research.center@thehenryford.org · www.thehenryford.org
From the Owen W. Bombard interviews series, 1951-1961 Accession 65
Interview conducted: August 1952
Transcript digitized by staff of Benson Ford Research Center: November 2011
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ft t e n s @ i o f
« 1» 8 K X & 2 0 S I I S X 1
Fart Motor Gwm®W Aroolrfto Qrmi History Seetiet*
August, 3552
fheee Km&e&mmem mm the result of an I n t e r v i e w vlth M r . 2e®*tadt* by M r . 'Oven 3oi<£«ml an a@yi@«i*er 15, 1951, at Dearborn ,
T M 8 internet? was held uaiey the auspices of th* Oral He*
tery See«Un of the tat Mater Coapany Archives.
fa? iaftayeftawMr** fueaiioiii law b«en emitted ffcam tbe as*
cotait. lite questioning was prim.rily its the f&m of topics suggested
to Mr. Soarlein coneeraiHg wh ich he have soae iuti m t e
knowledg®, So editorial ineertione hiev© been aade other t han the
brief spn#ei* of th* 4 a w's a c t i v i t i e s am the index.
ffea 3*i«PM§§ o f the narretive i s e n t i r e l y that of the amor,
l a has rsvieved aad comictad the attamaertpt aad by his s i g n a t u r e he*
Icar mMimmA t b a t i t i s a correct mm M » re^atsceaces.
Thds uraoir i s depo^.ited i a iijc Fora Ik/cor Ccg niisy ArcMvos
w i t h tfee. uB^ratandix^ that i t isay 1 » wed by quali^iad individual®
i s accordance w i t h accepted archival practice as sdainistered by t h e
Archivist.
foolasJser Hand, Bouft
i i i
fool and Die Work at tha Ford Motor Company , 16
Return to G e r a a n y . . . . . . . . . . • • * . « • « . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . » < . * • . 29
Creating tha Ford V-8. 32
Th© Electrical Departa»at and Boater Contracts. U5
Henry Ford'e rhlloaophy of Politica and Race 61
Bdael Ford aad the Ford Motor Company 68
Evolution of the Ford Tost Program. . . .««•• • • . . . . . . . . . . . . fk
Ford Motor Ce^aoy Ssctasarlag .•• .•• .• . . • . . . ••• .• . 90 Aa Electron Microscope*...•••**..............••••....». 131
Aviation Ejqperiffieatatioa, World War II , . ikl
Engineering after World War I I . . . . 179 Reorganisation, 19^*5•••••••••«••«••»•••••»•••»»••••••«• 19W Benry Ford, tba M a n . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . • • . . 212
v
1 was tarn mem Stuttgart* Seraaay* 1 had ay first
ajftttofttoA in OHOMngr* I vent through grafe school, tdg> school, and along with Mjgn •0000¼ * technieal M#i school, lifter high school I attended i pfestteeship for few years, ©©aim along with tecliiJLe&l school»
It was eowpajwry* of wm»o* to eater an «ppr«Me««tttp, That seans a oonfenet was slgoifi iterehy you were ©Minted to stay with this agpreaMeesMii for four years. Yaw father had to pay for that «^«ti««»Mi* iOdteMisJbt »ft«r the i eoad y*ssrs i f th© ap- jwtal&ee** ^wfmmmm wm mU»tmtaiey$ he got a snail eospaaaMoa per week*
If the ftaAbav « M not «10« to w f « i t , 1¾© «toft» would, pay. If the father was able 1» p«r# he had to pay. In sort cases
the fitter* paid tor i t . ffet fee i w not very large* « course, the training was $t&fee rigid ootii. fs?o» the
stendfoiat of ItesrMsg and tie aovol training that went along with it* Ha. ww© forced to go to religious services at least twice a weak.
Our own religion i@teBrt»d what servlne m would so to. It mm s«^rvi«id. If tho state throeo}. tiae shop in which
;/ou received your traltting, and then- i t was left up to the ownsr of the shop, le wm » « w i & l e for the h©y» fh©t mm trm to 193a* a i s was continued ualaljerrufted la spite of the war.
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Bwisg l i e s * psawi of tiie ispaat of the
wm «as quite eevere, ^ t t e t t t e r i y iarlae the second year tfhea we
ware involved ia actual iwr «oa*. We had to do mtaeX war work
along «i tb our imbtiag* ©si laqaast on as Mat qplt* aever©,, psr*
tleu&arly aiace 1 had four Irothers i a the war* I was iateteated
i a doing the toast for the country tbat I could*
ve felt the $£aeh of the StogMjte blockado %ttite strongly,
aad when Geraaa^ went iato euhmrlne warfare, that created quite a
hit of iotas*** over there, te tboegffc that tbat would end the var.
We rea0.i!®ed tfeet that mm a threat *© Jte«iea aad would p^hsaOy
bring the» into the war. for tbat reason there lias soae hesitancy,
as X aaa&li 1 % to enforce the suiw^iae warfare, because th© feelings
betwa#» the Bteited States ssad Serssiay were slwa^a very good.
tefedowk to fee peo§&e over ttax*. *&m i*A «S«aya felt that the
AMirtaiaw wadA sot eater iato the nar* Hbea they catered iato the
war, the sural* eaa& co»a:.drably over there, ©to feeling vae that
A^ariea could aot aaa fust enough. I t was felt that the suh»«in@
warfare would k i l l the tbiag quickly, When the drtm on the liues
Sail**, i t was felt them that i t mm going out fast.
ttere V M & feeling against tbe regixae tfruu Stat ftoaUag
la the part of the eouatry from which I coos, the southern part, was
sa#t&rala«2r etramg* Sbet p u t of tlw country sever was toso eifthuei-
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sstie about tte aj^inintratloa. 33t£# awe- or less a reaction,
againat tte Pruamiiii »7etfev <as> o* tt* ntsJw under the fugliKP of H * ms®. It m tt* urn*® of tovttssjftwg. tte «sj*»»
asjaftettttsja wei* refmoasibie directly to the M s g . *I&B people had
way littles peart i n claaosing thee* Mpms^te^ime. Siey fcere
e^o©4iit©4»
At that Wm Wmm *•» a »fe«g *eeling of a pswmijig social­
istic pattern. W aietrict vac a o n conservative, ton found tna
s o c i a l i s t toufcottta* aore t i «1» tatasttift* c a r t e r 3 . MM&ssjrt
i s quite- « bessvy iatattirttil ©eater, Sere m sawm* large zmpmiea
S » king • »* *# t* sp«A# god, ana . t a r c r ths Mm
misted mm did. Tbe king « s S J K W & W. Everybody liked nira treaan-
dously* Tm mMmA mmmmmt mm&'t aush timgtoi of in this nart etf the cotmtry. In spite of that, the people backed the aray strongly.
It wm M l tbat no smttsr Unit ' i ^ ejsjstttiaui m m , thsy would back their aooBtyy f u l l y .
& .!#»?• «rt 100 tt» S»A ftstiOew «M tmttls* ffe had U t t l e fat*. Of couree, mqrttdflg ratiouad. x 4am* t rw—rtiiiT
pitatoeti «gtt sas§ias%. 1¾¾¾ fart of the loot w aoatSqr ayntJaetio. lis
ted sprtiwtte dtesiie, and m t mm a farltf*. %S iftttcSaf h e m ware l ing , I recall ttm W appronticeehip.
ffftlMA to stuaft at ®m 0*el0Ofe la the awning and sorts usttl alowa 0¼¾¾¾¾ at m#t. H§ did &«pe pwso* at ten o'eloeJs for fifteen atawtts, am. tor and a half Dor tiaasr, tartta** $mm at four ofelook
Dor ft lwok» and at sswem oHOaoft an ter for lw»o3% and tbaa back, to waodc again. S»t N I »1»' daps » * sssaaeed to 1mm m^m tom»
Hair* Sort van not the cw*Qi««sf ^ AieooMp training, the oust©®* aiy a pwnttooshif training ms eight hours a dfty and few hours on aatwday, from eight to M M on Satawdaps.
As im m school hmmp m faeBdapt ond fttdopi we only
baft a half a day of school* fta* was cowled en teo^ tdta» «sr
tfrttel«f*«v*»A* the M f e * how* l*t* m pit in tbaa net® Awotod to
Ha- 8¾¾¾¾ stationary eagiaos for powsr plmits 9 crude o i l
•30gis®s aad ssamitim* The m r did sot dnnge the xjroc©dure of the lafpwtteoshit at a l l . Stacr **>*• *o i t yp. &» *aur
yo*r teres ne *st* It m felt that tow mam «ew aeeoaaasy to give
the a«e«§ajy «*psoi«Mtt whieli iw needed to «abl® m to gvadiMfta*
Vhan tha ©imieellery elisaipi. and tho Raiser fled to Holland,
it vaa a terrific dis pp intrasnt* Ttm morale mak oo»ld«mhly. fbsy wsre dipped at that point. I wouldn't sagr that the how front hetr sd the fle»«ft Magi I WM3E& ratber call it 1151;¾; 00-1:,¾, iiorse sense* £» atllttagr felt ttwt tbvjr ©«M tanp cm going and Just drwr trm tha hone firant# Just dwsr last 6rap of »©oA out of thea, butt tho hens front
1I»MBJB« m mm t t e to call ft «mtt» 2ha base front «as fvlsa^pointeJ. % the irindietivotsess of
the peacs. There ms a lot of corr^-srsation aboi.it Wiieon'o r-'ourteec
Points, aa I recall. nan/ fta&t t m thay me® not f a i r , partttadaartar
tba fact that, taaasqf * » fe»©4 of bar ooloataa* That van the biggest
point that aae Aataftaft over. The peopl* fait that the League of
WsMm» sa»aat® wm jaat mother m y of stemming the QamiSB colonise.
Tbay realised that it. W JttSt a ffeatib to xaake that possibU.
1 cmapleted «f apprenticeship training in 1919- The war v%s
ow? than. 1 for asotbar- ha l f year i n the place tfham X ha4
M m i U y , »^*« *® awayafctag «•» h r*«a «p* anA psopl* fan
to iirsetfesa, so ho <•**& mUl mmm star thay» tm a m m ®
until ho could find s t o o l s people, t told h i s that 1 wanted to go on
M t f u a a M m yow «•/ &mst9 could yow stay?* Shaft ftttad t*aj»t
into tha aa«aaaai taaaaa* tha schools wswt toKtam fee*
I atayad for m a t t e hal f yaar and then catered colleap,
^preati^ecbip diplom plue tho oertlficerte for technical training vara
reouirerl for autry to eolSftpu $has* ms «1» a tost required for
aoftartaaj ©©Hags. It ©o«@fst«d s ^ t t y of fraction! and thaoroticaS,
kaoa&sdga. This eolio^s wm open to anyone, and i t «as supported fcy tha atefci. i t was alallar t© a state tattvavaltar hero.
X also signed for electrical mmmmmm* X im
St */ the council hut 1 wasted t© see i t throu^ so I
Mb vith i t , hut tha lab
training. In eleetrieal sagtaeeriBg; there laws sears 1 # »
l a taechiUHcal engineering there « • ease physic© lab courses, text
that n t a l l , l a electrical eia#3^@rias m itad physics plug the alee-
Hf mmm*» m*m&wi m& mmm were pmttiMgiy all.
