US House of Representatives Hearing on Baluchistan (2012)

8/2/2019 US House of Representatives Hearing on Baluchistan (2012)

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72791PDF 2012

BALUCHISTAN

HEARINGBEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND

INVESTIGATIONS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

FEBRUARY 8, 2012

Serial No. 112121

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or

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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New JerseyDAN BURTON, IndianaELTON GALLEGLY, CaliforniaDANA ROHRABACHER, CaliforniaDONALD A. MANZULLO, IllinoisEDWARD R. ROYCE, CaliforniaSTEVE CHABOT, OhioRON PAUL, TexasMIKE PENCE, Indiana

JOE WILSON, South CarolinaCONNIE MACK, FloridaJEFF FORTENBERRY, NebraskaMICHAEL T. MCCAUL, TexasTED POE, TexasGUS M. BILIRAKIS, FloridaJEAN SCHMIDT, OhioBILL JOHNSON, OhioDAVID RIVERA, FloridaMIKE KELLY, PennsylvaniaTIM GRIFFIN, ArkansasTOM MARINO, PennsylvaniaJEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina

ANN MARIE BUERKLE, New YorkRENEE ELLMERS, North CarolinaROBERT TURNER, New York

HOWARD L. BERMAN, CaliforniaGARY L. ACKERMAN, New YorkENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American

SamoaDONALD M. PAYNE, New JerseyBRAD SHERMAN, CaliforniaELIOT L. ENGEL, New YorkGREGORY W. MEEKS, New YorkRUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri

ALBIO SIRES, New JerseyGERALD E. CONNOLLY, VirginiaTHEODORE E. DEUTCH, FloridaDENNIS CARDOZA, CaliforniaBEN CHANDLER, KentuckyBRIAN HIGGINS, New York

ALLYSON SCHWARTZ, PennsylvaniaCHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, ConnecticutFREDERICA WILSON, FloridaKAREN BASS, CaliforniaWILLIAM KEATING, MassachusettsDAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island

YLEEM D.S. POBLETE, Staff DirectorRICHARD J. KESSLER, Democratic Staff Director

SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS

DANA ROHRABACHER, California, Chairman

MIKE KELLY, PennsylvaniaRON PAUL, TexasTED POE, TexasDAVID RIVERA, Florida

RUSS CARNAHAN, MissouriDAVID CICILLINE, Rhode IslandKAREN BASS, California



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C O N T E N T S

Page

WITNESSES

C. Christine Fair, Ph.D., assistant professor, Georgetown University ............... 9Mr. Ralph Peters, military analyst and author .................................................... 31Mr. T. Kumar, director, International Advocacy, Amnesty International USA . 41M. Hossein Bor, Ph.D., counsel, Entwistle & Cappucci, LLP .............................. 51Mr. Ali Dayan Hasan, Pakistan director, Asia Division, Human Rights Watch 68

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

The Honorable Dana Rohrabacher, a Representative in Congress from theState of California, and chairman, Subcommittee on Oversight and Inves-tigations: Prepared statement ............................................................................. 4

C. Christine Fair, Ph.D.: Prepared statement ....................................................... 12Mr. Ralph Peters: Prepared statement .................................................................. 33Mr. T. Kumar: Prepared statement ....................................................................... 43M. Hossein Bor, Ph.D.: Prepared statement ......................................................... 53Mr. Ali Dayan Hasan: Prepared statement ........................................................... 70

APPENDIX

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 96Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 97



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BALUCHISTAN

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 2012

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ,SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGNAFFAIRS,Washington, DC.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m., in room

2200, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Dana Rohrabacher(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. ROHRABACHER. I call this hearing of the Oversight and In-vestigations Subcommittee of the House Foreign Affairs Committeeto order.

Todays hearing is about a part of the world and a people thatmost Americans know nothing about, Baluchistan, an area inhab-ited by the Baluch people who trace their history back for cen-turies. Baluchistan deserves our attention because it is a turbulentland marked by human rights violations committed by regimesthat are hostile to Americas interests and values. It holds a verystrategic location in an area of intense international rivalries.

Baluchistan comprises about 800 miles of coast at the head of theArabian Sea between Iran and India and runs inland to southernAfghanistan. The Baluchs are a fiercely independent warrior people

who have made their land a perilous land to invadeuntil naturalgas and other mineral wealth was discovered there in this last cen-tury.

During the 17th century the tribes were united in a loose confed-eration until the British incorporated the area into the Indian em-pire in the 19th century. The British, however, ruled the area witha light touch, leaving tribal chiefs in control of their everyday af-fairs.

