VICTORIA

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

FORTY -FIFTH PARLIAMENT

SECOND SE'SSION (1971-72)

14~!1i1ilatin~ C!!uUU!il aub 1Jj~!1i1ilatin~ A1i1i~mbly

VOL. CCCVI.

[From December 2, 1971, to April 13, 1972J

MELBOURNE: C. H. RIXON, GOVERNMENT PRINTER.

W'4t ~n1ttrnnr

His Excellency Major-Genera1 SIR ROHAN DELACOMBE, K.C.M.G., K.C.V.O., K.B.E., C.B., D.S.O., K.ST.J.

W'4t 1Jj ttuttnunt-~n1ttrllnr

Lieutenant-General the Honorable SIR EDMUND FRANCIS HERRING, K.C.M.G., K.B.E., D.S.O., M.C., E.D.

W'4t jlJIltntntry Premier and Treasurer . . The Hon. Sir Henry Bolte, G.C.M.G.,

M.P.

Chief Secretary

Minister of Agriculture

Attorney-General

Minister of Education

Minister of Housing, Minister of Forests, and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs

Minister for Fuel and Power, and Minister of Mines

Minister of Health ..

Minister of Transport

Minister for State Development, Minister for Tourism, and Minister of Immi­gration

Minister of Lands, Minister of Soldier Settlement, and Minister for Conservation

Minister of Labour and Industry, and Assistant Minister of Education

Minister of Public Works

Minister for Social Welfare

Minister of Water Supply

Minister for Local Government

"

"

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"

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"

"

" " " "

R. J. Hamer, E.D., M.P.

G. L. Chandler, C.M.G., M.L.C.

G. O. Reid, Q.C., M.P.

L. H. S. Thompson, M.P.

E. R. Meagher, M.B.E., E.D., M.P.

J. C. M. Balfour, M.P.

J. F. Rossiter, M.P.

V. F. Wilcox, M.P.

V. O. Dickie, M.L.C.

W. A. Borthwick, M.P.

J. A. Rafferty, M.P.

Murray Byrne, M.L.C.

1. W. Smith, M.P.

R. C. Dunstan, D.S.O., M.P.

A. J. Hunt, M.L.C.

Parliamentary Secretary of the Cabinet: A. H. Scanlan, Esquire, M.P.

millt nf fI~mb~rll nf 'arliam~ut FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT-SECOND SESSION (1971-72)

MEMBER

Bradbury, A. K. Byrne, Murray Campbell, W. M. . . Chandler, G. L., C.M.G. Clarke, M. A. Dickie, V. O. Dunn, B. P. Eddy, R. J. Elliot, D. G. Fry, W. G. Galbally, J. W., Q.C .. , Garrett, R. W., A.F.C.,

A.B.A. Gleeson, S. B. Granter, F. J. Grimwade, F. S. Gross, K. S. Hamilton, H. M., E.D. Hauser, V. T.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

PROVINCE

North-Eastern Ballaarat East Yarra Boronia Northern Ballaarat North-Western Doutta Galla Melbourne Higinbotham Melbourne North Templestowe

South-Western Bendigo Bendigo Western Higinbotham Boronia

MEMBER

Hider, C. A. M. Houghton, W. V. Hunt, A. J. Jenkins, O. G. Kent, D. E. Knight, A. W. McDonald, S. R. Mansell, A. R. May, R. W. Mitchell, C. A. Nicol, G. J.

*O'Connell, G. J. Storey, Haddon, Q.C. Swinburne, I. A. Thomas, H. A. Tripovich, J. M. Walton, J. M. Ward, H. R.

• Died. April 20. 1972.

President: THE HON. R. W. GARRETT, A.F.C., A.E.A.

Chairman of Committees: THE HON. G. J. NICOL.

PROVINCE

Monash Templestowe" South-Eastern South-Western Gippsland Melbourne West Northern North-Western Gippsland Western Monash Melbourne East Yarra North-Eastern Melbourne West Doutta Galla Melbourne North South-Eastern

Temporary Chairmen of Committees: THE HONORABLES A. K. BRADBURY, W. G. FRY, K. S. GROSS, AND A. W. KNIGHT.

MEMBER

Amos, D. G. 1. Balfour, J. C. M. ., Billing, N. A. W., K.ST.J.

j

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBER

McDonald, R. S. L. McLaren, I. F., O.B.E. Maclellan, R. R. C.

DISTRICT

Rodney Bennettswood Gippsland West Ringwood

Birrell, H. W. Bolte, Sir Henry,

DL'iTRICT

Morwell Narracan Heatherton Geelong Hampden

Manson, J. W. Meagher, E. R., M.B.E., Frankston

G.C.M.G. Bornstein, D. L. F. Borthwick, W. A. Broad, H. G. Burgin, C. W. *Christie, Sir Vernon tClarey, R. A. Crellin, M. L. Curnow, E. J. Dixon, B. J. Doube, V. J. tDoyle, J. J. Dunstan, R. C., D.S.O. Edmunds, C. T. Evans, A. T. Evans, B. J. Fell, R. W. Floyd, W. L. Fordham, R. C. Ginifer, J. J. Goble, Mrs. D. A. §Guy, A. G. Hamer, R. J., E.D. Hayes, G. P. Holding, A. C. J ona, Walter Kirkwood, C. W. D. Lewis, E. W. Lewis, W. J. Lind, A. A. C. Lovegrove, Denis Loxton, S. J. E. McCabe, J. E. MacDonald, J. D .

Bfunswick East Mpnbulk sv(an Hill PaJlwarth I~anhoe 1Y elbourne S 'ndringham Ka'ra Kara St. 'Kilda Albtert Park Gislilome Drol)lana MQilllee Ponds Ballaarat North Gippshind East Greensborough Williamjstown Footscr~y Deer Il'ark Mitc~m GisbOl'he Kew i

Score,.by Rich1\nond Haw#horn Presupn Dun~as

port$nd Dan ~nong Suns me Prahlran Lowim

. Gle:.(t Iris

E.D. Mitchell, T. W. Moss, G. C. Mutton, J. P. Rafferty, J. A. Reese, W. F. L. Reid, G. 0., Q. C. Ross-Edwards, Peter Rossiter, J. F. Scanlan, A. H. Shilton, L. V. Simmonds, J. L. Smith, Aurel Smith, I. W. Stephen, W. F. Stokes, R. N. Suggett, R. H. Tanner, Sir Edgar, C.B.E.,

E.D. Taylor, A. W., E.D. Taylor, J. A. Templeton, T. W. Thompson, L. H. S. Trethewey, R. H. Trewin, T. C. Trezise, N. B. Turnbull, Campbell Wheeler, K. H. Whiting, M. S. Wilcox, V. F. Wilkes, F. N. Wilton, J. T. Wiltshire, R. J.

t Died. May 9. 1972.

Benambra Murray Valley Coburg Glenhuntly Moorabbin Box Hill Shepparton Brighton Oakleigh Midlands Reservoir Bellarine Warrnambool Ballaarat South Evelyn Bentleigh Caulfield

Balwyn Gippsland South Mentone Malvern Bendigo Benalla Geelong North Brunswick West Essendon Mildura Camberwell Northcote Broadmeadows Syndal

• Knighted. Jan'uary 1. 1972. t Resigned. Octlober 4. 1971.

.; § Elected, December 11. 1971.

\. Speaker: SIR VERNON CHRISTIE.

Chairman 01 Committees: SIR. EDGAR TANNER, C.B.E., B.D.

Temporary Chairmen of COnu1littees: MR. CLAREY, MR. A. T. EVANS, MR. G1NIFER, MR. JONA, MR. LIND, MR. R. S. L. McDONALD, MR. MITCHELL, MR. STOKES, MR. SUGGETT, MR. A. W. TAYLOR, MR\TREWIN, MR. WHEELER, AND MR. WILTSHIRE.

Leader of the Libert~ Party: THE HON. SIR HENRY BOLTE, G.C.M.G.

Deputy Leader of t~e Liberal Party: THE HON. R. J. HAMER, E.D.

Leader of the ParliaJnentary Labor Party and Leader of the Opposition : ; MR. A. C. HOLDING.

Deputy Leader of the P~liamentary Labor Party and Deputy Leader of the OPp~sition: MR. F. N. WILKES.

Leader of the COlOltry Party: MR. PETER Ross-EDWARDS.

Deputy Leader of the Country Party: MR. M. S. WHITING.

HEADS OF PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

Council-Clerk of the Parliaments and Clerk or the' Legislative Council-: Mr. A. R. B. McDonnell. .

Assembly-Clerk of the Legislative Assembly: Mr. J. H. Campbell.

Hansard-Chief Reporter: Mr. R. G. Stiert, E.D.

Library-Librarian: Miss J. McGovern.

House-Secretary: Mr. R. M. Dug~d.

i J

r

Supply (Final Supplementary [2 DECEMBER, 1971.] Estimates) Bill. 3749

Ministers. The Final Supplementary Estimates are to meet payments outstanding for the last financial year.

When explaining the Bill, the Min­ister stated that Supplementary Estimates in excess of $32 million were approved in the autumn sessional period and further Sup­plementary Estimates were approved in this session for payments of pay­roll tax to the Commonwealth Gov­ernment. The Minister also referred to increased salaries and wages, and I desire to comment upon one facet of increased salaries and wages

A lot is said about cost-push infla­tion and so on. This Bill provides for the payment of increased salaries to heads of eleven departments as a result of the passing of the Public Officers Salaries Bill. The permanent head of the Premier's Department will receive $1,250 as payment for that portion of the increased salary relating to last financial year and, in a full year, he will receive an increase of $4,000 in his salary. The eleven departmental heads between them will receive an additional $44,000 in their salaries of which they will enjoy $11,000 and the Commonwealth Treasury $33,000 from additional income tax that it will collect.

The Labor Party did not object to the payment of these increased salaries, but there is a big difference between the amount of the increase and how much the officers concerned actually obtain in their take-home pay. A person who is granted an Increase of $4,050 will pay in basic tax $2,931 to the Commonwealth and take home $1,119. When an increase of $4,000 is granted to officers such as permanent heads, it is emblazoned across the newspapers and most readers imagine that these men will take home a further $4,000 a year. When we add the 5 per cent surtax we find our friend takes home $972 and the Commonwealth gets $3,078. In restoring the relativity of wages by giving the permanent heads of eleven departments a substantial increase, the Government makes a

Session 1971.-131

presentation of $33,000 to the Com­monwealth Government which in turn loans the money to the State at 7 per cent interest to be repaid over 53 years.

A person whose income is $7,000 a year, on the basis of a 20 per cent increase, will receive an increase of $1,200 of which $540 is presented to the Commonwealth Treasury and $660 is kept by the person. When we come to the ordinary wage-earner who ge~s only $40 a week and is per­haps gIven a 25 per cent increase amounting to $500 a year, the Com­monwealth Treasury obtains a bonus of $92.60.

The Commonwealth Government has been doing this for years and then talks magnanimously about the money it provides for the States at 7 per cent when in reality it is our own money. These facts should be pointed out t? the ordinary citizen, so that he WIll realize that when a permanent head or a judge receives a huge increase, most of the increase goes to the Commonwealth Govern­ment.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North­Eastern Province) . - The Final Supplementary Estimates represent the balancing of the accounts for the previous financial year. The money has already been spent so honorable members can do nothing other than approve the measure. Mr. Tripovich referred to the cost of increased salaries and wages which it is not possible for the Government to esti­mate when it is preparing the Budget. Substantial allo~ations are necessary for the HospItals and Charities Commission and the Social Wel­fare Department in order that those departments may take care of those for whom they are responsible. If the figures for those two depart­ments were analysed, probably it would be found that the additional allocations relate to increased wages and salaries.

Mr. Tripovich has pointed out that although the State increases the salaries of its employees, instead of

3750 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] . Adjournment.

all the money going to those con­cerned, most of the money goes to the Commonwealth Government. All honorable members have been aware of this for many years and arguments have taken place between the State and Commonwealth Governments on whether Victoria receives its fair share of Commonwealth moneys. This is something upon which the two Governments continue to dis­agree and the argument will probably ensue for many years to come. As the amounts represented in the Final Supplementary Estimates could not be estimated by the Government, the Country Party supports the Bill.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was read a second time,

and passed through its remaining stages.

ADJOURNMENT. CHRISTMAS FELICITATIONS.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-By leave, I move-

That the Council, at its rising, adjourn until a day and hour to be fixed by the President or, if the President is unable to act on account of illness or other cause, by the Chairman of Committees, which time of meeting shall be notified to each honorable member by telegram or letter.

The motion was agreed to.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-1 move-

That the House do now adjourn.

On the eve of the festive season I convey to you, Mr. President, the thanks of everybody for the digni­fied and impartial way in which you have conducted the affairs of the Council. I am quite sure that you have the respect of all honorable members. I speak for every member of the House when I say that I ap­preciate the qualities of character which you have and the man that you are. Sir, it has been a pleasure to work under your presidency.

1 take the opportunity of thanking the Leaders of the Labor Party and of the Country Party for their co­operation in connection with the

business of the House. There are many times when we confer for the smooth operation of this Chamber. We can take pride in the way in which the business of this House is managed. I cast no reflections anywhere else, but I am quite sure that the co­operation of the Leaders of the parties with the support of their Deputy Leaders and members in general has contributed much to the smooth working of the House.

I thank myoId friend, Mr. Galbally, for his co-operation. Of course, there have been times when we have crossed swords. There have been times when I have had to be ex­tremely careful, because for fourteen years or thereabouts the Government was one down on every vote. If one had any ability at all to negotiate and a little diplomacy, it had to be de­veloped during that period.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-There is no need to boast about being one up.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER.­Apart from that, I thank Mr. Galbally sincerely for his friendship and co­operation. That goes for his Deputy Leader, Mr. Tripovich, too, who acted when Mr. Galbally was absent. Mr. Tripovich is extremely hard-working. The work and time that he puts into Bills makes him a very worthy Deputy Leader and a worthy successor to Mr. Merrifield, who worked assiduously when he was deputy to Mr. Galbally.

Mr. Swinburne is not quite the father of the Parliament, but he will have to be careful or he soon will be. I thank him for his help and co­operation in the workings of the House. Without them the business of the House would become quite difficult. I am sure that Mr. Swin­burne is proud of having a Deputy Leader of the calibre of Mr. Mansell, and I thank Mr. Mansell, too, for his assistance.

In my own team, we have Mr. Byrne, who has been elevated to the position of Deputy Leader in this

Adjournment. [2 DECEMBER, 1971.] Adjournment. 3751

House. He succeeded a very dis­tinguished gentleman, Mr. Hamer, who will make his mark in this Par­liament. He is doing so now and he will do so even more in the years that lie ahead. I thank Mr. Byrne, Mr. Dickie and Mr. Hunt. I am sure that all honorable members will agree that Mr. Hunt has handled the Bills which have fallen to his lot in a masterly way. His explanations of various matters have been lucid and clear and he has contributed much to the operations of this House. I thank Mr. Granter, the Whip of my party, and I also express my thanks to Mrs. Coles, who works with Mr. Granter at the Premier's Department, in chas­ing up the answers to questions, in seeing that notes for Bills are pro­vided, and so on. Mr. Granter knows that he has the goodwill of the other Whips in this House, and I thank him for his co-operation.

I also thank the magnificent back­benchers on the Government side of the House. There have been times. of course, when I have suggested that they do not contribute anything further to a Bill. There have been occasions when they have seen fit, on their own judgment, to go ahead and make speeches which they believed were absolutely necessary for the information of the House. I do not argue with that; I thank them. I do not regard myself as being dictatorial. I am Leader of what I believe is a very good team on this side of the House. .

I also thank the table staff, the gentlemen who conduct the adminis­trative business of the House, for the work they have done. The Clerk, Mr. McDonnell, is overseas and I am sure that he will reap great benefit from his trip and that the knowledge he gains will be useful in the future conduct of the business of this House. During his absence, Mr. Grose has proved himself to be an outstanding deputy. All honorable members will agree that we should thank Mr. Grose for the work he has performed, along with Mr. Evans and

Mr. George Oliver and the other members of the staff who officiate around the House.

I say once again that this House has contributed much to the welfare of this State and I am quite sure that, in the years ahead, it will contribute much more. I believe the friend­ship and the relationships we have here between parties is second to none in any Parliament.

After a rather strenuous session, I conclude by wishing the Leaders of the parties and everybody else, including our friends of the Hansard staff, who have had a long trying period over the past few weeks, a very happy Christmas and a bright and accident-free 1972.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Mel­bourne North Province). - Our first task, of course, is to thank you, Mr. President, because you are the embodiment of the impartiality and fairness of a House of Parliament. If the House has confidence in you it can perform its functions in the way it ought. We acknowledge your devotion to duty, your impartiality and your kindly handling of the House.

The Leader of the House, my opponent Who has been thrashing me these past fourteen years-Mr. Chandler-is a man's man and I am proud to have been his opponent. There is nothing mean about Gilbert Chandler. Of course, he will fight you tooth and nail, but he does it with vigor and fairness. He is a man of extraordinary patience and kind­ness. He is always keen to meet the wishes of members of this House, and we thank him for it. Of course, in debate he can show his fangs­unkindly at times-but we all admire him for it.

I wish to thank the Clerks for their absolute discretion, almost to the point of secrecy. They would be masters in the art of international diplomacy. There would not be any leaks to the press from them. They

3752 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

would go around the world in a Disraeli-like tradition, always models of patience and endurance.

Then, of course, there is the House staff. Members may go home com­plaining about long hours but never think of the House staff. I also wish to thank the Hansard staff, who make our speeches on any subject look reasonably respectable, and even in telligen t.

In our Librarian we have, I think, for the first time in our history a miss, if you please, and we are all proud of her.

Then there are my friends in the Country Party. Mr. Swinburne has been here for many a long year. Of late, having weighed all matters with great consideration and fairness, he has not found it necessary to sit on our side as much as on the other side of the House, but no doubt that is purely due to an accident of fate and, in due course, on issues to be raised in the future he will understand that our party is the more logical one and we can see him as a friend next year.

I almost forgot to mention the gardeners. I do not think I have mentioned them before. Honorable members do not use the gardens enough. Perhaps I might be pardoned for making reference to what we would all be pleased to call the younger members of the House. I do not mean young in point of years, but younger, perhaps, in wisdom, knowledge and understanding. We welcome them to the traditions of debate in this Chamber and hope that when we are gone they will carryon in the same spirit of fair­ness and forthrightness, and a lack of personalities.

The Chairman of Committees, of course, is seen in a dual capacity. Sometimes when the Committee is debating a measure we often sigh for the help of Mr. Nicol, only to find that he is not present. As Chairman of Committees he acts in the highest tradition.

The Ron. J. W. Galbally.

I hope I have not overlooked any­one, but I am sure I have done so. To my patient followers I say, "Thank you". I also express my thanks to my Deputy Leader and my Whip, who are always conscious of the fact that they have. to look after me, attend to my whims and not excite my displeasure.

From the Ministers whom Mr. Chandler has to lead we have re­ceived the same unfailing courtesy.

Mr. President, I do not wish you to think for a moment that in saying all these pleasantries I do not regard this as a House of debate-and at times fierce debate. I hope it always will be so and, as you said to me some hours ago, the debate we had this morning was one in which there was a good deal to be said on both sides and it was said strongly and, at times, warmly.

Now, Sir, as another Christmas approaches I ask the House to pardon me for referring to a personal matter. For nigh on twenty years I have had the one driver, and now he is leaving me. It must be matter of no small moment for a man to drive you around year in and year out and still put up with you. I have been hon­oured to have such a companion. He is leaving the Premier's Department and is taking on a station in life which I hope will be to his benefit, but I do acknowledge his service to me and his companionship.

Now, Mr. President, I wish all honorable members a very happy and, if I may say it, a holy-to use that old fashioned word-Christmas.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province). - Mr. President, on behalf of members of the Country Party, I should like to express to you our sincere apprecia­tion of your adjudication of this House over the year. Of course, at all times we have respected the deci­sions you have handed down on various occasions and the way in which you have kept us on the matter before the House. It is very easy

Adjournment. [2 DECEMBER, 1971.] Adjournment. 3753

to stray, especially by a few inter­jections, but you, Mr. President, have always tactfully kept us within relevance or nearness to the Bill. We do appreciate the fellowship and courtesies you have extended to members of our party.

Myoid friend, the Leader of the House, Mr. Chandler, almost made me feel that I had been here too long when he said that I might take the crown from him as "father" of the House. How­ever, that stage is a few years off yet. In that capacity, he enjoys the respect of every member, not only of this House, but of the whole Parliament, and everyone associated with him throughout the State. As Mr. Galbally said, he is one of nature's gentlemen. Although he may disagree strongly at times, he does it in a most gracious manner. Over the years, he has displayed great tolerance.

I recall that some years ago I was a member of the Government and he was a member of the Opposition. I was seated at the table handling a minor but difficult Bill from which something was missing. With his astute brain, Mr. Chandler dis­covered the omission and pointed it out to me. I asked him not to men­tion it, and he did not raise the ques­tion. I have always thought that that was a gentlemanly act towards a young Minister. Since then, when I have perhaps tended to be a little hard, that incident has come to my mind and I have adopted the view, " Don't ride it too hard because there is always another day". However, I appreciate the courtesies which the Minister has extended to my party and to me personally.

I have appreciated the personal approach of his fellow Ministers, Mr. Byrne, Mr. Dickie and Mr. Hunt, in connection with the business of the House. They have done their best to meet the wishes of my party wherever possible. I realize that when one has the numbers it is always a little easier to say, "No" than it would otherwise be. In any

case, we appreciate the courtesy and the personal approach which the Ministers have adopted. On behalf of my party, I say " Thank you" to the other members of the Liberal Party for the fellowship and the combat which we have enjoyed with them in this Chamber.

Over the years, myoid friend Mr. Galbally and I have had many and varied experiences. As deputy to Sir Percy Byrnes, I had a close asso­ciation with Mr. Galbally's previous deputy, Mr. Merrifield. He and I had a kind of secret service which operated very effectively, and we knew where we were going. Mr. Merrifield had an uncanny knowledge of where Mr. Galbally was going, and that is saying something. We were able to work together very happily. On one occasion, he remarked that I had got away from the old habits. I was thinking tonight, when the House was debating a Bill, that it had taken our party four or five years to get into a certain position and then to our amazement we found our friends going the other way. I do not know whether it was our fault or theirs but at least we appreciate the fellowship of members of the Labor Party. Their Deputy Leader, l\1r. Tripovich, who might be referred to as a man of many words, has followed Mr. Merrifield very ably and well in that capacity.

I thank all of the members of this Chamber for their comradeship. I C'ffer my thanks to my worthy and loyal deputy, Mr. Mansell, and also to the other members of my team for their loyalty and the manner in which they have stood behind me throughout this year. We have en­deavoured to express in this House the views of the people whom we represent. No leader has a more loyal or more closely knit team than I have in this Chamber, and I thank them all.

My friends at the table, Mr. Grose, Mr. Evans, and Mr. McDonnell, who is absent at present, have carried on the high traditions of the Clerks who have sat at the table over the years

3754 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

and have guided us when we have required guidance. As Mr. Galbally said, one sometimes thinks one gets a little inside information which no­body else is given, but as debate pro­ceeds one finds that the Clerks have also advised the other side. They have a difficult row to hoe, but they do it very effectively, and I thank them on my party's behalf for their assistance.

The Hansard reporters have re­corded our speeches and have done a good job with them-probably better than they deserve at times­and we appreciate their work. We also appreciate the actions and courtesy extended to us by the housekeeper, Mr. Oliver, and his staff around the Chamber. Possibly we, as country members, have a closer association with the staff than some other members have because we spend a lot of our time around this Chamber during the week when we are in Melbourne. Their courtesy is much appreciated by members of my party. I express our sincere thanks to all the other staff in the Library, the gardens, the refreshment rooms and around the building.

I return to you, Mr. President, and your worthy deputy, Mr. Graham Nicol. Sometimes we have a bit of a spar with one another but we still enjoy good relations. I think Mr. Nicol sometimes adopts the attitude that I am a bit aggressive, and he tries to keep me in my place and under con­trol, which I know is a bit difficult. Anyway, I hope he will occupy the position of Chairman of Com­mittees for many years to come and that I am here to continue the battles with him from time to time.

On behalf of my party, I wish all honorable members a happy Christ­mas and a safe Christmas period. I trust that we will all gather here again in the New Year. Whatever the issues before us, we will debate them with the same spirit that has been displayed in this House over the 26 years that I have been a member.

The Hon. I. A. Swinburne.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL (Monash Province) .-1 thank the members who have had a few kind words to say about the Chairman of Com­mittees. I assure them that I shall have the greatest pleasure in convey­ing those sentiments to him. I do not want to strike a sour note on an occasion like this, but I feel I must direct the attention of the House to a gross misleading of this Chamber. In the past week or two, I have heard a number of members say, "I am only going to say a few words." I am surprised that the House has not taken note of those misleading statements. I wish you, Mr. Presi­dent, all members of the House, and all members of the staff a merry Christmas and a happy reunion in 1972.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Before putting the motion, perhaps I may be permitted to say a few words, particularly a few words of thanks. I thank the Leader of the House, Mr. Galbally, and Mr. Swin­burne for the generous and kind words they have spoken about me. It is an honour and a privilege to serve in this chair in this Chamber, and I appreciate it very much. If anything I have done has been acceptable, I am more than repaid. As Mr. Gal­bally mentioned, it is a fact that this is a great debating Chamber. We all appreciate it, particularly today when we are all tired and tempers could be frayed and there have been some difficult matters to debate, but those who have objected to certain matters in legislation have done it within the forms of the House and with dignity. That is something of which we can all be proud.

Firstly, I wish to thank the Leader of the House, the Minister of Agri­culture. I have known him, not as long as perhaps Mr. Galbally and Mr. Swinburne, but for about fifteen years. We served together as mem­bers for Southern Province for twelve years, and I know his worth in the electorate as well as in this House. He is a diplomat. The fact that this House runs so smoothly is largely due to the fact that he exhibits tact

Adjournment. [2 DECEMBER, 1971.] Adjournment. 3755

and gets first-class co-operation from the Leaders of the other parties. That is preferable to wielding a big stick. During the year the Council lost Mr. Hamer, a fine man and a grand Minister, whom we greatly respect. However, his place on the Ministerial bench has been t:1ken by Mr. Hunt, and we congratu­late him on the way in which he has stepped into his new duties and carried out a first-class job in this Chamber and outside it.

We also congratulate Mr. Murray Byrne, whom we congratulated last year on becoming a Minister. This time we congratulate the honorable gentleman on becoming Deputy Leader. We appreciate the tactful manner in which he has handled the matters he is required to handle in the House, which has been much appre­cia ted by all.

Mr. Dickie is at present away on Parliamentary duties, and by now he may be interstate. We appreciate the hard work the honorable gentleman puts into carrying out his duties. We are very fortunate in having four excellent Ministers in this Chamber.

I should also like to thank the Leaders of the parties. Last year I said I should be sorry to see Mr. Gal­bally leave this establishment. He keeps us on our toes. He is a great scholar of the classics, even though on one occasion recently he did not quote the Bible correctly. On every occasion his quotations of the classics are greatly appreciated. We appre­ciate the energy and ability he puts into his work. I thank him for his co-operation with me.

I also thank Mr. Galbally's deputy, Mr. Tripovich. At the drop of a hat he can speak for from five to 120 minutes and it is all good solid matter, which proves that the honor­able member does his homework before he rises to speak. I appreciate the co-operation I have received from Mr. Swinburne. All members of the House have been very co-operative. At times members of the Country

Party differ from the Government, but that is what they are there for. I thank them for their co-operation and for doing their homework before rising to speak, which is always appreciated by honorable members in this Chamber. The same applies to Mr. Swinburne's deputy, Mr. Man­sell, whom we all appreciate. I thank the Chairman of Committees Mr. Nicol, for the assistance he ha~ ~iven me during the year, not only In the Chamber but on various duties outside. Mr. Nicol is always willing to help and carries out his task in a first-class manner.

I also express my thanks to the temporary Chairmen, Mr. Gross, Mr. Bradbury, Mr. Fry and Mr. Knight. Those honorable members are always present in the Chamber and ready to assist when required. The party Whips, Mr. Granter, Mr. Walton and Mr. Mansell have a most thankless task to perform, but in the four years I have been in this position we have never failed to have a quorum. That is a compliment to the members and to the Whips, and I thank them.

The Clerk, Mr. McDonnell, who is also Clerk of the Parliaments, is over­seas at the moment, as the Leader of the House said. The experience he will have gained will be of advantage to honorable members. He has always been most helpful, and I am sure he will be even more helpful when he returns. During his absence, we have been fortunate to have a man of the ability of Mr. Grose to take his place. In these few months, Mr. Grose has performed his task in a splendid man­ner. I thank Mr. Grose for the cheer­ful way in which he has carried out his duties over this period.

I have had a lot to do with Mr. Evans, the Acting Clerk Assistant. We have had much business to carry out between ourselves, quite apart from his work in the Chamber, and it is always performed with speed, effici­ency and ability. I thank Mr. Evans for what he has done. The Clerk of

3756 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

the Papers, Mr. Mithen, carries out his tasks most efficiently. All honor­able members appreciate the way the Librarian, Miss McGovern, carries Gut her duties. I was glad to hear it men­tioned that for the first time this Par­liament has a lady Librarian. For some time it was thought a lady should not occupy that position, but she is there and no one could do a better job for every member of the House than Miss McGovern has done. As I am Chairman of the Library Committee, I have a lot to do with her and I appreciate her efficiency very much.

I also wish to refer to the Hansard staff and the Chief Reporter, Mr. Stuart. This year they have had the hardest task they have ever had. They have produced one-third more pages of Hansard than ever before. This was contributed to by the fact that the sittings in another place were protracted. The results can be seen in the thickness of the books which are published each week. Members of the Hansard staff have carried out their duties cheerfully. On one occasion they reported continuously for approximately 32 hours. This is a wonderful achievement and we extend to the Hansard staff our sincere thanks.

I also thank the members of the refreshment rooms staff. We regret that Mr. Barry is away ill at present, and hope he will return in the New Year in better health. In his absence, Mr. Burton has provided excellent meals at all hours of the day. Whether we sit late or early we are well looked after as regards the inner man. I thank Miss Green, my secretary, who has been of great assistance to me during the year. She has been away on an overseas trip but returns this week-end. During her absence I have received excellent co-operation from the young ladies who have been taking her place. We appreciate the service we receive from the members of the typing staff.

The President.

Honorable members appreciate the detail which Mr. Oliver, the House­keeper, puts into the carrying out of all his duties. He is dedicated to his job and adds great dignity to this establishment. We thank Mr. Oliver and his staff for their assistance.

Mr. Tynan, the engineer, comes into the same category. He works at all hours and has a difficult job to do. He performs it with great efficiency and readiness at all times. I also thank my driver, Mr. Fred Gotts. He has not been with me for twenty years-Mr. Galbally stated that his driver had been with him for that period-but he looks after me very well and makes life much easier. It is grand to have a good driver. The same remarks apply to Mr. Collins. I appreciate all he has done during the year.

The head gardener and his staff deserve the thanks of all honorable members. When one is rather tired, a walk in the gardens after dinner is most refreshing. The gardens are beautifully laid out and maintained.

We also thank our police friends and are pleased to have Mr. Mummery back, after a long illness. We appreciate the co-operation we receive from him, and it is a pleasure to have him back.

I hope I have not forgotten anyone. If I have, I extend to them sincere thanks. I wish everyone a very merry Christmas, a prosperous New Year, and a safe return to his home, especially those members from far­distant places. I wish you all a safe period during the Christmas holiday.

The Hon. 1. A. SWINBURNE.-And keep off the roads!

The PRESIDENT.-That is good advice, Mr. Swinburne. I look for­ward to seeing everyone back here in the autumn sessional period.

The motion was agreed to.

The House adjourned at 11.19 p.m.

Questions [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] on Notice. 3757

mtgislatiut <ttulturil. Tuesday, February 29, 1972.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) took the chair at 4.53 p.m., and read the prayer.

COUNTRY ROADS BOARD.

FINANCE: WORK FORCE.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) (By leave). -The first question on the Notice Paper, which is listed in my name, has been carried forward from the last sessional period. I understood that the replies to unanswered ques­tions were to be supplied to honor­able members during the recess. I believe tha t was the undertaking given in the House. Now it is difficult for me to ask questions the answers to which have become re­dundant. However, to meet the forms of the House, I shall ask the follow­ing questions of the Minister for Local Government:-

(a) What funds were available to the Country Roads Board during the years 1969-70, 1970-71, and are available in 1971-72, in each diviston of the State and in the Port Phillip district?

(b) What was the work force in these years in each such area?

(c) How many men have been dismissed by the board in each such area since 30th June, 1971?

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) (By Leave). -The Minister of Public Works in­formed me that Mr. Swinburne in­tended to raise this issue and he has raised it most properly. Mr. Swinburne may recall that on the last day of meeting I was paired when I attended a convention and arrived back at the House late in the evening when Mr. Swinburne was speaking on the Christmas felicita­tions. I did not hear the undertaking given to Mr. Swinburne, nor was I aware of it. If I had been aware of the position, I would certainly have supplied Mr. Swinburne with the answers to these questions. I have seen Mr. Swinburne on several occasions since the last sessional period, although I am not suggesting for one moment that there was any onus on him to mention the matter to me on those occasions. However, in the future I shall make ita prac­tice to ensure that any questions left unanswered at the end of a sessional period will be answered by letter.

The answers to Mr. Swinburne's questions are lengthy, and I seek leave of the House to have them incorporat­ed in Hansard without my reading them.

Leave was granted, and the answers were as follows:-

(a) The amounts set out in the accom­panying table were expended during the finandal years 1969-70 and 1970-71 and are estimated to be expended during 1971-72 by the Country Roads Board on road and bridge works. Separate records are not maintained for the Port Phillip district.

EXPENDITURE ON ROAD AND BRIDGE WORKS. FINANCIAL YEAR . . _.

1969-70 1970-71 1971-72 Board Board Board (Estimated)

C.R.B. Division super- Council Total super- Council Total s~J:!er- Council Total vision super- vision super- vIsIon super-

vision vision vision

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Bairnsdale .. 2,302,000 964,000 3,266,000 2,542,000 1.061.000 3,603,000 2,526,000 1,073.000 3,599,000 Ballarat .. 2,150,000 2,183,000 4,333,000 3,317,000 2,205,000 5,522,000 2,100,000 2,301,000 4,401,000 Benalla .. 4,050,000 3,281,000 7,331,000 4,056,000 3,417,000 7,473,000 3,267,000 3,475,000 6,742,000 Bendigo .. 2,465,000 3,819,000 6,284,000 2,559,000 3,933,000 6,492,000 3,796,000 3,859,000 7,655,000 Dandenong .. 8,827,000 6,043,000 14,870,000 12,571,000 6,556,000 19,127,000 13,612,000 7,098,000 20,710,000 Geelong .. 3,335,000 2,302,000 5,637,000 5,555,000 2,346,000 7,901,000 5,135,000 2,294,000 7,429,000 Horsham 1,888,000 2,516,000 4,404,000 2,148,000 2,738,000 4,886,000 1,764,000 2,549,000 4,313,000 Metropolitan : : 13,531.000 4,237,000 17,768,000 9,169,000 5,116,000 14,285,000 8,225,000 5,248,000 13,473,000 Traralgon 2,143,000 2,668,000 4,811,000 2,537,000 2,835,000 5,372,000 2,214,000 2,890,000 5,104,000 Warrnambool. . 2,104,000 2,730,000 4,834,000 1,936,000 2,857,000 4,793,000 1,954,000 2,920,000 4,874,000

Totals .. 42,795,000 30,743,000 73,538,000 46,390,000 33,064,000 79,454,000 44,593,000 33,707,000 78,300,000

Session 1972.-132

3758 Questions [COUNCIL.] on Notice.

(b) The work force employed by the board on road and bridge works carried out under the board's direct supervision was-

1971-72 C.R.B. As at 30th As at 30th as at 31st

Division June, 1970 June, 1971 January. 1972

Bairnsdale .. 237 225 214 Ballarat .. 193 161 193 Benalla .. 330 341 308 Bendigo 227 216 228 Dandenong 350 360 317 Geelong 245 234 249 Horsham .. 194 217 203 Metropolitan 96 91 123 Traralgon .. 184 207 199 Warrnambool 178 191 190

Totals .. 2,234 2,243 2.224

(c) The number of men dismissed by the board through no work being available from 30th June, 1971, to 31st January, 1972, was-

C.R.B. Division

Baimsdale Ballarat Benalla Bendigo Dandenong .. Geelong Horsham .. Metropolitan .. Traralgon Warrnambool

Total ..

No of men

16 5

42 4 4

10 20

41 5

147

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

EASTERN FREEWAY: ACQUISITION OF

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government).-The answers to these questions are lengthy and I seek leave of the House to have them incorporated in Hansard without my reading them. .

Leave was granted, and the answers were as follows:-

(a) No. Agreement on compensation is yet to be reached with the owners of the following properties:-

(i) No. 39 Bendigo Street, Collingwood No. 2 Elm Grove, Kew No. 125 Belford Road, Kew C.T. V.5678 F.527 Kellett Grove, Kew C.T. V.3570 F.851 Kellett Grove, Kew

(ii) In respect of part of the properties known as-

No. 81 Alexandra Parade, Collingwood No.3 Maugie Street, Abbotsford Lot 243 River Avenue, Kew Lot 244 River Avenue, Kew Lot 247 River Avenue, Kew Lot 248 River Avenue, Kew Lot 253 River Avenue, Kew Lot 254 River Avenue, Kew Lot 256 River Avenue, Kew Lot 276 River Avenue, North Kew Lot 148 Kellett Grove, Kew

(b) Of a total of 104 houses to be acquired, 101 have been 'acquired 'and of these 93 have been demolished.

Of a total of 12 flats to be acquired, all have been acquired and demolished.

Of a total of 7 factories to be acquired, 6 have been acquired and 3 hav'e been demol­ished.

(c) The total 'amount of compensation paid for acquisitions to date is $5·065 million.

PROPERTIES. UNSEWERED PREMISES.

The Hon. R. J. EDDY (Doutta The Hon. R. J. EDDY (Doutta Galla Province) asked the Minister Galla Province) asked the Minister for. Local Government- for Local Government-

(a) Have all the properties listed for How many premises are not sewered in acquisition by the Melbourne and Metro- . the metropolitan area, stating the munidpa­politan Board of Works for the construc- lities concerned? tion of the Eastern Freeway been acquired; if not, which properties 'are still subject to The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister negotiation? for Local Government) .-As the

(b) What was the total number of homes, answer contains some lengthy detail,. flats, ·and factories demolished? . I seek leave of the House to have it

(c) What is the .total amount of com-. incorporated in Hansard without m.Y pensation paid' for these acquisitions? . rea~ing it.

Adoption of Children [29 FEBRUARY, '1972.] (Amen4ment) Bill. ·3759

Leave was granted, and' the. answer was as follows:-

The schedule which follows lists the occupied properties for which sewerage .facilities are not available within each muni­cipality within the area for which l1he Mel­bourne and Metropolitan Board of Works is at present the sewerage authority.

The figures represent the position as at January, 1970.

Municipality

Altona Broadmeadows Camberwell Chelsea Diamond Valley

No. of unsewered premises

3763 1814

74 4878

Doncaster and Templestowe Eltham

2911 9406 3097

Heidelberg Keilor Melbourne Moorabbin Mordialloc Northcote NunaWlading Oakleigh Preston Ringwood Sandringham Springvale Sunshine Waverley Werribee Whittlesea Williamstown Croydon Knox Lillydale (part) Sherbrooke (part) Chelsea Heights Craigieburn Diamond Creek Hampton Park

692 6268

35 3971

103 31

4590 671

1252 2622

9 852

3407 7392 417

4223 42

6884 11867 2249 3324 430 275 594 315

The total for the municipalities in ques­tion is 88,458 to which can be added approximately 2,179 for the remaining inner municipalities not listed, making a total of 90,637.

A further survey is to be made early in 1972.

ADOPTION OF CHILDREN (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Adoption of Children Act 1964.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. ORDER OF BUSINESS.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-1 move-

That the consideration of Order of the Day, Government Business, No. I, be postponed until later this day.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) .-1 should like the Minister to indicate whether the Government intends to proceed with the Dentists Bill. The measure has aroused a good deal of 'controversy and sug­gestions have been made to members of the Country Party that several amendments to the Bill could be moved. Could the Minister indicate whether the Bill will be further con­sidered, whether it is proposed to submit amendments to it, and if so whether copies of the amendments could be made available to the parties concerned for consideration and discussion?

It is difficult to consider a Bill at the second-reading stage when it is known that amendments may be moved in Committee. If honorable members are advised of the nature of any proposed amendments, unneces­sary homework would be alleviated.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-On behalf of the Minister of Health, 1 am unable to give all the assurances sought by Mr. Swinburne. Represen­tations concerning the measure have been made to the Minister by many groups in the community. The hon­orable gentleman is attending an official function today and 1 know that he is considering the represen­tations which have been made by members of Parliament and by other sections of the community.

1 give Mr. Swinburne an assurance that honorable members will have ample opportunity of examining well in advance any amendments which may be presented. It has not been the Government's policy to force legisla­tion through this Chamber anq 1 trust that the Government has always

3760 Adoption of Children [COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

extended to honorable members all the necessary 'courtesies concerning any amendments which may be pro­posed. Although I do not know whether amendments will be pre­sented, I know that the Minister is considering the representations that have been made to him. I give Mr. Swinburne an assurance that hon­orable members will receive copies of any proposed amendments before they are discussed in this Chamber.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) .-Perhaps the Minister could clarify whether he means that honorable members will receive copies of proposed amendments before the second-reading debate is resumed, or before the Bill is con­sidered in Commi ttee. I think Mr. Swinburne's point was that the amendments should be available before the resumption of the second­reading debate.

The Hon. MURRA Y BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-My assurance related to the period before the second-reading stage.

The motion was agreed to.

ADOPTION OF CHILDREN (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) .-1 move--That this Bill be now read a second time.

The Adoption of Children Act 1964 and the similar legislation of other States contain uniform basic provi­sions which originated from discus­sions in the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General. Some time ago a conference of welfare Ministers of all States and the Commonwealth agreed that some amendments to those uniform provisions were desir­able but, having regard to the origin of the provisions, the amendments then proposed were referred to the Standing Committee. The Bill con­tains provisions approved in principle by that committee and settled in consultation with welfare autho­rities of each State.

As the various matters dealt with in the Bill are unrelated, I propose to 'comment on the clauses in tum. Clause 1 contains the usual citation and commencement prOVIsIons. Clause 2 proposes the repeal of para­graph (b) of section 25 of the prin­cipal Act, which concerns consents to adoption executed in other States. Where it is not known when a con­sent is signed in another State that the child is to be adopted in Victoria and the appropriate authorizations made, it becomes necessary because of that paragraph for the mother to be approached a second time to obtain her authority for the Director­General, or a, private adoption agency, to make arrangements for the child's adoption. Quite frequently this second approach has been found to be very emotionally disturbing, particularly if the mother is a single girl, and it is clear that this second approach should not be necessary or required at all. Indeed, the mother's whereabouts are frequently unknown and in such a case the requirements of the paragraph become a barrier to the adoption of the 'child rather than protection of anyone.

Section 26 of the principal Act enables a consent to adoption to be revoked in the manner indicated in the section, and amongst other things requires service of notice upon the Registrar of the County Court. However, section 18 of the County Court Act 1958 provides that at every place at which the court is held there shall be one or more registrars, and the court at present sits in eighteen places throughout Victoria. Occasionally applicants for adoption have been put to great trouble estab­lishing the absence of revocation of consent, which involves showing that no revocation is filed in any of those eighteen places. Of course, this was never intended. To centralize the filing of revocations, and avoid searching in more than one place, clause 3 proposes amendments which will require revocations to be filed with the Registra'r of the County Court at Melbourne.

Adoption of Children [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] (Amendment) Bill. 3761

Clause 4 proposes to make several changes with respect to guardianship. The substantive effect of sub-clause (1) on sub-section ( 1 ) of section 31 of the Act is to add a new para­graph (aa) , as paragraph (a) of the sub-clause restates in the sub-section what is now in the proviso which the Bill proposes to repeal. The insertion of the proposed paragraph (aa) will enable the Director-General to re­nounce guardianship on releasing the child to the natural parents if this occurs. It occasionally happens that a child left with the department for adoption is, for some reason, not adopted and the only practical course when this is plainly evident is for the child to be returned to the custody of its natural parents if pos­sible.

Sub-clause (2) inserts in section 31 a number of new sub-sections, which will become sub-sections (2) to (5). Sub-section (2) clarifies the position of a child upon a release being exe­cuted under sub-section (1), due provision being made to exclude a child placed for adoption. Sub-sec­tion (3) proposes that the Director­General should now have a discre­tion whether or not to accept guard­ianship of a child in respect of whom a general consent to adoption has been given. The Director-General cannot now reject a child the subject of a consent to adoption, and some people have discovered that signing a con­sent to adoption is a simple means of ridding themselves of onerous res­ponsibilities. The use of this device was never intended and will be re­moved by the new sub-section.

Sub-sections (4) and (5) provide a procedure whereby children may be transferred to other States for adop­tion there and vice versa. Sometimes when it is difficult to place a child in one State, an adoption can be arranged in another State. The pro­cedure is confined to State directors and envisages that when a child is handed over to welfare authorities in another State, the Victorian director will renounce guardianship in favour of the director in that other State.

Clause 5 proposes to amend section 41 of the principal Act by extending to New Zealand its provisions for the recognition in Victoria of adoption orders made in other parts of Austra­lia. This will mean that for all legal purposes, New Zealand orders will be on the same footing as orders from other States and may be acted upon as if made in Victoria without any necessity for a judicial declaration of validity, which would otherwise be required under sections 42 and 43 if New Zealand were to be treated as a " foreign" country. The orders of all Australian States are freely recognized and acted upon in New Zealand and it seems obvious that this reciprocal provision should be made.

Under sections 42 and 43 of the principal Act the only procedure for recognizing a "foreign" adoption order is judicial in nature, and results in a recognition order being made in the Supreme Court. These provisions follow the model Bill approved by the Standing Committee of Attomeys­General in 1964. Later Queensland and Tasmania added provisions for " declaring" countries whose orders would be recognized as effective in terms of the Australian Acts. Under these provisions recognition remains a judicial procedure, but the proofs are simplified by the declarations~ The new sub-section (2A) of section 42 proposed in clause 6 will enable the Governor in Council in appro­priate cases to make a declaration in relation to adootions under the law of a foreign country or countries. The declaration and the production of an order from the declared country would raise sufficient presumptions to dispense with all but the most ele­mentary proofs. However, the court would retain its existing power under sub-section (3) of section 42 to refuse to reco!ffiize an adoption unless it were satisfied.

Clause 7 amends section 58, which requires notice of an adoption order or an order discharging an adoption order, where the child was born in another State or in a Commonwealth Territory, to be sent to the births

376~ Local Government . [COUNCIL.] Bill."

registration officer in that State or Territory. The purpose of the pro­vision is, of course, to enable the births records to be noted with parti­culars of the Victorian order. The clause proposes to amend section 58 by extending its provisions to coun­tries proclaimed by declaration under the new sub-section (2A) of section 42.

Clause 8 covers the opposite situa­tion to that in clause 7. This clause will enable the Government Statist in Victoria to note his records with par­ticulars of "foreign" orders in res­pect of adoptions, by the proposed extension of section 59 to orders recognized under Part III. of the Act.

Besides having been agreed to by the Attorneys-General, the welfare Ministers and agencies of all States, it should be readily apparent from the explanations I have given on the individual clauses that the Bill seeks to make worth-while improvements in existing procedures, to remove difficulties and to streamline those procedures. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of the Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 7.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT BILL. The debate (adjourned from Octo­

ber 26, 1971) on the motion of the Hon. A. J. Hunt (Minister for Local Government) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Mel­bourne North Province) .-This Bill was introduced last sessional period. You will recall, Mr. President, as will the Minister, that honorable members asked that the debate on the Bill should be adjourned until this year. The Minister will now appreciate the reason for doing so because if he has received even half of the correspon­dence that I have received, as I am sure other honorable members of this

House have received, on the thoughts of local municipal councils relating to the proposals in the Bill, the honorable gentleman will realize that all is not well. Indeed, a number of amendments will have to be moved to carry out the intention of some of the clauses.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I agree with Mr. Walton that the time given was fully warranted and by arrangement with him I did not press the matter last sessional period. .

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-I thank the Minister. His predecessor, Mr. Hamer, also saw fit to adopt a similar approach and he learnt by ex­perience that it is wise to give the councils an opportunity of stating their views on proposed amendments. The councils are the ones most affect­ed by how these provisions will work in practice, so they have to examine the clauses and make their decisions accordingly. Some of the sugges­tions I have received from councils are worth while and some are frivolous. Some councils want one thing and others want something else but out of it all a better Local Government Act will be obtained.

The Local Government Act is comprehensive legislation 'and honor­able members know that when pro­posed amendments to the Act come before this House they are usually large in number and varied. As the proposed claus'es are individual in their content, I shall deal with them separately.

Clause '2 takes away from persons the right to have legal representation before the Local Government Advi­sory Board. The board is appointed to inquire into the constitution of muni­cipalities, the altering of boundaries of municipalities or the annexing of portions of one municipality by an­other. A number of boards have been appointed in the past and one board was responsible for the intro­duction of legislation relating to the Shire of Mildura and the City of Mil­dura. Currently, another inquiry has been proceeding for some months. In

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Bill. 3763

my office I have the first three volu­mes of evidence given before the board and they cover the first sixteen or seventeen days of evidence. There­fore, it is not surprising to find a local government advisory board recom­mending that legal representation should not be permitted in proceed­ings before the board unless, of course, it is with the permission of the board. A request for representation must be made in writing and received by the board at least 30 days before the hearing is due to commence.

On a reading of the proposed amendment, it would seem that per­sons will lose their right to have legal representation before this board, but as the subject-matter of the in­quiry is usually not a matter 'Of law but one of common sense, it is probably a reasonable request by the board that persons should not be per­mitted to have legal representation.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The present system could put ratepayer organiz­ations at a real disadvantage.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-That is true. It could place some at a great disadvantage because if there is a confrontation between a rate­payers' organization and a business interest in the city, the business interest could afford to spend thou­sands of dollars on legal represent­ation, whereas the ratepayers' organ­ization or perhaps a single ratepayer could not afford to spend a large sum. A ratepayer could put only his own case. If the ratepayer has a solicitor to act for him, this will be very costly. Therefore, in the balance of things, the clause is not unreasonable.

Clause 3 of the Bill proposes to allow the Governor in Council to appoint a day for the holding of an election to fill an extraordinary vacancy caused when a councillor has retired because he has committed an offence against the Local Government Act. The Minister has said that cases occur occasionally where, because of an oversight, the chairman Dr the council fails to fix the date for an

.extraordinary election within the pre­scribed period. The honorable gentle­man also said that the proposed amendment would permit a date to be fixed in these cases in compliance with the statutory provisions. As I understand it, the Act provides that if the chairman or the council has fail­ed to set this date the election shall be held on the fortieth day. Therefore, there is scarcely any requirement for this provision to cover that situation.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The present position was too inflexible.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-It could be that the position was too inflexible. Clause 4 of the Bill permits the burning of ballot-papers by the town clerk or an officer authorized by the town clerk. In the past the town clerk has had to do this in the presence of three council­lors. It does 'S·eem rather irksome to require three councillors and a town clerk to get into the mayoral car and to go tri pping off to the local tip or the nearest incinerator to set fire to the ballot-papers. The burning of papers at a tip is usually an offence against council by-laws, so perhaps I should say "to the nearest incinera tor ".

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Mr. Walton would have done that himself.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-I agree, and I am sure that other mem­bers of this House who have been municipal councillors have had to witness a burning.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Do they watch for the white smoke, Mr. Walton?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-I am sure that the smoke disappeared twelve months earlier, Mr. President, as well as any black or blue smoke which might have gone with it. The town clerk or someone authorized by him can now do that. It could be said that it has been left open for a per­son who is not really connected with conducting the election to peruse these papers, hut I do not think much

3764 Local Government [COUNCIL.] Bill.

would be gained if such a person did so. The Labor Party agrees with the clause.

My party intends to oppose clause 5. From time to time measures which proposed to make it easier for municipal councillors to have deal­ings with their councils in their ordinary, day-to-day business have been introduced; and we have pOinted out to the House that this is a very dangerous practice. This measure goes one step further: A person who happens to be a shareholder in a company which owns a subsidiary company that he knows nothing about and with which he has no dealings could be committing an offence. Under this measure he would have to prove-if anybody took him to court-that he did not know of this company, and that would be diffi­cult. I cannot see how he could prove it nor how anybody could disprove it; nevertheless, the Government has made it slightly easier for councillors to deal with their councils.

This is an appropriate time to draw the attention of the House to the con­tents of a letter I have received from the Regional Council of Ratepayers and Progress Associations of Northern Victoria. The letter points out that a tender was let to the mayor of the city, and the organization concerned expresses its opposition to the law which allowed this to happen. It reads-

1 am instructed to write to inquire re the bona fides of members of municipal councils being entitled to tender for projects let by their own 'council.

·1 enclose a cutting from the Echuca Riverine Herald of October 27th, 1971, where the Mayor of Echuca, Cr. A. E. Rosendale, was the successful tenderer to a contract called by his council to build the pre-school centre at Echuca East.

Apparently the law relating to pecuniary interest has been amended to allow this kind of practice to go on, so 'as you 'are interested in the various types of mal­practices in Government and semi-Govern­ment authorities, 'it might be appropriate to check the extent to which this amend­ment may find itself extending.

The Hon. J. M. Walton.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) .-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. The honorable mem­ber has made a fairly serious allega­tion, and he has not quoted the date of the letter or informed the House who wrote it.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-The honorable member mentioned who wrote the letter, but he has not yet mentioned the date.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Mel­bourne North Province) .-1 deny that I have made any serious allega­tions. I have made no allegations at all. I am reading correspondence which I have received.

The PRESIDENT.-I believe Mr. Walton's explanation is correct.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE.-Who wrote the letter?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-Mr. Clarke will be informed in due course -when 1 reach the end of the letter. It was received on 6th December, 1971. I cannot see the date on it, but the item which appeared in the local newspaper was in the edition of 27th October, 1971, at page 3. The letter continues-

The point is that if a mayor or a coun­cillor can win a council contract to his personal or business benefit then it can be forecast that people whose business depends to any extent on council contracts will be seeking election to councils for that purpose. It could happen that all coun­cillors in a municipality are those who compete for its contracts and we might genuinely wonder to what extent graft and corruption will rise.

It is our view that members of councils should not be permitted to have pecuniary interests in the workings of council in any shape or form.

1 do not think any allegations are made in that letter; indeed, it says that the law relating to that situation has been amended to permit it to happen, and that that is what they do not like. I do not like it, either. 1 regret that I have had to mention his name, but 1 do not think Coun­cillor Rosendale has done anything wrong. He has probably acted within the law, and he has acted in a

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Bill. 3765'

way which is permitted by the Local Government Act. I am not suggest­ing anything to the contrary; I am saying that, as the law has been amended, the position has completely changed from what it was ten years ago. The best a person could then do was to sell goods from his shop for a few dollars-in fact, a member of the council at Keilor had to resign because he sold a pick handle.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-That is why the law has been altered.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-Yes. It was all right when there was a limit. If an employee broke his pick handle and got a new one from the shop and then went back to his work, it is probable that he saved the council money. However, that was a different situation. The employee then went to the shopkeeper whom he knew to be a councillor. In this case these people are tendering for jobs which are let by the council. My point is that there was a limit of 50 pounds imposed some time ago, but . it is now an open go. A councillor has merely to declare his interest, walk out of the council and not take part in a vote or a dis­cussion. When he does that, the sky is the limit.

There is no suggestion in the letter to which I have referred-and I did not make any suggestion-that the gentleman concerned did anything which was contrary to the law; and if what I have said in any way reflects upon him, I apologize. I am trying to prove my point, namely, that this Parliament should do nothing to ex­tend the way in which councillors can deal with their own councils.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I take it that it was the lowest tender.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-Yes, to clear up that matter, I shall read the article which appeared in the local paper.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE.-Who wrote the letter?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-It is signed by " J. A. White" and it is on paper bearing the letterhead of the Regional Council of Ratepayers and Progress Associations -of Northern Victoria. The article reads-

Tenders submitted by four firms were taken out of the tender box and opened during Monday night's meeting of Echuca City Council. Rosendale's tender of $19,775 was the lowest price submitted.

In some circumstances the lowest price is not always accepted and the council may have been justified in giving the tender to this gentleman because he is a local man with local knowledge, who would give local employment and probably do a better job than others. His work would certainly be known in that municipality. In reply to Mr. Clarke, who is interjecting, I could not expect to have the knowledge of the local member about the matter. Appar­ently the local member has not received a letter from this organiza­tion. The organization may not have the confidence to write him a letter similar to the one it has sent to me, but I have taken the opportunity of raising the matter in the House.

By an amendment to section 243, clause 8 allows municipal councils which have received an amount of money in excess of $100,000 from the sale of capital assets to put this into a special account for special purposes, with the approval of the Governor in Council. It also en­ables them from time to time to pay into the fund amounts of not less than $25,000. This is a worthy pro­posal. At times councils do receive large amounts of money from the sale of capital assets. The Minister cited two cases. One was the sale of a quarry and the other related to the handing over of land for a free­way. In both cases, the councils raised large amounts of money and they did not wish that money to be­come dissipated in the general fund, as can easily happen. This is a worthy objective. In fact, the pre­scribed amount of $100,000 could have been lower and the amount which from time to time may be

3766 Local Government [COUNCIL.] Bill;

added to it could have been what­ever sum the council saw fit to add because the sale of a capital asset will not always realize an amount of $100,000.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Has the honorable member received repre­sentations suggesting the reduction of either of the amounts?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-No. In my view, councils that sell capital assets and have a lesser amount than $100,000 may prefer to participate in this by setting aside the amount in question for some future project within their municipalities. I suppose a line must be drawn somewhere in this type of measure, and no doubt the Minister has acted with a know­ledge of the amount of money that these two councils have received.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-It was vastly more in each case.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-If, in future, it is brought to the Minister's attention that some municipality has, say, $75,000 from the sale of capital assets, I hope that council will be permitted to put this into a special fund for a special purpose.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I am most receptive to the suggestion and will be happy to discuss it with the hon­orable member outside the Chamber.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Clause 9, which inserts a new sec­tion 244 in the principal Act, allows councils to expend moneys out of the municipal fund on a number of additional services. The new section relates specifically to social services. At present if a council wishes to appoint a social service worker to as· sist with some of the problems in the municipality, it must do so out of the moneys that do not exceed 3 per cent of the general rate revenue. If 3 per cent of the rate revenue has already been absorbed, the council may find itself in the position of not being able ~o appoint the social service worker.

The idea is commendable but, as members of the Opposition have said to the Government on many occasions with regard to the responsibilities that are being placed on municipali­ties, these facilities should be sup­plied by the State and Federal Govern­ments. In other words, social workers should be appointed to all municipalities by the State Govern­ment through the Federal Govern­ment. Not only the ratepayers of a municipality, but also the taxpayers should support this type of scheme.

Members of the Opposition also suggest that it might be possible to include in paragraph (f) of sub-sec­tion (1) of proposed section 244, which provides that these moneys can be used for "the establishment of and the maintenance and assistance of any youth club or organization or of any other body" the words "or ser­vices". The paragraph concludes with the words" concerned with the welfare of youth". The suggestion is motivated by the fact that some­times in addition to the establish­ment and maintenance of organiza­tions or bodies, individual acts, deeds and services warrant the assistance of a municipality. The provision, taken literally, means any body or any organization. To extend the scope of the provision as I have suggested would allow the municipality to provide money within the municipality for some other avenue of youth wel­fare which otherwise may be precluded.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Is it part of the honorable member's suggestion that a municipality should be able to apply funds directly to youth services rather than through a proper organiza .. tion?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-In some circumstances, activities in a municipality in the field of youth welfare are not actually sponsored by a youth body or organization. I have in mind, for example, the successful youth exposi­tion in the City of Springvale and the development of a newspaper

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Bill.'

entitled Nemesis published by young people in Nunawading. Under the proposed new section, those two ex'amples may be excluded although the municipality may have been prepared to contribute to them. At the appropriate time in Committee, the Opposition will move an amend­ment which, if adopted, will embrace such projects. In the meantime, I shall be grateful if the Minister will give this matter his consideration.

Clause 10, which amends section 251 of the principal Act, deals with the back payment of rates by charit­able organizations which have claimed exemptions from rating on properties because they are used for charitable purposes. Honorable members are aware that under the present law, an organization which disposes of this property must pay five years' back rates. Apparently some organizations have attempted to get around this provision and circumvent the payment of five years' back rates by first letting the property for a few weeks, paying the ordinary rate on the property for a proportion of the year, and then selling it as an ordinary property. Some smart individual will always try to evade the law, and it is regret­table that a charitable or religious organization found it necessary to use the law in this manner in an attempt to avoid its responsibilities. It is also provided that for the purpose of assessing the back rates the valuation applicable in the preceding five years shall be used. This will assist the or­ganizations concerned, as values al­ways increase; they rarely come down. Any valuation that was made a few years earlier would be bound to be lower than the current valuation.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The section provides double relief also in that if it is let for two and a half years there will be only two and a half years' back rates.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-The Minister, and indeed, most honorable members, will have received sub­missions concerning clause 11.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-More sub­missions were made on' that clause than any other.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON~-That is right. I think the best way' I can explain one of the situations is by referring to correspondence received from Mr. J. Stanford, who is a valuer at Portland. Mr. Sandford states, inter alia-

The amendment to the definition of net annual value will have the effect of allow­ing people to hold large tracts of un­improved and semi-improved lands free of rate liability, owing to the inability of the land to command a rental value. An example would be--

100 acres of timbered land with a value of say, $50 per acre = capital value $5,000.

Under section 254, the net annual value would be assessed at net rental value or 5 per cent of the capital improved value, whichever is the greater: Thus for rating purposes the net annual value would be assessed at 5 per cent of $5,000 = $250.

Under the proposed amendment, the net annual value would be 'assessed at the net rental value or 5 per cent of the capital im­proved value, whichever is the lesser.

Obviously timbered lands and semi­improved lands generally have very little rental value as farm lands and therefore would become virtually rate free.

A municipality must have . a certain income, and if any land is rate free other ratepayers have to pay an addi­tional share to cover the sitliation.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-What about farmers who are suffering from the current rural difficulties?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-I should think a number of farmers are suffering at present. The Minister can explain his point later.

Clause 12 will allow a council to supply the valuation of a property for a fee. It has been found that a con­siderable amount of the work in a council rate office is taken up by per­sons requiring valuations of proper;. ties within the municipality for gain or reward. The ratepayer has always had the right to inspect the rate books. This proposal would seem to preclude ratepayers from doing so in

3768 Local Government [COUNCIL.] Bill ..

the future unless they pay a fee to obtain the valuation of a particular property. I cannot see why a rate­payer would need to inspect the rate books. In the past, the valuation of a property has been included in the municipal voting roll, but when plural voting was abolished this procedure Was no longer necessary and its ex­clusion meant a great saving of ex­pense to municipalities.

At present, a ratepayer does not know the value of his property other than as stated on his rate notice, and what is more important he does not know the value of his neighbours' properties. A ratepayer usually in­quires at the rate office so that he can compare the value of his pro­perty with that of his neighbours. Of course, he takes no action if he finds that he is not paying as much in rates as his neighbours. In future, the municipality will have the power to charge a fee if a ratepayer wishes to obtain a valuation. Estate agents are among the main offenders; they visit municipal offices almost daily request­ing this sort of information, which can be valuable to them because they can ascertain comparative values of properties. Furthermore, the pro­posal will give municipalities another means of raising revenue which they all need badly.

Mr. Tripovich has asked about organizations which require the full list of valuations in a riding. In his second-reading speech, the Minister pointed out that some candidates ~or municipal elections had sought copIes of rate books purely for the purpose of electioneering at the annual elec­tions. I do not know whether or not that is a good practice.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The rate­payers' roll will still be available. That is a different matter.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-That is so. Persons or organizations interested in rating reform might require this sort of information from the rate book. Under the proposal, they would be required to pay $1 for each valuation requested. This may

seem to be a little hard on any organ­ization which is interested, not for any personal gain or anything of that nature other than to make compar­isons for the purpose of preparing submissions to the Government. I thank Mr. Tripovich for his sugges­tion; perhaps the Minister will con­sider the position of such people at a later date.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I gather that, on balance, you support the concept of the clause.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-I do, on balance. I must confess that I gave it serious consideration because, probably like the Minister, I had sub­missions for and against, and I could see no point in charging an estate agent a fee if any ratepayer could obtain the same information for nothing. Obviously, estate agents would circumvent the provision by sending a member of their staff to obtain the information. There would be few occasions in a person's life­time when he would wish to obtain from a municipality the valuation of his property just as a matter of interest; he would usually do so for gain, perhaps for the purpose of selling his property or of purchasing another.

The provision contained in clause 15 will allow a person who is on a full social services pension to have his rate payment deferred without having to prove that he is in necessitous circumstances. I consider that this is a worthy proposal. It more or less highlights the fact that persons who are on a full pension are in necessitous circumstances.

The Hon. H. R. WARD.-Do you include persons on a fixed income, such as superannuation?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-Mr. Ward should address his question to the Minister.

The Hon. H. R. WARD.-I am seek­ing your support.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-The Minister has seen fit to grant this concession only to persons who are

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] . Bill. 3769

receiving the full Commonwealth pension. I have been asked about the position of persons on other pensions, such as those totally and permanently incapacitated, and I intended to ask the Minister whether he would explain in Committee whether or not such people are included or whether he proposes to include them at a later date.

The provisions contained in clause 19 relate to that section of the Act which requires a subdivider to give 5 per cent of his land or cash to the value of 5 per cent of the land to a municipality to provide open space. The section exempted two-lot sub­divisions. Apparently, some subdi­viders have avoided this obliga­tion if they had large tracts of land which could be divided into two­lot subdivisions. They first sub­divided into a two-lot subdivision and then divided those two subdivisions into two-lot subdivisions and thus avoided having to provide 5 per cent of the land for open space. Members of the Labor Party supported the original provision in the Act and we see no reason why we should not support this proposal.

I hav'e referred to the main matters that I wish to raise during the debate. In Committee, I will move a number of amendments and will oppose clause 5.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL (North­Western Province) .-Over the years many amendments have been made to the Local Government Act and during the debates on the various Bills honorable members have been able to observe the part played by local government throughout Vic­toria. It would appear that the Minister proposes to follow the policy adopted by his predecessor by working closely with the Opposition parties in regard to amendments. It is apparent that certain amendments will be proposed, but at this stage it is not known what form they will take.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Mr. Walton is the only member who has fore­shadowed any amendments.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-The Minister has been a member of this House long enough to realize that all sorts of discussions take place between the parties. I understand that certain amendments will be forthc~ming; if they are not, my party IS prepared to propose them. The previous Minister for Local Government invariably provided an opportunity for members of my party to talk with him on these matters, and we prefer that it should be done that way.

My party is not happy with the wording of proposed sub-section (4) of section 17 provided in clause 2 of the Bill. The board to which the new provision refers is an advisory board to which parties will be making certain appeals mostly in regard to annexations of other areas the formation of new municipalities: or the resubdivision of municipal districts. Organizations are in a position to follow this procedure but when an individual propose; to appear before the board, or a court, or even before a municipal council it is li~~ly that he doe~ not know th~ pro­VISIons of the prInCipal Act or his rights, or even be aware of' the by­laws. The proposed sub-section pro­vides that not less than 30 days before the date of the commencement of the inq.u~ry the person must apply in wrItmg to the board for permission to have legal representation in the sub~ission of his case. The big bUSInessman already has trained personnel available to him to do this but the ordinary ratepayers, wh~ comprise the majority of the people wi th whom I am concerned, do not fully understand the provisions of the Act. A ratepayer may approach his local member of Parliament when it is too late and there is not time for him to lodge an objection. A classic example of this situation occurred in an annexation where a number of people contended that they did not know what they should do.

3170· Local Government . . [COUNCIL.] , '-Bill~' ' :

. The Hon. D'. 'G. ELLIoT.-Was that in the Shire of. Mildura?"

The Hoil. A. R. MANSELL.-I had not'intended to mention it, but the argument still has not been settled. If legal opinion had been available to these people to go before the advisory board there might have been a different story. Clippings from the local newspaper which I have in my possession' indicate that these people are preparing a case.

I do not wish to cast any doubt on the advisory board, but there is always a tendency for its members to say, "This person is going to put up a good man to oppose this matter, so we must take a good look at it ". My party is not happy with this pro­vision in the Bill and considers that the period of 30 days is too long.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Do I gather that it is the form of the provision ra ther than the concept tha t you oppose?

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-We feel that people should have the right to have someone to represent them on appeals. The Minister has had sufficient legal experience to know what happens to a lot of people in the circumstances. They can be overcome by nervousness. Although their case might be well prepared, when they appear before the board they are unable to do justice to them­selves. The Minister, town clerks and other municipal officers may be well aware of the position, but the ordinary John Citizen, as well as many people in responsible positions, do not know their rights. This provision will make it hard on peopl,e who really need assistance. I am not concerned about those people who know how to fend for themselves.

With the exception of two amend­ments, practically all t~e provisions of clause 9 are already included in the Act and are being put into effect. It is well known what is happening in municipalities where a tremendous amount' 'of money -'is' being put into the' development of tourist facilities .. In the Swan 'Hill area: one can see

what 'can' be done by joint action between two municipalities. ,As 1 understand this clause, the City of Swan Hill and the Shire of Swan Hill can spend money within their own boundaries but cannot spend outside those boundaries. A tour­ist bureau is functioning in the heart of the' City of Swan Hill, where the people are doing a marvellous job in developing tourism. The folk museum is an asset to the State and what is being done in Swan Hill is an example to other municipalities. My party is prepared to agree to the amendment of paragraph (c) of sub­section (I) of the proposed new sec-, tion 244 by the addition of the words " within or outside a municipal district". There should be no fear of malpractice occurring because municipalities are careful of the way in which they spend their money. It is in the interests of the municipality to see that the money is spent for the benefit of the district. I ask the Minister to have a serious look at this aspect.

My party is opposed to the provi­sions of paragraph (d) of sub-section (I) of proposed new section 244 and agrees with the point of view expres­sed by Mr. Walton. It is felt that it should be the responsibility of the Commonwealth Government to pro­vide the facilities to which this para­graph refers. My colleagues and I do nO't believe that no assis­tance, sq.ould be given for chari­table purposes or to those who are in need, but this assistance shotiid be given from the heart. If the day should come when people do not give voluntarily to those who are in need it will be a sorry time for this nation. Recently, in an address on geriatrics, a doctor stated that one never sees Italians in old people's institutions. Yet, they are fullo! Australians. Itali­aUSaccept the responsibility of look­ing after their elderly people. Austra­lians want to pass them' on to the State, and this is bad for us as a nation.- Some of 'this new blood coming in might do us good.' ,

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] . Bill. 3771

.' In the meantime, something should be done by the Commonwealth Gov­ernment, or by the State, but not through local government. This Bill is a move to bring about the provision of social services by municipalities, but who will provide the funds? Will it be the ratepayer, the State Government, or the Federal Government? I agree with the Premier, who stated that, if municipalities do certain social work which is not their obligation, it is of no use asking the State for funds for that work. However, this Bill pro­vides for municipalities to accept the responsibility for this sort of work.

In Mildura, for instance, the local people are providing funds for social welfare work rthrough the hospital committee, for the homes for the aged, for Darby and Joan homes, for deaf children, the blind, the social we1fare sister, and so on. The Rotary Club works for charity, and so do Legacy, the Returned Services League Welfare Committee, the Lions Club, the Apex Club, the Jaycees, the Ben­evolent Society, the Red Cross, and the church groups. There are others which do not come to mind.

Now, as well as having these or­ganizations providing help, the Bill provides that municipal councils should do more. The local council is already helping under the 3 per cent system. It provides assisltance to the Benevolent Society, for the homes for the aged, and for the geria­tric section of the hospital. The principal Act already provides that a certain amount of money can be dis­bursed in that way. That should be enough when the money given through voluntary organizations is taken into account. If these provi­sions are to opera:te, the House should be given information on where the money will come from.

Clause 10 allows retrospective rat­ing for five years. If some person or organization was trying to make money out of a property which had been exempted from rates by getting around the provisions of the Act, I 'could understand this provision being applied, but I cannot imagine

churches or benevolent organizations acting in that way. Many of them have been legitimately conducting charitable institutions for periods of five years or more in particular pro­perties under a law which gave them freedom from rates at that time. Now the Government is adopting the atti­tude that, if a property is sold, rates will be collected for five years back.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The honor­able member is ,wrong; that provi­sion has been in the Act for some time

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-It is not right. If they were to be charged rates, these organizations should have been stopped at the beginning, or they should be told that from now on, if they are going to get out of a property or use it for business purposes, they will have to pay rates. But they should not be told that, even though they have been functioning as charitable organizations quite legally for the past five years, under the new rating system they will be charged rates for the past five years.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The pro­vision has been in existence for some time.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-I realize that, but it is wrong in prin­ciple to go back five years when an organization has functioned quite properly under an exemption from rates. Perhaps I am not making the point clear. I am speaking of organ­izations which have, in all sincerity, used buildings and lands for chari­table purposes, as defined under the Act, for five years past.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-So long as the properties are used for that purpose they remain exempt.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-But now, if an organization leaves a property, perhaps as a result of an amalgamation of two churches, or ceases some charitable function for the purpose of economy, it will be charged rates for the past five years during which it carried on a charitable function at that place.

3772 Local Government [COUNCIL.] . Bill.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Normally such a place is sold because the land on which it is situated becomes too valuable and the organization moves to a locality where lower prices pre­vail.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-When the organization went there, it served the community in all sincerity and development has taken place partly as a result of the service it has given.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-This is developing into a Committee-stage debate.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-I bow to your ruling, Mr. President. The Country Party agrees with the terms of paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of the new section 298 which is pro­posed to be inserted in the Act by clause 15. However, I should like an explanation from the Minister about paragraph (b) which states that a municipality may" excuse the payment of the rate or any part thereof or the interest thereon". I take it that this means that the persons in necessitous circumstances who are concerned will be exempted from rates. If that is so, the Country Party agrees with the provision.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.- The exist­ing position remains with exemp­tions from rates but, in respect of deferment, pensioners will no longer have to provide payment if they are excused by the council.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-If the council excuses them, they do not have to pay it; it is not a charge on them.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-That is in the case of a person who suffers special hardship and the council believes it should remit the rate and interest.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-If that is so, the Country Party is pleased with the provision.

Clause 17 relates to bridges, roads under repair, and so on. It would probably be satisfactory in cities, towns, and perhaps boroughs, where

the councils meet once a week. In the shires, the councils may meet only on the first Wednesday of each month. A truck may cause a crack in a bridge and the shire engineer must repair the bridge or limit the load which is carried over it. How­ever, clause 17 provides that he must obtain the approval of the council before doing this. The clause should make provision for a municipality to delegate the authority to the muni­cipal engineer, perhaps after consul­tation with the shire president, to allow him to regulate the type of traffic, load, speed, and so on, on a damaged bridge.

The Country Party agrees with clause 19, which proposes to extend to two-lot subdivisions the provisions which enable councils to require that 5 per cent of any area of land being subdivided shall be transferred to the council for a place of public resort and recreation or that . the cash equivalent be paid to the council for the purchase of land.

Clause 5 relates to pecuniary inter­ests of councillors. If I were a shareholder in the parent company of a subsidiary company which was contracting with the local municipal council, as an investor I would want to know what was going on. Accord­ingly, the amendment proposed car­ries no weight with me ·as I believe a shareholder should still be aware of the activities of the subsidiary company which is tendering with the council. At this stage I shall let that matter pass.

I have received a letter from a municipality querying the position concerning the allowance paid to the chairman. To my mind, it is a sum of money legally allocated by the council, but I should like the Minister to make a statement on this matter at a later stage.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The pro­cedure is to declare the allowance before the chairman is elected; if the chairman is elected first, he must not vote on the question of the allow­ance.

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Bill. 3773

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-But that is not the president.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-It refers to the president or the mayor.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-I think it is legal, but I should like the Minister to clarify the matter. A further. query relates to the refund of the deposit to a successful candi­date at a municipal election. Over many years when I have sought re­election as a councillor, I have paid the deposit in bank notes, which have been counted, placed in an envelope, sealed and placed in the safe until after the election. When I have been re-elected, the envelope has been handed to me and I have signed a receipt. I am not suggesting that this procedure is illegal, but the municipality concerned asks whether the elected candidate who receives his deposit back has a pecuniary interest.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-No, the Act specifically authorizes him to get his deposit back.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-I should not think so, but I ask the Minister to answer the query. The Country Party agrees with clause 6, which will empower councils to charge a fee not exceeding $1 for any permit granted under a by-law. I wish that all permit fees were only $1, instead of the greater amounts which are charged.

I agree with Mr. Walton concern­ing clause 8, which will enable coun­cils to create reserve funds for specific purposes when large sums of money are received as a result of some unusual transaction. The amendment provides that the appro­val of the Governor in Council will be required and that a minimum amount of $100,000 will be necessary to justify creation of any such reserve. This minimum may be suitable for city municipalities, but to country municipalities it is a vast sum of money. Even an amount of $50,000 may still be too high, but I suggest

that the clause should be amended to bring the minimum at least down to that figure.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I shall be happy to confer with Mr. Walton and Mr. Mansell on this clause because only the minimum amount to be pre­scribed and not the principle is in question.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-I should like the Minister to answer the few questions that I have raised. I shall reserve any further comments until the Bill is being considered in Committee.

The Hon. F. S. GRIMWADE (Ben­digo Province).-This is an interest­ing measure. Every year a Bill to further amend the Local Government Act is presented to Parliament. I congratulate the Minister for Local Government on following the ex­ample of his predecessor. The measure embodies provisions ranging from ordinary machinery clauses to matters of some importance. Contro­versy has raged mainly on three clauses and it has been engendered mainly by a circular forwarded to all municipalities by the Municipal As­sociation of Victoria.

The provision which is perhaps attracting the most attention is clause 9, which authorizes councils to ex­pend moneys on social services. All honorable members who have been involved in municipal affairs realize that municipalities are entering further into this field. I do not think the councils regret the move. Many realize that the municipal council is the correct body to oversee these matters of a local nature. Indeed, the council is the correct body to establish priorities for expenditure on social welfare services. Many honorable members will be pleased that muni­cipalities are taking this work unto themselves. The expenditure comes out of the 3 per cent of revenue from general rates for purposes not ex­pressly authorized or prohibited. A certain amount of discussion has ensued on whether the expenditure should be limited to 3 per cent or

3774 Local Government ,[CQUNCIL.] .Bill.

whether the councillors themselves should decide how much a council should spend in this way.

Initially, I felt that a limit should be placed on this expenditure be­cause the councillors of one munici­pality might be placed in an invidious position if a neighbouring muni­cipality was spending large amounts of money on social welfare and their municipality could be forced to follow suit. Upon reflection, I feel that this matter could well be left to the good sense of the councillors. After all, a councillor has to face the ratepayers at election time, and if money is spent unwisely he may not be re-elected. Accordingly, I do not share the opposition to this clause expressed by the Municipal Association and the Country Party. I believe the provi­sion should remain in the Bill. All honorable members would like to see a great deal more money made avail­able to local government by the Federal Government so that municipal councils could be assured of finance for social service work. I hope this will occur in the not too distant future.

The Hon. W. M. CAMPBELL.-I hope Commonwealth grants are never made direct to municipalities.

The Hon. F. S. GRIMWADE.-That is an expression of opinion which perhaps I could debate later with Mr. Campbell. Dr. Colin Clark, the noted economist, in the Sydney press recently suggested that the Common­wealth Government should vacate the field of personal income tax and return it to the States, which in tum should allocate a set proportion of the receipts to finance local govern­ment. I have not heard the sugges­tion made before, and to my mind it is an interesting way of looking at the problem.

Another claus'e which is causing some concern is clause 11, which amends various provisions dealing with the valuation of rateable pro­perty. The clause proposes to"amend the interpretation of "net annual

value". I understand that the pre­sent provision was initially put for­ward to set a minimum level of 5 per cent of the capital improved value as the basis of the net rental which the property could command as being the net annual value. At that stage, I am sure it was not envisaged that a council should take the lesser amount and keep it below 5 per cent. A number of municipal­ities have taken up this matter with the Minister for Local Government and I have received a reply from the Minister on the subject. I have no doubt that an amendment will be proposed.

Clause 15 has also been a subject of discussion. The provision makes it possible for councils, in the case of any person in necessitous circum­stances, to defer payment of rates and leave them as a charge on the property. It provides that any person who is in receipt of a maximum pen­sion under the Commonwealth Social Services Act may apply for payment of his municipal rates to be deferred without having to prove necessitous circumstances. The amendment arises from suggestions by a number of pensioners through pen­sioner organizations that they have found it degrading to have to visit the municipal office and divulge all their secrets concerning their life savings to prove that they are in necessitous circumstances. Generally the council has agreed to defer pay­ment. Paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of proposed new sec-tion 298 as contained in claus~ 15 means tha t councillors can take this course of action without pensioners going through a rigmarole which is degrading to them. Pen­sioner organizations have made this request to me. The proposed new sec­tion does not remove the right of the council, if it so desires, to remit the rates and say to the applicant, "You have proved that you are in necessi­tous circumstances, and the rates will be remitted". It is "fair that the council should have this right.

