Microsoft Word - VAOHP0048_F01.docxNarrator: TUAN ANH LE
Length of Interview: 01:40:02
KL: Okay. What is your name?
TAL: My name’s Tuan. Last name Le, Le. Middle name Anh.
KL: And your date of birth?
TAL: Born in 1957…December 2nd 1957, yeah.
KL: Where were you born?
TAL: I born in Vietnam, Khánh Hòa, Vietnam. A small time in the middle of Vietnam, now they
call Nha Trang.
KL: What were your parents’ names?
TAL: My parents’ name is Le The Truong. And my mom’s Phuong Thi Xuan. My dad is
military, he work for air force, and my mom is pass away a while ago. I don’t remember much
about her because she passed away when I was just 6 years old. So I lived with my dad and step
mom.
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TAL: I grow up in…first when I young I grow up in Khánh Hòa, small town in the middle of the
Vietnam, and when my dad transfer to another military base in Saigon, Tân Sn Nht, so we
move to Saigon. So I live in Saigon until I grow up until I, you know draft into the army.
KL: Were those the only two cities you lived in in Vietnam?
TAL: No I lived in a lot of…when I grow up, when I draft in the army, and when I’m in the
army, and I go a lot of cities in Vietnam. Like Bình Hòa, Nha Trang, Hu, Cam Ranh Base, and
Cn Th. That’s before 1975, and after 1975, I travel a lot of places. I go a lot of place like Kênh
Giang, Rch Giá, Bình Long, Phan Thit, à Nng, Tây Ninh, and back to Saigon.
KL: Can you tell me about some of your childhood memories? What you did when you were
growing up, or anything you remember from your childhood?
TAL: I don’t remember in the childhood because I go to high school. I don’t remember in the
middle of middle school, but I go to high school. The school is Le Bao Tinh. Then I go to
another one they call Nguyn Trãi. And I finish high school and that time the war getting bigger
and bigger in Vietnam, and after I finish high school I go to college in Vietnam. Vietnam is the
school is different than America, and Vietnam you finish high school and then you can join in
what you like to do. Like I like to do is law, so I join, so I go to law school, like if you like to go
to Doctor, you just go to Doctor school, or you like Engineer, you go to engineer school. Not like
in America, you have to go do over again with the gener- genera- what’s that called?
Generation…regular education again in college in Vietnam we don’t have to do that. When you
finish the high school that means you done with the education, general education, and then after
that you go to, you know the school of whatever you like. So I go to first year in law school in
Saigon and at that time I had draft into the war, about 17 years old. 16 and half actually, 16 and
half I have to join to the military because if I don’t join in, okay, when 17 they draft you in, you
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have no choice, but when I 16 and half, 17, almost 17, I join in so I have a choice so I pick the air
force. I join into the air force. I take the test, I pass, and then I join the air force, but if they draft
you in you have to go to the general, like the army, you don’t have, you don’t have a choice to
pick it out. And then after the army, and then you can pick out the air force…navy…or army,
you know.
KL: Before that did you have any other jobs?
TAL: Yeah, before that when I go to high school, I have, I work for the shipyard because I like
to, in Vietnam, most of the place you have people go out because we have the ocean almost like
along the coast. Vietnam is the country along the coast, so you know; there are a lot of shipyards
in Vietnam, so that time I work when I was young I work for shipyard. I’m the welder, and the
drawer of the ship, you know, like you draw and cut the metal, how to build the ship in Vietnam.
KL: So when you were doing that, did you guys gather together for events with your coworkers
or with neighbors or just in the city did you have…?
TAL: Yeah, when I do that, before I join the army, and you know, we usually hang around. The
same like in America, but over there you have weekends, we have weekends really relax, from
like Friday night after work. And because you don’t have school on the day time, and you work
usually, usually you work seven or six days a week, you work the evening until midnight, and
then you go home then go to school. But like on the weekend you don’t have to work, and no
school, so usually the Friday night and Saturday night is the good day, and me and friends go out
together and have, go to the bar, go to music, or you know, go to drink and all the stuff like that.
KL: What kind of music played at the bars during that time?
TAL: Usually at that time, you know, the music is like rock and roll in America, that’s the old
time. And then some people like the Vietnamese music and some people like, you know,
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American music, but I like a lot of American music at that time because that time was rock and
roll like and the soft music like from America.
KL: Is that when you learned to play the Beach Boys songs?
TAL: That time because I play the guitar because, you know, when you have free time in
Vietnam, you got, you know, not much stuff to play so you have to play the guitar with the
friends, and I learn to play a lot from Beach Boys, from America, and Santana at that time, you
know, there is a lot of music from Santana at that time, so I learn how to play the guitar and
sometime I play in a band at the weeknights at the nightclub so you got some paid extra at that
time. So everything becomes money in Vietnam, you know, so that’s how I become good at
guitar, so I play at the bar, at the nightclub.
KL: So when the war started did it affect how your relationship with your friends when you used
to go out?
TAL: Yeah, when, you know, the war had been a long, long time in Vietnam, but when you are
17 you have to get into the army, everybody had to join in the army at that time, and you know
most of the friends, my friends go to different, I go to the air force and friend of mine go to, you
know, the tanker, and some of them go to the, you know, gun ship, and you know everybody go
around and we don’t have a lot of the communication together, and once a while we, you know,
we see each other at the Saigon because that’s the place that everybody has their day off from the
army. You know, and then you join together in Saigon and hang out together, go to night club,
dancing, you know, that’s all.
KL: How about you and your dad, since you guys are both in the army, how often were you guys
able to see each other?
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TAL: When I young, I go to school, I go to work regularly, I don’t see dad much, and the time
we join the army, and my dad station in Saigon, Tân Sn Nht, and I stationed in Bình Hòa, so
actually we don’t see each other much any, and then when I move to another station in Cn Th,
so you know, actually I didn’t see him until almost, you know, a year, and until the Vietnam lost,
and I go my way, and he go his way. So actually nobody see each other after 20 years later, I see,
you know, I fly back to the country to see my dad.
KL: Where did you live during the war? Was there set cities you stayed in? Or was it always on
the move?
TAL: In the war I have, you know, you go with your station, so like today, like when I just, when
I get in, I base in Tân Sn Nht with my dad for a couple months, and then after that they
transfer me to Bình Hòa. I stay there for a while, couple months, and then they transfer me to
another station in Cn Th, and so I stay in there for a while until, I believe I stay in Cn Th, in
my last station, I stay there until the war end.