That mads itaelf felt after the f i r s t year and a half of college.
m wm i » fair stats the fi r s t yeas- sad a half, hut after that i t was
W «4*aT tertian* MaWftatoa* i t feat ttted to ate a* *U»«S#l g# I io*pt
oa going. X a M * a * to gat «sr«u# w a l l tat last ttoafr^oattani of &
% Stoat*»when, so to speak, too oottoa f a l l out caaspletely.
ft> titer too last half a pwsr that 1 spent in the
I worked as a laWUwatt* ;pra.fcata apprentices sijailar to
was » # » » 0 @ 0 «»3rt» ft taau 8te& ma the
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pay with taxes dsdantet, ant you could proliatOy *is/ a pair of
H M I * # and ttafe m » « U . «h» m a y val»ise fat* eftmipii raiicejay. Uaay enanged froa dey to day* 13m steams were only open i n the
for 9*sj»js*ag« la *m smmmm mm
*
% 1te tint you .got yow salary ti® prices had, Jw^d, a l ­
though yow salary n Ld not $m* The salary ess® after the prices
in ths |p5|pp*it JSRSSJ aoefc 'to
gtsfcly, but |f tiie prices
Saturday you osxMft't toy evyttfeg wMfe i t . Ism couM J*»t barely
exist. That aayt i&amB&BL the »tts that 1 waa im collet®.
«»d i t ©ot pro^seiv-ely
two tte Social Darocr&ts » 1 vratooa otber©.
strife I H H a Mdbttaw Also unions eoae t»,
tbe ear, but tliey so*S|y cae* Into power after the
an* sresping for en
i , ami that i n wnen M M of ttece soap *sx orators stated out
along with i t .
•7«
mm a breach of tat latioa&l S o c i a H e t l e
amy*/ ** **** I « k 1 *m»f * * M » m»* the liMr ussnts m i af ter X l e f t , but they «are <pite strong at th* tiae that
I «*» mm vmm.
With conditions m they existed X juat couldn't see any
flatela i n M a l f * 1 l«a* fafla*w*a t^aiim-:', «fW ft«ftf»$ it»s
* mm the youngest on* i a the ftamUy aad X hated to law
I tel. «««4 « 1st *%OMt t t » I f t t t a * §iml*8 mft «mtt mm* t% ma mm geJUlm country. S a t ia th* nay thmt everybody fe l t over there* X
decided to leave for sitter Inland, or mm Halted States, I t was aot
quite clear i a my smai* I feel too mmmgly about going to
ftiqgiaa* because f w n what m beard conditions «st>« f t too good
almm*. i t ma fel t that «he IfeLmm States m e beam. I f a
hiEsself and worked, he had a chance to get ahead;
X had d i i c u l t y getting mmm raay t o o t h e r for i
X had a eloae fries*, mho had goas ttms«# the afpwtioesh% and
ecboul with m , mad he had mm reXaiivsie over here. He and I
mp&r vhartiter w «>m«id gm ©r aot. He said that he would write to his
relat ives and find mtt «a*§ about i t* He did so, aad they invited us
t*m m mm* fit ecrape=i up every penny we had, plus sons assistance from
my Sfitefeivwi aad Aram M a relative© mm here, X® mm* to get
hare, am amdavit W tota signed tey atmt* wiio VUB a citiasn
In tbe ndta* Stages. This f r i»d*» relatives were cisisena of the
tfettod Stata*. » a y It»t4 i a &o©ia» anA tbay law* good mrn^a. to
taut to* respcaslDility for bat* of u*. Ship ma&t m w* tfiUtavat
g i t over here, 1» QBSJM ratJ:*»r fast, aaft left- on Awpsst 4, 3 ® ¾
anil arrival la Wm 5 » OA August 1?, 19¾¾.
% didn't k m i i l m mm gulag **> do here. % just hoped that v* couli f i l t e r back into our froSpsstioti. 0* coarse, we tanr that
no Had to learn the langua^a a ttttit* a m . l a had learned eon® i a
eehool, Hot that wm mvutloUX* ft* didn ' t specially i n that, par­
ticularly as sngiaoere. tie d idn ' t taw nfeat «e we getting into.
f l u m mm htm, m& M M A * » s i s ter out with M»
f i r s t to tUaft » 3* ftar M s * *bey i M f ind o»l for M» tut* days after
we lm# laaa&wl. ISsase relatives of M a m s n i t .Si too good financial
e*a***l*m fjittmp} they owned mm bonnes and s© on.
Qs® fourth day 1*3* .lady went out with as, and we canvassed
the shops around Brooklyn. She f i r s t and second vara failures, and
that was a M t demoralizing to as, last va iMMjf% on going* Us eaw to the t h i r d fttwy whielt vat th« Xct j Island Machine w# Pattern Shop em
Sana Street. We ®i8»d for a Je* tiawe. The owe? @mOd tali- a l i t t l e
mmm* He taw m t I cfM» f»o» M tlawe* ami this lady ted t o l d M a
too* 1¾ a l i t t l e Osrsssn to s© and aafesd. aa> several question®
•9-
to tsaft mm m*t i «m&t « 9 * is html 1 » m * $.75 «a few* a m
At mm mm mmy avJdwj «as«i^L*» tmm
amlm* m «ft* ami*** « 1 mm» bote <»^0mnr» and
eiiX^s- Ttiey wmS® Uie for t m metta** ftor m * o i l
upafeaixa iii m * mmmnt sihop. 2ba matinm- <Ol imm to m» |lm*trjr
«nl m l>e ssaeM^d aad processed. X a s tetrad as * to o r iU warn in ®mm mmm mi tap tto» -mm mm
imm m* myt. C* mmm, ft ma osim mmimm mm, i t m * » j m > mAtwmmmm.wm« %%m»tsi&m**, fmtms grand, « M mm* my amirftSift: wtmttwt.
X myfe on 1*¾¾¾¾ t&era. Ia drtllittjf th®se castings you
bsvs to storpaa your d r i l l mmy oac® in a m*3*> X .Jtust ftmVt ten
aw amav- var* m X took ma d r i l l out, nest over to tbt grijjder aad
how to sharpen »y OWB t r i l l * Be 3mm* at mt d r i l l aad said,
x mm m
m i f ay fw»d « 1 1 a l a w ^ of mm> and tma.ywi # d
tap t ^ f f T
1 told She favmm* "tfty H i t sake a i a j i t i g a**®® and pit fSmm* a* mm mM wmm mA da i t % mmmmt" la bad
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twrer htwrd 'of a tapping flxtura* I t was Just a mrnXL shop, Ee
talked to the owner, Mr, Kramer, about i t . Be came to as end talked
i n German as aueh as he eoaU* trying to find out n i l about -mis. Is
wanted 1» know how ansa i t would cost, I told M a that i t eould be
lands in a day. Is wondered i f I eould draw, and 1 said that I could,
lie wanted to tanr if. I eouM mOm Mm m drawing of tba thing, i s was
& l i t t l e skeptical of the whole thing. He didn't have too ouch nancy
to spend en tooling and so forth.
1 aade the drawing at hoae that night ant showed i t to .hia
the next aomlng. He said* 'Hell, X don't know i f we have anybody here that can aake that,"
I said, "I can aake i t for you." 1» said, "Bow long would i t taker I saM # "A day,"
Be hesitated a l i t t l e aad then he let ae make i t . I got i t
aade In a day, and we p i t tbat fixture) on 'the d r i l l press, Our pro­
duction wast up km or 900 par cent with aueh lee® effort. It's Just e staple l i t t le gadget*
from then on* tilings tjeoaa® aore interesting. A short wnile later he naked m to take over tbe foreaanehip to replace the foresen
that he bad. Be wasn't qiiita the mm that he wanted end he wasn't on
the Job, Be just went on a binge once In s -while. aeftveUy X told him that I didn't feel tbat 1 could take over this foawsmsolp because
of tbe iMi&wm difference, and these other people that vers working
in there «auian*t fool that tbey mere going to listen to mo as foreaen.
Bo Insisted. Weil, 1 didn't take It at tbat liotaont. X aaid
tbat 1 needed nor® schooling in tbe language. 1 bad already started
attending evening school and 1 discontinued reading Oeraan altogether.
1 Just road English papers, particularly tha Bay York govs and the
pictures and captions under thea.
Two mm®m after this hs^ening, 1 hesitantly took the fore-
sanahip over. X worked along vl«h tho three outers of th® shop, and
it worked out s H right. There aaa a little rasoatiaaat at firet, bat
i t worked oat all right.
I asked hiia to take on bettor work. X didn't like tMs
boiler business that ho had in there* W*a ve iswtallod the oil burners,
«e had to crawl inside of the f ireboxee with l6(> pounds of steam up,
.All thay did was pull the f ire out, but they kept the steam pressure up,
so i t had' to bo done quick, so tho stew treasure wouldn't drop. Us
bad to crawl in through ducts and so form* We made out a l l right, and 1 asked him to take on batter work, say die work or tool work.
Once to a while sons ii abator cane in afao had mm idea and had tho hacking of soiceons else to finance: him to work out patterns
for hla. Be vast out and looked for hotter work* One day he case In
and aaid that he had an ia<juiry from the teeriean ted Bulfoor Cospany
of Loue Island* coneerning asking lattery box dies for automobile
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1*ttsria»« Mr. Wxmmv mtmA m, "GosQA m mm mmmm H*» that!"
1 eaid, "Sea, «a ©an « t e i t a l t t the aacMnery that we
nam nere*
I didn't want to be MM saasooaiala for the .fuot&tioa, be*
cause 1 didn't know eoocsjb about prices end ao forth .
eerfeala jsriea, and v» got the 1¾¾ two days later, wMeh aounded a l i t t l e
uueplelous to aa. Hevei-tbelees^ we e^awtad out and aade the f i r s t die and
got i t -dome i n tarn, but we didn't aake a penny oa i t . Fred Xreatr mm
wary dajafpafteftta* He didn't aay directly that he wouldn't want this
kind of mm* but he was aore .interested in wor* that he knew aore about.
Zt wasn't aoro than a waak later that we got another iao^ry
froa th© Aserienii lard Rubber §i»®«ny to stake two aore. die® for aotor*
cycle btviteries, Sy that tiae I had otwterwed tte ofemtlona end had a
l i t t l e B O X * «qpr4a»a* on tbe 4*0* I aafeoft M s to 1st ae opofte i t ,
m& then he ahOwM oho©* i t* ana i f bo agreed on i t , weH, okay.
altaatly U0m for the aeawJar ooaa tbaa the f i r s t ones, l a said, nCb, we ' l l n o w .get- tbat .web**1
X asAd* *lfciU, aand i t i n . Xf you don't get i t , aotbtsg lost**
& aaat i t .1% and fovea later we-got th© job* tbay
wanted ua to aake two of tbote. On those we aade asaey* Proa then on
he waa arrbimsiastic about getting aore of tfcta work, »M i t worked in
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He RXBO get ft 40b from am investor who loade an. o i l feiUfag
*ouia cUg itself ixu 1% ma ajttXt* an lafrHiftttBg job. 4®% was
not a contract} i t mm Just a t&as aad material Seal. fbere mm eomiga
aosey behtigd i t i f at could do i t .
