The Royal African Society

A Recent Visit to Central AfricaAuthor(s): Richard WoodSource: African Affairs, Vol. 57, No. 226 (Jan., 1958), pp. 20-28Published by: Oxford University Press on behalf of The Royal African SocietyStable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/719063 .

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20 A Recent Visit to Central Africa By MR. RICHARD WOOD

Mr. Wood, the Conservative Member of Parliamgnt who led a parliamary delegation which recentZy visited CentraS Africa, gave the following impressions of thc visit a a joont meetinB Of the Royal African Society and the Royal Empire Socidy, on November 7, 1957. Mr. James CaUaghan, M.P., a Labot4r Party mcmber of the delegation, presided.

UAVING TRIED for the months of August and September to exercise 11 a cert degree of authority over my chailman this afternoon, I now find that I am completely in his hands and that if I go off the rails and stray into paths of irrelevancy he will no doubt quickly call me to order. I hope he will not stop me now, but I am very disappointed in him. We thought that from our political point of view this tour would be extremely helpful to him and as leader of the delegation I always saw that he was well chaperoned by a couple of Conservatives. We thought that this would do him a great deal of good. I am sorry, however, to see that as soon as he returns he makes a speech of the kind that he made yesterday in the House of Commons, and he is just as reactionary and obstinate, having learnt nothing from us. In short, he is just as impolite to the Government as he was before ! Before we left for Central Africa, we were asked to write a report by the four branches of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association in Central Africa who were our hosts. I found, and I think my colleagues found, that the prospect of ting a report is rather like the prospect of death: it concen- trates the mind wonderfully. My own hope has been that what happens after we produce our report will be as peaceful and delightful as what some of us hope will follow death. A wise man pointed out some time ago that there were only two reports which had any value at all. The first was the solid and considered judgment of someone who has lived for 30, 40 or 50 years in a certain countIy about which he is speaking, and the second is the impressions of those who have been there for a few weeks, merely as an impression. Our report will naturally be of the latter kind. I should be the first to say that it would obviously be infinitely less valuable than the first type, the solid judgment of some- body who had been there for a very long time. I am, however, encouraged by the number of people who ask us, " What are your impressions of the Federation ? " This at least suggests that the impressions that might be forthcoming may be of some interest and value. I remember that the approach to wisdom is the growing realisation of how little one knows. Therefore, we were all a little encouraged to find that whereas after ten days or a fortnight in the Federation we thought that we knew quite a lot, after three weeks we thought that we knew rather less and

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21 A RECENT VISIT TO CEM PRICA

at the end of a month we were in greater doubt than evwer about what were the proper answers to the many problems of the Federation. That is the c and the longer that one stays anywhere, the less certain one becomes of beyning to know the answer to any of these difficult problems that are posed.

I should like to put on record our immense gratitude to all our hosts for their great generosity to us during the month that we spent in the Federation. What particularly impressed us all was their readirless to arrange for us to see anything or anyone whom we expressed a desire to see. Nothing was kept from us. We had only to ask to see anyone or axlything for our unsh to be readily granted. Therefore, although we were there for only a very short time, we caIs at least claim the benefit of the expenence and judgment of men and women who have lived a very long time in the Bederation.

Anyone who visits a young and developing countiy knows how very stimulating an experience it is. I found that my rather rusty mental machin ery was beginning to move down unfamiliar avenues, not only economics not only social or political, but the rather less familiar avenues of geographyf ethnology, anthropology, and so on. At first sight at least, to mthe economic mental avenue seems the most inviting, not only because the econ- omic achievements of the Federation are the most lrisible and most striking and, therefore, perhaps the easiest to appreciate, but also because so much other development in the Federation- education, health, social relations alld politi{lepends directly upon the economic progress which is ach:ieved.

We were all, without any exception, economically astounded both by the achievements which have already been secured and by the ense potent3a1 and the immense possibilities which remain in the future. When we saw that great hydrowlectnc scheme on the Zambesi at Kariba, we felt that tins scheme, when it soon comes into operation, will give a new dyrlamism to the already towering economic development of the Federation.