KL: What was your main occupation during the war? What was your job for the most part?
TAL: In the most part, in so I just in the war I the newbie for officer, the new office in the army,
so I train for fly the helicopter, I waiting to go to the training in America, but at that time the war
was so very strong and nobody go at that time and we have to fly whatever we have left and then
we have to use gunship in the US1 helicopter. And that time, and that’s why I base in Cn Th at
that time for a while to support like the army, and usually most of the air force and you stay and
you support at night time or whatever the daytime or nighttime when they call support from
army. In the war, yeah in the war, right on the ground when they call, you have to fly out there
and support them usually you shoot when you come up you clear the area so the army can come
in, and then you drop the army in and you take off.
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KL: What do you remember most about the war time?
TAL: I don’t think any good for remember of the war time because I been, when we go back to
the station we, you know, sometimes we fly at night, we drop the light on the land, we go to pick
up the people got the injury when they fighting, we pick up the people with the injury in fighting
and sometimes because the helicopter was very limited, sometime we have to carry a lot of
people, the helicopter full of blood and every day we see people die, some friends of us, some
friends of mine, you know, we are the same company, and sometime we go and never come
back. And some other people, someone lucky, its okay, someone not, and when they took off,
that’s it, that’s the last flight, and they don’t coming back, and we have to carry a lot of body
when they die, bring them back to the, you know, hospital. Some people, you know, lucky they
still alive and we take them to the hospital and some people don’t, or sometime we not make it
there, so it’s very hard. I don’t think the, there’s a lot of memories in that, but most of them is a
sad story and you don’t want to, you know, hear about it, but people don’t in the war don’t
understand what is it at nighttime, and sometime you sleep, you can’t sleep because of the bomb
go off and the rockets drop. And we listen in the radio and they need, you know, support, we
have to go. And sometimes we don’t have enough helicopter to go up to support, so we have to
order them from a different city, so because we, you know, it’s only limited area we can support.
And most every day like that, day go by and people injury, missing people, injury, people cry,
people die, house burn, everything you can name it.
KL: Did it feel like time was going by slower or faster because all of that was happening?
TAL: Time kind of just like you know regular every day, you know, it’s like regular every day
and most the time we don’t have the home, we just stay in the base, you know. Most of us we
don’t, we stay in the base, in the day time, you know, we just divide like we work, you stay in
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the station like ten hours or twelve hours, and we sleep whatever we do someone always have the
people stay awake in case any people call in to support and you have to fly right away. And you
know, if you have a family, it’s okay, you can go home, if you don’t have time to do it, not in
duty, but I don’t have any family, so I just stay in the station and then I just, you know, when the
time off I just go out in the city, you know, around and coffee. Sometime, you know, I get a
couple beers, and then go back to the station and do the job again, and the day go by like every
days the same, nothing different. First couple, first month was kind of very hard for people in,
you see a lot of sorrow stories, but after that, its war, you can’t, you have to expect it.
KL: When you guys were low on helicopters or when there were too many soldiers that were
injured, did anyone you know, or were you, held as or captured by the enemy during the war?
TAL: The end of war I have captured by enemy, so I have to, I was in the station, and they take
over the station, so I was there, so actually they don’t do anything with me, I just transfer
whatever we had left, transfer to the new government, and then I do whatever they tell me to do,
and then for a couple months and couple, like a year later, and they just let me go. You know,
I’m not a prisoner of the war anymore, and then, you know, when I go back to my hometown and
then they put you in training camp again for, you know, training camp again to do the, you know,
to teach you what’s good, what’s bad, why you’re fighting at that time. But most of the time, we
just, you know, laughing, that’s all.
KL: That’s the re-education camp right?
TAL: Yes that’s the re-education camp, it’s just a camp, but nothing to education in there so they
put you in there so you go do a lot of stuff for yourself. They have people to teach you some of
why we do that, and why, you know, they win or something like that, but most of the time that in
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my mind I just do whatever they say and then at nighttime I just go, try to get to sleep, because if
you don’t do that you will keep thinking and you will get stress real bad.
KL: What happened to the people who didn’t follow the orders?
TAL: No, everybody followed the order, but a lot of people just try to be, you know, feel bad
because they think, you know, most people like they are like a lieutenant or captain or higher,
they think they feel bad so they get stressed and they get sick, and you know, when you get sick
in the re-education camp, you don’t have any medication. You don’t have medication that’s bad,
and also the food is not enough for you, so you got, you know, the best way I always tell a lot of
people there, get it out of your ear. Just shake your head and just, you know, shake your head and
whatever they say just you are that’s it. Then night time try to get into sleep, because the bed is
not comfortable, it’s not a mattress, no mattress, so you have to sleep good, and next day you go
to work whatever they tell you. The day just goes by until I get out of camp; you know, run away
from the country and go to America.
KL: What kind of work did they have you do?
TAL: Most the time you have to, when they first beginning, when I got captured by the
communist, I have to teach them what I do before, and how the helicopter fly, how to shoot the
gun, how you refuel the fuel, and how you fix it when they have a problem, and then after they
know everything for after a year, now in a year they know everything about, so they just say I’m
a good people, after they re-education me and release me to the hometown, and I go home, go to
the hometown and they put me in the education camp again, and they just ask you to do like the
farming stuff, so a couple years again and you just do whatever they say, but I don’t know. Let’s
see, the thing they tell you to do is good or bad, but you just do it, and do the farming for a
couple years, and until everything kind of slow down, and the communist feel better and they
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learn more stuff, and they let us go home. And we run away from the country and we go to
America.
KL: During the time you were in the reeducation camp or before or after, did you or any of your
family members get injured or have/form any disabilities?
TAL: No, when I was in the refugee camp, because that’s a war time. Injury or disability does
not count, no matter what you do, you have to try to work, even if you sick or cannot walk, you
still have to walk. And you cannot say, oh I’m so sick today, and you can’t do anything, you
know, that’s the war time. After the war end, a lot of things can be happen because there was no
food, they have no clothes, you use whatever the clothes you can find, you know, it was very bad
time so you don’t, they’re just people surviving. You cannot say oh I’m sick, I cannot work
today, there’s not the word called sickness at that time or disability at that time, you just do it,
you work, you survive, if your body cannot handle it, you get sick more and you die at the war
time and in Vietnam.