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] ····Bill.

. Clause 17 proposes' an amendment to . section 545 of the principal Act relating to the right of councils to prescribe maximum speed limits on roads under construction. Because they are the road construction autho­rities, it is sensible that councils should be empowered to define speed limits. In a municipality in which I am interested, the council has been constructing main roads in granitic sand country which carry heavy traffic in dry weather. A great deal of work has been carried out in smoothing sur­faces ready for sealing, but this work can be completely undone over a week-end because of the heavy traffic involved. A week may be re­quired to ~estore the damage and the situation may be repeated the follow­ing w·eek-end. The amendment is sound.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-Is a council meeting called for the pur­pose of defining speed limits?

The Hon. F. S. GRIMWADE.­Council meetings are not called to impose speed limits. The situation certainly needs examination because a council cannot wait for a month or more to hold a special meet­ing to impose maximum speed limits.

Clause 2 proposes a new sub-section (4) to section 17 of the principal Act relating to legal representation before the Local Government Advi­sory Board. Honorable members have expressed some fears on this amend­ment. I have seen what an experien­ced barrister can do in bringing before such a board legal points that can confuse the whole situation and make a complete shambles of the hearing. In many ways it is better that a per­son should be able to present his own evidence. He should be entitled to receive legal opinion, but the presen­tation of the case should be left to the individual rather than to a barris­ter. ,I shall refer to other aspects during the Committee stage. It is a good Bill, and I commend it to the House.

The sitting was suspended at 6.30 p.m. until 8.1 p.m. .

. The Hon. HADDON STOREY (East Yarra Province) .-This Bill proposes amendments to the Local Govern­ment Act; almost every session a Bill is introduced to effect amend­ments to that Act. This is under­standable as' it is a most complex and important Act in the community. Experience shows that from time to time the need arises for amendments to deal with problems which have arisen in the administration of the Act or to correct doubts caused by an interpretation of the Act. This Bill, together with previous Bills amending the Local Government Act, effects improvements which will be of benefit to the administration of muniCipalities and to the com­munity generally. There are two or three clauses about which I should like to make some passing reference at this stage.

Clause 2 deals with the right of re­presentation before boards appointed under section 17, to consider annexations or amalgamations of municipal councils. I have some doubt about the principle contained in the amendment in the clause. In effect the principle is that a person wishing to appear before such a board shall not be entitled to have repre­sentation by someone who is acting for fee or reward. Obviously this applies to members of the legal profession, but it could also refer to other persons.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-Such a person could be a public accountant ..

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.-I am grateful to Mr. Swinburne for his reference to public accountants, as an example. Many persons ap­pear before these boards or other tribunals on behalf of clients. This properly points up ~he prin­ciple to which I wish to refer. In our community there are many people who are not competent to act for themselves in the conduct of their affairs in spheres which' have become very co,mplex and sophisticate,d. For that . reason .. many classes of persons in the . community act for other persons. There are members

3776 Local Government [COUNCIL.] Bill.

of the legal profession, and public accountants, to whom Mr. Swinburne referred. There are also professional advocates who appear in industrial matters before various tribunals and other organizations within the com­munity. The reason for their appear­ance is that they possess a certain degree of knowledge and experience and the capacity to present points of view, attributes which are required in order that the individual's argu­ments can be properly appreciated by the tribunal.

The same principle applies to boards appointed under the Local Government Act. In many cases a board is concerned with finding out facts, and once it has ascertained the facts the board can come to a conclusion. One might say that in preparing one's income tax return, all one should do is present the facts to the Commis­sioner of Taxation and let him draw his conclusions, but becaus'e of the complexities involved many people believe it is better to engage an accountant to do this because he has knowledge of the Income Tax Act and can appreciate the workings of the commissioner's mind.

The clause does make allowance for these appearances because it provides that consent can be given to a person, who is acting for fee or reward, to appear before the board, and this is a principle which is well known in various fields of activity. It applies to appearances before the Coroners Court and before other tribunals or bodies in the community, but what is rather exceptional in this Bill is the provision that consent can be given only where application in writing has been received by the board not less than 30 days before the date of the commencement of the inquiry. That imposes a rather artifical and arbitrary requirement upon con­sent being given to someone to appear for a person who desires to put a particular point of view before the board. It is a requirement which could lead to a person losing his right to have someone appear for him before the board. He may be an

The Hon. Haddon Storey.

inarticulate person or may not un­derstand wha t is relevant or not relevant to the matter that the board is considering, and simply because he does not know the provisions of sub­section (3) of section 17 of the Local Government Act he does not take the necessary action within 30 days before the date of the hearing.

Whilst one can understand that consent will be given in appropriate cases, consent should not be condi­tional upon this requirement of giving notice 30 days before the com­mencement of the hearing. If that is to be the requirement, one might ask what other conditions are needed. When should the person be informed that consent is given or not given so he knows whether he should or should not engage someone to appear for him? I make these 'com­ments so that the Minister can give some consideration to them.

Clause 5 of the Bill proposes an amendment to sub-section (8) of section 181 of the Local Government Act, which covers a councillor who may have a pecuniary interest in some matter under consideration by the council. I support the amend­ment because from time to time councillors might not know whether they have a pecuniary interest, in a rather extended sense, as is provided under the Act.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Coun­cillors would have a pretty good idea.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.-I agree with Mr. Tripovich that they would have a pretty good idea in most cases but the onus would be upon them and it should not be lessened under this amendment.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Should they not disclose all their interests when they take their place in the council?

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.-A councillor may disclose what he believes to be all his interests when he is elected to the council, but he may be a shareholder in Broken Hill Pro­prietary Company Ltd. and he might

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Bill. 3777

not know that a subsidiary company has an interest in a matter that is being dealt with by the council.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-How can he prove that he does not know?

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­That is a very good point. The courts in our community are accustomed to deciding questions of fact-that is, whether somebody did or did not know something-and if this hypothetical councillor can per­suade the court that he did not know at the time, he should not be penalized for taking part in the dis­cussion. It is difficult for him to prove it-perhaps he never can-but if he can prove it to the satisfaction of a court which is used to dealing with questions of fact, he should not be penalized. I t is for him to prove that he did not know.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-Should it not be the other way around?

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­No, because it would be too easy for him to say, "I did not know", and it would be impossible for the com­munity to prove that he did know. The onus should be cast upon him to prove that he did not know; and, if he can, he should not be penalized for taking part in discussions. That is all that is involved in this clause. The Minister for Local Government has pointed out that a person might have walked in in the middle of a discussion and might not have appreciated that the matter being discussed is associated with some­thing in which he is interested.

The amendment contained in clause 9 gave rise to some discussion. It provides that municipalities may expend moneys for certain purposes. I do not want to enter into a discus­sion of whether it should be the Commonwealth Government, the State Government or a municipal authority which should be respon­sible for providing social services, but it is a fact that, to benefit their ratepayers, municipalities have to expend money on social services to meet a local need which cannot be

satisfied by a centrally controlled social services department. This amendment will empower a munici­pality to apply money to social services if it is thought to be desir­able. It already has that power, but it has been limited to 3 per cent of revenue from general rates; this clause removes that limit.

What is required in one muni· cipality may be inappropriate for another, and a council which is answerable to the people who elected it should be empowered to allocate its expenditure in the most suitable way. Its expenditure should be directed to local problems, but it should not be regarded as a sub­stitute for the responsibility of the Commonwealth Government and of State Governments in social develop­ment.

I refer now to the amendment in clause 12, which deals with the furnishing of a valuation of rateable property on the payment of $1. During this debate no mention has been made of the fact that certain administrative costs are involved in supplying a valuation to a person who comes to the counter and it seems reasonable that municipalities should be entitled to make a minimal charge for providing it. If there is any criticism to be made of the amendment, perhaps it is that a per­son who wishes to obtain a valuation of his own property ought not to have to pay a fee. However, when he obtains his rate notice he has a good idea of the value of his property. Others who wish to obtain a valuation should have to pay a fee for it. An organization may want to obtain hundreds of valuations for its own benefit-perhaps even to chal­lenge the way in which municipal finances are used. There will be a cost to the municipality because its officers will have had to devote some of their time to furnishing the valua­tions.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-It would pay $1 for each valuation, would it not?

3778 Local Government [COUNCIL.] . Bill.

, The Hon. HADDON ·STOREY.­Yes, and a person who wanted hun­dreds of valuations would take up a great· deal of the time of council officers.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.­Perhaps there should be a cheaper fee for large numbers.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­Within the confines of this Bill, that would be difficult. With the excep­tion of clauses to which 1 have direc­ted some criticism, 1 believe the pro­visions of the measure will assist in the administration of municipal government in Victoria.

The Hon. O. G. JENKINS (South­Western Province) .-1 wish to refer to clause 2, which is concerned with proceedings before the Local Govern­ment Advisory Board. 1 appreciate the remarks made by Mr. Storey con­cerning a possible erosion of the rights of barristers and solicitors who appear before this board and the possibility tha t this erosion may be extended into other fields. Mr. Storey appears concerned that barristers and solici­tors may be prevented from appearing before the board.

Within the past year or two I have had the opportunity of attending hear­ings of the Local Government Advi­sory Board in connection with the union of certain municipalities. 1 understand that the hearing has been concluded but that the report has not yet been made available. When I was a member of a council in the Geelong district, and the board was hearing submissions from certain municipali­ties in the area, it was obvious that very substantial costs were incurred by the councils and others in making representations to the board.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Would there be a need for a barrister? Could not a layman do, it?

The Hon. O. G. JENKINS.-I gained the impression that some of thefunc­tions of the board may have been frustrated as a result of legal. points and technical procedural matters

which' were raised. There is the pro­vision which gives people the right to make a submission within 30 days~ Perhaps the Minister would examine that provision because it continues, "before the da te of commence­ment of the inquiry". The particular inquiry I referred to continued for a considerable time. As I recall, it ·com~ menced in 1969 and it was towards the end of 1971 before the final sub­missions were being made. It is pos­sible that at the time of the commencement of the inquiry, certain councils, individuals and organizations, would not have known that they would be in­volved or might need to give expert evidence before the board. Whilst appreciating what Mr. Storey said and submitting that the general principle put forward is sound, 1 should like the Minister to further examine tl'ie last two lines in that provision with a view to a possible amendment.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVIcH.-Does the honorable member suggest rep­resentation from the legal profession or would he allow laymen to give evidence?

The Hon. O. G. JENKINS.-Ilt is possible that an expert witness may have to give evidence. In the case in Geelong the late Mr. G. E. Fitz­gerald, a prominent chartered accoun­tant, gave a good deal of expert evi­dence on municipal finances in the mun'icipali1ty involved.

1 refer now to clause 5. Mr. Wal­ton indicated that he had some reser­vations or more than reservations about what he considered to be an undue relaxation in this clause. It is important to remember that in local government m'en are acting in an hon­orary capacity.· A multiplicity of councils exist throughout the State. The majority o:f councillors act with goodwill and excellent intentions. It is a fact that Governments on one le'vel tend to look down on the next layer of government with some sus­picion. Honorable members may laugh. 1 submit that the Federal Gov­ernment looks with some reservations On the activities of the- State Govern-

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Bill. 3779

ments. Equally, State Governments tend to think they know more about the workings of local government than the looal government people themselves. I a'm a great believer in allowing the system time to work. If it fails, one can cast the stone. To suggest this or that will happen is often jumping the gun.

If a man who is involved in some business or has some share interests in others is debarred or has some fear put into him, an excellent man may be prevented from becoming a member of a municipal council. In other words, he 'may have to be an absolute clean-skin with no interest in anything before he can be­come a municipal councillor because he is concerned that at some time or other he may be involved in some action or some action may be taken against him. These cases do occur. A councillor may find himself on the receiving end of some legal action. He is acting in an honorary capacity with good intent. What does he do? Nine times out of ten he resigns and a good municipal councillor is lost to local government.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Why not adopt the New South Wales scheme and let them declare them­selves?

The Hon. O. G. JENKINS.-It will not 'always :work. I defy many shareholders In companies to know all the various activities of their companies. It is all very well to say that a wise shareholder will watch every move of every company in which he holds shares. I do not think he can do 'So. A company may have subsidiaries that deal directly or in­directly with municipal councils and one may not know whether they do or not.

I now wish to refer to the amount of $100,000 referred to in sub-clause (4) of clause 8. The clause appears to indicate that the $100,000 would be received in one sum. What would happen if a municipality was pro­gressively selling land by instalments

or receiving moneys over an ex­tended period? Contracts of sale, particularly for land or other assets of a value of this magnitude, are often paid for over an extended period. Perhaps the Minister will examine that aspect.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-Is the honorable member suggesting $50,000?

The Hon. O. G. JENKINS.-Even that may not fit the particular matter to which I refer.

The only other clause I wish to mention is clause 12. The only representations I have received on the payment of a fee for inspecting the rate book or rate record have come from sworn valuers. I appreciate that these men often re­coup the fees that they pay for the inspection of the book, but often a sworn valuer is called on to give a valuation for a property for probate or other purposes. He may have to inspect many valuations extending over a rela tively wide area to assist in making his valuation.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-He can obtain it from the Valuer-General.

The Hon. O. G. JENKINS.-With those few reservations, I strongly support the Bill.

The Hon. W. G. FRY (Higin­botham Province) .-The Bill has been well covered and I wish to raise only two or three brief matters. Under clause 2 we have been talking of persons being represented by a person acting for fee or reward. Honorable members who have spoken on this subject have assumed that it is only someone outside the council being represented. I ask the Min­ister to clarify that this provision does not apply to council officers who appear.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-No. The Hon. W. G. FRY.-They are

after all acting for fee or reward. The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-They

would be amply protected. It is the other side we are looking at.

3780 Local Government _[COUN~.] Bill.

The Hon. W. G. FRY.-Yes, I am aware of that. Everyone has spoken about that ad infinitum.

On clause 5 I wish to mention the question raised by my colleague re­lating to the interests of various people and the complexity in this modern day of knowing whether as a shareholder one is offending or not. The fact that a person has an interest has given rise to ridiculous situations in councils. For instance, if the question of the rating of bowling clubs aris'es half of the members of the council immediately walk out because they are financial members of a bowling club. Ridicu­lous situations have arisen in which a council has not known and I do not know how councils would know, whether they were infringing a particular holding. For instance, I was involved in the building of a town hall. I suppose practically every company in Mel­bourne had something to do with supplying material for that project and every councillor in the council concerned had some part in it. But how do councillors know the posi­tion? The work is sub-contracted by the builder and no one is quite sure whether he has an interest or not.

I am interested in the provisions of clause 31 because it concerns the rights of councils to uphold their by-laws. It appears to me that there is some duplication and that the referees are to som'e extent taking over the province of the planning appeals tribunal. The clause inserts the words "or in the opinion of the referees the by-law is inconsistent with a planning scheme or interim development order". I consider that that opinion should be given by a planning appeals tribunal.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-This pro­vision is to avoid conflict with plan­ning provisions-not to enable them to intrude in planning matters.

The Hon. W. G. FRY.-I hope that is so. I hope the referees are per­mitted to waive a council by-law only after a planning tribunal has

considered the matter or a planning permi t has been issued. Planning aspects are discussed and argued by the appropriate tribunal, and council representatives are included.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-That is the primary purpose of the clause.

The Hon. W. G. FRY.-The clause does not make the position quite clear. A permit is issued. If neces­sary, the referees should only then be allowed to waive or alter a by-law to allow work to proceed.

Other provisions raise some con­jecture in regard to the referees or the tribunal. If one body makes a pro­nouncement, is that decision binding upon the other party?

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-At present there can be conflict between the two bodies, and this provision is designed to remedy that situation.

The Hon. W. G. FRY.-That is so. The limitation of the power of referees was not easily -won and it took a long time. The planning pro­cess comes first, and only later do the referees step in. With these few reservations, I support the Bill. It gives one an opportunity of praising the unselfish work of hundreds of people throughout Victoria who give their time and their money freely in the cause of local government.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was read a second time.

The HOD. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) .-1 move-

That the Bill be committed on Tuesday next.

I wish to indicate the reasons for moving the motion in that unusual form. They are simple. Much has been said today during the debate which warrants detailed con­sideration by both me and my advisers. I undertake to give that consideration. Contrary to what Mr. Swinburne and Mr. Mansell earlier assumed, I have prepared no amend­ments; nor am I committed to any specific amendments. What has

Local Government [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Bill. 3781

arisen from the debate, which I believe has been valuable, may well give rise to amendments designed to improve the efficacy of this measure, and I shall be considering the nature of such amendments during the forth­coming week. That is why I have moved this motion.

I repeat the indication which I gave earlier that I should be most happy to talk to Mr. Walton and Mr. Mansell on the matter which they both raised. I am sure that on that particular matter we can reach a mutually acceptable amendment. I should like to thank them for the thought they gave to this matter. It has prompted new trends of thought in my mind. If there are any other matters which they desire to discuss between now and the Committee debate, I shall be happy to hear from them and to co-operate in every possible way to obtain mutually satisfactory amendments.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL (North­Western Province) .-1 thank the Min­ister for his assurance. Could the honorable gentleman say when he is likely to be in a position to give honorable m'embers an idea of his amendments so that we will have time to consider them beforehand?

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) (By leave).­During the next several days I shall be in the country the greater part of the time. However, I hope to com­plete any suggested am'endments on Monday and to make them available to Mr. Mansell and Mr. Walton either Monday afternoon, if they will inquire at my office, or on Tuesday morning, to enable them to consider the amendments in advance of the Com­mittee debate. Similarly, if they are contemplating any amendments­although I appreciate that they are in no way bound to do so-the courtesy would be appreciated if they indicated the nature of those amend­ments.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-It is difficult for us to do anything until the Minister decides what he intends to do.

'The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-That is so. Without obligation, it would be of assistance to me if the other parties could indicate any amendments that they have in mind.

The motion was agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT. EDUCATION DEPARTMENT: TEACHER

SHORTAGE IN DOUTTA GALLA PROVINCE: COLLINGWOOD HIGH SCHOOL: WODONGA HIGH SCHOOL: YEA HIGH SCHOOL-WESTERN PORT REGIONAL PLANNING AUTHORITY: PLANNING PERMITS - DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: PRE-SCHOOL EDUCA­TION: ODOURS FROM MEAT WORKS IN WESTERN SUBURBS-PRISONS DIVISION: ILLNESS OF INMATE OF DHURRINGILE PRISON FARM­COUNTRY ROADS BOARD: FREE­WAYS IN NORTHERN SUBURBS­VICTORIAN INLAND MEAT AUTHO­RITY: DELIVERY OF MEAT.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-By leave, and on behalf of the Leader of the House, I move-

That the Council, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday next.

The motion was agreed to.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-1 move-

That the House do now adjourn.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-1 wish to raise a matter of vital importance concerning the shortage of teachers in my electorate. This matter has been causing some concern to the parents of students attending Oak Park High School, Upfield High School, Hadfield High School, Glen­roy High School and a number of other schools in my electorate. A public meeting was called for 23rd February by the parents and friends of Oak Park High School for a dis­cussion-it was not a protest meet­ing-on the subject cc Is our school adequately staffed? If not, why?"

3782 Adjournment. [COUNcn..] Adjournment.

I was invited to attend, as was Mr. Wheeler, M.L.A.; Mr. Schruhm at­tended on behalf of the Mini-ster, and Mr. Reid, Presi-dent of the Victorian Sec-ondary Teachers Association was also present. After discussion, it was admitted by Mr. Schruhm that the school was inadequately staffed, that sufficient teachers were not available for mathematics and science to fulfil a reasonable proportion of the periods available. Mr. Schruhm announced that a new mathematics teacher would take up duty on the following Monday. The meeting was held on 23rd Feb­ruary. The new teacher reported on the Monday. He had twelve years' experience teaching as a Christian brother but not the paper qualifica­tions, and therefore he has gone. The school is still not adequately staffed. I am seriously concerned because Glenroy High School is three and a half teachers short in mathem'atics and science. Children at higher school certificate level were asked to transfer to Oak Park and the principal at that school agreed to take them because of the promised new teacher. Now there is no new teach­er and the subjects of mathematics and science at higher school certifi­cate level are not being taught at the Glenroy High School.

I have asked a question on notice in regard to this matter and draw the attention of this House to the disastrous position existing in this area. The schools have admitted to the parents that they have not got the teachers and that there will be reduced periods for mathematics and science at forms II. and III. levels. Industry and commerce are taking away from education those people who are qualified to teach mathe­matics and science. If industry and commerce were faced with a similar shortage they would pay an addi­tional allowance to . obtain people with the necessary qualifications.

I ask that the Government look into this matter and provide the necessary co-operation with the department. Many years ago a

The Han. J. M. Tripovich.

similar situation occurred in the Victorian Railways when it was difficult to get boys to qualify in telegraphy and at that time any boy who qualified was paid an extra sixpence per day. If people qualified to teach mathematics and science are so much in demand the Education Department must meet that demand and encourage qualified people to enter the department to teach our children these important subjects. The challenge and need are urgent and I ask the Government for immediate assistance.

The Hon. H. R. WARD (South­Eastern Province) .-1 wish to draw to the attention of this House a matter relating to Government administration and involving the Western Port Regional Planning Authority. The principle in law is that which governs the question and operation of retrospectivity in legis­lation, as to whether to punish some­one or give licence to something that has gone before.

The matter I raise relates to Mr. and Mrs. Neil Renouf, of Boes Road, Tyabb, whom I believe are being crucified by the Western Port Regional Planning Authority's dic­tatorial attitude in regard to the validity of a planning permit issued by the Shire of Hastings. This family, as a result of a subdivision and through matters not only related to the Western Port Regional Planning Authority but to another incident involving the present carry­ing out of a subdivision, is suffering greatly in health and is on the brink of financial ruin.

Strange as it may seem, the family still is a supporter of the authority and believes that it will do the greatest good for the Mornington Peninsula and Westernport. I have had a great deal of advice on this matter and tonight have had placed before me a letter from the director of the authority which I believe to be unsatisfactory. While the land is under a cloud because of the actions of the Western Port Regional Planning Authority no buyer or developer will have a bar of

A djour.nment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3783

going ahead with this development, for which a permit has been received from the Shire of Hastings. For the information of the Minister, I shall recite the facts.

On 6th May, 1970, the Shire of Hastings issued permit 193 for build­ing to proceed on lots 4 and 5 in lodged plan No. 5404 for a ,subdivision of land in this area. An organization called Eliza Homes was to construct homes on the lots as part of a negotiation with the Renoufs. Later Eliza Homes went out of business and the construction reverted to the Renoufs, ,but the permit was given in relation to the lots.

On 17th June, 1970, the Western Port Regional Planning Authority objected to the shire permit. From that moment the authority has per­sisted in its objection, no matter how misguided the objection has been.

On 7th July, 1970, the shire dis­missed the objections of the authority by a vote of six to five. On 15th September, 1970, the plan was sealed. Three weeks later, on 7th October, 1970, the Western Port Regional Planning Authority took out an interim development order over the area, of which lots 4 and 5 were part.

In February, 1971, there was a -cross-over of letters between the Western Port Regional Planning Authority and the organization which was representing the Renoufs at that time. One letter was sent out a day before a meeting was held and again the Western Port Regional Planning Authority would not recognize the Renoufs' application. The Renoufs, of course, demand recognition of the fact that they have a perfectly valid permit. No one will have a bar of lots 4 and 5 while this cloud hangs over this area of land.

Wha t I wish to know from the Minister is, firstly, what direction the Minister can give to advise the Western Port Regional Planning Authority on its retrospective powers. Secondly, is it the desire of the Western Port Regional Planning

Authority to licence or punish people because of this question of retrospec­tivity? Thirdly, is the Minister aware of the legal opinion given to the Western Port Regional Planning Authority which casts doubts on the validity of the Shire of Hastings permit 193? Fourthly, what action will the Minister take to deal with a permit issued outside the statutory period of time allotted within the Act, and can the Minister see that the maximum amount of compensation is paid to the Renoufs for the finan­cial loss they have incurred?

Will the Minister also stress strongly to the Western Port Regional Planning Authority that it is entirely wrong to negotiate or even purport to negotiate a perfectly legal situa­tion, and can the Minister point out to the Western Port Regional Plan­ning Authority its responsibilities to people? Will the Minister advise the authority that it must recognize the validity of the shire permit and, further, has the authority advised the Renoufs that it will not oppose development of lots 4 and 5 in the future?

It is my opinion that these people are being crucified by the actions of an authority which ought to know better. I believe the authority has been misled by a legal interpretation which has been amply expressed earlier this evening. This is a problem which faces ordinary people who believe they are in the right. I have placed the matter before the Minister, who has shown me a letter which I declare is unsatisfactory.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-It is not my letter.

The Han. H. R. WARD.-That is so. It is a letter from the Western Port Regional Planning Authority. The Renoufs have given me permis­sion to raise this matter in the House. They believe it affects them person­ally but also it is a matter which can affect other people where retrospec­tivity is concerned in the operation of the law.

3784 Adjournment. rCOUNCIL.] Adjournment.

Finally, the matter not only relates to the Renoufs but also involves a question of what the Government and the Minister for Local Government face in their administration. It is a matter of public significance in regard to retrospectivity and mis­leading interpretations of the law, together with misguided responsibili­ties and a lack of responsibility in relation to individuals. It is also a means of destroying public authority which is built on good intentions. I have raised these questions in the interests of everyone residing in the Mornington Peninsula area.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Mel­bourn·e Province) .-It is always an unsettling, worrying, and frustrating experience to know that a school is not providing a full educational ser­vice to its pupils. We have hundreds of these schools throughout Victoria. Ei ther there are not enough teachers or, as Mr. Tripovich mentioned, there are not enough specialist teachers. But, in the case of the Collingwood High School, there is just not a school. We cannot go much further than that in failing to provide a basic education service. I raise this mat­ter because of the urgency of the situation. Although I recognize that the Minister of Public Works, the Minister of Education, and the Director-General of Public Works, Mr. Serpell, visited the site at the temporary location of the Colling­wood High School today, I feel that the most urgent requirements of the school should be placed on record in the interests of its pupils.

I believe that the Minister of Pub­lic Works will join with me in acknowledging the dedicated work of Miss Watson, the principal of the school, and her staff. At a meeting held on 23rd February, pursuant to a visit to the Collingwood High School by the Minister of Education, the advisory council of the school re­ceived and discussed reports from the princip·al and staff covering the emergency arrangements at the school. The council expressed grave concern at the present situation and,

after consideration, passed certain resolutions. I relate them to the House because I am sure that the Minister would like to comment on the items mentioned. These were the resolutions-

1. That the advisory council records its concern at the serious disruption caused to students and staff by (the delays to the resiting of the school on Darling Gardens.

2. That the advisory council records its wholehearted support for the work of the principal and staff in meeting these circum­stances, and endorses their actions in deal­ing with the emergency situations.

3. That the advisory council agrees to co-sponsor a public meeting of parents~ sltaff and citizens to be held on Wednesday / Thursday 1st .or 2nd March next at which explanations will be made to parents so that morale will not completely collapse, and parents can feel in:formed. This is the reason for the urgency of the matter apart from what is happening to the children. The ad­visory council, which is supported by the principal and staff association of the school, asked that these mat­ters be given urgent consideration-

(a) Rapid speeding up of site works in­cluding paving of s~te areas and completion of plumbing works.

(b) Urgent provision of six portable class­rooms, four being requested to enable the " E" complex to be resited.

(c) Authorization and completion of all arrangemeilits necessary for the use of the St. Andrews hall and Vicarage at South Terrace and Gold Street.

Having seen the plans for the school, I hope it will be completed within the next couple of years. I also hope the plans will be exhibited somewhere in Col­lingwood for all citizens to see, particularly the parents of the child­ren at the school. Mr. Eddy informed me that it will be shown at the Col­lingwood Town Hall. I return to the matters which the school council asked be given urgent considera­tion-

(d) Nomination of 'an officer responsible for co-ordinating a'll aspects of the transfer of Ithe school from Vere Street to Darling Gardens. (The present lack of 'a respons­ible officer has allowed much time to be wasted and the principal t.o be heavily involved in mechanical arrangements).

Adjournment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3785

About ten or eleven years have gone by during which efforts have been made to bring education facilities to this area, but let us forget the past and look to the immediate future.

(e) Preparation of a schedule of dates for the remaining tasks involved in th'e move (including the dismantling -and re­building of the "E" complex) so that the school can programme its activities and in­form students 'and parents ahead of interim arrangements.

These matters were referred to in a letter sent to the Minister of Educa­tion on 6th February by Mr. A. A. McCutcheon, the chairman of the Collingwood High School Advisory Council. The letter concluded-

The advisory council noted, Mr. Minister, that y<?u had yi~ited the. school yesterday, and wIll be gIvmg consIderation Ito these matters. We are sure your concern will be similar to ours, namely, that every effort must be made to improve the preseIllt situa­tion as speedily as possible.

We request, therefore, that 'as much in­formation should be forwarded to Ithe school on these matters before the meeting of next week, so that parents and public will have a more s'atisfactory report to receive.

Finally, the advisory council requests in­formation concerning present progress on t~e education centre proposals. It would like to know when the plans will be released and the public be able to view the pro­posals?

The meeting referred to is the meet­ing to be held on Thursday of this week, and the education centre is the combined high school primary school for the Vere Street Cromwell Street, and Islington Street area of Collingwood.

It is not a joke when children must attend a school which virtually does not exist. Many children of this school have had to be sent home without receiving any education or have received education on a make­shift basis. I will be most grateful to hear the comments on the situation from the Minister in this House. I do acknowledge that, because of the urgency of the matter and because of a request by me to the Minister of Public Works over the week-end, in company with the Minister of Edu­cation and Mr. Serpell of the Public Works Department, the Minister

conducted a detailed examination of the Darling Gardens site this morn­ing.

The Hon. R. J. EDDY (Doutta Galla Province) .-1 strongly protest at Ministers of the Crown completely ignoring correspondence from mem­bers on the Opposition side of the House, who are the only members for whom I can speak. I have before me a letter dated 6th July, 1971, which I sent to the Honorable J. P. Rossiter, Minister of Health. The letter states-

I write regarding the situation that exists in connection with pre-school education.

At a general meeting held in the Assembly Hall on 6th April -at which more than 1,000 people were in attendance including yourself as Minister of Health, the follow­ing resolution was passed unanimously:-

l. That consultations be held with the Minister of Health, Minister of Education, Minister for Social Welfare and represen­tatives of the Australian Pre-School Asso­ciation, Victorian Branch.

2. That a committee of inquiry should be set up by the Government to:

(a) 'Make a detailed examination of the advantages and disadvantages of the present method of organiza­tion;

(b) ascertain the amount of financial assistance which the Treasury should provide each year to enable adequate pre-school services to be provided;

(c) enunciate a definite policy with regard to the future development of pre­school education and suggest the steps necessary to implement such a policy.

I believe, Sir, that you made promises to those in attendance at the above meeting:

(a) That you would ask Cabinet to see that the Government appointed a committee of inquiry; and,

(b) you would arrange joint consulta­tions between yourself, the Min­ister of Education, Minister for Social Welfare and representatives of the Australian Pre-School Asso­ciation.

I ask you, Sir, if you could please furnish me with all relevant information concern­ing the above, as to what action has been taken to the present and what future action you anticipate may take place in the inte­rests of those concerned.

378~ , Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment ..

I have had no reply from the Min­ister and those concerned about this matter do not know what the Gov­ernment intends to do. It is com­pletely wrong that a Minister of the Crown should take so long to reply to this correspondence which was sent to him about eight months ago by a member of this House.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Was a reminder sent?

The Hon. R. J. EDDY.-Does there have to be a reminder?

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I was wondering whether the letter had gone astray.

The Hon. R. J. EDDY.-I do not accept that suggestion; I believe that the Minister received the letter. This is not the first occasion on which this has happened.

In relation to another matter of urgency, on 7th January of this year, I wrote to the Honorable Ian Smith, Minister for Social Welfare. My letter stated-

I write seeking information with refer­ence to a Kelvin Pitt who is an inmate 'Of :Ohurringile Prison Farm, Tatura.

I have been informed that Kelvin Pitt complained of being ill and it was thought at the time that he was pretending. It was not until he started to bleed from the mouth that notice was taken and he was then transferred to the Tatura Hospital.

I am led to believe that Pitt's conditiDn is serious and I would appreciate all rele­vant information in cDnnection with his condition, the delay in treatment after complaining 'Of being ill and the reaSDns as to why this delay occurred.

Again, I have not received a reply from the Minister. The person could be dead and apparently the Minister has no interest in his condition.

The Ministers are insulting to members of this House who seek information on behalf of their con­stituents. If a Minister is not pre­pared to provide a reply within a reasonable time, the honorable gentleman should resign from the Cabinet.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY (North-Eastern Province) .-1 desire to raise two rna tters concerning staffing at schools. On 16th Febru­ary, I received the following tele­gram:-

Critical shortage of accDmmodatiDn and staff Wodonga High -SchoDI forcing deci­siDns detrimental to children's education stop unanimous decisiDn 'Of staff that you be requested to use your influence to provide five teachers and fDur class-rooms immediately.

The telegram has been followed up by many' letters from parents of pupils at the school. The school has an enrolment of 963 students and last year, with the assistance of a Government subsidy, a new assembly hall was erected. The school autho­rities have now been forced to use the assembly hall as a multiple 'Class­room because 200 stUdents regularly occupy the assembly hall which has not yet been officially opened as such.

The parents are gravely concerned and I have received seventeen letters plus a petition signed by 22 persons indicating that from Monday of this week forms I., II. and III. will be attending the school only four days a week. The school is short of five or six teachers and at least four class-rooms. I took the matter up with the Minister of Education who at least showed me the courtesy of responding quickly to my representa­tions. On 23rd February, the Minister stated that the school was entitled to 48·2 teachers whereas only 45· 1 had been appointed. The letter also stated-

The staffing officer is aware of the vacancies for teachers of commerce, mathematics, boys' practical work land girls' physical education and appointments will be made as soon as suitable teachers are located.

It is important that the students in these subjects should receive proper tuition. Much has been said about the Albury-Wodonga complex and its development. It will be impossible to encourage industry to set up in the area or to induce people to move there whe'n it 'is known publicly that

Adjournment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3787

inadequate accommodation and in­sufficient teachers are available to provide a proper education at the W odonga High School. An industrial concern would shirk setting up a decentralized industry in the area because people will not move into the district if adequate education cannot be provided.

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE.-The popu­lation of Wodonga went up by 23·1 per cent in five years.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.­That may be true because it is a popular area, but the shortage of accommodation and teachers at the local high school will discourage a further increase in population and industries moving into the area.

Although the Minister said that appointments would be made as soon as suitable teachers were located, in discussions yesterday, Mr. Russell, of the department, admitted that there was no possible hope of being able to find the necessary teachers for this school in the foreseeable future.

I have also received the following telegram from the advisory council of the Yea High School:-

Yea High School staff allotment short 1 maths science teacher for 28 periods throughout school stop Urgently requires your help remedy situation.

I have also received fifteen letters from parents of children at the school urging that a maths-science teacher be appointed. To obtain education in this subject it is necessary for pupils to be transported 15 or 20 miles to the Alexandra High School. Al­though I do not close my eyes to the needs of the metropolitan area, it is necessary that children in country areas should be provided with a proper education. The lack of facil­ities and teachers does not encourage people to remain in the country and in fact is forcing many to leave so that their children can receive a proper education.

I ask the Minister of Education to ascertain whether something can be done immediately to provide the necessary teacher at the Yea High

School and to supply the needed class-rooms and teachers for the Wodonga High School so that the assembly hall at that school may be used for the purpose for which it was erected.

The Hon. D. E. KENT (Gippsland Province).-I direct the attention of the Government to a matter which has been raised with my colleague in another place, the honorable mem­ber for Midlands, coneerning the operations of the Victorian Inland Meat Authority. A telegram received by the honorable member indicates that the authority at Bendigo has informed country butchers that it will discontinue delivery of meat from 14th April. The country butchers fear that this will adversely affect the operations of the authority, which has been functioning in a satisfactory manner to the ad­vantage of the butchers and the producers. I ask the Minister repre­senting the Minister of Agriculture to take steps to ensure that the authority does not take the action proposed.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Mel­bourne West Province) .-1 wish to raise a matter concerning the in­activity of the Department of Health regarding obnoxious odours emanat­ing from meat works in the western suburbs. Whatever the prevailing wind, the residents of the area have to put up with the obnoxious odours and they are utterly sick of them. The Department of. Health has done nothing to alleviate the position. Contrary to the plati­tudinous expressions of the Mini­ster of Health to the effect that something has been done, nothing has been accomplished. The Minister of Health asserted that it was the re­sponsibility of local government. 'I remind the Ministers in charge of both departments of their responsibilities under their oaths of office. Nothing has been done in the western suburbs to stop the obnoxious odours. Unless action is taken the residents will take matters into their own hands.

3788 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

Promises have been made but the necessary corrective works have not been carried out. The apathetic attitudes and laziness of certain people have been apparent and promises have not been fulfilled. The two departments stand condemned. I ask the Ministers concerned to get these people off their backsides and ensure that these obnoxious odours are eliminated.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! That was hardly a Parliamentary expression.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-I with­draw it, Mr. President. These smells emanate at night. I suggest that the public servants whose duties are to stop these nuisances should go out and have a smell around the area tonight. My colleague, Mr. Thomas, knows something about the matter. It is the opinion of the councils con­cerned that the Department of Health should do something about these obnoxious odours.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-1 raise a matter of great concern regarding Government administration which is worrying the people in Princes Hill and North Carlton. In December last a map was circulated which caused the calling of a public meet­ing showing a freeway as a continua­tion of Freeway F 19 through Princes Hill, North Carlton, and joining up with Freeway F12. As a result of a public meeting held on 23rd Decem­ber, 1971, hundreds of letters were written to the Minister and many letters were sent to me.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I received many of them.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-I raise this matter on behalf of the people in this area, and in particular on behalf of Mr. Robert G. Treseder, of 77 Wilson Street, North Carlton. In a letter to the Minister for Loca] Government, Mr. Treseder said-

This new proposal causes the route of the connecting freeway to pass precisely through our home in Princes Hill. You will understand, I hope. our alarm at such

a proposal and the apparent lack of co­ordination between .. planning" authorities who instigate these alternatives~

Mr. Treseder expressed his concern and asked a series of questions, which I passed on to the Minister for Local Government. Briefly, it could be stated that Freeway F19 would finish at a "T" junction at Hoddle Street. Any person would know that no free­way could adequately finish at a " T " junction and logically at some time a continuation must be provided. These people are concerned at that aspect.

Approximately 800 people attended a public meeting to discuss this matter. The Chief Planning Engineer of the Country Roads Board, Mr. N. S. Guerin, said that, at that juncture he knew of no such proposal. The Minister for Local Government has not had time to resolve the proposal I put to him. Is it possible that the honorable gentleman could make some statement which would help to dampen the real concern of the people in Princes Hill? No better housing exists in East Melbourne than exists in Princes Hill and I am just as concerned about anything which may happen to this beautiful suburb on the fringes of Melbourne as the Minister for Local Government is concerned about East Melbourne.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Ministe'r for Local Government) .-1 propose to deal with the matter raised by Mr. Tripovich because of the large number of people who could be affected by the project which he mentioned. I believe that unneces­sary fears ought to' be allayed as promptly as pOSSible, if this can be done. Freeway numbers are confus­ing to the public and honorable members so I shall explain precisely what the terms used involve and envisage.

On the metropolitan transportation plan a freeway known as F19 is shown. I t was proposed to run east and west roughly along the route of Queensberry Street, West Mel­bourne. After running easterly

Adjournment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3789

along Queensberry Street, it diverges northerly to meet the Eastern Freeway. It continues nor­therly in a diagonal direction and meets the Eastern Freeway in the Clifton Hill area. A freeway known as F12 was also shown on the metropolitan transportation plan, again running east and west roughly along the line of Brunswick Road, Brunswick, later diverging slightly south to meet the Eastern Freeway.

All freeways in those inner suburbs would clearly create inter­ference with the social fabric of the entire area, and I issued instructions for a further examination with a view to mInImIzmg the sociological implications of the effects upon the people. The matter was dealt with briefly in a report from the Country Roads Board which I received late in September, 1971, and which related primarily to what was then known as the eastern leg of the inner ring road. In that report, however, the Country Roads Board indicated that it felt that these two freeways could be combined into one with a vastly reduced impact upon and damage to the suburbs in this area.

Following that report, Cabinet discussed the matter and, on 4th October, 1971, directions were given for substantial modifications of the inner-suburban freeway programme with a view to further reductions of its social and aesthetic impact ·on the people. On the following day the document received wide publicity, and details of this proposal were published in the press. On 6th October, 1971, I arranged for the report to be laid upon the table of the Library. Subsequently, I arranged for the Country Roads Board to supply a copy of the same report to the Committee for Urban Action, a co-ordinating body of a number of the inner-suburban groups such as the Carlton Association.

A sketch was developed by the Country Roads Board with a view to minimizing the freeway impact. It is wha t is known as a concept sketch only, and it is not a firm plan. It

Session 1972.-133

does not purport to show precisely where the route will go-if this free­way is in fact adopted. It intends to do no more than to show the general nature of the concept and the broad general area in which such a route would need to be planned. If the freeway scheme is adopted-no decision has been made upon tha t­the precise route, which cannot be predicated from this mere concept sketch, will need to be determined by actual survey, and in determining that route all possible consideration will be given to the effect upon homes and upon parklands. The objective will be to ensure that the minimum adverse social effect accrues. An effort will be made to plan the freeway with the best long­term public advantage.

I might add that the Carlton Asso­ciation which, of course, is vitally concerned with the future of this area, has prepared an al terna tive sketch which aga'in does not help to show the precise homes affected. Like the Country Roads Board's sketch it is a concept sketch only, and although it is valuable for comparison purposes the end proposal would merely trans­fer the problem to another area, namely, North Fitzroy, and would in­volve a greater length of freeway with the subsequent lacquisition of more homes and more parkland. For those reasons alone ilt would be un­acceptable.

I want to emphasize for the benefit of Mr. Tripovich and his constituents that no firm determinations have been made; that there is no reason for any­one to believe that his home is affec­ted at this stage; and that all the rep­resentations received will be given the fullest possible consideration before any final determination is made.

This is a case where a concept sketch has been made available at the earliest possible time. Never be­fore has the public in an area known earlier of the general nature of a pro­posal which could affect it. Normally the public knows only when a firm plan is produced, at which stage it becomes pointless to object to

3790 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

it because the matter has received every consideration and a final con­clusion has been adopted. The oppo­site has been done 'in this case. The public has been given the earliest possible warning of the general nature of a proposal which is merely under consideration for the area concerned.

I tum to the issue raised by Mr. Ward and I decline to comment upon the facts of the specific case in the belief that it would be quite improper for me to do so for two most serious reasons. Firstly, the matter which he raised is, I understand, the subject of an appeal to the independent Town Planning Appeals Tribunal. That tribunal is, and is intended to be, in­dependent and free from any Minis­terial intervention or influence. I do not propose Ito influence the determi­nation of the tribunal in any way by commenting on the case.

Secondly, in the House of Commons it is a long-es'tablished principle, dat­ing back for many centuries, that a lawyer who has appeared or acted at any time 'in the past in a specific mat­ter may not even mention it in Parlia­ment. Before my appointment as a Minister I acted for the family named by Mr. Ward in the particular applica­tion which he now raises. For that reason it would be quite improper for me to deal with the facts of the case in this House. If at any time a question involving a Ministerial deci­sion arises on this matter, that deci­sion will not be made by me. I will arrange to have it dealt with by a substitute Minister during my absence in the country or interstate.

However, I believe I can, without trespassing on either of those rules, deal with the principle raised by Mr. Ward. The principle involved was simply that he wanted to know whether it was proper for a second planning authority to interfere with the determinations made by another planning authority before the second authority obtained its powers. This is the principle that applies equally, of course, to interim development orders of the Melbourne and Metro­politan Board of Works. I have

The Ron. A. J. Runt.

informed the Board of Works that in my view it would be quite intolerable for it, under the guise of the powers contained in those new interim deve­lopment orders, to set aside, to seek to set aside or indirectly to set aside a determination validly made by a local authority under its planning powers before a current interim deve­lopment order of the Board of Works was in existence, particularly where that prior permit had been acted upon by the person who had received it. I have also instructed the Board of Works that where a permit has been relied upon to the prejudice of an individual pursuant to previous plan­ning powers, the Board of Works must in all circumstances honour the permit. To do otherwise would, I believe, as Mr. Ward has indicated, Virtually give retrospective operation to an interim development order sub­sequently granted. That would result in a permit granted before the exist­ence of those powers being set aside or varied under the new interim dev'elopment order.

I have also instructed the board that even where a permit granted under earlier planning powers has not been acted upon, that permit, too, should be honoured unless there are the gravest reasons to the contrary. I have made those remarks known to the people of Victoria in a public seminar on the Board of Works plan. All members of this House know how abhorrent the granting of retrospect­ive powers is, by direct or indirect means, and it is never intended that this should be so. The views that I have expressed to the Board of Works apply equally to the Western Port Regional Planning Authority and any municipalities which may have granted permits prior to the date upon which the Western Port Re­gional Planning Authority assumed its powers.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-A number of important matters cover­ing a wide range of subjects such as education, the Victorian Inland Meat Authority and the responsibilities of Ministers of the Crown have been

Adjournment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3791

raised. Mr. Tripovich and Mr. Brad­bury have shown their real concern for education in their provinces and both have referred to the shortage of teachers at particular schools. I know that they would be the first to agree that it is not a simple task for the Education Department to try to provide accommodation. There are some 600,000 students in State schools and the department is res­ponsible for the placing and transfer­ring in excess of 47,000 teachers and trainee teachers, which is a mammoth task. We have had problems and the House has been informed of them. Mr. Tripovich referred to a number of high schools in his large province, and Mr. Bradbury referred to the staffing situation at the Wodonga High School. Mr. Bradbury's problem is, I suppose, multiplied by the fact that the high school is short of a science teacher. As the Minister for State Development pointed out, the population in his area has increased by 23 per cent, and that must aggravate the problem. I assure him that the matter will be brought before the Minister of Education.

I think it is fair to say that the position this year is better than it was last year. Teacher recruitment has been remarkable. There are approximately 15,000 highly-trained young people who wish to be teachers of science and other subjects; in fact, there are more teachers in training than ever before, and the teacher­student ratio is better than ever.

That does not solve Mr. Tripovich's problem; nor does it solve Mr. Brad­bury's problem. I have experienced similar problems in my own province, but I have been fortunate enough to have them resolved. In the week during which school was to open two teachers left a high school in my province, one to attend a teachers' training college, and one -to a tech­nical college. A new head master took over the school and immediately had a teacher problem. Following co-operation between all concerned, I have been informed tonight that

the problem has been overcome, and I trust that the problems which confront Mr. Tripovich and Mr. Brad­bury will be overcome in a similar manner. As I have said, the matter will be brought before the Minister of Education in a forceful way.

Mr. Elliot referred to Collingwood High School. Everyone must feel sympathy for the teachers, parents, stUdents and all other people who are associated with that school. I have been associated with the school for only one year, but I know that it is one of the oldest schools in the inner areas of Melbourne. It should have been demolished many years ago and, upon a reading of the files, it is obvious that the Education Depart­ment was concerned whether it should spend money on the school or demolish it. The fire at the school raised further problems.

There has been remarkable co­operation between members of Parliament, who have not played party politics concerning this school, and the Education Department and the Public Works Department. In time, the joint committee of architects will introduce a new approach to this problem of education in inner in­dustrial areas. Planning has pro­ceeded for some time, and prior to Christmas-with the help of local members of the community-a pro­ject was agreed to by all parties.

I intended that every possible con­sideration would be given to the people associated with this school, and during the Christmas period I instructed my department to do everything possible for them. The Minister of Education was equally concerned. The school is anxious that the transfer of its students should take place immediately to avoid disruption this year, and every­body has bent over backwards to accommodate them on a new site. It must be remembered that Mel­bourne has experienced the highest rainfall ever recorded and that there are problems of sewerage. In addi­tion, there has been a strike.

3792 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

I repeat that the matters raised by Mr. Bradbury and Mr. Elliot will be brought to the attention of the Min­ister, as will matters which have been raised in discussions with a number of people when I have visited the school. Some were raised by Miss Watson, a most remarkable person. At times I have wondered whether some teachers placed their own interests before those of their children, but it is certain that Miss Watson does not do so. She is a wonderful person, and I was inspired by what she has done for the Col­lingwood Education Centre.

I instructed my department to furnish a detailed report of the situation on what was to happen in the future. To the best of my know­ledge, every matter raised by Miss Watson was immediately agreed to by the Minister of Education and myself; and I can assure the honor­able members concerned that this school will immediately receive portable class-rooms. Even on this temporary site in the Darling Gar­dens the children and teachers will enjoy better surroundings than they have ever enjoyed at the Collingwood High School. From all of this, plans will emerge, and I hope members of the community will be involved in their implementation. I intend to discuss these matters with Mr. Elliot, Mr. Eddy and Mr. O'Connell and all of the people concerned before any­thing is finalized. We have em­ployed draftsmen from outside the department to prepare a crash pro­gramme in this matter. It would have been easier to provide a stand­ard school, but I think the people concerned are entitled to something better. On figures which have been supplied to me, it appears that young people at the Collingwood High School will receive a better educa­tion than students in any part of Victoria.

If Mr. Elliott, Mr. Eddy or Mr. O'Connell have any further prob­lems, they should not hesitate to see me.

The Ron. Murray Byrne.

The. Hon. D. G. ELLIoT.-What does the Minister propose concern­ing a model presentation at the Col­lingwood Town Hall?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.­After I have discussed this matter with the honorable members con­cerned, there will be a showing, and we shall tell the people what is to happen and receive any advice they may wish to offer. Mr. Kent proved conclusively that we have remark­able rights in this House in that he was able to raise a matter concerning a telegram that was sent to his colleague in another place, and very properly so, concerning the Victorian Inland Meat Authority. As the matter has been raised, I can advise him that representations have been made to Mr. Granter and Mr. McDonald. I understand from both honorable members that they have arranged a conference with the authority, but I assure Mr. Kent that the subject-matter of the telegram to his colleague in another place will be conveyed to the Minister of Agriculture.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-If the Minister does not take action, the Victorian Inland Meat Authority will be killed.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-I hope that will not happen, because the Government has fallen over backwards to support the authority. It has certainly done so in Ballarat.

Mr. Eddy referred to two letters that have not been replied to by two Ministers, and he read them at length. I was not sure whether he wanted the letters to be the subject-matter of his complaint in speaking to the adjournment motion. There is a real obligation on all Ministers and alJ Government departments to give prompt replies to members of Parlia­ment. I have said before---and I have said it to my own department because I have strong views on the matter-that members of Parliament are like directors of a company. Mem­bers of Parliament are directors of the company of Victoria, and they

Questions [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] on Notice. 3793

are entitled to the same information and the same treatment that directors of companies receive. I instructed my department to give a reply to members within ten days. Having been a Minister for some time, I wish that all members of the Opposi­tion could be Ministers for a short time; then they would realize the problems that arise. I assure Mr. Eddy that the two Ministers com­plained of would not have refrained deliberately from replying to letters. I could give a million reasons why it is possible that a reply is not given in a short time. I assure the House that I will raise the matter in Cabinet. If members do not get a reply in a reasonable time I advise them to contact the Minister concerned.

The motion was agreed to. The House adjourned at 9.43 p.m.,

until Tuesday, March 7.

J1jtgislutiut Asstmbly. Tuesday, February 29, 1972.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie) took the chair at 2.36 p.m., and read the prayer.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE.

The following answers to questions on notice were circulated:-

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

PIPELINE CORRIDOR AROUND MELBOURNE.

(Question No. 666)

Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. What progress has been made by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works in its investigation of the proposal for the construction of a pipeline "corridor" around Melbourne?

2. Wh:at were (he terms of the direction to the board to investigate this proposal?

3. When it is expected that the investjga­tion will be completed?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers supplied by the Minister for Local Government are-

1 and 2. The investigation is being under­taken by the Town and Country Planning Board in lieu of the Board of Works 'as part of ·a full investigation into ·the desir­ability, practicability and implications of general service corridors and the provision of services generally throughout the Port Phillip district.

Two interim reports have been prepared and have already been the subject of an inter-departmental conference.

3. Full investigations are unlikely to be completed for some time yet. Upon com­pletion of investigations it is proposed to refer all reports to the State Planning Council with a view to-

(a) ensuring complete co-ordination of any action required by Gov­ernment departments and instru­mentalities generally; and

(b) consideration of the desirability of preparing a formal statement of planning policy on the subject.

FREEWAYS F2 AND F19 (Question No. 732)

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moo nee Ponds) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

Whether, in view of the Government's rejection of the Melbourne 'and Metropolitan Board of Works proposals for the route of Freeway I, being part of the Melbourne ring road system, when information will be made available concerning the proposed route of Freeway F2 and the Carlton section of Freeway F19.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer supplied by the Minister for Local Government is-

The Government has directed that priority be given to further investigation of all implications of Freeway F2 and ,this will be carried out jointly by the Country Roads Board and the Board of Works. An examina­tion is also being made of proposed Freeway FI9 as it ·affects Carlton.

At this stage it is not known when these investigations will be completed.

3794 . Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

MOTOR MECHANICS. CERTIFICATES OF QUALIFICATION AND

PROFICIENCY.

(Question No. 693)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry-

Whether the Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce issues cc qualified motor mechanic" certificates; if 80-( a) to whom they are issued; and (b) whether the certificates conflict with the requirements of the Apprenticeship Commission in respect of the training required for the trade classification of motor mechanic and the certificate of proficiency issued on completion of apprenticeship training?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answer is-

(a) The Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce issues motor mechanic certificates to persons who have either received a certificate of proficiency from the Apprenticeship Commission of Victoria as a motor mechanic or have a minimum of seven years' approved trade experience as an 'adult.

(b) The certificates are not in conflict with any provision of the Apprenticeship Act 1958 or regulations made under the Act.

ROAD TRAFFIC. CONGESTION IN NORTH GEELONG.

(Question No. 706)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

What are the short-term and long-term plans, respectively, to overcome traffic delay and confusion during peak periods at the intersection of Melbourne Road and Victoria Street, North Geelong?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The Minister for Local Government has supplied the follow­ing answer:-

Some relief is being afforded at this inter­section since traffic has been able to use the new Telegraph Bridge nearby which con­nects Church Street and Glenleith Avenue. The Country Roads Board opened this bridge to traffic on 15th December, 1971.

The board expects to complete the recon­struction of the Princes Highway to provide a six-lane divided carriageway between Separation Street and Bell Parade by June, 1973. The board has also commenced the earthworks for the western approaches to the proposed Margaret Street over-pass

which will take traffic over both the railway and the Princes Hig~h.way. Construction of the over-pass structure has commenced and is expected to be completed prior to April, 1973.

A footway will be provided for pedes­trians on the Margaret Street over-pass and a separate pedestrian crossin~ will be pro­vided across the railway crossing at Victoria Street.

The intersection of the Princes Highway and Victoria Street will be controlled by traffic signals.

OVER-PASS AT GEELONG WEST.

(Question No. 709)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

What is the expected commencing date for traffic to use the over-pass at the inter­section of Church Street and Glenleith Avenue, Geelong West?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer supplied by the Minister for Local Government is­

The Country Roads Board opened this over-pass to traffic on 15th December, 1971.

GAS AND FUEL CORPORATION. GEELONG GAS SUPPLIES: REBATED

CHARGES.

(Question No. 714)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power-

1. What are the entitlement qualifications for householders and industry, respectively, in the Geelong area to obtain rebated charges for gas supplies?

2. How many industries and house­holders, respectively, in the Geelong area are receiving rebated charges?

For Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power), Mr. Reid (Attorney­General) .-The answers are-

1. Tariffs of the Geelong Gas Company are published and are available at any time at the company's offices in Geelong. Broadly speaking, varying tariffs are avail­able and in the domestic sphere special tariffs are available for-

(a) consumers who install approved appliances for domestic water heating, refrigeration and other uses;

(b) consumers who install approv,ed appliances for domestic space heating and other uses; and

Questions [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] on Notice. 3795

(c) pensioners whose consumption does not exceed 10 therms per month.

In the commercial-industrial sphere there are also a number of special tariffs available for such uses as aIr-conditioning, space heating, commercial cooking, bread baking and other industrial uses. These tariffs are related to usage, load factor, cost of service, size of meter, &c.

2. (a) There are 7,128 consumers in Geelong on the tariff for domestic, water heating, refrigerators and other uses.

(b) There are 3,496 consumers in Geelong on the tariff for domestic space heating and other uses.

(c) There are 192 pensioners on the pensioners' tariff.

(d) There are no industries receiving rebated charges.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. ADULT EDUCATION: TEACHERS.

(Question No. 716)

Mr. AMOS (Morwell) asked the Minister of Education-

1. What degree of responsibility the Education Department accepts for adult education?

2. What areas of the State have the services of a departmental teacher for the purposes of adult education?

3. Whether there have been requests from the Yallourn area for such an appointment· if so-(a) why no appointment has beeri made; and (b) whether such appointment will be made in the near future?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. The Education Department has no formal.obligation or responsibility under the Education Act for adult education. It is part of the responsibility of the Council of Adult Education to plan and develop adult education in Victoria.

2. The Education Department has pro­vid~d the ,services of a teacher to co­ordmate classes in Wangaratta, Warragul, Benalla and Shepparton ~n the past, but has not renewed thIS servIce in Shepparton when the position became vacant.

3. There have been requests from the Yallourn area for such an appointment.

(a) No appointment has been made because demands for staff for this purpose have been growing and a similar request from IYIildura has also been refused. The EducatIon Department has large numbers of teacher~ on various types of secondment and at thIS stage cannot commit itself to such a programme.

(b) It is. not proposed to make an apPoIntment In the near future.

N.B. The foregoing answer, which differs from that given by me in a letter I sent· to the honorable member on 17th December, 1971, has been prepared following receipt of further information from the Director of Adult Education.

STAFFING OF SECONDARY SCHOOLS: FORMULA.

(Question No. 719)

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Minister of Education-

1. What is the formula used for the staffing of secondary schools?

2. Whether under this formula, the larger secondary schools receive greater benefits in the provision of staff in comparison with other schools; if so, why?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. A new formula is being implemented for staffing of secondary schools in 1972. The formula is based on the number of groups in each form to be taught. This number is calculated on the basis of:-

Forms I., II., III. and IV. not to exceed 40 pupils in any group; form V. not to exceed 35 pupils in any group; form VI. not to exceed 30 pupils in any group.

For each group, 1 i teachers will be allowed with some additional staff in schools at which the total numbers in the higher forms are low.

2. No, the larger schools will not receive greater benefits in comparison with others under this new system; in fact, the new formula tends to be more generous towards the smaller country secondary schools than the old staffing schedules did.

TEACHERS GRANTED PART-TIME STUDY LEAVE.

(Question No. 735)

Mr. SHILTON (Midlands) asked the Minister of Education-

1. How many teachers have been granted part-time study leave for 1972 and how many of those are within the Bendigo inspectorate?

2. What criteria was used in selecting successful applicants?

3. How many teachers were national servicemen?

4. Whether any successful applicants have only completed one year of study?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. 1,265 teachers have been granted part-time study leave for 1972, of which 775. are continuing from 1971 and 490 is

3796 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

the number of new awards for 1972. Twenty-seven of those are within the Ben­digo inspectorate, 20 continuing from 1971, and 7 have the new awards for 1972.

2. Selection for study leave awards, in general, takes account of the following:-

(a) Progress made towards completion of course.

(b) Years of service.

(c) Teaching record. (d) Other things being equal, preference

is given to ex-servicemen.

3. Thirty-seven teachers were national servicemen, 14 of those continuing from 1971, and 23 have new awards for 1972.

4. There are some successful applicants who have completed only one year of study.

RURAL FIRE BRIGADES ASSOCIATION. LOG OF CLAIMS.

(Question No. 717)

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether a dedsion has been made on the log of claims submitted by the Rural Fire Brigades Association to the Chief Secretary in October, 1969; if so, what was the decision and if the claims were rejected outright, why?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The answer is-

There is no record in the files of the Chief Secretary's Office nor is any refer­ence made in the annual report of the Victorian Rural Fire Brigades Association for the year ended 30th June, 1970, to a log of claims being submitted by the asso­ciation to the Chief Secretary in October, 1969.

POLICE DEPARTMENT. COLLECTION OF ROAD TAXES.

(Question No. 725)

Mr. WHITING (Mil dura) asked the Chief Secretary-

How many pollce officers were involved in the collection of road taxes in each of the past five years and what cost was in­volved in respect of manpower and vehicles?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The answer is-

One member of the force is atta·ched to the Transport Regulation Board for the pur­pose of executing warrants in respect of unpaid road taxes. Details of the costs involved are as follows:-

Financial year Salary ·Overtime ·Travelling ·Vehicle Totals expenses costs

$ $ $ $ $

1966-67 .. .. .. 3,841 721 889 730 6,181 1967-68 .. .. .. 4,030 920 502 777 6,229 1968-69 .. .. .. 4,126 1,277 297 743 6,443 1969-70 .. .. .. 4,545 1,206 394 677 6,822 1970-71 .. .. .. 4,848 1,352 297 605 7,102

Totals .. .. 21,390 5,476 2,379 3,532 32,777

• Paid by Transport Regulation Board. The board provides a vehicle for the member.

SOCIAL WELFARE DEPARTMENT. STATISTICAL STUDIES.

(Question No. 726)

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Minister for Social Welfare-

Whether statistical studies undertaken during the past two years will be repeated for comparative purposes in 1972; if not, why?

Mr. I. for Social is-

W. SMITH (Minister Welfare).-The answer

Yes, as far as is practicable in the light of other commitments.

I would also remind the honorable member of the availability for com­par>ative purposes of the extensive statistical tables published in the de­partmental annual reports.

Questions [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] on Notice. 3797

RESEARCH FACILITIES.

(Question No. 727) Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East)

asked the Minister for Social Welfare-

Whether any research facilities have been or will be offered by the Social Welfare Department to municipalities or voluntary bodies to assist them in conducting social welfare research?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare).-The answer is-

Yes. Advisory and practical services have already been given in a number of these areas, and will continue to be provided as far as our available resources and com­mitments allow.

GR'EEN HILL LAKE RESERVE. REDEVELOPMENT: SPILLWAY.

(Question No. 729) Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of

the Country Party) asked the Minister of Lands-

1. Whether he has received representa­tions from either individuals or organiza­tions in the City of Ararat in respect of the redevelopment of Green Hill Lake Reserve, including provision for motor boating?

2. Whether the Department of Crown Lands and Surveyor any other authority has imposed any restriction on raising the level of the lake to 960 feet by the re­building of the spillway, which was breached approximately ten years ago?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answers are-

1. Yes, from Ararat City Council. 2. The council's proposal involved the

grant of a lease by the Crown to enable the council to develop about 250 acres as a recreational area including conversion of the existing swamp into a lake to the 960-ft. level. This work cannot proceed until the lease is granted but although the council was offered a lease in March, 1971, it has not proceeded with the matter.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. SUBMISSION BY PRODUCERS ONE PRICE

COMMITTEE.

(Question No. 731) Mr. W. J. Lewis (portland) asked

the Minister of Lands, for the Mini­ster of Agriculture-

Whether Mr. O. R. Browne, Chairman of the Milk Board, was in attendance and acted as advisor Ito the Minister when receiving the submission made by the Pro­ducers One Price Committee; if so, why the Minister did not ·avail himself of advisors from the Department .of Agriculture?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answer supplied by the Minister of Agriculture is-

When I received Ithe deputati.on from the Producers One Price Committee on the 7th October, 1971, Messrs. O. R. Browne, chair­man, and C. J. McPherson, member of the Milk B.oard, and Messrs R. I. Howey, Chief .of the Division of Dairying and W. D. Young, secretary .of the Department .of Agncul ture, were in attendance.

All of the persons mentioned participated in the discussions .on that .occasion and ad­vised me on matters arising from the com­mi1ltee's submission.

COUNTRY ROADS BOARJ). OVER-PASS AT BLACKSHAW'S ROAD, NEWPORT: PROPERTY ACQUISITIONS.

(Question No. 733)

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. Whether the Country Roads Board has finalized the purchase or acquisiti.on of properties needed to c.onstruct the over-pass at Blackshaw's Road, NewpoI'lt; if not-( a) what are the reasons for delay; (b) Which properties are concerned; 'and (c) what amounts are still outstanding?

2. Whether it is proposed to immediately demolish ·the h.ouses acquired; if not, what are the plans for lIenting or leasing such houses?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port).-The Minister for Local Gov­ernment has supplied the following answers:-

1. (a) The board is actively negotiating the acquisition of the properties required for the over-pass, the construction of which the board propos1es to commence in mid-1973.

(b) The properties concerned are: Whole of properties Melbourne Road, Newport, Nos. 497, 512,

514, 516, 518, 520, 522, 524, 526, 528, 530, 532, 534, 536, 544, 548, 550, 552.

2A Junction Street, Newport. 3 Ross Street, Newport. 1 Blackshaw's Road, Newport. 56 Schutt Street, Newport.

Part properties-

Melbourne Road, Newport, Nos. 508, 510 and 535.

Victorian R1ailways stores branch an4 workshops.

( c) The value of the properties still tQ be acquired is estimated at $153,000.

3798 Questions' on Notice. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions without Notice.

2. The houses are being retained until the land is required for road construotion pur­poses. As the purchase of privately-owned houses is completed, the vendors, if they so desire, are allowed to remain in occupation by the board to enable them to arrange a.lJtemative accommodation. The vendors are not charged any rental for the first thirteen weeks and only half the economic rent for the next thirteen weeks. Thereafter the full economic rent is charged. When the vendors vacate the properties they ·are rented at current market rates until they are required for demolition.

MUNICIPALITIES. LAND FOR PUBLIC OPEN SPACE.

(Question No. 734)

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister f.or Local Government-Further to the answer to question No. 705 asked on 1st December, 1971-

1. Whether, for the purposes of deter­mining the required contribution for pub­lic open space in approving a plan of subdivision, the proposed future use of the land and th'e services available are taken into account when making Ithe required valuation; if so-(a) under what powers these considerations are included; and (b) how cash contributions are determined where required as an altem'ative to provid­ing land?

2. What controls councils haV'e to pre­vent a repetition of two-lot sU'bdivisions in respect of the same land being made to escape the public open space requirement?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port).-The answers supplied by the Minister for Local Government are-

1. When a council resolves to require a subdivider to make a cash contribution, pursuant to section 569B (SA), Local Gov­ernment Act 1958, in respect of a proposed subdivision of l'and ·the council can demand an amount not greater than one-twentieth part of the site value, as defined in section 315A. The council must cause a valuation to be made as at Ithe date on which the plan of subdivision was submitted. Accord­ingly, the valuer will value the land not 'as subdivided land but as land ripe for sub­division.

2. Two-lot subdivisions are currently not subject Ito this legislation. However, a Bill at present before Parliament provides for councils to demand a contribution in respect .of two-lot subdivisions if either or both of the lots may be further ·subdivided.

NEW MEMBER. The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon

Christie) announced that he had received a return to the writ he had issued on 3rd November last for the election of a member to serve for the electoral district of Gisborne in the place of Julian John Doyle, Esq., resigned, by which it appeared that Athol George Guy, Esq., had been duly elected for that electoral district.

Mr. Guy was introduced and sworn.

ABSENCE OF MINISTERS. The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon

Christie).-The Minister of Health has been good enough to write a letter to tell me that he regrets that he must be at an Australian Health Ministers' conference to be held in Queensland on 1 st and 3rd March.

I understand that the Minister for Fuel and Power is away and that the Attorney-General is acting in his place.

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE.

COMPENSATION FOR MURDER ATTEMPT VICTIMS.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Can the Chief Secretary inform the House whether one of the persons charged with the attempted murder of two people in Northcote last Friday after­noon is a member of the Police Force, and if so will the victims be entitled to compensation?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­One of the persons charged with the offence is a member of the Police Force. Without presuming on the decision of the court, and assuming that the case were proved-as I think the honorable member has for the purpose of his question assumed it would be-the matter of compen­sation would be dealt with by an application for an ex gratia payment. Such payments are made by the Treasurer, and applications are con­sidered in the light of the circum­stances of each case. Ex gratia payments have been made in cases of

Questions - [29 FEBRUARY,-1972.] without Notice.

assault, but I am unable to say at this stage whether any payment will be made in this case. I should think that, in the circumstances outlined by the honorable member, sympathetic consideration would be given to an a pplica tion.

PENTRIDGE GAOL. Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of

the Country Party) .-1 direct a ques­tion to the Minister for Social Wel­fare: Is it the Government's intention to carry out structural alterations to that part of Pentridge Gaol known as H division and, if so, when is it expec­ted that these alterations will take place?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-At present the Government has no plans for struc­tural alterations to Pentridge Gaol.

LIBEL ACTION AGAINST PREMIER. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Is it a fact that the Crown Solicitor's office has entered an a ppearance on behalf of the Premier of Victoria in a libel suit which has been instituted against the Premier by another prominent Vic­torian citizen? If so, does the Attor­ney-General regard it as proper that-

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie}.-The honorable member is asking for an opinion.

Mr. HOLDING.-I will put it this way, Mr. Speaker: Would the Attor­ney-General regard it as n~rmal ad­ministrative procedure for hIS depart­ment to be used at the behest of the Premier in libel proceedings rather than having these proceedings dealt with in the normal way as between two citizens?

The SPEAKER.-The second part seems to be a matter of opinion.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).-It is a fact that an appearance has been entered by the Crown Solicitor on behalf of the Premier in this action in which the plaintiff is stated to be, correctly or not, a prominent citizen. Whether he is or' not is- a 'matter of

opinion. I do not regard this pra'ctice as abnormal and I take responsibility for any matter undertaken by the Crown Solicitor in this regard. The question of sorting out this matter is one for the Supreme Court and not for this House.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-From the answer just given by the Attorney-General, does it follow, firstly, that the costs of this litigation will be borne by the State should the plaintiff succeed in his action for libel and, secondly, should the plaintiff succeed--

The SPEAKER.-This question is hypothetical.

Mr. HOLDING.-With respect, Mr. Speaker, I assure you that it logically follows from what the Attorney-Gen­eral has said. I am trying to pursue the matter of administration. From the Attorney-General's answer does it follow that, in the event of the plaintiff being successful, the costs of this litigation will be borne by his department?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­I regard this as a speculative quest,ion and there should be no need for me to remind the Leader of the Opposition, who is a practising lawyer, that the question of costs of proceedings in the Supreme Court is in the discretion of the court. It would not be proper for me to speculate about the inci­dence of costs in a matter which is before the court.

FREE EDUCATION. Mr. HAYES (Scoresby).-Will the

Minister of Education make it quite clear that State education is not sup­posed to be free so far as school books, school equipment, sporting equipment, and effects relating to personal hygiene and so on are con~ cerned? Further, will the honorable gentleman make it clear that State education has never been free in that sense, that it is not totally free, nor is it likely to be in the near future?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The only reference to this matter in legislation is in

3800 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

section 22 of the Education Act which states that instruction in subjects listed in the Second Schedule to the Education Act shall be free. Some fifteen subjects are listed in that schedule. For decades it has been the practice for the basic buildings and for the salaries of teachers to be provided by the State. But it has also been a traditional practice for schools, through fund-raising activi­ties, to provide additional facilities for pupils. This practice has been fol­lowed through the years. In specific answer to the question of the honor­able member for Scoresby, I point out that it is true that education has not been wholly free, but that instruction in certain subjects has been free.

LIBEL ACTION AGAINST PREMIER. Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East).

-Can the Attorney-General explain the fine distinction which leads to the situation in which the Premier is re­presented by the Law Department in a libel suit whereas the honorable raember for Gippsland East did not receive this same facility?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­I ask the honorable member to put the question on the Notice Paper.

PREMIERS CONFERENCE. Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray).-In

view of the significance of the recent Premiers Conference, will the Premier and Treasurer be making a statement to the House on the effects of that conference on Victoria and how the Government will spend the extra finance which has become available so that Parliament will be able to debate this matter?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-Yes. It is my intention to introduce a Supply Bill tomorrow and to make a fairly comprehensive statement on the Premiers Conference and the current financial situation of the State. The purpose is not so much to obtain Supply immediately for the period from July to Septem­ber, as to give honorable members an opportunity of debating this question.

FREE EDUCATION. Mr. FELL (Greensborough).­

Further to the answer given by the Minister of Education relating to so­called free education, will the honor­able gentleman explain how instruc­tion can be 'given in accordance with the requirements of the Act when pupils or their parents cannot afford the cost of the requisites necessary to receive that instruction?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-It is always a debatable point what facilities and requisites are absolutely essential, but the State Government is making a far greater effort in this decade than ever pre­viously in endeavouring to provide a progressively freer education system. This is illustrated by the fact that, in 1940, 17 per cent of current expendi­ture was devoted to education and that this year the percentage is 43.

TEACHING STUDENTSHIPS. Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Can

the Minister of Education in­form the House whether any students in Victoria were advised through the medium of the press that they were recipients of studentships in this State but were afterwards notified by the Education Department that they were not, that the student­ships were withdrawn, and that there had been some mistake? Will the Minister state how many students were involved?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-On at least four different occasions I was telephoned by the press representatives and told that the press had received a state­ment from the honorable member for Albert Park that the Education Department had cancelled 500 studentships which had been awarded and announced to students some three weeks previously. This infor­mation was completely and utterly untrue. I have been informed by the Director of Teacher Education that no student who was awarded a stu­dentship was later informed that that studentship was refused.

. Questions [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] without Notice. 3801

RURAL RECONSTRUCTION SCHEME.

Mr. McCABE (Lowan).-Can the Minister of Lands inform me when the conference requested by the State Ministers of the Federal Government regarding a review of the rural recon­struction plan took place, and can he advise the House how many farmers have received offers of help under the farm build-up and debt reconstruction schemes and how many have accep­ted?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The conference requested by the State Ministers of Lands to­wards the end of November last to take place before 31st December, 1971, will take place in Canberra next Friday. The answer to the second part of the question is as follows:-Offers Made.

Debt reconstruction: 365 cases involving $7,964,050.

Farm build-up: 90 cases involving $2,036,800.

Total: 455 cases involving $10,000,850.

Of these offers, acceptance has been received in 392 cases involving $8,492,850.

PENTRIDGE GAOL ESCAPEE. Mr. MUTTON (Coburg).-Is the

Minister for Social Welfare aware of a statement in the Sun News-Pictorial of 26th February under the heading of "Prisoner disappears in Pen­tridge "; if so, what was the result of his inquiries into this escape?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-Last week a pris­oner serving a sentence of seven days imprisonment disappeared after the fifth day. Such a short sentence is served in D Division. I t is now cer­tain that the prisoner is not within the grounds of Pentridge Gaol. There was some doubt about this for the first 24 hours after the prisoner's disappearance.

At this stage it cannot be confirmed how the prisoner escaped, but it appears that he was in a work gang carrying out renovations to the kit­chen section, and it was in this way that he eluded the officers. Investi­ga tions and a full report are not yet completed, but if any disciplinary action is necessary it will be taken.

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).­

In view of the importance of the sub­ject, does the Attorney-General pro­pose to make a Ministerial statement to the House on the outcome of the meeting of the States Attorneys­General to convene a constitutional convention later this year?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­It is my intention to keep the House fully informed of the developments in this matter and to give the House information regarding the recent meeting of the Attorneys-General acting as a steering committee. I also intend to give to the Leaders of the parties a written report on this matter shortly. I do not propose to state whether the information conveyed will be in a Ministerial statement or in some other form; but the House will be kept fully informed in some way of the developments regarding the holding of this convention.

METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION PLAN

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).­Is the Minister of Transport aware of the criticism by the Town and Country Planning Association of the metropolitan transportation plan for the period to 1985 that too much emphasis has been placed on private transport compared with the public transport system? What reconsidera­tion is he prepared to give to the future role of public transport?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-1 am aware of criticism offered by the Town and Country Planning Association of the metro­politan transportation plan. It is not

3802 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

unusual to receive some criticism of a plan that looks as far ahead as 1985. Indeed, the com­mittee which ·produced the plan was at pains to point out that flexibility was a major ingredient of proper planning.

In September or October last year, when having to take a decision on one of the many freeways in the metropolitan transport plan-the eastern leg of the ring road-the Government decided that the project should not proceed and that public transport should be upgraded. When the Metropolitan Transportation Commi ttee was asked how this up­grading should take place, the 'com­mittee, through me as its chairman, advised the Government that public transport should be upgraded simply by carrying out the plans submitted by the committee concerning public transport.

TEACHING STUDENTSHIPS. Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Can

the Minister of Education inform the House how many teaching student­ships were available at the beginning of this year and how many were awarded?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-In the Primary Divi­sion, which is the subject of discus-sion, approximately 2,900 student­ships were offered and to this stage approximately 2,400 have been taken up. This was the forecast figure. With Commonwealth scholarships and other studentships, additional numbers have been offered in the expectation that a certain percent­age will not be accepted. The actual prediction concerning acceptance or rejection proved to be almost accu­rate, and in any case where a person has been awarded a studentship the Education Department will stand by that award. If the honorable member has a particular case in mind concern­ing which there is th~ slightest doubt, I 'shall be pleased if he will draw it to my attention.

WELFARE AGENCIES. Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-Has

the Minister for Social Welfare made a statement or indicated that approxi­mately $250,000 will be made avail­able to welfare agencies throughout the State? If so, which agencies did the honorable gentleman have in mind and what is the procedure for applying for these funds?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-In the last Budget, $250,000 was allocated for distribu­tion amongst voluntary welfare organizations by the Social Welfare Department. This was brought about by a vast need for certain voluntary welfare organizations operating in the emergency field to receive some assistance so that their work could be improved. Since the introduction of the Budget, in answer to a number of questions asked in the House, I have indicated how application should be made for these funds. Press announcements have also been made.

The department has allowed a per­iod of time to elapse so that voluntary welfare organizations may apply for allocations from these funds, and as yet no cut-off date has been decided upon. If this fund is to continue, it will probably be reason­able to set the end of each calendar year as a cut-off date so that the remaining six months of the financial year can be utilized in processing the applications and distributing the funds. So far, the department has distributed only a small amount of money, mainly to ladies' benevolent societies which have acted in an emergency capacity during the recent stand-down of employees in many industries.

The department has given sympa~ thetic consideration to those organi­zations handling cases where the greatest emphasis is placed on keep­ing the family together. Naturally, the department has a vested interest in keeping families together for their own sake and to av'oid the neces'sity to bring the children under the care

Questions [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] without Notice. 3803

and protection of the department. Accordingly, voluntary organizations which are acting in this emergency capacity have received very sympa­thetic consideration in the past two or three weeks.

If any voluntary welfare organiza­tion in the Mildura electorate wishes to participate in the allocation of the moneys, the honorable member should contact me so that I may provide details of how the organiza­tion may apply.

TEACHING STUDENTSHIPS. Mr. JONA (Hawthorn).-Having

regard to the chaos that occurred and the concern that was expressed as a result of the untrue statements made--

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member should ask his question.

Mr. JONA.-I am just prefacing my question. Can the Minister of Educa­tion inform the House whether the untrue statement made-

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­On a point of order, I take the strong­est objection to the honorable mem­ber for Hawthorn impugning the in­tegrity of another honorable member.

The SPEAKER.-Order! If the question had been allowed to proceed the House would have heard what the honorable member was driving at and there may have been a point of order, but at present there is no point of order. The honorable member should ask his question.

Mr. JONA (Hawthorn).-I am endeavouring to do so. I ask the Minister of Education whether that information relating to the with­drawal of primary studentships which was made public by the honorable m'ember for Albert Park was made available to the honorable member for Albert Park by the Educa­tion Department or whether the statement was a figment of the honor­able member's imagination.

The SPEAKER.-Order! The last part of the question is obviously out of order, but the first part is allow­able.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-Certainly, so far as I know it was the latter, because the information did not come from official sources within the Education Department.

SCHOOL INSURANCE COVERAGE. Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston).-I

direct my question to the Minister of Education. At present teachers and pupils supervising school crossings are covered by a public liability policy. Will the same coverage apply to parents of pupils who supervise crossings with the approval of the head master?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education).-The statement made by the honorable member is correct. I will investigate the suggestion that he makes, but I do not believe parents would be covered under the existing insurance contracts.

LAKE TYERS ABORIGINAL TRUST SHARES.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -I ask the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs whether any members of the Lake Tyers Aboriginal Trust have offered their shares for purchase by the Government and, if not, in the event of any such offers being made will the Governm'ent take up those offers.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister for Aboriginal Affairs).-The answer to the first part of the honorable mem­ber's question is, "No". Concerning the second part, if the offers are made they will be considered.