To my mind, Kariba and all that is going on there, and this harnessrng of the great waters of the Zambesi, expresses the whole spirit of the Federation, where the seemingly impossible is being attempted, where diffictllties and dgers seem to exist only to be overcome, where large new towns, a hospital and schools are all built in the middle of nowhere and where I understand, there is to be ingenious use of the by-products of the Kariba Dam, one of the by-products being a man-made lake 175 miles lollg and another of the by-products bemg the houses in which the present workers at Kariba live. I understand that the vast possibilities of tourism have not been neglected by those who are planning for the future.

Industrial revolutions such as are going on in the Federation always bring svith them problems, and they are problems which are seldom satisfactorily solved. Economic development in every case makes possible not only the expansion of education, not only the provision of meder medical facilities, but also the building of more and more houses The supply of all these things, however-education, health services, housing very seldom keeps pace with the imTnense and quickly growing demand. That is one of the things we found

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AFRICAN AiBAIRS

the Federation as in all other rapidly expandmg industrial colLutnes. \\re found that vast rsew demands are being eJreated in Afnca It will be

dl?ficult to satisfy them, bllt if t}ey are not satisEed? it Iooks as though they w:31 leaxl to frustratlon and unvest. My OWll view wa that the purely economic denanxls are llkely to be satisfied. Sllch thngs as the growitlg market for breadJ for shoes to NearJ for wireless sets and bicyeles and things of that kmd, will no doubt be fully attended to. I was pressed by the efforts which Governments md murlicipalitles have made to build more and more ho<}sess particularly in their very laudable attexnpt to try tc) provide fOF indstw a s1:able rather than a migrant labour force.

I wxs impre<-,ed by the success that b,fohth Governments asld the. ulLisSions have had in expanding educational d melical services. We s?as a number o? flne new schools arld hospitals. YVe wereX deeply interested to have the c$ance one evening to visit the new md vog 1luiversity college near zMisbury. We saw st me technical schcrols alld we visited one or two of the lMmenSely i.nlpOliAlt teactler-traiwrinc coHeges.

Almost ever^here we found C1e s}Xortage of three thlrlgso These are the matters >hich seem to me to be hainpering the. educational developulent i} this part of Afuca: the shortage of men, wrkwiG]l} I quckly hasten to adds includes women; the shortage- of morleyJ and the shoKage of bllildirlgs.

Those who are responsible for the educational programme seemed eve where tc) be alive to the needs for these three things, which are not peclaliar to Africa. They seemed to be alive to themS but powerless to deal witb. the:m in an entirely adeqllafte WEYJ particularly on fho COppEr F7>eltv where about hif of al1 the African children there are receiviIlg 1lo EdlICRtIC)E &t .

I say teat--il; is easr to come bacll fl-om AEica aild sy it-m no Spirlt of criticism because I am quite conscious that these Ijmiting factors oX nnen,

nzoney arld bulldings are not easily overcouler Wt.ts-s tEler b0St 7< itl ethe world -we have had our own experierlce in this countrzr-theIe ib a limit to the rate of {)supansion of any social serlrice or any welfare state.

A;1 xJlSitors to Africa are naturally interested ill the pattern of relation ships between the races and I ana X;e11 aware that the comments which they make when they return. from a arisit to Africa are ofte:n singularly uilhelpfule It is extreme2y difflcult to judge this matter frorrX one obserlJation poixlt and froln one moment in time. None of U5 had ever been t.o Central Africa before. We all hrpe to go again, bllt that is not qllite the point. We have only been there thix year, ill l957. Therefore} we had to take from other people what the di?felence is between 1957 and 1952, and 19472 and so on back through the years. 13ut by the unanimity d the emphasis swhica was put upon the testirnony pven to us by people of all kinds of c}pinion wrt were all corxuxaced of the rapid advance in 301;:ial relations that has takexl place withirl the last fiYR or ten years. We have no doubt that that vas so, because we were told it whereser we wenLt.

