The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 004 Kerry Grimes

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW

Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 1 of 19

EPISODE #4: KERRY GRIMES

Introduction: You’re listening to Diamonds in Your Own Backyard. The business owner’s guide to

discovering success, wealth, and happiness within your own business where each week you’ll hear

inspirational stories, strategies, and inside secrets of some of the most powerful small business owners

themselves. On the Amazing Women of Power Network powered by Raven International, and now

here’s your host Travis Lane Jenkins and Sandra Champlain.

Kerry Grimes

Travis: Hey, this is Travis Lane Jenkins.

Sandra: And this is Sandra Champlain. Today in our show we have the privilege of speaking with Mr.

Kerry Grimes. Kerry was Sales Director for a major manufacturer and supplier to the electronic industry

and was with that company for 23 years. But then 20 years ago he started Zone Distribution Company

supplying the same industry precisely to printed circuit board manufacturers and now incorporating

semi conductor companies. Having brought a Taiwanese company to the Americas market in 1993,

and successfully established a distribution that worked for that company. A 25 million dollar

manufacturing facility in the US built in 2001 which provides about a hundred jobs in the United States

today. I have the good fortune of meeting Kerry by sitting next to him on an airplane 2 years ago. He is

caring. He has a genuine love for people and he shares his story with me about how he became such a

successful salesman and businessman. In fact he is so successful that this company won’t let him

retire. Kerry continues today working as a marketing and sales consultant for the company. So now it is

my sheer pleasure to introduce to you to the extraordinary and fabulous Mr. Kerry Grimes. Kerry

welcome to our show.

Kerry: Thank you Sandra. I appreciate very much that I can contribute something to your listeners

today.

Travis: I want to jump in one thing really quick; I don’t think it’s clear how much of a rock-star you are

when it comes to business. I say rock-star because the show is called Diamonds In Your Own

Backyard. Kind of a funny little play of words but I just want to be crystal clear of how much of an

incredibly successful businessman you’ve been and while the opener describes some of your

accomplishments, I think it falls short of clearly explaining how incredibly successful you’ve been.

Today on the call, I just want to try and dig in to how you discovered that success and what the turning

points were. Kind of just throwing the ball back and forth about your journey and how the people

listening to this show can take some of the discoveries you’ve had. And apply it to their own business

and start ramping their business up to that level of success. Does that make any sense?




Kerry: Absolutely great and I would be happy to be a contributor to that.

Travis: So were you always this successful?

Kerry: No, I think there’s probably a series of failures you have to have to prepare yourself for success.

There’s a lesson to be learned as you go along and they are hard lessons. That’s why they are to learn

the hard way, sometimes by failure. But once you get through the initial learning curve of understanding

of what business is and how it works. It then becomes very clear how you have to proceed to succeed.

Travis: Right. So, do you feel that someone has to fail on an epic level or you think it’s just a series of

trial and error of getting out there and taking action and figuring out what does and doesn’t work? Is that

what you’re saying?

Kerry: Actually it isn’t on an epic level at all it can be, because like a lemon aide stand end up throwing

away the lemon aide. You have to get through some of the basics of understanding inventory, the cost

of inventory, employee relations, customer relations, and all these things are not inherent in everybody

coming out of school. So I think those are the lessons that you have to learn and some people

fortunately learn them without any crisis or a trauma. Some have to take it the hard way.

Travis: Let me transfer some of my experience, and I want to hear what you have to say about it

because for me, now I have experienced an incredible success and an incredible failure. My first

mistake when I had built the business to a pretty large level, I drove that proverbial bus the business,

from the fair view or from the sales window. I was always looking at how much we were selling and I

ultimately made a lot of decisions, purchasing decisions, whatever, based on how much sales was

coming in. For me, the lesson was I should have been driving the activities of what we do buy, what we

don’t buy, from the accounting perspective for cash flow or gross profit. It is very easy to get intoxicated

with top line sales and forget about bottom line net profit. Does that make sense?

Kerry: Absolutely.

Travis: I sold a job for 1 million dollars one time and I think it took $999,999 to produce it. And so after

six weeks I’ve made a dollar and it was a terrible lesson. Is that a good example of what you’re talking

about?

Kerry: You know that first company that I worked for 23 years; it was amazing because over those 23

years different people were put in the helm of the ship. Each time they chose the next president he

came from a different discipline at one point it was a research guy. Our head of research was promoted

to president. Another case it was the sales and marketing guy and they’re such a distinct flavour

change in how the company operates with each of the discipline leaders who came in until, they

rounded themselves out to be able to be a total president, and that’s the kind of what you’re talking

about I think. You need to not think of sales, and not just think of accounting, and make sure that you




rounded yourself out to handling all the attributes of the business rather than what you’re just familiar

with.