TEACHING STUDENTSHIPS. Mr. SHILTON (Midlands).-I ask

the Minister of Education: Following his reply or statement a few moments ago that no studentships have been withdrawn after publication in the press, has the Minister's attention

3804 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

been drawn by officers of his depart­ment to the case of Miss Lynette Joy Bacon, of Ironstone Road, Epsom, whose name appeared in the list of studentships published in the press on 28th January and who sub­sequently received a letter from the Education Department advising her that her application was unsuccess­ful?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-If her name was pub­lished the department will stand by it. There was one case of a girl whose name was the same as that of another girl who had been awarded a student­ship and after she inquired by tele­phone it was discovered that it was not her name that was published in the paper. The studentship was for attendance at a teachers' college well away from her home, which would have been unusual. It was then found that there were two girls with an identical name and one only had been awarded a studentship. In view of the fact that this other girl had been led to believe she would receive a studentship both through the press and by telephonic com­munication with the department, I directed that she be awarded one· also.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-In view of the state­ment of the Minister of Education concerning the allocation of student­ships, and in order to stand by his statement that none has been refused, will the honorable gentleman guaran­tee the honorable member for Mid­lands that the constituent from whom he received the letter to which he has referred will receive a studentship?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-If the facts outlined by the honorable member for Midlands are justified, certainly.

SUNBURY FESTIVAL. Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).­

In view of the great desire of the Chief Secretary to be "in it" and "with it", I should like him to inform the House how m'any police were allocated to the Sunbury

festival and whether they were paid for by the entrepreneurs or the Government; and, having regard to the allegedly good. behaviour of those who were "doing their thing" at Sunbury, does the honorable gentleman consider that it would have been better to allocate those police officers to Melbourne so that they could chase bashers and murderers?

Mr. HAMER· (Chief Secretary).­I cannot give the exact number of police officers involved, but I think it would have been 50 or so. The police officers who were allocated to the festival were paid for by the festival organizers. That is the usual prac­tice at football matches or other public entertainments. As reported to me, the behaviour of those who attended the festival was extremely good, whether people were "doing their thing" or otherwise.

Whether it is a league or association match or any other assembly at which a large number of people are in attend­ance, the usual practice is that police officers are allocated at the expense of the organizers, and I do not regard that as a breach of a policeman's duty. I assure the honorable member for Williamstown that a very large group of policemen are directing their attention to bashings.

TEACHERS TRIBUNAL. Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).­

Is the Minister of Education aware that the latest annual report issued by the Teachers Tribunal was that for the year 1967-68, and will the honor­able gentleman arrange for the ot.her annual reports to be made available prior to the debate on the Bill relating to the reconstruction of the tribunal?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-1 thank the honorable member for Deer Park for his ques­tion. I signed the reports for the two succeeding years this morning. They will be presented to the Governor in Council today, and will be tabled in the House at the earliest possible opportuni ty.

Victorian Arts Centre Bill. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Firearms (Amendment) Bill. 3805

VICTORIAN ARTS CENTRE BILL. Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary), by

leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the National Art Gallery and Cultural Centre Act 1956 and for other purposes.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

CRIMES (POWERS OF ARREST) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Crimes Act 1958 with respect to powers of arrest and for purposes connected therewith.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

DISPOSAL OF UNCOLLECTED GOODS (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Disposal of Un­collected Goods Act 1961.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

TRUSTEE COMPANIES (SANDHURST AND NORTHERN

DISTRICT TRUSTEES EXECUTORS AND AGENCY COMPANY

LIMITED) BILL. Mr. REID (Attorney-General), by

leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to vary the restrictions imposed in relation to the capital and shares of Sandhurst and Northern District Trustees Executors and Agency Company Limited, to amend the Second Schedule of the Trustee Companies Act 1958 and for other purposes.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

FIREARMS (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary), by

leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Firearms Act 1958 with respect to the licensing of persons to use, carry or possess firearms, to amend the Game Act 1958, and for other purposes.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND ABORIGINAL RELICS PRESERVATION BILL.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to make provision for the preservation of archaeological and Aboriginal relics.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

VICTORIA INSTITUTE OF COLLEGES (AFF"ILIATED

COLLEGES) BILL. Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of

Education), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Victoria Institute of Colleges Act 1965 in relation to the accounts of affiliated colleges, and for other pur­poses.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

LAND (GREYHOUND RACING) BILL.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend section 222A of the Land Act 1958 to enable trustees and committees of manage­ment of reserved lands to grant leases for the purposes of greyhound racing or purposes connected there­with.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read

a first time.

3806 Unordered Goods and [ASSEIVIBL Y.] Services Bill.

MELBOURNE LAND (ROYAL MELBOURNE INSTITUTE OF

TECHNOLOGY) BILL. Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of

Lands), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill relating to certain land in the City of Melbourne.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read

a first time.

SEAMEN'S (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for

Social Welfare), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Seamen's Act 1958 with respect to seamen of foreign vessels.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read

a first time.

DOOR TO DOOR SALES BILL. Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of

Labour and Industry) .-By leave, I move-

That the following Order of the Day, Government Business, be read and dis­charged:-

Door to Door Sales Bill-(from Council) -Second reading-Resumption of debate. It is proposed to withdraw this Bill and another measure. The proposals contained in those Bills will be incorporated in an entirely new measure dealing with consumer legislation in Victoria, the object being to consolidate the law on this subject. Honorable members will have ample opportunity of discussing fully the proposed new Bill.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Leave is granted.

The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was withdrawn.

UNORDERED GOODS AND SERVICES BILL.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-By leave, I move-

That the following Order of the Day, Government Business, be read and dis­charged:-

Unordered Goods and Services Bill­Second reading-Resumption of debate.

The reasons given for the withdrawal of the previous Bill apply equally to this measure.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Mem­bers of the Opposition raise no objec­tion to the Minister's proposal. The Government was courteous enough to discuss the matter with us and explained why it is desired to with­draw these two measures and incorporate their provisions in a new Bill.

The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was withdrawn.

DISPOSAL OF UNCOLLECTED GOODS (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time.

Its purpose is to implement recom­mendations for amendment of the Disposal of Uncollected Goods Act 1961 made by the Statute Law Revision Committee in its report dated 9th March, 1971. That Act was the result of an investigation made in 1960 by a previous Statute Law Revision Committee. It was designed to assist repairers of un­collected goods by granting them the right to sell such goods and to recover the cost of repairs from the proceeds, but limiting and regulating the right of sale so as to provide due protection for the customers.

The main purposes of the proposed amendments are-(a) to require bailees of goods to maintain a record of disposal of uncollected goods;

(b) to enable a repairer to dispose of uncollected goods left for quota­tion and upon which no repairs have been made; and

(c) to simplify the procedure enabl­ing a bailee to dispose of goods, whether or not repairs have been made.

These amendments, although pri­marily designed to assist repairers, are also designed to protect customers and prevent abuses of the Act.

Disposal of Un'collected [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Goods (Amendment) Bill. 3807

Clause 2 of the Bill proposes a number of amendments of section 3 of the principal Act. Paragraph (a) of the clause gives effect to the recommendations of the Statute Law Revision Committee that the period during which goods are to be held be reduced to one month, and that the number of notices required be reduced to one.

Paragraph (b) flows from the recommendation of the committee that a bailee should not be required to sell by public auction if he believes a better result can be obtained by private sale or where the market value of the goods is less than $20. Paragraphs (c) and (d) contain amendments consequential upon other provisions of the Bill. Para­graph (e) implements the views of the committee on the content of notices to be given by bailees.

Clause 3 proposes an alternative procedure for goods having a value not exceeding $20, as re­commended by the committee. The bailee is exempted from advertising the goods, and in the proposed sec­tion 3B provision is made for the case where the bailee is unable to give notice to the bailor.

Clause 4 substitutes a new pro­vision for sub-section (2) of section 5 to implement the recommendation of the committee on the records to be kept by bailees in respect of goods sold or disposed of under the Act. Clause 5 proposes consequential amendments of section 6 of the prin­cipal Act in the light of substantive amendments contained in the Bill.

Clause 6 proposes the insertion in the Act of new sections 12 and 13. The new section 12 implements the committee's recommendation that all bailees should be required to keep a record of disposal of uncollected goods, whether or not the right to deal with the goods was obtained under the Act. The new section 13 gives effect to the recommendation of the committee that the Act should contain a provision similar to section 24 of the Hire Purchase Act 1959.

The foregoing clauses deal with all the amendments recommended by the committee, other than those re­ferred to in paragraphs 24 and 25 of its report. Paragraph 24 refers to the prescribing of the form of docu­ments. As to this the view is taken that the precise terms of the amend­ments in the Bill leave little room for prescription of the form of the docu­ments referred to by the committee. Paragraph 25 recommends penal pro­visions for failure to keep certain records and for falsification of valua­tion of goods. It appears, however, that sub-section (3) of section 5 of the Act, together with the proposed section 12, adequately deals with this matter.

As the committee has pointed out in its report, the principal Act is ad­ministered by the Law Department. This situation resulted from the fact that the legislation did not originate from a particular department but was introduced by the Attorney-General of the day in the light of the recom­mendations of the Statute Law Re­vision Committee in 1960. The Gov­ernment adopts the view of the pre­sent committee, expressed in para­graph 23 of its report, that the ad­ministration of the Act should be transferred to the Department of Labour and Industry. Subject to the passage of the Bill, this will be done. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. LOVE­GROVE (Sunshine), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 7.

SEAMEN'S (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for

Social Welfare) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

This short Bill repeals sections 6, 7 and 8 of the principal Act and makes certain consequential amendments to section 10.

The Seamen's Act 1958 has its origins in Colonial legislation and the sections which this Bill proposes to

3808 Victorian Arts [ASSEMBLY.] Centre Bill.

repeal refer in general to seamen of foreign vessels. They relate to the apprehension of deserting seamen and their imprisonment for assaulting officers, for disobedience, neglect of duty, desertion, drunkenness and other misconduct, and to the power of a justice to order a seaman con­victed under the Act to be put forcibly aboard his ship.

After the establishment of the Commonwealth of Australia similar Federal legislation was enacted and is contained in the Navigation Act 1912-67. As it is normal practice for an offending seaman to be dealt with under the provisions of that Act, there appears to be little reason why the relevant provisions of the Victorian Seamen's Act should remain in the statutes.

One further reason prompts the repeal of these sections. When the Commonwealth Government ratified the International Labour Organization Convention number 105-Abolition of Forced Labour-it drew attention to the sections which this Bill seeks to repeal as being in possible contraven­tion of the terms of the convention. The measure before the House removes the possibility.

On the motion of Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown), the debate was ad­journed.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 7.

VICTORIAN ARTS CENTRE BILL. Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­

I move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

This short Bill changes the name of the National Art Gallery and Cultural Centre to the Victorian Arts Centre, makes consequential adjustments to the titles of the building committee and the trust fund, and provides that moneys in the trust fund may be invested in such securities as the Treasurer approves. For some time the name "Victorian Arts Centre" has been used, and this Bill to effect the formal alteration is well overdue.

Because the complex is planned to be much more than an art gallery, the Government considers that it should embrace all the arts, both visual and performing. In addition to the gallery, the completed centre will contain an opera-ballet theatre, a drama theatre and a lecture and experimental theatre, and together with rooms and restaurants it will be sited under a very prominent spire. This Bill will give effect to the title by which this complex has for long been known.

In addition, the Bill regularizes in the principal Act the title of the body which nominates two persons for appointment to the building commit­tee. What were formerly known as the trustees of the National Gallery of Victoria are now called members of the Council of Trustees of that body. Clause 3 makes a significant change to the investment provisions of the principal Act.

Under the existing provisions moneys from the trust fund may be invested only in securities autho­rized for the investment of trust funds. The building committee accumulates funds from donations, car park rentals and Government advances. When substantial sums become available from donations in most cases they have been invested in mortgages for periods of up to seven years. Mortgages meet the require­ments of trustee securities but are rarely available for small sums. The Government considers that it would be of considerable value to the com­mittee if it were enabled to take prompt advantage of other forms of investment which might not meet the requirement of trustee securities but which were equally sound and would be acceptable to the Treasurer.

The proposed amendment will enable the committee to add con­siderably to the yield from funds which become available from time to time. I commend the amendment to the House. This is in line with invest­ment powers conceded to other bodies in a similar position, parti-

Land (Greyhound [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Racing) Bill. 3809

cularly where funds are available for a short time and then are required. It is difficult to obtain short term investment, and so considerable income can be lost.

It is appropriate that I place on record the Government's appreciation of the work done by the members of the building committee. The gentlemen concerned have given unstintingly of their time, and the results of their labours are now bearing fruit. They are all men of eminence and achievement in the community who have given much time to the building committee and to the work of this centre. The results of their work are now plainly apparent. The completed National Gallery is a very fine gallery by any standard in the world with a fine and comprehen­sive collection of the arts. It has already attracted more than 3 million visitors.

Mr. EDMuNDs.-The public must pay to get in.

Mr. HAMER.-That is so, and the proceeds go to improving the gallery and its collections, not to the adminis­tration. So far, I have not heard one single complaint, and it would ~e niggardly for anyone to complaIn. The planning and building of the Victorian Arts Centre is one of the most important cultural achievements of this century. The successful com­pletion of the gallery, together w:ith the exciting prospect of completmg the centre, must give all members of the committee a great deal of satis­faction. The building of the National Gallery shows that they can plan within a budget and within a time limi t and achieve something worth while for this community. I have much pleasure in introducing this Bill and in commending it to the House.

On the motion of Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray), the debate was ad­journed.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 7.

LAND (GREYHOUND RACING) BILL.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time.

The Racing (Amendment) Act 1971 provides for the establishment of a Greyhound Racing Grounds Develop­ment Board which will administer the Greyhound Racing Grounds De­velopment Fund. The fund is on similar lines to the Racecourses Development Fund and its main pur­pose is to assist greyhound racing clubs to make permanent improve­ments to greyhound-racing grounds.

There are 9 greyhound-racing clubs registered under the Racing Act, of which 5 have grounds on Crown reserves and 4 are established on freehold land. The Racing Act allows for the registration of another 4 clubs.

In 1963, the Land Act 1958 was amended by the insertion of section 222A to give trustees or the com­mittee of management of a Crown reserve used for horse-racing power to lease for horse-racing or purposes associated therewith.

The purpose of the Land (Grey­hound Racing) Bill is to extend the powers of section 222A to give trust­ees or the committee of management of a Crown reserve used for grey­hound racing power to lease for that purpose or purposes associated there­with.

It is the policy of the Greyhound Racing Grounds Development Board to authoriz'e payments out of the fund only to clubs which conduct racing on grounds situated on a Crown reserve under the control of trustees or a committee of management. Some of the clubs which operate on free­hold land may desire to surrender their land to the Crown pursuant to section 22D of the Land Act, so that it can be reserved and leased back to the club by a committee of manage­ment pursuant to section 222A.

There are only two clauses to the Bill. Clause 1 cites the short title and names the Land Act 1958 as the

3810 Land (Greyhound [ASSEMBLY.] Racing) Bill.

principal Act. Clause 2 amends s-ec­tion 222A of the principal Act by inserting greyhound-racing as a pur­pose for which the trustees or a com­mittee of management of a Crown reserve used for greyhound-racing may lease for such purpos-e or pur­poses associated therewith. I com­mend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North), the debate was adjourned.

I t was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 7.

MELBOURNE LAND (ROYAL MELBOURNE INSTITUTE OF

TECHNOLOGY) BILL. Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of

Lands) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

I ts purpose is to provide for Bowen Lane and Pharmacy Place in the City of Melbourne to be closed as roads. It is proposed that the land comprised therein shall be reserved for educa­tional purposes for the benefit of the Royal Melbourne Institute of Tech­nology.

In 1971 the institute, in the ad­vanced college alone, had a total enrolment of 10,060 students. It is predicted that by 1984 enrolments will reach between 12,000 and 13,000. The institute is proceeding with a redevelopment plan encompassing its whole site and the roads are required for the most efficient building layout.

Many of the original buildings on the site are unsuitable for teaching purposes. This applies particularly to the buildings adjoining Bowen Lane and Pharmacy Place. Demoli­tion of certain buildings and other preparatory work in areas abutting those two roads are currently scheduled to commence within the 1973-75 triennium.

All the land abutting the two roads is occupied by the institute. Apart from a small property situated at 336-338 Swanston Street and owned by the Australia and New Zea­land Bank Limited, the abutting land is either reserved for educational

purposes or held in title by the Mini­ster of Education. The institute is presently negotiating to purchase the bank's premises.

An inspection has indicated that although the roads are paved and open to traffic, they are used only by staff, students, and delivery trades people of the institute. The Mel­bourne City Council, the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Worksp and the Gas and Fuel Corporation have no objection to the closing of the roads. All of these bodies have assets in the roads and the institute has reached agreement with them in respect of purchase by the institute or the relocation of such assets.

Pharmacy Place was permanently reserved under the Land Act for a road in 1887 and provision is made in the Bill to revoke this reservation accordingly. The northern end of Bowen Lane and the eastern end of Pharmacy Place were closed some years ago and reserved for educa­tional purposes.

Clause 1 of the Bill cites the short title. Clause 2 provides that the lands shown hatched and cross­hatched on the plan in the schedule shall cease to be roads. Clause 3 revokes the permanent reservation of Pharmacy Place. Clause 4 is the usual provision that no liability shall attach to the Crown.

The schedule shows a plan of the roads proposed to be closed. Bowen Lane is indicated by hatching and Pharmacy Place by cross-hatching~ I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. WILKES (Northcote), the debate was ad­journed.

It was ordered that the debate be­adjourned until Tuesday, March 7.

CRIMES (POWERS OF ARREST) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).-­I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time ..

It has its origins in ·the report, dated 14th November, 1968, of the Statute­Law Revision Committee upon

Crimes (Powers of [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Arrest) Bill.· 3811

arrests without warrant and related matters. In that report the commit­tee made a number of recommenda­tions designed to achieve clarity and simplicity in the law concerning arrest. Subsequently the Chief Justice's Law Reform Committee set up a sub-committee to consider the Statute Law Revision Committee's report and also two drafts which had been prepared with a vieW to im­plementing the recommendations. The Chief Justice's Law Reform .committee eventually adopted a report on the matter on 20th Novem­ber, 1969.

Considerable difficulty was ex­perienced in drafting legislation to take into account the views ex­pressed by the two law reform bodies on arrest without warrant, and this measure is the result of a most care­ful examination of the matter.

I think it will be most convenient if I refer in detail to the recommenda­tions made in the two reports as I comment on the clauses of the Bill. Because it will be necessary to make a number of references to the report of the Statute Law Revision Commit­tee, I shall for convenience refer to it as " the Parliamentary committee's report ".

Clause 1 contains the usual cita­tion and commencement provisions. Clause 2 proposes the substitution of new provisions for sections 457 to 463 of the Crimes Act 1958, which deal with the apprehension of cer­tain offenders without warrant.

I shall now explain and comment upon the effect of the proposed new provisions. Proposed new section 457 replaces any common law provisions on powers of arrest without warrant, and will have the result that after its passage the only such powers which will be available will be those conferred by the pro­visions in the Bill or by the express provisions of some other Act. This section gives effect to the view ex­pressed in paragraph 100 of the Parliamentary committee's report that the new provision should replace the common law on the powers

of arrest of police. I t also extends to powers of citizens to arrest without warrant, in the light of the recommendation in paragraph 101 of the same report.

New section 458 sets out the powers of both members of the Police Force and citizens to apprehend without warrant persons found committing offences or in certain other circum­stances. Sub-section (1) specifies the circumstances in which persons may be so apprehended, and is based upon the recommendations in para­graphs 93, 101 and 103 of the Par­liamentary committee's report.

In paragraph 103 the committee recommended that the distinction between felonies and misdemeanours should be formally abolished, leaving only the distinction between indic­table and non-indictable offences. While this principle has been adopted in the Bill, the implementa­tion of the recommendation on a broader basis has raised technical problems of considerable complexity. The matter has been referred to the Chief Justice's Law Reform Com­mittee and will be further considered when a report is received.

Sub-section (2) excepts from the operation of sub-section (1) con­traventions of subordinate legislation in respect of which express statu­tory provision for arrest without warrant has not been made. This sub-section implements the recom­mendation made in paragraph 95 of the Parliamentary committee's re­port.

Sub-section (3) provides that a person apprehended without warrant for a summary offence shall be held in custody only so long as one of the reasons specified in para­graph (a) of sub-section (1) con­tinues. It requires the person making the arrest to release the person apprehended either with or without bail, when the reason for apprehen­sion no longer continues. This pro­vision gives effect to the recommen­dations made in paragraph 104 of the Parliamentary committee's re­port.

3812 Crimes (Powers of [ASSEMBLY.] Arrest) Bill.

New section 459 gives to a member of the Police Force, in addition to the powers conferred by pro­posed section 458, power to apprehend without warrant a person who, he believes on reason­able grounds, has committed an in­dictable offence in Victoria or an offence elsewhere which if commit­ted in Victoria would be an indictable offence. This proposed provision, together with paragraph (a) of sub­section (1) of proposed section 458, is based upon the recommendation made in paragraph 92 of the Parlia­mentary committee's report. In rela­tion to offences committed outside Victoria, the proposed section 459 has been drafted in the light of the views expressed in paragraphs 105 et seq. of that report.

Proposed section 460 sets out the procedure for dealing with a person arrested without warrant. It re­enacts the provisions of section 39 of the Justices Act 1958, but extends them to persons arrested for offences committed outside Victoria.

Proposed section 461 provides, in effect, that arrest on reasonable grounds shall not be taken to be un­lawful, and that a member of the Police Force shall not be bound to take a person into custody or before a jus­tice if proceedings upon summons would be effective. This provision, together with the proposed section 460, contains the substance of sub­sections (1) and (2) of section 51 of the Summary Offences Act 1966. It also implements the recommenda­tion in paragraph 102 of the Parlia­mentary committee's report and gives statutory expression to the belief stated in paragraph 96 of that report.

New section 462 defines the expres­sion "finds committing" for the pur­poses of the new provisions, parti­cularly paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of new s'ection 458, and is sub-stantially similar to sub-section (3) of section 51 of the Summary Offences Act.

Proposed section 463 implements the recommendation in the report adopted by the Chief Justice's Law

Mr. Reid.

Reform Committee that specific pro­vision be made in relation to the pro­cedures which may be carried out when a person is in lawful custody. The proposed section provides for search, medical examination and taking of prints of hands, fingers, feet or toes of the person in custody, and placing him in an identification parade.

Clause 3 provides for the repeal of sub-section (3) of section 81 of the principal Act in relation to apprehen­sion of persons found stealing or illegally using motor cars. That pro­vision will become redundant upon the provisions of the Bill coming into operation.

Clause 4 likewise provides for the repeal of an existing provision which will be redundant when the new provisions come into operation. In this case part of section 235 of the principal Act, dealing with arrest of persons for injuries to telegraphs, is affected.

Clause 5 provides for the conse­quential repeals set out in the schedule to the Bill. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) , the debate was ad­journed.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 7.

WESTERN PORT (STEEL WORKS RATING) BILL.

The Order of the Day for the resumption of the debate on the motion for the second reading of this Bill was read.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I mention that in the recess I have examined this Bill under Standing Order No. 264B and it is my opinion that it is a private Bill.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-By leave--

Mr. WILToN.-Leave is refused. The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon

Christie).-If leave is refused, there is precedent for nqtice being given.

Western Port [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] (Steel Works Rating) Bill. 3813

I take it that notice is being given so that it can be handled later this day?

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­On a pOint of order, Mr. Speaker, 1 direct your attention to Standing Order No. 36 which reads-

No notice of motion shall be received after the Assembly shall have proceeded to the business of the day as set down on the Notice Paper.

I appreciate that, in the interests of expediency and where the members of the Opposition and other honor­able members have been in general agreement, precedents have been accepted by the House. However, I submit that where a Standing Order is specific and precise, and that if an honorable member takes the view that that Standing Order should be adhered to, the precedents of the House should not outweigh a precise and definite Standing Order.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The honorable member for Broad­meadows has suggested that pre­cedents do not necessarily rule the conduct of this House. I remind you, Mr. Speaker-no doubt you are aware of it-that there are these precedents, and it is only common­sense to allow notice to be given so that the matter can be proceeded with tomorrow, without requiring notice to be given even today if that could be done. Nevertheless, it is obviously within your province, Sir, and within the precedents set by this House to allow notice to be given at this stage. I refer you to the debate on the Masseurs (Registration) Bill which is reported at page 496 of volume 251 of Hansard, where this procedure was adopted without demur. A much earlier precedent was set with the Tooborac Tramway Agreement Ratification Bill as re­ported at page 360 of volume 116 of Hansard. No doubt, there are many more precedents for the suspension of Standing Orders to allow notice to be given at this stage.

Mr. WILToN.-That is when the House is in agreement.

Mr. HAMER.-Mr. Speaker, it is now being decided whether you will accept the giving of notice at this stage. This practice has been adopted on several previous occa­sions and obviously it is common­sense.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-This is a vexed question; but some time ago, Mr. Speaker, your ruling made the matter crystal clear. On this occasion, I should have thought that the Minis­ter would be aware of the procedures that would be required because, on 25th November, 1971, as reported at page 3182 of Hansard, the Minister of Transport said- .

This is a private Bill and it Is complement­ary to other legislMion which is already before the Parliament.

There can be no question about what the Minister knew of the Bill at that time. Therefore, it is a matter of courtesy and procedure that the honorable gentleman should give notice in conformity with Standing Order No. 36, which states-

No notice of motion shall be received after the Assembly shall have proceeded to the business of the day as set down on the Notice Paper.

If this House is to be run as a Par­liament should be conducted, it should adhere to the rules and the Standing Orders. Member of the Op­position have never objected to that procedure. The Government has al­ways taken exception when the ball has been thrown into its court. On this occasion m'embers of the Oppos­ition believe the proper procedure should be adopted, and notice should be given.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I should like to ask the Chief Secretary to repeat the refer­ence to which he referred in one case.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary) (By leave) I gave two references.

The SPEAKER.-I refer to the second case.

3814 Western Port [ASSEMBLY.] (Steel Works Rating) Bill.

Mr. HAMER.-I referred to the Tooborac Tramway Agreement Rati­fication Bill, which was debated on 30th July, 1907, and was reported at page 360 of volume 116 of Hansard.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The Government will not make an issue of this measure being declared a private Bill and treated as a public Bill. It is a private Bill in the strictest sense. I was proposing that it be treated as a public Bill. I realize that I need leave. I also realize that members of the Opposi­tion can refuse leave in the same way as can any other honorable member.

Mr. WILKEs.-We have been very good today.

Mr. WILCOX.-This Bill has been on the Notice Paper for some con­siderable time. I understand, Mr. Speaker, that you have ruled it to be a private Bill, and in those circum­stances, I proposed to move that Private Bill Standing Orders, except those relating to the payment of fees, be dispensed with and that this Bill be treated as a public Bill. If that is not acceptable to honorable members, I shall not press the matter. If leave is refused, I shall deal with it tomorrow. I do not contend that there is great urgency in the matter; the Bill has been on the Notice Paper since the last ses­sional period. I should have thought that honorable members would be aware that, on the first day of sitting, one looks for some business to get the House going.

Mr. WILToN.-W'e will carry on; I am ready to go on.

Mr. WILCOX.-Honorable mem­bers have agreed to that course, and when the Order of the Day was called on it seemed to be a reasonable way to proceed.

Mr. WILKEs.-We conceded that.

Mr. WILCOX.-A procedural point has to be resolved.

Mr. WILToN.-That is one fact, but the debate can proceed.,

Mr. WILCOX.-So long as the de­bate can proceed, I will give notice of motion to treat the Bill as a public Bill.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I take it that leave is now granted?

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows) (By leave) .-No. In explanation, I indicate that the Opposition's opinion is that there is no reason why the second-reading debate cannot proceed immedia tely. The point the Opposition makes is not on whether it is a orivate Bill or a public Bill-you have decided that issue, Mr. Speaker. Members of the Opposition submit that the question is the giving of notice of motion and I refer you to the appropriate Stand­ing Order.

The SPEAKER.-I am a little mysti­fied. Leave has been refused and the Government has indicated that it desires the debate to proceed. The honorable member for Broadmead­ows pointed out that this is contra'ry to Standing Order No. 36 and on the face of it, it certainly looks that way. It appears that it will now come on tomorrow in this form.

Mr. WILTON.-May I make a further explanation? I submit that it is the opinion of the Opposition that there is no reason why the second-reading debate on the Bill cannot proceed immediately. The point that the Opposition takes exception to is that the Minister wishes to give notice today of a motion that he intends to move to­morrow which will put this Bill in a particular category. I have drawn your attention to the appropriate Standing· Order-Standing Order No. 36-and I am still of the opinion that the Minister has to abide by the Standing Orders. However, there is no reason why the seoond-reading: debate cannot proceed today.

The SPEAKER.-I can deal with that. The Bill came forward as a public Bill. I read it after the second­reading debate was adjourned and I

Western Port [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] (Steel Works Rating) Bill. 3815

have informed the House that in my opinion it is a private Bill. The Minister of Transport therefore wishes to move a motion by leave, but leave has been refused. The Private Bill Standing Orders, which are old and seldom used, lay down a procedure to be followed. If the debate proceeds, the Bill must be debated as a public Bill, but as I have ruled that it is a private Bill it can­not be debated as a public Bill. The House is faced with a position that is a simple one. When there has been a similar occurrence in the past, the House has been good enough to accept notice on this day for it to operate on the following day, but I understand that the Opposition, under Standing Order No. 36, does not wish to do that this time.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) (By leave) .-As succinctly as I can put it to you, Mr. Speaker, the position is simply that the Oppo­sition has made a decision that it is not prepared to debate this Bill other than as a private Bill. At its party meeting the Opposition decided that it was not prepared to debate the measure as a public Bill and the Opposition is bound by that decision. If the Government wants to proceed with the Bill as a private Bill and .can get over the ruling which was given, then members of the Opposi­tion will agree to that procedure, ,otherwise we are bound by the decision we have taken and we feel very strongly about it. Therefore we will debate the measure today only as a private Bill.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I am very well informed on the matter and I thank all honor­able members for their contributions. It is true that in a case similar to this, with no ruling being given, on the Masseurs (Registration) Bill, as re­ported at page 496, volume 251 of Hansard, the House apparently did re­fuse leave but did not make an issue of it and notice was given, even though it may have been contrary to Standing Order No. 36. No point of order was taken and on that occasion

what was done by the House appears to have been contrary to the Standing Order. In my view, with no point of order being taken and no decision being given by the Chair, that proce­dure cannot be taken as a precedent because it was adopted with the gene­ral acquiescence of the House.

The other reference raised by the Chief Secretary was the Tooborac Tramway Agreement Ratification Bill. It is reported at page 360 of volume 116 of Hansard that Mr. Swinburne moved, on the Speaker having said that he thought the Bill was a private Bill, that the Bill be treated as a public Bill. The report continues-

Mr. Prendergast said he was satisfied that the Speaker's ruling was correct, and that this Bill should be treated as a private Bill. He objected, and therefore the honorable gentleman would have to give notice.

It is true that there was no ruling that notice would have to be given. In the absence of a precedent being clearly given by the Chair, I must under these circumstances uphold the point of order that Standing Order No. 36 is stronger as a Standing Order of this House. In the cases quoted no ruling has been given by the Chair that would create such a strong precedent that Standing Order No. 36 should be overridden. In this case, notice has to be given for tomorrow . That matter is disposed of.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­May I raise a further point of order? With respect I draw your attention to Private Bill Standing Order No. 118, which clearly sets out that on the completion of the second­reading of the Bill and its com­mittal, the Bill shall be referred to a committee. I submit to you that there is no limitation placed on this House at this point to prevent it from proceeding with the second­reading debate and in fact getting to the Committee stages of the Bill.

The SPEAKER.-Order! Techni­cally I should uphold the point of order but that would not mean very much because of the Standing Orders on private Bills. The Standing Orders have been applied in this way -during

3816 Western Port [ASSEMBLY.] (Steel Works Rating) Bill.

the whole of my experience in this House over the past seventeen years and there is no point in saying that because of the Standing Orders rela­ting to private Bills the debate should go on, if in fact the GovernIl?-ent, whose Bill it is, does not want It to go on under that condition. It is my task to rule, as I have ruled, that in the absence of any ruling from the Chair being stronger Standing Order No. 36 must stand.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-Honorable members are just about getting a clear understanding of the matter and most of us realize what is happening, but so there can be no misunderstanding I inform the House that the Government is happy to proceed with the second-reading debate and I know that honorable members opposite would also be happy to proceed with it. You, Mr. Speaker, have ruled that the Bill is a private Bill and the House is prohibi­ted by the Standing Orders from pro­ceeding unless there is a procedural motion to overcome the effects of the Standing Orders. If 1 give notice to the House that tomorrow 1 will move that the Bill be treated as a public Bill, is there any possibility of that being accepted by honorable mem­bers so that the House could then proc~ed with the second-reading debate? The Government is not try­ing to force this measure through to get the second-reading debate com­pleted tonight, but it seems that some of the available time of the House could be used on the second-reading debate on this Bill. I put that pro­position to you, Sir, and to members of the Opposition.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I want to reassure you, Sir, and to make it crystal clear to the House that the Opposition is prepared to proceed along the lines 1 have suggested. Opposition members are prepared to debate this measure in accordance with the attitude they have adopted­that is, as a private Bill-but we are prohibited from doing that because of the Standing Order. It is up to the Government to find a way out. We

have taken our position; we have made it clear that we will debate the measure as a private Bill, because we are strongly of the view that it should be a private Bill.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I suggest that the speeches from both sides of the House should close the matter. It might well be discussed later outside -not necessarily in the House.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-1 move-

That the debate be now adjourned. I suggest that the debate be ad­

journed until tomorrow. Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­

I oppose the motion. I shall not. go into any great detail on the questIOn of private Bills, since the House has already been enlightened on that point. The Government. introduced this measure before ChrIstmas, and in his opening remarks th.e Minis~er said that it was a prIvate BIll. Despite that, the honorable gentle­man took no steps under Standing Orders which apply to public Bills to ensure that the debate could be con­tinued.

When the Bill was called on today, the Minister sought leave of the House to move a motion of which he should have given notice before Christmas. It is not the Opposition's responsibility to ensure that the Government enacts legislation under the appropriate Standing Ord~rs .. ~f the Standing Orders are archaIc, It IS the Government's responsibility to do something about them. They are on the books of the Parliament, and they apply until they are suspended.

It is wrong for the Government at this stage to move that the debate ~e adjourned in view of t~e fact t~at I~ the pre-Christmas seSSIOnal penod It was adamant that the Bill should be called on as early as possible. I moved an amendment to the Minis­ter's motion for the adjournment of the debate with the view of obtaining a reasonable period of adjournment. The House divided on the amend­ment, and it was defeated. The

Western Port [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] (Steel Works Rating) Bill. 3817

Minister now wishes to have the debate adjourned again simply be­cause he has made a mess of the whole business by taking it for granted that the House would give him leave to move for the suspen­sion of Standing Orders. The Opposition will not be taken for granted; and I am sure that the Country Party adopts the same attitude. The proper procedure is that there should be a resumption of the second-reading debate.

Mr. WILCOX.-It cannot be re­sumed.

Mr. WILTON.-What is to stop it?

Mr. WILCOX.-You are the one who said it.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie ).-Order! The simple ques­tion before the House is that the debate be adjourned. In the interests of the House I think it should be, so that the matter can be teased out.

Mr. WILTON.-If you have ruled in that way, Mr. Speaker, I must accept it, but it seems to me-and I say this with the utmost respect-that it is a most extraordinary ruling.

The SPEAKER.-I think the honor­able member is forgetting himself slightly.

Mr. WILTON.-No, I am not.

The SPEAKER.-Is the honorable member reflecting on a ruling of the Chair?

Mr. WILTON.-No, Mr. Speaker, I am merely expressing my amaze­ment 'at the ruling.

The SPEAKER.-The honorable member does reflect on the Chair by doing that, and he should withdraw. He has me mystified, because I thought he was very much in favour of the ruling. In the interests of the procedures of this House, the honor­able member should withdraw any reflection on the Chair.

Mr. WILTON.-I withdraw, Mr. Speaker. I am in complete agreement with your ruling on Standing Order No. 36, but I am at a loss to under­stand why the debate cannot continue. I understood that your ruling applied to the Minister's giving notice that he intended to move a motion. In my opinion-and without in any way reflecting on your ruling-I ask you to say that your ruling which applied to Standing Order No. 36 must be upheld. I submit that it applies to the Minister's right to give notice that he intends to move a certain motion.

The SPEAKER.-I think the honor­able member for Broadmeadows mis­understands the situation. This is a debate on whether the debate should be adjourned, not on whether the Bill is a public or private Bill. I do sug­gest to the honorable member that this is a matter which the House could well dispose of quickly.

Mr. WILTON.-I shall content my­self with saying that I disagree with the procedure that has been followed by the Minister. I do not think the debate should be adjourned; it should proceed, with the Bill being treated as a private Bill, and the appropriate Standing Orders should apply. I oppose the motion.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-Mr. Speaker--

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-The Minister moved the motion.

Mr. WILCOX.-I do not think I spoke on it.

The SPEAKER.-Order! The Deputy Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-The Opposition opposes the motion for the adjournment of the debate for two reasons: Firstly, Mr. Speaker, you have ruled in a certain way, and the motion for the adjournment of the debate until later this day does not comply with your ruling; and secondly, the Opposition does not intend to debate the measure as a public Bill.

3818 Western Port [ASSEMBLY.] (Steel Works Rating)Bill.

Opposition members do not accept the view that it should be treated as a public Bill; they believe that those responsible for the proposed legisla­tion should pay for it and that it should not be paid for by the public of Victoria. This is our position. It is not a question of how, when or why it is debated; we do not acquiesce in the Government's pro­posed motion that the measure be treated as a public Bill.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-There are two questions. The first is that the debate be adjourned and the second concerns time. I propose to put the first ques­tion.

The House divided on the motion for the adjournment of the debate (Sir Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 36 Noes 21

Majority for motion 15

Mr. Billing Mr. Borthwick Mr. Burgin Mr. Crellin Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mrs. Goble Mr. Guy Mr. Hamer Mr. Hayes Mr. Jona Mr. McLaren Mr. Maclellan Mr. Meagher Mr. Mitchell Mr. Reese Mr. Reid Mr. Ross-Edwards

Mr. Amos Mr. Bornstein Mr. CI'arey Mr. Curnow Mr. Doube Mr. Edmunds Mr. Floyd Mr. Fordham Mr. Ginifer Mr. Kirkwood Mr. Lewis

(Dundas)

AYES.

Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

( Warrnambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Sir Edgar Tanner Mr. Taylor

(Balwyn) Mr. Taylor (Gippsland South)

Mr. Templeton Mr. Thompson Mr. Trethewey Mr. Trewin Mr. Wheeler Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilcox.

Tellers: Mr. Broad Mr. McCabe.

NOES.

Mr. Lewis (Portland)

Mr. Lind Mr. Lov·egrove Mr. Mutton Mr. Simmonds Mr. Trezise Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Fell Mr. ShiUon.

PAIRS.

Sir Henry Bolte I Mr. Holding Mr. MacDonald Mr. Turnbull.

(Glen Iris)

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-1 move-

That the debate be adjourned until tomorrow.

The Government desires that the House shall debate the Bill as a pub­lic Bill. In view of your ruling, Mr. Speaker, that it is a private Bill, and as the procedures of the House require notice to be given to have the measure treated as a public Bill, I have no option but to move that the debate be adjourned until tomorrow.

I point out to honorable members, and particularly to the honorable member for Broadmeadows, that only when Mr. Speaker ruled that the Bill was to be regarded as a private Bill was it competent for me to move that it be treated as a public Bill. Members of the Government are fully aware of the rules, and if honorable members wish to insist on their observance that is all right by us.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­I reiterate that the Opposition takes the view that as the Government undertook to introduce the Bill on behalf of the organization involved, the Government had a responsibility to make itself aware of the pro­cedures that must be followed. The Government has more facilities avail­able to it than the Opposition, yet before the House adjourned in De­cember the Opposition was aware that this was a private Bill.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie ).-Order! This is becoming a discussion on whether the Bill is public or private. The motion refers to a question of time.

Mr. WILTON.-It was the Gov­ernment's responsibility to ascertain all these matters. I do not believe I am being disrespectful to you, Sir, or to your high office, when I say that from a study of May and because of

Western Port [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] (Steel Works Rating) Bill. 3819

precedents members of the Opposi­tion formed the opinion that a cer­tain ruling would be given by the Chair.

The SPEAKER.-Order! The honor­able member is now discussing the ruling.

Mr. WILTON.-That is the only pOint I wish to make. The Government has taken an extraordinary course. The Government, not the Opposition, determines when the debate shall be called on. The Government called the debate on today and shortly afterwards moved that it be ad­journed. It forced that motion through with its numbers and now it wants the debate adjourned until tomorrow. This action has been taken because the Minister has dis­covered at this late stage that he should have followed certain pro­cedures when he introduced the measure prior to the adjournment of the House before Christmas. The honorable gentleman wishes to ex­tricate himself from this extraor­dinary position.

The motion was agreed to, and it was ordered that the debate be ad­journed until next day.

ADJOURNMENT. EDUCATION DEPARTMENT: UPFIELD

HIGH SCHOOL: WATSONIA TECH­NICAL SCHOOL: WATSONIA HIGH SCHOOL: ELTHAM HIGH SCHOOL: FUTURE OF CENTRAL SCHOOLS: TEACHING STUDENTSHIPS-MuNICI­PALITIES: RELIEF OF UNEMPLOY­MENT-CROWN SOLICITOR: REPRE­SENTATION OF MEMBERS OF PAR­LIAMENT-EARTH-MOVING EQUIP-MENT: SAFETY DEVICES-TREA-SURY: SUBSIDY FOR CORILONG CENTRE FOR THE MENTALLY HANDI­CAPPED-MELBOURNE SCHOOL OF HAIRDRESSING: TRAINING OF ApPRENTICES.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).-I move-

That the House, at its rising,' adjourn until tomorrow, at half-past Three o'clock.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I move-

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­I wish to raise a matter with the Minister of Education. In view of the Premier's press statement that because additional finance is becom­ing available to Victoria as a result of the recent Premiers Conference some stepping up will take I?lace in public works for the EducatIon De­partment, I direct the attentio~ of the Minister of Education to a serIOUS situation which exists at Upfield High School. The new wing at that school was supposed to be completed and ready for occupancy at the begin­ning of the school year, but the principal is having difficulty in get­ting the Public Works Department to complete the work. The electrical wiring has not been completed and wires are still hanging out of walls. Adequate furniture has not been delivered for the few class-rooms of the new wing that have become available. The site works, parti­cularly around the new wing, leave much to be desired. The site has not been properly cleaned up and only temporary works have been carried out.

In view of the indication by the Premier that funds will be made available to create work of a high­labour content in an effort to reduce current unemployment, I ask the honorable gentleman to confer with the appropriate officers immediately and see if the delivery of the furnI­ture can be expedited, the electrical work completed, and the site works improved.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) .­I direct the attention of the Min­

ister of Education to problems affect­ing the most crowded schools within the Greensborough electorate-Wat­sonia Technical School, Watsonia High School, and Eltham High School. A departmental instruction has been issued warning Watsonia High School and Eltham High School that despite overcrowding, shortage of staff and lack of accommodation,

3820 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

owing to the increasing number of children in this rapidly expanding electorate who must be educated, three portable hot-box class-rooms at each of the schools may have to be removed. There is serious over­crowding at the schools even with these portable class-rooms. I am sure honorable members would like to know what the Minister expects to be done with these children. Does the honorable gentleman expect them to go home, as is done at many schools? I cannot reconcile the Minister's statement with this instruc­tion.

The problem at the Watsonia Technical School made headlines in the local paper this week. At this school, in the words of officers of the Education Department, some students cannot be accommodated in class­rooms. This follows the Minister's latest statement that a technical school may be established at Diamond Creek East, in portable class-rooms if necessary.

The local community is incensed about the whole situation. The three most populous schools in the area are unable to cater for the students, and in addition the Minister states that a technical school may be established next year in portable class-rooms, despite deputations and facts and figures which have proved that a technical school should be established in permanent aCCommo­dation. According to the Minister's statement, the property at Diamond Creek East has not yet been purchased although negotiations are in hand. This is the situation eighteen months after the need for the school was established by offi'cers of the department. This position is not good enough in my electorate although it may be good enough in the Minister's electorate. I wish to be informed what action the honor­able gentleman proposes to take.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).­I desire to raise with the Minister of Education the question of his making a policy statement on the future of

central schools in Victoria. Some time ago, an attempt was made to close a central school in an eastern suburb. A considerable upheaval ensued the department withdrew its proposal and tha't central school still exists. In my electorate, the com­mittee of the Moonee Ponds Central School has over a lengthy period tried to obtain from the Education Depart­ment a statement about the future of the school. I believe this is bound up with the future of secondary educa­tion in the northern suburbs, particu­larly the location of a new secondary school or the enlargement of Fleming­ton Girls High School and its becoming a co-educational school. It is important that the Minister should make a policy statement about central schools. At Moonee Ponds Central School overcrowded conditions exist, but no action is being taken by the department because at some level there is a block in the pipeline about the future of central schools generally. As a ma tter of urgency I ask the Minister to examine the matter I have raised, and particularly to be precise as soon as practicable and possible on the future of Moonee Ponds Central School.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).- I wish to raise with the Minister represent­ing the Minister for Local Govern­ment a matter which I regard as urgent. As recently as 16th February-this is the first opportunity I have had of raising the matter­the Local Government Department, over the signature of Mr. J. R. Alder, Acting Secretary of the depart­ment, wrote to metropolitan muni­cipal councils advising them to make application for grants and statin~ that $1 million would be made avaIlable over the next four months for employment-creating activities in the metropolitan area. The letter also invited municipal councils to apply for grants for the immediate crea­tion of additional temporary jobs.

I point out to the Minister that it is a completely wrong attitude for the Local Government Department to be

Adjournment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3821

inviting councils to create temporary jobs when, if anything is to be done to relieve unemployment, jobs should be available on a more permanent basis-not as sustenance or the dole which existed in the 1930s. The Minister should be aware that many more permanent jobs could be carried out by municipalities with this money instead of inviting councils to employ men-skilled tradesmen, in some instances-on cutting grass in parks or clearing street gutters.

1 urge the Minister for Local Government to reconsider the letter sent out by his department with a view to relieving the unemployment situation on a more permanent basis instead of on the temporary basis that he suggested. The following paragraph in the letter emphasizes my point-

When preparing your application, you are requested to concentrate on short-term labour-intensive work.

If the municipalities carry out this proposal, in seven or eight weeks' time the unemployment situation will be no better than it is at present. 1 do not think it was the intention of the Commonwealth Government to make a grant to relieve unemploy­ment on a short-term basis. There­fore, 1 urge the Minister for Local Government to advise councils to seek projects which will provide more permanent employment. There are plenty of such projects. Tonight's Herald suggests that Bridge Road, Richmond, should be reconstructed. Many other roads could be treated in a similar manner. The municipali­ties have the technical ability and the equipment; all they need is the money.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 wish to raise a matter of Government administration concerning the Attorney-General's Department and pursuant to ques­tions which I asked in question time earlier today which were designed to elicit from the honorable gentleman a statement indicating his under­standing of the limitations on the ex­tent to which the Crown Solicitor's

Session 1972.-134

Office would involve itself in provid­ing a legal service to members of Par­liament in litigation which many citizens feel is essentially private. The matter 1 referred to this after­noon involved libel proceedings instituted at the behest of Mr. Robert Hawke against the Premier, Sir Henry Bolte. 1 am not in any way concerned to raise that issue; 1 simply point out that other cases have occurred in this House. I recall that, when I was a back-bench member, libel proceedings were in­itiated by a Government member against a member of another place. On these occasions, the parties in­volved retained private solicitors. 1 understand that recently a member of this House was the subject of libel proceedings instituted by a public servant. The honorable member sought certain advice, and it was made clear that there would be no representation of him by the Crown Solicitor's Office.

I am concerned to learn on what basis at an administrative level does the Attorney-General or his depart­ment say that if an honorable mem­ber libels a citizen that becomes a libel which involves the Government. Can it be, and do we presume-as we would be entitled to presume in this case, because obviously there is a question of briefing counsel and so on-that the State will bear the burden of costs for those cases in which the Attorney-General's Depart­ment decides to take over the carriage of the action? Furthermore, is it the department's view-it would cer­tainly be a novel one-that the alleged libel of a citizen by any Minister of the Crown automatically becomes an alleged libel by the Gov­ernment? Of course, that is the presumption which would seem to have been made in this case once the Attorney-General's Department be­came involved. If that is so, and if the citizen's action is successful, does the Government stand behind the Minister and say that it will pay the damages awarded?

3822 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment;

These are serious questions of administration. Without wanting to prejudice the rights of any of the parties, in this case there seems to have been a departure from this practice. If a new principle is to be adopted, I should like it to be clearly explained to all honorable members. If the Attorney-Generars Depart­ment or the Attorney-General takes the view that any action by or against a member of Parliament will involve the support of his department, that is an interesting development and I am certain that all honorable mem­bers would like to know the position. If that is not so, honorable members would like to learn the limitations on the Attorney-General's involvement and the effectual grounds for involve­ment of the Crown Solicitor's Office in the case I mentioned.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).­I wish to bring to the notice of the Minister of Education a matter which is causing serious concern. I refer to the allocation of certain teaching studentships. As honorable members are well aware, these students hips for both primary and secondary teaching are highly valued because they are much more generous than the Commonwealth scholarships in that they provide all the recipients with a living allowance.

Some time ago, studentships were allocated on the basis of a student's examination results, his health and the recommendation of an interview­ing body. The latter practice has been discontinued; the recommenda­tion now comes from the head master. I understand that if a head master casts even the slightest doubt on the applicant's suitability to become a teacher, then despite the excellence of his academic record, the applicant is not considered suitable for a teaching studentship.

This is happening today to young men and woman who have excellent academic qualifications and health and who are being refused student­ships on the basis of one person say­ing that they are not suitable. I feel sure that no honorable member can

be satisfied that this sort of proce­dure should be allowed to operate. I have no doubt that every honorable member has had experience of young persons being seriously hurtemo­tionally as a result of this sort of happening which can only be regarded as blackballing. The applicant is given no reason for his rejection. He knows that his academic record and health are good and he wonders what someone who says that he is not teacher material has against him.

I commend to the Minister that this procedure should be seriously ex­amined. No person in his right mind or with any sense of fairness could be satisfied with what is happening. One person has the power to make a decision which will affect another person for the rest of his life, without any right of appeal. In a case where a student is blackballed by a head master, some right of appeal should exist. Unless this is provided, some persons will receive less than justice in this State.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).­I wish to direct attention to a matter which concerns the administration of the Minister of Labour and Indus­try and which has been brought to my attention by the City of Sunshine. It relates to safety devices on earth­moving equipment. According to the principal of Sunshine East Primary School, Mr. Crawford, when school resumed after the vacation it was found that some damage had been done to the school grounds. On two occasions, heavy earth-moving equip­ment, which is being used by com­panies performing work nearby for the Commonwealth Military Forces establishment, had been started or set in motion by young children.

The problem, which is of concern to the City of Sunshine and all citizens in the community, is that it is possible to start a number of these vehicles by just pressing a button. I ask the Minister to investigate whether there are regulations cover­ing this type of vehicle. If there are not, I suggest that consideration

Adjournment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3823

should be given to the introduction of regulations providing that pre­ventive measures must be taken to ensure that machines left unattended are rendered inoperable. On these occasions machines were started and careered through property, including two school buildings. Much more damage could have been caused but for the fact that a person passing by knew how to stop the machines. I reiterate that, if there are not suit­able regulations, such regulations should be promulgated and that, if suitable regulations do exist, they should be enforced.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).­I raise for the attention of the Trea­surer a matter of urgent concern to the committee of the Corilong Centre for the Mentally Handicapped at Corio. It is the alleged failure of the Treasury to carry out an obligation in relation to the payment of the staff at that centre. In a letter to the centre, dated 29th December, 1969, the Premier and Treasurer stated-

The Government has reviewed the basis on which subsidies are paid to mentally retarded children in day training centres and has decided that, as from the beginning of this financial year-

that is the financial year 1969-70-

these subsidies will meet the full cost of teaching staff, including workshop teachers, who have been authorized by 'the Mental Health Authority and who are employed in each centre.

The centre presumed that, from that date, the cost of the teaching staff there would be fully met by the Treasury. How'ever, 'this week, in a letter to me, the Corilong Centre for the Mentally Handicapped stated-

At the time of the introduction of the scheme---lst July, 1969-the supervisor of the Corilong Centre, Mrs. S. Maclean, was being paid the award rates for her position and these have been updated at each award change since that time. Instead of reim­bursing the centre for the full salary paid the Mental Health Authority has only paid an amount equal to an untrained teacher award and at the 30th September, 1971 last the deficit was $4,574.64. Assuming that the Mental Health Authority is consistent for the December quarter this will leave a deficit of over $5,000 which this centre is unable to sustain.

I therefore ask that the Treasurer inquire into this matte~ and provide an explanation why the Corilong Centre has not been reimbursed for the full costs of the salary paid to the teacher. If there is no reason for this, perhaps the Treasury will reim­burse the centre for the full cost paid.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir).­The matter I raise is of concern to the Department of Labour and Industry. It is the training of apprentices in the trade of hair­dressing and the conditions under which girls are trained as apprentices to the trade. The Melbourne School of Hairdressing has about 1,400 students each year, but the facilities there are very much against adequate training. Business principles are taught in a class-room which is with­out power or electric light. The room is poorly lighted and is unlined. The girls sit at old-fashioned desks on a concrete floor. There is only a small board at the end of the room, yet the girls are expected to absorb a knowledge of business prin­ciples. The school is a complex of old factories and an old gaol and the conditions there can be imagined. Class-rooms are merely partitioned off. Conditions are such that the students must go to these class-rooms on a roster basis to use what equip­ment is available.

Bad as the training facilities are, the accommodation for girls brought from country areas under the block release system is even worse. These girls, who are expected to spend three weeks training at the school on two occasions a year, are accommodated by such organizations as the Travel­lers Aid Society. Students tell me that the showers are seldom hot and that they have nowhere to hang their clothes. The girls are expected to get up early in the morning. Their food is often cold. The toilets in the premises do not flush properly and are dirty. A department which has expressed some concern about ap­prenticeship should be able to do something better.

3824 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

When these girls have spent five days in these conditions, their em­plQyers expect them to' wQrk Qn Saturday mQrning to' make up what they consider to' be a nQrmal working week. As the wages of some girls apprenticed to' hairdressing are Qnly abQut $15 Qr $16 a week, they are suffering a type Qf bQndage. It mi~ht be said that they would put up WIth these cQnditions to obtain qualifica­tiQns, but when they dO' they gO' intO' an industry which is over-supplied with qualified people and which has a dual system Qf training. People can be trained fQr ladies' hairdressing thrQugh an academy system over a period of sixteen months, and they compete with girls who have under­taken an apprenticeship.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-The honorable member fQr ReservQir is making a set speech; he shQuld raise a matter Qf GQvern­ment administration.

Mr. SIMMONDS.-I am CQncerned that administrative action should be taken to ensure that adequate facili­ties are provided at the Melbourne School of Hairdressing and that adequate accQmmQdatiQn is prQvided for students attending that school Qn blQck release frQm cQuntry areas.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­The Leader of the Opposition has rais­ed the question of what principles ap­ply in deciding whether the CrQwn Solicitor should undertake the defence of legal proceedings brought against a member Qf Parliament. The honorable member brought to notice, both in questiQns to' day and in his remarks on this motion for the adjournment of the sitting, a particular instance ?f an action for defamation brQught III the Supreme CQurt against the Premier by one Mr. Robert Hawke. Each case has to be considered on the facts and circumstances which apply to' it. In respect of the action against t~e Premier, I indicated earlier today, In answer to a question, that I take the responsibility. To amplify that a l~ttle further, I point Qut that I went Into this matter carefully with officers of

my department. The Premier was loath that the Crown Solicitor should act fQr him.

I considered that, in the circum­stances, it was correct for the Crown Solicitor to act, and I was supported in that decisiQn by members Qf Cabi­net. These cases must be considered each in its particular circumstances. That is the broad way in which I answer what has been raised.

The Leader of the Opposition made detailed remarks to which I will give an answer, if necessary, in mQre detail, by letter. But, brQadly, each of these matters is decided on its merits whether the particular de­fendant is being brQught in in a pri­vate capacity or in a public capacity. In conclusion I point out that the solicitors' for Mr. Hawke did everything possible ~o ensure th~t the Premier was beIng brought In in his public capacity because they served the writ on him during a Cabinet m·eeting.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-A number of matters relating to education have been raised. The honQrable member fQr BrQadmeadQws raised a matter CQn­cerning the U pfield High School. It is true that some $7·6 milliQn has been made available by the Common­wealth Government since December for the school building programme. The first instalment Qf $5· 1 milliQn has been allocated in the manner which has already been announced. That leaves $2" 5 milliQn made avail­able at the Premiers Conference a fortnight ago. The aim .is . to' speed up expenditure Qn eXIstIng pro­grammes and then to advance the starting time of a number of new and important projects tQwards the end of the financial year. The work at Upfield High School comes within the first grQUp of works and I shall be pleased to see what can be done to speed up that project.

The honQrable member fQr MQQnee Ponds raised the matter of the futu~e Qf central schools and, no doubt, IS particularly concerned with the

Adjournment. [29 FEBRUARY, 1972.] Adjournment. 3825

Moonee Ponds Central School. The,., I noted the remarks of the honor­policy of the department is to retain able member for Greensborough about that school, and I shall be happy to the accommodation needs of the ~wo discuss with the honorable member high schools and about the technIcal ways and means of improving accom- school. I assure him that, if he is modation there. opposed to the provision of a specially

designed portable complex for a tech­nical school, I ha\fe three other takers right here.

The honorable member for Albert Park referred to the method of award­ing studentships, but did not quite accurately describe the previous sys­tem. The system which operated until last year was one under which stu­dentships were awarded on the basis of three criteria-academic results, a report of a principal, and a report of an interviewing committee. There was considerable dissatisfaction with the system of using an interviewing com­mittee as well as a report from a prinCipal. The principals' associa­tion, in a deputation, intimated to me that the interviewing commit­tee's activities were prolonged and costly, and frequently resulted in re­ports being made about students which, in the view of the principals, were inadequate and poor. The prin­cipals asserted that they had an op­portunity of seeing a boy or girl per­forming in school for 3, 4, or 5 years, and that they were in a better position to make a recommen­dation. Their recommendation was accepted for a trial and, for the past two years, studentships have been awarded on the basis of academic results and a principal's report.

In New South Wales, academic result is the sole criterion used. This is a bad system. However, there is something in the remarks made by the honorable member for Albert Park. I have already had discussions, earHer this year, with a view to mak­ing a further change next year to make possible some sort of appeal system, perhaps to representatives of the principals' association, so that if a boy has obtained particularly good academic results and has received an adverse report from the principal, he can take the matter further. In prin­ciple, this approach seems reasonable, and I will determine what changes can be introduced next year along these lines.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-Two matters raised concern­ed the Minister of Labour and In­dustry, who is unavoidably absent from the House. I will direct the remarks of the honorable member for Deer Park and the honorable member for Reservoir to the Minister.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposi­tion raised a question which concerns the Minister for Local Government, and I will direct the honorable mem­ber's remarks to the Minister. I have not seen the letter which the depart­ment wrote to the councils concerned. Some time ago, money was made available to relieve unemployment in the rural areas. Recently-only two weeks ago-money was made avail­able to alleviate unemployment in the metropolitan area. Always in the role of calamity howlers, members of the Opposition have not allowed to pass the fact that there is some unem­ployment.

Honorable members interjecting.

Mr. WILCOX.-I do not mind honorable members raising matters on the motion for the adjournment of the House. But Government mem­bers are entitled to the same courtesy as that accorded to members of the Opposition.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! Honorable mem­bers will 'appreciate the point made by the Minister of Transport who is answering.

Mr. WILCOX.-I am sure that honorable members will agree that if unemployment is to be relieved, there is need for work with a high labour content. That is where the emphasis has been. I cannot speak particular­ly for the municipalities but I can

3826 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

speak for the Victorian Railways. The railways have money available to employ 80 men until 30th June. As at yesterday 36 men out of the 80 have been employed. It is not easy to get men, but let us get what men are available.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I will bring to the attention of the Treasurer the matter raised by the honorable member for Geelong North in connection with the institution in his electorate.

The motion was agreed to.

T.he House adjourned at 5.19 p.m.

iltgislatiut 1\sstmbly Wednesday, March 1, 1972.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie) took the chair at 4.4 p.m., and read the prayer.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE.

The following answers to questions on notice were distributed:-

TRANSPORT REGULATION BOARD. NON-PAYMENT OF ROAD TAXES.

(Question No. 724)

Mr. WHITING (Mil dura) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. How many cases of failure to pay road taxes have been reported in each of the past five years?

2. How many prosecutions were launched as a result, how many convictions were recorded, and what sum was recovered by way of fines?

3. How many persons were gaoled for failure to pay fines in each year, respec­tively?

4. How many officers of the Transport Regulation Board are engaged in detecting cases of non-payment of the taxes and what is the approximate cost of collecting these unpaid fees?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer is-

The honorable member has been supplied with the information by letter.

VICTORIAN RAILWAYS. BALLARAT-GEELONG PASSENGER

SERVICE.

(Question No. 730)

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. What is the daily average number of passengers carried on the Ballarat to Gee­long rail service?

2. What type of train is used for this service?

3. Which electoral districts of the Legis­lative Assembly are served by this train?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer is-

The honorable member has been supplied with the information by letter.

HOUSING COMMISSION. HOMES IN SUNSHINE ELECTORATE:

RENTALS: PURCHASE.

(Question No. 736)

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. What rents are being charged for tenancy of Housing Commission properties in the electoral district of Sunshine?

2. How many commission houses within the district are-(ci) rented; and (b) being purchased?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The answers are-

1. Two-bedroom units $9.90 to $11.80 Three-bedroom units $10.40 to $12.30

A single pensioner on full pension pays $2.90 and a pensioner couple on full pen­sion pay $4.45.

2. (a) 1,150. (b) 452.

ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES: TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 744)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies, indicating for which trades, have been ad­vertised by the Concrete House Project,

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3827

Holmesglen and the Housing Commission, respectively, during each of the past three years?

2. How many applicants were interviewed for each of the vacancies so advertised?

3. How many tradesmen were employed in the Concrete House Project and the commission, respectively, during each of the past three years?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The answers are-

1. (a) Apprenticeships are not advertised by the Concrete House Project; recruitment is through personal recommendation by the Commonwealth Employment Bureau.

(b) The Housing Commission does not advertise for or employ apprentices.

2. See 1 (a) above. 3. Concrete House Project:

1969-300 1970-294 1971-272

Housing Commission, Victoria: 1969-68 1970-67 1971-65

MODERNIZATION OF UNITS

AT NORLANE.

(Question No. 781)

Mr. TREZISE (Gee long North) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. How many tenanted Housing Commis­sion units at Norlane have been modernized in each of the past five years?

2. How many of these units have been modemized in each of the past five months?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing).-The answers are-

1. 1967-68 203 1968-69 107 1969-70 210 1970-71 382 1971-72 202

2. October, 1971 57 November, 1971 24 December, 1971 49 January, 1972 16 February, 1972 16

PENSIONER FLATS IN GEELONG AREA: LAUNDRY FACILITIES.

(Question No. 782)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. How many groups of Housing Com­mission pensioner nats are 'in the Geelong area?

2. How many of th'ese blocks 'are equipped with modern laundry facilities,?

3. Which blocks have no modern laundry facilities and when they will be modemized?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing).-The answers are-

1. Nine.

2. Seven.

3. 103-105 Princes Highway, Norlane.

(Con1tract let 1972 for modernization of these units.)

Iona and Gaven streets, Norlane.

(CoI1ltract let 1972 for modernization of these units.)

PAINTING OF NORLANE ESTATE UNITS.

(Question No. 783)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. Whether the painting contracts for iI1lternal maintenance of rented Housing Commission units in the Norlane estate have been terminated; lif so, for what reasons and when such work will be re­sumed?

2. How many units in the Norlane estate require intern'al painting?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The answers are-

1. No. 2. Ninety-eight are currently listed for

internal painting.

MONEYS PROVIDED TO BOARD OF WORKS: REPAYMENT

(Question No. 798)

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. What moneys have been provided by the Hous'ing Commission to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works in each of the past five years and for what purposes they were used?

3828 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

2. What arrangements are made for the repayment of this money and from what Housing Commission -account it was paid?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing).-The answers are-

1. 1967-68-Nil. 196B-69-Nil. 1969-70-$928,918 1970-71-$995,329 1971-72-$476,758

Money used for the prOVISIon of water reticulation and sewerage to Housing Com­miss'ion estates.

2. Money repayable either-(a) When houses have been buHt on at

least 80 per cent of the lots sewered.

(b) After three years. (c) After fiVie years.

Money provided out of the General Fund of the commission.

UNITS IN GEELONG AREA OCCUPIED ON REBATED RENTS.

(Question No. 800)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Housing-

How many Housing Commission units in the Geelong area are occupied on "rebated rents" by-(a) unemployed persons; (b) deserted wives; (c) widows; and (d) 'aged and inV'aHd pensioners?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing).-The answer is-

Rebated rents in Geelong 'area: (a) Unemployed persons 20 (b) Deserted wives .. 98 (c) Widows 57 (d) Aged and invalid pensioners 295

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

UNSEWERED PREMISES IN SUNSHINE ELECTORATE.

(Question No. 738)

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. How many unsewered premises are situated in the electoral district of Sunshine, giving the location of these premises?

2. When it is expected that these premises will be sewered?

3. What public buildings are unsewered, giving their locations, and when it is expected that they will be sewered?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer supplied by the Minister for Local Government is-

The Melbourne and 'Metropolitan Board of Works has not carried out any new statistical analysis of the situation since the member's previous question on 9th March, 1971; however, there has been no sub­stantial change since that date.

FREEWAY F12.

(Question No. 814)

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. Whether any plans or proposed schemes exist for the connection of Freeway F12 (which will run 'through Park Street, West Brunswick) between Freeway FIg and the Tullamarine Freeway; if not, whether there is any proposal to construct any, and what freeway, in such street or in the vicinity thereof?

2. Whether a copy of any proposed plans will be forwarded to the honorable member for Brunswick West and the town clerk of the City of Brunswick?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The Minister for Local Government has supplied the follow­ing answers:-

1. A plan in the Metropolitan Transporta­tion Committee's report of December, 1969, shows the alignment of Freeway F12 to be in the vicinity of Park Street, Brunswick, between F2 and the Tullamarine Freeway.

In response to a request from the Govern­ment to re-examine the eastern leg of the city ring road, the Country Roads Board suggested, inter alia, a possible modification of the Metropolitan Trans­portation Committee inner-area network. This modification showed a freeway linking the junction of F2 and F19 to F12 in the vicinity of Royal Parade.

The Metropolitan Transportation Com­mittee has been instructed by the Govern­ment to investigate this and other suggested modifications of the Metropolitan Trans­portation Committee freeway network.

2. Yes, when the investigation has been completed and a decision made.

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3829

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. SCHOOLS IN SUNSHINE ELECTORATE:

PUPILS: TEACHERS: WORKS.

(Question No. 740) Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked

the Minister of Education-1. How many pupils and teachers, respec­

tively, are at the following State schools within the electoral district of Sunshine:­(a) primary schools-4931 Altona North; 4710 Brooklyn; 4825 Brooklyn West; 3988

1.

School

Kingsville; 3113 Sunshine; 4645 Sunshine East; 4818 Sunvale; 4707 Tottenham; 4703. Tottenham North; 4788 Wembley; and 2832: Yarraville West; (b) Footscray High Sch<?ol~ and (c) Sunshine and Tottenham techmcal schools?

2. What works the Education Depart­ment is undertaking at each of these schools in this financial year and what works are proposed in each case for 1972-73?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

Teachers Pupils

4931 Altona North .. 4710 Brooklyn 4825 Brooklyn West 3988 Kingsville 3113 Sunshine 4645 Sunshine East .. 4818 Sunvale 4707 Tottenham 4703 Tottenham North 4788 Wembley 2832 Yarraville West Footscray High School Sunshine Technical School

Prin + 26 Prin +13 Prin + 28 Prin + 21 Prin + 17 Prin + 16 Prin + 10 Prin + 6 Prin + 16 Prin + 17 Prin + 26

978 258 807 593 500 455 344 156 498 470 692 970

Tottenham Technical School

2. The only capital work to be undertaken in 1971-72 is the provision of staff and administration improvements at Footscray High School.

The main class-room block for Sunshine Technical School is in the early stages of architectural planning. This project that is estimated to cost nearly $2 million will take a considerable period of time for full documentation to be achieved.

It is intended to erect a music-gymnasium complex at Tottenham Technical School as rapidly as possible.

FOOTSCRA Y HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 742) Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked

the Minister of Education-1. Whether there are subject shortages

in history, English, woodwork, mathematics and special English, at the Footscray High School?

2. Whether there is a shortage of teachers at the school; if so, how many?

3. Whether there is a severe accommoda­tion shortage at the school?

4. What action, if any, is being taken to overcome shortages at the school?

46'5 90

37

972 + 429 apprentices 248 part-time and others.

510 + 34 apprentices 30 part-time and others.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. The principal has asked that additional teachers be supplied as follows:-

Migrant English 1 teacher Geography . 5 teachers Mathematics .. 1· 5 teachers Woodwork . 5 teachers

2. The Education Department considers that 45 teachers are needed at the school. In fact, there are 46·5 equivalent full-time teachers.

3. No. 4. Attention will be given first to schools

having fewer teachers than the Education Department's target and then teachers, if available, will be appointed to meet requests of schools.

ST. ARNAUD HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 762)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

When it is proposed to erect a Common­wealth-financed library at St. Arnaud High School?

3830 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

The present intention of the department is to meet the library needs of St. Arnaud High School by the provision of a building similar to the Commonwealth library being planned for Sea Lake High School.

At this stage, I am unable to state when construction of the Commonwealth library at St. Arnaud High School will commence.

MARYBOROUGH TECHNICAL SCHOOL.

(Question No. 763)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

1. When it is expected the renovations ,and repairs will be commenced at the Mary­borough Technical School to convert the old chemistry room to an art room?

2. What is the reason for the delay?

3. When a Commonwealth-financed libllary will be erected at the school?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. Documentation of this project is com­plete and the Public Works Department informs me that the work should be adver­tised for tender within 'a few days.

2. Pressure of. work within the Public Works Department.

3. The school is aware of the fact that this project could proceed only in the light of a city council agreement to the closure of Station Street and ,the extension of 'the school site to include Station Street.

The SChODI is alsD aware that the city council has .only recently agreed to the closure and that the department will now proceed to initiate as rapidly as possible the 'erection of a science-library block similar '1.0 the one erected at Oakleigh Technical School.

BOORT HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 767)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

l. When it is proposed to erect a manual arts wing at Boort High School?

2. What is the number of pupils 'attending the school?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1 No' 'indication can be given at this stage as 'to when tenders for these works will be called.

,2.229.'

CHARL TON HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 768)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

1. When it is proposed to erect a manual arts wing at Charlton High School?

2. What is the number of pupils 'attending the school?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. At this stage I am unable to indicate when these works will proceed.

2. 180.

WEDDERBURN HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 769)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

1. When it is proposed to erect a manual arts wing or any other additions at the Wedderburn High School?

2. What is the number of pupils attending th'e school?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. No indication can be given at this stage as to when tenders for these works will be called.

2. 193.

MARYBOROUGH HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 770) Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked

the Minister of Education-When it is proposed to erect a Common­

wealth-financed library at Maryborough High School?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

The department has almost completred the education brief for a Commonwealth library suited to the needs of secondary schools with enrolments similar to that at Maryborough. . The next stage .of detailed planning will follow with a view to inviting tenders for the Maryborough High School library at the earliest possible time.

I am unable to say when construction will commence.

TEACHER'S RESIDENCE FOR W ATCHEM.

(Question No. 772) Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked

the Minister of Education-1. 'When tenders will be let for the

construction of a new teacher's residenoe at Watchem?

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3831

2. What is the reason for the delay? Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of

Education) .-The answers are-1. Investigations into the possibility of

purchasing a suitable residence at Watchem have been unsuccessful. This case has now been included in the Teacher Housing Authority's building programme which, it is anticipated, will be implemented towards the end of this financial year.

2. Arrangements for the provision of a residence have proceeded in accordance with the established priority.

RESIDENCE FOR WEDDERBURN HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 773)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

When tenders will be let for the erection of a new residence for the Wedderburn High School?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

The authority was endeavouring to purchase a suitable residence which was sold privately before an offer could be made. The provision of a residence has now been included in a building program­me which, it is anticipated, will ~e implemented towards the end of thlS financial year.

RENOVATION OF REDBANK PRIMARY SCHOOL RESIDENCE.

(Question No. 775)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

1. When it is planned to commence reno­vations to the Redbank Primary School residence?

2. What is the reason for the delay in these urgent works?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. Urgent works are carried out automa­tically on advice to date; other maintenance works are being carried out on change of occupancy. For the remainder of residences, general maintenance works will be program­med to match the availability of funds.

2. The authority is not aware of any urgent works required to the residence. These will be carried out on request from the tenant.

PORTABLE CLASS-ROOMS.

(Question No. 785)

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park) asked the Minister of Education-

1. How many portable class-rooms were built in each of the years from 1965 to 1971 inclusive?

2. How many of these class-rooms are still in use--(a) as class-rooms; and (b) for any other purpose?

3. What was the total cost of these class­rooms and what was their cost "per square "?

4. What is the cost .. per square" of permanent school buildings for primary and secondary purposes?

5. Whether tenders have always been called for the construction of portable class­rooms?

6. What are the names of the successful tenderers since 1965?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

It will take some time to collate the re­quired information. The honorable member will be advised by letter as soon as possible.

EDEN HOPE HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 787)

Mr. E. W. LEWIS (Dundas) asked the Minister of Education-

Whether he is aware that enrolment at Edenhope High School rose from 320 in 1971 to 376 in this school year; if so, whether there are any plans for additional buildings at the school and, if not, why?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

I am aware of the increase in enrolments at Edenhope High School. The accom­modation needs will be met by the provision of one portable class-room and an addi­tional portable class-room will be supplied when one becomes available for transfer.

Apart from the upgrading of library facilities, no permanent additions are plan­ned but enrolment trends will be watched with a view to providing additional accom­modation if necessary.

GRANTS FOR SCHOOL LIBRARIES.

(Question No. 787)

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Minister of Education-

1. What is the basis of grants for school libraries?

2. Whether he will make representations for additional grants for school libraries?

Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. A special grant of up to $9,000 on a $2 for $1 basis is available 'towards the cost of erecting a library at a primary school. Because of rising costs the grant is reviewed from time to time in order to maintain the ratio between the grant and the contribution from local funds.

2. This matter is reviewed annually when the department is preparing its estimates of annual expenditure.

PRIMARY AND SECONDARY TEACHING STUDENTSHIPS.

(Question No. 812) Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park) asked the

Minister of Education-1. How many studentships for both pri­

mary and secondary Iteacher training were 'announced as being awarded in the Mel­boumepress 8.nd how many students were listed as successful?

3.

2. How many of these studentships were for-(a) primary, and (b) secondary or other teacher training?

3. How many students were assigned to each of the primary teacher training col­leges as at-( a) 1 Sit February, 1972; (b) 5th February, 1972; and (c) subsequent to those dates?

4. Whether the Education Department offered more studentships than it planned to accommodate in 1972;, if so-( a) whether the department has had to mak·e emergency accommodation for the overflow at certain teachers' colleges; and (b) on what day instructions were sent to Iteacher-training college principals that they would be re­ceiving extra students?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education).-The answers are-

1. There were 6,951 names on the press list; all were successful.

2. There were 2,946 primary awards and 4,005 secondary or other teachers' training awards.

I 28th February, 1972

- 1st February, 1972 5th February, 1972

Ballarat .. · . 260 Bendigo · . · . 226 Burwood · . .. 510 Coburg .. .. 466

Frankston .. · . 388 Geelong · . · . 289 Melbourne · . .. 306 Toorak .. .. 501

The figures as at 28th February, 1972, are not strictly accurate as there are some transfers in 'and out of colleges. due to re­consideration and/or change of mind on courses. They are, however, within the acceptable limits of plus or minus 2 per cent.

4. The department always allows for an estimated number of studentships to be declined. There has been no need for emer­gency accommodation to be arranged for any ov-erflow at any teachers' colleg'e.

It was necessary to redirect some students from Frank$ton 'f.eachers College because of an unexpectedly high acceptance of places' there. Students were redirected to Melbourne Teachers College and Burwood Teachers College on Friday, 11th February.

For various reasons, some successful appli­cants arrive at colleges after the main in­take is accepted. Every effort is made to finalize admissions by 1st March.

Offered Accepted

.. 282 210

.. 360 243 · . 541 422

as at 476 366 1st February,

1972 .. 342 317 .. 319 227 · . 359 275 · . 528 391

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE.

ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES: TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 747)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Treasurer-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies in each of ·the trade classifications were ad­vertised by the Government Printing Office during each of the past three years?

2. How many applications were received for each such position advertised?

3. How many tradesmen have been em­ployed by the office during each of the past three years?

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3833

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer).-The answers are-

1. No specific number of vacancies in any trade 'Classification was mentioned when advertising for applicants for apprenticeship in the Government Printing Office. How­ever, Ithe respective intakes were:

1969 1970 1971 ---------1--- ------Bookbinding . . 3 Hand composition 6 Letterpress printing 3 Lithographic printing .. Photo engraving camera op-

erating.. " .. Photo engraving etching .. Composing machine mechanic Turning and fitting . i

2. The total number received was-

1969 1970 1971

of

3 5 3 1

. i 1

2 5 2

. i

applications

38 31 47

3. The number of tradesmen employed at 30th June, was-

1969 1970 1971

233 242 227

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. TRADESMEN EMPLOYED: ApPRENTICE­

SHIP VACANCIES.

(Question No. 754)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Lands, for the Minis­ter of Agriculture-

1. How many tradesmen are currently em­ployed by the Department of Agriculture?

2. How many apprenticeship vacancies were advertised by the department over the past three years?

3. How many applications were received and how many appointments were made?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answers supplied by the Minister of Agriculture are-

1. Fifity.

2. Nil.

3. Nil.

STATE RIVERS AND WATER SUPPLY COMMISSION.

ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES: TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 755)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Water Supply-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies in each of the various trades were advertised by the State Rivers and Water Supply Com­mission during each of the past three years?

2. In which districts these positions were available?

3. How many applications were received for each of the positions so ·advertised 'in each of the past three years?

4. How many appointments were made in respect of each of the trades during each of the past three years?

Mr. DUNSTAN (Minister of Water Supply) .-The answers are-

1.

2.

3.

1969-2 apprenticeships in motor mechanics.

1970--1 apprenticeship in motor mechanics.

1971-1 apprenticeship in structural steel.

1972-4 apprenticeships in motor mechanics.

Swan Hill, 1 apprenticeship in motor mechanics.

Kerang, 1 appr'enticeship in motor mechanics.

Bendigo, 2 apprenticeships in motor mechanics and 1 in structural steel.

Frankston, 2 apprenticeships in motor mechanics.

Tatura, 1 'apprenticeship in motor mechanics.

1969-motor mechanics-Swan Hill, 1 position, 5 applications.

motor mechaniCS-Bendigo, 1 position, 29 applications.

1970--motor mechanics-Tatura, 1 position, 5 applications.

1971-structural steel-Bendigo, 1 position, 9 applications.

1972-motor mechanics-Frankston, 2 positions, 33 ·applications.

motor mechanics-Kerang, 1 position, 7 applications.

motor mechanics-Bendigc, 1 position, 29 applications.

4. Eleven appointments were made of which three were direct appointments with­out advertisement.

3834 ·Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

USE OF VVOOLSHED LAKE AS VVATER STORAGE.

(Question No. 766)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of VVater Supply-

Whether a decision has been reached re­garding Woolshed Lake being used as a State Rivers and Water Supply Commission water storage; if not, what stage investiga­tions have reached; if so, when the decision and findings will be released?

Mr. DUNSTAN (Minister of VVater Supply) .-The answer is-

A report has been prepared and is at present under consideration by the Water Commission. The Government expects to receive advice on the project within the next few weeks.

WATER SUPPLIES FOR NAVARRE AND REDBANK.

(Question No. 776)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of VVater Supply-

When it is expected that work will com­mence on the water supplies for Navarre and Redbank, respectively?

Mr. DUNSTAN (Minister of VVater Supply) .-The answer is-Water Supply to Navarre.

A number of proposals have been investi­gated for a water supply to the township of Navarre and the only viable scheme involves obtaining a supply from the existing Lands­borough Waterworks Trust. Agreement has been reached on the terms and conditions of providing a bulk supply of water from this authority and approval was recently sought from the Landsborough trust for it to administer the proposed supply as an urban district.

The scheme is financially practicable on this basis and following the trust's approval the urban district would be proclaimed and the proposals included for consideration in future loan works programmes.

Water Supply to Redbank.

Work has already commenced on a water supply for Redbank. An amount of $13,881 has been spent on improvements to an existing storage which will form the head­works ;to the township supply.