Another impresslon that rtnack us most forcibly was aIl imprestion, amd a very pleasant (Jne indeed, Qf the geat breadth of liber opinion existlng among the European pr) ?ulat;on in the Federation,, especially in Southern

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.A ECENT VISIT TO CENT>.E PRICA

Rhodesia, where we found that many Eurrepeals sincerely disliked discrim mation agst Africans or Asians merely because of the colour of their SEx1S.

The partnership which we all talk a great deal about must mean tbat the social progress of the advanced African or Asian is not held back by this irrelevant consideration of colour.

Frankly,, what worries llS pex-haps more thaxl most things tbat we sas was the paucity of contact between the races except on the basis of empleye

arld worker. I was interested to YiSit inter-racial club md we all 11au

conversations uith representatives of the inter-racial societses. It seemed t me and to a number of us that the Chuieh, which has a common irltereet and a comnwon goal far more powerful than the differences that Tnay be created by colour, would seem to set an. exctluple of social contact that I should like to see followed much mole widely throughent the Federation.

We aX felt t}xat there wele Iriantr possibllities of links bei:rwg ?orged else where. This was not our idea. Nothing that I am sapg this aftemoon was our idea. It was oftexl suggested to us by Elaropeans alld oth.er thlllgs were suggested by Afncaxls. We were leff in no doubt that there ssere a large number of people who wvold like to see a growng social contact where there was a common interest between Europeans, Aslass and AfTibans.

This common interest is obviously cstremely important? becallse one CaTl-

not get spontaneou.s social contact ill this colmtry, m Afrca o1 ywhere? else in the world vlniess there is some coxnxnon lnterest to hold it together. We were greatly impressed when +^re went to two schools in Lusaka, in Northern Rhodesia, one a Europem secolldary school and the other an Afac secondazy school. We haLd the opportunity at both these s(>rhOolS (f>JA

meet the sisth ?onns. We had an hourls meetillg with each of the sisti brsns and after I made a short speech Mr. Callaghan and others SlstWt4t.d

questiorls At the Afric secotldary school we were asked about devaluatim? about the House of LoTds, about the Bar in E:ngland, about the hydroge bomb and iE3ritish policor in the Middle East. The same sort of learel of gues tions obtaisoed at the Reie School. We worldered whether there was not; a

very fruitful opportity of contact between sixth forms such as thes?ev We should like to have seen greater contact between them.

I later spent four m(7re days in Northem Rhodesia and I visited a seconderwr school and talked to boys several forms beneath the sixth ?orm. I was verz7 surprised to be asked the question: " When Str Anthony Eden resiFed, we expected Mr. Psutler to be Prime Minister NChy did he not >.Xecome Pnnse M;rlister e 3 T fod hat sery di?ficult to aIlswero It was fro^n scomebody fol1r forms below the sixth fOrm !

We have fod, therefore, that there is neglible acadenlic urltact between boys of the same standard of intelligence axld we tEnl tilat possibly there are opporturlities of extending it. There migh1; be possibilities of extending it in the re-lm of sport. I gather that sport presents certairl difficulties, but I myself saw Afncans d Europeans playlng botbaS to- gether in the Army and I wonder whether it would not be pssitele to de^relop that more widely

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24 AFRICAN AFFAIRS

Politically5 I was less happy. I think we were all rather less happy about the country's economic future and even about its social future. It is notonously difficult to assess African opinion. I do not want to leave the impression that we made up our minds what Africans thought in Afnca, Wcause you all know a great deal better than I that I should be sticking my neck out if I attempted that. We were well aware when we were in the Federa- tion that the vely small proportion of Africalls we met might have been or might not have been representatilre of the immense weight of Africans bellind them. We really do not find it easy to judge. Therefore, I think it would perhaps be wisest if for a few moments I confine myself both to facts and to negatives.

