University rankings from Chula’s perspective - New Mandala 21 Feb 2011 with blog comments to 8 May...

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University rankings from Chulas perspective

February 21st, 2011 by Nicholas Farrelly 72 Comments

We categorise CU [Chulalongkorn University] as world-class in the national university division, not world-class in an internationaluniversity divisionSo, we wont spend a huge amount of money to import excellent foreign lecturers and recruit too many internationalstudents to reach a higher rank because doing so doesnt benefit the nationWe are in the same category as the University of Tokyo,Peking University and Seoul National University, which mainly serve local students. We look up to their benchmarks and we will see howwe can improve CU

- Chulalongkorn Universitys Vice President (Academic Affairs) MR Kalaya Tingsabadh , quoted in Chularat Saengpassa, Worldclass standards and boosting , The Nation , 21 February 2011.

Tags: Economics Education Thailand

72 responses so far

1Annymous // Feb 21, 2011 at 12:40 pm

Hmmm. Thai self-satisfaction at its best.

Perhaps CU would be better off and serve the nation better if it asked whether other people categorise it as a world-class university. Thatwould be a more significant verdict than whether or not CU believes itself to be world-class.

The Thai university system is riddled with cheating, bribery, buying graduations and the rest of it, all the ills of dishonesty and intellectuallaziness that pervade Thai society seen in microcosm. The best they seem to be able to do is produce stunningly mediocre graduates. Their lawyers are largely incompetent, their doctors are generally just plain ridiculous, and their engineers rely upon the Kings advice for their inspiration, and he didnt do so well in Switzerland as we know.

Mediocrity is about the only thing that Thailand really excels at, but that isnt how the Thais see it.

Highly rated. Quality comment or not? 52 14

2Arthurson // Feb 21, 2011 at 2:08 pm

What a typically Thai, farsical piece of wordplay! How can you describe yourself as world-class in a national sense but not in aninternational sense? That completely misses the definition of world-class! Furthermore, there is no way by any standard of scholarship(faculty publication record, number of international citations of journal articles by Chula faculty and students, number of Ph.D. programs, etc.)that Chulalongkorn University is in the same class as other prominent Asian universities, such as the University of Hong Kong, the NationalUniversity of Singapore, or the University of Tokyo. The sad fact is that the institution has been slipping in prestige for the last 30 years becauseit insists on playing by its own antiquated rules. On the other hand, Mahidol University has been expending a significant amount of time andenergy to raise its ranking with the international community and in 2010 was ranked 28th in Asia compared to Chulalongkorn Universitys rank of 44th(http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/asian-university-rankings/2010).

Quality comment or not? 34 5

3Peter // Feb 21, 2011 at 2:09 pm

The University of Miami in Florida, along with a thousand other ordinary hard-working unpretentious universities, are more world class thanChula University in its present sorry state of political regression and conformity, its staggering percentage of hi-so & students & faculty fromprivileged backgrounds, its focus on pretend to be great instead of really be great.


4Christoffer Larsson // Feb 21, 2011 at 3:44 pm

I recently spoke with a professor from the Royal Institute of Technology (KTH) in Sweden.

According to him, the exchange students they receive from Chulalongkorn University are consistently in the top 10% of their classes. The sameis true for students from many other Asian countries, though he did not have much good to say about students from Malaysia.


5Srithanonchai // Feb 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm

Recently, Maha Sarakham University had an advertisement in a Thai-language paper in which it also claimed to be a world classuniversity (they probably also meant the national rather than the international meaning of world class).


6Stuart // Feb 21, 2011 at 5:30 pm

This thread could do with some robust and verifiable evidence of Chulalongkorns international standing. While I suspect that the commentshere may well contain some truth, I also suspect theyre self-satisfactory stabs in the dark. Anybody have credible information?



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7Edward Moulton // Feb 21, 2011 at 11:09 pm

Perhaps the clearest evidence is the fact that any international university of true international atanding, rather than Thai (aka fake) standing, willnot even recognise a Chula or any other degree for further study. That says how highly they rank Thai universities


8Mr V // Feb 21, 2011 at 11:16 pm

True, I have seen also Mahidol producing good results. Good things to say about Mahidol graduates.


9chris beale // Feb 22, 2011 at 1:50 am

Im not given to praising the Thai elite, but some of these comments here s trike me as unduly harsh.It is well-known that some education systems eg. the British and Japanese (especially the Japanese) put hugely intense pressure on highschool students if they want to get into the best universities.But once they get there pressure lessens considerably (especially in the cases of Todai and Waseda) until all-important final exams. Theemphasis is on producing an elite which can highly perform under very extreme pressure like medical doctors are required to be able to,almost everywhere.Chula seems to follow this pattern. Its in contrast to the pattern of consistent, but not necessarily all-at-once pressure, which characterizes a lotof Australian and North American Universities.


10wildekimf // Feb 22, 2011 at 4:39 am

Many Chula students are very much informed. And most of them are not actually hi-so nokia 1 obsessed. S0meone should give them a voice.


11Karl Burnside // Feb 22, 2011 at 9:18 am

Edward Moulton,

Im not sure what you mean. I am pursuing a post-graduate degree at an international university of true international standing and there is atleast one Chula graduate here. The admissions process is quite rigorous and I assure you they wouldnt be here unless both their credentials andthe school from which they were issued were up to snuff. They may not be the worlds greatest but nor are they the worlds worst.

KB


12Tarrin // Feb 22, 2011 at 11:46 am

I think Chula follow the Japanese system more closely in this case, doesnt mean that Chula is on par with Todai. Chula is recruiting smart people no doubt because they are very tough to get in. However, after they get it, whether they actually any better education than other university such as Khon Kaen or Song Klar is debatable. Many of the teacher are part-time with little office hour for students. Some fleshlygraduated bachelor degree holder were allow to teach (very rare in US).