KL: What were the last days of the war like?
TAL: That’s a very crazy day and I don’t know how people feel, but that time, you know, I got
captured in the station so, you know, I kind of feel weird, you think you’re already maybe kill
you or something like that, but you know, I think everybody mind’s like that, and then after that,
you know couple days, you see they don’t kill us at that time you know, that’s normal like every
day, but the day the war end, it was a crazy day. You cannot believe it. The whole country
collapse and people just dropped the gun, no government, no everything, no police, only the
other side, the communist side, with the rifle and with the tank all over the city. And after that
day, you know, after the day the war ends, everything seem like dark for; I guess for about
almost a year, the place was dark because there was nobody fix anything, there was nobody.
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Actually the communist had to do a lot of work because some people take in charge a lot of
stations, like electric, water, and communications. Some people already go away and nobody
take care of it, and the country kind of nothing. No gas, no food, no market for a while, and after
that everything become to normal.
KL: So what happened to the family, or your friends and family when there was no food? Did
you guys live on rations?
TAL: No, you have to, you know, you have to survive, you go to like the countryside and try to
buy some food there or you try to, you know, because most the farmers, some of them go away,
and the house is empty, so the farm is empty, so you can get some rice and some, you know,
some potato, sweet potato, and some the crop left over and you use it until the communist take
everything, and then you have to work for communist to make some money. And then after that
everything goes back to normal, not the regular normal like before, but like normal people sell
some stuff, and people have food for sale, but the price was totally different, some of them was
very high and some of them were normal, because the money had been changed after the war
over. The communist don’t want to use the South, the money, after the war they didn’t want to
use the South people’s money, so they change the money, so most the people became poor again,
so they only limit how much money you can change, other than that, any other money you had to
throw them away.
KL: So how did you earn money when it was hard times?
TAL: You have to go, you know actually, with me I have to in the camp, I guess people have to
work for low money, but I in the education camp and we didn’t have any money and they just
provide us the food, not a lot of food, we have to grow the food, we have to do the farming, and
in the education camp, that’s how we got the food to eat together, but some people have the
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money, the family have the money, they came over to the camp to take care of them, but I don’t
have any family, so you know, people have been, my dad getting old so I didn’t want him going
over there to see me. So I look like I disappear so he don’t even know me, where I am, so I just
work in the camp and get some money. And get some food, that’s all. And sometimes I, because
I know a lot of stuff, I can fix a lot of stuff when I served in the army, I do a lot of stuff for
people around, and after the war, a lot of things broken, like the jeep cannot run, the machine
cannot work, so I do for them, and they pay me some money. It’s not a lot, but it’s enough for
you to buy some stuff, some clothes, you know, used clothes not new clothes, and then some
food to live until the time I get out of the country.
KL: So you were in re-education camp until what year?
TAL: I in the re-education camp until 1975 to 1980.
KL: And what year did you leave Vietnam?
TAL: I left Vietnam in 1981, by the boat people because I go and I fix the boat and I drive the
boat, so people hire me to take care of the boat, and I drive that boat came to America.
KL: What was it like leaving Vietnam? And how did it make you feel?
TAL: At that day, I left Saigon about 4 pm, and me and another friend we drive the boat to the
center of the river, you know the middle of nowhere, and we pick up some water and we buy
some fuel, and some food put in the boat, and at midnight, I pick up 48, total about 46 people
with two of us it was 48 people total. 48 people total in the boat, including the children and some
other people too. In our boat they have the two people they called the officer of the navy, at that
time I think they can help me because I’m not in the navy I was in the air force, one officer in the
navy, one’s a doctor in navy, but actually I don’t think they were navy, the real navy, because
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when the boat get out to the ocean they had the sea sick very bad, and they cannot stand up until
we docked, until the boat docked in the Indonesia.
KL: Did you know all the people on the boat?
TAL: Yeah, I know everybody in the boat, I had to, I believe we had only two people can control
the boat, so that me and another guy, and we have to take care totally, 46 people, and women,
men, and children. And you know, so I have to, actually, in three days out of the country, I have
to stay awake because I have to pump the water out of the boat, that’s a very dirty job because
people pee, poop, and throw up in the boat, and the water went up into the engine compartment
and that’s a lot of water in there so I had to pump the water out at night time to make the boat
stay afloat. A lot of people got sick, and they don’t even know what they do. And some people I
have to hold them when they use the restroom because they could not sit any way, and then I
have to give them food to eat, the water to drink because they don’t know, other than that they
would have been died in three days. And we have to be against the pirates too because at night
time outside in the ocean there’s a lot of pirates out there, and we only carry a couple guns with
me, I only carry a couple guns with me, that’s all I have. So until we arrived into, I believe it is
Natuna island, one of the small islands close to Borneo, so I landed, so I docked the boat in there
and that time we meet the US Army, US Navy, and then they transfer us to, we stayed in Natuna
for two week, two or three week, I can’t remember. At that time I was working too, I have to do
translator with Indonesia people, and I got the food from people to eat, so kind of very, you
know, cool trip. I can’t believe I handle the trip very nice, and you know, and good.
KL: Did anyone die on the ship?
TAL: Nobody died on the ship, that’s a good thing, nobody died on the ship.
KL: Did you bring anything with you?
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TAL: I don’t have anything. I don’t bring anything with me but the gun and bullet.
KL: Did any family members come along other than you?
TAL: No I don’t have any family members go with me. And that time I go with my girlfriend
and her family because the boat owned by my girlfriend’s family and some other people I don’t
like them, but I have to take care of them because all of them sick so some people don’t like me
either, but that’s the way I have to control it. Because that time right outside the ocean, and I take
care the boat, same like I’m a captain, so they have to obey my rules, so I treat everybody the
same, and nobody’s different.
KL: When you left Vietnam, did you feel bad about leaving your dad there?
TAL: Yeah. When I left the country, I feel bad to leave my dad and brother, but you know, I
think that’s survival. You have to do whatever you have to do because it’s a very hard time in the
country, and the communist don’t let me do anything, and I have to do the hard work, not even, I
work for shipyard, I go back to the shipyard to find a job, but you know, they don’t let you do
good work unless you are a communist family. That’s why the reason I had to leave the country.
KL: Did you dad know when you left? Or because you guys didn’t contact each other during
your re-education camp, did you just leave and he didn’t know?