The negative is that we did not find, either in Nyasaland or in Northern Rhodesia, any Africans who were in y way enthusiastic about the Federal experent and we found very few indeed who were allxious, if they could choose otherunse, to give it a tnaL In Southern Rllodesia, the attitude of the Afncans seemed to be considerably less hostile.

But as far as the economic benefits of Federation were concerned-of which all seventof us were connnced and of which we tried to coIlvince the Afncans with whom we talked in the Northem Tetories they were rejected out of hand as being a bnbe produced by the Federal authonties in order to sell this idea of Federation. The Nyasaland chiefs whom we met described this vety graphically by sapng that when a man mes a wife, he first of all treats her very well and then, later on, she gets what is coming to her. That is the way they looked upon the economic benefit of Federation in Nyasaland.

But as far as the political scene is concerned, which is, of course, largely bound up with. the economic, we found that in the Northern Temtories there seemed to be two main reasons for the rooted African objection to the idea of Federation. Tb.e first was the fear, which as far as we could see was entirely unjustified, that the Europeans would come along and take their ld. That is mainly, I suppose, an econoc fear, but the political fear was the frustration that they seemed to feel that the introduction of the Federal expenment was going to reslllt in the postponement of the expansion of Afncan influence in the running or the conduct of affairs in Nyasaland and Northem Rhodesia. That was the impression that we were Fven time and time again of the main political objection among the AfricaIls to Federation.

After we had taLked to Afncans in the Northern TeITitories, we found, naturallyr a great many Europeans who were well aware of this hostility. We fourld that some were snnous about it. Others tended to make light of it. Whatever the causes of this discontent and they are too long to expand now -I regarded it then and I think I shall always regard it as a cancer in the body of the Federation; aIld if it is not removed) the Federation will proceed at a veiy mucb. slc)wer pace than we should like to see it proceed in the future. I am convinced that if the Federation is to become a great nation, it must not only be economically powerful, as it looks like being aIld as it is progressively becoming at the moment, but it must also be politically eontent.

A great deal will depend oll what happens during the next few years. We

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25 A BECENT VISIT TO CENT MRICA

fd among Europeans a great deal of endence both of honest intentions md good faith about the progress of the Federation and the advancement of Africans, and so on; but the Africans whom we meet seemed, to put it very mildly indeed, unconvinced. They seemed to be both frightened and frus- trated. VVhether or not their fears or frustrations are justified, it is extremely difficult-probably impossiblc for us in a very short te to judge. We can only suggest to you, having retutned from Africa, that these fears and frustra- tions do exist; and fear alld fmstration are not a very good foundation for a great experunent like the Federation of Rhodesia aIld Nyasaland.

I do not want to end urithout mentioning one matter which is extremely portant and which, unfortunately, led to certain difficulties of misunder- stax}ding, both while we were in the Federation andJ I understand, since we came home: that is, the question of the future dominion status of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

When we were in Afnca, we were well aware that this matter of increased or advanced status would be one of the matters which was considered by the Conference of the five Governmentthe three territorial Governments, the Federal Golrernment and the British Government-- which is to be held in 1960. VVhat we did find when we were in the Federation was the great fear which seems to have been suggested by the talk that has been going on about dominion status among the Afncaxls, who are very womed indeed-this is a pure statement of factbout the whole matter.

When we were in the Federation, we were pressed for our views, and we based the answer we gave on th.e conditions which, in our opinion, must exist for this advance in constitational status taking place. In doing so, we drew attention to the Preamble to the Federal Constitution, which contains, as you all hlow, certain pledges entered into by aSl the Governments concerned. Vffien we were asked, we said that we could not see that the necessary expression of view-that the territories would be ready to surrender the separate govemments that the inhabitants of the temtories at present enjoy--had yet been obtained; and we said that unless it were obtained, we could not see that the Government of the United Kingdom could possibly disregard this solemn pledge which they had given. That was all that we said.