So my conclusion, are students from Chula smart and resourceful? Yes, Im sure they are, but does Chula offered any better educationcomparing to other university in the kingdom? I dont think so. Ive been working with many Chula graduate and I have to say they are veryresourceful. Yet, they lack initiative (not all, but most) not very assertive, and still rather immature (again, not all of them but most)


13Vichai N // Feb 22, 2011 at 12:11 pm

Maybe this could help: QS World University Rankings Results 2010

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings

Chula U was 180th in said ranking, University of Cambridge and Harvard U was first and second. Australian National University was highlyranked at 20th.


14Democ // Feb 22, 2011 at 1:39 pm

Of course , besides being a social club-finishing school for the dumb rich, CU has bright students with high potential BUT the higher learningthey receive, like other Thai universities, will be not learning how to think critically as global citizens, but rather becoming Thai, conformist,gaining a credential which has little value internationally



According to the Webometrics Ranking of World Universities, a product of the Cybermetrics Lab, a research group belonging to the ConsejoSuperior de Investigaciones Cient

ficas (CSIC), the largest public research body in SpainChulalongkorn University is ranked 418th in theworld, below the University of Alabama Birmingham and Kassel University in Germany, but slightly above Queensland University of

Technology and Southern Methodist University.http://www.webometrics.info/top12000.asp?offset=400

They use quantitative methods such as data mining techniques to evaluate indicators that allow us to measure the scientific activity on theWeb.


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Frankly, I would not be surprised if Chula doesnt continue to fall further down the list in the coming years because its technological andscientific productivity continues to lag behind the remainder of the world, most of Asia, and indeed, even Prince of Songkhla University, whichis ranked 324th!



@ Karl Burnside#11,Perhaps I can shed some light on what Edward Moulton meant. Recently a Mahidol University graduate in Engineering inquired what it wouldtake for him to be accepted into a graduate program at MIT, and he was informed that there was nothing he could do, based on hisundergraduate degree, that would qualify him for acceptance. All of the top tier universities in Thailand, with only a few exceptional programs

here and there, are shortchanging those Thai students with the highest potential for world class excellence by providing them mediocre training.Quality comment or not? 7 2

17chris beale // Feb 23, 2011 at 1:30 am

Tarrin#12 yes : good points.But the resources (mostly) are better at Chula than anywhere else.


18Tarrin // Feb 23, 2011 at 9:57 am

chris beale- 17

Not necessary, Mahidol Medical School actually has a much better medical facility than Chula and Lard Kra Bang boast best engineer faculty inSEA.


19Pete // Feb 23, 2011 at 7:33 pm

Chris beale,

Im sorry to burst the chula bubble, but as tarrin stated, Mahidols resources are generally superior. More importantly, Mahidol has much moremoney and the funding for research projects is accordingly much higher.


20chris beale // Feb 23, 2011 at 10:37 pm

Pete# 19 :as tarrin stated, Mahidols resources are generally superior.Thats not actually what Tarrin said.He simply praised Mahidols undoubtedly superior medical facilities- with a name like that, who would nt ?


21Alex // Feb 28, 2011 at 4:11 pm

Chula a world class university?..has anyone from Chula ever spent any time at a real world class university like MIT?

Where not one single student is there because he is from a rich family, from a family with a royal connection, or from a family with aname.

Where over 50 percent of the students (and/or their parents) were not even born in the U.S. but are cultural newcomers/outsiders, in residenceat MIT purely on the basis of their hardwork, focus, amibition and intelligence..

Where students are accepted from every country on earth regardless of their financial means, solely on the basis of their prior academic andother performance, ie., full and partial scholarships offered to any student who passes the rigorous needs blind admission process, with thenecessary funds provided regardless of what country the student might be a citizen of, regardless of gender, skin tone, economic station, etc.

20 or 30 Nobel Prize laureates on the faculty, endless research labs, libraries, facilities, fiercely competitive courses, every student challengedand expected to perform, otherwise no graduation/degree.

Chula a world class university?..only in the Thai world of pretend


22HRK // Feb 28, 2011 at 8:34 pm

Is there anywhere a world class university? Certainly a university charging rather substantial fees has to market itself. World class university issuch a marketing gimmick, and as other trademarks copied. The best marketing is through rankings, which dont say much. To have auniversity which is excellent in all areas would be impossible to find, as there are always certain specifications.I noticed another aspect related to world class universities that charge high fees. Several times I met someone who got a higher degree (MA,Ph.D.) from a reknown world class university using englisch as language of instruction. While talking with the person I was rather surprisedabout the language skills. Can it be that someone might prepare a Ph.D. but is more or less unable to have a conversation in the language thethesis was written in? It seems that for quite a few the degree exhibited in the hall of frames provides symbolic power unrelated to anyscientific interest or competence.


23Anonymous as usual // Mar 6, 2011 at 1:31 pm

I agree with wildekimf. CU is a big academic community in Thailand and we should not simply stereotype CU as an elite group.


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BTW, how can NM miss this? It is a recent seminar organized by Faculty of Political Science, CU.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMm2JP_hQS8This can be a counterexample for those who believe in elite CU.


24Anonymous // Mar 13, 2011 at 9:13 pm

The quoted comments of the VP were undoubteldy a misguided marketing blunder, bordering on xenophobic. Chulas many talented anddedicated ajarns and students from overseas, who contribute to the universitys work and international standing, deserve more respect.

The comments are all the more extraordinary coming from a linguist, from whom one might reasonably expect a more enlightened perspectivethan more closeted academics without her own considerable linkages to the international academic community.

Perhaps what explains Chulas downward spiral in the global rankings is how Chula walks the talk in terms of upholding academic standards.For example, its zero tolerance to plagiarism. Ahem, scuse me!!?

Last year a plagiarism scandal erupted when an ex-Chula student who happened to be an official at the Ministry of Science and Technology-was found by an internal investigation to have plagiarized his PhD thesis in large measure. A year later, his degree and job still remain intact.Message: Plagiarize with impunity. Caveat: If you have influence.

Witness the recent Dr Googleberg scandal in Germany, in which the charismatic Defence Minister, Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg was found tohave plagiarized his PhD thesis. His university revoked his degree within weeks, forcing his resignation.

