannot be said that the Age is a great supporter of the Labor Party; it supports the Government ,and has done so for the past 30 years. The leading article states-

The Government is understandably angry at the disruptions to the State's electricity supplies and the threat of strikes in other public utilities. But an attempt to answer these disruptions and threats with drastically regressive legislation at this stage would be provocative and premature. The Premier has accused unionists in the vanguard of the present industrial unrestmembers of the Municipal Officers' Association employed by the State Electricity Commission of Victoria-of not following properly established procedures and of refusing to show restraint. His criticism is valid, but it is not strengthend by his proposal to amend the Essential Services Act.

The strikers are tearing up the book of rules; Sir Henry Bolte is ready to re-write it. A further paragraph reads-

There is another serious objection to the expected change in the Essential Services Act. It would hand another weapon to an industrial system which, in its power to inflict punishment, is already weighted against employees. It is obvious that the penal clause contained in this Bill is just as regressive as the penal clauses contained in the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Act.

The honorable member for Glenhuntly also referred to the fact that it was unwise for an 'industrial organization to enter into a collective bargaining arrangement. That is a matter of opinion. I know what happens in the United States of America where collective bargaining is used extensively. Although generally speaking, in Australia recourse is had to conciliation and arbitration, a great deal of collective bargaining occurs from day to day. As a matter of fact, in many industries the total work value increases granted by the Arbitration

Mr. Fennessy.

Commission are being paid as a result of collective bargaining entered into by the federal unions concerned. I assure the House that in the past as a union official I did a lot of bargaining with employers, both Government and private. In our discussions with the Commonwealth Public Service Board, it was only as a last resort that we went to arbitration. There is nothing wrong with collective bargaining. It is suggested that the Municipal Officers' Association or any other union should never approach a State instrumentality in an endeavour to obtain improved working conditions and higher wages for its members. However, when such an ,approach is made invariably the matter is referred to a co-ordinating committee which, as the Premier stated in reply to a question asked by the honorable member for Moonee Ponds, consists of a number of personnel or industrial officers from statutory bodies. Generally speaking, the view of the co-ordinating committee is that it will agree to nothing because if a concession is granted to one party it will then apply to all statutory bodies.

I understand that the Municipal Officers' Association approached the State Electricity Commission concerning relativity and was given a certai~ undertaking. However, instructIOns then came from the coordinating committee or from the Premier, the negotiations ceased, and the association was told to go to arbitration. With some justification, the association asserted that a promise had been broken, and it took wh~ t it consi.dered to be the necessary actIOn. It WIthdrew its labour, \vhich is a fundamental right of everybody who works for a living.

The provisions of clause 3 of this Bill take away that right. The Premier may say that I am wrong in my assertion, but that is how I understand the Bill, and I am sure that many other people are of the same opinion. It takes away the fundamental right of


a person to withdraw his labour, and the right to agree or disagree with a particular proposition. As has already been said, even the press may be involved. The proposed legislation is bad; it is, as the Leader of the Opposition said, evil, and is completely unwarranted. If the Government believed at any time that the State was being held to ransom, it could take whatever steps were necessary under the powers of the existing legislation. During the thirteen years that I have been a member of this House, the Premier has never initiated any such steps, although there has been much industrial unrest during that period. He has never at any time suggested that the Government would use the powers of the Essential Services Act.

Now, amendments to the Act are made because of one minor case concerning the Municipal Officers' Association, a white collar organization not affiliated with the Trades Hall Council. I suppose that, in the main, the members of the Municipal Officers' Association vote for the Liberal Party, although I have grave doubts whether they will do so in future. I say to them publicly that, if they have any sense, they will not do so. Surely, all white collar organizations will see what can result from this measure. If the members of the Victorian Teachers Union or of the Secondary Teachers Association withhold their labour, as the Secondary Teachers Association did a short time ago, will the Government use this legislation against them.

Mr. SCANLAN .-It is impossible. Mr. FENNESSY.-The interjec

tions of the honorable member for Oakleigh means that this measure can only be taken as an exercise by the Government because of the byelection in the Western Province of the Legislative Council. As the Leader of the Opposition has suggested, the Premier apparently hopes to give the impression that he leads a strong and powerful Government which intends to keep law and order.

In fact, very little legislation enacted by the Victorian Parliament is implemented to the full. How can it be enforced when the Police Force is at only half strength and other Government Departments employ an insufficient: number of inspectors? The Government introduces legislation as window dressing to give the impression that it means business when, in actual fact, it achieves nothing. As the Leader of the Opposition stated so strongly-he was ably supported, by the honorable member for Sunshine-this is bad legislation.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-At the outset I compliment the Leader of the Opposition, and the honorable member for Sunshine, particularly, on the way in which they put their case, although I believe it is a bad case. They put it well, but, more importantly, they put it without heat. If this debate continues to the end of its allotted time, I hope it will be continued in that vein. Only in that way can one really appreciate the points made by speakers on opposite sides.

Much has been said concerning the history of the Essential Services Act, and I shall not waste time in repeating the statements that have been made. In 1948, both Houses were recalled on 15th January and the Bill which became the Essential Services Act was treated as an urgent measure and passed through the Parliament in one sitting. Contrary to the belief of the Opposition that it was not proclaimed-and this is something to which, I think, each speaker has referred-the legislation was proclaimed on 14th July, 1949, and it was operative for fourteen days.

Mr. TURNBULL.~WaS it ever used?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Yes, it was proclaimed and used on 14th July, 1949. There may be a quibble about whether any of the penal provisions were used or not as all our memories are rusty, but it actually came into force on one occasion. I was interested in the history recounted


by the honorable member for Sunshine and the suggestion that the enactment of the legislation possibly caused the split in the HollwayMcDonald Government and led to a completely Liberal Party Government, which I had the honour of joining on 6th December, 1949. But that is not the history of the legislation in the sense that it was generally and correctly believed that the Country Party was far more determined to use the provisions of the Act, in all its forms, than the Liberal Party. It is also well known that, at the time, the Victorian Premier, the Leader of the Liberal Party, Mr. T. T. Hollway, gave an assurance tha t, if he felt he should proclaim the Act, he would not take that action without prior consultation with the Melbourne Trades Hall Council. I readily give the same assurance.

In this day and age, with all the industrial problems which inevitably arise between employer and employee, there should be a recognized body leading and speaking for the trade union movement. Victoria has seen the spectacle of a strike in the Latrobe Valley which was not condoned by the Melbourne Trades Hall Council. It is possible-although I could not vouch for it-that the Government could have assisted Mr. Jordan and the Trades Hall Council in disciplining the people whom they wanted to discipline. We are now faced with the case of the Municipal Officers' Association which is not affiliated with anybody; it is independent and as free as the breeze.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-It is affiliated with the Australian Council of Salaried and Professional Associations.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-That may be. State Electricity Commission officers became members of the Municipal Officers' Association only because they wanted the advantage of Federal awards, and they have had advantages from them. These are the people who voluntarily withdrew their labour. I do not quibble about the right of any people to withdraw

their labour, although I quarrel with the reasons, the advisability, and so on of the Municipal Officers' Association members in doing so. However, the Government is not in any way the stand-over merchant which the Opposition would have people believe. The members of the Municipal Officers' Association have had tremendous advantages from Federal awards, and their white collar members are the envy of all other white collar workers who hold similar positions in other enterprises. This is the basis of the two stoppages. Although its members wanted to be under Federal awards, the Municipal Officers' Association was too smart to file a claim for the simple reason that it knew that it could not stand up to exam ina tion.

Mr. WILKEs.-On what do you base that opinion?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Can anyone seriously suggest that a clerk, typist, stenographer or white collar worker in the State Electricity Commission is entitled to hundreds of dollars a year more than similar workers in the railways? This is what happened recently. We, as a Government, have been accused of not being willing to negotiate. That allegation is entirely untrue. Not long ago, the Government introduced what is now commonly known as SICS-direct negotiation with the Government and the Trades Hall Council for employees of public utilities who missed out on industrial awards, fringe benefits, and so on. We sat around a table and ironed out difficulties. The Government voluntarily gave these benefits not to one public utility but to several. That is why the State industrial co-ordination scheme has been established.

I do not think any honorable member believes that an employee of the Railway Department is worth less than an employee of the State Electricity Commission if he is doing the same work. But that is what members of the Opposition have been trying to ram down our throats to-day, that a selected few people have the right


to make outrageous demands, and then throw the whole country into turmoil because they have not received what they consider to be their just rights. However, those people realize that their demands are not just, because they will not file a proper claim.

Mr. DIVERS.-Do you not consider that a foreman should receive more than a leading hand?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-I have no doubt that if that case were isolated--

Mr. WILKES.-It is not. Sir HENRY BOL TE.-The Munici

pal Officers' Association is too smart to isolate a case. It says, "Across the board or nothing". It has stated two or three examples where there are legitimate reasons why the people concerned should get "the flow-on" from the recent metal trades award. I am the first to admit it, but not so far as the Municipal Officers' Association is concerned.

Mr. WILKEs.-And not employees of the State Electricity Commission?

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-Employees of the State Electricity Commission are entitled at any time to sit around a table and negotiate, despite what has been said. These matters must be understood and appreciated. A body of people-7,OOO, I am informed-just on their own whim and desire inconvenienced 3,000,000 Victorians and threw out of work-admittedly for one day, although some people lost two days because of the tapering in and tapering off of the power and lost overtime shifts-250,000 people who were unprotected.

What is the role of Government? When Ministers are sworn in, they take an oath that they will administer their office without fear or favour. Despite the twitting of the Opposition that some of the people involved in the dispute, or even half of them, would vote Liberal, would that be a just reason why the Government should not approach this matter without fear or favour? Rather, the opposite situation prevails; the last

thing this Government wishes is to create or to further industrial turmoil. However, it is well known that this year could be the worst in Australia's history in this field.

The Government is seeking in this Bill additional powers or enlarged powers, but not in connexion with the essential services themselves, because this situation could be easily and cleverly handled, as was pointed out by interjection by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition when he said, " But the essential services were working". Of course, they were working. Therefore, the principal Act could not be operative in connexion with a 24-hour stoppage because essential services, such as transport and health, were still operating. But what about. the general public? I come back to the point that 250,000 persons were thrown out of work.

Mr. HOLDING.-Who gave you that figure?

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-It can be obtained from industry. The Government's role is to protect the welfare and the rights of the individual in this State and not to allow any group, whether of employers or employees, to throw so :many people out of work. I believe the Government has acted correctly in introducing this Bill.

Like the Premier in 1948, I should fervently hope that this legislation would never have to be used. As I said at the outset of my remarks I give an assurance to Mr. J ordan a~d the Trades Hall Council that before proclaiming the Act the Government would have consultation, because I am a grea t believer in there being a spokesman for the trade union movement. I believe there are far too many people speaking, or purporting to speak, for that movement. Although members of the Opposition have gallantly defended the Municipal Officers' Association to-day, their hearts are not really in the task because they realize for a start that the Trades Hall Council itself is not on the side of the Association on this particular issue.


Mr. WILKEs.-The Municipal Officers' Association is not affiliated with the Trades Hall Council.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Of course it is not and the Trades Hall Council is not sympathetic with the Association, as the honorable member is aware.

Mr. WILKEs.-Mr. Jordan warned you.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Mr. Jordan was worried about this Bill. I wish to assure Mr. Jordan that over the twelve and a half years that I have been dealing with him and other members of the Trades Hall Council I believe our discussions have been conducted in the best possible manner. I have no regrets in regard to any of the dealings that I have had with Mr. Jordan and the Trades Hall Council, and I desire that state of affairs to continue. The last thing I want to do is to offend them or to interfere with their workings. I give that assurance to make the position clear, but at the same time, as a Government, we are not going to stand idly by if other people in the community, without having what we would consider to be a reasonable cause, take the law into their own hands.

I realize that the expression" You abide by the niles" can be misunderstood. It has been said, "You make the rules", but there are rules in the sense of arbitration and/or conciliation. Last April twelve months, the Municipal Officers' Association put some form of claim to the State Electricity Commission and it was rejected. Later in the year-I think about October-it put another claim to the State Electricity Commission, and that is the claim the Municipal Officers' Association states has been lingering on for some two years. But it is a claim that "goes across the board". The honorable member for Northcote said to-day that the Municipal Offi,cers' Association has to wait from two to five years for its claims to be heard. It has already waited two years, according to it, but it has not made a legitimate attempt to have the case heard in the proper manner.

Mr. WILKES.-It has. Sir HENRY BOLTE.-It has not, as

the honorable member is aware, and the Municipal Officers' Association knows the reason for this situation. This legislation will be all-embracing -it will not necessarily be directed at the Municipal Officers' Association.

Mr. HOL'DING.-That is true. Sir HENRY BOLTE.-It is not

directed at one group; it could opera te in any field.

Much has been said about Federal arbitration law, but it must be remembered that the Federal law has little or nothing to do with the average person's daily life. It is the prerogative of a State Government to look after health, transport, educa tion, and all of the matters that really mean something to the average individual. I do not think that any case could be made out on the basis that the employees referred to are covered by Federal law, either by way of penal clauses or anything else. By means of penal clauses, unions and individuals can be fined, but that is of no help to the 3,000,000 citizens of the State.

Mr. WILKES.-It does not stop industrial disputes.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-That may be so. As I have said earlier, we do not wish to reach that point, but if it is reached the community should be protected.

I see no difference between seven one-day stoppages spread over seven weeks and a seven-day stoppage in one week. The result is much the same in each case; in fact, the results of seven one-day stoppages spread over seven weeks are probably more devastating. It is something that neither this Government nor any other Government could condone. I conclude by saying that the Government has not brought in this Bill on impulse. It has taken this action out of a sense of duty to the citizens of Victoria-that has been the sole motive.


Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-To-day honorable members have heard the Premier speak in a calm frame of mind and, because of this, the Opposition senses some shift of ground by the honorable gentleman from his original attitude to this legislation. In his utterances in the press, the Premier was quite different -he appeared to be belligerent-yet to-day he has said that he is prepared to consult Mr. Jordan, of the Melbourne Trades Hall Council, before the proclamation of this legislation. Members of the Opposition are pleased to have that assurance. However, if the Premier is willing to do that, why was he not prepared to talk about his proposed amendments to the Essential Services Act before introducing them? The Premier has said that his relationship with Mr. Jordan and with the Melbourne Trades Hall Council over the years has been on a very high plane. If that is so, one would assume that he might have considered discussing the amendments with that council before he made his outbursts in the press, in which he threatened every unionist in the State.

To-day the Premier says that the position is not as bad as it appears to be; that it is the Government's intention to protect a quarter of a million people-a figure which he plucked out of the air. I should like to know where that figure was obtained. Whenever the Opposition has endeavoured to obtain statistics from the Government in connexion with the drought or unemployment, none have been available, yet the Government has no trouble assuring the House that as a result of the stoppage last Friday a quarter of a m.iIlion people lost a day's pay, oras the Premier said-more than a day's pay.

Everybody acknowledges that when there is a stoppage--whether bv 50 men or 100 men-there must be some inconvenience. However if the inconvenience suffered by' a number of people who were not able to work last Friday is the reason for

the inclusion of the additional penal clauses in this Bill, the Government has disregarded what has happened in Victoria in the last seven or eight years, because in that time there has been a steady diminution in the number of industrial stoppages.

Mr. W'ILCOX.-There has been good government.

Mr. WILKES.-Not according to the Prenlier and the AttorneyGeneral. They have given assurances that the enactment of this Bill is necessary because of unprecedented industrial unrest. If the Government considers that there has been unprecedented industrial unrest in the State during the past two months, it has seen nothing, because, in the opinion of members of the Opposition, legislation of this type will encourage industrial unrest such as has never before been seen in Victoria; and the Premier has some doubts about it, because he has said so. Figures that obviously were not studied by the Attorney-General before he introduced the Bill clearly show that from 1953 to the September quarter of 1967 the number of disputes over the whole of Australiaand I shall also quote Victorian figures-declined from 1,400 to 348. In Victoria. over the past six years, the figures have dropped steadily. In 1962, for instance, there were 208 industrial disputes; in 1966, 179; (and in the September quarter of last year, 57.

Mr. DlxoN.-Are they Commonwealth or State figures?

Mr. WILKES.-These are figures issued by the Commonwealth Bureau of Census and Statistics on 17th January, 1968.

Mr. DLxoN.-Were all of them strikes?

Mr. WILKES.-No, industrial disputes-not necessarily strikes. As the Minister well knows, industrial disputes do not necessarily precipitate strikes. It has been stated that the Government feels there is need for repressive legislation such as this

3474 Essential Services [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) . Bill.

in times of industrial upheaval in this State. I point out that the Act has never been invoked. However, when a body of white collar workers who from 30th September, 1966, have been trying to obtain wage justice from the State Electricity Commission decided, by a majority of its members, to take strike action as a last resort, the Government-for some reason best known to itself and now known to the Opposition and to the people of Victoria-took steps to introduce repressive legislation in the nature of amendments to the Essential Services Act.

The Premier has said that these workers did not do much in the way of having their claims settled, but I point out that they had conferences with the State Electricity Commission concerning their awards in October, November and December of 1966, and in January, March, April and May of 1967. The conferences were to no avail. The Leader of the Opposition and the honorable member for Sunshine thoroughly canvassed the reasons for this. The State Electricity Commission has been operating under consent awards for as long as it has been in existence. It was obvious that the Municipal Officers' Association had reached the end of the road and that it was necessary for it to take direct acti,pn such as the stoppage last Friday. Has the Government intervened in any conciliatory way to urge the Municipal Officers' Association and the State Electricity Commission to get together aronnd a table and take certain steps in relation to the claims?

Mr. DIXON.-It was suggested that the Municipal Officers' Association should go to a conciliator.

Mr. WILKES.-It was suggested also that the State Electricity Commission should go to a conciliator, and it has appeared in court to seek an order against the Municipal Officers' Association. Is that any way to get the parties around a

table? The honorable member for St. Kilda suggests that the only way to achieve conciliation in this case is to have a gun in one hand and an invitation in the other; and that is exactly what has happened.

The Opposition is well aware of the circumstances which led to the industrial stoppage and of the action taken by the Municipal Officers' Association. I do not wish to canvass the reasons for that although, if members supporting the Government are not aware of the reasons for the actions of the Municipal Officers' Association, I am prepared to read them out one by one. However, that may not be necessary. Perhaps after hearing the Leader of the Opposition and the honorable member for Sunshine, who were congratulated by the Premier on the case they submitted, although the honorable gentleman did not agree with it, there is no need for the Opposition to canvass the reason for the strike.

The history of the matter has been related by the honorable member for Sunshine, who pointed out that the Government has not always been keen on proclaiming this type of legislation. Although its party supported the initial legislation in 1948, the Government has not been keen to proclaim it. As the Premier indicated, the Act was proclaimed for fourteen days behind the then Premier's back while that honorable gentleman was overseas. Honorable members are aware that this event precipitated certain movements in the Liberal Party. However, those matters are all history. Now the Opposition is concerned about the reasons for the additional penal clauses proposed by the AttomeyGeneral to be inserted in the principal Act. The Premier stated to-day that there was nothing unusual about the Bill, and that the Government did not intend to stand over anybody. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, and members of the Government to consider whether that is so. If the Premier considers that the provisions appearing in clause 3 are not


designed to stand over or to incite, I must confess that I do not know what they are designed to do.

Clause 3 provides, inter alia-Where at any time it appears to the

Governor in Council that any action has been taken or is likely to be taken by any person or body of persons which is prejudicing or threatening or is likely to prejudice or threaten-

(a) the opportunity of employees (other than those by whom the action has been taken or is likely to be taken) to be gainfully employed in their usual occupations; or



the Governor in Council may pro:ceed with certain action then outlined. If the Government does not intend to stand over the trade union movement in this State, why is there any necessity for any person or body of persons which is prejudicing or threatening, or is likely to prejudice or threaten the things outlined, to be dealt with in this way? How would such persons prejudice or threaten? Would they do so by disagreeing with the Government or their employers? There are many instances in industry to-day of employees disagreeing with their employers on various matters and having the right to disagree with demands made on them by their employers. If one of these matters becomes the subject of a stoppage in an essential industry and someone outside the union concerned in the stoppage dares to disagree with the employers or the Government, he will be liable to be dealt with under this legislation. The Opposition contends that this is not, as the Premier suggests, a moderate way of handling such a situation. It considers that the purpose of the proposed action is to "stand over" the industrial movement in this State.

Mr. FENNESSy.-1t could affect a demarcation dispute.

Mr. WILKES.-Of course it could. The other night on television Mr. Seaton Ashton was interviewed by a reporter on the political situation

relating to the postal strike. In Mr. Ashton's opinion the men were justified in making certain demands. Under this Bill, if a gentleman dared to appear on a television programme and to say that he agreed with certain demands that men engaged in an essential industry were making, he would be liable to be dealt with.

Mr. JONA.-Quote the provisions under which he would be liable.

Mr. \VILKES.-They appear in clause 3 of the Bill. Who will decide whether a person incites or prejudices or threatens? A person may express an opinion, and because it is not in line, under the legislation it can be deemed that he is inciting. Who will determine these points-the Governor in Council, the Minister, or Cabinet?

Mr. MEAGHER.-The court.

Mr. WILKES.-In this case the court will not do so. The Governor in Council-in effect the Ministerwill make the decision. Therefore, a person will not need to be involved in an industrial dispute to come within the ambit of the legislation. It may be a housewife or anyone else, who is remote from an industrial dispute. Because of the broadening of the penal provisions of the Act, such persons will be dragged in to suit a situation that really does not exist. Of course, if the Attorney-General considered that such a person should be penalized undelr the Act, he would have to answer for his action. The Minister disagrees with the Premier who said, "We are not standing over anybody. The Bill does not do very much and we are not going to use it, unless we talk to Mr. Jordan. So there is no need to get heated about it. We have to have the provisions because there is some reason for them." The reason has been carefully canvassed by the Opposition, and I think you, Mr. Speaker, and most members of the Government are well aware of the reason.


In his second-reading speech, the Attorney-General stated that the Bill had three main objectives. The first was to cover the situation if the opportunity of employees to be gainfully employed in their usual occupations was threatened by the action of any person or body. The honorable member for Sunshine used the illustration of someone who decided to offer himself for service in one of the public utilities while the men were on strike. He would be protected under the legislation, but men concerned in the strike would not be. In other words, the scab would be protected, while the men who were fighting for a condition would not be protected.

The Attorney-General also stated that a proclamation could be made if the health or safety of the public or of any section of the public was threatened by any person or body. In effect, the Minister said that if a person convinced a body of men in a union or in an industry or in a section of an industry that they had a just right to stop work and the majority of them voted to do so, that person would be liable under the Essential Services Act. The Minister also stated that the Government proposed to take away the penal clause dealing with a compulsory secret ballot. However, in the next breath the honorable gentleman averred that if a majority of members of any union involved in any dispute voted to stop work for any particular reason and the Minister saw fit, he could demand a secret ballot-after the men had already voted! A situation could arise in which men could freely vote to stop work without being intimidated and then be compelled by the Minister, through their organization, to participate in a secret ballot. For what reason would this be done? An examination of the Act and the Minister's second-readingexplanatory speech indicates that it is necessary only for a majority to vote for a stoppage to make it legal.

Mr. Wilkes.

Whether this happens or not, the Minister can call for a secret ballot to be held.

Mr. DIXON.-Do you think that is a bad thing?

Mr. WILKES.-It is not only outrage.ous and ridiculous, but it is also unnecessary. If a ballot is taken at the behest of the Minister and there is a 90 per cent. vote for a strike in an essential industry, does the Minister then claim that the strike is not justified or that it is not legal? These conditions will be created, yet the Premier claims that the Government is not standing over unionists, but desires to create industrial harm.ony. I have indicated the type of harmony that will be created.

I have outlined one or two objections to the Bill, but I strongly suggest that, before he attempts to introduce such provisions into our statute law, the Minister should reexamine it closely and discuss its contents with the industrial movement of this State. In the minds of members of the Opp.os-ition and sane-minded people outside Parliament, there was no necessity for the existing Act, and there is no necessity for this amending Bill. Employers and employer organizations must know that this is not the was to smooth the rough waters of industrial unrest in this State to-day. This form of action has never worked in the past and will never work in the future because, as the Leader of the Opposition rightly stressed, this type of intimidation will be ignored by the trade union movement. Trade unions will not relinquish their right t'O strike because the Government introduces legislation to fit a political situation. The right t.o strike is an inherent right which unionists. have fought for over the years, and they will not be intimidated by the Government's miserable actions.

I was amazed to hear the honorable member for Glenhuntly refer to the defeat suffered by the Labor Party in South Australia, where that party gained almost 54 per cent. of the votes. I point out that the


Government of this State is in office although it received only 36 per cent of the votes cast at the last election. The honorable member for Glenhuntly should not worry about what is happening to the Labor Party in South . Australia, but should concentrate on what will happen to the Victorian Government because, as the honorable member for Sunshine said, the politic-al wheel needs only a slight push to turn and a small change .in the vote in Victoria at the next election may well place a different complexion on the pattern of legislation.

The third change proposed in the Bill is technical in nature. One cannot differentiate between the additional penal provisions which this Bill will insert in the principal Act and the Act itself. The Act is repressive and the debate -in 1948 clearly outlined the stupidity of the Government of the day in introducing this type of measure. Since December, 1949, no Government has attempted to proclaim the Act. It has been allowed to gather dust, but Liberal Governments in the past retained it and attempted to amend and use it at times when they considered it expedient to create industrial anarchy. If this measure is proceeded with, its effect will be opposite to that which the Government intends.

In his quiet way, the Prem-ier suggested that there should be no heat or rancour in this debate. The Government should re-examine the necessity for this Bill, and if it then desires to proceed it should give Parliament a more valid reason for wanting legislation of this type on the statute-book. Such action would do more to encourage industrial peace in Victoria than the Government's actions to-day.

Mr. BlRRELL (Geelong).-In addressing myself to this Bill, I shall refer to the basic premise of the second-reading speech given by the Attorney~General, and enlarge on the philosophy and modes of thought

which obtruded themselves during his remarks. In analysing a problem such as this, one ultimately gets back to the question of freedom of action, and how far it should be permitted to go.

lt can be said that freedom is absolute for one person on an iceberg, on a small ship at sea, or even on an island. But when one considers a society or a group of people either -indi.vidually or socially, general safeguards and restrictions must be placed on human activities. Law and order based on security can reign only under these conditions.

In the past 100 years, industry has becorne highly complex and highly integrated, and the divis,ion of labour has more and more extended to the point where no single segment of industry or the community can con-. sider itself independent. Society and industry tend to be m,ore and more dependent on one another, and each part works at the behest and with the co-operation of the other. Modern technology will probably support the view that this tendency will increase rather than decrease. The modern use of centralized power is an example. It is almost mandatory that a source of power and energy such as electricity should be made available to industry and to the whole community. This is not to be argued; it is the ideal method by which industry and society should operate.

No man is an island, nor is industry. Weare aU part of the one stream. One can take the analogy of a stream flowing to the sea. It can be expected that something will protrude from the banks, but the main stream continues. The time may come when a stream will be blocked by a sand bank and will become useless. In a modern community, the absence of electricity is the sand bank in the stream. Is it right that one group can stop the supply of the life-blood of industry by autocratic action? A declaration must be made one way or the other, and tha t is the philosophy behind the Bill.


To where does the freedom of the individual or groups of individuals extend? Can it extend to pervade the whole society and its complex structure to-day? There must be some means by which this anarchistic streak which protrudes from human nature can be blunted in some way or another. What machinery is available in the States or the Commonwealth to control this action when it appears? This comes back to the conciliation and arbitration system which has grown up during this century.

Mr. TURNBuLL.-Were you a member of the Bank Officers' Association?

Mr. BIRRELL.-Yes, and I was the local union representative for my district. In modern terminology I could be called a shop steward. Whilst this does not affect the philosophy of the case presented by the Government, there are probably grounds for having a good look at the conciliation and arbitration machinery and the way in which it works. I do not doubt that there are some ways by which this machinery can be streamlined. The process seems to be quite stretched out and tendentious. Whether it can be pruned without affecting the working of the system is not for me to say in detail. It may be placed on record that in some ways this might be desirable. But it does not take from the Government's case the background of the Bill and the reason why it has been introduced.

Essential services in Victoria are virtually publicly owned. Therefore, there is no argument about the profit motive or the share that the worker takes for his labours. This is nonexistent. When war is declared by any group within a publicly administered body, public utility or public service, it is declared basically not against the industrial manager but against the community. The workers are not complaining so much about their share; they are saying that the community will be held up for ransom, take it or leave it.

There would be more complexities involved if the industries were private enterprise corporations because it could be argued that certain things should happen and that the cost would come out of someone else's pocket. In this case, it is said that the public should pay. Industrial action in relation to essential services is peculiarly a matter of public interest because it reaches into the public sector of the economy, and is a further reason why stoppages must be eliminated to the best of our ability. If the conciliation and arbitration system is to be effective in the context of this dispute, one wonders what is the reason for it when, on the eve of a stoppage, Comm-issioner Neil made a general offer of an immediate hearing and outlined six or seven points that he would be willing to consider?

Mr. TURNBULL.-What are those points?

Mr. BIRRELL.-I have not the details with me at the moment.

Mr. TURNBULL.-Why raise them?

Mr. BIRRELL.-Because of the pI-inciple involved. The Commissioner made a number of attempts to adjudicate on the dispute but there was no response by one of the parties even to discuss terms with the Commissioner in his fair and generous offer. Because of the general division of labour that exists in the community to-day, a stoppage in an essential service affects the people more quickly and to a greater extent than it did in the past. For example, when there is a power stoppage, it is estimated that 250,000 other people have to be laid off work. Employers in Geelong were forced to layoff approximately 7,000 people during the two recent stoppages, and this represents about 20 per cent. of the work force in Geelong. If this percentage is equated to the total Victorian work force, it will be seen that the estimate of 250,000 people being laid off work is not unreasonable.


Invariably the local member of Parliament has the matter put right onto his plate when there is a dislocation of services. Last Friday I received a telephone call from a woman constituent of mine who could not understand why she had been put off work. As a matter of fact, during the past two weeks I have received four or five telephone calls on this subject which indicates that there is some stirring in the community about this matter. The lady, whom I know remotely, is living apart from her husband. She has two small children and earns $6 a day working piece work in a textile factory. She stated that she had certain commitments to meet and therefore it was most necessary that she should earn $30 a week. She complained to me that she had tried to telephone the Trades Hall Council but the telephone was continually engaged. Of course, she was not to know that the Municipal Officers' Association was not affiliated with the Trades Hall Council. This was one case of the individual effects of a power stoppage.

Mr. FLOYD.-Did you help her? Mr. BIRRELL.-I told her that the

Trades Hall Council was probably having a busy time. It was comparatively easy to explain to her that there was insufficient electricity available to enable a textile mill, which did not have its own power supply, to continue to operate.

Approximately three months ago a stoppage on the wharves in Great Britain was resolved, but the ramifications of that dispute were so great that the Prime Minister of Great Britain, Mr. Wilson, included it as one of the reasons for Great Britain devaluing. Some commentators said that this was a superficial reason which was thrown into the ring to make it look more like a general CrISlS. Be that as it may, in the House of Commons a wharf stoppage was given as a reason for the nation devaluing its currency. It is important that the side effects on the community of stoppages in essential services are

not overlooked. Basically, increases in living standards are achieved by higher production, and anything that hampers production affects our living standards.. When 250,000 people are laid off work because of a stoppage in an essential service the community suffers, and every hindrance to production is quite obviously a hindrance to a continued raising of living standards.

The Leader of the Country Party made a good speech during this debate. I enjoy the manner in which he makes his speeches. He does not speak at great length, but he picks out the irnportant parts of an argument and gives a lucid explanation of the key factors. This afternoon he made a great deal of play about clause 3 of the Bill, but after comparing that provision with section 4 of the principal Act I am unable to find a great deal of basic difference. As a matter of fact, the provisions of clause 3 are more specific than the provisions of section 4 .of the existing Act, the side note t.o which reads-

Proclamation of emergency where essential service is or is likely to be interrupted or dislocated. Sub-section (1) of section 4 provides-

Where at any time it appears to the Governor in. Council that any action has been taken or is immediately threatened by any persons or body of persons whereby any essential service is or is likely to be interrupted or dislocated the Governor in Council may by proclamation published in the Governm.ent Gazette (in this Act referred to as a proclamation of emergency) declare that a state of emergency exists in relation to that service. The other sub-sections contain qualifying factors, but I believe the provis,ions .of section 4 give tremendously wide powers at p~esent.

Clause 3 of the amending Bill perhaps provides a little more detail but its main effect is to make the application of the pr.ovisions more specific. There -is no great divergence between clause 3 of the Bill, which was berated by the Leader of the Country Party, and section 4 of the Act, which has stood f.or lltany years.


I direct attention to the following points: First, while I am all for freedom of action being as wide as possible, in any human society, particularly in 1968, there must be some restrictive processes in the interest of the people as a whole. Secondly, the modern division of labour and industry is so great that the community deserves and demands the maintenance of essential services. Thirdly, arbitration has been devised and provided for all industrial disputes, and has been offered in the particular di,spute which has been mentioned to-day. Fourthly, almost completely, essential services are publicly owned in Victoria, therefore strikes are not, in the old sense, strikes against capital or management, but are a form of warfare waged against the community. Fifthly, curtailment and shut-downs of essential services affect hundreds of thousands of people directly and everyone indirectly. Sixthly, the State has a duty to provide its citizens with fruitful work and to provide for the production of goods and services for their benefit and welfare. Seventhly, what is the alternative action a Government can take when a total power shut-down is threatened?

Mr. WILTON.-YOU might find out very shortly.

Mr. BIRRELL.-The Opposition has condemned the measure, ad infinitum, but has made no suggestion for alternative action.

Mr. MUTTON .-What about the arbitration system?

Mr. BIRRELL.-Arbitration has been offered and refused. I may be harsh, but I beUeve Com·missioner Neil offered the Municipal Officers' Association reasonable conditions. He offered to commence arbitration proceedings the next day if the men did not strike, but his offer was refused point blank. People can speak about the processes of conciliation being required first, but sometimes it fails to bring about a result.

Mr. DIXoN.-'Dhe Municipal Officers' Association has not been prepared to conciliate; it will not invite a third party.

,Mr. BIRRELL.-Accepting the fact that there has been some attempt at ·conciliation-and whether one calls it conciliation or not is probably purely a matter of semantics-there comes a point at which, in the interests of the community, a dispute must be referred to an umpire to render an award according to the dr:cumstances in which he is asked to view the situation. This must be the final ans'wer to the problem.

The Bill is presented as a counterweight to the type of action recently taken in an essential public utility. I am not often misled about such things, and I beHeve that the measure is supported by the majority of Victorians.

Mr. WILTSHIRE.-And many trade unions.

Mr. BIRRELL.-That is so. The measure is not only justifiable, it is also democratic. When a Government undertakes an action that has the support of 'most of the people, that is democracy in action. The Opposition should put forward a case for some alternative method of dealing with what is obviously an act ·aimed at the home and heart of the Victorian community, as evidenced by the recent stoppages in the State Electricity Com,mission.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).The case presented to the House by the Leader of the Opposition, and supported by the honorable member for Sunshine and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, clearly shows the Government's fraudulent political practice in regard to industrial relations and the arbitration system as it operates in Victoria. The honorable member for Geelong spent much time in relating an incident of some person losing a day's employment because of a dispute. The Government is attempting to narrow down the whole consideration of the Bill to a dispute between one organization and the State Electricity Com,mission.

The Labor Party's opposition to the Bill is based on the fact that it is an anti-working-class measure aimed


at the trade union movement as a whole, not at just one organization. Many speakers on the Govern.lll:ent benches have said that the MunIcIpal Officers' Association has refused arbitration and has refused toconciliate but I am more 'concerned about' what may happen in the future. A union official may be victimized by his employer, perhaps an instrumentality, for carrying out his duties, and, in defence of his rights, his organization may withdraw the labour of its members. The Government would then be able to take action under this legislation. I do not doubt for one moment that the Govern'ment would do so. It could cause heavy monetary penalties to be imposed on the organization and its officials to be gaoled. This is the real concern of the Opposition.

The key employees of the State Electricity Commission have always worked under consent awards. The Attorney-General was Minister for Electrical Undertakings for some time, and he well knows this to be S'O. Almost since the State Electricity Commission was established, most of its employees have worked under consent awards. When I was employed by the State Electricity Commission, I worked under a consent aw'ard. On many occasions, I was involved in discussions and negotiations with officials of the Commission in drawing up new agreements. At no stage did my organization find it insurmountable to reach agreement with the representatives of that instrumentality.

Mr. G. O. REID.-That was your personality.

Mr. WILTON.-I thank the Minister for the compliment, but I do not think that is so. The offi'cers representing the State Electricity Commission were capable men. The changed pattern in the Commission is due to political direction by this Government. The Municipal Officers' Association has been in existence for many years. At one time I worked alongside members of that body. They were loyal servants of

the instrumentality and the State; yet, overnight they are supposed to have become brigands, a scruffy lot, according to a Govern'ment spokesman. The State Electricity Commission has been in existence since about 1927.

Mr. G. O. REID.-Earlier than that -about 1921.

Mr. WILTON.-I accept the Minister's correction. What is the industrial record of these officers of the Municipal Officers' Association? In how many industrial disputes has this organization been 'involved? On how many occasions has !t thro~n the State into chaos by WIthholdIng labour? The only occasion that I can recall is in the recent dispute when, driven to desperation because of the political direction of this Government, the organization finally resorted to the only means it had to force the issue with the Government-that is, by withholding labour.

The Lea.der of the Oppositi'On related to the House the actions that the organization took prior to the stoppage to ensure that essent!al services of the State were maIntained. As the Minister ,is aware, this practice has alwa~s been followed in the power house Industry. In all industrial disputes in which the power house industry has been involved the unions have always taken the necessary action to ensure the maintenance of essential services.

Irresponsible accusations have been made about communist-controlled unions. Spokesmen of the Liberal Party who indulge in this s'Ort of propaganda never mention names or unions but, in an irresponsible manner, refer merely to "communist-controlled organizations" or "communist-c'Ontrolled unions". They have not sufficient co~rag.e to name individuals .or organIzatIons. This has beeome the normal practice of members of the Liberal Party in their attacks 'On the trade union movement over the past 20 or 30 years. So far as they are concerned, all members of the trade union movement are communists. However, an


examination of the personnel who lead the trade unian movement reveals that they are men who have served this cauntry in peace and war and who have dedicated their lives ta the service 'Of the trade unian mavement. The attitude they adapt is that 'Of servants 'Of the 'Organization that emplays them.

I refute the suggestion that any trade unian 'Official can farce the trade unian mavement 'Or any particular bady ta ga an strike if that bady daes nat wish ta do sa. It is irrespansible for any Gavernment spakesman ta assert that a small graup-a small cartel 'Of scruffy individuals-can force an organizatian ta take part in an industrial dispute. Any member an the Gavernment side 'Of the Chamber wha taak the trauble ta examine the canstitutians 'Of the variaus industrial arganizatians that make up the trade unian movement wauld find that written inta thase canstitutians are demacratic principles which safeguard the rights 'Of the individual. The warkers, the emplayees themselves, make the decisions.

Mr. DIXoN.-Wha elects the secretary 'Of Municipal Officers' Assaciatian? What is demacratic abaut that?

Mr. WILTON.-I am ,cancerned abaut the effect that this Bill cauld have an the trade unian mavement as a whale. As I said earlier, it is an anti-warking-class measure which 'One wauld expect to be fathered by the Liberal Party Gavernment.

It is the respansibility 'Of a unian 'Official to represent his arganizatian ta the best 'Of his ability, ta present the views 'Of his arganizatian and ta repoN back the results of his wark. He is at liberty-I believe it is his respansibility if he cansiders it ta be sa-to infarm his arganizatian that in his 'Opinion he can make na further pragress by negatiation and that the members aught to give consideratian ta withhalding their labaur. He has the respansibility ta make such a report if he believes

the situation warrants it, but it still rests with the members ta make the final decision as to whether or nat they will withhold their labour. Therefare, I da nO't accept the argument advanced by the Gavernment that a small graup, 'Or communist influences, intend to hold the State ta ransam.

I recall reading in the newspapers a rep'Ort 'Of the meeting, and alsa seeing it an televisian, which the Municipal Officers' Assaciatian held at the Myer Music Bawl. It was praminently canvassed by newscasters that there was appasitian '1'0 the continuance ,'Of the dispute. I da nat recall reading any rep arts that the persall'S cancerned were harshly dealt with or that they were restricted in any way fram expressing their views, althaugh they were in the minari ty. On that accasian, as frequently happens in this Parliament when the minarity view is expressed, the majarity view prevailed, and it was the cansidered 'Opinian 'Of the majarity 'Of members 'Of the Municipal Officers' Associatian that they shauld place the matter in the hands 'Of their 'Officers. Apparently, the members have faith in their 'Officers and are prepared ta entrust them with the respansibility 'Of presenting their case. It is nat right far Government spakesmen to attempt to narraw this case. dawn ta the point where it is gaing ta be cancerned 'Only with the actians of 'One 'Organization.

I listened with interest ta the remarks of the Leader 'Of the Country Party wha rightly painted aut that at na time has the Essential Services Act been pr'Oved 01'0 be wanting; nor has it ever been tested or tried. The Leader 'Of the Cauntry Party asks why this Bill is necessary. He referred ta a by-electian which is to take place in a few weeks time and, in doing sa, I believe he accurately assessed the mative 'Of the Government in intraducing this measure.

The Premier entered the debate in a very calm-ane could almast say friendly-manner. As the Leader 'Of


the Opposition has said, the Premier seems to have adopted a changed attitude regarding this legislation. He told the House that he would confer with the Trades Hall Council before invoking the Act and that he believed the Tr·ades Hall Council should speak officially for the trade union movement. Does the honorable gentleman honestly expect members of the Opposition to accept that?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-Do you reject it?

Mr. WILTON.-I do completely, because 1 can recall the honorable gentleman's attitude when he first became Premier of this State and received a deputation from the Trades Hall Council. On that occasion he gave an assurance that he would not suspend quarterly cost-of-living adjustments; but at that time he had not been to Canberra. Upon going to Canberra and receiving his marching orders from the then Prime Minister, the Right Honorable Sir Robert Menzies, he returned to Victoria and broke his word to the trade union movement. Because of the history of his relationship with the trade union movement, the Premier should not expect his word to be accepted.

The honorable gentleman went on to speak about the problems of the people of Victoria, particularly the breadwinners, and made a plea that they ought to be considered. He said that the Government was determined to protect the rights of breadwinners by refusing to allow them to be denied the right to work. Wha t happened to those sentiments when the Premier produced his infamous stamps tax? What were his thoughts for the breadwinners then? Why was he not so concerned about the wage earner when he introduced this tax, which covered the whole of the community, irrespective of capacity to pay?

The 'SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! The honorable member would be out of order in pursuing that subject.

Mr. WILTON.-I assure you, Sir, that I do not intend to.

The SPEAKER.-Reference may be made to it as an illustration, but it cannot be pursued as a subject.

Mr. WILTON.-I use it merely as an analogy, Mr. Speaker. The Premier spent some time in attempting to convince the House that he has a genuine desire to see to the welfare of the breadwinners of Victoria. 1 use that example as a means of rebutting the claim made by the honorable gentleman. It will be interesting to see whether he will defy the Prime Minister regarding the stamp duty on wages and salaries.

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) .--1 rise to a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The remarks of the honorable member do not appear to be relevant.

The SPEAKER.-I uphold the point of order. 1 think the honorable member realizes that although he may mention this matter by way of illustration he may not pursue the subject.


Mr. WILTON.-Prior to the suspension of the sitting, 1 expressed my concern at the effects of the Bill on the trade union movement as a whole. I pointed out that in presenting arguments to justify its proposals the Government had deliberately attempted to narrow the question down to a dispute between a particular .organization and a State instrumentality. Government speakers argued that this organization is virtually holding the State to ransom and depriving members of the community of the opportunity of continuing to engage in their employment.

Those honorable members who have spoken on behalf of the Opposition have clearly demonstrated that the presentation of this proposed legislation is purely an exercise on the part of the Government. In the industrial sphere in this State,


negotiation is an accepted means whereby trade union organizations and employer organizations can settle disputes relating to wages, working conditions, and so on. This practice has been followed for many years. However, instances have occurred which have clearly demonstrated to the trade union movement that, under the present arbitration system, it is possible with protracted legal argument created by expert legal representation to bog down an employee organization to the extent that it can achieve nothing in relation to its claims before the Arbitration Commission.

The Leader of the Opposition referred to a particular case involving the Municipal Officers' Association which extended over a period 'of five years. Surely when a Government instrumentality is involved in this sort of exercise, the Minister concerned has some responsibility to the State to use his good offices in an endeavour to have the parties reach agreement. Let us consider what happens under the regime of the present Liberal Government. The relevant Minister takes no responsibility, but merely sits back on his haunches uttering a constant bleat, "Go to arbitration". That is the only statement that can be obtained from the Government. Of course, the Government is prepared to accept arbitration only when it suits it. In fact, there are instances in which the Government has refused to accept arbitration. The Government demonstrated its partiality on several occasions when it retained legal representatives to appear on its behalf to present argument in opposition to submissions made by the trade union movement before the Arbitration Commission.

Members of the Opposition believe that when a Government instrumentality is involved in a dispute, the Minister concerned has a responsibility to the people of the State to endeavour to bring about a conciliation between the disputing parties. Unfortunately, Ministers

Mr. Wilton.

are not prepared to interest themselves in this way, because they know that under the present arbitration system it is possible to tie up for years the case of an organization representing employees. In the meantime, the members of the organization have to carry on in the best way they can.

The responsible officer within the organiza tion may then consider it his duty to report back to his members that, in his view, nothing can be achieved by continuing with the present form of arbitration. It is then that the rank and file make a decision to take strike action. The Leader of the Opposition has said that nobody takes this action at the drop of a hat; it is taken only after careful consideration and full debate during which all views are freely canvassed, because the employees involved know that they will deprive themselves of income.

The workers of a State and not the Government make a State. On the one hand, the Attorney-General has said that the people to whom reference has been made are irresponsible, and on the other hand the Premier stated that they are very fine people whom the Government does not want to hurt. The Premier and his Minister are at variance on this particular question.

A responsible employer is fully aware of his reliance on the key skilled personnel in his particular industry. The power industry is a key industry because of our way of life. I wish the Government could introduce electrification into its thinking and actions, but that would be too much to expect. The officers of the State Electricity Commission who took action recently are not casual or unskilled workers in the industry; they are key personnel who hold important positions and are responsible for the care of equipment worth millions of dollars, which has been installed for the benefit of the State. For years these officers have ensured that the machinery is used to the best advantage. Now, because they feel


that they have reached the point of no return in this particular dispute and have decided to withdraw their services from their employer to force the Government to give them justice, the Government uses this action as a pretext to introduce one of the worst pieces of anti-working-class legislation to be placed on the statutebook in any part of the world.

Mr. MEAGHER.-Does their action not harm a lot of other people?

Mr. WILTON.-From the Government front benches, we continually hear this bleat about the harm caused to the State, but the Government should consider the harm to the State caused by its inaction and its refusal to face up to its responsibilities to the people of Victoria to ensure that these matters do not reach the point where particular employees are forced to withhold their labour.

It is nonsense for any Minister to suggest that these workers deliberately go out on strike for the enjoyment of causing hardship and inconvenience to the State as a whole. These men hold responsible positions in a key industry, and the State Electricity Commission employment officer would not entrust such jobs to them if they were not responsible men.

I was interested to hear the passing reference of the honorable member for Geelong to our present arbitration system and his opinion that it should be examined. Surely no Government supporter suggests that the relations between the Commonwealth and State Governments have become so strained that this Government can no longer approach a Liberal Party Federal Government in an attempt to resolve the problem, and no longer has the ear of the Prime Minister or the appropriate Federal Minister.

It is a sorry state of affairs in Victoria when the only Government solution to the problem of industrial unrest is to enact legislation which will turn the clock back lOO years. As the honorable member for Sunshine said, penal provisions

Session 1968.-130

have never proved successful in the past. The history of world trade union movements clearly shows that penal provisions achieve nothing. If this Bill becomes law, the effects will be opposite to those outlined in the second-reading speech of the Attorney-General; it will incite organizations to take action in their own defenee which they would not otherwise t.ake.

The great so-called philosophers of the Liberal Party have completely forgotten that the organization of labour in this country was born out of poverty and misery, and that men in earlier days were prepared to put their principles above their livelihood. The same position will apply again, if necessary, because the trade union movement is comprised of Australians who have developed this country to what it is to-day, who have defended the country in time of war, and who have been prepared to lay down their lives to safeguard their democratic principles. That will not change.

I condemn this Bill; as the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Country Party have stated, it is a political exercise on the part of the Government to divert attention from 'its own shortcomings, which will be clearly demonstrated and paraded befo're the electors at the Western Province by-election.

Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-Surely this Parliarnent should exercise its responsibility for the good and wellbeing of the community. The argument of the Opposition has been dominated by the question of the reaction of the Municipal Officers' Association to the passing of this amending legislation. The truth is that members of the Opposition have forgotten that they, as much as the Government, have a responsibility for good and sound administration for all persons within the community, but, by their lengthy discussions,. they have exposed their union relationship and the fundamental fact that at best they 'are members of a sectional par.ty representing the


industrial elements. Whilst they persist in this attitude, they will never govern Victor.ia.

The Leader of the Country Party made the most amazing statements during this debate, and members of the Liberal Party are at a complete loss to understand him. The Leader of the Country Party purported to speak on behalf of his party, but his colleagues did not rise to substantiate his remarks. I expected something from them. What did their Leader say? Obviously, he was not aware of the fact that Mr. Oldham handled the original Bill in this House in 1948.

Mr. Moss.-You were not here.

Mr. SCANLAN.-The Leader of the Country Party was here, and he should have known. He made a grave mistake by committing his party to a false premise in regard to the application of the very Act that his own party supported. The Leader of the Country Party is not aware of his responsibility for legislation that his own party supported in earlier years. He categorically !asked: "Why do you not invoke the current Act?"

Mr. Moss.-I did not make that remark.

Mr. SCANLAN.-Yes, the Leader of the Country Party did make that statement. When I use the term, " current Act", I mean the old Act.

Mr. Moss.-You are now changing your words.

Mr. SCANL'AN.-I refer to the Act passed with the support of the party represented by the present Leader of the Country Party. Why is it that other Country Party members are voiceless? They have not supported their Leader, because they suspect that his reasoning is faulty. I defy the Leader of the Country Party to debate with me on the steps of Parliament House at the top of Bourke-street and explain how it would be possible to -invoke the old Act with the powers that are contained in subsection (1) of section 4 of that Act.

The position in a nutshell is that the Municipal Officers' Association has brought on an industrial dispute, but it has not stopped essential services. Secti'On 4 of the Essential Services Act states-

Where at any time it appears to the Governor in Council that any action has been taken or is immediately threatened by any persons or body of persons whereby any essential service is or is likely to be interrupted or dislocated the Governor in Council may by proclamation published in the Government Gazette (in this Act referred to as a proclamation of emergency) declare that a state of emergency exists in relation to that service.

The essential point is that at no time in this dispute have the defined essential services been stopped by a cessation of electricity supplies. The curious aspect is that throughout the dispute one generator at Morwell has been constantly generating power; the officers of the Municipal Officers' AssociaNon also see to it that hydro-electricity comes to this State. Therefore, the essential services of transport, trams and trains have not ceased to operate, and power has continued to flow through the electricity lines in sufficient quantity to maintain the basic services. At the same time, the supply to industry was disrupted and thus the livelihood of 250,000 workers was ,affected. Ther,e was a loss of inc'Ome to 3,000,000 people of this State because S'O little power could be provided for factories that workers were put off for the day. In those circumstances it w'Ould be difficult to invoke the Essential Services Act and justify the action.

Mr. WILTSHIRE.-It was an irresponsible action.

Mr. SCANLAN.-That is so, but the Leader of the Country Party has suggested that the Government could invoke the existing Essential Services Act, first, to bring industrial peace, and, secondly, to solve the industrial problems now facing the community. Never before in the history of Victoria have we witnessed two such odd and unusual bedfellows as the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Country Party. The


Leader of the Country Party says that the Government can use the Essential Services Act to bring peace to the State in case of emergency, and the Leader of the Opposition says, "We do not want a bar of it; we will throw the whole thing out".

Mr. WILKES.-That is so. Mr. SCANLAN.-How can two

completely opposite points of view live together so happily and easily in a division of this House? On this occasion, for strange and dissimilar reasons, these two parties have joined together to oppose the Govern'ment. The curious thing about the present situation is that, in view of the nature of the electricity dispute, the Government. has not the power to invoke the existing Act. Members of the Country Party are therefore in a position that they will have to go to rural cities in Victoria, such as Shepparton, Mildura, Echuca, Benalla and Wangara tta, and tell the workers who were laid off because of the electricity stoppage that Country Party members opposed the Government's Bill because they thought the Government had sufficient power under the old Act to control the dispute. In so doing they will be supporting unemployment in those cities if further disruption in the supply of electricity in this State occurs.

The Leader of the Country Party suggested that the current Act has never been invoked, but I should like to put the record straight so that members of the Country Party will know where they stand in that regard. They will have to realize that in the future it will be necessary for them to do some diligent work in studying legislation that comes before this House. The current Act was invoked on 14th July, 1949, and certain orders concerning the stevedoring industry and persons hauling coal were approved and a proclamation was gazetted declaring a state of emergency. This proclamation was to have effect for the following fourteen days. If members of the Country Party have any doubt as to whether or not this

actually happened, I recommend them to consult Government Gazettes Nos. 589 and 591, at pages 4111 and 4113.

,Mr. G. O. REID.-That was after the Country Party left the coalition.

Mr. SCANLAN.-Yes. In view of the genera.l criticism of this Act, I wonder if the Attorney-General could inform the Howse whether or not the Labor Party had an opportunity to repeal it.

Mr. G. O. REID.-Yes, it had a chance.

Mr. SCANLAN.-I thank the Attorney-General for that information. The IJabor Party was in office for three years and did nothing about repealing or amending the Act.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-It was also in office for a further two years, with the support of the Country Party.

Mr. SCANL'AN.-Therefore, it had five years i.n which to take action, but it did nothing. Yet, members of the Labor Party in this House grumble about the Government bringing in constructive and sound amendments to this legislation. This House is being seriously misled by both the Opposition and the Country p.arty. The responsibility of the Government is to the whole of the community and not to one section of it. It is not responsible only to isolated sections as are members of the Country Party and members of the Labor Party. A great deal of time during this debate has been spent in referring to electricity stoppages, but in recent days the newspapers have been full of headlines concerning train stoppages, postal strikes, electricity strikes, and stoppages by employees of TransAustralia Airlines, and in this pre-

. vailing climate of industrial unrest it is no wonder that the Government has had to move to amend the Act in order to bring about justice and equality in the operation of essential services.

The Leader of the Opposition misled the House when he said earlier in the debate that no western nation had proclaimed such restrictive legislation. In answer to an interjection,

3488 Essential Services [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.'"

the honorable member for Glenhuntly pointed out that a number of Australian States have compatible legislation.

Mr. HOLDING.-But none is as restrictive as this Bill.

Mr. SCANLAN.-I take up the challenge issued by the Leader of the Opposition. The honorable member for Glenhuntly referred to the position that applied in New South Wales, alluded to the South Australian legislation, and touched on the Queensland Act. An evaluation of those three pieces of legislation operating in those States will show that they are compatible in many ways. One is far more severe than the Victorian Act. The New South Wales Act was introduced by a Labor Government and the Queensland legislation was enacted by the Country Party Government.

It is of interest to note how far the Queensland Government went when it introduced its legislation. The great industrial upheavals at Mount Isa led to the Queensland Government taking action in regard to essential services. The Government would have been been failing in its responsibilities if it had not done so. It first brought in legislation which created a state of emergency and, as the honorable member for Glenhuntly pointed out, the legislation was later systematized and codified. It set precedents which Queensland Governments will follow in conditions of emergency. The Queensland legislation of January, 1965, which proclaimed a state of emergency, restricted freedom to travel and the freedom to express opinion. In March, 1965, a special law was enacted to cope with intimidatory picketing. It forbade words, speeeches, or signs likely to induce persons not to work. The provisions relating to police moving people on were altered. I point out to the Leader of the Opposition, who challenged me on this point, that the Queensland powers are far more intimidatory, powerful, and restrictive than the Victorian powers.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-I seeln to remember the Chifley Government doing somethirig along these lines.

Mr. SCANLAN.-Yes, Mr. Chifley said "Bring in the troops", and he did not mean the troops of the Trades Hall Council. Every State has a sovereign power enabling it to declare a state of emergency. It is better for the industrial groups that the powers of the State to deal with industrial emergencies, such as have recently arisen in Victoria, should be codified in legislation. Then, when an emergency situation affecting essential services arises, unionists and the Trades Hall Council know exactly what confronts them. That is far better than an inconsistent situation in which a Government can push through any form of emergency power which cannot be anticipated by those concerned with the industrial situation.

The Government is acting wisely to protect the whole community, not just a section of it. Who suffers from industrial chaos which leads to the declaring of a state of emergency? It is wives and children, and they must be protected by the State. I should hate to think that, in a state of emergency, a Government would act in such a way that women and children would starve while a few unionists got all they wanted. The Government is interested in 3,500,000 citizens and in the 250,000 unionists who lost money as a result of the strike of certain officers of the State Electricity Commission. The Government wants to guarantee that Victoria . will not be returned to a state of anarchy, confusion and lawlessness. By interjection, members of the Opposition deny that the State has ever had anarchy. In 1923, during the police strike, there was anarchy, and blood in our streets. In any State, the Government must have the power to act, from time to time, to ensure good order in the community.

Mr. FENNESSy.-How would you know? You were not even born--

Essential Services [6 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill.

Mr. SCANLAN.-The observation of the honorable member for Brunswick East is made on the explicit understanding that one has to be present and to see something in order tl) know about it. He does not understand that the other members of this House can read. Speakers from the Government benches have mentioned the present situation of the unions in Victoria. It is generally admitted that there are two factions within the unions. One faction is opposed to the craft union structure which exists here, and every member of the Opposition would agree with that.

Mr. HOLDING.-No.

Mr. SCANLAN.-That section sees unions as instruments in the class struggle, opposed to arbitration and supporting direct negotiation.

Mr. TURNBuLL.-From what book did you get that?

Mr. SCANLAN.-I am referring to the Communist Theory and Practice of Trade Unionism. If the honorable member wishes, I will quote from it.

Mr. TURNBULL-Yes.

Mr. SCANLAN.-If the honorable member for Brunswick West reads this book, he may learn why he is being led by the nose in certain ways. The book, also titled The Trade Unions, is written by L. L. Sharkey. It outlines the policy of the left wing to manreuvre and manipulate unions. Against the group I have mentioned, there are those who might be called the industrially moderate groups who do not hold those views. I do not suggest that the Municipal Officers' Association is communist inspired, but I do contend that it closely follows what Sharkey advocates in his book about the way in which unions should work within the structure of the industrial organization of a State. It appears to me that the activities of the Municipal Officers' Association and the manner in which it has contrived these positions could almost have come out of this book at first hand.

Mr. HOLDING.-Are you saying that they are communists?

Mr. SCANLAN.-Not at all. I wish to repeat the words of Commissioner Neil which were mentioned by the Attorney-General in his excellent second-reading speech-

The response of the Municipal Officers' Association to the proposals of this Commission for settlement of this dispute with the State Electricity Commission of Victoria makes it clear that in this dispute the Association has set its face against arbitration. It is determined to pursue a course of direct action, and officers and members of the Association must accept the inevitable consequences. That statement bears out my suggestion that the basis of this industrial disruption closely follows the lines that are more traditionally associated with the left wing. Members of the Country Party are supporting the Opposition in opposing this measure. They will return to' their rural communities and tell one big story. What a story it w'ill be!

The Act contains inbuilt safeguards which are quite clear, and this Bill contains similar safeguards. I refer honorable members to sub-section (5) of proposed new section 3A, as set out in clause 3, which provides, that if, inter alia-

(b) a petition signed by not less than twenty members of the Legislative Assembly or by not less than thirty members of Parliament all or any of whom are members of the Legislative Council objecting to such proclamation and requesting that Parliament should be summoned is addressed to the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly or the President of the Legislative Council-

Parliament shall be summoned to meet as soon as practicable thereafter. I regard that as a democratic safeguard. Further, it will be noted from the Minister's explanatory second-reading speech and from an examination of the Bill and the principal Act that the provision relating to the conduct of the secret ballot in the case of a strike has been considerably modified. I suggest that members of the Opposition should be happy with this innovation.

Mr. WILKEs.-Give us your interpretation.


Mr. SCANLAN.-The Deputy Leader of the Opposition questioned whether this provision really is a safeguard and whether it is necessary. I believe it is a necessary provision because by this means the Government, before it takes action, will be able to gauge the support and enthusiasm which the union has for the dispute in which it is engaged. To this extent, it is a wise provision which should be welcomed, not rejected, by members of all parties.

Since 11 a.m., speaker after speaker on behalf of the Opposition has discussed the question of the Municipal Officers' Association and its relationship to the industrial stoppage. One member of the Country Party has also spoken. All I can say, having listened to their remarks, is that if members of this Opposition are the champions of the rights of the industrial unions and industrial groups, I feel sorry for them because if I were in a union involved in any of the current disputes I should certainly not like members of the Opposition to espouse my cause lest what I did and what I said should be made to appear to be misleading or repetitive.

I trust that a member of the Country Party will soon state that party's views and that the next speaker for the Opposition will mention an aspect that has so far in this debate not been touched on. I believe the Government can be proud of this Bill, and I suggest that upon further consideration the unions which are· interested in it will perceive that inbuilt safeguards and guarantees are provided for their protection. It is preferable to have legislation such as that which exists in Queensland, New South Wales, South Australia, Victoria and in the Federal sphere than unknown powers that can be invoked by a Government without precedent against any industrial group in a state of emergency. In a community where these powers are not expressed in legislation such as this, the unions cannot anticipate what action may be

taken by the Government. To this extent the unions should carefully consid~r their attitude to this measure and accept it as it is intended to operate.

I disagree with the suggestion that the conditions that apply in regard to this measure are the most restrictive in Australia. By no stretch of the imagination can it be said that they are as wide as the powers already held by the Commonwealth or by the State of Queensland.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).I have listened with amusement to some of the com'ments of the honorable member for Oakle1igh. I should like toO bring the debate back to the point at issue, which is the proposed amendment of the Essential Services Act. I do not desire to talk about what is happening in Queensland or in other States of the Commonwealth. It is enlightening to read the report 'Of the debate on the Essential Services Bill of 1948. It indicates that the measure was brought forward in a state of paniC by a Government supported by members .of the same sort as those who occupy the Government benches to-day.

The honorable member for Oakleigh spoke at some length about the attitude of the Country Party during the present debate and referred to its attitude in 1948. I do not think that ha1s any relevance to the Bill now before the House. The Leader of the Country Party has clearly stated his attitude towards this Bill, and the Opposition -is of the same frame of m-ind. In the opinion of members of the OpposiNon, the Government has shown no real reason why it is necessary for Parliament to make repressive amendments t'O an already repressive Act. The suggestions made by the Government and its supporters have been typical of their mentaMty, and reflect the view held by their counterparts in 1948, that communism was the caus'e of all the trouble. The Bill was brought in at that time because the Government


believed that anarchy was around the corner and that responsible unions intended to promote it and destroy a democratic Government. Is it possible that the present Government considers that the Municipal Officers' Association is responsible for promoting anarchy?