9he whole tMag. WfM. out. %e«f*4ftilly at thia shop. Shey
vera so free* to ae* tatty Just tool m ia lib* oa* ttf tt» family. X
was out to th* Kranere* cottage aad horao oa week ends. Be let ae nee
his wmommm* It w just like inane, I was just like la beam, they
1 kept om gems « U 1 1 £ & 0:f course, X s t i l l had the urge
to get hack isto ay old busiasoc of e ^ t o e r i s g agate. 1 vaated to
keep om going i a that and particular^ muted to Jo&a the Ford Hetser
Coapeay. 1 bat read ,^1¾ a hit about i t , ptrticularly ©heat Mr. Ford.
1» bad read that be bui l t bosas .for his m^loyma. 1 read this ia
Qmcmm* «* ia i l * * ® three years. «hea I was 1» lew York, X
read m$m about 1% aad. flit awe of the iaafej* e%«sr» Oiar there isbna
you read a book, you von-iar, i s i t true #r is i t mm Kara, from talk*
•St£s ^ 40¾¾¾¾¾¾¾ ^ y f e 81 ¾ 915¾¾¾¾¾ ^p^ft^O^^^fti®^ 36 (8¾¾ ¾¾¾¾¾ sft tfa Kfpe5|J|jj '@3 S& SsBCa s eOsjHS 3L* $ § P ^ ^ '
a a n s*aaaa*eatf*i afataj* of it.. tag* urged ae on so aagb ®mm* I Hasted to get t© Detroit.
Stssbsr o » w to get iato the M e i that I was u-aiaad for, eat
masher two wm to get to the Ford Motor CoB^aay. X told Fred
that X wanted to leave. Is tried to disoo^age mf but bo said that
i f X wanted to l a m that i t was a H M#it, that I f X didn't 111»
i t out there X eonld always cos* back.
X le f t Sew lotH i n the hagSantag of February, 1926. « 1
that X had i s Kind was oaaAag to Bataralt and i s ^ t i g e t i i i g the po»~
n i b l l i t i ec out here and toeing i f X eould get into eagiaeertng hero*
I didn't dMUace what X was doing i n low York. X fe l t rather ungrate*
ful , because tbaae peor.lt> bad helped ao to got along and X fe l t a
l i t t l e gailtsr about Imfag «sem, «U8oua> X had ay m desires to
satisfy.
trod Kroner was «®ry understanding about i t and ati l ! i s
i.i^refcf«iaiu.-: about i t * We etill ©awsspwt, and all three brothers
with their hoys ware up here last year to v i s i t us. They were very
happy that i t turned out the way i t did.
X waa very disappointed ia the view ttm* X got first* It
mm a drub February asratisg when X was coaxaa out of the Michigan
Central Depot to a Baker streetcar. It looked awful. X must admit
that X waa tiaeonragod* MunaUy the f i r s t thing -to to was to hunt
ia> a room* X got a mm m qariagaaU* $mmm and tenor Highway.
X got a room there which was close to the Bongo plant.
Oa Vohruary 16* I want out to the oagOopraat office oat
MX*er SoaA looking for a Job with Ford Jtotor Ctta»aiB/« thay aaid that
:;hesy w i eloeei £ar te«|l@ry and tank th*/ w s a » t Mrijag; anybody
tra£L4a*t. Mrs aeb©iF» I mmt to Cadillac* soft they ear* bJ34a*:
Y M M W I I O - «10 they hired as as a dataller in th© Emdissertiia Deoartea&nt.
I stayed there fta* three aastbs, hoping that the ford Motor
daaja*/ woiild omx w agate* S aflat in close eestseet aft* **e«* 3he
Job at Cadillac w rather ms&stemm-* Balff oi* ta» ve dtaaH
baa* anything t » do, and X Just d i d a H lite i t , probably beetm I
had Ford, i a ay M M .
X want out to Ford again and asked for- a job in cnf/inesring,
a*m M i d , *&* you know anybody l a engtoMriiigf 9
I said, *H®.W
aaici, "Well, tibaft there's m chance to - a t into engineer*
log, hut we have positions open for tool and die aaloers.0 3Ms thing
tone.
to get tab* engicosring aaaaaaUgr* aagaa&laae**
1 took a Jib as a M i as* i t s w0m *»* via an* | a the gfwin»wf t o o l roon uid.ch was a brand, new tocjl roon est Gate k. wh&re thss
new Chwieal AW* MgtaHurgie^. Laboratory i s a w . Brow was. th® su»er«*
3¾¾ ir f ^B3W^^ sa^ to be else* 1 vest to teeHerd, and Hay
1
-16-
wa started out thsr-s naming oaygooa dies. X me doing
regular tool sattwr'n ma*. X wafts Mm tm the s t w t e r ©one, the
oegper soil©. Stay were igudlte complicated dies* SUtefie
di ae xawaYom axitm a Mt of wla1^»»KS@ matt repair» That, was titat
f&Fet JBOW
Iota* om am «H6 M a t out t© set tip d ie t , ife haft to
adjust mm a t the j laee o f oymmtlom.* User® w ©am die .« actually
tamam w r e line® Mes %Sm& ap — to mate a laaoamt u n c o held the
gammrmtor to tbs engine oo a Model f a l t e r . Batt pwtiettXar bracket
wan amSe of theme t i w a & H * for three operation, m t-hought that that Ha* a l i t t l e susljer&cw. 1¾!® eouM a l l he done & die. We mt gprntod ttifff M M to Qlalaav .jsai be amid that he wouM me what,
ha &s*m m* m atdm*t Sat» I f t iny aouU perait us to sake a eosMsa*
tiom d ie , or a grogWMimtw Ate ve eaUod i t .
•fe got pemisslem to »ate «MI w * i t had to a» t© th® super-
i ^ e a t a t . aiA th® etraarlate&demt w u l d no to the Tool X3esi«a fiesart*
aamt« X hel tew a*at i t mm UBS«F B i l l Piooh tbma. X had mmat heard
of Car l la te taam» % got- p e ^ ^ w i m , and they ssn drafts®*® down ta
aake sketches of the idea. Us sad® W s 4*e f and i t i m t e t out beautiful.
i f tamrm u s a ehsmee t o i o t«a«emt*mtt to tls® ajgisseeri.^ laboratory out
mm* i l l too <aM» *a» yam w a r aajto&y «awof w
g^Hj there again tbat old !*6© you aaar x mm
«4T«
tea* 1 ditto11, and l a said, "Well,, there1 o ao chance." So X kept
NP l a t e r traaaf ex-re-l, c«id ve .got
by tbe Mat of XavJUt Low. X anted bis about i t . Be s a M ,
t l a n i tbay do borrow aaa ftm bora* Xf you get out there and
mm bow worn you cam do, ssybe tb®y»XA keep yoa out there. I ' U
^wt y©» a note to ths ss8$op§e®& of f iea . Sab* i t down Wmm aad
1 want down and ibo«#i* *»** i t my .j*e* another one of
tJodnga that wold probably be «ss«etta». M l , a weal, later
X got a call to go to Dearborn. Of coarse, tbat wm a big day.
«» osw « t bare and .fan* Mr. Becker i n tbe
B» eleo beadXad ths ens>loys»nt a t tbat tiae. X*ter on, Mr. Carl Aradt
mm *ajr, picked m up and took w over to tb« Sieet mm. ate*, xt i xiabt out here i a the mam whew tba engine bstt*ft-o» m
mm* ®»t aas tba aaat Metal £'1-¾*. Shay bad a speedboat down at the lower end of the bnildlns
for Mr. Edml ford and am© tbe tli^mx* plant wfelem Hr. asmy
flaw. i M a was right to tbe awrtli of tbe S»©t Metal stay,
end of tba- building m a am eatperisamm oar portion
f t f ^ r f y and mum Fords. Hwy did
«b* aisle, way down to
Sfetal jSwyN tEhe n i t end was need far the atrpOteass end
and fixtures .Mr fenildiag engine ssmmts for tte trt* abfa*. m this work «10 doe® iii bore, f&a§ the sheet
tta* sheet aaatfaajk, uate* the direction of Carl Maet, aa* aael3jr about dD or 90 aft* coat ;Sr. ferd*s own private expsri-
7» ar» J ord ana aStMMA aaeb of "fibs tiae* Hben J #irst
ia, X dH»*t see Mr. yord at am*
Suet tMtt mm mm*% m ©loaed atesa* It i
iHKiH any m i l s axwaaf* It ma •84*¾ ©gjesju
that i t wis Mr. Ford's domain. I was sot aware of this at the 1 jflias joined Carl Ji®!dfc*
When I saw the alaae, I ear ftbBt i t was. a sheet, metal shop
and I knev nothing about the ifexs&ag of sheet laetal and so forth and wasn't interested i a i t to begin atefe* I wwlwed i f there wasn't a mistake amoe so** place - X naked « » 1 ftmdt i f there was a aaMdQtfUfcr af a alstabe* X said that X was emmosed to eons out here as a tool
and die natasr* Be amid* "aa* that's & H rlsht. He need tool® and i l ea
Carl Aradt was a little asenmtvie. 1 » was hard to
end •» form, le had. a net atodj «bat«» an i tog w to it, **t ten fan why a* wanted aaartttag that w-
tt* want «, tool » 4 mSsmt* Tiwm i s no »&eiasferataiittag afecait i t . 1
1 said, "Is that jaat * taaigewsry 4®¾?8
a§ sa id , **So, it*« art taejaaaaQr* ton**© going to *
103¾¾, Bavav&alaaa, I W i t ui ¾' miiid tMt aose day sy day vould
», i t was getting a&aaar* Aoyaay, X mm herei that vas tha vain
for th® t r i - s» tor . tts
.one. Stat was i s Bsees&er, 300$. Xt w a s for wing motors. Xt me Just
would cover that tubular strnetwe. Xt was aaae o f ehroas Kolybd«nusi
t.ubing, veti**, and l a d to ha carefully handled and stressed for velds.