Chulas failure to do likewise is a slap in the face to all honest students who slave away to earn their degree. It is a slap in the face to all honestacademics who work hard to contribute to the universitys intellectual output and international standing. And it is a slap in the face to Thailand,eroding as it does the credibility of any kind of degree from any institute of higher learning in the Kingdom.

When will Chula wake up and realize that if it aspires to global standards, it must embrace them, abide by them and be prepared to be judged bythem?


25NativeThai // Apr 14, 2011 at 2:04 am

To say that a degree from Chulalongkorn is worthless and unrecognized by other countries is an absurd exaggeration.

I personally know many graduates from Chulalongkorn who have later furthered their study at Harvard, Stanford, MIT and many other world-class universities. Would these universities accept them if degrees from Chulalongkorn are so lacking?

Several professors at Chulalongkorns Medical School, for instance, received their training from Massachusetts General Hospital (teachinghospital of Harvard and arguably the best teaching hospital in the US) and Mayo Clinic. As a matter of fact, most of the faculty atChulalongkorns Medical School received their post-doctoral training abroad. Google can enlighten you a lot on this.

Theres room for improvement for Chulalongkorn, definitely. Its a great university that can be even greater, in my opinion. But I have a hardtime seeing it as a mediocre institution by any means.

Know thy story before bashing, people.


26Javier // May 7, 2011 at 2:51 am

I have studied and worked at about 5 or 6 universities in total, in USA, UK, Spain and now Thailand. I am not a great scholar myself butcertainly know a few good ones. I do see issues at Chula, but I can tell you this much, there are good s tudents there. There are good professorsthere.

In all unis some students finish just for the sake of passing through Uni with no Uni culture passing through them.

That is how it is, yes. However, that happens all over. No just in Chula or Thailand. When people ask if anybody fails in Thai universities, Iinvite them to check how many get low grades or even fail in British institutions. How hard a degree is, or the university ranking, is subjectspecific, particularly at graduate level. Actually, the only one where I failed courses or got low grades, so far, was in Spain.

Chula however could push a bit more. Students could take it. No idea why professors do not push harder.

In Thailand people, in general, do not confront others who they think have greater power than them. Furthermore, often, not always, priority isto avoid any complication, even if that means sacrificing progress, which nevertheless is highly subjective.

In my case, since I have no power, I do not stand a chance; moreover, when there is a huge language and culture barrier. If one speaks goodThai, it might be different, I guess.

Have you heard about Tilburg Uni? Me neither, ranking 50o or so in a random website I just found. However, no necessarily a bad Uni. Bestspecialist university in The Netherlands, in Elsevierss Higher Education Review 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 and top 10 in Europe in Shanghairanking.

My point is that there are many universities out there and we just happen to know very few, basically those we heard about in the movies.

I smiled when I heard the world-class comment, but I just think it was an unfortunate comment. Remember, education means business, business is image and Thailand is a lot about that. Isnt Harvard about that too.

RegardsJavier


27nattavud pimpa // May 7, 2011 at 10:36 am


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To Alex,

To answer to your question

your question: Chula a world class university?..has anyone from Chula ever spent any time at a real world class university like MIT?

My response: Open your eyes and use a simple instrument called GOOGLE you will find more information. An example is Dr. AtiwongSuchato, Ph.D.(M.I.T.) from the engineering faculty.

OK?

Your question: Where not one single student is there because he is from a rich family, from a family with a royal connection, or from a familywith a name.

My point: Really? Do you think those who go to MIT or other world class university? I suggest you to read a book called The EntrepriseUniversity by Prof. Simon Marginson and come back for a debate with me.


28Bob Parsons // Sep 20, 2011 at 11:05 am

Sorry guys but I have to agree with the Chula bashers here

More accurately, the Thai bashers here.

I have travelled the world on and off and stopped off the merry-go-round very often to see the education standards and I really do have to saythat in Thailand zero (out of ten) really isnt a low enough score for either achievement or effort .

Chula sends forth grads that struggle to calculate 50% of 100 (I kid you not) and then there is the introverted, typically Thai xenophobic breeding that leads to a fear of any real International learning (mobile phones or trendy gadgets excepted) so that a daily walk around centralBangkok sees many, many students (dressed as schoolgirls or boys of course) with no sense of commitment to class or learning.

For all those championing the Chula/Thai cause, please show me any other country with such lack of commitment!


29Somchai // Mar 9, 2012 at 2:17 pm

U.S. News just came out with its rankings of the top 400 universities in the world. Is Chula even on the list? Will the people at Chula even care.Or are they focused on the dress code issue and making sure no faculty are writing or teaching negative or critical histories of people whocannot be discussed?

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world


30 jonfernquest // Mar 9, 2012 at 5:06 pm

What is truly laughable in this whole thread is all the people obsessing about prestige and ranking and not giving one hoot about theresearch that makes a university into one of the best universities. Simply pitiful.

The only thing that matters in my mind is that Chula opens its libraries to everyone, so anyone who wants to educate themselves , Thai or foreigner, can do it. Three cheers for Chulalongkorn, a guiding beacon in Thai education !


31nganadeeleg // Mar 12, 2012 at 12:46 pm

Kudos to Chula (and partners) for holding this seminar http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3097http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MCAHEN4Jd3Mhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H721zVo9A0I(remember to change the speaker sound channel balance before listening, to avoid getting a headache


32Arthurson // Mar 12, 2012 at 1:31 pm

I checked, and Chula U is indeed on the list. Its worldwide ranking is #171 with an overall score of 50.7 (out of 100 points). Its academicreputation score is 82.2, and its employer reputation score is 55.9.

Mahidol U is ranked at #229 worldwide. Its overall score is 43.1 and its academic reputation score is only 53.2. It has no data on employer reputation, but it does have a favorable 84.5 score on the ratio of students to faculty members. There is no data for either university on scores for international faculty, international students, or the number of academic citations per faculty member.

