Lillegaard Transcript

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURTFOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

JAMES P. CHASSE, JR.; JAMES P. 1

CHASSE; LINDA GERBER; and MARKCHASSE, individually and in his

capacity as Personal Representative )of the ESTATE OF JAMES P. CHASSE, )JR., ) Copy

Plaintiffs, )V. )NO. CV-07-0189-HU

CHRISTOPHER HUMPHREYS; KYLE NICE; )CITY OF PORTLAND; CITY OF PORTLAND )JOHN DOE FIREFIGHTERS/PARAMEDICS;PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU and OTHER )PORTLAND JOHN and JANE DOE 1

OFFICIALS; BRET BURTON; MULTNOMAH )

COUNTY; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and )JANE DOE DEPUTY SHERIFFS and MEDICAL)PERSONNEL; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and)JANE DOE SHERIFF'S OFFICE and OTHER )OFFICIALS; TRI-COUNTY METROPOLITAN )

TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT OF OREGON; )

and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE 1

NORTHWEST, INC.,

Defendants.

)

DEPOSITION OF

DAVID E. LILLEGAARD

Taken in behalf of Defendants

* * *

July 17, 2008

1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900

on

Shannon K. Krska, CSR- ....

court Reporter

40 0 Columbia, swte 140 Schrmtt &Lehmann, nc. 12 1 sw Morr~son t , s u ~ t e 50Vancouver, W A 98660 C O U R T R E P O R T E R S Portland, OR 97204

(360) 695 5554 (503) 223 4040Fax 13601 695-1737 www sireporting corn sl~nc@~westoffice et


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David E. Lillegaard, 7 / 1 7 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v . Humphreys, et al .

APPEARANCES:

For the Plaintiffs: MR. THOMAS M. STEENSONAttorney at Law8 1 5 S.W. Second, Suite 5 0 0

Portland, OR 9 7 2 0 4

For the Defendants MR. JAMES RICEHumphreys, Nice, and Attorney at LawCity of Portland: 1 2 2 1 S.W. Fourth, Suite 4 3 0


For the Defendants MS. SUSAN DUNAWAYBurton and Multnomah Attorney at LawCounty: 5 0 1 S.E. Hawthorne, Suite 5 0 2


For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACKAMR : Attorney at Law

1 2 1 1 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1 9 0 0Portland, OR 9 7 2 0 4

INDEXEXAMINATION BY:Mr. RiceMs. DunawayMs. BackMr. Steenson

Mr. Rice

PAGE NO.3 - 4 9

4 9 - 6 36 3 - 7 17 1 - 7 57 5 - 7 5

EXHIBITS

No. 3 0 2 Diagram 4 9

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PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, JULY 17, 2008

DAVID E. LILLEGAARD

called as a witness in behalf of the Defendants,

having first been sworn by the Reporter,

testifies as follows:

EXAMINATION

BY MR. RICE:

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Lillegaard. I 'm Jim

Rice. I work for the City of Portland. And we just

introduced ourselves to each other.

A. M-hm.

Q . You're here to have your deposition taken

today. Are you aware of that?

A. Yes.

Q. And have you ever had your deposition taken

before?

A. No.

Q. Have you ever testified in court before?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And what kind of a case was that,

matter was that?

A. Gosh, I barely remember. It was like 20

years ago.

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Q. Okay.

A. It was involving like some other thing that

I witnessed.

Q. You were a witness?

A. I was a witness, yeah.

Q. All right. Have you had a chance to talk to

anybody about what a deposition is?

A. Not really.

Q. Okay. It's a - -

A. Well, yes.

Q . Okay.

A. I talked to him this morning on the phone.

Q. Mr. Steenson?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. And did he generally go over with you - -

A. Yeah.

Q. - - what a deposition was?

A. Yes.

Q. So it's - -

A. But not before today.

Q. Okay. And it's an opportunity for lawyers

to ask perhaps a witness questions to determine what

they're aware of. Do you understand that?

A. Yes.

Q. And what I'm going to do is ask you

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1 questions and ask you to answer them out loud instead

2 of just nodding your head so the court reporter here

3 can take down the answer accurately.

4 A. Okay.

5 Q . Fair enough?

6 A. Fair enough.

7 Q . If I ask you a question that doesn't make

8 sense, you don't understand a word or it sounds

9 garbled, would you tell me and I 'll try to change the

10 wording around so it makes sense to you?

11 A . Yes.

12 Q . If I ask you a question and - - what I'm

13 going to ask you to do is wait for me to finish the

14 question before you respond, and that way only one of

15 us is talking at a time and that helps our court

16 reporter get everything down accurately.

17 A. Okay.

18 Q . Okay. If you, during this process, need to

19 take a break, get a glass of water, use the rest room

2 or something, all you have to do is finish answering

2 the question and then you just tell us you want to

22 take a break and we'll do that for you. Okay?

23 A. Okay.

2 Q . Do you - - are you on any medication or ill

2 or is - - lack of sleep, is there any reason you can't

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1 give us your best answers here today?

2 A . NO.

3 Q. If you're called as a witness if this matter

4 goes to trial down the road and you answered a

5 question here today, you answer it differently in

6 court, do you understand that any lawyer would have

7 the right to point that out to the jury?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. So it's important that I both

1 0 hopefully ask a clear question to you and you can

11 respond to it. All right?

1 2 A. All right.

1 3 Q. Good.

1 4 Would you tell us your full name, please?

15 A. David Eric Lillegaard.

1 6 Q . And, Mr. Lillegaard, have you gone by any

other names?

A. NO.

Q. What's your date of birth?

A.

Q. And where do you reside?

A. Portland, S.E. Seventh and Morrison.

Q. Okay. And what's the actual address there?

A.

2 5 Q. Okay. I don't know what's going to happen

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1 when this matter goes to trial, but if it is, we

2 usually subpoena someone, and it's nice to be able to

3 call that person to try and arrange for a time for

4 them to show up so they're not waiting around for a

5 long time.

6 A. M-hm.

7 Q. Is there a best number, a cell phone or

8 something that's the best number to try and reach you

9 at?

10 A . Yes, hold on.

11 Q. Maybe you can tell us what that is.

12 A .

13 Q . Okay. Thank you.

14 And how tall are you?

15 A. Sixone.

16 Q. Okay. And where were you born?

17 A. Portland.

18 Q . Okay. Did you grow up in Portland?

19 A . Yes.

2 0 Q . Did you get a chance to go to high school in

2 1 Portland?

22 A . Yes.

23 Q . Did you graduate from high school?

2 A. Yes.

2 Q . And which high school did you graduate from?



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A. Milwaukie High School.

Q. Following high school, did you have any

formal education?

A. No - - well, I went to beauty school.

Q. Okay. Well, there's different kinds of - -

A. Right, right.

Q. - - education and training you have. So you

went to become a hairstylist; is that right?

A. M-hm.

Q. Okay. And where did you go to school?

A. Milwaukie Beauty School.

Q. Okay. How long is that course of study?

A. About two years.

Q. When did you graduate from that program?

A. ' 9 5 , I think.

Q. Okay.

A. Yeah.

Q. A variety of occupations when you're done

with your schooling you somehow get registered with

the state. Is that true in your line of work?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Do you have to take a test to do

that?

A. M-hm.

Q. And is that put on by the State of Oregon?

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A. Yes.

Q. And do they issue a license?

A. M-hm.

Q. Do you currently have a license?

A. Yes.

Q. And what's the license in?

A. Barbering and hair dressing.

Q. Okay. Can you give me a summary of what

your work experience has been in the last five years?

A. Last five years? Well, the last three years

I was working at Rudy's in the Pearl District.

