Cancer’s Ketogenic Kryptonite with Patricia Daly -...

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Transcript – Cancer’s Ketogenic Kryptonite with Patricia Daly - #339

Bulletproof Radio Patricia Daly #339

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Morethan2500companiesworldwidehireGAsgraduateswith99%ofgraduateswhoparticipateinGA’scareerserviceslendinganewroleintheirfieldwithin6monthsofstartingtheirjobsearch.Takecontrolofyourtalentandcareernow.Findoutmoreatga.co/bulletthat’sga.co/bullet.Enterthepromocodebullettosaveonyourfirstclassworkshoporevent.That’sga.co/bulletcodewordbullet.

Speaker1: BulletproofRadioastationofhighperformance.

Dave: You’relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today’scoolfactofthedayisthatin1931theNobelPrizewasawardedtoDr.OttoWarburgfordiscoveringthatcancercellshaveadifferentenergymetabolismthannormalcellsinyourbodyandthattumorsfeedonsugars.Inmorerecentyearsresearchersfiguredoutthatcancercellsnotonlyfeedoffglucoseandfructose,theyalsousefructosetodivideandmultiply.It’soneofthereasonsthataketogenicdietcanbeeffectiveagainstcancerandwe’velearnednowthattumorcellscan’tuseketonesbecausetheyjustcan’tuseoxygenthatwaywhichisveryinteresting.

Beforeyougoontoday’sshow,ifyou’rearegularlistenerofBulletproofRadioyou’veheardmesharethetop10listofbiohacks.Let’stalkaboutnumber9funhacksfortheBulletproofmind.Itmaysoundweirdbuthangingupsidedownisagreatwaytohackyourbrain.Regularlyinvertingtrainsyourbraincapillariesmakingthemstronger,morecapableofbringingoxygentoyourbrain.It’saprettystraightforwardthing.Moreoxygentothebrainmeansbetterperformanceforyou.

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Rememberyoucanonlygettheteeterwithbonusaccessoriesandafreepairofgravitybootsbygoingtogetteeter.com/Bulletproof.That’sGoing-E-T-T-E-E-T-E-R.com/Bulletproof.Checkitout.

Ifyouhaven’thadachancetocheckoutthenewBulletproofcollagenbarsitstime.We’vegotabitterchocolateandvanillamaxandthesethingshave11gramsofproteinandthisisproteinthatdoesn’thavetheinflammatoryaminoacidsthatyouprobablygettoomuchof.CollagenisabuildingblockforjointsandskinbuttheyalsohaveBrainOctaneinthemandonly2gramsofcarbsthatcomefromcashews.Whatyouendupgettingissomethingthathelpsyoustayinketosisandgetinketosisandactuallyraisesketonesmorethantheyshould.Ittastesamazinganditturnsoffhungerforcrazyamountsoftime.

Ifyouhaven’thadachancetotrythenewBulletproofCollagenBars,I’mtellingyou,youwillnever,neverwanttoeatanotherkindofbaragainbecausetheyturnofffoodcravings.TheyturnoffhungerinawayI’veneverexperienced.Ittook2½yearstoformulatethesebecausecollagenisaweirdmaterial.You’lllovethem.YoucangetthemonBulletproof.com.

Nowtoday’sguestisPatriciaDaly.She’sacertifiednutritionist/therapistandanauthorbasedinDublin,Ireland.She’sworkedwithcancerpatientsaroundtheworldusingamixoftraditionalandcomplimentarymethods,isamemberoftheBritishSocietyforIntegrativeOncologyandhadcancerherself.Shehackedherowncancer.Shehadeyecancerandgotridofit.Shedidthiswiththepowerofketonesandafewothertricks.Patricia,welcometotheshow.

Patricia: HiDave,thanksamillionforhavingme.

Dave: It’smypleasurebecauseyou’vedonesomethinginteresting.It’sonethingtosay“I’macancerresearcher.”There’slotsofpeopledoingresearchoncancer.InfactsometimesIwonderlike“Whyhavewenotsolvedthisproblemyet?”There’ssomanypeopleworkingonitbutatleastwe’realllikerunningincirclesandthingslikethattoraisemoneyforawarenessofcancermaybe.Who’sgoingtodosomethingaboutitandthere’snothinglikehavingcancertomotivateyoutodothings.It’sjustsimilarforme.Likehavingobesityandrealizingrecommendationssimplydon’tworkandthendoingsomethingaboutit.IwasreallyintriguedbyyourstorythereandIwantedtogetachancetotalkaboutwithyou.Tellmeaboutwhathappened.Howdidyoubecomeacancerhackerhere?

Patricia: AsyousaidbasicallyItriedtheconventionalrouteandthenwhenthisdidn’treallyhavethedesiredresultsthat’swhenIstartedtohackthecancerexactly.Iwasdiagnosedwithmalignantmelanomaintheeyeattheageof28.That’sexactly8yearsagonow.Initiallyreallydidn’tmuchhaveanideaofwhatIactuallywasgettingmyselfinto.Thetreatmentwasveryrough.Ihadaradioactiveplaquestickedtotheeyefor4days.Initiallyitworkedreallywell.ThetumorshrankfairlyquicklybutthenIhadarelapseabout20monthslater.ThetumorwithinthespaceofafewmonthsitjustgrewsoaggressivelythatIhadtohavesurgeryagain.

ThistimeIhadthenprotonbeamtherapy,anotherformofradiotherapybutmuchmoreaggressiveandthatwasin2010.Sofarsogood.ObviouslyIhadalotofsideeffects,itisprolongedtreatmentandthetumorhadmovedsoclosetotheopticnervesthattheyhadtoradiatetheopticnerve.Theysaid,“It’sprettymuchguaranteed”that’swhattheytoldme


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“expecttoloseyourvisionwithin12to18months.”Thenfastforwardto18monthslater,Ihadnearlylostmyvisionbutnotonlythattherewasalotgoingonintheeye.Ihadedema.Ihadexcessiveangiogenesis.Thegrowthoflotsofbloodvessels.Ihadcataract.Ihadonsetofglaucoma.Depressionintheeyewasrising.

Myconsultantsaid,“Weneedtodosomething.Thereare2options.WecantryAvastininjections.”Avastinisanangiogenesisinhibitorstraightintotheeyeorthenifthat’snotworkingdownthelineyouhavetolookintogettingtheeyeremoved.Whenyou’reveryyoung…Ihad2veryyoungkidsatthetime.Mysonwas8monthsandmylittlegirlwas2½andbeingfacedwithadecisionlikethatontopofobviouslyallthechaosthatyoungchildrenbringitwasn’teasybutinawayprobablyitsavedmeaswell.ThatIreallystartedtoresearch.Ihadstartedlookingintotheketogenicdietin2011alreadyjusttosetmyoptionsandmyconsultantsaying“Justdon’tdoanythingradical.”

Dave: Havesomesugar.Don’tdoanythingradical.

Patricia: TomakethatveryclearIhadareallycleanwhatweinmainstreammedicinelookatasagooddiet.Istartedstudyingnutritionaltherapyamonthafterfinishingradiotherapyin2008.Ihadsomeideabutobviouslythewholenotionofketogenicsthat’sjustnottaughtincollege.It’sstartingtobetaughtbutatthetimeforgetaboutthat.Ididtheusual.Lotsofjuicing,wholegrains,loadsofvegetables.MeatIprettymuchditchedalittlebitofoilyfish.Justtheusual.Ididn’thaveanyprocessedfoods.Ididn’thaveanytreatsassuchthatwould…cakeandbiscuitsandstuff.Itwasreallydecentdiet.