Having said that, I should like to make it quite clear that no Government in this country-T hope I can speak for my Chairman as well would ever be anxious to deny constitutional advance in any part of the CommonweSth, and certainly no one would be more delighted than I when the expression to which the Preamble refers is given willingly by th.e peoples of the Federa- tion.

I have felt it-I have not yet expressed it because I left it to the end- a great honour to be asked to address this Society, the reputation of which has gone far and wide. W}}en we were in Afnca-and this is why I am so delighted to have the chance of talking about itX I sincerely felt that we were visiting one of the most important parts of the world. I do not think that that is any exaggeration.

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26 AFRICAN ABEKRS

I t}link that the Federal expeent is not only importallt to the Federa- tion itself; it is not only immensely importmt to the rest of Afnca, but I believe that it is important to us in Bntain and to the whole future of the

free world, because if this expenment really succeeds it will be immense

help to us; but if it fails, we shall find immense difficulties in the future.

.

IJlscussion MR. CALLAGHAN expressed the thanks of the meeting to Mr. Wood for his most comprehensive survey of the problem given in a very short time. MISS LESLEY GREEN said that one thing whieh impressed her on a two monthss vwisit this year to Northern and Southerrl Rhodesia was that a tremendous amount of propagda was being put out to whieh the Afrieans were obviously extremely suseept- ible. Equally, it was obvious that they were not in a position to undersind it or to weigh it up. This propaganda was elearly having a tremendous effeet on their attitud e to Federation. It vvas absolutely impossible to state at any stage that African opinion must be won over to something, because the very faet that Britain was holding up development until Afriean opinion was won over was, to the African mind a elear indieation of laek of eonfidence in their own judgment and in their leadership or lac:k of it, and this would have its own effeet. SIR CTIARLES PONSONBY said that everybody was working for a ehange of heart from the Afrieans, who, perhaps,, had not quite understood the whole position. Would this ehange of heart eome over the next ten or fifteen years, not oIlly with the increase of education, but also with the creation of what was ealled a xniddle eli.e. people who owned their own bllsinesses axld who developed their own agriculture, and who were gradually becoming ecorlomically conscious ? The Hon. RICHARD WOOD replied that it was suggested by a number of the people whotn the delegation had met that the development of the middle class, which naturally had not yet proceeded very far, would play an immensely important part in the future development. A chax}ge of heart was needed before this great experiment was really accepted.

Members of the delegation tended perhaps to harre different views about the effect that the growth of the new Afncan middle class would have on the independence which was at present so important to be exercised among Africans. The great difficulty, of course was to try to encourage what one might call the moderate African, because at the moment it was extremely difficult for anyone who did nc)t hold extremist views to make himself heard or, if he did make himself heard, to go on making himself heard, because something perhaps happened to him. It might be that the growth of the middle class, which the delegation had seen begin- niIlg and which would no doubt gain in momentum, would probably help to produce a more independent body of Africans who would be less frightened of expressing their opinion and, therefore, would gTadually take with them a growialg body of opinion which, oIle hoped, would have the effect of producing the change of heart to which everybody looked forward. MR. CALLAGHAN added that it was lrery much a matter of speculation. His own feeling about middle classes on the whole was that whilst they gave an element of stability, they did not necessanly give an element of leadership. It was at least possible that when there was a middle class which had somethiIlg to loswhich had a stake in the country in the form of a shop, a house or whatever it might be it might, whilst wantmg stabiIity, row in with the group wvhich it thought would win. Therefore, because the middle c}ass tended to be a little frightened, it would not necessarily go with the group with which others might like to see it go. It was, however, very much a matter of speculation. A MEMBER asked whether the delegation noticed any reactiolls to the passing of the Vnstitutional Amendment Bill and the objections raised to it by the AfricaD Affairs Board. The Hon. RICHARV WC)OD replied that it was a complicated matter and one which it had been necessary to take in very gradual lessons. The delegation had taken lesson

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27 A iRECENT VISIT TO CENT MECA

one in the first week of the visit to Africa and finally re;whed lesson four at the end. The Constitution Amendment Bill had been " reserved " by the African Affairs Board, a standing committee of the Assembly set up as a safeguard against measures that were differential and discriminatory against Africans. EIaving been reserved, the Bill then had to come to Westminster; and having been presented by the Secretary of State to the House of Commons, it would lie upon the Table for 4o days until it became law.