Q. What period of time was that?

A. That's from ' 9 5 (sic) till the present day.

Q. Till the present, okay.

A. And then prior to that I was living in

Philadelphia for a couple of years.

Q. Okay.

A. And I was not officially licensed for the

first year for a while, but I - - you know, I was doing

hair in my home.

Q. Okay. Kind of on the side?

A. Yeah, kind of on the side.

Q. So what year did you actually get your

license?

A. There?


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1 Q . Is this in Philadelphia you're speaking of?

2 A. In Philadelphia.

3 Q. I s e e .

4 A. I got my license in ninety - - I mean 2004.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. Something like that. I can't remember

7 exactly, to be honest with you.

8 Q. And then you moved back to Portland; is that

9 right?

10 A. Right.

11 Q. And have you been in Portland since that

12 time?

13 A . Yes.

14 Q. Living here at least?

15 A. M-hm.

16 Q . This incident happened in September of '06,

17 we're talking about Mr. Chasse today.

1 8 A. Right.

19 Q. At that time, did you need any sort of a

2 hearing aid or glasses, contact lenses, anything like

21 that?

22

23

24

25

A. No.

Q. Do you have any medical training?

A. NO.

Q. Any training in psychology?

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A. No.

Q. Any training in martial arts?

A. NO.

Q. Ever in the military?

A. No.

Q. How about a contact with law enforcement

officers, have you had any contact with the Portland

Police or any other law enforcement officers?

A. Ever?

Q. Yeah.

A. Yeah.

Q. And can you tell me what kind of contact

that's been?

A. 1998 - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - I got called by an officer to be

questioned about some money missing from a salon that

I managed at the time.

Q. Okay. So the police were making some sort

2 of an investigation?

2 1 A. Right.

22 Q. Is there anything about the police officers'

23 conduct at that time that you thought was

24 unprofessional or improper?

2 A. No.


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1 Q. Okay. How about any other incidents?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Have you ever been to the Swin - - Helen

4 Swindells apartment?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Do you know where that is?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Okay. This incident that we're going to

talk about today involved Mr. Chasse. Do you know

what I'm talking about?

A. NO.

Q. Okay. Did you witness the police officers

have an altercation with someone near Blue Hour in

September of 2006?

A. Hm-m - - well, I did witness the Chasse

incident in 2006.

Q. Did you?

A. Yeah.

Q. And that's what I'm asking you about.

A. Right, right.

Q. So you recall that incident?

A. I do remember that incident.

Q. All right. Had you ever seen or met

Mr. Chasse prior to that date?

A. No.


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1 Q . Okay. Did you have any contact with the

2 Chasse family?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Have you been interviewed about that

5 incident other than today?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And can you tell me who you've spoken to

8 about that incident?

9 A. A few people.

10 Q . Okay. I don't know if it's easier to do it

11 chronologically or - -

12 A. Yeah, I'm going to try to do it

13 chronologically. Of course I got interviewed a few

14 days later by the detectives.

15 Q . All right. And those are detectives from

16 the Portland Police Bureau?

17 A. M-hm.

18 Q . All right. Who else?

19 A. And then that week was kind of whirlwind. I

2 got interviewed by Willamette Week - -

2 1 Q . Okay.

2 A. - - and I think Portland Mercury, I could be

23 wrong. It might be another - - it might have been

2 another Willamette Week follow-up.

2 Q . All right.



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1 A . But I think it was Portland Mercury.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. I'm not certain.

4 And then the private investigator.

5 Q . All right.

6 A . I forgot his name.

7 Q. Anybody else?

8 A . Then most recently I did an interview for a

9 documentary being filmed called Alien Boy.

10 Q . Okay. And that's a movie that's being

11 filmed?

12 A . Yes.

13 Q . And when was that filming taking place?

14 A. Couple months - -

15 Q . When did it take place?

16 A . Couple months ago.

17 Q . Have you ever gotten a copy of the footage

18 that you - -

19 A . NO.

2 0 Q . - - provided?

21 A. Hrn-m.

22 Q . Sometimes when people work on a film or a

23 documentary they're either given a script or an

2 outline or something like that to follow. Were you

25 given something like that?



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1 5

A. No.

Q. So it was kind of a question-and-answer

format - -

A. M-hm.

Q . - - is that what it was?

A. M-hm.

Q. Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. In your life's experience, have you ever had

a family member or a friend or through work had

contact with someone who had a serious mental illness?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell us about that?

A. I had an uncle who committed suicide a

couple of years ago.

Q. Okay. And did he live here in the Portland

area when you were here?

A. This was when I was living in Philadelphia.

Q. Okay. Was he also in Philadelphia?

A. He was here in Portland.

Q. He was here?

A. Yeah.

Q. Do you know, did anyone ever tell you what

condition that your uncle suffered from?

A. It was depression.

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Q. Depression?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. Could you tell he was depressed?

A. Yeah.

Q. Any other interaction with seriously

mentally ill people?

A. I have an aunt also. My dad's mom - - I

mean, my dad - - I'm sorry, my dad's sister who is

paranoid schizophrenia.

Q. And is she here in Portland?

A. No. She lives in South Dakota.

Q. Okay. Do you - - have you had regular

contact with her?

A. Yes.

Q . And do you go visit her or does she come to

visit you?

A. I visited - - last time I saw her was three

years ago.

Q. Okay. And do you know whether or not she

takes medication?

A. She does.

Q. Have you ever been around when you were told

it was - - or you perceived she was not taking

medication?

A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. And was her - - could you describe her

behavior when she was not taking medication, just in a

general sense?

A. Delusional, paranoid, yeah.

Q. Were you ever around when your aunt was in

that condition and she had any contact with either law

enforcement or medical people or - -

A. NO.

Q. - - social workers, anything like that?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Did you ever see her become physical

with other people?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Aside from - -

A. I mean, not violent.

Q. And that's what I meant.

A. Yeah.

Q. I don't mean just touching or holding hands.

A. Right.

Q. I mean an altercation of some kind.

A. Right.

Q. And you have not seen that?

A. Never, no.

Q. You talked about talking to Mr. Steenson on

the phone today. Have you talked to any other lawyers


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about this incident?

A. No.

Q. Were you called before the grand jury?

A. NO.

Q. I believe the day in question when the

incident with Mr. Chasse took place was a Sunday.

Does that sound right to you?

A. I don't remember the day, but yeah, it

sound - - I mean, it must have been because I usually

take my lunch early on Sunday because of my schedule

that day so I was at lunch at about one. I usually

start at 11 so I was at lunch at about one.

Q. Okay. And were you working at Rudy's

Barbershop that day?

A. Yes.

Q. Is there a name - - I think of it as being

called a hairstylist, maybe that's not technically

right. Is that what you're called?

A. Yes.

Q. And you have customers that come in and

you - -

A. M-hm.

Q. - - work on them; is that correct?

A. Right.

Q. Do you sort of develop an outlook toward


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1 people's hair and style because of your job?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q . On that day, did you have any alcohol to

4 drink?

5 A . NO.

6 Q. Or were you on any prescribed medication?

A. NO.

Q. Do you have a recollection about what time

9 of the day it was you observed Mr. Chasse interacting

10 with the police?

11 A . I can't remember exactly the time of the

12 day.

13 Q. This incident happened many months ago

14 and - -

15 A. Yeah.

16 Q. - - there may be questions that I ask you

17 where you simply don't - - either never knew the answer

1 8 or no longer remember the answer.

19 A. Right, right.

2 Q . We appreciate that, too. So if you don't

21 recall or don't remember, just tell us that.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q . Very good.

2 Do you remember where you were when you

2 first saw Mr. Chasse?

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A. Yes.