In2011IstartedresearchingandbeingfromSwitzerlandIturnedtoalotoftheGermanresearchwhichwasverymuchattheforefrontatthetime.JohannesCoy,hecameontheplanaswell.AtthetimeTomSeyfriedandDominicD’Agostinotheyweren’taspresentonline.ItwasmainlytheGermanresearchandthenIjustgaveitago.Myconsultantssaidaswell“Offyougo.Tryyourradicalthing.”Wekeepaneyeontheeyeliterally.Ihadtogoinformonitoring.

Ithinkit’sfascinatingwitheyetumorsandpeoplejustlookatme“wowyou’reaweirdo.”Ifindit’sfascinatingbecauseyoucanactuallywatchthetumor.Ithinkit’stheonlytypeofcancer,oneoftheonlyoneswhereyoucanactuallylookintoandsee,“Wowwhat’sgoingon?”Literallyitwasprobably4or5weeksafterIstartedIwentbackinandmyconsultantsatdown.Helookedintotheeyeandhesaid,“Wowitlookslikethecalmafterabigstorm.Whatareyoudoing?”Reallyhesaidit’salmostsimilarineffecttoAvastin.Reallyreducinginflammationandangiogenesisandallofthat.Thatwasit.

Ididn’tdoitperfectlyatthebeginning.Iwasstrugglingbecausetherehardlyanyrecipes.TheonesIhadwereverymuchdairybased,nutbasedanditwasn’tanythingliketheketogenicdietthatIfollownow.Istartedwithabout60gramsofnetcarbsaday.Ijustbasicallysplit20gramswitheachmainmealandthatwasprettymuchwhatIwasdoingbutitstillworks.Eventhoughitwasn’ttheradicalketogenicdietwhichIfindveryinterestinginhindsightnowwithwhatIknow.

Ihadanextraoculartumoraswellthatwasforgottenaboutandthatcompletely…itdidn’t


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respondatalltoradiotherapy.Itjuststayedthesamesize.IhadaCTscanlastyearbecauseitwasforgottentobemonitoredandit’scompletelygone.Itjustdisappeared.ThatwasoutsidetheeyessoIdon’tknowifitsclassifiedasaneyetumororabraintumor.Notsure.Sorare.

Dave: About5yearsagoIhadbreakfastwithaguywhosworemetosecrecybuthe’sCEOofaverysizeablecompany.He’sbeendiagnosedwithinoperablepancreaticcancer.ThisiswhatkilledSteveJobs.Thisguyisdefinitelyabiohackerbecausethedayofthediagnosishe’slike“I’mgoinginketosislikeallthewayketosis.”Ittookhimabout6monthstoshrinkhistumoruntilitbecameoperable.Henevertoldanyone.Henevertoldhisfamily.Hebasicallywentintothehospitalafteritwasoperable,stayedinketosistheentiretime.Haditoperatedonandketosisspeedsrecovery.Hewasbasicallybackuponhisfeetinafewdaysandkeptdoingthingsandcompletelyeliminatedhiscancer.

It’soneofthosethingswherehedidabunchofotherstuffaswell.Youlookatstorieslikethat.That’ssupposedtobeimpossiblelikeforyoutojustgetridofthiscanceroutsideyoureyethatmighthavebeenbraincancerthatpeopleforgottopayattentionto.Like,“Oh!”

Dave: Itjustwentaway.That’scool.Ihopelistenerslisteningtothisjustrealizehowprofoundketosiscouldbeforcancer.Whyisitsosuccessfuloncancer?

Patricia: Thereasonwhytheketogenicdietwasformulatedwehavetogobacktothe1920swhenrealizedthatepilepticpatientswhoweresickandhadtofastthattheystoppedhavingseizures.Theyrealized“Ohfastingcouldbereallygoodforepilepticpatients.”Itdoessomethingtotheirbrain.That’showtheyactuallycameupwiththeketogenicdiet.It’sadietthatmimicsfastingbasically.Iguessthere’ssomuchresearchnowcomingoutonthewholefastingaswell,howmuchbetterintermsofinflammation,oxidativestressandalsolotsofotheraspectsintermsofpropertiesofgettingridofrubbishinlayman’stermandthat’sbasicallyprobablyoneofthepowersofketogenicdiet.

Ithinkit’sreductionisttosay“It’sjustaboutbloodsugars.”Oncebloodsugarsarelowthenthecancercellscan’tbefedanymore.Endofthestory.Theysay,“That’stoosimple.”Isay,“Yeahofcourseit’stoosimple.”It’salotmore.TheketogenicdiethasinfactsomanydifferentpathwaysandIheardDominicD’AgostinorecentlytalkinapodcastthatIthinkthere’saround20thatweknowofbutthere’satleastasmanythatweprobablydon’tknowofyet.

Dave: Twentypathwaysforketonestoeffectscancerorjustingeneral?

Patricia: MainlyalsointermsofcanceraswellthattherearesomanypathwaysthatareimportantforcancerlikeinsulinlikegrowthfactorandAMPKthenhowthat’saffectedaswell.Thelistgoesonandon.Angiogenesisaswasverywelldemonstratedinmyexampleaswellwealsoknowthattheketogenicdiethasaneffectongeneexpression.There’squitealotofresearchgoingonthere.That’sobviouslylinkedtocancer.There’salotwestillneedtodiscoverandweneedmoreresearchdefinitely.

Dave: There’saconvenientthingaboutketosisforlistenerswhohaveneverbeeninketosis.There’saneasywaytoexperiencealittlebitofit.WhenyoudoBulletproofCoffeemadewiththeright


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ingredientsBrainOctaneisthelargestsourceofexogenousketonesprobablythat’ssoldrightnowbecausesomanypeopleputitintheircoffee.Ifyoudon’thaveabowlofcornflakeswithit,youcanraiseyourketonesenoughtofeeltheeffectsonyourmetabolismjustbyhavingacupofBulletproofCoffeewithbrainoctaneinit.

Infactifyou’rewatchingonYouTubeI’mdrinkingmymorningonerightnow.It’sgotcollagenwhichisfreeofmethionineoralmostfreeofmethioninewhichisoneoftheaminoacidsassociatedwithextracancer.I’mnotsayingmethioninecausescancer.I’msayingifyougettoomuchofit,itcontributestoinflammationthatcontributestocancerbecauseinflammationlowersyourmitochondrialfunction.ThedifferenceinthequalityofmylifefromhavingsomeketonespresentisenoughthatIprobablydon’thavecancerrightnow.Ihavenoidea.IcantellyouIlikehowIfeelwhenIdothatandpartofwhatI’mdoingwithBulletproofisjustshowingpeople,“You’reabetterpersonwhenyouhavemoreenergyinyourcells.

Thefactthatyou’reprobablynotgettingcancerandyouhavemoreenergyinyourselvesisasideeffect.”Ifyouhavecancerandyou’veheardthispodcastorsomeoneyouknowdoes,there’snoexcusefornotgoingintoketosis.Youtalktoyourdoctorsanddecideifthere’ssomestrangecornercasebutIwouldchallengeadoctortofindareasonwhyyoushouldn’ttryketosisifyouhavecancerthat’sthreateningyourlife.Ketosisisnotdangerouscomparedtodying.

Patricia: That’sthewholedebate.Youprobablysaw…IhopeyougotachancetolookatthebookthatwejustpublishedTheKetogenicKitchenthatIpublishedwithDominiKemp.Thebacklashwegotisquiteamazing.ItissoinIrelandmaybe.