After tbat he asked m to a waai i tt^mlar »ngi,?> *ount
f s r the nvKibcr one f l iwar ship vhioh then vas already built and had
flown* hut i t had a wooden engine aooart on i t . they wanted to
i t to a tubular engine mount. H i l s was tbe mm that had tbe
igm**4&&m* engine l a i t . Ǥ aade that v* and iwrtiOlad i t , and that
ww ajrttfag olipeer and eioawto ite&t w» h M i n ate** He get i a ©nntset
with Harry Brooks and Otto Eoppen and w e got along wonderful,
Ste work on that fUvmt shit *»• rtsftfc i a thy Sngimsi
isg Building. Aa finr as X know when I eons out bore, Otto Koppsm was tfea
designer of the je*> and he «*rri#d i t th5?@»gh. Otto Eepseti ta* Sany
Brooks vrorkad «Xs»«iy together, As far M X l m r f Stery &oste tea
M M ao«£aaor2a«; traittiaf • 1» w pretty X«feJte@M« Sbey mm
ffe» oMofly tor f t ,
X don't who c-lec wesi»l OR i t . Jlaay Baltfe was around tlaww* but JU&w Smith vm a » w i wreaywiwe Is those days, v/bera
thare was am lasfeoiefeile to ha tried out or iteg® tiie;/- u p las tailing
* MtUo to 0 ear, flamy aafttli wm liaaa. * was Mr* Ford'a sj@* an*. X aamvfc whether bo bad oylM»g to do mta, the de»l©i, 4tXthmJ#t he
©iSJjt hate nate «i®p«t*oai bete m l these. X couldn't say far esrt&in
alaftiaar -felmt ~mm a© or ami* 15K oaly os»« tbast 1 l w them mm CmrX
J u i t ay 8te«y Stoifcm ami. 01*0
J^jfijji 3* 0a%j l »avj||. :Jm fe ¾¾¾¾ feifeSJSS " S e m fe U- ¾¾¾¾¾ -¾¾¾¾? ¾ sma j J vKHSSMa*- a afcBt amwawSpJa Wfl jj
desired and bad teo now. a# f i r s t job tbat ws got was to afte tbe
tubular angina aaaat to replete the «@@te m^m aaaat. Us baft to
M i * m a ehmit§e@ 0» the laatfaaaut panel. 1¾ iamtaUaa a sew altimeter
0» i t . Xt bad a difformt imago than too original one.
from there on, we vemt aaam and forth \mtmam wlous sheet
aamiaark, making 44»% mad a fixture imm and tfamrm and what haws you.
w f M n w atop mm tafeoo out of hose wad we wit TOtwmeft for #slbe
a WM3#. JiamUy, «w day Otto aoaparn 0 « wound, m& be told ae tbat
they mm in the pmses of denying matter H i ¥ w plane which ms
si^pcest to be a tubular eoaatruetlam of the fue»iaa»« Xt mm m »U» tmaalar ®mm%mmtim sseceft the olags*
m mM that be wwM mm to haw m b u i l d the fuselage and la ter oa f i t 1*« vhole snip. At that tiao aa got elosaJy «e~
fttsSated, end i t seaaed to cUok. Ve built tbe teUp! and a am
by 10» naae of Bate 1 BIJUigr covered th© wtagn. Ss© wings 'ware built over i s mm f a t t e n ebop wfctoa ws titan under tin* dij-ectiou of Bexasaa
BalaMMU a a wings wewt of wooden oonstmietioa with fetate over the© and cohered witb dope, fbe fusalags was also covered with fabric and
dope*
Tbat sbtp ww tattooed to rmo&m a twow^idasder engine oa*
signed by tbe Ford Motor Coapeny. Ks§>t wae tbe ana Harold Hicks wortssd
©nt. I t taw a t w o ^ S i a i e r , ItortaHEiwa boreofower engine.
M Esper erne to oa i t i ^ s , beo»m be was tbe plane jaecMnie iwar at the a i rport . Be i w t a l l i t d Id© engine &nd l i d the engine worti,
and we bail* uo tb@ a J r p t e e ever baa*.
ffta engine ran rough at ftret. ISsare were eoae relnfbroa**
mots put l a the mat , but i t «w then d e t e c t e d tbat tbere mm mm
Soberest -vlteatian yeriofta t» tbe angina alao. An opposed, two-<:yliiidey
mgim $M m®m bwd to balance.
9am ware soaa obexes Mde on tbe engine mount. M I recall i t , tbete vara two struts pat i n to tab* c m of tbe t a n p o . d o eagiae m a t as it wm designed waa Just a s trai#it type. To tab® care of
-¾¾!¾ b a n to bma §©a© diagonals too.
ffaa angina aVaavH awaja a* tbe ay*** of 3*800 r # ^ i . wMeb i t
aaatt i t mm to fatt throttle. mm**& mem yaa eaa*t • Say mm «80 »va*a» aa »va*a* eased
oil through «K» nags, particuXariy vita
fne sMp ma conpleted then* aad we installed the lanfia end :«^pi»at aa* i t W twit f&gan. atecy Brooke did aU th© teat flying, 1 need t© go ewt ©a Sights with Broohe hot not flights. »i weed to tab* m mb fm & ride. He Haw that little
m mm m mm earn af flat laager eat out fate other side. e t e entered 3» the mm B. trophy mmm in H@6 sad SIB?. Be
to as ami, etna* this lit t l e fU-rwer flane, aad eome dean and set £t heaide a his trl*«i»t©rf jeep In that, g# up, and loop the tri-»otor. Be aa* the first am that leered the tri-mtor.
Vhea this at* atsahfe* the dirtei'hle, was hare, he loaned areaad the djirlgifrle until the peo$&e in &a dirigible get seared stiff. Beaaajjhml aa* lasa nt«i the IwaaaajtaaV* Be was scared, stiff.
Gut at the heat raws he used to tate this little piaas and fellow th«? hoato alon$c. so taader tine Wile Isle bridsse **t^ sane nut the
Cfess tine when ve had the taadrad fft.'ME autaaiafhil© races est
at the Fair ironed, i t had iraiaed before the races started,
tba l i t t l e flirvmr ship out there on ejftSMt oa a platfor®.
to start. Harry bad the flivver ship brought down. He took i t up it errat the rasa track mn
X Zm&m Mr. Ford objected to a l l of theae aGro^atic
if hut he juet wulda'x aay no, definitely to Barry. Be
the thing ami fly i t om; to hit; hone in Biiateejaaa aad set i t
wmmm and fan KtXe Boat. Be was a real darsdevil.
While X mm stiJJ, watfcSa* on the mater two tttvaa* ship.,
X aictiJw'Oy recall that X had a l i t t le hmoket -to sake. X ©ti l l had
not yet seen Mr. Ford. X had to do sans f i l i n g , so- X stand up hare
a* m hoaoh filing a w , aad a i l of a mMm eowibedy joked aa. I
ad await, and there w Mr. Ford. I aaasSy ooHapeed.
la aaM, "Here's a nam who know© how to f i l e , mm® did ym
X aaM, "X leaned what x was « m j w n e i , fhere i
put em heiag to f i l e straight mA. to he able to sake i t
He *fhAt*« the ft**, tfter* do *BK eojae ires*"
X aaM»
I told W™-
m Mid, *$ai*iv ia the wrong pi&ye then, areaH yenf®
X » OS** then that X pf@leMy ataOaVt l a t « * i
X said, I that 1¾ £» the msmig hut it. mmm ;
I tew to 91 end U t a the almlm ttirough to gat back into X*» Willie to do i t . I t mmm tbat you have ti
ta gat into asgiMrtag.*'
I said, '•fell.*
l a said, is assart by cutoff?"
X' told him, t ' s tha losmtism of tha M a t e whan the a d »
Bs s*M, You're right, tm m had aaa BOX Miller in
Building 33 toBomv, and he'll have a job for you." (There wm as
oM shanty there.) Ba eaJA, "ran baring tlia Jo* up here, aad t*U he
Mid x«n see you and ten you what to do with i t . " X want down there, and B i l l Miller had a hex with & lot of
parts Ires a 3aoA«l steam engine. Xt was a
oat of those eld en^aw weed in ferry
-S5-
1 brought I t bank, and mm day Hr. -fwWl atqaee* by,
and be said, *Sae«e9» a lot of parts sineing. Sb* engine parts caae
2 M oee*&av4. « * » • ' • M M M«*©ry behind i t . % weajt ta> aaas* tt
built uj? end rtn»4i«. Cn yen do that?"
I said*
1 started vorfeiag i t . Of ©oars©, we didn't I a n sissy
Tlsere was oae l i t t l e latbe out thewa. It mm a wood lstha
e*aav 'we used that marine aad tbe d r i l l press sad started
we 4t4eH baws patterns aad oaetinga for p&rbs-
for tbe buso* wMcli origisallsf* IM a w s t e
tte wood ww in wty poor oonittioai i t waa e n rotted away. I said,
•nfowldaH I t be better i f we'd put a east iron base under i t t I t m&&
«ae* longer.1*
i t to Bgfag M: aad Bfeb, lamllj, and they'll » k a a eaat&aj** fbat waa
tbe only easting tbat we isftda on i t* fbe rest wan a l l tnaclitce
t e ^ f l m «tea«itig at thjtc l i t t l e wood lathe and
aaiging Hit ^orornor battii «sft tbe bmc;,ets for tbda l i t t le onglao. Mr.
Ford 4uet ba^aaai to ems aronnd end mid , "mint are you
I ««10,. *Vmmmm aatt***
Se said, **yow eaa*t sal® a ball on tbe wood lathe,"
X bad one mm mm$y* m X showed i t to Mo. m m±a,
11mM, X«U be defied! Sot «i bavo this oae." m p i t i t ta Ma
soekat « K walied off i*th i t ,
1¾¾ aaxt m>mim *b*y brougbt l a a brsaaa. M r Xalte. Xt
a little aetalvorkiag let be. Of coursa, tbat vas vono«rful. In
tea t p t ^ ^ j tbe Aaat Metal aboa aaa » M i Jtaet tbe 1 ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ * - of -Hbe
'^aildia^ to tbe west waiJU 'Ht t a n sratfar well afewwi yitb the -Mb.
X Km Jost ajaattig a l i t t l e pressure gaxp* for tbat ea-iae. X waa
sitting tbiwe one day engravix^ tea dial for tats gang*, la e m and
ia ^mde^d bow X ae* doing* ** 1» i M s * l a a s s t fieee of
stow -pipe. Iter? mm- Ms l e n t t would --one tea ant hit too p%e,
I*d Jisap. Jar. Hast saM, "what ate yoa 4ntfa*t*
X said, "1½ Jwt laaJttiig * «mga aad jwet f a t fbaV
iag «a> t b a
m seM, "S&at's a book of a place to do tMs Mad of we**.
It*a too nolfiy bora, iea't it? Xon go to tba Haalo Park Shop, Star*
you f*ai»b w tM© aagtsa, yoa so mm tiaws.* It asked a» i f I ©©eld §»«tgs a aodsl steaa eagtise, a two-'
eyliavfcr, « 4 « aajajtaa. I f®M# "See.*
Bs said, *lEew<» but X wast tbat a l i t t le different than tbe
com-sBticnml eogiiift. X*d lite to tea i t r m t o a p n i and taate."
He gaw aa tte' aite of tbe bosa imd #trs!ai be iiwbs&* Sa
•ST-
didn't mi a® my m M M i t , a» mm tat* m m^m &%. iii e*ary aatail, mm th® aaiaab-oaav ffeaa tewi to reverse and
a iwfeo -fee eoajeaaate for tiie IcscaUon, In mme0m » stosa aagiae,. csrtalB aimoaltaaa aio oasouiite»da It* a aatta difficult to Mt
eoat to i t i a* va® tooting aa al l tate tisn. la aald* *I wafe i t coim>oa i and tm&lss^ fit sure » . X
mat e w y part. «1 It to mttk MM a fsll-fiiaad engine. X e^Uatera 3ag§id ait* woods X wit It tesulatad, aad X a i t a oa
He ga^' ass tit* alma of tea oore sad stroke lie
l 9 TBBT ym. a* ta ti» aaal* Park Shop and
i t up. X«U aa atowd to mm it."
ami nade at «a» MaaXo &•* aaaa ia i^rtmwy, 1930- X bad learn ia 'tbe
of M* yaa aaaa*
X% fa «a» aaa tta* 1» 1m lawaafealimy m»* I
lfea> f\aa§. aaa- aiiy fmsaaaaaaaa 1¾ fsaaa* It bad to aa £aet It m s sate of to tte sliojs aad etoaeJpd up cm it. mm
Mr. Fort aets»Xly wanted m to m W there and ins ta l l i t .