Q. And where were you?

A. I was - - I had climbed up on the steps,

'Cause I saw the police. I didn't see Chasse right

away. I saw the police when I was in the middle of

the road walking back from Whole Foods.

Q. Okay. Had you gone to Whole Foods for

lunch?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So you're walking back from Whole

Foods?

A. Right, right.

Q. So you're at ground level on 13th at that

time - -

A. M-hm.

Q. - - is that where you are?

A. Yes.

Q. And you saw some police cars?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Anything about the police cars that

is out of the ordinary for you?

A. That they were there in the first place.

Q. Okay. Do you know how many there were?

A. How many police? No, not exactly. I mean,

I can guess, but no.


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1 Q. I would actually rather have you not guess.

2 If you know, tell us.

3 A. Okay.

4 Q. Were there flashing lights on or emergency

5 lights on?

6 A. Not that I remember. It was daytime, so - -

7 Q. Okay. And as you approached, you see the

8 police cars, what did you see?

9 A. I walked up the stairs on the balcony by the

1 0 business that I work at.

1 1 Q. All right.

1 2 A. And I got a vantage point just from above,

1 3 and that' s when I saw Chasse.

1 4 Q. Okay. When you went up the stairs to the

1 5 raised area there - -

1 6 A. Yeah.

1 7 Q. - - was there anyone else around that you

1 8 recognized?

1 9 A. A couple of my coworkers were sort of

2 peaking out. And I walked over by Blue Hour.

2 1 Q . Okay.

2 2 A. So yes, yes.

2 3 Q. And when you say people - -

2 A. The answer is yes.

2 5 Q. - - peaking out, you mean from inside the



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building outside?

A. Stepping outside and looking out a little

bit.

Q. And who were those people, if you recall?

A. Liz, Elizabeth; and Ann Stevenson - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - one of my other coworkers.

Q . All right. And when you walked up then you

walked somewhere on that raised platform; is that

right?

A. Yes.

Q. And where did you walk to?

A. I kind of moved around. I didn't walk

anywhere in general, but I moved around a little bit

to get different vantage points, so I walked over by

Blue Hour at one point.

Q. And once you're up there and either walking

towards Blue Hour - - or did you sort of stop between

the way?

A. Yeah. Between Wieden + Kennedy building and

Blue Hour. I was moving around, like I said, to get

different vantage points.

Q. And when you looked towards the area where

the officers were or Mr. Chasse was, what did you see?

A. I saw Chasse on the ground and I saw a bunch


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of people standing around him.

Q. And what kind of people or is there any

identification how you could tell us - -

A. Police - - police officers and ambulance

workers, like emergency workers.

Q. Okay. And when you looked at Mr. Chasse he

was on the ground. Was he lying on the ground - -

A. M-hm.

Q. - - is that right?

A. M-hm.

Q. Can you describe how he was lying on the

ground?

A. He was sort of - - kind of awkward. He was

kind of face down but on his side at the same time but

with his face kind of on the ground.

Q. Okay. Andso - -

A. And I saw - - like from his vantage point I

kind of saw his face.

Q. Would - -

A. Like I like saw his profile.

Q. Would his face have been toward you or

facing away from you?

A. Sort of like his profile from what I saw.

Q. And - -

A. And he was passed out.


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Q. Okay. We'll get to his condition later.

A. Yeah. Yeah, I ' m sorry.

Q . I'm not sure what you mean by profile. So

you're just seeing one side of his face - -

A. Yes.

Q . - - is that fair?

A. Yes.

Q . And is his face point - - if we took his nose

as sort of an area, is his nose toward the ground,

toward you, or away from you?

A. Kind of diagonally towards the ground.

Q. Okay. And as you looked at Mr. Chasse on

his side with his face in the way you've described it ,

could you tell whether or not he had any - - suffered

any injuries?

A. No.

Q . All right.

A. I mean, except for the blood on the ground,

so - -

Q. Okay. And where was the blood on the

ground?

A. By his face.

Q. All right. And was it directly beneath

where his nose would be or his mouth would be or was

it - -


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A. M-hm.

Q. - - off to one side?

A. It was right underneath his face, like he

was laying in it.

Q. All right. And is there a way for you

physically to describe how much blood there was?

A. I would say it was about six inches around,

just a small pool.

Q. Okay. And so it would be six inches across

like the diameter?

A. Right.

Q. From one edge of it to the other edge?

A. Yes.

Q. Was it mostly circular?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. You then also started to talk about

Mr. Chasse's other conditions that he had. Could you

tell whether or not he was conscious?

A. I can tell he was unconscious.

Q . Okay. And how could you tell that?

A. Because his eyes were closed. And I

remember from the different vantage points I was

trying to see if he was breathing. I couldn't tell.

Q. You couldn't tell?

A. I couldn't tell whether he was breathing or


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not.

Q. And you say his eyes were closed. Was it

his one eye or could you actually see both his eyes?

A. Both his eyes were closed from - - well, he

was laying down on one eye kind of, so, I mean, it was

obviously closed or open laying in the concrete, so - -

Q . So we're assuming one eye was closed?

A. Right.

Q . And you could see the other eye?

A. Right.

Q. And was the - - was he still?

A. Yes.

Q. Was there any movement at all?

A. NO.

Q . How long did you observe him in a condition

when he was still?

A. About - - oh, gosh, I don't remember exactly.

I don't know. I don't know exactly, sorry.

Q . When he was in that condition, were there

police officers or medics of some sort around him?

A. Yes.

Q. Sometimes when we look at a group of people

we can differentiate them somehow. And I'l l just

start by was there differences in clothing regarding

the people who were around Mr. Chasse?


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A. Yes.

Q. What do you recall about that?

A. I remember seeing police and what I, at the

time, assumed were security as well.

Q. Okay. What would make you say someone is

security?

A. They looked like the - - the Pearl District

security that work in the neighborhood.

Q. All right.

A. So I'm not sure how many were there. I

mean, it was pretty - - it was a small group, but it

was pretty like hectic.

Q. All right. And then could you differentiate

- - 1'11 call those law enforcement people. Were there

differences in their uniform colors?

A. Not that I remember.

Q. All right. And then was there another group

of uniforms that were different from law enforcement?

A. Yes. There were emergency workers.

Q. All right. Had you seen those emergency

workers other times downtown?

A. No.

Q. You'd never seen EMTs or other people?

A. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Q. Okay. So you have some sort of frame of


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reference to - -

A. Yeah.

Q. - - recognizing them?

A. Yes, definitely.

Q . And were the police officers, as you're

observing them when Mr. Chasse is still, doing

anything?

A. Standing around looking at him.

Q . Okay. And how about the emergency - - or the

medical workers, the emergency workers, were they

doing anything?

A. One - - the lady, there was a lady in the

group.

Q. All right. What was she doing?

A. She had some sort of monitor.

Q. All right.

A. And she was checking him.

Q . Was she standing up or sitting or kneeling

or how would you describe her posture?

A. She was changing positions. She would stand

up. She - - from what I remember, she had him hooked

up to some kind of monitor because I remember

wondering what the monitor was all about. I think it

was a heart monitor - -

Q. Okay.

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A. - - but I don't know.

Q. Okay.

A. And she was checking the monitor once in a

while.

Q. All right. Did you hear any conversation,

words that the police officers were saying around this

time?

A. No.

Q. How about any comments or conversation by

the EMT workers at this time?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Was - - and there was nothing going

back and forth that you could at least hear - -

A. NO.


And is Mr. Chasse making any noise during

this period of time?

A. No.

Q. Did Mr. Chassel s aying still ever change?

A. Yes.

Q. And what did you see or hear that led you to

that conclusion?