Dave: Ireland,intheUK?

Patricia: Yeah.

Dave: I’mjustgoingtobealittlebitrudehere.there’salotofveryfatpoliticiansandtheBritish…IthinktheycallthemtheBritishDieteticAssociationthatgiveyourecommendationstomakeyoudiabeticandtheyjustcomeoutanytimesomeonesayshighfattheyalwaysstandupandwaddlearoundaboutit.I’mdonewiththosepeople.Ihopethey’relistening.Everyonelisteningknowswhatyouguysaredoing.Youcannothide.We’renotgoingtobepoliteaboutiteventhoughthat’sliketheUKthingtodo.No,sorry.Don’ttellpeopletoeatsugar.It’sbadforthem.

Patricia: Obviouslyit’saverynewconceptespeciallyhere.IthinkyouguysinthestatesyouprobablyandespeciallyalsoinGermany,Switzerland.Yougotoclinicsthey’resortof“Wowyou’vebeendoingthatforalongtime.It’sjust…”It’snoteventalkedabout.Obviouslyinintegratedclinicsnotinthemainstream,itisintriguinghowketogenicdietisdangerous.Ithinkthere’sstillthismassivemixupwithketoacidosiswhichIfindreallysad.Thatwehaven’tmovedon.

Ithinkthat’soneofthebeautifulthingsabouttheketogenicdiet.Wehaveasafetyrecordfromepilepsyandinepilepsywehavetherandomizedcontroltrials.Iknowforafactthatinepilepsywewereactuallyabout10yearsagowewereattheexactsamestageandthenwearewithcancernow.Everybodysaidyou’recrazydoingthiswithepilepticpatients.It’snotsafe.Thereisnotenoughevidence.Ithinkwejusthaveabitofcatchuptodointermsoftheclinicaltrialsbut


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itishappeningandit’snopointjuststickingyourheadinthesandandignoringtheevidencethatwehaveatthemoment.

Dave: It’soneofthosethingswheredoingchemotherapyversustryingketosis.Maybeinketosisandchemotherapytogetherthey’rewillingtodosomestuffisincrediblyshockinglytoxicfora5%improvementinoutcomeanditcostshundredsofthousandsofdollars.Thedifferenceisreallynotthatbig.Itcreatesenormoussuffering.Youdon’treallysufferverymuchbytryingketosis.Youmighthavesugarcravingsforacoupleofdaysasyougetintoketosisandthenyoudon’tcareaboutfood.It’sawesome.Thedownsideissosmall.

Patricia: Ithinkwehavetotakeitfromanapproachlet’stryandcombineketosiswithconventionaltreatmentsbecausethat’stheonlywaytoreallygetitintomainstreamandAdrianCechabsolutelyamazingworkwithherteamshowinghowketosisorevenjustgivingitcanbeexogenousketonebodies.Wedon’tknowbutthat’swhattheyhavebeendoinginpreclinicaltrialsandwhateffectsthiswillhaveonradiotherapyandchemotherapy.Theresultsareastonishing.

ColinChamp,hedoesalotofresearchaswell.RogerClemensevenjusthavinglikeyousaidwiththeBulletproofCoffeeorashakethatraisesyourglucoseinthemorningbeforeyougointoradiotherapythatcanmakeadistancethatpeopledon’thavetoputeverythingintermsofdiettohavetoabsolutelyradicallychangeeverything.Sometimesit’snotrealisticwithsomebodywhohastostarttreatments.Itcanbejusttoomuchtofacetreatmenttocompletelyoverhaulyourdiet,tohavethingsinyourfridgethatyou’venevereverevenheadaboutorseenbefore.Itcanbealot.Ithinkwehavetoreallytakestepsandtakemeasuresnowtostartintegratingitintothemainstream.Inmyviewthat’sthewaytogo.

Dave: Itis.You’redefinitelyavoiceforpushingthat.Weknowalotaboutcancertreatment.IfIhavecancerrightnowI’dbecrankingoutmyketones.I’dprobablybeminimizingmycarbsmorethanIamnow.Iwouldbetalkingwithcancerspecialistsaboutwhat’smostlikelytowork.I’dalsobedoingaggressiveantifungaltherapybecausethere’sgreatevidenceforthat.Hyperbaricandthingslikethat.ThelastthingIwoulddoisjustgoonaspecialdietandhopemycancergoesaway.That’stheostrichthingforcancerthere.Youlookatallofthethingsthatarelikelytomakeyougetbetterandyouprobablycan.

Patricia: It’sawholecocktailofdifferentthingsasyoumentioned.Hyperbaricoxygenhasbeenshowntoenhancetheeffectsofketosis.There’ssomanyotherthingsthatIhavejustlearnedbitbybit.Ikeepchangingthingsandtweakingandimplementing,doingmoretesting.HowcanIactuallymakethisreallysustainableespeciallyandreallyoptimize?I’vejustrecentlystartedtoexercisealotmoreagain.Iusedtobesemi-professionaltriathleteandtrainedalot.Endurancetraining,theusualstuffandthencarbloadinguntilthecowscamehome.SometimesIwonder,“Hmmwasthatagoodthingtodo?”

Anywaythat’sthepast.I’mjusttryingaswell.Ihaven’tbeenexercisingintenselyeversinceIwasdiagnosedsoI’monlyjustrecentlynoticedendoflastyear.I’vestartedtosee“WhateffectsIhaveonketosisandhowdoIhavetoadapt?”It’sreallyalmostlikestartingfromscratchagainwhichisexciting.


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Dave: Areyougoingtostayinketosisforever?

Patricia: Idoreallywellonit.Ikeepmonitoring.Ihavetogoforregularultrasoundsofthewhole

abdomenaswellbecauseonethingwithmalignantmelanomaintheeyeisthatitlikestospreadtotheliver.That’sthefirstorganthatitwouldgofor.Tosomeextentalsospineorbones.Idoregularultrasoundsaswelljusttomakesureeverythingisfine.Somepeoplesay,“Kidneystonescanbeanissue.”Intermsofdigestivefunctionthere’sabsolutelyImeanitreallysocleanthere.Thegirlwhodoestheultrasoundshe’salways“Wowit’sjustreallyallvery,veryclean.Yourliverandkidneysandeverything.Absolutelynotanissue.”AslongasI’mnotrunningintotroubleandmymarkersareallgreat,I’mdoingmybloodsregularlyandcheckonotherthings.There’snoreasonwhyIwouldn’t

Dave: Thisisafantasticopportunitytoaskyousomemorepersonalquestionsifyou’reupforit.I’vebeentalkingaboutketosisforalongtimeandthere’shundredsofthousandsofpeoplewhohavetriedtheBulletproofdiet.It’sacyclicalketogenicdietwhereIsay,“Everyweekor2comeoutforaday.”OneofthepopulationsthatseemstobenefitthemostiswomenbecausesomewomeninfactIwouldsaymorethanhalfofwomenfromanonscientificsamplesizebutjustobservationallytendtogetadrenaldysfunctionorhormonalirregularitiesiftheystayinketosisallthetime.

ThereareotherswhoarejustlikeI’minketosisfor10yearsandIlovemylife.Idon’tknowwhatthedifferencebetweenthem.It’sprobablygenetic.Idon’tknowwhatelseitcouldbe.Haveyouhadanyproblemswithhormonelevelsoradrenaldysfunctionwhenyou’vebeeninketosisforalongtime?