Tenders are currently being considered for the installation of reticulation mains and sufficient funds are available to undertake this work this financial year.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS AND COUNTRY

ROADS BOARD.

ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES: TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 758) Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked

the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies were advertised by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Bo,ard of Works and the Country Roads Board, respectively, during each of the past three years?

2. How many applications were received in respect of each such posi'tion?

3. How many tradesmen were employed by each authority during the past three years?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The Minister for Local Gov­ernment has supplied the following answers:-

1. No. of apprenticeship vacancies-Year M.M.B.W. C.RB. 1972 21 20 1971 24 19 1970 23 11

2. No. of applications received-Year M.M.B.W. C.RB. 1972 379 490 1971 352 306 1970 260 282

3. No. of tradesmen employed-Year M.M.B.W. C.RB. 1972 350 375 1971 330 360 1970 280 325

MINYIP AGRICULTURAL AND PASTORAL SOCIETY.

GRANT FOR ERECTION OF TOILET BLOCK.

(Question No. 771)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Lands, for the Minister of Agriculture-

When it is expected that a grant of $2,993 for the erection of a toilet block by the Minyip Agricultural and Pastoral Society will be paid?

Mr. BORmWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answer supplied by the Minister of Agriculture is-

Following the receipt from the Public '\lorks Department on 18th February, 1972. of ,a report and valuation of the work undArtaken. a claim form was sent to the secretary of the Minyip Agricultural and

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3835

Pastoral Society on 25th February, 1972. Action will be taken for payment of the grant when the signed claim form is received.

VICTORIAN COMBINED PENSIONERS ASSOCIATION.

FREE TRAVEL FOR DELEGATES TO ANNUAL CONFERENCES.

(Question No. 777)

Mr. TREZISE (Gee long North) asked the Minister of Transport-

Whether he will give consideration to providing free rail and tram transport to delegates of the Victorian Combined Pen­sioners Association branches who are elected to attend the 'annual conference of the association in Melbourne each year?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer is-

It is the current policy of the Government to grant free r~il travel ~nly to del~giates of the Victonan Combmed PenSioners Association who 'are travelling to the prin­cipal federal conferences of their organiza­tion.

EDUCATION. SCHOOL BOOK AND UNIFORM

ALLOWANCES.

(Question No. 779)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Education-

Whether the school book and uniform allowance for low-income families is avail­able to children attending private schools?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

The book and requisites allowed is avail­able to all eligible pupils in primary schools whether State or non-State.

The only allowances of this type available to post-primary pupils of non-State schools are the maintenance allowance ($104 per annum) for eligible holders of scholarships.

The book allowance of $20 for form VI. pupils is available to all pupils in form VI. whether attending State or non-State schools.

TEACHER HOUSING AUTHORITY. ESTABLISHMENT: FINANCE ALLO­

CATED AND SPENT: HOUSES BUILT.

(Question No. 788) Mr. E. W. LEWIS (Dundas) asked

the Minister of Education-1. When the Teacher Housing Authority

was established?

2. What finance has been allocated and what amount has been spent to date?

3. How many houses have been built and where they are located?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. 1st July, 1971. 2. The authority has been allocated

$680,000 for capital works and $456,000 for maintenance. It also obtains revenue from rents.

$294,600 has been spent on capital works and $202,000 on maintenance.

3. The authority has endeavoured to purchase wherever possible and has acquired nineteen residences to date. A building programme, to be implemented before 30th June, 1972, will be estab­lished for those other locations where a priority cannot be met through purchase.

UNIVERSITIES. QUOTA SYSTEMS.

(Question No. 799)

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Educa tion-

1. How many persons were excluded from pursuing a course of study at univer­sities in Melbourne this year because of quota systems?

2. How many student recipients of Com­monwealth scholarships were excluded from pursuing, as their first choice, a course in the faculties of medicine at Melbourne universities, why they were excluded, and what were the academic achievements of the first scholarship reCipient to be ex­cluded?

3. How many student recipients of Com­monwealth scholarships were excluded from pursuing courses of their first choice at university faculties or departments in Victoria, indicating from which faculties and departments they were excluded?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

We have requested the secretary of the Victorian Universities Admissions Com­mittee to provide the necessary information.

The honorable member will be advised by letter as soon as all details come to hand.

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE.

INCIDENT AT PENTRIDGE GAOL. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Can the Minister for Social Welfare inform the House Whether a demonstration occurred rec .. ently at Pentridge Gaol involving

3836 Questions [ASSEMBL Y.] without Notice.

more than 150 prisoners in the re­mand section? If so, will the Mini­ster make a full statement to the House concerning all aspects of this incident?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-Last Saturday afternoon at Pentridge a number of prisoners caused an incident, the de­tails of which are as follows: At approximately 3.30 p.m. the gov­ernor of the gaol was informed that two young prisoners in what is known as the boys' yard were charged with insolence and disobey­ing an order, and that in sympathy with them the rest of the prisoners in the boys' yard, consisting of just over 60 persons, refused to go back out of the yard into their cells at muster time, and demanded that the governor hold a special court there and then on the Saturday afternoon to hear the case. In sympathy with the prisoners in the boys' yard, the prisoners in the trial yard, consisting of about 86 adult prisoners, refused to go to their cells.

The governor ordered a special squad of approximately twenty prison officers, plus the prison officers in the remand yard, to back him up outside the two yards involved. The governor himself went into the end of the boys' yard to speak to the prisoners there. For eight to ten minutes he tried to reason with them and convince them that the action they were taking was' not in their best interests, that they had received more than a "fair go " in the hearing of their grievances and in putting forward their ideas in recent times, and that they should return to their cells. The prisoners did not return to their cells, so the governor ordered the prison officers to enter the yard and remove the prisoners by force, if necessary. No force was needed in that yard. The prisoners went back to their cells without any display at all.

The 86 adult prisoners in the trial yard refused to go back to their cells, and the same procedure took place. The governor went in and

talked to them for some time and tried to reason with them. After it was obvious that the prisoners were going to continue to sit or lie down on the floor of the yard, he ordered the prison officers in to re­move them bodily. Initially, there was no suggestion of any violence and the governor deliberately stood in the front line to make sure no un­necessary force was used. A number of prisoners were bodily lifted from the ground and put back in their cells. Then fighting which was insti­gated by some of the prisoners broke out. It was necessary for some of the prison officers to defend them­selves by a minor baton attack. In no way was it a major incident as may have been reported in the press today and no one sustained injury other than minor bruising.

Those are the facts as related to me by the governor. I do not re­gard it as a serious incident. Rather, I regard it as an almost inevitable in­cident resulting from the thwarting of what earlier last month was ob­viously a highly-planned and well­thought-out strategy to hold a mass riot and demonstration throughout the prison. I believe there is a dissi­dent element in the prison who, because they have been thwarted in their plan, will continue to cause these minor disturbances until they finally get the message that order will be preserved and maintained at all times.

Any action I have taken in bolster­ing security has been with one aim in mind, that the public interest shall be protected at all times. In no way do I see any risk to public interest or to the officers in the prison.

RENOLD AUSTRALIA PTY. LTD. Mr. TREWIN (Benalla).-Is the

Premier aware of the difficult posi­tion which faces Renold Australia Pty. Ltd., roller chain manu­facturers, of Benalla? If so, in what circumstances could the Premier give them certain assistance, or could he assist them in the present circumstances?

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] without Notice. 3837

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 appreciate the honor­able member raising this question. I assure him that the Government shares his concern for Renold Aus­tralia Pty. Ltd. of Benalla. The position as conveyed to me by the principals is that the firm came from England and in 1948 decided to go to a country area; in 1951 it estab­lished itself at Benalla. At that time it was invited by the Australian Gov~rnment, and particularly by agricultural implement manufac­turers, to produce a given range of chains that were necessary for agri­cultural implements.

Over the years the number of employees was built up to some 220 at Ben-alIa at the height of produc­tion, but because of the lack of volume production, by having to produce a series of different sizes, it has been impossible for the firm, with or without tariff protection, to hold the market. 1 am informed, for example, that certain chain can be imported at, say, about 80 cents a foot, whereas with the best of good­will and not because of any fault of Australian labour or Australian wages, but simply because of the lack of volume production, it would cost this firm about $1.50 a foot to produce.

1 view this situation seriously because from an analysis of the situa­tion it appears that 350 employees, whether of Renolds or of any other manufacturer, could supply all of Australia's chain requirements. As I said earlier, at the peak of pro­duction 220 persons were employed at Benalla and were producing from 75 to 80 per cent of Australia's needs. Today, with about 140 employees, it is supplying only about 30 per cent of requirements. It is obvious to me that an alteration of the tariff would not be the answer. I have written to the Commonwealth Minister con­cerned, Mr. Anthony, and have pointed out that as this is an industry peculiar to a country town in Vic­toria, which not only has done a very good job there but also is an

inspira tion to other industries to decentralize, it would be a tragedy if it collapsed.

The only answer is for the Com­monwealth Government to re-think and re-examine this problem and to license the importation of, say, 25 per cent of the market for chains in the particular dimensions which are embarrassing this firm and allow Renold to manufacture the other 75 per cent. If that were done, I be­lieve this firm could employ some 250 employees at Benalla. 1 am sure that the protected price on, say, a harvester would be incontestable and could be fully justified. As 1 say, I have written to the Common­wealth Minister concerned and the Government is watching the position closely.

DISTURBANCES AT PRISONS. Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East).

-I direct a question to the Minister for Social Welfare. Have disturb­ances occurred in Victorian country gaols recently, including gaols at Geelong and Sale? If so, what was the nature of the disturbances, and why has the Minister suppressed in­formation concerning those disturb­ances?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-Judging from the press, 1 should have thought that the honorable member would draw the conclusion that I was not suppressing information. In fact, the media have had a field day. At no stage have 1 had suppressed any information on prison conditions, and earlier today 1 extended to honorable members the courtesy of informing them at first hand of the incidents that occurred last Saturday. Surely the honorable mem­ber for Brunswick East is not naive enough to believe that the prison system is full of "goody-goodies". It is the bottom end of society that is in the prison system and wherever there is this situation there will be disturbances from time to time. It is quite inevitable. In our op~n prisons there tend to be fewer dIS­turbances simply because people who

3838 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

are low escape risks are placed on their honour in this system. Since I have been the Minister for Social Welfare during the past eighteen months there have been minor incidents in all prisons.

INCIDENT AT PENTRIDGE GAOL. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Can the Minister for Social Welfare inform the House what he means by a minor baton charge, how many warders were involved in such a charge, what sort of weapons they used, what sort of injuries were inflicted on warders and prisoners, and how many pri­soners have been charged over this incident?

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie ).-They are a very detailed number of questions.

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-1 have already answered some of these questions. Earlier 1 said that 30 prison officers were involved in the incidents and and that they were, equipped with batons. The' charge, as you have' described it--

The SPEAKER.-The Minister should address the Chair.

Mr. I. W. SMITH.-The minor charge resulted from the entry of the prison officers into the trial yard to remove the prisoners from the yard and take them back to their cells. A number of them were bodily lifted without violence and put back in their cells. When prisoners began punch­ing and kicking the prison officers, those officers, quite within their rights, had to use such force as was necessary to prevent the prisoners from becoming more violent, and this was done. Injuries sustained were very minor. One prison officer sustain­ed a badly bruised hand and another officer was hit heavily on the head by a prisoner. On the prisoner's side, only one prisoner received a bruised wrist.

This incident has been irrespon­sibly blown up out of proportion by one of the newspapers in this city,

which over the past two months has been making a habit of obtaining information from inaccurate sources and plastering it all over its front pages. Then I am expected to answer any sort of reporting this newspaper likes to make. What I have told you, about, Mr. Speaker, is what I believe to have been a very minor situation; however, it has been over-played by the media. If the Leader of the Oppo­sition wants any further details, such as the names of the prison officers, I suggest that he place a question on the Notiee Paper.

PRISONER IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 direct a further question to the Minister for Social Welfare: Is it irresponsible reporting by a major daily newspaper when it has indicated that in Pentridge Gaol there is a prisoner named Laurence Joseph Prendergast--

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! I must rule that out of order. It is asking for an opinion, and the question should not be read.

Mr. HOLDING.-I wish to refer to a particular name, Mr. Speaker. Is it a fact that a prisoner by the name of Laurence Joseph Prendergast is still in solitary confinement one week after a decision by a County Court judge who stated that such confine­ment was illegal? Has this matter been brought to the attention of the Minister; if so, has the honorable gentleman taken any action?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-There is a prisoner named Prendergast in H Division, which is not solitary confinement. The prisoner will remain there until the current legal battle about his presence there is concluded.

HORSE-RACING ON SUNDAYS. Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of

the Country Party) .-1 ask the Chief Secretary whether the Government shares the views of the honorable member for Glen Iris, reported today,

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] without Notice. 3839

that Sunday racing should be intro­duced into Victoria. If so, has it any date in mind for this to begin?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I have not seen the reported views of the honorable member for Glen Iris on this subject. The matter has not been considered by the Government and it is not imminent.

ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION ACT. Mr. MUTTON (Coburg).-I direct

a question to the Minister represent­ing the Minister for State Develop­ment. What date has been set by the Government for the commencement of operation of the Environment Protection Act?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­Normally, the Minister for Fuel and Power answers for the Minister for State Development in this House. In the absence of the Minister for Fuel and Power, I suggest that the honor­able member for Coburg place his question on the Notice Paper.

FAMILY WELFARE EMERGENCY GRANT.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).­J ask the Minister for Social Welfare why he issued a dire'ction to all members of his staff to discontinue the $20 emergency grant made by the Family Welfare Division to des­titute families during the State Electricity Commission strike, which precluded unemployed destitute families from receiving the $20 allowance. How did the Minister expect those people to provide for themselves during that period?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-1 ask that the question be placed on the Notice Paper.

REHABILITATION OF PRISONERS. Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).­

In view of the fact that the Minister for Social Welfare has stated that the majority of the inhabitants of Pentridge Gaol are from the lowest strata of society, and in view of the further fact that most of these people

will be back in society in less than six months, can the Minister assure the House that the conditions in the remand yard and in the area which he spoke about are in any way conducive to rehabilitating people so that they can in future take some effective part in the life of the community?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-1 am not satisfied with the conditions in the prison system. They present me with an incredible challenge. The turnover in the prison system in one year amounts to almost 13,000 men, who readily fall into three categories. A third of them, no matter what is done for them, will not improve in their social habits. Another third at the other end of the scale are offenders only once and will make their own efforts, regardless of help, to improve themselves within society. The middle bracket of approximately one third is receiving a lot of attention in our planning because I believe there is scope for greater emphasis on the rehabilitation of prisoners within this bracket with a view to reducing recidivism; in other words, so that fewer of them will come back into the prison system. Certainly, this is foremost in the thoughts of my department.

The prison system has changed a lot in the past ten to fifteen years, particularly in two new areas at Won Wron and Ararat which, probably, the honorable member for Albert Park has never heard of. This is the sort of progress which is being made but, unfortunately, in our society, in this area where there are young people who have never accepted authority from anyone, the rising crime rate is more than keeping pace with the development of prisons. This is a big problem but it is receiving close attention.

FOURTH UNIVERSITY. Mr. STEPHEN (Ballaarat South).­

Can the Minister of Education inform the House when it is expected that the report on the fourth univer­sity will be made available?

3840 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The report of the com­mittee appointed to inquire into the establishment of a fourth university was presented to me last Thursday. It is currently being considered by members of Cabinet. It has been decided that the report will be re­leased to the public, and the date of its release will be determined at next Monday's Cabinet meeting.

LAKE MUNDI PRIMARY SCHOOL. Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland).­

I ask the Minister of Education whether, since the Lake Mundi Primary School was closed, a septic tank has been installed and never used, and the school sold to private interests.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-This is one problem that I have not heard about, but I will be happy to investigate it.

LABORATORY ASSISTANTS FOR HIGH SCHOOLS.

Mr. LIND (Dandenong).-I ask the Minister of Education whether prin­cipals of high schools are having difficulty in obtaining laboratory assistants and whether the trouble is caused by things not running smoothly between two departments.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-No, 1 would not say that that was the reason. The appoint­ments of ancillary staff is currently under consideration by the Govern­ment. There had been suggestions that the method of appointment could be changed and that either the Education Department or the Teach­ers Tribunal could make the appoint­ments. On the credit side, on an average, each high school will re­ceive at least one additional teacher above the staffing schedule of last year.

DIRECTOR OF' PRISONS. Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East).

-1 ask the Minister for Social Wel­fare whether a senior officer of the Youth Welfare Division was a few weeks ago appointed Acting Director

of Prisons for the duration of the leave being enjoyed by the present director, Mr. Shade. Why was it necessary to appoint a person from outside the Prisons Division to this post and were there no officers in the division competent to carry out the duties of Acting Director?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare).-The Director of Prisons is entitled to his leave, which he wished to take and did. The most suitable person for his tempo­rary replacement was an officer named Mr. Bodna, from the Youth Welfare Division, who was appointed as Acting Director.

Mr. BORNSTEIN.-Why?

Mr. I. W. SMITH.-Because he was the most suitable.

PRISONERS AWAITING TRIAL. Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Has the Minister for Social Welfare made representations to the Attorney­General to speed up the trials of those persons who are in the remand section of Pentridge awaiting trial; if so, with what results?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-1 know that the Attorney-General has the matter under consideration because we have discussed it from time to time since I became Minister for Social Welfare. It is a worry to that honorable gentle­man, but a matter for him.

FOURTH UNIVERSITY. Mr. E. W. LEWIS (Dundas).-Can

the Minister of Education inform the House whether the committee appointed to investigate the estab­lishment of a fourth university has completed its report; if so, will the report be made available to honor­able members?

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie ).-The last part of the ques­tion is new.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer to the second part is, cc Yes ".

Questions [1 MARCH, 1972.] without Notice. 3841

ATTIRE OF MEMBERS. Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray).­

I direct a question to you, Mr. Speaker. In view of the heat and the unsatisfactory ventilation in this Chamber, as chairman of the Stand­ing Orders Committee will you, Sir, convene a meeting of that committee to arrange for appropriate Standing Orders to be formulated to permit honorable members to be more ap­propriately attired in the House on days as hot as this?

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I will take note of the question.

COMMONWEALTH-STATE FINANCES.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).­Can the Premier and Treasurer indi­cate whether the Government or the Treasury will be making submissions to the newly-formed Commonwealth research centre to inquire into Com­monwealth-State financial relations? The formation of the centre was an­nounced at the time of the last Prem­iers Conference.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer).-This research centre is being established with the blessing of all the States. The Commonwealth is establishing the centre for the States and the States will supply the centre with the necessary informa­tion. The suggestion was made by the States and the Commonwealth is carrying it out; it has our good wishes and the States will be assisting it. Victoria will not get any money from the centre which will be purely advisory.

AIR-CONDITIONING OF CHAMBER.

Sir EDGAR TANNER (Caulfield).­I direct a question to you, Mr. Speaker. When you give considera­tion to ventilation in this Chamber, as requested by the honorable mem­ber for Footscray, will you also give consideration to the installation of

air-conditioning so that honorable members can continue to act and dress as gentlemen?

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I suggest the Chairman of Committees have a talk to me after the House has risen.

PRICES TRIBUNAL. Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).­

As the Treasurer has often publicly expressed concern at the cost of wage increases to the State, is he equally concerned about the con­tinued increase in prices and, if so, will he consider the formation of a prices justification board to at least vet basic commodities or, alterna­tively, will he make this recommenda­tion to his Federal colleague? If the Treasurer does not agree, will he give the reasons why?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer).-In the first place the question is out of order and the honorable member--

Mr. HOLDING.-If it is out of order, do not answer it.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-It is sug­gested that I have always growled or complained about wage increases and this is not true. As the preface to the honorable member's question is untrue there is no need for me to answer the remainder of the ques­tion.

FAMILY WELFARE EMIERGENCY GRANT.

Mr. FELL (Greensboro ugh) .­Will the Minister for Social Welfare investigate through his department why it discontinued payment of the $20 emergency allowance to those families whose need was greatest and for what period it was dis­continued? Will he also direct that those payments are to be resumed?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-The emergency allowances to families in need have not been discontinued, except to those who were on strike. This is in

3842 Trustee Companies (Sandhurst [ASSEMBLY.] and Northern District

line with the statement made by the Premier and it has been carried out by my department. Those families whose breadwinner was stood down were certainly eligible for and re­ceived the allowances where a good case was made out.

INCREASE IN PRICES. Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).­

Is the Premier concerned at the in­crease in prices--

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! That is not a good opening to a question without notice. It is a matter of Government policy.

EDUCATION NEEDS SURVEY. Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).­

Does the Minister of Education in­tend to make available to honorable members the material which outlined the needs of Victoria for education and which he supplied some twelve months ago to a meeting of Educa­tion Ministers and, if he does intend to do that, when will this material become available?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-Yes. A further con­ference took place last week in Mel­bourne between all officers concerned with this survey and there was dis­cussion on some of the material con­cerned which was used by the States. As soon as some of the suggestions made by those officers have been acted upon, the material will be printed and made available.

RICHMOND HOUSING RECLAMATION PLANS.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition).-Will the Minister of Housing lay upon the table of the Library such records, maps and other information covering the pro­posed Housing Commission reclama­tion in the Church Street area of Richmond?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-1. was under the impres­sion that this question had been asked on notice. There is a question to this effect on notice which is being

answered in the normal manner. If it is the same question, does the hon­orable member prefer that it be answered now?

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-If the question is on notice, it is out of order.

Mr. MEAGHER.-I think the ques­tions are the same.

The SPEAKER.-The question on notice is much different and very much wider. I suggest that the Minister might answer this question if he wishes to.

Mr. MEAGHER.-I am happy to do that, Mr. Speaker. I did not want to confuse the House by having two answers to the same question. As I understand the situation, the honor­able member wishes me to have laid on the table of the Library all the papers dealing with slum reclama­tion in Richmond.

Mr. HOLDING.-I wish to see the file which deals with Church Street.

Mr. MEAGHER.-I am not certain how many papers are involved or how large the file is, and for that reason I hesitate to say that I will lay all of the papers on the table. I shall be happy to discuss the matter with the Leader of the Opposition to ascertain what information he re­quires. I will then make the infor­mation available to him.

TRUSTEE COMPANIES (SANDHURST AND NORTHERN

DISTRICT TRUSTEES EXECUTORS AND AGENCY COMPANY

LIMITED) BILL. Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­

I move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

I ts purpose is to amend the Trustee Companies Act 1958 to authorize the Sandhurst and Northern District Trustees Executors and Agency Co. Ltd. to alter its share capital. The Bill adopts the principles of the Trus­tee Companies (Equity Trustees) Act 1971. .

Trustees Executors and Agency [1 MARCH, 1972.] Company Limited) Bill. 3843

The Sandhurst and Northern Dis­trict Trustees Executors and Agency Co. Ltd. was incorporated in Victoria in 1888. It carries on business as a trustee company substantially in the Bendigo area, with which most of its shareholders are connected. The capital and shares of the company are subject to the restrictions contained in the Trustee Companies Act 1958, the special provisions relating to the Sandhurst and Northern District Trustees being contained in item 7 of the Second Schedule to the Act.

One of the common provisions to be found in the Second Schedule to the Act is a requirement that a trus­tee company shall leave uncalled a proportion of its share capital which can be called up in the event of a liquidation. Such a provision appears in item 7. This uncalled capital is a type of guarantee fund to protect beneficiaries who might be entitled to sue the company for breach of trust.

However, the company's paid capital of $60,000 is not a true re­flection of its financial position, and although it would be appropriate to capitalize part of the company's reserves, the normal method of capitalizing reserves by the issue of bonus shares cannot be used, because the company is required to have an uncalled liability in respect of each share. The total of such liability re­quired by the Act is $30,000 but, in fact, the amount of uncalled capital is $60,000. Although the company is relatively small in the trustee com­pany field, its reserves are more than double its paid capital, and the com­pany has suggested that its statutory liability be fixed at $60,000 as this accords with the actual position.

The Bill therefore proposes to fix the uncalled share capital at $60,000 and to insert provisions which will permit other shares to be issued as fully paid shares. This will have the effect of converting some of the reserves to capital which cannot in any circumstances be distributed, and improving the financial protection of the company and the protection given

to shareholders. At present the reserves could be distributed by way of dividend to shareholders.

Clause 1 contains the usual short title and citation provisions. Clause 2 proposes the SUbstitution of a new item 7 in the Second Schedule to the principal Act. The changes made in the existing provisions are as follows:-

(a) The restriction on the share­holding of individual members has been changed from 1,000 shares to a one-fortieth part of the nominal amount of the issued capital. At present this is equivalent to 1,500 shares of $2, and the amended pro­vision will enable a proportionate increase in individual shareholding as issued capital is increased.

(b) In lieu of the present require­ment that no more than $1 a share shall be called up except in the event of winding up, a minimum uncalled capital or reserve liability of $60,000 is fixed. This is consistent with the principles of the provision made in respect of the Equity Trustees Execu­tors and Agency Co. Ltd.

(c) The provision as to liability, in the event of winding up, of per­sons who have been directors within the preceding two years is unchanged, save that in lieu of the liability being expressed as $1 for every share held and transferred during such period of two years it is now expressed as the uncalled capital and reserve liability on every such share.

(d) The provision requiring that the capital of the company shall remain divided into shares of $2 and that the number of shares shall not be reduced below 50,000 is replaced by the provision enabling the com­pany, subject to section 24 of the principal Act, to alter its share capital in accordance with the Com­panies Act other than by reducing its share capital. Section 24 gives to the Supreme Court power to restrain a voluntary winding up of a trustee company or disposal of shares in a trustee company.

3844 Victoria Institute of Colleges [ASSEMBLY.] (Affiliated Colleges) Bill.

I emphasize that the Bill authorizes the company to alter its share capital in the same way as other companies are permitted to do so by the Com­panies Act, except that in no circum­stances can the company reduce its share capital. Furthermore, the existing protection for beneficiaries by means of uncalled capital is not only preserved but increased from $30,000 to $60,000. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, March 8.

VICTORIA INSTITUTE OF COLLEGES (AFFILIATED

COLLEGES) BILL. Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of

Education) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this measure is to validate a desirable existing practice in the supervision of public expendi­ture. The measure has a two-fold specific purpose. Firstly, under the proposed provisions of clause 2 it will be necessary for the council of a college affiliated with the Victoria Institute of Colleges each year to have its accounts balanced within three months after 31st Decem­ber. Secondly, sub-section (3) of proposed section 29AA, as con­tained in clause 2, provides that the council or governing b'6dy of an affiliated college may appoint an auditor unless the Auditor-General otherwise determines. Sub-section (4) goes further and provides that notwithstanding the fact that a person has been appointed by the council or governing body of an affiliated college to carry out the annual audit of its accounts, the Auditor-General may also have power to audit the accounts and shall have all the powers conferred on him by any law relating to the auditing of public accounts.

This measure becomes necessary because of an opinion given by the Crown Solicitor. It was always understood that the Auditor-General was vested with adequate powers to carry out the auditing of the accounts of the senior technical institutions. For example, under sub-section (1) of section 29 of the Education Act 1958 the Auditor-General had power to audit the accounts of places such as the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, the Swinburne Technical College and the Ballarat School of Mines, to use their former names which have since been changed as a result of their upgrading and affiliation with the Victoria Institute of Colleges. Different provisions related to the auditing of accounts of the other senior technical institutions and it was considered that the provisions of clause 10 of regulation 37 made under the Education Act covered the right of the Auditor-General to audit the accounts of other State technical colleges.

Recently, the Auditor-General sought the opinion of the Crown Solicitor on his legal position when the question was raised of the autho­rity of the Auditor-General in the auditing of the books of accounts of these recently upgraded technical colleges. A thorough survey of existing statute law was carried out by the Crown Solicitor, who came to the conclusion that it would be wise to pass amending legislation. It was suggested that the wide powers of section 31 of the Audit Act could be invoked to give the Auditor-General the necessary powers. These are powers which are given to the Auditor-General to audit the accounts of public bodies. However, it was considered that these powers, too, were inadequate. In the light of the Crown Solicitor's opinion, the Gov­ernment had no alternative but to introduce amending legislation. It took this step mainly because large sums of public money are now being spent by these colleges of advanced education.

In the past triennium about $40 million of Commonwealth and State

Business of [1 MARCH, 1972.] The House. 3845

moneys has been spent by these colleges. This amount has increased to $80 million in the current triennium and the indications are that an even larger sum will be spent in the next triennium. Therefore, to remove any existing doubts resulting from the opinion of the Crown Solicitor on the powers of the Auditor-General to audit the accounts of these public education bodies, I have pleasure in commending the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, March 8.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. ORDER OF BUSINESS.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary) (By leave) .-As is indicated on the Notice Paper, it is the intention of the Treasurer to introduce the Supply Bill. I am assured that the necessary message from the Governor is on its way, but it has not yet reached the House. Consequently, I have no option but to suggest, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that you may see fit to leave the chair for ten minutes until the message arrives.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) (By leave) .-The Oppo­sition has extended what I regard as the normal courtesy to the Premier in the situation in which he finds himself, but the reality of the Chief Secretary's suggestion stems not simply from the fact that the message from the Governor has not arrived but from the fact that the Govern­ment has run out of business. Because a message from the Gover­nor has not arrived it is suggested tha t there is nothing further for the House to deal with.

I appreciate the Government's dilemma. The legislative programme has so many gaps in it that on the second day of sitting it is suggested that the House should adjourn for ten

minutes to await a message from the Governor. The Opposition cannot accede to that request in spite of the normal courtesy which it has ex­tended to the Premier in these matters. There are a number of items of General Business on the Notice Paper which could be debated. I refer to the Parliamentary Commis­sioner (Ombudsman) Bill, The Con­stitution Act Amendment (Reduction of Voting Age) Bill and the Family Courts Bill standing in the name of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. There is also the Race Relations Bill and the Ministerial statement on meat shop trading hours and condi­tions. These items are of consider­able importance to the people of Victoria and have been on the Notice Paper for some time. If a proper course of conduct is to be pursued and this Parliament is not to make itself a laughing stock, the House should now proceed to deal with any of those items.

On the second day of a Parlia­mentary sitting, you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, are being asked to leave the chair because the Government cannot proceed with its legislative programme. This should occur only with the approval of both sides of the House. For these reasons the Opposition is strongly against your abandoning the chair. Members of the Opposition believe you should stay in the chair and the Chief Secretary should call on anyone of the items of General Business. The House can then proceed to conduct some business while awaiting the message from the Governor.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) (By leave) .-In view of the fact that the Chief Secretary has shown some reluctance to proceed with any items under " General Business", the proper action for the Government to take is to adjourn the House and not merely to seek an adjournment for ten minutes. The Government asserted that it wished the House to meet at 2.30 p.m. yesterday and

3846 Estimates. [ASSEMBLY.] Estimates.

ESTIMATES. today, but it quickly abandoned that idea and the House met today at 4 p.m.

Mr. Ross-EDWARDs.-The message will be here any minute.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor trans­mitting Estimates of Expenditure for the months of July, August and September, in the year 1972-73, and recommending an appropriation from the Consolidated Fund accordingly.

Mr. WILKES.-It will not. The Government failed miserably in its good intentions after the first day of sitting. If it does not intend to debate private members' Bills, the only honorable step for the Government to take is to adjourn the House.

VOTES ON ACCOUNT.

IMr. HAMER (Chief Secretary) (By leave) .-The Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition have now talked themselves out. 1 withdraw my sug­gestion, because I understand that a message has arrived.

The House went into Committee of Supply.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 move--

That a sum not exceeding $194·675 million be granted to Her Majesty on account for or towards defraying the fol­lowing services for the year 1972-73:-

Division No.

PARLIAMENT

100. Legislative Council-Expenses of Select Committees 101. Legislative Assembly-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 102. Legislative Council and Legislative Assembly House Committee-Salaries,

General Expenses, and Other Services 103. Parliamentary Printing-Printing of Hansard, &c. 106. Parliament Library-Salaries and General Expenses 109. Parliamentary Debates-Salaries and General Expenses

PREMIER

120. Governor's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 121. Premier's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 127. State Film Centre-Salaries and General Expenses 130. Soil Conservation Authority-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 133. Agent-General-Salaries and General Expenses .. 136. Public Service Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 139. Public Service Board Electronic Data Processing Service Bureau-Salaries and

General Expenses 142. Audit Office-Salaries and General Expenses

CHIEF SECRETARY

160. Chief Secretary's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 166. Totalizator Administration-Salaries and General Expenses 169. State Accident Insurance Office-Salaries 172. State Motor Car Insurance Office-Salaries 175. Workers Compensation Board-Salaries 178. Fisheries and Wildlife-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 181. Government Shorthand Writer-Salaries and General Expenses .. 184. Government Statist-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 187. Police-Salaries and General Expenses .. 190. Police Service Board-Salaries and General Expenses 193. State Library, National Museum and Science Museum Administration-Salaries

and General Expenses 196. State Library-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 199. National Museum-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 202. Science Museum-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 205. National Gallery-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

Sum required for three

months ending 30th September.

1972

$

1,000 67,000

58,000 69,000 18,000 38,000

50,000 183,000 47,000

255,000 40,000

207,000

118,000 199,000

131,000 17,000

211,000 244,000 25,000

428,000 18,000

173,000 10,425,000

3,000

94,000 296,000 57,000 35,000

244,000

Division No.

Votes on

SoCIAL WELFARE

[1 MARCH, 1972.] Account.

240. Social Welfare Administration and Research and Statistics-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

246. Family Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 249. Youth Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 252. Prisons-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 255. Training-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 258. Probation and Parole-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

LABOUR AND INDUSTRY 280. Labour and Industry-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

EDUCATION 300. Education-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 320. Teachers Tribunal-Salaries and General Expenses

ATTORNEy-GENERAL 350. Attorney-General-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 356. Courts Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 359. Registrar-General and Registrar of Titles-Salaries and General Expenses .. 362. Registrar of Companies-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 365. Rent Control-Salaries and General Expenses .. 368. Public Trustee-Salaries and General Expenses ..

TREASURER 400. Treasury-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 403. Advance to Treasurer 406. Pay-roll Tax 412. Tender Board-Salaries and General Expenses .. 415. State Superannuation Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 418. Registry of Co-operative Housing Societies and Co-operative Societies and

Home Finance Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services ..

421. Taxation Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 424. Stamp Duties-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 427. Government Printer-Salaries and General Expenses

LANDS 450. Crown Lands Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 456. Survey-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 459. Botanic and Domain Gardens and National Herbarium-Salaries and General

Expenses

PUBLIC WORKS 480. Public Works-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 490. Ports and Harbors-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

LOCAL GOVERNMENT 510. Local Government-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 516. Valuer-General-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 519. Weights and Measures-Salaries and General Expenses .. 522. Town and Country Planning Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other

Services ..

MINES 540. Mines-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 546. Explosives-Salaries and General Expenses 549. Gas Regulation-Salaries

AGRICULTURE 570. Agriculture Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 576. Agricultural Education-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 579. Agriculture-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 582. Horticulture-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 585. Animal Health-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services ..

3847

Sum required for three

months ending. 30th September.

1972

$

205,000 2,517,000

685,000 1,293,000

55,000 149,000

553,000

78,500,000 20,000

488,000 1,636,000

588,000 152,000 23,000

245,000

7,384,000 3,500,000 3,100,000

73,000 116,000

55,000 259,000 221,000 777,000

790,000 521,000

91,000

2,465,000 596,000

146,000 157,000 76,000

103,000

418,000 47,000 17,000

588,000 330,000 517,000 630,000 399,000

3848

Division No.

Votes on [ASSEMBLY.]

588. Animal Industry-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 591. Dairying-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

Account.

594. Extension Services-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

HEALTH 620. Health Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 626. General Health-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 629. Tuberculosis-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 632. Maternal and Child Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 635. Mental Hygiene-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

STATE DEVELOPMENT 660. State Development-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 666. Immigration-Salaries and General Expenses . . . . . . 669. Industrial Development-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services ..

ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS 690. Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs-Contribution to Aboriginal Affairs Fund ..

FUEL AND POWER 700. Ministry of Fuel and Power-Salaries and General Expenses

RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION 710. Railway Construction Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

TRANSPORT 720. Ministry of Transport-Salaries and General Expenses ..

FORESTS 730. Forests Commission-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

WATER SUPPLY 740. State Rivers and Water Supply Commission-Salaries, General Expenses, and

Other Services ..

RAILWAYS 750. Railways-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

Total

Sum required for three

months ending 30th September.

1972

$

261,000 383,000 56,000

17,903,000 1,506,000

936,000 1,882,000 8,418,000

261,000 30,000 56,000

103,000

17,000

35,000

17,000

1,260,000

3,760,000

33,555,000

194,675,000

The motion which I have just moved covers Supply for the first three months of the financial year 1972-73.

sions taken at the special Premiers Conference held in Canberra on 14th February last.

The amount of $194'675 million shown on the Supply schedule is required to meet departmental spend­ing until the end of September next at current rates.

There is no urgency about the passing of the Supply Bill but I have considered it desirable to introduce it at the outset of the autumn ses­sional period in order that I might take an early opportunity of report­ing to the House on a number of recent developments affecting our finances, and, in particular, the deci-

Sir Henry Bolte.

Before coming to these matters, however, I want to refer to a change in the form of the Supply schedule which has been circulated to honor­able members.

Traditionally, the various divisions in the annual Estimates of Expendi­ture and, consequently, in the Supply schedules have been numbered com­mencing at 1 and proceeding there­after in strict numerical sequence. Honorable members will recall that, where it has been necessary in the course of a financial year to add a

Votes on [1 MARCH, 1972.] Account. 3849

new division or to change the posi­tion of a division because of changes in departmental functions, it has been the practice for a letter, for example "A", to be added to an existing division number in order to insert the new division in its appro­priate departmental order. In the following financial year the division numbers were reordered to incorp­orate the new division.

The position has now been reached where the electronic data processing computer centre conducted by the Public Service Board has developed a system for the application of elec­tronic data processing to the finan­cial recording and reporting func­tions of departments. This system is readily adaptable to the expendi­ture records of departments generally and the board's computer is already handling the expenditure side of the accounting operations of the Depart­ment of Agriculture.

Honorable members will have noted from the latest report of the Public Service Board tabled in the House the variety of projects which are being handled by the computer for the various departments. One of the fundamental and continuing tasks of the computer will be the handling of financial transactions, and in this regard it is desirable that the numbering of divisions, sub­divisions and items of expenditure in the Estimates should remain con­stant over relatively long periods of time and that scope exists to insert additional divisions without affecting the numbers of existing divisions.

As a consequence, the numbering of divisions in the Supply schedule has been amended to facilitate com­puter operations. I assure honor­able members that in no way does the new format of the schedule affect the interests and responsibili­ties of the House.

EMPLOYMENT-CREATING ACTIVITIES IN COUNTRY AREAs.-After the House rose last December, the Prime Min­ister wrote to me and to the other Premiers expressing concern at the

employment position in country areas and offering to provide the States with special grants for the purpose of introducing employment­creating activities in non-metro­politan areas during the period up to 30th June, 1973.

Following detailed discussions which were held immediately there­after in Canberra between Common­wealth and State officers, the Prime Minister announced the Common­wealth's decision to provide grants of $2·250 million a month to the States as from 1st December, 1971, for this purpose. The total grants to be paid to the States on this basis for the current financial year would be $15·750 million of which Victoria would receive $3·545 million.

The Prime Minister also indicated that the Commonwealth would keep the scheme under review during the first half of 1972, in the light of pre­vailing conditions. Within three days of the Prime Minister's announcement-this period of three days included a week-end-the first batch of approvals involving employ­ment for 360 men had been given in Victoria.

By Christmas I had approved recommendations from the steering committee which is handling the de­tailed administration providing for a total of just on 1,100 new job oppor­tunities throughout the State. The objective of the scheme is to provide the maximum possible new job opportunities in the country by carry­ing out works which are not only labour-intensive but which will confer worth-while benefits on local com­munities and the State generally.

At this stage I should like to pay a special tribute to municipal coun­cils and their officers throughout the State for the vital part they are play­ing in carrying out a significant part of the works effort involved in the scheme. MuniCipalities and other local bodies have greeted the scheme enthusiastically and excellent co­operation has been achieved. At present, of 166 country municipalities

3850 Votes on [ASSEMBL Y.] Account.

eligible to participate in the scheme, 133 have received grants. Grants have also been approved for 38 sew-er­age, waterworks and river improve­ment trusts as well as for Government departments and authorities operating in country areas.

FEBRUARY PREMIERS CONFERENCE. -In December the Prime Minister wrote to the Premiers indicating that he proposed to convene a special Premiers Conference on Monday, 14th February, to discuss the present economic situation. As honorable members will be generally aware from the press reports, there was a frank and full discussion between the Premiers and the Prime Minister and the Federal Treasurer on all aspects of the economy, and particularly on the part which the States could play in assisting the Commonwealth in creating more jobs and increasing confidence in the economy.

Members of the Opposition will be aware that the Premiers of Western Australia and South Australia are on record in expressing their apprecia­tion of the way in which the matters were examined and resolved by the conference.

For the sake of the record, I pro­pose to outline the results of the conference as they affect Victoria. These are, of course, additional to the decisions relating to increases in the rates of unemployment benefits and the restoration of the special investment allowance which fall solely within the purview of the Commonwealth but which have im­portant implications for the nation as a whole.

1. GRANTS FOR RURAL EMPLOY­MENT.-In the light of the initial success achieved with the scheme for creation of 'additional employment opportunities in country areas, the Commonwealth agreed to my sugges­tion to double the level of these grants to the States, effective from the beginning of February. The Com­monwealth's original proposal was to increase rural unemployment grants by approximately 60 per cent, but I

Sir Henry Bolte.

advocated that they be doubled and that suggestion was accepted. Under this decision Victoria will receive an additional $2·53 million up to the end of June, 1972, making a total of more than $6 million available during the current financial year.

Since returning from the confer­ence, II have approved additional jobs involving the expenditure of just on $1 million which will increase to 2,500 the number of men employed in country areas. Councils have been invited to send in further proposals to the steering committee as soon a_s possible.

2. WORKS PROGRAMMEs.-The Com­monwealth Government recognized the need, in present circumstances, to increase the level of the States' works programmes approved by the Loan Council last June. This was parti­cularly necessary because of the -effect of rapidly escalating wage costs on the level of work, and particularly building work, which the States could carry out with the funds at present available. The States were in trouble trying to maintain their present works effort in the face of rising costs, much less being in a position to give any stimulus to the building and construction industries.

In the light of the discussions which took place, the Loan Council unanimously approved an increase of $32 million in the 1971-72 works programmes. Victoria's share of this increase is $8· 170 million made up of an increase of $5·8 million in loan funds and of $2·37 million in the non­repayable interest-free works grant. The works grant was introduced last financial year as part of the works programme and is regarded by the Commonwealth as a contribution towards the non-revenue producing capital expenditure of the States on such things as schools and hospitals.

A sum of $2 million of the addi­tional works grant being made available to the States is being provided specifically having regard to the continuing costs for the States in administering, within their fields of responsibility, the

Votes on [1 MARCH, 1972.] Account. 3851

changeover to the metric system. The original offer was $2 million for all States to help finance the conver­sion to the metric system, but the Commonwealth offered the States an extra $5 million for general works rather than an increase in the amount of $2 million, because the point was raised by all Premiers that this amount would be insufficient to finance the conversion to the metric system.

It must also be recognized that this amount of $2 million will be granted to the States in perpetuity, and who could now assess what that contribution of $2 million, built into the base of the works and housing programmes, will ultimately amount to? At the same time the Common­wealth increased its offer by an addi­tional $5 million on the general works programme, which amount also will become the base. So in actual fact the Commonwealth agreed to an in­crease of $7 million, $5 million of which is to go to the works and housing programme and $2 million is to be allocated for conversion to the metric system. Considering that offer, all States were pleased to accept responsibility for conversion.

I should like to add that it should be clearly understood that the States can convert all the devices neces­sary to complete the changeover to the metric system only when they can afford to do so. I suggest that, although it may cost $7 million in the immediate future, the Government will be allocating funds for conver­sion to the metric system within the capacity of the Budget. Although the actual measurements may be used, I am sure that a lot of measuring in­struments will still be in the old form. Under those conditions, Victoria and the other States have agreed to pro­ceed with the conversion.

For Victoria this means a continu­ing grant of about $500,000 a year and the inter-departmental committee which has been investigating the effects of metric conversion on de­partmental activities is now looking

at the way in which the conversion can be handled on an annual budget of this order.

Of the additional funds available in the general works field approval has already been given to the following projects and allocations-

(a) General school building pro­gramme-$2 ·5 million in the current financial year.

This is in addition to the special grant of $1' 7 million for the school building programme in Victoria this year, which was announced by the Prime Minister last November.

(b) Introduction of a scheme of State grants to municipali­ties in the metropolitan area for employment giving ac­tivities-$1 million.

I point out to the Committee that, in putting a proposition for the doub­ling of the rural unemployment relief grant, I also submitted a proposition that an amount equivalent to the original grant for the country un­employment relief be made available for city municipalities. The Com­monwealth Government did not accept this suggestion. It accepted the first proposal, but advanced an argument which I suggest is some­what logical. What was decided did not occur by the Commonwealth direction entirely but resulted from force of circumstances. With an increased works programme, particu­larly when the States had already indicated that, in the main, the money would go into the fields of education and health, it was apparent that nearly all of that money-or at least a large percentage of it-would be spent in metropolitan areas, and that would, of course, create employment opportunities in the metropolis of each State.

However, I was convinced my proposition was proper and, on my return from the Premiers Conference, it was decided that $1 million of Victoria's own funds should be allocated during the remainder of this

3852 Votes on [ASSEMBLY.] Account.

financial year to metropolitan muni­cipalities, because it is very difficult to gear up the building programme in a matter of 3, 4 or 5 months. I hope this will result in the employ­ment of up to 1,000 people for this period which will finish on 30th June. By then I expect that the up­turn in the building industry, or in that part affected by Government action, will be off-setting any lack of employment created.

Mr. WILTON.-Must all the money be spent by 30th June?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Yes. All the money will be made available on applications from municipalities pro­vided that they will create work to employ so many people at so much a week for the remainder of this financial year.

Metropolitan councils were invited to send in by the end of February their proposals for suitable works which would take additional men in the city and suburbs. Initial alloca­tions totalling $76,000 have already been approved for the cities of Altona, Coburg, Mordialloc and Nunawading to employ a total of 74 men. That is an indication of what will happen. If the expenditure of $76,000 results in the employment of 74 men, the expenditure of $1 million should result in the employment of about 1,000 men.

Mr. McLAREN.-Will allocations to other metropolitan municipalities follow quickly on this?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Yes. It will be a case of first come, first served, but every municipality will receive funds according to the number of registered unemployed there. The money will be allocated in a scientific way-not on the basis of rate revenue or population but on the basis of registered unemployed in municipali­ties.

Mr. EDMUNDS.-But unemployment registration does not work that way.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-I do not know if that is so or not, but I have a very competent officer wpose

advice on this I accept. He has pointed out to me that it would be equitable, if we were to provide for the employment of 1,000 people throughout the municipalities of the metropolitan area, that, if there were 20,000 registered as unemployed in this area, money should be allocated on a basis of employing one in twenty unemployed in each municipality. If one municipality has more unem­ployed than another, even if it is smaller, it will receive more funds. I have accepted that advice. Money allocated on that basis is ready awaiting applications from the metro­politan municipalities for funds. This statement was compiled four or five days ago and by now more allocations than the four I have mentioned may have been made. By the end of this week I expect approval for the alloca­tion of the full $1 million to be given.

(c) Alfred Hospital rebuilding pro­gramme-$600,000.

This is something which was im­perative. Over many years there has been a lot of discussion concerning the adequacy of the Alfred Hospital. It has been suggested that there should be a major hospital on the campus of the Monash University, whereas the Alfred Hospital is one of the major teaching hospitals for the medical faculty at Monash. The posi­tion at the Alfred Hospital has been somewhat confused as a result of the applications by the faculty of medi­cine at Monash. There was indecision about the construction of four floors at the Alfred Hospital. They were to be built as shell floors. So this additional $600,000 is being used towards the completion of that work this financial year.

(d) A start on new building work at the Royal Melbourne Hospital to accommodate the proposed renal unit to cost a total of $2 million.

Not all of this money will be spent during this financial year but the amount of money which can be spent has enabled the Government to give the green light to start something

Votes on [1 MARCH, 1972.] Account. 3853

which the people at the Royal Melbourne Hospital believe to be important.

(e) Landscaping and site improve­ments around suburban rail­way stations-$120,000.

This is a minor matter, but it is something which can be done with this sort of money and this is the time to do it.

Mr. GINIFER.-Could station assist­ants be employed with this money?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-This is tem­porary money. The interjection shows how the Labor Party would control finance. It would employ permanent people by the use of tem­porary money.

(f) Urgent sewerage works at Tidal River in the Wilson's Promontory National Park­$56,000.

(g) Maintenance and improvement works with a high labour content at the Melbourne Zoological Gardens­$20,000.

(h) Additional funds for the farm water supply advances scheme-$80,000.

There is a bank-up of applications for this money and now it is being made available in this financial year.

Discussions are proceeding with departments about maintenance and other works which can be put in hand quickly in accordance with the spirit of the decisions reached with the Commonwealth.

3. SEMI-GOVERNMENT BORROWING PROGRAMME.-The year 1971-72 has been particularly favourable for loan raisings by our semi-Government bodies. It is obvious why this is so. In my opinion, the bond rate in Aus­tralia was too high; I do not say that it is now. With a 7 per cent bond rate a semi-governmental rate of 7·4 per cent was attractive. It was obvious to all major lenders that the rate would never be any higher. The only thing that could happen to it

Session 1912.-135

was that it could go down. So all shrewd and smart lenders filled the loans well in advance. I will give an example. Last year we had to supplement the funds of the Mel­bourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, which borrowed some $37 million. This year, approval was given to the board to borrow $48 million and it was borrowed before Christmas. All semi-Government loans were filled.

An increased allocation of which Victoria received $3·48 million was made and I was a little worried about how the money, or at least some of it, could be used in this financial year. Anyone who knows the finan­cial structure of the major utilities knows that they borrow this year, if it is a good borrowing year, against their works programme for next year. Although it is sound and sensible housekeeping, it does not achieve what the Premiers, the Prime Minis­ter and the Federal Treasurer expect because they want the money put to work immediately to employ people and to get the building and construc­tion industries under way.

Personally, I would not have ac­cepted more than has been allocated because I believe it would be borrowed money lying idle until next year's works programme and there­fore it could have had the opposite effect by taking money out of the over-'all bank and putting it aside where it does not work. The Govern­ment has been endeavouring to allo­cate the money so that it can be usefully utilized but this is not an easy task. The Gas and Fuel Cor­poration had some urgent works to be undertaken in the Hamilton and Warrnambool districts. I received an assurance from the chairman of the corporation that approximately $500,000 could be spent on these works this financial year. I immedi­ately gave the corporation authority to proceed with the works knowing that at least the money would be used this financial year. The Government has received an assurance from the Melboume and

3854 Votes on. [ASSEMBLY.] Account.· .

Metropolitan Board of Works that it can speed up one or two of its projects and therefore it has been allocated $1· 5 million this financial year.

Mr. WILKES.-The board has to repay that money.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Of course, but the money is now available. It is also proposed that municipalities will be allocated, I think, a further $600,000. Naturally the Government wants to be sure that the municipal­ities can use the money because it is undesirable that money should be raised and put in the bank as some­thing against next year's works pro­grammes. One fact that emerged from the recent Premiers Conference was that the States and the Common­wealth Government were concerned about the employment situation and the economy generally and all wanted to give it a boost. It is of no use putting money into the bank because it will not help anybody. I assure honorable members that the Govern­ment has been meticulous to ensure that the money which I received on behalf of the State is utilized as much as possible in this financial year.

Mr. EDMUNDS.-Is there any alloca­tion for the Housing Commission?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-No, not in this financial year. At the Premiers Conference, the Comm·onwealth Gov­ernment gave a clear indication of the programme for the next financial year. Although this was not given any publicity, the Prime Minister and the Federal Treasurer said that the works and housing programmes for last financial year plus the additional moneys would be the basis for the next financial year's allocation. Having received this assurance, the Government is endeavouring to use the money as quickly as possible and also plan for an increased works programme which can commence at the beginning of the next financial year. This is particularly applicable in the housing field. I do not provide this explanation as an excuse for not

putting money immediatel~ in.to hous­ing but at least I can IndIcate to the Housing Commission how much money will be available next year.

I have been dealing with matters relating to the loan programme and how loan funds will be used to create employment and, I hope, catch up with a backlog of work. It is im­portant to the Parliament and to the Government that Victoria also re­ceived additional general revenue grants. This is equally important be­cause the Federal and State Govern­ments do not want to become seri­ously embarrassed with their revenue budgets. Victoria took the opportunity of discussing the present outlook for State revenue budgets in the light of developments which have occurred since the Budgets were drawn up early in the present financial year. This was necessary as part of the over-all exercise because the ability of the States to increase expenditure on works programmes could not be looked at in isolation from what was happening to their revenue budgets.

In our own case, with the Consoli­dated Fund, this relationship is par­ticularly clear. As the Committee is aware, the amount available for pay­ment out of the Consolidated Fund in any year cannot be more than the amount received into the fund. The situation is therefore that any deter­ioration in the revenue budget sec­tor of the Consolidated Fund must be offset by a corresponding reduction in the level of funds available in the Works and Services Account. That is self-explanatory. Any shortage in the revenue account has to be taken from the Works and Services Account, which means that fewer works can be undertaken.

There have been two significant changes in the expenditure side of Victoria's Budget. Firstly, we have been faced with increased wage and salary awards involving a cost of more than $16 million this financial year which have been brought down by wage-fixing tribunals since the Budget for 1971-72 was finalized. Some $10 million of these additional

Votes on [1 MARCH, 1972.] Account. 3855

costs have been the result of awards in the hospital field and in this regard the Government has approved the provision of additional funds to the Hospitals and Charities Commission to cover these awards.

I make it clear that yesterday I gave approval for the Hospitals and Charities Commission to be reim­bursed for actual wage increases amounting to some $10 million. The wage and salary bill in the hospital field has increased by some $20 mil­lion this financial year. It was obvious to anyone planning for the future that additional costs would have to be met. Accordingly I made provision in the last Budget for an additional $10 million. Since then a further $10 million of un­foreseen expenditure has been incur­red, and approval has now been given to reimburse the hospitals.

The other field of increased expen­diture has been that of interest on our loan raisings. The experience of loan raisings by our semi-Government bodies this year, which I mentioned earlier, has also been reflected in Government loans. It is the same story. Government loans have been attractive and, instead of loans being staged every three months, Common­wealth Government loans in the early part of this financial year have been heavily over-subscribed. Naturally, the loans are raised on behalf of the Commonwealth and the States in the proportion laid down in the formula, and accordingly the State must accept its portion. The success of the early Commonwealth loan this financial year, as against moneys being bor­rowed periodically and just as re­quired, will cost Victoria an additional $2 million in interest payments. In other words, by Christmas, the Treasury would have had money al­most running out of its ears, so to speak, because it would have covered most of its loan programme in the first half whereas much of the money would not be expended until the latter half of the financial year. Although it may appear favourable to be able to borrow easily, a penalty

must be paid for the privilege. This is happening to municipalities, just as it is to other public authorities.

At the Premiers Conference the Prime Minister indicated that because of the effect of increased average wages on calculations under the tax reimbursement formula the States should receiye, in total, about $20 million more than was expected at Budget time. This will mean about an additional $5 million to Victoria.

Again I want to set the facts straight. The Budget I presented was prepared according to the strict con­ditions of the formula and in the light of an assessment of the tax reim­bursement payments to the State, but the State will now receive approxi­mately $5 million more than was expected. Moreover, at the Premiers Conference, the Commonwealth Government agreed-again strictly on the formula basis-to the provi­sion of an additional $15 million in grants, so in the result Victoria wiil receive additional revenue amounting to $8·75 million.

All in all I believe, along with the other Premiers, that the lead cur­rently being given by the Common­wealth and the decisions taken at the February meeting will make a useful contribution in providing a necessary stimulus to the economy as well as providing additional job opportunities over the next few months.

The Supply Bill now before the Com­mittee deals with the next financial year, and the working out of the measures which have now been intro­duced will have an important bearing on the background against which the 1972-73 Budget will have to be framed.

In Victoria, we will be making the maximum effort within the limits of our present resources to support these measures.

The only real danger to success will come from increased costs to the Budget flowing from the handing down of further new wage and salary. awards which must necessarily result

3856 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

in the diversion of funds from the works programme. Any such diver­sion must affect the plans now in hand for the creation of new job opportunities.

On reflection, I should have deleted that last paragraph, but it is a warn­ing that if costs increase the works programme will not be as large or as attractive as the Government would wish, but that is the current planning. The Government has budgeted to spend additional money in this financial year. What is more important is that it has agreed to an increased works programme for next financial year in advance of that financial year. I commend the Supply Bill to the Committee.

I have taken this early opportunity of acquainting the Committee with what I believe is the actual position so that honorable members may use Supply as the major debate of this sessional period. The Govern.ment hopes all honorable members will express their opinions under the various headings and will raise matters of general and particular interest.

Progress was reported.

ADJOURNMENT. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE-EDUCA­

TION DEPARTMENT: SUNSHINE HIGH SCHOOL-MENTAL HEALTH AUTHORITY: TELEPHONE F ACILI­TIES AT PLENTY MENTAL HOSPITAL -PRISONS DIVISION: LEGAL REPRE­SENTATION OF PRISONERS: PRI­SONERS ON REMAND-DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: COBURG MUNICIPAL TIP.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 rise to protest strongly on behalf of the Opposition at the situation under which this Par­liament has been called together and on two sitting days it has sat for a magnificent period of something like four hours! I do not really mind that the Government cannot order its business and that Parliament is called together with virtually no busi­ness to transact. That is a reflection upon the capacity of the Government and I leave it to the electors to make their own judgment. However, the Opposition is entitled to object to a motion which seeks the postponement of all business, which business in­cludes matters raised by private members. I draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, to the Orders of the Day which are listed under General Busi­ness. The first item is the Parlia­mentary Commissioner (Ombuds­man) Bill. Many people in this com­munity believe that the creation of a position of ombudsman is a matter of grave and urgent concern. The Government is entitled to reject such a proposal by using its numbers but what it is not entitled to do is con­tinuously to refuse to debate the underlying issues that are involved.

The second item listed is The Con­stitution Act Amendment (Reduction of Voting Age) Bill. I understand that the Premier has recently changed his mind about that and that is his prerogative, but surely at a time when young people are showing dis­enchantment about the institution of Parliament-some of their cynicism towards this institution may well be justified--

Mr. HAMER I move-

(Chief Secretary).- Mr. EDMUNDs.-The effectiveness of the Bill may depend on their sup-

That the House, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday next, at Two o'clock.

The motion was agreed to. Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­

I move-That the consideration of Orders of the

Day, Government Business, Nos. 3, and 5 to 16 inclusive, and Orders of the Day, General Business, be postponed until Tues­day next.

port.

Mr. HOLDING.-That is right. What I am saying is that in a situa­tion where young people and many others in the community are deeply concerned about the structure and nature of Governments and the role of Parliament, it is making a mockery of this institution for the Government to be so incompetent that it cannot

Adjournment. [1 MARCH, 1972.] Adjournment. 3857

proceed with its own legislation. The Government is not only proposing to adjourn its own business but it is going to use its numbers to ensure that private members' Bills, standing in the names of honorable members, will not be brought before the House.

It is ludicrous that members of an­other place can in fact introduce a private member's Bill and have it de­bated but owing to the attitude taken by the Government on private mem­bers' Bills which deal with matters close to the heart of the community and so are the subject of considerable argument and debate outside this House, members of this House do not have the same privilege. The Government announced that when Parliament met honorable members should be ready for a situation where they could expect to meet three days a week. Under sessional orders the House was going to meet three days a week and the Opposition was in­formed that the House would be meeting yesterday at 2.30 p.m. and could expect to meet at 2.30 p.m. to­day.

Mr. HAMER.-Who said that?

Mr. HOLDING.-That is what the Opposition was told. That was sub­sequently changed when the Minister got himself into a considerable mess in handling his own legislation last night. No Parliament in the history of Australia after having gone into recess and then meeting for the purpose of proceeding with urgent business has found itself in a situa­tion where it has met on one day­yesterday-for a period of two hours and today we have met for a period of two hours and then the Govern­ment has run out of business. The Opposition expected the Govern­ment to be ready .to proceed with an extensive legislative programme.

'f'he electorate will make its own judgment of la Governm'entwhich is so incompetent that it cannot pre­pare its own legislative programme, and I urge the Chief Secretary to have the good grace to call on item No.1 or item No, 2 of Orders of the Day,

General Business. The Opposition will certainly oppose that part of the motion which requires general business to be postponed.

Members of the Opposition who have gone to the trouble of pre­paring private members' Bills on very important issues are entitled to ex­pect them to be debated in the Par­liament. If after debate the Govern­ment wishes to use its numbers to reject the measures, that is its pre­rogative; but much damage is done to this institution when a situation arises in which, regardless of the work carried out by honorable mem­bers in the preparation of private members' Bills, the measures can never be debated. I believe many honorable members on the Govern­ment side of the House support what I have said, but the Opposition is merely told that General Business is to be postponed. The Government will then go away and put its legisla­tive programme in order.

I protest at the action taken by this incompetent Government which is causing damage to the institution of Parliament. The Government is com­posed of tired, lazy, incompetent, old men.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­One would think that this motion proposes something which is new. The honorable member is well aware that the Government is following what I believe to be a well-established course. What the Government is dOing is normally done at the begin­ning of each sessional period of Par­liament. Eleven Bills have been in­troduced, including Supply. Supply was introduced early, in order to give honorable members the widest scope for debating a variety of issues. Nine of the measures which have been in­troduced have been explained by the Ministers and will come before the House again next week.

Before the sessional period com­menced the Government-and, I believe, the Opposition also-expec-ted that one or two of the mea~l)re~

3858 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

remammg from the spring sessional period would be debated, but the reason that they have not been is just as much the responsibility of the Op­position as it is of the Government. For example, the next item on the Notice Paper is the Western Port (Steel Works Rating) Bill. I do not say that the Opposition wished to cut off debate when the measure came before the House yesterday, but that is what in fact happened, following the ruling given by Mr. Speaker. As I understand it, it has been agreed that debates on the next two Bills, namely, the Constitu­tion Bill and the Parliamentary Offi­cers Bill should not proceed at present. This was part of the Gov­ernment's legislative programme, and when the Constitution Bill was previously brought before this House 143 amendments to it were proposed, so that the debate on the Bill would have been lengthy.

The Government has laid the foun­dations of its legislative programme for this sessional period, and I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that the programme of Government Business will be ample to engage the attention of the Parliament.

The starting time of yesterday's sitting was set to meet the con­venience of honorable members. It is proposed that in future the House will meet at 2.30 p.m. on Tuesdays. It is generally agreed that the time of members is wasted when the House starts at a later hour. If, as a result the sittings of the House are adjourned earlier in the evening than they have been in previous sessions, this is to the benefit of members and not to their detriment. The House would not have sat today but for the Premier's desire to introduce Supply and to report to the House on the Premiers Conference in Canberra. I believe that was a desirable course and one which has opened. a wide field of discussion. I am sure the House did not object to hearing the Premier speak on such an important

matter. The Government has not de­parted from any precedent. Its legis­lative programme will be large enough to engage the attention of all honorable members.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I agree with the Chief Secretary that the Government has not departed from any precedent, for it has never had its legislative programme ready at the start of any sessional period. This has been evident in the past three or four years, but on this occasion the press predicted an extensive legislative programme.

Mr. Ross-EDwARDs.-The honor­able member should not take notice of the press.

Mr. WILKES.-On occasions like this one has to rely on what one reads in the press concerning the Govern­ment's programme. Last week honor­able members were given a copy of legislation proposed by the Govern­ment, and, to say the least, we were surprised at the paucity of it. I men­tioned this at our party meeting yesterday.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie ).-Order! I think the honor­able member is getting away from the question. The question is that re­maining business be postponed.

Mr. WILKES.-Mr. Speaker, we believe tha t remaining business should not be postponed until General Business has been dealt with. We do not cross swords with the Chief Secretary in respect of agreements made concerning the two Bills that the honorable gentleman referred to. That was an agreement reached by an parties.

It was not the intention of the Opposition to stifle debate on the Western Port (Steel Works Rating) Bill. The debate did not proceed because of the incompetence of the Government. The Opposition was prepared to debate the Bill, but the Government was not prepared to debate it in the way in which my party suggested. Any responsibility

Adjournment. [1 MARCH, 1972.] A4journment. 3859"

for that rests on the shoulders of the incompetent Minister of Transport. I draw the attention of the House to a number of Bills listed as Orders of the Day, General Business, which could be debated and keep this House occupied and spare the Government from some of the humiliation it must be experiencing from not having sufficient work available.

The Government has made all sorts of suggestions. It was proposed that the House should start early on Tues­days and Wednesdays and sit on Thursdays if there were sufficient business to warrant it. Honorable members can forget about that.

Mr. HAMER.-It depends on you. Mr. WILKES.-The Chief Secretary

says that it depends on the Opposition but--

The SPEAKER.-Order! This is a very restricted debate, and it is on the question whether or not remain­ing business should be postponed. The honorable member knows that the adjournment is handled in three motions and that this is the second of them: That remaining business be postponed.

Mr. WILKES.-It is restricted and confined, Mr. Speaker, but I wish to point out that responsibility for the House being in this disgraceful posi­tion rests squarely and solely with the Government. I have never heard such utter rubbish as the remarks of the Minister of Labour and Indus­try, who is now interjecting. Hither­to we have not had a beep out of him during this sessional period. The only Minister who has made an attempt to justify the stand of the Government was the Minister of Transport, and he made a mess of it.

The Government has a cheek to propose the adjournment of the House at this time of the evening on only the second day of the sessional period. The number of private members' Bills on the Notice Paper could provide healthy debate. Two of those Bills standing in my name

could be dealt with. The Parliament­ary Commissioner (Ombudsman) Bill has not been called on because the Government cannot make up its mind on the subject. It ,had a policy.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member is now discussing the Bills.

Mr. WILKES.-Debate on five Bills on the Notice Paper under the heading "General Business" could get the Government out of its dilemma and allow the business of the House to proceed in an orderly manner.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­I support the Chief Secretary in his remarks that the Government has introduced eleven Bills, nine of which have had their second reading. They represent fresh business. The Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition are dis­tressing themselves unnecessarily at an early stage of the sessional period. In my experience with other Gov­ernments, this procedure is always likely to happen; it is a consequence of the introduction of Bills and the fact that debate on them has to be adjourned.

As regards business that was left over from the last sessional period, the major item was the Constitution Bill and the ancillary measure, the Parliamentary Officers Bill. I have discussed this matter with my ad­visers, who consider that the Par­liamentary Officers Bill should follow the Constitution Bill. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition knows that some time ago I sought to have dis­cussions with him and his Leader on the Constitution Bill but they were engaged on other business.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The Attorney-General is getting wide of the motion.

Mr. REID.-I come to the short point and, to use a common expres­sion, I have been in dialogue with the Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. The

3860 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

matter cannot be dealt with this week. Other Bills on the Notice Paper have been left over from the last sessional period, but for satis­factory reasons they cannot be pro­ceeded with.

The Deputy Leader of the Oppo­sition referred to Bills under the heading "General Business" on the Notice Paper. I am particularly interested in the Family Courts Bill standing in his name. We want to have discussions on this matter be­cause grave constitutional difficulties arise concerning the powers vested in the Commonwealth in matrimonial causes and divorce. I want to dis­cuss this matter with the Deputy Leader of the Opposition at an early date.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I move-

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-I direct the attention of the Minister of Edu­cation to the staffing of the Sunshine High School and particularly to pub­licity given to the alleged better staffing of high schools throughout the State. I refer to a circular letter dated 22nd February, over the signature of the principal, Mr. R. Ritter, which was sent to the parents of students in forms 1. to IV. The letter states, inter alia-

To parents of students of forms I.-IV.

Dear parents, I am writing to inform you of a plan

which we have that wi'll help ease the pressure brought on by present staff short­ages. This plan was in operation during part of last year for the same reason.

Beginning on February 28, we propose to free students of forms I.-IV. during period 5 of a day when and if their teachers for that period are absent. We would only do this if we knew, for example, on Monday that Mr. X who takes Iz geography would not be at school on the Tuesday and would thus be able to give written notice to this effect to parents of pupils of form Iz.

I also direct attention to a letter sent to the parents of pupils in form IV.B, dated 29th February, again over the signature of the principal, Mr. R. Ritter, which states-

This is to inform you, that your child's teacher of maths-A, Mr. Kuhne, has been transferred and will not be available on Wednesday, 1st March.

In accordance with my previous circular, I am therefore informing you that I intend to dismiss the above group(s) of students at 2.52 p.m.

I underline the fact that the modus operandi provides that students are being dismissed before the normal closing hours of the school because of the transfer of a senior mathematics teacher at Sunshine High School. I ask the Minister of Education to have his officers investigate this matter immediately and arrange for a re­placement mathematics teacher at this school, thus avoiding the need for students to be sent home at 3 p.m. and enabling the students in form IV.B to get the mathematics instruc­tion to which they are entitled.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-In view of the absence of the Minister of Health, I should like the Minister representing him to direct his atten­tion to an urgent state of affairs at the Plenty Mental Hospital, which is in my electorate. After consultation with the Minister of Health I visited that institution on Monday morning. The senior charge nurses are living in houses on the hospital grounds so tha t they can be on call a t all times. One of these senior nurses, Mr. Skuja, suffered a coronary attack on Thursday evening and was unable to use the telephone to call for medical attention. Some delay occurred in getting this attention. Subsequently, medical attention was obtained, but medical advice was to the effect that it was almost too late.

The reason for the delay was a departmental instruction to the Post­master-General's Department to alter

Adjournment. [1 MARCH, 1972.] Adjournment. 3861

the telephone system in the residences and to cut off the "0" line, which is a similar procedure to that operat­ing at Parliament House. Honorable members will know that they can dial " 0 " to make outside calls. The calls at the hospital must now go through a three-line switchboard which ceases to operate at 10 p.m. The Mental Health Authority has informed me that this switchboard operates be­tween the hours of 7 a.m. and 1 0 p.m. The three-line switchboard is in­adequate; it should have about six­teen lines.

After 1 0 p.m. the calls must go through the adjoining hospital at Mont Park. This switchboard has only one line available from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. The problem is that this switchboard serves both Mont Park and Plenty hospitals and the operator is a nurse who must also carry out the routine duties of her ward as well as looking after 36 patients.

This is an indictment of the Gov­ernment and requires urgent atten­tion. I have been unable to 'contact the Minister and I am appealing to the Premier to take the appropriate action. This is an actual case which can be quickly proved by investiga­tion; it is not mythical. What has occurred is on record, and Dr. Paull, of the Plenty Mental Hospital, con­firms it. Therefore, I am not just speculating. I should like to know why all of these telephones were disconnected. Does not the Minister or the Premier have sufficient trust in his own senior officers? I ask what urgent action the Premier will take to correct the situation and to change the phones of the charge officers back to the dial system to prevent the type of situation which could arise in the event of fire or accident.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).­I wish to direct the attention of the Attorney-General to an issue of law in Victorian prisons with which most prison reformists are concerned. Following recent disturbances in some of the State's prisons, it is obvious that charges will be laid

Session 1972.-136

against certain prisoners, and visiting magistra tes will be going to the prison. Where they find cases to answer and people guilty of offences, they will be handing out addi­tional sentences or punishments to prisoners. The prison reformists believe the Law Department should examine the circumstances under which a visiting magistrate hears a charge laid against a prisoner by prison officers and imposes a penalty involving additional imprisonment with a view to ensuring that the prisoner is legally represented either by an officer from the Law Depart­ment or by a legal practitioner whom he will be able to select from a panel.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Who will?

Mr. EDMUNDS.-The prisoner who is being tried by a visiting magistrate on a charge which could involve additional imprisonment. This matter is of great concern to those people who believe that this is one of the points causing discontent among prisoners. I ask the Attorney­General to have officers of the Law Department investigate my sugges­tion with a view to rectifying the situation.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir).­I wish to raise a matter concerning the Departmen t of Health. The Coburg municipal tip in the New­lands area is in such a condition that the local residents are being incon­venienced. In recent months they have been complaining about the odour emanating from the tip. The Preston City Council has supplied the residents of the district with pesti­cides and other equipment with which to combat the bugs, flies and other insects emanating from the tip. I ask the Minister of Health to use his powers under the Health Act to ensure that the Coburg City Council takes the required action to keep the tip in a proper condition.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West). -I have brought to the notice of the Attorney-General a method which to my mind will reduce the number of prisoners on remand. The prison

3862 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Questions on Notice.

seems to be filled with people who are remanded unnecessarily and this is obvious to anyone with a sense of justice. I should like to know whether the Attorney-General has investigated the suggestions which I forwarded to him some time ago?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I will refer the matters raised by the honorable members for Moonee Ponds, Reservoir and Brunswick West to the respective Ministers. I am not sure where the Attorney­General is at the moment, but I will ensure that the matters that have been raised are referred to him.

The House divided on the motion (Sir Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 38 Noes 21

Majority for the motion 17

AYES.

Mr. Billing Mr. Birrell Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Borthwick Mr. Crellin Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mrs. Goble Mr. Guy Mr. Hamer Mr. Hayes Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton 'Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. McDonald

(Rodney) Mr. McLaren Mr. Maclellan Mr. Meagher

Mr. Mitchell Mr. Moss Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) Mr. Stephen Sir Edgar Tanner Mr Taylor

(Balwyn) Mr. Templeton Mr. Thompson Mr. Trethewey Mr. Wheeler Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Broad Mr. McCabe.

NOES.

Mr. Amos Mr. Lewis (Portland)

Mr. Lind Mr. Mutton Mr. Simmonds Mr. Trezise Mr. Turnbull Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers:

Mr. Bornstein Mr. Clarey Mr. Curnow Mr. Doube Mr. Edmunds Mr. Fordham 'Mr. Ginifer Mr. Holding Mr. Kirkwood Mr. Lewis Mr. Fell

(Dundas) Mr. Shilton.

The House adjourned at 6.20 p.m., until Tuesday, March 7.

1Jjtgis!atiut (!tuunti!. Tuesday, March 7, 1972.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) took the chair at 4.54 p.m., and read the prayer.

LANDS DEPARTMENT. RESIDENCE AT PORTLAND.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL (Wes­tern Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

As the Department of Crown Lands 'and Survey is building 'a residence for its inspec­tor in Portland, will a telephone be ,con­nected, as requested by the landholders in the area; if not, why?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-The an­swer supplied by the Minister of Lands is-

As departmental CQunltry offices, including Portland, 'are equipped with telephones, it is not the practice to install B'ame in resi­dences occupied by the department's officers, who may make their own private arrangements for this service if they so desire.

ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY OF PORT PHILLIP BAY.

REPORT OF CO-ORDINATING COMMITTEE.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Mel­bourne West Province) asked the Minister for State Development-

Has the report by the interim committee of the environment study council of Victoria been completed; if not, when is it expected to be completed?

The 'Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister for State Development) .-The an­swer is-

On 27th April, 1971. the honorable member asked an 'identical question. The an'swer given on that occasion was Ithat the question presumably referred to the com­mittee co-ordinating the environmental study of Port PhiUip Bay and thaJt they had not completed their report but expected to do so by the end of 1971.

I have been advised that the environ­mental study of Port PhiHip Bay Co-ordinat­ing Committee has issued ,a progr,ess report in June, 1971, 'and a copy of the report is available.

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3863

POLICE DEPARTMENT.

WARRNAMBOOL POLICE STATION.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL (Western Province) asked the Min­ister of Public Works-

(a) What plans (if any) have been made to improve the accommodation at the Warrnambool police headquarters, where there has been an increase in the number of personnel?

(b) If plans are in hand, will provision be made to facilitate car registration by also making off-street parking areas available?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answers are-

1. Plans have been prepared for the construction of two additional offices for use by the Criminal Investigation Branch personnel and it is also proposed to carry out internal and external renovations to the existing premises. It is hoped that these works will be completed during the 1972-73 financial year.

2. Not at present, but off-street parking will be considered in all future planning.

MINES DEPARTMENT.

UNDERGROUND AQUIFERS IN WESTERN

SUBURBS: POLLUTION.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Mel­bourne West Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) Further to the answer given to ques­tion No. 3 asked in this House on 14th September, 1971, what action has been taken to stop the pollution of the under­ground aquifers in the western suburbs?

(b) Where are these aquifers located?

(c) Who are the polluters, and how much damage to the environment 'has been caused or is likely to be caused by their actions?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The answers are-

(a) Collection and assessment of data is still proceeding to accurately establish sources of pollution to enable appropriate action to be taken.

Following the direction of the Premier an inter-departmental committee has been established, with the following terms of reference:-

1. To review known facts concerning aquifer pollution, with particular refer­ence to the Melbourne metropolitan area, and initially to the western suburbs.

2. Action to control or stop present sources of contamination and to stimulate alternate outlets for such waste.

3. Consideration of technological ad­vances in treating such wastes, for example combined liquid-solid waste disposal plants.

4. Consideration I()f any technological means throughout the world, with appro~ priate cost-benefit studies, of the means of sealing off the contaminated aquifers to prevent the hydraulic gradient forcing the contamination to spread to surface waters.

5. Any other relevant matters.

(b) They are accurately delineated in Mines Department Bulletin No. 59 II Geo­logy of the Melbourne District, Victoria, 1967 It, pages 79 onwards.

(c) This is not yet known positively, but these matters are under investigatil()n by the inter-departmental committee as is evident from the terms of reference.

PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.

SCHOOL BUILDING CONTRACTS:

PENAL TY CLAUSES.

The Hon. R. J. EDDY (Doutta Galla Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

(a) When were the penalty clauses in relation to tlle building time of any school invoked by his department?

(b) Are there any penalty clauses in regard to the completion date of Lalor Technical School; if so, what are the details of those clauses?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answers are-

(a) There are no penalty clauses as such used in building contracts prepared by the Public Works Department but there is provision for payment of assessed damages due to delays caused solely by the builder.

(b) The clause specifying damages for delay in completion provides that, if the contractor fails to complete the whole of the work on or before tlle date for com­pletion and the superintendent certifies that in his opinil()n the work ought reasonably to have been so completed, the contractor shall pay to the Minister of Public Works by way of liquidated damages a sum cal­culated at the rate of $225 per day for the period after the date for completion until oompletion of the whole of the work, but if the contractor has been or is entitled to be issued with a certificate of practical completion of a section of the work, the sum payable shall be reduced by an amount which the superintendent determines as representing the proportion of the sum which is attributable to that section of the work.

3864 Questions [COUNCIL.] on Notice.

MUNICIPALITIES. UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF FUNDS.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) asked the Minister of Agri­culture-

In respect of the various municipalities rill the Northern Province, will he supply de­<tails of (i) the amounts of unemployment relief funds applied for; (ii) the amounts already made avaHable; and (iii) the dates and amounts of further such funds?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-As the answer contains detailed information, I suggest that, by leave of the House, it be incorporated in Hansard without my reading it.

Leave was granted, and the answer was as follows:-

The details requested by the honorable member are set out as follows:-

(i) (ii) (iii) Name of municipality

Amounts of unemployment

relief funds applied for

Amounts already made available

Dates and amounts of further such funds

Kerang Shire .. Kerang Borough Cohuna Shire .. Gordon Shire .. Kara Kara Shire St. Arnaud Town Charlton Shire Korong Shire ., Bet Bet Shire .. Rochester Shire East Loddon Shire Waranga Shire Deakin Shire .. Shepparton Shire Shepparton City Tungamah Shire Cobram Shire .. Nathalia Shire .. Echuca City ., Kyabram Borough Rodney Shire .. Numurkah Shire

$

323,500 32,250 10,400 18,210 3,100

18,000 23,700 15,500 21,100 4,700

20,300 9,100

11,580 77,000 66,500 14,400 13,450 10,381 60,152 J 8,600 66,350 33,090

$

4,500

1,600 5,500 6,700 4,000 5,200

2,100

12,000

$

* *

*

* * * * * * * * * *

• Allocations of available funds are made after consultation with the Commonwealth Department of Labour and National Service having regard to the existing and expected level of unemployment in various areas. As part of the longer term planning it is proposed to make allocations of funds to municipalities included in the Northern Province later this week to provide employment as the demand for seasonal labour declines.

VICTORIAN GOVERNMENT TOURIST BUREAU.

LOCA TION OF BUREAUX. For the Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Mel­

bourne Province), the Hon. G. J. O'Connell asked the Minister for Tourism-

(a) How many Victorian Government tourist bureaux are in Victoria, other States, and New Zealand, respectively?

(b) Where are these bureaux located, and what personnel are engaged at each location?

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister for Tourism) .-The answers are­

(a) Victoria-five. In addition, a Trav­ellers Service Centre is located at Mel­bourne Airport.

New South Wales-one. South Australia-one. Queensland-one. Western Australia-nil. Tasmania-nil. New Zealand-nil.

(b) Melbourne .. 109 Melbourne Airport (Travellers

Service Centre) 2 Ballarat 4 Bendigo 4 Geelong 5 Mildufla 2 Adelaide 7 Brisbane 4 Sydney 6

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3865

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. ENSAY PRIMARY SCHOOL.