I shall mention som'e facts c.oncerning the Municipal Officers' Association which may not be well known to members on the Government side of the House, certainly not to the honorable member for Oakleigh. The Municipal Officers' Association has been a registered Federal organization for 47 years. It has an Australian membership of 19,000, and a Victorian membership of 13,000. The membership consists of senior and executive staffs of instrumentaliNes, semi-Government and local government organizations, including municipalities, shires, boroughs, waterworks trusts, sewerage trusts, the Melbourne City Council, the Melbourne and Metrop.olitan Tramways Board, the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, the Gas and Fuel Corporation, the Country Roads Board, and the Vict.orian Pipelines Commission. Included in the membership of the Municipal Officers' Ass.ociation are town clerks, city treasurers, engineers, surveyors, health inspectors and other executive officers of municipalities as well as executives ranging down to the supervisory level in Government instrumentalities.

It is laughable for the honorable member for Glenhuntly to canvass the point that a communistic appr.oach appears to be adopted by executives of the Municipal Officers' Association in respect of their attitude towards the Government and towards arbitration. If any honorable member knows of a town clerk who is communistically inclined, I should like to hear about it, because I do not believe that one could be found within the State. Seven thousand members of the Municipal Officers' Association are employed by the State Electricity Com'mission and

6,000 are employed by the other organizations to which I have referred. These are the people who ma~e up the Municipal Officers' Association and who have been maligned by the Government, by the Premier and by other honorable members who have spoken on behalf of the Government.

When the Essential Services Bill was debated in 1948 there were rows and rows of red-necked conservative opinion on the Government side of the House, just as there are to-day. A measure of this type which, by its direct application, gives absolute power to a Cabinet or to a Minister to attempt to intimidate union officials and prevent them from carrying out the wishes of their members is bound to fail. I can see no reason----apart from purely p.olitical ones-for the introduction of this Bill. Disputes will be aggravated by the frustration felt by participants at the actions of an apathetic Government. If a Government intends to g.overn, it can bring the disputing parties together at some form of round-table c.onference, and if it displays a willingness to assist a satisfaotory agreement can surely be reached.

The Essential Services Act has not been invoked. As we have heard to-day, it was proclaimed but was not used f.or the purpose of having people fined or impris.oned. If enact,ed, the proposed amendments will give greater absolute power to a Government which is already consciously aware of its dictatorial powers. If this Bill is approv'ed in this House and is passed in another place, the effect will be to make this repressive leg.islation a serious issue with many people for years to come.

The honorable member for Oakleigh said that other Governments could administer the Act in the futur,e. This c.ould lead to dangerous situations. Because of its numbers, the Government is able to f.orce the passage of the Bill and frustrate the Opposition's wi·sh to debate it. What may be the long-term effe·ct? A


'strong-minded Premier could force his will on a weak Cabinet and produce a set of circumstances leading to his acquiring dictatorial powers which could erode the whole structuve of a democratic State.

It is certa,in that if the Government were prepared to offer a sympathetic hearing of the matters which have arisen in this dispute there would be no question of a Bill such as this coming before the House. I am certain that some arrangement could be made. I have been concerned with unions for the whol,e of my working life ; I have been a shop steward and a union offioial, and in each position have acted in a voluntary capacity. It has been my experience that when industrial disputes arise shop stewa,rds and union officials display a keen sense of responsibility.

During the course of an industrial dispute, it would be the exception rather than the rule for a union official to say, "We shall goO out on strike" or, "We shall attempt to upset a Government decision at this point". Most shop stewavds are responsible persons who, though they may be somewhat inarticulate, are well able to repr'esent members in a factory or shop and alsoO to put forward a point of view to a meet-ing. If members on the Government side of the House think that a small dique at the head of a union can do as it wishes, they know nothing about unionism or members of unions. For the purpose of this debate, I assume the the Municipal Officers' Association is in the same category as any other union. As the Leader of the Opposition pointed out, the Association's claims have been in dispute for a long time. The dispute has not just suddenly arisen. Certainly it is not an attempt by the dictatorial head of an organization to stand over the Government. The Government has adopted an apathetic attitude, and has not attempted to do anything but push

through repressive legislation, for which it stands condemned.

Mr. Edmunds.

The Government is using the machinery of Parliament purely for political purposes as an opening to its campaign for the Western Province by-election. The purpose of this Bill is to incite industrial unrest and promote it through the press. This is evidenced by the way the Premier, in making comments for the press, called officers of the Municipal Officers' Association" brigands" and the honorable member for Glenhuntly referred to the whole union as a "scruffy bunch". I do not think the honorable member would be prepared to use such terms in front of the town clerk or treasurer of his municipality or any other responsible municipal official.

I believe that by this measure the fundamental principles of democracy are being pushed into the background. I am sure that this dispute, like any other deadlocked dispute, could be settled at a round table conference. If the Premier, the constitutional head of the State, called such a conference, I am certain that it would achieve results. Anyone who has been involved in such discussions behind closed doors appreciates that disputes can be settled in this way.

Mr. DIVERs.-The locomotive enginemen have just done that.

Mr. EDMUNDS.-The point of my colleague the honorable member for Footscray is well taken. Historians of the future, looking back with hindsight over a long period, will record that this legislation pushed through by the Bolte Administration is unjust, undemocratic and unfair, and certainly unnecessary. Cabinet has all the necessary authority to deal with the present situation without invoking even the Act which is already on the statute-book. The Opposition feels most strongly about the Government's action. Pushing such an undemocratic measure through Parliament reminds one of some aspects of eastern European politics which are abhorrent to all of us. This type of provocative action, which is designed to frighten trade union


leaders, as well as to incite industrial unrest for political purposes, will not at any time aid delicate negotiations.

The Government stands condemned in the eyes of the general public for its repressive and, for want of a better word, un-Australian attitude towards a particular section of very responsible persons who are members of the Municipal Officers' Association. The Association has informed me that the Melbourne and Metropolitan· Tramways Board and the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works have refused even to meet their officers to discuss disputes existing with those two instrumentalities. The attitude of those with whom the executive of an employee organization is negotiating also leads to complete frustration. For example, negotiations with the State Electricity Commission have broken down, and the executive of the organization concerned was so frustrated that it had no alternative but to demonstrate its strength. The State Electricity Commission stands condemned for its response.

The State Electricity Commission has imposed unnecessary hardship on the public by the strict power bans that it has enforced and policed, including the restriction of television and radio programmes. Newspapers and their associated television and radio stations have broken the restrictions because of the doubt whether they save very much power. The action of the State Electricity Commission points to its irresponsibility which makes any action by the union in support of its claims impose more hardship than is necessary.

The powers contained in the Essential Services Act are extensive. At page 648, volume 226 of Hansard, the Attorney-General of the· day, when highlighting the powers of clause 9 in the Bill then before the House, in the course of his secondreading speech, said-

Of course, in cer.tain circumstances it may be used to prevent people from coming into the city unduly during an emergency period.

I have no doubt that the Government of the day had in mind the occasion of the police strike in Melbourne when there was a lack of public control. Some provisions of the legislation possess very wide implications. For example, the definitions contained in paragraph (c) of section 2 of the Act leave a union official or even an employee practically speechless. The interpretation of "takes part" in relation to any strike or similar interruption includes-

Compelling counselling procuring or inducing or attempting to compel counsel procure or induce or do any act or thing which would be likely to compel procure or induce any person to strike or to lock-out within the meaning of this Act and, in the case of an officer of a trade union, also includes any act done by him before during or after such strike or interruption in furtherance thereof or of any further strike or interruption or in relation thereto other than an act in opposition to such strike or interruption or further strike or interruption.

If the Bill is passed and proclaimed and a dispute occurs, an employee will be left absolutely speechless and unable to communicate with anyone so far as the dispute is concerned. On a strict interpretation of the provision to which I adverted, if two persons were talking about a dispute in an hotel, a pimp could inform on them and the police could bring them to court.

This Bill is a most repressive piece of proposed. legislation to put through a democratic Parliament. For the Government to attempt to have such a measure passed by Parliament when the country is not at war-and there is no trace or sign of anarchy or communist activity for which the Government is so alert-is wasting the time of the legislature.

The other point I wish to discuss is the secret ballot, dealt with in clause 4. In his second-reading speech, the Attorney-General stated that the new provision would enable the Government to discover the real feelings of the strikers. It is ambiguous because it has been put that thE! people concerned would already be con' strike, whereas I


thought the purpose of the secret ballot was to find out whether or not they wanted to go on strike. It is a misinterpretation by the draftsman of the intention of the Government.

Mr. DIXoN.-The unions do not conduct a secret ballot to find out if their members want to go on strike.

Mr. DIVERS (to Mr. Dixon) .-The members themselves decide that at their meeting.

Mr. DIXON (to Mr. Divers) .-That is precisely the point.

Mr. EDMUNDS.---Clause 19 provides that a stipendiary magistrate may hear the charges and inflict a penalty of twelve months imprisonment or a fine of $1,000 on persons who are found guilty. The penalties are fairly restrictive.

The Attorney-General claimed that in the view of the Government's advisers the State has a duty to ensure industrial peace and to promote the welfare of every citizen in the State. In a democratic society, I see no reason to cavil with that opinion. However, if this legislation is proc'laimed at some time, the similarity between those words and the words of a dictator of years gone by who wrote Mein Kampf is striking. At page 387 of the English translation of Mein Kampf by Ralph Manhei'm, the following statement appears:-

The State no longer exists to serve men; men exist in order to worship a State authority which embraces even the most humble spirit, provided he is in any sense an official.

If the legislation is ever proclaimed, another point of similarity is this passage from the same book:-

State authority must provide for peace and order, and peace and order in turn must conversely make possible the existence of State authority.

This book was written in 1924, and the similarity between the statements of the Attorney-General and those in Mein Kampf is not lost on the Opposition, and is certainly not lost on those who are taking an active interest in the Government's action of pushing through this legislation.

If the Government is serious in its supposed attitude of wishing to provide for and to attempt to cover all fundamentals in case of industrial unrest, and in this particular instance is concerned that 500,000 people might lose a day's wages, it should act in a m·ore responsible manner. In my opinion, it should make a serious attempt to bring the disputing parties together to discover some common ground on which they can iron out their difficulties. I have been assured by members of the Municipal Officers' Association that it is difficult to communicate with anybody within the Government structure.

If the Government is seriously considering the needs and the welfare of the people in general, it will heed the words of the Opposition in respect of this repressive legislation and will withdraw the amendments because they are a waste of Parliament's time. Moreover the Opposition would commend the Government for taking that action. The Opposition wishes to have no part in passing such repressive legislatian.

Mr. DIXON (St. Kilda).-If, as the hanoraJble member far Maanee Pands states, the afficers of the Municipal Officers' Assaciation find it difficult to communicate with Government Departments, one wauld have thaught that the proper recaurse wauld be to' the Conciliatian and Arbitration Commissian. After listening to' almast the whale of this debate, I have yet to' be canvinced that the responsible body has in fact exhausted all the praper channels to' approach the Conciliation and Arbitration Cammissian.

This debate has given all hanarable members three possible alternatives. The first, which I regard as an extreme course, is the one presented by the Cauntry Party; namely, to' invake the existing Act, which seems to suffer from certain inadequacies. The first and mast important inadequacy is that it is doubtful whether the Essential Services Act can in fact be invaked to deal with this specific situatian. Secandly, the Premier's statement in this Hause that he wauld nat proclaim


the Act without consulting the responsible officers of the Melbourne Trades Hall Council is evidence that at this time the honorable gentleman does not in fact intend to invoke this legislation.

The paradox of the point of view which has been presented by the Country Party is that it intends to vote with the Opposition, which is putting forward a completely opposite view. At least, this opposite view is unambiguous because the Opposition clearly states that this amending Bill should be withdrawn and that the principal Act should be repealed. The Country Party ought to realize that, in voting with the Opposition, it is in fact supporting the contention that the claims of the Municipal Officers' Association ought to be successful. This success would mean a $16,000,000 addition to the charges of the State Electricity Com'mission, which would mean increased tariffs.

Therefore, there is the paradoxical situation of an irresponsible Country Party suggesting that the Essential Services Act ought to be invoked. I point out, first, that it is not certain whether its provisions can be invoked; secondly, that the present situation would not warrant those provisions being invoked; and, thirdly, that by supporting the Opposition, members of the Country Party are prepared, if the Opposition's claims were fulfilled, to agree to a total sum of $16,000,000 being added to the State Electricity Commission bill, and they would have to tell their country constituents that they voted for what in fact amounted to increased tariffs.

The second alternative is the proposition of the Opposition that this Bill should be thrown out and the principal Act repealed. I believe this suggestion is equally unable to be substantiated even by the bulk of people who genuinely support the Australian Labor Party. There has been no examination of the current situation as a result of which this amending Bill has been brought forward by the Government.

What has been the situation and what are the possible repercussions in Victoria in relation to the drought, the water supply, and the unrest in some quarters that has been caused by the st.amps tax? It has been much vaunted in this House and elsewhere that because of the lack of action by the Government, a serious state of unrest could exist in Victoria and almost certainly would exist.

I wish to make my own position quite clear. I completely support the Government's stamps tax legislation, the stand of the Government in relation to drought relief, and the plans that have been put into operation concerning Melbourne's water supply. It has been canvassed in this State that those situations are bringing about a state of industrial unrest. I suggest that if there are situations which are being forecast with such urgency and by so many people, this Government owes it to the people of Victoria to prepare itself if those situations do arise.

I suggest that the events of the past few weeks have shown that this is indeed the precise moment when this Government should act to amend the Essential Services Act to make it workable and-a point which has been completely ignored by the Opposition-to make it less severe. It has been suggested that, by amending this legislation, the Government is making the Act more severe. I hope to be able to prove that the proposed amendments will make the principal Act more workable and less severe.

Mr. DfVERs.-Even though it means wage injustice?

Mr. DIXON.-The honorable member for Footscray made almost the same point to the Premier; but the Premier completely answered him by saying that, according to the honorable member, wage injustice is rectified by an across-the-board increase to everyone. The Government believes that should not be the position. In dealing with the Municipal Officers'


Association, the Conciliation Comm!ssioner implied that certain wage Increases were justified. But the Association said, "We are not prepared to accept anything but an across-t~eboard decision. Take it or leave It; $16,000,000, or strike ".

One of the most interesting aspects of the case is that members of the Opposition have aligned themselves, not with the Municipal Officers' Association, but with a small select segment of that Association. Further, they have not been prepared to have a good look at the thoughts between the lines of Mr. Jordan's statement. I repeat what was said by the honorable member for Glenhuntly, by quoting the remarks of Mr. Jordan, secretary of the Trades Hall C.oun c:il, as reported in the Sun News-pzctonal of Saturday, 2nd March. The report states-

The secretary of the Trades Hall Council, Mr. M. C. Jordan, said last night the Government was" being baited" into using the Act by "Communist influences". "We h<;>p~ the Government will see through thIS he said. One of the interesting aspects is that the Government is not being baited into using this Act, but is making the Act more workable and less severe.

Mr. Jordan said he hoped the Government would give very careful consideration before using the Essential Services Act.

"The Government should not be bait~d by Communist influences," Mr. Jordan saId.

"Some unions have obviously shown a blatant disregard of the rules and procedures of the trade union movement." This amending Bill will make it less easy for some unions who are influenced by "communist influences" -to use the words of Mr. Jordan"to show blatant disregard of the rules of the trade union movement". By taking their present stand, members of the Opposition have aligned themselves not with Mr. Jordan, the Trades Hail Council, the Australian Council of Trade Unions, or the Municipal Officers' Association, but with those people who are controlling the way in which this dispute is being operated. I shall examine the Municipal Officers' Association.

Mr. Dixon.

Mr. FENNEssy.----Complete your statement.

Mr. DIXON.-I have completed it. Mr. WILKEs.-Smear tactics; that

is typical of you. Mr. DIXON.-It is nothing like the

tactics of some people who like to interpret fact as smear, ~nd then .say the so-called smearer IS smearmg. That is no reflection on those particular people-not much! The Municipal Officers' Association is not affiliated with the Melbourne Trades Hall Council or the Australian Council of Trade Unions. It is the federal executive of that body that is making the decision. A lot was said by the honorable member for Moonee Ponds about the use of secret ballots, and he believes that secret ballots ought to be used before strike action is taken and not afterwards. I wonder what would happen in the Municipal Officers' Association if the secret ballot had been taken before the strike had come into being?

Mr. DI'VERs.-Why? Mr. DIXON.-Strike action was

taken because of the decision of the federal executive.

Mr. DIVERs.-On behalf of its members.

Mr. DIXON.-Precisely, and without knowing whether or not the members supported it. One of the good things about the Melbourne Trades Hall Council is that it elects its secretary and reserves the right, as in any democratic union, to hire or fire by vote. But where did the secretary of the State Electricity Commission's Officers' Branch of the Municipal Officers' Assoeiation come from? He was re-appointed by the federal executive, and he stands by himself. He is a paid officer without being subject to the officers of the Association, and in that sense he has a great deal more freedom; he can work in the way he believes the Association should operate, and not necessarily in the way the members of that Association would wish. He is not responsible to the members by way of an annual democratic vote.


Mr. TURNBuLL.-Have you read the Act? All officers of the unions have to be elected by secret ballot.

Mr. DIXON.-That is how far out is the honorable member for Brunswick West.

Mr. TURNBuLL.-Read the Act, you billy goat.

Mr. DIXON.-One ought really to examine the position in full, taking into consideration the whole context of the amending Bill and the Act be'cause in some ways this debate has deteriorated to the stage where it is coOncerned only with this one dispute, and in my view this should not be the case. However, I am happy to examine this particular dispute because the complete weight of the evidence is on the side of the Government, which is upholding the State Electricity CoOmmission and conciliatioOn and arbitratioOn in this community. Let us examine the comments by the Commissioner, Mr. Neil, and the relevant comments by the representative of the Municipal Officers' Association. I shall quote first what Mr. Commissioner Neil said when speaking to Mr. Donnar on 28th February, 1968-

Mr. Donnar, I am obliged to say that I see no justification whatever for this decision to hold a 24-hour stoppage. Having regard to what has gone before and to the disruption it is bound to cause, I can only describe it as an irresponsible decision which is completely without merit.

This is a key point that members of the Opposition have deliberately overlooked.

In my view it is not correct to say that all avenues for negotiation for settlement of the claims of the association have been exhausted. Indeed the true position is quite the reverse. Following the recent 24-hour stoppage I made an appeal to the State Electricity Commission of Victoria to reexamine completely their position to see how far they could go toward meeting the salary claims. At the same time I sought to persuade the Municipal Officers' Association, and indeed other associations involved to move from their course of direct action and to seek a settlement of their claims by negotiation . . .

That is not even conciliation. That is a point which ought to be made in clarification because some honorable metnbers have neglected it. The Opposition has consistently asserted that the State Electricity Commission has refused concHiation. Conciliation is recourse to the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission and that involves a third party. That is precisely the course the Government is advocating. The quotation continues--

. ; . . . in an atmosphere that would offer some promise of a favourable outcome.

It is true that the associations did not at that stage proceed with proposals for further stoppages but their public announcements m~de it clear that the threat was not wlthdrawn but merely held in abeyance. Neverthel~ss" whe':l ~he parties again came before thls Commlsslon the representatives of the State Electricity Commission refrained from referring to the ultimatum with which they were still faced.

Mr. WILKEs.-What are you quoting from.

Mr. DIXON.-I am quoting from the transcript of proceedings before the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission on 28th February, 1968, at 10.10 a.m., the Commissioner being Mr. H. G. Neil. The point I was endeavouring to make is clarified by this sentence-

While they continued to maintain that they could see no justification for general salary increases they did extend the area !n which they were prepared to grant some mcreas.e and also m.ad~ proposals designed to B:SSlSt the aSS~Clatlon to expedite the heanng of any clalm they decided to lodge with this Commission.

In other words, the State Electricity Commission, which has been held up as the big, bad devil that would not agree, that would not negotiate and that was holding up the big fat fist and saying " no deal", was prepared to negotiate, to agree and to offer salary increases, all of which were refused and repudiated. Even the offer to bring about quick negotiations whereby salary claims could be examined in full was repudiated by the ofllcers of the Municipal


Officers' Association. I have already expla'ined how some officers retain their positions. Mr. Neil continued-

Not only has the Municipal Officers' Association refrained from adopting this course but at its highest level-that is, at its Federal executive level-it has taken decisions which involve strike action and which therefore appeared to be designed to prevent effectively further negotiations or conciliation. In other words, they have ignored my plea and have slammed the gate shut.

The Commissioner was not content with only having this hearing because after it had concluded he adjourned and had private talks w·ith each party. He returned at 4.53 p.m. and presented the seven point proposal which was referred to by the honorabJe member for Geelong. I believe that was a reasonable proposal and if it is the wish of the House I shall read the seven points. They are-

1. The Municipal Officers' Association should not proceed with the proposed stoppage, and any proposal for future stoppages on this issue should be withdrawn.

2. The Municipal Officers' Association should file an application with this Commission for a variation of the Award to provide for general salary increases, there being no claim at present before this Commission for determination.

3. Upon the filing of the application, the Commission to list the matter for early hearing and invite the Municipal Officers' Association to submit a short case for an interim increase in salaries.

4. After hearing the State Electricity Commission in reply, the Commission to determine whether a case has been made out for an interim increase and, if so, the extent of such increase.

5. The parties to confer on steps to be taken and procedure to be adopted in the presentation of the full case for salary increases, with a view to expediting finalization of the proceedings.

6. The parties to be free to argue the case on whatever grounds they consider appropriate.

7. Salaries determined by the Commission in final settlement of the claim to be adjusted retrospectively to the date of operation of the interim increase. What could be fairer than that? There is one important point which I wish to clarify and which I endeavoured to make at the beginning of my speech. I consider that the amendments proposed in this Bill are less severe than the provisions of

Mr. Dixon.

the original Act. The first po.int which ought to be made is that the Essential Services Act requires that a state of emergency shall exist. The amending Bill requires a proclamation as to the security or welfare of the State, which is a different thing from a state of emergency. That is the important point.

In my view, the two important amendments proposed by the Government will have to be incorporated in the principal Act if it is to be carried out, or indeed could be carried out. Under the existing Act if a state of emergency is declared, which members of the Country Party apparently with tongue in cheek, required, then section 5 can be brought into being. Section 5 details powers which may be exercised by the Minister; subsections (2) and (3) provide-

(2) The Minister may employ at not less than award rates such persons in such numbers and upon such terms as appear to him to be necessary for carrying into effect of the powers referred to in the last preceding sub-section.

(3) Without limiting the generality of the foregOing provisions of this section the Minister may-

(a) direct what services shall be maintainedand upon what terms and conditions they shall operate;

(b)

(c)

(d)

(e)

direct persons and bodies to operate and maintain services to the extent and upon the terms specified in the direction;

direct at what times 'and places and upon what terms and conditions and in what manner services may be used or availed of;

prohibit the operation or use of services ,except, if so specified in the prohibition, with the consent of the Minister;

requisition the use of property of any kind which is used or may be used for or in connexion with the operation or maintenance of any essential service;

(f) provide for or control, by direction prohibition or requisition, the operation use, disposal distribution storage repair upkeep and maintenance of any property or commodity used or which may be used for or in connexion with any essential service;


(g) provide, by direction prohibition or requisition, for any matter or thing incidental to the carrying into effect of the powers referred to in this section.

A study of section 5 reveals that it cannot be implemented unless a state of emergency is declared. If a proclamation concerning the security or welfare of the State is made, the provisions which could be applied are those set out in the Bill, and they are less severe than those in the principal Act.

The point made by the Premier should not be ignored. A series of stoppages extending over a long period of rime can be equa'lly damagmg, although perhaps not so noticeable to the community, as a continuous strike. It is equally significant that the penalties which may be imposed by the Commonwealth Industrial Court on unions acting in defiance of the Conciliation and A:phitration Com'mission are limited to $1,000 a day. It would be relatively easy for a union which intended disruption to initiate single-day strikes over a long period. There should be, in the background, some further power which could be i'mplemented to safeguard the interests of the people of Victoria.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East) .--1 have listened to this debate for some hours and now there is very little time in which to reply to the accusations against the Country Party. The Government has completely failed to establish any degree of urgency for this measure. It is forcing the Bill through the House to-day without giving members the opportunity to study the import of its provisions. Yet there has been criticism of the Country Party because not many of its members have spoken during the debate. It is most unusual for the Government to chide Country Party members for not speaking during the debate; usually, it is the other way around. At long last, the honorable member for St. Kilda has apparently recognized the fact that the Country Party might vote against the Government for reasons entirely different from those which prompt

the Opposition. In the future, the Liberal Party might remember that during the election campaigns when they quote the number of times during a session when the Country Party has voted with the Opposition.

The arguments put forward by the Government cannot be accepted. If the Government believes that a state of emergency exists, it can use the ample powers in the present legisla~ion .. Th~re is no state of emergency In VIctOrIa. to-day. I sincerely hope, and believe, that the officers of the Municipal Officers' Association will realize that they are treading on dangerous ground and will do the right thing by their members and the com'munity in general by adopting the normal, lawful processes available to them in their attempt to achieve the objectives of their members.

The Government has not established any degree of urgency for this Bill. It could have given honorable memb~r.s ample time to consider its proVISIOns. If the Governments had made out a case for urgent consideration there might have been some reaso~ for its action.

I firmly support the views expressed by ~he Leader of the Country Party. To Illustrate how far off the beam are the arguments advanced by Government members, I point out that they quoted a speech he allegedly made on the Essential Services Bill in 1948 when, in fact, the speech was made nine months before the Bill was introduced into the House. The Government is guilty of misrepresentation and of telling untruths about the actions of the Country Party. The Country Party opposes the measure, and trusts that the Parliament will deal with it in the way it deserves.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).-If a stranger entered this Chamber now, he would think that Victoria was under seige and believe that the barricades were going up because a revolution was about to start. I have never heard anything so ridiculous as what the Government has put to-day as a matter of urgency. If the matter is so urgent, why was a Bill not brought in after the first 24-hour stoppage in the


State Electricity Commission. Victoria has had other industrial stoppages and strikes but, if the panic the Government has shown when a stoppage has oc-curred is any indication, the Government would not know how to handle a strike.

The Labor Party has no time to answer in detail everything put by the various Government speakers. Apparently the honorable member for Geelong believes tha't men who work for Government instrumentalities should not be allowed to strike because, if they did, they would be striking against the community. What redress is available to them for the rectifica tion of their wrongs? Men working for private enterprise, who do not get a fair go, can withdraw their labour. Why should men who work for Government instrumentalities not have the same right?

Where was the Minister for Fuel and Power to-day? Is not this whole matter one so vital to him that he should have been in the House? The honorable member for Oakle'igh reminded me of the head prefect at S't. Trinians trying to obtain a favour from her head mistress. What has the honorable member for Morwell to say about the aspersions cast against 7,000 of his constituents and their being classed as communists.

The situation before the House is the most ridiculous ever known. There is no emergency, yet the Government is forcing this Bill through the House to-day. The bottom fell out of the Government's case half way through the debate. The Premier went to water and made the most moderate speech I have ever heard in this House. He completely pulled the rug from under the AttorneyGeneral, and left him for dea'd. The Premier said, "Let's all be friends, and I'll run 'Over and see Mick Jordan. I never intended to go on with this." What the honorable gentleman intended to do was to assure the people that this was a most active Government and, prior to the by-election for the Western Province, to indicate to the people that

Mr. Floyd.

the Government was not going to tolerate any tommy rot from the workers. When the by-election for Western Province is over--

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! In accordance with the wish of the House, I must say that the time allowed for the consideration of this Bill up to and including the second-reading stage has expired. The question is-

That this Bill be now read a second time. The House divided on the motion

(the Hon. Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 40 Noes 23


AYES.


(BaVlaarat North) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. McKellar Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid

Mr. Rossiter Mr. Rylah Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith




(Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

(Box Hill) Tellers: Mr. Reid Mr. Jona

(Dandencmg) Mr. Templeton.

NOES.

Mr. Clarey Mr. Divers Mr. Edmunds Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mr. Fennessy Mr. Floyd Mr. Holding Dr. Jenkins Mr. Lovegrove Mr. McDonald

Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Stoneham Mr. Sutton Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise Mr. Turnbull Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

(Rodney) Tellers: Mr. Moss Mr. Ginifer Mr. Ring Mr. Mutton.

The Bill was read a second time.


The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-The question is-

That the Bill be committed. The House divided on the question

(the Hon. Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 40 Noes 24

Majority for the question 16

AVES.


(BaZlaarat North) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. McKellar Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid


(BeUarine) Mr. Smith



(Cau1Jfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.


(Dandenong) Mr. Templeton.

NOES.


Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Stirling Mr. Stoneham


Mr. Sutton Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise Mr. Turnbull Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.


The House went into Committee for the consideration of this Bill.

Clause 1 (Short title) . The Committee divided on the

clause (Mr. L. S. Reid in the chai~)-Ayes 39 Noes 24

for Majority clause

Session 1968.-131

the 15

AVES.


(Bal'laarat No'rth) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald .

(Glen Iris) Mr. McKellar Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty



(Warmambool) Mr. Stephen . Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Mr. Tanner

( Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Templeton Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Reese Mr. Reid

Mr. Tanner (Morwell)

(Booc Hill) Mr. Trethewe~.

NOES.

Mr. Divers Mr. Edmunds Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mr. Fennessy Mr. Floyd Mr. Ginifer . Mr. Holding Dr. Jenkins Mr. Lovegrove Mr. McDoDlald

(Rodney) Mr. Moss Mr. Mutton·

Mr. Ring Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Stirling· Mr. Stoneham Mr. Sutton Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise' Mr. Turnbull Mr. Wilkes Mr~ Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Clarey Mr. Whiting.

Clause 2 (Interpretation).

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) .-:-At this stage, I have the right to discuss clause 2~' and also to speak generally on the measure. On this occasion' I can hardly, as I often do, thank the Opposition and the Country Party for their co-operation, but at . least I can say that there has been a very full debate on the Bill. The definition of "trade union" in clause 2 is sufficiently wide in this context to cover the Municipal Officers' Association, but as there has been a lot of discussion about the Association I want to clarify one point. The association of that organization with the. recent troubles .is· due to the fact that some years ago the State Electricity Commission

3502 , ·ess.ential. Services [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

Officers Association elected to become part. of the Municipal Officers' Associatio~ for ,the express purpose of bringing. itself. within the ambit of Federal Arbitration Commission awards~' It is significant that, ,having done .. this,. the Municipal . Officers' Association is . ;now at loggerheads with the particular Conciliation' Commissioner conc~rned and. is claiming ,the right to take direct action as against using the forum which it chose some years ago.

There has been a . .lot ofmisunderstanding) and, I believe~ m-isrepresentation at times, concerning, general principles of the Act, and its actual cont'ext. ,Broadly speaking, the Bill adds . to. the : existing Essential Services Act power to make a proclamation as to security or welfare. The reasons for this are specifically set out in clause, 3, and the object is to ensure public, security and welfare. I 'want to make. it cleat that the making of such a proclamation is a separate action from making a proclamation l)nder'. the existing Act, which relates,'. to a state of emergency. :TwQ :forms of proclamation can be made, and' they are separa t.e ". pieces . of . machinery. I think' 'iris . necessary' to make· this point because there has been so 'much misrepresentation by. the Opposition and the Country Party on this aspect.

The' secret ballot provisions of the e'xisting legislation 'are being 'preserved, but 'modified to the, extent that no longer will they, contain a

. penalty' for 'a union. which strikes in . defiance of a ,secret.- ballot. The reason for ,this is· that, since, ,l~48, tJ;w various legislatiye provisions and amendments to. the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Act have greatly extended, the power of the Commonwealth tribunals in regard to secret ballots.

, Finally, I want-to, make it dear that under the' legislation the taking of a secret ballot was never a condition precedent to, the proclamatiori of a state of emergency., These two proyisions are separate; parts of the

Mr. G. O. Reid.

legislation. Similarly, under the Bill the taking. of a secret ballot is not a condition precedent to the making of a proclamation as to security or welfare. The provisions concerning the taking of a secret ballot are preserved because, from time to time, it may be necessary for the Government to have a secret ballot taken to determine the will of a particular union in regard to a particular strike.

I have endeavoured to make these propositions clear because they are essential parts of the Bill, which add to existing legislation the ability to make proclamations as to security or welfare, while preserving the power to make proclamations of a state of emergency, and preserve with some modifications the ability to order a SEcret ballot. In addition to the definitions incorporated in clause 2, a later clause of the Bill provides for certain procedural requirements in regard to advertisements. I have taken the opportunity of explaining these points to the Committee because, during the debate, there has been a great tendency to drift away from the main provisions of the measure.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition).-Mr. Chairman, in speaking to clause 2--

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. L. S. Reid). -Order! The time allotted for the Committee stage of the Bill has expired .

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-Mr. Chairman, on a point of order.

The CHAIRMAN.-There can be no debate. Therefore, I shall put the question that clause 2 and the remaining clauses stand part of the

, Bill.

Mr. HOLDING.-Mr. Chairman, are you not prepared to hear a point of order?

Essential Services [6 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) 'Bill. 3503

The CHAIRMAN .-1 shall hear the Leader of the Opposition on the point of order.

Mr. HOLDING.-Has the situation been reached where this 36 per cent. Government has organized the procedures so that there shall be no debate upon the legal implications of clauses 3, and 4 and other relevant clauses of the Bill?

Mr. RAFFERTY.-The House decided it.

Mr. HOLDING (to Mr. Rafferty). -Your 36 per cent. Government decided it.

The CHAIRMAN.-Order! I cannot allow any further debate on this Bill. The precedent has been set and appears in Hansard of 2nd December, 1936, Vol. 200, at page 3403. The time allotted for the consideration of the Committee stage of the Bill has expired, and the question therefore is~

That clause 2 and the remaining clauses stand part of the Bill.

The House divided on the question (Mr. L. S. Reid in the chair)-

Ayes 39 Noes 24

Majority for the question 15

AyES.


(Ballaarat NortJh) Mrs. Goble Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese,



(Warmambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Mr. Tanner


( Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Templeton Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.'

Mr. Reid Tellers: (Box Hill) Mr. Hayes

Mr. Rossiter Mr. McKellar.

NOES.


(Gippsland East) Mr. Fennessy . Mr. Floyd Mr. Ginifer Mr. Holding Dr. Jenkins Mr. Lovegrove Mr. McDonald

(Rodney) Mr. Moss

Mr. Mutton Mr. Ring Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Stirling Mr. Stoneham Mr. Sutton Mr. Turnbull Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise.

The Bill was reported to the House without amendment, and the report was adopted.

Mr. G. O. REID (AttorneyGeneral) .--1 move-

That this Bill be now read a third time.

Mr., HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-Because the procedures adopted by the Government prevented any effective discussion by members of the Opposition during the Comm.ittee stage,' it is necessary for me at this stage to answer some of the points made by Government spokesmen in the course of the debate.

The central point made by the members of the Opposition was never answered. Before any Government introduces legislation of this kind, there should be not merely a situation of one or two industrial stoppages but an abnormal situation, and even then legislation with as farreaching implications ,as this Bill would not be justified. None of the evidence presented by the Opposition relating to the details of the situation, to what has occurred in the stoppages and to the history of the organization primarily involved, the Municipal Officers' Association, w'as contradicted by any Government member. It was suggested that a reasonable recommendation was made by the Conciliation Commissioner concerned.

I would be one of the fewmembers of this House who has appeared before that gentleman, and, as Conciliation Commissioners go, he is reasonable and able. But every day

3504 Essential Services -[ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

of the week Conciliation Commissioners make recommendations to employer and -employee organizations, some of which are acted upon and some of which are not acted upon. -It may be thought that, on this occasion, the union or the State Electricity Commiss'ion would have been well advised to act upon his recommendations, but is it seriously suggested that, because one union on one occasion-that is all that has occurred-rejected the recommendation of the Conciliation Commissioner, a -situation is created which justifies the introduction of legislation of this kind? Such a proposition is clearly absurd.

None of the basic propositions put forward by members of the Opposition, which I do not propose to reiterate, has been even' canvassed or answered by the Government. However, I shall refer to one issue. When dealing with an issue of this kind and of such gravity, honorable members have a high responsibility. We are all used to the traditional practice which often occurs in this House of the Government being in trouble and reaching into the bag of smear~, prepared to throw them over anyone who comes within range. The Premier did not adopt this practice ; he is politician·eno:ugh to understand the political purpose of this exercise.

However, the honorable member for St. Kilda, the honorable member for Oakleigh and the honorable member for Glenhuntly, under Parliamentary privilege, were all prepared by innuendo and by suggestion, toimply that the leaders and the officers of the Municipal Officers' Association, in this industrial dispute were either communists or' influenced by communist doctrine. That is a grave allegation. I have discussed the merits of this dispute with the officers of the Municipal Officers' Association and I believe that for honorable members to rise in this House and smear those men as c-ommunists is a .vile calumny and reflects on them and their' integrity' as members of this Parliament. .

Mr. Holding.

There are two honorable members on the Government side of the Chamber who know the history of the Municipal Officers' Association and its attitude to industrial disputes. The Minister for Fuel and Power and the honorable member for Morwell -who represents 90 per cent. of the men involved in this dispute-have dealt with these men day by day. Let us have it out here and now. Do the Minister for Fuel and Power and the honorable member for Morwell agree with the filthy and vile suggestions' that have been made by their political colleagues? I challenge those honorable members here and now in the short space of time that is remaining for this debate to speak, because they have sat remarkably silent until now. The constituents of the honorable member for Morwell have been smeared up hill and down dale by his political colleagues, and he has a duty to answer for them. The Minister for Fuel and Power has dealt with these men for years. A period of ten minutes remains for the completion of this debate. I am prepared to yield my Hme to those honorable members so that they may say in this Parliament whether they agree with the filthy political accusations made by their colleagues. Let them have the courage to rise and say "yea" or " nay".

Mr. TREWIN (Benalla).-I did not intend to take part in this debate, but I have followed it throughout and - have had the opportunity of studying the Ministers at the table. As a result, I have come to the conclusion that honorable members have been treated to an exhibition of insincerity. I feel sure that their colleagues in other Parliaments may wonder whether members of the Government are sincere in introducing this Bill and why the issue has related to certain industrial groups. This seems to have been the centre of the debate. I remind the AttorneyGeneral and -Government supporters generally that at one stage some twenty years ago there was an opportunity for them to support the now


Deputy Prime Minister in running to earth the people they now say they are endeavouring to get at, namely, communists and drive them out of existence. Behind the talking and the thinking of Government supporters during this debate has been the fact that the organization to which reference has been made has been communist inspired., I do not believe the Government has treated members of Parliament in a correct fashion to-day. Members of the Country Party were given very little time in which to prepare contributions to the debate. In fact, we had only one minute's notice.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine).We were hoping that a member of the Government Party would seek the call and answer the allegations made by the the Leader of the Opposition. Although I give the Government credit for allowing this debate to continue to-day, I think its motivation must be suspect in view of the anxiety it has portrayed to win the by-election for the Western Province. When one sees the unfortunate manner in which the Attorney-General introduced this Bill and the way in which he has been discarded without defence by his colleagues in the Government, one gains the impression that the Government is ashamed of the Bill.

In the dying stages of the debate a challenge was issued by the Leader of the Opposition to the spokesman for the Government-the "eternal general ".

Mr. G. O. REID._u Eternal" means immortality.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-UEternal" connotes some suggestion of morality, but I am afraid I cannot confer that upon the gentleman concerned. In the dying hours of the debate, the Leader of the Opposition threw out a considered challenge to the Government in the person of the AttorneyGeneral who had introduced the Bill into the House.

Mr. G. O. REID.-He did not deliver it to me in p'erson.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-He did. Despite the fact that this challenge was delivered to the Attorney-General, the honorable gentleman, who has been made the stooge for the Government in this debate, is too cowardly, too discreet, or too ignorant to accept it.

Mr. G. O. REID.-I did not get the challenge.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-The honorable gentleman did receive it. What was the nature of the challenge? It was that three personalities were concerned in this debate-first, the Premier who was most apologetic for the legislation; secondly, the Attorney-General who has refused to speak, despite the goadings of the Leader of the OppOSition.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The Leader of the Opposition objected to my speaking at an earlier stage.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-Why do you not speak now?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! 'The honorable member for Sunshine should address the Chair and not the AttorneyGeneral.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I agree with you, Mr. Speaker, and in further support of your ruling I suggest that nobody should address him in view of the dubious legal, interpretations that are being placed on the legislation before the House. The third leg of the treble consists of the Minister for Fuel and Power, who is the Minister responsible for the industrial dispute, and the Minister of Labour and Industry, both of whom have chosen, with some deliberation, to abstain from participating in the debate.,

Mr. FLOYD.-And the member for Morwell.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I suppose he is concerned about the voles he may not get in a couple of years' time. The badge of courage is shown by· a Government, or a group of men who get behind a proposition and unit~dly back it· to a man. The badge of

3506 Essential Services [ASSEMBL Y.] (Amendment) Bill.

cowardice, the badge of doubt and the badge of indecision, and, if I may go further, the badge of unbelief and disbelief in their own philsophy is displayed by the attitude of men who have been as reluctant as Government supporters have tonight to back a proposition that has been in this House all day. Government supporters thought that, by giving members of the Opposition time in which to debate this Bill, members of the Opposition would be the losers in the debate. Who are the losers? They are the Government supporters who proved themselves too cowardly-I repeat the chargetoo unconvinced, too ignorant, and, if I may add one more mild rebuke to them, too modest to back the speech made by the Attorney-General. I repeat the accusations I made earlier about his speech. It was anaemic, puerile and lily-livered. It was the poorest argument ever put in an industrial debate in this House in the past 50 years. If the political ancestors of members of the Liberal Party could have heard the arguments put up by their inheritors, but not for the purpose of attacking the trade union movement, they would be dismayed. Government supporters are not game to attack the trade union movement, which will break this law, and will break it with my personal approval and participation.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member should not pursue that Hne.

Mr. HOLDING.-We will help him. Mr. LOVEGROVE. - The trade

union movement will defy the Government which is too occupied with political motivation in the Western Province to be worried about this law. The Government will not pursue this law and will leave the Attorney-General high and dry, in the same way as the Premier left him to-night. This measure is really related to the by-election to be held in the Western Province. I hope that when Government members are campaigning in that province they will speak about

gas prices, and the inadequacies of education, hospital facilities, roads, sewerage, housing, water supply and taxation.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-In line with the decision of the House, the time allotted for the consideration of the final stages of the Bill has expired.


Ayes 41 Noes 24


AYES.


(Ballaarat North) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Loxton Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Sir William McDonald Mr. McKellar Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Porter Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid



( Warrnambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Mr. Tanner


(Caulfield) Mr. Taylor Mr. Trethewey Mr. Vale Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.


(Dandenong) Mr. Templeton.

NOES.



Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Stirling Mr. Stoneham Mr. Sutton Mr. Trewin Mr. Trezise Mr. Turnbull Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.


The Bill was read a third time.


ADJOURNMENT. EDUCATION DEPARTMENT: ASSISTANCE

TO FAMILIES: HORSHAM HIGH SCHOOL: REDCLIFFS HIGH SCHOOLANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE -HOUSING COMMISSION: INDUSTRIALIZED HOUSES-TRAFFIC COMMISSION: MOVEMENT OF VEHICLES AT LIGHT-CONTROLLED INTERSECTIONS.


That the House, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday next, at half-past Three o'clock.

The motion was agreed to. Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).-

I move-That the House do now adjourn. Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).-I

wish to direct the attention of the Minister of Labour and Industrywho normally handles in this House matters relating to education on behalf of the Minister of Educationto an article which appeared on the front page of to-night's Herald. It relates the story of a family of eight children who live in my electorate and who have a problem in maintaining themselves on the father's income and coping with the cost of education. The article indicates that the father's income is just sufficient to debar this family from receiving any assistance by means of an allowance paid by the Department because of the form of means test which is used by the Department to determine whether a family should be assisted.

I beg the Minister, not only on behalf of this particular family but also on behalf of all families in similar circumstances throughout Victoria, whose income is only $1 or $2 above the amount permissible under the means test to which I referred, to ask the Minister of Education to discuss with the Treasurer the possibility of the Government deducting from the family'S income the amount ·paid in rent. In this case the family is residing in a Housing Commission home for which the rent is $11 a

week and the cost of educating the children is some $8 a week. The total expenditure on these two items alone is $19 a week from the family's income of $44.

I make this plea in all sincerity because I know the members of this family and am fully aware of their problems. I assure the Minister that their situation is grave. They are an English migrant family who came to Victoria in good faith. The Herald article mentioned some of the information that was supplied to the family, who came here under the impression that the State education system in Victoria was free. Of course, when they arrived here they found that that was not the case. The Herald article mentions no less a person than the Director-General of Education who earlier this year stated that education in Victoria is not free.

. I beg the Minister to put to his colleague, the Minister of Education, that the Government, when applying the means test to which I referred, should be prepared to take into consideration the amount of rent paid by a family in these circumstances as being part of the permissible income. I am sure if that were done considerable relief would be afforded to a large number of families in similar circumstances.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine).-It was indicated earlier to-day that question No. 28 would be answered later in the day. In view of the urgency of the difficulties experienced by the casualty section of the Footscray and District Hospital I now ask whether the answer of the Minister of Health is available.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).I am informed by the Minister of State Development, who represents the Minister of Health in this House, that the information is not available at present. However, I shall arrange for the honorable member to be advised of the answer verbally tomorrow morning, if pOSSible, and, if the question is repeated next Tuesday, it will be answered accordingly.

3508 Adjournment. .[ASSEMBL Y.] Adjournment •

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).I wish to raise a similar point in relation to questions Nos. 19 and 20 which were to be answered later to-day. It has not been stated whether they will be answered to-day or will be placed on the Notice Paper on the next day of meeting.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).That is not true. The Minister of Public Works announced earlier that he could not obtain the answers to-day. Automatically, if the information sought is not available, the questions appear on the Notice Paper on the next day of meeting. The Government has, as far as possible, attempted to supply answers to questions and a considerable number of them have been answered. It is not true to suggest that the Government is attempting to avoid answering questions, because earlier to-day I heard the Minister of Public Works state that questions Nos. 19 and 20 would not be answered to-day.

Mr. WILToN.-The Minister did not make that statement.

Mr. RYLAH.-He did. The Minister asked that those questions should be repeated next Tuesday. The Government indicated that questions would be answered to-day if possible, and that has been done. It would have been quite easy for Ministers to say "Repeat them all next Tuesday". The Government has the right to say whether or not it will answer questions. We did our best to answer questions to-day, and I object to the implication of the honorable member for Moonee Ponds that the Government promised to answer them this day but did not do so. I was present when the Minister of Public Works said to the honorable member, "Please repeat the questions on the next day of sitting".

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moo nee Ponds).Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. The Chief Secretary stated that I implied that the Government would not answer questions. I made no such implication. I understood the Minister of Public Works to say that

he would answer these questions later to-day. I raised the matter to ascertain whether the questions would be answered to-day or at some other sitting.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-There is no pOint of order, but I think the matter has been cleared up satisfactorily.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-I refer to the Assistant Minister of Education a problem of urgent concern which has been brought to my attention. It relates to the state of disrepair of the Horsham High School. I should like the Government to give consideration to the question of. replacing, rebuilding or remodelling the old existing building. At present the school is in a hotch-potch condition, presumably brought about by the limited area available for building and by the fact that portable classrooms, as well as a new domestic science and science block, have been erected. The people of Horsham are grateful for that. It was intended that money should be spent on reconditioning or renovating the main building, which has seen better days. One has only to see its condition to realize that it should be rebuilt. There is a limited area of land on which to build, and it is suggested that a multistoried high school is required. I hope the Government will give consideration to this matter; if something can be achieved through the agency of a by-election, good luck to the people of Horsham!

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -Some three years ago I represented the Leader of the Country Party at a ceremony conducted by the Housing Commission to launch a new project -known as industrialized houseswhich the Commission had been preparing for some time. On occasions, I have drawn the attention of the Government and of the Minister of Housing to the ramifications of this project and to its effect on the building industry in . country districts. This type of house is of more or less pre-fabricated construction, the finished parts being taken to and assembled on the site.


At the ceremony to which I have referred, the then chairman of the Housing Commission pointed out that the construction of one of these houses could be carried out by a contractor with four or five labourers in approximately one month, whereas a contractor with eight or nine tradesmen would spend some 90 days in the building of a house in conventional style. During a debate in this House, I pointed out to the Government the effect that this would have on tradesmen in country towns, because the net result of this method of construction was that the labour content required in the building of houses was being transferred from the country to the city. This morning I received a letter from the Bairnsdale Plaster Works which I feel should be drawn to the attention of the Minister of Housing. It readsDear Sir,

It is with concern that we approach you on the Housing Commission's arrangement that a further 40 industrialized houses are to be built in the Gippsland area. We not only object most strongly to the continued erection of this unit, but appeal to the Government through you for urgent conversion of these 4O-odd units to conventional type constructions.

There does not appear to be any reason whatsoever why we should be forced to decay through inactivity, whilst the work we are willing and geared to carry out is handed on a plate to the metropolitan area. Forty houses means employment for 80 onsite tradesmen for approximately 240 days, without taking into consideration the employees involved in the manufacture of some 154,000 square feet of sheeting in addition to labourers, drivers, &c.

Does the Government expect us manufacturers to retain this skilled labour? In fact the situation is such that we are to a large degree dependent on the Housing Commission for contracts so that it can well be seen what a drastic effect the 40 industrialised units will have on our industry in the Gippsland region. Would you please treat this appeal for assistance with the utmost urgency before the 40 units are under way. Thanking you in anticipation of positive and successful action.

Yours faithfully, G. DOSSER.

Session 1968.-132

This letter emphasizes the point I have been endeavouring to make on this issue during the past two or three years. The houses contain, for example, plumbing systems which are of a pre-packaged type, and which are very simply installed. This could mean that there would be no work for plumbers in country towns. The electric wiring is included in the wall construction and this cuts down the work that is available for electricians. As a result, all of the labour required in the building of houses in the country is being transferred! to the city where the houses are manufactured.

This also affects the private sector of the building industry in country areas, and those who wish privately to undertake the construction of houses. When the effect of the introduction of houses of this type is fully felt, fewer tradesmen will be available in many country towns, and this will lead to increased costs of home construction; the increase will affect, in particular, the private sector of the industry.

In view of the difficulties with which many people in rural areas are confronted at present, and the great need for employment in country towns, I feel that it is incumbent upon the Government, as one of the many steps it ought to take to relieve the employment position to assist in this matter. '

Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-I direct the attention of the Minister of Labour and Industry, representing the Minister of Education, to a complaint that I have received fronl two parents of children at the Redcliffs High School. This school has been without a senior mathematics teacher this year. Honorable members will appreciate that this is a serious matter for a high school which caters for pupils up to leaving standard. Only one teacher at this school is qualified to teach mathematics and he is teaching the junior forms. Pupils in Forms IV.

3510 Adjournment .. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

and V. have not received a mathematics lesson. They have been given additional science lessons, so that if and when a mathematics teacher becomes available they will be able to spend more time on mathematics subjects. I understand that there is a serious shortage of mathematics teachers throughout the secondary system, and that a similar position exists at other high schools as obtains at Redcliffs High School.

Arrangements have been made to obtain the services of a teacher from another high school 16 miles away, for perhaps two days a week. How can the State hope to have sufficient mathematics teachers if students are not given proper tuition in these subjects? Obviously if the students fail at the leaving level, this will in turn have an effect on mathematics courses at matriculation, teachers' college and university levels. Drastic action should be taken to overcome this deficiency. I ask the Minister to endeavour to provide, as soon as possible, a qualified senior mathematics teacher for the Redcliffs High School and all other high schools in the State.

Mr. TANNER (Caulfield).-The even flow of traffic in metropolitan streets is of considerable importance in making full use of their capacity. The flow of vehicles could be greatly improved if regulations were framed and implemented requiring a quicker get-away of motor vehicles from intersections when the lights change, enabling them to move. A good deal of time is wasted by some motorists in engaging and changing gears after the lights have changed to green, and consequently traffic moves off too slowly. I urge the Ministers concerned with road traffic to consider the drafting of regulations designed to improve the flow of traffic. Motorists should be required to move off reasonably quickly when the traffic lights are in their favour.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-1 shall refer to the Minister of Education the matter

raised by the honorable member for Broadmeadows, concerning a report which appeared on the front page of the Herald to-night on the inability of a family in his electorate to pay for the children's education. The honorable member for Mildura referred to the staffing of the Redcliffs High School, and I shall also direct his remarks to the Minister of Education.

I am not sure whether the traffic problem raised by the honorable member for Caulfield comes within the purview of the Chief Secretary, but after the Hansard report of his remarks has been published I shall ensure that his complaint is referred to the Chief Secretary, the Minister of Transport, and any other authority which may be concerned.

The honorable member for Deer Park spoke of the educational system situation in Horsham. I do not quite follow what the honorable member was doing in Horsham, which is som~ 200 miles from his electorate, but perhaps he was endeavouring to stir up something in connexion with the Western Province by-election. It seems to me that this is an unworthy approach by the honorable member, who could well apply his abilities and energy to his own electorate. Last year, as Assistant Minister of Education, I called a conference of some people concerned with the educational future of Horsham. They included representatives of the local council, local education, the district inspector, certain people concerned with town and country planning aspects of Horsham, and the honorable member for Lowan, who represented that area at the time. As a result, a plan was produced for future educational developments in Horsham which the honorable member for Deer Park might well study, and which I shall make available to him for that purpose. However, I suggest that the honorable member should confine his activities to his own district.


until Tuesday, March 12.

Victorian Limbless Soldiers' [12 MARCH, 1968.] Provident Fund (Closing) Bill. 3511

1Jlrgislntinr (!tunn!il. Tuesday, March 12, 1968.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett) took the chair at 4.50 p.m., and read the prayer.

THE CONSTITUTION ACT AMENDMENT (GOVERNOR'S

SALARY) BILL. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (M'in

ister of Agriculture) presented a message from the Governor intimating that His Excellency had caused The Constitution Act Amendm,ent (Governor's Salary) Bill, which was reserved for the signification of Her Majesty's pleasure thereon, and received Her Majesty's assent on the 26th January, 1968, to be proclaimed in the Government Gazette.

MARRIAGE (LIABILITY IN TORT) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government), was read a first time.

ADMINISTRATION AND PROBATE (AMENDMENT) BILL (No.2).

public Bill:,' and I propose that the same procedure be followed in this House. Therefore, I move-

That this Bill be dealt with as a public Bill.

The mot,ion was agreed to.

On the motion of the Han. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education), the Bill was read a first time.

CHllLDREN'S COURT (PROCEDURE) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education), was read a first time.

LA TROBE UNIVERSITY (AMlENDMENT) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education), was read a first time.

COUNTRY ROADS (BORROWING POWERS) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the m'ot'ion of the Han. V. O. DICKIE (Minister of Health), was read a first time.

TYABB TO LONG ISLAND RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION BILL.

This Bill was received from the This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Han. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Local Government), was read a first Agriculture), was read a first time. time.

VICTORIAN LIMBLESS SOLDIERS' PROVIDENT FUND (CLOSING)

BILL. This Bill was received from the

Assembly.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-I have examined this measure, and in my view it -is a private Bill.

The Hon. L. H. S. 'f!HOMPSON (Minister of Education).-In another place, this Bill was also ruled to be a private Bill, but was treated as a

HAIRDRESSERS REGISTRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. V. O. DICKIE (Minister of Health), was read a first Hme.

POLICE OFFENCES (PUBI .. ICATIONS) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government), was read a fir-st time.

3512 Education [COUNCIL.] Department.

LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (AMENDMENT) BILL.

This Bill was reoeived from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education), was read a first time.


This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government), was read a first time.

CLERK OF THE PARLIAMENTS. ApPOINTMENT OF MR. LESLIE GRAHAM

McDoNALD.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-I have pleasure in announcing that Mr. Leslie Graham McDonald, the Clerk of the Legislative Council, has been appointed by His Excellency the Governor in Council to be also Clerk of the Parliaments as from 7th March, 1968, in place of Mr. John Archibald Robertson, retired.

I am sure all hon·orable members join with me in offering the congratulations of the Council to Mr. McDonald upon his elevation to the position of Clerk of the Parliaments. It is indeed a well deserved promotion.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. INNER-SUBURBAN SCHOOLS.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE (SouthEastern Province) asked the Minister of Education-

(a) In the past twelve months, what properties have been acquired or are in the process of being acquired to relieve cramped or overcrowded schools in innerindustrial areas, stating the price in each case?

(b) When is it expected that tenders will be called for the first new inner-suburban school, and which site will be used?

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

(a) Site extensions within a 5-mile radius of Melbourne since February, 1967:-

T.S. Swinburne $60,000 1467 Hawksburn $17,000 T.S. Swinburne $10,800 G.S.S. Brunswick $10,800 1886 Abbotsford $6,400 450 Fitzroy .. $7,300 1467 Hawksburn $13,000 3680 Deepdene $16,000 T.S. Prahran $7,OQS) 1886 Abbotsford $7,000

New Site:-4980 Carlton, Neill-street (part), $244,527.

Negotiations are in progress to secure a secondary and a technical school site in the Carlton reclamation area; primary school sites in Fitzroy and Richmond and a primary school site in Flemington.

(b) Tenders closed for the following schools on the dates indicated:-

Flemington High School, 12th March, 1965. Prahran High School, 16th July, 1965. Brunswick High School, 28th July, 1965, and 29th September, 1967. Northcote Technical School (first building), 17th March, 1967.

It is expected that the next school to be built in the inner industrial area will be a new infant section for State School No. 450 Fitzroy-tenders for which are expected to be called during May, 1968.

HIGH AND PRIMARY SCHOOLS: NEW HEAD MASTERS.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) asked the Minister of Education-

(a) How many high schools are there in Victoria and how many of these have new head masters this year?

(b) How many primary schools are there in Victoria and how many of these have new head masters this year?


(a) 234; 53. (b) 1,925; 660.

HOUSING OF TEACHERS.


(a) Is he aware that a Victorian Teachers' Union survey revealed that at least 1,150 Victorian teachers will be without satisfactory housing in country towns this year?

Education [12 MARCH, 1968.] Department. 3513

(b) What effect has the shortage had on the serious under-staffing of country schools?

(c) When is it expected that a decision will be made to establish a teachers' housing authority?


(a) The survey was conducted towards the end of 1967 before the majority of teachers had finalized their housing arrangements. Recent investigations revealed that very few country teachers were without satisfactory accommodation and their cases are under consideration at present.

(b) It is not possible to give a precise answer to this question. The availability of housing is only one of many factors considered by teachers in applying for positions throughout the State. Others -include climatic conditions, remoteness, transport facilities, proximity to Melbourne or provincial centres, availability of secondary or tertiary education or employment oppor· tunities for members of family, &c.

(c) The main argument put forward for the establishment of a teachers' housing authority was that it would be able to raise additional money for teachers' housing. At this stage there is no evidence to substantiate this statement. However, the question of teachers' housing is at present under review.

SECONDARY TEACHERS: TRANSFERS.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) asked the Minister of Education-

(01) How many Education Department secondary teachers are at present employed?

(b) How many of these teachers were transferred to another school during the Christmas holidays?

(c) How many of these transfers were the result of promotion?

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-If Mr. Clarke is prepared to wait until the result of the count of teachers as at 31st March, 1968, is known, the information will be conveyed to him as soon as possible thereafter.

PORTABLE CLASS-ROOMS.


(a) How many portable class-rooms are currently in use by the Education Department?

(b) How many portable class-rooms have been constructed in this financial year to date and how many is it expected will be constructed by the end of the financial year?

(c) How many schools requested portable class-rooms for 1968 and how many of these failed to get the number requested?

(d) In each case, what school was involved, how many temporary class-rooms were reques.ted, and what alternative accommodation is being used?

(e) What is the average cost of-(i) constructing portable class-rooms; (ii) moving each portable class-room from the construction site to the school site; and (iii) moving a portable class-room from one school to another?

The Hon.. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

(a) 698.

(b) 132; 14:1.

(c) and (d). The allocation of portable class-rooms is not based on requests from schools although these are taken into account.

Allocation is continuous and is made after consideration of the following points:-

1. Total number of pupils in the school. 2. Average size of classes at various

grade and form levels. 3. Anticipa:ted increases at various levels. 4. Date of anticipated increases. 5. Effect of anticipated increases on size

of existing groups. 6. Divisions of classes for special

reasons. 7. Possible combination of classes or

groups. 8. Special instructional requirements aris

ing from curriculum or the needs of individuals.

9. Accessibility of suitable hired accommodation or accommodation in neighbouring schools.

10. Any special considerations affecting a particlular school.

11. When permanent additions or new schools are likely to be completed.

Recommendations of inspectors of schools and of the appropriate Assistant Director of Education of each division are also taken in to account.

The process of the allocation of portable class-rooms continues as permanent classrooms are completed and portables become available as a result. Schools therefore which have claims to portable class-rooms but have failed, to date are at present under consideration for an allocation.

3514 Water [COUNCIL.] Supply.

(e) On current contract rates the average costs are:-

(i) 24 ft. x 24 ft. class-room, $4,150. 32 ft. x 24 ft. class-room (woodwork),

$4,999. 32 ft. x 24 ft. class-room (art), $5,059. 32 ft. x 24 ft. class-room (science),

$5,202. 32 ft. x 24 ft. class-room (full

science), $6,864. (ii) Within the under-mentioned distances

from Melbourne:-Under 25 miles: cost included in class

room price. 25- 75 miles: $5.46 a mile. 75-125 miles: $4.71 a mile.

125-175 miles: $4.55 a mile. 175-225 miles: $4.41 a mile. 225-275 miles: $4.25 a mile. 275-325 miles: $4.15 a mile.

(iii)

Disconnection Mileage and Re-erection. Rates.

Distances from Melbourne. Loaded Unloaded

32' x 24'. 24'x24'. Trans- Trans-port. port.

------------$ $ $ $

Under 25 miles 352 264 2'75 1'40

25-75 miles 352 264 2·60 1·25

75-125 miles 352 264 2·60 1·25

125-175 miles 352 264 2·60 1·25

175-225 miles 352 264 2·60 1·25

225-275 miles 388 291 2·60 1·25

275-325 miles 388 291 2'60 1·25

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE.-I do not think the Minister has answered question (d).

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON.-I think that in the re-typing of the sheets the answer to question "( d) has not been included, and I ask Mr. Cathie to repeat the question on the next day of meeting.

WATER SUPPLY. BUNYIP DRAIN: KOO-WEE-Rup

SUPPLY.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE (SouthEastern Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) VVhat procedures have been used to regulate and distribute an adequate supply of water down the Bunyip drain for stock and domestic purposes as well as town water supplies, from the diversion point on the channel?

(b) VVhat was the cause of the failure to divert a sufficient quantity of water to meet the needs of farmers and the people of Koo-Wee-Rup?

(c) VVhat steps has the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission taken to ensure an adequate supply of water for Koo-WeeRup in the immediate future?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The answers are-

(a) On Monday, 19th February, when it became apparent that a shortage of supply of water could develop in the Tarago river and the Bunyip main drain, the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission released a flow of 300,000 gallons per day below the Tarago river diversion weir, increasing the flow in the river below the junction of the East Tarago river to 650,000 gallons per day. On 22nd February, the Commission ceased diversion from the Tarago river to the Tarago-Bunyip race line and allowed the river flow to pass downstream, resulting in a flow in the river of 1,500,000 gallons per day. This release continued until the morning of 26th February. On March 5th, 1968, the Commission again ceased diversion to the Tarago race line for a further period of four days. The TaragoBunyip race line supplies the urban requirements of the townships of Longwarry, Bunyip, Garfield, Nar-Nar-Goon, Tynong and Pakenham and, in order to reduce usage by these consumers, restrictions were introduced limiting the watering of domestic gardens to the use of a bucket or can held in the hand for ()nly two and a half hours per day. The cessation of diversions from the Tarago river to the race line for a prolonged period would seriously prejudice the supply of water available to these townships.