IMHO, if there were data available on these last 3 categories, I believe that Mahidol would rise in the rankings relative to Chula, but bothuniversities would fall in overall rankings as a result.


33Nuradek // Mar 16, 2012 at 1:53 am

Interesting list of best universities in Asia from the UK Times:http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/asia.html

University of Tokyo #1

University of Hong Kong #2


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National University of Singapore #3

Mahidol University Thailand a ways down the list.

Many other universities from China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, a few more from Hong Kong and Singapore. A few from Turkey, Iran, Israel.

Chula not on the list at all.


34The Strategist // Mar 25, 2012 at 1:33 am

In most educational fields, Chulalongkorn Univ undergraduate students have gotten very high entrance examination scores. This can also beapplied to other few top Thailands universities. But Chulalongkorn Univ is the oldest university and surrounded by business areas, luxuryshopping malls, and modern train systems.

To get into these top Thailands universities, ones must study very hard. Unfortunately, most of Thai high school students have to go to tutoringschools to ensure to get high university entrance examination scores. They have to study too much that may destroy their creativities and self-learning motivations. More than 3 decades ago, when I was a high school student in a top school, I was in a minority (5%, perhaps) who did notattend any tutoring school. Fortunately, I could get into a medical school that I wanted (because they taught Physics and Mathematics more thanChulalonkorn Univ did).

To tell you the truth, a university instructor of a top university (perhaps, this applies to Chulalongkorn Univs instructor also) who has justearned his PhD from a top-10 US university in engineering earns 15,000 Baht (US$500) per month, while a 3-bedroom house in suburb areascosts 4,000,000-7,000,000 Baht (US$140,000-240,000). Well, you can explain the phenomena in Thailand now.


35Alamanach // Mar 29, 2012 at 7:01 pm

It can help to draw some important distinctions. First, are we talking undergraduate education or post-graduate? The dean (or perhaps it was the president in any case, some top muckety-muck) of a certain prestigious school that always seems to rank #1 in the world on all these lists onceadmittedly, in a veiled way, that if you wanted to attend one of his universitys graduate schools, youd probably be better off if you go get your undergraduate degree somewhere else because their undergraduate program actually wasnt all that great. So in the case of Chula, which levelof education are we talking about?

The second distinction is between the student and the school. A smart, motivated student at a weak school will come away with a far better education than will a lazy student at a great school. A great school cant save a bad student.

Ive been to Northwestern, Ive been to University of Chicago, Ive been to some more obscure schools, and right now Im getting a mastersdegree at Chula in Southeast Asian Studies. Of the schools Ive attended, I rank this place second only to U of C. The professors here are peoplewith things to say worth listening to (though some of them could work in their speaking skills), the assigned readings are top-notch, the variousassignments are excellent, and they do an incredible job of exploiting their geographical advantage. (Theres nothing like doing area studiesinside the area of interest.) Ive met academics in this same field from other universities, and I wouldnt trade my education for theirs for anything. Students at Cornell get to read about Angkor Wat; I went there one weekend and did o riginal research. Its an insurmountableadvantage.

Chula also, more than any other school I know, opens all kinds of opportunities for its students. One of my term papers is getting published nextyear, another was presented at an international conference this year, and a third is going to be forwarded to, among other people, the currentASEAN Secretary General, because it contains analysis hes going to want to read. If I wasnt at Chula, these things wouldnt be happening.

Many of the Chula undergrads may be hopelessly lazy due to their privileged social positions (or then again, maybe thats just a groundlessstereotype), but a person can get an absolutely first-rate education here. If you come here, either as a student or as an international professor (of which they do, in fact, have several), take this place seriously and work hard.


36Srithanonchai // Mar 30, 2012 at 11:18 am

Some years back, I taught in the program for one term, and had to listen to the complaints of the students about how the program was run, lack of preparation and proper knowledge on (some of) the lecturers , etc. Maybe, they have improved since then.


37Xeralf // Mar 30, 2012 at 9:19 pm

Alamanach, I am sure you are right, at least to some extent, I am afraid, however, that you are also showing some symptoms of a verycontagious and common malady particularly prevalent in Thailand. It is called so good so good.


38Jules // Apr 5, 2012 at 9:24 pm

Actually all the international rankings are a matter of marketing. Other than the top schools like Harvard and MIT and the rest at the top who,regardless of their ranking would churn out great stuff anyway, the others are all just playing a game to get more international students and

publish more stuff.

Every university has its good and bad. Look, Bush went to Yale, and I personally know someone who cannot even understand management whohas a doctorate from Harvard.

What matters at the end of the day is the students attitude and the opportunities open to the student, which I thought was well-described byAlamanach.

I have to agree that Asian universities in general, tend to not want you to think too radically and want you to follow trends or your supervisorsresearch instead, so it is not only Chula that is like that. Try studying in Singapore.

Chula is not that great, definitely. But it is not that bad as well.


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39Shane Tarr // Apr 6, 2012 at 9:38 pm

I dont think Thai universities, including Chula, are very good in the humanities and social sciences although there are some faculty staff thatare very good but the same could be said for universities in the Philippines and definitively in neighboring countries such as Malaysia andVietnam. Moreover, I think it is a bit pretentious of Chula to compare itself to the University of Peking but universiites like any other entity tryand project a positive image of themselves so I suppose this is not surprising.

However, some universities are very good in the health sciences, agriculture and water resource development (these graduates cannot be blamedentirely for last years mismanagement of Thai floods) and almost all branches of engineering. Good Thai medical doctors and dentists areexcellent as indeed are Thai nurses. Give me an average Thai trained engineer in at least civil engineering any day before one from India or

Vietnam or indeed Australia. And in the field of agriculture (especially agronomy and agri-business) some Thai universities do an excellent job.This might not be reflected in the rankings that appear somewhat biased towards the humanities and the social sciences but I for oen wouldwillingly invest in an education in the fields I have mentioned above at a Thai university based on my professional experience working withsuch graduates. I dont think I would waste my time or money in the humanities and social sciences although for Thai language studies and finearts and music that would be different. But then again I am not sure whether I would invest in an education at internationally-ranked univesitiesunless they were a Yale or Oxford (well okay the ANU does quite well) either.