A. He became conscious again.

Q. All right. And how did he act when that

happened?


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1 A. Upset.

2 Q. Okay. And upset can mean a lot of things.

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q . Can you describe, in detail, what you

5 remember about that?

6 A. I remember him yelling, but it wasnl

7 making - - I couldn't understand exactly what he was

yelling. It was like garbled.

Q. All right. Was it loud or soft or how would

you describe it?

A. It was as loud as - - it was pretty loud. I

mean, not super loud. He wasn't screaming or

anything, but he was definitely yelling.

Q. All right. And could you make out actual

words?

A. No.

Q. All right. Were - - was anyone saying

anything back to him?

A. Not that I could recall.

Q. At this time, was he handcuffed?

A. Yes.

Q. What could you see regarding restraints or

handcuffing?

A. He had both his feet restrained and his

hands were restrained, and his feet and his hands were

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1 restrained together from the back.

2 Q. Okay. So his hands were behind him and they

3 were restrained; is that right?

4 A. Right.

5 Q. And was there a connection then between the

6 handcuffing and the feet?

7 A . Yes.

8 Q. All right. And how would you describe that

9 connection?

10 A . They were tied together by some device. I

11 don't - - I couldn't tell whether it was a rope or a

12 chain.

Q. Okay. And were - - was the attention by the

EMTs still ongoing when he was yelling like that?

A. From my frame of reference, when he was

yelling I couldn't really tell.

Q. Okay.

A. Yeah.

Q. Did you see the EMTs do anything other than

hooking him up with the device and doing whatever test

that was?

A. No, not at that point.

Q. Did you recall the EMTs doing anything other

than that test you've described with the machine?

A. No, I don't.


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1 Q. When the EMTs were working with Mr. Chasse,

2 did you see anyone else laying their hands on

3 Mr. Chasse or touching Mr. Chasse in any way?

4 A. I believe I saw an officer - - one of the

5 officers, I don't remember which one, get down and say

6 something to him or check on him. I couldn't tell

7 what he was saying. He kind of got down to get a

8 closer look at him.

9 Q. Okay. So he was hunched over?

10 A. Yeah.

11 Q. Is there anything about that officer that

12 you remember today that would help us identify who

13 that person was?

14 A. NO.

15 Q. Okay. So do the EMTs ultimately stop

16 working on Mr. Chasse or stop testing him?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Is that the next thing that happens?

19 A. Yes.

2 Q. Is there anything we've missed up to this

21 point?

A. No.

Q. Okay, all right.

A. I saw her put the machine away.

Q. And when she puts the machine away, did you

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1 see her do anything with the machine?

2 A. She just picked it up and walked away and I

3 didn't see the machine - - I think she might have put

4 it back in the ambulance, but at that point I wasn't

5 paying attention.

6 Q. All right. So she leaves the scene. And

7 you sort of stop focusing on her and look at other

things at that time?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. And what are you looking at at that time?

A. Looking at - - at that point in time I'm just

looking - - I think I walked back into the salon for

another minute - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - just 'cause I'm supposed to be working.

Q. All right. Checking in with the boss?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. Is there a manager at that place?

A. She is our sort of like - - she wasn't there

that - - no, there wasn't.

Q. Okay. So you just sort of check in?

A. Yeah.

Q. And then do you come back out again?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. How long do you think you were inside the



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3

building before you came out?

A. Less than ten seconds.

Q. Okay. You were just in and out - -

A. Yeah, yeah.


A. Like I said, I'm moving around a little bit

to get different vantage points. And when that was

wrapped up I walked - - when she put the machine away I

was kind of walking back into the shop.

Q. Okay.

A. I can play this out in my mind.

Q. Okay. Are you kind of curious about what's

going on?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you shocked about what you're seeing?

A. Very much - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - yeah.

Q. And what is it that you're shocked about?

A. That it's going on in the first place.

Q. Okay.

A. Because you don't see that every day in that

area of town.

Q. No.

Had you seen a similar incident to this in


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your life?

A. Never.

Q. All right. So you pop in just for a few

seconds?

A. Yeah.

Q. You come back out. What's the next thing

that you observe?

A. I do see them put him in the car - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - and drive away. Ad then it just ends

like - - and I see the lady with a bucket of water

pouring the water on the blood.

Q. Okay. Let's kind of just back up a little

bit.

A. I1msorry.

Q . We will get to that.

That's okay.

So did you see Mr. Chasse either standing up

or being lifted up off the ground?

A. Being lifted up.

Q. And who did that?

A. The officers.

Q. All right. Do you know how many officers

did that?

A. I think two.


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Q. Okay. Did you - - did you actually see them

do it?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall how they picked him up?

A. I couldn't tell how they grabbed. I mean, I

can't remember how they grabbed him.

Q. All right. And they carried him with his

entire body off the ground; is that right?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. And did you see where they took him

to?

A. In the back of the car.

Q. Okay. Did you see - -

A. The police car.

Q. Could you see the car that they actually put

him in from your vantage point?

A. Yes.

Q. And where was that car?

A. It was parked on the corner near where the

incident was happening.

Q. So - -

A. It was within probably - - maybe around the

corner, maybe on the corner, but within 20 feet from

where they were.

Q. So it would have been very close to the - -


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A. Yeah.

Q. - - intersection of 13th - -

A. Yes.

Q. - - and Everett; is that right?

A. Very close, yes.

Q. And would it be west of the intersection?

A. I can't remember.

Q. All right. Did you, I mean, actually see

him being placed in the car itself?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you describe, as the officers are

approaching the - - forgive me if I've asked this. How

many officers were carrying him?

A. I think two.

Q. Two.

And as the two officers are carrying

Mr. Chasse and they come to the car, how did

Mr. Chasse get into the vehicle itself?

A. I think they - - I think I remember them

placing him in.

Q. Okay. Did someone open the door, is the

door open? Do you remember any of that?

A. I think the door was open, yeah.

Q. Okay. And did they place him in what part

of the car?


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A.

Q.

A.

Q .

A.

Q

from the

A.

Q.

In the back.

In the back seat?

Yes.

Anything unusual about how that happened?

Hm-m.

Okay. Did you see them then step back away

car, the officers?

I don't remember seeing that.

Okay. Do you remember seeing the door

closing?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So I mean, typically the way I would

think of that happening was someone would stand back

and take the door and close the back door.

A. Okay.

Q. Is that kind of what happened?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. Anything unusual - -

A. That had to have happened. They can't close

the door on themselves.

Q. Do you actually remember that?

A. I do remember that. It's just like there's

certain things how I played it out in my mind is a

little - -

Q. All right. Was there anything unusual about


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3 9

1 the way he was either placed in the car or the way the

2 door was closed that you recall?

3 A. No.

4 Q. All right. Once he's in the back of the

5 car, what's the next thing that happens?

6 A. Everybody just disappeared.

7 Q. Okay.

8 A. They just drove away.

9 Q. So what I think you mean by that is - and

10 tell me if I ' m wrong - the police officers got back in

11 their car and they drove off - -

12 A. Right.

13 Q. - - is that right?

14 And the EMT people, they got in their

15 vehicles and they left?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. All right. But you also mentioned something

18 about a woman and a bucket that's in between there,

19 and I want to go back and cover that.

2 A. Yes.

21 Q. Can you tell me about that?

22 A. After the police were gone - -23 Q. Okay.

2 4 A. - - she came back and poured blood on the - -

25 with - - I think it looked like soapy water.



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4

1 Q . Okay. Was there more than one woman that

2 you saw who was an EMT or a police officer?

A. Not that I can remember.

Q. All right. So the woman took the soapy

5 water and a bucket and dumped it on the ground?