(b) The shortage of water for farmers along the Tarago river and the Bunyip main drain and for residents of Koo-Wee-Rup is a direct result of extremely dry conditions which have been experienced in the catchment and the abnormally high water losses occurring through seepage from the stream.

(c) Following investigation, the Commission encouraged and authorized action taken by the Koo-Wee-Rup Waterworks Trust to develop supply from a bore. Further, it arranged erection of a temporary sand-bag dam to impound for use in the township the small flow coming down the main drain from the Bunyip river.

MILLEWA WATER SUPPLY PROJECT.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL (NorthWestern Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) Which is the responsible authority to decide upon the question of piping the stock and domestic water supply to the Millewa district of North-Western Victoria?

Water [12 MARCH, 1968.] Supply. 3515

(b) Has a decision been made on such a project; if so, when is it expected that work will commence?

(c) Has a scheme been designed; if so, is it on the same lines as was recommended by the State Development Committee?

(d) On what basis is the cost to be apportioned between the authority and consumers?

(e) Will the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission delegate the Mallee divisional engineer to meet the settlers at a meeting to be called in Werrimull to discuss the project?


(a) The State Rivers and Water Supply Commission is the authority responsible for technical questions, while the question of providing the large amount of funds involved is at present under consideration by the Government.

(b) The project is one of those submitted to the Commonwealth Government for financial assistance. No advice has been received from the Commonwealth, and therefore no deoision has been made.

( c) A preHminary design of the supply system has been prepared. This is on the same lines as was recommended by the State Development Committee.

(d) As recommended by the Commission and the State Development Committee, the proposal is to charge half the capital cost to the district, i.e., the consumers. Interest and redemption at 3t per cent., chargeable annually on this half share, would be a pa~t of the annual costs recoverable by ratmg.

(e) Yes. It will, however, only be possible to discuss the proposal in terms of the preliminary design. It is not possible at this stage to indicate when the work will start nor the period that will be required for completion.

WATER SHORTAGE IN COUNTRY AREAS: DRILLING OPERATIONS.

The Hon. R. W. MAY (Gippsland Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) What steps are being taken to meet the shortage of water in country areas of the State where, due to the drought, springs and shallow bores are dry?

(b) How many drilling rigs are owned by the Government or Government Departments and are such plants fully employed in drilling operations?

(c) Where are such plants operating and what terms are farmers charged for their use?

(d) Will the Government give financial assistance towards the purchase of drilling rigs to be used for water boring; if so, on what basis?


(a) The fonowing details have been supplied to me by the Minister of Lands :-

Early in November last, with a view to augmenting water supplies, the Government decided to divert deep drilling equipment owned by the Mines Department from exploratory departmental survey work to drilling operations designed to provide water for community water points and for emergency supply to country townships. Municipalities in consultation with the Mines Department were subsequently authorized to engage private contractors to supplement Government owned drilling rigs engaged on community water points. Such bores are drilled, cased and equipped with funds made available by way of grants from the Commonwealth drought moneys and, usually under the control of the municipality, are available for use as community points. As a first priority, points are being provided to ensure that farmers will not have to cart water in excess of 10 or 11 miles. To meet the increased demand for drilling equipment, interstate drilling contractors were encouraged to move to Victoria and their services are available to municipalities for community schemes as well as to individual farmers who make their separate arrangements with the contractor. In addition, funds have been approved for various emergency schemes to fit particular community projects where boring was not the most practical answer.

(b) The Minister of Mines advises that his Department has fifteen drilling rigs suitable for water boring. Twelve of these are continuously engaged in drilling for waterthe other three rigs are unserviceable as permanent field units and are being offered for sale.

The State Rivers and Water Supply Commission has two water boring plants in operation.

(c) Water boring rigs are currently drilling for local municipalities and water supply authorities in the following centres-

Bealiba. Brimpaen. Casterton. Irrewillipe. Ky-Valley. Lexton. Nilma .. Shelford. Stawell (two rigs).

3516 Water [COUNCll...] Supply.

Sunbury. Vasey. Wallace. Yarraberb.

Drilling for private individuals is not undertaken.

(d) The Minister of Lands has advised me that to date it has not been necessary for the Government to finance the purchase of drilling rigs for private contractors.

THOMSON RIVER: DIVERSION OF WATER TO MELBOURNE.

The Hon. R. W. MAY (Gippsland Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) When was the water from the Thomson river first diverted to Melbourne and what were the volumes at that time--(i) in the diversion channel; and (ii) left in the Thomson river?

(b) What are the respective flows in each of these categories now?

(c) What was the agreed minimum volume in the Thomson river below which no diversion would take place?

(d) Has this volume been reviewed; if so, what is the basis. of such review?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-The answers contain quite a deal of information and, with the leave of the House, I suggest that they be incorporated in Hansard without my reading them.


(a) December 16th, 1967-(i) 9.2 cubic feet per second.

(ii) Nil at the point of diversion. (b) Last week the flows were-

(i) Nil. (ii) Less than 6 cubic feet per second.

(c) Flow at Cooper's creek on the Thomson river some 60 miles below the diversion point is the basis of agreement for diversion by the Board of Works. \Vhen the flow at this point is less than the following, diversion is to cease--

Flow in Cusecs. November 50 December 100 January 140 February 130 March.. 120 April 60 M~ W June 40 (d) Early in January when the flow in the

Thomson river at the diversion point had fallen to the order of 2 to 3 cusecs, the Commission agreed to permit the Board to

divert this flow until the end of January, although the flow at Cooper's creek was below the specified minimum.

The arrangement was made with the knowledge that the effect at Cowwarr would not be significant and a correlation between low flows at the diversion point and Cooper's creek was required for future diversion control.

As had been agreed with the Board, the position was reviewed by the Commission at the end of January.

It was decided that diversions should again be determined in accordance with the agreement. This meant that diversions from the Upper Thomson to the Yarra ceased immediately and there has been no diversion since that date.

LA TROBE LIBRARY. AIR CONDITIONING: DRINKING

FOUNTAIN.

The Hon. SAMUEL MERRIFIELD (Doutta Galla Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) Will the Government install air-conditioning in the La Trobe Library to protect vital manuscripts and other historic material and the users from the difficult conditions which prevail?

(b) Will a drinking fountain be placed in the ground floor of the library for the convenience of workers in the library?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-The answers are-

(a) When the La Trobe Library was designed and constructed, provision was made for air-conditioning and all ducting work was installed at the time. The question of the installation of the necessary refrigeration unit is one to be determined having regard to other priorities in the general work programme.

(b) This will receive consideration.

RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. FIRE AT WINTON: PREVENTION

MEASURES.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY (North··Eastern Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) What action do the Railways Commissioners propose taking to prevent a recurrence of fires starting from diesel engines similar to that at Winton on the North-East line, on. Wednesday, the 21st February last?

(b) What grade of diesel oil was used by the engine?

(c) What type of spark arrestor was used on the engine?

Teachers [12 MARCH, 1968.] Tribunal. 3517

(d) Was the train halted at Glenrowan; if so-(i) for what purpose and for how long; and (ii) was the engine changed?


( a) I am informed by the Minister of Transport that no finding has yet been made as to the cause of the fire at Winton, and that he has already supplied the honorable member with information relating to the allegations that some fires in the country areas have been caused by diesel electric locomotives.

I can assure the House that all precautions which can be taken have been and will continue to be taken by the Railways Commissioners to ensure that no fires are likely to be started by any trains operated by them.

(b) Distillate fuel. (c) The muffler fitted to this type of

locomotive is one designed by the Electro Motive Division of General Motors, United States of America, and has been fitted to all Victorian Railways diesel-electric locomotives.

This type of muffler is common throughout United States of America and is fitted to locomotives operating in South Africa and Europe, in addition to locomotives being used on the New South Wales Railways and Commonwealth Railways.

(d) Yes. (i) It was halted because it was alleged

to have caused a fire. It was stopped for 33 minutes for the driver to inspect it.

(ii) No fault was found in the locomotive and the livestock special train continued with the same locomotive.

TEACHERS TRIBUNAL. SALARY CLAIMS.


(a) When did the Teachers Tribunal last hear a salary claim and when was a determination made?

(b) Since then, how many applications have been received by the Tribunal from teacher organizations to hear a salary claim and in each case what was the date of the application and the reply of the Tribunal?

(c) Has any date been set down for the hearing of a salary claim?


(a) and (b). The last salary claim heard bv the Tribunal was on 22nd November, 1967, concerning equal pay and a determination was made on 15th December, 1967.

If, howeve:r, the honorable member is referring to a. general salaries claim covering all members of the Teaching Service. the Tribunal last heard a series of claims in June and July, 1966. and a determination was made on 3rd November. 1966. rejecting all claims.

The last general award made by the Tribunal was on 21st June. 1965, arising from claims submitted in March of that year.

Since that award there has been a number of applications, and considerable correspondence regarding variations in all or parts of the award from approved organizations.

All flow awards made by the Arbitration Commission-that is. the I! per cent. margins adjustment in 1965, the basic wage increase of $104 in July, 1966, the 2! per cent. margins adjustment in January. 1967, and the basic wage increase of $52 in July, 1967-have been applied to the salaries of teachers. In January, 1967, a revision of the scale of salaries for temporary teachers was made enabling certain members to progress to the maximum salary payable to Class III. Primary teacbers. In July, 1967, a new determination was made for all professional officers. In January, 1968, the first phase of full implementation of equal pay was introduced.

(c) No.

DECENTRALIZATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

IMPLEMENTATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY (North-Eastern Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

Has any action been taken to implement the recommendations in the Decentralization Advisory Committee's report; if so-(i) what recommendations have been implemented; and (ii) what incentives will be available to selected areas and will similar incentives be available to non-selected areas attracting industries as a result of their own efforts?

The Hon. (Minister of answer is-

G. L. CHANDLER Agriculture) .-The

Yes. Action is being taken to set up development committees in each of the five recommended areas. These committees will include representatives from the local municipalities and organizations or individuals with particular knowledge of and/or interest in commerce, industry and the like.

Each local development committee will include a promotion officer who will be a member of the staff of the Division of State Development.

3518 Aboriginal Affairs [COUNCIL.] Advisory Council.

It should be noted that approaches have been made to the New South Wales Government with respect to its possible p~rticipation in a Wodonga/ Albury commIttee.

All existing incentives offered to ini(}ustries being established in decentralized .areas will be retained and will apply with ·equal effect in localities other than the five ." selected" areas.

Representations have also been made to the Federal Government concerning the five matters recommended by the Decentralization Advisory Committee, over which the Federal Government has sole jurisdiction.

ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS ADVISORY COUNCIL.

ABORIGINES' REPRESENTATIVES.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

Will the Government give some definite indication when it will, as promised, create the means by which Aborigines will elect their own three representatives on the Aboriginal Affairs Advisory Council?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The Minister for Aboriginal Affairs has furnished the following answer:-

The Aboriginal Affairs Advisory Council has only just been appointed and has not yet held its first meeting, but it is intended that as soon as possible the new council will, as promised during debates in the Assembly, be asked to consider the question with a view to advising the Minister.

LAKE TYERS ABORIGINAL STATION: COVERED WALKS BETWEEN BUILDINGS.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

What action has been taken to honour the undertaking to erect covered walks from the houses to exterior toilet blocks in dwellings constructed for Aboriginal families at Lake Tyers?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The Minister for Aboriginal Affairs has furnished the following answer:-

A programme of priority building works is being carried out at Lake Tyers, and when these works have been completed consideration will be given to the erection of covered walks at three dwellings.

VICTORIA RACING CLUB. MEMBERSHIP: IMPROVEMENTS:

RECEIPTS FROM TOTALIZATOR AGENCY BOARD.

The Hon. ARCHIBALD TODD (Melbourne West Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

Will he ascertain and furnish the House with the following information-(i) what is the current membership of the Victoria Racing Club; (ii) what is the annual membership fee; (iii) what amounts have the club expended in each of the past five years in the interests of its members, and of the general public, respectively, and what are these improvements; and (iv) what disbursement has the club received since the ope:ration of the Totalizator. Agency Board, glvmg the respective categorIes to which the money was allocated?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The Victoria Racing Club is a private organization, and the information required is not available to the Government. I suggest that Mr. Todd might direct his inquiry to the secretary of the club concerned.

NEW MELBOURNE CEMETERY TRUST, FAWKNER.

MEMBERSHIP.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) Who are the members of the New Melbourne Cemetery Trust, Fawkner?

(b) Does the Melbourne City Council have a dominance of representation; if so, why?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-The answers are-

(a) The corporations of the cities of Melbourne, Essendon, Brunswick, Coburg and Broadmeadows are the trustees of the New Melbourne Cemetery, Fawkner.

Each city appoints certain persons as managers of the cemetery. The present managers and the cities appointing them are--

Cr. L. T. Fox, City of Melbourne. Cr. H. G. Cantwell, City of Melbourne. Cr. J. Stansfield-Smith, City of Melbourne. Cr. J. L. Cassells, City of Melbourne. Cr. J. E. Daley, City of Melbourne. Cr. C. Cascarret, City of Melbourne. Cr. J. J. Bastick, City of Essendon. Cr. E. H. Jones, City of Brunswick.


Cr. R. K. Evans, City of Broadmeadows. Cr. K. W. Joyce, City of Coburg. Cr. R. K. Evans, of Broadmeadows, is the

present chairman. (b) The number of managers appointed

by a council is determined by the amount of capital subscribed by each. Originally the City of Melbourne, the Town of North Melbourne and the Borough of Flemington and Kensington appointed four, one and one managers respectively, but with the incorporation of the Town of North Melbourne and the Borough of Flemington and Kensington in the City of Melbourne that city's representation increased to six.

AERIAL SPRAYING CONTROL (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Aerial Spraying Control Act 1966.

The mot-ion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in ·and read

a first time.

REPRESENTATION OF WESTERN PROVINCE.

ISSUE OF WRIT.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett) announced that on the 4th March he had issued a writ for the election of a member to serve f'Or the Western Province .in the place of the Honorable Sir Ronald Mack, deceased, and that by such writ the following dates had been fixed for such election:-Nom'ination day, Friday, 22nd of March, 1968; polling day, Saturday, 6th of April, 1968; return of writ, before or on Friday, 19th of April, 1968.


The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. This Bill is not directed at the ordinary course of settlement of disputes, nor does it seek to enter the field of arbitration, which is a Commonwealth responsibility. It is said that there is a right to strike, and I think nobody would deny the general right of a man to w-ithhold his labour or of a group of men t'O

withhold their labour if they are dissatisfied with their working conditions, or to press their claims in an industrial dispute.

This Bill does not seek to attack or restrict that general power, but there is another right-the right to workand there is a field in which these two fundamental rights can come into direct conflict. This is the field of the essential services in this State -the energy and the transport industries particularly-which are the lifeblood and the very fabric of the working life of this community.

If a small group of people, in exercising their right to strike, are prepared to deny to hundreds of thousands of others the right to work, then, under some circumstances, a higher community interest has to be invoked.

These people who are deprived of the right to work ~re the innocent victims in a dispute in which they have no pa.rt, are deprived of comfort, of recreation, of income, perhaps of health or safety, and they are entitled to look to the Government, in these special cases, for protection and for the safeguarding of the community interest.

This Bill :is not a substitute for the arbitration system to which we are all committed. On the contrary, it operates in aid of it. The Government and semi-government authorities which run the basic services have always accepted and carried out arbitration rulings to the letter. It is the umpire's decision and it must be obeyed. The arbitration machinery is there for the settlement of disputes and, so long as it is being used, a Bill such as this can have no operation.

Those employed in the essential services, having greater job security than others, and having so much of the community welfare in their hands, have a special responsibility to resort to that arbitration machinery if a dispute cannot otherwise be resolved.

The Bill is aimed, not a t the ordinary industrial dispute, not at the ordinary strike involving employer and employee, but at the emergency

3520 Essential Services [COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

which may arise if a small group is prepared, in the course of an industrial dispute in an essential service, deliberately or recklessly to involve the whole community, millions of innocent people, in danger, hardship and heavy loss.

It is almost exactly twenty years since the Vic.torian Parliament passed the original Essential Services Act 1948. It was a time of great turmoil because of widespread and irresponsible strike action taken by certain communist-led unions, especially in transport, which was causing the greatest distress and hardship to the rest of the community.

The Act which was brought in by the Liberal-Country Party Government of the time was clearly explained by the then Attorney-General as being framed for emergency purposes only and was to operate in a limited field, namely, the public utilities and essential . services on which the whole industrial life and activities of a complex modern society depend. Those "essential services" are defined in the Act as including transport, fuel, light, power, water and sewerage.

The Essential Services Act is in two parts. The first part, sections 4 to 10, deals with the declaration of a sta te of emergency. The other main part, from section 11 onwards, provides for the taking of a secret ballot of the members of a union before strike action is taken. The two compartments are quite separate, and the second, relating to secret ballots, has probably been largely superseded by similar later provisions in Commonwealth legislation.

It is the first part which, in the light of recent events, seems deficIent, and this is the reason for this Bill. We have had, in the last month, two 24-hour strikes in the power industry in which a small group caused widespread loss to the community and threw hundreds of thousands of people out of work. More such strikes are threatened. Those incidents are past,

The Hon. R. J. Hamer.

but they showed how a dispute is capable of developing into the kind of emergency in which the Essential Services Act was designed to operate.

On the 6th March the secretary of the Trades Hall Council, Mr. M. C. Jordan, was quoted in the Sun NewsPictorial as saying that the Government was being" baited" into using the Essential Services Act by "communist influences." Later he was quoted as saying-

Some unions have obviously shown a blatant disregard of the rules and procedures of the trade union movement.

If, then, an emergency situation developed, would the present Act be effective? This is the crux of the situation and the reason for this Bill, and I ask members of the Country Party to have a good look at it. The Government has brought in this Bill because, in the light of recent events, it believes the answer to the question I have just posed is "No ".

The present Act in section 4 provides for the proclamation of a state of emergency in circumstances where-any action has been taken or is immediately threatened by any persons or body of persons whereby any essential service is or is likely to be interrupted or dislocated ... In recent stoppages the power has not been cut off entirely, and it would be difficult to say that the service was interrupted or dislocated. There has not been a complete stoppage of the service. In fact, about half the ordinary power was generated. Nevertheless the damage to the community was enormous.

This is the situation with which this Bill deals. It applies the same philosophy as the Act itself-that the community is entitled to demand the maintenance of essential services, even when a dispute exists in the industry. There is nothing new in that philosophy.

I t has been suggested that this is unusual or unprecedented legislation, but it is not. It is reflected in legisla tion in many parts of the world and in other parts of Australia-in New South Wales, the Emergency Powers Act 1949; in South Australia, the


Emergency Powers Act 1941; in Queensland, the Industrial Law (Amendment) Act. 196?; in. Tasmania a Bill almost IdentIcal wIth the Victo~ian legislation was introduced, but I do not think it was actually passed; and the Common~ealth had various Acts about the tIme of the coal crisis towards the late 1940's, and Mr. Chifley introduced the National Emergency (Local Strike) Act 1949. There is no need for me to refer specifically to that legislation except to say that it illustrates the common philosophy of people that the essential services of a community are entitled to be kept going.

Honorable members will note that the New South Wales Act is in almost identical terms with the Victorian Essential Services Act. In fact, the New South Wales Act, introduced by a Labor Government in 1949, goes further and refers not only to the interruption and dislocation of services but also to circumstances where the service provided is "less than is sufficient for the reasonable requirements of the community." This is considerably wider than the Essential Services Act of Victoria, and the Act gives the Governor, in circumstances when a proclamation of an emergency has been made, the power to make regula tions requiring persons to place their services and their property at the disposal of the State "as may appear to be necessary or expedient for securing the maintenance, supply or provision of essential services and essential commodities." Therefore, it is of considerably wider purview than the existing' Victorian Act.

The role of the Government is to protect the community against action by any group, whether employers or employees, which throws unprotected and innocent people out of work. I sincerely hope that the Act may never be used. I t~us~ that ~o group, in order to press Its m?ust~IaI demands, will ever create a SItuatIon of such gravity that a Government will feel impelled to proclaim a state of emergency. The Act is a

shield not a sword. But a shield is not m~ch use if it has a large hole in it. This Bill sets out to repair such a hole.

I pass now to the provisions of the Bill which has three main objectives. First, by clause 3 it is. proposed to insert a new section 3A In the Essential Services Act 1958. That section will authorize the Governor in Council to make a proclamation in anyone of three cases. They are-

1. If the opportunity of employees to be gainfully employed in their usual occupations is threatened by the action of any person or body.

2. If the health or safety of the public or any section of the public is threatened by any person or body.

3. If the maintenance of peace and good order in Victoria is threatened by any person or body.

When any such proclamation is in force, it will be an offence for anyone to lock-out or strike, to continue to lock-out or strike, or to incite to lock~ out or strike. This will be a very serious offence, and will be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months, or a fine of $1,000, or both. It has been suggested that these are severe penalties, and indeed they are, but under the New South Wales Act of 1949 provision is also made for a year's imprisonment.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-Will the Minister explain why it was necessary to deprive citizens of their right to trial by jury?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I am explaining the provisions of this Bill, and I have stated to the House that it contemplates a state of extreme emergency. Mr. Galbally may say that a citizen is deprived of the ordinary processes of law, but the offence still has to be proved.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-A stipendiary magistrate sitting alone could sentence a person to twelve months' imprisonment.


The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-That is right, and there is ample precedent for that. The second main change proposed by the Bill is to remove the existing provisions relating to secret ballots. Under the present law it is an offence to strike in an essential service without the strike having been approved by a majority of those entitled to vote. The new provision will not make it an offence to strike without a secret ballot being held, but it will authorize the Government to order a secret ballot to be held. The purpose of the new provision is to enable the Government to discover the true feelings of the strikers, to inform the minds of the public as to the situation, and to enable the Government to form a proper judgment in relation to what action should be taken under the essential services legislation.

The third group of amendments is of a technical nature, embracing definitions of "employee ", " employer ", "officer of a trade union", " strike ", "t,akes part", and "trade union ". By clause 6, provision is made to facilitate the taking of legal proceedings by the use of certificates and averments, but it should be noted that notice must be given to any defendant before any averment can be relied on. Jurisdiction for offenders under the Act is restricted to Courts of Petty Sessions constituted by stipendiary m'agistrates siUing alone, for which there is ample precedent.

I think the House will recognize that this is a most important measure. It has been brought forward because the Government has examined the protection that is available to the community and has found that the present Act is deficient in some respects. It is not intended to be provocative or to be a threat, but it is intended, if this House and this Parliament passes the Bill, to ensure that in the last resort and in the worst case the community has the ability and the right to go to work and earn a living and to carry out its ordinary avocations in a way we believe it has the right to expect. I commend the Bill to the House.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbourne North Province) .---It is rarely indeed that any Parliament has the opportunity of debating a measure to overthrow Parliament, but we have this opportunity to-night, for if this measure becomes law Parliament will be helpless. The laws will be wrecked and fires will be fanned that will lead to industrial disruption and dissent which later generations may fail to quell. The danger to the very life of our industrial community is a terrible one, and we must avert the folly of foolish men before it is too. late.

The arbitrary seizure of property and goods, the conscription of labour -to which I shall refer when I deal with the clauses of the Bill-and the power to direct citizens to work in the manner and fashion which only a tyrant would propose are now to be the arsenal of this Government. Where a citizen is unwise enough to resist, he is to be put away in durance vile without the constitutional protection of trial by jury. It is unthinkable that any Parliamentary Government would seek to revive such grizzly weapons, but this Bill is designed to do that.

Experience has taught those of us for whom liberty is still' a practical ideal to be most on guard whenever the Government's stated purposes are beneficent, as witness the statements to-night of the Minister, who said, in effect, "There is no need to be frightened of this Bill. We shall hardly ever use it. You can trust us. We shall ring the Trades Hall Couneil first. " The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachments by men of zeal, well meaning fellows who lack understanding. I hope I would have loved freedom at all times and in every age, but to-day when the indispensable virtues of free life stand in jeopardy, I am ready to worship it.

What is the background that led to this dangerous futility? The Government's impatience with the slow, clumsy machinery in the administration of arbitration and its functioning


is well known. The Federal Minister for Labour 'and National Service, Mr. Bury, has made bold and repeated attacks on the Commonwealth Arbitration Com'mission. Of course, there is no e~cellence per se in poverty. All employers are not high-handed and rapacious, any more than all poor men are virtuous. But we are living in an age of scepticism; the age of faith and the age of reason we have left behind. Many people refuse to accept the old doctrines and creeds without critical examination. There is a fear abroad that here in Victoria we have been worshipping false gods and leadership without merit. Of course, there was a time-there was an echo of it to-night-when all strikes were denounced as the work of communists, but it was a little hard last year to fit the Qantas pilots' dispute into that category.

There was indeed a shameful episode in our political history when it was sought to suppress communism by Act of Parliament. At the time this was a popular cry, but when the people of Australia saw the issues involved and that their liberties would be restrained, they rejected such an approach. They were wen meaning fellows in those days, working, as they put it, in the common weal. On every side to-day we see the withered leaves of spiritual and moral values. Look at the history of Victoria in the past ten years-the financial scandals which have rocked the nation. Did the Government come forward then with urgent measures 0'f this kind, giving it powers that no despot ever lacked? Not at all. Whenever separation is made between liberty and justice, in my opinion, neither is safe because liberty, not communism, is the most con tagious force in the world.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER.-That is what Captain Benson thought, too!

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-It is nice to hear from the Leader 0'f the House, who has been strangely silent. This Bill strangles liberty and denies justice. The only enterprise that will be left here if this measure goes

through Parliament will be the great enterprise under the leadership of the Government, a despotic Government, where no citizen will get a fair chance.

,I have :made s0'me bold statements about the encroachment of liberty. I shall take a few moments to describe them und.er the Bill. Proposed new section 3A of the principal Act caUs for examination. It commences-

Whereat any time it appears to the Governor in Council that any action has been taken or is likely to be taken-Honorable members should mark those words. Who can say what is likely? It is very difficult to forecast this even in the political scene. by any person or body of persons which is prejudicing or threatening or is likely to prejudice or threaten-



I suppose some dangerous motorist might be said to be likely t0' prejudice the safety of a section of the public. Armed with this provision, the Governor in Council can, by proclamation, declare that the security or welfare of the people of the State of Victoria is threatened. There is no application to a court, no recourse to Parliam.ent. The phrases are very wide. Who in the community would be safe in those circumstances, when all that has to be done to declare a state of emergency is to say that some action is likely to be taken to prejudice the health or safety 0'f any section of the c0'mmunity or the maintenance of peace and good order in Victoria?

The Minister has asserted that we can trust the Government with these powers. No Government worth trusting should ask for them. Certainly I am not prepared to trust this or any other Government with these powers. The Government is venturing into a domain where no Government should go. What happens when the state of emergency is declared? I direct the attention of the House to the wide


powers that are contained in sub-section (1) of section 5 of the principal Act. The Minister may provide, operate, control, regulate and direct any essential service, and so on. The Minister may employ, at not less than award rates, such persons in such numbers and on such terms as appear to him to be necessary for this purpose. This section goes on to provide-

Without limiting the generality of the foregoing provisions of this section the Minister may-

(a) direct what services shall be maintained and upon what terms and conditions they shall operate;

I ask honorable members to mark the following passage:-

(b) direct persons and bodies to operate and maintain services to the extent and upon the terms specified in the direction;' .

Is that not direction of labour? Then it provides-

(e) requisition the use of property of any kind-

It could be the house belonging to anyone of us or a factory-

which is used or may be used fur or in connexion with the operation or maintenance of any essential service;

These provisions enable the Government to conscript labour, . to direct labour, and to requisition property and commodities. I do not know of any Government in Australia that has had such wide powers, even in war time.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-It is in all the Acts in all the States.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-I do not propose to go through all the Acts in all the other States to-night. I simply answer the interjection by saying that none of the States has the powers set out in this Billwhere a state of emergency can be declared by the Government at any time by a mere stroke of the pen. That is not liberty. By inserting these harsh and coercive provisions into the Act this Bill is taking liberty away. My colleague, Mr. Merrifield, reminds me that in 1903, during the railway

strike, a Government in Victoria introduced a Bill known as the Coercion Bill, which forbade members working in the railways-I think they were locomotive drivers-to belong to the Trades Hall Council. History has an unhappy knack of repeating itself. What is to be gained by these drastic provisions? By what alchemy will this measure save us? The Government's Bill brings not peace but a sword, for the humblest citizen when clad in the armour of a righteous cause is stronger than all the hosts of error.

The measure, of course, has superficial attractiveness. I have no doubt that some people in the community think, "What is wrong with it? We do not like strikes; they are unpleasant things ", and nobody wants industrial unrest. Such people up to date quite naturally and obviously have not had the opportunity of finding out the details of the measure. The more one thinks about it the more repugnant it becomes.

The Bill is put forward as an emergency measure, and it has been stated on behalf of the Government that it should be passed through Parliament at once. I remind the House of these words which epitomize the words of the advocates of this measure-

And be these juggling friends no more believed,

That palter with us in a double sense, That keep the word of promise to our ear, And break it to our hope.

In the settlement of industrial disputes, coercion never wins more than co-operation. On the other hand, many people in Victoria will sleep better to-night when this Bill-as I hope it will be-is rejected. No doubt many of them have argued with the Premier that this is going toO' far, that it will accomplish nothing. Good shepherd that he is, he should remember that the part of a good shepherd is to shear his flock and not flay it. The Premier should not flay the community. But, Mr. President, there is no arguing with the Premier, for when his pistol misfires he knocks one down with the butt end of it.


I trust that the House will safeguard the rights and liberties of the citizens of Victoria and that it will reject this measure. With that in mind I move-

That all the words after the word" That" be omitted with the view of inserting in place thereof "this House rejects this Bill utterly and completely as its inclusion in the statute-book would enable the Executive Government to exercise an unwarranted and intolerable interference in the traditional and inherent rights of the citizens of Victoria ".

The Hon. SAMUEL MERRIFIELD, (Doutta Galla Province) .-1 second the motion.

Sir PERCY BYRNES (NorthWestern Province) .-Mr. President, I propose to refer to newspaper files, and with your permission 1 shall make use of the table that has been provided for me. I have not had time to study Mr. Galbally's amendment, but I and my colleagues will do so during the suspension of the sitting for dinner. The House has been called upon to discuss amendments proposed to be made to legislation passed by this Parliament on 15th and 16th January, 1948-a considerable time ago. The proposed amendments are brought before Parliament because the Government is not satisfied that the existing legislation covers the position in the community to-day.

In the Sun News-Pictorial of 7th March, the Premier is reported as having stated that when the Essential Services Act was passed the Country Party was far more determined to use its provisions than the Liberal Party ever was. Looking back over the intervening period of time, I think that the Premier's statement is hardly correct. Extraordinary circumstances existed in the years 1947 and 1948. A far different atmosphere prevailed then than is the case to-day. At that time, the composite HollwayMcDonald Government was in office and I was one of the Country Party Ministers in that Administration, which assumed office in November, 1947. At that time, there was a series of crippling and continuous strikes.

The feelings then current are now hard to realize unless one looks at old newspaper files and that is why I have brought some into the Chamber to-day.

The Government at that time decided that it was necessary for legislation relating to essential services to be enacted by Parliament, and the relevant Bill was brought in on 15th January, 1948. It was duly passed by both Houses, but it was not proclaimed until very much later in the year. Having made up their minds, members of the Country Party did not follow the trend of members of the Liberal Party who blew hot and cold, and as the year went on some members, particularly the Premier of the day, was afflicted with a very violent attack of cold feet. I am sure that the present Premier, when making speeches in the Western Province shortly, will make some remarks about the Country Party. He may accuse members of that Country Party of many things, but he cannot validly accuse them of having cold feet.

It is my firm opinion that so drastic is the Essential Services Act now that if it is further strengthened it will never be put into operation. 1 do not know how many members of the House have studied the original Act. As incorporated in the consolidated statutes, it is slightly different from the Act as approved by Parliament, but only as regards the numbering of sections. Subsection (l) of section 4, which is the basis of the legislation, provides-

Where at any time it appears to the Governor in Council that any action has been taken or is immediately threatened by any persons or body of persons whereby any essential service is or is likely to be interrupted or dislocated the Governor in Council may ~)y proclamation published in the Government Gazette (in this Act referred to as a proclamation of emergency) declare that a state of emergency exists in relation to that service.

That is the strength of the Act, and there is a wide difference between that and the amendments proposed by the Bill.. How drastic are the


provisions of the Act? They are so wide and drastic that normally they would be exercised by a Government only in a period of war or in a time of extreme national emergency. It was on that ground only that the Country Party agreed to have this legislation placed on the statutebook. In those extraordinary times there was a state of emergency, but such a situation does not exist to-day. Even if one did exist, in spite of the statements made by the Minister for Local Government I maintain that section 4 would cover any exigencies likely to arise with regard to any dislocation or interruption of essential services.

The strength of the Act and the safeguards provided to the public reside in the section that provides that a state of emergency must be declared. If the Government were s,atisfied that a state 'Of emergency existed in Victoria, it could invoke the Act. It is the intention of the Government under section 11 to proclaim that the State Electricity Commission is an essential service and to bring into operation all the provisions of the legislation which authorizes the Govel'1nment to do many things.

I put it to you, Mr. President, that if any section of people in an industry were to hold a series of one-day strikes which interrupted or dislocated industry and caused all manner of trouble, the Government, if it thought it was necessary, could declare a state of emergency. The Essential Services Act has never been tried. The Government of which I was a member proclaimed it, but did not bring the provisions into operation until several months later.

The existing Essential Services Act is so extremely drastic that I cannot conceive of Parliament increasing the penalties provided for a breach of it or widening its scope to any great extent. Its already very wide provisions could cause a great deal of trouble.

Sir Percy Byrnes.

Let us consider the amending Bill. Clause 3 provides, inter alia, that at the end of section 3 of the principal Act there shall be inserted the following section:-

3A. (1) Where at any time it appears to the Governor in Council that any action has been taken or is likely to be taken by any person or body or persons which is prejudicing or threatening or is likely to prejudice or threaten-

(a) the opportunity of ,employees (other than those by whom the action has been taken or is likely to be taken) to be gainfully employed in their usual occupations; or



the Governor in Council may by a proclamation to that effect (in this section called a "proclamation as to the securi-ty or welfare of the State") published in the Government Gazette declare that such action is prejudicing or threatening or is likely to prejudice or threaten the security or welfare of the people of the State of Victoria. No mention is made of the declaration of a state of emergency. The provision is extremely wide; in fact, it could affect any section of the Public Service, and almost ·any section of employees could be covered by it. Sub-section (6) of proposed new section 3A provides-

Any person who while a proclamation as to the security or welfare of the State under this section is in force takes part in or continues or incites urges aids or encourages the taking part in or continuance ofa lock-out or strike in or in relation to the action or actions referred to in such a proclamation or who does any act that he is forbidden to do or omits to do any act that he required to do in or in relation to his employment in any essential service or any public service provided by the State shall be guilty of an offence and liable to be imprisoned for a term of not more than one year or to a penalty of not more than $1,000 or to both such imprisonment and penalty. This is to be read in conjunction with clause 5, which relates to aiding and abetting. It amends section 15 of the principal Act, sub-section (2) of which provides-

Every person or body who or which aids abets incites counsels or procures or is in any way directly or indirectly knowingly concerned in the commission of any offence against this Act shall be deemed to have committed that offence and shall be punishable accordingly.


Clause 5 of this a'mending BiB inserts in sub-sectian (2) af sectian 15 af the principal Act after the ward " Act", the wards " (whether such offence is proved to' have been cammitted ar not.) ". In ather wards, a persan daes nat have to' be tried. Any ane, perhaps the Minister, can say that he is guilty. That is why Cauntry Party members abject to' this Bill. It can be said that we are voting with the Labar Party ar with any ather party, but the fact is that we cannat vate far this measure.

This Bill is gaing taO' far. A Parliament that would place an the statute-baak legislatian as prapased by this amending Bill wauld act wrangly an behalf O'f the peaple. Sir Henry Balte has said, "I will cansult with the Trades Hall Cauncil befare the legislation is invaked". Such a cansultatian wauld be worth gaing to' see; in these days O'f televisian it shauld be televised. The dial ague wauld be like this: Sir Henry Balte wauld say to' Mr. Jordan, "What are you gaing to' dO', Mick? We are gaing to' bring this in." Mick wauld say, "O.K. Henry," and they wauld gO' acrass the raad far a beer.

When the principal Act was enacted, there were many strikes in the community. I realize that everyane is justifiably incensed and irritated when ane-day strikes take place, and nO' daubt it is cansidered that some actian should be taken to' prevent them. But that daes nat justify the extreme action praposed in this BillJ and the Cauntry Party cannat accept it. The principal Act is sufficient far all purpases. Haw cauld the Act be implemented? Perhaps 500 to' 4,000 men may gO' an strike. Can anyane imagine the Gavernment instituting prasecutians against 4,000 men and thase men being fined up to' $1,000 each ar sent to' gaal far twelve manths? These peaple cauld nat affard to pay, and a concentration camp would have to be established to hald them. The gaO' Is cauld nat accammadate them. It wauld be like the

Battle of lVIessines in the first world war. I reeall that during that battle the Allies did nat expect to' take prisaners, but they had to' take 10,000 af them. These prisoners were placed in barbed wire campaunds and were given some bully beef.

It would be ludicrous to' say that 4,000 men cauld be fined $1,000 each ar sent to' gaal. Parliament wauld be made a laughing stack. It wauld be dangeraus to' enact this amending legislatian because, at same time in the future, there may be in affice a Government bad enaugh to' use it. It is unwise to' place an the statute-baok legislatian which, in the hands af an extremist Gavernment, cauld endanger the rights af citizens.

The industrial atmosphere in 1947 and 1948 was .far different from what it is ta-day. I shall nat weary the Hause by reading lengthy extracts fram the newspapers of those times. In its editorials the Age newspaper did nat criticize the Essential Services Act but, in fact, it commended the Gavernment far what it did under extreme pravaoatian. There were bread, gas, shipping, tram and rail strikes-in fact there were strikes in every passible sphere ane cauld think af. HO'usewives were allawed the use of gas far anly ane haurat midday and ane hour in the evening if they were lucky. The tramways strike lasted far twelve days, nO't one day. It w·as an the 15th January, 1948, during the tramways strike that the Government deC'ided to' pass what is naw the principal Act, ,and the tramways unian resumed wark the next day. That might 0'1' might nat have been a ca-incidence. The Act was praclaimed but nat invaked.

Later, 1\1r. Hallway, the then Premier, went to' Landan on business, and in Octaber and N avember of that year there was a further succession af strikes. After much discussion, the Government decided to procla-im the Essential Services Act and t'ake action. The tramways and the railways unians decided that they wauld canduct a 24-haur stappage.

3528 Essential Services LCOUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

The Age newspaper of Wednesday, 17th November, 1948, carried the headline, " Trades Hall Disowns Striking Transport Unions". The Trades Hall Council 'also criticized the Government for bringing in the Essential Services Act. Meetings were held by branches of the Australian Railw·ays Union, ,and they refused to accept the direction of their militant leaders. A meeting of 500 members at headquarters and another meeting of 250 members somewhere else passed a resolution objecting to having to go out on strike without being given the opportunity to vote on the question.

In those years strikes were largely political, and many of the key unions were dominated by known communists. In fact, many strikes were communist-inspired and did not have the full support of all members of the unions. The Essential Services Act provided that stringent action would be taken if a strike took place without a secret ballot being conducted, but that if a secret baHot was taken and the decision was made to take strike action, the Government would take no action under the Act. The Governor in Council w,as empowered to take the necessary steps to conduct a secret ballot.

In 1948 there was great trouble in getting ships to transport coal. When the Government decided to implement the principal Act to take action against the union leaders who ordered the tramways and railways strikes, there appeared in the Age newspaper of Friday, 19th November, 1948, the heading, "Dislocation of Victorian Shipping. Seamen's letter to Acting Premier." The article said-

The threat of the Seamen's Union to blockade all Victorian ports if the State Government prosecuted trade union officials who were involved in Wednesday's 24-hour stoppage was made in a letter sent yesterday to the Acting Premier (Mr. McDonald) by the Secretary of the Seamen's Union (Mr. Bird).

The letter to the Acting Premier stated-

The Federal executive of this organization has considered the threatened action by your Cabinet to prosecute the officials of

Sir Percy Byrnes.

trade unions which participated in yesterday's 24-hour stoppage. If your Cabinet continues with its proposed action, the Federal executive of our union will immediately declare a complete blockade on all Victorian ports. We remind you that it is your responsibility whether or not this drastic action is taken. It was signed by "W. Bird, Secretary". Many British admirals became famous for their successful blockades of French and Dutch ports. The Government was faced with a letter from Mr. Bird, and confirmed by the Federal Secretary of the Seamen's Union, Mr. Elliott, that the union would blockade Victorian ports. Could any responsible Government, no matter of what political colour, allow such action? The Government had to go forward or crawl on its knees to Mr. Bird or Mr. Elliott.

I could quote further extracts from the newspapers of those days to show that the Government was in good company. The Prime Minister of the day, Mr. Chifley, said that the coal stoppage in New South Wales was the most disgusting strike he had ever known and that it was contrary to the best union principles. The Labor Government in the Federal sphere was not prepared to be run over by strikes in the key unions which were organized by communists. The Seamen's Union said that it would blockade Victoria by not permitting coal ships to come into the State, and the Government answered the challenge.


Sir PERCY BYRNES.-Before the suspension of the sitting, I was attempting briefly to recreate the atmosphere of the strikes which occurred in 1948 when the composite Liberal-Country Party Government was in power, and when the original Act was passed. I mentioned some of the headlines which appeared in the daily newspapers in relation to the various strikes which occurred-in the bread industry, the gas industry, on the waterfront, and in transport. The Government had


to do some extraordinary things in order to keep the wheels of industry turning. I t was an extraordinary year, and, of course, it ended with the composite Government going out of existence. It was, inevitable that the two wings of Government-tHe Liberal Party and the Country Party-should fail to see eye to eye at some time during the course of the proceedings. The Honorable T. T. Hollway, the then Premier, was in England when many of the strikes occurred.

Earlier, I directed attention to an article in the Age newspaper which showed how the Seamen's Union openly and blatantly declared a stoppage in every port in Victoria. I also referred to the fact that the majority of members of the Trades Hall Council did not support the class of strike that was taking place but that they could not control the situation. Meetings were held by members of the railways union, and resolutions were passed condemning the executive of the union for forcing a 24-hour strike upon members. This incident followed a number of more serious strikes. The members of the union contended that they should have had an opportunity of voting on the decision. There was clearly a serious division of opinion amongst the unionists themselves as to the type of strike which was occurring and disrupting the economy of the State.

I do not think it can be said that that stage has been reached to-day. Although the stoppage in the State Electricity Commission was serious enough and caused a good deal of inconvenience and loss, and possibly some suffering in some sections of the community, it was a strike by a small number of men who were almost crackpots to think they could achieve a victory by taking such action. By this means they could only harden public opinion against them. I do not think any action taken up to date justifies the Government in amending the legisla tion as proposed. The

original Act could be proclaimed if circumstances arose which made that necessary. If communist-led unions, or extremist-led unions-or organizations of any kind, for that matterare taking control of the country to the detriment of the citizens and the welfare of the State, the Act empowers the Government to declare a state of emergency. The Act makes provision for the taking of steps which are so drastic that its provisions have never been used.

In 1948:. the composite Government declared shipping coming into Victorian ports to be an essential service, and it set out to prosecute the secretary of the Seamen's Union and other persons who were inciting the strike. However, it was found that evidence was diffieult to obtain. Although the Government did obtain some evidence, or could have obtained it, it was thought desirable to make some amendments to the law. At that stage the Government did not consider making amendments such as those proposed in this Bill, which provides that, whether an offence is proved to have been committed or not, a person may be found guilty of an offence. Such a state of affairs would be justified only in an extreme emergency such as a state of war, and not in peace time or when what really amounts to irritation strikes occur. The stoppages which have occurred recently have not reached anything like the seriousness of the strikes that occurred in 1947 and 1948.

Members of the Country Party, with full knowledge of what happened in the past, believe that this Bill is a bad proposal. We consider that the principal Act provides the Government with all necessary power to meet the existing situation. It is wrong to put this type of legislation on the statute-book because, once passed, it is there for all time. Members of the Country Party intend to vote against the Bill.


Mr. Galbally has moved an amendment, which I have carefully considered. I am satisfied that the amendment, if carried, will completely block the Bill. Under the forms of the House, when the vote is taken on the second-reading motion the question is: "That this Bill be now read a second time." It has been decided, in this stormy Chamber, that the vote is taken on the word " now ". If the motion for the second reading of the Bill is defeated, it is possible for the Bill to be brought back at any time thereafter. Therefore, although members of the Country Party would ordinarily vote against the second-reading motion, having given the matter mature consideration, we intend to vote in favour of Mr. Galbally's amendment, because it will effectively block the Bill. The taking of this step will remove any possibility that we will be called back from taking part in the Western Province by-election campaign, when no doubt the Premier and other Ministers will be praising members of the Country Party. We should prefer to be present on those occasions and to hear what they have to say. For the reasons I have stated, members of the Country p.arty will vote -against the Bill.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL (Monash Province) .-1 have listened with interest to the customary volubility of Mr. Galbally and the customary rusticity of Sir Percy Byrnes, but so far I have found very little substance in the cases they have advanced. I admit that I agree with some of Mr. Galbally's arguments. In this Bill, as in the 1948 Act, we are forging what could be a terrible weapon in the hands of a future unscrupulous person. We have to consider why we must forge this weapon and why we must trust to the goodwill of anyone who in the future may be called upon to use it.

I have news for Sir Percy Byrnes. If my memory serves me correctly, he stated that the 1948 measure was introduced and passed, with the full support of the Country Party,

because of the communist influences and leadership in the then series of strikes. Sir Percy claimed that the situation then was vastly different from that which exists to-day. I agree with Sir Percy on that point; the situation is vastly different in this respect, that the tactics and plans adopted to-day by the communists are vastly different from those they adopted in 1948. At that time the technique of the short quick strike and the rolling strike had not been developed; and I suggest to the Leader of the Country Party that under the .circumstances of the rapid, short rolling strikes the provisions of the 1948 Act are not effective.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE.-Who are you talking about?

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-My leftwing friends.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE.-Name them.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-My leftwing friends.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE.-You are full of phrases.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-My communist friends.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE (SouthEastern Province).-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. I find the term used by Mr. Nicol insulting to me and to the party that I have the honour to represent. I ask that he be required to withdraw the remark.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-I support the point of order. I regard the term used as being very undesirable, and I am sure that, objection having been taken, Mr. Nicol will withdraw it.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL (Monash Province).-If the truth is so hurtful, Mr. President, I withdraw it.

The Ho.n. A. W. KNIGHT (Melbourne West Province).-On the point of order, Mr. President, I ask Mr. Nicol to withdraw without qualification the statement that he made.


The PRESIDENT.-I ask Mr. Nicol to withdraw without qualification.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL (Monash Prov,ince).-With respect to you, Sir, I certainly withdraw.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Melbourne West Province ).-Is that not a qualification? Mr. President, I raise another point of order. Mr. Nicol has not withdrawn without qualification.

The PRESIDENT .-1 am certain that that is agreed and assumed.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL (Monash Province).-I was pointing out to our good friends in the Country Party corner that, although they say that lin 1948 certain conditions existed which do not exist to-day, those condit,ions do in fact exist to-day, and I do not think that even members of the Labor Party will deny this. In considering the necessity for this Bill, one must get to the root causes of the trouble. It ,is of no earthly use saying that the root causes are of an economic nature. Admittedly, there are economic aspects of the strikes, but my friends on the opposite side of the House know just as well ·as I-or perhaps better-that it is a long-range plan 'Of the communists in Australia to take what may originally have been an economic cause and an 'economic strike and turn it into a political strike.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.-Are you saying that members of the Municipal Officers' Association are communists?

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-I did not say that members of the Municipal Officers' Association are communists.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBuRy.-That is what you are implying.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-That is wha t I am implying, if you like. If you want this straight from the shoulder, I shall give it to you.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.-Why not be frank and say it straight out?

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-Order! Mr. Nicol should address the Chair.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-I beg your pardon, IVlr. President. Will members of the Opposition, including Mr. Bradbury:. deny that a certain Mr. Flynn, who lis -a leader of the Municipal Officers' Association lin the M'Orwell, area is a communist?

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.-YOU say that because of one man?

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-Yes, he is one man, and he is the leader of the particular section in the Latrobe Valley.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-I will deny it.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-Would Mr. Knight deny that Mr. Flynn, on his own ·admission, was a member of the Comrnunist Party in 1964?

Sir PERCY BYRNEs.-He still could be.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURy.-Because of one man, you accuse the lot.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-He still could be a member; in all probability, he is. Will Mr. Bradbury deny that this is a communist-inspired strike?

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE.-Who is Mr. Flynn?

The Hem. G. J. NICOL.-He is the leading spirit in the Municipal Officers' Association in the Morwell area. Members of the Labor Party know as well as I that it is the current aim of the Comrnunist Party, as it has been for a long time past, to gain control of the Labor movement. I do not think that can be denied. A number of unions have either voluntarily disaffiliated or have been disaffiliated from the Trades Hall Council; and it is interesting to note that thirteen of the 26 personnel who comprise the Australian Labor Party executive in this State are either self-confessed communists or have a history of continuous support of the communists.

The Hon. J. M. WALToN.-That is a lot of rubbish.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-I expected a reaction of this sort from certain members of the Opposition.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT.-YOU are a complete liar.


The Hon. G. W. THOM (SouthWestern Province) .-1 rise to a point of order, Mr. President, and ask for a withdrawal of that remark by Mr. Elliot.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-I did not quite hear the remark. I do not know whether it was " lies" or " you are a liar".

The Hon G. W. THOM.-It was " liar ", Mr. President.

The PRESIDENT.-That ,is unparliamentary language. I ask Mr. Elliot to withdraw it.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT.-I withdraw.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL (Monash Province).-I thank Mr. Thorn ·for his interruption, but I assure you, Mr. President, that such a rem'ark coming from Mr. Elliot has no effect whatever on me.

The PRESIDENT.-I appreciate that what Mr. Nicol has been saying is in support of his remarks on the Bill.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-It is, Sir. The PRESIDENT.-I do not think

the lead-up to the main question before the House should be too long. Mr. Nicol's comments should relate to the Bill.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-With the greatest respect, Sir, I am endeavouring to explain the basic reasons for the introduction of the legislation.

The PRESIDENT.-I ask Mr. Nicol not to carryon too long on that aspect. I would appreciate comments directly on the Bill.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-As I have said, Mr. President, we cannot con.sider this Bill unless we fully understand the reasons behind it. It should be appreciated that these strikes are part of the over-all, long-range communist plan for gaining control of the trade union movement. My friends opposite appreciate this better than I. The fact is that these strikes are not economic; they are being made political. It is most interesting to note that the so-called blue-collar workers at Yallourn are claiming

$7.20 extra per week in accordance with the recent decision of the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission, and that, although this communistled union is claiming that amount· from the State Electricity Comm'ission, it has settled with the capitalists, the private industrialists, for something of the order of $5. This should indicate that the whole basis of these stf'ikes is political rather than industrial and while, undoubtedly, there is an industrial and economic element in it, this is being subverted by the communists to their own particular cause.

My reason for leading up to the question in this manner is to show that when there is a dreadful threat, it is probably necessary to use a dreadful weapon in defence. I do not believe that any member of my party likes this measure or likes the thought of having to enact legislation such as this, but when there is a grave threat to the liberty of the great majority of the community, and there is need to protect them against that threat, the Government has a responsibility to provide such protection.

Mr. Galbally made reference to a despotic Government, but it may well be that we are faced with a choice between a despotic Government and a despotic movement outside of the Government; of the two, I prefer a despotic Government because it is subject to some ,control by the Parliament.

The Hon. M. A. CLARK'E.-Not this despotic Government.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-Mr. Clarke and his colleagues remind me of bucolic Micawbers just waiting for something to turn down.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.-You are waiting for something to turn up.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-If there is one thing I can feel completely assured about, it is that my bucolic friends opposite will never turn up trumps.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.-Wait and see.


The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-We do not need to wait and see.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.-That is all you are waiting for.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-I invite Mr. Nicol to continue his speech on the Bill.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-Mr. Galbally said that it was not possible to suppress communism by an Act of Parliament, but this Bill is aimed at suppressing not communism but some of the overt acts of the communists. So far as a philosophy is concerned, I agree with Mr. Galbally; I should be completely opposed to any legislation which endeavours to suppress a philosophy. However, I must support legislation that provides the weapon with which to fight the overt acts of communism, which is probably the greatest enemy that this country or the world has ever known. I regret the necessity for a Bill such as this and the fact that I have to support it but, as I cannot see any other answer, I do support it.

.The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) .-1 support the case put forward by the Leader of the Country Party in opposition to the Bill. I do not intend to go off at tangents with regard to philosophies, and so forth, as did Mr. Nicol, but I should like to point out to him that the people he was condemning were good enough to hand out Liberal Party how-tovote cards at the last State election. I am amazed to hear him condemn them in this House to-night.

There are some principles in this Bill to which ·members of the Country Party strongly object. I fully support my Leader's opening remarks when he said that we stand by the 1948 Act, which was introduced because of certain circumstances that arose at the time. However, the Country Party does not believe that the original Act should be amended when it has not been tried and found wanting.

The Country Party crosses swords with the Government on two fundamental pr.inciples. First, it is proposed to insert into the principal Act a new section 3A and still retain section 4, which is unprecedented in any Act of this State. I take it that the Government wants to be able to approach the problem in two ways. Under proposed section 3A it will be possible to proclaim 'a state of emergency and then to act upon the following provisions, including clause 5, which contains the second principle on which we cross swords with the Government, and under which it is not necessary to prove whether or not a person is guilty, or whether or not the section applies.

I have read proposed section 18, as contained in clause 6 of the Bill, at least a dozen t,ime's and, quite frankly, I am not sure what 'it means, but I have been advised by some legal friends that the provisions are very dangerous. When proposed section 18 is read in conjunction with section 3A, it is obvious that this Government, or some future Government, willI be given powers which members of the Country Party believe go beyond the fundamental principles of democracy.

Those are the issues on which the Country P'arty parts company with the Government on this Bill. The principal Act provides for the observance of certain procedures before persons can be found guilty of offences, but under the terms of this Bill, it is only necessary to proclaim that a sta.te of emergency exists.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-How do you deal with these rolling strikes?

The Hem. I. A. SWINBURNE.With Sir Percy Byrnes ·and Mr. Chandler, I am one of three members of this House who were present when the original measure was considered. From memory, the same problems existed ·at that time-there was a series of rolling strikes.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-The technique had not been developed then.


The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-I am afraid that Mr. Nicol has not read his history well, because 'most of the strikes in 1946, 1947 'and 1948, and extending until the early 1950's, were one-day strikes ; in some cases they were .of a week's duration ·and some lasted a fortnight or longer. It is wrong to suggest that it is an innovation for sections of an industry toO go out on strike because, for ,as long as I can remember, sections of 'an industry have at times ceased work. For instance, in the railways there have been individual stroikes by guards, engine drivers, varoious track men, and engineers, and all of these strikes have 'crippled the transport industry because it could not function without the section concerned. For him to suggest tha t this is something new indicates that Mr. Nicol ought to study the history of strikes and disruptions which have occurred in this State.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-You ought to bring your history up to date.

The H.on. I. A. SWINBURNE.-I know what has happened over the past 22 years, and probably for some period before that. Mr. Nicol ought to be factual when he debates problems which are important to the industrial life of this State. This State has gone a loQng way since the original Act ,was enacted. Whilst the conciliation and arbitration procedures may not meet all the needs, advances have been made -in the past tw.enty years. It would be a retrograde step and a tragedy to returon to the times ,when the late Mr. Chifley, then Prime Minister of Australia, m'ade the st'atement which was quoted by Sir Per,cy Byrnes.

Mr. Galbally has moved an amendment which, ,in his view, will prevent the Government from re-introducing this measure, as we know it :can do under the existing procedures of the House. The Country Party intends to ,support the amendment because this Bill should be put .out of the picture. If some future Government feels there is a need for the amendments contained ,in this Bill and it has the numbers, it will put the Bill

through Parliament. For reasons I have outlined, the Country Party proposes toO vote against the pass1age of the Bill.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL (East Yarra Province).-The only ground on which I agree with the Opposition and the Country Party is Sir Percy Byrnes's demonstration to the House of the urgent need for essential services within the Chamber-I refer to the table which has been supplied for his use to-night. In all other respects, I disagree with the arguments submitted by them. Sir Percy Byrnes commented that the principal legislation was introduced in 1948 as an urgent measure because of the industrial problems then existing. It is interesting to note that the Bill was not proclaimed until some eighteen months later.

Sir PERCY BYRNEs.-That is wrong. The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-It

was some months before the Bill was -in fact proclaimed.

Sir PERCY BYRNES.-The Act was proclaimed on the 20th January as an Act, and it was prooclaimed as a measure within the Act on 15th November.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-The important point is that the Act itself was not used immediately, but that the Bill was introduced into both Houses of Parliament as an urgent measure so that, if necesnary, it could be used.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURy.-There has been a period of twenty years in which to us'e it.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.This -is precisely why the Government has introoduced this amending Bill at this stage. I think it is fair to examine some of the reasons why the Government feels this measure should be passed. In the speech by Sir Alfred Deakin when the Conciliation and Arbitration Bill was introduced into the Commonwealth Parliament, one finds this comment-

It may happen that in some countries in which the law favours the interests of the employers, it would be resisted by that section of the community, while in others, as conceivably in the case of New York,


it would be resisted by the employees. But this measure is aimed just as much at the existence of such a condition of things as that to which the article alludes-a condition created by the tyranny of trades unionsas it is to cope with the tyranny of employers. Its object is to forbid tyranny on both sides, and as far as may be possible, to introduce into our industrial system a new standard which shall apply to all the persons concerned, subject to the interests of the whole. I feel that those last words are of prime importance in considering the measure before the House.

This point refers me back to a comment made by Sir Percy Byrnes with regard to section 4 of the Act which provides, inter alia-

(1) Where at any time it. appears to the Governor in Council that any action has been taken or is immediately threatened by any persons or body of persons whereby any essential service is or is likely to be interrupted or dislocated. . . .

When one refers to the words of Sir Alfred Deakin, "subject to the interests of the whole", it can clearly be seen that the interests of the community must also be considered when problems of this nature arise. I consider that any responsible Government must prepare itself and have this legislation on the statute-book so that, in the event of an emergency, the Act ean be implemented.

Paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of proposed new section 3A is in keeping with one of the main principles of the arbitration system in this country. It relates to any action taken or likely to be taken which may prejudice or threaten-

(a) the opportunity of employees (other than those by whom the action has been taken or is likely to be taken) to be gainfully employed in their usual occupations ...

Paragraph (c) refers to the maintenance of peace and good order in Victoria. I disagree with Sir Percy Byrnes that the present Act is sufficiently strong to deal with one-day strikes such as we have experienced and which we may experience again in the future because, if some essential services are maintained in the community, it is difficult to implement the Act in its present form because of the restriction.

Sir PERCY BYRNES.-You mean if they maintain essential services in part?

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.That is so.

Sir PERCY BYRN'ES.-The principal Act covers the interruption to or dislocation of the existing services.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-The Government feels that the present Act is not tight enough to meet these types of stoppages. It is also of interest to note that a great deal of emphasis has been placed on the fact that this Bill is pointed only at the trade unions. This is not so, because it is also pointed towards employers.

Sir PERCY BYRNES.-That is true. The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-I

thank Sir Percy Byrnes for agreeing with lme. In his second-reading speech the Minister for Local Government referred to the transport system in this State. This reminded me of the petrol transport strike which occurred in July of last year. An examination of the newspapers of tha t time reveals the second reason why the Government considers that legislation of this nature is necessary. If this Bill is passed, when trouble of this sort occurs in the future, something can be done there and then without having to wait for amending legislation.

I refer honorable members to the Herald of 21st July, 1967, in which it is stated that Mr. T. J. Doyle, the State secretary of the Transport Workers' Union, was addressing 400 members of his union at the Williamstown Town Hall. During his address Mr. Doyle :made this bold statement-

You are holding this country in the cup of your hancl.

I do not know how a man who is supported by only 400 of Victoria's total popUlation of 3,000,000 can consider himself a true citizen of this State and Inake such a statement. Of course, nOi responsible Government could tolerate such a state of affairs.


The Hon. G. J. NICOL.-Is Mr. Doyle a communist?

The Han. W. M. CA'MPBELL.---'I do not know, but it is a strange statement for a true Australian to make. I do not think any man who has only 400 supporters out of a total population of 3,000,000 should make such a statement. A further statement by Mr. Doyle should interest Mr. Galbally. He said that he did not know when a meeting with the employers would be convened, but the sooner it was called the better. However, he hoped that it would not be on the following day because he wanted to watch the Collingwood football team play. During a transport crisis Mr. Doyle was not concerned about having the State in the cup of his hand and hoping that an urgent meeting would be called in an endeavour to rectify the problem and bring back a good transport system-his concern was interference with his Saturday afternoon game of football.

In the column next to the article to which I have been referring there is a passage headed, "It Was Just Like the Tiv" by Colin Duck. Mr. Doyle, whom members of the Opposition are virtually supporting this evening, when speaking to his band of 400 followers made these comments-

The big oil men asked permission to send oil to various establishments for humanitarian purposes.

First there were the schools. They said the school children would freeze

to death.

This was in July. Mr. Doyle then said-

I suggested more skipping rope.

That is a wonderful solution to the problem.

The next heart rending story came from the prisons.

We asked whether it would go towards heating the cells.

We found out most of the oil would be used for cooking and the laundry.

It looks as though they are going to eat cold meals in the calabooses.

This must have been a tremendous Tivoli performance.