The Hon. R. W. MAY (Gippsland Province) asked the Minister of Pub­lic Works-

When .is it anticipated that the promis'ed portable class-room will be delivered on site at Ensay Primary School?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer is-

Present indications 'are that the portable class-room will be delivered to Ensay be­tween 9th and 17th March.

KERANG HIGH SCHOOL.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

(a) In view of the 'acute shortage of teaching staff at the Kerang High School, will the Minister of Education take immediate steps to ,ensure that We school is staffed on its true basis as a compre­hensive school and with due regard to the special claims of the technical components?

(b) When will a librarian be appointed to this school?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answers are-

(a) There is no acute shortage of teach­ing sitaff at the Kerang High School. The target figure for this school is 42 ·15 teachers for 882 pupils; the actual staff is 45.

(b) When a suitable person becomes available for appointment the vacant posi­tion of librarian will be filled.

LAKE CHARM PRIMARY SCHOOL.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

What progress has, been made with the acquisition of a house for the principal of the Lake Charm Primary School?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer is-

At the meeting of the Residence Selec­tion Committee on 6th March, 1972, it was decided to recommend the provision of a residence for the principal of Lake Charm Primary School.

The Teacher Housing Authority will be advised of this decision in the near future. There are, however, many other approved cases awaiting attention and no specific

indica1tion can at present be given as to when the authority will be in a position to proceed with this project.

COHUNA HIGH SCHOOL.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

In view of increased enrolments, and con­sequent overcrowding at the Cohuna High School, will the Minister of Education give urgent attention to the provision of additional class-room accommodation and also advise what emergency measures are being planned and executed by the Educa­tion Department?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer is-

At Cohuna High School there are 21 class-rooms, plus one portable class-room. This accommodation should provide for more than the present enrolment of 535 pupils without overcrowding.

However, there is a need for improvement in the accommodation for teaching staff and administration staff, 'and efforts are being made to expedite this exercise.

SEX INSTRUCTION IN SCHOOLS.

The Hon. R. W. MAY (Gippsland Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

Does the Education Department intend to institute a course of sex instruction in schools; if so, when is it proposed to com­mence the instruction, to what age groups, and in what type of schools?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works).-The answer is-

Generally speaking, decisions on curri­culum detail in schools are made by prin­cipals and staffs. There would be inci­dental teaching of human reproduction in courses dealing with human relationships, health and general science at all levels. The Australian Science Education Project has been testing new science courses in a few schools of all types, State, independ­ent and Roman Catholic, almost all at sec­ondary level. These included a unit entitled "Males and Females". These trials were conducted only after obtaining the approval of school principals who in turn had sought permission from parents. The trials lasted two months and were completed in. Decem­ber, 1971. The age group was twelve to thirteen years old.

Decisions on the general use of any unit in the total science programme will not be made until all the evidence has been collected and a report prepared and sub­mitted.

3866 Questions [COUNCIL.] on Notice.

EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES ACT. QUARRY "LICENCES.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Mel­bourne West Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) How many quarries are operating with a permit under the Extractive Indus­tries Act 1966?

(b') Why have licences not been issued, and what is the ,cause of the delay?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-The ans­wers are-

(a) Quarries do not-in terms of the Extractive Industries Act 1966--operate with or under a permit. The Extractive Industries Act provides for the grant of an extractive industry lease 'Or an extrac­tive industry licence authorizing quarrying operations. To date, 150 extractive indus­try licences and six extractive industry leases have been issued.

(b) Operating quarries in respect of which extractive industry leases or extrac­tive industry licences have not been granted are of two kinds:-

Those outside the scope of the Extractive Industries Act; and

those which were lawfully operating before the commencement of the Act and have continued to operate pending the grant of the necessary licences.

Delays in the issue of extractive industry licences frequently occur where the quarry operator is required to obtain a permit under the Town and Country Planning Act 1961 to. continue or commence quarry­ing operations. Where a permit is so required, an extractive industry licence may not be issued until the permit is granted. Delays in the issue of extractive industry licences 'have in the past been caused through staffing problems, but these problems are being satisfactorily resolved.

LEVEL CROSSINGS FUND. CONTRIBUTIONS: WARNING DEVICES

FITTED.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD (Northern Province) asked the Min­ister for Local Government-

(a) What finance has been contributed to the Level Crossings Fund in each of the past five years by-(i) the Railway Department; (ii) the Country Roads Board; and (iii) the Treasury?

(b) How many level crossings have been fitted with warning devices in each of ,these years, giving details of the type of devices installed?

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government).- The ans­wers are-

(a) Nil. The Level Crossings Fund is credited

with one-third of the moneys received by way of additional registratilQn fees under section 8 of the Motor Car Act 1958, and moneys provided under any other Act. These moneys are available for the purposes of the elimination of level crossings and fior associated works.

(b) Financial year Flashing lights Boom barriers

1971-72 (to date) 6 4 1970-71 22 1 1969-70 26 6 1968-69 38 7 1967-68 25 3

ELECTORAL. ENROLMENTS FOR PROVINCES AND

ELECTORATES.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Mel­bourne West Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

What are the current electoral enrolments for the Legislative Council provinces and the Legislative Assembly districts?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer to this question contains long schedules relating to both Legis­lative Council provinces and Legisla­tive Assembly districts and I sug­gest that, by leave of the House, they be incorporated in Hansard without being read.

Leave was granted, and the answer was as follows:-

The attached schedules indicate the num­ber of voters enrolled as at 31st December, 1971, in each Legislative Council province and Legislative Assembly district.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Enrolment as at 31st December, 1971.

Province Ballaarat Bendigo Boronia Doutta Galla East Yarra Gippsland Higinbotham Melbourne Melbourne North Melbourne West

Number

60,016 63,231

164,741 130,538 119,517 85,888

122,661 108,674 111,265 135,937

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3867

Province

Monash Northern North-Eastern North-Western South-Eastern South-Western Templestowe Western

Total

Number

123,458 60,180 55,505 47,027

160,764 98,683

157,400 60,091

1,865,576

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

Enrolment as at 31st December, 1971. District Number

Albert Park 21,733 Ballaarat North 24,165 Ballaarat South 20,301 Balwyn 27,178 Bellarine 26,979 Benalla 18,516 Benambra 19,073 Bendigo 23,714 Bennettswood 27,567 Bentleigh 26,317 Box Hill 39,467 Brighton 23,778 Broadmeadows 39,926 Brunswick East 22,856 Brunswick West 22,384 Camberwell 24,203 Caulfield 26,666 Coburg 22,527 Dandenong 35,928 Deer Park 41,032 Dromana 24,945 Dundas 18,000 Essendon 26,626 Evelyn 22,206 Footscray 23,273 Frankston 40.205 Geelong 23,486 Geelong North 25,539 Gippsland East 19,394 Gippsland South 20,016 Gippsland West 18,980 Gisborne 27,892 Glenhuntly 27,928 Glen Iris 24,183 Greensborough 39,870 Hampden 17,673 Hawthorn 24,595 Heatherton 35,409 Ivanhoe 26,089 Kara Kara 16,391 Kew 25,467 Lowan 18,335 Malvern 25,831 Melbourne 24,304 Mentone 27,104 Midlands 22,908 Mildura 18,826 Mitcham 29,701 Monbulk 31,005 Moonee Ponds 24,857 Moorabbin 27,987 Morwell 24,046 Murray Valley 19.975

District

Narracan Northcote Oakleigh Polwarth Portland Prahran Preston Reservoir Richmond Ringwood Rodney St. Kilda Sandringham Scoresby Shepparton Sunshine Swan Hill Syndal Warrnambool Williamstown

Total enrolment

Number

22,432 23,585 24,503 18,336 18,495 24,798 24.053 27,328 20,997 34,182 19,423 25.028 25,375 47,875 20,535 25,380 18,580 37,169 19,124 28,292

1,865,576

RURAL RECONSTRUCTION SCHEME.

ApPLICATIONS: NUMBER ASSISTED.

The Hon. D. E. KENT (Gippsland Province) asked the Minister of Agriculture-

How many applications have been received and how many applicants have been assisted under the States Grants (Rural Reconstruc­tion) Act 1971 in each of the following categories-(i) debt reconstruction; (ii) farm build-up; and (iii) rehabilitation?

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The answer is-

Details in connection with applications for rural reconstruction assistance as at 6th March, 1972, were as follows:-

Debt reconstruction Total number of applications received-

2,178. Of this number-

516 are in course of being dealt with, 1,280 have been declined or withdrawn,

382 have been offered assistance total­ling $8,437,950.

Farm build-up Total number of applications received-

304. Of this number-

89 are in ·course of being dealt with, 124 have been declined or withdrawn, 91 have been offered assistance total­

ling $2.052,800.

Rehabilitation Number of applications received-3. Number of applications approved-3.

3868 Questions [COUNCIL.] on Notice.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. FRUIT FLY INSPECTION POINTS.

For the Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Mel­bourne Province), the Hon. G. J. O'Connell asked the Minister of Agriculture-

(a) Is he aware of the primitive con­ditions under which fruit fly inspectors work in the Mildura-Merbein area; if so, what is going to be done to improve con­di'tions?

(b) Is he aware that two almost-indis­tinguishable inspection posts are manned for only eight hours daily, in spite of discoveries of fruit fly at Broken Hill and in South Australia; if so, what action is proposed in this matter?

The Hon. (Minister of answers are-

G. L. CHANDLER Agriculture) .-The

(a) Two inspection points are maintained in Ithe Mildura--Merbein area for the check­ing 'Of vehicles to prevent the entry of fruit fly. These are not permanent check points, operating on'ly during the summer months, and therefore have not justified the expenditure of large sums of money which would be involved in the construction of permanent installations which would be expensive to maintain because of vandalism when they are unoccupied during the winter months. The temporary facilities include shelters from sun and rain. The check point on the Silver City Highway north of Wentworth is operated by the Victorian Department of Agriculture in co-operation with the New South Wales department. This was only set up late in 1971 and at the present time discussi'Ons are continuing between the two departments with a view to improving fadlities at this point. On the Sturt Highway west of Merbein, arrangements are being made for the pro­vision of a mobile shelter.

(b) These two check points are not almost indistinguishable as they are both clearly marked with prominent signs. These have recently been subjected to vandalism but have since been repaired.

Experience has indicated that the opera­tion of the two check points in the Mildura district on a daylight-hour basis is sufficient to intercept almost all of the tourist traffic and although considerable quantities of fruit are confiscated, particularly on the Sturt Highway check point, no fruit fly infested fruit has been detected. On the other hand the check point set up at Euston in co­operation with the New South Wales Depart­ment of Agriculture, to protect Sunraysia from traffic which may come from areas to the east where fruit fly is well estab­lished, operates on a 24-hour basis. From the number of interceptions of fly-infested fruit at ,this check point, it is obvious that

this installation is proving its effectiveness in providing the main means of defence of the Sunraysia district against the introduc­tion of fruit fly.

The increase in time of operation at each of the two check points near Mildura to 24 hours, seven days a week, would require similar staffing and facilities to those at Euston and would involve operational costs of approximately $54,000 per annum at each point as well as a large capital cost for buildings and equipment. Such an expendi­tUre would need to be considered in relation to the whole fruit fly eradication and control programme throughout the State as there are other border crossings adjacent to horti­cultural districts for which a scaling up of hours of operation has also been requested.

Under present financial conditions and without any suggestions from the various fruit industries that they would be prepared t'O make direct contributions to these additional costs, it is unlikely that the Government would be able to provide Ithe necessary finance to man these road blocks for 24 hours a day.

MEDICAL PROFESSION. STUDENT DOCTORS.

The Hon. B. P. DUNN (North­Western Province) asked the Minister for State Development-

(a) What number of student doctors are at present undergoing training in Victoria? (b) What is the estimated number of

students who will successfully complete their studies and Itake up practice in Victoria in each of the next five years?

(c) In anyone year, in Victoria, what is the total number of vacancies becoming available to those wishing to undergo studies to become a doctor?

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister for State Development). - The answers are-

(a) University of Melbourne 1,228 Monash University 932.

(b) Melbourne Monash 1972 119 125 1973 177 122 1974 177 132 1975 181 141 1976 181 140

Totals 835 660

(c) At the present time: University of Melbourne 220 Monash University 160

380

Total 244 299 309 322 321

1,495

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3869

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

POLLUTION IN ST. KILDA.

The Hon. D. G. ,ELLIOT (Melbourne Province) asked the Minister for State Development-

(a) Is he aware that the sickly odour which frequently emanates from the Cowderoy Street drain at st. Kilda West is now, even more frequently, upsetting local residents and persuading motorists driving along Beaconsfield Parade in the region of the drain to greatly increase speed in order to escape the proboscis punishment inflicted on them?

(b) Is he aware that a similar stench now exists between Brooks Jetty (near Luna Park) and Dickens Street, caused by inter­ference to natural tide flows by the st. Kilda marina?

(c) Will he make arrangements for the Government, through the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, to regularly supervise and clean 'these two precious recreational areas?

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister for State Development). - The answers are-

(a) There is an awareness of an odour emanating from the rotting seaweed on the beach at West St. Kilda and seaweed deposited in the mouth of the Cowderoy Street drain. The recurring deposition of seaweed is a direct result of the construc­tion of the breakwater and until some major expenditure is undertaken in respect of re­storing the natural movement of the waters in the bay, such depOSition and decomposi­tion will continue to occur.

(b) There is also awareness that a similar stench exists near Luna Park and again this arises from an accumulation of seaweed and is not a result of discharge of drainage water.

(c) The responsibility lies with the St. Kilda Foreshore Committee to remove the seaweed as it is washed ashore.

LAND. OWNERSHIP IN NANGILOC-COLIGNAN

AREA.

The Hon. D. E. KENT (Gippsland Province) asked the Minister for State Development-

(a) Has Colgate-Palmolive Pty. Ltd. recently purchased 3,000 acres on the River Murray in the Nangiloc-Colignan area; if so-(i) has it been granted a water right, and for what area; and (ii) what crops does it plan to grow?

(b) What are the names of individuals or companies with 30 acres or more in the NangUoc-Colignan area, and what 'is the size of each holding?

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister for State Development). - The answer is-

The State Rivers and Water Supply Com­mission has not been approached by Colgate­Palmolive Pty. Ltd. regarding allocation of water under licence from the River Murray in the Nangiloc-Colignan area; nor has it any knowledge of the company having purchased land in that area.

LAW DEPARTMENT. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Mel­bourne North Province) .-1 wish to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing the grave and continuing deterioration of the Victorian legal system.

Approval of the proposed discus­sion was indicated by the required number of members rising in their places, as specified in Standing Order No. 53.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (MeI~ bourne North Province).-I propose' to speak on the subject of the grave and continuing deterioration of the Victorian legal system. Justice is possible only when to every lnan belongs the power to resist and claim redress for wrongs. In Victoria, justice advances with such languid steps as to echo the lament of the Great Charter of England. Justice delayed is justice denied. To deny justice is to tamper with the very soul of this nation, the very basis on which civilization depends. With­out justice nothing else is possible.

The review I propose to make is by no means a comprehensive one and it relates only to Melbourne. It is offered to the House to show that the processes of the law are being denied to those who need its pro­tection most. I'll the civil jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, 1,328 cases were set down ready for trial this year. To understand what that means, one must realize that on an average two years' preliminary work

3870 Law [COUNCIL.] Department.

is undertaken in interlocutory matters and the case is then certified as ready for trial.

Of the 1,328 Supreme Court cases ready to be heard early this year, 80 were listed for hearing. If all those cases were brought on this month­that is the basis on which they are fixed-and assuming they were all disposed of this month, a list of the size I have mentioned would not be disposed of for another year and a half. Many of the 80 cases listed for hearing will not be ready this month. An examination of the list for February will show that most of those cases appeared in the Decem­ber list and even in the November list.

Mr. President, you will understand that while these figures relate only to Melbourne-I concede that the Supreme Court operates in the pro­vinces-there is an enormous back­log of cases. I should not like the House to think that I have plucked these figures out of the air and that they are not typical. They are typical. The delay in the civil juris­diction of the Supreme Court in Melbourne has been going on for some time and is getting worse.

What are these cases about? Probably over 90 per cent of the claimants are suffering from grievous injuries caused by motor accidents. Many of them are new Australians, some of whom have the added hazard of suffering from the economic reces­sion---Jin plain language, unemploy­ment. These are the victims of the motor car. Horse-power was wonder­ful, when only horses had it !

If the 1,328 cases were disposed of forthwith, and assuming the verdict in each case was, say, $10,000, a sum of $13·3 million would be injected into the community, instead of being locked up as it is now. Plainly, these people are being denied their rights. What is the remedy? A number of judges ought to be appointed now to deal with these cases. The probJem cannot be solved by increasing the jurisdiction of the County Court. The delay in the County Court is

The Ron. J. W. Galbally.

increasing month by month. The answer again is not to create ad hoc bodies, Government boards and the like and to shuffle the people off by having them dealt with in that fashion. These people have the right to justice according to law.

The Government has a duty to appoint the necessary judges and provide the other facilities to enable the system to work. Whether the Government thinks that if it does not let the system work a remedy will become available by replac­ing the courts with something else, I do not know. I assure the House that I do not think the Government would contemplate anything like that. It is unthinkable to deny the people access to the law courts. This process has been going on for some time and the delays are mounting. What other judgment can one make?

There is an understandable and widespread sympathy for State Gov­ernments with impoverished trea­suries turning greedy eyes towards Canberra where money is virtuaIJy " running out of their ears". It would be hard to cast the jovial Sir Henry Bolte as the Biblical Lazarus. But certainly Mr. McMahon would only have to discard his squash racquet to fit into the part of Dives and the rich man's banquet. The truth must be faced that the administration of justice, unlike the building of schools, hospitals and other public works, does not call for a vast expenditure of money. The cost of the appoint­ment of judges and magistrates is not heavy and from the point of view of getting the comunity moving, the injection into the community of the moneys that I have spoken of would stimulate our economy.

These delays in the law are as exaspera ting as they are unnecessary. The victims of car accidents, the widow, the families of those who are lying week after week, year after year in hospital; the victims of the terrible warfare that is going on daily on the roads, the person with brain injury, the quadriplegic; the victims of industrial machines, where disaster

Law [7 MARCH, 1972.] Department. 3871

when it happens is widespread and calamitous; these are the forgotten people in so far as the law offers a remedy but postpones its fulfilment.

In the divorce jurisdiction for March, there is a total of just under 2,000 cases. Many of these are undefended and will no doubt be disposed of in a reasonable time. But the delays in the defended lists are lengthy-up to two years. The delays in these cases are causing a great deal of human misery not only for the parties but also for their children. It is quite wrong that custody matters -which must now be heard with the divorce-should be delayed for two years or more. It is equally wrong that fathers should be able to avoid their obligations to their children over these lengthy periods. It is true that interim orders can be ob­tained, but usually only after three or four months' delay. But because on an application for an interim order being made the setting down is cancelled, these applications are avoided except in the most desperate circumstances.

In the workers compensation jurisdiction, the number of cases awaiting hearing in November last year was approximately 3,000. A large proportion of these were uncontested, and I hope they will be disposed of speedily. The delay in the contested cases is now thirteen to fourteen months. I should add that it has been reduced from approximately eighteen or nineteen months, but it is still a long delay. The people are the victims of the industrial machine.

With regard to Magistrates Courts, all honorable members have read the comments by the Chief Stipendiary Magistrate concerning the accumula­tion of work and the necessity for appointing additional magistrates in the courts. I have no figures avail­able for the House, but honorable members may be assured that the Chief Stipendiary Magistrate is a man of wide experience and can be assumed to know what he is talking about.

In debating the motion, I do not intend to embark upon a lengthy dis­cussion of the criminal jurisdiction. However, on 31st August, 1971, there were awaiting trial in Melbourne persons who had been committed for trial more than three years before. The authority for that statement is an answer by the Attorney-General to a question in another place. Many others had been awaiting trial for two years. I do not wish the House to misunderstand me. Of course, these people were on bail, but it is not in the interests of justice that people should be awaiting trial for so long. The wrongdoer should be brought to justice and the innocent should be freed as soon as possible.

The achievement of justice is an endless and, one might say, futile hope of humanity, but the price of it, like liberty, is eternal vigilance kept alive by the haunting fear of injustice, mostly to ourselves-it could happen to us.

Of course, I make no charge that the Government has been tampering with the law courts or interfering with the processes of the law. ThEl Government's sin is one not of com­mission but of omission. The Govern­ment has chosen to neglect the administration of justice and to deprive people of reasonable access to the courts of the land. By right. the citizen must always have reason· able access to the courts. The right is gradually disappearing under this Government. Once the people's faith in the law is destroyed, there is nothing left.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) .-1 would paraphrase slightly one of the latter paragraphs of Mr. Galbally's remarks and agree with him that the pursuit of justice is an endless road; the farther we advance along it, the more the horizon appears to recede or at least remain as far away. This is inevitable in a community where our social conscience is, I hope, con­tinually advancing, because more and more we demand higher standards.

3872 Law [COUNCIL.] Department.

We never reach the goal; we can never hope to reach the ultimate. What we can expect any Government to do is to move forward and progress towards it. Mr. Galbally's motion denies that progress has been made because he alleges a continuing deterioration of the Victorian legal system.

In speaking to the motion, Mr. Galbally referred to one aspect, namely, delays in the courts, but he has chosen to frame his motion at large and to refer to a deterioration of the legal system as a whole. I propose to demonstrate the progress that has in fact been made. The Government has swept away the cob­webs from musty files left by previous Governments in countless pigeon­holes and instituted a vast new pro­gramme of law reform of a kind which has placed Victoria in the forefront of Australia and the English-speaking world.

In its earliest days, the Govern­ment, removed a number of the old strictures on limitation of actions which only had the effect of depriv-

. ing people of their legal rights. The Government removed the protection granted to the Crown against claims at civil law. A new Children's Courts Bill was introduced and a revised and more up-to-date version is currently under way. The jury system was brought up to date and for the first time in Australia women were allowed to sit on juries. The Hire-Purchase Act was rewritten and has been continually revised. There was also a consolidation of the statutes and a simpler form of re­printing was introduced. The amend­ments to the Sale of Land Act were a major step in affording protection to purchasers of land in this State. Mr. Galbally well knows, as does every lawyer, the benefits and the protection that this has granted to the public of Victoria.

In the field of consumer legislation, many Bills have been introduced, commencing in 1963 with the Door to Door (Sales) Act, which has since

The Hon. A. J. Hunt.

been updated on a number of occa­sions. In the field of maintenance, Mr. Galbally has mentioned the difficulties of custody. Advances were made in the law and Victoria led the way in bringing about uniform legislation throughout Australia, which has obviated many of the frustrations, delays and difficulties which previously existed in this field.

However, I believe certain other aspects were even more important. Mr. Galbally has charged that the processes of the law are being denied to those who need its protection most. On the contrary, exactly the opposite is the case. Every honor­able member knows of the establish­ment of the Appeal Costs Fund and the Legal Aid Bureau. The existence of the fund has enabled citizens to take appeals or defend appeals without the fear of a crippling debt, which previously prevented them from doing so. The Legal Aid Bureau has extended legal aid to vast numbers of people who could not previously qualify for assistance from the Public Solicitor. In turn, the existence of the legal aid scheme has enabled the Public Solicitor to be relieved of a vast body of work which he formerly undertook, to be­come more efficient and to assist those who need help most to a much greater degree than previously. I should like to pay tribute to the legal profession for its participation in the legal aid scheme.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-I was wondering if that was where the pro­blem was.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I will come to the point raised by Mr. Swinburne. The legal profession has contri­buted greatly to the success of the legal aid scheme. Solicitors initially, and barristers too, were prepared to volunteer their ser­vices for a negligible return but the success of the scheme has enabled them to obtain some remuneration. Nevertheless, the profession has free­ly volunteered its services to assist those who do not have the means to meet the ordinary legal costs.

Law [7 MARCH, 1972.] Department. 3873

This of itself-Mr. Swinburne by in­terjection was right on the point­has meant that vastly more people can have their cases presented or can be defended in criminal cases. It has also meant that an increased number of cases are coming before the courts. Rather than justice being denied or the processes of the law being denied, as Mr. Galbally charged, because legal assistance is being made available more people are being represented in court, and cases obviously properly presented take longer than those presented by a complainant, a claimant, or a defen­dant in person. That of itself has been a major factor in the increase in the business of the courts. I have indicated that the increased popu­lation and the greater availability of legal assistance to the needy have contributed to the increase in busi­ness of the courts.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVlcH.-The proportion of the increased assistance to the needy would be infinitesimal.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The pro­portion is very great. Indeed, the figures show that the average length of cases in the Supreme Court is substantially greater than it was some time ago. I believe this is one of the major reasons.

What has been done to meet this increase in business? During the life of this Government, the number of magistrates has been increased from 35 to 53, the number of County Court judges from 9 to. 24 - al­most trebled-the number of judges in the workers compensation juris­diction from 1 to 3 and the number of Supreme Court judges from 10 to 17. At the same time, the burden upon the Supreme Court has been reduced by increasing the jurisdic­tion of the County Court to keep pace with decreased value of money.

Inevitably, there are delays. This is perhaps concomitant with a system where many people resort to their legal rights, as indeed they should as Mr. Galbally suggested. The Government believes they should

be assisted to do this, and this has been the whole purpose of the legis­lation providing for legal aid and the setting up of the Appeal Costs Fund.

I should like to turn to other as­pects of the Victorian legal system and the administration of jus­tice throughout the whole field, and to direct the attention of the House to the major and sweep­ing changes which have been made and which are to the clear benefit of the public. The Govern­ment has alleviated the pOSition of widows whose husbands leave them unprovided for or who die without leaving a will. It has also attended to the problems of wives who find, when a dispute occurs within the marriage, that the house is in the husband's name. Formerly, a wife in this posi­tion had no claim, but under amend­ments to the married wo.men's prop­erty Act, which were agreed to by all parties in this House, she now has certain rights. The Government has also made it easier for young people to execute wills, to purchase homes and to obtain finance.

Sweeping changes have been effec­ted to the Police Offences Act, the Companies Act and legislation of every description to protect the citi­zen. Furthermore, the Government has introduced legislation concerning the securities industry.

It has also simplified procedures in Magistrates Courts. The first stage was a completely new Bill which was introduced last ses­sional period. There is a new system under way upon the recommendation of the Statute Law Revision Commit­tee which will substantially reduce the time of hearing in committal pro­ceedings and reduce delays in Magi­strates Courts. The Statute Law Revision Committee has been busier than ever before on a non-political, non-party basis with measures refer­red to it by the Government. The committee's work has been supple­mented by studies of extreme value undertaken by the Chief Justice's Law Reform Committee which has led to legislation being introduced

3874 Law [COUcNCll...] Department.

into this House. The Government took the lead in the establishment of standing committees. This action has led to many law reforms being intro­duced, not only in this State but throughout the Commonwealth, and this work is continuing.

On the administrative side, every country member knows of the pro­gramme for the construction of mod­em and up-to-date court houses which will help to facilitate the pro-. per conduct of business in rural areas. A new County Court building has been constructed in Melbourne where conditions are vastly better than they were previously. The Coroners Court and the Children's Court have also been rebuilt.

The Hon. R. J. EooY.-What about the Magistrates Courts in metro­politan municipalities?

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-Mr. Eddy cannot expect the Government to do everything; there is a shortage of finance for the rebuilding of courts.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-The House is debating a motion concern­ing delays, not buildings.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-There are questions of priority involved and Mr. Eddy interjected on the construction of court buildings. These facts are sufficient to indicate that far from there being a deterioration in the Vic­torian legal system, the Govern­ment's record in the administration of justice and the legal system as a whole has been one of solid and con­structive progress. Nevertheless, I accept the criticism made by Mr. Galbally that delays have not been overcome. I have given a partial reason for this in that despite the in­crease in the number of judges, de­lays have continued because of the increase in business occasioned by the Government's policy of affording expert assistance to those who need it.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-That does not apply in the civil jurisdiction.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The ap­pointment of additional members of the judiciary at all levels is constant­ly under review. The number of judges has been repeatedly increased and the Government will continue to make further appointments, as and when it is possible, in the light of funds available and having regard to the over-all priorities for the alloca­tion of funds.

Mr. Galbally has indicated that it would be unthinkable to deny people access to the courts and he has said quite frankly, and I thank him for it, that he does not believe that is the objective of the Government. I can assure him that the objective of the Government is the same as his. All parties will approach this subject on a non-political basis to ensure that the system works in the interests of the citizens of this State as a whole and to ensure that the citizens' rights are protected in the system of justice under which we operate.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) .-Mr. Gal­bally has moved an interesting and wide motion covering the adminis­tration of justice in this State. He has based his case on the effects caused by the fact that insufficient judges, especially in the Supreme Court, are available to try the cases set down for hearing. I listened with interest to the comments of the Minis­ter for Local Government, who gave the House the history of what has been done by the Government. The Government has endeavoured to over­come the problems, but as Mr. Gal­bally has pointed out, it still has not been completely successful and this appears to be the present position. Members representing country areas are not faced with this problem because it appears, from the inform­ation I have been able to obtain since members of the Country Party received notice of this motion, that most country courts are up to date with hearing cases and in some areas are only one circuit behind. Generally, all cases are completed within six months.

Law [7 MARCH, 1972.] Department. 3875

One of the causes of delay is the large number of cases resulting from motor car accidents. For an answer to how this delay is to be overcome, I look to the chairman and members of the Road Safety Committee and the measures passed by Parliament over the past two or three years to reduce the accident rate. The problem in the courts might eventually be solved by the introduction of legisla­tion that will bring about a reduction in road accidents, thereby causing a reduction in motor accident claim cases. However, as one who travels the highway fairly regularly, I wonder whether human nature will ever be controlled by laws of the land. This appears to me to be the big problem that confronts us. Until there is a substantial reduction in motor car accidents, there will continue to be a demand for access to the courts to settle the very vexed problem of what a person is entitled to under third-party and comprehensive insur­ance policies.

Every time a motorist travels on the road he carries with him a real responsibility, not only to himself but also to his passengers and the occup­ants of other cars with which he may come in conflict. Considerable time elapses before a case is pre­sented to the court. Firstly, the victim has to wait to determine whether his injuries will result in a 'permanent or a temporary affliction or whether the results are sufficiently serious to warrant taking further action. In some cases two or three years elapse before a writ is issued against an insurance company or .against the driver responsible for the· accident. There can then be a further long delay before the case is called on for hearing. Having been a witness in a motor car accident case, I know the procedure. It was some four years after the accident to which I was a witness before the case finally was heard in a country court. With the delay that is occurring in Mel­boume, one could probably become old before the case came before the 'court. This is tragic because many of these people are in a very low mental

condition. Many of them are seriously injured and their families are trying to carryon until the problem has been straightened out.

One of the problems in country areas is that a big percentage of cases which come before the court are handled by the State Motor Car Insurance Office, which has a policy of not using country solicitors or barristers for the presentation of its cases. It briefs metropolitan barristers, who go to the country courts to present cases when they are called on. This means additional expense for the litigants, and more use should be made of the many country solicitors and barristers who are competent per­sons in this field. Certain country solicitors specialize in motor car accident litigation and they could present cases competently.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL.-The fees charged by country solicitors and bar­.risters may not be as high, either.

The Hon. 1. A. SWINBURNE.-I am not dealing with fees, as they are set by the organization to which all solicitors contribute. What I am concerned with is that a city barrister may wait in a country town for a fortnight for one case to be called on and during that period he incurs expenses which have to be paid by someone. The bulk of those expenses is paid by you, Mr. Presi­dent, and me and John Citizen as part of our motor vehicle insurance premiums. Surely the Government could attempt to reduce the cost of the legal service that is provided. Much of the blame must come back to the State Motor Car Insurance Office, which should be instructed by the Government to reduce its costs by briefing country barristers for cases heard in country courts instead of engaging city barristers at great expense. I may be on dangerous ground with the legal fraternity in the House in making that suggestion.

3876 Law [COUN~.J Department.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLy.-Not at all, but where are these barristers in the country?

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.­There are some who practise in the country, but I suppose like every other profession most of them come to the honey pot, which appears to be in Melbourne, and so get the bene­fit of higher fees.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-I know some magnificent country advocates.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-I have no doubt there are competent men in most country areas. However, a complicated case could arise in which a city barrister should be briefed. Six months ago I dis­cussed a complicated case with Mr. Galbally and in such a case one probably has to get a man who is most competent to argue the case before the court. In the majority of cases involving motor car accidents a country barrister would be able to assist in assessing where the blame lies and what the judgment should be.

Members of the Country Party do not intend to support the motion, the wording of which is so wide that there could be misinterpretation of what is meant to be achieved, and we do not want to be misunderstood. We agree with Mr. Galbally that justice should be given speedily, not only in the civil administration but also in the criminal jurisdiction where some persons are held for long periods on remand. At present some members of the community are detained on remand because no one is prepared to bail them out or the court will not grant bail. These per­sons are forced to remain in custody for a considerable period before their cases are heard. My party believes that justice should be dis­pensed as quickly as possible.

Perhaps delays could be overcome by appointing additional judges. Per­haps there are not enough courts. Honorable members are aware that on occasions there has been difficulty in providing court accommodation

and that a Royal Commission has had to use a building in one of the nearer suburbs. This raises the question of what should be done first. Should additional courts be provided or should judges sit in suburban courts? I suggest that the Government should seriously exam­ine the problem of these delays. It should take up with the State Motor Car Insurance Office the number of cases handled by that organization and whether some of them should be referred to country barristers and solicitors.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-1 am sorry that Mr. Swinburne has indicated that his party does not intend to support the motion. 1 was under the impression that all honorable members were in agreement on this matter and that if the motion were carried it would not be regarded as a censure of the Government but simply an admission of facts that exist.

The Minister for Local Government answered the points raised by my Leader by recapitulating fifteen years of administration by his Government, but whatever the Gov­ernment has done has been matched by the legal reforms instituted in other States. Without doubt much of the legislation introduced by this Government would have been applied irrespective of what Government was in power.

It is my privilege to be a member of the Statute Law Revision Committee and I commend the Government on the operations of that committee. Much of the controversy has been removed by the careful handling of legislative proposals by this commit­tee to ensure that the Bills will be unanimously supported in this House and in another place.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The vast bulk of the committee's recommenda­tions have been fully implemented.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-That is so, but the Government cannot take most of the credit for this. I can

Law [7 MARCH, 1972.] Department. 3877

recall my Leader saying tha t certain company malpractices existed in this State and at that time the late Leader of the Government in this House said, "Give us the facts". It was only when some of these mal­practices were pin-pointed and brought to light that the Government had the Companies Act amended. I do not think the Government can take much credit for that action.

The Government was also shamed into taking action on legislation dealing with consumer protection. In fact, the Government was embarrassed by the sacking of the chairman of the then Consumers Protection Council, who had been most critical of the Government be­cause of its failure to take action on these matters. The legislation now operative in that field still has few teeth.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Mr. Tripovich is getting slightly away from the terms of the motion, which concerns the deteriora­tion of the Victorian legal system. The honorable member is referring more to legislation rather than deal­ing with the proceedings of the courts.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.­With respect, Mr. President, I thought the terms of the motion were a little wider than that.

The PRESIDENT.-The terms of the motion are fairly wide.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-The provisions of the existing consumer protection legislation are not very strong, with the result that organiza­tions operating in other States are still able to extract from ordinary working people in Victoria certain moneys which have been well earned by them.

A former member for Bendigo Province, Mr. Smith, strongly sup­ported the establishment of additional workers compensation boards and, perhaps, I may humbly refer to my own efforts in this direction. I have asked a number of questions in the House concerning the establishment

of additional workers compensation boards and Mr. Knight also' has referred to the backlog of claims in this jurisdiction. The Labor Party has also attempted to show the Gov­ernment that the establishment of additional boards is not the answer to the payment of compensation in cases of need, such as deserted wives or the dependent family of a wage earner who is prevented from earn­ing an income. This is a social ser­vice matter which ought to be dealt with on another basis, but the Government has not taken much notice of the Opposition's views on the point.

I commend the Government on the distance it has come in assisting deserted wives, but there is room for much improvement in legislation on this subject. More than 17,000 of these unfortunate women are now registered, but I venture to suggest that there would be another 17,000 who will not openly admit that their marriages have broken up and that they are forced to work to provide for themselves and their families-in some instances doing two jobs­rather than to accept assistance available under social service legis­lation.

The Minister for Local Govern­ment was quite frank when replying to the points raised by my Leader, and I commend him for it. The hon­orable gentleman said that justice delayed was justice denied. In approximately ten minutes, the Minister recapitulated what the Gov­ernment has done over a period of fifteen years. The criticism which is now being directed at the Govern­ment arose from questions asked by the Leader of the Opposition in another place. The answers given to those questions were publicized in the press. Basically, they indicated tha t 50 cases under remand were carried over in the Supreme Court from 1968. Of those cases, in addi­tion to those which came into the courts during 1969, 22 cases were carried over to 1970, and 17 cases were carried over from 1970 to 1971, but by October, 1971, the number of

3878 Law [COUNCIL.] Department.

cases had increased to 39. In the County Court, 369 cases were carried over from 1968, whilst 443 cases were carried into 1970. At October, 1971, there were 654 cases outstand­ing, and 751 cases were carried into 1972.

The Minister attempted to argue that much of the delay was due to the provision of legal aid to eligible persons thus giving them access to legal action in justification of their rights.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-SO they should.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-I question that. Recently three articles appeared in the Melbourne Age on the subject "Slow Justice in Vic­toria ". They were written by Kevin Childs. I shall not recapitulate the articles, but they indicated that the process of justice in this State was very slow, particularly over the Christmas holiday period. At that time a person taken into custody may be placed in the remand yard at Pentridge Gaol because he is unable to meet bail. He may stay there for some weeks, even months, and it could be February or March before he appears before the court. Then he may be found not guilty, which is not unusual. If a prosecution is not proceeded with, a nolle pro­sequi is entered. There is a con­siderable number of these cases.

A person who is able to provide bail is not taken into custody and retains his freedom, but it is a differ­ent matter for the person taken into custody. This question has been raised before in the House during the debate on a private member's Bill, but the Government will take action only after it has been jostled again and again by agitation from this side of the House, or from the Country Party. No Government can be proud of this sort of action.

I do not wish to go deeply into matters which concern the speeding up 'of cases before the courts, parti­cularly in regard to the taking of evidence, and so on.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The Statute Law Revision Committee has made valuable recommendations on that subject, all ,of which are to be implemented.

The Hon. J. M. TR'IPOVICH.-It is sincerely hoped that they will be implemented.

This matter has been raised today in the interests of many people who are suffering injustice because of the failure of the courts to handle their cases with the speed which would afford justice to them. That is the basis of the Opposition's case. The Minister has stated that the Gov­ernment has done its best, but I ask the Government to have a further look at the matter because of the considerable number of injustices that remain.

Mr. Swinburne has stated that not many of these delays occur in country areas. The unfortunate position is that, despite the denial of the Minis­ter for State Development, reported in the press this' morning, more and more people are drifting to the cities. There is not only a growing con­centration of people in the larger country towns, to the detriment of smaller towns, but also a con­centration of people in Melbourne which is of considerable detriment to the larger country centres. The growth rate in the north-western part of the State is 2 per cent, which is low 'wh~n compared with Mel­bourne's 19 per cent.

Perhaps I do not need to draw the attention of the Government to con­ditions prevailing in the remand yard at Pentridge Gaol. Any first offender who has been picked up by the police and placed in the remand yard must have fear and dread for his physical well-being and he may spend seven or fourteen days in this dreadful place.

. The Labor Party considers that the points raised in this debate are suf­ficient to justify this motion of censure. Despite the considerable progress that has been made, there is

Law [7 MARCH, 1972.] Department. 3879

sufficient evidence that the Govern­ment has made no more progress than has been made in other States by Governments of a different charac­ter. There may be times when Gov­ernments can be incapacitated for short periods, but in those times p~blic servants carry on their duties wIth great credit to themselves and perhaps, to the Government which i~ responsible for their actions. The Labor Party believes that the Govern­ment, which is responsible for policy, should be more forward-looking on certain aspects of the law The points raised by Mr. Galbally ar~ sufficient to indicate to the Govern­ment that more is to be expected from it in the future than has been seen to happen in the past. I support the motion.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY (East Yarra Province) .-Mr. Galbally has moved "That the Council do now adjourn" and said that he proposed to speak on the subject of " the grave and continuing deterioration of the Victorian legal system" . In fact, honorable members have heard from ~r. G~lbally and Mr. Tripovich a diSCUSSion on delays in courts, but the motion as it is phrased is so much wider than the mere question of delays in the courts that this House must reject the motion on the basis of what has been put before it. The legal system is much more than just courts. To start with it is the ~aking of the law which pro­vIdes the foundation of the com­munity's workings, and it is the administration of the law which is laid down in the statutes-admini­stration through the courts, through law-enforcement agencies dealing with people who break the laws in criminal matters or the enforcement of judgments of the court in civil m~tter.s. All of those comprise the VictorIan legal system. Without any doubt, the Victorian legal system taken as a whole, is as strong today as it has ever been, and perhaps stronger, principally as a result of the many things which have been done by this Government in the past fifteen or sixteen years.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.­Mr. Storey is not talking to an elec­tion meeting now!

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.-I appreciate that.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVIcH.-Have a look at some of the law reforms in New South Wales.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.-I invite Mr. Tripovich to examine some of the law reforms which have occurred in Victoria, because there has been an extraordinary number over the past few years. The Minister for Local Government has already told honorable members about some of these matters.

The discussion has been directed principally to delays, and I join with Mr. Galbally, Mr. Tripovich, Mr. Swinburne and the Minister for Local Government in regretting that there are delays in the courts because it is clear that people should be able to have justice administered as soon as possible. But it is not always possible to have a legal system and a system of courts which can give instant justice. There are all sorts of reasons why people are not ready to have their cases determined or heard, even when the court is ready to deal with them. There has been a tremendous growth-a doubling­of population in this State in the past twenty years. This must bring with it much more work in the courts which has to be dealt with by the legal system.

As the Minister for Local Govern­ment pointed out, in the period that this Government has been in power the number of Supreme Court judges has increased to seventeen. The total number of judges who have ever sat on the Supreme Court of Victoria during the 120-odd years that the court has been functioning is 51, and more than half of those 51 have sat during the past fifteen years.

The 'Hon. A. J. HuNT.----One-third of them are sitting currently.

3880 Law [COUNCIL.] Department.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­That is so. I have appeared before more than half of the judges who have ever sat on the Supreme Court of Victoria, and I am sure Mr. Galbally has appeared before many more of them. So over these years there has been a considerable growth in the legal system to deal with the large increase in business. The Government does not dispute that there have been delays.

Changes have occurred in the type of litigation before the courts. As has been mentioned, there has been a big increase in motor car accident work, which was not predominant in the courts fifteen or twenty years ago but which is predominant today. A number of streamlined procedures have been introduced to deal with this situation. The old system of calling jurors has been changed. There are now jury pools and a com­puterized system for summoning jurors.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVlcH.-One thousand jurors were called on one day and none was needed for jury service.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­If that occurred, I agree that it was not a successful day. I imagine that was during the trial period of the computer.

One of the difficulties in summon­ing jurors is that people settle cases out of court. They decide not to go on, and the court might have listed four cases for hearing on one day and called suffi­cient jurors to deal with those cases. If all four cases are settled the court is left with no work on that day. The alternative would be to call everybody to court on the one day and take whichever case was ready to proceed, but that would be an in­tolerable burden on witnesses and parties, including doctors and others, all of whom would have to wait on the offchance that the court could deal with the case in which they were involved. The hearing might occupy a considerable time, and all of those people would have to wait. This is

one of the problems of the system which necessarily means that only a certain number of cases can be listed for a period of time, and this leads to delays.

The Hon. R. J. EDDY.-Mr. Storey has not told the House how the Gov­ernment intends to overcome the backlog.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­I was in the course of outlining the steps which have been taken.

The jury system has been changed. Masters of the Supreme Court have been appointed, in addition to judges, to deal with procedural matters which used to take up the time of judges so that the judges are available more often to hear major cases. A system of certificates of readiness for trial has been instituted to try to rationalize proceedings so that cases are not set down until they are ready. Settle­ments occur and some people are not ready to go on at the appointed time. In some cases, plaintiffs' injuries are not stabilized or they may have been thought to be stabilized and then a new aspect is revealed. It is not uncommon for a case to be ready to proceed and then an up-to-date medical examination of the plaintiff reveals a new aspect which requires a specialist of a different persuasion and the case is adjourned.

All of these are an inevitable part of the system and do lead to some delays. There is also the unavaila­bility of witnesses who are needed, and some persons may not want a case to go on for a particular reason. The figures quoted by Mr. Galbally and Mr. Tripovich do not reveal the true situation. I have forgotten the number of cases Mr. Galbally men­tioned.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-I think it is much worse than we made out.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-It was 751 in the County Court this year.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­Would every one of those cases be ready to proceed if the Government

Law [7 MARCH, 1972.] Department. 3881

provided sufficient judges and courts today? In many cases the plaintiff or the defendant would not be ready, some witnesses would be unavailable, or for various other reasons the cases could not proceed.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALL Y.-There are 1,300 cases in the Supreme Court all certified ready to go on. The answer to that is to hear 80 of them in the next three months!

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­Mr. Galbally knows that although a case is certified as being ready to go on, it might not be ready when it is called on for hearing. That happens.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.­Mr. Storey should hear what the judges say about that.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­I have heard some of them. If a person falls ill or something else happens the case cannot proceed. Delays certainly occur, and there are many reasons for them, but they are only part and parcel of the system.

Mr. Tripovich mentioned several Inatters of law reform, and referred to consumer protection. The Govern­ment has sponsored some legislation dealing with this subject. Today, the Attorney-General announced that he has received a report on fair consumer credit laws from a com­mittee of the Law Council of Aus­tralia commissioned by the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General. The report deals fully with many matters of consumer protection and consumer credit. It is this sort of positive action by the Government-commis­sioning such reports and then seeking to implement them-which keeps the legal system of this State within safe limits.

Mr. Tripovich also mentioned workers compensation. In fact, a committee consisting of a judge or judges of the Workers Compensation Board, employer and employee representatives and representatives of the three parties in this Parliament, has been working for a year on the question of workers compensation.

Would Mr. Tripovich have the Government rush in a Bill rather than wait for the report from this non­political committee, which no doubt will suggest ways of improving the administration of the workers com­pensation system? Again, this indicates the strength of the Vic­torian legal system.

The sitting was suspended at 6.26 p.m. until 8.4 p.m.

The Hon. HADDON STOREY.­Prior to the suspension 'Of the sitting I referred to two aspects of law reform that were mentioned by Mr. Tripovich. One was consumer reform, and I hope Mr. Tripovich and other members of the House have seen tonight's Herald, which contains num'erous references to the report which has just been made. This is one of the new fields of Government activity in which one would expect that the Government would consider carefully what is the best rem'edy before it attempted to deal with the problem.

Mr. Tripovich commented on an article in the Age of 15th Septem­ber, 1971, stating that 1,000 people reported for jury service at the County Court on one day. I have made some inquiries and I am in­formed that for criminal juries in the County Court the largest number of persons who turned up on any one day in August was 146, and for civil juries the relevant number was 42. If this occurred on the same day, it would mean that a maximum of only 188 persons were required to report for jury service on one day. It appears that the informant of the writer of the article in the Age is mistaken. I am also informed that the figures of 146 and 42 reporting for jury service are the appropriate figures for the number of cases which were listed for hearing on the days in question.

The effect of legal aid was men­tioned during the debate. By inter­jection, Mr. Tripovich put to Mr. Hunt that legal aid would account for the delay in only a small number of

3882 Law [COUNCIL.] Department.

cases. The figures indicate the effect of the new legal aid system on the administration of the law. It is a very desirable effect in that many more people are now able to litigate their problems in the courts. In the year 1969-70 approxi­mately 3,500 persons applied for and were granted legal aid by the com­mittee. In the year 1970-71 the number of applications rose to 5,142. In the year 1971-72, which of course is not yet completed, the estimated number of persons who will obtain legal aid, based on figures to date, is 7,200. In the two years from 1969-70 to 1971-72 the numbers have doubled, and approximately 7,000 applicants a year are now being granted legal aid by the committee. This must quite properly have a substantial effect on the number of persons who go to court. The legal aid system is an example of a scheme which the Gov­ernment assists, and might help to explain some of the delays in the court processes.

What is the remedy? The main problem that has been raised during the debate is that of jury trials for motor car accident cases. This problem is being encountered world-wide with the increased use of motor cars. It is not enough to say that more judges should be appointed to deal with them. It is a social problem which requires a great deal of analysis to find the best solution. Perhaps the best solution is to have more judges, but other States of Australia and other countries in the world have tried other solutions and the Government is aware of this. This matter clearly has been examined by the Government, the Law Institute and the Bar Council, not only of Victoria, but of the other States of Australia. It is not a simple problem; it must be resolved with care be­cause of the social consequences involved in the tragic loss of life and limb which occurs in road accidents.

One cannot just discard this prob­lem and say that it can easily be over­come by creating new courts. If the problem could be solved by the establishment of new courts, it would

The Hon. Haddon Storey.

have been solved in Victoria because the Victorian Government has, in fact, built a new County Court building at a cost of $4·8 million. This has enabled more sittings in the Supreme Court because that building has now been vacated by the County Court. This has made a considerable differ­ence to the number of cases dealt with. A new Supreme Court build­ing would involve immense expense. Some ideas have been examined for extending the Supreme Court build­ing by using the site of the old Law Department building across the lane, but if that were done it would cost in the region of $5 million. That would provide a few extra courts, without which one cannot have the judges, the associates to go with the judges, the facilities for juries and all the other necessary paraphernalia which is part and parcel of the legal­ing by extending the old law system. Mr. Galbally said that it would not cost much to have a few more judges in the community. He overlooked the necessity of finding accommodation for the judges and providing the services which accom­pany any properly functioning legal system, and this would entail extra expense.

In view of all this, the Govern­ment's record over the years, the close attention it has paid to these problems, the steps it has taken, and the fact that Victoria is con­fronted with a time of change and ferment in social problems, it is impossible to countenance the pro­position that the Victorian legal system is in a state of continuing deterioration. For the reasons I have enumerated, I oppose the motion.

The House divided on the motion for the adjournment of the House (the Hon. R. W. Garrett in the chair)-

Ayes 8 Noes 25

Majority against the motion .. 17

Newmarket Sheep Sales [7 MARCH, 1972.] (Repeal) Bill. 3883

Mr. Eddy Mr. Galbally Mr. Kent Mr. Knight Mr. Tripovich

Mr. Bradbury Mr. Byrne Mr. Chandler Mr. Clarke Mr. Dickie Mr. Dunn Mr. Fry Mr. Granter Mr. Grimwade Mr. Gross Mr. Hamilton Mr. Hauser Mr. Hider Mr. Houghton

Mr. Elliot

AYES.

Mr. Walton.

Tellers: Mr. O'Connell Mr. Thomas.

NOES.

Mr. Hunt Mr. Jenkins Mr. McDonald Mr. Mansell Mr. May Mr. Mitchell Mr. Nicol Mr. Storey Mr. Swinburne.

Tellers: Mr. Campbell Mr. Ward.

PAIR. I Mr. Gleeson.

NEWMARKET SHEEP SALES (REPEAL) BILL.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the Newmarket Sheep Sales Act 1958.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

FAIR CONSUMER CREDIT LAWS. REPORT OF LAW COUNCIL OF

AUSTRALIA.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-By leave, J move-

That there be laid before this House the report of a oommittee of the Law Council of Australia to the Attorney-General for the State of Victoria on fair consumer credit laws.

The motion was agreed to.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) presented

:a report in compliance with the fore­going order.

. It was ordered that the report be laid on the table.

NEWMARKET SHEEP SALES (REPEAL) BILL.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time.

The substantive section of this Bill occupies one line of print. The measure simply seeks to repeal the Newmarket Sheep Sales Act 1958. There is of course nothing to discuss about the Bill; the only thing worth discussing is the Act which this measure seeks to repeal.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-It cannot be worth much if the Govern­ment wishes to repeal it.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-The Government is repealing it because it is not worth a "bumper" now. The Newmarket Sheep Sales Act was originally enacted in 1935 following a Royal Commission. It then met requirements, but it no longer does so. The Act itself contains only four principles. The first is that sheep sales at Newmarket are limited to two days a week-Tuesdays and Thursdays-but there was power to have four extra Friday sales in a year. 1 do not know the reason for that. It is quite clear that the limitation to two specific days without the oppor­tunity of varying them or adding to them creates a degree of unnecessary inflexibility, for it is quite clear that it is much better to hold the sales on the days which are the most suit­able according to need, irrespective of whether they are held on 1, 2, 3 or 4 days a week.

The second principle in the Act is that the Melbourne City Council shall have power to limit the number of sheep to be sold on anyone day and it is faced with an absolute limit of 75,000. This no longer meets present­day requirements, and it is felt that there should be no arbitrary limita­tion on the number of sheep which can be conveniently sold on a par­ticular day.

The third principle contained in the Act is that the Railways Commis­sioners had power in their discretion

3884 Local Government [COUNCIL.] Bill.

to reduce the number of sheep con­signed to Newmarket. That was a sensible provision in the days when sheep were mainly carried by rail, but it is obvious that there is now no need for such a limitation. It is quite clear that the railways can carry all the sheep required to be sent by rail to Newmarket.

The fourth principle was that the Act had to be observed and that any­body who was in breach of it was liable to a fine of ten shillings. Amongst the offences which were punishable by a fine was one that if the sheep were sold without being booked in on the previous day the auctioneer and the seller involved were guilty of a heinous offence. That section has been disregarded almost since its inception, and so far as I can ascertain there has never been a prosecution for a breach of that provision. Obviously it no longer meets current needs.

For all of those reasons, the Vic­torian Farmers Union, the Graziers Association of Victoria, the Newmar­ket Producers Association, the Associated Stock and Station Agents of Melbourne and the Victorian Meat­works Association, have jointly and unanimously sought the repeal of the Act. The Melbourne City Council has agreed that repeal of the Act is· long overdue and the Department of Agriculture has concurred, as have my advisers. In those circum­stances, I commend the Bill to the House with confidence.

On the motion of the Hon. J. M. Walton, for the Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province), the debate

was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, March 14.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT BILL. The House went into Committee

for the consideration of this Bill.

Clause 1, providing, inter alia­(1) This Act may be cited as the Local

Government Act 1971. The Hon. A. J. Hunt.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) .-1 move-

That the expression Ie 1971" be omitted with the view of inserting the expression Ie 1972 ".

This is a formal amendment arising from the fact that the Bill was pre­sented in a different calendar year from that in which honorable mem­bers are now considering it. I take the opportunity of outlining the pro­cedure which I suggest to the Com· mittee might be followed with sub­sequent clauses. When it was decided that the Bill should be com­mitted today, I indicated my willing­ness to discuss proposed amend­ments with representatives of the Labor Party and the Country Partyp upon request. Mr. Mansell and I were able to have discussions on the principles of the amendments to be proposed, but it was only a short time ago that Mr. Mansell saw the precise wording of those amend­ments. Despite attempts that we made today, Mr. Walton and I have not been able to meet for a full discussion of the proposed amend­ments, and Mr. Walton has just now seen the precise wording of them for the first time.

In these circumstances, it is not the Government's intention to press ahead tonight with amendments which either the Labor Party or the Country Party might want to con­sider in further detail. However, I suggest that the Committee deal with as many matters of principle as pos­sible and dispose of amendments where there appears to be a clear agreement or a clear division of opinion. I suggest that, where there appears to be a need for further con­sideration of what is proposed, the relative clause should be postponed.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL (North­Western Province) .-1 do not think there is any immediate hurry to deal with these amendments. It might be better that progress be reported after the Committee has dealt with clause 1. The Bill could be further considered in Committee next week when all parties will have had time to consider the proposed amendments.

Local Government [7 MARCH, 1972.] Bill. 3885

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government).-The sug­gestion that the amendments be con­sidered next week certainly has some appeal. However, 1 felt that the Committee may well have desired an explanation from the Minister on the amendments to assist any detailed consideration later. It would save the time of the Committee if the course suggested by Mr. Mansell were adopted and if it is 1 should be happy to confer with Mr. Mansell and Mr. Walton at a mutually con­venient time. It is only reasonable that they should have an explanation of the detail of the amendments before they are dealt with by the Committee.

The Hon. A. R. MANSELL (North­Western Province) .-1 appreciate what the Minister has said and I still feel it would be bette~ if the Bill were dealt with next week so that the parties can examine the pro­posed amendments. 1 know that members of my party are still receiving correspondence from muni­cipalities on the Bill.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Mel­bourne North Province) .-It is true that 1 have seen the amendments only in the last few minutes. 1 do not want to delay the Bill because it was introduced last year and all honorable members have had a great deal of time to think about it. How­ever, the amendments proposed would considerably alter some of the clauses and I know of no real reason to press ahead with the Bill tonight. It would be better if it were dealt with next week, so that honorable members would have the opportunity of putting the proposed amendments to their respective parties.

The amendment was agreed to, and the clause, as amended, was adopted.

Clause 2 (Amendment of sections 17 and 117 of principal Act).

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) .-As 1 have already indicated, I am happy for progress to be reported if that is the

course desired by those honorable members handling the Bill on behalf of the Labor Party and the Country Party. I take it that both honorable members will want to consider the amendments, most of which arose from the second-reading debate.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Mel­bourne North Province) .-Mr. Chair­man, it is quite customary to allow the Minister to make explanations when the Committee is dealing with clause 2. I do not know whether any honorable member or you, Sir, would object to the Minister's explaining now the amendments he proposes to move.

The CHAIRMAN (the Hon. G. J. Nicol).-I appreciate that it is rather an unusual procedure but, neverthe­less, it probably would facilitate the work of the Committee if, with the consent of the Committee, it were followed.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (Minister for Local Government) .-1 shall explain the purposes of the amend­ments briefly at this stage, leaving further discussion to when the Com­mittee deals with each clause sepa­rately. The amendment to be pro­posed to clause 2 is designed to meet criticisms raised during the second­reading debate. Both the Labor Party and the Country Party under­stood the reasons for the limitation on the right of legal representation before boards of inquiry, which are only recommending bodies and not courts. Nevertheless, there was criticism of the stringency of the provision which required application for the right to appear to be made at least 30 days before the start of a hearing. It is proposed that that provision be amended by deleting that requirement and providing, in­stead, that the application shall be in writing, and giving an indication that it should be made as far in advance of the hearing as possible but, never­theless, allowing it to be made as occasion requires and giving power to the board to grant the application or to refuse it absolutely or condition­ally.

3886 Local Government [COUNCIL.] Bill.

Both the Labor Party and the Country Party agreed that the pro­vision in clause 8 which enabled the establishment of reserve funds from capital moneys received was good. However it is proposed to meet the criticisms of the clause by reducing the amount necessary to establish such a fund and by substantially re­ducing the incremental payments which may be made to it. There is also a verbal amendment proposed to be made to the same clause to sub­stitute the word" fund ", which was used earlier in the clause, for the word "account" which was errone­ously used.

In relation to clause 9, Mr. Mansell asked for power for a country muni­cipality to support tourist resort facilities and bureaux both in its own and in adjacent municipalities where they were of benefit to the municip­ality. The Government agrees that his suggestion is sound. This is ob­viously what is done in many cases. Tourist areas are not confined within the limits of one municipality.

Substantial criticisms were made by Mr. Walton of the wording of clause 11. At a meeting in the coun­try only a few days ago, at which I was present, Mr. Mitchell made some criticism of the clause and I indicated to him then that I would be moving to remove the anomaly created by the phrase "whichever is the less". Ob­viously, it is a phrase which should never have crept into the draft. I believe that the Committee will be virtually unanimous that this should be done. Later in clause 11, it is proposed to add a new sub-clause which is of a transitory nature.

In clause 12, it is proposed to re­move the provisions which require a valuation certificate to set out the date on which the valuation is made, and to substitute a requirement that it shall set out the date as at which the valuation was made. Clearly, that is the relevant factor rather than the date on which the valuation is signed. A valuer makes his valua­tion as at a certain date, although it may be certified sometime later.

The Hon. A. J. Hunt.

The amendment proposed to clause 17 meets another difficulty to which Mr. Mansell drew attention. Mr. Mansell pointed out that, in country municipalities, where roads or bridges were under repair and it was desired to fix a temporary speed limit during the course of repairs, it might be quite impractical to call the council together for that purpose. The Gov­ernment thanks Mr. Mansell for his suggestion and accepts it. It is pro­posed to amend the clause to allow such a limit to be fixed by a municip­ality or an officer of a municipality authorized for that purpose. This will enable a municipality to delegate power for this purpose to its engineer.

There has been an inadvertent omission of two words from clause 27, which appear in the existing section. They are the words "or gear" . Obviously, on scaffolding, gear, which comprises the individual components should be safe and the words "or gear" which have appeared in pre­vious sections will be restored by an amendment to the clause.

In principle, those are the purposes of the amendments which, in all cases, are designed to meet points raised during the second-reading de­bate, and I thank the honorable mem­bers who raised them.

Progress was reported.

ADJOURNMENT. EDUCATION DEPARTMENT: KERANG

HIGH SCHOOL: FOOTSCRAY HIGH SCHOOL: EDEN HOPE HIGH SCHOOL -COUNTRY POPULATION: STATE­MENT BY MINISTER FOR STATE

DEVELOPMENT - DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE: OUTBREAK OF AN­

THRAX.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Miinster of Agriculture) .-By leave, I move-

That the Council, 'at its rising, 'adjourn until Tuesday next.

The motion was agreed to.

Adjournment. [7 MARCH, 1972.] Adjournment. 3887

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-1 move-

That the House do now adjourn.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province) .-1 wish to draw the atten­tion of the Minister of Public Works, representing the Minister of Educa­tion, to an answer which he supplied to me earlier this day regarding the Kerang High School. I asked-

(a) In view of the ;acute shortage of teach­ing staff at the Kerang High School, will the Minister of Education take immediate steps to ensure that the school is staffed on its true basis as a comprehensive school and with due regard to the special claims of the technical components?

The answer to that part of the ques­tion was-

There is no acute shortage of teaching staff at the Kerang High School. The target figure for this school is 42·15 teachers for 882 pupils; the actual staff is 45.

No reference was made in the answer to the fact that the Kerang High School is a comprehensive school. It is a pilot school trying to establish technical education in conjunction with high school education. The tech­nical part of the school is well staffed with the exception of the new tech­nical art section. Members of the technical staff of that school have to take ordinary secondary classes in order to make up the numbers. I have a detailed analysis of the staff at the Kerang High School. It is obvious that one part of the answer relating to the actual staff of 45 is wrong.

The answer relates to gross staff and includes the head of the technical department, the senior teachers, and so on. It is true that the school as a whole is staffed on a target for a high school, but no allowance has been made for the fact that it is a comprehensive school and has com­prehensive classes. In fact it is five teachers short for a comprehensive school, which can be clearly estab­lished from the figures. Is the Educa­tion Department going to kill the con­cept of a comprehensive school which has been going for only two years and has been successful? It has been so successfUl that the enrol­ments have risen by 100 in that time.

People are earnestly seeking technical education in the area and there is no other school between Swan Hill and Echuca, except the Kerang High School, which can give that education. The Education Department went into this project with promises that the school would be developed as a pilot comprehensive school, that it would be encouraged and that its progress would be closely watched. The department has agreed to this new approach and concept but is killing it in its tracks because it has not employed sufficient staff. To employ technical staff to sup­plement the deficiencies in the high school side is a criminal misuse of that staff.

When the department sent an inspector to the school, he acknow­ledged what had happened and his suggestion was to the effect that as too many subjects were being taught the number should be reduced. What has to be cut out? The answer is, of course, the number of technical classes should be re­duced and that will mean that even more technical staff will teach the normal high school classes.

I have written to the Minister on this subject. The department is well aware of the problem. My main objection tonight is that I have asked a question of the Minister and it has not been answered. The issue has been completely evaded and state­ments in the Northern Times from the secondary school inspector bear out what I have said tonight. I can show those statements to the Mini­ster. There is no dispute that, if it is regarded as a comprehensive school, the school is five teachers short. I t is wrong for the Minister to reply that there is no acute shortage of staff at the school when pupils in forms V. and VI. have to be sent home after four days each week, and now it is necessary to send home form II. pupils for one day a week. If tha t does not indicate an acute shortage of

3888 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

staff, I do not know what does. It is ridiculous in this day and age that a high school can be staffed for only four days instead of five days each week. The second part of my question was-

(b) When will a librarian be appointed to this school?

Although 882 pupils attend this school, there is now no librarian. I have been informed that the librarian who was at the school last year was posted to Melbourne to a school which already had four librarians and this appointment made the fifth. The Kerang High School was left without a librarian. I was at the school recently, and I noticed that the library had to be locked because no one was available to staff it. The answer I received was-

(b) When a suitable person becomes available for appointment the vacant position of librarian will be filled.

One would think that a school com­prising an enrolment of 882 pupils would warrant the Education Depart­ment's making some intense effort to find a librarian. But no, the depart­ment is treating it quite casually! The absence of a librarian is a serious matter. I do not know of any school of this size in the State that does not have a librarian. Admittedly, the library is inadequate, but without a librarian it is completely useless for the pupils.

Will the Minister representing the Minister of Education give a com­plete answer to my question? 1 do not expect him to answer it off the cuff because he is not familiar with the situation. The department is familiar with the problem and the inspector has been at the school twice in the past two weks. 1 hope next week to receive a satisfactory answer to the important question 1 have asked.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Mel­bourne West Province) .-1 raise a matter of great concern to the children of my constituents in the western suburbs relating to educa­tion. 1 have listened to Mr. Clarke

speaking on the subject of libraries. The department is using the library at the Footscray High School as a class-room in which to teach children and they have no desks. It ill be­hoves the Government to treat senior students studying for their higher leaving certificate in this way.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-Have they no desks?

The Han. A. W. KNIGHT.-That is so. 1 invite the Minister of Public Works to visit this school. It was established by a former Minister of Education under a Labor Administra­tion. It ill behoves the Minister of Education to permit this situation to exist. The Minister of Public Warks should not interject too much, other­wise 1 shall mention the condition of the school grounds, which leaves a lot to be desired. However, 1 am not permitted to debate that matter on a motion for the adjournment of the sitting. The Liberal Government stands condemned.

The people in the western suburbs have put a lot ·of hard-earned money into the provision of an assembly hall, but the Government cannot arrange even for portable class-rooms in which students can be educated. Immediate action should be taken not only to house the pupils properly but to staff the school adequately, which is four and a half teachers short. How one cuts a teacher in half I do not know; I am amazed. The Teachers Tribunal should not deal in semantics, and its members should go back to school and learn their algebra. So far as I am concerned, if a person is cut in half, he is dead. Half a teacher is a dead person and he cannot teach. Let us get down to practicalities.

I was reprimanded last week, Mr. President, for using an unparlia­mentary expression and I shall not fall into the same error tonight. Therefore, I shall content myself by saying that the children are sitting on their rears in the assembly hafI and the Government should do some­thing about it. Plenty of land is

Adjournment. [7 MARCH, 1972.] Adjournment. 3889

available for portable class-rooms. The Minister of Public Works and the Minister of Agriculture travel along the West Gate Freeway and they ran see this school as they pass. The Footscray City Council would not be backward in ensuring that class­rooms could be erected on the McIvor Reserve, which was named after the Labor stalwart for Gellibrand. Some immediate action should be taken to ensure that the students are taught under good conditions.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL (Western Province) .-1 wish to refer to the Edenhope High School. One must go to that school to see what is happening and what the students must put up with. 1 have received 22 letters expressing concern about the school. The school is short of an English teacher, and there is a total staff shortage of three teachers. There is also a shortage of four class-rooms.

Much has been said tonight about libraries being locked up. The library at this school is used as a class-room, and so is every nook and cranny for the higher school certificate students. It is a disgrace. Typewriters are used in one room and the children are being taught higher school certifi­cate subjects in the storeroom next door. Other pupils are being taught in a corridor, but that is not so bad because they are away from the noise. 1 have not seen anything quite as bad as the conditions in this school ever since I have been in politics. Something must be done quickly or these children will get nowhere in their education. When a school is so understaffed and other schools have sufficient staff, the Education Department should direct a teacher to the understaffed school.

The Goroke Primary School used to take pupils up to grade 8 but grades 7 and 8 pupils are now being sent to Edenhope, which only wor­sens the problem at that school. Many pupils could be taught in pri­mary schools up to grade 8. If this system were adopted, the spread of

teachers could be improved and their services better utilized. It is only common sense to use primary school teachers up to grade 8.

Every day, students are being sent home from the Edenhope High School. It is wrong that matriculation students should be sent home, although with the poor conditions ex­isting at the school perhaps they are better off at home. I appeal to the Minister to do something in this area.

Another matter which I desire to raise is a statement alleged to have been made by the Minister for State Development. 1 trust that the hon­orable gentleman has been mis­quoted. An article appearing in to­day's issue of the Warrnambool Stan­dard states-

The Minister denied yesterday that there was a population drift from country areas to the city.

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE.-That is right; it is not a misquotation.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-The Minister's statement staggers me be­cause population figures for the C.or­angamite, Glenelg, Mallee and Wu~­mera regions, show a decrease In population of 8,358 in the past five years.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-Port­land has grown.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-Main­ly because the Town of Portland has taken over part of the shire. The Minister should not forget that the 22 per cent increase in the population of Portland includes population from the area surrounding the Borthwick meat works and the wool stores. My own area has lost 8,358 people and the Minister for State Development asserts that they have not gone to the city, whereas the population of the Port Phillip region over the same period has increased by 261,356. I cannot follow the Minister's reason­ing.

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE.-There are more people living in the country today than five years ago, as the cen­sus figures prove.

3890 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-I am wondering whether the Minister in­cludes Geelong in the city area. I class the city as being the area out­side of the 50-mile radius from the General Post Office, Melbourne.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! Mr. Mitchell should be permitted to be heard in silence.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-That privilege is never afforded me but it is good because, whenever I speak, at least I have the Ministers on their toes, which is how it should be. Geelong and other places close to Melbourne are growing but country people would class these areas as be­ing within the city area.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-I am wondering how the honorable member relates his re­marks to Government administration.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-I am referring to misstatements by the Minister. The article further states-

There has been movement out of the smaller into the larger country towns, he said. They are not going to Melbourne.

The PRESIDENT.-You are quar­relling with the Minister's statement.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-I am endeavouring to prove that the Mini­ster's statement is false.

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE.-But Mr. Mitchell does not want me to talk like that in country areas.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-The Minister can say what he likes in country areas so long as it is the truth.

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE.-I am tel­ling the truth.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL.-I object to the fact that the Minister is not telling the truth. The article also says-

The Minister said, "Our popul'ation is going ahead in leaps and bounds".

In the four regions within my prov­ince, the population has decreased by 8,358. My authority is the Central

Planning Authority 1971 Census, Regional Population by Municipalities. Perhaps I should provide the Minister with a copy so that he may ascer­tain to what area the people are mov­ing and what is happening in country districts.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD (Northern Province) .-1 refer to the administration of the Department of Agriculture and the threat to human and animal health from the outbreak of anthrax in northern Victoria five or six 'weeks ago. For the first time for a number of years, anthrax was detected in humans and in all eight cases were definitely diagnosed.

I direct the Minister's attention to the matter because the outbreak was caused by poor control being exer­cised over the removal and disposal of dead livestock. In the interim report from the Meat Industry Committee on the pet food industry, which was tabled in Parliament on 28th April, 1971, the committee referred to the important matter of the disposal of dead livestock. To many persons not conversant with the matter, it is not very important. A number of knacker­ies and independent operators collect livestock, mainly cattle, from proper­ties and then use them for the pro­duction of fertilizers and meat meal. Moreover, some of the dead livestock are used in the wholesale and retail' pet food trade. I ask the Minister to indicate the Government's intentions concerning the recommendations of the Meat Industry Committee.

The committee outlined in some detail what was likely to happen and the outbreaks which occurred follow­ing the disposal of dead livestock to a knackery proprietor fully justify the reasoning and the recommenda­tion of the committee. The threat is a threefold one. Firstly, to the live­stock population; secondly, to the human population; and, thirdly, to the export meat trade, which is important to the State.

Adjournment. [7 MARCH, 1972.] Adjournment. 3891

I have been somewhat critical of the Minister and the Government for their inactivity. However, I compli­ment the officers of the Department of Agriculture for their promptness in dealing with this outbreak and other outbreaks of anthrax. Their methods of inoculation and control were first class. The important point, as the committee recommended, is to provide a stricter system of registra­tion and keeping of records so that this sort of outbreak will not occur in future. I should like the Minister either now or at some later stage to outline the Government's intentions in this regard.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture). - The report from the Meat Industry Com­mittee made certain recommenda­tions, one of which was-

That the control and regulation of the pet food industry be undertaken by the Department of Agriculture. As the pet food industry is closely allied with the meat industry in general, and abattoirs in particular, it follows that if, as recom­mended in the Committee's Interim Report on Abattoirs, Meat Inspection and Anunal Health (Victorian Parliamentary Paper D. No.4 Session 1969-70), the Department of Agriculture controls the administration of abattoirs, it should also have control of the pet food industry.

At present, the registration of boiling­down works and knackeries comes under the control of the Department of Health. The Government has practically finalized the preparation of legislation to transfer the control of meat inspection generally from the Department of Health and muni­cipalities to the Department of Agriculture. I had hoped that the Bill would be presented during this sessional period, but this will not be possible. It will certainly be intro­duced in the spring.

Although it is normal to have several cases of anthrax almost every year, the situation in the Echuca area arose from a dead animal which apparently had anthrax being taken from a farm to a boiling-down works where it was handled by human beings. This set in motion a chain of events which became quite a lively

issue in the community, and rightly so. Some aspects of that outbreak were a little different from a normal outbreak because usually, when a farmer finds a dead animal on his pro­perty, as Mr. McDonald would know, he contacts a veterinary officer and officers of the Depart­ment of Agriculture in the area. A formula is set in motion and the whole exercise is controlled­inoculations take place and that kind of thing. When the dead animal went to the boiling-down works, which were controlled by people who, to put it mildly, I believe were a little inexperienced in that particular field~ the cause of death was not ac­curately diagnosed and, unfortun­ately, a chain of events occurred which attracted much publicity.

Other recommendations were made by the committee in its interim report, one being control over the licenSing of pet food shops. That still has to be considered but I hope we can get over the first obstacle. Many details have to be worked out when officers are transferred from the control of the municipalities. They are also registered with the Department of Health. These officers have superannuation rights and clas­sifications which control their salary range, and their rights have to be safeguarded. Details have been finalized and there is currently under preparation a Bill which will be intro­duced in due course.

Another important recommend­ation, from the point of view of the department, is that in the Vic­torian country areas there should be alert veterinary officers and farmers. When an unusual event occurs farm­ers immediately could contact the de­partment's veterinary officers. When there is a dead animal, regardless of what the farmer's suspicions are, he should be able to get a qualified veterinary officer who can proceed to the farm to find out the reason for the death. By doing this early control can be exercised.

3892 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

From information supplied to the department it appears that a number of factors were involved which were not altogether in line with what actually happened. As Mr. McDonald would know, when there is a death of an animal on a farm other animals are immediately inoculated.

The supervision and the inspection of meat will be transferred from the control of the Department of Health to the Department of Agriculture, and I expect also the licensing of pet food shops. Better control will be exer­cised over the way animals are handled when they are dead. Certain records should be kept. It is doubt­ful whether they have been kept accurately in the past and the whole system needs tightening. II cast no reflection whatsoever on the Depart­ment of Health or its officers, but when this control passes to the Department of Agriculture, over the next twelve months there could be a series of Bills introduced which will put the meat industry on an entirely different basis from what it is at pre­sent. The interests of those who pro­duce meat and use meat will be safe­guarded on a much higher plane than at present.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-It would be quite improper for me to join in debate on any of the matters raised on the adjournment motion. Mr. Clarke voiced a complaint about the answers supplied by the Minister of Education to question No. 11 on the Notice Paper today. Mr. Clarke will appreciate that all Ministers in this House represent other Ministers who are in charge of a number of departments and authorities. I was responsible for answering nine questions appearing on the Notice Paper, all of which concerned Government departments. Mr. Clarke's complaint was that the answers given by me on behalf of the Minister of Education were not answers to the questions. I know that Ministers endeavour to vet the

information that is provided and I certainly vetted this answer. I have had an opportunity of looking at it again and in fairness to the Minister of Education and his department, I believe it is an answer. It may not be the answer Mr. Clarke wants. Often honorable members receive an answer tha t they do not want. Sometimes I get an answer from my department that I am not looking for. The answers supplied do answer the questions asked by Mr. Clarke. They may not answer the questions in the way Mr. Clarke wanted.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-It is not the department answering the question.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-As Mr. Galbally knows, the department supplies the factual information and the Minister is responsible for the answer.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY.-The name of the department should never be mentioned.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.­That may be so, but in fairness to the Minister of Education I was satisfied from my reading of the answers today that they answered the questions. Mr. Clarke, in a lengthy discussion during the adT journment debate, put forward a point of view and gave factual figures on the number of teachers and the number of pupils, and sup­plied a factual statement on the appointment of a librarian. All I can do to help Mr. Clarke is to bring to the notice of the Minister of Educa­tion the information that Mr. Clarke has provided, including the informa­tion concerning the aspect of tech­nical education, which is a little unusual, but these are the matters which mainly concern Mr. Clarke. I shall be happy to receive any other information Mr. Clarke has and together with the information pre­sented to the House tonight, I will forward it to the Minister of Educa­tion.

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3893

Mr. Knight raised problems about half a teacher and the assembly hall at the Footscray High School and I must admit that these matters are not known to me personally. SOlne­times when I inquire into these problems I find that they have been attended to and are no longer a problem. I am surprised that there is an assembly hall but no furniture at the Footscray High School and I a.ssure Mr. Knight that I will take up the matter tomorrow morning.

Mr. Mitchell in his usual in1pas­sioned way spoke about the Edenhope High School. Again I have no personal knowledge of these matters but what Mr. Mitchell has said to­night will be conveyed to the Minister of Education and I trust that Mr. Mitchell will get the answer that is desired.

The Hon. V. O. DICKIE (Minister for State Development). - Mr. Mitchell queried the correctness of a statement made by me yesterday which appeared in the press this morning. The statement was to the effect that there was no population drift from the country areas to the city. I desire to provide the House with the figures on which I based Iny statement. There are 210 munici­palities in Victoria of which 48 are within the Melbourne and Metro-

, politan Board of Works planning area and 162 outside that area. The latest Commonwealth census indi­cates that the population of Victoria is 3·5 million. The population of Melbourne-within the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works planning area-is 2· 492 million, and including the Geelong area the country population is 1· 1 million. The current figures were collated on the same basis as the figures in the 1966 census and indicate that the population of the 162 country muni­cipalities has increased by 6,000. I provide that statistical information for the benefit of honorable members. However, I agree that there has been a shift of popUlation within certain regions. The population of Bendigo has risen by 8 per cent; the greater

Session 1972.-137

Ballara t area by 1 . 8 per cent; Wodonga by 22 per cent; Portland­including the town and the shire­by 14 per cent; and Sale by 22 per cent. The Commonwealth census figures indicate that 6,000 more people are living in country areas today than were living there in 1966.

The motion was agreed to.

The House adjourned at 9.25 p.m., until Tuesday, March 14.

mrgislatinr i\sllrmbly. Tuesday, March 7, 1972.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie) took the chair at 2.34 p.m., and read the prayer.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE.

The following answers to questions on notice were circulated:-

ELECTORAL.

ENROLMENTS IN ELECTORATES AND PROVINCES.

(Question No. 739)

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked the Chief Secretary-

What was the last recorded enrolment of voters in each Legislative Assembly eJec­toral district and Legislative Council electoral province?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The answer is-

The schedules which follow indicate the number of voters enrolled as at 31st December, 1971, in each Legislative Council province and Legislative Assembly district.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Enrolment as at 31st December, 1971.

Province Number enrolled

Ballaarat 60,016 Bendigo 63,231 Boronia 164,741

3894 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

Province Number Geelong North 25,539 enrolled Gippsland East 19,394

Doutta Galla 130,538 Gippsland South 20,016 East Yarra 119,517 Gippsland West 18,980 Gippsland 85,888 Gisborne 27,892 Higinbotham 122,661 Glenhuntly 27,928 Melbourne 108,674 Glen Iris 24,183 Melbourne North 111,265 Greensborough 39,870 Melbourne West 135,937 Hampden 17,673 Monash 123,458 Hawthorn 24,595 Northern 60,180 North-Eastern 55.505

Heatherton 35,409

North-Western 47,027 Ivanhoe 26,089

South-Eastern 160,764 Kara Kara 16,391

South-Western 98,683 Kew 25,467

Templestowe 157,400 Lowan 18,335

Western 60,091 Malvern 25,831 Melbourne 24,304

Total 1,865,576 Mentone 27,104 Midlands 22,908

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. Mildura 18,826

Enrolment as at 31st December, 1971. Mitcham 29,701 Monbulk 31,005

District Number Moonee Ponds 24,857 enrolled Moorabbin 27,987

Albert Park 21,733 Morwell

Ballaarat North 24,165 24,046

Ballaarat South 20,301 'Murray Valley 19,975

Balwyn 27,178 Narracan 22,432

Bellarine 26,979 Northcote 23,585

Benalla 18,516 Oakleigh 24,503 Benambra 19,073 Polwarth 18,336 Bendigo 23,714 Portland 18,495 Bennettswood 27,567 Prahran 24,798 Bentleigh 26,317 Preston 24,053 Box Hill 39,467 Reservoir 27,328 Brighton 23,778 Richmond 20,997 Broadmeadows 39,926 Ringwood 34,182 Brunswick East 22,856 Rodney 19,423 Brunswick West 22,384 St. Kilda 25,028 Camberwell 24,203

Sandringham 25,375 Caulfield 26,666 Coburg 22,527

Scoresby 47,875

Dandenong 35,928 Shepparton 20,535

Deer Park 41,032 Sunshine 25,380

Dromana 24,945 Swan Hill 18,580

Dundas 18,000 Syndal 37,169

Essendon 26,626 Warrnambool 19,124

Evelyn 22,206 Williamstown 28,292

Footscray 23,273

Frankston 40,205 Total enrolment 1,865,576

Geelong 23,486

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3895

YOUTH ORGANIZATIONS ASSISTANCE FUND.