TAL: No, he know the time I left, but he don’t know what day I left Vietnam, he know I would
be leave the country, but he don’t know what day I would be leave Vietnam until when I arrive
in Natuna, I have, I meet one the people, a friend, and he send the paper, the telegram to Vietnam
say I arrived to Natuna island safe, and that time my dad say, after a while he contact me when I
was in the refugee camp, at that time he say he feel good because I left safely. Because most the
people left Vietnam, they can’t make it, and also they have a lot of pirates, and when we left, we
have one the boat, I believe it was a pirate because they want to take over our boat, but I shoot
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them so they go away, and nobody come back, and no pirate come back at that time anymore.
They shoot at us, then I shoot at them, I guess they lost, so they just go away.
KL: What was it like leaving your son behind?
TAL: You know, kind of bad, you know, you have a lot of, you cannot put the things right in
your head. You have to do whatever you have to do, and everything else you do it later because
you have to, like that time, because I serve the army, at that time, now Vietnam was kind of open
a little bit, but before when you serve in the army before, you are a United State military, you
cannot get anything good. It’s not a good job, but decent job in Vietnam because most the decent
job you have to, for the people with the family with the communist. I guess every country is the
same, because the people, when they dream, they can have everything, when the people lose they
don’t have nothing left.
KL: So did you leave your son behind with his mom because they wanted to stay, or because you
couldn’t bring them with you?
TAL: No, I cannot bring them with me, because at that time he was very young and also when
you left, when I left the country, you don’t think you can make it or not, same like you go into
the war. Because I go because people trust me to protect the boat, you know to protect the boat,
to fix the boat, and to protect the people in the boat. Look like you are a, you know, the people
have the money and they have a boat and they want to hire a security, like security guard to
protect themselves in the boat, that’s why I go I don’t have to pay. Most the people who left the
country you have to pay a lot of money, I don’t have to pay anything because I have a gun, the
power, military training, so I know what I can do outside the country when I hit into danger or
the boat get hijack. That’s why most the boat left Vietnam don’t have people like me, so that’s
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why they have hijack by Thailand, the hijack from the Thailand. But my boat, my girlfriend’s
father hired me to do that. That’s why I have to protect everybody out there, you know.
KL: So when you landed in a refugee camp, did you stay at the refugee camp for long or did they
transfer you somewhere else?
TAL: When I go to the refugee camp, it’s called the Galang Island, and in, I think it’s in
Indonesia it’s a Galang in Indonesia, and I stay there, and that time I work with the Indonesia
people. So I make some money at the refugee camp and I stay in the refugee camp about a year
before, because you have to go to the education before you came to America so you know what
America looks like, or something like that, but we already, because that’s the education from
America. They think most Vietnam people don’t know anything about America, but when I serve
in the army, we know most everything in America, what they have and what they do. But when a
lot of people out of country for refugee, most the people don’t have an education that’s why they
called it education amp, so you can educate people how to speak English and everything.
KL: Is that where you learned to speak English?
TAL: No. I didn’t go to speak, or go to learn English in here or either in refugee camp. I do go to
school there but I didn’t learn anything, most the time I learn when I serve in the army because
when you go to the army you have to know how to speak English when you deal with American
people and know how to speak English, and know the operator system, and everything they use
English language, so you have to know everything.
KL: Did they teach you how to write English or read English, or only just speak it?
TAL: No, yeah you have to know how to write and read English because everything in training
in the helicopter or anything like, some other stuff, everything by English not use Vietnam
language, so you know, so actually when I serve in the Air Force everything in English I had to
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learn by myself. So first beginning it kind of very hard, but after a while you know and you keep
learning by yourself, and the main thing I learn that’s a dictionary. That’s the best book to learn
English.
KL: How did you get to come to the United States? Was it like family sponsorship, refugee
status, or by taking classes?
TAL: I went to America because of refugee status because I service in the army and I don’t have
any people here, so they put me in the, you know, they called it the refugee. I stay in the Galang
island, I believe over a year, and then I came in America, I believe 1982. Somehow in that area, I
can’t remember much, but I came here and when I was in refugee camp I have, I adopt one the
kid, the same boat as me but he don’t have any relative in the boat, and he do have a relative but
relative doesn’t want him, so he don’t have any people go with because he’s a minor, at the camp
nobody take care of him, and he in my boat, and I alone so I let him stay with me and I take care
of him until he came to the United States with me. Because when he came to the United States
and someone have been sponsored for him, I believe his uncle or somehow in his family, so
when they came here, and some other reason they sponsor him and he don’t stay with me
anymore after almost two years in the refugee camps. He stay with me for two years, almost two
years in the refugee camp.
KL: Did you stay in contact with him when he went to America or did you guys lose contact
after you left the refugee camp?
TAL: No, I didn’t contact with him after, I believe after 20 years later, he come to visit me. After
20 years later, 20 years or something like that, and then all of sudden I know he find his family
and then he contact me, but I don’t think I met him after that because I know where he live, and
VAOHP0048 17  
he married now, but I don’t know he remember I take care him or not, I hear some people say he
says he remembers me. That’s okay, I don’t ask any return.
KL: When you were at the camp you said you were able to contact your dad, did you contact any
other family members like the son or your brother?
TAL: No because I just contact with my dad because my dad would be transfer whatever I say,
or what I say with any people because it was very limited when you in the refugee camp, very
limited on the letter because it take very long time to go there and sometime the letter never
arrive. So you know, we just try to use the telegraph, so kind of short letter, by the electric, so
you know it’s there, but other than that I do take a picture to send to my dad, but I don’t know if
he receive it or not to my son, but I don’t know. But when you in the camp, you have no control
and the paper work send to Vietnam, you don’t know if they came or not, so we just use
telegraph, because telegraph you know right away they send the letter to your family.
KL: Did you keep any copies of those letters?
TAL: I do keep it for a while, but then I don’t know where I put it after a while, after 10 years, I
think after 10 or 15 years in America, I don’t know where I put it. But I still have a lot of stuff I
still keep it until that time, but after that time I don’t know where the picture gone, so kind of in
America there is a lot of stress so you lose a lot of memory, so I don’t remember where I put it.
KL: When you came to America, what was the first place you went to?