At the time of the partition of the British Raj into contemporaryPakistan and India back in 1947, the Baluch leaders voiced a de-sire for independence, but the Pakistan army took control of thearea and forced the Baluch tribal chiefs to submit to the rule fromIslamabad. The partition was based on religion, that partition be-tween India and Pakistan, it was based on religion, rather thanethnic identity. The Baluchs are Sunni Muslims; and Pakistan,which was founded as an Islamic state, sees itself as the rightfulruler of all Muslims of the subcontinent.

Pakistani ideology holds Islam as the first identity, but otherpeople identify themselves and their interests in many differentways. In practice, Pakistan does not treat all Muslims equally. TheBaluch have seen little benefit from the development of the naturalgas, coal, gold, uranium, and copper that is produced in their prov-



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ince. Instead, the wealth is taken for the benefit of the dominantPunjabi elite that runs the country from Islamabad.Baluchistan remains the poorest province in Pakistan, even

though it is the richest in natural resources. Attacks against nat-ural gas installations and pipelines by Baluch insurgents are stead-ily increasing, and there have been assassinations of Chinese engi-neers who are helping Pakistan develop resources that will beshipped out of the province to benefit Islamabad and, of course,Beijing.

The provinces major portlet me pronounce itGwadartheport of Gwadar has also been developed with the help of China andmay become a naval base as well as a trade and energy transit cen-ter. Pakistan, however, is using this development to attractPunjabis into the province with the aim perhaps of outnumberingthe local native Baluch.

There was a major uprising in Baluchistan that ran from 1973

to 1977, and the Baluch nationalists were inspired by the inde-pendence of Bangladesh, which was won in 1971. The Baluch in-surgency, however, was ruthlessly crushed by Pakistani forces.

After two decades of relative calm, insurgency broke out again in2005. Islamabad has refused to concede any legitimacy to Baluchnationalism or to engage the Baluch leadership in serious negotia-tions. Its response has been based on brute force, includingextrajudicial killings. The State Department and Amnesty Inter-national have condemned Pakistan for these murderous acts in Ba-luchistan.

Across the border in Iran, there is a province, Sistan-Balu-chistan, which is dominated by the ethnic Baluchs. The mullah re-gime there has denied them their basic human rights; and, as inPakistan, the Baluchs are denied proper education and economicopportunities. As in Pakistan, the resources of Sistan-Baluchistan

are often used to support an elite in a distant capital, leaving thelocal Baluchs in both countries impoverished.The Governor of Sistan-Baluchistan is appointed by the mullah

regime in Tehran. The Governor of Pakistans Baluchistan is deter-mined by a very complicated process which has some democraticelements, but the nationalist parties thought the system was socorrupt that they boycotted the elections in 2008. I hope our wit-nesses can shed some light on how free and fair a political processin that area could be and give us some insights into what is goingon there in terms of the political process.

A low-level insurgency is in progress in Iran, as it is in Pakistan,with both countries reacting with the same brutal way of stampingout resistance. The Baluch in Iran are even more oppressed thanthose in Pakistan because Tehran is run by Shia theocrats whoconsider Sunni Muslims to be worse than heretics. Sunni Baluch

clerics have been killed as part of an Iranian counterinsurgencycampaign.South Asia cannot be understood purely in religious terms, as

Muslim versus non-Muslim or Sunni versus Shiite. Group identi-ties there are rooted in deeper tribal and village allegiances, withcultural attributes and historical experiences that go back for cen-turies. This hearing will explore what these mean and what theymean to the United States, what are the geopolitics of the region,



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the security of Pakistan, Iran, and their neighbors, how thesethings are being affected as well as the stability of that whole area.Also, we are looking at finding out about those things and how

all of these factors and the dynamics that are at work play into theexisting borders and aspirations of self-determination from all theperspectives that Americans hold and value. We believe in self-de-termination and democracy, believe the people have a right tospeak up, but we are also very concerned about the stability of thatpart of the world and what this means to America and to the peo-ple there.

So, as I say, this hearing, although I know that a lot of peoplesaw this with trepidations, we are trying to understand somethingthat I think we as American people have not paid attention to. Sowe need to learn things, like how to pronounce the port there andthings like that. But even more than that, how to identify whatforces are at work and who has some legitimate complaints and

what America should be doing in reaction to the events there withthe people there. So we are not here towe are here to learn, andthat is what this hearing is all about.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Rohrabacher follows:]



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Mr. ROHRABACHER

. With that, I would turn to my ranking mem-ber, Mr. Carnahan, for his opening remarks.Let me note, please dont applaud, please dont throw fruit at me,

either. It would be nicejust because it takes up time, and wehave got to be out of here in about an hour. So go right ahead.