ALLOCATIONS IN SUNSHINE

ELECTORATE.

(Question No. 741)

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked the Minister for Social Welfare-

1. What State financial assistance has been given to youth organizations in the electoral district of Sunshine this financial year?

. 2. What financial assistance was sought by the youth organizations ,concerned?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-The answers are-

1 and 2.

The answers are provided in the following table 'and comments:-

Name of organization Amount Amount sought granted

$ $ Sunshine Youth Centre 2,082 200

3rd Sunshine Scout 2,000 2,000 Group

An additional application from the Kingsville Y.M.C.A. was not approved as this centre ceased operation on 31st Decem­ber, 1971.

Some subsidiary grants may flow to groups in the Sunshine electoral district from grants made, as shown, to the following parent bodies:-

1. Baptist Department of Christian Education

2. Boys Brigade H.Q.

3. Girls Brigade H.Q.

4. Churches of Christ D.C.E.

5. Church of England D.C.E.

6. Church of England Boys Society Melbourne Diocese

7. Congregational D.C.E. 8. Girl Guides Association of

Victoria 9. Association of Victorian Jewish

Youth ) O. Lutheran Youth of Vi.ctoria 11. Presbyterian D.C.E.

$ 2,250

800

400

3,700

2,850

2,250 4,850

7,000

100 450

6,900

12. Young Christian Workers (Boys and Girls) H.Qs. ..

13. Salvation Army Youth Depart­ment

14. Boy Scouts H.Q. 15. Victorian Association of Youth

Clubs 16. Y.M.C.A. Melbourne and Metro­

politan Administrative H.Q. 17. Y.M.C.A. Victorian Regional

Council 18. Y.W.C.A. H.Q. 19. Girls' Friendly Society H.Q. 20. Methodist D.C.E.

$ 35,200

2,000 9,000

36,575

4,500

13,250 17,000 1,200 9,000

Total 159,275

UNEMPLOYMENT.

INCIDENCE IN SUNSHINE ELECTORATE:

SOCIAL WELFARE ORGANIZATIONS.

(Question No. 743)

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine) asked the Minister for Social Welfare-

1. If he will ascertain and inform the House- (a) how many males and females, respectively, are registered at the Common­wealth Employment Office at Sunshine as unemployed; (b) how many males and females, respectively, are recorded as receiving unemployment benefits at this office? .

2. What measures have been taken by the Government to create employment opportu­nities in Sunshine?

3. What requests for financial assistance have been received from voluntary social welfare organizations in the electoral dis· trict of Sunshine, 'and what assistance has been granted in each case?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-The answers are-

1. The Social Welfare Department has no record of information of this nature, which should be sought from the appropriate Com­monwealth authority.

2. I am advised that a governmental grant of $53,685 has been made to the Sunshine City Council, and that this is expected to provide employment for 36 men.

3. I have approved a grant of $500 in response to an application received from the Sunshine Ladies' Benevolent Society. Applications have also been received from the Sunshine Christian Community Services Organization, and the governing council of the Sunshine Community Chest, and are still under consideration.

3896 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

HARBOR TRUSTS. ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES AT

MELBOURNE, GEELONG AND

PORTLAND.

(Question No. 745)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Public W orks-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies were advertised by the Melbourne Harbor Trust, Geelong Harbor Trust and Portland

2.

1969

Trade No. of

applications

Painting, signwriting and decorating . . ..

Plumbing and gasfitting .. Electrical mechanic ~ .. .0 ,g Carpentry and joinery .. '@

~ Motor mechanic .. .. '0

Z Boilermaker welder .. Fitter and turner .. .. Shipwrighting .. ..

1. (b) Geelong Harbor Trust 1969: 2 1970: 3 1971: 1

2.

1969

Trade No. of

applications

Electrical mechanic . , 32

Welder structural steel .. 16

Diesel fitter .. .. .. Fitter and turner .. .. . . Gardener .. .. ..

48

Appoint-ments

.. 2

3

2

4

1

2

1

15

Appoint-ments

1

1

..

..

. . 2

Harbor Trust, respectively, during each of the past three years?

2. How many applications were received in respect of each such position and how many appointments were made?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answers supplied by the Minister of Public Works are-

1. (d) Melbourne Harbor Trust 1969: 15 1970: 17 1971: 20

1970 1971

No. of Appoint- No. of applications ments applications

9 1 11

12 3 17

15 3 16

9 2 37

5 2 12

9 2 12

14 2 26

6 2 8

79 17 139

1970 1971

No. of Appoint- No. of applications ments applications

26 1 .. .. . . . . 8 1 ..

15 1 . ,

.. .. 6

49 3 6

Appoint-ments

1

3

3

2

3

3

2

3

20

Appoint-ments

.,

..

.,

. . 1

1

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3897

(c) Portland Harbor Trust

1 and 2. No 'apprenticeship vacancies were advertised over the past three years, but two apprentices, a fitter and turner and a painter were selected locally without advertisement in February, 1971.

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

TRADESMEN EMPLOYED:

ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES.

(Question No. 746)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Health-

1. How many tradesmen are employed by the Departmen1t of Health?

2. How many apprenticeship vacancies were advertised by the department during each of the past three years and how many appointments were made?

3. How many applications were received for each of the positions. so advertised?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answers are-

1. 491.

2. No vacancies were advertised, although two apprentices. are employed in areas where vacancies have occurred in a staff of trades­men and the vacancy as a tradesman cannot be filled.

3. Not applicable.

OUTBREAK OF ANTHRAX DISEASE IN

ECHUCA.

(Question No. 818)

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Minister of Health-

1. On what date the outbreak of 'anthrax disease at Echuca was reported to the Department of Health?

2. When the department became aware that pet meat processed in Echuca had been delivered to a distributor in the Melbourne metropolitan area and on what date pro­tective action was taken by the department?

3. Why a list of pet food shops to which suspected infected meat had been delivered was not obtained until Monday, 17th Janu­ary, 1972?

4. Whether an officer of the department was charged with the responsibility of con­tacting the medical officer of the City of

Broadmeadows concerning the location of suspected infected meat; lif so-(a) what is the name and pos'ition of the departmental officer; (b) whether the failure to communi· cate directly with the chief health inspector in the ·absence of the medical officer of the city resulted in any dellay in locating stocks of suspected infected meat?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answer is-

At aproximately 11 a.m. on Thursday, 13th January, 1972 it became known to the De­partment of Health that a case of anthrax in a human being had occurred at Echuca. Two municipalities were involved, that con­taining the hospital where the case wa's first tr,eated and that where was situated the knackery from which the meat came. A medical officer of the department was sent to Echuca and he reported back by telephone next day.

The first contact known in Melbourne was traced in the 'afternoon of Friday, 14th January, 1972, and was Mrs. Keightley of 10 Mainer Street, Noble Park. She advised the department that she ,and her husband conducted a pets' food wholesale supply bus'iness in Dandenong. The medical officer of health at Dandenong further investigated the matter and by Saturday morning had arranged for all meat to be destroyed, clothing to be destroyed or disinfected and premises to be disinfected. Neither to officers of the department nor to the health staff of the Dandenong municipality on Friday or Saturday did Mrs. Keightley ad­mit that she had sold any of the meat about which there was doubt.

On Monday morning the Keightley prem­ises at Dandenong were visited by staff from the Department of Health 'and officers of the Department of Agriculture. At this time Mr. Keightley handed to officers of the Department of Health a list of nine pets' food shops to which infected meat could have been sent. She said she had been confused about the matter when pre­viously questioned. One of these shops was in Dandenong and this was dealt with immediately by council staff.

Dr. P. J. White notified the medical officer of health of the municipalities in which the remaining eight pets' food shops were situ­ated.

The only difficulty experienced during this part of the operation occurred at Broad­meadows where the health inspector re­ported that pets' food meat from Keightley of Noble Park (Dandenong) could not be found at Stubbs Pets Food at 97 Wheat­sheaf Road, Bro'admeadows.

3898 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

The council health inspector was told that a medical officer and health inspector from the department would be there ,as soon as possible 'and, in f·act, were already on their way.

The batch of meat likely to be infected was 'Soon ascertained and :other unprotected meat which might have become contami­nated was isolated and arrangements were made for the whole of 'it, together with a chopping block used in cutting some of it up, to be incinerated.

In view of the inability of the health inspection 'Staff of the Broadmeadows council to identify the meat concerned so that action could be taken I cannot see that failure to deal direct with ,a health inspector instead of the medical officer of health-the officer responsible under ·the Health Act for the local control of :infectious diseas~would have any bearing on the matter.

At the discussion between officers of the Department of Health :and the Department of Agriculture on Monday, two other con­tact points in Melbourne became known and 'these were dealt with pr:omptly by the medical officer of health of the City of Melbourne and his staff. All meat suspected of being infected was surrendered voluntarily by the proprietors of the various shops concern·ed.

OUTBREAK OF TYPHOID FEVER: NORTH COTE CAFE.

(Question No. 819)

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Minister of HeaIth-

1. Which medical officer of the Depart­ment ,of Health was directly involved in taking protective measures during the out­break of typhoid fever traced to a North­cote cafe?

2. What recommendations were made by this officer concern'ing the operations, par­ticipation of staff, and sale of food from this cafe once 'the source of infection was known?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answers are-

1. Dr. P. J. White. 2. The recommendations made by this officer were set out in the answers to ques­tions :asked by the honorable member on

19th and 26th October, 1971. Notwithstanding action taken by officers of the Northcotecouncil, experts 'in epidemi­ology do notoonsider it necessary to dose premises ,once possible sources of infection are removed 'and 'appropriate disinfection

carried out.

SPREAD OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE: PRECAUTIONARY ACTION.

(Question No. 822)

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Minister of Health-

1. What action he has taken to ensure that no apparent irresponsibility or negligence can occur in the Department of Health in respect of the spread of infectious disease by food products, other products, articles for sale, and commercial services supplied to the public?

2. Whether he will give an immediate assurance that the Department of Health will, in future, conscientiously work round the clock if necessary, while there is any threat of epidemic disease or danger to the public?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answer is-

I do not accept the implication contained in the question that there is irresponsibility or negligence in the Department of Health in respect of its supervision of food and f~>od pro~ucts for sale for human consump­tIOn. WIth the exception of one or two municipalities where perhaps the personal ambition and des'ire for power of individual officers appears to be of more importance than co-operation, the department enjoys the full confidence of and friendly associa­~i?n with the health staffs of all municipal­Ities.

Notwithstanding the innuendo contained in the second part of the honorable member's question, officers of the Depart­ment of Health have always been ready to work around the clock and over week-ends in any emergency and, in fact, have often done so. HoweV'er, the expert officers of the department are the best judges of what is necessary in this regard.

GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND INSTRUMENTALITIES.

INDUSTRIAL DISPUTES.

(Question No. 748)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Premier-

1. What co-ordination took place between the State Electricity Commission manage­ment and-(a) State Government depart­ments and instrumentalities; (b) the Com­monwealth Government; (c) national and

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3899

State employer organizations; (d) dIe Mini­

ster for Fuel and Power; and (e) the

Premier, in respect of the recent State

Electricity Commission industrial dispute?

2. Whether it is the policy of the Gov­

ernment to continue to allow Government

departments, including the Gas and Fuel

Corporation and the commission to under­

take separate negotiations in respect of

wages and conditions?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) .-The answers are-

1. During the recent State Electricity Commission industrial dispute co-ordination was effected between the State Electricity Commission management and State Gov­ernment departments and instrumentalities by the appointment of Mr. I. E. Douglas as counsel for the State Gov:emment and the various instrumentalities. This method of co-ordination could not of course be extended to the Commonwealth Government or national and State 'employer organiza­tions.

The Premier, the Minister for Fuel and Power and the Minister of Labour and Industry were kept fully advised by counsel during the currency of the dispute.

2. Each case will be dealt with on its merits. Where claims aff'ect other branches of Government employment, Government policy would call for reasonable co­ordination.

METROPOLITAN FIRE BRIGADES BOARD AND POLICE

DEPARTMENT.

ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES:

TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 749)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked

the Chief Secretary-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies in each trade classification were advertised by the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board and the Police Department, respectively, during each of the past three years?

2. How many applications were received in respect of each such position advertised?

3. How many tradesmen have been employed by these bodies during each of the past three years?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­

The answers are-

Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board:

1. Nil. However, a direct approach was

made by the board to the Apprenticeship

Commission in January, 1970, when the

only resultant applicant was employed, and

again in January, 1972, when one of six

applicants was engaged.

In each case, th'e apprenticeship was for

the trade classification of motor mechanic.

2. Not applicable.

3. 82 as at 1st March, 1970.

80 as at 1st March, 1971.

69 as at 1st March, 1972.

The present staff includes three ap­

prentice motor mechanics and one ap­

prentice electrical mechanic.

Police:

1. Nil. However, one apprentice was

appointed in 1969 and another two in 1970.

2. Not applicable.

3. During each of the three years 1969 to

1971, the following tradesmen were

employed:-

1 senior motor mechanic.

3 leading-hand motor mechanics.

16 motor mechanics. 5 apprentice motor mechanics.

PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.

ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES:

TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 750)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry,

for the Minister of Public W orks-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies in

each of the trade classifications were

advertised by the Public Works Department

during each of the past three years?

2. How many applications were received

in respect of each such vacancy?

3. How many tradesmen were employed by the department during each of the past three years'!

3900 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answers supplied by the Minister of Public Works are-

Number of apprenticeship vacancies Number of Number of advertised by the Public Works Applications apprentices Total number tradesmen Actual Department received engaged of apprentices employed ratio 1968-69

Painting .. ., No record 2 9 120 1 : 13 kept Plumbing .. · . " 1 5 20 1 : 4 Electrical ..

" .. " 2 3 26 1 : 9 Gardening · . · . " 2 2 32 1 : 16 Motor mechanics .. .. " 2 3 18 1 : 6 Fitters and turners · . " 1 3 7 1 : 2 Shipwrights .. .. " 1 3 8 1 : 3 Bricklayer · . · . .. . . 1 6 1 : 6 Carpenters · . · . · . .. 13 85 1 : 7 Plasterers .. .. .. .. 2 17 1 : 9 Stonemasons " .. .. . . 1 12 1 : 12 Welders .. · . .. · . .. 1 3 1 : 3

Total .. .. · . 11 46 355 1 : 78

1969-70 No record of advertisements having been submitted

Carpenters · . .. No record · . 9 84 1 : 9 Painters

kept " · . " 1 9 115 1 : 13 Plumbers'. : .. ..

" 2 9 27 1 : 3 Stonemasons · . · . " 1 1 11 1 : 11 Bricklayers " " " · . ., 6 .. Electricians · . " 1 4 22 1 : 5 Fitters and turner~' ..

" 1 3 16 1 : 5 Gardeners .. "

., 2 25 1 : 12 Motor mechanics '. : .. "

., 3 13 1 : 4 Plasterers .. .. " · . . . 17 .. Shipwrights .. .. " 1 2 9 1 : 4 Welders .. .. .. " .. 1 4 1 : 4

Total · . .. .. 7 43 349 1 : 81

1970-71 General advertisement for apprenticeship in-

Carpentry · . .. 5 5 13 75 ,. Bricklaying .. .. 1 1 1 6 .. Painting " .. 7 3 10 75 .. Plastering .. .. 2 · . ., 7 .. Plumbing · . .. 2 3 6 28 ., Welding " " .. 1 1 4 .. Shipwright .. .. .. 1 3 14 .. Fitter and turner .. .. " · . 3 19 ,. Stonemason .. .. . , , . 1 11 .. Electrical .. " " " .. 3 19 .. Motor mechanic " . , · . .. 2 12 .. Gardener " .. .. ., . , 13 ..

Total .. " 17 14 43 283 .. For year 1971-72.

General advertisement for apprentices in carpentry, painting, plastering and plumbing,

In all 125 applications were received of which ten were selected, and engaged. These apprentices are at present under probation.

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3901

COUNTRY FIRE AUTHORITY. ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES:

TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 751)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies in each trade were advertised by the Country Fire Authority during each of the past three years?

2. How many applicants were interviewed in respect of each position?

3. How many tradesmen were employed by the authority in each of Ithe past three years?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The answers are-

1. Nil.

2. -

3. 1969 1970 1971

Motor mechanics 24 26 27

Carpenters 5 5 5

Radio technicians 4 5 6

Tailoring 8 11 10

LANDS DEPARTMENT. ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES:

TRADESMEN EMPLOYED.

(Question No. 752)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Lands-

1. How many apprenticeship vacancies in each of the various trades were advertised by the Department of Crown Lands and Survey during each of the past three years?

2. How many applications were received and how many appointments were made in each case?

3. How many tradesmen were employed by the department in the past three years?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answers are-

1. 1969-Nil.

1970-Nil.

1971-Two gardeners.

2. 1969-Nil.

1970-Nil.

1971-Two appointments by selection from numerous inquiries (no accurate record kept of number).

3. As at 31st December, 1969-63 gar-deners and mechanics.

As at 31st December, 1970-66 gar­deners and mechanics.

As at 31st December, 1971-61 gar­deners and mechanics.

VICTORIAN RAILWAYS AND MELBOURNE AND

METROPOLITAN TRAMWAYS BOARD.

TRADESMEN EMPLOYED: ApPRENTICESHIP VACANCIES.

(Question No. 753)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. How many tradesmen were employed by !the Victorian. Railways Commissioners and the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tram­ways Board, respectively, during each of the past three years?

2. How many positions and in what trades apprenticeship vacancies were advertised in each of the past three years?

3. How many apprenticeship applications were received in respect of each of the positions so advertised?

4. How many appoin1tments were made in respect of each of the trades during each of the past three years?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

1. Tradesmen employed by the Victorian Railways Commissioners-

1969-3,171 1970-2,990 1971-2,947

3902 Questions [ASSEMBL Y.] on Notice.

2 and 3. VICTORIAN RAILWAYS.

1970 1971 1972 Apprenticeship vacancies trades -

Vacancies Applicants Vacancies Applicants Vacancies Applicants

Boilermaker . . . . Car and wagon builder .. Car painter .. Carpenter and joiner .. Coppersmith . . . . Electrical fitter (car lighting) Electrical fitter (signalling) .. Electrical fitter (workshops) Electrical mechanic .. Electroplater . . . . Engineering blacksmith .. Fitter and turner . . . . French polisher " .. Gas fitter . . . . Motor mechanic " .. Painter .... Patternmaker . . . . Plumber.. .. .. Printing trades . . . . Sign writer .. Telephone technician .. Tinsmith and sheet metal

worker " .. Upholsterer . . . .

Totals

4.

50 16 4 3 3 3

19 37 15 1 1

65 1 2 2 .. 1

.. 4 .. 12

4 4

247

VICTORIAN RAILWAYS.

Trade 1969 1970

--

Blacksmith .. .. 4 3 Boilermaker .. .. 65 59 Bricklayer .. .. .. 1 Car painter .. .. 7 3 Car and wagon builder .. 21 11 Carpenter .. .. 8 15 Compositor .. .. 6 .. Coppersmith .. .. 3 5 Electroplater .. .. 1 . . Electrical fitter .. 43 21 Electrical mechanic .. 10 24 Fitter and turner .. 97 47 Letterpress machinist .. 4 1 Moulder .. .. .. 1 Motor mechanic .. 1 2 Painter ., .. 5 6 Patternmaker .. .. 1 1 Plumber .. .. 3 2 Sailmaker · . .. 1 .. Signwriter .. .. 1 3 Springmaker · . .. 1 .. Telephone technician .. 3 2 Tinsmith and sheet metal

worker .. .. 2 3 Turner · . .. . . .. Upholsterer .. .. 4 1 Welder . , .. .. 1

----Totals .. .. 291 212

95 25 24

110 2 1

36 71

220 1 1

264 2 8

128 . . 5

.. 19 . . 60

13 8

1,093

1971

--

5 25 .. 3 8

26 1 2 .. 39 11 50 .. .. 1 2

.. 1 .. .. .. 2

2 2 2 ..

---182

36 108 33 83 11 21 · . · . 2 10 .. · . 2 122 10 182 5 2 .. · . 3 .. 3 2

10 33 15 21 31 59 20 83 15 199 15 264 1 4 · . .. 3 3 5 2

55 263 52 264 " ., .. · . 2 1 · . .. 2 140 2 148 4 11 4 26 .. . . .. · . 2 71 4 103 3 15 · . · . 1 31 1 34

12 47 12 75

3 19 1 6 2 3 1 7

205 1,162 178 1,300

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLlTAN TRAMWAYS BOARD.

1. 30th June, 1969-525 tradesmen.

30th June, 1970-522 tradesmen.

30th June, 1971-509 tradesmen .

2 and 3. The board has not ·advertised for apprentices during the past three years as it has been able to recruit sufficient numbers without advertising .

4. Apprentices appointed during year ended-

30th 30th ! 30th Trade June, June, June,

1969 1970 1971 -----

Electrical fitter 8 4 4 Fitter and turner 4 3 5 Electrical mechanic 2 1 3 Motor mechanic 2 5 4 Sheet metal worker 1 Bodymaker 3 1 3 Painter 1 1 2 Boiler maker 1 2 Panel beater 1 1 Plumber 1 Trimmer 1

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3903

TRAM DRIVERS AND CONDUCTORS: TRAIN CREWS.

(Question No·. 813)

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. Whether there is any shortage of drivers and conductors in the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board; if so, how many vacancies exist in each category, and what steps, if any, have been taken by the board to fill them?

2. Whether there is any shortage of train crews in the Victorian Railways; if so, how many vacancies exist in each category of train crew and what steps, if any, have been taken to fill them?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

1. I am advised that the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board has vacancies for 118 drivers and 122 conductors at present.

Advertisements for conductors and for former traffic employees are placed regularly in the metropolitan daily press and also appear on notices placed in the board's vehicles.

Vacancies for drivers are filled by train­ing suitable conductors.

2. I understand that there is nO' shortage of guards in the Victorian Railways to meet existing rosters.

However, there are six electric train drivers short of the number required to meet existing rosters, and efforts are being made to recruit employees who are suitably qualified.

STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION AND GAS AND FUEL

CORPORATION. EMPLOYMENT OF ApPRENTICES AND

TRADESMEN.

(Question No. 756)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Attorney-General, for the Mini­ster for Fuel and Power-

1. How many apprentices commenced work with the State Electricity Commission and the Gas and Fuel Corporation, respectively, in each of the past three years?

2. How these appointments were made?

3. How many apprentices so employed were appointed in each of the respective trades?

4. How many applicants for apprentice­ship vacancies were interviewed for these positions during each of the past three years, indicating the number for each trade?

5. How many tradesmen were employed by the commission and the corporation, respectively, in each of the past three years?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­On behalf of the Minister for Fuel and Power, the answers are-

A. State Electricity Commission of Victoria:

1. 1969

1970

1971

169

217

203

2. Appointments are made as a result of recommendations from committees compris­ing senior State Electricity Commission officers who interview applicants. Appli­cants are selected for interview principally on the basis of their school records.

3.

Trade 1969 1970 1971

----Refrigerator mechanics .. 2 3 Electrical fitting and

armature winding 2 2 2 Electrical fitting 31 33 29 Electrical mechanics 19 20 20 Instrument making and

repairing 8 8 9 Motor mechanics 10 7 7 Screen printing Painting 2 1 1 Plumbing 1 2 2 Carpentry and joinery 3 1 2 Gardening 2 1 Coppersmithing 2 Boilermaking 14 19 14 Fitting and turning 41 36 41 Moulding 2 1 Lithographic printing 1 Watch and clockmaking 2 4 Vehicle painting 1 1 Meter mechanics 3 8 6 Panel beating .. 1 Telecommunications

mechanics 2 3 4 Radio tradesmen 1 4 3 Sheet metal 1 1 1 Leather working Linesmen *28 60 51 Motor trimming 1 Automotive electrics

------169 217 203

• Tn 1969 trainees were taken in the training scheme of linesmen in training and they were subsequently changed to apprentice linesmen.

3904 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

4.

Trade 1969 1970 1971

Refrigerator mechanics .. 3 5 6 Electrical fitting and

armature winding 5 8 7 Electrical fitting 60 70 54 Electrical mechanics 39 36 41 Instrument making and

and repairing 16 14 20 Motor mechanics 22 13 17 Screen printing Painting 4 3 4 Plumbing 3 5 8 Carpentry and joinery 6 3 5 Gardening 3 Coppersmithing 3 Boilermaking 28 37 26 Fitting and turning 75 68 83 Moulding 3 3 Lithographic printing 2 Watch and olockmaking 2 10 Vehicle painting 3 1 Meter mechanics 7 38 23 Panel beating .. 4 Telecommunications

mechanics 5 10 7 Radio tradesmen 5 14 6 Sheet metal 2 2 4 Leather working Linesmen 68 150 123 Motor trimming 2 Automotive electrics 3

------

5. 31st December, 1969 31st December, 1970 31st December, 1971

353 485 452

3,677 3,703 3,672

B. Gas and Fuel Corporation of Victoria:

1. The corporation employs apprentices at the beginning of each calendar year to enable them to commence required training at technical schools at the beginning of the school year. Numbers of apprentices who commenced work at the beginning of the last three years were as follows:-

1970 16 1971 18 1972 19

2. Vacancies are advertised in the daily press reference is made to the Common­wealth Employment Service and the Apprenticeship Commission ,and careers booklets are distributed to appropriate schools as requested.

Proposed apprentices are required to make application in writing and successful applicants are selected by personal interview.

3.

Trade 1970 1971 1972

Plumbing and gasfitting 12 Motor mechanics . . 3 Fitting and turning Electrical mechanics Steel construction Sheet metal work Boilermaking /structural

steel

16

14 1

18

14 2 2 1

19

4. All applicants with the requir.ed qualifications for apprenticeship vacanCIes are invited by letter to attend a personal interview. The corporation does not keep details of the numbers of applications received beyond twelve months.

Applications received for apprenticeships to commence in 1972 were as follows:-

Plumbing and gasfitting 71 Motor mechanics 7 Fitting and turning 4 Electrical mechanics 7

5. Numbers of tradesmen employed by the corporation at 31st December in each of the past three years were as follows:-

1969 629 1970 586 1971 552

The numbers of tradesmen employed have reduced consequent upon the introduction of natural gas and the closing of gas­producing plants.

ROAD SAFETY AND TRAFFIC AUTHORITY.

TALBOT BY-PASS ROAD.

(Question No. 761)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. Why the Road Safety 'and Traffic Authority has failed to answer communica­tions from the Shire of Talbot and Clunes dated July and November, 1971, concern'ing the new Talbot by-pass road?

2. What action the authority has taken to investigate problems with the road brought to its attention by the shire?

3. What stage investigations have now reached and when a decision on a speed limit and other matters will be known?

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3905

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The answer is-

It is a matter for regret that the lauth­ority, in this instance, did not keep the council fully informed of the progress of this application. However, I am informed by the chairman th'at 'an investigation has been made into problems with ,the road and a report was prepared at the end of last year.

The authority proposes to confer during this month with the council and the Coun­try Roads Board on the question of what action should be taken.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.

ACCOMMODATION FOR PRINCIPAL OF

MARYBOROUGH EAST PRIMARY

SCHOOL.

(Question No. 764)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Education-

1. Whether he will take action to ensure that a house is purchased immediately for the principal at primary school No. 2828, Maryborough East?

2. Whether the principal is living in the Maryborough caravan park because of the shortage of suitable accommodation?

3. Whether a house for the principal was promised in 1949?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister pf Education) .-The answers are-

1. A priority has been granted to provide a residence for the principal of the Mary­borough East Primary School. Investiga­tions are to proceed in an endeavour to purchase a suitable house for this purpose. It is anticipated that this priority will now be met during the current financial year.

2. Yes.

3. The removal 'and remodelling at Mary­borough East of an old residence from pri­mary school Percydale No. 1042 was approved by the departmental Res'idence Selection Committee in April, 1949. Speci­fications were prepared and tenders invited by the Public Works Department, but the tenders subsequently received were all re­garded as exorbitant. Readvertising ,on a number of occasions did not bring better results 'and in view of the Premier's order of 6th June, 1954, that the department should not provide houses in areas where the Housing Commission can make a house available, the earlier approval to provide a house for Maryborough East had been can­celled. The present approval to provide a house for the principal of Maryborough East Primary School was given in December, 1970.

CLERICAL ASSISTANCE AT

HIGH SCHOOLS.

(Question No. 786)

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park) asked the Minister of Education-

1. How many high schools are fully staffed with clerical assistants in accordance with the new staffing schedule approved by the Public Service Board last year?

2. How many high schools are not staffed in accordance with the schedule, and what are their names and location?

3. Which high schools are without any clerical assistants?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister Education) .-The answers are-

1. 103. 2. 150 as follows:-

High scho'ols

Alexandra Albert Park Altona Altona North Ashwood Bacchus Marsh Bairnsdale Ballarat East Ballarat Girls Bayswater Belmont Benalla Bendigo Blackburn Boronia Box Hill (Boys) Braybrook Brentwood Brighton Broadmeadows Brunswick Brunswick Girls Buckley Park Canterbury Girls Caulfield Chadstone Cheltenham Corryong Croydon Dandenong Dimboola Memorial Donvale Doveton Drouin Eaglehawk Echuca Edenhope Elwood Essendon Euroa Ferntree Gully Fitzroy Flemington Flemington Girls Footscray Foster

r Frankston Geelong North Glen Waverley Golden Square Grey thorn Hadfield Hamilton Hampton Healesville Heatherhill Heidelberg Heywood Highett Hopetoun Horsham Huntingdale Hurstbridge J. H. Boyd D. C. Karingal Kealba Keilor Heights Kerang Kew Koonung Kyabram Kyneton Lalor Lakeside Laver-ton Lyndale Malvern Girls Mansfield Maroon-dah Matthew Flinders Merbein Merrilands Mildura Mirboo North Mitcham Moe Monash Monterey Montmerency Moorabbin Moorleigh Mordialloc-Chelsea

of

3906 Questions [ASSEMBLY. ] on Notice.

High scho!()ls

Mornington Morwell Mount Waverley Myrtleford Newborough Newcomb Newlands Nhill Niddrie Noble Park Norlane Northcote Norwood Nunawading Oakleigh Oak Park Oberon Orbost Ouyen Pakenham Pascoe Vale Girls Pembroke Prahran Queens cliff. Red Cliffs Reservoir Richmond Girls Ringwood Robinvale

3. None.

Rochester Rosebud St. Albans Seaford Carrum Sea Lake Seymour Shepparton Stawell Strathmore Sunshine West Swan Hill Syndal Tallangatta Templestowe Terang Thornbury Upfield Upper Yarra Upwey Vermont Warragul Warrnambool Watsonia Werribee Westall Williamstown Williamstown Girls Wodonga Yalloum

PRESTON NORTH EAST PRIMARY SCHOOL.

(Question No. 804)

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Minister of Public Works-

Whether the roof drainage design at Preston North East Primary School new library was prepared in accordance with design criteria for this latitude and whether the plan approved by the Public Works Department was carried out in detail?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answer supplied by the Minister of Public Works is-

The roof drainage design was based on a rule of thumb formula of 1 square inch of cross-section of downpipe for every 100 square feet of roof area.

This rule of thumb formula is one fre­quently used in Melbourne, although it is not one employed by the Public Works Department.

The plan approved by the Public Works Department was not carried out in detail in that side entries to the downpipes were provided in lieu of sump entries, as detailed.

It is considered this variation is of no great consequence.

SCHOOL BUILDING COSTS. (Question No. 823)

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Education-

1. What are the costs of building in Victoria-(a) a primary school; (b) a high school; and (c) a technical school, of com­parable size to those constructed in the Australian Capital Territory?

2. What factors give rise to the difference in costs?

Mr. THOl\1PSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

Up-to-date costs 'are not available for Australian Capital Territory schools. A comparison of costs with the Victorian schools will be prepar~ after required information is received from the Depart­ment of Education and Science.

The honorable member will be advised by letter as soon as possible.

SCHOOL LIBRARIES ESTABLISHED FROM COMMONWEALTH GRANTS.

(Question No. 824)

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Education-

1. Which high and technical schools have established libraries from Commonwealth libraries grants since 1969?

2. Which other schools are likely to have libraries by the end of 1972?

3. How many high and technical schools will not have such libraries at the end of 1972?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. (a) Libraries built/commenced to Commonwealth standards before 31st December, 1971.

High schools Albert Park. Brentwood. Burwood Heights. Camperdown. Doncaster. Ferntree Gully. Frankston. Glen Waverley. Greenwood. Hadfield. Hallam. Heatherhill. Kealba. Keilor Heights. Laverton. Lilydale. MacRobertson Girls High School. Maryvale.

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3907

High schools Montmorency. Newcombe. Nunawading. Oak Park. Pembroke. Rosanna East. Seaford-Carrum. Syndal. Thomastown. Watsonia.

Technical schools Essendon. Glenroy. Irymple. Kmgsbury. Leongatha. Northcote. Oakleigh. South Melbourne. Sunshine. Wangaratta.

(b) Libraries converted to provide im­proved standards using Commonwealth funds.

High schools Altona. Altona North. Ashwood. Bayswater. Beaumaris. Bell Park. Bentleigh. Blackburn South. Braybrook. Broadmeadows. Buckley Park. Cohuna. Donvale. Doveton. Drouin. Echuca. Edenhope. Essendon. Footscray. Frankston. Geelong North. Golden Square. Heidelberg Girls High School. Highett. Huntingdale. Hurstbridge. Koonung. Lakeside. Latrobe. Lyndale. Macleod. Maroondah. Merrilands. Monbulk. Monterey. Moorabbin. Moorleigh. Morwell. Mount Waverley. Newborough. Newlands. Niddrie. . ,

High schools Noble Park. Norlane. Parkdale. Pascoe Vale Girls High School. Richmond Girls High School. Rochester. Strathmore. Sunshine West. Terang. Thornbury. Upfield. Wangaratta. Warrnambool. Waverley. Westall. Wodonga. Yallourn.

Technical schools

Broadmeadows. Warragul.

2. High schools Boronia. Chandler. Elwood. Euroa. Fawkner. Glenroy. Matthew Flinders (Girls). McKinnon. Mitcham. Mornington. Niddrie. Strathmore. Templestowe. Waverley.

Technical schools Bell Park. Fawkner. Keon Park. Lalor. Mitcham. Wangaratta. Warrnambool.

In addition to the above it is likely that the following high school library projects will be at the tender stage before the end of 1972.

High schools Altona North. Belmont. Beaumaris. Croydon. Caulfield. Doveton. Eltham. Karingal. Kew. Oakleigh. Noble Park. Ringwood. St. Albans.

3. High schools 198 Technical schools 95 .

3908 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

PORTABLE CLASS-ROOMS: USE IN GREENSBOROUGH ELECTORATE.

(Question No. 825)

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Education-

1. Whe1ther it is the policy of the Govern­ment to purchase all portable class-rooms for schools or whether some are obtained on lease or rental?

2. In the event that some portable class­rooms are leased or rented, how many are-(a) leased; and (b) rented, what is the cost per room, and from whom they are rented or leased?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1 and 2. It is Government policy :to pur­chase all por.table class-rooms for schools­none are obtained on lease or rental.

(Question No. 855)

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) asked the Minister of Education-

1. How many portable class-rooms have been allocated to each primary and second­ary school in the electoral district of Greens­borough this year?

2. How many class-rooms have been de­livered to each school and when the balance will be delivered?

2. How many class-rooms have been de­livered to the schools to date?

3. Whether the balance will be delivered; if so, when?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. Primary-128 Secondary-140

2. Approximately 230

3. Yes; by the end of March. These figures relate to new portables and

transfers determined up to 1st February.

SECONDARY SCHOOLS: COMMONWEALTH ASSISTANCE FOR

SCIENCE BLOCKS.

(Question No. 826)

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Education-

I. How many high schools and technical schools, respectively, there are in Victoria?

2. Whether at 30th June, 1971, 119 high schools and 50 technical schools had not received Commonwealth assistance for science blocks?

3. What is the reason for the delay in assisting these schools?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister Education) .-The answers are-

4. When it is expected that these high and of technical schools will receive assistance for

science blocks?

1. Primary schools-Nil.

Secondary schools-Greenwood High School, 1. Rosanna East High School, 2.

2. Greenwood High School­Nil.

Rosanna East High School­Two.

The portable science laboratory for Greenwood High School is at present under construction and the contractor has advised that it will be delivered to the site in approximately one week.

(Question No. 856)

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) asked the Minister of Education-

1. How many portable class-rooms have been allocated to primary schools and sec­ondary schools, respectively, for the 1972 school year?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. Two hundred and fifty-four high schools and 112 technical schools.

2. As at this date there are 78 high schools and 42 technical schools in which major Commonwealth assistance has not been completed or commenced. All of these schools are listed for such works as are necessary in the life of the grants.

3. There is no delay.

4. Each high and technical school has a schedule setting down the financial year between now and 1975 and the nature of the work to be undertaken.

CASTERTON HIGH SCHOOL.

(Question No. 841)

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Minister of Education-

When the buildings promised for Caster­ton High School will be erected on site?

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3909

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

No date can be specified at this stage.

UNQUALIFIED SECONDARY TEACHERS.

(Question No. 846)

Mr. E. W. LEWIS (Dundas) asked the Minister of Education-

How many unqualified secondary teachers were given permanent appointments in 1970 and whether this precludes them from promotion and study leave on full pay?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

None.

CLOTHING OF STUDENTS.

(Question No. 848)

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park) asked the Minister of Education-

1. Whether there are any regulations governing the type of clothing students must wear in State primary, secondary and technical schools; if so, what is the nature of such regulations?

2. Whether the 'school principal or any­one deputizing for him has authority to -( a) compel a student to wear a uniform; or (b) discriminate against a student in any way for failing to wear a uniform?

3. Whether any restrictions regarding wearing apparel, other than those which apply to citizens generally, apply to students in the State education systems?

4. Whether any authority exists which allows school principals to forbid the wearing of " jeans" or " cords" by students in State schools; if not, whether he will advise school principals and parents of pupils of this fact?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. There are no regulations specifically governing the wearing of school uniforms. This is a matter fIQr determination by each individual school usually after consulta­tion with parent bodies. Regulation XVI. however states-

"(2) Teachers shall do all in their power to form habits of right conduct in their pupils by-

(i) inculcating the principles of morality, truth, and justice;

(ii) encouraging and judiciIQusly en­forcing personal neatness and cleanliness; "

2. The wearing of a school uniform and its particular style is therefore a matter for the school concerned and the decision made becomes a matter of school policy and shOUld be observed as such.

3. Only in so far as school policy is involved.

4. As above. School principals are aware of the circumstances obtaining in this matter.

MANSFIELD AUTISTIC CHILDREN'S CENTRE.

GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE.

(Question No. 774)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Health-

Whether any Government assistance has been provided for the Mansfield Autistic Children's Centre; if not, why?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answer is-

No Government assistance has been pro­vided for the Mansfield Autistic Children'S Centre. The Mental Health Authority sub­sidizes day training centres for intellec­tually handicapped children under the pro­visions of the Mental Health Act but the services provided for autistic children at Mansfield cannot be regarded as the operation of a day training centre. Con­sequently, the organization operating the Mansfield service does not qualify for assistance.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN TRAMWAYS

BOARD. NEW TRAMCARS.

(Question No. 780) Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North)

asked the Minister of Transport-1. When the last new tramcar was

constructed at the Preston workshops? 2. How many new tramcars, if any, have

been put into service since that date and from whom they were purchased?

3. Whether construction of further new tramcars will be undertaken; if so, where?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

1. The last new tramcar constructed at the Preston workshops was completed in 1956.

2. No new tramcars have been put into service since then.

3. This matter is at present being considered.

3910 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

PRESTON WORKSHOPS: STAFF:

FUTURE PLANS.

(Question No. 802)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. What average number of persons was employed at the Preston tramway work­shops in each of the years from 1960 to 1971 inclusive?

2. What are the future plans for this workshop in relation to. the number of persons to be employed and the type of work to be undertaken?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

1. 1960 548 persons 1961 537 persons 1962 523 persons 1963 503 persons 1964 488 persons 1965 474 persons 1966 469 persons 1967 441 persons 1968 437 persons 1969 419 persons 1970 412 persons 1971 415 persons

2. There are no plans at present to vary the number of persons employed at the workshops or the type of work being undertaken there.

BLIND PERSONS.

PRIVATE Bus TRAVEL CONCESSIONS.

(Question No. 784)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Health-

Whether he will consider negotiating with private bus operators in Victoria to allow concession fares for blind persons travelling to and from blind institutions and classes?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answer is-

Free or concession travel on trains without limit as to income and free travel on trams for blind persons of limited means is already available.

However, it would be difficult to devise an easily supervised and satisfactory arrangement with individual private bus owners throughout Victoria to exteJ?d the system to privately-operated bus seI'Vlces.

Some private bus proprietors already grant free travel to blind persons who present an authority issued by either the Victorian Railways or the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Bo.ard.

SOCIAL WELFARE DEPARTMENT.

MAINTENANCE OF CHILDREN IN STATE

INSTITUTIONS.

(Question No. 790)

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Minister for Social Welfare-

What is the estimated weekly cost to the State for the maintenance of a child in a State institution?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare).-The answer is-

The estimated averag'e costs are as follows:-

In reception centres-approximately $54.00 each per week.

In 'established children's homes­approximately $40.00 each per week.

In family group homes-approximately $28.00 each per week.

Th.ese estimates do not include regard for capital works and services.

RESEARCH FACILITIES FOR MUNI­

CIPALITIES AND VOLUNTARY BODIES.

(Question No. 806)

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Minister for Social Wel­fare-

What specific research facilities have been offered by the Social Welfare Department to individual muniCipalities and voluntary bodies to assist them in conducting social welfare research?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-The answer is­

To date, no specific research facilities have been sought by, or offered to, such bodies.

VICTORIAN RAILWAYS.

EXTENSION OF LINE TO GLEN

WAVERLEY.

(Question No. 792)

Mr. GINIF'ER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. Upon what basis the financing of the extension of the railway line to Glen Waverley was arrived at?

2. How the cost was apportioned and how the contributions were collected?

3. Whether similar schemes have been proposed for the extension of other sub­urban railway lines; if so, which lines, to what locations, and at what estimated cost?

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3911

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

1. The general financial provisions for extension of the railway line from Darling to Glen Waverley were outlined in the Darling to Glen Waverley Railway Con­struction Act 1926. This included provision for the constitution of the Darling to Glen Waverley Construction Trust (comprising councillors of the adjacent municipalities) pursuant to the Railway Lands Acquisition Act 1915.

2. The trust borrowed money to meet its obligations and levied property owners with­in a constituted railway construction district by rates authorized by the Act. The rating scheme required the approval of the Governor in Council from year to year before the rate could be levied.

3. No; however, I believe that the scheme used for this line is not without merit.

NEW STATIONS FOR ARDEER AND ST. ALBANS.

(Question No. 793) Mr. GINIF"ER (Deer Park) asked

the Minister of Transport-If he will lay on the table of the Library

the files relating to the proposed railway

stations at-(a) Ardeer; and (b) Furlong Road, St. Albans.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer is-

Both files were laid on the table of the Library at the request of the honorable member in October, 1970, and there is no new material on either file since then.

WORKSHOPS: STAFF: FUTURE PLANS.

(Question No. 801)

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. What average number of persons was employed at-(a) Ballarat; (b) Bendigo; and (c) Newport railway workshops in each of the years from 1960 to 1971 inclusive, indicating 'the number of skilled tradesmen and apprentices employed in each year?

2. What are the future plans for these workshops in relation to the number of persons to be employed and the type of work to be undertaken?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

Ballarat workshops Bendigo workshops Newport workshops

Year Average Average Average

number Tradesmen Apprentices number Tradesmen Apprentices number Tradesmen Apprentices employed employed

1960 640 310 63 702 1961 650 313 72 712 1962 665 322 77 716 1963 661 311 80 714 1964 656 302 76 705 1965 647 292 80 725 1966 665 308 72 724 1967 645 302 62 698 1968 631 301 63 695 1969 634 299 66 675 1970 645 297 63 660 1971 596 286 49 624

2. It should be noted that the figures shown in the last column include first-year apprentices from other metropolitan work­shops all of whom attend at the Newport workshops full-time during this year of training. The workforce at these locations will be maintained at the highest economic level possible consistent with funds available each year.

LOCOMOTIVES USED FOR SHUNTING.

(Question No. 836) Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North)

asked the Minister of Transport-1. How many "J" class oil burning loco­

motives are operated for shunting purposes by the Victorian Railways?

employed

287 90 2,593 981 384 301 83 2,639 986 401 303 83 2,654 988 484 304 77 2,510 909 420 292 80 2,384 820 453 291 81 2,318 799 417 302 72 2,402 784 427 278 66 2,351 756 429 294 66 2,287 727 454 290 60 2,223 697 447 286 55 2,103 647 444 277 40 1,946 604 415

I

2. What amount of diesel fuel is con­sumed per hour of operation of one such locomotive?

3. How many "Y" class and "T" class diesel-electric locomotives are operated for shunting purposes?

4. "What is the cost per annum to the Victorian Railways of diesel fuel?

5. What fuel and other costs, respectively, are incurred in operating-(a) a .. J" class locomotive; and (b) a "Y" class locomo­tive, for an eight-hour shift?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

1. Two. 2. Approximately 25 gallons.

3912 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

3. Approximately 40 "Y" dass, but "T" class are not normally confined to shunting.

4. Approximately $1'3 million.

5. (a) "J" class.

$ Fuel 16 Crews' wages 26 Maintenance 37

Total 79

(b) "Y" class. $

Fuel 3 Crews' wages 26 Main tenance 4

PENSHURST WOOL TRAFFIC: PORTLAND-MELBOURNE SERVICE.

(Question No. 842)

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. Whether he is aware that rail traffic of wool from Penshurst has fallen by almost half since 1969; if so, what are the reasons?

2. What is the cause of the frequent late arrival of the Portland-Melbourne train and the Melbourne-Portland train, respectively?

3. Whether he can now state whether the new railcar on the Portland-Ararat line will continue to operate?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answers are-

1. 4,538 bales of wool were despatched from Penshurst in 1969 compared with 3,133 bales in 1971. Reasons for the reduction suggested by the Victorian Railways are-

(a) Wool available in the district decreased because of the depressed state of the industry and a change to other forms of primary produc­tion.

(b) Several growers controlling at least 750 bales decided to transport their wool to Portland or Geelong by road.

(c) One grower railed his wool clip of approximately 200 bales from Dunkeld instead of Penshurst to obtain a more frequent service.

2. Most of the late arrivals have been the result of defects which have occurred in the railcar which operates between Ararat and Portland. The situation has been aggravated on those occasions when the railcar has been unable to run, because the substitute locomotive-hauled train cannot maintain the

railcar schedule. Some time has also been lost on the main line due to delays in crossing other trains, defective signals and the odd locomotive failure.

3. The future of the railcar service is under consideration.

UNDERGROUND RAIL Loop: PROTECTION AGAINST FLOODING.

(Question No. 844)

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) asked the Minister of Transport-

What safeguards have been made for the protection of workers on the construction of the Melbourne underground rail loop and travellers on the underground rail loop when in operation, in the event of flash floods similar to those which occurred recently or general floodi,ng in the viCinity?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer is-

I am assured by the Melbourne Under­ground Rail Loop Authority that all proper safety precautions for the protection of workers are being taken in any work associ­ated with the project.

So far as travellers are concerned, I attach a copy of a letter published in the Age newspaper yesterday from Mr. R. B. Roscoe, chairman of the authority, as this seems to answer the honorable member's question.

The Editor, The AGE, 250 Spencer Street, Melbourne. 3000.

Dear Sir,

3rd March, 1972.

It is necessary to record an emphatic denial of statements made by Mr. N. E. Featherstone in his letter to the Age (2/3). The people of Victoria can rest assured of the safety of the Melbourne underground rail loop in all respects, knowing that it 'is being constructed with the most up-to-date tunnelling know-how in the world.

If, when the underground ra'il loop is finished, Melbourne has another rainfall downpour and sections of the city are under water (as they were on 17th February) the tunnels will not be flooded and no one in the loop will be in danger. All entrances to the underground operations, such as at the stations, will be -above the level of any possible flooding of the surrounding -areas. Special attention will be paid to the pos­sibility of flood waters and adequate pre­cautions will be taken to ensure that these waters do not enter the loop.

Around the world there are 49 cities with underground railways in operation or under construction, and 29 are extending existing underground installations. They have all dealt successfully with excess water.

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3913

Mr. Featherstone need not be worried be­cause Melbourne's rail loop will in places be below sea level, or, 'as he says, below the level of Ithe Y.arra River. In many parts of the world-for example, London, Liverpool, New York, Japan and Hong Kong -rail or road ttunnels run or are being con­structed under rivers or sea waters.

The men who will build our underground loop have had the benefit of all the experi­ence and knowledge amassed by those who have been respons'ible for building the great tunnels overseas and in Australia. In fact we have as consultants 'a team of experts with tremendous world-wide reputations in the field of tunnelling and underground services.

Yours faithfully, R. B. ROSCOE,

Chairman.

HOUSING COMMISSION. SINGLE VILLA HOUSES BUILT, SOLD

AND REPOSSESSED.

(Question No. 795)

Mr. ,EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. How many single villa houses have been built by Ithe Housing Commission in each of the years from 1955 to 1971 ·and in this year to date, excluding villas built for use of defence forces personnel?

2. How many of these houses have been sold in each year and how many have been repossessed and resold in each year?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister Housing) .-The answers are-

l. 1955-56 1956-57 1957-58 19'58-59 1959-60 1960-61 1961-62 1962-63 1963-64 1964-65 1965-66 1966-67 1967-68 1968-69 1969-70 1970-71

1st July, 1971 to 29th

3,368 1,886 1,686 2,025 1,773 1,398 1,637

981 1,395 1,595 1,550 1,858

988 1,135 1,321 1,597

February, 1972 903

of

2. Extensive research would be necessary to ascertain the information, as houses built in anyone year are not necessarily sold in that year.

Figures are available for the total num­ber of units sold in each year, and the number of units repossessed and resold.

PURCHASE OR RENTAL OF HOMES: WAITING TIME: ASSESSMENT OF ApPLICANTS.

(Question No. 796)

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Housing-

What is the current waiting time for purchase or rent of a Housing Commission house and what are the details required in respect of income, size of family, age of ap­plicants and other criteria adopted in assess­ing an applicant's ability to purchase a house?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The answer is-

Current waiting time for purchase or rent of 'a commission house is as follows:-

Purchase:

Metropolitan area-4-41 years. Country-Nil-2 years ·according to area.

Rental:

Metropol'itan area-Only three-bedroom vac­ated houses become available for rental. These are reserved ex­clusively for large family applicants.

Country-Nil-2 years according Ito area.

Eligibility to purchase:

Applicants' 'income not to exceed $70 a week, or $80 per week where there are three or more children in ·the family.

Applicant must have at least one depen­denJt child under the age of 21 years.

Applicant entering into a contract of sale must have half the sale price paid by his 65th birthday.

Applicant not permitted Ito expend more than one-quarter of gross weekly income in servicing ,a contract.

Maximum term of contract is 45 years, but where a purchaser wishes to Itake ad­vantage of the death benefit scheme, the contract must be completed by his 70th birthday, or in 30 years whichever first occurs.

ERECTION OF HOMES ON LAND OWNED BY ApPLICANTS.

(Question No. 797)

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Housing-

Whether the Government has investigated the implementation of the New South Wales Housing Commission scheme of erecting dwellings on land owned by eligible appli­cants; if not, why?

3914 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister Housing) .-The answer is-

Yes.

of

LAND USE: AGE AND CONDITION OF BUILDINGS: URBAN RENEWAL.

(Question No. 811)

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Minister of Housing-

If he will lay upon the table of the Library such records maps ~and other infor­mation covering total existing land use, and total age and conditions of buildings com­piled as part of the Housing Commission's survey of the inner city and the map of the same area defining areas suitable fur redevelopment in the context of urban renewal?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The answer is-

Total existing land use is shown in tlle Master Plan of Melbourne, prepared by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works.

The Housing Commission has no map or other material showing total age or con­dition of buildings in the inner city.

I am therefore unable to comply with the honorable member's request.

CONCRETE HOUSE PROJECT: ApPRENTICES.

(Question No. 854)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Housing-

Further to his answer to question No. 744 asked in this House on 1st March instant-

1. How many apprentices were employed on the concrete house project during each of the past three years, indicating in which trades?

2. How many applicants were inter­viewed for each new apprenticeship vacancy during each of the past three years?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The answers are-

1. Apprentices employed at concrete house project during the past three years were-

1969-1 carpenter. 1970-3 carpenters.

1 plumber. 1971-1 carpenter.

3 plumbers. 2. An average of three applicants per

apprenticeship vacancy.

LAW DEPARTMENT. LIBEL ACTION AGAINST PREMIER.

(Question No. 803')

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East) asked the Attomey-General-

Whether, in view of his answer to a question without notice asked on 29th February, 1972, that it is not abnormal for the Crown Solicitor to enter an appearance in a libel suit on behalf of the Premier, he can explain why this· facility was not avail­able to the honorable member for Gippsland East in similar proceedings?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­The answer is-

The Crown Solicitor is the solicitor to the Executive Government and does not act for members of Parliament unless the proceedings in question 'are brought in respect of the actions of a member of Par­liament performed in his capacity as ·a Minister of the Crown. This was not the case in relation to the proceedings in which the honorable member for Gippsland East was involved.

MAINTENANCE ORDERS GRANTED.

(Question No. 805)

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Attorney-General-

How many maintenance orders were granted by courts in Victoria during each of the years 1969-70 and 1970-71?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­The answer is-

Collated statistics are available only in relation to maintenance orders made in Magistrates Courts, and the following answer does not, therefore, include main­tenance orders made by the Supreme Court in the exercise of Federal jurisdiction under the 'Matrimonial Causes Act 19·59:-

Financial year 1969-70-3,040 Financial year 1970-71-3,670.

MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS. SHORTAGE IN VICTORIA: FEES.

(Question No. 815)

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Health-

1. Whether there is a shortage of medical practitioners in Victoria; if so, to what extent and in which areas the shortage exists?

2. Whether the Department of Health has taken, or is about to take, any steps to overcome the shortage?

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3915

3. Whether the department has received any reports of medical practitioners charg­ing fees in excess of the "common fees" fixed for medical benefits?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answers are-

1 and 2. There is not so much a shortage of medical practitioners in Victo:r:ia as ther.e is a difficulty in attracting medIcal practt­tioners to take up practice in the more isolated areas of the State. The Department of Health seeks to attract medical practi­tioners from Great Britain for employment in country hospitals and for practice in the smaller country towns by offering to pay costs of transport and guaranteeing an appropriate income for at least two years to qualified persons but it is difficult to attract medical practitioners to some country areas in the first instance and to encourage them to remain there in the second.

3. The State Department of Health is not directly concerned with medical benefits under the national health scheme and has no direct knowledge of charges made by medical practitioners in private practice.

DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR AND INDUSTRY.

GOLDEN CHEMICAL PRODUCTS PTY. LTD.: FRANCHISE SELLING SYSTEM.

(Question No. 828)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Labour and In­dustry-

Whether Golden Chemical Products Pty. Ltd. are still operating a system of franchise selling in Victoria which has caused financial disaster to many people; if so­(a) what steps have been taken to prevent a continuation of these practices; and (b) what steps the Department of Labour and Industry has taken to warn people of the likely effects of involvement in these opera­tions?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answer is-

As far as I am aware, these companies are still operating in Victoria. As far as I am aware, their operations are not in breach of the law. However, on 7th October, 1971, I made a statement which was widely published, in which I said, "I do not intend to deter people from participating in all direct selling schemes . . . . but I am obliged to issue this warning to prospective investors not to engage in any pyramid selling schemes which require investment in the scheme or in stocks of the products of the company other than minimum sample

ranges". I will provide a copy of this statement to the honorable member. This is not a consumer protection matter as such. It is a question of the extent to which Governments should go in trying to protect the interests of people who invest funds in commercial enterprises in search of profit. "Pyramid selling" in general is at presen t under investigation by the Commonwealth Attorney-General on behalf of the Standing Conference of Attorneys-General.

STATE SUPERANNATION FUND. FUNDS AVAILABLE: REVIEW OF

SCHEME: INVESTMENTS.

(Question No. 829)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Treasurer-

1. With respect to the State Superannua­tion Fund-( a) what amount of funds are currently available; (b) when the iast review was made; (c) when the next review will be made; and (d) what consideration has been given to providing relief for superannuated persons penalized by in­creases in living costs since the last review?

2. What investments have been made from the fund?

3. What return from investments has been accumulated in the fund?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The answers are-

1. (a) A surplus of $21,555,118 was dis­closed by the State Superannuation Board's actuary in the triennial investigation of the fund as at 30th June, 1968. However, this surplus was fully committed to pay updated pensions authorized !in the legislation that came into operation in December, 1969, and the current position of the fund is now being examined by the actuary.

(b) The last actuarial investigation of the fund was made as at 30th June, 1968. the board's actuary furnishing his report thereon on 6th July, 1970.

(c) The board's actuary is at present investigating the state of the fund as at 30th June, 1971.

(d) The Government will give considera­tion to this matter in the light of the board's recommendations on the use of any surplus disclosed by the actuary in his current investiga tion.

2. The investments, at cost, made from the fund up to 29th February, 1972, amount to $264,106,480. Current investments amount to $194,549,798. These figures do not include the equity of the fund in cash option payments which will be valued by the actuary during the course of his triennial investigation of the fund as at 30th June, 1971.

3916 Questions [ ASSEMBLY.) on Notice.

3. The interest earnings to 29th February, 1972, from investments other than the equity of the fund in cash option payments amount to $97,955,836. Interest earnings for the past twelve months amount to $10,670,794.

SERVICE STATIONS AND GARAGES.

MOTOR VEHICLE REPAIRS: " A" GRADE MECHANICS.

(Question No. 830)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Labour and In­dustry-

1. What legal requirements, if any, exist to ensure that car service stations and garages employ only qualified mechanics to carry out motor vehicle repairs?

2. If he will ascertain and inform the House-( a) how many "A" grade mech­anics are currently operating in Victoria; and (b) how many persons are currently employed in garages and service stations in Victoria, indicating how many are qualified to perform mechanical work on motor vehicles?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answers are-

1. There is no requirement in law to employ only "qualified mechanics", what­ever that may mean.

2. (a) The "A" grade examinations are conduClted, and certificates issued, not by the Government, but by a private associa­tion, the Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce, and the information sought by the honorable member would be available only from that association.

(b) This information is not available.

PUBLIC HOSPITALS. USE OF ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT DURING POWER RESTRICTIONS.

(Question No. 831)

Mr. MOSS (Murray Valley) asked the Minister of Health-

1. Whether he is aware that electronic machines used for checking blood in leukaemia cases were not used in any public hospital during the recent power restrictions?

2. Whether he will ensure that in future similar circumstances doctors will be able to use such machines?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answers are-

1. The Hospitals and Charities Comr:nis-sion is aware that Coulter counter machmes used in periodic blood checks of leukaemia

cases were not used in some public hos­pitals during the recent power restrictions. The restrictions stated that "Electricity to absolute minimum may be used for hos-pitals .......... " and therefore these machines could have been used whilst power was available.

However, this, particular blood checking task can easily be performed by manual methods. The decision by individual public hospitals not to use the machines was probably made to keep within the spirit of the electricity restrictions, bearing in mind thalt adequate and effective alternative means of testing were available.

2. In view of the fact that alternative means of testing are available, I consider that a decision not to use the machine will have no adverse effect on the treatment of the patient.

EDUCATION. SCIENCE EQUIPMENT FOR SCHOOLS:

SUPPLY BY COMMONWEALTH GOVERNMENT.

(Question No. 832)

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Educa tion-

Whether any complaints have been received by the Education Department regarding the standard of science equipment received from the Commonwealth Government; if so-(a) whether these items are forwarded to schools whether they are requested or not; (b) whether there are schools, both State and registered, where this equipment is never used; (c) whether he will obtain from the Commonwealth Government the cost of sup­plying such science equipment to high and technical schools in Victoria; and (d) whether he will make representations to the Commonwealth seeking the supply of equip­ment which is essential for the teaching of the Victorian science curriculum.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister ot Education) .-The answer is-

(a) Not now. In the earliest years some basic items related to new and standard courses were supplied without request. For the past four or five years, supply has been by request.

(b) The range of science courses is such that there is a real and legitimate use for all issued science equipment. N a:turally there will be teachers who do not use all pieces of available equipment.

(c) Allocations to the purchase of equip­ment for science from Commonwealth secondary science grants has been $300,000 per year except for the first year 1964-65 when $900,000 was applied to equipment. In the final years 1972-73 and 1974-75 the amount is to be reduced to $250,000 per annum.

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3917

(d) The implication of the question is that schools are not getting equipment which they need. This is not correct.

COLLEGES' RECURRENT EXPENDITURE.

(Question No. 833)

Whether, in respect of the Ballarat Institute of Advanced Education, the Bal­larat Teachers College and the Creswick School of Forestry, he will ascertain and inform the House of the detailed breakdown of budgeted recurrent expenditure of each college?

Mr. AMOS (Morwell) asked the Minister of Education-

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister Education).-The answer is-

Budgeted expenditure for recurrent funds academic year 1972.

Budget expenditure c!assification

Teaching stalf (full-time and part-time) Salaries and superannuation of teaching staff .. Salaries and superannuation of support staff .. Other, including expenses associated with teaching staff

Sub-total

Administrative and general overheads Salaries and superannuation of administrative and clerical staff Other including expenses associated with administrative staff

including office and examination expenses . . . .

Sub-total

Lihraries Salaries and superannuation of library staff . . . . Books, pamphlets, periodicals, binding and other acquisition costs

Sub-total

Halls of residence Salaries and superannuation of staff-domestic and other .. Other operating expenses-including expenses associated with staff

Sub-total

Buildings, premises and grounds Salaries and superannuation of maintenance staff . . . . Equipment and furnishings ($2,000 and less) except where part

of a building project . . . . . . . . . . Rents, rates, power, lighting, heating . . . . . . Other, including expenses as')ociated with maintenance staff,

repairs, minor alterations, general maintenance assurance ..

Sub-total

Miscellaneous expenditure Student services (guidance, health, housing etc.) including

salaries and superannuation of guidance staff . . . . Salary ancillary charges for pay-roll tax, workers compensation,

long service leave etc. .. . . . . . . . . Other miscellaneous expenditure . . . . . . . .

Sub-total

Total

Ballarat Institute of Advanced

Education

$

599,892 74,954 43,310

718,156

51,176

26,913

78,089

39,806 33,388

73,194

1,836 .. 1,836

41,132

39,508 17,160

24,900

122,700

6,891

57,618 3,182

67,691

1,061,666

School of Forestry, Creswick

$

43,850 5,382 4,700

53,932

5,100

8,440

13,540

1,000 950

1,950

16,030 11,140

27,170

5,460

500 1,365

6,810

14,135

.. 1,865

200

2,065

112,792

of

NOTE.-The Ballarat Institute of Advanced Education is a multi-level complex. For comparative purposes the above figures are tertiary level only. Non-tertiary funds available for 1972 are $678,000.

Teachers' colleges are centrally financed from the Education Department and have no specific individual budgets. Lecturers and teachers' salaries (including ancillary charges), which are the main item of expense, will cost of the order of $449,000 for Ballarat Teachers College for 1972 at the current fortnightly rate.

3918 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

VICTORIAN INLAND MEAT AUTHORITY.

MEAT DELIVERIES TO COUNTRY BUTCHERS.

(Question No. 834)

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara) asked the Minister of Lands, for the Minister of Agriculture-

Whether the Victorian Inland Meat Autho­rity intends ceasing deliveries to country butchers in certain areas; if so-(a) what are the reasons for ceasing deliveries and what has been the cost in 'each of the past five years; (b) what areas will be affected; (c) whether the authority has held discus-

B B

aHarat works endigo works

Total loss

.. ..

. . . .

.. . .

1967--68

$

· . 3,123 · . 4,137

· . 7,260

During Ithat time the number of butchers delivered to has been-

1967-68 1968-69 1969-70 1970-71 1971-72 27 28 28 22 21

Of the current 21 butchers being served several only require deliveries on a very irregular basis.

(b) The areas to be affected are those outside the cities of Ballarat and Bendigo.

These are-ex Ballarat: Beaufort, Skipton, Cres­

wick, Mollongghip.

ex Bendigo: Bridgewater, Inglewood, Wedderburn, K:orong Vale, Boort, Charlton, Heathcote, Broadford, Yea, Goornong, Elmore, Raywood.

(c) The authority has not held discussions regarding the cessation of deliveries with the butchers concerned because it was con­sidered that the decision was one for management and not one for negotiation.

(d) The Minister will not undertake to see that meat deliveries are continued until the authority has consulted all of the butchers likely to be affected because the butchers have been given sufficient time in which to arrange alternative transportation but any particular case of hardship would be considered by the authority.

sions with the butchers concerned regarding the cessation of deliveries; if not, why; and (d) whether the Minister will undertake to see that meat deliveries are not stopped until the authority has consulted all of the butchers likely to be affected?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answers supplied by the Minister of Agriculture are-

Yes, the authority has terminated its deliveries to country butchers outside the cities of Ballarat and Bendigo.

(a) The reason for discontinuing these deliveries has been one of economics. The losses incurred over the past five years have been-

1968--69 1969-70 1970-71 1 7 month., 1971-72

$ $ $ $

3,165 3,490 3,307 1,404 4,737 5,653 6,171 4,189

7,902 9,143 9,478 5,593

MOTOR VEHICLES. UNROADWORTHY CARS INVOLVED IN

ACCIDENTS.

(Question No. 837)

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Chief Secretary-

How many cars involved in serious acci­dents during 1971 were found to be unroad­worthy at the time of the accident?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The answer is~

One hundred and eleven.

MEL80URNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS.

RATES: CONTROL OF DRAINS.

(Question No. 852)

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. What was the rate revenue of the Mel­bourne and Metropolitan Board of Works in each of its past four financial years?

2. What percentage increase in rates was made in those years?

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] on Notice. 3919

3. Whether the board controls a large drain situated in Haig Avenue, Coburg, and which extends south into Brunswick; if so -( a) where such drain commences and terminates; (b) what is the diameter and when it was first constructed; and (c) what additional water has been directed into the drain since construction?

4. Whether the board controls a large drain situated in Reynard Street, Coburg, and which extends approximately south; if so-(a) where such drain commences and terminates; (b) what is its diameter and when it was first constructed; and (c) what is the diameter of three or more connecting drains constructed by the Coburg City Council which direct waters into the board's drain?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The Minister for Local Government has supplied the follow­ing answers:-

1. The income received by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works from rates in each of the last four financial years was-

1967-68 1968-69 1969-70 1970-71

$ 33,598,964 38,251,021 44,750,420 54,338,045

2. The total of rates in the dollar of net annual value varied from the previous year by the following percentages:-1967-68 Increased by 9·8 per cent 1968-69 Increased by 9·9 per cent 1969-70 Decreased by 7·2 per cent

(Note-valuations of proper­ties increased this year fol­lowing a general re-valuation by the Valuer-General)

1970-71 Increased by 15·0 per cent 3. The drain referred to is the Melbourne and Metropolitan Bo·ard of Works' Melville main drain. (a) The Melbourne and Metropolitan

Board of Works drain outfalls at the Moonee Ponds Creek north of Albion Street, Brunswick, and ter­minates at the junction of two council branch drains near the intersection of Derby and Shedden Streets, Coburg. All drainage up­stream of the board's drain is the responsibility of the Coburg council.

(b) At its outfall the drain is lO-ft. dia­meter. At the termination of the board's control it is 4 ft. 6 in. dia­meter. Along Haig Street, Coburg, the drain is partly 6-ft. diameter -and partly 'a rectangular dr.ain 10 ft. 8 in. wide x 5 feet deep. Con­struction of -the present drain was under.taken in stages over 'a num­ber of years.

Apart from the lower end which extends from Moonee Ponds Creek to a point east of McLean Street, Brunswick, and which was con­structed in 1968, the balance of the board's drain was constructed between 1930 and 1946.

(c) No water from another catchment has been diverted to this drain with the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works approval. However, the council has the right to con­nect all stormwater shed from within the natural catchment area to the board's main drain.

4. (a) The board controls the Coonan's Road main drain which extends from its outfall at the Moonee Ponds Creek south of Moreland Road in the City of Brunswick up to the south building line of Reynard Street, City of Coburg. All drainage up­stream of the end of the board's drain is the responsibility of the Coburg council.

(b) The diameter of the board's drain varies from 5-ft. diameter at its outlet to 3 ft. 3 in. diameter at its termination.

The present dra-in was constructed in stag-es with the upper 'section from Wood­lands Avenue to Reynard Street, Coburg being constructed in 1953.

(c) Three council dJ'lains enter the board's drain at its termination. A 2 ft. 6 in. diameter drain carrying the main line of drainage upstream of Reynard Street and two 1 ft. 3 'in. diameter pipes carrying local drain'ageenter fmm the east 'and west.

DAREBIN CREEK AREA: CONNECTION TO SEWERAGE SYSTEM.

(Question No. 853)

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston) asked the Minister of Transport, for the Minister for Local Government-

Whether in view of the danger of acd­dental po'-isoning of Darebin Creek in the south-east corner of the City of Preston he will make representations to have this area connected to the Melbourne and Metro­politan Board of Works sewerage system this financial year?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-The answer supplied by the Minister for Local Government is-

Neither the Government nor the Mel­bourne 'and Metropolitan Bo-ard of Works is aware of any poisonous discharges into the Darebin Creek from the area in question.

A preliminary estimated cost ·of providing sewers in this area is $400,000. This work could not be undertaken in view of the limited funds available.

3920 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SUITABILITY OF POLICE LAUNCHES.

(Question No. 858)

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether lany repO'rt has been received rega,rding the suitability of police launches particularly the Bartender type, which patrO'I PO'rt PhillIp Bay; if SO'-( a) what are the fin~ings. in this report; and (b) whether actIOn IS proposed to modify O'r replace these craft and, in that event, whatactiO'n?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­The answer is-

NO'. HO'wever, alt the suggestiO'n O'f a Marine BO'ard surveyO'r, minO'r mO'dificatiO'ns were made to' the launches tO'wards the end of last year, to ensure that they fully cO'nfO'rmed to' the board's safety require­ments. NO' further 'actiO'n is proposed.

NO' consideratiO'n is currently being given to further modifying O'r replacing these vessels.

ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION ACT.

COMMENCEMENT.

(QuestiO'n No. 859)

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg) asked the Attorney-General, for the Minister for State Development-

What is the date fixed fO'r the cO'mmence­ent O'f the provisions of the Environment Protection Act 1970?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­The answer supplied on behalf of the Minister for State Development is-

No date has been fixed.

PENSIONERS.

FACILITIES FOR DENTAL AND OPTICAL

TREATMENT.

(QuestiO'n NO'. 860)

Mr. AMOS (Morwell) asked the Minister of Health-

What f.acilities 'are available to' pensioners living in country 'areas to enable them to receive dental land optical treatment without cost O'r without the necessity of travelling long distances?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health). -The answer is-

1. The larger country hospitals provide a limited range of dental and optical treat­ments either free or at nO'minal rates to pensioners and indigent patients.

2. Dental treatment is usually confined to extracti.ons and conservative work; eye treatment IS confined larg·ely to' testing and prescribing. It is nO't the policy of these hospitals to provide dentures or spectacles. Local suppliefls generally charge lower rates to' pensioners.

3. The question of providing comprehen­sive dental 'care for 'all public patients has wide financial 'and O'ther implications. The G<?vernment is considering its policy towards thIS matter.

ABSENCE OF MINISTER.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-The Minister of Transport has been good enough to inform me that he had a long-standing commit­ment for this afternoon at this time and will not be present for half an hour.

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE.

CRIME PREVENTION.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Will the Chief Secretary give considera­tion to calling a conference of interested parties to try to find a solution to the ever increasing crime rate? I have in mind interested parties such as the police, muni­cipalities, business interests, includ­ing representatives of service stations because they seem to be prime targets, and other bodies who may be able to contribute something in co­operation with the Police Force and the Chief Secretary's Department in reducing the ever increasing crime rate.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I take it the honorable member is referring to the number of armed robberies committed at banks and petrol filling stations. Discussions of the kind he envisages have already been held with representatives of the petrol filling stations with a view to increasing and improving security and improving co-operation with the Police Force when these robberies occur. I have already directed the Chief Commissioner of Police to call a similar conference with bank managements and representatives of bank officials to determine what can be done to improve security at banks and to improve co-operation with the

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] without Notice. 3921

police in the detection of these crimes. I am confident that this will prove productive.

PENTRIDGE GAOL. Mr. MUTTON (Coburg).-I ask

the Minister for Social Welfare whether, in view of the recent escapes, unrest and apparent dissen­sion that has occurred within the Pentridge Gaol, he is prepared to submit to this House a Ministerial statement.

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-The incidents which have occurred at Pentridge Gaol within the past two months have been reported in the press and when the whole prison system and its history are considered, they are not unusual. What has been unusual is the amount of pUblicity given to these incidents. I have made frank and open comments in answer to any question asked of me in the House or by the media, for that matter, and I know of no reason to make any fuller statement than that which I have already made to the House.

MILDURA POLICE.

Mr. SHILTON (Midlands).-Will the Chief Secretary advise the House of the result of the investigation con­ducted quite recently by two senior police officers into the police ad­ministration in Mildura?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­No doubt the honorable member is referring to the complaint alleged against one member of the Victoria Police Force stationed at Mildura. This matter has been investigated by two senior officers of the force in accordance with custom.

Mr. WILKEs.-They were not very senior.

Mr. HAMER.-They were fairly senior. They were the usual ones. I understand their report is before the Chief Commissioner at present. I have not seen it but I will inform the honorable member of the result as soon as 1 can.

PRESTON NORTH-EAST PRIMARY SCHOOL LIBRARY.

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston).-Can the Minister of Education inform the House whether, because of the inadequate design of the Preston North-east Primary School library which resulted in flood damage occurring there recently, the school committee will be required to meet the financial commitments twice for this building?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-No, they will not. 1 am aware of the fault in the design which caused flooding in the library and 1 consider that it would be unfair to ask the school committee to meet its commitment twice.

RURAL RECONSTRUCTION SCHEME.

Mr. TREWIN (Benalla).-As the Minister of Lands last week attended a conference in Canberra regarding the rural reconstruction scheme, will he inform the House of the outcome of those discussions and whether they were beneficial to Victoria?

Mr. BORTHWICK ,(Minister of Lands) .-1 could take up the rest of question time if I went into great detail but to inform the House of what happened at the conference, I will just make these points: Officers of all States and the Commonwealth met on two occasions prior to the conference held on Friday. That conference was adjourned for at least a further two weeks and officers of the States and the Commonwealth will meet again on Friday of this week in Canberra. As yet there have been no conclusions reached on any of the matters listed on the agenda for last Friday's conference. This is largely because the Bureau of Agri­cultural Economics has supplied the conference with a vast array of detailed figures with most involved calculations which will take a con­siderable time for the officers and the Ministers to study prior to the con­ference reconvening.

3922 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

VICTORIAN RAILWAYS. Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).­

Does the Premier propose to hand over the Victorian Railways lock, stock and barrel to any Common­wealt Government which is prepared to accept them, and if there is a Com­monwealth Government which will accept them, will there be any costs or strings attached to that handover?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 think the honorable member is being facetious about this. 1 pointed out to the Prime Minister and the Treasurer of the day that the Victorian Railways are the greatest chain around the neck of the Vic­torian B~~get. This financial year, after wrItmg off considerable sums the Victorian Railways will los~ approximately $29 million. It is not a question of taking over the Victorian Railways; it is a question of taking over the $29 million. If any Com­monwealth Government, left or right, is prepared to do that, 1 am in the market.

GLENROY SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL. Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­

Following recent statements con­cerning additional finance which has been made available to the Minister of Education and the effect that that allocation will have upon the build­ing programme within the depart­ment, can the Minister inform the House whether the building of the senior high school at Glenroy has been given a higher priority, especi­ally in view of the present serious shortage of accommodation and staff in the five feeder schools originally designated for this senior high school?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-Priority has been given to the building of schools in areas that have no schools and to the replacement of outmoded and obso­lete buildings, the majority of which are in the suburban area. After this has been done, the question of the establishment of experimental senior high schools will be reviewed.

REGIONAL DIRECTORS OF EDUCATION.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-Is the Minister of Edu­cation in a position to define the duties and responsibilities of the regional directors of education who were recently appointed by him?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The regional directors were appointed for an experimental period before their duties were clearly defined. We asked them to take over on 1st January and have regular consultations with the Assistant Director-General, Mr. Moore, with a view to having their activities and responsibilities more clearly defined by the end of this financial year.

. The first aim-it is of particular Importance-was that of taking over the expenditure of a large share of the maintenance money which at pre:sent is supervised by head office. ThIS system has been operating successfully in New South Wales and it will take up a good deal of their time. The second aim is to achieve a greater degree of co­operation between primary, secon­dary and technical schools in country areas. A third aim will be the supervision of the conduct of in­service training facilities within their regions, and finally the making of recommendations on other areas of control which could be suitably exercised by them.

TAXATION PAYMENTS BY VISITING TEACHERS.

Mr. AMOS (Morwell).-I direct a question to the Minister of Education: Are taxation instalments deducted from the salaries of American and British teachers now working in Vic­torian schools?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The same rules that ap­ply to other visitors, such as visiting professors in universities and people staying for a limited period in this country, are applied to Canadian. American and British teachers.

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] without Notice. 3923

DOCTORS' FEES. Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).­

Has the Minister of Health noted reports that his Federal counterpart has suggested that one way in which to control doctors' fee increases is by the use of State Governments' price fixing regulations; if so, does the hon­orable gentleman intend to raise this matter with his Cabinet colleagues in an attempt to control these in­creases?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-1 have noted those com­ments and do not intend to take fur­ther action.

PRISON SOCIAL WORKERS. Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East).

-Is the Minister for Social Welfare aware that no social workers are em­ployed in the Prisons Division of the Social Welfare Department and that Victoria is the only State that does not have permanent social workers in its prisons? In view of the pro­vision in the Social Welfare Act specifically stating that one of the functions of--

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member should ask the question.

Mr. BORNSTEIN.-Can the Mini­ster explain why no social workers are employed by the Prisons Division?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare) .-The honorable member is correct when he states that no social workers are employed by the Prisons Division of the Social Welfare Department. However, a great many social workers are em­ployed by the department, and the Family Welfare Section attends to the welfare of prisoners' families.

ASSEMBLY HALL AT WILLIAMSTOWN HIGH SCHOOL.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).­Does the Minister of Education recall that in October last, both in the House and in correspondence, he gave an assurance to me that, despite the apprehension of the advisory council

and the parents' committee of the Williamstown High School, the as­sembly hall would be opened by Christmas? However, because of bungling and incompetence, the as­sembly hall was not opened by Christmas. The honorable gentleman assured me that it would be opened after the holidays, but is he now aware that the same bungling and in­competence have prevented the open­ing of the assembly hall?

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! A question of ad­ministration should be asked and there should be no comment or set speech on the matter. The honorable member should ask the question.

Mr. FLOYD.-I had completed my question, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER.-The honorable member should ask the Minister whether he is aware of something that is not proper.

Mr. FLOYD.-Mr. Speaker, as you are so particular about questions from the Opposition side and answers from the Government side of the' House-short from the Opposition side and long from the Government side-when is the assembly hall going to be opened?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The first question was the easier, actually. I was not aware of the position until I was forcibly and fully informed of it by the hon­orable member for Williamstown. r regret that the hall is not ready to be opened, but will obtain an ur­gent report on the matter and discuss it with the honorable member.

WATER STORAGE PROJECTS. Mr. TREWIN (Benalla).-Can the

Minister of Water Supply inform the House whether he has made any pro­gress with the list of water storage projects in this State to be presented to the Federal Government, and whether the Buckland River storage is sufficiently high on the list to attract attention?

3924 Questions [ASSEMBLY. ] without Notice.

Mr. DUNSTAN (Minister of Water Supply) .-A number of submissions have been made to the Australian Water Resources Council funds for the national water development programme 1971-1974. In making these submissions, the Water Com­mission does not give anyone a higher priority than another.