TAL: When the first time I came to America, I went to Louisiana with my sponsor. I believe I
stay there for maybe a week, I believe so. And I have only, I don’t know, I think it’s a refugee
agent; they gave me $200 or $220. And then I buy my airfare ticket from New Orleans to Los
Angeles, because I have a brother who lived in Los Angeles. I came to Los Angeles at midnight
and nobody pick me up at the airport and I don’t know how to get into his house, and I go
VAOHP0048 18  
outside and looking for transportation. They said they have a bus but in the morning, they don’t
have it right now because it is too late, and I sit outside of LAX. I remember one the black guys
ride the taxi, he said where you going, I told him I’m going to Duarte, and I don’t even know
where Duarte is, that’s where my brother live with my Aunt in Duarte. And he told me it’s
expensive man, because it’s too far. And I tell him I only have $20 in my pocket, but of course I
believe I have some more than that, $25 or $26 or something like that, but I tell him I have to
keep a couple dollars to living, and I can pay you only $20. He told me he cannot take me there
for $20. I sit there for a while on the bench outside the LAX, and then I saw him, I saw the same
taxi come by an hour later, and he told me come in man and give me $20, and I give him $20,
and I saw a couple customers in the taxi, and he drive, I remember now, but that time I don’t
remember where he go. So he drive, he drop two of those people in the Hilton, one of the hotel,
Hilton hotel in Pasadena, I know after that, but that time I don’t even know what is it. And after
that I knew it was the Hilton in Pasadena, and after dropping the two customers and he drop me
to my brother’s house at the Buena Vista in Duarte. So I go and see my brother.
KL: What was your first impression of America or California and New Orleans?
TAL: Actually, when I came to America, you know, kind of, a lot of high tech, a lot better than
Vietnam, the house is bigger, we don’t have like that in Vietnam. The thing I learn, a lot of
people in America kind of different. When I first came here before I was in Vietnam, I think
America is like beautiful, nice, but when I came here, I see a lot of poor area and, you know,
before when I was in Vietnam, I didn’t think America had like poor people or something like
that. When I came to America I see a lot of them and, you know, people cheating a lot. So it’s
nothing to impress when I came, but after that I go find a job and, you know, I don’t think
anything is impress, but I see a lot of people nice and honest. But other than that, there’s a lot of
VAOHP0048 19  
bad people, a lot of cheating, you know, so they make it kind of seem like at that time I learn
every country is the same, there’s nothing nicer than other country. Of course they have some
high tech is better, living is better, the food is better, but you know, when you have a job you can
get most everything like that.
KL: When you went on the airplane and flew from New Orleans to California? Or when you
landed in New Orleans or California, did people treat you differently because you were
Vietnamese?
TAL: When I go from Singapore to America, I go with a lot of refugees at that time, and yeah, I
believe they treat you different, but actually they treat me better because I speak English and you
know, I’m kind of like translator for people there, so whatever they need, they tell me and I tell
the people work for aircraft, tell them whatever they need. And I tell them, and it was kind of
okay, because a lot of people don’t understand what they say. Sometimes they have seatbelt and I
have to translate it to the Vietnamese and tell them to seatbelt and everything like that. And when
I came to New Orleans, and then from New Orleans I fly to LAX, they don’t treat any people
different, everybody’s the same. So I go in there, just myself, and you sit, you know, people
don’t mind what you do, that’s a good thing about America, you know, people do whatever you
do in your own business, it’s not other’s business. Some people say American is discrimination,
when I was in high school they said a lot of discrimination, but with me, I don’t see that, I see
every country they treat me the same, but actually I think America is just open more than any
other country.
KL: How did you settle down here, or earn money to live here? Or did your brother help you out
at first?
VAOHP0048 20  
TAL: When I first came here, that night, no, no, the next day, I have to go to K-mart, I
remember, I walk to K-mart I buy a couple jeans, a couple shirts, so I can find a job. So after that
at night time, I go to Winchell’s Donuts, I remember, Winchell’s Donuts, I bought a cup of
coffee. Because in Vietnam usually we drink coffee at night, we go out at night drinking coffee,
and sit down, you know like a coffee shop or something like that, but in America they don’t have
that. At that time they didn’t have a Starbucks at that time, they only have Winchell Donut, I go
to Winchell Donut and I got a cup of coffee and talk to a couple of people, and one of the guy he
work at Winchell Donut ask me, “you want a job?”, I say what job, he say bakery, I say I don’t
know how to bake. He said just come in, you want the job, fill out the form, come in tomorrow, I
teach you how to do the bakery, and at that time I just fill out the application and I come next day
and I have a job in the bakery for a while. And then when I do the bakery, and I have a little bit
of money I buy a car and got a driver license, I bought the car, I drive to the gas station, I fill up
the gas, and one of the guy ask me, “hey, you want a job?”, I say what job, he said attendant, you
know, you take care the gas station for me, and I say okay. At that time, I live in Duarte, kind of
small town in America, and I go to work at the station so night time I work at Winchell Donut,
and day time I work at the gas station, and in the evening I sleep a little bit, and then I go to
Winchell Donut to work again. I work a couple jobs for a while, I believe it’s more, maybe about
a year, and then when I live in the apartment, they have one the neighbors he worked for car
dealer, Ford Motor company car dealer, and he ask me “do you want to get a job?”, and I said
yeah. Because he saw I work at the gas station, you know, I do most, I just take care of mini
market, take care of tow truck, I take care, you know ,do a lot of stuff in the gas station, and he
ask me you want a job and I said yeah, I know how to do it, but I’m not good out of it, he said
VAOHP0048 21  
don’t worry I take you in, and he take me in and then I work for Ford dealer until that time until
2010.
KL: Were you saving up for anything when you were first working at Winchell Donut?
TAL: Yeah, I save up some money to buy the car, a couple hundred dollar vehicle.
KL: Was there a reason you needed the car, or did it make it easier for you?
TAL: It made it easier for you to ride around, when you don’t have a car, you go anywhere, you
have to ask people to give you a ride, and sometimes people don’t have a car. You have to buy a
car in America, and then I go buy a car, and then buy the insurance and I drive around to go to
the market, you know, go further, and I believe after a year, and then I fix up the car, you know,
that car I just bought was Camaro, I don’t know the year, but Camaro, Chevy engine, 350 engine,
a very good Camaro. I drive that car from California to Prince George in Canada, small town all
the way up near Alaska, to visit my girlfriend, and then we married, after that we married, and
we drive the same car to come back to California.
KL: How did she get to Canada?
TAL: My girlfriend she go with her family, because her family, all of them live in Canada, she
lived in refugee camp for a while, and they go to Canada before I go to the United States.