Patricia: It’saninterestingquestionbecauseIthinkmyhormonesduetomysportsI’vealwaysbeen…let’sputitthatwayI’vebeenlaggingbehind.IthinkIwas18whenIhadmyfirstperiod.Totallyalotofthingsgoingwrong.IwasalsothinkingwhenIfirstresearchedit“IsthatgoingtoworkformebecauseIobviouslyhavethishistoryofhormonalimbalancesclearly.”It’sreallyinterestinghowmycycleisjustperfect.Icanalmostsetmywatch…Ihadneverexperiencedthatbeforeonacarbbaseddiet.

Dave: WasPCOSpartofyourissue?

Patricia: Idon’tthinkso.No,whichwouldbethere’ssomegoodstudiesintopreclinicalstudiesintoPCOSandketo.Idon’tthink,Icouldalmostswearthatthatwasn’t…

Dave: It’sinterestingwhenwelookatketosisandcancerandthenhormonesbecausehormoneshaveaneffectoncancer.Ketosishasaneffectonhormones.Thisiswhyhackinghumanbodyit’sacomplexsystem.Somuchofresearchislike,“I’mgoingtolookatadrenals.”It’slikethey’recontrolledbythebrain.Thebrainiscontrolledbymitochondria.Youjustlookatthiswhereyoulookatusing10differentmodalitiesforcancerallatthesametime.Theresearchersandtheexpertssay“Thisismymodality.ThisistheonlysystemIworkon.”Iwantedallofthoseeffectsatoncebecauseit’sacomplexsystem.Doyoueverwonderaboutthat?


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Patricia: Definitely.Iwonderhowinoncologywe’resofocusedonthetumor.Whatisthetumordoingandhowisthetumoraffectedbythisorthat?Ithinkthat’spartoftheproblemofourmedicalsystematthemoment.It’sthiscompartmentalizingandjustlookingat1systemaloneandnotbeingawareoftheknockoneffectithasontheentirebody.That’swhyIlovefunctionalmedicinewhichreallyconnectsitallandjoinsitoffbasically.

Formeit’salwaysbeenclearthemoreIlearnedaboutcancerandIstudieditveryintenselyandreadalotofthingsaboutit.There’snoonereasonsowhyshouldtherebeonetreatment.Onethingthatworkssoit’ssomultifacetedthatwehavetoreallyattackitfromsomanydifferentangles.I’mtalkingespeciallyalsoaboutemotions.Insteadofcre-creenergy.I’mastrongbelieverinstufflikethatbutalsolookingatwhenwetalkabouthormones.

WhenIgetemailsfrommyclientsat3:00inthemorning,whatareyoudoingat3:00inthemorningonyourcomputer?Youshouldbesleeping.There’ssomereallysimplethingsthatpeoplejustdon’tknoworthey’renotawareofthemandtheycanmakeahugedifference.It’sjustpiecingallthistogetherandIthinkasanutritionaltherapistoranypractitioneryoureallyhavetobeawareofthis.Wheredowestart?Ofcoursethat’salwaysthebigquestion.Asyousayeverythingthenhasalotofimplications.IalwayshadtolaughwhenmyoncologistwasintheUK.He’sinSanFrancisconow.WhenIwentforcheckups,heusuallycameinandasked“Sohow’stheeye?”Isay,“Iamfine.Thanks.”

Dave: That’sagreatline.

Patricia: Theaccessoryofthetumorisfine.You’regoingtotellmenowwhatthetumorisdoingandhowtheeyeisdoingbutit’ssofunny.Theyjustgetcompletelyfocusedonthebodypartwherethetumoris.Weknowthattheenvironmentisequallyimportant,theenvironmentofthetumor.

Dave: Thatleadsin2verydifferentdirectionsforthenextquestionIwanttoaskyou.IgottomakesureIrememberbothofthesequestions.Oneofthemlet’stalkabouttheenvironment.Iamparticularlyconcernedaboutbluelightexposureandcancerandmaculardegenerationinpeople.ImanufacturefiltersthatIhaveonmyphonesthattakeoutsomeofthebluelight.Thestuffthatmostsuppressesmelatonin.

Weknowmelatoninisanticancer.Ifyou’restaringatabrightwhiteiPhonebeforeyougotobedorAndroiditdoesn’treallymatterthenyou’resuppressingmelatonin.Melatonininparthelpsyouknockyourcancer.Youshouldn’tbestaringatbrightwhitelightsandyoureallyshouldbewearingdarkglassesanddimmingyourphoneanddoingallsortsofcrazystuff.Howimportantdoyouthinklightisontheskinandintheeyeswhenitcomestocancerandcancermetabolism?

Patricia: Ithinkit’shugelyimportant.Notjustforeyecancerbutobviouslyandparticularlyforeyecancer.YoumentionedmelatoninwhichisoneofthemajorantioxidantsaswellandhugelyanticancersoIknowalotofcancerpatientswhoactuallysupplementmelatonin.Ithinkitgoesalotfurther.Ithinktherearesomanyeffectsoflightespeciallylightexposure.Ithinkit’sbothextremes.GettingthelightexposurefirstthinginthemorninganobviouslyhereinIrelandit’salittlebittrickysometimes.It’sstillbright.


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Obviouslyit’sthebrightnessandtryingtoturntowardsthesun.Justhavingthatinthemorning

it’salmostlike,“We’reawakenow.”Thenobviouslyintheeveningjustreducingthebluelight.It’sinterestingthattheWorldHealthOrganizationtheyclassifyshiftworkorirregularsleeppatternsasaprobablecarcinogenandIthinkthatsaysitall.IwasrecentlyatacancertalkanditwasorganizedbytheIrishCouncilSociety.Somebodyaskedabout“Howimportantissleep?”Thepersondoingthetalksaid,“We’renotquitesure,couldhaveanimpact.”

Dave: Goodgod!

Patricia: WHOissuperconservative.

Dave: Weneedmoreevidence.

Patricia: Yeahweneedmoreevidence.Weneedmorerandomizedcontrolledtrialstoactuallyshowhowtheeffectofbluelightcanreallyeffectintermsofcancerespecially.I’mastrongbelieverinit.Idon’tknowifyou’refamiliarwithDr.JackKruse.He’sdoingalotofresearchintolightandhe’sactuallyconvinced…

Dave: Isn’tmostlyNickLane?ItseemslikewheneverIreadNickLane’swork,Nickistheonewho’soriginatingalotofthe…

Patricia: Couldbeyeah.I’mnot100%sure.I’mlisteningtosomeofhis…itsinterestinghowitaffects…

Dave: Nickwastheoriginatorofalotofthestuff.Hewroteabigpaperin2013aroundeyesspecificallylightandmitochondriathatkickedalotofthatoff.I’mahugefanofjustgoingtothesourceonthatstuff.

Patricia: Onlyveryrecentlyactuallystartedtoreallylookmoreintoitespeciallywhenitcomestoreceptorsintheeyeandallofthatandhowitaffectsus.It’sanareawithhugepotentialwhenitcomestoketosisespeciallyaswellhowtooptimize.

Dave: ForyouafterthisI’llsendyouNick’spaperbecauseit’sspecificallyaboutmitochondriaintheeyeandaroundhowlightchangesmitochondria.He’soneofthetopthinkersNickLaneandLingarethe2whoIgoto.There’ssomuchgoingonwiththecoloroflight.IhaveredlightsIhaveforyearsandhouseatnightinsteadofamberorinsteadoftheseotherthingswearunusualcoloredlensesandjustdoallthisbecausetheevidenceisouttherearoundsleepquality,aroundcircadiansignalingandspecificallyaroundwhathappenswithcellularenergyproductionintheeyesandjustinthebody.