I»11 n e w forget that day. He vas standing down below with Mrs.
Ford. » » asroMteet and 1 vent v* the tower on the sosffoM. She
old scaffold van weaving fro* site to s i te, and X vas .hanging on.
for dear l ife ' . He shonted to us, and ttaa» Ford laughed.
In Hay, 1930, sy wife reMnded me that It vas *y parents*
golden wadding aaniversary i n Juue, and X should go over there. Sha
was 1* a feslJy vay at that t ins, and I didn't feel that I should
leave, hut ahe insisted that X go. X vent to see Mr. ford, and I
ashed his i f X eould take off for shout six weeks. He ashed m what for, aad I told hia. la salt, "Sas, go ahead. Take a H the tiae you
want* You aaet aja over there. As a Matter of fnet, 1*31 give you
a letter to the Qeraan branch in case you need scue help over there.
You see Mr. Caapaaai, aad he'll have the letter for you."
She following day X saw Mr. Causal!, aM he had the letter
written. I t w s t letter- of Introduction to Wt* aalae who was the
hraach laaager of the German branch. Mr. Ford signed i t hissself. X
went along with that. At that tiaa X was not a citisen yet.
X left i a Hay of 3fP. It vas rattier harried. I ooaldnH
wait for a tenantry jeaatt, ae X aade arrs«^»«tB with the steajsboat
agency to have that dene. Owy praatsed that they vould take ears of
the re-«atry parsdt. Ibey said that they vould have eirerything over
-29-
by the ttae "chat X weuM be raady to sow baek* I was only
to stay about four aeefcii, baae*** of ay wife's eaafttclaa. I laft* aaat # w thaw aaft west home. Of course, there
a lot of axeitam-at there. Sft*y .had Jwr le i» : flags draped a l l the place. «> parents w e . aajgwv capwctrill/ ay mother, natur­
ally, and tiiey arranged a golden. Mddlag mm there Just as nicely
m HHf feasibly mania* It eae aaaa, a*fc w the laet tine that X
at that tine when I entered mxmm* msm weren't
the same say ware* mmm mm a feeling of iepeesslsa. aad unrest. I ®aa»t deeorfbe Itf It was Just te the a i r a H around. X could actu­
ally feel the difference. I dl&n't raaUy tew what i t was a l l about,
bet that eeniiti®® «as abata amwarlaaSaaa* I tallied ta some of ay toothers and my father about i t . ifr
didn't wast t® talk maa* about i t . faaj «dd» "Hell , it 'e of these aaetttiaa*. m aan*t iawir what WXX eeme. out of i t . *
My father was a l i t t l e more «e»<«iiid®d about i t , beeauee he
was froa thw old school, l e said, " f e l l , theses a fellow by the name
of Hitler who's trying to get on top, and he's twraiag e-^rything
topsy-tm-vey. I'm afraid that. Urn ecwsfery i s going to the rocks, i f
he gets through with what he wants to do, the country is going to the
bim» *a*tt* abaft i s he trying to dot*
-30 -
Bi said, "lie's taylag to mmk» I M I a yowg god
off ralatlofis nMfe every ©ttoaar couatry. Be oaaaa*t
aartaar villi sjfte^r. Ha Just wattta to do ©royttiiiig
l a v H f . 1% ofsodd ©f i t . 1» e®a*t tain faatiy aaaat i t . laara
are a lot of people mmm&. «ao battaaa in him and f olio-« Ma, no w§
liave to ©a a l i t t lo oarafttL"
Snot was. tbto team* fseXJiig that I fait. It mm last »1»
tayataar olffaraat from mtwa I laft. I stayod m®m for four
At the goldoa nodding cslsbration the. vhole family got
graa*ichildrei:i aad grand* araaaa*i3araa« It vaa aieoi 1*11
format it*
Mr. of tao OaxMa teasaeh was H n m » y y Infm aail that
X ««« going ever tbere, because X iaai&*au a telephone oall from bia
asking i t X oeeied any aaly* ®w aaly ftteatioa that mm opto vaa toe
ratava t r ip , a ® raaaraiBaBa aaa aot aaflsttaly aataallaaae. I ajte i f at oouM oaook tte Beam Germs*. Lloyd aad aee what at
eouM do to aaaura ae a lotusa trla*
l a eeHod m ate* aad mm, * f©w ie a l l
th® *ara*aa** A l l you have ta 4o 1» to aa up ta
tlaaat* oat ta* raaeraetia* vaa aat defteiteXy aatealtaaaft. Is helped aa- ia that reefeet, X dida't mm to do a lot of running arouad. I didn't tmm to ua® ay letter at «11» out tit hmm aoout i t .
•31.
Before 1 left, Mr. lotd 0*16* ,4Xe% you can. go, "but when
you cons bask* ooo ae 4ase4^ft%. «© will tew 80¾®¾!¾ else for
you."
When I got hack,. I aw hia, aad he said, "How, l»d like
you to go bank to the Fort Mjwm I^ihoratory. Shore are two aero fellows
waiklag beak there* What yon ooxftt on end what you see back there X
w i t you to keep to yaaraelf and not aey a word to aiiybody about It.
m are designing a V~8 engine. Ihmt do you know about electricity?"
1 mm* "I think that 1 tow quite a M t about i t . "
Ie said, wl*d XOm to hove you work on the in i t ios ayatan
for this «a0m and the genemters and starters and so forth, a l l the
electrical e^iipsaat for- this ea iae* You work sloag with these two
bays back there*"
I went back, and there was Carl SetaOt* and lay laird who
mm then working on the gs@« work, the teslm snoot of the ?«S. Mr.
Ford hieeslf mm in two or throe Muss a day. m. followed i t through,
seeing what was being done and saying do this and do that, She original
ooceept of the f«8 was hia* aa far as I know, sad Carl Schultr and lay
mm were 6***12&ig M * Sato* tnao.
At f«r a® 1 know, Cboraio Sore»se» knew about the ?-B
developg&nt then* Mr. Ford kept everybody away tarn i t but the three
of us aad ttavjoix. 1 don't tot whether Bdael was aware of this de-
wetoojaant or aot* ie newer stojped ia at the beginning* He esan© in
-32-
later en, aaa finally Sereneem esas la aad P. E. Martin.
Mr. ford mm vitally interested in a one-piece easting of
tha e-ylindsr hloek. It had ta 'ha one piece, definitely. At that tiae
th® caseins pr«w:ticcs vara rather young, aad a lot of developswat had
to ha dona.
that was nhottt AOy of U30 wham X mutt haok that*. 1 work­
ed along en this engine, on the J#titioa Bye**®.. Mr. Ford told aa
vhat he vented. Be vented a distributor raetmbed on the front end of
tbe engine and driven directly off the orashaft. Is said, You'll
probably ma into a lot of oppositlen on that, hut that is vhat I
and that ia vhat is going to go on this engine.'*
We did sons design work m i t . Us thought of hov ve would
do i t . It vas at that tia» a l i t t le difficult, hut we couldn't say
that i t couldn't he done until we had definitely tried i t . we
on. that until October,
0® Ootoher 10, m* ford oaa® M and saM, *J*d like t©
you wam a Cbristams present for Bieal. I don't know vhat to give his
any aore. Could .you sake a oao-tenth-slae Mdel of ay first cart** I said, "l*m sure that that eaa he am."
He said, "Yea, hut I want it to ran.11
I said, "Well, I havenH seen your first oar exeajt for pictures
of •%*.*
Be said, "You haven't! Caae oa to tbe car. I ' l l show i t to
»33»
you." m meat mm to to* wmtmrn. It wee thea in the garage, end
we looked i t mm.
Be said, "Are yea sere that you eaa make one that rueet*
I said, "we'll try a l l ws eaa. the here looks a little
snail* 1 don't knew whether you earn .get gasoline through a eMail gas*
o l i m line i f yeu want It right up to eeale, hut we'll certaiiOy try
le said, "Do ®m%*n
It cane out that the here was a quarter of am lash, and the
stroke was thre«-*ighths of an inch. That's pretty email. A l l the
eteel parts that he had on the first model were to he made of stain­
less steel, on the nodal for Meal* It was <pite an order for a few
months* There was a lot of vork to be done.
Be embed Bay Laird to do the drafting work and the scaling
down. Be wanted him to make aetual drawings with seals dimensions so
that i t would expedite the Job, He wouldn't have to run baek and forth
to the residence, and many parts would have to be remeved to get the
actual stee en them*
lay made, a i l of the irmwtsge, aad 1 sorted making the parte
for It. finally it got to be a l i x t l e too aueh for jamb that l i t t le
shop ewer there with Just one man working on i t , so ws sent some work
over here- to the experimental iteMns Shop, at the lab, .snob as the
stainless eteel anglee afcta* the frame was made of and a lot of these
aafU iparts wbieb tbey ©onld aake §w» bare.
It was a. fallrtlatt Job. It bad a a«U oa the froat end,
a sasa^iied one wMea. wwiait. It baft aa mm^tmm laap ©a tbe
frost e*ee> as* tbat «o»tea* Wo feat aytol** a^Rjan batteries mm
v# for ft ay tba Wmr leady Cospsiy. VO bad apt**** tiros aad* by
tba Fltaataaaaji Costpiy i t .
fita® X mm mmOm. tba car, Mr. Fori eaid sor^tMwi -of hie
f t » t aettues of tba ojur* Be ajaUy % i le a ear that Mm. ford do*
server, a lot of ejaftlt for.* I iiettaetly vm®m®? tbat. le said,
•!*» aba* yoa tba first ejejia* tba* I vaUt. 1 battt i t ia
kitobea, aad Mra. Ford baited ae wit* i * . a » sbeweft i t to ae later
on. Bt didn't aay enytfciwf afeoat tiso f i r s t ride in i t aor amytoteg
'Of tbat aattNtv,
It «—««» elos® to fi&lstsnvjtdae eart i t iodised almost bona*-
lass tbat w@ w©sM get i t dose. Oa Sooestar 23, we ©tarted at six
o*elocfc la tbe mtmdm «od worked straight tbrongb until mm o^loek
C h r i s e s aternlag. 9mm is*** -¾ of i ^ , Ray laird aad nyself. we
•took ayaito. He went © w to tie Sally Jordan &arditt#o^ and get
M®s®lf a es^sg .for on boor. Shan be ona® back, I -went bank over
tea*, feat Secaaoor 23 to mounter 2¾, i t was troaad tbe clonk work*
¥* just took aoAajaje- ens* ia a vbOa -aad erttejaia off.
Oa ®m®*mm Swe Mr. Ford waa tier© wiUi w until tmtm
•*«Mt a* ajgbt. w» mm jvetby oloaa to tbe fHHsb tban. 8» started
•31«*
playing the mouth organ aad did * J i g for m* Ke felt very,
grand. At twelve @»eloek he l e f t . Be ««14, You ' re getting a t e g
okay now. Jaet leave I t tee, eat I ' l l pick 1¾ tip w the mewing.*
At f ive a*a3aan me Baft i t dome.