The African Affairs Board, it was understood, had raised two main groasads of objec- tioIl. The first was that the increase in the size of the new EiederaI Assembly would .mean that the majority or the minority of Africans were smaller than formerly- but this generally happened when the proportions of both sides werd mcreased equally. The majority was found to increase iIl an enlarged Chamber.

The second objection was that the method of electing the new Africans to the enlarged Assembly was different, and it had been suggested that it was impossible X di with the Constitution Amendment Bill and the new franchise proposals for the Federal Assembly separately. It had been suggested that the new Africans who were to be elected in the Federal Assembly would not be electedw as the other Afacs were, maialy by Africans but would be elected by a predonance of Europeans. It was, therefore forcibly suggested to the delegation that the new African rnerabers would b<ome stoog?s and would not represent the Africans at all. These were the issues which had to be decided.

The Government would lay the Constitutiotl Amendment Bill and then the 4oZay penod wollld begin, after which the Constitution Amendment Bill would become law if it was not objected to in the meantime. lf it was objected to atld there was a debate sn the House of Commons,, it would have to be decided in the nornaal method.

A MEMBER said that by a recent answer in the House of Commons, the Secretary of State had shown that he did not regard the issue as differential and was not prepared to treat it as such, and was prepared to go ahead.

The Hon. RICHARD WOOD, who agreed that that was so, sasd that he had expressed no view himself. He had merely outlined the objection of the African Affairs Bc)ard. No doubt the point of view of the Government urould be further explained in the weeks to come. This was the constitutional position at the present time.

A MEMBER asked whether the delegation regarded the lack of opportunity for emotional excitement and gratification among Afrlcans as a source of their disaf?<tion concerning Federation. Tribal life having been brought nto a decline by British reforms and civilising influences, many of the outlets for emotional gratification for colour excitement aIld drama, had been taken away. In their place there zmust be some so:rt of substitute, and this had become political resentmeIlt.

Could not the problem be :met, possibly in the first instatlce, in the smaller llnits say, in estates and businesses led by Europeans- where opportunities for festival music, drama and that kind of thing could be created in an itnaginative way thlls acting as a lsind of lightning conductor for the g?oWi21g emotional resentment that was bubbling up because the African felt frustrated in his o>n emotioslal nature ?

The Hon. RICHARD WOOD replied that there was not much that he could add by way of answer. He agreed with what had been said. The deprivation of all these things which had existed when happy tribal life went on had led perhaps, in present e:ircum- stances, to the surplus energy going out in the most o'nvious direction-pofitiG^s ag-iNtion Tt was difficuli to say how far this could be attIibuted to Federatioll stself. Olle would :hesitate to give the full arewera but answers were needed. The ar>Ywer suggested in the question was probably one of many answers which might be srery helo?ul.

A LADY MEMBER asked whether the delegation had formed any definite views about the work of the Capricorn African Society and whether s-ts idluence was growving in the Federation, possibly vvith the idea of providing leaders.

The Hon. RICHARD WOOD replied that he Ioever felt it very easy to a}swer questior about the Capricorn African Society. \0Then taiking to people in C.entral Abiv about the influence of the Capricorn African Society he was, however, .sutprised to find thU its influence was not greater. Members of the delegation had later met representatives of the Society, towards a number of whose ideas thezr should all be velw sympathetic

He wondered whether one of the reasow}s why the iIlfluence of the Society did not sem to be greater was because the Capricore idea seerxsed to be a rather difficult one to get 3hold of. Having read Capricorn publlcationsJ that might well be the reason for the impression-and it was only an impressionthat the influence of the Society in Africt was much less thaxl one had imagined

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28 AFRICAN AFFAIRS

A, LADY MEMBER asked whether Mr. Wood shared the views of Mr. Callaghan, as expressed recently in the Press, that there were no technical facilities or trade SChoOl5 in the Federation through which Africans could acquire skills.