6 A. Right.

7 Q . Did she then get back in her vehicle and

8 1 ave

9 A . Yes.

10 Q . Were they all gone at that point?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q . Did you make any further investigation like

13 going out into the street, looking what happened,

14 anything like that?

15 A . NO.

16 Q. Did you go back to work then?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. As everyone is - - the police officers are

19 leaving, the medics are leaving, is there any

2 conversation that you can hear about what either the

21 police officers are saying or the medics are saying?

2 2 A. Absolutely not.

23 Q . And when Mr. Chasse is being carried to the

2 car, remind me if you've told me, where were you on

2 the raised platform?



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41

1 A. At that point I was between Blue Hour and

2 Wieden + Kennedy building.

3 Q . Okay.

4 A. There's that little area right there.

5 Q. How - - how big an area? I've been there but

I perhaps can't remember. How big an area is that?

A. That whole area?

Q . Yeah.

A. It's about a block long.

Q. Okay. And are you mid block at that point?

A. Closer to where Chasse was. I was about - -

from - - I'm trying to remember the street. I was more

by Blue Hour, but I was kind of at the very end of the

business towards my shop.

Q. Okay.

A. So there's like my - - my - - there's Dress

Code - - there's my business, Dress Code, the Wieden +

Kennedy building, and there's Blue Hour.

Q. Okay.

A. I was between Blue Hour and Wieden + Kennedy

building.

Q. All right. Is there anything during this

time when you're observing that's in your way, either

a car that's in your way or too tall of a person

that's in your way - -

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A. No.

Q. - - or did you have a clear view during this

time?

A. Yeah, clear view.

Q. All right. So as everyone's leaving you

don't hear the police officers saying anything; is

that right?

A. Right.

Q. And you don't hear the EMTs saying anything?

A. Right.

Q. Is there anyone else telling you anything

you didn' know?

A. Yes.

Q. And what are people telling you at that time

that you - - you did not, you know, witness or see?

A. My friend Luis told me that an officer said

to him that he was a known drug dealer or - -

Q. Okay. And who is Luis?

A. Not Luis, I 'm sorry, Jamie.

Q. Jamie?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. And who is Jamie?

A. He's one of the guys that works at Blue

Hour.

Q. Is this Jamie Marquez?


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4 3

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Before this incident, did you know

Mr. Marquez?

A. Not closely, no. I mean, I bumped into him

and was friendly with him when I saw him on the

street, but I didn't know him that well.

Q. Is this someone that just happens to work in

the general vicinity?

A. Right.

Q. You're not social friends with him?

A. I'm friends with him now.

Q . You're friends with him now?

A. Yeah.

Q. At that time, you were just people working

in the same basic geographic vicinity?

A. Yes.

Q. And have you become social friends with him

since then?

A. Yes.

Q. Does that have something to do with this

incident?

A. Yeah.

Q . And how did that come about?

A. We're both musicians and we talked about

that.


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David E . Lillegaard, 7/17/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al .

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1 Q . Okay. What kind of - - do you play

2 instruments or you're a vocalist or what?

3 A. Yeah, both.

4 Q . Both?

5 A. M-hm.

6 Q. Is there some kind of music you play?

7 A. Electronic music.

8 Q . And how about Mr. Marquez? Music's a pretty

9 broad field. Is there some sort of subset of music

10 that he's involved in?

11 A. He's more of a DJ.

12 Q. Okay. Do you work together?

13 A. No.

14 Q. All right. So Mr. Marquez talked to you

15 that evening. Did he say anything else to you?

16 A. That was it. I mean, we were like - - we

17 were both exchanging like this is unbelievable that

18 this is happening in the Pearl District.

19 Q . M-hm.

2 A. We were pretty surprised.

21 Q . At - - at this point in time - - I should

22 actually say, as you're observing you're talking it

23 was sort of a shocking experience; is that right?

2 A. Yeah.

25 Q . Sometimes when we're involved with something



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David E. Lillegaard, 7/17/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys , et al.

45

1 there's an excitement factor that happens to us just

2 from what we're observing.

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. Do you agree with that?

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. Was that sort of the state you were in?

7 A. No, I wasn't excited. I was more worried

8 Q. Worried. And tell me what you were worried

9 about.

10 A . Just about that guy

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. Yeah, James.

Q. And can you tell me what you were worried

about?

A. Well, it came - - 'cause when he was passed

out the reason why I was moving around and trying to

get a vantage point, I thought he was dead at that

point - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - because I wasn't getting - - I was trying

to see the monitor.

Q. Okay.

A. And I just wasn't seeing him breathing and

at that point I thought he was dead.

Q. And that's 'cause he was still?

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A. Yeah, yeah.

Q . All right.

A. And so I guess I was a little excited when

he woke up 'cause I was relieved that he didn't die,

but I was still kind of worried about him.

Q . Sure, yeah.

A. Yeah.

Q. All right. So you'd seen him be very

still - -

A. Yeah.

Q . - - and come to life, he's handcuffed and

he's taken away in a police car?

A. Yes.

Q . Is that what you're upset about?

A. NO.

Q . Okay. Are you upset just 'cause a human

being had been through something - -

A. Yeah.

Q. - - and obviously had had something physical

happen to them?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q . All right.

A. I mean, that's not a fun thing to see.

Q. Of course not.

When you were standing there at that point

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1 in time, did you see something that you thought a

2 police officer acted improperly?

3 A. I couldn't be a judgment on that. I mean - -

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. - - I don't know if I can be - - if I can

6 really judge that. The only thing that I thought was

7 awkward was that they were just standing around

8 looking at him.

9 Q. All right.

10 A. It just felt awkward.

11 Q. Sure.

12 Did Mr. Marquez say anything else to you

13 about what he claimed a police officer said to him?

14 A. That's all I remember him saying.

15 Q. I may have asked you this, and if I have you

16 can tell me. You observed some blood directly beneath

17 Mr. Chassers face on the ground; is that right?

18 A. Right.

19 Q. Could you see any other injuries on him?

2 A. NO.

2 1 Q. When you observed Mr. Chasse on the ground,

22 could - - did you ever get a direct look at his face or

23 was it always from a profile view?

2 A. When he lifted his head up the first time

25 when he was yelling.


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Q. This is when he stopped being still and - -

A. Right.

Q. - - became animated?

A. M-hm.

Q. And you looked at his face?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember anything about his face at

that time?

A. He was very upset.

Q. Okay. Any - - anything else about his

coloration or injuries, anything like that?

A. Nothing that stood out other than the fact

that he was really upset.

Q. Sure.

I've tried to go through this sort of

chronologically to make it easy for - -

A. Yeah.

Q . - - both of us as we're doing it. Is there

anything I've not talked to you about today that you

think's of significance that you observed?

A. Not that I can recall.

Q. Thank you, Mr. Lillegaard. That's all the

questions I have now. Maybe some of the other lawyers

will want to ask you something.

A. Thank you.


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4 9

1 MS. DUNAWAY: Could you mark that.

2 (DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 302 was marked for

3 identification.)

4 EXAMINATION

5 BY MS. DUNAWAY:

6 Q. You want to take a look at that.

7 I'm Susan Dunaway. I'm with the county.

8 A. Okay.

9 Q. Can you take a look at that and see if you

10 kind of generally recognize what that diagram, the

11 'intersection that it represents?

12 A. Okay, gotcha. M-hm, yes.

13 Q. Okay. On that diagram can you first mark

14 where you were when you first saw Mr. Chasse?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And mark it with a 1.

17 A. With a l?

18 Q. M-hm.

19 A. Let me make sure I have the right - -

2 Q. Yes.

21 MR. RICE: Is that green ink?

22 THE WITNESS: Yes.

23 MR. RICE: Green ink may not show up on a

2 4 xerox machine. Can we use a different color?