M g » after ChxletMis X went baa* to work. He e m Sn ami
««14, ®»a* are you doing hasa* 7aa*va worked lang hours. Bow you
go baek home aaft take a week off." X en**, *m$ X lata that X aaat to get baek ta the V-8
X f e e l a l l r i g h t . X rested up o w r the Chrle^a&e hoM*ay»#«
He geld, "Bo, you go aa hoie«w
X said, ®B% X*» etayiag he*t«* He said, ."gea'fa a aaaaheaa aa»*fwa^gua, aren't you? Ball,
stay here i f you aaat *»•* I aaat baek to the V*8 agate and kept on working em that.
She tawjftftam system had taken shape Sa aar aamftn. The dietr l lwtor took shape and got into the drawing stage end to the sake slag*, fie required
a testing f ixture to calibrate the distr ibuter , to calibrate the
speed, and also do e laetr lea i cheeking* we d idn' t have any
yver there whatsoever. We did not have any electric
to drive th is wli'tersttBg ffefc«r®» wbfteh ie a rote blag fixture. The
distributor le aaaaaal to t h i s f ixture , aad i t ' s driven, and the
are deteadasd by a tachometer and the epark edvamoa on the
i i a X .
bia i f we co'tad «et up m electric a»6©r» «e bed •liable e m tban. It was available fro® i
aritaa lay a ataaa esgifie. Bi said tbat be did aot wat asy el^efcric
ia this building even 1&aa»b- direct eurwot aaa mwatSbHa* He didn't
ajtaa ws .may laaaoa for tbat, aaa % 4Saa»t ask for i t .
Be said, *X»11 t e l l ym td»t you can do. You assign a saall
tbat w i l l rua tbe upset tbat you want for tai* calibrating
A &m engine i w ay *a aSfja as *M>QQ r.a.a* aaiaa «eaaa 2,000 r.a«s. Bay to aete a steam engine to rua ap froa to© r . » . a . to
£,<X$ r*»*a* or better i s rather difficult.
Be said, *3Co*i design a steaa eagias tbat «111 give tbat
X started out drawing a* tbe steaa ea#ae» I got away fraa distri-
aid naat back to atamw e^aee* X deeig^d a l i t t l e etas* eagine
with am inch aad a ^Barter bare mid a tea aad % oaaras* stroke. I t aae
about tswaty iaebee long. Xt M i etUl be over in the Mueena, by the
X eeaaaoted i t ay ta art** ay ealibratias aaoMae* Ke
i a getting i t up to 2,to0 r » j f r a a 200 to 2,¼©© r«»«a«. At %,km r.p.nt.
it vaa a l i t t l e erratic. The apaaa aeaftaa't stay oaaatamt} it vealA ebaace.
Ia talking aaaat tbe steam m0m *i«b :¾-. Ford, X told him tbat i t fuact toood pretty good ezov.it la tbe too raagtt of spaed. fie said,
*mm hold i t at that speed and natm the p v n w o© that the speed i^re^ses aligirUy, about a i par aant Increase, under f u l l load,
froa tha speed of under no load condition. That, of course, was a
ptssle at th<s m a i l .
X was working oa i t for a while. Oi .course, X was think­
ing te teres of a f l y h a l l ..governor with the suspensions sa^ndarly
to taat advantage of laoytte, & looked, a t the design and said, "Bo, X don't mink that's tha way you want 1» do i t . Cone along with ae,
and I » H shew you a govaaw t h a t ' l l 4® i t , w
Ha took as ever to Buil&im 13 and shwed ao am Arsaiasrten-
Sims eagles with a Wright governor, fhat governor i s built i n the
flywheel* Xt consists of two woiajft* with an off-eester sitspensiom
fulorum point* «he one wight is ao»**tfoeea forcei the other weight
on tbe long a w i s i n e r t i a force. A s aoaant a load Is put om the
•tana engine t i a i n e r t i a force weight kids® fswwsrd .and opens the valve,
feu can calibrate that go^mor so tbat you cm get a higher spaed under
load than ante no load. When X aay under load, I asan the rated f u l l
If an engine is designed ta develop twenty horsepower, when
you take twenty horsepower froa that engine, your speed vl.il increase
ow-hal f of 1 far tent of tha speed under load. I f the load ia over twenty horsepower, the asaetana, the speed w i l l drop because no governor
w i l l put power om the engta** It just controls the valve.
lie Mid, **» aaka case Site tfel% sad 1% sura tbat yam
can do i t * Keep thie Wrt#Kfe governor i n mind. I ' a going to talk to you Ititfg .oa about ttwst f o r aoaa other ajajlioayon**
We made tba i m a v and, by golly, i t i w t o d , so
aa aeed tbat «fig1l«» ia calibrating this distributor.
Nr. Ford ornate* tbe high taaaios vires f m i tha dietri*
tasfeor to th® aperk plug a l l jaoltei lot p i a o t i w with $mt tba eaae to tbe uparH flags attaaMU Ae a ant ler of fact, be Just aaatod
texa&nels " ^ ^ e oat of tba aide of tbe molded Immtmf and tfrtm nm
apriag ©Hps batwaaa the not teradaal and tbe sp&rlt plug, feaaiaale
are what tba M e l . A bad. I t juet bad ttnaa> bron» springs in. tbere, and tbat* a want ae wanted.
vie tried tbat and bad aoaa of tbaae aoldad. Of course,
tbey would break down dieloetrica31y. Saa plastic bora was only (about
aa inch ia disaster aad tayerod off toward, the rear. She fear vires
at the banning tapered doan to tares, two aad one. Ife # » t eoald
set get Use fdslectric avjaagtia in tiaa ma arial to prtfant tba alactri-
cal brtoMoam.. foe iswremt aaalft j ^ s f»a» .one oomtetor to tbe otber
conductor, Saas# of mmm, caused a*nftrlag.
faat aaa an awful lot of «*£af# but be iaeiirted tbat be wasted
tbat. At tbat tiae, titer® Jew* aeaaa»t any bigb uislectrlc Materials
available aa there are nor. fbere mm am awful l o t of tiae, energy aad
<*;*>»
msK\ tiai would wm Babelite- tubes* Ve weald 'put regular iaaltSam wires*
high team*** attaa* and *eajai the® thru tbsae mTmm* Tbm mm better.
mm f t » t eagiaa a** run mm* «* the 3Puw a>avw Mb-, «8
mde a wooden stand and vat i t *m on i t , 1 ¾ prfe a pulley oc the ba@k
sad aad. rmj i t up to tUe lmmm&M»im Shaft of the shop to got i t
started by bolt drive. First m started the engine froa the line shaft
run by a steam engine. A® the engine started, it would drive the line shaft and the steam engine. ' 1 ¾ shop had a wedem floor, and the whole
building shook when this engine ra&, We got what little load we could
baek to the Mite saafti it rami that m® fin©, 35wt was the beginning
of 1931.
After the f i r s t <wt xaa* m* Ford deaiaad to build up an ©Id garage in bask of the Fort iQwara Ijftoomtory aad test it iu there. Be
had a garage bui l t up, two stalls for ears and om partition for mm
test stand, i l a t t t i n engine up in Item and put an air brake on It. fbat wm jttet two pedals, four feet apart aad on© square fooi, and we
cwwM ealeuiat© versus speed, how much power the engine would put out.
a* -ram it that *ay»
we installed enginfts i n wwiwpid Hpftml A 's , and took tbaa
eat aa the road sad drove thea* It didn't develop as WMOB power then
m it doe* sow. l e didn't know how mash power we would get ©at of it*
Hi had am way of amam***af it.
A nam by the nans of Baaa** mmM wm *Hug. the teet drfviag.
That*s S«Ut®*s brother, tba electrician here, fete f^terson, who
Jnst recently easn back v i m mf and Eddy Malea did so»@ driving.
Of course, lay BeMiager end Jinny Ssdtb drove,
latter oa, to June of 1 9 ¾ i t waa decided to send aa engine
over here, and X wold aouat i t oa the dyneaoaeter. Borenaen was i a
em i t by that tfcet. Bt oaaa ia at tba t i n whan tba b l inder blocks
were supposed to bo oast tows at the Rouge, tba tiooe-pieee cylinder
blocks. Be and Isana Relabel!, did aa awful lo t to aeecBsnlisli the
casting of the aono-oieca cylinder blocks.
We lost am awful lot of ea*tiage oa tbat. 1 can't give you tbe ratio of tbe lost ones to ths good ones, but tbere were an awful lo t of
tbem east before tbey got sens good ones. That wee because of tiae core walls being too tbis and core shifts. Soaa casting did not have proper
meblaing stock. It was quite painful to develop that casting. In <hme, 1931, tbe engine was brought over bare and put on tbe
dynasioafter* f ie dynaffieasters were located at the nortb end of tba Engineering Building up ia tbe awtbenet eoraer. we bad six dynajaoaeters there. Xt was set up ready for the test. Tbe distributor was working off A a camshaft at tbe front of tbe engine.
% tbat tiae, Sdeel, P. E. Martin, Sorenaen, and Sheldrlck were
In on i t . Biieldriok waa auppoaed to have been kept away from over there esaiaetely. those were our orders} keep StielAriek out.
It was ©rougbt over bore end put on tbe dynaaoaeter and i t ran,
-41-
last tbe power output wassH right; i t didn»t ran aaootii. levertbeleee,
fbat*a where tbe developaent wort smarted. At that tiae SUeldrick got
into i t .
Pert of tbe design, vork tben ms turned owe* to the bine
mem wbieb was established dowa here la tbe southeast corner of tbe
building. Ea&ry Nador got in on tbe ebassis design. In fact, be was
over at tbe Fort Myers ijabofatory for a while on tbe cbassls design*
The engine was tben developed over bare along vith wbat we did over
tbere. He were werMog ia two direetioa® tben. The body design was
tons by Jos GaLsmb.
Tbe v-8 engine, wben we put i t on tbe dyneraeter in 1931,
bad the distributor on tbe front, aono*block easting aad single tbreat
carburetor, i t was tbe Detroit Lubricator type. I t bad two of wbat r~ we celled bam doors. That wen ojBtwa an e^ooap3J.sbaent tben to aake
tbis oerbwretor for eigbt cylinders.
In the blue rooa was tbe engine exp@ri«ntal group over in
tbe Bn«loe«riii£ Laboratory. Sbeldrick was In charge of tbat. Bale
Boeder and Elaer Sebubert wotted tbere. Carl Sennits was tben brougbt
over bare later on. Baary Bador was tbere, aad Gene fnrkas was over on
tbe otber side, working on ©bassis. Wat* a about a l l I earn recall of
®*aldriek»s grow©. Day Xettfa caae over later ©a. Start was 1933.
1»ey were working on tba ©agin© between tba dyaaaisaeter and
tbe original design, but we were atiU working over « t tbe Fort tfcars
Ufc, oa the i&mm
*®m esglae rem rough IA 1933-» It was a eoa^ination of
carburatioji, aaalfoldlag and timing, valve timing particularly as
ignition biatag too. Ia a taiga of a new engine you have to
first, a aaonally adjastad Mstrlhuter to adjust tha
to tbe requirewmts of tba engine to tba compression ratio of tbo
aagias. From tbat you calibrate as automatic mm® which follows aa
closely aa poasible the aanosl curve. He did aot have aay curve re*
qpireaeate saatlojala, ao these m^mmmm had to he estOMJshed over
here. We didn't have tbe eeuipaeitt over there to do thia. Theae curves vara finally established here, aad ve calibrated
tha distributor to i t . Sehutbs did seas wer* on the ©aashafb, the valve
tlala*, and Detroit Lubricator cans into it then to do work on the
few*tor. fhey ohanged the aixture ratio on i t . that vas a stogie
huretor for eight cylinders. H» aanifold at that tiae vas aot tha type that as- .have now, or not even the type that ve had later oa for a alasl* carburetor.