Travis: Right. I agree with you 100%. So, when you worked in this industry for 23 years and then you

decided to go out on your own doing basically the same thing. Right?

Kerry: Exactly and in competition to my former employer.

Travis: Okay, and so were you an instant success?

Kerry: No, we started in our garage literally, in the garage in one bay of my garage in Southern

California. That was about a year and a half before we ever even got a building. And during that period,

I never sat down once. It may sound crazy, but I told my wife, that I’m going to work at this work bench

on the computer or whatever and I’m not going to sit down because it makes me feel lazy. For that year

and a half, I spent the entire time either in the car visiting customers making deliveries or at my

computer at night mostly. That whole thing took us a year and a half before we ever saw a pay check.

So, it was a long period to get the business at least to the point where we said, “Whoa, we can now go

out and buy a real meal not a pizza on sale.”

Travis: Right, right. I think anybody who starts a business can definitely understand where you’re

telling from. It’s a real effort in the beginning. Isn’t it? It’s actually an effort all the time but it’s an extra

effort in the beginning, isn’t it?

Kerry: It is and you have so many times when you are criticizing yourself, wondering if you’re doing the

right things because the challenges of getting the business up and running to a profitable level is huge,

absolutely huge.

Travis: After you got beyond a year and a half was it a straight uphill assent to success, profit, and

prosperity for you? Or were there any blips along the way that made you wonder if you’re actually going

to be successful or not?

Kerry: No blips. Once we broke the barrier we knew exactly what we had to do to be successful. We

knew we had to sell a certain amount. We knew we had to control our expenses. We knew that we had

to fund the business ourselves. That was one of the keys to the whole thing. You really have a huge job

just paying the bills and funding the necessary expansions the business as you go along. Accounts

receivables were overly challenging in the beginning but as profits started to happen. We began to

accumulate enough cash to back up our accounts receivable and things like that became easier and

easier.

Travis: Right. When you say accounts receivable is it due to people not wanting to pay? I knew a lot of

times when you’re dealing with industries that put you on a net 30 or net 60 to where you got to provide




the product and do without the income for an extended amount of time. Which one of those was the

case for you?

Kerry: All of the above. Our customers were feeling the electronics industry was beginning to make

the realization. It could no longer compete with companies like in Asia, China especially. So the

companies were beginning to fail as American companies started buying from overseas. So what they

do is they start to operate on your money. So what started as a net 30 plan soon become a net 60

battle, and then on most occasions a real challenge to get the money by 90 days and as you start to

accumulate receivables, you accumulate your growth and then you get start to get driven in days. It

becomes an astronomical cash flow problem.

Travis: Exactly. Cash flow is the lifeblood of the business, right?

Kerry: Exactly, and fortunately for me I happen to team up with a company that was just extraordinary.

I went to Taiwan and sat down with the chairman and said, “I cannot fund this business properly.” I

didn’t intend to go get money from him. I wanted to make it honest with him that if something goes

wrong and this was a very delicate balance. I was up to a million dollars in receivables before I knew

what happened and I said, “I can’t back that up, I’m not a millionaire.” After a week and a half a number

of staff from Taiwan showed up and had a plan how to fund the business for me completely and no

interest, no involvement of ownership. They simply provide the mechanism to provide the money to me

to build the business as far as I wanted to go, and that honestly paid up there for sure.

Travis: That’s a great story, but I have a suspicion that you had earned that somehow and either your

principles, your integrity their affinity for working for you, or you had some advantage with your product.

What was it that made them want to go out of their way to make such a serious, because that’s a big

deal?

Kerry: My wife and I ask them, when we have been in business for a number of years, why they chose

us? Because they knew we were virtually working out of our garage, and this was a big business. They

look at both at us and said, “We did that because we knew you would work for us.” When they decided

to fund the business, it was trust. The whole thing was built on trust.

Travis: It was your integrity, it was clear to them that with your integrity they can trust you.

Kerry: Absolutely.

Travis: Kerry do you feel that that’s normally what stands between most people and a sale at business,

as a sales person getting the sale is trust?

Kerry: I will have to agree with you 100% the first thing to do is establish that trust between you and

your customer.