Because they have a family that live over there, and I don’t have any people so I have to stay in
the camp, wait for refugee pick up, and also because I’m in the army, so I go with the army rules,
so I came to America because I serve in the army, and that’s all.
KL: How do you feel about your decision to come to the US?
TAL: I think at that time I don’t think anything, I just want to go somewhere that is better. I can
find something to do. You know, can do something for my life. Can build up my job, can have a
house, can have, you know, family. But when I go to America, so it’s nothing, I like it. I worked.
VAOHP0048 22  
I tried to save the money to buy a car, small car, have a family, and then I buy the new house,
and then the first time we bought, after I marry, we bought a condominium, and after that we sell
the condominium and we buy the house because we have the kids. So everything seemed like it
was okay with me because I don’t know, I’m not rich, but I believe I get, I do the best I can to
support my family and I’m the kind of the people that like to work, so no matter what, either
time I got sick so bad I still work. I remember the day I came back from the hospital, and my
daughter, I cannot stand, and because I broke my leg I cannot stand up, my daughter had to hold
me for me to fix the couple of heaters because the house been getting cold after a couple of days.
After a week I stay in the hospital, so I’m the people that like to work.
KL: After you settled down in America did any of your family members come, or did your son
come to America to stay here?
TAL: No, after I settled down in America and I believe one time, a couple of times, I ask my
dad, I want to sponsor for him to come here, but he said no. He’d been in service in the air force
for so long, and he have been training in America, he lived in America before, and now he want
to spend his life, the rest of his life, in Vietnam. And because I believe the first beginning when I
left the country, it was the hard time, the people very poor, not every people, some people still
rich, some people still poor. Every country’s the same. After that, the communist they open the
door so people can go back to visit, more business booming, and that’s the reason my dad just
want to stay in the country because he’s getting old and also he had a stroke so, he know when
you’re in America, you’re sick, you’re by yourself, nobody helps you. In Vietnam when you’re
sick, the neighbor still maybe, sometime the neighbor come over and help you, or friend come
over to help you, people share each other when the time they’re getting old. They’re always have
a lot of place for old people hang around, just sit down, talk, play games, but if you, that’s what I
VAOHP0048 23  
believe my dad did not want to come to stay in America when he get old, because you will be
lonely at home, every kid, your son may go to work all day, come home in the evening to see
you for a couple of hours, and that’s it. Maybe go out with each other once in a while, that’s why
my dad didn’t want to come here, and I do sponsor for my son, but some reason the people miss,
the US embassy, they told me my son didn’t reply for the paperwork, so he cannot come here.
And I asked him, you want, I can re-sponsor for you again, but now it’s harder because now I
become handicap, the income is limited, so that’s why it is very hard to sponsor for him to come
to America, but he said no, it’s okay, I can still do a lot of stuff in Vietnam, I can make money,
and I believe he has his mom, and his mom marry again, and they break up again and have one
son, and the son died too. So she, she stay in Vietnam that’s why my son wanted to stay with her
and take care of her when she getting old.
KL: Did you ever think about going back to Vietnam and living there, or did you ever want to go
back and live there?
TAL: That’s a good question. A couple years ago, about 2005, I was thinking about going back
to Vietnam when I got sick here, but I changed my mind again, and I may go in and out Vietnam
to see my son, or my grandkids, because I have three grandkids now, my son has three sons,
three boys, so I have three grandkids. So I may, later I may sponsor for them to come here to go
to school here, but living here, I don’t know, they want to living here or live in Vietnam. Because
there’s a lot of people that love to come to America, but my son doesn’t bother him much,
because I believe he can make money over there, he can have a good job there, so of course
America you have more chance to make the money. But a lot of people come here don’t even
have a job, so that’s why the reason he stay there. I don’t know if I want to go back to Vietnam
to live there when I get old, or if I want to stay in America, I have kids in America, so I believe
VAOHP0048 24  
my decision is just some days I stay in America, sometimes I stay in Vietnam to stay with my
son for a couple of months, and my daughters in America for a couple months. I think that’s my
final decision.
KL: Did you want to, when you were thinking about going to Vietnam, was it because you
missed your family that was there or was it just; you wanted to feel more at home?
TAL: I don’t know. Some people just say I miss the country, but after 20 years, you have the
struggle with, another word I use is survival. You have to go to a lot of places to survive, to
make life a little bit better, and after 20 years, more than 20 years, and I don’t think I remember
Vietnam much, I put everything behind in the past. My life is a little bit better, because if you
keep thinking you’ll have more stress because the way I think everything from yesterday you
have to let them go, and move on with the new, and try to make your life a little better.
KL: When you were in America, did you ever think back to the war, or the days you were a
soldier?
TAL: Yeah, that’s always in your memory. Sometimes, the worst thing is that every day when
you sit down, sometimes, at night time, especially when I serve in the army at night time. In the
evening, sometime you stay in the camp right in the middle of nowhere and you look at the sky
in the evening, when they sky start turning dark and I believe everywhere is the same, and it
brings back a lot of memories, and that’s not a good memory, but you remember a lot of bad
stories. If you can make a movie, that’s a hell of a movie, the people have to go through. It’s not
like an hour movie, two hour movie, but it’s a long, long way. You can see how you survive,
how you eat when you live in the army, of course everybody get paid, but sometime you don’t
even have food to eat, sometime you have to eat, they call the canned food for a couple days, and
drinking the dirty water, when you don’t have water. So just a survivor and the time I left, when
VAOHP0048 25  
the time you survive in the war, and the time you survive when you service the war, and the time
I survive when I left the country to go to America, and the time I stay in America to make my
life a little bit change, so you don’t have to go through the depression it’s very hard, because it’s
long and very hard.
KL: Do you ever try to just push back your memories of the Vietnam War behind, or do you just,
if they come back and you remember them, it’s okay?
TAL: I always remember, you cannot put that thing behind because there’s a lot of friend, a lot
of people you go through, a lot of pictures you see it, of the war. So kind of you cannot forget it,
and sometimes you sleep and you can see the memories back, for more than 30 years now. I
don’t think anybody ever forgets it completely. Because you can see it, sometime you wake up
after the bomb drop one place, or after the rocket drop one place, you can see the body parts over
the place, children, women, civilian people, all kind of stuff, it’s hard to forget it.
KL: Does that ever affect what you do in America?