Mr. CARNAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am glad to see you have a rous-ing ovation here today in this subcommittee hearing. You say thatlike someone who is used to being applauded and having fruitthrown at you.

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Oh, yes.Mr. CARNAHAN. It goes along with the territory.But, seriously, thank you for holding this hearing today. It is

really very critical that we examine U.S. relations with Pakistanin multiple contexts like this.

Mr. Chairman, since you last called a hearing this past summeron U.S. strategy in south Asia, it is fair to say that the U.S.-Paki-

stan relationship has continued to strain but remains absolutely acritical partnership. I would urge the Pakistani Government to stepup its efforts to weed out terror activity within and along its ownborders.

Pakistan has significant challenges within its own country thathave national, regional, and certainly international implications.One of the concerns and the topic of todays hearing is the situationin Baluchistan.

This past month, a State Department spokesman said, The U.S.is deeply concerned about the ongoing violence in Baluchistan, es-pecially targeted killings, disappearances, and other human rightsabuses.

She further stated that the administration takes allegations ofhuman rights abuses very seriously and that it had discussed theseissues with Pakistani officials.

While the administration is not here today to testify, I wouldurge U.S. officials to continue to bring these issues up in the courseof our diplomatic discussions.

With the significant investment of U.S. funding in Pakistan, itis Congress job to make sure we are getting the return on the in-vestment that our taxpayers deserve. We need to ensure that everydollar of U.S.-taxpayer-funded assistance is being used properlyand in our interest. Vigorous oversight of all U.S. foreign aid iscritical to the success of our programs there and is a key compo-nent to building infrastructure and capacity in Pakistan.

However, the U.S. and international commitment to Pakistan isnot enough. In the face of all its challenges, it is critical that Paki-stan work to ensure the integrity of its own people and its owncountry, including Baluchistan; and as the U.S., the U.N., andNATO continue in Afghanistan, the Afghan-Baluchistan border re-

mains critical to ensuring that we are making decisions that movePakistan, Afghanistan, and the entire region toward increased sta-bility.

Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am looking forward to hear-ing the esteemed panel of witnesses that we have with us today.

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much.Mr. Sherman, do you have an opening statement?Mr. SHERMAN. I do indeed.



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Mr. ROHRABACHER

. Go right ahead.Mr. SHERMAN. I want to thank the chairman of this sub-committee for allowing me to make a statement at this hearing. Ihave been on the full committee for 15 years and havent had thehonor to be a member of this subcommittee but have had a chanceto see its work when reported to the full committee.

My statement will focus not only on Baluchistan but the adjoin-ing area of the Sindh province. Many Baluch live in the Sindhprovince, and to a great extent the Pakistani Government treat-ment of both these southern areas is similar.

Pakistan-U.S. relations hit an all-time low last year when wefound bin Laden in Abbottabad and perhaps later when allegedlythe U. S. Embassy in Kabul was attacked by those who may havehad the help of the ISI. That is why it is more important than everfor the U.S. to reach out to the various people who have beenmarginalized by the Pakistani Government.

The people of Baluchistan and Sindh, their culture, language,and way of life are under attack and underrepresented from somany major government entities in Pakistan. Political activities de-fending Baluch and Sindhi rights are subject to arrest, disappear-ances, torture, and even killing.

I believe the U.S. must reach out to these underrepresented his-toric segments of the Pakistani population. The Baluch people areculturally and traditionally regarded as secular and moderate,strongly influenced by the cultural traditions of Sufism. Both theSindhis and the Baluch have a culture that I think will be con-sistent with American values; and a significant part of the peopleof Sindh, of course, are Baluch ethnically or have Baluch origins.The Baluch and Sindhis, including those Baluch living in Sindhiprovince, share the goal of government recognition of their cultural,political, and economic rights.

Baluchistan is Pakistans most underdeveloped province. It hasthe highest unemployment and poverty rates, the lowest quality oflife when measured economically of any province in Pakistan. Theroad infrastructure is also poor; and, as the chairman points out,this is ironic because it is such a resource-rich area, especially asto natural gas. Islamabads reluctance to give the Baluch peoplemore autonomy is in part because they covet those resources. TheBaluch gained a more equitable share of the regions rich naturalresources, and that is another source of resentment.

A third source of resentment is the Pakistani army cantonmentsthat are being established in the Baluch areas. A small minorityof Baluch have undertaken the armed struggle which was de-scribed by the chairman, and he also described its history.

There is also, as the chairman described, Baluch on the Iranianside of the border waging a conflict against the Ayatollah regime.