Sandra: Kerry, you told me when we were sitting in the airplane that it was pretty unique and it was a

way you to talk to people when you meet them. If you wouldn’t mind going back this in to your earlier

days getting into sales and you spoke a bit about Dale Carnegie course you’ve had taken and you’re

quite successful. A lot of who you are today I think is based on some of the foundations that you built a

long ago. I think there are basic principles that I don’t want people to miss. As far as how to have a

conversation with someone and would you willing to share with one of those kind of tips?

Kerry: Sure.

Sandra: Before it was pretty unique and started going door to door as a salesman didn’t you back in

the days.

Kerry: I did in fact I was the youngest Fuller brush man in the State of Minnesota at that time.

Sandra: Aha!

Travis: I love it.

Kerry: I needed to do something, I took a job selling Fuller brushes and I thought this should be fun

and at nineteen having no experience whatsoever in sales I began doing the usual Fuller brushes route

and you go around and you knock on the door, when they open you hold up card and say “Please

choose one free and that way you get a vegetable brush and skin care material or whatever.” I did that

about for a year and it was an incredible interesting experience. Because I got to meet so many people

and I had the repetitious line from housewives of course. I had the baby in the bath, I can’t talk now, or

gee I don’t need anything this week but stop next time your around will you. You get accustomed to that

after a thousand visits and that was a lot of fun. I called on some wealthy people. I had great

experiences with the Pillsbury’s and it was a great start for a sales career. It taught me the discipline.

That #1 you go out there in the morning at 8 o’ clock and knock on that first door. And you do not go

home until 6 o’ clock, and if you have not met your sales objectives then maybe it’s going to be 7 or 8.

But that was the first lesson that you must be disciplined. Get to work and stay at work, until you

complete your job. So that was a very interesting thing.

Travis: Great lesson on excellent work ethics.

Travis: What was your awareness in the sales? What did you discover in the sales part of it that made

you effective?

Kerry: Well Dale Carnegie again taught a pretty straight forward principle. Percy Whitings who was the

sales manager for Carnegie wrote a book and he explains the five steps of a sale, and while you learn

these things in seminars they don’t really become a part of who you are for a long time and the

suddenly you really realize it is exactly correct. Percy said, by the way they found out that he could not




sell so they made him the sales manager that was deleted from the book but the way it goes is the sale

consist of five parts. People can come up with all kind of different ways to describe it but basically

Attention, Interest, Desire, Conviction, and Close. And these steps are critical for you to know where

you are in the sale. If you’re at the close point, the customer has said, “I really, really like that red one,

then close the deal.” But if he is saying, “I don’t need a new car today.” Then you don’t even have his

attention, you maybe, its better you go back to step 1. A real meaningful lesson that I learned that I’ve

lived by because it’s so accurate; knowing where you are in the sale is the most important part of

selling.

Travis: It’s so important how the basics apply no matter what year it is.

Kerry: Oh. Absolutely.

Sandra: You have a knack of, I believe making people feel cared for, and listened to and it didn’t take

long in the airplane before I felt like you were a friend already forever, and that was clear you were

somebody I want to have a friendship with. So I would tend to think you have some strategies that

you’ve picked up along the line too that just makes people feel good about themselves, and so all the

trustworthiness that you have that genuinely speaking that you have learned to speak and listen

probably more importantly to people. Is that correct?

Kerry: I’d say it’s the listening part. One of the most important things is people love talking about

themselves and if you give them that vehicle to drive, you will enjoy yourself immensely because

they’ve got story after story they want to tell. They’ve got their history and it’s so interesting to listen to

it. So all you have to do is put some coal to the fire and then let it go and they will take off and begin to

tell you everything about their life that is important to them and you can get to know them very quickly,

because that’s most important to them.

Sandra: What kind of questions?

Kerry: One of the great ones is, do you get to travel much? Have you had any bad experiences in your

life in school, when you were in grade school? Do you remember the girl that you first dated in high

school? Was she like a cheer leader or anything? And then they’ll start to tell you about all the girls in

their high school life. You ask them if they have been in the military, what they do in their work, there’s

a whole group of questions that you can very quickly gather up when you start to ask people about their

life, and that’s really all there is. Just ask them about their life, what has happened to them.

Sandra: And it feels good as I know being the one to share that. It actually created an affinity I had for

you even though you were not that much talking.

Kerry: No, I keep my mouth shut.




Sandra: Yeah.

Travis: Hey Kerry, did you ever employ any mirroring tactics or anything like that?

Kerry: No, I never did.

Travis: Okay, just for clarification for everyone mirroring is doing the same type of behaviour in posture,

tonality, and level of speech and everything that the person you’re speaking to because people tend to

like themselves.

Kerry: Yes.