With regard to the second part of the question, I point out that a sub­mission was made to the Australian Water Resources Council, about the middle of last year, concerning the construction of a dam on the east branch of the Buckland River. As yet, the Government has received no indication of what consideration the Commonwealth has given to that application. As soon as an indication is received, I shall be happy to advise the House and the honorable mem­ber for Benalla accordingly.

PRIMARY TEACHING STUDENTS HIPS.

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland).­I address a question to the Minister of Education. Is it a fact that appli­cants for entry to primary teachers' colleges from technical schools must now complete form VII.? If so, what is the reason?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-For the past two years, it has been necessary for students to complete matriculation to enter the Diploma of Teaching three-year course. The department had such first-class applicants for teaching that it was possible to introduce this qualifying level in the interests of raising standards. Victoria is the only State in Australia in which all entrants to teachers' training colleges at primary level have been success­ful matriculants or have obtained the higher school certificate. Actually, 70 per cent of these students would have been eligible for entrance to the universities, using the quota standards as the criteria. The cross application of this principle to students who have

been studying in technical schools requires them to complete a course at the level indicated by the honor­able member for Portland.

COMMONWEALTH CONSTITUTION.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).­I address a question to the Attorney­General. At the first preliminary meeting to discuss a convention on the Commonwealth Constitution, will the honorable gentleman raise the matter of inviting representatives from New Zealand to attend the meetings with the long-term view of encouraging New Zealand to join the Commonwealth of Australia?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­It might be a little premature to con­sider inviting New Zealand at this stage, but the question asked by the honorable member for Moonee Ponds will be noted and examined by me.

GREENSBOROUGH BRANCH OF' LIBERAL PARTY.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) .-Has the Attorney-General received representations from the Greens­borough branch of the Liberal Party complaining about the take-over of that organization by the Eric Butler League of Rights?

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I must rule that question out of order.

ESSENDON AIRPORT. Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­

Has the Premier made the repre­sentations he agreed to make to the Prime Minister in relation to a Com­monwealth decision on the future of Essendon Airport?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 have taken up this matter with the Prime Minister and, as recently as yesterday, received from the honorable gentleman a third letter on the subject. The gist of the

Questions [7 MARCH, 1972.] without Notice. 3925

letter was that at present a Common­wealth committee is examining the future of Essendon Airport but to date there has been no alteration or change in its use.

MINI-BIKES. Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston).-

In view of the concern felt by muni­cipal councils and individuals over the complex question of mini-bikes, what are the Chief Secretary's inten­tions in regard to legislation to con­trol their use in Victoria?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­There is an increasing number of mini­bikes-also called fun bikes-in use in this State and I believe in every other State. There is no question that their use in some public reserves, including foreshores and forests, represents a danger to the environ­ment and also to people using those reserves. The Government is closely examining the question whether these machines should be registered because of the danger to life and limb, and also whether some severe restraint should be placed on their use in public reserves, parks and foreshores. The Minister of Lands has this matter in hand, and I am examining the question of registration.

SECONDARY TEACHERS. Mr. E. W. LEWIS (Dundas).­

I direct a question to the Minister of Education. In view of the extreme shortage of secondary teachers in rural areas, are efforts being made to obtain teachers from overseas for these schools, and when can relief be expected?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The question assumes that there is an extreme shortage of teachers in rural areas. This year, after replacing teachers who resigned or retired, 300 more teachers were needed to cater for the additional pupils in the Secondary Division. In fact, 800 teachers were appointed, so that on an average every one of the 250 or 260 high schools has two addi­tional teachers over and above the

Session 1972.-138

number last year. If the honorable member has in mind a particular school with specific subject worries, I shall be pleased to examine it.

DECENTRALIZATION. Mr. AMOS (Morwell).-Has the

Premier received a report of the find­ings of the joint meetings between Commonwealth and State officers on decentralization? If so, will he make copies of the report available to other honorable members?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 am unable to answer that question, but I will make inquiries.

TOTALIZATOR DISBURSEMENTS. Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).­

Is the Chief Secretary aware of a comment made at yesterday's Asian racing conference in Melbourne that Government action to increase pay­ments from off-course and on-course betting in Victoria to assist racing further would be welcome? If so, will consideration be given to the appOintment of a board of inquiry to determine future disbursements of Totalizator Agency Board proceeds?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I have seen that comment. No con­sidera tion has been given to any such move.

TRAVEL VOUCHERS FOR PRISONERS' RELATIVES.

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East). -In view of what the Minister for Social Welfare said in the House on 10th November last, that visits by relatives to youth trainees and prisoners are encouraged, can the honorable gentleman explain why free travel vouchers are made avail­able to relatives of youth trainees but not to relatives of prisoners?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister for Social Welfare).-This is a compli­cated question. By and large, youth trainees are held in institutions close to the city. Therefore. there is greater need for travel vouchers,

3926 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

particularly for country people to the city. On the other hand, thirteen prisons are well scattered around the State and if prisoners are imprisoned for more than three months they go before the assessment and classifica­tion panel at Pentridge and they are placed in the most appropriate prison.

Although some of these prisoners are great security risks, we try to place them in prisons nearest to where their relatives can visit them. However, there are other 'cases that we would be prepared to examine where the circumstances are ex­tenuating and the prisoners have not had visits from their family for reasons of the poverty of the family.

HELICOPTER AMBULANCE SERVICES.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).­Can the Minister of Health inform me whether his department has con­sidered subsidizing the continuance of the Peninsular Helicopter Ambu­lance Service?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-This is not a matter for the Department of Health but for the Hospitals and Charities Commission, within whose area of responsibility it comes. The Government has con­sidered helicopter ambulance services generally throughout the State, but they are too expensive. The cost is $60,000 a year in standby fees, and two pilots must be on duty for 24 hours a day, every day.

The commission is investigating some aspects of the helicopter ambulance services that are now operating in West Germany. A member of the Hospitals and Charities Commission will be overseas attend­ing the Kiev Gerontology Congress and he will also make an investiga­tion into the helicopter services there. The West German operation func­tions not just on State moneys; there is a large influx of private money from insurance companies that have

a vested interest in getting people to hospital quickly and keeping them alive. That aspect is also being examined.

LEGALIZING OF TWO-UP. Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).­

In view of the popularity of two-up and the large number of people who are continually being prosecuted for playing this game, can the Chief Secretary inform me if the Govern­ment will investigate whether this game can be played legally in clubs just as many other card games are played legally in racing clubs and so on?

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I am not aware of any game of this sort which is played legally in a club. These games are covered by the general prohibition in the Lotteries Gaming and Betting Act. I certainly would not support the legalization of two-up at the present time.

REDUCTION OF VOTING AGE. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Can the Premier in­form me whether he has received any and if so what representations and from what groups seeking the exten­sion of voting rights to citizens between eighteen and twenty years of age; and if so, what has been the response of the Premier and the Gov­ernment to those representations?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-It is a strange fact that as of today I have not received a single application from any group known or unknown in this State seeking the reduction of the voting age to eighteen years. The only approaches I have had have been from my own Liberal Party. I have never had an indication, for example, from the Labor Party or the Country Party on this matter.

In fact, when one analyses the situation one finds that during the last sessional period or the session before that, the Government introduced a measure reducing the voting age for

Questions without Notice. [7 MARCH, 1972.] Mental Health Authority. 3927

ratepayers in the municipalities to eighteen years. To the best of my knowledge I have not received one application or request from any organization in this State, be it political or otherwise, to reduce the voting age to eighteen years.

TELEPHONES AT MENTAL HOSPITALS.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) .­I direct a question to the Premier and Treasurer. Has any action been taken to cancel the Treasury direction issued through the Department of Health to the Mental Health Author­ity, which caused the cutting off of the outside telephone lines at mental hospitals, particularly at Plenty and Mont Park, to which I adverted last week in Parliament?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier and Treasurer) .-1 suggest that the ques­tion be put on the Notice Paper becaus·e I am sure the Treasury would not know whether there was an instruction to cut off telephones here, there or anywhere else. If the hon­orable member cares to put the question on the Notice Paper he will receive an answer, but off the cuff I would say that the Treasury would not be interested in being so mean on such a petty item.

FAIR CONSUMER CREDIT LAWS. REPORT BY LAW COUNCIL OF

AUSTRALIA.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).­By leave, I move-

That there be laid before this House a copy of the report on fair consumer credit laws to the Honorable G. O. Reid, Q.C., M.L.A., Attomey-General for the State of Victoria by a committee of the Law Council of Australia.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General) pre­sented a report in compliance with the foregoing order.

.It was ordered that the report be laId on the tahle and be printed.

MENTAL HEALTH AUTHORITY. PROVISION OF FINANCE.

Mr. LIND (Dandenong).-I wish to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the failure of the Government to take steps to provide adequate finance for the proper functioning of the Mental Health Authority.

Approval of the proposed discus­sion was indicated by the required number of members rising in their places, as specified in Standing Order No. SB.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-Mr. Speaker, 1 raise a point of order. In putting the Govern­ment's views on why debate should not proceed on the motion moved by the honorable member for Dan­denong, I base my argument, firstly, on urgency; secondly, on the wording of the motion; and, thirdly, on the premise that the matter could be raised at any time dur­ing the debate on Supply because a debate on an adjournment motion on matters of budgetary importance tends only to delay the proper functioning of the House.

The motion contains the phrase U to take steps" , and one wonders exactly what that means in Parlia­mentary procedures and in Parlia­mentary vocabulary, or even in the English vocabulary as used in this House. If the phrase refers to some sort of action or inaction, why then was it not spelt out? As it has not been, the motion must fall in that degree.

The word U proper" is used where­as 1 suggest that the correct word should be U efficient". Again, the motion falls down in that respect. The motion also contains the words "to provide adequate finance for the proper functioning of the Mental Health Authority". Surely that is a Budget matter and one for either the last Budget or the next Budget. If it is not a Budget matter, it comes

3928 Mental Health [ASSEMBLY. ] Authority.

under Supply; and a debate on Supply will be coming forward in Commit­tee of the whole House.

The wording of the motion allows too many imponderables to be at the will and the whim of the Opposi tion and I suggest that you, Mr. Speaker, should reject it.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-On the point of order; you, Mr. Speaker, have ruled on the question of urgency on many occasions, and I remind you of those rulings. The recent report of the Mental Health Authority directs attention to grave problems in health administration, and the Opposition will rest its case on those problems. At this stage, it would be improper for me to argue the merits and demerits of the report.

The only other substantive ques­tion raised by the Minister is that at some stage some of these matters may be discussed during the Supply debate. Again you, Mr. Speaker, have ruled quite specifically on this matter. Although Supply is listed on the Notice Paper, the Government has not suggested that the debate is scheduled for today. In view of the precedents and the reasons which I have outlined, I suggest that the motion is clearly in order and that the attack made upon it is based on semantics and out of line with rulings from the Chair.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I support the point of order raised by the Minister of Health. The question is not whether a motion of this kind could be more happily worded but whether it should be debated now or whether there will be a suitable opportunity of debating it within the near future. It is clearly established in the procedures of the House of Commons and of this House that where an opportunity will occur in any event within the near future, it is anticipation to allow a motion of this nature and that such a motion should be ruled out of order. I refer you, Sir, to the seventeenth edition of May at page 365, where it

is said that a motion has been refused when an ordinary Parliamentary opportunity will occur shortly or in time.

Last week, the Treasurer intro­duced Supply and made a very broad economic statement covering the whole range of Government finance in this State. It cannot be argued that, in debating Supply, it will not be open for the honorable member for Dandenong or any other honor­able member to raise the ques­tion of the allocation of finance as between one department and another. This opportuni ty will arise within a short time. As the Premier has intimated, the Supply debate will be brought on earlier if the Opposition so desires. There is a threat that the House will cover the same ground twice, which is the whole purpose of the rule against anticipation. There are numerous precedents.

As the allocation of Government funds between one department and another can never be an isolated matter, it must be considered in the whole context of the allocation of the total funds available and not sitnply as a matter relating to the Mental Health Authority. If the authority is allocated additional money, another department will probably receive less. Therefore, the most suitable forum for considering the subject­matter of the motion is the Supply debate, which covers the whole field of Government finance.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-In deference to the argument submitted by the Chief Secretary, I suggest that it would be a preposterous situation if, because a Supply debate is listed on the Notice Paper no motion of urgency could be accepted by the House.

Another aspect to be considered is that Supply provides funds !or salaries and administration but not funds for capital works. Many inadequacies existing in the Mental Health Authority were highlighted in the report of the authority. Honor­able members will want to refer to

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3929

these aspects of the report, rather than to the narrow field of wages, salaries and administration, which the Supply debate normally covers. 1 fail to see any relevance in the statement that because Supply appears as an item on the Notice Paper, a debate on a motion of this kind should be prohibited or inhibited.

The motion clearly indicates the contention of the Opposition that the report of the Mental Health Authority, which was tabled in Parliament only last week, should be examined and that the matters raised by Dr. Stoller should be raised at the earliest opportunity, which is today.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier and Treasurer) .-1 support the point of order raised by the Minister of Health. It was quite proper for the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to raise the matters that he has men­tioned, but 1 remind the honorable member that with the changed format of the Budget there is now a Works and Services Account. When intro­ducing Supply last week, 1 reported on the Premiers Conference, and dealt with the whole spectrum of revenue grants, loan funds and even semi-governmental funds and allor.a­tions. The impact of the works pro­gramme, salaries, maintenance and all other expenditure is relevant to any debate, whether the debate relates to Supply or the Budget. 1 extend an open invitation to mem­bers of the Opposition, the Country Party and my own party to debate Supply along those lines. During the debate on Supply, which 1 am prepared to bring on at any time, this subject could be debated and I consider that this is the proper course to follow.

1 point out that you, Mr. Speaker, are in an invidious position because you have had a case presented to you for the House to debate a cer­tainsubject whereas the Supply debate is held in Committee. Even an assurance given by the Leader of the Opposition that this subject will not be rehashed in the Supply debate

means nought, because you are not in the chair to ensure that that pro­mise is carried out. It is historical that the Supply debate is held in Committee-I think it is wrong­and the rules of the Committee are outside your judgment. Therefore, it is difficult for you to rule whether the subject-matter of this motion can be discussed during the Supply debate.

Mr. HOLDING.---It has in the past.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-I do not think the Leader of the Opposition is right. 1 conclude by saying that the Supply debate today does en­compass loan funds, semi-Govern­ment allocations and revenue income and expenditure.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­The Minister of Health was attempt­ing, rather desperately, to establish an argument that the House should not entertain this motion and he started to pick out individual words. 1 submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that the argument of the honorable gentleman was purely his own opinion, and that he would be at liberty to advance these arguments during the debate. However, 1 submit that that does not constitute a reason why the House should not proceed with the debate on this motion.

The honorable member who moved the motion has gained the necessary support and, as the Leader of the Opposition pointed out, the question of urgency has been clearly resolved on previous occasions once it has been indicated that the honorable member concerned has received the required support from other honor­able members. I turn now to the points raised by the Premier. One expects that sort of argument from the Government, which is desperately attempting to dodge the issue. The records of this House reveal that the Premier and other senior Ministers have on many occasions tried to overcome a similar situation , by stating that the Supply debate, which is No. 10 on the Notice Paper, could

3930 M ental Health [ASSEMBLY.] Authority.

be brought on immediately even when it was not the intention of the Gov­ernment to do so.

The honorable member for Dande­nang, being responsible for matters of health on behalf of the Opposition, considers that the situation that exists in the Mental Health Autho­rity is so grave and serious that it should be brought before Parliament at the first opportunity. He has now done that under the forms of the House that have become acceptable. The Government has made it quite clear by putting Supply as item No. 10 on the Notice Paper that it was not its intention to have Supply dealt with today or even tomorrow. The honorable member for Dandenong has not the counsel of the Gov­ernment-he does not enjoy the confidence of the Government -so he takes the Notice Paper to mean what it says. The honorable member .is entitled to assume that Supply wIll not be debated until some time in the future. Because this question is ur­gent, he adopts the only means avail­able to him. Honorable members on the Opposition side of the Chamber support him and therefore the House should take the opportunity of hear­ing the honorable member's argu­ments and, at the same time, give the Minister of Health an opportunity of refuting the arguments that will be advanced by the honorable member.

Mr. SUGGETT (Bentleigh).-I submit the time of the House should not be wasted on what is purely a political exercise. The Treas­urer each year brings forth a Budget of the housekeeping funds required by the various departments for the welfare of the State. Honorable members realize there are cases Where the money supplied is not suffi­cient to meet the various demands of the departments, but this is not a crisis; it is not urgent. I submit that the motion is indefinable and vague in its purport. It refers to adequate funds but does not state what funds are required. If the House is to have this sort of debate every day the Budget allocations of all departments

could be revamped every day. The House has debated the Budget and if it agrees to this type of motion be­ing debated, similar debates will en­sue day after day.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).­I oppose the points of view raised by Government supporters. The most important aspect on this question is that members of the Opposition have, through the honorable member for Dandenong, attempted to bring on a debate on a speCific matter which, under Standing Orders, shall continue for two hours. The urgency of the' matter is one which has been demon­strated by the required number of members of the Opposition rising and supporting the motion. It is our Parliamentary right to have this two­hour debate. It is not right for this subject to be dealt with during the debate on Supply because that de­bate can be adjourned by someone coming into the Chamber and mov­ing that progress be reported. That debate could be reduced to just one speaker a day, whereas on this motion the forms of the House allow the subject-matter to be debated under a set procedure for two hours. It would not be an alternative for the Opposition to discuss the sub­ject on a later occasion in a debate that could be adjourned from time to time because the arguments ad­vanced would lose their full impact. I oppose the points of view which have been raised by Government supporters.

Mr. HAYES (Scoresby).-If the press reports which I have read con­cerning the Mental Health Authority are of substance, this matter should be debated by the Parliament, but I question the wisdom of debat­ing it now. When the report of the Mental Health Authority was tabled last week, only fifteen to twenty copies were available for honorable members. Honorable members will have difficulty in debating the report if they have not seen it. It is also equally difficult to obtain photostat

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3931

copies and I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to take this into account when you are considering your ruling.

Mr. BIRRELL (Geelong).-On the question of urgency, it has been revealed that the motion for the adjournment of the House has been moved because of the facts revealed in an annual report presented to the House. The report re­ferred to certain activities of the Mental Health Authority and was for the period ended 31st December, 1970. Surely, it is a contradiction in terms to use a report which is fifteen months old as the basis of an urgency motion.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-The remarks of the honorable member for Geelong must have significantly undermined the argument of the Premier. The Premier indicated that the Supply debate would provide an opportunity for this subject to be debated because the honorable gentle­man had used a different format for his Budget by combining loan funds and revenue. The honorable member for Geelong has said that the report, which he suggests is the basis of the motion, was for a period prior to the presentation of the Budget in its new form. Therefore, there will be no opportunity of discussing the matter.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I thank honorable mem­bers for fully debating this matter, because it has allowed all honorable members to be well informed about it.

Urgency is determined by decision of this House by twelve honorable members rising in their places in support. Concerning whether the matter has been brought up within a reasonable time, the Parliament was aware of the contentions made in the report to which reference has been made only on Tuesday last, and I point out that the main contentions in the report are concerned with lack of money in reference to capital works.

Although the wording of the motion could be altered by all honorable members to suit their own styles, I think it is definite enough in terms

of the sort of English used in this House and that we all understand it. I think the wording is acceptable on that score.

I am impressed with the Premier's view that in the Supply debate now, capital, revenue and expenditure items may be raised, but I question that view, because in the Supply debate which has been started, under " Health" the item is for salaries, general expenses and other services, and there is no mention of capital; and in the ruling of Chairman Mibus on 29th April, 1952, which has been a guiding ruling in the Committee of this House, he said-

I direct attention to the fact that the Supply debate must be confined to matters of State administration, and particularly to the items appearing on the Supply sheet. I cannot permit a wide debate on such questions as the raising of loan funds and the imposition of uniform taxation.

When opening the Supply debate, the Premier said-

There is no urgency about the passing of the Supply Bill.

From the chair, taking into account the undoubted rights and privileges of members of this place, the Stand­ing Orders which make provision for this sort of occurrence, and the facts that Supply is No. 10 on the Notice Paper, that the whole context of Committee debate on Supply does not allow discussion of capital items, and that the report is mainly concerned with alleged deficiencies in capital items, I rule that the motion for the adjournment of the House is in order.

Sir HENRY BOLTE ('premier and Treasurer) .-On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, may I ask whether the Chair­man of Committees observes your ruling or makes his own ruling?

The SPEAKER.-The Chairman of Committees will make his own ruling, but I have quoted a ruling made by a former Chairman of Committees.

Mr. LIND (Dandenong).-The Opposition wishes to debate the most blistering report of the Mental Health Authority which arrived in this Parliament only last week. Some

3932 Mental Health [ASSEMBLY.] Authority.

honorable members read it im­mediately it was available from the Parliamentary Library, and if the Minister of Health had not been en­gaged interstate on important de­partmental business, they would have taken the opportunity of raising the matter at once because it was con­sidered to be so important. The report is concerned with the lack of, or inadequacy of, finance; indeed, in­adequate finance is mentioned at least seven times in it.

At page 8 the report states-The authority believes it is the only Gov­

ernment department or instrumentalilty with continuing commitments which has suffered a steady and substantial monetary reduction in its works and services programmes over the past five years.

This is the crux of the matter. If that were not the position, the authority would not make such a re­port and there would be no need to refer to the sums of money concerned and to how they were allocated from the Treasury and by the Minister. The plain fact is that inadequate finance has been made available to the Mental Health Authority, and this has handicapped the authority in carry­ing out its plans. It has also had a snowballing effect throughout the field of mental health, and has meant that far fewer people are receiving the very necessary early treatment that they need. There are many references to that in the report, but it is only necessary to deal with the summary of the report. In fact, only the first three pages of the introduc­tion need to be studied to describe the existing situation. The report states that the authority is being seriously handicapped in its mainten­ance and capital works programmes.

Immediately after the report was issued the press took up the cudgels on behalf of afflicted people and was most critical of the Government's handling of mental health. Most buildings used by the Mental Health Authority appear to be a century old, and the more one examines condi­tions which are suffered by seriously and mildly afflicted people and

Mr. Lind.

the inadequacies in every aspect of mental health, the more the criticism is justified. Custodian control is coming back more and more into this field, whereas a few years ago it was hoped that this sort of control had been abandoned.

All honorable members are proud of the work of the Mental Health Authority over a long period of years, during which great steps forward have taken place; I trust the Minister understands what it means to take steps! However, a stage of despair has now been reached and on a num­ber of occasions throughout the re­port it is indicated that the Mental Health Authority is frustrated and unable to undertake not only the building programme it wishes to carry out but also the medical care pro­gramme, and to make provision for all the things it had planned to help the mentally retarded and afflicted.

Further references to finance are to be found on page 9 of the authority's report. The Government cannot be critical of the authority in this re­spect, because the authority is satis­fied that its financial management is exercised in a reasonable manner, and this has enabled services to be main­tained in the face of increasing pop­ulation and rising costs. It is indeed good to read that the authority has practised good housekeeping. Why then the despair in the authority? It must be that insufficient money is being made available to it and that sufficient encouragement is not being given; that the authority has been led to believe, as has the general public and honorable members, that steps were being taken in all direc­tions to establish institutions to deal with various aspects of mental health. An examination of the report reveals that these plans, hopes and aspirations by the authority have not got off the ground, so to speak, al­though honorable members have heard in this Chamber that they were to have been commenced. The re­port states that because of this the

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3933

authority is unable to make plans. Dealing with finance on page 8, the report states-

The proposed new training centre at Colac, which is currently the key to any improvement in the over-all situation, had been programmed to 'commence in the early part of 1971, but the authority was unable to get anyas'Surance of funds to enable it to proceed in accordance with its pre­determined time-table.

Surely by December, 1970, which is the period referred to in the report, the authority should have had a notion of the amount of finance that was to be made available to it in the years 1971 and 1972, and even 1973, to carry out such a tremendous undertaking as the centre planned for Colac. So important was that centre considered to be that the authority has referred to it as "the key to any improvement" in this field. It does not require any effort to imagine the chagrin of the auth­ority and its officers, who are dedi­cated in their work but are aware that they cannot move on this project because no assurance has been given by the Government on the provision of finance.

In regard to hostels, which all honorable members will agree are a necessary aspect of the treatment of mentally retarded people and their rehabilitation in the community, the report states-

It had been hoped that the situation would also have been able to be alleviated by the purchase of a number of hostels in the community, but this has also not been able to be implemented.

These hostels are important because they are stepping stones in enabling people to return to their own homes, and eventually go out to busi­ness, and meet people, thereby tak­ing their places in the community as useful citizens. The peopJe of Dandenong are proud of one such institution that has been established in that area. However, it is not large enough to cope with the demands being made upon it and it is hoped that its facilities will be increased. It is well known that these hostels mean much to young people who have lost their parents, or have no

way of looking after themselves and are not fit to go out to work in the ordinary way or even to go to a shel­tered workshop. The hostels provide accommodation for these people so that gradually they may become use­ful members of the community. The disappointment of the authority in this regard is expressed fully in the report.

The last of the seven references to finance contained in the report appears on page 9, where the position is summed up in this way:-

It must, however, be categorically stated that continuance of the restrictions involved in capital works and building maintenance programmes will produce serious deteriora­tion in the standard of mental health ser­vices in the State of Victoria.

There could not be plainer words than those regarding the financial situation of the Mental Health Authority. In the introductory pages of the report seven refer-' ences are made to the deplorable financial situation of the authority. The report does not refer to the situation as a steady one, or as being in a state of stalemate, but pOints out that the position is deterio­rating, and sounds a strong note of warning. For that reason, if for no other, the Opposition is justified in criticizing the Government for the manner in which it is handling the finances of the Mental Health Authority.

The authority has planned a number of institutions in Footscray and the western suburbs, at Larundel, and on the Mornington Peninsula, but the report points out that none of these proposals has got off the ground, and none has shown any sign of materializing. Last year the Oppo­sition was critical of the Minister of Health when departmental cuts in finance were discussed in the House. At the time the Opposition asser­ted that the Minister of Health should have been the first person at Cabinet meetings to impress upon his colleagues that he must speak for those people who could not speak for themselves. He should have been loudly declaring that

3934 Mental Health [ASSEMBLY.] Authority.

these financial restrictions should not have been applied to the Mental Health Authority because the people concerned are the least able of any section of the community to look after themselves. Every delay -whether for a week, a month, or a year-in implementing the auth­ority's proposals for new medical and scientific schemes has m'eant a loss to the community in terms not only of finance but also people's lives and usefulness, and every delay adds considerably to human misery. Last year the Minister should have made it clear that this was one de­partment that could not afford to have irksome and cruel financial restrict­ions placed upon it.

If the Mental Health Authority could undertake the schemes that it has planned, it would effect a saving to the State in a number of ways. Early treatment could avoid much long-term hospitalization. The authority has plans in this direction. In criticizing the Government on this matter, the Opposition intends to highlight some of the points made by the authority in its desire to carry out its plans. The authority believes that the best sort of institution it can establish to treat people who are mentally ill or retarded is the all­under-one-roof type of institution, such as the psychia tric clinic at Dandenong, which is attended by in­patients, out-patients and day­patients.

This type of institution has many advantages which are easy to enumerate. Two or three come to mind at once. The ordinary person knows that it is a local establishment It serves a community within that region. People come to know the psy­chiatrist in charge, the staff and the social workers, and gain confidence in them. As a result, patients enter these places voluntarily. They can attend daily and still be with their families. Experience has proved that people attending clinics of this type are not hospitalized for the lengthy periods for which people are hospitalized in 'custodian institutions. They are back as effective members

Mr. Lind.

of the community much sooner. If they break down again, as some do, they can immediately return to the institution.

The authority wanted to establish this type of institution in a number of areas but waS .not able to do so be­cause funds were not made available for that purpose:'ln five. Dr. si?{ places in the report, the authority refers to this active medical programme. It lays stress on the fact that the active medical programme should be compared with the custodian-only programme. To return to the custodian type of institution would be to put back the clock 100 years.

At page 7 of the report the autho­rity states that it had been deter­mined that initial expenditure on community-based mental healtl;l ser­vices reduced the over-all" need for costly institutional beds. All honor­able members will agree that when related to finance, that is soundly based. If there is an initial expendi­ture on community-based health ser­vices, there must be a reduction in the number of costly institutional beds needed to hospitalize people for lengthy periods. The authority makes it plain that there is a need for all to become aware that regional health programmes, and not bed strengths as such, are the criteria on which resources must ultimately be allocated if modern and more effective services are to result. This is the cry in all fields of medicine, particularly geriatriC medicine and mental health. If initial service can be rendered locally and early, the patients can return to the community very much sooner with considerable benefit to themselves, and, most assuredly, with immense benefit to the community.

The authority also refers to what it calls urgently required early treat­ment services such as those projected for Footscray and Geelong. Those services were only projected when this report was published. Honorable members were told that they would be established much earlier than the date of this report.

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3935

At page 9 of its report, the autho­rity refers to early medical care. The report states that, in summary, the authority is facing the fact that, firstly, the sub-standard accommoda­tion has not been entirely removed; secondly, that early treatment ser­vices are not being provided quickly enough; and, thirdly, that the State needs to catch up on previously inadequate bed coverage for mentally retarded persons. In the second part of the report, the authority again states that early treatment services are not being provided quickly enough. This is despite the planning of the authority. Sufficient finance has not been made available for this purpose.

Anyone who has studied this aspect of community health knows that the object of the people working in this field is to reduce the number of patients and reduce the periods during which people are patients. All the advantages claimed for this plan must be fully analysed in order to realize the frustration felt by these people when they can­not proceed with their plans.

Over the past few days, in the newspapers, there have been pictures of old accommodation and all hon­orable members know of wards 14A, 16A and 23 at Kew, as well as the terrible wards at Janefield which should have been demolished long ago and replaced with wards in which more intensive care could be provided and different treatments­therapeutic and recovery-could be given with the use of modern methods.

The community is always grateful when an organization works to bring a particular ward up to date. Service clubs and organizations have done this and everyone takes heart from that. There is a particular place in our hearts for the children, and there is always a greater response to appeals to help children. I sup­pose the most favoured charity in the area I represent is the one which helps retarded children.

However, it must be remembered that not all mentally afflicted people are children; a large number are adults. Many grow to adulthood! from mentally retarded childhood, and many more become patients as they grow older. This stream of patients is added to as a result of car accidents, old age, and various other factors, and there are now many more older people in this category.

The authority feels that a rather unfair comparison has been made between its institutions and other institutions rendering aid in the geriatric field. The authority has a far heavier burden to bear than other organizations. I believe, with it, that the staffing schedule, as compared with that in geriatric hospitals, is weighted against it. Nurses and staff in geriatric hospitals have a difficult task to perform, but it is not as difficult as that of the staff in psycho-geriatric hospitals. I do not suppose one could find a more demanding job than theirs. The geriatric hospitals cannot cope with people who become psycho-geriatric, and these people are passed on to the hospitals under the control of the Mental Health Authority, but the staff-inmates ration is not high enough for the handling of the number of patients.

In the past few months honorable members have heard some sad tales of the amount of over­time worked and of lack of staff. I have reports from a number of union organizers on staff shortages and overtime worked in these insti­tutions. I shall not quote the reports because they have been published in the press, but they show that exces­sive overtime and long shifts are worked. Very often there is only one nurse on duty when there should be more. In some instances, no night staff are available. In other in­stances, where there are people who are criminally inclined as well as mentally afflicted, insufficient staff are available to properly care for them. This is a result of a lack of. finance.

·3936 Mental Health [ASSEMBLY.] Authority.

The authority stated that it had hoped to replace many of the old buildings and to add to its staff. It ·has not been slow to praise the work of its staff, not only the nursing and the domestic staff, but also the staff in various other disciplines. However, the authority has not been able to re­place the people who, for various reasons, have left its employment. Nor has it been able to keep pace with the ever-growing number of people who are entering its institu­tions. It is only to be expected that as the population increases there must be more of these afflicted people in the community. At one stage the Mental Health Authority hoped that the increase in the number of institutional beds would be about 4 per cent per annum. If this increase had been achieved sufficient beds would have been available, but there has con­tinued to be a shortage of beds for the mentally retarded and the mentally afflicted.

The number of children on the urgent and very urgent waiting lists for admittance to Kew Cottages, St. Nicholas and other allied institutions is kept at a reasonable figure of about 450 owing to the hard work of the medical officers concerned, but the total number of young people on the waiting lists exceeds the number in the institutions. This position has not improved for quite a number of years. The Mental Health Authority is justi­fied in expressing concern about this situation.

The supply of beds is one aspect; the supply of buildings is another. The availability of modern, scientific medical treatment is of the utmost importance. I refer to the delay in supplying the necessary buildings and personnel for the treatment of alco­holics, whether voluntary or referred patients. I do not think any honorable member will deny that the longer an alcoholic is kept without treatment the greater the burden he becomes to himself and his family, and th~ :higher is the cost and the loss to the community. In its report, the Mental Health Authority 'expressed concern

Mr. Lind.

at the slow progress being made in the field of alcoholism, and it referred similarly to drug addiction.

Generalized and sweeping state­ments that Victoria has the best service in the world do the State more harm than good, particularly when the statements emanate from high sources and are made overseas. No one denies that some officers of the Mental Health Authority, both administrative and medical, lead the world in their fields. Every now and then one reads with pride and pleasure that one person's research has lifted Victoria right to the top again in a particular field, but gener­ally speaking Victoria has slipped backwards, in the past few years in particular, to the stage where it is not even keeping pace with the demand for treatment of the ment­ally retarded and mentally afflicted.

Members of the Opposition con­sider that the Government should be taken to task on this matter and that the Minister should ensure that the funds made available to him and his department are allocated in a proper fashion so that the Mental Health Authority is not left lamenting.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-This debate is a year too late because a report was presented at the end of 1970 based on the Mental Health Authority's actions. This debate is not concerned with the lateness of the presentation of that report to this House. Mr. Speaker ruled on the meaning or wording of the adjournment motion. The debate and the attack are based on the pro­vision of inadequate finance to the Mental Health Authority.

Mr. WILTON .-And the Minister's inefficiency.

The SPEAKER ,(Sir Vernon Christie). - Order! The Minister should be heard in silence, as was the honorable member for Dandenong.

Mr. ROSSITER.-The Opposition's case was stated by the honorable member for Dandenong, who referred to seven points in the report dated

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3937

31st December, 1970. Those points related to 1970 and before-not to 1971 and after.

The honorable member stated that the Mental Health Authority "has slipped backwards" and " is not even keeping pace". Those statements must relate to the period only up to 31 st December, 1970. I refer to figures supplied by the Treasury and which I intend to read.

Mr. HOLDING.-The Opposition will give you leave for them to be in­corpora ted in Hansard.

Mr. ROSSITER.-No, I want to read them. The total annual vote for mental hygiene from 1963-64 to 1970-71 was as follows:-

1963-64 1964-65 1965-66 1966-67 1967-68 1968-69 1969-70 1970-71

$ 15,581,937 16,462,610 18,022,214 19,200,000 20,600,000 22,100,000 24,300,000 27,700,000

Do those figures show a sliding back?

Mr. HOLDING.-Is this total ex­penditure?

Mr. ROSSITER.-I have said that it is the total vote for mental hygiene. The estimated figure for the year 1971-72 is $32·3 million.

The total vote for those years, in­cluding works and services, was as follows:-

1963-64 1964-65 1965-66 1966-67 1967-68 1968-69 1969-70 1970-71 1971-72

mated) (esti-

$ 19·4 million 21 . 1 million 23 . 7 million 24·7 million 26 . 1 million 27·3 million 29·7 million 32 ·4 million

37·3 million

The Opposition's case collapses on two grounds-firstly, it was based on the authority's report only up to 31st

December, 1970; and, secondly, the figures I have read do not show any sliding back or regression.

Mr. BORNSTEIN .-Is the Minister calling the Chairman of the Mental Health Authority a liar?

Mr. ROSSITER.-That is the sort of question one expects from the un­stable and immature honorable mem­ber for Brunswick East. I should not under any circumstances refer to the Chairman of the Mental Health Authority as a liar because he always tells the truth, as he did in his report for the year ended 31st December, 1970. The honorable member for Dandenong has sedulously referred to matters in the report requiring effort by the Mental Health Authority and the Government. This effort has been evident since 31st December, 1970, through 1971 and the first quarter of 1972. I refer now to capital works in the alcoholic and drug dependency programme. Firstly, there is the building of the assessment centre at Pleasant View; secondly, the remodelling of the detoxification centre at Collingwood is well advanced.

During the conference of State Ministers of Health a report on alcoholism was presented by the officers to the Ministers of the States and the Commonwealth. This report has been accepted by the State Ministers, and the Federal Minister has given an assurance that his officers will examine it with a view to assisting the States. I remind the House that in due course after 31st December, 1970, when these grave matters were pointed out by the Mental Health Authority, I placed the matter before this House. At this stage, honorable members are not discussing the lateness of the report or the delay in its reaching the House.

Honorable members interjecting.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorabie member for Brunswick East is con­tinually shouting out. I invite him

3938 M ental Health [ASSEMBLY. j Authority.

to cease. The Minister should con­tinue his speech without much inter­jection.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Thank you, Mr. Speaker; I should hav~ pr~fe~red you to say without any InterJectIOn. However that is up to the House. I shall ~ow refer to the series of improvements made as a result of the report of 31st December, 1970.

Mr. WILKES.-Stop thumping the table.

Mr. ROSSITER.-That is the first time I have banged the desk since I have been a member of the House. If the honorable member for North­cote wishes I shall copy more of the actions of inembers of the Opposi­tion in thumping the table so assidu­ously that it would not be possible to plane it smooth.

A psychiatrist superintendent has been appointed to the Geelong area. An out-patients and day hospital facility will shortly be opened in that area. Work has started on the Colac centre; stage 1 has been autho­rized by the Treasury and the project is proceeding with great expedition. Members of the Opposition are amazed at that statement, and they show their amazement by some sort of hollow laughter. They forget that they have based their case on the report of the Mental Health Authority for the year ended 31st December, 1970.

Building alterations have begun at the Kingsbury Adult Training Centre. The 1971 financial restrictions have been eased. Temporary staff restric­tions have been lifted, and Treasury clearances have been given for new positions at Bendigo and for the alcoholism services. These are not backsliding but forward and progres­sive moves. Up to ten or fifteen years ago the Mental Health Authority had a history of a century of neglect and some of the problems caused by this neglect cannot be overcome overnight. As Minister of Health, I assure the House that I shall con­tinue to press the Treasurer for funds

to carry out any recommendations in any report of the. Mental. Health Authority, and espeCIally .wIlI I be looking forward to presentmg to the House as soon as possible the report of the authority for the year ended 31st December, 1971. Then the House might hear another adjourn­ment debate.

I invite members of the Opposi­tion to study the 1971 report thoroughly and with as much assi­duity as they studied the 1970 report. I assure them that steps forward have been taken between 1970 and 1971. I refer to a further action at the State Ministers' conference be­cause it has a bearing on this adjourn­ment motion. Every State has prob­lems in the field of mental health, and every State is gathering its forces to present to the Common­wealth a case for a united front in mental health by the Common­wealth and the States.

I quote from a report which the State Ministers of Health presented to the Commonwealth Minister for Health because it underlines many of the problems mentioned by the honor­able member for Dandenong, and many of those aspects will be covered in the 1971 report of the Mental Health Authority. A report of the State Ministers arising from the conference on 1 st, 2nd and 3rd March was presented to the Commonwealth Minister for Health, Sir Kenneth Anderson, part of which states-

We are left with the over-riding and intractable problem of the matter of financ­ing mental health services to achieve the best possible service to the community.

" We" refers to the States. I emphasize the expression, "the over­riding and intractable problem". The Government recognizes this as much as does the Opposition. In fact, if the Opposition had taken the trouble to word its adjournment motion in a proper way, the Government might well have joined it. The report con­tinues-

The rapidly escalating costs of mental health services impose an enormous drain on State financial resources. We are told

.l\Jental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3939

by the Commonwealth Bureau of Census and Statistics that last year $94· 5 million dollars was expended by the States on mental health institutions. The same source reveals a decrease of 10 per cent in patient populations.

They are critical figures to which the honorable member for Dandenong referred when he advocated a de­crease in the number of institutional beds and an increase in the amount of home-care and community ser­vices that should be, and will be, provided by Governments. This trend is proceeding but the States want it to proceed much more rapidly.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Chris~ie). - Order! The Minister's time is about to expire.

On the motion of Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport), Standing Order No. 8B was suspended to enable the Minister of Health to con­tinue his speech for fifteen minutes.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health).-I thank the House for its indulgence. The report continues-

The States cannot undertake the full­scale attack on mental illness that is needed to maintain and accelerate the decrease in patient population and they cannot provide expanding community ser­vices and rehabilitation facilities which must be part of the programme while the Commonwealth restricts its financialassis­tance to a level of past years; and also maintains a restricted capital subsidy that excludes the buildings so subsidized from benefits that would otherwise be made available.

While any mental health thinking remains tied to a concept of institutions devoted exclusively to mental health it will remain tied to an outmoded concept of mental health services. It is necessary to break this nexus and so free not only the mental health services from an intolerable financial burden but the patient from a system stig­matized by its history.

That is the proposition put by the States to the Commonwealth, and the Government adheres to this proposi­tion, which will be clearly stated in the Mental Health Authority's report for the year ended 31st December, 1971. It is a proposition that I commend to the Opposition.

In line with that report to the Federal Minister were three resolu­tions passed at the State Ministers' conference. Because the Opposition has founded its adjournment motion on a report covering the period to 31st December, 1970, I take leave to inform the House of the three reso­lutions to illustrate that the Victorian Government and the other State Governments are alive to the needs stated in the report on mental health, and are proceeding to take the neces­sary steps to promote the over-all good of the mental health services in Australia, and especially in Victoria. They are-

Resolution 1: Hospital benefits for short­term patients in mental hospitals.

Resolution 2: The non-payment of nursing home benefits for intellectually handi­capped within a mental health institu­tion.

Resolution 3: A comprehensive pro­gramme to allow each State to develop services in conjunction with the Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth Minister accepted this report, is studying it with his advisers, and will report back to the State Ministers' conference.

Mr. DOuBE.-Was this the first he had heard of it? Was he surprised to get it?

Mr. ROSSITER.-This is the first time that a comprehensive report on mental health has been presented since 1967.

Mr. WILKEs.-Are they the only recommendations that were made?

Mr. ROSSITER.-They were the only resolutions on mental health carried at the conference. There is no doubt that the Commonwealth will be seised of the importance of the mental health work being carried out in the State, that this report will be studied, and that the States will hear from the Commonwealth in due course.

That is the proposition that the Government places before the House in answer to an attack which is based on the report for the year ended 31 st

3940 Mental Health [ASSEMBL Y.J Authority.

December, 1970. Since then action has been taken within the growing resources allocated to the Mental Health Authority by the State Trea­sury. The Government is properly seised of the need to remedy the ills referred to in the report for action to be taken in the mental health field in accordance with the priorities laid down and the funds available to it.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-It might have been better for the Government if the Minister of Health had not addressed the House, because fundamentally his speech was just another exercise in semantics and figures. It is a reflec­tion on the Government that when this motion was moved consider­able time was taken up with points of order. As soon as you, Mr. Speaker, ruled that the motion was in order, the honorable members for Geelong, Bentleigh and Scoresby absented themselves from the House. At no stage during the debate have there been more than eight to ten members of the Government party even concerned to hear the arguments that have been put. It should be of interest to the people of Victoria that the three honorable members, who took up the time of the House in asserting that this issue should not be debated because it was out of order, absented themselves immedi­ately after your ruling. They will not seek the call and will not participate at any stage in the debate.

The Minister admitted that in December he received a report which was tabled only last week, and stated that it was not proper to ask the reason for the delay. What is the Minister's defence? It is to quote some figures which go back to 1963-64, and as there has been an over-all increase in those figures the honorable gentleman says the case of the Opposition collapses because it is based on a report which is approximately twelve months old. That is only part· of the Opposition's case. The critical point which the House and the Government must consider is not whether the report is

twelve months old but whether the issues raised in the report have been the subject of Government attention and action.

On the subject of hospitals, the report of the Mental Health Autho­rity states-

The authority is gravely concerned at its inability to remove the areas of sub-stand­ard accommodation still existing within the mental hospitals under its care, as men­tioned in the 1969 report. Not only ·are the physical facilities sub-standard but the level of maintenance and staffing are 'also sub-standard and these levels are falling relatively further behind as compared with other hospital services in the St·ate.

That is a true allegation which was first made in December, 1970, but does the Minister of Health say that that description does not pertain today? Is the Minister of Health or any other member of the Govern­ment prepared to put his reputation on the line and say that that descrip­tion is no longer appropriate?

On the subject of alcohol the report states-The authority, in its 1969 report, drew attention to the comprehensive facilities which are required to enable it to ade­quately carry out its responsibilities in this regard.

Does the Minister of Health now inform the House that the facilities available to deal with the problems of alcoholism are adequate? Of course not!

Mr. ROSSITER.-They have im­proved.

Mr. HOLDING.-The honorable gentleman was extremely vague about the extent and quality of the improvements. He has asked mem­bers to accept his general statement that things are getting better. I shall deal with that later because ultimately it becomes a question of the honor­able gentleman's credibility. On the subject of capital works, the report of the Mental Health Autho­rity states-

The authority believes it is the only gov­ernmental department or instrumentality with continuing commitments which has

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3941

suffered a steady and substantial monetary reduction in its works and services programme over the last five years.

Nothing could be clearer than that, yet the Minister has produced a table of figures which, if correct, tends to sug­gest that that statement is not accu­rate. Does the Minister deny the accu­racy of the report or suggest that it is not a truthful and accurate summary of what has occurred? Of course, he does not. On staffing, the report states-

The authority expresses its gratitude to its hard-working 'and conscientious staff, especially to its nursing staff, which has assumed increas'ing burdensome nursing tasks without significant increases in num­bers.

Does the Minister suggest that that is not an accurate description of the situation that now exists?

Mr. ROSSITER.-We are dealing with that statement now.

Mr. HOLDING.-I am dealing with the report, but I shall be happy to refer the Minister to a document compiled by the union which repre­sents the members of this dedicated nursing staff. The union has pro­duced a complementary report to the Stoller report and I suggest that the Minister would be guilty of mislead­ing the House if he suggested that the problems of staffing at mental institutions are not as bad today as they were when the authority's re­port was produced. I will be delighted to make the union document avail­able to the Minister. I accept the veracity of the gentleman who has produced the document. I suggest that the House will find the docu­ment far more telling than the figures glibly quoted by the Minister today. The authority's report continues-

The hospitals are, in fact, staffed at an inadequate level and, in spite of this,the standards of 'care compare not unfavourably with general and geriatric hospitals in Vic­toria, although the patients being treated in them would most assuredly comprise a high proportion of the most difficult nursing problems in the community. Services are, 'in fact, only being maintained by the constant and excessive use of overtime.

Does the Minister suggest that that is not the current situation, or does he deny that at this very hour the level of services is being maintained "by the constant and excessive use of overtime"? The Minister cannot say that it is not an accurate state­ment. In the summary, this state­ment appears-

In the face of the rapidly growing popul'a­tion of Victoria and improvements in medical treatment which have increased both the longevity of the general community and the population in the mental hospItals, the maintenance of the number of institutional beds at the current level over many years has been 'a substantial achievement.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-The Leader of the Opposition read that softly.

Mr. HOLDING.-I should be happy to repeat it for the Premier, because, to solve these problems, a full and frank debate is necessary-an ex­ercise in semantics will not achieve any progress at all. Accordingly, I am delighted to quote the document fully, and if the Premier can obtain some credit from the situation I wish him luck. The report continues-

It must, however, be categorically stated that continuance of the restrictions involved in capital works and building maintenance programmes will produce serious deteriora­tion in the standard of mental health services in the State of Victoria.

The case so ably submitted for the Opposition by the honorable member for Dandenong cannot be answered by the Minister of Health saying that he has sat on the report since December and that the conclusions which the House is being asked to consider are dated, because the Minister knows that the situation is still substantially the same.

The Minister has suggested that conditions have improved. The honor­able gentleman was fairly glib and did not go into detail. The Minister asks the House to accept that he is well-intentioned. Although the Min­ister might be incompetent, I accept that the honorable gentleman is welI­intentioned. I would be prone to ac­cept the Minister's good intentions if, on a number of occasions, he had not made similar statements to the House.

3942 Mental Health [ASSEMBLY.] Authority.

On 10th March, 1971, as reported at page 3949 of Hansard, in answer to a question asked by a member of the Government party concerning the over-all reduction in estimates and the general position of hospital finances, the Minister said-

These cuts will be made over the whole field and will not be applied to any hospital which has been singled out; it is expected that the money available will be spread equally, and that there will be no over-all cutback on major developmental projects in the hospital field.

During a debate on this subject on 29th September, 1971, which is re­corded at page 801 of Hansard-

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-This would be a debate in the same session?

Mr. HOLDING.-Yes, and therefore I would be out of order in quoting from it.

The SPEAKER.-The reading of questions and answers has been allowed, but not statements in debate.

Mr. HOLDING.-I will not quote it because if I did I would be out of order. If one looks at the record of the Minister on the question of his credibility and whether the House should accept his assurance, one learns that as late as September, 1971, the Minister was happy to assure the House that there would be no short­age of funds so long as he was the Minister; all would be well. I shall now deal with that proposition. The report of the Mental Health Authority, admittedly dated, discloses a continuing situation in mental insti­tutions. This issue has been raised on about three occasions since I have been a member of the House and on each occasion the Minister has ad­vanced the same defence and pro­duced a long list of figures in an en­deavour to point out that things are really getting better because the Government is spending more money on mental health facilities. No attempt has been made to relate the level of services to the level of need, or to break down the figures to show

that some of the increased expenditure has simply met increased wages and salaries of staff in the institutions.

I referred earlier to an additional statement which I sought from the Hospital Employees Federation of Australia to show whether there had been an over-all improvement in the situation. Time does not permit me to go into every aspect of the supplementary report.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie ).-The Leader of the Oppo­sition has two more minutes.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­By leave--

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Leave is re­fused.

The SPEAKER.-The Chair will in­dicate when the time has expired.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-The document from the union refers to the size of the problem and indicates that at Mont Park normal staff vacancies can be as high as 90 at times. The docu­ment states-

One female ward, F.6, contains 58 psychotic patients with only one charge nurse on II! hours and a ward assistant working 5 days for 8 hours daily. This results in the ward being manned by only one nurs·e after 4 p.m. and in the week­ends, leaving it totally unsupervised during meal breaks, and causing an element of risk to the lone staff member, who has on more than one occasion been attacked by patients which lead to subs,equent workers compensation and a further loss of func­tioning staff member.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member's time has expired.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­By leave, I move-

That Standing Order No. 8a be suspended-

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-For how long?

Mr. WIL TON.-Fifteen minutes beyond the fifteen minutes granted.

The SPEAKER.-Is leave granted? Sir HENRY BOLTE.-No.

M ental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3943

The SPEAKER.-Order! The ques­tion is, "That the House do now adjourn." The honorable member for Albert Park.

Sir· HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-Mr. Speaker--

The SPEAKER.-Order! I put the question and the honorable member for Albert Park rose. Does the Premier want the call? It should go to the Government side if the Premier wants it.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-Mr. Speaker, the House is discussing a motion that the House do now adjourn and the motion refers to " the failure of the Government to take steps to provide adequate finance for the proper func­tioning of the Mental Health Author­ity." I should have thought that the motion should be directed to the Treasurer rather than to the Minister of Health because it is purely a matter of finance and as such it is the pre­rogative of the Treasurer. Whether an authority is functioning properly is determined by the funds which the Treasurer allocates.

I am reminded that when the Gov­ernment came into office in 1955, the nation was shocked by a report pro­duced by Dr. Stoller in that year.

Mr. DOuBE.-In 1954.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-That makes it even more relevant. The report was dealt with at the Premiers Con­ference in 1955. I remind honorable members that a Labor Party Govern­ment was then in office in this State and in practically every other State of the Commonwealth. The report by Dr. Stoller shocked the nation and really hit the consciences of the public and the political leaders of this country. Having studied the report, the Federal Government informed the Premiers Conference in 1955 that the works programmes for the various States required the expenditure of about $60 million. The Common­wealth stated that it would agree, if the States consented, to accept the responsibility for providing $1 for

every $2 provided by the States, so that the Stoller report of 1954 could be implemented. Accordingly, the Commonwealth Government allo­cated $20 million for this purpose. Presumably, all States agreed, but at the end of the five-year period, only Victoria had used the whole of its allocation.

For the record, I point out that in the year before my Gov­ernment came into office, the Cain Government had spent $1·4 million on capital works in the mental health sphere. In my Government's first year of office, I accepted the Com­monwealth offer, and the Victorian Government spent $3 million in the first year, $3·5 million in the second year, $3·4 million in the third year, $3 . 5 million in the fourth year and $3· 1 million in the fifth year. Victoria used the whole of its share of the Federal allocation of $20 million. Up to that time, most of the other States, the majority of which had Labor Party Governments, had not drawn their full allocations. This applied particularly to New South Wales. In the financial year 1960-61, Victoria had only $168,000 left in that fund.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-On a point of order, I do not want to interrupt the hon­orable gentleman but the adj0!lrn­ment motion is directed substantIally to a lack of Government adminis­tration and the subject of the debate is a matter of urgency. While it may be historically interesting, I do not see how what occurred back in the year dot is relevant to the debate. I submit that the Premier would be much more in order if he updated his remarks.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! I do not uphold the point of order for the very good reason that the intentions of the Government are brought into ques­tion by .the motion moyed. by. ~he Opposition and the PremIer IS gIvmg background information, as he is en­titled to, to indicate the general intention of the Government.

3944 M ental Health [ASSEMBL Y.] Authority.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier .and Tre~surer) -I am speaking to the motIOn for the adjournment of the House which relates to the proper functio~ing of the Mental Health ~uthor1ty-not the better function­lr:tg, .not Utopia, but .the proper func­tIOnIng. If it were not .for the efforts of the Government over the past seventeen years this would have been a proper motion to move. It would have been appropriate in 1955-be­c.ause in that year mental institu­tIons were taboo and no visitors were allowed.

Mr. DouBE.-That is not ,true.

~ir HENRY BOL TE.-Spectacular strIdes. have taken place over the in­tervenmg. year~. I ~as saying that in 1960-61 m VIctorIa this fund had practically been exhausted but be­cause of the efforts of the Victorian Governmen t since then the fund be­came a continuing one. In seventeen Budget~ ~he Government has spent $70 mIllIon on capital works for mental health. Had the expendi­ture been maintained at the rate which obtained prior to when my Government came into office the amount spent would have been about $17 million or perhaps $20 million.

I thank Dr. Stoller for the report he presented in 1955. What he said then and what appears in his current report is right and proper. Every­thing has to be looked at in its right perspective and if members of the Opposition suggest that the Gov­ernment's average rate of capital expendi ture-which is curren tly in ~he. vicinity of $4 million annually­IS madequate, I should like them to suggest from where the Government should obtain extra funds to spend on ·mental health. It is ·of no use Opposition members saying that the Government has to spend another $2 million a year on buildings for the Mental Health Authority without suggesting from where that extra finance is to come. The Government has committed itself to scores of

projects. The planned project for Colac will be spectacular and will be welcomed.

Mr. DouBE.-When will it be finished?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-The tenders will be let very shortly. The site works are about to be started. Mem­bers of the Opposition laugh, giggle and snivel about these things.

Mr. HOLDING.-We laugh and giggle at you.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-They do not. The Government has the record on the board in this field and I am sure 'Dr. Stoller would be the first to recognize it. Of course, Dr. Stoller has not got everything he wants, and he never will, and neither will Dr. Lindell, of the Hospitals and Charities Com·mission, Mr. Tisdall, of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission and other departmental heads. They will not get everything they want because there is not enough to go around. T will not concede that the Mental Health Authority is not functioning in a proper way. This motion is really directed at Dr. Stoller and the Mental Health Authority-it is alleged that the authority is not functioning properly.

.Mr. HOLDING.-StOP talking a lot of rubbish.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-The Leader cif the Opposition should read the motion. If the Mental Health Authority is not functioning pro­perly because of lack of funds, it means it is inefficient, and I do not concede that it is inefficient. Some of these figures have been quoted before but in this financial year $38·8 million is being spent in this field. The Minister of Health was a little too fair in that he was comparing figures for this year with

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3945

those of some nine years ago when the Government spent $20 million. In that nine years .the Government has doubled its allocation for .mental health. The Government has taken a very real interest in mental health. I have seen reports written by in­dependent people who have com­pared the Victorian system with any to be found elsewhere in the world. I ask members of the Opposition to present evidence to show that any other State or any other country is doing a better job in this field than Victoria.

Mr. DouBE.-Give one set of figures to prove that.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-I invite the honorable member for Albert Park, who is anxious to get to his feet, to give the House the' advantage of his six weeks as Minister of Health. He had a spectacular record. He was in office when the then Government spent this miserable amount of $1.'4 mil­lion on capital works for mental health. That is the honorable mem­ber's great contribution to this prob­lem in Victoria. Very shortly he w.ill present to the House his views on how he would cure all of these things.

Mr. DouBE.-What about the figures?

Sir HENRY BOLTE. - What figures?

Mr. DouBE.-The Premier said Vic­toria had a better record than any other country.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Figures do not mean a lot.

Mr. DOUBE.-It would be better for the Premier to quote figures than to make a statement ,off the top of his head.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Do figures mean as ·much as people?

Mr. HOLDING.-I agree with that statement. The Premier should have told that to the Minister of Health.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-People are more important than figures; policies are more important than figures. My Government, in the period in which it has been in office, has given 'men­tal health a high priority and it has been transformed. I extend con­gratulations to Dr. :Dax for the tre­mendous job he did. He could not have done that job without adequate funds being provided. ~ depart­mental head, a Minister of the Crown or a Premier and Treasurer can do a really good job only if there is plenty of money available to do everything that is desired.

Mr. Speaker, I suggest that mem­bers of the Opposition should look objectively at this problem, as the Government has. It has done a rea­sonably good job over a long period of time,when the amount of money that has been available to this State is taken into account.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-The Opposition has 'moved an important motion to highlight a situation which every person in this community is either interested :in or affected by. Members of the Opposition are some­what disappointed that the remarks of the Minister of Health added little to the debate and that the Premier searched back into his memory and came up with a long set of facts which he thinks is a balm for those people in this society who are un­fortunately affected by mental ill­ness. The Premier talked about the Stoller report and about the situation which existed before his Government came into office. I know very well that in 1950, when the Mental Health Authority was set up, there was a backlog caused by at least 100 years of neglect in this State. The Premier knows very well that to :make com­parisons between then and now is ridiculous. At page 92 of his report, Dr. Stoller made this important statement--

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-The honor­able member is going back into the past now.

Mr. DOUBE.-You cannot talk.

3946 M ental Health [ASSEMBL Y.] Authority.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member for Albert Park should ad­dress the chair and not members of the House directly because that pro­vokes interjections.

Mr. DOUBE.-I regret that, Mr. Speaker. The Pre,mier did not put a correct view to the House when he said that his Government, when it came into office, had to pull the men­tal services out of a terrific mess. The Stoller report proves to the contrary. I wish to refer to the Stoller report which was presented in 1954 because at page 92 this pas­sage occurs-

Victoria was, in our view, the best­equipped State in the Commonwealth, both in regard to mental health facilities and to planning, but even so, fell far -short of desir­able standards.

One of the points the Pre.mier at­tempted to make was that the Stol­ler report indicated that the facilities for ,the treatment of the mentally ill in Victoria were appalling whereas in fact the report states--

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-You selected that.

Mr. DOUBE.-The Premier selected Victoria.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-Hansard will show the true position

The SPEAKER.-Order! The hon­orable member for Albert Park is de­bating a motion and should address the Chair for the benefi t of the House. If he uses the second person across the table he is bound to pro­voke interjections.

Mr. DOUBE.-The first point the Pre.mier 'made was that the Stoller report showed that when his Govern­ment came into office Victoria's men­tal health services were the worst in Australia. Far from being the worst, they were the best. It is true that with the assistance from the Commonwealth Government and as a result of the work done by members of the Mental Health Authority-the authority was set up in the early 1950s-progress has been made. ~o

one denies that. Devoted, experi­enced and excellent staff were em­ployed by ,the Mental Health Author­ity and .there was a time when the mental health services of this State were excellent, but no one can say that is the case now. ~o one can say that Victoria, as the Premier at­tempted to 'say, leads the world or leads the rest of Australia.

The honorable gentleman did not give one fact in support of his assertion, but it 'can be stated that progress is not being made at any­thing lik~ the rate that the general public expects. The statements by the Premier and the Minister of Health that in 1964 a certain sum of money was spent, and that last year a much larger amount was spent, do not indicate ,the services that the community is receiving, because inflation and cost-of-living adjustments must be considered. The fact that three years ago the Gov­ernment was spending $20 million and now is spending $25 million is not necessarily a sign of progress. I am not concerned with the exact­ness of the figures I have quoted, but it is the type of argument put to the people of Victoria to hood­wink them into thinking that some­thing effective is being done. One of the 'charges that the Opposition lays against the Government is that it will not tell the truth about mental health.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I wish to have with­drawn the remark that the Govern­ment will not tell the truth.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! I do not consider that remark unparliamentary. It is a matter of opinion. Had the honor­able member said the Government deliberately did not tell the truth, that would be another matter. There is a distinction. There is no point of order.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-One of the faults of the Government is that it is less than frank with the

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3947

people about the State's mental health services. The Government glosses over the situation and pro­duces a set of figures by which it attempts to prove that the position should get better. The Government is window dressing. If the Mental Health Authority is falling into the situation described by the Chairman of the authority in his last report, this House should have been made aware of it. Honorable members should receive something a little better than pious platitudes to the effect that the Government is hope­ful of doing something next year, or that plans are on the drawing board for the Colac centre. People should be made aware of the deficiencies in the facilities of the authority because the community will become interested in the prob­lem only when it is told the truth. If the Premier and the Minister of Health continue to act as they have been acting people will be led to think that everything is all right, but of course that is far from the position.

Sir HENRY B'OLTE.-The position is better than it was.

Mr. DOUBE.-Of course it is, but surely that is not to be the standard of the Government. 'If the Premier had bothered to read the authority's report he would have seen that the authority is far from satisfied about the 500 very severely men tally re­tarded children-this is 'Only the acute list-that it cannot accommo­date. What is the Premier's answer to that? Approximately 1,000 more mentally retarded children, whose cases are not so urgent, also cannot be accommodated. At the rate that the building programme for mentally retarded children is progressing at present, there will be a waiting list until the year 2020. Does the Pre­mier consider that that is progress? The Opposition has made this criti­cism in the House before, but the Government has taken no notice of it. If consideration is given to the number of mentally retarded children

now on the waiting list for institu­tional care and the number that can be expected to be born each year, together with the rate at which the Government is building accommoda­tion, the waiting list will extend until the year 2020. This matter is con­cerning the Opposition.

The Opposition is also concerned about the situation facing the authority regarding drug addicts and alcoholics. If the Premier would ex­amine the report of the Mental Health Authority he would see that the authority, which is charged with a responsibility in this field, has no possibility--

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-I have read something in that field for the first time ever.

Mr. DOUBE.-That is the whole point. The Premier is satisfied with the most meagre steps.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-I am not satis­fied.

Mr. DOUBE.-Then the Opposi­tion would like to hear something 'Of the dynamics the Government proposes to introduce into this area. I have said that the Government glosses over these matters and en­gages in window dressing, pretend­ing that everything is going well.

In the House the Government en­deavours to divorce itself entirely from its Liberal colleagues in Can­berra. One would think that in the matter of Liberal philosophy this Government and the Federal Gov­ernment were two different parties. For almost twenty years the depth of this problem has been known, and even before that, from the con­tents of the Jones report, the Ken­nedy report, and the Stoller report. The report before the House today indicates that the Government is not making essential progress in the field of mental health.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-Rubbish!

Mr. DOUBE.-If the Premier had read the report he would have seen that no progress is being made.

3948 M ental Health [ASSEMBLY.J Authority.

What is the use of the Premier and his Ministers saying that they are attempting to have talks with the FederallMinister of Health as though they 'and the Federal 'Minister were members of different political or­ganizations, or that the Federal Minister had no feeling for his re­sponsibility towards the people of this State. The Opposition has heard this sort of argument for twenty years. The Government has pretended that it is interested in the problem but that the Federal Government has been depriving it of necessary funds.

No member on the Opposition side of the House is satisfied with what is being done by the Government in the field of mental health. At the time of the establishment of the St. Nicholas Hospital, which is the old Children's Hospital, the then Minis­ter of Health claimed that when the building had been renovated 300 beds would be provided. That florid, optimistic Ministerial statement was made in 1964. The latest report of the Mental Health Authority indi­cates that, instead of 300 'children being accommodated in St. Nicholas Hospital, the ·figure is between 170 and 180; yet it was believed in 1964 when the Minister made his statement that there would be some sort of inroad made into the waiting list of mentally retarded children. All that the Minister has been able to claim credit for in connection with this hospital is that he has given in­structions for an old part of the build­ing to be demolished, but the honor­able gentleman has given no indica­tion of what will be put in its place.

The motion moved by the honor­able member for Dandenong must be supported by those honorable members who have any real feeling for the needs of the people con­cerned. While the Government can wait, the problem of these people cannot. All honorable members will have realized the size of the problem which accrues to the person who is denied adequate mental health care, whether in the field of mental hos­pitals or mental retardation.

Mr. Doube.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-The honorable member has one more minute.

Mr. DOUBE.-l}t is intolerable to place a further burden on these people who, with their families, are -in a desperate position unless the State Government can persuade the Commonwealth Government to pro­vide more money for this purpose than it has in the past. It should also take the people of Victoria into its confidence and inform them of the real areas of neglect and what will be done in this field.

Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-The Country Party has a respectable record in the field of mental health in this State, having been respon­sible for lifting health services out of the rut in 1952 when Dr. E. Cun­ningham Dax was appointed Chair­man of the :Mental Health Authority.

My party is particularly con­cerned with the slow development of mental health facilities in country areas. Whilst it is not expected that extensive works will be carried out in the country, it is expected that there 'will be a ·coverage of mental health facilities throughout the State for those people who are so afflicted. At present families are broken up because a mentally re­tarded member may be required to go to the metropolitan area, to the Pleasant Creek institution at Stawell, or to some other dis­trict which is distant from home; at the least, considerable problems are caused to the families con­cerned.

Tohe Country Party is also con­cerned that the 'waiting list for men­tally retarded people is not being reduced. The honorable member for Albert Park stated that at the present rate of progress there would be a waiting list until the year 2020. If this is so, further finance should be made available by the Govern­ment to enable the waiting list to be reduced as rapidly as possible. Hon­orable members must Qe concerned

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3949

by the comments made by Dr. Stol­ler in his report, particularly at page 8, where he has referred to the fact that during 1970 not 'One new project involving additional beds or services was commenced. It may well be that, as the Premier and the Minister of Health have argued, since the report was made certain projects were started and are in course of construction. However, the fact that no new project w'as started during the year of the report is worthy of note and Dr. Stoller's concern is understandable.

I t is agreed that the staffing of mental institutions is carried out by dedicated people and I can express only praise for those engaged in this worth-while work. It is to be hoped that they will continue to do so even though their conditions, compared with those prevailing in other 'fields, seem rto be sub-stan­dard. It is essential that mental health institutions should be as fully staffed as possible and that the un­fortunate patients should receive all the treatment possible in an en­deavour to assist them in overcom­ing their difficulties. People who suffer from serious mental retarda­tion should be cared for in the best possible manner throughout their lives.

oIn dealing with treatment facili­ties, I refer to the adage that preven­tion is better than cure. If mental illnesses can be prevented the com­munity will be saved a great deal of money, and this should be con­centrated upon. The facilities m'ade available under the Alcoholics and Drug-dependent Persons Act 1968 should be implemented on a large scale at the earliest opportunity be­cause there .is no doubt that drugs and alcoholIsm present a serious problem to the State. Whilst the Pr~I?ier. compared conditions pre­vaIlmg In thIS State with those in other States, this should not be a yardstick. Because Victoria may be far ahead of other States in this field, the Government should not smugly sit

back and refrain from providing ad­ditional services that are obviously needed by mentally ill people.

We agree with Dr. Stoller and the Mental Health Authority that some accommodation is sub-standard and we particularly support his remarks in regard to the early treatment service. Members of the Country Party will be mos't 'interested 'in the next report of the 'Mental Health Authority which, according to what the Premier and Treasurer has said, should reflect some improvement in the position. I presume that Dr. Stoller has been working on the preparation of the report, and I should be pleased to learn from the Minister when copies will be available to honorable mem­bers.

The Minister has pointed out that funds made available to the author­ity over the years have increased from about $15 million 'in the year 1963-64 to an estimated $32 million for the current financial year. The Governmen t 'is making a special effort 'to tackle the problem, although more needs to be done to reduce the waiting lists and 'to catch up with the backlog of capital works. In view of the fact that the Gov­ernment has made some effort to keep pace with the problem, mem­bers of the Country Patty are not prepared to support the motion moved by the honorable member for Dandenong. However, we warn the Minister and the Government that if the 1971 report does not disclose increased assistance but contains comments by Dr. Stoller similar to those in the 1970 report, the Government will be deserving of censure.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-The Stoller report, or the latest report of . the Mental Health Authority, WhICh was presented to Parliament last week, is a damning indictment of 'the Government and the Minister in retrospect because it deals with the mental health situation in the year 1970. The present position is unchanged despite the tripe read

3950 Mental Health [ASSEMBLY.] Authority.

out by the Minister and the figures he quoted to prove that more money was being spent on mental health. Everyone knows that substantial increases in salaries and administra­tive costs occurred in 1970-71. No additional finance has been spent on increasing staff or to eliminate some of the dilapidated hovels in which mental health patients are expected to live.

It is useless for the Minister to attempt to gloss over the situation and to rece'ive some support from the Treasurer who reluctantly makes available a few extra dollars every year to cover increased costs and inflation. The reality of the situa tion is that men tal health to­day is in a worse situation than when Dr. Stoller made his report. That is the argument of the honorable member for Dandenong, and it has certainly not been refuted by the Minister or the Treasurer. I do not want 'to comment on the Country Party's attitude; I do not know which way 'it intends to vote on this issue.

Dr. Stoller was kind to the Gov­ernment in his report which was a factual account of the situation 'in the various mental institutions in 1970. Neither the Minister nor the Government can derive any satis­faction from a discussion of the subject of alcoholism. In 1968, Par­liament passed the Alcoholics ·and Drug-dependent Persons Act. Dur­ing the debate on that measure, it was said that assessment centres would be made available for prob­lem drinkers and persons with drug problems. The Minister now says that the centre in Northco'te-Preston will be available shortly-in 1972. Four years after the Aot was passed there is only one centre for alcoholics and drug-dependent persons, and the Minister claims that the position has improved since Dr. Stoller's report! If it were not for the volun­tary agencies, such as the clinic at St. Vincent's Hospital, nothing would have been done for alcoholics

Mr. Wilkes.

because the Mental Health Author­ity could not do anything. The Government was not prepared to acknowledge the problem. of alcoholism and its associated ramifi­cations such as its effect on road safety. It 'is useless for the Minister to assert that the position is now better than it was 'in 1970. Alcohol­ism is only one aspect.

I now refer to retarded children and their accommodation. If the Minister visits the centre at North­cote-Preston operated by the Help­ing Hand organization he will find that it has 27 applications for admittance but it can admit only three persons each year. Therefore, if a child is now five years of age and requires admittance to the centre it will be fifteen years of age before 'it is admitted. I dare say that other centres in Oakleigh and elsewhere have a similar acute accommoda tion problem. Why did not the Minister admit that every­thing is not well in that regard? The situation is the result of a chain of events in the Mental Health Authority's dealings with retarded children and assistance to alcoholics and drug-dependent persons.

The Leader of the Opposition referred to a report of the Hospital Employees 'Federation of Australia which stated that it had made an appraisal of the Stoller report. The Leader of the Opposition was denied the time to go through the report in detail to support points raised by 'the honorable members for Dandenong and Albert Park. Briefly, the appraisal made by the Hospital Employees Federation of Australia dealt speCifically with par­ticular institutions. In regard to Sunbury, the assessment referred to "poor conditions, sub-standard buildings". That has been the posi­tion there for as long as I can remember, and little or no action has been taken to relieve the situ­ation. On one occasion, the ques­tion of a certain ward at Sunbury was raised in this House. That ward, on which a lot of money had

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3951

been spent and which could have been used in the treatment of men'tal patients, was demolished to make room for something else. I invite any honorable member to ,examine the institution at Sunbury and to assert that the accommoda­tion available for mental patien'ts 'is what they are entitled to in this modern day. Many parts of Sun­bury are a disgrace. It is little wonder that it suffers from staff shortages. The number of hours .overtime worked in mental institu­tions, and 'in particular at Sunbury, has trebled because the 'Minister and the Government cannot obtain adequate staff. If they could they would not be prepared to employ them.

The assessment of Sunbury also states-

Overtime runs to 344 days per month for females and 240 days for males consisting mainly of 31 stops for charge nurses to maintain ward strength after 4 p.m. On deputy charges leave ·there is only 1 qualified staff member to 237 patients, on the female side in the wards.

The 'Minister claims that the situa­tion has improved!

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-The honorable 'member :should give the source from which he is quoting.

Mr. WILKES . ......;I did so earlier, Sir. ]t is a letter received by the Leader of the Opposition from the Hospital Employees Federation of Australia, Victorian No. 2 Branch, and it is dated 1st March, 1972. The Leader of the Opposition re­gards it as a public document, as I now do, and it 'is available for any honorable member to peruse. An interjector asks which side the federation is on. That is not the point; it is on 'the side of the mental patient and the dedicated persons who work in mental hos­pitals and who receive little or no consideration from the Government. At least, it is more concerned about men'tal health than is the Govern­ment.

The assessment also refers to Janefield. It states, inter alia-

Mental deficiency hospital comprising of 493 beds with only 109 staff.

Two wards, B and C,are completely sub­standard, overcrowded ,and understaffed placing an intolerable burden on staff rostered in these areas. The ,authority is without sufficient funds to rectify this situa­tionand conditions and cannot even allow the local administration to employ staff up to the previous establishment of 122 which was reduced last March when the economy cuts were imposed.

The last sentence refers to the cuts imposed by the Treasurer in all public departments.

The only comment about Kew was that it was deficient in qualified staff, especially female staff. The Minister may peruse the assessment of the federa­tion on what should be done in mental hospitals and institu­tions. Suffice for me to say, in refutation of what the Minister said and certainly of what the Treasurer said, that the position in the mental health field has not improved since the latest report of Dr. Stoller was presented to the Government. If it had improved, the 'Minister and the Government would have been able to point to achievements in this field, bu't the only achievement that the Minister 'boasted about was the provision of an assessment centre in Northcote-Preston which is five years overdue. The Minister cannot mention any other achievements.

Mr. ROSSITER.-There are ten others.

Mr. WILKES.-Extra money has been made available to cover in­creases in salaries, wages and ad­ministration costs. The Treasurer could not even specify wha't capital works have been carried out. The mental health position has deter­iorated since the presenta tion of Dr. Stoller's report.

I agree with the Leader of 'the Opposition that there is a disgrace­ful delay in the presentation of some reports to Parliament. The past situation must be debated instead

3952 Mental Health [ASSEMBLY. ] Authority.

of the current position. This state of affairs is a result of the inability of Ministers to obtain reports from their departments. I suggest that the next report of the Mental Health Authority will be a continuing saga of what Dr. Stoller said pre­viously and that deficiencies will still exist. Victoria, with an increas­ing population, has an increasing problem in the use of drugs and in alcoholism among young people. This problem is growing out of all proportion to the population 'in­crease. The people affected have no hope of obtaining treatment under the Government set-up at present.

Only those persons in extremely dangerous conditions can obtain ad­mittance to mental hospitals. I t is not a simple matter to have a per­son admitted to a mental institution. The patient has to be classified rather strictly before he can be accepted for that type of treatment at a mental institution. This is scandalous. If families are ever dis­tressed by anything it is because they are compelled to care for children who should be given institu­tional care. The policies of the Government are ensuring that this institutional care is not available. What does the future hold for these people? Their child is assessed as one who requires special institutional care by the Mental Health Autho­rity; they attend for an appointment and are informed that there is a waiting list that a kangaroo could not jump over. These unfortunate families have to bear the burden of looking after that child until the Government can provide an improved mental health service in Victoria.

The Government stands con­demned. I support the motion moved by the honorable member for Dande­nong, which clearly states the present position in addition to what Dr. Stoller said was the position in 1970.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­In the few minutes remaining to me I wish to do something that should have been done at the beginning of

the debate, to bring up to date the statements made in Dr. Stoller's 1970 report in relation to the current Budget. The figures I propose to quote are already available to the House and have been debated. I remind the House of the three state­ments made in the report, on which substantial action has been taken.

I instance, firstly, capital works, about which it is stated in the report tha t there has been a monetary reduc­tion in the works and services pro­gramme. In the year to which the report refers, the amount actually spent on works and services by the Mental Health Authority was $3·5 million. In the current Budget, Parliament voted the Mental Health Authority a total of $6 million for a little more than a year. The actual works are set out in the explanatory memorandum to the Public Works and Services Bill 1971, but they cover some of the matters raised bymem­bers of the Opposition. The first is' the improvement of conditions at Kew Cottages where a new clinical and administrative block, estimated to cost $500,000, is being erected. At Sunbury, $135,000 will be spent on the continuation of the programme for the heating of wards and for upgrading toilet and bathing facili­ties. The very works needed to over­come substandard conditions are being undertaken this current finan­cial year.

At Ballarat, $237,000 has been provided to cover the final stages of the contract to build a new kitchen and staff mess. That will increase and improve the facilities for the staff. The long-term mental patients at Larundel Mental Hospital are to be moved to other institutions, and a block of four wards, together with a central recreational and office block, is to be remodelled at a cost of $200,000 to form a new training centre for the retarded which is to be known as Kingsbury Training Centre. These are all current projects on an increased and extended programme as compared with last year.

Mental Health [7 MARCH, 1972.] Authority. 3953

Mr. DOUBE.-They are only frac .. tional.

Mr. HAMER.-Expenditure is to be increased from $3·5 million to $6 million, which is a very substan­tial increase in the works and ser­vices programme.

. The second matter which was referred to was alcoholism. This year $279,000 is provided for works, buildings and equipment for the treatment of alcoholics. Two new wards have been completed at Pleasant View, which will cost an estimated $225,000 and work will commence on an admission and clinical block.

The third matter is that of mental retardation. 1 particularly refer to the proposed training centre at Colac which will be, as stated in this report, the key to any improvement in the situation. The Premier has already informed the House that funds have been earmarked and are allocated in the current Budget to enable con­struction work to begin at Colac, and the site works are already under way. Those are the facts based on the cur­rent Budget. They bring up to date the facts stated in the 1970 report ..

Mr. Ross-EDwARDs.-What about the 1971 report?

Mr. HAMER.-I predict that the 1971 report will record these as achievements-that is exactly what they are-and will illustrate how much regard the Government has for mental health.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough) .­The honorable gentleman did not refer to the fact that there are only two occupational therapists at the Plenty Mental Hospital. That is one fact that he glossed over.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Order! The time allowed for the debate has expired.

The House divided on the motion for the adjournment of the House (Sir Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 23 Noes 43

Majority against the motion.. 20

AYES.

Mr. Amos Mr. Bornstein Mr. Clarey Mr. Curnow Mr. Doube Mr. Edmunds Mr. Fell Mr. Floyd Mr. Fordham Mr. Ginifer Mr. Holding Mr. Lewis

(Dundas)

Mr. Lind Mr. Lovegrove Mr. ,Mutton Mr. Shilton Mr. Simmonds Mr. Trezise Mr. Turnbull Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Kirkwood Mr. Lewis

(Portland) ,

NOES.

Mr. Billing Mr. Birrell Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Borthwick Mr. Broad Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mrs. Goble Mr. Guy Mr. Hamer Mr. Hayes Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton Mr. McCabe Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. McLaren Mr. Maclellan Mr. Meagher Mr. Mitchell Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Rossiter

Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) Mr. Smith

( Warrnambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Sir Edgar Tanner Mr. Taylor

(Balwyn) Mr. Taylor

(Gippsland South) Mr. Templeton Mr. Thompson Mr. Trethewey Mr. Trewin Mr. Wheeler Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Burgin Mr. McDonald

(Rodney).

WESTERN PORT (STEEL WORKS RATING) BILL.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans­port) .-1 move-

That all the Private Bill Standing Orders, except those relating to the paymen t of fees, be dispensed with, and that the Western Port (Steel Works Rating) Bill be treated as a public Bill.

1 do not know whether 1 should treat this motion as a formality or take it a little further. In taking it a little further, I realize that there

3954 Western Port (Steel [ASSEMBLY.] Works Rating) BUt.

are some handicaps because I imagine that you, Mr. Speaker will rule that this is a procedural mbtion. In anticipation that that will be your rulin~, an.d indeed the proper course, I wIll sImply give two or three reasons why the Bill should be ~reated as a public Bill.