MS. DUNAWAY: Yeah.


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1 MR. RICE: You can use one of those pens.

2 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) So to give you a point of

3 reference, at the very bottom, that's the Blue Hour.

4 A. Right, right.

5 Q. Right, see that.

6 Okay.

7 A. Blue Hour. I - - these are the tables. I

8 was kind of - - when I first saw him I was back.

9 Q. Farther?

10 A. Further back.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. More towards Rudy's Barbershop, or like

13 actually there's a clothing store and at the time it

14 was like a museum/real estate office, museum slash

15 real estate office, so I was more coming up the stairs

16 from that side from that vantage point. That's when I

first saw him.

Q. From that side you have to go upstairs to be

up at the Blue Hour?

A. M-hm.

Q. Okay. And that's where you were when you

first saw Mr. Chasse?

A. Right.

Q. Were you on the street level or on the

2 5 stairs?


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1 A. I was on the stairs.

2 Q. On the stairs of - -

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q . Why don't you put a 1 with an arrow pointing

5 back in the direction that you were actually standing.

6 A. All right.

7 Q. Then could you put a No. 2 on where you were

at that point when you thought - - you first had the

thought that Mr. Chasse was unconscious.

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. And then just at the very end of your

testimony when Mr. Rice was asking you questions you

were talking about when Mr. Chasse reanimated, when he

became conscious again.

A. M-hm.

Q. Could you put a No. 3 on where you were?

A. I'm trying to think.

(Witness complied.

Q. Okay. Now, could you draw, as kind of like

a stick figure, where Mr. Chasse was lying. So, you

know, if you could do it with like his head and - -

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. - - something like that.

A. I'm not a very good artist.

Q. Neither am I.

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1 A. I believe it was right there.

2 Q. Okay. And could you put little circles

3 where you were seeing police officers standing?

4 A. I'm going to change this. It was closer to

5 there, I'm sorry. And I saw kind of that thing. I'm

6 not sure how many people were there.

7 Q . Okay.

8 A. I didn't count.

9 Q. All right. Thank you.

10 A. You're welcome.

11 Q. When Mr. Rice was asking you questions, you

12 said you were interviewed by a number of newspapers?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Did you happen to keep any of those

15 articles?

16 A . I - - my girlfriend did. No, I didn't.

1 7 Q. You didn't?

18 A. NO.

19 Q. You do not have them?

2 A. No.

2 Q . Okay. Did you read those articles?

22 A. I skimmed through them.

2 Q. Okay. And since you skimmed through those

2 articles that specifically mentioned you, have you

25 read anything in any publication or on the Internet in


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David E. Lil legaard, 7 / 1 7 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Humphreys , e t a l .

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1 regard to Mr . Chasse?

2 A. I - - repeat your question, I'm sorry.

Q. Since you skimmed the articles that

specifically mentioned you - -

A. Yes.

Q. - - have you read any articles in any

publications or on the Internet - -

A. Yes.

Q. - - in regard to Mr. Chasse?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. What have you read?

A. I've - - like I said, I didn't read full

articles on the line, but I've looked up Chasse. I

looked up the web site of the people doing the

documentary and talking about his life before he was

dead, before he died - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - SO - -

Q. Did you read any articles about this

particular case?

A. Not thoroughly, no. I just skimmed the

articles that I was in and I've seen a couple of - - I

saw it on the news a couple of times, but I never

really thoroughly read any one article.

Q. Okay. And I believe at some point there

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1 w ere p o l i c e r e p o r t s t h a t w ere p o s t e d on t h e I n t e r n e t .

2 Did you read - -

3 A . Yes.

4 Q . - - an y of t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t s ?

5 A . Yes.

6 Q. Okay. Do you remember which p o l i c e r e p o r t s

7 you read?

8 A . N o t e x a c t l y. I goog l ed my name. L ike i f

9 yo u Goog le my name James Cha ss e comes u p .

1 0 Q . H - m - m .

11 A . And t h a t ' s how I f o u n d o u t .

1 2 Q. Okay.

1 3 A . Yeah.

1 4 And I hav e re a d t h a t . I h av e r e a d t h e

1 5 p o l i c e r e p o r t from t h a t p o i n t .

1 6 Q . So you r e a d t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t ?

1 7 A . Yes.

1 8 Q. Okay. And d i d you have a chance t o rev iew

1 9 t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t p r i o r t o coming h e r e ?

2 0 A . J u s t from t h e on l i n e .

2 1 Q . On l i n e .

2 2 A . Yeah.

2 3 Q. And d i d you r e a d a ny of t h e o t h e r p o l i c e

2 4 r e p o r t s ?

2 5 A. No.

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1 Q . When Mr. Rice was asking you questions you

2 said that Jamie Marquez said that the police had told

3 him something about Mr. Chasse being a drug dealer.

4 A. Right.

5 Q . Okay. Was there anything else that, while

6 you're standing there, Jamie told you about what had

7 happened?

8 A. NO.

9 Q . Have you talked with Jamie Marquez since the

10 incident about what he saw?

11 A. Very briefly. He called me recently about

12 the documentary being filmed and said - - so I didn't

13 actually talk to him about that incident. I did talk

14 to him about the - - I'm sorry, about the documentary

15 being filmed.

16 Q . So did you talk to him before you went to be

17 interviewed by the people doing the documentary?

18 A. Yes. But about the documentary.

19 Q. Okay.

2 0 A. So it wasn't specifically about James

2 Chasse. It was just about the documentary.

22 Q . All right. I just wanted to make sure I

23 understand your testimony. When you saw Mr. Chasse

2 you came to the conclusion that he was unconscious

2 because he was lying still and his eyes were closed - -



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A. Yes.

Q. - - is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Was there any other thing that you

observed at the time that led you to believe that he

was unconscious?

A. No, other than he wasn't moving.

Q. He wasn't moving at - - he was lying still

and - -

A. I couldn't see him breathing.

Q. You could not see him breathing?

A. Right.

Q. Okay. What were you looking for that led

you to believe that he was not breathing?

A. I was looking at - - to see if his chest was

moving, to see if his stomach was moving.

Q. Okay.

A. Like very closely at that point. I was kind

of - - like I said, I was moving around, getting

different vantage points trying to see if there was

any sign of breathing.

Q. Okay. And from your vantage point, you did

not see his - - he was lying on his stomach at the

time; is that correct?

A. Right.


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Q. So what you're saying - -

A. And his chest was sort of forward. You know

what I mean? Like - -

Q. NO.

A. - - with his face sort of forward. His chest

was also diagonal. He wasn't like on his stomach,

'cause his - - the way he was tied was kind of awkward.

You know what I'm saying? So I saw kind of like part

of his chest.

Q. Okay. So he was not laying on his chest?

A. Kind of diagonally. Diagonally like one - -

this part of his chest was on the ground, the other

part wasn'

Q. So was he at a 45-degree angle?

A. Kind of, yeah.

Q. So from where you were standing, you were

actually - - then you were actually looking at his

chest?

A. Yes.

Q . You testified that all of a sudden he became

reanimated - -

A. M-hm.

Q. - - and then he started yelling; is that

right?

A. Yes.


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1 Q. When did you find out that Mr. Chasse had

2 died?

3 A. That evening.

4 Q. How? How did you find out?

5 A. On the news.

6 Q. On the news?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. When you saw that on the news, were you

9 surprised?

10 A. When they said that he - - he died I wasn't

11 sure it was him at first because I didn't connect the

12 two right away. But then it like all of a sudden hit

13 me so - - I'm sorry, repeat your question. I'm sorry.