They asked about the fire brigade. We had to agree with that-the Trades

Hall might have caught fire. This supposedly responsible man was urging people to disrupt the essential services of this State. It is fair to say that the Government respects the work that is being done by the honest trade union leaders who over the past 30 years, thro~gh conciliation and arbitration, have brought tremendous advantages to the work force of this State. I have mentioned in this House before that 30 years ago there was no annual leave for employees. In this period of time wag~s of. trades~en have increased possIbly SIxfold, SIck leave benefits have been extended, superannuation schemes. have been introduced and long serVIce leave has been granted. All of these have been acquired not by strikes but by conciliation and arbitration-a system which was set up in this country in 1904.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-We have heard Mr. Campbell's views on equal pay.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-We certainly did not hear Mr. Galbally speak on this Bill to-night. His only comment which was relevant was on section 5 of the principal Act. His speech had nothing to do with the amendments before the House. It is unusual for the Leader of a party, when speaking to the motion for the second reading of a Bill, to refer only to the principal Act and to make no reference to the amendments before the House.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-Mr. Campbell said that he did not hear me to-night.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-I did not hear Mr. Galbally speak on the Bill.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-I thought Mr. Campbell was going to speak about clause 5.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-Mr. Galbally dealt with section 5 of the


principal Act, which has nothing to do with the Bill. I have already referred honorable members to the Tivoli-type show put up by Mr. Doyle, but Mr. Galbally on his performance this evening could possibly get top billing at the Moscow Circus.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLy.-That is if the Government has not banned it under this legislation.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-The Moscow Circus is also situated on the bank of the Yarra river.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-Better men than I have spoken on the Yarra bank.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL."You can say that again! " Much has been said about the severity of the punishment which can be inflicted under this Bill, and I am sure that honorable members have read the article which appeared in Saturday's Age and in which it was stated that two Judges of the Industrial Court quite clearly pointed out that the existing penalty of $1,000 was inadequate. That article states that strikers from the State Electricity Commission were told a fine of $1,000 was too little.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE.-That was for a union, not for individuals.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-I am aware of that, but I am not talking about individuals. Two of the three Judges declared that under the circumstances that existed concerning these two one-day strikes the unions should have been fined a far greater amount than they were, having regard to their irresponsibility and to the inconvenience that they caused people of this State. This legislation has been brought before the House by the Government with the thought in mind that if such stoppages should continue to disrupt the industrial activities of this State, action can be taken against those responsible. A one-day strike can put out of work 250,000 people who have nothing to' do with the strike. When such

a situation exists it is the duty of any responsible Government to ensure that irresponsible union leaders are brought before the court. Legislation of this type is necessary not only to preserve the essential services of this State but also to maintain the goodwill which has been created by responsible trade union leaders in this State over the past 30 or 40 years. I support the Bill.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (SouthEastern Province) .-Back in 1948 when the Essential Services Act was passed, I was a member of the Fuel and Fodder Union shovelling coal on the wharves. I participated in a day's strike at that time. I did not have a vote on the matter, and had no choice but to participate. However, I enjoyed the experience of having a day off and of seeing how union machinery worked.

Mr. Swinburne raised an interesting point concerning the difference between the history of those times and the present day. It is true that to-day partly because of the original Essential Services Act of 1948, there is a much more sophisticated machinery of strikes. The technique of strikes as we know them to-day was not developed to this extent in those days. Then, as has been explained, the gas went off for a whole or for almost a whole day, but to-day essential services are not completely cut off. In the recent State Electricity Commission strike, power was maintained for essential services. To use the words of the 1948 Act, there was no " disruption or dislocation of essential services, but merely a reduction of supply."

This new development, this more sophisticated method of approach, has made the Act of 1948 nugatory for all practical purposes. This is the Act 'which the Country Party to-day purports to maintain and support. I suppose its members must do that because they supported the Act when it was passed. This Act, which was passed before the present sophisticated technique of strikes was


evolved, cannot meet the new situation. During the same period the arbitration machinery, too, has developed in sophistication. Now there are provisions in the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Act for secret ballot proceedings which did not exist at that time, and which over-ride any provisions of State law. That is part of the reason for the proposed amendments that are now before the House. There are more sophisticated strike methods and arbitration methods. I should have thought the House would agree that more sophisticated legislative methods are required to deal with the situations that now arise. The prime purpose of the Bill is to provide new remedies to meet new situations which have been created by new changes in the industrial and arbitration approaches. These things have changed and so the legislation must be changed to keep up with them.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE.-Have they changed overnight?

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-They have changed over a period of twenty years since the original Act was introduced~ I do not propose to call anyone a communist or to cast any blame. I propose to examine the principles involved. I shall not deal with the penalty clauses because if any honorable member considers that the penalties are too high, this aspect can easily be dealt with at the Committee stage. If any honorable member thinks the averment clauses go too far they, too, can be dealt with in Committee. If any honorable member considers that the right of trial by jury should be added, this can be dealt with in Committee also.

Let us examine the real principle. Surely this is contained in the two sets of proclamations-the one which exists in the principal Act and the further one which the Bill proposes to add. Under the Act, a proclamation can be invoked by the Government if an essential service is interrupted or

dislocated or there is a threat of this. Under the Bill, three further conditions are added; they deal with interference with the employment of other persons, the safety and health of the public or any part of it, and the maintenance of peace and good order in Victoria. Those three new conditions are proposed to be inserted in the legislation to meet changes which have occurred.

To-night some speakers have sought to make an idol of the right to strike. I agree that it was hard won, and that the Labor movement worked hard indeed to achieve the right to strike, that it worked against the concerted opposition of reactionary Governments and of employers who seemed to think that they had the sole right to determine industrial conditions. I can well understand the Labor movement and its representatives in this Parliament being very jealous indeed of that right. But what we are concerned with is something rather different. This is not a fight of capitalist versus worker. We are dealing with essential serviceswater, power, fuel, sewerage, transport, and so on-which are almost entirely Government or semi-Government controlled and sponsored. These industries are carried on by the representatives of the people for the people at large. Here there is no question of a capitalist, for his own selfish interests, grinding the faces of the workers into the ground. These authorities exist to give service to the public and to give fair conditions to their workers. In these fields we all know that the workers concerned have a very high degree of security of tenure. They do not need to fear arbitrary dismissal by a capricious employer or that their industrial conditions will be undermined at the drop of a hat or anything of that nature, which workers in unions in private enterprise had to fear 50, 60 or 100 years ago. Their conditions are and have long been well and truly protected in Australia. These authorities do not exist or seek


to exist at the expense of the workers. Indeed ample machinery has been provided by way of arbitration and conciliation, wages boards and negotiation to settle any disputes whatever between these authorities, which represent the Government and in turn the people, and those who work for them.

We are loath indeed to see unionists or non-unionists working in any such essential service have the liberty to hold to ransom the Government, the authority which employs them or the community, because we believe workers in these authorities enjoy a very privileged position. In any event, I for one would not hold that the right to strike is absolute. As I see it, any right imposes a corresponding duty. If a person has a right to drive a motor car, he has a duty to drive it responsibly and carefully and with due regard to the rights of others. If a person has a right to strike, he has a duty to exercise it responsibly and sensibly and with due regard to the rights of the public at large, especially if he is working in an essen tial service.

Sir Percy Byrnes called this Bill an extreme measure. Rather I would call the situation with which the Bill seeks to deal-a strike in an essential service-an extreme measure. The union concerned has an obligation, before taking this extreme measure of striking, to exhaust all possible opportunities of conciliation or arbitration for settlement of a dispute. It is common ground that all these opportunities were not exercised in the recent dispute. I hope it is common ground that the public at large, whom the Bill seeks to protect, are entitled to expect that these remedies will be exercised before this extreme action is taken. So I say that those in an essential service who take this extreme action without undertaking all opportunities available for settlement of their disputes are the ones who are guilty of

extreme action, and not the Government. To strike in an essential service without availing oneself of these opportunities is the extreme action, not the Bill.

I agree with those speakers who hoped that the powers in the Bill would not need to be exercised. We earnestly hope that it will assist to bring about a different climate, and to induce those who might otherwise act prematurely to recognize their obligations. I believe the original Act has succeeded to some extent in that way. It was implicit in the argument of the Country Party to-night that the Act has achieved that purpose to some extent. Unfortunately, the Act is not capable of fully achieving that purpose any longer because it will not meet the situation where there have been changes in Commonwealth law and in the unions' approach.

I can well understand unions being upset at anything which they conceive will diminish an absolute right to strike, although I do not agree that such a right can ever be absolute. It can only be exercised consistent with the interests of the community as well as the workers concerned. Far from this Bill being, as Mr. Galbally termed it, an unwarranted and intolerable interference with the traditional and inherent rights of the citizens of Victoria, in fact it is designed to stop irresponsible trade unionists-·the number is very small ; I do not hold the majority to be in this class--from making an unwarranted and intolerable interference in the traditional and inherent rights of the citizens of Victoria. In fact the purpose of the Bill is exactly the opposite of 'what Mr. Galbally asserted. We do not seek to interfere with the rights of anybody. We seek to ensure that unions will act with due regard to the rights of the citizens of Victoria as a whole. In consequence, Mr. President, I oppose the amendment and support the Bill.


The House divided on the question that the words proposed by Mr. Galbally to be omitted stand part of the motion (the Hon. W. R. Garrett in the chair)-

Ayes Noes

16 17

Majority for amendment

the

Mr. Chandler Mr. Dickie Mr. Fry

AYES.

Mr. Houghton Mr. Hunt Mr. Nicol Mr. Thorn

1

Mr. Gleeson Mr. Granter Mr. Grimwade Mr. Gross

Mr. Thompson.

Mr. Hamer Mr. Hamilton

Mr. Bradbury Sir Percy Byrnes Mr. Clarke Mr. Galbally Mr. Hewson Mr. Knight Mr. McDonald Mr. Mansell Mr. May

Tellers: Mr. Byrne Mr. Campbell.

NOES.

Mr. Merrifield Mr. O'Connell Mr. Swinburne Mr. Todd Mr. Tripovich Mr. Walton.

Tellers: Mr. Cathie Mr. Elliot.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-The question now is-

That the words proposed to be inserted in place of the words omitted be so inserted.

The House divided on the question (the Hon. W. R. Garrett in the chair)-

Ayes 17 Noes 16

Majority for the insertion of the words proposed to be inserted 1

Mr. Bradbury Sir Percy Byrnes Mr. Cathie Mr. Clarke Mr. Elliot Mr. Galbally Mr. Hewson Mr. McDonald Mr. Mansell

AYES.

Mr. May Mr. O'Connell Mr. Swinburne Mr. Todd Mr. Tripovich Mr. Walton.

Tellers: Mr. Knight Mr. Merrifield.

Mr. Byrne Mr. Campbell Mr. Chandler Mr. Dickie Mr. Granter Mr. Grimwade Mr. Gross Mr. Hamer Mr. Hamilton

NOES.

Mr. Houghton Mr. Hunt Mr. Nicol Mr. Thorn Mr. Thompson.

Tellers: Mr. Fry Mr. Gleeson.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett).-The motion now is-

That this House rejects this Bill utterly and completely as its inclusion in the statute-book would enable the Executive Government to exercise an unwarranted and intolerable interference in the traditional and inherent rights of the citizens of Victoria.

The House divided on the motion (the Hon. W. R. Garrett in the chair)-

Ayes 17 Noes 16

Majority for the motion. . 1

Mr. Bradbury Sir Percy Byrnes Mr. Cathie Mr. Clarke Mr. Elliot Mr. Galbally Mr. Hewson Mr. Knight Mr. McDonald

Mr. Byrne Mr. Campbell Mr. Chandler Mr. Dickie Mr. Fry Mr. Gleeson Mr. Gross Mr. Hamer Mr. Hamilton

AYES.

Mr. ManseU Mr. May Mr. Merrifield Mr. O'Connell Mr. Swinburne Mr. Walton.

Tellers: Mr. Todd Mr. Tripovich.

NOES.

Mr. Houghton Mr. Hunt Mr. Nicol Mr. Thorn Mr. Thompson.

Tellers: Mr. Grimwade Mr. Granter.

MARRIAGE (LIABILITY IN TORT) BILL.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government).-I move-


The size of this puny Bill should not deceive the House into thinking that it is not important. In many ways it

Marriage (Liability [12 MARCH, 1968.] in Tort) Bill. 3541

is an important measure, because it removes what now must be considered a long-standing injustice. Its immediate purpose is to give effect to the report of the 30th November, 1965, of the Statute Law Revision Committee of its inquiry upon actions in tort between husband and wife. As honorable members are aware, the word "tort" means a civil wrong. Paragraph 25 of that report simply recommends "that legislation be enacted to remove any incapacity for either spouse to sue the other in tort fl.

The rule proposed to be abolished is at present enshrined in sub-section (1) of section 160 of the Marriage Act 1958 in the words-

No husband or wife shall be entitled to sue the other for a tort except as in this section provided.

To that rule are stated exceptions allowing a spouse to bring proceedings against the other spouse for the protection of his or her separate property in cases where the law allows property to be separately held. To understand the issues involved in the Bill we must begin with the ancient concept of unity in marriage which holds that husband and wUe become one flesh. This early Christian doctrine is enunciated by Saint Paul in his letter to the Ephesians, chapter 5, and is adverted to by Saint Matthew in chapter 19 of his Gospel. We must trace the matter back to the influence of the Church and canon law on the common law, which was quite considerable in earlier centuries. It can now be said that, in m'any ways, canon law is now found not to be on the right track.

Ecclesiastical courts were interested in marriage as a sacrament and in preserving the marriage state. This involved the complete integration of the personality of the husband and the wife. Above all, the ecclesiastical courts were not contemplating actions at law between husband and wife which could have a vital effect on the marriage bond. Writing a little

Session 1968.-133

over 200 years ago, Sir Willia,m Blackstone, in his esteemed work Commentaries on the Laws of England, had the following to say upon the effect of nlarriage:-

By marriage, the husband and wife are one person in law; that is, the very being or legal exist.ence of the woman is suspended during marriage, or at least is incorporated and consolidated into that of the husband: under whose wing, protection, and cover, she performs everything ... and her condition during her marriage is called her coverture.

Over the centuries, much ingenuity and effort have been expended in breaking down the severity of the rule, espedally in relation to the holding of property, to emancipate women from the less humanitarian aspects of the restrictions. Putting aside questions of property and considering the personal rights of each of the spouses, the situation we are now in is tha t the cr,iminal law applies as hetween husband and wife to protect from assault and the like, but civil actions are based on the old rule in the interest of protecting the institution of marriage as a matter of public policy.

Whilst the only funds for compensating injuries ,inflicted by one spouse upon another were in the family purse, there was good reason in public policy for continuing the old rule, but the advent of the motor car, in particular, with compulsory insurance schemes, has created anomalies which 'are well expressed in the judgment of the Full Court in the case of McKinnon v. McKinnon and Leaman, reported in 1955 Argus Law Reports, page 392, in these terms-

We should like to conclude by expressing the strongly felt view that it is time the legislature remedied a very serious anomaly. If a husband or wife is injured as a result of the negligent driving of the other, the injured spouse can recover 'no damages against the negligent one. A male driver's mother, or daughter, or friend, or even his mistress can recover damages from him in respect of his negligence but his wife alone cannot. Similarly the husband of a woman driver is the only person who cannot recover damages from her if she is negligent. In these days when third-party insurance is compulsory, only insurance

3542 Marriage (Liability [COUNCIL.] in Tort) Bill.

companies benefit from this extraordinary situation. Further, if the injuries be due to the combined negligence of the husband and the driver of another vehicle, the other driver can recover a proportion of the damages from the husband. We therefore feel it proper to draw the attention of Parliament to this matter and suggest that the time has arrived when husband and wife should be permitted to sue each other in tort.

In cansidering the matter, the Statute Law Revisian Cammittee had befare it the legislatian af ather States and af the United Kingdam, tagether with material which was submitted to' inquiring badies in thase places. The material which influenced the Statute Law Revisian Cammittee is extracted in the 'cammittee's very excellent repart. Of the remedial legislatian passed in other places, the cammittee prefers the English approach af remaving the legal disability by taking away the prahibitian, but far the reasans st'ated in paragraph 23 af the' 1965 rep art it disappraves af the pawer to' stay any action which the English caurts m-ight feel to' be undesirable in the interests af the parties. It daes So' an the graund that determinatian af the questian whether to' stay an actian or nat could have the s'ame undesirable results ,as praceeding with the actian and it believes there is nO' reasan to' suspect that an unrestricted right af actian between husband and wife is likely to' be abused to' the paint where there wauld be any real need far a court to' intervene by staying the actian.

Incoming to' this canclusian, the Statute Law Revisian Cammittee has abv,iously been guided by the findings af the English committee set aut in paragraph 20 af the report, namely-

We think it most unlikely that, however strained their relations may be, either spouse would bring an action for damages against the other unless there was some possibility of the damages being recovered from some source outside the family.

The Gavernment is prepared to implement the cammittee's recammendatian far unrestricted rights af


action in tort, and it brings the Bill farward to' abalish the current rule barring actions in tort between spauses. I commend it to the Hause.

On the motion af the Han. ARCHIBALD TODD (Melbourne West Province), the debate was adjourned.

It was ardered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 19.

LA TROBE UNIVERSITY (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Educatian) .~I mave-


The Bill is intraduced at the request of the cauncil af La Trabe University. It makes a cO'mparatively minar amendment to the La Trabe University Act. Under the Act gaverning each university there is pravisian far the creation of a students' laan fund of a maximum amount of $20,000, up an a grant being made by the Treasury. The scheme has warked well thraugh the years at the University of Melbourne, where loans have been made to' students to enable them to pay fees, purchase baaks, and, in same cases, pay their living expenses. Honarable members will recall that a provision identical to' that in the BiB was inserted in the Acts relating to' the University of Melbourne and to' the Monash University to allow students under the age of 21 years to enter into binding contracts with thase universities. The amendment will clarify the legal pasitian in relatian to' the La Trabe University, So' that the students' loan fund of that university may be administered in the same way as those of the other universities. I commend the Bill to' the House.

On the motion of the Hon. Samuel Merrifield, far the Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbaurne N arth Province) , the debate was adjaurned.

It was ardered that the debate be adjaurned until Tuesday, March 19.

Administration and Probate [12 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill (No.2). 3543

ADMINISTRATION AND PROBATE (AMENDMENT) BILL (No.2).

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Govern'ment) .--I move-


In recent years the Administration and Probate Act 1958 has been amended to take into account changes in money values and in the needs of the com,munity. For exa'mple, in 1965, Part II. of the Act, which enables the Registrar of Probates and clerks of Petty Sessions to assist applicants for probate or adm.inistration in relation to sm·all estates, was amended to improve the procedures and particularly to increase the value of the estates dealt with in Part II. In general, the amounts previously specified in the Act were increased two and one-half times.

During the last sessional period the Act was amended to improve the rights of widows in cases of intestacy. This Bill has been prepared to alter other amounts of money in the Act in order to keep pace with changes in money value.

Section 32 of the Act, which has been in force since 1948, provides that where an employer holds moneys on account of a deceased employee whose net estate does not exceed $400 in value, the employer may, without requiring the production of probate or letters of administration, payor transfer to the next of kin money or personal property to an amount not exceeding $200. These amounts are increased by clause 2 of the Bill to $1,000 and $500, respectively.

Section 57 of the Act deals with administration bonds. For many years the Act has provided that in cases of intestacy a bond shall be provided by the administrator to ensure that he will properly carry out his duties, and the existing provision requires a bond in an a'mount equa'l to the gross value of the estate up to $10,000 and where it exceeds that sum the bond is required to be in the amount of $10,000. The section also requires the administrator to provide two sureties, but enables the court or, in

the case of small estates the Registrar of Probates, to dispense with one or both of the sureties or to direct that the amount of the bond shall be reduced in relation to the sureties.

Other legislation has been examined, particularly section 5 of the Wills Probate and Administration Act of New South Wales. Paragraphs (a) and (b) of clause 3 of the Bill will put into effect the New South Wales system which seems to have worked satisfactorily.

It will be noted that section 57 at present does not, because of the limit of $10,000 on administration bonds, make any provision for reduction of the amount of such bonds. Therefore, if the limit were removed and no other provision made, the amount of the bond in large intestate estates, which are not uncommon, might be very substantial.

Paragraph (b) of clause 3 of the Bill proposes that the power of the court or the Registrar to reduce the amount of the bond shall not be restricted to the bonds of sureties as is at present the case, but will extend to administrators' bonds as well. At the same time, clause 3 amends section 57 to extend the powers of the Registrar to estates where the gross amount does not exceed $2,000, instead of the present amount of $1,000. The most extensive amendment of section 57 of the Act is that contained in paragraph (b) of clause 3 of the Bill, and the Chief Justice and the Registrar of Probates have both intimated that they can see no objection thereto.

This Bill will facilitate the working of the Act without in any way damaging the rights of beneficiaries or creditors. I commend it to the House.

On the motion of the Hon. ARCHIBALD TODD (Melbourne West Province), the debate was adjourned.


3544 Aerial Spraying Control [COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

COUNTRY ROADS (BORROWING POWERS) BILL. The Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister

. of Health) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

Under the provisions Oof the Country Roads (Amendment) Act 1954, No. 5831, the Treasurer of Victoria was authorized to make advances from the LOoan Fund up to $12,000,000 to the Country Roads Board to finance permanent works. It is estimated that at the 30th June, 1968, the Board's total loan expenditure wiH be $10,500,000, leav.ing $1,500,000 available for authorization by the Treasurer to finance future loan expenditure by the Board.

The Board is at present planning or carrying out a number of major prOojects such as the approaches to the Lower Yarra Crossing, the San Remo bridge, the Strathmore by-pass road and the Calder by-pass road in the City of Keilor which could be charged wholly or partly to loan funds. It is envisaged therefore that the Board's loan expenditure over the next five years could be of the order of $20,000,000. This Bill will give the Treasurer the necessary authority to make further advances to the Board from the Loan Fund up to an additional $20,000,000.

Clause 1 is the usual citation clause. Clause 2 increases the amount for which the Treasurer has authority to make advances frOom the Loan Fund from the present limit Oof $12,000,000 to $32,000,000. 1 commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of the Hon. J. M. TIHPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) , the debate was adjourned.

'It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 19.

AERIAL SPRAYING CONTROL (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. The purposes of the Bill are to amend the provisions in the principal Act relating to the security to be lodged

by the owner of an aircraft from which spraying is carried out, and to give the insurer authority to inspect properties and to receive a statement from the Director of Agriculture in cases of alleged damage foHOowing aerial spraying.

Since the Aerial Spraying Control Act 1966 received Royal assent on the 17th May, 1966, aerial spraying control legislation has been enacted in Queensland and Western Australia, and there are differences in the wording of the various State Acts, particularly in relation to the provisions dealing with the security to be lodged by owners of aircraft. The Victorian Act came into Ooperation on the 15th November, 1966, and, shortly afterwards, following consultations with the Crown Solicitor's Office, it came to the notice of the Department of Agriculture that aerial operators could not Oobtain the type of insurance cover required by section 8 of the Act.

The problem of the differences between the terms of insurance policies available from insurance companies, the liability of aerial operators and the wording of the security provisions of the various State aerial spraying control Acts was discussed at the 67th meeting of the Australian Agricultural Council in July, 1967.

At the request of the Australian Agricultural Council, a conference of representatives from State and Commonwealth Government Departments, insurance underwriters and aerial operators was held in Melbourne on the 5th and 6th October, 1967. This conference reached agreement on all matters where amendments were considered necessary to achieve uniformity and submitted recommended amendments to the 68th meeting of the Australian Agricultural Council in February, 1968.

The Australian Agricultural Council endorsed the recommendations on the understanding that implementation was the responsibility of State Governments. It is understood that

Aerial Spraying Control [12 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3545

appropriate amending legislation will be introduced by the West Australian and Queensland Governments, that the recommended amendments have been included in the New South Wales Aerial Spraying Control Bill and that further action in Tasmania is likely to be delayed until the wording of the amendments proposed to the Victorian Act is known. The Government supports the recommendations for amendment to the Aerial Spraying Control Act 1966, as endorsed by the Australian Agricultural Council, as a means of achieving the desirable degree of uniformity between the various State Acts.

The Australian Aviation Underwri·ting Pool, which, it is understood, has written the majority of the insurance policies under the Victorian Act, has amended the wording of its third-party chemical liability policy as recommended by the conference held on 5th and 6th October, 1967. This company has also requested the same rights, for information relating to cases of alleged damage following aerial spraying, as the Act provides for aerial operators. The purpose of this request by the insurers is to assist them in the assessment of any claims for damage following aerial spraying operations. The Government considers the request a reasonable one, and the necessary provision has been included in the Bill before the House.

I turn now to the Bill itself. Clause 2 proposes, first, that the existing interpretation of "aerial spraying" shall be replaced by a new interpretation deleting the words" but does not include the jettisoning of agricultural chemicals from an aircraft in flight in an emergency in an attempt to prevent damage to that aircraft or injury to the pilot thereof". These words are not included in any other State Act and were included initially in the Victorian Act to exclude from the liability of the aerial operator damage caused by factors beyond his control. The third-party chemical liability policy available to aerial operators covers damage due to

emergency jettisoning of agricultural chemicals, and the deletion of the above words does not therefore involve the aerial operator in obtaining additional insurance cover.

Secondly, it proposes that the existing interpretation of the word " owner" shall be replaced by a new interpretation to make it clear that the aerial operator using the aircraft to carry out aerial spraying operations is the "owner", for the purposes of the Act, whether he owns the aircraft, or is in possession under a hire-purchase agreement or a leasing arrangement and that owners of aircraft who have hired or leased aircraft to aerial operators are not liable under the Act.

Thirdly, it provides that the existing interpretation of "spray drift" shall be replaced by a new interpretation deleting the words "while such chemical is being transported through any hazardous area for use in an aircraft for aerial spraying". At the same time, in the interests of uniformity, the interpretation has been reworded to bring the Victorian Act into line with the legislation in other States.

The words which it is proposed to delete from the Victorian Act are not included in any other State legislation and were included to cover transport of spray solution in open drums through a hazardous area from a depot to a landing field. However, with the proclamation of hazardous areas, the effect of this provision is that it no,~ imposes a liability on aerial operators for any damage arising fro:m all road transport of agricultural chemicals to be used in aerial spraying. Aerial operators consider that the provision appears to discriminate against their industry, in that it widens their liability far beyond the actual conduct of their operations and includes factors over which they have no control. The Government agrees that it was not the intention of the original legislation to so extend the liability of aerial operators, and has decided to amend the Act accordingly.

3546 Aerial Spraying Control [COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

Clause 3 provides for the deletion of sub-section (2) of section 4 of the Act which states-

For the purposes of sub-section (1) where such person is the owner of the aircraft an offence may be committed notwithstanding that such aerial spraying was carried out without his knowledge or consent. At the October conference, the Queensland and New South Wales representatives stated that this subsection had not or would not be included in their legislation, as it was considered that the pilot was the responsible persO'n in relation to the chemical rating certificate and therefore the person to be subject to a penalty. Further, any owner who knowingly or wilfully employed a pilot not holding a chemical rating certificate for aerial spraying operations would be covered by subsection (1) of sectiO'n 4 of the Act and be liable to the penalty specified.

Clause 4 proposes replacement of the existing section 8 of the Act, covering the security to be lodged by the owner of an aircraft, for the protection of any person who suffers loss or damage to his property as a result of aerial spraying or spray drift. The objectives of the new wording of section 8 are-

(a) to make it clear that, in respect of anyone accident, the aerial operator has insurance 'cover of $30,000 in the aggregate, irrespective of the number of claimants involved;

(b) to delete the requirement for cover for loss of life or personal injury;

(c) to provide for an initial a1m-ount of up to $100 on each claim to be paid by the operator rather than the insurance company; and

(d) to provide that the insurance policy itself as well as the company issuing the policy shall be approved by the Director of Agriculture.

These amendments have been included to achieve uniformity between the security provisions of the various

The Hon. G. L. Chandler.

State Acts and the terms of the insurance policies available to aerial operators.

The October conference agreed' that agricultural officers, who were competent to assess alleged damage to crops and livestock, were not competent to' assess loss of life or personal injury. Therefore, although insurance policies provide cover for such loss of life and personal injury, this should not be a requirement under the Act which is administered by the Department of Agriculture.

Insurance representatives stated that an initial amount to be paid by the insured in respect of small claims was normal insurance practice, and they were not prepared to amend their policies by deleting the " excess" clause. Insurance companies cannot be compelled to write policies and, therefore, it is ·considered reasonable to amend the Act to ensure that the terms of insurance policies available to aerial operators are such that the policies can be approved by the Director of Agriculture for lodging under section 8 of the Act.

Clause 5 provides for a number of minor amendments to section 12 to enable the Director to authorize insurers, or their accredited representatives, to inspect properties, and to require the Director to furnish insurers with a statement of his opinion in cases of alleged damage arising from aerial spraying operations. Provision is also made for the Director, on receipt of notification of alleged damage pursuant to subsection (4) of section 12 of the Act, to inform the owner of the aircraft and the insurer of the relevant details.

Insurance companies are vitally concerned in the adequate assessment of cases of alleged damage, and the Government supports the insurer's request for the same rights under the Act as are provided for the owner of the aircraft involved. The Aerial Spraying Control Act 1966 has now been in operation for more than twelve months, and aerial operators

Police Offences [12 MARCH, 1968.] (Publications) Bill. 3547

have commended the administration of the Act. Some 68 pilots have been examined and awarded chemical rating certificates. Hazardous areas have been proclaimed and two cases of alleged damage have been investigated. The amendments proposed in this Bill will facilitate the administration of the Act and will effect the desirable degree of uniformity in the aerial spraying control legisla-. tion of the various States.

The principal Act was the first of its kind to be enacted in Australia, and it has been followed, to some degree, by other States. It is considered desirable that there should be uniformity in this legislation throughout Australia; otherwise, aerial operators who work in more than one State will be at a disadvantage. The conference to which I referred was convened in Melbourne towards the end of last year and its recommendations were approved by the Australian Agricultural Council at its meeting in February of this year. I issued the invitations to the people concerned because I considered that Victoria should take the initative in holding a conference of this nature in the interests of uniformity. Operators in this industry conduct operations in all States of Australia, according to seasonal conditions, and it is in their interests to achieve uniformity so far as that is possible. This Bill is an attempt to achieve that end, and I commend it to the House.



POLICE OFFENCES (PUBLICATIONS) BILL.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government).-I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. This short Bill proposes to amend sections 172 to 175 of the Police Offences Act 1958 which prohibit the printing, publishing or distributing of

pictures or advertisements which, for any reason, are indecent, obscene or of a disgusting nature. These amendments are designed to make those provisions of the Police Offences Act more applicable and useful in the present-day control of indecent, obscene or disgusfing printed matter.

The effects of the amendments are that it will be an offence for any person to' print, publish, distribute, send or have in his possession for any of such purposes, any printed m·atter, ne'wspaper or publication registered with the Post Office as a newspaper, which contains any picture, advertisement, printed or written matter of any kind which is indecent or obscene or of a disgusting nature.

By definition contained in section 171 of the Police Offences Act, a " newspaper" includes any newspaper within the meaning of the Printers and Newspapers Act 1958 and any printed material registered as a newspaper in accordance with any Act or law for the time being in force relating to the Post Office.

Section 172 of the Police Offences Act 1958 makes it an offence for any person to print, publish, distribute, send by post or to have in his possession for such purposes, any newspaper cO'ntaining any picture, advertisement or printed or written matter in the nature of an advertisement, which is of "an indecent or obscene nature or 'is of a disgusting nature ".

Clause 2 extends the wording of section 172 so that it will be an offence for any person to print, publish, distribute, send by any means, or to have in his possession for any of such purposes, any newspaper containing printed or written matter which is indecent or obscene or of a disgusting nature whether that matter is by way of picture advertisement or otherwise. The clause also increases the monetary penalties for offences under the section. FO'r a first offence the maximum penalty is increased from $40 to $200. For a

3548 Police Offences [COUNCIL.] (Publications) Bill.

second or subsequent offence penalties are increased from a minimum of $40 and a maximum of $200 to a minimum of $200 and a maximum of $1,000. The penalties in so far as they relate to imprisonment have not been altered.

Section 173 of the principal Act makes it an offence for any person to print, publish, distribute, send by post or to have in his possession for any of such purposes "any picture or advertisement or any printed or written matter in the nature of an advertisement", other than in a newspaper, which is " of an obscene or indecent or is of a disgusting nature ".

Clause 3 amends section 173 in such a way that it will be consistent with section 172. In future it will be an offence for any person to print, publish, distribute, send by any means or have in his possession any printed or written matter which is indecent, obscene or is of a disgusting nature. This clause also increases the penalties for offences under section 173. The increases are the same as those referred to' with respect to clause 2.

Section 174 of the principal Act provides that where a company is the proprietor of a newpaper containing any picture or advertisement or any printed or written matter in the nature of an advertisement which is indecent, obscene Dr disgusting the individual persons who, within the provisions of the Printers and Newspapers Act 1958, are, respectively, the printer and the publisher of such newspaper, shall each be liable to the penalties provided.

Clause 4 of the Bill makes consequential amendments to section 174 and extends the provisions thereof to any printer or publisher of a printed matter registered with the Post Office as a newspaper.

Section 175 of the principal Act prohibits the import or bringing into Victoria of any newspaper which contains any picture or advertisement or written or printed matter in the nature of an advertisement and which


is of an indecent or obscene nature or is of a disgusting nature. Clause 5 makes consequential a'mendments to this section.

The net effect of the Bill is to widen the field covered by sections 172 to 175 of the Police Offences Act, and therefore to 'make the legislation more effective. I com:mend the measure to the House.

On the motion of the Hon. Samuel Merrifield, for the Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbourne North Province) , the debate was adjourned.


The House adjourned at 10.18 p.m.

11ltgililatiut i\lilitmbly. Tuesday, March 12, 1968.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie) took the chair at 4.6 p.m., and read the prayer.

OFFICERS OF THE HOUSE. NEW ; ... PPOINTMENTS.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I have to inform the House that, consequent on the retirement on 6th March of John Archibald Robertson, from the offices of Clerk of the Parliaments and Clerk of the Legislative Assembly, I have nominated Alfred Reginald McDonnell to be the Clerk of the House, John Harold Campbell to be the Clerk-Assistant, Ian Neil McCarron to be the Second ClerkAssistant and Raymond Keith Boyes to be the Serjeant-at-Arms; and that the Governor in Council has been pleased to make the appointments in accordance with the said nominations. Furthermore, on the joint recommendation of the Honorable the President of the Legislative Council and myself, the Governor in Council has been pleased to appoint Leslie Graham McDonald, Clerk of the Legislative Council, to be the Clerk of the Parliaments.

Child [12 MARCH, 1968.] Care. 3549

CHILD CARE. DAY NURSERIES: ELIGIBILITY

QUALIFICATIONS.

Mr. WILKES (N orthcote) asked the Chief Secretary- .

1. What are the eligibility qualifications for admission of children to the fourteen day nurseries subsidized by the Department of Health, indicating, in particular, whether children can be admitted in cases where they have two parents who, for economic reasons, are both obliged to work?

2. Who supervises the fulfilment of the qualifications for admission to these day nurseries?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).These questions ought properly to have been directed to the Minister of Health, who has supplied the following answers:-

1. There are no eligibility qualifications laid down by the Department of Health for the admission of children to the day nurseries subsidized by it.

Admission of children to each of the day nurseries is determined by the committee of management of the day nursery concerned in consultation with the Victorian Day Nurseries Association. Admission is open to all children, but priority is given in those instances where it would appear that the greatest hardship exists.

2. The supervision of the admission to day nurseries is, again, the responsibility of the several committees of management, acting in conjunction with the Victorian Day Nurseries Association, of which each day nursery is a member.

RECEPTION CENTRES: PREVENTATIVE SERVICES.


Whether studies on the effectiveness of various types of preventative services conducted by Dr. Isla Stamp and the psychiatrists attached to Turana and Allambie reception centres are available in published form for the use of other professional workers in the field of child care?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).Again, the answer has been supplied by the Minister of Health. The two psychiatrists attached to Turana and Allambie reception centres are within the jurisdiction of the Minister of Health and have been seconded to the Social Welfare Branch. The answer is-

Dr. Isla Stamp's latest work was published in the Medical Journal of Australia, in December, 1967, volume 2, No. 23.

The work of the psychiatrists attached to Turana and Allambie reception centres is still in progress. This work is being done by collaboration between the Mental Health. Research Institute and the Social Welfare: Branch, and, when completed, the results will be published.

ELECTORAL. HEIDELBERG REPATRIATION GENERAL HOSPITAL: VOTING RIGHTS OF INMATES.

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Chief Secretary-. 1. What voting conditions apply to the mmates of the Heidelberg Repatriation General Hospital during a Victorian State election, particularly regarding eligibility for postal voting?

2. If he will ascertain and inform the House if similar arrangements apply to Commonwealth elections?

Mr. RYI .. AH (Chief Secretary).The answers are-

1: A polling booth with both ordinary votmg and absent voting facilities is established at the Heidelberg Repatriation General Hospital at Victorian State elections. Mobile patients can thus vote there either as ordinary voters or absent voters a.s the case may. be. At the conjoint election on 29th Apnl, 1967, 297 ordinary votes and 376 absent votes were recorded thereat.

Patients confined to bed are entitled to vote by post in the same manner as other electors in similar circumstances. The Chief Electoral Officer invariably writes to the secretary of the hospital on the occasion of each election asking that every assistance be rendered to patients who desire to vote by post and a supply of 500 postal application forms is forwarded for their use. Mobile patients who do not desire to vote in person may also lodge applications for postal votes.

2. The Commonwealth Electoral Officer for Victoria states that similar arrangements to the above are made at Commonwealth elections.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

MERRI CREEK: HEALTH HAZARD.

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East) asked the lVIinister of Public Works for the Minister for Local Govern~ ment-

1. Whether, having regard to the low flow in the Merri creek, the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works could release sufficient water to flush the polluted and stagnant waters now lodged in the creek?

2. When was the last occasion the Board obtained a bacterial count from this creek?

3550 M elbourne-Geelong [ASSEMBLY.] Highway.

3. Whether the Minister is aware of any activity by the Department of Health regarding the present polluted state of the Merri creek as a hazard to public health; if so, what action (if any) will be taken to .overcome this situation?

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The answers supplied by the Minister for Local Government are-

1. Taking into account the serious situation regarding water storages the suggested use of water is considered undesirable at the present time.

2. The last bacteriological analysis of water in Merri creek was taken on 22nd February, 1968.

3. The most recent activity by the Department of Health in regard to the Merri creek was the investigation of complaints of discharge of industrial waste to this creek from a factory at Fawkner. Investigation disclosed that phenolic and acidic waste water were being discharged from the factory into the creek.

However, as from the middle of February, all phenolic waste has been discharged to the sewers of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, and the acidic waste will also be discharged to this sewer before the end of the month.

There have, however, been no complaints, nor has any other evidence been submitted to the Department of Health to indicate that pollution of the Merri creek is a hazard to public health. In practice the General Health Branch of the Department of Health leaves the routine prevention of pollution of the Merri creek to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works and in fact the stream pollution regulations administered by the Commission of Public Health specifically exclude all streams in the metropolitan area under the control of the Board from the application of these regulations.

MELBOURNE~EELONG HIGHWAY.

VEHICULAR TRAFFIC.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Public Works-

Whether plans have been made for extensions to the Melbourne-Geelong highway to cater for ever-increabing vehicular traffic between these two cities; if so, what plans and when it is expected they will be implemented?

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer is-

The Country Roads Board is preparing plans for the extension of the multi-lane highway from the Separation-street bridge

to Latrobe-terrace, Geelong. Subject to funds being available, the Board is hopeful of implementing these plans within the next few years.

GEELONG WEST CITY COUNCIL. MAINTENANCE OF Bus ROUTES: COUNTRY ROADS BOARD GRANTS.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Public Works-

Since 1955, what were the annual financial grants by the Country Roads Board to the Geelong West City Council for the purposes of maintaining bus routes in that city?


The following allocations have been made by the Board to the council for the construction and maintenance of various bus stops and the reconstruction and maintenance of various bus routes:-

1955-56-Nil. 1956-57-Nil. 1957-58-Nil. 1958-59--$5,160, subject to council contri

bution of $2,580. 1959-60--$5,600, subject to council contri

bution of $2,800. 1960-61-$5,600, subject to council contri








bution of $4,050.

LEVEL CROSSINGS. SURVEY AT PARK-STREET, MOONEE

PONDS.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Public Works-

1. What authority conducted a survey between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. on 29th February last, at the Park-street level crossing in the Legislative Assembly electoral district of Moonee Ponds?

2. Why this survey was taken, what was the result, and what action is expected to eventuate from this survey?

Melbourne Harbor Trust. [12 MARCH, 1968.] State Electricity Commission. 3551

3. Whether any other surveys will be conducted at level crossings in the electorate; if so, when?


1. The Country Roads Board on behalf of the Inter-departmental Committee on Abolition of Level Crossings.

2. To ascertain the number of road and rail vehicles using the crossing and the delays to the road vehicles caused by th~ intermittent closing of the road for raIl traffic. The results of the survey will be conveyed to the inter-departmental ~mmittee, and it is not known what actIon will be taken.

3. It is not known at this stage whether any further similar surveys will be carried out.

MELBOURNE HARBOR TRUST.

WILLIAMSTOWN HIGH TIDES.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of PubLic W orks-

1. What is the highest tide, second highest tide, and third highest tide, respectively, ever recorded at the Williamstown automatic tide recorder; such information, if available, to be reduced to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works datum?

2. What was the reason for these high tides records in each case, and whether there has been any material alteration in the mean level of high water of neap tides from 1874 to date?


1. Tidal records of the Melbourne Harbor Trust Commissioners show that the highest tide, the second highest tide and the third highest tide at the Williamstown automatic tide recorder are 6 ft. 61 in., 6 ft. 5:! in., and 5 ft. 61 in., respectively. These tide levels are reduced to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works datum.

2. Each of these abnormally high tides was associated with the passage of an intense barometric depression through Bass Strait, over Tasmania and to its south, when very stormy conditions prevailed for several days.

No statistics exist for the mean level of high water of neap tides from 1874 to date.

For further information the honorable mEmber is referred to the Proceedings of the Royal Society of Victoria, volume 69, entitled "Abnormally High Tides in the Port of Melbourne" by J. E. Bradley.

STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION.

TAKEOVER OF MUNICIPAL ELECTRICAL UNDERTAKINGS.

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power-

Whether the State Electricity Commission has considered taking over from those municipalities which are at present administering their own electrical undertakings; if so-( a) what basis of compensation to the municipalities concerned is proposed; and (b) wha.t arrangements are. i~te~d.ed regarding employes of the mUnICIpalItIes engaged in electrical undertakings in so far as future employment, loss of salary and benefits are concerned?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-The answer is-

Yes. The Commission has reported on its proposals at some length in its last two annual reports. The relevant sections of these reports are on page 12 of the 47th annual report and page 15 of the 48th annual report.

(a) The pu.rchase price of the undertakings would be a matter for negotiation, but as indicated in those reports the Commission's intention is that the acquisition would be on an equitable basis and one that would place the individual councils at no financial disadvantage in the continued performance of their true functions of local government.

(b) The Commission would offer employment to all persons in the service of the undertakings at the time of transfer. In the case of wages employees this would be at the rates and conditions existing in the Commission's service at the time. In the case of a sta.ff officer, similar considerations would apply except that if the relevant salary in the Commission's service is less than what the officer is receiving at the time of transfer, the Commission will continue the higher rate of pay until the officer is promoted to a position carrying equivalent salary, subject to a maximum period of two years. Officers who are participating in the Local Authorities Superannuation Scheme will have the option of continuing in that scheme or of joining the Commission's provident fund!. Credits for long service, recreation and sick leave would be carried forward and appropriate adjustments made in determining the acquisition price of the undertaking.

RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. INDUSTRIAL STOPPAGES: STANDING

DOWN OF EMPLOYEES.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. Whether, under the metal trades award, the Victorian Railways Commissioners may deduct pay from any employee who can1'ot,

3552 Railway [ASSEMBLY.] Department.

because of any strike or lock-out by any persons whatsoever or through any breakdown of machinery or any failure or lack of power or materials or any other cause whatsoever for which the Commissioners are not 'responsible, be usefully employed in the -class or grade of work in which he is usually employed?

2. Why, on each occasion of the recent '24-hour stoppages by the Municipal Officers' Association associated with the State Electricity Commission, which occasioned power restrictions, the Victorian Railways Commissioners took most urgent and efficient precautions on the eve of the stoppages to ensure that the foremen at the Newport Railway Workshops "booked off", during the period of the stoppage, all those employees who were working on power machines on the previous day?

3. Whether the Newport Railway Workshops is so endowed with skilled tradesmen that useful alternative employment could not be found for these men temporarily deprived of power; if not, why the Commissioners " booked off .. the employees, thereby causing hardship to them?

4. Whether he will give an assurance that, in the event of further stoppages, proper investigations will be conducted to see if all tradesmen can be usefully employed before a premature blanket "book off" order is promulgated on the eve of stoppages?


1. Yes. 2. This was a reasonable exercise of the

Commissioners' rights under the award provisions.

3. The Commissioners consider that responsibility for any hardship on the employees who were booked off does not lie with them but with the Municipal Officers' Association.

4. I am informed that proper investigations were made on both recent occasions despite the fact that on the first occasion -16th February-advice regarding power restrictions was not received by the Commissioners until the workshops were about to cease duty on the previous day.

I hope no such stoppages will occur in the future.

REFLECTORS ON RAILWAY GOODS VEHICLES.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Transport-

Whether he received approaches from various sources to consider using reflector lights or tape affixed to the side of railway goods vehicles to assist the vision of motorists after dark; if so, what action (if any) is proposed?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The answer is-

Yes. However, I am informed by the Railways Commissioners that there are many reasons why the proposal could not be adopted. If the honorable membeJ;' would like to meet a railway officer to discuss the matter, I shall make the necessary arrangements.

As a matter of interest, following successful tests the Commissioners are now installing at selected country level crossings, reflectorized strips so that the glow in the light of approaching motor vehicle headlights will be interrupted by the wheels of a train passing over the crossing. Approximately 30 or 40 such strips have already been installed.

CHILD CRUELTY. CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE TO

CENTRAL REGISTRY.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) asked the Minister of State Development, for the Minister of Health-

1. When the Department of Health will set up the consultative committee to the central registry, set up to register cases of child cruelty?

2. Whether members of the committee have been chosen; if so, what are their names and qualifications?

Mr. MANSON (Minister of State Development) .-The answers supplied by the Minister of Health are-

1. The recommendation of the committee of investigation was that facilities should be provided where doctors could give confidential information concerning cases of child cruelty which had come to their notice.

This facility is being established and the necessary documents will be distributed to all doctors in Victoria in the very near future.

The recommendation of the committee was that a consultative committee should eventually be set up but this will not be done until a substantial period has elapsed to permit the evaluation of the extent of the cases reported by doctors to the registry.

2. No.

FOOTSCRAY AND DISTRICT HOSPITAL.

STAFF: CASUALTY TREATMENT.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked the Minister of State Development, for the Minister of Health-

1. What staff is employed at the Footscray and District Hospital?

Footscray and District Hospital. [12 MARCH, 1968.] Foot and Mouth Disease. 3553

2. What increase has occurred in casualty treatment at this hospital in recent years?

3. Whether the Minister is aware that the present staff is insufficient to adequately service the casualty department; if so, what action he proposes taking to assist the hospital to cope with increased casualty treatments from the increasing population in the western suburbs?

Mr. MANSON (Minister of State Development).-The answers supplied by the Minister of Health consist of tables of figures, and I seek leave of the House to have them incorporated in Hansard without my reading them.


l. At 30th June, 1967, the staff employed at the hospital was-

Full- Part-time. time.

----------- ------Nursing ..

Medical and medical ancillary

General ..

284

67

191

11

8

16

542 35

2. Casualty treatments at the hospital in recent years numbered:-

1961-62 1962-63 1963-64

*1964-65 1965-66 1966-67

11,570 11,941 11,717 14,721 14,217 13,878

*New casualty department opened in 1964-65.

3. The Minister is not aware that the present staff is insufficient to .adequately service the casualty department. In the two-year period ended 30th June, 1967, additional staff was approved for new and additional services at the hospital, including the casualty department, as under:-

Nursing-sixteen.

Medical and medical ancillary-eight fulltime and one part-time.

General-six.

The hosp'ital has not made any requests for additional staff for the casualty department that have not been satisfied.

FOOT AND MOUTH DISEASE. COMPENSATION FUNDS.

Sir HERBERT HYLAND (Gippsland South) asked the Minister of Lands, for the Minister of Agriculture-

In the event of the dreaded foot and mouth disease breaking out in Australia, what is the present state of Victoria's Cattle Compensation Fund and Swine Compensation Fund, respectively?

For S:ir WILLIAM McDONALD (Minister of Lands), Mr. Manson (Minister of State Development).The answer supplied by the Minister of Agriculture is-

In the event of an outbreak of foot and mouth disease anywhere in Australia there is provision under complementary Commonwealth-State legislation for the establishment of a Foot and Mouth Disease Eradication Fund, to which all States and the Commonwealth will contribute.

In this State the matter is provided for under Part V. of the Stock Diseases Act, section lIE; of which authorizes the application of this fund to the payment of compensation payable in respect of foot and mouth disease.

Under the Cattle Compensation Act and Swine Act compensation is payable where stock are slaughtered because of certain specified diseases, but foot and mouth disease has not been included as a disease for which compensation will be paid under these latter Acts.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. NEWSPAPER ARTICLE: ALLEGED POLI

TICAL STATEMENTS BY SENIOR PUBLIC SERVANTS.

Sir HE:NRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-Mr. Speaker, I desire, by leave, to make a Ministerial statement.

In the column entitled "Labor Speaks" which appeared in the Herald newspaper of Saturday, 9th March, an allegation of a very serious nature was made. Portion of the column was devoted to an attack upon me, and I am not now concerned with this aspect of the matter.

The aspect which does, however, concern me and will, I believe, concern you, Mr. Speaker, and every member of this House is that the column alleged that senior officials in

3554 Ministerial [ASSEMBLY.] Statement.

the Premier's Department and the Treasury had been guilty of serious offences and a dereliction of their duty.

The author stated that during the last election campaign the Labor Party warned the electors that the Government proposed to increase State taxation, and the article proceeded to say, and I quote-

Labor again charged that Sir Henry was not telling the truth.

It was able to do this because senior officials in the Premier's Department and the Treasury were seriously concerned that the Premier was misleading electors.

They knew what he planned and they felt it their duty to apprise the Parliamentary Opposition of these plans.

The House will be well aware that if members of the Public Service were to make statements on political matters to members of the Opposition, this would constitute a serious breach of the Public Service Act, and possibly of The Constitution Act Amendment Act and the Public Service Regulations.

The House will also be aware of the long-standing tradition which governs the Public Service, and particularly senior officials, that they must stand completely apart from politics. Their duty is to. serve the Government of the day, irrespective of party, with complete loyalty and impartiality.

I am sure that members of the Opposition would expect and receive this complete loyalty from the senior officials of the Public Service if the Opposition were to find itself on the Governmen~ benches.

This article, therefore, constitutes a grave attack on the loyalty and integrity of unnamed senior officials of the Premier's Department and the Treasury, and the House will also be aware that these officials, being members of the Public Service, are quite unable to defend themselves and make a public reply.

Most honorable members know Mr. A. G. Coulthard, the Secretary to the Premier's Department, and Mr. E. W. Coates, the Director of Finance.

Sir Henry Bolte.

They have assured me on behalf of themselves and their senior officers that there is not one grain of truth in this unwarranted attack upon them.

I wish, therefore, to inform the House that I consider the allegation a matter of the utmost seriousness and I deplore it. I should be interested to learn from the Leader of the Opposition whether the Opposition associates itself with the allegation or whether he is prepared to infonn the House that it does not do so.

I do not refer to this matter lightly. It is probably a moot point whether I should approach the senior officers of the Treasury and the Premier's Department or whether they should approach me, but I assure the House that the senior officials, headed by Mr. Coulthard and Mr. Coates, view this matter so seriously that they approached me, and it is their desire that I should make this statement to the House. Any other method they may have of obtaining satisfaction is up to them, but it is in this Parliament that the good name of all public servants should be defended. It is not right that someone outside this place can impugn their integrity. I consider it almost unbelievable that an outside journalist should publish an article under the name of a political party.

Mr. SUGGETT.-Whose name is it under?

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-It is under the name of Mr. Hartley, who has authorized it and is responsible for it. The article stated that members of the Opposition were told certain things by these senior officials, and the members of the Opposition must have told Mr. Hartley that this had taken place.

Mr. FENNESSY.-You are making the accusations.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-I am making accusations concerning what was in the column, and I am here to defend the senior officials of both Departments. They have assured me that

Town and Country [12 MARCH, 1968.] Planning (Amendment) Bill. 3555

the statements in the article are not true, and the least I can do for them is to repeat their statements. I believe they can look after themselves in other fields if that is necessary. To-day it is sufficient for me to say that if members of the Opposition are prepared to associate themselves with this article, this is the place, and possibly the time, to do it.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-Mr. Speaker, do I require leave to speak?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-As there is no motion before the Chair, there can be no debate on the Ministerial statement, but the Leader of the Opposition may speak by leave of the House.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premjer and Treasurer).-Leave is granted.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) (By leave) .-This is the first opportunity I have had to read this document, and I agree with the Premier that the charges made are serious. Because of the intensity of the work that I have been engaged in over the week-end, I have not had an opportunity of apprising myself of the full weight of the material in the article. Members of the Opposition regard the matter seriously, and I undertake to have it investigated and to make a statement to the House at the first available opportunity.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-By leave, I move-

That the statement be printed.

On the motion of Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until next day.

TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The debate (adjourned from February 20) on the motion of Mr. Porter (Minister of Public Works) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).- To say that the Government has proceeded with indecent haste in respect of planning in this State would be quite incorrect. The metropolitan planning scheme of 1954 was hopelessly bogged down at interim development order level, and what has happened since then is history. Many municipalities have been forced to spend thousands of dollars on their individual planning schemes, whilst others have seen fit to rely on the interim development orders of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works. Whatever the result of this Bill, it will surely correct those anomalous situations which have existed since 1954.

The arguments I shall put forward will not vary greatly from those advanced by the Opposition when a similar Bill was introduced in the autumn session of last year. In many respects this measure is no different from that Bill. During the secondreading debate on the 1967 Bill, the then honorable member for Flemington, Mr. Holland, put the case for the Opposition. Several honorable members on the Government side of the House also made contributions to the debate. However, the Bill was not sent to another place. In fact, the Minister for Local Government invited interested bodies such as the Town and Country Planning Board, . the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works and municipalities to express their views in relation to the whole concept of planning as it was set out in that Bill.

Both the Town and Country Planning Board and the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works made submissions to the Government. Broadly speaking, the Town and Country Planning Board wanted to be designated the strategic planning authority for the State. This Bill provides for that, although there are other powers of planning which I shall mention later. According to its report, the Board suggested that corridor development should proceed south and east of Melbourne. All the suggestions of the Town and Country

3556 Town and Country [ASSEMBLY.] Planning (Amendment) Bill.

Planning Board were not adopted by the Government but, in the main, the Bill p~ovides that that body shall be the planning authority for the State of Victoria. On the other hand, the Melbourne· and Metropolitan Board of Works wanted power to plan for a much larger area than it at present covers, and the Bill authorizes its being the planning authority for part of the area it recommended. The Board of Works suggested that corridor development should be to the north and west of Melbourne, and the Bill provides for this.

The policy of the Australian Labor Party and the Opposition on planning has been clearly defined in documents and statements made in relation to planning in Victoria, and anyone interested can read it. It provides that there should be a planning authority-as does this Bill.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Do you want an economic planning council?

Mr. WILKES.-The Opposition has certain views on how planning should be financed although, obviously, the Government has none. Nothing in the Bill defines how the work of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works or the Town and Country Planning Board is to be financed. If there is any suggestion at all, it follows a recommendation of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works in respect to local councils.

Of course, municipal councils have been completely ignored, and their rights and powers to plan have been steadily eroded. Last year's Bill provided for municipal council by-law control of planning but, after the Government had another look at the position it scrapped that proposal. The definitions clause indicates how this power of local government has been eroded. Although this trend may have merit in one small way, it is out-dated and out-weighed 'by the fact that local government has done much planning in the metropolitan area, by adopting municipal schemes and through the agency of the

Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, since 1954. If the municipalities are to be thrown to the wolves, no doubt representations will be made to the Minister.

After the Minister of Public Works had made his second-reading speech on this Bill, the Minister for Local Government, who is a member of another place, made a Ministerial statement on planning, although there is no measure relating to this subject before that House. Despite the fact that the proposed legislation may alter the pattern of development of the whole State for ten, twenty or more years, the only way in which members of this House who may wish to take part in the debate on this Bill can learn of the details of the Ministerial statement is to read it in Hansard. A statement which is of interest to members of another place is surely of equal interest to those in this Chamber, which is considering the proposed legislation referred to in the statement. I regret that the Government has not considered this very important aspect of the matter. You, Mr. Speaker, have previously ruled that honorable members of this House would be out of order in discussing a Ministerial statement made in another place, and therefore I cannot comment on matters on which the Legislative Council has information and which may be pertinent to this Bill. The Government should discontinue this practice. Ministerial statements should be made in both Chambers.

The Bill presented to the Legislative Assembly last year provided for a tribunal to hear and determine appeals in relation to town planning decisions. It also provided for planning where the appropriate planning area went beyond the boundaries of one municipal district. It defined more satisfactorily the relationship between the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works and the metropolitan municipal councils after approval was given to the Board of Works planning scheme, and it attempted to clarify and improve the


provisions of the Act in the light of experience since the 1961 legislation was enacted. In addition to making some very important alterations to the principles laid down in the 1967 Bill, the Bill now before the House provides for those matters, although not necessarily in the same way.

The Bill provides for the setting up of a State Planning Council and for the extension of the Melbourne and metropolitan planning area. The Opposition believes, as was outlined at the time, that there ought to be a State Planning Council responsible for 'Over-all planning in the State, but this is not what is now proposed. The State Planning Council to be set up under the Bill will be an advisory body, whose duty will be to advise the Town and Country Planning Board in respect of its policy decisions on planning for the whole of Victoria. This proposal may have advantages, as it is intended that representation shall come from Government Departments, as well as from public authorities which have a particular interest in planning through the redevelopment of areas and the effect on roads and transport, and other aspects.

There is a notable om'ission from the membership of the State Planning Council. The Bill provides that the council shall consist of the chairman of the Town and Country Planning Board, who shall be chairman of the council; the chairman of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission; the chairman 'Of the Country Roads Board; the chairman of the State Electricity Commission; the chairman of the Victorian Railways Commissioners; the secretary of the Premier's Department; the secretary of the Public Works Department; the chairman of the Housing Commission ; the chairm'an of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works; the chairman of the Land Utilization Advisory Council; the Under-Secretary; and the Director-General of Education. No reference is made to a representative of the Local Government Department, which is concerned with town planning.

As a former Minister for Local Government, the Minister of Public Works appreciates the important part that the Local Government Department could play in regard to architecture. I am amazed that the Government has seen fit to disregard the opportunity of making use of the knowledge and experience of a m'an 'Of the calibre of Mr. Mithen, the secretary of the Local Government Department, on this advisory council. His knowledge of local government and planning ,is unsurpassed by anyone in the State, including some of the eminent legal authorities who express their views on this subject from time to time.

There is another notable omission from this advisory panel, which is concerned not only with aesthetic values in the planning of an area but also welfare and social services. It is logical that someone of st'anding in these fields should be represented on the State Planning Council to assist on these particular aspects. No doubt essential services which are set up to fulfil the needs 'Of people living in an area are designed after consideration has been given to density of the area and the 'availability of public transport, and their over-all effect on the lives of the IDcal people.

I do not doubt that the chairman of the Housing Commission should be represented on the council because of the importance of housing redevelopment in town planning, but I consider that the Director-General of Social Welfare also should be represented. This officer could assist in relation to future needs and the coordination of institutions of various types, including hospitals, children'S homes, youth hostels, institutions for the aged, and so on. The needs of special groups throughout the communitymust be borne in mind and not ignored. I am not suggesting that they will be completely ignored by the State Planning Council, but obviously they will be taken into consideration on only a broad basis. I am sure the Minister wants this to be a special council because of the nature of the work it will be required


to perform; therefore, I suggest to the Government that the Isecretary of the Local Government Department s~ould be represented on it, also the DIrector-General of Social Welfare. This will give the councH the balance that it needs.

Mr. PORTER.-Would it not make the council top heavy?

Mr. WIILKES.---JI do not think it would make it any more top heavy than the proposed representation. I was present at the conference on town planning, held at La Trobe University under the auspices of the Minister for Local Government which was organized by the Royal' Automobile Club of Victoria. I do not know how that particular body came to parNcipate, but it promoted the conference. Some of the views I have canvassed were freely expressed at the conference. It 'is apparent that those persons who are to be represented on the State Planning Council are those who were able to push their barrow at the conference-with justification, I agree. All I am asserting is that the other two persons whom I men Honed should be represented, .in order that every aspect of the subject may be covered.

The .functions of the State Planning CouncIl a~e to co-ordinate planning by State mstrumentalities and semigovernmental authorities of future works and developments for which they are responsible, and also to act as consultant and adviser to the Town and Country Planning Board concerning the preparation and adoption of any statement of planning policy prepared by the Board. This means that any policy that is prepared on planning will be referred to the council. Any statement of planning p~licy that is prepared by the Board WIll be forwarded to the Minister together w.ith the com·ments, if any: of the State Planning Council.

Under the Bill the Governor in Council, or in this case the Minister, may approve of any statement of planning policy with or without modification, subject to such conditions as -he thinks fit. The Minister

will be empowered to throw out any recommendation of the State Planning Council, or of the Town and Count!y Pl~nning B.oard through the councIl, WIthout gIving any public reasons. I point out that there is a public ingredient in this matter. Perhaps I am developing the argu~en.t from the wrong end, but later It WIll clearly be seen that the regIonal planning authorities will be a tier of planning that is responsible to the Board. In addition to members of municipal councils, certain private individuals also will be members of the regional planning authorities. The Government is prepared to risk having private individuals on its regional planning authorities, and therefo~e the decisions on any recommendatIOns that m·ay be made and sent ~n from the Town and Country Plannmg Board to the State Planning ~ouncil, and eventually to the MinIster or the Governor in Council, should be made public, because they affect people. This is the very aspect ~hat the Bil~ covers at a later stage In overcommg the old system of appeals to the Minister.

I have no other views to express on . the State Planning Council, for whIch I believe there is a need. Obviously, any recommendations that the council makes which concern Government policy should not be made public, but I believe there will be instances in which reports of a public nature will be made in respect of which the Minister should give reasons for either accepting or rejecting them. This effect will be felt further down the line.

The next proposal in the Bill is to establish regional planning authorities. The Minister has provided the Opposition with a map of the region which will be the responsibility of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works. In fact the Board will be a regional planning authority responsible for its present area plus an extension. Thus, if the estimated population of the State by the turn of the century is achieved, the Board will be responsible for planning in respect of 80 per cent. of 5,000,000 people.


The proposed area of 2,000 square miles is a large increase on the Board's present area. Over the past three or four weeks, a good deal has been said about the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works. Before discussing this subject, I suggest that the Government should consider reducing the volume of planning work for which the Board is responsible. This would be consistent with the Government's views. I have no doubt that suggestions for a reduction in the size of the Board have been made by the Premier. Certainly this is not consistent with a proposal to increase the Board's responsibility. I should have thought that, rather than increase the area for which the Board will be responsible, it should be left to regional planning authorities to operate in some of the districts that it is proposed to include. In due course I shall advert to one area in which the Government intends to allow a regional planning authority to operate. On the map, the Board's existing area of responsibility is shown in red and the proposed extension in green. There is a notable exception-the Mornington Peninsula and the huge development in the Hastings area in respect of which the Board will be responsible for water reticulation.

Mr. BALFOUR.-That is not so. Mr. WILKES.-I think that will be

the case. The Board is responsible for conveying sewage to Cape Schank. In this inst?nce the Government is not prepared to extend the Board's area of responsibility to cover regional planning for the huge development in the Hastings area. The Government has decided to set up another regional planning authority to take over the Hastings area. Of course, there is a lot of agitation about this matter at the present time. The following reference was made in an article in the Herald last week:-

The likelihood of a $3,000,000 steel works at Hastings is making the local planning bodies desperate to keep the Board of Works out.

Anxious locals regard the Board of Works as a " spanner in the works. "

A deputation is planned next week by the Westernport Development Committee to the Minister for Local Government, Mr. Hamer.