Travis: And of course, I found a lot of salesmen that are taught that and it seems to be inauthentic at

first but then it becomes a very natural thing later. Because when two people are in rapport with each

other, they’re really enjoying each other’s company, they tend to move in similar patterns and so I was

curious if you’ve ever used that in your sales strategy. But you never found that necessary?

Kerry: No, I did find it was very enjoyable to learn about things like a book I read called Territorial

Imperative. It talks about the personalities of the apes, and how they take ownership of territories. Our

customers and our friends and everyone actually they live by the same kind of behaviour as these great

apes. There is an area that is their property and once you begin to realize that and start to recognize

what area they have carved out in their desks, or their kitchen table, or kitchen counter. It’s amazing

how they own that and how disruptive it is if you mess with it. Let’s say a person has a picture on their

desk and you lean forward and push the picture to the side a little bit just to be unordinary that disrupts

the person you’re talking to severely because it’s their territory and you just violated their territory

without saying a word. You can do that accidentally and really offend people a lot, or you can take great

care and make sure you avoid it.

Travis: Yes, it’s a great way to disrespect that person.

Kerry: Yes.

Travis: And get out of rapport immediately.

Kerry: And they don’t even know that’s really what happened. It’s very psychological.

Travis: Right. Similar to invading someone’s space when you’re not in rapport with them, as you get in

too close of proximity. I think the standard is 2 feet for American and it differs from where you’re from.

But if you get in someone’s personal space, and you’re not in rapport with them, you’re really running

the risk of getting out of rapport with them or running the risk of ever being able to get in rapport with

them.




Kerry: For sure.

Travis: Before we actually started this show, you and I talked for a minute and you hit on something

that I think is critical to the success of a lot of everyone’s business. It’s surprising how many people are

unaware of their pricing models and how much price elasticity. In other words, a lot of people will come

up with a price based on what their competitions charges which is a very dangerous way to figure out

how much your price is going to be to your client.

Kerry: Exactly right.

Travis: And one of the things, there’s a model for figuring that out though that would probably require

some presentations screens to show. You were talking about, I discovered that you had early on was

charging top dollar for your services or forgot exactly how you said that, can you talk about that?

Kerry: Well, I certainly can. The company I was with for so many years was one of two selling the

product that we sold in North America, Europe, and actually all over the world eventually, and it was us

against Dupont. Now, of course Dupont was a pretty much substantial company and we would battle

back and forth but generally we would end up to undercharging compared to Dupont because we were

not Dupont. They were the big kid in town. When I started my own business I thought through this

concept and always found that we were trying to cheapen things because we charge lower prices and

we didn’t have this much margin, so when I started my own distribution company, I decided I would not

do that. I would treat everyone the same. I would have one set of prices, it would fit all my customers

and it would probably be more than the competition. But that’s okay. I will give them the service and the

value added so that they will be glad to pay me, and it worked, it worked beautifully. I was making very

good profits once we got the sales level high enough and we could provide service beyond anyone else

because we had the money to do it. I think that it’s important not to be the cheapest in town but to be

the best, and customers will remember that. I’m sorry I used to many stories to explain things but once

upon a time we wanted to buy a refrigerator, and we went to Sears and Roebuck who had 8 different

refrigerators. We ran into the best refrigerator salesman I think there is in the whole world. The man

knew more about his product and provided us with insights in buying the right refrigerator. When it was

all done we realize we’ve paid a fair amount more than previous quotes we’ve gotten. Thinking this is

going to be cheaper, and sure enough we paid a lot more for our refrigerator buying it from this

gentleman, because he provided that extra edge of service and support and value that we really enjoy

having.

Travis: Right.

Kerry: It’s so important that you value what you give your customers and give them good value.

Travis: It has an impact on everything. One of the interesting things that I’ve found, now I’ve run a low

margin business and a high margin business, and the interesting thing is that the low margin business




is a whole lot labour intensive to run. And so since when we were selling low margin, we could not

afford extra staff. We could not afford the nice things for the customers. Being able to charge high

margin, is not only important its life changing, I think.

Kerry: Well we know that the market sets the price. You cannot go out and sell a Chevrolet for

$68,000. The market says that Chevrolet is worth maybe $35,000 or $25,000. So the market to some

degree decides how much you can charge but you still can add value pricing to that. Depending on the

kind of company you want to be known as, that’s your job as the owner to set that standard and set up

the pricing so that it reflects the quality and value you are providing.

Travis: Exactly. And so... go ahead.

Kerry: You have to be a believer in what you’re giving your customers.

Travis: Yeah and you have to be able to give a clear and concise argument on why you’re better, right?