40Josef // Apr 20, 2012 at 6:16 pm

Investigative reporter Andrew Drummond has just published a scathing piece on Chulas refusal to void the Chula Ph.D. awarded to SupachaiLorlowhakarn, now Director of the Thailands National Innovation Agency.

Apparently Supachi plagiarised 80% of his thesis from a Ph.D. thesis previously published by a Dr Lorlowhakarn.

While Chula has been aware of this problem for several years and has in fact confirmed that Supachi indeed did plagiarise 80% of the Ph.D.thesis, Chula has inexplicably refused to void Supachis Ph.D. degree as fraudulent and unethical, etc.

Needless to say, Supachi has also not been fired from his high level position at the National Innovation Agency. Such is the sorry state of Chulaand Thailand academic credentials.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=537


41An ajarn // Apr 20, 2012 at 8:52 pm

These top universities ranking sites arent terribly convincing, and this over-emphasis on rankings is a bit, well, rankling. Chula is good *inwhat* and poor *in what*? There are some departments that do quite a good job of putting together good, insightful conferences, and there arequite a few twits who come out with a Chula degree. Its the same at any top university (as the example of Bush indicates) privileged kids getaway with murder (sometimes literally).

But this (xenophobic) focus on being world or national strikes a personal note. I applied for a job at Chula at an unnamed department (Imalso anonymous for that reason here, as I dont want to embarrass anyone). One younger faculty member was excited by my application, but her department head wasnt. I sat down with both of them. Heres the conversation between the head and myself:

H: Well, we dont think well take you. We teach in Thai and need someone who speaks Thai.Me: I speak Thai. We are speaking Thai right now.H: Well, yes, you can speak Thai. But the students will be writing in Thai. We need someone who reads Thai.Me: I read Thai. I did much of my research in Thai language. Ive given academic talks in Thai.H: Ok. But its not just a matter of the language. I dont think youd be satisfied with the salary here. Its [here, he cites a number which myfellow Chula professor friends claim is bunk. I forget the actual figure, but it was around 12,000 - 18,000 baht/month].

I said I was still interested, and we parted amicably, but I was later told that the head just didnt want to hire a foreigner. I dont know whythat was, but the VPs comment strikes me as being largely the same sort of sentiment. The idea is that Chula will be equal to other universities,

but somehow separate.


42shanetarr // Apr 21, 2012 at 12:56 pmAn Ajarnwonderful but not surprising ditty. However, I can asssure you this is not unique to Thai universities. A friend of mine long agoapplied for a job in an Australian university better not mention its name and was told he was short-listed for the job but not the departments

preferred choice: indeed he was the most lowly ranked of the short-listed. This person inquired about the weather the day of the interview andwas told it was a lovely spring day of 18C (no its not ANU) so he decided he would rather go surfing than being interviewed. Subsequently hesecured a postion at Oxford. So Ajarn I would not worry too much if Chula rejected you!!!!!!!!!!


43An ajarn // Apr 21, 2012 at 2:50 pm

@shanetarr

Thanks for the support! No worries on the career front, Im doing fine there (if I may be a bit hypocritical vis-a-vis my criticism of rankings, Imat a place which outranks Chulalongkorn on the above rankings). My point about Chula was more that there was this split: younger faculty (itseemed) wanted something more international, seeking recruits with a non-Thai academic background who were nonetheless interested in

working in Thailand. Older faculty were skeptical or suspicious of such folks, and wanted instead for Chula to expand and increase its rankingswithout all that pesky foreign stuff creeping in.

Rather like Thai-Style Democracy, come to think of it.


44Ralph Kramden // Apr 21, 2012 at 7:36 pm


6/5/2012 22:17:57 PM


9/13

Not much surfing at Oxford.


45Srithanonchai // Apr 22, 2012 at 4:30 pm

#43

Guess the department head already had somebody from her phak phuak in mind for the position


46Sijan // May 1, 2012 at 2:31 am

Regarding the fraudulent plagiarized Ph.D thesis submitted by Supachai Lorlowhakarn, (at present still the Director of the Thailands NationalInnovation Agency), which was accepted and is astonishingly still recognized by Chula, the TIMES HIGHER EDUCATION published anarticle about this shocking and shameful situation on April 19, 2012:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=419680&c=1

Also another piece by Tom Touhy published on April 30, 2012, in the link below:

http://ramblingsofanurbancrazyman.blogspot.com/2012/04/when-it-looks-like-duck.html

It seems clear that if Chula does not at the very least rescind Supachai Lorlowhakarns Ph.D., it not only undermines their own rapidlydwindling credibility as a legitimate university but also degrades the credentials of all the other scholars who have been granted Ph.Ds byChula.


47Acharn // May 1, 2012 at 5:44 pm

Prof Suchada Kirananda, President of Chula University Council: So, in your new post, why the deafening silence? I stand to be corrected, but asfar aas I am aware this is the biggest and most disturbing academic fraud scandal ever to hit Chula, and you have nothing to say?

Because the university failed to take the complaint seriously from the start, the case now threatens not just Chulas own coveted global rankings, but also the reputation of Thailands educational system. Does the Little Tyrant of NIA hold such an evil grip of influence over you that youcower in his presence?

So, Prof Suchada, for the sake of Thailand, and out of respect and love for the learned H.M. King Rama V who founded this noble university revoke this fraudulent degree now, or tell us why not.


48Ralph Kramden // May 1, 2012 at 9:12 pm

Rather than revoking it to honor a dead king, how about doing it because academic honesty demands it?


49Jon Wright // May 2, 2012 at 1:51 pm

How connected is the Little Tyrant? I read that he is the son of a printer. How reluctant would Chulas stance be in the absence of Supachaismore vexatious (litigation, Wyn Ellis getting a brick through his car window) contributions to the debate? I mean are they just extremely

backward at going forward or are they scared or are they deeply involved in the whole mess?