The first reason is that the Hast­ings Shire Council advised the Min­ister .for Local Government in March, 1970, that it p~oposed to enter linto an ,agreement with John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. on the amount of rates that would be payable by the company. The council proceeded with the maHer, 'and passed resolu­tions sltating that it proposed to enter into 'a rating agreement with John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. The shire then got into difficulties because coun­Cillors declared that they had a pecuniary interest. The council could not proceed bec-ause it lacked a quorum. I think that fact 'alone is enough to justify this Bill being re­~arded as a public Bin, because by Its proceedings the council involved the ratepayers in the decision to enter ,into the 'agreement.

The second reason why the Bill should be treated as a public Bill relates to decentraliz'a1:ion. Decentral­iz,ation of .industry is clearly under­stood to be part of the Govern­ment's policy. It is quite obvious­indeed, notorious-that balanced ~eveloI?m7nt of Westernport, includ­Ing a lImIted part of the area which is to be developed fOor industry, is in accordance w.ith the Government's policy on decentralization.

A third reason ,for my motion is that the Bill is concerned with the biggest single development that has ever been planned for V.ictoria. I am told that by 1983 it will be worth the sum of $1,000 million. The very s.ize of the project and its consequential 'effect on valuations generally in the Shire of Hastings should, in my 'Opinion, justify the House treating this measure as a public Bill. I am sure it is obvious to all honorable members that the

Mr. Wilcox.

development of this mammoth pro­ject affects the interest of a large number of people, and it is therefore reasonable to treat the Bill as a public Bill.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­The Opposition opposes the motion. I shall deal with the points which have been advanced by the Minister of Transport in support of it. The honorable gentleman informed the House that in 1970 the Hastings Shire Council indic·ated that it would be entering into a rating agreement with John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. My understand­ing of the situation-and I obtained this inform,ation from discuss,ions 'with the shire secretary and mem­bers o.f the council-is that the council decided by resolution that it would accept the industry in the municipality as being a dec-entralized industry. No decision was made to enter into a rating ·agreement. On 2nd February, 1971, the same coun­cil, by resolution, adopted a policy that no rating concessions should be granted to John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. In February, 1971, the council made it clear to all concerned-including the Government-that as a m·atter of policy there would be no rating agreement, whether the agreement contained concessions or not.

This proposed legislation which the Government wishes to have treated asa public Bill introduces a com­pletely new precedent affecting the rights of a local g.overnment body to tax its ratepayers under the Local Government Act. This is a new con­cept which affects only one muni­cipality and one ratepayer. When proposing new legislative concepts in the past, Governments have ·al­ways been careful about having a mandate to do so. I remind the House that the Government has no mandate to sponsor legislation em­bodying a new concept of local gov­ernment taxing powers.

If honorable members study .the history of this ParUament and of previous IParliaments, they wHI see tha t on occasions on which the

Western Port (Steel [7 MARCH, 1972.] Works Rating) Bill. 3955

Government of the day introduced a new concept affecting only ·a small section of the community, it took the precauti.on, if 'it considered that the Standing Orders relating t.o pri­vate Bills were so archaic that it was not practical to use them, of informing the House and assuring it that the proposed legislation would be referred to a Select Committee of the Parliament. This was done in the interests of observing the spirit which is embodied in the Standing Orders relating to private Bills, and ,it is an important spirit which .is in the interests of democratic govern­ment.

In general, the municipalities have not had an opportunity of publicly and formally expressing their views t.o Parliament, and the only way in which that can be done is by the Government assuring the House that this measure will be referred to a Select Committee or ensuring that it will pass through Parliament in conformity with the Standing Orders relating to private Bills. In the ab­sence of an assurance from the Min­ister that it is intended to refer this Bill to a Select Committee, the Op­position believes that the Standing Orders should be observed. Private Bill Standing Order No. 118 clearly states the position. It reads-

Every Private Bill after having been read a second time and committed shall be referred to a small Select Committee.

The Opposition believes that local government bodies are entitled for­m·ally to present their views to Par­liament, and that Parliament is en­titled to have the benefit of the deliberations of a Select Go'm·mittee of this House.

In 1948 the Forestry Pulp and Paper Company's Afforestation Con­tracts Bill was introduced into this House. It gave a cer-tain company specified rights which did not apply to the general public. This measure is similar, because in this case a large industrial organization will be treated in a manner which is entirely different from the way ,in which

other industrial organiz·ations are treated in this State. In 1948 in the case to which I have referred Standing Orders were suspended, but it was understood that the pro­posed legislation would be referred to a Select Committee of the House before being enacted by Parliament and that honorable members would have the advantage of being able to read the report of the Select Committee. More importantly, it was understood that 'any section of the community which considered itself aggrieved as a result of the proposed legislation - and to my mind this is ·an important pr.inciple of demo­cratic government - would have an opportunity of formally presenting 'its views to Parliament by way of submissions to the Select Committee.

I have received a sheaf of letters from shire secretaries and town clerks throughout the State in which they strenuously object to this mea­sure because they believe it to be an unwarranted intrusion by the Gov­ernnment.

The SPEAKER (Sir Verno.n Christie).-Order! Up till now the honorable member has been most relevant.

Mr. WILTON.-I am aware of the narrow confines of this debate, Mr. Speaker, and I shall have more to say about that later. As local government in general and the Hast­ings Shire Council in particular­remembering that the council adopted a policy of having no rate conces­sions-will not have an opportunity of presenting their views to Parlia­ment in a formal manner, and as Parliament will also not give the Municipal Association of Victoria the same opportunity-it is the voice of local government in Victoria-nlem­bers of the Opposition oppose the motion. We do not believe this measure should be dealt with as a public Bill.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I feel sorry for the Minister of Transport foor having t.o carry

3956 Western Port (Steel [ASSEMBLY.] Works Rating) Bill.

the bricks ·and do the dirty work for a Minister in another place. The Minister said that there are many reasons why this Bill should be treated as a public Bill. The honor­able gentleman said that one such reason was the fact that John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. had been prepared to enter into an agreement with the Hastings shire.

Mr. WILCox.-The shire wanted to enter into an agreement with Lysaght's.

Mr. WILKES.-In my view, the position was the .opposite to that which the Minister puts. The pro­posal for the agreement did not come to fruition because the pecuniary in­terests of some councillors were in­volved and a quorum could not be formed to decide the ,matter. The Minister advanced this as a reason why ,the Bill should be treated as a public Bill, but I cannot understand that reasoning. Indeed, if anything, the opposite should apply. If no agreement could be reached because of certain statutory requirements of the Local Government Act and as a result of the pecuniary interest of some councillors being inv.olved, that is a reason why the Bill should be debated as a private Bill rather than as a public Bill. Every municipality in the State is up in arms about this matter.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-Not all of them.

Mr. WILKES.-Not only are they up in arms about the Bill; they are adamant that it should be debated as a private Bill.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-The Chair cannot allow this debate to become a discussion about the Bill itself or the public attitude to the Bill. The debate ,must be very narrow and should rela te to the Standing Orders under which the Bill should be debated, those re­lating to public Bills or those relating to private Bills. If honorable mem­bers deal with the Bill itself and take up interjections on that, they will be very much out of order. The

honorable ,member for Broad­meadows kept closely and relevantly to the 'matter under discussion and I suggest to other honorable Imem­bers that they follow his example.

Mr. WILKES.-I will do that, Mr. Speaker, and I will ignore the Minis­ter of Water Supply. It is true that this is a narrow debate. It relates to whether the motion moved by the .Minister of Transport should be ac­cepted or rejected by the Parliament. The Opposition believes that the mo­tion should be rejected and it must advance reasons why. They are the opposite of those put forward by the Minister in favour of the Bill being dealt with as a public Bill. The House went over the argument last week.

There was no intention that this Bill would be considered as anything but a private Bill when the Minister first gave notice of its introduction last year. That should be the salient point of the debate. However, there have been pressures on the Govern­ment since the Bill was first read in this Assembly before Christmas. The Minister has changed his opinion but he has g.iven no reason for doing so.

Mr. WILCOX.-The Speaker changed the position.

Mr. WILKES.-The 'Minister is trying to put the bla'me on you, Mr. Speaker, but the Opposition will not accept that. There is nothing to in­hibit the debate of this Bill as a private Bill. The honorable .member for Broadmeadows referred to similar legislation presented in ,this House. I will discuss the merits of the Bill at the appropriate time, because the subject-matter it contains could establish many precedents. But, in addition, to treat this Bill as a public Bill would establish a pre­cedent for many other similar Bills, and I suggest that the House should reject the motion and a!D' attempt to have this measure treated as a public Bill. As suggested by the

Western Port (Steel [7 MARCH, 1972.] Works Rating) Bill. 3957

honorable member for Broad­meadows, the Bill should be debated as a private ,measure.

Mr. KIRKWOOD ~Preston).-I support the two previous ,speakers from the Opposition benches; there is no reason why this Bill should not be debated as a private Bill. It was suggested that there should be an agreement between Lysaght's and the Shire of Hastings, but several councillors stated that they had a pecuniary interest in the matter and no decision could be made. The Gov­ernment set up a committee of three public servants and that committee refused to give any ·consideration to representations from the Hastings Shire Council and the shire secretary. The point of view of the shire was not heard by that committee. It has been repor.ted many times in the press that Mr. Rickard, the financial adviser to Lysaght's, has said that the original proposal put forward by Lysaght's had been agreed to by the Government com­mittee. If :this Bill is dealt ·with as a public Bill, the shire will receive nothing and all the concessions will be received by the company. I can­not understand this reasoning.

It is quite dear that, originally, the ,company was prepared to nego­tiate with .the shire but, because negotiations did not go the way the company wanted, the Government stepped in and set up a 'committee and then everything went one way. How can the public be asked to ac­cept this if the people themselves receive no concessions? The valuer of the Shire of Hastings will not have the same functions as the valuer of any other municipality in Victoria.

The SPEAKER (Sir Ve'rnon Christie).-The honorable member for Preston is getting on to the sub­ject-matter of the Bill. I know that this is a difficult subject to debate, but the Bill itself and the contents cannot be discussed.

Session 1972.-139

·Mr. KIRKWOOD.-The shire never at any time indicated that it would give a rate concession to Lysaght's.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-I.t gave ·that in­dication in writing.

The SPEAKER.-Interjections are provoking extensive debate on a nar­row question, and the honorable 'me.mber for Preston is getting on to the content of the Bill itself.

Mr. KIRKWOOD.-I accept your guidance, Mr. Speaker. All the con­cessions in this ,matter are going one way. Parliament should assume that concessions will go two ways. That being so, I agree with what was said by ;the two previous Opposition speakers, that this Bill should be treated as 'a private Bill. There is no reason why the House should not accept this principle.

Mr. ,HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 again remind the Govem,ment of the importance of ad­hering to precedents and principles laid down for the good ·conduct of this Parliament. Throughout the his­tory of Parliament there has been a real difference between the con­cept of a private Bill and the con­cept of a public Bill. A private Bill is one of a special kind designed to benefit persons, statutory com­panies, local councils or, as in this case, a private corporation. In order to protect the institution of Parlia­·ment, Parlia,ment itself has laid down that when a Bill is ,considered to be ·a private Bill it should be dealt with in a 'manner quite different from the manner in which a public Bill is dealt with. A public Bill is one which originates within Parliament itself.

The Government ·conceded at an earlier stage that the essential nature of this Bill is that it is a private Bill. Parliament is not being asked just to conduct a simple exercise; it is being asked to alter the prece­dents which it has laid down for the treatment of private Bills and to deal with this Bill as a public Bill. There may well be occasions when

3958 Western Port (Steel [ASSEMBLY.J Works Rating) Bill.

it is overwhelmingly in the public interest and in the ,interest of Par­liament itself that a motion ,such as this motion should be accepted, but, for the ,most part, such motions should be regarded as being the ex­ception rather than the rule. There must be strong and compelling pub­lic reasons why Bills designed to advance the interests of private per­sons, corporations or structures ought to be treated as if they were public Bills.

It is the view of .the Opposition that the Government has been some­what cavalier in this matter. With great respect to the Minister of Transpor.t, he has failed to establish the priority necessary for treating this Bill as a public Bill. I shall sum­marize the arguments advanced by the honorable gentleman. Some councillors of the Shire of ·Hastings regarded themselves as having a per­sonal interest which might affect their judgment in this matter. I know of no reason why the view taken by individual councillors on their re­sponsibilities as councillors should affect the view of this Parliament on the nature of the Bill. The second argument advanced ·was that Parliament should treat this Bill dif­ferently because it ,is in accord with the Government's views of decen­tralization. .I do not want to argue the Government's view on decen­tralization. It may well be that a decision taken by the company in terms of its own interest incident­ally accords with :the view which the Government might also hold. But anyone who knows anything about the history of the development of natural gas and the resources of this State knows that the primary reason why the company wants to establish its works in a particular part of Vi,ctoria is that it is to its own economic advantage.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-The Leader of the Opposi­tion is getting on to the subject­matter of the Bill.

Mr. HOLDING.-I have made the point I wanted to make, Mr. Speaker, that it is not a good enough reason -Simply that the Government re­gards a decision by a private com­pany as serving what the Govern­,ment regards in general terms as its p.olicy on decentralization-for this Bill to be treated as a public Bill. Finally, the argument which the Minister of Transport adduced to support his motion that this Bill be treated as a public Bill was the size of the structure and the amount of money that may ultimately be in­volved. To say the least, that is a novel argument. Presumably, if one operates in a small league, if one is only a small businessman, only a pri­vate Bill is necessary; however, if one operates in the big league and is a large corporate structure, one will be treated differently.

That is a merchant's view of the way in which the precedents of this Parliament ought to be dealt with. A private Bill does not cease to be a private Bill by virtue of the wealth, the importance, or the social influence of the party that has put this sug­gestion to the Parliament.

Mr. WILCox.-What about its effect on the whole district?

Mr. HOLDING.-All the arguments that may flow from this Bill being treated as a public Bill can just as adequately be dealt with in a debate on a private Bill. The Minister of Transport is asking honorable mem­bers to accede to his argument be­cause we are dealing with a large and affluent structure which wields con­siderable economic power. I leave that argument to a Government of carpet-baggers; it is not the conten­tion of the Opposition.

The House divided on the motion (Sir Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 44 Noes 21

Majority for the motion 23

Archaeological and Aboriginal [7 MARCH, 1972.] Relics Preservation Bill. 3959

AyES.

Mr. Billing Mr. Birrell Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Borthwick Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mrs. Goble Mr. Guy Mr. Hamer Mr. Hayes Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton Mr. McCabe Mr. MacDonald

(Glen Iris) Mr. McLaren Mr. Maclellan Mr. Meagher Mr. Mitchell Mr. Moss Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese Mr. Reid

Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Rossiter Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) Mr. Smith

(W arrnambool) Mr. Stephen Mr. Stokes Mr. Suggett Sir Edgar Tanner Mr. Taylor

(Balwyn) Mr. Taylor

(Gippsland South) Mr. Templeton Mr. Thompson Mr. Trethewey Mr. Trewin Mr. Wheeler Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Broad Mr. Burgin.

NOES.

Mr. Bornstein Mr. Clarey Mr. Curnow Mr. Doube Mr. Edmunds Mr. Fell Mr. Floyd Mr. Fordham Mr. Ginifer Mr. Holding Mr. Lewis

(Dundas)

Mr. Lind Mr. Lovegrove Mr. Shilton Mr. Simmonds Mr. Trezise Mr. Turnbull Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers: Mr. Kirkwood Mr. Lewis

(Portland) .

The sitting was suspended at 6.25 p.m. until 8.4 p.m.

ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND ABORIGINAL RELICS PRESERVATION BILL.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time.

As the title suggests, its purpose is to provide for the preservation of anthropological, ethnological, archae­ological and prehistoric relics includ­ing those .of the Aboriginal people. It is an importan't step in the pro­tec'tion of our cultural heritage, and in the enhancement of our know­ledge .of this ancient land.

In initiating this legislation the Government is prompted by considerations sim'ilar to those which

have for years caused the various countries of the Middle East and elsewhere to exercise strict c.ontrol over the disposal of extant remains of ancient times.

These considerations are to ascer­tain and preserve for posterity know­ledge of the traditions of the 'indi­genous peoples, in this instance, the Aboriginal race in particular; to prevent the plundering of relics by individuals who are interested in the collection of relics per se or in the profi t to be made in commercial trading in .objects procured at no .or little cost, and to protect such relics from the depredations of vandals. These relics should be regarded as cultural heritage of the people of the land of their origin.

Relics fall broadly into three categories: -Firstly, moveable ob­jects which include weapons, orna­ments, utensils and burial remains; secondly, immoveable objects such as rock paintings and carved trees ; and thirdly, sites, for example, burial grounds, religious grounds, camping sites, kitchen middens and quarries. It is essential that legislation should establish the ownership of relics, the steps which may be taken to pro'tect and preserve relics and the sites where they are located.

The Bill constitutes an Archae­ological Relics Advisory Committee of seven honorary members under the chairmanship of the Protector of Relics who will be the Director for the time being of the National Museum of Victoria.

Of the other six members to be appOinted by the Governor in Coun­cil, one shall be an archaeologist or anthropologist on the staff of the National Museum of Victoria, one member shall be an Aborigine nom­inated by the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and one member shall be a member of the Ins'titute of Abori­ginal Studies. The three other mem­bers shall be, respectively, the Director of Aboriginal Affairs, the

3960 Archaeological and Aboriginal [ASSEMBLY.] Relics Preservation Bill. '

Director of National Parks, the Chairman 'Of the Forests Commission or their nominees.

Members of the committee will be appointed for periods not exceeding three years and it will be the func­tion of the committee to consider and advise the 'Minister on all matters which he thinks necessary in relation to archaeological relics and the preservation of those relics.

Where the 'Governor in Council is satisfied that it is necessary to reserve land both from the point of view of the preservation of relics and to control the entry of persons upon tha't land, and that satisfactory arrangemen ts will be made for the management thereof, he may, when certain statutory consents have been obtained, proclaim that land to be an archaeological area.

Consent to the proclamation of an area mus't be received from the Minister who is responsible for or vested with the control of the land in question or, where the land is privately owned, from the owner, and if the owner is not the occupier, the occupier of the land.

Once an archaeological area has been established, the Protector of Relics may enter into certain arrangements wilh the Minister and the persons whose consents are re­quired for the land to be proclaimed as an archaeological area. These arrangements may relate to the con­trol of the area, the granting of leases and permits for use of the land, and the erection of buildings and the making of roads or 'trails insofar as they are necessary or desirable to accommodate the public or to facilitate administration.

Relics within an archaeological area will be the property of the Crown and be subject to the pro­tection of the Crown. Any person who wilfully or negligently defaces or damages or without the written authority of the Minister uncovers, exposes, excavates or otherwise

Mr. Hamer.

interferes with a relic in an archae­ological area or carries 'Out any act likely to endanger a relic 'in such an area shall be guilty of an offence.

On being informed by the advisory committee that there is a unique and irreplaceable relic on any land which is in danger of being lost or dam­aged, the Minister may compulsorily acquire that land. The power of acquisition does not extend to land established as an Aboriginal reserve and on which Aborigines are living.

The land shall be acquired in accordance with the Lands Compen­sa'tion Act 1958 but the person whose land has been acquired shall not be entitled to compensation for the value of any archaeological relic on or under the surface of the land so acquired.

The permission of the Minister and payment of a prescribed fee will be required before any person may un­cover or expose any relic or excavate any relic in an archae­ological area. A person who dis­covers a relic on land in his occupa­tion will be required to repofot the discovery to the protector or to an inspector or warden forthwith unless he has reasonable cause to believe tha t the relic is already recorded in the register kept by the protector.

'Mr. FLOYD.----:How will he know?

Mr. HAMER.-Reasonable cause; if he does not know, he does riot have reasonable cause. The Bill vests power in 'the Minister to take such action as is reasonable for the purpose of preservation of relics. The owner of any land will receive compensation from the Crown for all damage or disability which may arise from any action taken to pre­serve any relic in respect of that land.

The Minister is empowered to pur­chase or otherwise acquire a relic on behalf of the Crown, to purchase land upon which 'there are immov­able relics, and to erect screen shelters or other structures for the '

Archaeological and Aboriginal [7 MARCH, 1972.] Relics Preservation Bill. 3961

preservation of relics or to take such other action as may be reasonable for that purpose.

It will be an offence for any per­son without the consent of the pro­tector to knowingly buy or sell or have in his possession or under his control a relic other than a portable relic. However it will not be an offence for a person to possess a relic which was legally in his posses­sion before the commencement of this Bill, but such relic shall not be bought or sold without the consent of the protector.

A portable relic is a relic which is lying unburied on the surface of the ground and can be removed by hand. A person who knowingly picks up or collects such a relic is required by the Bill to safeguard it from loss or damage to ensure that i't can be identified and to forthwith give notice in writing to the pro­tector describing the relic and stat­ing the place where it was found.

A portable relic shall not be bought or sold without the consent in wrIting of the protector. Where a person is convicted of an offence in relation to a relic owned by him the court by which the person is con­victed may order that the relic be forfe'ited to the Crown in addition to imposing any penalty under the Act.

Under 'the Bill it will be the duty of the Protector of Relics to keep a register of all archaeological areas, of all unproclaimed known occur­rences of relics and of all persons known to be holding private collec­tions of artifacts 'Or unique speci­mens which include relics.

He will also be required to seek information in relation to the situa­tion and discovery of relics, to arrange for 'their adequate protection and to make investigations and re­searches with respect thereto. He also has the duty of developing educational programmes and service for the purpose of making avaIlable

to the public facts and information pertaining to relics and archaeolo­gical areas.

Provis'ion is made for the appoin't­ment of honorary inspectors and wardens for the purpose of the ad­ministration and enforcement of the Act. Their duties are specifically set out in clause 12 of the Bill. Where an inspector or warden has reason­able grounds for believing that an offence has been or is about to be committed against the Act with re­spect to a relic, the 'inspector or ·warden may impound and retain that relic pending legal proceedings. Any person who hinders or resists or assaults an inspector or warden 'in the execu'tion of his duty will be guilty of an offence and be subject to a penalty not exceeding $200 or to imprisonment for not more than three months or to both.

Clause 31 sets out specific heads of power to enable the 'Governor 'in Council 'to make regulations for the control and preservation of relics and of archaeological areas. The Bill also contains the usual provi­sions necessary for the working of the advisory committee and for the appointment of staff. As I :said, this Bill represents a great s'tep forward in the preservation of part of our heritage and I have much pleasure in commending it to the House.

On the motion of 'Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East), the debate was adjourned.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I move-

That ,the debate be adjourned until Tues­day, March 14.

I give an assurance that if more time is required by the honorable member handling 'the Bill for the Opposition, arrangements will be made to extend the period of adw

journment.

The motion was agreed to, and the debate was adjourned until Tuesday, March 14.

3962 Firearms (Amendment) [ASSEMBLY.] Bill.

FIREARMS (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­

I move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

It has several important objec­tives. It breaks new ground in the control of firearms in Victoria, and in doing so adopts new principles.

The objectives are fourfold: First­ly, to control the use of all types of firearms in the State through a new system of shooters' licences; second­ly, to give better protection to far­mers and public authorities against vandalism and the irresponsible use of firearms; thirdly, to provide a fund devoted to wildlife management and conservation; and fourthly, to raise 'the standard of behaviour and training among sporting arms users.

At present, the control ,of firearms in Victoria is limited to 'strict super­vision of pistols and high-power centre-fire rifles. In these two 'cases the 'actual weapons are individually registered and permits ,to purchase, to possess and to use them are limited to persons of good character who need them for business or sporting reasons.

Other than a prohibition on the purchase or possession of a pea rifle by a person under eighteen years of age, shot-guns and pea rifles are not at present controlled. Pea rifles have a broad definition under the Act. Broadly, they are .22 calibre rifles and various kinds of weapons of that sort. It Is 'well known that these two firearms-usually with sawn-off barrels-are those most commonly used in 'holdups and armed rob­beriles; they 'are also the weapons most commonly involved in shooting accidents and intentional wound­ings. In the light of the increasing use of ,firearms in crime in most urbanized societies, and certainly in all Australian States, it is time to put an end to a situation in which most firearms are freely available to anyone, and to make every pos­sible effort to ensure that their pos-

session is confined to people who can be trusted to use them respon­sibly.

A second aspect is the increasing destruction of protected native birds and animals, damage to road signs and damage to .farmers' equipment and stock, particularly on the out­skirts of larger towns and cities. This kind of senseless vandalism clearly shows that firearms are in the hands of some people who are utterly unfit to be entrusted with them. In addition to the legislation passed in recent years by the Vic­torian Parliament to deal 'with the menace of trespass to farms, further steps are essential to try to limit the availability of ,firearms -in these worthless hands.

The third problem with which the Bill sets out to deal is the increas­ing pressure on 'wildlife habitat through the growth of population, the draining of swamps and wet­lands, and the cultivation of forest lands. The protection of 'wildlife through the development of game reserves and sanctuaries, and the preservation of native species through research and development programmes, are becoming more and more pressing. All responsible people who are truly interested in shooting as 'a recreation, and such organizations as the Sporting Shoot­ers Association and the Field and Game Association, are dedicated to conservation and to the allocation of funds to sound wildlife manage­ment through the Fisheries and Wildlife Branch.

The Bill proposes for the first time in Victoria to bring the purchase, possession and use of all 'firearms under control. It proposes to do so through an entirely new principle, namely, that the shooter and not the weapon should be licensed. In other words, the objective will be to ensure as far as possible that firearms of 'any kind are restricted to the hands of lfi t persons through a system of shooters' licences, which will give the holder the right to purchase, to possess and to use

Firearms (Amendment) [7 MARCH, 1972.] Bill. 3963

,firearms. The Government has re­jected the alternative of attempting to register every firearm as cum­bersome, costly, and generally in­effective. Controls are to be placed on the shooter-not his gun. For obvious reasons, the system will be administered by the Victoria Police Force, and will be as simple 'as pos­sible. It is intended that the shooter's licence will, with two qualifications, be readily available at local police stations on the basis of an application in respect of three broad categories, namely: Category A---:shot-guns; category B-pea rifles; and category C-any rifle other than a pea rifle.

Under the Bill any person who desires to obtain a shooter's licence to purchase, to possess, or to carry a category A or category B firearm -that is a shot-gun or pea rifle­may do so by application at any police station or such other place as may be approved by the Chief Commissioner of Police.

The applicant will be required to complete the prescribed form veri­fied by statutory declaration that-(a) he is not under the age of eigh-

teen years; (b) he is of good character and has

not been convicted of an indict­able offence or any offence punishable on summary convic­tion by imprisonment for not less than three months;

( c) he has good reason to possess the shot-gun or pea rifle; and

(d) he is not otherwise unfitted to be entrusted with the handling, use 'and care of shot-guns or pea rifles.

If the Chief Commissioner is satis­fied on the information placed before him he is required under paragraph (a) of sub-section (2) of proposed section 22AA, as contained in clause 5, to issue a shooter's licence.

Where a person makes an appli­cation for a category C firearm­that is any rifle other than a pea rifle-the application will be ex­amined in detail by the Chief Com-

mISSIoner or an authorized officer and will be granted if he is satisfied on the matters referred to in sub­paragraphs (i) to (iv) of paragraph (a) of SUb-section (2) of proposed section 22AA.

lit is not intended to alter the present system of control over pIs­tols, which are individually regis­tered, and the permits for which 'are very strictly policed. It is intended, however, to abandon the present registration of centre-'fire rifles, which the Statute Law Revision Committee of this Parliament in re­ports in 1964 and 1966 rejected as totally ineffective in its objective of reducing crime involving firearms. However, it did recommend the licenSing of shooters. The Victorian police agree that the system of keeping track of each centre-fire rifle through individual registration is not worth the effort in terms of crime prevention. It will be replaced by being included in the new system of shooters' licences, although because of their lethal range the issue of licences for centre-fire rifles will, as I have indicated, be given special attention.

The Chief Commissioner is given specific powers to cancel a shooter's licence, if it has been obtained by a false declaration or if the holder suffers a conviction or otherwise shows himself unfit, in the opinion of the Chief Commissioner, to pos­sess or use a firearm. The refusal or cancellation of a shooter's licence gives rise to a right of appeal to a Magistrates Court, whose decision shall be final.

In addition, where an application for a licence has been refused on the grounds that the 'applicant is not of good character and has been con­victed of an indictable offence or 'an offence punishable on summary con­viction by imprisonment for not less than three months, that person will also have a right of appeal to a Magistrates Court. The court may allow the appeal if it considers that the offence did not involve the car­riage o! possession of a firearm and

3964 Firearms (Amendment) [ASSEMBLY.] Bill.

that having regard to the age, char­acter and antecedents of the offender and his behaviour since the conviction, the applicant now ap­pears to be of good repute.

The shooter's licence will cost $2 per annum. At the option of the applicant, it 'will be possible to take out either a one-year or a three­year licence. The Chief Commis­sioner is entitled to retain his ad­ministrative expenses, which the Bill fixes at a maximum of 15 per cent, and the balance is to be paid into a special account in the Treasury entitled the Wildlife Management Fund, to be used exclusively for en­forcement of the Act -and for the purchase and development of wild­life reserves and sanctuaries, and for research into the conservation of wildlife.

In addition to the basic shooter's licence, it is intended to extend the present system of special licences to hunt duck to three particular types of -game. Licence to take duck, quail and deer will be granted by the pur­chase of appropriate annual game stamps which will then be -affixed to the basic shooter's licence. The Fisheries and Wildlife Branch is at present negotiating for the sale of 'these stamps at post offices. They will cost $3, $2, and $10 respectively and these fees will also be paid into the Wildlife Management Fund.

The Bill also makes provision for three special types of shooters' permits. The ,first is the farm permit, which rests on the principle that a firearm is part of the basic equip­ment of a farm, and is often essen­tial to its proper management. The farm permit will be issued without fee and will entitle the farmer, his family or his employees to possess and use firearms anywhere on his property. Of course, if he wishes to shoot elsewhere, or to take duck, quail or deer, he will need the ordi­nary shooter's licence and any ap­propriate stamp.

Mr. Hamer.

The second special shooter's category is the junior permit, whose purpose is to enable young people under eighteen years of age to be instructed in the use of firearms, and to take part in shoots under the supervision of a licensed shooter. These junior permits will cost $1, and the whole proceeds will be paid into a second fund in the Treasury to be distributed at the discretion of the Minister to clubs and associa­tions which undertake the training of young people in the use and handling of firearms, especially in safety procedures.

The third special type of shooter's permit will be issued at the dis­cretion of the Chief Commissioner on a temporary basis to groups of shooters coming to Victoria to take part in competitions or for other similar purposes on receipt of an application from a bona ,fide -club or similar body.

It is difficult to estimate the num­ber of firearms currently held in Vic­toria, and hence the likely number of licences, or the extent of funds likely to flow into wildlife conserva­tion. From various sources it ap­pears that there are at least 450,000 shot-guns and pea rifles in Victoria at present, though their exact distri­bution is not known precisely. I estimate that the Wildlife Manage­ment Fund should receive about $600,000 per annum when the scheme is fully established. This should enable a dramatic expansion in wildlife research and manage­ment, in rural swamp reclamation projects and in the preservation and extension of wildlife habitat. Pro­tected species, such as ibis, and kangaroos will benefit just as much as the game species, and indeed the whole natural environment will be significantly improved.

It would be foolish optimism to think that the new controls -will bring about a sudden end to the use of firearms in crime. They will at least make the acquisition of fire­arms ,more difficult, and in that way

Fireafms (Amendment) [7 MARCH, 1972.] Bill. 3965

shauld have an increasingly restric­tive effect. It is reasanable to. expect m'Dre immediate results in reducing the amaunt af damage and vandal­ism caused by the misuse of ,fire­arms by same irrespansible and destructive lauts.

The Bill canfers an wildlife afficers, in the enfarcement af the pravisians af prapased sectians 22AA to. 22AC af this Bill, the same pawers as may be exercised by a member af the Palice Force under sectian 27af the Firearms Act. That sectian authar­izes a member af the Palice Farce to. demand the praductian af a shaater's licence ar permit fram any pers'Dn he believes to. be carrying a firearm.

The Bill pravides heavy penalties far the passessian ar use af fire­arms with aut a licence, and also. pravides that when a persan is can­victed his ,firearm shall becanfis­cated. The Bill also. prahibits the sale, except with special cansent, 'Of certain dangeraus types af ammuni­Han, such as salid-ball cartridges and incendiary flare cartridges far shat-guns.

In preparing this Bill, the Gavern­ment has fallawed the general prin­ciples af a submissian an this sub­ject by a number af arganizatians and I readily 'icknawledge the great help and suppart given by many of their representatives in discussian and by letter and suggestian. Thase arganizatians are: The Sparting Shaaters Assaciatian af Australia, the Para Park Ca-aperative Game Reserve, the Field Naturalists Club af Victaria, the Graziers Assaciatian of Victaria, the Victarian Dairy Far­mers Assaciatian, the Victarian Field and Game Assaciatian, the Victarian Deer Canservatian Ca-aperative, the English Setter Assaciatian, the Vic­tarian Amateur Pistal Assaciatian, and the Irish Setter Club 'Of Victaria.

I believe this propased legislatian will have wide suppart, and that most people will commend the pur­pases which it has in view. Where it impases same burdens, I believe

they will be accepted as part of an aver-all scheme to. pratect aur heri­tage, imp rave aur safety, and en­hance the interests af sparting and campetitian shaaters alike.

It will be 'Dbviaus that legislatian af this kind will be much mare effective if similar pravisians apply in the ather States af the Camman­wealth, especially the bardering States of New South Wales and Sauth Australia. Same discussians have already taken place alang these lines, but the other two States have nat yet decided toO adapt this kind af appraach. I hape they ,will, and r prapase to. continue discussians to. this end but I believe that meanwhile the Victarian Parliament shauld take the lead, and shauld shaw that can­tral 'Of firearms an the new prin­ciples embadied in this Bill is bath feasible and effective.

Befare this legislatian is braught into. aperatian, it is prapased to. declare an amnesty an illegally held firearms to. give the halders a chance to. surrender them. Three previaus such amnesties have praduced a tatal 'Of 2,660 firearms, including a machine gun.

This is new legislatian and, al­thaugh every effort has been made to c?ver all aspects fully, I shall certamly welcome suggestians de­signed to imprave it. Any amend­ments af that kind cansistent with the bra ad principles af the Bill will be carefully cansidered.

On the motion af Mr. WILKES (Narthcate), the debate was ad­jaurned.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I mave-

That the debate be adjourned until Tues­day, March 21.

I recognize that same extra time may be required as the Bill particu­larly affects cauntry areas. If a langer adjournment is required, I shall be quite happy to. extend the time befare the debate is resumed.

3966 Disposal of Uncollected [ASSEMBLY.] Goods (Amendment) Bill.

Mr. WILKFS (No~thcote).-":"The Opposition accepts the 'assurance given by the Chief Secretary.

The motion was agreed to, and the debate was adjourned until Tues­day, March 21.

DISPOSAL OF UNCOLLECTED GOODS (AMENDMENT) BILL.

The debate (adjourned from February 29) on the motion of Mr. Reid (Attorney-General) ,for the sec­ond reading of this Bill was re­sumed.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine).­The Opposition does not oppose the Bill and I refer the ,House to the Minister's second-reading speech re­corded at page 3806 of Hansard of 29th February, 1972, which points out that the Bill e,manated from an inquiry made by the Statute Law Revision Committee after which it made its report dated 9th ·March, 1971. The portions of that report which are most relevant to the BHl are para­graphs 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 13, 17, 18, 21, 22 and 23. Honorable members who desire to inform their minds on the inquiry conducted by the Statute Law Revision Committee may do so by giving particular attention to those paragraphs of the report which I have just mentioned.

The Bill seeks to give effect to the recom·mendations of the Statute Law Revision Committee following upon a reference by the Minister. A letter, dated 19th September, 1969, ,from the Retra Service Associ­ation (Vic.), one of the trade organizations concerned with the re­pair of consumer durables - 'in the main, electrical equipment-informed the Attorney-General's Department that member.s of the ·association were encountering two pr,oblems-

(a) The fact that, on some occasions, customers leave goods for repair and, be­cause of their age, parts are not obtainable.

The goods are usually handed in over the counter and it is only when they are in­spected by a technician that it is found that they are unrepairable.

The usual practice is then for members to write to the owners of the goods, requesting that they be collected. In many instances, such letters are ignored.

Members complain that work'shop space is cluttered up with such goods and, in some instances, af.ter having kept them for long periods, they are -carted ·to tips. On odd occasions, the owners eventually call to ask about the goods.

The Ret-ra Service Association asked the Attorney-General's -Department: What :is the legal obligation of mem­bers in these cases? The second problem encountered by the associ­ation was stated thus-

(b) The other aspect is when goods have been repaired; not collected in spite of repeated notices that they are ready for collection and when an auctioneer refuses to accept them for sale, ,realizing that they have no resale value.

The situation related by the Retra Service Association was examined by the Statute Law Revision Com­mittee, which also heard evidence from the secretary of the Television Electronic Service Association of Victoria, the Victorian Institute of Dry Cleaning and the Footwear Re­pair Association of Victoria. Evidence was also tendered by the Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Miller, the proprietor of the Milleradio, a radio and television re­pair service, the Horological Guild of Australia and the Sunbeam Appliance Service Company.

After careful examination of the difficulties of the companies which sought the amendment of the Dis­posal of Uncollected Goods Act 1961, the Statute Law Revision Committee made recommendations which will be given effect in the Bill. These recommendations, embraced in clause 2 of the Bill, re­duce fro'm nine months to one month the time for which a service company is obliged to keep uncollected goods. The Bill will also relieve the ser­vice company of the need, in certain circumstances, to auction the goods for the reasons

Disposal of Uncollected [7 MARCH, 1972.] Goods (Amendment) Bill. 3967

stated jin the report of the Statute Law Revision Comittee. It ,also imposes upon the service companies certain obligations for the protection of those people who leave goods for repair with service companies.

I shall not refer to the Bill at length. It is supported by the Op­position and it is hoped that it will have a swift pass,age through Parlia­ment.

Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-The Country Party likewise supports the Bill, which is designed to speed up the opera tion of the provi­sions of the Act that came into effect as a result of the report of the Statute Law Revision Com­mittee in 1960. The disposal .of un­collected goods undoubtedly is ,a real problem to service companies which accept goods fDr repair .only to find that the owner .of the goods no longer requires them, or believes that the bill fDr repairs may be too high, or, as has happened on a number of occasions, simply forgets that the goods were left fDr repair. Occasionally when persons were reminded that the articles were still being held for collection they were quite surprised that their goods were still held by the service com­pany.

The main problem, particularly for members of the Victorian Auto­mobile Chamber of Commerce, has been one of storage. Hon­orable members can imagine a situation where a number of motor vehicles were taken in by a company for repair and, after being repaired, remained uncollected. In these cases, the bailee is out of pocket for the amount of mDney spent .on repairs; in addition, he must store the ve­hicle, which can cause him con­siderable expense. Electrical goods such as toasters become obsolete even in a year or two. This in itself causes problems in regard to the value of goods and in .one case a situation developed where the bailee went through all

the procedures according to the :Act and then ,endeavoured to sell the unoollected goods at lauction. The necessary advertisements, and soon, were made and the person con­cerned with the repair spent much valuable time having the auction or­ganized, .only t.o find that no one arrived at the auction simply be­cause the goods were of insufficient value to attract ,any interest.

The Statute Law RevisiDn Com­mittee readily appreciated that a problem existed and the recommen­dations of that comm'ittee are con­tained in the report of 1971. Mem­bers of the Country Party believe that the solution provided in the Bill will probably be a trial and erfoor procedure, because it is possible that in time further develop­ments will occur in the field and further amending legislation may be required. Alth.ough at this stage my party commends the Bill and is pre­pared to support it with an open mind, it may be necessary to intro­duce further amendments.

Mr. DOUBE.-That is what the Country Party usually does.

Mr. WHITING.-That is a reason­able attitude. My party has always been agreeable to such a procedure and it hopes to continue in that way.

The general s'ituation is that this proposed ,legislation will assist those people who act as hailees for goods left with them for repair and who find that they have been uncDllected and take up valuable space. The proposal to require only one month's notice after the g,o.ods have been re­paired is one that was considered by the Statute Law Revision 'Com­mittee. In its earlier consideration of this aspect, the committee ,con­sidered the period to be somewhat short and there :is ,a possibility that it may have to be extended.

In paragraph 21 of its report, the Statute Law Revision Committee emphasized that in recommending

3968 Disposal of Uncollected [ASSEMBLY.] Goods (Amendment) B~ll.

these exemptions from public auction the committee realized that there could be la danger of unscrupulous repairers taking advantage of the situation. M a bailee seeks to take over a person's property without giving him due notice that lit has been repaired and is available for collection, and that person desires to keep it, the bailee could dispose of the goods to a third party and, perhaps, make a profit on the deal. However, the spirit of the legislation is such that it should be given a fair trial. If it is found to be unworkable in any respect an amendment may be necessary. The Country Party sup­ports the Bill, believing that it will assist those people who Icarry .out various types of repair w.ork through­out the State.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was read a second time and committed.

Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.

Clause 3 was verbally amended, and, as amended, was adopted, as were the remaining -clauses.

The Bill was reported to the House with an amendment, and the amend­ment was adopted.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Hous­ing) .-1 move.

That this Bill be now read :a third time.

Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-In his second-reading speech the Minister said that the Statute Law Revision Committee had pointed .out that, al­though previously the Act had been administered by the Law Department, following the passage of this Bill its administration would be transferred to the Department of Labour and Industry. No doubt there is a good reason why the Minister of Labour and Industry was not in charge of the Bill, but it would have been a good opportunity for him to become familiar with the legislation if he had been available to handle the measure.

The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was read a third time.

SEAMEN'S (AMENDMENT) BILL. The debate (adjourned from

February 29) on the motion of Mr. I. W. Smith (Minister for Social Welfare) for the second reading of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).­Usually, members of the Opposition undertake some research to ascertain why the Government proposes amendments to legislation, but we have been unable to ascertain why the Government decided to repeal certain provisions of the Seamen's Act which have existed since Colonial days. Until Federation, Vic­toda had a navy which was sac­rosanct ; nothing could be done about it, and everyone wanted to join it. During the Crimean war, the Russians caused a scare, and in my electorate of Williamstown there existed a good navy.

Under the Seamen's Act, a member of a foreign navy who deserted in Victoria, challenged authority or struck an officer could be put on a ship and sent on his way. Victoria has grown up since those days, and the Act now has no application to such seamen. They are now dealt with under the Commonwealth Navigation Act of 1912 which super­sedes the Colonial provisons of the Victorian Act.

I had the temerity to: ask the Mini­ster for Social Welfare why it has taken so long to remove these pro­visions from the Victorian statutes. I was informed that a convention was held two or three years ago, when the Commonwealth Govern­ment met other Governments from overseas, and it was decided to deal with these matters in an organized way instead of as in the past. Mem­bers of the Opposition do not object to the removal of these anachronistic provisions, which should have been removed years ago.

The motion was agreed to;

Victorian Arts [7 MARCH, 1972.] Centre Bill. 3969

The Bill was read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages.

VICTORIAN ARTS CENTRE BILL. The debate (adjourned from Feb­

ruary 29) on the motion of Mr. Hamer (Chief Secretary) for the second reading of this Bill was re-' sumed.

Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray).-This seemingly innocuous small measure in fact has a long and glorious hist­ory for those persons interested and involved in cultural activities in Vic­toria. It can be traced back to the persons who were involved in the move to provide a proper and reason­able centre for the arts in Victoria. In particular, in 1942 a committee of investigation established that the existing centre in Melbourne was unsa'tisfactory and that proper areas should be provided for an art gallery and museum.

The Melbourne South Land Act 1946, and the National Art Gallery and Cultural Centre Act 1956, which the Bill seeks to :amend, set out the policies of the people and of the Government of the time on the estab­lishment of a proper centre for an art gallery and for the cultural ac­tivities of the people of Victoria. The 1956 Act established a National Art Gallery and Cultural Centre Trust Fund, and ,a building committee whose responsibility it was to con­trol ,certain lands vested in it, and, more importantly, to raise funds for the erection of a suitable building for a national art gallery and cultural centre. The 1956 debate was most interesting. It rang true of the mem­bers of that time. The honorable member for Benambra Imade a worthy contribution, as he usually does, and one looks forward to his later con­tribution in tones of the philosophies of Aristotle and Socrates that he brought forward in 1956.

The Victorian Ar.ts Centre has now become a reality, and I ,must admit that it is to the credit of the Gov­ernment and the people of Victoria.

Through their ,contributions, the State now has what is called the National Art Gallery and Cultural Centre, which is the f.ore,most cultural centre lin Australia. Since its formation, 3 million people have visited the centre. The collection is valued at more than $50 million and is housed in a building which has cost $14 million. Its antecedent was the first cultural centre established in Victoria and the present centre is still foremost in Australia. It is a tribute to the benefactors who have made this possible, to the people of Victoria, to the hard-working staff, and not least, to the building com­mittee which was established under the 1956 Act.

The proposed amendments to the legislation are three-fold and are es­sentially minor. The first refers 10 the trustees of :the National Gallery of Victoria, who will in future be called 'members of the Council of Trustees of that body. This amendment should have been introduced in 1966 when the amending Bill convening the Council of Trustees of the National Gallery was introduced; it is approximately six years late.

The second provision ,of the Bill ,concerns investments which the building committee responsible for this -centre is allowed to make. This is most important. Over the years the building committee has been re­sponsible for the expenditure and the income of millions of dollars. My concern is that the committee has made no reports to Parliament or to the people of Victoria. T.he National Gallery, the National Museum and :the State 'Library are all required to make annual reports to Parliament and the people of Vic­toria, but the building committee has not been required to do so. Under ,the National Art Gallery and Cultural Centre Act, which this Bill amends, the committee is required to have its accounts audited, but in no sense does it require :the accounts to be submitted to Parliament. I hope the Minister will consider the matter and that in another place consideration

3970 Victorian Arts [ASSEMBLY.] Centre Bill.

will be given to making it 'mandatory for this body to furnish an annual report to Parliament. This should be required of all committees of this type involved in cultural activities in whioh millions of dollars of Govern­ment and public funds are invested. I have discussed the matter with the Auditor-General, and he assures me that each year an audit has been con­ducted, but no report has been made to the public. That is improper.

Regarding the investments referred to in the measure, it is reasonable that the building committee should be allowed to make investments in a wider range than normal, but once again these ,are under the ,control of the Treasury. I have no objection to this and neither has the Opposition.

The third provision of the Bill relates to a change of title. What has been called the National Art Gallery and Cultural Centre since the centre was established is now to be­come the Victorian Arts Centre. Honorable me'mbers may consider it amazing that we have had to wait so long for this change of title. The centre has been used for more than a national art gallery. It has been used for drama, poetry reading, lec­tures and ballet. There is no reason why this ,change of title should not have been made in the past. In view of the future of the centre, it is obviously a wise move. The Op­position does not oppose the measure. The amendment will change the title of the build­ing committee and the trust fund, respectively, to the Vic­torian Arts Centre Building Com­mittee and the Victorian Arts Centre Trust Fund. The Opposition con­siders that this ,committee and this fund should be supported in their efforts over the years to establish cultural activities in the in­terests of the people of Victoria. The ,committee has laboured under great difficulties. One is the func­tioning of the National Gallery and despite the matter being raised in Parliament the National Gallery of

Mr. Fordham.

Victoria is still some three years be­hind in the provision of annual reports to Parliament, which is contrary to its own Act and more importantly is a slight on Parliament. I trust that this matter will be rectified in the near future.

The Opposition does not oppose the measure, but is ,concerned that the millions of dollars of funds in­volved in the project are not subject to public account and that the National Gallery is behind in the provision of annual reports to Parlia,ment.

Mr. BROAD (Swan Hill).-The Country Par.ty approves of this measure, whose main pur.pose is to broaden the title of the National Art Gallery and' Cultural Centre to the simple one of the Victorian Arts Centre. This is in confor-mity with the wider ideas of the public of Vic­toria today on this popular and valu­able centre. The words "art" and " culture'" are capable of a wide interpretation. As the Minister pointed out in his second-reading speech, the people of Victoria are hoping this complex will give them an opportunity of enjoying a wide variety of activities, such as opera, ballet, lectures and drama, as well as a display of works of art. The simple title appears to be more appropriate.

The Bill deals with the wider con­ception the public has today of art and culture. It is appropriate to mention that during the past five years the State Governmen t has granted $1·04 million to country art galleries and museums, thus widen­ing the opportunities of appreciation of art and culture throughout the State. Included in the total is an amount of $250,000 allocated to the electorate of Swan Hill.

I have noticed an increasing inter­est by the children ,of the State in art and culture. I hope that these extended opportunities may add to the interest of life and result in a lessening of crime and vandalism

Victorian Arts [7 MARCH, 1972.] Centre Bill. 3971

and a better community spirit in Victoria. My colleagues and I sup­port the measure.

The ,motion was agreed to.

The Bill was read a second time and com·mitted.

Clause 1 was agreed to.

Clause 2 (Amendment of section 3).

Mr. HAM·ER (Chief Secretary).­I thank honorable members for the support they gave to this small Bill. The idea of an art 'centre south of Princes Bridge has had universal support in Parliament and broad sup­port in the community ever since it was first considered. All Govern­ments have had a hand in the pro­ject by introducing legislation, set­ting aside the land for it, and giving it support. In view of the construc­tion of the north end as a performing arts centre, this measure is even more appropriate. The word " centre" is important, too, because it should become a centre for the whole State. That is :the reason for the title. The centre should be able to send out samples of its collections to ·country art galleries, as was sug­gested by the honorable me,mber for Swan Hill, and when the performing arts are really perfor·ming in the north end it should be a source of touring companies, drama, ballet, and so on, to country theatres as wen. If that happens, as it should, the centre ·will be performing its role as a true arts centre for the State.

The honorable member for Foot­scray raised the matter of accounta­bility of the Council of Trustees to Parliament. The accounts, of course, are subject to public scrutiny through the annual audit, as the honorable member mentioned, but he was pro­posing that the council should also be required to make an annual re­port to Parliament. I shall have that matter considered before the Bill is debated in another place to deter­mine whether that is appropriate. I

imagine it is ,comimonly provided in Bills of this type that annual re­ports be made. The only reason why it may not have been done in this case is that the Council of Trustees is in a sense a temporary group. It has a job to do in arranging the design and construction of 'the Arts Centre but then its function termi­nates. It hands over to the National Gallery trustees or whoever is to run the gallery eventually. I am only speculating, but that may be the reason. As the present function of the trustees will continue for many years, and as these persons will be responsible for spending a large amount of public money, both State moneys and moneys ,contributed by members of the public, it is probably appropriate that Parliament should have a report each year. Parliament should have the opportunity of debating and dis­cussing the progress being made with this important centre. I will have the matter ,considered before the Bill is debated in another place, and I hope some way can be found of satisfying this requirement. I thank honorable ,members for their support of the Bill.

Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray).-I I thank the Chief Secretary for his comments and I ·accept them in the spirit in which they were offered. The honorable gentleman reiterated that in view of :the amount of money involved and the source of the money, both from the Government and the public, it is only right and proper that these moneys should be the subject of public scrutiny and if necessary, the matter shouid be debated in Parliament. I commend the attitude of the Chief Secretary in putting this proposition in the hope that in another place an amend­ment can be implemented which will allow this to eventuate.

The ·clause was agreed to, as were the remaining clauses.

The Bill was reported to the House without amendment, and passed through its remaining stages.

3972 Western Port -(Steel [ASSEMBLY.] Works Rating) Bill.

WESTERN PORT (STEEL WORKS RATING) BILL.

The debate (adjourned fram November 25, 1971) on the motion of Mr. Wilcox (Minister of Trans­part) far the secand reading 'Of this Bill was resumed.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).­Members of the Oppasitian are op­pased ta this Bill because they believe it is an unwarranted intrusian by the Gavernment inta the affairs of lacal government. Since the intraductian 'Of 1'0 cal gavernment in this State, the taxing pawers exercised by demacratically-elected cauncils have been clear.

It may well be that the Govern­ment wishes to advance an argu­ment that in the 'interests of decen­tralizatian and of the State in general it is justified in intraducing the measure. I prapose ta shaw that the 'Gavernment has mounted this prapased legislatian ona false premise. In his secand-reading explana tary speech the Minister of Transport indicated that the Min­ister far Lacal Gavernment at the time was advised that certain mem­bers of the Hastings Shire Cauncil were of the opinion that they had a pecuniary interest in the questian 'Of the council's entering inta a rating agreement with J ahn Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. I da nat knaw whether the Minister saught a legal opinian, merely acted 'On his own initiative, 'Or acted on the advice 'Of his depart­ment, but i't is clear that the ques­tian 'Of pecuniary interest was raised an very daubtful graunds.

In an article which appeared in the Age of 21st June, 1970, a jaurnalist expressed the view that some councillors could have a pecuniary interest, and same caun­cillars wha thaught it wise 'ta have the situatian clarified signed the pecuniary interest baok. As a can­sequence, for a period the cauncil did nat have a quarum. The shire secretary wished ta have the pasi­tian clarified sa he contacted the Lacal Gavernmen't Department and

was advised on the telephane by the secretary that the cauncillars would have a pecuniary interest.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-How many?

Mr. WILTON.-Eight cauncillars were invalved. The cauncil sought a legal apinian thraugh its salicitars and eventually obtained one from the eminent Queen's Caunsel, Mr. W. O. Harris. Prabably hanarable members will be familiar with this gentleman and will know 'Of his high qualificatians in this field. His 'Opinion was that na pecuniary in­terest was invalved. He stated that thase wha were arguing other­wise were doing sa purely an the graund that the councillars awned land within the Shire of Hastings.

I da nat think that there wauld be anecauncillar in Victoria wha would nat be in a similar pasitian. The land in questian was nat that which was invalved in the establish­ment 'Of Lysaght's but merely land within the shire. Naturally, one has ta be a ratepayer befare one is eligible ta be a cauncillar, and one must be the 'Owner of land ta be a ratepayer. I submit that every caunciUar in Victaria wauld be in that position. The mere owning of land within the municipality did nat, in 'Mr. Harris's 'Opinion, canstitutea pecuniary interest.

The cauncil went fUfither by mak­ing representatians ta the Minister far Lacal Governmen't seeking an exemptian far cauncillors sa that they cauld praceed with negatiatians with the campany. The cauncil did nat i~dicate that it was entering inta

°a ratmg agreement. It merely indi­cated that it was prepared ta engage in negatiatians with Jahn Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. The Minister ignared that request and stated that an independent camm'ittee cansisting 'Of the heads of departments wauld be appointed ta investigate whether a rating agreement should be framed be'tween John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. and the municipality cancerned. The members of thecammittee were Mr. E. R. Inglis, Secretary far Lacal

Western Port (Steel [7 MARCH, 1972.] Works Rating) Bill. 3973

Government, 'Mr. P. W. Merrett, Accountant at the Treasury, and Mr. M. T. Howard, M.B.E., Director '?f the Division of State Development In the Premier's Department.

In 1969 negotiation~ were bein~ carried out to ascertaIn whether It was practicable from the point of view of the company and 'Of the Government to establish an inte­grated steelworks in 'this State~ and, if so, where it was to be establIshed. Many heads of 'Government depa~t­ments were involved as well as MIn­isters of the Crown, and Mr. Howard, in his capacity of Director 'Of the Division of State Development, formed an opinion in the ea,rly stages of negotiation on a ratmg agreement.

On page 5 of the report of the committee which was made to the Minister for Local Government and which is dated 22nd December, 1970, the following passage appears:-

The Director of the Division of State -Development, Mr. Howard,advised his col­leagues on the committee th~t, during dis­cussions with representatives of the company prior to the signing of the agree­ment with the Government, reference was made to the possibility of a rating con­cession pursuant to this legislation.

Subsequently, the council was -advised by letter of the division's belief that such an agreement should be considered.

There is a section of the Local Government Ac't which was inserted at the instigation of this Govern­ment in 1963 to allow municipalities outside the metropolitan area to enter into rating agre~me?ts in 't~e interests 'Of decentralIzatIOn. It IS obvious that Mr. Howard, in his capacity as Director of the Division of State Development, and acting with propriety in discharging his responsibilities to the State, for~ed the opinion in 1969 that a ratmg agreement should be entered into between the company and the muni­Cipality and that i't should contain a rating concession. I therefore sub­mit that the committee was not independent, and that one member at least had already formed an

opinion before sitting on the com­mittee. For that reason I do not accept the point advanced by the Minister of Transport that the com­mittee was independent; in fact, the municipality concerned requested the Minister for Local Government to allow it to have a seat on the committee in order that at leas't one member of the committee would have first-hand knowledge of the area. However, that request was denied and the reason advanced for the refusal by the 'Minister for Local Government was 'that it had to be an independent committee. I fail to see how it could be, when one of its members, in a different capacity, had formed an opinion that a rating agreement should be brought into existence and should contain a con­cession.

I turn now 'to consider the effect that enactment of this proposed leg­islation will have on local govern­ment. I have received a large num­ber of letters from municipal coun­cils throughout the State, including those at Geelong, Melbourne, Don­caster and Templestowe, Footscray, Frankston, Richmond, Seymour, Port Melbourne, Shepparton, Haw­thorn, Waverley, 'Maffra, Box Hill, Broadmeadows, Bendigo, Hastings, Eltham, Corio and Maryborough; there are many others. The letters clearly indicate that these councils are completely opposed to this proposed legislation on the ground that it interferes with the democratic rights of local government.

In a let1er to the Minister for Local Government dated 3rd Febru­ary, 1972, 'the Municipal Association of Victoria stated-

Emphasis is placed upon ,the ,agreement between the council and decentralized in­dustry. There has never been any suggestion that in the absence of agreement a council would be forced to accept something to which it did not subscribe.

That is a statement of fact. At no time has it been suggested that, in the event of a municipality not being prepared 'to enter into an agreement

3974 Western Port (Steel [ASSEMBLY.] Works Rating) Bill.

with a decentralized industry, the Governmen t would legislate to force an agreement upon the municipality. Therefore, the Government has no mandate to introduce this Bill.

Mr. DUNsTAN.-The council has a moral obligation in the matter.

Mr. WILTON.-The Minister of Water Supply speaks of the coun­cil's moral obligation. Shortly I shall discuss the Governmen t' s morals in this regard.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-According to the Supreme Court, it is a legal obliga­tion.

Mr. WILTON.-I should like to refer back to 'the period when the Government saw fit to amend the Local Government Act to make it possible for councils to enter into rating agreements with decentralized industries.

Mr. DUNSTAN .-At whose request?

Mr. WILTON.-It was done on the basis of a repor.t which was brought down to the Parliament by the Dis­tribution of Population Committee.

Mr. DUNSTAN .-It was done at the request of the Shire of Hastings.

Mr. WILTON.-The report was brought down in 1961 and it took the Government until 1963 to act on this recommendation. It was most significant that at that time an oil company was seeking to estab­lish a refinery at Crib Point. The Minister of Water Supply, by interjection, has stated that this was done at 'the request of the Shire of Hastings. That is not how the story was presented to me. Because the honorable gentleman has informed the House that, in his opinion, it was done at the specific request of the Shire of Hastings--

Mr. DUNSTAN.-Through its local member.

Mr. WILTON.-The local member is the Minister of Water Supply. The information given to me was tha t a meeting took . place in the

Premier's office at which it was clear­ly indicated by the Government that it expected the Shire of Hastings to enter into a rating agreement and that a Bill would be introduced into and passed by Parliament to ensure that the council could enter into an agreement. In the debate on the Local Government (Decentralized Industries) Bill, which is recorded at page 3802 of volume 270 of Hansard of 16th May, 1963, the then Minister of Transport, Mr. Meagher-not the present Minister-informed the House-

I stress that this Bill gives no concession to anyone - it merely makes .it possible for a municipal council to make some con­tribution to the welfare of its district by entering into an arrangement with an in­dustry to establish itself in that district, and to make that agreement effective subject to the approval of -the Governor in Council. It would be unfortunate if it were to be as­sumed that the purpose of this measure is to help the interests of the BP company by obtaining rate concessions from the Shire of Hastings. That is essentially a matter be­tween the BP company and the shire.

One is entitled 'to assume from these remarks that the Government was clearly establishing as a principle that concessions or agreements would be left strictly to the muni­cipality and the company concerned. The then Minister of Transport was attempting to make it clear to the House that the Government would not interfere if no agreement were made.

However, it is obvious now that in 1969 when negotiations were 'taking place between John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. and the Government a firm commitment was made by someone on behalf of the Govern­ment that if the council did not come to the party the Government would take steps to ensure tha t an agreement was made to the benefit of the company.

Let us now look at the morals of the Government, with which the Min­ister of Water Supply was so con­cerned a few moments ago.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-I referred to the morals of the council.

Western Port (Steel [7 MARCH, 1972.] Works Rating) Bill. 3975

Mr. WILTON.-At least the hon­orable gentleman became interested in morals. Firstly, it is significant to know that the Bill contains a list of sums of money which will be the minimum rates to be paid by the company. It has also been made apparent to: me by the shire council that the figures comprise the last offer made by the company in negotiations that were taking place between it and the shire. Two sets of figures of which I have knowledge indicate what the council considered the company should pay in rates during the respective years from 1971 to 1983 and the figures which the company was prepared to' pay. The figures contained in the last submission made by the company to the council are almost identical with the figures listed in the table in clause 3 of the Bill. This leads me to the conclusion that John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd. has struck its own rate and has informed the Govern­ment what rates it will pay to' the council.

The Government is prepared to agree with that by forcing this Bill through Parliament and even refusing not only the Shire of Hastings but also local government in general the right and opportunity of presenting their views to this Par­liament. The Government is forcing this private Bill through Parliament after using its numbers to have the measure treated as a public Bill and has given no indication that it is prepared to refer the matter to a statutory committee, thereby denying a significant section of the community the right to have its views placed befO're Parliament. The sums in the last offer which was made to the council by the company are almost identical to those in the Bill. In fact, in some cases. Lysaght's offered more than the Bill provides for. I have no doubt that the figures have been 'worked out carefully to coin­cide with the development pro­gramme of the 'company. For 1981, the Bill provides that the council would receive $710,000. The last sum

offered to the council by the com­pany for 1981 was $716,000, so there is a deficiency of $6,000 for that year. In my view this company has had the luxury of striking its own rate.

Mr. MACLELLAN.-It is a mini­mum.

Mr. WIILTON.-The honorable member is not so naive as to con­sider that the company's building programme will not develop during the years so that these ·figures in the Bill 'will, in fact, be the amounts which the council receives, almost to the dollar.

Mr. HAMER.-The amount will de­pend on the valuation and the rate in the dollar.

Mr. W'ILTON,-It is obvious from' the interjections which are begin­ning to come from the Government side of the House that few honor­able members on the Government back benches have bothered to read the report or the Bill or to make themselves familiar with the matter bef.ore the House. The 'Minister is attempting to justify the actions of the Government by an argument that what the company will pay will depend on the rate in the dollar. Most honorable members know that the Local Government Act places a ceiling on how much in the dollar a municipal council may levy by way of rates. rrhe rate in 'Hastings is not much below that ceiling now. There is every reason to believe that the Hastings Shire Council may ,well find itself in a situation in 'which, to obtain the amount of revenue sufficient for its needs it would have to levy a rate above the limit allowed by the Local Government Act.

I return to the amount of revenue which the Government, by introduc­ing this Bill, is demanding that the Shire of Hastings must forfeit. In the eleven-year period from 1973 to 1983, the Shire of Hastings will lose the sum of $8,577,000 if this Bill becomes law. That estimate is based on the council's estimate of what it ,considers the rates should ,be as

3976 Western Port (Steel [ASSEMBLY.] Works Rating) Bill.

against the rates the Government is forcing on it. Instead of the muni­cipality receiving $14·242 million, the Government is forcing it to accept $5·655 million for the period. U sing a conservative estimate of 1,000 em­ployees of the company, the State Government will receive $2 million in pay-roll tax levied at the rate of 3! per cent for the same period. The average wage in the industry-taken from figures applying to the opera­tions of the same company in New South Wales-is $90 per head, per week, across the board.

Of course, the figure of 1,000 employees is 'almost ridiculously con­servative. There is every indication that the number .of employees will be substantially more. The Hastings Shire Council has employed a [con­sultant company, P.E. Consulting Gr.oup, management consultants, which undertook an extensive sur­vey for the council with a view to advising it .of the sort of revenue it ,will need to meet its commitments to its ratepayers over the period for which these provisions will apply. Thatc.ompany forecast that Lysaght's will employ 900 people in 1973 and 7,957 in 1982. Taking the current average wage for the em­ployees ,of the company in New South Wales and applying it to those figures, it appears that the Victorian Government will receive in excess of $1 million a year in pay-roll ,tax from the company. Yet it demands that the ratepayers of the Shire of Hastings should suffer a loss of $8 !Dillion.

This is the decentralization policy of the Government 'which, .of Icourse, will be much to the f.ore in talking about decentralization and what a marvellous job it has done in bring­ing an integrated steelworks into Victoria. I emphasize that this will be at 'a cost to the ratepayer of Hastings and at no cost to the Government. Under the agreement which was ratified by the Parliament for the establishment of the steel­works at 'Westernport, the Govern­ment sold land to the company for

Mr. Wilton.

$700,000. Wharfage charges will be levied by the Government to pay for establishing a navigation channel in Westernport Bay for the large ships which will come to the wharves to be built by the company on the land to be reclaimed. lIn compari­son with the wharfage rates charged in the three other ports in this State, Melbourne, Geelong and Port­land, the wharfage rates will be most beneficial to the company.

Nevertheless, the Minister for Fuel and Power who introduced the mea­sure was delighted to inform Parlia­ment that it was a sound investment from the Government's point of view, that the money ,spent by the Govern­ment in establishing nav.igation channels and navigational aids would be recouped from the company with interest at 10! per cent.

When a Bill relating to pay-roll tax was before Parliament, members of the Opposition pointed out that it was a golden opportunity for the Government to take some practical action by using that form of taxa­tion to promote decentralization on a worth-while scale. In the interests of its ratepayers and the develop­ment .of the municipality, Hastings Shire Council decided as a matter of policy that Lysaght's would not

. receive a rate concession. The Gov­ernment took the extraordinary step of establishing a so-called independ­entcommittee, one member of which had already formed the opinion that a rate concession should be granted.

The Government has attempted to represent this committee as being independent, and it is now saying to Hastings Shire Council and to local government authorities in gen­eral, "If you do not toe the line, we will steam-roll you with legislation". That -is the position. The Govern­ment is prepared to: sit back and enjoy an income of over $1 million a year from pay-roll tax and at the same time demand that the rate­payers of the Shire of Hastings should carry the burden of the cost of decentralization; It is an outr~ge·

Western Port (Steel [7 MARCH, 1972.] Works Rating) Bill. 3977

that the Government should use its numbers to force this measure through Parliament.

The history of this matter is dis­turbing. Over the years when this large industrial organiza tion was showing an interest in the develop­ment of steel works at Westernport various press statements were made, and in typical fashion the Premier jumped in boots and all. On 24th January, 1970, an article appeared in the Age' newspaper under the heading" Premier attacks Hastings: Sabotage". It stated-

The Premier (Sir Henry Bolte) last night accused Hastings Shire Council of sabotag­ing the biggest industrial development deal ever landed in Victoria.

Any sabotage committed has been by this Government of the Hastings Shire Council and ratepayers. The article continued-

He described council as U small people with small minds" over its refusal to give rate concessions to ·the proposed $1,000 million steel works at Westernport Bay, Hastings.

That was on 24th January, 1970. This afternoon I heard the Minister of Transport assert that Hastings Shire Council had agreed to a rating concession. In 1970, the Premier attacked the same councillors and referred to them as saboteurs. The newspaper article also stated-

And he said State Cabinet would con­sider setting up of the mill--proposed by John Lysaght (Aust.) Ltd.-at Portland in­stead of Hastings.

At that time the Premier was using threa ts hoping to frighten the council into giving in to his demands. As it turned out, these councillors are men of substance who are pre­pared to stand up.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-Some of them are.

Mr. WILTON.-Perhaps the Mini­ster will be prepared to enlighten the House which councillors of the Shire of Hastings he considers are men of substance. I am sure the councillors would be interested to

learn which of them enjoys the re­spect of the Minister of Water Supply.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-No, the respect of the ratepayers.

Mr. WILTON.-Thosecouncillors who do not enjoy his respect would also like to be informed, and I invite the Minister to state his position. The newspaper article continued-

Portland has made 'a bid for the huge project and Lysaght executives are to dis­cuss the idea with the council.

The most reliable information avail­able to me is that at no time has the Portland council had any discussion with this company Dr ever enter­tained the idea that it would estab­lish in that district, because Lysaght's want to establish at West­ernport. Firstly, it is a deep sea port; and secondly, it is adjacent to Victoria's new fuel sources-gas and oil. This firm established at Wollon­gong and Newcastle in New South Wales in the early days of the steel industry because of the port facilities available and the fact ·that coalfields were nearby. With the discovery of natural gas and oil in commercial quantities in Bass Strait, with the new techniques developed and new mills designed, it is obvious that industrial organizations want to establish in that area for reasons which from their point of view are legitimate reasons. Therefore, the Premier was doing what he fre­quently does-flying a kite and mak­ing press statements, hoping to frighten Hastings Shire Council into caving in on this issue and selling out their ratepayers for a mess of potage which the Premier himself is not pre­pared to accept.

When members of the Opposition put forward the proposal that pay­roll tax could be used wisely by a Government in the interests of de­centralization, it was rejected out of hand by the Government. If this Bill is passed, no municipality out­side the metropolitan area will be safe from the pressures which can be brought to bear on municipalities

3978 Western Port (Steel [ASSEMBLY.] Works Rating) Bill.

either by industries or by the Gov­ernment. I dare say that Hastings Shire Council is concerned about what is going to happen. If the Bill is passed and the Government forces this agreement on the council it would be reasonable for Hastings Shire Council to say that if BP Australia Ltd., having exhausted its rights in the courts, cannot get a rating concession from Hastings Shire Council, it will approach the Govern­ment and demand the same treatment that is being given to Lysaght's. That would be a legitimate attitude for the B.P. company to take be­cause, as an industrial organization, why would it not be entitled to the same rights as Lysaght's?

Mr. DUNSTAN.-The company al­ready has the same rights.

·Mr. WIL TON.-The 'Minister of Water Supply is so out of touch with his own electorate that he is not aware that the rating agree­ment between the B.P. company and the Shire of Hastings does not now exist because the subsidiary company concerned, BP Refinery (Westernport) Pty. L,td., has gone into liquidation 'and the County Court has upheld the council's case. It has indicated that the council has no other course but to 'rate BP Australia Ltd. in accordance wHh the pro­visions of the Local Government Act. The council has had some ex­perience at the hands of ,this com­pany and it is fearful of the final outcome; even though the court up­held its rights, it lives in the shadow of the Government bowing to big industry.

It is obvious that the Government is not prepared to make any prac­tical contribution in the interests of decentralization. Firstly, the Opposi­tion seriously challenges the Gov­ernment's premise that this is a decentralized industry. Secondly, the Government attempted to ·make it clear to Parliament that it would not interfere with municipalities in their rating agreements, despite the warning of the Opposition and of the

then Leader of the Country Party, the honorable member for Murray Valley, ·who, as reported at page 3801 of volume 270 of Hansard, stated-

It should not be taken for granted that every industry which considers establishing itself outside a radius of 25 miles from Mel­bourne cannot expect to browbeat a muni­cipality into granting it the best possible deal. I believe this aspect should be watched carefully.

The honorable member for Murray Valley had grave doubts when the then 'Minister of Transport 'was try­ing to establish that under no 'Cir­cumstances would the Government interfere with a council to the extent that it is 'today. As I said at the outset, members of the Opposition oppose this Bill, which contemplates an unwarranted intrusion. On many occasions the Premier has com­plained bitterly about the Federal Government intruding into the taxa­tion rights of the State Government. He has turned the Ministerial table into his own wailing wall and howled about his colleagues in Can­berra walking over the top of him and denying him his rights as Treasurer of Victoria in the use of certain taxing instruments. Now 'the same honorable gentleman is saying to the Shire of Hastings, "Regard­less of what you say, you will ac­cept this and you will take it or leave it ".

The Premier is even denying the shire the opportunity of ·any say in the matter. It is a dark day for local government and it cleqrly shows the political hypocrisy of the Government. If the back-bench members of the Government party are prepared to sit dumb and accept this sort of measure, local govern­ment in Victoria has a dark future. I estimate that because of the num­ber of employees who will work in this industry, and on the basis that the average wage across the board in this industry is $90 a week, and the fact that the Government levies 3! per cent pay-roll tax, the Gov­ernment will receive in excess of $1 million dollars a year. However,.

Western Port (Steel [7 MARCH, 1972.] Works Rating) Bill. 3979

it is not prepared to spend a cent in the interests of decentralization. It is denying the ratepayers of the Shire of Hastings a sum in excess of $8 million over an eleven-year period from 1973 to 1983. This is provided for in sub-clause (3) of clause 2 of the Bill.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-That is the mini­mum rate.

Mr. WILTON.-That is so. I am prepared to accept that the building programme of this company will be so geared that the valuation in each of those years will provide approxi­mately the amounts of money set out in the table in the legislation. The Bill also provides that if certain circumstances arise a committee shall be established. It also provides that if no agreement has been made pursuant to section 811BA of the Local Government Act 1958 between the council and the company with respect to the land, the ·Minister shall appoint a committee consisting of a barrister and solicitor of the Supreme Court of Victoria nomi­nated by the president of the Law Institute of Victoria, a person nomi­nated by the council and a person nominated by the company to Il).ake recommendations.

What is wrong with having that type of committee appointed when the council indicated that it was not willing to enter into an agreement and when the Government wanted an examination made? Why should it choose instead three depart­mental heads, one of whom had already indicated to the council that in his opinion as Director of State Development agreement should be reached be­tween the council and the company? The Opposition rejects the measure. It is unwarranted and unwanted by all sections of local government.

On the motion of Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until ne~t day.

ADJOURNMENT. DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL AVIATION:

ESSENDON AIRPORT-POLICE DEPART­MENT: CONTROL OF WATER SKIERS: CONDITION OF PORT FAIRY POLICE STATION - EDUCATION DEPART­MENT: 'MERRILANDS HIGH SCHOOL: PRIMARY TEACHERS' TRAINING COURSE.-DEPARTMENT OF AGRICUL­TURE: DUMPING OF SURPLUS EGGS.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).-I move-

That the House, at its rising, adjourn until tomorrow, at half-past Three o'clock.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I move-

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr. WILTON (Bro'admeadows).-I ask the Chief Secretary if he will be good enough to discuss with the Premier the subject of an answer supplied by the Premier to a question without notice earlier today on the actions of the Commonwealth Gov­ernment regarding the future use of Essendon Airport. The Premier was good enough to indicate that he has been informed as recently as today that the Prime Minister has indicated to him that a committee has been established by the Commonwealth Government to investigate the poss­ible future use of the airport. I should like the Chief Secretary to ask the Premier whether he is pre­pared to discuss with the Prime Minister the possibility of Victoria being represented on that committee. The Commonwealth Government could make a decision which would bring to an end the life of the Essendon area as an airport. The Essendon Airport is a sizeable tract of land, ideally located, and I am sure if a strong case were presented to the Commonwealth it may be in­fluenced to approve that this would be a golden opportunity for the Commonwealth and the State to join forces and use the tract of land in the interests of the community.

3980 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-Orcter! The honorable member will be making a speech if he goes on to the use of the land.

Mr. WILTON.-I will not go into any great detail on that point, Mr. Speaker. I consider that some effort should be made a t the highest possible level for the State to be represented by an appropriate Mini­ster on the committee that is con­sidering this question with a view to influencing the Commonwealth concerning the future use of the airport. Every effort should be made to ensure that this significant area of land is utilized in the interests of Melbourne in particular, and the State of Victoria in general.

Mr. TREWIN (BenaHa).-I should like to bring before the House the use of Victoria's inland waters, and nO' doubt some of its other water resources, by those who indulge in the sport of water skiing. Throughout the summer it is difficult for the Motor Boating Squad to keep a watchful eye over the State's many water resorts. The few motor boats that are available to the police cannot always be transported to certain areas, and insufficient officers are used "in policing the waterways.

I ask the Chief _ Secretary, through the Police Department, to assist in promoting an asso­ciation or league of water skiers. Just as 'cricket is organized through the Victorian Cricket Association, football through the Victorian Foot­ball League, and other sports through various other State organizations, so the water skiers -could form them­selves into an organization that could prove beneficial to themselves and encourage a sense of respons­ibility amongst its members. I am aware that the majority of water skiers are responsible people, but now and again an individual acts somewhat irresponsibly, perhaps by skiing close to the shore where child­ren are swimming. Therefore I ask the Chief Secretary whether the police

could assist in developing an organi­zation that could bring about an ethical standing among water skiers and those who use waters for sporting activities. The establishment of such an association not only would result in a better organization among water skiers, but also would m'ean that many who use the waters, especially children who swim in shallow water near the edges of water storages and on beaches, could be guaranteed a certain amount of safety.

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland).­I wish to draw to the attention of the Chief Secretary and the Minister for Social Welfare an incident that occurred in July of last year at Port Fairy. Four or five juveniles were apprehended and placed in a cell at Port Fairy police station, where they remained all night. The next morning following a complaint by the mother of one of the boys who suffered from a respiratory complaint the local health officer, Dr. Sparling, inspected the cells and submitted a report to the Department of Health. If I may be permitted to read this report to honorable members, I shall be able to explain it more fully.

The SPEAKER (Sir Vernon Christie).-I do suggest '1'0 the honor­able member that in the terms of the adjournment of the House it is far more effective to paraphrase than to quote letters.

Mr. W. J. LEWIS.-I shall para­phrase it, Mr. Speaker. The health officer submitted a re­port to the Commissioner of Public Health stating that the cell at the Port Fairy police station was a disgrace. It was not weatherproof and ventilation consisted of only a few holes bored in the roof. Some of the blankets issued to the occupants were tom and no mattresses or palliasses were provided in the cell. The cell had no windows and there are still none. Sanitary conditions were poor to say the least. They consisted of one pan with some dis­infectant, and there 'was evidence of urine 'On the walls. All this was

Adjournment. [7 MARCH, 1972.] Adjournment. 3981

brought to the notice of the Department of Health and up to the present no action has been taken. I should like the Minister concerned to investigate this matter and to en­sure that appropriate action is taken to remedy the defects.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir).­I desire to raise a question regarding the staffing of Merrilands High School in the electorate of Reservoir. Students in the sixth form of the school are without an art teacher, and the school made an arrange­ment whereby the students concern­ed would be taught at Coburg High School at night. However, I understand that the Education Department has informed the school that this arrangement cannot be pro­ceeded with. I ask the Minister immediately to investigate the possibility of appointing an art teacher to 'Merrilands High School so that form VI. students may receive tuition in art. I also ask the Minister to investigate the pO'sition of mathe­matics, science and English teachers at the school.

Mr. KmKWOOD (Preston).-I wish to bring to the attention 'Of the House the substantiated story in the Sun News-Pictorial of 2nd 'March of this year concerning the proposed dumping at sea of 45 million dozen eggs. The Combined Pensioners As­sociation in the City of Preston has requested authority to distribute the eggs to needy people in the area. A number of auxiliaries are doing won­derful work for those who are less fortunate in the community. I suggest therefore that the Government should give consideration to this worth-while proposition of distribution rather than dumping of surplus eggs.

·Mr. GINIFER (Deer P.ark).-I raise a matter concerning courses now be.ing taught at primary teachers' training colleges. I direct the at­tention of the Minister of Education to the fact that the implementation of the three-year diploma course for primary teachers. means that the former C'ourse for the infant teachers' certificate is no longer available.

Queries have been raised concerning the training of teachers specifically for infant departments of primary schools. It has been suggested - I believe .correctly - that all teachers trained as primary teachers should be able to te.ach from the preparatory grades up to grade 6. On the other hand, it has been suggested that per­haps some additional weight should be given to preparing teachers fOT infant departments in prim·ary schools.

I ask the Minister ·to inquire whether this is the position or whether the public has been misin­formed on the ·matter. Moreover, I ask whether the honorable gentleman would permit me on some future occasion to visit some of the pr.i­mary teachers' training colleges in the State.

Mr. HAMER (Chief Secretary).­I shall certainly discuss with the Premier the matter raised by the honorable member for Broad­meadows concerning the possibility of having a Victorian Government representative on the committee examining the future of the Essendon Airport. I shall ask the Premier to reply direct to the honorable member, possibly after the honorable gentle­man has made inquiries from the Prime Minister.

Concerning the matter raised by the honorable ,member for Benalla, I should certainly welcome the for­mation of an associat,ion of water skiers. I imagine that numerous clubs of water skiers ·already exist and it may be only a matter of combining them !into some form of association. Perhaps it will happen automatically, especially ,if they have some interest to promote. I would be less receptive to the proposal that the police should take some initiative in this matter as I believe 'members of the Police Force have enough to do without forming a water skiers' association, although ,I appreciate that the pur­pose of 'Such an association would be to promote greater safety amongst water skiers, particularly close to shore where they could present a