Kerry: Exactly.

Travis: It’s a little harder to charge when you talked about an industry sets the price. I think I found that

it happens a lot more with the commodity type things. When you can buy item A in 5 different locations.

Kerry: Yes.

Travis: It really drives the price, and so you can get smaller price uplift on the added service that you

can give. Now the rules really tend to change in a service based business because it’s no longer a

commodity. It’s very tough to compare an apple to an orange and expect to pay the same price.

Kerry: Exactly, there’s just no comparables.

Travis: Right. And so, that would be the caveat in my experience. In my service based business we

always focus on educating the customer so that we could attract the value buyers and then the price

buyers once they went to the education process. It was clear to them that we weren’t to be the

cheapest and they typically went away, which was good for us because we were never going to sell

them anyway.

Kerry: Very true.

Travis: Yeah.

Kerry: In developing the pricing for a business, any business. Let’s take a restaurant, I know of some

Japanese restaurants close by my house here where I can buy sushi for, let’s try and use a number, for

$25 I can have a fabulous sushi dinner, or I could go up to Scottsdale were they happen to have a

fabulous restaurant who is well known globally. And I can spend $150 on the same sushi. So there’s a




big difference in what you charge for your product based upon what you give. You go to the place that

serves a $150 sushi and I will tell you what, it is an incredible experience.

Travis: Right.

Kerry: And that’s what you’re paying for.

Travis: Right

Kerry: Sushi was just secondary.

Travis: Yeah, great point.

Sandra: Kerry, will you, Oh sorry Travis. It’s a bonus for both of us interviewing you Kerry, I’m

wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about your business, like what exactly the manufacturing

is. I know you continually make trips to Asia and things like that. If you could just break it down into, I

know it’s in the computer world and circuit boards and things like that, but for those of us who do not

know so much about that. I think you could at least explain what your business is that you’ve got.

Kerry: Sure. Long ago they started making printed circuits to eliminate wiring and for over folks who

remember the Zenith television was hand wired and they were very proud of that. Less than replaced

by printed circuitry which is become amazingly complicated. And the term printed circuit means that you

got to be able to create an image of the circuitry that you want. So they use artwork and it was simply

filmed with the black or clear area. And you could expose things or not expose things to further process

them. In our industry, the final step that we took that was so important about 40 years ago was that the

Dupont invented a film that performs that function to allow you to define the circuit pattern. The

company I work for one in competition whether in the matter of a year or two after they came out of the

product. And grew their very nicely. The product that I started to sell 20 years ago was from a Taiwan

competitor, a small chemical company in Taiwan. They made similar products and all of the products

are kind are of the same, they’ve got a little different chemical personality. But they’re really all the

same function technically. So we have built our company, our distribution company based upon being

the master distributor of this film to all companies who made printed circuits in North America and

South America. Since then, we have had enough volume increases that we want to build a factory

which is Richmond, Virginia. We now supply all of Europe and all of North America from that factory

and all of Asia is supplied from 9 different factories in China and Taiwan. So right now the company I

work for is the largest film company of this type in the world. They bought my former employer and all

those employees showed up in a meeting to find they are back working for me. It’s kind of interesting

day. Right now we are supplying as I say the world to a number of different factories. I am the

Marketing Sales Consultant for the America’s and Europe. And hopefully after now I have been with

them 20 years, as either their Master Distributor or their Consultant, I am hoping that this year maybe I

would be able to retire.




Sandra: You said that 2 years ago.

Kerry: Yeah. But Chinese have a way that they believe you should virtually die at your desk. That is the

perfect way to go, because that’s what they do for their hobby is to work. They love to work. So that’s

why I am having a difficult time giving released is they keep saying, “well you are still too young to

retire.”

Travis: Well, also when you say released you’re talking about from your company providing services to

them.

Kerry: Yeah, it’s a question that I have provided them clarity that when we have meetings as an

example, I would attend many, many, many meetings only because I understand English. Americans

don’t seem to gather the reality that they don’t really speak English. They speak this broken up, slang

filled language that foreigners have a terrible time understanding because of so many nuances.

Travis: Yeah.

Kerry: So I will sit through a meeting and when we’re done, I will ask the guys how did you do? What

did you get out of it? They said maybe 20%, so then I will explain exactly what happened. They don’t

even realize when people are mad at them in English because we don’t really say things clearly.

Travis: Right.

Kerry: So my job is almost translator as much as Marketing and Sales Guy.

Travis: Right. And it’s not even straight translation I have experience with this is because I deal with

different people from other countries as well, is what we infer, the things that as Americans infer

through our tonality, through our double entendre.