BTW Pavin Chachavalpongpun, an occasional NM contributor, is a Chula grad.



I found a bio of Supachai Lorlowhakarn in The Nation. Basic info summarized here:

Supachai gained a masters degree in biological science from Chulalongkorn University then spent ten years working for ICI Asiatic.

He got his big break under Yongyuth Yuthavong (got his PhD from Oxford). Yongyuth was the first president of the National Science andTechnology Development Agency (1992-1998) and served as the minister of science and technology (2006-2008). In 1994 he left ICI to becomea government officer at NSTDA. He oversaw the Public Information Department.

In 2000 he was involved in setting up the Innovation Development Fund. The IDF became the NIA in 2003 and Supachai was the director. Over the first three years the NIA disbursed Bt176.2 million to 162 projects.

(an adviser at Chula had received NIA funding for research on a breast growth product he tutored Supachai for his PhD.)

Does anyone read fund without alarm bells ringing? Interesting that fella Yongyuth had faith in him, the article probably overstates this hewas minster when the article was written. The interesting thing is how in those six years he jumped from the news side to the money side.


51 jonfernquest // May 2, 2012 at 6:53 pm

Jon Wright: I found a bio of Supachai Lorlowhakarn in The Nation. Basic info summarized here

Great background info, like the Brooker guide to Thai business groups or Pasuk & Bakers Thai Capital, gives you a glimpse under the hood atthe social network dimension (patron-client chains) that people rarely talk about.


6/5/2012 22:17:57 PM


10/13

The obvious next question is how concentrated power is among those responsible for funding science research and the possible negativeconsequences. For example, are personal relationships and social obligations rather than merit guiding funding decisions? Which in turnraises the question of how it all works in countries with effective science research funding mechanisms . Youve peaked my interest. Thanks


52Astrid // May 2, 2012 at 7:50 pm

Yes, it is very curious as to what leverage Supachi holds in his back pocket to prevent Chula from rescinding his fraudulent plagiarisedPh.D.

Perhaps he has knowledge of other fraudulent Ph.Ds granted/issued by Chula. Surely his is not the sole fraudulent degree from Chula. But howmany are there? Two? Ten? One hundred? More? One percent? Five percent? Ten percent?

And how does this case impact all those who hold Chula graduate degrees who actually did the work and earned their degrees?

How is a potential employer to judge whether the degree they were awarded from Chula is real or pretend?


53shanetarr // May 2, 2012 at 8:14 pm

Ah how about the University of Khao San Road?????

I believe one can apply to have a PhD in any discipline from any university in the world for a small fee Build Bright University in PhnomPenh might be a start!!!!!!)



jonfernquest: how concentrated power is among those responsible for funding science research

From Supachais CV: Advisory Board Member, M.Sc. and Ph.D. Programme on Technopreneur and Innovation Management, ChulalongkornUniversity; Former Managing Director, ScienceAsia* Journal of the Science Society of Thailand

CV is here:http://www.nia.or.th/2009/download/aboutus/CV_NIA_Director_Eng.pdf

* The journal was renamed ScienceAsia in 1999

Something to note on that CV he got a MSc from Chula but no mention of a BSc. He got the MSc when he was 25 (he was born ~1959).

Astrid: Yes, it is very curious as to what leverage Supachi holds

I think its a matter of collateral damage. Check out the NIA website and brochures theyre all plastered with images of asparagus. Its almost

their logo:

http://www.nia.or.th/en/index.php?page=program_organichttp://www.nia.or.th/organic/supported.phpcheck all the reports here:http://www.nia.or.th/en/index.php?page=aboutus_report

Note that nothing new has appeared on the NIA website since 2010. The above CV was last updated in Nov 2010. Erica Fry escaped fromThailand in July 2010. In the intervening period the courts have decided against him. Could it be that our Supachai is in some kind of frozentorpor? NIA might have to be disbanded and Supachai packed off. Too young for the Privy Council yet?

Oh, last thing: for the period 2006-2010 (Supachai got his PhD in 2008) NIA support was to the tune of Bt492.9 million, spread over 520 projects.


55tukkae // May 3, 2012 at 6:14 am

There was a young female Bangkok Post journalist from the US stumbling across the story of the NIA directors fake thesis.

Erika Fry was even imprisoned for a few days when this guy sued her about her investigative report pubished by the Bangkok Post, but shemanaged to flee the county last year before things got worse. Moral and legal Support by her employer was obviously less than impressive.

Searching for her name on google, it looks like she got now a less risky job as a journalist at home (US).


56Jon Wright // May 3, 2012 at 10:47 am

> Erika Fry was even imprisoned for a few days

a few hours

> she managed to flee the county last year

July 2010


57Jon Wright // May 3, 2012 at 11:47 am

Arthurson: According to the Webometrics Ranking of World Universities, Chulalongkorn University is ranked 418th in the world


6/5/2012 22:17:57 PM


11/13

Now 173rdhttp://www.webometrics.info/top100_continent.asp?cont=asiaThat list now shows several Thai universities in a favourable light Kasetsart is 140th and Mahidol is 202nd.

In the QS list Chula is now ranked 171, Mahidol 229 (just below RMIT).


58NIA Watcher // May 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm

Check out NIAs Annual Reports. They claim that from 2006 to 2009 NIA gave 392.9 million Baht in financial support to private companies,stimulating corporate investment in innovative businesses of over 9.1 billion baht, i.e. 18 Baht for every baht invested by NIA across its whole

portfolio (Ahem!!!!). Moreover, almost every single project seems to have achieved this eyebrow-raising IRR. If anyone believes this BS, Idlove to know what pills youre on

But I suppose the Secretary General of the Budget Bureau, who sits on NIAs Board, has no problem with the claims.