In this critical part of the world, we cannot afford to ignore thesouthern half of Pakistan, especially its population of Baluch andSindhis.

I had an opportunity last year to found the Sindh Caucus, andI would invite my colleagues to join. It is co-chaired by Dan Burton,

Adam Schiff is an active member, and, as I have noted, the peopleof Sindh have a moderate tradition that is consistent with U.S. val-ues and U.S. interests.



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For many years, the Pakistani Government has tried to imposejust one language, Urdu, on the people of Pakistan, when in factSindhi is spoken by more people than Urdu. We need to reach outto the people of Sindh province and others who speak the Sindhilanguage, and we need to do so in the Sindh language.

Right now, the Voice of America is broadcasting only in Urdu.That is why I want to commend our full committee for voting formy amendment to require that the Voice of America start broad-casting in the Sindh language, and now it is a matter of actuallymaking that happen through the bureaucracy and through the Ap-propriations Committee. And I look forward to the day when thatis a success and we are back here talking about the Baluch lan-guage.

I believe my time has expired, and I yield back to the chair.Mr. ROHRABACHER. Thank you very much.

It is always great to chair a hearing where someone is more rad-ical than I am on certain issues.Mr. SHERMAN. A rare occurrence, I might add.Mr. ROHRABACHER. Actually, we see eye to eye on almost every-

thing except he is a Democrat and I am a Republican.We also have another soft-spoken Member of Congress joining us,

Louie Gohmert from Texas. I ask unanimous consent that he maysit in on this hearing and have the rights of all the other membersof the committee.

So ordered.Louie, do you have a couple minute opening statement for us? Go

right ahead. Take 2 minutes.Mr. GOHMERT. I will wait.Mr. ROHRABACHER. Take 1 minute and get yourselfMr. GOHMERT. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. It is an honor to be here,

and it is, I think, just wonderful that you have called this hearing,and I appreciate the interest I am hearing from our Democraticfriends.

But when you have a place in the world that was forced to bepart of another country in 1948, as Baluchistan was, and then inthat same country the people that are native to that area are har-assed, what some of us would consider to be the human rights ofdignity that every human being should be afforded are violated ona regular basis by the national government. And then further thatgovernment goes on to, whether it is official or unofficial, to furnishsupplies, encouragementwhat people I met with in forward-oper-ating bases in Afghanistan last month tell me are the supplies, theIEDs, the weapons coming in to the Taliban, so many are comingfrom Pakistan and coming from the Baluchistan area.

And as an editorial I was pleased to read in the Pakistan Daily

Times noted, maybe it is time that we quit working so hard to sup-port the Taliban in another country and concentrate more on ourown country. And I think it would make the United States veryhappy to see that, it would make people of Afghanistan very happythat the Taliban was no longer being provided weapons to inflictharm on them, and it would make the Baluchs very happy, frommy discussion with them, that they were allowed to live in peacewithout being subjected to horrors from their own government.



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So I am delighted you asked for this hearing, and I appreciatethe opportunity to be here.Mr. ROHRABACHER. All right. Thank you very much. No ap-

plause. Thank you very much, Mr. Gohmert.We have witnesses ahead of us. You will note that there are a

couple more witnesses than we originally planned. Because we doknow so little about this region, we didnt know who to invite, andthere were some suggestions that were sent to me over the Internetthat we maybe should expand it to make sure there is a little bitmore representative cross-section of views, and that is what we did.So I want to thank whoever sent me those suggestions, and I thinkwe are going to have a much richer hearing because of it.

But we have a time problem, and the time problem is that theyare going to call votes sometime in the next hour, maybe even 12hour or 45 minutes, so I am going to hold each one of you to the5-minute rule for your testimony, and I am sorry, but I am going

to have to, because otherwise there wont be any time for questionsand answers at all.

We have with us on the panel Christine Fair, assistant professor,Center for Peace and Security Studies at the Edmund WalshSchool of Foreign Service in Georgetown University. Previously,she has served as a senior political scientist with RAND Corpora-tion, a political officer to the United Nations Assistance Mission to

Afghanistan, and as a member of the International Institute forStrategic Studies, the Council on Foreign Relations, and serves onthe editorial board of Studies in Conflict and Terrorism.

I will introduce each one just prior to their testimony, and weknow how soft-spoken you are, Dr. Fair, and how you never causeany controversy, but you enlighten everyone, so you may proceed.Five minutes.

STATEMENT OF C. CHRISTINE FAIR, PH.D., ASSISTANTPROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY

Ms. FAIR. Sir, you are one of my favorite Republicans. We dontsee eye to eye on a lot of things, but on the things we see eye toeye on, we see eye to eye.

Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak onthis really important topic. As you noted, there arent that manyfolks that know about Baluchistan, there arent that many folkswho know about Pakistan, and when this topic comes up, it is usu-ally focused on the war on terror in Afghanistan. So it is nice tosee that there is a hearing specifically dedicated to this particularissue.

I have submitted a longervery long written statement that I re-quest become part of the permanent record.

In that statement, I spend quite a bit of time trying to map out

what we know geographically, historically, and demographicallyabout Baluchistan. Unfortunately, we dont know a lot, because thePakistan census is terribly out of date, and unfortunately the proc-ess of a census in Pakistan has become very politicized.

But what we do know is that the Baluch ethnic group is the larg-est ethnic group in the province. The exact numbers are perhapsunknown. But we also know that, by any measure of human devel-opmentand I put a few, just a sample in my testimonyby any



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measure of human development, by any development, any measureof economic development, Baluchistan always ranks below theother provinces in Pakistan, with the perhaps exception of FATA.

In addition to that, as you note in your opening statement, Balu-chistan is actually a very large producer of resources. Yet, iron-ically, even though Baluchistan produces about 40 percent of thecountrys gas, very few Baluch actually take advantage of that gasbecause there is no infrastructure for them to do so. So when youmeet with folks from Baluchistan, they will tell you the only timethey get gas or electricity hook-ups is when a cantonment comesto town. The army will counter that it is very hard to spread thatinfrastructure throughout a province which accounts for about 5percent of Pakistans population but about 40 percent of the ter-rain. So they will know that there are logistical challenges. Obvi-ously, the truth lies somewhere in between.

Baluchistans appalling human rights record also stands beforeus. We have Human Rights Watch here. We have Amnesty Inter-national. Everyone knows about the forced abductions that aregoing on. Everyone knows that Baluchistan has been a very restiveprovince from day one. Many Baluch didnt even want to join theunion of Pakistan.

In that sense, it shares a lot of similarities to Kashmir. Kashmirwas also forcibly annexed, and many of the challenges that we seehappening in Pakistan visvis Baluchistan could also, I think, besaid in some measure about the situation in Kashmir.

Curiously, what I find very puzzling about Pakistan is that overthe lastwell, since 2004, the state has been waging a pretty vi-cious counterinsurgency campaign against elements of the so-calledPakistan Taliban, and it has generated quite a bit of outrageamong Pakistanis. Yet the last six decades of episodic military use

of force against Baluch insurgents doesnt really cause that kind ofoutrage at all.In fact, in my written statement, I provided a link to a very fas-

cinating BBC documentary that was called Ko Jaanta Hai, WhoKnows Baluchistan? They went around Lahore and they askedfolks, do you know what Baluchistan is? Can you name a city? Andit was actually appalling how few people knew where the provincewas, that there was an insurgency, that people couldnt even namethe major city of Gwadar.

So you have this very interesting combination of the ability of le-thal force but yet you have very few people in Pakistan who knowabout it.

A second related problem is that, because it has so few peopleand because the representation in the National Assembly is basedupon population, it means that Baluchistan can never have any

heft in the National Assembly. While it has equal representationin the Senate, as I am sure you know in Pakistan the Senate hasvery little power.

Now, while we focus upon the abductions and the state-sponsoredhuman rights abuses, which are numerous, I do want to point out,though, that this isnt the only kind of violence which is happeningin Pakistan or in Baluchistan. So the forced disappearances I amsure my colleagues from Amnesty and from Human Rights Watch



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will dilate upon them. But there are also targeted killings that areunfortunately done by some Baluch.I understand the sentiment that there is this perception that

they are being colonized by the Punjab, but, unfortunately, thereis a past dependency problem. Baluchistan has a massive problemwith education, right? So how do you produce teachers from a prov-ince that doesnt have, on the main, people who are adequatelyeducated to produce the folks who can subsequently become teach-ers? So there is a need for teachers to come from other provincesin Baluchistan, butI am sure Human Rights Watch have writtenan entire report about thismany of those teachers have been sin-gled out because they are Punjabi. It is not just teachers. It is alsoproviders of other human services. Police in particular are very vul-nerable.

So I onlyI dont only want to draw attention to the targeted

killing of one community by state forces, but in fact we have a lotof acts of violence converging in Baluchistan.Another one that doesnt get a lot of attention is also the sec-

tarian violence. Shia have paid a heavy price in Pakistan, and wecan continue to see this kind of violence happening in Baluchistan.