Kerry: Actually you are right.

Travis: There are so many different nuances to what’s being said, actually there’s a technique that I

teach my salesmen because a lot of times they don’t understand and the power of how something is

delivered, and so an exercise that I’ve done with them is I say the same 5 or 6 words in 3 different ways

and it means 3 different things.

Kerry: Yes.

Travis: Once I tell them what they actually mean, they already knew what they mean but they didn’t

understand it. So the phrase is “I didn’t steal your car.” Which the way you phrase that is “I didn’t steal

your car, I stole someone else’s car,” or I didn’t steal your car. And that means I didn’t steal your car,




and I don’t know what you’re talking about. The final way is” I didn’t steal your car.” And it means I

didn’t steal your car, but I do know who did.

Kerry: Exactly.

Travis: Right. All of that is by the tonality and by the inflection of the words and when salesmen

understand that, they are better salesmen, but also people in other parts of the world. That just went

right over the top of their head.

Kerry: I had a salesman one time who really understood this very well, and he would just make people

love him because of his style of speech. If you ask them, “What is it you like so much about Frank?”

Frank was just a nice guy and I didn’t think he wasn’t anybody special. And they said he was special

because he was always clear in what he was saying. They never doubted what he meant, and that’s

exactly what you’re talking about. People need to know what you’re saying clearly and all this nuances

needed to be left to the side, until you’re out of the golf course or something like that.

Travis: Right. People do it for different reasons to seem more intelligent or whatever, whatever it is.

Kerry: Yeah, absolutely.

Travis: You have to be aware of that when you’re communicating with people. Let me ask you, we’ve

talked about sales techniques and the things that you used to become successful, knowing that the

person that is listening to this is a business owner just like me, you, and Sandra. What do you feel like

in your vast knowledge of experience and success and just your journey through life? What do you feel

like or the key things, a couple of key things that a business owner should focus on to take their

business to the next level?

Kerry: Wow. That’s a big one. The primary thing that I believe in my heart of hearts is the important of

all, and that is honesty.

Travis: Right.

Kerry: And that is given. It’s a must. It’s absolute. And if you start with that concept even though

sometimes it’s painful. Honesty is the by word of how you run your company. You will be more and

more successful every day. When a customer buys something and they are not satisfied with it, your

honesty has to kick in and say, “I’m so sincerely sorry that you didn’t enjoy that. We of course will credit

you for it.” It can’t be “Gee, can I afford to credit that this week?” It has to be a commitment to

straightforward honesty. And once you got that going for you, you can overcome any of the barriers. I

had a young man doing some security work around the house, and he was fibbing to me when he

would be here. Then he just wouldn’t show, and he called, that there was a car problem. Pretty soon I

pulled him aside and I said, “I really like you, I like what you do and I think you’re a talented guy. But




you need to get over this thing of telling me what I think to hear and basically lying to me, because I can

handle the truth.”

Travis: Right.

Kerry: And that kinds of remind me of that old movie right. “You can’t handle the truth.”

Travis: That’s right.

Kerry: “Tim please trust me, I can handle the truth and so can all your other customers. Tell them the

truth no matter how much it hurts just try and do that.” After a week, believe it or not after a week he

came back to me and he couldn’t be any happier. “I did exactly what you said and I am amazed they do

handle the truth very well when I say the parts won’t be here for two weeks. They say that’s too bad but

okay and then we’ll deal with that.”

Travis: Right.

Kerry: There was a major life changing thing that hopefully that Tim picked up and just not being the

typical service guy and tells people what they want to hear.

Travis: Do you realize the impact you made in that guy’s life because I personally know what that does.

You just set him on track and if he stays with it. You’ve set him on track for success. I love that you

went that direction. I have to tell you my own experience is some of my best clients are stuff that there

are people that we messed up on. So my first business was a home improvement business, and that

business is like hurting cats. I’ve got contractors, I’ve got redneck guys in construction out there dealing

very closely with the clients what they do and say silly things, right? I have had some of the biggest

catastrophes happen and they call me out. We had replaced all the siding on the house of a historic

home, and it was a beautiful house. The customers weren’t getting the service and attention that they

wanted from my manager. So they went over their head and called me out. When I pulled up, I was sick

to my stomach because I could see what the problem was immediately. They put sidings that were

slightly crooked and there is no adjusting it. And so it cost me, I think over $80,000 to replace that, so

I’d got out and I told them I’m sick to the stomach because I could see what the problem is. That the

siding is slightly off, then they said, “Well can you adjust it?” I was sick to the stomach, and I said, “No.”