14 Q. Oh, okay. Well, you testified that at some

15 point while you're watching this you actually thought

16 maybe he was dead; right?

17 A. Right.

18 Q. And then you were surprised that - -

19 A. M-hm.

2 Q . - - he wasn't dead?

2 1 A. Right.

22 Q. And so later on that evening you're watching

23 the news and then you find out he had died?

24 A. Yes.

2 Q. Were you surprised when you found out that



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1 he died later in the evening?

2 A. Yes. Among other things, but yes, I was

3 very surprised.

4 Q. Okay. While you were moving about along the

5 patio of the Blue Hour and trying to get a better

6 perspective, did you have any conversation with

7 anybody who was there?

A. While I was moving about? I did go up to

Jamie, I was like what's going on? And he was kind of

working that day, too, so we couldn't really talk.

He's like I don't know, man. And then it - - so not

while I was moving around. I didn't have like a long

conversation. I was just sort of what's going on,

this is crazy. And there was no real long exchange

regarding it.

Q. Okay. And none of the customers, you didn't

talk to - -

A. No.

Q. - - any of the customers?

A. Hm-m.

Q. Did you hear any of the conversations that

were going on around you?

A. NO.

Q. Had you ever seen anybody restrained that

way before?


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1 A. Yeah. I don't remember when, though. But I

2 have seen that done before. I don't - - I think it was

3 maybe on the news before.

4 Q. M-hm.

5 A. And I've seen people get arrested downtown,

6 you know, quite regularly, but very - - not very often

7 like that, not to that extent.

8 Q. Like what? Not very often like - -

9 A. I see drug busts once in a while - -

1 0 Q. M-hm.

1 1 A. - - a n d - -

1 2 Q. But not like that where - -

13 A. Not where they're restrained and laying down

14 like that.

1 5 Q. Okay. Now, you testified that you saw the

1 6 police officers carrying Mr. Chasse up to the car - -

1 7 A. M-hm.

1 8 Q. - - and that you thought that there were

1 9 maybe two?

2 0 A. Yes.

2 1 Q . So is it possible that there were more than

2 2 two?

23 A. Yes, it could have been two or three.

2 Q. Okay. So you just - - you're really not

2 5 sure?


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1 A. I'm not 10 0 percent. I do remember seeing

2 him being carried. I just - - you know, it was kind of

3 like confusing so I can't remember whether it was two

4 or three. But it is possible that it was two.

5 Q. Okay. At least two, and maybe more?

6 A. Right.

Q. Okay. Then you saw Mr. Chasse being put

into the back of the car?

A. Yes.

Q. Could you see what position Mr. Chasse was

in once he was in the car?

A. Not after they closed the door. I think - -

so no, my answer is no, I didn't see him after they

put him in the car.

Q . Had you ever seen Mr. Chasse before?

A. I've seen him walk by a few times before,

yeah. I recognized his face from the news and from

pictures, but I've never met him, but he's someone - -

Q . But you've seen him in the neighborhood?

A. I've seen him in the neighborhood. I

recognized him.

Q . You'd never spoken with him, though - -

A. No.

Q . - - or interacted with him?

A. No.


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1 Q . And do you know anybody who did know

2 Mr. Chasse?

3 A. Vaguely. A friend of mine who works at a

4 bar says he knew him. This friend of mine was a

5 musician from the '70s and '80s in Portland and he

6 knew him just for a little while, just briefly. And

7 his name was Carl. But he didn't - - he doesn't know

8 much about him. He just knew that he was a public - -

9 like he wrote for Zions.

10 Q. And do you know where - - what Carl's last

name is?

A. No, I don't, I'm sorry.

Q. Do you know where he works?

A. Yes. He works at Kelly's Olympian.

Q. What was your general impression of

Mr. Chasse when you would see him walking around the

neighborhood?

A. I didn't really have one.

Q. Not - - you didn't have - - hadn't formed

any - -

A. NO.

Q. - - impression?

A. Well, my - - kind of a hippy. He looked like

a hippy to me.

Q. Okay. When you saw him walking around the



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1 neighborhood having testified that you do have a

2 personal experience with people who have serious

3 mental illnesses, did it ever cross your mind that

4 this man looks like he probably has a mental illness?

5 A. No, not from what I 've seen. I mean, I've

6 had no conversations with him. I've just seen him

7 walk by, so - -

8 Q . That's all I have. Thank you.

9 A. All right.

10 EXAMINATION

11 BY MS. BACK:

12 Q . Hi.

13 A. Hi.

14 Q. We met out there. My name is Jean Back, and

15 I represent the ambulance company and the paramedics.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q . And so I'm more interested in what your

18 observations were of those folks and what they were

19 doing.

2 A. Okay.

2 1 Q . And one of the things I wanted to know is

2 whether you remember when the paramedics unit drove up

23 to the scene.

2 A. Do I remember them doing that?

25 Q. (Nods head.


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1 A . I don't remember them driving - - I didn't

2 see them drive up.

3 Q. So your - - you saw them when they were

4 already at the scene?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. And then what do you remember - - do

7 you remember what uniforms the paramedics were

wearing?

A. No.

Q . Do you remember - - I mean, you may have been

asked this, and so I do apologize if you have, but do

you remember folks that were standing around

Mr. Chasse that day having - - wearing different types

of clothes, types of uniforms?

A. There were different uniforms, but I - - I

couldn't tell - - I don't really know about that

business. I couldn't tell whether they were a private

company or not.

Q. Could you tell at all the difference between

the fire department people and the paramedic people - -

A . NO.

Q. - - the ambulance people?

Did some - - and so do you know how - - not

knowing what the difference is between these people,

do you know how many people were there that were

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the - - with the ambulance company?

A. Not exactly.

Q. Do you recall whether they were wearing - -

whether anyone, the lady that was treating him, was

wearing any gloves?

A. No, I don't remember that.

Q. You do recall that she had a machine hooked

up and - -

A. Yeah.

Q . - - was looking at this machine?

A. M-hm.

Q. And do you recall whether she ever - - have

you ever had your pulse taken before where someone

puts a cuff around your arm and they blow it up and

then listen to your pulse?

A. Yeah, I don't - - honestly I don't remember

seeing that on his arm. I do know he was hooked up to

a monitor, but I don't know how.

Q . Do you know where - - you don't remember

where the lead to the monitor - -

A. No, I don't.

Q. - - came from?

So it could have been hooked up on a cuff on

his arm, but you don't - -

A. Right. I don't remember. Actually from my


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vantage point I - - I don't know. I mean, I' m sorry - -

I mean, I don't know.

Q. That's okay. You can only testify about

what you can remember.

A. Yeah.

Q. And we're not interested in guesses and - -

A. Right, right.

Q. So we do appreciate you coming here today

and helping us out, so - -

Do you recall whether - - what his - - the

color of Mr. Chasse's skin looked like when you were

looking at him?

A. He looked pretty pale.

Q. Looked pretty pale?

A. Yeah.

Q. Was there a difference in - - when you think

that he was unconscious during the period of time - -

how long was that, do you think, that he - - he was

unconscious?

A. It couldn't have been more than 15 minutes

of - - from when I saw him to when he woke up. I think

it was about ten minutes, but I 'm just guessing.

Q. And how much of that 15 minutes or ten

minutes do you think he wasn't breathing?

A. I don't know.


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Q. How - - how - - what - - when you said that you

were looking at his - - you could - - you were looking

to see whether his chest was expanding with air and to

see whether he was breathing, can you tell us what

period of time you think that, by your observations,

he - - he wasn't breathing?