Mr. ROHRABACHER. I am afraid your 5 minutes is gone.Ms. FAIR. There we go.Mr. ROHRABACHER. We will come back. Hopefully, we will have

time for some questions and answers.And I would also suggest, if the panel would like to, during their

5 minutes, express something about what has already been said,please feel free.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Fair follows:]



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Mr. ROHRABACHER

. We have with us Ralph Peters, a writer,strategist, media commentator, retired military officer. He is theauthor of 28 books and approximately 1,000 columns, articles, andessays. Being a writer, I can appreciate that, admire that.

He served in the U.S. Army for 22 years as an Americanwe aregrateful for that servicefirst as an enlisted man, then as an offi-cer, retiring shortly after his promotion to lieutenant colonel. As asoldier, Ralph served in the infantry and military intelligence unitsbefore becoming a foreign area officer specializing in Russia andsurrounding states.

He also served in the Executive Office of the President. Specialassignments took him to Southeast Asia, Central Asia, to theCaucasus, to Pakistan, and Burma. He has traveled extensively inthe Muslim world as well as studying in India, sub-Saharan Africa,and Indonesia. He has reported from various conflict zones, includ-ing Iraq, Israel, and sub-Saharan Africa.

Mr. Peters, you have 5 minutes, and we look forward to hearingyour testimony.

STATEMENT OF MR. RALPH PETERS, MILITARY ANALYST ANDAUTHOR

Mr. PETERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this oppor-tunity, and I am sure you will agree with me, as will CongressmanCarnahan, that such an important problem cannot be approachedin a partisan manner, and we ought to act as Americans with our

American values and bring those to bear, not an ideology of anykind.

Let us start with the incontrovertible fact and that is that Balu-chistan is occupied territory. It never willingly acceded to Pakistan,does not now wish to be part of Pakistan. If a plebiscite or ref-erendum were held tomorrow, it would vote to leave Pakistan, as

would every province and territory west of the Indus River.We have a fundamental problem in that we refuse to see Paki-stan for what it is. We imagine or pretend that it is a legitimatestate, really in our own image, a democracy, but it is a democracyonly as long as its military rulers allow it to be a democracy.

It is, in fact, a miniature empire, a last artifact, along with a fewother countries around the world, of the imperial age, with artifi-cial borders which we defend, as we do elsewhere, and I find it atravesty that our State Department obsesses on the inviolability ofborders around the world drawn at Versailles or in Berlin in the1880s or in the late 1940s.

How is it in the year of our Lord 2012 we send our troops tobleed or die to defend the residue of the European world order?

And let me be clear. I do not argue that we should actively cam-paign militarily to change every border in the world. I argue that

when the train is coming down the tracks toward you, you are wiseto step off the tracks.In the last two decades since the end of the Cold War, the United

States of America, the greatest force for freedom in human history,every war and conflict in which we have engaged has been trig-gered by or exacerbated by these flawed European borders. Howcan we send our soldiers and Marines and Navy corpsmen to diefor that? That is not who we are.



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What is Pakistan? Pakistan is bisected by the Indus River. Tothe east of the Indus River is metropolitan, core Pakistan, the Pun-jab, and to a great extent the province of Sindh. It is the world ofthe subcontinent. It is a different civilization from that west of theIndus River.

West of the Indus River in the occupied territories you have theculture of central and mid Asia. When you cross the Indus Rivereither way, even the food is different. And we look at this occupiedterritory of Baluchistan specifically where people who simply yearnfor fundamental freedoms, for the right to determine their own fu-ture, whether or not they have a battery of qualified teachers readyto go. We must admire their determination to sacrifice everythingagainst enormous odds in Pakistan and Iran for the simple rightto say, I am a Baluch; I will decide my own future.

Instead, we facewe support Pakistan, their oppressor, a state

that actively supports and arms terrorists and insurgent move-ments in Afghanistan that kill and maim our own soldiers. ThePakistani Government is not our friend. It is not the friend of theBaluch or the other subjugated peoples west of the Indus River.The Durand line, of course, which divides Pakistan and Afghani-stan is artificial. It divides people who want to be together.

Mr. Chairman, my time is running out, so let me simply say thislast thing.

Two hundred years ago, one of our greatest Presidents faced aproblem. The Barbary pirates refused to let our ships pass inpeace, so we paid tribute money to let our goods pass. Thomas Jef-ferson put a stop to that.

Today, we are paying tribute money again, this time to the Paki-stani pirates to let our goods pass to Afghanistan. Mr. Chairman,I am looking for a Thomas Jefferson.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Peters follows:]



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Mr. ROHRABACHER

. Your time is up. That was left on a goodnoteno, no, dont applaudbecause challenging people who wantto have their human rights respected, challenging them to respecthuman rights of others is a really important point, and you justmade that.