The shires of Hastings and Cranbourne want the Government to change its mind on proposed legislation to allow the Board of Works to "slide sideways into our domain. "

Chief critic of the Board in Westernport is Mr. Lance A. Walker, Hastings Shire secretary, and secretary of the Westernport Development Committee.

"We don't want to have to negotiate with the Board of Works every time we plan something.

"There's enough red tape involved in these things as it is," he said to-day.

Mr. Walker said that a Bill to amend the Town and Country Planning Act was before Parliament. He is reported to have said that the Bill had passed the second-reading stage, but of course it has no.t. The report continued-

"We want it amended before it goes to a vote," Mr. Walker said.

"The Bill provides for an extension of the Board of Works area over half of Cranbourne intruding into Westernport Bay.

"What we propose is that an authority be set up similar to the Board of Works with members of the councils involved represented," he said. That is e:x;actly what this Bill provides for.

Mr. PORTER.-It was introduced before that statement was made.

Mr. WILKES.-That is so. I am n0't agreeing with him. If the Government is prepared to extend the Board's area as extensively as is provided for in this measure, I cannot understand why it has omitted to take into consideration the importance of the huge development taking place in 'and around the Mornington Peninsula and particularly at Hastings.

What is the situation here? We are already aware of the situation regarding land usage at Westernport. Land there purchased for a mere $200 an acre was subsequently sold for $600 an acre because there wa 3 no zoning a.nd no control over l'and in the area, and the Government and the people of Victoria received no


benefit from this betterment. In my view, that is a matter that Parliament should consider.

However, let us consider the regional planning authorities as they will apply generally and in particular as they will apply in the Westernport area. The Bill provides that a regional planning authority shall consist of-

(a) representatives of every municipality whose district or any part of whose district is within the area of the proposed planning scheme; and

(b) persons appearing to the Governor in Council-

that means the Minister-to be specially qualified by reason of knowledge or experience to serve on the authority-

anrl each such municipality shall be represented by such number of members as is specified in the Order.

When looking at that blanket provision, one naturally thinks of the number of persons who could appear to the Minister to be specially qualified for membership of a regional planning ·authority responsible for planning decisions that could affect an area for 50 years. There is no need for me to discuss the hazards. Such a planning authority could be responsible for determining attitudes of public authorities which could purchase land that they considered might be of value to them, not now but in 20, 30 or 40 years' timein the meantime, that land could He dormant until the authority concerned made use of it. Many other dangers are assoeiated with this propos'al, including some aris-ing from the activities of private persons. No indication is given in the Bill and none has been given by the Minister in another place responsible for this matter-I do not blame the Minister of Public Works-':"'regarding how many private individuals will become members of regional planning authoriNes as against the number who will represent municipalities. Opposition members believe that there is a danger in this type of thinking by the Government with respect to planning. If planning is as important

Mr. Wilkes.

to the Government as we believe it is, and if it is as important to the whole of the State as we know it is, the Government should not push planning into a private authority but should retain public control over it as it affects municipalities.

I assume that as a regional authority in the area under its control, the Board of Works will have additional representatives from municipalities that will be incorporated in the Board's planning area. Consequently, instead of having a membership of 52 representatives of looal counoils, as at present, the Board could have a membership of up to 60. At least, planning will be controlled at that level by elected representatives of the loc-al councils. I cannot imagine that the Board would use the provision cont'ained in clause 10 of the Bill to encourage private individuals. If, in the opinion of the Minister, they appeared to qualify, there would be twice as many comm,is,sioners on the Board as there are now, and this would not be practicable.

Therefore, there is a safeguard in the metropolitan area; but there is no safeguard in those other areas that would be controlled by regional planning authorities, and if private individuals who appeared to have some knowledge of the situation were· appointed to an authority they could exercise all sorts of controls. I do not suggest that they would act in their o'wn interests, but I do suggest that they could institute measures that might be detrimental to the area in the long term. Of course, it is true that any decis,ion of a regional planning authority will have to be approved by the Town and Country Planning Board and perhaps referred to the State Planning Council.

Mr. PORTER.-Obviously, it would have to be approved by the Minister.

Mr. WILKES.-Yes. I am endeavouring to point out that there could be dangers. A decision might be made by a regional planning authority, and it is not difficult to


determine what its functions will be. After a decision had been made, a good deal of expense could be entailed in a time-consuming exercise involving the sending of details to the Town and Country Planning Board and from that Board to the State Planning Council. If a decision closely followed one that had been established by people who had had experience of planning over the past fifteen years, the risk would be considerably reduced; but an ingredient could be injected into it by people whom the Minister considered to have some special knowledge of the area. In the case of Westernport, I should like to know who they would be.

Apart from the shires of Flinders, Hast.ings, Mornington, Cranbourne and Berwick, why would the Government w'ant private individuals to determine planning policy in the area? Why should there be a representative of Esso-B.H.P. or of Lysaghts or any big fertilizer company proposing to establish a factory in the area? Their interest in planning would be purely a commercial one. The Opposition cannot reconcile itself to the view that the Government is doing anything for the community, let alone doing anything' for planning, by initiating propositions in circumst'ances in which, in some cases, private individuals could outvote the representatives of local councils in respect of important planning decisions.

Mr. WHEELER.-You are not suggesting that they would not have as much knowledge as local councillors, are you?

Mr. WILKES.-I do not suggest that they would not have as much knowledge, but they would not have the responsibHities of the councillors, and they would not be an elected body, whether on a restricted franchise or otherwise; nor would they have to answer to anybody.

In answer to an interjection, let me say that perhaps I could have said that it would not be a bad idea

to have appointed to the State Planning Council a represent'ative of the Melbourne Trades Hall Council. I have said that in my view it would be better to have, in addition to those named, a representative of the Local Government Department in the person of Mr. Mithen. Of course I can see virtues in having representatives of the Melbourne Trades Hall Council appointed to an authority of this nature.

The Bill provides also for the appointment of an appeals tribunal to be called the Town Planning Appeals Tribunal. Every honorable member knows how the present system of planning appeals operates, and I do not intend to go into details. Suffice to say that, in the case of an appe,a.l in the metropolitan planning area., .if the Board of Works and the council concerned dismiss an appeal, the appellant can still go before the M-inister or before two delegates appointed by the Minister who will hear the appeal and inspect the site.

Two separate committees-if I m·ay so designate them for want of a better descr.iption-of delegates are appointed by the M,inister for this purpose. One ope·rates in the country area and. one in the metropolitan area, and they hear cases and make recommendations to the Minister; if he sees fit, the Minister may accept the decisions so made and abrogate those of the Board or of the council, or he may do otherwise.

This system has a number of disadvantages. One has been that the appellant has never known why his appeal has been rejected, and because of this principle it has not been possible to establish any case law or any precedents in respect of appeals. In my view, this would have been far less costly in the long term, with people appealing from decisions already made, and reasons being given to substantiate them. However, this system operates at present. It is not a cheap system. Each delegate is paid $15 a case, or $21 a case if reviewing in the country, plus


$25 a day for anyone full day spent in the country. I do not suggest that the delegates are overpaid-far from it-but I contend that this form of appeal system can be quite costly. The Gove·rnment has now decided that it will establish a Town Planning Appeals Tribunal whichsubject to this Act shall hear and determine all appeals against decisions of responsible authorities with respect to applications for permits under interim development orders and planning schemes. It is proposed that the tribunal shall consist of-three members appointed by the Governor in Council of whom-

(a) one who shall be the chairman shall be a barrister and solicitor of the Supreme Court of Victoria;

(b) one shall be a person having experience in town and country planning; and

(c) one shall be a person having knowledge of and experience in public administration commerce or industry.

That is a slight alteration from the proposal embodied in the previous legislation. To 'make the Town Planning Appeals Tribunal more representative, I suppose it is essential to have, as well as a town planner, some person with experience in public administration, commerce or industry or a person who has had experience in all three fields. The appeals tribunal will be a better system than the present procedure because case law will be established and reasons will be given for the decisions. This will reduce the cost of preparing appeals, and thus people who feel aggrieved by town planning decisions will be assisted.

At present, it is difficult to have appeals heard under a system of two delegates and the one appeal tribunal operating throughout the State. Consideration should be given to systems similar to that adopted for the Valuation Appeals Board, where the Government had no hesitation in providing for two or more boards.

Mr. PORTER.-At present the delegates are only part-time. It is proposed that a full-time tribunal shall be established.

Mr. Wilkes.

Mr. WILKES.-Under the present system, it is not easy to have a case heard quickly. Consideration should be given to extending the board.

Mr. PORTER.-That will be done. Mr. WILKES.-The Bill does not

provide for that. The measure proposes to increase from three to four, the number of members on the Town and Country Planning Board. This was done under previous legislation and the Opposition did not object to it. How does the Government propose to finance this planning on a broad basis for Victoria? It has not accepted the views of the Town and Country Planning Board or the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works on how the planning should be financed. In its report, the Board of Works made certain recommendations, but these were rejected. Other suggestions made by the Town and Country Planning Board were also rejected. There is no definite proposal in the Bill how the over-all concept of planning will be financed, and what the State can expect by a planning movement in respect of land, particularly increased land values. Provision is already made for compensation to aggrieved persons for depreciation in land values caused by the actions of planning authorities.

The Opposition suggests that provision should be made for a betterment tax, as is done under English legislation. The Town and Country Planning Board and the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works agree with the principles of betterment rates. Large companies bought huge tracts of land at Westernport at comparatively cheap rates and disposed of them at fantastically inflated prices.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-The land may be cheaper now than it was a year ago.

Mr. WILKES.-That may be so, but the prices paid now are in excess of the purchase price of the land some years ago.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Are you putting the view of the Opposition?


Mr. WILKES.-I shall explain to the Minister of Labour and Industry our views with regard to betterment. The policy of the Opposition in regard to planning is quite clear; it is that, to provide for the needs of the State, there should be a tax on speculators. Owners of land which has increased in value because of the actions of planning authorities should pay much more for the cost of that planning. The community obtains no benefit from speculative land deals. After all, the owner whose land value has decreased because of the actions of planners is compensated.

There should be a charge of 40 per cent. for betterment. In countries where planning has been applied effectively, the Federal authorities have taken some financial interest. There is no reason why the Federal Government should not be interested in planning. After all, anything that this Government does in respect of a properly constituted plan for the whole of Victoria must have an effect on the Federal Government, which, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the Opposition, should accept financial responsibility. In the United States of America, the Federal Government accepts to a degree responsibility for the States in planning just as it accepts responsibility in other spheres. No doubt, the Federal Government will contend that if it has to make a contribution towards planning, it should dictate to the States. However, planning is a State right, and it should remain the State prerogative to plan adequately. Nevertheless, the Federal Government should not dodge its responsibility to contribute to this planning.

A plan may involve a highway connecting two States. The planning and the development will be financed by the States, which will make the necessary acquisitions and resumptions of land. However, the highway may be of major importance for the stra tegic defence of Australia, and this aspect should be considered by the Commonwealth. This is one

example of the Commonwealth Government having a direct interest in planning schemes being undertaken by the States; there are many others.

The Opposition considers that if a speculator bought an area of land near Melbourne for $60,000 for residential development or something of that nature, although its value as a farm was only $40,000, 40 per cent. of the $20,000 unearned increment, which is $8,000 should go to the State. The vendor would get the balance of the $12,000. If, at a later stage, the speculator subdivided the land and sold it for housing sites for $150,000, the community could benefit by 40 per cent. of the balance, after allowing for the deduction of outgoings and subdivisional fees. This is one aspect that could be considered to finance planning in Victoria. There is nothing unusual about it. It is an accepted principle all over the world, particularly in Great Britain and the United States of America.

The Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works and the Town and Country Planning Board have proposed certain other methods in a more variable way by taxing land use. The present alternative is the Board of Works' metropolitan improvement rate, which has now almost reached its ceiling. The metropolitan improvement rate, which is used specifically for planning, is completely inadequate and will be inadequate for the proposals contained in this Bill. The Board of Works has already written to municipalities and suggested that, although councils have been ignored and their rights have been eroded under legislation, they should be expected to do certain things. It has suggested that the councils will determine applications for permits and be responsible on behalf of the Board for the issue of notices of determination, permits and refusals, and consequently will be required, first, to be represented at appeals in support of their decisions; secondly, to enforce their decisions, except that


the Board will retain the responsibility of policing any unlawful uses which are prohibited by the scheme ; thirdly, to submit copies of the applications, and council decisions to the Board for information. Councils will not be able to grant permits for matters prohibited by the scheme, or to issue town-planning certificates in relation to the metropolitan planning scheme. This function will be retained by the Board. This will cost the councils money; they will be expected to contribute, as was pointed out in the letter from the Board, signed by the Chief Planner, Mr. J. A. Hepburn.

Mr. WILTSHIRE.-The councils will make a charge for the permits.

Mr. WILKES.-Of course they will, but there is no relationship between the charge for the permits and the cost. In this case, it will further weigh heavily against the municipalities. There are two types of municipalities; one has spent thousands of dollars in establishing its own planning scheme, and the other has seen fit to operate under the interim development order of the Board. When this Bill becomes law, the interim development order will gradually cease to exist. The council will then be responsible for carrying out the functions nominated by the regional planning authority-in this case the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works. It will take some time for the authority to a9just municipal planning schemes to suit the over-all plan.

The work which municipalities have done cannot be disregarded There is a co-ordinated plan throughout the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works planning area. Unless an interim development order contains special provisions, no factories are permitted in residential areas. Muncipalities have carefully controlled planning schemes by use of by-law power. If they had not done so, there would have been chaos in the metropolitan area. The degree

to which the powers of municipal councils are to be eroded is indicated in clause 2 of the Bill which provides, inter alia-

(1) Sub-section (i) of section 3 of the Principal Act shall be amended as follows :-

(c) In the interpretation of "Responsible authority "-(i) in paragraph (a) for sub-para

graphs (i) and (ii) there shall be substituted the following sub-paragraph :-

"(i) the council of the municipality or the regional planning authority preparing the scheme;" and

(ii) in paragraph (b) for sub-paragraph (i) there shall be inserted the following sub-paragraphs:-" (i) in the case of a scheme pre-

pared by the Board of Works, the Board' of Works to the extent that it has not delegated to the municipal council in whose municipal district the area is situated any powers authorities and responsibilities in relation to the administration enforcement and carrying out of such scheme and the munipal council to the extent that the Board of Works has delegated such powers authorities and responsibilities;

The concern of metropolitan municipalities can be understood. I trust that the Government will take cognizance of the work done by them since 1954 and before. Planning did not start when the Government introduced its first town planning Bill; nor did it start in 1954. There is much evidence of people with great foresight exercising prerogatives bestowed on them with regard to the planning of the Melbourne metropolitan area as far back as 1924. Victoria was the first State to establish a planning commission. The concept of what Parliament is attempting to do to-day and the philosophy of planning of that commission, which was established in 1924, is outlined in its report made in 1929, the foreword to which states-

The unmistakable tendency of cities to increase rapidly in population and expansiveness should forcibly impress upon all legislators and administrators the desirability


of taking steps in due time to provide for the necessities of the future. The lessons to be learnt from the absence of such a policy may be found in the extensive and costly reconstruction schemes which have taken place in many cities. It is now generally realized that if a city is to serve best its true functions it must have guidance and control in development according to a well-considered plan. In this way only can economy in public expenditure as well as efficiency and comfort be enjoyed by the various classes of people who constitute its population. Prudent expenditure at an opportune time will obviate much larger expenditure in days to come.

The truth of those words is now apparent.

Wise planning in relation to constructive developmental works can provide for many future public needs, and, if not exercised the result is that impassable barriers are created which will make it impracticable except at huge cost to furnish the com1?unity with facilities that can now be predIcted as future necessities. The endeavours of the Commission have been directed to the formulation of proposals which, if carried out gradually, it believes will ensure that the requirements of a rapidly growing population are provided for in the most economical manner, and with a view to -the welfare of the people generally. Melbourne, it is believed, is destined to become a really great city. It has many noble proportions and outstanding advantages, but if the foundations already laid are to have a worthy superstructure its future ~ust ever be kept in mind. These consideratIons have been always before the Commission in its work.

Parliament is now laying down a basis for the planning which was suggested by that commission. If planning is not approached in this business-like way, the effects of lack of planning which the commission set out would have to be overcome. Although the members of the commission did not envisage everything that has happened in Melbourne since 1929, they came close to doing so.

Victoria needs a single, supreme planning authority. and for that reason the Opposition supports the Bill. In the Committee stage, I may make certain suggestions about matters which I have not mentioned in this speech, because I want to cover the situation as comprehensively as I can. My thanks are due to the former honorable member for

Flemington for his efforts in studying the Bin presented in 1967, and for his staternents during the debate on that Bill. His capacity for evaluating measures of this type has made it easier for the members of my party to consider the present Bill. Apart from the suggestions I have made to improve the Bill, we offer no opposition to this measure, and we wish it a speedy passage.

Mr. WHEELER (Essendon).-The principles of this Bill had their first airing during the previous session of Parliament, when a similar Bill made an impact on the community and particularly on honorable members of this Assembly. Possibly for the first time, that Bill produced a widespread interest in an over-all planning scheme to apply throughout Victoria. The position is clearly summarized in a report to the Minister for Local Government on the future growth of Melbourne, prepared by the Town and Country Planning Board. At page 49, the report states-

In this Report the Board has stressed that the growth problems of Melbourne can no longer be resolved on a metropolitan scale-that a new concept, embracing a much wider area and resulting from much greater participation, is needed for a population which in a relatively short time will be twice what it is to-day. The principles which were advocated in Melbourne in 1929 and by Mumford in 1938 have not been altered-only the scale and degree of complexity have changed.

Honorable members are well aware of the degree of change in the complexity of the problem. Statistics were prepared and, at page 4, the report states-

In Victoria the national and general world pattern is reflected. Between 1961 and 1966, the State's population increased from 2,930,113 to 3,217,832. This was an increase of 287,719, or 9.8 per cent. over a five-year period.

It is now envisaged that within 30 years the population of Melbourne will reach 5,000,000. This population explosion will bring with it a change in the pa.ttern of transport and a movement in the work force, because of the type of environment in which


the work force desires to live. It is futile for anyone to attempt to give a positive direction to people on how and where they should live. However, the time has come when it is not beyond reason to believe that satellite towns will spring up around Melbourne almost as fast as municipalities have grown to city status within the past few years.

The Bill increases the size of the Town and Country Planning Board from three members to four. It also sets up an appeals tribunal and a State Planning Council. This is the crux of the matter and the provision from which the State will derive most benefit. The Bill also provides for a regional planning authority and, to some extent, for local planning. Planning in Victoria came into operation many years later than it should have, but what happened in the past cannot be mended. Besides the planning authority envisaged by the Bill, I believe there will also be a State planning advisory council. Because of the population explosion and the general development of Victoria, this is most important.

I am amazed at the public apathy to planning. This arises from many causes. People have a divided interest between the places in which they work and those in which they live. At one time, when open spaces were common, people were prepared to live close to their work and, as a result, they had a particular interest in the area. They contributed to the necessary community services and created a public spirit and interest in the area. With the coming of the affluent society, and as the Melbourne metropolitan area and some other places became more congested, people wanted to live away from the place in which they worked because they believed that this gave them some greater social standing. As a result, they became apathetic about the areas in which they worked. At the same time, other problems were created. For instance,

Mr. Wheeler.

it became necessary to provide roads and services for the new living areas. These problems must be faced to-day, and that is why planning as envisaged in the Bill is so necessary. Subdividers have little inclination to provide services and amenities sO' that communities will be better places in which to live. Their sole purpose in subdividing land is to obtain as much money as possible; the first clause in their "bible" is "divide and mis-rule".

The planning system must be drastic and creative if communities in this affluent society are to be as we desire them to be. We seem to suffer from a peculiar apathy, with no real feeling of pride and responsibility in the community in which we live O'r work; home appears to be just somewhere to escape from the environment of the industrialized areas. There are many small organizations in a community which set themselves up for specific purposes with little or no appreciation of the over-all requirements of a wellplanned social community.

These problems are not peculiar to Victoria; they exist throughout the world. I obtained from the Library a book entitled Great Cities of the World, in which the author, W. A. Robson, discusses some of the planning problems that are prevalent elsewhere. It is fair to say that no city O'r town can become an autonomous unit; it is dependent on the cities and towns around it. It is foolish for a person to think that one municipality can implement a successful plan if neighbouring municipalities also do not undertake planning schemes. A city should not be planned in isolation; there must be co-O'rdination and co-operation from the surrounding areas, whether they are rural or semi-rural areas. An over-all planning scheme is a necessity; otherwise the cities will be choked.

It is obvious that a large municipality which is surrounded by a large number of smaller municipalities will be strangled unless an over-all


planning system is put into effect which will provide an environment in which people desire to live. It is true that some people have little regard for parks, play-grounds and other similar amenities. The recent discovery of great natural resources in Victoria demands that proper planning should be undertaken sO' that these resources may be used to the best advantage.

Transport also plays a large part in the development of a State, and in particular of any municipality or city. Problems related to' transport are facing planners not only in Victoria but in all other countries, and the solution to these problems is difficult to find. We are fortunate in Victoria and in Australia that great open spaces exist so that it is possible to set aside reservations and to implement planning schemes which will be appreciated by the generations to' follow.

So far as housing is concerned, in metropolitan areas to-day the trend is to construct huge multi-storied buildings and high-rise flats. These developments have led to dense concentrations of population, and, if proper planning is not instituted and open spaces set aside as breathing spaces for the people, the population will become miserable looking specimens. The younger generation must be provided with ample playing areas in which to develop. Over the past ten or twenty years, people have shown a desire to use their own motor vehicles in which to travel to and from work'. Planners must recognize this fact and make provision for roads and adequate parking space.

In the book to which I referred earlier there appears an article in relation to the City of Manchester in England, which is a highly industrialized city. The work force of that city, following considerable success as business people, decided to live away from the city area. The result, through lack of adequate planning, is a drawnout city. The stage has now been reached-it would have happened in

Victoria if there had been no proper planning--where the city of Manchester is strangled because there are insufficient traffic outlets.

I believe that, within the next few years, areas on the outskirts of the Melbourne and metropolitan area will develop to a far greater extent than has been anticipated by the planners. FactO'ries and offices must be established outside the metropolitan area and new development must be encouraged in satellite towns.

Mr. GINIFER.-How would you encourage development of satellite towns?

Mr. WHEELER.-We must establish industries in those towns.

Mr. GINIFER.-Whom do you mean by "we"?

Mr. WHEELER.-I believe this is a Govermnent responsibility. By the turn of the century, the population of Melbourne is expected to be 5,000,000 persons. I consider that towns such as Werribee, Sunbury and Whittlesea will greatly increase in size, and that those areas also must adopt planning schemes. It is useless to think that people will live in those areas if the industries in which they are employed are not located nearby. This is another problem which the planners must tackle. Provision must be made for industries and offices to accommodate the work force in such areas so that congestion on the' roads will be relieved. I believe this fact has been overlooked in recent years.

Mr. WILKES.-No matter what action is taken, 80 per cent. of the people will live in the metropolitan area.

Mr. WHEELER.-Neither the honorable member for Northcote nor I can alter human nature, and it seems to be the desire of many people to live in a city.

Mr. GINIF'ER.-It will be necessary to direct labour away from the city.

Mr. WHEELER.-Labour must be encouraged to work elsewhere than in the city. It is useless merely to


construct a lot of houses in a particular area unless industries are established in the near vicinity to satisfy the needs of the work force. This Government does not direct people where they should work and has never done so.

Mr. GINIFER.-Country factories will not obtain sufficient labour otherwise ; I remind the honorable member of what has happened at the Shepparton abattoirs.

Mr. WHEELER.-I am surprised that the honorable member for Deer Park should favour the directing of labour to any particular locality. If a suitable environment is provided and industries are established, there will be no necessity for direction ; the people will leave the city of their own accord.

The main features of the Bill require to be discussed in greater detail in Committee. I was surprised at the reference of the honorable member for Northcote to the proposed Town Planning Appeals Tribunal. I believe this is one of the best features of the Bill. I have never been particularly happy about the fact that two delegates are appointed by the Minister to hear the parties to appeals. Last year the tribunal heard approximately 380 appeals. I do not think the existing system has operated in the best interests of either party, and there has been a particularly heavy burden on the delegates. I believe the setting up of the Town Planning Appeals Tribunal will relieve the pressure on the Minister and the delegates. The Bill provides that the Town Planning Appeals Tribunal shall consist of three members, one of whom shall be the chairman and shall be a barrister and solicitor.

Mr. CLAREY.-Why should he be a barrister and solicitor?

Mr. WHEELER.-I believe it is important that one member should have a knowledge of the law. The second member shall be a person having experience in town and country planning, and the third member shall be a person having a

knowledge of and experience in public administration, commerce or industry. In my opinion, a tribunal which consists of three members with those qualifications will constitute a satisfactory triO' in deciding claims.

It is also proposed to increase the number of members of the Town and Country Planning Board from three members to four members. I believe this is a necessary step because the Bill provides that, in the preparation of a statement of planning policy for any area, the Board shall have regard to-

(a) demographic, social and economic factors and influences;

(b) conservation of natural resources for social, economic, environmental, ecological and scientific purposes;

(c) characteristics of land;

(d) characteristics and disposition of land use;

(e) amenity and environment;

(f) communications; and

(g) development requirements of public authorities.

There is a wide field to be taken in to consideration and, for that reason, I believe the choice of the State Planning Council is a very wise one.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition said that there was to be no representation on the council of the Local Government Department, but paragraph (c) of sub-section (2) of the proposed new section 8B provides-that one member shall be the chai~man of the Coun try Roads Board or some person nominated by him in writing to act in his stead. That certainly has a small local government flavour. Paragraph (g) refers to the Secretary for Public Works or some person nominated by him, and that also has a local government flavour. Paragraph (i) refers to the chairman of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, so it is evident that when the panel


which will form the State Planning Council was considered some thought was given to representation by local governmen t bodies.

I believe the Bill to be a good one and one which is long overdue because, by virtue of modern transport, Victoria is becoming smaller every day. There are built-up areas practically the whole of the way from Melbourne to Mornington. Similarly, there are many areas of settlement between Melbourne and Geelong, and there is rapid expansion of housing and industry in Craigieburn and many other areas. There has been a population explosion in every major town in Victoria, and unless an overall State planning authority is estab!ished cities and towns will develop In a most haphazard manner. This would not be in the best interests of the people of this State. I shall reserve the remainder of my remarks until the Committee stage.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).Although I believe that the future will show that this Bill has shortcomings, I agree with the honorable member for Essendon that it is necessary and overdue. The lack of planning during the horse and buggy era has resulted in the present problems, which affect not only Melbourne but also other cities in Victoria. I am aware in particular of the Geelong area. I believe that in the future, problems will arise fro~ the relationship between regional authorities and various municipalities, because, under the Bill, it is proposed that finances of the regional authori ties shall be provided by the various councils in the area on a pro rata basis. Friction will ultimately arise because ratepayers of one municipality will, naturally at times, be required to provide more money than is spent in their municipality. For example, in a particular year a council may have to provide $10,000 to the regional authority, but the authority may decide to spend only $1,000 in the municipality in that year.

Members of the Opposition believe that the over-all idea behind this Bill is correct. However, individual municipal councillors will have to take the kicks from ratepayers. If a regional authority were extravagant, it could make things embarrassing for councils. The regional authority may decide that one council is to contribute 10 per cent. of the over-all fund, and this may a'mount to only a few hundred dollars; but with the tremendous growth and development that is taking place in certain parts of the State, in a few years this sum could amount to :S5,000. This would impede any council in its planning and budgeting for the future, because it would not be aware of the expenditure of the regional authority three or four years hence.

As I have said, I think friction will arise, and :measures may have to be taken to give the regional authorities greater independence in the matter of fund raising.

Mr. MU1lToN.-Where would the finance come from?

Mr. TREZISE.---lIt could come from many sources, some of which have been mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition and the honorable member for Essendon. Ultimately, I suppose, the whole burden will be borne by ratepayers. One problem arises from the fact that certain people will, because they are not ratepayers, be exempt from bearing their share of the burden. Residents of boarding houses or hotels, and young people who own motor cars will share the benefits of town planning development but will make no contribution towards i t8 cost. It is to be hoped that the finance can be raised in a more equitable manner, and that the whole of the burden should not fall on ratepayers.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition explained the systems operating overseas under which the Government contributes funds to planning authorities. I think that in Canada 75 per cent. of funds required for


planning schemes are contributed by the Government of the day. The honorable member also mentioned the imposition of a betterment tax. The Opposition believes this method of raising the necessary funds should be considered, because in this way the money is obtained from those people who benefit from developmental projects carried out by a regional authority. I refer, for instance, to estate agents and others who benefit financially from sub-divisions; and transport service operators whose business is increased and whose services can be speeded up by the provision of new roads. This revenue would assist an authority to compensate owners of residences that are required to enable freeways to be constructed. A person of 70 or 80 years of age who has lived in the same house for 40 or 50 years may not w'ant to move and, righUy or wrongly, will hang out for a better price and thus receive an extra $3,000 or $4,000. Increased values of properties resulting from developmental projects could be the subject of a betterment tax. This form of tax, on a 50-50 basis, was introduced in England during the early post-war years, but I believe it no longer exists. I do not know the reason for its disappearance.

Mr. WILKEs.-There is provision for it in the English legislation, but it is no longer used.

Mr. TREZISE.-I believe that people who benefit from developmental projects should make a contribution, and I believe that it is a Govern'ment responsibility to ensure this.

Members of the Opposition believe that there is a weakness in proposed new section 8B, contained in clause 8 of the Bill. It has been said that no provision is made for the Local Government Department to be represented on the State Planning Council. I suggest that a new paragraph (m) should be added at the end of subsection (2) of the proposed new section to provide for representation on the council of any other body following a decision of the Governor

in Council. I am surprised that gas undertakings are not represented on the council, especially with the development of natural gas and the network of pipe-lines being installed throughout the State, and I suggest that consideration should be given to the inelusion of a representative of the gas industry. In the future bodies will be formed to deal with the use of atomic energy; therefore, consideration should be given to the insertion of a new paragraph which will provide for representation of any future such bodies on the State Planning Council.

Although town planning is to be the function of the various bodies named in the Bill, I believe it is the responsibility of the Government to give leadership and to establish a planning policy which will result in the development of our public transport system, thus avoiding the demand for an ever-increasing number of freeways and the establishment of a multiplicity of car parks in the metropolitan area and in urban cities. It is estimated that in 30 years' time the population of Melbourne will total 5,000,000 people, but we do not know, and we are not told, whether at that stage we shall have an underground railway; nor whether the raHway line between the two leading cities of Victoria, Melbourne and Geelong, wiU have been duplicated.

Cars are becoming a menace to society. It is a disgrace that it takes longer for trains to travel the distance between Geelong and Melbourne than it did 100 years ago. Yesterday I received a letter from a gentleman in my electorate enclosing a copy of the Geelong Times of Tuesday, 2nd December, 1879. It contained a Victorian railway timetable indicating that a train left from Melbourne at 4.10 p.m. and reached Geelong at 5.15 p.m., the time taken for the journey being 65 minutes. According to the current timetable, a train departs from Melbourne at 4 p.m. and arrives in Geelong at 5.19 p.m., the time taken for the journey being 79 minutes, or 14 minutes longer than in 1879.

Town and Country [12 MARCH, -1968.] Planning (Amendment) Bill. 357]

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member should relate this argument to the Bill.

Mr. TREZISE.-Mr. Speaker I have said that the main function of town planning is to overcome the problems caused by to-day's traffic, and I believe that if the Government could develop our public transport system that problem would be overcome.

Another matter of concern is the Geelong to Melbourne highway, which was the subject of a question on to-day's Notice Paper. The highway is becoming blocked with motor cars at week-ends and holidays because many people are forced to use it for the reason that public transport is not attractive. This creates more work for the regional authorities. If our public transport system were developed realistically, I am sure that many people would use it rather than use the roads which are choked with traffic.

The problems which have arisen in cities with respect to the establishmen t of car parks and construction of freeways are fully stated in an article in the magazine, Prospect, which is the bulletin of the Melbourne Division of the Australian Planning Institute. It is contained in issue No.3 of April, 1957, under the heading " Coordinated Transport ", and reads:-

Other countries have established that concentration on freeways alone even if finance were readily available is not the answer to traffic congestion. The essential need is balanced transportation. Co-ordinated rail, buses, and trams in co-operation with large perimeter car parks ringing the central city areas has proved to be a reliable solution.

San Francisco is building the first wholly new public transit system to be built in the U~ited Stat~s of America in fifty years and thIS co-ordmated system embraces rail, trams, and buses. The project is being undertaken as the result of the decision of citizens of the metropolitan area. The highly successful public vote provided the bond issue to finance this project and it was due to the fact that the electorate were shown what they would face in the way of future taxation if traffic congestion were to continue.

The National Capital Planning Commission in Washington, D.C., through their Land Use Study, have clearly demonstrated that the

assessors records show the city now has 30 per cent. of its area absorbed in highways along with 35 per cent. of its area in tax free land, leaving 30 per cent. remaining on which to derive the Property Tax. Can Melbourne afford to set aside similar vast areas required for freeways? This must be a warning to us all. Unless these regional planning authorities are given active support and finance to ease the load that will be thrust upon their shoulders, Victoria will have a great burden to carry in years to come. The Labor Party supports the Bill. Although it has certain shortcomings, the Bill represents an attempt to help bodies connected with town planning in Victoria.

Mr. HAYES (Scoresby).-This Bill will introduce an alteration in the pattern of Victorian development over the next 20 or 30 years. I am pleased to note that the Opposition, although it suggests certain modifications, commends the Bill and wishes it a speedy passage. Therefore, all members appreciate that the Bill will improve strategic town and country planning in Victoria, and approve of the measures adopted.

I desire to comment on one or two suggestions which were made by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. It is always difficult to know when to stop adding members to any commit: tee. There may be various opinions on the matter in this Chamber, but I support the inclusion on the State Planning Council of a representative of local government, either an officer of the Loca.l Government Department or a representative of local government bodies. To my mind, town and country planning necessarily deeply involves local government.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition also suggested that planning funds could be augmented by way of a tax on speculative land sale profits. I think it is fair to indicate that in the Local Government (Amendment) Bill, introduced in another place, opportunity will be provided for local government bodies to recoup, on a retrospective basis, rates consequent on rezoning which they may apply in financing town planning or other works.


In my opinion, the proposed extension in the planning area under the control of the Board of Works does two things. First, it will ease the prablems encauntered by auter municipalities in the preservatian af natural resources. I see nO' reasan why the Dandenongs should be preserved mainly from lacal funds when mast citizens af Melbaurne enjay the Dandenongs from week-end to' weekend. The bulk of Melbaurne people should contribute towards the preservatian af this impartant area.

Mr. ROSSITER.-What about the beaches?

Mr. HA YES.-I am concerned with the Dandenangs. With the threefald expansion of the Melbourne and Metrapalitan Board af Warks planning area, some attempt should be made to decentralize the Board's facilities. TaO' often, peaple fram auter areas are incanvenienced when they are required to' visit the Board's central office. The Board should pravide, in due caurse, clase to' hame facilities far peaple who wish to' inspect plans ar to' inquire abaut zaning applicatians.

This Bill has been introduced during the last year of service of one af the members af the Tawn and Country Planning Board. I refer to Calanel Kemsley, a man whO' has given many years to town and cauntry planning. I knaw that he is a friend of many members af this Hause, and he is one whO' has been more clasely assaciated with tawn planning than, perhaps, any ather person in Australia. I feel that it is a happy coincidence that, in his year af retirement, one af his life-lang ambitions will be realized.


Mr. MUTTON (Caburg).-Generally I support the Bill. I compliment the honorable member for Northcote, the Deputy Leader af the Opposition, far the manner in which he presented the views af the Oppositian an the measure. I do not think the honarable member missed one item that was warthy af ventilatian in respect af

this complex piece of legislation. Obviously the functions af the State Planning Council to be set up under the Bill are designed to streamline tawn and cauntry planning, and to' benefit many peaple whO' are bath directly and indirectly concerned with present and future planning.

It seems iranic that, far same unknawn reasan, the Department cancerned with the drafting of the Bill amitted to include a representative af the Local Gavernment Department an the State Planning Cauncil. I cannat understand the reasan far this. As far back as 1949, when the Government af the day intraduced legislatian to' set up the Tawn and Country Planning Board, it saw fit to appoint a lacal governing authority to' prepare and administer plans in the metrapalis. I think it is almast a slight ar an insult to the Lacal Gavernment Department not to pravide far its representation on the new cauncil. A report submitted to the Minister far Lacal Government by the Town and Cauntry Planning Board, at the hanarable gentleman's request, an the future growth af Melbaurne was, it is stated an the frant page af the report, furnished in response to the Minister's letter of the 3rd May, 1966. Sa it must be accepted that the Minister for Local Government is very interested in the future planning af the State.

As honorable members will agree, planning is a complicated subject. When the original legislation was enacted by the Parliament af this State in 1949, many members af the legal profession canvassed metrapolitan municipalities, informing them that if they did nat attempt to' prepare some farm af planning scheme they wauld lase cantral aver planning, which wauld be vested in the Melbourne and Metrapalitan Board of Warks, and that the loss af these powers would prabably jeopardize the growth af their municipalities. Subject to correction, I think abaut twelve municipalities immediately began to prepare planning schemes which, in due caurse, were submitted


to the Town and Country Planning Board, and approved by the Minister. These councils spent up to about $6,000 or $8,000 on a planning scheme to be administered locally in the best interests of the municipality and the metropolis in general. I believe that, under this measure, it is probable that some of these approved planning schemes will be taken over by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works when the Government accepts the master plan, as distinct from an interim development order or temporary measure.

When the Board of Works was given the added function of a planning authority, fourteen years ago, it was given certain powers to prepare and administer a planning scheme. But the Board has not yet had a master plan approved by any Government. However, municipalities which have prepared and had approved their own planning scheme, on which they have expended money, are to have this power taken away from them. In my view the enterprise of these municipalities must be recognized and they must be given ample opportunity to cooperate with the responsible authorities, including the Board of Works, before their planning schemes are taken over.

There is one part of the Bill in respect of which I am at a loss. There appears to be an inconsistency in the Government's introduction of this legislation. Recently the Government set up a committee to inquire into the Board of Works in so far as its responsibility for water supply is concerned. Apparently the Government did not agree with what the Board was endeavouring to do in the best interests of the people of the metropolis. But the same Government is saying to the Board, cc You might not be any good at getting water for the metropolis, but at least we recognize your ability as' a planning authority". Under the Bill, the area for which the Board will be responsible for planning is to be increased from 688 to 2,011 square miles.

Session 1968.-134.

I now wish to refer to the question of represen.tation oil the Board. In 1966, when the Board was to be reconstituted, it submitted recommendations to the Government which gave special recognition to the Shire of Frankston, an area which did not contribute to the Board any general metropolitan rate but did contribute a planning rate. On the basis of this contribution, the Government gave the Shire of Frankston representation on the Board. I point out that if that precedent is to be used as a yardstick, when the Board's planning area is increased to 2,011 square miles the representation on the Board will increase from 52 to 150 members. It is incongruous that this measure should be submitted to the House for honorable members to debate without a proper investigation of this aspect having been made.

Another important aspect of the measure is the question of compensation. Provision is made in clause 21 for certain responsible Departments to make compensation payments expeditiously. The question of compensation is one of the main bugbears in regard t6 planning. Under its interim development order, the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works is empowered to place a blanket order over certain properties without advising persons who are likely to be affected. On the other hand, when the Board exercises its power to acquire property under treaty, the person concerned must be notified immediately. Thus the machinery of providing compensation is put in nlotion expeditiously. In the case of blanket orders, the unfortunate person concerned has to take the initiative. When he finds out orally that the planning authority intends to acquire his property at some future date, he does not know whether he is hearing an accurate statement or whether it is just a figment of someone's imagination. Thus he makes an approach to a local councillor or member of Parliament, or gets in touch with the Board.

3574 .... ~ 'Town and (Jountry·. [ASSEMBLY.] Planni1Jg; (Amendment) Bill.

When he learns that the authority intends to acquire his property he must obtain a valuation-and this is the point I am mostly concerned about. When he submits his valuation it is rejected by the Board of Works as unsuitable; the Board then submits its own figures, and naturally the owner rebels. The owner has to force the issue by preparing a phoney plan, submitting it to the Board, and having it rejected so that he can legally claim compensation. This procedure wastes a tremendous amount of time.

My recommendation to the Government is that when a responsible authority places a blanket order over a person's property, it should ensure that the owner is paid ·adequate compensation. The individual should not be obliged to employ solicitors and others to protect his rights. Any authority empowered to undertake planning is sadly lacking in finance. Probably, it suits the Board of Works or any other planning authority to use these stealthy methods instead of compulsorily acquiring land, leaving the unfortunate person affected to seek compensation by using his own finance and ,initiative.

I refer to' amounts of money that have been raised by the Board of Works. I cite the Board because, as I understand the purpose of the Bill, apart from providing for the setting up of regional authorities it recognizes the Board as the most efficient planning authority operating in the State. The Government must take notice of the amount of money that the Board has raised in the considerable number of years in which it has been functioning as a planning authority. Probably every person with some political knowledge realizes that the Roads (Special Projects) Fund was designed to assist the Board of Works to carry out urgent projects. Under its charter, the Board cannot raise sufficient revenue to pay compensation to owners of land acquired and to build roads, freeways, overpasses and the like. I propose to give figures to substantiate my statement.

Mr. Mutton.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-The Opposition opposed the Bill that led to the establishment of the Roads (Special Projects) Fund.

Mr. MUTTON.-At this juncture, I am speaking on behalf of the people of the electorate of Coburg. These residents, particularly those who live in the City of Coburg itself, will be affected by the provisions of the Bill, because part of that municipality is covered by an approved planning scheme. In 1956, the equivalent of .4 of a cent in the $1 raised the small sum of $420,000 for the Board of Works. In 1966, when the rate was increased to 1'.25 cents in the $1, the sum of $4,560,000 was raised. In 1967, the rate was increased from 1.25 cents to 1.4 cents, and as a result $5,136,447 was raised. A report produced by the Board of Works and entitled The Future Growth of Melbourne will bear out my statement. The maximum rate that the Board is empowered to levy is 1.66 cents in the $1, and that point has almost been reached.

It may be of interest to members who have not had time to study the report of the Board of Works if I read a passage under· the heading " Finance". I still consider that the Board, which carries out work in the metropolis fot the benefit of twothirds of the population of the State, performs functions almost equal to those performed by this House. Paragraph 10 of the report reads-

The activities referred to in this report will require substantial finance. The present source of revenue available to the Board through the metropolitan improvement rate will need to be increased principally for construction and compensation purposes. There is a need for this source of revenue to be spread over a wider section of the community than the ratepayer alone.

I make bold to say that those statements come from responsible men who have been elevated to the status of 'planning advisers-men whom we should heed, irrespective of whether we are Parliament'arians, commissioners of the Board, or municipal councillors. Unless sufficient money


is provided to enable effect to b.e given to the provisions of this Bill, 1t is a waste of time for Parliament to pass it.

I am concerned about the proposed establishment of regional planning authorities. It is envisaged that a group of mun.icipalities .will form a regional plannIng authorIty. According to my perusal of the B~ll, the~e authorities will have to raIse theIr own revenue within their own areas to finance their planning schemes. This matter is getting completely out of hand. It appears to me that planning is too big a responsibility for a local authority such as the Bo~rd ~f Works. Because of its complexIty, It is even too big for the State of Victoria. In my opinion, all the States must be assisted by the Commonwealth Government, which should recognize the problems of the States and of municipal councils an.d should provide the finance that IS necessary for efficient to~n pl~nning. If action along those lmes IS not taken, State Governments and local governing authorities will be in a very serious predicament.

It is not the State Government that brings 50,000 people into Melbourne each year. This is ~ re.sult. of !he Federal Government s 'ImmIgratIon scheme. The State Government and local councils are embarrassed by this influx of people. As soop ~s. a State Government finds that It IS m some financial difficulty, it adopts the simple expedient of having prepared and accepted by Parliament Bills which have the effect of passing the responsibility to local governing bodies both to carry out and to finance necessary works.

Mr. WHEELER.-Oh!

Mr. MUTTON.-The honorable member for Essendon can say " Oh ", but I have had seventeen years' experience as a 'municipal councillor and of planning problems.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member should discuss planning as such.

Mr. MUTTON.-I have always believed that the fundamental duty of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works is to provide water and sewerage services for the people of the metropolis and that it should never have been shackled with planning responsibilities. Parliament should have established a Government planning Department for this purpose. The people of the metropolitan area pay twice for all the benefits that they receive under the town planning legislation administered by the Board of Works. People who live in the area 'Of 688 square miles which is under the jurisdiction of the Board pay twice-once in the form of income tax and again to the Board per rnedium of the metropolitan planning rate. The commitments of metropolitan ratepayers have become top heavy and they cannot carry much more. This is especially true of finance for planning purposes.

A person who lives outside the Board's area of 688 square miles is in a different position. In passing, I point out that the area under the Board's jurisdiction measures about 25 miles at its widest point. Any person who lives outside this area does not contribute one cent to the metropolitan planning rate, but by using an automobile he can drive into the area covered by the Board's jur·isdiction and enjoy all the privileges and benefits paid for by metropolitan ratepayers. The longer one lives and the longer one is connected with the essence of democracy-local government-the ltlOre one is convinced that local governing bodies are reaching the limit of their financial resources.

Mr. BILLING.-Aren't we all? Mr. MUTTON.-That may be so.

When any rnember delivers a speech, he is sincere in the statements that he makes, and I respect him and give him credit for his contribution. At present, I am. trying to place my views before the House. Planning is extremely irnportant. Our way of life has been changed a great deal not so much by the influx of immigrants but by the uncontrolled growth and


develapment af the autamabile.· The Gavernment and municipal cauncils have been forced to' spend untold millions of dollars to provide overpasses, freeways, parking areas, and sO' an, because it seems impossible to control phases of an apparently pseudo-affluent society.

Mr. DUNSTAN .-What is pseudo about it?

Mr. MUTTON.-I say pseudo because it is a false prosperity. I hope to have the opportunity of proving how falsely prosperous our affluent society ils. People are encouraged to live beyond their means. Young people have to sac~ifice their normal way of life to bring multiple incomes into the home to keep the family going. This gives point to my statement that it is not so much the influx of people that causes the Government to bring down a Bill of this nature but the growth in the use of motor vehicles.

A report submitted to the Minister f'Or Local Government by the Town and Country Planning Board states at page 26-

While population grows rapidly, at around 2.5 per cent. per annum, reaching 3 per cent. in urban areas, car registrations are growing at 5 per cent. per annum.

Mr. SCANLAN.-You say that we are in a decadent society. What about reading the next three lines?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order!

Mr. MUTTON.-I think you will agree with me on this ,matter, Mr. Speaker, because I classify you as a most intelligent man.

The SPBAKER.-Order! The honorable member for Coburg-on the Bill!

Mr. MUTTON.-I think you will agree with me, Sir, that the report indicates that even though assumptions are made on the basis of an increase in population, authorities must take heed of the figures contained in the report to which I have referred about the increased use of automobiles. I acknowledge that it

is not a carrect yardstick to use individually, but it does canvey to' honorable members the greatly increased use being made of motor vehicles in this State.

A responsible public authority should make a definite statement that such and such an area of land will be taken over in ten or fifteen years. This would dispel any rumours. I cite the casle of the Lord Raglan Hotel in the City of Richm'Ond. This p~operty was in the line of the proposed secondary freeway. The owner of the hotel was a shrewd businessman. He heard that the highway would be developed in the next fifte~n years, and he endeavoured to obtain c'OmpensatiO'n. He prepared a plan and submitted it to the Board; he set machinery in train and instructed his solicitor to take action so that the Board could not refuse to pay compensation. He was bought out by the Melbourne and MetrO'politan Board of Works, and the Board then found itself the owner of an hotel which it did not wish to demolish because its plans for the proposal were not to be carried intO' effect for some years. The Board then had to lease the property back to the original owner. That indicates the oomplexity at present inv'Olved in the acquisition of property.

I have received letters from several constituents whO' are in a dilemma; they wish to know whether their property will be acquired for secondary roadways. In one case, a lady bought a block of land adjoining her home foor the future use of one of her children. She was told by another person that the land was likely to be acquired by the Board some ten or twelve years hence. She approached me to find out whether the statement was true. I told her that, from my inquiries, the Board would acquire the land. This lady is now involved in some financial embarrassment. She does n'Ot want to sell the land but the auth'Ority will ultimately acquire it. She must now prepare a phoney set of plans to submit to the Board and have them rejected.

Town and Country [12. MARCH, 1968.] Planning (Amendment) Bill. 3577

She must employ a solicitor to ensure that she gets just compensation. The Board will reject the compensation claim and submit its own valuation. It will then be necessary for this lady to go to further expense to prove her claim.

The Bill should be amended to provide that responsible authorities connected with planning must reach early finalization of their plans so that land owners lare not placed in jeopardy over a long period of time. The Bill has some merits because it will streamline some of the present planning problems. Planning in Victoria will be successful only when the Federal Government recognizes the problems of this State in raising the required finance to cope with its development.

Mr. DUNSTAN (Dromana).-This House should note that, during the passage of this vital Bill,members of the Country Party are conspicuous by their absence. The provisions of the measure cover not only the ·metropolitan area-as ,was so clearly explained by the M,inister of Public Works in his secondreading speech and by the Minister for Loc-al Government in another place in his Ministerial statementbut are vital to the planning of the State as a whole. It is difficult to understand why 'members of the Country Party have absented themselves from the debate.

Mr. STIRLING.-YOU should have a Country Party member in your area.

Mr. DUNSTAN.---'Members of the Country Party are obviously not at the Moscow Circus because they ·can learn nothing about poliN-cal acrobatics. The ten absent members of a supposedly responsible party have gravely insulted the ParHament. Their attitude to this debate is alien to this institution. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition was playing politics ,instead of making a constructive contribution to the debate, as is his normal practice. He might have received a deliberate briefing and been badly misled; in f.act, it is

obvious who briefed him. This is the second time during this sessional period when, disappointingly, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has failed miserably to do his homework and to relate to certain aspects of this measure. I have some sympathy with him because he is more acting Leader than Deputy Leader of his party. He has a very full plate in leading his members in the frequent absence of his Leader.

I wish to put the record ,straight so far as the people of the Westernport and Mornington Peninsula areas are concerned. To date, their views have not been presented accurately. In the Committee stage, a number of amendments will be submitted by the Government and by the Opposition.

Mr. WILKES.-YOU know more than does the Minister.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-When I finish giving the official view of the shires of Hastings and Cranbourne, the Deputy Leader of the Opppos,iHon may have the chance to rephrase some of the anticipated and ill-found amendments, of whose orig.ins there is no doubt.

Mr. WILKES.-I have no amendments to propose.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-If the amendments are to carry out the wishes of the munidpalities concerned, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition should listen carefully to my remarks which represent the official v,iews. In a letter da.ted 8th March, 1968, to the Minister for Local Government, on behalf of the Shire of Cranbourne, the shire engineer st'ated-

The description of the proposed extent of the Metropolitan Area contained in the Bill includes an extension of the present Metropolitan Planning Scheme boundary to include a further 135 sq. miles (approx.) of the Shire of Cranbourne.

The planning schemes at present in operation in this Shire, are as follows :-

(a) Metropolitan Planning Scheme Portion of Cranbourne Riding,

Area = 18 sq. miles

3578 . Town and Country [ASSEMBLY.]." Planning' (Amendment) Bill .

(b) Cranboume (Township) Planning Scheme 1960. Portion of Cranbourne Rid-ing,

Area = 12 sq. miles (c) Cranbourne (Part Cranboume

and Tooradin Riding) Planning Scheme 1963. Balance' of Cranbourne Riding, of area

= 32 sq. miles and Portion of Tooradin Riding, of area

= 91 sq. miles Total Area =123 sq. miles

(d) Cranboume (Lang Lang, Koo-Wee-Rup and Part Tooradin Ridings) Planning Scheme 1967

Total Area =135 sq. miles

It is noted in your Ministerial Statement on II New Town Planning Organization for Victoria" dated 21st February 1968, that the new legislation will provide for the formation of regional planning authorities. The statement refers to the Melbourne Metropolitan Area and the Mornington Peninsula and Westernport as two certain regional planning authorities.

It is 'important to have the views of the shire. The shire 'engineer further stated-

The fixing of the boundaries of any region is a matter requiring considerable investigation and it is considered that the following principles should be used as a guide :-

(1) A region should preferably be a physiographic unit.

(2) A region should be large enough for regional issues to outweigh parochial issues.

(3) A region should be capable of a unified pattern of development.

(4) A region should stimulate a community of interest, including a growth of regional consciousness and sentiment.

(5) A region should be capable of practical and efficient administration.

The letter also sta tes-By the application of the above principles,

it is suggested that the Peninsula-Westernport Region should include the whole of the shires of Flinders, Mornington, Hastings and Phillip Island, that portion of the Shire of Cranbourne south of Ballarto Road, comprising the Tooradin, Koo-Wee-Rup and Lang Lang Ridings, together with French Island, and portion of the Shire of Bass abutting Westernport Bay.

In effect, that would be all the land around the coastline of Westernport Bay, plus French Iisland 'and Phillip Island.

It is further submitted that the proposal in the current Bill to include in the Metropolitan Region, a large portion of the Shire of Cranbourne abutting the northern shore of Westernport Bay will not permit the proper co-ordination of the development of the port facilities. which have already commenced in close proximity to the southern boundary of the Shire of Cranbourne.

It is recommended that the portion of the Shire of Cranbourne to be included in the new Metropolitan Region should be amended by the excision of the area coloured yellow on the plan presented.

That area was indicated on a plan presented to the Minister to-day.

The southern boundary of the Metropolitan Region in the Shire of Cranbourne would then be the east-west Government Road known as Ballarto Road.

Mr. GINIFER.-Do you agree with the secretary of the Westernpqrt planning authority' who does not want the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works in the area?

Mr. DUNSTAN.-All municipalities on the Mornington Peninsula, with the possible exception of the City of Frankston, are totally opposed to the planning area of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works being extended to any of the shires I have mentioned, with the exception of that part of the Shire of Cranbourne encompassing the township.

Mr. STIRLING.-Do you oppose the Bill?

Mr. DUNSTAN.-I am opposed to the absence from this House of members of a supposedly responsible political party. Their absence indicates the irresponsibility of that party, and the two backstops the party has left in the Chamber should refrain from interjecting and so drawing further attention to the regrettable absence of the main body of the party.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-What is the name of that party?

Mr. DUNSTAN.-It is the socialist Country Party. Sub-clause (1) of clause 26 provides, inter alia-

For the Second Schedule to the Principal Act there shaH be substituted the following schedule:-

CC Second Schedule.

.... Town .l!:'Hl Co~ntry· ,'. [12, M~CH, 1~68.] Pla!.'ning (A1JlelJci.f!1enO Bill. 35~~

, The Metropolitan Area consists of the following areas:- '

(c) The following portions of the Shire of Cranbourne:-That portion west of the Toomuc Creek, Delamore Drain, and Moody's Inlet.

I should like the Government to consider omitting paragraph (c) of the Second Schedule with a view to inserting a new paragraph (c) as follows :-

(c) The following portion of the Shire of Cranbourne-That portion north of the Government Road (Ballarto Road) commencing at a point on the municipal boundary being the southwestern comer of Crown Allotment 54, Parish of Lyndhurst, County of Mornington, thence easterly by the southern boundaries of the Parishes of Lyndhurst and Cranbourne to a point on the municipal boundary being the south-eastern comer of the Parish of Cranbourne, County of Mornington.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-The honorable member for DrO'mana might consider this detail more suitable for discussion in the Com'mittee stage.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-I thank you for your guidance, Mr. Speaker. I wanted this clearly on the record sO' that the Government would be able to consider it.

Mr. SUTTON.-We are clear about why you are doing it.

Mr. DUNSTrAN.-I am glad that the honorable member for Albert Park is taking some interest in this very important matter and that I have been one member, if the only one, who has been able to make sO'mething clear to him. I was saying that I wanted these points on the record so that the Government could give close consideration to the amendment I suggest.

Mr. SUTTON (Albert Park).-I rise to a point of order, Mr. Speaker. This is a matter which should not be canvassed at this stage, as you, Sir, have truly said.

The SPEAKER.--1I cannot uphold the point of order.

Mr. SUTTON.---I thought you haq done so already, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER.-I think the honor~ able member' for Dromana should return to the general principles of the Bill. It has often been pointed out that it has become a custom in this place to speak, during the secondreading debate, in great detail on matters which are best dealt with in Committee. The matter is in the hands of honorable members. I suggest that the Committee stage of the Bill is a very important stage which is designed for discussion of detaH and that the second-reading debate should be on general principles.

Mr. DUNSTAN (Dromana).-I humbly and respectfully thank you for your guidance, Mr. Speaker. I admit that I overstepped the mark in taking my last point to a stage at which it would have been better dealt with in Com'm'ittee. I shall deal with the general principles of the Bin as they specifically affect what will be the most vital future development in Victoria, that of the Westernport area. As the Bill affe'cts planning and industrial development on the Westernport side of the Mornington Peninsula, so it will affect the development of the Peninsula as a whole. Without proper development, there could be chaos in that area. Because of this, legislation of this nature is doubly welcome, but it must be carefully considered and implemented.

The creation of regional planning authorities must also be carefully dealt with. In the area there has been unanimous opposition to the extension of the planning area of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works to any part of the land surrounding Westernport Bay or of the Momington Peninsula. Two proposals have been put forward by organizations in the area. One is supported by the Monlington Peninsula Muni~ cipalities Association and the other, which suggests a larger planning area, is put forward by the Westernport Development Committee. There has

3580 Town and Country [ASSEMBLY.] Planning' (Amendment) Bill.

been some 'slight disagreement about what should be the area of the planning region, but it could not be called a breach of unanimity.

Mr. WILKES.-There is also disagreement on principle.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-There is no disagreement on the principle that there should be a regional planning scheme to cover the Westernport areathat is, the whole of the land around Westernport Bay plus French Island and Phillip Island. The only divergences of opinion between the Westernport Development Committee and the Mornington Peninsula Municipalities Association relates to the area which should be included in the planning region.

Mr. WILKEs.-Neither wants the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works there?

Mr. DUNSTAN.-Neither wants the Board in what will become, as a result of this Bill, a vitally important planning region. I have given the official views of the Cranboume shire, and I wish to place on record the official views of the Shire of Hastings, which is closely associated with the Westernport Development Committee. Honorable members will realize that there is full agreement in principle between the shires. I quote from the submissions by the Shire of Hastings made to the Minister for Local Government by deputation on 12th March-

The suggestions put forward in the current legislation to amend the Town and Country Planni!1g Act are generally favoured by the CouncIl; however the provisions of the schedule for the extension of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works' area in the south and east, particularly in the Shire of Cranbourne, are opposed in the strongest terms. We feel that a grave error has been made in proposing the extension of the Board's area on to the shores of Westernport Bay.

Whilst we feel that the above proposals may conform slightly to the suggested fingers of development mentioned in the report of the Chairman of the Town and Country Planning Board, we cannot seriously believe that the Town and Country Planning Board, or its Chairman, would recommend an extension of the Board of Works' area which

will effectively cut in half the natural planningarea for Westernport. Surely the industrial undertakings under construction and planned, will eventually extend beyond the boundaries of the Shire of Hastings, and what area for such expansion could be more logical than the Shire of Cranbourne.

If the Bill before the House is approved in its present form, it will leave three of the four Peninsula Municipalities outside the Board of Works' area, a ridiculously small area for planning on a regional basis, and furthermore the need for such planning between these ShireS-Flinders, Hastings and Mornington-cannot be compared with that which will exist between Cranbourne, Hastings, Mornington, Frankston and Dandenong.

This legislation will undoubtedly lead eventually -to the three Shires being incorporated in the Board's area; in our opinion it will place the Mel.bourne and M~t!opolitan Board of Works In the strong posltIon of being able to force the whole of the Peninsula to come under its control.

The Council would not, under any circumstances favour the formation of a Regional Pianning Committee for Westernport without the inclusion of at least that portion of the Shire of Cranbourne that fronts on to Westernport Bay.

The amendment that I have suggested will result in a sensible regional planning area not being eroded by the extension of the planning area of the Board of Works. I shall make details available to the Minister, and I should like the Government to give them close consideration.

Various speakers have mentioned how regional planning authorities are to be financed. This question was covered in a constructive and informative fashion by the honorable member for Coburg. Undoubtedly, the creation of any regional scheme or any planning authority will require money. As the Minister of Water Supply is aware, the success of the Dandenong Valley Authority has not been achieved without providing the money necessary for it to carry out its tasks. I wish to bring to the Government's notice these draft proposals by the Momington Peninsul~ Municipalities Association, plus addItional shires, in effect covering the whole area.

In order to make the proposed authority operative, the Government should consider the following draft


proposals: First, a Government establishment grant should be sought in respect of initial expenses. Secondly, because of the region's role as a recreational and "breathing" area for the metropolis, a substantial grant should be sought from the Government to supplement funds provided locally. Thirdly, if the region had been incorporated into the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works planning area, residents would immediately have been called upon to pay the metropolitan improvement rate, which at present stands at 1.25 cents in the $1. It should be specifically provided that the local planning rate should at no stage be· in excess of the current metropolitan improvement rate. Because the developmental and acquisition activities of the regional planning authority will be far less extensive than those of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, it is envisaged that the local planning rate will in fact be considerably less than the metropolitan improvement rate.

The fourth proposal is that the regional planning authority should be empowered to fix a lower rate in respect of properties in rural zones. A large part of this area can be classified as rural. This point is partly covered in one of the amendments proposal in the Local Government (Amendment) Bill (No.2) which has been introduced in another place. In any planning scheme it is not right tha t properties in rural areas should be rated as highly as industrial or urban areas.

The fifth proposal will be of interest to th~ Minister of Water Supply, who was mstrumental in having a similar provision incorporated in the Dandenong Valley Authority Act. To avoid expensive costs of collection, the rate ultimately determined should be l~vie? .by the authority against muniCipalIties which would in turn collect it from ratepayers together with municipal rates. This is known as the " precept system ", and is adopted by the Dandenong Valley Authority. Finally, to meet capital expensesthat is, for acquisitions or works, as

distinct from administrative expenses -the authority would need some borrowing powers. The possibility of Government guarantees should be investigated. I have much more material on methods of ralsmg finance, but I have stated the method I most favour and which I recommend to the Government.

A great deal of work has gone into the preparation of this Bill. The municipalities in the area that I represent appreciate the postponement of the debate on the previous Bill, which was introduced in the last autumn sessional period. That Bill was not proceeded with because, as the Minister sta ted in his explana tory second-reading speech on this Bill, the Government felt that the various bodies-including municipal councils -interested in the Bill should have the opportunity of considering its contents. On behalf of municipalities in the electorate that I represent, I express their appreciation of the opportunity afforded them to consider the contents of the previous measure. The Bill now under discussion was introduced about three or four weeks ago, and I understand that it will not be passed through Parliament with any haste, and that suggestions from all sides will be given due consideration.