TAL: They might or might not because I’m not a doctor so I don’t know that much about that.
But I try the best I can. That’s why I learn things, when you have a problem, just close the door
and move onto the next step, so you can feel your life’s a little bit better because the memories
are always there, they don’t go away.
KL: Are there any activities you do in America that you choose to do because you sort of
remember what you used to do in Vietnam or because you want to keep the things you used to do
in Vietnam and do them here as well?
TAL: Actually, in Vietnam and here, it’s totally different jobs. I work in Vietnam, some like I
do, it’s just different job, it’s hard, it’s not that different, but kind of different place and different
ways to make a living. In Vietnam, when I was young, I born in the war, I born in the time they
VAOHP0048 26  
have a war in Vietnam, so the life was already hard, so the people have to learn how to survive,
and then when I grow up in Vietnam, you have to do everything you can to survive, to make life
better. Like you want to have a Honda motorcycle or you want to have nice clothes, you have to
work harder, same like in America, but in America, you have more chance to get a different job,
better job. But in Vietnam, you have to be work smart, and then I believe every country is the
same way. You have to work smarter a little bit to make your life a little bit better.
KL: How about the things you do on the side, just for fun?
TAL: You know when the time I was in America, I don’t do much of fun stuff. Sometime, before
sometime I ride the bicycle, I go out with friends, go do things with friends, and sometimes we
go out fishing with the friends, and usually go shooting, and make some ammunition, you know,
you just make you, just put your mind in a different kind of world so you feel better, a little bit.
And then, also, when you go shooting, so you kind of remember the time you’re in war, in
Vietnam, serving in the army. And I like to, sometime I like to collect the old guns at the time I
was in service in Vietnam. To have the time to go back a little bit, and to the time to relax your
mind, if you’re working, keep working all the time, it kind of burns out, but I don’t stay too long
with the clear out, like other people use to. Like they have to go out to fishing, they have to go
out to play golf, I do when I have time only.
KL: What kind of guns do you have from, that resemble, or like the ones you used to use in
Vietnam?
TAL: Like the M1 Garand, that’s what we used in Vietnam, and you know that’s all I have. They
have some other gun in Vietnam too, but kind of expensive and you know I don’t want to get too
much. I just get one, that’s good enough to remember the time I was in service. That gun I use it
in 1972.
VAOHP0048 27  
KL: Is that one of the first guns you were trained with when you were training to fight in the
war?
TAL: I can’t remember, but I think that’s the first gun because most people, even when I’m in
America, most people training for the army, you have to train through the M1 Garand. Because
that’s one of the older rifles in war, I believe from World War I and World War II. World War II
until the Korean War, Vietnam War, and that’s the basic training, everybody have to go through
that gun. But after that you can use carbon, carbine M1, and AR-15, some other stuff like that,
but you know. And also, I don’t want to have a lot of other guns, because bullets are kind of
expensive too, so I have to make my own bullet, usually when I service in the army you don’t
care about the bullets because you got that for free. But now you’re a civilian and you want to go
shoot, it cost you money for shooting. So I have to considering what the rifle I can get, and what
kind of bullets you can make. If you cannot make it, might as well don’t get the rifle because it
cost money.
KL: Do you do these things sort of, so as you grow older you never forget the experiences you
had in Vietnam or is it something you feel that you’d like to remember now about Vietnam?
TAL: No, I like to have the old guns, so I can remember what is beautiful about America make at
that time. When I service in the army, I know a lot about the guns, what is the soviet have, what
is the China have, what America has, what the beauty of, and what the capable of. So I like to
have some of them, but longer I can make, I can reload the ammunition, kind of to cut the cost of
the shooting. Because every time you go shooting it cost a lot, so you want to be cut the cost
down. Also it kind of brings you back to the memory, so you still know when you were just 20,
and you don’t want to get old and you know, getting loss of memory. That’s why I try to keep up
with the activities I used to do when I was young.
VAOHP0048 28  
KL: When you are doing things like this, or when you first came to America, did you experience
a lot of racism or any discrimination?
TAL: When I came to America, they have a lot of race, and discrimination, but you always can
work around it. You don’t put in, I know a lot of people put in their mind, that’s why you don’t.
Like I go to work, one of the dealership, all of them white, it was only me that was Asian, I don’t
have any problems with that, you have to work around. You got to remember this is America,
some people like that, some people like their own way, so you have to use your mind to work a
way. If you say its America’s discrimination, I don’t think it’s bad like China. I think the word
discrimination is all around the world. So a lot of people in this country, when I came here, I see
it, but people say, does it bother you? I say no, it doesn’t bother me, even when I go to work,
some people they call me chino, that means the Mexicans they call me Chinese people, they call
them chino I believe so. But with me, some people get into their heart and they get mad, but I
don’t because I think that’s just a joke. Why people don’t let them go? Next day, everybody treat
me the same, everybody joke with me, and it depends how you take it, but I see, I take it very
well. I don’t have any problem with that.
KL: Do you identify yourself as an American, a Vietnamese American, or just Vietnamese when
you’re in America?
TAL: When I come to America, I believe, I know some people told me, because like before,
people usually say you never become American if you’re not white. That’s true, or not true,
depends how you take it. But I believe I am Asian American, not Vietnamese anymore because
when the time I left the country, I try to put everything behind and the first paper work I got in
America, in that paperwork, under that document they put the state, they say stateless. That
VAOHP0048 29  
means no country. Now I understand why it is no country because I am people not belong to
Vietnam anymore.
KL: How did that make you feel when you saw the word “stateless”?
TAL: You know, I feel that’s true because when you left the country and you don’t have a
country to live. So you have to go some other country with refugee, and I know a lot of people
just go back and say I am Vietnam, of course you’re born in there, you can’t erase all the
memories there, but you got to remember when you become American citizenship, you have to
protect America. That’s what the country is all about, and because I believe there’s no place
better than America. Of course everywhere they have a problem, nothing’s perfect, but you have
to live with it.
TAL: Yes.
KL: Do you remember what it was like when you were going through the process of becoming a
citizen?
TAL: I think that’s normal process, there’s nothing hard. Of course when you become a citizen
you have to know some of the laws in the country, and also you have to remember laws no
excuse for no one. You have to understand that because before you come to citizenship in one
country, but America they open their arms and they take you in with no reason, but you know, so
I think that’s, when I become, my life become US citizen, we feel a little bit better than any other
country. Because I believe other countries don’t do that for you like in America.