I’mprofoundlyconcernedaboutmaculardegenerationmuchlesscancerbecauseofthechangeswe’vehadwithLEDlighting.It’soneofthosethings.WhenIhearanalternativecancerresearchthey’lljustsay,“It’saboutyourfood.”Itisaboutyourfood.It’sabsolutelyaboutyourfood.Ifyoueatjunkfoodyourchancesofgettingcancergoup.Ifyougetridofyourjunkfoodandyou’restilllookingatjunklighttheoddsofgettingcancerarereally,reallyprofound.IlookatjunklightasaproblemonethatIlikeImanufacturestufftohelpreducetheimpactonmyself


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butIsimplydon’tbelievethatlightismoreimportantthanfood.Whatismostimportantisfoodandlighthelpstomodulatewhatyourbodydoeswithit.

Patricia: Iagree.

Dave: Doyouseecancerresearchersinthenext20yearstellingpeople“You’vegottochangeyourdiettobeinketosis.”Doyouthinkthat’sgoingtohappeninyourlife?Let’ssayyourlifeisprobablylongerthan20years.Ishouldn’tsaylifein20years.

Patricia: Isincerelyhopeso.Ithinkwe’regoingintherightdirectionbecausetherearesomanyreallybrilliantpeopleworkingatitandmotivatedpassionatepeopleworkingonit.Ithinkthepreclinicaldatahasbecometoocompellingtosimplyignoreit.Whetherit’sgoingtobeapplicableforalltypesofcancer,Ithinkthat’stheotherthingwehavetoreallystudyveryhardwhichtypesofcancerrespondsbesttotheketogenicdiet.IfyoucouldfindsomethingandIknowinsome…IwasataconferenceinFuldainGermanylastNovemberandthey’restartingtodometabolictypingoftumors.

Ithinkthat’swhereit’sgoing.Isthattumormainlypredominantlyglutaminedependentorglucosedependentoramixofthe2ornone?Thereareprobablytumorsthatdon’trespondtotheketogenicdiet.Wejustsimplydon’tknowenoughaboutityet.Wehavetostudyit.Ifsomebodysays,“I’mnottryingtheketogenicdiet.Ihavecancerbutifyousayit’snotsafethenthat’snotanargument.”Thesafetyargumentissimplynotvalid.That’swhyIthinkanypatientwhohasthesupportandwhohastheenergyandthemotivationtodoit,Istronglyencouragethemtostudyandtolookintoitdefinitely.

Dave: Havingcancerisnotsafe.

Patricia: Noit’snotverypleasant.It’snotonmylistofgo-tos.

Dave: That’sagreattweet.Havingcancerisnotsafe.It’swhatitcomesouttowhentheysayketosisyouhavecancer.Like,“Yup.”Itprobablyisbecauselivingisn’tsafewhenyouhavecancereither.You’vegottosolvetheproblem.

Patricia: It’sallamatterofperspective,isn’tit?

Dave: Yeah.Thatwasonequestionaboutlightandtheenvironmentofcancerwhereit’saquestionoffoodandtemperatureandlightandairpressureandoxygenandallthethingsthatyoucanchangeasabiohackerifyouwantto.Youcanchangethepressure.Sitinanicebath,getinthehyperthermiachamberand…Ifindalmostnofocusonthosethingsinmainstreamcancerresearcheventhoughitseemsliketheyshouldbe.Theotherthingyoumentionedthoughisyoumentionedyourenergyandemotionsandthingslikethat.I’malloverthat.

OneofthebiggestBulletproofrecommendationsIhaveisreallyexpensive.It’sthateverynightbeforeyougotobedwritedownthreethingsyou’regratefulfor.Itchangesyoursympatheticnervoussystemwhichchangesyourmetabolicstate.Itactuallydoes.Doyoumeditate?Doyouhaveapracticeofsomesortaroundmanagingyouremotions?Doyouthinkithasanyimpacton


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cancer?

Patricia: It’saninterestingquestionbecauseIactuallystartedchantingwhenIwasdiagnosedbecauseIdidn’tjustwanttositathomeandtwiddlemythumbs.Icouldn’tworkobviouslyforalongtimebecauseIliterallycouldn’tlookintothecomputerwithouthavingsomemajorreactionmeaningIhadtothrowup.Ittookawhileforthebraintoresettleandtogetusedtolookingintoscreens.Readingwasoutforalong,longtime.Isaid,“I’mgoingtodochanting.”

IwasalwaysdrawntoBuddhism.FunnyenoughalotofmyfriendsinDublintheywereactuallypracticing.That’swhatIstarted.Ididquiteabitatthebeginningmorningandeveningroutine.Nowit’smoremovedtowardsIdoemotionalfreedomtechniqueandIdomorewalkingmeditation.Inthemorningafterdroppingthekids,Iwalkhometoanicelittleforestandthat’swhereIdothegroundingandjustbeingbasicallyandbreathing.

FormeIcan’treallyhaveareallystrongpractice.It’sreallyintermsoftimemanagementaswellbecauseIhave2smallkidsandallofthat.IncorporatingitintomydayandalsobreathingtechniquesIusealot.Basicallyjustcomingbackfromtimetotimeandjuststompingallovertheplaceandbeingtotallyimmersedinworkandjustdragmyselfoutofthatespeciallyrunningreallyhelpsandexercisehelpsmebigtime.ThesearemymaintechniquesandItrytoreallyincorporateandemotionalfreedomtechniqueIdoaswell.

Dave: Forlisteners,emotionalfreedomtechniqueisalsoknownastapping.Youcancheckoutlikethetappingsolution.It’sapartoftapping.I’veseenprofoundchangesinpeoplewithoutcancerfromEFTorfromtappingandalsofromEMDRwhichsometimesusestappingbutdoesn’t.Thesearewayofaddressingthosecoreemotionaltraumasthataffectyourmetabolismlikeforlackofabetterword.It’sawesomethatyou’vegonedownallofthosepaths.

Youmentionedgrounding.Istartedtalkingaboutthatasatreatmentforjetlag.Likein2010IstartedbloggingaboutitandpeoplethoughtIwasnuts.Nowit’salittlebitmoreaccepted.Alotofpeoplehavekindofgoneontothatidea.Waybackinthedaythoughitwasconsideredprettyweird.IwouldflyfromSanFranciscotoCambridge,England.EverymonthIwouldspendaweektherewhichisthishorriblejetlaglikesomeoftheworstyoucandoflyingeastlikethat.Iwasdoingalltheseexperiments.IfIgetthere,doIfastontheairplaneornot?DoIexerciseinthemorningtoraisemybodytemperature?

OnetimeIexercisedinthemorning,onetimeitwasactuallysunnyintheUK.There’sapark.Iprobablygotsomesunexposure,probablyhadsunglassesonsoitdidn’tcount.Ididyogainthepark.Iwasearthing.Ijustrememberedthiswas2008orsobeforeearthinghadreallycomeout.Irememberexerciseworksbutitwasn’teverexercise.itwastheearthing,thegroundingthatworked.thatwaswhyIstarted…IwroteaboutthatearlyonandthelasttimeIwasinGermanyIwasthereoutsidethehotelwithmyfeetonthegrasses,48degreesoutsideFahrenheitandjustcold.Youdoitbecauseitworks.youmentionedthatyoudidthatwhenyougoforwalksyoutakeoutyourshoesandgoforawalksomewhereandmeditateallthesametime?