We have two other witnesses, and then we will go into our ques-tions and answers.

We are joined, in the meantime, by another Member of Congress,a champion of American commitment to freedom and democracy, areal patriot from Texas, and a man of the law, Judge Poe. In fact,both Congressman Gohmert and Judge Poe are both former judges,and so when we talk about the law and the violations of humanrights, they shine out with their expertise as well as their passion.So we are very happy to have you join us, Your Honor, and we willproceed with the witnesses right now so we can get through thisand then go on to questions and answers.

Mr. ROHRABACHER. We have Dr. Hossein Bor, a lawyer active infacilitating trade, investment, and project development between

American corporations and their counterparts from Gulf countries.Dr. Bor previously served as an adjunct professor of law at the

Catholic University of America and was the energy and economicadviser to the Embassy of Qatar in Washington, DC, from 1982 to1998. He has written extensively on various issues relating to theMiddle East, including a treatise on Iran and nationalities. Heholds a Ph.D. and degrees from both American University andWashington University.

And you may proceed, Dr. Bor.

STATEMENT OF M. HOSSEIN BOR, PH.D., COUNSEL,ENTWISTLE & CAPPUCCI, LLP

Mr. BOR. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This is a great

honor and pleasure to speak on behalf of the Baluch. I am of coursean American Baluch myself, and thank you for the opportunity.As you know, Baluchistan is the most reallythe Baluch people

are the most persecuted, oppressed, and neglected peoples in theMiddle East and South Asia; and of course you, Mr. Chairman,gave a very good overview of Baluch history. The only thing I canadd, Baluch look at their history in one term. Baluch era or BaluchDoura means the era when the Baluch ruled themselves, and theirinstitutions and values were supreme in Baluchistan, and the post-Baluch era, which is the era of colonialism and, of course, the sub-sequent division and forceful incorporation into Iran and Afghani-stan and, of course, Pakistan.

And, of course, before the advent of colonialism you should alsonotice that the Baluch were independent. Like Europe, there wereseveral feudal states, and in many eras also in the 14th, 15th cen-

tury you had a large confederacy of Baluchi state and Durand, ex-tending from Kirman in the east, in Persia, to the Indus Valley,and that is also the current boundaries of Baluchistan as a whole.

And, of course, as you well know, Baluchistan was divided by theBritish into three parts. Goldsmid Line, drawn in 1871 by the Brit-ish colonial officers, divided Baluchistan between Iran and BritishIndia; and of course the Durand Line, drawn also by the British in1894, divided Baluchistan between British India and Afghanistan.



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And of course Baluch, ever since, they have been struggling to re-gain their lost freedom to reassert the Baluch control over theirhomeland, Baluchistan, and to preserve their language and culture.

And the Baluch have never accepted or recognized either theGoldsmid Line, dividing the Baluch between Iran and Pakistan,nor the Durand Line, separating north and Baluchistan. This is re-flected in four insurrections by the Baluch against Pakistan in1948, 1958, 1973, and 2005 insurgency, which is continuing andgrowing in strength each day. Like Baluch, Afghanistan and na-tionalist Pashtuns in Pakistan also do not recognize the DurandLine.

Of course, my colleagues, they well articulated the plight ofhuman rights in Baluchistan and the egregious violation of Baluchhuman rights by Pakistani army and the Pakistani Government.The only thing I can add, according to a report published by the

Asian Human Rights Commission on January 31st last month, itsays that the extrajudicial killings of disappeared persons in Balu-chistan include 23 bullet-riddled bodies found during the firstmonth of this year, during January, 56 mutilated bodies during thelast 6 months, and 271 bodies since July, 2010. That tells youabout the extent of the brutality. And according, of course, toBaluch sources, the figures are much higher, and since 2001 about4,000 Baluch have beenhave disappeared, and this is a con-tinuing problem, and that is one of the main reasons that theBaluch

Mr. ROHRABACHER. Excuse me, you said from 2001 to the presentdate how many?

Mr. BOR. 4,000.Mr. ROHRABACHER. 4,000 people have disappeared.Mr. BOR. Yes, sir.

And, of course, this is one of the main impediments to Baluchleaders negotiating with weak civilian government in Pakistan.Until these issues are resolved to the satisfaction of the aggrievedBaluch families, no Baluch leader would dare to negotiate with thePakistani Government.