I have no doubt that all honorable members have received copies of a booklet entitled The Future Planning of Melbourne. It would not be untoward to commend the Myer Foundation for making a grant to produce this booklet. I thought it was an official Government document. I believe this is something that will go down in the State archives, and I consider it to be an invaluable booklet. It deals with the various conflicting aspects of planning and mentions the delays and frustrations which have been encountered since town planning was introduced for the first time about twenty years ago. The booklet gives the official views on the recommendations and observations of both the Town and Country Planning Board anci' ~h~ Melbourne

3582' ,Town and Country' [ASSEMBLY.]". Planniflg::(Arnendment} Bill.

and Metropolitan 'Board of Warks, 'and a summary of the reports they have presented to the Minister for Local Government. It also mentions the unofficial reports of the Town and Country Planning Association. The material is set out under various headings, such as finance, decentralization, population, redevelopment, ,administration and planning. When one reads this booklet one apprecIates the tremendous amount of work, thought, consideration and decision which was 'necessary by the Minister for Local Government and his colleagues to choose the, best of the recommendations and to implement ,them. I believe this is a vitally important Bill and, apart from one or two flaws that I have mentioned, it is one of the most constructive measures that have been introduced since I have been a member of this House.

Mr. BIRRELL (Geelong).-I have some experience of a former regional planning committee which was in ,existence in Geelong for some years and was a prototype of the regional planning authority which it is proposed to set up under this Bill. After several years the Geelong Town Planning Committee disbanded voluntarily. There were some seven or eight councils involved, and after a period of years certain shortcomings became evident. I foresee, as other members have said, that some revenue-producing means must be found to make this Bill effective.

The local planning authority to which I referred disbanded for two reasons. The first was that a sense of frustration arose because it did not have the ability to raise the necessary funds. The other reason why the committee went out of existence is covered in this Bill. The second reason was that many minor matters, which the councils considered barely worth sending to the regional planning committee, were held up for a considerable time being vetted, considered and decided by the committee. This difficulty will not arise under the Bill because various small matters will be decided by local councils.

One point that has bee'n brought out in this debate is that the sinews of war, so to speak, must be provided in order that the proposed legislation may work effectively. I believe there is a need to permit councils, or regional planning authorities, to levy some sort of betterment or improvement or town planning· rates. Without this ability to raise money, the effective working of the regional planning authorities will be severely limited. This aspect was pointed out recently in conference with the Gee:long City Council, and it has been mentioned by previous speakers, including the honorable member for Dromana who expressed the views of the Hastings Shire Council. When the administrative details are worked out, following the proclamation of this measure, some provision of the kind I mentioned will be necessary.

The general observations of the honorable member for Coburg were weak in this regard because he did not mention that within the metropolitan area services are provided which people from outside that area use. I point out that each part of the State is dependent on the other. People from outside the metropolitan area use services provided by the people inside the area, and vice versa. If this Bill is to work effectively, the system that is adopted in striking a rate in the Melbourne and metropolitan area, or some similar system, will have to be used.

Mr. WILKES.-It will not hit the deck. You could not tax highly enough to do that.

Mr. BIRRELL.-I do not know how it will work otherwise. The administrative functions of the committees in regional areas could perhaps be financed by some sort of contribution from councils; but acquisitions will have to be made and certain items will have to be purchased, and this can be undertaken only by the expenditure of substantial sums of money. I am not sure whether the problem that arose in respect of what has become known as the ring road acquisition preceded or

To~n and Country [12' MARCH, 1968.] P'la,:,ning (Amendment) Bill. 358l

followed the demise of the Geelong Town Planning Committee, but that was a case in which the physical impossibility of councils or groups acquiring land in the interests of town planning generally forced the cancellation of a ring road project. That was some years ago, and I foresee a similar situation arising following the passage of this Bill. I believe such a situation will probably require the enactment of further legislation to permit the regional planning authority, when it is established, to raise money in some way to finance its operations-although I believe that this will not be totally effective.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was read a second time,

and committed, pro forma.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor recommending that an appropriation be made from the Consolidated Revenue for the purposes of this Bill.

A resolution in accordance with the recommendation was passed in Committee and adopted by the House.

The House went into Committee for the consideration of this Bill.,

Clause 1 was agreed to. Clause 2 (Interpretations). Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public

Works) .~It is the usual practice for the, Minister in ,charge of, the Bill, when speaking to clause 2, to reply to proposals made by members· during the second-reading debate. I shall avail myself of that opportunity to refer briefly, to comments, that have been made, on this measure.

When I made the second-reading explanatory speech, on this Bill I said-and "this was mentioned by other honoraole members-that a similar measure was introduced ,in the autumn session' of last year and that it was debated in this House but not, proceeded with. ,'It' has be'en sugg,ested tha~, if was not. prpceeded

with because there was . insufficient time available to debate the Bill. However, that was not the reason for not proceeding with, the measure. The Government desired all interested parties to have an ample opportunity to study the proposals contained in the Bill, particularly as they affected municipal councils. The Government believes that the delay has been well worth while be ... cause in the intervening months innumerable suggestions have been made to rny colleague, the Minister for Local Government. He has acted upon some of these suggestions, and they have been included in the measure before the House, but he disagreed wi.th others and of course they are not contained in the Bill. If I were to discuss in detail the various suggestions that have been made, I would speak for much longer than I desire; therefore, I shall confine my remarks to two or three points raised by honorable members.

As I understand the situation, the honorable member for Dromana today made representations to the Minister for Local Government on behalf of local mtmicipal councils. The Government has, of course, not yet had an opportunity of' considering the proposals. I shall confer with the Minister for Local Government with a view to those representations being duly considered and dealt with between now and when the measure reaches another place.

Certain aspects mentioned by the ,honorable member for Coburg need to be clari.fied. The honorable member narrated the history of the town and country planning legislation and pointed out that, as far back as ,1949, the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works had been adopted as the town planning authority, for the metropolitan- area. How,ever, the honorable member then said that the proposed legislation ,had the effect of over-riding tpwn planning ,schemes of' municipalities. That is not correct. For a long time legislation has provided that when the

3584 Town and Country [ASSEMBLY.] Planning" (Amendment) Bill.

metropolitan planning scheme, as provided by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works as the planning authority for the metropolitan area, receives the approval of the Governor in Council it will supersede all metropolitan planning schemes by all councils. This has not been altered in any way.

My information is that the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works-quite properly, for it is a municipal body-has taken due cognizance of every approved scheme by metropolitan muncipalities. My experience as the Minister concerned for a period of six years has confirmed this.

I t has been suggested tha t, in future, municipalities will have no say in planning. The future position will be no different from that which exists at present. The Bill provides that municipalities may request a planning authority to produce amendments in so far as they affect their own muncipalities. If the planning authority refuses, the municipalities have direct access to the Minister, who can ask the authority to proceed. Therefore, it is not correct to say that municipalities are being deprived of their powers.

Mr. WILKES.-It is partly correct. Mr. PORTER.-To the extent that

the municipalities are no longer sole planning authorities' for their areas, but this has been the case since 1949. There has been some conflict, and this is not good for town planning. No one could suggest that it is. The position has been clarified in this Bill to get rid of this conflict.

I do not disagree with much of what was said by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, who handled this measure on behalf of the Opposition. The honorable member had clearly examined the Bill, and he made various requests and offered suggestions, all of which Will be examined by the Minister for Local Government.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked why the Local Government Department and the Social Welfare Branch were not represented on the State Planning Council. I point out that it is the Government's intention that the State Planning Council should be comprised of representatives of those Departments which are responsible for initiating developments throughout the State. The Social Welfare Branch has a vital interest in planning, because the result of other planning affects it, and it is in fact represented by its permanent head. The Social Welfare Branch is a division of the Chief Secretary's Department, and the Under S.ecretary is to be a member of the suggested Town Planning Council.

The first suggestion made by the honorable member 'for Northcote was that the Local Government Department ought to be represented because it is representative of local government as a whole. I do not disagree with that contention. The Department is responsible and it is in fact capable of giving the view of municipalities. However, the planning authority itself is representative of the municipalities and, therefore, the voice of municipalities is heard on the council. The honorable member also stated that the secretary of the Local Government Department, Mr. Mithen, had a magnificent knowledge of local government and town planning law and was probably an expert without peer in this State on these facets. I agree with that expression of opinion, as I had the pleasure of being associated with Mr. Mithen when the Local Government Department was established. However, although the Local Government Department does not initiate planning schemes or proposals, in the ultimate, all schemes produced by the State Planning Council, the Town and Country Planning Board, the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works as the metropolitan planning authority or a regional planning committee, must ultimately receive


the consent of the Minister, and it is to the secretary of the Local Government Department that the Minister must tum. The Minister would find it difficult to ask a permanent head of a Department for advice if that permanent head had taken some part in making the recommendation being considered. I believe it to be in the interests of the Minister for Local Government for the permanent head not to be included as a member of the proposed council. His advice is available and, from my experience, I am certain that it will be eagerly sought by the Minister for Local Government of the day.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-At the outset, I thank the Minister of Public Works for making available to members of the Opposition the services of officers of the Local Govern'ment Department. The M,inister, when he was Minister for Local Government, and the present holder of that portfoHo, have never failed to make these services available to enable Opposition members to exa'mine technical and complicated legislation. This assists Parlia'ment to debate measures of this type, because honorable members, whether in Opposition or in the Government, gain a knowledge of the prop'Osals contained therein, and the reasons for their inclusion. I do not always agree with the vie'ws expressed by the Minister of Transport on this subject, but they are his private views and he is entitled to them.

I also thank the Minister for his explanation why the departmental head Df the Local Govern·ment Department has nDt been included as a member of the State Planning Council. As the honorable gentleman pointed ou t, his services and his pertinent knDwledge of local govern'ment would be better employed in a capacity where he was nO't inhibited by any decision made by the council. When one examines this propositiDn, one can clearly agree with the Minister'S point of view.

In dealing with the suggestion that the Director-General of Social Welfare should be a member of the planning councH, the Minister made the pDint that the titular head of the Chief Secretary"s Department, the UnderSecretary, will in fact be a member of the council. It would be unkind to suggest that he was not familiar wHh the Social Welfare Branch of his Department.

Mr. PORTER.-It would not only be unkind, but it would also be untrue.

Mr. WILKES.-However, I think Mr. Dillon will freely admit that he is not as conversant with the wide ramifications. O'f social welfare as is the Director-General of Social Welfare, which is the point I made. The social consequences of various plans, the sociological trends, such as migration, population shifts and distribution, changes in employment and cultural patterns are sound reasons why the Director-General should be included on the council. However, if the Government decides that he should be represented by the departmental head, Mr. Dillon, for whom I have the highest regard, perhaps this win meet the situation.

In the second-reading debate, honorable· members heard a valuable contribution from one of the newer members, the honorable member for Scoresby, and the customary considered speeches Df the honorable member for Essendon and the honorable member for Geelong. However, they also heard a parochial point of view from the honorable member for Dromana, who criticized the Leader of the Opposition for not being in the Chamber. Surely, he shO'uld know that the Leader of the Opposition, like the Premier and senior Ministers of the Government, cannot sit in this Chamber frDm 4 p.m. until 11 p.m. because he has other duties to perform.

Mr. ROSSITER.-YOU should remember that at times.

3586 Town and, Country' [ASSEMBLY.] Planning (Amendment) Bill.

Mr. WILKES.-I· have never criticized Ministers for being absent, nor have I suggested that they should be in the Chamber at all times. I realize the situation, and the honorable member for Dromana should also realize it. The hono~able member has a right to place before the House the views of his constituents as to which body should control planning in the Westernport area, and whether the Board of Works planning area should be extended to cover parts of the shires of Cranbourne and Hastings, or whether the regional authority should provide the planning in those areas. This point has been clearly made in the report of the Town and Country Planning Board and in reports submitted to the Minister by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, but if the Government wishes to intervene in this controversy between shires on the Mornington Peninsula, it is a question for the 'Government to decide as a matter of policy.

The clause was agreed to, as were clauses 3 to 5.

Clause 6 (Additional powers 'Of Board) .

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Subclause (3) provides that the Town and Country Planning Board may-

(d) with the approval of the Minister enter into any contract or agreement with consultant or research organizations for making such reports surveys or investigations as the Board thinks necessary; or

(e) with the approval of the Minister establish committees consisting of suitable persons whether or not such persons are members of the Board, the State Planning Council or a responsible authority to advise the Board on such matters within the jurisdiction of the Board as the Board refers to such' committees. "

The proposals for entering into contracts for research and so on by outside organizations, and the setting up of com·mittees .composed of persons outside the ambit of the Board are probably fair enough, but I think some information should be given to the Minister ·'as to how· they vote, because although it may be .improbable, it is'

not impossible that these com'mittees could become the vehicles of vested interests, and sources of partial advice. This would depend on who were appointed as members. I can think of many people whom I would not want to be members, just as readily as I can think of many who would be desirable members. When the Bill reaches another place, some explanation should be given how far these committees will be expected to advise the Board.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The honorable me'mber for N orthcote is obviously concerned that the Minister may appoint a large number of persons from outside the Board who may give a weighted recom'mendation to the Board itself. I remind him that the recommendation does not have to be accepted by the Board, and that if it is accepted it has to receive the approval of the Minister. I suggest that the honorable member's fears are groundless because the Minister has a responsibility to Parliament and, if the honorable member finds that the Minister is weighting the committees against those in authority, he has every opportunity to express his views in Parliament. Furthermore, if the Minister adopts suggestions which the honorable member feels should not be adopted, the same opportunity e~ists.

The clause was agreed to.

Clause 7 (State,ments of planning policy) .

. Mr. WHEELER (Essendon).-From my experience, reservations by authorities for electricity,' roads and drainage have been confusing and a miserable failure. Road reserVations have been set out on . a planning scheme, and after a short time houses have been permitted to be erected on the reservation alignment; then the authority re·alizes that it wants to widen the reservation and streets of comparatively new homes -have to .be

.... 'Town and Country [12 MARCH, 1968.] Planning (Amendment) Bill. 3587

demolished because of earlier mistakes. This is a serious matter. Sub~ sections (1) and (2) of proposed new section 7 A provide-

" (1) The Board may prepare a statement of planning policy (including any necessary plans and maps) with respect to any portion of Victoria whether or not a planning scheme has been or is being prepared for that portion or any part thereof by any responsible authority.

(2) A statement of planning policy may make provision for any matters which may be the subject of planning schemes under this Act but shall be directed primarily towards broad general planning to facilitate the co-ordination of planning throughout the State by all responsible authorities.

Mr. GINIFER.-That would include the Country Roads Board?

Mr. WHEELER.-I assume it will include the Country Roads Board because that authority has been no exception to the problem. I do· not disagree with the principle of road reservations being set out, but I stress that the authorities should realize their requirements· before they make any public statement or before maps are prepared. Having once prepared the maps and set out the scheme, there should be no mistake so that people may know precisely their position. In my view, this would avoid confusion, frustration and unnecessary expense.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-The submission by the honorable member for Essendon poses the question of how far ahead the authorities should plan. The Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works and the Town and Country Planning Board have suggested between 15 and 40 years, which might be all right in respect of water conservation or power, but I doubt whether it is possible to plan that far ahead for road reservations, educational facilities and housing. The statutory bodies are repre~ented on the Board, and no doubt they will think big, which is one of the disadvantages, but it is probably outweighed by the advantages. They will probably ,ask for more land to be ·reserved than they need. It is necessary to guard against this practice, and I' agree ·with the contention

advanced by the honorable member for Essendon. There has been a recent example of the Melbourne Harbor Trust using· land which was reserved 100 years ago,. and this situation ought not to arise.

Once the plans of these authorities are accepted, they must be incorporated in the regional plan, and claims for payment for the land in question then follow. If the authorities are permitted to think big in respect of their requirements for the suggested period of between 15 and 40 years, enormous sums of money will be required for compensation. Action should be taken to guard ag.ainst this, and doubtles's the Minister of Public Works and the Government will be concerned about any propos.als for land reservations that are put forward by the representatives of these bodies, even if only because of the cost of such proposals. It should be borne in mind, and probably the Minister has given some consideration to it, that a rein should be placed on the planning of the statutory authorities at a particular time, first, because of the cost and, secondly, because of the inconvenience to people, as outlined by the honorable member for Essendon.

Mr. PORTER (M:inister of Public Works).-I thank the Deputy Leader of the Opposition for partly answering the question posed by the honorable member for Essendon. It is true that in the past planning authorities have failed to foresee what would be required in the future, and I do not think they can be blamed for that. The metropolitan planning scheme was produced in 1954, and at that time no planning authority could envisage the volume of traffic that would be using our roads to-day and the new roads that would be required. In its enthusi'asm, in 1954 the metropolitan planning authority made provision for certain roads without asking the Country Roads Board if .it would be building the roads, and this led· to some difficulties. ' Whenever the' Country


Roads Board has an idea that it might plan a deviation and sends a surveyor to look at the area, the local community is up in arms protesting against such a move. Then the Country Roads Board p,repares a few alternative schemes which it thinks might be workable and in the best interests of thecOommunity. These schemes 'are discussed with municipal councils, and this leads to a series Oof deputations to me as the Minister frOom the people who are concerned with the alternative schemes. All this happens long before there is ,any need for anyone to get concerned. This is purely ,a human element that all planners have to face.


Clause 8 (Po'wer to enter buildings, etc.).

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-This clause provides for consultation between the Board and the pl'anning council on statements of planning policy. These policies are then forwarded to the Minister, with or without the comment of the planning council. Then the Governor in Council or the Minister may approve of the policies with or without modifications. If the Minister approves, certain procedures concerning publkation ,are adopted, but this raises two points: What happens if the Minister disapproves of the policy or if the parts that he alters are disapproved of? Does anybody know about his action? For example, the Minister could radioally alter or disapprove a policy put forward by the Board or the ,council and nobody would knO'w about it. I am assuming that policy statements would be kept secret until the Minister approved of them, and that is fair enough, but the point I am making is important because of the profit motive involved. Sometimes it may be advis,able to make known' the details of what the Minister has accepted or rejected. I seek clarification on this point. The Minister may know more about the intention under this procedure than is outlined in the leg.islation.

. Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public .Works).-When I was speaking to clause 2, I omitted to refer to the rema'rks made by the honorable m,ember for NOl'1thcote Oon this subject. I have noted what he has said, but I cannot give him off-the-,cuff answers at present. I do not propose to say something that is half-baked, and therefore I shall bring his remarks to the notice of the Minister for Local GOovernment and leave it to him to explain the position in another place.

Sir JOHN BLOOMFIELD (Malvern).-I do not know that I am in order in referring to' this small matter, but I noti,ce that at line 31 of page 9 of the Bill it is propOosed that, to follow section 49 of the principal Act a new section 49A shall be inserted. However, the sidenote, which does not form part of the legislation, refers to a new section 35A. The Minister might have referred to this m·atter earlier, but it appears to me to be a misprint.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN (Mr. Wiltshire).-This matter will be drawn to the aUention of the Parliamentary Draftsman, and if necessary it can be corrected in the House.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I assume the new section 49A will follOow section 49. Sub-section (1) of proposed new section 49A pr'ovides-

For the purpose of carrying this Act into execution or of enforcing or carrying out any interim development order or planning scheme or of ascertaining whether any provision of this Act or of any interim development order or planning scheme is being contravened any authorized officer of the 'responsible authority may with the consent of the occupier or, in the absence of any such consent, after giving two clear days' notice to the occupier (if any) enter upon any building or land at any reasonable time and neither the responsible authority nor its authorized officer shall be liable to any legal proceedings on account of any such entry.

In my opinion, two clear days' notice is not sufficient in some cases. This has been borne out by Government policy in other legislation. For example, under the Country Roads Board Act if a r,esponsible officer of


the Board intends to enter a property for the purpose of extracting overburden or soil to be used to repair roads in the area, the Board is compelled to g.ive the owner of the property at least seven days' n'Otice of its intention.

When this matt<er was discussed in Parliament, it was stated that the giving of seven days' notice would enable the owner to take the necessary steps to make provision for the entry of that authorized person and that, if the owner was not in residence at the time, he would have seven days in which to receive the notice. In this case it is proposed to give only two days' notice, and I suggest that seven days' notice would also be reasonable in this case.

Perhaps the authorized officer will want to ent,er a property to determ.ine whether or not there has been a violation of a planning ordinance in respect of land usage. I do not think the granting of seven days' notice would make ,a great deal of difference to the legislation. Certainly, two days' notice will create a great deal of difficulty and in my opinion it is not sufficient.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works).-I understand the point raised by the honorable member, but point out that the purpose of this provision is to enable the planning authority to ensure that the provisions m'ade under a planning permit, which are designed t'O prevent a community wrong, are not contravened. What I have in mind could happen in any district, and from my experience as the Minister in charge of this legislation some years ag'O, this is not an uncommon procedure. A person who owns a block of land in an area zoned as residential is given permission to construct certain buildings subject to certain provis'ions which are designed to ensure that the residential characteristics of the district are not contravened. It would be ridiculous if the planning authority could not check on these conditions. Therefore, it is in the

interests of the community that this clause should be included in the legislation. However, I shall direct the attention of my c'Olleague in another place to the fears and worries of the honorabl,e member for N orthcote in th'is regard, but I can assure him that the provision has been included for the reason I have just stated.

The clause was agreed to, as was clause 9.

Clause 10 (Pow,er to establish regi'Onal planning authorities).

Mr. WILKES (NorthcO'te).-The previous Bill on this subject provided that a regional authority would be set up after c'Onsult'ation with the councils concerned and after the Minister had given approval. This left the councils with residual by-law powers, which were considered by the honorable member for Essendon at that time to be a brake on any possible intrusion into or erosion of the councils' rights. The authority was to include representatives of public utilities, but that has been changed in the Bill. There is no provision for consultant or bylaw-making powers, and the regional planning authorities will include representatives of the municipalities concerned, in proportions that have not yet been decided by the Government. I discussed this aspect in some detail during the second-reading debate. Suffice it to say now that it might be practicable from the point of view of the municipalities if the direct representation of councils was to be defined. The unstated number of other person's to be decided by the Government could form a majority, and they eould represent public utilities in the area.

In the Opposition's view, only representat'ives of the councHs concerned should be represented on the regional planning authority. This is in line with the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works; on which there are representatives only of the

'3590 Town and' Country [ASSEMBLY.] Planning (Amendmen"t) Bill.

municipalities. The Board itself will become a regional planning authority. As the honorable member for Coburg pointed out, a representative of the Shire of Frankston was included on the Board of Works only in connexion with its. planning function. Under this measure, the Government will have to' consider any request by the Board for increased representation from all the municipalities concerned because they are involved in planning in their particular areas. Thus the proportions of representation on regional planning authorities should be spelt out, and the Government should state whether, with the extension of the Board's regional planning area, the additional municipalities will be granted representation on the Board on the same basis as other municipalities are at present.

The other point I wish to raise concerns costs associated with the regional planning authority, which are to be borne wholly by the councils concerned. I suggest that the method proposed by the Bill is undemocratic, unless it is provided that the councils will be given the predominant proportion of representation on these bodies. I know that the Minister is concerned about local government. When speaking on clause 2, the honorable gentleman pointed out that the influence of local government on planning would not diminish because of the Bill. Certainly it will not decrease because of the burden of costs that will be imposed on local government. Therefore, it is necessary to state what the municipal representation will be, and what effect this will have on the ultimate representation on the Board of Works. Will the number of members of the Board be increased from 52 to 62 or 102? Perhaps before the Bill reaches another place, the Minister could inform the Opposition what the Minister for Local Government or the Government has in mind concerning representation on regional planning authorities.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public 'Works) .-The question of represent~tion of municipalities on the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works will be dealt with on the next occasion that a Bill to reconstitute the Board comes before the House. The Deputy Leader of. the Opposition also asked what is envisaged concerning the constitution of regional planning authorities, and whether the Government would state the exact representation to be provided on these bodies. This will depend to a large extent on the area concerned and the number of municipalities in it. For example, if the Government stated tha t there were to be three representatives of each municipality and an area included ten municipalities, there would overnight be another Board of Works. On the other hand, if there were only three municipalities in the area, it would be reason,able for each of them to have three representatives on the regional planning authority. The matter has been left open, so that the Minister may have regard to the peculiarities and circumstances of each region before he decides on the representation.

The clause was agreed to, as were clauses II to '13.

Clause 14 (Constitution of Town Planning Appeals Tribunal).

Mr. WHEELER (Essendon).-Proposed new section 19A of the principal Act provides, inter alia-

(2) The Appeals Tribunal shall consist of three members appointed by the Governor in Council of whom-

(a) one who shall be the chairman shall be a barrister and solicitor of the Supreme Court of Victoria;

(b) one shall be a person having exp~rience in town and country plannmg; and

(c) one shall be a person having knowledge of and experience in public administration commerce or industry.

(3) Each member of the Tribunal shall be appointed for a period of not more than three years but shall be eligible for re-appointment.

.4djourn'!Jent. [13 MARCH, 19,68.] Educaticln" Department. 3591.

1 ask the Minister to consider amending those provisions with the object of providing some continuity of experience in the event of certain members of the Town Planning Appeals Tribunal not seeking re-appointment to that body. For example, in the first instance, the chairman could be ap~ pointed for three years, the next member for two years, and the next for one year, in that sequence. Sub-, sequent appointments could be made in each case for a period of three years.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Proposed new section 22B of the principal Act relates to appeals to the Supreme Court. Under the old provisions, the question of costs of appeals to the Supreme Court was at the discretion of the Appeals Tribunal, but these provisions have been omitted from the Bill. This could mean difficulty for an appellant who was not sure how the costs would be apportioned or who would be responsible for them. 1 should appreciate an explanation of how this provision was omitted from the Bill.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The points raised by the honorable member for Essendon and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition will be brought to the attention of my colleague, whom 1 shall ask to provide replies.

The clause was agreed to, as were the remaining clauses.

The Bill was reported to the House without amendment, and passed through its remaining; stages.

ADJOURNMENT. Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public

Works) .-1 move-That the House, at its rising, adjourn

until to-morrow, at half-past Three o'clock.

The motion was agreed 'to.

The House adjourned at 10.12 p.m.'

ijtgi.alutittt Cttnunril. Wednesday, March 13, 1968.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. W. R. Garrett) took the . chair at 4.23 p.m., and read the prayer.

TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING (AMENDMENT) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Hon. R.. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government), was read a first time.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.'

PORTABLE CLASS-ROOMS: ALTERNATIVE ACCOMMODATION.

The Hon. I. R. CATHIE (SouthEastern Province) asked the Minister of Educa tion-

In respect of schools requesting portable class-rooms for 1968, in each case, what school was involved" how many temporary class-rooms were requested, and what alternative accommodation is being used?

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education).-The answer comprises five foolscap pages, and 1 seek .leave of the House to have it incorporated in Hansard without my reading it. ,


Requests from schools for portable classrooms are only one' of the many factors dete$ining allocatiofls and in some cases allocations were made which exceeded the number requested.

Some requests were modified by district inspectors and Assistant Directors of Education in the light of infotmation known to them' and some requests were modified because actual February enrolments ,feU short of earlier estimates.

3592 Education [COUNCll...] Department.

The following table shows details of portable class-room allocation:-

(1).

School.

1213 Brunswick . . . . 3941 Coburg West . . . . 2837 Moreland . . . . 3889 Thornbury . . . . 3585 North Brunswick. . . . 3820 Caulfield North .. . . 3806 Penders Grove . . . . 1098 Hastings . . . . . . 4780 Overport . . .. 3531 Langwarrin .. . . 2627 Rosebud . . . . 1090 Sorrento . . . . 1368 Mount Eliza . . . . 4800 Blackburn East . . . . 454 Burwood East . . . .

4932 Burwood Heights .. 4904 Heatherdale . . . . 4819 Heathmont East .. . . 4886 Mullum .. . . . . 4808 Nunawading South .. 4881 Parkmore . . .. 4807 Yarraman Park .. .. 4965 Armata . . . . 4939 Monterey . . . . 4730 Harrisfield . . . . 4921 Doveton North . . . . 4891 Greenslopes . . . . 4856 Oakwood Park . . . . 1432 Mooroopna .. .. 4401 Katandra West .. .. 1366 Kialla . . . . . . 3067 Tallygaroopna . . . . 1814 Lancaster . . . . 4666 Shepparton . . . . 4943 Shepparton (Wilmot-road) .. 3641 Youanmite . . . . 2466 Cosgrove . . . . 4804 Bell Post Hill . . . .

124 Corio .. .. .. 283 Grovedale . . . .

4332 Anglesea . . . . 1961 Little River . . . . 4936 Ballarat .. . . . . 1256 Ballarat Orphanage .. 4701 Wendouree West ., .. 1091 Alfredton . . . . 427 Mount Clear . . . .

1071 Ballarat .. . . . . 4690 Ballarat North . . . . 4746 Banyule .. . . . . 4341 Briar Hill . . . . 4838 Watsonia . . . . 4935 Watsonia Heights .. 4694 Greythorn . . . . 4727 Koonung Heights .. 4724 Boroondara . . . . 4816 Kerrimuir . . . . 4912 Springview . . .. 4869 Bulleen . . .. 4879 Croydon West .. ..

197 Doncaster . . . . 4861 Doncaster Park .. . . 4940 Manningham . . . . 2904 Mitcham . . . . 4854 Park Orchards . . . . 4916 Ruskin Park . . . . 1395 Templestowe . . . .

(2).

Requested.

2 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 1 1 1 2 2 3 2 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 4 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 3 3 3 1 4 1 1 2 3 1 1 1 1

(3).

Allocated.

Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil

1 Nil Nil Nil

1 1 1

Nil 1 2

Nil 1 1 2

Nil Nil

4 2

Nil 1 1

Nil Nil Nil Nil

1 Nil

1 Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil

2 2

Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil

1 2 1

Nil Nil Nil Nil

1 3 1 1 1 4 1 1 1

Nil

Hall Hall

HaJ)

(4).

Comment.

Education [13 MARCH, 1968.] Department. 3593

(1). (2). (3). (4).

School. Requested. Allocated. Comment.

4761 Yarrunga 2 Nil Hall 4937 Pembroke 2 2 4750 Portland South 1 1 4847 Hamilton 1 1 Consolidated, Timboon .. 8 Nil 4215 Merrivale 1 Nil

143 Campbellfield 1 1 4900 Dallas 1 1 4933 Dallas North 2 Nil 4806 Gowrie Park 2 1 4787 North Park 2 Nil 1252 Carlton .. 2 3 4700 Traralgon 1 1 2048 Brighton Beach 2 1 2460 St. Kilda Park 1 1 2932 Port Melbourne 1 1 4952 Coolaroo South 2 1 4929 Comet Hill 2 1 2915 Mildura .. 4 4 4814 Wodonga West 2 Nil Consolidated, Balmoral .. 2 Nil Consolidated, Edenhope 1 Nil 298 Horsham 2 Nil

4903 Essex Heights 2 1 2219 Glen Waverley 4 2 4836 Glen Waverley Heights 2 2 3432 Mount Waverley .. 2 1 1601 Oakleigh 1 1 4874 Pinewood 2 1 4924 Syndal South 1 1 4907 Mirrabooka 2 3 4809 Glenroy West 1 Nil 4733 Bell Vue 1 1 4801 Amstel .. 1 1 4851 Westall 1 1 4802 Heatherhill 2 1 Hall 4859 Southvale 2 1 4341 Chelsea Heights 1 Nil 1658 Springvale North .. 1 1 734 Clayton North 1 Nil

4743 Swan Hill North 1 Nil 4788 Wembley 1 Nil 4910 Southmoor 2 1 4803 Beaumaris North .. 1 Nil

938 Heatherton 1 Nil 1401 Northcote 1 Nil Hall 1490 Fitzroy North 2 2 450 Fitzroy .. 1 1

4877 Keilor Heights 3 2 4744 Sunshine Heights .. 2 1 4811 St. Albans North 1 1 4741 St. Albans East 4 3 2969 St. Albans 1 1 4855 Albion North 1 1 4812 Avondale 4 Nil 1434 Deer Park 1 1 4908 Boronia West 2 3 4789 Eastmont 2 2 4905 Mountain Gate 2 2 4920 Studfield 2 Nil 4805 Altona East 2 Nil 4831 Altona North 2 3 4862 Altona West 2 1 4825 Brooklyn West 2 3 2857 Laverton 2 Nil

113 Newport 7 Nil Free transport provided to neighbouring schools

3594 .. Edu.cation. [COUNCIL.] Dep(lr(ment.·

(1). (2). (3). (4).


4440 Seaholme 1 Nil 4964 Laverton North 3 4. 649 Werribee 1 1

1409 Williamstown North 2 1 4843 Parktone 1 1 3385 Carrum .. 1 1 3729 Chelsea .. 1 Nil 3835 Seaford 1 1 Consolidated, Pakenham 3 1

631 Thomastown 1 1 4762 Ballarat Special 1 1 4713 Olympic Village 1 1 4776 Newcomb 4 4 4873 Bellaire 3 2 4850 Benalla West 1 1 4692 Morwell .. 1 1.

Technical Schools.

Bell Park North 4 5 Brighton 2 1 Broadmeadows West 4 5 Clayton 4 1 Dandenong 1 Nil Daylesford 1 Nil Doveton 5 4 Dromana 3 3 Echuca 1 Nil Fawkner 3 3' Footscray 1 Nil Glenroy 5 3 Horsham 1 Nil Keon Park 3 2 Kingsbury 4 3 Knox (Boys) 3 3 Knox (Girls) 3 3 Leongatha 5 4. Mitcham 5 5 Monterey 13 13 Mooroolbark 1 Nil Morwell 3 2 Oakleigh 1 1 Preston Girls 1 1 Sale 1 1 Sebastopol 1 1 Shepparton South 4 Nil Swinburne 2 2 Syndal 1 Nil Warragul 3 1 Warrnambool North 2 2 White Hills 3 2

High Schools.

Alexandra 2 Nil Ballarat 2 1 Broadmeadows 4 1 Buckley Park 3 2 Cobram 2 Nil Cohuna 2 Nii Drouin 2 Nil Fawkner 4 Nii Geelong 4 Nii GJenroy 2 Nil Karingal 3 1 Ketang- 1 Nil Maribyrnong 2 Nil

, 'Education . [13. MARCH, 1968.] . ", 'Department. -3'593

(1). (2). (3). (4).


Merbein .. .. .. .. 2 Nil Mitcham .. .. .. .. 2 1 Myrtleford .. .. .. .. 2 Nil Newlands .. .. . . .. 4 Nil Rosebud .. .. .. . . 2 Nil St. Albans .. .. .. .. 2 Nil Sea Lake .. .. . . .. 2 Nil Strathmore .. .. .. .. 2 1 Sunbury .. .. . . .. 1 Nil Tallangatta .. .. . . .. 2 Nil Warrnambool .. .. .. 3 Nil Williamstown Girls .. .. .. 2 Nil Yarram .. .. . . .. 2 Nil Ararat .. .. . . .. 1 1 Blackburn .. .. .. .. 3 2 Chadstone .. .. .. .. 2 1 Eltham .. .. .. . . 2 2 Frankston .. .. . . " 1 1 Hadfield .. .. .. .. 2 1 Heatherhill .. .. . . .. 3 Nil Kyabram ., .. .. .. 1 1 Laverton .. .. .. .. 4 3 Mount Beauty .. .. .. 1 1 Nunawading .. .. .. . . 1 Nil Oak Park .. .. .. . . 1 1 Pakenham .. ., .. .. 4 2 Portland .. .. .. . . 1 Nil Richmond .. .. . . .. 5 4 Seaford ., .. .. " 2 2 Shepparton ., .. .. . . 1 1 Werribee .. .. . . .. 1 1 Wodonga .. .. .. . . 1 1 Syndal .. .. . . .. 2 2 Wangaratta .. .. .. .. 2 2 Warracknabeal .. .. " 1 1 Altona North .. .. .. 1 1 Bacchus Marsh .. .. .. 1 Nil Broadford .. .. .. . . 1 Nil Cheltenham .. .. .. . . 2 2 Doveton .. .. .. . . 2 2 Fitzroy (Girls) .. .. . . 1 1 Hopetoun .. .. .. .. 1 1 Kew .. .. .. . . 2 1 Lake Bolac .. .. .. .. 1 1 Melbourne .. .. .. . . 1 1 Monbulk .. .. . . .. 1 1 Mortlake .. .. .. .. 1 1 Noble Park .. .. .. . . 1 1 Pembroke .. .. .. .. 2 2 Preston East .. .. .. . . 3 . Nil Ringwood .. .. .. . . 1 1 Templestowe .. .. .. . . 2 1 Timboon .. .. .. . . 2 2 Watsonia .. .. .. . . 2 2 Wycheproof .. .. .. . . 1 1 Yarrawonga .. .. .. .. 1 1 Terang .. .. .. . . 1 1 Keilor Heights .. .. . . 5 4 Maryvale .. .. .. .. 1 1

Teachers' Colleges.

Monash .. .. .. .. 3 3 Ballarat .. .. .. . . 1 1 Frankston .. .. . . 2 2 Geelong .. .. .. .. 1 1 Coburg .. .. .. . . 1 1 -----.

3596 , Decentralization [COUNCIL.] Advisory, Committee.

In those cases where there is no entry in column 4, and the number in column 3 is less than that in column 2 the position was met by one or more of the following:-

1. More effective use of existing accommodation.

2. The completion of permanent classrooms.

3. The completion of a new school nearby.

I am currently inquiring into the accommodation position at Timboon Consolidated School.

DECENTRALIZATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

IMPLEMENTATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS.

For the Hon. A. K. BRADBURY (North-Eastern Province), the Hon. A. R. Mansell asked the Minister of Agriculture-

In respect of the committees set up as a result of the Decentralization Advisory Committee's report-(i) did the Minister of State Development consult with the local members of Parliament for the particular areas as to the nature of representation on such committees; if not, why; (ii) have the Minister and the Division of State Development had any conferences or discussions with the members of Parliament representing the five selected areas of the State as to any local problems associated with the implementation of the recommendations of the committee's report; (iii) what factors were taken into consideration by the Minister or the Division in determining the type and nature of representation recently set up by the Minister and his Division in the five selected areas; and (iv) were the local members invited by the Minister to be present at the meetings held in five centres; if not, why?

The Hon. (Minister of answer is-

(i) (a) No.

G. L. CHANDLER Agriculture) .-The

(b) The nature of the representation on the various committees was determined as a result of long experience with committees of this nature.

(ii) (a) No.

(b) The Minister and the Division of St.ate Development and the municipalities concerned could see no problems associated with the setting up of th,e committees. The

implementation of other recommendations affecting local areas is intended to form the basis of the committees' considerations after their formation. '

Committees will be free to consult with localmember~ of Parliament if they wish.

(iii) (a) The area'likely to be involved in development' in the' forseeable future and the local councils concerned.

(b) The need for the inclusion in these committees ,of org~J?izations vitally concern~d with the development, of the areas, e.g." local chambers of manufactures, commerce, &c.

(c) Particularly where the'local organizations as above do not exist, it was considered necessary that provision be made for qualified individuals to, represent the community interests.'

(d) Departmental representatives were not included, because of their ready availability for consultation.

(iv) (a) No.

(b) These were preliminary meetings to agree to the constitution of the committees and the mechanics of their future operations.

STATE ,RIVERS AND WATER SUPPLY COMMISSION.

GOULBURN-:-MuRRAY IRRIGATION DIS

TRICT: LAND AREA: WATER RIGHTS:

EXPENDITURE.

The Hon. S.:' R. McDONALD (N orthern Province) asked the Minister of Agricu1ture~

(a) What is the area of land suitable for irrigation in' each of the irrigation areas within the: Goulbt;tin-Murray . Irrigation District?

(b) What 'were the total water rights in each of thes~ 'areas in: 1950 ~d 1967?

( c) How much has been' expended in each Of these 'areas in the period from 1950 to 1967 on"":""'(i) irrigation' extension and maintenance;, ,and Oi) drainage extension and maintenance?

The Hon. G~ L. 'CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The answ.ers cQmprise, ,a tabulation, and I seek, leave of the House for its incorporation in Hansard without my reading it. : ' , , , ,

Railway Department. [13 MARCH, 1968.J Ministerial Statement. 3597

Leave was granted, and answers were as follows:-

the (b) What were the respective tonnages in and out of this station in the last year?

Area of Total Total Water Water - Suitable Rights Rights in Land in 1950 1967

(acres). • (acre-feet)t (acre-feet). •

Murray Valley .. 257,877 67,208 190,938

Shepparton .. 208,565 46,190 147,172

Rodney .. 250,862 60,922 197,989

Tongala-Stanhope 70,217 48,048 82,757

Deakin .. 112,461 5,698 27,128

Rochester .. 167,477 57,466 115,598

Campaspe .. 17,545 .. 8,845

Dingee .. 7,572 4,447 7,628

Calivil .. 56,964 6,505 29,600

Tragowel Plains 187,392 31,192 94,039

Boort .. 83,917 11,339 36,746

Cohuna .. 96,275 49,302 86,640

Kerang .. 78,381 21,407 52,345

Koondrook .. 75,850 24,622 52,870

Third Lake .. 13,976 2,513 7,745

Mystic Park .. 18,115 2,677 9,215

Swan Hill .. 35,677 25,875 41,392

Fish Point .. 9,749 1,845 3,405

Totals .. 2,026,957 467,256 1,192,052

·NOTE: These figures are those shown in the Register of Lands for the current 1967-68 irrigation season.

tNOTE: These figures are taken from the 1950-51 Annual Report of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission. The information required in the answer to question (c) will take some time to prepare, and I shall arrange for it to be supplied direct to the honorable member.

RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. MARNOO SERVICE: FREIGHTS.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD (Northern Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) What is the present rail service to Marnoo railway station?

(c) Is any change proposed in this service?


(a) One train each fortnight with a road service for perishables, &c., on one day during the week the train does not run.

(b) In 1966-67, 2,056 tons inward and 11,658 tons outward .

(c) No.

COMIPANIES ACT. SAVOY CORPORATION LIMITED AND

OTHER COMPANIES: REPORT OF INSPE.CTOR.

The Order of the Day for the consideration of a report of an investigation of the affairs of Savoy Corporation Limited and other companies was read and, on the motion of the Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbourne North Province), was discharged.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-By leave, I desire to make a statement to the House about the water supply for metropolitan Melbourne, and to inform it both of the action taken to meet the emergency created by the most severe drought in our history, and also of the action taken and planned to assure Melbourne's water supply for the future.

It is natural that we should all be deeply concerned about the present position, and about future prospects. But there has also been much misunderstanding, and some quite baseless statements have been made, largely from hindsight, which have rnade the situation unnecessarily confused. I hope that what I have to say may help to clarify the real situation.

The fundamental fact is that the cause of the present water shortages, both in Melbourne and throughout the rest of the State, is the droughtthe worst in our recorded history.

3596 "" Ministe;;ai [COUNCIL.]

This drought is not merely worse than any we have ever had, but it is very much worse, and no community in the State is able to escape its effects. In very many places those effects are far more severe than in Melbourne.

There are streams in this State, now dry, which have never failed before. The mighty Murray is flowing at less than one half its rate in the previous worst drought in 1914. Lake Hume is virtually empty, and so are the Grampians and Wimmera storages. There are water restrictions in Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo and the Mornington Peninsula, throughout the Western District, Wimmera and Mallee, and even in Gippsland. In Tasmania the shortage of water has caused a 20 per cent. cut in electric power.

Here in Melbourne the rainfall in 1967 was only 13 inches compared with the annual average of 26 inches. This is the lowest ever recorded, well below the previous worst in 1914. Indeed, it is little above a desert rainfall, usually reckoned at about 10 inches. The effect on stream flows into the water storages was disastrous. The streams fell to barely one-third normal, and the water supply dams contained only 37,000 million gallons, which is a little above half capacity.

The Board of Works, as the metropolitan water supply authority, had no option but to impose water restrictions early in the spring of 1967, not so much to eke out what it had " in the bank "-that is, in storagesbut to guard against the possibility of a second record drought in 1968. To put it another way, if we could have been confident that in 1968 the rainfall would return to normal, the water harvest of 1967, small as it was, would have been enough to meet all needs. But the amount left "in the bank" would by now have been small and the Board could not, of course, possibly take such a risk. Water, therefore, is being conserved against the possibility of another drought in 1968, and I shall deal with that possibility later.


I have said that, the present drought is the cause-the sole cause -of our current water- shortage, and I remind the House that 1966 was a year of below average rainfall, yet at the beginning of that summer Melbourne's water storages "were full and overflowing and no restrictions were required. It is beyond question that had rainfall been normal; or even well below average, in 1967, no water shortage at all" would have occurred. "It is not the water planners who

have let Melbourne-and the rest of Victoria-down, but Mother Nature. In the opinion of. those who ought to know, the Melbourne water supply system is fully adequate for all its needs, even in a dry year. I shall demonstrate that later, but first I want to inform the House of the vigorous and comprehensive action taken by the Board of Works, with the full support of the Government, to meet the emergency drought situation.

The first aim was to augment by every possible means the sources of water available to the metropolitan system. These are the measures taken-

1. Diversion of East Cement creek into O'Shannassy aqueduct.

2. Diversion of Dee" river into O'Shannassy aqueduct.

3. Diversion of Walker'S creek into O'Shannassy aqueduct.

4. Diversion of Upper Thomson river by a saddle through the watershed into the Upper Yarra.

5. Pumping of Yarra water at Yering Gorge into Maroondah aqueduct.

6. Diversion of McMahon's creek into Upper Yarra aqueduct.

7. Diversion of Starvation creek into Upper Yarra aqueduct.

8. Diversion of Armstrong's creek into Upper Yarra aqueduct.

In addition, an investigation is being made into the possibility of diverting the Upper West Tanjil

M inisteria/', [13 MARCH, 1968.] Statement. 3599

river across the mountains by a pipeline into the Upper Thomson, whence the flow would be picked up by the completed channel which I have mentioned, and carried across the saddle into the Upper Yarra. If this water can be spared from the Latrobe river, perhaps in the winter and spring, this work will be done. These are not small or ineffective measures. On the contrary, they represent massive action to harvest every remaining water resource in the Yarra valley, plus whatever is feasible from across the mountains. They increase the total catchments available to the Board of Works by 76 square miles, that is, by no less than 25 per cent.

The contribution of these streams to the water supply is not great at present because the flows are so low, but even in another drought year they would represent an increase of about 30 per cent. These emergency works have been carried out by the Board with speed and imagination, and the Government has approved the works and helped the Board at every point. It has allocated large additional funds to the Board to enable the work to be carried through.

In tapping these additional supplies, the Board has, of course, had to abandon cc for the duration" its traditional policy of taking water only from cc closed" catchments, and has had to treat the water as a health safeguard. The drought emergency made this unavoidable.

The second object, of course, was to reduce consumption. This was the reason for the water restrictions and with the magnificent co-operati~n of the people of Melbourne there has been a saving of water since last September estimated at 20,000 million gallons. In order that full employment may be maintained, industry has not yet been restricted, but with willing and effective co-operation from all sides, the Board has been able to reduce industrial water consumption voluntarily by' 29 per cent.

Without all these active emergency measures, Melbourne would probably have in its storages about 16,000 million gallons less than it has now. The Board has in its water cc bank" in the dams at present 22,000 million gallons. What will be the position if 1968 proves to be another record drought year, as bad as 1967? On all figures and precedents, it would seem almost inconceivable,. but, of course, it is the very eventuality which the Board has had to keep in mind in its efforts to safeguard the water supply. The Board now estimates that with the augmentation and the current restrictions, it could maintain the supply at about the present scale, even through a second consecutive record drought, though the reserves would, of course, be still further reduced a year from now, probably to about 15,000 million gallons.

To sum up, a great battIe has been fought, and so far substantially won -a battle to augment supplies and reduce consumption. It has been a battle far more intense than most people realize, and I give full credit to the Board and its officers for their devotion and initiative, and to the people of Melbourne for their cooperation in the most serious water scarcity ever in this State.

I now turn to the longer-range picture. I made a statement to the House last October about the future water supply for Melbourne, and, therefore, I shall merely bring that statement up to date. I said then that the Government had approved in principle the whole programme recommended by the Public Works Committee for metropolitan water supply up to 1989. That programme was-

1. Diversion of certain creeks in the Yarra valley above Warburton, recommended for 1970 and subsequent years. Some diversions have already taken place, and the remainder, as I have indicated, will be brought in this year, well ahead of the original date. This increase, according to

3600 Ministerial [COUNCIL.] Statement.

the Board and the Public Works Committee, will meet

/ the requirements, even under dry seasonal conditions, of a population of 2,700,000, expected about 1974. Long before that time is reached, additional supplies will be coming into the system under subsequent stages of the scheme.

2. Diversion of the Thomson and Aberfeldy rivers by tunnels through the mountains into the Yarra valley. Drilling has already been carried out along the line of the proposed tunnel for stage I. and planning is well advanced to bring the water through by 1972. The Board expects to let the tunnelling contract about June. Stage II. will follow later.

3. Construction of a new storage on Cardinia creek, near Emerald, to hold 60,000 million gallons, that is nearly 40 per cent. more than the big Upper Yarra dam. Both the Board of Works and the Public Works Committee originally envisaged completion of this dam by 1977, but last October the Government approved a plan to start storing water there in 1972, some five years earlier.

I am glad to tell the House that it is proposed to enlist the skill and experience of the Snowy Mountains Authority in the investigation and design of this dam. Some of its engineers have already surveyed the site, and arrangements are almost complete for the Snowy Mountains Authority team to begin work.

This is the forward planning to assure Melbourne's water supplies well into the 1980's. It is the scheme recommended by the Public Works Committee, after years of research, and it has been approved by the Government and accepted unanimously


by the Board of Works, and by all those who ought to know, as entirely adequate for that purpose.

Finally, I would like to deal with the most controversial aspect of the whole water situation-the Big river. This river flows northward from the Divide into Lake Eildon, and there have been proposals that it should be diverted through the Divide into the Yarra Valley to augment Melbourne's supply. Let me make one t~ing cle~r first. Irrespective of the merIts of thIS proposal, it has nothing whatever to do with the present drought emergency. The plan to use this water never contemplated that it would be available before 1969, at the earliest. The tunnelling alone would involve years of arduous work.

The proposal was in fact rejected in 1964, and I propose to review briefly the circumstances. In July 1962, the Board of Works adopted and forwarded to the Government a Report on the Future Water Supply of the Melbourne Metropolitan Area. The Board knew, as everyone connected with these things knew, that this report would be sent to the Public Works Com'mittee for searching inquiry and report on its recommendations. That com'mittee of all parties in this Parliament is by its status, its powers and its experience, probably the best informed group in this State on water. For years it has been investigating the water resources of Victoria, and it draws upon the knowledge and experience of every expert available. This Government, as was the case with previous Governments, does rely strongly on that committee's reports, and it has every reason to do so.

lt has been said on occasion that the Board of Works report was made as some sort of urgent warning. It was nothing of the kind. It was a sober long-range survey of !Melbourne's water supply, and very properly drew attention to the need for additional sources of water to cope with the growth of the metropolis in the future. Specifically, the Board stated that its present arrangements

Ministerial [13 MARCH, 1968.] Statement. 3601

would provide under dry seasonal conditions for a population of 2,400,000 expected by the year 1 B70, and thereafter it would require additional supplies. That view was endorsed by the Public Works Committee, after investigation, both in its progress report in December, 1964, and again in its final report last September.

I stress the words "under dry seasonal conditions", because it has been suggested that our water planning has been on the basis of " normal" or "average" rainfall. Neither the Board nor the committee would be so foolish. All planning has been done on the basis of rainfall and water harvest well below average. We have not reached 1970 and our population is still well short of 2,400,000-by some 300,000. It is obvious then that the year 1967 was one, so to speak, "out of the box ", which neither the Board nor the Public Works Committee had 'considered likely.

The Board of Works proposal to divert the Big river to Melbourne was strongly opposed before the Public Works Com'mittee by scores of organizations north of the Divide. It was also condemned by the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission, which is responsible for irrigation and water supply throughout the State beyond the metropolis. In April, 1964, the Premier stated flatly that the proposal was unacceptable, and the death-blow was given by the Public Works Committee itself in its progress report in December, 1964, in which its very first recom·mendation was:-

That the Government acknowledge that the water resources of the Big river and all other streams entering Eildon reservoir are committed for water supply to the Goulburn irrigation system and are not available for Melbourne metropolitan use. That was that. The Big river proposal was not pursued further by the Board of Works, nor by the Public Works Committee, and indeed was not raised again, until quite recently, and I think quite erroneously, in connexion with this drought.

I want now to refer briefly to the reasons given by this all-party Public Works Committee, after detailed investigation, for rejecting the Big river proposal. The first two reasons were :--

1. The waters of the Goulburn, upstrea·m of Eildon, are already fully committed for use within the Goulburn irrigation system.

2. The benefits expected from such projects as the Chowilla storage on the River Murray. the Buffalo river storage, and the Snowy Mountains hydro-electric project cannot be conveniently transmitted to ease commitments within the Goulburn Valley.

It is the committee's third reason which is so often overlooked-namely that suitable alternative sources of water were available for the metropolitan area, at reasonable cost. What were those "alternative sources"? They comprise the very forward plan recommended by the Public Works Com'mittee, ,which I have already described to the House, and which is being implemented by the Board with the approval and support of the Government, well ahead of the dates originally recommended.

Let me add two s'mall postscripts about the Big river. Australia has spent much treasure on the Snowy Mountains scheme and is rightly proud of it. A major part of that scheme is the diversion through the mountains of great quantities of water from the Snowy and other rivers which formerly flowed to waste into the sea. How foolish would it be, having brought that water into the Murray-Goulburn system with such effort and e~pense at one point to m'ake large diversions from Lake Eildon at another. Yet that is what the Big river proposal involves. Whatever the other arguments may be, let no one say that, having regard to the whole irrigation system, the Big river water for Melbourne would be cheap!

3602 Ministerial [COUNCIL.] Statement.

The second postscript is this: It has been claimed that the Board of Works is agitating for Big river water for Melbourne now. It is not. The Board unanimously agrees that the approved schemes, which I have described before, are satisfactory until the 1980's. After that, the Board has requested that the Big river proposal be reviewed. In that sense, it is the Board's alternative to the recommendation of the Public Works Committee for new storages on the Lower Yarra at Yarra Brae, to serve Melbourne after 1989. This has yet to be investigated in detail, and much water will flow down the Yarra before then.

Are there any lessons to be learned from this record drought? I believe there are at least two---Jboth quite fundamental. Up to date, the Board of Works water supply planning has counted quite strongly on stream-flow. All past experience has indicated that certain quantities of water could be relied upon to flow into the storages even under very dry conditions. But this drought has given us a ne'w conception of what is the worst that Nature can do to us. The stream-flow has fallen to levels never before imagined. We must, therefore, have more storages, expensive as they are, and this is basically the reason for advancing the construction of the Cardinia creek dam by five years.

The second lesson, which most of us in Australia hardly need, is that a reliable and reasonably cheap method of producing fresh water from the sea is an absolute essential as soon as possible. The Ministry of Fuel and Power is keeping a close watch on developments, both here and overseas, especially in nuclear plants associating desalination of water with generation of electric power. The big new plant at Los Angeles is expected to produce, in addition to vast electric power, 150,000,000 gallons of fresh water per day at a cost of 22 cents per thousand gallons. This is still well above the cost of natural water in the storages here, but I have no doubt that before long, perhaps sooner than


we expect, we shall be able to contemplate something of that kind here -the world's driest continent certainly needs it. When that day comes we shall have an assured basic supply of water which no drought can take away.

I have reviewed the situation as accurately as I can. Prejudice and hindsight aside, I cannot find that there has been lack of planning, or vision, by the Board, the Public Works Committee, or the Government. This drought is so severe that none of us can reasonably look to escape unscathed. The important thing is to learn the lessons of. the drought, to work together to overcome our difficulties, and to ensure, now that we have a new conception of the worst, that we build safeguards against it for the future. I move--

That the statement be printed.

On the motion of the Hon. J. W. GALBALL Y (Melbourne North Province), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until the next day of meeting.

VICTORIAN LIMBLESS SOLDIERS' PROVIDENT FUND (CLOSING)

BILL.

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-1 move-


The purpose of this measure is to provide for the closing of the patriotic fund known as the Victorian Limbless Soldiers' Provident Fund. This fund was established shortly after the first world war to assist soldiers who lost limbs during the war. In 1934, the moneys in the fund were transferred into the names of trustees to be held on behaU of the fund. In 1942 the' question of eligibility was further clarified by the passing of the Limbless Soldiers Trust Act, and since then the trustees have administered the fund in the interests of limbless soldiers.

·'Tya~b '".to. Lo.1Jg. Island. [13' ,MARCH, . 'l968.] Eailway Cohstrticcio.n·'Bill. 3601

'The reason for the closing of the fund is that the trustees believe it is unlikely to attract much more additional money and that most, if not all, of those who qualified for assistance under the fund have been assisted.

The financial details are that in September, 1967, the value of the securities in the fund was app'roximately $53,743, of which approximately $53,539 had been credited to members' accounts. This leaves a very sm'all amount of money yet to be distributed. As I said previously, the trustees do not expect the income of the fund to increase to any extent. Therefore, it is proposed to follow their recommendation and w.ind up the fund in accordance with the principles laid down in the Bill.

It will be noted that clause 3 provides that the trustees shall, as soon as possible after the passing of this measure, insert an advertisement twice, at least at intervals of not less than two weeks nor more than six weeks, in a daily newspaper circulating throughout. Victoria, declaring their intention to close the fund and distribute the money and securities. This action will give adequate notice to persons who might be interested. Under the Bill, the trustees shall close the fund on the 30th September, 1968.

I shall obtain certain details, such as the number of persons who have been assisted by this fund over the years, which might be of interest to honorable members at the Com,mittee stage. The method proposed in the Bill for the winding up of the fund is adequate to meet the situation. The trustees who have administered the fund should be thanked and congratulated for the work they have done in assisting those persons who have been the victims of war. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of the Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjouf!led until Tuesday, March 19.

TYABB TO LONG ISLAND RAILWAY. CONSTRUCTION BILL.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).--I move-

That this lBill be now read a second time. This is a. Bill to ·authorize construction by the Railway Construction Board o.f a short branch railway to connect the railway from Frankston to Cdb Point with private sidings to be provided by Cresco Fertilisers Limited on land owned by that company. Suitable connexion can be provided to other private sidings which might be constructed in the area with the development of Westernport, and discussions are taking place with otheffi in this regard.

Rail connexion to the Cresco property i:s required by December, 1968, for heavy inwards traffic -and, in order that construction can commence, it is important that an enabling Act be passed during the present session. It is expected that a large quantity of freight will be c·arried by the line -and that the returns avaH-able to the Railways Commissioners will m,ake the construction of the line a satisfactory proposition in due course. I am informed that the cost of all work and acquisition of land, where necess'ary, is estimated 'at $250,000. The length of railw·ay to be constructed -is about . one and one-third miles.

The Bill is a normal railway construction Bill and contains the usual machinery dauses. Cl-ause 3 empowers the Board to construct the railw·ay, and limits the extent of deviation permitted from the route laid down in the schedule. Maps of the proposed railway are 'available to members who may be interested.

Clause 4 is a machinery clause which exempts the railway from the provisions of the Railway Lands Acquisition Act 1958. The Act referred to applies only where it is desired .to obtain a contribution from adjoining land owners towards the cost of a new line to be constructed for their benefit. The procedure in such a c·ase

3604 Tyabb to Long Island' [COUNCIL.] Railway Construction Bill.

is for the creation of a railway construction trust. The last occasion on which this procedure was followed was for the construction of the Darling to Glen Waverley line in the late 1920's. The records reveal the difficulties that arose in respect of the betterment rate which was imposed in relation to that project. The area in respect of which the rate was imposed did not develop at all, and the councils had to be relieved of the responsibility. Since then, of course, the area has started to develop.

CI'ause 5 confers power on the Board to enter upon l·ands without previous consent, for the purpose of surveying, taking levels, staking out and constructing the railway. Possession of lands requi.red will not be taken e~cept under agreement with the owner or until a notice to treat has been issued. Sub-clause (2) empowers the Board to close, divert, tiake and use any road or portion thereof. Sub-clause (3) is selfexplanatory.

Clause 6 incorporates the Lands Compensation Act 1958 for the purpose of ensuring that proper compensation is paid to the owners of land acquired, used or prejudidally affected in connexion with the construction of the railw-ay. CI'ause 7 limits the compensation payable by the Board for land acquired, injured, prejudicially affected or severed to the value of the land at the date on which a notice to treat is issued.

A prov.jsion in the form of clause 8 has alw-ays -appeared in railway construction legislation concerning the liability of the Board and the Commissioners in regard to fencing. In fact, it is the practice of the Board to erect fences when a new railway is constructed. The Minister of TranspOIt agrees with this practice and has been giving consideration to changing the provision in any future legislation to state the fencing position positively, but at the same time to -make it clear that once the fence is erected, there is no further liability in respect of the fencing to lie on the Board or the Commissioners.


I understand that when the Country Roads Board acquires land it erects the fence, -and that is the end of the Board's HabiHty with regard to it. In this Bill, however, the usual provision remains, and when the Tyabb to Long Island railway is constructed .jt will not be fenced. 'f,he line parallels an existing fence along Bayview-road on one side, while on the other side se,curity fencing will necessarily be provided by the siding owners. Flashing lights will be provided where the line crosses the Frankston-Hastings road. The remaInIng clauses are selfexplanatory.

The Bill relates to the general development of the Westernport area consequent upon its f.acilities as a deep-sea port and the development of the natural gas and oil fields in Bass Strait. I am glad to say that there is considerable development in m:any parts of AustraHa. The Minister of Transport w·as recently in Western Australia for a shon: time and 'saw som·ething of the great development that is occurring in that State. The Minister was pleased to see this develop.ment, and it is 'a good thing that it has been given much pUblicity. It would be a pity if the community in Victoria failed to understand the tremendous development ·which is possible as a result of the natural gas and oil fields now avaHaJble in Bass Strait. We are not unused to large development in Vi.ctoria, but some of the present activities may slip by without due notice. This Bill represents a small part in our l'arge development, and I com:mend it to the House.

On the motion of the Hon. Archibald Todd, for the Hon. J. M. TRJJPOV,ICH (Doutta Galla Province), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the dehate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 19.

Hairdressers Registration [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3605

HAIRDRESSERS REGISTRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The Hon. V. O. DIOKIE (Minister of Health).-I move~


This Bill is introduced for the purpose of re-establishing the financial situation of the Hairdressers Registration Board of Victoria. This Board is set up under the provisions of the Hairdressers Registration Act 1958 and consists of eight persons, namely, one not pecuniarily interested in hairdressing appointed as chairman-Mr. A. C. Eldridge; one person nominated by the Minister of Education; and six others directly interested either as principals or employees in hairdressing. Of these six, two-Messrs. F. M. Waldron and A. L. McGill-are engaged in hairdressing and are selected for appointment from a panel of names submitted by the Victorian Master Hairdressers Association. It is to be noted that, of these two, one must be from outside the metropolitan area. One is selected from a panel of names submitted by the Master Ladies Hairdressel'lS and Cosmeticians Association of Victoria--Mr. R. W. Guest; one is appointed to represent schools of hairdressing-Mr. H. W. McDonald; and two are selected from a panel submitted by the Hairdressers Employees FederationMessrs. W. Nankervis and W. G. Weston. All appointments are made by the Governor in Counci1.

The Board's functions are set out at length in section 6 of the Hairdressers Registration Act, and they affect the livelihood of more than 5,000 operators of hairdressers' shops and a further 5,000 to 6,000 employees.

The maximum fees that may be charged under the Hairdressers Registration Act have, in many cases, not changed since they were originally fixed in 1936. The only changes

Session 1968.-135

that have been made concerning fees and their maximums are as follows :-.

First, in 1952, there was the introduction of 'an annual registration fee of 5s. for hairdressers who are employees and an increase in the annual fee for principals from £1 Is. to £2 2s.; and, secondly, in 1959 there was an increase in these annual fees from 5s. to lOs. ($1) and from £2 2s. to £3 3s. ($6.30) respectively.