Patricia: Yeah.Iactuallygrewupnotwearingshoesthatmuch.Mymomisstill…eveninthedeepestwintershe’susuallybarefoot.


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Dave: IsthataSwissthing?

Patricia: Idon’tknowifitis.Idon’tthinksoactually.

Dave: ItsoundsSwiss.

Patricia: It’safamilything.I’mactuallymyselfpartlyjusttakenthishabitaswell.Iliketobebarefootfor

whateverreason.ItmustmakemefeelbetterotherwiseIguessIwouldn’tdoitsubconsciously.Alsojustwalkinginthegarden.Ithinkitjusthelpsevenjustconnecting.WhateveryoucallitifitsearthingorgroundingIthinkitisagreatthingbutsomepeopletheyprobablywouldfeelthatweirdtakingoff…I’monmyownbedinthemorning.Ihaveitcomingthatway.ItisokaybutIthinkit’sjustthisconnectionwithnaturethatIreallycrave.It’salwaysbeentherebutIthinkwithcancerit’sbecomeevenmorepronounced.ObviouslygrowingupinSwitzerlandandprettymuchaviewtothemountainsfromtheclassroomthatIthinkisjustaninnatethingaswellthatIhave.Thatreallyhelps.

Dave: It’shardtoquantifythatbecauseindoubleblindtrialsfornatureexposurethey’reallveryforcedandweird.Anyonewhotriesitforawhilerealizenatureisapotentdruginitofitself,right?

Patricia: Yeah.

Dave: Goodthingtheycan’twriteprescriptionstokeepyoufromgettingit.

Patricia: That’sexactlyit.Ihadtomoveabitfromthemountainstotheseanow.WheneverIgetachanceIgoswimminginthefreezingIrishSea.InitiallyIfinditreallyhardtoevenjustgetinthewater.NowI’mprettyuseditandIgetinveryquickly.Imanagetostayupto20to30minutessometimes.It’ssolifeenhancing.It’sabsolutelyfabulous.

Dave: There’slotsofgoodreasontodothat.I’mnotfarfromacoldoceanbutit’sjustlongenoughthatittakestoolongtogetthereandbackwhenIhavekids.Ihavecryotherapythough.Ihavealiquidnitrogenthatcoolstheair.Iusedtoweigh300poundsand50%morethando.Idon’tknowhowmanystonethatisbutitwasalotofstones.

Ihadtoxinmoldexposureswhichinhibitsmitochondrialfunctionwaymorethanlightorbadfoodactually.It’sadirectmitochondrialpoisonandchronicLymediseaseandallthesethings.Idon’thavethoseanymore.OccasionallyIbreathesomemoldorsomethingbutlikeitreversesveryquickly.IjusttoldthisstuffbecauseI’mkindof180.Whenyourealizehowmuchcontrolyouhaveinyourmetabolismlike,“Ohmygodthisisawesome.”

Whenwetalkaboutthislikeyou’resomeonewho’sdealtwithcancerandislookingatlivingalongtimenowthatyou’vemanagedit.You’remakingchangestoyourenvironmentinordertohavemorecontrolortomakeyourbodyandmetabolismthatyouwant.Whatwedodoesn’tsoundtoodissimilar.I’m1000%convincedthatcontrollingyourmitochondrialfunctionisoneofthewaysthatyoucanstaveoffagingandyoucanfeelreallygoodthewholetimeyoustaveoff


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aging.That’swhyIlikemylifethisway.

Patricia: Ithinkthat’swhyit’ssoimportantthatwestart…incancerresearchwestartaddressingthisquestion.Iscancerreallyageneticdisease?Iactuallyreallydon’tbelieveitsolelyisorwhetherit’samitochondria,ametabolicdisease.TheworkofThomasSiegfriedwho’sbasedinBostonisabsolutelybrilliant.He’sshowingaswellthatthemajorhallmarksofcancerthere’sadirectlinktothemitochondriaaswell.

Itreallysaddensmeandit’sveryfrustratingthatnotmoremoneyisbeingputintoresearchingallthiswhenitcomestocancerandthatreallyeverysinglecentonthoseisinvestedintofindingmoregeneticmutationsthatwecanpossiblytargetwithdrugs.Whenweseethepotentialthatifwejustshiftthatmindsetand…It’sachickenandeggsituation.WhatwasfirstwasittheDNAmutationorwasn’titmitochondrialdamage?ThenucleartransferexperimentsI’msure…areyoufamiliarwiththem?

Dave: Uh-hmm(affirmative).

Patricia: Ithinkthey’reabsolutelymind-blowing.WhenIfirstsawthisIwas“HolyMoses!Thisisjust…”

Dave: Someofourlistenersprobably…walkthemthroughforourlisteners.

Patricia: Basicallythoseareexperimentswheretheyhadhealthycellsandwhentheyreplicateyouhad2healthycells.Nothingnew.Thenyouhaveacancercellthatisthenucleusiscancerousandalsothecytoplasm.Theareaaroundnucleuswherethemitochondriaareiscanceroustoo.Thatreplicatesandthenyouhaveacancerouscell.Notmuchsurprisethere.WhathappensthoughifwetransfercancerousnucleussowithDNAmutationsintoahealthycytoplasmthat’sreallyinterestingbecausethenthecellreplicatesthenandbasicallythentheDNAorthecellisstillokay.Itsfunctionaloritsbeingbasicallyapoptosishappens.It’sstillafunctioningcell.

Thetissueisstillworkingaswellifthemitochondriaarehealthy.WhathappensifthemitochondriaarecancerousandthosehealthynucleuswithnoDNAmutations?Whenthatcellreplicatesthenbasicallythewholecellthenbecomescancerousveryquickly.Actuallywehaveitinourbookaswell.It’sverynicelydemonstratedthere.

AlsowithcommentsometimesIthinkitsoundsabitabstractandIexplainit.ThatreallyshowsitdemonstratesmitochondriatheypossiblyprotectthecellfromDNAdamageandwhenthemitochondriawhensomethinggoeswrongwiththemitochondriathenthat’swhenwehavearealproblemwhenthecellreplicates.That’swhyit’sfrustratingforus.Thisisnotresearchedalotmorebymainstreamcancerresearchers.

Dave: There’ssomuchgoingon.Oneofmyareasofexpertiseisaroundmycotoxinsaswellasfungalinfectionsandwaterdamagetoourenvironment.OneofthethingsthatwenowknowmitochondriadoesandthisisgoingbacktoNickLane’swork.Mitochondriausephotonsforsignalingbetweeneachotherlikeverybriefburstsoflightviaphotons.Whenyouareexposedtomycotoxinsthatinhibitrespirationthatcanbecancerousbutifyouhaveafungalinfectionitselfitaffectslightsignalingbetweenthecells.I’mahackerbytrainingliterallyacomputer


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hacker.

Oneofthethingsyoudoifyoureallywanttohackasystemisyoumessupsignalingbetweenthings.About100yearsagowedecidedthatwe’remostlychemicalbeings.Thiswasabigsplitinmedicinewherehalfthepeopleofthetimethoughtwewereelectrical,halfthatwewerechemical.We’reboth.We’remagneticandwe’relightbasedandallsortsofotherthings.It’sallsimultaneous.Itwasthatdivisionwherewefocusespeciallycancerresearchischemical,chemical,chemicalandnowgeneticbutthey’reforgettingaboutthesignalingside.