And to Jon Wright-

From Supachais CV: Advisory Board Member, M.Sc. and Ph.D. Programme on Technopreneur and Innovation Management, ChulalongkornUniversity

Evidently Chula holds Supachais qualities in high esteem, having appointed him to this position even in the midst of this rumpus, and eventhough 2 years ago, when Matichon reported the outcome of Chulas investigation, he accused Chulas top executives in the media of dishonestintentions against him. Gotta give it to him for sheer chutzpah!

Anyone else know anything about his BSc? Funny his Thai cv just says he graduated from the Faculty of Science, Chula, but the Englishversion doesnt mention his first degree. Worth a peep, Id say.



I hope somebody can fill in the missing info on Supachais BSc.

In the meantime check out ScienceAsia. It started out in 1975 as the Journal of the Science Society of Thailand Yongyuth Yuthavong was thefirst editor he did ten years. He came back for another spell in 1999-2000, renaming it ScienceAsia, and appointing our man Supachai asManaging Editor note this is exactly the same time as Supachai is moving over to the funding business.

In 2001 Yongyuth moved over to the editorial board and Supachai got a helping hand as managing editor in the shape of SoontareeBenjavongkulchai. Supachai retained this position until 2006 while Yongyuth hung around until 2009 just after ending his stint as Minister of Science and Technology.

Supachai should have been starting his Phd around 2005, as it was supposed to be a three-year, full-time, course. So here we have him doinghis PhD work, handing out grants on behalf of NIA to his tutor, and at the same time deciding which other researchers papers get published.Two supposedly full-time jobs in addition to his selfless endeavours for ScienceAsia!

Oh note ScienceAsias description of Supachais managing editor role: One Managing Editor, Dr. Soontaree Benjavongkulchai, handlesmanuscript processing, and the other Managing Editor, Mr. Supachai Lorlowhakarn, currently the Director of the National Innovation Agency,deals with lay-out and printing. . Quite laughable.

One last thing: Its interesting to see how in 2008 when Worachart Sirawaraporn took over as editor (and Supachai got his PhD) thatScienceAsia became totally dominated by Mahidol guys Editor, ASsociate Editors, Assistant Editors, Advisory Board all Mahidol. At one

point there was just a solitary Chula representetive serving on the Editorial Board (with 19 others).


60Suriyon Raiwa // May 3, 2012 at 5:35 pm

I dont know Aj Kalaya or have any understanding of the views that actually underlie her comments. What I will say is that she is making whatit is in general terms a valid and important point. The trendy internationalization of education can undercut universities ability to educatestudents to understand their own countries. Some faculties and departments of Chula clearly have deep problems. But to confuse these problemswith some need for Chula to be inter is a big mistake. Think about it: a thoroughly inter Chula would produce graduates with as little graspof their own society as Boris Johnsons Eton and Oxford pal Mark Vedge.

The understanding of Thailand cultivated at Thai universities is, to be sure, a matter to be debated. But let these universities remain committedto cultivating such an understanding rather than offering students the shallow exposure to the Anglo-American world that typifiesinternational education.


61Andrew Johnson // May 3, 2012 at 7:48 pm

@Suriyon Raiwa

I wonder if youre confusing international with elite. I might argue:

1) Do graduates of non-inter Thai universities naturally emerge with a better understanding of Thailand? Im not talking about the excellentscholars that Thai universities have produced (e.g. Aj. Pavin), but the great mass of Thai university graduates shuffling around Paragon andCentral Zen. One could argue that the education simply seals off the boundaries of Thailands elite bubble, rather than prompting them tounderstand their own country.

Inter universities do often produce upper-class twits with little to no intellectual value (I think of George W Bush here, but we could point atmany other Ivy League or Oxford grads in this camp). But, even just within Thai studies, it is the places with strong international programslike ANU, Cornell, Kyoto, NUS, Columbia, Wisconsin, et cetera, which have best helped both Thais and foreigners understand Thailand.


6/5/2012 22:17:57 PM


12/13

2) Bringing universities up to inter status often means emphasizing things like independent thought and critical inquiry, especially when itmeans challenging assumed notions. You might argue that there is a fundamental clash between critical thought which questions authority andThainess (e.g. the old saying the disciple cannot think above the teacher), but I (and many Thais) would disagree.

Exposure to outside ideas may not, in Aj Kalayas view, help the nation, if by nation one means simply peace or unity. But this is adead-end way of thinking, and one which is going to doom Chula into irrelevance, parochialism, and blind nationalism if pursued too far.



On his Thai CV, Supachai seems to lie about the duration of his tenure as managing editor at ScienceAsia. He seems to want to leave out the

time he held the position alone Id be willing to speculate on his reasons for this omission.Oh he has another vehicle for getting his hands grubby Stang Holding. Quote: a private venture capital management firm established on

December 22, 2004, is a joint venture between Mahidol University, Small and Medium Enterprise Development Bank of Thailand (SME Bank)and The National Innovation Agency (NIA). Stang Holding focuses on supporting scientific researches, and science & technologydevelopments .


63Uphill Gardener // May 6, 2012 at 12:58 am

Has anyone seen Little Ts thesis on organic agriculture at the National Defence College? I wonder whether NDC might be the source of hisinfluence?

The paralysis at NIA extends way beyond its website. The NIA Board Chairman post is still vacant after Kosit Panpiemras resigned a year ago.Pornchai Rujiprapa (Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Science) is still keeping the seat warm, but so far no takers.

Amazingly, he and NIAs board seem happy for NIA to be represented by someone embroiled in deep scandal and criminal cases. Innovationagencies and Science Ministries around he world must be chuckling to themseleves at Thailands self-delusion and thick-skinned ineptitude.Why cant Pornchai just end this embarrassment?


64Ook Bai // May 6, 2012 at 1:02 am

I teach at Chula and was not surprised to read about all the hanky-panky allegations about Supachai Lorlowhakarn. The case is an open secret,and we are waiting for the University Council to do something as it has damaged our reputation.

So, why is he so shy about his degree? On checking, I puzzled to find that there was no record of him getting his B.Sc. from the Faculty of Science, as his CV says. I therefore checked his other listed positions at Chula.