The Board has been operating for a number of years, and during that time has built up some reserve funds from small surpluses in some years. During the past few years these surpluses have diminished or disappeared, the balances shown being as follows:-1964, $5,294 surplus; 1965, $4,160 surplus; 1966, $1,355 surplus; 1967, $4,028 deficiencysubje,ct to audit; and 1968, $3,500 deficiency--estimated.

Costs of operation are steadily increasing and the Board, acting on the advice of its registrar, has asked for provision to be made for a series of increases in the maximum amount of fees that may be charged for various services provided by the Board. These m'aximum fees wHl not be imposed immediately, but partial increases will be ·authorized by regulation made by the GovernoOr in Council. These increases will be sufficient merely to enable the Board to operate without loss.

The proposed increased maximums provided by clause 3 are-

For exam·ination : An increase from the present $2.10, fixed in 1936, to a possible maximum of $10.

For initial registration 'after examination: An increase from $2.10, fixed in 1936, toO !$3.

For the issue of a certificate of registration: An increase from $1.05, fixed in 1936, to $2.

For initial registration without ex;. amination where the person seeking registration is an employee and not a principal: An increase of the fee of 50 cents, fixed in 1936, to $2.

3 606 Hairdressers Registration [COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

For annual renewal of employees registration: For the fee of 50 cents, introduced in 1952 and raised to $1 in 1959-an increase to a maximum of $2.

For annual renewal of principals' registration: For the fee, fixed in 1936, and raised to $6.30 in 1959-an increase to a maximum of $10.

For additional fees for late renewal of registration: In the case of employees-an increase of from 50 cents to $1. In the case of principals-an increase of from $2.10 to $5.

Clause 5 provides that, in the case of registered privately owned training schools, there ~hall be an increase in the annual fee of $10, fixed in 1936, to $40, and in the late fee from $2.10, fixed in 1936, to $10.

Because of increases in fees paid to exam in efoS and in the cost of running examinations gener-ally, substantial rises in the fees charged would be justifiable, although it ,is probable that portion of the cost of examinations will be met from other receipts of the Board -as has been the case in the past. The bulk of the income of the Board will be received fr-om the annual re-registration fees determ'ined under the provisions of sub-section (4) of section 10 of the Hairdressers Registration Act 1958. This sub-section states the maximum fees that may be charged, the actual fee being fixed by regul'ations m-ade pursuant to section 22 of that Act.

Provis'ion is also being made in clauses 4 ,and 6 for substantial -increases in penalties, fixed in 1936, as provided in sections 16 and 19 of the Hairdressers Registration Act 1958. Under the provisions of subsection (6) of section 10 of that Act, all such penalties imposed are paid to the Board.

Only two other matters are touched on in this Bill. The first is referred to in clause 2. The present legislation requires the Board to publish each year a register of hairdressers or, where no register is published, a supplementary list to

The Hon. V. O. Dickie.

bring the last published register and any intervening supplementary lists up to date.

The cost of these publications is considerable, and because of the many changes that occur they are of no real value. A full register has not been published for a number of years, and even the publication of lists of changes each year costs the Board between $600 and $700. In any case, before any use could be made of any information contained in these lists, it would have to be checked with the registrar's office. I t is therefore proposed to relieve the Board of what is considered to be a useless requirement.

The second of these matters is referred to in paragraph (d) of clause 3. This paragraph will add a new sub-section (4A) to section 10. This new sub-section will enable the Board to adjust annual re-registration fees in certain cases where a person registered during the previous year who paid a full fee for that year was not in fact registered for the full year. This is primarily a fees Bill which, if passed, will permit the Hairdressers Registra tion Board to balance its profit and loss account. I commend it to the House.

On the motion of the Han. G. J. O'CONNELL (Melbourne Province), the debate was adjourned.



This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister of Health), was read a first time.

CHILDREN'S COURT (PROCEDURE) BILL.

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. As was the case with the Hairdressers Registration (Amendment) Bill, there is nothing hair-raising about this measure. It is a small technical Bill dealing with a

Children's Court [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Procedure) Bill. 3607

procedural difficulty which has been encountered in the administration of the Children's Court Act 1958. Subsection (1) of section 23 of the principal Act provides that where a child-a person under the age of seventeen years at the time of the commission of the offence-is apprehended either on a charge or as a child or young person in need of care and protection, he or she shall be taken before the Children's Court w~th!n 24 hou!s. If no court is sitting wIth10 that tIme, the child may be brought before a justice or special magistrate to be dealt with.

It is often undesirable, or at least most difficult, to bring a child in need of urgent care and protection to the court within 24 hours. Representations have been made to the Government to make the position more flexible. Therefore, this amending Bill proposes to insert a further sub-section in section 23 to provide that where a child of tender years is apprehended or is in need of care and protection, it will not be necessary to bring the child personally into court or before a special magistrate or a justice but that, as an alternative an application in respect of the child may be brought to the court or before the justice or special magistrate within that time. This seems a reasonable provision and avoids the !lecessity of brin~ing a young person 10 need of specIal attention to the Children's Court within 24 hours.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE.-Will any charge be made against the child in the court proceedings?

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON.The principal Act is not changed in other respects. In all cases it is now necessary for the children to be brought before the court within 24 hours.

The Hon. ARCHIBALD TODD.-It could be an infant in arms.

The Hon. L. H. S. THOMPSON.That is so. The amendment will make it possible for the court's attention to be directed to the matter by application to the justice or

special ma.gistrate within 24 hours without the necessity to bring the child or persons concerned into court. I commend the Bill to the House.



CEMETERIES (EXHUMATION LICENCES) BILL.

The debate (adjourned from February 27) on the motion of the Hon. V. O. Dickie (Minister of Health) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province) .-1 suppose I could " dig up" a. few points for discussion and debate on this Bill, but it would be wasting the time of the House. The Opposition gives the measure its blessing, because it will give additional people the authority to issue licences for exhuming bodies for movemEmt from one cemetery to another. Many migrants wish to remove the bodies of their loved ones to their homeland. I wish the Bill a speedy passage.

The Hont. R. W. MAY (Gippsland Province).-The Country Par~y supports this Bill and concurs \n the remarks of Mr. Elliot. There is nothing of a contentious n~tl;lre contained in i.t. . As the MInIster of Health stated, certain people desire to remove the remains of their loved ones to other places.

In country areas, cemete~ie~ were established in close proxlffilty to towns. These towns have expanded and developed, and it has been necessary to remove bodies to areas farther from the towns. I note that the Attorney-General is to be authorized to give permission for this to be done, but it would be more appropriate for the Minister of Health to do so. The Country Party gives the Bill its blessing.

The motion was agreed to. The Bi1l was read a second time,

and passed through its remaining stages.

3608 Shearers Accommodation [COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

SHEARERS ACCOMMODATION (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The debate (adjourned from February 27) on the motion of the Hon. G. L. Chandler (Minister of Agriculture) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-It is with some pleasure that the Opposition supports this Bill. Despite what some people said recently about the necessity for arbitration, the measure shows what can be achieved by conciliation. Speaking for the Australian Workers' Union and its officials, I express gratitude to the Minister of Agriculture for the time he granted and the courtesy he displayed in conducting the conciliation proceedingsthere was no arbitration-which ultimately resulted in the drafting of this Bill.

Enactment of this measure will bring the Shearers Accommodation Act into line with modern living conditions. Clause 2 provides for the deletion of paragraph (k) of subsection (2) of the principal Act and the insertion of a new paragraph (k), but its only real effect will be to make mandatory the installation of an efficient hot water system to supply water for showers. The present Act provides for a copper, and the shearer has to fill the copper, collect the wood, and cart the water to the showers or where ever he washes The fact that there are improved facilities in rural areas makes it possible for Parliament to legislate for hot water systems to be installed.

Under the existing Act, the real standard of lighting in shearers' accommodation is a kerosene light, and a shearer is limited to using I! pints of kerosene a week. When he has burnt that amount of kerosene, so far as the Act is concerned, the light goes out. Both the Minister and the graziers agreed that a shear.er should be allowed to use a little more kerosene than that quantity, and that where electricity was available it should be provided. Now, each

dining-room shall be provided with sufficient gas or pressure lamps. In some ways, these lamps are preferable to electric light. The Bill provides also that the electric power or lighting, or the kerosene lamps or other artificial lighting provided, shall be maintained in good working order and condition, and that power, fuel, or gas for the lighting shall be supplied free of charge.

A great step forward is that refrigeration is to be provided from 15th September each year to the following 15th May. The Minister will recall that there was quite some debate, before unanimous agreement was reached, on how much refrigeration space should be allowed and the Bill lays down that, when not more than eleven shearers are employed, refrigerated space of not less than six cubic feet shall be available. It also prescribes increased refrigerated space for greater numbers of shearers.

Shearers will appreciate the new standards of beds laid down in the Bill. The Act provides for a movable bedstead with a wire mattress, not less than 6 ft. 6 in. by 2 ft. 6 in., and a kapok, flock, or carbonised wool mattress. The Bill makes provision for the supply of an inner spring mattress or a kapok mattress which must be filled with 16 lb. of kapok. Hitherto, a mattress with any kapok in it met the provisions of the Act.

The minimum length of the bed has been reduced from 6 ft. 6 in. to 6 ft. 2 in., which is normal size, so that it will not be necessary for special beds to be constructed. The Act provides that a shearer shall have a dressing table and that six hooks for his clothes shall be securely attached to the wall of his sleeping accommodation. In future in addition to a dressed timber table with an even surface and those six hooks, each sleeping compartment must have a wardrobe for the use of its occupants.

In my many years of work in the industrial movement I witnessed many heated arguments about who

Shearers Accommodation [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3609

should empty lavatory pans. The Minister will know of these arguments. The boss always said that the men used them and that it was not his responsibility to arrange for them to be emptied; the men said that they would not do the job. The Bill provides that the employer must see that they are emptied. This matter has caused many fights, not all of them verbal. Another provision of the Bill is that shower recesses shall be draught-proof. This will be a great improvement in shearers' conditions because, in cold weather, it is not pleasant to take a shower in a fibrocement shower recess through which somebody has thrown a couple of rocks. The Bill recognizes that shearers are now entitled to good quality lavatory paper, so it does not matter now what a man does with his Sun News-Pictorial or Age newspaper.

These provisions may gi~e rise to some mirth but, although every honorable member takes these conveniences for granted, they have not been taken for granted by a minority of employers of shearers. As I have said. these things have led to battles, not only of words, but of fists. Although 70 per cent. of graziers have always provided reasonable accommodation and facilities, some will supply only what is laid down in the Act, so these provisions must be spelt out.

The Opposition thanks the Minister for his assistance in the negotiations which led to the preparation of the Bill. The Labor Party supports it and trusts that when the shearing season opens on 1st September, 1968, the accommodation provided for shearers will be completely in accordance with its provisions. If it is, there will be no trouble about shearers reaching a reasonable tally.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD (N orthem Province).-The purpose of this Bill is to provide for reasonable standards of accommodation for shearers. There is no need for me to repeat what Mr. Tripovich has said.

The proposed amendments to the Act were agreed upon by the Australian Workers' Union, representing the shearers of this State, and various producer organizations. The Bill is an example of what can be achieved by sensible negotiation. In his second-reading speech, the Minister of Agriculture stated that, as the present severe drought is affecting grazing areas, as well as other parts of the State, the new Act might not be proclaimed immediately. If its proclamation is delayed, because of the drought and the cost of necessary improvements, graziers and farmers will be greatly appreciative. The Country Party supports the Bill.


and committed. Clause 1, providing, inter alia-(1) This Act may be cited as the Shearers

Accommodation (Amendment) Act 1968.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-1 move-

That the following words be added to sub-clause (1) :-", and shall come into operation on a day to be fixed by proclamation of the Governor in Council published in the Government Gazette. " As I indicated in my second-reading speech, the State is suffering the most disastrous drought in its history. As the negotiations concerning the matters with which the Bill deals have been proceeding for almost two years, the Government has kept faith with the parties by introducing the new legislation at this stage. I was under the impression that the new provisions would be brought into operation by proclamation on a date to be fixed, having regard to all the circumstances. However, the amendment I have moved is necessary to make this clear, and I urge the Committee to accept it.

lt would be unfortunate if the Bill came into operation automatically after being passed, and in the midst of all their troubles connected with the drought employers of shearers were compelled to provide the amenities provided in the measure. As Mr.

3610 Shearers Accommodation L COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

Tripovich indicated, a number of graziers have already provided these amenities, but in the case of those who have not, I think it is reasonable that the introduction of the new conditions should be delayed until the difficulties caused by the drought abate to some extent. I assure Mr. Tripovich and the union that the Bill will be given effect to as early as possible.

The Bill contains much detail. This is because it was part of the bargain that the legislation should remain under the administration of the Department of Agriculture, and that, instead of being dealt with by way of regulation, all of the matters with which the Bill deals should be incorporated in the principal Act. That is what one of the parties wanted and our friends of the Australian Workers' Union were agreeable, so I had no alternative but to do what was desired. The matter was worked out in detail and the details have been incorporated in the measure. I know that you, Mr. Chairman, will be delighted because you have always favoured the inclusion in legislation of all possible details, rather than giving the Governor in ~ouncil broad powers to make provisIons by means of regulations.

This Bill is an example of what can be accomplished by sheer commonsense and round-table discussions. The union indicated how it considered accommodation should be brought up to date-the previous review had been twenty years agoand the other parties examined the proposals. Some points were accepted, and there were counterproposals and compromises on others. Eventually agreement was reached on all points and these have been incorporated in the Bill. I think the new arrangements will meet requirements for a reasonable period. I hope the industry will not suffer much longer because of the drought and that weather conditions will be such that the Bill can be proclaimed at an early date.


The Hon. J. M. TRlPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-1 endorse the Minister's remarks concerning the negotiations and other details. I have discussed the question of proclamation with Mr. Davis, the secretary of the Australian Workers' Union. I point out that the majority of graziers already provide the conditions required by the Bill and have been doing so for years. As electricity has been connected to their homes, the graziers have had it connected to the shearers' accommodation, and, similarly, septic sewerage connexions and other facilities have been provided. However, there is a certain element in all sections of the community who will provide only the bare minimum. I do not wish to pick out any employers or graziers in particular. Consequently fights and arguments occur. Even fist fights have occurred between union organizers and shearers' representatives and the owners of certain properties concerning amenities dealt with in the Bill.

The negotiations in this matter continued for a considerable period before the drought. Therefore, it will be realized that in effect the delaying of the proclamation of the measure will be a gesture to those employers who up to date have provided only the minimum of working conditions. The union and the Opposition hope the Bill can be proclaimed by the 1 st September, 1968, to coincide with the opening' of the shearing season. If that does not occur there will not be fights with the good employers, but there will be fights with those who provide only minimum conditions and who have forced us to draft this measure.

I do not wish to make the question of regulations a point of controversy, but I point out that certain people insist on everything that must be provided in shearers' accommodation being embodied in the legislation because they fear what a Government might do by means of regulations. This happens in every industry. Apparently they fear that at some stage the present Opposition will form the

Commercial Goods Vehicles [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3611

Government. My party agrees with what is being done, although it would prefer the Government to fix the standards by regulation, thus obviating the necessity to bring Bills before Parliament from time to time. Some of the minority of graziers who will not concede anything to the shearers, will even measure the kapok to see that 16 lb. and not 16! lb. goes into the palliasses. We have had experience of this very thing. I do not object to the delay in the proclamation of the legislation, but I point out that negotiations have been going on for two years, and urge the Government to proclaim the new Act at the earliest possible opportunity.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-I have noted Mr. Tripovich's remarks, but I should not like to commit myself any further at present concerning the proclama tion of the new Act. I repeat my assurance that it will be proclaimed as early as possible, taking all the relevant factors into consideration. It would be harsh to do so in the middle of the drought.

The amendment was agreed to, and the clause, as amended, was adopted, as was clause 2.

Clause 3 was adopted with verbal amendments.

The Bill was reported to the House with am~ndments, and passed through its remaining stages.


Tohis Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Hon. G. L. Chandler (Minister of Agriculture), for the Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister of Health), was read a first time.

MELBOURNE HARBOR TRUST (BORROWING POWERS) BILL. This Bill was received from the

Assembly ,and, O'n the motion of the Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture), was read a first time.

A.DJOURNMENT. The Hon .. G. L. CHANDLER (Min

ister of Agriculture).-By leave, I move-

That the Council, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday next.


until Tuesday, March 19.

1Jltgislnlint !\sstmhly. Wednesday, March 13, 1968.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie) took the chair at 4.2 p.m., and read the prayer.

R.OAD TRAFFIC. SCHOOL FOR DRIVERS: TENURE OF

BUNDOORA SITE. For Mr. MOSS (Leader of the

Country Party), Mr. B. J. Evans asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether the form of tenure of the 20 acres of land at Bundoora made available to the Royal Automobile Club of Victoria for a school for drivers has yet been decided?

Mr. RYI .. AH (Chief Secretary).The answer is-

No. As indicated in my reply to a question on 28th February, it is intended to submit legislation in regard to this school and the form of tenure, which is within the province of my colleague the Minister of Lands, will be one of the matters to be defined in the proposed Bill.

SOCIAL WELFARE BRANCH. FAMILY GROUP HOMES.


How many of the twelve family group homes run by the Social Welfare Branch are at present staffed by cottage mothers and not cottage parents, and what is the staffing policy of the Branch for family group homes?

3612 Social Welfare Branch. [ASSEMBLY.] Arts Centre.


Seven by cottage parents and five by cottage mothers.

The staffing policy is to employ, if possible, married cottage mothers with husbands able to live on the premises. Such husbands are not employed by the Branch, but their presence is desirable to provide the " father" figure in the homes.

PRIVATE ADOPTION AGENCIES:

ApPLICATIONS FOR ApPROVAL: ApPROVALS WITHDRAWN AND REVOKED: SUBSIDIES.


1. Under the Adoption of Children Act 1964 (Part II., Division 2, section 18), how many "charitable organizations" have applied to him for approval as private adoption agencies since the proclamation of the Act?

2. How many organizations have been refused approval, and what are the names of these organizations?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).The answers are-

l. Twenty-seven. 2. None has been refused, but four appli

cations were withdrawn by Mildura Base Hospital, Footscray and District Hospital, St. Vincent's Maternity and Mount Alvernia Hospital, Bendigo.


How many private adoption agencies have had their approval revoked or suspended since the proclamation of the Adoption of Children Act 1964, what are the names of these organizations, and what were the grounds for revocation or suspension of approval in each case?


One only, namely, the Warrnambool and District Hospital, whose approval was revoked at its own request.


Whether consideration is being given to Government subsidies for private adoption agencies; if so, whether the Government will ensure that subsidies are given only to agencies which meet the professionally accepted standards of adoption practice observed by the Social Welfare Branch?


This is one of the subjects being considered by the special committee appointed to examine matters affecting the Social Welfare Branch. The question of standards will depend upon resolution of the first matter.

ARTS CENTRE. ADMITTANCE FEE.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether the Trustees of the Cultural Centre have considered charging the general public an admittance fee to the new Arts Centre; if so, how much it will cost to enter the centre; if not, whether this matter will be considered?

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).This matter is still receiving consideration.

ROAD AND WATER TRANSPORT. COMMONWEALTH PAYMENTS.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East) asked the Minister of Public Works-

What money has been received from the Commonwealth Government for transport by road and water each year from 1964-65 to date?


Moneys received from the Commonwealth Government for transport by road and water each year from 1964-65 have been-

Road. Water.

$ $

1964-65 .. 25,182,160.18 393,471.25

1965-66 .. 27,114,758.07 392,967.52

1966-67 .. 29,050,088.76 392,568.77

1967-68 .. 30,895,118.97 391,077.46

Totals .. 112,242,125.98 1,570,085.00

MELBOURNE HARBOR TRUST. YARRAVILLE OIL DOCK: ESTIMATED

COST.

Mr. DIVERS (Footscray) asked the Minister of Public Works-

When the construction of the new oil wharves at Yarraville will commence, and what is the estimated cost?

Melbourne and Metropolitan [13 MARCH, 1968.] Board of Works. 3613


Preliminary works for the construction of the oil dock at Yarraville, which will replace the existing marginal oil wharves in the Yarra river, are expected to commence next week.

The estimated cost is $1,000,000.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF

WORKS. WATER CONSERVATION: PROJECTS

AUTHORIZED: YARRA BRAE AND THOMSON RIVER STORAGES.

Mr. FLOYD (Wil1iamstown) asked the Minister of Public Works, for the Minister for Local Government-

Whether, in view of the many press reports of public utterances by the chairman, members and officers of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works concerning certain future water planning, the Government will furnish a concise statement setting out projects authorized to date and progress made with investigation of the Yarra Brae storage proposal and the Thomson river storage proposal?

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-The Minister for Local Government proposes to make a comprehensive statement to Parliament on the metropolitan water supply and a copy will be supplied to the honorable member.

TRAFFIC COMMISSION. SURVEY AT MOONEE PONDS JUNCTION.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Public W orks-

What are the results of the traffic count taken at the junction of Puckle-street, Deanstreet, Pascoe Vale-road, and Mount Alexander-road, on Thursday, 23rd November, 1967?


The results of the traffic count were as follows:-

1. A.M. Peak 7-8 a m.

Total Two-way Volumes. Motor Vehicles. Trams.

--------------------- ----------Pascoe Vale-road .. Alexandra-avenue .. Dean-street . . . . Mt. Alexander-road (South) .. Ascot Vale-road Puckle-street . . . . Mt. Alexander-road (North)

764 46 446 408

2,4821 46 294 1 377

2,498

2. P.M. Peak 4.30-5.30 p.m.

Total Two-way Volumes. Motor Vehicles. Trams.

-------------------- ----- -----Pascoe Vale-road .. Alexandra-avenue .. Dean-street . . . . Mt. Alexander-road (South) .. Ascot Vale-road Puckle-street . . . . Mt. Alexander-road (North)

461 354 541

2,227 684 732

3,252

40

40 4

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.

TECHNICAL SCHOOLS: MAINTENANCE GRANTS.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Education-

1. Whether the Minister is aware of the concern of many technical schools at the lack of notification of their current maintenance grants?

2. What is the reason for the undue delay and when such notifications can be expected by these schools?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-The answers supplied by the Minister of Education are-

1. Yes. 2. The determination of technical grants

has been complicated by the calculation of the tertiary element of grants to technical colleges of advanced education. Schools not in the advanced education group will be notified of their grants this week.

HIGH SCHOOLS: SCIENCE BLOCK FACILITIES: ACTIVITIES OF COM-MITTEE.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Education-

Who are the members of the special committee to examine science block facilities at high. schools, how often they meet, and what hIgh schools have been investigated to date?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answer supplied by the Minister of Education is-

The members of the committee are the Inspectors. ?~ Science in the Secondary S~hools DIvIs~on together with an Assistant DIrector of Secondary Education. During

3614 Level Crossings. [ASSEMBLY.] Racing (Amendment) Bill.

the summer vacation the committee holds a number of informal discussions on science facilities in all high schools; final priorities are determined when actual enrolments are available in the second week of the school year.

LEVEL CROSSINGS.

COUNTRY ACCIDENTS: FLASHING LIGHTS: IRYMPLE CROSSING.

Mr. WHITING (Mildura) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. How many accidents at level crossings fitted with flashing lights (giving the number of fatalities) have occurred in country areas of the State in each of the last five years?

2. How many accidents (giving the number of fatalities) have occurred at country level crossings without flashing lights?

3. How many accidents have occurred at the Calder Highway level crossing at Irymple, prior to and since flashing lights have been installed?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The statistics sought by the honorable member are long and involved, and, in one case, relate to the year 1943. It will take a considerable time to compile the statistics, but I shall see that they are obtained and supplied to the honorable member in due course.

STATE RIVERS AND \VATER SUPPLY COMMISSION.

IRRIGATION PRODUCTION: WATER USED: CURRENT REQUIREMENTS.

Mr. WHITING (Mil dura) asked the Minister of Water Supply-

1. What was the total value of produce from irrigation areas north of the Divide in each of the last five years?

2. What was the average quantity of water used in this production over the last five irrigation seasons, excluding 1967-68?

3. What is the estimated amount of water required for the 1967-68 season?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Water Supply) .-The answers are-

1. The estimated value of production in all irrigation districts north of the Divide in the past five years is as follows. Separate figures are not available for each area or district. The estimates are based on prices in the principal markets except for dairy products and canning fruits where prices to the producers have been used.

2.

1962-63 1963-64 1964-65 1965-66 1966-67

$ 97,500,000

107,500,000 112,000,000 113,000,000 not available.

Deliveries to District Users at Farm Boundaries

acre-feet. 1962-63 1,194,028 1963-64 1,271,116 1964-65 1,406,646 1965-66 1,467,250 1966-67 1,622,641 Average five years.. 1,392,340

3. Estimated 1967-68-1,448,000 acre-feet. NOTE.-The figures supplied in answers to

questions Nos. 2 and 3 exclude use by private diverters and town supply systems.

COMMONWEALTH WATER CONSERVATION LEGISLATION: FILE re VICTORIAN ApPLICATION.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East) asked the Minister of Water Supply-

If he will lay on the table of the Library files relating to the Victorian Government's application for works under the Commonwealth water conservation legislation.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Water Supply) .-The answer is-

Yes, the file has been laid on the table of the Library.

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE (M.M.B. W.) BILL.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) moved for leave to bring in a Bill to provide for the appointment of a Joint Select Committee of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly to inquire into and report upon certain ques,Hons relating to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, and for other purposes.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was br.ought in and read

a first time.

RACING (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary)

moved for leave to br.ing in a Bill to amend the Racing Act 1958.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read

a first time.


CHELTENHAM CEMETERY LANDS EXCHANGE BILL.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) moved for leave to bring in a Bill to provide for the revocation of the reservation of certain land in the Parish of Moorabbin permanently reserved as a site for a cemetery and for the exchange thereof for certain other land in the said parish and for the reservation of that other land as a site for a cemetery.

The mot'ion was agreed toO. The Bill was b~ought in and read

a first time.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. NEWSPAPER REPORT: ALLEGED POLITI

CAL STATEMENTS BY SENIOR PUBLIC SERVANTS. The Order of the Day, that the

Ministerial statement with respect to alleged political statements by senior public servants be printed, was read.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition).-On Tuesday next, I shall be in a position to honour the undertaking I gave the House yesterday to make a statement on this m·atter. I ask that the matter be adjourned until that day.

Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).-In view of the statement made by the Leader of the Opposition, I agree that the debate on this question should be -adJourned until Tuesday next.


MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. WATER SITUATION.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Water Supply).-By leave, I desire to make a statement to the House about the w·ater situation in the State.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Leave of the House is not required for a Ministerial statement.

Mr. BORTHWICK.-It is not my intention to cover in detail the situation that applies in the metropolitan area, because, as honorable members

are aware, that does not come within my field of administration. However, the Minister for Local Government, in another place, will cover that aspect, and I will make some general observations so that if honorable members wish to debate the position, I will at least have opened up the subject to allo·w them to do so.

At the conclusion of this trying, hot and almost rainless summer, honorable members are aware that the State 'a.s a whole has faced, and still faces, the worst drought in recorded history. Springs, creeks and streams never before known to be dry, are dry; stream flows have varied from equal to the worst prior perioOd of 1914, toO only a fraction of the lowest ever before recorded. Districts and townships, even in what are usually classed as more favourable rainfall areas, face extremely difficult situations. Diversion of water for 'irrigation has been completely stopped on 130 streams, whilst limited supplies are severely rostered on a further 35 streams.

Supply for stock, do·mestk and urban water users has first priority, and this is the main reason for the impoOsition of total bans or severe restrictions on irrigation by private diversion. However, in many areas of the State, stream,s and springs have completely dried up and landowners-and in some cases householders-are forced to c-art water for many miles from bores or dams. The Government has c'arried out and encouraged an active bore-driHing programme to assist in these areas.

IRRIGATION DISTRICTS: The allocation of water to individual irrigators in the major irrigation districts for the current season i's on the following basis :-

Goulburn-Murray-Water right plus 10 per cent. s'ales.

McAlister·-Water right plus 5 per cent. sa.les.

Werribee-Bacchus Marsh-55 per cent. water right.

Pumping districts from River Murray--Nonnal deliveries.


Although stream flows throughout the State are generally lower than ever previously recorded, theexistence of the many l'arge storages constructed over the past fifteen years will permit total deliveries of water in the above districts being only 10 per cent. less than the record volume delivered in 1967-68; in fact, the expected delivery this season has been exceeded on only two occasions. In a year of unprecedented drought this has been a remarkable achievement and highlights the great value of water conservation and the necessity to continue further programmes.

Total volume of water in all CommISSIon storages and the Hume reservoir at 1st M'arch -is 2,121,000 acre-feet compared with total capacity of 7,210,310 acre-feet when all storages are full. These storages will be further depleted by the end of the irrigation season, ·and stream flows in northern Victorian streams over the next twelve months will need to be three times greater than last year-that is, at least 70 per cent. of the average annual flowfor the Commission to be in a position to deliver basic water rights next season.

To illustrate the present position, it is anticipated that all storages serving the huge Goulburn-Murray and Murray Valley irrigation districts, including Eildon, will, excluding dead storage, be down to a total of 700,000 acre-feet by the end of the season, or less than one-sixth of capacity. The Hume reservoir is expected to be empty by the end of April. The minimum carry-over reserve is 700,000 acre-feet, and this explains the Commission's inability to make further sales 'Of water available this season.

The Wim,mera-Glenelg storages, generally known as the Grampian storages, supply the 11,000 farms and many towns of the Wimmera and Mallee districts. These storages have been steadily depleting since Rocklands, the largest dam in this extensive network, last filled in 1960. Total storage capacity for this system is 618,170 acre-feet. At the 1st March,

Mr. Borthwick.

only 38,740 acre-feet was held in reserve, or about one-sixteenth of capacity, despite the fact that this season about 25,000 acre-feet was supplied to the north-eastern section of the Mallee from the EildonWaranga storages. I cite another example of the serious situation in the Grampians. Lake Bellfield, completed in 1966, with a capacity of 63,600 acre-feet, in normal seasons could be expected to store 20,000 acre-feet annually. In two years it has stored only a total of 10,000 acrefeet, 9,000 acre-feet in 1966-67 and 1,000 acre-feet in 1967-68.

Of the 39,000 acre-feet at present in the Grampian storages, only 16,000 acre-feet is available by gravity. In order to make use of water held below gravity take-off, pumps have been installed and are operating at Toolondo and Pine Lake storages. Late last year, it became apparent that the Commission would not be able to supply the Mallee from the Grampians next winter unless extremely heavy rain occurred. By mid-December, the expenditure of substantial sums of money was needed to increase the capacity of the west Waranga channel for over 100 miles to ensure wa ter for the Mallee in the coming winter period.

Perhaps I could be accused of recommending something that may not be needed; but the alternative of delayed decision and the effect on a vast area of the State if the drought did not break reinforced the view that this work should be undertaken as a matter of urgency. It was put in hand in mid-December and will ensure that this year some 54,000 acre-feet can be taken some 400 channel-'miles from Eildon to that area of the Mallee north of Birchip. A further 6,000 acre-feet will be pumped to the Northeastern section of the Mallee syste,m from the Murray at Nyah.

Eildon dam has been the keystone in the fight against drought in the dry north. It will continue to be so this winter. Good rains and run-offs into


storages in the Grampians will be needed, however, to give full supply to farms south of Birchip. There now appears to be sufficient water in these storages for township supplies and emergency supplies. Exploratory boring is taking place in the foothills of the Grampians in an endeavour to locate a satisfactory underground water supply. The purpose is to develop a supply which can be connected to pipe-lines serving Stawell and Ararat and feed into channels which serve other towns. No positive results have yet been achieved.

COUNTRY TOWNSHIPS SUPPLIES: In most parts of the State, continued lack of rain and inflow to local storages have necessitated restrictions being placed on consumption by 'most local waterworks trusts. Notable exceptions are those towns drawing on the Goulburn river which carries a large volume of water for irrigation, together with towns relying on w:at~r stored in the Moondarra reservOIr In the Latrobe Valley. Many drought relief works have been commenced and have been completed to augment supplies. There has been an expenditure of $195,000 on additional pipelines to the townships of Glenthompson, Great Western and Willaura. Supplementary bores and pumping equipment have been installed, or are being investigated, to provide additional supplies to Wangaratta, Dunkeld, Hamilton, Bairnsdale, Koo-WeeRup, Sunbury, Warrnambool and Willaura.

Additional pumps to increase pumping from local streams have been installed at Broadford, Geelong, Toora and Creswick. Other emergency works have been undertaken at Warrandyte, Warragul, Drouin and Clunes. The Coleraine-Casterton trust, facing a breakdown in supply, has been given approval for the installation of a new bore and pipe-line at an estimated cost of $250,000. It is important to note that up to 30th June, 1967, the total expenditure on' country town water supplies in

Victoria's history was $62,000,000, of which $52,000,000 has been expended since this Government took office in 1955.

SALINITY: Honorable members are aware of the growing danger of salinity in the River Murray. It could have been anticipated that, with a tightly controlled river flow this year, there would have been a desperate position. This has not been the case.

Wentworth pool is being held at about 250 parts per 1,000,000-which is safe. Sm,aller drainage flows entering the Little Murray from Barr creek, and the emergency works carried out in November at Lake Hawthorne in Sunraysia, which interconnected Hawthorne and Ranfurley, allowing drainage to the Murray to cease, has brought this about. I am pleased to report that the Commonwealth Government., in December, made $3,600,000 available for diversion of saline drainage away from the Murray to evaporation basins. This valuable work is already well under way and it is expected to be completed by Commission construction teams by the end of August.

CONSERVATION PROGRAMME: In times of drought, the question is asked: What has been done in the tremendously important field of water conservation? Because of the great interest in the matter, I wish to place on record dams completed in the past four years or now under construction. They are-

Eppalock (Campaspe river) 252,800 acre-feet; completed 1964.

Devilbend (Mornington Peninsula) 11,800 acre-feet; completed 1965.

This dam has been of tremendous value in the area which it serves.

Buffalo (stage one) (Buffalo river) 20,000 acre-feet; completed 1965.

Bellfield (Grampians) 63,600 acrefeet; cmnpleted 1966.

Nillahcootie (Broken river) (south of Bena.lla) 32,500 acre-feet; completed 1967.


Corop lakes (stage one) 26,000 acre-feet; completed 1967.

Tarago (Neerim South) 20,000 acre-feet; almost completedstorage to commence in May of this year.

Merrimu (Coimadai creek and tunnels from Goodmans creek near Bacchus Marsh-now under construction by contract) 15,000 acre-feet; to be completed late 1968 or 1969.

Mokoan (diversion channels from Broken river under construction to the Winton swamp area) 300,000 acre-feet; to be completed by 1971.

The Mokoan dam will work in conjunction with the Nillahcootie reservoir. When it is completed, it will be the third largest water storage in this State.

Many of these storages have already been of great value and prove the worth of the ten-year conservation programme commenced by the Government in 1963. That was a programme of forward planning that has allowed the development of two highly skilled, professionally expert, construction teams, and continuity of design, geological and survey work unique in the history of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission. In recent years, before a dam has been finally completed, work has been phased in on another and, at anyone time, two dams have been in course of construction.

Surveyors and geologists are actively collecting information on a number of further dam sites so that the programme of water conservation, by the construction of large dams, can continue without interruption. Another ten-year programme is now in the process of being drawn up.

MELBOURNE: As my colleague in another place will be covering this in detail, I shall limit myself to several observations. The Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, in all its requests and evidence to the

Mr. Borthwick.

Public Works Committee, stated that the present storages and catchments were adequate, under dry seasonable conditions, for a population of 2,400,000-the present population of Melbourne is 2,100,000. At no stage did the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works contemplate the building of new storages in its first stage of further development, but it asked for additional diversions to existing storages from 1969 onwards. The Board's request for a 20,000 million gallon diversion, by some eight miles of tunnel from the Big river, was dismissed by the Public Works Committee and replaced by a recommendation from that committee for further development in the Yarra system. This was worth 12,000 million gallons per annum at approximately half the cost of Big river water. Most of these diversions and others, expanding the catchment area of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works by some 25 per cent., will be in operation to harvest water this winter for a total additional average flow of almost 15,000 million gallons per annum.

Cardinia stor~ge dam, in itself almost as large as all existing Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works storages, recommended by the Public Works Committee to be in operation by 1977, is to be completed by 1972. Stage 1 and stage 2 of the Thomson river diversion are already approved and will bring a further 40,000 million gallons per annum to Melbourne. The third stage of the Thomson scheme-construction of a large dam-is under intensive investigation.

The Thomson diversions, Upper Yarra and Cardinia-and ultimately the Thomson dam-will be interlocked, as are different catchments in the Snowy complex. There is much misapprehension among so-called informed people in Victoria, who believe that the value to Melbourne of the third stage Thomson dam will


be only about 6,600 million gallons. If these people read the excellent report submitted by the Public Works Committee, they would know that if the third stage of plans AI, A2 or A3 is accepted by the Board as a result of the inter-locking of the catchments-as was done in Australia in the Snowy scheme-the thirdstage dam will have a value of almost 35,000 million gallons to Melbourne.

Mr. FLOYD.-It will be a bonus of 28,000 million gallons.

Mr. BORTHWICK.-As the honorable member for Williamstown has said by way of interjection, the interlocking of the dams will give a bonus of 28,000 million gallons of water to Melbourne. Because water can be transferred from catchment to catchment, the true value of the Thomson river third stage dam is 34,600 million gallons. I offer no apology for what I am about to say about proposals laid before Parliament for the future development of Melbourne's water supply. It is a magnificent scheme and, in total, will provide, with existing works, adequate supplies for a population of 6,000,000-Melbourne 5,000,000 and Mornington Peninsula 1,000,000.

I emphasize that the interim diversions, replacing that asked for by the Board-Big river-will be largely in operation this winter, long before the Board's evidence suggested they would be required, and that the first stage of the Thomson scheme and Cardinia are scheduled for completion in 1972 and, in the case of Cardinia storage, five years prior to the Public Works Committee's recommended completion date.

Much has been mistakenly said and written about Big river water-as though it were the only water available to Melbourne. It should again be emphasized that the Public Works Committee is a joint committee of all parties. After. studying all' the evidence, that committee unanimously found against the diversion of water from the Big river south of the Dividing Range. The water was already in

use. It is of interest that, even if it had been diverted, and the Board had started tunnelling immediately----and its evidence suggests that this would not have occurred-it would have been of little value in this year of extreme drought as the so called Big river has been, comparatively speaking, a very little river this year. It would have needed the whole flow recorded at Jamieson to provide 20,000 million gallons. Certainly, half of the flow of one-third of the catchment would have given very little water during this difficult summer. Nor could it have provided much in storage by way of reserve, for the Upper Yarra dam was full from Yarra sources in November, 1966, during the summer preceding the drought.

One point that should be noted is that Australians are proud of the Snowy scheme. There, portions of flows from the favoured .coastal belt were diverted to the dry northern Murray-Murrumbidgee system. Now, some people sugge~t that from that same interlocked system-the unprecedented drought has shown that Eildon plays a major role-we should divert water back again. In other words, to some degree, that means that the Snowy system should be robbed of some of its value. That just does not make sense; it would if there were no other resources readily available, but the position is that south of the divide, along the more favoured coastal belt to the east, there are untapped, undeveloped streams, of which the Thomson and Aberfeldy are two, which are suffiCient, with the water already harnessed in the Yarra, to supply 6,000,000 people and, at the same time, provide for substantial development in Gippsland. I will say no more than that I am certain that honorable members will develop various idea.s of their own in debate. By leave, I move-

That the statement be printed. Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).-I

move-That the debate be' now adjourned.

3620 Ministerial Statement. [ASSEMBLY.] Transport Regulation (Amendment) Bill.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-on a point of order, Mr. Speaker, should not the motion that the statement be printed first be passed by the House in order that the debate may be resumed later?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-The motion before the Chair is that the statement be printed. If that motion is carried, the statement will be printed and the matter will be finished with. If the honorable member for Williamstown wishes to do so, before that motion is put, he may move that the debate be adjourned.

Mr. FLOYD (WJlliamstown).-1 am prepared to do that, Mr. Speaker, but if that motion is carried, how will the statement be printed?

The SPEAKER.-That is a nice question, but that is how it seems to happen.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-1 rise to a point of order, Mr. Speaker. 1 should have thought there was a procedure whereby a motion that the Ministerial statement be printed could be carried, and a further motion, that the matter be placed on the Notice Paper as an Order of the Day, could be put. Then, the statement would be printed and there could also be a debate on the substance of the statement. 1 seek your guidance on this matter.

The SPEAKER.-I am carrying out the custom of this place. 1 believe that, in another Parliament, the procedure mentioned by the Minister for Transport is adopted. Here, the procedure is that the statement be taken into account on the motion that the statement be printed. That puts the matter before the House and it can be debated.

Mr. FENNESSY (Brunswick East). -If the motion that the statement be printed is not carried, does that mean that the statement will not be available outside the House?

The SPEAKER.-I think Hansard will take care of that because the statement will be recorded. The

motion that the statement be printed is a formality which is a custom in this place.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-On a further point of order, yesterday the Premier and Treasurer moved that a Mini'sterial statement, whioh was made in this Chamber, be printed. Consequently, the statement was automatic-ally placed on the Notice Paper for to-day.

The SPEAKER.-As I recall, that was a separate motion. The rulings I have given are the custom in this House. Of course, if members want to alter the customs, they may do so. It would have the same effect. I shall put the motion of the honorable member for Williamstown.

The motion f.or the adjournment of the debate w·as agreed to, ·and it wa's ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, M'arch 20.


The debate (adjourned from March 6) on the motion of Mr. Wilcox (Minister of Transport) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. FLOYD (WiUiamstown).-The Opposition does not oppose this Bill. Over the past few years, a number of instances have come to notice of procedures and functions being carried out, both in P.arliament and in the community outside, which. when it was desired to extend in some direction, were found to be open to some legal doubt. This has happened in regard to thec-arriage of goods by taxis, hire cars and buses, which has been permitted by the Transport Regulation Board in certain circumstances. As honorable members are aware, over the years taxis, whose purpose is the carriage of passengers, have on odd occasions been used to carry goods. I suppose on some occasion almost every member of this House has had to use a taxi to travel home in order to obtain a file and bring it back to Parliament House. Similarly in an emergency

Transport Regulation [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3621

the Australian Red Cross Society has arranged for a taxi to carry urgent medicine to an address in the suburbs.

I suppose even urgent parcels should be conveyed by commercial road vehicles, but in all phases of our com,munity life we cannot be hide bound and Hve only by' strict rules because in some instances a human element is involved. No one can object to this, and the road operators are not doing so. A public inquiry was held into this matter and the Minister of Transport has 'been kind enough to provide me with a copy of the transcript of the proceedings. It was not necessary for me to read the whole transcript, but I examined the pavts which have ,a bearing on the Bill. This public inquiry was held on the 13th September, 1967, by the Transport Regulation Board. Apparently Mr. W. King, of the Victorian Road Transport Association, raised some objection concerning the validity of taxis and hire cars carrying the types of items that I mentioned.

One purpose of the Bill is to make legal or \"alidate what has already been taking place, but it does not permit an extension of the practice. The Opposition offers no objection to the proposal. In a complex society such 'as we live in, there will always be someone who feels that an{)ther person is impinging on his functions. In recent years, our transport facilities have been developed to a fine degree, 'and it is inevitable that 'On occasions some slight clash of interest must occur. In this particular instance the matter is not of great importance. It i,s generally agreed that taxis should be permitted to carry medicines for the Australian Red Cross Society, luggage, and so on.

There is another Bill concerning commercial goods vehicles before the House which is complementary to this measure. The honorable member for Broadmeadows, who ,is dealing with that measure on behalf of the Opposition, will explain how valuable are

some of these commercial services, and how important their functions are to the cornmunity which they serve.

The other aspect of the Bill concerns the desirability of providing regulations to control the liberalization of dress of the drivers of taxis, hire cars and buses. The Minister clarified the position in his secondreading speech, and pointed out that in recent years the conservative male has decided to do something about dress for the hot weather. Apparently now men of all shapes and sizes are permitted to wear shorts, although some of us are somewhat diffident about doing so. Although well-cut shorts and sports shirts with ties are acceptable in most places, everyone is not inclined to adopt such dress. Being one of the old school, I prefer to continue to wear a blue serge suit. Of course, there is always the idiot who wants to go too far and appear in a grotesque rig-out, and therefore it is necessary to regulate what the drivers of public vehicles may wear. The Opposition has no objection to this, as its members believe that in all things there should be moderation. If taxi drivers and others are to be permitted to wear shorts and shirts, there must be regulations to ensure that they do not turn themselves out in bathing togs.

I did not think this Bill warranted very much research in the way of seeking the views of drivers and other persons, because what is proposed is common sense. However, the question has been raised whether the Bill will have any effect on people who wear uniforms on buses and trams. Obviously this is outside the scope of the Bill, because such uniforms are defined, and one would have to be very clever to arrange a variation in a prescribed uniform. Of course, members of the Navy must conform to the naval uniform, but often some of them play it hard and make some minor alteration to their uniform to make it more fashionable or "with it" as it is termed, but nevertheless it is still a uniform.

3622 Commercial Goods Vehicles [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

Obviously regulations dealing with the dress of drivers of taxis and hire cars have nothing to do with the dress of persons who wear uniforms. That is a matter between the wearers of the uniform and the employing organization. To make the point final and binding, the Transport Regulation Board has nothing to do with the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board. I make that clear in case anyone thinks the Labor Party will now object to the liberalization of the uniforms of tramway men, railwaymen or firemen. The matter is entirely one for the men concerned and their employing organizations. I hope my comments will clear up some of the red herrings that are sometimes drawn across the trail in relation to these matters. The Opposition has no objection to the Bill.


and committed. Clause 1 was agreed to. Clause 2 (Amendment of Act No.

6400, section 23) . Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans

port) .-1 thank the honorable member for Williamstown for his comments on the Bill, in which he clearly explained the purpose of the measure.

The clause was agreed to, as was the remaining clause.

The Bill was reported to the House without amendment, and passed through its remaining stages.


The debate (adjourned from March 5) on the motion of Mr. Wilcox (Minister of Transport) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).As my colleague, the honorable member for Williamstown, indicated when speaking to the Transport Regulation (Amendment) Bill, this measure is complementary to it, and the House must pass it to enable the

previous measure to have any real value. Under the existing Commercial Goods Vehicles Act, as the Minister pointed out in his second-reading speech, it is not possible for a person to hold both a commercial goods vehicles licence and a licence under the Transport Regulation Act.

For many years, throughout the rural parts of the State, commercial vehicles licensed to carry passengers have also been carrying goods of a limited range. Unless the bus operators were permitted to do this, particular services would become uneconomic and many operators would choose to go out of business, leaving the rural communities that they served without transport services of any kind-or, at the best, services of only an extremely limited nature. In some cases they would be provided by the Victorian Railways and might be a train service once a week, or something of that order.

The practice to which I have referred is widely engaged in, particularly in the Wimmera and Mallee districts, of which I have personal knowledge. In many instances, the fact that the bus opera tor has a mail contract in addition to a licence to carry passengers has made the difference between his remaining in business and going out of business. As the Opposition is a progressive party, always alert to the welfare of the community and most anxious to see that it receives all the services to which it is entitled, the Bill will not be opposed.

Mr. WHITING (Mildur'a).-The circumstances referred to by the honorable member for Broadmeadows do occur in country areas, particularly in the north-west of the State. Therefore, the Country Party wholeheartedly supports the Bill. A matter that causes my party a little concern is that apparently it is only recently that some doubt has arisen about the power of the Transport Regulation Board to authorize passenger bus operators to carry goods. I trust tha t the remedy embodied in the Bill will be satisfactory.

Commercial Goods Vehicles [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Amendment) Bill. 3623

The railway system in Victoria has major lines fanning out from Melbourne to the various corners of the State, and, in contrast to the situation in some areas in other States, only limited provision has been made for 'connecting links. Goods consigned from the north-west of Victoria to Portland must be transported as far south as Maryborough and then diverted to the west to reach their destination. Large distances are involved and no parcel services operate because of the doubt whether reasonably full loadings could be obtained at any given time.

Bus services provide a valuable amenity for people living in country communities, and members of the Co un try Party are concerned to see that everything possible is done to maintain them and to ensure that they conform. with the law.


and committed. Clause 1 was agreed to. Clause .2, relating to the interpre-

tation of " commercial goods vehicle ".

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).This clause provides that in the interpretation of "commercial goods vehicle " in section 3 of the principal Act after the words "does not include" there shall be inserted the following words-any such motor car which is a licensed passenger vehicle and is carrying goods in accordance with its licence and the regulations or. I ask the Minister whether he will give an assurance that the proposed amendment will not amount to a widening of permission to carry goods. It must be borne in mind that there are people engaged in commercial vehicle operations who are carriers in the true sense of the word. Their rights should be protected and a situation should not be allowed to develop to the point where the operator of a licensed passenger vehicle can attach a trailer to the prime mover and become a general

carrier as well. The bona fide carrier is entitled to protection, particularly as he contributes in many ways to the economy of the State by way of the payment of road tax, licence fees, and so on. In his operations he is restricted to the carriage of goods, and is not permitted to carry passengers. I a.sk the Minister to assure the Comrnittee that, when the regulations are being drafted, the Government will be mindful of these circumstances.

Mr. WlLCOX (Minister of Transport) .-1 thank honorable members for their reception of the Bill. I am mindful of the matter raised by the honorable member for Broadmeadows. Indeed, in discussions which preceded the drafting of the measure I discussed this subject with the chairman of the Transport Regulation Board. As honorable members will realize, the Board is the tribunal which adjudicates in these matters; actually, it is not so much an adjudication as an inquiry, and one such inquiry brought to light the defect in the existing legislation. Perhaps this is an indication of the manner in which the Transport Regulation Board goes about its work. It has to adjudicate upon a number of individual claims. Sometimes members of the Board want to know the general situation relating to one facet of the transport industry. Difficulties arose between the taxi and carrier sections of the industry, and the Board decided to hold the public inquiry to which reference was made earlier to-day. This Bill has been brought in as a result of that inquiry.

Discussions I have had with the chairman of the Transport Regulation Board enable me to assure the Committee that the Board will be very careful in implementing the change in the law which will follow the passage of this Bill. I do not think there will be any departure from the existing situation. In discussions with the Board, I have pointed out that the Board should

3624 Melbourne Harbor Trust [ASSEMBLY.] (Borrowing Powers) Bill ..

bear in mind the very points raised by the honorable member for Broadmeadows. I am sure that this course will be followed.

The only other comment I need make is that the honorable member for Mildura supported the Bill. I am glad to see him representing the party of which he is a member; for a few moments I thought no member of the Country Party would be present in the Chamber to say whether or not that party supported the Bill. The measure is extremely important. As I said in my second-reading speech, and as the honorable members who have contributed to the debate have reiterated, the measure is extremely important as it applies to country bus services. Because of the Board's record, we can be confident that it will implement with care and a great deal of thought the policy given effect to in the legislation.



MELBOURNE HARBOR TRUST (BORROWING POWERS) BILL.

The debate (adjourned from March 5) on the motion of Mr. Porter (M-inister of Public Works) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).-The purpose of thi,s Bill is to increase the borrowing powers of the Melbourne Harbor Trust, and it is not a measure upon which Opposition members need e~tend themselves. Other sim-ilar Bills brought before the House have been readily approved by the Opposition. With the expansion of governmental activities, it is only logical that the various instrumentalities must be given the right to raise more loan money. Whether they can do so or not is another matter. I suppose all that Parliament can do is to provide the legal machinery to enable them to discharge their responsibilities. This

Bill will increase the borrowing powers of the Melbourne Harbor Trust to $50,000,000 from $37,000,000 as at present.

I t is not necessary for the Harbor Trust to borrow to the full limit of its borrowing powers, but the Opposition agrees it would be a waste of time to introduce two Bills to increase the limit of the borrowing powers in stages when the Trust is a responsible instrumentality and will not borrow money that it cannot immediately expend on capital works. All honorable members realize that, although instrumentalities have the right to raise money, it is ridiculous to raise it and not use it. Members of the Opposition believe that the Trust will wisely use money raised under this additional power. The Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works raises its loan funds on the loan market, but the Melbourne Harbor Trust receives a loan allocation from the Government.

In his second-reading speech, the Minister outlined a comprehensive programme of capital works to be undertaken by the Trust. Government instrumentalities, municipalities, and all sensible business organizations finance capital works from loan money because undoubtedly posterity ought to pay for some of the benefits that will accrue from developments in this generation. Of course, the Commonwealth Government has different ideas altogether; it. finances capital works from revenue which results in this State continually complaining that insufficient money is received from Canberra for State projects. The Opposition desires from Canberra not additional loan money but increased tax reimbursements.

This Bill will enable the Trust to carry out the comprehensive works programme. One project listed by the Minister was the completion of the Swanson dock, which is adjacent to Appleton dock. Under previous legislation, the Trust was given permission to use additional land in the

Melbourne Harbor Trust [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Borrowing Powers) Bill. 3625

area for the erection of skeleton buildings to store containers. Containerization will play a large part in the future shipping of cargoes into and out of the port of Melbourne. As trade and commerce increase, obviously more docks must be provided. Although many complaints are made about the dirty old Yarra, very few rivers in the world have been more greatly exploited for docks. Of course, some members will immediately think of the Thames in London, but Melbourne is receiving the utmost advantage from the Yarra river berths and wharves. Therefore, the Opposition does not object to the further expansion of wharf facilities.

Over the years, widening and deepening of the Yarra river has progressed slowly, although the work has accelerated in recent years. Presumably, two factors have affected the rate of progress: First, in past years, there was no immediate necessity for the work; secondly, it was curtailed by lack of finance. The City of Williamstown previously objected to the river being widened because it might have necessitated the famous old ferry operating on a different basis and being manned by a master, a pilot, and a number of deck hands instead of travelling on chains. However, with the advent of the Lower Yarra Crossing, the ferry will be rendered obsolete and no further objection can be taken to the widening of the river. Naturally, any works designed to make the waterway safer receive the commendation of the Opposition.

Another project mentioned by the Minister was the relocation of the oil berths at Yarraville. For years, local members of Parliament have complained that Melbourne is the only city in the world where ships discharge oil at river berths. The world-wide trend is to site oil berths in a recess off the river. A number of attempts have been made to re-site the oil wharves from their present

location in order to free ships from the hazards of navigation and weather conditions which, on numerous occasions, have almost caused disasters. When the project has been completed, it will be possible to protect the community from oil spillages by the use of sorne sort of kapok barrier or a similar contrivance to contain the oil slick inside the dock area. There will then be no danger of oil floating upstream or downstream according to the tide. Furthermore, there will not be the continual hazard of oil seeping under wharves and some person inadvertently throwing down a lighted match and igniting the oil, as occurred when the Euroa burst into flames at the Yarraville wharf.

The relocation of the oil wharves has been continually sought by the Williamstown and Port Melbourne city councils and various Parliamentary members associated with the area. It has been sought by the pilots because the present locations have meant that ships longer than 400 feet are not permitted to move up and down the Yarra after a certain time at night. Money will be well spent on this scheme.

Another project will be the construction of a third berth at the Tasmanian ferry terminal and the provision of berths at North Wharf for the Tasman roll-on roll-off service. Over recent years, the transport of goods froml Melbourne to Devonport has greatly improved because, instead of goods being unloaded from road vehicles, shipped to Tasmania and then reloaded on to road transports, the vehicles are driven on to the ships at Nlelbourne and roll off at Devonport.

The Minister also referred to the lowering of the sewer tunnel at Spotswood, which was constructed in the 1890's with the loss of two or three lives. The construction of the tunnel was quite a feat at that time and this key project was designed to cater for the sewerage needs of a

3626 Melbourne Harbor _ Trust [ASSEMBLY.] (Borrowing Powers) Bill.-

population of 1,000,000. In the intervening years, the city population has increased to more than 2,000,000. I cannot understand how the sewer tunnel can -be lowered: I prefer to believe that another tunnel will be constructed and the existing tunnel demolished. This proposal is overdue_ because ships in excess of a certain draught have been unable to move up the river. There has also been a continual health hazard because of the danger of a ship hitting the tunnel. The Opposition gives the Bill its blessing because the city is growing and it is necessary that the port should grow with it.

Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-I regret that the honorable member for Williamstown did not give the House more of the history of the Yarra river because his long association with Williamstown eminently fits him to speak about the lower reaches of the river. Export industries will receive great benefits from the use of containers to transport goods. An experimental container of dried fruits was recently sent to the United Kingdom. Nowadays, it is possible to move great quantities of cargo only by reducing the handling that is involved in transhipping from time to time. The construction of the new Swanson dock to cope with container-ships will be of tremendous advantage to the whole of Victoria.

Recently, members of the Country Party, along with other honorable members, toured the port on the Trust's launch, The Commissioner. Because the money raised by the Harbor Trust will be spent to great advantage for Victoria, the Country Party supports the Bill. The advent of the Lower Yarra Crossing will also remove some of the congestion which has taken place in that section of the river for many years. We trust that the Bill will have a speedy passage, and we wish the Melbourne Harbor Trust every success in the implementation of its works programme.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).This small Bill provides for an increase in the borrowing powers of the Melbourne Harbor Trust. In his second-reading speech, the Minister, detailed some of the major projects on which the money, if it is raised, will be spent. In to-day's modern transportation era, the Commonwealth provides glamorous facilities for air transport, whilst shipping facilities remain the responsibility of the State. There is still a great need for transport by ship and this will remain for years to come. The port of Melbourne has continued to progress, and I was interested to read in the journal published by the Harbor Trust that the international ports and harbors conference will be held in Melbourne next year. The choice of Melbourne as the venue for this conference indicates how important and vital to shipping the port of Melbourne has become.

I understand that the extra loan moneys which will eventually be made available to the Melbourne Harbor Trust will be used for capital works which in turn will assist the Trust to raise more revenue. The Government will benefit from this because portion of the revenue of the Trust is returned to the Treasury. The expenditure of small sums of money in certain directions would provide slightly better services and would enable particular areas within the jurisdiction of the Trust to be improved. The area between the Dynonroad bridge and Shepherd bridge over the Maribyrnong river near the KingIsland terminal is on the boundary of the Trust's -administration. When the tide goes out, any fair-minded person who inspected the area could imagine himself in the mangrove swamps of South America. The banks of the river are covered with mud and littered with junk of all descriptions, such as the hulls of old boats. There are also many broken-down boat sheds along the banks, most of which are dilapidated and present an unsavoury spectacle. I understand that

Melbourne Harbor Trust [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Borrowing Powers) Bill. 3627

some dredging work is to be undertaken in the area, and if the Trust also did some tidying up mDre shipping wDuld be encDuraged to' CDme up the MaribyrnDng river.

The Dudley-street entrance to' VictDria DDCks cDuld alsO' be examined. This entrance has nDt been used fDr many years and is in a dilapidated state. It wDuld nDt be unreasDnable to' suggest that maintenance wDrk ShDUld be carried DUt. AnDther area in need Df attentiDn is where the DId JDhnsDns Tyne FDundry ship yards used to' be in the vicinity Df Spencer-street bridge. The entrance intO' what is left Df that area is brDken down and the DId-type wDDQen walls are in a dilapidated cDnditiDn. If SDme Df the additiDnal revenue which will be derived by the Trust as a result Df its increased bDrrDwing pDwers was used to' prDvide mDre 'mDdern facilities, I am certain that the Trust cDuld further increase its revenue.

Apart from those trivial matters, the OpPDsitiDn SUPPDrtS the Bill. However, if the areas to which I have referred were tidied up there would be tangible signs Df prDgress and people would become more interested in the port of Melbourne. I am sure that if the Trust embarked Dn a modernizatiDn policy in this regard the port would Dperate with even greater efficiency.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) .-It is obvious from the debate that the duties of the chairman Df the MelbDurne Har.bor Trust are increasing. It is generally agreed that the present chai~man is doing an excellent jDb, and Parliament ShDUld thank him fDr the gDDd work he is dDing, particularly in regard tc containerization. I know from my association with them that Dfficers of the Melbourne HarbDr Trust consider that the salary Df the chairman is inadequate having regard to' the duties he performs. There can be nO' doubt that increased expenditure by the Trust will bring about a greater field of responsibility fDr the chairman and I ask the Minister to' give sympathetic

consideration to the salary being paid to' this gentleman. I thDught this was an apprDpriate time to direct the attentiDn of the House to' this matter.

The motion was agreed to.

The BiB was read a second time and cDmnli tted.

Clause 1 was agreed to'.

Clause:2 (BorrDwing powers) .

Mr. PORTER (Minister Df Public WDrks) .--1 thank the hDnorable members for WilliamstDwn, Mildura, MDDnee PDnds and Brunswick West for their assistance in having this Bill passed. I regard this measure as one of the most important ever passed in the histDry Df the pDrt of MelbDurne.

The honDrable me,mber fDr Williamstown said that he had ascertained frDm me that it was usual fDr the loan funds Dbtained by the Melbourne Harbor Trust to come from the general loan funds of the State, and ,I think this matter needs explaining. The honorable member alsO' asked me, Dutside the Chamber, why recourse was nDt had to se'migovernmental loans which are used by Dther undertakings. In that regard I infDrm the honDrable member that the State's loan prDgramme is determined not by this Government but by the loan council. The GDvernment's IDan prDgramme is divided into two categories, Government loans and semi-governmental loans. It is necessary for semigovernmental authorities, such as the State Eleetricity Com'mission, the Victorian Pipelines Commission and the LDwer Yarra CrDssing AuthDri ty to' borrDw large sums ofmDney in order to undertake develDpmental works. It is competent for the MelbDurne Harbor Trust to be regarded as a semi-governmental authority for this purpose, but at present the Treasury is having difficulty in meeting the loan requirements of the Dther instrumentalities. Therefore, it has been found desirable in the past to use State IDan funds fDr the HarbDr Trust.

3628 Forests (Amendment) LASSEMBL Y.] Bill.

Mr. TURNBULL.-The Harbor Trust contributes to Consolidated Revenue.

Mr. PORTER.-Yes, it makes a substantial contribution to general revenue of this State and the amount contributed appears in the Budget P.apers each year. The honorable member for Williamstown also stated that full advantage has been taken of the facilities of the Yarra river and he spoke about some of the activities of the Harbor Trust. The Melbourne Harbor Trust is recognized as one of the most important port authorities in the world. The honorable member for Moonee Ponds informed the House that the conference of world port authorities was to be held in Melbourne in 1969. I am proud of this, and I think every Victorian should also be proud that Melbourne has been selected as the venue for this conference.

Victoria has indeed been fortunate that over the years several excellent men have been chairmen of the Harbor Trust. The late Mr. Mackenzie had a world-wide reputation as an administrat'Or of a port :authority, and his successor, Mr. Swanson, is held in no less esteem in world opinion. He is the senior vice-president of the World Port Authorities Association, and he will be host and president of the 1969 conference. Honorable members should be proud of this. There can be no doubt that the Melbourne Harbor Trust has played a full, proper and tremendous part in the development of this State, and I am pleased to place on record my appreciation of the work being done by the chairman and the Commissioners of the Trust in the development of modern port facilities. Victoria should be proud of the fact that it has a port authority which leads the world in many facets of port development.