Asahackerit’slikethat’showyoudisruptthenetwork.Youjustgetinthereandyougumupthewaythingstalktoeachotherandprettysoonthewholethingfallsdown.Thatseemslikeaprettygooddescriptorwhat’sgoingonincancer.Ilookforthingsintheenvironmentlikelightorlikefungaltoxinsyoubreathethatbreakthemitochondriaandsay,“Whatdidthatdotothewholesystem?”Itbreaksit.

Patricia: There’sacareoncologyclinicinLondonactuallyandthey’relookingquiteabitintoantifungalsaswell.They’rebasicallyrepurposingolddrugs.They’reusingamixofmetforminandthenalsoantifungalsandverylowdoseantibioticsincasethere’sanythingelseandlowdosestatinsaswellverysurprisinglywhichisperfect…

Dave: Thatissurprising.

Patricia: Yeahwhichisveryinterestingthatthey’rebasicallyolddrugsthataren’treally…Ithinktheycan’t.Theycouldpotentiallybepatentedagainbutthey’rerunoutofpatent.They’redesigningwholecocktailsandthenbasicallyjusttailoringthemtotheindividual.Italsomeansthatsomepeoplethey…itactuallymakesitaloteasiertofollowaketogenicdietthattheycanhavealittlebitmorecarbsobviouslybecausethey’reonthemetforminaswellbutforsomepeopleitseemstojustworkincrediblywell.It’sinterestingthatyoumentionedtheantifungalsbecauseitisdefinitelyabigthingaswell.Ican’trememberthedoctorsayingwho…insteadofcameupwiththetheorycancerfungusand…

Dave: itwasAVConstantini.Iboughthisbooks.Theywere$500inabout2006fromhisdaughterandtheyhadtoshipthemfromGermany.Infacthe’soneofthepeoplewho’sinformedmethemostinmyexplorationofhowthebodyworks.It’samazingthatyouknowofhiswork.BasedonhisworkifIhadcancertomorrow,Iwouldbedoingallthethingswe’rediscussingherebutIwouldalsobedoingoralamphotericinBwhichisavery,veryoldantifungaldrugbutit’soneofthebroadestspectrumheaviestdutyonesintravenously.ItsavespeoplewithAIDSquiteoftenifitdoesn’tkillthembecauseit’ssobad.

Orallyit’srelativelysafe.Ijustdon’tknowwheretogetitbecauseit’shardtofind.Thatwouldbesomethingthat…ifyouhavecancer,talktoyourdoctorsifyou’relisteningtowhatI’msaying.Thereisdefinitelyamazingresearchonwhatthesethingscoulddo.Whetherthosedrugsaremitochondrial,Idon’tthinkanyonehaseverlookedbutmaybetheyare.Idon’tknow.

Patricia: Ithinkit’sagainanoldcocktailofthings.Ithinkrelyingononestrategytoomuchisprobablynotwisewhenitcomestocancer.Alsoit’sconstantlychanging.It’ssuchadynamicprocesslike


17

somepeopletheysay,“Ohcanyoujustdesignaketogenicdietformymealplans.”ThenIjustkeeprepeatingthem.Iwaslike,“That’snotweneedthewayittowork.”Youhavetoadapt.Youarechangingallthetime.Yourenvironmentischangingallthetime.Ithinkthisissoimportanttojustkeepveryflexibleandadaptingwhateverprotocolsyouhaveespeciallywithcancerpatients.

Dave: OneofmyfavoriteguestsonBulletproofRadiowasGlenfromAlderspringRanch.Thisguyisasoilbiologistturnedgrass-fedcattlerancher.Hedescribeshow…hehad100squaremileswherehegrazeshiscattle.Hesays“Thedifferenceinmycows…“andhiscowstastebetter“isthathiscowswilllookatthegrassandthey’llchooseexactlythetuftofgrassthat’srightfortheirbody.”There’sadifferencebetweenwhat’sgrowinghereandwhat’sgrowinghereevenifthey’re10feetapart.They’reconnected.They’resemiwildcattle.

Ithinkwehavesomeofthesamestuffgoingonwiththose2.Yourbodyknowswhatitneedsandtheketogenicmealplanthat1personjustthrivesonmightnotbequiterightforanotherperson.Theymightstillneedketosisbutmaybetheyneededmorebroccoli.Whoknowsbutifthat’swhatyourbodywantslikegiveitmorebroccoli.Broccoliisgoodforcancertoo.

Patricia: That’sthething.There’salsonoonewayofdoingtheketogenicdiet.Likeyousaysomepeopleabsolutelythriveoncyclicalandothersthey’refineindeepketosis.Thenthere’speoplewhoareactuallydoingreallywellonjustlowcarbandthey’renotnecessarilyinketosisordoingmaybevery,verylightketosisafterfastalittlebit.Itreallythere’sno1sizefitsalldefinitelyintheketogenicdiet.Ithinkwealsohavetobecarefulthatwedon’tconstantlyfocusonthemacrosandthatmicronutrientsaresometimesgettingalittlebitforgottenabout.Forsomepeoplethey’rejustsofocusedongettingthemacro,thecarbs,fatandproteinrightthattheyforget“There’sawholerangeofotherfoodsthatweshouldincludeandmakeketogenicobviously.”Ithinkthat’sveryimportantandthat’swhatIworkonalotaswell.

Dave: Let’stalkalittlebitmoreaboutmacrosbecauseIhaveabookit’stheAtkinsdiettheoriginal1steditionofhisbook.IhaveitonashelfrightheresomewherebecauseitcameouttheyearIwasborn.It’sjustareminderthatthisknowledgeisabout…Iwascoveredinstretchmarks.Iwasobesebecausethatknowledgewascompletelyignoredandshunnedeventhoughliterallytensofmillionsofpeoplelost100millionpoundsontheAtkinsdietbeforeIwas12.Itmadeadifference.Itwastheoriginalketosisdietusedonaverybroadbasiseventhoughwedidn’tknowwhyitworkedandhadmistakesinit.YoucouldeatcreamcheeseandporkrindsalldaylongwhichIdon’tnecessarilyrecommend.Whatarethemacrosandwhatarethetypesofproteinsmaybethatpeopleoughttoavoidevenifthey’rehittingtheirmacros?

Patricia: Intermsofmacroswhatwelookatisandagainthisdependsifsomebodyhastoloseweightorhastogainweight.Thatalwaysobviouslythenmakesadifferenceintermsofthefatintake.IfIworkwithsomebodyit’sobviouslythegoalisdeterminedthenthemacrosespeciallyalsoifsomebodyisgoingtotreatmentforinstancethenIhavetoadjustproteinprobablyalittlebit.WithcarbsaswellitsusuallywhatIfindisstarting…reducingto12gramsovermaybe2weeksorsodependingonwheretheystartfromobviouslyandthenkeepingitatthe12gramsforalittlebit.That’susuallyit’saround4%oftotalcalorieintakesortofonastandardketogenicdiet.Thenproteinisaround12to15%sonotveryhigh.


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Againthere’squiteabitofresearchatthemomentbeingdoneintoinsulinogenicfoodsand

proteinrichfoods.Theaminoacidsasyoumentionedearlierareprobablyalittlebitlesspreferable.It’salsointerestingthattherearecertainfoodsthatcan…theyhavenocarbsbuttheyraiseinsulin.Ithinkthat’s[crosstalk00:57:22]

Dave: Likewheyproteinandthingslikethatorwhatareyou[crosstalk00:57:24]?

Patricia: Yeah.Alsointermsofthecheeses.Thereseemstobeabitofadifference.Thebestonesseemstoactuallybethesoftones.Thentheveryhardonessomeofthemarealotmoreinsulinogenic.Thenalsobeefseemstobemoreinsulinogenic.Turkeyapparentlyishighlyinsulinogenic.