KL: So when you became a citizen you felt more American?
TAL: Yeah.
VAOHP0048 30  
KL: Did that make you feel more comfortable just being here, or did it make you feel more
comfortable when you were out with others who weren’t Asian?
TAL: You know what, I feel safer, I don’t know how, like people feel when you travel out of the
United States, and when you come back to the United States, when you land in the United States,
when the aircraft lands in LAX, or wherever. Like you go to Canada, and you go back to the
United States, you feel different, you feel you’re home, not like, like I go to Vietnam, I don’t feel
like I’m home like when I came back to the United States. When I’m back to the United States, I
feel like I’m home, I feel better.
KL: So when you visit Vietnam, is it uncomfortable or do you feel like an outsider?
TAL: Yes, when I visit to Vietnam I feel uncomfortable, and like an outsider. I don’t know what
the reason, but it’s how in my mind, that’s how they work like that. And then even I travel there
only a couple weeks, and when I’m back in LAX I feel better. Especially when you see the
customs, and they tell you ‘welcome home’, you feel a little better, you feel much, much better,
and the feeling you cannot explain it. I don’t know how people feel because I know a lot of
people I feel good when I go to Vietnam, but I don’t feel good, even my wife, she don’t feel
good that way. But when we step in the soil, in the land of America, we feel totally different, we
feel happy more. We feel like we are home. Real home.
KL: Is there a reason why you feel like this is your real home, is it because you’ve settled down,
you have a house here, and you’ve worked so hard to be here?
TAL: Yeah, I don’t know, I guess so, because maybe we have a house here, we’ve lived here so
long. And now this land is our home, so it’s the only thing you can remember now is your home
is America, nowhere else. But with other people, I don’t know, I think other people still think
VAOHP0048 31  
where they’re born is their home, but I see, it’s hard to explain the feeling, I feel this is my land
and this is my home.
KL: Are there any traditions or customs you kept from Vietnam though, even though you feel
like America is your home?
TAL: Some of them we still keep some of the traditions, like you remember the dead people. I
believe Americans do have that too, but I don’t know how the culture in America, long, long
before, but that’s how in Vietnam long, long before. But even now in Vietnam they don’t
remember the old people, so I want my kids to remember the old people, the people that passed
away, the generation. So that’s all I keep from Vietnam, and you know, some the food I still keep
from Vietnam, but that’s not important I have to have the food, like a lot of Asians say I have to
eat the Asian food. Nah, with me yes, I can eat everything if I have, I can, if you ask me if you
like more Asian food or American food, I say I maybe like the hamburger better because it’s fast
and easy to make, very simple, makes life easy more.
KL: Since you’ve been in America, do you tend to be around the Vietnamese community more
often, or would you prefer to be around people who consider themselves American or non-
Asians?
TAL: When I’m in America, I don’t, with me, I don’t around a lot of Asians, I’m around with
everybody, white, black, Mexican, Indian, Philippine, you know, everybody’s the same. I’m not
around a lot of Vietnamese community, and I don’t know, maybe because when I come in I stay
with American. Most the people around me speak English, and everybody treat everybody the
same, they not see you like Asian, they not see you because you are white, or because you are
black. So I like that way better than you stay with the Asian American, one place where every
time you go anywhere you find your food, country food everything like that. With my family,
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everybody eat everything outside, treat every people the same because this is our country. You
don’t look at people different like other way.
KL: Of all your memories from when you were a child to now, would you think more positively
on your memories in Vietnam or do they tend to be not as positive as the memories you have in
America?
TAL: In America I think you have a lot of memories because I, if I say, I live in Vietnam only 20
years, maybe 22 years, but I live in America more than 30 years. I live in Vietnam maybe about
20 years or something like that, but most the time, it’s as a younger kid, so I don’t remember
much. But when I grow up starting when I was 17 I serve in the army for a while, until the
country lost, then I came to stay in America, until now. With me, I believe, America is my
country, I’m not belong to Vietnam anymore.
KL: And you’re okay with that right?
TAL: Yeah, I’m okay with that, I feel better that way because when you stay in one place for
more than 30 years now, so you know, America’s my land, and my home, and my country.
KL: Are there any other memories or stories that you’d like to share?
TAL: There’s a lot of memories, a lot of stories, but you know, you cannot sit there and talk all
about the memories because that’s very long, because when I start, I out the house at that time, I
was very young, about 15 years old. And I go to school, I go to work, because that’s the war
time, and my dad remarried again, and that’s the war time, and I have to go to school and I have
to work to help my dad a little bit. And then there’s a lot of good stories, a lot of bad stories, a lot
of stories for survival, especially when you’re just 15, 14 year old kid, you go outside, you try to
work, and people try to rip you off, and you have to fight with your job, and you go to school,
and stay at midnight to do your homework. And you have to make sure you join the army at the
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right time, otherwise you cannot choose when you’re in the service. So that’s a lot of hard word
when you be a kid, not like in America, the kids have more freedom. They still enjoy until, some
people, some kids, I see them 25, 30; they still don’t know much about survival. So when I grow
up in the wartime, I have to learn a lot of things for survival. You have to save your money, save
your food, how you can survive for a couple of months in case the town has been war or
bombed, or something like that. So you talk about the story in Vietnam that’s a long, long story.
And I don’t know how you can finish it. I remember when I was in refugee camp, one of the
communist officer told me, if you talk about the story of what you guys doing, it’s a very long,
like the ocean, you never finish.
KL: So do you have anything else about your memories in refugee camps or stories about the
refugee camps, or your trips from going all the islands in Indonesia to America that sort of stick
with you, even until today?
TAL: Yeah, when the time, all the refugee camp stick with me until today. I remember
everything from the day I left the country and the day we arrived to one the small island, they
called the Natuna Island, how we lived, how we found food there. It’s very amazing. One of the
people from other country came to another country and survival, and I don’t even have money in
my pocket, not even a dollar. And I don’t know how I can survive that, I can even find food for
48 people, 48 people including me in the one island. I go out, I remember that day, I go out to
talk with local people to get some fish, get some rice, take it to one of the barrack where we live,
and then we cook with each other, and then move to another one. So I have to, I always have to
work, I have to find the way how to invent people to help you, to drive you, to share everything
with you, until today that is amazing. Sometimes I remember, I sit down and remember how I
can do it, but I did it anyways.
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