And of course they alsoas they stated, Baluchistan is one of themost richest lands in the worldoil, aluminum, gold, coalbut itis exploited for the benefit of non-Baluch in Punjab. And eventhough the Baluchistan account for 30 percent of the natural gasexploited in Pakistan, Baluchistan saves only 17 percent. The rest,even the British colonialists were not so greedy and brutal, andthat is why the Baluchistan remain the mostthe least developedregion in Pakistan. There is no really basic industries to talkabout. And of course that is one of the main reasons for the ongo-ing insurgency in Baluchistan.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Bor follows:]



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the license provided by the U.S., the U.K., and other powers in thecontext of the war on terror where the disappearance and legal de-tention of Taliban and Al Qaeda suspects was green-lighted effec-tively by the U.S. This gave the Pakistani military carte blanche,if you will, to extend such abusive operations to its own politicalopponents, which include Baluch nationalists.

Having said that, there are also multiple abusesthough ofcourse I must clarify that there is no comparison between theabuses perpetrated by the state and other actorsbut there areabuses that we have documented by Baluch nationalist militants,particularly attacks against education personnel and against othernon-Baluch residents of the province.

Now, non-Baluch residents of the province are not a small minor-ity. We are talking ofalthough there is contentious figures be-cause of a lack of censussomething about 40 percent at least of

the population of Baluch.Mr. ROHRABACHER. Did you say 40 or 14?Mr. HASAN. Four-zero.Mr. ROHRABACHER. Four-zero.Mr. HASAN. Four-zero percent of the population of Baluchistan

this is an approximationare non-Baluch at least. So this is avery, very complex situation now. Non-Baluch, particularly Punjabisettlers and Urdu-speaking settlers in Baluchistan, are livingequally in fear of their lives because of fear of attack from Baluchnationalists.

Finally, there is the issue of religious militant groups, particu-larly Sunni militant groups, that are attacking the Shia, largelyHazara, but Shia in general. And these militant groups often doact, it is alleged and widely believed, atin conjunction with or atthe behest of the Pakistani military, but they also act independ-

ently. The basic problem is that if the Pakistani state takes Balu-chistan seriously, it must enforce rights respecting rule of law inthe province. It has abjectly failed to do so, and this is creating ahuman rights crisis across Baluchistan.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hasan follows:]



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Mr. ROHRABACHER

. Good. That is a good point to end your testi-mony on.I want to thank all of you for participating today. There will be

votes coming up soon, so we want to try to get involved with somequestions right away. I will just do a few, and the ranking member,and we will make sure that other congressmen get a chance aswell.

I think one point, I like to read history. I mean, I like to readhistory, and Mr. Peters was expressingwas talking about ThomasJefferson and such. I agree with you, Dr. Peters, or Mr. Peters, Ishould say, or Colonel Peters. I think that our Founding Fathersand most of the people who built this country would be turningover in their grave if they found out that we were sending Amer-ican military personnel in order to maintain the colonial bound-aries that were established by the people we had to fight in orderto become independent.

And many of the conflicts that we have throughout the worldtodayI agree with you, Colonel Petersthat can be traced rightback to the colonial era with decisions that were made by colonialpowers. And then we end up in conflicts like this, and especiallyif the United States intervenes in order to maintain a status quoof borderlines, which is what we seem to be doing. This is not con-sistent with our national interests or our traditions at all, and Ithink America needs to reexamine this issue and have a heartfeltdebate internally about what should motivate America to get in-volved.

But one thing is for sure. When someone is helping kill Ameri-cans or threatening to set up some sort of dictatorship overforwhatever cause, Americans, we should not be on their side in help-ing them. And I think that what brokethe straw that broke thecamels back was when we found out that not only has Pakistan

been arming those Taliban and other radicals that have been mur-dering American soldiers in Afghanistan, but they have given aidand comfort and safe haven to the man who masterminded theslaughter of 3,000 Americans. And anybody who doesnt believethat they did that is an irrational optimist about what is going ondown there.

I think that at that point we need to understand that we cannotback up everything that Pakistan does simply because somethingmight disturb the lines that were drawn so long ago and thatwould create instability. With that said, thank you.

Would you like to comment on that?Mr. PETERS. If I may.Mr. ROHRABACHER. But you only have about 20 seconds to do it.Mr. PETERS. Mr. Chairman, you like to read history. Today, you

are making history.

Not only does Pakistan facilitate terrorism in Afghanistan whileplaying triple and quadruple games, but we shouldnt lose sight ofthe fact that Pakistan has made us complicit in terrorism againstIndia. Because Pakistan, using the nuclear red herring, knows thatthey have been able to sponsor attacks against New Delhi, againstMumbai, and knowing we will step in and stop India from retali-ating. Imagine how different it would be if the Pakistanis didntthink they could count on us to run interference.



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