A. I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

Q. I'm sorry, it might have been a confusing

question. I think that you previously testified that

you had looked - - you didn't think he was breathing

because you had looked at his chest or his stomach

and - -

A. Right.

Q. - - and it didn't appear that he was

breathing. My question is: How long a period of time

did you spend looking at his chest and stomach and - -

and that you didn't think he was breathing, what was

the time period?

A. Long enough to be worried. Probably

about - - no more than ten minutes.

Q. Okay. So you thought that - -

A. I don't know exactly, but no more than ten

minutes.

Q. Okay. And so you thought that perhaps he

wasn't breathing for a period of time of ten minutes?


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A. Yeah.

Q. Okay.

A. No more than that.

Q. And did you see Mr. Chasse before - - before

the paramedics were there?

A. No.

Q. Okay. So, again, you saw - -

A. I mean before - -

Q. Before the ambulance was there.

A. I didn't see him until after he was passed

out.

Q. Okay. And after the female paramedic was

there?

A. Right.

Q. You didn't see the female paramedic come

onto the scene?

A. No.

Q. Did you see that machine that he was hooked

up to, was that in a black bag?

A. I - - when I saw it, it looked like a big

monitor. I didn't see a bag that it was in.

Q. Okay.

A. I couldn't tell.

Q. Did you see a backpack that may have

belonged to Mr. Chasse anywhere on the scene?

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David E. Lillegaard, 7/17/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al .

A. No.

Q. Okay. And when you saw that Mr. Chasse

started moving again - -

A. M-hm.

Q. - - do you remember at all whether anybody

had done any sort of medical test on him just prior to

him starting to move again?

A. No.

Q. Did you see anyone poke him or try and get

some blood for any tests?

A. No.

Q. Do you have any information about what

the - - the medics or the paramedics might have seen

before they got to the - - whether they had any

information about what occurred before they got to the

scene?

A. I'm sorry, could you repeat?

Q. Do you know, do you have any information

about what the paramedics - - whether they knew about

what happened before they got to the scene?

A. I don't.

Q. Did you - - since you were able to see whenhe wasn't - - when you think he wasn't breathing, were

you able to then see the rise and fall of his chest

after he reanimated?


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A. Yes.

Q. Were you able to count his respirations at

any point in time?

A. No, no.

Q. And you didn't hear any conversations

between any of the officers or the paramedics?

A. No.

Q. Did you observe whether Mr. Chasse was

favoring any body part?

A. I - - (shakes head.)

Q. Did he appear to act like any part of his

body was in pain?

A. I couldn't tell.

Q. Was he moaning at all?

A. He was making garbled sounds.

Q. Okay. And do you remember, as you sit here

today, whether he said any words?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Did you remember, when you talked to

the police, whether you told them, just initially

after this accident, whether he said any actual words?

Do you remember him saying anything?

A. And I'm only acting - - when I - - I couldn't

hear any words.

Q. Okay.


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A. He was interacting with the police, but I

couldn't hear any words from my point.

Q. The person who you saw wash the blood with

the soapy water off the street, was that the same

person that you saw was checking the monitor when - -

A. Yes.

Q . - - he was hooked up to a monitor?

And what - - can you tell me what that

person, what color hair the person who was washing the

blood off the street had?

A. I think she had kind of shoulder length

blond hair.

Q. And you don't remember what she was wearing?

A. I believe she was wearing a white shirt,

from what I remember.

(2. Okay.

A. Maybe a white shirt.

Q . Okay. I don't think I have any more

questions. I really appreciate you coming here and

helping us out.

A. You're welcome.

EXAM INAT ON

BY MR. STEENSON:

Q . It looks like, from this police report, that

Detective Courtney with the Portland Police Bureau

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interviewed you four or five days after Chasse died.

Is that about right?

A. That sounds right, yeah.

Q. He reports that you told him that you saw an

officer nudge subject - -

A. Yes.

Q. - - with his foot on his shoulder or side.

A. M-hm.

Q. Was that during the time when you thought

Mr. Chasse might be dead?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember whether the officer was

wearing a blue uniform or a green uniform?

A. It was a Portland Police officer.

Q. Okay. Do you remember whether he had a

baseball cap on or not?

A. No.

Q. Did that officer or any other officers do

the same sort of nudging with his foot or any other

officer's foot, more than one?

A. Not that I saw.

Q. According to this report, you told the

detective that when Mr. Chasse came to or whatever

happened and he woke up and started yelling or

screaming, that he said something to the effect, it's


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David E. Lil legaard, 7 / 1 7 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al .

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1 quoted here, let me up, end quote.

2 A. Okay.

3 Q . Is that possibly something you heard or can

4 you recall?

5 A. I don't recall. I - -

6 Q . Okay.

A. It is possible.

Q . Okay.

A. But it was garbled.

Q . All right. Could it have been help me or

don't beat me, do you know?

A. To be honest with you, it could have been

something that at that point I thought he might have

said, but I don't remember clearly - -

Q. Okay.

A. - - exactly the words.

Q. When you got a chance to see Mr. C hassers

face when he turned up and started screaming and

whatever he was saying that was garbled, you said he

was - - he looked to be upset. Is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. In your opinion, did he look to be scared at

that time?

A. No. I think he was confused and upset.

Q. Okay.



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David E. Li l legaard, 7 / 1 7 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Humphreys , e t a l .

A. Like disoriented.

Q. When you saw Mr. Chasse walking around, was

it always in the Pearl District?

A. NO.

Q. Where else?

A. No. I mean, I remember him being from

Portland. I used to lived in Old Town.

Q. Okay.

A. And I 've seen him walk by Old Town - -

Q . All right.

A. - - a few times. Not many times, just a few

times.

Q. Sure.

Any - - anyplace else in Portland you ever

saw him walk?

A. I think I saw him by the library once.

Q. Up on Tenth?

A. Yeah.

Q. Did you ever see him causing any problems;

screaming, getting in fights, causing any - - any

issues?

A. No.

Q. Was he always alone?

A. Yeah.

Q. And by - - when you say he looked like a

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hippy, do you mean like long hair?

A. Long hair, beard, yeah.

Q. Other than what Mr. Marquez told you that an

officer had said about Mr. Chasse being a known drug

dealer, did anyone else say anything else that night

about drugs related to anything and Mr. Chasse?

A. No.

Q. That's all I have. Thank you.

FURTHER EXAMINATION

BY MR. RICE:

Q. Mr. Lillegaard, just a follow-up.

Mr. Steenson asked you about a nudge by the

officer

A. M-hm.

Q. Was this some sort of an assaultive kick or

more of a - -

A. No.

Q. - - a t a p ?

A. It was a tap.

Q. That's all I have. Thank you.

A. All right.

Q. Thank you for coming in here.

MS. DUNAWAY: Thank you.

(The deposition concluded at 3 : 0 5 PM.)


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1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2 STATE OF WASHINGTON )) ss.

3 COUNTY OF CLARK )

4 I, Shannon K. Krska, a Certified Shorthand

5 Reporter for Oregon, do hereby certify that, pursuant

6 to stipulation of counsel for the respective parties

7 hereinbefore set forth, DAVID E. LILLEGAARD personally

8 appeared before me at the time and place set forth in

9 the caption hereof; that at said time and place I

10 reported in Stenotype all testimony adduced and other

11 oral proceedings had in the foregoing matter; that

12 thereafter my notes were reduced to typewriting under

13 my direction; and that the foregoing transcript, pages

14 3 to 7 5 , both inclusive, constitutes a full, true and

15 accurate record of all such testimony adduced and oral

16 proceedings had, and of the whole thereof

17 Witness my hand and CSR stamp at Vancouver,

18 Washington, this 1st day of August, 2008.

1 9

2 0

2 1 Shannon K Krska

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