We haft the distributor curve adjusted. We tried various nwaiharrn and carburetor aa\$ee1aante* and as finally saoothad the out. As I recall, the first/ reading we got vaa sixty-five
Of course, tho dav lopnmvt work went on. Ia 1932, the first V-8 eaaa out. fhe first cars had engines that were built over at
Hptca* tbe f i m l test war* was a l l ions froa there* It wae all
eeatraliieA ®mm& tot a>ani Moratory*
It went into pro&aation* aad we s t i l l kept oa working over
tt»» m tbe ignition tyatas* ©»re waa a lot of mm to be dose to
eaootb out <2» *oagb spots* In 1933 sloag ease tbe beak holiday. Of course, tbe whole
plant oao closed torn* Bwiisfbady was seat bam* Sba next day I got a cat! fro® Mr* <k*a?aall* 1» told ae to cosaa oat* tfcat Mr* ford
to see aa,
1 come oat, aaa be aaaa't bere# 1 wsAtod for bia, ©ad be i a . Of course, be looked quite disturbed* Kc sold, tou atafce
yoM-telf bay around bare* 1*11 be aeeiiag you from tiae 1» tiae.
Where ia tbie otbar fellow wbo used to work vStb you over there?"
I said, "He's boas."
off.
We Mm wbat we bad to do oa toe dtstrtlator. fbe two of us
wotted over bore ia tba asehine ilaa> Firs t we designed an a s s ^ l y
fixture for e^soablifig the high tern Urn wiring harness for pi-oduction,
aa built i t ourselves and tamed it ©war to production at tbe Bouge
More aad HOT© people case oa back and started to eat back
iaao operation agate oat bare* One day taaa» be told met to go into
to* blue mm end. mm along aftta the hoys in m0m throv^ii. B» wanted us to to work out a awems by vhleh
tbt m^m ©am be started by either the eltttefa pedal or the aaatiU pedal to do emay «Ma the loot eaiteiu ve worked om that a
Is the middle of 1933, Sd Huff died. He was i n
Moratory mm there. About a month l a t e r Mr* Ford
« # "low long hav* yam been with the CoB$**ay newt *
I tala M a * Be s a i d , **aat*s long enough, fern take mmt there at
the Electrical Lafeoratoi? where Bd Huff wee." I as® quite elated about It was1 teaUy the turning
point as far as getting baek into eaglmeering* Iham I got ia. there,
strictly eorking for Bd Huff
t h i s ambaaeti'
and i d Buff 's
system, Model A batteries, a l l
plus Mr. Ford's pereona]
. Thame eae aattt involved ia that, There was another nan
there vith Btaamsi It might have been fionevan. These two mem worked
on that radio bseaea. That was before I got into the electrical end.
It mas ateeady pretty much worked out by that tlaa* lavhamdJgr, at
ttam% i t mm ft l i t t l a d i f f H w l t to s tart the ywevtr ewaaaiaaaiaa,
because f t seemed tlmt- feftfere taaa things ware rather fUgbty, and
there w a lot of fMataaa between Saal&riafc mA Huff. Huff Just
didn't ears for BljelaricK, aad a e l f l r i e k eoalaaH show M a faea i n
the e%eatrtaal Lab at a l l -
X beard l a t e r no/ X ted to do the electrical dswlopwat
oa the V-8 -toataad of aaviag ta» K e e t s i o a l Oepirtamiit carry -out 1**
iegalonwttt* Mr* tad aniafantly .e»»©ael»d Huff to develop this
Ignition system and drive the- distributor off tbe front end. Huff
eald that i t eaaUaH be dome aad that mmm mm m mm b e a r i n g
vitb i t . If anybody knew Mr. Ford, once be bad am idea i a his mind
he « M i to see i t ttoemab* That was p l i a b l y the reason why he mat
i t owar there? to teat i t away froa. then altogether. That was hie
tmm& of putting things done. I f mm aanMa't d© i t , tbe other on®
wauIA. with a* being new, i t jest ha»®»d to cone along ay way.
i t -was ratter difficult to straighten out th is feeling that
l i s t e d iwwr isaae heta»an ttoe beys that wire i n t*a*a and the reet
of eagtnaarSiig. Of course, Sterna and Or©*® were l a there a long tine
before I got with the Coagaay* ®tey mm mmm®€ i n the eoapany and
mm aaeallamt people. As a neweoaer aaafag i n tamaa* I had to work
tyaiyiaaiid.v'is than I aaiAlaai what had to be done froa aav
on. when s tart ing a new system it-mm to be token rery easy i s order
•not to get them ruff led va, but i t worked eat a m r i g h t . %a got along
. 4 6 -
very aleoly*
a lot of tha **** ftoet *a d i d mm for the f o r i Motor
Ooajany* euch oa ta* «l«oterto«i vot* for eatoaoailae, also our toot e^tlpowt that waa aaaaavaa* at had to mm f t ourselves. Mr*
faal did aot Hat us to- bay e ^ f o a a t oa. tba outside, l i e opinion
vaa that i f we aaka i t oar******, vo Jtwr what i n t o i t tick, as he
would say. Xt vas aaftafttaly aore explosive, but. i t vas quit« am
i ^ t i e a l J r mx of tat ooajtipoast whtofe vas. In there and that mm avttt up lobar em was b u i l t rlgfct to that®,
-1» thsae two oafrtJatoro m&m aad 0**iaa« Tbey contributad, aa awful
lat to- i t beoause of t h e i r tmrn^lmm, their
Stoat' W«S voaaayfal. B**o s t i l l alia*. Gredue i s
It 4Saa«t oaa* aay dlf^wsaoe what yam «aa* Sfedasj he d id i t . If i t
vaa to ttme a piano or aake a piece of eiectrieta e^utpaat or' to
OJI a steaa eagias* i t didn't ante any dJffereae®, jtady. did i t . We
always called mm tody. Mr. Ford tew M a very elooalgr, end be
X «aaa t t too moh in eontaet with mmm at that tiae
of th is radio worJt that he was oanqriag m* a* was working ©lesely with
Mr* CaayotiUU Wmm was Just In t i e ^ , as f a r as J WIG mmmmm€* I s
had mrn^mm to do and ho d i d i t . He worked sort of iM®p©ade»tly.
1¾©¾¾ nw a variety of work that vent throygh tbere at tbat tiass. Aa a® vent along* ibis feeliag betMesa Sisaldrlck aad
aaalifelafc fait that this particular daptrtaant w supposed to be under bia. Snore vie never anybody tbat could do aaytbiog about i t aaeept Mr. fort, and be just didn't fool tbat i t should be under
Bbeldrick and, therefore be separated i t . Hevertheleaa, the fooling grow. a* aoro an iaieyontat dopartaoat geportiag directly to Mr.
Ford.
Mr* Martita and 8r» Isorease® asad to eoao l a tbara abeneipar thej- bad aoaw problems or aaaatMa*: to discuss, l a oat around a table aad talked about things- ffbeo tbey bad trouble down at tbe
production lino and aa eoald belp tbam* ae aade eoae teste for then bore sad filtered tbe saforaoMon aaoftu It aaa u&ixily eleetrioal verb, bat ooae of i t aaa ©a tha mm$» ia the aaobanioftl l i a s .
«aa ipaaiwetei* tbea aero aaier aaa*a*iak* Any iaforan* tion that as bad to «at froa dyaaaoaators MI bad to filter tbroagb aaaMrisfe, and ia aaay eases ae didn't get what ao wanted because of this aatafonlan.
On mm €,. 193¼, Mr* Ford eaae in and said that we bad dome aalta a b i t of work oa tbe oagiaeo aov aad, *I want you to take over mm mmmmm*m Shay aero under thmUgimtt, m there was another
pimch at aa* aaotbor poiat of friotioa*
«A8»
We only bud mm mm to «f«?*te tiia dynSMMters at thst tins, sad this aaa's mm was Bob Site*. He did a U of the engine
testing, and Mr. Iw* aw t» It that wbat laforaaWon be received
was tbe wmot infowattoa. Somehow or ether Mr. Ford alvayv fe l t
tbat eoae people didn't give hin tbe true iaforaaticm, so be neat
to the nam tHawelf and found out. He got firsthand information
instead of what bad been filtered through a lot of nam that possibly
bad i t distorted, t l e f t 1»»» whether aw* people did i t or not,
but be apparently bed tbat feeling.
We took over tbe ebwavwriawe* end tbat stirred up mm
mm drtaihle and amtsgoniasi. 3 was 1» the middle. A few days later
Mr. Martin, Hr. Soreasen, Mr. Wibel and Mr. Crewforci eoae in. Appar­
ently Mr. Ford bad talked to them at tbe lunch table. They said,
ym'm going ta take over <ena ay»WeMrtei»* so le t ' s aake this thing up theta* I f you need «eae aore help* c a l l for tt* let*a sate*
pyaemeter Bepertaeat out of i t . We feel tbat one asm can't t-Mr, thing a l l by bftwalf* Tbere ere sin ^mmmtmm up
there. l#t*» build tba thing m*m
I felt good ajbw* tbat. At least big people were in on i t
i a did build 1 ¾ ® djwejaoaater group up a l i t t l e nore. It
waa a group, not a eeetlom. We got. none procedures started oa hw to
teat tbe ©agimee and bow to present the reports, i n otber words,
lafartial fOporta «• " E m ta the test; this is the way i t was tested*
hsrs are the taaaltai* — regardlesB of vbioh way i t looked. Scsaebo&y
hid to pick i t up trm taa*9 Md the devi^ipanb vow*, net is
8traigSitforvard infoaatt&on which is always seeded ia engineering,
is no use fooling £mybo% oa that*
X gained personal contact with Mr. Ford and Ideal. Mr. Sdsel
caae- fa , and he was very iatwested i a tba engines, the perform*
of the engines, and wasted information ease in a while. Ve had
he wanted ready for U % m be caae late the picture at that
ties. % un t i l that tiae he hadnH bean i n the picture very ansa.
The first tiae that ve got in contact with Wml waa during
the •fbHrty Years of Frogfww* shew ia Sew fork in m% It waa at
the Port of -Authority Building;. Tm Ford Motor Coapany put oa a show,
this waa a bract?, new butliiag, and the Ford Mote* Company was 19» first
to put oa a show ia i t . 3 » vendor® and outliers of Ford Motor Coa-
Mr. Ford's personal heloagiags were also
m mmmt imam mm «awo« 3a* anginal buttling was- sot
hut a l l Wm oavjaaomt was taken oat of the original Bagley Avenue Shop,
mm m& aot up Sa a replica of tbe latflttag, iuciadiitg tbs first
I the f i r s t engine wMoh he built , m i e l e g a M aa to to** that
to Sew for* for too show.
m hunt the show up and get f t wwing. 10 get g»ft be wanted ae to stay right there, X was tmm from
uetil the Mddle of January. X r e n t e r tbat w
g*@Q?fil@ brought back. Tbs show V M eioaoft ewey the
la?* Idsel Fori, ctasae tai there with Mr. Heniy ford before
M M nfonei aad looked i t Toe* was tba f i r s t Mae X ant Nr. Meet Ford. They were very pleaded at how we bed tbe show
•irrs^ed- « i had tae B&gley Av me- Shers off iii a sap&rste room right
ia tbe aid(Ua; and a r a n i the «s*ejaa> we had m the The
a l l Ford cars, the old vlnt&p* ears except one.