And so, first I asked let me apologize, to bear with me and we’ll come back out and completely replace

it. Well that turned out, they were upset with me as they should have been. But it turned out to be a

client that knew that I stood behind everything that what we did. Now, was it that I figured out that I

could afford the $50,000, the $60,000, $80,000 whatever it cost me that time? No, it was just was what

needed to be done, and a lot of times customers would be more like a loyal client to you if you just

come out and tell them what’s happening and be straight with them. If something comes up tell them.




Kerry: Absolutely. I applaud every business person who stands by what they do, and what they do

includes the product they sell. If the manufacturer won’t stand by it, then you figure it out how you are

going to stand by it. Because otherwise everything you sell is worth nothing. I have a funny philosophy

on customer complaints. I love them. I value customer complaints above new customer leads even.

Because a customer complaint to me means, I did something wrong but he cared so much about our

relationship or being able to buy our product, be still the supplier that he took the trouble to complain.

And I mean to tell you, I swear I have turned every customer complaint into a better customer simply

because they care so much that they are willing to put themselves out there and say, “Look I am

unhappy.” When they’re not saying they’re unhappy is because they’re trying to beat you up. They’re

telling you that they want to be happy, and you have the ability to do that. All you have to do is take

care of whatever it is you did wrong.

Travis: Right.

Kerry: So I encourage people when you set up a complaint department, if you ever have to do that,

make it your best sales people because those are the customers who love you and don’t want you to

go away, but you have to fix their problem.

Travis: Right, brilliant. It gives you a chance to make it right. How about those people who won’t

complain to you? But they complain to everybody else and they just go away.

Kerry: Right.

Travis: That’s terrible.

Kerry: yeah.

Travis: That has a malicious feel to it almost, doesn’t it? Because they don’t give you a chance to fix it,

Kerry: Exactly, and God loves the ones that complain because they’re giving you the chance.

Travis: Right. So many people I think believe that because it wasn’t a perfect experience that the

customer is not going to love them anymore. And I really think, once they see you’re humanity and your

integrity they love you 10 times more.

Kerry: I agree with you. There are so many little experiences that you have in business and when

you’re talking to an old guy like me, you’re talking a long, long, time. I’ve had so many people give me

little pieces of advice that I’ve remembered and then eventually saw them come into play over, and

over, and over, and over in a successful environment. It’s just like there is no class in the world big

enough covering enough subject matter to prepare somebody to go in the business, I would encourage

that all possible people who go into business has established not a board of directors but a board of

advisors who can act as their board of directors and help them sometimes when they need it. They




don’t always need it. They’re probably very good doing what they do running their hobby store, or

providing art supplies, or whatever it is that they’re so good at. But periodically they need to sit down

with people who care about them and tell them straight up. “Here’s what I’m doing that working, here’s

what is not working, do you have any ideas for me.” We are not born experts in every subject in

business we need other peoples input and I really encourage people to seek out friends who will act as

your board of directors.

Travis: So tell me what that looks like, would it be a mastermind of five local business owners? That

agree to share best practices, and be candid with what they’re doing right, and what they’re doing

wrong. Or is it an actual board for Jet’s Hardware Company or a hardware store.

Kerry: No, I think you described it in the first one, you don’t necessarily want a board of directors you’re

a private entrepreneur you don’t need a board of directors.

Travis: Right.

Kerry: What you need are some very few and you just said it. A trusted 5 people maybe, who you can

sit down and be candid and know it’s secure, know that things you say are not going to get out of that

room, that things they say that won’t get out of that room, and you share the most intimate problems

that you are facing like an employee problem. You don’t want to end up firing your employee if you

don’t have to. Maybe they are very skilled but you just don’t know how to deal with them. But you can

bring that to your team of 5 friends. Who all will listen to you, and give you their opinion. I think that is

probably the most valuable thing you can do to be successful is have that behind you, that team behind

you available to give you input.

Travis: Great advice. And I think they shouldn’t be in your payroll. I think that should be one of the

requirements.

Kerry: I mean the most you should probably spend together is a cup of coffee.

Sandra: That’s so valuable Kerry because I feel as a business owner, it is easy to feel alone, it’s so

easy to feel like a failure, it’s a disaster to get out of it and to be with a group of people you meet for

lunch or meet for coffee, it’s just like, oh actually that failure could may be my best opportunity, or

feeling that I am not alone, that there is actually a group of people that actually care and there’s nothing

under the sun that someone else could have dealt with the same challenge and just to have that group

of people to trust and get that feedback. I mean that could make the biggest difference in the world for a

struggling business owner. So thanks for that.