FORESTS (AMENDMENT) BILL. The debate (adjourned from Feb

ruary 28) on the motion of Mr. Meagher (Minister of Forests) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. STONEHAM (Midlands).-This small Bill provides for four unrelated amendments of a machinery character to the Forests Act 1958. It proposes to amend sections 23, 38, 50 and 56. Sub-section (2) of section 23 provides the Minister with an important power to maintain control over the Forests Commission. It states-

No contract made by the Commission the consideration of which exceeds $1,000 or the performance of which may extend over a period exceeding one year shall have any force or effect unless sanctioned by the Minister.

Members of the Opposition are all in favour of effective Ministerial control, but we were informed by the Minister that the equivalent of $1,000 in 1918, when this provision was first made, would be $3,350 to-day. The proposed amendment merely raises the amount to $3,000. It seems to us that the Government is being miserly in its attitude to the Forests Commission. I point out that the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission can enter into contracts t'O the value of $10,000 without Ministerial approval. Therefore, it would seem that a more reasonable figure than $3,000 could be fixed in relation to the Forests Commissi'On.

The second amendment is necessitated by an oversight when some time ago the Board of Land and Works was abolished, in unlamented fashion, and automatic amendments then transferred the power of the Board of Land and Works to the Minister of Public Works. Strange as it may seem, the Forests Act empowers the Minister of Public Works to acquire land for forest purposes, this power having previously been held by the Board of Land and Works. It is only natural that this power should reside in the Minister of Forests. A further

Forests (Amendment) [13 MARCH, 1968.] Bill. 3629

prOVISIon that the Minister may dedicate for forest purposes the land so acquired meets with the approval of the Opposition.

The third amendment relates to section 50 of the Act which deals with the keeping of a special trust fund for the repayment of loans made for the provision of services. It is desired to widen the purposes for which the trust funds collected may be used. I wish to direct to the attention of those honorable members who have not already read it a report of the Committee of Public Accounts issued in November last year on the Forestry Fund. It clearly discloses the most unsatisfactory financial arrangements that have obtained in the past in respect of the activities of the Forests Commission. The committee records that, while investigating another matter, it discovered-. . . that the Forests Commission was supplementing its Vote items with money from its Forestry Fund. ... during the year 1966-67 Vote items were supplemented by a total of $459,701 from the Forestry Fund and Loan Fund expenditure was -supplemented by $226,551

The feature of supplementation from the Forestry Fund which your Committee found disturbing was that the manner in which the Fund is being used is not being disclosed adequately to Parliament. There is no reference in the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure to supplementation, nor does the Report of the Auditor-General indicate detailed expenditure from the Fund.

A reference on page 6 of the committee's report states-

Your Committee are not satisfied with the manner in which the Forestry Fund is used to supplement Vote and Loan expenditure without adequate disclosure to Parliament of the details of such supplementation. Your Committee believe, as a matter of principle, that Parliament should be informed of disbursement from all funds established by legislation.

The report further states-It is noticeable that while Vote expenditure

has remained as a fairly constant percentage of annual expenditure, the percentage spent from the Fund has been increasing and that from Loan has been decreasing.

Tha t means that the Treasury, by denying adequate funds to the Forests Commission, has forced the

Commission to divert money from the Forestry Fund for purposes that were not originally intended. I commend this report to honorable members because it clearly sets out certain alternatives that might be adopted by the Government to put the matter on a satisfactory basis in the future.

I reiterate what I have often said previously when speaking to forest loan application Bills, that the Commission has been treated as a Cinderella authority of this State. It is time that proper financial arrangements were made to enable the Commission to fulfil its important tasks. To the extent that the third amendment will, in respect of the particular trust fund referred to in section 50, improve the position, members of the Opposition commend the amendment.

The final amendment relates to section 56 of the Forests Act. If the amendment is adopted, the section will then read-

Subject to regulations under this Act the lessee of any land under this Act or any corresponding previous enactment may on the recommendation of the Commission and with the consent in writing of the Minister assign sublet: or transfer his right title and interest in the whole or -any part of the land held by him under his lease.

Members of the Opposition have always adopted a zealous attitude in relation to conditions governing leases granted by the Forests Commission, but in view of the safeguards contained in section 56, that the granting of leases must be on the recommendation of the Commission and with the consent in writing of the Minister, we believe we can agree to this amendment. Consequently, members of the Opposition have no desire to delay the passage of the Bill.

Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).-I wish I could make a like statement on behalf of members of the Country Party, who have always been assiduous in their study of the requirements of the forests of this State. Although we are eager to

3630 Forests (Amendment) [ASSEMBLY.] Bill.

help the Forests Commission, if it genuinely deserves assistance, we found inexplicable the haste of the Minister to proceed when he was roundly taken to task by the honorable member for Northcote. When the Minister was explaining the Bill he was quickly cut down to size by the honorable member for Northcote and had to apologize to the House. I t is easy to see why the Minister wished to rush this Bill through and put up such a meagre effort. The reason is that the honorable gentleman does not want any more spotlight than he can help on the thoroughly unsatisfactory state of his Department.

The honorable member for Midlands mentioned the report of the Committee of Public Accounts on the Forestry Fund. What is contained in this report makes members of the Country Party unwilling to pile confusion upon confusion until the whole " shop" of the Forests Commission is put in order. The statements contained in the report are very damaging, coming on top of a previous report on the Newport Seasoning Works. All honorable members recall how unsatisfactory that situation was and how the Government was castigated by members of the committee. Here, once again, is a nasty stink arising in connexion with the Forests Commission. The people of Victoria have long memories. Unlike the honorable member for Midlands, members of the Country Party are not prepared to give this Bill the "green light" until we learn not only a lot more about what is behind this cc stalking wooden horse of Troy" but also when the Government is going to face up fairly and squarely to putting the Forests Commission in order so that it will not have a hybrid status, as referred to by the Committee of Public Accounts-neither fish, flesh, fowl nor red herring. The Commission is not a Government Department.

If the Government had the welfare of Victoria at heart, it would not introduce a Bill such as this-good

Mr. Mitchell.

though it may be in parts. The Government must grasp the nettle, so to speak, and introduce new legislation which will clarify the position of the Forests Commission once and for all and will not require this sort of temporary patching up of a bad state of affairs. As the honorable member for Midlands pointed out, the investigation by the Committee of Public Accounts revealed a disturbing situation The committee's report stated-

The feature of supplementation from the Forestry Fund which your Committee found disturbing was that the manner in which the Fund is being used is not being disclosed adequately to Parliament.

I want to· be informed why some action has not been taken. If this committee found the position disturbing-I should say that was the masterly understatement of all time -why has not the Minister risen to the challenge? There is a good old smell about this-a well known Liberal Party political pastime of cc tickling the peter"; something dirty is going on with the finances of this State.

On many occasions, I and other members of my party have asked for further details when loan application Bills have been before the House. We have asked to be informed for what particular purpose money was required under those measures, but we have been treated in a cavalier fashion. The Government has adopted the attitude that it need not tell the people of Victoria why it requires money and that the people are mugs. The people are not mugs, and at long last they are seeing through the Government, as they saw through its machinations to introduce a police State. The people saw exactly what this Government is composed of. It is rotten from top to bottom, and this Bill is an indication of that condition.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. L. S. Reid).-Order! I ask the honorable member to relate his remarks to the Bill. .


Mr. MITCHELL.-I was reading from the report of the Committee of Public Accounts. With your permission, Sir, I shall continue to do so. The report further states-

There is no reference in the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure to supplementation nor does the report of the Auditor-General indicate detailed expenditure from the Fund. The Annual Report of the Forests Commission shows expenditure from a combined r~~enue of "Forestry Fund and Revenue ... What does that mean? It indicates an unsatisfactory state of affairs similar to that which existed when the press was excluded from the inquiry into the Newport Seasoning Works. Again, the faceless men of this Government, the brown-shirt faceless men of the Liberal Party--

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Forests) .-In order to obtain some enlightenment, I wish to raise a point of order. The honorable member for Benambra has informed the House that he is, perforce, reading his speech. I should like him to state in which section of the report his statements occur-particularly the "brown-shirt" reference.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. L. S. Reid).-I should be pleased if the honorable member for Benambra would indicate what part of the report contains those remarks.

Mr. WHEELER (Essendon).-On a point of explanation, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I should like to inform the House, in connexion with the honorable member's reference to "brownshirt faceless men ", that two members of the Country Party are members of the Committee of Public Accounts. Does the honorable member for Benambra include them in his reference to brown-shirt faceless people?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER.-I have asked the honorable member to indicate that part of the report which contains that expression.

Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).-I am reading from page 1 of the report of the Committee of Public Accounts, and it indicates that state of affairs.

Paragraph 12 of the report is also a damning indictment of the Government. In a few pungent words, the honorable member for Midlands made reference to it. In considering a Bill such as this, it is important that the whole background of the matter should be understood for, as is well known, nlembers of the Country Party are most conscientious.

Paragraph 12 of the report states :-

Your Committee are not satisfied with the manner in which the Forestry Fund is used to supplement Vote and Loan exenditure ...

I emphasize those words-without adequate disclosure to Parliament of the details of such supplementation.

This Government has a lot to hide, but it cannot hide it for long. It is all coming out here. The Country Party is interested in this Bill and wishes to know exactly what lies behind it, why the whole subject is not being tackled, and why there is only a certain amount of patchwork being done here and there.

Paragraph 15 of the report submitted by the Committee of Public Accounts contains another indictment of the Government. It reads-

Your Committee beleive that some of the effects of any decreased revenue could perhaps be o1fset by better management and greater use of the expert skills available to the CommiSSIon.

I should like the Minister, when he is discussing clause 2 in Committee, to inform honorable members why this recommendation has not been put into effect. Why should the Government raise more money if savings could be made by greater efficiency in the Department? That was made very clear ten or twelve years ago in connexiori with the Newport Seasoning Works. It is difficult to request this House to approve more of the people's money for an organization which is inefficient, and I again ask the Government to put the whole house of the Forests Commission in order. The Country Party is anxious to do what it can concerning forests,


but it is not happy with the reasons given for all of the proposals contained in the Bill, nor about the whole background of the matter.

.I~ his second-reading speech, the MInIster referred to the setting aside of the whole or any portion of reserved forest as forest park. I do not know what a forest park is, and I ask the Minister to elucidate this reference. The whole question of the use of the alpine regions of Victoria is in the spotlight at the moment. There are whispers and rumours of a move to lock up the whole of the Alps under one commercial thumb. What is meant by a forest park? How does it affect the harvesting of the forests; how does it affect any grazing; and exactly what will be the effect on shires? What is the position of the shires of Bright, or Mansfield, or Towong? What is m'eant by "forest park, scenic reserve, alpine reserve, and so on "?-and particularly what is meant by "and so on"? Members of this House are entitled to much less cavalier treatment than receiving explanations of this nature. The attitude of the Government is getting beyond a joke.

.I~ his second-reading speech, the MInIster referred to alpine reserves becoming self-supporting, but I cannot see how that is possible. What are the shires to do with regard to rates? What will happen to the alpine resorts, villages, ski runs, and so on? This is a matter in which the Country Party is vitally interested, because the establishment of alpine villages has been one of the few decentralization moves that we have seen for some time. Millions of dollars are locked up in this venture, and this legislation could be detrimental to it. I ask the Minister to clarify the whole matter.


and committed. Clause 1 was agreed to. Clause 2 (Amendment of No.

6254, section 23 (2) ). Mr. Mitchell.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Forests) .-The first criticism of the honorable member for Midlands, if it could be called a criticism, was that the Government was being miserly in extending the powers of the Forests Commission of Victoria to make determinations to a consideration of only $3,000. At the same time, the honorable member said that there should be tight Ministerial control over the expenditure of funds. I took the same view when comparing the operation of the Forests Commission with that of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission. I felt that although the Forests Commission suffered an obvious disability in that the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission could enter into a contract not exceeding $10,000, it was desirable that I should exercise tighter control, and that $3,000 was an adequate amount at this stage.

The honorable member for Midlands and the honorable member for Benambra referred to the report from the Committee of Public Accounts upon the Forestry Fund. The honorable member for Midlands dealt with it in a much more responsible fashion than did the honorable member for Benambra. He referred to the section of the report which pointed out that no adequate disclosure had been made to Parliament of the extent to which the Forestry Fund was used to supplement loan funds; and, unlike the honorable member for Benambra, he asked me to advise him of what had been done and was content to leave the matter there. The following action has been taken: -Instructions have been given that, in future, adequate disclosure is to be made. This action required no histrionics on my part in this Chamber, no legislation, and no screams of abuse of the Forests Commission or anyone else. It was a simple administrative act which I promptly took after reading the report.

The honorable member for Benambra made reference to brown-shirted, faceless people, and I point out that


I happen to be one of them. He was so conscientious in his Country Party approach to the matter that he has forgotten the details of that investigation. I was a member of the Committee of Public Accounts at the time of the investigation of the Newport Seasoning Works. The members of the committee were not faceless by any means, nor were we fascists or brown-shirted in our approach. The report that was submitted on the seasoning works, was promptly acted upon by the Government, and the problem was disposed of. Of course, the honorable member for Benambra did not hesitate to scream abuse at the Government for what happened at the seasoning works over a long period, beginning during the term of the late Sir Albert Dunstan as Premier. The investigations by the Committee of Public Accounts disclosed that the genesis of the trouble arose from an instruction by Sir Albert Dunstan that the works were to continue in business so long as they did not show a loss. The committee disclosed the doubtful means by which a loss was not shown.

The honorable member for Benambra is always theatrical in his approach and usually extreme in his utterances. Quite inadvertently, the honorable member paid me the sort of compliment which he suggested I was paying the honorable member for Midlands, because he suggested that during the twelve months that I have held the portfolio of Forests, I was capable and should have been prepared to solve all the problems to which he has referred in this House over the past twenty years. I have no doubt that without his assistance I shall be able to get on with the job much more effectively.

In suggesting a way of overcoming the financial difficulties of the Commission, the honorable member trotted out that old phrase, "Let's have more efficiency and save more money". It is easy to say that, but he should be aware that there are many competent officers in the Commission

who understand forestry and work extremely hard to ensure that the Commission spends its money to the best advantage. It has not been the fault of those officers that, in recent years, funds have been insufficient to enable them to do the jobs they wish to do, nor have they had any ulterior motive in the use of available funds. I agree that the purposes to which the money was put should have been disclosed to Parliarnent. However, the lesson has been learned and in future they will be disclosed.

Mr. STONEHAM.-Will they be disclosed in the annual report of the Commission?

Mr. MEAGHER.-Yes, in the accounts in the annual report. I leave to his own limitations the honorable member for Benambra's inability to understand what is meant by forest park, alpine reserve and scenic reserve. I believe most honorable members understand the terms. He should know that the Forests Commission maintains a number of these reserves for the use of the general public. They are not associated with timber getting, although they are part of reserved forest areas. The amendment contained in clause 4 will merely ensure that money earned by the reserves from parking fees or other sources will be used for the benefit of the reserves to provide a better service to the public. A problem arose because the Act limited the extent of the repayment of loan moneys only, and when other moneys were spent on improvements to reserves, income earned by the improvements could not be spent on further works, but had to go into loan funds. The amendment will overcome the problem which has arisen and will make the administration easier and more efficient. I do not accept the strictures of the honorable :member for Benambra as to either my conduct or the conduct of the Forests Commission. I believe the Commission is efficient and that it has done a first-class job for this State.


Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).-In givmg his explanation, the Minister was like a man sitting on a barbed wire fence-he merely touched a point here and there. He may not be a skier, but he skated over thin ice. With all due respect to the honorable gentleman, he failed to clarify the situation. The report of the Committee of Public Accounts on the Newport Seasoning Works was not implemented. The report contained piercing criticisms of the whole structure of State finance and its bearing upon the Forests Commission.

Mr. M.EAGHER (Minister of Forests) .-Mr. Acting Chairman, I rise to a point of order. I am at a loss to find any reference in this Bill to the seasoning works at Newport. The honorable member for Benambra is referring to a report that was made thirteen years ago, and that report is completely irrelevant to this Bill.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN (Mr. Stokes).-I uphold the point of order, and I ask the honorable member for Benambra to refrain from referring to that subject, and to speak on clause 2.

Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).This is a report of another Committee of Public Accounts and it is hard to keep one report separate from the other. I can imagine how the Minister does not want to hear about the earlier report. The Minister's explanation of the financial arrangements of the Forests Commission, particularly in view of the report and the background against which this Committee must consider this Bill, has not been satisfactory. It is not possible to assess the measure unless one has knowledge of the whole financial back-drop of the finances of the Forests Commission and the State. The Minister may skate over the question, but the Committee of Public Accounts made a very piercing criticism of the Commission. The Minister more or less shrugs off that criticism. It is good to hear that in the future Parliament will be paid the

compliment of receiving more details about how money is spent by the Commission. Honorable members will have to be content with the thought that it is better late than never. These problems should be solved.

The report of the committee refers to the hybrid status of the Commission. Parliament should be very loath to pass a Bill of this nature when it is not informed of the fundamental structure of the organization to which, as a responsible legislature, it is asked to grant money. The Minister did not mention that aspect, but perhaps he might refer to this subject later. The honorable gentleman poured out the white-wash. Of course, there are many fine officers in the Forests Commission.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN.-I remind the honorable member for Benambra that clause 2 deals with the power to let a contract, and I suggest that he is getting away from that subject.

Mr. MITCHELL.-The report of the Committee of Public Accounts contains this indicting paragraph-

Your Committee believe that some of the effects of any decreased revenue could perhaps be offset by better management. The matter of management relates to the question of contracts. Honorable members want to be satisfied that contracts are managed properly, and the Minister has not satisfied honorable members on this point.

The Minister said that I ought to know what is meant by forest park, alpine reserve, and scenic reserve, but I would not be asking for a definition of those terms if I knew what they meant.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN.-Order! Clause 2 deals with the power to let a contract. The honorable member is departing from that subject and speaking on general matters.

Mr. MITCHELL.-I am sorry, Mr. Acting Chairman, but are these matters not tied up with contracts? One should ask whether there is a


contract or lease for forest parks, and whether there is a form of contract in regard to the parking fees mentioned by the Minister. These are financial dealings by the Commission, and honorable members are genuinely worried about them. Having heard that members of the Country Party hold genuine doubts about the making of these contracts, the Minister should explain the matter more fully to the Committee.

The clause was agreed to, as was clause 3.

Clause 4 (Special trust fund for repayment of loans, providing services and carrying out, maintaining and extending works).

Mr. MITCHELL (Benambfla).-I know as much as any other person in the community about alpine activities, and I am at a loss to understand what was meant by the Minister of Forests when he said in his secondreading speech that sub-section (6) of section 50 of the Forests Act-. . . makes provision for the setting aside of the whole or any portion of a reserved forest as a forest park, scenic reserve, alpine reserve and so on.

What is included in the expression Ie and so on"? This amending legislation will affect people's pockets, and the honorable gentleman should remove all doubt as to the meaning of the provision.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Forests) .-1 accept the assurance of the honorable member for Benambra that he knows as much as any other person in the community about alpine activities. Perhaps that is rather a reflection on the acumen of the community. In the context of my secondreading speech I used the expression-a reserved forest as a forest park, scenic reserve, alpine reserve and so on.

My meaning should have been sufficiently clear. If the honorable member for Benambra had taken the trouble to read section 15 of the Forests Act, he would have seen the matter spelled out as to the different types of property and land. What is

in the Act is of more importance than the expressions I used to describe what are recreational areas maintained by the Commission for the community.

Parking fees are collected from motorists in some of the alpine reserves beloved of the honorable member. Some of those fees go into the revenue of the Forests Commission. The amendment proposed by this Bill seeks to' ensure that all revenues, regardless of where they come from, are used fOor the development of the recreational areas for the community. It is not possible for me to put the matter in any simpler language; if it were possible I would be delighted to do so for the honorable member for Benambra.

The clause was agreed to. Clause 5 (Amendment of No. 6254

s. 56.). Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).-The

Minister of Forests partially answered my question on the previous clause, but I should like a further explanation of this provision.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Forests) .-It is quite simple. Section 56 states-

Subject to regulations under this Act the lessee of any land under this Act or any corresponding previous enactment may on the recommendation of the Commission and with the consent in writing of the Minister assign the whole or any part of any land held by him under his lease.

It further states-Or sublet such land or transfer his right

title and interest therein. Because the second part is separate from the first part, the Crown Solicitor has said that, on a purely legalistic interpretation, if a person wants to sublet or transfer his title or interest therein, he can do it only for the whole of the land and not for a portion of it. The amendment proposes to clear up any doubt and to make it clea.r that, with the consent of the Commission and the Minister in writing, the lessee may assign, sublet or tra.nsfer his right, title and interest to the whole or part of the

3636 Evidence LASSEMBLY.] (Attestations) Bill.

land. It is merely a clarification of the position following a legal opinion obtained from the Crown Solicitor.

Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).-I thank the Minister for at long last answering one of my questions fully. Would this apply to the case of the person leasing a forest area for a ski chalet?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Forests) .-It applies to any lease at all.

The clause was agreed to. The Bill was reported to the House

without amendment, and passed through its remaining stages.


CEMETERIES (EXHUMATION LICENCES) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Council and, on the motion of Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry) , was read a first time.

SHEARERS ACCOMMODATION (AMENDMENT) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Council and, on the motion of Sir WILLIAM McDONALD (Minister of Lands), was read a first time.

EVIDENCE (ATTESTATIONS) BILL.

The debate (adjourned from March 5) on the motion of Mr. G. O. Reid (Attorney-General) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr.' TURNBULL (Brunswick West) .-On the face of it, this short Bill may appear unimportant, but, particularly because of what was said during a recent debate, I want to make some comments. Clause 2 provides-

After section 126 of the Principal Act there shall be inserted the following section :-

"126A. The signature of a commissioner or person authorized by or under this Act to take affidavits when appearing in any jurat or attestation to an affidavit shall be prima jacie evidence that the affidavit was duly sworn or taken (as the case requires) before the commissioner or person purporting to have attested the affidavit and on the day and in the place attested to ...

The commissioner referred to, I take it, is a commissioner for taking affidavits in the Supreme Court.

Mr. G. O. REID.-Or a person so authorized.

Mr. TURNBULL.-A commissioner of the Supreme Court for taking affidavits is an important person; only the most experienced and reliable legal practitioners are appointed as commissioners. I believe the AttorneyGeneral is a commissioner of the Supreme Court for taking affidavits. In explaining the Bill the honorable gen tleman said-

It was necessary upon the trial for the Crown to prove that the accused person took his oath as to the truth and correctness of the document and that he held a Bible whilst reciting the appropriate words.

A person takes an oath on the Bible; there is nothing extraordinary about that.

Mr. G. O. REID.-That is if he is a Christian.

Mr. TURNBULL.-That is so. The Minister further stated-

To prove this fact the commissioner was called to give evidence,

The procedure would be to ask the commissioner whether on a certain day the accused person took his oath as to the truth and correctness of the document. On this occasion, apparently, under cross-examination the commissioner was unable to recall clearly whether or not the accused actually had a Bible in his hand at the relevant time. Obviously, the case against the accused was not proven beyond reasonable doubt, the jury disagreed and a new trial was ordered.

Mr. G. O. REID.-The case was proved at the second trial.

Mr. TURNBULL.-An important person such as a commissioner for taking affidavits should keep a d~ary or record of dates and other relevant facts when he takes affidavits. If a commissioner or other authorized person took sufficient affidavits he would earn a pretty handsome sum by the end of the day.

Evidence [13 MARCH, 1968.] (Attestations) Bill. 3637

Mr. G. O. REID.-A justice of the peace is not paid for taking affidavits.

Mr. TURNBULL.-I am referring to a commissioner for taking affidavits. The taking of an oath is an extremely important process. Apparently, in the past, a commissioner for taking affidavits has not kept any record of his actions. The Crown is becoming lazy, and it is now proposed that if a person's signature appears on an affidavit that shall be prima facie evidence of the fact that the affidavit was duly sworn. If this trend continues, a person will be convicted not on viva voce evidence but on prima facie evidence. In a recent measure before this House there appeared a reference to an averment being taken as prima facie evidence. This procedure is getting down to the basis of the Commonwealth taxation law.

Mr. G. O. REID.-That has nothing to do with this Bill.

Mr. TURNBULL.-It supports my argument that if a person alleges a criminal or quasi-criminal offence against another person, he should be required to prove his case. What could be more simple than proving that an accused person held a Bible in his 'hand when he took an oath?

Mr. PORTER.-Do you want three people to be present when an affidavit is sworn?

Mr. TURNBULL.-A justice of the peace is a dignified and well-behaved person. I have no doubt that the Attorney-General would furnish him with a ruled notebook, with appropriate headings, and a pencil.

Mr. G. O. REID.-How would that be proof?

Mr. TURNBULL.-A witness may refer to notes taken at the time to refresh his memory. If a commissioner made a note to the effect that a particular person was duly sworn with a Bible in his hand, in any subsequent proceedings this would be prima facie evidence of the fact that the affidavit was duly sworn. If the method proposed is extended to its logical conclusion, the Crown will not need to call any witnesses. What hope have men like Mr. Frank Galbally and other defence counsel of obtaining an acquittal if the whole case against the accused is proved by statutory prima facie evidence? Even a prisoner is entitled to a fair go. Having heard some of the remarks in this Chamber recently, I am beginning to think that the Liberal Party does not believe in this principle.


The Bill was read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages.

Mr. TURNBULL.-The interjection JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE t th t th G t b 1· (M.M.B.W.) BILL. sugges s a e overnmen' e leves

a crime should be proved by prima Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public facie evidence. Works).-I move-

Mr. PORTER.-I have taken many declarations without a third person being present.

Mr. TURNBULL.-Even a rabbit is given a sporting chance. I should think that a commissioner for taking affidavits, who is paid a substantial fee for his day's work, could afford to buy a book and a pencil in which to keep a record.

Mr. G. O. REID.-A justice of the peace is not paid for this work.

Session 1968.-136.

That ,this Bill be now read a second time.

This measure is similar to the several Bills which have been considered by this Parliament recently in that it constitutes a committee consisting of members of the Legislative Council and of this House. It provides that six members of the committee shall be members of this House and two shall be members of another place. As it is expected that the committee will deal with this 'matter with the utmost expedition, no provision has

3638 Cheltenham Cemeiery [ASSEMBLY.} Lands Exchange Bill.

been made for the payment of attendance fees to members, but members will be entitled to travelling expenses necessarily incurred by them in performing their functions;

The essence of the Bill is to be found in ,clause 4, whioh sets out the functions of the committee. In short, the committee is being asked to consider whether the Melbourne and Metropolit'an Board of Works is constituted in the best way to achieve its purpose. In particular, the committee is asked to consider the constitution of the Board in the light of the need to correlate its forward planning with the financial resources available to it, and to consider whether the functions presently given to the Board should be distributed in some different manner.

I am sure that all honorable members wHI agree that these are questions to which this Parliament ·and the Government must give urgent and serious consideratioth so that, if necessary, proper steps can be taken to improve governmental 'activities which are currently undertaken by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, in the vital fields of water, sewerage, drainage, town planning, roads, foreshore protection and river improvement in the metropolitan area. I commend the Bill to the House.

o.n the motion of Mr. WILKES (Northcote), the debate was adjourned.


CHELTENHAM CEMETERY LANDS EXCHANGE BILL.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works).-I move-

That this. Bill be now read a second time. This small measure is submitted for the consideration of honorable members, with a view to obtaining P·arliamentary authority to effect an exchange of lands at Cheltenham, in the parish of Moorabbin, whereby

an area of just on three-quarters' of an ·acre of freehold land will be transferred and surrendered to Her ,Majesty the Queen for addition to the new Cheltenham Cemetery and, .in exchange, a Crown grant in fee simple wHI be issued in respect of a practically equal area of Crown land which is at present permanently reserved as a site for a cemetery.

The privately-owned land referred to is held by the Sun Electric Company Propriet'ary. Limited in freehold certificate of title volume 4864, folium 972681, registered in the Office of Titles, and is indicated by cross-hatching on plan "B" in the schedule to the Bill. It contains an area of two roods and thirty-nine perches, having a frontage of 100 feet to the west side of Reserve-road with a depth of 324 feet, 'and is located about midway between Talinga and W'angara roads, at Cheltenham, in the City of Sandringham.

The Crown land at Cheltenham, perm1anently reserved as a site for a cemetery after purchase from private owners contains a total area of 41 acres 2 roods 31 perches comprised as follows:-

21 acres 3 roods 28 perches permanently reserved as a site for a cemetery by Order in CouncH of 28th April, 1936, published in the Government Gazette of 6th May, 1936, page 1092:

16 acres 2 roods 6 perches, similarly reserved by Order in Council of 26th May, 1953, published in the Government Gazette of 5th June, 1953, page 2741 ; 'and

3 acres 37 perches also permanently reserved by Order

. in Council of 28th March, 1961, published in the Government Gazette of 7th April, 1961, page 1102.

But for the existence of the area of about three-quarters of an acre of freehold land referred to previously, these three sections of reserve would combine to form a rectangular area

Ch~ltenham Cemetery [13 MARCH, 196~.] ~ands Exchange' Bjll. 363~

with a frontage of 15 chains to the west side of Reserve-road and 28 chains along both Talinga-road and W'angara-road. For the information of honorable members I point out that, in the descriptions of the reservations for a cemetery published in the Government Gazette, Talinga-road is referred to as Spring-street and Wangara-road as Holloway-road or street.

From the point of view of cemetery design and efficient operation, it was considered most desirable that the freehold area should become part of the reserve, particularly as the northern boundary adjoins the main entrance to the new lawn section of the cemetery. The trustees of the cemetery therefore conducted negotiations with the owner of the freehold, and eventually came to a mutually acceptable arrangement whereby the Sun Electric Company would be prepared to exchange its block of land for a similar area at the corner of Talinga-road and Reserve-road. The relative positions of the two sites are indicated on plan Ie B " in the schedule to the Bill.

From inspection of the two areas by officers . of the Commission of Public Hea.Jth, the proposed exchange was considered reasonable and to be to the advantage of the cemetery trustees. An additional report on the proposal, furnished by the district surveyor of the Lands Department, showed that at the time of his inspection, the freehold site contained a disused weatherboard cottage and that the land was m'ainly grassed. Some tea-tree scrub existed and the land was being used as a car park by workers at adJacent factories.

The land proposed to be excised from the cemetery reserve and granted to the Sun Electric Company is flat sandy land, grassed and with some planted shrubs around the road boundaries. It is enclosed within the cemetery fences except for a small section in

the south-east corner at the junction of Talinga-road and Reserve-road which, it is proposed, will be retained as road.

Consequent on these reports, it was the departmental view that exchange ()n the basis of equality of values would not be unreasonable, and when the comments of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works and the Sandringham City Council were sought neither of those bodies offered any objection to the proposed exchange. The area of 3 roods proposed to be excised from the cemetery site forms part of the section of 3 acres and 37 perches of reserve to which the Order in Council of 28th March, 1961, relates. It has an effective frontage of about 130 feet to Talinga-road with a depth of about 250 feet along Reserve-road. The area of 2 roods and 39 perches proposed for transfer to the Crown for addition to the cemetery has a frontage of 100 feet to Reserveroad, with a depth of 324 feet, and is bounded on the other three sides by the cemetery. The section permanently reserved by Order in Council of 26th l\lay, 1953, abuts the north and west sides of the freehold, and that part of the reserve permanently reserved by Order in Council of 28th March, 1961, abuts the southern side.

The Bill is a very simple one of two clauses, the first of which cites the short title. The other clause provides first that, on completion of the transfer and surrender to Her Majesty the Queen of the area of 2 roods 39 perches of freehold land to which certificate of title volume 4864 folium 472681 relates, the area will become unalienated Crown land to be r~served as cemetery under the provisions of section 14 of the Land Act; secondly, that the area of 3 roods indicated on plan "A" of the schedule to the Bill is excised from the section of the cemetery permanently reserved by Order in Council of 28th March, 1961; and, thirdly~ that a CroV\TD. grant in fee-simple in

3640 Cheltenham Cemetery [ASSEMBLY.] Lands Exchange Bill.

respect of the area of 3 roods indica ted on plan "B" in the schedule may be issued to the Sun Electric Company Proprietary Limited.

It will be noted from the plans in the schedule that, although the area proposed to be excised from the cemetery reserve and that proposed to be granted to the Sun Electric Company are. both set out as being 3 roods, the description in plan " A " varies slightly from that in plan " B ". This has been brought about by provision having been made in survey for a splayed corner of 10 feet, at the south-east angle, which will be shown as road abuttal on the Crown grant. The area of the splayed corner contains 50 square feet, or less than two-tenths of a perch, and is so small in relation to the total area of the proposed Crown grant that both areas still compute mathematically as 3 roods.

For the benefit of honorable members who are not familiar with the area concerned, I point out that Reserve-road is a main road between Sandringham and Moorabbin. It is the main frontage to the cemetery reserve. For some considerable time the area to the west of Reserve-road has been used by the cem.etery trust, and areas available to the trust for future development as lawn cemetery are divided by the area owned by the Sun Electric Company Proprietary Limited. The trustees of the cemetery, the local council and the Sun Electric Company have all agreed that this is a reasonable exchange of land which is of similar value. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. WILKES (Northcote), the debate was adjourned.

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-1 move-

That the debate be adjourned until to-morrow.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).I can appreciate the Government's attempts to bolster up the lamentable Notice Paper. The Minister has granted the Opposition less than one

week's adjournment of this debate, and, while every honorable member agrees with the Minister that this is a simple Bill, I remind the honorable gentleman that the Government and the Department have had many weeks in which to prepare this measure and that there are certain facts which the Opposition desires to check. Is the Minister prepared to give the Opposition an undertaking that if it is not in a position to proceed on Tuesday next he will grant an extension of the adjournment?

Mr. PORTER (Minister of Public Works) .-As the honorable member has said, this is a simple Bill.

Mr. WILTON.-I said that you said it was a simple Bill.

Mr. PORTER.-It is a very simple Bill, and I think I have explained it in sufficient detail to enable any honorable member to follow it. I have referred to reports which have been obtained from the offices of the Commission of Public Health.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-The Minister will please answer the question before the House.

Mr. PORTER.-I wish to assist the honorable member for Broadmeadows, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER.-There may not be debate at this stage.

Mr. PORTER.-I am explaining how I can help him. I am prepared to make reports from the Lands Department and the Commission of Public Health available to the Opposition, and I believe that with this information, and if it wanted to, the Opposition could be ready to resume the debate on Tuesday next. In any case, I am prepared to give the Opposition my assurance that I shall co-operate with it.

The motion was agreed to. RACING (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).-

I move-. That this Bill be now read a second time.

The principal purposes of this Bill are, first, to establish a racecourse development fund which will be used

Racing (Amendment) [13 MARCH, 1968.] Bill. 3641·

to refinance the existing and future liabilities of race clubs in respect of capital expenditure, to finance the construction of training tracks either on eXIsting racecourses or elsewhere with the approval of the Treasurer and to assist trainers in transferring to new training tracks or within their vicinity; secondly to increase by 1 per cent. the commission now deductible from the investments on the daily double on horse races. The present commission deducted is 13 per cent. and the proposal is to increase the deduction to 14 per cent.; thirdly, to reconstitute the Racecourses Licences Board in respect of its powers relating to horse racing; fourthly, to abolish the present Country Racing Clubs' Fund Committee and vest its functions in the Racecourses Licences Board; fifthly, to authorize the holding of four midweek race meetings at Sandown on an experimental basis for the year 1968-69; sixthly, to provide that, in the event of a disagreement between the contributing clubs and other bodies authorized to reach agreement on the distribution of the Totalizator Agency Board profits, the Chief Secretary shall resolve the matter.

Many honorable members will be aware that, in September last, the committee of the Victoria Racing Club published a "Report on the Structure of Racing in Victoria". The report expressed grave concern that, notwithstanding the distribution of moneys from the Totalizator Agency Board, certain clubs, particularly the Victoria Racing Club and the Victoria Amateur Turf Club, which incorporates the Melbourne Racing Club, were experiencing financial difficulties and that Victoria was in danger of losing its enviable reputation as the leading racing State in Australia.

The report em'phasized the deteriorating financial position of these two clubs and it 'made certain proposals and recom'mendations, which I do not propose to canvass here. I am sure that many honorable members have

read the rather dismal report of the Victoria Racing Club. It is sufficient to say that, arising out of the report, the Government gave close attention to the finances of racing clubs generally. It is apparent that, after decades of endeavouring to conduct racing on a shoe string, with the advent of new funds frorn the Totalizator Agency Board distribution, the majority of clubs undertook course improvements which had been delayed for years and incurred la.rge sums by way of capital expenditure. Unquestionably, this has given racecourses in Victoria a new look, but it has also meant that much of the moneys from the Totalizator Agency Board have to be appropriated each year for the liquidation of bank overdrafts and so on. Naturally, there are critics who ask, "Just where are the Totalizator Agency Board moneys going?" Perhaps they Jnight be best answered by quoting figures from the Victoria Racing Club report.

In 1959··60, the Victoria Racing Club revenue was $1,044,702. There was no Totalizator Agency Board distribution in that year. In 1966-67, the revenue, excluding Totalizator Agency Board moneys, was $1,092,577, that is the revenue of the Victoria Racing Club was mainly static.

Mr. WILKES'-It relied on the Totalizator Agency Board.

Mr. RYLAH.-It relied on the Totalizator Agency Board for additional funds to enable improvements to be made and to provide additional stakes. The Totalizator Agency Board distribution to the Victoria Racing Club in 1966-67 was $469,041. Of this, the sum of $302,000 was appropriated to stake money and the increase in the racecourse expenditure, racecourse maintenance, depreciation, and so on, and bank interest more than absorbed the remainder. In the figures which I have given, there is no provision for repayment of moneys ~orrowed to effect capital improvements.

3642 Racing. (Amendment) [ASSEMBL Y.] Bill,

In many ways, the Victoria Racing Club story is typical of all race clubs. They have borrowed moneys to effect capital improvements which were not only long overdue but needed in the interests of the public who go to racing. They must now repay those moneys to the lending authorities and this constitutes a heavy drain on racing income. If some of the existing liabilities of clubs could be refinanced over a longer time, this would enable stakes to be increased, thus giv.ing a grea ter return to owners, trainers and jockeys, and others who depend for their livelihood upon racing.

Discussions were held with senior racing administrators. I make it clear that these were not desultory discussions, but were continued over a very long period. The Under Secretary and I spent a tremendous amount of time with the administrators and, in the course of the discussions, we examined every aspect of racing administration. From these discussions, it is clear that the retention of the former Mentone and Epsom racecourses as training tracks is uneconomic. I think it will be five years before Mentone is disposed of, but I should not like to state a period in regard to Epsom, although I think the same principles which apply to Mentone should apply to Epsom. Obviously, they should be sold and the necessary provision made to transfer the training facilities to Caulfield, Flemington and other outer metropolitan or nearer country tracks.

Mr. WILKEs.-Can they cope with them?

Mr. RYLAH.-I think they can, but not immediately. This is a progressive measure which has to be achieved in the five-year period I have mentioned. I would not be bold enough to suggest that it could be done in twelve months or two years. If it is done over a period, I believe it can be achieved without diftkulty. However, I make the point that training facilities should not only be avai1able,~t Caulfield and Flemington,

but also should be extended to some of the decentralized racecourses which already provide those facilities.

Mr. WILKEs.-The Port Phillip. area? Mr. RYLAH.-Even beyond that

area.' Mr. WILTON .-Near-metropolitan

courses?

,Mr. RYLAH.-Even farther than that. I refer to places such as Ballarat, Bendigo, Warrnambool, Benalla and Seymour, all of which provide training facilities to-day. If they can be encouraged to provide further facilities and the trainers can be encouraged to go there-

Mr. WILTON.-It might beco'me a decentralized industry.

Mr. RYLAH.---'I thank the honorable ·member for his interjection because I believe racing is one of the most important decentralized industries in this State.

Mr. WILTON.-It is most important to those associated with the industry.

Mr. RYLAH.----J.t is important to racing and to trotting. I have had the opportunity of seeing some of the decentralized aspects of racing and trotting outside the metropolitan area, and it is encouraging to note the success that has been attained in the decentralized areas, and also to witness horses, trotters and pacers being trained in these districts. I believe that the Government and the Parliament should do everything possible to encourage this decentralized industry.

Mr. STEPHEN.-We always do.

Mr. RYLAH.---I hope that is so, and I thank the honorable member for his interjection. I believe the Government has pursued a policy of encouraging this type of decen tralized industry with some success.

Whilst this move would effect economies, it would, in the first instance, involve substantial financial commitments and it is proposed to use part of the new dev~lopment fund

Racing (Amendment) [13 MARCH, 1968.] Bill. 3643

for this purpose. In addition~. in appropriate cases, financial assistance will be given to trainers who will be affected by the move.

This morning's newspapers contained reports about large-scale trainers who are complaining that they have been under sentence. for nearly eight years and have been t~ld that they must m·ove from housIng areas. One bitterly complained that he had purchased a brick home last year and that now he ?as ~een t?ld unequivocally by the VIctOrIa Racmg Club that Mentone has to be vacated by the end of this year. Fundamentally, I do not believe this to be practical, but the trainers .were told of the proposal and for eIght years there have been discussions on when they should mov~. To-day, ~t. is unrealistic for tramers to be hvmg and training horses in a .housing area, and to risk life and limb when they have to cross, for instance, Warrigalroad with horses.

Mr. WILToN.-There is a risk tothe horses, too.

Mr. RYLAH.-That is so. A number of accidents have occurred, but fortunately no one has been killed. There is also a risk to school children and pedestrians. The trainers claim tha t they are on the roads before the normal traffic, but this is not so. They might start the training period before there is much traffic on the road, but they finish at a time when traffic is heavy, and I am amazed that more accidents have not occurred.

Those trainers who complain that the Government, which is trying to help them, has produced an unrealistic plan, should be thankful that the Governmen t is producing a scheme which will help them to get out of an unreal'istic situation. This State is not pioneering the training of racehorses on race-tracks because this scheme has been carried into effect in England for many years and is the practice in the United States of America and New Zealand. Victoria must face up to this and

realize that horses .cannot be trained in housing areas. It is quite uneconomical to keep tracks such as Men tone--which is not too good, anyway-and Epsom to suit trainers who have established their stables in the area. They would be much better off at any of the inner or outer metropolitan racecourses. I refer honorable members to the great success of trainers such as Smerdon, Lafferty and Daniels Who have been training at Ballarat, Bendigo and Warrnambool for many years. Trainers have ample opportunity to go to racecourses not only i? t~e metropolitan area but also outsIde It.

Mr. WILKEs.-Do the trainers referred to come into the metropolitan area?

The SPI~AKER (the Hon. Vernon ~hristie).--Order! The House cannot hear the interjection of the honorable member.

Mr. RYLAH.-I shall answer the interjection because it is pertinent. The honorable member for Northcote asked whether trainers Smerdon, Lafferty and Daniel's came in to the metropolitan area. Smerdon brought Yootha which ran second in the Australian Cup. Leytist, trained by Lafferty, ran second in one of the main races at Flemington last Saturday. These men are training horses under good conditions, and are much better off than trainers in Melbourne. The Warrnambool racecourse is much better for training horses than Flemington because of the present ~ater situation. The country tramers mentioned are ·making their mark in Melbourne.

The Government has approved of the creation of a Racecourses Development Fund, as proposed in the Bill, for the purposes which I have outlined. I think there will be little criticism of this proposal, but it may wen be that not all honorable members will agree with the proposed means by which moneys are to be credited to the new fundp~rhaps because at present they lack a full' appreciation of its merits.

3644 Racing (Amendment) [ASSEMBLY. ] Bill.

Putting it shortly, the proposal to increase the commission deducted from investments on the daily double, which is conducted by the Totalizator Agency Board, is simply raising money from racing for racing.

I am sure that, having witnessed the spectacular road projects made possible by the Roads (Special Projects) Act, aU honorable members will agree that without the annual payments by motorists, which are small individually but which in the aggregate constitute a large sum of money, we would never have witnessed road engineering improvements on such a large scale. What the Government did by means of that Act was to raise moneys from motorists for motorists, because the Act specifically required aU moneys raised from motorists. to be paid into a special fund.

What is now proposed in this Bill is similar in its application and purpose. The amount by which a double dividend would be reduced by the increased deduction of 1 per cent. is infinitesi'mal. For example, a $50 double dividend under the present 13 per cent. deduction would be reduced by 50 cents under the proposed 14 per cent. deduction. The 1 per cent. increased deduction on the daily double is expected to raise approximately $500,000 which, if appropriated prudently, would give material relief to many clubs. It is proposed in the Bill that moneys should be paid out of the fund with the approval of the Treasurer on the recommendation of the Racecourses Licences Board.

I t seems to me to be only equitable that the daily double should be selected as the only source to provide the income for the fund, because a considerable number of investors place their investments off-course. The win, place and quinella investments are untouched, as I believe the on-course investor should not be asked to make any additional contribution except, of course, in so far as he may take a daily double. In fact, the percentage of investments on the

Mr. Rylah.

daily double made on the course averages only 6 per cent. of the total investments. It must be realized that the on-course investor pays entertainment tax, has to buy a racebook, pays his entrance fee, and submits himself to the lower deductions applicable to the on-course totalizator. People who bet on the off-course totalizator have only to walk down to the local Totalizator Agency Board agency to make their investments, and it is only fair that they should make some contribution to racing generally. .

Mr. WILKEs.-Or ring up.

Mr. RYLAH.-That is so ; but they must pay for the telephone calls, which provide revenue for the Federal Government. In its horseracing jurisdiction, the Racecourses Licences Board will become an active Board, functioning from day to day in lieu of its present function 'as a Board, which meets once a year to consider applications for renewals of racecourse licences and to allot race meeting days. It is proposed that it should comprise three permanent members, namely, the Under Secretary, the chairman of the Victoda Radng Club, or his nominee, and a person representing country racing clubs, appointed by the Chief Secretary. When the Board is dealing with annual applications for licences and dates, 'a fourth member will be added to the Board who will be a changing representative from the district association which is concerned with the particular applications being dealt with by the Board. At present there is no permanent member representing the ,country association. The Under Secretary, a representative appointed by the Victoria Racing Club and 'a representative of the district association deal with these applications.

Turning to the proposal to authorize four midweek meetings at Sandown for the year 1968-69, I emphasize that the proposal is, ..1t this stage, experimental. I might add, also, that the Victoria Racing Club,

Racing (Amendment) [13 MARCH, 1968.] Bill. 3645

which under the Act allots the actual racing dates-as distinct from the number_ of racing days, which is the Board's function-has indicated that the four midweek dates to be allotted to Sandown will be t'aken from the midweek dates now aHotted to the Port Phillip clubs. There is thus no need for concern to be expressed on the part of those clubs outside the Port Phillip district. The Port Phillip clubs are in a most advantageous position. The deductions from the Q1n-course totalizator are much lower than the deductions applicable to the metropolit'an clubs. At . the same time, they have the benefit of good midweek racing and they have made a tremendous amount out of it. The Government is impressed with the fact that the Port Phillip district has not violently protested.

Mr. WILKES.-The telecasts of those meetings are ve,ry successful.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! Again, the House cannot hear the interjection of the honorable member.

Mr. RYLAH.-The honorable member for North cot e directed my attention to. the excellent telecasts of the midweek meetings in the Port Phillip district. They have done much for the tremendous development of racing in Victoria.

Mr. FENNESSY.-It is good viewing.

Mr. RYLAH.-That is so; it is weB dOine. I have made it clealr that if Sandown obtains these four midweek meetings the Victoria Amateur Turf Club should agree to have them televised in the s'ame way as has been done with meetings in the Port Phillip district and in other country areas.' This is most important because telecasting has brought a new look to racing in country areas. Mr. Speaker, I again apologize concerning the interjections.

Session 1968.-137.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).--I mentioned the matter in the interests of the House. If interjections are made and members of the House cannot hear them, it is difficult for members to understand what is happening.

Mr. RYLAH.-I am afraid that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition was a little fearful of your ruling that interjections were unruly.

The SPEAKER.-It is not my ruling ; it is in accordance with Standing Orders.

Mr. RYLAH.-On a Bill as important as this one I thought that with your permission, Mr. Speaker, . I should reply to the interjections. ,I wish now to refer to metropolitan midweek racing. The Government is opposed to metropolitan midweek racing and. it will not approve of midweek racing at Flemington, Caulfield or Moonee Valley under any circumstances. However, Sandown was submitted as a special case, because of its distance from Melbourne-it is approximately the same distance as Werribee--its magnificent facilities and the fact that it is well served by public transport, a six-lane highway and an over-pass. The Government has decided in the special case of Sandown to approve of four midweek dates on an experimental basis for one year.

The proposal in the Bill, that the Chief Secretary shall resolve any matter in respect of which the contributing club or other bodies or persons authorized to approve of the distribution of Totalizator Agency Board profits cannot reach agreement, is inserted merely to ensure that Totalizator Agency Board profits will not be distributed as provided for in the financial scheme first approved in 1961. By way of explanation, I point out that the Act provides that the financial scheme cannot be varied in the absence of agreement of all the parties concerned. Since the practice has arisen by which. the agreement is amended after the

3646 Racing (Amendment) (ASSEMBLY] Bill.

profits have been earned and specifically refers to each racing year, it follows that, in the absence of unanimous agreement, the oniy scheme which is capable of application is the original scheme which does not contain any specific reference to a racing year. No one desires the application of the scheme, least of all the clubs outside the mettopolitan area which to-day receive a much greater share than that to which they would have been entitled under the original scheme. It would be unthinkable to revert to the original scheme s!Ifiply because one party to the agreement disagreed with the majority this year or in some future year. Accordingly, if an issue arises which makes agreement impossible, the Bill empowers the Minister to resolve the matter.

Before tur~ing to discuss briefly the various clauses, I~ight add th4t th~ proposals in the Bill are the result of a series of conferences and many discussions with s~nior radng administratorS. I think it is fair to say that the proposals are generally acceptable to them. I use the w~rd " generally" because in a problem of this sort it is not always possible to get unanimous agreement.

Clause 3 adds a new paragraph (I) to section 13, the provisions of which permit four Wednesday meetings approved by the Chief Secretary to be held at the Sandown racecourse during the racing year from 1 st August, 1968, to the 31st July, 1969. These four meetings will be in addition to the maximum number of fourteen meetings for the Sandown racecourse provided for in the Second Schedule to the Act. The approval of the Chief Secretary in this regard is purely formal. The dates will be selected by the Victoria Racing Club and I shall simply put a rubber stamp on the programme.

Proposed new section 34, as contained in clause 4 of the Bill, reconstitutes the Racecourses Licences Board. Sub-section (2) of that section provides for a Board of three persons. The Board will comprise

Mr. Rylah.

the Under Secretary, who shall be chairman, the chairman of the Victoria Racing Club or his nominee a.ppointed by the Chief Secretary, and the person appointed by the Chief Secretary to represent the interests of country racing clu~s. This Board as so constituted will carry out its day-to-day functions.

Sub-section (3) provides for the person appointed by the Chief Secretary t6 represent trotting racing !nterests to tak~ his place on tpe Bo.ard when it is dealing with the granting of licences and the allotment of the number of race-meetings to trotting. cluqs in race-meetings cJistticts. 1:'his pe:rson will be a Qlember o.f the Board in lieu of the general representative of country race c1ub~ referred to. in paragraph (c) of subSectiOn (2).

Sub-section (4) provides for an additional member of the Board When it is dealing with the granting of licences and the allotment of the number of race-meetings for horse races in a particular race-meetings district. In this jurisdiction the Board will consist of four members.

The person who actually takes his place on the Board will be the member of the panel representing the race-meetings district within which the particular racecourse under consideration falls. The members of the panel who represent race-meetings district will be prepared by the Minister as it is at present.

Pursuant to the proposed new section 35 the quorum of the Board will be two members, and the chairman will have a deliberative as well as a casting vote. Provided that a quorum is present, the Board may continue to act during any vacancy. In other respects, the Board is empowered to regulate its own procedure.

The powers and functions of the Racecourses Licences Board are set out in sub-section (1) of the new section 35A, as contained in clause 4 of the Bill. The matters relating to

Racing (Amendment) [13 MARCH, 1968.] Bill. 364~

the issue of licences and the allotment of the number of race-meetings in race-meetings districts as referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b) are the same as they are under the present law.

Paragraph (c) empowers the Racecourses Licences Board to make recoI11mendations to the Treasurer of Victoria on the distribution of the Country Racing Clubs Fund. This is a new proposal. The recommet:ldations are now made by a voluntary committee which meets regularly, but it is considered that tl1e Board could well take over this function.'

Paragraphs (d) and (e) ve~t in the Board the responsibility of making recommendations to the Treasurer on the distribution of the Racecourses Development Fund and of advising the Treasurer in relation to that fund. Sub-section (2) of the new section 35A refers to various matters concerning the procedure of ~l1otment of race-meetings and is the same as the present law.

The new section 35B provides for the preparation by the Chief Secretary of a panel containing the names of persons representing racemeetings districts and is similar to the present paragraphs (a), (b), (c) and (d) of section 35 of the prinCipal Act.

Section 36 of the principal Act, which empowers the Governor in Council to make regulations for or with respect to horse-racing, is to be amended by clause 5 of the Bill. This new provision extends those powers to enable the Governor in Council to prescribe travelling expenses, fees and allowances to be paid to members of the Board.

The proposed new section 116AJ, as contained in clause 6, is a most complicated provision, but it is correctly stated in the Bill. It requires 14 per centum of the moneys invested on the daily doubles on horse races to be deducted by way of commission.

The comm.ission to be deducted from daily doubles on trotting races and dog races will remain at 13 per centum of the moneys invested. The commission on feature doubles on horse, trotting and dog races will also remain at 13 per centum.

Section 116AN of the principal Act sets down the proportion of the commission deducted from daily doubles' and feature doubles which" must be paid tp the Treasurer of Victoria. Clallse 7 of the Bill re-arranges section 116AN, the effect of which is that the additional commission of 1 per centun1 deducted from the daily doubles on horse raceS will be paid to the Treasurer of Victoria and carried to the Racecourses Development Fund.

The anlendments contained it) clause 8 will enable the Minister to resolve matters in dispute in relation to the distribution of the residue of commissio11 under the financial agreement where agreement cannot be reached by the parties referred to in the proviso to sub-section (5) of section II (h of the prinCipal Act.

Mr. JONA.-Is the Minister the Chief Secretary?

Mr. RYLAH.-Yes. Clause 9 repeals sub-section (1) of section 122 of the principal Act which constitutes the Country Racing Clubs Fund Committee. This clause also amends sub-section (2) of that section to require the Racecourses Licences Board to rnake recommendations to the Treasurer of Victoria on the distribution of the Country Racing Clubs Fund.

A further Division to Part VI. of the principal Act is added by clause 10. The new section 126 within that Division constitutes a Racecourses Development Fund to be kept in the Treasury. The section requires the additional commission of 1 per centum from daily doubles on horse races to be paid to the Treasurer 'of

3648 Adjournment. [ASSEMBL Y.] Adjournment.

Victoria and credited to the Racecourses Development Fund, together with interest from investments by the Treasurer of moneys standing to the credit of that fund.

The manner in which the moneys in the fund will be applied is set out in sub-section (4) of the new section 126. Sub-section (5) of the new section is important. It prohibits any :metropolitan horse-racing club from incurring any capital expenditure exceeding $20,000, or, in the case of a country horse-racing club, capital expenditure, exceeding $2,500, without the approval of the Racecour~es Licences Board. The only exceptIon will be where the capital expenditure of the club can be met from its current assets without borrowing additional funds. The purpose of this provision is to ensu~e . t?~t cl~bs will not undertake lIabIlItIes wIth which they believe they can cope, and then, within a few years, ask for help from the development fund. There has perhaps been a tendency in some cases for clubs to incur liabilities, but, although these can be met by the clubs, the repayment of the capita'l borrowed takes -a great deal of money from racing. Some people may regard this as interfering with the liberty of racing clubs but, if the fund is to be available to assist them, they must be subject to some control.

Mr. WILKES.-That is done with local government bodies.

Mr. RYLAH.-As the Deputy Leader of the Opposition says, that is done in local government and it is also done in other fields. I suggest that the provision is justified. I commend the Bill to the ·House. I do not expect .it to have ~ speedy pass~~e ; in fact I should lIke the OPPosItIOn and th~ Country Party to examine it carefully.

On the mO,tion of Mr. WILKES (Northcote), the debate was adjourned.


ADJOURNMENT. RAILWAY DEPARTMENT: DELAY IN

TRANSHIPPING HAY AT NEW SOUTH WALES-VICTORIA BORDER-PARKING FACILITIES AT FAWKNER RAILWAY STATION-DOOR TO DOOR (SALES) ACT: AVOIDANCE OF PROVISIONSEDUCATION DEPARTMENT: SPORTING ACTIVITIES: TEN PIN BOWLING. Mr. RYLAH (Chief Secretary).

I move-That the House, at its rising, adjourn

until Tuesday next, at half-past Three o'clock.



That the House do now adjourn.

Mr. STEPHEN (Ballaarat South).I direct the attention of the Minister of Transport to a ·matter referred to me to-day by a Western District grazier. He indicated that there may be serious delays at the border in transhipping grass and lucerne hay carried by rail from New South Wales to Victoria I do not have to explain to the House the concern which any such delays would cause to graziers who are already in a desperate plight. A year or so ago, when Victoria was shipping fodder to New South Wales, I told the House that New South Wales graziers were sufferin~ inconvenience because of delays III transhipment. I ask the Minister to determine whether these delays are occurring and, if they are, ~o. take firm action to remedy the pOSItIon.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -A couple of years ago Parliament er:acted the Door to Door (Sales) Act which enables householders who enter into agreements to purchase goods from door-to-door salesmen to void the contract within five days. I have received a letter from a solicitor in my electorate relating to ap incident concerning one of hIS clients. The letter points out that his client signed a contract to purchase books at a cost of approximately $390 but that, before th~ .time for doing so expired, the SolICItor gave


the necessary notice and voided the contract. The solicitor also states that since then his client has been constantly harassed by a collection agency, and he enclosed a copy of a letter forwarded to his client's employer in the previous week. He states-

In my opinion this amounts virtually to blackmail, and I was wondering if there was any control over firms of this type.

The letter sent to his client's employer is' on an official-seeming form headed "Notice to Employer Before Court Action". It is dated 26th February, 1968, and after giving the name -of the solicitor'S client, states that the company for which the money is claimed is International Learning Syste·ms Corporation Limited, 566 St. Kilda-road, Melbourne. The letter states-

The above party, whom we believe to be in your employ, is indebted to our client, International Learning System in the sum of $380.00.

Circumstances compel us to commence Court action in three (3) days against the above-named employee. Court enforcement action will follow.

We solicit your co-operation in trying to avoid this action.

We can assure you that we have been completely fair and patient with your employee herein referred to but requests for a reasonable settlement have not been complied with.

Legal proceedings' involve loss of time and distraction from work, as well as added legal expenses payable by your employee. We have provided advance notice to your employee that only his immediate settlement of this contract by remitting past due payments will avoid COURT ACTION.

The words, "Court enforcement will follow", are underlined. I cannot read the signature but the designation of the person who signed the letter is "Legal Process Officer, C.C. Collection Services". I agree with the solicitor who wrote to me that this virtually amounts to blackmail.

I direct this matter to the attention of the Attorney-General in the hope that some pUblicity may be given to it. Many people may form the impression that such letters are legal

Session 1968.-138.

notices and that they have no option but to meet the demand made on them. If this is the case, the excellent provisions of the Door to Door (Sales) Act are being avoided by unscrupulous people. I urge the Attorney-General to take whatever action is necessary to overcome this situation.

Mr. WI]~TON (Broadmeadows).In 1966, on behalf of the Fawkner Progress Association, I raised with the then Minister of Transport the pcssibility of parking facilities being provided at Fawkner railway station. In a letter dated 21st February, 1966, the honorable gentleman indicated that he had discussed the matters with the Railways Commissioners who had for some time been considering that possibility. He also indicated that plans were being prepared and it was hoped that the Commissioners could reach agreement with the trustees of the cemetery. The last correspondence I received from him indicated that he would give me further information when he could. That was in 1966.

I ask the Minister of Transport to discuss this matter with the Commissioners with a view to determining what progress, if any, has been made in negotiations with the cemetery trustees. Many people in the area are anxious that parking facilities should be provided at Fawkner station. They would be of tremendous value to people who wanted to leave their 'cars there and travel by train to Melbourne, and I am sure the Minister would agree that they would also prove of va'lue to the railways.

Mr. WHEELER (Essendon).-I have received a letter from Mrs. Marlene Mitchell, of 61 York-street, Strathmore. It states-

During the years my children have attended school, there have been many times when things have occurred at the State schools which, to my mind, were beyond my comprehension, and have done nothing

3650. Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjo.urnment .,. .

about. Recently my attention was drawn to something which I would like your opinion of, namely "ten pin bowling". My son came home from school and infonned me that evexy Wednesday afternoon he and many other children would be playing "ten pin bowling" during the sport time allotted, and 'that this (" sport?") is part of the recommended subjects for sport. Apart from the cost involved, (which is nominal) I would suggest that a teacher's time would be more suitably taken up than sitting at a bowling alley supervising this ridiculous idea. Is it that the bowling alleys are running at such a loss that the impressionable youth is encouraged to take this up, as they are the future workforce without the responsibility of a family and home to support with their wage. Apparently most of the high schools in Meibourne have introduced this amongst what is called sporting activity. Bowling is O.K. in its place. To while away an odd hour in one's free time. Please ! ! explain to me what bowling has to do with education. I am not alone in my objections. Most of my friends have children of the same age and all object to this new addition to our children'S education.

I should like the Minister to advise me whether ten pin bowling is an accepted sport for school children or whether a sport should be played in the open air.

Mr. G. O. REID (Attorney-General). -I am grateful for the Deputy Leader of the Country Party bringing to my notice a debt collecting agency writing letters of a threatening character to the employer of an alleged debtor. He has also written to the Chief Secretary about the matter. The Chief Secretary and I will have appropriate inquiries made and the honorable member will be advised of the action taken in this regard.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-1 shall make an early inquiry into the matter raised by the honorable member for Ballaarat South. I heard something about it to-day, but I do not know any more about it than has been stated by the honorable member. I am sure the difficulty can be readily overcome because, as the honorable member for Ballaarat South and other members are aware, the railways have a pretty good record of affording assistance in ma tters relating to the drought.

I regret that the honorable member for Broadmeadows, who referred to parking facilities at Fawkner railw~y station, did not write to me, as he dId to my predecessor.

Mr. WILTON.-I did write-twice.

Mr. WILCOX.-Not to me.

Mr. WILTON.-I wrote to the Minister of Transport twice. How many times should I write?

Mr. WILCOX.-I shall give the honorable member the benefit of the doubt.

Mr. WILToN.-There is no need to give me the benefit of any doubt. I invite the Minister to read the file.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Labour and Industry).-There are two areas of responsibility within the Education Department concerned with sporting activities in schools, either primary schools or high schools. The Physical Education Branch of the Education Department is responsible for laying down the principles of sport education in schools. The head teacher of a school is responsible for allowing children to participate in various sports and for arranging for various sports to be played within the time allotted in the curriculum. The question of ten pin bowling as a sport would need to be examined on the same level as was lacrosse when it was first introduced as a sport in State schools. That proposal met with some opposition on the ground that it was a non-Australian sport. Perhaps soccer and ping pong are in a similar category. All of these activities are good for the growing child. Whether or not ten pin bowling should be advocated as a sport and included in the curriculum is a question which I shall ask the Physical Education Branch, the primary schools and the head teachers concerned to examine. I shall inform the honorable member of the result of my inquiries.


The House adjourned at 9.27 p.m. until Tuesday, March 19.

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