MR. CALLAGHAN pointed out that what he had said was that there was no way in which the African could acquire the necessary skills. His remarks were related particu- larly to the question of apprentices in Afnca, where, in his view, the European trade unionists were behaving in a singularly obscurantist way, and he had told them so when he was there.

There was the Hodgson Technical Training School, which had twenty tiny satellites surrounding it. Its work was impressive. The nearest approach to it in England was the old Ministry of I,abour training centres that were built up after the war, but, as anybody who knew anything about it would realise, it had nothing to do with an apprenticeship system. Indeed, the Hodgson Technical School itself was turning out only I00 craftsmen a year. The students in the satellites were of nothing like the same standard as those I00.

It was completely inadequate that a great industrial base such as was being built up in Afnca should be dependent upon I00 boys a year being turned out of something that vra a technical training school, plus European immigrants. If this was not virtually nil, it was difficult to know what was. There was no apprenticeship and there were virtually no other training facilities.

The Hon. RICHARD WOOD remarked that with that important modification of the views as reported by Mr. Callaghan, he could not find himself in disagreement. VVhen discussmg the question at great length earlier in the day, Mr. Callaghan had expressed substantially the same opinion.

SIR GILBERT RENNIE pointed out that a committee was examining the question of trade testing.

MR. CALLAGHAN replied that the industrial future of Rhodesia would depend largely on the committee's recommendations and their acceptance by the trade unionists tbere.

A MEMBER suggested that the use of the word " experiment " was an unfortunate description of something which involved the lives of about 7+ million people. How could it be viewed as an experiment when human life was at stake ?

The Hon. RICHARD WOOV regretted that his choice of words was offensive, but all life was axl experiment. The word " experiment " was not used in any derogatory manner. An experiment was something that people tried, and this described both the Federal experiment and the human experiment of living.

A MEMBER deplored the repeated utterances, in the Press and elsewhere, which contained the implication that African advancemetIt was perniitted only grudgingly by the Europeans. Perhaps the Lecturer might like the opportunity to say what he had seen in the Copper Belt, on estates such as those of the Imperial Tobacco Company where there was, in fact, an almost fanatical devotion to the welfare of the African and tremendously hard work was done.

The Hon. RICHARD WOOI) replied that that was very true indeed. He had spent all to short a time in the Copper Belt, but he had seen that, subject to the limitations of which he had spoken in matters such as education, there was great solicitude for the welfare of the employees on the private estates of the Imperial Tobacco Company and elsewhere. He certainly did not wish to leave the impression that he was in any way sritical of the care taken by employers for the welfare of people in their employ or in their charge.

A MEMBER aslsed Mr. Callaghan not to close the meeting without saying at least a few words of his own impressions. Was he correctly reported as having said that if he was zo years younger, Southern Rhodesia would be the country he would choose ?

MR. CALLAGHAN replied that that was not an inaccurate summarv of what he had said. The whole delegation found Rhodesia to be a most exciting territory. He felt exhilarated the whole time he was there, far better than ever in London. In contrast to the built-up condition of England, tile difference in the society out there would appeal to any adventurous young man.

If he were to go there himself, however, he would feel that in additicyn to earning his own living, he would have to throw himself heart and soul into the job of getting the racial relations right, for this was the key to a successful and stable experiment. If ouly the racial relations could be got right, there was nothing at all to stand in the way Qf the Rhodesias in taking the lead in industrial Africa and, indeed, outpacing SoutE Africa. This could very well be the ease over the next tu enty or thirty years.

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