It wn» em old artMsr. It wee made im fcaeeai, X beliew,
i . Xt bad two big steam cylinders; ee*UU&Sag i s the
were regular wagon wheels. In otber words, jost
Hit© an old wagon and there waa the cor* It bee a
boiler en i t . mm mm mm ©my mm that wasn't * fort 0»,. but be i t down tbe*®. m Just wonted to shew a steats oar eeasarod to
oa mm 1mm ftysemttar work, Edsel ka#t cesdng i n
< M .* laMla —a waiifetws? iafor^.tioaa about the emdM. haw w* 1 wan fount* and wbat be thought should be dona, «1*
gtm. 1® inrfiaVt say, "Sow we aaaa to do tkla." Be would ssy» "It would be nice i f we could do this. It would be ale®' i f m oouJld
ebaage this to that," 5a womlA nevw be d i r e c t , » « 0 1 ? give so order. m course, tbe reason for that probably was that be- tassw tbot Ms father was doing a l l the directing up bore.
M O T I Was interested i n engine designing* sot be followed
i t very elosely. I felt that be laaar toot i f be fid soy aayfMag, be
tesw was* be s t i l l wasn't the fSaa* authority. Later m tfcis aade i t s e l f aore team a l l around, X felt at tbat tlaa tbat there were only
two vaysi e i ther be f e l t tbat be d i d n ' t bave eaougb experience, o r be
fait tbat eoaabody also was giving, orders aad be didn't want to
at took over the ^asamter% wo got aore wltb Mr. Ford. Be used to ease i n i n the
eight o'clock aad say, "Lot's go over to the chapel."
v i t a l l y interested i n these aa&oran* l a asked oaoe in a wails want we
eoald do to help t r a i n the bays over tbere, to give
We'd e i t 9 « i n the Caaaai on tbe 3a*tiaa»l side, and be would
aoaat oat yowgatoro aad say, "bow a**Va a atee bay. ®ere»a one tbat
needs a l i t t l a training! there's • U t t l a trouble at bona. I t ' s aot tiie
boy tbat*s to blaaaj i t v o tbe paronte tbat are to tOaas. We bare t o
•5®»
ata what m eaa, do to get the boy ©at of 1«« habits, tt iftMstewr habits
aa had* Mr* f o r i fisted the ohildsaa out by a m . He knew ewery one
of taaa*
Be wee thinking then of trying to help these heps In aotae
way* *• ^** talhlBg about a progwi uaoer abieb we eoala bring those
bay* 1» tbe shops, lab a boy go oat attft the aen, aad train nla by
letting M& see what was being done, and let MM do as well as he can.
He said, 1feJlf just picture yo»s@lf. You've ©one through
m apprenticeship, Saab'a what we would like to do hero to brain our
people like thai* Q%m thea am apprenticeship tiae, then try than R ^ ^M f l ^¾¾¾¾ fc ^ t!!* 3¾^¾ ^
It happened oalt* of tea that vc vent to the Chapel in the
aaauinaa* Sou never knew when he would aoae in, what he *®Ht@fi and abaaa «oa would be aaxt* l e aight aaat ia ana soy, "£at*a g© for a
trip eat to &Uaa**
We'd unp & the oar, and on the way out there you aight be
tUeeuseing different things. Qm mm we were discussing gasoline fuel
iajeebtoa* aad eow^isg eaaa out of i t* We aade fuel iajeetor puape
aaa fuel tnjeebw aaiala* at&ea oaa be piawiaaaaV but he wasted to design
im own sad sake tfaaa* We did!
Sheee coiitactu were froa day to day* e ^ t i n e s tw% three and
four tinea, a day* Yen never knew when he would come in and what he
would bare on. hit. alaa*
-53-
Ho vould talk about a progpaa. la would never specifIcally
tatt you, "to are aaaas to Ao ta4®.w loa were supposed to pick i t
up tram the conversation sat than aj» aaa d© i t . If you vest i a the
wrong diraatSea, be would l e t you taov ovaataaUy* i e would, aay,
"•Tbat Isn't whet we had i a aaa*.* You vouia .feel out again aad see
whteh way y§» vere supposed to go. feu bad to adapt yourself to Me
way of thinking, fern. bad. to toad teoMad tbe lines, i t waa awful
teri at 1 ¾ * l*glo*Jaa» aat after you got oaojetfateft witb hla you could
just about oae how hia mind worked. I do**t aeaa to aay tbat aayhody
ever kaow what be -was thinMag about. Vmm wasn't anybody
that ever kaow what he waa tbiaklng about directly.
a* 1ft* «* «ot ftfto mtmm&m heater developaoat
aaae thea, and aaa* trouble waa experienced with
ao on. That was the first tiae tbat I got in
with Mr. loaaett.
Ve hod difficulty with a heater. Bs called as and aaid that
Mr. ford hat drive® ttas* oar with a heater aad was pretty nearly petsoaad.
Ve brought the ear in bare aad we couldn't find aay leaks la it at am.
Baaattt was interested la getting hot water heaters m the ears froa a
safety staasdpeiat, «s he olaa**d.
I eoataoM Mr. ford on this leakage. I said that I was sorry
that tiiis thing happened to M a . i s aaid, *aa*t do you aaamf Ve didn't
a leaky heater on the ear.*
«5*»
I MSA, *I a*ev» aa ta* tea ««r bate* aad we eo»ia&«t find any leaks on i t . lir. Bennett gbsSa* 'that put ware pretty nearly
polsonsd i a t»® oas\w
l e sa id , aot aa*" Be tiaraed axaaaA and walked away*
1 aoatacted Mr* Bsasett #qftfa and told him tbat X bad 1%¾!?**
vatis Mr* fata* l a aaSA, "ton bad me business ta talk, to fir. f o r d . I
told ym. abat vaa wrong with that as****.* & a t was i t . we couldn't
ftaft aaytbiai wrong v i t b tat boater*
.Bennett cot into sagtiiaoring and assign, directly and indirect-
aar* taroagb e«htr aaaa]««
Oas dey we were tlttS«g 1 » Mr. Ford aboot baatora. He ©aid,
«Ibnt do yea ttHak ataa* the bot wstsr beater? ®
I so ld , "^11, I tUtak tbat there's a definite place for one.
I tbiak i t ahould bo loft aa to tbe aaatta* If tbey aaat a bot air
tbsm aa/ vaa% a a a i i f aa don't, soasbely ia going to s e n tbea oao. Sears and Rosbucli i s golag to se l l i t } liontgoaary Hard is going t o sell i t . Ve loo* that sate* If aa baa?® i t ber% we bave i t available.
i s said, "Well, i f .yarn think a bot water beater baa a place .ia a ear* i U r tgbt . Baavt soae work oa i t . w
Vs started out aatwfag sasplos from various m^Umm tbroagb
tba Purchasing Departsierit. we'd tatt tbe 'Pmbasing fiapartaemt* "Mow wa want esaplos o f boaters. It- *aa*t ear* vbere you get tbea froa.
• Send tiaaj la here for tests so the* ws mm eataaaaaa what ws want
and whet ws aaai«*
Sample© mm sent 1» froa tha Eton MtBaJaaftartag Cea»aBy»
from Idaho?- and Baa»Mk> tad thea one eaas la fast and tartan* fro®
a l & I Sehomtosy f4am Brooklyn, lew Sank* It was followed a day
later ay a visit froa a Say HetoUtt and a Mr, Alflaaa*. tony MaioHu
is an a*te*sisy hero in torn, ant $ar« Alflata is tho owner of tha B a A
Say aaaaaiaa how the taat was earning along. He Just had had th®
I told them that wa hadn't aaatfaaai the test yst, hut that
we wouM let thea know through the Pavanaslag Septrlaamb what the results
mm. they taaiaaat that their tost aa aaaaaoaai first, ttsy said,
*ea»ia raafty amd ia tho pfaaaaa of tooling for- this heater, so i f there
is a possibility that we aaaU nake the heater for the ford Motor Cosa-
MM», 'we wmild haws to intense our tealtof.*
A fav daye later Mr. laueoH called .sad Inquired shout this
aaytlaalar heater, as were: wondering how he got into it. Is wm vitally
interested, l e aatt that he had. mm ins tailed ta Me oar and had triad
it, and it worked beautifully* *Sae laataUatlaa is flue., and etarytmiag.
is Just iaek eoup,* he said.
.56.
He net these results to ton Purchasing I pariisant vtta the itlon that the Stem would be tbe best inetallatioB. It was
up to thaat to work out too prices sa l ths orrangwaciute with too stein*
Smotnreri «0 nod nothing to do with that. «he» Purchase got the iriformiiott on the Stat* tbay appar-
ently wm applying already tor the I I I laboratory fteatara. fbay
wanted to give orders to the E & A laboratory beaters. We dlda't agree
to that. We said that as far as we ware concerned the Stoa beater was
tbe beat. I f that didn't f i t In priee-vise that wee a different story.
the S a A Laboratories was next to It, and tbe Eton was i n between. We
«Saat3y dsoidad to buy the Iton .beater.
Purchasing. Bay want after our offiee to get this tiling lined up. I
W&ste that th* ©rigisel iaAtt*#t of Bennett ia th® hot. water beater waa l oaptod- by bis interest ia E « A beater in tbe bagiiming.
fa* mm beater waa adapted msA put on the oar and functioned
pretty good. It waaa*t the ultlmte i'a beaters., but i t waa a good heater, inateJ^ttoii-wiee aad pef^»aiE»«^s®.
•If*
Later on, UAmW&m cam bank to 119 through oar 6 M m »
that tbey couldn't mU enough tost water heaters. Thay wondered i f
the public didn't take to hot note? haatew. I t waa turned around
tbat tiis public ettfe't aaat my hot water heaters} they wanted hot
e*ff netttey»»
did a l i t t l e thanking. i » found, tbat the £ & A Laboratories
sold their beaters to our dealers at a aueh .higher price thaa to other
places l i t e Hoatgoaexy Ward, so they uaderaold us? therefore, oar hot
water beater didn't s e l l .
After we fata* out, we told the hummtm SepartaiBt about i t*
This thing filtered mm, hut aoa wmfa was done about it* I don't know
i f Hr* ford kaew ahout mm or aot. I didn't t e l l bis about i t . 1
thought that i f tbe iBfonoation weat trough, he'd bear about i t anyway.
Wa bad aade tbe tests and we submitted tbe results. Pure-baaing i s supposed
to tab® the part mamMm to price, but listen to engineering. So Pur*
chasing finally decided to buy tba ttoa, and that was that.
the: tollovim year mio l lo end ;,lf i-^ro e m a