1. Advisory Board Member, M.Sc. and Ph.D. Programme on Technopreneur and Innovation Management, Chulalongkorn University. Thisappears to be true.

2. Guest Lecturer, Technology and Energy Management Programme, Energy Research Institute,Chulalongkorn University.The Energy Research Institute has no record that Supachai Lorlowhakarn was ever appointed in this role.

We have seen several recent cases where false claims have resulted in resignations as well as police action. So Chulalongkorn has a duty toinvestigate, and we are all sad that it seems to be so slow, and throwing its reputation away.


65Igor // May 14, 2012 at 2:32 pm

Despite the recent wave of publicity regarding Dr. Supachai Lorlowhakarns fraudulent Chula-issued Ph.D., it appears that Supachi is still theHead of Thailands National Innovation Agency and still holds his pretend plagiarized Chula Ph.D

I think the broader implications are getting more clear by the day. Chula has probably issued not only one pretend Ph.D but many, maybehundreds, maybe thousands. And there are probably people on the Chula faculty and in the Chula administration who themselves holdfraudulent Ph.D.s, either stolen, plagiarized or purchased/commissioned.

If they were to rescind Supachi Lorlowhakarns Ph.D., either Supachi or someone else has likely threatened to open up the whole can of wormswhich would totally undermine whatever standing Chula and the holders of Chula Ph.D.s still have throughout the international academicworld.



More regarding the journal ScienceAsia: Supachais PhD paper, Establishment of Thailands National Organic Agriculture Strategies: A CaseStudy in Organic Asparagus Production, was signed off by Supot Hannongbua. Who is he? Well, he was on the ScienceAsia editorial boardfrom 2001 to 2008. Siriwat Wongsiri, Sirirat Rengpipat and Christophe Le Page also signed the paper. Siriwat Wongsiri? Also on theScienceAsia editorial board from 2001 to 2008. (As I mentioned above, ScienceAsia cleared out all traces of Chula in 2008.) So apart from thechair person, Nantana Gajaseni, only Sirirat Rengpipat and Christophe Le Page could be considered independent I wonder if Christophe isaware of the scandal?


67Juan Carlos // May 14, 2012 at 6:42 pm

On a slightly related anecdotal note. My (now ex) Thai GF of supposedly fairly good academic pedigree (Triam Udom Suska -> ChulaUndergrad) once told me that the going rate for a sure thing PhD magic carpet ride with a well-connected supervisor at AIT was THB1M/year.

She ought to have known, since her family was buying her one at the time. My only real doubt is the figure mentioned. Being Thai, she mayhave inflated it to gain more face


6/5/2012 22:17:57 PM


13/13

Curious to know if anyone else has ever heard similar stories.


68Don James // May 29, 2012 at 10:51 am

See latest article at http://www.scidev.net/en/south-east-asia/news/thai-plagiarism-saga-takes-a-new-turn.html .

With its Director charged with criminal forgery, it seems NIAs Board has more to worry about than academic plagiarism.

Under NIAs mandate to grant funds to the private sector, opportunities abound for the unscrupulous, especially when compounded by a lax andcompliant Board. It would probably be unfair to shout Only in Thailand! but I do marvel at the NIA Boards solidarity and continuing trust inits dodgy Director.

Quid pro quo?



These are charges brought by Wyn Ellis. I hope for his sake he doesnt have to turn up to court too regularly in connection with this case or else he will most likely be getting third brick through his car window. Hell be avoiding routes with footbridges by now


70Don James // Jun 1, 2012 at 10:00 pm

Unofficial translation of interview of Thai Publica with Chula 31 May 2012:

Following the meeting of the Chula University Council on 31 May, Prof Suchada Kirananda (Chairman of the University Council) did notanswer reporters questions, but assigned Dr Pirom Kamol-ratanakul(University President) to answer.

When a reporter asked [Prof Pirom] about reports in the foreign media of delays in the Universitys deliberations, Prof Pirom said,The foreign media may not understand the complexity of the investigation. One reason why the investigation is delayed is because theinvestigating committee faced problems in inviting those concerned to give information. Because in this issue there are many people involved,

both within and outside the university. We are not a court, so we have limited authority to invite those involved to testify or ask for evidencefrom third parties. Because they can choose to come late or not at all. But, the the investigation of individuals within Chula is already done.

In terms of possible outcomes from the University Council, Dr Pirom pointed out: Because of the many issues involved, there are several possible paths in decision-making. But evaluating the information in our hands now, we expect the result to be announced within the nextmonth, and will issue a statement covering everything at that time.

Original article at http://thaipublica.org/2012/06/plagiarised-phd-thesis/


71Don James // Jun 3, 2012 at 10:47 pm

An update: this week a Thai investigative journalist from Thaipublica.net asked Chulas president Prof Pirom Kamol-Rattanakul about his delayin acting. Pirom claimed that (a) Foreign reporters may not understand the complexity of the investigation; (b) the investigating committeefaced delays because it could not force outside witnesses to come and testify; and (c) there are several possible outcomes. He promised that theCouncil would decide by the end of June.

Hmm. Having found 80% plagiarism in the thesis in April 2010, the investigation was over and at that point became a disciplinary matter, inwhich revocation of any fraudulently obtained degree would be an automatic and required formality. Perhaps Dr Pirom could tell us why 2 yearslater the university has yet to act on its own findings?

Finally, I wonder does Dr Pirom (apparently an expert in good governance) consider this case as an example of organizational dysfunction, or is there perhaps a more obvious reason?


72Andrew Johnson // Jun 4, 2012 at 4:23 pm

This sounds terribly familiar. Where have I heard this before?

- The investigation is ongoing. There is a committee.- Were trying our best to find out who is at fault and we will bring them to justice if anyone is found.- The foreign media dont understand the complexities of this investigation, so they should back off, even if the issue seems rather cut-and-driedfrom the outside.- We will announce results very soon (just wait and wait and wait)

Sounds an awful lot like the hunt for those who fired the shots two years ago

Or, strangely enough, the hunt for the real killer of Nicole Brown Simpson.


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