Travis: I think it’s brilliant.




Kerry: There’s a few sayings that I wish that I had a book filled with them that you can hand a person.

But all these things can come down to advice somebody gave you one time or another, ask a friend or

visit with your father in law. He was in business, he probably already experienced that. It is important to

open yourself up, to listen to other people and let them share with you. People will help you; I mean

they will jump in to help you at a heartbeat if you ask, if you ask, but you got to ask.

Travis: I had something similar 15 -20 years ago, I was experiencing success in my business, and so I

could get away and play golf. And I played with a group of guys that were retired and so there were a

lots and lots and experience and wisdom there. And those guys would slowly feed it to me, and give me

the insight they’d laugh at my naiveness, get a chuckle out of some of my arrogance. Just this lack of

experience but the wisdom that they shared with me, that matured me was wow, was really, really

valuable.

Kerry: Yeah.

Travis: I wished I would have been more strategic about it, and really sit down. Because we weren’t

there to talk business we were there to play golf. I wished I would have been more strategic about it like

what you’re talking about. Schedule a set time with 3, 4, or 5 like minded business owners and we

dedicate an hour or two to talk about what our problems are, what the solutions are, and build it in a

way. Because that’s what Sandra and I do now, we mastermind and so when we link arms together we

can traverse large cracks and crevices in business and in life that we couldn’t on our own. And so she

brings skills that I don’t have, and I bring skills that she doesn’t have, and so it makes us so much more

powerful and as business owners, for some reason, we tend to not have friends because were so busy

doing our business. Is that the same case for you?

Kerry: Oh exactly, absolutely. We made a deal with the local pizza guy that we didn’t have to cut out

coupons anymore. I just got the best priced in pizza that he offered anybody. We would eat there 3

nights a week for this year and a half before we didn’t have any money. At the end of that year and a

half when we started to make money and I went to my pizza guy and this is probably pretty stupid but I

went to him and said. From this day forward, I want to pay you retail price for pizza, and we did for the

next 5 years. We still eat there still 3 nights a week and we always paid list price.

Travis: That’s your way of saying thank you.

Kerry: You’d better believe it.

Travis: Yes, and now we’re in the 55 minute mark. We are getting close to wrapping things up. We’ve

got about 3 more minutes. Sandra, you want to jump in?




Sandra: No, I’m just sitting here delighted that we got to spend this time together. What an

extraordinary conversation and Kerry you’ve been just such a gift for our listeners and for me it’s just

been really wonderful, so thank you.

Kerry: Well, thank you and if I can give you 1 pearl of wisdom that has stuck with me since I was

washing windows. This was the owner of the store in Minneapolis said this to me and I’ve never

forgotten it. It is the most valuable information I ever got. He ran a store against all the big guys, the

large chains that have the nice clear big aisles, everything is scientifically positioned. His stores which

he had 5 or 6 of them in Minneapolis, the aisles were crowded with piles of corn and peas, if you can

name it everything had a price tag that was hand written and hanging from the side of the box. It was

terrible, and his stores were so successful compared to anybody. The big company couldn’t compete

with the guy because he was just selling so much food. We did his house, and we were sitting out and

having lemonade it was, and I asked him why he was so successful? He said, “There’s one rule Kerry

that I’ve never forgotten. You can’t sell vegetables from an empty cart.” As insignificant as that seems, I

go in to a lot of businesses today that have an empty cart, and for that reason they fail. They don’t

invest or have the ability to continue to maintain their inventories so that when their customers come in

they can’t get what they want, and those words always resonated with me.

Travis: Hey Kerry, were going to put together later in the year or hopefully next year, were going to put

together a mastermind where we are going to bring a lot of the listeners to participate and we are going

to break up into groups in masterminding. And I know that you’re committed, and Sandra’s committed,

and I’m committed to helping business owners to that next level. I sure would like for you to come out

and be a part of that when the time comes.

Kerry: I’d be happy to be. Sure.

Travis: I’m glad to hear that. So when we had a date for that, we’ll let you know in advance. In that way

hopefully you could set aside time for us, and we can keep on focusing and helping these business

owners take their business and their life to the next level.

Kerry: I’d be happy to do it.

End of Interview




Travis: I love it, love it. Thanks for your time.

Sandra: I wanted to close though and thank you for your generous listening and spending your time

with Travis and I and again we are at TravisandSandra.com and be part of our community, and let us

make a difference with you.

Travis: Yeah we are going to have fun together.




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The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 004 Kerry Grimes

Small Business & Entrepreneurship