Dave: Isthattryptophanorsomethingweird?

Patricia: Probably.Idon’tknowhowmanyreallyvery,verysolidstudiesarebeingdoneintothisandagainit’sprobablyliketheglycemicloadswhereitisindividualtosomeextentaswellandpeoplesimplyhavetomeasure.Itstillisinterestingthattherearecertainproteinsthatobviouslythenintermsoftheinsulinthathasaneffectontheketonebodyaswell.Ifinsulingoesoff,thentheketonebodiesusuallyareaffectedaswell.ThisisthingsthatpeoplehavetotestandIcaneastcertaincheesesandIseeactuallyontheketonixthatmyacetonesowhatwemeasureinthebreath,theketonebodyitseemstobeaffected.Notforverylongbutitisinteresting.

I’musingtheketonixjusttotestcertainfoodsometimes.ThelongerI’minketosisthoughthelessitseemstoreallybeaproblem.Ithinkalsothat’saverybigquestionaswell.Howdowechangethemacrosovertime?I’mprobablybackatabout50,60gramsofcarbsagain.I’mnotdownat12anymore.Mymacrohashalfshiftedalittlebit.IalsohavealittlebitmoreproteinbecauseIexercisemorethanIwouldhavehadwhenoriginallywhenIstartedtheketogenicdiet.Iwasn’texercisingandmyfocuswasreallyonthetumorandcuttingitrightforthetumor.

Ithinkthat’sthemainthing.ThenobviouslyfactisIalwayssayit’sthebuffer.Itisaround75to80%oftotalcalorieintakebutagainifsomebodyismassivelyoverweight,it’sinterestingthatit’sprobablynotreallyasuperhighfatdietbutyouhavetorestrictcaloriesalittlebitsomehowiftheywanttoloseweightobviously.Notforallpeoplebutformost.That’sthebufferthen.Thefatintakereallyvariesthenfrompersontoperson.SomepeopleIknowtheycaneatalmostendlessamountoffatsandtheyweightstaysstableoritdoesn’tseemtomakeahugedifferenceandothers.

Ithinkespeciallywomentheyreallyhavetoiftheydon’twanttoputonweightafterawhileontheketogenicdiettheyhavetokeepabitmoreofaneyeonthefatintakewhichthat’sobviouslyacontroversialthingtosay.WhenIsometimessee“Everybodyhastoeatmorefat.”IntheUKyouprobablyhearditsgoingonthepastfewweeks.Ithinkitcanbealsoabitofadangerousmessagebecausepeoplethink“IjustputbutteroneverythingbutIdon’tchangeanythingelseaboutmydiet.”

Dave: Thatdrivesmenuts.Ifyou’regoingtoeat4croissantsandwashthemdownwithBulletproof


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Coffee,you’renotdoingitright.Therearebasicthingsyougottodoarounddoingthings.Withthatsaid,ifyouhaveBulletproofCoffeeyouprobablywon’twanttoeat4croissants.Thatisaprofoundthinginitofitself,right?

Patricia: Yeahunlessyouhavethe4croissantsfirstthenyou’restillhungry,thenthat’stheproblem.

Dave: Itisamajorproblem.Myrecommendationsarereallyclearonthat.DoBulletproofcoffee.Fatandproteininthemorning.Don’teatcarbsinthemorningforanyoneevenifyou’renotonanyspecialdietjustbecauseitsinconvenienttobestarvingat10:30.Itsimplymakesthequalityofyourlifebetterwhenyoudothat.Ifyou’regoingtohaveyourcarbs,dothematlunchandmorespecificallytowardsdinnerbecausethey’llimproveyoursleepquality.Youdothisonaregularbasiswithoutanycravings,thenmaybeyourfatmaybeyou’renotbutatleastyouhavetonsofenergyallthetime.That’sawin.

Patricia: Ithinkwehavetobeveryclearwiththemessagewheninsteadof…wearemovingwiththepublichealthcollaborationnowintheUK.Wearemovingtowardssomethinghastohappenwiththefoodpyramidandeverything.Ithinkgettingthemessageveryclearisgoingtobeveryimportanttomakesurepeoplebenefit.

Dave: Let’shopethisepisodeofBulletproofRadiohelpstomakethatmessageclearthatbeingafraidoffatdoesn’tmakesense.Beingafraidofsomefatdoesmakesense.Allproteinsarenotthesame.Ifyouhavecancerandyouhaven’tthoughtaboutketosis,youprobablyaren’tconsideringallyouroptionsIthink.Ihopethosemessagesarereallyclear.

Patricia: Yeah,exactly.

Dave: Ihaveonemorequestionforyou.ThisisaquestionthateveryguestonBulletproofradiohasansweredonetimeoranother.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandsaid,“IwanttoperformbetterateverythingIdoinlife.”thisissomeonewithoutcancernecessarilybutsomeonesays,“IwanttokickassateverythingIdo,whatarethe3mostimportantthingsIshouldknow?”Whatwouldyouhavetoofferthem?

Patricia: Stresslevels,findawaytomanagestresswhichisoneofthethingsthatiscrucialforme.Ifindthataswell.That’spointnumber1first.Wedidn’ttalkaboutstress.Ithinkthat’sahugeoneormanagingstress.Thesecondoneitprobablywouldbesomethingdietrelateddefinitely.Startingwithgettingridofjunkfoodsdependingonwheretheystartfromanddefinitelylookingatdiet.Thethirdonecommunity.Makesureyousurroundyourselfwithpeoplethatgiveyousomethingandyougivesomethingbacktothemthatyouhavegreatrelationshipsinyourlife.Thatwillbethe3things.

Dave: Beautifullist.Patricia,wherecanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutyourworkandspecificallyyourbook?

Patricia: Mywebsiteispatriciadaly.com.That’sthemainsitethatthenleadsontoIhaveafewreallynicefreebiesaswellwhenitcomestotheketogenicdietwherepeoplecanactuallyjustlearnthebasicsandsee“Isthissomethingforme?”wherepatientsandpractitionersandthat’s


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ketoforyou.com.

Dave: Spellthat.IsthatketoF-O-R-Y-O-U.com?

Patricia: Yeahexactly.ThelinkthatgoesfromPatriciaDalywiththe…

Dave: PatriciaDalyisP-A-T-R-I-C-I-A,Daly,D-A-L-Y,right?

Patricia: Exactly.

Dave: Allofthatwillbeintheshownotes.Itwillbeonthetranscriptofthis.Ifyouwanttodownloadthetranscriptorwhateverelse.PatriciaDalyD-A-L-Y.com

Patricia: That’sright.ThenwesimplyhaveforourbookTheKetogenicKitchenIactuallyhaveithere.It’stheketogenickitchen.com.It’scomingtothestatesinSeptember.It’sgoingtobepublishedinthestatessoon.Thanks.Isgoingtobeonamazon.comaswell.Atthemomentit’sjustintheUKandonthebookdepositorybutwe’recomingovernowwhichhisveryexciting.

Dave: Ifyou’relookingforsomemorerecipesyoucanusethatarehighfatandlowincarbohydrateanddeliciousandfullofvegetablesthatkindofrecipesIrecommend,thisisagoodbooktocheckout.IlookforwardtobeabletogetintheUS.

Patricia: Thanks,yeah.Great.

Dave: ThanksPatricia.Haveanawesomeday.

Patricia: Youtoo.ThanksamillionagainforhavingmeDave.

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Cancer’s Ketogenic Kryptonite with Patricia Daly -...

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